Blacklight Power Having Challenges With Prototype

The following post was submitted by Becktemba

Blacklight Power having challenges sourcing parts and controlling its prototype.  Alludes to problems with the brain of the system or controlling the system.  Also with sourcing certain components.

Check out Blacklight Power’s latest tweets.

https://twitter.com/blacklightpower

  • NCY

    more delays and more delays. Mills has been delaying this thing for years, he consistently says that he’ll have a prototype next year, and has been doing it for 20 years. When do we stop believing him? honestly he has a device that HE SAYS works, but all I see is a fancy sparkler firework. Its time for Mills to stop promising things he can’t deliver.

    • builditnow

      Blacklight gets a low credibility rating from me.
      Just a personal opinion from personal observation.
      Having watched a couple of Blacklight’s video’s, I observe a considerable potential for Mills to have surrounded himself with “Yes Men”. It seems that there could be little room for a personal opinion at Blacklight. Because of Mill’s behavior I observe, I’ve rated Blacklight as having a 1% chance, from my viewpoint, of even having anything at all. Then a much smaller chance of creating something real.
      Too much blase, off handed, ego from Mills.
      I’m not expecting Mills to change.
      I’ll look again when has a self running machine with no connections to external power sources and, making way more power than could be explained via chemical reactions.

  • Facepalm

    Claims by BLP:

    1999: Will commercialize a hydrino power generator within a year. 1000 W, within 4 months.

    2005: Only months away from commercialization.

    2008: 50000 W, within 12 to 18 months.

    2009: Commercialization within 1 year to 18 months.

    2012: 100 W by the end of 2012, 1500 W 2013

    2014: 100000 W in 16 to 18 weeks.

    • Daniel Maris

      Spectacular…claims.

    • Agaricus

      Mills did some good work on ‘chemonuclear’ anomalous heat systems, including Ni/H, but seems to have become obsessed with his hydrino theory to the exclusion of any other possibilities. It’s this that has led him down the dead end of mechanical-feed plasma toys.

      I don’t see an intentional scammer, although that’s what his claims amount to, but as a highly autistic individual blinded by his own perceived brilliance. I suspect that at the time, he truly believes the claims he makes, is puzzled when his clunky modified spot welders fail to work as envisaged, but somehow continues to believe that success is just around the corner.

      Unfortunately, while he is genuinely a first rate theorist, his engineering abilities ‘suck’. Until he co-operates with some genuine engineers who can foresee the potential problems with his ideas and either work around them or suggest alternative approaches, then IMHO he will remain stuck in his current pattern until the funding eventually dries up.

      • Owen Geiger

        He got input from experienced engineers this time and still has nothing credible to show.

        • Agaricus

          I really meant work with as equals, allowing them to design equipment utilising his principles, rather than as technicians following his instructions. I doubt very much that his ego would allow anything like that.

      • Mark Underwood

        Combine: Dr. Mills can-do attitude, with the thrill of a finding a new method of generating hydrino, with a desire to reward and attract investors, to improve the world, and to provide the ultimate demonstration of his grand unified theory of classical physics.

        What do you get? Unfortunately one thing is a blindspot to very real obstacles in the path to a working device.

        Depending on the particular method Mills has discovered to generate hydrino over the years, the obstacles have varied: from unacceptably low power density to quenching of the hydrino reaction to difficulty regenerating the catalyst to engineering challenges.

        Happily, it appears that with the latest attempt – the SunCell – the only substantial obstacle is the engineering challenge.

        If one looks only at missed timelines then yes it can be easy to become jaded. Or blinded. Blinded to what Mills has accomplished over the last twenty years in published physics theory and demonstration of the hydrino’s existence and potential for power generation, and in chemistry software.

        In a way, a practical working device is icing on the cake at this point. Pity to refuse or dis the cake just because it doesn’t (yet) have icing.

        Eugene Mallove, even on his last interview (Coast to Coast) – considered Dr. Mills and Blacklight Power as leading the way, ahead of cold fusion, in giving unmistakeable and reproducible results in anomalous energy generation.

        • Agaricus

          Dr Mills’ can-do attitude seems to stem from an inability to accept that his concepts may simply not be workable. The problems mostly arise from ‘real world’ issues such as ejecta and deposits on mechanical and optical surfaces, unavoidable heat buildup, inefficient collection and conversion of output, and similar obvious problems which he glibly dismisses but actually has no workable solutions for.

          While each problem can be masked by additional layers of complexity, none of these will provide 100% solutions, meaning that any devices based on his current ideas would be extremely (and increasingly) inefficient and subject to very rapid failure when run for any length of time. He appears to think only in ‘overview’ mode without consideration of detail, and seems incapable of the discipline necessary to get each step in development working before moving on to the next.

          For example, a reliable feed mechanism before calorimetric measurement of I/O, before attempting to harvest/convert light in the current case, and similarly for the previously proposed MHD generator concept. Basically he needs to re-think some basic ideas but seems unable to do so, possibly because this would reveal his fallibility. In many ways he seems to be his own worst enemy, and any hope that he will succeed in building a workable energy source seems pretty slim.

          It seems to me that so far we only seem to have an unproven recipe and less than half the ingredients, but no cake at all (proven overunity energy output from a repeatable process).

          • friendlyprogrammer

            The Suncell is obviously a direction the company has taken only within the past year, and watching the July 21st demonstration is important to any wishing to comment.

            Once these high brightness/heat low compression Plasma bursts were created by them (USING THE HYDRINO THEORY), then the possibilities to adapt this light to Solar PV cells seemed most prudent.

            I’d say this Plasma Burst is akin to discovering the right filament for the light bulb invention. They have a plausible direction that they have been at for less than a year.

          • Agaricus

            It’s impossible to judge the energy contained in a bright flash from a video, and insufficient information is provided about I/O to do this by calculation, so even the first step – proving COP>1 – remains so far unproven. The flashgun on my camera can deliver a string of very bright plasma discharges using just 4×1.5V alkaline cells for power, but there was nothing on the box about overunity.

            The expensive looking kludge that Mills (with an obvious eye on his investors) has given the pretentious name ‘suncell’, would be lucky to last 10 minutes in operation — even assuming that some way could be found to reload the feed chain with fresh ‘fuel’. The only real question is what would kill it first – spatter and vapour deposition on the optics, flying sparks and debris in the feed mechanism, or general overheating, particularly in the photovoltaics.

            If Mills would just focus on step 1 and show conclusively that more energy is being produced in his mini-explosions than is being consumed to create them, then at least there might be some basis for hoping that one day he might be able to devise a workable power plant based on his theories. On the evidence so far though, this doesn’t seem too likley.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            So… You’re saying they’ve been trying for almost a year now and should just give up?

            The Mark Underwood timeline mentioned below is what we’ve seen from BLP so far. In fairness; an invention that could easily replace the fuel source for EVERYTHING on the planet with ZERO EMISSIONS should deserve at least a year and a half for R&D. It would prolong millions of lives and provide desalination and cheap food to starving nations as a bonus. Not to mention everything from your 60″ television to your paper towels will be able to sell for less than half of their current worth once manufacturers, shipping venues, and stores pass on their energy savings to other manufacturers and stores, prompting an economic upturn like never before.

            Should the Wright brothers have given up after a year?

            Should Tesla have given up on AC power after a year?

            Should Ford have given up on car designs while he was still on model “S”?

            Name ONE industry or people that will not be drastically improved after this invention is realized if it is real.

            You want Mills to concentrate on step one. He is. His concern is the Plasma ignition.

            Mark Underwood says everything best below. This is simply a logical progression of research.

  • Facepalm

    Claims by BLP:

    1999: Will commercialize a hydrino power generator within a year. 1000 W, within 4 months.

    2005: Only months away from commercialization.

    2008: 50000 W, within 12 to 18 months.

    2009: Commercialization within 1 year to 18 months.

    2012: 100 W by the end of 2012, 1500 W 2013

    2014: 100000 W in 16 to 18 weeks.

    • Mills did some good early work on ‘chemonuclear’ anomalous heat systems, including Ni/H, but seems to have become obsessed with his hydrino theory to the exclusion of any other possibilities. It’s this that has led him down the dead end of mechanical-feed plasma toys. He only needs to look at the work of Stanley Meyer to see the way forward with HV water plasma systems, but seems unable to let go of his own unfeasible ideas.

      I don’t see him as an intentional scammer, although that’s what his claims amount to, but as a highly autistic individual blinded by his own perceived brilliance. I suspect that at the time, he truly believes the claims he makes, is puzzled when his clunky modified spot welders fail to live up to his expectations, but somehow continues to believe that success with them is just around the corner.

      Unfortunately, while he is genuinely a first rate theorist, his engineering design abilities ‘suck’, and most of his devices and proposals are fundamentally flawed to the point of complete impracticality. Until he co-operates with some experienced engineers who can foresee the potential problems with his ideas and either work around them or suggest alternative approaches, then IMHO he will remain stuck in his current pattern until the funding eventually dries up.

      • Owen Geiger

        He got input from experienced engineers this time and still has nothing credible to show.

        • I really meant work with as equals, allowing them to design the working equipment utilising his principles, rather than as technicians following his instructions. I doubt very much that his ego would allow anything like that.

      • Mark Underwood

        Combine: Dr. Mills can-do attitude, with the thrill of a finding a new method of generating hydrino, with a desire to reward and attract investors, to improve the world, and to provide the ultimate demonstration of his grand unified theory of classical physics.

        What do you get? Unfortunately one thing is a blindspot to very real obstacles in the path to a working device.

        Depending on the particular method Mills has discovered to generate hydrino over the years, the obstacles have varied: from unacceptably low power density to quenching of the hydrino reaction to difficulty regenerating the catalyst to engineering challenges.

        Happily, it appears that with the latest attempt – the SunCell – the only substantial obstacle is the engineering challenge.

        If one looks only at missed timelines then yes it can be easy to become jaded. Or blinded. Blinded to what Mills has accomplished over the last twenty years in published physics theory and demonstration of the hydrino’s existence and potential for power generation, and in chemistry software.

        In a way, a practical working device is icing on the cake at this point. Pity to refuse or dis the cake just because it doesn’t (yet) have icing.

        Eugene Mallove, even on his last interview (Coast to Coast) – considered Dr. Mills and Blacklight Power as leading the way, ahead of cold fusion, in giving unmistakeable and reproducible results in anomalous energy generation.

        • Dr Mills’ can-do attitude seems to stem from an inability to accept that his concepts may simply not be workable. The problems mostly arise from ‘real world’ issues such as ejecta and deposits on mechanical and optical surfaces, unavoidable heat buildup, inefficient collection and conversion of output, and similar obvious and foreseeable drawbacks which he glibly dismisses but actually has no workable solutions for.

          While each shortcoming can be masked by additional layers of complexity, none of these will provide 100% solutions, meaning that any devices based on his current ideas would be extremely (and increasingly) inefficient and subject to very rapid failure when run for any length of time. He appears to think only in ‘overview’ mode without consideration of obvious potential engineering problems, and seems incapable of the discipline necessary to get each step in development working before moving on to the next (as Rossi does).

          For example, a reliable feed mechanism before calorimetric measurement of I/O, before attempting to harvest/convert output. Basically he needs to re-think some basic ideas but seems unable to do so, possibly because this would reveal his fallibility. In many ways he seems to be his own worst enemy, and any hope that he will succeed in building a workable energy source seems pretty slim.

          It seems to me that so far we only seem to have an unproven recipe and less than half the ingredients, but no cake at all (proven overunity energy output from a repeatable process).

          • Mark Underwood

            Consider how Mill’s methods of producing hydrino have changed over the years: from aqueous heat generation to plasma motion generating electrical generation to heat generation from nickel hydride powder, and now to the explosion of water within a solid-wet hyrdate matrix. That *is* re-thinking basic ideas. Even with the breakthrough of exploding water in a hydrate there has been a major rethink. Originally – in early summer of 2014 if I recall – the idea was that the energy of the explosion’s moving plasma could be harvested (via magneto-electrical mechanism). But within a short period of time Dr. Mills changed his tune: upon analysis it was realized that by far most of the power was in the light emitted rather than moving plasma. It was an explosion of light much more than an explosion of matter. I distinctly recall him announcing in his Yahoo Group that the energy of the explosion would be harvested by solar collectors. Subscribers (like myself) were stunned, and frankly, went rather silent. How on earth could this work? Since then we have recovered and wait for it to unfold. Perhaps one month ago Dr Mills announced that Blacklight had achieved a type of hydrate which required much less water to achieve the same power yield.

            Mills said just today on the group, in response to the Facebook entry regarding the delay:

            “BLP and our [outside] engineering firm are building a remarkable machine. I’m sure that the world will be impressed when it is done.”

            How long has Rossi been working on the Ecat? Much longer. These things take time.

          • Asterix

            Has Rossi been working on the e-cat for 16 years? Mills has been working on his hydrino boxes for at least that long.

          • Mark Underwood

            Come now. This hydrino box is an entirely different methodology to what was attempted previously.

            Cold fusion was first announced about 26 years ago. Rossi has been working on the e-cat, a particular way of producing cold fusion, for at least 4 years.

            Similarly Hydrino was first announced about 24 years ago. Mills has been working on the SunCell, a particular way of producing hydrino, for just a year.

          • mike

            I know Mills was harsh toward Rossi. But they are both doing great things. I think their may be more than one way to produce great amounts of controllable energy. We should stop comparing them til we know more. I support them both in spirit.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            The ecat has been in production much longer than 16 years and even the Pons/Fleischmann discovery in 1989 was the result of long term research and understandings.

            LENR research WORLDWIDE was born with that 1989 announcement. So we are looking at MINIMUM 25 years it has been ongoing.

            Do not forget Rossi did not even originate the Nickel/Hydrogen LENR process as he was building his concepts on the back of Piantelli who had earlier researched this with Focardi whom Rossi hired probably as much to pick his brain as to verify the process and examine dangers.

            So 16 years of research is nothing. There is a mark Underwood comment here that is noteworthy about timelines concerning BLP and they are in a steady and logical pace. The suncell approach is less than a year old but sprung from their earlier work.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Thanks for sharing that last quote. I did not realize he was still optimistic and that was distressing. Your entire comment should be made into an article here imho. I would rather the BLP device than the ecat, but will be happy if either goes mainstream.

            The day either is in The Journal Nature in a positive glow out comes the champagne.

          • Mills has been working on a product much longer than Rossi. He’s been making claims he was months away since 1999. And then he said “Rossi is not very credible”. If he just kept to his own work that would be one thing, but a statement like that makes him into a pure hypocrite.

          • Mark Underwood

            I also wish Mills didn’t speak so badly of Rossi. Mills lazily just believes the bad press from the media. On top of that, intellectually he truly believes cold fusion is not possible. Anyway. When Rossi is proven correct I very much look forward to Dr. Mill’s reaction. And there better be some contriteness!

            Mills has been working on extracting power from hydrino formation since before 1999. And yes he has consistently been overly optimistic about how his new ideas for power generation would pan out.

            He’s done it all: aqueous heat energy, moving plasma (charge) energy, heat energy from dry powder, heat energy from a molten salt, and now light energy from exploding water in a conductive metal hydrate.

            He’s only been at his latest device – the Suncell – for about a year. This is very different from what he has attempted thus far and deserves more time.

            Within a year we will have a very good idea how both Rossi and Mills work pans out. Can’t wait.

            Mark

          • friendlyprogrammer

            The Suncell is obviously a direction the company has taken only within the past year, and watching the July 21st demonstration is important to any wishing to comment.

            Once these high brightness/heat low compression Plasma bursts were created by them (USING THE HYDRINO THEORY), then the possibilities to adapt this light to Solar PV cells seemed most prudent.

            I’d say this Plasma Burst is akin to discovering the right filament for the light bulb invention. They have a plausible direction that they have been at for less than a year.

          • It’s impossible to judge the energy contained in a bright flash from a video, and insufficient information is provided about I/O to do this by calculation, so even the first step – proving COP>1 – remains so far unproven. The flashgun on my camera can deliver a string of very bright plasma discharges using just 4×1.5V alkaline cells for power, but there was nothing on the box about overunity.

            The expensive looking kludge that Mills (with an obvious eye on his investors) has given the pretentious name ‘suncell’, would be lucky to last 10 minutes in operation — even assuming that some way could be found to reload the feed chain with fresh ‘fuel’. The only real question is what would kill it first – spatter and vapour deposition on the optics, flying sparks and debris in the feed mechanism, or general overheating, particularly in the photovoltaics.

            If Mills would just focus on step 1 and show conclusively that more energy is being produced in his mini-explosions than is being consumed to create them, then at least there might be some basis for hoping that one day he might be able to devise a workable power plant based on his theories. On the evidence so far though, this doesn’t seem too likley.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            So… You’re saying they’ve been trying for almost a year now and should just give up?

            The Mark Underwood timeline mentioned below is what we’ve seen from BLP so far. In fairness; an invention that could easily replace the fuel source for EVERYTHING on the planet with ZERO EMISSIONS should deserve at least a year and a half for R&D. It would prolong millions of lives and provide desalination and cheap food to starving nations as a bonus. Not to mention everything from your 60″ television to your paper towels will be able to sell for less than half of their current worth once manufacturers, shipping venues, and stores pass on their energy savings to other manufacturers and stores, prompting an economic upturn like never before.

            Should the Wright brothers have given up after a year?

            Should Tesla have given up on AC power after a year?

            Should Ford have given up on car designs while he was still on model “S”?

            Name ONE industry or people that will not be drastically improved after this invention is realized if it is real.

            You want Mills to concentrate on step one. He is. His concern is the Plasma ignition.

            Mark Underwood says everything best below. This is simply a logical progression of research.

    • Guru

      Every manequin, who is driving BMW X5 and is not capable for 16 years to produce whatever tangible and burn 50+ mega USD is in my eyes … yes, manequin.

      • Anon2012_2014

        No, Mills drives a Porsche Cayenne with BLP vanity plates. Enough said. Optics is everything.

  • Daniel Maris

    I say let’s stop now.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      Indeed. At least for myself, the question is rhetorical.

  • builditnow

    Blacklight gets a low credibility rating from me.
    Just a personal opinion from personal observation.
    Having watched a couple of Blacklight’s video’s, I observe a considerable potential for Mills to have surrounded himself with “Yes Men”. It seems that there could be little room for a personal opinion at Blacklight. Because of Mill’s behavior I observe, I’ve rated Blacklight as having a 1% chance, from my viewpoint, of even having anything at all. Then a much smaller chance of creating something real.
    Too much blase, off handed, ego from Mills.
    I’m not expecting Mills to change.
    I’ll look again when has a self running machine with no connections to external power sources and, making way more power than could be explained via chemical reactions.

  • Mark

    What is wrong with people? Why does everybody have to shoot off their mouths before they are ready to show results. This really pisses me off. Steorn said they were ready to run their Orbo in a museum in 2007, I think. Then, in 2014, they said that 2014 was going to be the year that 2007 should have been. Rossi was also talking about his reactor for the past couple of years, and we just found out, not long ago, that he was not anywhere near as far along as he led us to believe, even to the point of turning down customers, and dragging this on longer than many thought it would drag on. HopeGirl and her crew were supposed to have their “feminine energy powered” QEG (which was invented by a man…) self-looped last year. Now we have Blacklight saying – surprise surprise – that their demonstration is going to take longer than previously thought. Why can’t people just shut their mouths until they’re ready to go to prime time? Why is that so difficult? All I have to say it that that dude building that warp drive in his garage had better not call the media organizations until he is at LEAST 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain that he can make his drone levitate using the space warp technology.

    • NCY

      Because Mills gives a bad name to real tech like LENR. I don’t know how many times I’ve had it brought up that IH was probably just another ‘tax haven company’ like Blacklight power, despite the fact that LENR is well supported empirically, while ‘hydrino theory’ is a complete and utter fantasy.

      • Mark

        Huh? Did I miss something. I don’t see why the comment directly above is a response to mine. I don’t see how it has anything to do with my main comment. I think I’m missing a piece of the puzzle, here. Ether that or somebody didn’t read my comment carefully enough…or maybe a little of both. I dunno…

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Agreed, but one should also remember that Mills has tried to actively distance himself from LENR.

  • Only opinion I follow is the money and he has been able to garner a lot of it. So until people stop giving him money I will stop believing Blacklight is viable.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      Mills works a system where energy companies can get tax breaks by investing in ‘alternative’ energy technology. These companies don’t expect any money back from Mills, because they already made it back, and more from the taxes saved.
      The fact that mills knows how to work this system to his advantage does not give any evidence to support his wild and baseless claims.
      If he ha something, then it is almost certainly a LENR device, and his obsession with ‘hydrino’ theory just shows that he is incompetent in the extreme to be in control of this much funding that could be far better spent.

      • deleo77

        I think you are alluding to part of the problem which is that the LENR folks hate Hydrino theory and the Hydrino crowd (especially Mills) hates LENR. Mills at this point almost refuses to even discuss the possibility of LENR (he says it’s impossible, almost sounding like the established physics community), while you have comments here suggesting that Hydrinos are impossible. There are just a few of us who think that Mills and Rossi are on to the same thing. Just don’t tell either one of them that.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I have sometimes seen a bit similar pattern in space business. Initially, let’s say agency X has a large contractor Y, and the relationship has existed for decades. X funds new tech Z which might be used to partially replace Y. If X thinks Z is not viable, they just fund it. If Z might be viable, X also funds it, but sets goals and time frames that are impossible to meet. In both cases the development or Z fails. Despite failure, all partners win: X has their next year’s budget accepted because they can tell a heroic new tech pioneering story to politicians, Y retains their old business, and Z gets their share of R&D money. Everyone also did the right thing: X just set strict goals to look hard after taxpayer money and Y and Z just developed their own techs. No secret cabinet meetings took place. To treat companies equally, X remembers to give next year’s R&D grant to Y.

  • Only opinion I follow is the money and he has been able to garner a lot of it. So until people stop giving him money I will stop believing Blacklight is viable.

    • NCY

      Mills works a system where energy companies can get tax breaks by investing in ‘alternative’ energy technology. These companies don’t expect any money back from Mills, because they already made it back, and more from the taxes saved.
      The fact that mills knows how to work this system to his advantage does not give any evidence to support his wild and baseless claims.
      If he ha something, then it is almost certainly a LENR device, and his obsession with ‘hydrino’ theory just shows that he is incompetent in the extreme to be in control of this much funding that could be far better spent.

      • deleo77

        I think you are alluding to part of the problem which is that the LENR folks hate Hydrino theory and the Hydrino crowd (especially Mills) hates LENR. Mills at this point almost refuses to even discuss the possibility of LENR (he says it’s impossible, almost sounding like the established physics community), while you have comments here suggesting that Hydrinos are impossible. There are just a few of us who think that Mills and Rossi are on to the same thing. Just don’t tell either one of them that.

        • Mark Underwood

          Mills in the very early years originally believed that hydrino facilitated LENR. But now, as you say, he is dead set against LENR occurring, citing the supposedly impenetrable coulomb barrier. I wish he wasn’t so dogmatic on this issue and had more appreciation of Rossi.

          With substantial nuclear transmutation seen in the Lugano experiment, how specifically do you think that Mills and Rossi are on to the same thing?

          • deleo77

            Great point about transmutation. I guess I still think it all starts and ends with hydrogen. But your comment is a good one.

        • Mark

          Wait…I thought that Mills said that cold fusion is real, but it only happens rarely, and that the hydrino production is what is causing most of the heat in these kinds of reactions. That’s why he claimed that he hates to call it “cold fusion” – not because cold fusion doesn’t happen, but because it is only producing a small part of the heat while the hydrino production is causing most of the heat. My memory sucks, so I might be getting some stuff mixed up…

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I have sometimes seen a bit similar pattern in space business. Initially, let’s say agency X has a large contractor Y, and the relationship has existed for decades. X funds new tech Z which might be used to partially replace Y. If X thinks Z is not viable, they just fund it. If Z might be viable, X also funds it, but sets goals and time frames that are impossible to meet. In both cases the development or Z fails. Despite failure, all partners win: X has their next year’s budget accepted because they can tell a heroic new tech pioneering story to politicians, Y retains their old business, and Z gets their share of R&D money. Everyone also did the right thing: X just set strict goals to look hard after taxpayer money and Y and Z just developed their own techs. No secret cabinet meetings took place. To treat companies equally, X remembers to give next year’s R&D grant to Y.

  • Anon2012_2014

    No, Mills drives a Porsche Cayenne with BLP vanity plates. Enough said. Optics is everything.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I find the amount of hate concerning timelines of BLP a bit annoying. Research by iits very nature is a process of trials, errors, and can encompass direction and focus changes throughout the process. Magic is currently not part of their strategy.

    Anybody who wants to spend a few hours watching their July 21st Demo should concede the idea is novel enough to warrant R&D expenditures a dozen times the $80 million already raised.

    Would we rather this avenue of possibility be ignored? Would you rather they just throw in the towel and forget about trying?

    If this takes another 75 years and BLP has a third generation continuing the research and it does succeed, then it would still be miraculous enough to warrant movies of hope and inspiration.

    If it does not succeed then there are a dozen things we know do not work.

    Who cares if R.Mill’s keeps redesigning his goals? He has based his research on the existence of a Hydrino which does seem to have evidence supporting it (radio waves from space, etc.). Perhaps if a few scientists also approached energy development with the idea of a Hydrino then he would not need to go it alone and explore every avenue himself.

    Mills has switched direction several times, and his current project direction seems like a viable concept. I think it would be foolish to ignore the possibilities more than I support the ideas of hate in these comments.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      no… just no… R.Mills is everything wrong with ‘free energy devices’. He makes money by working a system where large energy companies can actually save money by ‘investing’ (read: throwing their money away) in his “alternative” energy research.

      Aside from his ability to work this system to create millions in wealth for himself, he is completely talentless, and either an outright fraud, completely deluded, or incredibly incompetent (in order of decreasing likelihood).

      LENR at least takes place in a relatively unexplored corner of science (charged and excited metal lattices loaded with hydrogen), where the interactions of subatomic particles are not completely understood. So it is reasonable to assume that novel interactions here could be overlooked.

      Mills attempts to completely reinvent the physics of atoms with comparatively no knowledge whatsoever in the subject, makes claims that are either completely baseless, or misrepresents the facts with reckless abandon.

      The ‘Hydrino’ theory has NO evidence for it, period.

      Mills changing his story at every turn is just icing on the cake, not the meat of the argument about why he deserves no further discussion from me.

      • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

        Being a medical doctor does not make you talented at making an energy producing device. As i stated previously, stop making claims you can’t deliver on. the ‘true believers on here drive me nuts. you don’t need to make me believe, you need to CONVINCE ME… with evidence… there is no evidence for hydrino theory except a few people saying… ‘maybe’ or ‘who knows’.
        Belief has no place in science, if stated it before and ill state it again… the evidence for LENR is irrefutably strong. Randal mills has little if any strong evidence except conjecture, claims and hearsay.

        • friendlyprogrammer

          You say, ” you need to CONVINCE ME… with evidence”

          I would argue that everyone literate should investigate science on their own when it comes to Research/fringe elements.

          Your belief is valid for your judgement.

          Perhaps I am better informed on his proposals or my education is better at interpreting it. Then again maybe I am wrong and he is a fraud.

          I cannot for a minute think Mills has forfeited a career where he could make millions simply by being a Doctor, in order to dupe his shareholders. This seems to make sense to you and I shall not question it. You are entitled to your own beliefs.

          Fringe science by definition is R&D not yet peer reviewed so if you want evidence then you will need to wait a few years before even LENR is accepted by the mainstream Journals such as Nature.

          If you are waiting for LENR proof to be in your local library then you will be waiting even longer.

          So it boils down to whether Mills is lying or truthful. If he is truthful then the spark he is creating is already proof enough that every hydrogen atom still has energy left to give.

          If he is lying then he is creating the spark using other methods despite scrutiny and verifications.

          I think it makes sense that having the ability to earn over $2000/week in any city in the world removes motivation to commit financial fraud. Again you are entitle to believe the opposite, but I seriously question your judgement abilities in this case.

          Belief has no place in science? Then why are there so many scientists being funded to do research into the unknown?

          Scientists searching a Vietnamese Jungle for plants with unique properties believe and hope they are going to find something wonderful. They are funded by pharmaceutical corporations that also believe there is some value to it.

          Beliefs are integral to science. Bohr believed that if nobody looked at the moon it would cease to exist, while Einstein and Schrodinger ridiculed that belief leading to Scrodingers cat in box experiment..

          Interpretations of Quantum mechanics is another way of saying belief. Some believe in Many worlds interpretations, while others believe in The Copenhagen Interpretations, etc.

          I have “Believed” in Rossi since 2011. That had to do with character of the professors involved (Focardi, etc.) as much as the low rational for fraud. i.e. why would he immigrate to the US where anti fraud laws are the most stringent, or if his goal was only money he could have retired on a beach when PetrolDragon was worth $30 million.

          Belief is an educated guess for most of us. I am a Soil Engineer so I at least have a background in sciences and prefer chemistry over physics, but they are related in many facets.

          So it is educated guess (aka belief) via educated guess here in the comments.

          If Mills flash is real then he has proven Hydrino Theory and has a decent looking prototype. If it is fake then that’s just weird because he could legitimately make many millions being a Doctor, and it also defies the logic of all the investors whom likely want some return on their millions spent. Thirdly it would also make us wonder how the verifications he has paid for have returned so much in favor of Hydrino’s as a reality.

          If you want proof then go to a library 20 years from now. If you want to explore fringe science then you are on your own.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            If Mills flash is real he has not proven hydrino theory, but rather proven that ‘something’ odd is going on. His experiments indicate ‘something’ is going on, but the hydrino theory to back it up is rather sparse and ad hoc as I have seen so far (please link me if you think I’ve missed something).
            His insistence that hydrinos are definitely the source of what is occurring seems unfounded. Has he even tried looking for helium as a product? If he is right about the reactions in his device the hydrogen is going somewhere, considering that we also have decades of LENR research showing that H+H and D+D to He reactions occur in solid metal fuel, you’d think that occams razor would say to look at this first (one explanation rather than two separate ones) rather than trying to reinvent physics and make a product (hydrinos) that can’t be found or analysed.

          • Joseph Martin

            The new “large light bulb” is that answer. They got it.

            In two years this will be the rage. Oil will be only needed for chemicals and plastics. Thank God.

      • Sanjeev

        The ‘Hydrino’ theory has NO evidence for it, period.

        Actually, Nicholas… the Hydrino has been experimentally observed by independent testers. Its not merely a theory.
        You need to dig into BLP’s website to find that report. It shows a very strange thing – spectral lines for hydrino !
        Mills is not alone in theorizing hydrinos, there are some more. Its called a “Compact Object”. Compact because of the very closely fitted electron(s) near the nucleus. I know nothing more and I’m no expert on the hydrino, but I’m very surprised that the community of physicists did not quickly jump on it to verify or debunk it. Its a revolutionary finding and needs thorough experimentation to confirm, but I see pin drop silence.

        • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

          links please.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            The fact is… IF he has something… it is incredibly stupid for him to keep promising things he has no hope of delivering, Rossi learned this the hard way as well.
            It is important not to equate ‘MD from Harvard’ with ‘therefore reliable’, this is not overly helpful. also the idea that he ‘could make plenty of money being a doctor instead, is somewhat untenable. Being a doctor is hard, largely thankless, and extremely stressful work, and Mills has made millions with Blacklight power on a project that is quite the opposite (with dedicated fans, playing with fun and exciting stuff).
            I apologise for stating that fraud was the most likely, as I don’t have and have not read all of the material to have solid evidence to support this, however, I stand by that at the very least, he is incredibly incompetent to have been so sure to have a viable product in the ‘next few months or years’ promised it, and then failed to deliver it over and over.

            I’d like to hear more solid scientific debate, whether peer reviewed or not, and I’ll read any links you send me, however I haven’t seen anything
            I admit that I have not been able to find some of the papers that you allude to, and i would be interested in reading them. So far, all I’ve seen are vague claims that ‘hydrino’ theory COULD help explain known gaps in the standard model.
            Like i said before, IF he has something, his insistence on hydrinos at the expense of anything else is ridiculous.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            All of the reports listed at [http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/] seem to take mills’ hydrino theory at face value, or else suggest that ‘some novel nuclear reaction’ is taking place. while flashy, most of these reports did take place at BLP own labs, although several took place in independent locations. Whether these professionals were paid for their services for making these documents and evaluations is not stated, which is odd, but doesn’t necessarily mean anything untoward is occurring.
            Overall the evidence seems ok that he might have *something* but as to his hydrino theory, or his ability to produce anything useful despite repeated claims of impending commercialisation, the evidence seems doubtful.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            @ Nicholas,

            The “proof” is in the pudding. Everything will play out and we won’t know the answer for years. Mills alos has a long list of other inventions he has built using his model of physics.
            Such as…
            “Dr. Mills has received patents or filed patent
            applications in the following areas: (1) Millsian computational
            chemical design technology based on Classical Physics (CP), a
            revolutionary approach to solving atomic and molecular structures; (2)
            magnetic resonance imaging; (3) Mossbauer cancer therapy (Nature,
            Hyperfine Interactions); (4) Luminide class of drug delivery molecules;
            (5) genomic sequencing method, and (6) artificial intelligence.”

            from
            http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=62446989&privcapId=61802124

            BLP is alleging that these sparks are caused by Hydrogen collapsing into its true ground state (aka Hydrino). The Plasma flashes were so blinding in nature you cannot even gleen how bright using cameras and viewing screens. The idea is to have the flashes repeat in as quick a manner as can be developed to essentially make a small counter top sized artificial sun and capture the energy directly using photovoltaic cells and output would be purely electrical and heat with no steam

            here…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuzlyu4czYs

            This was a new direction they had to examine after they began producing such bright flashes.

            If nothing else the idea is novel, and if you watch the July 21 demo (including verification) the idea seems feasible.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuoMzm2HNE

            Again… You are entitled to your view. I’ve explained some of my rational for doubting scam scenarios.

            Photovoltaics has advanced during the years and work perfectly with this invention (if true).

            I watched the entire two part demonstration the day after this because there was keen interest.

            Many people are mad because they keep switching research directions, and Mills is bad at predicting timelines.

            (You can see the “invention” in latest form at 1:50:00)

            Previously he was using this method…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1iqa0dSJO0

            These are fun videos and the concept is viable if these flashes are not a scam as you have implied.

            All his validators would also need to be scammers along with all staff in the videos. Possible, but not probable imho.

      • GreenWin

        Last week I commented on Always Open re Dr. Kroesen’s replication of Mills hydrino experiments:

        https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2t1TWkOVtG9VDF3NlpxTXNkRW8/view?usp=sharing

        And yet very few people, scientists, university labs have ever bothered
        to repeat these experiments and replications. This is hard evidence
        that Dr. Mills’ hydrino theory is accurate in its predicative ability.
        The work has occurred at the Technical University of Eindhoven –


        In 2003 a European Commission report ranked TU/e at third place among
        all European research universities (after Cambridge and Oxford and at
        equal rank with TU Munich), thus making it the highest ranked Technical
        University in Europe.”

        I remain convinced that Dr. Mills,
        following Pons & Fleischmann is the father of “cold fusion” and that
        the theory of atomic hydrogen compressed to a resonant low energy state
        is a central factor. But it is curious how BLP has remained intact with commercial products. Maybe he sells designs for non-commercial products to people who want to keep this tech classified? Nah…

        • GreenWin

          CORRECTION: BLP has remained intact without commercial products.

    • Sanjeev

      I must agree. Its too early to throw the baby with the bathwater.
      BLP is slow and erratic, and there are more claims than useful prototypes, but lets give them a benefit of doubt.
      I was very convinced that BLP is a scam, but nowadays I’m on fence. Its wise to adopt a neutral viewpoint with a pinch of hope. (Unless you are an investor and spending sleepless nights because Mills has your $million 🙂 )

    • It isn’t hatred Friendly, it’s just extremely frustrating listening to Mills’ pure hypocrisy and lack of humility. I’m infuriated with Mills because he trashed Rossi, has taken millions in investment $ and predicted Rossi was not going to produce what he claimed in his timeline. On top of that he called us all a cult following. It would be great if he does come up with something, but Rossi’s latest photo’s make his device look like a popcorn machine.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Any scientist with credibility issues must distance themselves from Rossi even if they secretly adored him and had signed Rossi posters on his ceiling. The reverse is also true.

        I will bet many will examine the Hydrino theory while attempting to explain LENR.

        I’d rather choose the popcorn machine if I could bring either to fruition as it outputs electricity.

        Mills may not be the greatest at creating realistic timelines, but his heart is in the right place. I’d be willing to think his machine is possibly heading to a dead end, but I’d find it hard to believe he is intentionally duping people.

        If his actions are honest then he is leading a noble life dedicated to mankind which should garner more pleasantness than he is receiving.

        • Maybe that’s the difference Friendly, I’m not convinced his heart is in the right place. Distancing himself from Rossi is one thing saying Rossi is not credible is another.
          Mills has been promising a product within a year multiple times since 1999 and collecting millions of investment $ along the way. Big red flag.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I find the amount of hate concerning timelines of BLP a bit annoying. Research by iits very nature is a process of trials, errors, and can encompass direction and focus changes throughout the process. Magic is currently not part of their strategy.

    Anybody who wants to spend a few hours watching their July 21st Demo should concede the idea is novel enough to warrant R&D expenditures a dozen times the $80 million already raised.

    Would we rather this avenue of possibility be ignored? Would you rather they just throw in the towel and forget about trying?

    If this takes another 75 years and BLP has a third generation continuing the research and it does succeed, then it would still be miraculous enough to warrant movies of hope and inspiration.

    If it does not succeed then there are a dozen things we know do not work.

    Who cares if R.Mill’s keeps redesigning his goals? He has based his research on the existence of a Hydrino which does seem to have evidence supporting it (radio waves from space, etc.). Perhaps if a few scientists also approached energy development with the idea of a Hydrino then he would not need to go it alone and explore every avenue himself.

    Mills has switched direction several times, and his current project direction seems like a viable concept. I think it would be foolish to ignore the possibilities more than I support the ideas of hate in these comments.

    • NCY

      no… just no… R.Mills is everything wrong with ‘free energy devices’. He makes money by working a system where large energy companies can actually save money by ‘investing’ (read: throwing their money away) in his “alternative” energy research.

      Aside from his ability to work this system to create millions in wealth for himself, he is completely talentless, and either an outright fraud, completely deluded, or incredibly incompetent (in order of decreasing likelihood).

      LENR at least takes place in a relatively unexplored corner of science (charged and excited metal lattices loaded with hydrogen), where the interactions of subatomic particles are not completely understood. So it is reasonable to assume that novel interactions here could be overlooked.

      Mills attempts to completely reinvent the physics of atoms with comparatively no knowledge whatsoever in the subject, makes claims that are either completely baseless, or misrepresents the facts with reckless abandon.

      The ‘Hydrino’ theory has NO evidence for it, period.

      Mills changing his story at every turn is just icing on the cake, not the meat of the argument about why he deserves no further discussion from me.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        @ Nicholas,

        You say, “side from his ability to work this system to create millions in wealth
        for himself, he is completely talentless, and either an outright fraud,
        completely deluded, or incredibly incompetent (in order of decreasing
        likelihood).”

        Talentless? He is a Harvard Educated Medical Doctor so unless the abilitity to save lives is not considered a talent then maybe look at his degree in Chemistry or examine his graduate work study of Electrical Engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

        An average Doctor earns $250 000/year. A Harvard Educated Doctor earns double that on average.

        Can you move to any city in the country and earn $500 000 a year. It is likely Doctor Mills could.

        Talentless?

        He graduated in the top 10% of his classes (summa cum laude)

        He also earned the honor of being Phi Beta Kappa, which is an honor bestowed upon those who contribute to academic excellence.

        Maybe Phi Beta Kappa’s are all talentless, but it is doubtful any of them are.

        Talentless?

        Your strongest accusation is that he is a fraud, as you listed them in order of likelihood. Had he simply worked as a Doctor he would have earned between $6 000 000 (average Doctor pay) or $12 000 000 (Average Harvard Doctor Pay) during the time he has been running BLP.

        Yet your claim is that he is motivated financially. It seems far fetched especially if you know that most investors have access to the books of these ventures and would recognize fraudulent activity.

        It is also known he has raised over $80 000 000. If the goal was to scam then why is he still there everyday. Certainly $80 000 000 would be enough to buy a small sports franchise and live in Fiji with a Harem, yacht, and a few nice cars.

        You also say, “The ‘Hydrino’ theory has NO evidence for it, period”

        Neither does the ecat if we are discussing peer reviewed journals. We could list hundreds of R&D projects that are not current science, or they would not be R&D.

        BLP has had a strong list of verifications over the years.
        http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/

        The Andrea Rossi ecat has progressed in logical directions. For instance at one time Rossi could not maintain the reaction for over 18 hours, and now they need to shut it down after months of continuous operation. BLP product has also changed in logical directions despite your beliefs.

        Another theorist has joined the debate.

        “Jan Naudts of the University of Antwerp argued that the Klein-Gordon equation of relativistic quantum mechanics does indeed permit the existence of a low-lying hydrino state, although he stops
        short of claiming that hydrino states really exist (physics/0507193). “In physics the experiment decides,” says Naudts. “Eitherthe hydrino exists, in which case we have to accept a small correction to the textbooks on quantum mechanics, or it does not exist, in which case we have to find better arguments to explain why it does not exist.”
        Naudts says that results of Mills and co-workers have recently been
        confirmed by a group at the Technical University of Eindhoven. “Nothing is decided yet, but I think it is time to fill the holes in our theoretical understanding of the hydrogen atom.”
        from
        http://philosophyofscienceportal.blogspot.ca/2008/05/hdrinosnew-power-source.html

        Which is common type “proof” not yet accepted by mainstream science.

        This website also carries stories about the soft X-Rays being received from space. Their energy is predicted and seems to help confirm the Hydrino Theory although also not accepted by mainstream.

        X-rays from space?
        http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/12/dark-matter-physics-hydrinos-all-want.html

        So saying no “proof” is accurate if you want to judge by your old college textbooks, but if you are commenting on Fringe Science then common sense is required in viewing the evidence that does exist.

        You say,
        “Mills changing his story at every turn is just icing on the cake, not
        the meat of the argument about why he deserves no further discussion
        from me.”

        I have already said that R&D is not always linear, but normally follows logical progressions.

        I’d wager you could not even describe the BLP power source as described. Your position that he is talentless, and likely a scammer seem absurd to me or anyone with common sense, unless you are completely unfamiliar with his invention.

        This invention.. not the same as his many patents for Imaging equipment and Cancer treatment protocals.

        Is it steam? Is it wind? Is it nuclear? Is it solar?

        Most regulars here could state these things by wrote, and most of us watched his July 21st demonstration where the research seems feasible if truthful. So if you think he is lying then yes, a scam scenario must be the case.

        Given his VAST education and induction into societies like Phi Beta Kappa the likelihood of lying seems unlikely.

        Incompetent I can buy into, but scamming not so much. This would mean he is being honest that this flash (brighter than cameras and screens can demonstrate) is a truth. Which in turn means he is following a logical progression.

        Of course Pathoskeptics will deny the entire possibilities, but I think most of the crowd here is of above average intelligence willing to observe all the facts before judgement.

        • NCY

          The fact is… IF he has something… it is incredibly stupid for him to keep promising things he has no hope of delivering, Rossi learned this the hard way as well.
          It is important not to equate ‘MD from Harvard’ with ‘therefore reliable’, this is not overly helpful. also the idea that he ‘could make plenty of money being a doctor instead, is somewhat untenable. Being a doctor is hard, largely thankless, and extremely stressful work, and Mills has made millions with Blacklight power on a project that is quite the opposite (with dedicated fans, playing with fun and exciting stuff).
          I apologise for stating that fraud was the most likely, as I don’t have and have not read all of the material to have solid evidence to support this, however, I stand by that at the very least, he is incredibly incompetent to have been so sure to have a viable product in the ‘next few months or years’ promised it, and then failed to deliver it over and over.

          I’d like to hear more solid scientific debate, whether peer reviewed or not, and I’ll read any links you send me, however I haven’t seen anything useful that supports hydrino theory so far.
          I admit that I have not been able to find some of the papers that you allude to, and i would be interested in reading them. So far, all I’ve seen are vague claims that ‘hydrino’ theory COULD help explain known gaps in the standard model.
          Like i said before, IF he has something, his insistence on hydrinos at the expense of anything else is ridiculous.
          I’ll happily eat my words if he can finally deliver something however.

          • NCY

            All of the reports listed at [http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/] seem to take mills’ hydrino theory at face value, or else suggest that ‘some novel nuclear reaction’ is taking place. while flashy, most of these reports did take place at BLP own labs, although several took place in independent locations. Whether these professionals were paid for their services for making these documents and evaluations is not stated, which is odd, but doesn’t necessarily mean anything untoward is occurring.
            Overall the evidence seems ok that he might have *something* but as to his hydrino theory, or his ability to produce anything useful despite repeated claims of impending commercialisation, the evidence seems doubtful.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            @ Nicholas,

            The “proof” is in the pudding. Everything will play out and we won’t know the answer for years. Mills alos has a long list of other inventions he has built using his model of physics.
            Such as…
            “Dr. Mills has received patents or filed patent
            applications in the following areas: (1) Millsian computational
            chemical design technology based on Classical Physics (CP), a
            revolutionary approach to solving atomic and molecular structures; (2)
            magnetic resonance imaging; (3) Mossbauer cancer therapy (Nature,
            Hyperfine Interactions); (4) Luminide class of drug delivery molecules;
            (5) genomic sequencing method, and (6) artificial intelligence.”

            from
            http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=62446989&privcapId=61802124

            BLP is alleging that these sparks are caused by Hydrogen collapsing into its true ground state (aka Hydrino). The Plasma flashes were so blinding in nature you cannot even gleen how bright using cameras and viewing screens. The idea is to have the flashes repeat in as quick a manner as can be developed to essentially make a small counter top sized artificial sun and capture the energy directly using photovoltaic cells and output would be purely electrical and heat with no steam

            here…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuzlyu4czYs

            This was a new direction they had to examine after they began producing such bright flashes.

            If nothing else the idea is novel, and if you watch the July 21 demo (including verification) the idea seems feasible.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuoMzm2HNE

            Again… You are entitled to your view. I’ve explained some of my rational for doubting scam scenarios.

            Photovoltaics has advanced during the years and work perfectly with this invention (if true).

            I watched the entire two part demonstration the day after this because there was keen interest.

            Many people are mad because they keep switching research directions, and Mills is bad at predicting timelines.

            (You can see the “invention” in latest form at 1:50:00)

            Previously he was using this method…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1iqa0dSJO0

            These are fun videos and the concept is viable if these flashes are not a scam as you have implied.

            All his validators would also need to be scammers along with all staff in the videos. Possible, but not probable imho.

          • I’ll add that Mills’ current focus on the SF-CIHT generator relies on the experimental finding that the bright flash exactly models the sun’s EM signature. That’s consistent with Mills’ proposal that hydrino reactions are responsible for the solar corona’s high temperature.

      • NCY

        Being a medical doctor does not make you talented at making an energy producing device. As i stated previously, stop making claims you can’t deliver on. the ‘true believers on here drive me nuts. you don’t need to make me believe, you need to CONVINCE ME… with evidence… there is no evidence for hydrino theory except a few people saying… ‘maybe’ or ‘who knows’.
        Belief has no place in science, if stated it before and ill state it again… the evidence for LENR is irrefutably strong. Randal mills has little if any strong evidence except conjecture, claims and hearsay.

        • Mark Underwood

          The fact appears to be that you are not looking for evidence. It is no wonder you can’t find it. Have you even looked at the dozens of published papers by Mills that, in their totality represents overwhelming evidence for hydrino? Have you investigated the Millsian software which correctly predicts molecular configurations and energies? Have you pondered how it is that Mills can correctly and easily calculate the ionization energies of the first twenty or so elements, when quantum mechanics has trouble doing it for helium? No, I didn’t think so.

          • NCY

            links please.

          • Check the publications menu. The validation reports for Mills’ direct-to-electricity CIHT fuel cell are good reading, and the SF-CIHT has demonstrated much more intense energy production.

            http://www.blacklightpower.com/publications/

          • NCY

            yeah I’ve looked at those, most are first party, and others seem to have been paid for, (yet oddly nowhere do the papers state where funding came from). not that I’m saying this definitely indicates fraud, not at all. in fact these papers indicate that he has ‘something’, however, without fail each of these papers takes at face value his Hydrino theory, doesn’t test that theory at all, and none of them point to his hydrino theory being the source of his extra energy.
            In fact id go so far as to imply that perhaps the ‘hydrino theory’ is a convenient cloak of invisibility. perhaps mills knows that his process is probably LENR in origin, but sticks to his hydrino theory both to avoid the negative connotations associated with Cold Fusion, and to avoid having to admit that his theory is bunk (which would be a giant blow to the company and its ability to gain funding).
            In Summary: the papers you reference above indicate that he probably has a device that produces more energy than is ‘chemically possible’, but none give any support to Hydrino theory over, say, LENR as an explanation of said excess energy.

        • friendlyprogrammer

          You say, ” you need to CONVINCE ME… with evidence”

          I would argue that everyone literate should investigate science on their own when it comes to Research/fringe elements.

          Your belief is valid for your judgement.

          Perhaps I am better informed on his proposals or my education is better at interpreting it. Then again maybe I am wrong and he is a fraud.

          I cannot for a minute think Mills has forfeited a career where he could make millions simply by being a Doctor, in order to dupe his shareholders. This seems to make sense to you and I shall not question it. You are entitled to your own beliefs.

          Fringe science by definition is R&D not yet peer reviewed so if you want evidence then you will need to wait a few years before even LENR is accepted by the mainstream Journals such as Nature.

          If you are waiting for LENR proof to be in your local library then you will be waiting even longer.

          So it boils down to whether Mills is lying or truthful. If he is truthful then the spark he is creating is already proof enough that every hydrogen atom still has energy left to give.

          If he is lying then he is creating the spark using other methods despite scrutiny and verifications.

          I think it makes sense that having the ability to earn over $2000/week in any city in the world removes motivation to commit financial fraud. Again you are entitle to believe the opposite, but I seriously question your judgement abilities in this case.

          Belief has no place in science? Then why are there so many scientists being funded to do research into the unknown?

          Scientists searching a Vietnamese Jungle for plants with unique properties believe and hope they are going to find something wonderful. They are funded by pharmaceutical corporations that also believe there is some value to it.

          Beliefs are integral to science. Bohr believed that if nobody looked at the moon it would cease to exist, while Einstein and Schrodinger ridiculed that belief leading to Scrodingers cat in box experiment..

          Interpretations of Quantum mechanics is another way of saying belief. Some believe in Many worlds interpretations, while others believe in The Copenhagen Interpretations, etc.

          I have “Believed” in Rossi since 2011. That had to do with character of the professors involved (Focardi, etc.) as much as the low rational for fraud. i.e. why would he immigrate to the US where anti fraud laws are the most stringent, or if his goal was only money he could have retired on a beach when PetrolDragon was worth $30 million.

          Belief is an educated guess for most of us. I am a Soil Engineer so I at least have a background in sciences and prefer chemistry over physics, but they are related in many facets.

          So it is educated guess (aka belief) via educated guess here in the comments.

          If Mills flash is real then he has proven Hydrino Theory and has a decent looking prototype. If it is fake then that’s just weird because he could legitimately make many millions being a Doctor, and it also defies the logic of all the investors whom likely want some return on their millions spent. Thirdly it would also make us wonder how the verifications he has paid for have returned so much in favor of Hydrino’s as a reality.

          If you want proof then go to a library 20 years from now. If you want to explore fringe science then you are on your own.

          You seem to be newer to the comments area so I’m guessing you are a recent conversion to LENR and are jumping on the bandwagon years later. The judgement of people such as Frank the creator of Ecatworld was that LENR seemed real enough for us back in 2011.

          Logical foresight is not something everyone has. We recognized LENR seemed real despite Rossi had previously been charged for fraud and has nowhere the kind of education Mills has. The “haters” against BLP remind me of the haters then, although all things Cold Fusion were berated in every venue then.

          • NCY

            If Mills flash is real he has not proven hydrino theory, but rather proven that ‘something’ odd is going on. His experiments indicate ‘something’ is going on, but the hydrino theory to back it up is rather sparse and ad hoc as I have seen so far (please link me if you think I’ve missed something).
            His insistence that hydrinos are definitely the source of what is occurring seems unfounded. Has he even tried looking for helium as a product? If he is right about the reactions in his device the hydrogen is going somewhere, considering that we also have decades of LENR research showing that H+H and D+D to He reactions occur in solid metal fuel, you’d think that occams razor would say to look at this first (one explanation rather than two separate ones) rather than trying to reinvent physics and make a product (hydrinos) that can’t be found or analysed.

      • Sanjeev

        The ‘Hydrino’ theory has NO evidence for it, period.

        Actually, Nicholas… the Hydrino has been experimentally observed by independent testers. Its not merely a theory.
        You need to dig into BLP’s website to find that report. It shows a very strange thing – spectral lines for hydrino !
        Mills is not alone in theorizing hydrinos, there are some more. Its called a “Compact Object”. Compact because of the very closely fitted electron(s) near the nucleus. I know nothing more and I’m no expert on the hydrino, but I’m very surprised that the community of physicists did not quickly jump on it to verify or debunk it. Its a revolutionary finding and needs thorough experimentation to confirm, but I see pin drop silence.

        • Mark Underwood

          Yes indeed there is silence. Mill’s classical theory is just too much of a departure for theoretical physicists. Mills does away with a core of quantum theory: the revered Schrodinger wave equation. Schrodinger himself said near the the end, regarding QM: “I don’t like it and I’m sorry I had anything to do with it”. Ironically, he himself may have embraced Mill’s classical, physical theory. Einstein and even Feynman originally tried to go the classical route and did not succeed. Mills has apparently succeeded. But because QM is now so ingrained and assumed essentially correct, and because Mills is not producing within academia, Mills gets the silent treatment.

          Eugene Mallove didn’t think big oil was hindering acceptance of new energy. To him the problem was with the government-academia funding complex.

          Since Rossi and most others in cold fusion seem to have little problem with QM, at least it is that much easier for them to have sympathizers in academia, although even that is rare.

          Early 2016 will put the heat on academia, because not only will there will be a positive energy audit result at the factory where Rossi’s e-cats are installed, but Mill’s SunCell prototype will (imo) be demoed about that time.

          Interesting times!

    • Sanjeev

      I must agree. Its too early to throw the baby with the bathwater.
      BLP is slow and erratic, and there are more claims than useful prototypes, but lets give them a benefit of doubt.
      I was very convinced that BLP is a scam, but nowadays I’m on fence. Its wise to adopt a neutral viewpoint with a pinch of hope. (Unless you are an investor and spending sleepless nights because Mills has your $million 🙂 )

    • It isn’t hatred Friendly, it’s just extremely frustrating listening to Mills’ pure hypocrisy and lack of humility. I’m infuriated with Mills because he trashed Rossi, has taken millions in investment $ and predicted Rossi was not going to produce what he claimed in his timeline. On top of that he called us all a cult following. It would be great if he does come up with something, but Rossi’s latest photo’s make his device look like a popcorn machine.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Any scientist with credibility issues must distance themselves from Rossi even if they secretly adored him and had signed Rossi posters on his ceiling. The reverse is also true.

        I will bet many will examine the Hydrino theory while attempting to explain LENR.

        I’d rather choose the popcorn machine if I could bring either to fruition as it outputs electricity.

        Mills may not be the greatest at creating realistic timelines, but his heart is in the right place. I’d be willing to think his machine is possibly heading to a dead end, but I’d find it hard to believe he is intentionally duping people.

        If his actions are honest then he is leading a noble life dedicated to mankind which should garner more pleasantness than he is receiving.

        • Maybe that’s the difference Friendly, I’m not convinced his heart is in the right place. Distancing himself from Rossi is one thing saying Rossi is not credible is another.
          Mills has been promising a product within a year multiple times since 1999 and collecting millions of investment $ along the way. Big red flag.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Countless Billions are invested in science research that promises results and then fails. Mainstream science still dictates that LENR is impossible if we look at what is printable in the Journal Nature. So Mills is not alone in saying Rossi is following a pipe dream . “Pipe ” dream get it. NARF… cuz the reactor is a pipe.

            I will never buy the concept Mills is scamming for money. He is obviously truly excited. His penchant for creating unreasonable timelines and false projections is annoying so I agree with that aspect, but I think he has a viable concept.

            I like to look at logical progressions when evaluating future tech, which this has an abundance of. I also look at the motivations of the inventor. If Mills was a Garage mechanic I would not even have watched his demonstrations, but he is a Harvard Medical Doctor with a Chemistry degree and who has studied Electrical Engineering at MIT. The fact that he belongs to the Phi Beta Kappa alumni of academic excellence and graduated summa cum laude (top 10% of his class) for chemistry is added bonus.

            Mills invention does seem feasible as a break out invention that could revolutionize the planet within a year should it be realized.

            He already has the invention as we have witnessed in his demonstration, unless his claim of the flash coming from Hydrogen to Hydrino reactions is a bold lie backed up by a dozen verifying high reputation facilities and everyone participating in his recent demo.

            One fact is truth
            If the Hydrino does NOT exist then Mills, his staff, and the many verifying institutions are lying. Instead I think Rossi and others should be looking for Hydrino proof as the mechanisms behind LENR.

            In other words I am 89% convinced the Hydrinoi must be real. Without the benefit of seeing it first hand we can only look at motivations and logic.

      • mike

        Well being a fan of Mills, I must say I can’t disagree with you. Well said.

  • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

    Because Mills gives a bad name to real tech like LENR. I don’t know how many times I’ve had it brought up that IH was probably just another ‘tax haven company’ like Blacklight power, despite the fact that LENR is well supported empirically, while ‘hydrino theory’ is a complete and utter fantasy.

    • Mark

      Huh? Did I miss something. I don’t see why the comment directly above is a response to mine. I don’t see how it has anything to do with my main comment. I think I’m missing a piece of the puzzle, here. Ether that or somebody didn’t read my comment carefully enough…or maybe a little of both. I dunno…

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Agreed, but one should also remember that Mills has tried to actively distance himself from LENR.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi is right, the important thing is the product…all else is chatter. Without a product, you have nothing.

    Joe Papp had a working over unity energy device a half century ago. The Papp engine was verified, certified, demoed, patented, and whatever else was necessary to give his investors a warm feeling but never placed his invention into production. Why, because Papp could not produce a product and he did not want to produce a product. Producing a product is far harder than producing a prototype. Most genius engineers don’t want to meet all the regulations and requirements necessary, endure all the heartache, feel all the pain necessary to get a product to a buyer.

    There are few Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in this world. Mills makes a good life tinkering with his prototypes and writing his theories. He cannot produce a product or down deep in his heart he does not want to be bothered with a product and so he joins the other chattereres as Rossi is apt to say.

    • deleo77

      BLP posted the message on Twitter a couple of days ago about the prototype being delayed. When I brought it up in the other forum Mills responded with the following:

      “BLP and our engineering firm are building a remarkable machine. I’m sure that the world will be impressed when it is done”.

      So while you may be right about everything up to last year, I do think things have changed. Mills and BLP latest designs are based on photo-voltaic cells and light. He raised $16MM soon after showing these designs to investors and then handed the designs off to a large engineering firm who will take it to the finish line. I agree that if the device had to be completely engineered and built out of BLP’s labs then perhaps we would have to wait forever to see something useful. But Mills was smart to hand his designs over to someone else this time around. I still think he may finally have figured it all out.

      • Axil Axil

        What Mills is doing now is about the same process that Joe Papp did. I worked on a Papp replication and without radioactive material, it was not possible to gather the electric currents needed to produce an over unity energy gain.

        As one who has gone through the mill, Mills might get close, but no over unity will be produced. Mills has too many inefficient processes in his design…solar cells being one.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      So, if Joe Pap didn’t want to produce his marvelous, transformation machine himself–worth trillions–was it beneath his dignity to sell he patent or a few million to, say, General Electric?

      • Axil Axil

        Maybe Papp was nuts and he did not like or trust people. Why make the lives of people easy when he had everything that a man could want thanks to his inverstors. .

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi is right, the important thing is the product…all else is chatter. Without a product, you have nothing.

    Joe Papp had a working over unity energy device a half century ago. The Papp engine was verified, certified, demoed, patented, and whatever else was necessary to give his investors a warm feeling but Papp never placed his invention into production. Why, because Papp could not produce a product and he did not want to produce a product. Producing a product is far harder than producing a prototype. Most genius engineers don’t want to meet all the regulations and requirements necessary, endure all the heartache, feel all the pain necessary to get a product to a buyer.

    There are few Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in this world. Mills makes a good life tinkering with his prototypes and writing his theories. He cannot produce a product or down deep in his heart he does not want to be bothered with a product and so he joins the other chattereres as Rossi is apt to say.

    • deleo77

      BLP posted the message on Twitter a couple of days ago about the prototype being delayed. When I brought it up in the other forum Mills responded with the following:

      “BLP and our engineering firm are building a remarkable machine. I’m sure that the world will be impressed when it is done”.

      So while you may be right about everything up to last year, I do think things have changed. Mills and BLP latest designs are based on photo-voltaic cells and light. He raised $16MM soon after showing these designs to investors and then handed the designs off to a large engineering firm who will take it to the finish line. I agree that if the device had to be completely engineered and built out of BLP’s labs then perhaps we would have to wait forever to see something useful. But Mills was smart to hand his designs over to someone else this time around. I still think he may finally have figured it all out.

      • Axil Axil

        What Mills is doing now is about the same process that Joe Papp did. I worked on a Papp replication and without radioactive material, it was not possible to gather the electric currents needed to produce an over unity energy gain.

        As one who has gone through the mill, Mills might get close, but no over unity will be produced. Mills has too many inefficient processes in his design…solar cells being one.

        • mike

          How are the solar cells inefficient? the new photovoltaic tech can harness the intensity of 1000 suns. Unfortunately we on earth have only one. But if his plasma burst can create the intensity of 10,000 suns, that is more than efficient with a potential to be 10 times more efficient than that. I sense an agenda because i think you should know being who you are. I am confident he doesn’t lie seeing what he has already achieved in his life. He is without a doubt brilliant and legit. His critics combined have not achieved what he has in his already successful life.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      So, if Joe Pap didn’t want to produce his marvelous, transformation machine himself–worth trillions–was it beneath his dignity to sell he patent or a few million to, say, General Electric?

      • Axil Axil

        Maybe Papp was nuts and he did not like or trust people. Why make the lives of people easy when he had everything that a man could want thanks to his inverstors. .

    • mike

      Mills has made a good life inventing successful devices. Like MSI, it’s like a super MRI. To imply that it is all he has ever done and all he ever did in his lifetime is unjustified to put it mildly. I believe he will have been closest to the right theory for the new energy when it is all said and done, understanding that I may be too optimistic. Hope I am right. After all I trust Rossi and he has a controversial past.

  • deleo77

    Great point about transmutation. I guess I still think it all starts and ends with hydrogen. But your comment is a good one.

  • Sanjeev

    Randy Mills Says Great Things Are Coming
    http://newenergytreasure.com/2015/02/26/randy-mills-says-great-things-are-coming/

    I hesitate to make a hard opinion on BLP. Its delayed a lot, but not dead yet !
    Who knows, something may result from their efforts, even if they seem to be inefficient and unbelievable.

  • Sanjeev

    Randy Mills Says Great Things Are Coming
    http://newenergytreasure.com/2015/02/26/randy-mills-says-great-things-are-coming/

    I hesitate to make a hard opinion on BLP. Its delayed a lot, but not dead yet !
    Who knows, something may result from their efforts, even if they seem to be inefficient and unbelievable.

  • Daniel Maris

    The sooner we clear BLP out of the path of LENR, the better.

  • Wait, the sky isn’t falling?

  • Wait, the sky isn’t falling?

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Thanks for sharing that last quote. I did not realize he was still optimistic and that was distressing. Your entire comment should be made into an article here imho. I would rather the BLP device than the ecat, but will be happy if either goes mainstream.

    The day either is in The Journal Nature in a positive glow out comes the champagne.

  • GreenWin

    Last week I commented on Always Open re Dr. Kroesen’s replication of Mills hydrino experiments:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2t1TWkOVtG9VDF3NlpxTXNkRW8/view?usp=sharing

    And yet very few people, scientists, university labs have ever bothered
    to repeat these experiments and replications. This is hard evidence
    that Dr. Mills’ hydrino theory is accurate in its predicative ability.
    The work has occurred at the Technical University of Eindhoven –


    In 2003 a European Commission report ranked TU/e at third place among
    all European research universities (after Cambridge and Oxford and at
    equal rank with TU Munich), thus making it the highest ranked Technical
    University in Europe.”

    I remain convinced that Dr. Mills,
    following Pons & Fleischmann is the father of “cold fusion” and that
    the theory of atomic hydrogen compressed to a resonant low energy state
    is a central factor. But it is curious how BLP has remained intact with commercial products. Maybe he sells designs for non-commercial products to people who want to keep this tech classified? Nah…

    • GreenWin

      CORRECTION: BLP has remained intact without commercial products.

      • Mark

        There may be a conspiracy to delay and/or suppress at work. The Solar Hydrogen Trends dudes recently said something to the effect of it being, in their opinion, irresponsible to flood the market with their new technology too fast. Do they really believe that, or is a government conspiracy stopping them? Could the same thing, or a similar thing, be at work with Blacklight?

        • US_Citizen71

          With SHT it is more likely fraud prevents them from flooding the market at all than any type of conspiracy.

    • Mark Underwood

      *Excellent* paper, thanks. I think it was translated from Dutch or German. Very clear and understandable by the layperson. Yet the original was published I think at least 7 years ago. Things like this should have set the world of plasma physics, and quantum physics abuzz. Instead, almost dead silence.

      I think Dr. Mills is successful at raising investment year after year in part because he knows his work and can speak of it off the top of his head in a very convincing fashion.

  • comentor

    I was lucky enough to attend the july demo at the BLP labs. What struck me was the convincing tones of the defense contractor representative. He said that the military, specifically the air force, has been watching BLP closely, and will be the first in line when they have a product. I asked him if he thought that, from a national security point of view, the military will absorb all the production, leaving no units for civilian use. He dodged my question, responding with a description of how energy production is the military’s highest hourly operating cost.

    Seeing the live demo, what struck me as a major design hurdle, was the ability to keep the lense clean that separates the plasma production chamber from the solar collection unit. There is quite a bit of “spatter” from the reaction, and it will quickly cover and block the lense, stopping the light from reaching the pv’s. Keeping this lense clear will be a paramount concern. I did read somewhere that they have come up with a slurry that has a lower water content, but with the amount of energy that plasma releases, there is no way to stop the outward ejection of the slurry material. I have thought of an adaptation of an existing invention to keep the lense clear, and if I had the opportunity, would be glad to share with BLP. Being in the room and seeing the plasma created was a great experience, it really creates a unique sound.

    • Mark Underwood

      Thanks for that report. Assuming you have seen the video, would you say that the video properly conveys the light and sound of the metal-water hydrate explosions you witnessed, or does it fall short?

    • Joseph Martin

      The new “large light bulb” is that answer. They got it.

      In two years this will be the rage. Oil will be only needed for chemicals and plastics. Thank God.

  • US_Citizen71

    With SHT it is more likely fraud prevents them from flooding the market at all than any type of conspiracy.

  • Mills has been working on a product much longer than Rossi. He’s been making claims he was months away since 1999. And then he said “Rossi is not very credible”. If he just kept to his own work that would be one thing, but a statement like that makes him into a pure hypocrite.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    The ecat has been in production much longer than 16 years and even the Pons/Fleischmann discovery in 1989 was the result of long term research and understandings.

    LENR research WORLDWIDE was born with that 1989 announcement. So we are looking at MINIMUM 25 years it has been ongoing.

    Do not forget Rossi did not even originate the Nickel/Hydrogen LENR process as he was building his concepts on the back of Piantelli who had earlier researched this with Focardi whom Rossi hired probably as much to pick his brain as to verify the process and examine dangers.

    So 16 years of research is nothing. There is a mark Underwood comment here that is noteworthy about timelines concerning BLP and they are in a steady and logical pace. The suncell approach is less than a year old but sprung from their earlier work.

  • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

    yeah I’ve looked at those, most are first party, and others seem to have been paid for, (yet oddly nowhere do the papers state where funding came from). not that I’m saying this definitely indicates fraud, not at all. in fact these papers indicate that he has ‘something’, however, without fail each of these papers takes at face value his Hydrino theory, doesn’t test that theory at all, and none of them point to his hydrino theory being the source of his extra energy.
    In fact id go so far as to imply that perhaps the ‘hydrino theory’ is a convenient cloak of invisibility. perhaps mills knows that his process is probably LENR in origin, but sticks to his hydrino theory both to avoid the negative connotations associated with Cold Fusion, and to avoid having to admit that his theory is bunk (which would be a giant blow to the company and its ability to gain funding).
    In Summary: the papers you reference above indicate that he probably has a device that produces more energy than is ‘chemically possible’, but none give any support to Hydrino theory over, say, LENR as an explanation of said excess energy.

  • Dougie Bloggs

    One day they will have to answer to their foolish investors. I wonder what excuse they will give? “The dog ate the blue prints.”, “The government shut us down.”, “The power industries acted against us.” or maybe just smile and tell the truth eh screw em.

    • Joseph Martin

      You are wrong. I am sure they have it.

      Oil is on the way out, rather than be an idiot you should think about the potential, risk and massive changes to the economy.

      I just wonder if this is the same effect that Andrea Rossi is working on. Rossi will be releasing a report next month.

      I think BLP has an advantage over Rossi’s tech, but then again Rossi is not giving must information on his newest version.

  • enantiomer2000

    And to this day they still don’t have a working prototype… Perpetual hype??