The History of Things to Come (Axil Axil)

This comment was submitted by Axil Axil in this thread

It is true that the U.S. scientific community, government, patent office, U.S. based global oil and gas companies, and so on, have a very hostile attitude toward the goals and methods that Rossi has employed in the past and wants to employ in the future. His “too cheap to copy” strategy comes from the Chinese industrial method of market segment monopoly building. This method has been employed to make China the unchallenged manufacturer of solar cells and wind mills worldwide.

Industrial heat and Rossi are on the same page here. The purpose of both Cherokee LLC and Rossi is the cleanup of the pollution caused by fossil fuels. China is the top candidate for a clean out and restructuring of their energy sector. Industrial heat will partner with China in the manufacturing and sales effort of the E-Cat. China will build a city to manufacture the E-Cat. The head of the communist party can make things happen and overrule regulations. The U.S. on the other hand will get its attack dog, the NRC, to keep the E-Cat out of the U.S. and all the countries that the U.S. dominate. The resistance to LENR will not be easily reversed in the west. But during this time of adjustment to the reality of LENR, the E-Cat will dominate in China and over time China will become an unchallenged military, cultural, and commensa l world power.

The power for LENR to change the world is truly awesome. China will come to dominate in science and there will be a brain drain of the best and most open minded to China where a new era of science will flower. Chinese will become the global language and in the do course of time, China will colonize the outer solar system. The arrogant western science that had rejected Rossi will wither away and those who opposed Rossi will become unemployed as the great centers of learning move to the east. The relics of pompous certitude will eventually pass from the memory of science as a result of lingering spiritual and physical starvation. Stupidity is a cardinal intellectual sin and has a terrible price of retribution to be paid. The time of the judgement of civilizations is at hand. The U.S. and all those who advise her will pay a terrible price for their pride and arrogance.

Axil Axil

  • Nigel Appleton

    Over-dramatisation does not help the cause, Axil.
    Why have the “attack dog NRC’s” black helicopters not swooped on Rossi, Darden, IH, and all their doings and disappeared them?
    Why, indeed, did Rossi choose to work in the USA and not China?
    What makes you think you know what is or isn’t going on in labs all over the world that choose not to publicise their activities?
    And what the dickens is a “commensal” world power?

    • pg

      I agree with you.

  • Nigel Appleton

    Over-dramatisation does not help the cause, Axil.
    Why have the “attack dog NRC’s” black helicopters not swooped on Rossi, Darden, IH, and all their doings and disappeared them?
    Why, indeed, did Rossi choose to work in the USA and not China?
    What makes you think you know what is or isn’t going on in labs all over the world that choose not to publicise their activities?
    And what the dickens is a “commensal” world power?

    • pg

      I agree with you.

    • MWerner

      Commercial

  • Richard Hill

    Frank,
    Publication of this type of speculation is best left to others.
    I come to your site to keep up to date on the e-cat.
    Please keep it that way.

    • monti

      I share your opinion. Why does this deserve a posting? It was already part of the aftenposten newspaper thread…

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      I disagree.
      The technical details of the eCat do deserve an enriching philosophical speculation of its future consequences, most importantly by those who are most actively researching it and its effects.

  • WayneM

    @Axil,

    I think your main points are incorrect. There is no evidence for them.
    (I paraphrase your remarks)

    1. “Almost everyone has a very hostile attitude toward Rossi’s goals.”
    Almost everyone doesn’t care about Rossi; one way or the other. Don’t generalize the negative comments of a few journalists trying to score points with the larger world.
    2. “The purpose of both IH and Rossi is the cleanup of the pollution caused by fossil fuels.”
    No one but they know what their motives are. I suspect that, as a commercial enterprise, they seek fame and wealth. That is not an automatic bad thing.
    3. “The U.S. and all those who advise her will pay a terrible price for their pride and arrogance.”

    I think most people who agree with your first point above, wish for your third point. There seems to be a lot of ‘revenge’ thinking among us believers that I don’t share.

    • Warthog

      “No one but they know what their motives are.”

      Not so. Both parties mentioned have repeatedly stated their environmental motives. Now their business strategy motives ARE a mystery to all but them and their NDA-signed partners.

  • monti

    I have the feeling this is rather a rant than a real article…

  • Frank Acland

    My guess is that Darden and team are preparing to work with companies and organizations throughout the world, including the US and China if they have common goals and good reason to collaborate. Being located in the Triangle Park area may give Industrial Heat some natural partners in the high tech field.

    We’ve already heard a little about Italian company TSEM setting up a base in North Carolina to apparently work with IH, MIT and Texas Tech in some degree.

  • Roland

    Despite draconian penalties, vested in law by the same Supreme Council you believe able to impose its will on China, the ecology of China continues to deteriorate at an ever increasing rate.

    Despite draconian penalties corruption is endemic as it begins at the top with the Party itself.

    Their cheap, read subsidized, solar panels are junk.

    Their reading of Machiavelli is flawed and slightly desperate.

    To quote Marx, ‘their internal contradictions will destroy them’.

    Remember when the Japanese were going to own the planet; and then they weren’t.

    Then again, you may merely be displaying a jocular sarcasm that, probably, reads less funny than you intended.

    My money’s with the Northern Europeans, they’re already committed to species survival; and the Japanese for whom this will be an unparalleled boon.

    The E-cat early adopters can be expected to rapidly dominate their economic rivals; the foot draggers are going to lose spectacularly.

    Think, ‘I will never use a computer’ times ten…

    Still thinking about your other ideas tho.

  • Job001

    It’s just Research, Economics, Politics, and Engineering. Any conspiracy, if more than fantasy, will fade with favorable engineering and investment economics.
    In fact, once LENR is the favored game, wealth will jump on the “band wagon” like utilities have for wind and solar, now mostly 90% very large scale ownership, all the while protesting “Oh no, Oh no” until they dominate.

  • Warthog

    “No one but they know what their motives are.”

    Not so. Both parties mentioned have repeatedly stated their environmental motives. Now their business strategy motives ARE a mystery to all but them and their NDA-signed partners.

  • pg

    If nothing else, this post has allowed us to read really good comments.

    • Mats002

      Agree. I can understand the frustration of people that been around CF/LENR/RE for a long time, but let’s keep up the balanced view of what really is happening.

  • pg

    If nothing else, this post has allowed us to read really good comments.

    • Mats002

      Agree. I can understand the frustration of people that been around CF/LENR/RE for a long time, but let’s keep up the balanced view of what really is happening.

  • Alain Samoun

    I have always be surprised how the US can adapt to a new environment, economical and political. I think that can happen again for LENR/CF, even if in this case it has far more important consequences on the structure of the society. Beside China economical and political structures as well will have to adapt to it too.

    • mcloki

      Once the money is there. The US will really more capital into it. Also with new manufacturing techniques like 3D printing, It will make it easier to set up manufacturing in the US.

      • Alain Samoun

        Not only the money but also the will – See how Elon Musk is starting to put up side down the space industry,the auto industry and the solar energy industry. Not like the others billionaires who play casino at wall street.

  • Alain Samoun

    I have always be surprised how the US can adapt to a new environment, economical and political. I think that can happen again for LENR/CF, even if in this case it has far more important consequences on the structure of the society. Beside China economical and political structures as well will have to adapt to it too.

    • mcloki

      Once the money is there. The US will really move capital into it. Also with new manufacturing techniques like 3D printing, It will make it easier to set up manufacturing in the US. China will get dragged down with it’s own problems. You think unemployment is bad in the US. China could have over 30 million people unemployed. That’s a Canada of unemployed people, pissed off at the government. The Chinese will get bogged down in the day to day of democracy.

      • Alain Samoun

        Not only the money but also the will – See how Elon Musk is starting to put up side down the space industry,the auto industry and the solar energy industry. Not like the others billionaires who play casino at wall street.

  • Billy Jackson

    Axil while i respect your stance, I am afraid i have to fundamentally disagree with you.

    Your premises is that the scientific status quo of denial will stay the same as it is now. You couldn’t be further from the truth. Eventually LENR or a derivative of will prove itself valid through continued testing or a producible product that can be examined at leisure.. At this point its doors wide open.

    No country, not China, not the USA. nor any other country that trades economically on the world stage will be able to afford for LENR powered products to undercut them if they wish to remain viable. Since they cant ignore it.. they will be forced to adopt it.

    Militarily you would be a fool to think that the US military along with several of her allies would ignore the potential for long range extreme duration platforms that a LENR powered fuel cell would provide.. Irregardless of what is said in public or the stance taken by the public sector, the military will research and adapt to advances technology brings their way. I would dare go so far as to say they are probably further advanced than Rossi is if the rumor of SPAWAR buying the first plant has an ounce of truth to it.

    Last but not least lets not forget the spirit of entrepreneurial ventures that frankly Americans are very very good at. Don’t for a moment think that companies are not watching the developments of LENR both in public and behind the scenes. As soon as this technology becomes viable and available it will begin to get snapped up.. at first i full expect resistance from entrenched utilities and companies that this technology will hurt.. but it wont save them in the long run.. they will adapt or die..

    Should the worst come to happen.. and a law gets passed that regulates the hell out of e-cat to the point of uselessness.. well.. the great thing about US laws.. is they stop at the borders. No i dare say that anyone with the spirit to explore the uses of LENR regardless of national origin will have the opportunity to do so.

    Much like the radio, tv, or telephone… i expect we will see LENR products everywhere we look not to far off in our future.. and just like the movie said in Armageddon.. American parts, Chinese parts, Russian parts.. all made in Taiwan! 🙂

  • Billy Jackson

    hmmm my post vanished? did i break a rule?

    • HS61AF91

      I read it, and it was on hold as in ‘awaiting moderation’ but viewable. The idea that military necessity will prove the means of LENR success is for me less likely than the ability of any and all people to generate energy for their own purposes. Regulations will not matter when there remains no more enforcers, because they will all be engaged in their own pursuits, using free energy.

      • Billy Jackson

        i dont mean it so much as necessity.. but that they will take advantage of it if there is something there for them to work with… all of this is based on the premises that the e-cat works.. i just don’t see the military allowing politics to interfere when their greatest weakness is their energy needs

        • Omega Z

          I agree, They will be all over it. Energy is a staple for them. A necessity without which everything grinds to a halt. Presently it costs them 20 Billion$ plus a year & if not for the high cost, they would use far more of it.

          They have a ton of technology developed not deployed because the energy needs can’t be met. Rail guns, lasers, & even shields that could all be mobile if they had a compact energy source. 100Kw E-cat with a JTEC solid-state energy converter would take up the space of a dishwasher.

          Such a device would eliminate Billion$ in hardware. No tractor trailer gensets 1000’s of tanker trucks, smaller aircraft, Ships. Etc…

      • Omega Z

        Mytakeis
        I think your going to be greatly disappointed. LENR will be of great benefit to society over time. But it isn’t a magic box. It is just a heat generator. It will reduce your energy bill, but it will still have a cost & will still require millions of people to build it into usable products.

        Energy is only about 10% of societies costs. Everything else will be the same. Buildings will still need built, Food will still need produced, Products will still be needed.

        • HS61AF91

          Tks Omega, even with that I will be happy, a start can snowball or fizzle out, I like the snowball scenario.

  • Axil Axil

    Why does Apple mamufacture the IPhone in China using robots? Apple makes more money to offshore manufacturing to China because US companies want it that way. American compaies pay Congress to pass laws making capitial movment and off shore investment in China the most profitable way to do business.

    America does not manufacture anything anymore. What makes the E-Cat something different?

    • Billy Jackson

      careful of stereo types… that thing that “everyone knows” aint aways so….

      http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-10-23/chinas-rising-wages-and-the-made-in-the-usa-revival

      American manufacturing’s increased competitiveness against China is a story that’s been told for a few years now,
      giving rise to the term “reshoring.” But it’s not just China that the
      U.S. is gaining against. For companies making goods for sale in the
      U.S., Mexico has long been the place to go—and that’s slipping, too. The
      BCG survey shows that the U.S. has passed Mexico as the place where
      companies are most likely to build a new plant to make things to sell in
      the U.S.

      Within five years, U.S. executives also expect that nearly half
      their global manufacturing capacity will be located in the U.S., a big
      change from just a few years ago. While it’s a small sample size—252
      senior execs at companies with at least $1 billion of sales—it’s telling
      of the change that’s under way.

      • Axil Axil

        LENR powered ships will take the shipping costs out of the cost calculations. Ships will be the first to be retrofitted with LENR power. The cost of train transport will also fall. Transport costs of product will be minimal. What matters in the new LENR age is the desires of the oligarchs, their profit motives and the will to do business.

        • Billy Jackson

          and the potential of 3d printing will render shipping obsolete except for a few products which require complicated assembly.

          • Axil Axil

            Most perple and the most customers exist in China and India, The E-Cat martet is in the east. America is a commersial backwater. But China will sell to the west at a markup.

          • Omega Z

            Axil
            It will take everything China has to build E-cat products just for itself. Like many here at ECW, you grossly underestimate the task at hand.

            There is a reason German Chancellor Angela Merkel set the year 2100 as the end of fossil fuels. And it wasn’t because of kicking the can down the road as some have suggested. It is just a reasonable estimate that it will take that long to build out so-called green energies.

            Replacing existing technology with E-cat/LENR will likely take until 2075 considering LENR systems will have a longer life-cycle then Solar/Wind systems. Of course, if you want to have home generators, it will likely take much longer. Total output capacity would need to be much greater then presently exists.

    • Omega Z

      Apple doesn’t manufacture I-Phones beyond prototypes. They farm it out. They did move the Mac production back to the states. It’s cheaper. It’s a more automated production. I-Phones in China are about 90% manual labor. It doesn’t have to be. The defining difference is taxes. Not labor.

      Every product you buy includes the cost of Corporate taxes(Actually, All Taxes). China has a 25% Tax. The U.S. has 35% Tax. I can make the same product in China/U.S. for the same price, but the 1 made in the U.S. will cost more.

      Lee Iacocca explained this on national TV years ago. Corporations do not pay Tax. They Collect it as an agent of the Government through all their products & services..

      PS, The U.S. is still the #1 manufacturer in the world. We just do it with many fewer people. China is #2

  • Axil Axil

    Billy Jackson: No i dare say that anyone with the spirit to explore the uses of LENR regardless of national origin will have the opportunity to do so.

    Rossi with the support of China will use massive mass prodution and dumping to kill off all competition as has been done in the solar cell market. If America is not able to win making and selling solar cells, how can America win in the upcoming E-Cat wars?

    • Billy Jackson

      while rossi may get credit for inventing the technology.. that does not mean he will create the best version or most efficient version.. they can make plans all day long in the end consumers will make the choice based on their criteria not Rossi’s (i fully expect he will in time have competition or just have to compete against better engineers who get more out their devices…)

      (sorry for the edit.. for some reason i cant see my original post you responded too)

    • Omega Z

      Axil
      Your still hung up on the cheap labor myth thingy.
      You should ask yourself why Elon Musk is building his Mega-Plant in the U.S. instead of China. I believe it’s the 30% cheaper cost.

      Moving jobs to China for cheap labor was always a weak argument. The U.S. having the worlds highest Corporate Tax rate has always been the primary motivation. Note Obama has signaled Congress that if they pass a bill lowering it to 25%, he would sign it.

      Most Corporations have indicated to Obama that it would take time to relocate & build new plants, but they would move back to the U.S. if the tax rate was reduced to 25%. Automated production costs about the same, No matter where your located.

      Another thing Corporate would like Government to do- Focus less on 4 year college degrees where some major in zombies & Kardashian mania and Reintroduce trade schools. Apparently skilled trades are more important to them then a zombie attack & bimbo’s.

  • GreenWin

    Fact police report the world’s largest manufacturer of wind turbines in Vestas – a Danish company. Number two is China’s Goldwind, followed by Germany’s Enercon and Siemens. India’s Sulzon Group and U.S. General Electric are 5th and 6th in the wind turbine market. BTW, Canada’s Canadian Solar is ranked number 3 biggest manufacturer of solar panels worldwide.

    • Andy Kumar
      • GreenWin

        Typical hANDY climate hoax. Like Algore in front of a giant screen reading: “We All Gonna Die!”

      • Omega Z

        “Using his theoretical model”
        There’s the problem. By simply changing any of a number of unknown variable, they can predict anything.

        I predicted rain 1 day & was right. In the name of full disclosure, I should point out that it had started 5 minutes before.

  • Kim

    Energy is the the control point.

    Elites (Media) are not willing to let go of the control at this time.

    Period.

    When or if they do, ALL free energy devices ever conceived of will be released.

    The E-cat will just be one many options among many.

    The real issue is when?

    Respect
    Kim

  • Kim

    Energy is the the control point.

    Elites (Media) are not willing to let go of the control at this time.

    Period.

    When or if they do, ALL free energy devices ever conceived of will be released.

    The E-cat will just be one many options among many.

    The real issue is when?

    Respect
    Kim

  • twobob

    Hmmm My post did not get shown.
    Did some one not like It.
    They are not wind MILLS.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Righ on Axil, but just maybe,we will awaken the National Labs again to save us. There is an amazing talent there that can respond quickly & thoroughly. as In the past. I have known & worked with some of these personnel that need only a positive directive from Smart Government(?) to spring into action once again as they did at the beginning of the Nuclear Age.

    There lie true Patriots & will heed the call, if it goes out in time?

    http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Low_energy_nuclear_reactions

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/speed-development-clean-really-too-cheap-meter-low-energy-nuclear-reaction-lenr-power-generation

  • William D. Fleming

    My opinion is that eventually various versions of the Ecat will be developed and manufactured in different places around the world. Regardless of where they are made, all the world will benefit.

  • William D. Fleming

    My opinion is that eventually various versions of the Ecat will be developed and manufactured in different places around the world. Regardless of where they are made, all the world will benefit.

  • Mytakeis

    I wrote the following in a comment at http://popularliberty.com/ and believe it relates here as well. I endorse your thoughts, but I think the future is more in flux than you may have perceived: Not all doom and gloom Let’s not panic on the side of coming chaos. Better things, also paradigm shattering appear on the near horizon. When the announcement and proof of near free energy, collectable, usable, and available to all people becomes acknowledged, an upheaval will take place. The monetary system we know will be turned upon its head. The interest generating based debt currency system dissolves. Corporate interests seeking to reinstate their dominance cause major battles with newly independent people generating what they need on their own. I think that the catastrophe-oriented picture clears to a freedom-oriented future, and Alex [Jones] has delved so deeply into the negative, that any other outcome remains hidden. So cheer up and follow e-catworld.

  • HS61AF91

    I wrote the following in a comment at http://popularliberty.com/ and believe it relates here as well. I endorse your thoughts, but I think the future is more in flux than you may have perceived:

    “Not all doom and gloom Let’s not panic on the side of coming chaos. Better things, also paradigm shattering appear on the near horizon. When the announcement and proof of near free energy, collectable, usable, and available to all people becomes acknowledged, an upheaval will take place. The monetary system we know will be turned upon its head. The interest generating based debt currency system dissolves. Corporate interests seeking to reinstate their dominance cause major battles with newly independent people generating what they need on their own. I think that the catastrophe-oriented picture clears to a freedom-oriented future, and Alex [Jones] has delved so deeply into the negative, that any other outcome remains hidden. So cheer up and follow e-catworld.”

  • GreenWin

    Typical hANDY climate hoax. Like Algore in front of a giant screen reading: “We All Gonna Die!”

    • Omega Z

      MB
      I think we are only aware of the China connection because someone under estimated the awareness of Rossi’s work & the reach of the Internet.
      Anyway, In an interview when China was brought up, Tom Darden indicated the China meeting was just 1 of several Groups that discussions have been held with.

      Be aware, The China connection was *NOT* China per se, but an American concern that is operated by some Chinese Americans who have business interests in China. If I recall, this comes from Darden himself. This is a big Distinction. Such arrangements are common with 1st/2nd generation transplants to the U.S.. No different from you or I dealing with connections familiar to us.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Well at least it is under the nose of the Chinese. I think that is a good thing.

        • Omega Z

          There are a lot of people aware of Rossi’s E-cats.
          It just isn’t time to come forward. Perhaps a few months after the pilot plant test is concluded. If there isn’t issues to still work out.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      The question is if the global economy will continue or break up into blocks. LENR reduces shipping costs which supports globalisation. On the other hand LENR reduces the importance of energy trade which works against globalisation. Regarding other raw materials, the question is more difficult to answer. Take for example steel. LENR causes a building boom which increases the consumption of steel and other metals. On the other hand, in a little bit longer run LENR makes it possible to replace steel by aluminium, titanium, silicon, carbon and other raw materials which are abundant everywhere, but energetically expensive to extract.

      There are two economic motivations to globalisation: 1) access to raw materials, 2) amortising development costs by maximising volume. Presently 1 is more important than 2.

      I do not know if a global economy is a good thing or not. It’s good if it eliminates fatal wars. It’s not good if it removes diversity, since a monoculture is not robust against perturbations. At the moment is seems that the blocks are making a political comeback. The risk in a blocked world is territorial wars.

      • Omega Z

        There has been an intent to create Interdependence in the world since WWII lead by the U.S. Policy wonks tho it also has an International flavor. Think Bilderberg Group. You don’t really think they get together to chat about whether Pluto should be classified a planet or not do you.

        With Nations being Interdependent, they can’t afford to go to war over any little thing. Thus avoiding something that could lead to WWIII. Or so, It is hoped.

        The impact of LENR reducing the importance of energy will promote Interdependence. Third world countries will advance with growing economies. More trade, growing tourism & economies dependent on it.

        South Korea even tho an advanced society, the mers outbreak has had an economic impact. They depend on it.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      You are very right: LENR can be a wonderful opportunity, but like all tools (e.g. the internet), it depends on how it shall be used.
      What counts is the mind behind its use, and “mens sana in corpore sano” (a healthy mind in a healthy body) – as much as possible.
      In our behavior, we, the humans, tend to forget history and to be sluggish in changing well established habits and comforting vices.

    • Omega Z

      “150 billion animals” A few to many ZERO’s me thinks.
      The major drive of deforestation today is for human consumption, not animals. Banana plantations in the past. Today is palm oil production.

      We don’t grow vegetables to feed livestock. We grow grain which a portion goes directly for human consumption. The U.S. could raise a lot of livestock just with the grains that don’t pass muster for human consumption. It would be dumped. It’s the nature of the business. note that 50% of fruits & vegetables are wasted for similar reasons.

      Plants have nervous systems. They suffer a sort of pain when injured. Hooked up to electronics, the frequencies they generate sound like a scream. They bleed, They suffer stress. Their even corralled in a bunch & slaughtered in mass. They both are living organisms. Your concern for animals is just a matter of perspective. For you to live, you need to eat something that was a living organism. Deal with it.

      18,000 liters of water per 1kg of meat. Come on. Where do they get these numbers. It’s propaganda. Even if you count the water per kg of grain, those numbers don’t hunt. Not even close. In the “U.S.” Beef livestock will gain about 1.2 to 1.5kg weight per day & will take in on average 25 liters of water per day averaged in it’s 6 to 8 month life span. Calf in the spring & steak on your plate in late fall. Livestock like people obtain a lot of their water intake from the food.

      Perhaps they double count to make their point with silly numbers. I doubt most people realize that in the U.S., Beef are still fed huge amounts of hay. Just a type of grass. Speaking of which, oats, wheat & corn. are just domesticated breads of grass. According to their numbers, it requires 16,000 liters of water per 1kg of almonds & cashews. I don’t believe that either.

      I can send 1 truckload of meat or 15 truckloads of tomatoes but the total calories delivered will be about equal. Transport energy needs accounting. Point being if you want to compare, the only right way is by energy in verses calorie out. You’ll find little difference between food groups in this manner. Everything else is agenda driven.

      If you choose to be vegan, It matters not to me. I choose to be an omnivore. Afford me the same courtesy. For the record, no good farmer would intentionally cause harm to his farm animals. If for no other reason then the margins are so slim a single loss can break the farm.

      Just know that if they develop a lab factory to grow meat that’s acceptable, domesticated animals have no place in the world. They will cease to exist. Added to the extinct list.

  • MontagueWithnail

    Just read this quote on another article: “the expected never happens; it is the unexpected always” John Maynard Keynes.

    Applies here, and the only prediction I would be willing to make is that this thing will play out in a way that none of us expects todays.

  • Montague Withnail

    Just read this quote on another article: “the expected never happens; it is the unexpected always” John Maynard Keynes.

    Applies here, and the only prediction I would be willing to make is that this thing will play out in a way that none of us expects today.

  • Omega Z

    “Using his theoretical model”
    There’s the problem. By simply changing any of a number of unknown variable, they can predict anything.

    I predicted rain 1 day & was right. In the name of full disclosure, I should point out that it had started 5 minutes before.

  • Omega Z

    I think many here make posts on ungrounded assumptions like the U.S. is not paying attention to this. Why? Because the U.S. Government or some major entity isn’t yelling about it from the towers. I would have to say your probably Very Wrong in your assumptions.

    There are several U.S. Entities besides Industries whose job it is to watch out for such technologies. We have seen evidence of many who are aware. They are just waiting. It isn’t time yet for them to go public. It hasn’t progressed enough for that. But you can be sure they are watching. If you don’t know that, YOU haven’t been paying close enough attention.

    NASA, NRL, DARPA, Bill Gates, Elon Musk on & on & on—

    • psi2u2

      I think we may hear from the US federal government on this point in the not-too-distant future.

      • Omega Z

        Possibly spring 2016. If Rossi’s pilot plant passes muster, word will leak out. It may become unavoidable at that point. But I think they will play it down initially as just a supper efficient form of producing heat.

        Be like your car still requires a battery to start & still uses fuel but gets unbelievable mileage.

  • Omega Z

    I think many here make posts on ungrounded assumptions like the U.S. is not paying attention to this. Why? Because the U.S. Government or some major entity isn’t yelling about it from the towers. I would have to say your probably Very Wrong in your assumptions.

    There are several U.S. Entities besides Industries whose job it is to watch out for such technologies. We have seen evidence of many who are aware. They are just waiting. It isn’t time yet for them to go public. It hasn’t progressed enough for that. But you can be sure they are watching. If you don’t know that, YOU haven’t been paying close enough attention.

    NASA, NRL, DARPA, Bill Gates, Elon Musk on & on & on—

    • psi2u2

      I think we may hear from the US federal government on this point in the not-too-distant future.

      • Omega Z

        Possibly spring 2016. If Rossi’s pilot plant passes muster, word will leak out. It may become unavoidable at that point. But I think they will play it down initially as just a supper efficient form of producing heat.

        Be like your car still requires a battery to start & still uses fuel but gets unbelievable mileage.

  • charlie tapp

    I think the US patent office and the government both don’t pay any attention to lenr because as of right now it is pretty much perpetual motion . And just like perpetual motion no one has shown a working model that other third party’s can evaluate fully. There is not one I am starting to think I am following this to much. When Rossi calls up quantum heat to show them everything even if they have to sign something that they cannot replicate him or tell how it works, then I will really believe it. Because I trust them. I am starting to think that Parkhomov and Luguano testers did some wrong math because mfmp would have made it work by now. So I challenge Mr. Rossi to call up Robert Greenyer invite him to the container and show it off !!!! And I really don’t think China will be ahead of us no one in that country has money except the Chinese government so yes they will be makeing them but I will be buying them. (They will still be on the grid I won’t) and with that much extra American money flying around how could they possibly leave us anywhere except for in line to buy the new time machine they invented because we couldn’t? Maybee someone bought that already and went back to suppress lenr in the u.s.. plus it does not matter if we buy everything from China that just means all the good rare metals like gold platinum Palladium silver nickel copper and so on end up here . Same with oil buy everyone else’s first save ours for later you know how much fuel a tank uses? So in the end we have all the oil, all the rare metals, extra land because of state parks(aka future military bases) all the money because we will just make more and call it inflation. And unlimited happiness it’s a win win if you ask me. Hurry up China.

    • Warthog

      “And just like perpetual motion no one has shown a working model that other third party’s can evaluate fully”

      Simply not true. Several researchers have demonstrated working models, but those are small devices of low output not on the scale of the E-cat. The real problem is science politics…the “powers that be” have declared LENR to be “anathema” and outside the pale of legitimate science. .

    • Omega Z

      Charlie.
      Enough Government research has been done by the Alphabet agencies among many Governments that they know it is a real phenomenon. That is not questioned. Even Al Gore is aware.
      Consider they also know for a fact that Meat can be grown in a lab. There was even a sample tasting event.

      This is a huge accomplishment with all kinds of implications. Yet no Government is parading around shouting about it. WHY? Because it hasn’t been proven yet that it can be scaled up for any beneficial use. It is a Lab novelty. When a meat growing plant is operational at economical value, they will talk about it.

      If you scour the Internet, you will find 100’s of developments that are amazing. Things taking place like growing or printing human organs. But still just Lab novelties. Governments are not shouting about it.

      If Rossi’s pilot plant proves positive(Has Economical Benefit), Then they will talk about it. But Not before.

  • charlie tapp

    I think the US patent office and the government both don’t pay any attention to lenr because as of right now it is pretty much perpetual motion . And just like perpetual motion no one has shown a working model that other third party’s can evaluate fully. There is not one I am starting to think I am following this to much. When Rossi calls up quantum heat to show them everything even if they have to sign something that they cannot replicate him or tell how it works, then I will really believe it. Because I trust them. I am starting to think that Parkhomov and Luguano testers did some wrong math because mfmp would have made it work by now. So I challenge Mr. Rossi to call up Robert Greenyer invite him to the container and show it off !!!! And I really don’t think China will be ahead of us no one in that country has money except the Chinese government so yes they will be makeing them but I will be buying them. (They will still be on the grid I won’t) and with that much extra American money flying around how could they possibly leave us anywhere except for in line to buy the new time machine they invented because we couldn’t? Maybee someone bought that already and went back to suppress lenr in the u.s.. plus it does not matter if we buy everything from China that just means all the good rare metals like gold platinum Palladium silver nickel copper and so on end up here . Same with oil buy everyone else’s first save ours for later you know how much fuel a tank uses? So in the end we have all the oil, all the rare metals, extra land because of state parks(aka future military bases) all the money because we will just make more and call it inflation. And unlimited happiness it’s a win win if you ask me. Hurry up China.

    • Warthog

      “And just like perpetual motion no one has shown a working model that other third party’s can evaluate fully”

      Simply not true. Several researchers have demonstrated working models, but those are small devices of low output not on the scale of the E-cat. The real problem is science politics…the “powers that be” have declared LENR to be “anathema” and outside the pale of legitimate science. .

    • Omega Z

      Charlie.
      Enough Government research has been done by the Alphabet agencies among many Governments that they know it is a real phenomenon. That is not questioned. Even Al Gore is aware.
      Consider they also know for a fact that Meat can be grown in a lab. There was even a sample tasting event.

      This is a huge accomplishment with all kinds of implications. Yet no Government is parading around shouting about it. WHY? Because it hasn’t been proven yet that it can be scaled up for any beneficial use. It is a Lab novelty. When a meat growing plant is operational at economical value, they will talk about it.

      If you scour the Internet, you will find 100’s of developments that are amazing. Things taking place like growing or printing human organs. But still just Lab novelties. Governments are not shouting about it.

      If Rossi’s pilot plant proves positive(Has Economical Benefit), Then they will talk about it. But Not before.

  • US .gov entities absolutely know and care. Their situation is complex though for geopolitical reasons, so their strategy at the moment is insertion of doubt and delay, although not deny. Since .gov entities more or less equals the Banks (FED GS JPM etc) the best way to analyze is to look at the money. There are some clues that I try to put in perspective in my report here: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/blackswanascending.pdf

    • Omega Z

      Sifferkoll®

      Big Oil thinks decades in advance. Everything in the next 10/20 years for them is pretty much set in stone. Oil field leases for production 15/20 or more years out are not, tho leases from Government auctions have already been concluded.

      Based on this fact, without a blackswan, you can assume they paid premium prices for these leases. Note that Government times these leases for maximum value. Everyone knows without a blackswan, that this oil would market for at least $150 a barrel if not much more. Thus, they are willing to pay much more to assure they have a supply in he future.(Note some have speculated on 200/300 dollar oil in the future)

      Blackswan. Big Oil becomes aware. It’s easy to conclude they’ve paid way to much for these future lease agreements. Likely the Oil will sell substantially cheaper then they paid for it. You can also bet that Big banks are also aware.

      This is where the shuffle begins. These leases will be short sold among & with certain entities taking tax write downs & will change hands several times. This is just damage control. Once the Blackswan comes to market, this process will continue minimizing losses.

      A little shuffling may be coincidence. I think we’ve witnessed enough to say it isn’t. But, ultimately, these leases will end up back in the hands of the Oilco’s. It will be needed for a long time yet. Just at a reduced value/price. The real loss will be in expected future returns, but not an actual loss. Investors will still get a return(Tho less then originally expected) on overall investment. Investors will adapt/adjust their investments.

  • US .gov entities absolutely know and care. Their situation is complex though for geopolitical reasons, so their strategy at the moment is insertion of doubt and delay, although not deny. Since .gov entities more or less equals the Banks (FED GS JPM etc) the best way to analyze is to look at the money. There are some clues that I try to put in perspective in my report here: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/blackswanascending.pdf

    • Omega Z

      Sifferkoll®

      Big Oil thinks decades in advance. Everything in the next 10/20 years for them is pretty much set in stone. Oil field leases for production 15/20 or more years out are not, tho leases from Government auctions have already been concluded.

      Based on this fact, without a blackswan, you can assume they paid premium prices for these leases. Note that Government times these leases for maximum value. Everyone knows without a blackswan, that this oil would market for at least $150 a barrel if not much more. Thus, they are willing to pay much more to assure they have a supply in he future.(Note some have speculated on 200/300 dollar oil in the future)

      Blackswan. Big Oil becomes aware. It’s easy to conclude they’ve paid way to much for these future lease agreements. Likely the Oil will sell substantially cheaper then they paid for it. You can also bet that Big banks are also aware.

      This is where the shuffle begins. These leases will be short sold among & with certain entities taking tax write downs & will change hands several times. This is just damage control. Once the Blackswan comes to market, this process will continue minimizing losses.

      A little shuffling may be coincidence. I think we’ve witnessed enough to say it isn’t. But, ultimately, these leases will end up back in the hands of the Oilco’s. It will be needed for a long time yet. Just at a reduced value/price. The real loss will be in expected future returns, but not an actual loss. Investors will still get a return(Tho less then originally expected) on overall investment. Investors will adapt/adjust their investments.

  • MasterBlaster7

    Well…

    1. I don’t think the NRC would be used as an “attack dog” on LENR. It might. But, far more likely that patents will be granted after a successful commercial plant, and retro-patents from Brillouin, Jet energy et, all. will tie up LENR for a while.

    2. “during this time of adjustment to the reality of LENR, the E-Cat will
    dominate in China and over time China will become an unchallenged
    military, cultural, and commensa l world power.”….uh…no. China was a brilliant move by Rossi and IH. I am kinda surprised that the US didn’t block it in some way. China is where LENR is needed most (2nd the US) for clean energy/environmental purposes. Could the US have exercised that much wisdom and foresight?…doubt it…probably just let it slip by, not really knowing what was going on. Kinda like Microsoft and Apple getting all that good stuff from Xerox in the early days.
    The thing you are missing here is the 180 the US will do if China is successful with LENR. Lets say that after a successful Rossi plant China creates 5 LENR power plants in a year. I guarantee that all of a sudden the USPTO will square away the patent problems and LENR research and development with start “full steam” in the US. Hell, it might even take on an arms race fervor. Despite all the shortcomings of the US government, It will not sit idle while China develops a true “free energy device”. We may be stupid…but we are not THAT stupid haha.

    • mike

      Well that is if Rossi’s ecat isn’t blown away by Mills’ suncell.

    • Omega Z

      MB
      I think we are only aware of the China connection because someone under estimated the awareness of Rossi’s work & the reach of the Internet.
      Anyway, In an interview when China was brought up, Tom Darden indicated the China meeting was just 1 of several Groups that discussions have been held with.

      Be aware, The China connection was *NOT* China per se, but an American concern that is operated by some Chinese Americans who have business interests in China. If I recall, this comes from Darden himself. This is a big Distinction. Such arrangements are common with 1st/2nd generation transplants to the U.S.. No different from you or I dealing with connections familiar to us.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Well at least it is under the nose of the Chinese. I think that is a good thing.

        • Omega Z

          There are a lot of people aware of Rossi’s E-cats.
          It just isn’t time to come forward. Perhaps a few months after the pilot plant test is concluded. If there isn’t issues to still work out.

  • Nelson Vogel

    At China right now they are eating 40.000 dogs in one Festival !, so it’s very scary having them leading the world using LERN as unlimited energy source. Veganism can make more impact in the world environment than LENR. Nothing will ever justify more than 150 billion animals slaughtered every year, plus thousands of square kilometers of forest devastation to produce vegetables for feed these animals, before kill them with torture and cruelty extremes. For each 1 Kg of meat it’s necessary supply about 18.000 liters of water and 5 kg of cereal. Cut meat from the meals is also the best energy saving anyone can do for the planet !!! Mother nature will thanks and may save humans species from extinction. Clean energy is welcome if used with policies stopping killing of innocent animals, forests protection and reduction of population growth, otherwise will represent more damage potential than fossil fuel. Visit::
    http://www.adaptt.org
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/world/asia/dog-eaters-in-yulin-china-unbowed-by-global-derision.html

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      You are very right: LENR can be a wonderful opportunity, but like all tools (e.g. the internet), it depends on how it shall be used.
      What counts is the mind behind its use, and “mens sana in corpore sano” (a healthy mind in a healthy body) – as much as possible.
      In our behavior, we, the humans, tend to forget history and to be sluggish in changing well established habits and comforting vices.

      • Nelson Vogel

        Agree, but with what men did with new technologies the last 100 years,
        would like to expect LENR, cheap and clean energy source, arriving together with a spiritual evolution of humans. Every time we buy any good or food we have an
        easy chance to build a better world, just making one question: Does this good or
        food produced through animal slavery, animal torture, and animal murder ? Humans and animals deserve equally absolute protection, and have an inherent right to be free and live, not just the former one. LENR used for heating slaughtering industries, weapons of mass destruction, whale fishing ships engines, etc…, is not welcome. Let’s us be optimistics and work for this not happen ! Namaste.

        • Omega Z

          At least we kill our food before we eat it. Many species in nature prefer their prey still kicking.

          Just know that if they develop a lab factory to grow meat that’s acceptable, domesticated animals have no place in the world. They will cease to exist. Added to the extinct list.

        • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

          Namaste.
          We can change flawed thinking through collective reasoning; individual reasoning often is flawed, when not confronted.
          We eat hormones (heavy meat eating children as young as seven begin to develop into adults, besides becoming obese and diabetic because of fizzy drinks), antibiotics (low dosage given to animals to speed growth and keep them alive in their horrifying living conditions cause increased viral resistance and threat), pesticides, we breathe and drink chemicals of refinement and colouring.
          Until these points are openly discussed and published, we live a comfortable individual ignorance. To few, a profitable one.
          It is the psychology of the human being, the behaviour, which makes a difference in the use of technology and science.
          The use of LENR can be positive or negative; the way in which it shall be used shall depend on human behaviour, on psychological choices.
          Open source is a form of collective discovery, one of collective control and continuous, free improvement.

    • Omega Z

      “150 billion animals” A few to many ZERO’s me thinks.
      The major drive of deforestation today is for human consumption, not animals. Banana plantations in the past. Today is palm oil production.

      We don’t grow vegetables to feed livestock. We grow grain which a portion goes directly for human consumption. The U.S. could raise a lot of livestock just with the grains that don’t pass muster for human consumption. It would be dumped. It’s the nature of the business. note that 50% of fruits & vegetables are wasted for similar reasons.

      Plants have nervous systems. They suffer a sort of pain when injured. Hooked up to electronics, the frequencies they generate sound like a scream. They bleed, They suffer stress. Their even corralled in a bunch & slaughtered in mass. They both are living organisms. Your concern for animals is just a matter of perspective. For you to live, you need to eat something that was a living organism. Deal with it.

      18,000 liters of water per 1kg of meat. Come on. Where do they get these numbers. It’s propaganda. Even if you count the water per kg of grain, those numbers don’t hunt. Not even close. In the “U.S.” Beef livestock will gain about 1.2 to 1.5kg weight per day & will take in on average 25 liters of water per day averaged in it’s 6 to 8 month life span. Calf in the spring & steak on your plate in late fall. Livestock like people obtain a lot of their water intake from the food.

      Perhaps they double count to make their point with silly numbers. I doubt most people realize that in the U.S., Beef are still fed huge amounts of hay. Just a type of grass. Speaking of which, oats, wheat & corn. are just domesticated breads of grass. According to their numbers, it requires 16,000 liters of water per 1kg of almonds & cashews. I don’t believe that either.

      I can send 1 truckload of meat or 15 truckloads of tomatoes but the total calories delivered will be about equal. Transport energy needs accounting. Point being if you want to compare, the only right way is by energy in verses calorie out. You’ll find little difference between food groups in this manner. Everything else is agenda driven.

      If you choose to be vegan, It matters not to me. I choose to be an omnivore. Afford me the same courtesy. For the record, no good farmer would intentionally cause harm to his farm animals. If for no other reason then the margins are so slim a single loss can break the farm.

      Just know that if they develop a lab factory to grow meat that’s acceptable, domesticated animals have no place in the world. They will cease to exist. Added to the extinct list.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    The question is if the global economy will continue or break up into blocks. LENR reduces shipping costs which supports globalisation. On the other hand LENR reduces the importance of energy trade which works against globalisation. Regarding other raw materials, the question is more difficult to answer. Take for example steel. LENR causes a building boom which increases the consumption of steel and other metals. On the other hand, in a little bit longer run LENR makes it possible to replace steel by aluminium, titanium, silicon, carbon and other raw materials which are abundant everywhere, but energetically expensive to extract.

    There are two economic motivations to globalisation: 1) access to raw materials, 2) amortising development costs by maximising volume. Presently 1 is more important than 2.

    I do not know if a global economy is a good thing or not. It’s good if it eliminates fatal wars. It’s not good if it removes diversity, since a monoculture is not robust against perturbations. At the moment is seems that the blocks are making a political comeback. The risk in a blocked world is territorial wars.

    • Omega Z

      There has been an intent to create Interdependence in the world since WWII lead by the U.S. Policy wonks tho it also has an International flavor. Think Bilderberg Group. You don’t really think they get together to chat about whether Pluto should be classified a planet or not do you.

      With Nations being Interdependent, they can’t afford to go to war over any little thing. Thus avoiding something that could lead to WWIII. Or so, It is hoped.

      The impact of LENR reducing the importance of energy will promote Interdependence. Third world countries will advance with growing economies. More trade, growing tourism & economies dependent on it.

      South Korea even tho an advanced society, the mers outbreak has had an economic impact. They depend on it.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Racist much. I’m surprised Frank would approve such blatant racism on EcatWorld.

    I disagree on the racist bits and on the articles content. Once proof of concept is beyond question then no sane politician would rally against it. Don’t count the United States and the rest of the world out just yet.

    One of the greatest setbacks of LENR is in the form of the evil Steven Krivit of Newenergytimes who is fighting tooth and nail against LENR to keep his livelihood.

    We know Rossi had a past that involved raking in over $30 million USD in a waste management business located in Italy.

    Apparently… apparently the mafia reaches as far as Italy.. Who knew? Apparently they like to dominate waste management… Who knew?

    Anyways; even though Rossi could have hid from his charges of fraud as the POTUS handed him an American Visa. Rossi returned to face his accusers and beat all of the charges of fraud except a small tax evasion bit. IF you were to search for Andrea Rossi however you will be regaled with tales of how he is a fraud, etc. I realize this does not portray him in an accurate light, but it has hurt the credibility of his discovery since it is the first things skeptics point at in hundreds of websites nowadays.

    I say Steven Krivit is evil because his mission to sabotage LENR has delayed its progress, and with a technology that can slow or possibly reverse global warming trends that is tantamount to mass murder..

    I must say Axil Axil, that your last paragraph is almost as racist as you can get under the wire. You claim that Chinese will become the global language, and that the Chinese will colonize space while the

    “The U.S. and all those who advise her will pay a terrible price for their pride and arrogance”

    Let me guess. You are Chinese? Tough guess dude.

    “The arrogant western science that had rejected Rossi will wither away”…

    Yes .. we get your point.. Just too bad these forward thinking Chinese cannot live in a free and democratic society.

    I am not impressed by The Chinese in any way. Look at this video of a two year old dying in a Chinese street while over a dozen Chinese People ignore it. This would not happen to a dog in the United States. A society that disregards human life to the point where that can happen is not worth saving.

    If you do watch this.. Count how many people walk right past this dying child. I counted 13+

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVYUzHc5L8

    Do not watch if you ever want to like China again, or want to avoid nightmares.

    This may seem normal to someone in China, but it would never happen to a dog in North America. Sadly the child died. My children are half Asian so I am not racist against Asians. I am mad at the culture that could breed such contempt towards human life as might be the same with any race living in a country that puts such a low standard of decency.

  • Omega Z

    At least we kill our food before we eat it. Many species in nature prefer their prey still kicking.

    Just know that if they develop a lab factory to grow meat that’s acceptable, domesticated animals have no place in the world. They will cease to exist. Added to the extinct list.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Namaste.
    We can change flawed thinking through collective reasoning; individual reasoning often is flawed, when not confronted.
    We eat hormones (heavy meat eating children as young as seven begin to develop into adults, besides becoming obese and diabetic because of fizzy drinks), antibiotics (low dosage given to animals to speed growth and keep them alive in their horrifying living conditions cause increased viral resistance and threat), pesticides, we breathe and drink chemicals of refinement and colouring.
    Until these points are openly discussed and published, we live a comfortable individual ignorance. To few, a profitable one.
    It is the psychology of the human being, the behaviour, which makes a difference in the use of technology and science.
    The use of LENR can be positive or negative; the way in which it shall be used shall depend on human behaviour, on psychological choices.
    Open source is a form of collective discovery, one of collective control and continuous, free improvement.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Yes the Giant sleeps, but she has had the best National Labs in the World & needs only a directive from Smart Government(?) to move quickly again. Will it come? Sign the petition if you can? In my past I have worked with the Great Labs & they posess brilliant minds & resourceful engineers, they just need an alarm & a directive to act, after all didn’t they build the Bomb & our present Nuclear Plants etc! They can do it again & do we really know they are not?

    http://kb.e-catworld.com/index.php?title=Low_energy_nuclear_reactions

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/speed-development-clean-really-too-cheap-meter-low-energy-nuclear-reaction-lenr-power-generation