What Chance does Rossi and his Backers Have Against Entrenched Conglomerates? (Surveiltz)

This comment was originally posted by Surveiltz on this thread

Since the first day after Mr. Rossi went public, I have been following his progress with the e-cat. This is the first time I comment and welcome speculation on what I’m about to say…

Mr. Rossi seems concerned with mass production in order to achieve economies of scale that would discourage industrial theft. His strategies are no doubt valid as we have seen entire companies, from fake products to fake headquarters, copied ad nausea. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen him address what, from my perspective, constitutes a much larger existential threat, that is, entrench ed energy conglomerates. Namely nuclear, coal, gas and hydro electric utilities which are often government owned and operated, fossil fuels and the giganormous tax revenues governments leech off them and, as time goes by, the foothold solar and wind industries are gaining.

The reason I bring this up is because here, in North America, we have seen first hand the extent of corruption and downright nasty business practices disruptive technologies can bring out of entrenched oligopolies. I’m referring, of course, to the entertainment industry. From the successful lobbying of repressive laws to filing lawsuits against individual consumers, there is no end or bottom to their shameful behavior. All this and they represent a mere fraction of the GDP the energy sector represents.

What chance does Rossi and his backers have against such powerful, global business interests and the governments they’ve pocketed? I hate to sound pessimistic, but really, all I can see is Rossi’s discovery being marred in endless anti-competitive regulatory bureaucracy. I can also see the environment taking a swift back seat if all these people are suddenly faced with such a disruptive threat. So, anyone care to speculate on reasons why this wouldn’t be the case?

  • Par

    The good thing is if for example India or China will work with and help LENR to the market, the others will have a hard if they want to stop LENR to reach there market.

    • suhas R

      I cannot comment about china but nobody should worry about Indian lenr
      in India we follow the west philosophy so no worries of Indian LENR ever coming to market as U expect
      We will do what the corporates want and same the Govt want ie import of junk chinese solar and build some more Nuk power reactors or import more oil and gas
      and not what will help the people

      • bachcole

        This is just silly left wing paranoia. Energy company EMPLOYEES will be breaking rank if energy companies try to stop LENR.

        • Alain Samoun

          “EMPLOYEES will be breaking rank”
          Gee! Bachcole are you a commie? 😉

          • bachcole

            I appreciate your affectionate kidding.

            I understand human beings, and I know that I would not put up with my company (if I had one) torturing puppies and trying to suppress cold fusion.

          • Observer

            Cuteness is a survival strategy. That is why we breed hairless rats for medical studies.

          • bachcole

            I am reconciled with the reality that our so-called material world is completely dualistic, and that there are always two perfectly “real” interpretations to everything in the material world: in this case the evolutionary (which I adhere to) and the spiritual (which I adhere to ever so slightly more). Puppies also broadcast divine light, as do the babies of all warm blooded creatures, especially human beings. The wonderfulness that we see in a baby is not just a survival strategy, it is also just plain wonderful.

          • Observer

            No Mystery. Babies and puppies view an unknown world with eyes full of wonder. Thus, they are wonderful. We all long for the purity of that optimistic anticipation of discovery.

        • my impression is that the problem will came from teh employees who will oppose the changing of energy mix, to save the grid…

          add to that the roof workers defending solar panel
          the wind turbine builders and their workers
          the house builders defending home insulation subsidies

          the workers if there is a LENR revolution will close ranks against LENR.
          those that bill go berserk are the energy poors and the LENR workers.

  • Par

    The good thing is if for example India or China will work with and help LENR to the market, the others will have a hard if they want to stop LENR to reach there market.

    • suhas R

      I cannot comment about china but nobody should worry about Indian lenr
      in India we follow the west philosophy so no worries of Indian LENR ever coming to market as U expect
      We will do what the corporates want and same the Govt want ie import of junk chinese solar and build some more Nuk power reactors or import more oil and gas
      and not what will help the people

      • bachcole

        This is just silly left wing paranoia. Energy company EMPLOYEES will be breaking rank if energy companies try to stop LENR.

        • Alain Samoun

          “EMPLOYEES will be breaking rank”
          Gee! Bachcole are you a commie? 😉

          • bachcole

            I appreciate your affectionate kidding.

            I understand human beings, and I know that I would not put up with my company (if I had one) torturing puppies and trying to suppress cold fusion.

          • Observer

            Cuteness is a survival strategy. That is why we breed hairless rats for medical studies.

          • bachcole

            I am reconciled with the reality that our so-called material world is completely dualistic, and that there are always two perfectly “real” interpretations to everything in the material world: in this case the evolutionary (which I adhere to) and the spiritual (which I adhere to ever so slightly more). Puppies also broadcast divine light, as do the babies of all warm blooded creatures, especially human beings. The wonderfulness that we see in a baby is not just a survival strategy, it is also just plain wonderful.

          • Observer

            No Mystery. Babies and puppies view an unknown world with eyes full of wonder. Thus, they are wonderful. We all long for the purity of that optimistic anticipation of discovery.

          • bachcole

            So, why do we love them so much?

            For every evolutionary explanation that you come up with (and which I do NOT oppose but rather agree with), I can come up with a spiritual explanation. And I take both the evolutionary and the spiritual explanations to be true.

          • Observer

            When you love hairless rats as much as puppies and babies, then you have achieved spirituality.

          • bachcole

            Funny.

            But, seriously, you are right, sort of. And I do love hairless rats and am not all that crazy about using animals to test products. It is reductionistic science that needs lab animals to test stuff, and I just ain’t that crazy about reductionism when it comes to human health. It is just great when making stripped toothpaste and atomic bombs.

            Also, for me, “achieving spirituality” is a very long way off. I’ll be happy to just be oriented towards spirituality and take the first couple of steps. I always seem to stumble when a beautiful woman carrying a bag full of money in one hand and a chocolate cake in the other hand walks by. (:->)

          • Observer

            I love hairless rats for their sacrifice (willing or not). Remember, suffering may be not a reason not to exist, but for many animals we breed into existence, their suffering is the reason they exist. We should acknowledge their existence and love them for their sacrifice.

          • bachcole

            I like you for your sense of humor. I salute your intrinsic worth, even when you are being a goof.

        • my impression is that the problem will came from teh employees who will oppose the changing of energy mix, to save the grid…

          add to that the roof workers defending solar panel
          the wind turbine builders and their workers
          the house builders defending home insulation subsidies

          the workers if there is a LENR revolution will close ranks against LENR.
          those that bill go berserk are the energy poors and the LENR workers.

          • bachcole

            All of these people trying to oppose destiny is just fantasy so far. Every person can fantasize whatever they want on that blank slate.

  • Anon

    He has China.

  • John

    Andrea Rossi is the man ! Humanity must recognize this name for ever ! Parkhomov just managed to demystify the effect proclaimed by Andrea Rossi. At the end of the day there is no bizarre combination of components in the experiment replication. At this very moment, dozens of researchers are already reproducing the effect in their laboratories. New compositions will arrive in the cloud and is coming very soon the sale of small construction kits being sold in internet. After the second hit wave (the sale of these kits), thousands of products will be developed, the first will be for heating, then for transportation and other purposes. Since there is no radiation emission this technology is unstoppable (your wi-fi network is more dangerous than LENR).. No power will be able to control it, the technology will be viral in very few months or even days. I think that before the end of 2015 many researchers come to the conclusion that this technology existed 30 years ago, was hidden from us all for the great world powers, the fact that these powers know that is soon the day when their masks are about to drop a huge stampede will take place in the energy sector, by now the most apparent thing is the fall in oil prices, but day is coming when all economies will see surprising effects, on the countries and groups that controlled these sectors, for so many years. Welcome to a new world, welcome to potable water, food, communication, transportation, welcome to asteroid fishing, welcome to Lunar bases, welcome to energy available to all people of this world

    • bachcole

      I see the spread as you do, John. It is unstoppable. I don’t see that the meanie head corporations were hiding anything from us. That is just silly left wing conspiratorial paranoia. If they did, then some one individual in 30 years would have broken ranks; nobody did.

      • NT

        NASA hid or somehow forgot about their successful P & F replications for many years, but they are not a private corporation…

        • bachcole

          That sort of proves that money is not the only cause of the problem. MSRAS (Middle School Rejection Avoidance Syndrome) or what AlainCo calls groupthink is also part of the problem. People don’t want to be ridiculed. Too bad for them. They could have been heroes. Instead they are bums.

        • the story of NASA is not so nasty

          http://www.lenr-forum.com/old-forum-static/t-426.html

          in fact Fralick have found heat in 89 but since there was no neutrons they were not convinced.

          it is when it was replicated in 2005 and 2007 by Chinese team and Biberian, that Nasa GRC replicated.

          they also have done classic Miles cell experiments

          http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf

          today they let basic research to others and focus on LENr Plane and LENR space ships.

  • parallelB

    There are several ways implementation of E-Cat technology can be slowed. The patent situation is a real mess and deep pockets can tie things up in court for years. As far as I can see Rossi’s patent protection is poor.
    Some conglomerate or government can arrange to have a domestic version explode and try and regulate them out of existence as too dangerous. Think how long it takes for regulatory approval for nuclear technology. They can “study” it for years.
    There are probably other ways too but with Industrial Heat’s Chinese contacts and the need China has to do something about their pollution I can’t see it being stopped there. Once they are in wide operation there is will be very difficult to stop it being transferred to the West. India seems keen on advancing the process too.
    I suppose Industrial Heat could do a deal with one conglomerate too. They are all eager to get a leg up over their rivals. I don’t see it being stopped for long.

    • bachcole

      Thomas Edison tried to do that sort of thing (blowing up E-Cats) with alternating current. It didn’t work very well. With the Internet, it is less likely to work today. But it is certainly possible that some jackass might try. Like I said elsewhere, there is just too much freedom and too much communication going around for anything like this to work. My son knows about important local news days before the newspapers gets a hold of it, thanks to the cellphone network.

    • Gerard McEk

      I do not think that Rossi’s/IH patents on the Ecat are poor anymore. A Parkhomov has proven as a totally independent entity that it works. Ik believe that should boost the acceptance of the patents, otherwise they can sue the Pantent office!

      • parallelB

        Gerard,
        There were several reasons for my comment. The only visible patents from Rossi leave out the “secrets”. He wasn’t the first to use Ni/H2 Piantelli was and he has a patent for that.
        There are a lot more patent applications than are visible because the patent office has this policy of giving Cold Fusion special treatment and then denying them. Thanks to intervention by DOE.
        So the patent situation is a real mess. Presumably Industrial Heat has applied for some better ones, but nothing is known of them. As for suing the patent office…”lots of luck.”

  • AdrianAshfield

    There are several ways implementation of E-Cat technology can be slowed. The patent situation is a real mess and deep pockets can tie things up in court for years. As far as I can see Rossi’s patent protection is poor.
    Some conglomerate or government can arrange to have a domestic version explode and try and regulate them out of existence as too dangerous. Think how long it takes for regulatory approval for nuclear technology. They can “study” it for years.
    There are probably other ways too but with Industrial Heat’s Chinese contacts and the need China has to do something about their pollution I can’t see it being stopped there. Once they are in wide operation there is will be very difficult to stop it being transferred to the West. India seems keen on advancing the process too.
    I suppose Industrial Heat could do a deal with one conglomerate too. They are all eager to get a leg up over their rivals. I don’t see it being stopped for long.

    • bachcole

      Thomas Edison tried to do that sort of thing (blowing up E-Cats) with alternating current. It didn’t work very well. With the Internet, it is less likely to work today. But it is certainly possible that some jackass might try. Like I said elsewhere, there is just too much freedom and too much communication going around for anything like this to work. My son knows about important local news days before the newspapers gets a hold of it, thanks to the cellphone network.

    • Gerard McEk

      I do not think that Rossi’s/IH patents on the Ecat are poor anymore. A Parkhomov has proven as a totally independent entity that it works. Ik believe that should boost the acceptance of the patents, otherwise they can sue the Pantent office!

      • AdrianAshfield

        Gerard,
        There were several reasons for my comment. The only visible patents from Rossi leave out the “secrets”. He wasn’t the first to use Ni/H2 Piantelli was and he has a patent for that.
        There are a lot more patent applications than are visible because the patent office has this policy of giving Cold Fusion special treatment and then denying them. Thanks to intervention by DOE.
        So the patent situation is a real mess. Presumably Industrial Heat has applied for some better ones, but nothing is known of them. As for suing the patent office…”lots of luck.”

  • The question you ask is a key to the LENr spread.
    LENR is disruptive, not only as a thechnology, but to the business model of many actors.
    It is disruptive for companies whose work is to prospect, extract, transport, deliver fuel, to those who manage grids and centralized power plants…

    the key to spreading a technology can be understood with the success of Web. Web is HTML+HTTP+A/HREF+CGI …
    it is a shared language that anybody can use, a common protocol that anybody can respect, a way to integrate respectfully the work of others in your own work, and finally a tool that allow you to use you own specific tools and IT assets.

    the key si that people entered the Web revolution because they have a selfish interest, and they created value by integrating work of others (through HTML links) because both sides were happy of it.
    they accepted to respect HTML and HTTP because the CGI was not forcing them to change their tools, they computer language, their operating system…

    when you try to launch a disruptive technology, you have to convince the incumbent operators that it is their interest to embrace your new technological ecosystem (call it the grid, android, web, car industry).
    If your proposal means that incumbent operators will die, they will resist.
    If you don’t offer them a chance, they will die, but will cover you with blood and mud while dying.

    this is the key idea of LENR cities, to propose something that will give value to newcomers, by integrating your value with the value of others, respecting your legacy practice…
    One key idea is that incumbent operators will be able to make value from the revolution, not by opposing it, but by embracing it…

    Rossi/darden will have to find a similar proposal toward other business.
    this is why you hear him says “all energy have to be integrated”… he is just saying “don’t be afraid, you have a place in my revolution”.

    the good news is that some big actors (corp, govt) are entering the domain, which gives value to the act to join the group.

    in a way embracing LENR is like bathing nude in a pool.
    If you are alone you lose much. but if you know that many influential people are removing their clothes, you can prepare to follow them.
    and finally it is the one with a bathsuit who will look weird.

  • The question you ask is a key to the LENr spread.
    LENR is disruptive, not only as a thechnology, but to the business model of many actors.
    It is disruptive for companies whose work is to prospect, extract, transport, deliver fuel, to those who manage grids and centralized power plants…

    the key to spreading a technology can be understood with the success of Web. Web is HTML+HTTP+A/HREF+CGI …
    it is a shared language that anybody can use, a common protocol that anybody can respect, a way to integrate respectfully the work of others in your own work, and finally a tool that allow you to use you own specific tools and IT assets.

    the key si that people entered the Web revolution because they have a selfish interest, and they created value by integrating work of others (through HTML links) because both sides were happy of it.
    they accepted to respect HTML and HTTP because the CGI was not forcing them to change their tools, they computer language, their operating system…

    when you try to launch a disruptive technology, you have to convince the incumbent operators that it is their interest to embrace your new technological ecosystem (call it the grid, android, web, car industry).
    If your proposal means that incumbent operators will die, they will resist.
    If you don’t offer them a chance, they will die, but will cover you with blood and mud while dying.

    this is the key idea of LENR cities, to propose something that will give value to newcomers, by integrating your value with the value of others, respecting your legacy practice…
    One key idea is that incumbent operators will be able to make value from the revolution, not by opposing it, but by embracing it…

    Rossi/darden will have to find a similar proposal toward other business.
    this is why you hear him says “all energy have to be integrated”… he is just saying “don’t be afraid, you have a place in my revolution”.

    the good news is that some big actors (corp, govt) are entering the domain, which gives value to the act to join the group.

    in a way embracing LENR is like bathing nude in a pool.
    If you are alone you lose much. but if you know that many influential people are removing their clothes, you can prepare to follow them.
    and finally it is the one with a bathsuit who will look weird.

  • MasterBlaster7

    You know I abhor the idea of raising gory specter of Star Wars episode 1: The Phantom Menace…but…”there is always a bigger fish”. Said fish being China. Said fish will gobble up big oil, big coal, and big nuclear.

    Ooo…I got another one….”only Rossi could go to China.”

    Its the true lynch pen. If you want to talk big money, I think of the recent collapse of oil. We have known than oil has been too high for like 13-14 years right? And we ask the questions…what the hell is propping this up?…what the hell needs to happen for oil to drop? I kept getting answers like “ohhh it is sooo complex and there are like 5 different rotating variables that keep oil up.”….Then BAM! Saudi Arabia waves its scepter.

    Well…..China has a bigger scepter regarding cheap energy.

  • bachcole

    The fear that the energy companies might try to shut Rossi down I think is unwarranted. They know that there is just too much freedom and too much Internet. They might and perhaps in some cases try to slow things down, but they know (or will know) that they can’t stop it. Given the fact that the human race is desperate for a solution, any efforts on their part to stop LENR will prove to be disastrous for them. They won’t have much of a business if EVERYONE decides to boycott them. In fact, this might be something that we the peanut gallery might want to keep an eye on.

    The solidarity that we saw with the entertainment industry shutting down piracy is because NO ONE thinks that theft is acceptable, and I am in solidarity with them. With the Rossi/LENR+ situation, EVERYONE thinks that Rossi has a perfect right to develop and sell his product. I am at a loss why this difference isn’t obvious to everyone. Furthermore, Rossi is trying to steal customers, not product. Some people have figured out that they can steal product from the energy companies if they put up large antennas close to high voltage overhead power lines. The energy companies shut them down, and the energy companies should have shut them down. That was theft of product.

  • Zizzle

    I would add my thoughts, but others have already posted much of them. The potential of LENR means that SOMEBODY will adopt it. Once commerce-ready technology is on sale, whoever adopts it will perform de facto safety testing by regular use. If the US wants to supress it, they can only succeed stateside. Furthermore, I believe there are enough intelligent powerful people who will defend the need to adopt LENR ASAP, because they understand the magnitude of the blunder if they don’t.

    This may well be the push that turns China into the world’s next supreme superpower.

    • bachcole

      I don’t see China becoming a superpower. First, China has had 5000 years to express themselves with an aggressive foreign policy, and except for very iffy exceptions like Tibet, they have not done so. Second, with the advent of LENR++, there is much less reason why any nation would WANT to express an aggressive foreign policy. It is true that China is currently showing aggressive tendencies (without actually being a bully, yet) in the oil “fields” in the South China Sea, but that will obviously go away.

      • oaklandthinktank

        China is the empirial boundary corraling 52 ethnicities… It exists because of an aggressive foreign policy, from Shang Yang onward. Ask vietnam, korea, or mongolia if china has had an aggressive foreign policy.

        • Alain Samoun

          For nations, the reason of aggressive behavior is mainly for securing the sources of energy (including food). With CF hopefully this reason will disappear…

          • Observer

            The reason for conflict is us-against-them-ism.
            Define us. Define them. Dehumanize them. Kill them. Repeat.

          • LilyLover

            All under the “Patriotism” flag.
            Patriotism of parasites is simply “selfishness”.
            Patriotism of the host is cowardice-united against common enemy.
            Neither scenario – people coming together for a higher purpose.
            Do not repeat. Let’s change.

          • Observer

            “Us”: Everyone who agrees with you
            “Them”: ” All under the ‘Patriotism’ flag”
            Dehumanization: “Patriotism of parasites”

            If you want change, stop falling into the same old pattern.

  • Zizzle

    I would add my thoughts, but others have already posted much of them. The potential of LENR means that SOMEBODY will adopt it. Once commerce-ready technology is on sale, whoever adopts it will perform de facto safety testing by regular use. If the US wants to supress it, they can only succeed stateside. Furthermore, I believe there are enough intelligent powerful people who will defend the need to adopt LENR ASAP, because they understand the magnitude of the blunder if they don’t.

    This may well be the push that turns China into the world’s next supreme superpower.

    • bachcole

      I don’t see China becoming a superpower. First, China has had 5000 years to express themselves with an aggressive foreign policy, and except for very iffy exceptions like Tibet, they have not done so. Second, with the advent of LENR++, there is much less reason why any nation would WANT to express an aggressive foreign policy. It is true that China is currently showing aggressive tendencies (without actually being a bully, yet) in the oil “fields” in the South China Sea, but that will obviously go away.

      • oaklandthinktank

        China is the empirial boundary corraling 52 ethnicities… It exists because of an aggressive foreign policy, from Shang Yang onward. Ask vietnam, korea, or mongolia if china has had an aggressive foreign policy.

        • Alain Samoun

          For nations, the reason of aggressive behavior is mainly for securing the sources of energy (including food). With CF hopefully this reason will disappear…

          • Observer

            The reason for conflict is us-against-them-ism.
            Define us. Define them. Dehumanize them. Kill them. Repeat.

          • bachcole

            You are simply looking at conflict at a deeper (and therefore better) level. I doubt if Progressives deal with life at that level.

          • LilyLover

            All under the “Patriotism” flag.
            Patriotism of parasites is simply “selfishness”.
            Patriotism of the host is cowardice-united against common enemy.
            Neither scenario – people coming together for a higher purpose.
            Do not repeat. Let’s change.

          • bachcole

            I am not trying to be offensive in your face, just trying to fathom your mind on this issue. What did you feel when you say innocent people falling from the Twin Towers on September 11th, 2001?

            I did not feel exactly patriotism, since I felt solidarity with ALL decent people. But I DID feel solidarity with all decent people, and I knew that my country was going to lead the fight against these demonic scum-bags.

          • LilyLover

            I was more like – Oh, demolition job scientifically-well done! Why did they choose to forget to inform the people to evacuate? Say, like hurricanes or “snow”? What I felt was – sorry for the people and their suffering relatives.
            But then again one parasite attacking another parasite’s relatives is not really a win-win scenario. Just like murdering innocents for the sins of their “Leaders”. Heart always goes out for the innocents.

            The host – the common people are a perennial tragedy. Who must work and feed the parasites for they bring the pseudo sense of security only to be matched and exceeded by the other parasite – for the other parasite needs to appear to be working just like our parasite.

            Of course my opinion on this matter is scientific, which is not permitted to exist officially. Because MUST pretend as if over the last 200 years we have learned nothing from the strength of materials. It’s not a science – it’s just a magic voodoo. Therefore what TV tells us must be true.

            I also feel anger – as in – people – at least now – WAKE UP!!

          • Observer

            “Us”: Everyone who agrees with you
            “Them”: ” All under the ‘Patriotism’ flag”
            Dehumanization: “Patriotism of parasites”

            If you want change, stop falling into the same old pattern.

  • Lingo

    Why not ask yourselves:

    “What chance does Entrenched Conglomerates with inferior technology have against Entrenched Conglomerates with superior Technology”.

    The answer seems rather obvious to me!

    Meanwhile –

    Some more news from Moskva:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04OUv9s7DNw

  • Publius

    I think we can all relax a little. LENR does have the potential to be instantly disruptive, but this is not likely. The Internet was instantly disruptive, but it still took time to reach a broad audience. Funk & Wagnalls did not instantly disappear – rather this information and encyclopedia publisher tried to adapt and was pushed out of the market over several years. The same will happen here. Once LENR is understood, controlled and made commercially useful, it will be adopted and some businesses will flourish and some will fail based on it.

  • Jonnyb

    I agree almost entirely with your concerns. If I was the big boys I would just make them an offer they can’t refuse, 10’s of Billions of $ should do the trick, to buy the main patents, then business as normal. Or control the raw materials then they have to pay the price you want, like Diamonds, Oil etc. Pretty bleak. Like I have said before, oil is relatively cheap, it is the tax, price manipulation etc. that make us all pay through the nose, I can’t see why L.E.N.R. will end up any different? time will tell.

  • Jonnyb

    I agree almost entirely with your concerns. If I was the big boys I would just make them an offer they can’t refuse, 10’s of Billions of $ should do the trick, to buy the main patents, then business as normal. Or control the raw materials then they have to pay the price you want, like Diamonds, Oil etc. Pretty bleak. Like I have said before, oil is relatively cheap, it is the tax, price manipulation etc. that make us all pay through the nose, I can’t see why L.E.N.R. will end up any different? time will tell.

    • bachcole

      This assumes that even determined people can always be bought off.

    • Christina

      Andrea Rossi has said that his dream is to help the Third World.

      No one can Cbuy that.

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe in the US that will be tried, infact, no doubt it will be tried in the US, but not at many other places in the world it will happen in that way. LENR will take off. Unstoppable. All repel against it is futile. You cannot buy it off anymore, the gost is out of the bottle. If something or sombody or some group tries to frustrate its development then you will see that numerous individuals will start to do it themself.
    NO, LENR/CF WILL COME.

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe in the US that will be tried, infact, no doubt it will be tried in the US, but not at many other places in the world it will happen in that way. LENR will take off. Unstoppable. All repel against it is futile. You cannot buy it off anymore, the gost is out of the bottle. If something or sombody or some group tries to frustrate its development then you will see that numerous individuals will start to do it themself.
    NO, LENR/CF WILL COME.

  • builditnow

    It’s a battle of the titans. On one side is existing industry and people who are threatened by LENR. On the other is the huge opportunity LENR brings, the need to fix pollution, energy for all, space exploration / living in space, flying cars and a lot more.

    So far those threatened have kept LENR under wraps for 26 years. They kept it under wraps so far after the release of the Lugano report in October last year. Industrial Heat is enjoying the delay, it’s giving them a better chance at being the dominant player. Industrial Heat is behaving like they would like a couple more years to be very ready for a mass market release. Time to refine their products.

    On the other side, pollution issues and the threat of a global weather disaster is getting more prominent. Obama is getting some kind of agreement on carbon emissions. Several countries, corporations and individuals are aware that LENR is real. Countries dependent on oil imports will have a hard time ignoring LENR. There are those who want to do the right thing. The delay gives others time to catch up. The Russians already have a good start. India could get back into the game and catch up. Industrial Heat will need to be prepared to move fast on production at any moment.

    Who will break out first? Nth Korea? …. 🙂 🙂 🙂 LOL

    • bachcole

      “So far those threatened have kept LENR under wraps for 26 years.” That is a big, fat psychotic delusion. It was extremely difficult to reproduce, and those who denied it was possible felt threatened. But they did not wake up one day and decide to suppress something that they believed was real. They simply did not believe that it was true, and their threat protection quashed their curiosity. I don’t see most of them as evil bastards.

      • clovis ray

        Me either ,lol

  • Here’s my thoughts! Fossil fuels are about to become stranded assets which is why they are being sold at any price today and not being held off the market to sustain high prices..Read my post on the sundown fire sale of oil. http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2015/02/01/fossil-fuel-stranded-asset/

  • Here’s my thoughts! Fossil fuels are about to become stranded assets which is why they are being sold at any price today and not being held off the market to sustain high prices..Read my post on the sundown fire sale of oil. http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2015/02/01/fossil-fuel-stranded-asset/

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    http://www.kp.ru/daily/26323.7/3203639/ The Russians seem to think Obama has Rossi’s back working with Chinese to produce E-Cat products in industrial center there. Hopefully it is true. Iv’e written numerous thing to President Obama & John Kerry trying to make them aware of what’s happening with no reply, but I think they are aware. Would be a brilliant move by Obama taking care of KOCH brother Oil Barons GOP funding as well as pressuring Putin to be reasonable with Ukraine, No?

    • Eyedoc

      Can we give him that much credit? If true…this would mark his place in history…above Kennedy, b/c this would be a SUCCESSFUL ‘Bay of Pigs’

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    http://www.kp.ru/daily/26323.7/3203639/ The Russians seem to think Obama has Rossi’s back working with Chinese to produce E-Cat products in industrial center there. Hopefully it is true. Iv’e written numerous times to President Obama & John Kerry trying to make them aware of what’s happening with no reply, but I think they are aware. Would be a brilliant move by Obama taking care of KOCH brother Oil Barons GOP funding as well as pressuring Putin to be reasonable with Ukraine, No?

    • Eyedoc

      Can we give him that much credit? If true…this would mark his place in history…above Kennedy, b/c this would be a SUCCESSFUL ‘Bay of Pigs’

    • bachcole

      Remember the kind of culture and politics that the Russians live in. They still don’t fully appreciate that people can basically do as they please, and we call it freedom, a God-given right. They probably still have to consult with their political authority figures to do an international deal, even if the country is no longer communist.

  • mcloki

    The flip side of this argument is how many industries will take up LENR’s cause. The environmentalists, The green movement, The off griders. The military. Electric car industry. It’ll b a fight, but there’s a hundred years of profit to be made spreading the ‘new Fire” around the world.

  • Sanjeev

    It seems big banks know about cold fusion – Mats Lewan

    http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/02/02/it-seems-big-banks-know-about-cold-fusion/

    • Alain Samoun

      If that is true then CF/LENR will replace fossils/Nuke energies soon. I’m not that confident…

      • mcloki

        soon is relative. And cheap oil would find way to survive.

  • Trial and error exploration,
    which is sometimes like walking through a pitch dark room,
    gradually leads to results,
    which shape theories,
    which in turn corroborate experiments.
    From this cycle of routine, modest toil-experiments, theory,
    more experiments-science finally reveals splendid truths.
    Tadahiko Mizuno.

    The truth is out there and can not be withdrawn.
    The taste is in the mouth, the blood is up.
    If not today then defiantly tomorrow.

  • Richard Hill

    All the commenters so far are assuming that the “Rossi effect” can be industrialised and upscaled to get to a brilliant future. We know that Rossi himself is not finding it that easy. Perhaps the big players like Toyota and others, who have dabbled in the area, know more than the commenters on this blog

    • mcloki

      Too much money to be made from the guy that perfects it. If fortunes can be made by creating white out to fix typewriter mistakes, How much in heating homes in Northern climes. Follow the money.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Unknown unknowns are always possible, but Lugano-Parkhomov experiments don’t seem to have any such factors or components that would make scaling a challenge.

  • Richard Hill

    All the commenters so far are assuming that the “Rossi effect” can be industrialised and upscaled to get to a brilliant future. We know that Rossi himself is not finding it that easy. Perhaps the big players like Toyota and others, who have dabbled in the area, know more than the commenters on this blog

    • mcloki

      Too much money to be made from the guy that perfects it. If fortunes can be made by creating white out to fix typewriter mistakes, How much in heating homes in Northern climes. Follow the money.

      • Gittyup

        I think the biggest threat to Rossi is not established energy companies tryjng to maintain their current business but rather companies that will leap frog Rossi and beat him at his own game.

        I am under the belief that what Rossi has discovered is only brushing the surface of this new area of physics. Rossi himself doesn’t seem to understand what’s going on. As soon as his units start to get sold there will be tons of companies that fire up massive RnD departments and drastically improve the efficiency by possibly orders of magnitude. Another possibility is take the underlying physics and apply in a completely yet unknow way. Example would use the Rossi effect to generate EM fields directly to electricity.

        Rossi is spending huge amount of capital preparing a factory to produce ecat when In two years after their release the ecat could be obsolete.

        Rossi is creating matches that when struck produce Fire. He doesn’t seem to understand why the match lights on fire but doesn’t care as long as his match factory beats everyone to market. Along comes another company after studying the fire of matches and creates lighters. Rossi out of business.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Unknown unknowns are always possible, but Lugano-Parkhomov experiments don’t seem to have any such factors or components that would make scaling a challenge.

  • LENR is Disruptive in the sens that it is destroying the business model of most incumbent, and people don’t embrace something that make them lose money.

    In french I follow actively the blof of Phillippe Silberzah on Effectuation…

    http://philippesilberzahn.com/2015/02/02/innovation-de-rupture-avantage-au-premier-entrant/

    He refers to the famous author Clayton Christensen

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/07/disruptive-genius

    the idea is that LENR innovators will disrupt the markets of companies having established business model.

    Don’t expect Shell, Areva or BP to really compete with Cherokee, Brillouin…
    Like Kodak they will understand that there is a revolution, but they will wait as long as possible with their cash cow. and die.

    Question is about companies like Airbus, Toyota, Mitsubishi…
    Those companies don’t have huge cash cows in energy…
    Toyota and MHI, like Siemens have cash cows that depend on old energies, but they can build new cash cows without killing the old one, not changing much their business model…
    Need to study more

    For companies like Airbus, there is no cash cow endangered, but maybe they will have to open new divisions, because for planes the delay will be long.

    to summarize the model of disruptive innovation will say that the incumbent operators will mostky ignore the disruptors and die.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      simply, energy producing businesses suffer and die, energy users benefit and grow. For example, air traffic increases because of lower oil price, and Airbus gets more orders. The same for car industry, they benefit even if they do nothing about lenr.

      • We have seen that in france with low-cost telco (free telecom)…
        all the industry have to reduce margin, and low return investment, have to invest in new domain…
        but the money that the client claim back is used to make other industry grows, like leisere and restaurants.

        in the same vein, in France lower prive of fresh food allowed people to buy more luxury goods (relative luxury, like electronic devices)

  • LENR is Disruptive in the sens that it is destroying the business model of most incumbent, and people don’t embrace something that make them lose money.

    In french I follow actively the blof of Phillippe Silberzah on Effectuation…

    http://philippesilberzahn.com/2015/02/02/innovation-de-rupture-avantage-au-premier-entrant/

    He refers to the famous author Clayton Christensen

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/07/disruptive-genius

    the idea is that LENR innovators will disrupt the markets of companies having established business model.

    Don’t expect Shell, Areva or BP to really compete with Cherokee, Brillouin…
    Like Kodak they will understand that there is a revolution, but they will wait as long as possible with their cash cow. and die.

    Question is about companies like Airbus, Toyota, Mitsubishi…
    Those companies don’t have huge cash cows in energy…
    Toyota and MHI, like Siemens have cash cows that depend on old energies, but they can build new cash cows without killing the old one, not changing much their business model…
    Need to study more

    For companies like Airbus, there is no cash cow endangered, but maybe they will have to open new divisions, because for planes the delay will be long.

    to summarize the model of disruptive innovation will say that the incumbent operators will mostky ignore the disruptors and die.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      simply, energy producing businesses suffer and die, energy users benefit and grow. For example, air traffic increases because of lower oil price, and Airbus gets more orders. The same for car industry, they benefit even if they do nothing about lenr.

      • We have seen that in france with low-cost telco (free telecom)…
        all the industry have to reduce margin, and low return investment, have to invest in new domain…
        but the money that the client claim back is used to make other industry grows, like leisere and restaurants.

        in the same vein, in France lower prive of fresh food allowed people to buy more luxury goods (relative luxury, like electronic devices)

  • Jonnyb

    Not all can, those who can’t often don’t live long. Also legislation can be used to help control, such as Tax and the things like pollution/contamination. I think Rossi has already encountered this with a past product. Also Rossi does not have 100% control of his product now!

  • Ophelia Rump

    By making this international in scale, the U.S. is forced into a status of competition instead of passive aggression.

  • Ophelia Rump

    By making this international in scale, the U.S. is forced into a status of competition instead of passive aggression.

  • mytakeis

    everything positive has been said previously here, and I gladly embrace. I would add that near free energy will become a necessity should central banking as is now practiced collapse.

  • HS61AF91

    everything positive has been said previously here, and I gladly embrace. I would add that near free energy will become a necessity should central banking as is now practiced collapse.

  • Hi all

    As has been discussed in other threads, and those at Sifferkol and myself have pointed out for a couple of years; there is increasing evidence particularly in the Oil Market that Big Oil and the Merchant Banks have readying them selves for LENR for some time Mats Lewan raised the matter on his web site:
    http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/02/02/it-seems-big-banks-know-about-cold-fusion/

    The idea that conglomerates are some big amorphous blob is not correct they are multiple individuals and corporation coming to a range of conclusions about the business environment they exist in.

    Some are pro LENR others are Anti LENR, you deal with it, that is what being in business is about.

    I worked on a low cost market entrant in a particular field; we wiped out the $4 billion business of the market leader as well as billions of dollars of all the others, and the product came to dominate that particular market. Had they arranged multiple legal blocks to prevent low cost market entrants low cost, of course, all in that industry had lobbied for laws that protected them, that is what established business do but there are always strategies to beat this when you have product that costs a tenth of your competitors and is of far better quality and functionality.

    You just have to spend the time creating a suitable strategy. We did not pick a fight with the major players instead we came at them sideways and we just changed the market, it was far easier. Once we achieved control of a sector of the market outside of their control, we then gave the customer the means to expand it until our version of the market became the dominant form. Other than a few Senatorial pork barrel spends our competitors whole market disappeared in the space of a few years. Ours is now the de facto product in that market, not just in America but around the world.

    Essentially what we did was what the customer wanted.

    Kind Regard walker

    • hey you remind me Michel (he is softer, but the idea of creating a ne market sandbox is the same).

      what you describe remind me the way Uber, Uber Pop is opposed in france…
      It remind me also the way innovators are treated here.

      as long as you are poor, small, and funny, everybody loves you.
      when you start to be midsized and you challenge big guys, they came to see you and say “do business as we do today, at our condition, or was call the minister”…
      the only way to be respected in france is to came with a foreign partner.

    • Eyedoc

      Killer story…can you enlighten the market ?

      • Hi all

        In reply to Eyedoc

        Enlighten which market about what?

        Kind Regards walker

  • Hi all

    As has been discussed in other threads, and those at Sifferkol and myself have pointed out for a couple of years; there is increasing evidence particularly in the Oil Market that Big Oil and the Merchant Banks have been readying them selves for LENR for some time, Mats Lewan raised the matter on his web site today:
    http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/02/02/it-seems-big-banks-know-about-cold-fusion/

    I know from research other major players in the energy sector and other markets are doing the same. A business inevitably hide such strategies as best they can. Most major companies have specialist analysts continually watching the business environment for changes and in many cases have whole departments devoted to watching for such black swans and the opportunities and threats they offer.

    The idea that conglomerates are some big amorphous blob is not correct they are multiple individuals and corporations coming to a range of conclusions about the business environment they exist in.

    Some are pro LENR others are Anti LENR, you deal with it, that is what being in business is about.

    I designed a strategy for our low cost market entrant in a particular field; we wiped out the $4 billion business of the market leader as well as billions of dollars of all the others, and the product came to dominate that particular market. Had they arranged multiple legal blocks to prevent low cost market entrants, of course, all in that industry had lobbied for laws that protected them, that is what established businesses do but there are always strategies to beat this; when you have product that costs a tenth of your competitors and is of far better quality and functionality.

    You just have to spend the time creating a suitable strategy. We did not pick a fight with the major players instead we came at them sideways and we just changed the market, it was far easier. Once we achieved control of a sector of the market outside of their control, we then gave the customer the means to expand it until our version of the market became the dominant form. Other than a few Senatorial pork barrel spends our competitors whole market disappeared in the space of a few years. Ours is now the de facto product in that market, not just in America but around the world.

    Essentially what we did was what the customer wanted.

    Kind Regard walker

    • hey you remind me Michel (he is softer, but the idea of creating a ne market sandbox is the same).

      what you describe remind me the way Uber, Uber Pop is opposed in france…
      It remind me also the way innovators are treated here.

      as long as you are poor, small, and funny, everybody loves you.
      when you start to be midsized and you challenge big guys, they came to see you and say “do business as we do today, at our condition, or was call the minister”…
      the only way to be respected in france is to came with a foreign partner.

    • Eyedoc

      Killer story…can you enlighten the market ? (sorry so late posting, just catching up on news here)

      • Hi all

        In reply to Eyedoc

        Enlighten which market about what?

        Kind Regards walker

  • Jonnyb

    They also control the media, or most of it, getting real paranoid now. Probably more or less the case.

  • Jonnyb

    How do you know I have no evidence. I have experienced the full force of the establishment and media within the last 5 years, and it was a footnote/reference in Levison enquiry. I’m sure if you search you will quickly find many examples, I never want to re-live mine, it was short and fairly obscure, and unimportant, but not to me. It has now made me realise how small and insignificant most of us are. The media and authorities have so much power, in every country, I think this is a fact. Bachcole you seem a bit more moody than normal lately, everything O.K.? Chill a bit, it’s serious but a bit of fun as well.

  • Observer

    Read Rossi’s history. He has first hand knowledge of how morally corrupt institutions get rid of the competition. Most of what people consider his bizarre behavior is actually very well thought out.

  • Warthog

    One simple historical example…..what chance could Bill Gates have against IBM??

    • bachcole

      jonnb, are you reading this?

      • Jonnyb

        I sure am, there is always an exception to the rule. Power bases always wax and wain, like I said before how many Roman businesses are still going? not many, if any.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I always preferred the last 50 year “standard” way of rating companies that Fortune magazine uses. That means you rank by revenue.

      Apple is 15th world wide. HP is 50, and IBM is 71.

      To my knowledge IBM has ALWAYS outranked Microsoft by a WIDE margin.

      Dell was #44 in 2012, and 51 in #2013 before they were personally bought back by Dell and are not longer listed. So even Dell every year has outranked Microsoft by a WIDE margin.

      I should point out that Microsoft NEVER EVER made the top global 100. This year is Microsoft’s BEST year, and they came CLOSE to making the top fortune 100 at 104.

      So IBM is 71 and Microsoft is 104 ranked! So IBM might have missed some opportunism, but EVEN AFTER selling and getting OUT of the PC business, IBM ALWAYS remained ahead of Microsoft, and by a WIDE margin.

      In fact I think this is the FIRST time Microsoft EVER outranked Sony. And Sony is bleeding bad these days as most products from LCD TV’s and other products are VERY low margin. Sony is thus ranked at 105 and Microsoft at 104. So Microsoft “finally” managed to surpass Sony!

      So HP, Apple, Dell, IBM are VERY MUCH ahead of Microsoft in the global fortune 500 list and they always been.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Warthog

    One simple historical example…..what chance could Bill Gates have against IBM??

    • bachcole

      jonnb, are you reading this?

      • Jonnyb

        I sure am, there is always an exception to the rule. Power bases always wax and wain, like I said before how many Roman businesses are still going? not many, if any. Also have you noticed Oil prices have started to rise? I hope not for long. I forgot to say if Rossi or someone else does succeed with L.E.N.R. it will be even more incredible than the Microsoft and IBM battle. I always preferred Apple OS

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I always preferred the last 50 year “standard” way of rating companies that Fortune magazine uses. That means you rank by revenue.

      Apple is 15th world wide. HP is 50, and IBM is 71.

      To my knowledge IBM has ALWAYS outranked Microsoft by a WIDE margin.

      Dell was #44 in 2012, and 51 in #2013 before they were personally bought back by Dell and are not longer listed. So even Dell every year has outranked Microsoft by a WIDE margin.

      I should point out that Microsoft NEVER EVER made the top global 100. This year is Microsoft’s BEST year, and they came CLOSE to making the top fortune 100 at 104.

      So IBM is 71 and Microsoft is 104 ranked! So IBM might have missed some opportunism, but EVEN AFTER selling and getting OUT of the PC business, IBM ALWAYS remained ahead of Microsoft, and by a WIDE margin.

      In fact I think this is the FIRST time Microsoft EVER outranked Sony. And Sony is bleeding bad these days as most products from LCD TV’s and other products are VERY low margin. Sony is thus ranked at 105 and Microsoft at 104. So Microsoft “finally” managed to surpass Sony!

      So HP, Apple, Dell, IBM are VERY MUCH ahead of Microsoft in the global fortune 500 list and they always been.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Surveilz

      These are all excellent examples, but they fail to grasp the enormity of what Rossi/IH is up against. How many IBMs was Gates facing and how many taxes were these IBMs contributing to your country? Was Gates threatening to disrupt an established global royalty scheme?

      In tax revenue alone, OECD countries raise 1 Trillion USD yearly from levies on fossil fuels! It’s one thing to be up against a myriad business competitors, but when these competitors also include the ones who enact laws?

      Others here have mentioned transition time and non exclusive business arrangements, but then they wouldn’t be disruptive would they. This is partly why I mentioned the entertainment business. They are a classic and recent example of a large, global industry having been caught resting on their laurels by a disruptive technology. Their reaction is disgraceful, to be polite.

      The only salvation I can foresee is if open science efforts like Parkhomov’s spawn innovation that uplift the technology to where you or I can safely build and operate our own devices. Here is a real-world example of why I say this…

      I live in Quebec, Canada where we are blessed with natural resources. Our electricity is hydro generated, abundant and mostly clean. What’s the problem? Government quickly nationalized and cornered the market. It produces, distributes and sells it not based on production costs and reasonable profit margins, oh no, but based on average North American selling prices. To add insult to injury, not only did the bastard dogs pay for their infrastructure using taxpayer funds, but they had the foresight to enact protectionist laws. If I were to go completely off grid, I would still have to pay Hydro-Quebec a monthly minimum. Do you think your government takes exception to such creative, criminal behavior?

      OECD Reference [PDF] http://climatepolicyinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Reductions-and-Exemptions-on-Energy-Taxes.pdf

      • I’ve been beating this particular drum here for a long time, along with one or two other contributors.

        There won’t be a fair fight with cheap, clean energy naturally and freely supplanting expensive, dirty energy. It may well be the case that manufacturer’s are ‘allowed’ to use CF heaters in their factories, as it would be very difficult to prevent this without making the motives very obvious, although option (2) below might make this possible.

        However, electrical power generation might be a very different matter. Lobbying by vested interests that plays into government greed for taxes (and the personal interests of some politicians) will ensure that either (1) the playing field is tilted in whatever direction is required to ensure that CF electricity is charged at rates comparable with existing sources, or (2) the technology is deemed to be ‘nuclear’ and so is sucked into the monopoly of the nuclear power industry, and again charged out at going rates. The latter might also provide a means by which the use of CF process heat by industry could also be controlled or even prevented.

        Which it is could depend on the relative ‘influence’ of the two lobbies concerned (oil/gas industry and nuclear industry), but as both industries are ultimately owned by banks, it could be bankers who determine which way things go. It’s even conceivable that some kind of ‘premium’ might be attached to CF power, over and above excessive profiteering by all concerned, on the pretext that the additional money is required to speed up replacement of ‘dirty’ energy sources in order to ‘save the planet’ (as if the corporate profits generated by savings would not be more than sufficient for this).

        I agree that fully competitive replication, especially if this takes place in a country outside the US-EU axis, might conceivably block such scenarios, but this by no means certain.

        • Surveilz

          By no means certain, because it has to happen at the speed of light. Greed is a swift, tenacious beast. For me, the most troubling day in CF’s short and yet to be developed history came when I learned a Western organization (IH) had gotten to Rossi. This discovery belongs to the Universe, think how ridiculous it would be if we were still paying royalties to the individuals who discovered the means to light a fire.

  • LilyLover

    What Saudis are doing to monopolize the oil market is what Chinese enterprise CAN do to the entrenched giants. 1. The entrenched giants are entrenched. 2. The big Chinese Behemoth is a Behemoth Dragon backing Rossi. 3. There is no competition.
    Rossi wins.

    Obsolete experts cannot compete with Mozarts.

  • LilyLover

    What Saudis are doing to monopolize the oil market is what Chinese enterprise CAN do to the entrenched giants. 1. The entrenched giants are entrenched. 2. The big Chinese Behemoth is a Behemoth Dragon backing Rossi. 3. There is no competition.
    Rossi wins.

    Obsolete experts cannot compete with Mozarts.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    This is great question!

    In technology there is what we call a “real estate” grab. In other words, many companies will grab large parts of a given market, and even do so without making money. Facebook did this for years. They concentrated on expansion as opposed to making money. Now that they “own” most of the market, they are working on “monetizing” that market slice. Facebook revenue for YEARS was nothing to speak of. Now that FB “grabbed” this real estate, then despite a “zillion” competitors, who wants to switch to some other social media, and “why” would they switch? Now that Facebook owns this market, they are see VERY substance revenues occurring for them now.

    Same really goes for Vonage (the IP based phone company) While Sprint was advertising about how clear their phone calls were and how you could hear a pin drop! The phone companies thus did not see the VOIP companies coming! (they thought voice quality was KEY in their sales – it was not!).

    Vonage simply realized that for the VAST majority of consumers their voice over internet call was “good enough”. As a result they grabbed huge tracks of the VOIP industry BY NOT waiting to perfect the voice quality. Now that they have customers, why would their existing customers switch to another “similar” priced VOIP provider? They will not bother with the hassle to change.

    Apple beat everyone to market with a great tablet. All the competitors NOW have great tablet products, but apple grabbed the first 100 million customers. There “little” left over for the rest of the market. Why bother to switch to another tablet when you have one that works well already? Google or Microsoft now have great tablets, but they are TOO LATE to the party. The real estate already been grabbed by apple.

    The same goes for e-cat. Who ever gets their product into millions of homes will win big. And you may WELL see a similar approach to cell phones or say ink jet printers.

    You give the phone, or printer or e-cat away for near nothing or even slightly below cost. You then charge for the re-fill cartridges. And Home Depot will not want to stock 50 different types of cartridges, just like Office Depot don’t stock cartridges for every laser printer in the marketplace.

    So it not so much one has to have the lowest cost, but WHO gets first and gets their foot in the marketplace. While Train, Lennox etc. have HUGE established distribution of home heating products and dealers, they are VERY vulnerable to this change. If I was ANY of these majors – I would be signing contracts with IH right NOW!!!

    In other words, if Honeywell, Trane, Lennox wake up, and get their product out to market FIRST, then e-cat can be thwarted.

    However, the REVERSE is also true. If e-cat grabs large parts of the market, then any major heating company can jump in, but it will be too late. Your only means to grow will be to get existing customers to switch, and you have to give them good reasons why.

    The other interesting point about above is NEW ways of doing a common thing (such as heating) can allow a company to break into a LONG established marketplace with ease.

    When apple jumped into the cell phone market, it was SUPER competitive with low margins. You would have to be NUTS to jump into that marketplace when in fact some of the major players were considering jumping OUT of that marketplace (too competitive, too low margin). Everyone thought Apple was nuts! You mean you can break into a 30+ year ESTABLISHED marketplace that is already saturated?

    Same goes for the home heating market – it is LONG established business and marketplace.

    So e-cat has HUGE possibilities if the majors don’t jump on LENR.

    And while trying to keep this post short – the same thing occurred with Fax machines and that “change” allowed several NEW companies to break into the office machine supply marketplace.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada
    [email protected]

    • bachcole

      I am forced to consider that I may not be the smartest guy in the room?

      (:->)

  • Albert D. Kallal

    This is great question!

    In technology there is what we call a “real estate” grab. In other words, many companies will grab large parts of a given market, and even do so without making money. Facebook did this for years. They concentrated on expansion as opposed to making money. Now that they “own” most of the market, they are working on “monetizing” that market slice. Facebook revenue for YEARS was nothing to speak of. Now that FB “grabbed” this real estate, then despite a “zillion” competitors, who wants to switch to some other social media, and “why” would they switch? Now that Facebook owns this market, they are see VERY substance revenues occurring for them now.

    Same really goes for Vonage (the IP based phone company) While Sprint was advertising about how clear their phone calls were and how you could hear a pin drop! The phone companies thus did not see the VOIP companies coming! (they thought voice quality was KEY in their sales – it was not!).

    Vonage simply realized that for the VAST majority of consumers their voice over internet call was “good enough”. As a result they grabbed huge tracks of the VOIP industry BY NOT waiting to perfect the voice quality. Now that they have customers, why would their existing customers switch to another “similar” priced VOIP provider? They will not bother with the hassle to change.

    Apple beat everyone to market with a great tablet. All the competitors NOW have great tablet products, but apple grabbed the first 100 million customers. There “little” left over for the rest of the market. Why bother to switch to another tablet when you have one that works well already? Google or Microsoft now have great tablets, but they are TOO LATE to the party. The real estate already been grabbed by apple.

    The same goes for e-cat. Who ever gets their product into millions of homes will win big. And you may WELL see a similar approach to cell phones or say ink jet printers.

    You give the phone, or printer or e-cat away for near nothing or even slightly below cost. You then charge for the re-fill cartridges. And Home Depot will not want to stock 50 different types of cartridges, just like Office Depot don’t stock cartridges for every laser printer in the marketplace.

    So it not so much one has to have the lowest cost, but WHO gets first and gets their foot in the marketplace. While Train, Lennox etc. have HUGE established distribution of home heating products and dealers, they are VERY vulnerable to this change. If I was ANY of these majors – I would be signing contracts with IH right NOW!!!

    In other words, if Honeywell, Trane, Lennox wake up, and get their product out to market FIRST, then e-cat can be thwarted.

    However, the REVERSE is also true. If e-cat grabs large parts of the market, then any major heating company can jump in, but it will be too late. Your only means to grow will be to get existing customers to switch, and you have to give them good reasons why.

    The other interesting point about above is NEW ways of doing a common thing (such as heating) can allow a company to break into a LONG established marketplace with ease.

    When apple jumped into the cell phone market, it was SUPER competitive with low margins. You would have to be NUTS to jump into that marketplace when in fact some of the major players were considering jumping OUT of that marketplace (too competitive, too low margin). Everyone thought Apple was nuts! You mean you can break into a 30+ year ESTABLISHED marketplace that is already saturated?

    Same goes for the home heating market – it is LONG established business and marketplace.

    So e-cat has HUGE possibilities if the majors don’t jump on LENR.

    And while trying to keep this post short – the same thing occurred with Fax machines and that “change” allowed several NEW companies to break into the office machine supply marketplace.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada
    [email protected]

    • bachcole

      I am forced to consider that I may not be the smartest guy in the room?

      (:->)

  • Surveilz

    Thank you all for your input, it is always very enlightening and informative!

  • LilyLover

    I was more like – Oh, demolition job scientifically-well done! Why did they choose to forget to inform the people to evacuate? Say, like hurricanes or “snow”? What I felt was – sorry for the people and their suffering relatives.
    But then again one parasite attacking another parasite’s relatives is not really a win-win scenario. Just like murdering innocents for the sins of their “Leaders”. Heart always goes out for the innocents.

    The host – the common people are a perennial tragedy. Who must work and feed the parasites for they bring the pseudo sense of security only to be matched and exceeded by the other parasite – for the other parasite needs to appear to be working just like our parasite.

    Of course my opinion on this matter is scientific, which is not permitted to exist officially. Because MUST pretend as if over the last 200 years we have learned nothing from the strength of materials. It’s not a science – it’s just a magic voodoo. Therefore what TV tells us must be true.

    I also feel anger – as in – people – at least now – WAKE UP!!

  • Fortyniner

    I’ve been beating this particular drum here for a long time, along with one or two other contributors.

    There won’t be a fair fight with cheap, clean energy naturally and freely supplanting expensive, dirty energy. Lobbying by vested interests that plays into government greed for taxes (and the personal interests of some politicians) will ensure that either (1) the playing field is tilted in whatever direction required to ensure that CF electricity is charged at rates comparable with existing sources, or (b) the technology is deemed to be ‘nuclear’ and so is sucked into the sphere of the nuclear power industry, and again charged out at going rates. Which it is will depend on the relative ‘influence’ of the two lobbies concerned (oil/gas industry and nuclear industry).

    It’s even conceivable that some kind of ‘premium’ might be attached to CF power, over and above excessive profiteering by all concerned, on the pretext that the additional money is required to speed up replacement of ‘dirty’ energy sources in order to ‘save the planet’ (as if the corporate profits generated by savings would not be more than sufficient for this).

    I agree that fully competitive replication, especially if this takes place in a country outside the US-EU axis, might conceivably block such scenarios, but this by no means certain.

    • Surveilz

      By no means certain, because it has to happen at the speed of light. Greed is a swift, tenacious beast. For me, the most troubling day in CF’s short and yet to be developed history came when I learned a Western organization (IH) had gotten to Rossi. This discovery belongs to the Universe, think how ridiculous it would be if we were still paying royalties to the individuals who discovered the means to light a fire.

  • Fortyniner

    The killing of ‘free energy’ inventors isn’t proven (as you might expect), but given the circumstances it must be a very strong suspicion in cases such as that of Stan Meyer (water powered car) who died following a meal with two supposed Belgian investors. Meyer’s last words after running outside the restaurant were: ”They poisoned me.”

    http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/28/water-powered-car-unveiled-yes-its-real/
    http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.physics/2009-01/msg01117.html

    Even if Meyer wasn’t murdered as it seems, a general trend of suppression seems fairly clear, that may include some cold fusion inventors and even their early champion, Eugene Mallove.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dw8jqTc7PM2Q&ei=tajQVKecDsTZ7gbzz4DwAQ&usg=AFQjCNEk0_lcHXwm2jTlpRgN3mcVKxzRSQ&bvm=bv.85076809,d.bGQ
    http://coldfusioninformation.com/personalities/eugene-mallove/

  • Observer

    When you love hairless rats as much as puppies and babies, then you have achieved spirituality.

  • Observer

    I love hairless rats for their sacrifice (willing or not). Remember, suffering may be not a reason not to exist, but for many animals we breed into existence, their suffering is the reason they exist. We should acknowledge their existence and love them for their sacrifice.

    • bachcole

      I like you for your sense of humor. I salute your intrinsic worth, even when you are being a goof.

  • GreenWin

    Worth considering is the aging kluge in North America called the power grid.

    “Industry experts tell The Wall Street Journal that less power use is hampering utilities’ ability to maintain the hodgepodge of high-voltage lines and generating plants. Utilities can’t raise rates too much because that will just push more people to invest in “energy-saving gizmos” and solar panels, further reducing the demand for electricity from the grid.”

    http://theadvocate.com/news/business/11503501-123/electric-grid-faces-unexpected-threat

    LENR will find centralized generation entering the death spiral EEI warned of. The grid is uncompetitive, insecure, badly aged and in need of massive investment to maintain. Modular distributed energy and local microgrids will allow whole neighborhoods to quit the grid. These systems require design, manufacturing, installation and maintenance jobs. Distributed energy is far more secure and less vulnerable to weather or attack.

    • this is a process that I have imagined since long.
      Here the argument are rational, but you can add the desperate demand to maintain the jobs, to save the pension funds who own utilities stocks, …
      The government will try to block LENR, not because of a conspiracy of executives and tycoons (they will flee to LENR), but ecause a popular demand to save jobs and status quo.

      the result is that grid will behave more and more like a tax, and probably grid will demand to be funded by those who don’t consume.
      There will be a war between those who pay and those who benefit, until there is a revolution of those who pay. anyway someone will have to pay the dismantling of the grid and powerstation. Share holder, this mean pension funds, will have a share, and state will clean the abandonned places.

      this will not prevent microgrid to develop in parallel.
      if the grid is well managed (improbable) the existing infrastructure may be exploited to organize a smart microgrid between neighbours…
      In fact I expect that people will unplug from the grid fully when the cost of grid will explode, because of… people unplugging from the grid.
      and slowly some will organize a peer-to-peer microgrid, and then new corps will organize that new far-west.
      alternative is that home/building LENR generators, and associated 24×7 support, will be enough reliable and cheap for people to be happy alone.

  • GreenWin

    Worth considering is the aging kluge in North America called the power grid.

    “Industry experts tell The Wall Street Journal that less power use is hampering utilities’ ability to maintain the hodgepodge of high-voltage lines and generating plants. Utilities can’t raise rates too much because that will just push more people to invest in “energy-saving gizmos” and solar panels, further reducing the demand for electricity from the grid.”

    http://theadvocate.com/news/business/11503501-123/electric-grid-faces-unexpected-threat

    LENR will find centralized generation entering the death spiral EEI warned of. The grid is uncompetitive, insecure, badly aged and in need of massive investment to maintain. Modular distributed energy and local microgrids will allow whole neighborhoods to quit the grid. These systems require design, manufacturing, installation and maintenance jobs. Distributed energy is far more secure and less vulnerable to weather or attack.

    • this is a process that I have imagined since long.
      Here the argument are rational, but you can add the desperate demand to maintain the jobs, to save the pension funds who own utilities stocks, …
      The government will try to block LENR, not because of a conspiracy of executives and tycoons (they will flee to LENR), but ecause a popular demand to save jobs and status quo.

      the result is that grid will behave more and more like a tax, and probably grid will demand to be funded by those who don’t consume.
      There will be a war between those who pay and those who benefit, until there is a revolution of those who pay. anyway someone will have to pay the dismantling of the grid and powerstation. Share holder, this mean pension funds, will have a share, and state will clean the abandonned places.

      this will not prevent microgrid to develop in parallel.
      if the grid is well managed (improbable) the existing infrastructure may be exploited to organize a smart microgrid between neighbours…
      In fact I expect that people will unplug from the grid fully when the cost of grid will explode, because of… people unplugging from the grid.
      and slowly some will organize a peer-to-peer microgrid, and then new corps will organize that new far-west.
      alternative is that home/building LENR generators, and associated 24×7 support, will be enough reliable and cheap for people to be happy alone.

  • Allan Shura

    He has a excellent chance if the e-cat is true and is schedule does not experience delays
    and departures from forward looking statements. Nevertheless the longer the delays in a
    product the greater the risk of one or several technologies supplanting a significant
    competitive advantage.

  • Allan Shura

    He has a excellent chance if the e-cat is true and is schedule does not experience delays
    and departures from forward looking statements. Nevertheless the longer the delays in a
    product the greater the risk of one or several technologies supplanting a significant
    competitive advantage.

  • protn7

    If it produces heat and electricity cheaply without adding CO2 and exacerbating greenhouse warming it will become a major source of energy. The government will tax it.