Swedish Scientists Publish Paper Claiming “Ponderomotive Forces” Explain LENR (Mats Lewan)

As promised, Mats Lewan has published what appears to be some important news on his An Impossible Invention blog. He reports that two Swedish scientists will present a new theory about LENR in this paper titled “Nuclear Spallation and Neutron Capture Induced by Ponderomotive Wave Forcing” at the 11th International Workshop on Anomalies in 
Hydrogen Loaded Metals, that is being hosted this year by Airbus in Toulouse, France.

Mats’ post can be read here: http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/

This new LENR theory, developed by Rickard Lundin and Hans Lidgren, is based around a the phenomenon known as ponderomotive force (‘a nonlinear force that a charged particle experiences in an inhomogeneous oscillating electromagnetic field’ — Wikipedia), and that neutrons are “shaken loose” from matter at resonant frequencies through an electromagnetic interaction, and when those neutrons are captured by another element, energy is released in large quantities.

Lundin and Lidgren have been in communication with Mats Lewan and have explained that the energy release and isotopic shifts described in the Lugano Report on Rossi’s E-Cat could be explained by ponderomotive force. Subsequently, they did an experiment of their own which verified their theory, but quickly stopped the experiment over concerns about neutron production. A new experiment is planned under carefully controlled conditions.

Input energy is needed to shake loose the neutrons, and Lundin and Lidgren have written a patent around their process. They told Mats Lewan:

“Our method is more precise, using the lowest possible amount of energy [through resonance] to shake loose the neutrons. Others like Rossi are creating turbulence through square waves [in the electrical current feeding the heat resistors controlling the reaction — square waves containing a large number of harmonics and thus many different frequencies], and they get a turbulent wave spectrum risking that some frequencies become a little too high.”

Lundin and Lidgren claim this is a natural phenomenon which takes place inside the earth and would account for the high temperatures maintained beneath the earth’s crust.

  • Warthog

    This sounds pretty much like Brillouin’s technique. It may be that different resonant frequencies result in maximizing different pathways, with one maximizing neutrons, another tritium production, and yet another simply heat. This appears to me to disagree with much experimental work, which pretty much says that MOST LENR does NOT produce neutrons.

    • John Schut

      All the ‘produced’ neutrons are captured in the surrounding lattice.

      • ecatworld

        This is an excerpt from Mats Lewan’s An Impossible Invention describing a time when Rossi detected neutrons when pushing the E-Cat to its limits.

        “Rossi continued to experiment with his reactors in Bondeno, among other things to test the reactor’s limits. One way was to push it harder, to where it was self-sustaining, without assistance from the electric heating cartridges. He knew it was dangerous because the reaction could become unstable. He later described an incident one night in June 2010, when he was, as usual, working alone in the laboratory and the temperature inside the reactor began to rise uncontrollably.”

        “In the balmy summer night Rossi followed the temperature development in the device that was set up in the spartan hangar with its gray concrete floor and gray walls. None of his measures to suppress the reaction helped yet he stayed stubbornly to see what he could learn. It exploded finally and loudly while a couple of parts flew across the hangar. This time Rossi was scared. Unlike earlier explosions, this time he was wearing the radiation detectors Focardi had taught him to use and they were full of bubbles—a sure sign of dangerous neutron radiation. How strong the radiation dose was he did not know but it probably decayed quickly. He knew that the reactor materials were not radioactive and had now learned that the weak radioactivity during the reaction should subside within 20 minutes after the reactor was stopped. No harm done, he noted, but he also thought that he must establish greater safety margins and keep the reaction running with support from the electric heaters in the future.”

        Mats Lewan. An Impossible Invention (Kindle Locations 1436-1441). Mats Lewan.

        • ecatworld

          AR on this paper: “It is very interesting. I love his citation of the immense Prof. Sven Kullander, whi continues to look at our working 1 MW plant from the plate we dedicated to him. It is a paper to be studied with attention.”

          • Jarea

            This paper contradicts his theory. Isn´t it?
            If i understood well Rossi says that the LENR fusion is produced by quantum tunneling with protons overcoming the coulomb barrier in the nucleus.
            This papers says, we shake the deuterium atoms to obtain some free neutrons (some energy to the system is added) and these neutrons will easily fuse with other heavier elements (because they don´t have charge) releasing energy.

            The trick is to extract with less energy the neutrons from deuterium so that we have more energy when they fuse again to heavier elements.
            I still don´t understand why do you consume less energy to extract the neutrons than you receive from fusing again with heavier elements.
            Can somebody explain?

          • Gerrit

            I am not sure if this “Ponderomotive Forces” theory can explain the creation of Helium, which has been measured in D/Pd systems.

            Maybe there are even more distinct LENRs and this is “just” one of them.

          • ecatworld

            Rossi too has reported detecting helium in the E-Cat

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/04/08/rossi-helium-found-in-e-cat-reaction/

          • John Chapman
        • Albert D. Kallal

          I don’t get this context:

          >>One way was to push it harder, to where it was self-sustaining, without assistance from the electric heating cartridges.

          What way? The context is not clear. What way is it to push harder? How is something being pushed harder here in this context? While I assume this means some kind of EM stimulation, the given quote says nothing about em stimulation.

          A remarkable account by the way! –

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • ecatworld

            I think what is meant is that the E-Cat was allowed to self sustain without any external stimulation to dampen the reaction. In the end it exploded.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right, but the external stimulation to my knowledge was
            NEVER used to dampen the LENR effect, but only enhance it.

            I am not aware that the EM stimulation is use to HALT or
            prevent the LENR effect, but only the reverse.

            So it is not clear why this setup would self-sustain
            without EM and melt down?

            The “difference” here in the setup that allowed the “run
            away” is not clear at all.

            I certainly understand that some design could be changed
            here, but why this setup would “run away” is not clear.

            A lack of EM field does not enhance or allow the LENR effect,
            but in fact it is the reverse and such EM stimulation enhances the LENR effect.

            I can only conclude that “some” context is missing here,
            since the statement as taken does not make sense taken alone..

            If EM is used to dampen and prevent the LENR effect, this is news to me (and a am most happy to be corrected on this view if I am wrong).

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • ecatworld

            Yes, as far as I am aware, external stimulus has always been used by control the reactions and prevent them from becoming over-energetic, ‘running away’ and melting the E-Cat down.

          • US_Citizen71

            I would have to look back for supporting quotes, but I believe Rossi has several times in the past eluded to the reactor being able to self sustain after being driven to very high output and that power to the coil could prevent that from happening. The image of the red almost white hot steel pipe container HotCat was one time I remember him eluding to this.

            I believe that the PID controllers that many experimentalists are using prevent the reaction from happening due to a dampening effect caused by the random shutdown of the power creating uncomplimentary resonances.

          • Zephir

            It’s simple: the heating increases COP and accelerates LENR up to level it becomes uncontrollable. So you should heat slower and admit lower COP for the sake of stability of reaction,

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Of course! – I feel stupid not realzing this! Thanks for pointing out the MOST simple issue. I mean, when the LENR reaction starts you turn off the heating element and let it slow down until it needs another kick. You simply keep the heat on – it will runaway and melt if you don’t turn things off. I was thrown off by the mention of EM etc. – how silly of me!

            Thanks kindly for point out what is so dead obvious.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Warthog

            “Right, but the external stimulation to my knowledge was
            NEVER used to dampen the LENR effect, but only enhance it.”

            Correct…..but “if” the resonance idea is correct, I would think it would be possible using the same approach as in sound-damping headphones by feeding in an em pulse train properly tuned. If true, it should yield an exquisite method for control of the reaction. Feed one sort of pulse in to stimulate, and a different pulse to dampen runaway conditions.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure, it could be possible – that’s not the CONEXT here.

            So perhaps EM could be used, but it NEVER been used
            before in the past in any LENR device I am aware of to STOP the LENR effect. We not speculation here, someone flat out stated that EM is being used to dampen the effect to slow down LENR.

            As Zephi point out even a drunken rodeo clown should realize
            that Rossi allowed the reactor to “run away” by simply keeping the driver (the heater) on as the LENR effect starts. Normally then one turns off the heater else LENR will cause the temperature to CONTINUE to increase.

            The error here is that someone suggested that EM was used to
            slow down LENR effect – Rossi has NEVER suggested this. Using EM to slow down LENR was a complete new bit of information that NONE of us here have EVER seen or heard about. And new information about Rossi’s reactor is ALWAYS VERY
            interesting. So you mean new information about LENR that we not see in 30+ years is being talked about here? Wow!!!!! So I pressed for more information and realized this was a wild goose chase.

            So introduction of EM into the account of Rossi allowing
            the reactor to run-away and melt down was incorrect, and complete out of context. Not the case, and no use of EM to slow down Rossi’s reactor occurred.

            Zephir explain of what (how) Rossi allowed this runaway
            is so stupid and simple and is of course what Rossi did here. (so I am embarrassed I did not realize this).

            Most interesting however is the significant release of
            Gamma radiation. The Airbus patient also mentioned this gamma radiation issue. In the Airbus patent, they mention that if the reaction goes beyond a certain point and strength, then significant amounts of gamma radiation occurs (a big story, as it suggests that Airbus has built working reactors else how would they know this?).

            And this issue of large releases of gamma radiation from
            a LENR device could be a HUGE stumbling block for regulators (governments) to allow LENR devices at the consumer level. I suspect this ONE big reason why few know of this Rossi account in which gamma radiation was released in a significant amounts.

            This in effect suggest that not only can LENR be dangerous, it also suggest that a nuclear device with significant risk could be built from such LENR devices by simply allowing the device to “run away”.

            Ad this opens up the doors for people to by intention modify such devices to go critical – in effect this becomes a dangerous nuclear weapon.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Warthog

            1) My comment had zero to do with Rossi, but with the Swedes published paper, and the idea of resonance frequencies.

            2) Since Rossi powers his heaters with AC, there is ALWAYS EM present. But with the possible exceptions of Godes and maybe SPAWAR, almost no work has been done on investigating the effects.

            3) The release of gamma radiation fits my notion of multiple possible reaction pathways (and has been mentioned regarding Rossi’s reactors since day one).

            4) I think it unnecessary to get into the whole FUD notion of “making a bomb” in the sense of an actual nuclear weapon. Can there be explosions….obviously yes, but I doubt that the rate of increase of output of a “runaway” is fast enough to release “kiloton-range” amounts of energy before the device self-destructs (and yes, this “is” an explosion, but of a much lesser regime that a nuclear device).

          • Albert D. Kallal

            No problem on your commands not being in regards to Rossi
            (but that was the context of this discussion).

            I agree with the FUD point. However, anything you deal with non-chemicalenergy and are talking about nuclear, then we are in a different ball game.

            Remember, P&F accident is what tipped them off to LENR in the first place. A small chunk of loaded metal melted though a steel lab table and about 1 foot into a cement floor. This is quite beyond what a chemical reaction with such a small mass can achieve. And now we have accounts from Rossi (and Airbus) of significant
            amounts of Gamma can be released from such devices).

            LENR may well provide a means to have a loaded meatal lattice
            go critical – especially if that is ones intention.

            While I think LENR technology is likely the safest form
            of energy we have, it does suggest like any great technology, the uses go beyond just providing heat for your home.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Axil Axil

          The detector could have been detecting muons.

      • Warthog

        I think this statistically unlikely. “Some” of the neutrons pretty much must get out.

        And I think Frank’s quote from Mats Lewans books (below) point to the “multiple pathways” idea. During normal, pseudo-steady-state operation, few or no neutrons produced. During “runaway” conditions a “many more neutrons” reaction path becomes prevalent.

    • Josh G

      I had the same thought. I think Godes calls them Q-wave pulses. Also don’t forget that Sidney Kimmel paid for the Israeli firm Energetics to set up shop at the University of Missouri to investigate the effect of Irving Dardik’s “Superwaves” on LENR. If they’ve had any success, it’s possible that they operate through this mechanism. It would also explain the supposed importance of electormagnetic radation in LENR that many researchers/tinkerers have found.

  • Warthog

    This sounds pretty much like Brillouin’s technique. It may be that different resonant frequencies result in maximizing different pathways, with one maximizing neutrons, another tritium production, and yet another simply heat. This appears to me to disagree with much experimental work, which pretty much says that MOST LENR does NOT produce neutrons.

    • John Schut

      All the ‘produced’ neutrons are captured in the surrounding lattice.

      • Frank Acland

        This is an excerpt from Mats Lewan’s An Impossible Invention describing a time when Rossi detected neutrons when pushing the E-Cat to its limits.

        “Rossi continued to experiment with his reactors in Bondeno, among other things to test the reactor’s limits. One way was to push it harder, to where it was self-sustaining, without assistance from the electric heating cartridges. He knew it was dangerous because the reaction could become unstable. He later described an incident one night in June 2010, when he was, as usual, working alone in the laboratory and the temperature inside the reactor began to rise uncontrollably.”

        “In the balmy summer night Rossi followed the temperature development in the device that was set up in the spartan hangar with its gray concrete floor and gray walls. None of his measures to suppress the reaction helped yet he stayed stubbornly to see what he could learn. It exploded finally and loudly while a couple of parts flew across the hangar. This time Rossi was scared. Unlike earlier explosions, this time he was wearing the radiation detectors Focardi had taught him to use and they were full of bubbles—a sure sign of dangerous neutron radiation. How strong the radiation dose was he did not know but it probably decayed quickly. He knew that the reactor materials were not radioactive and had now learned that the weak radioactivity during the reaction should subside within 20 minutes after the reactor was stopped. No harm done, he noted, but he also thought that he must establish greater safety margins and keep the reaction running with support from the electric heaters in the future.”

        Mats Lewan. An Impossible Invention (Kindle Locations 1436-1441). Mats Lewan.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          I don’t get this context:

          >>One way was to push it harder, to where it was self-sustaining, without assistance from the electric heating cartridges.

          What way? The context is not clear. What way is it to push harder? How is something being pushed harder here in this context? While I assume this means some kind of EM stimulation, the given quote says nothing about em stimulation.

          A remarkable account by the way! –

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Frank Acland

            I think what is meant is that the E-Cat was allowed to self sustain without any external stimulation to dampen the reaction. In the end it exploded.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right, but the external stimulation to my knowledge was
            NEVER used to dampen the LENR effect, but only enhance it.

            I am not aware that the EM stimulation is use to HALT or
            prevent the LENR effect, but only the reverse.

            So it is not clear why this setup would self-sustain
            without EM and melt down?

            The “difference” here in the setup that allowed the “run
            away” is not clear at all.

            I certainly understand that some design could be changed
            here, but why this setup would “run away” is not clear.

            A lack of EM field does not enhance or allow the LENR effect,
            but in fact it is the reverse and such EM stimulation enhances the LENR effect.

            I can only conclude that “some” context is missing here,
            since the statement as taken does not make sense taken alone..

            If EM is used to dampen and prevent the LENR effect, this is news to me (and a am most happy to be corrected on this view if I am wrong).

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Frank Acland

            Yes, as far as I am aware, external stimulus has always been used by control the reactions and prevent them from becoming over-energetic, ‘running away’ and melting the E-Cat down.

          • US_Citizen71

            I would have to look back for supporting quotes, but I believe Rossi has several times in the past alluded to the reactor being able to self sustain after being driven to very high output and that power to the coil could prevent that from happening. The image of the red almost white hot steel pipe container HotCat was one time I remember him alluding to this.

            I believe that the PID controllers that many experimentalists are using prevent the reaction from happening due to a dampening effect caused by the random shutdown of the power creating uncomplimentary resonances.

          • Zephir

            It’s simple: the heating increases COP and accelerates LENR up to level it becomes uncontrollable. So you should heat slower and admit lower COP for the sake of stability of reaction,

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Of course! – I feel stupid not realzing this! Thanks for pointing out the MOST simple issue. I mean, when the LENR reaction starts you turn off the heating element and let it slow down until it needs another kick. You simply keep the heat on – it will runaway and melt if you don’t turn things off. I was thrown off by the mention of EM etc. – how silly of me!

            Thanks kindly for point out what is so dead obvious.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Warthog

            “Right, but the external stimulation to my knowledge was
            NEVER used to dampen the LENR effect, but only enhance it.”

            Correct…..but “if” the resonance idea is correct, I would think it would be possible using the same approach as in sound-damping headphones by feeding in an em pulse train properly tuned. If true, it should yield an exquisite method for control of the reaction. Feed one sort of pulse in to stimulate, and a different pulse to dampen runaway conditions.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure, it could be possible – that’s not the CONEXT here.

            So perhaps EM could be used, but it NEVER been used
            before in the past in any LENR device I am aware of to STOP the LENR effect. We not speculation here, someone flat out stated that EM is being used to dampen the effect to slow down LENR.

            As Zephi point out even a drunken rodeo clown should realize
            that Rossi allowed the reactor to “run away” by simply keeping the driver (the heater) on as the LENR effect starts. Normally then one turns off the heater else LENR will cause the temperature to CONTINUE to increase.

            The error here is that someone suggested that EM was used to
            slow down LENR effect – Rossi has NEVER suggested this. Using EM to slow down LENR was a complete new bit of information that NONE of us here have EVER seen or heard about. And new information about Rossi’s reactor is ALWAYS VERY
            interesting. So you mean new information about LENR that we not see in 30+ years is being talked about here? Wow!!!!! So I pressed for more information and realized this was a wild goose chase.

            So introduction of EM into the account of Rossi allowing
            the reactor to run-away and melt down was incorrect, and complete out of context. Not the case, and no use of EM to slow down Rossi’s reactor occurred.

            Zephir explain of what (how) Rossi allowed this runaway
            is so stupid and simple and is of course what Rossi did here. (so I am embarrassed I did not realize this).

            Most interesting however is the significant release of
            Gamma radiation. The Airbus patient also mentioned this gamma radiation issue. In the Airbus patent, they mention that if the reaction goes beyond a certain point and strength, then significant amounts of gamma radiation occurs (a big story, as it suggests that Airbus has built working reactors else how would they know this?).

            And this issue of large releases of gamma radiation from
            a LENR device could be a HUGE stumbling block for regulators (governments) to allow LENR devices at the consumer level. I suspect this ONE big reason why few know of this Rossi account in which gamma radiation was released in a significant amounts.

            This in effect suggest that not only can LENR be dangerous, it also suggest that a nuclear device with significant risk could be built from such LENR devices by simply allowing the device to “run away”.

            Ad this opens up the doors for people to by intention modify such devices to go critical – in effect this becomes a dangerous nuclear weapon.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Warthog

            1) My comment had zero to do with Rossi, but with the Swedes published paper, and the idea of resonance frequencies.

            2) Since Rossi powers his heaters with AC, there is ALWAYS EM present. But with the possible exceptions of Godes and maybe SPAWAR, almost no work has been done on investigating the effects.

            3) The release of gamma radiation fits my notion of multiple possible reaction pathways (and has been mentioned regarding Rossi’s reactors since day one).

            4) I think it unnecessary to get into the whole FUD notion of “making a bomb” in the sense of an actual nuclear weapon. Can there be explosions….obviously yes, but I doubt that the rate of increase of output of a “runaway” is fast enough to release “kiloton-range” amounts of energy before the device self-destructs (and yes, this “is” an explosion, but of a much lesser regime that a nuclear device).

          • Albert D. Kallal

            No problem on your commands not being in regards to Rossi
            (but that was the context of this discussion).

            I agree with the FUD point. However, anything you deal with non-chemicalenergy and are talking about nuclear, then we are in a different ball game.

            Remember, P&F accident is what tipped them off to LENR in the first place. A small chunk of loaded metal melted though a steel lab table and about 1 foot into a cement floor. This is quite beyond what a chemical reaction with such a small mass can achieve. And now we have accounts from Rossi (and Airbus) of significant
            amounts of Gamma can be released from such devices).

            LENR may well provide a means to have a loaded meatal lattice
            go critical – especially if that is ones intention.

            While I think LENR technology is likely the safest form
            of energy we have, it does suggest like any great technology, the uses go beyond just providing heat for your home.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Axil Axil

          The detector could have been detecting muons.

      • Warthog

        I think this statistically unlikely. “Some” of the neutrons pretty much must get out.

        And I think Frank’s quote from Mats Lewans books (below) point to the “multiple pathways” idea. During normal, pseudo-steady-state operation, few or no neutrons produced. During “runaway” conditions a “many more neutrons” reaction path becomes prevalent.

    • Josh G

      I had the same thought. I think Godes calls them Q-wave pulses. Also don’t forget that Sidney Kimmel paid for the Israeli firm Energetics to set up shop at the University of Missouri to investigate the effect of Irving Dardik’s “Superwaves” on LENR. If they’ve had any success, it’s possible that they operate through this mechanism. It would also explain the supposed importance of electormagnetic radation in LENR that many researchers/tinkerers have found.

  • Stephen

    This idea along with Carl-Oscar Gullström’s paper earlier this week look interesting I wonder if these processes work together?

    I must say the Swedes are proving to be quite smart. I’m sure Matt’s would agree.

    It’s an interesting week… still 2 days or so to go.

  • Stephen

    This idea along with Carl-Oscar Gullström’s paper earlier this week look interesting I wonder if these processes work together?

    I must say the Swedes are proving to be quite smart. I’m sure Matt’s would agree.

    It’s an interesting week… still 2 days or so to go.

  • Gerrit

    And Bill Gates is still looking for an Energy Miracle.

    • Bob Greenyer

      … that he can own indefinitely

      • JohnOman

        I would like to think that Bill no longer feels a need or desire to control more technology to his own advantage and his interest is altruistic.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I hope so too.

          Bill Gates was until recently Microsofts largest individual shareholder, he is still 4th largest of all shareholders.

          When MS ran out of any useful ideas to bring any real value to their office apps and OS, to milk their customers – they first tried to make it look radically different from free alternatives by introducing, for instance, the ribbon bar and windows 8 (fail) – which crippled productivity across the globe, after that they went to subscription – meaning you no longer own the software and have to pay a corporate tax to continue to use it.

          • Omega Z

            As Jarea says. Bill is still Bill…
            Philanthropy is philanthropy. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation donates to causes such as clean water projects, medical supply’s that are distributed through the various organizations supported or run by him & other philanthropists.

            Bill’s investment in TeraPower & other energy ventures is money from his personal account. There is Nothing Philanthropic about it. He is investing in these things with the intent to make money.

            The B&M Gates foundation has about 35 Billion$ in assets. Bill’s personal asset’s are about 80 Billion$ +/- 10 depending on the stock market.

            I personally have no issue’s with someone getting rich or even filthy rich. What I consider is how they got rich, Thus I have a nasty opinion of people such as Bill Gates & Steve Jobs.

            I do however give Steve credit for at least admitting he never saw another’s Idea he wasn’t beyond stealing. The animosity between Jobs & Gates was that Gates wouldn’t fess up to this fact.

            The Story of Microsoft is not quite as portrayed in the movies. History rewritten & elements omitted. A Microsoft where Bill Gates was not the Master but just a mediocre programer in the group. A Microsoft that was disbanded & parceled out. Bill Gates & a couple others bought the rights to Microsoft Basic, the Microsoft name & a bare-bones DOS. Of course, when you’re worth Billion$ you can write the story anyway you like.

        • Jarea

          I will bet that he is still Bill. i mean, i think he needs the power and control. if you reached where he is, then it is not because you let others decide. Probably, that control attitude and luck is more important that your own technical capabilities to become billionaire.
          Don´t misunderstand his social and help investments as lack of desire. They are still driven by control and power. In that case, to change and control the world for the better. (his own view of a better world)
          I think he does very good things but again he is not giving away his millions for nothing, they have a purpose.

      • Sean

        Bill Gates, if he gets his hands on LENR will be offering an UPGRADE from Quantum tunnelling to the latest Ponderomotive Wave or anything else that comes along. Ooops your Ecat software has run out. Too bad. Send money.

  • Gerrit

    And Bill Gates is still looking for an Energy Miracle.

    • Bob Greenyer

      … that he can own indefinitely

      • I would like to think that Bill no longer feels a need or desire to control more technology to his own advantage and his interest is altruistic.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I hope so too.

          Bill Gates was until recently Microsofts largest individual shareholder, he is still 4th largest of all shareholders.

          When MS ran out of any useful ideas to bring any real value to their office apps and OS, to milk their customers – they first tried to make it look radically different from free alternatives by introducing, for instance, the ribbon bar and windows 8 (fail) – which crippled productivity across the globe, after that they went to subscription – meaning you no longer own the software and have to pay a corporate tax to continue to use it.

          • Omega Z

            As Jarea says. Bill is still Bill…
            Philanthropy is philanthropy. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation donates to causes such as clean water projects, medical supply’s that are distributed through the various organizations supported or run by him & other philanthropists.

            Bill’s investment in TeraPower & other energy ventures is money from his personal account. There is Nothing Philanthropic about it. He is investing in these things with the intent to make money.

            The B&M Gates foundation has about 35 Billion$ in assets. Bill’s personal asset’s are about 80 Billion$ +/- 10 depending on the stock market.

            I personally have no issue’s with someone getting rich or even filthy rich. What I consider is how they got rich, Thus I have a nasty opinion of people such as Bill Gates & Steve Jobs.

            I do however give Steve credit for at least admitting he never saw another’s Idea he wasn’t beyond stealing. The animosity between Jobs & Gates was that Gates wouldn’t fess up to this fact.

            The Story of Microsoft is not quite as portrayed in the movies. History rewritten & elements omitted. A Microsoft where Bill Gates was not the Master but just a mediocre programer in the group. A Microsoft that was disbanded & parceled out. Bill Gates & a couple others bought the rights to Microsoft Basic, the Microsoft name & a bare-bones DOS. Of course, when you’re worth Billion$ you can write the story anyway you like.

          • bachcole

            “Philanthropy is philanthropy.” No it isn’t. In 2007 just before the crash, Gates invested $100 million into a algae fuel oil company. $100,000,000!!! That is a lot of bread. He basically lost it all. It was like he threw it away. His wisdom was a little short of his funds on that one.

            Then there is the perspective of the motivation. Why does one give?

            There are all kinds of dimensions to philanthropy. Philanthropy is an art and a science, and not all philanthropists are skilled in the art and science of philanthropy.

        • Jarea

          I will bet that he is still Bill. i mean, i think he needs the power and control. if you reached where he is, then it is not because you let others decide. Probably, that control attitude and luck is more important that your own technical capabilities to become billionaire.
          Don´t misunderstand his social and help investments as lack of desire. They are still driven by control and power. In that case, to change and control the world for the better. (his own view of a better world)
          I think he does very good things but again he is not giving away his millions for nothing, they have a purpose.

      • Sean

        Bill Gates, if he gets his hands on LENR will be offering an UPGRADE from Quantum tunnelling to the latest Ponderomotive Wave or anything else that comes along. Ooops your Ecat software has run out. Too bad. Send money.

  • John Schut

    Has Rossi already seen and responded to this promising theoretical explanation of LENR?

  • John Schut

    Has Rossi already seen and responded to this promising theoretical explanation of LENR?

  • Curbina

    This is a very interesting revelation. Mats’s article is full of tidbits that reveal that the interest in LENR is still a scientific risk for the interested, but that also, and mostly thanks to Sven Kullander’s lead, is also gaining momentum in the higher spheres of Sweden science. The fact that this paper was not allowed to even be subject to peer review by Arxiv, let alone by the journal to wich it was submitted in parallel, is very telling. The LENR battle is far from being over, but every meter of advance is a milestone.

  • Curbina

    This is a very interesting revelation. Mats’s article is full of tidbits that reveal that the interest in LENR is still a scientific risk for the interested, but that also, and mostly thanks to Sven Kullander’s lead, is also gaining momentum in the higher spheres of Sweden science. The fact that this paper was not allowed to even be subject to peer review by Arxiv, let alone by the journal to wich it was submitted in parallel, is very telling. The LENR battle is far from being over, but every meter of advance is a milestone.

  • Sanjeev

    The theory seems promising. However neutrons are a problem. Even if this is a new sub class of lenr, and if devices are made using this method, the neutrons would make commercialization difficult.

    • Zack Iszard

      Wrap it with a dense metal. These neutrons are slow, and if there is enough non-reacting material outside the reactor all should be well.

      • Slad

        Rossi reckons his shipping container weighs 10T.

        Which seems a lot for just water and insulation.

  • Sanjeev

    The theory seems promising. However neutrons are a problem. Even if this is a new sub class of lenr, and if devices are made using this method, the neutrons would make commercialization difficult.

    • Zack Iszard

      Wrap it with a dense metal. These neutrons are slow, and if there is enough non-reacting material outside the reactor all should be well.

      • Slad

        Rossi reckons his shipping container weighs 10T.

        Which seems a lot for whats basically just water and insulation.

  • Mike Henderson

    Seems easy to test: shine terahertz light on lithium and see if it emits neutrons. Will the TSA let me wear a neutron detector while I am being scanned at the airport? Far infrared lasers are going to become quite popular.

  • Mike Henderson

    Seems easy to test: shine terahertz light on lithium and see if it emits neutrons. Will the TSA let me wear a neutron detector while I am being scanned at the airport? Far infrared lasers are going to become quite popular.

  • Gerrit

    searching for “Ponderomotive Forces LENR” yields a few hits on LENR experiments with lasers (Hora, Miley, Roussetski, Lipson)

    So the idea is not entirely new to LENR.

  • Gerrit

    searching for “Ponderomotive Forces LENR” yields a few hits on LENR experiments with lasers (Hora, Miley, Roussetski, Lipson)

    So the idea is not entirely new to LENR.

  • Gerrit

    interestingly Mats writes that a former ABB R&D Vice President informed him about this research. Rossi yesterday tells us his “robotic factory” is using ABB robots.

    Might be just a coincidence.

  • Gerrit

    interestingly Mats writes that a former ABB R&D Vice President informed him about this research. Rossi yesterday tells us his “robotic factory” is using ABB robots.

    Might be just a coincidence.

  • Jarea

    “The forces are not intuitively predictable, and a bit strange, for example making hot bodies attract matter,” Lundin says.

    Are they saying that they can generate a gravitational force? How is that possible?

    I also noticed that the words “resonance” and “harmonic” are very often in the LENR papers…

    Another part of the text says:
    “Lidgren, M Sc in Physics Engineering, and co-founder of the oil exploration company Rex International Holding, started to investigate the phenomenon when he discovered strange characteristics of satellite orbits while analysing satellite altimeter surveys to detect potential hydrocarbon reservoirs.”

    This is the way EMDRIVE effect was also found. Is LENR and EMDrive somehow related?

  • Jarea

    “The forces are not intuitively predictable, and a bit strange, for example making hot bodies attract matter,” Lundin says.

    Are they saying that they can generate a gravitational force? How is that possible?. or Did they mean “LENR hot bodies will be attracted due to electromagnetic forces”?

    I also noticed that the words “resonance” and “harmonic” are very often in the LENR papers…

    Another part of the text says:
    “Lidgren, M Sc in Physics Engineering, and co-founder of the oil exploration company Rex International Holding, started to investigate the phenomenon when he discovered strange characteristics of satellite orbits while analysing satellite altimeter surveys to detect potential hydrocarbon reservoirs.”

    This is the way EMDRIVE effect was found too. Is LENR and EMDrive somehow related?

  • Frank Acland

    AR on this paper: “It is very interesting. I love his citation of the immense Prof. Sven Kullander, whi continues to look at our working 1 MW plant from the plate we dedicated to him. It is a paper to be studied with attention.”

    • Jarea

      This paper contradicts his theory. Isn´t it?
      If i understood well Rossi says that the LENR fusion is produced by quantum tunneling with protons overcoming the coulomb barrier in the nucleus.
      This papers says, we shake the deuterium atoms to obtain some free neutrons (some energy to the system is added) and these neutrons will easily fuse with other heavier elements (because they don´t have charge) releasing energy.

      The trick is to extract with less energy the neutrons from deuterium so that we have more energy when they fuse again to heavier elements.
      I still don´t understand why do you consume less energy to extract the neutrons than you receive from fusing again with heavier elements.
      Can somebody explain?

  • John Schut

    So instead of ‘reaching for the sun’, we only have to ‘reach for the core of the earth’… 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      Much more grounded.

  • John Schut

    So instead of ‘reaching for the sun’, we only have to ‘reach for the core of the earth’… 🙂

    • Bob Greenyer

      Much more grounded.

      • Gerald

        And in the process of understanding LErn better maybe the Lern happening in the earth and before earthquake can help to make better predictions. In 25 years when I retire from work the world could be very different from now. Great to see what’s happening right now. Landing on astroids, planning to go to mars. That kind of thing I mean, not how we live and go along e together these times..

  • georgehants

    Pluto is alive—but where is the heat coming from?
    http://news.sciencemag.org/space/2015/07/pluto-alive-where-heat-coming

  • georgehants

    Pluto is alive—but where is the heat coming from?
    http://news.sciencemag.org/space/2015/07/pluto-alive-where-heat-coming

  • Brokeeper

    Hey, where’s our royalties? 🙂

    From “Magnetic Control of LENR (Axil Axil)”
    Posted on March 30, 2015 by Frank Acland • 24 Comments

    Brokeeper > Axil Axil • 6 months ago

    Axil Axil, I think the shape of the wave could resemble a
    square wave composed of much hydrogen harmonic frequencies. It may be adaptive
    to changing high temperatures, hydrogen gas pressures and varying acoustical
    effects from the particle’s nano crevasse and tubule sizes.

    Followed later by:

    Axil Axil > Thomas Clarke • 6 months ago

    On page 6 of the Lagano report, a square wave waveform
    more or less is shown for the input power feed to the heater. Why is Rossi
    doing this? I know you think that Rossi is a fraud, but why in the world would
    Rossi design obscure circuity to produce such a complicated wave form and then
    keep it a secret?

  • Brokeeper

    Hey, where’s our royalties? 🙂

    From “Magnetic Control of LENR (Axil Axil)”
    Posted on March 30, 2015 by Frank Acland • 24 Comments
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/03/30/magnetic-control-of-lenr-axil-axil/

    Brokeeper > Axil Axil • 6 months ago

    Axil Axil, I think the shape of the wave could resemble a
    square wave composed of much hydrogen harmonic frequencies. It may be adaptive
    to changing high temperatures, hydrogen gas pressures and varying acoustical
    effects from the particle’s nano crevasse and tubule sizes.

    Followed later by:

    Axil Axil > Thomas Clarke • 6 months ago

    On page 6 of the Lagano report, a square wave waveform
    more or less is shown for the input power feed to the heater. Why is Rossi
    doing this? I know you think that Rossi is a fraud, but why in the world would
    Rossi design obscure circuity to produce such a complicated wave form and then
    keep it a secret?

  • Hans Mjøllner

    The corncert model is proper:Wherein many instruments can make a harmony that is just the
    sum of single sounds:resonances can generate virtual entities whose energy is higher than the
    sum of the energy of the singles.
    The Mouse has a driving license,of course !

    AR. june 5th 2015 at 9:20 PM

  • Kristian

    Does anyone have an opinion if/how this theory relates to the research notes based on Louis DeChiaros work (http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/06/louis-dechario-of-us-naval-sea-systems-command-navsea-on-replicating-pons-and-fleischmann/) ?

    • Bob Greenyer

      Very different system, outcome.

  • bachcole

    Can we reduce this to 3 sentences for the less brilliant people here? Some drawings would help.

    • They use equations mainly from the field of plasma physics to show that a (kind of obscure) force spikes in magnitude under certain electromagnetic inputs and provides enough energy to pry a neutron out of a Lithium or deuterium atom.

      They work up the math and run a simulation and it looks just like E-Cat behavior though they don’t back it up with the results of any of their own basic experimentation (though that’s in the works).

      If they are right they have the keys to the kingdom and report that other engineering choices can yield COPs of up to 1000.

      • bachcole

        Three sentences. Thank you very much. The first sentence needs a chart and some pictures. (:->) But I get it.

  • Some observations about their paper:

    * Their simulation agrees quite well with E-Cat performance. That could be an artifact though of what amounts to what is fundamentally an attempt to explain the E-Cat. Critics will say too that Lugano is flawed though and they have a point.

    * They do not report any independent experimental results, though they anecdotally say they have run an experiment that supports their theory. Seems a bit premature. They should have waited for at least basic confirmation with results they could publish.

    * There are a lot of assumptions about applying equations good for different domains to the conditions believed to be present in the E-Cat. They don’t seem off base but buyer beware.

    * I get the argument about how the Gradient force introduces enough energy through resonance to cause neutron spallation (ejection of neutrons). But the actual mechanism remains unclear to me. Maybe they said or maybe I missed it or maybe it’s supposed to be obvious in a quantum if-the energy-is-there-then-certain-things-can-happen sort of way. But accelerating the whole nucleus is not the same as ripping a nucleus apart. Do the resulting high energy coillisions cause spallation?

    All in all I like this theory a lot because it fits my notion of the main action being shaking loose of neutrons (somehow due to solid resonance) and subsequent gobbling of them by the hungriest hippo (Ni-64). But short on proof at the moment.

  • Some observations about their paper:

    * Their simulation agrees quite well with E-Cat performance. That could be an artifact though of what amounts to what is fundamentally an attempt to explain the E-Cat. Critics will say too that Lugano is flawed though and they have a point.

    * They do not report any independent experimental results, though they anecdotally say they have run an experiment that supports their theory. Seems a bit premature. They should have waited for at least basic confirmation with results they could publish.

    * There are a lot of assumptions about applying equations good for different domains to the conditions believed to be present in the E-Cat. They don’t seem off base but buyer beware.

    * I get the argument about how the Gradient force introduces enough energy through resonance to cause neutron spallation (ejection of neutrons). But the actual mechanism remains unclear to me. Maybe they said or maybe I missed it or maybe it’s supposed to be obvious in a quantum if-the energy-is-there-then-certain-things-can-happen sort of way. But accelerating the whole nucleus is not the same as ripping a nucleus apart. Do the resulting high energy coillisions cause spallation?

    All in all I like this theory a lot because it fits my notion of the main action being shaking loose of neutrons (somehow due to resonance) and subsequent gobbling of them by the hungriest hippo (Ni-62). But short on proof at the moment.

  • They use equations mainly from the field of plasma physics to show that a (kind of obscure) force spikes in magnitude under certain electromagnetic inputs and provides enough energy to pry a neutron out of a Lithium or deuterium atom.

    They work up the math and run a simulation and it looks just like E-Cat behavior though they don’t back it up with the results of any of their own basic experimentation (though that’s in the works).

    If they are right they have the keys to the kingdom and report that other engineering choices can yield COPs of up to 1000.

    • Axil Axil

      Ed Storms rightly criticizes charge as a causative factor in LENR because of the Pauli exclusion principle. A charged field that is strong enough to be effective cannot be created because electrons repel each other. The LENR causation force must be produced by a boson. This is where the polariton comes in. The polariton is an electron turned into of boson. Because they don’t repel each other, bosons could produce an EMF force of any strength. It is magnetism not charge where LENR causation comes from.

      • GreenWin

        This theory utilizes resonance as a causative factor in “shaking free” neutrons. In the macro-world of mechanical resonance we see how powerful a force this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xE_nT3QySo

        • Zephir

          It is quite cool that one of the members of the Nobel prize committee is writing a LENR paper. But I don’t understand how the neutrons are supposed to get separated from an atom. At first, the ponderomotive Miller force acts on charged particles. This force is zero for a neutron as it is not charged. I suppose the shaking out of neutrons from the atom means to act against the strong nuclear force. How comes there is no dependency on the strong nuclear force described in the paper? Also LENR-experiments produce heat but rarely neutrons or gammas. Therefore the proposed mechanism could not be dominating in these experiments.

          • Axil Axil

            I am disappointed that LENR theories lack attention to detail. A theorists picks some obscure effect to explain some limited aspect of LENR. with all the other one million details are not considered.

            The Reminds me of L&W theory’s use of the Shukla & Eliasson effect. L&W has since gone over to SPP theory.

            “3. Lattice Energy LLC Shukla & Eliasson’s new mechanism provides an attractive force Background and objectives of this presentation Main Lattice reference to examine is a 92-slide August 23, 2012 PowerPoint presentation: “Speculation: evanescent exotic superconductivity (some form of HTSC) in heavy-electron patches?” http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-hightemperature-superconductivity-in-patchesaug-23-2012

          • Zephir

            /*A theorists picks some obscure effect to explain some limited aspect of
            LENR. with all the other one million details not considered.*/

            Yes, it’s exactly my perception too. But IMO this situation in research corresponds the situation in LENR, which is not a single-mechanism process and the actual nuclear reactions may be different from system to system (i.e. Palladium/H, Nickel/H, Li/D etc.)

            https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/2ip31z/ecat_report_released_not_a_conventional_source_of/cl86pp6

          • Axil Axil

            The fundamental causation of LENR must meet a global set of connected conditions. These common characteristics point to a fundamental single caution of the LENR reaction.

            These common and universal conditions include the thermalization of gamma radiation, the rapid to instantaneous stabilization of radioactive isotopes, lack of neutron emissions, and the wide variation of seemingly random transmutation results which includes fusion of light elements into heavier elements and fission of heavy elements into lighter ones, remote reaction at a distance from the location of the LENR reaction(aka NAE), and instantaneous cluster fusion involving huge numbers of sub-reactions that occur instantly and collectively.

            Even though the LENR reaction oftentimes occurs concurrent with the presence of hydrogen isotopes, hydrogen is not required as a fundamental cause of the reaction as shown in the experiments done at Proton 21 where a ball of copper is blasted with a high powered arc discharge, and the carbon dust experiments performed using microwaves conducted by George Egely, the new editor of infinite magazine. In the Proton 21 experiments, the nano-particles involved are copper based and in the Egely case the nano-particles are based on carbon. In the Papp reaction. The nano particles are based on chlorine and noble gases.

          • RLittle

            This mechanism of this ponderomotive force is based on the prior Little Effect (2000)
            and magnetic mechanism of Reginald B Little.

            I note from several prior papers (2000-2007) my prior similar concept.

            In 2006, RBL published “Magnetocatalytic Adiabatic Spin Torque Orbital
            Transformations for Novel Chemical and Catalytic Reaction Dynamics: The Little
            Effect”.

            Therein such use of heat and pressure to excite virtual or continuum states in the metal hydrides in external strong magnetic field were proposed to cause antisymmetry of the step wise excitations for building up energy to excite the core electrons toward outer shells and drive protons and hydrides inward deep into the core shells and into the nucleus and to build up core lattice energies to nuclear energies involving such core virtual states and such anharmonic
            oscillations. The virtual or continuum states are of classical anharmonic nature and classical and s orbtials rather more easily accommodate such. This data of Lundin and Lidgren are very
            exciting. I just note that their recent theory is conceptually identical to the prior of RBL from 2003. I also acquired data exploring my theory in 2003 in strong magnetic fields of over 17 Tesla and iron lattice for some support although limited.

            In over 4 papers between 2003-2008, I noted similar such idea although my presentation was more conceptual theory and mechanism. For example:

            In Magnetocatalytic Adiabatic Spin Torque Orbital Transformations for Novel Chemical and Catalytic Reaction Dynamics: The Little Effect (2005). On Page 8 for this quote the ‘virtual state’ is synonymous with the ‘continuum’ and the thermal energy and phonons excite such virtual states and such phonons in the virtual states are classical vibrations of a continuum and irrhythmic and the same as the stated ponderomotive force!!!

            In 2005 US patent application I explicitly note such core excitations and core virtual states and anharmonic continuum motions accumulating energies of nuclear energetics and coupling to nuclei (target nuclei) and disturbing (shaking) nuclei for novel nuclear reactions. See clause [0078] therein.

            Moreover in “ A Theory of the Relativistic Fermionic Spinrevorbital” a explicit account, introduction and theory of novel continuum and the relativistic nonharmonic (nonquantal) motion is introduced therein and how such leads to novel effects as in pycnonuclear reactions as by exciting hydrogen atoms and hydrogen ions deep into the core lattices of pycnometal catalysts involving both harmonic and anyharmonic continuum vibrations and oscillations for building up energies for bosonic nuclear and fermionic nuclear processes as catalyzed even in other atoms by the consequent high energy core of the metal lattive.

            In 2003 (On the Enhanced Reverse Beta Processes in Graphene-Iron Composite Nanostructures at High Temperatures in Strong Magnetic Field) [http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0705/0705.1909.pdf] , the scenario of such thermal and pressure induced continuum excitations in iron-hydrogen and possibly carbon system in strong magnetic field and magnetization was proposed and measured to simulate the core of the earth and its possible unconventional nuclear processes in the terrestrial core. In this work in 2015 Lundin and Lidgren propose similar such terrestrial nuclear processes.

          • Axil Axil

            The ponderomotive force is based on an oscillating charge. Your theory is magnetic. You have missed the distinction between magnetism and charge.

          • RLittle

            No you have missed the relation between electric and magnetic fields. Take care…

          • Axil Axil

            How so?

        • Axil Axil

          The resonance involved in LENR is called Fano resonance.

          See:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fano_resonance

      • Da Phys

        “The LENR causation force must be produced by a boson.”

        I agree. And this has important implications on the type of theory underlying LENR.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Very different system, outcome.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    From Mats blog on Lundin and Lidgren’s earlier work:
    “What Lundin and Lidgren have investigated and published in 2010 is that the phenomenon has a resonance frequency, specific for each particle or cluster of particles, and that the force increases close to the resonance frequency, being repulsive on the low-frequency side but attractive on the other.”

    This sounds like a recipe for the emdrive to me. If you read their 2010 work they actually measured this effect.

  • Wishful Thinking Energy

    From Mats blog on Lundin and Lidgren’s earlier work:
    “What Lundin and Lidgren have investigated and published in 2010 is that the phenomenon has a resonance frequency, specific for each particle or cluster of particles, and that the force increases close to the resonance frequency, being repulsive on the low-frequency side but attractive on the other.”

    This sounds like a recipe for the emdrive to me. If you read their 2010 work they actually measured this effect.

    • bachcole

      At first I refused to read anything by Wishful Thinking Energy because I was afraid that he was a skeptopath. I have since come to realize that he is instead a reasonable person. (:->)

      • Mats002

        He is Brian Albiston, one of our LENR experimentalist heroes.

        • bachcole

          (:->) I just grew past my label bias.

        • clovis ray

          YEP,

  • Axil Axil

    Ed Storms rightly criticizes charge as a causative factor in LENR because of the Pauli exclusion principle. A charged field that is strong enough to be effective cannot be created because electrons repel each other. The LENR causation force must be produced by a boson. This is where the polariton comes in. The polariton is an electron turned into of boson. Because they don’t repel each other, bosons could produce an EMF force of any strength. It is magnetism not charge where LENR causation comes from.

    • Da Phys

      “The LENR causation force must be produced by a boson.”

      I agree. And this has important implications on the type of theory underlying LENR.

  • Axil Axil

    They don’t explain how heat produces charge and charge produces heat.

    • Mats002

      Light -> Gamma -> Beta -> Alpha

      If you can harvest Beta, then Alpha not happen and we have electricity instead of heat?
      Heat is IR light. This process is self looping = amplifying?

      • Axil Axil

        Did they say this in their paper? They are predicated on neutrons as the fundamental cause.

        • Mats002

          Yes. They make neutrons ‘shake’ in resonance, that is heat, coherent heat.
          The process must start with heat which is IR light or laser light, I see no other option.

  • fact police

    Without considering the plausibility of the ponderomotive forces dislodging neutrons, I find several problems with the theory:

    (1) Like the Widom-Larsen theory promoters, they seem proud to have found a way to avoid the Coulomb barrier, which can be overcome at an appreciable rate by tunneling, at energies on the order of 100 keV. But to avoid the need to find this 100 keV, they introduce processes that require more energy.

    WL introduced electron capture that requires 780 keV. These guys introduce neutron spallation that requires 2.25 MeV for deuterium (not present in ecats), or 7.25 MeV for lithium. So, for Lugano, their substitute mechanism to avoid the Coulomb barrier requires about 100 times more energy.

    ——-

    They say Lugano is a good example of their theory in action, based on the reactions Li-7 –> Li-6 + n, and N-58 + 4n –> Ni-62. But this introduces other problems:

    (2) As with nearly all theories of LENR, they fail to explain the absence of energetic radiation. Neutron capture by those nickel isotopes to form other nickel isotopes are well-known reactions, and they produce gamma rays in the energy range 8 to 11 MeV. But they are not observed in the Lugano experiment. The gamma ray budget does not balance.

    (3) According to the proposed reactions, you need 4 lithiums for every nickel atom. Since the lithium mass is about 1/8 that of nickel, the mass fraction should be about 1/2. And yet analysis of the fuel shows about 1% lithium by mass. The neutron budget does not balance.

    (4) According to the Lugano report, essentially all the nickel is transmuted to Ni-62. That would correspond to about 16 GJ of energy based on the reactions proposed. But they only report about 5 GJ, and corrections to the interpretation suggest half that or less. What happens to the rest of the energy? The energy budget does not balance.

    —————

    So, basically, the theory is not consistent with Lugano, and that’s supposed to be the inspiration for the theory.

    • GreenWin

      Spinach anyone??

  • Axil Axil

    They don’t explain how heat produces charge and charge produces heat.

    • Mats002

      Light -> Gamma -> Beta -> Alpha

      If you can harvest Beta, then Alpha not happen and we have electricity instead of heat?
      Heat is IR light. This process is self looping = amplifying?

      • Axil Axil

        Did they say this in their paper? They are predicated on neutrons as the fundamental cause.

        • Mats002

          Yes. They make neutrons ‘shake’ in resonance, that is heat, coherent heat.
          The process must start with heat which is IR light or laser light, I see no other option.

  • bachcole

    “essentially no new physics but a little-known physical effect describing
    matter’s interaction with electromagnetic fields — ponderomotive Miller
    forces — would explain energy release and isotopic changes in LENR.”

    Little known only because society was so impressed by the power of the atomic bomb that we neglected any other effects. And once the nuclear community was in place, collecting paychecks and praise, there was no way to get them to look at any other effect, until Brother Andrea came along.

  • So…could we take these neutrons, combine them with protons, and then throw some electrons in orbit around them? If we could do that, then we might be able to make elements. This could be the beginning of replicator machines, like in Star Trek. I just hope that our replicator machines work better than those in Star Trek:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD4EVXkfe0w

    • Ryan

      I’m guessing it would be possible eventually but currently we’re still working on nanotech (working at a scale where we could manipulate atoms individually) and doing things on a scale where we’re building up materials directly would require femtotech (working with nuclear level particles such as protons, electrons and neutrons) which thus far would at best be theoretical. I figure we’ll get there, and further, but in what time frame is the question.

    • Omega Z

      “replicator machines” would probably only be beneficial in a Star Trek scenario where you don’t know exactly what you’ll need for the trip and have limited carry capacity. Energy equal to Matter, vice versa plus the energy consumed for the process. Not necessarily a good thing otherwise.

      Teleporting will be interesting.
      Are they disassembling you & reassembling you- OR
      Are they destroying you & merely creating a copy.

  • GreenWin

    This theory utilizes resonance as a causative factor in “shaking free” neutrons. In the macro-world of mechanical resonance we see how powerful a force this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xE_nT3QySo

    • Zephir

      It is quite cool that one of the members of the Nobel prize committee is writing a LENR paper. But I don’t understand how the neutrons are supposed to get separated from an atom. At first, the ponderomotive Miller force acts on charged particles. This force is zero for a neutron as it is not charged. I suppose the shaking out of neutrons from the atom means to act against the strong nuclear force. How comes there is no dependency on the strong nuclear force described in the paper? Also LENR-experiments produce heat but rarely neutrons or gammas. Therefore the proposed mechanism could not be dominating in these experiments.

      • Axil Axil

        I am disappointed that LENR theories lack attention to detail. A theorists picks some obscure effect to explain some limited aspect of LENR. with all the other one million details not considered.

        This Reminds me of L&W theory’s use of the Shukla & Eliasson effect. L&W has since gone over to SPP theory.

        “3. Lattice Energy LLC Shukla & Eliasson’s new mechanism provides an attractive force Background and objectives of this presentation Main Lattice reference to examine is a 92-slide August 23, 2012 PowerPoint presentation: “Speculation: evanescent exotic superconductivity (some form of HTSC) in heavy-electron patches?” http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-hightemperature-superconductivity-in-patchesaug-23-2012

        • Zephir

          /*A theorists picks some obscure effect to explain some limited aspect of
          LENR. with all the other one million details not considered.*/

          Yes, it’s exactly my perception too. But IMO this situation in research corresponds the situation in LENR, which is not a single-mechanism process and the actual nuclear reactions may be different from system to system (i.e. Palladium/H, Nickel/H, Li/D etc.)

          https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/2ip31z/ecat_report_released_not_a_conventional_source_of/cl86pp6

          • Axil Axil

            The fundamental causation of LENR must meet a global set of connected conditions. These common characteristics point to a fundamental single causation of the LENR reaction.

            These common and universal conditions include the thermalization of gamma radiation, the rapid to instantaneous stabilization of radioactive isotopes, lack of neutron emissions, and the wide variation of seemingly random transmutation results which includes fusion of light elements into heavier elements and fission of heavy elements into lighter ones, remote reaction at a distance from the location of the LENR reaction(aka NAE), and instantaneous cluster fusion involving huge numbers of sub-reactions that occur instantly and collectively.

            Even though the LENR reaction oftentimes occurs concurrent with the presence of hydrogen isotopes, hydrogen is not required as a fundamental cause of the reaction as shown in the experiments done at Proton 21 where a ball of copper is blasted with a high powered arc discharge, and the carbon dust experiments performed using microwaves conducted by George Egely, the new editor of infinite magazine. In the Proton 21 experiments, the nano-particles involved are copper based and in the Egely case the nano-particles are based on carbon. In the Papp reaction. The nano particles are based on chlorine and noble gases.

    • Axil Axil

      The resonance involved in LENR is called Fano resonance.

      See:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fano_resonance

  • Mats002

    He is Brian Albiston, one of our LENR exeperimentalist heroes.

    • bachcole

      (:->) I just grew past my label bias.

    • clovis ray

      YEP,

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “…but deuterium-nickel fuel has also been used. …” Are they referring to George Miley?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “…but deuterium-nickel fuel has also been used. …” Are they referring to George Miley?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Would the neutron have to completely detach or is there an Oppenheimer-Phillips process that could come into play here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheimer%E2%80%93Phillips_process
    (Pardon me if this is inferred. I haven’t read it carefully yet.)

  • deleo77

    Just curious (and confused) if this relates to Geneste (the chief scientist of Airbus), when he said a major theoretical breakthrough would be announced at their workshop. Is this it? I thought he would be the person behind it. He opened the workshop this morning. I wonder what he said?

    http://workshop.wonderevents.fr/page11/index.php

    • Axil Axil

      see here:

      http://www.darksideofgravity.com/DG_neutrinos.pdf

      he will talk about what I talk about, but I have taken the subject to the cutting edge of science.

      • deleo77

        Ok, well it looks like he Geneste had a couple of talks today and one called “LENR from experiment to theory” tomorrow. Lundin also speaks tomorrow in the morning, and I imagine he will present this paper with some Q&A after. Perhaps the most interesting talk of the day will be from JP Biberian from the University of Marseilles. He has been working on Parkhomov replication attempts and may have some new info to share. Is there anyone at this workshop who can share what they are hearing?

        • GreenWin

          Also on Friday October 16th. Metallurgy expert, Jacques Ruer, Deputy Director of Technology with oil and gas giant Saipem SA, will discuss, “Craters and hot spots explained by Erzions or exotic particles? | Analysis of the potential behavior of the [Rossi] energy catalyzer in the patent US 9115913 B.”

          Yet another big oilco openly studying E-Cat nanoparticle fuel and ways it achieves LENR. No wonder Exxon/Mobile stock has been downgraded to “non-perform.”
          http://www.iscmns.org/work11/

      • Jarea

        But that paper you have linked says it can explain superluminic neutrinos and that was showed as not correct. Are you saying that there is still superluminic neutrinos? Or does this theory have wrong predictions?

        • Axil Axil

          Geneste said that, not me. I wonder if he has changed his mind on that issue? His version of the theory might produce wrong predictions, my version will not produce invalid results.

      • Will this paper be published in a peer reviewed journal? Or is it just a “hobby” work?

        • georgehants

          Science
          corrupted by the cult of profit: Fabrication, incompetence, grant
          swindling, fraud, dysfunction, tricks and lies are epidemic.
          “The thing that should scare people is that so many of these important
          published studies turn out to be wrong when they’re investigated
          further.” Peer review, in which a paper is checked out by eminent
          scientists before publication, isn’t a safeguard.
          https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkFuturology/comments/1tu9xp/science_corrupted_by_the_cult_of_profit/

        • Omega Z

          Barty- Excerpt from Mats blog

          Lundin and Lidgren submitted their paper to the open preprint website Arxiv.org and to the peer-reviewed journal Plasma Physics and Controlled Fusion, PPCF, but both declined to even let reviewers have a look at it, the latter arguing “that the content of the article is not within the scope of the journal”. Arxiv.org even blocked Lundin from submitting further papers during July and August.

    • Omega Z

      Apparently Yes-relates to Geneste (the chief scientist of Airbus)
      Excerpt from Mats blog

      This is what Rickard Lundin and Hans Lidgren, two top level Swedish scientists, claim, describing their theory in a paper called Nuclear Spallation and Neutron Capture Induced by Ponderomotive Wave Forcing (full length paper here) that will be presented on Friday, October 16, at the 11th International Workshop on Anomalies in
      Hydrogen Loaded Metals, hosted by Airbus in Toulouse, France.

  • deleo77

    Just curious (and confused) if this relates to Geneste (the chief scientist of Airbus), when he said a major theoretical breakthrough would be announced at their workshop. Is this it? I thought he would be the person behind it. He opened the workshop this morning. I wonder what he said?

    http://workshop.wonderevents.fr/page11/index.php

    • Axil Axil

      see here:

      http://www.darksideofgravity.com/DG_neutrinos.pdf

      he will talk about what I talk about, but I have taken the subject to the cutting edge of science.

      • deleo77

        Ok, well it looks like he Geneste had a couple of talks today and one called “LENR from experiment to theory” tomorrow. Lundin also speaks tomorrow in the morning, and I imagine he will present this paper with some Q&A after. Perhaps the most interesting talk of the day will be from JP Biberian from the University of Marseilles. He has been working on Parkhomov replication attempts and may have some new info to share. Is there anyone at this workshop who can share what they are hearing?

        • GreenWin

          Also on Friday October 16th. Metallurgy expert, Jacques Ruer, Deputy Director of Technology with oil and gas giant Saipem SA, will discuss, “Craters and hot spots explained by Erzions or exotic particles? | Analysis of the potential behavior of the [Rossi] energy catalyzer in the patent US 9115913 B.”

          Yet another big oilco openly studying E-Cat nanoparticle fuel and ways it achieves LENR. No wonder Exxon/Mobile stock has been downgraded to “non-perform.”
          http://www.iscmns.org/work11/

      • Jarea

        But that paper you have linked says it can explain superluminic neutrinos and that was showed as not correct. Are you saying that there is still superluminic neutrinos? Or does this theory have wrong predictions?

        • Axil Axil

          Geneste said that, not me. I wonder if he has changed his mind on that issue? His version of the theory might produce wrong predictions, my version will not produce invalid results.

    • Omega Z

      Apparently Yes-relates to Geneste (the chief scientist of Airbus)
      Excerpt from Mats blog

      This is what Rickard Lundin and Hans Lidgren, two top level Swedish scientists, claim, describing their theory in a paper called Nuclear Spallation and Neutron Capture Induced by Ponderomotive Wave Forcing (full length paper here) that will be presented on Friday, October 16, at the 11th International Workshop on Anomalies in
      Hydrogen Loaded Metals, hosted by Airbus in Toulouse, France.

  • RLittle

    This mechanism of this ponderomotive force is based on the prior Little Effect (2000)
    and magnetic mechanism of Reginald B Little.

    I note from several prior papers (2000-2007) my prior similar concept.

    In 2006, RBL published “Magnetocatalytic Adiabatic Spin Torque Orbital
    Transformations for Novel Chemical and Catalytic Reaction Dynamics: The Little
    Effect”.

    Therein such use of heat and pressure to excite virtual or continuum states in the metal hydrides in external strong magnetic field were proposed to cause antisymmetry of the step wise excitations for building up energy to excite the core electrons toward outer shells and drive protons and hydrides inward deep into the core shells and into the nucleus and to build up core lattice energies to nuclear energies involving such core virtual states and such anharmonic
    oscillations. The virtual or continuum states are of classical anharmonic nature and classical and s orbtials rather more easily accommodate such. This data of Lundin and Lidgren are very
    exciting. I just note that their recent theory is conceptually identical to the prior of RBL from 2003. I also acquired data exploring my theory in 2003 in strong magnetic fields of over 17 Tesla and iron lattice for some support although limited.

    In over 4 papers between 2003-2008, I noted similar such idea although my presentation was more conceptual theory and mechanism. For example:

    In Magnetocatalytic Adiabatic Spin Torque Orbital Transformations for Novel Chemical and Catalytic Reaction Dynamics: The Little Effect (2005). On Page 8 for this quote the ‘virtual state’ is synonymous with the ‘continuum’ and the thermal energy and phonons excite such virtual states and such phonons in the virtual states are classical vibrations of a continuum and irrhythmic and the same as the stated ponderomotive force!!!

    In 2005 US patent application I explicitly note such core excitations and core virtual states and anharmonic continuum motions accumulating energies of nuclear energetics and coupling to nuclei (target nuclei) and disturbing (shaking) nuclei for novel nuclear reactions. See clause [0078] therein.

    Moreover in “ A Theory of the Relativistic Fermionic Spinrevorbital” a explicit account, introduction and theory of novel continuum and the relativistic nonharmonic (nonquantal) motion is introduced therein and how such leads to novel effects as in pycnonuclear reactions as by exciting hydrogen atoms and hydrogen ions deep into the core lattices of pycnometal catalysts involving both harmonic and anyharmonic continuum vibrations and oscillations for building up energies for bosonic nuclear and fermionic nuclear processes as catalyzed even in other atoms by the consequent high energy core of the metal lattive.

    In 2003 (On the Enhanced Reverse Beta Processes in Graphene-Iron Composite Nanostructures at High Temperatures in Strong Magnetic Field) [http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0705/0705.1909.pdf] , the scenario of such thermal and pressure induced continuum excitations in iron-hydrogen and possibly carbon system in strong magnetic field and magnetization was proposed and measured to simulate the core of the earth and its possible unconventional nuclear processes in the terrestrial core. In this work in 2015 Lundin and Lidgren propose similar such terrestrial nuclear processes.

    • Axil Axil

      The ponderomotive force is based on an oscillating charge. Your theory is magnetic. You have missed the distinction between magnetism and charge.

      • RLittle

        No you have missed the relation between electric and magnetic fields. Take care…

        • Axil Axil

          How so?

  • uDevil

    What reason is there to believe Rossi uses square wave power input? Hasn’t he said DC works? I seriously doubt the signal across the resistive heater is even close to square.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Vessy’s blog photo

      • uDevil

        Thanks, Bob. I suppose you mean the picture discussed here: http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/photo-andrea-rossi-laboratory-x-ray/

        OK, a triac-modulated sinewave, not a square wave. You will have harmonics up to maybe 1 MHz and noise beyond that. These represent a small portion of the total power. They will be attenuated by the wiring and heater coil. At the linked page, there is a quote from Rossi saying essentially the same thing. It’s a reasonable comment, probably not misdirection. Bob Higgins is also quoted, and he too seems dismissive of the idea of an electromagnetic stimulus. If a terahertz EM stimulus is needed, it’s hard to see how you get it directly from the power signal.

  • Will this paper be published in a peer reviewed journal? Or is it just a “hobby” work?

    • georgehants

      Science
      corrupted by the cult of profit: Fabrication, incompetence, grant
      swindling, fraud, dysfunction, tricks and lies are epidemic.
      “The thing that should scare people is that so many of these important
      published studies turn out to be wrong when they’re investigated
      further.” Peer review, in which a paper is checked out by eminent
      scientists before publication, isn’t a safeguard.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkFuturology/comments/1tu9xp/science_corrupted_by_the_cult_of_profit/

    • Omega Z

      Barty- Excerpt from Mats blog

      Lundin and Lidgren submitted their paper to the open preprint website Arxiv.org and to the peer-reviewed journal Plasma Physics and Controlled Fusion, PPCF, but both declined to even let reviewers have a look at it, the latter arguing “that the content of the article is not within the scope of the journal”. Arxiv.org even blocked Lundin from submitting further papers during July and August.

  • Gerard McEk

    As far as I can understand this theory, hydrogen is not e reactant in the Rossi reactor, but just lithium and nickel. Also does hydrogen not seem to contribute to the reaction, so why is ti needed, or isn’t it needed? What also is said to be important, is a very high EM frequency which should be in the Terahertz. It seems to me unlikely that AR was able to generate with his thyristor/triac unit. The heating coil is unsuitable for these frequencies, so I am not sure how Rossi would generate this high frequency. In my view there is more meat to the bone needed to explain the Ecat.

    • Maybe the high frequency isn’t really necessary but recommended for best efficiency.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Vessy’s blog photo

  • Gerard McEk

    As far as I can understand this theory, hydrogen is not a reactant in the Rossi reactor, but just lithium and nickel. Also does hydrogen not seem to contribute to the reaction, so why is it needed, or isn’t it needed? What also is said to be important, is a very high EM frequency which should be in the Terahertz. It seems to me unlikely that AR was able to generate with his thyristor/triac unit or does he have a hidden unit? The heating coil is unsuitable for these frequencies, so I am not sure how Rossi would generate this high frequency anyway. In my view there is more meat to the bone needed to explain the Ecat.

    • Maybe the high frequency isn’t really necessary but recommended for best efficiency.

  • Bob Greenyer

    A few points

    1. Terahertz is between IR and Microwave – if E-Cat can self sustain at all with this theory – the resonance must at least in part sit in the thermal temperature range.

    2. Hydrogen would not play a role (only fractionally present Deuterium) – this would sit well with the claim by Industrial heat patent application that the reactor need not be sealed completely. LiAlH4 would then only be a means of getting the Li into the right reaction matrix. If reactor was sealed, then LiAlD4 would have a better yield.

    3. This theory would need some energy interchange during the spallation of neutrons and their capture to facilitate the necessary energy barriers and low radiation characteristics of the E-Cat. The neutron interchange would also have to be controlled in such a way as to be a hand-shaking exercise such that there were no free neutrons, as there is no long term activation of reactor materials in the E-Cat.

    4. This theory makes it very unlikely that helium will be seen in the E-Cat.

    5. This theory may go some way to explain the results of Tadahiko Mizuno :

    https://youtu.be/DB_MRUX4mo0?t=12m58s

    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/YoshinoHreplicable.pdf

    6. This theory would explain the claim by Rossi that he never saw excess heat without Lithium.

    Perhaps not having Deuterium and keeping it to 7Li means that there is less/no chance of neutrons that can cause activation.

    • Eyedoc

      regarding the ‘claim by Industrial heat patent application that the reactor need not be sealed completely’ where was that?…..I did not see that at all.

      • Obvious

        WO 20151127263 PCT/US2015/016897

        [0008] In some embodiments, the reaction chamber is open such that it does not maintain a pressurized seal.

        • Obvious

          [0073] Although the sealing members (14) may provide an air-tight seal, in some embodiments, the sealing members (14) are sufficient to retain the reactive material, but do not necessarily maintain an air-tight seal. An air-tight seal may be used when the reactive material includes the addition of a gas, such as pressurized hydrogen; however, in some embodiments, the reactive material does not require a pressurized gas, and an air-tight seal is not necessary. For example, nickel hydride may be used as the reactive material with or without a pressurized gas. In particular embodiments, the reactive material is not sealed and may even be in contact or in fluid communication with the outside environment. An unsealed device may be easier to manufacture, transport, and maintain. Moreover, reactive materials that do not include pressurized hydrogen may be safer to use than those that utilize pressurized hydrogen. One or more criterion configured for a control system may be modified based on the reactive material. In an embodiment, a control system may determine and control sealing based on information identifying the reactive material. Sealing of a reactor may be altered during operation based on input form a sensor, a timer, and/or any attribute accessible to a control system.

  • Bob Greenyer

    A few points

    1. Terahertz is between IR and Microwave – if E-Cat can self sustain at all with this theory – the resonance must at least in part sit in the thermal temperature range.

    2. Hydrogen would not play a role (only fractionally present Deuterium) – this would sit well with the claim by Industrial heat patent application that the reactor need not be sealed completely. LiAlH4 would then only be a means of getting the Li into the right reaction matrix. If reactor was sealed, then LiAlD4 would have a better yield.

    3. This theory would need some energy interchange during the spallation of neutrons and their capture to facilitate the necessary energy barriers and low radiation characteristics of the E-Cat. The neutron interchange would also have to be controlled in such a way as to be a hand-shaking exercise such that there were no free neutrons, as there is no long term activation of reactor materials in the E-Cat.

    4. This theory makes it very unlikely that helium will be seen in the E-Cat. That is assuming it is a Neutron exchange only between light element and heavy element, i.e. 2H / 7Li and say 40Ca / 58Ni – if the Neutrons were free, then interactions with 7Li may make He for example.

    5. This theory may go some way to explain the results of Tadahiko Mizuno :

    https://youtu.be/DB_MRUX4mo0?t=12m58s

    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/YoshinoHreplicable.pdf

    6. This theory would explain the claim by Rossi that he never saw excess heat without Lithium.

    Perhaps not having Deuterium and keeping it to 7Li means that there is less/no chance of neutrons that can cause activation.

    Are Gamma photons that may be released, down-converted to the intense ‘light’ they talk of.

    • Eyedoc

      regarding the ‘claim by Industrial heat patent application that the reactor need not be sealed completely’ where was that?…..I did not see that at all.

      • Obvious

        WO 20151127263 PCT/US2015/016897

        [0008] In some embodiments, the reaction chamber is open such that it does not maintain a pressurized seal.

        • Obvious

          [0073] Although the sealing members (14) may provide an air-tight seal, in some embodiments, the sealing members (14) are sufficient to retain the reactive material, but do not necessarily maintain an air-tight seal. An air-tight seal may be used when the reactive material includes the addition of a gas, such as pressurized hydrogen; however, in some embodiments, the reactive material does not require a pressurized gas, and an air-tight seal is not necessary. For example, nickel hydride may be used as the reactive material with or without a pressurized gas. In particular embodiments, the reactive material is not sealed and may even be in contact or in fluid communication with the outside environment. An unsealed device may be easier to manufacture, transport, and maintain. Moreover, reactive materials that do not include pressurized hydrogen may be safer to use than those that utilize pressurized hydrogen. One or more criterion configured for a control system may be modified based on the reactive material. In an embodiment, a control system may determine and control sealing based on information identifying the reactive material. Sealing of a reactor may be altered during operation based on input form a sensor, a timer, and/or any attribute accessible to a control system.

  • Axil Axil

    In the Lugano test, each nickel atom comprising the 100 micro nickel particle swapped either 1, 2, 3 or 4 neutrons from multiple lithium 7 atoms to get to pure Ni62 from Ni58, Ni60 and Ni61 and this swap happened to all billion atoms of the that particle in one operation. This is what this latest neutron theory cannot explain. This is called cluster transformation.

    • Stephen

      I wonder if thes kind of resonances can work collectively, could the Ponderomotive force somehow provide the means of coupling for these resonances or allow the nuclei act in a collective way to transform to a lower energy state?

      • Axil Axil

        Consider how neutrons move from lithium 7, to the atoms deep inside the 100 micron nickel particle. Each low energy neutron is highly reactive and will combine with the first nickel atom that it encounters. This implyes that the nickel atoms on the surface of the particle would have more neutrons added to the nickel nucleus. We would expect to see at least Ni64 or een zinc near the surface of the partile. This atoms near the surface would all be heavier than the atoms at the center of the particle. But the nickel is pure with Ni62 at the surface and at the center.

  • Axil Axil

    In the Lugano test, each nickel atom comprising the 100 micro nickel particle swapped either 1, 2, 3 or 4 neutrons from multiple lithium 7 atoms to get to pure Ni62 from Ni58, Ni60 and Ni61 and this swap happened to all billion atoms of the that particle in one operation. This is what this latest neutron theory cannot explain. This is called cluster transformation.

    All these neutron theories such as this one and L&W are unitary theories where neutrons are moved one neutron at a time. This one neutron transfer method cannot leave a pure isotope in large amounts(a billion atoms).

    • Stephen

      I wonder if thes kind of resonances can work collectively, could the Ponderomotive force somehow provide the means of coupling for these resonances or allow the nuclei act in a collective way to transform to a lower energy state?

      Edit: As nuclear scientists, i suppose they will be very well aware of the energetic constraints with fusion and neutron absorption including generation of gamma and neutrons. And that this is counter to current observed LENR behaviour.

      Perhaps this papaer is just part of the story explaining some aspects of LENR, but a more collective approach and mix of ideas will be needed to explain everything. It does seem that when LENR is working smoothly and if neutrons are implicated that they are transferred with out these side effects. It’s almost as if they tunnel to the other atom and arrive in the right stare sufficiently low energy. Could Rydberg matter, ultra dense material and collective behaviour be important for this?

      • Axil Axil

        Consider how neutrons move from lithium 7, to the atoms deep inside the 100 micron nickel particle. Each low energy neutron is highly reactive and will combine with the first nickel atom that it encounters. This implyes that the nickel atoms on the surface of the particle would have more neutrons added to the nickel nucleus. We would expect to see at least Ni64 or even copper and zinc near the surface of the particle. These atoms near the surface would all be heavier than the atoms at the center of the particle. But the nickel is pure with Ni62 at the surface and at the center.

        It looks like that particle was treated as a single atom,,,all billion atoms.

        And where did all that carbon in that particle go?

        • “It looks like that particle was treated as a single atom,,,all billion atoms.”

          If it was so, it would be enormous.

  • Stephen

    There is a lot in this paper it seems to have some very good well thought through ideas and deserves slowly digesting like a good meal. After an initial scan I’m currently only about half way through reading it and considering it more deeply.

    I was amazed by the process analogy to Alfvén waves. About 30 or more years ago as an undergraduate and a bit after I studied them as a phenomena in Solar Flares. It’s astounding that similar effects might be present at inter atomic and nuclear level and that similar phenomena are to be found in solids as in a plasma when considered in this way. I was thrilled to read the ideas and see the way that the Ponderomotive force behaves.

    Alfvén waves are a magnetohydrodynamic phenomena that propagate along the direction of the magnetic field lines.

    If I understand right there are a number of different types of Ponderomotive effects. The Gradient Miller Force, and an Abraham force due to an oscillating electric field are most powerful In a weak or magnetic field free environment, but they mention that depending on the heating method the magnetic gradient force is also viable.

    From fig 1. Perhaps the magnetic field is still important in LENR order to give direction to the electric field and pondermotive force.

    I guess I still need to read more and consider more deaply.

    I’m very glad that engineers and scientist of this level are taking courage and contributing to the field there is real hope now that we will get the understanding. A big thank you to Rikard Lundin and Hans Lidgren for that.

  • Stephen

    There is a lot in this paper it seems to have some very good well thought through ideas and deserves slowly digesting like a good meal. After an initial scan I’m currently only about half way through reading it and considering it more deeply.

    I was amazed by the process analogy to Alfvén waves. About 30 or more years ago as an undergraduate and a bit after I studied them as a phenomena in Solar Flares. It’s astounding that similar effects might be present at inter atomic and nuclear level and that similar phenomena are to be found in solids as in a plasma when considered in this way. I was thrilled to read the ideas and see the way that the Ponderomotive force behaves.

    Alfvén waves are a magnetohydrodynamic phenomena that propagate along the direction of the magnetic field lines.

    If I understand right there are a number of different types of Ponderomotive effects. The Gradient Miller Force, and an Abraham force due to an oscillating electric field are most powerful In a weak or magnetic field free environment, but they mention that depending on the heating method the magnetic gradient force is also viable.

    From fig 1. Perhaps the magnetic field is still important in LENR order to give direction to the electric field and pondermotive force.

    I guess I still need to read more and consider more deaply.

    I’m very glad that engineers and scientist of this level are taking courage and contributing to the field there is real hope now that we will get the understanding. A big thank you to Rikard Lundin and Hans Lidgren for that.

  • Ryan

    I’m guessing it would be possible eventually but currently we’re still working on nanotech (working at a scale where we could manipulate atoms individually) and doing things on a scale where we’re building up materials directly would require femtotech (working with nuclear level particles such as protons, electrons and neutrons) which thus far would at best be theoretical. I figure we’ll get there, and further, but in what time frame is the question.

  • Omega Z

    “replicator machines” would probably only be beneficial in a Star Trek scenario where you don’t know exactly what you’ll need for the trip and have limited carry capacity. Energy equal to Matter, vice versa plus the energy consumed for the process. Not necessarily a good thing otherwise.

    Teleporting will be interesting.
    Are they disassembling you & reassembling you- OR
    Are they destroying you & merely creating a copy.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Déjà vu. When I first saw John Hutchison’s block of iron, I had a crazy thought but couldn’t think of a mechanism. Could “Ponderomotive Forces” allow the following to take place?

    Fe(57) + Fe(57) > Fe(56) + Fe(58) 2.4 MeV

    Fe(57) + Fe(54) > Fe(56) + Fe(55) 1.7 MeV

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-YwbgXpnkA

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Déjà vu. When I first saw John Hutchison’s block of iron, I had a crazy thought but couldn’t think of a mechanism. Could “Ponderomotive Forces” allow the following to take place?

    Fe(57) + Fe(57) > Fe(56) + Fe(58) 2.4 MeV

    Fe(57) + Fe(54) > Fe(56) + Fe(55) 1.7 MeV

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-YwbgXpnkA