Rossi: ‘Now the Competition is Very Serious’

Today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, Buck brought to Andrea Rossi’s attention this article on the Gulfnews.com website which carries the story about the physicists who want India to revive a cold fusion research program.

Buck wrote:

“Gulf News, the largest English language newspaper in the Gulf region (UAE, Dubai, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia), with a daily circulation of about 110,000, has just reported that India is moving towards getting back into CF research. Your work, the China Nickel Energy connection in Baoding, and Bill Gates’ recent visit with Vittorio Violante were cited in a factual positive fashion.

To me, the tone takes on an alarmist quality as it presents CF phenomena as fact and CF technology as imminent.”

Andrea Rossi responded:

“As I wrote on this blog one hour ago, now the competition is very serious. Thanks to the work of my Team, LENR, that 5 years ago were very “low”, not only in temperature, but also in global consideration, have gained momentum at high level. My Team merits recognition for this: our action and our fight have been the real game changer.”

In an earlier post today, Rossi was writing on the same theme:

“Gas fuel will substitute electric energy to activate the reactor and drive it; I cannot give more particulars until we will have a product ready for the market. We cannot feed more information to our competition, which now is very powerful. We need to reach extreme commercial competitivity before lacking more information. When we will have reached the necessary economy scale our prices will discourage any competition, but before that phase we must be aware of the fact that our Competitors are eating voraciously any single bit of information we are lacking.”

It does seem like there is a change in intensity from Rossi and others now as LENR/Cold Fusion seems to now be receiving more respect than at any other time since I have been covering the topic here.

It’s interesting to see Rossi speaking once again about ‘economies of scale’ — which means mass production — in order to deter competitors. There was a time that Rossi talked about there being no serious competitors on the scene; now that has changed, and it seems like we’ll be getting fewer details from Rossi about Industrial Heat’s technology from him now until products are on the market.

  • pg

    from Andrea Rossi on JONP:

    Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
    You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal and sold us back their license.
    The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
    We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific issues.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Curbina

      This was known already, It’s odd that Passerini would not be aware of this.

      • psi2u2

        It deserves restating. Some pathoskeps have been insinuating, with no evidence, that Rossi has been cheating those former licensees through new agreements with IH. In response I asked for any evidence that Rossi was not still on good terms with these persons. It is good to have a direct affirmative statement on the matter.

    • bkrharold

      That is very interesting. This could mean IH and Rossi are preparing for a full scale commercial release in the near future, and want to maintain control of the implementation.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        AND perhaps because a sellout to a huge company (like GE) would be cleaner and easier with far fewer licensees in the picture.

        • Omega Z

          Entities like GE & Siemens would have their own distribution network if they licensed the technology from IH/Rossi.

          Also, most of Rossi’s licensees were looking to sell home units which are some time away & this delay could cause legal issues.

          • psi2u2

            Of course the airplanes hit towers 1 and 2. Please reread my post and do some research and see if you can explain why building 7, not hit by an airplane, came down at freefall speed, as if detonated, later that afternoon. I think that if you spend a couple of hours studying this question you will agree with me that we still don’t have the full story of what actually happened that day or why it happened.

            Regarding your point about mixing stories, I completely agree – which is one reason I would prefer not to carry out an extended discussion on this topic here. We are agreed that, whatever the facts of 911 (which it appears we don’t agree on), it is better to focus on one paradigm shift/out of the box topic at a time. Peswiki would be much more credible if Sterling avoided the need to endorse all the “alternative” theories he holds and stuck to following new developments in energy.

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

            Nobody is going to agree with dissent, because there is a ‘comfortably permitted’ truth, the Bible (the permitted Bible), and then there is a question mark stuck in the head of some whose practical sense (the heretics) keeps nagging:
            How can, not one, but TWO buildings collapse perfectly vertically, with the cause of collapse given by an aircraft impact, and the fuel burning, at the top tier of the towers? A third building collapsed not even apparently hit by anything.
            http://911review.org/WTC/concrete-core.html
            http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/world_trade_center/

            Questions and mass mind-games…

  • pg

    from Andrea Rossi on JONP:

    Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
    You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal and sold us back their license.
    The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
    We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific issues.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Paul Smith

      I think that probably one of those licensees could be http://www.prometeon.it whose web site seems to be closed from some week.

      • Gerrit

        Maybe somebody could contact Aldo Proia (of prometeon) and ask what he thinks of the situation.

      • Curbina

        Prometeon was dealing with Defkalion, not with Rossi. This was widely discussed here, and the reason was that Prometeon hired a third party to perform an analysis of the apparatus used to test by Defkalion and they found a way to explain the results without being OU. But this was a completely different set up than Rossi’s.

        • pg

          I think you are getting confused. Prometeon has the licence to distribute the ecat in Italy. They never dealt with Defkalion.
          Luca Gamberale from Defkalion Europe, that had the distribution rights for the Hyperion in Europe, found some problems with the measurements. Now Defkalion Europe does not exist any more

          • Gerrit

            Correct, Prometeon dealt with the e-cat.

          • Curbina

            Yes you are absolutely correct, my bad, I had them completely mingled in my mind, must be the blood pressure reduction medicine I’m taking, LOL. Thanks for setting me straight 🙂

    • Curbina

      This was known already, It’s odd that Passerini would not be aware of this.

      • psi2u2

        It deserves restating. Some pathoskeps have been insinuating, with no evidence, that Rossi has been cheating those former licensees through new agreements with IH. In response I asked for any evidence that Rossi was not still on good terms with these persons. It is good to have a direct affirmative statement on the matter.

    • bkrharold

      That is very interesting. This could mean IH and Rossi are preparing for a full scale commercial release in the near future, and want to maintain control of the implementation.

      • AND perhaps because a sellout to a huge company (like GE) would be cleaner and easier with far fewer licensees in the picture.

        • Omega Z

          Entities like GE & Siemens would have their own distribution network if they licensed the technology from IH/Rossi.

          Also, most of Rossi’s licensees were looking to sell home units which are some time away & this delay could cause legal issues.

      • bachcole

        It definitely means that they have the muscle to buy back the licences without breaking a sweat. Muscle = money + certainty of success.

  • Oceans2014

    Competition is heating up: Rossi says – we must be aware of the fact that our Competitors are eating voraciously any single bit of information we are lacking.”

    • Gerard McEk

      To me this sentence makes only sence if “lacking” is a typo for “leaking”.

      • pelgrim108

        I agree, and I had to look up what “typo” means, because I thought it meant accidently using a wrong key on the keyboard.

  • pelgrim108

    Is it possible that “lacking” is a typo for “leaking”?

  • pelgrim108

    Is it possible that “lacking” is a typo for “leaking”?
    Edit: Nevermind, I see it now, it is not a typo.
    Edit 2 : Now I think it IS a typo. ( after looking up what “typo” means 😡

    • Stefenski

      surely is SHOULD be Leaking ! – what do you see otherwise , thanks.
      especially as it is twice misspelled ..

      • Kerbec

        Yeah… «releasing». The guy is Italian.

  • Achi

    Competition drives innovation. Perhaps now marks the beginning of when we’ll see movements from industrial heat as a company, to secure a position before others gain a foothold.

  • BroKeeper

    Those mentioned Persian Gulf oil countries have recently stated they will not be reducing production. Why? The simple analysis is reality of LENR has arrived. Their oil reserves are becoming devalued not only by over production of competitive oil countries but also now by the double threat of the ‘new fire’. They must maintain and make the most of their revenue source while they can. Now with ‘big player’ billionaires and major countries supporting LENR development it is even more urgent to extract all they can. Buckle up and enjoy the ride.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Other fossil energy prices should soon follow the downward trend of oil (if not, then oil will temporarily rebound), and after that investments to new nuclear plants and renewables should come to a halt, except those strongly subsidised ones that are not dependent on the market price.

      • Fortyniner

        Unfortunately your last category includes nuclear fission in the UK, as our esteemed leaders are in the process of committing UK consumers to paying double the going rate for electricity generated over the next 35 years by the proposed new fission reactors at Hinkley Point C (unlike the similar dinosaurs being built in Olkiluoto by the TVO consortium, which I understand will receive no such subsidies).

        • blanco69

          Yes Peter, Saudi Electric are reportedly looking for a stake in Hinkley. EDf, the Chineese Nuclear Corp and now Saudi Electric will all do pretty well out of the poor UK consumer. I hope DECC get held to account for the next 35 years on this mistake. It’s a sad situation when the so called experts have a plan that ignores common sense let alone LENR.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That nuclear plant is a terrible deal on almost every level.

            Who would not invest in something that is legally bound to make a guaranteed profit whatever happens over 50 years – unbelievable.

          • pg

            No doubt. The only benefit for the UK the economy might come from Cameron’s finances once he starts spending all the money he gets from his new friends, under the form of speeches fees and Board of directors seats etc…

          • Fortyniner

            I’m afraid that’s how I read things, too. There doesn’t seem to be any other reasonable explanation. One man’s desire for a fat ‘pension’ could cost the UK very dearly.

          • Daniel Maris

            It can only be the result of lobbying.

            Even if you hate wind, solar, and other renewables why would you choose such an expensive and possibly highly dangerous option (however safe you make your systems, you can’t rule out internal terrorist sabotage)? You would obviously just go with gas which can be purchased from many places in the world and which we also produce in the UK.

          • Bob Greenyer
          • NT

            Yes Bob, very good news for our world and UK energy ratepayers. Lets hope it is the end for this terrible project…

          • Omega Z

            I don’t think LENR is the source of dropping oil prices, but it could be effecting other projects behind closed doors such as Nuclear, And then there is also this about Wind turbine project in jeopardy.
            Of course, at this time other excuses would be the public face.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/11234261/Plans-for-3bn-Navitus-Bay-wind-farm-off-Jurassic-Coast-in-doubt.html

          • Fortyniner

            Indeed it is, at least if Saudi investment can be kept out of the desperate wheeler-dealing going on to keep this ridiculous project afloat.

    • Omega Z

      Their struggling for market share. The reduced demand from the U.S. has a major impact due to the fact we make up the single largest oil market. 20/25%.

      Just read a recent article about Saudi’s contemplating a future without Oil revenues. Within 15/20 years, they look to have none left to export. That’s about the same time the U.S. looks for it’s output to also go into final decline.

      While many expect LENR to hurt oil sales, many Nations are looking to not having any left. At least of an affordable nature. For many, LENR may be just in time to avoid economic collapse.

  • Brokeeper

    Those mentioned Persian Gulf oil countries have recently stated they will not be reducing production. Why? The simple analysis is reality of LENR has arrived. Their oil reserves are becoming devalued not only by over production of competitive oil countries but also now by the double threat of the ‘new fire’. They must maintain and make the most of their revenue source while they can. Now with ‘big player’ billionaires and major countries supporting LENR development it is even more urgent to extract all they can. Buckle up and enjoy the ride.

    • Fisher

      My guess is that oil is low because Saudi is trying to hurt the US shale oil competition and/or kick Russia and Iran in the purse strings. It’s a far more likely scenario than LENR causing some kind of pricing panick…and I like LENR. 🙂

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I agree with regard to the Saudi-US competition. The Saudis are the best strategists on oil you can imagine. But I think that it is mainly the USA who have an interest in annoying Russia a little bit. Otherwise, they would complain much louder about the current situation.

      • Brokeeper

        Review Sifferkoll’s analytical charts beginning with September 30th
        and you may reconsider LENR’s influence:
        http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Other fossil energy prices should soon follow the downward trend of oil (if not, then oil will temporarily rebound), and after that investments to new nuclear plants and renewables should come to a halt, except those strongly subsidised ones that are not dependent on the market price.

      • Unfortunately your last category includes nuclear fission in the UK, as our esteemed leaders are in the process of committing UK consumers to paying double the going rate for electricity generated over the next 35 years by the proposed new fission reactors at Hinkley Point C (unlike the similar dinosaurs being built in Olkiluoto by the TVO-Areva-Siemens consortium, which I understand will receive no such subsidies). Most existing UK reactors are already heavily subsidised by consumers, the money flowing through various semi-hidden back channels.

        • blanco69

          Yes Peter, Saudi Electric are reportedly looking for a stake in Hinkley. EDf, the Chineese Nuclear Corp and now Saudi Electric will all do pretty well out of the poor UK consumer. I hope DECC get held to account for the next 35 years on this mistake. It’s a sad situation when the so called experts have a plan that ignores common sense let alone LENR.

          • Bob Greenyer

            That nuclear plant is a terrible deal on almost every level.

            Who would not invest in something that is legally bound to make a guaranteed profit whatever happens over 50 years – unbelievable.

          • pg

            No doubt. The only benefit for the UK the economy might come from Cameron’s finances once he starts spending all the money he gets from his new friends, under the form of speeches fees and Board of directors seats etc…

          • I’m afraid that’s how I read things, too. There doesn’t seem to be any other reasonable explanation. One man’s desire for a fat ‘pension’ could cost the UK very dearly.

    • Omega Z

      Their struggling for market share. The reduced demand from the U.S. has a major impact due to the fact we make up the single largest oil market. 20/25%.

      Just read a recent article about Saudi’s contemplating a future without Oil revenues. Within 15/20 years, they look to have none left to export. That’s about the same time the U.S. looks for it’s output to also go into final decline.

      While many expect LENR to hurt oil sales, many Nations are looking to not having any left. At least of an affordable nature. For many, LENR may be just in time to avoid economic collapse.

  • psi2u2

    Check out this CNBC interview with Opec Secretary General who says that “fundamentals” do not explain the long slide in oil prices and that “speculation,” not oversupply, is driving the decline. Hmmmm…. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102190295

    • Chris the 2nd

      It used to be speculation driving the price up above market value. That speaks for itself, they are worried about something causing the value to crash in the near future so the price is heading back down to actual cost again.

      • psi2u2

        It is still going down today.

    • bkrharold

      Once LENR use is widespread oil prices will be so low, it will not be worth extracting them from the ground, least of all the poisonous Canadian tar sands. There will be no need for a carbon tax, because they will be economically uncompetitive even with subsidies and tax breaks from the Government they now enjoy.

      • Bob Greenyer

        except that it will be very cheap to extract them as LENR will provide cheap energy.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Perhaps it will be cheaper and easier to extract the carbons from air for plastics and chemicals etc. In the future low CO2 might be the concern.

          • Chris the 2nd

            Very easy to make an argument that without industrialisation low CO2 could well be a concern, 280ppm (where we were) is way below optimum for the biosphere.

          • Fortyniner

            If this is correct we may need every gram of CO2 we can muster (or we would, IF it was a significant ‘greenhouse gas’):

            http://www.sott.net/article/289105-Former-NASA-consultant-climatologist-John-L-Casey-a-radical-shift-in-global-climate-is-underway-30-Year-cold-spell-will-strike-Earth

          • Bob Greenyer

            We already have the infrastructure to make pharmaceuticals, fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides, plastics etc from oil – that is what it should be reserved for – with LENR, it could serve scores of generations – not just the people alive today – and give time for a proper transition to an alternative approach like you suggest.

          • Omega Z

            I agree 100% Bob.

            Once we burn these resources, their gone forever & we’ll need them for a long time. I don’t think people grasp just how much oil the world uses every year. 40 Billion barrels a year. 400 billion in 10 years. They may be in very short supply before the transition is completed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @Omega,

            It is a crime against our decedents that Oil is used for road transport, and we be seen as such by future generations. We need to find a way out of this wanton waste to save our legacy.

        • bitplayer

          and balance of payments and other considerations will come into play, though that’s a secondary and harder sell. Would you rather frack in Wyoming or keep the 6th Fleet in the gulf?

    • BroKeeper

      Nice comment you added as well psi2u2. Your spreading the word. 😉

      • psi2u2

        Thanks. I try to do what I have time and energy for.

  • psi2u2

    Check out this CNBC interview with Opec Secretary General who says that “fundamentals” do not explain the long slide in oil prices and that “speculation,” not oversupply, is driving the decline. Hmmmm…. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102190295

    • Chris the 2nd

      It used to be speculation driving the price up above market value. That speaks for itself, they are worried about something causing the value to crash in the near future so the price is heading back down to actual cost again.

      • psi2u2

        It is still going down today.

    • bkrharold

      Once LENR use is widespread oil prices will be so low, it will not be worth extracting them from the ground, least of all the poisonous Canadian tar sands. There will be no need for a carbon tax, because they will be economically uncompetitive even with subsidies and tax breaks from the Government they now enjoy.

      • Bob Greenyer

        except that it will be very cheap to extract them as LENR will provide cheap energy and oil has very many uses.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Perhaps it will be cheaper and easier to extract the carbons from air for plastics and chemicals etc. In the future low CO2 might be the concern.

          • Chris the 2nd

            Very easy to make an argument that without industrialisation low CO2 could well be a concern, 280ppm (where we were) is way below optimum for the biosphere.

          • If this is correct we may need every gram of CO2 we can muster (or we would, IF it was a significant ‘greenhouse gas’):

            http://www.sott.net/article/289105-Former-NASA-consultant-climatologist-John-L-Casey-a-radical-shift-in-global-climate-is-underway-30-Year-cold-spell-will-strike-Earth

          • Bob Greenyer

            We already have the infrastructure to make pharmaceuticals, fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides, plastics etc from oil – that is what it should be reserved for – with LENR, it could serve scores of generations – not just the people alive today – and give time for a proper transition to an alternative approach like you suggest.

          • Omega Z

            I agree 100% Bob.

            Once we burn these resources, their gone forever & we’ll need them for a long time. I don’t think people grasp just how much oil the world uses every year. 40 Billion barrels a year. 400 billion in 10 years. They may be in very short supply before the transition is completed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @Omega,

            It is a crime against our decedents that Oil is used for road transport, and we be seen as such by future generations. We need to find a way out of this wanton waste to save our legacy.

    • Brokeeper

      Nice comment you added as well psi2u2. You’re spreading the word. 😉

      • psi2u2

        Thanks. I try to do what I have time and energy for.

    • roseland67

      psi,
      The cure for high oil prices is high oil prices,
      however,
      the same could be said about low oil prices.
      I for one, will not be surprised to see oil prices over $ 100/barrel
      again in 2015/2016.

      • psi2u2

        You may be correct.

        Then again, maybe not.

        It depends *how much* fear of LENR is already influencing the current situation. Obviously, there are many other reasons involved, so it is still speculation that LENR fears are a significant part of the picture. But I have found sifferkol’s arguments to be at least partly persuasive in this regard, and I think this admission from OPEC supports — without proving — his argument that LENR is already having an effect. Like I said, this may be untrue or unprovable – if prices rise significantly over the next year or two that would be the case – but I do regard it as a viable hypothesis and one worth watching.

        A large volume of shorts are still outstanding (I may be using the wrong technical terminology here), so there is internal bearish pressure still not fully factored into the price.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Andrea Rossi mentions that his Team deserves recognition for how hard they have fought and acted, notwithstanding the drag and the insults. How can this be achieved?
    Who else deserves this recognition?
    Rossi also mentions the price at which his/their devices will be on the market – presumably so low that competition will be discouraged from investing any large sums in the research. Or will large sums be needed at all, given the mushrooming of interest worldwide?
    Is the low price going to guarantee a competitive advantage for IH?

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Andrea Rossi mentions that his Team deserves recognition for how hard they have fought and acted, notwithstanding the drag and the insults. How can this be achieved?
    Who else deserves this recognition?
    Rossi also mentions the price at which his/their devices will be on the market – presumably so low that competition will be discouraged from investing any large sums in the research. Or will large sums be needed at all, given the mushrooming of interest worldwide?
    Is the low price going to guarantee a competitive advantage for IH?

  • Gerrit

    Maybe somebody could contact Aldo Proia (of prometeon) and ask what he thinks of the situation.

  • bachcole

    Rossi is currently well ahead. I love him, but I hope that the competition comes on strong. He will has enough time to make a lot of money for himself and his investors.

    • BroKeeper

      I’m thinking with the added competitive pressure IH and Rossi will find a way to lessen the one year public announcement of the customer – perhaps and hopefully at most 6 months.

    • LookMoo

      Rossi’s which for world dominance will be stopped by anti trust laws and compulsory licensing.

  • bachcole

    Rossi is currently well ahead. I love him, but I hope that the competition comes on strong. He will has enough time to make a lot of money for himself and his investors.

    • Brokeeper

      I’m thinking with the added competitive pressure IH and Rossi will find a way to lessen the one year public announcement of the customer – perhaps and hopefully at most 6 months.

    • LookMoo

      Rossi’s which for world dominance will be stopped by anti trust laws and compulsory licensing.

  • Keet Claw C

    Siliconrepublic in Ireland have mentioned this site while reporting on the Bill Gates visit to Italy.http://www.siliconrepublic.com/clean-tech/item/39347-bill-gates-investigating-po

    • Gerrit

      Thanks for the notification. Most of us got the link a few days ago in this post http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/16/report-gates-foundation-close-to-a-1-billion-agreement-fund-enea-for-fusion-research/

      Was that article the first time you read about cold fusion, or have you been following the topic longer ?

      • Keet Claw C

        No I have been following e-catworld every day for over a year. I’ve been aware of CF since the early 2000’s. Missed the comment with the silicon link obviously. Thanks

    • pangoo

      Hey. First time posting.

      I tweeted Colm Gorey (the author) on Friday as he had written about the E-cat on siliconrepublic after the Lugano report.

      I also used this page on the BBC news website to try to fill them in on the current developments in the LENR/cold fusion field. Namely,

      1 The Lugano report on Rossi’s E-cat.

      2 Elforsk’s statements of support and R&D commitments.

      3 Brillouin’s (and Rossi’s) patent application.

      4 Robert Godes meetings with the Finnish parliament committee and Statoil.

      5 Bill Gates meeting at ENEA with LENR/cold fusion researchers.

      This article appeared Monday
      http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29710811
      with a few lines referencing and dismissing cold fusion “as the ramblings of a bunch of crazies.”

      I know…. its a really bad article. I’m not sure he even knew what he was trying to say.
      As a regular reader of the BBC news website I have noticed its gradual decline in quality over the past couple of years. Although there are still some very good articles on the site it seems to be more concerned with image and marketing now unfortunately.
      Or maybe he consulted Brian Cox …….

      • psi2u2

        Welcome, pangoo. Keep up the good work. It is discouraging when you run into journalists just spouting prejudice, but we need to keep trying to get the word out.

        • pangoo

          Thanks. To be honest I find the lack of mainstream media coverage ridiculous more than anything. The reactions are quite obviously present. Legitimate institutions/researchers have investigated them with varying results but all acknowledge the effects.

          Luckily e-catworld is a great resource and well presented. 🙂

          This was the BBC “Have your say” page I messaged them through. http://www.bbc.com/news/contact-us/have-your-say?assetUri=/news/10725415

          I linked to the relevant e-cat world articles in the tweet/messages also and it was linked to in the siliconrepublic article too.

          • psi2u2

            I agree, this site is wonderful.

      • Welcome seconded…

        Cameron’s ‘new nukes at any cost’ agenda means that cold fusion is a verboten topic in the UK. The BBC will be about the last PTB mouthpiece on the planet to admit the reality of LENR. It’s become worse than Pravda in its heyday – there is no investigative reporting whatsoever any more, just endless repetition of whatever party line is dictated to them..

        • BillH

          If you knew how much the Conservative Party dislikes the BBC you would understand how silly that statement is.

          • GreenWin

            The proper acronym for BBC is BP-C. Does anyone honestly doubt the BBC’s rant on cold fusion represents the cowering paranoia of British Petroleum?

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda
          • Cameron’s nuclear crusade is being pushed forward just by him and some close associates in government, for whatever real reasons. What the average tory supporter thinks about this agenda is more or less irrelevant.

            The BBC is an institution which undeviatingly parrots the MSM central line on a large range of topics, in the face of the facts if these inconveniently contradict a prescribed story line. Where this unquestioned ‘consensus’ originates is obscure, but it has little to do with the Conservative party outside the top offices, which may explain the dislike.

      • Keet Claw C

        Perhaps it’s time for someone here to put a fact based video together and share as much as possible. I’ve seen videos which were obviously fake(backup research proved as much) that have generated millions of views. Any takers?

        • Gerrit

          We could start with putting a few facts together on a google drive and work from there.

  • Curbina

    Prometeon was dealing with Defkalion, not with Rossi. This was widely discussed here, and the reason was that Prometeon hired a third party to perform an analysis of the apparatus used to test by Defkalion and they found a way to explain the results without being OU. But this was a completely different set up than Rossi’s.

    • pg

      I think you are getting confused. Prometeon has the licence to distribute the ecat in Italy. They never dealt with Defkalion.
      Luca Gamberale from Defkalion Europe, that had the distribution rights for the Hyperion in Europe, found some problems with the measurements. Now Defkalion Europe does not exist any more

      • Gerrit

        Correct, Prometeon dealt with the e-cat.

        • Omega Z

          It didn’t remain solid. It melted along with the stainless steel which terminated the reaction. Starting at 1000’C when the runaway started, the reaction didn’t terminated until about 1450’C & the continued heating was from the reaction started prior to that. Similar to heat before death. It isn’t instant.

      • Curbina

        Yes you are absolutely correct, my bad, I had them completely mingled in my mind, must be the blood pressure reduction medicine I’m taking, LOL. Thanks for setting me straight 🙂

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I agree with regard to the Saudi-US competition. The Saudis are the best strategists on oil you can imagine. But I think that it is mainly the USA who have an interest in annoying Russia a little bit. Otherwise, they would complain much louder about the current situation.

  • BroKeeper

    Review Sifferkoll’s analytical charts beginning with September 30th.:
    and you may reconsider LENR’s influence.
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I continue to be perplexed about this issue of using gas to run e-cats. With a COP of 3, or perhaps only 6, then yes, a gas ecat makes HUGE sense.

    However, with a COP around 9+ (or 11 as per patent applications), then the “need” or “value” of a gas ecat is much reduced. In other words, the heat from the system should be able to produce the heat and the SAME effect required by gas.

    In other words, the e-cat reactor would be composed of two systems. One to “control” everything and produce electricity.

    Now to be fair, how do you get your hands on a HIGH quality and AFFORDABLE generator that produces say 30,000 watts? And who going to invest the millions to develop such a generator system?

    The KEY missing “link” is a VERY reliable generator system at “reasonable” cost. The BECON sterling generator from inventor Dean Karmen soles this part of the puzzle VERY nicely. Karmen’s design is perfect for converting LENR into heat. I suspect Rossi is NOT AWARE of this piece of the puzzle having been solved with commercial viability. Without this awareness, then in place of investing millions, you have to pursue and invest around the gas-cat road.

    So “part” of the energy plant design would be dedicated to proving the electricity to run the plant.

    With a modest requirement of say 500,000 watts, that would still suggest an electric requirement of 50,000 watts assuming a COP of 10. In many places around the world, you don’t have 50,000 watts, and the cost of that 50,000 watts is rather high.

    However gas fired co-generators are finally hitting the marketplace. Rossi would be best to work on increasing COP, and adopt EXISTING high quality co-generators for electrical needs. This thus suggests that COP has hit a brick wall for Rossi. (or they have a working formula, and now only care about getting to market). In other words, after 10+ years of cooking up and trying “different” recipes, the one they have now is the best soup they can build.

    Perhaps Rossi has a design in which the stimulation of the metal lattice is NOT required, and thus only heat is required.

    In other words, Rossi is RIGHTFULLY cautious about speaking or saying anything about their gas-cat due to competition. The competition would be asking and thinking exactly along the above. (i.e.: how on earth does Rossi make a gas-cat run?). Any kind of answer to this question would revel issues about stimulation and gas loading of the metal lattice involved here.

    Without question, the momentum of LENR is gaining not yearly, not monthly, but now on a weekly bases. It is rather wonderful to have witnessed the computer revolution, or the internet revolution.

    Looks like now we are into the cold fusion revolution.

    Regards,
    Albert k

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is probably a need to not change the current fuel source for retrofitting.

      • BroKeeper

        There is an economical COP as well as an energy COP.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        By fuel source, you mean natural gas, or the fuel inside the e-cat?

        As Rossi noted, if you producing heat, you likely have gas on site. However a gas-ecat would require substantial re-design. So by available fuel source, I assume you mean “on-site” availability of gas and thus I agree.

        However using gas to heat the e-cats is STILL a major re-design, especially if we assume that the stimulation in addition to the heat is provided by the metal heating coils in the e-cat. With gas, those metal coils jobs is now to NOT provide heat but only stimulation. And you now need a setup to move heat from the gas flame to the e-cat rods.

        My suggestion is to simply “add” a commercial co-generator that runs on natural gas to produce the required electricity. That way, you invest and improve the current e-cat design and not have to build + design + maintain TWO DIFFERENT systems.

        And if a COP of 10 is realized in this commercial environment, then co-generation can run on e-cat heat easy without the need for natural gas.

        In other words, you adopt some technology that right now runs on natural gas to produce electricity, but ALSO that same technology could run on e-cat heat.

        Kamren’s sterling engine likes about 800C as a working temperature – ideal for e-cat temperature range(s).

        So while natural gas is likely available on site for current e-cat installations, adopting co-generation allows the SAME e-cat unit to produce heat with electricity, or by simply adding a co-generator unit that provides electricity by consuming that gas source on site.

        The result is you don’t require two different type of e-cat systems. The gas electricity co-generator simply becomes an add-on to existing e-cats that consume electricity.

        Regards,
        Albert K
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • psi2u2

          Interesting observations. Have you communicated these thoughts directly to Rossi. He seems very open always to constructive critique that may lead to alternative constructions of the technology. I suggest you post to his website or email him your ideas, if you have not already done so.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Yes, if a factory is piped for a Gas Furnace, it makes sense to replace that with a Gas driven rather than an Electric driven system.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Unless you use a Bloom Box, I agree.
          But Industrial Heat is not operating in a hypothetical universe. It is operating under industrial business demands and constraints. They must adapt to customer requirements or perish.

    • One theoretical solution would be to connect a small Solar Hydrogen Trends cold fission reactor (breaks oxygen in water into multiple hydrogen atoms) to a sterling generator in your backyard. Hydrogen gas could be burned directly to heat your hot water tank, which would also provide space heating for the entire house. Hydrogen gas could be used on any gas stove with minor modifications. Then your generator would only be needed for lights and electronic equipment and AC. Or, you could just hook the hydrogen gas output to a Bloom fuel cell and run everything on electricity.

      I sent Dean Kamen a email about LENR.

    • Omega Z

      Using gas would be an intermediate use. Once you reach a certain point Electricity produced by E-cats would be used. Gas is simply more practical at this time if it can be effectively harnessed.

      As to Sterling generators, They are not that efficient(about 20% average) & have a short life cycle. Dean Karmen’s intended use of them is due to the fact that there is no infrastructure available where they plan to use them. Little gas or oil cheaply available, but plenty of waste material that can be burnt including cow pies or other dung..

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I continue to be perplexed about this issue of using gas to run e-cats. With a COP of 3, or perhaps only 6, then yes, a gas ecat makes HUGE sense.

    However, with a COP around 9+ (or 11 as per patent applications), then the “need” or “value” of a gas ecat is much reduced. In other words, the heat from the system should be able to produce the heat and the SAME effect required by gas.

    In other words, the e-cat reactor would be composed of two systems. One to “control” everything and produce electricity.

    Now to be fair, how do you get your hands on a HIGH quality and AFFORDABLE generator that produces say 30,000 watts? And who going to invest the millions to develop such a generator system?

    The KEY missing “link” is a VERY reliable generator system at “reasonable” cost. The BECON sterling generator from inventor Dean Karmen soles this part of the puzzle VERY nicely. Karmen’s design is perfect for converting LENR into heat. I suspect Rossi is NOT AWARE of this piece of the puzzle having been solved with commercial viability. Without this awareness, then in place of investing millions, you have to pursue and invest around the gas-cat road.

    So “part” of the energy plant design would be dedicated to proving the electricity to run the plant.

    With a modest requirement of say 500,000 watts, that would still suggest an electric requirement of 50,000 watts assuming a COP of 10. In many places around the world, you don’t have 50,000 watts, and the cost of that 50,000 watts is rather high.

    However gas fired co-generators are finally hitting the marketplace. Rossi would be best to work on increasing COP, and adopt EXISTING high quality co-generators for electrical needs. This thus suggests that COP has hit a brick wall for Rossi. (or they have a working formula, and now only care about getting to market). In other words, after 10+ years of cooking up and trying “different” recipes, the one they have now is the best soup they can build.

    Perhaps Rossi has a design in which the stimulation of the metal lattice is NOT required, and thus only heat is required.

    In other words, Rossi is RIGHTFULLY cautious about speaking or saying anything about their gas-cat due to competition. The competition would be asking and thinking exactly along the above. (i.e.: how on earth does Rossi make a gas-cat run?). Any kind of answer to this question would revel issues about stimulation and gas loading of the metal lattice involved here.

    Without question, the momentum of LENR is gaining not yearly, not monthly, but now on a weekly bases. It is rather wonderful to have witnessed the computer revolution, or the internet revolution.

    Looks like now we are into the cold fusion revolution.

    Regards,
    Albert k

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is probably a need to not change the current fuel source for retrofitting.

      • Brokeeper

        There is an economical COP as well as an energy COP.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        By fuel source, you mean natural gas, or the fuel inside the e-cat?

        As Rossi noted, if you producing heat, you likely have gas on site. However a gas-ecat would require substantial re-design. So by available fuel source, I assume you mean “on-site” availability of gas and thus I agree.

        However using gas to heat the e-cats is STILL a major re-design, especially if we assume that the stimulation in addition to the heat is provided by the metal heating coils in the e-cat. With gas, those metal coils jobs is now to NOT provide heat but only stimulation. And you now need a setup to move heat from the gas flame to the e-cat rods.

        My suggestion is to simply “add” a commercial co-generator that runs on natural gas to produce the required electricity. That way, you invest and improve the current e-cat design and not have to build + design + maintain TWO DIFFERENT systems.

        And if a COP of 10 is realized in this commercial environment, then co-generation can run on e-cat heat easy without the need for natural gas.

        In other words, you adopt some technology that right now runs on natural gas to produce electricity, but ALSO that same technology could run on e-cat heat.

        Kamren’s sterling engine likes about 800C as a working temperature – ideal for e-cat temperature range(s).

        So while natural gas is likely available on site for current e-cat installations, adopting co-generation allows the SAME e-cat unit to produce heat with electricity, or by simply adding a co-generator unit that provides electricity by consuming that gas source on site.

        The result is you don’t require two different type of e-cat systems. The gas electricity co-generator simply becomes an add-on to existing e-cats that consume electricity.

        Regards,
        Albert K
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • psi2u2

          Interesting observations. Have you communicated these thoughts directly to Rossi? He seems very open always to constructive critique that may lead to alternative constructions of the technology. I suggest you post to his website or email him your ideas, if you have not already done so.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Yes, if a factory is piped for a Gas Furnace, it makes sense to replace that with a Gas driven rather than an Electric driven system.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Unless you use a Bloom Box, I agree.
          But Industrial Heat is not operating in a hypothetical universe. It is operating under industrial business demands and constraints. They must adapt to customer requirements or perish.

    • One theoretical solution would be to connect a small Solar Hydrogen Trends cold fission reactor (breaks oxygen in water into multiple hydrogen atoms) to a sterling generator in your backyard. Hydrogen gas could be burned directly to heat your hot water tank, which would also provide space heating for the entire house. Hydrogen gas could be used on any gas stove with minor modifications. Then your generator would only be needed for lights and electronic equipment and AC. Or, you could just hook the hydrogen gas output to a Bloom fuel cell and run everything on electricity.

      I sent Dean Kamen a email about LENR.

      • Stephen Haigh

        I dont think id want a hydrogen stove!

        btw chris why do you seem to be the one always bigging up SHT?

        • They are either all crazy liars or they have achieved the greatest invention in energy of the last 100 years. Their life records don’t show any signs of any of them being insane or stupid, but rather very intelligent and well educated with a record of positive scientific advancement. The name of their company is terrible, but that is a mistake that occurred because of cultural differences. Most of the company staff are immigrants, which might make them suspect to some people, but not me. Their product is wildly new and original and goes against the known laws of physics, but does that make it unreal? Do we know everything about matter and energy? The logic of the situation is that the device is real. I am excited about the possibilities, but am aware there could be some unknown factor that could make it all unusable. But it has had two tests that were independent with the caveat that the testers did not look inside the reactor. Any serious investor should demand to see everything inside the device before handing over a check. I cannot believe that their staff of about a dozen people could all go crazy and get this far with nothing but a bluff and a magic trick. The odds are that it is real, so I am excited about that, but await proof beyond doubt, which should come soon, either positive or negative.

          • bachcole

            Everything that you say makes perfect sense. But I will be withholding my jumping for joy until they start selling hydrogen or energy and making a bundle.

            Roger

    • Omega Z

      Using gas would be an intermediate use. Once you reach a certain point Electricity produced by E-cats would be used. Gas is simply more practical at this time if it can be effectively harnessed.

      As to Sterling generators, They are not that efficient(about 20% average) & have a short life cycle. Dean Karmen’s intended use of them is due to the fact that there is no infrastructure available where they plan to use them. Little gas or oil cheaply available, but plenty of waste material that can be burnt including cow pies or other dung..

  • bfast

    Rossi, “Thanks to the work of my Team, LENR, that 5 years ago were very “low” … have gained momentum at high level.” This is a very humble statement on Rossi’s part. He, and to some extent Forcardi, is responsible for this momentum. His team came along well after Rossi started this fire.

    “It’s interesting to see Rossi speaking once again about ‘economies of scale’” Economies of scale are soooo beside the point. LENR, when it breaks out of the box, will be bigger than the internet. It’ll make thousands, nay millions of people rich. Rossi will not be able to own the space, but I very much expect and hope that he will get a billionaire’s portion of the pie.

    • LCD

      I really don’t know why this isn’t the case but 1 billion times a 1000 dollar ecat kit (a lot less liability) is a trillion dollars. Cost is maybe 100 bucks. IH would overnight become the richest company in the world.

      Just ask apple.

      • BroKeeper

        It was $1K/1KW but likely decrease to those levels once commercial competition starts..

        • LCD

          Well the thought is that if everybody would just buy one kit and then figure out the rest themselves, that’s still a butt load of units. That is they use it to build their own version.

          Then they could still sell the pre made powder.

    • Axil Axil

      Let’s get real here. Rossi’s current product is hard to control and therefore is inherently unsafe suited only for industrial use. When the competition produces a failsafe home product that can be installed anywhere (like a gas boiler) then that will be the product of choice in the LENR marketplace.

      • psi2u2

        You don’t know how difficult it is to control or what developments may be in the pipeline that will make it more controllable than it is now. The Lugano test ran for 32 days in apparently quite stable mode. Is there anyone else who has demonstrated anything close to that so far?

        The evidence for incremental but overall significant improvements in the control process seems impressive, at least for those who accept that the report authors’ conclusions were essentially correct, despite the disputed numbers.

        • Omega Z

          Yes, the Lugano test was very stable, But, It only produced COP>3 & ran at 3.3Kw. Not 10Kw. You need the on/off mouse mode plus liquid cooling to make it really useful & this brings into play the much more complex control system.

    • psi2u2

      He knows that he needs to give as much credit as possible to others. That is how you build a team. His humility, imho, is both real and strategic.

    • psi2u2

      You may be correct.

      Then again, maybe not.

      It depends *how much* fear of LENR is already influencing the current situation. Obviously, there are many other reasons involved, so it is still speculation that LENR fears are a significant part of the picture. But I have found sifferkol’s arguments to be at least partly persuasive in this regard, and I think this admission from OPEC supports — without proving — his argument that LENR is already having an effect. Like I said, this may be untrue or unprovable – if prices rise significantly over the next year or two that would be the case – but I do regard it as a viable hypothesis and one worth watching.

  • bfast

    Rossi, “Thanks to the work of my Team, LENR, that 5 years ago were very “low” … have gained momentum at high level.” This is a very humble statement on Rossi’s part. He, and to some extent Forcardi, is responsible for this momentum. His team came along well after Rossi started this fire.

    “It’s interesting to see Rossi speaking once again about ‘economies of scale’” Economies of scale are soooo beside the point. LENR, when it breaks out of the box, will be bigger than the internet. It’ll make thousands, nay millions of people rich. Rossi will not be able to own the space, but I very much expect and hope that he will get a billionaire’s portion of the pie.

    • Axil Axil

      Let’s get real here. Rossi’s current product is hard to control and therefore is inherently unsafe suited only for industrial use. When the competition produces a failsafe home product that can be installed anywhere (like a gas boiler) then that will be the product of choice in the LENR marketplace.

      • psi2u2

        You don’t know how difficult it is to control or what developments may be in the pipeline that will make it more controllable than it is now. The Lugano test ran for 32 days in apparently quite stable mode. Is there anyone else who has demonstrated anything close to that so far?

        The evidence for incremental but overall highly significant improvements in the control process – made over a rather short period of time, all things considered – seems impressive, at least for those who accept that the report authors’ conclusions were essentially correct, despite the disputed numbers.

        • Omega Z

          Yes, the Lugano test was very stable, But, It only produced COP>3 & ran at 3.3Kw. Not 10Kw. You need the on/off mouse mode plus liquid cooling to make it really useful & this brings into play the much more complex control system.

    • psi2u2

      He knows that he needs to give as much credit as possible to others. That is how you build a team. His humility, imho, is both real and strategic.

  • LCD

    I really don’t know why this isn’t the case but 1 billion times a 1000 dollar ecat kit (a lot less liability) is a trillion dollars. Cost is maybe 100 bucks. IH would overnight become the richest company in the world.

    Just ask apple.

    • Brokeeper

      It was $1K/1KW but likely decrease to those levels once commercial competition starts..

      • LCD

        Well the thought is that if everybody would just buy one kit and then figure out the rest themselves, that’s still a butt load of units. That is they use it to build their own version.

        Then they could still sell the pre made powder.

  • Ophelia Rump

    A little bloom box magic would be a very cool way to adapt gas and keep the same control system.

  • Gerrit

    Thanks for the notification. Most of us got the link a few days ago in this post http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/16/report-gates-foundation-close-to-a-1-billion-agreement-fund-enea-for-fusion-research/

    Was that article the first time you read about cold fusion, or have you been following the topic longer ?

  • mecatfish

    A gas activated e cat may not have the same safety requriements as an electric one. UL might actually allow residential units to be sold if Rossi can get them categorized as a gas barbecue grill.
    If the control box lies outside the main heating unit, then the controller only needs to go through UL.
    That is why electric toy and wheelchair manufacturers dont have the charger on the product. It bypasses a lot of testing required by UL. I will be looking for my E-B-Q next summer.

    • psi2u2

      Very interesting comment. Thanks.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Mecatfish……I will write Rossi on that one, see how he responds, thanks for the info.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        This was my question and Dr. Rossi’s answer:

        Bernie Koppenhofer

        November 19th, 2014 at 4:13 PM

        Dr. Rossi: It has been suggested safety certification will be a lot easier for the Gas Cat than for the Electric Cat. Is this true?

        Andrea Rossi

        November 19th, 2014 at 7:57 PM

        Bernie Koppenhofer:
        No, it is not true. The point is not the fuel.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

  • Gerrit

    I cannot understand how a gas driven e-cat works. How can an exothermic reaction be controlled by a thermal input, when the total thermal output is larger than the thermal input.

    What can we make of that?

    1) the gas is needed not just for providing heat, but also to provide C and H atoms.
    2) the heat is needed in an area that produced not heat, but radiation which thermalises somewhere else.

    • Jan Nie

      This disinfo about gas fueled LENR is special disinfo.
      Proof: Some 2 years ago Rossi wrote about he draw gas burners for his E-Cat.
      E-Cat/Hot-Cat needed this electric field/EM shield/EM pulses.
      Very similar to HephaHeat.

      • Fortyniner

        What disinfo? Without knowing what is proposed, your assertion is meaningless.

        Hephaheat is a simple 50Hz induction storage heater designed for industrial processes, not some wondrous O/U device.

    • Warthog

      “How can an exothermic reaction be controlled by a thermal input, when the total thermal output is larger than the thermal input.”

      This garbage keeps getting brought up. The answer is that it is a question of three factors, not just one. The heat produced by the E-Cat PLUS the heat from the “control heater” is IN BALANCE with the COOLING from the thermal transfer fluid. If the heat input from the E-Cat increases, and the heat input from the “control heater” is cut back WITHOUT changing the flow of the heat transfer cooling, the reactor will COOL DOWN.

      So yes, an exothermic reaction CAN be controlled by a thermal input.

    • This is something I don’t understand too. If you could manage that you don’t come below a specific temperature of the core, while the fluid you want to heat to produce steam is flowing around the reactor, the reaction should keep going.

    • Obvious

      My suspicion is that the IR-generating radiation exits the reaction at a ^4 rate, so both gas and electric versions require input heat, or the reaction cools and shuts down after a while (after a bit of Heat After Death winds down).
      The reactors are all designed to eliminate heat as fast as possible, to avoid runaway, so the reaction-radiated heat cannot feed on itself.
      My guess is that the gas version requires the heat input very close to the reaction area.
      The electric version actually blocks heat loss from the reaction to some degree, by virtue of the windings (the shadows). The resistors radiate heat out and in when turned on, and absorb then re-release heat from the reaction when off. The electric version is just effective enough at radiating heat that the off time is enough to allow the heat to not accumulate dangerously in the resistor coils while the reaction continues.

    • Axil Axil

      An exothermic reaction come from nuclear fusion. Heat is converted to powerful EMF which disrupts the nucleus.

      As an aside, I just read that CERN is thinking about replacing their 17 mile diameter proton ring with a Wakefield accelerator that is 30 cms long. Like the E Cat, a Wakefield accelerator uses nanoplasma to accelerate particles. Such innovative nano-engineering is how the ITER can be replaced by a E-Cat

      • GreenWin

        ITER is a 30 year old diplomacy project based on 50 year old science. Both are badly out of date.

    • Fortyniner

      It’s also remotely possible that an IR source initially needs to be external to the Ni (i.e. coming from the casing) in order to provide the input energy needed to drive surface phonons.

      “Similar to surface plasmons in the visible region, surface phonons can couple efficiently to infrared light in micron-sized antennas made of polar materials.” http://digital.csic.es/handle/10261/44140

      This also looks relevant: “Infrared absorption by surface phonons and surface plasmons in small crystals” http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0039602873901854

      • Fortyniner

        Rossi once tried to explain the input from the ‘mouse’ as needing not to ‘overexcite’ the ‘cat’, which would be consistent with the idea that over-pumping surface phonon build-up might result in a delayed but uncontrollable reaction, i.e., external thermal (+ EM?) priming probably needs to stop at some point before the reaction proper begins, so that it then stays below the self-perpetuating level.

        • Hi all

          I think it is best to think of it as analogous to a car backfiring.

          Kind Regards walker

      • GreenWin

        Interesting. I have seen similar references to the use of laser to jumpstart surface plasmons. The entire field of nanoplasmonics is expanding rapidly. From what I have read, the DGT reactor could use pulsed laser instead of the arc spark system they appear to use now.

    • Freethinker

      My ¢2 worth:

      If you consider the ECAT just tested, and described in the TPR2, there is a large amount of AMPs going in (40-50A) likely mostly generating heat. There is also a a part of it that act as EMF generator, but if that EMF generating can be done equally well with far fewer amps, then the gas burner could do the heating. But your points are not so terribly strange. There could be some added value using gas not so obvious at first glance.

      • US_Citizen71

        I think the gas power would make it easier for retrofit. If a manufacturer is currently using a lot of heat in their manufacturing process it is likely it is currently being provide by gas instead of electricity. Adding the infrastructure to provide the E-Cat with electricity to replace several megawatts of heat would require new wiring, power panels, likely a new connection from the grid and the labor to install it all. But to heat the E-Cat with gas you just need a plumber and some pipe, since you will be using less gas in the end.

        • Freethinker

          Yes. Basically, you have gas energy system, but you need more, less costly juice, add an Ecat and you get a 3-11 increase in heat power output… Some plumbing and 1/11 – 1/3 in fuel cost.

        • psi2u2

          Good point. What do you want to bet that some of the first customers fit this profile?

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is simple the temperature does not control the reaction, it maintains the minimum temperature threshold for it. It initiates the reaction and at most sets the bottom limit.

  • Gerrit

    I cannot understand how a gas driven e-cat works. How can an exothermic reaction be controlled by a thermal input, when the total thermal output is larger than the thermal input.

    What can we make of that?

    1) the gas is needed not just for providing heat, but also to provide C and H atoms.
    2) the heat is needed in an area that produced not heat, but radiation which thermalises somewhere else.

    • Jan Nie

      This disinfo about gas fueled LENR is special disinfo.
      Proof: Some 2 years ago Rossi wrote about he draw gas burners for his E-Cat.
      E-Cat/Hot-Cat needed this electric field/EM shield/EM pulses.
      Very similar to HephaHeat.

      • What disinfo? Without knowing what is proposed, your assertion is meaningless.

        Hephaheat is a simple 50Hz induction storage heater designed for industrial processes, and is not related to e-cat in any way.

    • Mark Underwood

      Apparently Rossi has said in the past that the eCat required AC power and would not work with DC. Yet DC works just as well as AC at heating. So I assumed there was something peculiar about AC current that stimulated the reaction. But now Rossi is talking about a gas eCat, which is incongruous with the supposed AC necessity. I’m scratching my head about what Dr Rossi is serving up: red herring or real steak.

      • There’s nothing to indicate that the ‘gas cat’ won’t still need AC or modulated power input to drive internal EM coils or similar. Its just that the power required for this function is probably less significant than heater current, relative to output.

        • Omega Z

          Without providing much in details, Rossi did state that electricity was still needed, but much less while using gas.

      • NT

        Rossi, replied to my similar question on his blog the other day, YES, the gas cat requires a small electrical input – likely AC (my assumption)…

    • Warthog

      “How can an exothermic reaction be controlled by a thermal input, when the total thermal output is larger than the thermal input.”

      This garbage keeps getting brought up. The answer is that it is a question of three factors, not just one. The heat produced by the E-Cat PLUS the heat from the “control heater” is IN BALANCE with the COOLING from the thermal transfer fluid. If the heat input from the E-Cat increases, and the heat input from the “control heater” is cut back WITHOUT changing the flow of the heat transfer cooling, the reactor will COOL DOWN.

      So yes, an exothermic reaction CAN be controlled by a thermal input.

    • This is something I don’t understand too. If you could manage that you don’t come below a specific temperature of the core, while the fluid you want to heat to produce steam is flowing around the reactor, the reaction should keep going.

    • Obvious

      My suspicion is that the IR-generating radiation exits the reaction at a ^4 rate, so both gas and electric versions require input heat, or the reaction cools and shuts down after a while (after a bit of Heat After Death winds down).
      The reactors are all designed to eliminate heat as fast as possible, to avoid runaway, so the reaction-radiated heat cannot feed on itself.
      My guess is that the gas version requires the heat input very close to the reaction area.
      The electric version actually blocks heat loss from the reaction to some degree, by virtue of the windings (the shadows). The resistors radiate heat out and in when turned on, and absorb then re-release heat from the reaction when off. The electric version is just effective enough at radiating heat that the off time is enough to allow the heat to not accumulate dangerously in the resistor coils while the reaction continues.

    • Axil Axil

      An exothermic reaction come from nuclear fusion. Heat is converted to powerful EMF which disrupts the nucleus.

      As an aside, I just read that CERN is thinking about replacing their 17 mile diameter proton ring with a Wakefield accelerator that is 30 cms long. Like the E Cat, a Wakefield accelerator uses nanoplasma to accelerate particles. Such innovative nano-engineering is how the ITER can be replaced by a E-Cat

      • GreenWin

        ITER is a 30 year old diplomacy project based on 50 year old science. Both are badly out of date.

    • It’s also remotely possible that an IR source initially needs to be external to the Ni (i.e. coming from the casing) in order to provide the input energy needed to drive surface phonons.

      “Similar to surface plasmons in the visible region, surface phonons can couple efficiently to infrared light in micron-sized antennas made of polar materials.” http://digital.csic.es/handle/10261/44140

      This also looks potentially relevant: “Infrared absorption by surface phonons and surface plasmons in small crystals” http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0039602873901854

      • Rossi once tried to explain the input from the ‘mouse’ as needing not to ‘overexcite’ the ‘cat’, which would be consistent with the idea that over-pumping surface phonon build-up might result in a delayed but uncontrollable reaction, i.e., external thermal (+ EM?) priming probably needs to stop at some point before the reaction proper begins, in order to avoid a positive feedback loop and resultant thermal runaway.

        • Hi all

          I think it is best to think of it as analogous to a car backfiring.

          Kind Regards walker

      • GreenWin

        Interesting. I have seen similar references to the use of laser to jumpstart surface plasmons. The entire field of nanoplasmonics is expanding rapidly. From what I have read, the DGT reactor could use pulsed laser instead of the arc spark system they appear to use now.

    • Freethinker

      My ¢2 worth:

      If you consider the ECAT just tested, and described in the TPR2, there is a large amount of AMPs going in (40-50A) likely mostly generating heat. There is also a a part of it that act as EMF generator, but if that EMF generating can be done equally well with far fewer amps, then the gas burner could do the heating. But your points are not so terribly strange. There could be some added value using gas not so obvious at first glance.

      • US_Citizen71

        I think the gas power would make it easier for retrofit. If a manufacturer is currently using a lot of heat in their manufacturing process it is likely it is currently being provide by gas instead of electricity. Adding the infrastructure to provide the E-Cat with electricity to replace several megawatts of heat would require new wiring, power panels, likely a new connection from the grid and the labor to install it all. But to heat the E-Cat with gas you just need a plumber and some pipe, since you will be using less gas in the end.

        • Freethinker

          Yes. Basically, you have gas energy system, but you need more, less costly juice, add an Ecat and you get a 3-11 increase in heat power output… Some plumbing and 1/11 – 1/3 in fuel cost.

        • psi2u2

          Good point. What do you want to bet that some of the first customers fit this profile?

    • Ophelia Rump

      It is simple the temperature does not control the reaction, it maintains the minimum temperature threshold for it. It initiates the reaction and at most sets the bottom limit.

  • Mark Underwood

    Who exactly does Rossi regard as the competition, competition that is now ‘very serious’ and ‘very powerful’. Does he have in mind ENEA, which Bill Gates visited recently?

    • I don’t know but if I were him I’d be very worried about Brillouin and anybody that Gates decides to get behind (if that’s someone different). In the last little while Brillouin has dropped hints of COP = 100, and been popping up in interesting places talking to interesting people.

      Nichenergy, Clean Planet and Lenuco are all within one year of commercializable prototypes, if you can believe what they say, and could also be considered serious competition if fully funded,

      If significant amounts of money start to flood this sector then there will be serious competition from many directions.

      • Ophelia Rump

        COP 100 would probably be easy to attain if they have mastered controlling the temperature of the reaction in a molten state. Recall that earlier Rossi had issues with melting through the reactors. This could only have happened if the reaction continues when the core is molten, otherwise it would never become hot enough. If the reaction stopped when the core becomes molten it would stop and cool without melt through. The efficiency rapidly becomes greater at higher temperatures. So efficiency is a factor of cooling and temperature, and temperature control/stability.

        From the Lugano Report.
        “In a few minutes, the reactor body
        reached a temperature close to 1400°C. Subsequent calculation proved that increasing the input by roughly
        100 watts had caused an increase of about 700 watts in power emitted.”

        Melting point of nickel 1,455°C

        • Axil Axil

          Control is the proper separation of heat pumping and heat generation

          • Ophelia Rump

            Yes, there is heat generated, heat dissipated, and temperature stability. A three ball juggle. Without temperature stability you could have a runaway reaction which would result in a melt through. If a melt through were not possible to extinguish a runaway, you would have an explosion at some point.

            It might be possible to just balance heat generated and heat dissipated, but that gives you a promise of an unstable and uncontrolled output volume, and possibly an unstable output temperature too.

          • You don’t want to activate the LENR with heat. Heat can be used at the beginning, but after the first day you should have a more efficient means to keep the reaction going. Defkalion considered using lasers but figured that would be too expensive. So, they decided to use a spark to break H2 into H1, thus eliminating any need for a catalyst in the fuel. The energy required to make the sparks is small, so they hopefully will have a very high COP in their production model. The Solar Hydrogen Trends reactor is cold fission. They don’t create heat; The break big atoms into multiple small atoms,…hydrogen gas. Their lead scientist has a background of “research included study of fast processes in liquids and acoustical resonance; physical phenomena associated with acoustic waves in water solutions from infrasound to hypersound, and the use of acoustics as a tool to investigate other significant phenomena.” Since their reactor stays at room temperature, they can attach all the sonic and electromagnetic stimulation equipment they want to the reactor without fear of heat damage. Loading water into a metal lattice, or perhaps just the oxygen content of water, and then stimulate the lattice with electromagnetic waves and acoustic waves may be the way they do it. This creates electric currents and nanomagnetic fields inside the lattice and you get a snowball effect. They claim they were looking for a way to extract precious metals, probably from a water solution, and produced hydrogen gas by accident. The accidental factor give them credibility in my mind. No sane person would suspect you could do such a thing. It had to be an accident.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If it were me I would maintain the bottom temperature limit with mass.
            Once the device heated the mass, you just keep the rate of cooling below the capacity of the mass to maintain a stable temperature. If your reactor self extinguishes after warmup, you have insufficient thermal mass.

        • Omega Z

          Ophelia,

          The melting point of nickel is 1455°C. Once it melts, the reaction stops. It doesn’t work in a molten state. COP can’t be increased by trying to increase the temperature beyond 1400°C.

          However, by using a fluid pulling heat from the Hot-cat while maintaining a temperature around 1400°C or there about, Cop would increase as with the Kilowatt output. With all the ins & outs with wet & dry systems, People are getting confused with the COP situation.

          I doubt that many realize that the Hot-cat ran in it’s dry state is only producing about 3.3Kw, Not 10Kw. The LT 10Kw E-cat actually produces 6.7Kw more then the hot-cat. That’s the difference between a wet or dry system.

          Nor did they seem to notice that the 1st & 2nd test report both produce similar COP numbers, but the Steel case cat temps were 800°/850°C and the much smaller Alumina ceramic was 1260°/1400°C.

          I have no doubt had the on/off mouse system been in operation, the Hot-cat can exceed COP>10 & with a liquid heat absorption, the rumors sometime back of COP=18 may be near to reality.
          That said, While direct power appears very stable, the later would be much more complex to control.

          • Observer

            The reactor that melted down during the 2013 tests released ~ 1 MW of power for ~ 10 seconds, reaching a temperature of over 2000C. How the reactants put out that kind of temperature and power and remained a solid powder while doing so is a fascinating question.

          • Omega Z

            It didn’t remain solid. It melted along with the stainless steel which terminated the reaction. Starting at 1000’C when the runaway started, the reaction didn’t terminated until about 1450’C & the continued heating was from the reaction started prior to that. Similar to heat before death. It isn’t instant.

          • Observer

            If the reaction stops at 1450C, then what form of energy did it produce to continue to raise the temperature to 2000C? Is X-ray emission between 50KeV and 150KeV consistent with the materials and measured external emissions of the latest test?

      • The COP 100 was wild speculation on his part. The reported achieved COP from that company, as far as I know, has been closer to 3.

        • Ophelia Rump

          The patent applications states 11.x without using the COP doubling Cat and Mouse.

          • COP 100 refers to Brillouin’s reactor as publicly confirmed by Godes in response to a direct question.

        • It wasn’t speculation. Godes personally confirmed the rumor of COP = 100 when someone asked him about it directly. He may be wrong or he may be lying but he’s in a position to know.

          On Edit: See http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2014:09:10#Brillouin_.7E100x_OU

          • Mark Underwood

            Interesting. Could you direct me to the source of Godes confirming the COP 100, thanks.

          • Click the link in my post.

          • More wild speculation. He says it may not be stable with a COP that high. He would not know because he has not achieved a COP that high. His reactor is being tested at SRI International and they report only a low COP, but with very good control. The only two companies with convincing high COP reports are Defkalion and Solar Hydrogen Trends. Defkalion achieved over COP 20 on a regular basis with their old style chemically activated reactor, which they have now abandoned in favor of a spark activated reactor of unknown COP. Their publicly demonstrated test spark reactor was set up for ease of reaction observation, not for high COP, so we don’t know what the COP of the production version will be like. Solar Hydrogen Trends has two recorded third party tests that showed a COP of over 1,300 on the first test and over 1,400 on the second. Did all the staff at Solar Hydrogen Trends go crazy and just stick a bottle of hydrogen gas into a fake device to fool people for a day, but spend the rest of their lives in disgrace? I think they are too smart for that, so I remain optimistic with my fingers crossed. Trust but verify.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Whatever PESWiki is, it is on the same blog page with some 9/11 deniers. I can’t take it seriously.

          • psi2u2

            I recommend studying 911 events from a scientific frame of reference, starting with asking yourself why Building 7 collapsed. I realize this is off topic, and not the place for any extended discussion, but since you mentioned it….. 🙂

            In a more general sense, yes Peswiki has a problem with getting overenthusiastic about things that later prove to be hokum. Sterling does his best to separate out scammers and the self-promoters, but in the end, there are so many available that it’s hard for him to avoid them in trying to cover such a complex topic as fringe energy production. But there is still intriguing content worth reading there.

          • Anon2012_2014

            9/11 – The airplanes hit the buildings. One of my friends was outside and saw the second airplane hit the second building and was almost killed by debris. I don’t need to research any more as the probability of a government arranged demolition coinciding with two 757’s hitting the buildings is ZERO.

            Whatever PESWiki is they lose half the audience with information presented that is worthy of supermarket gossip tabloids.

          • psi2u2

            Of course the airplanes hit towers 1 and 2. Whether that was the full reason for their collapse is another matter, and over 1500 architects and engineers tell us it was not. More importantly, please reread my post and do some research and see if you can explain why building 7, not hit by an airplane, came down at freefall speed, as if detonated, later that afternoon. I think that if you spend a couple of hours studying this question you will agree with me that we still don’t have the full story of what actually happened that day or why it happened.

            Regarding your point about mixing stories, I completely agree – which is one reason I would prefer not to carry out an extended discussion on this topic here. We are agreed that, whatever the facts of 911 (which it appears we don’t agree on), it is better to focus on one paradigm shift/out of the box topic at a time. Peswiki would be much more credible, we agree, if Sterling avoided the need to endorse all the “alternative” theories he holds and stuck to following new developments in energy.

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

            Nobody is going to agree with dissent, because there is a ‘comfortably permitted’ truth, the Bible (the permitted Bible), and then there is a question mark stuck in the head of some whose practical sense (the heretics) keeps nagging:
            How can, not one, but TWO buildings collapse perfectly vertically, with the cause of collapse given by an aircraft impact, and the fuel burning, at the top tier of the towers? A third building collapsed not even apparently hit by anything.
            http://911review.org/WTC/concrete-core.html
            http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/world_trade_center/

            Questions and mass mind-games…

          • Omega Z

            I think COP=100 is a future possibility, not a fact at this time.
            This is also a possibility of future versions of the E-cat.

    • builditnow

      A very simple explanation could be that the heat loss from the reactor is designed to exceed the Cold Fusion energy generated, without some supplemental heat, the reactor will cool down and the Cold Fusion will also shut down as Cold Fusion temperature related, increasing with temperature. This way it could be possible to control the reactor by adding 10% to 20% of the energy required to maintain the desired temperature. EMF from the current could also be needed but this could be produced with much much smaller amounts of energy.
      Gas could be used for most of the 10% to 20% energy to add.
      If this explanation is true, other mechanisms could be used to control the heat loss once the reactor is up to temperature, that way far less energy could be used and the COP should be able to be more like 50 or greater. The fact that COP is reported in a patent to be 11 does go against my simple explanation. (But Rossi might be hiding a much higher COP to keep competitors at bay).

      • Axil Axil

        What Rossi is missing in his design is a heat sink that can mitigate a meltdown level heat burst of 1 megawatt in 10 seconds. Such a heat sink could be designed using a lithium based heat pipe approach to a lithium based high capacity heat storage reservoir.

    • GreenWin

      Mark, it is not competition from other LENR startups Rossi is concerned by. It is huge investment and product development from G8+ governments. What government will not create a department of LENR energy? We are at the very beginning of an entire new field of science and commerce. Once the iron curtain around LENR is lifted – it will be a commercial free for all.

  • psi2u2

    Welcome, pangoo. Keep up the good work. It is discouraging when you run into journalists just spouting prejudice, but we need to keep trying to get the word out.

  • I don’t know but if I were him I’d be very worried about Brillouin and anybody that Gates decides to get behind (if that’s someone different). In the last little while Brillouin has dropped hints of COP = 100, and been popping up in interesting places talking to interesting people.

    Nichenergy, Clean Planet and Lenuco are all within one year of commercializable prototypes, if you can believe what they say, and could also be considered serious competition if fully funded,

    If significant amounts of money start to flood this sector then there will be serious competition from many directions.

    • Ophelia Rump

      COP 100 would probably be easy to attain if they have mastered controlling the temperature of the reaction in a molten state. Recall that earlier Rossi had issues with melting through the reactors. This could only have happened if the reaction continues when the core is molten, otherwise it would never become hot enough. If the reaction stopped when the core becomes molten it would stop and cool without melt through. The efficiency rapidly becomes greater at higher temperatures. So efficiency is a factor of cooling and temperature control.

      • Axil Axil

        Control is the proper separation of heat pumping and heat generation

        • Ophelia Rump

          Yes, there is heat generated, heat dissipated, and temperature stability. A three ball juggle.

          • You don’t want to activate the LENR with heat. Heat can be used at the beginning, but after the first day you should have a more efficient means to keep the reaction going. Defkalion considered using lasers but figured that would be too expensive. So, they decided to use a spark to break H2 into H1, thus eliminating any need for a catalyst in the fuel. The energy required to make the sparks is small, so they hopefully will have a very high COP in their production model. The Solar Hydrogen Trends reactor is cold fission. They don’t create heat; The break big atoms into multiple small atoms,…hydrogen gas. Their lead scientist has a background of “research included study of fast processes in liquids and acoustical resonance; physical phenomena associated with acoustic waves in water solutions from infrasound to hypersound, and the use of acoustics as a tool to investigate other significant phenomena.” Since their reactor stays at room temperature, they can attach all the sonic and electromagnetic stimulation equipment they want to the reactor without fear of heat damage. Loading water into a metal lattice, or perhaps just the oxygen content of water, and then stimulate the lattice with electromagnetic waves and acoustic waves may be the way they do it. This creates electric currents and nanomagnetic fields inside the lattice and you get a snowball effect. They claim they were looking for a way to extract precious metals, probably from a water solution, and produced hydrogen gas by accident. The accidental factor give them credibility in my mind. No sane person would suspect you could do such a thing. It had to be an accident.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If it were me I would maintain the bottom temperature limit with mass.
            Once the device heated the mass, you just keep the rate of cooling below the capacity of the mass to maintain a stable temperature. If your reactor self extinguishes after warmup, you have insufficient thermal mass.

      • Omega Z

        Ophelia,

        The melting point of nickel is 1455°C. Once it melts, the reaction stops. It doesn’t work in a molten state. COP can’t be increased by trying to increase the temperature beyond 1400°C.

        However, by using a fluid pulling heat from the Hot-cat while maintaining a temperature around 1400°C or there about, Cop would increase as with the Kilowatt output. With all the ins & outs with wet & dry systems, People are getting confused with the COP situation.

        I doubt that many realize that the Hot-cat ran in it’s dry state is only producing about 3.3Kw, Not 10Kw. The LT 10Kw E-cat actually produces 6.7Kw more then the hot-cat. That’s the difference between a wet or dry system.

        Nor did they seem to notice that the 1st & 2nd test report both produce similar COP numbers, but the Steel case cat temps were 800°/850°C and the much smaller Alumina ceramic was 1260°/1400°C.

        I have no doubt had the on/off mouse system been in operation, the Hot-cat can exceed COP>10 & with a liquid heat absorption, the rumors sometime back of COP=18 may be near to reality.
        That said, While direct power appears very stable, the later would be much more complex to control.

    • The COP 100 was wild speculation on his part. The reported achieved COP from that company, as far as I know, has been closer to 3.

      • Ophelia Rump

        The patent applications states 11.x without using the COP doubling Cat and Mouse.

        • COP 100 refers to Brillouiin’s reactor as publicly confirmed by Godes in response to a direct question.

        • GreenWin

          Mark, it is not competition from other LENR startups Rossi is concerned by. It is huge investment and product development from G8+ governments. What government will not create a department of LENR energy? We are at the very beginning of an entire new field of science and commerce. Once the iron curtain around LENR is lifted – it will be a commercial free for all.

      • It wasn’t speculation. Godes personally confirmed the rumor of COP = 100 when someone asked him about it directly. He may be wrong or he may be lying but he’s in a position to know.

        • More wild speculation. He says it may not be stable with a COP that high. He would not know because he has not achieved a COP that high. His reactor is being tested at SRI International and they report only a low COP, but with very good control. The only two companies with convincing high COP reports are Defkalion and Solar Hydrogen Trends. Defkalion achieved over COP 20 on a regular basis with their old style chemically activated reactor, which they have now abandoned in favor of a spark activated reactor of unknown COP. Their publicly demonstrated test spark reactor was set up for ease of reaction observation, not for high COP, so we don’t know what the COP of the production version will be like. Solar Hydrogen Trends has two recorded third party tests that showed a COP of over 1,300 on the first test and over 1,400 on the second. Did all the staff at Solar Hydrogen Trends go crazy and just stick a bottle of hydrogen gas into a fake device to fool people for a day, but spend the rest of their lives in disgrace? I think they are too smart for that, so I remain optimistic with my fingers crossed. Trust but verify.

        • Omega Z

          I think COP=100 is a future possibility, not a fact at this time.
          This is also a possibility of future versions of the E-cat.

  • Fortyniner

    There’s nothing to indicate that the ‘gas cat’ won’t still need modulated power input to drive internal EM coils or similar. Its just that the power required for this function may be less significant relative to output.

    • Omega Z

      Without providing much in details, Rossi did state that electricity was still needed, but much less while using gas.

  • Fortyniner

    Welcome seconded…

    The BBC will be about the last PTB mouthpiece on the planet to admit the reality of cold fusion. It’s become worse than Pravda in its heyday – there is no investigative reporting whatsoever any more, just endless repetition of whatever party line is dictated to them..

  • HHiram

    I’m pretty sure Rossi means “leaking” when he wrote “lacking”

  • bitplayer

    When LENR breaks out, Rossi’s lab notebooks alone will be worth millions of dollars. His place in heaven and history is already made. However, I appreciate his desire to personally succeed in both launching a major business around his invention and delivering its value to humanity. Plus he must now know that every day of competitive progress by IH brings that value one day closer, regardless of who ultimately delivers it. What a chase!

  • builditnow

    A very simple explanation could be that the heat loss from the reactor is designed to exceed the Cold Fusion energy generated, without some supplemental heat, the reactor will cool down and the Cold Fusion will also shut down as Cold Fusion temperature related, increasing with temperature. This way it could be possible to control the reactor by adding 10% to 20% of the energy required to maintain the desired temperature. EMF from the current could also be needed but this could be produced with much much smaller amounts of energy.
    Gas could be used for most of the 10% to 20% energy to add.
    If this explanation is true, other mechanisms could be used to control the heat loss once the reactor is up to temperature, that way far less energy could be used and the COP should be able to be more like 50 or greater. The fact that COP is reported in a patent to be 11 does go against my simple explanation. (But Rossi might be hiding a much higher COP to keep competitors at bay).

    • Axil Axil

      What Rossi is missing in his design is a heat sink that can mitigate a meltdown level heat burst of 1 megawatt in 10 seconds. Such a heat sink could be designed using a lithium based heat pipe approach to a lithium based high capacity heat storage reservoir.

  • James

    Well when for goodness will it ever be launched? Anybody know? I’m waiting to throw a pie in Harper’s face!

  • NT

    Rossi, replied to my similar question on his blog the other day, YES, the gas cat requires a small electrical input – likely AC (my assumption)…

  • Bob

    What’s the latest on Black Light Power (BLP). If I remember correctly, they made the statement that a working unit would be made from off the shelf parts and woud be available in just a few weeks. That was some months ago when he was raising money. A couple of videos showing a few sparks was on Youtube, but I have heard nothing since.. Could they be the serious competitor? I did not put much stock into the videos I saw.

    • psi2u2

      I think most people here take BLP with a grain of salt. Big claims, but so far at least not a whole lot you can take to the bank. To me Rossi, and probably some of his other known competitors like Brillouin, are much more likely on to something. I’d be happy to be surprised, but I’m not holding my breath.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        You just expressed exactly what I am thinking. Couldn’t agree more.

        • GreenWin

          Dr. Mills, is an extraordinary scientist and inventor whose work in LENR predates all but F&P. He has many valuable patents and sophisticated investors, none of whom have complained or sued BLP. It may take years to clear, but Mills has driven USA Ni-H2 research and is now onto the SF-CIHT Sun Cell. After F&P, Randell Mills is the father of LENR-hydrino transitions.
          And I doubt he’s really from Philly. 🙂

          • psi2u2

            I do not write him off in any way. I am just saying that based on the evidence available to me through what Mills has shown publicly, I’m not sure he is yet competing in the same league with Rossi. That could of course change, and as his been mentioned, his close-mindedness about LENR seems unfortunate.

      • bachcole

        I guess it is all of your William Shakespeare studies, but you expressed my sentiment exactly.

        I am a Rossi cultist only because Rossi delivers. I am not a Mills cultist because he does not deliver. Mills should know that this is really not complicated.

        • psi2u2

          Yep. Always best to deliver more than you promise and promise less than you deliver.

    • Mark Underwood

      That is a possibility, that BLP is a ‘serious competitor’ in Rossi’s eyes. However Mills of BLP does not reciprocate. Mills thinks cold fusion is impossible, and those engaged in the enterprise are crooks or badly mistaken. I’m a fan of Mills, but not a fan of his know it all attitude and hard core skepticism. I made the Yahoo Group Society of Classical Physics list aware of the positive result of the latest (Lugano) test, but Mills would have none of it.

      Currently BLP is in a quiet phase, presumably working away on the prototype. Mills was asked a week ago or so about progress on the SunCell, and he tersely replied that he has no obligation to update the group. Ouch.

      Unlike the eCat, there are very significant large scale engineering challenges with the SunCell, although Dr. Mills, as he usual does, minimizes the problems.

      But the SunCell will apparently produce high quality power – electrical – and lots of it, supposedly enough to even power an automobile. I heard somewhere that the collective power of engines in industry and transportation dwarfs the electrical power supplied by the grid. So the good news is that the immediate markets of cold fusion and hydrino technology would seem to be different enough to minimize direct competition.

      • Omega Z

        From Mills sales pitch while back, He’s talking higher prices per Kilowatt then present market prices for most people & devices would be leased, not owned. A Big Turn Off all around.
        Maybe competition will change his tune…

        • Mark Underwood

          Yeah I too found it a bit of a turn off. Technological advancements should be about liberty, not control. I suppose Mills wants the device leased out (rather than owned) in part to deter people from breaking into the device and back engineering it. Also, he wants to charge by usage of the device. So instead of people owning an engine and paying for fuel at the pump, they would instead be paying for mileage on a leased engine, which would be somehow monitored. (Fuel would supposedly be free ; moisture pulled out of the air).

          While the pitch no doubt was aimed at investors eager to get a good return, my idealism found it off putting.

          We’ll see in the next month if there has been significant process on the Suncell. If there has and it is proven to work, it will certainly be a sledge hammer to the base of the quantum physics edifice.

    • Omega Z

      “working unit would be made from off the shelf parts”
      Should be off the Shelf Technology. Not parts.
      He’s Late. Again

      • tlp

        Not late at least yet: 18+2 weeks from July 21 is December 8.

        Some latest hints from SocietyforClassicalPhysics:

        Nov 5:

        The reason we all do not have a SunCell is not because of an evil Cabal of Quantum Theoreticians but because engineering the Hydrino reaction at commercial power levels has been a real difficult and challenging problem as Dr . Mills previously explained. Now they believe they can do it but we still do not know for sure and we will not know until BLP reveals what progress they have made. Hopefully that will be this year.

        R. Mills:>>We are making great progress.

        Nov 9:

        The one thing that QM does better than GUT-CP is that it makes for some
        great and entertaining movies. (Interstellar)

        R. Mills:>>QM doesn¹t provide for the SunCell and the fifth force which could be
        permissive of human colonization.

        • Omega Z

          I believe originally it was 6 to 8 weeks.
          However, seldom does any of them deliver on time. Which when working on new technology is to be expected.
          I also don’t pay much attention when one makes negative statements towards another. Common among competitors.

          I don’t care much for Mills personalty, but I give him credit for intelligence.

          • tlp

            You mean 16-18 weeks?

    • C. Kirk

      A prototype was expected to be completed by about the middle of December, however according to a post by Blacklight power that i recently saw , the prototype is not expected to be completed until early 2015 due to some parts not being available currently…. here’s hoping but I’m not holding my breath many failed promises but hope springs eternal but don’t ask me for any money

  • psi2u2

    I agree, this site is wonderful.

  • GreenWin

    The proper acronym for BBC is BP-C. Does anyone honestly doubt the BBC’s rant on cold fusion represents the cowering paranoia of British Petroleum?

  • psi2u2

    I think most people here take BLP with a grain of salt. Big claims, but so far at least not a whole lot you can take to the bank. To me Rossi, and probably some of his other known competitors like Brillouin, are much more likely on to something. I’d be happy to be surprised, but I’m not holding my breath.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      You just expressed exactly what I am thinking. Couldn’t agree more.

      • GreenWin

        Dr. Mills, is an extraordinary scientist and inventor whose work in LENR predates all but F&P. He has many valuable patents and sophisticated investors, none of whom have complained or sued BLP. It may take years to clear, but Mills has driven USA Ni-H2 research and is now onto the SF-CIHT Sun Cell. After F&P, Randell Mills is the father of LENR-hydrino transitions.
        And I doubt he’s really from Philly. 🙂

        • psi2u2

          I do not write him off in any way. I am just saying that based on the evidence available to me through what Mills has shown publicly, I’m not sure he is yet competing in the same league with Rossi. That could of course change….

  • They are either all crazy liars or they have achieved the greatest invention in energy of the last 100 years. Their life records don’t show any signs of any of them being insane or stupid, but rather very intelligent and well educated with a record of positive scientific advancement. The name of their company is terrible, but that is a mistake that occurred because of cultural differences. Most of the company staff are immigrants, which might make them suspect to some people, but not me. Their product is wildly new and original and goes against the known laws of physics, but does that make it unreal? Do we know everything about matter and energy? The logic of the situation is that the device is real. I am excited about the possibilities, but am aware there could be some unknown factor that could make it all unusable. But it has had two tests that were independent with the caveat that the testers did not look inside the reactor. Any serious investor should demand to see everything inside the device before handing over a check. I cannot believe that their staff of about a dozen people could all go crazy and get this far with nothing but a bluff and a magic trick. The odds are that it is real, so I am excited about that, but await proof beyond doubt, which should come soon, either positive or negative.

  • Andy Kumar

    I have not been following this for a while. Has somebody asked Rossi why he does not want to work with Bill Gates. That could open a few doors to the corridors of power.

    • psi2u2

      What makes you think he doesn’t? We don’t know. He went to ENEA because that was the “respectable” thing to do. My bet would be that he has already met Rossi, but it just wasn’t a photo op.

      I don’t think Bill Gates would fly to Italy to with ENEA without also wanting to to talk to the guy whom pretty much everyone agrees is at present the odds on favorite in the race to commercialization. And something makes me think that Rossi would hardly say no to such an opportunity. So who knows what is really going on? It seems good to keep our assumptions fairly minimalist at this stage.

      • Andy Kumar

        I heard that Bill Gates was interested to meet Mr. Rossi. Rossi asked that Gates call him first. That won’t do.
        Sometimes inventors can be that way. Once Steve Jobs insisted that Bill Clinton call him personally before he will meet him. Bill won’t do that. Jobs had to relent.

        • psi2u2

          aha. Well, interesting rumor. Could be. I can certainly see that happening. Maybe they will renegotiate. Or maybe Gates will put some of his money elsewhere.

          • Omega Z

            If Gates invests in IH, then He & Rossi could meet for coffee in the break room each morning.

      • Omega Z

        If Bill Gates were to invest in E-cat, it would be by way of Industrial Heat. But he would 1st gather some background on the technology.
        Oh, And we would never hear about it until much later.

        Look for the Micro-Cat joined with a micro turbine.
        Micro-Cat Software Security updates will be available the 1st Tuesday of every month. 🙂

        • psi2u2

          Lol.

    • Gerrit

      I think that Rossi currently has all the funding he needs and he feels very comfortable with Tom Darden and Industrial Heat.

      Rossi is convinced that when he presents his ecat, after it has been in operation for many months, all doors will open.

  • LuFong

    Blacklight Power Countdown (not mine): http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141205T00&p0=861&msg=Blacklight+Power+Working+Prototoype+Due&csz=1&swk=1

    I haven’t heard anything if this is on schedule or not.

    • Gerrit

      BLP hasn’t convinced me at all with their recent demos. Maybe I didn’t understand what they were trying to show.

  • bitplayer

    Maybe…in five years the current E-Cat and Brilioun reactor designs will seem like 1890’s internal combustion engines…

    • Ophelia Rump

      Print a 1kw reactor which directly outputs electricity on a postage stamp and you will have a little bit of the future right in the palm of your hand.

      • psi2u2

        I’ll take a dozen.

      • Fortyniner

        Licking them could be quite hazardous.

        • georgehants

          I’m getting a tad annoyed with Mr. Rossi, just before leaving Hants, We had a new condensing boiler fitted, now I am in Cornwall we need a new condensing boiler.
          He’s delaying things just to laugh at me fitting boilers all over the Country.

          • Omega Z

            He he, George
            He’s hoping you buy enough boilers that the volume of production brings the price down. Thus he can increase his profit margin on E-cat/Boiler combo’s.

  • Click the link in my post.

  • psi2u2

    What makes you think he doesn’t? We don’t know. He went to ENEA because that was the “respectable” thing to do. My bet would be that he has already met Rossi, but it just wasn’t a photo op.

    I don’t think Bill Gates would fly to Italy to with ENEA without also wanting to to talk to the guy whom pretty much everyone agrees is at present the odds on favorite in the race to commercialization. And something makes me think that Rossi would hardly say no to such an opportunity. So who knows what is really going on? It seems good to keep our assumptions fairly minimalist at this stage.

    • Omega Z

      If Bill Gates were to invest in E-cat, it would be by way of Industrial Heat. But he would 1st gather some background on the technology.
      Oh, And we would never hear about it until much later.

      Look for the Micro-Cat joined with a micro turbine.
      Micro-Cat Software Security updates will be available the 1st Tuesday of every month. 🙂

      • psi2u2

        Lol.

  • psi2u2

    I recommend studying 911 events from a scientific frame of reference, starting with asking yourself why Building 7 collapsed. I realize this is off topic, and not the place for any extended discussion, but since you mentioned it….. 🙂

    In a more general sense, yes Peswiki has a problem with getting overenthusiastic about things that later prove to be hokum. Sterling does his best to separate out scammers and the self-promoters, but in the end, there are so many available that it’s hard for him to avoid them in trying to cover such a complex topic as fringe energy production. But there is still intriguing content worth reading there.

  • Omega Z

    “working unit would be made from off the shelf parts”
    Should be off the Shelf Technology. Not parts.
    He’s Late. Again

    • tlp

      Not late at least yet: 18+2 weeks from July 21 is December 8.

      Some latest hints from SocietyforClassicalPhysics:

      Nov 5:

      The reason we all do not have a SunCell is not because of an evil Cabal of Quantum Theoreticians but because engineering the Hydrino reaction at commercial power levels has been a real difficult and challenging problem as Dr . Mills previously explained. Now they believe they can do it but we still do not know for sure and we will not know until BLP reveals what progress they have made. Hopefully that will be this year.

      R. Mills:>>We are making great progress.

      Nov 9:

      The one thing that QM does better than GUT-CP is that it makes for some
      great and entertaining movies. (Interstellar)

      R. Mills:>>QM doesn¹t provide for the SunCell and the fifth force which could be
      permissive of human colonization.

      • Omega Z

        I believe originally it was 6 to 8 weeks.
        However, seldom does any of them deliver on time. Which when working on new technology is to be expected.
        I also don’t pay much attention when one makes negative statements towards another. Common among competitors.

        I don’t care much for Mills personalty, but I give him credit for intelligence.

        • tlp

          You mean 16-18 weeks?

  • Omega Z

    From Mills sales pitch while back, He’s talking higher prices per Kilowatt then present market prices for most people & devices would be leased, not owned. A Big Turn Off all around.
    Maybe competition will change his tune…

  • Gerrit

    I think that Rossi currently has all the funding he needs and he feels very comfortable with Tom Darden and Industrial Heat.

    Rossi is convinced that when he presents his ecat, after it has been in operation for many months, all doors will open.

  • Gerrit

    We could start with putting a few facts together on a google drive and work from there.

  • georgehants

    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
    ~John F. Kennedy

  • georgehants

    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
    ~John F. Kennedy

    • orsobubu

      Uh, yes george, but most of times that “violent revolution” is a counter-revolution by old lords instead, just to make sure the order is restored and business go on as usual; and this because innovators sticked with their peaceful ideals in place of organize. And I don’t mean to organize their violence, I mean organize, in advance, an inner steady structure and an external opportunistic alliance with those enemy fringes that can share common objectives, when violent counter revolution should be historically inevitable

    • orsobubu

      better, “sticked with their peaceful or anarchist or – at worst – with terrorist ideals”, just to address the message to non-european friends (I hope europeans be already immunized, with their tragic history of failures)

  • Fortyniner

    Cameron’s nuclear crusade is being pushed forward just by him and some close associates in government, for whatever real reasons. What the average tory supporter thinks about this agenda is more or less irrelevant.

    The BBC is an institution which undeviatingly parrots the MSM central line on a large range of topics, in the face of the facts if necessary. Where this unquestioned ‘consensus’ originates is obscure, but it has little to do with the Conservative party outside the top offices, which may explain the dislike.

  • Andre Blum

    A new post by an electrical engineer called R. Ventola on Vessela Nikolova’s blog compares the recent IH patent application drawing to the hot cat I device in the first 3rd party report. Until reading this, I had not so clearly understood that there was such a clear match.

    http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/how-hot-cat-is-made-type-i-design/

  • Andre Blum

    A new post by an electrical engineer called R. Ventola on Vessela Nikolova’s blog compares the recent IH patent application drawing to the hot cat I device in the first 3rd party report. Until reading this, I had not so clearly understood that there was such a clear match.

    http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/how-hot-cat-is-made-type-i-design/

  • Mark E Kitiman

    Its worth popping over to the replication thread:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/11/replication-thread/

  • Mark E Kitiman

    Its worth popping over to the replication thread:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/11/replication-thread/

  • lkelemen

    on his blog Rossi answered “yes” to the question “Do you know of any lab that succeded in replication of the Rossi Effect even in a minimal part ?”

  • psi2u2

    aha. Well, interesting rumor. Could be.

    • Omega Z

      If Gates invests in IH, then He & Rossi could meet for coffee in the break room each morning.

  • C. Kirk

    A prototype was expected to be completed by about the middle of December, however according to a post by Blacklight power that i recently saw , the prototype is not expected to be completed until early 2015 due to some parts not being available currently…. here’s hoping but I’m not holding my breath many failed promises but hope springs eternal but don’t ask me for any money

  • Ronzonni

    Marco Serra asked Rossi: “Do you know of any lab that succeded in replication of the Rossi Effect even in a minimal part ?” and he responded yes. Today on JONP.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Some interesting comments over a broad range of possible competitors, No?

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Some interesting comments over a broad range of possible competitors, No?

  • jousterusa

    Where Rossi wrote

    Where Rossi wrote “lacking” he meant “providing,” I’m pretty sure. BTW, rgis article ran in India’s Business Standard a few days ago…

  • jousterusa

    Where Rossi wrote “lacking” he meant “providing,” I’m pretty sure. BTW, this article ran in India’s Business Standard a few days ago…

    • Alex

      He probably meant ‘leaking’

  • psi2u2

    Yep. Always best to deliver more than you promise and promise less than you deliver.