Industrial Heat Files New International Patent for ‘Energy-Producing Reaction Devices’

Thanks to Bernie Koppenhofer for finding the following:

Today, August 27, 2015, Industrial Heat, LLC has filed an International Patent for: ENERGY-PRODUCING REACTION DEVICES, SYSTEMS AND RELATED METHODS

Link is here: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCTDescription

Inventors are listed as Andrea Rossi and Thomas Barker Dameron.

The abstract reads: “A reactor device includes a reaction chamber; one or more thermal units in thermal communication with the reaction chamber configured to transfer thermal energy to the reaction chamber; and a refractory layer between the reaction chamber and the one or more thermal units.”

This one, unlike the recently approved Rossi patent is very extensive, and will take some time to go through. More details will be added here as information is digested.

I guess this will put an end to the rumor that Industrial Heat is no longer interested in the E-Cat!

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Wow, Frank you are fast, I just stopped typing.

    • Wishful Thinking Energy

      Helpful for replicators:

      Although the sealing members 14 may provide an air-tight seal, in some embodiments, the sealing members 14 are sufficient to retain the reactive material, but do not necessarily maintain an air-tight seal. An air-tight seal may be used when the reactive material includes the addition of a gas, such as pressurized hydrogen; however, in some embodiments, the reactive material does not require a pressurized gas, and an air-tight seal is not necessary. For example, nickel hydride may be used as the reactive material with or without a pressurized gas. In particular embodiments, the reactive material is not sealed and may even be in contact or in fluid communication with the outside environment. An unsealed device may be easier to manufacture, transport, and maintain. Moreover, reactive materials that do not include pressurized hydrogen may be safer to use than those that utilize pressurized hydrogen. One or more criterion configured for a control system may be modified based on the reactive material. In an embodiment, a control system may determine and control sealing based on information identifying the reactive material. Sealing of a reactor may be altered during operation based on input form a sensor, a timer, and/or any attribute accessible to a control system.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I bought lanthanumNickelHydride last year – Bob Higgins has it.

        • Ged

          Nickel hydride… huh! Makes since as then the nickel has its very own hydrogen. Wonder why no one (of the open science sorts) has tried that before.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I bought some and negotiated deals on bulk last year and encouraged the team – but time resources were tight and we had claims to test.

      • Obvious

        Direct current also claimed.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Wow, Frank you are fast, I just stopped typing.

  • Buck

    This looks to be a patent incorporating the Lugano Report. . . . Wow. How are the reviewers going to digest the notion of nuclear transmutation at “cold” temperatures?

    This will take a long time to read, though it looks like the main text is “only” the first 49 pages.

    • Obvious

      Any luck finding the US application? I was hoping for better quality images.

      • Buck

        If you select the “Documents” tab you should find the US application just above IH’s International Patent Application.

        After doing a quick scan, it (US patent application) looks to also be an application based upon the Lugano Report

        • Obvious

          Yes, the original document doesn’t really look much like a patent. So the construction photos are new.

          • Curbina

            The US patent has 157 Pages! Hefty!

          • Obvious

            Practically 157 pages of recycled Lugano

        • Adam Lepczak

          The patent application is super detailed. Are you reading this MFMP? Paging Bob Greenyer.

          • ecatworld

            Not until tonight. He apparently goes by the name of T Barker Dameron, and appears to be a Raleigh NC engineer.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            yes I just posted his linked in above,

            suddenly he is now famous to all the ecat fanboyz.

            Hi TB!

            :p

          • Buck

            As of August 11, 1998, T.B. Dameron was a high school student from Ravenscroft School visiting the North Carolina State University College of Engineering. It was holding its summer Student Introduction to Engineering (SITE) program for high school students and T.B. Dameron was one of 200 visiting students.

            You will need to do a “find” on Dameron to jump to the citation.

            Link>> https://www.engr.ncsu.edu/news/awards/awards.arc.98.summer.html

            Link>> http://www.ravenscroft.org/

          • Bob Greenyer

            Read it. Between the various replicators we have explored the various configurations except steel Tube – but that may have been superseded. The 3 phase schematics are pretty much the same as the 3D model I published from inference week after Lugano. In some ways – we are advancing faster as a collective.

            We took too long to be able to test Ni + LiAlH4, we bought it day after Lugano and sat on it and did not add Li to our experiments when we were discussing doing it from April last year after Piantelli patent extension.

            Good news is – we were right in focussing on high Al2O3 reactor vessels for *GlowSticks*

            We are to focus on finally adding Lithium and control.

        • GreenWin

          Buck, I got a real LOL on seeing the 157 page total. Clearly some of the IH financial muscle has gone into convincing USPTO to open their myopic eyes. From a global politic view this makes a lot of sense as China and India will proceed regardless of U.S. policy to ignore.

          ‘Scuse me while I go to the lobby for more popcorn… This thing’s a blockbuster. 🙂

          • Buck

            GW,
            I’m with you.

            What I find truly strange about this whole experience is the difficulty of explaining it for the first time to a relative with a serious sincere attitude. They are polite as relatives can be when coming together for the holidays. Yet, there is that hint of skepticism in the face of the “new fire”, the greatest invention and discovery in the last 5000 years that will change the world.

            Regarding IH, China, and India, I think we are on the same page. Right or wrong . . . I see this playing out like a game of chess or the Chines game of Go. Playing the strategy with the goal of transforming 7-8% of the global economy away from the existing energy infrastructure.

            And, I assume President Obama knows but is waiting for the right moment which may or may not occur prior to the 2016 presidential election. If it happens before the election, then I see it playing out like a Frank Capra movie. That should really boost the worldwide popcorn demand!

          • GreenWin

            Buck, completely understand the relative analogy. It is a trying endeavor for the best of diplomats. Greatly appreciate your viewpoint and wisdom over the years. Indeed, should it play out prior to election we could mimic the triumph of Bedford Falls. However, regardless of time, the challenge is to remind us all that it should, and can be, “A Wonderful Life.”

          • Paul

            Yes, Obama knows very well…

          • Mats002

            ^^

  • Buck

    This looks to be a patent application incorporating the Lugano Report. . . . Wow. How are the reviewers going to digest the notion of nuclear transmutation at “cold” temperatures?

    This will take a long time to read, though it looks like the main text is “only” the first 49 of the 97 pages, not including the 157 pages of the referenced US patent application.

    NOTE: the summary begins at Pg 36, paragraph 00210.

    • Obvious

      Any luck finding the US application? I was hoping for better quality images.

      • Buck

        If you select the “Documents” tab you should find the US application just above IH’s International Patent Application.

        After doing a quick scan, it (US patent application) looks to also be an application based upon the Lugano Report

        • Obvious

          Yes, the original document doesn’t really look much like a patent.
          So the construction photos are new in the WO version.

          • Curbina

            The US patent has 157 Pages! Hefty!

          • Obvious

            Practically 157 pages of recycled Lugano

        • GreenWin

          Buck, I got a real LOL on seeing the 157 page total. Clearly some of the IH financial muscle has gone into convincing USPTO to open their myopic eyes. From a global politic view this makes a lot of sense as China and India will proceed regardless of U.S. policy to ignore.

          ‘Scuse me while I go to the lobby for more popcorn… This thing’s a blockbuster. 🙂

          • Buck

            GW,
            I’m with you.

            What I find truly strange about this whole experience is the difficulty of explaining it for the first time to a relative with a serious sincere attitude. They are polite as relatives can be when coming together for the holidays. Yet, there is that hint of skepticism in the face of the “new fire”, the greatest invention and discovery of the last 5000 years that will change the world.

            Regarding IH, China, and India, I think we are on the same page. Right or wrong . . . I see this playing out like a game of chess or the Chinese game of Go. Playing the strategy with the goal of transforming 7-8% of the global economy away from the existing energy infrastructure.

            And, I assume President Obama knows but is waiting for the right moment which may or may not occur prior to the 2016 presidential election. If it happens before the election, then I see it playing out like a Frank Capra movie. That should really boost the worldwide popcorn demand!

          • GreenWin

            Buck, completely understand the relative analogy. It is a trying endeavor for the best of diplomats. Greatly appreciate your viewpoint and wisdom over the years. Indeed, should it play out prior to election we could mimic the triumph of Bedford Falls. However, regardless of time, the challenge is to remind us all that it should, and can be, “A Wonderful Life.”

          • Paul

            Yes, Obama knows very well…

          • Mats002

            ^^

  • Bob Greenyer

    Details more specifically the structure and materials used in the HotCat and also confirms the LiAlH4 and Ni with Lithium being the main source of energy released.

    Founded on Lugano Report

    Recognises the work of others in the field

  • US_Citizen71

    Priority date on the patent is February 21st of last year. I don’t think it was just filed more like the 18 month unpublished period ended and the patent office auto published it.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    Helpful for replicators:

    Although the sealing members 14 may provide an air-tight seal, in some embodiments, the sealing members 14 are sufficient to retain the reactive material, but do not necessarily maintain an air-tight seal. An air-tight seal may be used when the reactive material includes the addition of a gas, such as pressurized hydrogen; however, in some embodiments, the reactive material does not require a pressurized gas, and an air-tight seal is not necessary. For example, nickel hydride may be used as the reactive material with or without a pressurized gas. In particular embodiments, the reactive material is not sealed and may even be in contact or in fluid communication with the outside environment. An unsealed device may be easier to manufacture, transport, and maintain. Moreover, reactive materials that do not include pressurized hydrogen may be safer to use than those that utilize pressurized hydrogen. One or more criterion configured for a control system may be modified based on the reactive material. In an embodiment, a control system may determine and control sealing based on information identifying the reactive material. Sealing of a reactor may be altered during operation based on input form a sensor, a timer, and/or any attribute accessible to a control system.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I bought lanthanumNickelHydride last year – Bob Higgins has it.

      • Ged

        Nickel hydride… huh! Makes since as then the nickel has its very own hydrogen. Wonder why no one (of the open science sorts) has tried that before.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I bought some and negotiated deals on bulk last year and encouraged the team – but time resources were tight and we had claims to test.

    • Obvious

      Direct current also claimed.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Who is Thomas Barker Dameron?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Who is Thomas Barker Dameron?

  • US_Citizen71

    ‘The fission of lithium to helium (and tritium) by Cockroft and Walton in 1932 was the first artificial fission reaction, in this case induced by proton bombardment.Li-7 + proton  2He-4 + 17 MeV’ – http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Lithium/

    I think this is what Rossi has made self sustaining.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It is the same reaction – but no tritium

      The Nickel is the 1H particle accelerator – as per Piantelli.

      This is not Widom Larson

      • US_Citizen71

        No new physics needed, really old nuclear physics explains it. Wonderful times! 🙂

        • Bob Greenyer

          Well – actually, there are several new uses of physics needed to understand how you can make nickel into a 1H particle accelerator – but none that break the “Laws” of physics. Nickel also splits the H2, not that it needs to with Li+ H- in direct contact with Ni.

          • US_Citizen71

            It must not take a large amount of energy input to cause the reaction under certain circumstances. I don’t think there ever has been a major effort to build lithium fission reactors, as uranium provided more power. They were on the right track in 1932 and just didn’t know it. The nickel effect will get explained, we only figured why a honey bee can fly about a decade ago and we’ve been watching them for thousands of years.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli has already explained the Nickel effect. It is a mini Proton (1H) accelerator.

            In my opinion, very much more so if it is pure 62Ni – as it does not want any of the Protons (to make neutrons) itself

            This is why a reactor will improve with time.

          • Bob

            Very exciting. I bet the boys at ECW are just having a cow! 🙂
            .
            I have not had time to look at the application yet, but I would like to ask what others think
            about this question :
            .
            What is the relationship between Rossi / Leonardo Corp and Industrial Heat?
            .
            The previous US patent has only Rossi on it. This one seems to be owned by IH.
            Yet recent posts by Rossi seemed to indicate that while their relationship was smooth, Leonardo Corp held all the cards so to speak. Yet here is an international patent application that seems to clearly have IH as the owner!
            .
            I realize that time passes from when a patent was submitted and when it was granted, but normally, revisions are submitted if contractual ownerships have been declared. Otherwise the patent would be somewhat useless to the purchasing member. I find it a bit odd.
            .
            While I am pleased to see these new transactions, I must say I am more puzzled now than ever!
            Not that it really matters, it is just that I find it interesting that “the proof is in the pudding” as the old saying goes. (Do not ask me where that saying comes from, I have no idea!)
            .
            Yes, with these announcements and the good work of the MFMP team, I believe there will be a lot of “old school” hard liners sitting in the corner with the dunce hat on in the up coming months. They probably will be still whining though! :0

          • GreenWin

            Bob,
            “The proof of the pudding is in the eating’ is a very old proverb. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations dates it back to the early 14th century, albeit without offering any supporting evidence for that assertion. The phrase is widely attributed
            to Cervantes in The History of Don Quixote.”
            http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proof-of-the-pudding.html

            Interesting the phrase is attributed to Quixote. I believe it was the image of Rossi and partner Dr. Sergio Focardi tilting against the windmills of consensus science that somehow moved a dissolute Algore to whisper the words “cold fusion.”

            The “pudding” is in these LENR related patents. And in the (to date) successful test of a commercial E-Cat installation. As our friend Bachole notes often, “The LENR juggernaut rolls on.” At what point does an honest, humble academic come forward and speak the three “W” words consensus science seems incapable of:

            “We Were Wrong.” http://bit.ly/1PBypNq

          • Mark S.

            They die first. I think Kuhn and some early years quantum physicist said something similar. LOL

          • Bob Greenyer

            This is a patent more on the functional design of a reactor that burns suitable fuel – indeed it lists other candidate fuels by other researchers. It is a patent on high temperature design.

            Rossis Patent is the Master as it is based on the core fuel – the novelty of which is having LiAlH4 as hydrogen source and Lithium as fuel

          • Omega Z

            Yes, Bob.
            How do you reconcile all of what appears to be contradictions.

            Consider Industrial heat was created as a Venture Capital(VC) LLC.
            Industrial heat is invested in Leonardo Corp. as Venture Capital.
            Industrial heat is independent, while also a partner of Leonardo.

            Venture Capitalists can hold an awful lot of control over those they invest in. It all comes down to the details agreed upon.
            Almost always, they will know all the details/secrets of an investment.
            They “May” hold the right to designate/license manufactures.
            They “May” hold the right to designate/license to distribute.
            They “May” hold the right to bring in outside expertise.
            They “May” hold the right to distribute work/R&D to outside researchers.
            ———————————————————————-
            I admit, Some of Rossi’s statements confused me at 1st. But then I remembered reading about Lonnie Johnson & his JTEC- A Solid State Energy converter or Thermal Electric Converter.(Note: The JTEC would be Ideal for a Hot-cat if it works as planned)

            Johnson took on the VC- PARC(Xerox) as a partner in it’s development. Johnson still has majority control, but all the above -They “May” hold- applies. Even tho Johnson has majority control, They call almost all the shots.(They control the purse strings)
            ———————————————————————-
            In this manner, Industrial heat is a separate entity,
            But is an invested partner in Leonardo Corp.
            Rossi has majority control of Leonardo(?).
            Rossi works as the Chief Scientist of Industrial heat.
            But Rossi has no ownership in Industrial heat.

            In case you think this is just a convoluted way to explain away the contradictions, I will tell you I was once involved in a partnership of multiple businesses somewhat of this arrangement. Our purposes was to protect one another in case 1 of us developed health issues or died. It left the survivor with options. Call it a poor mans type of LLC. Limited Liability.

            Note: The patent with just Rossi’s name on it was filed prior to Industrial heat partnership. Also, once granted, said patent can be transferred at a latter date.

          • timycelyn

            I did hear a rumour that there is a move to give the ‘hard liners’ a better voice in the future now that all these clearly incorrect results and mistakes by patent departments are coming out everywhere. They are apparently considering teaming up with other groups who try and keep the faith when the rest of us start chasing rainbows.

            I understand that the new grouping will be called: “The Round Earth, manned flight and LENR Debunking Society.”

            Let us all wish that these corageous Guardians of the Truth get the recognition they so justly deserve…..

            😉

            You boy, stop that sniggering at ONCE!

          • Mats002

            I tip my Piantelli hat!

      • Daniel Maris

        This does appear to be a very positive development. The amount of theoretical detail referred to below sounds quite impressive.

    • Mats002

      The magic is in the initial part of the Rossi Effect process, probably from underlying physics that will take decades to understand.

      Nonetheless – we have a new clean powerful fire not more dangerous than the old one.

      Today I am a happy ape!

      • Da Phys

        Ok, now that these patents have been filed, what is the mouse? What is the cat?

        • Mats002

          Good question! Axil Axil put forward some ideas but those are about underlying processes at a level I think noone understands today, not even Rossi.

          The mouse is said to have a COP > 1, but just little over 1. If it was not for this statement I would say that the mouse is the heater wire that stimulates the cat to follow.

          The logo suggests to me that the red ball is the mouse and the cat will chase it, as in signals follow or correlate or sync up.

          The mouse can be some additional stimuli like a EM but again the puzzle is in mouse having COP > 1.

          • Da Phys

            I agree. This is puzzling. Actually this patent opens more questions than give answers based on what Rossi said these last months in JONP about his reactor. This gives the impression that he succeeded to master the beast without a clear understanding of it.
            Let’s hope his 1 year trial will succeed because he will still be more under pressure after the publication of the two patents.

          • Paul

            The logo was designed by a third person on a creative basis in 2012, before Cat and Mouse tech, then it was proposed to Rossi that adopted it, so there is no relation among the two.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think it is a size thing and maybe counter intuitive.

            is the CAT Ni (it is physically large compared to Li and is the catalyst in that it creates the necessary processed H2 for the rest of the reaction)

            is the MOUSE Li (because of size – but actually the main part of the yield)

            OR

            Ni + 1H is the mouse (in energy terms) as it creates a yield of a little over 1 (12.5% excess as far as our Celani experiments have show) but can sometimes eject a proton.

            Li then becomes the CAT – the mouse causes it to spring into action and fusion / fission to 2 X 4He giving the big energy game.

            In the end it is a word play to keep people guessing. What matters more is can it be replicated? In April 2014 I was calling very strongly for MFMP members to focus on adding lithium and lithium compounds to all our experimental threads given the new patent extension of Piantelli released at that time and all the historical evidence. It was clear that this is the main energy yield in his thinking.

          • Da Phys

            I agree. Ni+H as Jerry and Li as Tom is what makes the most sense to me.
            Although I’m also convinced that Li is the big player here, I don’t think that Li+H->He4+He4 is the main reaction.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @Da Phys,

            It is

            1. mouse: Ni + H- (1 proton 2 electrons seen as a composite particle and appearing has a “heavy electron” / Muon to Nickel) result is little over COP of 1.

            2. cat: 1H (ejected from failed 1 step) is a proton exceeding 223.6eV that interacts with 7Li – which either goes by two paths to 2 X 4He as shown on lines 12 & 13 of my sheet here

            https://goo.gl/S8kcI7

          • Da Phys

            Yes, in line with Piantelli’s theory. I’m not sure of the last step however, other reactions such as the fission of 6Li+n also makes sense.

          • Bob Greenyer

            except that 6Li is left in the ash.

            The purpose of Piantelli/Focardi work was to find reactions that did not yield n

          • Paul

            Yes but the He4 are higly energetic. Where are the gammas from the subsequent evolution of He4? This is the BIG problem for a physicist!

          • Mats002

            What about this TINY answer: The reaction takes place inside a metal lattice, not in free air as in hot (fast) particle physics.

            CMNS = Condensed Matter Nuclear Science.

          • Paul

            Do you think that He4 with energies of many Mev, that does not survive in condensed matter, can disappear without producing gamma of high energy? If this is your idea, it does not reflect the known physics, you can ask to a nuclear physicist, he will illustrate al the possible processes in detail. Rossi, Focardi and many others, me included, all believe that the E-Cat works with the known physics, not with exotic physics.

          • Mats002

            I don’t know – and I am not a professional in physics – but I believe that this process will reveal some news to the community. Why would physicists know everything at this point in time?

          • Paul

            Oh, this is sure! Physicists considers exotic physics for the E-Cat things like vacuum energy, but things like compact objects or neutron tunneling, for example, are not exotic physics, even if still not observed.

          • Agaricus

            Agreed. They will most likely employ some form of ‘hire purchase’ agreement with performance guarantees and possibly with free upgrade provisions, in order to defray capital risk on the part of customers. With data from the current trial available for inspection, there will be no problem at all in finding homes for any number of the devices through contacts, ‘word of mouth’ and possibly through industry publications.

            IMHO this has been IH/Darden’s strategy from the outset, meaning that publicity is not only not required but is actually undesirable, at least until a number of installations are in place and earning their keep. It is only after this stage is complete and a market for cold fusion water heaters/LP steam generators is established that more disruptive products using spin-off technologies will be introduced.

        • Axil Axil

          The mouse produces a muon chain reaction in the Cats that surround the mouse.

  • US_Citizen71

    ‘The fission of lithium to helium (and tritium) by Cockroft and Walton in 1932 was the first artificial fission reaction, in this case induced by proton bombardment.Li-7 + proton  2He-4 + 17 MeV’ – http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Lithium/

    I think this is what Rossi has made self sustaining.

    edit: It looks like they claim more is going on.

    ‘[00201] An arbitrary sample of different granules was chosen for the analysis, but the same samples are used for both EDS and SIMS. The reactive material contains natural nickel powder with a grain size of a few microns. The existence of natural Nickel content is confirmed by all four analyzing methods being used. In addition the reactive material is found to be mixed with a component containing hydrogen, i.e. possibly a chemical hydride. From all combined analysis methods of the reactive material, significant quantities of Li, Al, Fe and H, in addition to Ni, were found. Moreover from the EDS and XPS analysis one finds large amounts of C and O. The quantities of most elements differ depending on which granule is analyzed. In addition to these elements there are small quantities of several other elements, but these may be considered as impurities.

    [00202] The reactive material may be mixed with the standard Lithium Aluminum Hydride, LiAlH4. An ICP-AES analysis shows that the mass ratio between Li and Al is compatible with a Li AIH4 molecule. This compound can be used to produce free hydrogen by heating. Hydrogen may be included. The reactive material need not include deuterium. The SIMS illustrates this. The other methods are insensitive to both hydrogen and deuterium.

    [00203] The ash has a different texture than the powder-like reactive material by having grains of different sizes, possibly developed from the heat. The grains differ in element composition, but the limited amount of ash available make it impossible to analyze more grains with SIMS. The main result from the sample is that the isotopic composition deviates from the natural composition for both Li and Ni.

    [00204] The Lithium content in the reactive material m ay have a natural composition, i.e.

    6Li 7 % and 7Li 93 %. However at the end of the run a depletion of 7Li in the ash was revealed by both the SIMS and the ICP-MS methods. In the SIMS analysis the 7Li content was 7.9% and in the ICP-MS analysis it was 42.5 %. This result shows that the burning process in E-Cat changes the reactive material at the nuclear level, i.e. nuclear reactions have taken place. It is notable that also in Astrophysics, a 7Li depletion is observed [see e.g. Reference 17].

    [00205] Considering Li and disregarding for a moment Coulomb barrier, the depletion of 7Li might be due to the reaction p + 7Li— >8Be— > He+ 4He. The momentum mismatch in the first step before 8Be decays can be picked up by other particles in the vicinity. In this case, the large kinetic energy of the 4He (distributed between 7 and 10 MeV) is transferred to heat in the reactor via multiple Coulomb scattering in the stopping process. One can then estimate how much this reaction contributes to the total heat being produced in the test run. There is about 0.01 1 gram of 7Li in the 1 gram reactive material utilized in the experiments. The ICP AES analysis confirmed this.. If each 7Li nucleus releases about 17 MeV the total energy available becomes 0.72 MWh. This is less than the 1.5 MWh produced in the 32 day run, so more energy has to come from other reactions, judging from this estimate.

    [00206] Another change in the ash as compared to the unused reactive material is the identified change in the isotope composition of Ni. The unused reactive material hasa natural isotope composition as confirmed by both SIMS and ICP-MS, i.e., 58Ni (68.1%), 60Ni (26.2%), 6,Ni (1.1%), 62Ni (3.6%), and 6 Ni (0.9%), whereas the ash composition from SIMS is: 58Ni (0.8.%), 60Ni (0.5%), 61Ni (0%), 62Ni (98.7%), 64Ni (0%), and from ICP-MS: 58Ni (0.8%), 60Ni (0.3%), 6lNi (0%), 6 Ni (99.3%), 64Ni (0%). The SIMS and ICP-MS give the same values within the estimated 3% error in the given percentages.

    [00207] There is also an isotope shift in Nickel. There is a depletion of the 58Ni and 60Ni isotopes and a buildup of the 62Ni isotopes in the burning process. It is noted that 6 Ni is the nucleus with the largest binding energy per nucleon. The origin of this shift cannot be understood from single nuclear reactions involving protons. With alpha particles colliding with Ni one can in principle raise the atomic mass number by 4 via exciting 58Ni to 6 Zn, which then via positron emission decays back to 62Cu and 6 Ni, but that is unlikely to occur due to an enormous Coulomb barrier to merge 4He and Ni. Besides, with this reaction one can also go to stable Zn isotopes, which are not found in the ash.

    [00208] It should be pointed out that the fusion towards heavier isotopes of Nickel releases energy. For example the reaction p + S8Ni— >59Cu + J and 59Cu decaying back to 59Ni via β+ emission releases 3.4 MeV. Even if that particular reaction is excluded, since gammas are not observed, this number can be used for each step towards 62Ni and there is about 0.55 gram Ni in the reactive material of the experiments (confirmed based on the information from ICP-AES.. It is found then that there is about 2.2MWh available from the Nickel transformations. Accordingly, from Nickel and

    Lithium together there is about 3 MWh available, which is twice the amount given away in the test run. Consequently, it can be concluded that the amount of reactive material may be compatible with the energy release being measured.

    [00209] An isotope shift appears to have occurred in Lithium and Nickel. If nuclear transitions are prevalent in the burning process it is expected that radiation is emitted. Neutrons, charged particles and gammas are not observed from the device. Furthermore, the spent reactive material was found inactive right after the run was stopped. Nuclear reactions in the reactor should be followed by some radiation, and at least some of that radiation should penetrate the reactor wall and be possible to detect. Even in the case discussed above with two rather high energy helium nuclei in the final state, which stop in the reactor, one can expect that some helium nuclei during the stopping process undergo some nucleai* reaction, e.g. inelastic scattering of 4He on Li, Al or Ni which then subsequently decays to their ground state respectively via gamma emission. To get a free neutron is however not currently believed to be kinematically possible with the 10 MeV alpha available. There appears to be an absence fo any nuclear radiation from the burning process.

    • Bob Greenyer

      It is the same reaction – but no tritium

      The Nickel is the 1H particle accelerator – as per Piantelli.

      This is not Widom Larson

      • US_Citizen71

        No new physics needed, really old nuclear physics explains it. Wonderful times! 🙂

        • Bob Greenyer

          Well – actually, there are several new uses of physics needed to understand how you can make nickel into a 1H particle accelerator – but none that break the “Laws” of physics. Nickel also splits the H2, not that it needs to with Li+ H- in direct contact with Ni.

          • US_Citizen71

            It must not take a large amount of energy input to cause the reaction under certain circumstances. I don’t think there ever has been a major effort to build lithium fission reactors, as uranium provided more power. They were on the right track in 1932 and just didn’t know it. The nickel effect will get explained, we only figured why a honey bee can fly about a decade ago and we’ve been watching them for thousands of years.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli has already explained the Nickel effect. It is a mini Proton (1H) accelerator.

            In my opinion, very much more so if it is pure 62Ni – as it does not want any of the Protons (to make neutrons) itself

            This is why a reactor will improve with time.

          • Mats002

            I tip my Piantelli hat!

    • clovis ray

      Hi, guys
      So, you guys think rossi has a nuclear reactor, i don’t think so, there may be some transmutation, but that’s all that could be nuclear. in my opinion, no fission, or splitting atoms, their is not enough radiation, for it to be fission, i hope Dr. Rossi will reveal , to us what is really going on, just to be honest i don’t think anyone will figure it out, because it is way more complicated than everyone think it is. lenr and cold fusion could be a red herring. to through everyone off the trail. lol, just ramblin

      • Ryan

        Nuclear would apply to any process that actually affects the atom at the proton, neutron, electron level. Thus, transmutation would still qualify as a nuclear process. The word doesn’t need to be feared. There are nuclear processes that aren’t great, but it would appear we’ve stumbled upon methods without the risk involved.

        • clovis ray

          Hi.Ryan.
          I understand fully, I even said i thought it might be transmutation did i not, i was referring to his reference to fission, which is completely out of the ballpark from the rossi effect, which has little to no nuclear affect, maybe transmutation,

    • Mats002

      The magic is in the initial part of the Rossi Effect process, probably from underlying physics that will take decades to understand.

      Nonetheless – we have a new clean powerful fire not more dangerous than the old one.

      Today I am a happy ape!

  • Obvious

    Durapot 810 named as ceramic sealant.

  • Filed or granted? It looks like it was granted today? filed in Feb.

    Publication Date:

    27.08.2015

    International Filing Date:

    20.02.2015

    http://tinyurl.com/nslsqb8

    • SG

      – Filed February 20, 2015
      – Published August 27, 2015
      – Probably not yet granted in any country yet

      • Ok I stand corrected.

        ‘published’ doesn’t equal ‘granted’.

        this blurb is from a page that talks about US patents but clarifies things here I think:

        ‘The publication of a patent application marks the date at which it is
        publicly available and therefore at which it forms full prior art for
        other patent applications worldwide.

        It should be understood that a publication is still an application – and
        cannot be enforced as an issued patent in terms of infringement.’

        http://www.the-business-of-patents.com/patent-publication.html

      • priority date is 2014/02, probably an evolution of a previous unsuccessful applications

  • Owen Geiger

    It sure looks like Rossi is gearing up for commercialization. Hope to see something for sale in 1-2 years.

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I found this on Gizmodo yesterday: A Startup With No Website Just Announced a Major Fusion Breakthrough!!

    http://gizmodo.com/secretive-energy-company-claims-fusion-power-breakthrou-1726782476

    “Tri Alpha Energy says it’s built a machine that can hold a hot blob of plasma steady at 10 million degrees Celsius for five whole milliseconds.”

    “If Tri Alpha’s claim is true, then the company has managed to hold a
    superheated ball of plasma steady for an incredibly long time, in fusion
    terms.”

    LENR is pie in the sky, but claim you have held a “blob of plasma steady at 10 million degrees Celsius for five whole milliseconds” and people crow.

    NOTE: the big news in energy this week: “Tri Alpha made a claim!!!”

    Oh the sad lot of Hot Fusion – credibility without success.

    • SG

      But that was a very warm 5 milliseconds!

      It is sad. Literally hundreds of billions of tax payers dollars over the years.

      Had LENR received a tenth of one percent of that, imagine where we would be.

      • Mike Henderson

        I have come to think of cold fusion as hot fusion on a very tiny scale, spread throughout a grain of metal. The FCC lattice vibrates in ways that creates very tightly compressed areas for very brief instants. These ephemeral spots are extremely hot and high pressure for their brief lifetime. And on average, the metal grain is merely “warm”.

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I found this on Gizmodo yesterday: A Startup With No Website Just Announced a Major Fusion Breakthrough!!

    http://gizmodo.com/secretive-energy-company-claims-fusion-power-breakthrou-1726782476

    “Tri Alpha Energy says it’s built a machine that can hold a hot blob of plasma steady at 10 million degrees Celsius for five whole milliseconds.”

    “If Tri Alpha’s claim is true, then the company has managed to hold a
    superheated ball of plasma steady for an incredibly long time, in fusion
    terms.”

    LENR is pie in the sky, but claim you have held a “blob of plasma steady at 10 million degrees Celsius for five whole milliseconds” and people crow.

    NOTE: the big news in energy this week: “Tri Alpha made a claim!!!”

    Oh the sad lot of Hot Fusion – credibility without success.

    • SG

      But that was a very warm 5 milliseconds!

      It is sad. Literally hundreds of billions of tax payers dollars over the years.

      Had LENR received a tenth of one percent of that, imagine where we would be.

      • Mike Henderson

        I have come to think of cold fusion as hot fusion on a very tiny scale, spread throughout a grain of metal. The FCC lattice vibrates in ways that creates very tightly compressed areas for very brief instants. These ephemeral spots are extremely hot and high pressure for their brief lifetime. And on average, the metal grain is merely “warm”.

  • Bob

    Very exciting. I bet the boys at ECW are just having a cow! 🙂
    .
    I have not had time to look at the application yet, but I would like to ask what others think
    about this question :
    .
    What is the relationship between Rossi / Leonardo Corp and Industrial Heat?
    .
    The previous US patent has only Rossi on it. This one seems to be owned by IH.
    Yet recent posts by Rossi seemed to indicate that while their relationship was smooth, Leonardo Corp held all the cards so to speak. Yet here is an international patent application that seems to clearly have IH as the owner!
    .
    I realize that time passes from when a patent was submitted and when it was granted, but normally, revisions are submitted if contractual ownerships have been declared. Otherwise the patent would be somewhat useless to the purchasing member. I find it a bit odd.
    .
    While I am pleased to see these new transactions, I must say I am more puzzled now than ever!
    Not that it really matters, it is just that I find it interesting that “the proof is in the pudding” as the old saying goes. (Do not ask me where that saying comes from, I have no idea!)
    .
    Yes, with these announcements and the good work of the MFMP team, I believe there will be a lot of “old school” hard liners sitting in the corner with the dunce hat on in the up coming months. They probably will be still whining though! :0

    • GreenWin

      Bob,
      “The proof of the pudding is in the eating’ is a very old proverb. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations dates it back to the early 14th century, albeit without offering any supporting evidence for that assertion. The phrase is widely attributed
      to Cervantes in The History of Don Quixote.”
      http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proof-of-the-pudding.html

      Interesting the phrase is attributed to Quixote. I believe it was the image of Rossi and partner Dr. Sergio Focardi tilting against the windmills of consensus science that somehow moved a dissolute Algore to whisper the words “cold fusion.”

      The “pudding” is in these LENR related patents. And in the (to date) successful test of a commercial E-Cat installation. As our friend Bachole notes often, “The LENR juggernaut rolls on.” At what point does an honest, humble academic come forward and speak the three “W” words consensus science seems incapable of:

      “We Were Wrong.” http://bit.ly/1PBypNq

      • Mark S.

        They die first. I think Kuhn and some early years quantum physicist said something similar. LOL

        • GreenWin

          You’re right Mark. But I am hoping to bridge that idiom and allow our most revered to triumph by admission of error.

        • atlantis71

          exactly. We are witnessing a scientific-technological revolution which follows the same pattern as described by Kuhn

      • Uncle Bob

        The important point in the proverb you are quoting is the last part.
        “The proof of the pudding IS IN THE EATING”.

        What we have so far is a recipe for the pudding, and the chef is saying it’s the best pudding ever made. I agree it sounds like the best, but what we have never had is a proper taste ourselves.
        The few who have had a taste tell us they think it might be ok but are not really sure.
        Most home cooks and head chefs are telling us the pudding has been covered with a very ordinary syrup and it’s the syrup which is making the pudding recipe appear good.

        I think it’s significant that the main ingredient in the original recipe , Nickel, to which was attributed the uniquely exquisite taste, has now been superseded by a new ingredient Lithium aluminium hydrate, which was not even in the original recipe, and yet it still comes out with exactly the same flavor; a COP of six.
        If we go back over the long past Rossi-blog, The use of LAH was suggested by one of the blog readers as a way of adding hydrogen gas to the recipe without the need for adding hydrogen from a separate pressurized gas cylinder, the H being supplied by the H in the LAH. This suggestion was apparently taken up because later versions do not have a hydrogen cylinder anywhere nearby.
        Now that the recipe has been patented, we find that the very ingredient which was the mainstay of the whole recipe, has been relegated to the status of a mere spice (catalyst), and the miraculous taste is now attributed to an ingredient which was not even in the original recipe.
        And yet, again miraculously, the taste is exactly the same. A COP of six

        Now some people will say this is the mark of true genius in a chef, that he can use two completely different main ingredients to come up with the exact same flavor.
        Had we been feasting on previous examples of this from the same chef, I would be more inclined to accept this possibility but from previous recipes I am more persuaded that we are not now looking at a recipe for chocolate mouse, but rather something which looks similar and is a basic derivative of a bovine product.

        • GreenWin

          ” The habit of automatically assuming a “worst case scenario” and
          inappropriately characterizing minor or moderate problems or issues as
          catastrophic events.”
          http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Catastrophizing.html

          Uncle Bob,

          a few of us understand your frustration. A bit of advice: take care to read the expiration date on any food product. Lest you eat humble pie. 🙂

          • Uncle Bob

            If all this comes good, I won’t mind eating a truckload of humble pie, and I will eat it gladly, breakfast, lunch and dinner, with or without sauce, secret or otherwise.
            The huge benefit to the whole of this planet earth will far outweigh any culinary preferences I might have.
            But I wont be eating it on the results of a secret one year test run by one person in a secret location for a secret customer. There are just too many avenues for the results to be fiddled.
            I notice the running reports on the 1MW plant are no longer either in ‘ssm’ or recharge mode, after that glaring error was pointed out here. It’s now always reported as ‘stable’. Good to hear. We wouldn’t want it to go into thermal runaway and destroy the test rig, or injure any of the test team.

            I’m still interested to hear what the results are though. 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      This is a patent more on the functional design of a reactor that burns suitable fuel – indeed it lists other candidate fuels by other researchers. It is a patent on high temperature design.

      Rossis Patent is the Master as it is based on the core fuel – the novelty of which is having LiAlH4 as hydrogen source and Lithium as fuel

    • Omega Z

      Yes, Bob.
      How do you reconcile all of what appears to be contradictions.

      Consider Industrial heat was created as a Venture Capital(VC) LLC.
      Industrial heat is invested in Leonardo Corp. as Venture Capital.
      Industrial heat is independent, while also a partner of Leonardo.

      Venture Capitalists can hold an awful lot of control over those they invest in. It all comes down to the details agreed upon.
      Almost always, they will know all the details/secrets of an investment.
      They “May” hold the right to designate/license manufactures.
      They “May” hold the right to designate/license to distribute.
      They “May” hold the right to bring in outside expertise.
      They “May” hold the right to distribute work/R&D to outside researchers.
      ———————————————————————-
      I admit, Some of Rossi’s statements confused me at 1st. But then I remembered reading about Lonnie Johnson & his JTEC- A Solid State Energy converter or Thermal Electric Converter.(Note: The JTEC would be Ideal for a Hot-cat if it works as planned)

      Johnson took on the VC- PARC(Xerox) as a partner in it’s development. Johnson still has majority control, but all the above -They “May” hold- applies. Even tho Johnson has majority control, They call almost all the shots.(They control the purse strings)
      ———————————————————————-
      In this manner, Industrial heat is a separate entity,
      But is an invested partner in Leonardo Corp.
      Rossi has majority control of Leonardo(?).
      Rossi works as the Chief Scientist of Industrial heat.
      But Rossi has no ownership in Industrial heat.

      In case you think this is just a convoluted way to explain away the contradictions, I will tell you I was once involved in a partnership of multiple businesses somewhat of this arrangement. Our purposes was to protect one another in case 1 of us developed health issues or died. It left the survivor with options. Call it a poor mans type of LLC. Limited Liability.

      Note: The patent with just Rossi’s name on it was filed prior to Industrial heat partnership. Also, once granted, said patent can be transferred at a latter date.

    • timycelyn

      I did hear a rumour that there is a move to give the ‘hard liners’ a better voice in the future now that all these clearly incorrect results and mistakes by patent departments are coming out everywhere. They are apparently considering teaming up with other groups who try and keep the faith when the rest of us start chasing rainbows.

      I understand that the new grouping will be called: “The Round Earth, Manned Flight and LENR Debunking Society.”

      Let us all wish that these corageous Guardians of the Truth get the recognition they so justly deserve…..

      😉

      You boy, at the back, stop that sniggering at ONCE!

  • Obvious

    Wiring: (I think “low” goes where I added the asterisk)

    In some embodiments, each of the resistance wires (16) as shown may include two or more wires that are spirally wound together and optionally annealed to facilitate the spirally wound configuration shown in FIGS. 1 and 2. In some embodiments, the electrical current is carried to the resistance wires (16) using a * resistance wire, such as copper, so that the wires (16) produce a larger amount of heat adjacent the chamber (12). In particular embodiments, the wires (16) are 2 guage 15 KA resistance wires, and prior to wrapping the wires (16) around the reactor chamber (12), an electrical current is passed through the wires (16) to reduce shape-memory characteristics. The resistance wire (16) converts electricity to heat by resisting the flow of electrons. The resistance wires (16) may optionally be annealed. For example, a 15 gauge wire with resistance of 2.650 ohms/ft is one example of suitable wire. As with other components of a reactor device (10), attributes of resistance wires (12) or other components of an energy input unit included in and/or otherwise providing energy to the reactive material may vary, and may include devices for heating and/or cooling the device (10) and/or providing electromagnetic radiation to the chamber (12).

    • Obvious

      I’m not getting anywhere with his wire sizes. 2.65 ohms /ft is a lot of resistance for a 15 Ga wire. An order of magnitude more than typical.

  • Obvious

    Wiring: (* I think “low” goes where I added the asterisk below)

    [0076] In some embodiments, each of the resistance wires (16) as shown may include two or more wires that are spirally wound together and optionally annealed to facilitate the spirally wound configuration shown in FIGS. 1 and 2. In some embodiments, the electrical current is carried to the resistance wires (16) using a * resistance wire, such as copper, so that the wires (16) produce a larger amount of heat adjacent the chamber (12). In particular embodiments, the wires (16) are 2 guage 15 KA resistance wires, and prior to wrapping the wires (16) around the reactor chamber (12), an electrical current is passed through the wires (16) to reduce shape-memory characteristics. The resistance wire (16) converts electricity to heat by resisting the flow of electrons. The resistance wires (16) may optionally be annealed. For example, a 15 gauge wire with resistance of 2.650 ohms/ft is one example of suitable wire. As with other components of a reactor device (10), attributes of resistance wires (12) or other components of an energy input unit included in and/or otherwise providing energy to the reactive material may vary, and may include devices for heating and/or cooling the device (10) and/or providing electromagnetic radiation to the chamber (12).

    • Obvious

      I’m not getting anywhere with his wire sizes. 2.65 ohms /ft is a lot of resistance for a 15 Ga wire. An order of magnitude more than typical.

  • Inventors:

    ROSSI, Andrea; (US).
    DAMERON, Thomas Barker; (US)

    Never heard of Tom Dameron myself. Anyone else?

    • Frank Acland

      Not until tonight. He apparently goes by the name of T Barker Dameron, and appears to be a Raleigh NC engineer.

      • yes I just posted his linked in above,

        suddenly he is now famous to all the ecat fanboyz.

        Hi TB!

        :p

  • Adam Lepczak

    The patent application is super detailed. Are you reading this MFMP? Paging Bob Greenyer.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Read it. Between the various replicators we have explored the various configurations except steel Tube – but that may have been superseded. The 3 phase schematics are pretty much the same as the 3D model I published from inference week after Lugano. In some ways – we are advancing faster as a collective.

      We took too long to be able to test Ni + LiAlH4, we bought it day after Lugano and sat on it and did not add Li to our experiments when we were discussing doing it from April last year after Piantelli patent extension.

      Good news is – we were right in focussing on high Al2O3 reactor vessels for *GlowSticks*

      We are to focus on finally adding Lithium and control.

  • Andrew

    Figures 2 through 6 are interesting. Between the last patent and this one someone could almost build their own for testing.

  • Andrew

    Figures 2 through 6 are interesting. Between the last patent and this one someone could almost build their own for testing.

    • Gerald

      Figure 7 is also very interresting. Looks like this picture is borrowed from project dog-bone… My guess indeed that the rate of replications will go up from now. A lot of following/reading this fall/winter.

  • T. Barker Dameron

    Engineer

    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Mechanical or Industrial Engineering

    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/t-barker-dameron/72/b5b/a27

    self employed

    • Buck

      As of August 11, 1998, T.B. Dameron was a high school student from Ravenscroft School visiting the North Carolina State University College of Engineering. It was holding its summer Student Introduction to Engineering (SITE) program for high school students and T.B. Dameron was one of 200 visiting students.

      You will need to do a “find” on Dameron to jump to the citation.

      Link>> https://www.engr.ncsu.edu/news/awards/awards.arc.98.summer.html

      Link>> http://www.ravenscroft.org/

      Congratulations T.B. Dameron . . . your life will be very interesting.

  • Imagine what is happening right now at the Toyota cold fusion laboratory. The Japanese Government is funding LENR research as well.

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2015/08/24/japanese-government-will-fund-lenr-research-again/

    • GreenWin

      Chris, one would hope they are enlightened, enthusiastic, and determined that, “We Don’t Get Fooled Again.”

  • Asterix

    Isn’t one of the criteria for a USPTO application that the patent not hold back any “secrets”? That is, that a competent technician in the field should be able to construct the device for which patent protection is applied. So the MFMP boys ought to be able to lay this patent out on the workbench and come up with w working Hot-Cat, no?

  • Ryan

    While I wholeheartedly support LENR and fully expect to see (well really hope to see) home based, vehicle based and business based power and heating solutions soon from current developments in LENR, I also support study into hot fusion as well, if for no other reason than it could open up new areas of high energy physics. While the Tokamak method is a joke the little guys working on hot fusion should be encouraged to keep looking and working. There is always more to know and other paths to take, to ignore them is folly.

  • Da Phys

    Ok, now that these patents have been filed, what is the mouse? What is the cat?

    • Mats002

      Good question! Axil Axil put forward some ideas but those are about underlying processes at a level I think noone understands today, not even Rossi.

      The mouse is said to have a COP > 1, but just little over 1. If it was not for this statement I would say that the mouse is the heater wire that stimulates the cat to follow.

      The logo suggests to me that the red ball is the mouse and the cat will chase it, as in signals follow or correlate or sync up.

      The mouse can be some additional stimuli like a EM but again the puzzle is in mouse having COP > 1.

      • Da Phys

        I agree. This is puzzling. Actually this patent opens more questions than give answers based on what Rossi said these last months in JONP about his reactor. This gives the impression that he succeeded to master the beast without a clear understanding of it.
        Let’s hope his 1 year trial will succeed because he will still be more under pressure after the publication of the two patents.

        • oldrolledgold

          What is the Airbus (chief?) Scientist going to say in his LENR theory talk in october?

          • Da Phys

            Shhhhh, that’s a secret !

          • as I’ve understood it is just a theory of energy production in physics, not specific to LENR, but where LENR is possible.
            I know he wrote books on physics laws, their structures and the problems associated.

            as I understand it will rather answer to people who say “impossible” but will not help those who want to know how it works.

      • Paul

        The logo was designed by a third person on a creative basis in 2012, before Cat and Mouse tech, then it was proposed to Rossi that adopted it, so there is no relation among the two.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I think it is a size thing and maybe counter intuitive.

        is the CAT Ni (it is physically large compared to Li and is the catalyst in that it creates the necessary processed H2 for the rest of the reaction)

        is the MOUSE Li (because of size – but actually the main part of the yield)

        OR

        Ni + 1H is the mouse (in energy terms) as it creates a yield of a little over 1 (12.5% excess as far as our Celani experiments have show) but can sometimes eject a proton.

        Li then becomes the CAT – the mouse causes it to spring into action and fusion / fission to 2 X 4He giving the big energy game.

        In the end it is a word play to keep people guessing. What matters more is can it be replicated? In April 2014 I was calling very strongly for MFMP members to focus on adding lithium and lithium compounds to all our experimental threads given the new patent extension of Piantelli released at that time and all the historical evidence. It was clear that this is the main energy yield in his thinking.

        • Da Phys

          I agree. Ni+H as Jerry and Li as Tom is what makes the most sense to me.
          Although I’m also convinced that Li is the big player here, I don’t think that Li+H->He4+He4 is the main reaction.

          • Bob Greenyer

            @Da Phys,

            It is

            1. mouse: Ni + H- (1 proton 2 electrons seen as a composite particle and appearing has a “heavy electron” / Muon to Nickel) result is little over COP of 1.

            2. cat: 1H (ejected from failed 1 step) is a proton exceeding 223.6eV that interacts with 7Li – which either goes by two paths to 2 X 4He as shown on lines 12 & 13 of my sheet here

            https://goo.gl/S8kcI7

          • Da Phys

            Yes, in line with Piantelli’s theory. I’m not sure of the last step however, other reactions such as the fission of 6Li+n also makes sense.

          • Bob Greenyer

            except that 6Li is left in the ash.

            One purpose of Piantelli/Focardi work was to find reactions that did not yield n

          • Paul

            Yes but the He4 are higly energetic. Where are the gammas from the subsequent evolution of He4? This is the BIG problem for a physicist!

          • Mats002

            What about this TINY answer: The reaction takes place inside a metal lattice, not in free air as in hot (fast) particle physics.

            CMNS = Condensed Matter Nuclear Science.

          • Paul

            Do you think that He4 with energies of many Mev, that does not survive in condensed matter, can disappear without producing gamma of high energy? If this is your idea, it does not reflect the known physics, you can ask to a nuclear physicist, he will illustrate al the possible processes in detail. Rossi, Focardi and many others, me included, all believe that the E-Cat works with the known physics, not with exotic physics.

          • Mats002

            I don’t know – and I am not a professional in physics – but I believe that this process will reveal some news to the community. Why would physicists know everything at this point in time?

          • Paul

            Oh, this is sure! Physicists considers exotic physics for the E-Cat things like vacuum energy, but things like compact objects or neutron tunneling, for example, are not exotic physics, even if still not observed.

    • Axil Axil

      The mouse produces a muon chain reaction in the Cats that surround the mouse.

  • Da Phys

    Are the results of the isotopic analyses the same as those published in the Lugano report? If the case that would be pretty disappointing because this would suggest (1) Rossi did not perform any other independent isotopic analysis (2) he was not aware of isotopic shifts before Lugano (3) is not more advanced than we are about the understanding of the nuclear reaction. And not saying anything about the authors of the Lugano report who see “their” results in the patent which dicredits the Lugano report and their work which was claimed to be independent.
    Something is wrong here…

    • Paul

      I agree, not citing the authors should be very disappointing for them. But this is not strange from Rossi/IH, in many other occasions they did not show gratitude for those who helped them. This is the ugly side of this story.

      • Bob Greenyer

        They have cited Piantelli, Etiam, Celani and others

        • Da Phys

          Citing someone in a patent as prior art is different from using data obtained by a group of scientists that were publicly sold as independent. If Levi et al were informed that their data could be used in a patent and gave their agreement for it before the publication of the report, then they can hardly be considered as “independent” anymore.
          The first patent was already suffering from the fact that it will be difficult for Rossi to claim priority on the use of LiAlH4 in nickel because Mills from BLP already claimed it several years ago. At the end, these two patents by Rossi are not good news for him, and in turn for the whole LENR community.

          • Freethinker

            I think you are over reacting. Way much.

          • Da Phys

            Future will tell. Would be good to know the opinion of Levi et al.

          • Freethinker

            True. On both counts.

      • Freethinker

        Citing Levi et.al.? It is not a good strategy. It has not been published in a journal, and the work in it has been under constant attack since it came out. The appendices containing abundance analysis are less controversial as such, having been outsourced by labs doing these things regularly. It is not impossible that they are aware and have been informed. Of this we know nothing about.

        • Warthog

          Publication “in a journal” has zero to do with the patenting process. ANY publication can be used to fault a patent application., including, for instance, a verbal presentation at a conference.

          • Freethinker

            Sure. But in terms of credibility in an already difficult, the reference to a battered report, would not improve things. With that said, I do hope that the Lugano team has been in on this front inception, otherwise it would be a not so nice things. But I wish to think they were.

    • Omega Z

      “(2) he was not aware of isotopic shifts before Lugano”

      Rossi was aware of the isotopic shift prior to Lugano.
      What Rossi wasn’t aware of was how much isotopic shift takes place. This was a serendipity moment. Rossi had never run a reactor under power 24/7 for 30 days before. The focus had always been aimed at SSM(Off/On cycles).

      • Da Phys

        Hard to imagine that any data supporting an isotopic shift before Lugano would not appear in the patent filed in Feb 2014. In practice it would have been better to not use the Lugano data to support the claims because now this put Rossi in a difficult situation.

    • it was filed in 2014/2 (priority date) , and probably updated later with lugano report (2014/10)

      • Da Phys

        I hope Rossi did it right and filed the results before October otherwise they can be considered null and void.
        What remains disturbing is the fact that the Lugano report was sold to the public as being independent, with the isotopic results as main results that prove a nuclear reaction. How can some results obtained from an independent group be used in a patent to support its claims? To whom belong the data? Either the data belong to Levi et al and Rossi didn’t have the right to use them in the patent without a contract with Levi et al, which would make Levi et al not independent, or the data belong to Rossi and IH and Levi et al were used as guinea pigs. Hard to not see a manipulation of the information in 2014.
        That said, I really really hope that the 1-year trial will give positive results and be backed up by the consumer otherwise Rossi will be in a difficult position.

        • Andrew

          The Lugano report was published to the public, anyone can use the data how they see fit and doesn’t imply ownership or invalidate the Lugano teams independence. The way I view it is it supports the teams independence, it would have been more benifical to Rossi et al to keep this data guarded until the patent was accepted.

  • Steve R

    With the usual disclaimer that I don’t even play a patent attorney on TV, let me say I think most of these reactions are way off base — this is essentially a design patent. If you look at the actual claims — which are the patentable part, all the rest is dicta — you see that what is described is only a set of possible designs for a reactor chamber and supporting elements. There are no mentions of the “fuel” or any claim for the reaction itself — not even that it produces energy.
    Of course, if you have deep pockets and good lawyers, design patents are useful whether or not they are really unique (cf. Apple and round corners). But those claims wouldn’t need the level of background found in this patent.
    We might ask why, then. And my guess is that this is part of the defensive arm of a larger patent strategy. I would guess — and it’s only a guess — that there are other as-yet-unpublished applications which do make direct claims for elements such as the fuel and the process. And somewhere in the IH-Rossi camp, there’s been a decision that those applications are sufficiently broad for their purposes. However, to fend off any future claims by others who might successfully claim a variation of the process that IH et all didn’t anticipate, they are doing a giant data dump to get as much as possible published — which makes it prior art and thus unprotectable by any future patent (though not a deterrent to any IH et al applications already in the works).
    By the way,, the view that this is a minor design patent would also explain why we have a relatively unknown mechanical engineer as the co-inventor.

  • EmTee

    I was not able to view or download the 157 page US .pdf but the .zip (tif+.xml) ???
    https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000030381626/PDOC/WO2015127263.pdf

    • EmTee

      No problem two h later. Overload?

  • Bob Greenyer

    New Fire Recipe?

    GS3 *GlowStick* design reactor (AL2O3)

    LaNi5H7 (HydroStik – do not charge with H2, take out powder) $20 see here for info https://goo.gl/eE3Pbz

    LiAlH4 ( for Hydrogen release, need enough in sealed vessel to get to above 40 bar )

    Free Lithium or better http://goo.gl/tmnECV

    Bit of straight carbonyl Nickel for good measure

    1. Heat core to below 179ºC – release 40+ bar of H2 from LiAlH4 – wait for LaNi5 to load
    2. Raise temperature above melting point of Lithium quickly so it wets to Nickel before becoming LiH

    temperature and proportions to be varied perhaps some selective RF

    Now – Go bake a cake!

    • Mark

      Hi Bob,
      is the MFMP planning new experiments after the new informations disclosed by these patents?

      • Bob Greenyer

        We are bringing forward our planned addition of elemental lithium – this and its hydrides was something I had lobbied heavily for since April 2014 Piantelli patent extension was published

        It will allow us to feel confident to switch back to Al2O3 – given that this is what is claimed as being used in Lugano effectively.

        • Mark

          Thanks for the answer.

        • wpj

          What about the addition of aluminium (claim 10)?

          • Bob Greenyer

            look at this chart on wikipedia

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_aluminium_hydride#/media/File:Lialh4_dsc.svg

            the reactor is said to work from 250ºC – that means when the ionic Li + H- is first formed (LiH) – then if you take it to above 400ºC – the H is released and it forms LiAl which is a solid up to 702-720ºC apparently – having more Lithium will reduce this and leave LiAl in solution with molten Li. See this phase diagram

            http://pruffle.mit.edu/3.00/Lecture_36_web/img7.gif

            Adding 30%+ Lithium combines with the 50/50 atomic ratio in LiAlH4 to lower the melting point of the combined metals towards 200ºC to 300ºC

            2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2

            “Is reversible with an equilibrium pressure of about 0.25 bar at 500 °C”

            see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_aluminium_hydride

            so this means you can make and destroy ionic Li+ H- (LiH) that will be in direct contact on or in porous Ni by varying temperature alone – you can make H- at will.

    • Da Phys

      I suggest to go first with LiBH4 instead of LiAlH4. If neutron transfer is at play, something I believe, Al can only hurt, B can only help.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Boron melts at a SUPER high temp and so would hinder reaction dynamics.

        The ash of Rossi reactors suggest it is not Neutrons

      • wpj

        As I mention above, Claim 10 of the previous patent suggests the addition of aluminium to react with LAH to produce hydrogen- maybe this is useful for the low temperature systems.

  • I believe Rossi started to understand the importance of adding Lithium, and also successfully starting to do this, in early 2011. In February he went to see the people in Uppsala — late prof. Kullander, Dr Essén, prof Ikegami and others (I was there too), and afterwards he highlighted the inspiration he got from Ikegami’s work, involving the use of liquid lithium.

    Here’s from my book, in the beginning of chapter 11:

    “An event for which he expressed particular gratitude was the meeting with the Swedish physicists Kullander and Essén in late February 2011.

    Beyond the support of their report upon visiting Bologna, their knowledge had given him new and important ideas, particularly the report on Ikegami’s research on cold fusion that Professor Kullander had given to him. During the flight back from Stockholm via Paris to Rome, he was so focused on the new ideas that the trip seemed to take mere seconds. Back in Rome, he immediately started to prepare an experiment using a modified reactor, according to the new ideas. He was enthusiastic about his plan in an email to the Swedish professors: ‘God wanted us to meet,’ he wrote, then began to work day and night on the new design. After two days, he wrote again: ‘I won!’

    He told me that through stubborn work with his experiments he had managed to increase the reactor efficiency by about 30 percent. “I’m living the best time of my life,” he concluded the e-mail.”

    (An Imposible Invention, chapter 11).

    The email with “I won” was written on February 27, 2011.

    Mats

    • Bob Greenyer

      Piantellis patent extension, mentioning Lithium as key to high yield has a priority date of Apr 26, 2011

      Filing date of Apr 26, 2012

      http://goo.gl/mJTKLA

      Things are going to get interesting!

      • wpj

        Again, Claim 1 involves hydrogen gas and Claim 2 for Lithium is dependent on claim 1, so the use of LAH by Rossi rather than hydrogen (although it might be generated in situ) escapes any claims of this patent.

        • Da Phys

          On the other hand LAH+Ni has already been claimed by Mills.

          • wpj

            Yes, but has Ni/LAH/Li? That’s really the crux of the matter and in the proportions claimed in the patent.

          • Da Phys

            I agree with you that the new element, and probably the most important one, is the addition of pure Li in the mix. That said, given all precedent claims in all other patents involved, this patent protects its owner but does not hinder others to use similar systems.

          • Bob Greenyer

            at the end of the day – this is so important there are only three possible outcomes

            1. heaters made so cheap – pointless to make your own
            2. people make their own
            3. compulsory licensing so 1 occurs

            I would prefer IH make licensing cost nominal (but still phenomenally lucrative) for core patent uses. And the world can get to work on bringing the value and benefits of the technology to all.

          • I was wrong. Rossi told me today that he was already using lithium in 2011, which makes sense when I think about it. I remembered that when Kullander had an analysis made of the powder samples that Rossi handed over in Februari 2011, lithium was found. And now when Rossi’s patent has been granted, he actually says he always considered nickel to be the ‘catalyst’ and lithium the fuel. Claiming that nickel was the fuel, as he did back then, apparently was a way to mislead others.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Makes sense.

          • artefact

            Otherwise we would still be missing the secret catalyst.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The leaked report from 17/01/2013 is the one I know

            It was ash from a six month test in 2012

            http://pesn.com/2014/10/13/9602545_Leaked-Second-Paper_With_High-Magnification_of_Rossis-Nickel-Particles_Brings_Replication_Closer/

            as EDX was used – Li would not be seen

            It does look like there was a “coating” on the ash – and as Al was not seen – it was likely that he was not using LiAlH4 at that time but remotely provided H2.

          • bachcole

            I was wrong.

            I can tell that Mats is not an American.

            (:->)

          • This seems to be quite an important revelation that is not only relevant to the history of development of the e-cat, but also confirms Rossi’s use of ‘misdirection’ in his comments on JONP. Most followers of this saga will be able to think of a number of other apparent examples of this technique that have given rise to all sorts of erroneous speculation here and on other blogs.

          • Bob Greenyer

            wpj

            Rossi has novelty

            nano powders

            in situ H2 production and the most novel aspect is liquid lithium on the H loaded Nickel – I hope he has this documented clearly in patents already submitted – because this is the great leap.

          • wpj

            Interesting; I have just noticed claim 10 of the first patent and there is a claim for adding aluminium as well to react with the LAH to produce hydrogen.

          • Sanjeev

            The patent says proportions are not important.

          • wpj

            Yes, but it gives limits for each one.

          • wpj

            Apologies, you are correct; it is not in the claims but in the text.

      • Gerard McEk

        This all means that Li plays a much more prominent role in LENR. That is the fuel being used and we have to realize that this is not as abundant as Ni, which is only a catalyzer and not being ‘used’ as such. The market pressure on Li will increase enormously. I hope also other metals (more abundant) will be found.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I think Lithium may get cheaper as things will have less need for batteries – especially Lithium hogging EVs.

          A VERY small amount of Li from the battery packs in one Tesla will provide energy for the lifetime of normal car.

          • artefact
          • Elon Musk Unimpressed By Battery Breakthroughs http://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/06/elon-musk-unimpressed-battery-breakthroughs/

            Musk Cuts Through Battery BS: “Show Us the Beef” (updated, w/video) http://whereselon.com/musk-cuts-through-battery-bs-show-us-the-beef/

            Musk Comments on Battery Industry BS http://whereselon.com/musk-comments-on-battery-industry-bs/

            I wouldn’t bet against Elon when it comes to batteries. Lithium ion will be a useful EV battery for a very long time.

          • artefact

            I still hope for graphen:
            youtube com/watch?v=8TkwoHgkuR0
            “1 MegaFarad Supercapacitor – Nearly There”

          • Bob Greenyer

            yes

          • Zephir

            You cannot believe the mass media and inventors outlets in this matter. They support the grid and energy storage solutions, not cold fusion. In particular, the 1000 F supercapacitor is nothing special, you can buy these at EBay.

          • Navigant: Global market for EV Li-ion batteries will quadruple by 2024. buff.ly/1VgG33I

            The upward trajectory that Li-ion is on with regard to EVs is not going
            to be quelched in the least by a successfully commercialized ecat. As
            Rossi said, ecats in cars is decades away.

          • bachcole

            Also, communist regimes (Bolivia) tend to be self-limiting time-wise. This would free up an enormous amount of easily obtainable lithium.

          • Alain Samoun

            Yep! Let steal their Lithium damn commies!

          • bachcole

            Actually, I did not say that at all. You deliberately misrepresented stated my position so that you could make me look bad. “over stated” is another word for a lie. You told a lie in order to make me look bad. It is exactly like what you progressives do when you call all of your opponents “racists”.

            I said let the current dumb-ass regime run it’s course naturally (since all communist regimes do, sort of like Jonestown), and when they are finished acting like 12 year olds, grown-up people who still have initiate can go into Bolivia as start making some money selling it to the rest of us who need it.

          • Gerard McEk

            That’s a good one Bob. I hope that we can get LENR so efficient that we can produce electricity with it. Maybe I buy a Tesl as an (lithium investment ;-).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Cheaper to have a “recycling bin” at your local supermarket for old Lithium batteries – provide a public service.

        • Pedro

          Hi Gerard,

          Remember that we always thought Nickle was the fuel? I remember that
          there where some worries about how much Nickle that would need and what that would do to the price of Nickel, etc. Some people did calculations and it turned out that in order to generate all the energy that the world consumes today, we would need approx. 1% of the current Nickle production.

          Now with the patent publishing the fuel composition, we know there may be a 2nd ‘bottleneck’, being the amount of Lithium needed.

          I did some checking on Wikipedia and it turns out there seems to be no problem (assuming that the 1% of Nickle was correct)…
          world production of Nickle is abount 2 Million Metric Tons and total
          known reserves are about 75 MMT. Lithium production is 0.65 MMT and
          reserves stand at 13 MMT.

          So Lithium production is about 1/3rd of Nickle production and we need less Lithium than Nickle in the fuel, this would translate to 1 or 2% of world Lithium production.

          If cold fusion based ‘batteries’ would be developped, replacing Lion batteries, we might end up using less Lithium then we use currently since a Lion battery most likely uses 100-1000 times more lithium than a CF device.

        • Zephir

          I do agree, many cold fusion experiments (Niedra and all) were constrained to potassium, the reserves of which are essentially inexhaustible. But we should do more experiments, not just twaddle at public forums. The official physicists will not do it for us.

      • Paul

        For this reason Rossi is interested in Piantellis patent, as we’ll probable see…

    • Uncle Bob

      Hey Mats, Do you find it very strange that the original demonstrations which you and others saw, introduced hydrogen into the reactor in the form of pressurized Hydrogen gas from a cylinder, and did not use LAH at all, and yet still came up with the same COP of six?
      The proof that LAH was not used is in the fact that hydrogen had to be added from a cylinder.

      Wouldn’t that tend to indicate that significant power LENR is easy to achieve by a number of different methods, and yet no-one else seems to be able to extract more than a token suggestion of LENR from many similar tests?

      • I think Rossi already used lithium in the fuel powder. However — the accuracy was never very good in any of the tests I assisted so we cannot know for sure what the COP was. On the other hand, several times Rossi apparently experienced runaway reactions, or close runaway, e.g. when Levi made the test with flowing water and no boiling, and at those occasions COP seemed to be much higher, although with poor control of the reaction.

  • stranno

    I found this about the world wide reserves of Lithium:

    How Much Lithium We Need

    http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/

    • Dods

      That article was posted in 2010 and I think huge deposits of rare earth minerals have scince been found in Afghanisitan.

      According to a joint report by the Pentagon, the US Geological Survey (USGS) and USAID, Afghanistan is now said to possess “previously unknown” and untapped mineral reserves, estimated authoritatively to be of the order of one trillion dollars (New York Times, U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan – NYTimes.com, June 14, 2010, See also BBC, 14 June 2010).

      “The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

      An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the “Saudi Arabia of lithium,” a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys.

      taken from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghanistan-s-vast-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769

    • US_Citizen71

      There is always the method of extracting Lithium from the brine left over from desalinization plants as well. Desalinization will likely become a more common method of obtain freshwater as LENR is adopted.

  • Sanjeev

    Nice to see IH in action !
    As many have noticed, most of the patent is based on the Lugano report. Its included in its totality there. So it seems that the Lugano test was conducted entirely for the purpose of this patent (as many suspected in past), and this can explain the cooperative behavior of Rossi and IH towards the testing team and the unwillingness of the team to conduct a proper peer review or to even answer the questions or objection. The test served it purpose and nothing more needed to be done.
    This patent does provide a little more information other than what’s already in the Lugano report, such as, NiH can be used (and the reactor need not be air tight if this is done), various materials for sealing and for resistive heater. It seems, they are not trying to patent the formula itself, only the embodiments.

    This patent, again, avoided the taboo words CF, lenr or any other “physics law breaking” terms, which makes it a good candidate for final grant. We may see many more patents appearing in near future, Rossi had announced that IH/Rossi is making “great work” for patenting their IP and they are probably working on some 100 patents.

  • Sanjeev

    Nice to see IH in action !
    As many have noticed, most of the patent is based on the Lugano report. Its included in its totality there. So it seems that the Lugano test was conducted entirely for the purpose of this patent (as many suspected in past), and this can explain the cooperative behavior of Rossi and IH towards the testing team and the unwillingness of the team to conduct a proper peer review or to even answer the questions or objection. The test served it purpose and nothing more needed to be done.
    This patent does provide a little more information other than what’s already in the Lugano report, such as, NiH can be used (and the reactor need not be air tight if this is done), various materials for sealing and for resistive heater. It seems, they are not trying to patent the formula itself, only the embodiments.

    This patent, again, avoided the taboo words CF, lenr or any other “physics law breaking” terms, which makes it a good candidate for final grant. We may see many more patents appearing in near future, Rossi had announced that IH/Rossi is making “great work” for patenting their IP and they are probably working on some 100 patents.

  • bachcole

    Keep in mind, folks, that this is a filing, not a granting. It will mean a lot to believers, but it will mean nothing to disbelievers.

    And it is much more likely to impress those who are in between believing and disbelieving. And it will help those believers who are trying to replicate.

    • Barbierir

      I agree but this definitely demonstrates that IH is fully behind Rossi, they’re not the naive investors scammed by con-man tricks

    • Warthog

      Well, the filing of an INTERNATIONAL patent application strongly verifies IH’s belief in the product. Filing international is EXPENSIVE….you don’t do that for “paper patents”.

  • bachcole

    So, who is Thomas Barker Dameron. I never heard of him before. I do believe that it illustrates that we the peanut gallery are seeing far less than what is actually happening.

    • An engineer working for IH. I asked Rossi.

      • Barbierir

        He must have made some important contribution, did Rossi said anything about this?

        • US_Citizen71

          My guess is he was the one who designed and moulded the HotCat out of refractory cement for the Lugano Test.

  • GreenWin

    ” The habit of automatically assuming a “worst case scenario” and
    inappropriately characterizing minor or moderate problems or issues as
    catastrophic events.”
    http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Catastrophizing.html

    Uncle Bob,

    a few of us understand your frustration. A bit of advice: take care to read the expiration date on any food product. Lest you eat humble pie. 🙂

  • Dods

    That article was posted in 2010 and I think huge deposits of rare earth minerals have scince been found in Afghanisitan.

    According to a joint report by the Pentagon, the US Geological Survey (USGS) and USAID, Afghanistan is now said to possess “previously unknown” and untapped mineral reserves, estimated authoritatively to be of the order of one trillion dollars (New York Times, U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan – NYTimes.com, June 14, 2010, See also BBC, 14 June 2010).

    “The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

    An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the “Saudi Arabia of lithium,” a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys.

    taken from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghanistan-s-vast-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769

  • Navdrew
  • Robyn Wyrick

    I find it fascinating that, even with Rossi’s patent, the news media is completely silent. I have seen all kinds of major news outlets crow about the various claims (not tests) of Hot Fusion engineers and their companies.

    But after numerous concurring (or similar) papers by LENR researchers, after two independent E-Cat tests, after being bought by IH, after countless attacks and vindications, and after even the USPTO caves, still the media is silent.

    Even for me, having watched untold failures of the news media over my lifetime, this is shocking.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hot Fusion and private organisations use some of their sizeable budgets in “paid news” – press releases etc.

      For the former it is justifying to the public – for the latter it is to attract investors.

      The paid news in India is ridiculous, but you’ll be surprised what you think is news is actually tied to advertising spend – both positive and negative.

      I worked on an advert for a loan company in the UK whilst I was visiting Piantelli. The script for the song read “Bank says no, where do you go” – the advert was rejected by a MAJOR commercial TV satellite provider in the UK because they did not want to offend their banking advertisers.

    • bachcole

      Not to worry. The more they resist, the worse they are going to look when it becomes obvious. Remember that one of the benefits of LENR is the revolution in thought and the destruction of the ivory towers.

      • But we should make backups of the most pathoskeptic sites and persons.
        Because they will clean their past very quick and proper…

        • bachcole

          Absolutely.

          • Mats002

            Ha ha – yes! Some people don’t care what they say the main thing for them is THAT they say. Changing mind is not an obsticle for those types of people.

    • Paul

      Yes, the media have a clear agenda on the subject. However, the main mistake is of IH because they haven’t a serious press office, or they haven’t at all. News does not come from nothing, a press release was needed, another occasion lost. I wonder who will buy the E-Cat without preparing the field in advance.

      • Nigel Appleton

        I think that the media are simply stupid, and have lost sight of their mission to investigate and inform
        Standards of journalism are so low as to be non existent

    • Fyodor

      Until there is a reliably reproducible test that produces clear excess heat or a publicly available commercial product, LENR it won’t be accepted. Hopefully the disclosures in these patents will allow replicators to develop such a test.

      • Paul

        Not exactly, if A makes a test but B, C, D throw “brown matter” against A in various forms (criticisms, papers and other), the general public will not believe to A. This is what is already happened. Also NASA has made many endorsments on the LENR but nothing is changed. You will not see any change until IH makes on the media what is doing with the patents: pay the best news agencies to make news and sues magazines and scientists who write not justfied criticisms.

        • rght, good description.
          for example there is good evidence, of LENR, of tritium, of heat/helium, of transmutaion, with replications, good sigma, …
          but immediately a clown say it is dubious, and everybody swallow the doubt to stay quiet in the armchair.

          this is why when someone claim there is an artifact, and bring no evidence you just have to say it is a tinfoil hat…
          when the claim are absurd, it is tin foil hat.

          those guys use tactics of denialist, of conspiracy theorist, no less… they are tinfoil hat.

      • LCD

        Look the next move on the chessboard is replication of Rossi patent. Then check mate.

        Unfortunately for Rossi and his patent team this will be one of the most scrutinized and replicated patents in history, maybe the most ever.

        If you are a spectator it will be a fun ride.

    • timycelyn

      The ongoing news blackout on the BBC has destroyed my remaining faith in that organisation’s output, naive though it may have been.

      I’ve watched enough documentaries on Panorama and the like to know they are very able to report a controversy over some possible new technology like this, they have a very well-trodden path for it. It’s a SOP for them.

      On the one side, interviews with a few of the CF big names, and whatever they can get out of IH. On the other side Pomp, whatever idiots they can dredge up from the US deniers, and so on. Ending with a suitable ‘statement of the bl**dy obvious’ summary, in best BBC style. All done – another 40 minute slot filled.

      Instead, absolutley nothing. Zilch, nada, zip.

      I still firmly believe they are the ‘least worst’ option in the electronic ‘light’ news media (think Fox!!), but I now take their output with a big pinch of salt.

      I’m sad about that…..

      • Agaricus

        Hi Tim. As you suggest, perhaps its just as well they stay quiet on the subject, given the BBC’s recent treatment of topics such as radiation hazards from Fukushima and Sellafield (with ‘Jim’ Al-Khalili leading the ‘nothing to worry about’ charge), and their blanket coverage of ‘climate change’ propaganda.

        If people want facts, the BBC has become one of the last places to look for them.

        • timycelyn

          HI Peter, hope everything is OK with you! We’re still dreaming about thee K&A, but I am about to book a 3 week docking next Feb, so that’s my ‘Spey’ boating time for 2016 shot…. sigh.

          You’re probably right, and that saddens me even more. Truly, even 10 years ago I still had a pretty deep respect for the BBC. Now I’m dubious if they tell me as a firm fact that it’s raining outside….

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I find it fascinating that, even with Rossi’s patent, the news media is completely silent. I have seen all kinds of major news outlets crow about the various claims (not tests) of Hot Fusion engineers and their companies.

    But after numerous concurring (or similar) papers by LENR researchers, after two independent E-Cat tests, after being bought by IH, after countless attacks and vindications, and after even the USPTO caves, still the media is silent.

    Even for me, having watched untold failures of the news media over my lifetime, this is shocking.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Hot Fusion and private organisations use some of their sizeable budgets in “paid news” – press releases etc.

      For the former it is justifying to the public – for the latter it is to attract investors.

      The paid news in India is ridiculous, but you’ll be surprised what you think is news is actually tied to advertising spend – both positive and negative.

      I worked on an advert for a loan company in the UK whilst I was visiting Piantelli. The script for the song read “Bank says no, where do you go” – the advert was rejected by a MAJOR commercial TV satellite provider in the UK because they did not want to offend their banking advertisers.

    • bachcole

      Not to worry. The more they resist, the worse they are going to look when it becomes obvious. Remember that one of the benefits of LENR is the revolution in thought and the destruction of the ivory towers.

      • But we should make backups of the most pathoskeptic sites and persons.
        Because they will clean their past very quick and proper in the moment they realize that they will benefit from changing their minds…

        • bachcole

          Absolutely.

          • Mats002

            Ha ha – yes! Some people don’t care what they say the main thing for them is THAT they say. Changing mind is not an obsticle for those types of people.

          • bachcole

            We must teach them to be more careful in what they say and look more closely at evidence.

    • Paul

      Yes, the media have a clear agenda on the subject. However, the main mistake is of IH because they haven’t a serious press office, or they haven’t at all. News does not come from nothing, a press release was needed, another occasion lost. I wonder who will buy the E-Cat without preparing the field in advance.

      • bachcole

        You may want to rethink your assumption that it is a mistake that IH hasn’t had a press release. If they think like I think, I would want to embarrass the elites and the media as much as possible. The best way to do this is to let them sleep for as long as possible.

        • Stephen Savage

          Exactly!

          • Uncle Bob

            Although you might like to also keep in mind that this application was lodged in October 2014. That’s 10 months ago and long before the current one year test of the 1MW plant which began in February 2015.

            And you can also keep in mind that a filing such as this is not scribbled out in a day or two. They take months of careful preparation, drafts and edits before submitting. (although I must concede the earlier LENR patent application looked like it may have taken all of two days to prepare, but then that one failed).

            This application probably began in early 2014 and was prepared on the same basis which was used to buy into the ‘partnership’. i.e the results as indicated in the Lugano report.
            More than a year later, they might be leaning towards a different assessment.

          • Brent Buckner

            Sure. OTOH, Darden addressed ICCF in April 2015, so I gather that in April 2015 he had relatively high confidence that he could make other worthwhile investments in LENR – that however things were going with Rossi/Leonardo on the business front, on the technology front Darden had (on balance) strong evidence.

        • Brent Buckner

          I don’t think Darden/IH would be crafting a media strategy with an end goal of embarrassing elites and media, I think they’d be more focused on commercial strategy. Maybe they’d rather potential blockers sleep (e.g. avoiding FUD campaigns over the term “nuclear”), or maybe they’d rather have one big bang later (figuratively on page 1 of the business section) than a steady stream of smaller announcements (figuratively buried in small type in “Science and Technology”).

        • Jarea

          This is a brave assumption. Why should a company think so emotionally? What do you prefer? give lessons to current journalist (i think they will not learn anyway) or speed up LENR adoption?
          In my opinion, media doesn´t work because they are not independent. They are controlled by gatekeepers that decide that LENR either 1 it must not be published because it cause damage for them or 2 it is not interesting (it doesn´t give you enough money). This independently of the option of being a fraud or not.
          I tend to the option 1 because it is obvious that there are many people with hunger for reading about cold fusion even with the eternal discussion about fraud. We see with the news and promises from mainstream fusion those news come to public even if they are void.

          The option 1 is based on the fact that most of the media newspapers are controlled by finance system. In other words, they are controlled big oil.
          http://www.theglobalmovement.info/wp/areas-of-focus/global-financial-war/who-controls-the-media

          • mcloki

            You don’t put out a press release til there is something to sell. touting your own horn just ends up embarrassing the reporters and news site when things do not come to pass.

          • bachcole

            I talk to people all of the time about LENR (and reporters are people), and they are not interested much in it, because it is not proven and is outside of the box.

          • Jarea

            As said that is not proportional to other topics i see in the news. Hot fusion for example always make void promises and it is there. Graphene is always the future material with millions of applications and it is there for years. Here, we also have news and have facts, steps to commercialization and nothing is said.

          • bachcole

            That does not prove a conspiracy. It proves, like with homeopathy, that no one knows the mechanism, so they are very reluctant to believe in it. When the dollars start flowing for A.R./I.H. with no lawsuits, then they will believe.

          • Zephir

            It’s pluralistic ignorance – actually a dual mechanism to conspiracy. The conspiracy is always organized, the pluralistic ignorance is always emergent.

          • bachcole

            I like “pluralistic ignorance”. The more of an echo chamber a group is, the more their biases guide them towards stupidity. If you talk to any one individual, they may seem like very intelligence and righteous people. But as a group, they talk each other into stupid and biased attitudes and behaviours.

          • LCD

            Big difference in hot fusion vs LENR. The work in hot fusion up until very recently has been public whereas the good LENR stuff is all private.

          • the media are in some way manipulated.
            Sonygate have shown haow USA gov was buying propaganda film agains Putin and Daesh.
            Jtrig is well manipulating the social media to make meme spred well.like rent fake claim of a leak on the number of russian soldier in dombass, and at the same time the coverage of nazi Azov exactions around marioupol… MH17 is a good example on how twitter was used to spread a disinformation campaign, that is running freewheel like anti-lenr meme.

            however most of media bias is simply groupthink, sometime started by previous manipulations.

            through terror against the dissenters, intellectual isolation, the journalists start to think the same, and if not to speak the same. they refuse to cover some idea to save their image, their salary, their hope of career…

            I remember the explanation, from an economic point of view, of the creation of fox news. in fact the US media sphere was ignoring a big part of US political opinion, infusing in a general consensus which was far from the position of a noticeable part of US opinion. Fox News was just the only dissenting voice in that consensus.
            I don’t like their position, but they are the symptom, the alternative of the groupthink of the rest of the system.

          • I disagree on blaming oil and finance.
            the finance newspaper are much more open to LENR than average.
            the oild company have replicated and published results.

            who oppose LENR is first physicists, US academic society, US high impact journals, US DoE, US media, then western journal and media follow the terrors, and scientists follow the media.
            This is a physicist and Ivy league problems, rest is slavery chain.

          • bachcole

            Listen to AlainCo. Despite his abysmal English, he knows what is going on. Very few people understand the psychology, sociology, physics, and history of LENR at the same time as well as AlainCo.

          • Zephir

            Yes, this is a correct identification of problem. Just these people and their research is threatened with E-Cat finding the most. Oil companies have nothing to worry about as the oil will be needed anyway for plastic and chemical industry.

          • Jarea

            I still think the newspaper owners have to be blamed. You can always publish something objective, something that is not saying anything against the physic laws and therefore not confronting the physicists and academic society. Normally, what physicist critic from journalist is that they assume very fast that something works or it is a revolution. That can be avoided in their articles and still appear in the media.
            In other words, in my opinion, media leaders must also be blamed together with the academic corruption.

        • im sure darden is not the total dick you make him sound like

      • Brent Buckner

        Perhaps IH is working through existing business and personal connections. Part of the attraction for early adopters could be having a cost-advantage over their competitors – in which case IH may want an aura of privilege/exclusivity in the earlier years of roll-out. I suspect that Darden et al. have a deep enough Rolodex to sell-out their initial manufacturing run.

        • Agreed. They will most likely initially employ some form of ‘hire purchase’ agreement with performance guarantees and possibly with free upgrade provisions, in order to defray capital risk on the part of customers. With data from the current trial available for inspection, there will be no problem at all in finding homes for any number of the devices through contacts, ‘word of mouth’ and later, through industry publications if required.

          IMHO this has been IH/Darden’s strategy from the outset, meaning that publicity is not only not required but is actually undesirable, at least until a number of installations are in place and earning their keep. It is only after this stage is complete and a market for cold fusion water heaters/LP steam generators is established that more disruptive products using spin-off technologies will be gradually introduced, at which time a commercial website and the usual marketing activities will become essential.

      • Nigel Appleton

        I think that the media are simply stupid, and have lost sight of their mission to investigate and inform
        Standards of journalism are so low as to be non existent

      • Michael S

        I would rather say its “vivons heureux – vivons caché” which is translated “a hidden life is a happy life”. It suits AR/IH to not get to much attention yet. They still have to do a lot of setting up things and probably also have to find a major strategic partner (if thats not done yet – maybe IH just a “front” for more heavy but still shy involvement of GE/UT/Siemens or the like). Just imagine the 100 of millions $ that will be invested in research all over the planet once its mainstream. ALL battery research teams will jump on this immediately (Lithium Ion is a joke in energy density once Lenr is “proven”). Plus big big pressure from desperate stakeholders who can’t deny anymore….Better stay hidden until your strong

    • Fyodor

      Until there is a reliably reproducible test that produces clear excess heat or a publicly available commercial product, LENR it won’t be accepted. Hopefully the disclosures in these patents will allow replicators to develop such a test.

      • Paul

        Not exactly, if A makes a test but B, C, D throw “brown matter” against A in various forms (criticisms, papers and other), the general public will not believe to A. This is what is already happened. Also NASA has made many endorsments on the LENR but nothing is changed. You will not see any change until IH makes on the media what is doing with the patents: pay the best news agencies to make news and sues magazines and scientists who write not justfied criticisms.

        • rght, good description.
          for example there is good evidence, of LENR, of tritium, of heat/helium, of transmutaion, with replications, good sigma, …
          but immediately a clown say it is dubious, and everybody swallow the doubt to stay quiet in the armchair.

          this is why when someone claim there is an artifact, and bring no evidence you just have to say it is a tinfoil hat…
          when the claim are absurd, it is tin foil hat.

          those guys use tactics of denialist, of conspiracy theorist, no less… they are tinfoil hat.

      • LCD

        Look the next move on the chessboard is replication of Rossi patent. Then check mate.

        Unfortunately for Rossi and his patent team this will be one of the most scrutinized and replicated patents in history, maybe the most ever.

        If you are a spectator it will be a fun ride.

    • timycelyn

      The ongoing news blackout on the BBC has destroyed my remaining faith in that organisation’s output, naive though it may have been.

      I’ve watched enough documentaries on Panorama and the like to know they are very able to report a controversy over some possible new technology like this, they have a very well-trodden path for it. It’s a SOP for them.

      On the one side, interviews with a few of the LENR big names, and whatever they can get out of IH. On the other side Pomp, whatever idiots they can dredge up from the US deniers, and so on. Ending with a suitable ‘statement of the bl**dy obvious’ summary, in best BBC style. All done – another 40 minute slot filled.

      Instead, absolutley nothing. Zilch, nada, zip.

      I still firmly believe they are the ‘least worst’ option in the electronic ‘light’ news media (think Fox!!), but I now take their output with a big pinch of salt.

      I’m sad about that…..

      • Hi Tim. As you suggest, perhaps its just as well they stay quiet on the subject, given the BBC’s recent treatment of topics such as radiation hazards from Fukushima and Sellafield (with Jameel ‘Jim’ Al-Khalili leading the ‘nothing to worry about’ charge), and their blanket espousal of scaremongering ‘climate change’ propaganda.

        If people want facts, the BBC has become one of the last places to look for them.

        • timycelyn

          HI Peter, hope everything is OK with you! We’re still dreaming about the K&A, but I am about to book a 3 week docking next Feb, so that’s my ‘Spey’ boating time for 2016 shot…. sigh.

          You’re probably right, and that saddens me even more. Truly, even 10 years ago I still had a pretty deep respect for the BBC. Now I’m dubious if they tell me as a firm fact that it’s raining outside….

  • as I’ve understood it is just a theory of energy production in physics, not specific to LENR, but where LENR is possible.
    I know he wrote books on physics laws, their structures and the problems associated.

    as I understand it will rather answer to people who say “impossible” but will not help those who want to know how it works.

  • Warthog

    Well, the filing of an INTERNATIONAL patent application strongly verifies IH’s belief in the product. Filing international is EXPENSIVE….you don’t do that for “paper patents”.

  • Dr. Mike

    For those that have taken the effort to read the patent application, you will find that this patent application is essentially an attempt to patent the Lugano device using the results from the Lugano report as evidence of a working device. Unfortunately, the errors in the Lugano report that have been discussed extensively on this website have not corrected in this patent application. These major errors include:
    1. The measured temperatures in the active device were probably off by more than 100-200C due to emissivity errors. (Thomas Clarke gave a comprehensive explanation of these errors.)
    2. The patent application in sections 00136-00138 still claims that the RMS current in “C2” lines is 1/2 that of the “C1” lines rather than the correct 1/SQRT(3).
    3. In section 00177, Table 7, the Joule heating in the wires indicates that large RMS currents were measured in the active runs. The argument that some commenters presented for an explanation of these large currents was that the heater coils were not really made of Inconel, but rather some unknown material that had an extremely large negative temperature coefficient of resistance. However this patent application in section 00103 states that the heater wires were really Inconel. Since Inconel resistance changes by less than 10% from room temperature to active operating temperature, either the Joule heating calculations in Table 7 are incorrect or the input power measurements are incorrect.
    Rossi really should have made an effort to address these issues before including them in his patent application.
    Dr. Mike

    • Bob Greenyer

      Unfortunate yes.

    • LCD

      What were the actual claims though, that’s the really important part?

      • Dr. Mike

        LCD,
        You are certainly correct that the big picture is the isotropic changes of the Ni (and the Li). Both the calorimetry errors (as calculated by Thomas Clarke) and the possible error in the power measurements indicate a COP fairly close to 1.0, rather than the >3 as claimed in the Lugano report.
        In my estimation the really important part is not that there is potentially an error in the COP calculation, it’s that the review process of the Lugano report on this website did not result in additional investigation to resolve those possible errors. If the report had been submitted for publication in a reputable scientific journal, the reviewers would have asked for additional data or experimentation to resolve the questions that have been asked by the reviewers of the report on this website. A revised paper would have been published when all questions were resolved. It is obvious that we will never see a revised Lugano report.
        Dr. Mike

        • Mark S.

          Another experiment and report by the investigators could be thought of as an update or revision. I believe that is what they are currently doing.

          • Dr. Mike

            Mark S.
            I agree if the new experiment and report answers the unresolved issues in the initial report. It would be trivial to measure the RMS current and the RMS voltage of each heater winding. Also, the investigators now know that they need to run the control run up to 1200-1300C for a time period necessary to achieve a steady-state temperature (probably less than 10 minutes?). One final requirement of a new experiment is make sure that the dummy run is supplied with the same additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” as used in the active run (see page 1 of the Lugano report). There was no mention in the discussion of the dummy run that these additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” were supplied during the dummy run, and the equipment used to supply these additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” is not included in the Figure 4 Wiring Diagram on page 5 of the report.
            Dr. Mike

        • LCD

          I do think there will be another report but maybe not a revised lugano report.

          Your points are valid. I don’t have as much of a problem with the possible error in the COP for several reasons.

          1) ssm was not used
          2) the radiometric approach provided little to no oppoprtunity for hiding much of anything, which recall has been an ongoing problem

          As an aside my biggest problem is that a control unit had not been done in parallel.

          3) isotopic shift occurred
          4) parkhamov got 1.7

          Im really looking forward to the next few months of rossi replications. I think you’ll see some special things happen.

    • LCD

      What was the estimated energy output error from the discrepancy in calculated temperature I.e. How far off does that put the COP.

      • tomas clark as expecte conclude by adding theory, to appriximation, assumption, and forgetting the impact of calibration, reach 1…
        many of his reasoning are as usual quite good, but some of his strange forgetting make it dubious, as usual.

        my quick computation, not counting convection, make it 1.6.
        note that reinterpreting more honestly the theory of the wrong emissivity make it more uncertain but higher.

        for example the emisivity of the dogbone from a practical point of view is probably near 1, for 2 reasons.
        one is that as sid the reflectivity is lower in IR, making it 0.95 for the Optris can.
        for the heat radiation, it is higher than computed not only because the reflectivity is probably lower because of surface state, of fins, but also because the transparency of alumina is not a problem if bellow some opaque resistor or even powder have zero transparency.
        finally transparency of alumina will allow hoter internal elements of the reactor to radiate even more energy than what the surface temperature would say..

        finaly it seems the measurement is dubious, it cannot be saved, but what I care is that Tom darden did not flee the business, on the contrary, and you know money talks more than science.

        • LCD

          It seems really hard to swallow that a large error in the calorimetry was made. But even if a conservative estimate is above 1 who cares, it’s above one with isotopic shifts not using ssm. Right?

        • LCD

          It is somewhat interesting that parkhamov calculated 1.7 but alas without using the pure Li additive which I presume is the unknown catalyst.

    • LCD

      But look forget about the COP for a moment. There was a huge isotopic shift in Ni. The second indep test lives and dies with that observation.

      Got to concentrate on the bigger picture.

    • it was filed before the problems were identified, and maybe he don’t dare to correct the report until the physicist correct it themselves…

      the C1/C2 claims is not so important as it is used just to estimate joule losses in wiring.
      McKubre have said it would be more intelligent to measure voltage just on the connection to the resistor (he think like a scientists, the physicist were conservative thinking like a conspiracy theorist).

      the calorimetry error seems real, but there is still some incoherence that may eliminate this emissivity theory too. It is hard to defend any position.

      note that if you integrate the emissivity=0.95, then one possibility is that the heating element is SiC and the resistance is reduced not far from 3x in the range (from max to min, unlike at 1250C, where it increase again)…

      maybe in the patent there is description of the heating element ?

      • Obvious

        The device construction is laid out in the WO application, in photos. The elements are clearly visible as wires, possibly 15 AWG.

      • Dr. Mike

        AlainCo,
        The patent application definitely says the heating coil is Inconel in section 00103. The COP data claimed in the report can not be substantiated without determining what measurements were taken incorrectly. I would tend to believe that the high current measured by clamp-on ammeters as evidenced by the Joule heating calculations represent the correct data. It should be noted that even if the real COP of the Lugano reactor was close to 1.0, the isotropic changes in the Li and Ni indicate that there were nuclear reactions taking place in the reactor as is pointed out by LCD in a comment below.
        Dr. Mike

    • LCD

      I want to see more replications.

      • bachcole

        It is true the science works via replications, and replications, and replications . . . . But Roger does not necessarily work via replications. I am satisfied that the effect is real; if they can’t replicate it, then they are doing something wrong. That is just how I am. (:->)

        • LCD

          We’ll I’m sure there will be some of that but we’ve got to hey to a point where replication is ready or the skeptics may as well be right.

          • bachcole

            True.

  • f sedei

    LENR really does not need the news media. Home Depot will fill that spot when they start advertising the sale of LENR products at their locations. Rossi fame and fortune will come later and is inevitable.

  • Sandy

    “August 11, 1998

    High School Students Learn About Engineering at NC State

    North Carolina State University College of Engineering recently held its summer Student Introduction to Engineering (SITE) program for high school students. Over 200 students from North Carolina and six other states attended demonstrations, lectures and laboratory experiments and participated in hands-on laboratory exercises as part of the SITE program.

    Held in two one-week sessions during June and July, the program offered rising juniors and seniors a chance to explore interests in chemical engineering, electrical and computer engineering, materials science, mechanical and aerospace engineering, and nuclear engineering.

    Following, listed by county or state, are the students who participated in the program, with their high schools listed when available…

    Thomas Barker Dameron, Ravenscroft School”

    https://www.engr.ncsu.edu/news/awards/awards.arc.98.summer.html

  • Steve Albers

    Interesting this patent mentions the isotopic shifts that weren’t mentioned in the U.S. patent, so would make a stronger case for LENR being present.

  • I think Rossi already used lithium in the fuel powder. However — the accuracy was never very good in any of the tests I assisted so we cannot know for sure what the COP was. On the other hand, several times Rossi apparently experienced runaway reactions, or close runaway, e.g. when Levi made the test with flowing water and no boiling, and at those occasions COP seemed to be much higher, although with poor control of the reaction.

  • Dr. Mike

    Mark S.
    I agree if the new experiment and report answers the unresolved issues in the initial report. It would be trivial to measure the RMS current and the RMS voltage of each heater winding. Also, the investigators now know that they need to run the control run up to 1200-1300C for a time period necessary to achieve a steady-state temperature (probably less than 10 minutes?). One final requirement of a new experiment is make sure that the dummy run is supplied with the same additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” as used in the active run (see page 1 of the Lugano report). There was no mention in the discussion of the dummy run that these additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” were supplied during the dummy run, and the equipment used to supply these additional “specific electromagnetic pulses” is not included in the Figure 4 Wiring Diagram on page 5 of the report.
    Dr. Mike

  • Uncle Bob

    This is disappointing to say the least.
    In reply to this post on his Rossi blog;-

    Lisa Huckerbee
    August 29th, 2015 at 4:58 PM

    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    Why did you scrap your theoretical paper? I was really interested to it and I am sure I was not alone.
    Cheers,
    Lisa

    Mr. Rossi replies;-

    August 29th, 2015 at 8:30 PM

    Lisa Huckerbee:
    Because I realized I was just copying the work of Professors much better than me in theoretical issues. I understood that for me is better to study than to write.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I would have thought the professors were just guessing at what might be happening and it would be up to Mr. Rossi to tell us what is actually happening.
    After all, he’s been promising to tell us the theory behind all this for some years now.
    Since he has a patent on it, now would probably be the best time to tell all.
    I hope this doesn’t mean that he still doesn’t know how it works either.

  • William D. Fleming

    This application seems to be for the general process which was tested during the Lugano trial, while the Leonardo patent is for a specific device currently in operation in an advanced form, and described in detail. The latter carries a lot more weight IMO.

  • LCD

    We’ll I’m sure there will be some of that but we’ve got to hey to a point where replication is ready or the skeptics may as well be right.

  • John Page

    This Patent list the castable alumina Durapot 810. I did a simple google of “Durapot 810” just out of curiosity and found something interesting on the second page. Google found that on the “Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project” Facebook page, there was a comment from Beniamino Benedetto, where he also mentions “Durapot 810”. There are hundreds maybe thousands of castable alumina products on the market, so this is a big coincidence, or maybe Beniamino Benedetto has some insider info?

  • John Page

    This Patent list the castable alumina Durapot 810. I did a simple google of “Durapot 810” just out of curiosity and found something interesting on the second page. Google found that on the “Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project” Facebook page, there was a comment from Beniamino Benedetto, where he also mentions “Durapot 810”. There are hundreds maybe thousands of castable alumina products on the market, so this is a big coincidence, or maybe Beniamino Benedetto has some insider info?

  • Stephen

    Can someone remind me what happens to the other gasses (Nitrogen, Oxygen, CO2 etc) present in the sealed container?

    Could this be part of the remaining gas or are they removed from the gas at high temperatures by reaction with the Nickel and Aluminium (would dry Nickel make a difference)?

    If a steel container was used would it react with this?

    Do we know the composition of the remaining gas in the device? Or can it be found during opening?

    In case low pressure is required. Would degassing before or during the experiment remove some of the nitrogen and oxygen?

  • Stephen

    Edit: Apologies I miss posted a comment here that was meant for another thread. I have just moved it

  • joel

    The only Dameron I could find is listed in the obituaries.

  • Obvious

    Using the Lugano device dimensions I calculated the coil characteristics with the wire size suggested in the patent application. I had to substitute Kanthal A1 resistance, since no wire has the suggested resistance in the application. (Kanthal is actually very numerically close to the suggested ohms/ ft with 1 decimal place over.) Anyways, at a full 230 V available in Lugano, the device would be capable on paper of 33000 Watts. Clearly it would burn up if not throttled back severely. At 75 V it would use about 46.9 A, a value calculated as RMS maximum for the device based on Joule heating. It would use about 3500 W at 75 V. To keep the power consumed at around 930 W, which is about the maximum the Lugano Report suggests, then the volts must be held below 39.9 V, and the device is extremely sensitive to any change in voltage. Increasing the volts to 50 causes power consumed to jump to 1560 W.
    The device also would appear to consume around 30% of its power in the leads to the coil.