MFMP Publishes Statement from US Naval Research Laboratory Source on LENR

Thanks to Bob Greenyer for sharing that the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project has received a statement from an unnamed source at the Naval Research Labs regarding LENR research. The statement has been posted in full on the MFMPs Facebook Page here:

Here is an excerpt:

“The heat is real and not an instrumental artefact, (such as a calorimetry error), or due to stored energy.

“However, we struggled for years to determine if the heat is due to LENR or a very specific instrumental artefact – a short to ground in a certain wire with a certain resistance for the short.”

“This specific artefact could explain all the data (except for Eve). To cause this short spontaneously is possible if the wire was in a certain place and vibration causes the wire to touch, un-touch, re-touch, etc. The resistance must be a certain amount only or the effect observed would be different. Any other wire, we would have had diagnostics present to detect that kind of artefact. Did it occur? Who knows. We have no evidence for or against (and we tried in every way the data will allow). We have not seen excess heat, unambiguously, since this series and have stopped doing LENR work.”

So this source is saying that although they measured was unambiguous excess heat, there was a chance that a certain kind of short could have produced the effect, although they never found that short. And in the case of Eve (which Louis DeChiaro stated was the successful replication of Pons and Fleischmann effect, another kind of short would be required — and they have evidence that it did not.

This source obviously doesn’t want to be definitive about LENR replication, but is suggesting strongly that it happened. Now that the Naval Research Labs have stopped doing LENR research it will not be possible to re-analyze their experiments — but Dr. DeChiaro’s analysis published here yesterday does give a number of pointers that could be helpful for further research.

  • LCD

    What is he saying then that Dechario is full of it?

    • Ged

      On the contrary, he’s corroborating DeChario. But… trying to downplay it at the same time? It’s sounding like the standard “no such agency” obfuscation. Classified stuff maybe?

      • MasterBlaster7

        The thing about the internet is…once it is out there, it is out there.

        Maybe DeChario leaked this ‘classified’ information so that the civilian replicators would follow up on it. Quick, who do we know that sells Rhodium?

  • Owen Geiger

    Gotta read between the lines with these gov dudes — “and have stopped doing LENR work [publicly].”

    And please send me one of those magic heaters that produce months of free MW heat from an electrical short without raising the cost of the electric bill.

    • SG

      Or possibly “and have stopped doing LENR work [for a few days or weeks so that we can claim that we have stopped in good conscience, but we’ll ramp things up again soon]”

      The Space and Naval Warfare Command also publicly claimed they had called it quits in 2012 after publishing successful experimental results, but then we learn that other commands carried on. My impression is that multiple persons within the larger Navy umbrella have a deep interest in continuing LENR research. Let’s hope that is the case and that they will be courageous enough to release information to the public if it has even the most remote chance of uplifting humanity in any way.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      That he reached out through unofficial channels like he did indicates to me that their work was genuinely stopped and they have nothing to lose by coming out.

  • Lou Pagnucco

    The remark –
    “However, we struggled for years to determine if the heat is due to LENR or a very specific instrumental artefact – a short to ground in a certain wire with a certain resistance for the short.”
    – seems very strange. Does it take “years” to find a short? even an intermittent one?

    • Sanjeev

      You are right. IMO, a short can be found in minutes by simply measuring the resistance. Can be done with a cheap multimeter.

      • Ged

        I agree. It is a lame sounding excuse. Can’t see how simple instrumentation wouldn’t detect it (just measure total power draw!). The bigger the excess, the bigger the shorting effect would have to be; there’s no way to miss it if it’s a short.

        Hm. So strange. Doing everything they can to try to pretend it’s nothing, even if their excuse doesn’t work on “Eve”. Dunno what to make of such talk.

        • Sanjeev

          I guess someone wants to please the pathoskeptics and deniers.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          The only reason I can think of is that during those years no laboratory work was going on by management decision so they could only look at old data. Why laboratory work would have been stopped for years, one can only speculate about. Maybe someone raised the concern of radiation and the lab they were working in was not rated for radiological work. If at the same time the management resisted moving the activity to another department (or if no LENR-friendly radiation rated lab was found in the organisation), maybe that resulted in a stalemate situation. Deep speculation.

          • Ged

            By the way, great to hear from you again, Pekka!

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Thanks, Ged; you as well. I find myself writing here more rarely nowadays, I guess because most things have already been said. By the way, this week there is European astrobiology meeting, I’m not attending but coauthoring a poster “Evaporative Early Earth environments conducive to promote prebiotic synthesis and polymerisation”. Not my main research, but some touch with biology anyway.

      • Omega Z

        Sanjeev, I’ll have you know that it took me 2 days to find a short in a wiring harness in an old car.
        They’s a lot of wires. And due to Murphy’s law, it happen to be the last wire to be checked.

        Had to be careful how I worded that. Kind of like, found it in the last place I looked. Duh, You quit looking once you find it. At least I do… 🙂

        • Sanjeev

          OZ, they need people like you there for LENR research, who can find shorts quickly, I guess, a position of expert short finder is needed asap 🙂

          They got excess heat all the time, still they spent years trying to find the “short” that caused it, instead of going ahead and using that heat. Finally they quit. I mean WTH ?

          • Omega Z

            Sanjeev, I have 1 standing condition when working with electrical.
            I work alone & nobody can be within 1000 yards of the premises.

            I have learned the hard way. You can turn a breaker off. Put red tape across it with a sign in 4″ letters stating do not reset breaker. Block the path to the mains & Somebody will still come along & turn the power back on. 🙁

            I once consider hiring an armed guard with permission to stop people with extreme prejudice. My Insurance agent advised against it. 🙁

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I sense organisational panic on one hand, and personal willingness to set facts straight on the other hand. Pre-Rossi, the organisation’s first priority was probably to avoid a false positive. Post-Rossi, it became important for them to find rationalisations for how the Italian succeeded and they didn’t. While Rossi’s priority was always to make LENR work. Both got what they wanted: Rossi made the E-cat and the Navy successfully avoided the false positive.

  • Jonnyb

    A wire that somehow goes even lower in Resistance than it’s nominal resistance, is that what they are saying? sounds like the only excuse they could come up with, is this just a load of rubbish?

  • Job001

    Agree it will someday make a great movie!

    For any who are confused, It’s DOD budget preparation time. The DOD budget process usually starts in January while the preparation starts a few months beforehand. Happens every year.

    All alternatives get slandered, misread, obfuscated, or denigrated by sychopant shills, doing FUD as SOP(Standard Operating Procedure).


    No need to be excessively concerned;
    it’s the fun politics of funding and lying, not science!

  • Jarea

    This statement is ridiculous. How is possible you don’t know if you have excess heat after years!. LENR gives you a lot of excess. It is an easy measurement if you have such time. You can discard chemical and you can really measure what comes IN and what comes OUT in form of heat. That is an insult to every engineer and chemical scientist.
    The only explanation it comes to my mind is politic so they want to reduce the hype by creating some misinformation and unclear statement. They cannot negate it because they would appear as a liar afterwards but they cant create FUD. I think they plan to keep the slow roadmap they have agreed under the table for releasing the technology. That is sad. You can still be honest and keep the roadmap.

    • US_Citizen71

      It likely means the project went black. Superior to intrepid researcher wanting to find the cause of the anomalous heat, ” This is not something you need to worry about. Why don’t you take an inventory of the lab.”

  • Bob Greenyer


    • Jarea

      You mean that this problem with the shortcut in the measurement (reported by your source) is related to the disclamer F9?
      I have always thought that the disclaimer was about durability and reliability of the reactors. I think that LENR giving excess heat is already a fact.
      Could you develop your last comment a little more? XD

      • Teemu Soilamo

        I’m pretty sure it’s a quip at the oxymoronic nature of some of the statements. Don’t read too deep into it.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You are enlightened.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I cannot speak for a third parties research.

        I cannot speak for a third party analysis of another third parties research

        I for sure cannot speak for a third parties (B) comments on a third parties (A) analysis of third parties (B) data.

        What I can say is that in the MFMP/Alan Goldwater GS3 run, we saw anomalies that have not fully been explained away by us yet, but considering it was based on thermometry, confidence is rightly low. Alexander Parkhomov’s group looked at the live recorded data that was publicly issued and came to more definitive conclusions following analysis of that data in the context of their own experience – we cannot say their interpretation is right or corroborate what caveats they may or may not have given in the verbal presentation.

        A valid big signal is required for long time and/or statistically significant transmutations – the former was not seemingly present in the NRL tests, perhaps the latter was and this is what the report is referring to by “other interesting…” but we do not know the meaning of this tantalising comment.

        If Lugano report is valid then both conditions are met – but it is a very different experiment/apparatus to those Pd D at NRL, as is the 1MW reactor – and, even then Rossi likes to invoke “Results may be positive or negative (F9)” – in addition, Rossi has publicly distanced himself from the 62Ni result in his recent interview.

        • Ged

          Sounds like NRL was using calorimetry and had no problems with it according to this statement. Such a crazy world.

          Though, what is F9? As far as I find, it is Internet shorthand for “fine”, leaving me quite bewildered in its use, heh!

          • Bob Greenyer

            F9 is short for Rossi saying “Results may be positive or negative”

          • Ged

            That young man and his lingo slinging link a rufian!

        • Omega Z

          On JONP, Rossi has “distanced himself” as the sample analyzed was so small. He also indicated they had analyzed additional portions of the Lugano ash, but wont comment on it until the 1 year test is complete. Probably they want to compare it with the ash of the test plant for a more definitive answer.

  • Omega Z

    “However, we struggled for years to determine if the heat is due to LENR or a very specific instrumental artifact – a short to ground in a certain wire with a certain resistance for the short.”

    When your working in milliwatts, Caution is necessary. However, this would have nothing to do with Rossi’s technology & the pilot plant.

    With 250kWh at the mains & an output of 1mWh of steam, No such imaginably small shorting of a ground could account for the difference.

    • Navsea is != NRL?

      Or is it the same, and Navsea is just an alias?
      Could it be that Navsea is just a smaller sub institution of NRL, and NRL moved LENR research to Navsea because they don’t saw high priority?

      And now Navsea has lot of new experience of which NRL don’t know anything?

      • AdrianAshfield

        See my reply to Rob S about half way down in the comments

        • So this means? Navsea is more important than NRL?

          • Ged

            Higher authority and more divisions under NAVSEA’s jurisdiction, yes.

    • bkrharold

      The statement “However, we struggled for years…..”, does not pass the smell test. A well equipped laboratory with trained professional scientists should not take that long to confirm or exclude the presence of a short. It sounds like everyone involved has been told to sit down and shut up. It was a foolish dream to imagine that our government agencies will ever do anything to help the American people.

      • Omega Z

        They probably have a mortgage & kids in college, Thus, The scenario they try to avoid-

        We’ve excluded the shorting issue. It is excess heat.
        Now if you’ll pardon me, I’ve been asked to clean out my desk.
        It appears I’m taking an unscheduled early retirement. 🙁

        • Frechette

          “It appears I’m taking an unscheduled early retirement. :-(” —- to spend quality time with my family. Famous last words.

    • LCD

      Yeah agreed the short doesn’t quite make sense unless you’re dealing with tiny amounts of excess beat.

  • bkrharold

    It is just as well this will soon be out of their unreliable hands, when Rossi releases the positive results in a few months

  • GreenWin

    If we had to equip a research center to investigate LENR phenomena (by another name) – it could be Section 6390 at NRL’s Materials Science and Technology Division. But for sure (wink) they’re not doing LENR research:

    “We investigate the physics of clean and adsorbed surfaces of
    semiconductors and metals. Reduced dimensionality plays an important
    role at surfaces, profoundly influencing electronic and magnetic
    properties. We also study the interfaces between materials, which are at
    the heart of technologically important phenomena such as grain-boundary
    formation, band-offset engineering, and spin injection.”

  • Private Citizen

    Possible short circuit explanation reads like using “swamp gas” to explain away credible UFO sightings in Project Grudge.

    • GreenWin
      • Private Citizen

        Normally referred to as the “Michigan Swamp Gas Case of 1966,” this
        wave of sightings would be much more than just sighting reports. It
        would be a landmark case in the history of Ufology. For a period of 6-7
        days, UFOs were observed by witnesses, and confirmed by radar flying at
        incredible speeds, making unbelievable maneuvers, and at times hovering.
        This case would show the Air Force’s attitude toward average American
        citizens, and expose a poor attempt at a cover-up.

        UFOs Dive, Climb, & Hover:

        Regarding the many reports made over Michigan during this time period, Washtenaw County deputies Bushroe and Foster stated:

        is the strangest thing that [we] have ever witnessed. We would have not
        believed this story if we hadn’t seen it with our own eyes. These
        objects could move at fantastic speeds, and make very sharp turns, dive
        and climb, and hover with great maneuverability.

        We have no idea what these objects were, or where they could have come from.”

        Four Objects in Straight Line:

        Objects in Straight Line: One of the most amazing sightings was
        observed by law enforcement. On a midnight shift, Deputy Bushroe
        observed four UFOs, flying in a line formation for about an hour. He
        stated to the press:

        “It would swing back and forth like a pendulum, then shoot upward at tremendous speed, hover and then come down just as fast.”

        police and Livingston County sheriffs confirmed the sighting, saying
        they saw the same objects engaging in the same maneuvers.

        Two Top-Shaped Objects Seen:

        March 17, in Milan, Sgt. Nuel Schneider and Deputy David Fitzpatrick
        observed several top-shaped UFOs engaged in incredible aerial

        The objects would then hover, fall, and then rise
        again, seemingly defying gravity. Their lights would dim and brighten,
        relative to the speed of their moves. NICAP, which did extensive
        investigation into the Michigan flap, reported that often several UFOs
        would operate, or “play ” together.

        Object with Quilted Surface:

        Not all of the Michigan sightings were of objects flying through
        the air. On March 20, in Dexter, Frank Mannor, his family, and dozens of
        other witnesses saw a “domed, oval-shaped object with a ‘quilted’
        surface actually land in a nearby swamp. The object had lights in the
        center, and on each end. Two deputies, Fitzpatrick and McFadden arrived
        on the scene, and initiated a search to find the object with Manor.

        Multi-Colored Lights:

        along with his son, followed the UFO into the bog, but as they grew
        nearer to it, it slowly rose up, moved right above their heads, and
        quickly disappeared into the night sky. Mannor made this report about
        the search:

        “While in the woods area, a brilliant light was
        observed from the far edge of the woods, and upon [our] approaching, the
        light dimmed in brilliance… the brilliant light [then] again
        appeared, and then disappeared. A continued search of the area was
        conducted, through swamp and high grass, with negative results.”

        Object Buzzes Police Car:

        officers were witness to the UFO over the swamp, and they were shocked
        at the maneuverability of the UFO. One UFO had moved directly over where
        their flashlights were aimed, then lifted and departed at high speed in
        a westerly direction. As more officers were moving toward the scene of
        the landing, Officer Robert Hartwell of the Dexter division saw a UFO
        buzz his car.

        “Swamp Gas” Explanation:

        There were
        numerous sightings during the Michigan wave of 1966. The case itself is
        very memorable for another important event that occurred. Project Blue
        Book sent Dr. J. Allen Hynek
        to investigate the sighting reports. At first, Hynek agreed that there
        was something going on in the Michigan skies. But after consulting with
        the Blue Book headquarters, he changed his mind, and said that the
        sightings were nothing more than “swamp gas.”

        Hynek Changes Mind:

        would later change his attitude about UFOs, and ultimately, become one
        of the foremost and well-known UFO proponents ever. He would be credited
        with coining the phrase, “close encounters of the third kind,” and was a
        consultant on the movie by the same name. He also had a cameo role in
        the film. Before his death, he created the CUFOS web site, which is
        still maintained today.


        There were over 100 witnesses to the Michigan “swamp gas” UFOs

  • Omega Z


  • Gerard McEk

    This article sounds to me as if there is considerable friction between NAVSEA and DeChiaro. Maybe DeChiaro was allowed to publish the presentation, but not the additional interview (which was the most interesting). It would be nice if DeChiaro would take the opportunity to discuss issues on this forum. Was it Dubrinco’s article that opened his eyes?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Robert is right, the statement in this post is merely appropriate scientific caution given the implications, it should be viewed in the context of the link that Robert Ellefson has given.