Huffington Post Science Blog Calls for More LENR Research

On the Huffington Post Science Blog today, David H. Bailey of the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab (retired) and University of California, and Jonathan M. Borwein, Laureate Professor of Mathematics, University of Newcastle, Australia have written an article titled “Low Energy Nuclear Reactions: Papers and Patents” in which they take a serious, but very cautious look at some of the recent developments in the LENR field.

Bailey and Borwein discussed LENR in an article about fusion last month and said that while there was reason for skepticism, there was a chance that Andrea Rossi could have discovered something that could revolutionize energy production. In this new article, the authors continue with their caution, but point out that there are some interesting signs. They write:

In the past few years, activity in the LENR arena has picked up considerably, with over20 organizations involved, ranging from universities, national laboratories and NASAto corporations such as Mitsubishi and Toyota. Notables such as Bill Gates and former U.S. Secretary of Energy Steven Chu have expressed interest.

 

Bailey and Borwein focus on papers and patents published by Brillouin and Rossi (and independent E-Cat testers) and admit that if what they report is accurate then we are looking something very important. However, they then go on to emphasize that everything about LENR goes against what physicists say is possible. The Coulomb barrier should not be able to be breached at low temperatures, and it is should not be possible to produce large energy gains without observing radiation.

The authors explain that some notable supposed breakthroughs in science that have been broadcasted around the world have turned out to be based on wrong data, and that LENR could turn out to be the same. However, despite their abundance of caution, Bailey and Borwein feel it’s important to cover the topic.

The present authors are as intrigued about these results as anyone. If upheld, their significance can hardly be overstated, particularly if they can be parlayed into practical, safe, green energy solutions for the world’s economy. What’s more, many other researchers worldwide can and should participate in learning more about these remarkable phenomena. Clearly there are numerous aspects of these experiments that deserve significantly more study, whether or not true nuclear processes are occurring.

  • curbina not logged in

    I rarely comment from my cell phone as I can’t log in from it, but this article is worth doing so, as it’s a clear sign that the proverbial dam has a crack and now a fairly strong jet of water is gushing out through it. Amazing to see the crack widening with each fair mainstream article.

  • curbina not logged in

    I rarely comment from my cell phone as I can’t log in from it, but this article is worth doing so, as it’s a clear sign that the proverbial dam has a crack and now a fairly strong jet of water is gushing out through it. Amazing to see the crack widening with each fair mainstream article.

    • bachcole

      What would you know about dams and jets of water?

      • Curbina

        There are plenty of Dams on desert areas Bachcole, they are mostly needed when the water is scarce.

  • bachcole

    I agree with Curbina. This is big. And I salute the courage of Bailey and Borwein. Cautious is good enough for me.

    • I too salute their courage. Every non-LENR scientist that comes out in favor of looking more deeply into this area is helping to move things along.

      The potential benefits are so large and the amount of money and resources needed to explore the science of LENR so small relative to other scientific efforts that it’s imperative that it happen as soon as possible. There’s really no reason to debate it. It’s a clear path and the only reason it has not been taken is resistance from those in a position to resist.

      • bachcole

        Actually, when you think about it, from the perspective of Bailey and Borwein, cautious but adventuresome is the only proper scientific position.

        Resistive? Not scientific.

        True believing? However helpful, not scientific.

  • Buck

    Link to Bailey & Borwein’s 11/28/14 Huffington Post Article:

    “Low Energy Nuclear Reactions: Papers and Patents”
    LINK>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-bailey/low-energy-nuclear-reacti_b_6189772.html

  • Buck

    Link to Bailey & Borwein’s 11/28/14 Huffington Post Article:

    “Low Energy Nuclear Reactions: Papers and Patents”
    LINK>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-bailey/low-energy-nuclear-reacti_b_6189772.html

  • Heath

    This is a surprise. I do wish the article conveyed the relationship with Andrea Rossi and Industrial Heat, the change that it means. Bring on the calls for more research.

  • Heath

    This is a surprise. I do wish the article conveyed the relationship with Andrea Rossi and Industrial Heat, the change that it means. Bring on the calls for more research.

  • Mike403

    A good effort: Let’s hope that ‘mainstream media’ can now have the courage to run similar stories. This could be the breakthrough we’ve been waiting for!

  • georgehants

    These cannot be “real” scientists, they are clearly imposters.
    All “real” scientists are under a strict censorship regarding Cold Fusion and many other important scientific subjects, so these traitors are defying the holy priests and should be ostracized immediatly.
    All “real” scientists should laugh at and debunk what they are saying before these Cold Fusion crackpots are taken seriously.
    The religious Dogmas of science are at stake, destroy their careers now.

    • Mats002

      That must have felt good! 😉

      • georgehants

        Mats, Ha, yes but the absolute Truth, it would have felt much better if the science I love had done their jobs correctly and un-corruptly 25 years ago.
        Will this change science regarding the many other subjects that these half-wits deny and debunk, regardless of the Evidence?

        • Mats002

          Not for sure I guess. I believe that physics must open their eyes now but will that affect other areas of science? There are other debates out there I guess.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think they know exactly the things they urge caution about. It is probably a professional necessity and damn good theater. Bless their politically correct hearts.

      • georgehants

        Ophelia, time for these “politically correct” yes men and women to start doing their jobs and stop being self-centered, establishment following automatons, with no care for the millions of people who, potentially, suffer and die through their gutless refusal to follow the most basic scientific principles.

        • Ophelia Rump

          They were more interested in weaponizing it.
          A few people have researched that field but they have tended to go off the reservation. It is that which they fear most. Smart people going off the reservation. Perhaps it is best left out of their hands.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      You’ll love this one George.

      “Stephen Crothers Destroys the Quackademic…”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRsGPq77X0Q

      • georgehants

        Alan, thank you, the fight for honest science continues.

  • georgehants

    These cannot be “real” scientists, they are clearly imposters.
    All “real” scientists are under a strict censorship regarding Cold Fusion and many other important scientific subjects, so these traitors are defying the holy priests and should be ostracized immediately.
    All “real” scientists should laugh at and debunk what they are saying before these Cold Fusion crackpots are taken seriously.
    The religious Dogmas of science are at stake, destroy their careers now or scientists will be expected to look at Evidence and do uncorrupted Research, rather than just giving our holy “expert opinions” as to the veracity of any subject.

    • Mats002

      That must have felt good! 😉

      • georgehants

        Mats, Ha, yes but the absolute Truth, it would have felt much better if the science that I love had done their jobs correctly and un-corruptly 25 years ago.
        Will this change science regarding the many other subjects that these half-wits deny and debunk, regardless of the Evidence?

        • Mats002

          Not for sure I guess. I believe that physics must open their eyes now but will that affect other areas of science? There are other debates out there I guess.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think they know exactly the things they urge caution about. It is probably a professional necessity and damn good theater. Bless their politically correct hearts.

      • georgehants

        Ophelia, time for these “politically correct” yes men and women to start doing their jobs and stop being self-centered, establishment following automatons, with no care for the millions of people who, potentially, suffer and die through their gutless refusal to follow the most basic scientific principles.
        ——-
        You may be interested in the work of Dr. Stanislav Grof, who’s important work of the 1950’s with LSD has been ignored and debunked by the main stream science (as usual).
        But is at last being re-investigated by a few brave Rebels.
        http://www.holotropic.com/bio_stan-grof.shtml

        • Ophelia Rump

          They were more interested in weaponizing it.
          A few people have researched that field but they have tended to go off the reservation. It is that which they fear most. Smart people going off the reservation. Perhaps it is best left out of their hands.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      You’ll love this one George.

      “Stephen Crothers Destroys the Quackademic…”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRsGPq77X0Q

      • georgehants

        Alan, thank you, the fight for honest science continues.

  • Gerard McEk

    Again a very important sign that scientists start to acknowledge the developments in the LENR field. Soon snowball effects will enhance momentum!

  • Gerard McEk

    Again a very important sign that scientists start to acknowledge the developments in the LENR field. Soon snowball effects will enhance momentum!

  • Gerrit

    oh look another mainstream media reporting that NASA is looking into LENR.
    You won’t find that information in the wikipedia article though. 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      Wikipedia works in reverse, it links to msm stories most of the time. The msm is the “primary source”. Some msm articles (such as this one), refer to wiki…which is not good actually. A journalist needs to gather his/her own info.
      Anyway, any positive msm articles on lenr are not going to appear on wiki for some time, this subject is under “watch”.

  • Gerrit

    oh look another mainstream media reporting that NASA is looking into LENR.
    You won’t find that information in the wikipedia article though. 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      Wikipedia works in reverse, it links to msm stories most of the time. The msm is the “primary source”. Some msm articles (such as this one), refer to wiki…which is not good actually. A journalist needs to gather his/her own info.
      Anyway, any positive msm articles on lenr are not going to appear on wiki for some time, this subject is under “watch”.

  • f sedei

    Interesting. When Bill Gates’ name is mentioned, things seem to jump forward. Coincidence?

  • georgehants

    These good and brave scientists have reported their views in the Huffington Post a good open-minded organ that does much to try and inform it’s readers of the important work being done by True scientists on subjects banned by the establishment.
    My question would be, why is their important and potentially World changing report not in one of the laughably called premier journals

  • georgehants

    These good and brave scientists have reported their views in the Huffington Post a good open-minded organ that does much to try and inform it’s readers of the important work being done by True scientists on subjects banned by the establishment.
    My question would be, why is their important and potentially World changing report not in one of the laughably called premier journals

  • Gerrit

    I am happy with this article. Step by step LENR awareness is spreading.

    However, the authors could have spent more words on the science story and, for instance, explicitely mention SKINR.

    They assert that peer review is needed before anything should be taken seriously, but they should also explain how the whole peer review system is seriously flawed as other scientists have already noticed.

    If science would take peer review seriously, then it must be accepted that the phenomenon is real, because of the 100s of peer reviewed published papers reporting it.

    The fact that science is stating that peer review is the “golden way”, but at the same time dismissing the direction this “golden way” is pointing to is simply disingenuous. This should have been highlighted in the article.

    • Mats002

      Some peer reviews obviously have higher value than others. Who are the peer reviewers that counts? Those are the guys that should open their eyes and IF honest should forward the message of the NOT working system.

      • Gerrit

        Other scientists have noted already that only top tier journals like Nature and Science are counted as real peer review while we know these journals carefully pick only those interesting papers that will keep them on top of the citation index.
        Then funding is mainly granted for work that will end up in these top tier journals. It distorts science.

        These top tier journals have flat out refused to consider publishing cold fusion papers.

        • AlbertNN

          If you came with a credible paper on LENR that reported on both a theory and a corroborating experiment, then both these journals would publish it. But you would need both ingredients, and the experimental study must be very well executed to the highest standards. That is what the aim of LENR research should be, not on demonstrations in front of investors and journalists.

          • Mats002

            The article we discuss here has a reference to what you ask for (eat it!), here is the link again: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

          • AlbertNN

            If anything, that list validates my argument on how to get published in Nature and Science.

          • Mats002

            So why are none of them published in Nature or Science? If any of them was give it to me to eat 😉

          • Mats002
          • AlbertNN

            Because of what I noted above: to be published in these two journals you need a combination of theory and experiment, both of the topmost quality. I have this far, regrettably, not come across any paper in LENR that lives up to this and that has a positive result.

          • Gerrit

            By those standards Becquerel would never have been able to get his photographic plate and uranium salts experiment published.

          • Mats002

            Leanard Weinstein, Senior Research Fellow at National Inst. Aerospace:

            “…As to the lack of theory before publishing data, that is a big joke. Most astronomical results show data results, and theories come and go later. Superconductors were observer well before a theory was developed. In fact, most scientific advances were observed, and then theories attempted. Do we even have a theory for gravity at present?”

            “…Peer review is a good filter, but neither proves or rejects most work, and has been badly abused by many,…”

            Are you in a position to judge on the standards needed, Albert?

          • georgehants

            AlbertNN, why are you talking about these comics as if they are in any way relevant to science?
            These are the clowns that have ignored and denied Cold Fusion for 25 years.
            You do not seem to be aware of how silly you seem referring to them as if they have any relevance to real science.

          • bitplayer

            * marked as abusive

          • GreenWin

            Nature & Science have had their chance. They’ve elected to keep their head down. http://bit.ly/1nPeGuB Next.

          • what is funny is that they refused to correct errors in their published papers

            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdf

            based on bad method

            http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/papers/Miles-Examples-of-Isoperibolic-Slides-ICCF-17.pdf
            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedg.pdf#page=138
            , if not fraud

            http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

            and after they finally desperately rejected Oriani paper after a positive peer review (asking for theory and then bashing the theory, despite the reviewers)

            they finally organized a ban of even considering LENR paper as the report 41 Deninno

            http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchieste/documenti/letteraSCIENCE001.pdf

            so forget about any logic, it is desperate Kuhnian denial of anomalies.

            http://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/Kuhn.html

            it deserve only closing those science comics.

          • AlbertNN

            That is not a formal ban on LENR by Science. It is their standard answer for everything that does not pass the editor, I think that everybody that has tried to publish there has gotten this at least once.

          • Omega Z

            These discussions do not matter,
            Rossi does not need a peer reviewed article. He is an inventor Industrialist. All he needs is a working product to take to market.

            A paper published in Nature or Science to suit their requirements would actually be detrimental as it would merely give away for “free” hard earned knowledge that could be used against his best interests. Rossi’s stated goal. Let the Market decide.

          • Warthog

            Sorry, but no. A “theory” is NOT needed for the scientific validation of LENR. The only necessity is one or more replicated experiments. The notion that “there has to be a theory” is NOT “science”…..it is pseudoscience. The rest of your post is correct….the experiment (or experiments) must be well done, and by credible scientists.

            Unfortunately for science, the latter has been done….over and over and over. Visit the LENR-CANR.org library of papers and read a few. Or read George Beaudette’s excellent book “Excess Heat”.

          • AlbertNN

            What I claimed is that a theory is needed to be published in Nature or Science.

            And I would argue that without a theory you can’t say that the results of an experiment is due to LENR. Without the theory they will only be novel results that you do not have any explanation or theory of.

          • Warthog

            Nature, Science, and you are wrong. Theory is irrelevant to scientific proof. Replicated experimental data is the SOLE criterion for proof of scientific validity. The idea that it is LENR is a theory (actually, it is a hypothesis). Pons and Fleischmann did NOT use the term “cold fusion”. Their comment was “an unknown nuclear process”.

            The presence of anomalous heat generation is a measured scientific fact….as is the detection of He4 (in Pd/D2 systems), and the generation of anomalous isotopes of other elements by other researchers. The three different types of replicated experimental results PROVE that whatever is going on is nuclear in nature.

            Any theory (actually, at this stage it is really a hypothesis) to be developed must explain all three of those established measured and replicated results. But NO theory is required for scientific proof. This is a false, nonscientific meme, and those who continue to use such arguments are doing major damage to “good science”.

          • It is right that a theory is needed to publish in comics journal.
            If you follow pseudo scienc, and even bad LENR science, you see that they use too much theory, they base all their confidence in the theoy not on the evidences… that is a symptom.
            a modern variant is basing on computer models instead of measurements.

            what you say about “without a theory we cannot know it is LENR” is wrong.
            we can know it is nuclear even by sole heat because it cannot chemistry.
            moreover is have some coherence in the phenomenology.
            it is hydrogen, in transition metal lattice.
            few radiation, few tritium, fewer neutrons, triggered by high loading, by change in equilibrium, .

            Edmund Storms (read his book) explain well that coherencen, and propose even a separation from mild fusion, a lower energy hot fusion with neutrons, tritium, high energy… not LENR which is really not hot fusion at all.

          • Kevin O

            Without the theory they will only be novel results that you do not have any explanation or theory of.
            ***That happens all the time with HTSC, gravity, and dark matter. But those papers get published.

            Simple fact is, this was a pissing match between electrochemists and physicists. Electrochemists lost 25 years ago, but some of them kept at it, and now the physicists are about to be handed their hats.

            LENR results have been replicated more than 14,700 times, according to the Chinese Academy of Science.

            Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons
            Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect.
            *
            http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)
            *

          • psi2u2

            Albert, my experience in the humanities suggests that paradigm shifts end up, not infrequently, *last* in the most highly accredited publications in a field. Isn’t the reason why this would be so pretty obvious?

            The established journals represent those of greatest authority at a given time within the field. This may be just because those who make it up are not just the best and the brightest but also the wisest and most far-seeing practitioners, but surely it is not hard to imagine other factors that might make these individuals or institutions not the most likely to be among the “early adopters” of a novel approach within their own field of expertise?

          • georgehants

            AlbertNN, 25 years of corruption and incompetence is what main-line science has shown.
            Wake-up, the establishment is a paid for bunch of wasters.Learn a few scientific principles and stop defending these scientific destroyers.

          • bitplayer

            georgehants: You have provided a perfect example of my concern about your comments alienating people who might be valuable contributors. Your comment contains insulting assumptions that a) AlbertNN is asleep, b) does not know scientific principles, and c) is defending scientific destroyers.

            Your grasping for emotional satisfaction harms LENR development.

            Hang in there AlbertNN; there’s only one georgehants, love him as we do.

          • georgehants

            bitplayer, if Albert or you are not aware of the proven corruption and incompetence from science regarding Cold Fusion for the last 25 years and are not prepared to clearly condemn such unprofessional neglect, then I recommend you both wake-up.
            Thank you for the chat, goodnight.

          • bitplayer

            Thanks. And if I run into any unicorns, I’ll pass on your recommendation.

          • psi2u2

            Hi George,

            I was looking back at this for a second time, and I just wanted to say that I totally understand your passion and anger for what could have been in the past if Pons and Fleishmann had not been crucified, since that is effectively, what was done to them.

            It was a terrible thing, and there is no doubt that it was sustained afterwards by many other terrible actions and decisions. But I guess I find it more interesting to focus on the brave stories of the struggles of those — I think, for example, of the late Eugene Mallove, the once and future chief MIT science journalist who went rogue after the Pons and Fleishmann debacle because he knew they had been railroaded and the “nuclear phenomenon of some type” was a real one.

            And all the scientists — McKubre, Duncan, Focardi, Levi, and all the others now involved in serious LENR research — those people are part of science *too,* and are in fact following a scientific method more scrupulous and ethical than most of their establishment critics.

            To me this is where the excitement, and also the hope for something better, lies. We should be trying to get more of those, like Duncan once was, who still have not really looked at the evidence but might be persuaded if they did. Blaming people for what they did in the past seems to me to be a waste of energy when we could be encouraging and supporting those few who are doing the right thing.

          • georgehants

            psi2u2, many thanks, hope is a big word.
            Admitting and recognizing mistakes is the first and necessary step to putting them right.
            Best

          • bitplayer

            Possibly. However, there’s still a fairly big gap between the ability to get experimental results *at all* and a theory that runs up against not only conventional wisdom but also most accepted (and easy to understand) formulaic frameworks.

            Although it seems that we’ve been reading papers that say the Coulomb barrier issue can be gotten around. And that the radiation can be trapped. And that neutrons can be absorbed. So the “impossibles” (if I got those right) can be undermined. But clearly there is not enough *publicly available* experimental evidence to be able to deduce exactly what is going on.

            However, if we knew the exact electrical data from the Lugano experiment, (which despite all the debate, maybe we do) and the exact composition of the starting powder, and we ran the test 100 times, perhaps it would be enough to say “most likely *this* is what’s happening”, and then, “so if we tweak *that* it should work better”, and if it did, we would be closer to a “real” theory.

            The ways forward at the moment seem to be MFMP and drumbeating, which is getting louder.

          • NT

            Hi Albert and welcome aboard,
            Would this LENR paper meet the basic standards for publication in either or both of these magazines as you have stated?
            http://www.brillouinenergy.com/Docs1/BrillouinEnergyHypothesis.pdf

      • Thomas Clarke

        Top tier Journals continue to publish LENR articles. For example the ultra-dense deuterium articles from Holmlid et al were published as below.

        There are however many articles of lesser quality that don’t get published, for understandable reasons.

        Also, when looking at the available data, scientists will not necessarily agree with the polemic viewpoint of this blog. There is as yet no coherent theory of LENR that explains the published anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated. And there are no published anomalies that provide indisputable evidence for new physics. Till that happens anomalies are interesting but fairly normal, certainly not enough to overturn existing theories.

        210. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fast atoms and negative chain cluster fragments from laser-induced Coulomb explosions in a super-fluid film of ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”. Phys. Scripta, accepted.

        209. L. Holmlid, “Method and apparatus for generating energy through inertial confinement fusion”.
        Patentansökan.

        208. F. Olofson and L. Holmlid, “Superfluid ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) on polymer surfaces: structure and density changes at a polymer-metal boundary”.
        J. Appl. Phys. 111, 123502 (2012);DOI: 10.1063/1.4729078

        207. F. Olofson, A. Ehn, J. Bood, L. Holmlid, “Large intensities of MeV particles and strong charge ejections from laser-induced fusion in ultra-dense deuterium”.
        39th EPS Conference & 16th Int. Congress on Plasma Physics, Stockholm, 2012; 12-02-20, P1.105.

        206. F. Olofson and L. Holmlid, “Detection of MeV particles from ultra-dense protium p(-1): laser-initiated self-compression from p(1)”.
        Nucl. Intr. Meth. B 278 (2012) 34-41. DOI: 10.1016/j.nimb.2012.01.036.

        205 L. Holmlid, “MeV particles from laser-initiated processes in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”.
        Eup. Phys. J. A 48 (2012) 11. DOI: 10.1140/epja/i2012-12011-0.

        204. P.U. Andersson, L. Holmlid, and S.R. Fuelling, “Search for superconductivity in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) at room temperature: depletion of D(-1) at field strength > 0.05 T”.
        J. Supercond. Novel Magn. 25 (2012) 873-882. DOI: 10.1007/s10948-011-1371-6.

        203. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Cluster ions DN+ ejected from dense and ultra-dense deuterium by Coulomb explosions: fragment rotation and D+ backscattering from ultra-dense clusters in the surface phase”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 310 (2012) 32-43. DOI: 10.1016/j.ijms.2011.11.004

        202. L. Holmlid, “Experimental studies of clusters of Rydberg matter and its extreme dense forms”. Invited review.
        J. Cluster Sci. 23 (2012) 5-34. DOI: 10.1007/s10876-011-0417-z.

        201. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fusion generated fast particles by laser impact on ultra-dense deuterium: rapid variation with laser intensity”.
        J. Fusion Energy 31 (2012) 249-256. DOI 10.1007/s10894-011-9468-2.

        200. L. Holmlid, “Sub-nanometer distances and cluster shapes in dense hydrogen and in higher levels of hydrogenRydberg Matter by phase-delay spectroscopy”.
        J. Nanopart. Res. 13 (2011) 5535-5546. DOI 10.1007/s11051-011-0543-4..

        199. L. Holmlid, “Diffuse interstellar bands (DIB) in space: almost all bands calculated from co-planar doubly excited He and metal atoms embedded in Rydberg Matter”.
        Astrophys. Space Sci. 336 (2011) 391-412. DOI 10.1007/s10509-011-0795-6.

        198. L. Holmlid, “Deuterium clusters DN and mixed K-D and D-H clusters of Rydberg Matter: high temperatures and strong coupling to ultra-dense deuterium”.
        J. Cluster Sci. 23 (2012) 95-114. DOI 10.1007/s10876-011-0387-1.

        197. L. Holmlid, “High-charge Coulomb explosions of clusters in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 304 (2011) 51–56. doi: 10.1016/j.ijms.2011.04.001.

        196. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Superfluid ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) at room temperature”.
        Phys. Lett. A 375 (2011) 1344–1347. doi:10.1016/j.physleta.2011.01.035.

        195. L. Holmlid, “Large ion clusters HN+ of Rydberg Matter: stacks of planar clusters H7”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 300 (2011) 50-58. doi:10.1016/j.ijms.2010.12.008.

        194. P. U. Andersson, B. Lönn and L. Holmlid, “Efficient source for the production of ultra-dense deuteriumD(-1) for laser-induced fusion (ICF)”. Rev. Sci. Instrum. 82 (2011) 013503. doi:10.1063/1.3514985.

        193. M. Trebala, W. Rozek, L. Holmlid, M. Molenda, and A. Kotarba,”Potassium stabilization in ß-K2Fe22O34 by Cr and Ce doping studied by field reversal method”. Solid State Ionics (2011) . doi:10.1016/j.ssi.2010.08.004.

        192. L. Holmlid, “Common forms of alkali metals – new Rydberg Matter clusters of potassium and hydrogen”. J. Clust. Sci 21 (2010) 637-653. DOI: 10.1007/s10876-010-0291-0.

        191. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Laser-driven nuclear fusion D+D in ultra-dense deuterium: MeV particles formed without ignition”. Laser Part. Beams 28 (2010) 313-317 doi:10.1017/S0263034610000236.

        190. P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Deuteron energy of 15 MK in a surface phase of ultra-dense deuteriumwithout plasma formation: temperature of the interior of the Sun”. Phys. Lett. A 374 (2010) 2856–2860
        DOI: 10.1016/j.physleta.2010.03.009

        189. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Production of ultra-dense deuterium, a compact future fusion fuel”. Appl. Phys. Lett. 96 (2010) 124103. doi:10.1063/1.3371718.

        188. F. Olofson, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Rydberg Matter clusters of alkali metal atoms: the link between meteoritic matter, polar mesosphere summer echoes (PMSE), sporadic sodium layers, polar mesospheric clouds (PMCs, NLCs), and ion chemistry in the mesosphere”. arXiv.org 10-02-08, astro-ph/1002.1570. http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.1570

        187. S. Badiei, P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Laser-induced variable pulse-power TOF-MS and neutral time-of-flight studies of ultra-dense deuterium”. Phys. Scripta 81 (2010) 045601. doi: 10.1088/0031-8949/81/04/045601.

        186. P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Ultra-dense deuterium: a possible nuclear fuel for inertial confinement fusion (ICF)”. Phys. Letters A 373 (2009) 3067–3070. doi:10.1016/j.physleta.2009.06.046.

        185. L. Holmlid, H. Hora, G. Miley and X. Yang, “Ultrahigh-density deuterium of Rydberg matter clusters for inertial confinement fusion targets”. Laser and Particle Beams 27 (2009) 529–532.

        184. A. Kotarba and L. Holmlid, “Energy-pooling transitions to doubly excited K atoms at a promoted
        iron-oxide catalyst surface: more than 30 eV available for reaction”. Phys. Chem. Chem. Phys. 11 (2009) 4351-4359. DOI: 10.1039/b817380j.

        183. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “High-energy Coulomb explosions in ultra-dense deuterium: time-of-flight mass spectrometry with variable energy and flight length”. Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 282 (2009) 70-76.Link to abstract and paper.

        182. L. Holmlid, “Nm interatomic distances in Rydberg Matter clusters confirmed by phase-delay spectroscopy”. J. Nanopart. Res. 12 (2010) 273-284. DOI 10.1007/s11051-009-9605-2.

        181. L. Holmlid, “Light in condensed matter in the upper atmosphere as the origin of homochirality: circularly polarized light from Rydberg Matter”. Astrobiol. 9 (2009) 535-542.

        180. L. Holmlid, “Nuclear spin transitions in the kHz range in Rydberg Matter clusters give precise values of the internal magnetic field from orbiting Rydberg electrons”. Chem. Phys. 358 (2009) 61–67.

        179. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fusion reactions in high-density hydrogen: a fast route to small-scale fusion?” Int. J. Hydr. Energy 34 (2009) 487-495. Link to abstract and paper.

        • Kevin O

          There is as yet no coherent theory of LENR that explains the published
          anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated.
          ***There is as yet no coherent theory of High Temperature SuperConductivity (HTSC) that explains the published anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated. The same goes with gravity.

          And there are no published anomalies that provide indisputable evidence for
          new physics.
          ***That is because anomalies are loudly shouted down when there is an entrenched group of people who stand to gain by there being no anomalies to investigate (in this case, high temperature fusioneers who are sucking on the guvmint teet and developing Nuke weapons). That’s why HTSC results are regularly published but LENR results aren’t… there was no entrenched group who stood to lose their funding in HTSC.

          • Thomas Clarke

            My reply to this would be that as the work of Holmlid et al I’ve posted on this thread, LENR anomalies most certainly are published, when experiments are written up in a convincing way. Scientists like anomalies, especially when presented with a coherent story.

            Whether such stories gain traction depends on their predictivity.

            HTSC theory is predictive, it proposes a mechanism which explains (most) of the HTSC data and which is not a step in the dark because it comes from quantum solid state theory which is supported by a wide range of other experiments. Related mechanisms look like they explain the rest. It is not a finished article because the interactions in materials are complex and (it now seems) there are multiple ways in which boson-like interactions can be engendered in lattices, not just Cooper pairs of electrons.

            So: for coherent theory I’d say the idea that within a lattice electrons, or other fermionic particles, can pair up to make bosonic pseudo-particles that multiply populate a single low energy state. You can see all you need is a bandgap between the low energy state and others, and some interaction that gives rise to bosonic behaviour. Complex because of the many possible pseudo-particles that can result and the many interactions that determine the size of the bandgap. Not complete because we have not investigated all of this stuff yet. Quantitative and predictive because you can investigate state transition energies in other ways and relate that to onset of superconductivity.

          • Kevin O

            LENR anomalies most certainly are published, when experiments are
            written up in a convincing way. Scientists like anomalies, especially
            when presented with a coherent story.
            ***You sound like a LENR newbie. LENR research has been actively suppressed for 2 decades. As an example, Ed Storms submitted one of his research articles to 42 different journals before getting past “peer” review. That isn’t happening in HTSC because there isn’t a group of government paid activists shooting down the research wherever they find it.

            Whether such stories gain traction depends on their predictivity.
            ***Nonsense. It depends upon whether there’s a group of well paid anti-scientific antagonists hounding the effort. HTSC has no such problem; LENR does.

          • HTSC were also suppressed for some years, forced to be published as footnote not to have the paper rejected

            http://www.mosaicsciencemagazine.org/pdf/m18_03_87_04.pdf

            “Footnotes

            In fact, says James L. Smith, director of the Center for Materials Science of Los Alamos National Laboratory, the first two heavy-fermion superconductors discovered were originally reported as footnotes, because they were so unbelievable.

            Smith heads the Physical Metallurgy Group of the Materials Science and Technology Division at Los Alamos, and with colleagues Zachary Fisk and Jeffrey O. Willis, has done pioneering work in the discovery of new heavy fermion systems.”

            It is very common to have history rewritten to hide academic stupidity and misfunction.
            Watson&crick explain how DNBA was attacked untile the public success.

            Schechtmann explains well howe he was insulted by linus pauling.
            http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jan/06/dan-shechtman-nobel-prize-chemistry-interview

            just read that long list of stupidity
            http://amasci.com/weird/vindac.html

  • Gerrit

    I am happy with this article. Step by step LENR awareness is spreading.

    However, the authors could have spent more words on the science story and, for instance, explicitely mention SKINR.

    They assert that peer review is needed before anything should be taken seriously, but they should also explain how the whole peer review system is seriously flawed as other scientists have already noticed.

    If science would take peer review seriously, then it must be accepted that the phenomenon is real, because of the 100s of peer reviewed published papers reporting it.

    The fact that science is stating that peer review is the “golden way”, but at the same time dismissing the direction this “golden way” is pointing to is simply disingenuous. This should have been highlighted in the article.

    • Mats002

      Some peer reviews obviously have higher value than others. Who are the peer reviewers that counts? Those are the guys that should open their eyes and IF honest should forward the message of the NOT working system.

      • Gerrit

        Other scientists have noted already that only top tier journals like Nature and Science are counted as real peer review while we know these journals carefully pick only those interesting papers that will keep them on top of the citation index.
        Then funding is mainly granted for work that will end up in these top tier journals. It distorts science.

        These top tier journals have flat out refused to consider publishing cold fusion papers.

        • AlbertNN

          If you came with a credible paper on LENR that reported on both a theory and a corroborating experiment, then both these journals would publish it. But you would need both ingredients, and the experimental study must be very well executed to the highest standards. That is what the aim of LENR research should be, not on demonstrations in front of investors and journalists.

          • Mats002

            The article we discuss here has a reference to what you ask for (eat it!), here is the link again: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

          • AlbertNN

            If anything, that list validates my argument on how to get published in Nature and Science.

          • Mats002

            So why are none of them published in Nature or Science? If any of them was give it to me to eat 😉

          • Mats002
          • AlbertNN

            Because of what I noted above: to be published in these two journals you need a combination of theory and experiment, both of the topmost quality. I have this far, regrettably, not come across any paper in LENR that lives up to this and that has a positive result.

          • Gerrit

            By those standards Becquerel would never have been able to get his photographic plate and uranium salts experiment published.

          • AlbertNN

            Not in Nature och Science, no. But help me, as I am not sure of the history: Where was this finding published by Becquerel?

          • Gerrit

            His reports to the French academy of sciences are in the “Comptes rendus de l’Académie des sciences”.

          • AlbertNN

            Exactly, they were verbal reports on the weekly(?) meetings of the society, which were then transcribed. Not publications in a reviewed scientific journal. Which supports my point above.

          • Mats002

            Leanard Weinstein, Senior Research Fellow at National Inst. Aerospace:

            “…As to the lack of theory before publishing data, that is a big joke. Most astronomical results show data results, and theories come and go later. Superconductors were observer well before a theory was developed. In fact, most scientific advances were observed, and then theories attempted. Do we even have a theory for gravity at present?”

            “…Peer review is a good filter, but neither proves or rejects most work, and has been badly abused by many,…”

            Are you in a position to judge on the standards needed, Albert?

          • AlbertNN

            I am just trying to add something on the publishing practices of two particular journals, Nature and Science, as these were commented upon above.

          • georgehants

            AlbertNN, why are you talking about these comics as if they are in any way relevant to science?
            These are the clowns that have ignored and denied Cold Fusion for 25 years.
            You do not seem to be aware of how silly you seem referring to them as if they have any relevance to real science.

          • GreenWin

            Nature & Science have had their chance. They’ve elected to keep their head down. http://bit.ly/1nPeGuB Next.

          • what is funny is that they refused to correct errors in their published papers

            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJhownaturer.pdf

            based on bad method

            http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/papers/Miles-Examples-of-Isoperibolic-Slides-ICCF-17.pdf
            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedg.pdf#page=138
            , if not fraud

            http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

            and after they finally desperately rejected Oriani paper after a positive peer review (asking for theory and then bashing the theory, despite the reviewers)

            they finally organized a ban of even considering LENR paper as the report 41 Deninno

            http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchieste/documenti/letteraSCIENCE001.pdf

            so forget about any logic, it is desperate Kuhnian denial of anomalies.

            http://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/Kuhn.html

            it deserve only closing those science comics.

          • AlbertNN

            That is not a formal ban on LENR by Science. It is their standard answer for everything that does not pass the editor, I think that everybody that has tried to publish there has gotten this at least once.

          • Omega Z

            These discussions do not matter,
            Rossi does not need a peer reviewed article. He is an inventor Industrialist. All he needs is a working product to take to market.

            A paper published in Nature or Science to suit their requirements would actually be detrimental as it would merely give away for “free” hard earned knowledge that could be used against his best interests. Rossi’s stated goal. Let the Market decide.

          • bachcole

            Also, a publication in Nature or Science would diminish the most excellent ass whoopin’ that they so richly deserve. (:->) Although everyone is infinitely valuable, some people still need an ass whoopin’.

          • georgehants

            AlbertNN, who the hell would want to be published in the comics you mention, the Huffington Post continuously shows itself to be far more “premier” than the establishment huggers that the average scientist reads and worships.

          • Warthog

            Sorry, but no. A “theory” is NOT needed for the scientific validation of LENR. The only necessity is one or more replicated experiments. The notion that “there has to be a theory” is NOT “science”…..it is pseudoscience. The rest of your post is correct….the experiment (or experiments) must be well done, and by credible scientists.

            Unfortunately for science, the latter has been done….over and over and over. Visit the LENR-CANR.org library of papers and read a few. Or read George Beaudette’s excellent book “Excess Heat”.

          • AlbertNN

            What I claimed is that a theory is needed to be published in Nature or Science.

            And I would argue that without a theory you can’t say that the results of an experiment is due to LENR. Without the theory they will only be novel results that you do not have any explanation or theory of.

          • Warthog

            Nature, Science, and you are wrong. Theory is irrelevant to scientific proof. Replicated experimental data is the SOLE criterion for proof of scientific validity. The idea that it is LENR is a theory (actually, it is a hypothesis). Pons and Fleischmann did NOT use the term “cold fusion”. Their comment was “an unknown nuclear process”.

            The presence of anomalous heat generation is a measured scientific fact….as is the detection of He4 (in Pd/D2 systems), and the generation of anomalous isotopes of other elements by other researchers. The three different types of replicated experimental results PROVE that whatever is going on is nuclear in nature.

            Any theory (actually, at this stage it is really a hypothesis) to be developed must explain all three of those established measured and replicated results. But NO theory is required for scientific proof. This is a false, nonscientific meme, and those who continue to use such arguments are doing major damage to “good science”.

          • AlbertNN

            There is no such concept as a “proof” within science. It is only valid within closed logical systems, such as formal logic and parts of mathematics.

          • US_Citizen71

            If you put flame to an unknown liquid and it becomes aflame and continues to burn after the the external source is removed is it not proof that the liquid is flammable?

          • AlbertNN

            No, as the concept of “proof” is without merit in science. The same goes for “truth”, by the way. This is not directly intuitive, but I can recommend Alan Chalmers book “What is this thing called science?” as a starting point.

          • AlbertNN

            I wrote a reply to this, and hopes it gets approved.

          • Thomas Clarke

            @Warthog

            What you say is true and false, but mostly false.

            As Albert says science is inductive – something that has happened many times before is considered probable to happen again. No-one can prove this formally.

            Theories (like the stuff that means we expect the sun to rise in thje east tomorrow) have such very strong predictive power that we tend to give them “effectively proven” status.

            there is no doubt that the rossi tests that you note exist, and contain data which trumps any theory. But without a theory there so very very many ways that data could be interpreted. Those ways include:
            experimental error (of many different kinds)
            deceit (of many different kinds)
            and so on.

            There is no way that LENR can be considered a better explanation for the results unless we have a definition of what LENR is. And if that definition is essentially “LENR is anything that otherwise seems unusual” that is a very weak theory that would require a lot more evidence to support it than something with a more precise and predictive theory.

            For example, I can have a hypothesis that my pair of dice never turn up double 6, supported by a number of experiments. The hypothesis is entirely possible – loaded dice – but not what you’d choose with no evidence. Does 20 throws of the dice with no double sizes represent good evidence for this hypothesis? No.

            On the other hand if I hypothesise that my dice will always come up double 1 and they do that even 5 times that is very powerful evidence the hypothesis is true, because the hypothesis makes strong predictions which could easily be falsified.

          • Mats002

            Welcome to the journey of understanding phenomenon of our common reality. It seams you are a beginner of understanding LENR. Keep searching you will get there!

          • Kevin O

            As Albert says science is inductive

            ***Where did Albert say this?

            – something that has happened many times before is considered probable to happen again. No-one can prove this formally.

            ***This is an interesting and fascinating assertion. But it is flat-out wrong, and proof of its wrongness is in the fact that you do not build upon it. It is just an opinion of yours stated as if it is incontrovertible fact.

            Theories (like the stuff that means we expect the sun to rise in thje
            east tomorrow) have such very strong predictive power that we tend to
            give them “effectively proven” status.

            ***Where are you going with this? There’s no generally accepted theory of gravity, nor of HTSC, nor of LENR. The science boys were so enamored with the “effectively proven” status of the Higgs Boson that they fast-tracked experimental results which proved WRONG.

            there is no doubt that the rossi tests that you note exist, and contain
            data which trumps any theory. But without a theory there so very very
            many ways that data could be interpreted.

            ***With all due respect, this statement is hogwash.

            Those ways include:
            experimental error (of many different kinds)

            ***For the results of replications of LENR to be experimental error, the chances are arguably (1/3)^14720. Many, many, many, many many many orders of magnitude away from impossible. Off by 4500 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

            https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg79674.html

            deceit (of many different kinds)
            ***Well, then, ok. Good luck with your incredibly expanded conspiracy theories, which have zero to do with the necessity of a theory being in place. Do you accuse all of the HTSC researchers of deceit, just because they don’t have a theory in place? No, I didn’t think so.

            and so on.
            ***Horse manure.

          • psi2u2

            Of course, the sun does not really rise in the east. But maybe that’s nitpicking your argument.

            “The Rossi tests….contain data which trumps any theory.”

            Exactly. The smart people will start to realize that means that we need more, newer theories, or hypotheses, that might explain these “trumping” results. It doesn’t matter whether you call them LENR or something else – that is all a form of linguistic idolatry. What matters is that new ideas are needed to explain the results.

          • Warthog

            “there is no doubt that the rossi tests that you note exist, and contain
            data which trumps any theory. But without a theory there so very very
            many ways that data could be interpreted.”

            I wasn’t talking about Rossi, but the larger area of LENR. Again…the FIRST step in scientific proof is experimental replication. “IF” some form of explanation is offered along with the experimental data, at this stage, it best qualifies as a hypothesis. “IF” that hypothesis suggests other experiments that can be run, “IF” those tests are indeed run, and prove to agree with the original hypothesis, then that theoretical explanation advances to the stage of “theory”. LENR has long since passed this point….despite the fact that Nature, Science, many high-energy physicists, etc (and the skeptopaths that post here routinely) say it hasn’t.

            But it is NOT necessary for either the first experiment nor the replication to offer any explanation as to causation. Case in point…..the radioastronomical discovery of the universal microwave background. Neither the original discovery nor its experimental replication suggested a theoretical causation. Despite that, the discoverers of the original experiment were awarded a Nobel Prize for their discovery.

          • It is right that a theory is needed to publish in comics journal.
            If you follow pseudo scienc, and even bad LENR science, you see that they use too much theory, they base all their confidence in the theoy not on the evidences… that is a symptom.
            a modern variant is basing on computer models instead of measurements.

            what you say about “without a theory we cannot know it is LENR” is wrong.
            we can know it is nuclear even by sole heat because it cannot chemistry.
            moreover is have some coherence in the phenomenology.
            it is hydrogen, in transition metal lattice.
            few radiation, few tritium, fewer neutrons, triggered by high loading, by change in equilibrium, .

            Edmund Storms (read his book) explain well that coherencen, and propose even a separation from mild fusion, a lower energy hot fusion with neutrons, tritium, high energy… not LENR which is really not hot fusion at all.

          • AlbertNN

            But then you have some kind of theory of what LENR is, that it has larger energy potential than chemical, that it may involve hydrogen, metal lattices, few radiation etc. Even if loose, it is still a theory of what this thing that you call LENR is.

          • Mats001

            +1

          • chongching

            Homosepiens have used wood fire for thousands of years before actually having a theory about it.
            Pragmatic commercial products win!
            They surely didn’t wait for some stone-aged journal to approve the existence of fire.
            We want LENR. Just test it on your fingers, if it burns you a hole, that is good enough for us.

          • Kevin O

            Without the theory they will only be novel results that you do not have any explanation or theory of.
            ***That happens all the time with HTSC, gravity, and dark matter. But those papers get published.

            Simple fact is, this was a pissing match between electrochemists and physicists. Electrochemists lost 25 years ago, but some of them kept at it, and now the physicists are about to be handed their hats.

            LENR results have been replicated more than 14,700 times, according to the Chinese Academy of Science.

            Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons
            Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect.
            *
            http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)
            *

          • psi2u2

            Albert, my experience in the humanities suggests that paradigm shifts end up, not infrequently, *last* in the most highly accredited publications in a field. Isn’t the reason why this would be so pretty obvious?

            The established journals represent those of greatest authority at a given time within the field. This may be just because those who make it up are not just the best and the brightest but also the wisest and most far-seeing practitioners, but surely it is not hard to imagine other factors that might make these individuals or institutions not the most likely to be among the “early adopters” of a novel approach within their own field of expertise?

          • georgehants

            AlbertNN, 25 years of corruption and incompetence is what main-line science has shown.
            Wake-up, the establishment is a paid for bunch of wasters.Learn a few scientific principles and stop defending these scientific destroyers.

          • NT

            Hi Albert and welcome aboard,
            Would this LENR paper meet the basic standards for publication in either or both of these magazines as you have stated?
            http://www.brillouinenergy.com/Docs1/BrillouinEnergyHypothesis.pdf

        • Thomas Clarke

          AlbertNN,

          Sorry about the delay caused by moderation on this site –

          Good papers can get published. look at all the work by Holmlid et al. this is highly speculative, almost certainly wrong, but because it holds together it can be published.

          The problem with most LENR papers is that the theory does not support the evidence, which is all over the place. There are theories, but they support only parts of the evidence and they do not make experimental predictions that can subsequenytly be confirmed. the few that have made positive predictions (Kim’s BEC theory) have been disproved by experiment.

          If the theory is so weak that nothing can disprove it then it is not preferable to current theory.

          • Kevin O

            the few that have made positive predictions (Kim’s BEC theory) have been disproved by experiment.
            ***Would you please elaborate? I hadn’t heard that Kim’s BEC theory had been disproven by experiment.

      • Thomas Clarke

        Top tier Journals continue to publish LENR articles. For example the ultra-dense deuterium articles from Holmlid et al were published as below.

        There are however many articles of lesser quality that don’t get published, for understandable reasons.

        Also, when looking at the available data, scientists will not necessarily agree with the polemic viewpoint of this blog. There is as yet no coherent theory of LENR that explains the published anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated. And there are no published anomalies that provide indisputable evidence for new physics. Till that happens anomalies are interesting but fairly normal, certainly not enough to overturn existing theories.

        210. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fast atoms and negative chain cluster fragments from laser-induced Coulomb explosions in a super-fluid film of ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”. Phys. Scripta, accepted.

        209. L. Holmlid, “Method and apparatus for generating energy through inertial confinement fusion”.
        Patentansökan.

        208. F. Olofson and L. Holmlid, “Superfluid ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) on polymer surfaces: structure and density changes at a polymer-metal boundary”.
        J. Appl. Phys. 111, 123502 (2012);DOI: 10.1063/1.4729078

        207. F. Olofson, A. Ehn, J. Bood, L. Holmlid, “Large intensities of MeV particles and strong charge ejections from laser-induced fusion in ultra-dense deuterium”.
        39th EPS Conference & 16th Int. Congress on Plasma Physics, Stockholm, 2012; 12-02-20, P1.105.

        206. F. Olofson and L. Holmlid, “Detection of MeV particles from ultra-dense protium p(-1): laser-initiated self-compression from p(1)”.
        Nucl. Intr. Meth. B 278 (2012) 34-41. DOI: 10.1016/j.nimb.2012.01.036.

        205 L. Holmlid, “MeV particles from laser-initiated processes in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”.
        Eup. Phys. J. A 48 (2012) 11. DOI: 10.1140/epja/i2012-12011-0.

        204. P.U. Andersson, L. Holmlid, and S.R. Fuelling, “Search for superconductivity in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) at room temperature: depletion of D(-1) at field strength > 0.05 T”.
        J. Supercond. Novel Magn. 25 (2012) 873-882. DOI: 10.1007/s10948-011-1371-6.

        203. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Cluster ions DN+ ejected from dense and ultra-dense deuterium by Coulomb explosions: fragment rotation and D+ backscattering from ultra-dense clusters in the surface phase”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 310 (2012) 32-43. DOI: 10.1016/j.ijms.2011.11.004

        202. L. Holmlid, “Experimental studies of clusters of Rydberg matter and its extreme dense forms”. Invited review.
        J. Cluster Sci. 23 (2012) 5-34. DOI: 10.1007/s10876-011-0417-z.

        201. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fusion generated fast particles by laser impact on ultra-dense deuterium: rapid variation with laser intensity”.
        J. Fusion Energy 31 (2012) 249-256. DOI 10.1007/s10894-011-9468-2.

        200. L. Holmlid, “Sub-nanometer distances and cluster shapes in dense hydrogen and in higher levels of hydrogenRydberg Matter by phase-delay spectroscopy”.
        J. Nanopart. Res. 13 (2011) 5535-5546. DOI 10.1007/s11051-011-0543-4..

        199. L. Holmlid, “Diffuse interstellar bands (DIB) in space: almost all bands calculated from co-planar doubly excited He and metal atoms embedded in Rydberg Matter”.
        Astrophys. Space Sci. 336 (2011) 391-412. DOI 10.1007/s10509-011-0795-6.

        198. L. Holmlid, “Deuterium clusters DN and mixed K-D and D-H clusters of Rydberg Matter: high temperatures and strong coupling to ultra-dense deuterium”.
        J. Cluster Sci. 23 (2012) 95-114. DOI 10.1007/s10876-011-0387-1.

        197. L. Holmlid, “High-charge Coulomb explosions of clusters in ultra-dense deuterium D(-1)”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 304 (2011) 51–56. doi: 10.1016/j.ijms.2011.04.001.

        196. P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Superfluid ultra-dense deuterium D(-1) at room temperature”.
        Phys. Lett. A 375 (2011) 1344–1347. doi:10.1016/j.physleta.2011.01.035.

        195. L. Holmlid, “Large ion clusters HN+ of Rydberg Matter: stacks of planar clusters H7”.
        Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 300 (2011) 50-58. doi:10.1016/j.ijms.2010.12.008.

        194. P. U. Andersson, B. Lönn and L. Holmlid, “Efficient source for the production of ultra-dense deuteriumD(-1) for laser-induced fusion (ICF)”. Rev. Sci. Instrum. 82 (2011) 013503. doi:10.1063/1.3514985.

        193. M. Trebala, W. Rozek, L. Holmlid, M. Molenda, and A. Kotarba,”Potassium stabilization in ß-K2Fe22O34 by Cr and Ce doping studied by field reversal method”. Solid State Ionics (2011) . doi:10.1016/j.ssi.2010.08.004.

        192. L. Holmlid, “Common forms of alkali metals – new Rydberg Matter clusters of potassium and hydrogen”. J. Clust. Sci 21 (2010) 637-653. DOI: 10.1007/s10876-010-0291-0.

        191. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Laser-driven nuclear fusion D+D in ultra-dense deuterium: MeV particles formed without ignition”. Laser Part. Beams 28 (2010) 313-317 doi:10.1017/S0263034610000236.

        190. P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Deuteron energy of 15 MK in a surface phase of ultra-dense deuteriumwithout plasma formation: temperature of the interior of the Sun”. Phys. Lett. A 374 (2010) 2856–2860
        DOI: 10.1016/j.physleta.2010.03.009

        189. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Production of ultra-dense deuterium, a compact future fusion fuel”. Appl. Phys. Lett. 96 (2010) 124103. doi:10.1063/1.3371718.

        188. F. Olofson, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Rydberg Matter clusters of alkali metal atoms: the link between meteoritic matter, polar mesosphere summer echoes (PMSE), sporadic sodium layers, polar mesospheric clouds (PMCs, NLCs), and ion chemistry in the mesosphere”. arXiv.org 10-02-08, astro-ph/1002.1570. http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.1570

        187. S. Badiei, P.U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Laser-induced variable pulse-power TOF-MS and neutral time-of-flight studies of ultra-dense deuterium”. Phys. Scripta 81 (2010) 045601. doi: 10.1088/0031-8949/81/04/045601.

        186. P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Ultra-dense deuterium: a possible nuclear fuel for inertial confinement fusion (ICF)”. Phys. Letters A 373 (2009) 3067–3070. doi:10.1016/j.physleta.2009.06.046.

        185. L. Holmlid, H. Hora, G. Miley and X. Yang, “Ultrahigh-density deuterium of Rydberg matter clusters for inertial confinement fusion targets”. Laser and Particle Beams 27 (2009) 529–532.

        184. A. Kotarba and L. Holmlid, “Energy-pooling transitions to doubly excited K atoms at a promoted
        iron-oxide catalyst surface: more than 30 eV available for reaction”. Phys. Chem. Chem. Phys. 11 (2009) 4351-4359. DOI: 10.1039/b817380j.

        183. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “High-energy Coulomb explosions in ultra-dense deuterium: time-of-flight mass spectrometry with variable energy and flight length”. Int. J. Mass Spectrom. 282 (2009) 70-76.Link to abstract and paper.

        182. L. Holmlid, “Nm interatomic distances in Rydberg Matter clusters confirmed by phase-delay spectroscopy”. J. Nanopart. Res. 12 (2010) 273-284. DOI 10.1007/s11051-009-9605-2.

        181. L. Holmlid, “Light in condensed matter in the upper atmosphere as the origin of homochirality: circularly polarized light from Rydberg Matter”. Astrobiol. 9 (2009) 535-542.

        180. L. Holmlid, “Nuclear spin transitions in the kHz range in Rydberg Matter clusters give precise values of the internal magnetic field from orbiting Rydberg electrons”. Chem. Phys. 358 (2009) 61–67.

        179. S. Badiei, P. U. Andersson and L. Holmlid, “Fusion reactions in high-density hydrogen: a fast route to small-scale fusion?” Int. J. Hydr. Energy 34 (2009) 487-495. Link to abstract and paper.

        • Kevin O

          There is as yet no coherent theory of LENR that explains the published
          anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated.
          ***There is as yet no coherent theory of High Temperature SuperConductivity (HTSC) that explains the published anomalies and makes solid predictions that have been validated. The same goes with gravity.

          And there are no published anomalies that provide indisputable evidence for
          new physics.
          ***That is because anomalies are loudly shouted down when there is an entrenched group of people who stand to gain by there being no anomalies to investigate (in this case, high temperature fusioneers who are sucking on the guvmint teet and developing Nuke weapons). That’s why HTSC results are regularly published but LENR results aren’t… there was no entrenched group who stood to lose their funding in HTSC.

          • Thomas Clarke

            My reply to this would be that as the work of Holmlid et al I’ve posted on this thread, LENR anomalies most certainly are published, when experiments are written up in a convincing way. Scientists like anomalies, especially when presented with a coherent story.

            Whether such stories gain traction depends on their predictivity.

            HTSC theory is predictive, it proposes a mechanism which explains (most) of the HTSC data and which is not a step in the dark because it comes from quantum solid state theory which is supported by a wide range of other experiments. Related mechanisms look like they explain the rest. It is not a finished article because the interactions in materials are complex and (it now seems) there are multiple ways in which boson-like interactions can be engendered in lattices, not just Cooper pairs of electrons.

            So: for coherent theory I’d say the idea that within a lattice electrons, or other fermionic particles, can pair up to make bosonic pseudo-particles that multiply populate a single low energy state. You can see all you need is a bandgap between the low energy state and others, and some interaction that gives rise to bosonic behaviour. Complex because of the many possible pseudo-particles that can result and the many interactions that determine the size of the bandgap. Not complete because we have not investigated all of this stuff yet. Quantitative and predictive because you can investigate state transition energies in other ways and relate that to onset of superconductivity.

          • Kevin O

            LENR anomalies most certainly are published, when experiments are
            written up in a convincing way. Scientists like anomalies, especially
            when presented with a coherent story.
            ***You sound like a LENR newbie. LENR research has been actively suppressed for 2 decades. As an example, Ed Storms submitted one of his research articles to 42 different journals before getting past “peer” review. That isn’t happening in HTSC because there isn’t a group of government paid activists shooting down the research wherever they find it.

            Whether such stories gain traction depends on their predictivity.
            ***Nonsense. It depends upon whether there’s a group of well paid anti-scientific antagonists hounding the effort. HTSC has no such problem; LENR does.

          • HTSC were also suppressed for some years, forced to be published as footnote not to have the paper rejected

            http://www.mosaicsciencemagazine.org/pdf/m18_03_87_04.pdf

            “Footnotes

            In fact, says James L. Smith, director of the Center for Materials Science of Los Alamos National Laboratory, the first two heavy-fermion superconductors discovered were originally reported as footnotes, because they were so unbelievable.

            Smith heads the Physical Metallurgy Group of the Materials Science and Technology Division at Los Alamos, and with colleagues Zachary Fisk and Jeffrey O. Willis, has done pioneering work in the discovery of new heavy fermion systems.”

            It is very common to have history rewritten to hide academic stupidity and misfunction.
            Watson&crick explain how DNBA was attacked untile the public success.

            Schechtmann explains well howe he was insulted by linus pauling.
            http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jan/06/dan-shechtman-nobel-prize-chemistry-interview

            just read that long list of stupidity
            http://amasci.com/weird/vindac.html

    • Thomas Clarke

      @Gerrit99:disqus

      You and others here are in danger of misunderstanding what peer review means. it is merely a filter to cut out a lot of rubbish and improve the quality (through criticism) of all the papers that do get published.

      Papers published in no way means their arguments are true. Just less likely to be obviously inconsistent or obviously insubstantial.

      And it is true some Journals are harder work to publish in, requiring a higher standard of rigor and/or a higher amount of novelty.

      Strong evidence of LENR+ levels of heat production from an independent and reputable team would get published anywhere. It would be a major and interesting anomaly. As with the FTL neutrino evidence it would probably be shot down, and also would prompt good quality replication.

      The Lugano report in its current form is not strong evidence – the only evidence that is very strong is the ash but that alas is clearly not independent having been handled by Rossi. Scientists are not good at detecting sleight of hand, so observation would not help. The X3.3 anomaly makes the COP evidence very tainted. The Lugano report also contains quite a number of errors and issues that would make the COP result questionable, though maybe strong enough to be interesting, otherwise.

      • Gerrit

        I think my understanding of the peer review process is quite realistic. You are certainly aware of Schekman’s criticism of the top tier journals and its negative impact on scientific research.

        The LENR anomaly has been reported upon in 100s of peer reviewed papers and yet funding decisions are significantly influenced by the likelyhood of research papers getting published in top tier journals. Career paths for scientists are obviously influenced by the available funding for certains fields of research. And the top tier journals can select at their own discretion what they accept for peer review.

        It is naive to believe that the only metric for getting published in the top tier journals is the quality of the paper. It is more about fashion. Yet too often I have heard scientists says that they believe something only when it gets published in Nature or Science. That is where this whole peer review system is failing.

        • Thomas Clarke

          People are not perfect. Scientists judgement of what is good/bad etc is very imperfect. So any system which improves quality will make mistakes. and some people will see these mistakes (possibly be on the wrong end of them) and complain.

          There are tens of thousands of journals, 100s of high quality ones. The many LENR papers from Holmlid I posted show that good work can be published in any number of different decent journals, and that there is in principle no prejudice against LENR.

          Yes there will be prejudice – people are human. Scientific papers in any area get turned down because of the personal quirks of the referes. That is Ok – if they are good they will be published elsewhere, with different referees. If they have real faults, those can be mended and the paper submitted for republication. Frankly there are very few papers that get through into a journal without significant calls for improvement first.

          The merit of the system is its catholicism. There is no central guiding hand, and individual editors will have their own ideas, as well individual referees. Quality wins out in the end.

          You also mistake the nature of scientific progress. No new theory is “believed”. It is first proposed, it makes predictions, those are compared with new evidence. Theories that are highly predictive get a high weight of probability.

          LENR has not yet got to the stage of being a theory that makes testable and falsifiable predictions, which is why most scientists will say they don’t see much evidence for it.

          Anomalies happen. Easily. Proving that an anomaly could not be something boring like mistake, unexpected error source, or even deliberate distortion takes a lot of effort. Only a very few of the LENR researchers make this effort. The LENR companies it seems never do this. Each demo they have is completely different, or is identical to the old with the same potential errors no more investigated.

          MFMP are the only people I know who stick with one experiment collecting results, adding instrumentation and control, testing error mechanisms, in an attempt to see whether an anomaly is LENR or something else. And publish their data so that others can critique it and suggest error mechanisms.

          You can see from their work that this process is needed, errors are common, almost inevitable.

          I guess you may say the above arguments are those which pseudo-skeptics make. In which case I’ll shut up, you have heard them before. But I hope you will help me with the following. Tell me, where other than from MFMP can I find repeated incremental calibration, hypothesising over calibration anomalies, use of different controls, checking of active vs control anomalies, etc, all on the same experiment to drill down and differentiate between error and reality?

          I’d be interested in which of these three things you, and others here, think:

          (1) All this stuff is in fact done by other researchers having positive results but not showing it, you accept this on authority.

          (2) All this stuff is done by other researchers and published – I’m just not looking (in which case point me to good examples of it, I’d be interested).

          (3) This level of integrity is not needed. There is enough evidence without it. In this case you might want to take MFMP as a counterexample. They have been replicating what they think are the best experiments and getting null results – in many cases finding the precise error mechanisms that led to the positives.

          There are other people, less well known, good experimentalists, doing replications like MFMP. Earthtech, and some other guy that MFMP went to visit whom I now can’t remember. They are not well known because they have not yet found any positive results from replications.

          • Gerrit

            I do not know where you got the impression that I do not understand the nature of scientific progress. Over the years many theories have been proposed, some better than others. Most likely several of them would have made testable predictions. In order to advance those theories and discard the others by providing contradicting evidence you’ll need to secure funding first. Without adequate funding you basically deny scientific progress, or at least slow it down severely.

            You probably know about SKINR. Although we don’t hear much from them, I get the impression that they are working on producing evidence that can lead to better theory proposals.

            Regarding incremental calibrations. If you were aware of the work performed at SRI and NRL you would probably find that they have done all of the things you ask for.

            It should be clear that LENR companies follow their own development path which is not compatible to scientific progress. You should avoid mixing up the two approaches.

            My viewpoint is that there is credible evidence that an anomaly exists and that sufficient funding should be made available to find out what this anomaly is all about and actually get scientific progress.

  • theotherone

    A potential PR opportunity for MFMP fund raising if appropriate comments were added to the HP article.

  • What’s becoming clear is that this site and others that relentlessly present the facts and offer clear-minded analysis of the situation are starting to carry the day.

    Finally.

    For new readers that come across this thread, a small but growing community has been trying to call attention to LENR for years now. We’ve done our homework. LENR is real. The E-Cat is almost certainly real (the only alternative being a mind-blowing never-seen before and utterly pointless megascam and mass conspiracy).

    LENR is a game-changer.

  • What’s becoming clear is that this site and others that relentlessly present the facts and offer clear-minded analysis of the situation are starting to carry the day.

    Finally.

    For new readers that come across this thread, a small but growing community has been trying to call attention to LENR for years now. We’ve done our homework. LENR is real. The E-Cat is almost certainly real (the only alternative being a mind-blowing never-seen before and utterly pointless megascam and mass conspiracy).

    LENR is a game-changer.

  • Curbina

    And to add to the water leaking from the proverbial dam, an English version of the University of Verona article has been published, and I think it clears the matter a lot:

    “Gates, taken to the laboratories by Professor Testa and by the scientists of the Centre, wanted to discover the research activities in the field of low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR), more known as cold fusion, led in the institute.

    As a matter of fact, the Enea Frascati Research Centre is considered a high quality centre in this field on a worldwide level. Some of the most qualified scientists in the world in the field of cold fusion, such as Vittorio Violante, studied in this centre. For this reason, the USA involved the Enea, only Non-American agency, in a research program of scientific great importance in the field of LENR.”

    http://www.univrmagazine.it/sito/vedi_articolo.php?id=2820

    • GreenWin

      Thanks for this Curbina. With the new Huffington P article, let’s hope Prof Testa amends his comments to make clear that Gates is NOT interested in hot fusion (its time has passed) – rather, Gates and other humanitarian organizations should insist on and accelerate the transition to LENR.

      • Curbina

        I miss a comments section in the Huff Post article, is there one?

        • ecatworld

          I believe you have to use Facebook for HP comments. They came out with a real name comment policy recently.

          • Curbina

            Yes, I read it first in my mobile, and the comment’s were not showing. Now that I read it from the PC, I could comment via Facebook. I posted this: “I like this blog post, but I think that the authors give much emphasis
            to a peer review process that is known to be easily subject to bias.
            Julian Schwinger (Physics Nobel Prize winner together with Richard
            Feynman and Sin Itiro Tomonaga), was the first to experience the bias
            against LENR when trying to publish theory to explain the results. He
            even abandoned the ACS for this. Other Nobel prize winner that denounces
            the bias against LENR is Brian Josephson. I’m not claiming that the
            peer review is not necessary, just that in this case has failed
            miserably, and this is not sufficiently stressed out by the authors.”

        • GreenWin

          HERE is a very adroit comment from HP “Top Commenter” Leanard Weinstein, Senior Research Fellow at National Inst. Aerospace:

          “The authors start out accepting the discredited IPCC positions on global warming (no warming other than ENSO variation since 1998, and no models show skill at any realistic time scale), and go downhill from there a while before turning to the energy issue. There they take more positions, such as supporting hot fusion, which has cost many billion dollars, with little to show for it, and no realistic chance for even passing break even in many decades if ever (which is still worthless-you need much more than a net COP of 3 to make net power). They then get on the peer review bandwagon which has crashed. Peer review is a good filter, but neither proves or rejects most work, and has been badly abused by many, especially in the global warming debate…

          Supporters of LENR asked for support to develop the technology, but were treated poorly. When Rossi and others went out on their own, and made progress, they were then told to give the results away, since it would be so valuable to society. Instead, they chose to keep some details secret to allow them to make profit from the advance. As to the lack of theory before publishing data, that is a big joke. Most astronomical results show data results, and theories come and go later. Superconductors were observer well before a theory was developed. In fact, most scientific advances were observed, and then theories attempted. Do we even have a theory for gravity at present?”

          • Curbina

            Yep, very insightfull comment. I hope the authors take notice of the comments.

          • Bruce Williams

            This last paragraph is EXCELLENT !

          • Kevin O

            I have written the same exact defense of LENR almost word for word. Now we have Johnny-come-latelies saying the same thing but people listen because of who they are in terms of position in our society. Science is supposed to be free from such cultural bigotry but it isn’t.

  • Curbina

    And to add to the water leaking from the proverbial dam, an English version of the University of Verona article has been published, and I think it clears the matter a lot:

    “Gates, taken to the laboratories by Professor Testa and by the scientists of the Centre, wanted to discover the research activities in the field of low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR), more known as cold fusion, led in the institute.

    As a matter of fact, the Enea Frascati Research Centre is considered a high quality centre in this field on a worldwide level. Some of the most qualified scientists in the world in the field of cold fusion, such as Vittorio Violante, studied in this centre. For this reason, the USA involved the Enea, only Non-American agency, in a research program of scientific great importance in the field of LENR.”

    http://www.univrmagazine.it/sito/vedi_articolo.php?id=2820

    • GreenWin

      Thanks for this Curbina. With the new Huffington P article, let’s hope Prof Testa amends his comments to make clear that Gates is NOT interested in hot fusion (its time has passed) – rather, Gates and other humanitarian organizations should insist on and accelerate the transition to LENR.

      • Curbina

        I miss a comments section in the Huff Post article, is there one?

        • Frank Acland

          I believe you have to use Facebook for HP comments. They came out with a real name comment policy recently.

          • Curbina

            Yes, I read it first in my mobile, and the comment’s were not showing. Now that I read it from the PC, I could comment via Facebook. I posted this: “I like this blog post, but I think that the authors give much emphasis
            to a peer review process that is known to be easily subject to bias.
            Julian Schwinger (Physics Nobel Prize winner together with Richard
            Feynman and Sin Itiro Tomonaga), was the first to experience the bias
            against LENR when trying to publish theory to explain the results. He
            even abandoned the ACS for this. Other Nobel prize winner that denounces
            the bias against LENR is Brian Josephson. I’m not claiming that the
            peer review is not necessary, just that in this case has failed
            miserably, and this is not sufficiently stressed out by the authors.”

        • GreenWin

          HERE is a very adroit comment from HP “Top Commenter” Leanard Weinstein, Senior Research Fellow at National Inst. Aerospace:

          “The authors start out accepting the discredited IPCC positions on global warming (no warming other than ENSO variation since 1998, and no models show skill at any realistic time scale), and go downhill from there a while before turning to the energy issue. There they take more positions, such as supporting hot fusion, which has cost many billion dollars, with little to show for it, and no realistic chance for even passing break even in many decades if ever (which is still worthless-you need much more than a net COP of 3 to make net power). They then get on the peer review bandwagon which has crashed. Peer review is a good filter, but neither proves or rejects most work, and has been badly abused by many, especially in the global warming debate…

          Supporters of LENR asked for support to develop the technology, but were treated poorly. When Rossi and others went out on their own, and made progress, they were then told to give the results away, since it would be so valuable to society. Instead, they chose to keep some details secret to allow them to make profit from the advance. As to the lack of theory before publishing data, that is a big joke. Most astronomical results show data results, and theories come and go later. Superconductors were observer well before a theory was developed. In fact, most scientific advances were observed, and then theories attempted. Do we even have a theory for gravity at present?”

          • Curbina

            Yep, very insightfull comment. I hope the authors take notice of the comments.

          • Bruce Williams

            This last paragraph is EXCELLENT !

          • Kevin O

            I have written the same exact defense of LENR almost word for word. Now we have Johnny-come-latelies saying the same thing but people listen because of who they are in terms of position in our society. Science is supposed to be free from such cultural bigotry but it isn’t.

        • Anon2012_2014

          “I miss a comments section in the Huff Post article, is there one?”

          Login with your facebook account. This is how Huff Post monetizes.

  • Curbina

    There are plenty of Dams on desert areas Bachcole, they are mostly needed when the water is scarce.

  • I too salute their courage. Every non-LENR scientist that comes out in favor of looking more deeply into this area is helping to move things along.

    The potential benefits are so large and the amount of money and resources needed to explore the science of LENR so small relative to other scientific efforts that it’s imperative that it happen as soon as possible. There’s really no reason to debate it. It’s a clear path and the only reason it has not been taken is resistance from those in a position to resist.

  • US_Citizen71

    I suggest that anyone wanting to further the cause of LENR share a link to that article via social media. The Huffington Post is a big enough name to get many to read that blog post. Getting the knowledge out to the masses is one good way of increasing the pressure behind the dam.

  • US_Citizen71

    I suggest that anyone wanting to further the cause of LENR share a link to that article via social media. The Huffington Post is a big enough name to get many to read that blog post. Getting the knowledge out to the masses is one good way of increasing the pressure behind the dam.

  • AlbertNN

    It is a pity it takes so long for my replies to get accepted, when they at all are accepted. It really reduces my interest in discussing LENR at this site, and makes it more into a walled garden for a clique with exactly the same ideas. Which does not make for interesting reading, and is far removed from the scientific ideal.

    • US_Citizen71

      Moderation of new posters is a fairly common thing in forums. The formula typically takes into account how many posts you have made and how long you have been posting to the forum. This prevents drive by postings that amount to yelling fire in a movie theater. Keep posting eventually your posts will stop being moderated.

    • builditnow

      Reading all your comments below I wonder if you are an editor at Nature. Your main argument is: “there has to be theory before any observation of facts can be presented in Nature or Science or anywhere for that matter”.
      I challenge you to sit down for a few hours and think of all the discoveries that were “observed” “before” the theory was developed.
      Now imagine removing all these discoveries from our lives, as if the peer RearView rags like Nature could have prevented their publication. Stone tools are out. Fire is out. The wheel is gone. Pointy sticks are out. We would not even be in the stone age. The human race probably would not be here today.

      Are you still attempting to prevent publishing on LENR in Nature?
      Are you trying to coverup the evidence of your involvement in suppressing publication?
      Are you involved in a massive crime against the planet?

    • Ged

      We don’t have a complete theory of quantum gravity or know if it is even a thing for sure, but we peer-review publish competing articles about observations related to it quite often. Or what about the nature of Dark Matter? You are also patently wrong: numerous, mathematically/experimentally possible theories for how the LENR process works have been proposed by academics, such as NAE theory and linear two-body bose-einstein theory, to name but a Few.

      So, none of the ignorant sounding nonesense. This site has many links to such theories if you but search to gain the required education.

      • Kevin O

        “linear two-body bose-einstein theory”

        ***That sounds a lot like my V1DLLBEC theory.

        http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l%40eskimo.com&q=v1dllbec&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

        Do you have more information & detail on this theory you mention?

        • Ged

          Aye, look up Dr. Kim at Purdue. Here is a link to one of his papershttp://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/APFB-FewBodySystems.pdf

      • Thomas Clarke

        The issue is whether any such theory makes predictions that are afterwards validated. Easy for a theory to take existing data and mold itself to them. Much harder for a theory to make definite predictions and thereby be proved wrong if it is wrong.

        Now: which of these theories make definite (not yet tested) new predictions that allow them to be confirmed or proved wrong? I’ll be interested in looking at them. I have looked at quite a lot of these theories already.

        • Ged

          I am honestly surprised. This has been talked about alot here. I guess we need a permanent resource for folks.

          No theory is a theory if it doesn’t have a testable hypothesis as its foundation, by definition. So the answer is, obviously, yes.

          Check out Dr. Kim’s (Purdue University) published papers on the matter, such as this one http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/APFB-FewBodySystems.pdf

          He has many papers on this with testable results. His linear two body bose-einstein condensate theory is the one I feel the evidence most favors, but again, there are other theories with testable predictions, such as those by Edmond Storms.

  • AlbertNN

    It is a pity it takes so long for my replies to get accepted, when they at all are accepted. It really reduces my interest in discussing LENR at this site, and makes it more into a walled garden for a clique with exactly the same ideas. Which does not make for interesting reading, and is far removed from the scientific ideal.

    • US_Citizen71

      Moderation of new posters is a fairly common thing in forums. The formula typically takes into account how many posts you have made and how long you have been posting to the forum. This prevents drive by postings that amount to yelling fire in a movie theater. Keep posting eventually your posts will stop being moderated.

      edit: Also those you reply to typically can read your comment immediately if they are signed into Discus, they just can’t reply until your comment is published.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Albert,

      There are so many “LENR religious” crazies in LENR, particularly between “believers” and “skeptics”, that they fight sometimes impolitely. The moderator stops this from getting uncivil which serves no purpose. Go checkout “Independent ECAT News” to see how the skeptics treat each other — name calling and all. That is life on the open internet.

      • psi2u2

        I disagree entirely that moderation should facilitate the lack of civility found at Ecat News. If you want to participate in those uncivil discussions, that is the place to go. I come here precisely because moderation keeps the more aggressive and less substantive expressions of “skepticism” — or blanket condemnations of “science” — on a reasoned path, and encourages persons with diverse viewpoints to have discussion that may be generally enlightening.

        • Anon2012_2014

          “I disagree entirely that moderation should facilitate the lack of civility”

          I never said that. I like moderation to prevent people from behaving boorishly. I don’t understand why the ECN people talk the way they do to each other.

          • psi2u2

            Thanks for the clarification. I apologize if I misconstrued your position.

          • Anon2012_2014

            No problem psi2u2,

            Anon12/14

        • bachcole

          I frequent only HERE (concerning cold fusion) precisely because it is moderated to keep hurtful and savage comments out. In my opinion, it is hurtful and savage comments and funding policies that have created the problem that we are in. It would be completely foolish for us to encourage or allow it here. Frank is taking a first step in ending an attitude of savagery that needs to stop if we are going to have freedom in the scientific community.

          • psi2u2

            Exactly.

    • builditnow

      Reading all your comments below I wonder if you are an editor at Nature. Your main argument is: “there has to be theory before any observation of facts can be presented in Nature or Science or anywhere for that matter”.
      I challenge you to sit down for a few hours and think of all the discoveries that were “observed” “before” the theory was developed.
      Now imagine removing all these discoveries from our lives, as if the peer RearView rags like Nature could have prevented their publication. Stone tools are out. Fire is out. The wheel is gone. Pointy sticks are out. We would not even be in the stone age. The human race probably would not be here today.

      Are you still attempting to prevent publishing on LENR in Nature?
      Are you trying to coverup the evidence of your involvement in suppressing publication?
      Are you involved in a massive crime against the planet?

      • AlbertNN

        No, i am not an editor. But I have discussed with them on occasions. And be aware that to get into Nature and Science is an art, there is even special seminars given on how to organise a project and write the paper to have a chance to get into these journals.

        And nobody has said that to be published in these two journals are a prerequisite for something to be scientific. There is even a number of Nobel prices that were never published there, as far as I know.

        • Mats002

          Thanks for clearing this out. We are just seeking the truth.

      • bachcole

        Outstanding!!!!

    • Ged

      We don’t have a complete theory of quantum gravity or know if it is even a thing for sure, but we peer-review publish competing articles about observations related to it quite often. Or what about the nature of Dark Matter? You are also patently wrong: numerous, mathematically possible/experimentally testable theories for how the LENR process works have been proposed by academics, such as NAE theory and linear two-body bose-einstein theory, to name but a Few.

      So, none of the ignorant sounding nonesense. This site has many links to such theories if you but search to gain the required education.

      • Kevin O

        “linear two-body bose-einstein theory”

        ***That sounds a lot like my V1DLLBEC theory.

        http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l%40eskimo.com&q=v1dllbec&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

        Do you have more information & detail on this theory you mention?

        • Ged

          Aye, look up Dr. Kim at Purdue. Here is a link to one of his papershttp://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/APFB-FewBodySystems.pdf

          • Kevin O

            I read that paper when it came out, and have been in email contact with Dr. Kim. That paper is not a “linear two-body bose-einstein theory”.

          • Ged

            That is the theory that paper is based on, more or less. Or rather, BEC theory is a much larger framework that that LTB is only a part of.

            So fair enough. This is the paper of Dr. Kim’s that is specifically LTBBEC: http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/8_Equivalent_Linear_two_body.pdf

          • Kevin O

            Thanks for the link. It will take some time for me to absorb it.

            Here’s a tidbit worth bringing up:

            The theoretical aspects of the BEC in highly elongated shaped traps

            ~ quasi-one-dimensional re-gime have been reported in many papers

            ***That sure sounds like a V1DLLBEC to me. Of course, this paper is from 2002, about ten years earlier than the paper you originally cited. How was this theory disproven?

          • Ged

            V1DLLBEC may well be the more viable theory. We just need experiments designed to test it. After all, many body linear BEC is an extension of TBL, and Kim’s work has continued to advance making TBL potentially outdated. But we don’t know more till specifically tested (I am not aware if that has happened yet).

      • Thomas Clarke

        The issue is whether any such theory makes predictions that are afterwards validated. Easy for a theory to take existing data and mold itself to them. Much harder for a theory to make definite predictions and thereby be proved wrong if it is wrong.

        Now: which of these theories make definite (not yet tested) new predictions that allow them to be confirmed or proved wrong? I’ll be interested in looking at them. I have looked at quite a lot of these theories already.

        • Ged

          I am honestly surprised. This has been talked about alot here. I guess we need a permanent resource for folks.

          No theory is a theory if it doesn’t have a testable hypothesis as its foundation, by definition. So the answer is, obviously, yes.

          Check out Dr. Kim’s (Pudue University) published papers on the matter, such as this one http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/APFB-FewBodySystems.pdf&ved=0CCUQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNHXTrT_ywvlG3-VC1QMC2-dlQykog&sig2=5SF2nwz8WIBO1ToTpyQeGQ (note that this particular one is from 2008, long before the current e-cat and other LENR attempts data came along, so you can evaluate its old predictions with the new data where posdible)

          He has many papers on this with testable results. His linear two body bose-einstein condensate theory is the one I feel the evidence most favors, but again, there are other theories with testable predictions, such as those by Edmond Storms.

          • Thomas Clarke

            I think you mean:

            http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/naturwis-printed-pub.pdf

            Kim would be my example of someone proposing testable theories, and I’ve followed his work.

            His theory (BEC formation to surmount Coulomb barrier) deals with only half of the experimental problem – the lack of evidence of high energy products from nuclear reactions is not addressed. That is, Kim expects to find these but the experimental evidence is not good.

            Kim’s theory also requires deuterons and therefore would not work with H/Ni systems.

            However it is respectable in the sense that it has a clear fingerprint – BECs require low temperatures and so LENR effects should be more visible then. Kim himself tried to find this type of temperature dependence, and failed.

            So my summary of this work is: respectable hypothesis which is contradicted by the experimental evidence.

            Hagelstein is the theorist trying hardest to deal with the reaction product problem. He has a very clear understanding of the nature of the problem, and on what is needed to overcome it. Unfortunately so far he has not found any viable hypothesis, though he has done some interesting work on frameworks for solving phonon/nuclear reaction transition rates.

            I’m not familiar with Storms’ work. I was not aware that he had any training in quantum mechanics, without which not much can be done…

          • Ged

            Actually, Kim’s work on BECNF specifically applies to hydrogen-nickle systems as well, he even directly mentions the e-cat in his 2013 paper and shows the conditions for which BECNF would apply. I don’t see where he hasn’t already addressed the points you bring up with the BECNF theory framework. See also in 2011: http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/BECNF-Ni-Hydrogen.pdf

            As an alternative, here’s an interesting theoretical take I just found: http://vixra.org/pdf/1401.0169v1.pdf

          • Thomas Clarke

            OK,

            I am just looking at what you suggest.

            http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/publications/yekim/BECNF-Ni-Hydrogen.pdf

            This newer version of the BEC idea does not really make any new predictions. It has been tweaked to match what (some people think) happens in Ni-H systems. Unfortunately that match is not the theory making new predictions which are subsequently observed, so there is no way the theory is falsifiable on that basis. So I see this modified theory as being much less strong.

            Even so it does not match observations. Cu ash has never to my knowledge been observed from Ni-H reactions (you will remember Rossi’s ash was wrong isotopically to be from the reaction and now is stated by Rossi to be some substituted material given to Kullander who unfortunately did not seem at the time to be aware of the substitution. Alas he is now dead so we will never get his side of this story.

            So my point remains – far from the scientific establishment ignoring LENR many people have tried to find theories that fit the fragmentary evidence and so far none do. That is the scientific establishment being rational, because anomalous results as observed all have other hypotheses (experimental error etc). When you consider how partially results are reported – no-one will want to do experiments with negative anomalous errors – the large number of positives is not surprising. And the evidence that would be a sure sign of nuclear reactions – transmutation, high energy products – does not exist in any significant form. (The evidence that exists at very low levels fits contamination or misinterpretation rather than the predicted byproducts).

            Incidentally, Kim does not in any of his papers address the central issue of high energy products. He notes that they can exist but gives no mechanism for them not existing. It is pretty clear that if LENR is real it is some mechanism that both deals with the Coulomb barrier and spreads the high nuclear product energies over thousands of particles. This “fractionation” is really the most problematic thing, theoretically, and I’d recommend to you Hagelstein’s recent work, 2011 and more recently 2013.

            Let me challenge you: is there any theory that has made substantive predictions only found true after the predictions were made? That is the hallmark of a successful mold-breaking theory.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            If you go through the literature, you will find plenty of evidence for transmutations. Regarding the often ‘missing’ radiation, Widom & Larsen claim in this patent application

            http://www.google.com/patents/WO2007030740A2?cl=en

            that gammas can be shielded by SPPs (collective phenomena similar to BECs). I do not know, however, if there are published experimental studies on this effect. It should not be too difficult to place a gamma source behind a LENR device and to observe what comes through. (This has been proposed by Pekka some time ago on JoNP.) Maybe MFMP could try it in case that they get their reactor running.

          • Thomas Clarke

            I agree the gamma shield hypothesis is indeed a good characteristic of WL-theory. It allows the theory to be falsified if a gamma shield is not observed as you say.

            However – I don’t think in pravtice that will work. Suppose people do this experiment and find gammas not shielded. They will just say that the LENR was on only some of the volume tested, or was not working, etc. No disproof of WL.

            If a significant gamma shield was observed that switched on and off with a claimed LENR reaction it would, indeed, be strong evidence for WL and LENR.

          • Thomas Clarke

            I can’t add this to my post below because the wretched site moderation policy vanishes my reply!

            http://vixra.org/pdf/1401.0169v1.pdf

            A comment on your other suggestion. I’m pretty sure this is complete moonshine. It is incompatible with QM and QED, theories which have been astoundingly successful at precise quantitative prediction of a wide variety of phenomena.

            However – I’m not expecting people here to agree with that. Where it falls down in a way anyone can see is that it does not make any new predictions. The old phenomena it claims to fit were all known before the theory was devised. It is awfully easy to make theories that fit around existing evidence. The claim that there are major holes in standard treatments – in other words that it successfully predicts more than standard theories – is just wrong. In any case this theory is highly qualitative, but even the qualitiative ideas have not been followed through to make predictions about when you would see nuclear reactions.

            And it does not address the high energy product issue. So fails to explain LENR observations.

            In the end it is actually LENR observations, not theory, that makes it so hard for most scientists to take LENR seriously.

          • Ged

            Ah man, I hate when replies get eaten.

            I confess I only skimmed through that new Ryberg matter hypotgesis one I found, but it seemed an interesting “yet another contender” due to the amount of analysis. I’ll take your evaluation of it.

            As I’ve said, I’m strongly in favor of the BECNF theory, due to its testable predictions and ability to explain the data seen so far for both deuterium and hydrogen systems. WL is another alternatuve, but not one that ever seemed plausible from the data to me.

      • ivanc

        I do not think theory is an issue or the point in this discussion.
        The main point is that there is not one experiment set up that one team has been able to reproduce based on the instruction of other team.
        Please point the cases or case if you think I am wrong.

        • Ged

          Really now?

          MFMP’s work (and ongoing) with a replication of Celani’s device (when they were using borosilicate housing like Celani) certainly qualifies. As does that Italian “high school” experiment that was replicated several times (both successfully and unsuccessfully maybe, I’m not as up-to-date on that one). Or Toyota’s replication of Mitsubishi’s work http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/07/report-toyota-replicates-mitsubishi-lenr-transmutation-experiment/ . Or the numerous replications of Brillouin’s work that they list on their web site. Or Defkalion’s original replications of the e-cat (before they went off on their own tanget). Or the very recent timeline of a small cross section of replications/new experiments over time listed by McKubre (of which he was part of some of the successful replications) http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/23/mckubre-slides-from-norway-presentation-chronicle-sris-lenr-replications-brillouin-featured/ . Do I really need to go on?

          There’s been a lot of replications by teams following instructions from another team (e.g. ENEA’s publications as well). I guess, like the theories, we need a resource page for people to one stop look up these things, and for recall.

          • ivanc

            As far as I understand MFMP has not replicated Celani device.
            defkalion does not count, they could not demo any excess power.
            Mckubre has work on many projects, but no one has replicated his work.
            This is the problem with LENR. The experiment is not replicable yet.
            about toyota or mistsubishi, I not sure, they may have done, but they not making a lot of noise.
            Brillouin’s is also a secretive company.
            If you know of a experiment. then publish the protocol

          • Kevin O

            LENR has been replicated more than 14,000 times.

            https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg85732.html

          • ivanc

            You missing the point, there is no one replication that has worked as peer review of another, every one is working in secret,
            Kevin, could you give the protocol of one of those 14,000 replications.
            I also hope LERN is real, but the teams are not working together, they are all over the place.
            If even one experiment could be consistently replicated then LENR will be already science.

          • Kevin O

            My favorite replication was Arata’s, because I made money from it. I’m assuming Physics Letters A is a good enough journal for something to be “already science”.

            http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/75/2239.page

          • ivanc

            Thanks for the link, there is mention of replication, but I wonder why not all scientist working in this field do not choose one experiment and declare it its flagship and all replicate it and publish, I still feel there is missing a sense of union in the researches in this field.
            And I could not find the “protocol”

          • GreenWin

            The very first P&F experiments have been replicated many times – in the case of MIT they doctored the results to eliminate the excess heat. Ged, ivanc does not want to learn, like so many. Don’t waste your time.

    • ivanc

      You are correct, post are stopped just because express opposite ideas, not because have a insulting language. This is why I do not express my opinion any more.

  • US_Citizen71

    If you put flame to an unknown liquid and it becomes aflame and continues to burn after the the external source is removed is it not proof that the liquid is flammable?

  • Mats001

    +1

  • BroKeeper

    Pop, pop goes more concrete, drizzle, to heavy trickle. This is a major event in the continuous saga of the weakening dam of denial (ooops, sorry, repudiation for the sensitive). Huffington Post is a major bridge to the main stream media, many journalists are much aware.

    I am now writing this to you from a dear couple in Oxford MS (my wife’s childhood home). He is a major journalist for the conservative newspapers Tupelo Journal and the Oxford Citizen. When attempting to explain the LENR breakthroughs, he would immediately revisit the many energy inventions bought out and buried by the mega-petroleum/automobile entities, but hopes what I have betrayed comes to past.
    The best some of us followers can do is cast the seed of truth where some will take fertile ground.

    This is a tough thick dam to break through and may take a few sticks of MSM C4 behind the dam to crack it wide open. Hopefully this ‘seeding’ article will lead to igniting its fuse.

  • Brokeeper

    Pop, pop goes more concrete, drizzle, to heavy trickle. This is a major event in the continuous saga of the weakening dam of denial (ooops, sorry, repudiation for the sensitive). Huffington Post is a major bridge to the main stream media, many journalists are much aware.

    I am now writing this to you from a dear couple’s home in Oxford MS (my wife’s childhood home). He is a major journalist for the conservative newspapers Tupelo Journal and the Oxford Citizen. When attempting to explain the LENR breakthroughs, he would immediately revisit the many energy inventions bought out and buried by the mega-petroleum/automobile entities, but hopes what I have betrayed comes to past.
    The best some of us followers can do is cast the seed of truth where some will take fertile ground.

    This is a tough thick dam to break through and may take a few sticks of MSM C4 behind the dam to crack it wide open. Hopefully this ‘seeding’ article will lead to igniting its fuse.

  • Gerrit

    There are 3 physics PhDs amongst my friends and colleagues with whom I have discussed cold fusion/LENR in some details. Their reactions are interesting.

    One of them remembers clearly how the the Fleischmann-Pons announcement thrilled him in 1989. He felt disappointed when it turned out to be “all wrong” just a few weeks later.
    When I initially spoke with him about cold fusion he responded angrily, he still felt betrayed by the unkept promise of such a beautiful source of energy. After a while he became more friendly towards discussing the topic and today is carefully hopeful again. He is very aware that there is a lot of politics and fund grabbing behind most of science activities and that the peer review process is flawed.

    The second one is quite agnostic about the situation. He doesn’t rule out at all that there might be something unknown going on, but he has the stance that whatever there might be, we are going to find out sooner or later so he’ll probably hear about it in the news when the time has come. Or not.

    The last one gives me all the typical pseudo skeptic arguments one can think of. Totally driven from the “this cannot be true” idea. He asks things like “Why, if this were true, we haven’t heard more about it”, “If there was the slightest possibility that it is true, all of science would be working on it to grab the Nobel prize”, “Why, if this were true, we haven’t discovered it already”.

    Many more well researched articles in the mainstream media are needed to get the message across that science should take a closer look into cold fusion and they better hurry up.

    • Omega Z

      In the 60’s.
      One day we’ll all have personal communicator & likely be able to see each other as we talk.
      Yeah, Right. When pigs fly. If it were possible, someone would already have invented it.

    • psi2u2

      This later reaction is a standard expression of disbelief, a psychological phenomenon that is entirely independent of the topic at hand; comparisons can drawn from other instances of paradigm shift phenomenon. In the end it transforms to pure envy unless the practitioner can modify his assumptions.

  • Sanjeev

    This seems to be the most detailed “msm” publication on lenr so far. Its a blog but its msm blog.
    The number of links in that article is overwhelming. Many link to ECW, which simply means that ECW has become a vast resource for lenr and ecat.
    These guys have done some good homework. Well done.

  • bitplayer

    Please do stick around. Fresh perspectives are helpful. There aren’t too many outright attackers. There was long battle with the trolls (try ecatnews if you would like to see where that goes), and there is still need for vigilance. But Frank does a *f*a*b*u*l*o*u*s* job of posting information, and there is much intelligent examination of what he finds.

    • psi2u2

      I concur strongly with both these comments.

      And let me just add this. I have no experience at all with peer review in the sciences, but I have had quite a bit with the same process in the humanities, especially in literary studies, and if the process works in science as it does in the humanities, then, to be sure, it is to be celebrated as the best of all possible worlds but kept at arms length by an person of independent conscience.

      I think of Carl Sagan, for example, the principled devotee of the social and intellectual benefits of Cannabis consumption and inventor of the Cosmos series, who was in the closet his entire life on the important scientific question of what that plant is really all about. Sagan may even have been the one who suggested to Lester Grinspoon that he consider treating his 11 year old son, who was dying of Leukemia, with cannabis to treat his nausea — Grinspoon does not name Sagan in his anecdote about the significance of his reluctant decision to administer cannabis to his son, before he believed or *knew* that it would work, and before this character of the plant was understood or accepted to the extent that it is now. To the extent that it is, it is largely due to the clinical studies that Dr. Grinspoon himself conducted on children and other patients suffering from the same disease that took his son. I wonder where Carl Sagan would have been had he tried to argue something like that in a “peer reviewed” journal? He would probably have gone to jail. Dropping a hint to Dr. Grinspoon was a more strategic decision.

      The only good thing that one can say about peer review, in my opinion, is that we would be worse off without it. But my anecdote suggests that trying to turn the “peer review” of a particular era into a metaphysical truth, which is what defenders of the status quo ante seem to have been doing for a long time now, in a number of fields.

      From that indecisive point of view I have appreciated all sides in this discussion, each contributing something worthy of consideration.

  • bitplayer

    Well, I for one would like to be published in Science and Nature. Because it’s about real world cause and effect, not unicorn herding. You can curse and wish it away, but that won’t make a whit of difference. The power is there, and that’s the reality of how the world works: power, capability, networks of causes and effects. Anyone who wishes to see LENR succeed should very much want to see a strong LENR article in Science and Nature.

  • bachcole

    AlbertNN, everyone gets that “random approval process” now and then. It may be something to do with the Disqus software. And Frank, with my support, has me on eternal moderation. If I get the least bit nasty or ugly, my comment gets tossed, which happens about 7% of the time. I think that I am getting better. Frank is my tamer.

    I apologize if I or anyone has attacked your character. We need fresh blood, and NO ONE has the right to castigate you, even if it is subtle. But remember, everyone here has or needs lessons in practical epistemology. This is the biggest change in science in perhaps EVER, so we have to be very careful about what we take to be true and untrue. Appealing to Science or Wikipedia will not cut it. We are talking REVOLUTION here. So, sometimes people get a little testy, and sometimes people fail to remember what intellectual soul searching they had to go through, which takes time.

    So, please stay.

  • Mats002

    Thanks for clearing this out. We are just seeking the truth.

  • Mats002

    Welcome to the journey of understanding phenomenon of our common reality. It seams you are a beginner of understanding LENR. Keep searching you will get there!

  • Veblin

    True. But it has been more than 20 days.
    10/12/2014 49259 times
    10/14/2014 69367 times
    10/17/2014 86381 times
    11/28/2014 more than 120k times

  • bkrharold

    Thanks for the link, the site is full of really interesting information now. They are an intriguing company, very low key, just like Mike McKubre. He is not given to hyperbole, always very careful and understated. Some people found his analysis of the ecat TIP report disappointing, but I was not surprised, they did leave themselves open to the pseudo-skeptics, and he merely pointed that out. He never said he doubted the results.

  • Open minds, that’s all we ask.

  • Open minds, that’s all we ask.

    • bachcole

      Barry, that was so Spartan, so Arnold, so short, so sweet, so poetic, so to the point.

  • Omega Z

    In the 60’s.
    One day we’ll all have personal communicator & likely be able to see each other as we talk.
    Yeah, Right. When pigs fly. If it were possible, someone would already have invented it.

  • Kevin O

    the few that have made positive predictions (Kim’s BEC theory) have been disproved by experiment.
    ***Would you please elaborate? I hadn’t heard that Kim’s BEC theory had been disproven by experiment.

  • Kevin O

    As Albert says science is inductive

    ***Where did Albert say this?

    – something that has happened many times before is considered probable to happen again. No-one can prove this formally.

    ***This is an interesting and fascinating assertion. But it is flat-out wrong, and proof of its wrongness is in the fact that you do not build upon it. It is just an opinion of yours stated as if it is incontrovertible fact.

    Theories (like the stuff that means we expect the sun to rise in thje
    east tomorrow) have such very strong predictive power that we tend to
    give them “effectively proven” status.

    ***Where are you going with this? There’s no generally accepted theory of gravity, nor of HTSC, nor of LENR. The science boys were so enamored with the “effectively proven” status of the Higgs Boson that they fast-tracked experimental results which proved WRONG.

    there is no doubt that the rossi tests that you note exist, and contain
    data which trumps any theory. But without a theory there so very very
    many ways that data could be interpreted.

    ***With all due respect, this statement is hogwash.

    Those ways include:
    experimental error (of many different kinds)

    ***For the results of replications of LENR to be experimental error, the chances are arguably (1/3)^14720. Many, many, many, many many many orders of magnitude away from impossible. Off by 4500 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

    https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg79674.html

    deceit (of many different kinds)
    ***Well, then, ok. Good luck with your incredibly expanded conspiracy theories, which have zero to do with the necessity of a theory being in place. Do you accuse all of the HTSC researchers of deceit, just because they don’t have a theory in place? No, I didn’t think so.

    and so on.
    ***Horse manure.

    • bitplayer

      Yeah, but…

      Maybe the semantics of “theory” are getting in the way. Maybe “theory” just means “really good model of how it behaves” instead of “exactly description of how it actually works”.

      We don’t have a “theory” of gravity in the sense of understanding how “it actually works”. But then we don’t have a theory of how cause and effect “actually works”.

      What we do have is a “really good model” of how gravity *behaves*.

      In that language, we don’t have a good model at all of how LENR behaves.

      So, if Science and Nature say that “science” requires a really good predictive model, as well as replicatable experimental results, that’s their privilege.

      Kim Stanley Robinson gives a really good description of the process of science in his novel “Antarctica”. To paraphrase (if I have this correctly), a lot of what science (and thus what Science and Nature) is trying to do is to pin stuff down so other stuff can be built on top of it.

      In that light the view of Science and Nature is that “we publish the stuff that has been incontrovertibly determined to be reliable; you may go invest your extremely valuable research dollars based on this stuff.”

      Which is a fairly important function, considering how many members of the U.S. Congress would like to mandate the teaching of Intelligent Design to six year olds.

      • Kevin O

        What we do have is a “really good model” of how gravity *behaves*.
        ***Exactly. We have a “law” of gravity, but not a theory. A “law” in science is simply a mathematically rigorous description of behavior.

        So what we have almost in place is 14,700 known replications (law) of anomalous behavior, with no generally accepted theory in place. The state of HTSC is almost exactly the same, but HTSC does not have entrenched enemies who are paid to not see the results. Like with Galileo, the priests of the day refuse to look through the telescope.

  • Gerrit

    I think my understanding of the peer review process is quite realistic. You are certainly aware of Schekman’s criticism of the top tier journals and its negative impact on scientific research.

    The LENR anomaly has been reported upon in 100s of peer reviewed papers and yet funding decisions are significantly influenced by the likelyhood of research papers getting published in top tier journals. Career paths for scientists are obviously influenced by the available funding for certains fields of research. And the top tier journals can select at their own discretion what they accept for peer review.

    It is naive to believe that the only metric for getting published in the top tier journals is the quality of the paper. It is more about fashion. Yet too often I have heard scientists says that they believe something only when it gets published in Nature or Science. That is where this whole peer review system is failing.

    • Thomas Clarke

      People are not perfect. Scientists judgement of what is good/bad etc is very imperfect. So any system which improves quality will make mistakes. and some people will see these mistakes (possibly be on the wrong end of them) and complain.

      There are tens of thousands of journals, 100s of high quality ones. The many LENR papers from Holmlid I posted show that good work can be published in any number of different decent journals, and that there is in principle no prejudice against LENR.

      Yes there will be prejudice – people are human. Scientific papers in any area get turned down because of the personal quirks of the referes. That is Ok – if they are good they will be published elsewhere, with different referees. If they have real faults, those can be mended and the paper submitted for republication. Frankly there are very few papers that get through into a journal without significant calls for improvement first.

      The merit of the system is its catholicism. There is no central guiding hand, and individual editors will have their own ideas, as well individual referees. Quality wins out in the end.

      You also mistake the nature of scientific progress. No new theory is “believed”. It is first proposed, it makes predictions, those are compared with new evidence. Theories that are highly predictive get a high weight of probability.

      LENR has not yet got to the stage of being a theory that makes testable and falsifiable predictions, which is why most scientists will say they don’t see much evidence for it.

      Anomalies happen. Easily. Proving that an anomaly could not be something boring like mistake, unexpected error source, or even deliberate distortion takes a lot of effort. Only a very few of the LENR researchers make this effort. The LENR companies it seems never do this. Each demo they have is completely different, or is identical to the old with the same potential errors no more investigated.

      MFMP are the only people I know who stick with one experiment collecting results, adding instrumentation and control, testing error mechanisms, in an attempt to see whether an anomaly is LENR or something else. And publish their data so that others can critique it and suggest error mechanisms.

      You can see from their work that this process is needed, errors are common, almost inevitable.

      I guess you may say the above arguments are those which pseudo-skeptics make. In which case I’ll shut up, you have heard them before. But I hope you will help me with the following. Tell me, where other than from MFMP can I find repeated incremental calibration, hypothesising over calibration anomalies, use of different controls, checking of active vs control anomalies, etc, all on the same experiment to drill down and differentiate between error and reality?

      I’d be interested in which of these three things you, and others here, think:

      (1) All this stuff is in fact done by other researchers having positive results but not showing it, you accept this on authority.

      (2) All this stuff is done by other researchers and published – I’m just not looking (in which case point me to good examples of it, I’d be interested).

      (3) This level of integrity is not needed. There is enough evidence without it. In this case you might want to take MFMP as a counterexample. They have been replicating what they think are the best experiments and getting null results – in many cases finding the precise error mechanisms that led to the positives.

      There are other people, less well known, good experimentalists, doing replications like MFMP. Earthtech, and some other guy that MFMP went to visit whom I now can’t remember. They are not well known because they have not yet found any positive results from replications.

      • Gerrit

        I do not know where you got the impression that I do not understand the nature of scientific progress. Over the years many theories have been proposed, some better than others. Most likely several of them would have made testable predictions. In order to advance those theories and discard the others by providing contradicting evidence you’ll need to secure funding first. Without adequate funding you basically deny scientific progress, or at least slow it down severely.

        You probably know about SKINR. Although we don’t hear much from them, I get the impression that they are working on producing evidence that can lead to better theory proposals.

        Regarding incremental calibrations. If you were aware of the work performed at SRI and NRL you would probably find that they have done all of the things you ask for.

        It should be clear that LENR companies follow their own development path which is not compatible to scientific progress. You should avoid mixing up the two approaches.

        My viewpoint is that there is credible evidence that an anomaly exists and that sufficient funding should be made available to find out what this anomaly is all about and actually get scientific progress.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks.
    ———-
    Re: [Vo]:Cold fusion in Huffington Post
    James Bowery
    Sat, 29 Nov 2014 14:37:03 -0800
    My response:
    The article contains a ludicrously understated assessment of the situation:
    “Indeed, several physicists are skeptical of these results precisely
    because they appear to contravene physical law.”
    Here’s reality: Within a mere 5 weeks of the March 1989 press conference by
    Pons and Fleischmann, virtually all physicists joined together in a united
    front that was not only “skeptical” but prepared to destroy the careers of
    anyone who so much as attempted to replicate the work of Pons and
    Fleischmann. This despite the fact that the full experimental protocol had
    yet to be published and despite the fact that when published the
    experimental protocol clearly showed a minimum of 6 weeks preparation were
    required to sufficiently load the Pd with Deuterium.
    ——-
    Read more — http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg99988.html

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks.
    ———-
    Re: [Vo]:Cold fusion in Huffington Post
    James Bowery
    Sat, 29 Nov 2014 14:37:03 -0800
    My response:
    The article contains a ludicrously understated assessment of the situation:
    “Indeed, several physicists are skeptical of these results precisely
    because they appear to contravene physical law.”
    Here’s reality: Within a mere 5 weeks of the March 1989 press conference by
    Pons and Fleischmann, virtually all physicists joined together in a united
    front that was not only “skeptical” but prepared to destroy the careers of
    anyone who so much as attempted to replicate the work of Pons and
    Fleischmann. This despite the fact that the full experimental protocol had
    yet to be published and despite the fact that when published the
    experimental protocol clearly showed a minimum of 6 weeks preparation were
    required to sufficiently load the Pd with Deuterium.
    ——-
    Read more — http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg99988.html

  • Mats002

    Most of the information is from 2012, no new news. The latest update I can find is the top entry of “in the media” linking to: http://www.exposingtruth.com/mit-scientists-discover-secret-cold-fusion/#ixzz2ttQdhPY8 from feb 2014.

    This link is a year old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFoSQy09TEo

    I am quite sure Frank already covered this here at ECW.

    • Sanjeev

      Right, the website is old. The newest info on their activities is on their vimeo channel.
      http://vimeo.com/groups/250451/videos

      • Mats002

        Thanks this was new to me. And especially the video answer the question of Brillouin COP 6 month ago: “Robert Godes, of Brillouin Energy Corporation discusses the reasons why they have so far achieved only 2x the output as is used at the input, and what multiple is required for commercial success in each of their two technologies”. With McKubre definition of excess power in the Norwegian presentation COP 2.1 is >100% Pxs. That makes sense.

        http://vimeo.com/groups/250451/videos/95828140

  • psi2u2

    This later reaction is a standard expression of disbelief. Comparisons can drawn from other instances of paradigm shift phenomenon. In the end it transforms to pure envy unless the practitioner can modify his assumptions.

  • psi2u2

    I disagree entirely that moderation should facilitate the lack of civility found at Ecat News. If you want to participate in those uncivil discussions, that is the place to go. I come here precisely because moderation keeps the more aggressive and less substantive expressions of “skepticism” on a reasoned path.

    • Anon2012_2014

      “I disagree entirely that moderation should facilitate the lack of civility”

      I never said that. I like moderation to prevent people from behaving boorishly. I don’t understand why the ECN people talk the way they do to each other.

      • psi2u2

        Thanks for the clarification. I apologize if I misconstrued your position.

      • Anon2012_2014

        No problem psi2u2,

        Anon12/14

  • Axil Axil

    I am excited by one of the comments on this article authored by Gregory Byron Goble · Works at Citywide Dispatch Robert Cheshire.

    It points to the origin of mass as an electromagnetic impedance matching process. The standard modal is incorrect in two important areas.

    From the reference: http://vixra.org/pdf/1408.0109v4.pdf

    “Mass generation via chiral symmetry breaking and the
    Higgs becomes irrelevant for two independent reasons.
    First, in the absence of the weak force there is no need for
    massive gauge bosons. And second, the chiral impedance
    is scale invariant, cannot communicate energy but rather
    only quantum phase, cannot deliver mass.

    Similarly, mass generation in QCD via dynamic chiral
    symmetry breaking is seen to be not possible in light of
    the scale invariance of chiral impedances.

    In the impedance approach the origin of mass is the
    energy in the fields of the coupled modes represented in
    the impedance network and connected by impedance mis-
    matches. The calculated mass of the electron is correct
    at the nine signicant digit limit of experimental accu-
    racy, the muon at a part in one thousand, the pion at two
    parts in ten thousand, and the nucleon at seven parts in
    one hundred thousand[126].”

    This says that there is no Higgs field. The electromagnetic field condenses under the action of quantum EMF impedance to form the mass of the electron, pion, and meson. I have been postulating EMF condensation into particles as an important mechanism in LENR. This quantum impedance idea supports that belief.

    The discovery of the “God particle” has been brought into question recently as a misidentification.

    I believe that when LENR is accepted, the standard model will need a rework to get rid of the Higgs field.

    • jousterusa

      I just checked out the readership and “shares” of my CNN story on cold fusion at the APEC summit. Wow!

      Signals at the APEC Summit Show Big Changes Ahead

      by Joe Shea Bradenton, Fla. November 12, 2014   A…

      9,071
      VIEWS

      27
      COMMENTS

      787
      SHARES

      • Bob Greenyer

        Well done Joe, great stats!

      • Builditnow

        The link to the ireport is broken for me, try this one http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1187686

        • TomR

          Thank you Builditnow, your link worked fine, where Joe’s didn’t. That was the second time I read the article and the comments.

      • bachcole

        Is that good or bad? I never share anything; I am not even certain what it means.

        • pelgrim108

          Good bad
          Here is an example of how to share a youtube video to facebook
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKCC_a1fLE
          So basically “sharing” means featuring something you find on the web on your own facebook page or google+ page or any place like a forum for example.

          Today its all made easy for you by just clicking some “share” buttons that are provided with the good stuff that you want everybody to know about.
          If you post a link on “the always open thread” then that can be called “sharing” also.
          ——–
          I have an unused google+ account. Never did any sharing, like you. But now I am tempted to start doing it.

  • Axil Axil

    I am excited by one of the comments on this article authored by Gregory Byron Goble · Works at Citywide Dispatch Robert Cheshire.

    It points to the origin of mass as an electromagnetic impedance matching process. The standard modal is incorrect in two important areas.

    From the reference: http://vixra.org/pdf/1408.0109v4.pdf

    “Mass generation via chiral symmetry breaking and the
    Higgs becomes irrelevant for two independent reasons.
    First, in the absence of the weak force there is no need for
    massive gauge bosons. And second, the chiral impedance
    is scale invariant, cannot communicate energy but rather
    only quantum phase, cannot deliver mass.

    Similarly, mass generation in QCD via dynamic chiral
    symmetry breaking is seen to be not possible in light of
    the scale invariance of chiral impedances.

    In the impedance approach the origin of mass is the
    energy in the fields of the coupled modes represented in
    the impedance network and connected by impedance mis-
    matches. The calculated mass of the electron is correct
    at the nine signicant digit limit of experimental accu-
    racy, the muon at a part in one thousand, the pion at two
    parts in ten thousand, and the nucleon at seven parts in
    one hundred thousand[126].”

    This says that there is no Higgs field. The electromagnetic field condenses under the action of quantum EMF impedance to form the mass of the electron, pion, and meson. I have been postulating EMF condensation into particles as an important mechanism in LENR. This quantum impedance idea supports that belief.

    Energy gain in LENR is a energy balancing and transfer process in a EMF based energy transfer mechanism.

    The discovery of the “God particle” has been brought into question recently as a misidentification.

    I believe that when LENR is accepted, the standard model will need a rework to get rid of the Higgs field.

  • psi2u2

    Of course, the sun does not really rise in the east. But maybe that’s nitpicking your argument.

    “The Rossi tests….contain data which trumps any theory.”

    Exactly. The smart people will start to realize that means that we need more, newer theories, or hypotheses, that might explain these “trumping” results. It doesn’t matter whether you call them LENR or something else – that is all a form of linguistic idolatry. What matters is that new ideas are needed to explain the results.

  • I wonder if you combined titanium hydride (TiH2) and lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4) in a vacuum and stimulated the mixture with heat and intermittent sparks if you would get a reaction. Titanium hydride is explosive, so you would want an oxygen free environment. Or, try mixing the lithium aluminum hydride and titanium hydride with iron dust plus heat and electromagnetic pulses. Just an idea. I would stand back just in case.

    • Axil Axil

      The Titanium hydride should be milled to a particle size of between 2 and 5 microns. The temperature of the titanium hydride (TiH2) and lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4) mix should be maintained at 1000C in an air, and water free environment to free all the hydrogen primarily from the LiAlH3..
      Both titanium and zirconium reflect infrared photons almost as good as nickel. So stabilized zirconium hydride might also work well.

      • warthog

        Any hints on tungsten?? Irving Langmuir thought he had detected “over-unity” heat during his experiments with tungsten and hydrogen….and discussed it with Niels Bohr by correspondence. Bohr told him it “….was not possible….”, and Langmuir dropped the research.

        Sound familiar????

        • Axil Axil

          http://www.photonics.com/EDU/Handbook.aspx?AID=25501

          See: Metal mirror coatings
          We are interested in the 2 to 10 micron range in the infrared for an E-cat type reactor..
          The higher the reflectivity of the metal surface, the better will be its LENR capability in that wavelength.
          Most transition metals have excellent reflectivity in the infrared range.

  • I wonder if you combined titanium hydride (TiH2) and lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4) in a vacuum and stimulated the mixture with heat and intermittent sparks if you would get a reaction. Titanium hydride is explosive, so you would want an oxygen free environment. Or, try mixing the lithium aluminum hydride and titanium hydride with iron dust plus heat and electromagnetic pulses. Just an idea. I would stand back just in case.

    • Axil Axil

      The Titanium hydride should be milled to a particle size of between 2 and 5 microns. The temperature of the titanium hydride (TiH2) and lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4) mix should be maintained at 1000C in an air, and water free environment to free all the hydrogen primarily from the LiAlH3..
      Both titanium and zirconium reflect infrared photons almost as good as nickel. So stabilized zirconium hydride might also work well.

      • warthog

        Any hints on tungsten?? Irving Langmuir thought he had detected “over-unity” heat during his experiments with tungsten and hydrogen….and discussed it with Niels Bohr by correspondence. Bohr told him it “….was not possible….”, and Langmuir dropped the research.

        Sound familiar????

        • Axil Axil

          http://www.photonics.com/EDU/Handbook.aspx?AID=25501

          See: Metal mirror coatings

          We are interested in the 2 to 10 micron range in the infrared for an E-cat type reactor..

          The higher the reflectivity of the metal surface, the better will be its LENR capability at that wavelength.

          Most transition metals have excellent reflectivity in the infrared range.

  • jousterusa

    I just checked out the readership and “shares” of my CNN story (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1187686) on cold fusion at the APEC summit. Wow!

    Signals at the APEC Summit Show Big Changes Ahead

    by Joe Shea Bradenton, Fla. November 12, 2014   A…

    9,071
    VIEWS

    27
    COMMENTS

    787
    SHARES

    • Bob Greenyer

      Well done Joe, great stats!

    • Builditnow

      The link to the ireport is broken for me, try this one http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1187686

      • TomR

        Thank you Builditnow, your link worked fine, where Joe’s didn’t. That was the second time I read the article and the comments.

    • bachcole

      Is that good or bad? I never share anything; I am not even certain what it means.

      • pelgrim108

        Good bad
        Here is an example of how to share a youtube video to facebook
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKCC_a1fLE
        So basically “sharing” means featuring something you find on the web on your own facebook page or google+ page or any place like a forum for example.

        Today its all made easy for you by just clicking some “share” buttons that are provided with the good stuff that you want everybody to know about.
        If you post a link on “the always open thread” then that can be called “sharing” also.
        ——–
        I have an unused google+ account. Never did any sharing, like you. But now I am tempted to start doing it.

  • Gerrit

    E.ON to spin off conventional power generation business.

    http://tinyurl.com/prtcuet

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Through co-investments, E.ON already partners with European and American start-ups that are developing promising energy solutions that incorporate technologies of the future.”

      Johannes Teyssen, CEO of E.ON, stated in an interview (I think it was in October 2013), that the best energy sources were “perhaps not yet known.” And a representative of E.ON is member of the Elforsk board which has been responsible for the E-Cat research project…

      • Fortyniner

        E.On have also been quietly backing out of nuclear power for about three years. It would be interesting to know what they intend to do with their massive nuclear liabilities in Germany (2 reactors already shut down plus another 4, the last of which must be shut down by 2022) and Sweden (3 reactors). The decommissioning and disposal costs will run into many billions of Euros.

        http://www.eon.com/en/business-areas/power-generation/nuclear/current-information.html

        • georgehants

          Morning Peter, unfortunately Mr. Cameron is unaware of all these things, so the U.K. will become admired for having more nuclear power stations and waste to deal with in thirty or so years.
          But like Blair we can be sure that when he leaves office he will miraculously become a multi-millionaire very quickly.

          • Fortyniner

            Morning George. I don’t know how you could possibly be so cynical about our selfless leaders, who I’m sure only have our very best interests at heart.

            Camerons’s Hinkley C deal seems to be running out of sellotape and string – I just pray that nothing irreversible gets signed before he is kicked out of office next year.

          • Fortyniner

            Our stockpiles of nuclear waste are obviously too small to gain the admiration of the world, so we have added some that the Swedes and Germans don’t seem to want.

            http://rt.com/uk/170244-plutonium-uk-deal-ownership/

        • There is also the possibility that Eon just wants to shift the responsibility and costs of the currently ongoing removal of some Eon owned nuclear fission plants into a subsidiary which is easy to give up for insolvency. So the taxpayer can pay for the atomic trash…

          • Fortyniner

            Yup – that seems to be the plan. I hope that Swedish and German politicians won’t sleepwalk blindly into the trap. The same pattern is likely to be repeated by all nuclear concerns across the Western world, and there will be plenty of politicians who have been encouraged to look the other way while it takes place, predictably, and in plain sight.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Now the pseudoskeptics have a unique opportunity to demonstrate how convinced of their own opinion they are. They just need to buy up all the ‘poisoned’ shares.

          • BroKeeper

            Andreas, Are you saying “Put-up or shut-up?” I love it.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          The spin-off will be solely responsible for the costs of denuclearization. After the split, shareholders of E.ON will receive a proportionate amount of stock of both the old and the new company. E.ON says that they plan to sell subsequently their own share in the spin-off. Who would have guessed?

    • Oceans2014

      E.ON looks like a highly developed mature alternative energy dev company, look to hear more from these guys on LENR > E.ON “Now is good time for other European countries to emulate Germany’s commitment to transforming its energy system”.

      • Bernie777

        Right, it is also time for the US to emulate Germany’s energy system!

  • Gerrit

    E.ON to spin off conventional power generation business.

    http://tinyurl.com/prtcuet

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Through co-investments, E.ON already partners with European and American start-ups that are developing promising energy solutions that incorporate technologies of the future.”

      Johannes Teyssen, CEO of E.ON, stated in an interview (I think it was in October 2013), that the best energy sources were “perhaps not yet known.” And a representative of E.ON is member of the Elforsk board which has been responsible for the E-Cat research project…

      • E.On have also been quietly backing out of nuclear power for about three years. It would be interesting to know what they intend to do with their massive nuclear liabilities in Germany (2 reactors already shut down plus another 4, the last of which must be shut down by 2022) and Sweden (3 reactors). The decommissioning and disposal costs will run into many tens of billions of Euros.

        http://www.eon.com/en/business-areas/power-generation/nuclear/current-information.html

        • georgehants

          Morning Peter, unfortunately Mr. Cameron is unaware of all these things, so the U.K. will become admired for having more nuclear power stations and waste to deal with in thirty or so years.
          But like Blair we can be sure that when he leaves office he will miraculously become a multi-millionaire very quickly.

          • Morning George. I don’t know how you could possibly be so cynical about our selfless leaders, who I’m sure only have their our very best interests at heart.

            Camerons’s Hinkley C deal seems to be running out of sticky tape and string – “EDF Energy has had more partners than Elizabeth Taylor” said Stop Hinkley spokesperson Roy Pumfrey “and now it looks as though it may have lost another one.” (Referring to the Chinese ‘partners’ who apparently want rather too much jam on their deal).

            http://stophinkley.org/StopPress.htm

            I just pray that nothing irreversible gets signed before he is kicked out of office next year.

          • Our leaking stockpiles of nuclear waste are obviously too small to gain the admiration of the world, so we have added some more that the Swedes and Germans don’t seem to want for some reason.

            http://rt.com/uk/170244-plutonium-uk-deal-ownership/

        • There is also the possibility that Eon just wants to shift the responsibility and costs of the currently ongoing removal of some Eon owned nuclear fission plants into a subsidiary which is easy to give up for insolvency. So the taxpayer can pay for the atomic trash…

          • Yup – that seems to be the plan. Others like GE, Westinghouse and Siemens are already on the same path. I hope that Swedish and German politicians won’t sleepwalk blindly into the trap. The same pattern is likely to be repeated by all nuclear concerns across the Western world, and there will be plenty of politicians who have been encouraged to look the other way while it takes place, predictably and in plain sight.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Now the pseudoskeptics have a unique opportunity to demonstrate how convinced of their own opinion they are. They just need to buy up all the ‘poisoned’ shares.

          • Brokeeper

            Andreas, You have a unique way of saying “Put-up or shut-up”. I love it.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          The spin-off will be solely responsible for the costs of denuclearization. After the split, shareholders of E.ON will receive a proportionate amount of stock of both the old and the new company. E.ON says that they plan to sell subsequently their own share in the spin-off. Who would have guessed?

  • Ged

    Really now?

    MFMP’s work (and ongoing) with a replication of Celani’s device (when they were using borosilicate housing like Celani) certainly qualifies. As does that Italian “high school” experiment that was replicated several times (both successfully and unsuccessfully maybe, I’m not as up-to-date on that one). Or Toyota’s replication of Mitsubishi’s work http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/07/report-toyota-replicates-mitsubishi-lenr-transmutation-experiment/ . Or the numerous replications of Brillouin’s work that they list on their web site. Or Defkalion’s original replications of the e-cat (before they went off on their own tanget). Or the very recent timeline of a small cross section of replications/new experiments over time listed by McKubre (of which he was part of some of the successful replications) http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/23/mckubre-slides-from-norway-presentation-chronicle-sris-lenr-replications-brillouin-featured/ . Do I really need to go on?

    There’s been a lot of replications by teams following instructions from another team (e.g. ENEA’s publications as well). I guess, like the theories, we need a resource page for people to one stop look up these things, and for recall.

    • ivanc

      As far as I understand MFMP has not replicated Celani device.
      defkalion does not count, they could not demo any excess power.
      Mckubre has work on many projects, but no one has replicated his work.
      This is the problem with LENR. The experiment is not replicable yet.
      about toyota or mistsubishi, I not sure, they may have done, but they not making a lot of noise.
      Brillouin’s is also a secretive company.
      I you know of a experiment. then publish the protocol

      • Kevin O

        LENR has been replicated more than 14,000 times.

        https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg85732.html

        • Ged

          V1DLLBEC may well be the more viable theory. We just need experiments designed to test it. After all, many body linear BEC is an extension of TBL, and Kim’s work has continued to advance making TBL potentially outdated. But we don’t know more till specifically tested (I am not aware if that has happened yet).

    • GreenWin

      The very first P&F experiments have been replicated many times – in the case of MIT they doctored the results to eliminate the excess heat. Ged, ivanc does not want to learn, like so many. Don’t waste your time.

  • Kevin O

    My favorite replication was Arata’s, because I made money from it. I’m assuming Physics Letters A is a good enough journal for something to be “already science”.

    http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/75/2239.page

  • Warthog

    “there is no doubt that the rossi tests that you note exist, and contain
    data which trumps any theory. But without a theory there so very very
    many ways that data could be interpreted.”

    I wasn’t talking about Rossi, but the larger area of LENR. Again…the FIRST step in scientific proof is experimental replication. “IF” some form of explanation is offered along with the experimental data, at this stage, it best qualifies as a hypothesis. “IF” that hypothesis suggests other experiments that can be run, “IF” those tests are indeed run, and prove to agree with the original hypothesis, then that theoretical explanation advances to the stage of “theory”. LENR has long since passed this point….despite the fact that Nature, Science, many high-energy physicists, etc (and the skeptopaths that post here routinely) say it hasn’t.

    But it is NOT necessary for either the first experiment nor the replication to offer any explanation as to causation. Case in point…..the radioastronomical discovery of the universal microwave background. Neither the original discovery nor its experimental replication suggested a theoretical causation. Despite that, the discoverers of the original experiment were awarded a Nobel Prize for their discovery.

  • bitplayer

    I see plenty of honestly questioning comments. I believe though that Frank may for comments that directly and without support refute or denigrate Rossi’s work.

  • psi2u2

    Exactly.