Indian Government Agency Hosts Meeting to Find ‘Way Forward’ for Cold Fusion/LENR, Oversight Committee Formed.

In an article published in the Hindu BusinessLine science section yesterday there’s a report about a meeting of scientists held in Bangalore (Bengaluru) on April 7th hosted by the Indian Ministry of New and Renewable Energy to discuss cold fusion/LENR, which has been getting quite a lot of attention among senior scientists in India, especially since the journal Current Science published a special section on LENR in February of this year. The meeting was instigated by the Indian Power Minister, Piyush Goya.

The author, M. Ramesh writes:

About thirty scientists from all over India met in Bengaluru on Tuesday to discuss ‘the way forward’ in an emerging cheap and clean source of energy, called ‘low energy nuclear reactions’, or simply ‘cold fusion’. The meeting was chaired by Dr Anil Kakodkar, former Chairman of the Department of Atomic Energy.

The meeting was held at the instance of the Ministry of New and Renewable Energy, said Dr Baldev Raj, Director, National Institute of Advanced Studies, who co-chaired the meeting.

According to the article the outcome of the meeting was that there was felt to be a need to study LENR more, and one of the attendees, Dr. Mahadeva Srinivasan, reported that “four groups of institutions and scientists would get into cold fusion research and there would be an informal oversight committee”. One of these institutions is named as the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR)

The article also includes a brief overview of the history of cold fusion, from the Pons and Fleischmann announcement to the present, mentioning Rossi’s E-Cat, Alexander Parkhomov’s replication work, Texas Tech University’s Center for Emerging Energy Sciences (where they will study LENR) and the upcoming ICCF19 conference in Padua, Italy.

One statement in the article is to me still questionable. It states that the Bill Gates Foundation is taking part in the ICCF19 conference, but I see no mention of them on the meeting agenda. Perhaps they will be sending people to the conference, I suppose we will find out soon.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I guess it’s good news. But “oversight committee” brings to mind old Freeman Dyson quote “committees do harm merely by existing”…

    • Sanjeev

      This is the way the gov operates (especially in India). The first thing they do is to form a committee, this distributes the responsibility if something goes wrong, and prevents one man to take all the control. This also slows down everything by 1/100, as no decisions are taken for months.
      A single person with means and vision is more effective for such projects.

  • Gerrit

    The detailed program of ICCF19 still shows a “to be defined” on Thursday afternoon. The ICCF program, so far, doesn’t mention the CEES at TTU.

    Imagine how wonderful it would be if the “to be defined” would be filled with the announcement of CEES at TTU with Mike McKubre and funded by Bill Gates.

    • Josh G

      Well Bob Duncan (new Dean at TTU) is speaking Monday morning, so hopefully we’ll get to hear more details about what they’re planning.

  • Bob Greenyer


    • gian luca Gian Luca

      Very good!

      • bachcole

        Very forward moving!

    • Enrique Ferreyra

      When is your next try ?
      (dont have facebook, dont send me there 🙂

      • Bob Greenyer

        haha – me neither.

        Well – hopefully during ICCF19 in Padua!

        We have repeatedly written to the organisers asking for a venue but they have not even responded, not really happy with that – plus the airport strikes in France have meant that our PCE-830 is held in customs in Paris.

        • Obvious

          Whatever happened to the Optris? I hope the repairs needed were not too onerous or expensive.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Euros 1350 for repair – been chasing them, was meant to arrive today here.

            I am going to try and get them to send to Padua. Failing that, I’ll run some test from my place

          • Obvious

            Ouch. That’s quite a bit more than I had hoped.

        • Omega Z

          “plus the airport strikes in France have meant that our PCE-830 is held in customs in Paris.”

          Proof there is no limits to what they will do to suppress this technology or slow down the research.

          • Bob Greenyer

            hahah – yeh, it is unstoppable now!

          • It is a conspiracy.
            They tried to block me, and Jean Francois Geneste (Airbus) …

            They failed but not far

  • Ivan Idso

    Today is the LENRG meeting in Milan, Italy. They had teased a very big player to be announced, perhaps that will be Bill Gates? We should find out soon.

  • farhad66

    Caroly Witkowsky, a e-cat follower, asked Rossi on his JONP website in 2013:

    “It was a long time since you mentioned the matter of Nickel isotope enrichment for which you have developed an entirely new enrichment methodology. I was much intrigued by this and now I wonder, is it still required for your nuclear reactors ”

    Rossi reply : “nickel isotope enrichment is still necessary”

    • Axil Axil

      This statement is misleading. First, Rossi does not understand how Ni62 and Ni64 is produced. Second, the LENR reaction as produced by his system, automatically generates the heavy neutron rich isotopes. It is clear, Rossi does not control how these isotopes are formed except as a matter of applying appropriate chemistry to his fuel load.

      He recently said that he improved his earlier reactor design by modifying the fuel mix based on the results of the Lagano test…specifically the increased… or more accurately…total production of heavy nickel through the action of lithium.

    • Bob Greenyer

      As per Piantelli theory, it would make sense to have enriched Ni62 (or 64 since would tend to 62) but preferably 62, as the yield would be lower with other isotopes. With just Ni62, the Protons will be ejected to interact with the Al / Li both of which have higher yield than a proton being absorbed by other needy isotopes of Nickel (11 and 17MeV respectively instead of 8 for Ni).

      As was shown in Lugano, the yield from the reaction increases with time as Ni isotopes become 62. The lack of need for isotope enrichment has been experimentally shown by Parkhomov and he will show his elemental analysis so far at ICCF19.

      We have not said that Mg or Cl will have converted to Ni62, we have said they may have left the Lugano ash sampling zone for very clear reactor temperature distribution reasons, that of migration due to boiling and condensation of elements and compounds. We have said that it may be possible, using known reactions from the NNDC, that if proton projectiles are available, Ni, Fe and Mn may progress to 62Ni.

      The MFMP is not here to defend individual researchers or give credence to ad-hominem attacks based on pre-conception of what is possible given historical understanding. The purpose of the MFMP is to work with interested persons to impartially test the claims made in the field where there is consistency and the crowd feels that pursuit of truth is important.

      • Axil Axil

        I am interested in correlating experiment findings with theory. The experimental findings from Lagano are telling.The -H mechanism is very heavy and complicated. It would not be light enough to penetrate deeply into nickel to any signification depth because the extra electron that gives this form of hydrogen its negative charge. This extra electron would be disrupted and striped by the surface electron activity on the surface of the nickel particle.

        The nickel particle in the Lagano demo was pure Ni62 throughout its entire volume. This means that the particle that caused this isotopic change must be very light to penetrate so deeply into the entire bulk of the particle. -H cannot penetrate through a large mass of nickel without changing its essential charter, Furthermore, the surface features of the nickel particle(tubercles) there not affected by isotopic change in any way. That implies that the particle that causes isotopic change is very light, neutrally charged and penetrating.

        -H cannot be an actor in the LENR reaction.

        The particle that is the best candidate is the neutron. It must have been created on the surface of the nickel particle and have penetrated into the particle after being produced on the surface of the nickel particle by the LENR reaction centered there.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Piantelli specifically says that he may not be right, as is the mark of a true scientist, but his experiments support the hypothesis over many years and this in turn led to his theory.

          My question to you is, since you seem to be certain, how do you explain Piantelli’s empirically measured and photographed emitted protons from pure Nickel?

          Then my question would be if Protons are available at up to 6.7MeV as he has calculated and shown, how can you be certain that they would not play a role in observed outcomes.

          It is very hard to separate H- as playing a role in a system where you have molten Lithium and H2 – immediately LiH will form in some pressure/temperature related equilibrium – LiH is Li+ and H-. Given the fuel, you can’t easily get a scenario where H- is not present in abundance.

          • some people consider Lithium is just a catalyst to set the good conditions.
            You give a possible artgumentC.

            However we shoul all think in term of collective effects.
            If there is only few particles involved, it have to produce gamma and energetic particles.

            I feel that ideas of reaction with few bodies, may be right in a way, but should be merged with the collective quantum theories (like CQED, Widom/srivastava/swain, Ed storms hydroton)

            I feel it is time to merge the theories

          • Bob Greenyer

            I couldn’t agree more – the whole ‘no radiation’ question is baffling, with an experiment in hand that just works available to all, we could get to the bottom of this quickly.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Rossi on Oct 25 2014: “At those times I could not say other than what I said, due to IP constraints. As a matter of fact, the enrichment system is the process made by means of the ECat.”

      • farhad66

        what you expected he says other than this response after people seeing in lugano report that there is not enriched nickle in fuel ?

  • bfast

    I suspect that there is some confusion between Bill Gates and his namesake foundation. Bill Gates would love to be involved in the next technology wave. The Bill Gates Foundation is a charitable organization. While there surely will be application of LENR in the Foundation, I don’t think that the Foundation has any interest in early development of LENR.

    • Info I have is like you.
      probably not bill but an expert of his team.

      • Josh G

        …maybe Lowell Wood? Let us know if you spot him in the audience. Kind of hard to miss…

    • Bill Gates has invested his own personal money in LENR. The Gates Foundation is not involved in any way.

  • Ivan Idso

    Probably over by now… we await news. I see on another post that Alainco is there so we should get a report at some point.

  • finished,
    no bill gates, as planned 😉

    • Ivan Idso

      I have been waiting for some news from LENRG today, was there anything newsworthy? I had high hopes. Thanks.

      • I’ve ùade an article on Airbus contributon and exchange.

        the great news for the experimenters is that if one have a working reactor of COP>3, Airbus can provide an in-house developped 35%@1000°C efficient engine (little more with some improvements).

        They confirm their support to LENRG, but they raise requirements :

        – a good academic certfications (this is why they provide the engine)

        – efficient and light technology, for aerospace applications

        – a theory, even restricted, that explais what are important parameters and allows continuous improvements by engineers

        about the patent, basically no comment.

        of course it is based on lab work, and the patent is only on an improved control method… reactions is too much documeted already to be patented… He talk me of old result, like thermacore… this guys knows the subject 😉

        for the rest there have been presentation of the organization and the business model…

        LER-Cities will control the trajectory of the ecosystem, with a company neutral approach… They already have packages research programs, that are sold.
        the first is the “certification” like what Airbus demad and propose help…
        the second is on nuclear waste remediation.

        programes are containers that are funded by industrialists (and agencies) and which are associated to few scientific projects.
        here there are already universities that will work un UK, Italy, and even Switzerland…

        they will created a financial compat LENR-Invest which wll be separated from LENR cities, and which will be organizing an industrial crowdfunding of research programs, but also of industrial programs…

        Another idea that is they sell “life-insurance” for industrialists… they gives a fee, and if the risk of LENR is real they will have access at low cost to technology, and industrial infrastructures… It is like having an health insure in case you get old, to have access to a cheaper hospital room (because you own the walls)…

        their idea is that the most important is not to be the first to have a working reactor, but to be well organized to develop applications and create the market.

        It is not innovation like done with Edison… more like Uber&AirBnb…
        their approache is influences by digital economy business model… consumer centric (here the industrialist and scientists), sharing economy, viral developpement…

        imagine that you have a house with a free room and no money.
        a tourist have money but cannot call every individual room owner.

        AirBnb just propose a platform where you can ask for a room in your prefered place…. and if it march you will rent your room.

        LENR-Cities, LENR-Ventures

        • Ivan Idso

          Alainco, thank you so much for the detailed description!

          I have mixed feelings regarding Lenr cities. I think it is good to be prepared and to invest and plan for the future. My concern is that this may become the new cartel for lenr to replace the oil cartel.

          So I have a guarded optimism.

          • I thinks it is on the opposite the solution to your fears.
            LC is defending proudly it’s neutrality. this small compay cannot grow itself much, as it is just the control loop of the ecosystem.
            Note that they are not the investment fund, just the operative arm of the ecosystem.

            They explained that their big difference with Google or Apple ecosystem is that they have nothing to sell themselves, except the organzation, the rules of the game, the inception phase (done)…

            On the opposite a company, even small, who imagine it can block its opponents have the potential to create a cartel.

            LC cannot prevent anybody to do any business out of the eocsystem. simply if you are inside, you will share at good prices some valuable technologies, and sell at good price what you find, if you want… you can refuse and do business as usual.

            If you are jealous of the ecosystem, just get in.
            if it is too expensive, then members of the ecosystem will just make business with you directly, or build another ecosystem…

            it is like with uber… if the clients or the driver are not happy, they just have to leave and create a new platform. if really the old platfrm is abusive, then everybody will go to the new one…

            This is new economy… the crowd decide. platforme just relay the opinion of the crowd respectfully, and take the smallest share possible or is put out of the game by the crowd.

            They talk of Open IP, and this is a way to promote member to sell they IP in volume, at modest price, but also to use it when they need it without fear. Patent block innovation because people don’t want to pay too much… finally nothing is sold and patent is not exploited, and innovation not done.

            In the next to come article I will say more…

          • Ivan Idso

            Thank you Alainco, that is reassuring.

          • Michel Vandenberghe corrected my own statement, and explain their neutrality here


            it is important for them, to be neutral.

    • Sanjeev

      Any new player, big or small, announced ?

      • not new, but a UK university , an Italian University, to participate precise research programs…
        Those universities are linked to local technology cluster, so wif successful it can trigger big business interest.
        Two labs will be constructed in UK and Italy for that.

        I’ll prefer not to tell too much in case Sylvie coyaud call her best friends to kill those projects. She can kill a project more efficiently than Russian Mafia.

        One is very competent in energy technologies of all kind.
        another is good in nanostructured material, cavitation, analysis…

        the program on nuclear wast remediation is attracting much more countries than the LENR validation project… that is the power of nuke!

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda


          …demands to justify potential investments in what is defined as unrecognized theoretical research.

          CF is transformed in CiFuF, where FuF stands for ‘fuffa’ or hot air (where heat is not a result of LENR)

        • Sanjeev

          Great !
          The universities participation is a very good news.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi was genuinely supprized by the amount of NI62 that the Lagano fuel load produced. He said that he heeded to understand what was going on. Now he says that his older reactor design is running great with long periods of self sustain reaction. He must have added lithium to his old style fuel mix to produce lots of Ni62. This means that his older design did not produce Ni62 to as great a degree as the Lagano test.

    This also means that the Hot cat is a new design that has just been recently placed into the R&D cycle.

  • Josh G

    BTW, Dr. Mahadeva Srinivasan is a regular ICCF participant and goes by the nickname of Chino. I suspect he was likely the catalyst for this development. Here is an interesting interview Russ George conducted with him that gives a sense of his background in Cold Fusion research:

    Ah, and here is another statement from him in Current Science mentioning this upcoming meeting:

    And a write-up about him by Steven Krivit:

    • Bob Greenyer

      I know Srini is going to ICCF19, we spoke a few weeks back

  • bachcole

    I saw Maryyugo in an Hindu (yes, “Hindu”, “Hindu Daily” or something along that line) website comment section that was devoted to just this LENR awakening in India. This was a day ago or so. He/She was still ranting on about how it is all a con and Rossi is a convicted felon. I didn’t read much because I did not want to absorb his/her poison. The desperation that this individual displays is really quite ill.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Why was Carbon and Oxygen in the fuel and ash, why Nitrogen and Oxygen in the reactor is not a problem and why has Parkhomov possibly seen success where ‘purists’ have failed?

    []=Project Dog Bone=[]


    • Obvious

      Yep. The Parkhomov powder looks just like AH-50. A fair bit more carbon than usual, though. And AH-50 looks just like Rossi’s powder, but the cubes are not as well-formed.

    • Obvious

      That’s the carbon cycle star formula, yes?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes – there is still the HUGE amount of missing gammas etc which is confusing everyone, Dr. Parkhomov especially.

        Of course, this is speculative and for discussion only as stated on the sheet and in writing with cautions phrasing.

        • Axil Axil

          I have explained how this gamma mitigation occurs. I must have not have gotten through to you.

          • Bob Greenyer

            quite possibly, I haven’t had much time in months!

          • Axil Axil

            Like so many LENR theories, the Cook theory of the LENR reaction is not fundamental. Like almost all other LENR theories, it deals with the emergent results of the fundamental LENR reaction without explaining the cause of the observed experimental results.

            If a theory cannot explain EVERY aspect of the experimental results in every dimension, it is not valid.

            In particular, the way energy of these high powered alpha particles are converted to heat is not addressed, even though that part of the LENR theory is central to how the energy of the nuclear reaction is converted to soft x-rays and extreme ultraviolet light.

            I have concluded from the experimental results derived from many LENR systems that the gamma suppression and the basic LENR nuclear reaction is tightly coupled together so that if a LENR based nuclear event occurs, no gamma is ever seen in a environment that has gotten hot enough (500C).

            Post 1

            Gamma suppression is an essential part of the LENR reaction. So Gamma suppression is an essential part of what is going on inside the Nuclear Active Environment. If energy is carried away from the NAE, it cannot be converted to its final moderated form (soft x-rays and extreme ultraviolet light.) by the LENR reaction.

            Cook says that high energy alpha particles exit the NAE at high energy and deliver their energy to the far field at an some indeterminate distance from the NAE that produced the energy. If this were true, there is always a slight chance that the alpha particle could exit the gas envelop and deposit its kinetic energy in the Alumina shell where a gamma ray would result. This gamma ray is never seen. So if an alpha particle is produced it must have little or no kinetic energy that is transferred to the far field.

            All the energy of the nuclear reaction is carried away from the NAE by the LENR reaction itself. The gamma emission or better said, the lack of gamma emissions, is an intrinsic part of the LENR reaction energy transfer mechanism.

            Post 2

            I believe as follows:

            The magnetic fields produced by SPP solitons catalyze nuclear reactions in matter that this field falls upon. The soliton is PUMPED by heat photons.

            The soliton produces two kinds of magnetic photons: real and virtual. The power of the anapole magnetic field is proportional to the pumping of the heat and the nuclear power feeding energy into the SPPs.

            At a very low power level, more real magnetic photons are produced by the soliton than virtual photons. It is the virtual magnetic photons that produce the EMF pathway that allows the power produce by the nuclear reactions in matter to be transmitted back to the soliton on the anapole magnetic beam. When there are little or no virtual magnetic photons produced in a very weak SPP soliton, the energy produced by the nuclear reaction is lost to the far field as gamma radiation.

            As the strength of the soliton increases, more virtual photons are produced and the production rate of virtual photons becomes high enough to generate a transmission path between the nuclear reaction and the soliton.

            The temperature of the reactor must be beyond the virtual particle production threshold before the reaction is started. the reaction begins when nanoparticles are produce that carry the LENR reaction. In the case of DGT technology, that rydberg matter production starts with the beginning of pulsed spark generation.

            In the Rossi reaction, this timing between real and virtual particle production is determined by the type of secret sauce used. The temperature level that generates nanoparticles must be greater than the temperature needed to produce virtual magnetic photons in the soliton.

            New post

            Piantelli saw a 6 MeV proton because the bar he put in the cloud chamber cooled below the gamma suppression level but the nuclear reaction of the conversion of nickel to copper still was strong enough occurred. Two protons entered the nickel nucleus. One produce binding energy release upon nickel to copper transmutation and the other proton carried that energy out of the nucleus and was shown in the cloud chamber.

          • Bob Greenyer

            How would you suggest designing an experiment to test this hypothesis?

          • Axil Axil

            Once we get a LENR reaction going, lower its operational temperature until gamma’s are produced.

          • Josh G

            Doesn’t the Airbus patent show (with detailed calculations) that when they reduced the operating/input temperature to a certain point, their system produced gammas?

          • In the description of the context they talk of 500K for NiH (1000K for nanotube)

            “[0049]It is assumed that in case of faulty control or monitoring and control of a dangerous radiation fields can be generated.
            A dangerous radiation may occur if no collective absorption of electromagnetic radiation occurs.
            This is particularly the case, if not, the reaction space is at a suitable operating temperature.
            An operating temperature is a temperature above a critical temperature for LENR processes.
            Customarily, particularly for Ni-catalyzed processes such operating temperatures at about 500 K or above.
            In processes using carbon nanotubes, typical operating temperatures around 1000 K. Depending on the material are also lower temperatures imagine that will lie above the Debye temperature.”

            but it is just talking of the context (their consider that as prior knowledge).

            their patent consider that as a problems and provide a solution that they patent.

            note that in LENRG conferences Luca Gamberale talk a little of theory and to something that I’ve heard many times (Pam Boss,…) that it seems Heat and radiation are anti-corelated;

            it is for him because LENR when it works is a collective quantum effect, which distribute the energy of one fusion to a population of particles described by only one wavefunction, which thus can radiate it as lower energy quanta.

            when the collective coupling is not good, it radiates like hot fusion and produce few heat…when it is all synchronized, entangled, collective, fusion energy is distributed to the group and dissipated slowly.

            this is not so different from the idea of Edmund Storms (who propose more details on the place and kind of structure involved), and even Electroweak LENR theory of Widom Srivastava Swain.

            Luca found that video which is very clear for those familiar with quantum physics and collective effects


            in his vision many particles, if connected in a way by energy exchange, can finally behave like a single big object, with just some anomalies that raise the total energy …

            the synchronized metronomes are an examble of such emerging entanglement between partcles…
            if you see on the video the lone rebel metronome , it is one of the last excited energy level, and the system quickly dissipate that energy to fall in the bottom level where all is synchronized…

            now imagine that just one metronome is touched, dephased. all the group will be impacted and finally the group will have just a tiny change in the phase, and the impacted simple metronome will go back to nearly his previous phase , but the phase will not have disapeared, but will be distrubuted to the group.

            Luca Gamberale talk of Collective QED

          • Axil Axil

            That is right out of DGT theory. I wonder if they independently came up with this idea, or if it was lifted from the DGT playbook?

          • Axil Axil

            Paintelli has also shown that weak dipole pumping produce gammas. This is very hard to explain in theory even when experiments show that it is happening.

          • Josh G

            Axil, I always enjoy reading your contributions, though I must admit that my mind is only capable of tentatively grasping your theory. When I read your comments I usually have to spend a lot of time reading up on Wikipedia about the concepts you use. It seems that the following sentence is really key to your emerging theory: “It is the virtual magnetic photons that produce the EMF pathway that allows the power produce by the nuclear reactions in matter to be transmitted back to the soliton on the anapole magnetic beam.”

            From what I understand, you are claiming that high frequency photons (aka gammas) are captured by the “EMF pathways” generated by the virtual magnetic photons and fed back into the system, inducing further reactions. I am wondering if you can unpack this a bit:

            1. What do mean by “virtual magentic photons”? Are they related to evanescent waves? (Wikipedia describes “virtual particles” almost as mathematical fudge factors used to make quantum mechanical equations work.)

            2. How are they produced and why is a high level of heat necessary to produce them?

            3. What is it about the virtual magnetic photons that makes them so crucial to the reaction as opposed to real photons?

            4. What is an “EMF pathway” and which EMF pathways do the virtual particles produce?

            5. How are those pathways able to capture and redirect gammas?

            6. If the gamma energy is being captured and fed back into the system to produce more nuclear reactions, then how is heat in the form of phonons generated from the reaction?

            I do not offer these questions with critical intent. I am simply trying to understand your theory. Thank you!

          • Axil Axil

            If you have time, read the following:


            Virtual Particles: Not Particles At All


            Virtual Particles: What are they?

            This is difficult stuff so I will get the idea accross with a analigy.

            On a hot summer day, a thunderstom is building and the cloads are on the verge of producing lightning.

            A weather researcher fires a laser into the air at the highly charged cloud. This laser ionizes the air molicules between the laser and the cloud in a stright line into the cloud. The lightning now follows a path of ionization one air molicule at a time down the ionization path first very weakly as a stremer then with a little more power, and finnally with the full conternt of the energy stored in the cloud until that energy is fully transfered to the ground and the cload is stable once more.

            In this analigy, the air is the vacuum. The laser is the anapole magnetic beam. The cloud is the excited nuclius, and the ground is the soliton that created the magnetic beam.

            To start off, the vacuum is a complex medium in which EMF and be carried. Some think it is a spin net liquid. This is a medium where spin can be transfered through it without the spin being stored or retarded by it. But the passage of a magnetic field can leave its mark on it so that EMF and retrace its path through that medium bact to the source of the magnetic field.

            Examples of this application can be found here.


            Photon ‘afterglow’ could transmit information without transmitting energy


            Quote: “NASA’s Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory, speculated that such resonant cavities may operate by creating a virtual plasma toroid that could realize net thrust using magnetohydrodynamic forces acting upon quantum vacuum fluctuations.[41] Likewise, the paper describing the Eagleworks test of the Cannae drive referred to a possible interaction with a so-called “quantum vacuum virtual plasma”.[15] This reference has been criticized by mathematical physicists John Baez and Sean M. Carroll because in the standard description of vacuum fluctuations, virtual particles do not behave as a plasma”

            Be aware that this theory is pushing known physics at the limit.


          • Axil Axil

            I changed my mind after having thought about it a little as follows:

            Why LENR produces stable isotopes and positive energy feedback most of the time but sometimes produces radioactive isotopes and gamma rays when the lattice is cold.

            In the Surface Plasmon Polariton (SPP) model of LENR, heat driven dipole motion of electrons on the surface of micro particles produce a anapole magnetic pulse that in turn induces nuclear reconfiguration.

            This dipole motion of the electron on the surface of the micro particles induces a very rapid alternating current hat has a start that then precedes to a maximum amplitude then falls to zero strength. This cycle happens hundreds of trillions of times per second and corresponds to the frequency of the heat photons that are driving the dipoles..

            When the heat level is low, the amplitude of the magnetic field that is produced by the SPP is correspondingly low and also its duration. The low powered magnetic field hits the target nuclei many times and builds up mass in the pile of nuclei until a subatomic particle is created through the conversion of energy to matter. That meson produces a fusion event were a number of separate nuclei are combined into a new single nucleus. But the magnetic connection to the source of magnetic generation is to weak to carry the nuclear binding energy released by the fusion back to its source. So the nucleus remains excited and will eventually either produce a gamma ray or stay excited as a radioactive isotope.

            When the heat level that is driving the dipole vibration of electrons exceeds a critical level, the amplitude of the magnetic field that is produced by the SPP is strong enough and lasts long enough to hit the pile of nearby nuclei in one shot where the magnetic field can produce a fusion event and still be of sufficient amplitude to carry the released binding energy back to the source of the magnetic field. That nuclear energy is then digested by the soliton and fed back to the dipole motion that created the soliton.

            The key concepts to enable this transfer mechanism is that the fusion event takes a finite period of time to occur, the magnetic field produce by the SPP is variable in both duration and intensity but can grow large enough and long enough to complete a fusion event and energy transfer in one dipole cycle. The SPP can exist for as short as a few femtoseconds to as long as hundreds of picoseconds.

            The production of gamma rays and unstable isotopes will occur before the positive feedback loop is established between the fusion event and the soliton. Once this connection is made, the dipole motion of the micro particle will always have enough power to produce fusion in one cycle. Also when the dipole vibrations of all the micro particles are synced up under a BEC condition, a weak soliton will get enough energy from a strong soliton so that no gammas will be produced.

          • Josh G

            Axil, thank you for making the effort to answer my questions in earnest. I appreciate it!!

          • Axil Axil

            You have helped me far more than I have helped you.

          • Josh G

            Glad to hear.

        • Obvious

          I thought that needed about 15 MK to get going.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I guess it does if you are bashing plasmas of H and 12C together – but if you are firing a 6.7 MeV proton at 12C…

          • Obvious

            Maybe. I’ll think on it. I did see a calculation showing that for every 1% increase in temperature, the carbon cycle reaction rate increases 30 times.

          • Bob Greenyer

            is that only for plasmas?

          • Obvious

            Well, it was for stars. The point at which it overtakes the p-p reaction, which is considered easier, was the point of the calculations. Once the carbon cycle is dominant, the star becomes huge.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, that is in the linked reference I think.

          • Obvious

            I haven’t gone through the Google book reference you supplied in any detail. Practically every physics book in the library for some reason the author feels it necessary to repeat the history of physics from about 1895 to the point the book is about. That’s why I recognised the equation right away. It’s part of the Bethe story…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Right, well, I just ran the equations for C based on the assumption of being proton ejectiles as per Piantelli theory because it was in the fuel and ash from all Rossi’s reactors fuel and ash elemental analysis. I just wanted to find out would happen, would the C disappear… What I found out was it looped…

    • Axil Axil

      If you remember a few weeks back, you said to me that oxygen was a reaction poison as revealed to you by Piantelli. Also both Piantelli and DGT said that nitrogen was a reaction poison. What is chemically possible in a LENR reaction is based on the particulars associated in each system and these reaction rules are system specific. Unlike what is true in nuclear physics, the nuclear reactions that are produced in any given LENR system are not the cause of the LENR reaction, but the particular allowable result.

      Magnetism is the cause.

      • Bob Greenyer

        And as I say at the bottom of the paper, that is why you might need the liquid phase to first strip completely the Oxygen from the Nickel surface.

        Piantelli used Nitrogen to kill his run-away gone bad rod on the phone advice of Sergio Focardio at 3am in the morning when Focardi was in a hotel, 100s km away in Milan. It is what Piantelli had to hand to flush the cell of hydrogen and cool it.

        Magnetism is an “or/and” with electric field according to Piantelli.

        • Axil Axil

          The accumulation of a electric field that is powerful enough to produce nuclear results is prohibited by the Pauli exclusion principle since electrons are fermions.

          Spin on the other hand can be accumulated in any amount because it is produced by photons – a boson. The Pauli exclusion principle does not limit magnetic power accumulation.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Well, I have to say that the cells I saw had a coil of some sort.

          • Axil Axil

            These are cells seen in the Piantelli lab? Coils are usually magnetic.

          • Bob Greenyer

            and that is my point.

            Just saying what I see, running equations and then asking for reasoned opinions

  • Axil Axil

    A lesson to help us understand LENR better as follows:

    Small nanoparticles store energy and are magnetic, while big nanoparticles do not store energy and are not magnetic.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I saw a very big nanoparticle yesterday…

      • Axil Axil

        What did it teach you?

        • Pekka Janhunen

          It was a grain of salt:-)

  • Bob Greenyer

    Firstly, I do not care if people laugh at me – laughing is often, but not always, a nervous reaction in the family of fear when people experience the unexpected. If someone cannot argue their point with reason and a sound basis, they deserve little respect, so why should I mind about their impotent laughter?

    Secondly, I am not defending anyone, I never set out to do that, I was shocked that the patent examiner, in rejecting Rossi’s patent, was ignoring the peer reviewed, replicated and published in ‘Il Nuovo Cimento, 1998’ work, that is the foundation of Piantelli’s awarded patent and which included the exact same reactions quoted from the Lugano report that are in Piantelli’s pre-Lugano report applications.

    I started a thought experiment, “let’s assume that Piantelli is correct and run the reactions to see what we get”. The result is recorded in the spreadsheet, I had no knowledge of what to expect. The results are that it explains our finding in experiments (not opinions), and the results of pretty much all the fuel & ash analysis of E-Cats and Hot-Cats that have been published over the years. It obviously explains Piantelli’s results, of course, Piantelli would say he may be wrong, and so it may be.

    I specifically have said from the begining “NOTE: This spreadsheet is for comment only, It is subject to revision and may contain material errors”

    This is not giving anyone a free pass.

    I have asked both Piantelli and Parkhomov to review it and they have responded and neither said they had any particular problem with it. In fact I have effectively asked everyone to find holes – of which there may be many – what happens is people propose nothing or something completely different based on a new premiss, which is not helpful.

    I am not saying it is right, I am open to all thinking

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Large nanoparticle pudding (with vanilla wafers).
    Often replicated. Rarely improved upon.
    Some use pineapple catalyst.

    Fission version = nano-split