Statement from Industrial Heat Regarding State Inspections and Support of Andrea Rossi’s Work

I received the following statement from JT Vaughn of Industrial Heat, LLC, after I had inquired regarding the position of the company on a recently released report from inspectors from the North Carolina Health and Human Services Department which has been discussed at length here. I, and other inquirers have received confirmation from David Crowley, Manager, Radioactive Materials Branch – Division of Health Service Regulation, that this report was an authentic copy of a report made by inspectors in his department.

I share this statement with the permission of JT Vaughn.

Industrial Heat, LLC has learned of a report confirming the absence of any radioactive materials in our facilities. While the conclusion was sensible — there was no evidence of radioactive material at our site — the report went on to make other observations beyond the scope of the investigation.

Industrial Heat has invested in energy technologies in their early stages of development. ‎We have a long term strategy of spending our resources on ideas which might or might not be successful in the market. We do this because the world still needs new, clean and efficient energy sources. We remain committed to supporting technologies that will reduce the environmental impact of producing energy and raise the standard of‎ living in developing countries.

Industrial Heat acquired certain rights to Andrea Rossi’s LENR technology. The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development, and we are hopeful that our funding can lead to new discoveries. Since the acquisition, there has been no departure from our support for this project, or any other projects.

Any suggestions of the views of Industrial Heat, apart from those described here, do not reflect the views of Industrial Heat or its staff.

  • Daniel Maris

    Well that goes some way to repairing the damage done by the letter. But we really need to know from Vaughn, as a responsible director of the company, that he is aware of where the pilot plant is.

    This statement suggests a certain amount of distance from Rossi which leaves the matter hanging in the balance.

    • Timar

      Maybe Frank could ask Vaughn to at least confirm Rossi’s claims about the pilot plant.

      • Daniel Maris

        I suspect he’s tried!

        • Omega Z

          I doubt Frank would be that Bold with Darden or Vaughn. Best to accept what they give willingly & settle for that.
          Should something come up at a latter date that needs clarification, they are more likely to respond if they see you as none aggressive or even an asset to their cause.

          It would be a shame if Frank actually gets an invite to see the pilot plant as Rossi has implied only to have Darden or Vaughn Nix it.

  • Daniel Maris

    …and well done Frank for eliciting that response.

  • Hi all

    Playing their cards close to their chest, and the wording reminiscent of something I have seen elsewhere, hmm is that a tell I see 🙂

    Kind Regards walker

    • Daniel Maris

      …no need for you to play your cards close to your chest…what do you mean?

    • A very welcome response from JT Vaughn. Good on you sir (and Frank for being our point man on such matters).

      A couple of lines in there gave me a little nausea but I guess ambiguity is the order of the day until Day 400 dawns.

  • Timar

    They are so eager to maintain a low profile that it is quite telling, isn’t it?

    • Daniel Maris

      Well yes, but it can work both ways. It might mean they have the energy revolution under wraps or it might mean they are embarrassed about a stupid investment they made.

      • Timar

        Yes, it can. It couldn’t be more frustrating…

      • Obvious

        My experience with less reputable junior companies regarding failed projects is that they simply cease to mention them anymore at all, and direct all resources to outlining their exciting new project (usually without actually calling it new, since most often it will have appeared before it is obvious they have ceased mentioning the prior project).

        More reputable companies will admit to a failure, sometimes (usually) outline the nature of the problems encountered, and move on to the next thing in an orderly way.

        Very few (the true scams) will continue plugging the failed project without ever admitting a failure, continue efforts towards funding (“We are only just this last financing from success!…), while directors etc. get a(n overly) generous salary with benefits, and then disappear with everyones money.

  • LuFong

    “Industrial Heat acquired certain rights to Andrea Rossi’s LENR technology.” Interesting in he did not say rights, but “certain” rights. Also Vaughn says, “The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development,” whereas Rossi says that he heads IH’s R&D.

    It’s nice to hear something from IH.

    • parallelB

      My rather disappointed reading of the letter affair is that the 1 MW plant was constructed under contract rather than by IT’s own facilities and they are not going to gear up for quantity production until the 1 MW plant is proven. This is logical: what would a production team do for the rest of the year? I do hope there is a lab somewhere though.

    • Surveilz

      Well that’s disheartening, another impeding cog for LENR to contend with.

  • Obvious

    Very good to hear that they are still supporting Rossi.
    I wonder what other technologies they may be supporting (if any)?

    • GreenWin

      Gee. IH should probably be interested in hot fusion. It’s sucked $250B outta taxpayers over the last 63 years and has yet to produce ONE WATT of useful energy. How do we spell B A M B O O Z L E???

      • Obvious

        Sounds like a pretty rough market to invest in. I want a proof of concept before putting my money in…. Oops, I have been paying into that fund my whole working life.

        • LCD

          The statement is weak. I have to agree with Timar. it also seems deliberate. to what end I don’t know.

          • catfish

            ouch. well, at least they gave him money.

  • bachcole

    There goes that enigma for me. I’ll just go back to sleep. Wake me when something important happens

    Any other disconnect is of no significance to me. I don’t care if someone misunderstand someone else.

    Someone should send this to Wright and Krivit. I can’t since I have already had a shower this morning. (:->)

  • deleo77

    It sounds to me like industrial Heat is more of a new energy technology incubator. I was under the impression that it existed solely to support the development of the e-cat. But it sounds like they have their hands in several different projects. Still, it seems like they are committed to helping Rossi develop the e-cat. This whole episode of the story has been strange to say the least.

    • Timar

      Emphasis on: it sounds like. This announcement is cleary stated in a very deliberate manner, but to what ends? They may want to give the impression of being uncertain about the technology and not very dedicated to it in order to keep a low profile.

      That would be a clever strategy, given all the implications and interests at play.

      • ecatworld

        Rossi: results could be positive or negative
        IH: ‎We have a long term strategy of spending our resources on ideas which might or might not be successful in the market

        • But market success and working technology/reactors are different animals. And the latter is earth shattering if true.

          So this 400 day test is I think an (intentional) waste of time. Either IH made a bad investment and they are letting Rossi flame out on a well funded last-chance bender… or they felt the acknowledgment of said earth-shattering technology should be delayed (for whatever reason… my favorite possibility being that they are being good corporate citizens in a government orchestrated soft landing).

          • ecatworld

            Remember this statement from their original press release: ” IH is considering partnerships with industry participants, universities and NGO’s to ensure the technology is developed in a thoughtful and responsible manner.” (emphasis added)

          • Why can’t we get one overly excited insider to spill the beans? I mean there’s, what, supposedly tens of scientists and engineers working alongside Rossi on both the plant and continued R&D. Can’t one of those people just let us know what the heck is happening?

          • ecatworld

            Maybe that’s one reason Rossi is so happy with his team — they don’t leak.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, Cures use to leak info. Look what happened to him. Your gone.

            I imagine he regrets not being privy to insider info.

          • Daniel Maris

            Yep, but on the other hand we do know that plenty of drugs companies manage to keep drugs developments under wraps until they hit the media.

          • Timar

            OK, so who wants to play the overly exited insider? 😉

          • Omega Z

            Me , Me, Me just as soon as Rossi lets me be an insider. Of course, by the time that happens, we’ll all be insiders….

          • Omega Z

            If you recall or were aware of it to begin with, A couple people who used to occasionally leak bits of Info & pics have been cut from the inner circle.

            Need I say more.
            If I were in the inner circle, I would tape or super glue my mouth shut before spilling any beans & being shut out. In fact, I would totally avoid the blogs just to avoid the “temptation”.

            You know as well as I that there are those we would love to be able to say Oh yeah, well???

            But yeah, I hear ya LENR G

          • GreenWin

            Yeah. No. We have firm evidence of “nuclear” transmutation in chicken eggs. Should chicken farmers be reporting to NRE?? How about we consider the un-credible Gary Wright to be a patsy of the nuke village opponents to clean, green abundant energy on Earth. And send him to Bellevue.

          • Omega Z


            Reading the Report. Does it make sense. NO.

            You know, Some Government personnel can be real Dick’s, But many are good people if you treat them with respect. They are just doing their job. A little respect can go a long way & they can be sympathetic to your position.

            I would imagine that JTV was courteous with them & provided certain business details, supplemented by Gary Wrights M.O.. Gary has done this before in Florida. Government people tend to frown on being used for personal fishing expeditions.

            Note: Without any objections, They accept an empty building for inspection never even seeing Rossi & went on their merry way. They sent a copy of their investigation to Wright. Job done. Gary Wrights obtained nothing for his efforts. It would be interesting to know if he tampered with the report before putting it on the net. A little cut & paste maybe.

            Regardless, It’s the only thing that makes sense within the context of the report. They were made aware of the circumstances by JTV & just went through the motions.

          • Omega Z

            You don’t venture half way around the world(China) & discuss a technology you don’t have some reasonable confidence in.
            You would wait.

            That said, The E-cat’s usefulness is not a forgone conclusion at this time. It has yet to be shown that it can be effectively harnessed to perform useful work. It could yet need additional R&D to reach said point. This may very well be(in fact likely) why Rossi repeatedly says, it may be positive or negative. Yes, I dislike that term also, but I understand it.

            Contrary to the view of some here at ECW, This is not Free energy. It has a cost & it needs to exceed that cost in savings to be beneficial. Using electricity in place of N-gas would require an approximate COP=3 to break even in energy consumption. Even higher COP would be required to offset the cost of the E-cat system verses just using a gas burner. Gas burners are substantially cheaper then E-cat reactors & their hardware. This needs to be offset by additional energy savings. Likely a COP>6.

            A COP>1 is scientifically huge, but a COP> then the cost of what it replaces is essential to be of benefit. Other wise, your just trading a dollar for a dollar. Or worse, spending a dollar to save less then a dollar. This will not work. I burnt $100 worth of wood to save $50 on my gas bill. It makes no sense.

            In regards to whatever JT Vaughn said to the inspectors. What would you expect him to say. At best, he would say it’s interesting. At most it’s promising, but I think the latter unlikely, Tho I think Darden used one or both terms in an interview.

            Neither Darden nor Vaughn are going to say anything that could come back & bite them should things turn out negative in any manner. In Fact, I don’t expect much of anything from them until the Pilot plant is as Rossi says, Consolidated. Even then, it could be months even if a huge success. There are those more important then us to be consulted with first.

            As to Vaughn’s letter, It is status quo. The same support given by Darden when Industrial Heat was 1st outed as to having purchased Rossi’s technology. Nothing has changed as far as what they are willing to say.

          • Daniel Maris

            Exactly. It’s frustrating that IH say so little about having rights to a working technology.

          • Gerrit

            It is not IH’s responsibility to do the job that mainstream science gets paid to do.

            Earth shattering is when LENR is finally accepted by the scientific community. Ten fold earth shattering is when a working device based on this technology has already been up and running for a full year.

          • psi2u2

            You seem to be very stuck on the “n” word.

        • Surveilz

          “Industrial Heat acquired certain rights to Andrea Rossi’s LENR technology”

          Industrial Heat seems to have no reservations about the nature of Mr. Rossi’s technology as simply omitting the use of LENR would reveal 🙂

          • Daniel Maris

            True – use of the acronym is confirmatory and on the plus side of the balance.

          • Surveilz

            Don’t expect a mainstream media headline the likes of ‘LENR Disclosed by Publicly Funded Promoter’ anytime soon.

          • bachcole

            Of course. More grease for the wheels of the LENR++ Juggernaut.

  • C. Kirk

    “Unfortunately this lukewarm statement clarifies nothing” Really? I couldn’t disagree more…… perhaps you missed “The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development….. there has been no departure from our support for this project” but you are right in that he didn’t mention a 1MW plant…. If I was the owner of a company that had a revolutionary energy source under R&D I sure as hell wouldn’t want anyone to know where it was being developed……

  • Ivanidso

    While Rossi may exagerate sometimes, this is more confirmation to me that what “Rossi says” is what “Rossi does”.

  • Curbina

    Well, the message it’s kind of self incoherent (acknowledging the validity of the radiation inspection report on one side, and the backing Rossi on the other hand), but also clearly states that whatever may have been said about Rossi it does not mean that Rossi has lost their confidence.

    • Ged

      It means don’t believe anything attributed to them beyond the scope of what they say there. People can make stuff up while using a small grain of truth (the inspection) to try to give themselves credibility. It’s the most potent way to lie–wrap it around a small kernel of truth.

      • GreenWin

        Also used in Exit signs – exhibiting higher radiation than a fully operative E-Cat. Eeeek!

  • US_Citizen71

    Only if radiation is involved. Do they get involved in the affairs of the average nuclear family?

  • Sanjeev

    Great, so IH and Rossi are still together. This reconfirmation is encouraging.

    However, I find this statement very dull and generic. Typical canned response. He did not address the issues of his comments about the credibility of Rossi nor he says why he did not show them the actual factory and just sent them to an empty building. The CFO introducing himself as an accountant is also mysterious.

    It seems that they have only “certain” rights, whatever that means. Its clear that he does not want to reveal much.

    • Ged

      But then he says “acquisition” later on. That’s the main legal word. The only rights that are probably lacking is the right to claim full patent control or something.

      I dunno, this response completely destroys any claims that are made outside the scope of this response–that anything else is attributed to them are false. “[T]here has been no departure from our support for this project” tells us that there is no issues with “credibility” or any jazz like that. I find it forthright and to the point, rather than canned; in fact a little annoyed too. “Any suggestions of the views of Industrial Heat, apart from those
      described here, do not reflect the views of Industrial Heat or its

      • Sanjeev

        Its somewhat open to interpretation. I hope your interpretation is correct.

      • dbg

        I get the same impression. This is the perfect response from IH. It gives nothing away, but confirms the essentials. Dr Rossi (use of title significant) continues to enjoy IH’s support on research and development. IH doesn’t share the views of the inspectors from the Radioactive Materials Branch. IH’s support hasn’t wavered since the acquisition (important too for its subtext). IH is happy to confirm that no radioactive materials are kept at its premises. This last point is great news, otherwise things could have progressed quite differently.

        I’m happy that all other details remain undisclosed. IH knows what it’s doing.

        • Omega Z

          Did you really think they would reveal where the plant was at. Probably Gary did to. FAIL.

          Allegations were made so the Regulators were required to investigate it. Little is revealed in the report, but I imagine there was much more revealed in their conversations with JT Vaughn.

          NOTE: This is the 2nd time around of these exact allegations by Gary Wright. The last time was in Florida & the State NRC.
          Perhaps if he is silly enough to do this again, there may be grounds for the Government to investigate Gary Wright. I believe there are laws concerning use of government agencies for personal vendettas or fishing expeditions. In fact, I’m quite sure of it. I recall someone being directly threatened with legal action by the authorities for such shenanigans…

          As to Industrial Heat & a factory.
          Industrial Heat is a consortium of investors of which I believe is made up of 11 or 12 entities. This can be people, businesses, Corporations, even government or government agencies. Anyone of which could provide facilities & be justifiably called an Industrial Heat factory as they are part of this consortium.

          • Heath

            Great point. If you had something that required over the top security, would you develop it at a place with an address? IH’s statements are indicative of their overall strategy–nothing to see here, one day it may work out. Their security and location will be along those lines. Clandestine. Down-playing. If I were in their shoes, I would do the same. Impressive.

          • Omega Z

            Big Bada Boom on the MFMP live feed about 15 minutes ago.

            No one hurt.

          • Fortyniner

            It still puzzles me that the inspectors apparently found Vaughn at the East Hargill address when they called unannounced. Both known addresses in Raleigh appear to be just ‘fronts’ for a business that actually operates from a secret location. Perhaps he received a tip-off from someone so that he could be there to fend off the investigators?

          • Omega Z

            It is also the address/Office of Cherokee Investment Partners.
            It probably consists of office & possibly an outer office with a secretary.

          • Agaricus

            Given what we know about the techology, there is no indication that anyone in IH is ‘handling radioactive materials, or producing ionising radiation’, so this is not relevant.

          • Agaricus

            Exactly. A couple of rooms above some shops in a tidy suburb – unlikely to be the real centre of a billion-dollar investment business.

          • Omega Z

            Most likely it is the real center of business.
            A large fancy office is an unnecessary expense for many businesses & that’s money better spent invested then spent for show.

            I have a friend who runs a multi-million dollar computer consulting firm & it’s ran from a 12×12 office(A spare bedroom in his house with a separate entrance. When he’s gone which is most of the time, his office calls are forwarded or taken by his son who works for him.

            If you ask him why he doesn’t have a regular office, he’ll tell you he doesn’t need an office at all. Just a place for packages to be delivered & someone to receive/sign for them & a land line. He’s gone most of the time.

          • Pierre Ordinaire

            I would have expected more enthusiastic support from Mr. Vaughn than that generic PR statement.

          • Veblin

            I see JohnP from ECN is back with a new account. Your old posts now just say Guest.

            Remember the good times you had using the name Pierre Ordinaire to post GreenWin Says: messages from ECN and JNewman would play Hector McNugget who supported you but had trouble writing English.

            Remember the good times you had when you wrote that featured Guest post using the name Hope4Dbest so you could later post You’ve Been Punked Frank. Your friends at ECN loved that.

            What are you planing next for a good time?

          • Pierre Ordinaire

            Nice detective work, Veblin!

          • Andy Kumar

            The question should be why Frank is allowing thinly disguised skeps to post here. Too much inbreeding is not good for any group.

          • GreenWin

            Andy, you saying it’s taboo for skeps to “know” each other??

          • GreenWin

            Hee hee! Pierre caught shilly shamming. BTW, the “GW” skeptic on ECN stole my identity. Surprisingly common these days.

    • Obvious

      “Certain rights” probably is the easy way to describe a complicated arrangement that involves some prior license holders that Rossi signed up before IH became involved.

      • Heath

        I believe as Rossi has said before, that Leonardo Corp. would develop the domestic E-cat and Industrial Heat would develop the industrial e-cat (certain rights). What an arrangement, if you think about it. Any adjustments to the e-cat, development by a team with various expertise, can be applied to the domestic units most likely. IH gains the rights to develop the tech, Rossi gets to apply the fast-tracked advancements to his domestic e-cat strategy. Win win for both parties. Perhaps this explains why he was paid a few million for the rights as it will eventually translate to great leaps toward his domestic strategy.

        • GreenWin

          Great thinking Heath! “Certain” is legalize for a limited portion of the bundle of rights in IP. Your assessment strikes me as reasonable and the foundation of a productive partnership between IH and Rossi. Mr. Wright and his handlers likely hoped their kangaroo “investigation” would cast some aspersions on the LENR enterprise.

          Unsurprisingly, Mr. Wright and his infant operatives, are once again outflanked and out maneuvered by superior powers. When will they ever learn?

          • Heath

            Thanks, Greenwin! Gary Wright (like MY) sees everything through a very colored lens. They accuse us of having Rossi-colored glasses, but honestly, I think we are all intrigued. We are trying to interpret a story based on pieces as they are. If we place ourselves in IH or Rossi’s place, the secrecy is absolutely justified in a world where you can steal someone’s identity or military fighter specs overnight.

          • 3 of the best GreenWin.

  • Ged

    As US_Citizen71 said, only if there is radiation/radioactive materials involved. That is, radio-isotopes or radiation emitting devices (like medical x-rays). The E-cat does not use radio-isotopes, so there is no radioactive materials involved under the jurisdiction of the NRC, and it doesn’t produce noticeable radiation so it wouldn’t fall under those regulations. Saying “nuclear” doesn’t mean much, it’s radiation that the NRC is concerned with.

    • Surveilz

      I think it’s a question of radiation levels and not radioactive material. I doubt they are involved with smoke-detector manufacturers for example. The mere mention of regulators at this stage gives me nausea 🙂

  • Ged

    The 1 MW plant has been at the site of the customer for awhile, from what we’ve been told at any rate. I’m also assuming all of Rossi’s old labs aren’t gone either and are still in use. Lab is a loose term. If even computer simulations and numerical methods are being used at a site in a research capacity that is still a lab, so don’t get too hung up on that word as it’s way too broad.

  • ecatworld

    OT: MFMP about to do a leak test on a fueled reactor — check out this thread:

  • Ged

    Well, that’s like saying X-rays are very high energy visible light–technically true but not true to our classification scales. Ionizing radiation is the type of radiation that the NCR and other nuclear regulators are concerned with. When one says “radiation”, it’s implied to be ionizing radiation, as that’s the type that can hurt you. Light and heat are not ionizing, but X-rays are. Alpha particles (high energy nuclei) and beta particles (high energy electrons) are also ionizing, and thus “radiation”, even if they are not part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

  • US_Citizen71

    Got a cite of any rules or regs for reactors in NC?

  • Omega Z

    Do you really think they would lead anyone to where the work is being done. It’s in their interest do avoid this. Curious people would become an impediment to the work.

    They then connect them with an accountant that apparently knows nothing about Rossi. Do you think the accountant wouldn’t be aware of a $11 million dollar transaction & to whom it went to. This was clearly a diversion that the inspectors willingly accepted. However, They received an allegation & are required to look into it.

    They found no trace of nuclear material, no nuclear waste, And I would surmise that if you let them examine Rossi’s reactor, they would conclude it is some type of electric heater. It doesn’t fall under their purview. End of story. Gary Wright struck out in his fishing expedition & that’s exactly what it was about. Finding the location of Rossi’s work or possibly the customer.

    • bachcole

      Seems right to me.

      But I am thinking, to a mainstream physics oriented skeptopath, they can’t lose. If radioactivity is found, then Rossi/I.H. would be greatly impeded in their work. If radioactivity is not found, then this proves that the E-Cat is bogus.

  • Omega Z

    That’s exactly what it is.
    “A game of cloak and daggers”

  • GreenWin

    Jinny, we know it is frustrating for skeptics to be out-maneuvered over and over again. At some point skeps are going to have to accept defeat. No manner of shillery or FUD can reverse the LENR anomalous heat effect.
    However: if the shillery and FUD opposing LENR and Dr. Rossi, is in ANY WAY funded by US tax dollars — there will be investigations, criminal proceedings, and jail terms for those guilty. Constitutional law voids any and all national security “privilege” and secrecy agreements within unacknowledged black budgets. ANY unacknowledged “black” budget operation is Constitutionally unlawful, and its handlers guilty of crimes against the USA. Think about it.

  • Ophelia Rump

    We can expect to see a repeat in Florida, this looks like an attempt to locate Rossi’s workshop and factory, even his customer. It was obviously never about radioactive materials.

    • Fortyniner

      The comments ascribed to Mr Vaughn by the inspectors were obviously an unexpected bonus from Wright’s point of view, and are probably the reason for publication. Vaughn’s low key expression of continued support for AR indicates that there is no rift, so the ‘not credible’ stuff was presumably a bit of bluster intended to deter the inspectors from further investigation. However, mentioning production of e-cats in Florida seems to have been unnecessary in this context.

      Vaughn’s response seems reluctant and very guarded, and it’s pretty clear he would prefer not to have any public attention to IH’s activities at the moment.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I expect the actual wording “paraphrased” was something along the lines that the notion of Rossi using radioactive materials is not credible. Or that Rossi is not a credible suspect for using radioactive materials to build reactors.

        Either way that is a phrase worthy of terminating further investigation.

        • Timar

          It could have been that way. Vaughn said “not credible” in the context you mentioned and for the inspectors, having an orthodox nuclear sciene background and probably the LENR=BS equation in mind, the context simply shifted to what suited their preconceptions. Maybe Vaughn did even cleverly appeal to such preconceptions in order to get rid of them ASAP.

          • Daniel Maris

            But how bright are these guys ? You’ve had this tip-off…wouldn’t you do some internet research? Wouldn’t you find out Rossi claims to be operating a 1MW LENR machine at a commercial plant. Wouldn’t you ask Vaughn some questions about that and wouldn’t you put that in your report?

          • Agaricus

            Radiological testing under operational conditions will be a requirement of industrial certification (operator health & safety, environmental emissions and waste handling, etc). It will be a lot more rigorous than a couple of local officials wandering around armed with radiation meters. Until then, IH will try to keeps their heads down (we are probably not helping in that respect).

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has already obtained Safety certification for Industrial use. This is not an issue. Certification for residential use will take longer as there will be no technicians present during operation. It will require operational data for a set period of time on a set number of reactors to obtain this.

          • Agaricus

            I assume that Rossi’s claim of certification refers to the SGS voluntary safety certification scheme. If units are to be sold or operated on the premises of a private company, each unit manufactured will need a stack of other tests and paperwork relating to ‘health and safety’ from operator’s POV, electrical safety and fail-safe shutdown provisions, signage and emergency procedures, strength testing of pressure vessels and pipework, and potential atmospheric or hydrological contamination, including potential radiological dangers.

            In Europe, again eeach plant manufactured would be subject to EU safety testing, i.e., the relevant IEC certifications for electrical safety systems, Directive 97/23/EC for pressure vessels (part of the CE certification process) and probably a host of other legislation covering health and safety considerations such as thermal insulation, ionising emissions testing, hoses and couplings, fail safe systems and the like. If CF is designated as a nuclear process, then much stricter control system testing is required to IEC 61513, and detailed shielding, integrity and containment testing would be required, along with the installation of all manner of detection/alarm/shutdown systems. Each unit produced would have to have its own pressure vessel, pipework and IEC certification but most of the other stuff would probably carry over. There are probably equivalents to each of the above in the US.

          • Omega Z

            I think your lumping everything into 1 pile. There is a difference between an SGS certification of such & QC control or simple safety inspections.

            An SGS certification is primarily about a products design, the components used & whether it meets certain safety standards under certain uses.. With some products, they may require or suggest a certified manufacturing process or the manufacturer may ask that a process be certified.

            If a manufacturer designed a new boiler, they could have it certified by SGS. As long as they don’t stray from that design, they can mass produce them & attach the SGS markings on each & everyone with no further involvement by/from SGS.

            The manufacturer may even substitute a different safety valve or other components as long as it is for the same purpose & meets or exceeds the specifications of the device it replaces without further certification required.

            Most manufactures implement their own safety inspection process or QC systems, but most of this is just good business practices & has nothing further to do with SGS.

            Safety Certification for Rossi’s E-cat would concern only the E-cat & apparatus associated with it(Controls etc). If an already certified boiler & exchanger system are used, then a standard inspection would suffice. Little different then having a boiler heating system installed in your home, except for Industrial use which tends to be more lenient. You’ll have skilled/trained technicians present during all periods of operation.

            An inspection of a home heating system or newly wired home or device is done by someone knowledgeable & skilled that would merely inspect whether the proper materials, switches etc were used & installed according to best practices. They do not test every little thing. In fact, if you install a new electrical service in you home or business, it usually doesn’t & isn’t even supposed to have power connected to it until after the inspection.

            As to IH/Rossi’s pilot plant. I’m sure the E-cats have been certified & the necessary inspections have been done. If your waiting for them to publish such certification. Good luck with that. Their not allowed to. Rossi had to ask for a special exception when he published his SGS certification for the Lt E-cat.

            As the 1Mw E-cat is a pilot plant, they probably have a lot of leeway as it is highly subject to change. Some safety certification may apply when it is done, But will not be required for additional plants. Certification is once & done. A local inspector is all that will be required for additional installations.

            I really don’t understand the fuss & concern with certification. Especially for industrial use. The hardest part would be scheduling when you, they & your product are ready & available at the same time.

            Otherwise, You pay them their money, they test it & either pass it, pass it with caveats/suggestions to make it safer & check to see that you implemented the changes or reject it. In which case, they provide information on what it will take to pass certification. Not that big a deal.

            For residential, it is much harder, due to the fact, you don’t have technicians always present. The product has to be much more robust as to safety standards & a lot of safety data based on operational history because of possible unknowns of a new technology. This will come from the industrial use.

            Note that commercial microwaves provided the safety data for general consumer products.

          • Agaricus

            Depends how urgently you need to get back to your warm office or the staff canteen, probably.

    • bachcole

      Despite the fact that I am allergic to conspiracy theories, I guarantee that Krivit, Wright, et. al. will try again in Florida. But given the fact that I.H. is already working on work site secrecy, I do not think that the boys dressed in skeptopathology are going to find the various sites in question until I.H. wants them to be found. Florida is a big state.

  • Gerard McEk

    Somehow Vaughn’s response depresses me. The relationship between him and AR feels not optimal. It can also be that they have a distant relationship, which IH wants to keep as distant as possible for whatever reason.

    • Gerrit

      I do not share that feeling. I think Vaughn response shows us, the few hundred e-cat observers, that there is no change in the relation between IH and Rossi. “there has been no departure from our support for this project” and that all other rumours and half truths can be disregarded as they “do not reflect the views of Industrial Heat or its staff.”

      For the rest the message keep a low profile. The e-cat may or may not be “successful in the market”. Which is absolutely true, regardless of the reality of the LENR effect.

      If IH goes public it will be only after there is incontrovertible evidence that the plant can produce industrially useful amounts of energy over extended periods of time. Until that time the rest of the world should not take notice.

      • Gerard McEk

        I hope so!

    • EEStorFanFibb

      To expect more from IH at thus time is beyond unreasonable. Remember, they didnt reveal themselves in the first place. They are operating in semi stealth. And so would you (IF NOT TOTAL STEALTH) if you were developing a trillion dollar product. All product development is done in stealth. We are very lucky to know ANYTHING at all about IH, Rossi or ecats.

  • Nigel Appleton

    What Mr Vaughn said is just what I’d say if my company had its hands on what looked like a very hot (Heh!) property indeed (and had no need of further funding!)

    No point in encouraging potential competitors to up their R&D efforts.

    It’s possible that Rossi/IH now have a clearer understanding of what’s going on in their reactors and need to re-jig or extend their patent portfolio

  • pg

    Anybody has any idea about this?

    It seems another replication of Rossi’s work

    • Wow, looks interesting.

      • It’s a theory paper, not a replication.

        “Experimental observations, which may be related to our theoretical findings, are dealt with.”

        • John

          Now I believe people can understand why as a researcher I call it LEN-R (Low energy reactions) long time ago I took the “N” word from it…. You people stay in this path and bad things are going to hit the technology starting in Carolina spreading all over the world and internet… Please stop calling “N”…

          • Ophelia Rump

            Now no one ever said anything about decoys, you should not make things up.

          • AlbertNN

            Sorry, I misunderstood your comment about the professionalism of using empty warehouses. But if you by that are saying that there are no development activity going on anywhere, I am a bit lost on your point.

          • Ophelia Rump

            My point is that they were professional about how they setup their corporations and their locations from the outset.

          • Omega Z

            Note it already has an industrial safety certification. Apparently none of this is an issue. Otherwise, why would Rossi even bother with trying to obtain a UL safety certification for residential use. Rossi & IH would know if it would fly or not.

          • Ophelia Rump

            It still has all the letters, you just threw in a dash.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Well, maybe it’s just that it could be a fusion-fission reaction that would release all its energy as kinetic energy (heat). Therefore, no gamma rays would be detected.
            For example:
            Li(7) + Ni(61) > Ga(68)* > Li(6) + Ni(62) 3.34 MeV

            Li(7) + Ni(60) > Ga(67)* > Li(6) + Ni(61) 0,569 MeV

            Li(7) + Ni(59) > Ga(66)* > Li(6) + Ni(60) 4.14 MeV

            Li(7) + Ni(58) > Ga(65)* > Li(6) + Ni(59) 1.75 MeV

  • blanco69

    Agreed. If you’re happy to go along with the concept of low energy NUCLEAR reactions then surely, you should not be surprised when certain environmental government departments start knocking your door. The trick is to maintain the misterious black magic effect after those agencies have left saying that there is nothing nuclear going on here.

  • Tried to find the original NCHHS record of the report.

    Hi Mr. Crowley
    I’ve been trying to find
    allegation 2015-01 without any luck. Is it closed to the public? I did a search
    at If you could point me in the right direction I’d appreciate it.
    Thanks, Barry Simon

    Mr. Simon,

    Per the North Carolina Radiation Protection Section’s policy for
    securing allegation information, all documents are to be treated as
    confidential and not to be disclosed for public inquiries.
    Very respectfully,
    David Crowley

    N.C. Department of
    Health and Human Services
    Manager, Radioactive
    Materials Branch – Division of Health Service Regulation
    5505 Creedmoor Rd, First
    Floor, Raleigh, NC 27612
    1645 MSC, Raleigh NC
    Phone: 919-814-2303
    [email protected]

    • Agaricus

      Nice try! The acid test of the truth of that statement is whether or not you were able to access any other complaints and investigation reports through their website?

      • Jarea1

        Everybody see positive that IH support Rossi. Me too. However, please don´t forget that:
        1) In the report Mr Vaughn says that he can´t trust on Rossi. One state employee from the health and humans services has no reasons to lie. That worries me. Is this report aunthentic as Frack says?
        2)The report state clear that the whole building is empty and that real construction according to Mr. Vaughn is done in Florida. Is this true?. Has somebody gone there and check that there is somebody there?. Is again this report authentic?. If that is true then Rossi´s is playing with the information to keep secret the real emplacement. Again, it is annoying not to know that not from him but from somebody elese, we need more info about the development. Until know we only have the Lugano report and we need more progress. Besides, is it legal to keep secret the place where you produce your product?, don´t you have to inform the authorities saying the true?
        Can someone clarify this?

        • bachcole

          First, I dismiss anything in that report due to the simple fact that we don’t really know what was said to whom.

          Secondly, Darden, Vaughn a la Cherokee said that Rossi was their man. Cherokee is clearly legitimate. Therefore Rossi is legitimate.

          This sentence is the basis of your confusion: “That worries me.” Stop worrying. Pretend like this radiation inspectors report never passed before your eyes. It doesn’t mean squat because we don’t really know what was said or done. Clearly something is amiss, but disharmony or disconnect between Rossi and I.H. is not one of snafu things.

          • psi2u2

            I find the question of who actually said what to who when pretty remarkable here. You would think that the state inspectors would aspire to a higher degree of professionalism than the sort we are witnessing here, from the strange problem with not knowing what year the document was probated in to the questions of the jurisdiction of the writers to record comments of the sort they allegedly heard, having nothing to do with their jurisdiction.. I mean, whatever had that remark about Rossi to do with the question of radiation or safety standards? Nada. Not a thing. Sure sounds like good overtime to me – but then, I’m a cynic.

        • Omega Z


          “he can´t trust on Rossi”
          Vaughn didn’t say that at all.
          The report says- “that Rossi did not appear credible(paraphrase)”
          NOTE the “(paraphrase)”. This is the Investigators interpretation. Not what Vaughn said.
          This is also a copy of the report posted by Gary Wright & we can’t even be sure that it hasn’t been tampered with. Nor can we obtain an original to discern this.
          What we do have is a statement by JT Vaughn.

          “the report went on to make other observations beyond the scope of the investigation.”
          The Investigator overstepped his bounds within the investigation.

          Vaughn then says, “The company continues to support Dr. Rossi’s research and development, and we are hopeful that our funding can lead to new discoveries. Since the acquisition, there has been no departure from our support for this project”

          It should also be noted that this investigation all began in the middle of November. Just weeks after a very positive TIP Lugano report. It strikes me as strange that JT Vaughn would say anything derogatory about Rossi’s credibility.
          “is it legal to keep secret the place where you produce your product?”

          This is the U.S. There are regulations & Zoning Laws about the location of factories. There is also a lot of room in defining what a factory is. Thus I can build a lot of things in my back yard garage or shed using a large array of equipment with impunity. So, As long as you abide be these Laws, You don’t really have to tell the Government squat.

          There are other laws that regulate Chemicals & such. Permits are available & inspections may be conducted to make sure you follow the laws pertaining to the storage, use, & disposal of such materials. Again, as long as you abide by the laws, you don’t need to disclose much & many chemicals aren’t even covered except for a safety label on the container.

          IH/Rossi do not use radioactive materials or produce such as the Industrial certification would bare out. What he does would be considered benign & in the U.S. could be done in your garage.

          NOTE: Given the business that Cherokee/Darden are involved in, Fossil Energy & Brown field remediation, It is highly probable that they have business interests that employ or have on retainer that are licensed to handle many radioactive materials. There is a substantial number of people in the U.S. licensed for this. It’s not the roadblock many may imagine.

          Point being, Even if IH/Rossi worked with such materials, it wouldn’t be that big an issue to deal with.

        • Bernie777

          “we only have the Lugano report” and “only” about ten demonstrations, and “only” a hundred excess heat experiments. And the Wright Brothers will never be able to fly.

    • Eyedoc

      Yep, government at its best again….nothing to see here, move along

  • TomR

    It might matter to some people if the report, that is being shown on the internet, is doctored up from the original.

  • Agaricus

    That’s how I would see it. They received a complaint, they investigated, found no substance to the complaint, and reported to that effect. Job done, time for a coffee.

  • Omega Z

    Gary Wright went on a fishing expedition trying to stir the pot.

    From some of the posts,
    What it appears to have done is CONFIRM that Industrial Heat is still in full support of Rossi.
    Something that some have wondered about because Industrial Heat is So Silent on the subject otherwise.

    Gary Wright-0

  • Chris, Italy

    Neither forged, nor reflecting the views of IH. Either seemed wierd to me.

    It is of course a lot less wierd that these dumb bureaucrats screwed up in reporting things.

  • jousterusa

    I wonder if it was Rossi’s enemy, Steven Krivit, who called the health departent? In any case, this evaluation report seems much more definitive and useful as a p.r. and marketing tool than the one we got from Florida. Nonetheless, it cannot explain the apparent nuclear process that like alchemy transmuted the original elements of the catalyst into different ones. I suppose it’s possible that there is a new kind of process, neither chemical nor nuclear, that would as yet be nameless and still to be definitively demonstrated. I am not sure, after this report, that the word “nuclear” is
    appropriate for what we are seeing.

    • clovis ray

      HI, Joe. I to believe it is something new, to the world, and needs all hands on deck, to identify this kitty, we may find that it has nothing to do with LENR, and more to do with superconductive and magnetics , than nuclear transmutation, it would seem that some kinds of magnetism , can materialize , or be make solid, maybe this accounts for the transmuted material.

    • psi2u2

      Well it also could have been Gary Wright. It would certainly be interesting to know to what extent either of them was involved in this. I would think that if Gary Wright were involved in it in any way, that it would destroy his credibility forever. I mean, if he wants to go about stirring up trouble for Dr. Rossi on his own time, that is one thing. But he can’t be both the instigator and the journalist. Its a conflict of interest.

  • Omega Z

    It uses no radioactive materials & produces no radioactive waste. If it produces any ionizing radiation that does not escape the reactor, then it would be no different then a microwave. A safety certification. Not a game stopper.

  • LCD

    Hopefully but that is not what you expect from somebody who apparently knows beyond a shadow of a doubt it works and acts philanthropic in the way he’s trying to bring new clean energy to the world.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      All products are developed in at least semi stealth. No exceptions. your expectations are beyond unreasonable.

      • LCD

        Ok ay, sorry your delicate world was upset

        • EEStorFanFibb

          think nothing of it. there was no upset in my world at all.

  • Agaricus

    Agreed. Use of that nomenclature is a serious error, but it is probably too late to rectify this now. I have suggested on a number of occasions that the word ‘nucleonic’ (in recognition of the involvement of various fermions in the exothermic reactions) be substituted for ‘nuclear’, in order to reduce the problems that the use of ‘LENR’ may give rise to.

  • Warthog

    It is quite possible that the research work is being done in a pre-existing lab facility belonging to one of the other (large) businesses that the founders of I.H. control. It is also quite possible that such a lab will already have the necessary radiological safety equipment and certifications, or can easily obtain them, with no mention at all of the name “Industrial Heat”.

  • psi2u2

    Bachole, I don’t fully agree. I mean, your point is well taken that this statement is a solid confirmation and endorsement of Ing. Rossi and from that point of view the round clearly goes to Rossi et al. again.

    But there is an issue here that is larger than just the future of IH and all the other good guys (and gals) in this LE(N)R (LER? – no, that doesn’t do either, does it?) fight – its about public accountability. If those documents are being arbitrarily withheld, as you can well imagine they might be under these, then that is, to me, a violation of public trust.

  • psi2u2

    Which then makes you wonder about all the incomptency. I suppose it is probably a mistake to expect state auditors to get the correct date on their form or refrain from entering into a semi-public a reported third party hearsay that in its final formulation was clearly intended to damage Ing. Rossi — that makes it even more curious to me that it was such an “exact copy.” Unfortunately I don’t think that’s the only question raised here.

  • Veblin

    Sure, all we have to do is forget what happened before and everything will be fine. As long as we know why.

    GreenWin who posts here and other sites and the skeptic GreenWin who satirically posts on ECN, doesn’t hide behind several different names and accounts. GreenWin doesn’t boast about how he deceived people on another site. JohnP does those things and that is his price.

  • Timar

    You don’t have to. In my opinion there is little correlation left between the question whether the E-Cat is real and the question of Rossi’s credibility. We now have two (mostly) independent Third Party Reports, we have the Parkhomov replication, we have Industrial Heat’s ongoing support for Rossi and their China relations, we have all the intricate details from Mats Lewan’s book, we have Piantelli’s NiH work soon to be replicated by the MFMP – and last but not least we have more than a quarter of a century of successfull LENR experiments. Given all these facts, I think it is simply the most reasonable assumption that the E-Cat is real – at least principially.

    Btw., until two or three years ago, when Paul fell of the fence, or rather let himself be pulled from the fence by an Australian electronic salesman parroting James Randi (and apparently making a big impression on him, for whatever reason is still beyond me), and the site was overrun by an army skeptopaths, I used to post there a lot.

  • Eyedoc

    So ‘LENR’ has a legal government definition now? and it includes the word nuclear ?