E-Cat Wafers Will be Manufactured ‘Like Microelectronic Components’

If you read Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat patent you will see that at the heart of the device are what are referred to as ‘wafers’ which contain the essential elements to make the E-Cat react: hydrogen, lithium, lithium aluminum hydride, and and a group 10 element such as nickel, and also a heat source.

Rossi has confirmed recently on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that the plant currently under test are using this wafer technology. Today Rossi was asked another question about the wafer.

Theo Blount
December 24th, 2015 at 11:11 PM
Dr Andrea Rossi
If the E-Cat X will be produced in very small dimensions to be eventually assembled to reach any power, how will be possible to reproduce the wafers of the charges described in your US Patent?
Merry Christmas,
Theo

Andrea Rossi
December 25th, 2015 at 8:22 AM
Theo Blount:
The robotized lines will produce the wafers with a technology similar to the one used to make microelectronic components. I cannot enter in the particulars.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

It’s fascinating to think that E-Cats of all sizes could someday be spit out on production lines like transistors or computer chips, and make units of any power rating needed. I wonder how far away we are from this kind of development.

Today I received an Amazon tablet that can do a lot of things that any PC could do. I could probably run this website on it, and do all the communicating and surfing that I need to do. It’s on the low end, but very adequate for basic usage, and the total cost was $35 (a Black Friday deal). My point here is that it has components inside it that at one time were probably very complex to desgin, very bulky, and very expensive to make. And now, with advanced manufacturing techniques, it is very easy and inexpensive to produce these terribly complex items.

Probably the E-Cat wafers would be a lot simpler to make than a tablet/smartphone/computer since I assume there would a lot less complex electronics involved — so maybe in a few years time they might be able to make E-Cat reactors for just a few dollars or even pennies each.

This is just conjecture at this point, and there’s a long way to go, but I find the possibility of mass production in this manner very intriguing.

  • Matt

    How I love those robotized lines.

  • Jonnyb

    I hope the E-cat is soon on the market, then all the speculation will be over.

  • Jonnyb

    I hope the E-cat is soon on the market, then all the speculation will be over.

  • Christina

    When that is true it will in the future be one very Merry Christmas when all the people of the world are comfortably housed, fed, and given enough pure water.

    Thank you very much, Doctor Rossi for working so hard on this gift to God’s children.

    A Holy Christmas and Blessed New Year to all.

    Christina

  • Warthog

    LOL….it is nice to be right. See “LENR on a chip” concept presented here several times.

  • Steve Bannister

    Indeed. LENR technology subject to “Moore’s Law” would be revolutionary.

  • Allan Shura

    Nanors and such configuration.

  • Allan Shura

    Nanors and such configuration.

  • E-cat powered robot line?

    • US_Citizen71

      Of course they would dog food new designs for power generation eventually but not likely at first. Not until the product is an electric generating system. But I bet the first lines will be heated by an E-Cat and process heat if needed will come from one as well. If you don’t use your own product why should anyone else?

  • Gerard McEk

    Probably the cat and mouse are integrated circuits, integrated in the ‘wafer’ fuel cake.

    • Mats002

      Yes I think so too, and the Tiger is made by stacking wafers together. They talk to each other in coherence at a certain temp window. Hope we will know more for certain soon.

    • HarryD

      I figure it is more about creating micro structures on solid surface instead of loose grains, perhaps creating maximization on surface/volume ratio when the effect is mainly an surface effect, depositing very thin layers of element x on element y (Pd on Ni?) and burning or etching off structures, and then move from wafers toward hollow cylindrical configuration which is one step away from integration directly with heat-exchanging pipes which can function in “traditional” heat exchenger set-up to make steam or can be specially constructed to be the hot-end cilinder of stirling engine or humming thermo-acoustic-pipe in TAgenset….. Xmass dreams 😉

  • Low Energy Nanoscale Energy…

    He is not the only one.
    He will have competent competitors at R&D scale.
    where and who?

  • Low Energy Nanoscale Energy…

    He is not the only one.
    He will have competent competitors at R&D scale.
    where and who?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Having a second skin, like in the Dune Sci-Fi series that regulated body temperature sure would remove the need to heat buildings. Perhaps more elegant as comfy underwear.

    It’s like that old joke about “why carpet your house when you can get a scrap of carpet and strap it to your feet”

    • GreenWin

      Bob, thanks for a true L O L! Best of Holidays!

      • Bob Greenyer

        A pleasure – I’m not always serious you know!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Having a second skin, like in the Dune Sci-Fi series that regulated body temperature sure would remove the need to heat buildings. Perhaps more elegant as comfy underwear.

    It’s like that old joke about “why carpet your house when you can get a scrap of carpet and strap it to your feet”

    • GreenWin

      Bob, thanks for a true L O L! Best of Holidays!

      • Bob Greenyer

        A pleasure – I’m not always serious you know!

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wonder what production volume the line is being designed to support?

    Perhaps IH will outsource most of the component production and focus on chip production and assembly. If they wish to scoop the global market they need to move fast and smart. Most of the complex components seem to be third party for the demonstration designs.

    • Owen Geiger

      That’s probably what the factory in China is for — mass producing general parts.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I wonder what production volume the line is being designed to support?
    I doubt that they will be able to keep up with demand for the next decade, no matter what they do.

    Perhaps IH will outsource most of the component production and focus on chip production and assembly. If they wish to scoop the global market they need to move fast and smart. Most of the complex components seem to be third party for the demonstration designs.

    • Owen Geiger

      That’s probably what the factory in China is for — mass producing general parts.

  • Mats002

    At some point, don’t remember when, AR was talking about 3D printing E-Cats. Maybe he was inspired by this development:

    http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2015/ra/c5ra22737b

    Al2O3 is used to produce coherent light.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi recently posted that 3D isn’t economical for mass production.
      He did say they would be of benefit for prototypes where you build only a few then make changes. He didn’t say that he was using it.

      3D will have it’s uses. Low volume products, specialty use, prototype etc…
      It will even be of use for very intricate products where maybe because of this intricacy requires multiple components that would be better, stronger & cheaper if made in a single unit. Turbines & Jet engine manufacturers are very interested in this possibility.

      • Warthog

        I think the “printing” Rossi refers to is photolithography, or a similar approach from semiconductor tech.

  • Mats002

    At some point, don’t remember when, AR was talking about 3D printing E-Cats. Maybe he was inspired by this development:

    http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2015/ra/c5ra22737b

    Al2O3 is used to produce coherent light.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi recently posted that 3D isn’t economical for mass production.
      He did say they would be of benefit for prototypes where you build only a few then make changes. He didn’t say that he was using it.

      3D will have it’s uses. Low volume products, specialty use, prototype etc…
      It will even be of use for very intricate products where maybe because of this intricacy requires multiple components that would be better, stronger & cheaper if made in a single unit. Turbines & Jet engine manufacturers are very interested in this possibility.

      • Warthog

        I think the “printing” Rossi refers to is photolithography, or a similar approach from semiconductor tech.

        • Could well be “roll -to-toll” typography like the one used to make LED and LCD displays.

      • TVulgaris

        The industrial 3dP scene is substanially different from just last year. I somewhat doubt Rossi has the time to keep up too closely (I don’t, and this is a field of strong interest to me)- there are quite a few products using 3dP parts, and some made entirely 3dP, already. Many of these are like the industrial-product version of the ASIC, but some things lend themselves immediately and very economically to the process. Wafers probably don’t,

        there are AM techniques that seem much more appropriate- R-T-R as mentioned below is a printing and AM technique, and COULD be considered 3d to a minor extent, but usually isn’t. It’s a decent bet it might do for the reactant preparation what it has done for organic PV.

  • georgehants

    Which all brings up again, how many jobs can hopefully be lost without problems and not in this crazy capitalist system having people suffer and struggling to find work that is completely unnecessary and insane.
    Progress is to remove jobs not brainwash the gullible population into pointless work to keep this corrupt and inefficient system afloat.
    People able to have more free-time and work only to improve society generally.
    A health service for all, not just those lucky enough to afford it.
    This would mean a happy new year for everybody, outside of their personal problems,

  • georgehants

    Which all brings up again, how many jobs can hopefully be lost with Cold Fusion etc. without problems and not in this crazy capitalist system having people suffer and struggling to find work that is completely unnecessary and insane.
    Progress is to remove jobs not brainwash the gullible population into pointless work to keep this corrupt and inefficient system afloat.
    People able to have more free-time and work only to improve society generally.
    An equal health service for all etc. not just those lucky enough to afford it.
    This would mean a happy new year for everybody, outside of their personal problems,

    • MorganMck

      We heard you the first 20 times thank you and the notion that any non-market based system can allocate the factors of production better is still fantasy and will inevitably lead to a totalitarian disaster from which we would all long for the “old days.” In any case, you are not going to make your ideas reality by endlessly repeating them here.

      • georgehants

        Morgon, thank you for repeating your answer.
        Unfortunately your ideas of “fantasy” are a fantasy, perhaps you would like to try and understand the concept better before repeating blindly the usual propaganda fed to the masses.
        It’s all a little like having to repeat over and over to closed-minded scientists that Cold Fusion exists.
        Denial is not going to make them look very clever in the end is it?

        • Warthog

          Kind of hard to “understand the concept better” when you flatly refuse to describe in any detail how and why your supposedly “different” attempt at socialism will not suffer the same ignominious failure as all the other historical ones.

        • mike wolf

          You are kidding, right? If the government controls everything, what happens if you don’t like it? If the government controls nothing, it is bad, but much better than the converse.

    • mike wolf

      Every other system has caused more poverty, death, and oppression of man. The capitalist system, for all it’s flaws has saved more people and brought more people out of poverty than all other systems combined. Are you evil or just ignorant?

      The less capitalist the system, the more people suffer. Are you just jealous of the rich because you don’t have what it takes to get yours? That corruption you talk about comes from the left brother. Wake up and smell the coffee. Or else you will spread this poison to the ones you love and keep them unproductive. You see in a capitalist system, it is your attitude, not your aptitude, that gives you altitude.

      Look at America in the last 30 years, through bashing the rich, the left has gotten most of what it wanted. The result is our technology is stagnant and our infrastructure is in ruin. At what point of the downfall will you realize it is the lies you’ve been told that is the cause of all your hardships?

      Really, non capitalist control the schools, are they better now? They control science, is it better now? The control wall street, is it better now? They control our cities, are they better now? They control your mind, are you better now? Think about it.

      • TVulgaris

        “Really, non capitalist control the schools, are they better now? They
        control science, is it better now? The control wall street, is it better
        now? They control our cities, are they better now?”

        If by “non-capitalist”, you mean the ultra-rich and anti-competitive, you point could be well-taken, if that “control” were completely monolithic, rather than being only mostly that. Otherwise, the “control” the left has is a figment of your

        fevered reaction to minor social progress of the early and mid 20th century, which has been incrementally rolled back for the past 40 years, with some islands of stability and triggers for chaotic systemic change. This is, if not entirely planned and controlled, EXACTLY the stated goals of the conservative and reactionary political factions within the US, especially, but not exclusively, within the Republican party. 60 years ago, my father (a Republican) observed exactly that. I (also registered Republican) have not observed any change in trajectory in the past 40.

        I would contend a history of terrible economic systems does not justify accepting, let alone promoting, one that’s somewhat less terrible.

  • Owen Geiger

    On my wish list is an article than recaps all of Rossi’s new breakthroughs this year. Frank?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      A good start:

      Andrea Rossi

      December 26th, 2015 at 8:30 AM

      James Watt:

      Here is the big new: yes, the E-Cat X produces directly electric power.

      • kenko1

        Some folks around here claim ‘The battery is dead’. I now claim :’Coal, nat-gas, and nuclear. power plants are dead’. Hu-ray!

        • giovanniontheweb

          more precisely new safe life for the existing nuclear plants

  • Owen Geiger

    On my wish list is an article than recaps all of Rossi’s new breakthroughs this year. Frank?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      A good start:

      Andrea Rossi

      December 26th, 2015 at 8:30 AM

      James Watt:

      Here is the big new: yes, the E-Cat X produces directly electric power.

      • kenko1

        Some folks around here claim ‘The battery is dead’. I now claim :’Coal, nat-gas, and nuclear. power plants are dead’. Hu-ray!

        • It depend on the efficiency of the conversion in small, chip sized reactors.
          If the efficiency is low, they could compete with batteries because they do not need to be replaced, even if, maybe, it is not cost competitive with actual usage when common batteries are available in bulk.
          Or, maybe, it will become cost competitive with every chemical reaction based battery.

          For example:
          it could be cost competitive with a battery used in a tablet, because it would not need recharging or a recharging stand. Perfect for outdoor, away from power outlets of any type.

          But, if efficiency is not high enough, it could dissipate too much heat to be usable in small devices (because they would become too hot).

        • giovanniontheweb

          more precisely new safe life for the existing nuclear plants

  • georgehants

    Morgon, thank you for repeating your answer.
    Unfortunately your ideas of “fantasy” are a fantasy, perhaps you would like to try and understand the concept better before repeating blindly the usual propaganda fed to the masses.
    It’s all a little like having to repeat over and over to closed-minded scientists that Cold Fusion exists.
    Denial is not going to make them look very clever in the end is it?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Maybe this could be a way to make an alumina layer in a wafer:
    “Nanogranular Al2O3 films were deposited by the plasma-enhanced chemical vapor deposition (PECVD) method using gas sources of trimethylaluminum and oxygen at 100 °C.” http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2013/tc/c3tc30137k#!divAbstract
    But lithium and LiAlH4 would react with oxygen they would have to be applied separately. Maybe a tetrahydrofuran solution of LiAlH4 could be sprayed on and the tetrahydrofuran could be removed under vacuum.

    • Owen Geiger

      How are the wafers bonded to each other?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Maybe this could be a way to make an alumina layer in a wafer:
    “Nanogranular Al2O3 films were deposited by the plasma-enhanced chemical vapor deposition (PECVD) method using gas sources of trimethylaluminum and oxygen at 100 °C.” http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2013/tc/c3tc30137k#!divAbstract
    But lithium and LiAlH4 would react with oxygen they would have to be applied separately. Maybe a tetrahydrofuran solution of LiAlH4 could be sprayed on and the tetrahydrofuran could be removed under vacuum.

    • Owen Geiger

      How are the wafers bonded to each other?

    • TVulgaris

      Both (CVD and LD) scale well to industrial lines, but removing the THF might be problemmatic (from an expense standpoint). Flame spraying and vacuum sputtering are grandaddy processes CVD comes from, assuming you need the precision of CVD for this- which nanofeature control may be only necessary to peak the reactor performance. Wafers with less-than-absolute-optimal output (the very definition of “industrial grade”) could be AM’d entirely with these older processes (vacuum sputtering is a controlled-atmosphere environment)