US Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) Presentation on LENR

An interesting presentation has been uploaded on the LENR-Forum which was given by Louis F. DeChiaro, Ph.D, a physicist with the US Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA), Dahlgren Warefare Center. The presentation was given at a IEEE Meeting on β€œLENR Phenomena and Potential Applications” held on Sept. 23 2015 at Teradyne in North Reading, Massachusetts.

The full slideshow can be accessed here: http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Attachment/386-IEEE-brief-DeChiaro-9-2015-pdf/

For people who have been following LENR closely over the past few years, there will not be too much new information in the slideshow. It is mostly a review of what has been happening in the field from the time of Fleischmann and Pons up to the present, but it’s interesting to see a scientist with the US Navy openly sharing research on LENR, and obviously taking the subject seriously. Below is the concluding slide.

Navsea

  • orsobubu

    The Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) is the largest of the United States Navy’s five “systems commands,” or materiel (not to be confused with “material”) organizations. NAVSEA consists of four shipyards, nine “warfare centers” (two undersea and seven surface), four major shipbuilding locations and the NAVSEA headquarters, located at the Washington Navy Yard, in Washington D.C.

    NAVSEA’s primary objective is to engineer, build and support the U.S.
    Navy’s fleet of ships and its combat systems. NAVSEA accounts for one
    quarter of the Navy’s entire budget, with more than 150 acquisition
    programs under its oversight.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Sea_Systems_Command

  • Gerard McEk

    Yes, indeed an interesting piece. Especially the fact that a military research centre has done this indicates that LENR is being followed carefully. However, because it has been issued for unlimited publication, it seems to indicate that the military community does not see that LENR can give them an advantage. Or maybe there is some ‘strategy’ behind this…

    • Billy Jackson

      can you feel those scales tipping? I know i do. where are all the naysayers now? the arguments against LENR & Rossi are starting to find some pretty hard walls to scale πŸ™‚

      • Sanjeev

        Never underestimate the ability of pathoskeptics to come up with a ridiculously moronic reason to deny such evidences.

        • timycelyn

          Indeed – it is a fundamental part of their MO.

          I know it has been linked here before, but a couple of days ago I rediscovered the excellent paper by Sarah Vaughter analysing the different psycologies of this irrational behaviour.

          For those that have either half forgotten it (like me) of didn’t get to see it the first time, I strongly recommend:

          http://ownshrink.com/skeptopathy/pseudoskepticism-skeptopathy-cryptodenialism-rossi-ecat/

          Fascinating……

          Tim

        • last joke by Mary… Moscow university did not do flow calorimetry…
          not enough to measure 2x more heat production with dozens of degrees of change…
          I’m tired.
          They remind me the japanese government arguing for the status of the emperor as divinity after Hiroshima, and even worst after Kobe.

          • Sanjeev

            I told you so :-D. never underestimate.
            The pathology is obvious here. Just ignore.

      • catfish

        this is a big freaking deal. huge.

  • Gerard McEk

    Yes, indeed an interesting piece. Especially the fact that a military research centre has done this indicates that LENR is being followed carefully. However, because it has been issued for unlimited publication, it seems to indicate that the military community does not see that LENR can give them an advantage. Or maybe there is some ‘strategy’ behind this…

    • tchernik

      I see this as a public endorsement, for giving LENR some overdue credibility. Because they will use it and they expect to see some public reactions from adversary interest groups.

      And probably for making it clear to those other pressure groups and think tanks that they won’t be taking their BS anymore.

      LENR is real and coming, whether these adversary interest groups like it or not.

  • orsobubu

    Louis F. DeChiaro was awarded the Ph.D. Degree in Physics in 1979 from
    Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. From 1979 to
    2002, he served as an Electronics Engineer / researcher in the
    telecommunications industry at Bell Laboratories and Telcordia
    Technologies, retiring in 2002 as a Distinguished Member of the
    Technical Staff. From 2002 to 2006, he served as an Associate Professor
    of Computational Science and a founding member of the new Computational
    Science Program at The Richard Stockton College of New Jersey. He
    joined the US Navy as a civilian Physicist in September, 2006 and since
    2009 been performing investigations in LENR physics and supporting the
    EMC efforts of Branch Q51 at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren,
    VA. During the period 2010-2012 he was on special assignment at the
    Naval Research Labs, Washington, D.C. in their experimental LENR group.
    Dr. DeChiaro is a member of Tau Beta Pi. http://www.tbp.org

    • blanco69

      Great summary! Thank you. I would say though that, if Prof. DeChiaro has been full time on LENR effectively since 2009, you’d think he’d come up with a bit more than a summary of what everyone else is doing. Six years is long time to work on your Powerpoint slides.

  • orsobubu

    Louis F. DeChiaro was awarded the Ph.D. Degree in Physics in 1979 from
    Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. From 1979 to
    2002, he served as an Electronics Engineer / researcher in the
    telecommunications industry at Bell Laboratories and Telcordia
    Technologies, retiring in 2002 as a Distinguished Member of the
    Technical Staff. From 2002 to 2006, he served as an Associate Professor
    of Computational Science and a founding member of the new Computational
    Science Program at The Richard Stockton College of New Jersey. He
    joined the US Navy as a civilian Physicist in September, 2006 and since
    2009 been performing investigations in LENR physics and supporting the
    EMC efforts of Branch Q51 at the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren,
    VA. During the period 2010-2012 he was on special assignment at the
    Naval Research Labs, Washington, D.C. in their experimental LENR group.
    Dr. DeChiaro is a member of Tau Beta Pi. http://www.tbp.org

    • bachcole

      Not a single Marxist idea. Great job, orsobubu!!!

      • orsobubu

        During the first years of Tau Beta Pi, the oldest engineering honor society in the United States, however, an effort was
        made to broaden the field of the Society, and two lectures were given
        under its auspices, which were duly reported in the local
        press. The first was delivered on February 13, 1888, by Professor E.H.
        Williams, Jr., on the subject, “The Merits of Strikes in the Anthracite
        Regions,” and the second on April 30, 1888, by Professor Severin Ringer
        on the subject, “Socialism.” I think this news I discovered for you is fundamental for LENR, bachcole.

    • blanco69

      Great summary! Thank you. I would say though that, if Prof. DeChiaro has been full time on LENR effectively since 2009, you’d think he’d come up with a bit more than a summary of what everyone else is doing. Six years is long time to work on your Powerpoint slides.

  • Billy Jackson

    can you feel those scales tipping? I know i do. where are all the naysayers now? the arguments against LENR & Rossi are starting to find some pretty hard walls to scale πŸ™‚

    • Sanjeev

      Never underestimate the ability of pathoskeptics to come up with a ridiculously moronic reason to deny such evidences.

      • bachcole

        Actually, if you think as I do that skeptopathology may be a real mental illness, like anorexia nervosa or hoarding, then it may happen that some of them will NEVER acknowledge that LENR is real. I can even imagine some of them going into Home Depot with a gun and shooting people who are trying to buy home e-cats.

        • Sanjeev

          I think you are right. The comments of skeptopaths almost feel like coming from a person either full of self delusion, a sick sense of superiority complex or even worse, a deep hatred. The madness and violence in their insults and attacks is most obvious. Reading them leaves an ordinary person disgusted, angry and depressed. I highly recommend not feeding them.

          • GreenWin

            This definition seems reasonably accurate:

            “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people
            have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for
            admiration and a lack of empathy for others.”
            http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568

          • bachcole

            Everyone is infinitely valuable; I don’t care what anyone thinks of me; and I seek to empathize with everyone. Am I a narcissistic personality? (:->)

          • GreenWin

            Roger, re-read the quote to answer your question. Everyone is potentially valuable. The choice to exercise value is that of the individual.

          • bachcole

            You are failing to see that people have intrinsic worth (which is infinite.) It is necessary to be able to hold two thoughts at once and see that they also have value depending upon their relationship with other people.

            Given that all beings are ONE, I am (or was) Ted Bundy, Mother Teresa, McGeorge Bundy, the bum on the street, and Paul Revere’s horse. All are infinitely precious, but all do not manifest the same and some manifestations are better than others, and some are just plain unacceptable. So I am in favor of the death penalty and I think that hard workers should get paid more than bums.

            If life doesn’t seem to be fair, understand that you are blinded by your identification with the body and that death is an illusion. Life is fair; it just doesn’t end at physical death.

          • Normally I would distrust any described ‘psychiatric disorder’, but as you say, this one seems to accurately describe a particular type of individual encountered in ‘real life’ (mostly in executive/management roles, and of course, in politics). It certainly sums up the personality type that currently dominates ECN.

          • it is normal behavior, maybe like war crimes (abu grahib, stanford prison experiment, milgram experiment…), like paradigm change opposition, groupthink, …
            Personal history, local incentives, surrounding network, is the problem.

            Heros and monsters, smart and stupid, mostly emerge from noise.

            I believed in LENR because
            – I was busy to get my diploma in 89
            – I was trained in semiconductors
            – I had access to internet and found cold fusion archive
            – I receive a book on “the atom” when aged 8, and read French SciAm since teenager
            – I found a science encyclopedia when kid, dated 1930, so I know that science evolves.

            Otherwise my position is mostly very conservative, anti pseudo-science, pseudo-medecine, evidence based, with a sensible BS detector.

      • timycelyn

        Indeed – it is a fundamental part of their MO.

        I know it has been linked here before, but a couple of days ago I rediscovered the excellent paper by Sarah Vaughter analysing the different psycologies of this irrational behaviour.

        For those that have either half forgotten it (like me) of didn’t get to see it the first time, I strongly recommend:

        http://ownshrink.com/skeptopathy/pseudoskepticism-skeptopathy-cryptodenialism-rossi-ecat/

        Fascinating……

        Tim

        Oh – any you can have good laugh at Hody’s expense as well, especially if you read the comments below the article….

      • last joke by Mary… Moscow university did not do flow calorimetry…
        not enough to measure 2x more heat production with dozens of degrees of change…
        I’m tired.
        They remind me the japanese government arguing for the status of the emperor as divinity after Hiroshima, and even worst after Kobe.

        • Sanjeev

          I told you so :-D. never underestimate.
          The pathology is obvious here. Just ignore.

    • bachcole

      “where are all the naysayers now?” Frank is kind enough to keep the most rude out of this forum. (:->)

      Do you have evidence of them caving, or are you just assuming?

      • The Pavlovian naysayers have too much invested psychologically to admit to error (or even to the possibility of error), regardless of the ever-increasing evidence that CF is a real, exploitable technology. The longer the run-up goes on, the harder any reversal becomes for them.

        The phrase ‘painting yourself into a corner’ springs to mind.

      • Billy Jackson

        probably the most convincing to me .. and shocking was goatguy on nextbigfuture he was adamantly against this technology and has openly switched his stance to curious and a possibility.

        • MasterBlaster7

          Yup. He is a rational skeptic.

          • tchernik

            The true definition of a skeptic, not those that deny experimental results just because they’re inconvenient or uncomfortable to their interest or worldview.

  • GreenWin

    Navy has likely moved on to next-gen CNT-based reactors. Next-gen LENR will seldom need the Ni lattice, replaced by manufactured geometry. This is the revolution. There are some thirty reasons to see this come to light.

  • GreenWin

    Navy has likely moved on to next-gen CNT-based reactors. Next-gen LENR will seldom need the Ni lattice, replaced by manufactured geometry. This is the revolution. There are some thirty reasons to see this come to light.

  • mcloki

    100% repeatability. That ends the discussion right there. Now all that’s left is continual improvement of the COP {20-80) and the output. What’s the upper limit of COP?

    • bachcole

      No quite. I don’t think that they meant 100% repeatability worldwide. It is still a difficult reaction to duplicate. Some people may have 100% repeatability, but most people who try fail.

      • mcloki

        I took the repeatability to mean that if they people tried to repeat it eventually they would be able to repeat the success, after tweakig thier experiment.

    • MasterBlaster7

      upper limit of COP is 200 ish

      cop 10 = 90%
      cop 20 = 95%
      cop 100 = 99%
      cop 200 = 99.5%

      so cop 10….you put 1 unit of energy in you get 9 back. Like that.

      • mcloki

        Thank you.

    • Ophelia Rump

      A large and very powerful explosion where all the energy is released at once is the upper limit to COP in general, any COP up to full instantaneous release is possible in theory.

      Given the amount of energy which the fuel can release, the upper theoretical limit is astronomically high. It exceeds the billions.

    • Axil Axil

      The initial part of LENR is all chemistry up until the LENR reaction is produced. After this reaction has been produced, it’s all physics. Producing that chemical reaction is a delicate dance that needs to co exist with nuclear reactions of all kinds. This is tricky to pull off.

      Life is also a chemical reaction, Is it a sure thing to produce life from a pile of chemicals? Not every body can do it with chemicals.

    • Omega Z

      Once you exceed COP>20, you’ve reached ever diminishing returns.
      COP=20 is 5.0w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      COP=40 is 2.5w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      COP=80 is 1.25w (IN) & 100w (OUT)
      It becomes a question of benefit of meager gains verses the complexity & risk of reactor runaway to obtain higher COP.

      An alternate approach of gain may be in the high temps of the Ht-Cat. With 800`C to 900`C steam output may enable a 50% heat/electric conversion. This would be a Hugh gain. In stead of 3.33kW/h to 1kW/e conversion, you’d get 2kW/h to 1kW/e.

      • bachcole

        Actually starting with a battery would be better, without any input at all.

  • bachcole

    Very nice review and very nice to have someone on the inside acknowledge that it is real.

  • Steve Savage

    COP is a measure from the pre-LENR world, it ceases to have much meaning in a LENR one.

    • Omega Z

      COP isn’t the proper term, but it’s reasonably suitable for the purpose.
      Technically, Pin/Pout is a more accurate term.

      • Term is not very useful scientifically, but it is popular for 2 reasons :

        1- for engineer, associated with the temperature it can give a hint if with a thermal engine you can self power the reactor with electricity it produce.

        2- most important is that small COP let the skeptics say that there is errors in Pin, Pout, leaks, hidden wires…

        if you have infinite COP, no Pin, then the skeptics have to find something else to criticize.

        if COP is huge, this demand for the skeptics to imagine conspiracy theory with inverted current clamps, …
        badly placed TC, slight errors, ambient temperature change, cannot explain a COP of 2…

        anyway scientifically what is important is the energy produced and the precision of the measurement compared to it’s uncertainty (the sigma).

        but this basic fact is mostly ignored since, skeptic find nothing to criticize there, and since most are naturally or willingly incompetent on anything that does not support their point.

  • Billy Jackson

    Every generation hopes to leave a world better for their children than the one we inherited. For the first time every my generation was poised to fail on that promise. We have trashed our world. devastating its forest, poisoning our waters, and leaving the discarded waste of our civilization behind rather than act as overseers for those who come after us…

    For the first time in a very long time i have a ray of hope that we might be turning a corner to an age greater than our own. One where energy technologies like LENR and Rossi’s E-cat provide the base for vertical farming, easy transportation, where 3d printing eliminates manufacturing procedures who’s caustic processes cause massive pollution. Where graphene provides clean drinking water through desalination. As LENR charged batteries provide 1000’s of miles of non polluting vehicles for our use that are not harmful to our environment. Where a combination of the EMDrive and LENR open not just the solar system to exploration but potentially an age of abundance as the resources available off-planet become accessible to us..

    We are not there yet.. and may not be for quite some time.. but there is hope

    • tchernik

      The availability of dense, cheap, safe portable energy will change everything. Cars running for thousands of miles for cents of fuel. Houses powering themselves cheaply, safely and redundantly. Finally affordable water desalination (no more suffering from droughts). Robots running for weeks or months on a single charge (finally achieving heir potential thanks to not requiring to be near a power outlet all the time). Affordable VTOL airplanes. No more CO2 from the huge cargo ships crossing the seas.

      Simply put: no more oil, no more electric grids, no more hydraulic despotism and resource wars, no more grasping at the scraps of the energy barrel.

      Even leaving things like the Emdrive aside, we can say that now, for real, The World of the Future is upon us.

      • Jarea

        Nice inspiring comment!

  • Billy Jackson

    Every generation hopes to leave a world better for their children than the one we inherited. For the first time ever my generation was poised to fail on that promise. We have trashed our world. devastating its forest, poisoning our waters, and leaving the discarded waste of our civilization behind rather than act as overseers for those who come after us…

    For the first time in a very long time i have a ray of hope that we might be turning a corner to an age greater than our own. One where energy technologies like LENR and Rossi’s E-cat provide the base for vertical farming, easy transportation, where 3d printing eliminates manufacturing procedures who’s caustic processes cause massive pollution. Where graphene provides clean drinking water through desalination. As LENR charged batteries provide 1000’s of miles of non polluting vehicles for our use that are not harmful to our environment. Where a combination of the EMDrive and LENR open not just the solar system to exploration but potentially an age of abundance as the resources available off-planet become accessible to us..

    We are not there yet.. and may not be for quite some time.. but there is hope

    • tchernik

      The availability of dense, cheap, safe portable energy will change everything. Cars running for thousands of miles for cents of fuel. Houses powering themselves cheaply, safely and redundantly. Finally affordable water desalination (no more suffering from droughts). Robots running for weeks or months on a single charge (finally achieving their potential thanks to not requiring to be near a power outlet all the time). Affordable VTOL airplanes. No more CO2 from the huge cargo ships crossing the seas.

      Simply put: no more oil, no more electric grids, no more hydraulic despotism and resource wars, no more grasping at the scraps of the energy barrel.

      Even leaving things like the Emdrive aside, we can say that now, for real, The World of the Future is upon us.

      • Jarea

        Nice inspiring comment!

    • bachcole

      I am sort of positive, not hopeful.

  • Sanjeev

    I think you are right. The comments of skeptopaths almost feel like coming from a person either full of self delusion, a sick sense of superiority complex or even worse, a deep hatred. The madness and violence in their insults and attacks is most obvious. Reading them leaves an ordinary person disgusted, angry and depressed. I highly recommend not feeding them.

    • GreenWin

      This definition seems reasonably accurate:

      “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people
      have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for
      admiration and a lack of empathy for others.”
      http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568

      • Agaricus

        Normally I would distrust any described ‘psychiatric disorder’, but as you say, this one seems to accurately describe a particular type of individual encountered in ‘real life’ (mostly in executive/management roles, and in politics). It certainly sums up the personality type that currently dominates ECN.

    • it is normal behavior, maybe like war crimes (abu grahib, stanford prison experiment, milgram experiment…), like paradigm change opposition, groupthink, …
      Personal history, local incentives, surrounding network, is the problem.

      Heros and monsters, smart and stupid, mostly emerge from noise.

      I believed in LENR because
      – I was busy to get my diploma in 89
      – I was trained in semiconductors
      – I had access to internet and found cold fusion archive
      – I receive a book on “the atom” when aged 8, and read French SciAm since teenager
      – I found a science encyclopedia when kid, dated 1930, so I know that science evolves.

      Otherwise my position is mostly very conservative, anti pseudo-science, pseudo-medecine, evidence based, with a sensible BS detector.

  • Agaricus

    The Pavlovian naysayers have too much invested psychologically to admit to error (or even to the possibility of error), regardless of the ever-increasing evidence that CF is a real, exploitable technology. The longer the run-up goes on, the harder any reversal becomes for them.

    The phrase ‘painting yourself into a corner’ springs to mind.

  • Curbina

    Another important document being associated with and official branch of a government agency (if US Navy can be called such), but will be taken by skeptopaths as “coming from a LENR Believer” so I’m not holding my breath.

    • kdk

      I’m hoping all of this material will finally help to educate the people who have had a closed mind about it w/o looking but don’t have a whole lot psychologically invested in believing it’s not real.

      It would have been nice to have had more scientists open to the idea so that it didn’t take as long as it has, and more engineering/industrial applications would be closer too, rather than just starting when it’s been fairly obvious to empiricists for a long while that LENR/CF is real.

      • Curbina

        The problem is that people that invests the time necessary to know about a controversial subject is scarce, and most people won’t skip a beat to read about LENR until some annointed guru gives the nod. We have to be aware we are a thin minority of the general public.

  • Billy Jackson

    probably the most convincing to me .. and shocking was goatguy on nextbigfuture he was adamantly against this technology and has openly switched his stance to curious and a possibility.

    • MasterBlaster7

      Yup. He is a rational skeptic.

    • GreenWin

      Tom, initial research indicates the acronym RASO refers to “Radiological Affairs Support Office.” This may have been used as a reason to shut down plain sight SPAWAR cold fusion research. On November 9th, 2011 following Rossi’s successful 1MW demo in Bologna, Rear Admiral Patrick Brady, commander of SPAWAR ordered LENR research halted.

      25 years data acquisition indicates LENR emits little or no ionized radiation. Brady’s order was probably a cover to direct LENR into the black. To its great credit however, we have NAVSEA confirming their part in LENR revolution. Without these good scientists (e.g. Pam Boss, S. Szpak, L. Forsley, F. Gordon, et al) we would not be where we are today. Thank you U.S. Navy.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Who is planning to build LENR propulsion systems into vehicles for sale to the public?
    I seem to have missed that reference.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Who is planning to build LENR propulsion systems into vehicles for sale to the public?
    I seem to have missed that reference.

  • catfish

    this is a big freaking deal. huge.

  • I went looking for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation version of this 1994 BBC documentary

    Too Close To The Sun https://vimeo.com/9438745

    because I remember it having some reference to secret US Navy labs conducting research in cold fusion back in the early nineties. I don’t see the US Navy being profiled in this version…

    ….but Private Citizen and Robert Dorr may enjoy McKubre saying around the 19 minute mark that he was able to get excess heat “every time” by “forcing it full of D2 and maintaining this for a long time.”

    (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/ecw/tom_darden_on_lenr_interview_in_fortune_magazine/?utm_source=reply&utm_medium=email&utm_content=comment_date#comment-2278194052)

  • Tom H

    Anyone know what he’s referring to by the “RASO scare”? Slide 4

    • Observer
    • GreenWin

      Tom, initial research indicates the acronym RASO refers to “Radiological Affairs Support Office.” This may have been used as a reason to shut down plain sight SPAWAR cold fusion research. On November 9th, 2011 following Rossi’s successful 1MW demo in Bologna, Rear Admiral Patrick Brady, commander of SPAWAR ordered LENR research halted.

      25 years data acquisition indicates LENR emits little or no ionized radiation. Brady’s order was probably a cover to direct LENR into the black. To its great credit however, we have NAVSEA confirming their part in LENR revolution. Without these good scientists (e.g. Pam Boss, S. Szpak, L. Forsley, F. Gordon, et al) we would not be where we are today. Thank you U.S. Navy.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    I read through the entire presentation and I must say I am pleasantly surprised. Especially since it is being publicly distributed. Someone feels they have enough evidence to put forth a coherant defense against any detractors. Granted the Spawar co deposition results alone are enough to defend the stance taken on this presentation. That said, the really interesting question is asside from the spawar results; did the presenter do a deep dive on the other evidence in his slide deck. Or is this simply an aggregation of results.

    I would be even more of a “big freaking deal” if they deep dived on all of the points raised and found they were all consistent with their claims.

  • David Taylor-Fuller

    I read through the entire presentation and I must say I am pleasantly surprised. Especially since it is being publicly distributed. Someone feels they have enough evidence to put forth a coherant defense against any detractors. Granted the Spawar co deposition results alone are enough to defend the stance taken on this presentation. That said, the really interesting question is asside from the spawar results; did the presenter do a deep dive on the other evidence in his slide deck. Or is this simply an aggregation of results.

    I would be even more of a “big freaking deal” if they deep dived on all of the points raised and found they were all consistent with their claims.

  • GreenWin

    Roger, re-read the quote to answer your question. Everyone is potentially valuable. The choice to exercise value is that of the individual.

  • Sanjeev
  • Jarea

    FYI
    http://coldfusionnow.org/ieee-meeting-on-lenr-phenomenon-well-attended/
    In one of the photos you can see DeChiaro presenting one of the slides of the presentation with the NavSea logo.

  • Jarea

    FYI
    http://coldfusionnow.org/ieee-meeting-on-lenr-phenomenon-well-attended/
    In one of the photos you can see DeChiaro presenting one of the slides of the presentation with the NavSea logo.