E-Cats Getting Smaller

Some interesting information was given by Andrea Rossi today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics regarding the smallest size of the E-Cat.

Herb Gillis asked Rossi what his understanding was regarding the smallest possible size that an E-Cat could be.

Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
May 1st, 2015 at 3:36 PM

Herb Gillis:
I talk only of what I know and have experienced: so far the smaller is 1 kW power. The amount of charge can be about 1 g.

Warm Regards,
A.R.

My guess is that Rossi here is referring to Hot Cats that he is working on while he watches over the 1MW plant in his shipping container. He has said recently that they have had success improving the COP of the Hot Cat, by some ‘ingenious’ method. Since we learned today that in the 1MW plant Rossi’s team has been able to increase the COP by driving some E-Cats with others, I would expect that they have been trying something similar with the Hot Cats.

The fact that Rossi is able to drive one E-Cat with another implies that the heat from one E-Cat can stimulate the reaction in another — but there could be some other EM or RF stimulation involved.

I think this is the smallest size E-Cat that we have heard Rossi say he has worked with, and it could be that working with smaller reactors is the key to improving COP because of the apparently successful ability to have them power each other.

  • Steven Irizarry

    tesla motors unveiled a badass battery

  • bachcole

    With some of Elon Musk’s batteries, 1 kW would do just fine for my house.

    • clovis ray

      i just started to say the same, took the words right out of my mouth. -smile- he is probably tweaking his house cat, or for a better name the( top cat) an interchangeable reactor, that will do work anywhere you want it,

  • bachcole

    With some of Elon Musk’s batteries, 1 kW would do just fine for my house.

    • R101

      Hi Bachcole. I don’t see the point with batteries when using an Ecat, since the output is fairly constant from an Ecat. Sure, those Telsa batteries would be great if using solar or wind or both as you would need storage for when the sun’s not shining or the wind isn’t blowing. Please correct me if I’m wrong or missing a point.

      • artefact

        If you need between 0 and 5 KW you can use a 1KW future electric e-cat (if that is your average) and buffer with a battery to account for peaks.
        The output of the e-cat is constant but the usage of it is not.

        • R101

          True that. Thanks.

      • bachcole

        What artefact said.

    • clovis ray

      i just started to say the same, took the words right out of my mouth. -smile- he is probably tweaking his house cat, or for a better name the( top cat) an interchangeable reactor, that will do work anywhere you want it,

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Logically, the 1KW ecat should be the mouse.

    But smaller ecat’s should not really pose a problem engineering wise.

    • pelgrim108

      Last time I heard, the mouse has a COP of 1.1 So how does that fit in with a 1kW E-Cat.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        I think this is the mouse which is somehow integrated with the 10KW ecat to control it’s output. Small ecat with low COP to feed the 10KW big ecat for higher COP.

        But it could also be that Rossi is creating smaller ecat’s with lower output, though I can’t really imagine what for.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Logically, the 1KW ecat should be the mouse.

    But smaller ecat’s should not really pose a problem engineering wise.

    • pelgrim108

      Last time I heard, the mouse has a COP of 1.1 So how does that fit in with a 1kW E-Cat.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        I think this is the mouse which is somehow integrated with the 10KW ecat to control it’s output. Small ecat with low COP to feed the 10KW big ecat for higher COP.

        But it could also be that Rossi is creating smaller ecat’s with lower output, though I can’t really imagine what for.

      • Robert Ellefson

        The ‘COP’ that Rossi cited for the mouse is a fabricated number. I doubt that he has measured and characterized the thermal performance of the mouse in-situ to anything remotely approaching the precision that would be required to cite a performance specification of “1.1”

        • pelgrim108

          1.1 is a strange COP. It would mean that it is a reactor or a collector of some kind.
          However why make the complications when the COP is 1 or a little bit higher than 1.
          I dont think Rossi would mention 1.1 if there was a chance that it would be lower than 1.

          Has Rossi ever spoken about where “in situ” is?
          Is it possible that its output is electricity and its location is some distance from the cat? It would make measuring the COP less complicated.

  • David_Kaiser_39

    I made a request for 22 MW power for a plant I want to run.I made this through eat.com. No answer. I am seriously interested. Does anyone has an idea/proposal how to get to these guys? Thanks. David Kaiser

    • Ivan Idso

      Go to the Journal of Nuclear Physics, then to the comment section where you can blog directly with Andea Rossi.

      • David_Kaiser_39

        I approached Dr. Rossi. He kindly requested me to wait till February 2016. Time I don’t have. So I have to buy a stupid coal powerplant for this. I told him. This is a fact and I cannot change it.

        • bachcole

          Have you tried Brillioun? Ask Mike McKubre.

        • Axil Axil

          Like everybody else, why don’t you use gas?

          • David_Kaiser_39

            Axel Axil. I like your comments, although I’m a business man and I understand not a single word what you are talking about:-) In UAE, gas is scarce and the providers turn it on and of, from one minute to another. For a cement plant, this means, 100k per day loss. Gas is not a reliable source here.

          • Axil Axil

            David,

            For a cement plant, you require process heat, high temperature heat. LENR can only supply steam heat at this juncture. It will be many years before LENR can give you the quality of heat that can produce cement

          • David_Kaiser_39

            Axil Axil. It’s not for the Kiln. It’s for the grinding mill.

        • hempenearth

          Have you tried going directly to Industrial Heat? They asked for potential collaborators to contact them.

    • bachcole

      I was hyperlinked to Hellman’s Mayonaise with that link.

      • David_Kaiser_39

        Sorry, it is ecat.com.

    • hempenearth

      Companies or organizations interested in partnering with Industrial Heat should reach out to
      JT Vaughn at info@industrialheat.co

      CONTACT: JT Vaughn, jvaughn@industrialheat.co

  • Bob Matulis

    Please explain to me the difference between the hot-cat and the lower temp one. Is AP’s a hot-cat? Thanks

    • pelgrim108

      Alexander Parkhomov’s reactor is simlar to Rossi’s Lugano Hot-Cat.
      The LT-Cat is a mystery ( to me anyway), so it is difficult to compare apart from the obvious.

      • Bob Matulis

        Thanks!

        • Ophelia Rump

          A LENR powered bicycle could change life for the better for many people around the globe.

          • Axil Axil

            This LRNR bicycle would reqire a reactor type that has not yet been invented. Can you describe how this reactor would need to look?

          • mcloki

            It would be easier to use LENR to make electricity and transfer it to a regular battery. There’s a huge installed infrastructure for both electricity and batteries. That’s the quickest way to market and most likely the way IH will get the initial 1.0 version to market.

          • LENR bicycle is not so hard.
            like for plane or car, first idea is to start from an hybrid electric.
            a bike with 250Wmech is well assisted. with 1kW it is nearly dangerous (a champion is 500W, a beginner about 100W, a trained amateur s 300W).

            replace half of the batterypack with a reactor+ an engine (stirling, thermoacoustic, TEG, rankine) and recharge the battery with a 1-2kWth reactor.

            in a way, bike assistance allow better throttling , and simply letting the reactor help the wheel continuously, remind me the “Solex” which had great success.

  • Bob Matulis

    Please explain to me the difference between the hot-cat and the lower temp one. Is AP’s a hot-cat? Thanks

    • pelgrim108

      Alexander Parkhomov’s reactor is simlar to Rossi’s Lugano Hot-Cat.
      The LT-Cat is a mystery ( to me anyway), so it is difficult to compare apart from the obvious.

      • Bob Matulis

        Thanks!

    • Colibric41AC

      The hotcat requires very high temperatures because hydrogen is provided by the lialh4 which must be molten for to release it.
      In the normal e-cat, the engine is supplied with hydrogen by an external source and does not need heat, or much less.
      But I realize well that except for parkhomov nobody succeeded in reproducing the hotcat, it is already a proof of the level.

      • Axil Axil

        You state as follows:

        “In the normal e-cat, the engine is supplied with hydrogen by an external source and does not need heat, or much less.”

        Why do you think this?

  • Herb Gillis

    It sounds to me like AR is not sure about the smallest possible size. A smaller Ecat in a large ensemble of Ecats might further improve COP. But if we can get the size down much further (to microscopic dimensions) it might be possible to produce a “single crystal” Ecat, where all the reactive grains are exactly the same shape and size. This would eliminate hot spots, and open the door to lithographic (epitaxial) manufacturing techniques.

  • Dan Woodward

    A very small LENR heater could create a huge market. What if battery operated LENR heaters the size of a lunch box were available? Every dog sled would have one ; every duck hunter, early golfer, every tent camper, etc., etc.. This may sound like science fiction, but it will eventually happen.

    • William D. Fleming

      I remember when the ultimate goal for a GPS receiver was that it be the size of a small suitcase. For cold fusion, think the size of a ball-point pen.

      You must live in a cold climate. I’d like to see a pocket sized air conditioner.

    • Warthog

      See “Nanor”. At this point, no one knows what the lower size limit will be. My personal take is that nanoscale lithography will be eventually be used to create multiple “nuclear active environments”, which will in turn comprise “u-Cats” (micro-Cats) on a single chip.

  • Ophelia Rump

    A LENR powered bicycle could change life for the better for many people around the globe.

    • bachcole

      Notice that the ICE motorcycle came several decades after the automobile.

    • Axil Axil

      This LRNR bicycle would reqire a reactor type that has not yet been invented. Can you describe how this reactor would need to look?

      • mcloki

        It would be easier to use LENR to make electricity and transfer it to a regular battery. There’s a huge installed infrastructure for both electricity and batteries. That’s the quickest way to market and most likely the way IH will get the initial 1.0 version to market.

      • LENR bicycle is not so hard.
        like for plane or car, first idea is to start from an hybrid electric.
        a bike with 250Wmech is well assisted. with 1kW it is nearly dangerous (a champion is 500W, a beginner about 100W, a trained amateur s 300W).

        replace half of the batterypack with a reactor+ an engine (stirling, thermoacoustic, TEG, rankine) and recharge the battery with a 1-2kWth reactor.

        in a way, bike assistance allow better throttling , and simply letting the reactor help the wheel continuously, remind me the “Solex” which had great success.

    • Dave Lawton

      Lenr steam boiler instead of wood chip? http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/zennorphoenix

  • William D. Fleming

    I remember when the ultimate goal for a GPS receiver was that it be the size of a small suitcase. For cold fusion, think the size of a ball-point pen.

    You must live in a cold climate. I’d like to see a pocket sized air conditioner.

  • Oystein Lande

    Interesting: Rossi says the 1MW plant has rated electrical heating elements of 250KW, i.e. That’s the Max heating that can be supplied by J├┤ule heating. Which means he must achieve a COP of minimum 4 to delivered 1MW power…

  • Warthog

    See “Nanor”. At this point, no one knows what the lower size limit will be. My personal take is that nanoscale lithography will be eventually be used to create multiple “nuclear active environments”, which will in turn comprise “u-Cats” (micro-Cats) on a single chip.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Pellet sized ecats designed to have runaway heat and meltdown was a unique idea someone on this website mentioned in a comment long ago (I think).

    The notion is to have disposable ecats manufactured in a robotic clean room that are designed to be disposable and burnt up like firewood (exaggerating simplicity).

    This could harness the explosive power of their combustion or just harness the heat, depending upon design. I think it was a unique idea worth more interest.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Pellet sized ecats designed to have runaway heat and meltdown was a unique idea someone on this website mentioned in a comment long ago (I think).

    The notion is to have disposable ecats manufactured in a robotic clean room that are designed to be disposable and burnt up like firewood (exaggerating simplicity).

    This could harness the explosive power of their combustion or just harness the heat, depending upon design. I think it was a unique idea worth more interest.

  • Axil Axil

    A product design that would make the Rossi design irrelevant is a LENR battery. This products would convert nuclear energy directly to electric power output. At the size of a pencil, this cool running device would produce 10 Kilowatts of power and be modular pug and play like a lithium battery either in series or in parallel.

    There is still lots of room for innovation in the LENR marketplace.

    • mcloki

      That’s a huge leap in technology though.

    • mcloki

      Also wouldn’t it be a 1200 degree battery?

    • friendlyprogrammer

      Sounds like a Tommyknocker world where everything is powered by “C” batteries. Nice vision.

  • Axil Axil

    A product design that would make the Rossi design irrelevant is a LENR battery. This products would convert nuclear energy directly to electric power output. At the size of a pencil, this cool running device would produce 10 Kilowatts of power and be modular pug and play like a lithium battery either in series or in parallel.

    There is still lots of room for innovation in the LENR marketplace.

    • mcloki

      That’s a huge leap in technology though.

      • Steven Irizarry

        Nope…exponential development will ensue to try to one up rossi…the Wright brothers were outclassed the second the principles of flight became known…leading to the airplane business to literally stomp on both of them

    • mcloki

      Also wouldn’t it be a 1200 degree battery?

    • friendlyprogrammer

      Sounds like a Tommyknocker world where everything is powered by “C” batteries. Nice vision.

  • Anthony Richards

    Some time ago, it was postulated that domestic appliances could each have their own little e-Cat.