Testing Update — Looking for LENR (Frank Acland)

I thought I would give an update here about some testing I have been doing personally recently. I have seen something that I find encouraging, and has got me motivated to keep going.

First of all, I must say I am very much a novice with this kind of experimentation, and I am learning as I go along. Basically I am just doing this for my own curiosity and enjoyment. I am using a very basic setup, using a fuel core that has been provided to me by another researcher (who for now does not want to be identified), so I feel like I can’t take any credit for the testing I am doing. I have just put some equipment together and am taking measurements.

I first planned to use a PID to stabilize temperatures, and measure input. However I purchased a solid state relay that did not work with my PID — so I have to put that on hold for the time being. So for the time being I decided to try something more simple.

The components on the circuit are a wattmeter at the power outlet, an AC motor speed controller (basically a dimmer). These are hooked to a coil made of Kanthal A1 wire that is insulated with ceramic wool and is placed inside a cylindrical metal container (an empty Bush baked beans can). I measure the temperature using the thermometer part of the PID hooked to a thermocouple which is stuffed inside the insulation near the wire core. The fueled core is made of ceramic, and my supplier tells me it contains about 1 gram a ‘Parkhomov mixture’ — nickel powder (90%) and lithium aluminum hydride powder (10%). It is sealed with a ceramic cement. It has been pre-baked by the supplier, so I have not done any special treatment on it.

core
Ceramic core inside (broken) coil
heater
Heater with core inside

The testing is simple. I set the output with the knob on the dimmer, then watch the temperature until it reaches a steady state. After that, I turn off the power, insert the core into the coil and start it up, keeping the power output the same. Then I watch until the temperature reaches a steady state.

This morning I did a test using this process. Here are the results. With an input of around 401 Watts (it fluctuated slightly), the empty coil reached a temperature of 802 C; with the same power input the temperature reached 875 C after I put the coil inside. I held the temperature for about 15 minutes in both cases. Unfortunately, after I turned off the power for the fueled test, when I turned it back on again, I found that the wire had broken, so I will have to wind some more cores before winding

I don’t want anyone to think of this being a scientific report, it’s just a post by someone tinkering in a garage — so take it for what it’s worth, but I found the results interesting and encouraging, and I want to do more and better tests. I hope to increase temperatures in the future — without burning out coils, which has been a problem so far.

I will be happy to answer any questions here, and will be happy to take suggestions.

Frank Acland

  • Bob Greenyer

    Welcome to the Party Frank!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Welcome to the Party Frank!

  • Alan Smith

    Braided Knthal next time! But top marks for joining this merry bunch!

    • Frank Acland

      That’s a good idea, Alan. I will plan to do that.

      • Bruce Williams

        Good luck Frank, best wishes, Bruce.

    • clovis ray

      Hey, Alan what shaking,i just joined in, looks like Frank, has bitten off a big chew, i just can’t let him have all the fun, looks like he has things well under way, and with a little help from his friends, has joe cocker, would say. he could be first to duplicate ..

  • Private Citizen

    walking the walk. good on you.

  • Private Citizen

    walking the walk. good on you.

  • Stephen

    Great! Good luck Frank

  • Stephen

    Great! Good luck Frank

  • Uncle Bob

    When you do the dummy run you need to insert something of the same dimensions and thermal conductivity into the same position that you will be inserting the fuel core.
    For the results to be meaningful the dummy fuel core needs to closely approximate everything about the real fuel core, except that the ‘fuel’ is inert.
    Any missing fuel core will be an escape path for the input energy and will therefore make the dummy run produce a lower temperature.

    Also, to test for any changes in the heater wire effectiveness over multiple runs you need to do a second dummy run AFTER the fueled test to make sure the dummy run temperature is the same as the first dummy run, otherwise it means the higher temperature is possibly due to changes in the heater element over successive tests.

    And I don’t need to say, make sure the thing is unplugged before you start fiddling with it or you will get electroluxed.

    Make sure you tell us all about it, including the electroluxing. 🙂

    • Frank Acland

      Yes, all good points, Bob. I hope I can get such a dummy.

      • Sanjeev

        I agree with uncle bob . As we have seen so many times the temperature difference can be due to so many reasons like conductivity, contact with TCs etc etc. All these variables need to be eliminated before any thing can be concluded. Keep going !

        • Sanjeev

          And since you already have a wattmeter you can try simple calorimetry where these issues are solved.
          Heat the water with dummy and then heat it with active. Its simple.

          • Frank Acland

            Thanks for the very good suggestions, Sanjeev. I will see if I can rig up a simple calorimeter.

  • Sanjeev

    Nice to see you doing your own experiments.
    All the best Frank and keep us updated.

  • Sanjeev

    Nice to see you doing your own experiments.
    All the best Frank and keep us updated.

  • Gerard McEk

    Nice to see you doing these things Frank and courageous too. I hope you enjoy it. Be careful!
    Gerard.

  • Gerard McEk

    Nice to see you doing these things Frank and courageous too. I hope you enjoy it. Be careful!
    Gerard.

  • Christina

    Frank,
    Caution first! You have only one body, one life. Take great care.
    Christina

    • Obvious

      Please be careful. This sport becomes addicting.
      It is easy to quickly progress from a simple garage experiment to a rack of different power supplies, many tubes, dozens of coils, several digital meters and data loggers….

  • Christina

    Frank,
    Caution first! You have only one body, one life. Take great care.
    Christina

  • Freethinker

    P~T^4 for a black body. Now, this is then likely the upper limit, but still
    P2=401* (273+875)^4/(273+802)^4=521W, meaning that your Pin/Pout=1.30.

    Nice Going!

  • Freethinker

    P~T^4 for a black body. Now, this is then likely the upper limit, but still
    P2=401* (273+875)^4/(273+802)^4=521W, meaning that your Pin/Pout=1.30.

    Nice Going!

  • Enrique Ferreyra

    Post regulary so we know you are fine XD

  • ss dd

    Seeing someone get started with a more rudimentary design just shows how far the MFMP has gone! Hope you get some interesting results!

  • ss dd

    Seeing someone get started with a more rudimentary design just shows how far the MFMP has gone! Hope you get some interesting results!

  • Obvious

    Please be careful. This sport becomes addicting.
    It is easy to quickly progress from a simple garage experiment to a rack of different power supplies, many tubes, dozens of coils, several digital meters and data loggers….

  • clovis ray

    Hey, Frank, are we having fun yet, can i play, smile.

    • clovis ray

      Hey, frank i have this little fluke hand helt IR thermometer,i can send it to you, if you would like,

      it can read -40°C to 760°C (-40°F to 1400°F). Plus, the enhanced optics allow you to measure smaller objects further away

      • ecatworld

        Thanks so much for the offer, Clovis — but most temps I am trying to measure are above the 760 C limit. It might not be so useful at the moment.

  • clovis ray

    Hey, Frank, are we having fun yet, can i play, smile.

  • clovis ray

    Hey, frank i have this little fluke hand helt IR thermometer,i can send it to you, if you would like,

    it can read -40°C to 760°C (-40°F to 1400°F). Plus, the enhanced optics allow you to measure smaller objects further away

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks so much for the offer, Clovis — but most temps I am trying to measure are above the 760 C limit. It might not be so useful at the moment.

  • Godspeed Frank

  • ecatworld

    Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I will try to be very careful. I don’t have a huge amount of funds or time to devote to this testing, I have just been mainly trying to satisfy my own curiosity, and see if it might be possible to see the Rossi effect in a relatively simple experiment.

  • Frank Acland

    Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I will try to be very careful. I don’t have a huge amount of funds or time to devote to this testing, I have just been mainly trying to satisfy my own curiosity, and see if it might be possible to see the Rossi effect in a relatively simple experiment.

  • hempenearth

    All the best Frank from far away. And don’t forget Andrew Riley.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks! Who is Andrew Riley?

      • hempenearth

        The cold fusion scientist who died at SRI, in the early nineties

        • ecatworld

          Ok, thanks — yes I remember now.

  • hempenearth

    All the best Frank from far away. And don’t forget Andrew Riley.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks! Who is Andrew Riley?

      • hempenearth

        The cold fusion scientist who died at SRI, in the early nineties.

        Edit: Not wanting to discourage, just to be extra cautious

        • Frank Acland

          Ok, thanks — yes I remember now.

  • Kevmo

    Good luck, Frank. Do you have a video camera so that skeptopaths won’t claim you cheated or are a super magician apprentice?

    • ecatworld

      I do have a camera, but I’m not sure a film would convince those who are deeply skeptical, and I’m not sure I want to go to the time and expense of trying to prove LENR to the skeptics.

      • Kevmo

        Well, with a setup so simple as yours, you might put it on youtube and convince a few thousand tinkerers to do their own replication. The aggregate weight of a thousand tinkerers submitting basic replication papers to NATURE magazine would set the world on its head.

        • Been there, Seen it

          Don’t encourage replicators who don’t have access to the Parkhomov magic mixture. They will kill themselves!

      • Video will not convince. Also your data will not convince.

        What will convince is: Build a reactor who is working reliable and shows undoubtable excess heat. Then write down your protocol to build and drive it very detailled.
        Go to a big university in your nearby and let them test your reactor and help them to replicate it with your protocol instructions. Then let them write a paper for nature, journal of physics or something else.

        Nothing else, except maybe the market entry of E-Cat will convince.

        • Paul

          It is quite clear that this first replication was made only for fun…

          • I know that.
            My post was related to the “make a video to convince skeptics” post of Kevmo.

            Nothing else.

        • builditnow

          Barty, numerous working reactors that are doing useful work will interest the public and break the NONscience cone of silence.

  • Good luck, Frank. Do you have a video camera so that skeptopaths won’t claim you cheated or are a super magician apprentice?

    • Frank Acland

      I do have a camera, but I’m not sure a film would convince those who are deeply skeptical, and I’m not sure I want to go to the time and expense of trying to prove LENR to the skeptics.

      • Well, with a setup so simple as yours, you might put it on youtube and convince a few thousand tinkerers to do their own replication. The aggregate weight of a thousand tinkerers submitting basic replication papers to NATURE magazine would set the world on its head.

        • Muawiyah

          Hi Kevmo ~ another “small/simple” idea ~ just go small. Create exceedingly small 3D printable sheets of LENR devices ~ like organic microlasers.

          With electroconductive graphene sheets coming on the market, you could hook all of them up to microcurrents. Eventually that stuff has to go cheap!

        • Been there, Seen it

          Don’t encourage replicators who don’t have access to the Parkhomov magic mixture. They will kill themselves!

      • Video will not convince. Also your data will not convince.

        What will convince is: Build a reactor who is working reliable and shows undoubtable excess heat. Then write down your protocol to build and drive it very detailled.
        Go to a big university in your nearby and let them test your reactor and help them to replicate it with your protocol instructions. Then let them write a paper for nature, journal of physics or something else.

        Nothing else, except maybe the market entry of E-Cat will convince.

        • Paul

          It is quite clear that this first replication was made only for fun…

          • I know that.
            My post was related to the “make a video to convince skeptics” post of Kevmo.

            Nothing else.

        • builditnow

          Barty, numerous working reactors that are doing useful work will interest the public and break the NONscience cone of silence.

  • builditnow

    Frank, This could be a very simple model to enable many more tests looking for the right fuel mix to get significant heat.

    Try using soft fire bricks, about $7 each.

    http://jjmedina.com.ec/GREENTHERM%202010-Flyer.pdf
    Easy to carve and you can create a more predictable chamber. Add more insulation around the outside.
    Then add an air blower set at a temperature you don’t want to exceed.
    Run it long enough to be beyond chemical if you are seeing a temperature rise.

    What is the component cost of a reactor?
    How to get a good seal on the reactor? <<< a key issue.
    Just in case, a Geiger counter.
    Hide behind a blast shield. I think most of the danger is from explosions and probably more from something like the build up of hydrogen in a confined space.
    Also safety in handling the materials.
    Have fun.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks for the tip about the fire bricks — I had not heard of those. I have to watch my experimental budget, there’s a lot of kit one could buy in this work, so I am trying to make do with what I already have as best I can.

  • Mario

    Frank, Welcome to the Arena.

    THE MAN IN THE ARENA

    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

    http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/trsorbonnespeech.html

  • R101

    Thumbs up Frank! I think a lot of us here would like to be doing the same sort of experiments, but can’t for one reason or another.

    Best of luck and thanks for sharing!

  • R101

    Thumbs up Frank! I think a lot of us here would like to be doing the same sort of experiments, but can’t for one reason or another.

    Best of luck and thanks for sharing!

  • Sanjeev

    Another explorer joins the adventure.
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1982-E-Cat-Replication-Attempt/?postID=7253#post7253

    Wanted to post in always open thread but can’t access it from mobile site.

  • Sanjeev

    Another explorer joins the adventure.
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1982-E-Cat-Replication-Attempt/?postID=7253#post7253

    Wanted to post in always open thread but can’t access it from mobile site.

  • Mats002

    Here’s to Frank and all replicators, you are LENR HEROES!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sGOwFVUU0I

    Note: This performance is made in front of a LED screen in real time, no edits or overlay of computer graphics, live at the European Song Contest final 2015, watched by nearly 200 million people in 40 countries. Please embrace it!

  • Paul

    It is a good result for a first trial. I would have two questions. In how many hours did you arrive at the around 800 temperature in both the run and dummy experiment? What can you say about the type of nickel used (at least can you say whether it is the classical T255 or not)?

    • Frank Acland

      Paul, I was not timing it, but I guess it took about 20 minutes to reach the temperature of around 800 the first time (increasing the power periodically). When I put in the core, I turned off the power briefly and let it sit for about another 20 minutes which was when it reached the peak temperature. About the nickel, the person who provided it to me bought it from another person, and does not know the source. He said it looked very like Parkhomov nickel under a microscope.

  • Steven N. Karels

    Frank,
    I suggest a different approach. Consider using two identical setups, one with fuel and the other identical but without the hydrogen (nickel and lithium only, or just nickel – same mass). Both are ceramic “reactors” wrapped with heater wire and a central temperature sensor. Tie the wires in series so the same amount of current flows through each reactor heater. Now mount each inside a copper watertight pipe/plumbing. Place each unit in an insulated cooler and filled the cooler with the same amount of water. Provide a long plastic pipe to vent away the resulting steam. Place each container on its own bathroom scale. Record the weight of each as a function of time. Record how much water is added over time to each container. Run the experiment at low power for days/weeks and then step wise increase the input power. Record internal temperatures of each reactor over time. Run this experiment for months and see how much water is evaporated away from each half of the experiment. Running at a relatively low temperature will identify any differences in heating when LENR is not present.

    • Frank Acland

      A good idea, Steven, but I must say I just not equipped to do very complex experiments, I am trying to make do with the equipment and materials I have on hand.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        It’s guerrilla science. Bush baked beans can vs. tokomak. And it’s FUN.

        https://annaleenyc.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/simplicity-quotes.jpg

      • Guest

        Andrea Rossi performed thousands of experiments to get to where he is now.
        If all those experiments would have lasted two months each, he would probably be homeless right now.

        Instead of performing a two month long experiment, with a potential higher fail rate due to everything that could go wrong, such as a power failure, you could during the same amount of time perform 200 shorter experiments where you experiment with the fuel compositions, electromagnetic fields, currents, etc

        Be creative – try something new!

        You will pick up a lot of data along the road, far more valuable than just one test.

      • Steven N. Karels

        My concern is how will you know that you have seen a result? If you burn one reactor without fuel and another with fuel and see a temperature difference, how do you know that an LENR reaction occurred?
        By building the two reactors as identical as you can and then running them in series, you eliminate some of the potential errors. Boiling and weighing water is as simple as you can get. The problem is showing the difference with enough precision to account for measurement error. By slowly increasing the temperature you reduce the chance of burning out the heating wires (implicit assumption is that they tend to burnout faster at higher temperatures). So you add time to increase the total mass of the water boiled away to improve the relative accuracy of the mass (weight) measurements. Plus it you run the experiment at high temperatures for a long time, you might just produce enough mass changes and isotopic changes that the spent fuel could be analyzed by a lab with some detectable results.
        If the purpose of the experiment is to have fun, then go for it.

        • Frank Acland

          Yes, you make very good points, Steven. Thanks for the suggestions.

  • clovis ray

    Hey, buddy.
    How about we start a project fund, to help out with off the off the shelf stuff ,

    • ecatworld

      It’s a nice idea, Clovis, but I’m not sure I’m in the best situation to do a lot of rigorous testing. I am hoping we can get a local university to agree to some more rigorous testing in a professional lab environment.

      • Mats002

        I think those of us who can should try to do that, we are spread around the world and most people have a local university nearby.

        When MFMP ‘call it’ – can be soon – I think it is time to call some contact at the local school. A presentation with some slides with highlights from the past years should help a lot.

        What milestones do You consider worth a slide? A good rule of thumb is 2 minutes per slide and maximum 30 minutes to have time for questions and discussions, calculates into 15 slides of LENR background, state of the art and the final hook – the DIY proposal!

        Why should the average university replicate? Arguments needed. Risks with experimenting will certainly be questioned. What’s in it for them if a) “official science” start to move and what if b) they don’t, at least not yet

  • clovis ray

    Hey, buddy.
    How about we start a project fund, to help out with off the off the shelf stuff ,

    • Frank Acland

      It’s a nice idea, Clovis, but I’m not sure I’m in the best situation to do a lot of rigorous testing. I am hoping we can get a local university to agree to some more rigorous testing in a professional lab environment.

      • Mats002

        I think those of us who can should try to do that, we are spread around the world and most people have a local university nearby.

        When MFMP ‘call it’ – can be soon – I think it is time to call some contact at the local school. A presentation with some slides with highlights from the past years should help a lot.

        What milestones do You consider worth a slide? A good rule of thumb is 2 minutes per slide and maximum 30 minutes to have time for questions and discussions, calculates into 15 slides of LENR background, state of the art and the final hook – the DIY proposal!

        Why should the average university replicate? Arguments needed. Risks with experimenting will certainly be questioned. What’s in it for them if a) “official science” start to move and what if b) they don’t, at least not yet

  • Muawiyah

    The fellows looking for quasi crystals found a couple of new sources recently ~ and then there’s this discovery:

    http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/aug/17/physicists-get-a-surprise-when-watching-quasicrystals-grow

    They were growing them out of a mixture of aluminum, nickel and cobalt atoms.

    Another article this week revealed a less complex and expensive mixture for resistance free current ~ another possibility for a small lab project that might well dovetail into some more of the exotic LENR projects ~ SEE:

    Getting back to the subject, I’ve noticed that LENR, quasicrystals, and Woodford Drive discussions link back to the same sources. The Woodford Drive should be a project suitable for a home lab (now that cheap but powerful microwave equipment is available). Quasicrystals provide an understanding of what happened to Fleshman and Ponds, and why Paladium and Platinum are useful in initial LENR research.

    This whole body of applications science is down there in the very small dimensions where self assembly effects are at work. In fact, it may well be operating WITHIN a dimension already described in the extended series revealed by string theory.

    A small lab project called the “desk top atom smasher” might be useful for some of this work. SEE: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/21/desktop-sized-atom-smasher-demonstrated/0

    I also keep my eyes on what superconductor research is doing since those guys are also working with nano machine scales down there in the 5th (or 6th) dimension.

    The objective of all of this is to get a proton to combine with an electron ~ and the scientific research into the very small seems to me to be lurching forward in fits and starts toward the ability to do that at will and in a highly controlled fashion ~

    Iron hydride batteries just went through another iteration of improvement ~ making the old ones worth the price of junk, but you’ll recall Rossi had a BIG one on hand for his event in Italy a few years back. Those things have holes the size of protons in them….. well worth a few bucks to keep one around in LENR projects. So, what is iron these days? $0.15 a pound?