Fulvio Fabiani on “The New Frontier of Energy” — Discusses Rossi and the E-Cat with Mats Lewan

Fulvio Fabiani is an Italian engineer who has worked side by side with Andrea Rossi since 2012, and is now in charge of R&D activties at Leonardo Corporation under the direction of Rossi. Mats Lewan has just published an interview he conducted with Fabiani on his animpossibleinvention.com blog where lots of interesting information about what it has been like to have been intimately involved with the development of the E-Cat.

The interview can be read in full here: http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

Below are some selected quotes from Fulvio Fabiani.

On Andrea Rossi:

“He comes with a paper fluttering, saying ‘Oh, I had this idea, we have to try this’, throwing away 15 days of your setup of a reactor because he wants to try something different, and you have not even finished the idea that he had previously. Rossi is an avalanche of great ideas.

“He has an ability, not of imagination but of reasoning about physics that is impressive. I see him analyzing immense formulas of physical behavior of matter that leave me speechless, and sometimes he goes: ‘Look, they made a sign error here, how is that possible?’ Because he’s not reading the book. He’s analyzing it, hair by hair. He studies 24h because he analyses everything that others say, because they don’t convince him.”

On the 1 MW Plant:

“I can assure you that the shutdown of the reaction is immediate. The response at ignition with the certified technology is medium fast since we use this technology to produce steam. With steam, inertia when starting up is necessary because of the mass of water that becomes steam. But with ideas we have plans for everything, even instantaneous reactions.”

[…]

“Until now the test is in line with the result that we expected. We encountered the biggest problems during the design and installation phase of the test plant. The most difficult thing was the choice of materials needed to withstand this new kind of energy release and this type of operation for such a long time. And we have found many little flaws—teething problems. For example, also the choice of bolts has led to a revision because some bolts were not sufficiently treated with anti-corrosive, and so they rusted. But if you don’t test you cannot say that you have a product to sell.”

On the fuel formulas:

I don’t have knowledge on the reaction because the formula is not my concern. When it is time, Rossi makes his mixtures according to his formulas, puts the charge in the cores and gives me the complete cores. A reactor is composed of a core, an excitation system, and a system for heat exchange. I look after the excitation system and the system for heat exchange, and also the physical realization of the core. But the core must be filled with the mixture of powders that Rossi from time to time recalibrates in function of the effect that he wants to achieve.

On the E-Cat Reaction:

“Over the years we realized that the reaction needs more stimuli than only heating. Everyone thinks that thermal stimulus is enough but that’s just the beginning. It’s not enough for maximum efficiency. It’s the base, the synthesis of the reaction. But the reaction has almost behaviors as of living matter, and it has responses as a function of the stimuli. They can be of many types other than thermal. And these are the ones that trigger, let’s call it the most fun part of it, allowing excellent gains in terms of response to the stimuli.”

On the Future:

“I have really seen… Did you see Blade Runner? The quote at the end, ‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw. We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX* and many others of Rossi’s experiments. We have tried lots of things, and we have made some twenty and more different reactors. And I can assure you that with some of them we have truly seen a new world. Energy density, reaction capacity, in the sense of things never seen. The new frontier of energy.”

These are just some selected quotes; I find the whole interview fascinating, partly because it is so rare to hear anything about what goes on the ‘inside’ from anyone apart from Andrea Rossi. Fabiani gives a different perspective, but one that backs up what Rossi has been talking about in terms of the work that has been done by Rossi and his team. Fulvio states that he is at the head of a group of 12 engineers, and later he mentions that there are 10 or 15 ‘top level managers’ which include Darden and Rossi. He says regardless of how commenters on the internet complain about things going so slowly, “I only see people really devoting all their resources and all their time to make this happen.”

  • LuFong

    Very exciting read. Fabiani seems well suited as his role of Rossi’s engineer. His picture of Rossi and the E-Cat technology is inspiring. Perhaps I’m underestimating Rossi. The future looks very bright 🙂

  • Great stuff, but it needs to make news before the next election. I hope they have a big press conference in mind. Make it BIG. Invite Al Gore to inspect the plant.

    • Omega Z

      “The only known LENR research at a U.S. University is led by George Miley, a retired professor at the University of Illinois.”

      Krivit left out Texas Tech which is building a new research facility for LENR & University of Missouri, Home of Sidney Kimmel Institute for Nuclear Renaissance (SKINR)…

      • GreenWin

        He also leaves out Dr. Yeong Kim at Purdue. He is the scientist who has long advocated the role of many-body theory and Bose-Einstein Condensate in LENR. http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/yekim.html

        • GreenWin

          Kirvit continues to prove himself remarkably ignorant, or serving an ignorant agenda.

  • Great stuff, but it needs to make news before the next election. I hope they have a big press conference in mind. Make it BIG. Invite Al Gore to inspect the plant.

    “Japan’s Leadership in LENRs Continues”

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2015/11/24/japans-leadership-in-lenrs-continues/

    Imagine this new rocket design with a LENR engine. The vertical landing capability is incredible to watch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pillaOxGCo

    • Omega Z

      “The only known LENR research at a U.S. University is led by George Miley, a retired professor at the University of Illinois.”

      Krivit left out Texas Tech which is building a new research facility for LENR & University of Missouri, Home of Sidney Kimmel Institute for Nuclear Renaissance (SKINR)…

      • fact police

        He also left out Hagelstein at MIT (he’s a theorist but is connected to Swartz, who does experiments). Other American academics involved that come immediately to mind are Kim, Nagel, and Dash.

        • Omega Z

          Hagelstein is tenured & can get away with this on the side.

          MIT does not support it or any LENR research on it’s own.

          • fact police

            The quotation was about research *at* a university, which means the university provides infrastructure and salary support. It’s unlikely Miley gets any additional support from his university, or that Missouri supports SKINR beyond infrastructure and salary, or for that matter that the Japanese universities support the Japanese efforts beyond this level.

      • GreenWin

        He also leaves out Dr. Yeong Kim at Purdue. He is the scientist who has long advocated the role of many-body theory and Bose-Einstein Condensate in LENR. http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/yekim.html

        • GreenWin

          Kirvit continues to prove himself remarkably ignorant, or serving an ignorant agenda.

    • Christina

      I want us to go to the edge of the solar system learning as we explore while taking care not to pollute it; then, that accomplished, warping to the stars.

  • Mats002

    Hi Frank! I have a memory you was invited to see the plant by Mr Rossi himself a year or two ago. Are you still on his list? When will it happen?

    • ecatworld

      I believe so, yes. But to be confirmed.

  • Mats002

    Hi Frank! I have a memory you were invited by Mr Rossi himself to see the 1 MW plant a year or two ago. Are you still on his list? When will it happen? You have earned it!

    • Frank Acland

      I believe so, yes. But to be confirmed.

  • passerby

    Man that was a great read, very inspirational.

  • passerby

    Man that was a great read, very inspirational.

  • Axil Axil

    http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

    Fulvio Fabiani states:

    “We have it all filmed, which still cannot be disclosed. We have photographs of creatures that emit pure light that have completely melted the reactor down, all in a very quite way. You just turn off the stimuli system and the reaction is switched off. It’s impressive.”

    The small creatures of light are mobile NAE made of balls of XUV light. These are SPPs that have decoupled from the structure of the reactor and have become mobile.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      If they see light, it cannot be XUV because XUV is invisible.

      • Axil Axil

        The SPP starts out as infrared and as it stores more light over time, it grows smaller and the light that it contains gets more energetic. When it passes through the visible stage it can be seen. Then it moves on to the XUV and x-ray levels where it is not visible. R. Mills sees these SPPs experimentally in the 10 nn wavelength. He call them blacklight.

        • Agaricus

          “The SPP starts out as storing infrared light…” Hence the need for heating to produce a high intensity IR environment in the reactor, analogous to the light pump of a laser.

          Questions for Axil Axil: How in theory will external oscillating EM fields interact with SPPs? Is there a way that frequency matching/antiphase could be used to intensify or destroy SPPs?

          • Axil Axil

            Fulvio Fabiani states:

            “Over the years we realized that the reaction needs more stimuli than only heating. Everyone thinks that thermal stimulus is enough but that’s just the beginning. It’s not enough for maximum efficiency. It’s the base, the synthesis of the reaction. But the reaction has almost behaviors as of living matter, and it has responses as a function of the stimuli. They can be of many types other than thermal. And these are the ones that trigger, let’s call it the most fun part of it, allowing excellent gains in terms of response to the stimuli.”

            The non infrared stimuli must be magnetic since the SPP has a huge monopole magnetic beam the projects from one pole. Rydberg matter on which the SPPs form acts as an antenna. I guess stimulation would involve RF and/or an alternating magnetic field. These SPPs will form a bose condensate where all the SPP act as one. People who have assumed the non heat stimuli has something to do with the EMF fields that the coil puts out are on the right tract.

            I seem to remember vaguely that the Papp engine needed radio waves in the citizen band range as a stimulant.

          • US_Citizen71

            Most of that disruption was caused by the use, extraction and search for fossil fuels but that doesn’t fit your narrative, does it? Much of the damage to the seas diversity was done with little more than wind power. Ignorance and belief of the seas being inexhaustible is to blame not the energy sources used by the world.

          • Omega Z

            “belief of the seas being inexhaustible”

            Yep, I recall that being taught in school & shouted from the news rooms.

            Cheap, Clean Limitless Energy-

            My Grand-kids be like-

            Yep, I recall that being taught in school & shouted from the news rooms.

            LENR is a gift. Hopefully, we will use it wisely.

          • Barney Holmes

            “There’s not a crisis of energy, there’s a crisis of ignorance” Buckminster Fuller. Search for “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” for the background.

          • Agaricus

            SPPs = orchestra, stimulation (frequency) = conductor?

          • GreenWin

            Creating symphonic resonance and music for the eyes. Nicely put Peter.

        • TomR

          Thanks Axil Axil, Pekka must not have read Vortex before he posted.

    • Roland

      Remarkably timely.

  • Axil Axil

    http://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/

    Fulvio Fabiani states:

    “We have it all filmed, which still cannot be disclosed. We have photographs of creatures that emit pure light that have completely melted the reactor down, all in a very quite way. You just turn off the stimuli system and the reaction is switched off. It’s impressive.”

    The small creatures of light are mobile NAE made of balls of XUV light. These are SPPs that have decoupled from the structure of the melting reactor and have become mobile.

    DGT has also seen these EMF balls inside their reactor. These are the bubbles that Dr. Kim reported (LMT) as exploding in a Bosenova.

    From ICCF-18 DGT report

    “These external magnetic fields could provide localized magnetic trap (LMT) potentials for Boson clusters on the surface of Ni powders (LMTs with short lifetimes)”

    • Pekka Janhunen

      If they see light, it cannot be XUV because XUV is invisible.

      • Axil Axil

        The SPP starts out as storing infrared light and as it stores more light over time, it grows smaller and the light that it contains gets more energetic through an increase in frequency as the power level of the SPP increases. When the SPP passes through the visible stage, it can be seen. Then it moves on to the XUV and x-ray levels where it is not visible. R. Mills sees these SPPs experimentally in the 10 nn wavelength. He call them blacklight.

        From DGT: “No gamma rays outside the energy range of 50 keV–300
        keV have been observed from the experiments with the
        Hyperon reactor”

        7.2540e+13 MHz
        Frequency

        4.1328e-3 nm
        Wavelength

        300000 eV
        Energy

        • “The SPP starts out as storing infrared light…” Hence the need for heating to produce a high intensity IR environment in the reactor, analogous to the light pump of a laser.

          Question for Axil Axil: How in theory will external oscillating EM fields interact with (or create) SPPs? Is there a theoretical model supporting Fabiani’s statement that LENRs cease when ‘stimulation’ (oscillating EMFs? RF/microwave input?) is switched off?

          • Axil Axil

            Fulvio Fabiani states:

            “Over the years we realized that the reaction needs more stimuli than only heating. Everyone thinks that thermal stimulus is enough but that’s just the beginning. It’s not enough for maximum efficiency. It’s the base, the synthesis of the reaction. But the reaction has almost behaviors as of living matter, and it has responses as a function of the stimuli. They can be of many types other than thermal. And these are the ones that trigger, let’s call it the most fun part of it, allowing excellent gains in terms of response to the stimuli.”

            The non infrared stimuli must be magnetic since the SPP has a huge monopole magnetic beam the projects from one pole. Rydberg matter on which the SPPs form acts as an antenna. I guess stimulation would involve RF and/or an alternating magnetic field. These SPPs will form a bose condensate where all the SPP act as one. People who have assumed the non heat stimuli has something to do with the EMF fields that the coil puts out are on the right tract.

            I seem to remember vaguely that the Papp engine needed radio waves in the citizen band range as a stimulant.

          • SPPs = orchestra, stimulation (frequency) = conductor?

          • GreenWin

            Creating symphonic resonance and music for the eyes. Nicely put Peter.

        • TomR

          Thanks Axil Axil, Pekka must not have read Vortex before he posted.

    • Roland

      Remarkably timely.

  • NT

    Wow, a very exciting and stimulating interview. Thanks for the uplift Frank, with all the bad news in this world today there is some hope for the future with the likes of Rossi and his fabulous team…

  • NT

    Wow, a very exciting and stimulating interview. Thanks for the uplift Frank, with all the bad news in this world today there is some hope for the future with the likes of Rossi and his fabulous team…

  • Gerard McEk

    An very interesting interview. It is good to read that the 1 MW unit is still performing as expected. I hope that AR has ensured that the knowhow he possesses of the fuel mixes and LENR stimuli is safed for the people in the world, also when he dies.

  • Joseph J
  • Joseph J
  • georgehants

    Quote from above —–

    “I have really seen… Did you see Blade Runner? The quote at the end,
    ‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you
    that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw.
    We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is
    nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX* and
    many others of Rossi’s experiments. We have tried lots of things, and we
    have made some twenty and more different reactors. And I can assure you
    that with some of them we have truly seen a new world. Energy density,
    reaction capacity, in the sense of things never seen. The new frontier
    of energy.”
    ———

    It would I think seem even more imperative that this foolishness be hidden, denied and debunked as quickly and effectively as possible.
    These people are suggesting that there could be a way for the ordinary rabble of this World to live healthy, happy lives. This must be stopped.
    I call on all scientists to rise up and fight this travesty, it could lead to an evil caring and sharing society with no place left for those of us that want to be more powerful and rich than others.

    • Timar

      I’m affraid capitalism will always find a way to adopt to technological disruption.

      The only thing that can make a “caring and sharing” society are caring and sharing people. Clean and abundant energy will make it easier for people to behave altruistic, but it won’t instantaneously change mankind for the better.

      • Agaricus

        Sadly, true.

      • georgehants

        Timar, it is good to have a goal and purpose in life, mine is the Utopian dream of a sharing and caring Worldwide society.
        You of course are correct in that there are many obstacles to overcome and the possibility of clean, cheap energy from Cold fusion only helps with the practical technological side, changing people will take I suppose, far longer than I have to witness it, but that is no deterrent to keep trying.
        No harm in positive thinking, I think.

  • georgehants

    Quote from above —–
    “I have really seen… Did you see Blade Runner? The quote at the end,
    ‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you
    that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw.
    We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is
    nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX* and
    many others of Rossi’s experiments. We have tried lots of things, and we
    have made some twenty and more different reactors. And I can assure you
    that with some of them we have truly seen a new world. Energy density,
    reaction capacity, in the sense of things never seen. The new frontier
    of energy.”
    ———
    It would I think seem even more imperative that this foolishness be hidden, denied and debunked as quickly and effectively as possible.
    These people are suggesting that there could be a way for the ordinary rabble of this World to live healthy, happy lives. This must be stopped.
    I call on all scientists to rise up and fight this travesty, it could lead to an evil caring and sharing society with no place left for those of us that want to be more powerful and rich than others.

    • Timar

      I’m affraid capitalism will always find a way to adopt to technological disruption.

      The only thing that can make a “caring and sharing” society are caring and sharing people. Clean and abundant energy will make it easier for people to behave altruistic, but it won’t instantaneously change mankind for the better.

      • Sadly, true.

      • Anthropocene

        An abundance of cheap energy may actually help humanity to disrupt the world even more. We have already with “expensive” fossil energy halfed the amount of life in the oceans, cut down half of the forests on the planet, and spread toxins and garbage all over the world.

        What would happen if we get even cheaper energy?

        • US_Citizen71

          Most of that disruption was caused by the use, extraction and search for fossil fuels but that doesn’t fit your narrative, does it? Much of the damage to the seas diversity was done with little more than wind power. Ignorance and belief of the seas being inexhaustible is to blame not the energy sources used by the world.

          • Omega Z

            “belief of the seas being inexhaustible”

            Yep, I recall that being taught in school & shouted from the news rooms.

            Cheap, Clean Limitless Energy-

            My Grand-kids be like-

            Yep, I recall that being taught in school & shouted from the news rooms.

            LENR is a gift. Hopefully, we will use it wisely.

          • bachcole

            Our desires are capable of increase infinitely. Look at the women who are divorced by rich guys. They can’t imagine living on anything less than $25,000 per month.

          • “There’s not a crisis of energy, there’s a crisis of ignorance” Buckminster Fuller. Search for “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” for the background.

        • The cost is less relevant in this context than the degree of ‘collateral damage’ to the environment. A clean energy source, whether cheap or otherwise, will reduce further damage due to use of fossil energy to the degree that the latter is replaced by new low-pollution technologies including LENR. Low cost will be one factor tending to increase the extent of early adoption.

          That said, the larger part of environmental damage has resulted from the use of petrochemical pesticides, waste dumping from a huge range of human activities, plundering of non-fuel resources and more recently, widespread geoengineering and the massive release of radionuclides into the Pacific from Fukushima.

          None of these factors is likely to be affected much by the advent of cold fusion energy sources, and the destruction is likely to continue, possibly on a slightly reduced scale.

          • georgehants

            Peter, I am aware of only one possible solution to hopefully remove the further damage etc. that you outline.
            Do you have any thoughts on what that may be (ha) or any alternatives.

          • Hi George. You are at least one step ahead of me, as I can’t see any escape from the destruction that humans bring to their environment. At best we can mitigate damage around the fringes, but the general entropic drift towards mass extinction and degradation of all remaining natural ecosystems seems to be unstoppable (unless of course we all jump into our cold fusion powered interstellar transports and fly off to wreck another planet somewhere).

            Its being so cheerful, etc…

          • georgehants

            Morning Peter, remove the incentive to harm and destroy unnecessarily, remove all financial gain, remove capitalism.
            I say no more than replace the crazy present system with one that utilities sensibly the only things needed in society, manpower to supply needs of production and services.
            The financial system has no practical use of any-kind in today’s World (beyond a level of reward appropriate to given input) except to allow inequality etc.
            All the while gain can be made from destruction then destruction will continue.

          • You know Agaricus, LENR and information technology are both examples of how technology continuously gets increasingly efficient in producing something from natural resources. So while obtaining more benefits for more people we could decrease our use of natural resources in the long run, slowing down the general entropic drift. So in my eyes, theres’ good hope. But we must be aware of using these opportunities in a good way. I think we can.

          • bachcole

            Thanks to fossil fuels, we are out of the survival mode and have time to think things through, as we are already demonstrating here and among other LENR thought galleries. So I agree that we can avoid many of the same kinds of mistakes that we failed to care about in the past. It is not as though we didn’t know that pollution was a problem. People described Boise, Idaho in 1905 as a dreadful place because of the smoke stacks for mining. They, as a collective, didn’t care enough because people were running from poverty so fast that they didn’t have time to worry about smoke belching from smokestacks.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “None of these factors is likely to be affected much by the advent of cold fusion energy sources”

            I think such an advent would significantly reduce the likelihood of massive release of radionuclides by reducing the deployment of fission reactors. I also believe that cheap enough electricity would render more hydroponics feasible at the margin and so could impact use of pesticides – but I think that’s more of a stretch.

          • In the longer term, LENR will of course displace nuclear fission, but I was referring specifically to Fukushima, where uncontrolled releases of radioactivity are likely to continue into the indefinite future.

            I agree with your point about hydroponic farming, and see the creation of industrial ‘vertical farms’ as fairly inevitable if energy is cheap enough. Unfortunately it may still be seen as necessary to employ pesticides and other chemicals routinely in such ‘farms’.

          • Brent Buckner

            At least hydroponic farming generally uses less pesticides and allows for some remediation of pesticide imbued water.

          • Good point.

        • GreenWin

          Yours is the argument of Agenda 21/NWO/Dr. Paul Erlich – and “The Population Bomb.” Erlich continues to disgrace Stanford University with his sophomoric catastrophizing.

          A large part of deforestation is due to wood burning cook stoves. Imagine a world where carbon combustion of any variety is unnecessary? Imagine arid areas made fertile by abundant desalinated water. Elimination of water-borne pathogens. Imagine the return of rivers lakes and waterways to natural state by decommissioning electric generating dams. Habitat recovery by elimination of M-Km power transmission lines.

          Raising standards of living reduces population / live birth rates. Low cost clean energy wisely distributed is a boon to conservation, ecosystems and human welfare.

          • Gerald

            Wouldn’t clean cheap energy not open an opportunity to recycle all materials? So the need to extract resources from the environment would be lessens? My visions are complete eco systems/city totally independent.. They grow their own food underground or in skyscrapers. We just need to do it and change the way we think. Maybe I’m dreaming, but why not it al starts with dreaming before doing it.

          • Observer

            Imagine vertical vegetable/fish farms that need zero inorganic pesticides. They are almost cost effective now. They will be an absolute certainty with cheap energy along with marginal crop land in arid and semi-arid regions returned to their natural state. No more endless fields of corn for the ethanol scam.

            http://www.plantlab.nl/

            http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/vertical-farming-the-next-big-thing-for-food-and-tech.html

          • Yes, that’s what I discovered. All the best research/studies show that people in poverty from lack of food and/or energy have more children as a form of security.

        • Axil Axil

          Fulvio Fabiani states:

          “The field that this reaction opens up is so vast that it’s almost impossible to imagine all the capabilities and possibilities. I have always been a lover of science fiction, and yet I was never able to believe that the famous star ships you see in the movies would become possible, because it seemed too far away. But I have to say that when I saw what Rossi was able to open, I’m seeing that world getting closer. Maybe before I die I will see those starships. Yes, it’s a child’s dream.”

          LENR is far more than energy. It is a scientific paradigm shift beyond anything that can be imagined.

          I have never believed that Rossi appreciated this but maybe he has. Yes, starships with warp drives are now possible and replicators and tractor beams. There is time travel and teleportation, gravity control, the manipulation of space/time and the vacuum.

          • Timar

            Your theories and futuristic outlook on LENR are fascinating Axil, but personally I hope that clean water and the cultivation of dessert lands in the developing nations rank higher in our list of priorities than warp drives and time travel. Let’s first reach out our hands here on earth before reaching out to the stars. I’m affraid that our survival in a world worth living depends on our capability to ethically keep up with the technology we create. Utopian dream or dystopian nightmare – both is possible in a LENR-powered world.

          • Axil Axil

            I don’t foresee how a dystopian nightmare is enabled by LENR. Can you draw us a better perspective on this concept?

          • bachcole

            Any manifestation of a future will be determined by the choices that we make. LENR and anything else can be used for better or worse. Our choices are not dependent upon super-technology. Super-technology and it’s applications are dependent upon our choices. And our choices are dependent upon us and what is festering in our subconscious and in our hearts. Super technology can’t touch our subconscious and our hearts. Only we individually can do that; and help is available.

          • Timar

            Well, you were to one mentioning warp drive, gravity control and other things “beyond our imagination”. Such technology of course bears the potential for a destructive, millitary use. LENR might also enable weapon systems which are equally “beyond our imagination”.

            I like to be optimistic and think that there is a real chance that the abundance of clean LENR energy might enable a more equal and peaceful society. But we can’t just take that as a given. As bachcole said, it depends on the choises we collectively made. History teaches – no, we don’t even need to look at the past but only at the present – that man has the potential for the best and for the worst. This is one should hope for the best, but be prapared for the worst – at least mentally.

          • Omega Z

            “cultivation of desert lands”

            How about cultivation of previous farm lands & leave the deserts alone. Natural deserts are an eco system of their own. Also changing them can have unexpected consequences. It’s been suggested that irrigation & farming the Sahara desert could destroy the South American rain forests.

          • bachcole

            Seems right to me. The Amazon is dependent upon dust storms from the Sahara. But the harm would take a very long time to manifest, like more than 100 years.

          • Timar

            I agree with your reservations. I probably should have written “deserted lands”. Lands that were formerly known to be fertile. It is a little known fact that much of northern Africa was covered by large forests and arable land, but the deforestation caused first by the Phoenicians and later by the Roman Empire (mostly because of their constant need of wood for building the huge fleets needed to dominate the Mediterranean sea and constantly battling one another for supramacy over the course of centuries) caused arable land to disappear and a catastrophic climate change in Northern Africa, leading to the extension of the Sahara northwards, almost up the the Mediterranean sea (the thin humus layer eroded the same way it does today in deforested regions in the Amazonas. We are causing the same desertification there today). Some 4000 years ago, the sahara was roughly two-thirds the size it has today and the deforestation in antiquity is thought to have been the main cause for this. With LENR, it may be possible to reverse this.

          • Christina

            Wow!

            Christina

          • Gerald

            Indeed. If lern works and they know how it works then a new age of science will arrive and the possiblility’s will be infinite. Lets start with gravity control, looks to be the easiest one, just a local phenomena.

        • Timar

          Well, as it has been pointed out, much of that damage has actually been done on the pursuit of sourcing energy for mankind’s ever-growing needs.

          That said, I agree with you that limitless energy means also limitless potential for further destruction. It’s up to us what to make of such a potential. My hope for the future is that there actually may be a good thing about all the bad we have done to our environment since the beginning of industrialization: we have been forced to learn (or rather relearn, after having forgotten about it for centuries) to think in terms and concepts of ecology.

          Ultimately, it is a matter of how well we’ve learned this lesson. Maybe, in the end, it is even a good thing that it took so long for LENR to surface and global warming has become such a grave threat. I like to think that, as a species, we are capable of betterment. Sadly, we only seem to learn the hard way.

      • georgehants

        Timar, it is good to have a goal and purpose in life, mine is the Utopian dream of a sharing and caring Worldwide society.
        You of course are correct in that there are many obstacles to overcome and the possibility of clean, cheap energy from Cold fusion only helps with the practical technological side, changing people will take I suppose, far longer than I have to witness it, but that is no deterrent to keep trying.
        No harm in positive thinking, I think.
        ——–
        Edit, on rereading I realise that I wrote “changing people” as a totality, that completely misses the Fact that many, many, people feel as I do, but they are not in positions of power or wealth to change things beyond their own unselfish contributions in their own ways.

  • Tom59

    Now imagine what will happen if you have hundreds of PhD students coming in their LENR Labs each morning with a paper fluttering…

  • Tom59

    Now imagine what will happen if you have hundreds of PhD students coming in their LENR Labs each morning with a paper fluttering…

  • pg

    The interview is a bit colorful, but encouraging. I ask myself why would he be lying about it, he does not own the company and he is not a licensee, but “only” an engineer doing his job.
    That gives me hope we are close to seeing the results of our long wait.

  • pg

    The interview is a bit colorful, but encouraging. I ask myself why would he be lying about it, he does not own the company and he is not a licensee, but “only” an engineer doing his job.
    That gives me hope we are close to seeing the results of our long wait.

  • Stephen

    Wow hearing the voice and insights of the engineer is amazing! A great insight into what it is like in their team and also to work with Andrea Rossi. Its a rare and special glimpse into a facinating world where a creative mind and mutually respected and capable engineer come together. Thanks for sharing.

  • Stephen

    Wow hearing the voice and insights of the engineer is amazing! A great insight into what it is like in their team and also to work with Andrea Rossi. Its a rare and special glimpse into a facinating world where a creative and powerful mind and mutually respected and capable engineer come together. The e-cat looks to be beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

  • f sedei

    Very inspirational and a clearer inside look at the genius of Andrea Rossi–a force to be reckoned with.

  • f sedei

    Very inspirational and a clearer inside look at the genius of Andrea Rossi–a force to be reckoned with.

  • William D. Fleming

    This is a very encouraging interview, and exciting! This revolutionary development is really happening, but most of the public seems oblivious.

  • Agaricus

    The cost is less relevant in this context than the degree of ‘collateral damage’ to the environment. A clean energy source will eliminate further damage due to use of fossil energy, to the degree that the latter is replaced by new low-pollution technologies including LENR.

    That said, the larger part of environmental damage has resulted from the use of petrochemical pesticides, waste dumping from a huge range of human activities, plundering of non-fuel resources and more recently, widespread geoengineering and the massive release of radionuclides into the Pacific from Fukushima. None of these factors is likely to be affected much by the advent of cold fusion energy sources.

    • georgehants

      Peter, I am aware of only one possible solution to hopefully remove the further damage etc. that you outline.
      Do you have any thoughts on what that may be (ha) or any alternatives.

      • Agaricus

        Hi George. You are at least one step ahead of me, as I can’t see any escape from the destruction that humans bring to the environment. At best we can mitigate damage around the fringes, but the general entropic drift towards mass extinction and degradation of all remaining natural ecosystems seems to be unstoppable (unless of course we all jump into our cold fusion powered interstellar transports and fly off to wreck another planet somewhere).

        Its being so cheerful, etc…

        • georgehants

          Morning Peter, remove the incentive to harm and destroy unnecessarily, remove all financial gain, remove capitalism.
          I say no more than replace the crazy present system with one that utilities sensibly the only things needed in society, manpower to supply needs of production and services.
          The financial system has no practical use of any-kind in today’s World (beyond a level of reward appropriate to given input) except to allow inequality etc.
          All the while gain can be made from destruction then destruction will continue.

        • You know Agaricus, LENR and information technology are both examples of how technology continuously gets increasingly efficient in producing something from natural resources. So while obtaining more benefits for more people we could decrease our use of natural resources in the long run, slowing down the general entropic drift. So in my eyes, theres’ good hope. But we must be aware of using these opportunities in a good way. I think we can.

    • Brent Buckner

      You wrote: “None of these factors is likely to be affected much by the advent of cold fusion energy sources”

      I think such an advent would significantly reduce the likelihood of massive release of radionuclides by reducing the deployment of fission reactors. I also believe that cheap enough electricity would render more hydroponics feasible at the margin and so could impact use of pesticides – but I think that’s more of a stretch.

      • Agaricus

        In the longer term, LENR will of course displace nuclear fission, but I was referring specifically to Fukushima, where uncontrolled releases of radioactivity are likely to continue into the indefinite future.

        I agree with your point about hydroponic farming, and see the creation of industrial ‘vertical farms’ as fairly inevitable if energy is cheap enough. Unfortunately it may still be seen as necessary to employ pesticides and other chemicals routinely in such ‘farms’.

        • Brent Buckner

          At least hydroponic farming generally uses less pesticides and allows for some remediation of pesticide imbued water.

          • Agaricus

            Good point.

    • R101

      There’s some good info right there.

      • Axil Axil

        lay what you are think out for us.

  • US_Citizen71

    From the bottom of the interview: “Unless nothing unexpected happens, the trial, which is controlled by a major independent third party certification institute, should be concluded by February or March 2016, and the results will then be presented.” – This kills my secret hope of the one year test being the feature for the series finale of ‘The Mythbusters’, but it is great news never the less.

  • US_Citizen71

    From the bottom of the interview: “Unless nothing unexpected happens, the trial, which is controlled by a major independent third party certification institute, should be concluded by February or March 2016, and the results will then be presented.” – This kills my secret hope of the one year test being the feature for the series finale of ‘The Mythbusters’, but it is great news never the less.

  • GreenWin

    Yours is the argument of Agenda 21/NWO/Dr. Paul Erlich – and “The Population Bomb.” Erlich continues to disgrace Stanford University with his sophomoric catastrophizing.

    A large part of deforestation is due to wood burning cook stoves. Imagine a world where carbon combustion of any variety is unnecessary? Imagine arid areas made fertile by abundant desalinated water. Elimination of water-borne pathogens. Imagine the return of rivers lakes and waterways to natural state by decommissioning electric generating dams. Habitat recovery by elimination of M-Km power transmission lines.

    Raising standards of living reduces population / live birth rates. Low cost clean energy wisely distributed is a boon to conservation, ecosystems and human welfare.

    • Gerald

      Wouldn’t clean cheap energy not open an opportunity to recycle all materials? So the need to extract resources from the environment would be lessens? My visions are complete eco systems/city totally independent.. They grow their own food underground or in skyscrapers. We just need to do it and change the way we think. Maybe I’m dreaming, but why not it al starts with dreaming before doing it.

    • Barney Holmes

      Yes, that’s what I discovered. All the best research/studies show that people in poverty from lack of food and/or energy have more children as a form of security.

  • GreenWin

    Wonderful insight from a man working side by side with the good Dottore. Certainly has made my day and week. Thank you Ing Fabiani!

  • Axil Axil

    Fulvio Fabiani states:

    “The field that this reaction opens up is so vast that it’s almost impossible to imagine all the capabilities and possibilities. I have always been a lover of science fiction, and yet I was never able to believe that the famous star ships you see in the movies would become possible, because it seemed too far away. But I have to say that when I saw what Rossi was able to open, I’m seeing that world getting closer. Maybe before I die I will see those starships. Yes, it’s a child’s dream.”

    LENR is far more than energy. It is a scientific paradigm shift beyond anything that can be imagined.

    I have never believed that Rossi appreciated this but maybe he has. Yes, starships with warp drives are now possible and replicators and tractor beams. There is time travel and teleportation, gravity control, the manipulation of space/time and the vacuum.

    • Timar

      Your thories and futiristic outlook on LENR are fascinating Axil, but personally I hope that clean water and the cultivation of dessert lands in the developing nations rank higher in our list of priorities than warp drives and time travel. Let’s first reach out our hands here on earth before reaching out to the stars. I’m affraid that our survival in a world worth living depends on our capability to ethically keep up with the technology we create. Utopian dream or dystopian nightmare – both is possible.

      • Axil Axil

        I don’t foresee how a dystopian nightmare is enabled by LENR. Can you draw us a better perspective on this concept?

        • Timar

          Well, you were to one mentioning warp drive, gravity control and other things “beyond our imagination”. Such technology of course bears the potential for a destructive, millitary use. LENR might also enable weapon systems which are equally “beyond our imagination”.

          I like to be optimistic and think that there is a real chance that the abundance of clean LENR energy might enable a more equal and peaceful society. But we can’t just take that as a given. As bachcole said, it depends on the choises we collectively made. History teaches – no, we don’t even need to look at the past but only at the present – that man has the potential for the best and for the worst. This is one should hope for the best, but be prapared for the worst – at least mentally.

        • orsobubu

          I agree on hopes about the revelations of the technology, don’t agree on hopes about the crisis. If LENRs application result in less money to be made, this implies deeper future economic crisis, since this is the outcome when markets shrink. If the result is more money, this implies more workers’ exploitation, more fame and fortunes to be divided and conquered by imperialistic marauders. Only ways out: capitalistic planetary expansion or a communist revolution.

      • Omega Z

        “cultivation of desert lands”

        How about cultivation of previous farm lands & leave the deserts alone. Natural deserts are an eco system of their own. Also changing them can have unexpected consequences. It’s been suggested that irrigation & farming the Sahara desert could destroy the South American rain forests.

        • Timar

          I agree with your reservations. I probably should have written “deserted lands”. Lands that where formerly known to be fertile. It is a little known fact that much of northern Africa was covered by large forests and arable land, but the deforestation caused first by the Phoenicians and later by the Roman Empire (mostly because of their constant need of wood for building the huge fleets needed to dominate the Mediterranean sea and constantly battling one another for supramacy over the course of centuries) caused arable land to disappear and a catastrophic climate change in Northern Africa, leading to the extension of the Sahara northwards, almost up the the Mediterranean sea. Some 4000 years ago, the sahara was roughly two-thirds the size it has today and the deforestation in antiquity is thought to have been the main cause for this.

    • Gerald

      Indeed. If lern works and they know how it works then a new age of science will arrive and the possiblility’s will be infinite. Lets start with gravity control, looks to be the easiest one, just a local phenomena.

  • Timar

    Well, as it has been pointed out, much of that damage was actually done on the pursuit of sourcing mankind’s ever-growing need for energy.

    That said, I agree with you that limitless energy means also limitless potential for further destruction. It’s up to us what to make of such a potential. My hope for the future is that there actually may be a good thing about all the bad we have done to our environment since the beginning of industrialization: we have learned to think in terms and concepts of ecology

  • bachcole

    I haven’t read the full interview yet, but I just got to stop and say “WOW“. It actually brought tears to my eyes.

    • Wow! 😉

      • Omega Z

        Excellent Mats. Just Excellent…

        Interestingly, An interview of Fabiani has weighed heavily on my mind for better then a week. I actually considered asking Frank to look into the possibilty. Incidently, I had you in mind for the task.

        Absolutely nothing against Frank. Frank does a fantastic job with ECW. I was just thinking that with your history(You & Fabiani have associates in common) that you had the best chance of arranging such an opportunity.

        I would have done only 1 thing different. You know we have about 3 months waiting left. I would have broken it up in 2 or 3 parts & spread it out piece meal. 🙂

        P.S.

        I notice in the comments of your blog that somebody right off questioned Fabiani’s engineering credentials. I liked the way you handled that so Intelligently. Not playing their silly games.

      • bachcole

        For me, this interview goes beyond encouraging concerning what I was expecting. Fulvio is putting into my mind greater expectations than what I had before reading this interview.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Nice Job Mats, again.

      • pg

        Mats can you give us the backstory of how did this interview get done?
        Who ask who, where was it made, were there any vetoes on any particular topics/questions, did Fabiani have to have clearence by the company/Rossi?

        Thank you for anything you can say.
        pg

        • Pg, I had thought about this interview myself for some time, but was also encouraged by Alex Passi who made the translation of my book from English into Italian. So I contacted Fabiani and he said yes. The interview was done via Skype. We agreed that Fabiani would read through the text before publishing to check it against his NDAs. That is not a common use in journalism, but I thought it was fair since he’s not a manager, and in the end he only suggested minor changes of no practical importance.

          • pg

            Thank you again.

  • Seems To me that, The mining of the asteroids is only 20 years away.
    Here we go Steam/Stirling powered cars 10 years away.
    Fresh water for every one soon.

  • Seems To me that, The mining of the asteroids is only 20 years away.
    Here we go Steam/Stirling powered cars 10 years away.
    Fresh water for every one soon.

  • Axil Axil

    Any one man no matter how ingenious can’t break through the paradyn barrier to get his ideas into everyday life. Neither Tesla or Edison could do it own their own. They both were pawns in the great game of the 20th century. It took the power, money, greed, and business savvy of J. P. Morgan to setup the first great electrical company, General Electric, which spread the new electrical revolution around the world.

    Morgan got the patents for the alternating current technology from testa for a pittance and tesla died a pauper.The board of Edison General Electric decided to adopt AC power, and dropped Edison’s name; the company was now called “General Electric.” Edison was out of the game. He would refuse to set foot in any General Electric plants for the next 30 years, but his ability to reinvent himself matched his scientific prowess. Edison had to let his great inventions of his early life go, taken away from him by others. But in the second half of his life he would invent the first motion picture camera, improve his phonograph, and become America’s first entertainment mogul. “People will forget,” he stated with typical bravado, “that my name ever was connected with anything electrical.”

    The job that will be most important will be left to the money men that Rossi is working for. These men will do battle with the powers that be for the future of humankind If they are smart enough, greedy enough, powerful enough, and savvy enough to get LENR into our lives, then Rossi’s work and his name will not be forgotten like so many other betrayed men of genius down through the years.

    • GreenWin

      As I have at times written for a living I think it only right and fair to credit Axil’s source for portions of this comment: PBS’ “American Experience – Edison’s Miracle of Light,” produced by Boston’s excellent WGBH Public Television station.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/introduction/light-introduction/

    • mike wolf

      Hey as long as “the powers that be” can put a meter on it, then Rossi’s tech is safe. That is what Mills intends to do. If Rossi doesn’t, expect Mills’ route to be the darling of the establishment. I am afraid that is what may happen in the next 5 years. I bought the rest of the domains for Mills’ new company as they only bought brilliantlightpower.com I figure if Rossi makes it, we can get it. If Mills’ is the guy, we can’t get our hands on it, but I’ll have those domains to cash in on at least. 🙂

  • Axil Axil

    Any one man no matter how ingenious can’t break through the paradigm barrier to get his ideas into everyday life. Neither Tesla or Edison could do it own their own. They both were pawns in the great game of the 20th century. It took the power, money, greed, and business savvy of J. P. Morgan to setup the first great electrical company, General Electric, which spread the new electrical revolution around the world.

    Morgan got the patents for the alternating current technology from Testa for a pittance and Tesla died a pauper.The board of Edison General Electric decided to adopt AC power, and dropped Edison’s name; the company was now called “General Electric.” Edison was then out of the game. He would refuse to set foot in any General Electric plants for the next 30 years, but his ability to reinvent himself matched his scientific prowess. Edison had to let the great inventions of his early life go, taken away from him by others. But in the second half of his life he would invent the first motion picture camera, improve his phonograph, and become America’s first entertainment mogul. “People will forget,” he stated with typical bravado, “that my name ever was connected with anything electrical.”

    The job that will be most important will be left to the money men that Rossi is working for. These men will do battle with the powers that be for the future of humankind. If they are smart enough, greedy enough, powerful enough, and savvy enough to get LENR into our lives, then Rossi’s work and his name will not be forgotten like so many other betrayed men of genius down through the years.

    • Old_Skeptical

      Thoughtful respectful,historical. Nicely put and thank you.

    • GreenWin

      As I have at times written for a living I think it only right and fair to credit Axil’s source for portions of this comment: PBS’ “American Experience – Edison’s Miracle of Light,” produced by Boston’s excellent WGBH Public Television station.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/introduction/light-introduction/

    • mike wolf

      Hey as long as “the powers that be” can put a meter on it, then Rossi’s tech is safe. That is what Mills intends to do. If Rossi doesn’t, expect Mills’ route to be the darling of the establishment. I am afraid that is what may happen in the next 5 years. I bought the rest of the domains for Mills’ new company as they only bought brilliantlightpower.com I figure if Rossi makes it, we can get it. If Mills’ is the guy, we can’t get our hands on it, but I’ll have those domains to cash in on at least. 🙂

  • Wow! 😉

    • Omega Z

      Excellent Mats. Just Excellent…

      Interestingly, An interview of Fabiani has weighed heavily on my mind for better then a week. I actually considered asking Frank to look into the possibilty. Incidently, I had you in mind for the task.

      Absolutely nothing against Frank. Frank does a fantastic job with ECW. I was just thinking that with your history(You & Fabiani have associates in common) that you had the best chance of arranging such an opportunity.

      I would have done only 1 thing different. You know we have about 3 months waiting left. I would have broken it up in 2 or 3 parts & spread it out piece meal. 🙂

      P.S.

      I notice in the comments of your blog that somebody right off questioned Fabiani’s engineering credentials. I liked the way you handled that so Intelligently. Not playing their silly games.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Nice Job Mats, again.

      • LION

        A BIG THANK YOU to Mats Lewan for this interview with Fabiani. I found this video on youtube for the first time today, ENJOY—–https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et39OA2DYXE#t=38

        • f sedei

          To gain entrance, the door first must be opened. Martin opened the door;Andrea gained entrance to a new world yet to be fully recognized. Two main heroes of the new energy world.

    • pg

      Mats can you give us the backstory of how did this interview get done?
      Who ask who, where was it made, were there any vetoes on any particular topics/questions, did Fabiani have to have clearence by the company/Rossi?

      Thank you for anything you can say.
      pg

      • Pg, I had thought about this interview myself for some time, but was also encouraged by Alex Passi who made the translation of my book from English into Italian. So I contacted Fabiani and he said yes. The interview was done via Skype. We agreed that Fabiani would read through the text before publishing to check it against his NDAs. That is not a common use in journalism, but I thought it was fair since he’s not a manager, and in the end he only suggested minor changes of no practical importance.

        • pg

          Thank you again.

  • bachcole

    OK, so now I have read the whole interview. Given that I already believe Rossi, I am definitely blown away. This is so freaking encouraging. I don’t want some sputtering vehicle that goes 2 miles per hour: “Yeah, Otto, you have an internal combustion engine that pushes a vehicle around. That’s really great. Perhaps we’ll call it an Ottomobile. Get it? Automobile. Yeah. Come back when you have something that actually works.”

  • James Rice

    Hopefully MFMP and other replicators will focus on (electromagnetic) excitation of the fuel, now that Fabiani has revealed it’s key role.

    • Omega Z

      Actually James, MFMP and other replicators Should focus on creating excess heat 1st. One needs an effect to excite 1st, otherwise, you would have no idea if your electromagnetic excitation was working or not.

      • Brent Buckner

        I agree. From the peanut gallery, I’d be happier to see MFMP and other replicators shrink their measurement error bars such that they could be confident of having a significant result if they produce a COP of 2, in line with what Rossi indicated he was “originally” getting (per http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/11/15/rossi-e-cat-replicators-work-matches-his-early-work/ ).

        • Agaricus

          ‘Stubborness’ only partially describes the antics of the cancer industry. If you have a spare moment, follow a few Google links to the search term, gc-MAF (ignoring entries in rationalwiki, quackwatch, sciencebasedmedicine and the rest of the troll sites, obviously).

  • James Rice

    Hopefully MFMP and other replicators will focus on (electromagnetic) excitation of the fuel, now that Fabiani has revealed it’s key role.

    • Omega Z

      Actually James, MFMP and other replicators Should focus on creating excess heat 1st. One needs an effect to excite 1st, otherwise, you would have no idea if your electromagnetic excitation was working or not.

    • Toussaint

      About time too

  • We should all be praying this technology is revealed as soon as possible. The bank oligarchs have turned the middle east into a potential nuclear end game. Fame & fortune will be of little value if that occurs.

    • orsobubu

      I agree on hopes about the revelations of the technology, don’t agree on hopes about the crisis. If LENRs application result in less money to be made, this implies deeper future economic crisis, since this is the outcome when markets shrink. If the result is more money, this implies more workers’ exploitation, more fame and fortunes to be divided and conquered by imperialistic marauders. Only ways out: capitalistic planetary expansion or a communist revolution.

  • Roger Barker

    Wow, an amazing interview with Faviani! Answers lots of questions that weren’t clear. This is
    what I’ve been waiting for for quite some time. I really like the Blade Runner reference too!

    A skeptic will say there isn’t enough info in this interview. Don’t care. These morons will be left
    behind. This interview further confirms what’s happening behind Rossi’s closed doors and it’s all
    so fascinating! I love the way Rossi comes up with ideas and then bins them. No doubt some
    hairy moments when they do this type of stuff but he is a true genius at work. Rossi will deliver
    and when he does, those who have doubted will be the laughing stock. I’ll very much enjoy this
    juicy moment

    • I was detecting Rossi: “difficult to work with” from Fabiani but it sounds like the benefits of the interesting work and Rossi’s interesting ideas far outweigh difficulties of working with Rossi for Fabiani.

  • Bob

    I find the previous post about the 1MW heater going on sale in about a year if the F9 is positive and the following statement in this interview “Unless nothing unexpected happens, the trial, which is controlled by a major independent third party certification institute, should be concluded by February or March 2016, and the results will then be presented.” extremely interesting.
    .
    Either the government is much more involved than we know or there will be disappointment about sales and published test results.
    .
    I have been involved in a number of “certifications” ranging from simple fire burn ratings to more complex systems such as overhead lifts. To my experience, one does not get “certification” to sell a product. One gets a product certified to a published and accepted standard, stating that the product meets this standard and thus by implication, safe to sell.
    .
    Here is a link to AHRI certification protocol for residential water heaters.
    http://www.ahrinet.org/App_Content/ahri/files/Certification/OM%20pdfs/RWH_OM.pdf
    .
    Here is a link to the UL (Underwriters Labratory) testing standards.
    https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/ul.html
    .
    These are only two examples, but I believe they convey a point. Neither has a standard for a nuclear powered water heater nor a LENR powered water heater nor a Cold Fusion powered water heater. (all one and theh same to some, impossible to others) There simply is no published and recognized certification protocol to get the eCat certified to! Not at this time. While I have searched some, I could not find one. Perhaps someone else has.
    .
    My point of interest here is that there can be no certification until there is a published standard to certify to. One does not certify to a general “hot water heater”. So when Rossi posted that sales could start in 1 year and Mr. Fabiani stated that a major third party certification institute was involved, I found it quite interesting.
    .
    SRI might sign on to conduct experiments and test COP. SRI does not certify. UL does not do experimentation and it ONLY validates to a published certification standard. If there is no certification standard, I am positive that UL will not be involved. (At least with my conversing with my contact at UL that I have used for other certification projects.) They do not develop the standards, they only test to them. So who could this third party certification institute be? It will be quite interesting to find out and what standard they are testing to.
    .
    There is no law that one cannot sell an industrial heater that is not certified to some standard. There are local ordinances (laws) that prohibit installation that is not to certified standards or equipment that does not meet some listed standard. Not all locations have these laws /ordinances. However, you will not sell many heaters if they are not certified to a published and approved standard. (I.E. See the UL list. )
    .
    So it is very interesting to hear these statements. Perhaps the certification protocol and standard is being written during this test. However this is unlikely as these standards are overseen / controlled by either the federal government or governing bodies such as ASTME, ANSI or ISO. For them to be involved, I do not believe they would allow any NDA’s. There sole purpose is to establish and distribute the certifications. My limited experience is that they will not accept NDA’s to any great extent that tie their hands. The length of time to have a standard drawn up, submitted and approved can be very long. For something involving nuclear processes, especially one that is not fully understood, will take a very long time.
    .
    So another mystery in this ongoing saga and the complexities of those involved. Brillioun states who their agency to confirm their product is… SRI. BlackLIght has listed various sources of confirmation. Rossi at this time has elected to remain silent. (No customer could have a NDA preventing disclosure of information for his own invention, only name and location of the customer, so it is his decision and rightfully his to freely make.)
    .
    Even if this test proves positive, we will not see a commercially available LENR reactor for quite some time. I do not see the certification protocols in place. They can be created, but for a “There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine” type of new device, it will not come quickly. Even if I want it to!

    .
    I am glad Mr. Fabiani did the interview. It is another positive piece of evidence. However, it is like reading a mystery novel and new pieces of evidence that do not seem to fit together only increase the intrigue. Once this story breaks public, I look forward to purchasing Matts Lewans book on the entire story. It surely will be a prize winner as he may have to do a “Sherlock Holmes” imitation on all the strange and mysterious pieces to this puzzle!
    .
    We continue to wait!

    • Axil Axil

      The ecat is not an nuclear powered water heater nor a LENR powered water heater nor a Cold Fusion powered water heater, it is an electrically powered water heater.

      • Bob

        I need to correct my above statement in that UL does develop standards protocol and they use other protocols as well. What I meant to say was that UL does not certify products to “sell” and they test only to existing standards. I believe for them to develop a standard, there has to be a governing establishment that formulates the requirements. I.E. UL does not establish what the law allows nor do they govern by position. They do develop a UL test protocol, but it is to the governing body’s requirements. A bit of clarification.
        .
        Axil, I do not believe that any testing agency would ever classify the eCat as an electric water heater. The control circuit may be electric (such is the case in some gas powered water heaters) but the heat comes from some unclassified nuclear process. It does not come from an electrical heater coil. (I guess some heat from the reactor excitation coil could be counted, but not for the majority of the released heat) Otherwise, a gas water heater could be called an electric water heater because some models require electricity to run the control circuits. (Many do not require electricity, but some models do have electrically controlled ignitors.)
        .
        If one “breaks down hydrogen”, it is a nuclear reaction as hydrogen does not chemically break down. If one breaks down molecules, my understanding that is a chemical reaction by definition and the data released so far, seems to show that the energy released by the eCat is far above any chemical reaction.
        .
        So if it is not a chemical reaction nor an electrical one, it must be nuclear or at least some unknown, unclassified energy source. Neither which would fall under gas or electric powered water heaters! Again, I doubt that UL would or could certify such to an existing standard. A fuel cell car is an electric car, but it is certain that it must pass different tests than a “simple” battery powered car. The eCat comparison to electric or gas water heaters would be similar.
        (In my opinion)

        • Axil Axil

          During the time of Edison and Tesla, nobody understood what electricity was and yet the light bulb was allowed in the home, and the generator, and electrical transmission were all patented and deployed. Nobody will understand what LENR is for 100 years. It can’t be nuclear because science says that is impossible. It can’t be nuclear because it leaves no nuclear byproducts. You are making assumptions that are not even valid.

          I myself believe that LENR is both dark matter and the source of dark energy.

      • mike wolf

        That is why the acronym should be more vague. Like LENR should be something like, “Low Energy Nano Reactions”, or “Limited Energy Nano Reactions” To ease peoples’ concerns about safety.

    • TomR

      If the USA drags their feet on this and does not fast track it, China and others will leap frog us and we will wonder what happened. Then the back stabbing and blame game will flare worse than anything we have seen before.

    • Omega Z

      UL certification for home E-cats on Hold. Specifically due to your argument. There are no standards by which to certify it for use among the general public.

      Note that (UL)-Underwriters Labratory does operate under NDA upon request & is maintained until a product has been certified. This NDA also applies within the (UL) agency.(No gossip)

      It should also be noted that (UL) is relatively small & most testing is done by external entities. They do several million certifications yearly. When they recieve the test results, should it pass, the UL merely signs off on it & provides the official certificate.

      Industrial use is different as Technical personnel are present.
      It’s a fact, Rossi’s original Lt-cat was certified as safe for Industrial use. As Rossi was denigrated over this, the SGS allowed Rossi to publish said certification in his defense.

      http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/EFA-rep-1107.pdf

      This pretty much refutes the rest of your post. Certification is obtainable. It is safe for Industrial use with skilled personnel present. No conclusive theory is required. And even nuclear does not stop certification for industrial use.

      There are a great many(1000’s) things nuclear/radioactive in use all over the U.S. at any given moment. It merely requires a trained technician present. (Not smoke detectors but things deemed quite dangerous if misused.)

      Is there a ready market for this low grade industrial heat. There’s over 600,000 “registered” users of low grade industrial heat in the U.S. alone. This is users, not the number of systems in use which likely is much higher.

      As to home units. They will depend on the safety data obtained from the industrial systems. The pilot plant itself will provide 34K hours & Millions of data points. It wont require many systems long to provide the necessary data. One maybe 2 years will provide the necessary data.

    • LuFong

      “There is no law that one cannot sell an industrial heater that is not
      certified to some standard. There are local ordinances (laws) that
      prohibit installation that is not to certified standards or equipment
      that does not meet some listed standard.”

      Exactly. There is nothing really preventing Rossi/IH from installing Home E-Cats in pilot homes and running them. I would gladly volunteer my house in fact (and implicitly sign away any home insurance coverage if something were to happen). I got banned from JONP years ago after I pointed this out to Rossi.

      • Omega Z

        You can “sign away” whatever you want.
        Such legal maneuvers do not stand up in court.
        Rossi/IH would still be 100% liable should something go wrong.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          I guess he could sign an agreement with IH which frees IH from liability.

          But Rossi doesn’t seem to want pilot users, because he wants to keep it close to chest as long as he can. Then make a massive market entry. I don’t know if it’s the best strategy, but it seems to be the one that he has chosen.

          • Omega Z

            The pilot plant will have exposed most issues that will be corrected beforehand, but there will obviously be more issues yet to be discovered.

            I would venture a guess that they want to position themselves to ramp up very quickly, But, actually start out slowly.

  • Bob

    I find the previous post about the 1MW heater going on sale in about a year if the F9 is positive and the following statement in this interview “Unless nothing unexpected happens, the trial, which is controlled by a major independent third party certification institute, should be concluded by February or March 2016, and the results will then be presented.” extremely interesting.
    .
    Either the government is much more involved than we know or there will be disappointment about sales and published test results.
    .
    I have been involved in a number of “certifications” ranging from simple fire burn ratings to more complex systems such as overhead lifts. To my experience, one does not get “certification” to sell a product. One gets a product certified to a published and accepted standard, stating that the product meets this standard and thus by implication, safe to sell.
    .
    Here is a link to AHRI certification protocol for residential water heaters.
    http://www.ahrinet.org/App_Content/ahri/files/Certification/OM%20pdfs/RWH_OM.pdf
    .
    Here is a link to the UL (Underwriters Labratory) testing standards.
    https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/ul.html
    .
    These are only two examples, but I believe they convey a point. Neither has a standard for a nuclear powered water heater nor a LENR powered water heater nor a Cold Fusion powered water heater. (all one and theh same to some, impossible to others) There simply is no published and recognized certification protocol to get the eCat certified to! Not at this time. While I have searched some, I could not find one. Perhaps someone else has.
    .
    My point of interest here is that there can be no certification until there is a published standard to certify to. One does not certify to a general “hot water heater”. So when Rossi posted that sales could start in 1 year and Mr. Fabiani stated that a major third party certification institute was involved, I found it quite interesting.
    .
    SRI might sign on to conduct experiments and test COP. SRI does not certify. UL does not do experimentation and it ONLY validates to a published certification standard. If there is no certification standard, I am positive that UL will not be involved. (At least with my conversing with my contact at UL that I have used for other certification projects.) They do not develop the standards, they only test to them. So who could this third party certification institute be? It will be quite interesting to find out and what standard they are testing to.
    .
    There is no law that one cannot sell an industrial heater that is not certified to some standard. There are local ordinances (laws) that prohibit installation that is not to certified standards or equipment that does not meet some listed standard. Not all locations have these laws /ordinances. However, you will not sell many heaters if they are not certified to a published and approved standard. (I.E. See the UL list. )
    .
    So it is very interesting to hear these statements. Perhaps the certification protocol and standard is being written during this test. However this is unlikely as these standards are overseen / controlled by either the federal government or governing bodies such as ASTME, ANSI or ISO. For them to be involved, I do not believe they would allow any NDA’s. There sole purpose is to establish and distribute the certifications. My limited experience is that they will not accept NDA’s to any great extent that tie their hands. The length of time to have a standard drawn up, submitted and approved can be very long. For something involving nuclear processes, especially one that is not fully understood, will take a very long time.
    .
    So another mystery in this ongoing saga and the complexities of those involved. Brillioun states who their agency to confirm their product is… SRI. BlackLIght has listed various sources of confirmation. Rossi at this time has elected to remain silent. (No customer could have a NDA preventing disclosure of information for his own invention, only name and location of the customer, so it is his decision and rightfully his to freely make.)
    .
    Even if this test proves positive, we will not see a commercially available LENR reactor for quite some time. I do not see the certification protocols in place. They can be created, but for a “There is nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine” type of new device, it will not come quickly. Even if I want it to!

    .
    I am glad Mr. Fabiani did the interview. It is another positive piece of evidence. However, it is like reading a mystery novel and new pieces of evidence that do not seem to fit together only increase the intrigue. Once this story breaks public, I look forward to purchasing Matts Lewans book on the entire story. It surely will be a prize winner as he may have to do a “Sherlock Holmes” imitation on all the strange and mysterious pieces to this puzzle!
    .
    We continue to wait!

    • Axil Axil

      The ecat is not an nuclear powered water heater nor a LENR powered water heater nor a Cold Fusion powered water heater, it is an electrically powered water heater.

      Another more promising option is a catalytic heater. This is a type of heater that relies on catalyzed chemical reactions to break down molecules and produce heat.

      The E-Cat uses a nickel catalyst to break down hydrogen to produce heat. This catalytic heater approach is how Rossi got his patent.

      • Bob

        I need to correct my above statement in that UL does develop standards protocol and they use other protocols as well. What I meant to say was that UL does not certify products to “sell” and they test only to existing standards. I believe for them to develop a standard, there has to be a governing establishment that formulates the requirements. I.E. UL does not establish what the law allows nor do they govern by position. They do develop a UL test protocol, but it is to the governing body’s requirements. A bit of clarification.
        .
        Axil, I do not believe that any testing agency would ever classify the eCat as an electric water heater. The control circuit may be electric (such is the case in some gas powered water heaters) but the heat comes from some unclassified nuclear process. It does not come from an electrical heater coil. (I guess some heat from the reactor excitation coil could be counted, but not for the majority of the released heat) Otherwise, a gas water heater could be called an electric water heater because some models require electricity to run the control circuits. (Many do not require electricity, but some models do have electrically controlled ignitors.)
        .
        If one “breaks down hydrogen”, it is a nuclear reaction as hydrogen does not chemically break down. If one breaks down molecules, my understanding that is a chemical reaction by definition and the data released so far, seems to show that the energy released by the eCat is far above any chemical reaction.
        .
        So if it is not a chemical reaction nor an electrical one, it must be nuclear or at least some unknown, unclassified energy source. Neither which would fall under gas or electric powered water heaters! Again, I doubt that UL would or could certify such to an existing standard. A fuel cell car is an electric car, but it is certain that it must pass different tests than a “simple” battery powered car. The eCat comparison to electric or gas water heaters would be similar.
        (In my opinion)

        • Axil Axil

          During the time of Edison and Tesla, nobody understood what electricity was and yet the light bulb was allowed in the home, and the generator, and electrical transmission were all patented and deployed. Nobody will understand what LENR is for 100 years. It can’t be nuclear because science says that is impossible. It can’t be nuclear because it leaves no nuclear byproducts. You are making assumptions that are not even valid.

          I myself believe that the SPP(most here call it the NAE) is both dark matter and the source of dark energy.

      • john M

        I expect some eyebrows to raise when the EnergyGuide sticker Estimated Yearly Operating Cost is $50 instead of $500.

      • mike wolf

        That is why the acronym should be more vague. Like LENR should be something like, “Low Energy Nano Reactions”, or “Limited Energy Nano Reactions” To ease peoples’ concerns about safety.

    • TomR

      If the USA drags their feet on this and does not fast track it, China and others will leap frog us and we will wonder what happened. Then the back stabbing and blame game will flare worse than anything we have seen before.

      • bachcole

        I think that in this case we need all of the back stabbing and blame gaming that we can get. There are hundreds of thousands of people dying every year thanks to only the stubbornness of the cancer monopoly, to say nothing of the rest of health care.

        • ‘Stubborness’ only partially describes the antics of the cancer industry. If you have a spare moment, follow a few Google links to the search term, gc-MAF (ignoring entries in rationalwiki, quackwatch, sciencebasedmedicine and the rest of the troll sites, obviously).

    • Omega Z

      UL certification for home E-cats on Hold. Specifically due to your argument. There are no standards by which to certify it for use among the general public.

      Note that (UL)-Underwriters Labratory does operate under NDA upon request & is maintained until a product has been certified. This NDA also applies within the (UL) agency.(No gossip)

      It should also be noted that (UL) is relatively small & most testing is done by external entities. They do several million certifications yearly. When they recieve the test results, should it pass, the UL merely signs off on it & provides the official certificate.

      Industrial use is different as Technical personnel are present.
      It’s a fact, Rossi’s original Lt-cat was certified as safe for Industrial use. As Rossi was denigrated over this, the SGS allowed Rossi to publish said certification in his defense.

      http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/EFA-rep-1107.pdf

      This pretty much refutes the rest of your post. Certification is obtainable. It is safe for Industrial use with skilled personnel present. No conclusive theory is required. And even nuclear does not stop certification for industrial use.

      There are a great many(1000’s) things nuclear/radioactive in use all over the U.S. at any given moment. It merely requires a trained technician present. (Not smoke detectors but things deemed quite dangerous if misused.)

      Is there a ready market for this low grade industrial heat. There’s over 600,000 “registered” users of low grade industrial heat in the U.S. alone. This is users, not the number of systems in use which likely is much higher.

      As to home units. They will depend on the safety data obtained from the industrial systems. The pilot plant itself will provide 34K hours & Millions of data points. It wont require many systems long to provide the necessary data. One maybe 2 years will provide the necessary data.

  • R101

    There’s some good info right there.

    • Axil Axil

      lay what you are thinking out for us.

  • TomR

    I think the interview was done to let some people in positions of being able to fast track the certifications that they need to do it soon or it might be done somewhere else. I think it was the right thing to do. I know it is hard for some people to get a backbone but now is the time for it to happen. It might mean they might have to have 24/7 protection for a few months but it will pay off in the end for the way they are thought of in the future.

    • TomR

      I think you might be addressing your comment to me Axil Axil. I feel that production is going to start soon after the 1 year test is done. It will probably happen in the countries that have certified the E-Cats. I think we all can name a few that do not have to be afraid of the people that work behind the elected officials. In the USA there is probably only one person that has the power to get the certification done and he needs to do this.

      • Omega Z

        TomR

        There are People in positions of power within the U.S. Government that are & have been all over this for long while. They just don’t talk about it.

        Unknown to most, The U.S. provides research funding all over the world. Russia’s own Tokamak project, China’s research park project, Italy’s Enea along with Mitsubishi & Toyota LENR research were all partly funded by U.S. tax payers. With direct involvement of the U.S. Government in one form or another.

        I recall the Mitsubishi LENR test, Someone from NRL or DOD went to examine it. It was proclaimed that he went there in an unofficial capacity. Seriously, Does anyone think a civilian can walk into another countries research facilty & state what they must do. As far as that goes, anyone of any capacity doing that in a foriegn country unless they are directly involved. We have to realities in 1 world. That known by the general populace & the one in the shadows.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Sounds like normal multilateral research collaboration. When there is a common project, funding comes from different countries. When it’s time to evaluate, they typically ask experts from other countries as well. Science is international, the idea is to use best experts no matter where they come from.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, but the general public usually doesn’t know this. Or that even when nations are at odds, these things continue. The U.S. is also very deceptive about this among many other things. Note the denial that the U.S. visitor to Mitsubishi was there officially, but merely a civilian there of his own accord and this does not fit the situation.

        • Omega Z

          Hagelstein is tenured & can get away with this on the side.

          MIT does not support it or any LENR research on it’s own.

          • fact police

            The quotation was about research *at* a university, which means the university provides infrastructure and salary support. It’s unlikely Miley gets any additional support from his university, or that Missouri supports SKINR beyond infrastructure and salary, or for that matter that the Japanese universities support the Japanese efforts beyond this level.

          • James Rubey

            Many years ago when Cold Fusion was first announced I heard from someone I totally trust who had great knowledge of physics how real it was. So many in our society scientists and the public saw it as such a huge miracle they didn’t research it with the sincerity that they would have given. If it would have only been a much smaller miraculous scientific discovery. In a sense the bias of so many observers expecting it to be massively too good to be true (certain it was snake oil), caused them to not pay adequate attention when they found things that supported LENR but rather labeled them a mistake in measuring the energy. Much as double blind experiments try to eliminate this bias by not letting the researches distort the results, because they have a strong opinion of what they will find. We see that bias prior to even seeing the research and proof, with our USA Patent Office refusing to even consider patents if they use the term LENR or Cold Fusion.

    • I don’t believe there were any motives from IH to do the interview, since I contacted Fabiani myself and he responded immediately. I also had a clear impression that Fabiani decided on his own whether to do the interview or not, and what to say or not. Honestly, I don’t think anybody else involved, at any level, would have talked so open heartedly about their experiences as Fabiani did to me.

  • TomR

    I think the interview was done to let some people in positions of being able to fast track the certifications that they need to do it soon or it might be done somewhere else. I think it was the right thing to do. I know it is hard for some people to get a backbone but now is the time for it to happen. It might mean they might have to have 24/7 protection for a few months but it will pay off in the end for the way they are thought of in the future.

    • TomR

      I think you might be addressing your comment to me Axil Axil. I feel that production is going to start soon after the 1 year test is done. It will probably happen in the countries that have certified the E-Cats. I think we all can name a few that do not have to be afraid of the people that work behind the elected officials. In the USA there is probably only one person that has the power to get the certification done and he needs to do this.

      • Omega Z

        TomR

        There are People in positions of power within the U.S. Government that are & have been all over this for long while. They just don’t talk about it.

        Unknown to most, The U.S. provides research funding all over the world. Russia’s own Tokamak project, China’s research park project, Italy’s Enea along with Mitsubishi & Toyota LENR research were all partly funded by U.S. tax payers. With direct involvement of the U.S. Government in one form or another.

        I recall the Mitsubishi LENR test, Someone from NRL or DOD went to examine it. It was proclaimed that he went there in an unofficial capacity. Seriously, Does anyone think a civilian can walk into another countries research facilty & state what they must do. As far as that goes, anyone of any capacity doing that in a foriegn country unless they are directly involved. We have to realities in 1 world. That known by the general populace & the one in the shadows.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Sounds like normal multilateral research collaboration. When there is a common project, funding comes from different countries. When it’s time to evaluate, they typically ask experts from other countries as well. Science is international, the idea is to use best experts no matter where they come from.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, but the general public usually doesn’t know this. Or that even when nations are at odds, these things continue. The U.S. is also very deceptive about this among many other things. Note the denial that the U.S. visitor to Mitsubishi was there officially, but merely a civilian there of his own accord and this does not fit the situation.

    • I don’t believe there were any motives from IH to do the interview, since I contacted Fabiani myself and he responded immediately. I also had a clear impression that Fabiani decided on his own whether to do the interview or not, and what to say or not. Honestly, I don’t think anybody else involved, at any level, would have talked so open heartedly about their experiences as Fabiani did to me.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Once the IP is secure enough, I think it would be a good idea to have young people working on this as apprentices. They need some initial course correction in there lives so that they will be able to think straight as adults and have a bright future.
    http://i2.wp.com/www.ongoingworlds.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/df96704a568d5b24c1f5d94557dd4305.jpg?resize=650%2C444
    Happy Thanksgiving

    • Alan DeAngelis

      …in their lives…
      yeah, need some young people to proofread my stuff.

      • Omega Z

        I proofread before I post. Seriously.
        No Seriously, I do. At least to times…

        • bachcole

          “to times” as in “When I post to the New York Times”, but not for the rest of us; we can just figure out for ourselves what you meant.

          Before the Internet, the responsibility for understanding lay with the writer. Since the advent of the Internet, the responsibility for understanding has shifted to a large extent to the reader, IMHO. (:->)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            “When a Savonian speaks, responsibility is at the listener.” (A Finnish proverb. Savo is a province in Funland.)

    • Pekka Janhunen

      OT: Your picture shows a rotating space habitat, I think. I recently made some little research of them. A habitat like that (I mean a cylinder without low roofs) contains a lot of air which needs a surprisingly large amount of nitrogen. Nitrogen is not very abundant on asteroids. It is however abundant on Titan, Triton and Kuiper belt, if one is prepared to go that far.

      Pictures of New Horizon (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-plutos-hazy-sky-nitrogen-ice-glaciers-creep/) showing Pluto’s nitrogen glaciers are stunning from this point of view. That amount of nitrogen represents potential living surface area which is equivalent to a large number of Earths, habitable by trillions of people plus plants and animals, if used to fill the airspace of space habitats like in your picture.

      • Mats002

        That is the future for SHELL and BP et al. I can picture BN – British Nitrogen (yes they changed name 2025) projected on a nanocloud in space, visible already when you approach Uranus.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Once the IP is secure enough, I think it would be a good idea to have young people working on this as apprentices. They need some initial course correction in there lives so that they will be able to think straight as adults and have a bright future.
    http://i2.wp.com/www.ongoingworlds.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/df96704a568d5b24c1f5d94557dd4305.jpg?resize=650%2C444
    Happy Thanksgiving

    • Alan DeAngelis

      …in their lives…
      yeah, need some young people to proofread my stuff.

      • Omega Z

        I proofread before I post. Seriously.
        No Seriously, I do. At least to times…

        • bachcole

          “to times” as in “When I post to the New York Times”, but not for the rest of us; we can just figure out for ourselves what you meant.

          Before the Internet, the responsibility for understanding lay with the writer. Since the advent of the Internet, the responsibility for understanding has shifted to a large extent to the reader, IMHO. (:->)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            “When a Savonian speaks, responsibility is at the listener.” (A Finnish proverb. Savo is a province in Funland.)

    • Pekka Janhunen

      OT: Your picture shows a rotating space habitat, I think. I recently made some little research of them. A habitat like that (I mean a cylinder without low roofs) contains a lot of air which needs a surprisingly large amount of nitrogen. Nitrogen is not very abundant on asteroids. It is however abundant on Titan, Triton and Kuiper belt, if one is prepared to go that far.

      Pictures of New Horizon (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-plutos-hazy-sky-nitrogen-ice-glaciers-creep/) showing Pluto’s nitrogen glaciers are stunning from this point of view. That amount of nitrogen represents potential living surface area which is equivalent to a large number of Earths, habitable by trillions of people plus plants and animals, if used to fill the airspace of space habitats like in your picture.

      • Mats002

        That is the future for SHELL and BP et al. I can picture BN – British Nitrogen (yes they changed name 2025) projected on a nanocloud in space, visible already when you approach Uranus.

  • LION

    A BIG THANK YOU to Mats Lewan for this interview with Fabiani. I found this video on youtube for the first time today, ENJOY—–https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et39OA2DYXE#t=38

    • f sedei

      To gain entrance, the door first must be opened. Martin opened the door;Andrea gained entrance to a new world yet to be fully recognized. Two main heroes of the new energy world.

  • James Rubey

    Many years ago when Cold Fusion was first announced I heard from someone I totally trust who had great knowledge of physics how real it was. So many in our society scientists and the public saw it as such a huge miracle they didn’t research it with the sincerity that they would have given. If it would have only been a much smaller miraculous scientific discovery. In a sense the bias of so many observers expecting it to be massively too good to be true (certain it was snake oil), caused them to not pay adequate attention when they found things that supported LENR but rather labeled them a mistake in measuring the energy. Much as double blind experiments try to eliminate this bias by not letting the researches distort the results, because they have a strong opinion of what they will find. We see that bias prior to even seeing the research and proof, with our USA Patent Office refusing to even consider patents if they use the term LENR or Cold Fusion.

  • Mats002

    SETI is looking for intelligent civilisations in the galaxy. Type 3 civilisations are believed to harvest all the possible energy from their sun, this is named a Dyson sphere. But nothing like this is found yet – where do they hide? We know the answer, they use LENR of course.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I tend to agree, although if it is so that LENR+ always needs lithium then its availability might become some kind of an issue.

      (In fact, a type 3 civilisation uses the entire output of a galaxy; a Dyson sphere around every star so that the galaxy shines only in infrared. Such galaxies were not found in the study you linked. Individual Dyson spheres might still exist.)

    • Ted-X

      If they are advanced, they understand that multiplying the population exponentially does not make sense. They may be similar to us (Nordics and others?). There are various conspiracy theories. Some theories disappear together with their authors, so this are is quite unhealthy 🙁

      • Pekka Janhunen

        First sentence: I understand and agree. The rest, I didn’t get the point. Similar to Scandinavians in the sense that both understand that overpopulation is not a good idea (which is true in recent times, although not earlier)? Also I don’t understand what conspiracy theories have to do with this topic.

        • Chris the 2nd

          Nordics are a “type” of Alien people claim to see. Tall, blonde haired, thin and “striking” and of course Human like. Their existence is a conspiracy theory.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Oh, I see. Thanks, Chris2.

          • Jarea

            Aliens the new excuse to be racist!

          • GreenWin

            Why would aliens hate humans?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Indeed. Because fear=>hate, no fear=>no hate. No reason to.

          • Jarea

            No. I mean the people who says that are special because they have mixed alien dna code. That is stupid and racist at the same time.
            It is the new way to say i am better than you without being blamed for racist.

    • georgehants

      Mats, Agreed, if Cold Fusion holds the promise talked about on this page and another civilization is advanced enough not to hide it, as our science clowns have and do, then one may think that a Dyson sphere or similar would be an expensive waste.
      Add to that the Fact that science here knows virtually nothing and there are very likely many other direct energy sources beyond the incompetent Dogma preached by our closed-minded comedians.

      • Agaricus

        Imagine groups of Victorian scientists huddled around their largest brass telescope, looking for clouds of water crystals surrounding other stars, as evidence that the inhabitants use the advanced steam powered interplanetary ships they have predicted, on a vast scale.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Steam, blah. Real aliens have street lights, http://www.universetoday.com/90682/looking-for-the-city-lights-of-alien-civilizations/ . No one can afford those dark vision goggles except the military and they are ugly and heavy too. Good aliens don’t want to look ugly or military.

          Yes, one can imagine Victorian era scientists, or, if one doesn’t want to or know how to imagine, following the present ones is a reasonable substitute.

        • Mats002

          Well we seems to always look at universe from our own state-of-the-art knowledge. Why do we now talk about a holographic simulated universe? Because we just learned how to calculate n dimension simulations. What will we look for a hundred years from now?

          • GreenWin

            Indeed. AND sims are convenient to explain away the 96% of the “dark” universe we can neither see or measure — but consensus science insists is there!

            A century from now earth-bound terrestrials will collect license fees from alien anthropologists come to study the evolution of a primitive planet. Galactic “TV” will reap huge profits from multi-dimensional sitcoms based on silly human behaviours. Let’s not forget, “Earth Girls are Easy.”

    • Agaricus

      What would such inconceivable amounts of energy possibly be wanted for? This theory assumes a trajectory of continuous technological growth in ‘advanced’ alien cultures – an idea rooted in 20th century thinking where more must always be better.

      Isn’t it possible that other routes may be available to truly advanced civilisations, in which a deep understanding of the nature of reality makesrenders raw technological power redundant? Such civilisations, using more subtle ‘technologies’ to manipulate their surroundings would not leave any evidence understandable by far less advanced species.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, it seems again that great minds think alike, ha.

        • Agaricus

          So it seems, George! I just take much longer to say more or less the same thing.

      • georgehants

        Peter, Wonderful comment that I will not spoil by going further than as you know, pointing out that you are talking Heresy against the scientific priests.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yea, good analysis. If I were a technical alien, my community might live in artificial habitats in Oort cloud, powered by LENR. (I would hope that the local IH would find also some more common consumable isotopes besides litihium-7 and deuterium.) From there we would slowly migrate to nearby stars. It is feasible because Oort clouds of stars almost meet each other. We would spread because that increases tolerance to gamma ray bursts and supernovas, but we would spread selectively and sparingly to keep the communication delay matrix manageable. We would scale the community and use energy at such rate that the Oort cloud community can outlive the host star based on its available LENR fuel. We would have plans for how to survive the red giant phase (sunshields).

  • Mats002

    SETI is looking for intelligent civilizations in the galaxy. Type 3 civilizations are believed to harvest all the possible energy from their sun, this is named a Dyson sphere. But no sign of this is found yet – where do they hide? We know the answer, they use LENR of course.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/alien-supercivilizations-absent-from-100-000-nearby-galaxies/

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I tend to agree, although if it is so that LENR+ always needs lithium then its availability might become some kind of an issue.

      (In fact, a type 3 civilisation uses the entire output of a galaxy; a Dyson sphere around every star so that the galaxy shines only in infrared. Such galaxies were not found in the study you linked. Individual Dyson spheres might still exist.)

    • Ted-X

      If they are advanced, they understand that multiplying the population exponentially does not make sense. They may be similar to us (Nordics and others?). There are various conspiracy theories. Some theories disappear together with their authors, so this are is quite unhealthy 🙁

      • Pekka Janhunen

        First sentence: I understand and agree. The rest, I didn’t get the point. Similar to Scandinavians in the sense that both understand that overpopulation is not a good idea (which is true in recent times, although not earlier)? Also I don’t understand what conspiracy theories have to do with this topic.

        • Chris the 2nd

          Nordics are a “type” of Alien people claim to see. Tall, blonde haired, thin and “striking” and of course Human like. Their existence is a conspiracy theory.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Oh, I see. Thanks, Chris2.

          • Jarea

            Aliens …the new excuse to be racist!

          • GreenWin

            Why would aliens hate humans?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Indeed. Because fear=>hate, no fear=>no hate. No reason to.

          • Jarea

            No. I mean the people who says that are special because they have mixed alien dna code. That is stupid and racist at the same time.
            It is the new way to say i am better than you without being blamed for racist.

      • Koen van Dijk

        I think before people are starting to make all kinds of statements about overpopulation I think it is good to inform yourself about the topic. I think this video is a good start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA5BM7CE5-8

        • GreenWin

          Brilliant! Chimps are more accurate than educated Brits??? “Preconceived ideas” are the problem. BTW, not just Brits. Thanks in part to catastrophizing of Stanford’s Paul Erlich, Americans are equally misinformed on population.

          As with climate, catastrophe and fear is old school’s choice for social engineering.

          • It may be an old and time-worn technique, but it still seems to work beautifully, no matter how crudely and brazenly applied the fearmongering becomes. As a species we seem to find critical reasoning too much of a challenge – a failure that a few powerful psychopaths are only too happy to expoit.

          • georgehants

            Morning Peter
            From the earliest days the clever un-educated people would wave and cheer whichever invading army was passing through or staying.
            This group of people probably constitute 80% of any population, just wishing to get on with their lives, not caring who is in control as long as they are left in peace and who can blame them.
            The Romans where well aware of this and exploited it with great cleverness, never directly interfering in local religions for example, beyond banning human sacrifice.
            It is as you say the rich, powerful etc. that are mis-educated 2000 years later and no sign of things improving.
            Our democracy’s are, I think, little more than weekly disguised dictatorships by our psychologically disturbed controlling masters.
            How long will this open Internet last?

    • georgehants

      Mats, Agreed, if Cold Fusion holds the promise talked about on this page and another civilization is advanced enough not to hide it, as our science clowns have and do, then one may think that a Dyson sphere or similar would be an expensive waste.
      Add to that the Fact that science here knows virtually nothing and there are very likely many other direct energy sources beyond the incompetent Dogma preached by our closed-minded comedians.

      • Imagine a group of Victorian scientists huddled around their largest, shiniest brass telescope, looking for clouds of ice crystals and smoke surrounding other stars, as evidence that the inhabitants must use advanced steam powered interplanetary spaceships on a vast scale, just as they have predicted.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Steam, blah. Real aliens have street lights, http://www.universetoday.com/90682/looking-for-the-city-lights-of-alien-civilizations/ . No one can afford those dark vision goggles except the military and they are ugly and heavy too. Good aliens don’t want to look ugly or military.

          Yes, one can imagine Victorian era scientists, or, if one doesn’t want to or know how to imagine, following the present ones is a reasonable substitute.

        • Mats002

          Well we seems to always look at universe from our own state-of-the-art knowledge. Why do we now talk about a holographic simulated universe? Because we just learned how to calculate n dimension simulations. What will we look for a hundred years from now?

          • GreenWin

            Indeed. AND sims are convenient to explain away the 96% of the “dark” universe we can neither see or measure — but consensus science insists is there!

            A century from now earth-bound terrestrials will collect license fees from alien anthropologists come to study the evolution of a primitive planet. Galactic “TV” will reap huge profits from multi-dimensional sitcoms based on silly human behaviours. Let’s not forget, “Earth Girls are Easy.”

      • mike wolf

        Amen.

    • What would such inconceivable amounts of energy possibly be wanted for? This theory assumes a trajectory of unending technological growth, together with unlimited population expansion, in advanced alien cultures – an idea rooted in 20th century human thinking where more must always be better. Not only that, but as Mats002 points out in an earlier post, technology tends to become increasingly efficient, requiring progressively less energy rather than more, in order to achieve similar ends.

      But once every need of every individual within a culture has been met, populations have stabilised, all threats to survival have been countered, and scientific exploration has reached the limits of intellect of the species concerned – what would propel even further expansion and technological development? It seems to me that exploration might turn to the mind, rather than continuing to play with material ‘things’ or seeking ever more lebensraum.

      Isn’t it possible that other routes may be available to truly advanced civilisations, in which a deep understanding of the nature of reality renders raw technological power redundant? Such civilisations, using more subtle ‘technologies’ to manipulate their surroundings, or perhaps occupying parallel dimensions, would not leave any evidence understandable by far less advanced species.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, it seems again that great minds think alike, ha.

        • So it seems, George! I just take much longer to say more or less the same thing.

      • georgehants

        Peter, Wonderful comment that I will not spoil by going further than as you know, pointing out that you are talking Heresy against the scientific holy priests.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yea, good analysis. If I were a technical alien, my community might live in artificial habitats in Oort cloud, powered by LENR. (I would hope that the local IH would find also some more common consumable isotopes besides litihium-7 and deuterium.) From there we would slowly migrate to nearby stars. It is feasible because Oort clouds of stars almost meet each other. We would spread because that increases tolerance to gamma ray bursts and supernovas, but we would spread selectively and sparingly to keep the communication delay matrix manageable. We would scale the community and use energy at such rate that the Oort cloud community can outlive the host star based on its available LENR fuel. We would have plans for how to survive the red giant phase (sunshields).

      • mike wolf

        Well, in the meantime LENR will suffice. Heck people have trouble believing that let alone telekinetic time travel.

  • GreenWin

    Brilliant! Chimps are more accurate than educated Brits??? “Preconceived ideas” are the problem. BTW, not just Brits. Thanks in part to catastrophizing of Stanford’s Paul Erlich, Americans are equally misinformed on population.

    As with climate, catastrophe and fear is old school’s choice for social engineering.

    • Agaricus

      It may be an old and time-worn technique, but it still seems to work beautifully, no matter how crudely and brazenly applied the fearmongering becomes. As a species we seem to find critical reasoning too much of a challenge – a failure that a few powerful psychopaths are only too happy to expoit.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter
        From the earliest days the clever un-educated people would wave and cheer whichever invading army was passing through or staying.
        This group of people probably constitute 80% of any population, just wishing to get on with their lives, not caring who is in control as long as they are left in peace and who can blame them.
        The Romans where well aware of this and exploited it with great cleverness, never directly interfering in local religions for example, beyond banning human sacrifice.
        It is as you say the rich, powerful etc. that are mis-educated 2000 years later and no sign of things improving.
        How long will this open Internet last?

  • Eyedoc

    I am a bit concerned that AR is still not sharing important details ( ie the fuel mix ) with his closest team, I worry this makes him more susceptible to a ‘disappearance’ , and LENR with him.

    • bachcole

      Good insight, but I would think that Rossi would have enough sense to keep save records of each and every experiment. Or Darden would have the good sense to tell him to do so.

    • Sanjeev

      I remember that he has said in past that his partners were able to produce an E-cat without his help.

    • Barney Holmes

      But that could have been something introduced into the discussion by the NDI ? Anyway if he really has “it” don’t you think there are multiple mechanisms put in place in case of (God forbid) death ? Dossiers in bank deposit boxes, etc, etc … at least I hope they’re are.

  • Eyedoc

    I am a bit concerned that AR is still not sharing important details ( ie the fuel mix ) with his closest team, I worry this makes him more susceptible to a ‘disappearance’ , and LENR with him.

    • bachcole

      Good insight, but I would think that Rossi would have enough sense to keep save records of each and every experiment. Or Darden would have the good sense to tell him to do so.

    • Sanjeev

      I remember that he has said in past that his partners were able to produce an E-cat without his help.

    • But that could have been something introduced into the discussion by the NDI ? Anyway if he really has “it” don’t you think there are multiple mechanisms put in place in case of (God forbid) death ? Dossiers in bank deposit boxes, etc, etc … at least I hope they’re are.

  • pangoo

    http://jcfrs.org/JCF16/jcf16-abstracts.pdf
    Page 11 has an abstract of Norman Cook’s Presentation

    • clovis ray

      Nice read, thanks for the link, enjoyed it.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Interesting indeed. I wonder if we will see data from inside the working E-Cat that have been kept secret so far. Even if not so, the proposed model might allow at least some instructive conclusions.

  • pangoo

    http://jcfrs.org/JCF16/jcf16-abstracts.pdf
    Page 11 has an abstract of Norman Cook’s Presentation

    • clovis ray

      Nice read, thanks for the link, enjoyed it.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Interesting indeed. I wonder if we will see data from inside the working E-Cat that have been kept secret so far. Even if not so, the proposed model might allow at least some instructive conclusions.

  • clovis ray

    HI, guys.

    I love this quote from blade runner, it from a dieing android, remembering, pasted events in it’s life,

    When saying,‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. great show with harrison ford.

  • clovis ray

    HI, guys.

    I love this quote from blade runner, it from a dieing android, remembering, pasted events in it’s life,

    When saying,‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. great show with harrison ford.

  • Sanjeev

    Great interview and great discussion as well.

    “Over the years we realized that the reaction needs more stimuli than only heating. – Fabiani”
    This is the biggest take away from the interview from the point of view of replicators. As demonstrated in the latest GS5 experiment, it is almost certain that simply heating the Ni in H2 atmosphere will not produce an easily detectable gain. Some kind of stimulant is necessary.

    • Barney Holmes

      Not news to me. The patents hint at this, or was it more obvious ? At the very least I intuited that the catalyst is a frequency that catalyses a chain reaction somewhat as depicted in the movie “Chain Reaction”.

    • Axil Axil

      http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0565.pdf

      “AHE has been observed during electrolysis following dynamic stimulation of the cell by time dependent electrolytic currents (SuperWaves) and ultrasonic excitation.”

      Why doesn’t MPMF find out what the “SuperWave” is? Why don’t replicators use the SuperWave”?

  • Sanjeev

    Great interview and great discussion as well.

    “Over the years we realized that the reaction needs more stimuli than only heating. – Fabiani”
    This is the biggest take away from the interview from the point of view of replicators. As demonstrated in the latest GS5 experiment, it is almost certain that simply heating the Ni in H2 atmosphere will not produce an easily detectable gain. Some kind of stimulant is necessary.

    • Not news to me. The patents hint at this, or was it more obvious ? At the very least I intuited that the catalyst is a frequency that catalyses a chain reaction somewhat as depicted in the movie “Chain Reaction”.

    • Axil Axil

      http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0565.pdf

      “AHE has been observed during electrolysis following dynamic stimulation of the cell by time dependent electrolytic currents (SuperWaves) and ultrasonic excitation.”

      Why doesn’t MPMF find out what the “SuperWave” is? Why don’t replicators use the SuperWave”?

  • Barney Holmes

    I was detecting Rossi: “difficult to work with” from Fabiani but it sounds like the benefits of the interesting work and Rossi’s interesting ideas far outweigh difficulties of working with Rossi for Fabiani.

  • psi2u2

    Terrific to hear from eng. Fabiani with this kind of detail.

  • psi2u2

    Terrific to hear from eng. Fabiani with this kind of detail.

  • Brokeeper

    Fulvio Fabiani said: “We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is ‘nothing in comparison’. You cannot imagine.” And Andrea Rossi said: “The E-Cat X
    produces DIRECTLY electric power.” Both statements imply, IMO, the E-Cat catalyzation is directly producing electricity and/or osculating electromagnetism with no intervening device.
    It is possible the input controlling frequencies are being significantly amplified by the internal reactive processes and transformed to electricity by additional tuned inductive windings.

  • Brokeeper

    Comment removed

    • bachcole

      Brokeeper, why did you remove this comment? I liked very much the email version.

      • Brokeeper

        Ha ha! Miss-posted it here. 🙂

  • Brokeeper

    Ha ha! Miss-posted it here. 🙂