Rossi: The E-Cat X Does Produce Electricity Directly (Update #2: ‘We Can Choose’ between Heat and Electricity)

Thanks to Artefact for posting this from the Journal of Nuclear Physics. Finally we get a clear answer from Andrea Rossi about what the E-Cat X is doing.

James Watt December 26th, 2015 at 5:59 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi,
Can you finally tell us if the E-Cat X is able to produce electricity directly? That would be a Christmas gift!
Happy New Year,
J. Watt

Andrea Rossi December 26th, 2015 at 8:30 AM
James Watt:
Here is the big new: yes, the E-Cat X produces directly electric power.
We are working to harness and make it work.
The E-Cat X is very, very promising, as I always said. But still: the results of the tests on course could turn out to be NEGATIVE.
Let’s work on it more and more, as it is necessary before chanting victory.
Happy New Year to you,
A.R.

So there we have a clear answer finally, which has been hinted at for months now, and being able to generate electricity directly makes the E-Cat an even more fascinating technology and takes LENR to a whole new level. This also gives some context to Rossi’s comments yesterday where he said he plans to manufacture E-Cats in the same way that common electrical components are produced today.

There are of course new questions that come up now, such as how much electricity is being produced, and how much energy input (if any) is needed. Rossi has talked about stacking E-Cats together (like Lego blocks) to produce any level of power needed, and to scale it down where it can produce a few watts only.

This sets up 2016 to be more interesting than ever. The mind boggles at the possibilities — we are at the very beginnings here, and who knows where this could now lead. My guess is that there will be a long period of testing (Rossi has said this test will need to go on for six months at least) before we can think of production, so maybe 2016 will be another year of waiting as far as the E-Cat X goes.

UPDATE #1 (Dec 26, 2015)

I followed up on the JONP with a couple of questions:

1. Is the amount of electricity being produced at the moment large enough to be practical and useful?
2. Is there an external input of power required to maintain the production this electricity?

Andrea Rossi
December 26th, 2015 at 10:35 AM
Frank Acland:
1- yes and the efficiency is very high
2- yes and the COP is very high
But attention: this comes from a work made this last night so it is too soon to chant victory.
Maybe it breaks up. Right now I am on the E-Cat X and it works making heat and electricity. I hope it is not a dream of half Winter.
Warm Regards
A.R.

UPDATE #2 (Dec 26, 2015)

As expected, there are more questions being sent to Andrea Rossi on the JONP on his latest revelation. Rossi is being cautious about declaring victory, but he is obviously very excited about the breakthrough, saying that the E-Cat X is going “beyond any expectancy”.

He provided an interesting response to a question by Hank Mills who asked, “When the COP of the E-Cat X (in terms of electrical output) is high, does the COP (only considering heat output) also remain high?” Ross responded, “obviously”. I followed up with this question:

“In the E-Cat X now, which is greater: the heat output, or electricity output?”

Response:

Andrea Rossi
December 26th, 2015 at 9:57 PM
Frank Acland:
We can choose.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • HarryD

    EE-CAT
    (Electric Energy Catalizator)

    • clovis ray

      I like it, it’s great to be able to name new thing, i believe i coined the name, the Rossi effect, many tried to change it, but i prevailed, that’s my story and i’m sticking too it.

    • artefact

      E-Cat AT (Alien Technology)

    • Gerald

      R=e^2 😉

    • harryv

      He He He today EE-CAT, tomorrow I-CAT (infinity)

  • kenko1

    simply ennough: Wow.

  • kenko1

    simply ennough: Wow.

  • MasterBlaster7

    This is very good news.

  • MasterBlaster7

    This is very good news.

  • 🙂

  • 🙂

  • Teemu

    I find it hilarious in a poetic sort of way that the question was asked by a ‘James Watt’ – a name that has connotations to both steam and electricity.

    • US_Citizen71

      Might be an intentional pseudoname but regardless the irony is humorous!

      • Teemu

        I mean, it probably is.

    • Brokeeper

      Careful not to confuse it with divine confirmation which I personally experienced throughout my life.

    • GreenWin

      Irony for Americans: “Secretary of the Interior James G. Watt asked President Reagan’s
      forgiveness today for making a ”morally offensive” statement in
      describing an advisory panel as ideally balanced for including ”a
      black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple.”
      http://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/23/us/watt-asks-that-reagan-forgive-offensive-remark-about-panel.html

  • Andreas Moraitis

    If producing electricity “directly” means that Rossi exploits the magnetic fields which are supposedly generated by the LENR, we had a revolution^X.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    If producing electricity “directly” means that Rossi exploits the magnetic fields which are supposedly generated by the LENR, we had a revolution^X.

  • US_Citizen71

    Might be an intentional pseudoname but regardless the irony is humorous!

  • Why not simply feed the generated electricty into the heating and controlling elments and use external power only in startup mode?

    This would stop even the last sceptic.

    • Observer

      At this point the skeptics are helping Rossi by discouraging funding for the competition. Rossi already has the funds to proceed. His competition (that we know of) are starving for capitol. By the time the capabilities of the e-cat become accepted by the main stream, Rossi will have such a head start, the competition will have trouble raising money for being a “me too” effort. This is why Rossi can never stop running and never look back.

      • Owen Geiger

        Excellent point, thanks.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        OK, now it’s time to retrofit this.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4oO9OeVp9E

        • artefact

          That will need a big subwoover under the seat to have the real feeling 🙂

  • Why not simply feed the generated electricty into the heating and controlling elments and use external power only in startup mode?

    This would stop even the last sceptic.

    • Observer

      At this point the skeptics are helping Rossi by discouraging funding for the competition. Rossi already has the funds to proceed. His competition (that we know of) are starving for capitol. By the time the capabilities of the e-cat become accepted by the main stream, Rossi will have such a head start, the competition will have trouble raising money for being a “me too” effort. This is why Rossi can never stop running and never look back.

      • Owen Geiger

        Excellent point, thanks.

  • Thomas Baccei

    Doesn’t anyone else fear that all of us “fans” of the LENR revolution have dropped down a rabbit hole? Claims are stacked one upon the other several layers deep, and no one of them is as yet on solid footing. Thus far, for me, this has been an exercise in sociology, and a fascinating one at that. Two sides of the belief system coin duking it out, with endless hours of debunking by a small, relentless cadre of skeptopaths opposing the beguiling, fanciful and elaborate creations that thus far exists only in the minds of their creators, And the beauty is how this vision of a free energy future builds upon itself to the point where entire generations in the evolution of LENR power stand shakily upon each other like a Flying Wallenda tight rope act! What a great living novel this has been, and will, I suspect continue to be. Thank you one and all, and have a most wonderful New Year!!

    • US_Citizen71

      No

    • tlp

      Lots of writing, but no relevance on this thread. Exept last sentence, wonderful New Year indeed!
      This is very important development for Ecat, now it can compete better with SunCell.

    • ‘Fans’ is your word – most people posting here have simply come to the conclusion that the overwhelming weight of evidence (only part of which comes from Rossi) supports the reality of cold fusion.

      It is still remotely possible not only that Rossi is a fantasist but that all the other material published on LENR is specious and all those involved are frauds or delusional. However, as the probability of this now seems to be at the sub-1% level it makes rather more sense to accept the data at face value.

      If this turns out to be an incorrect assessment, so be it, but from where I’m standing it seems more likely that it will be the diehard skeptics such as yourself whose assumed superiority will look pretty silly in a couple of years or less.

      Have a great New Year yourself, but I suggest you try to find a more durable hobby than your current sociological study, which may become a source of some embarrassment for you quite soon.

      • Thomas Baccei

        I am in no way a skeptic. Please give me that much credit. I will never be embarrassed by my continued pleasure in following this debate. You seem embattled, and for that I send my sympathy. Perhaps if you re-read my post you will get the point: whether LENR turns out to be an earth shaking discovery, or a house of cards was built by a combination of fraud, incompetence and simple willingness to believe, this whole journey has been a wonderful ride. I deeply hope the LENR quest is successful, and I share with you the growing recognition that a very large number of disconnected researchers have somehow either been incompetent or fraudulent. Not likely. Still, at this point, zero demonstrations with high replicability. A fine soup we find ourselves in! And just by the way, your snarky attitude is really unjustified and immature. Get a clue.

        • GreenWin

          “…whether LENR turns out to be an earth shaking discovery, or a house of
          cards was built by a combination of fraud, incompetence and simple
          willingness to believe…”

          We will, in all fairness judge Einstein’s relativity, the Standard Model, speed of light, and the “climate campaign” on similar grounds. And most likely finding them all flawed.

          Our inability to recognize conflict in what we write and what we claim to write – is the very definition of “cognitive dissonance.” We compose harmony… but our audience hears cacophony. Happy New Year Thomas.

        • Well said

          • You think so? Perhaps you should read Thomas’ thoroughly loaded reply more carefully.

        • Mmm.. denial, feigned concern, a false choice, disparagement and derision, feigned support, twisting of other’s meaning, dismissal of facts, and an ad hominem attack. I don’t think you’ve missed a single trick – congratulations.

          If it walks like a duck…

    • Mats002

      Yes sometimes exactly that picture comes to my mind. I am still open for that outcome but the evidences of LENR as a real phenomenon have been piling up to a level where I am since long convinced that it is serious science that is mistreated. Money should poor into LENR research, both official tax money and private patient capital, and I am very happy to see this happen!

      Rossi is right about that the only 100% convincing proof of useful LENR is products on the market. To me that could be a DIY kit to replicate the effect at will. Like a toy steam engine it would make people experience the new fire for themself.

      Until then I am a believer with some uncertiancy.

    • f sedei

      It sounds like you are dismayed because of working with unprovable sociological theorems and findings, not scientific facts and evidence. But, positive/negative input for rebuttal is welcomed from all concerned. Thank you.

    • Roland

      You could try reading the extant literature instead of indulging in sociological speculation.

  • clovis ray

    I like it, it’s great to be able to name new thing, i believe i coined the name, the Rossi effect, many tried to change it, but i prevailed, that’s my story and i’m sticking too it.

  • Sounds like Rossi has made a big breakthrough. I cannot imagine how it could work, however. Heat destroys electrical components, so manufacturing something like an electrical component that also produces lots of heat sounds like a contradiction. I suppose high powered lasers are sort of like that, but keeping them from self-destructing due to heat takes allot of engineering. I am clueless as to what he is doing.

    • Agaricus

      It seems much more likely that the ‘output’ might be in the form of an oscillating magnetic field that could be converted to AC electrical power by simple copper windings.

      We have had hints since the days of DGT that under certain conditions, solid state cold fusion reactors generate such fields, and this would be consistent with the idea that efficient operation depends on establishing coherent phonons within the reactor analogous with laser operation. Either a travelling wave or standing oscillation might give rise to such oscillating field effects.

      If this is anywhere close to a correct picture, it’s conceivable that e-cat x may not need further stimulation once it has been set running, and so could have an infinite ‘COP’.

      • GreenWin

        First, Happy Christmas and New Year, Agaricus, Frank, George et al here at E-Cat World! This space keeps getting better. 🙂

        IF, the X can be oscillated as you suggest at some regular grid-type frequency (e.g. 50-60 Hz) it could directly replace grid connections. Even without stable oscillation, full wave rectification/filtering and voltage control could produce DC current for most home appliances.

        A future challenge might be to limit heat in favor of more electric. A modern household in a marginal temperate zone needs heat for hot water – other energy demands can be met by ~30A 120V circuits and low voltage DC.

        • Agaricus

          Seasons Greetings to you, GW. Things are getting interesting as you say!

          If there is anything at all to my speculation above, it seems probable that Rossi used 50/60 Hz induction at some point (an attempt at indirect heating?) and noticed an enhanced reaction which he then set about developing.

          This could well mean that this frequency (or a 1st/2nd harmonic) is by happy chance somewhere in the right ballpark for stimulating CF. However if he was driving the coil (probably the ‘auxiliary heater’ in his first design) through a triac then all manner of ‘dirty’ frequencies could have resulted.

          However in the absence of better information 50 Hz would seem to be a good place to begin for the replicators, although a series of computer controlled ‘presets’ might be better. It would be nice to hear from DeChiaro again on this topic, but I guess he’s already be told that he spoke out of turn.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Might also be thermophotovoltaics. The hot 1400 C surface would be covered by a material which emits only a single line of infrared, and adjacent a cooled photovoltaic semiconductor which is tuned to the infrared line. Since the device is small, cooling by conduction into an air-cooled metal frame might be enough.
      This would be a rather “basic” solution. Maybe he has something fancier and cheaper.

  • Sounds like Rossi has made a big breakthrough. I cannot imagine how it could work, however. Heat destroys electrical components, so manufacturing something like an electrical component that also produces lots of heat sounds like a contradiction. I suppose high powered lasers are sort of like that, but keeping them from self-destructing due to heat takes allot of engineering. I am clueless as to what he is doing.

    • It seems much more likely that the ‘output’ might be in the form of an oscillating magnetic field that could be converted to AC electrical power by simple copper windings.

      We have had hints since the days of DGT that under certain conditions, solid state cold fusion reactors generate such fields, and this would be consistent with the idea that efficient operation depends on establishing coherent phonons within the reactor – analogous with laser/maser operation. Either a travelling wave or standing oscillation might give rise to such oscillating field effects.

      If this is anywhere close to a correct picture, it’s conceivable that the effect is self perpetuating, and e-cat x may not need further stimulation once it has been set running (infinite ‘COP’). Shorting out the induction windings to absorb the field completely might provide a convenient ‘off’ switch.

      • GreenWin

        First, Happy Christmas and New Year, Agaricus, Frank, George et al here at E-Cat World! This space keeps getting better. 🙂

        IF, the X can be oscillated as you suggest at some regular grid-type frequency (e.g. 50-60 Hz) it could directly replace grid connections. Even without stable oscillation, full wave rectification/filtering and voltage control could produce DC current for most home appliances.

        A future challenge might be to limit heat in favor of more electric. A modern household in a marginal temperate zone needs heat for hot water – other energy demands can be met by ~30A 120V circuits and low voltage DC.

        • Seasons Greetings to you, GW. Things are getting interesting as you say!

          If there is anything at all to my speculation above, it seems probable that Rossi used 50/60 Hz induction at some point (an attempt at indirect heating?) and noticed an enhanced reaction which he then set about developing.

          This could well mean that this frequency (or a 1st/2nd harmonic) is serendipitously somewhere in the right ballpark for stimulating CF. However if he was driving the coil (probably the ‘auxiliary heater’ in his first design) through a triac then all manner of ‘dirty’ frequencies could have resulted.

          However in the absence of better information 50 Hz would seem to be a good place to begin for the replicators, although a series of computer controlled ‘presets’ might be better. It would be nice to hear from DeChiaro again on this topic, but I guess he’s already been told that he spoke out of turn.

    • keV

      Maybe it generates electricity via induction.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Might also be thermophotovoltaics. The hot 1400 C surface would be covered by a material which emits only a single line of infrared, and adjacent a cooled photovoltaic semiconductor which is tuned to the infrared line. Since the device is small, cooling by conduction into an air-cooled metal frame might be enough.
      This would be a rather “basic” solution. Maybe he has something fancier and cheaper.

    • Gerald

      If something is cooled down to absolute 0 k, electricity becomes magnetisme. For my simple mind molecules/atomes stop moving. So whats goes around them act different. Maybe is you lock hydrogen atooms in nikkel pockets the same happens.

  • Zephir

    No thermoelectric material can produce electricity from heat with efficiency higher than 22%, so that the COP of LENR must be higher than 5 to substantiate the yield,

  • Zephir

    No thermoelectric material can produce electricity from heat with efficiency higher than 22%, so that the COP of LENR must be higher than 5 to substantiate the yield,

  • tlp

    Lots of writing, but no relevance on this thread. Exept last sentence, wonderful New Year indeed!
    This is very important development for Ecat, now it can compete better with SunCell.

  • artefact

    Fabiani was right. I can not imagine at the moment how this double energy miracle will shape our future.

    “‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you
    that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw.
    We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is
    nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX and
    many others of Rossi’s experiments.”

  • Brokeeper

    This has infused ‘new energy’ into the LENR community and hope for the world. Andrea Rossi, thank you for this wonderful surprise you left under the tree!

  • artefact

    Fabiani was right. I can not imagine at the moment how this double energy miracle will shape our future. It is like not out of our world.

    “‘I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe’. It’s true. I assure you
    that I have seen things that only I, Rossi and a few other people saw.
    We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is
    nothing in comparison. You cannot imagine. I speak of the E-CatX and
    many others of Rossi’s experiments.”

  • Brokeeper

    This has infused ‘new energy’ into the LENR community and hope for the world. Andrea Rossi, thank you for this wonderful surprise you left under the tree!

  • Stephen

    Wow that was great to read. Thanks to Andrea Rossi for this Christmas gift to those of us who like to follow his work. I guess there is still a lot to be done but this is really great and inspiring news to hear for Christmas. This year has already been amazing for me now I’m looking forward to what new amazing things may come up next year.

  • Brokeeper

    Careful not to confuse it with divine confirmation which I personally experienced throughout my life.

  • fusionrudy

    It is funny how advertisements that pop up along LENR stories shoot themselves in the foot: e.g. this one “How to Profit From Oil’s Rebound” next to the news that ECAT-X is producing heat and electricity directly. But of course these contradictions happen all over printed material and digital news.

  • fusionrudy

    It is funny how advertisements that pop up along LENR stories shoot themselves in the foot: e.g. this one “How to Profit From Oil’s Rebound” next to the news that ECAT-X is producing heat and electricity directly. But of course these contradictions happen all over printed material and digital news.

  • clovis ray

    I’ll say it again, wow, and yes thank you Dr.R, for keeping us informed as best you can, this will be the best ever,

  • Buck

    Wow . . .

    In the past, Rossi has stated that the E-Cat X has a higher COP and power density than the current E-Cat. Also, those visiting Profs and others who have visited Rossi have pointed to COPs in the range of 20-80. This rumored range of COPs was confirmed by a reputable Scandanavian (Norwegian) news outlet and by Mats Lewan.

    With the above in mind, I am comfortable with my guess that the E-Cat X at the least has a combined COP (heat and electricity) in the same range . . . 20-80.

    HOWEVER, the math gets all screwy if the “electricity COP” exceeds 1. At that point, it suggests that an E-Cat X at the very least displaces 100% of traditionally supplied grid power.

    • clovis ray

      That is the way i see it. Buck

      • Buck

        And it is because of this that I’m very saddened as my cousin, who is very familiar with the stock market having worked at Morgan Stanley for a long time, never chose to respond to my email about capitalizing on LENR.

        Here I was thinking and wrote about benefiting all my known family, siblings and cousins.

        Oh Well . . . my heart is full and I’m happy that we are one day closer to seeing an end to the era of Fossil Fuels adding to that insulating blanket promoting Climate Change.

        • Perhaps he’s busy secretly buying up nickel and lithium futures!

          • Buck

            And shorting segments of the Energy Sector.

          • GreenWin

            Buck, you can lead ’em to water…

            “One advantage of talking to yourself is that you know at least somebody’s listening.” Franklin Jones

    • Observer

      It goes beyond that. Electrical power will not fixed to a location, but built into every device that uses it.

      Energizer Bunny beware! Its Wabbit Season!

      • GreenWin

        Those poor bunnies. Not only is Elmer J. Fudd after them, they’ve got Steorn’s Shaun McCarthy on the hunt. Going, going… gone.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Actually, you can do some math on a traditional thermo-couple.

      The BEST thermo-couples produce (convert) at about 8% efficiency. So say one of the larger e-cat units produces 250,000 watts. This would give one about 20,000 watts of electric power. Thus, if the device has a higher COP then 12.5, then the device can SELF sustain under its OWN electric generation. And note that the thermo-couple really does NOT use or grab much heat energy. So you get your driver electricity essentially
      for free without robbing one of heat that can be used for heat!

      So with a larger, or even smaller ecat device, you simply build a small device that incorporates the thermo-couple.

      The result is a scalable device that requires VERY little (if any) input power to run. You would only need start-up power – once the system is under way, then these modules would self-control and self-sustain!

      Such a setup would not require input of electricity to keep the reaction going! In effect, the COP becomes near unlimited in such a case.

      So my bets are that Rossi has added a thermo-electric device to the e-cat. The above numbers quite much math wise work out.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • artefact

        what ever he does to get electricity, the term cop seems to become outdated for the e-cat.

      • Buck

        Thank you Albert.

        I think it fair to maintain the assumption that the COP is still in the 20-80 range.

        We will just have to wait to see if the electricity does or does not come directly from a LENR based phenomena.

        In either case, your point about the benefits of a thermo-couple still add up to a Bombshell.

  • clovis ray

    I’ll say it again, wow, and yes thank you Dr.R, for keeping us informed as best you can, this will be the best ever,

  • Jonnyb

    I think we maybe a year or two away from a commercial unit. The E-Cat X may have pushed the dates back a bit, but once cracked I am sure it will be worth the wait. If Andrea and his associates have cracked this it will be a real game changer and well worth the extra wait. Can’t wait to tell all my doubting friends and acquaintances ‘I told you so’, and then laugh and laugh with joy.

  • Jonnyb

    I think we maybe a year or two away from a commercial unit. The E-Cat X may have pushed the dates back a bit, but once cracked I am sure it will be worth the wait. If Andrea and his associates have cracked this it will be a real game changer and well worth the extra wait. Can’t wait to tell all my doubting friends and acquaintances ‘I told you so’, and then laugh and laugh with joy.

    • LookMoo

      What will happens is the ketchup-bottle effect.. first little or nothing but when confirmed nobody want to be left behind.

      It will have geopolitical implantations and will add to the low-price oil misery.. Saudi Arabia (SA) will have to borrow even more money. SA will have to cut down the support to Jihadist and the export of Islam.

      USA will totally lose the interest to fight oil war. The economy will transform from a oil based to a trade based. Whom needs gas the station when you can run the car for 10 year on “one tank” ??

      Most of the technological limitations we see today is tied to energy. We can not start space ship on earth and fly to space as they will run out of juice before reach the atmosphere. But we will with future LENR ecat.

      Meaning that you can go Tokyo to London in one (1) hour.

  • georgehants

    Wonderful news, now imagine if the secret of. Mr.Rossi’s Cold Fusion had been released five years ago, how much further would this science have moved?
    How many other unexpected breakthroughs with thousands of people Researching the effect?

    • GreenWin

      Wonderful day George! Kudos to the Dottore. Joyful New Year!

      • georgehants

        And to you and all GreenWin, maybe this is the year, all our beards are getting longer and longer as we wait.

        • Brokeeper

          Lesser and whiter in my case. 🙂

        • GreenWin

          George, Ms. Rump might take exception to your image, but yes, time is of the essence. To that end you might find this address by a young life extentionist inspiring. Ms. Parrish is a disruptive entrepreneur focused on telomerase gene therapy applied to the disease of aging:

          https://www.youtube[dot]com/watch?v=87OUb8TBwX0

  • georgehants

    Wonderful news, now imagine if the secret of. Mr.Rossi’s Cold Fusion had been released five years ago, how much further would this science have moved?
    How many other unexpected breakthroughs with thousands of people Researching the effect?

    • GreenWin

      Wonderful day George! Kudos to the Dottore. Joyful New Year!

      • georgehants

        And to you and all GreenWin, maybe this is the year, all our beards are getting longer and longer as we wait.

        • Brokeeper

          Lesser and whiter in my case. 🙂

        • GreenWin

          George, Ms. Rump might take exception to your image, but yes, time is of the essence. To that end you might find this address by a young life extentionist inspiring. Ms. Parrish is a disruptive entrepreneur focused on telomerase gene therapy applied to the disease of aging:

          https://www.youtube[dot]com/watch?v=87OUb8TBwX0

  • Agaricus

    ‘Fans’ is your word – most people posting here have simply come to the conclusion that the overwhelming weight of evidence (only part of which comes from Rossi) supports the reality of cold fusion.

    It is still remotely possible not only that Rossi is a fantasist and that all the other material published on LENR is specious and all those involved are frauds or delusional. However, as the probability of this now seems to be at the sub-1% level it makes rather more sense to accept the data at face value.

    If this turns out to be an incorrect assessment, so be it, but from where I’m standing it seems more likely that it will be the diehard skeptics such as yourself whose assumed superiority will look pretty silly in a couple of years or less.

    Have a great New Year yourself, but I suggest you try to find a more durable hobby than your current sociological study, which may become a source of some embarrassment for you quite soon.

  • Lars

    Totally fantastic

    • Pekka Janhunen
      • GreenWin

        02 02 02 02… a milestone is here!

        • artefact

          next milestone in 02 days 02 hours 02 minutes.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Does “very high efficiency” mean low heat to electrical power output? Might they be capable of running inside an insulated package, without a cooling system?

          • Omega Z

            Electricity will be at the cost of heat output.
            Note this is not the same as temperature, but the loss of available heat for other uses. The E-cat X will still operate at high temps.

      • LindbergofSwed

        Hahaha lalalala

  • Lars

    Totally fantastic

  • bachcole

    I confess that this causes me to waver a bit in my certainty. I just can’t see how electricity could be generated directly, and no one other than Rossi has said that it is so. I am not disbelieving; I am not neutral; I am somewhere between neutral and believing.

    • Monty

      its all about a changing (e.g. pulsating) electromagnetic field the reaction has to have. the rest is trivial…

      • Axil Axil

        Rossi is producing mesons just like Holmlid is. Electrons are a decay product of mesons.

    • Brent Buckner

      The phrase “producing electricity directly” has enough flexibility that people use it respective of aneutronic fusion (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_energy_conversion ).

    • Allan Shura

      Yes I think Italian high school teacher Ugo Abundo or one of his associates showed a video creating direct electricity from cold fusion (reference). The efficiency was not disclosed.

    • Axil Axil

      Other LENR systems have produce excess electrons in the past. Rossi is not the first.

      • bachcole

        Thank you, Axil^2.

  • Buck

    And it is because of this that I’m very saddened as my cousin, who is very familiar with the stock market having worked at Morgan Stanley for a long time, never chose to respond to my email about capitalizing on LENR.

    Here I was thinking about benefiting all my known family, siblings and cousins.

    Oh Well . . . my heart is full and I’m happy that we are one day closer to seeing an end to the era of Fossil Fuels adding to that insulating blanket promoting Climate Change.

    • Agaricus

      Perhaps he’s busy secretly buying up nickel and lithium futures!

      • Buck

        And shorting segments of the Energy Sector.

        • GreenWin

          Buck, you can lead ’em to water…

          “One advantage of talking to yourself is that you know at least somebody’s listening.” Franklin Jones

  • LilyLover

    Thank you Dr. Rossi!!!
    Dear Folks,
    See, once again, I magically happen to predict what Dr. Rossi has done or somehow I set up an expectation and he end up taking it as a challenge!!
    So, E-Cat X is gonna be E-Cat 10.
    Emboldened after crashing oil futures, Dr. Rossi must have become comfortable with COP 10 guarantee. Considering his conservative nature, I’m sure present day E-Cat X is capable of COP 40. And, E-Cat XX is gonna be “Guaranteed COP” 100.
    If you ever read this Dr. Rossi, don’t take it as obligation but take it as a spiritual support channelling my prayers for your success for the sake of brighter future.
    Have a wonderful life. &
    Happy New Year!!!
    `LilyLover

  • Jimr

    I think it’s great, however very leery with the comment about just discovering last night. I will wait a month before being excited.

    • artefact

      I think he ment that he got a good way to extract the electricity running. I think the reactors were allready running since 47 days without or with different coils or other devices. He probably can change them on the fly.

      • Allan Shura

        Yes I think Italian high school teacher Ugo Abundo or one of his associates showed a video creating direct electricity from cold fusion (reference). The efficiency was not disclosed.

  • Jimr

    I think it’s great, however very leery with the comment about just discovering last night. I will wait a month before being excited.

    • artefact

      I think he ment that he got a good way to extract the electricity running. I think the reactors were allready running since 47 days without or with different coils or other devices. He probably can change them on the fly.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Wow, that is a real bombshell.

    I have SEVERAL times stated that from previous comments we cannot tell if the ecat-x is producing electricity directly or not. However, several readers “hinted” that what Rossi was suggesting.

    Turns out those people were correct!

    So the NEXT question is this electric via a thermo-couple, or another process that is the result of the LENR reaction?

    In other words, does the ecat-x produce electricity as a RESULT of adding a simple thermo-couple (say part of the driver system), ***OR*** is the electric generation part of the LENR effect
    in some other way?

    So this could still be a traditional and classic means to produce electricity (like the NASA space probes – they use a thermo-couple).

    So the BIG question here is the electricity being produced by some LENR effect or a simple thermo-electric device of which we known about for 182 years! (that’s when the thermo-couple was discovered).
    So this could still be VERY OLD technology in terms of the electric production.

    Regardless, I think here is the FIRST time that Rossi has stated the ecat-x has a high COP. Now regardless of HOW you spin this, a high COP is a HIGH COP!

    On the other hand, perhaps this carrot is being dangled so Rossi can at the end of the yearlong test state he working on a much better reactor that will require much more testing?

    So the timing of this announcement does give Rossi some real excuse to prolong the introduction of a commercial LENR device AND ALSO keep us on the edge of our chairs for another year or so!

    So the high COP is great news, but the timing does give Rossi MUCH room to prolong a working device for customers.

    A HIGH COP also means that useful electricity can be obtained from a thermo-couple.
    Some needs to ask Rossi this simple question:
    Is the ecat-x electricity produced by a thermo-couple, (and heat)?
    Or is the electricity the result of some other means other then a classic thermo-couple that we known about for the last 182 years?
    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Right, but just a remark that thermocouple is not the only known no-moving-parts way to turn heat into electricity. There is also at least thermophotovoltaics and thermionics.

      • artefact

        Or magnetohydrodynamics like Mills tried to use but he found out that more light in the visible spectrum is produced.

        • Axil Axil

          Mills is using copper. Copper produces light. If he used palladium, he would get mesons.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Sure, it could be some other process.

        However given the relative “nasty” environment of heat surrounding the e-cat,
        and the simplicity and ease that a thermo-couple could be added to the existing
        design? (just wrap some wires around the device!).

        My bets are this is a classic thermo-couple.

        You can see my post further down with some quick “napkin” math – the numbers work out quite well. The end result is the electricity would provide the driver electricity to keep the LENR device going – in effect it would self-sustain since the input driver (heat) in the form of electricity would be generated by the device itself. And the design of a thermo-electric into such devices is relative simple.

        The above also explains why the COP would be so high. One does not really care that the conversion of heat into electricity is low (say 5-8%), that’s all you need to keep the device going and self-sustain.

        At an 8% conversion rate, then a LENR devoice with a COP of 12.5 mean you NOW have an unlimited COP by the SIMPLE addition of a thermo-electric device.

        So the “simplest” explanation here is likely what Rossi has done.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Monty

          So why does rossi speak of “the efficiency is very high” ?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Because Rossi is talking about the COP of the device from a heat point of view, NOT that of efficient electric production.

            If the device generates even a RELATIVE small amount of electricity, then that electricity generated simply means LESS INPUT energy (electricity) is required to drive the device.

            Less input energy in the form of electricity results in a high COP of the device producing heat.

            So when Rossi speaks of efficiently, he not talking about “low” effect and low efficiently of heat to electric, but the HIGH COP that results from this simple addition of a thermo-electric device.

            Reducing electric input amounts = VERY HIGH COP.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            i dont agree with u. he is talking about both. high efficiency and high COP…

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, if the device produces excess electricity overall then the COP is unlimited and has ZERO meaning in this context.

            In other words, if the electrical production provides all of the electricity required, then COP is not relevant anymore and makes no sense in this context.

            If you have excess electricity, then you don’t need nor have a COP anymore.

            Thus a “very high” COP suggests the device produces CLOSE to the electric requirements to drive the device. If the device produces MORE than the electric requirements, then you don’t need nor have a COP anymore.

            The system will self-sustain and you don’t have a COP anymore if this is the case.

            Thus why would Ross state a VERY high COP in place of simply stating the device can self-sustain?

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            maybe he says a very high COP because he looks at what goes in and what comes out and calculates the factor between in and out.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right but now the input power = 0. And to calculate the COP you then be forced to divide by zero. Last time I looked, that’s not possible!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            wow. is incredible how much you know. who told you the input power is 0?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, not quite!

            I am saying that if the device produces excess electricity, then the input requirements are by logic are zero. That’s basic math talking, and not subject to opinion. You have to talk to the math community if you disagree with this grade school math!

            I fully admit that I (we) don’t know if the device can produce excess electricity beyond the device’s requirements, but if it does, then you would be attempting to argue with basic math and not my logic or statements which are based on such.

            There is no COP to be calculated and this is basic math talking, not subject to my or anyone’s opinion.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Jouni Tuomela

            Hello Albert D. Kallal
            Please do be informed of recent findings from LHC, some new particles have been found to exist.
            Mathematics is the foundations of all, but physics still rules OK.

            Br Jouni
            Maksjoki, Lohja, Finland

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right, but you not standing here telling me to stop doing math, are you?

            Or worse, you telling me to avoid how math works!

            The fact of some new discovery in any field does not mean we stop doing math and stop making conclusions based on math, does it?

            The simple issue is if excess electricity beyond the requirements of the device is being produced, then we don’t have a COP anymore. What goes on inside that box, or some new discovery of some new particle or some new physics does not change this simple observation.

            Surely you not suggesting we toss out grade school math, are you?
            Either the device requires input energy, or it is able to provide its own or excess in the context of this discussion.

            It is fruitless and pointless to argue basic math here.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Roland

            I think we can assume that there is still an initial quantity of input power, which I suspect is delivered in the form of field effects rather than heat, required to initiate the reaction, subsequent to which the reactor becomes self-sustaining while outputting electricity and heat.

            In this sense, once the reaction has been initiated, COP could be considered irrelevant; on the other hand I would suggest that the control of the ongoing reaction still requires energy and as such there is still a calculable COP that is a measure of the efficiency and precision of the energy required by the control mechanism, and that COP would continue to improve until the precision of the applied field effects was absolute.

            The same reasoning could also be applied to the output side where the realized efficiency of harvesting the total energy of the reaction is reflected in the COP.

            In either case, given that the previous generation E-cat’s COP was on the order of > 80 and the X-cat improves on this, as the COP increases beyond these rough figures higher numbers represent incrementally smaller and smaller gains.

            We, or at least Rossi, are over the hump…

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t think he should state “the device can self-sustain” if he hasn’t ever run it without an external power source.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Why? If the electric output is in excess of input requirements, then it most certainly reasonable to state as such.

            He can’t claim that the device **is** self sustaining, but you most certainly can and should claim that if the device is producing more electricity then it requires, then you as noted don’t have a COP anymore and most certainly should state the device can self sustain. There really no other logical way to reason this out.
            Excess electric means the input requirements = 0, and as I pointed out then you do NOT have a COP nor can you calculate one since you then be forced to do some math that forces you to divide by zero!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, AlbertaCanada

          • Brent Buckner

            For example, perhaps the device outputs power that is noisier than it requires as input. Then it would not be correct to state that “the device can self-sustain” – rather it would be correct to state that “the device on average produces more power than it requires and with modification it might be able to self-sustain”.

          • artefact

            We heard that the COP of the normal e-cat is arround COP 20 – 80. The e-cat X is sayd to be even better. The e-cat x is 3,5 kW (made out of 3 sub reactors). So it would not require something special to get infinite COP (~70 W at COP 50). That makes me think that the excess electricity is much higher.

          • TomR

            Just my thoughts and they might be wrong, back a few months ago when Andrea was saying very good things about Obama I made a post that I thought an agreement had been made to smooth the way for Andrea and IH. I wonder if some of the milestones have not been met by Obama and his people and this is a reminder to them that by March things better get a lot easier to bring the E-Cats to market. I really believe that the manufacturing is ready to go right now.

          • Omega Z

            We have no idea what Rossi’s opinions are of Obama.
            You don’t talk bad about a person who can revoke you visa tomorrow.
            We know he doesn’t think much of the man made GW theory from past statements.
            However, he’s taken a neutral position in the last year & says it’s something to study.

            I bet your E-cat will not work. Rossi-You may win your bet.
            I think your E-cat will work great. Rossi-You may be right.
            Here’s what we know.
            Rossi has been schooled not to make unnecessary waves.
            By Obama’s recent statements, He gets most of his info from the mainstream news media. Thus he probably doesn’t know about LENR let alone Rossi.

          • Agaricus

            You think so? Perhaps you should read Thomas’ loaded reply more carefully.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Rossi has said many positive things about Obama, including the following (Aug 2 2015): “The enormous importance of the work of the President Obama is too
            momentous to be understood fully by all the people immediately: when he
            will be no more President his legacy will make History. Also Abraham
            Lincoln has been underevaluated by his contemporary counterparts: only
            after he died his gigantic figure has been fully understood and shared
            by almost all the people.”
            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=885&cpage=5#comment-1106291

          • Omega Z

            Rossi also made statements as to the importance of the GW work done in Paris. And he has made his views of communism well know. But he no longer lambasts orsobubu for his views. This is a person going with the flow & not making waves. Probably, he thinks his work is controversial enough without creating more. There are people to appease to grease the rails so to speak.

            If he has not made his view clear before, you can’t be certain where his views are.

          • TomR

            Thank you Pekka, those were the good things that Rossi said about Obama that I was referring to.

          • Obama should know about Rossi. A person very close to Obama, who I know personally, has got my book.

          • US_Citizen71

            There’s also my attempt and at least one other to get a petition going on the White House website. Until it’s ready for prime time I do not expect any world leader to acknowledge LENR publicly.

        • Allan Shura

          All large boilers including the ones around Edmonton are insulated from
          heat.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure but the thermo-electric conversion occurs at the heat source, not the heat storage device. So while the boiler is insulated, the thermo-electric devoice would be placed right above or at the burner. The “heat” energy such a thermo-electric device uses is negligible. (very little heat is lost and used up).

            The result is “near” free electricity from that heat when THEN goes on to heat the boiler. As noted, such TEGS are used in the nuclear power packs that power NASA space probes.

            There are some companies that have played with toyed placing TEGs right inside of an automobile catalytic converter, or even along the exhaust system to generate electricity with the waste heat.

            They are also used along natural gas pipelines – they have lots of gas, but no electricity!

            A great company in Calgary is a world leader in thermo-electric-generators (TEG’s). Their unit with a burner produce 5000 watts. You could thus modify their devoices to have such a burner + TEG heat water in a boiler, and the electricity you get would hardly reduce the heating of the water by any noticeable amount.

            A GREAT video on TEGS can be found on this page – just scroll down a bit – the video is quite enlarged on their main page:

            http://www.genthermglobalpower.com/

            The video is short – but I suggest those here watch the video.

            With higher temp e-cat producing LOTS of heat, then the TEGS the company makes would work well with LENR devices.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob Greenyer

            About the energy generation… There are several approaches that I can immediately think of that would lead to DC

            1.It could work on alpha or beta voltaic principles – though the production rate from a given volume may not create practical power in the kW range.

            2. Efficient TEG (Thermo Electric Generator)

            3. Photo voltaic (Alumina is good at converting heat into light)

          • Owen Geiger

            TEG seems unlikely since Rossi seems to indicate something new from the E-Cat X = direction production of electricity. TEG could be utilized on the older E-Cat, correct?

          • Bob Greenyer

            AFAIK, Rossi had a business once making TEGs

          • Winebuff67

            He’s not getting any younger. I hope part of his dream is to see this on a mass produced scale and benefitting the world. he has patents. now is the time to put out a mass produced heating unit and end all speculation once and for all. Darden needs to come front and center and make a splash with the new product. Ok….rant over.

          • Axil Axil

            What about the breakdown of nucleons into electrons.?

          • Bob Greenyer

            That would still be beta voltaic – but – granted, the output would be orders of magnitude higher.

        • Roland

          Granting that you’re actually interested in learning something about the E-cat read the Lugano report and get some facts regarding COP as your ‘beliefs’ are baseless.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Wow, that is a real bombshell.

    I have SEVERAL times stated that from previous comments we cannot tell if the ecat-x is producing electricity directly or not. However, several readers “hinted” that what Rossi was suggesting.

    Turns out those people were correct!

    So the NEXT question is this electric via a thermo-couple, or another process that is the result of the LENR reaction?

    In other words, does the ecat-x produce electricity as a RESULT of adding a simple thermo-couple (say part of the driver system), ***OR*** is the electric generation part of the LENR effect
    in some other way?

    So this could still be a traditional and classic means to produce electricity (like the NASA space probes – they use a thermo-couple).

    So the BIG question here is the electricity being produced by some LENR effect or a simple thermo-electric device of which we known about for 182 years! (that’s when the thermo-couple was discovered).
    So this could still be VERY OLD technology in terms of the electric production.

    Regardless, I think here is the FIRST time that Rossi has stated the ecat-x has a high COP. Now regardless of HOW you spin this, a high COP is a HIGH COP!

    On the other hand, perhaps this carrot is being dangled so Rossi can at the end of the yearlong test state he working on a much better reactor that will require much more testing?

    So the timing of this announcement does give Rossi some real excuse to prolong the introduction of a commercial LENR device AND ALSO keep us on the edge of our chairs for another year or so!

    So the high COP is great news, but the timing does give Rossi MUCH room to prolong a working device for customers.

    A HIGH COP also means that useful electricity can be obtained from a thermo-couple.
    Some needs to ask Rossi this simple question:
    Is the ecat-x electricity produced by a thermo-couple, (and heat)?
    Or is the electricity the result of some other means other then a classic thermo-couple that we known about for the last 182 years?
    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Right, but just a remark that thermocouple is not the only known no-moving-parts way to turn heat into electricity. There is also at least thermophotovoltaics and thermionics.

      • artefact

        Or magnetohydrodynamics like Mills tried to use but he found out that more light in the visible spectrum is produced.

        • Axil Axil

          Mills is using copper. Copper produces light. If he used palladium, he would get mesons.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Sure, it could be some other process.

        However given the relative “nasty” environment of heat surrounding the e-cat,
        and the simplicity and ease that a thermo-couple could be added to the existing
        design? (just wrap some wires around the device!).

        My bets are this is a classic thermo-couple.

        You can see my post further down with some quick “napkin” math – the numbers work out quite well. The end result is the electricity would provide the driver electricity to keep the LENR device going – in effect it would self-sustain since the input driver (heat) in the form of electricity would be generated by the device itself. And the design of a thermo-electric into such devices is relative simple.

        The above also explains why the COP would be so high. One does not really care that the conversion of heat into electricity is low (say 5-8%), that’s all you need to keep the device going and self-sustain.

        At an 8% conversion rate, then a LENR devoice with a COP of 12.5 mean you NOW have an unlimited COP by the SIMPLE addition of a thermo-electric device.

        So the “simplest” explanation here is likely what Rossi has done.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Monty

          So why does rossi speak of “the efficiency is very high” ?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Because Rossi is talking about the COP of the device from a heat point of view, NOT that of efficient electric production.

            If the device generates even a RELATIVE small amount of electricity, then that electricity generated simply means LESS INPUT energy (electricity) is required to drive the device.

            Less input energy in the form of electricity results in a high COP of the device producing heat.

            So when Rossi speaks of efficiently, he not talking about “low” effect and low efficiently of heat to electric, but the HIGH COP that results from this simple addition of a thermo-electric device.

            Reducing electric input amounts = VERY HIGH COP.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            i dont agree with u. he is talking about both. high efficiency and high COP…

          • clovis ray

            yep, i agree, frank ask, Is the amount of electricity being produced at the moment large enough to be (practical and useful?)
            Answer –yes

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, if the device produces excess electricity overall then the COP is unlimited and has ZERO meaning in this context.

            In other words, if the electrical production provides all of the electricity required, then COP is not relevant anymore and makes no sense in this context.

            If you have excess electricity, then you don’t need nor have a COP anymore.

            Thus a “very high” COP suggests the device produces CLOSE to the electric requirements to drive the device. If the device produces MORE than the electric requirements, then you don’t need nor have a COP anymore.

            The system will self-sustain and you don’t have a COP anymore if this is the case.

            Thus why would Ross state a VERY high COP in place of simply stating the device can self-sustain?

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            maybe he says a very high COP because he looks at what goes in and what comes out and calculates the factor between in and out.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right but now the input power = 0. And to calculate the COP you then be forced to divide by zero. Last time I looked, that’s not possible!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Monty

            wow. is incredible how much you know. who told you the input power is 0?

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Well, not quite!

            I am saying that if the device produces excess electricity, then the input requirements are by logic are zero. That’s basic math talking, and not subject to opinion. You have to talk to the math community if you disagree with this grade school math!

            I fully admit that I (we) don’t know if the device can produce excess electricity beyond the device’s requirements, but if it does, then you would be attempting to argue with basic math and not my logic or statements which are based on such.

            There is no COP to be calculated and this is basic math talking, not subject to my or anyone’s opinion.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Jouni Tuomela

            Hello Albert D. Kallal
            Please do be informed of recent findings from LHC, some new particles have been found to exist.
            Mathematics is the foundations of all, but physics still rules OK.

            Br Jouni
            Maksjoki, Lohja, Finland

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Right, but you not standing here telling me to stop doing math, are you?

            Or worse, you telling me to avoid how math works!

            The fact of some new discovery in any field does not mean we stop doing math and stop making conclusions based on math, does it?

            The simple issue is if excess electricity beyond the requirements of the device is being produced, then we don’t have a COP anymore. What goes on inside that box, or some new discovery of some new particle or some new physics does not change this simple observation.

            Surely you not suggesting we toss out grade school math, are you?
            Either the device requires input energy, or it is able to provide its own or excess in the context of this discussion.

            It is fruitless and pointless to argue basic math here.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Roland

            I think we can assume that there is still an initial quantity of input power, which I suspect is delivered in the form of field effects rather than heat, required to initiate the reaction, subsequent to which the reactor becomes self-sustaining while outputting electricity and heat.

            In this sense, once the reaction has been initiated, COP could be considered irrelevant; on the other hand I would suggest that the control of the ongoing reaction still requires energy and as such there is still a calculable COP that is a measure of the efficiency and precision of the energy required by the control mechanism, and that COP would continue to improve until the precision of the applied field effects was absolute.

            The same reasoning could also be applied to the output side where the realized efficiency of harvesting the total energy of the reaction is reflected in the COP.

            In either case, given that the previous generation E-cat’s COP was on the order of > 80 and the X-cat improves on this, as the COP increases beyond these rough figures higher numbers represent incrementally smaller and smaller gains.

            We, or at least Rossi, are over the hump…

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t think he should state “the device can self-sustain” if he hasn’t ever run it without an external power source.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Why? If the electric output is in excess of input requirements, then it most certainly reasonable to state as such.

            He can’t claim that the device **is** self sustaining, but you most certainly can and should claim that if the device is producing more electricity then it requires, then you as noted don’t have a COP anymore and most certainly should state the device can self sustain. There really no other logical way to reason this out.
            Excess electric means the input requirements = 0, and as I pointed out then you do NOT have a COP nor can you calculate one since you then be forced to do some math that forces you to divide by zero!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, AlbertaCanada

          • Brent Buckner

            For example, perhaps the device outputs power that is noisier than it requires as input. Then it would not be correct to state that “the device can self-sustain” – rather it would be correct to state that “the device on average produces more power than it requires and with modification it might be able to self-sustain”.

          • artefact

            We heard that the COP of the normal e-cat is arround COP 20 – 80. The e-cat X is said to be even better. The e-cat x is 3,5 kW (made out of 3 sub reactors). So it would not require something special to get infinite COP (~70 W at COP 50). That makes me think that the excess electricity is much higher.

          • Michael S

            Maybe it’s better to some/ for a certain time understate ?

        • Allan Shura

          All large boilers including the ones around Edmonton are insulated from
          heat.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Sure but the thermo-electric conversion occurs at the heat source, not the heat storage device. So while the boiler is insulated, the thermo-electric devoice would be placed right above or at the burner. The “heat” energy such a thermo-electric device uses is negligible. (very little heat is lost and used up).

            The result is “near” free electricity from that heat when THEN goes on to heat the boiler. As noted, such TEGS are used in the nuclear power packs that power NASA space probes.

            There are some companies that have played with toyed placing TEGs right inside of an automobile catalytic converter, or even along the exhaust system to generate electricity with the waste heat.

            They are also used along natural gas pipelines – they have lots of gas, but no electricity!

            A great company in Calgary is a world leader in thermo-electric-generators (TEG’s). Their unit with a burner produce 5000 watts. You could thus modify their devoices to have such a burner + TEG heat water in a boiler, and the electricity you get would hardly reduce the heating of the water by any noticeable amount.

            A GREAT video on TEGS can be found on this page – just scroll down a bit – the video is quite enlarged on their main page:

            http://www.genthermglobalpower.com/

            The video is short – but I suggest those here watch the video.

            With higher temp e-cat producing LOTS of heat, then the TEGS the company makes would work well with LENR devices.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • clovis ray

          Hi, Albert.

          I think here Dr, R is saying it is producing AC current, just plug in, smile.

          Here is the big new: yes, the E-Cat X produces
          (directly electric power).We are working to harness and make it work.

          I could be wrong of course, but though the years i have learned to translate
          Dr.R lengo pretty well, he only settles for the best. no half ass products.

  • GreenWin

    Irony for Americans: “Secretary of the Interior James G. Watt asked President Reagan’s
    forgiveness today for making a ”morally offensive” statement in
    describing an advisory panel as ideally balanced for including ”a
    black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/23/us/watt-asks-that-reagan-forgive-offensive-remark-about-panel.html

  • Monty

    its all about a changing (e.g. pulsating) electromagnetic field the reaction has to have. the rest is trivial…

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi is producing mesons just like Holmlid is. Electrons are a decay product of mesons.

  • Mats002

    Yes sometimes exactly that picture comes to my mind. I am still open for that outcome but the evidences of LENR as a real phenomenon have been piling up to a level where I am since long convinced that it is serious science that is mistreated. Money should poor into LENR research, both official tax money and private patient capital, and I am very happy to see this happen!

    Rossi is right about that the only 100% convincing proof of useful LENR is products on the market. To me that could be a DIY kit to replicate the effect at will. Like a toy steam engine it would make people experience the new fire for themself.

    Until then I am a believer with some uncertiancy.

    • Axil Axil

      The method in which the UV level LENR reaction works is that a monopole beam produced by SPPs disrupts the protons and neutrons in the nucleus which then results is meson production, at least K-mesons and maybe even more shorter lived and higher energy mesons. These mesons decay into pions and then muons and finally electrons. For each meson produced, at least one electron and maybe multiple electrons are generated base on the meson decay path. This direct electrical energy generation method was how the Papp engine produced over unity power where that overcharge of one cylinder produced the power that generated the electric arc that powered the other cylinder. The hard part to engineer in this type of system is the gathering of the electric charge. The Papp engine used alpha radiation produced by radium. Bob Rehner is using thorium in his system. I thought that thorium was restricted by NRC regulation. Rossi has to find a way to extract these newly created electrons from the system without the help of alpha radiation to positively polarize the gathering electrodes because excess negative electric charge will disrupt the basic meson reaction. The Plasmatron is a plasma based system that also used this LENR method to produce excess electric power. The COP on the Plasmatron was 5.

      In general, the type and form of power that LENR will produce is dictated by the wavelength of light used to stimulate the SPPs. Rossi must be using palladium because that metal works best at UV frequencies. UV LENR using iridium will produce mesons as Holmlid has shown.

      • Warthog

        “I thought that thorium was restricted by NRC regulation.”

        It depends on the chemical form and quantity. You can buy thorium oxide mantels for propane and kerosene lanterns over the counter at any hardware or sporting goods store. This falls in the category of the “General License Quantity”, which basically means anyone can buy it without filling out any regulatory documentation.

    • Mats002

      This story really need some official open replications. Mills have been going on for – what is it – 25(?) years without a product on market. Private companies can race each other using patient capital for decades without launching any product as long as the investors see payback later on.

      This X-Cat just made it very likely that Rossi/IH will prolong time to market for the first LENR product. Would be nice to be proved wrong about that.

      • Bob Greenyer

        This is a real concern.

        However – if he is cleaver like Apple, then he can sell the old tech first – milk the market and then come in with paradigm shift 2.0

        Minimum viable product would be a heater that bests a heat pump for COP enough to be worth changing production lines for.

      • Brokeeper

        Thanks very much Roger, however the frequency output is apparently incorrect from Rossi’s response about the output being DC vs AC. Still it is all very exciting isn’t it?. What a trip.

      • Brent Buckner

        There’s a large literature on product cycles that considers savings versus present technology and expected improvements; I expect that Darden knows its lessons well.
        (e.g. http://www.jstor.org/stable/40751117?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents ).

      • LarryJ

        IH/Darden already have a lot of skin and influence in this game and they will want a return sooner than later. They also have a strong humanitarian bent as does Rossi. I don’t think this new development will delay the introduction of the low temperature industrial reactors, however it could greatly advance the cause for a total CHP solution for home use.

  • Brent Buckner

    The phrase “producing electricity directly” has enough flexibility that people use it respective of aneutronic fusion (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_energy_conversion ).

  • Brokeeper

    Fulvio Fabiani said: “We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is ‘nothing in comparison’. You cannot imagine.” And Andrea Rossi said: “The E-Cat X
    produces DIRECTLY electric power.” Both statements imply, IMO, the E-Cat catalyzation is directly producing electricity and/or osculating electromagnetism with no intervening device.
    It may be possible the input controlling frequencies are being significantly amplified by the internal reactive processes and transformed to electricity by additional tuned inductive windings.

  • Brokeeper

    Fulvio Fabiani said: “We really saw things… I really saw the new frontier of energy. There is ‘nothing in comparison’. You cannot imagine.” And Andrea Rossi said: “The E-Cat X
    produces DIRECTLY electric power.” Both statements imply, IMO, the E-Cat catalyzation is directly producing electricity and/or osculating electromagnetism with no intervening device.
    It may be possible the input controlling frequencies are being significantly amplified by the internal reactive processes and transformed to electricity by additional tuned inductive windings.

    • bachcole

      God!!! I love this comment. Thank you for reminding me of what Fulvio Fabiani said. And your interpretation is the only one that makes sense to me, and I embrace it as true until someone can come up with a better reason why it is not true.

      • Brokeeper

        Thanks very much Roger, however the frequency output is apparently incorrect from Rossi’s response about the output being DC vs AC. Still it is all very exciting isn’t it?. What a trip.

  • Of all the theories, I think the coil makes the most sense. The other options are expensive and bulky and I don’t think the efficiency is there with current technology.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Rossi just answered to Andreas Moraitis that output is DC. That seems to rule out magnetic field.

      • GreenWin

        Dr. George Miley has designed current producing systems that place electrodes directly into a fusion plasma. If E-X’s reaction creates an electron rich plasma (electrostatic per Gerard McEk) – it would output DC.

  • Of all the theories, I think the coil makes the most sense. The other options are expensive and bulky and I don’t think the efficiency is there with current technology.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Rossi just answered to Andreas Moraitis that output is DC. That seems to rule out magnetic field.

      • GreenWin

        Dr. George Miley has designed current producing systems that place electrodes directly into a fusion plasma. If E-X’s reaction creates an electron rich plasma (electrostatic per Gerard McEk) – it would output DC.

  • Gerard McEk

    Great!
    This thread is exploding… I can hardly keep up with reading all the comments.
    As an electrical engineer I am very much interested in the way the ‘direct electricity’ is being harvested. Because it has a high efficiency I assume that the emission E-cat emission is either:
    1. Magnetically: if it is a low frequency alternating magnetic field, a coil (inductor) will do, to generate electricity efficiently.
    2. Electrostatically: The Ecat is emitting loaded particles: Either Electrons (-) or protons or alpha particles (both +). You can collect these with a metal cylinder around the Ecat. Direct current electricity will flow from the reactor core to the cylinder.
    3. Electromagnetically. Higher alternating electromagnetic frequencies can be concerted into electricity with a proper dimensioned inductor/capacitor combination.
    I do not expect that AR uses a thermomagnetic conversion because of its low efficiency and I would not call that ‘direct’ in electrical way of speaking.
    So how is AR making his electricity with the Ecat X?
    I hope to hear that from him soon.
    I would not be surprised that once the LENR process is activated the Ecat can be controlled directly with the power drawn from the Ecat!

    • Gerard McEk

      Looking to the comments above the 2. Is the most obvious.

    • Valeriy Tarasov

      In addition:
      4. Photoelectric conversion.
      5. Static electric charge generated by nuclei fission reaction.

      • Gerard McEk

        I would not call 4. ‘direct’ and 5. is similar to 2. ?

        • Valeriy Tarasov

          Similar (with some kind of + and – charge separation device), but it is also possible a new static electricity effect, not in frame of the current knowledge.

          • Gerard McEk

            I doubt a new static electrical effect at this moment. We need more information.

          • pg

            Is it just my impression or it feels like Rossi and IH have parted ways? He does not refer to them any more, but only to Leonardo Corporation.

          • Bob

            It is a concern. However, after several months of silence, Darden did make a short announcement back in the fall. This was after several posters raised this very question. Rossi then also posted that all was good between the two.
            .
            Rossi has indeed changed his tone over the past year. At one time, he gushed openly about IH / Darden relationship and how they were of one mind, one intention etc. How this major corporation, which he had become chief scientist of, was providing all that he needed. He now never mentions them, but always Leonardo Corp. He never states that he is Chief Scientist anymore. It is a bit strange. Some state the patent application is proof, but that was applied for a year ago, so much could happen in the mean time.
            .
            I certainly hope there has been no falling out. Darden is the only thing that gives me any confidence with Rossi at present. If IH / Darden goes the way of Seimens and National Instruments, it will be a grave statement indeed.
            .
            In lieu of a publication from Darden….I continue to wait…

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Someone with weight should simply ask Dr. Rossi a proper question about it. If he says there’s not been a parting of the ways then there’s nothing to worry about. If he says nothing at all or equivocates about it, that’s something to worry about.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      The high efficiently is the high COP of the LENR device, not some high efficiency of the electric production. (see my other comments)

      • Gerard McEk

        The update tells us that electricity is efficiently produced. Later replies of AR tells us it is DC. I guess it is either particles harvested in the core plasma or emitted from the Ecat.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Hey, I would love to eat crow on this being something more then just a thermo-couple. There is “some” wiggle room in the terms used, since a thermo-couple is a VERY efficient way to produce electricity without a penalty and cost.
          So if efficient means without a cost to performance, then such a statement does not mean electricity conversion is high, but occurs without cost and thus is still deemed a VERY efficient way to produce electricity. If the electric is due to some other means, then so be it – but one can argue that electricity for near free is efficient even if the conversion rate into that electricity is low.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Gerard McEk

            Well Albert, I have some doubt that AR talks about ‘efficient’ in economical terms as you seem to do. I think he talks about harvesting electricity technically efficiently.
            I do also believe that if he increases the directly generated current, then the LENR process intensifies and if he reduces it, the LENR process slows down. Electrostatic fields may be the basis for LENR!
            Regards, Gerard

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Rossi is often complicated, and statements are often open ended.

            I guess the question to be asked is thus:

            Is the electricity produced sufficient to power the e-cat-x or is there an EXCESS of electricity produced overall that could be used to provide the home or factory with excess electricity thus providing the home or factory electrical needs with this device?

            I don’t think it needs to be pointed out that the COP becomes meaningless with the above answer.
            Excess electricity means the COP is unlimited.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Gerard McEk

    Great!
    This thread is exploding… I can hardly keep up with reading all the comments.
    As an electrical engineer I am very much interested in the way the ‘direct electricity’ is being harvested. Because it has a high efficiency I assume that the emission E-cat emission is either:
    1. Magnetically: if it is a low frequency alternating magnetic field, a coil (inductor) will do, to generate electricity efficiently.
    2. Electrostatically: The Ecat is emitting loaded particles: Either Electrons (-) or protons or alpha particles (both +). You can collect these with a metal cylinder around the Ecat. Direct current electricity will flow from the reactor core to the cylinder.
    3. Electromagnetically. Higher alternating electromagnetic frequencies can be concerted into electricity with a proper dimensioned inductor/capacitor combination.
    I do not expect that AR uses a thermomagnetic conversion because of its low efficiency and I would not call that ‘direct’ in electrical way of speaking.
    So how is AR making his electricity with the Ecat X?
    I hope to hear that from him soon.
    I would not be surprised that once the LENR process is activated the Ecat can be controlled directly with the power drawn from the Ecat!

    • Gerard McEk

      Looking to the comments above the 2. Is the most obvious. I does not comply with the Lugano test though…. So Ecat X is so much different?

    • Valeriy Tarasov

      In addition:
      4. Photoelectric conversion.
      5. Static electric charge generated by nuclei fission reaction.

      • Gerard McEk

        I would not call 4. ‘direct’ and 5. is similar to 2. ?

        • Valeriy Tarasov

          Similar (with some kind of + and – charge separation device), but it is also possible a new static electricity effect, not in frame of the current knowledge.

          • Gerard McEk

            I doubt a new static electrical effect at this moment. We need more information.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      The high efficiently is the high COP of the LENR device, not some high efficiency of the electric production. (see my other comments)

      • Gerard McEk

        The update tells us that electricity is efficiently produced. Later replies of AR tells us it is DC. I guess it is either particles harvested in the core plasma or emitted from the Ecat.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Hey, I would love to eat crow on this being something more then just a thermo-couple. There is “some” wiggle room in the terms used, since a thermo-couple is a VERY efficient way to produce electricity without a penalty and cost.
          So if efficient means without a cost to performance, then such a statement does not mean electricity conversion is high, but occurs without cost and thus is still deemed a VERY efficient way to produce electricity. If the electric is due to some other means, then so be it – but one can argue that electricity for near free is efficient even if the conversion rate into that electricity is low.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Gerard McEk

            Well Albert, I have some doubt that AR talks about ‘efficient’ in economical terms as you seem to do. I think he talks about harvesting electricity technically efficiently.
            I do also believe that if he increases the directly generated current, then the LENR process intensifies and if he reduces it, the LENR process slows down. Electrostatic fields may be the basis for LENR!
            Regards, Gerard

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Rossi is often complicated, and statements are often open ended.

            I guess the question to be asked is thus:

            Is the electricity produced sufficient to power the e-cat-x or is there an EXCESS of electricity produced overall that could be used to provide the home or factory with excess electricity thus providing the home or factory electrical needs with this device?

            I don’t think it needs to be pointed out that the COP becomes meaningless with the above answer.
            Excess electricity means the COP is unlimited.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Jas

    Ha! All those people that said they would only believe in the E-Cat when it could make a cup of tea.

  • Axil Axil

    The method in which the UV level LENR reaction works is that a monopole beam produced by SPPs disrupts the protons and neutrons in the nucleus which then results is meson production, at least K-mesons and maybe even more shorter lived and higher energy mesons. These mesons decay into pions and then muons and finally electrons. For each meson produced, at least one electron and maybe multiple electrons are generated base on the meson decay path. This direct electrical energy generation method was how the Papp engine produced over unity power where that overcharge of one cylinder produced the power that generated the electric arc that powered the other cylinder. The hard part to engineer in this type of system is the gathering of the electric charge. The Papp engine used alpha radiation produced by radium. Bob Rehner is using thorium in his system. I thought that thorium was restricted by NRC regulation. Rossi has to find a way to extract these newly created electrons from the system without the help of alpha radiation to positively polarize the gathering electrodes because excess negative electric charge will disrupt the basic meson reaction. The Plasmatron is a plasma based system that also used this LENR method to produce excess electric power. The COP on the Plasmatron was 5.

    In general, the type and form of power that LENR will produce is dictated by the wavelength of light used to stimulate the SPPs. Rossi must be using palladium because that metal works best at UV frequencies. UV LENR using iridium will produce mesons as Holmlid has shown.

    • Warthog

      “I thought that thorium was restricted by NRC regulation.”

      It depends on the chemical form and quantity. You can buy thorium oxide mantels for propane and kerosene lanterns over the counter at any hardware or sporting goods store. This falls in the category of the “General License Quantity”, which basically means anyone can buy it without filling out any regulatory documentation.

  • Axil Axil

    Other LENR systems have produce excess electrons in the past. Rossi is not the first.

  • keV

    This leads us back to the ultimate question that has been surrounding ecat for years:
    Does this new E-CatX produce enough electricity to enable a full self-generating power cycle. Even if it means using a battery to store the electrical output whilst in SSM mode, and then using that stored electrical energy to sustain the reaction whilst not in SSM mode.

    I am guessing not, but this iteration may be a big step towards that ultimate power machine (the utopian device that I think all readers here dream about).

    • Omega Z

      At the very least, you would need a battery with the inverters & additional hardware. You could also have multiple systems linked to a micro-grid for redundancy.

      No matter what you do, you will need an external power source. Simply because you need power to start it & should it experience even temporary instability, it will shut down or melt down.

  • deleo77

    If Rossi is literally staring at a device with the capabilities he describes in the E-Cat X today, I would simply ask (or make that beg) him and Tom Darden to file the necessary patents and protections, and then demonstrate this device on 60 Minutes. They do not have to open up the cover to show what’s inside, they could simply show that it works and that the device meets all necessary environmental and safety’s regulations.

    I won’t lie and say that I would like to see this demonstration of the E-Cat X out of an amazing sense of curiosity, but I think it goes further than that. If they simply do a brief public demonstration of the E-Cat X, the world could save hundreds of billions of dollars not pursuing other clean energy projects. The best minds in science and industry could come together and engineer the E-cat X to a place where it could be commercialized. Investors would line up to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into its development, likely speeding up the path to commercialization.

    People can say that Rossi has gotten this far by iterating on his own in secrecy, and I agree with that. If this turns out to be the story of a lone genius who needed solitude to make his discoveries, then that will be a great story. But perhaps Rossi should realize that it is time to share what he has with the world. If the E-Cat X is currently humming away at a very high level of efficiency and COP as he says, Rossi and Darden should realize the time has come to show it to the world. IH is a private company and they can do what they’d like, but I do hope they come to a place where they realize that the world needs to see this, and their company will only benefit from that.

    • LindbergofSwed

      I agree, it will be easy to prove efficency from electricity to electricity. does not need long time to prove.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Close the loop.

        enough said.

    • Mats002

      Papp and Mills are two examples of lone genius who never and so far ever launched their inventions to market. I hope not to add Andrea Rossi to that category of genius.

    • GreenWin

      @deleo77, I share your tautological frustration, and commiserate. But, you see, we unfortunates have so little ground to stand on as Rossi/IH are a private entity with absolutely NO obligation to US or the general public until they deem it right.

      HOWEVER, as has been stated by ECW regulars, Rossi has sold an E-Cat to an [agency] of the U.S. government. Which makes the product sold a “property” of the American people. As such, the good Dottore’s “secrets” may already rest in your trembling hand. So, with moral fortitude and demand for tax-payed information – YOU have legal right to petition the lords of government to set the world free, and fully disclose the details of the E-Cat!

      It is, a tale as old as time, a song as old as rhyme, deleo. Though we be beauty, and guv’ment the beast… THEY are the old Scrooge in this tale. What say WE go forth together, file an FOI request and “unleash the hounds?”

      Best wishes for a Happy New Year! 🙂

      • US_Citizen71

        I wouldn’t hold your breath. The NAVY won’t even admit to existence of the synthetic line snap back movie that I and at least 100,000 other recruits were required to watch during basic training because no one remembers the exact title or the milspec number for it. Do you know the name of the program it was purchased under or the classification number it was assigned?

  • deleo77

    If Rossi is literally staring at a device with the capabilities he describes in the E-Cat X today, I would simply ask (or make that beg) him and Tom Darden to file the necessary patents and protections, and then demonstrate this device on 60 Minutes. They do not have to open up the cover to show what’s inside, they could simply show that it works and that the device meets all necessary environmental and safety’s regulations.

    I won’t lie and say that I would like to see this demonstration of the E-Cat X out of an amazing sense of curiosity, but I think it goes further than that. If they simply do a brief public demonstration of the E-Cat X, the world could save hundreds of billions of dollars not pursuing other clean energy projects. The best minds in science and industry could come together and engineer the E-cat X to a place where it could be commercialized. Investors would line up to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into its development, likely speeding up the path to commercialization.

    People can say that Rossi has gotten this far by iterating on his own in secrecy, and I agree with that. If this turns out to be the story of a lone genius who needed solitude to make his discoveries, then that will be a great story. But perhaps Rossi should realize that it is time to share what he has with the world. If the E-Cat X is currently humming away at a very high level of efficiency and COP as he says, Rossi and Darden should realize the time has come to show it to the world. IH is a private company and they can do what they’d like, but I do hope they come to a place where they realize that the world needs to see this, and their company will only benefit from that.

    • LindbergofSwed

      I agree, it will be easy to prove efficency from electricity to electricity. does not need long time to prove.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Close the loop.

        enough said.

    • Mats002

      Papp and Mills are two examples of lone genius who never and so far ever launched their inventions to market. I hope not to add Andrea Rossi to that category of genius.

    • Omega Z

      Why does Darden/Rossi need to do that.
      You may have good intentions, but you know what they say,
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

      People belittle & degrade those who work on the fringe, but the minute they get positive results, everyone wants to swoop in and take over. They booted Steve Jobs out & that didn’t work so well. Had they not been able to coerce him into coming back, probably you would have no smart phone.

      I personally think Rossi has done what he needed to do. He partnered with Industrial heat/Tom Darden. Darden is a business man & if you check out Cherokee, you will find he is extremely well connected to the Who’s Who in the business/Industrial World. They have everything in hand as things progress to move forward when the time is right. They simply have No Need to make a public display at this time.

      Going public also wont stop the current energy investments. Even if Darden/Rossi went public, it will be sometime before any products are ready for market. People need energy now. They aren’t going to settle for living in the dark until a product is ready.

      Beyond that, Any energy systems implemented now will likely be used throughout it’s life cycle. It will take that long to transition. You will also be surprised how slow the academic world would change. There is a budget process & calender years to finish out & ongoing work that will not suddenly stop, but continue in the following years.
      —————————————————————
      What you find urgent doesn’t necessarily transcend to the real world.
      Go to the emergency room with a big gash in your leg.
      What’s your name? Whats your address?
      I’m bleeding to death you need to do something.
      We’ll get to that.
      Do you have insurance? If not who’s liable for the bill? Etc, Etc,,,

      I think Rossi’s work is in good hands. Lets let them do their job. It will happen much faster without outside interference.

    • GreenWin

      @deleo77, I share your tautological frustration, and commiserate. But, you see, we unfortunates have so little ground to stand on as Rossi/IH are a private entity with absolutely NO obligation to US or the general public until they deem it right.

      HOWEVER, as has been stated by ECW regulars, Rossi has sold an E-Cat to an [agency] of the U.S. government. Which makes the product sold a “property” of the American people. As such, the good Dottore’s “secrets” may already rest in your trembling hand. So, with moral fortitude and demand for tax-payed information – YOU have legal right to petition the lords of government to set the world free, and fully disclose the details of the E-Cat!

      It is, a tale as old as time, a song as old as rhyme, deleo. Though we be beauty, and guv’ment the beast… THEY are the old Scrooge in this tale. What say WE go forth together, file an FOI request and “unleash the hounds?”

      Best wishes for a Happy New Year! 🙂

      • US_Citizen71

        I wouldn’t hold your breath. The NAVY won’t even admit to existence of the synthetic line snap back movie that I and at least 100,000 other recruits were required to watch during basic training because no one remembers the exact title or the milspec number for it. Do you know the name of the program it was purchased under or the classification number it was assigned?

  • GreenWin

    02 02 02 02… a milestone is here!

    • artefact

      next milestone in 02 days 02 hours 02 minutes.

  • hempenearth

    Sorry if someone has already answered this and I missed it. Is it confirmed that the E-Cat X is in the IH stable or is it exclusively a Leonardo Corp project?

    • ecatworld

      I think Rossi would say it was a Leonardo project. since he says he that the E-Cat X falls within the E-Cat patent, which is assigned to Leonardo Corp.

      • hempenearth

        Thanks Frank, so say two months to get new funding and agreements in place, 6 months of testing, 3 months product development, 1 month for first sales. Products by next Christmas. If 1 MW plant becomes redundant the septics will call it a classic bait and switch. So what, I’m excited.

        • ecatworld

          That’s a pretty short timeframe from product development to first sales. I hope you’re right, but I think it’s possible we’ll have to wait a bit longer than next Christmas for E-Cat X products to be available in the marketplace. We still don’t have the low temperature plants in production yet.

          • hempenearth

            Yep, I was thinking smaller and cheaper equals quicker

          • Brent Buckner

            On the optimistic view:
            o an E-Cat X test next month
            o E-Cat X delivers heat/electricity at half the cost of the low temperature E-Cat
            o in June 2016 the E-Cat X is as much (or more) proven out as the low temperature E-Cat will be in February 2016

      • Omega Z

        Frank,
        The next patent that’s been published but not yet granted is listed to Industrial heat. What isn’t clear is Who owns Who or what the partnership percentages are.

        https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf;jsessionid=DE59BDA5383F1909CC9518422A79F67E.wapp1nA?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCT+Biblio

        Applicants: INDUSTRIAL HEAT, LLC [US/US];
        Inventors: ROSSI, Andrea; (US).
        DAMERON, Thomas Barker; (US)

      • Brent Buckner

        If Leonardo owns any E-Cat X intellectual property I wouldn’t be concerned about commercialization issues if it is (automatically under existing agreements) licensed to IH (in the US and China).

      • Omega Z

        At the very least, you would need a battery with the inverters & additional hardware. You could also have multiple systems linked to a micro-grid for redundancy.

        No matter what you do, you will need an external power source. Simply because you need power to start it & should it experience even temporary instability, it will shut down or melt down.

        • Rossi had previously stated that it would take 20 years for the E-Cat to be used in cars. I wonder if these new developments might not speed that process. We desperately need to get to the point where the public understands that LENR is real. Once that point is reached, there will be allot of pressure on Rossi and the other LENR companies to get things moving faster, and they will have lots of financial backing to help them. It could become an investment bubble like the early days of the Internet. Japanese companies had literally thousands of scientists and engineers working on flat panel television technology, and look how fast that technology has grown and matured. If we get 5,000 scientists and engineers around the world working on LENR, who knows what they may discover. 5,000 is a realistic number. Toshiba alone had 500 engineers working on OLED screen technology, and that is just one mid sized company. Japan, Korea, China, the USA, Europe all have scientists who need gainful employment. LENR could be a money maker for them all.

          • LilyLover

            Is Faraday Future sitting on Chinese money + GM’s Hummer++ Hydroforming technology + waiting on E-Cat X’s success?
            Perhaps not. But now that I said it – the Universe will conspire for it to happen.
            Ha! Ha!! Ha!!!

          • Mats002

            Interesting that you compare LENR and OLED, I think it is a very good study to do.

            Back in early 1992 there was an article about the promise of organic LED in swedish Ny Teknik (not by Mats Lewan though), a professor Gunther Leising, University of Graz i Austria was the goto guy for this discovery. The big thing at that time was how to get the blue – and by that the white color, well by that all the spectrum of colors. Leising did the great break through!

            I see at least two interesting things here:
            a) the timeline from discovery to first product and a large work force
            b) the original people and organisations selldom get the credits they deserve,
            the Nobel prize for blue LED went to another group in Japan, who know anything about Leising today?

          • Tom59

            5000 people is modest – Apple has 800 scientist on the camera of the iphone alone

  • hempenearth

    Sorry if someone has already answered this and I missed it. Is it confirmed that the E-Cat X is in the IH stable or is it exclusively a Leonardo Corp project?

    • Frank Acland

      I think Rossi would say it was a Leonardo project. since he says he that the E-Cat X falls within the E-Cat patent, which is assigned to Leonardo Corp.

      • hempenearth

        Thanks Frank, so say two months to get new funding and agreements in place, 6 months of testing, 3 months product development, 1 month for first sales. Products by next Christmas. If 1 MW plant becomes redundant the septics will call it a classic bait and switch. So what, I’m excited.

        • Frank Acland

          That’s a pretty short timeframe from product development to first sales. I hope you’re right, but I think it’s possible we’ll have to wait a bit longer than next Christmas for E-Cat X products to be available in the marketplace. We still don’t have the low temperature plants in production yet.

          • hempenearth

            Yep, I was thinking smaller and cheaper equals quicker

          • Brent Buckner

            On the optimistic view:
            o an E-Cat X test next month
            o E-Cat X delivers heat/electricity at half the cost of the low temperature E-Cat
            o in June 2016 the E-Cat X is as much (or more) proven out as the low temperature E-Cat will be in February 2016

      • Omega Z

        Frank,
        The next patent that’s been published but not yet granted is listed to Industrial heat. What isn’t clear is Who owns Who or what the partnership percentages are.

        https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf;jsessionid=DE59BDA5383F1909CC9518422A79F67E.wapp1nA?docId=WO2015127263&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCT+Biblio

        Applicants: INDUSTRIAL HEAT, LLC [US/US];
        Inventors: ROSSI, Andrea; (US).
        DAMERON, Thomas Barker; (US)

      • Brent Buckner

        If Leonardo owns any E-Cat X intellectual property I wouldn’t be concerned about commercialization issues if it is (automatically under existing agreements) licensed to IH (in the US and China).

  • Oh Dear!
    If this is true, the world just became A different place.
    42 days 24/7 and he just noticed it produces DC?
    I am glad that I live in interesting times.

    • GreenWin

      No twobo… AR just gave YOU notice. But I agree, it is hard to find oneself outside the inner circle. Oh well, Happy New Year!

  • Mats002

    This story really need some official open replications. Mills have been going on for – what is it – 25(?) years without a product on market. Private companies can race each other using patient capital for decades without launching any product as long as the investors see payback later on.

    This X-Cat just made it very likely that Rossi/IH will prolong time to market for the first LENR product. Would be nice to be proved wrong about that.

    • Bob Greenyer

      This is a real concern.

      However – if he is cleaver like Apple, then he can sell the old tech first – milk the market and then come in with paradigm shift 2.0

      Minimum viable product would be a heater that bests a heat pump for COP enough to be worth changing production lines for.

    • Brent Buckner

      There’s a large literature on product cycles that considers savings versus present technology and expected improvements; I expect that Darden knows its lessons well.
      (e.g. http://www.jstor.org/stable/40751117?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents ).

    • LarryJ

      IH/Darden already have a lot of skin and influence in this game and they will want a return sooner than later. They also have a strong humanitarian bent as does Rossi. I don’t think this new development will delay the introduction of the low temperature industrial reactors, however it could greatly advance the cause for a total CHP solution for home use.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Could technology be moving too fast for the economy to keep up?

    • Buck

      When you are talking about a technology that can and likely will replace about 8% of the Global Economy, from exploration to maintenance and distribution, then I think it is VERY FAIR to say that this would be too fast for the economy, much less, cultures, states, or nations to digest without severe repercussions.

      Just my opinion. You should ask Putin what he thinks.

      • pg

        But when such technology benefits greatly at least 90% of the world, I don’t see the problem, any new tech is set to upset a part of the establishment, and in this case probably the worst kind, so cheers.

        • Buck

          PG,
          I am 100% in support of this transition. I think the benefits far out distance the costs.

          However, I think it very wise to recognize the difference between phasing this transition over a 20-40 time frame versus an intense deadline driven 5-10 year effort. This is because we are talking about peoples livelihoods . . . their means to feed their children and their ability to move (with education) from one job/industry to another. This is as close to a trigger for unrest, civil disobedience, and war as one can get IMHO.

          Just look at the states/nations having budgets heavily dependent upon fossil fuel revenue and taxes. Russia is an inflammatory example. Putin is quickly loosing the revenue base supporting a “healthy” economy. And, what happens to the tinderbox of the middle east. Some barbarians hatefully suggest making the sand “glow” with destruction to get rid of the problem of people being rendered irrelevant by these changes.

          And looking at the other side of the balance.

          Look at the states/nations which have been impacted by the fact of Climate Change where the most obvious/easiest examples to cite are the rise in sea levels and changing extremes of rain/monsoon and tornado/hurricane/typhoon weather patterns. Some nations are simply disappearing under the water contrary to those who assert that the islands will “float” above the rising oceans.

          So, I think it fair to say that caution is very appropriate during this transition.

          • Brent Buckner

            What nations are “simply disappearing under the water”? Please let me know. (And perhaps which have been impacted by any acceleration relative to rates that correspond to simply emerging from an ice age).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Right at the moment, the North of England!

            About 20 years ago, they said if the climate models were right – Britain would get wetter… well, it is clearly getting wetter.

          • Agaricus

            Scotland rising while England sinks is an example of ‘post-glacial rebound’ – the rebalancing that is still taking place following the melting of the ice-age glaciation.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound

            http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=555&cookieConsent=A

          • Jonnyb

            Two almost peaks within around 15 years (1991 to 2000?) can’t see this anywhere else, so no general upward trend but?

          • Fibber McGourlick

            The simple way to show it’s real and functioning is to incorporate a feedback loop to the LENR reactor such that the necessary fraction of the electricity it outputs takes over the input electricity required to sustain it after it’s running.

          • georgehants

            Water stress and drought
            Global- and national-scale studies included here project that the vulnerability to water
            stress with climate change is mainly focussed in the south and south-east of the UK.
            These regions are projected to experience an increase in the frequency of droughts
            and water stress with climate change. However, the rest of the UK may be relatively
            unaffected by changes in water availability with climate change.
            Recent simulations by the AVOID programme
            project that the UK could experience a
            moderate increase in water stress with climate change, although the median estimate
            of the models used suggests no increase in water stress with climate change for the
            UK by 2100.
            http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/t/r/UK.pdf

          • Bob Greenyer

            And the recent floods happened in many places because the METOFFICE climate models did not predict rainfall this high.

          • artefact

            “Italo R. December 27th, 2015 at 11:38 AM
            Dear Dr. Rossi, does the E-Cat-X produce electricity also during SSM periods?
            Kind Regards, Italo R.

            Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 1:01 PM
            Italo R.: Yes.
            Warm Regards, A.R.”

          • Da Phys

            Direct production of electricity with a E-Cat-type device would be a second miracle. Let’s first wait for a confirmation of the first miracle, hopefully in the next few months.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Syria

          • Brent Buckner

            Not according to my source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.SRF.TOTL.K2

            What’s yours? Please advise.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            The civil war started after “the most intense drought ever recorded in Syria which lasted from 2007 to 2010 and that resulted in a widespread crop failure, increase in food prices and a mass migration of farming families to urban centers.[130]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War#Background

          • Brent Buckner

            That does not reference decreasing surface area due to sea level rise, so does not interest me respective of this thread. I’ll try to bear it in mind if there’s another thread about drought.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Climate change includes the effects of drought

          • Brent Buckner

            That has nothing to do with the assertion that spurred my questioning (“Some nations are simply disappearing under the water”). As you were answering a different question, it would have helped me if you told me so up front!

          • Buck

            Brent,

            The recent Paris conference was led off by examples that fit the bill. I believe they spoke before all . . . pointing out the absolute need to move whole populations.

            The easiest for me to recall is Micronesia. However, if you look at the maps in the Washington Post article, you will find more examples. If you look at the IDRC report focused upon SE Asia, you will find more details. Google can provide even more examples and news articles.

            WPost >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/02/03/the-countries-most-vulnerable-to-climate-change-in-3-maps/

            IDRC >> http://www.idrc.ca/EN/Documents/climate-change-vulnerability-mapping-sa.pdf

            However, if you want to argue the irrelevance of man’s contribution to Climate Change, then I suggest you consider the “Grandparent Test” where a grandparent looks to follow or ignore the advice of experts based upon the 97% – 3% expert weighting on the advice.

          • Brent Buckner

            Those maps are for “vulnerability”, not for presently decreasing surface area. I asked because I have read that the surface area of the Maldives has not been decreasing (contrary to suggestions from the government of Maldives), so was looking for something current rather than a projection.

          • Buck

            My example of Micronesia stands.

            LINK>> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/global-warming-micronesia-island-nations-threatened-sea-level/story?id=9280340

            However, the attached LA Times article points out that 20 of the Maldives islands have gone under. So, your conclusion does not seem to stand.

            LINK>> http://highschool.latimes.com/hs-insider/a-vanishing-paradise-the-maldives-expected-to-be-swallowed-by-the-ocean-in-the-future/

          • Brent Buckner

            My source differs: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.SRF.TOTL.K2
            but you’ve given me something to follow up on – thanks!

          • wonderboy

            oh no.. does this mean there will be no commercial low temperature ecat? I can see them skipping this if it is too unstable.

          • Axil Axil

            I can see Rossi discarding the old reactor design and going with the new design. This type of delay is produced by a lack of competition for market share,

          • Owen Geiger

            Investors like Woodford may not fund a production plant for anything but the more efficient E-Cat X. As eager as Rossi is to get product to market, he still has to please investors. Who would want to sink $50-100 million into a factory to produce reactors that will be outdated in months or maybe a year?

          • LarryJ

            The industrial cat and the ecat-x are two different products. I would imagine that the low temperature reactors would be more reliable than the much higher temperature ecat-x, they have almost a full year of testing completed and there is a huge market for large industrial low temperature reactors. Don’t forget that the lifetime of the industrial reactors is promised to be decades. That might be tough for something with surface temperatures that melt nickel. I think they would be more likely to modify the low temperature design to allow easy retrofitting of newer technology as it matures but the market for the low temperature steam is just too big to ignore.

          • Barbierir

            My head is spinning for too much mind-boggliness.

          • Bob

            Well….. I had hoped for a Christmas present. I am not sure if this is a present or not!.
            .
            My “wish list” was a statement from Tom Darden. What seems to have been put in the stocking was another Rossi announcement.
            .
            Is this good news or bad news? If the current 1MW test and design is dropped for this new eCatX (which others have posted as a possibility) and that the eCatx is another year or two down the road, shrouded by new secret customers, secret referees and random 400 day tests, then this is a bad gift and news indeed.
            .
            If the eCatX produces COP significantly higher than 1, it should be fairly easy to demonstrate incontrovertible data to prove the LENR effect and put to rest this endless drama. Do a self sustain test. It would not take a year and COULD remove all doubts if done by proper testing authorities. This would be Great News and a wonderful gift Indeed! Which will it me?
            .
            So, am I happy with this new Christmas present? At the moment, it is more like a gift card. The card says it is worth a lot of money, but until I can take it somewhere and purchase items with it, it has the value of the plastic it is made from …. about 1 penny..
            .
            So what is this gift card Rossi has given us? From the skeptical view, a couple of his statements are problematic…
            .
            “… this comes from a work made this last night” What? This discovery was only made on Dec. 25th? The eCatX has been running for more than a month. What can this statement mean?
            That he has just now saw electrical production?
            .
            “I hope it is not a dream…” Again, measuring electricity with today’s instruments is simple and easy. What is he stating here?
            .
            On the other side of the coin… there is :

            “1- yes and the efficiency is very high
            2- yes and the COP is very high”

            With these statements, Rossi has seemed to acknowledge that it should be very easy to absolutely prove. As Bob Greenyer has stated….. “put it in a loop”.
            .
            So if this “gift card” is real, then we should see it inserted into the credit machine and it’s value confirmed fairly quickly. If not, then the card will sit on the shelf and never provide any value..
            .
            For me, I was hoping for a Red Ryder BB gun from Tom Darden, not the Leg Lamp. 🙂
            .
            I hope every one had a great Christmas. I hope 2016 will bring more peace than 2015. I hope Darden / IH will make some type of official statements!
            .
            As before Christmas…. we continue to wait…..

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            “Do a self sustain test.” Oh no, more tests the super skeptics will not believe (like there are hidden wires or it is trick electrical plug, or Rossi switched the ash)

          • US_Citizen71

            I agree. Look at the NASA EM drive tests for an example. NASA is using extremely precise instruments in a highly controlled environment by knowledgeable experimentalists and people are still looking for the hidden thumb on the scale.

          • Bob

            The reason Darden / IH will need to show something at some point is that they are not in this business to make posts on a small website. They are in it to make money. Possibly to help solve pollution problems. Posts about high COP, direct electricity and F9 will do neither.
            .
            At some point, there will need to be more than posts from Rossi. Not posts to this site, it really means nothing in the scheme of things. But as Elon Musk did with his home battery storage system, Darden will at some point need to bring this technology to the public. To start the ground work for sales and distribution. Especially if he is honest about just wanting to solve the pollution problem.
            .
            The five year anniversary of the first “public” eCat demo is approaching. After 5 years we have little more than continued Rossi says.
            .
            I will continue to wait this Sunday afternoon while there is some football to watch!

          • US_Citizen71

            Yes we continue to wait, but such is the norm for the development of new cutting edge products. White light LEDs were discovered and demonstrated at the lab level when I was in high school. It took nearly two decades for white light LEDs to become products that were for sale to the general public. Even then they were not economical you could buy a lifetime supply of incandescent bulbs for the price of the first white LED bulbs.

          • Bob

            Your statements may be correct about LED lights, but it is Rossi who made the statements several times about customers, robotized factories, target dates, on going tests, etc. etc. I am not making any judgements other than from what he states. I make no accusations other than from the results (or lack of) his statements.
            .
            For instance, Rossi never stated (that I know of) that a jet engine was actually possible or that a commercial one was being worked on. There has been some readers that has taken his comments and ran rather wild with them!
            .
            So while I certainly would not hold Dr. Rossi to any statements about jet engine production he HAS stated that robotized production lines are ready, that production would start as soon as the 1 MW plant test showed positive, among other statements which strongly lead to believe that the “cold cat” is very close to production.
            .
            Now, if that is all dropped and the eCatx takes place of the cold cat, the Hot Cat, the gas Cat, the Home Cat and yet nothing has been marketed nor thoroughly confirmed by independant testing, Darden / IH has nothing to show. No return on investment. No credibility.
            .
            Elon Musk, I think, is a good comparison. People take him seriously because he has produced and produced rather extraordinarily. So far, Rossi has produced posts and one third party test that has severe issues.
            .
            Now Rossi makes the statement of direct electrical production, high COP and high efficiency. With that in mind, high level confidence confirmation of LENR is almost impossible to not provide in a clear and irrevocable manner.
            .
            I must quote Jed Rothweil, a staunch supporter of LENR,operator of the Vortex-L website and one of the most connected individuals in the field.
            (He has often defended Rossi in the past) He states (copied from Vortex-L) “..I do not take his claims
            seriously. I think they are more stream-of-consciousness than lies.”
            .
            Yes, at some point, most likely first half of 2016 Darden will make announcements or he will drop out of the picture. Rossi will need to provide more independent proof or his credibility will be more damaged, perhaps critically so.
            .
            Evening advances, foot ball is almost over and I wait….

          • Ecat Time of Conclusion Test just reached the 1 month + mark. More exciting than watching the ball drop for New Years. Wonder how low we will have to wait for results to surface.

          • Omega Z

            If it does anything like Rossi say’s, then there is really No reason for Darden or Rossi to prove anything to anyone outside their circle.

          • Slad

            Hello Mary

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Smart marketers always hold off new model…….until they feel the heat from competitors.

          • Winebuff67

            The Maldives are have a problem with extremists now and with seas rising it will only exacerbate that issue.

          • Axil Axil

            Is Rossi going too far ahead of where world currently wants to be? Can Rossi actually patent a overunity device when the patent office says that perpetual motion is impossible? How can Rossi word his upcoming patent to make a self powered device patentable?

          • Agaricus

            Patents might imply that lithium and hydrogen are the consumable fuel, to avoid that type of potential problem. I think Rossi et al. may need to be ready for much more serious opposition than a bit of quibbling by patent reviewers though.

          • LilyLover

            I think good ‘faith-patentism’ will prevail eventually. I.e. public acceptance of Rossi as inventor in and of itself will become patent. People will refuse to buy anything not authorized by Rossi.
            There will be no possible rewards for infringement.
            The “government patent office” will become paper tiger and eventually vanish into oblivion.
            As of today that “office” simply serves as a barrier to entry for commoners and a back-stage-pass for lawyers of big corporations. That is one – anti-democratic, apex worshipping agency today that really needs to be replaced by open source patenting.

          • Adam Lepczak

            what are you talking about? EcatX is still based on the LENR reaction and therefore it requires “fuel” to produce the energy.

          • Axil Axil

            If the reactor has a fuel, then Rossi must know how the energy is being produced in the reactor from that fuel. But then he cannot explain how the NI62 formed in the 100 micron ash particle was produced in the Lugano test. His theory with Cook does not explain pure Ni62 formation.

            Will Rossi explain how heat and electricity is produced in his patent or will just assert that fuel is required without knowing how the fuel produces that energy that his reactor generates. Will the patent office allow such a patent that cannot explain how energy is produced,.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Eureka! Hot countries don’t need no more heat. Cold countries do.
            We should all subscribe to WaPo.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Atlantis ignored SUVs and see what happened?

          • GreenWin

            Buck is, IMO correct with respect to introducing disruptive technology to global culture. It requires a carefully managed transition so to not threaten infrastructure on which that culture rests. Low cost, abundant energy will benefit the entire human population IF administered carefully.

            While I share the frustrations of visionaries here at ECW, those frustrations are in service to our ultimate goal. What good is low cost, clean energy if its introduction precipitates new, catastrophic global conflict? We should complain about the timeline – to keep it on track. But moving too quickly could implode a tenuous economy – leading to a world at war.

            Where Buck and many here differ is in the proposition that the fear-based “climate campaign” deserves credit for this energy transition. It does not. The climate campaign’s own “Father,” Dr. James Hansen just declared the Paris accord “a fraud.” Fear is no longer a viable pedagogy for behavior modification. Rigorous honesty and evidence-based science IS.

          • Buck

            GW,

            Always a pleasure.

            I have something that I believe you will enjoy. Iain McGilchrist’s book “The Master and His Emissary” came out about 6 years ago. His thesis brought a different, but entirely understandable perspective to how our individual outlook impacts our view of the world and our ability to flourish.

            Here is a very fast summary of his book as he presented it to TED. I suggest reading the book. To me the thesis is truly remarkable as it resonates strongly with the Buddhist definition of Wisdom though of course with a very different language and set of metaphors.

            LINK>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

            I also think you will see the implications to the ongoing debate here at ECW if you conclude McGilchrist’s thesis holds water.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Allow buggywhip industry to carefully redeploy.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, buggy whip industry found a new niche market. S&M he he he

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Andrea notes your input and deliberates.

          • Buck

            Iggy,
            I believe Andrea has kept his own council ever since he broke the record with his 24 hour marathon run.

      • LarryJ

        No change is too fast for a free economy. It is because free economies react so fast that they always outperform heavily regulated economies. Those parts of western economies that are heavily regulated will see serious disruption. Those parts that are free to adapt will not.

        • Ophelia Rump

          On the bright side, if in two months or a year and two months, the E-Cat became commonly acknowledged as existing technology; convincing people that the E-Cat-X could produce electricity would be fairly easy to do.

    • Mats002

      If A-N-Y private company tell me they stall time to market because of care about the market/economy I say they lie about their true objectives.

      • Omega Z

        It would depend on how disruptive the technology would be.
        Should you collapse the world economy, where would the investments to bring the product to market come from, as money would have little value.

        • Mats002

          You are naive thinking that any product or organisation can have that impact on world economy, for each action you will find others do counter actions. No need to play both roles.

    • Ophelia Rump

      If a technology moves fast it drives the economy. That is always a good thing in my experience. The automobile, electricity, indoor plumbing, the calculator, the home computer.

      • Omega Z

        “The rich have a way of staying rich beyond all reason.”
        That is not necessarily true. It only appears that way looking from the outside.
        Even when you see some lose a large portion of their wealth in the media, no one notices or sheds a tear.

        In the U.S., 50% of the wealthy have lost half their wealth in the last year.(Average) That be some who lost a little to others who lost nearly everything. However, It is only news worthy when they increase their wealth.

        That said, there are ways for the wealthy to avoid taxes & assure wealth transfer to generations of family members for an indefinite time barring a world wide financial melt down. This can lead to Elitism.

        Sam Walton spread his wealth among family prior to it’s value appreciation & therefore, when he died, most of it was not taxed.(His offspring are doing the same) The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. No matter it’s valuation is non profit & most of his contributions to it are tax deductible. However, If he should lose all his wealth, it can pay him quite handsomely. Facebook’s Zuckerberg is transferring the vast majority(over 90%) of his wealth to a living trust. Initially, this will be taxed, but those taxes will be very limited from then on. Like Gates, should he lose his personal wealth, the trust will take good care of him.

        You will never see me proclaim the wealthy should pay over 50% of their income in combined taxes. However, I dammed well think they should pay their taxes due without all the shenanigans.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I meant in the sense that it could be too disruptive.

      • Axil Axil

        Buy gold…but wait,,,gold could be produced using LENR. Buy real estate…LENR cannot produce that.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Buy remote frigid (solar deprived) real estate.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Wait, just buy options.

        • LarryJ

          Invest in commodities and services. The advent of cheap power will fuel a huge burst in economic activity as prices deflate but employment demand rises. Everybody will want more “stuff” and services. This will create a long rising demand for commodities of all kinds, except fossil fuels.

          • Brent Buckner

            As to commodities, perhaps focus on suppliers that own raw materials that are energy-intensive to extract/process (c.f. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=8110 ) [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

        • Omega Z

          LENR can’t produce real estate, however, it will be able to take you to newly available real estate in a matter of weeks. Just send you habitat hut in advance.

        • Brent Buckner

          Good point on real estate. Going further, perhaps focus on real estate where energy demands are now high (e.g. for desalination) or which are tourist destinations (expecting travel costs to drop with resulting increase in tourist demand). [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Could technology be moving too fast for the economy to keep up?

    • Buck

      When you are talking about a technology that can and likely will replace/change about 8% of the Global Economy, ranging from exploration to maintenance and distribution, then I think it is VERY FAIR to say that this would be too fast for the economy, much less, cultures, states, or nations to digest without severe repercussions.

      Just my opinion. You should ask Putin what he thinks.

      • pg

        But when such technology benefits greatly at least 90% of the world, I don’t see the problem, any new tech is set to upset a part of the establishment, and in this case probably the worst kind, so cheers.

        • Buck

          PG,
          I am 100% in support of this transition. I think the benefits far out distance the costs.

          However, I think it very wise to recognize the difference between phasing this transition over a 20-40 year time frame versus an intense deadline driven 5-10 year effort. This is because we are talking about peoples livelihoods . . . their means to feed their children and their ability to move (with education) from one job/industry to another. And look at the social institutions which support states/nations . . . look at how quickly our own (USA) has come to face the problem and change the necessary laws. This slow rate of adjusting to necessary change is as close to a trigger for unrest, civil disobedience, and war as one can get IMHO.

          Just look at the states/nations having budgets heavily dependent upon fossil fuel revenue and taxes. Russia is an inflammatory example. Putin is quickly losing the revenue base supporting a “healthy” economy. And, what happens to the tinderbox of the middle east. Some barbarians hatefully and evilly suggest making the sand “glow” with destruction to get rid of the problem of people being rendered irrelevant by these changes.

          And looking at the other side of the balance.

          Look at the states/nations which have been impacted by the fact of Climate Change where the most obvious/easiest examples to cite are the rise in sea levels and changing extremes of rain/monsoon and tornado/hurricane/typhoon weather patterns. Some nations are simply disappearing under the water contrary to those who assert that the islands and coasts will “float” above the rising oceans.

          So, I think it fair to say that caution is very appropriate during this transition.

          • Brent Buckner

            What nations are “simply disappearing under the water”? Please let me know. (And perhaps which have been impacted by any acceleration relative to rates that correspond to simply emerging from an ice age).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Right at the moment, the North of England!

            About 20 years ago, they said if the climate models were right – Britain would get wetter… well, it is clearly getting wetter.

          • Scotland rising while England sinks is an example of ‘post-glacial rebound’ – the rebalancing that is still taking place following the melting of the ice-age glaciation.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound

            http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=555&cookieConsent=A

            Rainfall – it just seems that way. In fact annual total rainfall has been fairly constant since records began, with no general trend upwards:https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/image107.png

          • Jonnyb

            Two almost peaks within around 15 years (1991 to 2000?) can’t see this anywhere else, so no general upward trend but?

          • georgehants

            Water stress and drought
            Global- and national-scale studies included here project that the vulnerability to water
            stress with climate change is mainly focussed in the south and south-east of the UK.
            These regions are projected to experience an increase in the frequency of droughts
            and water stress with climate change. However, the rest of the UK may be relatively
            unaffected by changes in water availability with climate change.
            Recent simulations by the AVOID programme
            project that the UK could experience a
            moderate increase in water stress with climate change, although the median estimate
            of the models used suggests no increase in water stress with climate change for the
            UK by 2100.
            http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/t/r/UK.pdf

          • Bob Greenyer

            And the recent floods happened in many places because the METOFFICE climate models did not predict rainfall this high.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Syria

          • Brent Buckner

            Not according to my source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.SRF.TOTL.K2

            What’s yours? Please advise.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            The civil war started after “the most intense drought ever recorded in Syria which lasted from 2007 to 2010 and that resulted in a widespread crop failure, increase in food prices and a mass migration of farming families to urban centers.[130]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War#Background

          • Brent Buckner

            That does not reference decreasing surface area due to sea level rise, so does not interest me respective of this thread. I’ll try to bear it in mind if there’s another thread about drought.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Climate change includes the effects of drought

          • Brent Buckner

            That has nothing to do with the assertion that spurred my questioning (“Some nations are simply disappearing under the water”). As you were answering a different question, it would have helped me if you told me so up front!

          • Buck

            Brent,

            The recent Paris conference was led off by examples that fit the bill. I believe they spoke before all . . . pointing out the absolute need to move whole populations.

            The easiest for me to recall is Micronesia. However, if you look at the maps in the Washington Post article, you will find more examples. If you look at the IDRC report focused upon SE Asia, you will find more details. Google can provide even more examples and news articles.

            WPost >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/02/03/the-countries-most-vulnerable-to-climate-change-in-3-maps/

            IDRC >> http://www.idrc.ca/EN/Documents/climate-change-vulnerability-mapping-sa.pdf

            However, if you want to argue the irrelevance of man’s contribution to Climate Change, then I suggest you consider the “Grandparent Test” where a grandparent looks to follow or ignore the advice of experts based upon the 97% – 3% expert weighting on the advice.

          • Brent Buckner

            Those maps are for “vulnerability”, not for presently decreasing surface area. I asked because I have read that the surface area of the Maldives has not been decreasing (contrary to suggestions from the government of Maldives), so was looking for something current rather than a projection.

          • Buck

            My example of Micronesia stands.

            LINK>> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/global-warming-micronesia-island-nations-threatened-sea-level/story?id=9280340

            However, the attached LA Times article points out that 20 of the Maldives islands have gone under. So, your conclusion does not seem to stand.

            LINK>> http://highschool.latimes.com/hs-insider/a-vanishing-paradise-the-maldives-expected-to-be-swallowed-by-the-ocean-in-the-future/

          • Brent Buckner

            My source differs: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.SRF.TOTL.K2
            but you’ve given me something to follow up on – thanks!

          • Winebuff67

            The Maldives are have a problem with extremists now and with seas rising it will only exacerbate that issue.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Eureka! Hot countries don’t need no more heat. Cold countries do.
            We should all subscribe to WaPo.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Atlantis ignored SUVs and see what happened?

          • GreenWin

            Buck is, IMO correct with respect to introducing disruptive technology to global culture. It requires a carefully managed transition so to not threaten infrastructure on which that culture rests. Low cost, abundant energy will benefit the entire human population IF administered carefully.

            While I share the frustrations of visionaries here at ECW, those frustrations are in service to our ultimate goal. What good is low cost, clean energy if its introduction precipitates new, catastrophic global conflict? We should complain about the timeline – to keep it on track. But moving too quickly could implode a tenuous economy – leading to a world at war.

            Where Buck and many here differ is in the proposition that the fear-based “climate campaign” deserves credit for this energy transition. It does not. The climate campaign’s own “Father,” Dr. James Hansen just declared the Paris accord “a fraud.” Fear is no longer a viable pedagogy for behavior modification. Rigorous honesty and evidence-based science IS.

          • Buck

            GW,

            Always a pleasure.

            I have something that I believe you will enjoy. Iain McGilchrist’s book “The Master and His Emissary” came out about 6 years ago. His thesis brought a different, but entirely understandable perspective to how the makeup of our individual outlook impacts our view of the world and our ability to flourish.

            Here is a very fast summary of his book as he presented it to TED. I suggest reading the book. To me the thesis is truly remarkable as it resonates strongly with the Buddhist definition of Wisdom though of course with a very different language and set of metaphors.

            LINK>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

            I also think you will see the implications to the ongoing debate here at ECW if you conclude McGilchrist’s thesis holds water.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Allow buggywhip industry to carefully redeploy.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, buggy whip industry found a new niche market. S&M he he he

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Andrea notes your input and deliberates.

          • Buck

            Iggy,
            I believe Andrea has kept his own council ever since he broke the record with his 24 hour marathon run.

      • LarryJ

        No change is too fast for a free economy. It is because free economies react so fast that they always outperform heavily regulated economies. Those parts of western economies that are heavily regulated will see serious disruption. Those parts that are free to adapt will not.

        • bachcole

          Right arm.

    • Mats002

      If A-N-Y private company tell me they stall time to market because of care about the market/economy I say they lie about their true objectives.

      • Omega Z

        It would depend on how disruptive the technology would be.
        Should you collapse the world economy, where would the investments to bring the product to market come from, as money would have little value.

        • Mats002

          You are naive thinking that any product or organisation can have that impact on world economy, for each action you will find others do counter actions. No need to play both roles.

    • Ophelia Rump

      If a technology moves fast it drives the economy. That is always a good thing in my experience. The automobile, electricity, indoor plumbing, the calculator, the home computer.

      Markets adapt in anticipation, we see that already happening. Technology changes through transition. Older technologies are progressively displaced because the new technology presents advantages and opportunities. The rich have a way of staying rich beyond all reason. I would not worry too much for their fates while the rest of the world burns.

      • Omega Z

        “The rich have a way of staying rich beyond all reason.”
        That is not necessarily true. It only appears that way looking from the outside.
        Even when you see some lose a large portion of their wealth in the media, no one notices or sheds a tear.

        In the U.S., 50% of the wealthy have lost half their wealth in the last year.(Average) That be some who lost a little to others who lost nearly everything. However, It is only news worthy when they increase their wealth.

        That said, there are ways for the wealthy to avoid taxes & assure wealth transfer to generations of family members for an indefinite time barring a world wide financial melt down. This can lead to Elitism.

        Sam Walton spread his wealth among family prior to it’s value appreciation & therefore, when he died, most of it was not taxed.(His offspring are doing the same) The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. No matter it’s valuation is non profit & most of his contributions to it are tax deductible. However, If he should lose all his wealth, it can pay him quite handsomely. Facebook’s Zuckerberg is transferring the vast majority(over 90%) of his wealth to a living trust. Initially, this will be taxed, but those taxes will be very limited from then on. Like Gates, should he lose his personal wealth, the trust will take good care of him.

        You will never see me proclaim the wealthy should pay over 50% of their income in combined taxes. However, I dammed well think they should pay their taxes due without all the shenanigans.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I meant in the sense that it could be too disruptive. Huge amounts of money are invested in retirement accounts that hold “traditional” investments in companies that could be over run by the new technologies. ie self driving EV’s, direct power via LENR etc.

      • Axil Axil

        Buy gold…but wait,,,gold could be produced using LENR. Buy real estate…LENR cannot produce that.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Buy remote frigid (solar deprived) real estate.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Wait, just buy options.

        • LarryJ

          Invest in commodities and services. The advent of cheap power will fuel a huge burst in economic activity as prices deflate but employment demand rises. Everybody will want more “stuff” and services. This will create a long rising demand for commodities of all kinds, except fossil fuels.

          • Brent Buckner

            As to commodities, perhaps focus on suppliers that own raw materials that are energy-intensive to extract/process (c.f. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=8110 ) [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

        • Omega Z

          LENR can’t produce real estate, however, it will be able to take you to newly available real estate in a matter of weeks. Just send you habitat hut in advance.

        • Brent Buckner

          Good point on real estate. Going further, perhaps focus on real estate where energy demands are now high (e.g. for desalination) or which are tourist destinations (expecting travel costs to drop with resulting increase in tourist demand). [This is not a solicitation, nor advice to engage in any transaction. Futures and options trading involves risk.]

  • Ophelia Rump

    Does “very high efficiency” mean low heat to electrical power output? Might they be capable of running inside an insulated package, without a cooling system?

    • Omega Z

      Electricity will be at the cost of heat output.
      Note this is not the same as temperature, but the loss of available heat for other uses. The E-cat X will still operate at high temps.

      • Jason Verbelli

        More people need to understand the importance of that concept. Seems to go over people’s heads for some reason.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Close the loop

    • Mats002

      Yeah that is obvious, it should become a perpetium mobile.

      • Bob Greenyer

        With a high COP – it the pendulum should spin like a turbine blade!

  • Bob Greenyer

    Close the loop

    • Mats002

      Yeah that is obvious, it should become a perpetium mobile.

      • Bob Greenyer

        With a high COP – it the pendulum should spin like a turbine blade!

  • Bob Greenyer

    About the energy generation… There are several approaches that I can immediately think of that would lead to DC

    1.It could work on alpha or beta particle voltaic principles – though the production rate from a given volume may not create practical power in the kW range.

    2. Efficient TEG (Thermo Electric Generator)

    3. Photo voltaic (Alumina is good at converting heat into light)

    • Owen Geiger

      TEG seems unlikely since Rossi seems to indicate something new from the E-Cat X = direction production of electricity. TEG could be utilized on the older E-Cat, correct?

      • Bob Greenyer

        AFAIK, Rossi had a business once making TEGs

    • Axil Axil

      What about the breakdown of nucleons into electrons.?

      • Bob Greenyer

        That would still be beta voltaic – but – granted, the output would be orders of magnitude higher.

  • Omega Z

    Pertaining to the Hot Cat in late 2014
    ————————————————-
    1. Does this electrostatic pulse occur
    A. during drive mode
    B. during self sustain mode
    C. during both–>C

    2. Is this detected in
    A. the mouse
    B. the cat–>B
    C. in both

    3. Does this occur
    A. at high temps–>A
    B. low temps
    C. both

    4. Was this detected as some type of feed back to the control box or some evidence discovered when analyzing the reactor after a shut down.

    No: the effect (if real) is totally independent and insulated from the control box, which is external. The E-Cats’ external surface doesn’t carry any kind of current, being electrically insulated.

    Pertaining to the E-Cat X
    ————————————————-
    Bedy Nurn December 26th, 2015

    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    How can the nickel in the E-Cat X work if the temperature on the surface is above the melting point?
    Thank you if you can answer,
    Bedy

    Andrea Rossi December 26th, 2015
    Bedy Nurn:
    The temperature upon the surface is hotter than where the nickel seats, due to the e.m. fields.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    • Axil Axil

      The nickel acts as a catalyst that produces EMF based particles that generate heat away from the nickel

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Detected when the hair stood up on Andrea.

  • Omega Z

    Pertaining to the Hot Cat in late 2014
    ————————————————-
    1. Does this electrostatic pulse occur
    A. during drive mode
    B. during self sustain mode
    C. during both–>C

    2. Is this detected in
    A. the mouse
    B. the cat–>B
    C. in both

    3. Does this occur
    A. at high temps–>A
    B. low temps
    C. both

    4. Was this detected as some type of feed back to the control box or some evidence discovered when analyzing the reactor after a shut down.

    No: the effect (if real) is totally independent and insulated from the control box, which is external. The E-Cats’ external surface doesn’t carry any kind of current, being electrically insulated.

    Pertaining to the E-Cat X
    ————————————————-
    Bedy Nurn December 26th, 2015

    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    How can the nickel in the E-Cat X work if the temperature on the surface is above the melting point?
    Thank you if you can answer,
    Bedy

    Andrea Rossi December 26th, 2015
    Bedy Nurn:
    The temperature upon the surface is hotter than where the nickel seats, due to the e.m. fields.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    • Axil Axil

      The nickel acts as a catalyst that produces EMF based particles that generate heat away from the nickel

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Detected when the hair stood up on Andrea.

  • GreenWin

    “…whether LENR turns out to be an earth shaking discovery, or a house of
    cards was built by a combination of fraud, incompetence and simple
    willingness to believe…”

    We will, in all fairness judge Einstein’s relativity, the Standard Model, speed of light, and the “climate campaign” on similar grounds. And most likely finding them all flawed.

    Our inability to recognize conflict in what we write and what we claim to write – is the very definition of “cognitive dissonance.” We compose harmony… but our audience hears cacophony. Happy New Year Thomas.

  • CamH

    Still think it is a Solid Oxide Fuel Cell… ticks all the boxes.

  • wonderboy

    oh no.. does this mean there will be no commercial low temperature ecat? I can see them skipping this if it is too unstable.

    • Axil Axil

      I can see Rossi discarding the old reactor design and going with the new design. This type of delay is produced by a lack of competition for market share, Rossi does not want to invest in a producion plant that produces out of date designs. He wants the produce the best design in his robot plant.

      • wonderboy

        Well put. If he doesn’t need cashflow, he can stay in the R&D phase for longer.

        I just can’t wait till the energy paradigm changes once he releases a new commercial product.

      • Owen Geiger

        Investors like Woodford may not fund a production plant for anything but the more efficient E-Cat X. As eager as Rossi is to get product to market, he still has to please investors. Who would want to sink $50-100 million into a factory to produce reactors that will be outdated in months or maybe a year?

      • LarryJ

        The industrial cat and the ecat-x are two different products. I would imagine that the low temperature reactors would be more reliable than the much higher temperature ecat-x, they have almost a full year of testing completed and there is a huge market for large industrial low temperature reactors. Don’t forget that the lifetime of the industrial reactors is promised to be decades. That might be tough for something with surface temperatures that melt nickel. I think they would be more likely to modify the low temperature design to allow easy retrofitting of newer technology as it matures but the market for the low temperature steam is just too big to ignore.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Smart marketers always hold off new model…….until they feel the heat from competitors.

      • wonderboy

        True, if they had a cash cow to milk. At some time I would expect investors (Tom D) to want a finalized design to bring to market. But I expect he isn’t in a rush, and wants a product that provides irrefutable proof that this product works. So that’s why I sense their will be another year trial.

        • Winebuff67

          He’s not getting any younger. I hope part of his dream is to see this on a mass produced scale and benefitting the world. he has patents. now is the time to put out a mass produced heating unit and end all speculation once and for all. Darden needs to come front and center and make a splash with the new product. Ok….rant over.

  • Uncle Bob

    This should finally answer the question conclusively as to whether the technology is real or not.
    Since the device uses electrical power to initiate the reaction and there is an electrical power output from the device, and the COP is very high, there should not be any valid reason why two or three of these reactors cannot be arranged so that the system is totally self sustaining for an indefinitely long period.
    A supervised demonstration for a week or two should prove the point beyond any doubt.
    That will be well worth seeing.

    • For one thing, it would surely make a public demonstration more convincing and easy. Just measure electrical input vs electrical output.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Whoa……what happened to market place?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      In a few years, held up by bootstraps…yes.

    • LarryJ

      Rossi will do no more public demos. If you want a demo you will have to wait for the product and do it yourself. His last public demo proved the technology. Read the Lugano report. If you don’t believe Lugano then any new demo would suffer the same fate in your view and Rossi knows that new public demos would be a total waste of time. The people he needed to convince have already been convinced. We are now way past the demo phase.

    • Omega Z

      Ahh yes.
      The Loop. Obviously this proves nothing. Possibly he is transmitting RF or has a laser beam energy transfer. The E-cat is not real. Perhaps he has an Orbo hidden inside. One can debunk anything if desperate enough and nothing can be proven absolute.
      No one has been beyond our solar system. It is quite obvious all the stars are merely a projection of our imagination or reflections off of swamp gas.

      But for certain, Darden/Rossi have no reason to provide a full proof test to the commons. Only for those who may have a vested interest.

  • If you are sucking energy out of the reactor in the form of electricity, would not that lower the heat output and thus potentially increase the stability and user control of the reactor?

    • Axil Axil

      It is most likely that Rossi new gadget is just like the device Holmlid has produced where mesons decay into over unity electrons. I deduce this because Rossi states that the heat output can be traded off against electrical production.

      Hank Mills
      December 26th, 2015 at 1:54 PM
      Dear Andrea,
      4 – Does maximizing the electrical output from the E-Cat X in anyway require a diminishment or compromise of the heat output?
      ———————-
      Andrea Rossi
      December 26th, 2015 at 3:04 PM
      Hank Mills:

      4- obviously

    • Frank Acland

      I asked this on the JONP:

      In the E-Cat X now, which is greater: the heat output, or electricity output?

      Andrea Rossi

      December 26th, 2015 at 9:57 PM

      Frank Acland:

      We can choose.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        40/60, next question?

      • artefact

        I guess that means the jet engine is not necessary any more.

        • Omega Z

          Why would the jet engine not be necessary?
          I believe Rossi actually meant Jet engines for it’s intended use. Aircraft… Tho the same tech would be adaptable to Gas turbines.

          With the temps Rossi is able to achieve, Gas turbines with LENR as the heat source would be more conversion efficient and economical then using Jet engines to generate electricity. Besides being less efficient overall, Jet engines are maintenance intensive.

          Note that if LENR isn’t effected in low/no gravity of space, it would also be adaptable to rockets.

      • Tubular inductance windings? Pump coolant through them for heat, put a load across them for electrical power. If they are left open circuit, the (postulated) oscillating magnetic field energy would be converted by induction to additional heat to be carried away by the coolant.

  • For one thing, it would surely make a public demonstration more convincing and easy. Just measure electrical input vs electrical output.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Whoa……what happened to market place?

  • TomR

    Just my thoughts and they might be wrong, back a few months ago when Andrea was saying very good things about Obama I made a post that I thought an agreement had been made to smooth the way for Andrea and IH. I wonder if some of the milestones have not been met by Obama and his people and this is a reminder to them that by March things better get a lot easier to bring the E-Cats to market. I really believe that the manufacturing is ready to go right now.

    • Omega Z

      We have no idea what Rossi’s opinions are of Obama.
      You don’t talk bad about a person who can revoke you visa tomorrow.
      We know he doesn’t think much of the man made GW theory from past statements.
      However, he’s taken a neutral position in the last year & says it’s something to study.

      I bet your E-cat will not work. Rossi-You may win your bet.
      I think your E-cat will work great. Rossi-You may be right.
      Here’s what we know.
      Rossi has been schooled not to make unnecessary waves.
      By Obama’s recent statements, He gets most of his info from the mainstream news media. Thus he probably doesn’t know about LENR let alone Rossi.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Rossi has said many positive things about Obama, including the following (Aug 2 2015): “The enormous importance of the work of the President Obama is too
        momentous to be understood fully by all the people immediately: when he
        will be no more President his legacy will make History. Also Abraham
        Lincoln has been underevaluated by his contemporary counterparts: only
        after he died his gigantic figure has been fully understood and shared
        by almost all the people.”
        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=885&cpage=5#comment-1106291

        • Omega Z

          Rossi also made statements as to the importance of the GW work done in Paris. And he has made his views of communism well know. But he no longer lambasts orsobubu for his views. This is a person going with the flow & not making waves. Probably, he thinks his work is controversial enough without creating more. There are people to appease to grease the rails so to speak.

          If he has not made his view clear before, you can’t be certain where his views are.

        • TomR

          Thank you Pekka, those were the good things that Rossi said about Obama that I was referring to.

      • Obama should know about Rossi. A person very close to Obama, who I know personally, has got my book.

        • US_Citizen71

          There’s also my attempt and at least one other to get a petition going on the White House website. Until it’s ready for prime time I do not expect any world leader to acknowledge LENR publicly.

          • bachcole

            Not “until it’s ready” but after it is introduced and an obvious inescapable FACT. All politicians are cowards.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Beta-alumina is a fast ion conductor (Na+, K+, Li+, Ag+, H+,
    Pb2+, Sr2+ or Ba2+).
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/22/solid-state-lenr-generator-axil-axil/#comment-1870075434
    Maybe energized H+ and Li+ circulating in the alumina tube
    inductively affect the electrons in the coil that surround the alumina tube.

    • Owen Geiger

      The E-Cat X is made with wafers, correct? Are the wafers flat or cylindrical? The reference to making the new reactors like electrical components sounds like they may be flat.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think so too.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, I was wondering about that. I really don’t know about how this thing is constructed. I was wondering if these stackable wafers are alumina coated fuel (Ni, Li, LiAlH4) and if they are, could this alumina have some ion conducing properties that play some sort of role in the generation of electricity. I’m just thinking out loud. I’m wondering as I type if the fuel is sandwiched between alumina and a metal. I just don’t know.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Beta-alumina is a fast ion conductor (Na+, K+, Li+, Ag+, H+,
    Pb2+, Sr2+ or Ba2+).
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/02/22/solid-state-lenr-generator-axil-axil/#comment-1870075434
    Maybe energized H+ and Li+ circulating in the alumina tube
    inductively affect the electrons in the coil that surround the alumina tube.

    • Owen Geiger

      The E-Cat X is made with wafers, correct? Are the wafers flat or cylindrical? The reference to making the new reactors like electrical components sounds like they may be flat.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think so too.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, I was wondering about that. I really don’t know about how this thing is constructed. I was wondering if these stackable wafers are alumina coated fuel (Ni, Li, LiAlH4) and if they are, could this alumina have some ion conducing properties that play some sort of role in the generation of electricity. I’m just thinking out loud. I’m wondering as I type if the fuel is sandwiched between alumina and a metal. I just don’t know.

  • Bob

    Well….. I had hoped for a Christmas present. I am not sure if this is a present or not!.
    .
    My “wish list” was a statement from Tom Darden. What seems to have been put in the stocking was another Rossi announcement.
    .
    Is this good news or bad news? If the current 1MW test and design is dropped for this new eCatX (which others have posted as a possibility) and that the eCatx is another year or two down the road, shrouded by new secret customers, secret referees and random 400 day tests, then this is a bad gift and news indeed.
    .
    If the eCatX produces COP significantly higher than 1, it should be fairly easy to demonstrate incontrovertible data to prove the LENR effect and put to rest this endless drama. Do a self sustain test. It would not take a year and COULD remove all doubts if done by proper testing authorities. This would be Great News and a wonderful gift Indeed! Which will it me?
    .
    So, am I happy with this new Christmas present? At the moment, it is more like a gift card. The card says it is worth a lot of money, but until I can take it somewhere and purchase items with it, it has the value of the plastic it is made from …. about 1 penny..
    .
    So what is this gift card Rossi has given us? From the skeptical view, a couple of his statements are problematic…
    .
    “… this comes from a work made this last night” What? This discovery was only made on Dec. 25th? The eCatX has been running for more than a month. What can this statement mean?
    That he has just now saw electrical production?
    .
    “I hope it is not a dream…” Again, measuring electricity with today’s instruments is simple and easy. What is he stating here?
    .
    On the other side of the coin… there is :

    “1- yes and the efficiency is very high
    2- yes and the COP is very high”

    With these statements, Rossi has seemed to acknowledge that it should be very easy to absolutely prove. As Bob Greenyer has stated….. “put it in a loop”.
    .
    So if this “gift card” is real, then we should see it inserted into the credit machine and it’s value confirmed fairly quickly. If not, then the card will sit on the shelf and never provide any value..
    .
    For me, I was hoping for a Red Ryder BB gun from Tom Darden, not the Leg Lamp. 🙂
    .
    I hope every one had a great Christmas. I hope 2016 will bring more peace than 2015. I hope Darden / IH will make some type of official statements!
    .
    As before Christmas…. we continue to wait…..

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      “Do a self sustain test.” Oh no, more tests the super skeptics will not believe (like there are hidden wires or it is trick electrical plug, or Rossi switched the ash) I have heard these stupides for five years. Just wait for for the products.

      • US_Citizen71

        I agree. Look at the NASA EM drive tests for an example. NASA is using extremely precise instruments in a highly controlled environment by knowledgeable experimentalists and people are still looking for the hidden thumb on the scale.

        • Bob

          The reason Darden / IH will need to show something at some point is that they are not in this business to make posts on a small website. They are in it to make money. Possibly to help solve pollution problems. Posts about high COP, direct electricity and F9 will do neither.
          .
          At some point, there will need to be more than posts from Rossi. Not posts to this site, it really means nothing in the scheme of things. But as Elon Musk did with his home battery storage system, Darden will at some point need to bring this technology to the public. To start the ground work for sales and distribution. Especially if he is honest about just wanting to solve the pollution problem.
          .
          The five year anniversary of the first “public” eCat demo is approaching. After 5 years we have little more than continued Rossi says.
          .
          I will continue to wait this Sunday afternoon while there is some football to watch!

          • US_Citizen71

            Yes we continue to wait, but such is the norm for the development of new cutting edge products. White light LEDs were discovered and demonstrated at the lab level when I was in high school. It took nearly two decades for white light LEDs to become products that were for sale to the general public. Even then they were not economical you could buy a lifetime supply of incandescent bulbs for the price of the first white LED bulbs and now I just saw yesterday at Home Depot an 8 pack of 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs value priced at $24.97.

          • Bob

            Your statements may be correct about LED lights, but it is Rossi who made the statements several times about customers, robotized factories, target dates, on going tests, etc. etc. I am not making any judgements other than from what he states. I make no accusations other than from the results (or lack of) his statements.
            .
            For instance, Rossi never stated (that I know of) that a jet engine was actually possible or that a commercial one was being worked on. There has been some readers that has taken his comments and ran rather wild with them!
            .
            So while I certainly would not hold Dr. Rossi to any statements about jet engine production he HAS stated that robotized production lines are ready, that production would start as soon as the 1 MW plant test showed positive, among other statements which strongly lead to believe that the “cold cat” is very close to production.
            .
            Now, if that is all dropped and the eCatx takes place of the cold cat, the Hot Cat, the gas Cat, the Home Cat and yet nothing has been marketed nor thoroughly confirmed by independant testing, Darden / IH has nothing to show. No return on investment. No credibility.
            .
            Elon Musk, I think, is a good comparison. People take him seriously because he has produced and produced rather extraordinarily. So far, Rossi has produced posts and one third party test that has severe issues.
            .
            Now Rossi makes the statement of direct electrical production, high COP and high efficiency. With that in mind, high level confidence confirmation of LENR is almost impossible to not provide in a clear and irrevocable manner.
            .
            I must quote Jed Rothweil, a staunch supporter of LENR,operator of the Vortex-L website and one of the most connected individuals in the field.
            (He has often defended Rossi in the past) He states (copied from Vortex-L) “..I do not take his claims
            seriously. I think they are more stream-of-consciousness than lies.”
            .
            Yes, at some point, most likely first half of 2016 Darden will make announcements or he will drop out of the picture. Rossi will need to provide more independent proof or his credibility will be more damaged, perhaps critically so.
            .
            Evening advances, foot ball is almost over and I wait….

    • Omega Z

      If it does anything like Rossi say’s, then there is really No reason for Darden or Rossi to prove anything to anyone outside their circle.

      • Uncle Bob

        As you so rightly say, “If it does anything like Rossi say’s,”
        All indicators so far make that a very big IF.

        I compare this latest revelation with the early announcements of the hot-cat, reported to “run like a Ferrari but de-tuned to purr like a kitten” , I think the announcement said. It supposedly went so well that it inspired someone to invest ten million dollars in it.

        It’s hard to believe that once again there is so much confident excitement about nothing more than an announcement from Mr. Rossi, with no corroborating real evidence whatsoever. Is there anything that can’t be announced without incurring some degree of disbelief? It seems not.

        I believe the only thing this new ecat-x will deliver is the negating of the necessity to come good on the promises made in any of the previous amazing announcements.

        This latest addition to props of the circus act, along with all previous devices will go the same way as the original home e-cat, so naturally each new announcement has to be even more spectacular than any of the previous.
        And if nothing else, this one is certainly that.

        The only thing to wonder on now is what can be left to announce in two years time when the non performance of this current newly announced amazing device becomes apparent. Anti gravity cat maybe? Who knows?

        Not that it’s important. They are all equally bogus.

        I believe in a few months time it will become apparent that the supposed test being done over the last 12 months has been nothing more than a worthless time wasting exercise. However, I don’t think that will become apparent by any great announcement of failure, but rather a gradual awareness creeping in that there is no further work being done on the current ecat, or hotcat, or any previous device, in much the same way that there is no work being done on the original home ecat even though there has always been a very real need for such a device, if it was real.

        The announcements being made now are to make that gradual awareness of no importance because now we can all look forward to the imminent release of the all new amazing ecat-X., which of course, will take another two years in initial design and then testing, at a secret location of course,.. all covered by nda’s of course,

        I believe in reality they have all the same performance. A COP of 1, or so close to it that it makes no difference.

        Oh well, happy new year.

        • Roland

          Granting that you’re actually interested in learning something about the E-cat read the Lugano report and get some facts regarding COP as your ‘beliefs’ are baseless.

          • Uncle Bob

            Do you think I haven’t read it?
            Perhaps you might like to read it more carefully and ask some questions.

            You would do well to question why the initial run was allowed to heat to the point of self destruction. It was no accident and it was done for a purpose, and that was to scare the testers away from performing calibrations in the high temperature range.
            You would do well to ask why it was not insisted that the calibration run be performed in the temperature range which the test was going to operate in for weeks. Obviously because they were concerned it might destroy the heater and end the test. And yet the later test was going to operate in that range for an extended period with no problems.
            Had they insisted on doing the calibrations in that range I believe the device would have been made to self destruct because it was essential that a correct calibration not be done in the range the test was going to operate in. It would be better the test be torpedoed rather than a negative result arrived at.
            Had the test been done in accordance with proper scientific protocols the COP would have been shown to be 1.
            And you could ask why, at a third party independent test, the designer of the device being tested, who constantly claimed he knew nothing about the tests in order that it be independent, was actually there at both the start and end of the test process and took a hands on part in the start and end of it. That being the case there was the very real probability that the test procedure was influenced and affected in a manner which made it less than independent.
            And, last of all, you could ask why would someone do that when they had previously expressed an understanding of the importance of the test being independent? The answer would have to be because they knew the value of getting a positive result was more important than the value of a correct procedure getting a negative result. A negative result is worth less than nothing whereas a positive result has some value even if the procedure is flawed.
            The Lugano test procedure was flawed. The result was flawed, but it made the designer ten million dollars. A pretty good result form one point of view.
            But anyway, all this is now old news so no need to fuss over the details.
            The tests on the old products might have been flawed and the results bogus, but now we have an entirely new and even more amazing product which is so much better than the old ones that we can regard it as a completely new and unrelated experience, in which we can be sure everything will be done properly and in order,.. so long as it produces a good result.

          • GreenWin

            Uncle Bob, your questions remind one of the Mother Goose poem asking, “How does your garden grow?”

            We understand your frustration with Rossi’s success, the Lugano Report, the investment of $60M in Industrial Heat, government funding of LENR in China, India, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Japan and even… the US. Try to grasp you inhabit a site with guidelines discouraging:

            “Comments that state openly or by implication that LENR/cold fusion/E-Cat is a fraud or hoax”

            You might find more solace with fellow skeptics elsewhere. Regardless, Happy New Year!!

  • Christina

    Praise the Lord; He’s taking care of us; all we have to do is find what He’s put into nature.

    As for there being no God and all of this is simply just nature expressing itself?

    There is a mind behind nature, a mind that formed it and made it make sense. The name of that Mind is God.

    Christina

    • passerby

      We’re all on the same team here but please don’t use good news as an opportunity to push religion, it’s distasteful.

      Besides, the ones that deserve credit are people like Rossi and the many who came before him. It was human beings that put their lives and reputations on the line, repeatedly for generations, in order to make this possible. We cannot even imagine how hard it must have been to work on such complex research in the face of ridicule from their peers.

      An all-powerful deity would not find it hard to do anything, so why would we give that being praise instead of the real, actual people who are putting in hard work to ensure humanity has a future?

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    In a few years, held up by bootstraps…yes.

  • LarryJ

    Ross will do no more public demos. If you want a demo you will have to wait for the product and do it yourself. His last public demo proved the technology. Read the Lugano report. If you don’t believe Lugano then any new demo would suffer the same fate in your view and Rossi knows that new public demos would be a total waste of time. The people he needed to convince have already been convinced. We are now way past the demo phase.

  • fritz194

    Heat and electricity tradeoff per design is somewhat another holy grail on its own – even if its the byproduct of a cf device.

    • artefact

      It gets harder to tell someone who is not familiar with CF about it. It is just so perfect.

      • Mats002

        Yes artefact, Rossi is now in same realm as Keshe, see http://www.keshefoundation.org/applications/energy

        • Gerard McEk

          Artifact is right, but from Keshe you do not see much that independently confirms that his technology works. As long as we do not see an independent confirmation of the E-cat X, we have just the blog words of Andrea, but at least we know he has been verified in the past and we know where the energy comes from.
          Keshe’s zero point energy source is really dubious.

        • Slad

          Well, unlike Keshe, Rossi hasn’t yet claimed to be the Messiah…

  • fritz194

    Heat and electricity tradeoff per design is somewhat another holy grail on its own – even if its the byproduct of a cf device.

    • artefact

      It gets harder to tell someone who is not familiar with CF about it. It is just so perfect.

      • Mats002

        Yes artefact, Rossi is now in same realm as Keshe, see http://www.keshefoundation.org/applications/energy

        • Gerard McEk

          Artifact is right, but from Keshe you do not see much that independently confirms that his technology works. As long as we do not see an independent confirmation of the E-cat X, we have just the blog words of Andrea, but at least we know he has been verified in the past and we know where the energy comes from.
          Keshe’s zero point energy source is really dubious.

        • Slad

          Well, unlike Keshe, Rossi hasn’t yet claimed to be the Messiah…

  • artefact

    From August about the Marie Curie reactor which is now the E-Cat X:

    “I am working with it, it is a real revolution. Is important. Works very
    strongly and I am very optimist. Now we must test its duration. The
    performance is very interesting. I want to be clear: it is too soon to
    give data, it could have problems, but what I am seeing now is very,
    very, very good. It could be the leader for the very massive production.
    We will go directly from our tests to the market. If what I am seeing
    now goes on, in October will be tried the safety certification. I am
    like a coach of tennis that looks at a kid 4 years old playing and says:
    ‘this is the future Federer’. Big , big hope”
    “.. While the Hot cat and the LT E-Cat will be destined to industrial applications, the “M. me Curie” will be destined to a completely different kind of utilization, very much popular.”
    “…While LT E-Cat and Hot Cat have been tested for years, the new born is just making the first steps. This time, when we will explain it, there will not pass much time before the distribution. No more mambojumbo-tango.”
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/08/11/what-exactly-is-the-mme-curie-reactor-a-direct-source-of-electricity/

    Together with the news now, It looks like the amount of generated electricity is big.

    I wonder if the safety certification has allready started …

    Rossi also said somewhere at some point that the old E-Cat will be brought to market like it was planned and that they try to get the E-Cat X there also as quick as possible and that it could get there at the same time with the old E-Cat.

    • Thanks for the reminder.

    • LarryJ

      Great reference. I had completely forgotten about that interview. I wonder how the certification is going.

  • Matt

    In about two months “Rossi says” will convert to “Rossi shows”, will it?

    • LarryJ

      Not likely. I don’t think Rossi/IH will say much about the 1 year test until they have product in the marketplace. There is just no reason for them to do it. Until there is a product no one would believe that announcement any more than all the earlier announcements, ie Lugano and even if it did get attention it would just create unwanted hype.

    • US_Citizen71

      When it becomes time it will be Darden shows. An endeavor like this needs a public face that is more controlled, charismatic and known by the elite than Rossi. Rossi has baggage that can be used against him, Darden has accomplishments that can be touted. When the big PR push comes it will be about marketing and marketability not who created what.

  • Omega Z

    Ahh yes.
    The Loop. Obviously this proves nothing. Possibly he is transmitting RF or has a laser beam energy transfer. The E-cat is not real. Perhaps he has an Orbo hidden inside. One can debunk anything if desperate enough and nothing can be proven absolute.
    No one has been beyond our solar system. It is quite obvious all the stars are merely a projection of our imagination or reflections off of swamp gas.

    But for certain, Darden/Rossi have no reason to provide a full proof test to the commons. Only for those who may have a vested interest.

  • Agaricus

    Mmm.. denial, feigned concern, a false choice, implied derision, feigned support, twisted meaning, dismissal, and winding up with an ad hominem attack. I don’t think you’ve missed a single trick from the troll’s manual – congratulations.

  • artefact

    Regarding the COP

    Until the E-Cat X we used the COP to calculate how much electricity is used to get a certain heat output.
    If the output is electricity I thought if one uses part of the output as input the COP is infinite.

    1) If you zoom out a little and say that to calculate the COP it is energy out / energy in, regardless in what form the energy is applied and put out, nothing has changed. The COP is still energy out / energy in just with an easier way to run the reactor on its own. That would have been possible with only heat through TECs and other things before.
    You can still measure the input before and the energy output direcly after the device. If you use some of the output as input makes you free from the grid but you still can calculate the COP (or efficiency factor) of the reactor.

    2) If you look at the reactor and all connections as a black box, if the reactor runs on its own output power you can also say its COP is infinite. Nothing goes in from the outside but electricity and heat comes out.

    -> We still have a COP for the reactor but for the whole thing the COP is infinite. That was possible with the old e-cat and got more obvios with the e-cat x.
    If you say the COP is infinite or the COP is 50 belongs on what you are talking about.The reactor/reaction itself or the overall device.

    • Omega Z

      Technically, COP is not infinite anymore then a car. It still uses fuel that will exhaust & need replenished. It is merely a more efficient energy. It is not free. It will be cheap. Well, At least we hope it is cheap. As of yet we are really clueless as to actual cost.

      • artefact

        Technically, the COP will be in the millions. Without Input energy all that counts is the conversion of mass to energy. Yes.

        • Agaricus

          I think that’s probably where we are headed. The concept of ‘COP’ is meaningless in such systems – only the power rating and charge duration will be of interest.

          • Owen Geiger

            Look how fast the E-Cat is evolving. In one year we went from a “guarantee” of COP >6, then to a possible 20-80, now to near infinity where COP no longer holds much value.

      • Brokeeper

        Lucy says 5 cents.

    • William D. Fleming

      Maybe the measure of efficiency will be useable energy produced per gram of fuel.

  • artefact

    Regarding the COP

    Until the E-Cat X we used the COP to calculate how much electricity is used to get a certain heat output.
    If the output is electricity I thought if one uses part of the output as input the COP is infinite.

    1) If you zoom out a little and say that to calculate the COP it is energy out / energy in, regardless in what form the energy is applied and put out, nothing has changed. The COP is still energy out / energy in just with an easier way to run the reactor on its own. That would have been possible with only heat through TECs and other things before.
    You can still measure the input before and the energy output direcly after the device. If you use some of the output as input makes you free from the grid but you still can calculate the COP (or efficiency factor) of the reactor.

    2) If you look at the reactor and all connections as a black box, if the reactor runs on its own output power you can also say its COP is infinite. Nothing goes in from the outside but electricity and heat comes out.

    -> We still have a COP for the reactor but for the whole thing the COP is infinite. That was possible with the old e-cat and got more obvios with the e-cat x.
    If you say the COP is infinite or the COP is 50 belongs on what you are talking about.The reactor/reaction itself or the overall device.

    • Omega Z

      Technically, COP is not infinite anymore then a car. It still uses fuel that will exhaust & need replenished. It is merely a more efficient energy. It is not free. It will be cheap. Well, At least we hope it is cheap. As of yet we are really clueless as to actual cost.

      • artefact

        Technically, the COP will be in the millions. Without Input energy all that counts is the conversion of mass to energy. Yes.

        • I think that’s probably where we are headed. The concept of ‘COP’ is meaningless in such systems, any more than the power used by spark plugs is relevant to IC engine specifications – only the power rating and charge duration (and cost, as OZ observes) will be of interest.

          • Owen Geiger

            Look how fast the E-Cat is evolving. In one year we went from a “guarantee” of COP >6, then to a possible 20-80, now to near infinity where COP no longer holds much value.

      • Brokeeper

        Lucy says 5 cents.

    • keV

      When the ecat was originally announced many were optimistic that electricity could be easily generated by it. But it became obvious shortly after that time that it wouldn’t really be commercially advantageous to generate electricity using conventional technology.

      This announcement by Rossi infers (at least to me) that the Ecat-X fits that original hope (since this is a Star Wars month I think I can get away with saying a New Hope).

      The critical difference is that (hopefully) the ECat-X will generate electricity without the 30% energy loss of conventional methods – that’s the key – that’s what “direct electrical out put” means to me me. Yes it means a lowering of thermal output energy that matches the Electrical output, but none of the energy is lost and that’s what should make it commercially attractive (which should translate to faster uptake by businesses and people).

    • William D. Fleming

      Maybe the measure of efficiency will be useable energy produced per gram of fuel.

  • Water as the propellant/fuel just became practical.

  • Water as the propellant/fuel just became practical.

  • georgehants

    243 comments to this point, in no time, I think the idea of direct electrical production has hit a nerve.
    Economic electricity able to run hospitals, water filter plants, food production, etc. etc. wherever they are needed, what a Wonderful opertunity to genuinely change the World.
    We will witness over the coming years the morality and mindset of those we elect to run our little rock.
    Will we see this technology (if genuine) used to remove all suffering and need or as today, selfishly channeled to only those that need to have more than others.
    Based on present and passed history, I think understandably, I am very skeptical that those that need power and control will ever, without revolution and war, ever let go of their pathological tendencies.

  • georgehants

    243 comments to this point, in no time, I think the idea of direct electrical production has hit a nerve.
    Economic electricity able to run hospitals, water filter plants, food production, etc. etc. wherever they are needed, what a Wonderful opertunity to genuinely change the World.
    We will witness over the coming years the morality and mindset of those we elect to run our little rock.
    Will we see this technology (if genuine) used to remove all suffering and need or as today, selfishly channeled to only those that need to have more than others.
    Based on present and passed history and understanding how such comments bore people who have all they need, I think understandably, I am very skeptical that those that need greed power and control will ever, without revolution and war, ever let go of their pathological tendencies.
    I spiritually pray I am wrong.

  • Omega Z

    Is the Low temp E-cat DEAD.

    Extremely doubtful. There is a huge demand for low temp processing. A Low temp E-cat could be built to last 4 or 5 decades.

    You will never see this with an extremely high temp E-cat X.
    Extreme temps are very destructive and such devices working at these temps have a short life cycle. There is perpetual research around the world to find materials that hold up to high temps.

    Gas turbines are the more efficient electrical generators & can be designed to power up in minutes, but they tend to be used for emergency situations or peek demand systems. Even tho substantially more efficient, the cost per kilowatt hour is higher. Note that both Gas turbines & Jet engines suck fresh air into the middle of the process because they can’t handle the extreme heat generated for extended periods of time.

    You will have different technology for different needs. Even if the low temp E-cat may have lower efficiency, overall costs will likely make it the device of choice for certain tasks. I will not be surprised to see at least 3 systems in time. low, Medium, and High temp devices.

    The Low temp E-cat is Not DEAD.

    • Agaricus

      Actually, OZ, I think it may be, or at best that type may be ‘sterile’. Why would you continue to develop the hot bulb engine when the spark plug had been invented?

      If we take Rossi at his word, the ‘e-cat x’ has several advantages over the cat/mouse, and could probably replace it entirely. Rossi says it can be mass produced, and is easily controlled (allows over-temperature issues to be avoided), and apparently the modular form should allow the construction of reactors of any chosen output.

      If all this is true it may be a commercially valid decision to junk the 250 kW modules (just as the older multi-core type was junked) after the test run, and replace them with multi- e-cat x modules as required, for yet another durability experiment. Possibly a second generation of pilot plants of the current type may be built for contractual reasons, or just to get something on the market, but they will probably be phased out in favour of the superior e-cat x variety as soon as any kinks have been ironed out (if Rossi hasn’t had an even better idea by then).

      • Gerard McEk

        In terms of performance, E-cat X will blow out every previous design eventually. The question is if the durability is equally good. High temperatures (in excess of 1453 degrees C as it seems) will put huge pressure on the chosen materials. I hope that AR brings the existing 1 MW plant on the market first and continues improving it as well as the new E-cat X. The world can’t wait forever and it would not be wise from a strategical point of view either. Maybe he could licence the 1 MW plant to IH.

        • Agaricus

          Agreed. There does seem to be some crossover concerning who owns/develops/markets what – I hope that doesn’t lead to any internal problems.

          • US_Citizen71

            My bet more than likely than not IH or Darden now owns a bit of Leonardo Corp and Rossi owns a bit of IH. Trading interests in companies is a very old method of insuring happy partnerships.

      • Omega Z

        I think you’re losing track of the goal which is the economics.
        Once you obtain a high enough COP, The energy cost becomes negligible.
        The focus then centers on hardware cost. A 15KW reactor that lasts 40 years give or take becomes extremely cheap per energy output verses a E-cat X that needs total replacement every couple years.

        High temps are extremely destructive. Nickel alloy steel burners 3/4 inch thick only last a few years at 900`C. Gas Turbines & Jet engines are limited to 1090`C maximum surface temps. Rossi intends to operate the X-cat at 1400`C+ continuous.

        Rossi has said some of the E-cat X improvements are adaptable to the Lt-cat & Hot-cat. As to improved control, I think that goes back to what Rossi has always said. Smaller is more controllable. I expect different variants for different needs. One size fits all likely doesn’t work for everything economically.

  • Omega Z

    Is the Low temp E-cat DEAD.

    Extremely doubtful. There is a huge demand for low temp processing. A Low temp E-cat could be built to last 4 or 5 decades.

    You will never see this with an extremely high temp E-cat X.
    Extreme temps are very destructive and such devices working at these temps have a short life cycle. There is perpetual research around the world to find materials that hold up to high temps.

    Gas turbines are the more efficient electrical generators & can be designed to power up in minutes, but they tend to be used for emergency situations or peek demand systems. Even tho substantially more efficient, the cost per kilowatt hour is higher. Note that both Gas turbines & Jet engines suck fresh air into the middle of the process because they can’t handle the extreme heat generated for extended periods of time.

    You will have different technology for different needs. Even if the low temp E-cat may have lower efficiency, overall costs will likely make it the device of choice for certain tasks. I will not be surprised to see at least 3 systems in time. low, Medium, and High temp devices.

    The Low temp E-cat is Not DEAD.

    • Actually, OZ, I think it may be, or at best that type may be ‘sterile’. Why would you continue to develop the hot bulb engine when the spark plug had been invented?

      If we take Rossi at his word, the ‘e-cat x’ has several advantages over the cat/mouse, and could probably replace it entirely. Rossi says it can be mass produced, and is easily controlled (allowing over-temperature issues to be avoided?) and apparently the modular form should allow the construction of reactors of any chosen output.

      If all this is true it may be a commercially valid decision to junk the 250 kW modules (just as the older multi-core type was junked) after the test run, and replace them with multi- e-cat x modules as required, for yet another durability experiment. Possibly a second generation of pilot plants of the current type may be built for contractual reasons, or just to get something on the market, but they will probably be phased out in favour of the superior e-cat x variety as soon as any kinks have been ironed out (if Rossi hasn’t had an even better idea by then).

      • Gerard McEk

        In terms of performance, E-cat X will blow out every previous design eventually. The question is if the durability is equally good. High temperatures (in excess of 1453 degrees C as it seems) will put huge pressure on the chosen materials. I hope that AR brings the existing 1 MW plant on the market first and continues improving it as well as the new E-cat X. The world can’t wait forever and it would not be wise from a strategical point of view either. Maybe he could licence the 1 MW plant to IH.

        • Agreed. There does seem to be some crossover concerning who owns/develops/markets what – I hope that doesn’t lead to any internal problems.

          • US_Citizen71

            My bet more than likely than not IH or Darden now owns a bit of Leonardo Corp and Rossi owns a bit of IH. Trading interests in companies is a very old method of insuring happy partnerships.

        • roseland67

          Gerard,
          The question(s), is the same as it has always been:
          1. Is Energy Out greater than Energy In,
          2. Is it reproducible
          3. Is it safe
          4. Is it cost effective
          5. Is it reliable
          6. Is it repairable
          If, as we have been led to believe, that # 1 is in sober fact true,
          then we all will have a ringside seat to the “Greatest Show on Earth”.

      • Omega Z

        I think you’re losing track of the goal which is the economics.
        Once you obtain a high enough COP, The energy cost becomes negligible.
        The focus then centers on hardware cost. A 15KW reactor that lasts 40 years give or take becomes extremely cheap per energy output verses a E-cat X that needs total replacement every couple years.

        High temps are extremely destructive. Nickel alloy steel burners 3/4 inch thick only last a few years at 900`C. Gas Turbines & Jet engines are limited to 1090`C maximum surface temps. Rossi intends to operate the X-cat at 1400`C+ continuous.

        Rossi has said some of the E-cat X improvements are adaptable to the Lt-cat & Hot-cat. As to improved control, I think that goes back to what Rossi has always said. Smaller is more controllable. I expect different variants for different needs. One size fits all likely doesn’t work for everything economically.

  • artefact

    on JONP:
    “Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 7:54 AM
    Paul: Yes, it can be throttled up and down and the response is fast.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • artefact

    on JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 7:54 AM
    Paul: Yes, it can be throttled up and down and the response is fast.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    “Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 8:07 AM
    Tom Conover: Honestly, I do not see what is exceptional or stunning in my answer: it is not beyond any expectancy that we can choose if to make a greater amount of heat and reduce the electric energy output, or to make a greater amount of electric energy and reduce the heat.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Alan DeAngelis

    OK, now it’s time to retrofit this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4oO9OeVp9E

    • artefact

      That will need a big subwoover under the seat to have the real feeling 🙂

  • LarryJ

    Not likely. I don’t think Rossi/IH will say much about the 1 year test until they have product in the marketplace. There is just no reason for them to do it. Until there is a product no one would believe that announcement any more than all the earlier announcements, ie Lugano and even if it did get attention it would just create unwanted hype.

  • ecatworld

    It looks like the E-Cat X is a Leonardo project, not primarily an IH one:

    Greg Leonard:
    Evolution never stops.
    For the E-Cat X to become a product it takes still time, because I invented the system yesterday, observing her working and thinking to all the theoretical studies ( still incomplete) I made on her in this period, also with the help of Prof. Norman Cook, whose book continues to be a gold mine to me.
    This having been said, to turn it into a product, an enormous work remains to be done, and Leonardo Corporation has to go through many further prototypes. For now let’s see the endurance of the E-Cat system at work.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Frank Acland

    It looks like the E-Cat X is a Leonardo project, not primarily an IH one:

    Greg Leonard:
    Evolution never stops.
    For the E-Cat X to become a product it takes still time, because I invented the system yesterday, observing her working and thinking to all the theoretical studies ( still incomplete) I made on her in this period, also with the help of Prof. Norman Cook, whose book continues to be a gold mine to me.
    This having been said, to turn it into a product, an enormous work remains to be done, and Leonardo Corporation has to go through many further prototypes. For now let’s see the endurance of the E-Cat system at work.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Axil Axil

    Is Rossi going too far ahead of where world currently wants to be? Can Rossi actually patent a overunity device when the patent office says that perpetual motion is impossible? How can Rossi word his upcoming patent to make a self powered device patentable?

    • Patents might imply that lithium and hydrogen are the consumable fuel, to avoid that type of potential problem. I think Rossi et al. may need to be ready for much more serious opposition than a bit of quibbling by patent reviewers though.

    • LilyLover

      I think good ‘faith-patentism’ will prevail eventually. I.e. public acceptance of Rossi as inventor in and of itself will become patent. People will refuse to buy anything not authorized by Rossi.
      There will be no possible rewards for infringement.
      The “government patent office” will become paper tiger and eventually vanish into oblivion.
      As of today that “office” simply serves as a barrier to entry for commoners and a back-stage-pass for lawyers of big corporations. That is one – anti-democratic, apex worshipping agency today that really needs to be replaced by open source patenting.

    • Adam Lepczak

      what are you talking about? EcatX is still based on the LENR reaction and therefore it requires “fuel” to produce the energy.

      • Axil Axil

        If the reactor has a fuel, then Rossi must know how the energy is being produced in the reactor from that fuel. But then he cannot explain how the NI62 formed in the 100 micron ash particle that was produced in the Lugano test. Rossi’s theory with Cook does not explain pure Ni62 formation.

        Will Rossi explain how heat and electricity is produced in his patent or will just assert that fuel is required without knowing how the fuel produces that energy that his reactor generates? Will the patent office allow such a patent that cannot explain how energy is produced?

        Even if Rossi does not understand how his reactor works, will people accept it without that operating description? Rossi might need to make something up to make the patent office and the people sanguine. How can Rossi prove that the E-Cat is not an perpetual motion machine?

  • Fibber McGourlic

    If the one-year-one-megawatt test is dropped in favor of pressing ahead full-speed with the e-Cat x, so what? Surely they will not suppress the results of the first ten months of the 1 meg test, which will be enough to prove the LENR reactor claims made by Dr. Rossi are true. He will then win the Nobel prize before Mr. Godes gets it.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    If the one-megawatt-one-year test is cancelled in order to
    pursue the E-Cat X full-steam ahead, so what?
    Surely Industrial Heat will not suppress the results that ten months of testing has achieved so far. This data alone will be sufficient to show the world that Dr. Rossi’s reactor results are solid
    proof of LENR and thereby his success in delivering a method of providing clean energy to the endangered world at a reasonable price (before untold billions are wasted on inferior methods of replacing fossil fuels.) There would be an extra well-earned benefit in this for Dr.Rossi. He would then surely receive the Nobel prize in physics (and possibly for Peace, as well) before Mr. Godes gets it (or them).

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Let not forget that when the MW plant test was started, it was assumed that it was impossible to get a US patent for it. The issuing of the patent must have changed the Leonardo/ IH strategic business plan. They must be more relaxed now that the IP is protected. I think the MW plant was there to put an end to the “Please, May I have a cup of tea?” jokes that were coming from the mainstream for decades (a fact that they’re hoping we will forget).

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Yes, it will put an end to those kind of jokes. Moreover, history will make a joke out of the naysayers and absolutely condemn those in the scientific establishment who actually impeded the developments.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          And we will also remember the courageous ones from the mainstream who stuck their necks out in 1989 (like for example George H Miley).

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Absolutely. And, as well, the MIT professor (Dr. Hagelstein) who had his potential LENR grant ripped away from him by his absolutist-thinking science boss who seems to have forgotten that the hallmark of science is curiosity.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            He had the courage of his convictions and paid a heavy personal price to maintaIn the truth about LENR. Here’s his bio. (from wikipedia):

            Peter L. Hagelstein is a principal investigator in the Research Laboratory of Electronics (RLE) and an Associate Professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). He received a bachelor of science and a master of science degree in 1976, then a Doctor of Philosophy degree in electrical engineering in 1981, from MIT. He was a staff member of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory from 1981 to 1985 before joining the MIT faculty in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science in 1986.

            Hagelstein’s early work focused on extreme ultraviolet and soft X-ray lasers, relativistic atomic structure and electron collision physics, autoionization and dielectronic recombination processes, plasma population kinetics, radiation transport and large scale physics simulation. He received the Ernest Orlando Lawrence Award in 1984 for his innovation and creativity in X-ray laser physics. While working in the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory he pioneered the work that later produced the first X-ray laser, which would later become important for the US Strategic Defense Initiative, popularly referred to as the “Star Wars” program.[1]

            In 1989 he started investigating cold fusion (also called low-energy nuclear reactions) with the hope of making a breakthrough similar to the X-ray laser.[2]
            In the period between 1989 and 2004, the field became discredited in
            the eyes of many scientists. Due to his involvement, as of 2004 he has
            not achieved full professorship and he has lost his own laboratory.[2]

            His recent efforts have included the invention of semiconductor technology that could allow efficient, affordable production of electricity from a variety of energy sources,[3][4] as well as continuing investigations of low-energy nuclear reactions. Hagelstein is the co-author of a new textbook, Introductory Applied Quantum and Statistical Mechanics, and chaired the Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion in 2003.[5]

          • Agaricus

            The entry hasn’t been updated for ten years it seems. Once you’ve fallen down the memory hole you disappear, over there in the ‘other’ world.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis
          • I took your tip and got one for a fiver.

          • Timar

            Taubes ist the worst possible example of a science journalist. After writing this hatchet job, he became a bestselling author on nutrition with “Good Calories, Bad Calories”, now making himself out to be an anti-establishment guy. Ironically, though, he managed to be just as dead wrong as a nutritional science maverick as he was as a mouthpiece of the hot fusion establishment. He certainly has done a lot of damage with his books. “Bad Science” helped to ruin the reputation of Fleischmann & Pons, “Good Calories, Bad Calories” helped to ruin his most credulous reader’s health.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    If the one-megawatt-one-year test is cancelled in order to
    pursue the E-Cat X full-steam ahead, so what?
    Surely Industrial Heat will not suppress the results that ten months of testing has achieved so far. This data alone will be sufficient to show the world that Dr. Rossi’s reactor results are solid
    proof of LENR and thereby his success in delivering a method of providing clean energy to the endangered world at a reasonable price (before untold billions are wasted on inferior methods of replacing fossil fuels.) There would be an extra well-earned benefit in this for Dr.Rossi. He would then surely receive the Nobel prize in physics (and possibly for Peace, as well) before Mr. Godes gets it (or them).

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Let not forget that when the MW plant test was started, it was assumed that it was impossible to get a US patent for it. The issuing of the patent must have changed the Leonardo/ IH strategic business plan. They must be more relaxed now that the IP is protected. I think the MW plant was there to put an end to the “Please, May I have a cup of tea?” jokes that were coming from the mainstream for decades (a fact that they’re hoping we will forget).

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Yes, it will put an end to those kind of jokes. Moreover, history will make a joke out of the naysayers and absolutely condemn those in the scientific establishment who actually impeded the developments.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          And we will also remember the courageous ones from the mainstream who stuck their necks out in 1989 (like for example George H Miley).

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Absolutely. And, as well, the MIT professor (Dr. Hagelstein) who had his potential LENR grant ripped away from him by his absolutist-thinking science boss who seems to have forgotten that the hallmark of science is curiosity.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            He had the courage of his convictions and paid a heavy personal price to maintaIn the truth about LENR. Here’s his bio. (from wikipedia):

            Peter L. Hagelstein is a principal investigator in the Research Laboratory of Electronics (RLE) and an Associate Professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). He received a bachelor of science and a master of science degree in 1976, then a Doctor of Philosophy degree in electrical engineering in 1981, from MIT. He was a staff member of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory from 1981 to 1985 before joining the MIT faculty in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science in 1986.

            Hagelstein’s early work focused on extreme ultraviolet and soft X-ray lasers, relativistic atomic structure and electron collision physics, autoionization and dielectronic recombination processes, plasma population kinetics, radiation transport and large scale physics simulation. He received the Ernest Orlando Lawrence Award in 1984 for his innovation and creativity in X-ray laser physics. While working in the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory he pioneered the work that later produced the first X-ray laser, which would later become important for the US Strategic Defense Initiative, popularly referred to as the “Star Wars” program.[1]

            In 1989 he started investigating cold fusion (also called low-energy nuclear reactions) with the hope of making a breakthrough similar to the X-ray laser.[2]
            In the period between 1989 and 2004, the field became discredited in
            the eyes of many scientists. Due to his involvement, as of 2004 he has
            not achieved full professorship and he has lost his own laboratory.[2]

            His recent efforts have included the invention of semiconductor technology that could allow efficient, affordable production of electricity from a variety of energy sources,[3][4] as well as continuing investigations of low-energy nuclear reactions. Hagelstein is the co-author of a new textbook, Introductory Applied Quantum and Statistical Mechanics, and chaired the Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion in 2003.[5]

          • The entry hasn’t been updated for ten years it seems. Once you’ve fallen down the memory hole its as if you cease to exist over there in the ‘real world’.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis
          • I took your tip and got one for a fiver.

          • Timar

            Taubes ist the worst possible example of a science journalist. After writing this hatchet job, he became a bestselling author on nutrition with “Good Calories, Bad Calories”, now making himself out to be an anti-establishment guy. Ironically, though, he managed to be just as dead wrong as a nutritional science maverick as he was as a mouthpiece of the hot fusion establishment. He certainly has done a lot of damage with his books. “Bad Science” helped to ruin the reputation of Fleischmann & Pons, “Good Calories, Bad Calories” helped to ruin his most credulous reader’s health.

          • Jeff Gress

            You are wrong about “Good Calories, Bad Calories”. I have significantly improved my health by reducing my intake of “bad” calories (refined carbohydrates). His research on the history of nutrition science was spot on!

          • Wow, Taubes was already in my bad books for his grossly wrong and harmful work on nutrition. I had no idea he was also spreading lies about cold fusion. What a boob.

  • US_Citizen71

    When it becomes time it will be Darden shows. An endeavor like this needs a public face that is more controlled, charismatic and known by the elite than Rossi. Rossi has baggage that can be used against him, Darden has accomplishments that can be touted. When the big PR push comes it will be about marketing and marketability not who created what.

  • Paul Smith

    E-Cat-X produces electricity also during the SSM periods.

    • deleo77

      If Rossi just invented an E-Cat that directly creates electricity and has an SSM mode, as he claims to have done 2 days ago, it would be one of the biggest single inventions in human history. It sounds crazy to say that, but it is hard to come to any other conclusion. Rossi has since said that he did this alone, and that no one else has seen it do this but him. So every follower’s faith is being tested on this one. But it really makes Fabiani’s words in his interview that much more important to read. He said he has seen the E-Cat X in action and he describes it as something people wouldn’t believe. I see Fabiani as a validation that this could all be the real deal. Thank you Mats for that interview.

      • bkrharold

        I wonder if Rossi means the electricity is being generated by heat from the X-Cat, rather than directly. Surely direct generation of electricity would require a constant stream of charged particles, or a fluctuating electromagnetic field. It is easier to imagine a thermoelectric converter, or a highly efficient micro turbine, than direct generation.

        • bachcole

          He said clearly and distinctly “directly”.

          • artefact

            and Rossi talkes since August 2014 of an electrostatic force which is generated inside the e-cat.

          • Paul Smith

            Q: Does this device contain any moving parts?

            A: Confidential

            Rossi hasn’t denied, so it could be possible that electricity is generated by a microturbine and a dynamo.. we will see…

      • bachcole

        I agree.

    • artefact

      “Italo R. December 27th, 2015 at 11:38 AM
      Dear Dr. Rossi, does the E-Cat-X produce electricity also during SSM periods?
      Kind Regards, Italo R.

      Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 1:01 PM
      Italo R.: Yes.
      Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Barbierir

    My head is spinning for too much mind-boggliness.

  • deleo77

    If Rossi just invented an E-Cat that directly creates electricity and has an SSM mode, as he claims to have done 2 days ago, it would be one of the biggest single inventions in human history. It sounds crazy to say that, but it is hard to come to any other conclusion. Rossi has since said that he did this alone, and that no one else has seen it do this but him. So every follower’s faith is being tested on this one. But it really makes Fabiani’s words in his interview that much more important to read. He said he has seen the E-Cat X in action and he describes it as something people wouldn’t believe. I see Fabiani as a validation that this could all be the real deal. Thank you Mats for that interview.

    • bkrharold

      I wonder if Rossi means the electricity is being generated by heat from the X-Cat, rather than directly. Surely direct generation of electricity would require a fluctuating electromagnetic field. It is easier to imagine a thermoelectric converter, or a highly efficient micro turbine, than direct generation.

      • bachcole

        He said clearly and distinctly “directly”.

        • artefact

          and Rossi talkes since August 2014 of an electrostatic force which is generated inside the e-cat.

      • Akum:

        You can’t imagine how impatient am I, but I must be patient all the way, working to make it happen as soon as possible. Sometime you can’t foresee: for example, I studied for years how to get out from an E-Cat directly electricity ( we had traces of it), but I have not been able and for those years no progress has been done…suddenly, during a night in the plant, I got an idea that arrived unexpected, and in few seconds we got a progress that we didn’t get in years.

        Therefore, it is impossible to give an answer.

        Warm Regards,

        A.R.

        • Buck

          I think Einstein’s quote is relevant:

          “The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.”

    • bachcole

      I agree.

  • Ophelia Rump

    On the bright side, if in two months or a year and two months, the E-Cat became commonly acknowledged as existing technology; convincing people that the E-Cat-X could produce electricity would be fairly easy to do.

  • Da Phys

    Direct production of electricity with a E-Cat-type device would be a second miracle. Let’s first wait for a confirmation of the first miracle, hopefully in the next few months.

  • Owen Geiger

    The E-Cat X sounds ideally suited for on-site heat and power production, including home use and off-grid use. It could revolutionize the transportation industry. For cars and trucks just add a matching sized battery for storage and you’d have a very efficient electric vehicle. Tesla and other automakers won’t be able to keep up with demand. There should be a healthy retrofit market that does conversions because most people will no longer want to buy gas.

  • Owen Geiger

    The E-Cat X sounds ideally suited for on-site heat and power production, including home use and off-grid use. It could revolutionize the transportation industry. For cars and trucks just add a matching sized battery for storage and you’d have a very efficient electric vehicle. Tesla and other automakers won’t be able to keep up with demand. There should be a healthy retrofit market that does conversions because most people will no longer want to buy gas.

    Note: I’m assuming DC current from a very compact wafer design.

  • artefact

    On JONP:
    “Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 6:24 PM
    Jean Paul Renoir:
    My dream is a product for everybody that makes everybody make money with
    it. I am also studying a commercial system that will allow everybody to
    make money with the E-Cat. I dream a product that extends the benefits
    of it to everybody. Until I will not arrive to this point my work will
    not have been terminated.I want to make not only a revolution in the
    energy field, but also in the commercial field. F9.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is actually easy achieve if the E-Cat can come to market.
      Aside from the immediate effect of democratizing energy generation and the benefits of that energy. Dottore Rossi’s E-Cats will power light weight space travel which has always suffered the problem of lifting it’s own fuel out of the energy well, and pushing it through space.

      Picture for a moment a fleet of space drones used for mining the asteroids, gas giants and comets of space. They would all be fueled and powered by the light weight LENR reactors.

      A deal could be made where profits from participating drones would be pooled and some of the profit would go back into the creation of more drones for distribution to an ever expanding pool of new candidates in communities around the globe. In this way the fleet would grow and all humanity share in the tremendous wealth brought back to earth from the heavens. For the first time in history humanity would share the good fortune globally, as refining and manufacturing in space grew and mankind grows into a golden age of prosperity.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Gold will become a non-biodegradable pollutant that has too be managed.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Like having too many o’s in to.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        The E-Cat will change life in ways we can’t even imagine. The story of aluminum may be an analogy.
        “Aluminum is one of the three most common elements found within the Earth’s crust. However, until relatively recently, extracting aluminum from the bauxite ore in which it naturally occurs was a costly and difficult process. And prior to the advent of efficient chemical and electrical processes to separate aluminum from bauxite in the late 1800s, the shiny, flexible metal was more valuable than gold.”
        http://knowledgenuts.com/2014/02/27/the-metal-that-was-once-worth-more-than-gold/

      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis

          Sorry if I just upset any rich folks out there.

        • Ryan

          I want mine to be a starship (or at least space capable), perhaps with an EM Drive or Mach Drive if they turn out to work as hoped.

      • malkom700

        With regard to the drones, we must also build a huge drones to automatically collect garbage in space.

        • Agaricus

          I’d quite like them to come and collect my garbage – otherwise I have to drag it all up to the nearest road twice a month.

          • malkom700

            The home automated machines will require a lot of energy, have no idea where we get enough energy …

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Ophelia, Space enthusiasm is good. Some facts, in brief:
        – Moon surface, Mars surface & Outer solar system: LENR is enabling tech because solar panels are not an option during night & winter & RTG would be hugely expensive.
        – Asteroid mining etc.: Can be powered by solar panels. LENR may help, but is not panacea. For efficient transportation one needs propellantless concept (E-sail or perhaps photonic sail), because if done only by ion engine, power consumption is so huge than cooling becomes an issue even with ideal LENR.
        – Giant planets: You don’t mine them because huge gravity.

      • Bob

        Hmmm… we might want to reconsider mining asteroids. I am not a expert and actually know very little on this subject, but the following seems logical.
        .
        Bringing millions of tons of ore from asteroids to the earth would over a relative short period of time (say a 100 years) could possibly add enough mass that it would effect the earth’s orbit. It is positive that a larger mass would only cause the earth to start a diminishing orbit around the sun due to greater gravitational attraction.
        .
        So if climate change is a problem now….. think how hot it would get if the earth starts getting closer to the sun! Perhaps Pekka can speak to this issue with more education than I.
        .
        Some times we should watch out what we wish for!!!!
        .
        Anyway, all this is fantasy until we at least get simple ground based device working in public…
        therefore I will continue to wait……

        • Warthog

          You don’t bring the asteroids to earth, you bring the finished product or refined metal. Leave the rest of the ore on the moon, or in lunar orbit.

          But I suggest you run some calculations to see how many google-plexes of ore mass would be necessary to even get to a tiny measurable orbital effect.

          • bachcole

            What effect? If the ore is going at the same speed as the revolution and rotation of the Earth, what effect? There would be no effect whatsoever.

    • That’s the most encouraging thing I’ve ever heard him say.

    • SG

      Specialized Bitcoin miner for all with a clean-energy e-Cat X to provide the electricity. Not only would it make everybody money, but it would help to secure the largest decentralized network (and immutable ledger) in the world.

    • Gerard McEk

      I guess that AR is thinking about providing his EcatX to anyone to integrate it in their product: Home power units, cars, industrial energy supplies, desalination etc. etc.. That would be a great development!

  • artefact

    On JONP:
    “Andrea Rossi December 27th, 2015 at 6:24 PM
    Jean Paul Renoir:
    My dream is a product for everybody that makes everybody make money with
    it. I am also studying a commercial system that will allow everybody to
    make money with the E-Cat. I dream a product that extends the benefits
    of it to everybody. Until I will not arrive to this point my work will
    not have been terminated.I want to make not only a revolution in the
    energy field, but also in the commercial field. F9.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is actually easy achieve if the E-Cat can come to market.
      Aside from the immediate effect of democratizing energy generation and the benefits of that energy. Dottore Rossi’s E-Cats will power light weight space travel which has always suffered the problem of lifting it’s own fuel out of the energy well, and pushing it through space.

      Picture for a moment a fleet of space drones used for mining the asteroids, gas giants and comets of space. They would all be fueled and powered by the light weight LENR reactors.

      A deal could be made where profits from participating drones would be pooled and some of the profit would go back into the creation of more drones for distribution to an ever expanding pool of new candidates in communities around the globe. In this way the fleet would grow and all humanity share in the tremendous wealth brought back to earth from the heavens. For the first time in history humanity would share the good fortune globally, as refining and manufacturing in space grew and mankind grows into a golden age of prosperity.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Gold will become a non-biodegradable pollutant that has too be managed.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Like having too many o’s in to.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        The E-Cat will change life in ways we can’t even imagine. The story of aluminum may be an analogy.
        “Aluminum is one of the three most common elements found within the Earth’s crust. However, until relatively recently, extracting aluminum from the bauxite ore in which it naturally occurs was a costly and difficult process. And prior to the advent of efficient chemical and electrical processes to separate aluminum from bauxite in the late 1800s, the shiny, flexible metal was more valuable than gold.”
        http://knowledgenuts.com/2014/02/27/the-metal-that-was-once-worth-more-than-gold/

      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Alan DeAngelis

          Sorry if I just upset any rich folks out there.

        • Ryan

          I want mine to be a starship (or at least space capable), perhaps with an EM Drive or Mach Drive if they turn out to work as hoped.

      • malkom700

        With regard to the drones, we must also build a huge drones to automatically collect garbage in space.

        • I’d quite like them to come and collect my garbage – otherwise I have to drag it all up to the nearest road twice a month.

          • malkom700

            The home automated machines will require a lot of energy, have no idea where we get enough energy …

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Ophelia, Space enthusiasm is good. Some facts, in brief:
        – Moon surface, Mars surface & Outer solar system: LENR is enabling tech because solar panels are not an option during night & winter & RTG would be hugely expensive.
        – Asteroid mining etc.: Can be powered by solar panels. LENR may help, but is not panacea. For efficient transportation one needs propellantless concept (E-sail or perhaps photonic sail), because if done only by ion engine, power consumption is so huge than cooling becomes an issue even with ideal LENR.
        – Giant planets: You don’t mine them because huge gravity.

      • Bob

        Hmmm… we might want to reconsider mining asteroids. I am not a expert and actually know very little on this subject, but the following seems logical.
        .
        Bringing millions of tons of ore from asteroids to the earth would over a relative short period of time (say a 100 years) could possibly add enough mass that it would effect the earth’s orbit. It is positive that a larger mass would only cause the earth to start a diminishing orbit around the sun due to greater gravitational attraction.
        .
        So if climate change is a problem now….. think how hot it would get if the earth starts getting closer to the sun! Perhaps Pekka can speak to this issue with more education than I.
        .
        Some times we should watch out what we wish for!!!!
        .
        Anyway, all this is fantasy until we at least get simple ground based device working in public…
        therefore I will continue to wait……

        • Warthog

          You don’t bring the asteroids to earth, you bring the finished product or refined metal. Leave the rest of the ore on the moon, or in lunar orbit.

          But I suggest you run some calculations to see how many google-plexes of ore mass would be necessary to even get to a tiny measurable orbital effect.

          • bachcole

            What effect? If the ore is going at the same speed as the revolution and rotation of the Earth, what effect? There would be no effect whatsoever.

    • That’s the most encouraging thing I’ve ever heard him say.

    • SG

      Specialized Bitcoin miner for all with a clean-energy e-Cat X to provide the electricity. Not only would it make everybody money, but it would help to secure the largest decentralized network (and immutable ledger) in the world.

    • Gerard McEk

      I guess that AR is thinking about providing his EcatX to anyone to integrate it in their product: Home power units, cars, industrial energy supplies, desalination etc. etc.. That would be a great development!

    • clovis ray

      Yahoooo, for A.R., now that the way to stir up the base, i’m with you Dr. Rossi, to the future and beyond,… smile.

  • Rossi had previously stated that it would take 20 years for the E-Cat to be used in cars. I wonder if these new developments might not speed that process. We desperately need to get to the point where the public understands that LENR is real. Once that point is reached, there will be allot of pressure on Rossi and the other LENR companies to get things moving faster, and they will have lots of financial backing to help them. It could become an investment bubble like the early days of the Internet. Japanese companies had literally thousands of scientists and engineers working on flat panel television technology, and look how fast that technology has grown and matured. If we get 5,000 scientists and engineers around the world working on LENR, who knows what they may discover. 5,000 is a realistic number. Toshiba alone had 500 engineers working on OLED screen technology, and that is just one mid sized company. Japan, Korea, China, the USA, Europe all have scientists who need gainful employment. LENR could be a money maker for them all.

    • LilyLover

      Is Faraday Future sitting on Chinese money + GM’s Hummer++ Hydroforming technology + waiting on E-Cat X’s success?
      Perhaps not. But now that I said it – the Universe will conspire for it to happen.
      Ha! Ha!! Ha!!!

    • Mats002

      Interesting that you compare LENR and OLED, I think it is a very good study to do.

      Back in early 1992 there was an article about the promise of organic LED in swedish Ny Teknik (not by Mats Lewan though), a professor Gunther Leising, University of Graz i Austria was the goto guy for this discovery. The big thing at that time was how to get the blue – and by that the white color, well by that all the spectrum of colors. Leising did the great break through!

      I see at least two interesting things here:
      a) the timeline from discovery to first product and a large work force
      b) the original people and organisations selldom get the credits they deserve,
      the Nobel prize for blue LED went to another group in Japan, who know anything about Leising today?

    • Tom59

      5000 people is modest – Apple has 800 scientist on the camera of the iphone alone

  • Gerrit

    [OT] Emeritus Professor of Optics, Physics & ECE, Dr. Michael Bass, pleads that the public be more scientifically literate and then brings up pathological science:

    “It is important that scientifically literate citizens be able to recognize that flaw. In the early 1990s, scientists in Utah thought they observed nuclear fusion in a quite standard electrolysis experiment. They dubbed it “cold fusion,” and if it had been true it would have solved the world’s energy problems. Of course, it was not.”

    http://claytodayonline.com/stories/toward-a-more-scientifically-literate-public,409
    http://www.creol.ucf.edu/people/Details.aspx?PeopleID=293

    Oh, what sad times are these when ignorant professors can blame the public for being ignorant.

    • Gerard McEk

      He will need a lot of faith to maintain his ignorence in the coming years! 🙂

      • Stephen

        When Andrea Rossi talks about Measuring the EM environment if he means a static EM field or EM radiation. And if this relates directly to th DC electric current generation or is an additional side effect? I suppose even a static field could generate radiation if it is manipulated or rotated or oscillated by some internal means or external stimuli. If EM radiation is generated I wonder if it’s frequency can be tuned and modulated and maybe beamed to provide communications capability, or to be used in near field inductance of other devices or far field beamed energy transmission. Could it for example generate THz or microwave radiation or other radio wavelengths? And since EM radiation includes all wavelengths and frequencies could it be tuned to optimally generate radiation at frequencies ranging from radio to optical and even above?

        Well what ever it does generating heat and electricity is already astonishing enough.

        • clovis ray

          Stephen, HI.
          This thing seem to only work, when some part of it is pulsed, not quite sure, if it’S the power source, or an external wave being administered, but pulsing of the device could be used to produce AC in some way, but even if it is direct current, it is easily converted as you well know, just my guess.,

    • georgehants

      Gerrit, until the time comes when every scientists loses their brainwashing from the education establishment and openly and professionally discuss all scientific subjects now banned, such as UFO’s, Telepathy, Cold Fusion, NDE etc. etc. then scientists will continue to be regarded correctly as uneducated clowns.
      There are I think many, even on these pages that will hide under the table at my mere mention of such subjects.
      Science is Evidence not Dogma and closed minded denial.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think that the attitude of most scientists to UFOs, telepathy and near-death experiences is that the topics are in principle interesting, but that doing science on them would be possible only after someone invents a way to get measurements and data. In other words, they are in principle open-minded, but due to current lack of ways to study the phenomena, they cannot but raise their hands, for the time being. A scientist is like a craftsman who processes facts.

        Of course, some people tend to make the mistake of equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence and for example saying that UFOs do not “exists” (whatever he means by it) because they cannot currently be studied experimentally any more than what has already been done.

        Cold fusion is a different story, because there we see some unscientific refusal to look at available and published evidence. That is no longer a nuance of philosophy, but plain old irrational stupidity.

        • Valeriy Tarasov

          Stupidity is correct with one addition – theory, saying that it is not possible, was dominating over the facts (not so bold but still the facts). Thus, scientific method was substituted by faith.

          • it is what I see as main deep reason to reject LENR.

            It is clear there is nothing uncommon in LENr experiments for experienced scientists, who agree with many things more subtle than F&P kind of calorimetry.

            the problems is that
            1- physicist cannot imagine, refuse to imagine, oppose to imagine, that there is a kind of collective QM nuclear reaction that may exist, because they never have seen it before.
            2- so they cannot imagine it does not work exactly as hut fusion (tritium, neutrons, nearly no He4)

            all the critics on the calorimetry, or about frauds or incompétence, are just bad excuse .
            They don’t even analyse the credibility of their claims because they are just sure they are right.

          • Warthog

            Julian Schwinger, Nobel Laureate in Physics, had no such problem envisioning a “collective QM nuclear reaction”, and said so publicly. He immediately became anathema, and mainstream journals refused to publish his theoretical publications attempting to explain the subject.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, you are not talking facts but opinion, the Evidence for the subjects I have mentioned above are indisputable to any competent scientist.
          Please before you give a establishment cover-up answer do your Research and then please come back and discus Evidence and not closed-minded propaganda.
          ——-
          Even phenomena in the future were accurately witnessed on numerous occasions in pre-cognitive remote viewing sessions. (Robert Jahn and his group at the PEAR lab
          [Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research] have for over 20 years found statistically significant evidence of the same RV and pre-cognitive RV abilities in average subjects off the street.[1])
          ——-
          Fortunately, the full, true story of remote viewing’s validity and its successful applications is available from several sources. The peer-reviewed science periodical, Journal of Scientific Exploration, devoted its Spring 1996 issue to several articles revealing the effectiveness of remote viewing
          http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Remote_Viewing.html

        • bachcole

          Pekka lives in a sheltered and decent social/scientific environment. In the USA, England, and such places, if a scientist were to try to study UFOs or NDEs, their careers would be over. To even make reference to a person who has done such studies, even if the reference was about a more conventional subject, would be career suicide.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, have you correctly observed the power of blind obedience to establishment propaganda and the following of your easily dismissed comment, showing that you have never Researched the Facts of my above subjects but are simply following establishment programming.
          You have nine likes and my below answer to you has two.
          Mine is the Truthful factual answer regarding the subjects shown by my attached links, but is completely ignored by most people unable to pull themselves away from upsetting the status-quo.
          Cold Fusion denial and debunking by 95% of “scientists” is the result of such fear of facing the Truth.
          Do you think that laughable position is how science should be?

    • Agaricus
      • Omega Z

        If someone says:
        “That’s impossible.”

        Just Say, Stand back and let those who know better show you how!

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah, Julian Schwinger was a dope.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Schwinger

    • bachcole

      Oh what fun we are going to have taking that jerk down several notches, soon, every soon.

  • Gerrit

    [OT] Emeritus Professor of Optics, Physics & ECE, Dr. Michael Bass, pleads that the public be more scientifically literate and then brings up pathological science:

    “It is important that scientifically literate citizens be able to recognize that flaw. In the early 1990s, scientists in Utah thought they observed nuclear fusion in a quite standard electrolysis experiment. They dubbed it “cold fusion,” and if it had been true it would have solved the world’s energy problems. Of course, it was not.”

    http://claytodayonline.com/stories/toward-a-more-scientifically-literate-public,409
    http://www.creol.ucf.edu/people/Details.aspx?PeopleID=293

    Oh, what sad times are these when ignorant professors can blame the public for being ignorant.

    • Gerard McEk

      He will need a lot of faith to maintain his ignorence in the coming years! 🙂

    • georgehants

      Gerrit, until the time comes when every scientists loses their brainwashing from the education establishment and openly and professionally discuss all scientific subjects now banned, such as UFO’s, Telepathy, Cold Fusion, NDE etc. etc. then most scientists will continue to be regarded correctly as uneducated clowns.
      There are I think many, even on these pages that will hide under the table at my mere mention of such subjects.
      Science is Evidence not Dogma and closed minded denial.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I think that the attitude of most scientists to UFOs, telepathy and near-death experiences is that the topics are in principle interesting, but that doing science on them would be possible only after someone invents a way to get measurements and data. In other words, they are in principle open-minded, but due to current lack of ways to study the phenomena, they cannot but raise their hands, for the time being. A scientist is like a craftsman who processes facts.

        Of course, some people tend to make the mistake of equating absence of evidence with evidence of absence and for example saying that UFOs do not “exists” (whatever he means by it) because they cannot currently be studied experimentally any more than what has already been done.

        Cold fusion is a different story, because there we see some unscientific refusal to look at available and published evidence. That is no longer a nuance of philosophy, but plain old irrational stupidity.

        • Valeriy Tarasov

          Stupidity is correct with one addition – theory, saying that it is not possible, was dominating over the facts (not so bold but still the facts). Thus, scientific method was substituted by faith.

          • it is what I see as main deep reason to reject LENR.

            It is clear there is nothing uncommon in LENr experiments for experienced scientists, who agree with many things more subtle than F&P kind of calorimetry.

            the problems is that
            1- physicist cannot imagine, refuse to imagine, oppose to imagine, that there is a kind of collective QM nuclear reaction that may exist, because they never have seen it before.
            2- so they cannot imagine it does not work exactly as hut fusion (tritium, neutrons, nearly no He4)

            all the critics on the calorimetry, or about frauds or incompétence, are just bad excuse .
            They don’t even analyse the credibility of their claims because they are just sure they are right.

          • Warthog

            Julian Schwinger, Nobel Laureate in Physics, had no such problem envisioning a “collective QM nuclear reaction”, and said so publicly. He immediately became anathema, and mainstream journals refused to publish his theoretical publications attempting to explain the subject.

          • David Dow

            I think it’s more than that. They don’t even analyse the credibility of their claims because this technology is a threat to them financially, credibility wise, and ego wise. Who wants to admit they were wrong after making such an effort to discredit for all of these years. The truth eventually is going to come out and when it does, I wouldn’t want to be in any of their shoes.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, you are not talking facts but opinion, the Evidence for the subjects I have mentioned above are indisputable to any competent scientist.
          Please before you give an establishment cover-up answer do your Research and then please come back and discus Evidence and not closed-minded propaganda.
          ——-
          Even phenomena in the future were accurately witnessed on numerous occasions in pre-cognitive remote viewing sessions. (Robert Jahn and his group at the PEAR lab
          [Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research] have for over 20 years found statistically significant evidence of the same RV and pre-cognitive RV abilities in average subjects off the street.[1])
          ——-
          Fortunately, the full, true story of remote viewing’s validity and its successful applications is available from several sources. The peer-reviewed science periodical, Journal of Scientific Exploration, devoted its Spring 1996 issue to several articles revealing the effectiveness of remote viewing
          http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Remote_Viewing.html

          • bachcole

            The evidence may be indisputable, but the interpretation of the evidence is very much in dispute. For example, no one disputes that there have been lights in the sky; but the interpretation of those light is not agreed upon, nor are the lights testable.

          • georgehants

            Your answer even if correct, which it is not as there is far more solid Evidence than lights, simply means that any competent scientist would demand more Research and investigation, which is their only job, not giving out ridiculous opinions.
            Cold Fusion is exactly the same as the above subjects, uneducated, ignorant scientists, brain-washed into denial and debunking and intellectually completely unable to see the difference between “interpretation,” opinions and Facts.
            An “interpretation” is in science something to be laughed at, only Evidence is scientifically valid and if that Evidence is not complete (temporarily) then only more Research is in order.

        • bachcole

          Pekka lives in a sheltered and decent social/scientific environment. In the USA, England, and such places, if a scientist were to try to study UFOs or NDEs, their careers would be over. To even make reference to a person who has done such studies, even if the reference was about a more conventional subject, would be career suicide.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, have you correctly observed the power of blind obedience to establishment propaganda and the following of your easily dismissed comment, showing that you have never Researched the Facts of my above subjects but are simply following establishment programming.
          You have nine likes and my below answer to you has two.
          Mine is the Truthful factual answer regarding the subjects shown by my attached links, but is completely ignored by most people unable to pull themselves away from upsetting the status-quo.
          Cold Fusion denial and debunking by 95% of “scientists” is the result of such fear of facing the Truth.
          Do you think that laughable position of people following your incorrect opinion because they think you are qualified in a subject that you clearly know nothing about, or should they follow (carefully) the Facts I have shown on page.

      • Omega Z

        If someone says:
        “That’s impossible.”

        Just Say, Stand back and let those who know better show you how!

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah, Julian Schwinger was a dope.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Schwinger

      • clovis ray

        I Would hate to spoil the article, but here is a clipped paragraph.

        After 1989 Schwinger took a keen interest in the non-mainstream research of cold fusion. He wrote eight theory papers about it. He resigned from the American Physical Society after their refusal to publish his papers.[3] He felt that cold fusion research was being suppressed and academic freedom violated. He wrote: “The pressure for conformity is enormous. I have experienced it in editors’ rejection of submitted papers, based on venomous criticism of anonymous referees. The replacement of impartial reviewing by censorship will be the death of science.”

  • pg

    Is it just my impression or it feels like Rossi and IH have parted ways? He does not refer to them any more, but only to Leonardo Corporation.

    • Andrew Hurley

      I very much doubt that they have parted ways. I think IH only has rights associated with IP related to the low temp E-CAT.

    • Bob

      It is a concern. However, after several months of silence, Darden did make a short announcement back in the fall. This was after several posters raised this very question. Rossi then also posted that all was good between the two.
      .
      Rossi has indeed changed his tone over the past year. At one time, he gushed openly about IH / Darden relationship and how they were of one mind, one intention etc. How this major corporation, which he had become chief scientist of, was providing all that he needed. He now never mentions them, but always Leonardo Corp. He never states that he is Chief Scientist anymore. It is a bit strange. Some state the patent application is proof, but that was applied for a year ago, so much could happen in the mean time.
      .
      I certainly hope there has been no falling out. Darden is the only thing that gives me any confidence with Rossi at present. If IH / Darden goes the way of Seimens and National Instruments, it will be a grave statement indeed.
      .
      In lieu of a publication from Darden….I continue to wait…

    • Fibber McGourlick

      Someone with weight should simply ask Dr. Rossi a proper question about it. If he says there’s not been a parting of the ways then there’s nothing to worry about. If he says nothing at all or equivocates about it, that’s something to worry about.

  • georgehants

    “Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was
    considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some
    orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly.
    The entire web of culture and ‘progress,’ everything on earth that is
    man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of
    some man’s refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no
    more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for
    the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde
    truly said, ‘Disobedience was man’s Original Virtue.””
    ˜Robert Anton Wilson

    • Alan DeAngelis

      The marbled institutions that set cold fusion/LENR back a quarter of a century will prey upon the understandable ignorance of the new comers to the history of this discovery by playing their pedigree cards and saying that Fleischmann and Pons were “debunked”.

      This video from the 1990s is for the new comers.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Pardon me
        …newcomers…

      • Axil Axil

        Silvio Caggia

        December 28th, 2015 at 3:32 AM

        Dear Andrea Rossi,

        The sense of my comment is that I don’t understand the sense of this comment: “My dream is a product for everybody that makes everybody make money with it. I am also studying a commercial system that will allow everybody to make money with the E-Cat.”

        In particular “everybody make money” is a mind-boggling concept for me.

        Another “anomaly” is that after a big discover and a big invention you want also to make a big product and a big commercial system… Don’t you think it’s too much for a single man? I think it’s too much even for a single big company!

        Please, explain better the sense of your comment, because it sounds very crazy even to your best committed follower like me…

        Andrea Rossi

        December 28th, 2015 at 8:20 AM

        Silvio Caggia:
        To explain I give just 2 examples:
        1- example of pruduct that has made everybody make money: the computer
        2- example of small individual entity that developed such a product and grew up: Apple
        About the particulars of what we are setting up ( F9) it is not the case to disclose them now.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        I remember in the beginning of the Rossi blog when he said that all profits produced by his invention would be going to the care for sick children world wide. I looks like his business plan has changed, I wonder why?

        • SG

          I’m pretty sure he never committed to letting go with *all* profits. As I remember, it was a portion. And how are we to know whether he has or hasn’t?

  • georgehants

    “Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was
    considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some
    orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly.
    The entire web of culture and ‘progress,’ everything on earth that is
    man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of
    some man’s refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no
    more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for
    the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde
    truly said, ‘Disobedience was man’s Original Virtue.””
    ˜Robert Anton Wilson

    • Alan DeAngelis

      The marbled institutions that set cold fusion/LENR back a quarter of a century will prey upon the understandable ignorance of the new comers to the history of this discovery by playing their pedigree cards and saying that Fleischmann and Pons were “debunked”.

      This video from the 1990s is for the new comers.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Pardon me
        …newcomers…

        • clovis ray

          Hi,Alan.
          Nice video, one should have a good correct version, of how CF came about.
          they left off just where Dr Rossi starts,publicly with the rossi effect, not cold fusion, i will even hesitate to say the word fusion,or even nuclear, because it has not been proven that it is either, Dr. rossi is the lead scientist developing an mechanism, that will be useful, and i have not heard him say that the main effect of his device the E-cat is fusion.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, this is really old (I think it’s from about 1999). Although the heat was real (obvious not a chemical reaction), it wasn’t like the amounts of heat that Rossi has. So, they could make fun of it. They never anticipated the E-Cat. So, all the “Please, May I have a cup of tea?” jokes came to an
            abrupt end when Rossi came on the scene. The E-Cat vindicated F&P. So now, the know-it-all, smug twerps who disparaged F&P realize that they are now (as President Johnson once said) “knee deep in s#!t dip”.

      • bachcole

        I am hoping that the debunking of cold fusion will debunk debunking.

        • bachcole

          I should have said that the debunking of the debunking of cold fusion will debunk debunking.

          (:->)

  • Stephen

    I wonder when Andrea Rossi talks about Measuring the EM environment if he means a static EM field or EM radiation. And if this relates directly to th DC electric current generation or is an additional side effect? I suppose even a static field could generate radiation if it is manipulated or rotated or oscillated by some internal means or external stimuli. If EM radiation is generated I wonder if it’s frequency can be tuned and modulated and maybe beamed to provide communications capability, or to be used in near field inductance of other devices or far field beamed energy transmission. Could it for example generate THz or microwave radiation or other radio wavelengths? And since EM radiation includes all wavelengths and frequencies could it be tuned to optimally generate radiation at frequencies ranging from radio to optical and even above?

    Well what ever it does generating heat and electricity is already astonishing enough.

    • clovis ray

      Stephen, HI.
      This thing seem to only work, when some part of it is pulsed, not quite sure, if it’S the power source, or an external wave being administered, but pulsing of the device could be used to produce AC in some way, but even if it is direct current, it is easily converted as you well know, just my guess.,

  • GreenWin

    Uncle Bob, your questions remind one of the Mother Goose poem asking, “How does your garden grow?”

    We understand your frustration with Rossi’s success, the Lugano Report, the investment of $60M in Industrial Heat, government funding of LENR in China, India, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Japan and even… the US. Try to grasp you inhabit a site with guidelines discouraging:

    “Comments that state openly or by implication that LENR/cold fusion/E-Cat is a fraud or hoax”

    You might find more solace with fellow skeptics elsewhere. Regardless, Happy New Year!!

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, this is really old (I think it’s from about 1999). Although the heat was real (obvious not a chemical reaction), it wasn’t like the amounts of heat that Rossi has. So, they could make fun of it. They never anticipated the E-Cat. So, all the “Please, May I have a cup of tea?” jokes came to an
    abrupt end when Rossi came on the scene. The E-Cat vindicated F&P. So now, the know-it-all, smug twerps who disparaged F&P realize that they are now (as President Johnson once said) “knee deep in s#!t dip”.

  • Ecat Time of Conclusion Test just reached the 1 month + mark. More exciting than watching the ball drop for New Years. Wonder how long we will have to wait for results to surface.

  • Axil Axil

    Silvio Caggia

    December 28th, 2015 at 3:32 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    The sense of my comment is that I don’t understand the sense of this comment: “My dream is a product for everybody that makes everybody make money with it. I am also studying a commercial system that will allow everybody to make money with the E-Cat.”

    In particular “everybody make money” is a mind-boggling concept for me.

    Another “anomaly” is that after a big discover and a big invention you want also to make a big product and a big commercial system… Don’t you think it’s too much for a single man? I think it’s too much even for a single big company!

    Please, explain better the sense of your comment, because it sounds very crazy even to your best committed follower like me…

    Andrea Rossi

    December 28th, 2015 at 8:20 AM

    Silvio Caggia:
    To explain I give just 2 examples:
    1- example of pruduct that has made everybody make money: the computer
    2- example of small individual entity that developed such a product and grew up: Apple
    About the particulars of what we are setting up ( F9) it is not the case to disclose them now.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    I remember in the beginning of the Rossi blog when he said that all profits produced by his invention would be going to the care for sick children world wide. I looks like his business plan has changed, I wonder why?

    • SG

      I’m pretty sure he never committed to letting go with *all* profits. As I remember, it was a portion. And how are we to know whether he has or hasn’t?

  • Akum:

    You can’t imagine how impatient am I, but I must be patient all the way, working to make it happen as soon as possible. Sometime you can’t foresee: for example, I studied for years how to get out from an E-Cat directly electricity ( we had traces of it), but I have not been able and for those years no progress has been done…suddenly, during a night in the plant, I got an idea that arrived unexpected, and in few seconds we got a progress that we didn’t get in years.

    Therefore, it is impossible to give an answer.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Buck

      I think Einstein’s quote is relevant:

      “The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.”

      • bachcole

        Very nice!

  • georgehants

    Your answer even if correct, which it is not as there is far more solid Evidence than lights, simply means that any competent scientist would demand more Research and investigation, which is their only job, not giving out ridiculous opinions.
    Cold Fusion is exactly the same as the above subjects, uneducated, ignorant scientists, brain-washed into denial and debunking and intellectually completed unable to see the difference between “interpretation,” opinions and Facts.
    An “interpretation” is in science something to be laughed at, only Evidence is scientifically valid and if that Evidence is not complete (temporarily) then only more Research is in order.

  • MorganMck

    To me one of the biggest near-term implications of the E-Cat-X producing electrical power directly (with “high COP”) is for the credibility of Rossi, the E-Cat and LENR in general to the larger scientific community. Much of the skepticism to date about E-Cat/LENR has revolved around the endless arguments about COP (being over unity) when input is electrical and output is heat with the issues associated with its correct measurement. With the E-Cat-X the experimental setup/measurement is quite simple (although SSM complicates things a tad) with both electrical input and output being easily measured and recorded with near universally accepted instruments, methods and 24/7 observation.

    After Rossi has had some time to develop and tune the E-Cat-X to the next stage, I would love to see a Lugano II set of tests based on E-Cat-X. Of course these would have to be of sufficient duration to rule out stored energy, but that should not take long. Of course these tests would not convert those claiming fraud/conspiracy, but they are fast becoming the lunatic fringe of skeptics anyway IMO. I would think this could bring a new level credibility and attention to Rossi/E-Cat and LENR that could only accelerate development and deployment.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      The simple way to show it’s real and functioning is to incorporate a feedback loop to the LENR reactor such that the necessary fraction of the electricity it outputs takes over the input electricity required to sustain it after it’s running.

      • MorganMck

        Exactly right; although you may need some external source for start-up purposes. I just wonder if Rossi will be motivated to allow such tests or if he thinks it will just incite competition.

  • If you can reduce heat output by removing electricity from the reactor, perhaps Rossi could design an E-Cat-X made with steel instead of alumina, which tends to crack. Isn’t steel cheaper and easier to work with than alumina? Also, with better inherent control, I would think and *hope* that scaling up the E-Cat-X to larger sizes would be easier. How much DC electrical output power would you need to make an automobile with a Prius size battery work as a functional automobile with no travel length limitation? I have more questions than opinions.

    • artefact

      I think that with the x-cat in “electricitiy mode” the scaling is easier because the heat can be managed better. I could imagine that it will be a surprise how much electricity can be generated from a relatively smal reactor. Think of Fabianis words. He is used to work with e-cats but was so enthusiastic about the e-cat x with words like “energy density”, “nothing in comparison” and “truly seen a new world”. But we will see.

      For Prius like cars if you have around 20kW and a buffer you can drive without stopping. (more KW for the Tesla). If you use the car normal it belongs on how many miles/KM you drive and how big your buffer battery is. It could then be less than the 20kW. Even 2kW could be enough if you don’t drive to far daily and have a big buffer.

      • Omega Z

        The TESLA model D I believe has an 85KWh battery.
        It would be far easier to adapt E-cats to trains & shipping before moving on to cars. There are a lot more issues to deal with. Both the technology & safety…

  • If you can reduce heat output by removing electricity from the reactor, perhaps Rossi could design an E-Cat-X made with steel instead of alumina, which tends to crack. Isn’t steel cheaper and easier to work with than alumina? Also, with better inherent control, I would think and *hope* that scaling up the E-Cat-X to larger sizes would be easier. How much DC electrical output power would you need to make an automobile with a Prius size battery work as a functional automobile with no travel length limitation? I have more questions than opinions.

    • artefact

      I think that with the x-cat in “electricitiy mode” the scaling is easier because the heat can be managed better as not so much is generated. I could imagine that it will be a surprise how much electricity can be generated from a relatively smal reactor. Think of Fabianis words. He is used to work with e-cats but was so enthusiastic about the e-cat x with words like “energy density”, “nothing in comparison” and “truly seen a new world”. But we will see I guess.

      For Toyota Leaf like cars if you have around 20kW and a buffer you can drive without stopping. I read somewhere that this is the average need (more kW for the Tesla). If you use the car normal (to work and back) it belongs on how many miles/KM you drive and how big your buffer battery is. It could then be less than the 20kW. Even 2kW could be enough if you don’t drive to far daily and have an adequate buffer.

      • Omega Z

        The TESLA model D I believe has an 85KWh battery.
        It would be far easier to adapt E-cats to trains & shipping before moving on to cars. There are a lot more issues to deal with. Both the technology & safety…

  • CambriaJohn

    I have been a true believer. However, I also understand there are lots of very smart people in the world. Now, to see another extravagant claim without building on the demonstration of previous claims gives me pause. Sure, I don’t doubt there is such a thing as “cold fusion”. However, there has been a paucity of “replications”, and even those don’t come close to power output or sustained performance. It appears Rossi is approaching the status of a deity. I think it is now time for a little reality check, even among us believers.

    • Omega Z

      Brillouin energy has achieved 650`C with COP=4.?
      Rossi is just a little farther ahead of the others.
      Everything to date just says it’s very hard to manage.

      Just because you can do something doesn’t make it a marketable product. They’ve been growing meat in a petri dish for years. It will be many more before it is on the market.

  • Allan Shura

    The 1 MW e-cat has been for sale for three years. The economics seems based on thermo electric adaptation. A plausible ROI number could only have been from an existing technology adaptation in the literature. Otherwise only the heat is lower cost than coal.

    • Mats002

      I would not say the Cat is for sale yet. A stake in the Cat business has been for sale for at least 3 years and THAT has been bought by Darden and by Woodford capital which also resell those stakes, I own one tiny part.

      We have NOT YET seen anyone bying a Cat product.

      • Jim

        Those people are misguided. In a world of terrorism and storms driven by climate change, it’s much better not to put all the eggs in one basket and have a distributed set of power sources. The only question is whether it will scale down in cost for a 10-20kW home unit.

  • Allan Shura

    The 1 MW e-cat has been for sale for three years. The economics seems based on thermo electric adaptation. A plausible ROI number could only have been from an existing technology adaptation in the literature. Otherwise only the heat is lower cost than coal.

    • Mats002

      I would not say the Cat is for sale yet. A stake in the Cat business has been for sale for at least 3 years and THAT has been bought by Darden and by Woodford capital which also resell those stakes, I own one tiny part.

      We have NOT YET seen anyone bying a Cat product.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I have an idea for a new use for the E-Cat-X I want to share.

    It is a specialty item, a compact oxygen supply for SCUBA divers and submarines or spacecraft, or anywhere really. You power electrolysis to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen can be used or disposed of, one gallon of water should produce enough oxygen for one person for an entire day. Alternatively it could power a laser to separate the carbon from the oxygen which is exhaled, and recycle the oxygen infinitely.

    Laser separation process:
    http://phys.org/news/2014-10-oxygen-molecules-carbon-dioxide.html

    • Oystein Lande

      If you mean electrolysis of sea water, you would get hydrogen and chlorine gas (not oxygen) 😉

      • HiGhGuY

        Depending on how much power we’d have to work with, this problem could be EASILY remedied with pre-existing technology. Simply add an electric water pump to force the sea water through a RO/DI filter which would result in nearly pure H2O. This H2O could then be stored in a small “tank” that also contained the elctrolyzer.
        Depending on how small the E-Cat X could be made (considering required power) it’s even conceivable that the whole apparatus could be built as a “system on a chip” architecture. Micro water pumps feeding micro RO/DI filters feeding micro elcrolyzers directly (no tank), all built into a device small and light enough to be held directly in the mouth. Think a standard SCUBA mouthpiece with 2 “red bull can” sized objects coming off either side. Alternatively it could be built into a full face mask, which you would not have to hold with your mouth, and could afford you voice communications.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I have an idea for a new use for the E-Cat-X I want to share.

    It is a specialty item, a compact oxygen supply for SCUBA divers and submarines or spacecraft, or anywhere really. You power electrolysis to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen can be used or disposed of, one gallon of water should produce enough oxygen for one person for an entire day. Alternatively it could power a laser to separate the carbon from the oxygen which is exhaled, and recycle the oxygen infinitely.

    Laser separation process:
    http://phys.org/news/2014-10-oxygen-molecules-carbon-dioxide.html

    • Oystein Lande

      If you mean electrolysis of sea water, you would get hydrogen and chlorine gas (not oxygen) 😉

      • bachcole

        Not quite. H2O being split would put out a lot of hydrogen, half as much oxygen. The NaCl would put out chlorine gas, but not a heck of a lot. But still probably enough to kill a person. SCUBA gear would need to be able to deal with the chlorine gas, otherwise the machine would be sort of useless.

        • Oystein Lande

          The problem is that oxygen does not come out as gas in this case, but is left in Solution as hydroxide ions, OH-

          • bachcole

            How come I have seen it a hundred times. You put the two electrodes in the water, turn on the DC electricity, and hydrogen comes off of one electrode and oxygen comes off the other. I can even do that in my own home. If there is salt in solution, then chlorine gas comes out with the oxygen and the sodium ion accumulate in the water.

          • Oystein Lande

            You are right, when chlorine concentration starts to get low in the Solution, then oxygen starts to come out as O2 gas. But from seawater the chlorine will never get low, so Chlorine will be the preferred reaction at the anode….. 🙂

          • bachcole

            (:->) You are either way ahead of me or way behind me. I’m going to go ahead and take a wild guess and say that you are way ahead of me, Teacher.

      • HiGhGuY

        Depending on how much power we’d have to work with, this problem could be EASILY remedied with pre-existing technology. Simply add an electric water pump to force the sea water through a RO/DI filter which would result in nearly pure H2O. This H2O could then be stored in a small “tank” that also contained the elctrolyzer.
        Depending on how small the E-Cat X could be made (considering required power) it’s even conceivable that the whole apparatus could be built as a “system on a chip” architecture. Micro water pumps feeding micro RO/DI filters feeding micro elcrolyzers directly (no tank), all built into a device small and light enough to be held directly in the mouth. Think a standard SCUBA mouthpiece with 2 “red bull can” sized objects coming off either side. Alternatively it could be built into a full face mask, which you would not have to hold with your mouth, and could afford you voice communications.

  • Oystein Lande

    The problem is that oxygen does not come out as gas in this case, but is left in Solution as hydroxide ions, OH-

  • Omega Z

    Brillouin energy has achieved 650`C with COP=4.?
    Rossi is just a little farther ahead of the others.
    Everything to date just says it’s very hard to manage.

    Just because you can do something doesn’t make it a marketable product. They’ve been growing meat in a petri dish for years. It will be many more before it is on the market.

  • Rui Germano

    This is great news. It looks like the best solution for factories and small neighbourhoods. Imagine providing a small housing block with the warm water and electricity all from a single (half)container set-up. Wonderful site. In my native country, Mozambique, we suffer from electricity shortages in some remote areas. This would be a game changer.
    Once this is out of sale I’m gonna lobby my lungs out in order to get one, or more of these babies on our rural areas.

  • Rui Germano

    This is great news. It looks like the best solution for factories and small neighbourhoods. Imagine providing a small housing block with the warm water and electricity all from a single (half)container set-up. Wonderful site. In my native country, Mozambique, we suffer from electricity shortages in some remote areas. This would be a game changer.
    Once this is out of sale I’m gonna lobby my lungs out in order to get one, or more of these babies on our rural areas.

    • bachcole

      We should not project our individualism on every culture. Some people want and like a community water source or community energy source.

      • Rui Germano

        I agree. The problem in the communities I speak is that there is no community water or power source. People need to walk for miles to get water, since the government does not have the means to service them.

      • Jim

        Those people are misguided. In a world of terrorism and storms driven by climate change, it’s much better not to put all the eggs in one basket and have a distributed set of power sources. The only question is whether it will scale down in cost for a 10-20kW home unit.

  • Oystein Lande

    You are right, when chlorine concentration starts to get low in the Solution, then oxygen starts to come out as O2 gas. But from seawater the chlorine will never get low, so Chlorine will be the preferred reaction at the anode….. 🙂

  • Rui Germano

    I agree. The problem in the communities I speak is that there is no community water or power source. People need to walk for miles to get water, since the government does not have the means to service them.