E-Cat Customer Happy With Energy Bills: Rossi

According to Andrea Rossi, the E-Cat plant that is being tested at the site of Industrial Heat’s secret customer has been running for over four months now, providing heat for an industrial process. If this is the case, the customer should be getting an idea of how effective the plant is in cutting the cost of energy at the factory. Rossi today commented on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that “What really interests our Customer is that the E-Cat increases his profit.”

I followed up with a couple of questions, and Rossi has replied.

Frank Acland
July 11th, 2015 at 12:37 PM
Dear Andrea,

1. Does the Customer see the the effects already of the E-Cat plant in his monthly energy bills?

2. If yes, does he seem happy with what he sees so far?


Andrea Rossi
July 11th, 2015 at 12:58 PM
Feank Acland:
1- Yes
2- Yes
Warm Regards

In the final event, the whole goal of Andrea Rossi has been to provide a product that will save customers money on energy bills. E-Cats will be commercially successful only if they allow customers to save money. From what Rossi is saying here, it seems there has already been success in that regard.

  • BillH

    It all comes down to cost, and cost hasn’t been a topic under discussion for a long time. It seems now that AR might be willing to answer commercial sensitive question of a general nature if those questions can be couched in quite vague terms, I’d ask if the improvements to design made over the last few month have made the whole project more or less cost efficient. Is there a possibility that some other customer will place an order before this current contract is concluded based on the data already obtained from the 136 days(which I presume is the property of IH anyway?) or are no further contracts currently being considered?

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has indicated that others are interested & waiting the outcome of the pilot plant test. Of course, a final commitment will depend on the results.

  • Dave Lawton

    I worked as a Quantum Mechanic while working on a split bar Gravity wave detector.

  • Uncle Bob

    I’m just trying to remember what the reports were for the 1MW plant sold to the secret military customer three years ago.
    Did anyone ask him how it was going back then and if so, what did he say?

    • GreenWin

      Honestly Bob, if it’s a “secret” military entity, why would they let Rossi talk about it in public?

  • Omega Z

    Consensus Science is not Science.
    It is an argument to crush dissent.
    An Aberration of Science…

    • Alan DeAngelis

      As Wilhelm Reich said: the “craving for authority” instead of figuring things out for yourself.

      • bachcole

        I must dig deep to make health decisions for myself; it requires courage. I am sure that many people won’t follow my example because they prefer someone else make the decisions and do the thinking for them.

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi’s “too cheap to copy” strategy is naive and will break Rossi’s heart in the end. This strategy is based on the assumption that the E-Cat is the best possible form of LENR that can possibly be produced. This assumption is not true. Rossi has quite an ego to even think along those terms. The Solar Hydrogen Trends(SHT) system is a better system for many important LENR based applications. This instant on system does not take ten days to startup and it does not produce much heat. Such an improvement in technology does burn water and auminum as a consumable.There is also direct electrical conversion that would add great value to the LENR reactor concept. Take the auto engine as a very inportant LENR application for example. A instant on car engine is a good application for that mobile type of LENR application. There are train engines and plane engines and ship engines too. The Papp engine is even better than the hydrogen machine based on the kind of power that it produces. The Papp engine may be the best kind of application that LENR can produce for an engine since it generates only mechanical tork.

    When the powerful global big money energy players get their hands on an E-Cat and they allocate unlimited R&D money, armies of quantum mechanics and their high tech analysis equipment, It won’t take long for Rossi’s E-Cat to take on the the time worn antique visage of the Edison light bulb and the Wright brothers flyer in terms of its primitive technology. Rossi will be moved out of the LENR game so fast, it will make his head spin. His fate will be the same as that of Edison, Tesla, and the Wright Brothers. We will always love and respect Rossi as the man who got LENR off the ground, but Rossi will soon lose control of his baby just like Edison and the Wright Brothers lost control of their brain children. No man can keep power indefinitely or even for very long. There is too much competition around this world for any man to do that.

    • I think you’re probably right but also that their window will be open long enough that they will make piles of money and use those piles to remain major players at least for a decade or so, possibly in partnership with some larger entities that they are already working with.

      If they keep their focus on R&D and turn to a reactor customization and licensing model instead of a build an energy plant for you model (absurd!) then they could remain in the lead indefinitely.

      • Axil Axil

        Tesla on Edison: “If he had a needle to find in a haystack he would not stop to reason where it was most likely to be, but would proceed at once, with the feverish diligence of a bee, to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. … I was almost a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”

        —New York Times, October 19, 1931 (the day after Edison died)

        Like Edison, Rossi is a straw counter. His mode of working will get him only so far. He does not take the time to understand the science behind his invention. That is my opinion that few here will agree with. I understand this; QM is not popular. The reverse engineering of the E-Cat will advance QM by a huge amount in science. But the fact that Rossi totally disregards QM as the cause of LENR will seal his fate.

        • That’s a fair take on Rossi’s involvement but I imagine that Industrial Heat has employed many QM experts at this point and the whole effort has come to resemble a battleship (as Rossi would say) and not a row boat. And that we only hear about the row boat.

          I hope that’s not wishful thinking on my part.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          On Tesla’s other hand:
          “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.”
          – Nikola Tesla

          • Axil Axil

            Moderation in all things. There is such a thing as too much math and too much experimentation. A optimum mix of theory and experimentation is best.

          • bachcole

            Balance is the key.

        • Omega Z

          I seriously doubt Rossi believes there will be no competition. Lets be more specific. He says “to cheap to bother with reverse engineering his E-cat”. As in, many will just license his technology if the licensing fee isn’t over the top expensive. Obviously, some{Possibly even a licensee} will reverse engineer it hoping in time to find a better technic, but that will be time consuming & expensive.

          Note that Rossi also repeatedly says, All Energies will be Integrated to the ire of some. However, in one post he deviated & indicated for the foreseeable future. This is reality. The transition will take time & all other energies will continue to be used throughout. Only gradually being replaced.

          • Axil Axil

            I predict a1960s type “first man to step onto the Moon” type race between the West and China. The companies that control the major govenments in this world will pull out all the stops to be the undeputed LENR powerhouse. In such a race, Ross will be swept off the jacket of the world like a speck of dandruff

          • Omega Z

            Elon Musk is going to build his batteries in the U.S.. Paying his employees far more then the $2 an hour paid in China who also low balls it’s currency. And Musk expects to manufacture them 30% cheaper then buying them from China.

            A Major market for U.S. manufactured solar panels is China while the 2 largest manufactures in the world are in China, Filed bankruptcy & have warehouses full of surplus solar panels.

            As to LENR, It will take China 50 years to meet it’s own needs. I would bet that a U.S. concern(among others) could manufacture E-cats & sell them in China if they don’t put up import limitations.
            I point this out to show that People’s perceptions of the world differ from reality.

            What I see here at ECW is that some people are ready to throw Rossi under the bus just because, He wont freely give them his technology or He wont except some peoples point of view. I call these fair weather friends. I kicked my fair weather friends to the curb long ago. Don’t need them. They will take just get in the way and pull you down.

            As to Rossi’s marketing plans, I don’t think that is all up to him. There are many people involved. And Not just Industrial Heat. There were others involved prior to Industrial Heat. Rossi is just 1 of well over a dozen.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            You might be right, but I admire the man for trying. He has pulled
            it off so far, if he can continue to tread that fine line between trade secret
            and patent, he could have a very profitable ten years.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say but I must disagree with your “straw counter” comment. It is my opinion Rossi is trying hard to find the scientific basis of LENR, and he is reaching out to others for that purpose.

      • BroKeeper

        I agree with the window of opportunity. I doubt IH is no longer an R&D team of ten. To attempt replicating just one LENR device of an-others invention would take much time for a single team let alone replicating all known LENR devices. Then there are devising, engineering, testing and improving hundreds of possible E-Cat configuration/combinations for heat, electromagnetism, and electricity conversions.

        I have little doubt IH has grown in R&D size that would make many technological corporations envious. I also believe IH’s R&D has discovered and developed many aspects of LENR not yet divulged. How do I reason this? Just look at the huge leap to four 250KW E-Cats with very high SSM recently disclosed that replaced the 100 E-Cats last February. No one outside IH had any hint of its existence.

        Reverse engendering will not be enough to acquire the experience and knowledge accumulated over the past decade required to compete with such a
        formidable team led by AR. The longer the plant test runs the more Cherokee will invest in its development. Once cash begins to flow after its success, R&D operational reserves will be nearly endless.

        How many corporations would consider investing millions/billions just to catch-up to bottom-cost devices as Rossi promises (excluding a Rossi conditional buyout by the likes of GE, Tesla, Siemens, etc.)?

        Yes, there will be other LENR devices that will specialize in specific markets but following IH’s past patterns I would bet they will stay at least one step ahead for years to come in energy integration and adaptability.

        • ecatworld

          It’s interesting that twice recently Rossi has mentioned Leonardo Corporation:

          Andrea Rossi

          July 12th, 2015 at 9:04 AM

          Pippo Cavalieri:
          It is absolutely NOT impossible that the manufacturing will be made ALSO in Italy, where I already have acquaintances with persons and factories with strong experience in mass production of items with affinity with what we want to do in Europe as Leonardo Corporation.

          Andrea Rossi

          July 7th, 2015 at 6:04 PM

          Goran Grotz:
          The Intellectual Property is of Leonardo Corporation. We licensed its industrial and/or commercial rights to the Licensees for specific Territories. The Licenses sales are blocked ,anyway, since about 2 years.
          Warm Regards,

          He makes it sound that IH may not be in the driver’s seat for everything

          • BroKeeper

            Yes, that is interesting. Like we have gone full circle to what we thought about IH’s IP ownership. .

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Darden said they have licensed Rossi’s IP. Doesn’t this mean Rossi/Leonardo Corporation still owns the IP. Of course we are all guessing unless we are able to see the contract. But Rossi has been making statements which would make me believe he still has control of his IP

          • Omega Z

            I believe it is all a big partnership. Leonardo Corporation is also a partnership with 5 or 6 people involved. It’s appearance looks much like Facebook before going public. Many players with Rossi probably retaining 51%. Or Possible Rossi & family members holding a majority share.

      • LCD

        I agree with many that rossi has only a small runway to build up profits which he can then pour into r&d.

        But I think people have forgotten that this might be all he needs.

        lets say he builds one or two successful plants. His companies valuation, specially today, will go through the roof. Likely several, maybe 10B. he can then raise 1B and lose only 10% of his company.

    • Billy Jackson

      i don’t disagree with you at all. Neither Rossi nor IH have the experience or power to get into a real fight with the powers that be. In the end they will sell, be taken over, or become just another cog in the wheel of a large corporation who buys the technology out right.

      In the scheme of things they are nothing and no body important to the large corps that control our oil/energy.. as well intentioned as they may be.. its hard to compete with companies who make 100 billion every 3 months.

      • Omega Z

        In today’s world, “I” don’t need a factory or warehouses. All I need is a handful of intelligent people in an office & cash up front. In 6 to 12 months, You could go to a Big Box store & buy a 50″ LED “Omega Z” TV. The difference between my TV & a competitor would be minor cosmetics the biggest being the LOGO(Omega Z). It’s even possible to become the biggest brand name in the world. Note Brand names probably out number manufacurers by at least 100/1 one in many cases.

        I don’t think IH/Rossi intend to manufacture. I believe many have this impression due to the pilot plant. The pilot plant is just a part of R&D. You just can’t license a technology until it’s done. It would take years(And Billion$) for outsiders to figure this out & bring a product to market.

        Graphene as an example was of great interest to many Corporations. But even with all their Billions, they couldn’t manufacture it in large format. How do you make use of something limited to inches when you need hundreds of feet. They were stumped. Only recently have external researchers come up with large scale manufacturing answers.

        Thus with the pilot plant, Rossi can engineer the Reactors for optimal performance. Much of that performance depends on the controlling mechanism. The pilot plant provides the platform to figure out the computer algorithm for control of multiple reactors.

        With this data worked out, IH/Rossi can pass this on with the license agreement to manufacturers. In a year or so(After Rossi’s tests are done), you’ll go to Home Depot & buy a GE or Siemens home CHP system. They will appear different with only 1 thing in common. There will be a strategically place LOGO. (E-cat Inside).

        I think people forget about the thread here at ECW about Cherokee. The list on there site was a who’s who of all the big players. They(Darden) bring together people like Rossi with these players.(It’s what they do). Factories, warehouses & all the production complexities that go with that. IH/Rossi don’t need it. There is no Rossi to sweep aside.

    • wpj

      Ever wondered why there is so much recycling of aluminium cans? It’s because the cost of production of aluminium is so high with all of the electricity that is required. To use this as a consumable is madness.

    • jimbo92107

      Condensed matter neutron swapping does look like a vast playground of new inventions. Variations on the theme may become as common as chili recipes on the internet. Proliferation of new LENR techniques would certainly favor those with the money to buy ideas and develop them.

      Rossi has a good lead for now, but as Axil indicated, his inventions may soon be looked at as good proof of concept, but little more.

  • BillH

    The only proviso is how much it may have cost IH in order to provide this level of service.

    • clovis ray

      Hi, BillH.
      It’s high stakes ,from now on, if I/H has there foot in the door, they are very fortunate,anyone that through’s in with, I/H now, their kinfolks will never want,
      a quote from John D Rockefeller, telling his competition oil barons, about standard oil, that would be small potatoes, in comparison to the E-CAT.