Rossi: Hot Cats to be Used for Domestic Unit — ‘Very Long’ Self-Sustain Periods in Single Units

There has been some interesting information from Andrea Rossi revealed by Andrea Rossi recently regarding plans for the Hot Cat (the high temperature E-Cat reactor), which he now says will be used as the basis for domestic E-Cat units, which apparently are being prepared for in ongoing R&D activity. Here are some recent questions and comments from Rossi via the Journal of Nuclear Physics.

Q: Do you think that if the year long test of the 1 MW plant – if the results will be positive and the safety will be sound – will make easier to obtain the safety certification for the domestic E-Cat?

Andrea Rossi
May 8th, 2015 at 6:59 PM
Brigitte:
Yes. By the way, the test on course on the Hot Cat adjacent to the 1 MW E-Cat are going well, and it is the core of what will be the domestic E-Cat; we made improvements respect the Lugano reactor, obtained by the successful application of a new design that has been born studying the results of Lugano.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Q: Can you explain why you now find the Hot Cat is more suitable for home heating than the lower temperature E-Cat?

Andrea Rossi
May 10th, 2015 at 9:48 AM
Frank Acland:
Very interesting question.
In domestic applications we will not have multiple reactors to make up synergies as it is happening with the 1MW plant; for this reason, the low temperature E-Cats are less efficient: the COP of the Hot Cat, when utilized in mono-assemblies, is higher. As I said before, E-Cats are very complex things, much more complex than it appears.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Q: Does this mean you are able to achieve substantial periods of self-sustain mode with a single Hot Cat reactor?

Andrea Rossi
May 10th, 2015 at 1:59 PM
Frank Acland:
Yes: with the Hot Cat we are reaching here inside the computers container very long ssm.
Also its test will last one year. It has been strony modified after the Lugano test.

Warm Regards
A.R.

Rossi said in another comment that although they are planning on using the Hot Cat in domestic appliances, producing electricity from these small units is still an “still an unresolved problem, notwithstanding many prototypes of direct conversion, too “green” to be taken as mature solution”, and that using the Carnot cycle — which would mean a steam generator — is impossible. So the plan at this point is to use the domestic units as heaters only.

It sounds like Industrial Heat has some level of confidence that they will be able to get safety certification for these domestic units now, or they probably wouldn’t be putting in the effort that they are in this area. But it seems unrealistic to expect domestic heaters showing up in the near future, especially now we know there’s another year-long test to wait on.

  • fusionrudy

    Frank, ask A.R. at what temperature the domestic Hot-Cat will deliver steam or water. Then I can provide my own (off-the-shelf?) converter to produce electricity.

    • Leonard Weinstein

      fusionrudy, the only present technology that is efficient enough at small scale use to convert heat to electricity is Stirling cycle generators. The output efficiency at practical power levels and temperatures would be about 25% (at about 350 C effective output temperature), and would likely not use steam, but use a high temperature heat transfer liquid fluid. If the e-cat had an effective COP of 6, the useful excess electrical power would be only 1/3 of the generated power, since the other 2/3 is needed for e-cat operation. If the COP is not much more than 4, no useful excess power would be available, and only heating would be usable, although no separate power would be needed. If the COP is less than 4, or if no electric conversion is made, supply electric power would be needed, either from solar cells or wind turbines, and storage batteries, or from external supply power. If the COP is much larger than 6, and if Stirling generation used, the excess available electric power would be more, or that less supply electricity would be needed.

      The heat from the low temperature side of the Stirling generator, or the heat from the e-cat directly, if electricity generation is not used, can be high enough quality to supply home heating, hot water, and even heat driven cooling and A/C (like gas coolers, or salt evaporation coolers). If all heating and cooling can be obtained, then only electric power to drive the e-cat, and a small amount of additional electric power and batteries to run lights, and other electrical appliances are needed. Solar cells and efficient batteries with this system could make home power independent.

      I did a cost estimate for such systems, and conclude the total cost would not be much less than present gas and electric systems, but might be some less, but more important, could be independent of external systems.

    • Paul Smith

      Yes, it is useful knowing the pressure and temperature of produced steam or water, but it is indispensable knowing also the maximum allowable flow.

  • “Yes: with the Hot Cat we are reaching here inside the computers container very long ssm.”
    I’ve been wondering about this, whether it is the culmination of many seconds or if the ssm runs for tens of minutes or hours. Still not sure.

    • Roger Bird

      The leaves an enormous amount of room for speculation, which some people just love to do. I don’t care much for it.

    • Uncle Bob

      Back on one of the earlier tests which Mats Lewan attended on the original e-cat, he said he could feel the e-cat still bubbling after being switched off for 45 minutes.
      If the hot cats are much better than the originals, they must operate for hours in self sustain mode. That’s just fantastic. It means you would only have to supply power for maybe a few minutes each hour and the rest would be free energy.

  • I don’t understand why Rossi is focused on electricity generation.
    He has a device which generates large amounts of very cheap heat.

    There so many engineers and companies with lots of years of experience who just need heat to make electricity. Why don’t start a partnership and let the electricity problem be a problem of professionals?

    • Gerard McEk

      It may be possible to achieve SSM, but probably that is not controllable in energy production. I guess that the dynamic behaviour between the two systems (Ecat plus generator) is the greatest challenge for a single Ecat home design. I guess they work together with these ‘other’ engineers.

    • Sanjeev

      I don’t understand why Rossi is focused on electricity generation.
      Is he ? I get the impression from above that the whole focus is on heat at this time.

      But I totally agree with the idea of going ahead and making partnerships, that is desperately needed. Not only electricity, but industries like desalination, food, mining, and automobiles etc can benefit a lot. This will bring down the cost of living, thus benefiting all.

      I hope that Darden and co. are actively seeking partnerships, as promised. This is needed more than R&D or mere investments. Once the proper partners are in place, they will do their own R&D and product development, certifications, marketing etc and will invest huge money. And like you said, they can do it much better and faster than a single person (Rossi) or a single company (IH) in a single country (US).

      • Timar

        I agree. I never got the impression that Rossi is particularly focussed on electricity generation. Judging from his comments, he always seem to have considered it a long-term R&D project and not a current priority.

    • Daniel Maris

      Hmm…you say “cheap heat” but you don’t know that. These days what really costs money is labour – especially highly skilled labour. It may be that the E Cat requires quite a lot of skilled labour to operate it. If so, that might preclude it being used as a heating source in many smaller scale facilities (i.e. it might only be economical on a large scale).

      Electricity generation on a big scale might actually suit the E Cat if it does require continued monitoring.

      • Bill

        If a device-system produce heat, it would be very easy to develop automated control system.

  • Gerard McEk

    I am surprised by the remark that the Hot cat has reached a higher COP now than the Ecat as a single unit. At the same time it frustrates me that ‘we’ cannot even get the Hot cat working. What is Rossi’s GREAT idea, what is his Catalyser?

  • Agaricus

    Running the pilot plant seems to be something of a delicate balancing act in which the shortcomings of individual reactors are offset by their numbers, which can be used to reach an acceptable overall output. As the hot cat version is working well and (from what Rossi says) might soon achieve long periods of SSM then it would seem that the LT type used in the pilot plant is therefore already obsolete.

    If he can build a single-core domestic heater, then it should be easily possible to construct a multi-core plant to any required output. Potential buyers will know this, so it is unlikely that IH will be able to sell any LT plants – copies of the pilot plant – leaving only leasing as a viable business model. Priority upgrades to the hot cat versions when these become available would also need to be offered.

    • The market in general is going to optimize the crap out of this technology. It’s just that it’s held prisoner for just a little while longer by Industrial Heat. They argue that there needs to be a lot of testing, careful jumping through regulatory and legal hoops, protection of IP etc. I suppose maybe they are right. But from a technology point of view they are limiting the innovation to their own little crew. I don’t really care if Industrial Heat has the chops to engineer a 1 MW plant. They do but I don’t. Their 1 MW plant will be irrelevant once this technology gets out into the broader consciousness with massive research budgets and thousand of scientists and engineers behind it.

      They are carefully nursing their baby, I get that. They should license this technology ASAP and let industrial giants compete on products they can make with the reactor core. Every day that governments, businesses and individuals make decisions completely in the dark about this soon to be pervasive technology results in wasted money, resources and lives.

      • Agaricus

        Totally agreed.

        If nothing enters the collective political mind quite soon, a new generation of fission power stations will be built and fueled – fait accompli.

        • georgehants

          Peter, my respect for Mr. Rossi and IH, not for his amazing (seemingly) achievements, but for their refusal to pass on to all the guys trying to replicate the effect, the most basic details (that surly can do them little harm) to help their success.

  • Hans Mjølner

    http://www.vdg.no/?menuid=16

    Craftengine 80-215 Celsius input temperature :))

  • Pekka Janhunen

    It’s the full holy grail: a small high-temp device with high COP. Of course it’s a prototype that hasn’t yet undergone long testing. But at this stage, the news couldn’t be better. Rossi just announced it in a somewhat nonchalant way so it’s going a bit underhyped.

  • pelgrim108

    Indeed. I think it would be great if they would sell safe domestic E-Cats in the future, but if it turns out to be to demanding to do this then I would like to see it sold over the internet as a part and let the rest of world figure out how to deal with these parts.

  • Pedro

    Given the vague arrangement between IH, Rossi and The name of Rossi’s own Leonardi still popping up now and then, I wouldn’t be surprised if the agreement with IH is for the 1MW LT eCat only, and the Hot Cat and the domestic market might be Rossi’s private play ground. Does that make any sense?

    • hempenearth

      IH provided the Hot Cat for the Lugano test

    • NT

      IH is apparently providing the place, equipment, etc to test the hot cat, so what does that tell us about ownership of the device?