Industrial Heat buying up all E-Cat licenses (Ian Walker)

The following was submitted by Ian Walker

Hi all,

Industrial heat are putting their money on the nose.

Andrea Rossi
November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal and sold us back their license.
The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific issues.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=864#comments

  • SammyM

    Last year Sterling Allan of PESN had an interview with one of the E-Cat Distributor and License Broker Roger Green. The interview can be found on this page:

    http://pesn.com/2013/05/17/9602315_Interview-with_E-Cat-Distributor-License-Broker_Roger-Green/

    According to Roger, the following is a breakdown of territory slots taken and
    available (this was of May last year):

    North and South America, China and Russia — all spoken for by
    large company [“spoken for” means “taken”]

    Europe — everything but Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the
    Ukraine, and 10% of Portugal are spoken for

    Middle East — Israel, UAE, Saudia Arabia are taken, everything
    else is available

    Africa — all spoken for, via 17 investors

    Australasia — Roger’s

    Asia — Roger and his family (Japan through Burma)

    India – Roger’s partner

    I’m hoping someone can contact Roger Green and ask him to confirm the story of the licensees being bought out. I understand that there is a NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement) on the details. I’m sure he can give a quick statement on whether he’s still in or not.

  • So who and where are the people the critics claim Mr. Andrea Rossi is ripping off? Has anyone sued Andrea Rossi for fraud? I don’t think so. The only unfortunate thing I suspect, but do not know for sure, is that Industrial Heat, LLC may start mass production of E-Cats in China, not in the USA. I hope I am wrong on this suspicion. If anyone has a different idea, please come forward and give me the good news.

    • Omega Z

      Christopher

      I fully expect E-cats to be manufactured in multiple countries. The scale & magnitude of the task is very formidable. To much for any one Corporation or Nation.

      • psi2u2

        When you look at the geopolitics of oil, I think IH was very smart to swiftly partner with Chinese companies. It increased my confidence in the company’s business saavy to see them do that.

        Like Omega Z, I hope that the cats will be manufactured at multiple locations.

        • Omega Z

          If there only manufactured in China, it will be many years before we see one. China’s own demand would amount to many Billion’s of E-cat reactors alone. Not to mention the hardware to make use of them.

          • psi2u2

            I doubt it is their intent to *only* manufacture in China.

  • So who and where are the people the critics claim Mr. Andrea Rossi is ripping off? Has anyone sued Andrea Rossi for fraud? I don’t think so. The only unfortunate thing I suspect, but do not know for sure, is that Industrial Heat, LLC may start mass production of E-Cats in China, not in the USA. I hope I am wrong on this suspicion. If anyone has a different idea, please come forward and give me the good news.

    • Omega Z

      Christopher

      I fully expect E-cats to be manufactured in multiple countries. The scale & magnitude of the task is very formidable. To much for any one Corporation or Nation.

      • psi2u2

        When you look at the geopolitics of oil, I think IH was very smart to swiftly partner with Chinese companies. It increased my confidence in the company’s business saavy to see them do that.

        Like Omega Z, I hope that the cats will be manufactured at multiple locations.

        • Omega Z

          If there only manufactured in China, it will be many years before we see one. China’s own demand would amount to many Billion’s of E-cat reactors alone. Not to mention the hardware to make use of them.

          • psi2u2

            I doubt it is their intent to *only* manufacture in China.

  • Mark Szl

    Here is another take on what this means.

    What if after the very recent critical examination of the latest test results of the ecat, the testers then reexamined the data and found that the COP was really 1 not 3.

    IH maybe just REFUNDING licenses.

    • psi2u2

      That’s hilarious.

      • Mark Szl

        Not really … sad.

    • pg

      Or maybe the licensees are now investing in the ITER project and need to raise money fast. They heard of a COP 1,01 by 2027 and are jumping all over it.
      Seems just as plausible

      • Mark Szl

        Won’t know until we get resolution of the anomalies found in the recent report. Was it COP 3, was it COP > 3 or was it really COP 1?

        COP 1 will make every sensible person … run for the hills when it comes to Ecat, Rossi or IH.

        Those scientists better show the data on this soon. They have it and it has been nearly 5 weeks with no reply. NOT A CONFIDENCE BUILDER!!!!

        • Patience. Like most elements of this unfolding drama things often don’t happen at the pace we would like them to. I personally have no doubt that the investigators will update the report at some point and answer most of our questions — whether the information is positive or negative (!)

          • Mark Szl

            I am crossing my fingers but they are taking an long time when they already have the data. Releasing that information before they release the final report would be nice.

          • Omega Z

            They will respond when they get around to it. It is a scattered lot around Europe & this is not their primary endeavor. As to all the data. Never going to happen. That’s for a select few. Not the masses.

          • Mark Szl

            The data that ivanc, dr. Mike, us citizen and others want does not disclose any ip but can tell about a problem with current and/or power measures discovered in the report. See the comments that go with this post:

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/15/mats-lewan-testers-rule-out-inverted-clamp-hypothesis-rossi-comments-mark-e-kitiman/

            Not only critics of these ecat tests but supporters of ecat are seeing big problems when they look at the balanced three phase calculations and the data.

        • Warthog

          I guess you missed the article and thread:

          “Mats Lewan: Testers Rule Out Inverted Clamp Hypothesis, Rossi Comments”

          Lewans communicated directly to the scientists who ran the test, and this is their response. How much more “commentary” do you want??

          This whole “clamp” business is simply a desperate ploy to come up with some anti-CF “meme” that will sell to the uninformed, as there are other measurements available. In order for the clamp error to make a difference, the clamp positions would have to have been changed between the “dummy” (blank) run and the “active fuel” run, otherwise the supposed error would simply cancel out…..the absolute wattage output calculations would be wrong, but the fact that the “active” run ran a higher temperature than the “dummy” STILL says that the E-cat is for real.

          • Mark Szl

            The comments in that thread have moved a bit passed where you are. Go read them again.

          • psi2u2

            Its interesting how “I didn’t know that” gets paraded as “they didn’t do it.” Now, I’m sure that Mark Szl will respond that this statement was not was he was looking for, and he would be correct in maintaining that this communication does not resolve the issues with the report. However, it is obviously untrue, in the most basic sense, to outright declare “with no response.”

        • blanco69

          I not sure we’ve yet arrived at a COP of 1. Although I would point out that the only direction the COP value has gone is south. Infinite, about 20, 12, 6 and 3. It can’t go any lower although there is pressure for it to do so (Rossi’s preference of a Gas Cat points to this). It’s funny how we are still clinging onto some COP hope despite this value being slashed in an almost arbitrary way over the years.

          • bachcole

            Sounds like FUD to me. I am surprised and disappointed that blanco69 feels this way.

            I think that lower COPs are to insure stability.

    • timycelyn

      ..and I may be the Pope……

      • Forgive me, Your Holiness – I had no idea…

    • Omega Z

      The buy back started shortly after Industrial Heat bought Rossi’s technology.
      It should be noted- Not all license were repatriated to IH.
      That more then a few of us here at ECW had misgivings of some of Rossi’s Licensees. One had an aire of Used car salesman smell. The 1st license repurchased.
      One Licensees may now be apart of the Industrial Heat investor group.

      Most of these Licensees were intent on selling home units which has been delayed due to certification issues. It is likely they wanted to free up their investment for other possibilities that will pay back sooner.

      And ultimately, If Industrial Heat issue license to entities such as GE, Siemens & others, they will already have their own distribution networks. They would see independents as an impediment to their business model.

    • Warthog

      If so, then the amount of money involved would not be greater than the sum originally paid for the license. That is not the case….IH is paying an extra premium to get those rights back. That business fact alone speaks volumes to the reality of the Cat.

  • GreenWin

    Clearly the value of the early-issued Leonardo licenses has increased markedly. It would be fair for IH to offer both a buyout sum AND a royalty to each licensee who had the courage and foresight to invest in AR. This “royalty” could be in the form of straight profit participation, private equity, options or warrants, royalty assignment to charitable organization, irrevocable right to purchase equity, etc.

    It is rare for a “fringe” invention to ever reach market. With that market now well in sight, a single lump sum buyout is disrespectful of early investors. Rossi’s version of LENR can reasonably be valued in Trillions of $$. Rewarding those who stayed loyal when times got very tough is part of the cosmic karma that has made the E-Cat a success. IMO.

    • Hi all

      In reply to GreenWin

      The companies are taking the deal; therefore the deal is good enough, it is, by definition, the market price. Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and to be crude about it, at what price do you suck D***? Basic business.

      None of the companies are loosing the money they invested, taking on a company with proven assets of 2 Billion and probably the backing to get more if needed, is a fight they cannot win. Hostile take overs happen.

      Besides how do you know that shares in say IH are not being offered?

      Kind Regards walker

      • pg

        Stock option in IH is a win win

        • GreenWin

          This is my point. Thanks pg.

      • GreenWin

        Sorry Ian. I do not understand your comment, “at what price to you suck D***?” I am suggesting a fair license buyout should include an option to purchase equity of some type. I do not know if shares of IH are being offered. But it seems very reasonable to me. Early VC investors typically get 5-10X return plus equity.

        • Hi all

          In reply to GreenWin

          All deals involve not getting the best you can, but what you can accept.

          Inherent in the concept of what you can accept rather than what is the best you can is “at what price do you suck D***?” in other words agree a deal that is not all you dreamed of but what is acceptable, the bargained price, the dicker.

          Kind Regards Walker

          • GreenWin

            Thanks for your reply Ian. But I’m still not understanding how fellatio relates to a fair and equitable buyout of an E-Cat license. IH understands they need to be fair if their long term goals are to be met. AND, even one licensee filing a complaint against IH/Rossi will provide skeptics just what they scrounge for.
            You seem passionate about this Ian. Are you somehow involved in these settlement discussions??

  • psi2u2

    That’s hilarious.

  • suhas R

    Rubiit in India has valid theory.designs,research reactor and involved private research in this energy sector

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I could get no relevant results on Google. Could you provide some additional information?

  • pg

    Or maybe the licensees are now investing in the ITER project and need to raise money fast. They heard of a COP 1,01 by 2027 and are jumping all over it.
    Seems just as plausible

  • timycelyn

    ..and I may be the Pope……

    • Fortyniner

      Forgive me, Your Holiness – I had no idea…

  • Omega Z

    The buy back started shortly after Industrial Heat bought Rossi’s technology.
    It should be noted- Not all license were repatriated to IH.
    That more then a few of us here at ECW had misgivings of some of Rossi’s Licensees. One had an aire of Used car salesman smell. The 1st license repurchased.
    One Licensees may now be apart of the Industrial Heat investor group.

    Most of these Licensees were intent on selling home units which has been delayed due to certification issues. It is likely they wanted to free up their investment for other possibilities that will pay back sooner.

    And ultimately, If Industrial Heat issue license to entities such as GE, Siemens & others, they will already have their own distribution networks. They would see independents as an impediment to their business model.

  • Julian Becker

    http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/kernfusion-was-wurde-eigentlich-aus-herrn-rossis-wunderreaktor-a-1003850.html

    Article about Rossi in DER SPIEGEL very negative pathosceptic. I guess when I told the author about the new developments he looked up http://www.ecatnews.com instead of ecatnews.net

  • Julian Becker

    http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/kernfusion-was-wurde-eigentlich-aus-herrn-rossis-wunderreaktor-a-1003850.html

    Article about Rossi in DER SPIEGEL very negative pathosceptic. I guess when I told the author about the new developments he looked up http://www.ecatnews.com instead of ecatnews.net

  • Patience. Like most elements of this unfolding drama things often don’t happen at the pace we would like them to. I personally have no doubt that the investigators will update the report at some point and answer most of our questions — whether the information is positive or negative (!)

  • Warthog

    I guess you missed the article and thread:

    “Mats Lewan: Testers Rule Out Inverted Clamp Hypothesis, Rossi Comments”

    Lewans communicated directly to the scientists who ran the test, and this is their response. How much more “commentary” do you want??

    This whole “clamp” business is simply a desperate ploy to come up with some anti-CF “meme” that will sell to the uninformed, as there are other measurements available. In order for the clamp error to make a difference, the clamp positions would have to have been changed between the “dummy” (blank) run and the “active fuel” run, otherwise the supposed error would simply cancel out…..the absolute wattage output calculations would be wrong, but the fact that the “active” run ran a higher temperature than the “dummy” STILL says that the E-cat is for real.

    • psi2u2

      Its interesting how “I didn’t know that” gets paraded as “they didn’t do it.” Now, I’m sure that Mark Szl will respond that this statement was not was he was looking for, and he would be correct in maintaining that this communication does not resolve the issues with the report. However, it is obviously untrue, in the most basic sense, to outright declare “with no response.”

    • LuFong

      Normally the testers publish their response. Normally the testers provide the data. Is this too much to ask?

      • Warthog

        They did publish…through Lewan. And I suspect that they will provide a more formal response and the data to go with it in the final version of the report. “You” don’t get to decide the timing…..they do.

  • bachcole

    To do this means that I.H. has muscle. Muscle = money + certainty.

    • bejammin075

      To play devil’s advocate, it could also just be “Rossi Says”. Is there any tangible evidence that any of these corporate activities are taking place?

  • LuFong

    This was discussed on the Vortex mailing list: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg99779.html

    Basically the distribution license was about to expire and rather than those that paid lose there money, IH in good faith bought back the license.

    One possible license agreement had been discovered/leaked and it showed a cost of about $100K and a term of 3 years: http://shutdownrossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Leonardo-Corporation-Exclusive-India-E-Cat-License-S.pdf

    • Omega Z

      “Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal and sold us back their license.”

      These buy backs began Immediately after Industrial Heat bought Rossi’s technology. And note, Those of a more reputable nature seem to still be on board. This is mostly old, regurgitated repackaged info that’s been recirculated to cause issues for Rossi.

      You bring up Gary Writes, OK, Moving on. I wont mention his past shenanigans & his attempted $hakedown of another entrepreneur.

      As to Gary Writes supposed “Leaked Contract”, Really?

      This looks like something 2 private individuals would draw up for a used car purchase. There is so much detail missing it reeks of fabrication. You’d find a more complex contract for a furnace/AC installation.

      I once did a Lease/Purchase contract on 6 trucks for my business. I suffered writers cramp from all the documents I had to sign. Not to mention eye strain from reading small print spread over about 40 pages.

      Here we see a 6 page contract that looks like someone strained to spread out the sparse details in order to fill them & on page 6 they toss in details for a 1Mw plant. Is this a business contract or a sales agreement for a 1Mw E-cat of which details don’t all match with other literature provided by Rossi.

      I see no legalese nor Lawyers for either party mentioned. No letterhead. I guess mentioning Lawyers by name on a fabricated contract would have serious repercussions. At $100K, this is not a contract I would sign. A verbal agreement with witnesses would be more binding in court then this crap.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I could get no relevant results on Google. Could you provide some additional information?

  • Chris I

    Chances are this could be an explanation for http://www.prometeon.it/

    • Omega Z

      PROMETEON SRL
      We are working to our new website.

      Hydro Fusion’s web site is also still up as is E-cat Australia both with recent activity.

  • Chris, Italy

    Chances are this could be an explanation for http://www.prometeon.it/

    • Omega Z

      PROMETEON SRL
      We are working to our new website.

      Hydro Fusion’s web site is also still up as is E-cat Australia both with recent activity.

  • SynergetX-HP.nl

    Obviously some parties are taking a step out or back from the LENR field.

    SynergetX HP (SHP) wants to use this occasion (and this community) to announce that SHP will stay in the market and hopes to make a step forward soon.

    This step forward could be the resolving of the dispute SHP is having regarding the Benelux exclusive commercial license regarding the e-Cats.
    Another step forward could be the putting in action of our (already 3 years old) plan for a 1MW e-Cat pilot which unfortunately has become stalled for a big part because of the risen previously mentioned dispute.

    There are many steps forward thinkable and we are already anticipating some.
    We hope to make further public announcements in december.

    @Frank Ackland:
    Because SHP is active in the LENR field since 28 oktober 2011 (coincides (coincidentally?) with the date of the first big eCat test), we would like to ask you to add us to your list of companies that are active in the LENR field.

    SynergetX-HP

    • Gerrit

      My quick assessment: They are soliciting for financial participation, other than that there isn’t any information what they plan to do.

      • SynergetX-HP.nl

        Beste Gerrit,

        Our website is rudimantairy to meet basic need and doesn’t reflect our complete
        gestalt. In the for december planned public announcement you’ll find more
        info…
        Meanwhile please take note that we mentioned a disputed Benelux license.
        SynergetX-HP

      • SynergetX-HP.nl

        Beste Gerrit,

        Our website is rudimantairy to meet basic need and doesn’t reflect our complete
        gestalt. In the for december planned public announcement you’ll find more
        info…
        Meanwhile please take note that we mentioned a disputed Benelux license.
        SynergetX-HP

  • Omega Z

    They will respond when they get around to it. It is a scattered lot around Europe & this is not their primary endeavor. As to all the data. Never going to happen. That’s for a select few. Not the masses.

  • Gerrit

    My quick assessment: They are soliciting for financial participation, other than that there isn’t any information what they plan to do.

  • blanco69

    I not sure we’ve yet arrived at a COP of 1. Although I would point out that the only direction the COP value has gone is south. Infinite, about 20, 12, 6 and 3. It can’t go any lower although there is pressure for it to do so (Rossi’s preference of a Gas Cat points to this). It’s funny how we are still clinging onto some COP hope despite this value being slashed in an almost arbitrary way over the years.

  • Hi all

    In reply to GreenWin

    Something you do not want to do but will if the deal is good enough.

    Everybody has a price at which they will suck D***.

    What is yours?

    Kind Regards walker

  • Redford

    If this is confirmed this is maybe one of the most convincing “this is true” argument.

  • Bernie777

    Rossi or IH have not said why they are buying up licences, does not make sense if they want to get as many E-Cats on the market as fast as possible.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Rossi or IH have not said why they are buying up licences, does not make sense if they want to get as many E-Cats on the market as fast as possible.