Rossi: Hot Cat Performance ‘Decisively Superior’ to Low Temperature E-Cats

Maybe it’s just me, but from comments he has been making on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, I am getting the feeling that Andrea Rossi is paying more attention to the Hot Cats (high temperature E-Cats) that he is testing inside the shipping container, than to the 1 MW plant he is overseeing there.

Comments yesterday indicate that things are going very well with the Hot Cat in terms of performance. A reader asked him today, “presently ( I mean now) do you think that the small E-Cats, the ones of 10-20 kW, are competitive with the Hot Cats ?”

Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi

Sylvie Lacoste:
I noticed that you underlined “I mean now” to avoid the crystal ball ( he,he,he…). Well, I mean now I think the Hot Cats have a performance decisively superior to the low temperature small E-Cats.
Now I can see them compete, the Hot Cat inside the computer container vs the small E-Cats. We can have much longer ssm with the Hot Cats.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi has already said that the low temperature plant is capable of long self-sustain periods, partly due to a ‘clustering’ effect, where one reactor is able to provide energy to another reactor — so ‘much longer’ ssm with the Hot Cat could be very impressive.

Having self sustaining E-Cats running at very high temperature should mean that this technology is going to be very suitable for electricity production as well as heat production. From what Andrea Rossi is saying, this sounds to be the kind of technology that could make electricity generation from any kind of fossil fuel or conventional nuclear obsolete, since the fuels involved are so cheap and are consumed in tiny quantities, and there is no pollution, radiation or radioactive waste produced.

But lest we get too carried away by the prospects of this technology, we are reminded by Rossi in a comment to Hank Mills yesterday: “The data related to the COP, as well as all the publishable data, will be given after the end of the test and R&D on course. I have the duty to remember that the final results could be either positive or negative.”

  • Observer

    Note: He is saying the new Hot-Cats have much longer ssm than the older generation small warm-cats. He is not comparing the new Hot-Cats’ ssm to the new 250KW warm cats’ ssm.

    • Omega Z

      If Rossi actually means the OLD E-cats, we know he always claimed COP>6.
      The 1Mw Pilot plant uses a different version Model B. Anyway, Rossi doesn’t always provide much clarity on these things. Leaving the particulars for those of us who overly speculate.

  • Colibric41AC

    but cold cat is easiest to replicate.

    • Arnaud

      Do you have the recipe?

  • With the wild nature of the Cats, clustering seems to make a lot of sense.

  • Daniel Maris

    I say, let’s see the 1 MW plant in operation…then we can get excited about the hot cat.

  • So, the low temperature E-Cat is rumored to now have a COP over 20, and sometime up to 80. What does that mean for the “superior” Hot-Cat’s COP?

    • It means that it’s likely that the theoretical COP (after startup energy costs) approaches infinity (another way of saying energy required for control is the only required input; it can provide enough heat to sustain itself until exhaustion of the fuel).

      Think of it like this. When you start a fire you provide some energy up front and then the fire burns through its fuel without needing any more energy input. It provides its own heat in a positive feedback loop, keeping the reaction going.

      LENR appears to do basically the same thing with heat being the primary driver of the reaction. So you provide some input energy up front and then just let it run on the heat from itself. The difference being that if LENR is not controlled appropriately it will temporarily get too hot or cold and squelch the reaction.

      So these higher and higher COPs are simply a reflection of Rossi’s team learning how better to control the reaction near its critical points to prevent squelching with the minimum amount of energy necessary.

      Cavemen discovered chemical fire. Looks like we’ve discovered nuclear fire — the characteristics are quite similar. Can quantum fire be far behind?

      • Mats002

        I don’t think so. It took caveman eons to understand the chemistry behind their (our) old fire. Understanding the core reason behind the new fire might take another set of eons. That did not stop them from using it, neither will it stop us.

      • BroKeeper

        LENR only a transitional step to Zero Point Modules (ZPMs)? Interesting from the standpoint on what we have learned in a relatively short time, the atom’s nuclear intricacies, from LENR research alone. But screams the dangers of infinite power verses infinite energy. Let wisdom and character catch-up first.

        • Omega Z

          VisionandWisdom

          Yes, The Hot-cat “IS” what people are trying to replicate.
          It does get a little confusing at times. Also discussed here is the Lt 1Mw pilot plant in operation. I’m not much aware of any here trying to replicate the Lt E-cat.

    • bachcole

      Although rumours are sort so sketchy, in this case, “superior” to this rumour is very encouraging.

    • Omega Z

      COP will always vary. The number that will matter is the Average COP over a given period of time. With the Pilot Plant, that will be the average COP over 1 year probably with a disclaimer variable of plus/minus 10% or what ever deemed appropriate. It will also require the incorporation of the control panel energy use. This considered I think COP=30 being the most optimal.

  • Axil Axil

    The Hot cat high temperature will produce electricity with 90% effecency. It will also produce high quality process heat for inductry. Very hot is very good.

    • mcloki

      Axil will they be able to build drop in replacement boilers for Coal and Gas electricity power generation plants?

      • Axil Axil

        Such a product will save 90% of the value contained in a coal, gas, or nuclear plant. This will be one large scale reactor type that will be developed early on for LENR development companies.

      • Omega Z

        “will they be able to build drop in replacement boilers”
        Yes & they probably will initially. But power plants are design specific & the efficiency likely wont improve much.

        Ideally, you would want a power plant designed specifically for LENR technology which I would expect to follow. In that case, you could use Supercritical CO2 systems that may be able to exceed present efficiency twice over. Theoretically it could be higher then that, but in real world use probably not.

        By building new LENR plants, they could be smaller & close to use instead of highly centralized. This would reduce the size & scale of the present grid with additional cost savings.

        • mcloki

          I agree on building new. I was thinking more along the lines of existing plants being more quickly retrofitted. No Environmental impact studies, no land needs to be bought. Just a shutdown of the plant. retrofit the coal boiler section and restart. I can see a business wanting to get another 10 years out of a generator especially when all the existing power lines and infrastructure are already there.

  • Omega Z

    NO. After the current 1Mw pilot plant test, If all goes well, those will be available in the Industrial market & of various scale.

    Different E-cat systems WILL have to go through their own pilot tests.
    Rossi is still doing R&D on these other devices as the Lt. 1Mw plant is in pilot test. Just as when Apple introduced to market the I-phone 5, I-phone 6 was already under development & testing. But they still had to go through Beta versions before they came to market. Tho very similar, they are different and have to follow protocol. And that process will go on and on.

    Or have you not paid attention to what Rossi has said. R&D is perpetual.