Russian Science Media Openly Discussing LENR: Are they Stealing a March on Western Science? (Ian Walker)

The following post was submitted by Ian Walker

Hi all

With Russian science media openly discussing LENR, and a host of conferences on LENR at Moscow’s Universities and academic research centres are they stealing a march on western science?

I refer to the current state of LENR research listed in the publication Pro-Atom

http://www.proatom.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4921

With what appears to be the cold war hotting up again, can western academics afford to allow magazines such as Nature to censor LENR research, based on the negative results of just four incompetently carried out experiments published in the late 80s and early 90s?

With the increasing numbers of successful LENR results, and major academic institutions, research organisations and internet news media talking about LENR with increasing confidence:

The Application of LENR to Synergistic Mission Capabilities (NASA technical report)

NASA Spaceplanes concept running on LENR (cold fusion)! http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments//nasa_spaceplanes_concept_running_on_lenrcold/

There are signs that those at Wikipedia; due to it being seen as increasingly irrelevant, and shifted down the Google rankings as a result, have now reversed the negative view that prevailed there, how long before Nature follows suit?

The question is, will it be too little too late?

Kind Regards walker


  • Agaricus

    The larger ‘BRICS’ nations do seem to have a adopted a more open and matter-of-fact view of cold fusion than the ‘West’, that could well bear fruit in the near future. It seems to be a relatively recent revival though, and probably largely due to Rossi’s efforts – we’ve still lost 25 years of development due to malfeasance on the part of MIT and others.

    As many have speculated, there is probably just as much going on in the labs of military contractors and many large corporations in the West, the main difference being that in the US and its allies, little is published, and other news is actively suppressed (e.g., wikipedia, Associated Press) – for whatever reasons or motives.

    In the ultimate analysis it probably doesn’t matter who is first with a commercial LENR device – everyone will be forced to follow along immediately, and we’ll find out then who has been quietly developing the technology behind the scenes.

    • georgehants

      Peter, just interesting that not long ago Russia was condemned as a closed secret dictatorship, but now it has reversed and the West is continually proven to be the closed, secret dictatorship.
      Democracy has become a joke, just legitimizing the corrupt rich and powerful in all walks of life.
      Time for that revolution I think, peaceful one would hope.
      ——–
      Richest 1% to own more than rest of world, Oxfam says.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30875633

      • Agaricus

        I tend to agree, George, although personally I’m getting a bit long in the tooth to help man the barricades! Like you I hope that inevitable coming changes are bloodless. Increasing public awareness of all the ways in which we are being lied to, abused and manipulated by PTB is the key.

        • georgehants

          Why Are So Many Wealthy People Building Futuristic High Tech Security Bunkers?
          http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/why-are-so-many-wealthy-people-building-futuristic-high-tech-security-bunkers

          • Observer

            Because the “possession by taking” philosophy is alive and well and because they can.

            Everyone else will have to find a less expensive way of keeping what they own… …or be consumed by the takers.

          • georgehants

            So are leaders are there to do what exactly?
            Hide Cold Fusion, protect the rich, Etc. etc.
            Is it not them that are the “takers”
            Has food production in the West reduced, if not then how can there be any boom or bust, how can there be any poor, O yes I forgot, “economics”.
            Technology should clearly even out any inequalities and we can see how keen these people are to speed Cold Fusion etc. into reality.
            Ha, Ha, Ha.

          • Agaricus

            With Oxfam estimating that half the worlds wealth is in the hands of about 1% of the total population, only a very stupid ‘one percenter’ wouldn’t realise that the situation is unsustainable.

    • GreenWin

      Peter, I’d be happy to load a musket aside you and George — even if the ammo be little more than word of LENR. However should kneeling and whites of eyes be required, I shall leave it to the Millenials. BTW, you might find the discussion of Chip Arp’s work on companion galaxies interesting: https://www.youtube[dot]com/watch?v=BGJ1adKQ1QY

  • Anon2012_2014

    LENR if successful would be the end of the Gas/Crude export dominated Russian economy.

    It would also be the end of fission nuclear (and with it all the nuclear proliferation issues as Russia continues to sell technology to known proliferators).

    It will be interesting to see how Russia will evolve in the event of wide spread replacement of fossil fuel with LENR.

  • Anon2012_2014

    There will be new Oligarchs, LENR Oligarchs who profit from the implementation of LENR.

    • Obvious

      I intend to be one of them.

  • Hi all

    In reply to bachcole:

    I also think LENR will reduce world tensions though only after a period of disruption of those who are invested in the existing economic system, both capital and labour.

    This has been the way with every industrial revolution since the dawn of tool use, agriculture, the renaissance, the steam age, the advent of the internal combustion engine, grid based electricity, the computer age, the internet and world wide web, the mobile age, and it will continue as it already is with increasing speed; read your Ray Kurzweil on the approaching socio economic and technological singularity.

    I was pointing out that it can shift the balance of power and that western science was being badly served by its media. That the consequences of censorship on economic and academic development of stealing a march can be profound, if you are the ones always playing catchup in period scientific and economic revolution.

    One has only to consider Spain at the time of the Armada. Up till that point Spain was the world’s superpower, immensely rich from discovery of the America’s, and in fact in the same position as the US now. They failed to note that Henry VIII had developed new cannon technology both in manufacturing from Iron rather than brass, and in the naval role of bringing in the naval gun carriage. This meant that a English ship with a third as many guns of a lower calibre could out gun a Spanish man of war by simply firing 5+ shots for every one the Spanish could. This meant English ships could be a third the size of a Spanish ones and thus more manoeuvrable, have more room for cargo and able to trade from smaller ports, and further up river estuaries or into harbours both in attack and defence.

    Spain never caught up and its empire declined despite it being far richer than and in theory more culturally and scientifically advanced than England, they discovered America after all. It was the conservative, censoring nature of that culture, typified by the inquisition that lead to its demise. Those in power knew what was right any one who innovated or thought differently was a threat. The magazine Nature typifies that pseudo religious hierarchy in western academia, where completely in contravention of the scientific method Theory takes precedence over solid experimentation.

    Nature has failed the Galileo test, and science 101 for it refuses to put its eye to the telescope. While it does so it fails western science and western science suffers as a result.

    When they realise their mistake, and begin to correct it, like the Spanish Empire “… will it be too little too late?”

    Kind Regards walker

    • GreenWin

      Great analogy Ian. However, I suspect as others here do the US military has had a hand in LENR since P&F. Given the cozy relationship between DOE and MIC contractors, the fission/hot fusion “lobby” has managed a knowledge monopoly of LENR and related energy technology.
      It would be unsurprising to me to find some form of LENR at operation in certain types of ordnance and propulsion systems — if and when it is ever declassified.

      • Hi all

        In reply to GreenWin

        I do not dispute what you say about US military and attendant businesses. I can say no more on the subject. 😉

        And would add Rossi is in the US, as are several other LENR groups but they, while innovator,s are just a small group of perhaps a thousand scientists, engineers and business people.

        My point is that censoring science as Nature and others are doing has allowed Russia to gain the initiative in a time of scientific revolution, when a tipping point is being reached. That tipping point as others have already pointed out is fast approaching. That tipping point is a place in time when the direction and speed of an industrial advance can be most easily steered, there are less, bureaucratic and socio economic constraints as no one has conceived of them yet. And those who stand upon that ground in the beginning get to decide what those bureaucratic and socio economic constraints are and place them so as to be the entrenched organisations in the market.

        Russia is able to apply all its scientists, engineers and business people’s minds to the subject as they are all able to openly read about debate and investigate advances in LENR, leading to a faster reaction to an impending industrial revolution, and allowing Russia to tip the balance of LENR power to its favour.

        Nature and its physics theory first priests are facilitating the blinding of western science, and by extension, its engineering and business.

        Kind Regards walker

        • GreenWin

          Good points. Yet, IF Rossi’s industrial plant proves commercially successful, it will have done so without Nature or Science – further relegating each to the slag heap of failed academia.

    • bkrharold

      Thank you for the history lesson, it is very enlightening. The current TV series “Black Sails” is about that period, fascinating. I like your analogy between the Spanish Empire and the modern day America. My interpretation of what is happening here in the US is that the moneyed class are cynically using divisive tactics to turn ordinary Americans against each other, and to encourage people to vote against their own interests. Religion and race hatred are the tools they are using to accomplish their goals. At present the system is so corrupted by money, it is dysfunctional and incapable of making any progress. The ruling plutocrats have no interest in LENR, or anything else that might help ordinary Americans. However once the secret to releasing LENR+ is out, it will be hard to contain. If LENR is developed by another country first, we cannot rely on the US government to mount a Manhattan type project to catch up. We will have to depend on Industrial Heat, Bill Gates and other like minded forward thinking individuals and companies. They must create a practical, safe LENR device, and sell them in large enough numbers, to convince the fossils who are now in charge, to wake up. If and when they do, it will be for their own selfish reasons, not any desire to help middle class Americans.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        Well said:

        “My interpretation of what is happening here in the US is that the
        moneyed class are cynically using divisive tactics to turn ordinary
        Americans against each other, and to encourage people to vote against
        their own interests. Religion and race hatred are the tools they are
        using to accomplish their goals. At present the system is so corrupted
        by money, it is dysfunctional and incapable of making any progress.”

    • builditnow

      Nature could go down like a Spanish man of war ship. glug glug glug 🙂
      Their reputation in my eyes is below zero, think of a large negative number.

  • georgehants

    Many thanks Dave, A certain American President seemed to understand that having a corrupt ruling class perpetuating inequality for their own ends could be very dangerous.
    It is I think amazing how greed etc. can make these people so blind.
    ——–
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
    John F. Kennedy

  • georgehants
    • GreenWin

      Heresy George! Heresy! For those living in Colorado and Washington State – the weed is now legal.

      • georgehants

        GreenWin in the UK they are filling the Media with warnings about marijuana, without making it clear they are talking about high strength skunk.
        Just another instance of corruption to hide the medical benefits, because as Roger Bird correctly points out, there is no gain to the rich from a weed that anybody can grow in the garden, in place of the billions made from tranquilizers needed to combat the insanity etc. of living in this modern World.
        We need a different sim.

        • GreenWin

          Agreed. And years ago, Randolph Hearst financed the now hilarious “Reefer Madness” campaign. Why? Because hemp makes a fine paper and Hearst was heavily invested in wood pulp paper. Surprise.

        • bachcole

          Legal marijuana is a threat to others on-going profits; it is not merely something that they can’t make much money off of.

          But also, marijuana just isn’t any good for people. I ought to know. At this point in history with the extreme polarization of the issue, the only way to know for sure is to have done it for a number of years, which I did. As far as recreational use, it is just no damn good for one physically, mentally, and spiritually.

          Saying that it isn’t as bad a alcohol may be true but is implying that it is a positive good, which it is not. Clearly, a person can toke all day long and still be able to function, whereas binge drinking can kill you. The vibe with grass is much better than alcohol. But comparing grass with alcohol with me just won’t work since I don’t drink and have a deep and abiding disgust for it. Alcohol is an organic poison. People need to learn to manage their problems rather than running away from them; we are in this world to solve problems with loving kindness. Being plastered isn’t a solution, whether one is using marijuana or alcohol. I don’t want either to be illegal, but they both suck spiritually, mentally, and physically, and I won’t let this moment pass without saying so.

          • georgehants

            23 Health Benefits Of Marijuana
            http://uk.businessinsider.com/

          • US_Citizen71

            From the 1001 various uses of the low THC hemp varieties to the heavily intoxicating strains that win the Cannabis Cup, cannabis is a gift from nature that should be legal and accessible to all. To much of anything can be bad including water, which can kill you if you drink too much too fast. Everyone should experience reality on a daily basis, going through life inebriated no matter the source is not good for anyone. But the occasional use or even the daily use of cannabis after work to relax should not make someone a criminal and in truth may length the span and quality of that persons life. The FUD that has been spread mainly by the US government, has suppressed the truth for the gain of a few at the cost of the ruined lives of many. Spending time in prison hurts ones spirituality and health far more than cannabis ever could. There are dozens of different cannabinoids in any strain some only present in tiny miniscule levels. These less talked about and investigated cannabinoids will likely be the source of a whole new branch of medicine and pharmacology once the plant is again free to be studied. Going back to hemp as source material for fiber, paper, lubricants, fuel and even food will elevate the standard of living for many through accessibility, efficiency and better land use. /rant

          • Alain Samoun

            And this guy is living in Colorado… What a waste!

          • Mytakeis

            Cannabis oil, sans THC, is a wonderful source of healing. Personal discernment in using THC is well advised, as you do so advocate.

      • georgehants

        GreenWin, are you thinking of moving to one of those States then, Colorado I think is warmer and much closer to Roswell. ha.

  • georgehants

    Ha, ha, ha, so there is nothing wrong in this World.
    You would not happen to be part of the establishment, would you?
    Have you ever heard of a guy called maryyugo who tries to cover up, debunk and deny reality?

  • GreenWin

    Gosh “Wayne” – it’s been 328 years since Ike Newton told us about a thing called GRAVITY. But we’ve yet to obtain a complete explanation of how it works. Let’s hope the day is coming when some scientist will demonstrate an open experiment (we all can do) that proves how gravity consistently works from the quantum to cosmic planes. Until then, don’t let another apple fall on your World Wayne. 🙂

    • Agaricus

      I particularly like the ‘rubber sheet’ explanation often used by ‘physicists’ on the box, in which gravity is shown to arise from the effect of, er, … gravity on 3D space.

      • georgehants

        Peter, you and GreenWin just like trouble, always bringing up things that our Wonderful scientific profession like to hide under the carpet.
        You should learn from me and always follow the masses, never saying boo to anybody.

        • Agaricus

          Yep – the last forty years or so might have been a lot easier.

  • Alain Samoun

    The free test (icles) are coming (see Parkhomov)….

  • Hi all

    In reply to Carl Wilson

    You are correct.

    When you see a technology is no longer relevant they key thing is to position your self not for the past but the future. While it will mean an end to Russian Oil and Gas power so what? They are history. Fossil fuels become irrelevant so it is time to move strategically to exploit LENR.

    Kind Regards walker

    • builditnow

      Yes, just look on a map of the world and see how much land mass Russia has. The problem is, most of it is a very harsh environment, very cold, plenty of water. LENR for heat and transport will open all this land up for use.
      LENR will help Russia more than most other countries.
      Putin said the price of oil is going down and staying down. He could only say that if he knows LENR is coming.
      If the Russians are smart, they will take the lead on LENR, use it themselves and be the supplier to the world.

      Interesting, don’t you think, that LENR is not being suppressed in Russia.

  • Hi all

    In reply to Wayne M on this matter:

    “…The Russians are not getting ahead of the West. Actually they have just caught up to us…”

    I need to make clear the significance of what I am writing, to you 🙂

    There is a quote, often attributed to Joseph Stalin in relation to why the poor quality equipped and trained soldiers of the Soviet Union beat the better equipped and trained Germans; which translates approximately to: “Quantity has a quality all of its own.”

    The sheer numbers of Russian scientists, engineers and business people being exposed concept of LENR because have free open scientific media compared to the pitiful numbers of western scientists, engineers and business people under our censored scientific media means they will gain an advantage and that advantage will only grow, while Nature and its pseudo religious theory first priesthood hold sway.

    Kind Regards walker

  • Alain Samoun

    Bachcole: What kind of pill you replace with tumeric dissolved in “healthy oils”? Is that cuisine from N.Zeeland? seems to me too close to the one from England…

    • Agaricus

      And what’s wrong with a diet based mainly on fry-up breakfasts, curries, or fish and chips???

      • Alain Samoun

        Looking at the latest pictures of people working with Rossi,it must be the secret ingredient 😉

  • it is since few month that proatom.ru publish more pro- LENR articles than usual…
    Lugano have unlocked something maybe…

  • georgehants

    Roger, to make your point you must show that the sensible use of a natural tranquilizer such as Marijuana is not beneficial to a persons well-being.
    All medical tranquilizers have problems, the diazepam that has been given away like sweets to patients until is was admitted it is horrifically addictive is a point that comes to mind.
    ——-
    The Medical “Benefits” of Smoking Marijuana (Cannabis): a Review of the Current Scientific Literaturehttp://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/medical_marijuana_review.html

  • georgehants

    We must not be to hard on these sad people. 🙂

  • psi2u2

    To me the speed and extent to which LENR research is proliferating in Russia tends to validate the idea that at the summit President Obama said something about LENR to Putin. At least we have correlation for that hypothesis.

  • Mytakeis

    Disband academic oversight, as practiced in the USA, because no industry seeks truth over profit. Established energy industry, a case in point. Domestic academic oversight, hopelessly compromised by the industry, can not fulfill its mandate: apply scientific method. Progress lost, devices suppressed, greed and fear reign supreme in Academia. Disband academic oversight of LENR.

    • GreenWin

      U.S. Academia will suffer the humiliating fact it’s best and brightest failed to follow the evidence of LENR. Caltech and MIT will become targets of mirth and derision. And “consensus science” shall be awarded the dunce cap of the 21st century.

      • bachcole

        The more progress other countries enjoy with LENR without the USA/UK getting off of the starting block, the better will be the cleansing at the top.

        • Agaricus

          Potentially quite expensive for the peons of both countries though, if we end up having to buy the technology from China, India or Russia.

          • bachcole

            You forgot to put in the {joke} {/joke} tags. I thought that you were serious there for a second.

            The instant that the first LENR gets here, it will be reversed engineered. Unless Rossi beats them to the finish line.

      • EEStorFanFibb

        Since you brought them up again…

        So let me get this straight. you and your like-minded buddies here are fully on board with the idea that physicists and administrators at Caltech and MIT would lie, obfuscate, manipulate the masses via the MSM, and generally cast doubt on cold fusion to protect their interests in the status quo (hot fusion). (I tend to agree btw)

        …. while at the same time you appear completely prepared to ignore how the fossil fuel industry would ALMOST CERTAINLY do (and does) the exact same stuff (and more) to protect their multi-TRILLION dollar industry against the multi-decade climate science consensus (yes I used that dirty word) AND against cheaper and safer climate friendly energy technologies such as wind and solar?

        hmmmmm….

        • georgehants

          Nobody could sensibly deny that capitalism is totally corrupt and many capatilists would not deny it, but the difference is, scientists try to make out how honest and clever they are even with the Facts of Cold Fusion and a thousand other incompetent examples before them.
          ——–
          “Since you brought them up again”
          You may enjoy this article on the scientific corruption regarding “climate change”
          http://www.globalclimatescam.com/category/corruption/

          • for some capitalism is not corrupt, but it is captured by a gang of aristocrats helped by the politicians who defend economic rents against competition…

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Is there a consensus? I’m not so sure about that. Please watch this video.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-m09lKtYT4

          • EEStorFanFibb

            yes, of course there is.

            Abstract
            “We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics ‘global climate change’ or ‘global warming’. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming.

            Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus.

            For both abstract ratings and authors’ self-ratings, the percentage of
            endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally
            increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers
            rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the
            published research.”

            http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Wow, that’s disconcerting. Only 0.7% are aware of what’s actually happening.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            PS
            Soon they’ll have that down to zero.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9hgTc0oPDA

          • that is better than for LENR.

            anyway the 97% argument is challenged by some dissenters…

            eg:

            http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/97_Consensus_Myth.pdf
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

            I did not check if the arguments were good, as AGW is solved if existing, and as if it is a hoax the cost problem is solved too.

            It will give peace to family dinners.

        • GreenWin

          I tend to think the fossil/fission cabal pays or pressures the puppets at MIT and Caltech to do their bidding. But for some odd reason both Caltech and MIT “consensus” support the AGW fraud. If they’re lying about CF, they’re lying about AGW.

          • I see no evidence of fossic cabal agains LENR, they helped much compared to the cabal of academic , physicist, DoE, editor, to the cowardliness of politicians and journalists.

            about political bias,
            someone recently references to Maddox who blocked cold fusion papers like Oriani, and worst of all the corrections of past negative papers.

            you will notice who was that guy, as he tried to deny Big Bang, because …

            what ? because of scientific questions ? of intimate beliefs ?

            because it could give fuel to creationist…

            those pretended scientist imagine they have a holy war against bad science, which make them behave like … priests.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            look who’s been caught taking bribes

            “The New York Times reports a wee problem with Soon’s work:
            He has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals
            that published his work.

            The documents show that Dr. Soon, in correspondence with his corporate funders, described many of his scientific papers as “deliverables” that he completed in exchange for their money. He used the same term to describe testimony he prepared for Congress.”

            http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/02/climate-change-deniers-take-yet-another-hit

      • I hope so, but cockroach can resist even the worst humiliation by attacking weaker than they and inverting logic.

        See how Semmelweiss is not victim of defenders of spontaneous generation consensus, but of social class of evil doctors ?
        see how Wright plane was ot ridiculed by scientific journals and academic, but delayed by the secrecy of Wright brothrs (who made demo in public)…

        like psychpath, the groupthink mindguards will blame the victims of their crimes.

        Expect no excuse, no revenge. they are the history, so they can bent it.
        Taleb explain it well in Antifragile (History being written by the losers)

  • psi2u2

    Interesting. I still consider myself an environmentalist, and there are huge problems (massive plastic poisoning our oceans, etc.) that we need to address. Thankfully, global warming is not really one of them, imho.

  • georgehants

    dbg, Do you mean the “scientific method” that has corruptly debunked, delayed and denied Cold Fusion for 25 years?

  • Agaricus

    Good comment.

    Coincidentally I also only recently learned about the advantages of steeping turmeric in digestable oil to extract the fat soluble components – small world indeed.

  • georgehants

    Who do you believe should follow this “scientific method” just individual Brave Rebel scientists, willing to practice it in spite of the abuse and denial from the vast majority of supposed scientists and the administration, or could you possibly agree that it should be the whole of science that should be Researching and Investigating the phenomonon.
    You seem to be saying main-line science will only investigate and except when somebody has already proven to them that the effect is genuine.
    Have you ever heard of the chicken and egg situation.
    Thank god for these Rebels.

    • dbg

      I think my understanding of the scientific method differs from yours, and it’s here that Wikipedia is helpful.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

      This quote is useful in the Rossi/cold fusion context: “Though the scientific method is often presented as a fixed sequence of steps, it represents rather a set of general principles. Not all steps take place in every scientific inquiry (or to the same degree), and are not always in the same order.”

      I’m not saying any of the things you appear to think I’m saying. Please read my comments again for what I actually said. I support the scientific method. I support Rossi’s research. I have a good understanding of the history of cold fusion research and the issues surrounding mainstream science. That is all.

      Right, time for a nice cup of tea!

      • georgehants

        dbg, you are like all people that try to cover-up their meaning just going round and round and yet saying nothing.
        Try answering a direct question —–
        Do you believe scientists and the establishment followed any interpretation of good science regarding the proven corrupt and incompetent cover-up and subsequent debunking and denial of Cold Fusion?
        Please do not reply with a load of meaningless hand-waving, this is not a scientific conference.

  • georgehants

    dbg, you again use the deniers tactics of saying nothing and going round and round the houses.
    If you cannot understand and answer the above question I am not going to try and ask it again with less syllables for you.
    I will wait to see if you can write any coherent posts in the future, should be quite interesting as I enjoy seeing cover-up tactics at work.
    Since maryyugo we have not had many on here.

  • Agaricus

    It does work – my knees stay fixed so long as I take a teaspoonful every day or two. I never touched pharmaceutical pain killers – just lived with the discomfort.

  • Obvious

    Wonderful day.