Swedish Radio Pair Honored for Skeptical Series on Cold Fusion (LENR-Forum)

David Nygren has posted an article on the LENR-Forum about the ‘Golden Shovel’ awards made this weekend at a seminar held by the Swedish Association for Investigative Journalism in which an honorable mention was made for the work of science news editor Ulrika Björkstén and free-lance journalist Marcus Hansson.

The article can be found here: http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1236-Investigative-journalism-Swedish-Radio-about-Cold-fusion/?postID=3376#post3376

The four part radio series was made before the publication of the Lugano E-Cat report last year, and was critical of the field of cold fusion in general, and suggested particularly that the work of Andrea Rossi was suspect and that he could have been fooling scientists (including Swedes Hanno Essen and Sven Kullander, both early investigators of the E-Cat) and using them to further his own ends.

English transcripts of the four radio programs in the series can be found here:

Part 1: http://bit.ly/1jXweXw
Part 2: http://bit.ly/1tnuK9T
Part 3: http://bit.ly/1kQS8M9
Part 4: http://bit.ly/1FlimhX

David Nygren writes:

Since the Science Radio at SR is considered to have high credibility, the reportage has made it difficult for other Swedish media to report on cold fusion and the E-Cat story.

  • Gerard McEk

    The more reason to replicate Parkhomov ASAP. I wonder what will happen than in Sweden.
    It is strange that the scientists who contributed so much to the LENR community are so fiercely attacked by the media. Perhaps another critical journalist will investigate that?

    • Freethinker

      The whole thing is grotesque. The responsible people should be fired. Instead they are rewarded.

      Soon enough they will be laughed at. Fine. I’d rather see them punished, since this is not an honest mistake, this is in my view a premeditated and organized hitpiece. One would assume that their petty little radioshow has no significant impact, but when adding to the choir of other ill informed discontent, it is damaging.

      But we will see who is shamed in the end.

      • The FBI agents at Ruby Ridge all got awards too.

      • Mats002

        How many procenteges of all words said in this production do we have here? 0.01% ?
        Good journalism indeed.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Somehow and one day the hall of shame of cold fusion deniers shall be available for all to see.
        Never again, we keep saying. And then turncoats will be everywhere, babbling.

    • Donald T

      No, its not. It´s a sign of a healthy debate climate. At this stage to “believe” in LENR is actually to believe. We have to wait further conclusive evidence.

      • Mats002

        You might need to change your statement to ‘believe in Rossi’, which is the focus of that production. LENR as in all work made since 1989 was not covered.

        • Freethinker

          25 years of LENR research was covered textually on their web site, and completely dismissed. The same old same, pseudo science story. They spent a lot of time chasing down people who would throw mud on Rossi’s name. The spent about NIL in understanding the current status of LENR.

          They are guilty of history revision. It is extra disturbing as they are public service, and in the eyes of most it represent the consensus and even the opinion of the state. You know. Telling you, the witless sheeple, the correct position to hold on this subject.

          It is not a matter of healthy debate. It is a hit piece, and nothing else. Had their intention been to foster a healthy debate climate, then they should do what their charter dictates and what every Swede expect from them: Show fairness, and give both sides of the story, as it is a very polarized subject. They failed.

  • Gerard McEk

    The more reason to replicate Parkhomov ASAP. I wonder what will happen than in Sweden.
    It is strange that the scientists who contributed so much to the LENR community are so fiercely attacked by the media. Perhaps another critical journalist will investigate that?

    • Freethinker

      The whole thing is grotesque. The responsible people should be fired. Instead they are rewarded.

      Soon enough they will be laughed at. Fine. I’d rather see them punished, since this is not an honest mistake, this is in my view a premeditated and organized hitpiece. One would assume that their petty little radioshow has no significant impact, but when adding to the choir of other ill informed discontent, it is damaging.

      But we will see who is shamed in the end.

      • The FBI agents at Ruby Ridge all got awards too.

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        Somehow and one day the hall of shame of cold fusion deniers shall be available for all to see.
        Never again, we keep saying. And then turncoats will be everywhere, babbling.

    • Donald T

      No, its not. It´s a sign of a healthy debate climate. At this stage to “believe” in LENR is actually to believe. We have to wait further conclusive evidence.

      • Mats002

        You might need to change your statement to ‘believe in Rossi’, which is the focus of that production. LENR as in all work made since 1989 was not covered.

        • Freethinker

          25 years of LENR research was covered textually on their web site, and completely dismissed. The same old same, pseudo science story. They spent a lot of time chasing down people who would throw mud on Rossi’s name. The spent about NIL in understanding the current status of LENR.

          They are guilty of history revision. It is extra disturbing as they are public service, and in the eyes of most it represent the consensus and even the opinion of the state. You know. Telling you, the witless sheeple, the correct position to hold on this subject.

          It is not a matter of healthy debate. It is a hit piece, and nothing else. Had their intention been to foster a healthy debate climate, then they should do what their charter dictates and what every Swede expect from them: Show fairness, and give both sides of the story, as it is a very polarized subject. They failed.

        • Mark Underwood

          Actually it was covered, in the last of the four transcripts:

          *********
          Interviewer:

          But what is it then that make it possible for this Andrea Rossi to manage to fool so many, apparently insightful, individuals?

          Ulrika Björkstén:

          Well, it is enormously strange, he must have some kind of charming personality, or something, that makes people to listen. Because there are foury very clear warning flags. The first is this with cold fusion story, that made us to decline reporting on this. It is an area where it repeatedly since 1989… there have been these people claiming they have cold fusion, and it has never proven to be any truth in it. And you usually say that the more strange claims you have the more the evidence must be shown. There is no reason to report on such experiments until there are credible evidence.

          ****************

          • Mats002

            How many procenteges of all words said in this production do we have here? 0.01% ?
            Good journalism indeed.

          • Omega Z

            Add about 30 years & all the claims that have been made & change cold fusion to hot fusion-

            And you usually say that the more strange claims you have the more the evidence must be shown.
            There is no reason to report on such experiments until there are credible evidence.

          • Gerrit

            no no no, that’s not covered. Covered would mean that they talk to Dennis Bushnell, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein, Mike McKubre and ask them about LENR.

            Asking an incompetent science journalist about a topic she has not the faintest clue about is not equal to covering a story.

          • Mark Underwood

            Yes rather that ‘covered’ I suppose ‘addressed’ would have been the better term. Twenty five years of provocative LENR results dismissed in a sentence or two, amazing.

    • LookMoo

      This how it works in Sweden. About 2000 person runs Sweden. 70% of all journalist are communists or green party (meanwhile get like 10% in election). Just like in Greece they use government resources to run their own agenda (they call it “agenda journalism”). In Greece they abolish the national TV organisation as it had become a undemocratic subversive clan, in Sweden we have the same problem.

      The reason for attacking LENR is because it threatens the Green and Communist party core philosophy of a low energy society based on collectivism.The LENR is EXTREMELY bad news for for them. Their ideology is unlikely to survive a introduction of LENR.

      • GreenWin

        I think you are correct LookMoo. In fact, essentially ALL “Green” organizations have turned a blind eye to LENR because it empowers the individual – and NOT the State or Central authority. IF human beings are allowed to return to the independence of the single family farm of a century ago – collectivism suffers — or dies.

        • bachcole

          Green organizations will come to LENR when enough people make them come to LENR.

          • LookMoo

            Politics is BUSINESS.. Green and communist have to re-form their business model. The problem is.. can they can become credible in their new attire.

  • pg

    To paraphrase White Goodman, this is just a “skidmark on the underpants of science”.

  • pg

    To paraphrase White Goodman, this is just a “skidmark on the underpants of science”.

  • bachcole

    I hate to see people set themselves up for a serious fall.

    • Mark Underwood

      Me too. Somebody will be on the wrong side of history on this one, and I believe it will be the LENR skeptics. I like investigative journalism and wish there was more of it. But VetenskapsRadion is also after a ‘story’, and in many stories there is a protagonist and antagonist. VetenskapsRadion has made their villian Andre Rossi, and they themselves the good guys, protecting the Swedish public from being led astray.

      But there is another kind of pride here, and it is the pride of not being ‘taken in’. That pride is not allowing the door to be opened, not even a crack. Thus to them the hundreds of LENR experiments since 1989 have not been believable, period. To them they are protecting the Swedish public, not from the possibility of deception, but from deception.

      Personally I would rather get my hopes up and be subsequently let down than succumb to that kind of pride, because it is at the expense of other people. It one foul swoop it runs roughshod over hundreds of well meaning, intelligent, forward looking souls who at substantial personal cost have sought answers to the energy and environmental problems that face us.

      Yes there are some real villains in the world, predators who serve their own interests at the expense of others. To VetenskapsRadion I would say, find the real villains next time.

  • GreenWin

    Of no less importance but from a slightly different industry, The Three Stooges were honored for clowning their “hare-brained” way through 200 short and 25 movies on August 31, 1983. A “Golden Shovel” award is appropriate for those who can pile the most fertilizer atop the truth. http://bit.ly/1Bnzos0

  • GreenWin

    Of no less importance but from a slightly different industry, The Three Stooges were honored for clowning their “hare-brained” way through 200 short and 25 movies on August 31, 1983. A “Golden Shovel” award is appropriate for those who can pile the most fertilizer atop the truth. http://bit.ly/1Bnzos0

  • georgehants

    Corruption in the media is killing ethical journalism, says EJN
    “that exposes how media managers are doing “deals” with advertisers to carry paid-for material disguised as news, how editors are being bribed by politicians or corporate managers and how this whole process makes it increasingly difficult to separate journalism from propaganda from public relations.”
    http://europeanjournalists.org/blog/2015/03/16/corruption-in-the-media-is-killing-ethical-journalism-says-ejn/

    • Donald T

      Please…. this is a public service media organisation. They can be accused of being overly sceptic but not going capitalist errands.

  • georgehants

    Corruption in the media is killing ethical journalism, says EJN
    “that exposes how media managers are doing “deals” with advertisers to carry paid-for material disguised as news, how editors are being bribed by politicians or corporate managers and how this whole process makes it increasingly difficult to separate journalism from propaganda from public relations.”
    http://europeanjournalists.org/blog/2015/03/16/corruption-in-the-media-is-killing-ethical-journalism-says-ejn/

    • Donald T

      Please…. this is a public service media organisation. They can be accused of being overly sceptic but not going capitalist errands.

      • orsobubu

        But every State has exactly this function, to be a business committee in the interests of the various capitalistic fractions, and all its apparatuses are functional to maintaining the grasp over workers, using media, school, law, taxes, police, etc. When there is a crisis, a danger, the State kicks in, and since it is administered by bouracracies elected by fooled citizens, nobody can do anything. The political overstructure is grounded on the economic structure.

      • Right.

  • Mark

    If someone is respected by the mainstream they are automatically suspect, in my book.

  • Karl

    This is just a shameful joke and a further conformation why so many turn away from the corrupted MSM to have any kind of truthful information.

  • Karl

    This is just a shameful joke and a further conformation why so many turn away from the corrupted MSM to have any kind of truthful information.

  • Bob

    Any news from B. Ahern? I believe it has been a week since it was posted that he was starting a test.
    The more tests that different people have that show positive tests, the more difficult it will be for MSM to ignore this.

    I would think that after a week, he would have something to report… “positive or negative” 🙂

    • Obvious

      If we are really lucky, he is still calibrating.

  • Bob

    Any news from B. Ahern? I believe it has been a week since it was posted that he was starting a test.
    The more tests that different people have that show positive tests, the more difficult it will be for MSM to ignore this.

    I would think that after a week, he would have something to report… “positive or negative” 🙂

    • Obvious

      If we are really lucky, he is still calibrating.

  • Robert Ellefson

    On the bright side, Mats doesn’t need to do anything once the truth is undeniable any longer, and these fools will have egg on their face that they are wearing with pride, that was placed there by professional associations that will also have self-applied egg-on-face. I wish the Pulitzer could be awarded for work outside the US, because that would be a fitting response to the BS-shovels. Then again, there is the Nobel for Literature… I wonder how many past recipients we would need to lobby before one of them nominated Mats?

    • f sedei

      Not at all surprising. I would like to see a head count of those still believing the earth is flat.

  • ColdFusionVideos

    The guy who was responsible for the research behind this program, Marcus Hansson, was actually invited, free of charge, to visit a real lab, and bring engineers to do real measurements.

    Not by the Lugano Team, or Andrea Rossi, but by a Russian lead team.

    Marcus Hansson was not interested in that, and turned down that offer.

    • Interesting. Not surprised he declined…

      • Mats Hilmersson

        Have you ever considered to make a story like 60 minutes did? Find a new Robert Duncan, a well respected sceptic from the establishment. Find the best measurement technician/engineer from SP or Intertek. Team up and visit Parkhomov and make a measurement. Elforsk could pay the tickets.

        • GreenWin

          I think you are correct LookMoo. In fact, essentially ALL “Green” organizations have turned a blind eye to LENR because it empowers the individual – and NOT the State or Central authority. IF human beings are allowed to return to the independence of the single family farm of a century ago – collectivism suffers — or dies.

          • Gerrit

            I have noted that many people do not want to hear that “cold fusion is real”, because they think only idiots could believe that. They have lost their capability for reason.

            Other people simply don’t care, they have more important things in their lives. I think that is a valid point of view, because there are numerous very important things in the world that I don’t really care about.

            There are not so many people who are capable of questioning their own point of view.

            This is just tabloid journalism pretending to be investigative journalism. Feed the masses.

          • Chris Reid

            My old Grandad used to tell me ” There’s a lot you can do with a box of eggs and a big stick

          • bkrharold

            Your old Grandad was right, you can get in a world of trouble dabbling in the occult. But there is nothing supernatural about LENR, this is a real measurable physical effect, even though there is no scientific explanation yet.

      • Chris Reid

        Cheer up Mats, look on the bright side, it’s his loss, not yours by a long chalk ! Together on this site we can really get our heads together and go to town….. Of course the E-cat damned well works ! Also it burns next to no fuel without degrading the catalyst…. Neither does it defy 1st 2nd or 3rd Laws of thermodynamics ! ( Not strictly speaking. ) I’ve been digging all the juicy bits out on Wikipedia !

        I just need a copy of your book now to help in my studies ! I’m a bit skint at the moment, family problems, life hasn’t been treating me too kindly, I can wait… Not for too long I hope

        • Gerrit

          no no no, that’s not covered. Covered would mean that they talk to Dennis Bushnell, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein, Mike McKubre and ask them about LENR.

          Asking an incompetent science journalist about a topic she has not the faintest clue about is not equal to covering a story.

  • ColdFusionVideosDotcom

    The researcher / journalist behind this program, Mr Marcus Hansson, was actually invited, to visit a lab.
    Not by the Lugano Team, or Andrea Rossi, but by another team.
    The only condition for this offer was that he would have to report about what they saw.
    He did not take the offer.

    • Interesting. Not surprised he declined…

      • Mats Hilmersson

        Have you ever considered to run a story like 60 minutes did? Find a new Robert Duncan, a well respected sceptic from the establishment. Find the best measurement technician/engineer from SP or Intertek. Team up and visit Parkhomov and make a measurement. Elforsk could pay the tickets.

      • Chris Reid

        Cheer up Mats, look on the bright side, it’s his loss, not yours by a long chalk ! Together on this site we can really get our heads together and go to town….. Of course the E-cat damned well works ! Also it burns next to no fuel without degrading the catalyst…. Neither does it defy 1st 2nd or 3rd Laws of thermodynamics ! ( Not strictly speaking. ) I’ve been digging all the juicy bits out on Wikipedia !

        I just need a copy of your book now to help in my studies ! I’m a bit skint at the moment, family problems, life hasn’t been treating me too kindly, I can wait… Not for too long I hope 😀

        Take care, the finishing post is in sight now, get the Mainstream on board and they’ll all want a slice of the pie, we are on the cusp of a Monumentous World Changing Event, the rats will be running in all directions, the takers will become the providers. You mark my words !

        You may think I’m crazy, off my head, but I’ve been waiting for this moment to come along for a long time, after all there is nothing wrong with being Spiritual or Psychic, or both even ! It’s just that the powers that be, (PTB) would rather see people like myself locked away in a Lunatic Assylum, while they, the PTB can congratulate themselves on a job well done ! Maybe they can Treat the Bankers to a higher Bonus payout !
        Of course the now ailing fossil fuel industry is beginning to feel the pinch now, More EU bailouts I guess, NOT ON MY WATCH !

        I hope I haven’t offended you in any way apologies in advance 😃

        Take care now, I must catch some zzz’s it’s 03:45 almost, g’night 😔zzzzzz

  • Andrea

    Rubbish

  • Andrea

    Rubbish

  • Billy Jackson

    honest skepticism is healthy for an on going debate and incremental research. If we are never questioned then we may miss answers that lead us to new insights.

    I will restate my stance. Blind refusal to accept and process the evidience is as bad as blind adhearance to all things Rossi. Neither has a place in the debate. We must be willing to question our own knowledge and test it against the evidence presented. Failure to do so is a disservice to your own honesty and your professed support for Mr. Rossi.

    Passion has its place, I for one will be more than happy to pop a champagne bottle and dance a jig by the highway with nothing on but a pair of pom poms and a smile, if we see multiple conformations soon. Yet until then this is a numbers, calculations, and assesment game that has us holding the edge of our seats waiting once again.

  • Billy Jackson

    honest skepticism is healthy for an on going debate and incremental research. If we are never questioned then we may miss answers that lead us to new insights.

    I will restate my stance. Blind refusal to accept and process the evidience is as bad as blind adhearance to all things Rossi. Neither has a place in the debate. We must be willing to question our own knowledge and test it against the evidence presented. Failure to do so is a disservice to your own honesty and your professed support for Mr. Rossi.

    Passion has its place, I for one will be more than happy to pop a champagne bottle and dance a jig by the highway with nothing on but a pair of pom poms and a smile, if we see multiple conformations soon. Yet until then this is a numbers, calculations, and assesment game that has us holding the edge of our seats waiting once again.

    • Chris Reid

      Very true. Money is the root of all evil, this has been a delay for 115 years at least ! We should all hang our heads in shame !

  • Right!

  • William D. Fleming

    Gold shovels are showy, but for digging out the truth steel shovels are needed. They missed the mark. It’s a minor thing–let it go.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      nickel or palladium shovels methinks. possibly titanium.

      • Chris Reid

        Much stronger and lighter

  • William D. Fleming

    Gold shovels are showy, but for digging out the truth steel shovels are needed. They missed the mark. It’s a minor thing–let it go.

    • NCY

      nickel or palladium shovels methinks. possibly titanium.

      • Chris Reid

        Much stronger and lighter 😀

  • Ophelia Rump

    “When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.”
    ― Will Rogers

    • NCY

      i like this quote a lot.

      • GreenWin

        Me too! Thank you Ms. Rump. You are a persistent source of humor and wisdom.

    • Chris Reid

      LOL @ Ophelia 😄 😄
      Or the same could be said about rats on a sinking ship, the thing is, will the Mainstream Sciece community along with their corrupt sponsors. Change is on its way I’ve worked out a cunning plan that can indeed set the ball rolling ! As my old Grandad used to say, ” You can do a lot with a box of eggs and a big stick ! ”

      Take a look at my other posts on this site, all constructive criticism most welcome 😃

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Good for them. Maybe Airbus could give them 1st class seats on the maiden voyage of their

    LENR powered jumbo jet.

    • Chris Reid

      I’ve just heard the news about the German A-320 Airbus crash in the Alps, my heart reaches out for all those 150 unfortunate souls who lost their lives…………
      I don’t believe for 1 nanosecond that that’s the end………. Believe in God, always…….. Secular thoughts feed Human Greed !!
      Always try to think Spiritual Thoughts, especially when you’re feeling down…..

      • HS61AF91

        What a tragedy. I pray for their souls, and also that the strikes had no
        influence (as in not so recently experienced relief pilot, from a
        non-flying executive job, replacing a striking pilot). Because if the
        strike influenced this disaster, then successful negotiations should have
        concluded prior to this tragedy, and its consequences, a horrible lessen
        learned.

  • Obvious

    If you want to see if the tiger has any teeth, poke him with a stick.

    • Omega Z

      Obvious
      I will provide the stick,
      You can have the honors… 🙂

  • Obvious

    If you want to see if the tiger has any teeth, poke him with a stick.

    • Omega Z

      Obvious
      I will provide the stick,
      You can have the honors… 🙂

  • Gerrit

    I have noted that many people do not want to hear that “cold fusion is real”, because they think only idiots could believe that. They have lost their capability for reason.

    Other people simply don’t care, they have more important things in their lives. I think that is a valid point of view, because there are numerous very important things in the world that I don’t really care about.

    There are not so many people who are capable of questioning their own point of view.

    This is just tabloid journalism pretending to be investigative journalism. Feed the masses.

    • Chris Reid

      My old Grandad used to tell me ” There’s a lot you can do with a box of eggs and a big stick 😃 “.
      Also he warned me from dabbling in the occult, ‘ Son, just stay away, don’t get involved, you’ll let loose forces you might not be able to control “. Well I’m still here in one piece [ almost ] !!!

      There’s going to be a lot of famous scientists wearing egg on their faces !!!!

      • bkrharold

        Your old Grandad was right, you can get in a world of trouble dabbling in the occult. But there is nothing supernatural about LENR, this is a real measurable physical effect, even though there is no scientific explanation yet.

  • Thomas Clarke

    It is unhelpful to personalise science. That applies to those who dismiss LENR because of its past history as much as to those who believe LENR is not taken seriously by scientists because of an exaggerated conspiracy theory.

    As science – LENR has a very high barrier to surmount because the “expected” experimental evidence for it has never been shown in a replicable form. By that I mean clear evidence of nuclear transmutation, or high energy particle emissions.

    Were such evidence available scientists would need to explain it and LENR would be pretty well the only possibility.

    There are enough people convinced by the “there must be something from all these experiments” that at least we now have a very few people working to generate replicable data (MFMP, a few others). Who have so far not succeeded in replicating anything, but have in the process discovered a good number of false positives.

    I’m comfortable, from this, that weird phenomena that no-one believes are being pretty well investigated. Where I’m less comfortable is that the last 30 years LENR research has thrown up many claimed positives but no-one who has stuck with just one positive and cross-checked the experimental methodology, adding alternate instrumentation etc, until the results are undeniably positive. Either no-one was interested in doing this, or those who did it found negative results. The lack of checking is annoying. The fact that LENR has been so elusive experimentally should give everyone pause for thought. Whatever the mechanism nuclear reactions are intrinsically very easy to detect.

    The current interest in massive Ni/LiAlH4 excess heat is encouraging. It is easily replicated and either will have definite positive results, which would be very exciting, or show negative results, in which case that will help those who pin hopes on experiments without very careful cross-checking (and that includes all Rossi’s demos, which are not cross-checked and all have known possible error mechanisms) to be more realistic.

    I disagree that skeptics specifically are not questioning their point of view. Some, no doubt, are not. And many, no doubt, have just lost interest after so many years of no results. I’d like to see those here who accept positive results without question, dismissing possible error mechanisms without detailed analysis, to show more of an interest in the science, and more openness to the possibility that those working in this area (e.g. Rossi) may be thoroughly self-deluded and therefore deluding others.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      The argument “Rossi may be self deluded” might have merit if he was the only proponent of LENR.

      With dozens of high ranking corporations and scientists (Mitsubishi/Toyota/Honda/NASA/etc.) all claiming they have seen positive LENR results, then we should be able to remove Rossi from the equation entirely.

      Everyone “researching” LENR fraud immediately comes upon the website of Steven Krivit who endorses LENR (in his own books) but vehemently describes Rossi as a fraud.

      – Andrea Rossi was very rich before worth $30 million USD. He did not run to hawaii (his Visa handed to him by The President of the United States), he continued environmental science. If his only concern was money he could have retired rich in his 30’s.

      – When Italys mafia took his waste management business by making his storage illegal (Apparently “The Mafia” reaches as far as Italy (who knew?), and they apparently like to control waste management in many countries) Andrea Rossi faced and beat all his Environment charges, when he could have hid in the U.S.A. (remember the VISA the President Carter gave him.).

      – All of Andrea Rossi science is common theme of environmental science.

      – Many scam corporations think to raise money (scam) by selling shares. This scam was common with mining companies. Tell everyone you found a rich vein then sell shares then pay yourself a million in salary and go broke. Andrea Rossi has not sold or tried to sell any shares in Leonardo corporation. This would be easiest scam opportunity.

      – Andrea Rossi is immigrating to the US where anti fraud laws are extremely tough.

      – Andrea Rossi funded the first 5 years of this from his own pocket including hiring Focardi.

      Scammers have a history of using other peoples money for scams, and Andrea Rossi has used his own.

      Since Andrea Rossi made the Nickel/Hydrogen version of LENR popular in 2011, we have seen many unrelated labs confirm this is indeed possible and very effective. So he is on the right track according to many.

      So why should Rossi have anything to do with it? His “self delusion” did not cause Toyota to verify the LENR findings of Mitsubishi as was presented at the CERN LENR presentation a few years back. Toyota (I will remind you) hired Martin Fleischmann (as in Pons/Fleischmann) after he was tarred and feathered in 1989 for suggesting Cold Fusion seemed possible even though they could only replicate it about 0.5% of the time back then.

      At least you are not pointing at the criminal accusations against Rossi,

      NASA (National Aeronautic and Space Administration) has sent vehicles out of our solar system and has landed cars on mars. It is likely they hire scientists who are not self deluded, and yet here is a letter from THE CHIEF RESEARCH SCIENTIST AT NASA LANGLEY (Dr. Dennis Bushnell).
      http://newenergytimes.com/v2/inthenews/2012/201205NASA-Dennis-Bushnell-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reactions-the-Realism-and-the-Outlook.pdf

      We also know NASA is funding LENR from Freedom of Information Act, and also…
      “In early 2013, The Aeronautical Systems Analysis Branch of NASA Langley Research Center received $150.000 in funding for research on the concept project of a Low energy Nuclear Reaction [LENR] Aircraft.”

      I could go on for hours describing MIT Professor Peter Hagelstein who runs LENR and teaches LENR at MIT and dozens of others who are on the front lines of research in this field.

      The notion that we are BLIND FOLLOWERS of LENR is absurd at best. Accepting results without question is not what is occurring. Common sense dictates (as in the Dennis Bushnell letter) that LENR does exist. Is Dennis Bushnell, and peter Hagelstein among hundreds accepting results without question?

      Bit absurd.

  • Thomas Clarke

    It is unhelpful to personalise science. That applies to those who dismiss LENR because of its past history as much as to those who believe LENR is not taken seriously by scientists because of an exaggerated conspiracy theory.

    As science – LENR has a very high barrier to surmount because the “expected” experimental evidence for it has never been shown in a replicable form. By that I mean clear evidence of nuclear transmutation, or high energy particle emissions.

    Were such evidence available scientists would need to explain it and LENR would be pretty well the only possibility.

    There are enough people convinced by the “there must be something from all these experiments” that at least we now have a very few people working to generate replicable data (MFMP, a few others). Who have so far not succeeded in replicating anything, but have in the process discovered a good number of false positives.

    I’m comfortable, from this, that weird phenomena that no-one believes are being pretty well investigated. Where I’m less comfortable is that the last 30 years LENR research has thrown up many claimed positives but no-one who has stuck with just one positive and cross-checked the experimental methodology, adding alternate instrumentation etc, until the results are undeniably positive. Either no-one was interested in doing this, or those who did it found negative results. The lack of checking is annoying. The fact that LENR has been so elusive experimentally should give everyone pause for thought. Whatever the mechanism nuclear reactions are intrinsically very easy to detect.

    The current interest in massive Ni/LiAlH4 excess heat is encouraging. It is easily replicated and either will have definite positive results, which would be very exciting, or show negative results, in which case that will help those who pin hopes on experiments without very careful cross-checking (and that includes all Rossi’s demos, which are not cross-checked and all have known possible error mechanisms) to be more realistic.

    I disagree that skeptics specifically are not questioning their point of view. Some, no doubt, are not. And many, no doubt, have just lost interest after so many years of no results. I’d like to see those here who accept positive results without question, dismissing possible error mechanisms without detailed analysis, to show more of an interest in the science, and more openness to the possibility that those working in this area (e.g. Rossi) may be thoroughly self-deluded and therefore deluding others.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      The argument “Rossi may be self deluded” might have merit if he was the only proponent of LENR.

      With dozens of high ranking corporations and scientists (Mitsubishi/Toyota/Honda/NASA/etc.) all claiming they have seen positive LENR results, then we should be able to remove Rossi from the equation entirely.

      Everyone “researching” LENR fraud immediately comes upon the website of Steven Krivit who endorses LENR (in his own books) but vehemently describes Rossi as a fraud.

      – Andrea Rossi was very rich before worth $30 million USD. He did not run to hawaii (his Visa handed to him by The President of the United States), he continued environmental science. If his only concern was money he could have retired rich in his 30’s.

      – When Italys mafia took his waste management business by making his storage illegal (Apparently “The Mafia” reaches as far as Italy (who knew?), and they apparently like to control waste management in many countries) Andrea Rossi faced and beat all his Environment charges, when he could have hid in the U.S.A. (remember the VISA the President Carter gave him.).

      – All of Andrea Rossi science is common theme of environmental science.

      – Many scam corporations think to raise money (scam) by selling shares. This scam was common with mining companies. Tell everyone you found a rich vein then sell shares then pay yourself a million in salary and go broke. Andrea Rossi has not sold or tried to sell any shares in Leonardo corporation. This would be easiest scam opportunity.

      – Andrea Rossi is immigrating to the US where anti fraud laws are extremely tough.

      – Andrea Rossi funded the first 5 years of this from his own pocket including hiring Focardi.

      Scammers have a history of using other peoples money for scams, and Andrea Rossi has used his own.

      Since Andrea Rossi made the Nickel/Hydrogen version of LENR popular in 2011, we have seen many unrelated labs confirm this is indeed possible and very effective. So he is on the right track according to many.

      So why should Rossi have anything to do with it? His “self delusion” did not cause Toyota to verify the LENR findings of Mitsubishi as was presented at the CERN LENR presentation a few years back. Toyota (I will remind you) hired Martin Fleischmann (as in Pons/Fleischmann) after he was tarred and feathered in 1989 for suggesting Cold Fusion seemed possible even though they could only replicate it about 0.5% of the time back then.

      At least you are not pointing at the criminal accusations against Rossi,

      NASA (National Aeronautic and Space Administration) has sent vehicles out of our solar system and has landed cars on mars. It is likely they hire scientists who are not self deluded, and yet here is a letter from THE CHIEF RESEARCH SCIENTIST AT NASA LANGLEY (Dr. Dennis Bushnell).
      http://newenergytimes.com/v2/inthenews/2012/201205NASA-Dennis-Bushnell-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reactions-the-Realism-and-the-Outlook.pdf

      We also know NASA is funding LENR from Freedom of Information Act, and also…
      “In early 2013, The Aeronautical Systems Analysis Branch of NASA Langley Research Center received $150.000 in funding for research on the concept project of a Low energy Nuclear Reaction [LENR] Aircraft.”

      I could go on for hours describing MIT Professor Peter Hagelstein who runs LENR and teaches LENR at MIT and dozens of others who are on the front lines of research in this field.

      The notion that we are BLIND FOLLOWERS of LENR is absurd at best. Accepting results without question is not what is occurring. Common sense dictates (as in the Dennis Bushnell letter) that LENR does exist. Is Dennis Bushnell, and peter Hagelstein among hundreds accepting results without question?

      Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist at NASA Langley Research Center…
      “By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR ‘Real?’ Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence. And, yes – with effects occurring from using diverse materials, methods of energy addition etc. ”

      These “skeptics” poked fun at Rossi and everyone who endorses LENR. This comment is better researched than the Radio Show that received its incredulously absurd award.

      Incredulously absurd.. Yah I said it.

      You also said in your comment that there is little evidence towards LENR. I will also address this comment. First of all The Journal Nature auto-rejects anything CF/LENR (period. end of discussion on that). Secondly; this is fringe science and when exploring new frontiers the documentation is not always there for us to peruse beforehand.

      Scientists were still saying flight was impossible at least 4 years after the flight at Kitty Hawk. Maybe their documented and notarized “evidence” was not hand delivered to their front doors.

      I will go a step further and suggest that there is such a plentiful amount of both real and empirical evidence out there to quickly learn the truth one way or the other for any investors/scientists eager enough to dig for it or make a few phone calls.

  • Stephen

    Shovels are useful even golden ones… They should be happy. Cheap energy and new physics is even more useful. I think LENR will have the last laugh.

  • Anteaus

    Well, we have the situation where wind and solar were massively promoted by businesses standing to gain from subsidies. This was achieved through a clever propaganda campaign in which ‘activist’ groups were paid to lobby governments to provide these subsidies. Yet, if anyone had examined the science properly, they would have seen that the promoters were playing-down the issues with the products, most notably that of intermittency.

    Now, wind and solar both ‘work’ in the sense that they generate electricity, however that is not the actual requirement, which is to replace coal and gas as energy sources. After trillions spent on this debacle, we now see that due to various limitations they cannot fulfil this role.

    Therefore, and for the same reasons, I think it is wise to be cautious about LENR claims. Though, the potential benefits of LENR are far greater than those of wind or solar, which makes it a more worthwhile area to investigate. There is after all no reason why a fully developed LENR implementation should not be able to produce reliable energy on demand.