Rossi on Latest E-Cat Information (Update: “Huge Portfolio of ‘Pioneers'” Lined up to Buy Plants)

There have been a few interesting questions and responses from Andrea Rossi today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today on topics that have been discussed here recently.

On Stirling Engines:

Q: Have you considered the application of stirling engines for smaller, domestic (in the 1 kw range), Micro CHP (combined heat and power) applications? Several stirling engine Micro CHP devices exist on the market already usually with nat. gas boilers. such as this one: http://tinyurl.com/pavwjl4 or this one: http://tinyurl.com/qeg4eme

A: Yes, this is one line of our R&D

On the Customer allowing scientists and news representatives to examine the plant:

Q: Has the customer of the industrial plant that is currently undergoing testing agreed to inspections by outside sources (news representatives, scientists etc.) once the test is completed?

A: The customer that has installed the 1MW E-Cat in his factory is not a R&D laboratory, is a factory that makes an industrial activity. I have not idea what they will do inside their factory after the end of the contractual test on course, but for obvious reasons I would not be surprised if the access to their factory will be limited to the persons involved in their activity. Anyway, this is an issue doesn’t depend on me.
Let me add also that being for sale in the market the E-Cats, it will not be necessary to inspect the E-Cat of others, since anybody can buy one and use it.

On the current performance of the plant:

Q: By my calculations, you must be around the half-way point in your E-Cat plant test. Is the E-Cat more tame than she was near the beginning? Is your anxiety decreasing at all after all this time?

A: As a metter of fact, we are not yet halfway.
Yes, the situation has improved substantially since when we started, anxiety stable too.
Thank you for your simpathy

Q: With current progress on the plant seemingly going well, how does this make you feel?

A: Troubles have always a tomorrow, and ” tomorrow never dies” ( Bond, James Bond)

The question about allowing visits once the testing is complete is an interesting one. We don’t know who the customer is, but presumably they are a commercial operation in a competitive market. If you had an energy plant that was allowing you to get considerable advantage over competitors in your industry through substantial energy savings, would you want to publicize that fact? Would you want news organizations, scientists, skeptics, etc. walking through your plant, or lurking around your premises? Or might you prefer to stay quiet and enjoy your peace and quiet, while reaping the benefits of cheap energy?

On the other hand, if you were an an organization who would want to showcase technological and environmental progress — and get a lot of free publicity in the process, you might encourage the publicity. Certainly, if they wanted to, I think they could get all the publicity they wanted.

I don’t know the answer — I’m just trying to put myself in the shoes of this company.

When Rossi says that it will not be necessary to inspect the plant, because anyone will able to buy a plant and use it, that implies that E-Cat plants will be readily available on the market, with all the performance guarantees that come with industrial equipment. If mass production happens, and the units work as advertised, the speculations and doubts will be over, and we’ll move into a new phase of the E-Cat story.

UPDATE: I asked Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics how potential customers would be able to get verified information about E-Cat products (if they were not able to inspect a working plant). He replied:

The E-Cat will be sold upon contracts that will contain all the necessary guerantees. Who will trust our capacity to fulfill the guarantees will buy the E-Cats, who will not trust will not buy them. That’s it.
We already have a huge portfolio of “pioneers” from all the world ready to buy the E-Cats based on our guarantees. After this first wave of “pioneers” automatically references will be around. Like always happens with new technologies. But remember: maybe nothing will happen of all this, if the final results of the tests on course will be negative, as they might be.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • GenEthics

    Ok. Rossi 4 years bla bla bla…I see that fusion discussion became cold. Why Parkhomov system is not repeatable? Even using his own fuel. I think we must focus on this, something around his experiment was not disclosed or some external factor is involved and we don’t know

    • Nigel Appleton

      I think you have t get used to the fact that the world of LENR is chock-full of incomplete information.

      Has Parkhomov continued to be able to produce excess heat?

      Was the analysis of Parkhomov fuel and ash from his first replication, or subsequent ones?

      When did he start using a stainless steel reaction capsule?

      What did Rossi find so exciting/interesting about the Lugano fuel/ash analyses? What did he not know before, and why not?

      Both fuel analyses showed Fe and other elements associated with steel or stainless steel. Are these essential? Did they come from some process (milling, grinding) used in fuel preparation, or were they added deliberately?

      Do we or do we not need hydrogen at pressure? If so, would that be all the time, for a critical but limited period? – and how much pressure?

      And so on.

      • pelgrim108

        Would be nice if there was a long list of all these legitimate questions.
        I have one to add:
        Did the steel capsules that Mr. Parkhomov used act as Faraday Cages, and if so does this mean that EMF stimulation is not neccesary? ( Tarun first came up with this question)

        • Many types of ‘austenitic’ stainless steel are permeable to EM fields, so whether alternating fields generated in the heating coil were significantly attenuated would depend on what grade of s/s he used. Rossi’s prototype also supposedly used a s/s reactor capsule located at the axis of the seemingly redundant external annular heater that may have been used as an AC field coil.

          On edit: If the latter was the case then almost certainly the arrangement was used to decouple EM field generation from heating (per Stephen, above), in order to allow independent control of field strength, duty cycle and modulation patterns.

          • pelgrim108

            Well that pretty much answers that question. Some types of Stainless Steel let EMF go trough. Also I would be interested to see a photo featuring Mr. Rossi’s redundant external annular heater.

          • Here are some 2011 images showing the layout of the prototypes, stripped of insulation:

            http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2296/5nhr.png

            http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3166577.ece/BINARY/original/Test_1_april+049_600px.jpg

            The external heater is the stainless steel unit attached to what was assumed at the time to be the water jacket surrounding the reactor capsule, where it would obviously not be able to heat the core through the water jacket.

            An alternative explanation (which I now favour for several reasons) for the two sets of input cables might be that the reactor fuel was in fact located within the annular space in the copper ‘water jacket’, while water flowed through a central tube. This would explain the apparent oxidation and heat discolouration of the copper ‘water jacket’, and would mean that the external band heater was in fact the main heater for the reactor. It would also make more sense of the positioning of the hydrogen connection.

            The two cables at the ends of the units – ostensibly for an internal heater – might then have supplied an internal EM coil instead. If that is the case, then the suggestion that the reactor core was housed in an axially located stainless steel capsule would have to be considered to be misdirection, or a misguided assumption by observers.

            Either way, two heaters seem less likely than a heater plus a field generating coil.

          • Omega Z

            I have considered that 1 of the 3 wires in the Hot-cat is actually to create a EM field & not heat. That would explain the 300 watts fed thru the control. The Original LT-cat only required 108 watts thru the control. This wattage difference would imply a much stronger field in the Hot-cat.

            Note that Rossi has said that the controls are “Mostly” the same & the main difference is the software. I see the key word “Mostly” stick out. Whats a couple 100 watts more or less. It’s mostly the same. Right?

          • pelgrim108

            Thanks Agaricus.

        • Stephen

          The EM question is an interesting one. I was at one point wondering if the coupling of the thermal environment and the EM environment was inhibiting the experiments in some way. For example when we turn down the heating we also reduce the EM strength. I had wondered if the EM environment was more permeable for the Parkhomov experiment, but if he is using An effective Faraday cage then the opposite would be the case. Curious. Still it might be interesting to decouple the EM from the heating in some future test… I.e try high and low alternating EM fields independent of the heat.

      • GenEthics

        You’re totally right, we need a clever system to reunite all the information, compile all possibilities, rethink all the variables and then following this path we can reach a conclusion. I see valuable information here and a lot of good ideas but is totally dispersed in thousands of posts. Think ! What system is able to be feed with all that “food for thought” and vomit something useful for us? I have some ideas. Let’s discuss it.

        • pelgrim108

          Are you thinking about a central place where LENR questions and answers, askers and answerers can meet and where the questions and their respective multiple answers are gathered and catalogged by subject ?

      • US_Citizen71

        I believe the reaction Rossi is using is Li7 + H > 2He according to his paper. If true then according to other papers and research the hydrogen pressure is only important in how it effects the temperature required for the lithium to become gaseous and available for the reaction. The nickel would then only possibly be nothing more than hydrogen storage and maybe as a catalyst for ionizing the hydrogen.

    • wonderboy

      I think Parkhomov system hasn’t been repeated is maybe it isn’t as easy as everyone thinks… Seems like the complexity won’t be resolved till Rossi wants it to resolved…

      Rossi isn’t being replicated not because of lack of trying, he is holding his cards close and finally industrial heat seems in control. No more statements of robotized factories producing 1 Million units.

      • Uncle Bob

        When the previous partnership with Defkalion broke up, they believed they had all the information about the e-cat and how it worked.

        They believed they had everything needed to go into production themselves.

        When the wheels fell off the partnership it turned out they had nothing, as evidenced by the lack of any functional products from them in spite of numerous claims of imminent release. “It wasn’t as easy as people think” as you state above..

        I have no doubt IH are in the same situation.

        It has been reported that as partners and new owners of the technology, they have access to all the information required to make a working device. In fact, it was reported they have made their own reactor which was tested and it worked.

        Should the partnership break down as did the Defkalion partnership, it will be interesting to see if devices made by IH continue to work or whether they will behave the same way as all the other replication attempts.

        I think it will be as you said ; “It wasn’t as easy as people think”.
        What could put that question to rest is for a reactor made by IH to be run and tested by a third party with Mr. Rossi not there and having nothing to do with it, as was supposed to have happened in the previous third party testing.
        That would prove conclusively that the technology works, and that IH have access to it, and that it can be replicated.
        I would have thought that IH would insist on this before they throw more money at it, otherwise they could end up in the same boat as Defkalion.

        • Omega Z

          The Defkalion deal fell thru for a lack of follow up on the money end.
          Rossi has received payment from Industrial heat. Many, many a days ago, It was discovered from photos that Darden was one of the people doing the March 2013 Hot-cat test personally before concluding the deal.

          And your right. It isn’t as easy as appears. Rossi has repeatedly made statements to this effect. Especially when people post that it looks easy. Answering, Maybe so, But to me it is quite complex.

          I would note that heating up any device beyond 1000`C can be hazardous. Materials don’t take kindly to those temps if improperly heated up. They can easily crack & with internal pressure even explode.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Actually, I think that is a legitimate question: Why haven’t people repeated the Parkhomov experiment successfully yet? I had expected more successful replications but nothing so far has succeeded. So what is the problem? I can think of a couple of answers:
      – Nobody has done a 100% exact replication of Parkhomov’s setup. An exact replication of what Parkhomov did would be preferred, simply to see if his setup can be replicated.
      – Parkhomov stumbled upon a parameter he hasn’t identified but which is crucial to the setup. Possibly he did something or prepared his reactor in a way he didn’t think important but that may be a key factor we just don’t know.
      – Parkhomov’s experiment wasn’t a success in the first place, although the ash analysis seems to disprove that.
      Personally, I’m thinking the process just is not as simple as the key ingredients suggest. A really specific set of circumstances has to be set in motion before the process will begin. Also the use of the materials is crucial as we are working at the limit of allowed temperatures for those materials. Then the right pressures and specific stages of hydrogen absorption into the nickel matrix are crucial. Any failure for instance of a material at those temperatures, the failure to prepare the nickel surface correctly or the wrong type of “dirty” power probably leads to the failure of an experiment.

      Still, knowledge of LENR is slowly building and the chance of someone getting it right are increasing all the time as more and more people get involved, so I hope and at the moment am quite confident we will have a successful LENR experiment soon.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Dr. Rossi could have the timing just about right. In a few months someone will replicate with a very primitive reactor, just in time for Rossi to unveil his sophisticated highly productive/efficient, fully tested, E-Cats. (:

    • Axil Axil

      From the Hot cat experiments that I have watched here, the management of the Hot cat startup process needs close hands on adjustments. The operator first must keep the reactor from exploding, and second, the operator must get the reaction to self sustain without futher manual adjustment.

      In his first developemnt reactor models, Rossi spent hours monitoring and adjusting his reactors during startup. Now, he has firmware installed in microprocessors doing that work. Parkhomov has mastered this method of startup that has work at least once. Parkhomov must go through the same learning curve that Rossi when through. Rossi eventually got the process down pat to such a degree that he could write as software spec for software development that automatically controles that starts up the E cat.

      • GenEthics

        We have to sort out all possibilities, even that a ridiculous amount of radiation found naturally on some metals like the origin of this Nickel powder can be the trick that triggers the reaction. Who knows ? But every time I talk about radiation or ionization ecatworld put censorship on my posts. I hope they open their minds,…

        • Omega Z

          Such topics “radiation or ionization” have been discussed many times here at ECW.
          Note that sometimes Discuss censorship just happens for no explainable reason. Even to Frank at least once I think.

          I just call it Ghosts in the Machine.

      • Omega Z

        You can also assume that Rossi on occasion has catastrophic Hot-cat reactor failures similar to what happens to MFMP & Parkhomov. On JONP, Rossi had said he sent extra parts. If you recall, we learned latter that Rossi had actually sent 3 reactors to Lugano. None broke so only the 1 was used.

  • Twobob

    I remarked that Mr Rossi’s “tell” is he do not say much about Important Issues.
    So R&D on Stirling And Cat Fusion.

  • Twobob

    I remarked that Mr Rossi’s “tell” is he do not say much about Important Issues.
    So R&D on Stirling And Cat Fusion.

  • Bob Matulis

    Mr Rossi said, “Let me add also that being for sale in the market the E-Cats, it will not be necessary to inspect the E-Cat of others, since anybody can buy one and use it.” If I were to pursue purchasing a plant it would be essential that I first inspect a working plant. Trust has to be earned. A word that is akin to trust is confidence.

    • Twobob

      Yes I agree with you If you are Spending a £1,000.000.
      However this shows how confident Mr Rossi is, About his Equipment.
      He sure has big ones.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      I don’t agree. there will be certain assurances when purchasing a plant, about the quality of the plant etc, that unless delivered upon will result in a contract null-and-void and your money back. The only ‘trust’ you need is that IH won’t go belly up after fraudulently selling bogus plants. with Tom Darden set to lose credibility and millions if that occurred, I don’t think this eventuality likely.

  • Bob Matulis

    Mr Rossi said, “Let me add also that being for sale in the market the E-Cats, it will not be necessary to inspect the E-Cat of others, since anybody can buy one and use it.” If I were to pursue purchasing a plant it would be essential that I first inspect a working plant. Trust has to be earned. A word that is akin to trust is confidence.

    • Twobob

      Yes I agree with you If you are Spending a £1,000.000.
      However this shows how confident Mr Rossi is, About his Equipment.
      He sure has big ones.

    • NCY

      I don’t agree. there will be certain assurances when purchasing a plant, about the quality of the plant etc, that unless delivered upon will result in a contract null-and-void and your money back. The only ‘trust’ you need is that IH won’t go belly up after fraudulently selling bogus plants. with Tom Darden set to lose credibility and millions if that occurred, I don’t think this eventuality likely.

  • Twobob

    I would like to suggest to the administrator’s of this blog,
    That If Mr Rossi’s E-Cat becomes as we hope a Success.
    That It might be respectful to apply the correct appellation.
    I personally only call people I well know by just their Sir name.

    • Omega Z

      YES!

      We shall call him Sir Rossi.
      🙂

      • Omega Z

        Such topics “radiation or ionization” have been discussed many times here at ECW.
        Note that sometimes Discuss censorship just happens for no explainable reason. Even to Frank at least once I think.

        I just call it Ghosts in the Machine.

  • Twobob

    I would like to suggest to the administrator’s of this blog,
    That If Mr Rossi’s E-Cat becomes as we hope a Success.
    That It might be respectful to apply the correct appellation.
    I personally only call people I well know by just their Sir name.

    • Omega Z

      YES!

      We shall call him Sir Rossi.
      🙂

    • Robert Ellefson

      Respect must be earned in greater proportion than contempt, IMHO. Right now, I have about five billion reasons to regard Rossi with contempt, while the respect-generating factors seem to fade further away with nearly every new statement he makes.

      • So an open, objective assessment of the evidence then…

  • Nigel Appleton

    I think you have t get used to the fact that the world of LENR is chock-full of incomplete information.

    Has Parkhomov continued to be able to produce excess heat?

    Was the analysis of Parkhomov fuel and ash from his first replication, or subsequent ones?

    When did he start using a stainless steel reaction capsule?

    What did Rossi find so exciting/interesting about the Lugano fuel/ash analyses? What did he not know before, and why not?

    Both fuel analyses showed Fe and other elements associated with steel or stainless steel. Are these essential? Did they come from some process (milling, grinding) used in fuel preparation, or were they added deliberately?

    Do we or do we not need hydrogen at pressure? If so, would that be all the time, for a critical but limited period? – and how much pressure?

    And so on.

    • pelgrim108

      Would be nice if there was a long list of all these legitimate questions.

      • Agaricus

        Many types of ‘austenitic’ stainless steel are permeable to EM fields, so that would depend on what grade of s/s he used, I think. Rossi’s prototype used a s/s reactor capsule which was located at the centre of the external annular heater that may have been used as an AC field coil.

        • pelgrim108

          Well that pretty much answers that question. Some types of Stainless Steel let EMF go trough. Also I would be interested to see a photo featuring Mr. Rossi’s redundant external annular heater.

          • Agaricus

            Here’s an image showing the layout of the prototypes:

            http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2296/5nhr.png

            The external heater is the stainless steel unit attached to what is assumed to be the water jacket surrounding the reactor, where it would obviously not be able to heat the core.

            An alternative explanation for the two sets of input cables might be that the reactor was in fact located within the annular space in the copper ‘water jacket’, while water flowed through the centre. The two cables at the end of the units – ostensibly for the primary heater – might then have supplied an internal coil wound onto the cooling water pipe.

            Either way, two ‘heaters’ seems less likely than a heater plus a field generating coil.

          • Omega Z

            I have considered that 1 of the 3 wires in the Hot-cat is actually to create a EM field & not heat. That would explain the 300 watts fed thru the control. The Original LT-cat only required 108 watts thru the control. This wattage difference would imply a much stronger field in the Hot-cat.

            Note that Rossi has said that the controls are “Mostly” the same & the main difference is the software. I see the key word “Mostly” stick out. Whats a couple 100 watts more or less. It’s mostly the same. Right?

          • pelgrim108

            Thanks Agaricus.

      • Stephen

        The EM question is an interesting one. I was at one point wondering if the coupling of the thermal environment and the EM environment was inhibiting the experiments in some way. For example when we turn down the heating we also reduce the EM strength. I had wondered if the EM environment was more permeable for the Parkhomov experiment, but if he is using An effective Faraday cage then the opposite would be the case. Curious. Still it might be interesting to decouple the EM from the heating in some future test… I.e try high and low alternating EM fields independent of the heat.

    • GenEthics

      You’re totally right, we need a clever system to reunite all the information, compile all possibilities, rethink all the variables and then following this path we can reach a conclusion. I see valuable information here and a lot of good ideas but is totally dispersed in thousands of posts. Think ! What system is able to be feed with all that “food for thought” and vomit something useful for us? I have some ideas. Let’s discuss it.

      • pelgrim108

        Are you thinking about a central place where LENR questions and answers, askers and answerers can meet and where the questions and their respective multiple answers are gathered and catalogged by subject ?

    • US_Citizen71

      I believe the reaction Rossi is using is Li7 + H > 2He according to his paper. If true then according to other papers and research the hydrogen pressure is only important in how it effects the temperature required for the lithium to become gaseous and available for the reaction. The nickel would then only possibly be nothing more than hydrogen storage and maybe as a catalyst for ionizing the hydrogen.

  • Don’t forget the waiting list for the home heaters. I believe Rossi still has that list and will honor your place in line.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Let’s hope so; I’m early on that list 😉

      • The first models might very well be valuable collector’s items in 50 years.

        • Frank Acland

          They might still work in 50 years, too. I learned this week from a local farmer that they have three John Deere tractors that are 51 years old that are still working well daily on the farm. I was impressed.

          • *Early Apple-1 Computer Sold by Steve Jobs Fetches $365k at Auction*

            “A fully operational Apple computer that company co-founder Steve Jobs sold out of his parents’ garage in 1976 for $600 fetched $365,000 at Christie’s on Thursday.”

            “Fewer than 50 original Apple-1s are believed to be in existence of the few hundred originally produced.”

            http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/early-apple-1-computer-sold-steve-jobs-fetches-365k-auction-n266661

          • Omega Z

            Was a farmer who still drove his steel tread wheeled tractor on the farm. One of the 1st with a combustion engine instead of a steam engine.

            He jumped up on the hitch and a bolt sheared off dropping the hitch and
            Broke his leg. He filed a suit for defective equipment.

            The Judge thought obviously no one would be silly enough to sue over an 80 year old bolt breaking off.
            So he looked at the farmer & said. Don’t worry it will heal.

      • Omega Z

        I called in my political favors & got moved to the 1st position on the list.

        Alas, i found out to late that Rossi doesn’t practice 1st in 1st out.
        He starts at the bottom & works his way up. 🙁

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Actually, I think that is a legitimate question: Why haven’t people repeated the Parkhomov experiment successfully yet? I had expected more successful replications but nothing so far has succeeded. So what is the problem? I can think of a couple of answers:
    – Nobody has done a 100% exact replication of Parkhomov’s setup. An exact replication of what Parkhomov did would be preferred, simply to see if his setup can be replicated.
    – Parkhomov stumbled upon a parameter he hasn’t identified but which is crucial to the setup. Possibly he did something or prepared his reactor in a way he didn’t think important but that may be a key factor we just don’t know.
    – Parkhomov’s experiment wasn’t a success in the first place, although the ash analysis seems to disprove that.
    Personally, I’m thinking the process just is not as simple as the key ingredients suggest. A really specific set of circumstances has to be set in motion before the process will begin. Also the use of the materials is crucial as we are working at the limit of allowed temperatures for those materials. Then the right pressures and specific stages of hydrogen absorption into the nickel matrix are crucial. Any failure for instance of a material at those temperatures, the failure to prepare the nickel surface correctly or the wrong type of “dirty” power probably leads to the failure of an experiment.

    Still, knowledge of LENR is slowly building and the chance of someone getting it right are increasing all the time as more and more people get involved, so I hope and at the moment am quite confident we will have a successful LENR experiment soon.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I especially like this question and answer. It shows the intellectual depth of our favorite inventor.

    Koen Vandewalle

    May 14th, 2015 at 3:30 PM

    Since we’re waiting for something that can be positive or negative between december and february.

    One day, God visited the Earth. He arrived in kindergarten, introduced himself and explained everything about the universe. How the atomic nuclei are made, how gravity works, how we are connected to each other, why life is made finite, and how people should organize their economy and their society in order to live happily in harmony with nature and the earth. All attendees must record everything he had said. Years later he discovered that the people, despite his personal explanation, had learned little.

    I wrote “kindergarten”, but we can write whatever we want, the outcome will be the same. Why is that ?

    Kind Regards,
    Koen

    Andrea Rossi

    May 14th, 2015 at 4:32 PM

    Koen Vandewalle:
    Because if you explain the same thing in the same way to billions of persons, they will understand the same things in millions of completely different ways, then will try pacifically to prevail upon the other interpretations, then, when any diplomatic way will have failed, they will make series of wars to make their way of understanding prevail. At the end, will not prevail who will have understood better, but who will kill more enemies. The latter is also the one who will write the History.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Quote: “He arrived in kindergarten, introduced himself and explained everything
      about the universe. How the atomic nuclei are made, how gravity works,
      how we are connected to each other, why life is made finite, and how
      people should organize their economy and their society in order to live
      happily in harmony with nature and the earth. All attendees must record
      everything he had said”

      And what did we pick up from all of that?

      42

      • Aren’t you off by 6 Zed?

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Nope, see my reply to Bernie

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Read the “see more”. Then, if you have to ask the same question, I can’t help you.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          It’s a joke. Just ask google this question:

          “the answer to life the universe and everything”

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Sorry, but what has this to do with Rossi’s answer to the question?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Dr. Rossi could have the timing just about right. In a few months someone will replicate with a very primitive reactor, just in time for Rossi to unveil his sophisticated highly productive/efficient E-Cats. (:

  • Axil Axil

    From the Hot cat experiments that I have watched here, the management of the Hot cat startup process needs close hands on adjustments. The operator first must keep the reactor from exploding, and second, the operator must get the reaction to self sustain with out futher manual adjustment.

    In his first developemnt reactor models, Rossi spent hours monitoring and adjusting his reactors during startup. Now, he has firmware installed in microprocessors doing that work. Parkhomov has mastered this method of startup that has work at least once. Parkhomov must go through the same learing curve that Rossi when through. Rossi eventually got the process down pat to such a degree that he could write as software spec for software development that austomatically controles that starts up the E cat.

    • Omega Z

      You can also assume that Rossi on occasion has catastrophic Hot-cat reactor failures similar to what happens to MFMP & Parkhomov. On JONP, Rossi had said he sent extra parts. If you recall, we learned latter that Rossi had actually sent 3 reactors to Lugano. None broke so only the 1 was used.

  • Stephen

    This is very good news I think. It sounds to me that he has prepared very well for the release and distribution of the his technology. Also that there are significant and established industries that are already taking him seriously. I’m really looking forward to this time next year. Even if it takes longer he and his team have already raised the profile of LENR to the mainstream. That he is already testing and validating a system that can be used on an industrial scale is really amazing. I believe industries will be ready as they hear more about working LENR and will be as amazed by it as we are.

    • Daniel Maris

      Until we hear IH confirm this to be the case, it means nothing. Get real.

      • pelgrim108

        If find Mr. Rossi to have a very good track record in these kind of statements.
        So to me it does mean something.

        • ecatworld
          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            I believe that IH is allowing Mr. Rossi to be their spokesperson for now, i also believe that his words are being proofread by others prior to publishing.
            I believe this because the style and quality of his english has increased markedly following his acquisition by IH. (in other words his responses are likely being proofread by an editor before posting).
            edit: BTW three of those questions were mine.

  • Stephen

    This is very good news I think. It sounds to me that Andrea Rossi has prepared very well for the release and distribution of the his technology. Also that there are significant and established industries that are already taking him seriously. I’m really looking forward to this time next year. Even if it takes longer he and his team have already raised the profile of LENR to the mainstream. That he is already testing and validating a system that can be used on an industrial scale is really amazing. I believe industries will be ready as they hear more about working LENR and will be as amazed by it as we are.

  • Daniel Maris

    We definitely need to hear from Industrial Heat, owners of the IP. Why aren’t they coming out and saying the same thing as Rossi? It’s a puzzle.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      rossi is IH head of R&D, he speaks for IH on technical issues. they are happy to let him continue to do so. rest assured that his words are being proofread by an editor prior to posting (his english improved by leaps and bounds after being hired by IH).

    • Omega Z

      Daniel

      What Rossi posts on JONP reflects on IH.
      I think if they had a problem with what he says, they would discuss that with him. Don’t you.

      I also think that the inclusion of results may be positive, but could also be negative is attributable to IH/Darden. That little phrase started immediately after the Leonardo/Industrial heat deal went through.

      From Dardens own statements at ICCF, He is not looking to make a grand announcement. Only to bring a product to market.

  • Private Citizen

    My understanding was that the cold eCat was available for purchase for years, but the only one sold was to the first secret client. Is that client still secret, or was it IH?

    Now we know that the new secret client might limit access to the persons involved in their activity. So after waiting the first year, we might have to wait for one or more of the “pioneers” to open up the technology for inspection, unless they too are secret.

    Or maybe we wait until Darden & Rossi give a demo and a keynote sometime soon (oh, happy day!)–maybe with a little Apple or Tesla flourish

    Remaining hopeful, i just grow very impatient with the ever moving goalpost. Would like to see this technology sometime in our actual lifetimes, if it is real.

    When is the next MFMP attempt?

    • ecatworld

      Yes, it’s still unclear what will happen at the end of the testing. Rossi has indicated in the past that select visitors will be able to see the plant in action, but also has said that access will depend on the customer. So I’m not sure we can count on the doors to this factory being opened to the press and others so they can see the E-Cat in action.

    • Gerard McEk

      If the results are positive Rossi will reveal details. How this ‘customer’ will act is indeed not in hands of IH/Rossi. It should at least be clear who that customer is and that this customer declares the results Rossi revealed are true. The whole exercise seems to me totally uneffective if that is not done. Just looking to a plant in operation may be interesting but should not really convince anyone unless you will be allowed to investigate it thoroughly. Unless this customer is convinced that LENR is the new fire and that they believe that they should promote that, excess to the plant will not be allowed. BTW for me it is unthinkable that any entity would be so narrow minded that it would not allow verification of such an important invention. (I hope they will read this).

    • deleo77

      Even if we take Rossi on his word there is the simple issue that the rest of the energy world is passing him by. Yes, if LENR works and Rossi has figured it out it would be a big deal. But, over the next year or two solar is expected to fall below 50 cents per watt. That is cheaper than coal. Battery storage is improving at 8% per year. So a decent rooftop solar installation and a couple of Tesla battery packs and a typical home can pretty much live off the grid. This is happening now. Three or four giga-factories are being built today for large scale battery production – Tesla, BYD, Samsung etc.

      There is also BLP, which I know many here are skeptical about, but I do think we will see a commercial prototype launched by them this summer. Their SunCell would really take the wind out of LENR’s sails IMO. So over time I can’t help but think that the E-cat may simply become less interesting. IH and Rossi seem like they are mind numbingly focused on this one plant for this one customer. I really wish they would open their doors and show the world what they have.

  • Private Citizen

    My understanding was that the cold eCat was available for purchase for years, but the only one sold was to the first secret client. Is that client still secret, or was it IH?

    Now we know that the new secret client might limit access to the persons involved in their activity. So after waiting the first year, we might have to wait for one or more of the “pioneers” to open up the technology for inspection, unless they too are secret.

    Or maybe we wait until Darden & Rossi give a demo and a keynote sometime soon (oh, happy day!)–maybe with a little Apple or Tesla flourish

    Remaining hopeful, i just grow very impatient with the ever moving goalpost. Would like to see this technology sometime in our actual lifetimes, if it is real.

    When is the next MFMP attempt?

    • Frank Acland

      Yes, it’s still unclear what will happen at the end of the testing. Rossi has indicated in the past that select visitors will be able to see the plant in action, but also has said that access will depend on the customer. So I’m not sure we can count on the doors to this factory being opened to the press and others so they can see the E-Cat in action.

      • Greg Pierce

        I am just pulling the quote from AR here:

        But remember: maybe nothing will happen of all this, if the final results of the tests on course will be negative, as they might be.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        At this point, how is it even possible that there may be a negative result?

        • Omega Z

          There are actually quite a number of things that could go wrong.
          For industrial use, it needs to meet quite a few criteria.

          It may save a lot of energy, but should all the reactors need replaced every year that would be a problem. It would be back to R&D. Rossi is also intent to run them for a full year or until the fuel exhausts & needs refilled which ever comes 1st & still operate for a full year.. This is to determine how accurate his fuel guesstimates are. He has never ran 1 beyond 6 months.

          There are many things that work in the world, but may be impractical in real world operation. It happens all the time. I imagine Rossi has a whole list of obstacles to watch for & more important, The Unknowns.
          When the physical test is concluded, Some reactors will likely be sacrificed to autopsy. Tons of data to analyze & changes to be made.

          You know, Rossi is spending 16 hours a day 7 days a week in that container. He isn’t doing that for his health. He’s doing it because it’s just that important.

          • Greg Pierce

            It would really be helpful if the folks that interact on a periodic basis with AR can get him to clarify his statements such that a person could determine unequivocally what exactly he is referring to when he uses these types of phrases. When he states things like “positive or negative” or, more recently, the quote from him I pasted above, it could be interpreted altogether quite differently. It could be interpreted that he is providing an escape clause such that in the future, he divines that the process (overall) has such a low COP across a 1+ year test as to be within the margin of error of not really producing excess power. For those who believe that LENR+ is a done deal, there will be no end to the explanations of what AR might have meant. For those who do not believe in LENR, his repeated use of phrases such as “positive or negative” or the quote referenced above, they will interpret that AR is a fraud. In the absence of any irrefutable data, this ping pong game can go on indefinitely. Would it not serve the purpose of this board to construct some questions such that we can unequivocally determine if AR is referring to either the process of the eCAT or the substance of the reaction to put this particular conundrum to rest? If it is a language/translation problem, perhaps an Italian can be found who can negate this possibility. If the consensus of this forum would like, I could take a stab at providing the questions in English, if not – I guess I will continue to be frustrated by the extreme gross lack of clarity. Just my two cents.

          • Robert Ellefson

            Your frustration is Rossi’s objective. Clarity in his statements would only serve his ‘opponents’ in his warped world view. I pray for deliverance from this dark cloud hanging over humanity.

          • The dark cloud is already in place in the form of the threats posed by continuing dependence on fossil fuels and on nuclear power in particular. Rossi’s technology represents a possible route of deliverance.

            What possible reason could he have for attempting to frustrate anyone?

          • Omega Z

            If you keep this pilot plant test in context, “positive or negative” makes sense.

            It is primarily to determine dependability & reliability. It doesn’t matter how much it saves a business today if it’s broke down the rest of the week. The only way to determine these factors is to run it for a year. Tho Rossi may believe the outcome could be positive, He can’t with any certainty say that. Thus, The results could be “positive or negative”. For Rossi to say either way at this time would be irresponsible.

            Quarried from Rossi’s posts on JONP, The Pilot plant can’t produce 1Mwh of heat without a COP=4. Given the availability of & the interrelationship of Natural Gas to Electricity, COP=4 is just barely beyond breakeven. A Customer will need more incentive then that to make a change. With that in mind, even a positive outcome could be considered a negative & send Rossi back to R&D.

            Ultimately, Even if everything is going smoothly & COP very high today, there are a number of things that could go wrong. To expect Rossi to give a conclusive statement at this time isn’t reasonable.

            Note that even a negative isn’t necessarily the end. It may just require a little more R&D or just an engineering issue to be resolved.

            I would keep in mind that this plant has been running on the clock for at least 5 months. If things weren’t going at least somewhat positive, I think they would have pulled the plug by now.

          • Greg Pierce

            Thank you for the attempt at explaining his odd phraseology. Your projection makes complete sense but I remain skeptical. Something is not right here but it is obvious to me that he will continue to qualify his statements such that he remains viable until retirement. As Mark Cuban would say on Shark Tank “I’m out”.

          • Eyedoc

            If I understand how AR works, there is already reactors being pulled on a scheduled basis and ‘autopsied’……….personally I think AR is at the ‘fun’ part of his Ecat adventure. Money inhand, he’s tinkering and lining up future improvements with a select staff, while everyone else is fumbling to just get some basics of LENR to work.

    • Gerard McEk

      If the results are positive Rossi will reveal details. How this ‘customer’ will act is indeed not in hands of IH/Rossi. It should at least be clear who that customer is and that this customer declares the results Rossi revealed are true. The whole exercise seems to me totally uneffective if that is not done. Just looking to a plant in operation may be interesting but should not really convince anyone unless you will be allowed to investigate it thoroughly. Unless this customer is convinced that LENR is the new fire and that they believe that they should promote that, excess to the plant will not be allowed. BTW for me it is unthinkable that any entity would be so narrow minded that it would not allow verification of such an important invention. (I hope they will read this).

    • deleo77

      Even if we take Rossi on his word there is the simple issue that the rest of the energy world is passing him by. Yes, if LENR works and Rossi has figured it out it would be a big deal. But, over the next year or two solar is expected to fall below 50 cents per watt. That is cheaper than coal. Battery storage is improving at 8% per year. So a decent rooftop solar installation and a couple of Tesla battery packs and a typical home can pretty much live off the grid. This is happening now. Three or four giga-factories are being built today for large scale battery production – Tesla, BYD, Samsung etc.

      There is also BLP, which I know many here are skeptical about, but I do think we will see a commercial prototype launched by them this summer. Their SunCell would really take the wind out of LENR’s sails IMO. So over time I can’t help but think that the E-cat may simply become less interesting. IH and Rossi seem like they are mind numbingly focused on this one plant for this one customer. I really wish they would open their doors and show the world what they have.

      • What you do not consider is power density:

        1) Industrial use need a lot of energy concentrated in a small place. You are in the MW space just for a 42 MW for a 65 ton induction furnace. And the world production of steel was 1,232.4 millions of tonne.
        add, ships, train, chemical industries, etc.

        2) Locations are not always well suited for solar use, like place with a lot of powders, very cold places, underwater locations, etc.
        If an hurricane hit, all your solar panel will be nicely around the place not able to produce anything useful. An e-cat containerized could produce energy anyway.

  • Gerrit

    this means that we’ll only hear from Rossi that the 400 day test was successful and that he is delivering plants to his customers. We’ll not hear anything else, until one of his customers decides to present the plant to the world.

    400 day test finished -> February/March 2016
    Plant produced for new customer (+ 6 months) -> September 2016
    Plant delivered and running at new customer (+6 months) -> March 2017
    Plant presented to the world by new customer -> April 2017 earliest

    What a joke !

  • Mark

    Didn’t Rossi say that the test plant would be open for potential serious customers to inspect? If so then what happened?

    • Greg Pierce

      From what I can determine, it all depends if the results are “positive or they may be negative”…

      I continue to be baffled by his continued use of the phrase that I have put within quotes above. He has used other variations on this but I cannot seem to understand if he is referring to the plant process or the substance of what the COP is doing “over time”, more specifically the 1+ year test/demonstration. I recommended (below) that folks who have the ability to have their questions answered should try to get him to be more forthcoming on the subject. This is truly baffling to me and I cannot understand how, with so many days of the plant “working” and allusions to long periods of “SSM”, how could any of this still possibly be negative. Folks keep projecting about all of the hundreds, if not thousands of eCats that “maybe” cranked out as a result of the test and AR still doesn’t seems to know if the results are going to work – this is just me pulling from his quotes on JONP but usually they are reposted on this site. I get the feeling that he must be running into some kind of problems because he continues to qualify his statements such that everything may have to be scrapped and he may need to go “back to the drawing board”. That scenario would produce a great deal of angst on this site. I certainly wish he would stop using that phrase or words to that effect.

      • Mark

        I think most old-timers on this site have long suspected that Ecat’s have unsolved control issues that had not been resolved and some that still may not be resolved. They are stuck with “version 1 Ecat’s” to test long term but probably are upgrading the design as things go. But these newer and likely better designs aren’t part of the test plant. Possibly bc they would have to restart the tests and cause more long delays. So they band-aid the system until this test is over. I bet other stuff we do not hear about is going on at the same time and these are the real secrets.

    • Omega Z

      He indicated it may be, but it ultimately depends on the customer.

      My opinion is they will be highly selective as to who they allow in & those interested & allowed in may also not want their names disclosed.
      If this pilot plant proves successful, you only need to use your imagination as to the chaos & hassle could arise. The situation could turn into a circus early on. They all will probably want to keep everything low key until several units are installed & in use.

      I thought Dardens ICCF speech was a little telling. He is not interested in a big press release & the publicity that goes with it. Only to bring the technology to market. So likely, details & positive evidence will slowly bleed out as certain entities leak the details. Not what Rossi’s followers were hoping for.

      • Mark

        Thanks, that makes sense. I guess that after a handful of successful installations, there will be a press frenzy once the word gets out.

        The specs for these plants is what we will have to believe until things become more open. Wonder when the spec sheets will be done.

        • Omega Z

          Sometimes putting yourself in the other persons shoe can provide a different outlook. Not everyone wants the Paparazzi experience. Especially when it interferes with operations.

          If the Pilot plant is a success, Rossi will move on to the next phase. It then becomes much harder to suppress leaks when you aren’t present. I would guess leaks would start within 6 months after Rossi is gone from the plant if not sooner.

          From what I understand from past Apple employees, Steve Jobs employed a security team to intimidate & keep people silent. Even that didn’t stop all the leaks. Spec sheets will probably be disclosed by Rossi, but for a time, that will be a Rossi says. It will also change with R&D.

  • NTAK

    I’ve been following this for years and nothing has changed. Can someone (anyone) please explain to me why Rossi can’t start selling his magic box’s, it’s been over 4 years now since he came forward… At first I was hopeful he would release something soon, but now I don’t think we will ever see a product for sale.

    Before anyone run’s their mouth about how long it takes to bring a new technology to market, go read about Tesla’s new “Powerwall” home battery that will cost $3,500 for 10kWh units. Oh by the way, the Tesla $5 billion gigafactory really being built in Reno, Nevada right now and Powerwall deliveries will begin this summer. Where is Rossi factory being built?

    • Omega Z

      “will cost $3,500 for 10kWh units”
      Before getting giddy about this, look into the details.

      They will cost near double that after installation & 10Kwh is just that. 1000 watts for 10 hours. Enough to run a minimum of things in you home like your fridge & a few lights for 10 hours. The average home uses 30+Kwh’s everyday on average. Given that, you need 3 or more of these for 1 days normal operation then they need recharged.

      Considering $5K(Probably more) for 1 Powerwall unit of 10Kwh & an average of 1250 charging cycles- equals approximately 40 cents per 1Kwh. The cost of electricity is extra. It also requires more then 10Kwh to charge a 10Kwh battery. Something like 20%-30%, so maybe 12.5Kwh gets you 10Kwh in the battery.
      ————————————————————————
      These are also not Tesla’s batteries nor are they li-ion. They are an outsourced generic battery(nickel-cobalt-aluminum cathode).

      Musk’s Mega plant is scheduled to start production of li-ion batteries sometime in 2017. Some suggest it may be 2018. The full plant itself wont be fully completed until 2025. That’s roughly 11 years to build-out & fully equip for full production capacity. Nothing is being invented or in R&D. Just off the shelf technology.

  • Alex Ruiz

    Dear Mr. Acland.

    Do you think in good faith that Rossi’s behaviour regarding his followers and in the first place you self is fair? With nickname Alexvs I have exposed to you time ago that Rossi should not play with hopes and expectations of so many people. If you reallly have strong reasons to believe Rossi sayings after so many delays and contradictions (being euphemistic) please let us know, because otherwise after 2011 sale to the secret customer nothing has been produced, I mean, a working E-Cat.

    • Frank Acland

      Dear Alex,

      I don’t see Rossi’s behaviour in terms of being fair, or unfair. I accept it for what it is. Rossi could say nothing at all, but chooses to communicate via the JONP, and I assume he has his reasons for saying, or not saying, certain things.

      Each person should make their own decisions about how they respond Rossi. I have my own reasons for having a high level of confidence in the Rossi Effect being real and useful, many of which I have summarized here:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/why-i-believe-in-the-e-cat/

      I can’t prove anything 100% to others, each person has to make their own decision. If it makes people unhappy to follow the subject, I would suggest they stay away from it.

    • Eyedoc

      Face it, AR has done what not 1 other human can do. Give him his respect due.
      The more attempts that fail , the more impressive his work.
      If you want to bi*&ch at someone to produce, try the PTB government/ NASA black ops.

      • Alberonn

        Oh c’mon Eyedoc, Alex is n’t really bi*&ching : he probably is really hoping Frank knows someting from Rossi we don’t know : it is important to keep hope alive in our little LENR-community is these times of failing replication-efforts and announcement of further delays by Rossi cs. Rossi is constantly making it clear : he ‘s working his buds off, but nothing to be expected on short- or middlelongterm : we need open source replicators to succeed to get in the winning-mood again !

  • Eyedoc

    Face it, AR has done what not 1 other human can do. Give him his respect due.
    The more attempts that fail , the more impressive his work.
    If you want to bi*&ch at someone to produce, try the PTB government/ NASA black ops.

    • Alberonn

      Oh c’mon Eyedoc, Alex is n’t really bi*&ching : he probably is really hoping Frank knows someting from Rossi we don’t know : it is important to keep hope alive in our little LENR-community is these times of failing replication-efforts and announcement of further delays by Rossi cs. Rossi is constantly making it clear : he ‘s working his buds off, but nothing to be expected on short- or middlelongterm : we need open source replicators to succeed to get in the winning-mood again !

  • Omega Z

    If you keep this pilot plant test in context, “positive or negative” makes sense.

    It is primarily to determine dependability & reliability. It doesn’t matter how much it saves a business today if it’s broke down the rest of the week. The only way to determine these factors is to run it for a year. Tho Rossi may believe the outcome could be positive, He can’t with any certainty say that. Thus, The results could be “positive or negative”. For Rossi to say either way at this time would be irresponsible.

    Quarried from Rossi’s posts on JONP, The Pilot plant can’t produce 1Mwh of heat without a COP=4. Given the availability of & the interrelationship of Natural Gas to Electricity, COP=4 is just barely beyond breakeven. A Customer will need more incentive then that to make a change. With that in mind, even a positive outcome could be considered a negative & send Rossi back to R&D.

    Ultimately, Even if everything is going smoothly & COP very high today, there are a number of things that could go wrong. To expect Rossi to give a conclusive statement at this time isn’t reasonable.

    Note that even a negative isn’t necessarily the end. It may just require a little more R&D or just an engineering issue to be resolved.

    I would keep in mind that this plant has been running on the clock for at least 5 months. If things weren’t going at least somewhat positive, I think they would have pulled the plug by now.

    • Greg Pierce

      Thank you for the attempt at explaining his odd phraseology. Your projection makes complete sense but I remain skeptical. Something is not right here but it is obvious to me that he will continue to qualify his statements such that he remains viable until retirement. As Mark Cuban would say on Shark Tank “I’m out”.

  • Omega Z

    “will cost $3,500 for 10kWh units”
    Before getting giddy about this, look into the details.

    They will cost near double that after installation & 10Kwh is just that. 1000 watts for 10 hours. Enough to run a minimum of things in you home like your fridge & a few lights for 10 hours. The average home uses 30+Kwh’s everyday on average. Given that, you need 3 or more of these for 1 days normal operation then they need recharged.

    Considering $5K(Probably more) for 1 Powerwall unit of 10Kwh & an average of 1250 charging cycles- equals approximately 40 cents per 1Kwh. The cost of electricity is extra. It also requires more then 10Kwh to charge a 10Kwh battery. Something like 20%-30%, so maybe 12.5Kwh gets you 10Kwh in the battery.
    ————————————————————————
    These are also not Tesla’s batteries nor are they li-ion. They are an outsourced generic battery(nickel-cobalt-aluminum cathode).

    Musk’s Mega plant is scheduled to start production of li-ion batteries sometime in 2017. Some suggest it may be 2018. The full plant itself wont be fully completed until 2025. That’s roughly 11 years to build-out & fully equip for full production capacity. Nothing is being invented or in R&D. Just off the shelf technology.

  • Omega Z

    Sometimes putting yourself in the other persons shoe can provide a different outlook. Not everyone wants the Paparazzi experience. Especially when it interferes with operations.

    If the Pilot plant is a success, Rossi will move on to the next phase. It then becomes much harder to suppress leaks when you aren’t present. I would guess leaks would start within 6 months after Rossi is gone from the plant if not sooner.

    From what I understand from past Apple employees, Steve Jobs employed a security team to intimidate & keep people silent. Even that didn’t stop all the leaks. Spec sheets will probably be disclosed by Rossi, but for a time, that will be a Rossi says. It will also change with R&D.

  • Agaricus

    The dark cloud is already in place in the form of the threats posed by continuing dependence on fossil fuels and on nuclear power in particular. Rossi’s technology represents a possible route of deliverance.

    What possible reason could he have for attempting to frustrate anyone?