Tom Darden of Industrial Heat Comments on E-Cat, Test — Has Had ‘Several High Level Conversations’

An article has been posted on the Triangle Business Journal in which Lauren Ohnsesorge talks with Tom Darden, Chairman of Industrial Heat LLC, and CEO of Cherokee Industrial Partners (both of Raleigh, North Carolina) about E-Cat technology and the recent test report that was just published.

Darden states that his main concern with this technology is to reduce air pollution. Darden states that he is not in it for the money:

“I’m serious — it’s about air pollution and coal . . . Our company is called Industrial Heat. Our job is to make industrial heat and industrial heat is made by coal… We don’t think any energy should be made by coal, so that’s why I’m doing this. This could be a way to eliminate the use of coal.”

Darden says he calls the report “promising”, and that they will continue to work on developing the technology. When questioned about the allegedly shady background (a charge raised by some critics) of Andrea Rossi, Darden states, “I don’t care who gets there first, how it happens . . . I just want to see it happen.”

Significantly, Darden takes ownership of the E-Cat, saying that “We built the reactor and shipped it over to Switzerland.” (emphasis added — good point, Ged)

The article also mentions that Darden says he has had ‘several high level conversations’ about the technology, including with Chinese officials on a recent trip to China.

This is the first we have heard from anyone from inside Industrial Heat (except for Andrea Rossi) for many months, so although there’s not much information here, it’s a significant statement. I expect that Darden and his associates will be getting a lot of information since the report was published, and it sounds like Darden has high hopes for the E-Cat.

The fact that he has been having high level conversations with people outside of China, I think is very significant. Probably those with whom he has spoken will be paying close attention to the new report, and if they are in high positions could already have specialists analyzing what was reported by the E-Cat testing team.

  • Bernie777

    I am sorry but he seems just a bit detached from what is going on around him.

    • Josh G

      Probably doesn’t want to come off as a nut-job true-believer evangelist but rather as a cautious and level-headed businessman on a mission to improve the environment and make a ton of cash doing it.

    • Ophelia Rump

      He has people who do that for him.

      • Bernie777

        Sorry, but it is just hard for me to believe this man is running the show.“We built the reactor, but we shipped it over to Switzerland,”

  • Ged

    So he’s finally said it. IH built the new reactor design, raised 11 million for the e-cat, will continue to develop it, and has been in talks with at least China about this (consider their air pollution problem). We now know his motivations. He still sounds quite reserved in this release (as investors tend to be), but he knows what’s going on behind the scenes, and is confident enough to keep pursuing it and market it in high level talks. That says just as much as the report.

    • blanco69

      I get a bit nervous when a guy who specialises in bringing investors and projects together says he isn’t in it for the money. It’s not a crime to be motivated by profit. However a completely altruistic IH would have open scourced the ecat by now if they weren’t in it for the money. Step out patent lawyers and step in Tom’s coal free dream!

      • I’m not so afraid, like many entrepreneur he is there for the fun, but sucess and money is the final judge.
        it will work, and make money, enough for him to be froud of it.
        I was surpised to find that many entrepreneur unlike many economic rent owner, are ther for the fun, the good, and the pride to make money.

        don’t be afraid, they don’t want to fail or to lose money. this is what differentiate them from dictators or priests.

        • bitplayer

          As a general rule, if you want to do a lot of good, you have to use a lot of money. And if you end up doing a lot of good, it will be associated with a lot of money. How much you draw out for yourself is separate matter.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I suspect he has more money then time to spend it already.
          Like you said, this is what brings him pleasure.
          At some point the money is just a way of keeping score.

          • yes, a score, but not an excuse to sell you soul

          • it make me think of Xavier Niel…
            He love to disrupt market, and now attack… university!

          • Donk970

            I think you’re right about that. I also think that he knows he has only a small window of opportunity to make a profit before everybody and his pet monkey figure out umpty bazilion ways to make LENR work. Once the political and academic barriers to LENR research come down and the real research begins it will turn out that there are many paths to LENR goodness.

        • Omega Z

          I’ve always said the best way to make money is by helping people.
          You can become Rich & feel good about it at the same time.

      • mcloki

        PR is a wonderful thing. Don’t get fished in. Why look like a greedy douchebag of a company when you can look like a saviour. When that pretty girl asks you why you invested in IH are you going to say to her “I did it for the money” or are you going to say “You know I’ve always been concerned with the type of planet I’m going to be leaving my kids. If I’m lucky enough to have them”.

      • Omega Z

        Tom works both sides of the isle.
        He has major investments in energy.
        Just prior to hooking up with Rossi, He & his family tried to buy out the remaining shares of a Natural gas company. Something in the range of 12 Billion dollars.

        Everyone has 2 sides. Positive or Negative as it may be.
        he he he. Bet those aren’t words you want to hear ever again…

  • Gerard McEk

    I think I would be a bit more enthusiastic if I were Darden. I would be very surprised if wouldn’t have had these ‘conversations’ .

    • Donk970

      How a guy like Darden acts in public has little to do with what he says and does in private.

  • catfish

    a drop in replacement for coal furnaces. this is a big deal.

    • mcloki

      A huge deal. It may be the low hanging fruit but It would make a dramatic change. I eagerly await the first news of a test refurbishment of a coal plant.

  • kabel

    nice. so they want to clean up smog in Beijing, make a good name for E-cat and then, you know, conquer the world. 🙂

    it’s sound like a good plan to me.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, probably he knows that there would be no opposition of ECat in China. The gov, uninfluenced by big oil or western banks will readily support the new tech.

      • bitplayer

        Maritime implications, too.

      • robyn wyrick

        I don’t imagine that there would be “no opposition of ECat in China” — they have sunk hundreds of billions into Coal, they have huge populations employed in those industries, and they have people who have gotten very rich doing do.

        However, I certainly hope your overall point is correct, that whatever opposition there is would not be insurmountable. 🙂

        • BroKeeper

          Hope its not sunk into cleaning coal.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          China is not the west. They have immense problems with pollution and more coal power plants simply won’t do, though they need more electrical power the way they grow. Without green power the pollution will be unmanageable and economic growth could come to a halt.

          In China, if the highest level in government says something needs to be done, it will be done. If that means a million or more Chinese have to move or are fired, so be it. It is not a democracy such as in the west. If a business is opposed then the business people behind it get thrown in jail.

          Introducing the e-cat in China is very smart, because:
          – Government support
          – You solve an immense problem for the Chinese
          – No opposition from energy lobby’s
          – No patent office problems
          – The Chinese are great at manufacturing cheap and fast
          – The West cannot ignore or delay their own acceptance of the e-cat because that would give the Chinese a big economic advantage

          • Daniel Maris

            Yep they have a growing middle class who will become a political threat if the government doesn’t clean up the life-threatening air in its big cities.

        • Donk970

          Any comunist country like China functions in many ways like a single large corporation. Within that context the cost of energy is the only thing that matters, there is no coal company trying to protect its profits there is just China trying to increase profits by finding the cheapest, least harmful way to produce more energy. China will run with this and at some point we in the West will wake up and realize that China now owns the world.

    • Daniel Maris

      It’s also a good tactic. Make clear this is a green technology and a very different outfit from the oil companies. That will neutralise some of the attempts to strangle the technology at birth.

  • NO ! to switzerland… pinch me, it is a daydream

    • ok, yes the past test in lugano, end of the dream… I don’t sleep enough, guess why…

    • Bernie777

      Right, that is what I mean about Darden being a little detached “We built the reactor, but we shipped it over to Switzerland,”

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Sounds like a quotation picked up from the middle of s sentence. Probably he said that although they built the reactor, they didn’t test it themselves but shipped to Switzerland.
        I agree, though, that the tone of the interview is almost unnaturally calm. Hard to say how it’s Darden and how much the media person (mediator?)

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Sorry meant to say: “ MUCH it’s Darden and..”

        • Bernie777

          Pls read article, it was not “picked up from the middle of s sentence”

          • Pekka Janhunen

            I meat that maybe Lauren Ohnesorge had picked it up from Darden’s spoken sentences. Journalists typically must shorten the text which sometimes leads to this kind of strange expressions. I don’t know, just speculating.

  • Ged

    That’s what that means, actually, in such speak. Negotiation phase, probably about funding and resources and time frames (I.e. high level conversations, which are technical ”get it done” details before full resolution of negotiations). Tis better than you think, probably!

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I thing this is the steak in the heard of skeptics suggesting that Rossi managed to fake these cientists: “Significantly, Darden takes ownership of the E-Cat, saying that “We built the reactor and shipped it over to Switzerland.” (emphasis added — good point, Ged)”

    Criticisms about the previous third party test leaned heavily on two things:

    1 – The test was held at Rossi’s facility. This was not. The testers were in control of the test environment.

    2 – The test device was too closely controlled by Rossi. This was not. It was built by IH, not Rossi, and it was under the continual control of the testers.

    • BroKeeper

      robyn, did you mean ‘the stake in the heart of skeptics’? Otherwise, inferring the skeptics will have a frenzy over a juicy steak news? Just clarifying.

      • Robyn Wyrick

        Heh, “heart”. Thx

  • Daniel Maris

    Excellent news! – nothing completely spectacular has happened yet but all the news has been good this week and this caps it off nicely. I was concerned we hadn’t heard from IH. Now we have. I hope we hear a lot more in coming weeks.

  • Daniel Maris

    I don’t think it’s weak at all.

  • Ophelia Rump

    To some degree these people seem to operate above and outside the usual constraints of nations and business. The world changes upon single words whispered in marble halls. A conversation with certain people is forever outside the reach of most of us, and may carry profound impact we could not even begin to appreciate the gravity of.

    I would not discount his hushed understatement. This is not a man who needs to shout.

    • winebuff67

      He doesnt need to shout it from the mountaintop. This tech is so far ahead there is no competition. I did notice he only talked about coal but this will have a devestating impact on oil also just not immediately.

  • Heath

    In this article he seems to be downplaying the device and the latest test (“promising”), which I would be too if I was in possession of a reactor with an energy output of this magnitude and did not yet have a patent on it. Notice that he maintains (as he’s said before) that this is merely geared for reducing coal pollution and the lack of power in 3rd world nations when all of us know that this is so much more. No threat to the oligarchy here. He really is measured in his response and is being very conservative. Probably a smart move. I am at least glad we heard SOMETHING from him.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      Rossi said many months ago it would be incremental change when his technology gets adopted. I think their game plan is to definitely downplay the ramifications to the financial system and vested interests. I also agree that is a wise stance, at least at this juncture.

  • Zavod

    It’s nice to see some development in this E-cat event. I hope the guard dogs at Arxiv lighten up and let the report be published. Does it help to have someone sponsor a paper there? How does that work?

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Weird. The previous report was published at arxiv, so why not this one?

      • Sanjeev

        Borg adapt quickly.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          That’s a good one.

          Still laughing 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer
          • curious

            Yes it could be that simple, and this raises a problem: induction heaters operate at high frequency -more than 20KHz- which the PCE-830 cannot measure accurately. You could feed the high frequency to a resistor too.

            Frankly, I don’t think this is the case because the meter connected to the mains would still measure properly, but I miss data from a high frequency oscilloscope.

            And yes: before it was the DC, now the high frequency,…

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            yes I seen discussions about high frequenceies before and usually at some point someone that seams knowledgable in electornics chimes in and say it is impossible to push kW without notice at high frequencies. Let’s ask for a good debunk or confirmation of this issue this time with good references.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You don’t need kW – you are just heating 0.15mm of a few particles (much less than 1g in this case) – that is the beauty, it is extremely efficient heating

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            They measure heat in and heat out if there is not a goatguy tarnsparancy issue the heater must push kW in input that is not seen by the PCE in order to explain the heat output in case of fraud or mistake. But if you want to replicate Rossi I guess that you are on the right track, this also maybe explains why he might need a TRIAC and most certainly why he needs AC.

          • Bob Greenyer

            TRIAC – and AC – just the ticket for this. 3 phase gives him more pulses – keeping the reactants in the “hot zone” they don’t all melt as it is a surface heating effect – but if they do – probably does not matter with the cell geometry – the intense heating will sort it out me thinks.

          • LCD

            Bob I know that plenty of people have tried to replicate Rossi unsuccessfully even though I don’t know to what extent. Does this test tell you guys anything new that you can try?

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have read the first 3 pages (up to the Amps), the conclusion, looked at 3 images and seen the isotopic change data – and with my experience over the last two years (and prior knowledge) – the above seemed to be the only explanation for the look of the images, data and the shape of the reactor.

            If Rossi has already explained in a patent, what I have conjectured in the past 12 hours, he has his patent. The report shows the effect is real and has utility and if “persons knowledgeable in the art” ie MFMP or similar can replicate – they should grant him the patent.

            At least he has said that the Li7>Li6 was put into a patent before handing this reactor over – this is critical, this reaction is safe and has utility – other variants may produce ionising radiation or radioactive waste – and may produce more power also – but the main point is this is safe and trivial and has utility.

            Today I will read the rest of the paper.

          • LookMoo

            At least you read it.. most critics have no invested the about 3 hours i takes.

          • Bob Greenyer

            These guys can supply furnace wire that works up to 1400ºC – as high as it needs to go,


            CrFeAl HT 1400 °C element-temperature

            thermo-couple was possibly to dial back heater coil current to maintain temperature below 1400ºC. Self sustain mode might be a small current to maintain magnetic field.

          • Ged

            Doing a control run and measuring from the mains makes this worry moot. These guys were incredibly thorough.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The reactor basically looks like the photo on the induction heater site

          • LuFong

            From a website selling induction heaters (previous comment disappeared, removed link):

            “power frequency induction heating heat treatment used in the current
            frequency of 50 to 60 Hz, the depth of the heating layer is 10 to 15 mm,
            can be used for the surface hardening of large workpieces.”

            This works nicely with the E-Cat body radius (10mm)….

          • Ged

            That isn’t kHz, and well within the harmonic scopes. Induction heaters don’t break the second law of thermal dynamics or change isotopes.

            That said, it may explain the type of heating needed, except Nat gas has been used as the heat source instead, supposedly.

          • LuFong

            “except Nat gas has been used as the heat source instead, supposedly.”

            Which Rossi has since put on the back burner (pun intended)…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Because, according to stoyan, that would need a beta- source to create rydberg H – except… if there was coils on the outside and a central core for gas to go through. This appears to be a better safer design

          • Bob Greenyer

            According to stoyan, Nat Gas variant would have a beta- emmiter in to create rydberg H – this has possible RF harmonics from the signal chopping which would also create rydberg H but without detectable ionising radiation. The Hotter cat would use D as neutron donors (speculated by a vortex member) this would yield far higher cop – but would never pass safety for domestic use as more ionising radiation.

          • Ged

            Hadn’t heard that before for the Nat gas, but fits the emerging theory of operation we have here. Fascinating.

          • Ged

            Remember the scientists did a control run of the reactor with only the fuel missing, no excess heat. They aren’t that dumb; and power has to come from somewhere and flow to somewhere: you don’t miss a factor of three.

          • LCD

            There are two PCE-830s one from the mains and one after the control box. They sandwich it so if there is power unaccounted for by the second it will show up in the first. At least that’s the way I understand it from quickly reading the report. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

          • Ged

            You’re spot on correct.

          • Ged

            Here’s the web site giving the specs of the PCE used . Remember, they also measured the raw power from the mains, before the controller; no fooling that. These guys aren’t dumb.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Don’t doubt power from mains, there is no challenge here to the varacity of the report – I thought at first that it was resistively heated to the 1400 ºC – but that made no sense as everything would be on a threshold of failure – this explains the shadows of the coils.

          • Ged

            That would still require the 3 times more power than went in, even assuming 100% efficiency of electricity straight to heat (induction isn’t remotely that efficient, obviously). There wasn’t enough energy from electricity alone to heat the thing to 1400 C; that would be the null hypothesis they disproved. That or we have an induction heater making enough excess heat to power itself and then some ;).

            But it gives really good insights into how sophisticated this is working. And indeed, does explain the shadows! Probably a secret sauce (tuning it right for the reaction), but could make things easier for building a replication apparatus. Less risk of wire failure and waste heat!

          • Bob Greenyer

            The induction heater pulse heats the powder to reaction temp at its surface – the Nuclear reactions heat the bulk of the reactor to 1400ºC – the thermocouple feedbacks to the induction heater to regulate the induction heat and current amplitude to prevent the reactor from over heating

          • Ged

            Eligant indeed. Now it all makes sense. And that means we can duplicate and even improve!

          • Ged

            Remember, Bob, they did a control run, and measured from the mains before the controller. May explain a very good method for uniform heating and thus reaction, instead of just hot spot wires. Could be a breakthrough for proper replication.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is tuneable to the powder and the skin effect only heats the surface where the reaction would take place, very efficient – neat and means the bulk of the reactors temperature is coming from the reactants NOT the heater coils

          • Ged

            And means homogeneous heating (or closer to), which may increase stability. None of those hot spots seen with Celani wires.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The chopped waveform would create a magnetic pulse that would align the nickel powder in a fine thread in the reactor core and exercise “pinch effect” on it. The 3 coils/AC would roll/shake the thread back and forth keeping it very dynamic. The harmonics from the chop create the Rydberg H (disassociated catalytically by the Fe2O3 and evolved from the LiAlH4) and the Li would be in vapour.

            The tuned induction heater would heat the only part of the Ni that needs to be heated (the surface) very efficiently.

            Self sustain might simply be a low current in the 3 coils to keep a magnetic shifting field holding the reactants in the central thread and dynamic.

            This explains the shape of the reactor as long and thin

          • Ged

            That’s an amazing revelation. It explains a ton, as you point out. This is like Christmas day, but intellectually. It also aligns well with theory of lattice pinch pressure as helping to drive reactants close to engage fusion, and illucidates the whole role of magnetic pulsed. If this proves true, you’ve just demystified the E-cat.

          • LCD

            You know I hate to say it but neutron creation and capture is starting to look more probable than proton fusion. Of course in some yet unknown way. I just don’t understand if it was p + Ni or Li fur example how we wouldn’t see other elements.

            But I don’t know, one can speculate.

          • Fortyniner

            Just like to humbly point out that I suggested both of these possibilities a very long time ago (and several times since):

            Peter Roe
            November 29, 2011 at 12:34 pm

            Replicators: My pennies worth from long term observation:

            Reactor casing: highly austenitic stainless steel, c.3cm thick for shielding, no lead for HT operation.

            Fuel: nanoparticle loose nickel, or same in/on sintered ceramic granulated carrier. Hydrogen.

            Heating: induction by external coil, low frequency high current driver OR HF direct current flow in nickel.

            Catalyst: none, CO2, metal carbonate, or take your pick of Ahern’s list!

            Maintenance: RF induction by external coil, high frequency (MHz/THz) low current driver.

            Control: driver feedback control and/or hydrogen pressure modulation.


            Peter Roe Gordon Docherty • 2 years ago

            There is also still the suspicion that RF EM may be used to stimulate/control the AHG phenomenon in nickel in the presence of hydrogen, as in the Rossi and (possibly) DGT reactors. As nickel is ferromagnetic, an oscillating EM field will produce frequency-following distortions in the metal lattice through magnetostrictive effects. This may allow the entry of protons or ‘hydrinos’ into microcavities in much the same way as you describe for the Casimir effect in crystals. These might then be forcibly collapsed as the field reverses, ‘crushing’ the protons/hydrinos into close proximity with surface nickel nuclei in the defect. It might be possible to set up standing waves or slow waves at any desired meta-frequency through ‘tuning’ to generate interference or resonance effects.


          • Ged

            You certainly called all those aspects, no doubt! It’s the particular implementation of the inductive heating control that brings it all together, which I was remarking on.

          • Ged

            I understand your gist now and why it’s so enlightening. Much safer device to build if induction than resistative! I think there was just a quick misunderstanding of communication, judging from curious’ post to which I reacted and which colored my perception of yours. Sorry for the misunderstanding, Bob, and great observation!

          • Bob Greenyer

            No Worries Ged.

            I posted this to the team and then leading scientists first for comment – but as with everything the MFMP does – everyone should know asap and this site is the best venue to connect.

            Now hopefully someone can replicate inside a week. Ryan says he has an induction heater, we have a range of powders and some LiAlH4 powder is on its way and should arrive monday.

          • Ged

            I am very excited. It’s surprisingly simple in designdesign, and you guys have become leading world experts in this. Any thoughts on the iron?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The Fe2O3 catalytically dissociates the H2 that evolves from the LiAlH4 (this was discussed at length in MFMP contributions by Bob Higgins)- also there may be some H+H re-association that creates intense atomic sized hot spots as per the Langmuir effect we spent so much time studying.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Clarification from Bob Higgins

            “Fe2O3 is not a catalyst – it is partly reduced Fe2O3 that is the catalyst. The processing I use coats the Ni particle surface area with Fe2O3 nano-particles, and then I thermo-chemically process to alloy those particles into the Ni surface, and then I reduce to activate the Fe sites as a catalyst”

            He is shipong some prepared powder to Ryan

          • Ged

            Very interesting. I knew there had to be more to the iron than just random grains. Also, read the facebook details, and I think you’re right about condensation of the inactive isotopes. That very nicely explains the observation of both the purified nickel 62 and iron grains. It also opens the door to more theories on the mechanism of the reaction and the dynamics within the reactor. I recall the last updates I saw on the powder cell data showed that type 1 bifurcation like behavior of the temperature oscillations (if a real, measured event): that may have been an observation of a small or localized amount of that very reaction–>condensation effect, that “sputtering”.

            It does seem to bring the data from the powder cell into a clearer focus. This paper has been monumental.

          • Daniel Maris

            Hold your horses people – this might be Bob’s nice way of saying he’s somewhat sceptical! 🙂 We shall see…

          • Mr. Moho

            Would the thickness of the electrical cables in the E-Cat seen so far allow fitting a properly functioning induction coil?

          • Bob Greenyer

            It only has to deliver small amounts of high frequency energy to the surface of a very small amount of nickel. The aim is not to forge big iron bars here.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes why not – as it is so much better?

    • Freethinker

      I did send them an email and requested them to reconsider and accepting the preprint to their database.

  • Justin Church

    BREAKING NEWS! H-Cat Hillbilly Reactor Fueled By Garbage And We Are Taking Out The “Garbage” At Our Forum In More Ways Than One… The H-CAT Was Built By The People For The People! H-Cat Thread LENR Stuff Sub Thread For The Latest On The H-Cat Saga…

  • Jonnyb
  • Sanjeev

    I never heard of this person before, but s/he claims to have a tech ‘similar to Ecat’.

    • Omega Z

      Russ George is the guy who dumped100 tonnes of iron sulphate into the Pacific Ocean. Promotes plankton which gobbles up CO2 which are eaten by fish, Etc,,, The following year the Salmon catch was huge. Google him- Wiki

  • LCD

    You mean the ecat?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Any replication will give him his patent. It is proven to work and have utility and if some body like the MFMP or similar who is knowledgeable in the field can replicate, then they could not deny the patent (pending searches for challenging prior art).

    • Omega Z

      I think this needs to be said.
      Reading posts about the China connection. China will do it all.

      “having high level conversations with people outside of China”
      Says it all. They are having similar conversations with multiple parties.
      China is just 1 of who knows how many.

      If you needed to rebuild every home in the World, would you dump all this on a single country to deal with? NO, No single country could do it. Not enough manpower, money or resources. The job is that big.

      This will be built by nearly everyone. And Still, it will take several decades.

      • India could also be interested in it. They have very high temperatures and multible blackouts every day caused by the many air conditioners and weak electric infrastructure.

        • LuFong

          Reminds me of another company…

          >Andrea Rossi
          >October 11th, 2014 at 8:48 PM
          >Daniel G.Zavela:
          >As a matter of fact, we already have a plant of 1 MW made for a
          >Customer. For all the next 12-14 months my only and sole focus will be
          >on it: it is the milestone that signals the first commercial product
          >based on LENR ( or QUAR, as my friend Renato Estri likes to say) in the
          >free market.

          >The success of this plant goes beyond anything else, and nothing will
          >take a single hour of my work but it from now through the end of 2015.
          >Also my activity of R&D will be focused on it. All my great team is
          >focused on it.
          >Warm Regards,

          Not even a single hour! Sounds like Rossi’s had enough. And you thought the wait for the “6 month” report was bad. Let’s hope someone replicates this thing so we can get to the bottom of what’s going on because it won’t be from Rossi.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Rossi is very conservative in his statements. Some weeks ago he said that there were problems with the 1 MW plant, whereupon some people became hysterical. Only a few days later he reported that the problems had been solved. I think the period of one year is required to test the plant’s reliability and long-term performance, and to make minor adjustments if necessary. IH cannot afford to sell a product for 1+ million $ without being sure that it will not break after a short time. As soon as the plant works as intended, Rossi will surly have more than a single hour to devote himself to other things.

          • LuFong

            He first mentioned a visitable plant in 2011. But I can understand him just wanting to work in peace and not have to deal with curious people (I’m one) all the time. And I can also understand the nature of the E-Cat and it’s commercialization. On the other hand it has been 3 years since he sold his first 1MW plant and he has continued his “In Mercato Veritas” for quite a while now. I do not understand Rossi and how he is doing things. I’m not holding out any hope for any definitive statement about the state of the E-Cat from Rossi anytime soon anymore.

  • Can someone say where this (patho-sceptic) guy has made a failure:

    That’s a german forum with a lot of good (astro)physicists. He didn’t mention the Lithium.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      The nickel >> copper theory is not applicable to the new reactor, since no copper has been found in the ash. I wonder why he brings up this old stuff. Some people thought at that time that the copper came from the reactor walls. I don’t know if the older E-Cats indeed produced copper – perhaps they did. They were operating at much lower temperatures, and possibly they used potassium instead of lithium. The reactor wall hypothesis could easily explain the additional copper, but that would have to be proven. Another possibility is that the samples for the analysis were too small to reflect the overall distribution of elements correctly. This could, by the way, as well be the case in the current test.

      • Thank you Andreas. It thought this too, but wasn’t sure if I missed something. I posted a repsonse to him. I hate this constant bullshitting of this guys, which have now proven not to read the new report, but dragging it through the mire.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi has stated that the copper could have been contamination when the sample was removed for analysis. As copper components are no longer used & none found in samples, it’s a good bet it was just contamination.

  • Mike the Engineer

    Warning: long epistle follows. Sorry, but readers will understand my excitement.

    The test results are to me quite compelling. I will note the calculated COP includes all the heat loss from the wires supplying the current. Based just on delivery of power to the reactor I get more like a 5.6 number. In real life you won’t design your power supply wires to be glowing red hot. Bigger diameter wires and also you will recover that heat. You wouldn’t have a 5.6 COP due to inefficiencies in delivering power, but it would be greater than the 3.9.

    Implications: Eventual energy independence for the USA. Clean non-polluting energy, certainly reducing carbon footprint. Electric bills cut in half, at least. This aids the entire economy. Europe will not have to be extorted by the Russians. I don’t see everyone going off the grid right away, but we will have cheaper electricity (50% cheaper?) and eventually will use less of it. Don’t see this as a replacement for gasoline in cars, just yet. But perhaps conversion to a modern Stanley Steamer some day. No flying cars. Jets and airplanes will still need aviation fuel. Coal, solar and wind will be hardest hit. No new nuclear plants built. Natural gas will still be in demand. Liquid hydrocarbons gradually trend down.

    Okay, here is my engineering analysis: It appears you need to maintain electric power to the reactor, not just an initial jump start. This means you have a heavy power system (or else you stay connected to the grid). Efficient but heavy. This limits on aviation and also at least initially on cars.

    Certainly can operate up to 1400 C, which is plenty good to extract work efficiently. I see a simple way to convert most of our existing power plants to the e-cat. Use a set of these reactor rods to heat all incoming air to very hot temps, say 2300 F. Hotter if the reactors can take it. Turn off your burners and force circulate this hot air through existing power plant boilers. You’ll make your steam, just like you used to. Steam will go to drive the same turbines to spin them and make electricity to the grid. Additionally, this is now a closed air circuit. You can recirculate this now cooler air back to the front and reheat. No loss of heat to the stack. You might need some natural gas for the superheaters. All your pollution control equipment can be dismantled. This would be a straightforward conversion easily performed by any number of engineering firms. Quick payback on capital investments as well.

    With little or no costs for fossil fuel I would estimate your electricity cost might halve? From 14 cents to 7 cents per kilowatt hour. The entire economy would get a boost. Someone could check me on this. Other ways to extract work would be, if it were possible, to weld or bond external jacket around these rods and directly heat your water. If jacket can be made of a material such that jacket can be welded to contain high pressure high temp water, then you have an even more direct transfer of heat. Molten salt would be a third alternative.

    For home use I don’t see us going off the grid, you would need a miniature steam plant, unless there is some way to efficiently and directly convert heat to electricity, we don’t have that yet, unless Stirling engines could be used. But right now you would have a high efficiency energy source coupled with a low efficiency engine (Stirling). Needs more research.

    However – clearly these reactors could clearly be used for direct heating of homes and office buildings and hot water. That’s non-trivial. Could it be used for air conditioning? Perhaps. There are refrigeration cycles that use heat for A/C. However, they’re inefficient and relatively capital intensive compared to other refrigeration technologies. But … perhaps. Overall effect would be to reduce your electric needs from the grid even more.

    Benefits will not be immediate. More research needed. But IH doesn’t have to do all this by themselves. Once they can demonstrate a stable and safe product, they just manufacture the reactor components to sell, and/or license manufacture of reactors to trusted third parties. The American engineering system will figure out everything else. Implementation will take time however.

    • You are right. It’ll be a big *** deal.

      But while I don’t think there’s any question overall about the E-Cat this particular test report is far from air-tight. As a result we may not see it published at all in a peer reviewed journal unless/until the problems with it are addressed satisfactorily — if they can be.

      So we’re still going in slow motion. Hopefully Industrial Heat and other LENR companies have more planned than just another year of R&D. As Darden implies, we needed this technology yesterday. Enough with the delays and secrecy. Let’s go!

  • LENR For the Win
    I’ve added a section on fuel and ash analysis.

    I’ve also made some changes to the assessment based on the new Darden interview and the emerging issue with the alumina translucency, which I think deserves a comprehensive explanation (ideally from the Professors).

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    My internet was gone for half a day and now I read Bob solved it?

    When can we expect to see the first replication from MFMP then? 1 week?

    This is so much fun 🙂

  • LCD

    Its regular mains power, don’t think so.

    Also read the report not the picture.

  • Omega Z

    Point #1 It produces excess heat 3 to 4 times what is being supplied.

    Your confusion is from a lack of understanding the design of the Reactor.

    Mouse/Cat/Mouse is what I envision. Cat in the middle.

    All the heat in the Cat tube is produced by the Nickel/Fuel charge.
    The striations or shadows you see may be wires that are producing No Power.
    The wires being part of the Reactor that produce the EM pulses that enhance the self-sustain mode. Not active in this test.

    The ends that glow of which (glow) can be seen extend into the power feed wires is where the heaters/Mouse are located.

    The above is the basics of the E-cat design by deductive reasoning.
    Rossi-> This is the Mouse/Cat Reactor.
    Rossi-> Power is only supplied to the Mouse. No power connected to the Cat.
    Rossi-> The Cat is Powered/Activated by the Mouse.

    An Alternate to the striations or shadows you see.
    They may be caused by the ceramic slip used to mold the Alumina Ceramic tube that produces a swirl effect.

    In this case, the EM pulse could be contained at the ends in the mouse.

  • Bernie777

    If Darden means what he says, only interest is to “eliminate the use of coal” and “is not in it for the money”, then they should release all PI information into the patent and let everyone or anyone replicate.

    • psi2u2

      Having thought about this for a few days, I think this is a “Dardan dodge.” It behooves him, like Rossi, to downplay the transformative implications of the technology. He is very purposefully understating and framing the new technology so as to arouse the least possible unnecessary opposition. This is just my opinion, but it is what I would do if I were in Dardan’s shoes.

    • Jix1

      Maybe he will sell it to you. His investment may or may not be profitable in the end, but certainly making it public at this stage would guarantee it would be a dead end. These things take lots of $$ to get going and so many want it to be freely given to the world. I suggest those who feel it belongs to the world put up the funding themselves to then be given freely to the rest of the world.