Rossi: E-Cat X ‘A Real Revolution . . . Very, Very, Very Good’ (Update #2 — AR Hopes for Home Heat and Power Next Year)

UPDATE #2 (Aug. 18 2015) The question and answer from the Journal of Nuclear Physics below is the strongest indication yet of the kind of machine the E-Cat X is:

Anonymous
August 18th, 2015 at 1:54 PM
Dear Andrea Rossi:
Will be possible within one year to buy an E-Cat to heat a house and turn on the lights ?
All for you, you for all!

Andrea Rossi
August 18th, 2015 at 5:25 PM
Anonymous:
I hope yes. The E-Cat X promises well. I hope future will come soon enough, while we work for it.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

At this point I would not set a huge amount of hope on seeing E-Cat X reactors in the stores next year, since there are are probably all kinds of steps to complete to go from a prototype to a final product, but this response by Andrea Rossi gives a clear sign that the E-Cat X is designed to be a domestic power product that can provide heat and electricity for homes.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Early Sunday Morning, Andrea Rossi reports that he restarted a rebuilt Hot Cat (high temperature E-Cat reactor) that he is calling “M.me Curie”. The first iteration of this new design was started last week, and apparently performed quite well, but broke after 10 hours of operation. Ross seems quite excited about the new version of this design. This is what he writes today:

About the direct production, I have news related to the new Hot Cat, named “M.me Curie”. I am working with it, it is a real revolution. Is important. Works very strongly and I am very optimist. Now we must test its duration. The performance is very interesting. I want to be clear: it is soon to give data, it could have problems, but what I am seeing now is very, very, very good. It could be the leader for the very massive production. We will go directly from our tests to the market. If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification. I am like a coach of tennis that looks at a kid 4 years old playing and says: ” this is the future Federer”. Big , big hope. The result of an enormous R&D, working 16 hours per day.

I’m not exactly sure why Rossi is so excited about this version of the Hot Cat, and how it differs from previous versions, but there has to be something about its performance that has been very impressive. We might get some more details as testing continues. UPDATE: Some more information coming from Andrea Rossi on the Hot Cat improvements. I asked Rossi some questions, and got some answers:

Compared to previous Hot Cat versions, does it have:

1. Higher temperatures AR: Yes
2. Longer periods of self-sustain AR: Yes
3. Higher COP AR: Yes
4. Better power density AR: Yes
5. Something else AR: Yes
F9

Paul Asked: “Did you change the reactant mix from the last run to optimize direct electric production?” AR: Yes

This is very interesting — especially the part about optimizing the mix for direct electricity production. Since Rossi is hoping to find a way to generate electricity directly in the domestic E-Cat without using steam turbines.

UPDATE: (Aug 10, 2015)

Some concerns have been raised here about the chance that a new breakthrough will put on hold the current testing and plans for commercialization of the low temperature E-Cat technology being used in the 1MW plant currently under test. I asked Rossi about this just this morning:

Would a significant technological breakthrough with the Hot Cat, like the one you have described (F9) mean that your low temperature technology you are using with the 1 MW plant would be obsolete?

Would your plans to commercialize with your low temperature E-Cats be put on hold or stopped if this Hot Cat breakthrough is confirmed?

Frank Acland:
Absolutely not: the low temperature E-Cats have a totally different kind of employment that with the Hot Cat should not be possible.
The new Hot Cat will affect the domestic and totaly different kinds of application, while they are not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution, which is the market sector of the 1MW low temp E-Cat.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Curbina

    Is good to hear Rossi enthusiast for his new brain child. Hope we get some more detailed information in the future, perhaps through a patent application…

  • Curbina

    Is good to hear Rossi enthusiast for his new brain child. Hope we get some more detailed information in the future, perhaps through a patent application…

  • oceans

    Rossi > “We will go directly from our tests to the market. If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification.” YES !

  • Observer

    If Rossi has a reactor that directly produces electricity at a reasonably higher power than the input power required, then he will catch all of the regulatory agencies off-guard. There is no pre-existing technology for them to base the regulation on. The closest technology would be an atomic battery (radioisotope generator), but without radioactive materials. This would not help the regulators since they currently regulate just the use of the radioactive materials.

  • Observer

    If Rossi has a reactor that directly produces electricity at a reasonably higher power than the input power required, then he will catch all of the regulatory agencies off-guard. There is no pre-existing technology for them to base the regulation on. The closest technology would be an atomic battery (radioisotope generator), but without radioactive materials. This would not help the regulators since they currently regulate just the use of the radioactive materials.

  • Buck

    Wonderful and exciting.

    It prompts me to wonder what the COP is under Powered Mode, the percent of time in Self-Sustain Mode, and the rated output (temperature and kW) for this new Hot-Cat?

  • Buck

    Wonderful and exciting.

    It prompts me to wonder what the COP is under Powered Mode, the percent of time in Self-Sustain Mode, and the rated output (temperature and kW) for this new Hot-Cat?

  • AstralProjectee

    Sounds good can’t wait.

  • Observer

    Questions and answers from the Rossi Blog Reader:

    Compared to previous Hot Cat versions, does it (the new version of the Hot Cat) have:

    1. Higher temperatures…………………………..YES
    2. Longer periods of self-sustain………………YES
    3. Higher COP……………………………………….YES
    4. Better power density……………………………YES
    5. Something else…………………………………..YES

    Did you change the reactant mix from the last run to optimize direct electric production?….YES

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This is the news I’ve been waiting a quarter of a century for.

    PS
    I hope this book from 1993 will be on display in a museum 10,000 years from now.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/b/bf/20150727120530!Bad_Science_-_The_Short_Life_and_Weird_Times_of_Cold_Fusion.jpg

    • bfast

      Cool. ‘Hope it doesn’t take 10,000 years. (‘Seems that they’re already worth up to about $50 in the used market.) ‘Just bought one on amazon for $6.50 — you know, for posterity sake. Gotta tell my kids the truth about how LENR struggled for acceptance.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Good move bfast. It will be a collectors item.

    • You may want to add this one to your collection Alan.

      • nightcreature3

        The cold fusion deniers were so keen to keep the lid on this that they had one of these books installed at our public library.

        That a55hole Huizenga just kept on repeating the same few points on and on, ad nauseam, (as if trying to brainwash the reader,) without ever admitting that we have no reason to expect a newly discovered phenomenon to comply with the Physics theory of the past.

  • mcloki

    If AR is getting direct Electricity production and long Self sustain modes. That would be an absolute game changer.

    • bachcole

      Perhaps I missed something, but I didn’t see anything about direct electricity.

      • Observer

        A re-cap for those who were not paying attention:

        Paul: July 23rd, 2015 at 4:27 PM
        Andrea,
        Can the new hot cat design being tested directly generate electricity?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: July 23rd, 2015 at 5:56 PM
        Paul:
        Yes, it is one of its targets.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Italo R.: July 24th, 2015 at 4:06 AM
        Dear Dr Rossi, you have written that generating electricity is a target of the new Hot-Cat. I wonder (but probably you cannot enter in details) if that electricity could be generated by:
        1 – A pulsing magnetic field generated by Hot-Cat, or
        2 – Two electrodes inserted in some way inside the reactor, or
        3 – Using steam generated by the Hot-Cat ant a turbine, or
        4 – ??
        Kind Regards,
        Italo R.

        Andrea Rossi: July 24th, 2015 at 7:47 AM
        Italo R.:
        We are trying to obtain a direct production of electric power. Just R&D so far, but we are getting something. I cannot comment further.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Mark Saker: July 24th, 2015 at 6:51 AM
        Dear Andrea,
        Please give at least a tiny bit more information after such an exciting message.
        1. Have you performed any successful proof of concepts for the electricity generation?
        2. Is the aim for a single hotcat to provide enough energy to run a house both thermally and electrically or would more than one reactor be required?
        3. Can you give any indication as to the technology used for the electricity generation. Is it via an established conversion method such as a stirling engine or an exotic technology?
        Many Thanks and good luck with the new hot cat design.
        Mark Saker

        Andrea Rossi: July 24th, 2015 at 7:51 AM
        Mark Saker:
        1- some hint of direct electricity production has been measured
        2- too soon to know
        3- Direct production, I can’t comment further. It could not work, as well as it could. This is just one of the many targets we have in program with the R&D upon this new concept of Hot Cat; the main target remains an ssm as long as possible, to raise the COP as high as possible. Production of electricity can anyway and without any doubt made by means of well known cycles, mainly the Carnot cycle. Direct production remains intriguing, though, and we have measured direct current exiting from the Hot Cat in some amount, so that we want to know better the issue. So far it is not technology, it is just a pursue of knowledge: ” Fatti non foste a viver come bruti…”
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Paul: July 26th, 2015 at 11:27 PM
        Andrea,
        Did you monitor the electrical power output of the hot cat during start-up?
        If so, at what temperature did electrical power generation commence?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: July 27th, 2015 at 7:43 AM
        Paul:
        I understand and sympathize with your thirst of knowledge, but it is too soon to answer. We are collecting data. I cannot even confirm that we will be able to harness and make useful the electric signals we are getting from inside the reactor. She is a completely new concept, I have no idea if it will last and how much will last. If it will go we will have made a gigantic step forward toward a massive application.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Andrea Rossi: August 9th, 2015 at 5:45 PM
        Alexvs:
        Now it is 06.45 p.m. of Sunday August 9 2015. An important date.
        You are not wrong, but I must repeat my mantric disclaimer: the final results could be positive, but also negative. About the direct production, I have news related to the new Hot Cat, named “M.me Curie”.
        I am working with it, it is a real revolution. Is important. Works very strongly and I am very optimist. Now we must test its duration. The performance is very interesting. I want to be clear: it is soon to give data, it could have problems, but what I am seeing now is very, very, very good. It could be the leader for the very massive production. We will go directly from our tests to the market. If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification. I am like a coach of tennis that looks at a kid 4 years old playing and says: ” this is the future Federer”. Big , big hope. The result of an enormous R&D, working 16 hours per day.
        I have gone off the trail of your question, but I think you don’t mind.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Paul: August 9th, 2015 at 7:18 PM
        Andrea,
        I am overjoyed to hear the tests of the M.me Curie E-cat is producing optimistic results.
        Did you change the reactant mix from the last run to optimize direct electric production?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: August 9th, 2015 at 7:38 PM
        Paul:
        Yes.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

  • mcloki

    If AR is getting direct Electricity production and long Self sustain modes. That would be an absolute game changer.

    • bachcole

      Perhaps I missed something, but I didn’t see anything about direct electricity.

      • Observer

        A re-cap for those who were not paying attention:

        Paul: July 23rd, 2015 at 4:27 PM
        Andrea,
        Can the new hot cat design being tested directly generate electricity?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: July 23rd, 2015 at 5:56 PM
        Paul:
        Yes, it is one of its targets.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Italo R.: July 24th, 2015 at 4:06 AM
        Dear Dr Rossi, you have written that generating electricity is a target of the new Hot-Cat. I wonder (but probably you cannot enter in details) if that electricity could be generated by:
        1 – A pulsing magnetic field generated by Hot-Cat, or
        2 – Two electrodes inserted in some way inside the reactor, or
        3 – Using steam generated by the Hot-Cat ant a turbine, or
        4 – ??
        Kind Regards,
        Italo R.

        Andrea Rossi: July 24th, 2015 at 7:47 AM
        Italo R.:
        We are trying to obtain a direct production of electric power. Just R&D so far, but we are getting something. I cannot comment further.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Mark Saker: July 24th, 2015 at 6:51 AM
        Dear Andrea,
        Please give at least a tiny bit more information after such an exciting message.
        1. Have you performed any successful proof of concepts for the electricity generation?
        2. Is the aim for a single hotcat to provide enough energy to run a house both thermally and electrically or would more than one reactor be required?
        3. Can you give any indication as to the technology used for the electricity generation. Is it via an established conversion method such as a stirling engine or an exotic technology?
        Many Thanks and good luck with the new hot cat design.
        Mark Saker

        Andrea Rossi: July 24th, 2015 at 7:51 AM
        Mark Saker:
        1- some hint of direct electricity production has been measured
        2- too soon to know
        3- Direct production, I can’t comment further. It could not work, as well as it could. This is just one of the many targets we have in program with the R&D upon this new concept of Hot Cat; the main target remains an ssm as long as possible, to raise the COP as high as possible. Production of electricity can anyway and without any doubt made by means of well known cycles, mainly the Carnot cycle. Direct production remains intriguing, though, and we have measured direct current exiting from the Hot Cat in some amount, so that we want to know better the issue. So far it is not technology, it is just a pursue of knowledge: ” Fatti non foste a viver come bruti…”
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Paul: July 26th, 2015 at 11:27 PM
        Andrea,
        Did you monitor the electrical power output of the hot cat during start-up?
        If so, at what temperature did electrical power generation commence?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: July 27th, 2015 at 7:43 AM
        Paul:
        I understand and sympathize with your thirst of knowledge, but it is too soon to answer. We are collecting data. I cannot even confirm that we will be able to harness and make useful the electric signals we are getting from inside the reactor. She is a completely new concept, I have no idea if it will last and how much will last. If it will go we will have made a gigantic step forward toward a massive application.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Andrea Rossi: August 9th, 2015 at 5:45 PM
        Alexvs:
        Now it is 06.45 p.m. of Sunday August 9 2015. An important date.
        You are not wrong, but I must repeat my mantric disclaimer: the final results could be positive, but also negative. About the direct production, I have news related to the new Hot Cat, named “M.me Curie”.
        I am working with it, it is a real revolution. Is important. Works very strongly and I am very optimist. Now we must test its duration. The performance is very interesting. I want to be clear: it is soon to give data, it could have problems, but what I am seeing now is very, very, very good. It could be the leader for the very massive production. We will go directly from our tests to the market. If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification. I am like a coach of tennis that looks at a kid 4 years old playing and says: ” this is the future Federer”. Big , big hope. The result of an enormous R&D, working 16 hours per day.
        I have gone off the trail of your question, but I think you don’t mind.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        Paul: August 9th, 2015 at 7:18 PM
        Andrea,
        I am overjoyed to hear the tests of the M.me Curie E-cat is producing optimistic results.
        Did you change the reactant mix from the last run to optimize direct electric production?
        Paul

        Andrea Rossi: August 9th, 2015 at 7:38 PM
        Paul:
        Yes.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

    • Uncle Bob

      Yes, exactly. This sounds like the new ‘rabbit out of the hat’ that we’ve all been waiting for.
      Isn’t this just great news?

  • Uncle Bob

    Well that’s just fantastic news.

    Higher temperatures,

    Higher power densities,

    Higher COP’s

    Plus something else. Both AC and DC maybe?

    And it’s going straight to the market after the tests, and getting the safety certificate of course, in October maybe.

    That’s just incredibly good news. I can hardly believe it.

    I wonder why this one with performance figures and energy densities so much higher can go straight to the market when the original e-cat which only ran at 120 degrees C and always ran in fail safe mode was held up so long trying to get it certified.

    • Omega Z

      The Lt-cat received certification for industrial use a couple years ago.
      He indicated that the Ht-cat had received certification a year ago.
      That this new version needs certified indicates some major design or operational change.

  • Uncle Bob

    Well that’s just fantastic news.

    Higher temperatures,

    Higher power densities,

    Higher COP’s

    Plus something else. Both AC and DC maybe?

    And it’s going straight to the market after the tests, and getting the safety certificate of course, in October maybe.

    That’s just incredibly good news. I can hardly believe it.

    I wonder why this one with performance figures and energy densities so much higher can go straight to the market when the original e-cat which only ran at 120 degrees C and always ran in fail safe mode was held up so long trying to get it certified.

    • Omega Z

      The Lt-cat received certification for industrial use a couple years ago.
      He indicated that the Ht-cat had received certification a year ago.
      That this new version needs certified indicates some major design or operational change.

  • Axil Axil

    The recent experiments by Holmlid indicate the production of a zoo of sub-atomic particles including muons associated with the LENR reaction. When muons decay, they produce electrons. Could the Hot cat be producing this unusual type of radiation? Is the name “M.me Curie” be related to the discovery of radiation? Will the Hot cat produce so much muon radiation that it may be harmful to Rossi in that shipping container? Does Rossi know that his Hot cat is producing muons? Will Rossi meet the same fate as “M.me Curie” under the possible extreme exposure to radiation? When breaking new ground in science danger to life and limb sometimes occurs.

    • hempenearth

      I had also wondered why “Marie Curie” but put it down to Rossi’s nature if they are hoping for safety certification in October

      • Axil Axil

        In 1903, Becquerel and the Curies together received the Nobel Prize in physics. This award was for their discovery of radioactivity and their other contributions in this area. Marie Curie received a second Nobel Prize in 1911 for the discovery of polonium and radium.

        In 1906 Pierre Curie died when he was run over by a horse-drawn carriage. Marie Curie died in 1934 of aplastic anemia, a form of bone marrow damage probably caused by all the radiation she endured.

        • fusionrudy

          Interesting article by Bill Gates:
          We Need Clean-Energy Innovation, and Lots of It
          http://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/Energy-Innovation?WT.mc_id=08_08_2015_EnergyIntro_BG-TW_&WT.tsrc=BGTW

          Not a word about his visit to the Italian LENR labs !

          • mcloki

            He only mentioned ideas that have made it out of the lab. His nuclear initiative has been around for years. I can see him being cautious mentioning LENR.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, But note that since his visit to the Italian LENR labs, He has announced a personal contribution of 2 Billion$ for new energy R&D. This is not money from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation but directly from his own pocket.

            Given that the ENEA was fishing for funding, I would expect at least some of this went to them. However, it would be nice if that could be confirmed. The time interval between that visit & his contribution would be about right.

          • Gerrit

            I am very confident that we will not be able to buy ecats for home use within the next year.

            I may change my mind if I see results of the 1MW plant early 2016.

    • Observer

      Probably one of the reasons Rossi is spending 16 hours a day with the reactors is to show there are no ill effects to casual contact.

      Rossi is betting his life, fortune, and reputation on this technology.

    • Alain Samoun

      Axil: Explain how the muon can be dangerous for Rossi please.

      • Axil Axil

        If muons from the “Mouse” can catalyze SSM in the “Cat” it could also canalize fusion reactions inside Rossi.

        http://www.i2u2.org/elab/cosmic/posters/display.jsp?name=poster.lead.cool.man.data

        The Effects of Lead Shielding on Muon Counts…. If you are near a LENR reactor, tt looks like lots of muons will get to and into the body. I wonder if muons are harmful?

        Aside from the possible (likely) harm from muons, the curious and disturbing thing about this paper is that the authors:

        1) expected to see a decreasing rate of muon counts as more lead above the detectors was added,

        2) They were extremely surprised to see that when going from 15cm to 20cm of lead, the count rate of muons actually increased

        3) This data point was extremely unexpected. They had expected that the rate of decrease of the muon count rates would have slowed, but the last thing expected was for the count rates to actually increase.

        That is a lot of lead, first of all. Even then, it never blocked all the muons. For the muon count to increase, with thicker lead, this means that some kind of chain reaction is happening above a thickness level, but muon keep progressing thought the metal.

        As an analogy – (of how LENR could benefit from this) consider the known parameters of fission … a chain reaction of neutrons is the driver of fission reactors, and thus the concept of a chain reaction of muons is intriguing. Can muons be harvested?

        As for using this information in a practical manner, the main problem is that tons of lead would be needed for even a small reactor – and in the end – the question is whether they can be converted into energy.

        • Alain Samoun

          “What would happen if Rossi became QM coherent like one of his Cats?”
          See here

        • Gerard McEk

          So AR should screen the reactor with Rydberg matter for personal safety precautions as well as use it also for direct electricity production?

          • Axil Axil

            Do you think Rydberg matter could be used as an all purpose radiation shield?

          • Gerard McEk

            Axil, can you explain how Rydberg matter is formed? Is Ultra dense Deuterium or Hydrogen the same as a sort of Rydberg matter?

          • Axil Axil

            Hydrogen based Rydberg matter(Ultra dense Deuterium or Hydrogen) is formed by a catalyst or an electric arc.

        • Warthog

          I confess confusion. I thought muons were inherently charged, negatively for the muon and positively for the antimuon. Being both more massive than the electron, and having the same charge, how does the muon travel any distance at all significant inside matter, when “beta particles” are stopped within quite a short distance???

          Note, I’m no physicist, and don’t even claim to imitate one on alternate Saturdays.

          • Axil Axil

            Muons have a mass of 105.7 MeV/c2, which is about 207 times that of the electron. Due to their greater mass, muons are not as sharply accelerated when they encounter electromagnetic fields, and do not emit as much bremsstrahlung (deceleration radiation). This allows muons of a given energy to penetrate far more deeply into matter than electrons, since the deceleration of electrons and muons is primarily due to energy loss by the bremsstrahlung mechanism. As an example, so-called “secondary muons”, generated by cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere, can penetrate to the Earth’s surface, and even into deep mines.

          • Warthog

            Yes, but all of that would be caused by the very high energy imparted by the original generating cosmic ray, would it not? Muons formed by conditions within the solid state “Rydberg matter” would pretty much be “thermalized”, and of much lower energy, no???

  • Axil Axil

    The recent experiments by Holmlid indicate the production of a zoo of sub-atomic particles including muons associated with the LENR reaction. When muons decay, they produce electrons. Could the Hot cat be producing this unusual type of radiation? Is the name “M.me Curie” related to the discovery of radiation? Will the Hot cat produce so much muon radiation that it may be harmful to Rossi in that shipping container? Does Rossi know that his Hot cat is producing muons? Does Rossi use test equipment to test for muons? Will Rossi meet the same fate as “M.me Curie” under the possible extreme exposure to radiation? When breaking new ground in science danger to life and limb sometimes occurs.

    All those muons coming from the “Mouse” might be driving the “Cat” into unexpectedly high SSM efficiency. Any reactor that can produce all those electron, so many as to enable direct electrical production, that reactor must be producing huge amounts of muons. Rossi realty doesn’t know what is happening inside the Hot cat…it new…and he is just an experimenter, but there is no free lunch in this world. For all those who care for Rossi’s welfare. for safety sake, convince him to leave that shipping container.

    • hempenearth

      I had also wondered why “Marie Curie” but put it down to Rossi’s nature if they are hoping for safety certification in October

      • Axil Axil

        In 1903, Becquerel and the Curies together received the Nobel Prize in physics. This award was for their discovery of radioactivity and their other contributions in this area. Marie Curie received a second Nobel Prize in 1911 for the discovery of polonium and radium.

        In 1906 Pierre Curie died when he was run over by a horse-drawn carriage. But by 1920, Marie Curie was suffering from medical problems, likely due to her exposure to radioactive materials. On July 4, 1934, she died of aplastic anemia, a blood disease that is often caused by too much exposure to radiation.

    • Observer

      Probably one of the reasons Rossi is spending 16 hours a day with the reactors is to show there are no ill effects to casual contact.

      Rossi is betting his life, fortune, and reputation on this technology.

      • Uncle Bob

        What a guy! eh?
        That must be why he has taken on the job of round the clock supervision of the plant himself.
        You just can’t get that sort of dedication from hired help.
        I’m sure they’re all really dedicated but there is a limit to what you can ask of them.

    • Alain Samoun

      Axil: Explain how the muon can be dangerous for Rossi please.

      • Axil Axil

        If muons from the “Mouse” can catalyze SSM in the “Cat” it could also catalyze fusion reactions inside Rossi.

        http://www.i2u2.org/elab/cosmic/posters/display.jsp?name=poster.lead.cool.man.data

        The Effects of Lead Shielding on Muon Counts…. If you are near a LENR reactor, tt looks like lots of muons will get to and into the body. I wonder if muons are harmful?

        Aside from the possible (likely) harm from muons, the curious and disturbing thing about this paper is that the authors:

        1) expected to see a decreasing rate of muon counts as more lead above the detectors was added,

        2) They were extremely surprised to see that when going from 15cm to 20cm of lead, the count rate of muons actually increased

        3) This data point was extremely unexpected. They had expected that the rate of decrease of the muon count rates would have slowed, but the last thing expected was for the count rates to actually increase.

        That is a lot of lead, first of all. Even then, it never blocked all the muons. For the muon count to increase, with thicker lead, this means that some kind of chain reaction is happening above a thickness level, but muon keep progressing thought the metal.

        As an analogy – (of how LENR could benefit from this) consider the known parameters of fission … a chain reaction of neutrons is the driver of fission reactors, and thus the concept of a chain reaction of muons is intriguing. Can muons be harvested?

        As for using this information in a practical manner, the main problem is that tons of lead would be needed for even a small reactor – and in the end – the question is whether they can be converted into energy.

        The flow of Muons from the “Mouse” into the “Cats” in Rossi’s Self Sustain mode (SSM) configuration looks like an application of a muon chain reaction that we are speculating about. We will need to watch Rossi to see what type of health problems he develops from his time inside the shipping container.

        Muons have a very low interaction cross section with matter; muons do not interact with matter much at all at backgroud levels. That low reaction cross section is why muons are harmless to health act background levels, But the Hot cat might be producing a huge number of muons in SSM mode. However, in the Cat and Mouse configuration employed in the Rossi’s SSM mode, something must be increasing that cross section by a huge amount. That increase in the level of the probability of reaction must be due to a quantum mechanical process. My guess the cause is coherence of the Cat. A Bose condensate might make the Cat look like an atom that is many centimeters in size. The muon from the mouse can’t help but react with an atom that is that big. The same must be true of neutrinos. Coherence and entanglement might make particles that don’t usually interact with atoms always interact with Super Atoms in a Bose condensate cause by quantum effects.

        Just the muons that come to earth from cosmic rays might trigger nuclear reactions in a Bose condensate. Rydberg matter because of its coherence might be a great receiver for subatomic particles that don’t usually interact with matter at all. What would happen if Rossi became QM coherent like one of his “Cats”?

        • Alain Samoun

          “What would happen if Rossi became QM coherent like one of his Cats?”
          See here

        • Gerard McEk

          So AR should screen the reactor with Rydberg matter for personal safety precautions as well as use it also for direct electricity production?

          • Axil Axil

            Do you think Rydberg matter could be used as an all purpose radiation shield? maybe…

          • Gerard McEk

            Axil, can you explain how Rydberg matter is formed? Is Ultra dense Deuterium or Hydrogen the same as a sort of Rydberg matter?

          • Axil Axil

            Hydrogen based Rydberg matter(Ultra dense Deuterium or Hydrogen) is formed by a catalyst or an electric arc.

        • Warthog

          I confess confusion. I thought muons were inherently charged, negatively for the muon and positively for the antimuon. Being both more massive than the electron, and having the same charge, how does the muon travel any distance at all significant inside matter, when “beta particles” are stopped within quite a short distance???

          Note, I’m no physicist, and don’t even claim to imitate one on alternate Saturdays.

          • Axil Axil

            Muons have a mass of 105.7 MeV/c2, which is about 207 times that of the electron. Due to their greater mass, muons are not as sharply accelerated when they encounter electromagnetic fields, and do not emit as much bremsstrahlung (deceleration radiation). This allows muons of a given energy to penetrate far more deeply into matter than electrons, since the deceleration of electrons and muons is primarily due to energy loss by the bremsstrahlung mechanism. As an example, so-called “secondary muons”, generated by cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere, can penetrate to the Earth’s surface, and even into deep mines.

          • Warthog

            Yes, but all of that would be caused by the very high energy imparted by the original generating cosmic ray, would it not? Muons formed by conditions within the solid state “Rydberg matter” would pretty much be “thermalized”, and of much lower energy, no???

    • Uncle Bob

      It might be that the reactor uses some radioactive element in it’s construction, in the secret catalyst maybe?
      I did wonder why he chose to refer to it as the ‘M.me Curie’ when she was french and he isn’t.
      The name would seem to indicate that radiation is involved, either used or produced. Either way, that wont help speed up certification.
      It could be tied up in certification for a very long time.
      I suppose first we need to wait and see if the results are ‘positive or negative’ because if they are negative, then it wont matter whether radiation is involved or not.

      • Warthog

        Actually, Dr. MADAME Curie was Polish. Dr MONSIEUR Curie was indeed French.

  • Tapiiri

    I think Rossi is a little bit too greedy. How many millions of tons of co2 has to be released to atmosphere so that Rossi can finalize his products and get them to market. How many people has to die because there are not enough drinking water and food. How many wars there has to be before Rossi is satisfied with his COP? Maybe even Ukrains war against Russia would not have begun if this invention had been published.
    Why can’t he settle to be only millionaire instead of super billionaire. This has been going on since 2011 and even now nobody outside Rossi’s inner circle knows if this is true or not.

    • rocky172534

      pons and fleishmen hurried up introduction before they were of sure of consistancy and
      viability and the oligarch’s jumped on it because of oil interests ,afterwards cold fusion was buried for twenty years at least.rossi is making 100% sure he has a working product,or the 1% will have it shelved until the planet dies.

    • LilyLover

      More CO2, more plants. Yay!! People kill people, so, people die. World food production > 130% of need. Redistribution immorality keeps ~15% hungry. Stone-hearted people make wars and you accuse Rossi of lethargy? Oil wars are the last ditch efforts of the dying parasites to profit off of human misery.
      If you understand his lifestyle, to him money doesn’t matter as much – to award the entire humanity with next to free energy is his goal – and he is remarkably on track.
      To undo what the church did to Galileo causing centuries of dark-age is a tough task to undo within a decade.

  • kenko1

    October? great! (which year?)😈

  • kenko1

    October? great! (which year?)😈

    • Robert Ellefson

      2011

  • Axil Axil

    Regarding: If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification.

    There have been many industrial hazards that have been recognized far to late to have prevented untold incidence of injury to many innocent workers and customers during recent years.

    Asbestos, tobacco, mercury, head trauma from helmet impacts in football and so on have shown their distributive nature far too late. The LENR safety certification.must include all possible radiation hazards including all subatomic particles, EMF, and quantum effects that are producing the vital Hot cat operations like Self Sustain Mode (SSM). Just because SSM works, we must find out how it works and make sure that the SSM reaction mechanism as well as all other LENR mechanisms totally safe…and not harmful to life and health.

    • Roblaw

      So no omelette then?
      :-{

    • many risk like asbestos were known since long (Roman time for asbestos), but ignored for the usefulness of application (fire protection here), the comparative low risk (compared to current mortality) and finally to pure conservatisme of statuquo and economic rents.

      Tobacco was know toxic but it is hard to fight bad habbits of you electors (voters are harder lobbyist than companies).

      there was a study on industrial risk like gas storage in cities, and very early the risk was known , but controlled, accepted, and reassessed after some predictable accidents…

      question is to compare the death toll with the problem it solves.
      Our current civilization is clearly unable to do that, but until 1950 people were able to understand that all was risky, and that if a dangerous technology was saving life, or proxy of life support: money, then come risk analysis should be done…

      today we have umbrella risk management (NIMEY, NIMBY, precaution principle) and lobby*media obedience (organic, coal, green, industry, farmers, consumers)…

      my vision of risk analysis for LENR is that it could be insured if :
      – the size of the individual installation is limited to an acceptable loss, I mean not more fuel than what could erase a block with a thermonuclear bomb.
      – if any incident, problem, dysfunction, is registered and transmitted in hours of a day to all users
      – if blackswan incident, like for plane crash, can trigger an instant stop of all installation on earth until the problem is understood, and a mitigation procedure proposed and tested.

      where energy save more life, because people are poorer or live in hard environment, the risk taken could be higher than where energy is a luxury.

      I would propose a mutual insurance against blackswan incidents, based on the protocol :
      – catastrophe fund treated as a mutual retirement saving account unless used
      – installation size limit (in term of catastrophe impact – bigger in desert)
      – incident report exchange and mandatory regular and post-incident maintenance
      – independent decision for general shutdown procedure

      for me for LENR it is the only

  • Axil Axil

    Rossi: “If goes on what I am seeing now, in October will be tried the safety certification.”

    There have been many industrial hazards that have been recognized far to late to have prevented untold incidence of injury to many innocent workers and customers during recent years.

    Asbestos, tobacco, mercury, head trauma from helmet impacts in football and so on have shown their distributive nature far too late. The LENR safety certification.must include all possible radiation hazards including all subatomic particles, EMF, and quantum effects that are producing the vital Hot cat operations like Self Sustain Mode (SSM). Just because SSM works, we must find out how it works and make sure that the SSM reaction mechanism as well as all other LENR mechanisms are totally safe…and not harmful to life and health.

    Theory…valid theory must come first before LENR product production and consumption. OR we could let the Chinese use the Hot cat for a time and from their experience judge it safe or not. It can’t be as harmful as coal.

    • Roblaw

      So no omelette then?
      :-{

    • many risk like asbestos were known since long (Roman time for asbestos), but ignored for the usefulness of application (fire protection here), the comparative low risk (compared to current mortality) and finally to pure conservatisme of statuquo and economic rents.

      Tobacco was know toxic but it is hard to fight bad habbits of you electors (voters are harder lobbyist than companies).

      there was a study on industrial risk like gas storage in cities, and very early the risk was known , but controlled, accepted, and reassessed after some predictable accidents…

      question is to compare the death toll with the problem it solves.
      Our current civilization is clearly unable to do that, but until 1950 people were able to understand that all was risky, and that if a dangerous technology was saving life, or proxy of life support: money, then some risk analysis should be done…

      today we have umbrella risk management (NIMEY, NIMBY, precaution principle) and lobby*media obedience (organic, coal, green, industry, farmers, consumers)…

      my vision of risk analysis for LENR is that it could be insured if :
      – the size of the individual installation is limited to an acceptable loss, I mean not more fuel than what could erase a block with a thermonuclear bomb.
      – if any incident, problem, dysfunction, is registered and transmitted in hours or a day to all users
      – if blackswan incident, like for plane crash, can trigger an instant stop of all installation on earth until the problem is understood, and a mitigation procedure proposed and tested.

      where energy save more life, because people are poorer or live in hard environment, the risk taken could be higher than where energy is a luxury.

      I would propose a mutual insurance against blackswan incidents, based on the protocol :
      – catastrophe fund treated as a mutual retirement saving account unless used
      – installation size limit (in term of catastrophe impact – bigger in desert)
      – incident report exchange and mandatory regular and post-incident maintenance
      – independent decision for general shutdown procedure

      for me for LENR it is the only way LENR could spread in our fearful overinsured society.

  • Paul

    If you shield it properly, no reactor can be harmful. So, they should be shielded for better safety, at leat until a theory is public. This is good sense, if you do not like Russian roulette…

    • Axil Axil

      Muons and penetrate 700 meters of earth? Your solution: dig an 800 meter hole?

      • Paul

        You can protect yourself also with distance. At 10 meter you have a significant lower emission, whatever source you have. However, if muons were produced, they would be easily detected from their secondary products if a proper study is done (but has this detection been tried by Rossi? I suspect no).

        • Axil Axil

          Yes, the inverse square law will reduce exposure with distance. Therefore, Rossi should leave his container.

          • Paul

            No, an industrial customer should keep away all the workers 10 meters from the (shielded) container until a theory is public. Rossi has only to hope he has done proper measures…

          • artefact

            The treasures hidden in the “whole new field of physics” are slowly digged out of the cave
            which was declared a no go area and covered by concrete.
            Some very promising treasure chests are still marked by a strange F9 sign though 🙂

      • Gerard McEk

        Axil, if Muons do not interact, how can you measure them?

        • Stephen

          I’m on the edge of my seat… I hope the test continues to bare out. all the best for his team.

          I’m quite curious about the muon discussion here… i wonder how they can best be detected. would it be with Scintillators or from characteristic Brehmsstrahlung radiation?

      • kenko1

        Maybe a way to turn the hot-cat on and off reliably , quickly and safely has been discovered. Thus the speculation for certification in October (of this year???).

  • Paul

    If you shield it properly, no reactor can be harmful. So, they should be shielded for better safety, at leat until a theory is public. This is good sense, if you do not like Russian roulette…

    • Axil Axil

      Muons can penetrate 700 meters of earth? Your solution: dig an 800 meter hole?

      • Paul

        You can protect yourself also with distance. At 10 meter you have a significant lower emission, whatever source you have. However, if muons were produced, they would be easily detected from their secondary products if a proper study is done (but has this detection been tried by Rossi? I suspect no).

        • Axil Axil

          Yes, the inverse square law will reduce exposure with distance. Therefore, Rossi should leave his container.

          • Paul

            No, an industrial customer should keep away all the workers 10 meters from the (shielded) container until a theory is public. Rossi has only to hope he has done proper measures…

      • Gerard McEk

        Axil, if Muons do not interact, how can you measure them?

  • Stephen

    I’m on the edge of my seat… I hope the test continues to bear out. all the best for his team. It must be amazing to be able to see what they have seen.

    I’m quite curious about the muon discussion here…

    Are the ones proposed to be produced here only negatively charged? or both positive an negative?

    I wonder how they can best be detected. would it be with Scintillators or from characteristic Brehmsstrahlung radiation in an EM field? Or gamma from annihilation of positive electrons or muons if they are generated.

    • bachcole

      I am well aware that I don’t know much about nuclear physics, and thanks to my honesty about it probably most everyone else here knows. BUT, from my perspective of being at some distance from the theoretical action, I vote for muons being the driving force of LENR. It is the one thing that conventional physicists believe has enough energy to cause fusion. Rossi also said that the Rossi Effect does not need new physics. So, I am going with muons.

      • Stephen

        Thanks Bachcole.

        I think there are a lot of concepts considered in LENR that are new to a lot of us even if we know some Physics, LENR touches on so many aspects I suspect very few have a grasp of everything. It amazes me how just as I feel I understand something in LENR something new comes up that gives an entirely new perspective. Its a real puzzle trying to find the right combination of pieces in a system of diverse ideas that makes it work but it makes it fascinating to follow too. Taking a step back and looking from your perspective is very wise too.

        Muon catalysed fusion is new too me too its an amazing phenomena I think and could well have a part to play in LENR.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion

        Jones Beene just started an interesting thread on the Vortex-l mail archive that touches on the subject too. I found it fascinating:

        https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg104168.html

        I wonder if there is a good source for the muons?
        I wonder if their lifetime can be extended and if they can be ejected instead of gamma as Jones Beene suggests.

        According to the wikipedia link muons eventually get “stuck” to Alpha particles. I wonder if they eventually decay to electrons once they are stuck or if there is a way to prevent the sticking so they can sustain more fusion reactions?

        I’m looking forward to see how this idea develops

  • attaboy

    In practically all of the many product development projects I worked on in industry, a time came when I was told it was needed to go commercial with the experimental product I was working on, and do it NOW!! This time usually came after I’d come up with something promising and there was a perceived need by Sales/Marketing that they could wait no longer for the product. Often, this left me feeling that if we could only wait more time I could deliver a further improved product that would be more likely to succeed. But that wasn’t to happen. Fortunately for Rossi, but unfortunately for the rest of the world, he is under no such constraints as I was, unless you consider his need to come up with the money to continue the development of a yet further improved product.
    I’m convinced that what Rossi has done will go down as one of man’s greatest achievements. But the time is long past when Rossi should have taken his most promising product, and began commercialization. Before the month of October, 2011, he promised that in that month he would begin commercialization. That time came but nothing happened. The next thing that came from Rossi was that he was now working on a hot cat. In other words, commercialization was delayed to do more research etc. And its been more or less this way ever since with vague rumblings about commercialization every now and then. Now he tells us about a very very very good _ _ _ _ . I don’t want to hear about that. By now he could have been making enough money from the 2011 commercialization that he could handily develop any number of “very very very good” whatevers. ANDREA ROSSI – – TAKE YOUR MOST PROMISING DEVELOPMENT, YOUR BEST SHOT, IF YOU WILL, AND PUT IT INTO A FORM WHERE IT CAN BE EASILY MANUFACTURED AND SOLD IN LARGE QUANTITIES. MAKE THAT YOUR #1 PRIORITY BY FAR, AND DO IT NOW. WE NEED IT EVER SO BADLY!!!

    • Alberonn

      AMEN…

    • GreenWin

      We feel your frustration. Were you an investor in E-Cat tech you’d have a reasonable gripe. But if you are an E-Cat investor you’d have told us by now. So, try to relax and let the Doc work at his own pace. No amount of sideline coaching will change that pace.

      Might be easier to stay away a while. Lower the frustration. 🙂

      • attaboy

        Well I certainly didn’t expect this kind of comment to be made lol. Its hard to relax when we need this so badly and Rossi appears to be dragging his feet.

        • Uncle Bob

          Have you considered the possibility that nothing has been sold because there is not yet anything to sell which would justify the claims made?
          After five years with nothing yet proven to have a COP of 6, that is definitely a possibility.
          Something released to the market which was later shown to have minimal COP would not help his important work to continue.

  • kenko1

    Maybe a way to turn the hot-cat on and off reliably , quickly and safely has been discovered. Thus the speculation for certification in October (of this year???).

  • ecatworld

    Dear Dr. Rossi, very exciting news about “Madame Curie” !!
    But someone fears that this new Hot-Cat can generate muons, with danger to your health, as happened to Madame Curie last century …
    Kind Regards

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 7:18 AM
    Italo R.:
    We measure permanently the radiations outside theE-Cat and no ionizing radiation above the background has ever been ever detected.
    My health, thanks to God, is perfect. The surgery I got on July 20 was only for an inguinal hernia that exited for excess of physical fatigue.
    The great scientist Dr Curie ( commonly referred to as “Madame Curie”) is dead not for muons, but because she manipulated radioactive atoms, without knowing their dangerousness ( due to the scarce if not zero knowledge of the effects on health at those times).
    We do not use or produce radioactive materials and to not emit out of the E-Cats any ionizing radiation, as it has been measured in all the tests we made in the last 6 years.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Frank Acland

    Dear Dr. Rossi, very exciting news about “Madame Curie” !!
    But someone fears that this new Hot-Cat can generate muons, with danger to your health, as happened to Madame Curie last century …
    Kind Regards

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 7:18 AM
    Italo R.:
    We measure permanently the radiations outside theE-Cat and no ionizing radiation above the background has ever been ever detected.
    My health, thanks to God, is perfect. The surgery I got on July 20 was only for an inguinal hernia that exited for excess of physical fatigue.
    The great scientist Dr Curie ( commonly referred to as “Madame Curie”) is dead not for muons, but because she manipulated radioactive atoms, without knowing their dangerousness ( due to the scarce if not zero knowledge of the effects on health at those times).
    We do not use or produce radioactive materials and to not emit out of the E-Cats any ionizing radiation, as it has been measured in all the tests we made in the last 6 years.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • artefact

    Gian Luca
    August 10th, 2015 at 3:13 AM
    Dear Readers:
    The real news for all the persons that are interested to the work related to the E-Cat is what Andrea Rossi said: “I am working with it, it is a real revolution. Is important. Works very strongly and I am very optimist” (Ecatnews).
    I am very happy to hear these words.
    From the tests of Lugano Andrea he has never exceeded in emphasis.
    Great news coming?

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 7:31 AM
    Gian Luca:
    You are right: I think something very important is coming, but maybe I am wrong. We are working on it.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Bob

    🙁
    I am getting a very uneasy feeling about this and please believe me that I am a supporter and WANT this all to be true! But I am also not blind and am looking at the facts.
    This scenario is too closely following the playbook of others such as BLP, Defkalion and to some extent Brilluon. A reactor design is tempted before us and for a period hyped as being soooo close to public release. Estimated release dates are given with such conviction. Then after the release dead line draws near, a new and improved design is discovered! The old design is discarded and “forgotten”, never to be heard from again and the release date is pushed back further so the new design can be perfected. But alas, that date never is realized and the third generation is presented and the cycle continues.
    It is concerning from a business sense as well. Ford built the Model T. It was a good design but not perfect. It was not a Lamborgini nor a Tesla. It was not even as good as a 1940 Mercury. He did not keep improving it and delaying production time after time. His first car was not perfect nor the end of the design evolution. He started production and then continued to refine and improve the car. He used revenues from the sales to improve design and increase production. Elon musk started production and then kept improving designs and is still doing so.
    His first model had issues. The design was improved. The first model is no longer in production, but it DID MAKE PRODUCTION!
    Production will never hit the market if one does not commit to a design and a release date business plan. Very concerning.
    I do not follow BLP much. He has a theory, He has made numerous declarations of “months until production”. He has never delivered and does not seem any closer today to production than several years ago. Most of us here do not give BLP much credence. Same with STEORN. I hate to say it but if Rossi “pulls the plug” on the 1 mw plant because he has a “new and improved” cat that will revolutionize the world and this new design now demands all his time and energy, to me will place him side by side with BLP and STEORN.
    The recent “hints” that the relationship between IH and Rossi either was not what we had hoped or that it is strained and falling apart is of great concern. If the current 1mw plant gets “pushed aside” due to this new design, it will be horribly bad.
    We all want LENR to come to fruition badly. It could be a major benefit to mankind. Even though I do not believe it will solve most of man kind’s problems as some think. Human nature will not be changed by LENR. Despot rulers will still be despot. But LENR could certainly be of great benefit. I want Rossi to succeed. But I cannot throw out my balanced thinking due to my desire for LENR.
    I hope Rossi has a new design. But I want more that he does not stop the 1mw plant nor even reduces the amount of urgency on it’s development. A working LENR device needs to come to the world’s attention sooner than later. It does not have to be the end of all designs. It does not have to be perfect. It simply needs to work above unity.

    • Bob

      Frank,
      I placed 3 blank lines between paragraphs and it still squeezes everything together. I see some other posts with proper formatting. Do you have any idea what the issue is?
      Not a big issue, it is just that I do put in proper sentence structure, but the web site changes my formatting when I hit the submit button. Odd?
      Thanks.

      • ecatworld

        I’m sorry, Bob — but I don’t know what would be causing the spacing issue. It sounds like a disqus bug, but something particular about your system seems to be involved, since most comments are formatted okay.

        • Bob

          Interestingly, in my last post (and this one included)
          I placed hard coded returns (ALT 013) and they seemed to work.
          My regular keyboard return key, while placing the return line while I am composing the post, disappears when I submit.
          The Alt 013 seems to stay.
          No big deal, just interesting.
          -Bob

          • Bob

            Now it made a liar of me! The above post lost the returns even when using the hard coded Alt 013.
            O well!

      • US_Citizen71

        I believe Discus only allows one blank line between blocks of text. At least that has been my experience here and on other websites.

        12 blank lines entered above

    • Gerrit

      I also have the same uneasy feeling that this is already starting to look like never ending research.

      On the other hand the story also fits with an actual working plant and justified parallel research and development.

      Rossi always warns us that the results of the current test “could also be negative”.

      I wonder what he will do when the “test results are negative”. It seems he would just design a better plant and test it for 12 months and repeat that until the end of time.

      I wonder what will happen when the test results are positive. Will we finally get to see an actual plant “opened up for the public” in 2016 ?

      On the science side of the LENR story there have been interesting developments in the past years too, SKINR in 2012, (maybe?) CEES, and Tohoku just a few months ago. But so far no major nor minor breakthrough has been announced.

      What do we have today ?

      • artefact

        re 12 month test:

        August 10th, 2015 at 7:42 AM
        Frederic Maillard:
        Thank you for your suggestion. Surely we are going through an intense
        work of tests before its presentation to the public. What I wanted to
        say is that, differently from what we made for the former models, we
        will not make any public test of it until it will not ready for the
        commercialization. In other words, when it will be exposed to public
        tests it will be already on the shelves.
        All the work of evolution, test, R&D, safety certification will be
        done internally. When we will disclose it, anybody will be able to buy
        it. No more mumbojumbo-tango ( Hey, Thomas Florek: what about writing a
        tango about the mumbojambo of the sceptics? That could be a jingle, when
        the time will come! He,he,he).
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

      • I am astonished by the corruption/collusion/cowardliness of media.
        We had what should be treated as a dozen of informations bombs since 2 years.
        Elforsk support of LENR, Tom Darden, Airbus Group Chief Scientists, Tohoku/MHI, Carl page, Bill Gates, Current Science, and VIP in oxford, and many more that I know 2 financial journal journalists were enthusiastic about…

        I don’t say they will not criticize that, but at least it should be a controversy, full of irrational hope, and irrational insults, like what I see on EmDrive.

        Today beside the insultes of Timo TYY and we the supporters, I mostly see jokes.

      • Gerrit

        Update on CEES

        Infinite Energy reports on ICCF 19: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/NagelICCF19.pdf

        “Another paper, dominantly on materials for LENR, was from the new Center for Emerging Energy Sciences (CEES) at Texas Tech University led by Robert Duncan.
        The lead author was student Tara Scarborough, with Duncan, McKubre and Violante as co-authors.
        One of the current thrusts of the new Center is to be able to correlate images of cathode materials before and after experimental runs. To achieve this, Confocal, Scanning Electron and Atomic Force images at various resolutions are being stitched together. The result is a data set that can be viewed on any level from the macroscopic (centimeter) to the nanoscopic (nanometer) scales. Examples of such images were shown at ICCF19.
        The Center is in the process of acquiring three analytical instruments, a Pfeiffer ASM 340 leak detector for detection of Hand He isotopes, a Jeol GCMate double-focusing mass spectrometer for gas chromatography (GC-MS) and a Quantra Fourier transform ion cyclotron mass spectrometer (FT-ICR). The Center will also have a cryogenic calorimeter for measurement of energy released by explosion of fine wires of hydrided materials.”

        Anybody knows where this paper is available ?

        • Alberonn

          AMEN…

      • Omega Z

        You don’t spend the time Rossi has in a shipping container unless the outlook is promising. He would have already pulled the plug & refocused only on R&D.

        That said, longevity & reliability are a legitimate concern. You don’t want to start large scale production only to find after a period of time you have major issues. Best to disappoint 1 client then many. You could find that no one would want your product in the future even after fixing the issues. Industry needs confidence in their production products

        What happens if the results are negative. To start, a negative result doesn’t mean the Rossi effect isn’t real. It would likely mean additional R&D is needed to make it productive in an industrial setting. Note according to Rossi. the 2 problems he has had with the 250Kw reactor didn’t involve the reactor, but external issues. Engineering.

        What happens if the results are Positive? Excellent Question. A big public News conference isn’t in his best interests. It would greatly benefit his competitors funding. Possibly. They may try to quietly roll this technology out. Tho I doubt it will be quiet for very long. Having products officially used in industry will leak out within a very short period.

    • ecatworld

      See update in the main post above for Rossi’s comment on this.

    • LuFong

      I suspect Rossi wants to pick off all the low lying fruit before releasing his new technology. I do not subscribe to his notion that protecting his basic IP is the best way to develop it. In the meantime it cannot be denied that there are many similarities with scam energy systems and the longer Rossi withholds his technology to more this holds true. The best thing to do is keep expectations low and enjoy the show.

      • Omega Z

        When bringing a totally new product to market, IP is very important to obtain investors willing to put up huge sums of money. Investing isn’t only about profit, but not losing the initial investment. IP’s minimize that Risk…

    • Omega Z

      Legitimate development & R&D have many things in common with a scam. That is the purpose of a scam. To appear legitimate. Rossi has broken to many cardinal rules for this to be a scam. He’s spent way to much time, money, & effort developing the E-cat. And Rossi has broken the greatest cardinal rule of ALL. He has allowed way to many people to have hands on his creation. Something scammers avoid like the plague.

      What you find from those who have worked very closely with Rossi is he is constantly innovating. While they are testing his latest reactor, He has already devised another. From Rossi’s latest posts, I believe he is mostly satisfied with his latest LT-cats tho you will see future improvements as with all new technology after it goes to market.

      The only thing you can accuse Rossi of is that he tends to be overly optimistic on time lines. Something he has admitted himself. If that is a crime, he has plenty of company. Murphy’s law is the culprit.

    • Axil Axil

      In this type of R&D game it is important to have as many eggs as possible in out basket. We have seen many our hopes ripped asunder. Rossi is still there. But it is important to develop new systems from as many places as possible. Rossi does not deserve loyalty. Open source development is the best way to increase the possibility of success to the fullest possible extent.

      • f sedei

        Not always. Open source certainly did not work in 1989 with cold fusion. Instead, the scientific world was sadly set back many years–something which is terribly hard, if ever, to get over and forget.

    • Billy Jackson

      It may not seem like it. but this is moving fairly fast. The internet has given us insight into the research and development side of what is potentially a world changing technology. We are seeing the step by step development, the hopes and dreams of its maker, and the challenges it faces going forward. For a lot of us. this is our first exposure to something that has this level of potential. We want it to be successful and are rooting for Rossi and the e-cat with every bit of news we receive.

      Yet we also must learn that being on the inside of the loop means that we are seeing the slow development and improvement stage necessary to bring a quality and viable product to market. So if you are following daily this is going to seem like a slow process. What most do not understand is that new technologies take years to get out of the labs into a working environment and then just as long to get into production and eventually sales.

      This is not like a new TV or a new IPHONE. the technology base and support structure existed for these items long before they ever became a concept let along the years they spent developing them. The e-cat is an entirely new technology which most don’t understand, there is no support out there for it at this time. Sure they can sell it at your local home depot/hardware store.. but who’s going to install it? who’s going to maintain it? who’s going to supply your local handy man the information he needs (since he’s never seen this thing and has no clue how it works) when you call in the middle of the night? Most would be like.. dude its just a boiler… yea.. and a Lamborghini is just a car.. but i am still not letting bob the Honda mechanic touch it.

      Its easy to sit back and be an arm chair general and say if they did this or that.. we don’t see every aspect or all the behind the scene’s negotiations or struggles. so please be patient and understand its just not as simple as we assume it is.

  • Bob

    🙁
    I am getting a very uneasy feeling about this and please believe me that I am a supporter and WANT this all to be true! But I am also not blind and am looking at the facts.
    This scenario is too closely following the playbook of others such as BLP, Defkalion and to some extent Brilluon. A reactor design is tempted before us and for a period hyped as being soooo close to public release. Estimated release dates are given with such conviction. Then after the release dead line draws near, a new and improved design is discovered! The old design is discarded and “forgotten”, never to be heard from again and the release date is pushed back further so the new design can be perfected. But alas, that date never is realized and the third generation is presented and the cycle continues.
    It is concerning from a business sense as well. Ford built the Model T. It was a good design but not perfect. It was not a Lamborgini nor a Tesla. It was not even as good as a 1940 Mercury. He did not keep improving it and delaying production time after time. His first car was not perfect nor the end of the design evolution. He started production and then continued to refine and improve the car. He used revenues from the sales to improve design and increase production. Elon musk started production and then kept improving designs and is still doing so.
    His first model had issues. The design was improved. The first model is no longer in production, but it DID MAKE PRODUCTION!
    Production will never hit the market if one does not commit to a design and a release date business plan. Very concerning.
    I do not follow BLP much. He has a theory, He has made numerous declarations of “months until production”. He has never delivered and does not seem any closer today to production than several years ago. Most of us here do not give BLP much credence. Same with STEORN. I hate to say it but if Rossi “pulls the plug” on the 1 mw plant because he has a “new and improved” cat that will revolutionize the world and this new design now demands all his time and energy, to me will place him side by side with BLP and STEORN.
    The recent “hints” that the relationship between IH and Rossi either was not what we had hoped or that it is strained and falling apart is of great concern. If the current 1mw plant gets “pushed aside” due to this new design, it will be horribly bad.
    We all want LENR to come to fruition badly. It could be a major benefit to mankind. Even though I do not believe it will solve most of man kind’s problems as some think. Human nature will not be changed by LENR. Despot rulers will still be despot. But LENR could certainly be of great benefit. I want Rossi to succeed. But I cannot throw out my balanced thinking due to my desire for LENR.
    I hope Rossi has a new design. But I want more that he does not stop the 1mw plant nor even reduces the amount of urgency on it’s development. A working LENR device needs to come to the world’s attention sooner than later. It does not have to be the end of all designs. It does not have to be perfect. It simply needs to work above unity.

    • Bob

      Frank,
      I placed 3 blank lines between paragraphs and it still squeezes everything together. I see some other posts with proper formatting. Do you have any idea what the issue is?
      Not a big issue, it is just that I do put in proper sentence structure, but the web site changes my formatting when I hit the submit button. Odd?
      Thanks.

      • Frank Acland

        I’m sorry, Bob — but I don’t know what would be causing the spacing issue. It sounds like a disqus bug, but something particular about your system seems to be involved, since most comments are formatted okay.

        • Bob

          Interestingly, in my last post (and this one included)
          I placed hard coded returns (ALT 013) and they seemed to work.
          My regular keyboard return key, while placing the return line while I am composing the post, disappears when I submit.
          The Alt 013 seems to stay.
          No big deal, just interesting.
          -Bob

          • Bob

            Now it made a liar of me! The above post lost the returns even when using the hard coded Alt 013.
            O well!

      • US_Citizen71

        I believe Discus only allows one blank line between blocks of text. At least that has been my experience here and on other websites.

        12 blank lines entered above

    • Gerrit

      I also have the same uneasy feeling that this is already starting to look like never ending research.

      On the other hand the story also fits with an actual working plant and justified parallel research and development.

      Rossi always warns us that the results of the current test “could also be negative”.

      I wonder what he will do when the “test results are negative”. It seems he would just design a better plant and test it for 12 months and repeat that until the end of time.

      I wonder what will happen when the test results are positive. Will we finally get to see an actual plant “opened up for the public” in 2016 ?

      On the science side of the LENR story there have been interesting developments in the past years too, SKINR in 2012, (maybe?) CEES, and Tohoku just a few months ago. But so far no major nor minor breakthrough has been announced.

      What do we have today ?

      • artefact

        re 12 month test:

        Frederic Maillard
        … Don’t you think it would be more prudent to test in operational conditions this new version for say one year, as the 250 KW module is currently being tested, before going to market ?
        Best regards

        August 10th, 2015 at 7:42 AM
        Frederic Maillard:
        Thank you for your suggestion. Surely we are going through an intense
        work of tests before its presentation to the public. What I wanted to
        say is that, differently from what we made for the former models, we
        will not make any public test of it until it will not ready for the
        commercialization. In other words, when it will be exposed to public
        tests it will be already on the shelves.
        All the work of evolution, test, R&D, safety certification will be
        done internally. When we will disclose it, anybody will be able to buy
        it. No more mumbojumbo-tango ( Hey, Thomas Florek: what about writing a
        tango about the mumbojambo of the sceptics? That could be a jingle, when
        the time will come! He,he,he).
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

      • I am astonished by the corruption/collusion/cowardliness of media.
        We had what should be treated as a dozen of informations bombs since 2 years.
        Elforsk support of LENR, Tom Darden, Airbus Group Chief Scientists, Tohoku/MHI, Carl page, Bill Gates, Current Science, and VIP in oxford, and many more that I know 2 financial journal journalists were enthusiastic about…

        I don’t say they will not criticize that, but at least it should be a controversy, full of irrational hope, and irrational insults, like what I see on EmDrive.

        Today beside the insultes of Timo TYY and we the supporters, I mostly see jokes.

      • Gerrit

        Update on CEES

        Infinite Energy reports on ICCF 19: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/NagelICCF19.pdf

        “Another paper, dominantly on materials for LENR, was from the new Center for Emerging Energy Sciences (CEES) at Texas Tech University led by Robert Duncan.
        The lead author was student Tara Scarborough, with Duncan, McKubre and Violante as co-authors.
        One of the current thrusts of the new Center is to be able to correlate images of cathode materials before and after experimental runs. To achieve this, Confocal, Scanning Electron and Atomic Force images at various resolutions are being stitched together. The result is a data set that can be viewed on any level from the macroscopic (centimeter) to the nanoscopic (nanometer) scales. Examples of such images were shown at ICCF19.
        The Center is in the process of acquiring three analytical instruments, a Pfeiffer ASM 340 leak detector for detection of H and He isotopes, a Jeol GCMate double-focusing mass spectrometer for gas chromatography (GC-MS) and a Quantra Fourier transform ion cyclotron mass spectrometer (FT-ICR). The Center will also have a cryogenic calorimeter for measurement of energy released by explosion of fine wires of hydrided materials.”

        Here is a photo of the paper http://iccf19.com/media/material/Foto/Posters/Posters18.jpg

      • Omega Z

        You don’t spend the time Rossi has in a shipping container unless the outlook is promising. He would have already pulled the plug & refocused only on R&D.

        That said, longevity & reliability are a legitimate concern. You don’t want to start large scale production only to find after a period of time you have major issues. Best to disappoint 1 client then many. You could find that no one would want your product in the future even after fixing the issues. Industry needs confidence in their production products

        What happens if the results are negative. To start, a negative result doesn’t mean the Rossi effect isn’t real. It would likely mean additional R&D is needed to make it productive in an industrial setting. Note according to Rossi. the 2 problems he has had with the 250Kw reactor didn’t involve the reactor, but external issues. Engineering.

        What happens if the results are Positive? Excellent Question. A big public News conference isn’t in his best interests. It would greatly benefit his competitors funding. Possibly. They may try to quietly roll this technology out. Tho I doubt it will be quiet for very long. Having products officially used in industry will leak out within a very short period.

    • Kneebiter

      Duke Nukem Forever!
      Development of that video game was a similar story. Continuous upgrades and non-delivery until the company went bankrupt.

      • Omega Z

        Duke Nukem was actually a marketed product. With new additions your always at risk of being outpaced by competitors where you may feel your latest isn’t good enough for release.

    • Frank Acland

      See update in the main post above for Rossi’s comment on this.

    • f sedei

      I don’t believe Rossi is purposely misleading us with a scientific breakthrough “striptease”. But, he is so advanced over others in the LENR chase that it seems unlikely he will be surpassed in production efforts. I am anxious too, but maybe he is being kind allowing us, his ardent followers, occasional progress updates. Patience = suspense + fun. Sit back and enjoy.

    • Omega Z

      Legitimate development & R&D have many things in common with a scam. That is the purpose of a scam. To appear legitimate. Rossi has broken to many cardinal rules for this to be a scam. He’s spent way to much time, money, & effort developing the E-cat. And Rossi has broken the greatest cardinal rule of ALL. He has allowed way to many people to have hands on his creation. Something scammers avoid like the plague.

      What you find from those who have worked very closely with Rossi is he is constantly innovating. While they are testing his latest reactor, He has already devised another. From Rossi’s latest posts, I believe he is mostly satisfied with his latest LT-cats tho you will see future improvements as with all new technology after it goes to market.

      The only thing you can accuse Rossi of is that he tends to be overly optimistic on time lines. Something he has admitted himself. If that is a crime, he has plenty of company. Murphy’s law is the culprit.

    • Axil Axil

      In this type of R&D game it is important to have as many eggs as possible in out basket. We have seen many our hopes ripped asunder. Rossi is still there. But it is important to develop new systems from as many places as possible. Rossi does not deserve loyalty. Open source development is the best way to increase the possibility of success to the fullest possible extent.

      • f sedei

        Not always. Open source certainly did not work in 1989 with cold fusion. Instead, the scientific world was sadly set back many years–something which is terribly hard, if ever, to get over and forget.

    • Billy Jackson

      It may not seem like it. but this is moving fairly fast. The internet has given us insight into the research and development side of what is potentially a world changing technology. We are seeing the step by step development, the hopes and dreams of its maker, and the challenges it faces going forward. For a lot of us. this is our first exposure to something that has this level of potential. We want it to be successful and are rooting for Rossi and the e-cat with every bit of news we receive.

      Yet we also must learn that being on the inside of the loop means that we are seeing the slow development and improvement stage necessary to bring a quality and viable product to market. So if you are following daily this is going to seem like a slow process. What most do not understand is that new technologies take years to get out of the labs into a working environment and then just as long to get into production and eventually sales.

      This is not like a new TV or a new IPHONE. the technology base and support structure existed for these items long before they ever became a concept let along the years they spent developing them. The e-cat is an entirely new technology which most don’t understand, there is no support out there for it at this time. Sure they can sell it at your local home depot/hardware store.. but who’s going to install it? who’s going to maintain it? who’s going to supply your local handy man the information he needs (since he’s never seen this thing and has no clue how it works) when you call in the middle of the night? Most would be like.. dude its just a boiler… yea.. and a Lamborghini is just a car.. but i am still not letting bob the Honda mechanic touch it.

      Its easy to sit back and be an arm chair general and say if they did this or that.. we don’t see every aspect or all the behind the scene’s negotiations or struggles. so please be patient and understand its just not as simple as we assume it is.

  • artefact

    The treasures hidden in the “whole new field of physics” are slowly digged out of the cave
    which was declared a no go area and covered by concrete.
    Some very promising treasure chests are still marked by a strange F9 sign though 🙂

  • artefact

    Dear Andrea,
    Would a significant technological breakthrough with the Hot Cat, like the one you have described (F9) mean that your low temperature technology you are using with the 1 MW plant would be obsolete?
    Would your plans to commercialize with your low temperature E-Cats be put on hold or stopped if this Hot Cat breakthrough is confirmed?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 8:20 AM
    Frank Acland:
    Absolutely not: the low temperature E-Cats have a totally different kind of employment that with the Hot Cat should not be possible.
    The new Hot Cat will affect the domestic and totaly different kinds of application, while they are not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution, which is the market sector of the 1MW low temp E-Cat.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    Frank Acland
    August 10th, 2015 at 8:00 AM

    • Private Citizen

      Rossi: ” What I wanted to say is that, differently from what we made for the former models, we will not make any public test of it until it will not ready for the commercialization. In other words, when it will be exposed to public tests it will be already on the shelves. All the work of evolution, test, R&D, safety certification will be done internally. When we will disclose it, anybody will be able to buy it.”

      Anyone care to estimate the time frame involved with certifying and manufacturing an entirely new product? We pinheads might continue counting dancing angels for some time here, mumbojumbo-tango style.

      • Ged

        Year or four, depending on regulations and government overhead. Also depends on where they are in the cycle right now–could be a lot is already done since he mentions October.

        • Stephen Taylor

          The most discouraging news of the year has been the lack of even modest success to replicate Parkhomov. If only someone can make a reliable reactor of even 1+ COP then progress can be hoped for and worked toward. Until this is achieved we have nothing. How are you replicators coming along in your works? Please give us something, any news is like water for the parched desert traveler.

      • Omega Z

        PC

        If the Lt-cats are on the market, Then what follows becomes less urgent.
        Once we have an incontrovertible product on the market, we know future advances will follow & a large increase in R&D will take place internationally.

        I believe it will take decades for society to transition, It is a huge task. All that is really important is that the 1st one makes it to market. Until then, No transition can even begin.

  • artefact

    Frank Acland
    August 10th, 2015 at 8:00 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    Would a significant technological breakthrough with the Hot Cat, like the one you have described (F9) mean that your low temperature technology you are using with the 1 MW plant would be obsolete?
    Would your plans to commercialize with your low temperature E-Cats be put on hold or stopped if this Hot Cat breakthrough is confirmed?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 8:20 AM
    Frank Acland:
    Absolutely not: the low temperature E-Cats have a totally different kind of employment that with the Hot Cat should not be possible.
    The new Hot Cat will affect the domestic and totaly different kinds of application, while they are not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution, which is the market sector of the 1MW low temp E-Cat.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Bob K

    Am I just dreaming all of this?

  • Gunnar Lindberg

    So far it is nothing more than mumbojumbo-tango from Andrea Rossi. Why dont he just shut up, complete his testing and put his reactor on the market?

    • clovis ray

      That would not very smart, with all things it takes time, and lots of testing, in order to have a good product. we here at e-cat world, love hearing about his great invention,
      All, the replicators, await any new hint, they might obtain from him, we will all know soon enough, Dr, R ossi is a good man, and he is highly respected and liked here on ECW, get your head out of the sand, and think positive, what can you lose,?

      • psi2u2

        Thank you, clovis, for clarifying that. I would add that the off-color, highly emotional language of “mumbo jumbo-tango” (complete with its compounded appeals to cultural prejudice of one kind or another), phrased in such a rhetorical question, either indicates a newbie or someone with an axe to grind – I don’t profess to know which.

        • Uncle Bob

          The reference to “mumbo jumbo-tango” is a direct quote from what Mr. Rossi used in his blog when he said he wasn’t going to bother with all the “mumbo jumbo-tango” involved with a demonstration of the new Curried-cat. He said he would be going straight to production.

          I would be really impressed with this but it has strong echos of the original and very similar proclamations in 2011, along the lines of having products ready for market.
          “We are not making idle chatterings. We are making products”.

          • psi2u2

            It sounds more credible from him . He is working. He has no obligation to tell anyone anything.

        • clovis ray

          yep,

  • fusionrudy

    Interesting article by Bill Gates:
    We Need Clean-Energy Innovation, and Lots of It
    http://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/Energy-Innovation?WT.mc_id=08_08_2015_EnergyIntro_BG-TW_&WT.tsrc=BGTW

    Not a word about his visit to the Italian LENR labs !

    • mcloki

      He only mentioned ideas that have made it out of the lab. His nuclear initiative has been around for years. I can see him being cautious mentioning LENR.

    • Omega Z

      Yes, But note that since his visit to the Italian LENR labs, He has announced a personal contribution of 2 Billion$ for new energy R&D. This is not money from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation but directly from his own pocket.

      Given that the ENEA was fishing for funding, I would expect at least some of this went to them. However, it would be nice if that could be confirmed. The time interval between that visit & his contribution would be about right.

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi: ” What I wanted to say is that, differently from what we made for the former models, we will not make any public test of it until it will not ready for the commercialization. In other words, when it will be exposed to public tests it will be already on the shelves. All the work of evolution, test, R&D, safety certification will be done internally. When we will disclose it, anybody will be able to buy it.”

    Anyone care to estimate the time frame involved with certifying and manufacturing an entirely new product? We pinheads might continue counting dancing angels for some time here, dancing the mumbojumbo-tango.

    • Ged

      Year or four, depending on regulations and government overhead. Also depends on where they are in the cycle right now–could be a lot is already done since he mentions October.

    • Omega Z

      PC

      If the Lt-cats are on the market, Then what follows becomes less urgent.
      Once we have an incontrovertible product on the market, we know future advances will follow & a large increase in R&D will take place internationally.

      I believe it will take decades for society to transition, It is a huge task. All that is really important is that the 1st one makes it to market. Until then, No transition can even begin.

  • LilyLover

    More CO2, more plants. Yay!! People kill people, so, people die. World food production > 130% of need. Redistribution immorality keeps ~15% hungry. Stone-hearted people make wars and you accuse Rossi of lethargy? Oil wars are the last ditch efforts of the dying parasites to profit off of human misery.
    If you understand his lifestyle, to him money doesn’t matter as much – to award the entire humanity with next to free energy is his goal – and he is remarkably on track.
    To undo what the church did to Galileo causing centuries of dark-age is a tough task to undo within a decade.

  • bob

    Great to hear that the 1mw plant plan will be unaffected and will progress as hoped!

    And I hope that IH will have an announcement at some time that will help us understand the relationship with Rossi if not the timing and project schedule of production. That would be a real boost!

    Concerning this new design :

    “The new Hot Cat will affect the domestic and totaly different kinds of application, while they are not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution, which is the market sector of the 1MW low temp E-Cat.”

    It seems odd, but Rossi is stating that the new design is not applicable to industrial purpose. Not being familiar with “indoneous”, I find it means “appropriate; fit; suitable”. This would indicate that the new design most likely does not have the ability to produce enough watts per hour for industry. What else could the issue be?
    It would be interesting to know what the limit is? If suitable for a home, direct electricity production would still have to be significant. Then up scaling to just 10 units would provide power to many industrial facilities that do not use major amounts of electricity. I cannot think of any situation where an slightly upscaled domestic application would not be utilized in commercial industry of a modest scale. The safety and certification issues (as Rossi has stated many times) are much more obtainable for industry than domestic. He even stated that the industrial route was the only likely way to obtain a domestic certification. That reliable, safe history in industrial use would set the precedent for domestic certification.
    I would be interested in what others think might keep the new design from being idoneous for industry?

    • Ged

      Could be it isn’t used to make steam (so not as useful for direct heating/industry) and instead is making electricity somehow (couples to a Stirling engine?). Could also be it is a small, single unit useful for domestic home heating, but too small for centralized, such as you hypothesized.

    • Omega Z

      This is merely intended as an example as we know little of whats happening internally.

      I would guess if it produces electrons that generates or is converted to heat, by stripping those excess electrons from the reactor leaving only enough to sustain the reaction, you have no excess heat for other uses.

      • Axil Axil

        What may be happening is that there is less heat produced in the hot cat and more electrons. For example, the Papp engine ran cold but produced plasma expansion and excess electrons. LENR seems to demonstrate various way that energy can be formatted.

        • Omega Z

          Note that Rossi said it was capable of maintaining higher temps.

          • Axil Axil

            Higher temperatures compared to what: the Hot cat or the E Cat?

          • ecatworld

            Compared to the earlier Hot Cat (see in post above)

          • Bob Greenyer

            You can light an average european house with 100-150Ws of LEDs these days – You can get a few solar panels and a battery to run them – not really a reason to hold back a Minimum Viable Product or even to get that excited about it, IMPO.

            Heating, cooking and cooling are the really demanding uses of power in a home.

            I’d like to see a LENR module that drops into AMPLE space inside a solid fuel AGA for instance – oven, cooking, heating and hot water.

            http://www.agaliving.com/complementary-collection/rayburn

          • ecatworld

            I like the idea of an LENR AGA.

          • Stephen

            Hmmm I wonder if it could do microwave and/or water purifying too. That would be some AGA.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Of course it could do water purifying, microwave, hmmm.

          • Omega Z

            Building an underground home can easily eliminate 75% of ones energy use. You merely need to condition the fresh air intake some of which can be accomplished with a simple exchanger with the exhaust air.. Light can even be piped in with tube lighting.(Not to be confused with skylight technology)

            The fresh air circulation can easily be done with a 10 watt fan/blower system.
            It’s My opinion that we need to work on both ends. Cheaper energy with reduced need using efficient products. LED Lights, Video screens, Refrigeration Etc,,,

            Just because you come up with cheap efficient plentiful energy is no excuse to waste it. The Previous generation already did that. As In- Coal & Gas is to cheap to justify insulation. Lets not repeat history. Learn from It…

          • Bob

            ecat X —– “I want to believe!” from the “X files” tv show!
            .
            I really hope this comes to fruition in the time frame he states, but I am quite perplexed.
            Rossi’s own words stated that in 2012 he was ready to mass produce in his “robotized” factory, thousands of home eCats for Home Depot. But then that date was missed because certification could not be gained.
            .
            He then stated that domestic eCats would not be available until safety certification and the only way to do that was via the industrial road. Make industrial units that would provide a history of safety for the domestic units to be certified.
            .
            Now it appears he is stating that he will go into mass production with home / domestic units before the release of 1mw industrial units? I am not sure what has changed.
            .
            The majority of Rossi’s announcements usually come true, relating to tests etc. The results are normally quite different than what is often expected or perceived. A major partner, which many thought might be GE, Seimans, etc. turns out to be Industrial Heat. A company that was solely created for the eCat, with no history nor even employees. Hardly a major company, but not insignificant in itself. Touted certification did become reality, but it was only a certification stating that a piece of equipment did not produce harmful effects. It did not certify that it was even operational, much less over unity. Test results by independent, third party that would be published in a journal, while I believe the tests were significant, they were only put on Arvix, not a published journal. The first test was not really independent, while the second one was much more so. In any case, questions about these tests have been answered by none of the testers.
            .
            So my point is, regarding some posts, Rossi has been very good about producing the goods. Even if some state that what he said and what he delivered is quite different. However regarding production dates, factories and customers, he has been batting zero. Only two units have been reported sold. One unconfirmed to the military (Navy?) and one to a secret customer, which almost certainly is Darden himself, yet still unconfirmed. In any case, we know really nothing about sales or customers. At one time 13 units were sold, but that seems to have not been correct.
            .
            As others have posted, I am not holding my breath for a domestic unit of any type within the next 5 years. I had was excited in 2012, but I have learned my lesson. If I am wrong, I will be exuberant. If I am right, I will now not be disappointed because I thought as such. If Darden / IH makes any type of positive announcement within the next few months, my opinion could be dramatically changed. At present their silence is deafening!
            .
            Good luck Dr. Rossi. God speed and I wish you the most success as it will surely be a boon to us all. However, while I really would like the flying car promised in the 1950’s, I am still waiting on that along with an eCat!

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I think many are miss reading Rossi here. He says “I hope so”.
            You should be aware of how such people tend to think about things.

            If we ask Rossi do you hope that the e-cat could be on
            sale next week, he would answer a resounding yes, I hope for.

            So the fact that one desires and “hopes” for such an
            event has VERY little meaning in terms of such an event being practical.

            So when someone says they “hope” they are much meaning
            they wish for, but including the word “hope” really amounts to that like
            everyone here, we wish, and we hope and we “want for” a consumer e-cat next
            year.

            Everyone here hopes for and wish for an e-cat next year
            (and so does Rossi). Honesty, I willing to bet WE ALL HOPE for a consumer e-cat
            next year! So yes, we do – so does Rossi.

            However such a statement from a practical point of view
            means very little. Besides, such home units would need a year or two of testing
            BEFORE going into production.

            I sure everyone is aware that if a design flaw or issue
            were to occur with such a consumer device (just like for the auto industry)
            then such a large re-call would not only damage the reputation of a company,
            but also often can bankrupt a company.

            In 2007 1 million Easy-Bake ovens were recalled due to
            children being burned (and one child requiring a partial amputation of a finger
            being badly burned). And that is a toy baking oven and not a home nuclear
            reactor!

            So anyone here with a “basic” functioning brain and an IQ
            over that of a 6 year old (and that includes Rossi) VERY WELL understands these
            basic types of issues. In fact Rossi likely has HUGE difficulty grasping why such
            issues are not obvious to a 6 year old let alone adults asking such questions! Rossi
            thus gives his reading public FAR more credit in terms of what he assumes 6
            year old child would know without question!

            And as I pointed out large outlays of capital are
            required for any kind of mass manufacturing. And toss in the issue of being a
            consumer product? Well then we have a VERY DIFFERENT ball game – safety issues
            are very important!

            However, to be fair and not be someone trying to throw
            cold water on the fun party here? One can reasonable admit that Rossi is “planning”
            and thinking and hoping to build mass produced LENR devices – and clearly Rossi
            wants this to occur ASAP. And clearly everyone (including Rossi) hopes for next year, but it not a practical view – only a hope based one.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Omega Z

            “I think many are miss reading Rossi here.”

            Agreed. It happens very often. People let their imagination carry them away.
            I agree with you full post.

          • Kendall Evans

            I would like to make a comment for the benefit of Stephen Taylor and other advocates of nuclear power using fission. He recommends fourth-generation fission reactors as an interim solution. Unless these 4th generation reactors produce virtually no long-term waste, they are a terrible solution. If we build lots of these, it will take off the pressure to develop clean energy, which seems to be progressing reasonably well. No one wants to store the long term waste, which lasts thousands of years. Far from being a “clean” energy source, nuclear is the dirtiest source of electricity available. Even without Chernobyl, 3-mile island, Fukushima, and the financial disaster at San Onofre, there is still the storage problem. No civilization on Earth has lasted as long at the radioactive problem would last.

          • wpj

            I will have to disagree on some of this.

            There is a lot of effort to clean up all the radioactive waste which comes from these reactors. Once you have recycled the Uranium and plutonium then there is a few percent of very “hot” material with a half life of 10,000 years+. However, if you separate out the lanthanides and actinides, you can then bombard with neutrons and the half life is reduced to about 30 years.

            This is not a cheap process (especially given the prices that the companies are paying for the required chemicals- albeit on a small lab scale presently) but they are being pro-active and doing the research BEFORE the new reactors are being built.

          • Stephen Taylor

            With the right choices modern fission reduces the wastestream by a factor of 10 and increases the fuel supply into the +thousand year time frame. The volume of total waste is football stadium size which should be manageable. The mortality rate associated with fission energy is much lower than other energy sources. Not an ideal solution but available and can be very big in short time if politics change.
            More interesting for some is aneutronic fusion on small platform such as Helion Energy and others. These sadly are not yet available. Perhaps battery technology and solar conversion efficiency can help but I don’t think the size can be enough to power China, India, and then Africa and all of the rapidly developing world. The need is so huge it is difficult to comprehend. Now we need no burning things to generate this energy.
            If our society can survive the many challenges of the next quarter century we may thrive.

        • Uncle Bob

          Are you suggesting the Papp engine actually works?

          • Axil Axil

            Yes, it was tested by the US patent office using a third party contractor. When it passed the Dyno test it was awarded a patent which was then awarded the best patent of the year by the patent office. Did you not know this?

    • TomR

      I think that Andrea has possibly been given the go signal on the domestic unit by someone or some group. The October mention for a possible safety certification is great news. If it has been given the fast track treatment things might happen real fast.

  • bob

    Great to hear that the 1mw plant plan will be unaffected and will progress as hoped!

    And I hope that IH will have an announcement at some time that will help us understand the relationship with Rossi if not the timing and project schedule of production. That would be a real boost!

    Concerning this new design :

    “The new Hot Cat will affect the domestic and totaly different kinds of application, while they are not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution, which is the market sector of the 1MW low temp E-Cat.”

    It seems odd, but Rossi is stating that the new design is not applicable to industrial purpose. Not being familiar with “indoneous”, I find it means “appropriate; fit; suitable”. This would indicate that the new design most likely does not have the ability to produce enough watts per hour for industry. What else could the issue be?
    It would be interesting to know what the limit is? If suitable for a home, direct electricity production would still have to be significant. Then up scaling to just 10 units would provide power to many industrial facilities that do not use major amounts of electricity. I cannot think of any situation where an slightly upscaled domestic application would not be utilized in commercial industry of a modest scale. The safety and certification issues (as Rossi has stated many times) are much more obtainable for industry than domestic. He even stated that the industrial route was the only likely way to obtain a domestic certification. That reliable, safe history in industrial use would set the precedent for domestic certification.
    I would be interested in what others think might keep the new design from being idoneous for industry?

    • Ged

      Could be it isn’t used to make steam (so not as useful for centralized heating/industry) and instead is making electricity somehow (couples to a Stirling engine?). Could also be it is a small, single unit useful for domestic home heating, but too small for centralized, such as you hypothesized.

    • Omega Z

      This is merely intended as an example as we know little of whats happening internally.

      I would guess if it produces electrons that generates or is converted to heat, by stripping those excess electrons from the reactor leaving only enough to sustain the reaction, you have no excess heat for other uses.

      • Axil Axil

        What may be happening is that there is less heat produced in the hot cat and more electrons. For example, the Papp engine ran cold but produced plasma expansion and excess electrons. LENR seems to demonstrate various way that energy can be formatted.

        • Omega Z

          Note that Rossi said it was capable of maintaining higher temps.

          • Axil Axil

            Higher temperatures compared to what: the Hot cat or the E Cat?

          • Frank Acland

            Compared to the earlier Hot Cat (see in post above)

        • Uncle Bob

          Are you suggesting the Papp engine actually works?

          • Axil Axil

            Yes, it was tested by the US patent office using a third party contractor. When it passed the Dyno test it was awarded a patent which was then awarded the best patent of the year by the patent office. Did you not know this?

    • TomR

      I think that Andrea has possibly been given the go signal on the domestic unit by someone or some group. The October mention for a possible safety certification is great news. If it has been given the fast track treatment things might happen real fast.

  • Warthog

    Actually, Dr. MADAME Curie was Polish. Dr MONSIEUR Curie was indeed French.

  • artefact

    Frank Acland
    August 10th, 2015 at 11:47 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    You write the new Hot Cat is “not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution”. Does this mean it is not suitable for generating electricity via steam turbines?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 12:44 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Yes, among other things.
    The 1MW E-Cat are two totally different things for totally different duties.
    Besides, the 1 MW E-Cat is close to complete the R&D cycle, while the new Hot Cat is just beginning with it.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    • Jarea1

      I don’t know if i get his point. Is he answering “Yes” to the question. “Does this mean it (the Hot Cat) is NOT suitable for generating electricity via steam turbines?”
      Why is it not possible for generating electricity if the Hot Cat has higher temperatures and bigger COP?
      Can somebody answer this?
      Thanks

      • artefact

        Maybe its design to generate electricity does not leave much room for the heat transfer to a steam turbine…

        • mcloki

          Or it generates Electricity directly.

          • artefact

            Thats what I ment. I think it is clear that it does produce it directly. It seems also like it is not easy or possible to use the heat in addition to that via a sterling engine or similar.

      • The update answer doesn’t sound like Rossi. Perhaps some PR person is polishing the answer.

  • artefact

    Frank Acland
    August 10th, 2015 at 11:47 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    You write the new Hot Cat is “not idoneous for industrial applications or centralized heat distribution”. Does this mean it is not suitable for generating electricity via steam turbines?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2015 at 12:44 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Yes, among other things.
    The 1MW E-Cat are two totally different things for totally different duties.
    Besides, the 1 MW E-Cat is close to complete the R&D cycle, while the new Hot Cat is just beginning with it.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    • Uncle Bob

      Now that the 1MW e-cat has been run for six months in the current test, Mr. Rossi must have a very good idea of what the COP is so far.
      Surely this would have been calculated often.

      I can well appreciate that he is allowing for some major fault later in the test when he says “the results could be positive or negative”, but by now the COP for normal operation should be well established.
      Has anyone managed to prompt a response on this matter?

    • Jarea

      I don’t know if i get his point. Is he answering “Yes” to the question. “Does this mean it (the Hot Cat) is NOT suitable for generating electricity via steam turbines?”
      Why is it not possible for generating electricity if the Hot Cat has higher temperatures and bigger COP?
      Can somebody answer this?
      Thanks

      • artefact

        Maybe its design to generate electricity does not leave much room for the heat transfer to a steam turbine…

        • mcloki

          Or it generates Electricity directly.

          • artefact

            Thats what I ment. I think it is clear that it does produce it directly. It seems also like it is not easy or possible to use the heat in addition to that via a sterling engine or similar.

  • Fyodor

    Whatever the new breakthrough it would seem that it’ll be a while before there is something that works reliably enough that it can be sold to industry, let alone to the customer.

    • ecatworld

      Sure, this has been running for only a day or so. The interesting thing to me is that Rossi’s comment below (in artefact’s post) suggests that the new Hot Cat is not suitable for industrial use — domestic only.

      • Fyodor

        I have to assume that he means for the type of use he’s talking about the types of lower temperature industrial heating applications for which he is using the warm-cat. He’s also said that the Hot-Cat would be used for electricity generation and it was implausible to generate electricity in the home.

        • US_Citizen71

          One has to remember computers were implausible for use in the home in 1976 but that quickly changed. As for the Hot-Cat not being suitable for low temp applications, that makes sense when you consider the efficiency of heat transfer drops the greater the difference is between the hot and cold sides.

          • Mike the Engineer

            Umm, US_Citizen71, the efficiency of heat transfer *increases* the greater the “delta T”, that is the greater the difference between hot and cold.

            It is difficult for me to understand how a hot cat could not be suitable for industrial utilization. If it were a “warm cat” or a “lukewarm cat” then I would understand. In the meantime, still waiting for *something* to come out.

      • Omega Z

        Frank
        I think he was just saying it was not of use as a Industrial heat source.
        It’s possible whatever they are tapping into to generate electricity negates any usable excess heat.

      • wpj

        Surely the implication is that this beast (whatever its name) can be switched on and off fairly rapidly which is what would make it suitable for domestic use.

        The current warm cats are working continuous operation mode as it is a slow on/off process.

    • Patrick Ellul

      From know on it shall be referred to as “E-Cat X”, says Rossi.

  • Fyodor

    Whatever the new breakthrough it would seem that it’ll be a while before there is something that works reliably enough that it can be sold to industry, let alone to the customer.

    • Frank Acland

      Sure, this has been running for only a day or so. The interesting thing to me is that Rossi’s comment below (in artefact’s post) suggests that the new Hot Cat is not suitable for industrial use — domestic only.

      • Fyodor

        I have to assume that he means for the type of use he’s talking about the types of lower temperature industrial heating applications for which he is using the warm-cat. He’s also said that the Hot-Cat would be used for electricity generation and it was implausible to generate electricity in the home.

        • US_Citizen71

          One has to remember computers were implausible for use in the home in 1976 but that quickly changed. As for the Hot-Cat not being suitable for low temp applications, that makes sense when you consider the efficiency of heat transfer drops the greater the difference is between the hot and cold sides.

          • Mike the Engineer

            Umm, US_Citizen71, the efficiency of heat transfer *increases* the greater the “delta T”, that is the greater the difference between hot and cold.

            It is difficult for me to understand how a hot cat could not be suitable for industrial utilization. If it were a “warm cat” or a “lukewarm cat” then I would understand. In the meantime, still waiting for *something* to come out.

      • Omega Z

        Frank
        I think he was just saying it was not of use as a Industrial heat source.
        It’s possible whatever they are tapping into to generate electricity negates any usable excess heat.

      • wpj

        Surely the implication is that this beast (whatever its name) can be switched on and off fairly rapidly which is what would make it suitable for domestic use.

        The current warm cats are working continuous operation mode as it is a slow on/off process.

  • Sounds quite optimistic. He didn’t say “could be positive could be negative”.

    • ecatworld

      Hi Barry,

      He did say F9, though. Which is shorthand for that.

  • Sounds quite optimistic. He didn’t say “could be positive could be negative”.

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Barry,

      He did say F9, though. Which is shorthand for that.

  • Omega Z

    Duke Nukem was actually a marketed product. With new additions your always at risk of being outpaced by competitors where you may feel your latest isn’t good enough for release.

  • clovis ray

    Hey guys, just picked this one up on amazon, HOW TO FLY A HORSE and it’s great,
    The stories reveal a pattern for how humans make new things, one that is both encouraging and challenging. The encouraging part is that everyone can create, and we can show that fairly conclusively. The challenging part is that there is no magic moment of creation. Creators spend almost all their time creating, persevering despite doubt, failure, ridicule, and rejection until they succeed in making something new and useful. There are no tricks, shortcuts, or get-creative-quick schemes. The process is ordinary, even if the outcome is not. Creating is not magic but work.

    Ashton, Kevin (2015-01-20). How to Fly a Horse: The Secret History of Creation, Invention, and Discovery (Kindle Locations 118-122). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

  • clovis ray

    Hey guys, just picked this one up on amazon, HOW TO FLY A HORSE and it’s great,
    The stories reveal a pattern for how humans make new things, one that is both encouraging and challenging. The encouraging part is that everyone can create, and we can show that fairly conclusively. The challenging part is that there is no magic moment of creation. Creators spend almost all their time creating, persevering despite doubt, failure, ridicule, and rejection until they succeed in making something new and useful. There are no tricks, shortcuts, or get-creative-quick schemes. The process is ordinary, even if the outcome is not. Creating is not magic but work.

    Ashton, Kevin (2015-01-20). How to Fly a Horse: The Secret History of Creation, Invention, and Discovery (Kindle Locations 118-122). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

  • ecatworld

    I think we should start using new terminology for this new thing. I asked the following:

    Is it correct to now make a distinction between the ‘traditional’ Hot Cat and the “M.me Curie”?

    The ‘traditional’ Hot Cat could be useful for industrial application, including driving steam turbines?

    The “M.me Curie”, something new, different, not industrial?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Andrea Rossi

    August 10th, 2015 at 7:11 PM

    Frank Acland:
    Yes, it is correct.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Axil Axil

      I would like to know if the cat and mouse SSM system still apples to “M.me Curie”. Does anyone know that?

      • Fyodor

        Putting all the comments together it sounds like it will do useful direct energy production at a scale that could be used in homes.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Well, this is all fine, but how much trouble would it be to just hook one up to a water circulator and measure the input and output with mass balance? Be done with speculation and fantasy! Prove it! It would be so easy if it were true!

          • Observer

            The E-Cat X produces electricity (directly). He has made the relevant measurements, and has rebuilt the unit (multiple times) when components fail. Rossi is not living in a world of speculation and fantasy, YOU are. The E-Cat X has to prove something to Rossi. Rossi does not have to prove ANYTHING to you. Rossi’s end game is a viable product, not acceptance from the peanut gallery (US).

          • Stephen Taylor

            Right.

          • Jarea1

            Really, do you really think that he only has the ecat for himself?.he has a lot of things to prove. Besides,that is good because he has the first LENR product. The thing is that he already said that the market next year will proove he is right. So step by step and patience

          • I have not read that E-cat X was producing electricity “directly”.
            as I understand it is more like a CHP.
            Rossi just works scientifically on direct conversion, but it seems mostly based on tiny observes anomalies…

            Maybe one day EM field harnessing, betavoltaic, will allow direct conversion..
            Today as he says “Carnot Cycle” seems the best way.

            note that as I read him, “Carnot Cycle” is any thermodynamic cycle, like Carnot (Stirling), Brayton, rankine… as exploit turbines and piston engines, but also TEG and thermoacoustic engines.

          • bachcole

            I see that you have a need to have it proven. However, Rossi doesn’t even know you and doesn’t care what your needs are.

            I would imagine that Rossi may be thinking along the lines that I am: Let’s make a revolution in thought and spring this baby on the academic elites fully matured, like Venus was born.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Ok, a bit confusing. Does this mean the 4- 250kw reactors are
      low temp ones then?

      I was under the impression that the 4 – 250kw reactors that
      replaced the 50+ little guys were hot-cats.

      I mean, if the plant now is not using low temp e-cats,
      then why speak of using low temp cats at all? I had assumed that the new “tigers”
      as Rossi calls them were hot-cats? (I thus must assume they are low temp cats?

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • ecatworld

        Yes, Rossi has always said these are low temperature reactors. Low temp tigers!

        • R101

          I think Cool-Cats is a better term 😉

          • Steve Kirkland

            Ummm… it obviously a “House-Cat”…

  • Frank Acland

    I think we should start using new terminology for this new thing. I asked the following:

    Is it correct to now make a distinction between the ‘traditional’ Hot Cat and the “M.me Curie”?

    The ‘traditional’ Hot Cat could be useful for industrial application, including driving steam turbines?

    The “M.me Curie”, something new, different, not industrial?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Andrea Rossi

    August 10th, 2015 at 7:11 PM

    Frank Acland:
    Yes, it is correct.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Axil Axil

      I would like to know if the cat and mouse SSM system still apples to “M.me Curie”. Does anyone know that?

    • Uncle Bob

      What a great idea.
      I think it should be called the Magi-cat because it sounds like magic.
      Or how about the Curried-cat in keeping with M.me Curie.
      Well,. maybe not. Maybe just stick with the Magi-cat

      • PappyYokum

        Magnificat.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Ok, a bit confusing. Does this mean the 4- 250kw reactors are
      low temp ones then?

      I was under the impression that the 4 – 250kw reactors that
      replaced the 50+ little guys were hot-cats.

      I mean, if the plant now is not using low temp e-cats,
      then why speak of using low temp cats at all? I had assumed that the new “tigers”
      as Rossi calls them were hot-cats? (I thus must assume they are low temp cats?

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Frank Acland

        Yes, Rossi has always said these are low temperature reactors. Low temp tigers!

        • R101

          I think Cool-Cats is a better term 😉

          • Steve Kirkland

            Ummm… it’s obviously a “House-Cat”…

  • Fyodor

    Putting all the comments together it sounds like it will do useful direct energy production at a scale that could be used in homes.

  • Mary Essel

    Brayton cycle co2 closed loop turbine sounds like a good match with M.me Curie to me. Scientific America has a recent article about the 40 million dollar funding for a large scale system.

    • artefact

      If it produces enough direct electricity it is not necessary. It would be good for the normal hot cat I guess.

  • artefact

    If it produces enough direct electricity it is not necessary. It would be good for the normal hot cat I guess.

  • GreenWin

    We feel your frustration. Were you an investor in E-Cat tech you’d have a reasonable gripe. But if you are an E-Cat investor you’d have told us by now. So, try to relax and let the Doc work at his own pace. No amount of sideline coaching will change that pace.

    Might be easier to stay away a while. Lower the frustration. 🙂

    • attaboy

      Well I certainly didn’t expect this kind of comment to be made lol. Its hard to relax when we need this so badly and Rossi appears to be dragging his feet.

  • lars lindberg

    Maybe the curie-cat produces to little electricity to be useful in industrial application. Maybe its not enough for a house just producing some watts like 100 Watts or something

  • lars lindberg

    has rossi said how much electricity the curie-cat produces? of course it can improve but it would be interesting to know what he has seen so far. can someone ask him?

  • The update answer doesn’t sound like Rossi. Perhaps some PR person is polishing the answer.

  • Patrick Ellul

    From now on it shall be referred to as “E-Cat X”, says Rossi.

  • psi2u2

    Thank you, clovis, for clarifying that. I would add that the off-color, highly emotional language of “mumbo jumbo-tango” (complete with its compounded appeals to cultural prejudice of one kind or another), phrased in such a rhetorical question, either indicates a newbie or someone with an axe to grind – I don’t profess to know which.

    • Uncle Bob

      The reference to “mumbo jumbo-tango” is a direct quote from what Mr. Rossi used in his blog when he said he wasn’t going to bother with all the “mumbo jumbo-tango” involved with a demonstration of the new Curried-cat. He said he would be going straight to production.

      I would be really impressed with this but it has strong echos of the original and very similar proclamations in 2011, along the lines of having products ready for market.
      “We are not making idle chatterings. We are making products”.

      • psi2u2

        It sounds more credible from him . He is working. He has no obligation to tell anyone anything.

  • Uncle Bob

    I wonder if the new Curried-cat will be included as part of the rights granted to the previous paid up licensees, or whether it is considered such new and different technology that it is outside the scope of the original agreement and requires further contributions?

    • GreenWin

      Gosh Bob, you’re asking lots of questions. Granted it can be frustrating for those who want answers on their timeline. You might try posing these questions to Rossi yourself. See what response you get, and report back here.

  • GreenWin

    Gosh Bob, you’re asking lots of questions. Granted it can be frustrating for those who want answers on their timeline. You might try posing these questions to Rossi yourself. See what response you get, and report back here.

  • Stephen

    Thanks Bachcole.

    I think there are a lot of concepts considered in LENR that are new to a lot of us even if we know some Physics, LENR touches on so many aspects I suspect very few have a grasp of everything. It amazes me how just as I feel I understand something in LENR something new comes up that gives an entirely new perspective. Its a real puzzle trying to find the right combination of pieces in a system of diverse ideas that makes it work but it makes it fascinating to follow too. Taking a step back and looking from your perspective is very wise too.

    Muon catalysed fusion is new too me too its an amazing phenomena I think and could well have a part to play in LENR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion

    Jones Beene just started an interesting thread on the Vortex-l mail archive that touches on the subject too. I found it fascinating:

    https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg104168.html

    I wonder if there is a good source for the muons?
    I wonder if their lifetime can be extended and if they can be ejected instead of gamma as Jones Beene suggests.

    According to the wikipedia link muons eventually get “stuck” to Alpha particles. I wonder if they eventually decay to electrons once they are stuck or if there is a way to prevent the sticking so they can sustain more fusion reactions?

    I’m looking forward to see how this idea develops

  • Patrick Ellul

    Dear Andrea,

    Regarding the “something else” that you mention that E-CatX has over the other cats:

    Does it make it easier 1) to manufacture? 2) to certify? 3) to protect its IP?

    Is that why it makes you more optimistic about the timeline for it going on shelves? F9 of course.

    Patrick Ellul:
    I would say all the three. F9 of course.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Patrick Ellul

    Dear Andrea,

    Regarding the “something else” that you mention that E-CatX has over the other cats:

    Does it make it easier 1) to manufacture? 2) to certify? 3) to protect its IP?

    Is that why it makes you more optimistic about the timeline for it going on shelves? F9 of course.

    Patrick Ellul:
    I would say all the three. F9 of course.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Well, this is all fine, but how much trouble would it be to just hook one up to a water circulator and measure the input and output with mass balance? Be done with speculation and fantasy! Prove it! It would be so easy if it were true!

    • Observer

      The E-Cat X produces electricity (directly). He has made the relevant measurements, and has rebuilt the unit (multiple times) when components fail. Rossi is not living in a world of speculation and fantasy, YOU are. The E-Cat X has to prove something to Rossi. Rossi does not have to prove ANYTHING to you. Rossi’s end game is a viable product, not acceptance from the peanut gallery (US).

      • Stephen Taylor

        Right.

      • Uncle Bob

        Not quite true.
        Mr. Rossi has to prove it to us before anybody buys it.
        If he only proves it to his satisfaction and no-one else then he will be the only one on the planet with one.
        That’s sort of where we’ve been for the last 5 years isn’t it?
        He had one heating his factory he says, but no-one else did.
        That will not save the planet. It wont really save anything.

      • Jarea

        Really, do you really think that he only has the ecat for himself?.he has a lot of things to prove. Besides,that is good because he has the first LENR product. The thing is that he already said that the market next year will proove he is right. So step by step and patience

      • I have not read that E-cat X was producing electricity “directly”.
        as I understand it is more like a CHP.
        Rossi just works scientifically on direct conversion, but it seems mostly based on tiny observes anomalies…

        Maybe one day EM field harnessing, betavoltaic, will allow direct conversion..
        Today as he says “Carnot Cycle” seems the best way.

        note that as I read him, “Carnot Cycle” is any thermodynamic cycle, like Carnot (Stirling), Brayton, rankine… as exploit turbines and piston engines, but also TEG and thermoacoustic engines.

        • bachcole

          This is my understanding. I was beginning to smell the dung of the male bovine when people said that he said that he had direct generation of electricity.

        • Jim Anderson

          AlainCo, In the past Rossi has reported anomalous EMF effects. Defkalion reported a 6 or 7 Tesla magnetic field as the result of one of their experiments. I think Rossi is saying one day has come now. Rossi’s comment is vague so maybe not. But up to now everything I have read about his statements agree with your comment. Something new is implied.

    • bachcole

      I see that you have a need to have it proven. However, Rossi doesn’t even know you and doesn’t care what your needs are.

      I would imagine that Rossi may be thinking along the lines that I am: Let’s make a revolution in thought and spring this baby on the academic elites fully matured, like Venus was born.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Seriously, given the enormity facing us we might want to focus on reality here. Fourth generation fission is the best availab!le and a damn good interim solution. Let’s just consider the possibility that Rossi and Mills may be wrong and think where do we go?

    • Observer

      What’s your time frame for your “interim” solution. It takes years just to get past the regulatory hurdles for building a fission plant.

      Before you break ground, the e-cat will be available at Home Depot. (providing F9>0)

      • Stephen Taylor

        The interim solution for best available fission technology gets us through the next thousand year time frame. It is available now but for political opposition. We need to get real. Surely one hopes for Rossi or Mills or small aneutronic fusion but we need to focus on engineering something real. Changing course for the better is easy. We need a real answer right now!

        • Manuel Cruz

          The problem is that the political opposition comes from the political faction that through corruption, terrorism, military actions and coup d’états has created a perfect cartel on oil production, to be precise. They will oppose and demonize with virulence not just nuclear fission, but any energy technology that could seriously compete with their monopoly.

    • Gerard McEk

      Stephen, if you refer to the thorium reactor or the travelling wave reactor, than you may may be right, but if AR can proove that it works (and that will be within a year) than I think those fission reactors do not make any chance, because for those reactors it takes at least 10 years (but probably 20) to get them designed and certified. If Andrea proves his 1MW plant or hot cat does what he is telling us now, than oil-, gas-, fission-, hot fusion-, solar-, wind and wave energy plants will be relics in 50 years.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Gerard, you are right and we have watched and hoped for this to work now five years. Maybe it will work some day or not. If we put one in a room and we put a simple electric heater of same input power in a similar room which room will be warmer. How easy it is to prove but instead we wait and hang on every word of Rossi. We have not time left for so much waiting. Really big clean power must come on line if we are to leave coal in the ground. I support nuclear because now there is nothing better that is big enough to save the day.

        • Gerard McEk

          At least there may be a future backup fission energy supply, so our childern and grandchilderen will not be left without energy in a world fighting for the last bit of oil, and that is good!

  • Stephen Taylor

    Seriously, given the enormity facing us we might want to focus on reality here. Fourth generation fission is the best availab!le and a damn good interim solution. Let’s just consider the possibility that Rossi and Mills may be wrong and think where do we go?

    • Observer

      What’s your time frame for your “interim” solution. It takes years just to get past the regulatory hurdles for building a fission plant.

      Before you break ground, the e-cat will be available at Home Depot. (providing F9>0)

      • Stephen Taylor

        The interim solution for best available fission technology gets us through the next thousand year time frame. It is available now but for political opposition. We need to get real. Surely one hopes for Rossi or Mills or small aneutronic fusion but we need to focus on engineering something real. Changing course for the better is easy. We need a real answer right now!

        • Manuel Cruz

          The problem is that the political opposition comes from the political faction that through corruption, terrorism, military actions and coup d’états has created a perfect cartel on oil production, to be precise. They will oppose and demonize with virulence not just nuclear fission, but any energy technology that could seriously compete with their monopoly.

    • Gerard McEk

      Stephen, if you refer to the thorium reactor or the travelling wave reactor, than you may may be right, but if AR can proove that it works (and that will be within a year) than I think those fission reactors do not make any chance, because for those reactors it takes at least 10 years (but probably 20) to get them designed and certified. If Andrea proves his 1MW plant or hot cat does what he is telling us now, than oil-, gas-, fission-, hot fusion-, solar-, wind and wave energy plants will be relics in 50 years.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Gerard, you are right and we have watched and hoped for this to work now five years. Maybe it will work some day or not. If we put one in a room and we put a simple electric heater of same input power in a similar room which room will be warmer. How easy it is to prove but instead we wait and hang on every word of Rossi. We have not time left for so much waiting. Really big clean power must come on line if we are to leave coal in the ground. I support nuclear because now there is nothing better that is big enough to save the day.

        • Gerard McEk

          At least there may be a future backup fission energy supply, so our childern and grandchilderen will not be left without energy in a world fighting for the last bit of oil, and that is good!

  • PappyYokum

    Magnificat.

  • Uncle Bob

    It’s impossible not to see the similarities between where we are now, and where we were back in 2011 – 2012
    I well remember after the testing of the original e-cats which were demonstrated and said to be ready for market. But then it was said there was a delay while waiting certification to allow them to be sold into the home.
    We never saw any marketable ‘product’ which was submitted to anyone for certification.
    What we did see were announcements of something supposedly even better; a ‘hot-cat’, which had a much higher COP, a much higher temperature, and which made the original e-cat almost obsolete. The advent of this far superior model was used to make further development on the original e-cat, of a very secondary importance. Far better to spend the time and money on developing the new hot-cat.

    Now, in August 2015, while we are all waiting for the results of the 12 month test on the 1MW plant, (which was built using all the old e-cat technology by the way, not the new hot cat technology ) we are suddenly having our attention diverted to an all new even better technology which will undoubtedly again make the old technology obsolete.
    And again, from the announcements, the new technology is touted as being the one which will go into production first, and possibly even into the homes first, by end of 2016 even. Really?

    How can that be when it has taken more than 4 years to make such minimal progress, if any at all, on getting certification for the original home e-cats? (for which there are already orders for 500,000 by the way, as previously reported)
    It’s hard not to conclude that the announcement of this radical new ‘Curried-cat’ is just for the purpose of delaying the necessity to start production of anything at all at the conclusion of this current 12 month test.
    I would not be at all surprised to find that by the time this 12 month test is finished, there will be no mass production of the 1MW plants, regardless of whether the claimed results are positive or negative.
    All the attention will be on whatever the new version is, and it will follow the same path as previous, which is, lots of announcements of amazing test results, ready for imminent production, as soon as reliability tests are complete, as soon as production factories are set up, as soon as certification is received, as soon as,..
    As we have seen in with the very simple, straight forwards low temperature and intrinsically fail safe home e-cat, that has so far taken four year with negligible progress.
    I would really like to see any good reason or evidence that this latest incarnation of cat will be any different.

    • Manuel Cruz

      Rossi went for industrial applications when it became clear he was not going to have home safety certifications approved for untested nuclear technology that we do not understand and science cannot explain.

  • Gerrit

    I am very confident that we will not be able to buy ecats for home use within the next year.

    I may change my mind if I see results of the 1MW plant early 2016.

  • oceans

    Great News and in that Rossi is in the late stages of his research and the one year test we can expect to see Home eCats in the first part of 2016, you do not have people like Darden sitting on the sidelines waiting for others to lead the way, they are very active preparing for the introduction of eCats to the World.

  • Bob Greenyer

    1. When I was studying furnace elements on behalf of the MFMP, I noticed that one Japanese seller touts the USP of their SiC element as being its ability to be 5% more efficient than the best of the rest.

    2. In the Condensing boiler market – 5% efficiency gain is a big selling point.

    3. In the Solar Panel market 1% more than you competitors gives you a huge advantage.

    4. A car that does 2 more miles to the gallon, that can be a HUGE advantage

    There is such a thing as Minimum Viable Product – in the use and production of energy in long term installations – 5% or less in favour of the customer is a BIG win. And here is the crux of the “Long Term Test” a solar panel is often guaranteed for 20+ years, a domestic boiler now for 10 years. That makes it worthwhile having an understanding of the reliability to ensure the %age gain is realised – but this need for certainty of longevity depreciates as the efficiency gain of the device increases.

    When you are talking about a heating device that is at a COP of 6 – as long as it has no harmful emissions, or has emissions that can be easily nullified and therefore get safety certification, the need for waiting and waiting for COP to go to 7, 8, 10, 50, 100 becomes moot. 6 is more than good enough.

    4 weeks ago, when it was 37ºC here in Czech – the CO monitor sat next to my gas combi boiler in my house, which is 7 years old and not still under warrantee, suddenly started screeching out and reporting 40ppm. Within 3 days, a 3 minute shower would have it at 430ppm. Needless to say with two babies in the house, we opened all the windows and stopped using the boiler. CO and Gas are SERIOUS risks already in peoples homes all over the world that kill frequently and cause other sufferring.

    Two days later, a gas certified plumber came to visit, after 10 minutes looking at it and pulling it apart, he asked me to sign a document to say I was never to use it again. In addition, it turns out that our flue – which is about 60+ feet high, is lined with now illegal aluminium and we must replace that with Stainless Steel and get it approved BEFORE we can have a new boiler installed. Total cost northwards of $5000. We don’t have the money, and in a few months we’ll be in a the depths of the cold central European winter, famed for high demands on gas.

    Because the building I live in is 115 years old, I can ONLY use this chimney and site a new boiler in the current location, because the boiler needs fresh air – I have to have air coming into my hall for burning – this air is cold from outside.

    Right now a LENR boiler would

    – Not produce CO
    – Not have natural gas leak risks
    – Not require an expensive flue relining
    – Allow me to seal my hall and keep our Flat much warmer with lower heat generated by a boiler
    – Not require a gas certified installer
    – would not need $170 gas a month
    – would be significantly smaller than current boiler
    – would be significantly cheaper than what I am currently faced with

    If the heat module was swap – out, I would only need it to last 6 months this year – but would be happy to change it monthly for the advantages I have listed. Later, when the hardware is better, a new module could be swapped in and the control software patched.

    COP of 6 – no problem, even a COP of 3 – because, I cannot use a heat pump due to the historical nature of my apartment.

    If we can find the money, we may be forced to install a terrible, expensive and continuously dangerous old heating technology in our apartment and its associated infrastructure which will become redundant in its lifetime, and right now an understanding of Minimum Viable Product by key claimants in this field would be a real blessing.

    As a side note – if you do not have a CO monitor by your boiler, get one, if we had made it to this winter, the constant heating would have surely resulted in lethal doses of this pernicious gas and I would have lost my young family had it not been for this inexpensive device that sat there and did nothing for 7 years previously.

    • Omega Z

      “2 more miles to the gallon”
      Huge when you consider 1 Billion+ vehicles in use.

  • Bob Greenyer

    1. When I was studying furnace elements on behalf of the MFMP, I noticed that one Japanese seller touts the USP of their SiC element as being its ability to be 5% more efficient than the best of the rest.

    2. In the Condensing boiler market – 5% efficiency gain is a big selling point.

    3. In the Solar Panel market 1% more than you competitors gives you a huge advantage.

    4. A car that does 2 more miles to the gallon, that can be a HUGE advantage

    There is such a thing as Minimum Viable Product – in the use and production of energy in long term installations – 5% or less in favour of the customer is a BIG win. And here is the crux of the “Long Term Test” a solar panel is often guaranteed for 20+ years, a domestic boiler now for 10 years. That makes it worthwhile having an understanding of the reliability to ensure the %age gain is realised – but this need for certainty of longevity depreciates as the efficiency gain of the device increases.

    When you are talking about a heating device that is at a COP of 6 – as long as it has no harmful emissions, or has emissions that can be easily nullified and therefore get safety certification, the need for waiting and waiting for COP to go to 7, 8, 10, 50, 100 becomes moot. 6 is more than good enough.

    4 weeks ago, when it was 37ºC here in Czech – the CO monitor sat next to my gas combi boiler in my house, which is 7 years old and not still under warrantee, suddenly started screeching out and reporting 40ppm. Within 3 days, a 3 minute shower would have it at 430ppm. Needless to say with two babies in the house, we opened all the windows and stopped using the boiler. CO and Gas are SERIOUS risks already in peoples homes all over the world that kill frequently and cause other sufferring.

    Two days later, a gas certified plumber came to visit, after 10 minutes looking at it and pulling it apart, he asked me to sign a document to say I was never to use it again. In addition, it turns out that our flue – which is about 60+ feet high, is lined with now illegal aluminium and we must replace that with Stainless Steel and get it approved BEFORE we can have a new boiler installed. Total cost northwards of $5000. We don’t have the money, and in a few months we’ll be in a the depths of the cold central European winter, famed for high demands on gas.

    Because the building I live in is 115 years old, I can ONLY use this chimney and site a new boiler in the current location, because the boiler needs fresh air – I have to have air coming into my hall for burning – this air is cold from outside.

    Right now a LENR boiler would

    – Not produce CO
    – Not have natural gas leak risks
    – Not require an expensive flue relining
    – Allow me to seal my hall and keep our Flat much warmer with lower heat generated by a boiler
    – Not require a gas certified installer
    – would not need $170 gas a month
    – would be significantly smaller than current boiler
    – would be significantly cheaper than what I am currently faced with

    If the heat module was swap – out, I would only need it to last 6 months this year – but would be happy to change it monthly for the advantages I have listed. Later, when the hardware is better, a new module could be swapped in and the control software patched.

    COP of 6 – no problem, even a COP of 3 – because, I cannot use a heat pump due to the historical nature of my apartment.

    If we can find the money, we may be forced to install a terrible, expensive and continuously dangerous old heating technology in our apartment and its associated infrastructure which will become redundant in its lifetime, and right now an understanding of Minimum Viable Product by key claimants in this field would be a real blessing.

    As a side note – if you do not have a CO monitor by your boiler, get one, if we had made it to this winter, the constant heating would have surely resulted in lethal doses of this pernicious gas and I would have lost my young family had it not been for this inexpensive device that sat there and did nothing for 7 years previously.

    • Omega Z

      “2 more miles to the gallon”
      Huge when you consider 1 Billion+ vehicles in use.

    • Uncle Bob

      Don’t complain to us Bob. We were hoping you were going to find out how it all worked and tell us all about it. 😉

      • Bob Greenyer

        hahah – we’ll see when the ash results come back.

        Next experiment expected to start 24th. Particulars to be published very soon.

  • Bob Greenyer

    You can light an average european house with 100-150Ws of LEDs these days – You can get a few solar panels and a battery to run them – not really a reason to hold back a Minimum Viable Product or even to get that excited about it, IMPO.

    Heating, cooking and cooling are the really demanding uses of power in a home.

    I’d like to see a LENR module that drops into AMPLE space inside a solid fuel AGA for instance – oven, cooking, heating and hot water.

    http://www.agaliving.com/complementary-collection/rayburn

    • Frank Acland

      I like the idea of an LENR AGA.

      • Stephen

        I wonder if it could do microwave and/or water purifying too. That would be some AGA. But a small heating unit replacing the current oil/gas/or solid fuel one would already be something.

        Has any one asked how small a hot cat device could be and yet still be safe to handle and produce useful excess heat and have sufficient run life time? Is there a minimum size required? Could it be the size of a shoe box or pen case or something?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Of course it could do water purifying, microwave, hmmm.

          • Omega Z

            Building an underground home can easily eliminate 75% of ones energy use. You merely need to condition the fresh air intake some of which can be accomplished with a simple exchanger with the exhaust air.. Light can even be piped in with tube lighting.(Not to be confused with skylight technology)

            The fresh air circulation can easily be done with a 10 watt fan/blower system.
            It’s My opinion that we need to work on both ends. Cheaper energy with reduced need using efficient products. LED Lights, Video screens, Refrigeration Etc,,,

            Just because you come up with cheap efficient plentiful energy is no excuse to waste it. The Previous generation already did that. As In- Coal & Gas is to cheap to justify insulation. Lets not repeat history. Learn from It…

  • Manuel Cruz

    Rossi went for industrial applications when it became clear he was not going to have home safety certifications approved for untested nuclear technology that we do not understand and science cannot explain.

  • Bob

    ecat X —– “I want to believe!” from the “X files” tv show!
    .
    I really hope this comes to fruition in the time frame he states, but I am quite perplexed.
    Rossi’s own words stated that in 2012 he was ready to mass produce in his “robotized” factory, thousands of home eCats for Home Depot. But then that date was missed because certification could not be gained.
    .
    He then stated that domestic eCats would not be available until safety certification and the only way to do that was via the industrial road. Make industrial units that would provide a history of safety for the domestic units to be certified.
    .
    Now it appears he is stating that he will go into mass production with home / domestic units before the release of 1mw industrial units? I am not sure what has changed.
    .
    The majority of Rossi’s announcements usually come true, relating to tests etc. The results are normally quite different than what is often expected or perceived. A major partner, which many thought might be GE, Seimans, etc. turns out to be Industrial Heat. A company that was solely created for the eCat, with no history nor even employees. Hardly a major company, but not insignificant in itself. Touted certification did become reality, but it was only a certification stating that a piece of equipment did not produce harmful effects. It did not certify that it was even operational, much less over unity. Test results by independent, third party that would be published in a journal, while I believe the tests were significant, they were only put on Arvix, not a published journal. The first test was not really independent, while the second one was much more so. In any case, questions about these tests have been answered by none of the testers.
    .
    So my point is, regarding some posts, Rossi has been very good about producing the goods. Even if some state that what he said and what he delivered is quite different. However regarding production dates, factories and customers, he has been batting zero. Only two units have been reported sold. One unconfirmed to the military (Navy?) and one to a secret customer, which almost certainly is Darden himself, yet still unconfirmed. In any case, we know really nothing about sales or customers. At one time 13 units were sold, but that seems to have not been correct.
    .
    As others have posted, I am not holding my breath for a domestic unit of any type within the next 5 years. I had was excited in 2012, but I have learned my lesson. If I am wrong, I will be exuberant. If I am right, I will now not be disappointed because I thought as such. If Darden / IH makes any type of positive announcement within the next few months, my opinion could be dramatically changed. At present their silence is deafening!
    .
    Good luck Dr. Rossi. God speed and I wish you the most success as it will surely be a boon to us all. However, while I really would like the flying car promised in the 1950’s, I am still waiting on that along with an eCat!

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I think many are miss reading Rossi here. He says “I hope so”.
      You should be aware of how such people tend to think about things.

      If we ask Rossi do you hope that the e-cat could be on
      sale next week, he would answer a resounding yes, I hope for.

      So the fact that one desires and “hopes” for such an
      event has VERY little meaning in terms of such an event being practical.

      So when someone says they “hope” they are much meaning
      they wish for, but including the word “hope” really amounts to that like
      everyone here, we wish, and we hope and we “want for” a consumer e-cat next
      year.

      Everyone here hopes for and wish for an e-cat next year
      (and so does Rossi). Honesty, I willing to bet WE ALL HOPE for a consumer e-cat
      next year! So yes, we do – so does Rossi.

      However such a statement from a practical point of view
      means very little. Besides, such home units would need a year or two of testing
      BEFORE going into production.

      I sure everyone is aware that if a design flaw or issue
      were to occur with such a consumer device (just like for the auto industry)
      then such a large re-call would not only damage the reputation of a company,
      but also often can bankrupt a company.

      In 2007 1 million Easy-Bake ovens were recalled due to
      children being burned (and one child requiring a partial amputation of a finger
      being badly burned). And that is a toy baking oven and not a home nuclear
      reactor!

      So anyone here with a “basic” functioning brain and an IQ
      over that of a 6 year old (and that includes Rossi) VERY WELL understands these
      basic types of issues. In fact Rossi likely has HUGE difficulty grasping why such
      issues are not obvious to a 6 year old let alone adults asking such questions! Rossi
      thus gives his reading public FAR more credit in terms of what he assumes 6
      year old child would know without question!

      And as I pointed out large outlays of capital are
      required for any kind of mass manufacturing. And toss in the issue of being a
      consumer product? Well then we have a VERY DIFFERENT ball game – safety issues
      are very important!

      However, to be fair and not be someone trying to throw
      cold water on the fun party here? One can reasonable admit that Rossi is “planning”
      and thinking and hoping to build mass produced LENR devices – and clearly Rossi
      wants this to occur ASAP. And clearly everyone (including Rossi) hopes for next year, but it not a practical view – only a hope based one.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Omega Z

        “I think many are miss reading Rossi here.”

        Agreed. It happens very often. People let their imagination carry them away.
        I agree with you full post.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The emotional excitement that Rossi displays with his announcements rings true to me.
    I believe these additional discoveries and advances are real and exciting—so much so that he can’t resist the impulse to pass it along. It must be fun for him to make these advances
    and announce them.

    I just wish he’d shorten the test time on his (conclusive) current 1 Megawatt test as
    the scientists did in their Swiss tests of his reactors. What is the point of continuing something like this for longer than six months when the breakthrough is already obvious?

    The credible revelation that there has been six months of excess heat production
    by Cold Fusion will turn the world on its head and provide Dr. Rossi with unlimited help and resources, not to mention and honors on a scale previously unseen.

    There’s simply no need to postpone by six months the knowledge that there’s a demonstrated,
    near-term prospect of cheap, clean energy in abundance for the world. The benefits of an earlier disclosure are many and varied—and huge. For example, coming six months sooner than would otherwise be the case, the exultant knowledge that through Cold Fusion cheap, clean water (from seawater) will soon come everywhere and that the empty deserts can bloom may forestall the growing religious war in the middle east–not to mention that most fossil fuel pollution will end six months earlier than would otherwise be the case and that the world will that much sooner enter an era of unlimited prosperity.

    • Paul Smith

      “August 3rd, 2015 at 7:21 AM

      Dear Dr. Rossi, I think that now it would be possible interrupt the test period of the plant. You have already collected a lot of data and already proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the Rossi effect is real. That is because the world needs you now….”

      “Andrea Rossi
      August 3rd, 2015 at 7:32 AM
      Italo R.:
      No, it is not possible to modify the terms of the test and still I must add that the results at the end of it can be either positive or negative.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.”

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The emotional excitement that Rossi displays with his announcements rings true to me.
    I believe these additional discoveries and advances are real and exciting—so much so that he can’t resist the impulse to pass it along. It must be fun for him to make these advances
    and announce them.

    I just wish he’d shorten the test time on his (conclusive) current 1 Megawatt test as
    the scientists did in their Swiss tests of his reactors. What is the point of continuing something like this for longer than six months when the breakthrough is already obvious?

    The credible revelation that there has been six months of excess heat production
    by Cold Fusion will turn the world on its head and provide Dr. Rossi with unlimited help and resources, not to mention and honors on a scale previously unseen.

    There’s simply no need to postpone by six months the knowledge that there’s a demonstrated,
    near-term prospect of cheap, clean energy in abundance for the world. The benefits of an earlier disclosure are many and varied—and huge. For example, coming six months sooner than would otherwise be the case, the exultant knowledge that through Cold Fusion cheap, clean water (from seawater) will soon come everywhere and that the empty deserts can bloom may forestall the growing religious war in the middle east–not to mention that most fossil fuel pollution will end six months earlier than would otherwise be the case and that the world will that much sooner enter an era of unlimited prosperity.

    • Paul Smith

      “August 3rd, 2015 at 7:21 AM

      Dear Dr. Rossi, I think that now it would be possible interrupt the test period of the plant. You have already collected a lot of data and already proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the Rossi effect is real. That is because the world needs you now….”

      “Andrea Rossi
      August 3rd, 2015 at 7:32 AM
      Italo R.:
      No, it is not possible to modify the terms of the test and still I must add that the results at the end of it can be either positive or negative.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.”

  • Stephen Taylor

    The most discouraging news of the year has been the lack of even modest success to replicate Parkhomov. If only someone can make a reliable reactor of even 1+ COP then progress can be hoped for and worked toward. Until this is achieved we have nothing. How are you replicators coming along in your works? Please give us something, any news is like water for the parched desert traveler.

    • bachcole

      I agree. I guess Parkhomov’s little deception may possibly have been part of a bigger pattern.

  • Hank Mills

    My guess is that he is either still using nickel (80% chance) or he has sacrificed the small amount of power output from the Nickel Hydrogen reactions at high temperatures and has switched to using high surface area Tungsten (or Tungsten Carbide) powder. The Tungsten has a greater electrical conductivity than Nickel and could retainits shape for longer. He would then add lithium hydroxide as a source of hydrogen and lithium. The lithium would coat the Tungsten particles and when squarewaves caused arcing between the Lithium vapor would be released and the Lithium Hydrogen gas would turn into a plasma. Protons would be accelerated into the Lithium at low energies (200ev to 5000ev) and induce fusion reactions. The alpha particles could then continually ionize the gas and make the reactir self sustain. Using Lithium hydroxide would both minimize the amount of hydrogen (reducing pressure which would make a plasma more likely to form) because it would contain fewer hydrogen atomsvthan LiAlH4 and by not containing aluminum the efficency of the reactor would increase.

    I really don’t think the E-Cat X is very complicated. In my opinion, there are probably several small things that are very important.

    • Omega Z

      Hank

      There was a post on JONP a long while back by Rossi that actually mentioned Tungsten. I don’t recall the particulars. I think perhaps it was something to do with the Hot-cat reactor core. There was some discussion about a double wall on Cobraf 1 of which involved Tungsten as the outer wall. I could be wrong. As I said, it was quite sometime ago. Note this was the Hot-cat with the open hollow center. It could also have been about using elements other then Nickel for fuel.
      Anyway, Rossi deleted that post very shortly after it appeared.

      • bachcole

        Rossi deleted that post very shortly after it appeared.

        That is almost a certainty that it is true and important, too true for Rossi to allow the message to stay posted.

      • Obvious
        • Omega Z

          Thank you.
          I missed that one in my search, however it isn’t the one I had in mind.
          But still appreciated.

          • Obvious

            It is the only one I have, but I do remember him mentioning using a tungsten sleeve for a hot cat once.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys.
    I am so excited about the new e-cat-x,reactor, and all the good news that goes with it. as we get closer to d-day, or should i say v-day , or maybe r-day for revolution, i was digging in my old videos, and came up with this one and thought i would post it just for fun, so Dr. Rossi you can see how you looked 4 years ago, lol, you have had good results since those days, https://youtu.be/odkfAjqA4pc?list=FLQs6VCWfEJapAsEzpi21H3A i believe this is one of your first reactors, it fun to look back, i am so glad you sir have been in control of this great gift to mankind, it still has a ways to go and then all will be served, not just a privileged few, thank you for being so strong in the face of the ptb. god bless you and may his hand always be on your shoulder , i believe your reactor is his will.—Clovis

  • Ted-X

    In my HUMBLE opinion, eCat-X is a tribute to my contributions, since I posted under the pen-name of Ted-X 🙂
    Maybe Rossi noticed MY postings, which are not commented by nearly anybody. To be short, the process is mediated by nickel carbonyls, creating nano-particles of nickel in the vapor/plasma phase, as the temperature oscillates up and down. The Ni-nanoparticles are known to provide the LENR-effect (Ted-X-effect? 🙂
    The change in the composition of the eCat-X is addition of lithium carbonate, to enhance the formation of the carbonyls. Rossi might have also used the transformer principle, which I suggested some time ago. Maybe my HUMBLE posting will now get noticed at this time.
    I hope that people here need some lighter postings as well.

  • Kendall Evans

    I would like to make a comment for the benefit of Stephen Taylor and other advocates of nuclear power using fission. He recommends fourth-generation fission reactors as an interim solution. Unless these 4th generation reactors produce virtually no long-term waste, they are a terrible solution. If we build lots of these, it will take off the pressure to develop clean energy, which seems to be progressing reasonably well. No one wants to store the long term waste, which lasts thousands of years. Far from being a “clean” energy source, nuclear is the dirtiest source of electricity available. Even without Chernobyl, 3-mile island, Fukushima, and the financial disaster at San Onofre, there is still the storage problem. No civilization on Earth has lasted as long at the radioactive problem would last.

    • john M

      We already have a storage problem. There are fission designs that can help. What if LENR doesn’t pan out? Fission could move us away from fossil fuels much faster than “clean” energy and have numerous environmental benefits. Please don’t discard this technology based on the failures of antiquated designs.

    • wpj

      I will have to disagree on some of this.

      There is a lot of effort to clean up all the radioactive waste which comes from these reactors. Once you have recycled the Uranium and plutonium then there is a few percent of very “hot” material with a half life of 10,000 years+. However, if you separate out the lanthanides and actinides, you can then bombard with neutrons and the half life is reduced to about 30 years.

      This is not a cheap process (especially given the prices that the companies are paying for the required chemicals- albeit on a small lab scale presently) but they are being pro-active and doing the research BEFORE the new reactors are being built.

    • Stephen Taylor

      With the right choices modern fission reduces the wastestream by a factor of 10 and increases the fuel supply into the +thousand year time frame. The volume of total waste is football stadium size which should be manageable. The mortality rate associated with fission energy is much lower than other energy sources. Not an ideal solution but available and can be very big in short time if politics change.
      More interesting for some is aneutronic fusion on small platform such as Helion Energy and others. These sadly are not yet available. Perhaps battery technology and solar conversion efficiency can help but I don’t think the size can be enough to power China, India, and then Africa and all of the rapidly developing world. The need is so huge it is difficult to comprehend. Now we need no burning things to generate this energy.
      If our society can survive the many challenges of the next quarter century we may thrive.

  • Omega Z

    Hank

    There was a post on JONP a long while back by Rossi that actually mentioned Tungsten. I don’t recall the particulars. I think perhaps it was something to do with the Hot-cat reactor core. There was some discussion about a double wall on Cobraf 1 of which involved Tungsten as the outer wall. I could be wrong. As I said, it was quite sometime ago. Note this was the Hot-cat with the open hollow center. It could also have been about using elements other then Nickel for fuel.
    Anyway, Rossi deleted that post very shortly after it appeared.

    • bachcole

      Rossi deleted that post very shortly after it appeared.

      That is almost a certainty that it is true and important, too true for Rossi to allow the message to stay posted.

    • Obvious
      • Omega Z

        Thank you.
        I missed that one in my search, however it isn’t the one I had in mind.
        But still appreciated.

        • Obvious

          It is the only one I have, but I do remember him mentioning using a tungsten sleeve for a hot cat once.

  • Bob Greenyer

    hahah – we’ll see when the ash results come back.

    Next experiment expected to start 24th. Particulars to be published very soon.