UK Energy and Climate Change Secretary on Government’s Current LENR Stance

Thanks to Gordon Docherty for forwarding to me an interesting piece of correspondence sent to him via his member of Parliament (UK) from the Secretary of Energy and Climate Change, Ed Davey in response to an inquiry Gordon had made regarding the British government’s policy on climate change.

Below is an image of Mr. Davey’s letter:Davey

The letter does not give any indication that the UK government is currently excited about the possibility of LENR, but the topic is at least on the radar (thanks to Gordon and others), and it shows that policies and procedures are in place should ‘peer review’ decide that LENR is real and viable.

  • Chris the 2nd

    As a country with no active research, and that has no existing industry in energy, except to buy others proven technology, this is a sensible position to take. A sort of is someone else can event it, we’ll use it.

    • Jonnyb

      Don’t bet on it that the U.K. has no research on LENR, it is just nobody will be at liberty to tell us. I believe that the U.K. is one of the most secretive countries in the world.

      • Chris the 2nd

        Very few people know what the UK does off books, kind of an unanswerable question.

        Science research, in the open sense has been underfunded for ages. It’s only the coalition government that has really seen the value in it and pushed it at a policy level, and backed it with Money.

        I know that Rolls Royce have a top secret nuclear reactor that is cheap and small, and in our nuclear subs, that will probably never be used outside the military even though it would solve the UK’s energy crisis almost overnight.

        • Hi all

          Rossi made clear his awareness of a competitor based in the UK, when someone posted a question the answer to which would have raised an IP issue:
          “Andrea Rossi

          January 15th, 2015 at 8:58 AM

          Greg Leonard:
          The issue is much more complicated. There are not neutrons that misteriously disappear. We are reconciling the isotopical results and will make a publication as soon as the situation will allow us to do this. Our reconciliation does not violate the Standard Model. I am working with several nuclear physicists ( one in particular, well known) upon this issue. The problem is that a full explication unavoidably has to disclose theoretical points that could bring to violate the IP.
          You know perfectly this, we know who you are in the UK, even if you make fake grammatical errors ( ” things nuclear”) to disguise your group and proclaim your “poor understanding”. When we will have reached the proper economy scale all this will be published.
          Thank you for your attention,
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.”

          In reply to this question:

          Greg Leonard

          January 15th, 2015 at 7:02 AM

          Dear AR
          I am fascinated by the isotopic changes referred to in the Lugano report.
          It leads me to ask a question – which will show my very poor understanding of things nuclear.

          If a neutron mysteriously disappears from 7LI ( to leave 6Li) and a neutron mysteriously appears at 61Ni (to become 62Ni) – has there been any overall energy change in the system?”

          Many thanks for all you have achieved so far, and for keeping us informed.
          The dawn brightens.
          regards
          GL”

          Kind Regards Walker

          • Chris the 2nd

            There’s a company that setup in Maidenhead iirc, no idea what if anything they’ve achieved.

          • It is the company of angelo Ovidi.

            Angelo Ovidi is today focused on organizing the research program of LENR Cities ecosystem, building the IP portfolio…

            his role explained here

            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/19-LENR-Cities-Report-about-the-Kick-off-meeting-in-Neuchatel/

            key position in fact.

            Without any evidence nor any checking with the team, I naively imagine Oxford conference was in UK, because of his efforts and networks… a question to ask…

          • Hi all

            In reply to Chris the 2nd & AlainCo

            I was aware of this group based on their link to LENR cities and their support of Celani
            http://www.kresenn.com/#!news

            but did you also note the address. 😉

            5A Frascati Way

            Also the office of:
            http://www.wilson-partners.co.uk/contact-us.html

            A little bit digging and you will see who their backers/investors are 😉

            Basically a channel for support on the QT by some one wanting competitors not to know what they are up to.

            A standard competitor survey and any half descent analyst would have spotted them. I am sure Industrial Heat have those capabilities, if they don’t then they should contact me 😉

            The fact Rossi is wary of them makes me think they have some information at least.

            Kind Regards walker

          • what is the investors you spotted ?

            what I know of Angelo is that LENr-Cities reference lab is taking most of his energy, and that Kresenn initial project of datacenter is for future…
            If you say me he is an evil capitalist, I won’t believe you 😉

          • Jonnyb

            Good find Chris

          • Jonnyb

            I have always suspected the U.K. Government have a leading team with LENR. Rossi knows the U.K. are well ahead of most, may be a private company but I would imagine that a government department is behind it as well. We ain’t as stupid as we think we are, the U.K. that is.

          • I don’t think so. But it can change.

            anyway for the government to do something the academic have to agree. people like harwell who participated the denial.

            anyway as Beaudette explains, the British have been much less violent agains Fleischmann (it is a US denial, followed by all Western slaves)

            “It is interesting to note Fleischmann’s response, since he is a particularly adept speaker. In an August 1992 invited speech to the British Association for the Advancement of Science (BAAS), he said, “. . . America has developed a conformist society . . . It was not that we were wrong; it was that we must stop.” Continuance would inevitably give a glow of legitimacy and thereby threaten the establishment’s verdict. Fleischmann’s point about conformity gains emphasis when one considers that it was unthinkable that the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) invite him to speak to one of their meetings.”
            http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=109

            meanwhile some big UK corps, why not a subcontractor or Airbus, may take the lead

          • Jonnyb

            Not all U.K. research is done via Universities. There are other organisations, some are kind of commercial now (but not really) that have very large budgets. Anyone who has worked in the defense industry here will know of them. You can guarantee one of these has worked on LENR in the last few years.

          • you are right.
            in US, see Navy, Nasa, SRI, private labs, Amoco, LANL…
            they all did the job
            In the france, Logchampt was a CEA engineer, but research was blocked (dixit Biberian) when one lab boss wanted a Nobel.

            anyone preferring a nobel to a million, will oppose cold fusion.

          • Jonnyb

            I hope Rossi gets both!!

          • I think he have already the milion and I won’t bet a cent on a Nobel.
            Nobel is peer reviewed ;->

          • Fortyniner

            You have much more confidence in UK politicians than I have. Reading between Davey’s lines, his words amount to “the UK govt. has heard rumours about this magic technology but will totally ignore them until reality is rammed down their collective throat by developments elsewhere”.

            If they thought there was any chance that cold fusion is real, they might not be in such a hurry to rush through ‘new nuclear’ deals that would tie us to nuclear fission at an exorbitant cost, for a couple of generations, and which would immediately become massive taxpayer albatrosses the moment the first cold fusion power station comes on line anywhere in the world.

          • Jonnyb

            UK government run the U.K. do they? in part maybe, but possibly a small part.

          • Fortyniner

            Supposedly – at least, they are the ‘front men’. Perhaps Cameron will get new instructions at the next Bilderberger meeting.

          • Jonnyb

            Frighting how bad our democracy is, our fault though as most of us have a vote.

          • bachcole

            That was funny. Why suppose that whatever he “gets” from a Bilderberger conference are instructions? Why not suppose that they are all sharing information of interest to governing industrialized 1st world nations? That is the exact crux of why I think that it is paranoia.

          • Fortyniner

            You seem to be trotting out the Bilderberg group’s standard ‘nothing to see here’ propaganda as echoed on wikipedia. Try the Sourcewatch version instead: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Bilderberg

            Unfortunately geopolitics is not an area where naivety or willful ignorance are helpful. Here are some links that might help further your understanding:

            https://www.corbettreport.com/why-we-must-oppose-bilderberg-transcript/ : “If we are attempting to communicate with those who cover their ears and hum loudly at the first sign of something that might be construed as “conspiracy theory,” maybe we should start with something they can relate to…”

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-true-story-of-the-bilderberg-group-and-what-they-may-be-planning-now/13808

            http://consciousreporter.com/conspiracy-against-consciousness/web-of-deceit-the-bilderberg-group-and-elite-powerbrokers-linked-to-the-uks-stealth-internet-censorship-coup/

          • Ted-X

            Andrea Rossi might be thinking about metastable form of nuclei, which could conceivably exchange neutrons, as their neutrons are far away from the main nuclei. The metastable nuclei are now known to be fairly stable in many cases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_isomer

            The collisions of such metastable nuclei might be the mechanism for the LENR phenomenon and may not such high energy of activation as with the “hot fusion”. Perhaps the thermal energy is sufficient in this case. And no radiation, because the whole change proceeds with “low energies”.

          • Fortyniner

            … we know who you are in the UK, even if you make fake grammatical errors ( ” things nuclear”) to disguise your group and proclaim your “poor understanding”

            An oddly paranoid response from AR to what seems to be an innocent enquiry from a ‘dabbler’ rather than an expert (and in perfectly good UK English).

        • BroKeeper

          Oh good. Rolls Royce’s for the commoners, since the opulence couldn’t care less. Or are we talking about jet engines?

          • Chris the 2nd

            No it’s a Nuclear Reactor that powers the nuclear submarine fleet. it’s small, reliable and outputs enough to power whole towns.

          • BroKeeper

            Then the US Navy more than likely has the same or working on it. Thanks.

          • Chris the 2nd

            All these annoucements coming out of Lockheed recently about what they are working, and what can be available in the “near future” on tells me they almost certainly have better and have done for a while.

          • BroKeeper

            A lot behind the curtains. Can’t wait when OZ appears. (not Omega Z)

          • Chris the 2nd

            You’re going to have to spell out that acronym, my brain isn’t parsing it this evening 🙂

          • Jonnyb

            It’s old hat, been around for years and still Nuclear with all the problems, It no answer to the problems, LENR is.

          • BroKeeper

            I’m still stuck back fifty years ago when I went through the US Naval Nuclear Power Training school near Saratoga Springs with the original compact (not so small) pressurized primary and secondary water loop reactors. That’s old hat. 🙂

          • Jonnyb

            Had it for years as Russians etc.

          • BroKeeper

            Oh, OK. You’re talking about the newer developed Thorium Reactors. I thought you were speaking of a secret LENR type device.

        • Sean
        • Ted-X

          These submarine nuclear reactor use the fuel enriched to over 50%. This kind of fuel will not fizzle in case of a trouble, but it will make a large mushroom. They can not go commercial under any circumstances, the mushroom danger is known to be possible at the enrichment level above 5.5%. Nuclear power stations operate at 5.4% enrichment, or below, exactly for that reason.

  • Chris the 2nd

    As a country with no active research, and that has no existing industry in energy, except to buy others proven technology, this is a sensible position to take. A sort of is someone else can event it, we’ll use it.

    • Jonnyb

      Don’t bet on it that the U.K. has no research on LENR, it is just nobody will be at liberty to tell us. I believe that the U.K. is one of the most secretive countries in the world.

      • Chris the 2nd

        Very few people know what the UK does off books, kind of an unanswerable question.

        Science research, in the open sense has been underfunded for ages. It’s only the coalition government that has really seen the value in it and pushed it at a policy level, and backed it with Money.

        I know that Rolls Royce have a top secret nuclear reactor that is cheap and small, and in our nuclear subs, that will probably never be used outside the military even though it would solve the UK’s energy crisis almost overnight.

        • Hi all

          Rossi made clear his awareness of a competitor based in the UK, when someone posted a question the answer to which would have raised an IP issue:
          “Andrea Rossi

          January 15th, 2015 at 8:58 AM

          Greg Leonard:
          The issue is much more complicated. There are not neutrons that misteriously disappear. We are reconciling the isotopical results and will make a publication as soon as the situation will allow us to do this. Our reconciliation does not violate the Standard Model. I am working with several nuclear physicists ( one in particular, well known) upon this issue. The problem is that a full explication unavoidably has to disclose theoretical points that could bring to violate the IP.
          You know perfectly this, we know who you are in the UK, even if you make fake grammatical errors ( ” things nuclear”) to disguise your group and proclaim your “poor understanding”. When we will have reached the proper economy scale all this will be published.
          Thank you for your attention,
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.”

          In reply to this question:

          Greg Leonard

          January 15th, 2015 at 7:02 AM

          Dear AR
          I am fascinated by the isotopic changes referred to in the Lugano report.
          It leads me to ask a question – which will show my very poor understanding of things nuclear.

          If a neutron mysteriously disappears from 7LI ( to leave 6Li) and a neutron mysteriously appears at 61Ni (to become 62Ni) – has there been any overall energy change in the system?”

          Many thanks for all you have achieved so far, and for keeping us informed.
          The dawn brightens.
          regards
          GL”

          Kind Regards Walker

          • Chris the 2nd

            There’s a company that setup in Maidenhead iirc, no idea what if anything they’ve achieved.

            *edit* here they are
            http://www.kresenn.com/

          • It is the company of angelo Ovidi.

            Angelo Ovidi is today focused on organizing the research program of LENR Cities ecosystem, building the IP portfolio…

            his role explained here

            http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/19-LENR-Cities-Report-about-the-Kick-off-meeting-in-Neuchatel/

            key position in fact.

            Without any evidence nor any checking with the team, I naively imagine Oxford conference was in UK, because of his efforts and networks… a question to ask…

          • Hi all

            In reply to Chris the 2nd & AlainCo

            I was aware of this group based on their link to LENR cities and their support of Celani
            http://www.kresenn.com/#!news

            but did you also note the address. 😉

            5A Frascati Way

            Also the office of:
            http://www.wilson-partners.co.uk/contact-us.html

            A little bit digging and you will see who their backers/investors are 😉

            Basically a channel for support on the QT by some one wanting competitors not to know what they are up to.

            A standard competitor survey and any half descent analyst would have spotted them. I am sure Industrial Heat have those capabilities, if they don’t then they should contact me 😉

            Obvious things like Wealth Management, links to big money and senior Ministers in the UK Government, the fact that they are a company that can mix it with the big financial service companies like:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_%28audit_firms%29
            While remaining under the radar, tells you what they do.

            The fact Rossi is wary of them makes me think they have some information at least.

            Kind Regards walker

          • what is the investors you spotted ?

            what I know of Angelo is that LENr-Cities reference lab is taking most of his energy, and that Kresenn initial project of datacenter is for future…
            If you say me he is an evil capitalist, I won’t believe you 😉

          • Jonnyb

            Good find Chris

          • Jonnyb

            I have always suspected the U.K. Government have a leading team with LENR. Rossi knows the U.K. are well ahead of most, may be a private company but I would imagine that a government department is behind it as well. We ain’t as stupid as we think we are, the U.K. that is.

          • I don’t think so. But it can change.

            anyway for the government to do something the academic have to agree. people like harwell who participated the denial.

            anyway as Beaudette explains, the British have been much less violent agains Fleischmann (it is a US denial, followed by all Western slaves)

            “It is interesting to note Fleischmann’s response, since he is a particularly adept speaker. In an August 1992 invited speech to the British Association for the Advancement of Science (BAAS), he said, “. . . America has developed a conformist society . . . It was not that we were wrong; it was that we must stop.” Continuance would inevitably give a glow of legitimacy and thereby threaten the establishment’s verdict. Fleischmann’s point about conformity gains emphasis when one considers that it was unthinkable that the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) invite him to speak to one of their meetings.”
            http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=109

            meanwhile some big UK corps, why not a subcontractor or Airbus, may take the lead

          • Jonnyb

            Not all U.K. research is done via Universities. There are other organisations, some are kind of commercial now (but not really) that have very large budgets. Anyone who has worked in the defense industry here will know of them. You can guarantee one of these has worked on LENR in the last few years.

          • you are right.
            in US, see Navy, Nasa, SRI, private labs, Amoco, LANL…
            they all did the job
            In the france, Logchampt was a CEA engineer, but research was blocked (dixit Biberian) when one lab boss wanted a Nobel.
            CNAM did the job for Shell.
            BARC did it in india.
            Toyota, Mitsubishi do it.

            anyone preferring a nobel to a million, will oppose cold fusion.

          • Jonnyb

            I hope Rossi gets both!!

          • I think he have already the milion and I won’t bet a cent on a Nobel.
            Nobel is peer reviewed ;->

          • You have much more confidence in UK politicians than I have. Reading between Davey’s lines, his words amount to “the UK govt. has heard rumours about this magic technology but will totally ignore them until reality is rammed down our collective throat by developments elsewhere”.

            If they thought there was any chance that cold fusion is real, they might not be in such a hurry to rush through ‘new nuclear’ deals that would tie us to nuclear fission at an exorbitant cost, for a couple of generations, and which would immediately become massive taxpayer albatrosses the moment the first cold fusion power station comes on line anywhere in the world.

            That isn’t to say though that some UK based commercial entities such as Rolls Royce, Alstom Power, Westinghouse Ltd. or Hitachi-GE Ltd. aren’t on the case.

          • Jonnyb

            UK government run the U.K. do they? in part maybe, but possibly a small part.

          • Supposedly – at least, they are the ‘front men’. Perhaps Cameron will get new instructions at the next Bilderberger meeting, assuming that the sheeple are moronic enough to re-elect him.

          • Jonnyb

            Frighting how bad our democracy is, our fault though as most of us have a vote.

          • bachcole

            That was funny. Why suppose that whatever he “gets” from a Bilderberger conference are instructions? Why not suppose that they are all sharing information of interest to governing industrialized 1st world nations? That is the exact crux of why I think that it is paranoia.

          • You seem to be trotting out the Bilderberg group’s standard ‘nothing to see here’ propaganda as echoed on wikipedia. Try the Sourcewatch version instead: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Bilderberg

            Unfortunately geopolitics is not an area where naivety or willful ignorance are helpful. Here are some links that might help further your understanding:

            https://www.corbettreport.com/why-we-must-oppose-bilderberg-transcript/ : “If we are attempting to communicate with those who cover their ears and hum loudly at the first sign of something that might be construed as “conspiracy theory,” maybe we should start with something they can relate to…”

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-true-story-of-the-bilderberg-group-and-what-they-may-be-planning-now/13808

            http://consciousreporter.com/conspiracy-against-consciousness/web-of-deceit-the-bilderberg-group-and-elite-powerbrokers-linked-to-the-uks-stealth-internet-censorship-coup/

          • bachcole

            Which ever way that you suppose it (instructions or sharing information) will lead you to the sources that you read.

          • Ted-X

            Andrea Rossi might be thinking about metastable form of nuclei, which could conceivably exchange neutrons, as their neutrons are far away from the main nuclei. The metastable nuclei are now known to be fairly stable in many cases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_isomer

            The collisions of such metastable nuclei might be the mechanism for the LENR phenomenon and may not such high energy of activation as with the “hot fusion”. Perhaps the thermal energy is sufficient in this case. And no radiation, because the whole change proceeds with “low energies”.

          • giovanniontheweb

            alfa energy level model applies to free nucleons as for classical fusion models, we cannot expect to use the same model for a constraint lattice environments and pretend that it works.

          • Eyedoc

            Wow, the way I read Rossi here, he is saying he knows who is behind the ‘Greg Leonard’ pseudonym, and takes affront to this UK source of questioning. Interesting ! Again so much behind the scenes

          • … we know who you are in the UK, even if you make fake grammatical errors ( ” things nuclear”) to disguise your group and proclaim your “poor understanding”

            An oddly paranoid response from AR to what seems to be an innocent enquiry from an informed observer like many here, rather than an expert (and in perfectly good UK English).

        • Brokeeper

          Oh good. Rolls Royce’s for the commoners, since the opulence couldn’t care less. Or are we talking about jet engines?

          • Chris the 2nd

            No it’s a Nuclear Reactor that powers the nuclear submarine fleet. it’s small, reliable and outputs enough to power whole towns.

          • Brokeeper

            Then the US Navy more than likely has the same or working on it. I wasn’t aware they developed nuclear reactors. Thanks.

          • Chris the 2nd

            All these annoucements coming out of Lockheed recently about what they are working, and what can be available in the “near future” on tells me they almost certainly have better and have done for a while.

          • Brokeeper

            A lot behind the curtains. Can’t wait when OZ appears. (not Omega Z)

          • Chris the 2nd

            You’re going to have to spell out that acronym, my brain isn’t parsing it this evening 🙂

          • Jonnyb

            It’s old hat, been around for years and still Nuclear with all the problems, It no answer to the problems, LENR is.

          • Brokeeper

            I’m still stuck back fifty years ago when I went through the US Naval Nuclear Power Training school near Saratoga Springs with the original compact (not so small) pressurized primary and secondary water loop reactors. That’s old hat. 🙂

          • Jonnyb

            Had it for years as Russians etc.

          • Brokeeper

            Oh, OK. You’re talking about the newer developed Thorium Reactors. I thought you were speaking of a secret LENR type device.

        • Sean
        • Ted-X

          These submarine nuclear reactor use the fuel enriched to over 50%. This kind of fuel will not fizzle in case of a trouble, but it will make a large mushroom. They can not go commercial under any circumstances, the mushroom danger is known to be possible at the enrichment level above 5.5%. Nuclear power stations operate at 5.4% enrichment, or below, exactly for that reason.

  • Sanjeev

    Gordon should have sent him a list of peer reviewed papers on lenr, there are many on lenr-canr.org.

  • Sanjeev

    Gordon should have sent him a list of peer reviewed papers on lenr, there are many on lenr-canr.org.

  • Billy Jackson

    It states the obvious and logical conclusion.. when its proven and ready as a product they will be there until then its still on the drawing board as a possible future scenario if it proves itself. This would be the stance i would expect many people to take that had they no to little information on the subject.

    • Jarea

      For me that is not obvious. For me That is lazyness. the politicians dont move until somebody tell them. In my opinion they should inform themselves and then invest a short program to reproduce Rossi and CO results. That is vital for new technologies and the gain is too big for the cost of the trial.
      For me that answer is too politically correct. Good that they said they know LENR but being passive in europe is not enough.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Billy, I have to disagree with you on this. Their stance is not uninformed neutrality, it is obstructionist. We live in a world in search of a replacement energy technology, the Energy Secretary is expected to be seeking new technology and states that for this technology it has to miraculously leap from the womb a fully mature adult ready to compete on it’s own. This sentiment is just short of “kill it before it grows”.

      Essentially his statement says that if it can replace existing technology with no support whatsoever we will not attempt to stop it. Encouraging words indeed.

      That loosely translates:
      Endeavor to persevere!

      • Billy Jackson

        As always lady O. I respect your opinion and even see your point of view.

        LENR is still in the laboratory phase. Until the current information on the 1mw consumer plant is released for public consumption then we have nothing more than 2 test results and alot of conflicting reports by some very prestigious people on both sides of the argument for LENR.

        If i was in a position to choose how to spend tax payer funds, such as this secretary of energy, my choice right now would be to sit and watch the development It would be my responsibility to choose projects with a greater chance of success that are further along in development to spend my research funds on.

        As the development matured that would change.

        The key here for us is personal knowledge. we sit here day in and day out reading opinion pieces or each others view points on how we see developing stories unfold. that’s a level of personal knowledge that a secretary reading official reports just does not have. There are assumptions made by us based on that daily information that turn out to be false (31 day test instead of 6 month). as a secretary of energy they dont often get many chances at being wrong before you kind of loose the job. And cold fusion/ LENR is one of those things that could quickly cause praise or condemnation from the public if it fails to deliver…..Caution and Obstruction can at times seem the same thing depending on your view point, for now.. we can only wait and see.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        But Ophelia, LENR has appeared in the same shabby journal that Erwin Schrödinger’s stupid papers about a dead cat were published. LENR needs a real peer review.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4qcM-sibaY

  • Billy Jackson

    It states the obvious and logical conclusion.. when its proven and ready as a product they will be there until then its still on the drawing board as a possible future scenario if it proves itself. This would be the stance i would expect many people to take that had they no to little information on the subject.

    • Jarea

      For me that is not obvious. For me That is lazyness. the politicians dont move until somebody tell them. In my opinion they should inform themselves and then invest a short program to reproduce Rossi and CO results. That is vital for new technologies and the gain is too big for the cost of the trial.
      For me that answer is too politically correct. Good that they said they know LENR but being passive in europe is not enough.

      • giovanniontheweb

        eventually not everyone feels the risk in the same way which is still fair, that is why in the human history never politicians were a key part of any important steps in discoveries, yet likely that is still happening. Two worlds two speeds and the need for both of them

    • Ophelia Rump

      Billy, I have to disagree with you on this. Their stance is not uninformed neutrality, it is obstructionist. We live in a world in search of a replacement energy technology, the Energy Secretary is expected to be seeking new technology and states that for this technology it has to miraculously leap from the womb a fully mature adult ready to compete on it’s own. This sentiment is just short of “kill it before it grows”.

      Essentially his statement says that if it can replace existing technology with no support whatsoever we will not attempt to stop it. Encouraging words indeed.

      That loosely translates:
      Endeavor to persevere!

      • Billy Jackson

        As always lady O. I respect your opinion and even see your point of view.

        LENR is still in the laboratory phase. Until the current information on the 1mw consumer plant is released for public consumption then we have nothing more than 2 test results and alot of conflicting reports by some very prestigious people on both sides of the argument for LENR.

        If i was in a position to choose how to spend tax payer funds, such as this secretary of energy, my choice right now would be to sit and watch the development It would be my responsibility to choose projects with a greater chance of success that are further along in development to spend my research funds on.

        As the development matured that would change.

        The key here for us is personal knowledge. we sit here day in and day out reading opinion pieces or each others view points on how we see developing stories unfold. that’s a level of personal knowledge that a secretary reading official reports just does not have. There are assumptions made by us based on that daily information that turn out to be false (31 day test instead of 6 month). as a secretary of energy they dont often get many chances at being wrong before you kind of loose the job. And cold fusion/ LENR is one of those things that could quickly cause praise or condemnation from the public if it fails to deliver…..Caution and Obstruction can at times seem the same thing depending on your view point, for now.. we can only wait and see.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        But Ophelia, LENR has appeared in the same shabby journal that Erwin Schrödinger’s stupid papers about a dead cat were published. LENR needs a real peer review.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4qcM-sibaY

  • Good work Gordon!

  • Good work Gordon!

  • Gerard McEk

    It is as it always has been: no one in politics dares to take any responsibility and they simply look to the scientific and academic world to guide them. These scientific guys say it is not possible, so nothing moves.
    We have to wait for the commercial proof and I am sure that will happen this year. Nevertheless Gordon, it is always good to make people aware what is going on. That can make people move in an other direction, because now they are aware that there is an alternative route to a greener world.

    • they will ask Harwell…

      now since few days maybe is it not so bad 😉

      • Mats002

        A few days ago you rolled over in laughter at Harwell, what happened in between now and then?

    • clovis ray

      Shouldn’t that be a Greenyer world, lol

      • Gerard McEk

        Indeed! lol 🙂

  • Gerard McEk

    It is as it always has been: no one in politics dares to take any responsibility and they simply look to the scientific and academic world to guide them. These scientific guys say it is not possible, so nothing moves.
    We have to wait for the commercial proof and I am sure that will happen this year. Nevertheless Gordon, it is always good to make people aware what is going on. That can make people move in an other direction, because now they are aware that there is an alternative route to a greener world.

    • they will ask Harwell…

      now since few days maybe is it not so bad 😉

      • Mats002

        A few days ago you rolled over in laughter at Harwell, what happened in between now and then?

    • clovis ray

      Shouldn’t that be a Greenyer world, lol

      • Gerard McEk

        Indeed! lol 🙂

  • LENR4you

    Join our campaign!
    No Money for Nuclear Power – Stop Brussels!
    http://bit.ly/15tFqid
    Nuclear power station at Hinkley Point.

    • Fortyniner

      Thanks for that LENR4you. I’ve forwarded the video link to website admin at http://www.stophinkley.org for possible inclusion on the site.

  • LENR4you

    Join our campaign!
    No Money for Nuclear Power – Stop Brussels!
    http://bit.ly/15tFqid
    Nuclear power station at Hinkley Point.

  • Observer

    Peers are the people that explorers leave at the pier.

    • Mats002

      🙂 looking back at that crowd would be a ‘peer review’ then…

      • builditnow

        peer rearview is more precise … 🙂

  • Bob Greenyer

    The MFMP has a member that has been regularly in the company of Ed Davey. When we have a reproducible experiment, it will be under his nose ASAP.

    • Billy Jackson

      that’s good to hear! now we sit and wait.. i think by now we should be earning our expert title’s on that when it comes to LENR results… 🙂

    • Axil Axil

      Recently, Piantelli spent a lot of time informing MFMP on the all important matter of credibility in LENR experimental claims.

      Principally about the HUGE amount of energy that can be stored in various forms of Hydrogen and that must absolutely be excluded before a threshold for anomalous heat is met. Below that threshold no meaningful conclusion could be had about anomalous heat.

      He talked about ionization, absorption, re-combination, para and ortho and various charge states etc. Just ionization energy of 1.008 g (1 mole of Hydrogen) is 1,312 kilojoules, the re-combination is 423 kilojoules and so on. Without a full account of the amount of potential hydrogen in a reaction, results are a fantasy and will not be taken seriously.

      A weak LENR system that operates at or near that observation threshold cannot use heat as a indicate of a positive LENR reaction.

      Other criteria must be used to mark the start of the LENR reaction.

      The nano-magnetic theory of LENR supports two other more sensitive indicators for the start of the LENR reaction.

      1 – onset of superconductivity which reduces the resistance of the heater wire circuit.

      2 – production of RF radiation as another energy emanation product of the LENR reaction.

      These two more sensitive indicators can be used supply experimental feedback affording the capability to improve the LENR reaction in an experiment until anomalous heat greatly surpasses the heat detection threshold.

      All the recent TPR2 replication efforts have shown #1 above, and #2 have not be checked for yet.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thankyou axil axil for this valuable contribution

      • Andreas Moraitis

        1312 kJ/mol is the ionization energy for monatomic hydrogen. For H2 it is somewhat higher, namely 1488 kJ/mol:

        http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Atomic_Theory/Ionization_Energies_of_Diatomic_Molecule

        P.S.: Axil (and some other users): Please use quotation marks or other appropriate insignia when you take a formulation from another source. Not everybody who visits this site will immediately recognize that a text or parts of it have been borrowed from elsewhere. Thanks, A.M.

      • Obvious

        A superconducting resistance wire will cease to heat up, making control by heat input impossible. No amount of current control will overcome this. The current control required for superconducting wires is a fuse to prevent a serious electrical fire when 100% of the available electrical current flows through the circuit unimpeded when delivered by the rather large supply cables such as used in the Lugano test, if such a superconducting event were to occur.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          If superconductivity were involved, as has often been suspected, it would presumably occur in the fuel, not in the heating wires. However, the apparent resistance of the wires would possibly be influenced by the magnetic fields which result from strong electric currents in the reactor core.

          • Obvious

            Superconductivity in the fuel is something that I consider possible to probable. I am certain that supposing it to occur in the heater wires is a theoretical dead end. It just adds one more “miracle” to the one(s) occurring in the reactor. This is not to say that it cannot be happening, but what purpose would it serve? How does this jive with using gas heat input? How can control be obtained by heat when as a superconductor, it cannot Joule heat? At best it would transmit all the heat losslessly. If that could be done, that would be a billion dollar discovery in itself.

        • Axil Axil

          http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/815-Lugano-e-cat-test-report-power-in-measurement-anomaly/

          The report contains the following measurements for the three cases of dummy test, 1250C test, and 1400C test.

          see table in reference

          The point is that these measurements are all made by the same equipment, and although assumptions such as the resistivity of the leads etc may be incorrect, the ratio of these powers will always indicate the ratio in resistance of the leads and the Inconel wire heating element. We know the leads are mostly copper and also don’t vary much in temperature, so there would seem to be a change in resistivity of the heating element by a factor of 3.3 between the dummy tests and the two active tests.

          Interestingly the hotter active test (an extra 150C) does not change the resistivity, as shown by this ratio, by more than 1%. So we have an anomalous 300% change from 500C to 1250C, and a 1% change from 1250C to 1400C.

          That is inconceivable, especially because data on Inconel 625 (a high temperature Inconel alloy such as was presumably used) shows less than 5% change over the range 20C to 1090C. See data here.

          So we have a X3.3 anomaly in the two methods of measuring power. Either the dummy is wrong or the active test is wrong. We know the dummy is correct (to within 10%) because it matched measured power out. Therefore the dummy ratio is approximately correct, 75, and the correct input power for the active runs is some 3.3X larger than the report power measurement for these cases.

          • Obvious

            Or Inconel leads went silicon carbide resistors. Or the reactor was wired as a wye for the dummy run. Or the crystal structure of the resistor changes to a beta state after a burn-in period…
            Inconel should have melted anyways, so I seriously doubt that any normal variety was used, and much more likely it wasn’t used at all.

          • I don’t think it was inconel, except for the connectors on the sides.
            it is rational to use inconel at the temperature of the cap, not at the one of the body.
            SiC seems the good choice, or even some high band gap ceramic like ZiO2…

            changing of the firing schedule of the triac seems to be an evidence for me… I did not study enough to know if it could be possible to change the apparent resistance of the load while not rewiring

          • Observer

            Thermal expansion is a wonderful mechanism to create a thermal switch. What if the coils expand to the point where adjacent coils touch?

  • Bob Greenyer

    The MFMP has a member that has been regularly in the company of Ed Davey. When we have a reproducible experiment, it will be under his nose ASAP.

    • Billy Jackson

      that’s good to hear! now we sit and wait.. i think by now we should be earning our expert title’s on that when it comes to LENR results… 🙂

    • Axil Axil

      Recently, Piantelli spent a lot of time informing MFMP on the all important matter of credibility in LENR experimental claims.

      Principally about the HUGE amount of energy that can be stored in various forms of Hydrogen and that must absolutely be excluded before a threshold for anomalous heat is met. Below that threshold no meaningful conclusion could be had about anomalous heat.

      He talked about ionization, absorption, re-combination, para and ortho and various charge states etc. Just ionization energy of 1.008 g (1 mole of Hydrogen) is 1,312 kilojoules, the re-combination is 423 kilojoules and so on. Without a full account of the amount of potential hydrogen in a reaction, results are a fantasy and will not be taken seriously.

      A weak LENR system that operates at or near that observation threshold cannot use heat as a indicate of a positive LENR reaction.

      Other criteria must be used to mark the start of the LENR reaction.

      The nano-magnetic theory of LENR supports two other more sensitive indicators for the start of the LENR reaction.

      1 – onset of superconductivity which reduces the resistance of the heater wire circuit.

      2 – production of RF radiation as another energy emanation product of the LENR reaction.

      These two more sensitive indicators can be used to supply experimental feedback affording the capability to gradually improve the LENR reaction in an experiment until anomalous heat greatly surpasses the heat detection threshold.

      All the recent TPR2 replication efforts have shown #1 above, and #2 has yet to be checked for.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thankyou axil axil for this valuable contribution

      • Andreas Moraitis

        1312 kJ/mol is the ionization energy for monatomic hydrogen. For H2 it is somewhat higher, namely 1488 kJ/mol:

        http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Atomic_Theory/Ionization_Energies_of_Diatomic_Molecule

        P.S.: Axil (and some other users): Please use quotation marks or other appropriate insignia when you take a formulation from another source. Not everybody who visits this site will immediately recognize that a text or parts of it have been borrowed from elsewhere. Thanks, A.M.

      • Obvious

        A superconducting resistance wire will cease to heat up, making control by heat input impossible. No amount of current control will overcome this. The current control required for superconducting wires is a fuse to prevent a serious electrical fire when 100% of the available electrical current flows through the circuit unimpeded when delivered by the rather large supply cables such as used in the Lugano test, if such a superconducting event were to occur.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          If superconductivity were involved, as has often been suspected, it would presumably occur in the fuel, not in the heating wires. However, the apparent resistance of the wires would possibly be influenced by the magnetic fields which result from strong electric currents in the reactor core.

          • Obvious

            Superconductivity in the fuel is something that I consider possible to probable. I am certain that supposing it to occur in the heater wires is a theoretical dead end. It just adds one more “miracle” to the one(s) occurring in the reactor. This is not to say that it cannot be happening, but what purpose would it serve? How does this jive with using gas heat input? How can control be obtained by heat when as a superconductor, it cannot Joule heat? At best it would transmit all the heat losslessly. If that could be done, that would be a billion dollar discovery in itself.

        • Axil Axil

          http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/815-Lugano-e-cat-test-report-power-in-measurement-anomaly/

          The report contains the following measurements for the three cases of dummy test, 1250C test, and 1400C test.

          see table in reference

          The point is that these measurements are all made by the same equipment, and although assumptions such as the resistivity of the leads etc may be incorrect, the ratio of these powers will always indicate the ratio in resistance of the leads and the Inconel wire heating element. We know the leads are mostly copper and also don’t vary much in temperature, so there would seem to be a change in resistivity of the heating element by a factor of 3.3 between the dummy tests and the two active tests.

          Interestingly the hotter active test (an extra 150C) does not change the resistivity, as shown by this ratio, by more than 1%. So we have an anomalous 300% change from 500C to 1250C, and a 1% change from 1250C to 1400C.

          That is inconceivable, especially because data on Inconel 625 (a high temperature Inconel alloy such as was presumably used) shows less than 5% change over the range 20C to 1090C. See data here.

          So we have a X3.3 anomaly in the two methods of measuring power. Either the dummy is wrong or the active test is wrong. We know the dummy is correct (to within 10%) because it matched measured power out. Therefore the dummy ratio is approximately correct, 75, and the correct input power for the active runs is some 3.3X larger than the report power measurement for these cases.

          • Obvious

            Or Inconel leads went to silicon carbide resistors. Or the reactor was wired as a wye for the dummy run. Or the crystal structure of the resistor changes to a beta state after a burn-in period…
            Inconel should have melted anyways, so I seriously doubt that any normal variety was used, and much more likely it wasn’t used at all.

          • I don’t think it was inconel, except for the connectors on the sides.
            it is rational to use inconel at the temperature of the cap, not at the one of the body.
            SiC seems the good choice, or even some high band gap ceramic like ZiO2…

            changing of the firing schedule of the triac seems to be an evidence for me… I did not study enough to know if it could be possible to change the apparent resistance of the load while not rewiring

          • Observer

            Thermal expansion is a wonderful mechanism to create a thermal switch. What if the coils expand to the point where adjacent coils touch?

  • Jack T.

    Hey I thought we weren’t going to use the N-word!

    It all comes down to peer review. I have a problem with this. Sophisticated cutting edge pushing the envelope processes are better accomplished by tiny skunk works types of operations in small companies run by geniuses and entrepreneurs. Peer review is for sinecure scientists and educators on the government dole.

    In my opinion there’s a better way for the government to approach this issue. The carrot is a $1 billion tax-free X prize for the first guy to come along and prove cold fusion is real and reproduce-able. The stick is the X prize takes the excuse away. The current modus operandi is I have it but I can’t tell you about it because I want to make lots of money from my invention. $1B should be enough for Rossi or Parkhomov to live very comfortably.

  • Jack T.

    Hey I thought we weren’t going to use the N-word!

    It all comes down to peer review. I have a problem with this. Sophisticated cutting edge pushing the envelope processes are better accomplished by tiny skunk works types of operations in small companies run by geniuses and entrepreneurs. Peer review is for sinecure scientists and educators on the government dole.

    In my opinion there’s a better way for the government to approach this issue. The carrot is a $1 billion tax-free X prize for the first guy to come along and prove cold fusion is real and reproduce-able. The stick is the X prize takes the excuse away. The current modus operandi is I have it but I can’t tell you about it because I want to make lots of money from my invention. $1B should be enough for Rossi or Parkhomov to live very comfortably.

  • Flo

    Correct.

  • roseland67

    The “Office of Strategery” in Davos is predicting the collapse of the industrials in Europe due to the impact of the shale gas revolution in the USA.
    It appears that they are either un-aware of LENR or convinced that it has no future in the short to mid term as it has not even been mentioned.
    Maybe they know something everyone else doesn’t?

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101365772

  • Chris, Italy

    Typical of gov’t.

  • Chris, Italy

    Typical of gov’t.

  • Dave Lawton

    It was the same answer I recieved from one of their nuclear physicists when I phoned the department a few years ago.No change there then.

  • jousterusa

    Seems like in the last week or so we’ve seen signs of interest from Russians, Norwegians and the English.

    Where is America? For those unfamiliar with it, the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121 will connect you immediately to the offices of your Congressperson and US Senator.

    Call tomorrow and ask them why they’ve got their thumb up it while the rest of the world is cooking with gas, as they say. It’s time Americans learn what the future has in store for them!

    • greggoble

      Here is one example… out of Vermont USA, advanced LENR science and applied engineering. Right now they are doing alot, not publishing much.

      Retired U.S. Rear Admiral Craig E. Steidle of Seldon Technologies cold fusion/LENR nanotube-based nuclear power systems.

      Rear Admiral Craig E. Steidle – USN, NASA, DoD

      Admiral Craig E. Steidle served as the first Associate Administrator of the Office of Exploration Systems at NASA (now known as the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate), an organization formed to implement NASA’s human exploration of the solar system as announced in the Vision for Space Exploration. Adm. Steidle served as the Director of the Department of Defense (DoD) Joint Advanced Strike Technology Office and was the Director of the Joint Strike Fighter Program, DoD’s largest program.

      Admiral Steidle officially resigned from the position of associate administrator for exploration systems in June 2005. He served as a Visiting Professor in Aerospace Engineering at the U.S. Naval Academy for five years and then briefly as the President of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation before fully retiring in 2011.

      Seldon Technologies, NASA, and LENR
      http://coldfusionnow.org/seldon-technologies-nasa-and-lenr/

      • US_Citizen71

        Well at least they are dreamers or that is what I get from their company’s name. I can’t help but think of Hari Seldon everytime I see them mentioned anywhere.

        Being associated with a money pit program like the JSF is not a great credential unless you’re looking for someone to teach you how to suckle at the government teat, in my opinion.

        • greggoble

          US Citizen71

          JASTO Joint Advaned Strike Technology Office and NOES the NASA Office of Exploration Systems laboratories are funded by U.S. taxdollars and are amongst the most advanced groups of labs in the world.

          “you’re looking for someone to teach you how to suckle at the government teat, in my opinion”

          You answered a question that I did not ask… and your answer doesn’t discredit the technology or the company, not even that two bits about the money pit. Love you man…

          • US_Citizen71

            Gee I never knew it was a requirement for someone to ask a question in order for someone else to make a comment. I was under the impression that free speech was allowed here my mistake thanks for setting me straight. (/sarcasm)

            You must either work there or be heavily invested in the company in order to get that bent out of shape over my comment. Which is it?

          • greggoble

            Free speech begets free speech. Put a cork in it, never would I recommend that of you. I’m flexible and bend easily, yoga ya’ know.

            Anyways, seems we’re arguing a moot point here… we most likely agree more than we disagree. Love you man… “U.S. LENR Manhattan Project and U.S. Advanced LENR Technology” http://gbgoble.kinja.com/u-s-lenr-manhattan-project-u-s-advanced-lenr-techno-1586883119

    • Omega Z

      Where is America?

      I hear there are about a dozen or so vetting a 1Mw Lt E-cat Pilot Plant somewhere in North Carolina. I wouldn’t trade that for all the other discussions in the rest of the World tho I’m sure they would trade to have that pilot plant in their countries.

      I suspect there is much more going on that we just don’t hear about. If your question is to where’s the politico’s, I doubt you’ll hear anything from the U.S. Politicians until the pilot plant is as Rossi says, Consolidated.

      Note that if you pay close attention to what Mckubre has stated, It sounds as if a lot of Big Players are watching very closely just biding their time. Ready to Jump at the opportune time.. That Time is Not Yet here.

      Industrial Heat involves at least a dozen entities. Aside from Tom Darden & JT Vaughn, Who else is among that dozen. It doesn’t have to be individuals. It could include any number of big players, businesses or Corporations. Who provided Rossi with his team, the equipment & the Facilities where all the research & building is being done. Industrial Heat is but an address & a phone number. A Front….

      Did anyone Notice that back in December, Rossi mentioned driving a Tesla. Probably means absolutely nothing, But, You can’t help but wonder if a person of interest was in the passenger seat. Speaking of which, If Bill Gates is aware, you can bet Elon Musk is as well.

  • jousterusa

    Seems like in the last week or so we’ve seen signs of interest from Russians, Norwegians and the English.

    Where is America? For those unfamiliar with it, the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121 will connect you immediately to the offices of your Congressperson and US Senator.

    Call tomorrow and ask them why they’ve got their thumb up it while the rest of the world is cooking with gas, as they say. It’s time Americans learn what the future has in store for them!

    • greggoble

      Here is one example… out of Vermont USA, talk about advanced LENR science and applied engineering. Right now they are probably extremely busy, not publishing much. What do you all think of the credentials of this group? Pretty hot, huh?

      Retired U.S. Rear Admiral Craig E. Steidle of Seldon Technologies cold fusion/LENR nanotube-based nuclear power systems.

      Rear Admiral Craig E. Steidle – USN, NASA, DoD

      Admiral Craig E. Steidle served as the first Associate Administrator of the Office of Exploration Systems at NASA (now known as the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate), an organization formed to implement NASA’s human exploration of the solar system as announced in the Vision for Space Exploration. Adm. Steidle served as the Director of the Department of Defense (DoD) Joint Advanced Strike Technology Office and was the Director of the Joint Strike Fighter Program, DoD’s largest program.

      Admiral Steidle officially resigned from the position of associate administrator for exploration systems in June 2005. He served as a Visiting Professor in Aerospace Engineering at the U.S. Naval Academy for five years and then briefly as the President of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation before fully retiring in 2011.

      Seldon Technologies, NASA, and LENR
      http://coldfusionnow.org/seldon-technologies-nasa-and-lenr/

      • US_Citizen71

        Well at least they are dreamers or that is what I get from their company’s name. I can’t help but think of Hari Seldon everytime I see them mentioned anywhere.

        Being associated with a money pit program like the JSF is not a great credential unless you’re looking for someone to teach you how to suckle at the government teat, in my opinion.

        • greggoble

          US Citizen71

          JASTO Joint Advaned Strike Technology Office and NOES the NASA Office of Exploration Systems laboratories, funded by U.S. taxdollars and are amongst the most advanced groups of labs in the world.

          “you’re looking for someone to teach you how to suckle at the government teat, in my opinion”

          You answered a question that I did not ask… and your answer doesn’t discredit the technology or the company, not even that two bits about the money pit. Love you man…

          • US_Citizen71

            Gee I never knew it was a requirement for someone to ask a question in order for someone else to make a comment. I was under the impression that free speech was allowed here my mistake thanks for setting me straight. (/sarcasm)

            You must either work there or be heavily invested in the company in order to get that bent out of shape over my comment. Which is it?

          • greggoble

            Free speech begets free speech. Put a cork in it, never would I recommend that of you. I’m flexible and bend easily, yoga ya’ know.

            Anyways, seems we’re arguing a moot point here… we most likely agree more than we disagree. Love you man… “U.S. LENR Manhattan Project and U.S. Advanced LENR Technology” http://gbgoble.kinja.com/u-s-lenr-manhattan-project-u-s-advanced-lenr-techno-1586883119

    • Omega Z

      Where is America?

      I hear there are about a dozen or so vetting a 1Mw Lt E-cat Pilot Plant somewhere in North Carolina. I wouldn’t trade that for all the other discussions in the rest of the World tho I’m sure they would trade to have that pilot plant in their countries.

      I suspect there is much more going on that we just don’t hear about. If your question is to where’s the politico’s, I doubt you’ll hear anything from the U.S. Politicians until the pilot plant is as Rossi says, Consolidated.

      Note that if you pay close attention to what Mckubre has stated, It sounds as if a lot of Big Players are watching very closely just biding their time. Ready to Jump at the opportune time.. That Time is Not Yet here.

      Industrial Heat involves at least a dozen entities. Aside from Tom Darden & JT Vaughn, Who else is among that dozen. It doesn’t have to be individuals. It could include any number of big players, businesses or Corporations. Who provided Rossi with his team, the equipment & the Facilities where all the research & building is being done. Industrial Heat is but an address & a phone number. A Front….

      Did anyone Notice that back in December, Rossi mentioned driving a Tesla. Probably means absolutely nothing, But, You can’t help but wonder if a person of interest was in the passenger seat. Speaking of which, If Bill Gates is aware, you can bet Elon Musk is as well.

  • In this piece on nuclear power, well known energy analyst Robert Bryce mentions various new fission and hot fusion reactor designs, but not a word about LENR, even though I keep him informed on the latest developments. Is it a lack of belief or a lack of courage on his part?

    http://www.robertbryce.com/articles/600-will-obama-go-nuclear

    • Chris the 2nd

      Lack of courage, believing in LENR/Cold Fusion is akin to having doubts about dangerous associated with climate change with regards to the impact on your scientific career.

      • invient

        There is some cognitive dissonance with saying LENR is real, even as 95-99% of scientists say otherwise, while believing climate change is when the majority says so…

        Then again, the precautionary principle should always apply. LENR isn’t going to drastically shrink the human habitat, and climate change may… of course it may not, but I prefer not to be the one holding that bill when it comes due.

        • malkom700

          Yes, but it is another connection also. We must not forget that LENR is probably the last hope for rescue of the earth. Unfortunately, we can only hope that it is not already too late.

          • bachcole

            Oh, please your melodramatic perspective on the climate and environment is, well, not very mellow for me, as in, is killing me. Have you ever watched these science based shows about what will happen if human beings were to completely disappear over night. I forget the name of the shows. But they show the 1st day since humans disappear. By the first week, a lot of domestic, enclosed dogs start to starve to death. They are really quite good shows. The bottom line is that if human beings were to disappear, within 100 years most of the damage is healed. Nature has a marvellous way of asserting itself. Similar things will happen when LENR becomes common. The Golden Gate Bridge will not fall down and go boom, but the people driving across it will stop polluting. The world will become a much cleaner, greener place, and we won’t have to do a thing to make it happen, except to stop doing bad things.

      • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/mitt-romney-climate-change_n_6523530.html

        Now Mitt Romney says he believes in “Climate Change”. What politicians and public figures say they believe has allot to do with their personal goals and ambition. Romney now wants to run on a Democratic Party platform. but still be labeled a “Republican.” Where does truth and fact come into any of this?

      • greggoble

        This is changing Chris. Many scientists now see LENR research as attractive and intriguing. Over the past few months, posting LENR articles to scientific groups has met with approval. Doing so has put me as top contributor at the linked in groups; The American Nuclear Society (surprisingly), Theoretical Physics, and Quantum Physics. Also, at the Carbon War Room. Universities are warming up to the idea of including LENR in the curriculum and many have LENR research programs.

        Here is the current article at the Quantum Physics group.
        “Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson and LENR Pathological Disbelief”

        https://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=1892648&type=member&item=5962404713826631683&trk=groups_most_recent-0-b-ttl&goback=%2Egmr_1892648

  • In this piece on nuclear power, well known energy analyst Robert Bryce mentions various new fission and hot fusion reactor designs, but not a word about LENR, even though I keep him informed on the latest developments. Is it a lack of belief or a lack of courage on his part?

    http://www.robertbryce.com/articles/600-will-obama-go-nuclear

    • bachcole

      If he is making a significant percentage of his total income off of his website and other prestige writings, then he might be a coward. If not, then he is probably just not able to wrap his head around it.

    • Chris the 2nd

      Lack of courage, believing in LENR/Cold Fusion is akin to having doubts about dangerous associated with climate change with regards to the impact on your scientific career.

      • invient

        There is some cognitive dissonance with saying LENR is real, even as 95-99% of scientists say otherwise, while believing climate change is when the majority says so…

        Then again, the precautionary principle should always apply. LENR isn’t going to drastically shrink the human habitat, and climate change may… of course it may not, but I prefer not to be the one holding that bill when it comes due.

        • malkom700

          Yes, but it is another connection also. We must not forget that LENR is probably the last hope for rescue of the earth. Unfortunately, we can only hope that it is not already too late.

          • bachcole

            Oh, please your melodramatic perspective on the climate and environment is, well, not very mellow for me, as in, is killing me. Have you ever watched these science based shows about what will happen if human beings were to completely disappear over night. I forget the name of the shows. But they show the 1st day since humans disappear. By the first week, a lot of domestic, enclosed dogs start to starve to death. They are really quite good shows. The bottom line is that if human beings were to disappear, within 100 years most of the damage is healed. Nature has a marvellous way of asserting itself. Similar things will happen when LENR becomes common. The Golden Gate Bridge will not fall down and go boom, but the people driving across it will stop polluting. The world will become a much cleaner, greener place, and we won’t have to do a thing to make it happen, except to stop doing bad things.

      • greggoble

        This is changing Chris. Many scientists now see LENR research as attractive and intriguing. Over the past few months, posting LENR articles to scientific groups has met with approval. Doing so has put me as top contributor at the linked in groups; The American Nuclear Society (surprisingly), Theoretical Physics, and Quantum Physics. Also, at the Carbon War Room. Universities are warming up to the idea of including LENR in the curriculum and many have LENR research programs.

        Here is the current article at the Quantum Physics group.
        “Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson and LENR Pathological Disbelief”

        https://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=1892648&type=member&item=5962404713826631683&trk=groups_most_recent-0-b-ttl&goback=%2Egmr_1892648

  • greggoble

    Sounds a bit like that fella Rossi, “The market will decide… “. That’s just wonderful!!
    “Power plant production in the UK is market driven.” A proper British way of showing approval of his strategy. Full of hidden meaning. Just kidding bloke.

    If LENR technology was to be proven (by the way it is) and mass produced (M5 workin’ on it chaps) and was capable of providing electricity at a cost (including any environmental impacts [say none did you]) competitive with conventional elecricity generating technologies (sell slick) then it is likely there would be uptake of LENR electricity generation in the UK (bloody right). Power plant production in the UK is market driven. (change of horses) It is the job of the generating industry to decide what types of plants (1st investors) to build and the job of the government to ensure that their choices are suitably safe (the death knell, nothing to be done… well govt. and industry got-t-get on with our jobs now, tally ho)

    Let them eat cake…

    • BroKeeper

      Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

  • greggoble

    Sounds a bit like that fella Rossi, “The market will decide… “. That’s just wonderful!!
    “Power plant production in the UK is market driven.” A proper British way of showing approval of Rossi’s strategy no doubt. Full of hidden meaning. Just kidding bloke.

    If LENR technology was to be proven (confidentially… it is) and mass produced (M5 workin’ on it chaps) and was capable of providing electricity at a cost (including any environmental impacts [say none did you]) competitive with conventional electricity generating technologies (sell slick) then it is likely there would be uptake of LENR electricity generation in the UK (bloody right). Power plant production in the UK is market driven. (change the horses) It is the job of the generating industry to decide what types of plants (1st investors) to build and the job of the government to ensure that their choices are suitably safe (the death knell of B.P n Tokamak… stiff upper lip and all that, nothing to be done… well govt. and industry got-t-get on with it now, tally ho guv’nor) Let ’em eat cake… in due time…

    The race to cold fusion energy is on and everyone in it is extremly busy,
    in many different ways.

    Extremely
    An extreme list of synonyms.

    Consider one, parlous, and its’ Middle English heritage.
    PARLOUS 1350-1400; Middle English, variant of perlous (obsolete)
    Adjective: clever; shrewd. Adverb: to a large extent; greatly.

    Synonyms for Extremely
    to nth degree, acutely, awfully, parlous, exceedingly, exceptionally, excessively, extraordinarily, highly, hugely, immensely, inordinately, intensely, overly, quite, remarkably, severely, strikingly, terribly, terrifically, too, totally, uncommonly, unduly, unusually, utterly, very, almighty, drastically, exorbitantly, immoderately, markedly, mortally, notably, over, overmuch, plenty, powerful, prohibitively, radically, rarely, surpassingly, too much, ultra, violently, vitally

    • Brokeeper

      Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

  • greggoble

    Disclosure eventually happens… in fact it’s been happening over the past two years.

  • fritz194

    There is nuclear industry in UK.
    There is no LENR industry in UK.
    The market will decide – as long as the kickbacks are acceptible.
    On one side an industrial complex with ppp funding and research – on the other side a mysterious heat effect –
    It´s amazing that there was an answer from DECC.

    • greggoble

      Rolls Royce at CCAM in Vermont

      • Sean

        Interesting CCAM. Perhaps Alan Bond at reaction engines should be informed about LENR also http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/

        • GreenWin

          So hard to give up combustion.

    • Fortyniner

      The second paragraph is almost identical to the reply I received from DECC 18 months ago. The third is similar but has moved on microscopically.

      As far as nuclear fission goes:- “My mind is made up – please don’t confuse me with the facts” (especially if this will upset any of my pals).

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Has this been brought to the attention of the Secretary of Circadian Rhythms?

    • correction:
      there is not yet LENR industry in UK.
      there is surely already candidates… they will do the job to convince politicians.

  • fritz194

    There is nuclear industry in UK.
    There is no LENR industry in UK.
    The market will decide – as long as the kickbacks are acceptible.
    On one side an industrial complex with ppp funding and research – on the other side a mysterious heat effect –
    It´s amazing that there was an answer from DECC.

    • greggoble

      Rolls Royce at CCAM in Vermont

      • Sean

        Interesting CCAM. Perhaps Alan Bond at reaction engines should be informed about LENR also http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/

        • GreenWin

          So hard to give up combustion.

    • The second paragraph is almost identical to the reply I received from DECC 18 months ago. The third is similar but has moved on microscopically.

      As far as nuclear fission goes:- “My mind is made up – please don’t confuse me with the facts” (especially if this will upset any of my pals).

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Has this been brought to the attention of the Secretary of Circadian Rhythms?

    • correction:
      there is not yet LENR industry in UK.
      there is surely already candidates… they will do the job to convince politicians.

  • Omega Z

    OK, Many times I make posts that attempt to tamp down expectations.

    Like Heating all the roads & highways.Theoretically possible, tho realistically unobtainable for many reasons.

    E-cat powered cars. At least 20 years out. The technology just isn’t there & no matter how you crunch the numbers, It doesn’t work. Note that I also find battery powered vehicles questionable in it’s present technological state.

    However, The E-cat tho a long way from a fully mature technology, Is fast approaching a maturity level where it can be used for fixed location heat & soon to follow electricity generation(A Couple years).

    As to the DECC response, This is at least the 2nd I’m aware of from them & Maybe the 3rd. It provides enough detail that we know that they are at least aware of LENR & probably watching more closely then we imagine. In fact, anyone paying attention knows there are “MANY” Countries watching closely.

    It indicates the situation will or could change if/when it is peer reviewed by those in Mainstream Science with what appears to be a caveat, or If/When mass produced.

    Well, Were back to:The Market will decide because until then, MS Science isn’t going to except it.

    Sooo, If at the end of a year, If Rossi/Industrial Heats pilot plant proves viable, additional plants will be produced. DECC will start funding research to better understand LENR.

    To Late, Because at that point, Industry will be pumping billions into research, development and marketing. It will be the Scientists employed by Industry or contracted by them in Universities that will lead the way. They will progress far faster then any Government funded research.

    One thing that has been posted many times by many people that I agree with 100%. If just 1 Country has LENR, All others will jump on board or fall to their own peril.

    • BroKeeper

      Agreed, it will need only one domino to move the rest.

    • bachcole

      It was quite some time between the discovery of fire to the development of oils/alcohols that could be used in an internal combustion engine. It was a long time between the development of these oils/alcohols and the invention of the very first internal combustion engine (December 31, 1878). It was almost 10 years later (5 August 1888) that Bertha Benz took the very first road trip, but said road trip was far from being anything more a bold and clever PR stunt. It wasn’t until October 1, 1908 (20 years after the very first road trip) that the very first serious car for the masses was produced by Henry Ford.

      I expect things to move much faster than that, especially when LENR+ becomes widely recognized. But it will still take time.

      • Obvious

        In 1960 almost nobody had a pocket calculator. By 1975, almost everyone who wanted one could have one. In the ’80s you could have one on your wrist, and look cool. Now it is an add-on to a phone or GPS, almost an afterthought.
        Consider the difference in interest in reverse-engineering the calculator over that time span.

  • Omega Z

    OK, Many times I make posts that attempt to tamp down expectations.

    Like Heating all the roads & highways.Theoretically possible, tho realistically unobtainable for many reasons.

    E-cat powered cars. At least 20 years out. The technology just isn’t there & no matter how you crunch the numbers, It doesn’t work. Note that I also find battery powered vehicles questionable in it’s present technological state.

    However, The E-cat tho a long way from a fully mature technology, Is fast approaching a maturity level where it can be used for fixed location heat & soon to follow electricity generation(A Couple years).

    As to the DECC response, This is at least the 2nd I’m aware of from them & Maybe the 3rd. It provides enough detail that we know that they are at least aware of LENR & probably watching more closely then we imagine. In fact, anyone paying attention knows there are “MANY” Countries watching closely.

    It indicates the situation will or could change if/when it is peer reviewed by those in Mainstream Science with what appears to be a caveat, or If/When mass produced.

    Well, Were back to:The Market will decide because until then, MS Science isn’t going to except it.

    Sooo, If at the end of a year, If Rossi/Industrial Heats pilot plant proves viable, additional plants will be produced. DECC will start funding research to better understand LENR.

    To Late, Because at that point, Industry will be pumping billions into research, development and marketing. It will be the Scientists employed by Industry or contracted by them in Universities that will lead the way. They will progress far faster then any Government funded research.

    One thing that has been posted many times by many people that I agree with 100%. If just 1 Country has LENR, All others will jump on board or fall to their own peril.

    • Brokeeper

      Agreed, it will need only one domino to move the rest.

    • bachcole

      It was quite some time between the discovery of fire to the development of oils/alcohols that could be used in an internal combustion engine. It was a long time between the development of these oils/alcohols and the invention of the very first internal combustion engine (December 31, 1878). It was almost 10 years later (5 August 1888) that Bertha Benz took the very first road trip, but said road trip was far from being anything more a bold and clever PR stunt. It wasn’t until October 1, 1908 (20 years after the very first road trip) that the very first serious car for the masses was produced by Henry Ford.

      I expect things to move much faster than that, especially when LENR+ becomes widely recognized. But it will still take time.

      • Obvious

        In 1960 almost nobody had a pocket calculator. By 1975, almost everyone who wanted one could have one. In the ’80s you could have one on your wrist, and look cool. Now it is an add-on to a phone or GPS, almost an afterthought.
        Consider the difference in interest in reverse-engineering the calculator over that time span.

        • bachcole

          I still have one of those wrist calculator-watches, thank you very much, and I feel naked without it, and it serves me well. However, should the new, more modern watches come down in price, and have a version that has NO mobile phone connection, but does have GPS, games, etc., then I will upgrade.

          But your point is good. Old fire to automobile took 300,000 years. Calculator to my watch-calculator took 25 years. New fire to LENR-car should be about 20 years.

  • Aphantee

    Total bureaucratic nonsense.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    If you can do the following we might look into it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y6hZAK-8aY
    PS
    I think Rossi has.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    If you can do the following we might look into it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y6hZAK-8aY
    PS
    I think Rossi has.

  • GreenWin

    The climate gang remains opposed to a clean, green, abundant source of energy because it would eliminate their cash cow. Climate relies on fear to control energy politics and raise $billions to finance their clique. A zero-carbon solution is as terrifying to climate as a cure for the common cold is to pharma.

  • GreenWin

    The climate gang remains opposed to a clean, green, abundant source of energy because it would eliminate their cash cow. Climate relies on fear to control energy politics and raise $billions to finance their clique. A zero-carbon solution is as terrifying to climate as a cure for the common cold is to pharma.

    • bachcole

      I don’t think that the climate gang is opposed to LENR, YET. But they will be, for sure, for exactly the reasons that you mentioned. And then they will see their base slowly disappear.

      There is already an effective prevention for the common cold. I take at least 6 grams of vitamin C every day through out the day and I have not been sick for years. But you have to do it all of the time. Taking it just when you get a cold is a little late. 6 grams is about the amount that animals who don’t need to eat vitamin C make in their own bodies, prorated for the average size of a human being. This is also excellent for your heart. My resting pulse a few days ago was 55.

      What happens with scurvy is what happens to the very high pressure arteries in, on, and around the heart. They develop little nicks. As a back up (because we were too stupid or unable to take enough vitamin C), the body uses cholesterol as a back-up to patch the nicks. Some cholesterol build-up on the arteries is better than an artery bursting, which is like sudden death.

      http://www.yourdoctorisaliar.com/

      • GreenWin

        Thanks for the vitamin C reminder Roger. Foolishly accepted a flu shot this Fall and got the flu worse than ever. Does anyone in flu immunology know WTF they’re doing?

        • bachcole

          Perhaps they have developed a siege mentality and are avoiding knowing about cases like yours.

        • http://www.naturalnews.com/047890_flu_vaccines_CDC_apology_medical_fraud.html

          GW – some further interesting links in the article.

          • bachcole

            In a very cleaned up version of the theory, vaccinations should be good and effective. But there is so much other garbage in the vaccinations that people are being wrecked because of them. And notice that when a person gets cowpox naturally, it is not injected directly into their blood stream rather than going through the usual route.

            Almost everything wrong with vaccinations screams of a failure to think it through. For example, just because xyz causes abc does not mean that xyz do not do a lot of other nasty things. But these nasty things were not intended, were not expected, do not pay the bills, and were seen only in a small number of people; so everything must be wonderful.

    • Alan DeAngelis
      • GreenWin

        What? Convicted CEO Ken Lay was behind climate scam funding?
        “I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!” Captain Renault, Casablanca, 1941

  • GreenWin

    Thanks for the vitamin C reminder Roger. Foolishly accepted a flu shot this Fall and got the flu worse than ever. Does anyone in flu immunology know WTF they’re doing?