Open Power Association Preliminary Report on Reactors With Tungsten Powder, COP of 2.26 Measured [Update — Video]

I received the following report today from Ugo Abundo at the Open Power Association in Italy, which provides a short overview of tests the association has been doing using a reactor containing tungsten powder and hydrogen (compared to a control run with argon instead of hydrogen).

They report:

“Hydrobetatron preliminarily performs up to 2.26 ratio in hydrogen vs reference run in argon, with electrically pulsed powders at Open Power Lab.

“The contribution of involved heat transfer phenomena is under analysis.”

“The complete set of runs will be discussed at ICCF19.”

The Hydrobetatron is the name of the reactor that the Open Power Association has been developing for some years now. It appears that the test reported here is not the Parkhomov-style experiment that the OPA has recently reported it is carrying out.

Report 012 Spring1 Ottimizzato

Thanks to Pelgrim for finding this video of the electrically pulsed Hydrobetatron:

  • Gerard McEk

    I like the fact that LENR ctan be initiated by discharge as opposed to temperature. That may make the process more controllable. The COP should be improved.

  • Gerard McEk

    I like the fact that LENR ctan be initiated by discharge as opposed to temperature. That may make the process more controllable. The COP should be improved.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Did they use tungsten as a fuel, instead of nickel? That would appear to be a major advantage, since one might expect fewer problems due to molten particles.

    • Warthog

      My guess is that neither nickel or tungsten is “fuel”, except in undesirable side reactions. Certainly that is the case for Pd/D2 systems. The metal substrate “only” provides the “nuclear active environment” which allows the D2 (or H2) to fuse.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Yes, that is possible. Some of Santilli’s experiments seem to point in this direction. For the time being it might be better to speak of a substrate instead of a fuel.

        • Warthog

          Getting a yes or no answer to the 2H2 —> D2 is one of the more difficult experiments to do. Both the material handling of the sample and analytical finish require VERY finicky attention to detail to avoid either loss of the D2 (and H2), or mistaken mass spectroscopy peaks. And, of course, first you have to get the actual reaction to run reliably. NOT for the faint of heart. Which is why so few experiments have been attempted.

          • Warthog

            Correction…. should be 2D2—>He4. Senior moment……(or maybe insufficient coffee).

      • Alan DeAngelis

        On the other hand, Mitsubishi can transmute tungsten into platinum with deuterium.

      • Axil Axil

        nanoparticles of any element can make any nuclear reaction that results in positive binding energy gain occur. LENR is topological, (based on shapes), the material that forms those shapes are not that important.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Did they use tungsten as a fuel, instead of nickel? That would appear to be a major advantage, since one might expect fewer problems due to molten particles.

    • Warthog

      My guess is that neither nickel or tungsten is “fuel”, except in undesirable side reactions. Certainly that is the case for Pd/D2 systems. The metal substrate “only” provides the “nuclear active environment” which allows the D2 (or H2) to fuse.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Yes, that is possible. Some of Santilli’s experiments seem to point in this direction. For the time being it might be better to speak of a substrate instead of a fuel.

        • Warthog

          Getting a yes or no answer to the 2H2 —> D2 is one of the more difficult experiments to do. Both the material handling of the sample and analytical finish require VERY finicky attention to detail to avoid either loss of the D2 (and H2), or mistaken mass spectroscopy peaks. And, of course, first you have to get the actual reaction to run reliably. NOT for the faint of heart. Which is why so few experiments have been attempted.

          • Warthog

            Correction…. should be 2D2—>He4. Senior moment……(or maybe insufficient coffee).

      • Alan DeAngelis

        On the other hand, Mitsubishi can transmute tungsten into platinum with deuterium.

      • Axil Axil

        nanoparticles of any element can make any nuclear reaction that results in positive binding energy gain occur. LENR is topological, (based on shapes), the material that forms those shapes are not that important.

  • pelgrim108

    Video of the pulsed Hydrobetatron from Ugo Abundo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACF2tG663Lk

  • pelgrim108

    Thanks for featuring the video in the article.

  • bachcole

    If one reactor has argon and the other has hydrogen, and the hydrogen puts out 2.26 more heat, the only way I can think of that we do not have a valid nuclear reaction is if the hydrogen is burning with ambient oxygen.

  • Gerrit

    Bill Gates better hurry up with his funding if he wants to be in on the action.

  • Gerrit

    Bill Gates better hurry up with his funding if he wants to be in on the action.

  • I hoped Abundo is doing a Parkhomov like experiment. This one seems completely different and hard to compare.

  • I hoped Abundo is doing a Parkhomov like experiment. This one seems completely different and hard to compare.

  • Gerrit

    With all these reported successes I wonder what Brillouin Energy Corp is currently doing.

    • JDM

      Their web site doesn’t look like its been touched in four years!

  • Gerrit

    With all these reported successes I wonder what Brillouin Energy Corp is currently doing.

    • JDM

      Their web site doesn’t look like its been touched in four years!

  • E_man

    For me it looks like Sun Cell of R.Mills.

    • Omega Z

      For me, it looks like we’ll have multiple technologies & you can use/choose the one that best suits your needs. With multiple technologies available, you also have competition. It’s a win win for society.

      • Axil Axil

        Mills has shown that LENR can be adjusted to produce energy based on the wavelength of the EMF produced as visible light rather than heat or XUV and soft x-rays and with a limited shockwave. Conversely, Papp showed that LENR can release energy as a shockwave, pressure increase and visible light without heat production.

  • E_man

    For me it looks like Sun Cell of R.Mills.

    • Omega Z

      For me, it looks like we’ll have multiple technologies & you can use/choose the one that best suits your needs. With multiple technologies available, you also have competition. It’s a win win for society.

      • Axil Axil

        Mills has shown that LENR can be adjusted to produce energy based on the wavelength of the EMF produced as visible light rather than heat or XUV and soft x-rays and with a limited shockwave. Conversely, Papp showed that LENR can release energy as a shockwave, pressure increase and visible light without heat production.

        • bachcole

          This assumes that Mills and Papp have shown us anything. Mills is very much on probation with me.

  • Sanjeev

    Ukraine, Lenuco, AP, Ugo. Four claims in four days, one after the other. LENR is happening.

    • Ged

      It is quite a spectacular time!

    • ecatworld

      I expect more, as well.

      • Sanjeev

        Sure. We have MFMP, Bob Higgins, Ahern, and Biberian in the pipeline, and another experiment by Open Power Association.

        • Bob Higgins said something like that he knows that in russia over 100 independent attempts are worked out.

          • Sanjeev

            That was not Bob H, as far as I remember, it was Bob Greenyer who was told this by the organizer of the Russian conference where he presented recently. It can be a translation error and perhaps he meant that he *expected* 100s of attempts in Russia. We need confirmation.

          • Yes, right. I forgot the translation difficulties.

  • Sanjeev

    Ukraine, Lenuco, AP, Ugo. Four claims in four days, one after the other. LENR is happening.

    • Ged

      It is quite a spectacular time!

    • Frank Acland

      I expect more, as well.

      • Sanjeev

        Sure. We have MFMP, Bob Higgins, Ahern, and Biberian in the pipeline, and another experiment by Open Power Association.

        • Bob Higgins said something like that he knows that in russia over 100 independent attempts are worked out.

          • Sanjeev

            That was not Bob H, as far as I remember, it was Bob Greenyer who was told this by the organizer of the Russian conference where he presented recently. It can be a translation error and perhaps he meant that he *expected* 100s of attempts in Russia. We need confirmation.

          • Yes, right. I forgot the translation difficulties.

  • Warthog

    Even if the reactor design is the “arc discharge in water” approach, if tungsten works there, it will almost certainly work in a “gas-loaded” approach. And if THAT is true, then LENR research (and application) will explode, as the maximum upper temperature limit (and hence thermodynamic efficiency) will be drastically increased.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Fission reactors and chemical combustion could in principle reach quite high temperatures, too, but nevertheless most existing power plants use modest temperature Carnot cycles. I think the reason is that durable high temperature tolerant materials tend to be expensive or otherwise problematic.

      • Omega Z

        Agreed, Robust materials cost more. Tho they tolerate high temps, they also degrade faster at high temps & require more frequent replacement$.

        Then there’s the other issue. Using tungsten would add 2000’C to the ceiling temperature of an E-cat, but then, what would you contain it in?

        With LENR, Material Science becomes the biggest bottle neck to many advances. Even in the uses of LENR. Overcoming 1 problem just opens door to the next…

        • Axil Axil

          A version of LENR could involve a transition of plasma to a state of excited matter. The inner surface of tungsten could provide a zone were a plasma created using a electric arc can condense into nanoparticles that produce the LENR effect.
          Another possibility is the use of heat tolerant nanoparticles suspended in a fluid bed suspension. It is too early to lose hope that engineering can utilize high temperature LENR.

          • Omega Z

            What gives you the impression I’ve lost hope.

            I have confidence in material science & engineering. Anything is possible. It is merely a matter of finding those up to the challenge. And time…

  • Warthog

    Even if the reactor design is the “arc discharge in water” approach, if tungsten works there, it will almost certainly work in a “gas-loaded” approach. And if THAT is true, then LENR research (and application) will explode, as the maximum upper temperature limit (and hence thermodynamic efficiency) will be drastically increased.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Fission reactors and chemical combustion could in principle reach quite high temperatures, too, but nevertheless most existing power plants use modest temperature Carnot cycles. I think the reason is that durable high temperature tolerant materials tend to be expensive or otherwise problematic.

      • Omega Z

        Agreed, Robust materials cost more. Tho they tolerate high temps, they also degrade faster at high temps & require more frequent replacement$.

        Then there’s the other issue. Using tungsten would add 2000’C to the ceiling temperature of an E-cat, but then, what would you contain it in?

        With LENR, Material Science becomes the biggest bottle neck to many advances. Even in the uses of LENR. Overcoming 1 problem just opens door to the next…

        • bachcole

          You mean that we are not entering a unicorn world where everything is harmony and we get whatever we want? I don’t believe you. You’re just being a meanie head.

        • Axil Axil

          A version of LENR could involve a transition of plasma to a state of excited matter which activates LENR. The inner surface of tungsten containment could provide a zone of cooling were a plasma created using a electric arc can condense into nanoparticles that produce the LENR effect.

          Another possibility is the use of heat tolerant nanoparticles suspended in a fluid bed. It is too early to lose hope that engineering can utilize high temperature LENR.

          • Omega Z

            What gives you the impression I’ve lost hope.

            I have confidence in material science & engineering. Anything is possible. It is merely a matter of finding those up to the challenge. And time…

  • Charlie Tapp

    When hydrogen is passed through an electric arc it changes to deuterium which has a lot more thermal power than regular h2,( look up hydrogen torch) I wouldn’t get to exited about this they may be doing math for h2.

    • Obvious

      Better look that up again yourself…
      That’s not how an Atomic Arc works, if that’s what you mean.

      • Charlie Tapp

        Good catch did not mean deuterium, been up to long following this stuf I guess. I was more referring to h combining with h which is present because h2 was present in an electric arc and separated from diatomic hydrogen to atomic hydrogen. And when recombined yield more thermal power than when h2 and o are combined , I think sorry I get ahead of my brain a lot so I was just thinking they may not have accounted for that. Not a whole lot of people no about the atomic torch kind of a lost art . @nightcreature3 don’t know seems very efficient mabee to hard to get the hydrogen at that time, it is strange how hard it is to find one of these torches most people have to make one.

        • Twobob

          Langmire (1912). Discovered that hydrogen at low pressure in contact with a tungsten wire heated by an electric current is dissociated to some extent into atoms:”…
          “This absorbs a large amount of energy about 100kcal. per gram-molecule”
          The atomic hydrogen formed is chemically very active. Atomic hydrogen is formed,
          when an electric arc between tungsten electrodes is allowed to burn in hydrogen
          at atmospheric pressures.
          ” Atomic-hydrogen blown out of the arc by a jet of molecular hydrogen across the arc,forms an intensely hot flame. capable of melting tungsten”.
          “This flame obtains its heat from the recombination of the hydrogen atoms to H2”.

          • nightcreature3

            Yes, and it is said that this recombination is triggered when the H makes contact with the metal being welded. It is interesting to speculate that the metal might be causing some of the H to fuse into deuterium or helium in the same way nickel catalizes the Brillouin reaction.

          • Warthog

            Langmuir certainly thought it did, but when he broached the subject with Niels Bohr, he was told that any such thing was “impossible”.

          • Mark Underwood

            Good reference, going back to Langmire. Also, in the early 1990s Mills of BlackLight Power was doing the same type of experiments as Open Power Association, but with a lot more analytical data which pointed to hydrino. Mills also used hot tungsten to disassociate the H2 to atomic H, and also used Argon gas as a control.

    • nightcreature3

      I haven’t yet heard the original reason, as to why atomic hydrogen welding was discontinued in the sixties. Was it perhaps, that the welders were suffering some ill effects, pertaining to neutron emissions?

      • Ted-X

        I have heard about weak gamma radiation from the atomic hydrogen welding (from some university person/welding specialist in the 1970s).

        • nightcreature3

          Interesting! I would normally expect x-rays associated with electric arcs, but not gamma rays. Maybe this, is the smoking gun. However it may still be possible that these rays are too weak to be a significant health hazard.

    • Axil Axil

      Please supply a reference. I have read that an arc will generate hydrogen nanoparticles(rydberg matter) when the hydrogen plasma cools into an excited atomic state.

      • Thomas Clarke

        Axil – I think calling monoatomic H “hydrogen nanoparticles” is going to mislead many readers. Also, Rydberg matter requires a very low pressure (obviously – because the nuclei must be separated enough for much higher orbitals to be occupied) unlikely to be present here given those H2 bottles.

        It is true that low voltage electric arcs do not change H into D. It is also true that ultra-high voltage and power (trillions of volts) arcs from lightning (“dark lightning”) can in some circumstances behave like enormous particle accelerators and with very high energy particles many things are possible. That is not happening here, not enough voltage. It is the exact reverse of LENR!

        http://www.livescience.com/28594-dark-lightning-zaps-airline-passengers.html

        • Axil Axil

          regarding:

          “Rydberg matter requires a very low pressure (obviously – because the nuclei must be separated enough for much higher orbitals to be occupied) unlikely to be present here given those H2 bottles.”

          The state of a substance at temperatures and pressures above the critical values is
          called supercritical fluid. The properties are in between those of the liquid and gaseous state. Hydrogen is a supercritical fluid at temperatures above 33.2K and pressures above 31.1 bar.

          Nanoparticles are formed in supercritical fluids as a result of pressure/temperature charge (oscillation).

          See a demonstration of nanoparticle production theory using a supercritical fluid.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zurHSq4CB4

    • Obvious
  • Obvious

    Better look that up again yourself…
    That’s not how an Atomic Arc works, if that’s what you mean.

  • nightcreature3

    I haven’t yet heard the original reason, as to why atomic hydrogen welding was discontinued in the sixties. Was it perhaps, that the welders were suffering some ill effects, pertaining to neutron emissions?

    • Ted-X

      I have heard about weak gamma radiation from the atomic hydrogen welding (from some university person/welding specialist in the 1970s).

      • nightcreature3

        Interesting! I would normally expect x-rays associated with electric arcs, but not gamma rays. Maybe this, is the smoking gun. However it may still be possible that these rays are too weak to be a significant health hazard.

  • Colibric41AC

    after nuclear winter lenr is coming

  • Axil Axil

    Please supply a reference. I have read that an arc will generate hydrogen nanoparticles(rydberg matter) when the hydrogen plasma cools into an excited atomic state.

  • nightcreature3

    Yes, and it said that this recombination is triggered when the H makes contact with the metal being welded. It is interesting to speculate that the metal might be causing some of the H to fuse to deuterium or helium in the same way nickel catalizes the Brillouin reaction.

    • Warthog

      Langmuir certainly thought it did, but when he broached the subject with Niels Bohr, he was told that any such thing was “impossible”.

  • Thomas Clarke

    Fascinating. These results of higher temperature versus time for H2 vs Ar could be the results of:

    (1) H2 burning, or combining with some other reactive material

    (2) the combination of electric discharge + H2 having a higher thermal resistance than electric charge + Ar – or possibly a lower thermal resistance – depending on the experimental setup and exactly where temperature is measured

    (3) LENR

    Since the first two mechanisms are understandable I’d want to rule them out before jumping on number 3 – but to do so you would need a lot more information than is given here and I bet a lot more information than the experimenters here have (or they’d not be posting meaningless graphs). Although they do say “heat transfer phenomena are under analysis” – so perhaps not.

    The experiment seems to be naturally difficult to get solid results from – electric discharges are very complex and tend to muck things up. But with will and enough effort any setup can be fully analysed, so let us hope they do this. Till then it would be wrong to see this as weight in the scales.

    • Daniel Maris

      Having read the comment, it sounds a bit like “same difference”.

      In some ways, I prefer the referenced measurements to more direct calorimetry. As TC says below, ruling out 1 and 2 seem like the way to go.

  • Axil Axil

    regarding:

    “Rydberg matter requires a very low pressure (obviously – because the nuclei must be separated enough for much higher orbitals to be occupied) unlikely to be present here given those H2 bottles.”

    The state of a substance at temperatures and pressures above the critical values is
    called supercritical fluid. The properties are in between those of the liquid and gaseous state. Hydrogen is a supercritical fluid at temperatures above 33.2K and pressures above 31.1 bar.

    Nanoparticles are formed in supercritical fluids as a result of pressure/temperature charge.

    See a demonstration of nanoparticle production theory using a supercritical fluid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zurHSq4CB4

  • Obvious