Live Experiment by me356 Using Rossi Patent Recipe

Thanks to the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project for posting about another live experiment that is being conducted by me356 using the fuel recipe from Andrea Rossi’s recently approved patent.

Live data from the experiment can be followed here: http://lenr-experiment.tk/

The MFMP Facebook page gives the following description of the experimental setup:

It is a stainless steel tube, lined with pure Iron foil (from E-Bay, China) and a mixture of baked Alfa Aesar 99.8% Ni – Spherical APS 5-15 um (25g, Euro60), Lithium 3mm wire (that came stored under paraffin) and Alfa Aesar LiAlH4 97%.

me356 has hacked the Optris PI160 (hot spot), GMC-300 Geiger Counter and PCE-830 power monitor so all the feeds are available on Plot.ly.

There is approximately 11cc of free volume and after raising the temperature to around 172ºC and holding it there, the pressure first rose to 2 bar and has dropped, presumably as the oxygen and oxides are removed from the cell. Next step will be to take it through melting point of Lithium.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Going for 190ºC to 250ºC over 30 mins now.

    • LCD

      Ok love the status updates. That totally should be a thing now for every experiment. More commentary please.

  • Ecco

    May I suggest a webcam pointing at the pressure gauge so that live pressure readings will be possible?

  • Ecco

    May I suggest a webcam pointing at the pressure gauge so that live pressure readings will be possible?

  • Bob Greenyer

    moving to 400ºC in next 30 mins.

  • Bob Greenyer

    moving to 400ºC in next 30 mins.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Moving to 450ºC in next 30mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    Moving to 450ºC in next 30mins

  • Sanjeev

    Are there any shots from optris ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      The Optris temperature file is being captured by me356’s custom software. This allows him to drive the PID with it. It also auto switched between the Optris calibration files for the camera – which is very cool.

      Will post full capture after experiment with versions of the viewer built for various platforms.

  • Sanjeev

    Are there any shots from optris ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      The Optris temperature file is being captured by me356’s custom software. This allows him to drive the PID with it. It also auto switches between the Optris calibration files for the camera – which is very cool.

      Will post full capture after experiment with versions of the viewer built for various platforms.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Going to 500ºC in next 40 mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    Going to 500ºC in next 40 mins

  • Charlie tapp

    For anyone as bad as me with online skills when you go to the expierement link you have to click on the empty graph then it will take you to plotless

  • Bob Greenyer

    going to 600ºC in next 40 mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    going to 600ºC in next 40 mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    As it approaches 600ºC, the pressure is really dropping (in theory, as the LiH is formed from the free Lithium and Hydrogen that was released from the LiAlH4 – but could also be because it is a steel tube that is proton conducting)

  • Bob Greenyer

    As it approaches 600ºC, the pressure is really dropping (in theory, as the LiH is formed from the free Lithium and Hydrogen that was released from the LiAlH4 – but could also be because it is a steel tube that is proton conducting)

  • Bob Greenyer

    Going to 700ºC in next 30 mins – LiH melts at 688.7ºC, so that may expose more free lithium to sequester more H2.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Going to 700ºC in next 30 mins – LiH melts at 688.7ºC, so that may expose more free lithium to sequester more H2.

  • Bob Greenyer

    as predicted – pressure now under 1/2 bar gauge (1.5bar absolute) – and dropping

  • Bob Greenyer

    as predicted – pressure now under 1/2 bar gauge (1.5bar absolute) – and dropping

  • Bob Greenyer

    look like we have gone below atmospheric now – running a little blind… about to hot LiH melting point

  • Bob Greenyer

    look like we have gone below atmospheric now – running a little blind… about to hot LiH melting point

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – so went though melting point of LiH and now pressure is going back up – already at 1/2 bar gauge again and still rising even though temp holding steady at 700ºC

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – so went though melting point of LiH and now pressure is going back up – already at 1/2 bar gauge again and still rising even though temp holding steady at 700ºC

  • Bob Greenyer

    pressure of 3/4 bar over atm seems settled at 700ºC – so going to take it to 890ºC (Just under LiH breakdown temp) over the next 30 mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    pressure of 3/4 bar over atm seems settled at 700ºC – so going to take it to 890ºC (Just under LiH breakdown temp) over the next 30 mins

  • LuFong

    I appreciate the running commentary Bob. I can’t be here to watch but I am checking in from time to time and it’s nice to be able to come up to speed. Very much interested in this experiment. Good luck!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks – 1.2 bar (over atm) now at 782ºC

  • Bob Greenyer

    SteelCell_RossiLikeFuel_Iron_Sheath calibration file here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WTzJWcm9vazVuaGc/view?usp=sharing

  • Bob Greenyer

    SteelCell_RossiLikeFuel_Iron_Sheath calibration file here

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WTzJWcm9vazVuaGc/view?usp=sharing

  • Bob Greenyer

    The pressure is more than 2 bars over atm at 890ºC, when it looks like it has settled, we will take it to 900ºC where there is a calibration point.

  • Bob Greenyer

    OK – going to break that LiH up… going to 1000ºC in 30 mins

    • Ged

      Holding together well so far it seems! Fun having parallel experiments, but a lot to track, haha

  • Bob Greenyer

    OK – going to break that LiH up… going to 1000ºC in 30 mins

    • Ged

      Holding together well so far it seems! Fun having parallel experiments, but a lot to track, haha

  • Bob Greenyer

    Now dropping to 700ºC in 10 minutes

  • Bob Greenyer

    Now dropping to 700ºC in 10 minutes

  • Bob Greenyer

    at 700ºC pressure now held at 1.35 bar over atm – so going to drop to 500ºC in 10 minutes

  • Bob Greenyer

    at 700ºC pressure now held at 1.35 bar over atm – so going to drop to 500ºC in 10 minutes

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ok – 500ºC, 1 bar over atm… taking to 600 in 60s

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ok – 500ºC, 1 bar over atm… taking to 600 in 60s

  • Good luck with everything, Bob!

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – going to 1100ºC in 10 mins

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – going to 1100ºC in 10 mins

  • Ged

    It’s about 20 W below calibration at 600 C. I’ll update with a chart as soon as I can. It’s a lot of data in an unfortunately not excel friendly format.

  • Ged

    Calibration with 50 point moving average

    http://s13.postimg.org/thztur413/151009_calibration.png

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks Ged – Will make the data so far available soon

  • Ged

    Calibration with 50 point moving average

    http://s13.postimg.org/thztur413/151009_calibration.png

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks Ged – Will make the data so far available soon

  • Sanjeev

    So far I see nothing unusual. What’s the plan ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will have a think – pressure flat, on or below atm.

      nothing out of the ordinary as you say

  • Sanjeev

    So far I see nothing unusual. What’s the plan ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will have a think – pressure flat, on or below atm.

      nothing out of the ordinary as you say

  • Gerard McEk

    Unfortunately there is no sign if LENR yet. I was not able to modify the x-axis over a longer period to see what happend this night. Older data seems to be deleted. Is that right?

    • Bob Greenyer

      data is logged and all will be published at the end. I can’t make a bounce stream as am co-located.

  • Gerard McEk

    Unfortunately there is no sign if LENR yet. I was not able to modify the x-axis over a longer period to see what happend this night. Older data seems to be deleted. Is that right?

    • Bob Greenyer

      data is logged and all will be published at the end. I can’t make a bounce stream as am co-located.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – going to take it down to 600ºC over 30 mins

    • Just before this decrease the setpoint was set a little bit higher.
      After that, the setpoints were steadily decreased, but the temperature still rose up a little.

      Was this an artefact? Or was this a little reaction? Maybe me356 should try to do such “triggers” more often?

      • Bob Greenyer

        me356 had a limit on the high range power that it was hitting – he removed the limit and that caused the bump.

  • Bob Greenyer

    ok – going to take it down to 600ºC over 30 mins

    • Just before this decrease the setpoint was set a little bit higher.
      After that, the setpoints were steadily decreased, but the temperature still rose up a little.

      Was this an artefact? Or was this a little reaction? Maybe me356 should try to do such “triggers” more often?

      • Bob Greenyer

        me356 had a limit on the high range power that it was hitting – he removed the limit and that caused the bump.

  • Bob Greenyer

    now to 400ºC in 10 mins before bumping up

  • Bob Greenyer

    now to 400ºC in 10 mins before bumping up

  • Bob Greenyer

    At 400ºC external Optris PI160 peak temp average – the input power now is 84.50W compared to 90W during calibration.

    looks like change in resistance of coil can account for bulk of this change.

    • Bob Greenyer

      We are trying to tweak to 90W to see what temp we get. This is very imprecise of course and should not be over analysed at this stage.

    • Mats002

      Hi Bob, are you planning to test with some kind of extra EM stimulation? A strong permanent magnet or even ultrasound?

      • Bob Greenyer
        • Bob Greenyer

          ok – EMI generator finished

          A few material changes later (card instead of dowel for support and two types of double sided media), we finished the EMI generator.

          Perhaps this should be used before running an experiment to align nickel powder before it sinters

          • Bob Greenyer

            Will take to 700ºC and then try the EMI generator.

          • artefact

            Maybe this is the “frequency generator” Rossi used when the reactor did not want to start…

          • Bob Greenyer

            who can say?

          • A suggestion I’ve made before: Perhaps Rossi discovered the value of EM stimulation ‘serendipitously’ by attempting at some point to use induction heating of the nickel powder instead of embedded resistance heaters. That would make sense in that it would avoid the possibility of relatively delicate resistor coils burning out, and heating would have been more controllable and precise. If that was the case then a simple field coil and variable resistor, initially with 50/60Hz AC running through it, could be worth a try.

          • Charlie tapp

            Just wondering on the alignment of the nickel . In metal working I sometimes heat to red hot and then rapidly tap the red hot metal to align the molecules some old man told me that one time he said it will make the metal stronger. Maybe before shutting down the next set of tests you guys could try doing some different suggestion from the crowd. Like I like the frequency MP3 file idea, I use one when adjusting base frequency on stereo systems I build.the base tones on those things are awesome need a good size woofer for that. Maybe disconnect power and hook up strait 12 volts, or rig the door on a microwave and throw it inside and set to high for a minute. I don’t know just some fun stuff to lighten the whole thing up a little, try talking to it Rossi seems very intimate with his maybe it is alive.

    • Ged

      Well, power is power. The same amount of power is always needed to heat the same amount of material to the same temp etc etc. If power is not just being assumed off of voltage with an unknown but presumed fixed resistance as we did in the past, but directly measured, then resistance changes won’t really matter. So, just depends on how it is being measured.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ok – nothing of interest – shutting down – ready for next experiment.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Ok – nothing of interest – shutting down – ready for next experiment.

  • Ged

    Here we go, composite graph of Calibration and the Run all on one chart (same 50 point moving average, as it’s a very, very stable trace, for which I heartily commend our experimenters for!). I broke the active part of the run into two segments, as the “part 2” is a brief power down and power back up event which is rapid enough to keep temperature lagging behind power, it seems. The end point is definitely on the calibration line.

    Synopsis: The run is definitely slightly shifted to higher T/W for a bit in the 500-700 C region and others, but this is an insignificant amount and stays very very close if not perfectly on the calibration line.

    http://s9.postimg.org/xom08ut4f/151011_Run1.png

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks Ged – much appreciated.

      Getting ready for next experiment.

      • Ged

        Looking forward to it, and standing by!

        • Bob Greenyer

          As a head up, it is sort of like a mash-up between Celani and Rossi.

          • Ged

            Ohhh, you do so like to excite the experimentalist in me, I see.

      • Next experiment to incorporate effect of external EM field? If so, static or AC driven?

        On Edit: OK, HV DC pulse, per your link below.

        How about trying a coil stripped from an old EM loudspeaker? If you don’t have a frequency generator handy you could even drive it via MP3 files of different frequencies played through an MP3 player and an audio amplifier!

    • Mats002

      Great work Ged! Something might going on in the 500 – 700 temp window, hope the EM kick can make some excitement in that or the other lower ranges that differ from the calibration run.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Sadly not in this run

  • Ged

    Trying out another way of looking at the data to see if it might be a more intuitive tool for evaluate excess. This won’t replace the temperature vs power chart, as that’s direct data, but I may post these as supplements if they may be useful for helping to visualize and wrap the head around the magnitude of results. A COP of 2, for instance, would mean a 2x multiplier offset of c/w from calibration, which would be painfully visible in this chart type. Onset of excess production would also be an obvious break in the trace behavior.

    It’s very good to see how consistent an unsuccessful run is to calibration. (Note: The downward bowls in the calibration here and in the temp vs power chart are likely due to points where power is changing faster than temperature can reach steady state, which would prevent proper measurement of what the temperature would have been for that power in, making it lower per watt)

    http://s8.postimg.org/ibibn4x7p/151011_Run1_Cper_W.png

    • Bob Greenyer

      Everything you have said here is spot on.

      Will do more time steady state on the next experiment calibration

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think the most value from this experiment can be determined from the pressure against temp/power input relationship. We will publish all the images of pressure from the run to enable this soon.

    • SG

      Am I interpreting this graph correctly in that it appears there was a clear excess of heat from about 200 C to 400 C? This seems like a curious correlation to Rossi’s “low temperature” e-Cat, from which the recently issued patent is based. And given that me356 is using Rossi’s patent recipe, I can’t help but think this test run yielded interesting results. The magnitude is not nearly what is reported in the patent, but a lower magnitude signal is present.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Sadly not – it is an artefact due to the averaging on the way the calibration is done.

  • Bob Greenyer
  • Bob Greenyer
  • Ged

    Calibration graphs:

    http://s3.postimg.org/5huwpg6kj/151011_mashup_calibration.png

    http://s14.postimg.org/w32jyofv5/151011_mashup_calibration_Cper_W.png

    The spikes seem to be from the power momentarily overshooting the set point and the temperature inertia taking a moment to come back down from the overshoot.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks for your graphing Ged

      I’m to sleep now.

      • Ged

        Rest up!

  • Ged

    Calibration graphs:

    http://s3.postimg.org/5huwpg6kj/151011_mashup_calibration.png

    http://s18.postimg.org/4hvwenhq1/151011_mashup_calibration_Cper_W.png

    The spikes seem to be from the power momentarily overshooting the set point and the temperature inertia taking a moment to catch up.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Thanks for your graphing Ged

      I’m to sleep now.

      • Ged

        Rest up!

  • Ged

    Running about 5-6 watts below calibration for this set point at the moment, which is about 7-8.5% lower.

    • Bob Greenyer

      me356 has just gone to bed – but he calculated just above 8% lower input power average. (before you made your comment)

      We have decided to leave it steady at 400ºC overnight to see if there is any material changes.

      To stop you getting bored, here is a little gift…

      Padua cell takedown photos

      Raw, uncut, no comment.

      http://89.102.3.236:5000/fbsharing/1aXNo8Tz

      • Ged

        Sounds like a great idea!

        Also, fantastic quality images.Those heater coils broke down quite impressively.

  • Ged

    Running about 5-6 watts below calibration for this set point at the moment, which is about 7-8.5% lower.

    Edit: that’s just a rough guess, looking at the high end of the probable average; won’t know exact till the data is actually analyzed.

    • Bob Greenyer

      me356 has just gone to bed – but he calculated just above 8% lower input power average. (before you made your comment)

      We have decided to leave it steady at 400ºC overnight to see if there is any material changes.

      To stop you getting bored, here is a little gift…

      Padua cell takedown photos

      Raw, uncut, no comment.

      https://goo.gl/4o15zz

      • Ged

        Sounds like a great idea!

        Also, fantastic quality images.Those heater coils broke down quite impressively.

  • Stephen

    Just taken a look at the pictures over on the Facebook page and your quantum heat website. The device looks really elegant, beautiful even, really nice work. The thermal image from the Optris is especially beautiful I think. Any chance of posting one here from the current run?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will post thermal image data at least by end of run.

  • Stephen

    Just taken a look at the pictures over on the Facebook page and the quantum heat website. The device looks really elegant, beautiful even, really nice work. The thermal image from the Optris is especially beautiful I think. Any chance of posting one here from the current run?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Will post thermal image data at least by end of run.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yes – though needs to be run in a calorimeter or Parkhomov-style boiling water reactor.

      At the moment the calibration and live run data are taken from the hottest spot on the Optris PI-160

      At the end of the run – and average over the hot zone/reactor for calibration and live run will give a more accurate impression.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Yes – though needs to be run in a calorimeter or Parkhomov-style boiling water reactor.

      At the moment the calibration and live run data are taken from the hottest spot on the Optris PI-160

      At the end of the run – and average over the hot zone/reactor for calibration and live run will give a more accurate impression.