Parkhomov Reports on ICCF-19, Meeting with Lugano Testers (Who are Also Replicating)

Thanks to Sanjeev for reporting this information which came via LENR-Forum:

Alexander Parkhomov has made a post on the Cold Nuclear Transmutation and CMM site a brief report of his visit to ICCF-19, which includes some interesting news about meeting with some of the testers who were involved in the Lugano experiment.

He posts (Google translated from the Russian)

Conference ICCF -19 was quite successful. 470 delegates, 98 reports. This record performance. Characterized by optimism, a premonition of great achievements. The conference was held in the most prestigious indoor Padua Palazzo della Ragione, in the grand hall with 800 years of history, with frescoes by Giotto and Miret.

I attended the University of Bologna at the invitation of Giuseppe Levi, one of the experts who observed the operation of the reactor Rossi in Lugano. He showed his experimental setup and organize communication on Skype with the University of Uppsala (Sweden) with other experts in Lugano Peterson and Bo. They showed their devices to be launched in mid-May. Then our Skype – conference joined Rossi. The first time was able to talk with this extraordinary man. He plans to visit Russia.

So it seems that the contacts between Rossi and the Lugano team is continuing — and that they are working on their own experiments — and now Parkhomov is in communication with all of them. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. Knowing the Lugano team, they will prefer to work quietly, but if Parkhomov is correct in a May release of information.

  • Sanjeev

    The word “devices” hints that there are more than one. (unless its translation error). I hope those in contact with Parkhomov will find out what this exactly means.

  • Sanjeev

    The word “devices” hints that there are more than one. (unless its translation error). I hope those in contact with Parkhomov will find out what this exactly means.

  • zeddicus23

    The translation shown here is “They showed their devices to be launched in mid-May.” which sounds like they have working devices which they will unveil in mid-May. On the other hand, Peter Gluck’s translation [see http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/04/iccf19-over-but-has-echo-and-impact.html%5D which is perhaps more likely to be correct since he speaks Russian is: “They have shown their device which is planned to start mid-May.” This sounds more like they will start their own “Lugano replication” in mid-May. Which is it?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Good new but lithium-7 fuses with a proton to become beryllium-8 that in turn fissions into two alphas (helium-4).

      So, it’s still fusion.
      Li(7) + p > Be-8 > 2 He(4) 17.3 MeV
      PS
      And it’s 10% LAH and 90% Ni.

      • I agree.

        BTW I am very glad that Giuseppe Levi is still involved in LENR research. He has excellent credentials and a very big brain. I cannot think of any LENR researcher I would trust more than him. I hope whatever devices the Lugano team come up with will be made public with details of how to replicate the experiment.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yes indeed.
          With a researcher like Levi, there’s no hot fusion El Jefe who will be able to stop it now.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Good new but lithium-7 fuses with a proton to become beryllium-8 that in turn fissions into two alphas (helium-4).

      So, it’s still fusion.
      Li(7) + p > Be-8 > 2 He(4) 17.3 MeV
      PS
      And it’s 10% LAH and 90% Ni.

      • I agree.

        BTW I am very glad that Giuseppe Levi is still involved in LENR research. He has excellent credentials and a very big brain. I cannot think of any LENR researcher I would trust more than him. I hope whatever devices the Lugano team come up with will be made public with details of how to replicate the experiment.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yes indeed.
          With a researcher like Levi, there’s no hot fusion El Jefe who will be able to stop it now.

          • bachcole

            You got up-clicked, although I have no idea who or what “El Jefe” is. (:->)

          • Christina

            Hi bachcole,
            “El Jefe” is Spanish for “the chief.”

            Christina

  • Buck

    I think Parkhomov’s statement about Rossi ongoing communication with the Lugano ITPR2 team opens the door to an important scenario.

    Scenario: The coordinated development and possible release of both ITPR 3 and a detailed economic and operational evaluation of the existing LENR Pilot Plant one year trial. Also, the updating of the patent application to the USPTO AS WELL AS a new application to the EU Patent office.

    This scenario follows from Tom Darden’s stated focus on the Legal and Administrative aspects from
    his recent interview. To my mind this includes the problem of gaining USPTO patent protection. And, I think it reasonable to suggest that this requirement is still very much on his mind.

    I can’t speak for what Tom Darden is doing to pursue his stated goals. I would like to believe that he understands the following: What is the impact upon the legal case supporting the granting of a USPTO Patent in front of a Federal Judge, when the USPTO has to explain why they rejected the patent application that included both the progression of ITPR1 – ITPR 3, AND the proof (financial and operational) of running a LENR plant for a year at an existing business, AND the EU’s granting of a patent. I am no legal expert, but I would like to think that the Federal Judge will privately call the USPTO a bunch of F**king Fools for defending the indefensible: another rejection of the E-Cat patent application that covers a safe, clean, near limitless inexpensive energy source.

    I think it appropriate to suggest that Darden/IH recognizes the value of presenting two types of knowledge as proof on the practical reality of commercial industrial scale LENR.

    First, the academic/scientific evaluation of LENR as with ITPR1 & ITPR2. As implied, the Lugano team is working towards something like an ITPR 3. If there still exists some guiding contracted arrangement, then the Lugano team might be building an E-Cat under the guidance of Rossi . . . but remotely . . . only via Skype . . . no direct contact with the E-Cat even during the actual test, where the only thing to pass between is knowledge born of experience.

    It is important to recognize that this team has built up a very significant knowledge base . . . materially improving the quality of ITPR2 from ITRP1, incorporating the valuable criticism of ITPR1. The same can be said of the evolution of the protocols going from ITPR2 to ITPR 3. I don’t believe any can argue to profound impact of ITPR2 in moving LENR forward . . . even Darden pointed to the compelling nature of the isotopic changes. One can only guess what ITPR 3 might say.

    Second, the demonstration of a commercial LENR at a disinterested third party business. The vast majority of the World functions in the realm of practical reality. Most don’t understand how a microwave oven works, but they buy them by the 10’s of millions each year because they are more convenient, faster and cost less to run . . . .

    If a business, which uses large $$$ of energy in their production process, sees that their variable costs associated with energy consumption drops by some large %, say 50-80%, they will be COMPELLED by the profit motive to change their energy source no matter their concerns. This assumes that the capital cost expressed as depreciation does not erase the efficiency gain.

    Of course the above scenario is pure conjecture on my part.

    • Mytakeis

      great conjecture, oft compels reality!

    • hempenearth

      If the E Cat power plant is leased then the customer has no up front capital costs and won’t need to depreciate it. And Industrial Heat, retaining ownership of the plant, has better protection of their IP (with inbuilt tamper alarms)

      • Buck

        Your perspective makes sense . . . no one really knows the “economic life” of a LENR device. So, it is hard to establish a reasonable life over which to spread the cost.

        Also, I believe leasing addresses the real fact that LENR products will be evolving rapidly for many years. IMO, a lease eases the transition from one version of an E-Cat to the next without giving the competition a leg up on the rapidly evolving technology.

        • Omega Z

          no one really knows the “economic life”
          But after the 1 year test, they will have a view point of where it is going.

  • Buck

    I think Parkhomov’s statement about Rossi’s ongoing communication with the Lugano ITPR2 team opens the door to an important scenario.

    Scenario: The coordinated development and possible release of both ITPR 3 and a detailed economic and operational evaluation of the existing LENR Pilot Plant one year trial. Also, the updating of the patent application to the USPTO AS WELL AS a new application to the EU Patent office.

    This scenario follows from Tom Darden’s recent interview where he stated that he is focused on the Legal and Administrative aspects of developing the LENR business. To my mind this includes the problem of gaining USPTO patent protection. And, I think it reasonable to suggest that this requirement is still very much on his mind. Further, his statements about supporting a collaborative LENR R&D environment should be noted.

    I can’t speak for what Tom Darden is doing to pursue his stated goals. I would like to believe that he understands the following: What is the impact upon the legal case supporting the granting of a USPTO Patent in front of a Federal Judge, when the USPTO has to explain why they rejected the patent application that included both the progression of ITPR1 – ITPR 3, AND the proof (financial and operational) of running a LENR plant for a year at an existing business, AND the EU’s granting of a patent. I am no legal expert, but I would like to think that the Federal Judge will privately call the USPTO a bunch of F**king Fools for defending the indefensible: another rejection of the E-Cat patent application that covers a proven safe, clean, near limitless inexpensive energy source.

    I think it appropriate to suggest that Darden/IH recognizes the value of presenting two types of knowledge as proof on the practical reality of commercial industrial scale LENR.

    First, the academic/scientific evaluation of LENR as with ITPR1 & ITPR2. As implied, the Lugano team is working towards something like an ITPR 3. If there still exists some guiding contracted arrangement, then the Lugano team might be building a device with the guidance of Rossi . . . but remotely . . . only via Skype . . . no direct contact with the device even during the actual test, where the only thing to pass between is knowledge born of experience.

    It is important to recognize that this team has built up a very significant knowledge base . . . materially improving the quality of ITPR2 from ITRP1, incorporating the valuable criticism of ITPR1. The same can be said of the evolution of the protocols going from ITPR2 to ITPR 3. I don’t believe any can argue on the profound impact of ITPR2 in moving LENR forward . . . even Darden pointed to the compelling nature of the isotopic changes. One can only guess what ITPR 3 might say.

    Second, the demonstration of a commercial LENR at a disinterested third party business. The vast majority of the World functions in the realm of practical reality. Most don’t understand how a microwave oven works, but they buy them by the 10’s of millions each year because they are more convenient, faster and cost less to run . . . .

    If the pilot plant business, which uses large $$$ of energy in their production process, sees that their variable costs associated with energy consumption drops by some large %, say 66-85%, they will be COMPELLED by the profit motive to change their energy source no matter their concerns. This assumes that the capital cost for switching, expressed as depreciation, does not erase the efficiency gain.

    Of course the above scenario is pure conjecture on my part.

    • HS61AF91

      great conjecture, oft compels reality!

    • Warthog

      “….that the Federal Judge will privately call the USPTO a bunch of F**king
      Fools for defending the indefensible: another rejection of the E-Cat
      patent application that covers a proven safe, clean, near limitless
      inexpensive energy source.

      Never underestimate either the stupidity or the tenacity of bureaucrats. It “might” get their attention if they actually lose in court……otherwise………

      • Buck

        I agree . . . that is in part why we are where we are today.

        I believe Darden recognizes this weakness and is diligent is his pursuit.

    • hempenearth

      If the E Cat power plant is leased then the customer has no up front capital costs and won’t need to depreciate it. And Industrial Heat, retaining ownership of the plant, has better protection of their IP (with inbuilt tamper alarms)

      • Buck

        Your perspective makes sense . . . no one really knows the “economic life” of a LENR device. So, it is hard to establish a reasonable life over which to spread the cost.

        Also, I believe leasing addresses the real fact that LENR products will be evolving rapidly for many years. IMO, a lease eases the transition from one version of an E-Cat to the next without giving the competition a leg up on the rapidly evolving technology.

        • Omega Z

          no one really knows the “economic life”
          But after the 1 year test, they will have a view point of where it is going.

  • georgehants

    Over the past four or so years Mr. Rossi has graciously thanked a great number of people for the help they have given him in reaching his current position, including many of the contributes to his JONP.
    It, I think would be very satisfying for him to now give assistance to those that are struggling to repeat the very basic replications of Cold Fusion.
    These people are not apparently concerned with patents or profits but trying to release Cold Fusion for all to benefit.
    I applaud their efforts and hope Mr. Rossi reciprocates the help he has been given in his Wonderful endevours.

  • Andy Kumar

    Lugano team working on their own devices, in my view, is a breach of faith and (implicit) understanding with Rossi. Not fair of them to be muscling in on Rossi’s territory. No wonder, Rossi is so protective of his IP.

    • Sanjeev

      Did you miss the part that Levi called Rossi on Skype and introduced Parkhomov ?
      Can you see that Rossi is well aware of the situation ? How is this a breach of faith ?
      How did you come up with such twisted logic ? Was that intentional or are you really incapable of logical analysis ?

      • Andy Kumar

        Sanjeev,
        If you have not lost your moral compass, you should see that the Lugano team is unethically using the information they are privy too. Twisted logic? – We see enough of it, don’t we?

        • bachcole

          If, during a 3 way conference call, Rossi did not object, then I don’t see the problem.

          • Andy Kumar

            It was a courtesy call, a fait accompli – “An accomplished fact; an action which is completed before those affected by it are in a position to query or reverse it.”

            http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fait-accompli.html

            Rossi does not like it, but nothing he can do. He knows how power games are played. His friends may have betrayed him. Remember the time when people were wondering how Parkhomov figured Rossi’s secret from the Lugano report. Now we have a clue.

          • Mark

            Lol. Rossi had known they were doing further work after Lugano and there is no indication of him raising a fuss.

          • Monty

            Are you Rossi or how comes u know what he likes and what he doesnt like?

          • Sanjeev

            Is it only in your fancy imagination that Rossi does not like it, or you have spoken to him personally ? Where is the proof? I suggest emailing him and informing him about the “betrayal” you are so worried of.

            I can see that behind this sympathy, you are hiding a jealousy and just trying to come up with some ridiculous reasons to protect your negative beliefs, just like a religious fundamentalist. You think that by spreading doubt and negativity, you will appear “superior” but it only makes you look idiotic.

          • Omega Z

            This is either a FUD attack or you need to sharpen your reading & comprehension.

        • Sanjeev

          You mean that Rossi is collaborating with them for unethical use of his own tech ?
          If this is your understanding of “morals” and logic, you need more education.
          If your intention is nothing but mud slinging and character assassination of those who are doing hard work, you do not need to do anything, carry on, you are doing a good job.

          • Andy Kumar

            …Rossi is collaborating …
            Who says he is collaborating. His lone wolf credentials have never been questioned. If you are going to start with *wrong axioms*, a good education in logic can not save you from false conclusions.

          • Sanjeev

            Rossi and IH provided the reactor to the team. They tested and made it public. They are using their experience with it to replicate just like anyone else. Its good to know that they are still in contact with Rossi. As Rossi has said many times that the replication work is very important, he is not really opposed to replications.
            Welcome to reality Andy, of course, if your whole purpose of coming here and posting is to spread lies and disinfo, I can’t help you any more. I can supply the info and help in logical thinking, but I can’t change a person’s character.

          • Andy Kumar

            Guys,
            I am just raising some difficult ethical questions. To borrow a phrase from Obama, I would be glad to have a serious debate, but we may end up questioning the sanctity of some holy cows. We don’t want to go there.
            Sanjeev, my friend, a little logical exercise for you.
            In a village, there is only one barber who shaves ALL men who don’t shave THEMSELVES. Question is, WHO shaves the barber.

        • builditnow

          Think carefully. It’s very likely to be part of Industrial Heat’s business plan for their product launch.

        • bachcole

          I guess that I am also an unethical person too because don’t see an ethical problem. If they had popped open the reactor core, that would have been unethical. But Rossi willingly made public everything that the professors could know. If there were some kind of agreement between Rossi and the professors to not duplicate, we would have already heard about it. Otherwise, I don’t see a problem ethically. I don’t see Rossi screaming bloody “secrets theft” at Parkhomov; instead, Rossi is giving Parkhomov a big skype hug. Please tell me the difference between the professors and Parkhomov.

        • Warthog

          “If you have not lost your moral compass, you should see that the Lugano
          team is unethically using the information they are privy too”

          Not at all….it would only be unethical if they were making something to be commercialized in competition with Rossi, which they are not. You can bet tha the Lugano folks are under NDR with Rossi about certain aspects, and as ethical scientists, you can bet that they are adhering to those agreements.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I do not know of intellectual property rights for anything which preclude experimental work.
      They are physicists asked to show interest, they have shown interest. If they ceased to show interest after the Lugano test, then Dottore Rossi would have something to be unhappy about.

      Also the Genie has left the bottle, it is never going back in. In a few years there will be 100 varieties of reactor. Probably most of them from a garage industry which will respect no one’s rights.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi was included in the Skype conference. Do you really think Rossi was not aware. There have been rumors that the Lugano team has been working on a device since shortly after the publishing of the report.

      I imagine it has been done with Rossi’s approval. And as I posted a long while ago that Elforsk may be involved with this as well. Possibly you are not aware that Levi was 1 of the original skeptics who ran many tests on the Lt E-cat in late 2010 early 2011 trying to find error in it.

    • Montague Withnail

      What physicist on earth, once properly aware of FPE, could possibly be expected not to study it? No other field in physics (maybe any science) can touch it either in terms of fascinating virgin territory, or in potential value to society. You would have to lack even the tiniest sense of intellectual curiosity, ambition or vision. In summary, you would have to be a useless scientist.

  • Chris, Italy

    Confirmation! I scarcely doubted the Lugano team would have been working on Parkhomov’s recipe.

    Pity I had to come down with such an awful flu staring last Sunday evening. Tody was the very first I briefly ventured outside, due to dwindling food supplies. LOL wouldn’t you know, being within walking distance from P.zzo d. Ragione… all cooped up under my blankets with hardly any wits about me. Rats!

  • Chris, Italy

    Confirmation! I scarcely doubted the Lugano team would have been working on Parkhomov’s recipe.

    Pity I had to come down with such an awful flu staring last Sunday evening. Tody was the very first I briefly ventured outside, due to dwindling food supplies. LOL wouldn’t you know, being within walking distance from P.zzo d. Ragione… all cooped up under my blankets with hardly any wits about me. Rats!

  • Sanjeev

    Did you miss the part that Levi called Rossi on Skype and introduced Parkhomov ?
    Can you see that Rossi is well aware of the situation ? How is this a breach of faith ?
    How did you come up with such twisted logic ? Was that intentional or are you really incapable of logical analysis ?

  • Sanjeev

    You mean that Rossi is collaborating with them for unethical use of his own tech ?
    If this is your understanding of “morals” and logic, you need more education.

  • Good. This reflects what I’ve heard from Uppsala. My understanding is that their reactor is ready and that they are now starting careful calibration. I guess that what is referred to in mid-May would be start running with a loaded reactor.
    I think the reason for them to do an independent experiment is that they don’t see much possibilities to add insight doing further black box experiments with Rossi’s reactor, even if he would let them, which I doubt by the way — Rossi doesn’t seem to be interested to have more third party tests done now, when concentrating on the MW trial. Makes sense to me.

  • Good. This reflects what I’ve heard from Uppsala. My understanding is that their reactor is ready and that they are now starting careful calibration. I guess that what is referred to in mid-May would be start running with a loaded reactor.
    I think the reason for them to do an independent experiment is that they don’t see much possibilities to add insight doing further black box experiments with Rossi’s reactor, even if he would let them, which I doubt by the way — Rossi doesn’t seem to be interested to have more third party tests done now, when concentrating on the MW trial. Makes sense to me.

    • Mats002

      Det ryktas att du hade en konversation med Peter Björkbom från Neofire i bakgrunden till MFMP 20150419 Part4 på youtube, stämmer det? Vad sa ni?

    • LookMoo

      I hope you will be able to cover this development in NyTeknik. We have had a bottle neck due to Rossi`s policies. Any indipendet replicaition will jump start eh process towards consumer products.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I do not know of intellectual property rights for anything which preclude experimental work.
    They are physicists asked to show interest, they have shown interest. If thet ceased to show interest after the Lugano test, then Dottore Rossi would have something to be unhappy about.

  • Sanjeev

    Rossi and IH provided the reactor to the team. They tested and made it public. They are using their experience with it to replicate just like anyone else. Its good to know that they are still in contact with Rossi. As Rossi has said many times that the replication work is very important, he is not really opposed to replications.
    Welcome to reality Andy, of course, if your whole purpose of coming here and posting is to spread lies and disinfo, I can’t help you any more. I can supply the info and help is logical thinking, but I can’t change a person’s character.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi was included in the Skype conference. Do you really think Rossi was not aware. There have been rumors that the Lugano team has been working on a device since shortly after the publishing of the report.

    I imagine it has been done with Rossi’s approval. And as I posted a long while ago that Elforsk may be involved with this as well. Possibly you are not aware that Levi was 1 of the original skeptics who ran many tests on the Lt E-cat in late 2010 early 2011 trying to find error in it.

  • Sanjeev

    Is it only in your fancy imagination that Rossi does not like it, or you have spoken to him personally ? Where is the proof? I suggest emailing him and informing him about the “betrayal” you are so worried of.

    I can see that behind this sympathy, you are hiding a jealousy and just trying to come up with some ridiculous reasons to protect your negative beliefs, just like a religious fundamentalist. You think that by spreading doubt and negativity, you will appear “superior” but it only makes you look idiotic.

  • Omega Z

    This is either a FUD attack or you need to sharpen your reading & comprehension.

  • clovis ray

    Hi guys, you know some smells to high heaven here, why is it you think, Dr. Rossi is taking this replication stuff in stride, there seems to be something that is missing here,hummmm, why is it that levi, this very smart guy, team leader of the lugano report, after all this time, still don’t know how to replicate the device, along with many others, could it be that only Dr. Rossi know what it takes to reproduce the effect,and as long as no one reproduces, the device he knows his secret is safe, because if not, why would he not just give it away, like some here thinks he should, which is stupid, the way i see it, so why has NO one ever reproduced his device or any other lenr, cold fousion, or other such devices, for that matter, why, are all the replicators, always seem to just be on the verge of making it work, I AM STILL WAITING FOR THE FIRST, TO BE PROVEN . other than the E-CAT,

    • Andy Kumar

      Clovis, You are right, only Rossi holds the key. I think the secret is in Focardi waveform and the math Focardi taught Rossi. Remember the calculus 101 notes Rossi had published on JoNP. I think the notes had some hand written stuff. It will become a valuable piece of history.

    • builditnow

      You have a good nose 🙂 Think of it as a scouting exercise for Industrial Heat, looking for talent to hire and startups / IP to buy, as well as keeping tabs on when LENR might break out into the awareness of the general public.

      Other than that, Industrial Heat is behaving and Rossi is saying that they need more time to finish up their products, and so do not want to go public yet. Perhaps next year after the 1mW plant has a successful year of operation, or, later.

      If there are many independent replicators around the world, this takes the pressure off Rossi and Industrial Heat as being the only one’s with the magic black box, so, if replications progress is slow, timing could fit IH’s plans for next year and Rossi could start dropping hints to help replicators succeed in preparation for IH’s product launch. IH will own much of the patent and intellectual property and can purchase / license what they don’t have, so the replicators don’t matter much to their business plans.

      independent replicators could make things happen more quickly, so, crank up your reactors folks.

      • bachcole

        I think that I.H. “snooping” around at ICCF-19 looking for talent and start-ups is extremely exciting and hopeful. I couldn’t hope for a better person than Tom Darden to have in the palm of his hand the future of the human race.

    • fusionist

      Why not become a doer instead of a talker? A reactor is simple to construct.
      I’m not a replicator. Probably the first to use a nickel oxide reactor and witness hydrogen fusion to produce helium in my lab. This was in the early seventies in Fleishmann and Pons time. Way before Rossi’s e-cat. These reactors can now be bought for home use. But why go through the hassle of producing electricity in your garage when the electrical rates are low? Hot water for home use may be a selling point though.
      The nickel oxide nanoscale reactor is not on the verge of working, it does work! If you try replication and get the magic sauce right, watch it at 830 C. because you’ll suddenly get melt-down. No radiation other than gamma to worry about, but don’t get burned by the hot hydrogen. The potential alphas and betas are contained internally. What a beautiful reaction we must be destined to put it to use someday when the rainbow is low.

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Fusionist.
        old men, are better talkers, lol, if i were to replicate a reactor, i would do it purely for the data, when the e-cat begins to prowl, there will be lots to talk about, hopefully home units will come next, Industrial heat,is the quickest route, i personally, am pleased with the amount, i pay for home energy, i am total electric,which is about $4.00 a day, but there are endless list of things that the reactors will power, and you know with the growth of the industrial units, will lower home energy cost even more.

        • bachcole

          I am at $6.15 for gas, waste water, electricity, and potable (I’ve been waiting years to use that word in a sentence) water. For us three people, that comes to $2.05 per person. Not bad at all. Perhaps I will get only the energy cost, when I have the energy to get up and go look at it. (:->)

    • Warthog

      “…..so why has NO one ever
      reproduced his device or any other lenr, cold fousion, or other such
      devices, for that matter,

      If you think this, it simply shows that you are simply ignorant of the topic. LENR devices have been reproduced multiple times, including the original P&F wet cell. See the bibliography of science papers at LENR-CANR.org. That the anti-LENR war to stifle that knowledge has succeeded as long as it has, simply so some physicists can continue to “suck the government teat” for big bucks is the travesty….not anything LENR researchers have or have not done.

      • bachcole

        Nicely put.

      • clovis ray

        bull, where is your proof, i mean credible prood, the proof that you and many others demanded of Dr. Rossi, you know, 3rd party proof, i have been around from the first, i know all about what has been replicated, and there is nothing but lip flapping about real reactors producing energy, if this were true, it would be all over the press, so your argument wont hold water, and calling people ignorant, does not help anyone,

        • Warthog

          Depends on how you define “from the first”. I’ve been following LENR since 1989.

          I am referring to scientific proof, not commercial-scale plants. There is plenty of third-party data available for the science.

          And I seriously doubt that you know “all about what has been replicated”. Even with my efforts I won’t even think about making such a claim. There is simply too much data available to be aware of all of it. Even now I still find new facets dating from the early days of CF.

  • Buck

    I agree . . . that is in part why we are where we are today.

    I believe Darden recognizes this weakness and is diligent is his pursuit.

  • builditnow

    You have a good nose 🙂 Think of it as a scouting exercise for Industrial Heat, looking for talent to hire and startups / IP to buy, as well as keeping tabs on when LENR might break out into the awareness of the general public.

    Other than that, Industrial Heat is behaving and Rossi is saying that they need more time to finish up their products, and so do not want to go public yet. Perhaps next year after the 1mW plant has a successful year of operation, or, later.

    If there are many independent replicators around the world, this takes the pressure off Rossi and Industrial Heat as being the only one’s with the magic black box, so, if replications progress is slow, timing could fit IH’s plans for next year and Rossi could start dropping hints to help replicators succeed in preparation for IH’s product launch. IH will own much of the patent and intellectual property and can purchase / license what they don’t have, so the replicators don’t matter much to their business plans.

    independent replicators could make things happen more quickly, so, crank up your reactors folks.

  • builditnow

    Think carefully. It’s very likely to be part of Industrial Heat’s business plan for their product launch.

  • I have the impression things are far from being well understood, so there’s a need for a large number of experiments, even if all data is shared, before the situation will become clear. If data isn’t shared, of course, it will take far longer to figure out what’s going on.

    Most discoveries are the result of smart people bumbling around, and it’s likely that a very large amount is yet to be learned, so a lot of bumbling around is going to be needed.

    At this stage, Rossi stands to gain like everyone else by what gets discovered in these imperfect replication attempts.

    In addition to just figuring out how to get the reaction to take place, we need to figure out how to control it safely and efficiently. If the reaction becomes self-sustaining, and we don’t need to supply external heat anymore, what keeps the reaction from running away, dumping say a year’s worth of energy in a millisecond (or whatever)? We all really have a lot to learn yet.

    Anybody know what’s up next? Where did the online apparatus from Padua go? Was that the Santa Cruz tube? Will the tube be opened and examined, or will it be re-heated?

    • clovis ray

      HI, Dave. I agree not all is understood, about the Rossi effect , but the control issues seem to be working well in deed, from last report, with cop’s of 20-80.
      Dr Rossi’s work is a lot more than just bumbling around , as you put it, it was years of his younger life, sticking to the program and not giving up on first failure, along with lots and lots of his own money, he is a real scientist, not just a talker he is a doer, to answer your last question, cop of 20-80, shows proof of his control.

  • I have the impression things are far from being well understood, so there’s a need for a large number of experiments, even if all data is shared, before the situation will become clear. If data isn’t shared, of course, it will take far longer to figure out what’s going on.

    Most discoveries are the result of smart people bumbling around, and it’s likely that a very large amount is yet to be learned, so a lot of bumbling around is going to be needed.

    At this stage, Rossi stands to gain like everyone else by what gets discovered in these imperfect replication attempts.

    In addition to just figuring out how to get the reaction to take place, we need to figure out how to control it safely and efficiently. If the reaction becomes self-sustaining, and we don’t need to supply external heat anymore, what keeps the reaction from running away, dumping say a year’s worth of energy in a millisecond (or whatever)? We all really have a lot to learn yet.

    Anybody know what’s up next? Where did the online apparatus from Padua go? Was that the Santa Cruz tube? Will the tube be opened and examined, or will it be re-heated?

    • clovis ray

      HI, Dave. I agree not all is understood, about the Rossi effect , but the control issues seem to be working well in deed, from last report, with cop’s of 20-80.
      Dr Rossi’s work is a lot more than just bumbling around , as you put it, it was years of his younger life, sticking to the program and not giving up on first failure, along with lots and lots of his own money, he is a real scientist, not just a talker he is a doer, to answer your last question, cop of 20-80, shows proof of his control.

      • I don’t mean “bumbling” to be an insult. It’s the way humans discover things that require leaps, changes in assumptions, etc.
        I’m wondering how you find out about Rossi’s progress? All I’ve seen so far seems like reports of rumors. Does his customer report outputs somewhere?
        Does anyone know what sort of control he uses? Does the output just happen to self-limit? It’s hard to see how the apparatus can respond differently to its self-generated heat from the input hot-wire heat, which leads to a fear of thermal runaway. A real control mechanism has to involve something that the reaction isn’t able to do for itself!

        • clovis ray

          Hi, Dave, of course you meant no disrespect.
          I have made a personal study, for one of the worlds most important discovery’s, and it developer, Dr. rossi, one must be careful of disrespect , of such great men, Dr. Rossi is a truthful man, if he say’s it it’s true, you can believe it, he has been put to the test many times, and has been found to be very very creatable, it seem to me you just need to read more on who he is, and has done,

  • MontagueWithnail

    What physicist on earth, once properly aware of FPE, could possibly be expected not to study it? No other field in physics (maybe any science) can touch it either in terms of fascinating virgin territory, or in potential value to society. You would have to lack even the tiniest sense of intellectual curiosity, ambition or vision. In summary, you would have to be a useless scientist.

  • Warthog

    “…..so why has NO one ever
    reproduced his device or any other lenr, cold fousion, or other such
    devices, for that matter,

    If you think this, it simply shows that you are simply ignorant of the topic. LENR devices have been reproduced multiple times, including the original P&F wet cell. See the bibliography of science papers at LENR-CANR.org. That the anti-LENR war to stifle that knowledge has succeeded as long as it has, simply so some physicists can continue to “suck the government teat” for big bucks is the travesty….not anything LENR researchers have or have not done.

  • Warthog

    Depends on how you define “from the first”. I’ve been following LENR since 1989.

    I am referring to scientific proof, not commercial-scale plants. There is plenty of third-party data available for the science.

    And I seriously doubt that you know “all about what has been replicated”. Even with my efforts I won’t even think about making such a claim. There is simply too much data available to be aware of all of it. Even now I still find new facets dating from the early days of CF.