Commercialization of Cold Fusion/LENR has Begun (Rossi Confirms Customer using E-Cat in Production)

Normally when Andrea Rossi talks about the 1 MW plant currently in production testing, he couches it in ‘results could be positive or negative’ terms, and talks about being hopeful and his team working well and working hard, but leaves room open for interpretation as to exactly what is going on, often saying he can’t give details until the current test run is over.

However, today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, he gave some straight answers to some direct questions which, if taken at face value, mean that the commercialization of LENR/cold fusion is upon us.

JC Renoir posted these questions, and Rossi provided the answers.

Q: Can you say now if the 1 MW plant is working? A: Yes

Q: Is it already producing heat in the factory of the Customer? A: Yes

Q: Is the Customer making its production using the heat made by the 1 MW plant? A: Yes

These are unequivocal answers, and significant ones, I think. If the E-Cat is providing useful energy in the production process of a customer, then a milestone has been met. Using the E-Cat commercially has been Andrea Rossi’s goal from the very beginning of his work in the field. To have an interesting discovery without a practical application for it, is not terribly useful in terms of helping the human race.

As I have mentioned recently here, Andrea Rossi has developed a good track record over the years of delivering on what he says. I don’t expect everyone to take Rossi’s word about this, and we have precious few details about what production process is involved here, but personally, I have no problem accepting what he says here as being reliable, and therefore I say congratulations to Andrea Rossi!

  • Flo

    Things are moving so slow… unbelievable

    • Roland

      I would hazard a guess that you’ve never invented something and then attempted to produce a commercial product from that IP; this is actually going relatively well…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      In 2011 he a something that looked like a leg of lamb wrapped in aluminum foil. Now he has a functioning 1 MW plant doing real work in a factory.

    • You should have been around when Einstein was trying to prove the General Theory of Relativity, (11 years).

      • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

        25 years and counting bro. CF wins… oh wait, Continental Drift, 40 years+.

    • Omega Z

      We are entering the 5th year for a new technology never before having been brought to market. It took Apple 6 years to bring the 1st I-phone to market & 8 years for the I-Pad. Both developed from existing technology.

      Lonnie Johnson spent over 4 years getting the Super-Soaker to market. Really nothing more then a souped up water gun & water rocket(Retro 50’s) combo. Who knew that my brothers & I had a small fortune in our hands as kids.

  • Bob Matulis

    Great news and will be especially so when confirmed. By confirmed I mean tours being given to the functioning plant etc. Looking forward to more plants being produced. Thanks for reporting!

  • Nigel Appleton

    Next question – will the Customer have saved significant amounts of energy costs when the MegaCat has been running for a year?

    (Not to decry the achievement at all, but it has to be commercially viable and attractive)

    • Daniel Maris

      Well one step at a time. Let’s see if the customer thinks he’s got a genuine energy supply in the E Cat.

      We don’t yet know who the customer is.

      • Asterix

        I’d like to know what application this customer has for 100C heat. That’s not a high enough temperature for most industrial processes.

        • Daniel Maris

          Food processing would be perfect.

          • Omega Z

            Agreed. I posted this before that there are several national processors with plants in the vicinity. 100″C to 120’C is perfect for this process. Both canning & frozen foods.

          • Agaricus

            Or beer brewing…

        • Agaricus

          The output is steam, so 100C is a minimum temperature. Some superheating would be necessary in any case, to prevent condensation in the supply pipes.

        • hornster

          I am hopeful and actually convinced that Mr. Rossi has something here. He is rightfully secretive about what he knows or does not know, and I wish him the best. It seems he has put a great deal of effort into the control system for a reaction he may or may not know a great deal of. Either way, if he knows or does not know the physics of his reaction he is in a good spot. It is like Edison, damn the torpedos let’s make light!

    • Matt Sevrens

      I think the customer would get their financial gains over multiyear use. There’s obviously an initial investment in the hardware that’s going to be expensive, but after that the fuel cost is negligible. So it might be the first year the customer pays one million dollars for the plant itself, but the next year they only pay a few hundred for the fuel and for maintenance. Hence the longer they use it, the greater the savings.

      • Owen Geiger

        Did the customer buy it or lease it?

        • Agaricus

          Purchase by the client of what is actually just a completely unproven prototype seems extremely unlikely. Unless they own the company concerned (the penalty clauses make this seem unlikely) Darden et al. probably had to work quite hard just to persuade the client to take the risk of installing this unknown device alongside their existing boiler.

          They (IH) probably had to meet all the costs of installation as well, and the deal might be that if the plant saves the client money, that is theirs to keep, and if it doesn’t, IH will pay compensation (the penalty clauses). Perhaps there is an option to lease the plant if the tests are successful.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The 1 MW plant is one of the few things in this screwed up world that isn’t a scam.

  • Sanjeev

    The answers are unambiguous, so I guess the first lenr power plant is now working indeed. This is a historical event, but a private one, and we must wait for real celebrations till its publicly revealed. Congratulations anyway !

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      well he has not confirmed that it produces more energy than consumed. this is a fairly major point.

      • Sanjeev

        Nicholas, fair point, and that’s why I ask to postpone the celebrations till its all revealed with a happy customer.
        But, would a customer spend a million on a iron box full of water heaters if he does not gain anything from it ?
        I have some reasons to expect overunity, else the whole circus doesn’t make sense. The customer is expecting a saving on his energy bill and Rossi has promised a COP of at least 6. Things add up for me. We will see how it turns out.

  • deleo77

    Think of the positives of Rossi inviting 60 Minutes to come see the plant tomorrow. He would get the lead story on this Sunday’s show “the man who invented a working cold fusion device”, IH would get a hundred million dollars in immediate funding from investors with basically no questions asked, Rossi would soon be nominated for a Nobel prize, he would win Time’s Person of the Year award, he would get a visit with the President at the White House, and invitations to give lectures at all of the top universities in the world…

    Of course I am joking a bit with all of this. But still, just call 60 Minutes and set it all in motion. Of course there is downside risk to that, but against everything above, it is a no brainer decision.

    • ecatworld

      I would expect something like this is in the plans. But they probably have to fulfill the contractual obligations with the customer before they will be allowed to bring the press in. 365 working days out of 400

    • EEStorFanFibb

      now is not the time for that. they are still in a product development stage involving extensive testing. wait for 2016 for real marketing. all products are developed in at least semi -stealth.

      • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

        totally agree, now is the time to media blackout. IH needs to be 105% ready when they announce this, or we’ll have a repeat of the F/P debacle where they announced it before they had enough evidence to back themselves up.

        • georgehants

          Nicholas, I think you will find it was the University that forced the early announcement, not P&F.
          ——–
          when they were forced by University of Utah legal to announce.
          http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Cold_fusion/Experts/Abd_ul-Rahman_Lomax/Bliki

        • georgehants

          Are you saying that it is not the job of science to examine the effectiveness of homeopathy or the Placebo effect?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Are Nobel prizes and politicians the be all and the end all?
      The E-Cat is its own prize.

      • bachcole

        I was thinking the same thing. The President, whoever he is, should go and visit Rossi at Rossi’s home or at I.H.

        And as for the Nobel Prizes in Chemistry and Physics, given his Swedish connections, he has one or both of those in the freaking bag.

  • Oceans2014

    The From Russia with Love Parahomov Reactor – burns tomorrow and could prove to be a very important date in history, its just that close now.

    • Axil Axil

      If the past is preview, a blast will occur and the test will be aborted as the reactor blows itself apart. But let us hope for good luck.

      • Bob Greenyer

        When I showed Alexander the Bang! video, he gave a knowing smile and a little chuckle. Let’s hope we see more.

        • Gerrit

          Ash analysis would be great evidence.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            GAS ash analysis is essential!

  • Richard

    It would seem to me that the client should be eager to involve the press. Imagine the great exposure to reveal your company as ground breaking, risk taking and environmentally conscious. The lack of media coverage leads me to believe that either they are connected to Cherokee or they have an agreement with IH to remain anonymous until IH is ready for the big reveal.

    • Axil Axil

      Clear analysis and common sense. These are the tools needed to make progress in understanding LENR.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      I love that the only way that this could backfire on the customer, (NUCLEAR OH NO!!!!!), means that the govt would be required to admit that the ecat **is** nuclear

    • Omega Z

      I can see a couple reasons for the customer to stay silent.
      Not wanting the connection should it not work as advertised.
      Not wanting the attention that would be disruptive to business.

      If after a year, the pilot plant works as advertised, They may not care to advertise their business advantage to competitors. However, this may depend on their agreement with Industrial Heat.

      • Gerard McEk

        I have done some calculations to see when a 1 MW E-Cat reactor plant is commercial in comparison to an oil heated equivalent. Some starting points: 1MW, COP 5, Rate 4%, Cost: 1,5M€; Oil heater 200 K€. To the current electricity and oil prices it would take about 5,5 years to ROI. If COP would change to 10, ROI is about 4,4 years. If IH/Rossi could sell the plant for 1 M€ (COP 5), ROI would be about 2,6 years. Quite an interesting investment! I did not include maintenance.

        • MaxS

          in all so called 3rd party tests the COP was less than 3 (although for hotcats), this would kill the ROI.

          • Omega Z

            From the Lugano Report
            “The reactor operating point was set to about 1260ºC in the first half of the run, and at about 1400°C in the second half. The measured energy balance between input and output heat yielded a COP factor of about 3.2 and 3.6 for the 1260ºC and 1400ºC runs, respectively.”

            In the 1st TIP, a COP-5.6 was obtained, but I’ll disregard that.
            In the Lugano test, the reactor was under continuous power. The start/stop & mouse control was not activated. Higher COP is attainable.

            Ignoring the mouse activation, Rossi has stated the ability of a power 25% on — 75% off mode. If output can be sustained, this would indicate a multiplier x4.
            3.2×4=COP-12.8
            3.6×4=COP-14.4
            ———————————————————————
            If a continuous self sustain of the reactor were possible & “I” don’t think that possible in real world application, The E-cat controller in the Lugano test still required 300 watts. This must be considered power consumed as it is necessary irregardless for the process. With this in mind, a maximum COP=33.3 is obtainable.

            Excluding the controller input, I have already determined that once you exceed COP>20, It really doesn’t matter as you get dwindling returns. At this point, in order to reduce your power input by half requires doubling of COP from 20 to 40. Halving input again requires COP>80. My point is the input falls to a level of being negligible.
            ———————————————————————
            Many here at ECW think that extreme COP is everything & provides all the power needed. It doesn’t. 10Kw is 10Kw.
            If a COP>20 is achieved, Conversion efficiency of heat to electricity becomes the most important factor. I would much rather see a conversion of 20% rise to 25% then COP>20 rising to COP>40.

            There is also the issue of scale. Conversion efficiency at 10Kw is problematic. Realistically, 25% may be the limit. It just becomes to costly to achieve higher percentages.

            We need a new way to convert heat to electricity that is not mechanically limited. One possibility is the Solid State JTEC approach. A TEG/TEC with zero moving parts & depends on the temperature difference. This is not yet available, but could feasibly reach 50% plus efficiencies even with 10Kw heat source or less.

            Another option is MHD which may also exceed 50% conversion efficiency. Once suggested by Randall Mills(BLP), tho quickly dropped & he picked up on PV cells.
            I’m not that familiar with MHD technology, but I think it is presently more theory then a usable technology/product at this time. We need a major push for both the JTEC & MHD. The next holy grails.

          • Gerard McEk

            Even with a COP of 3 it would still be profitable But the ROI would take longer, but Omega Z is right, a much higher COP of the 1 MW E-cat plant is very likely.

  • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

    We won’t have to take Rossi’s word on this, let them finish the industrial testing, and IH will go public like a bombshell.

  • Zizzle

    Temperatures needed to fire certain clays can be found here:

    http://www.bigceramicstore.com/info/ceramics/cone-chart.html

    Apparently, for red clay to mature you need about 1850 F, or 1010 C. Hotter still for other types. That’s too hot for steam transmission from low-temp E-Cats. My guess is there’s some other use for the heat.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    But hasn’t Rossi been saying this for months already?
    Maybe there are some new nuances, but the wording was made by the questioner.

    • Agaricus

      That was my understanding too. The pilot is running under ‘field’ conditions, i.e., replacing an existing boiler in an industrial environment.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, hope your well, good in Penzance after the winds.
        There is still a little real science going on.
        http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.6213

        • Agaricus

          Morning George. All good, thanks – seeing the sun helps a lot.

          The paper you link too sounds intriguing – I’ve saved the PDF for later reference.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Concerning the paper you linked at, I think that one of the sources of weirdness of QM is that the theory is kind of force-fit into language of classical physics in the sense that the wavefunction is a function of ordinary coordinates which are basically downward extrapolations from the macroscopic world. That is, QM starts by assuming that space (coordinates, position) is a fundamental rather than emergent concept.

          Already Einstein was worried about this, but it hasn’t been fixed, I think because a differential equation is about the only way physicists are familiar with for expressing a predictive natural law, and to write down a differential equation one needs some variables that appear in the derivatives of the equation.

          Maybe it doesn’t need to be fixed because QM works in the sense of producing meaningful predictions. But my point is that considering it in this way may help understand why the QM wavefunction formalism is as it is.

          • georgehants

            Pekka, thank you, I like many common-sense people are not qualified i.e. not willing to spend time on learning say differential equations etc.
            That does not in anyway inhibit our understanding of the fundamental realities.
            Science does not have a clue about what the Quantum reality is or means, it is just struggeling along with a few important measurements ( the two slit experiment etc. ) and theories that of course will change as more knowledge is found.
            What is known for certain is that our reality is just a product of a much deeper reality that could be designed or just possibly the most outrageous use of probability in the Anthropic Principles etc.
            And below that will probably be another reality.
            Many dimensions, other realities, no time, etc. etc are all possibilities that fall outside of classical science and are therefore seen by many scientists as Crackpot and not to be discussed.
            Your ides above are certainly to be thought about on equal terms with those of a creator etc. and it is illogical and incompetent to dismiss any possible theory because it is not liked by the Dogma huggers, A little like Cold Fusion, I think
            Best

          • psi2u2

            “That is, QM starts by assuming that space (coordinates, position) is a fundamental rather than emergent concept.”

            Fascinating conjecture. Thanks.

        • William D. Fleming

          Exciting stuff!

          • georgehants

            William, so agree, Wonderful that so much to find out there, if only everybody were informed and aware that there is more beyond this sad (for many) existence.
            The simple basis of the Quantum reality, should (I think) be taught to our children from the very start of their education.

          • William D. Fleming

            Interesting idea: Teach children the truth about the mystery of existence and the limits of rational thought. Awareness of the grandeur of reality might lead to enhanced motivation to survive and live well in peace and mutual respect.

          • georgehants

            So agree, what more Wonderful that to be able to dream about the many possible answers.
            Take peoples minds away from this sad World to what could really be the answer.
            The ball lies with science becoming honest.

          • William D. Fleming

            Richard Feynman, in “QED”, expressed the position of the science establishment very well: “Don’t ask why, just shut up and compute”. Yet every significant advance in understanding has been made by deeply questioning people who leap beyond established limits.

            If we could somehow gain an understanding of personal identity and its relationship to conscious awareness maybe we could move beyond the current limitations.

          • georgehants

            William, all this is so connected to the scientific failures regarding Cold Fusion but we had better finish or such a Wonderful conversation could expand infinitely.
            Many thanks, one day science may allow a few more like Feynman, Einstein, Josephson etc. to slip through the barriers, but surviving a science education with more than ten brain cells left working has removed such people almost entirely.

          • georgehants

            Roger, I can recommend that you read the several volumes of Stanislav Grof and his work from the 1950,s to the present day, all ignored by science of course, but now strangely being re-investigated and found to be correct, mostly without reference and thanks to Grof.

    • Warthog

      The key nuance is that in the first case it is a “pilot” (i.e. test) operating. In the second the case is that the previously tested device is “production ready”. Validating case 2 is, I think, precisely what Rossi meant by the results being “positive or negative”. This is a pretty strong indication that the “positive” case has proved out. But I’m sure we will see further clarification in short order.

      • georgehants

        Not clever Roger, do your own Research.

    • bkrharold

      It is the first time that I recall he has confirmed the ecat is working as designed so emphatically. His previous comments have been much more cautious.

  • Daniel Maris

    Yes – a pretty basic question before we crack open the champagne.

    Also, is Vaughn aware of where it is and who the owner of the facility is?

    Until he comes out and confirms he has full knowledge of what is going on I won’t be happy.

  • georgehants

    The US and UK scientific comics will still be publishing nothing but reports on steam engines when everybody is buying an E-cat from B&Q on line.
    Still need reports from elsewhere of a working Cold Fusion device in production to remove any chance of another “Windows” monopoly.
    The E-cat will only be a worthwhile success when the units are being shipped to those most in need and all ridiculous SUV’s are being melted down to build them.
    Wonderful day, for some of us.

    • Sean

      Well I hopefully report that my steam locomotive (7 1/4″ Gauge 4-6-2 Flying Scotsman) is running well with the latest miniaturised Rossi ECAT. So there, L.O.L., I will have to put fake coal in the tender though to make it look authentic.

      • georgehants

        Sean, ha, I know you would not do that as it would then not be authentic, same with Peter and his canal-boat, real steam engines will be preserved for a thousand years if we survive today’s insane World.

        • Sean

          Ok, You got me on authenticity. Well I am just building the Briggs boiler right now. I case anyone wants the best material for an ECAT boiler,,I have found the latest boiler steel plate P265GH. Low corrosion. When I get hold of an ECAT, I would like to retrofit the new Hotham Park Train (Class 33) with it (Ecat to electric). Also I may design a new demonstration ECAT steam loco. (I would use a re-condensing system like some American steam locomotives.) Isn’t Ecat exiting? So much potential when it come on the market. Hopefully a good chance we can build an ECAt ourself s through open source.

          • georgehants

            Wonderful you guys that have such serious hobbies, good to keep the old things alive and then as you suggest bring in the new (E-cat).
            Yes we are privileged I think to be witnessing possibly one of the most important discoveries in history.
            Such a shame that it is having a very difficult birth.
            Thank god for ECW and the few other Cold Fusion Websites or nothing would be known to us.
            I am quite good at building houses but could not do the intricate stuff like you guys.
            Best to you

          • Agaricus

            I imagine that when it’s time to try out e-cat steam locomotives, they’ll look more like diesels than 4472. Something more like Bulleid’s ill-fated ‘Leader’ class perhaps…

            http://www.bulleidboard.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/misc/36001_stn_w4.jpg

  • Omega Z

    I’ll oblige for Rossi. Likely an unintended slip.

    It may be positive or negative.
    🙂
    I did notice in one such response he added that he was optimistic.

  • Alberonn

    I remember Rossi stating somewhere in 2011 that his proto-E-cat had been used to heat his facilities in Italy for the past 1.5 years, so before 2011… Things like that tend to dampen my excitement about this statement a bit…

    • Owen Geiger

      It shouldn’t if you’re paying attention.

    • bkrharold

      I remember reading he was using an early version to heat his working space. That is a far cry from a reliable source of 1MW of heat. Rossi has put in a tremendous amount of work to get this far, mostly without any help from anybody.

      • georgehants

        At root nothing is “an objective or a physical thing.” if you wish to be exact it is just a Quantum Wave-function

  • georgehants

    What a Wonderful and unusual scientist Mr Rossi is, gives his opinion and thoughts and then qualifies them with the fully correct proviso, I do not Know.
    Will present day scientists ever learn this lesson.
    ——-
    Andrea Rossi
    February 27th, 2015 at 8:41 AM
    Peter Forsberg:
    ” The only thing I know is that I do not know” (Socrates).
    This said, in Philosophy there is not a distinction between empty space
    and filled- with- something- space. If in a certain space there is
    something, also between the components of this something there will be
    some space: remember the paradox of the turtle that will never be
    reached by the fox ? This brings to the infinitesimal calculus, that has
    been invented by philosophers. My personal opinion is that space and
    time are anthropocentric concepts: our brain needs the concept of space
    and time to formulate models that bring to new understandings.
    But again: ” The only thing I know for sure is that I don’t know”.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • AlbertNN

      Science do not state that there is no creator, fairies etc. Just that they are not part of science, as we can not set up a test of their existence.

      • georgehants

        Generally wrong I think, are you saying you are perfectly willing to except that fairys are genuine manifestations of the Mind or are a physical unexplained reality?

      • bachcole

        Unfortunately, AlbertNN, so many people including scientists don’t have your philosophical insight. Or they might say what you said, and then turn around and say or believe that science has a monopoly on all knowing and nothing can be known if science doesn’t know it, sort of an agnostic approach to these kinds of subjects.

        It will be a big step forward when people realize that science has inherent limitations. This is not a reason to abandon science, merely a reason to stop limiting ourselves to it.

    • georgehants

      I wonder how many highly qualified scientists are hiding under the kitchen table wearing tinfoil hats when faced with scientific Facts, that are in complete opposition to the religious crap they have always been taught to believe.
      I am still waiting for somebody to offer Evidence againsed my above Facts.

      • GreenWin

        Ah George, spoiling for a bit of a tussle this morn? Rossi’s statement will further thrust him into the realm of great heretics – Bruno, Copernicus, Galileo, Wegner. What better point man could we ask to lead the way to an “Impossible Invention?” As you oft say, “wonderful day!”

        • georgehants

          GreenWin, yes just enjoying the day on this Wonderful and rare Website that Admin allows to discuss the real reasons for why Cold Fusion and many other scientific areas are corruptly debunked, denied and ignored by the sheep.
          These cover-ups are costing many lives and everybody that tries to stop these discussions, to free science from it’s religious beliefs is partly to blame for that terrible suffering.

      • bachcole

        Could you please tell me what a Fact is? And don’t blow me off because I think that the answer to this question is pivotal to understanding why you and I keep fighting. You don’t even know about all of my comments that Frank keeps tossing, so you don’t know the full extent of our disagreement. But this question about what is a fact may be the problem. A Fact is a matter of opinion. What is a fact for me (the reality of the E-Cat) is certainly not a fact for many scientists. What is a fact to many scientists (vaccines build immunity) is not a fact for me.

        So, please, tell us, what is a fact?

        • georgehants

          Roger, if you wish to discuss your philosophical ideas then open a comment on the always open thread and I will debate as deeply as you like.
          Your keep popping up on real World topics with your daft questions is incongruous.
          Mr. Rossi is a philosopher but knows perfectly well that the subject is out of place when discussing basic reality at an everyday level
          In the meanwhile here are a few deep philosophical statements for you to argue with.
          ———-
          01. Be normal, and the crowd will accept you. Be deranged, and they will make you their leader.
          02. Every great man was thought to be insane before he changed the world. Some never changed the world. They were just insane.
          03. I don’t fail. I succeed at finding what doesn’t work.
          04. It’s always funny until someone gets hurt. Then it’s funnier.
          05. When in doubt, do it.
          06. A crappy life is a great excuse to live a crappy life.
          07. Always apologize first–it annoys the crap out of people.
          08. “Losing builds character.” You know who said that? A loser.
          09. Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Cry, and the world laughs harder.
          10. There’s a one-in six-billion chance that you’ll find your soulmate. And that’s if they’re not dead.
          11. Learn from your parents’ mistakes. Use birth control.
          12. The government favors the most diplomatic language. That’s why any letter to them should always start with, “Dear turkeys and foul
          maggots…”
          13. Everyone has an enemy. It’s why God gave us baseball bats. Well, He gave us trees, but we knew what He meant.
          14. Born free. Taxed to death.
          15. I don’t suffer from insanity–I enjoy every minute of it.
          16. We are brought into this world cold, weak, and helpless. Then it gets worse.
          17. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
          18. Passion, manners, and 80 ounces of beer will win the heart of any
          woman. And if it doesn’t, you’ll be too hammered to remember.
          19. If at first you don’t succeed, then drag racing isn’t for you.
          20. Take the time to smell the roses. Sooner or later, you’ll inhale a bee and die.
          21. No problem is so big and difficult that it can’t be blamed on somebody else.
          22. Revenge is good. It’s what separates us from the animals and the hippies.
          23. Whenever you’re pissed off, just remember that it’s better than being pissed on.
          24.
          Screwed-up people settle fights through violence. Screwed-up people
          start wars that could kill millions. Normal people settle fights through
          cookies, cakes, and pies. Normal people are fat.
          25. God bless America. But God, please help Canada.
          – Christopher Titus

          • Agaricus

            Thanks for posting that, George. Best laugh I’ve had for quite some time!

          • bachcole

            It is not a philosophical debate. It is a psychological debate, which is why do you imagine that you have a monopoly on truth and EVERYONE who disagrees with you knows about all of the data and is either incompetent or a crook, and you say this with great passion. It doesn’t seem to penetrate into your thinking that other scientists who disagree with us (which is most of them) may simply be too busy or too afraid to investigate cold fusion and they may actually not be crooks and/or incompetent.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Horror vacui

  • William D. Fleming

    We are way off topic but I’ll risk a short response.

    If there is such a person as you describe they have not expressed themselves very well IMO. I assume you are talking about the insights and intuitions of religious mystics gained through meditation. While those are valuable things, I was hoping for something testable which would mesh with quantum theory.

  • Robert Ellefson

    If you are taking about LENR phenomena being discovered and going unrecognized, then you need to go back more than the 5+ years that Rossi has been discussing his results publicly, and past the 25+ years since Pons and Fleischmann made their announcement, and past the 88+ years since Paneth and Peters first published their findings of helium produced from hydrogen, and go at least 102+ years to 1912. This was when Langmuir began discovering the extraordinary properties of atomic hydrogen while improving the light bulb at General Electric, but was dissuaded from further investigation by Bohr, because the anomalous heat observations conflicted with prevailing theories and lacked a suitable explanation. We have thus endured at least a century of delayed introduction of LENR, thanks to the functioning of the modern scientific ‘method’ of screening results to fit our preconceived notions of how the world is supposed to work, rather than appropriately valuing observations of how it actually works.

  • bkrharold

    Rossis first industrial ecat will certainly be improved upon in later versions. As soon as scientists learn the underlying mechanism, it will be possible to make more efficient compact and cheaper versions in the future. Just compare the first automobile, the model T with the sleek modern cars available today. I believe that progress will be quite rapid, once news of the successful industrial application gets into the mainstream.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has already squeezed the reactors down to where 100 of them fit within a cubic meter. Everything else in the container is heat exchangers, pumps, controls Etc.

      Most of this is what it is. There isn’t much room to be gained. You need a certain amount of surface area to transfer certain amounts of heat. There’s ways to improve on this, but it in itself requires additional hardware. You in essence trade 1 for 1.

      Note that (1Mw) 1 cubic meter of (100)reactors equal about 1350 horsepower at “Normal” operating range. This is a very close size comparison to an IC engine operating maxed out.

      “Normal”->It is my opinion that a 10Kw E-cat reactor can actually produce 15Kw/20Kw for short durations thus surpassing an IC engine max horsepower of similar size.

  • Gerrit

    on one of the fotos of the 1MW plant there is a piece of equipment with yellow label “SQUARE D”.
    I didn’t nothing this foto before. Is it new?

    • artefact

      Yes, it’s new.

      • ecatworld
        • Gerard McEk

          Looks to me a high power post box…;)

          • Sanjeev

            It can be a distribution panel or circuit breaker. Square D is a well known brand I guess, google shows some good info for it.

          • Veblin

            It is a step down transformer. PP-1 supplies 480 Volt 3 phase to the primary of the transformer. The secondary of the transformer supplies 120V/240V to panel PP-2. The post box look is to remove waste heat. The bottom is off the floor and cooler air comes in a grid there and warmer air comes out the (mail slot) near the top.

          • Gerard McEk

            Thank you Veblin!

          • georgehants

            Andy, thank you, then you can agree with me that any scientists that makes statements such as there is no creator, fairys etc. is an incompetent fool that has no understanding of scientific principles?

          • AlbertNN

            Only if they say that there is scientific proof of it. Otherwise scientists are entitled to a personal opinion, like everybody else.

  • georgehants

    Roger please explain what you mean by “fact”

  • Sanjeev

    I was wondering what industrial process needs low temperature steam continuously and the amount is so much that it needs a power of roughly 1 MW only to produce steam ?
    Perhaps we can narrow down the kind of process this customer is running.

  • Andre Blum

    you can ask this question yourself at http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/ . Rossi will answer your question just like anyone else’s. Go to the most recent article, click below the introduction text, where it says ‘300 comments’ (or whatever number), then scroll down all the way and leave a comment. Watch that space for an answer, usually within half a day.

  • georgehants

    Albert, my original point was and is, scientists make complete fools of themselves every-time they say something cannot exist.
    I used fairys as an example, not if science should investigate.
    I will say again any scientist that says that fairys, Cold Fusion, UFO’s cannot exist in some form of reality, has no place practicing science and of course should be removed from any teaching position that would corrupt and close students minds.
    Do you agree?

    • bachcole

      Science as a tool cannot prove negatives. Any scientist who says that such-an-such cannot exist is saying that as a human being, a not very curious human being. They cannot say that as a scientist. But people worship scientists rather than be good thinkers (philosophers) and fail to realize that when a scientist is saying that such-an-such cannot exist, they are speaking as just one of the guys and not as a thinking scientist.

      So, georgehants, I am agreeing with you 100%.

      But this arrogation of authority is most annoying; and people’s submission to their inappropriate authority is also most annoying. When the FDA says “ABC drug does XYZ”, that is almost always true. When the FDA says “DFG drugs does NOT do XYZ”, that is almost always their opinion based upon their desire to protect some industry, which is a polite way of saying “bull$hit”.

      Be aware of when they say that “we have no evidence that XYZ exists”, that is usually code for “XYZ does not exist.” And this is not a trivial matter. They will make XYZ illegal; they will de-fund or refuse funding for XYZ, simply because they say that they have no evidence that XYZ exists. They often fail to mention that they did not even look for XYZ. And their statement “we have no evidence for XYZ” becomes a defacto “XYZ does not exist”.

  • In retrospect, it seems JT Vaughn at IH skillfully put up a smokescreen regarding the North Carolina radiation inspectors who were being used as a pawn by Gary Wright to find out where Rossi was working.

    • ecatworld

      It looks to me from the pictures that have been released, that the working space (factory as Rossi calls it) is also inside a container.

      The walls seem to be of the same kind of steel as the shipping container housing the reactors. Maybe the factory as well as the plant is mobile and easily transportable.

    • Ophelia Rump

      No they established a business and provided it with a legitimate address. They documented all of the above and when asked. allowed government officials to inspect their facilities. IH is simply not in the business of performing research in the state of North Carolina. It is even questionable if IH directly performs any form of research in any state.
      Business relationships are complex things. Just because they were not undone by the first malicious hack to come along does not make them nefarious. They are simply wise enough to insulate their public front cheap attacks.

      • What I’m saying is JT Vaughn skillfully did not give the inspectors much info about Rossi’s current project and it’s location and that Gary Wright’s intentions had nothing to do with radiation safety. Is that more clear?

  • bkrharold

    Yes I agree with you comp!etely. Once we begin working with nature instead of against it, I think the damage can be repaired. I was encouraged to read an article recently where a small scale experiment showed certain rapidly growing plants can have a beneficial effect on the atmosphere comparable with large trees which take much longer to grow. Another promising idea was a video on YouTube showing how mushrooms can repair polluted land which can no longer sustain life. They showed that in a short time mushrooms can digest these pollutants and provide an abundant source of food for insects, which attract birds in a virtuous cycle of recovery. The contrast between the original blighted landscape and how it appeared six months later was striking.

  • bkrharold

    With all the wonderful advances in materials science and nanotechnology it may be possible to fabricate an energy device based on the e-cat principle that efficiently provides electricity without the need for complicated control mechanisms or energy input. I read recently they have discovered a way to make steel ten times stronger and much lighter by tinkering with surface molecular structure. They can now use supercomputers to design complex metallic alloys with qualities that are tailored to any desired application

  • alaister

    Mr Rossi if he has created what he says he has is anything but selfish.I wonder if you had worked as hard as he has or put up with the insults and the risk of delivering nothing,
    Would YOU just GIVE it away.
    I suspect NOT!.
    If he has delivered this new safe and plentifull source of energy he is up there with the the men that created electric etc.
    Just be thankfull that people like this exist.

  • Agaricus

    Sorry, butI find it a bit difficult to see where paranoia is relevant to AlbertNN’s comments. I wonder – do you interpret any attempt at secrecy or misdirection by anyone, anywhere, or any suggestion that some other party may be engaged in such tactics as paranoia? You certainly toss the term around rather freely.

    paranoia (parəˈnɔɪə/)

    Noun

    A mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality.

    synonyms:persecution complex, delusions, obsession, megalomania, monomania; psychosis

  • GreenWin

    Frank, do we no longer have guest voting for comments and posts?

  • hornster

    I am concerned about the need to resort to natural gas as the spark for the reaction vs. electric heating in the proposed gas hot cat. While gas is indeed a cheaper energy, it implies that the efficiency (COP) may be marginal. Electric would be the way to go.
    Using electric heating would be much simpler. Igniting gas safely is complicated. The modular design of the e-cat would require many complex ignition modules or pilot lights which in my experience are troublesome or inefficient.

    • Mike Ivanov

      All these devices are just prototypes, proof of concept. Real engineering teams will create reactors which are quite different from these “dog bone” bar and others.

      • GreenWin

        Heating, sparks, EM fields – all will be replaced by coherent light stimulation as is being used currently in nanoplasma research. Ultimately, modulating coherent (laser) energy at the photonic level will provide discreet control of LENR reactions.

        e.g. We will see protium-infused lattices catalyzed by spin/phase controlled laser radiation targeted on surface geometry. n/132

  • georgehants

    Albert thank you, Scientist are always giggling about such things as UFO’s etc,
    I asked you above and you have not answered, do you agree that any scientists that giggles deny’s or try’s to debunk UFO’s fairys etc. as not being a possible important phenomenon is clearly not fitted to be a scientist?
    Who do you think should be looking for that “Evidence” ?

  • Mike Ivanov

    Rossi said many things. Even since Lugano report and Moscow replication made e-cat story much more solid – lets wait for any kind of 3rd party confirmation. Or at least normal sale of e-cat, without “secret customer”.

    But, if all these hints Rossi had made are genuine – if I would be him, I wouldn’t bother about skeptics or community at all. Actually his interest could be a quite opposite, to keep a lot of fog around until they are fully prepared to go to open market with tested and polished devices and be able to provide robust and scalable support.

  • JT Vaughn totally has my respect in the way he handled the situation. The Ecat does not emit harmful radiation. Gary Wright is the one I have no respect for. Do you think he was concerned about harmful radiation at IH? He tries to tear down Rossi any chance he gets, beside the inspectors found zero radiation at IH. Why would they have? It was a big waste of time and taxpayers money.

  • Andy Kumar

    Fred,
    I did not mean it in an insulting way. It is premature to ask about price when the inventor says delivery is sooner or LATER.

    • Gregory Lee

      Fred and Andy. Do not fret about the price. I also believe what Dr. Rossi said about the price point for 10kw to be well within the reach of anyone and everyone around $500-$1000. It was very smart move of him doing that. He had to prove to himself that there was enough believers out there for him to continue the work on our behalf. It was to prove himself of necessity of the real thing when he first procured to know how many people would be interested in buying his product and created that famous “buyers list”.
      Well I believe I’m one of the very first to sign up and I’ve been counting on it ever since.

      Yes he did sway a bit about the price from his starting point of $500, but the last he said was it might come to around $700-$800 through Home Depot. I do believe he is still trying to make that target, although as I understand he is currently out of pictures as far as financing and marketing is concerned as he is devoting himself as technical engineer as you all know. I do believe he envisioned for us to use them for all our needs from hot water to home heating and generating electricity that would require several units in different configurations.
      But time will only tell if we can get by with single unit that can create all of that without fuss and at not far off price through direct electricity generation and such.
      As a matter of fact if direct electricity generation is fruitful then that actually would suffice for all our needs.
      We’ll need to rewire our home for it but that would certainly be more than worth it. Think of a near free energy, a few hundred bucks a year for the service cost of fuel replacement for whole year for the rest of your life . A car that runs infinite until it turns rust pile. Ha.

  • GreenWin

    Bobby and Clint – thanks for your comments. Yes LENR is very real and is being quietly, carefully introduced. In US and EU expect to see continued FUD and skeptical outcry. Without it we would see a financial meltdown making the Great Depression look tame. But massive funds are moving out of fossil/fission and into different market sectors. Smart energy companies will license a stake in LENR and first class entrepreneurs (Bill Gates) are already in.

    Consider Russia – whose entire economy is under threat from low oil prices — but Russia is openly leading LENR at the government agency level. A chip won at the energy poker game. Russia, India and China have all publicly acknowledged LENR. As has U.S. Navy, NASA, Sweden and Norway. There are superior talents at work to introduce this technology without crashing global economies. We are grateful for their help.

    Stick around guys – you’re going to witness a transformation making the invention of the wheel look tepid.

  • GreenWin

    A hoax? Not exactly. A clique of MIC puppeteers run the nuke village. Eisenhower warned us about them and their egos running wild. Many a good leader has warned about the dangers of a standing army. Men under arms require conflict and war. As long as humans wallow in fear of tribal neighbors – they will seek protection of standing armies. We’ll probably discover pyriamid power is far more elegant than splitting atoms. 🙂

  • GreenWin

    What they don’t care to teach at our ivory towers of learning (Andy’s Caltech, APS, MIT, etc) is how great minds come to perceive the mysteries they unravel. Take for example a most revered nuclear scientist and font of rational materialism – Max Planck.

    As a man who has devoted his whole life
    to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell
    you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter
    as such.
    All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force
    which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most
    minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this
    force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind.”
    Max Planck, Das Wesen der Materie [The Nature of Matter], speech at Florence, Italy (1944)

  • atlantis71

    30% of heat demand in the industrial sector by 2030. This is my forecast using a technology diffusion model.

    • bachcole

      I say 45%, using a Birdian intuition forecasting method.

      But you are right, the knowledge of LENR+ will be a shock, but the reality is that business will not want to jump ship unless their energy sources have died.