Industrial Heat Working ‘Harder Than You Can Imagine’ [Update: New Domestic E-Cat Design; Rossi has a Dream to Produce in Millions]

Here’s an interesting response to a question from a reader on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about when E-Cat technology will finally be usable — something I am sure that many readers here have often wondered. There’s not a definitive answer here, but maybe we get an idea of what is happening at Industrial Heat headquarters from Rossi’s response:

Giorgio:
To make a forecast is very difficult, and if I say a date I will be assailed if the date will not be respected. We are working very hard both for the certification and for the industrialization to be able to manufacture million pieces per year. We are working on this much harder than you can imagine.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I find it interesting that Rossi here mentions working on certification — and I think he is likely referring to certification of domestic units, since he has said that industrial certification has already been obtained. If certification is obtained for the domestic E-Cats, then IH’s strategy (according to Rossi) is to flood the market with low-cost units, to discourage reverse engineering.

As with many of Rossi’s comments about there’s plenty that is not clear, but if IH is working harder on these things than we can imagine, maybe they will get the breakthrough that will hasten the day when the E-Cat finally appears in the world.

UPDATE: Here’s a new comment from Andrea Rossi in response to a question I posted on the JONP about whether the ‘million pieces per year’ referred to industrial or domestic E-Cats:

Frank Acland:
Industrial plants are mature, and at the end of the R&D period of the plant supplied to the Customer of IH the expansion will be already on solid ground, if the final results will be positive ( I must remind you that the results could be also negative, and in this case things will be more difficult). The domestic E-Cats are the big issue we are working on for what concerns the future. We are testing a new design that is extremely interesting and, in parallel, our experts are working on the safety certification side. When I talk of million pieces I am talking of domestic apparatuses, of course. Somebody said: ” I have a dream…”. Me too.
Warm Regards,
A.R.


  • NT

    I wonder if Rossi and IH will still be honoring the original signup list for priority purchase of the home e-cat or if some other first to market plan has been devised leaving the original supporters, us, out of the picture while China gets the first home units?

    • Ophelia Rump

      I am certain we will still be the first to get the devices when they are available in the U.S.
      Don’t hang that around his neck like a porkchop and call in the dogs.

      You know that is a perversion of meaning.

      • Joke-in-Chief? Really? Keep your politics to yourself please.

        • psi2u2

          Aren’t you in the British isles, Bachole? Or am I misremembering?

        • psi2u2

          Nope. Your Chaplinesque sense of humor. 😉

      • LilyLover

        “Why is it classified?” – is a good question but it assumes that there is a reason. Sometimes, there is a reason, sometimes the reason is “because we can”.
        To buy and verify the authenticity of LENR was the purpose of first purchase. They did not want to be “pulling out a gun to rob a pauper” so, they just verified that the goods were there to develop a suppression strategy. IH – C-HI-na poured cold water on that effort and made sure that there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel.
        Classified as what? A plant or bacteria? If you meant – kept secret from public – The reason is this: the controllers all over the World try to see the extent to which they can “get away with” with misaccounting and misallocation of public funds. The resultant simmering anger, vocal revolt, complete indifference or total ignorance is the data they seek. This is a test of malleability of public tolerance and “lack of impending uprising”. Extent of “black-budget” is proportional to public apathy and opinion-moldability. Besides it also provides resources for the malevolent endeavors.

  • Gerard McEk

    I would translate this as that a plant is being build and certficates are being applied for in not western countries (otherwise we would know). My guess for both is China.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    In Rossi’s recent comments, his situational awareness seems to be that competition is on radar as “parkhomovs” are popping up. To ensure that IH is the first to uncork the domestic market, they allocate forces to that front. They may also ask the certifiers: which do you prefer that people use, our safe devices or improvised garage things?

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Jimr

    Why do we never hear from a spokes person from IH other than Rossi?

    • ecatworld

      I don’t believe they are going to make public pronouncements until the R&D phase is over.

  • Warthog

    Standard skeptopath boilerplate comment.

  • LuFong

    I thought this comment about certification in China a few days ago was notable:

    Frederic Maillard
    January 11th, 2015 at 8:40 AM

    Dear Dr. Rossi

    When do you think you will get the e-cat certified in China for industrial usage, if not granted yet ?

    Best wishes
    FM

    Andrea Rossi
    January 11th, 2015 at 6:46 PM

    Frederic Maillard:
    Soon.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • TomR

      I also liked the question and the answer. I just wish the word, industrial, was, domestic, and the answer would be the same.

      • clovis ray

        hi, buddy, well yes, me too , but just remember, the industrial unit, is just 100 domestic units, , one, would be a home unit,and 100 domestic units would be able to furnish a small co. with heat at least, but of course you know this, and just so our readers have am idea about, what these low temp units are.

        • Jimr

          Clovis, as I understand it, the present 1 meg plant is made up of cold-cats just as the early model they sold to US that the customer (believed to be NASA) removed a few units to take with them ( the test only got to 400kw heat before having problems with seals) and left the remaining in Rossi’s garage as it was called in 2012. The e-cats were bundled 3-4 in a group with slightly over a hundred groups in a shipping container.

  • clovis ray

    Here is my comment , from a while back, i would have won that bet,( big smile) clovis ray attaboy • 12 days ago

    Me too, attaboy, I really like what I heard from AR. this is very interesting,

    When our domestic small E-Cats will hit the market we will not have anymore a reverse engineering problem, as I already explained, because the economy scale will allow prices that will make competition not convenient. We are working on it.

    what he is referring to is robot assembly lines, if I were a betting man, I would say by the time the customer factory test is complete, which shouldn’t be too long, their , home units will come next, and if assembly lines are complete, then we might see a product soon, something that will be safe and reliable for all everywhere, not just some third world country, he is producing a product the right way, even though it’s at break neck speed and in such a way that everyone can have one not just a privileged few.3

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  • clovis ray

    why is it you think a Chinese robot, could do anything cheaper that a home based robot, no i say the first will be in the good old, US of A, then once all the bugs are worked out more will be built, and still this turtle is running at breat neck speed, lol.

    • TomR

      I agree Clovis, if the things brought up by Alberonn are taken care of in short order. If they not, Pekka Janhunen’s reasons say that Rossi/IH have to move ahead on the domestic E-Cat very soon.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Zylon, the device belongs to I/H not Dr R , they industrial–heat, are an arm of a most powerful investment firm. easy mistake, i do it quite often, lol
    and we are not quite sure, but we think that is exactly what he is doing, selling power, to his customer, at the end of the test period,customer, will know that E-CAT does indeed work an have saved him x amount of dollars, after that it will be I/H decision whither to sell the industrial cat or just the power, that their customer will need.

  • Mats002

    I beg IH: Support Andrea Rossi in public of that dream. Aren’t we overdue play hide&seek now?

    • LilyLover

      Think of it this way – IH is being extremely nice to Andrea. Let his name be synonymous with E-Cat. Simply make money; let the History have “Rossi”. So, looked at it in a different way, it might be the best thing for the Rossi-lovers.
      I don’t think these are the businessy-IH’s reasons but they might as well act “as if” !!

  • Ophelia Rump

    “Industrial plants are mature, and at the end of the R&D period of the plant supplied to the Customer of IH the expansion will be already on solid ground, if the final results will be positive”

    The only meaning I can derive for “the expansion will be already on solid ground” is that Rossi is referring to the Industrial version as the expansion. So, IH now has two parallel product delivery objectives.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    “The domestic E-Cats are the big issue we are working on for what concerns the future. We are testing a new design that is extremely interesting and, in parallel,”

    Yet another variant?
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    “our experts are working on the safety certification side.”

    This sounds like they are processing the certification request for home units now to me.
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    When I talk of million pieces I am talking of domestic apparatuses, of course.

  • bachcole

    Very encouraging.

  • Warthog

    The principles who founded IH have a long and very successful track record of industrialization worldwide. You don’t schedule meetings with the premier of China without such a background. IH itself is shiny new, but the experience base behind it has a very long, solid, and responsible track record, and access to billions of dollars of capitalization, if they need it.

  • jousterusa

    This is great news! The domestic E-Cat will be one of the most important inventions and advances in the history of the world.

  • Gerard McEk

    It is interesting in how IH/Rossi are publishig their goals.
    First everything seems to be focussed on the 1 MW plant. No mention at all of the domestic Ecat. Then, suddenly (after more positive messages about the plant) the fucus is suddenly changed to the domistic units. Would this have to do with the way Darden has defined the future of his Ecat development: First good results with the 1 MW plant, then the next step?
    IH seems to use Andrea for the Ecat PR. No doubt they do this to keep the IH name out of the wind when things go wrong. In that case AR is the bad guy. At the same time Rossi does do a good job to create hope and expectation all over the world and when the Ecat hits the market, they will have many supporters. I expect 2015 will be an interesting year and that the Ecat will be succesful.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      I think the domestic ecat had certification problems, but the industrial ecat did not have the same problems. They got the nessecary running hours in an official industrial reactor as part of the requirements for the domestic ecat. Now that those hours and running data of the industrial reactor are available, they can start to convince the certification authorities with said data to certify the home unit. Of course the development of the home unit also continued and now they have improved on the design and most likely on the COP too. At least this is how I expect the process to be.

  • Alberonn

    This is a “long-expected party”… I hate to poop it a bit, but where will this technology hatch ? I mean, not just the E-cat, but LENR-technology in general. Most likely it will not be possible to launch this technology on an effectively large scale in the USA (or Russia) for the following reasons : the very existence of the US of A is, like that of Russia, dependent on fossil fuel (petrol-dollar?), the american economy with the oversized national debt and consumption is virtually owned by China, it’s vested interests in fossil fuel are unimaginable… : Applied LENR-technology will disrupt all this BIG TIME…
    The local PTB in the west and Russia will come to realize this on short term (maybe they do already…) and will do ANYTHING to delay, in their ( IMHO futile ) hope to synchronize developments a bit and thus cling to the present status quo. That is why I am so happy with the “now and future” Parkhomov’s : in Rossi’s words : “no stopping any more…” Objectively seen : China Needs it, Wants it and can Manage it and will probably wash away our “Castles in the Sand” with it… (BTW : I am certainly no Chinese :-))

    • Alan DeAngelis
    • I think it’s likely that the US government knows about this tech now at the highest levels. Our next presidential election is Nov ’16. I think that puts an upper bound on the introduction of LENR. Democrats might (rightly, in my opinion) conclude that Republicans, if they gain total control of the Executive and Legislative Branches might decide to indefinitely delay the tech — at least in the USA — to give their benefactors a chance to engineer a softer landing. So the Dems will get it out in ’16, latest.

      • Jimr

        As you replied in your previous post I suggest you ” keep your politics to yourself please” , your exact words.

        • My words are facts and educated guesses on the situation as best I can make out, not judgmental.

          • psi2u2

            The fact is, it seems to me, that both parties are affiliated with vested interests of various kinds, but I tend to agree with LENR G – with no judgement implied or necessary — that on this topic the GOP has a much bigger vested interest – not to mention that it would greatly benefit whatever party has the White House to announce this as a done deal, i.e. the end of the petroleum age and the birth of the LENR (or whatever) age before the elections in order to ride the crest of public enthusiasm for such an announcement.

            This all seems reasonably clear and uncontroversial to me and is not motivated by politics — its only assumption is that LENR is real and imminent. Possibly we are all the victims of a collective delusion. But I doubt it….;)

    • Donk970

      I don’t much care about your politics but you really should check your facts before posting. China currently owns only about 9% of our national debt – nothing close to “most” of it. About 30% is owned by US citizens and corporations, 17% by the social security trust fund, 12% by the US federal reserve and another 10% or so by US civil service and military retirement funds. Altogether only about 30% of our national debt is owned by foreigners the majority is owned by us.

      • Jimr

        That may be one of the most interesting entrees I have read on this site for some time. Can you tell me where you found that info . Thx

        • bachcole

          I agree.

  • Tom

    Blacklight Power is going to do another demonstration on January 28th

    http://www.american-reporter.com/5,135/85.html

    • C. Kirk

      No That was a year ago…. Jan 28th 2014 not Jan 28th 2015 but I certainly hope that they a working prototype in the first quarter of 2015 ……but I highly doubt it

  • Frederic

    When A. Rossi and IH say : this version of the e-cat is good enough (reliable, easy to refill with fuel, etc.) they will go to market massively.
    But there is one condition : that this version be certified.
    This will be fast in China.
    It will be all the more fast that IH has “trained” certifiers to certify e-cats of previous versions.
    IH will first launch industrial units.
    My guess is that it won’t take long (in China again) after that for IH to be able to launch the domestic appliances.

  • Rossi is very worried about people stealing his invention through reverse engineering. Why doesn’t he think that he can defend his patents?

    • Axil Axil

      The USA says that LENR cannot be patented, and the Chinese don’t take patents seriously.

  • The USPTO has given patents to LENR inventions but they wont give Rossi a patent. His 2008 application had some spelling errors that turned them off to his applications. They are extreme nit pickers. And they are in genral hostile to LENR inventions since many of them are frauds. The present Chinese regime will honor THEIR patents on LENR but not those from other countries.

  • you are right in you description of the problem of petromonarchies…

    the problem is that if they don’t embrace LENR quickly it will be worst. rejecting the technology yourself does not prevent others like China, EU, Africa, to embrace it, and compete with your economy.

    you can try to block a technology on the planet, but once at least one actor is embracing it, you have to embrace or die.

    anyway it is sure that western countries, oil companies, green companies, utilities and petromonarchies will make default on their debt…
    question is how …
    monetary inflation, debt haircut, nationalized bad bank and socialized losses, ruin of pension fund assets.
    note that this may not be tragic if there is a good economic growth.
    you pension fund will be ruined by companies and states defaults, by inflation, but there will be work and good salaries to rebuild it, and social security to hel the unlucky.
    state will have to buy back the debts of utilities, but it’s budget will be much better than today.

    basically forget who will pay, if LENR make real saving including the losses, it will be good for all, and the losers will just negociate with us, the winners.

  • US_Citizen71

    The who is quite easy, the US Navy. LENR is ideal for ship propulsion and is the low hanging fruit when it comes to military adoption. I would assume much like the development of the USS Nautilus (SSN-571) work on the power plant would proceed the announcement of the technology and the first ship by several years.

  • GreenWin
  • GreenWin

    Happy New Year Andy! Another champion year for LENR. Greatest danger now? Avoiding those oil tankers shipwrecked on the shores of reality. 🙂

  • GreenWin

    Rog, you sound just like the Last Man Standing!

  • GreenWin

    Great new activity in research, replications and domestic commercialization. With Ahern, Parkhomov, Robert Duncan – Texas Tech, MFMP, Elforsk, and who knows what at NRL, SRI, NASA, ENEA, etc etc. — it’s beginning to look like the “juggernaut” bachole has predicted. What remains most convincing for me is the continued, steady, collapse in oil pricing. To date this has transferred Trillion$ from the oil cartels to us regular Joes. Newfound cash in the pockets of consumers is lofting the economies of industrialized nations. This alone is revolution; without a single shot fired.
    Some of this monopoly money will find its way into the LENR community which is witnessing a swift expansion. With Russians, U Missouri and now Texas Tech’s (1) Anomalous Heat initiative underway, it’s only a matter of time before stodgy old MIT and Andy’s Caltech face the music. Oh what a beautiful morning. 🙂 Congratulations to all those who have stayed the course for 25 years, and to those who are climbing aboard the LENR train now. It is an astonishing achievement to have come this far and the best, most FUN is yet to come!
    The first Martin Luther nailed a list of 95 theses to the door of the Pope’s cathedral. Martin Luther King induced the non-violent passage of civil rights for black Americans. Today’s holiday recognizing MLK feels fully aligned with a new, non-violent revolution – LENR. Happy Holiday!!
    (1) Texas Tech is at the very heart of petroleum research funding in the USA. It’s new research leader Dr. Robert Duncan is an LENR pioneer.

  • Omega Z

    Doctor’s Degree in Philosophy from Milan University 1975 (Dottore Magistrale in Filosofia) Università degli studi di Milano 1975) where he conducted his thesis on relativity.

    http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3197200.ece/BINARY/Rossi_degree_University_Milan.pdf

    • Mike

      Well that is not exactly a PhD including research. When I read the Wikipedia article on Academic degrees
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree
      the Dottore Magistrale seems to be equivalent to a Masters degree. Note that Mr Rossi got his degree in 1975, when he was 25. Extremely few people becomes PhD at that age when you think that you first need a masters degree and then a few years of research to be included in the PhD thesis.

      From the wiki text I copied the following from the text on Italian degrees. “The title for Laureati is, regardless of the field of study, Dottore/Dottoressa (abbrev. Dott./Dott.ssa, meaning Doctor) or Dottore/ Dottoressa Magistrale, not to be confused with the title for the PhD level graduate, which is Dottore/ Dottoressa di Ricerca.”

      By the way, has Mr Rossi lost his examination documents? This one is issued in 2011. I keep my degree documents in a safe place.

      • LilyLover

        I’d gladly call him Dr. Dr. Rossi or “The Dr.”; (Not “The Doctor” – if you know what I mean) even without his PhD for – what good has come out of millions of Ivory towered PhDs compared to what he’s about to deliver!!
        People like him bring aura of goodness the the “PhD”. The “hard work” involved in getting a PhD – is a misnomer.
        Everyone – Repeat after me – getting PhD is easy, meaningless or less meaningful than getting a good head and a good heart.

        & Mikey, if you’ve got PhD from Stanford, and if you keep talking this way about the Dr., I’ll keep referring to you as Mr. Mikey.

        Have a good day. & Try to be less vitriolic.
        Have fun.

  • Eyedoc

    But also , a lot of interns don’t really know squat when it comes to the big deals, I hope to God that the higher ups are on this….if they really are that dumb , the US is in trouble

  • psi2u2

    Thanks, don’t know how I got the other impression.

  • winebuff67

    I.H. will do no manufacturing that will be contracted out. How they handle the fuel might be another story.

  • winebuff67

    Question is will he honor his commitment to the people that signed up for the home version or do we go to the back of the line? (I ordered 2)

  • winebuff67

    Will people be able to claim their domestic cat if they signed up originally. (I ordered 2)

  • LilyLover

    Even with 60M USD, you cannot come up with “a” theory or write-up that’s non-juvenile – let alone a pioneering prototype.

    Then again, you’ll see!!

    As much as I defend Rossi, and Rossi seems to disbelieve Hydrinos, I still support Dr. Mill’s 3 Books more than the present day Ivory Tower-Talk.

    BTW He provides the theory for free. For free; not fee.