New Year’s Eve Party Thread! What Will be the Big Reveal from Rossi at Midnight (US Eastern Time)?

Andrea Rossi wrote this intriguing comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

Andrea Rossi
December 30th, 2015 at 1:36 PM
Domenico Canino:
Thank you for your trust.
As a matter of fact, the perspective of the E-Cat X is huge. We’ll return soon on this issue: the last night I had a dream: at midnight tomorrow, when the New Year will be born, which means at 00.00 a.m. of Jan 1st 2016, I will be in the plant and I will uncork the bottle of the Korbel ( a very good US champenois) to celebrate: I will be alone inside the plant in that moment, with the security guards only; immediately after that I will write here what is the E-Cat X and what I want to do of it. F9.
God bless you and all our Readers too.
A.R.

Andrea Rossi has since confirmed that he will be writing something at midnight on December 31st, so I think it’s appropriate to have a dedicated New Year’s Eve ECW PARTY THREAD! Happy New Year to everyone who visits here, and let’s hope that 2016 meets our hopes and expectations for some special happenings in the world of advanced energy technology.

It will be interesting to hear from Dr. Rossi at midnight on the E-Cat X, but I can’t imagine he’ll be giving away any key secrets on the JONP at this time.

UPDATE: Here is Rossi’s post:

Dear Readers of the JoNP:
It’s 00.00.01″ of January 1st 2016.
Update: the 1 MW E-Cat is stable and in ssm, the E-Cat X is very promising and still operating and making heat, electricity.
The E-Cat X is very close to the design of the core of the apparatus described in the US Patent, I mean the wafer. It has been engineered to resist to very high temperatures. The electricity exits directly from the wafer.
As I said , several nights ago I had a dream. The E-Cat X had been produced in billions pieces, each of them assembled with others in various combinations to make public lamps: a town was totally illuminated by the E-Cat X and from every lamp a network of pipes and of wires was able to distribute heat and electricity to the houses.
In that town there were about 1 million lamps each of them of 500 watts, consuming about 50 watts; consequently, there were 450 MWh/h produced, of which about half were turned into heat distributed to the houses through a network of well insulated pipes, running inderground, like optic fibers, the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households. The cost of the E-Cat X was around 50 $/kW of power, due to the production of billions of pieces per year in all the world, with tens of thousands of jobs. Less taxes were paid by the people, due to the saves derived from low pollution and low energy cost for public services. Millions of persons were also earning money selling E-Cats and every owner of E-Cats was saving money in utilities ( electricity, heat, light).
Then I heard the alarm clock: it was time to return to the factory, to make true the dream. F9.
Happy new year, I love you all.
I am drinking my cup of Korbel champagne, then i have to return to the gauges of the plant. She is good, tonight.
Again, Happy 2016, May God bless you all,
Andrea

  • NT

    I will certainly be watching his blog tomorrow evening right after midnight Florida time which will be 10:00 pm here in Montana.

    • bachcole

      And Colorado Springs. That isn’t so bad. I can do that.

  • Gerard McEk

    It will be a bit late for me :-(, but I will read it the morning after ;-))

    • Mats002

      I’m in no hurry, I’ll read it next year.

    • TomR

      It will be 11:00 pm here in Wisconsin, I will be watching and probably making my wife unhappy.

  • Gerard McEk

    It will be a bit late for me :-(, but I will read it the morning after ;-))

    • Mats002

      I’m in no hurry, I’ll read it next year.

    • TomR

      It will be 11:00 pm here in Wisconsin, I will be watching and probably making my wife unhappy.

  • LilyLover

    I’m sure he’ll tell us something very good.
    But somehow I have an inkling that he’ll not make any big reveals to media before 25th March.
    I think he’ll strive to make 25th March as a victory-lap day.
    We shall see.

    • Considering the entertainment is free, we are certainly getting more than our money’s worth with these dramatic twists and turns — and now a ‘cliffhanger’ no less. I just hope we see something a little more substantial than drama some time in early 2016.

  • Stephen

    I guess it will be early January the 1st here in Europe. If I can’t stay awake then for sure it will be the first thing I look at when i wake up 🙂 what ever happens 2016 sure looks like it could be a year to remember and if it is more than a dream what a great way to start it!

    I hope Andrea Rossi is able to take some moments to savour and enjoy that very good bottle of Korbel and reflect on on what he has achieved and how far this amazing work has come.

    • artefact

      06:00 am for GMT+1 (Berlin Paris Stockholm)

      • Stephen

        Thanks artefact… I was wondering 😉

    • damn_right _man

      Unfortunately this will be a year to remember. I promised myself to do something in 2016. After it happened, at first glance this won’t look as if it is something good. But as soon all details and truths will be revealed on the time afterwards, I hope, the world will understand what it is all about. Happy new Year to all of You. (BTW: NO, I am not referring to any terror-shit).

      • Stephen

        Hi damn_right_man. They do say the new year is a time for new resolutions and I hope for positive things. What ever yours is I hope it brings some good and does not bring hurt or difficulty to others or yourself. I don’t know if it helps but I found that if allowed to sometimes difficult resolutions can sometimes resolve them selves, I know it is not always the case though. I also wish you a 2016 that brings a good and happier resolution.

  • Billy Jackson

    well .. what ever it is he plans to post.. we know this coming from Rossi…

    it could be positive or negative 🙂

    • bachcole

      COL (chuckle out loud)

    • clovis ray

      Hi, Bill.
      You know if you just read f9 as( if things go well) it fits in fine, but F9 is more short.
      with an okie accent y’all.–COL

    • Ryan
  • Bob K

    I wonder why on the rossilivecat blog , AR’s reply to Domenico Canino was brief leaving out all the juicy dream details.

    • Frank Acland

      Rossi probably edited the comment after he first posted it. Rossilivecat copies the comments are they first come in, but doesn’t reflect any subsequent edits — which Rossi sometimes makes.

      • artefact

        I saw him editing the comment two times. Last time he added “with the security guards only” to “I will be alone inside the plant in that moment” 🙂

        • damn_right _man

          There we have it, intriguing, intriguing…. perhaps he wanted to add this, so that no one can send the men in black to get rid of him ? Perhaps he added that, to frighten any private stalker ? Perhaps he added that to strengthen, how important this is ? Perhaps nothing of his post is real ?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    He’ll need the cat intro.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVCxJ1aT24A

    • clovis ray

      Good one, Alan, The roar that was heard around the world. SMILE.

  • ecatworld

    Rossi probably edited the comment after he first posted it. Rossilivecat copies the comments are they first come in, but doesn’t reflect any subsequent edits — which Rossi sometimes makes.

    • artefact

      I saw him editing the comment two times. Last time he added “with the security guards only” to “I will be alone inside the plant in that moment” 🙂

  • I hope his dreams come true. 😉

  • bachcole

    I confess that this is the first time that I felt that staying up on New Year’s Eve had any value.

  • Bob

    My New Years’s wish is that Rossi will make the New Year’s announcement….with Tom Darden making a joint statement. Rossi is really pushing Leonardo Corp. lately and while I am not an expert in searching this site, I cannot find one reference he has made of IH or Darden for many months.
    .
    Please let the announcement include something positive about IH / Darden. How nice if Rossi did not have to spend New Year’s all alone, but in celebration with Darden sharing a toast.
    .
    I am unsure about understanding his statement. Is he stating that he is dreamed that he will be all alone on New Year’s eve or that he in fact will be? Rossi speaks English well for a second language, but sometimes I misunderstand his wording.
    .
    Evening has fallen and I continue to wait for something of substance…..

  • Bob

    My New Years’s wish is that Rossi will make the New Year’s announcement….with Tom Darden making a joint statement. Rossi is really pushing Leonardo Corp. lately and while I am not an expert in searching this site, I cannot find one reference he has made of IH or Darden for many months.
    .
    Please let the announcement include something positive about IH / Darden. How nice if Rossi did not have to spend New Year’s all alone, but in celebration with Darden sharing a toast.
    .
    I am unsure about understanding his statement. Is he stating that he is dreamed that he will be all alone on New Year’s eve or that he in fact will be? Rossi speaks English well for a second language, but sometimes I misunderstand his wording.
    .
    Evening has fallen and I continue to wait for something of substance…..

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys, I too will celebrate, with a nice cold Budwiser, the okie Champlain , i wouldn’t miss it for the world, I will raise my glass with you Andrea in celebration of your gift to the world, and i’m sure she will be very happy, to breath more cleanly and clearly, to say nothing about us humans.

  • Jonnyb

    We also share this Dream. A bit concerned that he is all on his own, hope the others have not deserted him?

    • Frank Acland

      Probably he wants time on his own to do secret stuff!

      • Jonnyb

        I hope so. From a business point of view it is always good to have more than one person who know and understands the cutting edge of your product development. He needs a new Foccardi.

  • Ophelia Rump

    It sounds to me like Dottore Rossi is following his dream.

    He will act out this dream he had to usher in the new year.

  • Ophelia Rump

    It sounds to me like Dottore Rossi is following his dream.

    He will act out this dream he had to usher in the new year.

  • Bob Greenyer

    My hope would be a replicators guide book to the E-CatX, my fear would be it is the next big future

    • Bob

      A guide would indeed by great, but that is not going to happen. Rossi’s own post said that no one else has been allowed to see the electrical production much less will he share instructions. He stated he would be alone working on this, so I am sure not guide will be coming.
      .
      These recent posts by Rossi are more strange that usual. Since I do not know what to make of them, all I can do is wait…….and see what he posts. Anything else I could say would be completely unfounded…. F9
      .
      I will wait (as I have been since 2011 and each day afterward) for significant information. Perhaps tomorrow will bring it. Perhaps not.
      .
      So therefore as normal…. I continue to wait.

      • deleo77

        Just to take this a step further, on Vortex it was mentioned that if Rossi has created a device that he describes with the E-Cat X (a very high COP, incredibly efficient, reliable, and it has the ability to produce both heat and electricity directly at the same time) that technology would be considered by the U.S. Government as too powerful to be in one person’s hands. It would be similar to saying a single person could have complete ownership over electricity or the Internet. But that person or company does have the right to earn licensing fees for everyone to use that technology for their own purpose.

        Rossi has said that the E-Cat X is somewhat covered by the existing patent that he has already received. Rossi could eventually get into a patent battle with Piantelli or Mills, but if Rossi can get the E-Cat X out of the gate first, it could give him a leg up on them with those battles.

        Of course I say this out of our own interest, but it would be great to actually see the underlying tech get put out into the wild. Rossi could release the E-Cat X design to anyone who signed a licensing fee should their device be put to commercial use. If the device is small and widely distributed, then Rossi could make more money than he would ever need just receiving a small licensing fee for having the tech in millions of final products. He could demonstrate it now and explain it, and then turn it over to outside engineers and companies to work with.

        I think this is the reason Rossi is not mentioning IH around the E-Cat X. IH licensed the technology underlying the E-Cat. But the E-Cat is a large industrial grade plant. The E-Cat X is a small unit that could potentially even be incorporated into a jet engine. I think Rossi will say tomorrow night that if the on-going E-Cat X test is considered a success when it wraps up in 2016 then he will enter into new single purpose licensing deals with anyone who wants to get started on developing products around it.

        • bachcole

          But the US government has to know about it and believe it. I barely believe it. So, until further developments, all of your concerns are groundless.

          • US_Citizen71

            They know about it, SPAWAR and NAVSEA are part of the government, what they publicly admit to is another story. LENR and other energy dense technologies have too much military potential to ignore. But that doesn’t mean that they will tell you and I what they know and when they first knew it. ; )

          • bachcole

            “They” are millions of people do not all believe the same things. To think that they are a monolithic group who are all on the same page fails to understand human beings and human beings in groups. Even in my very small group of 5 people called my family, most do not believe in Meher Baba, most merely tolerate me about cold fusion, and not all are yet on board with molecular hydrogen.

          • US_Citizen71

            Military program heads don’t care about how or why something works only that it does. When something with great military value is discovered, no matter how bizarre or strange it may seem, those controlling the purse strings and the programs in general only care if it can be developed it something they can use. If the brass truly wanted the LENR programs to go away they would have gone away. ‘Have Blue’ comes to mind it was the predecessor to the stealth fighter program. Initial goals were to reduce radar cross section. When the engineers succeeded wonderfully, it went very black. Do you think the guy making the call understood the physics involved? The first prototype flew in December of 1977, when did you first hear about the US Stealth fighter?

        • Gerard McEk

          I hope you are right Deleo77 and I would think that is the best way for an extreme fast market penetration. Until now AR wanted to do everything himself, which would lead to the oposite. Maybe he is able to just fabricate the Ecats on demand in a huge plant, though.

        • Omega Z

          “that technology would be considered by the U.S. Government as too powerful to be in one person’s hands.”

          I don’t see that.
          It would also be a dangerous path to take. It would be like the Government saying anything they deem to much for one person to own or control could be taken from you. That would be the end of all creative cutting edge research. Create a simple pill that cures all cancers with a single dose. Best just take it to your grave, because there are people who will take it away from you.
          ———————————————————
          I would imagine Rossi will follow an Intel inside marketing plan in time.
          However, before you can do that, you need to know that it will perform.
          Imagine building a computer that you install an Intel chip, but the chip didn’t work in the real world.

          Does anyone think Rossi is going to build E-cat Jet engines to sell? I mean, he’s studying them right. Well, before selling E-cats to Jet engine manufacturers, you need to know it’s actually feasible and have proof.

      • damn_right _man

        And that is it, what reduces believes in everything, he claims. Excess heat is NOT the aim to reduce the CO2 emissions, IT IS GENERATION OF clean energy, which he “tadaaaa” finally, at the end of this year” seemed to achieve (wow, that quickly, after detecting it” ??????) , again, ALONE, with no witnesses or other people of his team being involved until now ? It is really going more and more “hoaxary”

    • Job001

      Better by far, that the E-CatX is IH marketed than taken over and dominated or shelved by monopoly utilities.

      It is better to overestimate what greed will do than underestimate it.

      Modern greed and corrupt money accepts no blame and knows no limit. Big money will likely find a way to buy delay i.e. as drug companies routinely do for generics.

      Example, wikipedia still posts ancient nonsense that cold fusion is a pathological science, a pariah field, ignoring thousands of recent publications showing high COP, nuclear ash, and replications. Wikipedia biased authors are apparently willfully ignorant of the financial bias of mainline HF research(who receive and strongly defend on average at least 30(my est.) times CF funding.)

  • Alain Samoun

    If somebody can give me the address of his lab,I will send him a real bottle of champ,not this bublee california copy…

    • William D. Fleming

      Tres drole:-(

    • MasterBlaster7

      I agree. But, I think he wants it to be American sparkling wine..for symbolic reasons.

  • Maybe Rossi plans to make bunch of them and put them in the back of a truck propelled by a electric motor on loan from Tesla. It would make a great experiment to drive from New York to LA and back without refueling. If he really does have electricity with a very good COP, putting together such a demo should be easy.

  • Maybe Rossi plans to make bunch of them and put them in the back of a truck propelled by a electric motor on loan from Tesla. It would make a great experiment to drive from New York to LA and back without refueling. If he really does have electricity with a very good COP, putting together such a demo should be easy.

  • LuFong

    Let’s hope Rossi finishes the bottle before writing! My guess is that Rossi will lay out his vision for the E-Cat X product and some inkling of his commercial revolution idea. At best maybe a picture? Rossi has been very excited about the E-Cat X and has disclosed about it very quickly. Regardless, I will definitely check in.

    Happy 2016 everyone!

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I think it will take some time before people fully understand the significance of what is about to take place. People who haven’t been following the LENR story will probably think it is some new kind of lithium battery.
    It’s as significant to our species as this was 400,000 years ago. .
    http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Control-of-fire-by-early-humans.jpg?itok=YUFsNzB7

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yes, life expectancy was lower prier to the introduction of the Twinkie.

      • Brokeeper

        We were part of the food chain then.

    • MasterBlaster7

      Yes, abstract expressionistic cave paintings and proto-tighty whities were the black swan events of the stone age. I concur.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Oh.

        Actually, I was referring to the prototype of the over unity n-machine they were constructing.

        • MasterBlaster7

          I thought they were starting to build a ship in a bottle?

          • ecatworld

            December 31st, 2015 at 2:48 PM

            Dear Andrea,
            I hope you are having a delightful New Year’s Eve in the plant. We are having a party at E-Cat World, please feel free to drop in and join us as we look forward to 2016!
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/30/big-reveal-from-rossi-at-midnight-new-years-eve/

            Best wishes to you and your team — and thanks for keeping us all informed.

            Frank Acland

            Andrea Rossi

            December 31st, 2015 at 3:37 PM
            Frank Acland:
            Best wishes to all the Friends of E-Catworld . I’m already there, don’t you see me?
            A.R.

          • ecatworld

            Glad you are with us, Andrea!

          • artefact

            yayyy!

            (When I used the internet for the first time I wondered where the others are who visite the same site at the same time 🙂 )

          • artefact

            00:48 here. Happy new year to you all. You are great. Thank you.
            Alarm Clock set to 05:50 just for the fun of it 🙂

          • Observer

            I predict that, in the future, when someone has a great idea, cartoonists will draw a picture of an E-Cat X above their head!

          • bachcole

            Nice.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Let’s face it – an LED looks stupid.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I think it will take some time before people fully understand the significance of what is about to take place. People who haven’t been following the LENR story will probably think it is some new kind of lithium battery.
    It’s as significant to our species as this was 400,000 years ago. .
    http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Control-of-fire-by-early-humans.jpg?itok=YUFsNzB7

      • bachcole

        Obviously modern living has contributed greatly to health and longevity. But we could do better, within the context of modern living. You are welcome to ignore that and become more and more miserable in your old age. I don’t really care.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yes, life expectancy was lower prier to the introduction of the Twinkie.

      • Brokeeper

        We were part of the food chain then.

    • MasterBlaster7

      Yes, abstract expressionistic cave paintings and proto-tighty whities were the black swan events of the stone age. I concur.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Oh.

        Actually, I was referring to the prototype of the over unity n-machine they were constructing.

        • MasterBlaster7

          I thought they were starting to build a ship in a bottle?

  • Ron Kita

    Krobel….champaign near Sebastopol,Califonia..Okkk…been there many times. My hope is “commercial conformation”…I have “no need to know”..what his “magic is”. Per aspera…ada astra, Ron Kita, Chiralex..Pennsylvania.

  • PAUL D KENDALL

    FROM ANCHORAGE ALASKA,
    THANK YOU ALL, AND ESPECIALLY
    MR ROSSI, HIS LOVED ONES AND HIS KINDRED SPRIT ASSOCIATES.
    HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES
    — WAITNG FOR 2016 “a transition, transformation, evolution, or,
    “a METAMORPHOSIS Time ! ”
    pauldkendall@gmail.com
    quantumreactors@gmail.com
    also.. Thank You Frank !

  • damn_right _man

    Really intriguing. Again he will be ALONE ( and this is supposedly said by him in 80% of his statements ). Which timezone does he mean, when he referrs to 00:00:00 of the 1st Jan, 2016 ?
    And why does he drink US champaigne, if he is an italian, where he surely could get much better stuff, or a french/swiss one ? He will not be able to write anything down to paper, if HE WILL DRINK THE BOTTLE ALONE. And I assume, this will be his next reply, for having nothing written down… let’s see, if I am right. Let’s all KEEP an eye on this… ok ?

  • MasterBlaster7

    Andrea is going to reveal that the e-cat x also bends time and space. So, we can build our warp drive, yo!

    • Gerard McEk

      I hope he does not bend it so much that the time stops, it will be New Year forever…. ;-0

  • MasterBlaster7

    Andrea is going to reveal that the e-cat x also bends time and space. So, we can build our warp drive, yo!

    • damn_right _man

      You are right. More and more I start getting really sceptic about him.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Oh that wasn’t sarcasm…I really think the damn thing might be able to bend time and space;haha

    • Gerard McEk

      I hope he does not bend it so much that the time stops, it will be New Year forever…. ;-0

  • Phil

    He could just write “E Cat X is the New Fire. Happy New Year !”

  • LindbergofSwed

    Imagine the joy and relief Rossi felt when he saw his hard work finally came to electric production with high COP after all this years with incredibly long working hours. He must have forsaking so much for this. His idea in the middle of the night inside the container and then to see its really working must have been one of human inventions biggest moments in the history

    • georgehants

      “I believe in intuition and inspiration.
      Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited,
      whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress,
      giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in
      scientific research.”
      Einstein

      • bachcole

        This should be the end of the skeptopathic attitude, but it won’t be because their anal retentive attitude is the result of psychological problems.

  • georgehants

    Thanks for the Happy New Year Frank, same back to you and all, with thanks again for giving a Wonderful Website on a Wonderful subject to keep me interested in my old age.
    Just a little thought for those Worldwide that will not be having a good New Year, with the Hope that our Mr. Rossi’s dream shows, not necessarily tonight but soon the possibility to change millions of lives for the better.

  • Too much enthusiasm here, as allways Rossi announces an announcement….

    At the end it’s just a disappointing note or something else.

    What I want to say: When I learned one thing in all the time I followed the LENR story, then it is: Don’t expect too much! There is allways too much wishful thinking and over interpretation in every claim made by Rossi.

    Anyway: happy new year to all!

    • artefact

      I expect nothing more than some metadata about the x-cat and inspiration on how the future may look like (F9). The info can give us a better insight what Rossi is doing/planing and lets us take part in his journey a little more. Isn’t that one thing that makes the e-cat story so fascinating? Thats enough to make me keen on reading his post.
      Really relevant in the sense of changing this world is only a device on the market (F9)
      “Too much enthusiasm”: Wait until something gets on the market (F9) to see what real enthusiasm is 🙂
      Have I mentioned F9?

      • If a working LENR reactor is really on the market (== buyable for everyone with the necessary poket money), then the enthusiasm is for sure appropriate.

        But until that, we should keep calm 🙂

  • FC

    Considering:
    1. That Dr. Rossi also said a few days ago that he was working on a patent application to cover the new elements of the ECat X,
    2. That such patent application would soon be ready for submission, and
    3. That submitted patent applications are public documents,
    He may just just publish that document in the JONP blog after submitting it to the USPO today.

  • kasom

    He only said, he had a DREAM……………..

    • artefact

      He also said to Janne:
      “I will do my best to make it worth your Bollinger.”

      And now (Steven N. Karels / Rossi):
      “Are you saying that you will post on JONP both some level of a description of what Ecat-X is and your vision for its usage/goals?”
      AR: yes

      • bachcole

        I hope that this ends the speculation. Too much speculation bores me. (:->)

    • Many creative people tap into the big field when they dream. Paul McCartney dreamt of the music to “Yesterday”. Singer, when working on his sewing machine, couldn’t make it work because he had the hole in the needle at the traditional base end. He went to bed and dreamt of a long line of knights on horseback bearing lances. All the lances had holes in the tips. The rest is Singer Sewing Machine history.

  • akupaku

    I have been getting more skeptical during the last months about Rossi’s approach to E-Cat development. He is taking too much on himself and nobody else probably knows what he is doing. There are strong oil and other powers that would benefit trillions if E-Cat development is delayed for a few years. They don’t want anybody to rock the profitable boat they are steering. They would not hesitate to send a hit team to terminate Rossi and explode the 1 MW reactor to smithereens. It has been done before and could be done again.

    USA has reportedly over 4 or 5 thousand patents that have been classified secret because of national security. In many cases I suspect that the only reason to keep them secret is to protect powerful commercial and political interests. Even some three letter government agency might regard E-Cat and Rossi as too disruptive to let him continue and take him out. I have no illusions about the capabilities of such agencies, they are completely ruthless.

    I believe that the Rossi effect is real and he is really into something important but firstly I doubt his general approach to its development is correct or safe for himself or his secrets and secondly I don’t believe that the Powers That Be will allow him to disrupt the status quo. I certainly hope that the security guards he talks about are properly armed and prepared for such eventualities that I speak of. And I certainly hope that Rossi is not going out travelling unprotected. Even whole civilian airplanes can be taken out in an “accident”.

    Happy New Year to everybody and let’s hope I am seeing things too pessimistic.

    • f sedei

      You are correct being skeptical concerning government intervention. But, Rossi is experienced dealing with corrupt government interference It is highly unlikely he is really working alone and there are not other confidants of his with E-Cat secrets. Thus, his E-Cat X entrusted with Leonardo Corp in another country. Also, he admits that a US Government scientist knowledgeable of jet engine design is advising him. Thus, to me, there leaves little doubt the military does not already have major intelligence on the E-Cat.

    • Alberonn

      On the contrary akupaku, I think your fears are well funded… These three letter US-goverment agencies have a reputation to even take out large buildings including the lives of thousands of their own citizens as collateral damage if it so suits their purpose. Rossi is very vulnarable now. I must say I am happily surprised that Rossi made it alive so far.
      The world really needs this technology in as many heads as possible, spread over as many countries over the WHOLE world as soon as possible… We need a theory and unlimited replications. I pray (even as a atheist) that Rossi will really enjoy his bottle of Korbel this evening and another NEXT YEAR….

  • akupaku

    I have been getting more skeptical during the last months about Rossi’s approach to E-Cat development. He is taking too much on himself and nobody else probably knows what he is doing. There are strong oil and other powers that would benefit trillions if E-Cat development is delayed for a few years. They don’t want anybody to rock the profitable boat they are steering. They would not hesitate to send a hit team to terminate Rossi and explode the 1 MW reactor to smithereens. It has been done before and could be done again.

    USA has reportedly over 4 or 5 thousand patents that have been classified secret because of national security. In many cases I suspect that the only reason to keep them secret is to protect powerful commercial and political interests. Even some three letter government agency might regard E-Cat and Rossi as too disruptive to let him continue and take him out. I have no illusions about the capabilities of such agencies, they are completely ruthless.

    I believe that the Rossi effect is real and he is really into something important but firstly I doubt his general approach to its development is correct or safe for himself or his secrets and secondly I don’t believe that the Powers That Be will allow him to disrupt the status quo. I certainly hope that the security guards he talks about are properly armed and prepared for such eventualities that I speak of. And I certainly hope that Rossi is not going out travelling unprotected. Even whole civilian airplanes can be taken out in an “accident”.

    Happy New Year to everybody and let’s hope I am seeing things too pessimistic.

    • f sedei

      You are correct being skeptical concerning government intervention. But, Rossi is experienced dealing with corrupt government interference It is highly unlikely he is really working alone and there are not other confidants of his with E-Cat secrets. Thus, his E-Cat X entrusted with Leonardo Corp in another country. Also, he admits that a US Government scientist knowledgeable of jet engine design is advising him. Thus, to me, there leaves little doubt the military does not already have major intelligence on the E-Cat.

    • Alberonn

      On the contrary akupaku, I think your fears are well funded… These three letter US-goverment agencies have a reputation to even take out large buildings including the lives of thousands of their own citizens as collateral damage if it so suits their purpose. There are, as you say, trillions at stake and Rossi is very vulnarable now, especially since his relationship with Darden/IH seems fragile now, to say the least. I must say I am happily surprised that Rossi made it alive so far.
      The world really needs this technology in as many heads as possible, spread over as many countries over the WHOLE world as soon as possible… We need a theory and unlimited replications. I pray (even as a atheist) that Rossi will really enjoy his bottle of Korbel this evening and another NEXT YEAR, in a years time, that is…

  • Ivan Idso

    Happy New Age!

    • Mats002

      Happy new year to you and all! I wait to call it a new age, but hope to know for certain this coming year.

  • ajb

    I’m hoping that he will do what ARM has done in chips. They licence to everyone without discrimination and take a cut off the final selling price of the chip, so low that even the largest customers like Apple or Samsung have no interest in using a different architecture. Every customer can add value in whatever way they want but they get some very valuable foundation intellectual property and compatibility. They sold 3.8 billion units last quarter, and as every device needs power there’s no reason why the EcatX couldn’t sell a similar quantity. ARM makes exactly zero CPUs itself and leaves all the capital intensive stuff to its customers. The chips span complex datacenter applications firm to extremely simple throw away devices. Similarly the EcatX could in time serve large power stations, all transport modes, homes etc. down to tiny watch sized batteries or even smaller. The customers do the actual engineering but there would be a few standard cores to choose from and build on.

  • ajb

    I’m hoping that he will do what ARM has done in chips. They licence to everyone without discrimination and take a cut off the final selling price of the chip, so low that even the largest customers like Apple or Samsung have no interest in using a different architecture. Every customer can add value in whatever way they want but they get some very valuable foundation intellectual property and compatibility. They sold 3.8 billion units last quarter, and as every device needs power there’s no reason why the EcatX couldn’t sell a similar quantity. ARM makes exactly zero CPUs itself and leaves all the capital intensive stuff to its customers. The chips span complex datacenter applications firm to extremely simple throw away devices. Similarly the EcatX could in time serve large power stations, all transport modes, homes etc. down to tiny watch sized batteries or even smaller. The customers do the actual engineering but there would be a few standard cores to choose from and build on.

  • Frank Acland

    Steven Karels: Are you saying that you will post on JONP both some level of a description of what Ecat-X is and your vision for its usage/goals?

    Andrea Rossi

    December 31st, 2015 at 8:21 AM

    Steven N. Karels:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • I propose a toast to Cold Fusion at 12.00.

    • artefact

      Which timezone? 🙂

      • Giuliano Bettini

        It seems to me …. Rossi is posting on the JoNP at the US Eastern Time.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Oh that wasn’t sarcasm…I really think the damn thing might be able to bend time and space;haha

        • Oystein Lande

          So Rossi taps electricity directly from the core wafer.

          And here is what’s happening :

          1. We know from other research that LENR may produce electromagnetic alternating fields.
          2. The steel layers where introduced in the Wafers for efficient heat transfer from core (according to patent)
          3. But steel also conducts electricity, so the LENR wafer layer will induce el. currents in the steel layers (from point 1)
          4. Rossi knowing about LENR producing electromagnetic fields connected wires to the various steel layers and hooked up an oscilloscope to analyse If something interesting was going on.
          5. Rossi then noticed that the steel layers have HF AC voltage between each layer.
          6. Rossi hooked up fast acting diodes and is able to collect rectified DC currents from the HF AC fields from the steel layers. The DC currents will have varying DC voltage, but this may be adjusted to specific DC voltage with the right elctronics.

          Anyhow: this is my hypothesis, and I’m pretty confident I’m right 🙂 , that is If Rossi is not pulling a huge practical joke 😉

          • Frederic Maillard

            Oystein,
            Rossi said the non X e-cat can not directly produce electricity.
            Does your interesting explanation still stand ?
            FM

          • Agaricus

            The E-Cat X is very close to the design of the core of the apparatus described in the US Patent, I mean the wafer. It has been engineered to resist to very high temperatures. The electricity exits directly from the wafer.” A. Rossi

          • Frederic Maillard

            Right.
            I had in mind Rossi’s reply to this question :
            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=36#comment-1143886
            FM

          • Oystein Lande

            Well, the non x-cat has the same Wafers that x-cat has, so he probably just mean that the non x-cat is not mechanically constructed to extract electricity. The steel layers need some electrical connections and separate wires from each steel layer and out of the cat…. So the “old” cat needs some reconstruction to extract electricity = x-cat. 😉

            …..If my hypothesis is correct 😉

          • US_Citizen71
          • GreenWin

            On January 13, 1905 that paragon of consensus wisdom, Scientific American forever embarrassed itself with its fussy Yugoism titled: “The Wright Aeroplane and its Fabled Performance.” http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors/i/Wrights/library/WrightSiAm1.html

            A year later the magazine was forced to print an about-face.

      • Gerald

        I’ll join and drink a wiskey. Drink some old fire on the new fire year.

  • I propose a toast to Cold Fusion at 12.00.

    • artefact

      Which timezone? 🙂
      Edit: I see you are refering to the same time like in the topic.

      • Giuliano Bettini

        It seems to me …. Rossi is posting on the JoNP at the US Eastern Time.

      • Gerald

        I’ll join and drink a wiskey. Drink some old fire on the new fire year.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Could it be that Rossi is bound by an NDA that expires in 01-01-2016? If so, this New Year’s Eve party might indeed become interesting.

    • Ged

      That is oddly logical!

      • bachcole

        I agree. This is the kind of speculation that will keep me up until 12:01 A.M. Eastern Time.

        • hempenearth

          It’s past 10am on 1 Jan here. This time zone is a test of patience.

        • bachcole

          I’ve waited 10 minutes for my date, and he didn’t show. I guess I’ll go back to Scrabble.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Could it be that Rossi is bound by an NDA that expires in 01-01-2016? If so, this New Year’s Eve party might indeed become interesting.

    • Ged

      That is oddly logical!

      • bachcole

        I agree. This is the kind of speculation that will keep me up until 12:01 A.M. Eastern Time.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “If Italian inventor Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion machine, called the E-Cat, really works, then the world’s energy problems are all but solved.”
    -Natalie Wolchover

    All Natalie has to do now is delete everything after the first sentience of her article from 2012 and repost it.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46342612/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/fraud-claims-over-e-cat-cold-fusion-machine-heating/#.VoVSwU9KXIs

    • I believe that Natalie Wolchover is a part of that organized pseudoskeptic movement, so you should not believe a word that she says, about anything, unless and until you can get other information verifying what she says.

    • ecatworld

      AR has had time to file a patent application on the E-Cat X, and said he started work on the application immediately following the discovery that led to direct electrical production. If the application is now safely filed, maybe he feels comfortable sharing the information in it.

      • Bob

        I am not a patent attorney by no means… so my input is admittedly from little experience.
        However, if he discovered this on Dec. 25, a Friday, it is very unlikely that he has had a reasonable patent application drawn up, reviewed by the patent attorneys and filed before today. Patent reviews always have multiple markups and changes made by the attorneys.
        You have to send them the draft, the review accordingly to their schedule, send back the requested clarifications, revisions and edits. Then once you make them that process starts over again. Normally three of four times..
        .
        Not impossible, but unlikely to happen this quickly. And this assumes that the patent application was from the discovery he stated happened on Dec. 25th. Previous work may be applicable, but it sounded as this was a totally new revelation.
        .
        I await the New Years ….. and wait for significant news!

        • Omega Z

          Rossi merely needs to be real careful of what he posts.
          With revisions in the patent laws in recent years, publishing certain details prior to filing a patent can have a very negative effect on that patent.

          Thus, don’t expect much in details.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “If Italian inventor Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion machine, called the E-Cat, really works, then the world’s energy problems are all but solved.”
    -Natalie Wolchover

    All Natalie has to do now is delete everything after the first sentience of her article from 2012 and repost it.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46342612/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/fraud-claims-over-e-cat-cold-fusion-machine-heating/#.VoVSwU9KXIs

    • I believe that Natalie Wolchover is a part of that organized pseudoskeptic movement, so you should not believe a word that she says, about anything, unless and until you can get other information verifying what she says.

  • e-dog

    Happy New Year to everyone!

    Thanks for all your contributions, especially to Frank for running a top quality, very informative site!

    All bodily parts are crossed in hope of a super special reveal at midnight tonight (EST?) by Andrea Rossi, I am positive (but it could be negative) that he knows we need the e-cat, the planet needs the e-cat, our kids and the future need the e-cat as soon as possible.

    Let this be the year everything changes for the better!

    I will raise a glass to the future, regardless!
    Cheers everyone!!

  • Brokeeper

    He’ll announce E-CatX is transmutting gold dust. “Making money for all”. 🙂
    Happy New Year!

    • bachcole

      That would be very inflationary. Gold would lose all value other than what it could be used for, like electrical connections. Yeah, I know that you were kidding. I think that his saying that the E-Cat X can also produce electricity is about as much value added as anyone could expect.

      • Gerald

        Platinum made from tungsten, nickel little more important. Look in Europe where the reserves and mining is.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Mitsubishi can make platinum, Pt. Is that good enough?
      http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Iwamura-transmutation-2.jpg

      • US_Citizen71

        Osmium might be an even more important byproduct as it is one of the rarest elements in the earth’s crust and might make a great replacement for nickel in LENR reactors due to its higher melting point, hydrogen adsorption ability and catalytic nature.

  • Axil Axil

    The E-Cat-X might be Rossi’s own IP and not controlled by IH through NDA, maybe Rossi can say whatever he wants to about the E-Cat-X as long as there is no pre disclosure to invalidate the patent. He had to protect his E-Cat-C IP fast so that people could be let close to it. Maybe looking at it could reveal important design details about it, But maybe the patents have been filed so he might be able to reveal something. Has anybody checked for a new Rossi patent application?

  • Axil Axil

    The E-Cat-X might be Rossi’s own IP and not controlled by IH through NDA, maybe Rossi can say whatever he wants to about the E-Cat-X as long as there is no pre disclosure to invalidate the patent. He had to protect his E-Cat-C IP fast so that people could be let close to it. Maybe looking at it could reveal important design details about it, But maybe the patents have been filed so he might be able to reveal something. Has anybody checked for a new Rossi patent application?

    Rossi seems to be so proud of the E-Cat X that it must be difficult to not share his excitement about it. What parent would want to keep the beautiful face of a newborn covered away from the world for too long.

  • bachcole

    That would be very inflationary. Gold would lose all value other than what it could be used for, like electrical connections. Yeah, I know that you were kidding. I think that his saying that the E-Cat X can also produce electricity is about as much value added as anyone could expect.

    • Gerald

      Platinum made from tungsten, nickel little more important. Look in Europe where the reserves and mining is.

  • Axil Axil

    Speculation on how the E-Cat X works.

    The E-Cat-X might works as a Hot cathode. Photons produce hot electrons on the surface of the alumina that are emitted from the surface. If a anode is placed on the outside of the cathode to capture the emitted electrons, then this will setup a current flow between the alumina and the wire grid acting as a anode that surrounds the alumina.

    Alumina is a well known thermionic emitter.

    The steel clad core must produce particle emissions (meson) that set up a LENR reaction in the alumina where the alumina gets hotter than the core. Rossi may have seen the heater wire shadow in the Lugano test which shows that the alumina was hotter then the heater wire which means that the alumina is the site where the LENR reaction is taking place.

    • Brokeeper

      So, your saying it may be acting like an old time vacume tube?

      • Axil Axil

        Alumina is a proton conductor so I might have the polarity of the current flow wrong. The current might flow between the negative grid to the positive alumina.

        • Brokeeper

          Then that would be a vacuum tube principle, if the core were acting as the negative cathode and the alumina the anode. Perhaps with a grid between for flow control.

          • US_Citizen71

            Everything old is new again! : )

          • Paul Smith

            In a vacuum electron tube, the cathode is heated by the filament and emits electrons which are captured by the anode (at positive potential).

            Between the two there can be one or more grids which allow to regulate that flow of electrons.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi must have the current collection stuff on the outside of the alumina because he does not want anyone to see what he is doing. If the current collector was on the inside of the alumina, then it would not be visible and no inspection secrecy would be required.

          • Axil Axil

            You were right. The grid between might control the electric vs, hear output.

  • Axil Axil

    Speculation on how the E-Cat X works.

    The E-Cat-X might works as a Hot cathode. Photons produce hot electrons on the surface of the alumina that are emitted from the surface. If a anode is placed on the outside of the cathode to capture the emitted electrons, then this will setup a current flow between the alumina and the wire grid acting as a anode that surrounds the alumina.

    Alumina is a well known thermionic emitter.

    The steel clad core must produce particle emissions (meson) that set up a LENR reaction in the alumina where the alumina gets hotter than the core. Rossi may have seen the heater wire shadow in the Lugano test which shows that the alumina was hotter than the heater wire which means that the alumina is the site where the LENR reaction is taking place.

    Why would Rossi keep people away from his E-Cat-X? IF someone saw a wire grid surrounding the alumina shell, it is easy to deduce how the E-Cat-X is producing electricity.

    Rossi may have placed the E-Cat-X is a vacuum to optimize electron flow between the cathode(alumina) and the anode (Wire grid or plate).

    • Brokeeper

      So, your saying it may be acting like an old time vacume tube?

      • Axil Axil

        Alumina is a proton conductor so I might have the polarity of the current flow wrong. The current might flow between the negative grid to the positive alumina.

        • Brokeeper

          Then that would be a vacuum tube principle, if the core is acting as the negative cathode and the alumina the anode. Perhaps with a grid between for flow control.

          • US_Citizen71

            Everything old is new again! : )

          • Paul Smith

            In a vacuum electron tube, the cathode is heated by the filament and emits electrons which are captured by the anode (at positive potential).

            Between the two there can be one or more grids which allow to regulate that flow of electrons.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi must have the current collection stuff on the outside of the alumina because he does not want anyone to see what he is doing. If the current collector was on the inside of the alumina, then it would not be visible and no inspection secrecy would be required.

          • Axil Axil

            You were right. The grid between might control the electric vs, heat output.

  • Happy New Energy Year 2016 to all of you, wherever you are!

    • henk

      Hi Mats, same to you and all the readers of this blog.
      Looking forward to your 3d version of An Impossible Invention this year with all the goodies from 1 MW and Ecat-X.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Happy New Fire to you all.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Happy New Fire to you all.

  • Obvious

    If one could slow down a Coulomb explosion to a more friendly pace, perhaps by controlling the charge of the reactants in some way, then the electron movement could be harvested for electricity production. Braking the electrons could make both low energy X-rays and kinetic heat that can be harvested for heat production.

  • Obvious

    If one could slow down a Coulomb explosion to a more friendly pace, perhaps by controlling the charge of the reactants in some way, then the electron movement could be harvested for electricity production. Braking the electrons could make both low energy X-rays and kinetic heat that can be harvested for heat production.

  • GreenWin

    Happy New Year Dottore, Frank and All at eCatWorld!

  • Stephen

    As 2016 wizzes around the world soon it will be here in Europe too.

    When I think back wow what a year 2015 has been. It’s been amazing year to become aware of and to follow the LENR story. Thanks to all of you for such a great year: the developments with e- cat and other projects, the papers and patents revealed and published, the various reviews of the conferences, speeches and presentations, all the brilliant ideas and discussions held on this site and the other blogs and forums, the brilliant and dedicated work by MFMP and all the other amazingly talented replicators. Especially to Frank for this site and for bring us together. It amazes me some of you have been following this story for years and even decades and how it has reached all parts of this world some of which are already now in 2016!

    I’m looking forward to 2016 I hope it brings amazing developments and the benifitial application new fire closer for all. In a couple of hours I for sure will raise glass to all of you.

  • Stephen

    As 2016 wizzes around the world soon it will be here in Europe too.

    When I think back wow what a year 2015 has been. It’s been amazing year to become aware of and to follow the LENR story. Thanks to all of you for such a great year: the developments with e- cat and other projects, the papers and patents revealed and published, the various reviews of the conferences, speeches and presentations, all the brilliant ideas and discussions held on this site and the other blogs and forums, the brilliant and dedicated work by MFMP and all the other amazingly talented replicators. Especially to Frank for this site and for bring us together. It amazes me some of you have been following this story for years and even decades and how it has reached all parts of this world some of which are already now in 2016!

    I’m looking forward to 2016 I hope it brings amazing developments and the benifitial application new fire closer for all. In a couple of hours I for sure will raise glass to all of you.

  • bachcole

    Given the fact the Rossi is a Christian and could have given out information on Christmas as a Christmas gift, and given the fact that he seems so happy about it, I am going to go with the theory that the expiration of his NDA is going to happen at 12:00:01 a.m., January 1st 2016, like Andreas Moraitis said.

    • Bob

      Your scenario has a F9 overtone! It could be positive or negative..
      .
      If Rossi indeed has an NDA that expires, then the positive is that he MIGHT (however doubtful) release truly significant information.
      .
      The negative would be that the only NDA he could possibly have would be with IH / Darden. (No NDA from a secret customer can possibly prevent one from publishing some information about one’s own product, only location and identity of the secret customer. This information would not have a expiration date on it).
      .
      So if the NDA is with Darden and it expires and Rossi releases info, then that means the relationship between Rossi and Darden has broken. This would be a most MAJOR negative in my opinion. If the relationship was still friendly and Rossi wanted to disclose, there would be no issue whether an NDA was in place or not.
      .
      I have stated for some time that the only NDA in place is one that Rossi has with himself! 🙂
      .
      I hope for a significant announcement but in the meantime…… I continue to wait.

      • US_Citizen71

        Could be with the government, but every one I ever signed had a 99 year clause.

  • MarcIrvin

    So Rossi has a working technology, but the world markets think he doesn’t then Rossi only needs to short the present energy commodities markets before he goes Godzilla with his revelations. That way he can have all the capital he needs to cover manufacturing costs world wide. And cover the cost of a large security force at the same time.

  • Gerard McEk

    AR:
    ‘This is how the E-Cat X works. It is a real breakthrough so I first heat it up till about 1400 degrees than it breaks in the middle so I have two halves and a plasma in between. These two halves are entangled and one is positive and the other is negative. That is why I always say F9. Now I discovered that when I put a resistor in between then a current starts to run. That is how I found that it can produce electricity. Once and a while the entangling is released and SSM stops. I have to blow and the entangling reestablishes again. That happens every about 16-18 hours and that is why I need to be there, obviously. Now I am looking for people with the same breath as I have and for that my newly invented commercial model kicks in. I have estimated that people with the same breath as I have, can earn about 1 million a year. So if you want to breathe during one year over the E-Ecats X in your neighborhood, than you have enough money for 10 years (COP of 10). Because you will come at many (private) places you will need to be very discrete, so I will call my task force of breathers ‘Discrete Breathers’. If you want to join my task force of DB’s, please contact Leonardo Corp.
    Happy new year and best wishes, Andrea Rossi’

    I thought that some people could not wait, so I figured out what AR is probably going to say. I hope AR does not mind…
    Happy new year to all of you ;-)! Gerard McEk

    • artefact

      very funny 🙂
      I want to apply as a discrete breather!

    • Brokeeper

      Starting with the bubbly a little early, aye?

    • Daniel Telfer

      Just signed up for the ARF9DB test kit. Happy new year 😁 Outta Breath

      • bachcole

        When are you going to tell us what ARF9DB test kit is. I got the AR part. Oh, “Andrea Rossi F9 Discrete Breather” test kit. Cute.

    • bachcole

      That’s funny.

      • wonderboy

        He is going to announce that his EcatsX is going to be powering Cybernetic Lifeform Node.

        And mass production of Cylons are about to start!

  • Gerard McEk

    AR:
    ‘This is how the E-Cat X works. It is a real breakthrough so I first heat it up till about 1400 degrees than it breaks in the middle so I have two halves and a plasma in between. These two halves are entangled and one is positive and the other is negative. That is why I always say F9. Now I discovered that when I put a resistor in between then a current starts to run. That is how I found that it can produce electricity. Once and a while the entangling is released and SSM stops. I have to blow and the entangling reestablishes again. That happens every about 16-18 hours and that is why I need to be there, obviously. Now I am looking for people with the same breath as I have and for that my newly invented commercial model kicks in. I have estimated that people with the same breath as I have, can earn about 1 million a year. So if you want to breathe during one year over the E-Ecats X in your neighborhood, than you have enough money for 10 years (COP of 10). Because you will come at many (private) places you will need to be very discrete, so I will call my task force of breathers ‘Discrete Breathers’. If you want to join my task force of DB’s, please contact Leonardo Corp.
    Happy new year and best wishes, Andrea Rossi’

    I thought that some people could not wait, so I figured out what AR is probably going to say. I hope AR does not mind…
    Happy new year to all of you ;-)! Gerard McEk

    • Paul Smith

      Very funny “Discrete Breathers”

    • artefact

      very funny 🙂
      I want to apply as a discrete breather!

    • Brokeeper

      Starting with the bubbly a little early, aye?

    • Daniel Telfer

      Just signed up for the ARF9DB test kit. Happy new year 😁 Outta Breath

      • bachcole

        When are you going to tell us what ARF9DB test kit is. I got the AR part. Oh, “Andrea Rossi F9 Discrete Breather” test kit. Cute.

    • bachcole

      That’s funny.

  • US_Citizen71

    They know about it SPAWAR and NAVSEA are part of the government, what they publicly admit to is another story. LENR and other energy dense technologies have too much military potential to ignore. But that doesn’t mean that they will you and I what they know and when they first knew it. ; )

    • bachcole

      “They” are millions of people do not all believe the same things. To think that they are a monolithic group who are all on the same page fails to understand human beings and human beings in groups. Even in my very small group of 5 people called my family, most do not believe in Meher Baba, most merely tolerate me about cold fusion, and not all are yet on board with molecular hydrogen.

      • US_Citizen71

        Military program heads don’t care about how or why something works only that it does. When something with great military value is discovered, no matter how bizarre or strange it may seem, those controlling the purse strings and the programs in general only care if it can be developed it something they can use. If the brass truly wanted the LENR programs to go away they would have gone away. ‘Have Blue’ comes to mind it was the predecessor to the stealth fighter program. Initial goals were to reduce radar cross section. When the engineers succeeded wonderfully, it went very black. Do you think the guy making the call understood the physics involved? The first prototype flew in December of 1977, when did you first hear about the US Stealth fighter?

  • Frank Acland

    December 31st, 2015 at 2:48 PM

    Dear Andrea,
    I hope you are having a delightful New Year’s Eve in the plant. We are having a party at E-Cat World, please feel free to drop in and join us as we look forward to 2016!
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/30/big-reveal-from-rossi-at-midnight-new-years-eve/

    Best wishes to you and your team — and thanks for keeping us all informed.

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi

    December 31st, 2015 at 3:37 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Best wishes to all the Friends of E-Catworld . I’m already there, don’t you see me?
    A.R.

    • Frank Acland

      Glad you are with us, Andrea!

      • artefact

        yayyy!

        (When I used the internet for the first time I wondered where the others are who visite the same site at the same time 🙂 )

  • Oystein Lande

    Happy New year to everyone. 2 hrs left to 2016 kicks in.

    Fun fact: in 2016 it will be a 100 year anniversiry of the invention of the first radio tuners.

    And we may wonder if the RF frequency that “tunes” on LENR in e-cat Will be revealed in 2016…..

  • Oystein Lande

    Happy New year to everyone. 2 hrs left to 2016 kicks in.

    Fun fact: in 2016 it will be a 100 year anniversiry of the invention of the first radio tuners. (That could recieve different stations)

    And we may wonder if the RF frequency that “tunes” on LENR in e-cat Will be revealed in 2016…..

  • Christina

    Happy New Year!

    Christina

  • Christina

    Happy New Year!

    Christina

  • Hank Mills

    My guess is that Rossi is using one or more permanent magnets or electromagnets to align the alpha particles emitted by the proton-lithium reaction along one vector. This would allow for a non-random magnetic field that could be harvested and converted to electricity via a pickup coil. Without such an external magnetic field to direct the alpha particles, the mostly random magnetic fields would only produce heat via eddy currents. By choosing to what degree you align the alpha particles, you can vary the ratio of heat or electricity produced. I hope a permanent magnet will suffice – it would reduce the input power requirements. Also, the permanent magnets could be thermally insulated with a magnetically transparent – non-ferromagnetic – substance like aerogel.

    This is my prediction.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I am minded to agree. As I said the other day – if the electricity does not come from TEG or Photo Volataic, it will be from Beta or Alpha Voltaics – and TEG or Photo Voltaic would be harder to switch between heat and electricity – I think this is a good prediction.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Rossi was into thermoelectrics before. Perhaps he has found a trick to use the Ecat-X reaction directly. My guess is that it is some kind of electric junction, like a PV cell, that is more efficient if stimulated right at the junction. I think 5% efficiency of thermoelectric generators is the current limit. If he can get 30% light, 40% heat, and 30% electricity, it’s revolutionary. We will see what he is getting out of the device when it is released to the public.

    • Axil Axil

      IMHO, electrons come out of the core directly without help,,, like a hot cathode. I believe that the reaction produces mesons as per Holmlid that generate multiple electrons at the end of their decay path.

  • Hank Mills

    My guess is that Rossi is using one or more permanent magnets or electromagnets to align the alpha particles emitted by the proton-lithium reaction along one vector. This would allow for a non-random magnetic field that could be harvested and converted to electricity via a pickup coil. Without such an external magnetic field to direct the alpha particles, the mostly random magnetic fields would only produce heat via eddy currents. By choosing to what degree you align the alpha particles, you can vary the ratio of heat or electricity produced. I hope a permanent magnet will suffice – it would reduce the input power requirements. Also, the permanent magnets could be thermally insulated with a magnetically transparent – non-ferromagnetic – substance like aerogel.

    This is my prediction.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I am minded to agree. As I said the other day – if the electricity does not come from TEG or Photo Volataic, it will be from Beta or Alpha Voltaics – and TEG or Photo Voltaic would be harder to switch between heat and electricity – I think this is a good prediction.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Rossi was into thermoelectrics before. Perhaps he has found a trick to use the Ecat-X reaction directly. My guess is that it is some kind of electric junction, like a PV cell, that is more efficient if stimulated right at the junction. I think 5% efficiency of thermoelectric generators is the current limit. If he can get 30% light, 40% heat, and 30% electricity, it’s revolutionary. We will see what he is getting out of the device when it is released to the public.

    • Axil Axil

      IMHO, electrons come out of the core directly without help,,, like a hot cathode. I believe that the reaction produces mesons as per Holmlid that generate multiple electrons at the end of their decay path.

  • Billy Jackson

    okay that’s it for me! .. not coming back till next year 🙂

    • Bob

      Your scenario has a F9 overtone! It could be positive or negative..
      .
      If Rossi indeed has an NDA that expires, then the positive is that he MIGHT (however doubtful) release truly significant information.
      .
      The negative would be that the only NDA he could possibly have would be with IH / Darden. (No NDA from a secret customer can possibly prevent one from publishing some information about one’s own product, only location and identity of the secret customer. This information would not have a expiration date on it).
      .
      So if the NDA is with Darden and it expires and Rossi releases info, then that means the relationship between Rossi and Darden has broken. This would be a most MAJOR negative in my opinion. If the relationship was still friendly and Rossi wanted to disclose, there would be no issue whether an NDA was in place or not.
      .
      I have stated for some time that the only NDA in place is one that Rossi has with himself! 🙂
      .
      I hope for a significant announcement but in the meantime…… I continue to wait.

      • US_Citizen71

        Could be with the government, but every one I ever signed had a 99 year clause.

    • Omega Z

      As a reminder for those concerned that Rossi is just a 1 man band-
      Or that Rossi doesn’t talk about Industrial heat & Tom Darden-

      http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/11/25/fulvio-fabiani-discusses-rossi-and-the-e-cat-with-mats-lewan/

      Fulvio states that he is at the head of a group of 12 engineers, and later he mentions that there are 10 or 15 ‘top level managers’ which include Darden and Rossi. He says regardless of how commenters on the internet complain about things going so slowly, “I only see people really devoting all their resources and all their time to make this happen.”

      P.S.
      From what I understand, Rossi plays the drums.
      Kind of fitting for the Chief of R&D
      Rossi sets the BEAT…

      • Bob

        I agree, that posts from Fabiani are an encouraging confirmation for Rossi. The more external evidence the better!.
        .
        He also stated that Rossi lets no one know or handle the “secret sauce”. So it is still a bit of a one man show. I imagine that a percentage of the other engineers handle the plumbing, programming, electrical and input power systems. Any assumptions about the actual eCat are still very unfounded at this point… either my point or yours! We simply do not know much.
        .
        Perhaps we will know more after midnight!
        .
        I do wait with some hope but not too much expectation….

        • US_Citizen71

          I can understand the limiting of people handling the fuel for two reasons. One to keep control of the IP, limiting access keeps honest people honest. Can you imagine what some might be willing to pay for a sample of the secret sauce? Two because it is very toxic and reactive. Not everyone is trained to deal with substances that can kill you if you wear to thin of gloves or get the slightest amount on your skin. Nano-nickel is very dangerous.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi shared the Fuel mixture with Tom Darden. This information would be restricted to need to know. That the rest of the R&D team isn’t privy to it is not unusual.

          However, the fuel mix would be revised with every new detail they learn so Darden probably wouldn’t know the very latest revisions. So, should something happen to Rossi, it would be a setback. It would not be the end. They could bring someone in that would soon fill his shoes in that regard.

          Everything else is known by others. The reactor designs etc, and Fulvio works with the excitation system(mouse). The real loss would be Rossi’s intuitive way of thinking & a much longer path to market. IMO…

  • Billy Jackson

    okay that’s it for me! .. not coming back till next year 🙂

  • hempenearth

    It’s past 10am on 1 Jan here. This time zone is a test of patience.

    • bachcole

      And of course you’re going to tell us where you are. (:->)

  • Observer

    I predict that, in the future, when someone has a great idea, cartoonists will draw a picture of an E-Cat X above their head!

    • bachcole

      Nice.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Let’s face it – an LED looks stupid.

  • artefact

    00:54 here. Happy new year to you all. You are great. Thank you.
    Alarm Clock set to 05:50 just for the fun of it 🙂

  • Jonnyb

    Happy New Year to you all, in the U.K. anyway. When I wake up hopefully there will be a major new posting from Andrea on here. Peace and Love to you all.

  • Jonnyb

    Happy New Year to you all, in the U.K. anyway. When I wake up hopefully there will be a major new posting from Andrea on here. Peace and Love to you all.

  • Frank Acland

    AR has had time to file a patent application on the E-Cat X, and said he started work on the application immediately following the discovery that led to direct electrical production. If the application is now safely filed, maybe he feels comfortable sharing the information in it.

    • Bob

      I am not a patent attorney by no means… so my input is admittedly from little experience.
      However, if he discovered this on Dec. 25, a Friday, it is very unlikely that he has had a reasonable patent application drawn up, reviewed by the patent attorneys and filed before today. Patent reviews always have multiple markups and changes made by the attorneys.
      You have to send them the draft, the review accordingly to their schedule, send back the requested clarifications, revisions and edits. Then once you make them that process starts over again. Normally three of four times..
      .
      Not impossible, but unlikely to happen this quickly. And this assumes that the patent application was from the discovery he stated happened on Dec. 25th. Previous work may be applicable, but it sounded as this was a totally new revelation.
      .
      I await the New Years ….. and wait for significant news!

      • purplepartyguy

        Perhaps its just a refinement of his existing patent, maybe its just a unique way of applying his original patent and will be covered.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi merely needs to be real careful of what he posts.
        With revisions in the patent laws in recent years, publishing certain details prior to filing a patent can have a very negative effect on that patent.

        Thus, don’t expect much in details.

  • Omega Z

    As a reminder for those concerned that Rossi is just a 1 man band-
    Or that Rossi doesn’t talk about Industrial heat & Tom Darden-

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/11/25/fulvio-fabiani-discusses-rossi-and-the-e-cat-with-mats-lewan/

    Fulvio states that he is at the head of a group of 12 engineers, and later he mentions that there are 10 or 15 ‘top level managers’ which include Darden and Rossi. He says regardless of how commenters on the internet complain about things going so slowly, “I only see people really devoting all their resources and all their time to make this happen.”

    P.S.
    From what I understand, Rossi plays the drums.
    Kind of fitting for the Chief of R&D
    Rossi sets the BEAT…

    • Bob

      I agree, that posts from Fabiani are an encouraging confirmation for Rossi. The more external evidence the better!.
      .
      He also stated that Rossi lets no one know or handle the “secret sauce”. So it is still a bit of a one man show. I imagine that a percentage of the other engineers handle the plumbing, programming, electrical and input power systems. Any assumptions about the actual eCat are still very unfounded at this point… either my point or yours! We simply do not know much.
      .
      Perhaps we will know more after midnight!
      .
      I do wait with some hope but not too much expectation….

      • US_Citizen71

        I can understand the limiting of people handling the fuel for two reasons. One to keep control of the IP, limiting access keeps honest people honest. Can you imagine what some might be willing to pay for a sample of the secret sauce? Two because it is very toxic and reactive. Not everyone is trained to deal with substances that can kill you if you wear too thin of gloves or get the slightest amount on your skin. Nano-nickel is very dangerous.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi shared the Fuel mixture with Tom Darden. This information would be restricted to need to know. That the rest of the R&D team isn’t privy to it is not unusual.

        However, the fuel mix would be revised with every new detail they learn so Darden probably wouldn’t know the very latest revisions. So, should something happen to Rossi, it would be a setback. It would not be the end. They could bring someone in that would soon fill his shoes in that regard.

        Everything else is known by others. The reactor designs etc, and Fulvio works with the excitation system(mouse). The real loss would be Rossi’s intuitive way of thinking & a much longer path to market. IMO…

  • john M

    Frank, you need a countdown timer for this thread.

  • wonderboy

    He is going to announce that his EcatsX is going to be powering Cybernetic Lifeform Node.

    And mass production of Cylons are about to start!

  • Ano Nymous

    Will there be a google hangout for the midnight reveal?

  • Ano Nymous

    Will there be a google hangout for the midnight reveal?

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys, and happy new year to all, will we get the news here, or will we have to go to Dr.R web page.

    • ecatworld

      It will be posted on the JONP. I am sure reposted here soon after.

      • clovis ray

        Thanks buddy and happy new year,

        • Jas

          Almost 15 minutes to go UK time. Bring it on!

          • LarryJ

            Electricity exits directly from the wafer. I guess that excludes theories about add on magnets and pv cells

          • Agaricus

            Perhaps, but there is no indication in the patent drawings of where the electricity might be tapped, and how it is produced. The two possibilities seem to be that either (1) current flow is induced (by EM fields generated by the ‘fuel’ layers?) directly into the steel sheets, or (2) the ‘heater layer’ incorporates some kind of thermo-electric converter. I would like to have learned a little more about how it is possible to adjust the output ratio between electricity and heat.

            Omega Z has commented on the durability of a device running at 1400+ C and as AR has now confirmed that ‘e-cat x’ is constructed from alternating steel sheets, I tend to agree. Even if the surfaces of the sheets are protected by the fuel deposition layers, it seems highly likely that the outer edges will oxidise progressively as any film coating would tend to spall off with time. Steel rarely fares well for any length of time under conditions like these.

            Oh well, I suppose we’ve learned just a little bit more about these devices. It seems unlikely though that any of this will be of much relevance for quite some time – there is the small matter of introducing industrial LENR technology first, and then of gaining safety certification for use of derived technology outside of industry – and then of winning the inevitable battle with entrenched interests for control of cold fusion. I won’t be buying a white van just yet.

            A happy and prosperous New Year to everyone.

          • Omega Z

            –>”I won’t be buying a white van just yet.”

            Agaricus___SERIOUSLY???
            Dang, I guess I picked a bad time to corner the market on white vans…. 🙁

            IMHO, I think Rossi is doing what many here at ECW tend to do.
            One Size Fits All. The deployment he envisions may work in the mega cities, but once outside them, the costs would be extremely prohibitive.

            I’m just thinking about the city, population 100K(don’t recall the name but it’s on the east coast) replaced a crumbling sewer system. Projected cost was several 100 million but 30 billion when completed. Or $300K per person. There was supposed to be an investigation, but never happened. This was 1 of several such cases.

            What you end up with costs so high, people abandon their homes, desert the city & move. Kind of what happened to Detroit city. Debts based on population of 1.8 million that declined to 650K. My girlfriend & I moved from a city because the $15 a month sewer bill jumped to $200 a month with the new sewer system. Can’t recall if that was based on 30 or 40 year payback.

            Rossi should probably leave the envisioning of the deployment of this technology to others to deal with. Every city would be different. All Rossi needs to do is provide a variety of products for people to select from.
            Just my 50 cents worth.

          • Agaricus

            Agreed. As I’ve been saying for as long as I can remember, the real hope for cold fusion is that it escapes any monopoly control at some point, and thousands of minds turn to its development and exploitation. This will probably only happen when someone stumbles on the secrets of producing kW-level power output, and releases the core information into the public domain.

            If this happens some time soon then Rossi will be remembered because he showed that it could be done, and not because his company was the one that introduced the new age, just like Lenoir (IC engine), Tesla (AC power, etc.), the Wright brothers, Turing (programmable electronic computer), Cerf and Kahn (internet) before him.

          • Local authorities or countries so indebted they have to keep high tax rates (France is at 57% of income, including deficit, 52% raw) will simply be deserted if there is no real advantage being there.

            Having good infrastructure is such asset, but paying the debt of previous generations is not.

            In france many people with talent (not wealthy people, who often know how to play with the game which is made for protecting installed people in their current situation…. France just prevent change) go abroad, to UK or farther.

            People more normal just go “dark” defrauding taxes. some say it is internal tax evasion.

            Some simply stop making effort as it is hopeless, and enjoy what they have.

            This was a theory of Laffer. France have proven it is real.

            if US government try to waste as much money as today, without the matching service, like paying back the debt, people will flee.

            today the infrastructure (energy, roads, laws, safety, entrepreneurial ecosystems) are good enough for people who stay.
            If state try to get as much money from LENR as they get from oil, people will not pay but flee.

            however if people see that they pay for a road (toll road) maybe they will accept to pay , but not taxes.
            same for school…

            Problem is some people are so desperate that they will not ask a decent enough wage, to be able to save money to pay school, health insurance, toll road.
            This is the problem, not that you have to pay for wwhat you use, and thus to manage it as if you pay with your own money.

            this is where basic income could be a way to manage taxes in a more intelligent way… it have many advantage for a “laisser-faire” supporter as for a “social-security” defender.

        • bachcole

          Three more minutes.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Happy New Year!

        • Axil Axil

          From: “In that town there were about 1 million lamps each of them of 500 watts, consuming about 50 watts; consequently, there were 450 MWh/h produced, of which about half were turned into heat ”

          input: 50 watts
          output: 500 watts
          COP: 10 (if not self powered.)

          Heat: 225 watts
          Electricity: 225 watts

          • Gerard McEk

            Hou

          • theBuckWheat

            LENR in general and the Rossi line of E-Cats in particular are an amazing development in human history. The people who bring commercially viable uses of this technology to the market cannot be given enough honor and praise. May they also enjoy the wealth that they will create. This will make life better for all humanity in so many ways.

            We also have yet to see how those who vigorously work to stop human progress will react. They will certainly do so. Many people and non-profit organizations exist that have spent their lives opposing the use of petroleum as fuel and they have a well developed body of rhetoric and argument. They have a full catalog of imagery, such as the lone polar bear on a tiny ice chunk. You are killing the sweet polar bears every time you fill your car with gasoline. You must hate nature.

            All of these lies will be rendered moot when LENR becomes widely commercialized. But there will be new lies about LENR. It will be called dangerous for some reason that the ignorant public will swallow just as easily as they swallowed Michael Mann’s fraudulent hockey stick. (based on deliberately jiggered models). Since LENR promises to greatly reduce the need to burn something to generate energy (!!), it strikes directly at the need to do climate research and to develop horribly expensive wind energy. It even threatens the need for climate research itself. It also threatens the way in which quite a few Arab countries earn the money to pay for their food imports.

            So there are a lot of forces in the world that will be negatively affected by this wonderfully good thing. The counter-attack will begin very soon after it becomes commercially viable. May we have that debate and conflict sooner than later!

          • Ophelia Rump

            Self sustaining micro grid.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys, and happy new year to all, will we get the news here, or will we have to go to Dr.R web page.

    • Frank Acland

      It will be posted on the JONP. I am sure reposted here soon after.

      • clovis ray

        Thanks buddy and happy new year,

  • Jas

    Almost 15 minutes to go UK time. Bring it on!

  • bachcole

    Three more minutes.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Happy New Year!

  • William D. Fleming

    Happy New Year all!

    • artefact

      Happy new year!

      • NT

        This is almost like watching the first moon landing…

        • Ophelia Rump

          This is the most excitement I’ve had on New Years since I was five and stayed up to see what happens. I was so disappointed!

    • nietsnie

      Deck the halls with Boston Charlie…!

      • artefact

        Andrea Rossi
        January 1st, 2016 at 12:19 AM

        Dear Readers of the JoNP:
        It’s 00.00.01″ of January 1st 2016.
        Update: the 1 MW E-Cat is stable and in ssm, the E-Cat X is very promising and still operating and making heat, electricity.
        The E-Cat X is very close to the design of the core of the apparatus described in the US Patent, I mean the wafer. It has been engineered to resist to very high temperatures. The electricity exits directly from the wafer.
        As I said , several nights ago I had a dream. The E-Cat X had been produced in billions pieces, each of them assembled with others in various combinations to make public lamps: a town was totally illuminated by the E-Cat X and from every lamp a network of pipes and of wires was able to distribute heat and electricity to the houses.
        In that town there were about 1 million lamps each of them of 500 watts, consuming about 50 watts; consequently, there were 450 MWh/h produced, of which about half were turned into heat distributed to the houses through a network of well insulated pipes, running inderground, like optic fibers, the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households. The cost of the E-Cat X was around 50 $/kW of power, due to the production of billions of pieces per year in all the world, with tens of thousands of jobs. Less taxes were paid by the people, due to the saves derived from low pollution and low energy cost for public services. Millions of persons were also earning money selling E-Cats and every owner of E-Cats was saving money in utilities ( electricity, heat, light).
        Then I heard the alarm clock: it was time to return to the factory, to make true the dream. F9.
        Happy new year, I love you all.
        I am drinking my cup of Korbel champagne, then i have to return to the gauges of the plant. She is good, tonight.
        Again, Happy 2016, May God bless you all,
        Andrea

        • Anon2012_2014

          God Speed Rossi.

        • NT

          I want my town to be like that! Thanks Dr. Rossi for hopefully making that a near future possibility..

        • Ecat

          LOL

        • EEStorFanFibb

          i like it!

        • Brokeeper

          Combined localized distributed system. Good potential. Really like the price: $50/KW. Lots of questions coming.

        • bachcole

          Even if most of the world is ignoring you, Andrea; even if many people think that you are a fool or a fraud; the entire angelic realm is focusing upon you and helping you from within. You are the Father of the New Economic Age.

          • nietsnie

            Well… that was anti-climactic. I left a party so that I could be available to read about what e-cat x is. I really don’t know anything more than I did yesterday.

        • Bob

          Distributed power? This will be a bit disappointing to those who swore the eCat would get them off the grid. This is simply a new grid.
          .
          I do not understand this vision. My home is a typical home. At times, it easily peaks at 10,000 watts. Summer time runs 3500 watts plus continuous. There would have to be 20 lamps surrounding my home alone if each lamp produced 500 watts! This does not make sense and has not been thought out.
          .
          Running pipes for heat? This would require pumps, valves, meters, etc. Under ground insulation. A huge amount of physical infra structure to run these pipes into houses. The cost would be huge and not much payback. Someone would be selling this heat and electricity. It is simply another utility company description.
          .
          People will not pay less taxes. This is like electric cars. Already governments are looking to charge taxes by miles driven instead of gallons purchased. The government WILL NOT lose out on tax revenue. They will simply revise tax code. I would like to pay less taxes, but this is a dream and not reality.
          .
          Millions selling eCats? I need say nothing.
          .
          He was dreaming all right. Most of my dreams make no sense either!
          .
          As before, I continue to wait…. for something from Tom Darden.
          .
          🙁

          • SG

            When I read it, it evoked the days of Tesla and Edison competing to light up towns across America and the world. I actually enjoyed the read, but agree, that there are probably more practical ways to go about things in the end.

          • ecatworld

            Right it was just a dream — but if it provides AR with motivation, it’s a good dream, I reckon.

          • hempenearth

            Electricity from wafers from unrelated companies in Dublin and Miami, mmmm……

          • Axil Axil

            If the X cat operates like a vacuum tube, it may be possible to control what it does by applying voltage to various control grids. Heat vs, electricity and voltage vs. current could be controlled by a associated control grid. This tells us something about how the LENR reaction works. If a voltage on a control grid pulls out EMF from the core, the electric output goes up and the heat goes down. If a grid restricts the current, then the voltage goes up.

            The charged particle that might be effected that is active in the LENR reaction might be muons. Pulling muons out of the core may slow down the reaction and keeping them inside the core may speed up the reaction.

            If I were Rossi, I would look for muon emissions coming out of his reactor.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Bob,

            You’re being too literal in your interpretation of Rossi’s vision. It’s an idea for how to employ Ecat-Xs, nothing more. If he gets them to work and can release either version the world wide engineering to use such a device will take over and correct any oversights in the inventor’s concept.

            This is what Rossi dreams about. It’s worthy of an inventor. If he can deliver even 1/3 of that, he’s a hero. We have to wish him luck no matter what our assessment is of the reality.

            Best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive New Year!

          • Omega Z

            Bob,
            I agree, this vision will not work. At least not outside the mega cities.
            IMO, Rossi should just develop an assortment of products & let those more knowledgeable in this area figure out how to deploy it. Which will vary from city to city & region.

            As to your peak demand, a grid only needs to meet peak demand for the community. Not everyone’s AC, refrigerator etc will be running simultaneously. However, If your off grid, then you need to meet your personal peak demand periods & such a system will actually cost you more for installed output & the wasted energy you don’t always need. Off grid will simply cost more.

            LESS TAXES: Read his post closely.
            Schools, Government buildings Etc, will have huge energy savings, thus less Taxes. Sounds Great. What Rossi fails to understand is “Government” will not reduce the taxes accordingly. If one was lucky, Government would delay a tax increase. But don’t hold your breath. The likely outcome is they will raise them even more. You have more money due to the energy savings.They want what you save.

          • ecatworld

            Theoretically he is right. Think of all the savings that local, regional and national governments could realize if their energy costs were slashed. Military budgets too would be affected. Energy assistance programs to lower income people would be cheaper. If the tech could be used in transportation, then huge fuel savings would be realized for buses, trucks, police vehicles, etc.

          • Omega Z

            The Key is “Theoretically he is right.”
            This was what I was pointing out to Bob. But the Government will not reduce the tax rate & return this saving to the citizens. In fact, history says they will calculate you are saving $2000 a year and justify raising taxes to coup at least $1000 of your savings. I’ve watched their shenanigans for decades.

            A County night patrol was running a 50% deficit of a $200K dollar budget. They County proposed a 50 cents on $100 valuation tax. Only 25 cents would be collected to cover the short fall. The additional 25 cent per $100 would only be collected for asset(Cars etc.) replacement as & only when needed. Not annually. 30 minutes after the tax passed they announced- They would collect the full value & cover the full $200K annually thus transferring out the $100K originally in the budget to other departments.

            The State of Illinois raised income taxes by 50%. Earmarked to eliminate the deficit only to spend even more and still carrying the deficit. I’ve witnessed this dozens of times in different cities & states.

            A State that spends $8 Billion dollars on education enacts a lottery. The proceeds of which are to go to education.(It’s a good cause & people pass the vote) Lottery takes in a Billion$. The state budgets $7 Billion dollars then adds the Billion$ from the lottery. Still totals only $8 Billion. By slight of hand, they shifted the lottery proceeds to other departments.

            It’s highly probable there will be no tax savings. As I point out, they will likely justify a tax increase due to people saving on energy costs as they can afford it & the Government needs it. The Government track record speaks volumes.
            I really wish there was no need to be pessimistic, But….

          • f sedei

            It’s an ongoing battle, first against the cold fusion naysayer scientists and now, with the possibility of success, the Feds. The “Enemy Within”?

        • Observer

          Okay, each E-Cat X is producing 500 Watts of power (light+heat+electricity). 50 Watts of electrical power is used to maintain the E-Cat X reaction. 225 Watts are going to heat and 225 Watts are split between light and electricity. (A 100 Watt incandescent light bulb produces ~20 Watts of light and ~80 Watts of heat.) During the daytime less light and more electricity is needed. During the summer less heat is needed. The question is: Is the ratios between light. heat, and electricity determined during manufacturing or is it adjustable?

          • Axil Axil

            Its adjustable as per Rossi.

          • Roland

            It took ‘moments’ to apply an insight to the same ‘old’, or very similar, E-cat X reactor which then became adjustable for several variables; not just heat and/or electricity but voltage and amperage as well, and now it ‘throttles’ up and down rapidly.

            All in one day.

            In short Rossi had an insight into (a) fundamental mechanism(s) of LENR and when those were applied to the reactor new properties ’emerged’ immediately. There is a new understanding and a ‘new’ reactor.

            The other bombshell, although an aspiration rather than accomplished realization, pertains to the capital cost of reactor cores. For decades large scale conventional power plants have always cost right around $1.00/W to build as innovation and improved efficiency neutralized inflationary trends.

            Rossi proposes to sell bare bones reactors that cost $.05/W and have insignificant fuel costs; after you build your industrial scale $1.00/W plant you still have to string long cables and feed it something .

            P.S.

            Having read a few comments I realized that I’d read Rossi’s missive through my own lens; I thought that 50W, prorated, was devoted to public illumination (presumably LED) and that the remaining 450W was deliverable as electricity and/or heat on a demand basis to adjacent dwellings through buried infrastructure. (That does seem a bit complicated, but, after all, it’s a dream, and a pleasant one.)

            If this interpretation is correct there are no implications for system COP values in the received information.

      • nietsnie

        No wait – that’s not right. I looked it up. It goes like this:

        Deck us all with Boston Charlie,

        Walla walla, Wash., an’ Kalamazoo!

        Nora’s freezin’ on the trolley,

        Swaller dollar cauliflower alley’garoo!

        Don’t we know archaic barrel,

        Lullaby lilla boy, Louisville Lou?

        Trolley Molly don’t love Harold,

        Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

        Bark us all bow-wows of folly,

        Polly welly cracker n’ too-da-loo!

        Donkey Bonny brays a carol,

        Antelope Cantaloup, ‘lope with you!

        Hunky Dory’s pop is lolly gaggin’ on the wagon,

        Willy, folly go through!

        Chollie’s collie barks at Barrow,

        Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!

        Duck us all in bowls of barley,

        Ninky dinky dink an’ polly voo!

        Chilly Filly’s name is Chollie,

        Chollie Filly’s jolly chilly view halloo!

        Bark us all bow-wows of folly,

        Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, Woof, Woof!

        Tizzy seas on melon collie!

        Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, Goof, Goof!

  • William D. Fleming

    Happy New Year all!

    • artefact

      Happy new year!

    • nietsnie

      Deck the halls with Boston Charlie…!

      • nietsnie

        No wait – that’s not right. I looked it up. It goes like this:

        Deck us all with Boston Charlie,

        Walla walla, Wash., an’ Kalamazoo!

        Nora’s freezin’ on the trolley,

        Swaller dollar cauliflower alley’garoo!

        Don’t we know archaic barrel,

        Lullaby lilla boy, Louisville Lou?

        Trolley Molly don’t love Harold,

        Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

        Bark us all bow-wows of folly,

        Polly welly cracker n’ too-da-loo!

        Donkey Bonny brays a carol,

        Antelope Cantaloup, ‘lope with you!

        Hunky Dory’s pop is lolly gaggin’ on the wagon,

        Willy, folly go through!

        Chollie’s collie barks at Barrow,

        Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!

        Duck us all in bowls of barley,

        Ninky dinky dink an’ polly voo!

        Chilly Filly’s name is Chollie,

        Chollie Filly’s jolly chilly view halloo!

        Bark us all bow-wows of folly,

        Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, Woof, Woof!

        Tizzy seas on melon collie!

        Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, Goof, Goof!

  • mike wolf

    Happy New Year all!

  • mike wolf

    Happy New Year all!

  • NT

    This is almost like watching the first moon landing…

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is the most excitement I’ve had on New Years since I was five and stayed up to see what happens. I was so disappointed!

      This is the first new year in my life that anything ever happened at midnight!
      Thank you Dottore Rossi.

  • bachcole

    I’ve waited 10 minutes for my date, and he didn’t show. I guess I’ll go back to Scrabble.

  • LarryJ

    Maybe he dozed off or his champagne cork knocked him out.

  • LarryJ

    Maybe he dozed off or his champagne cork knocked him out.

  • ecatworld

    He’s a bit late. Happy 2016 to those already there!

    • NT

      Champagne can do that to you…

    • Krish

      HAPPY NEW YEAR, FRANK.

  • Frank Acland

    He’s a bit late. Happy 2016 to those already there!

    • NT

      Champagne can do that to you…

    • Krish

      HAPPY NEW YEAR, FRANK.

  • So in germany we are 6:10 in 2016 and i just came home, happy new year to all!

  • So in germany we are 6:10 in 2016 and i just came home, happy new year to all!

  • Fibber McGourlick

    He didn’t say when he would finish writing it.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    He didn’t say when he would finish writing it.

    • bachcole

      Perhaps he is having a fist fight with the lawyers. (:->)

  • Anon2012_2014

    Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year ECW and Andrea Rossi!!!

    -Anon2012-2014
    (Maybe I should update that handle)

  • Anon2012_2014

    Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year ECW and Andrea Rossi!!!

    -Anon2012-2014
    (Maybe I should update that handle)

  • artefact

    Andrea Rossi
    January 1st, 2016 at 12:19 AM

    Dear Readers of the JoNP:
    It’s 00.00.01″ of January 1st 2016.
    Update: the 1 MW E-Cat is stable and in ssm, the E-Cat X is very promising and still operating and making heat, electricity.
    The E-Cat X is very close to the design of the core of the apparatus described in the US Patent, I mean the wafer. It has been engineered to resist to very high temperatures. The electricity exits directly from the wafer.
    As I said , several nights ago I had a dream. The E-Cat X had been produced in billions pieces, each of them assembled with others in various combinations to make public lamps: a town was totally illuminated by the E-Cat X and from every lamp a network of pipes and of wires was able to distribute heat and electricity to the houses.
    In that town there were about 1 million lamps each of them of 500 watts, consuming about 50 watts; consequently, there were 450 MWh/h produced, of which about half were turned into heat distributed to the houses through a network of well insulated pipes, running inderground, like optic fibers, the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households. The cost of the E-Cat X was around 50 $/kW of power, due to the production of billions of pieces per year in all the world, with tens of thousands of jobs. Less taxes were paid by the people, due to the saves derived from low pollution and low energy cost for public services. Millions of persons were also earning money selling E-Cats and every owner of E-Cats was saving money in utilities ( electricity, heat, light).
    Then I heard the alarm clock: it was time to return to the factory, to make true the dream. F9.
    Happy new year, I love you all.
    I am drinking my cup of Korbel champagne, then i have to return to the gauges of the plant. She is good, tonight.
    Again, Happy 2016, May God bless you all,
    Andrea

    • Anon2012_2014

      God Speed Rossi.

    • NT

      I want my town to be like that! Thanks Dr. Rossi for hopefully making that a near future possibility..

    • Ecat

      LOL

    • i like it!

    • Brokeeper

      Combined localized distributed system. Good potential. Really like the price: $50/KW. Lots of questions coming.

    • bachcole

      Even if most of the world is ignoring you, Andrea; even if many people think that you are a fool or a fraud; the entire angelic realm is focusing upon you and helping you from within. You are the Father of the New Economic Age.

    • Bob

      Distributed power? This will be a bit disappointing to those who swore the eCat would get them off the grid. This is simply a new grid.
      .
      I do not understand this vision. My home is a typical home. At times, it easily peaks at 10,000 watts. Summer time runs 3500 watts plus continuous. There would have to be 20 lamps surrounding my home alone if each lamp produced 500 watts! This does not make sense and has not been thought out.
      .
      Running pipes for heat? This would require pumps, valves, meters, etc. Under ground insulation. A huge amount of physical infra structure to run these pipes into houses. The cost would be huge and not much payback. Someone would be selling this heat and electricity. It is simply another utility company description.
      .
      People will not pay less taxes. This is like electric cars. Already governments are looking to charge taxes by miles driven instead of gallons purchased. The government WILL NOT lose out on tax revenue. They will simply revise tax code. I would like to pay less taxes, but this is a dream and not reality.
      .
      Millions selling eCats? I need say nothing.
      .
      He was dreaming all right. Most of my dreams make no sense either!
      .
      As before, I continue to wait…. for something from Tom Darden.
      .
      🙁

      • SG

        When I read it, it evoked the days of Tesla and Edison competing to light up towns across America and the world. I actually enjoyed the read, but agree, that there are probably more practical ways to go about things in the end.

      • Frank Acland

        Right it was just a dream — but if it provides AR with motivation, it’s a good dream, I reckon.

        • mike wolf

          I don’t know Frank. I think he was telling us something without obviously telling us. But I am optimistic he knows he made revolution in the ecatx.

          • Frank Acland

            Yes, I think you could be right there. The good news is that he has suddenly started thinking in terms of electrical production, rather than just heat, which is where everyone hoped we could get to. Now the concern about the expense and losses of steam turbines and Carnot efficiency can be pretty much set aside. He talks about 50 W consumption to make 500 W of electric output, which is COP 10 electric to electric.

      • Anon2012_2014

        Bob,

        You’re being too literal in your interpretation of Rossi’s vision. It’s an idea for how to employ Ecat-Xs, nothing more. If he gets them to work and can release either version the world wide engineering to use such a device will take over and correct any oversights in the inventor’s concept.

        This is what Rossi dreams about. It’s worthy of an inventor. If he can deliver even 1/3 of that, he’s a hero. We have to wish him luck no matter what our assessment is of the reality.

        Best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive New Year!

      • invient

        It was underwhelming as “big reveals” go.

        The good news is we now know that if we follow the patent and make relatively minor changes then the ecatx can generate electricity directly. Atleast that is what I interpret “close to the patent” to mean.

        His vision wouldn’t be my first choice, but if individual consumers can purchase an ecatx at some point then we need not follow it.

      • Omega Z

        Bob,
        I agree, this vision will not work. At least not outside the mega cities.
        IMO, Rossi should just develop an assortment of products & let those more knowledgeable in this area figure out how to deploy it. Which will vary from city to city & region.

        As to your peak demand, a grid only needs to meet peak demand for the community. Not everyone’s AC, refrigerator etc will be running simultaneously. However, If your off grid, then you need to meet your personal peak demand periods & such a system will actually cost you more for installed output & the wasted energy you don’t always need. Off grid will simply cost more.

        LESS TAXES: Read his post closely.
        Schools, Government buildings Etc, will have huge energy savings, thus less Taxes. Sounds Great. What Rossi fails to understand is “Government” will not reduce the taxes accordingly. If one was lucky, Government would delay a tax increase. But don’t hold your breath. The likely outcome is they will raise them even more. You have more money due to the energy savings.They want what you save.

        • Frank Acland

          Theoretically he is right. Think of all the savings that local, regional and national governments could realize if their energy costs were slashed. Military budgets too would be affected. Energy assistance programs to lower income people would be cheaper. If the tech could be used in transportation, then huge fuel savings would be realized for buses, trucks, police vehicles, etc.

          • Omega Z

            The Key is “Theoretically he is right.”
            This was what I was pointing out to Bob. But the Government will not reduce the tax rate & return this saving to the citizens. In fact, history says they will calculate you are saving $2000 a year and justify raising taxes to coup at least $1000 of your savings. I’ve watched their shenanigans for decades.

            A County night patrol was running a 50% deficit of a $200K dollar budget. They County proposed a 50 cents on $100 valuation tax. Only 25 cents would be collected to cover the short fall. The additional 25 cent per $100 would only be collected for asset(Cars etc.) replacement as & only when needed. Not annually. 30 minutes after the tax passed they announced- They would collect the full value & cover the full $200K annually thus transferring out the $100K originally in the budget to other departments.

            The State of Illinois raised income taxes by 50%. Earmarked to eliminate the deficit only to spend even more and still carrying the deficit. I’ve witnessed this dozens of times in different cities & states.

            A State that spends $8 Billion dollars on education enacts a lottery. The proceeds of which are to go to education.(It’s a good cause & people pass the vote) Lottery takes in a Billion$. The state budgets $7 Billion dollars then adds the Billion$ from the lottery. Still totals only $8 Billion. By slight of hand, they shifted the lottery proceeds to other departments.

            It’s highly probable there will be no tax savings. As I point out, they will likely justify a tax increase due to people saving on energy costs as they can afford it & the Government needs it. The Government track record speaks volumes.
            I really wish there was no need to be pessimistic, But….

        • f sedei

          It’s an ongoing battle, first against the cold fusion naysayer scientists and now, with the possibility of success, the Feds. The “Enemy Within”?

    • Observer

      Okay, each E-Cat X is producing 500 Watts of power (light+heat+electricity). 50 Watts of electrical power is used to maintain the E-Cat X reaction. 225 Watts are going to heat and 225 Watts are split between light and electricity. (A 100 Watt incandescent light bulb produces ~20 Watts of light and ~80 Watts of heat.) During the daytime less light and more electricity is needed. During the summer less heat is needed. The question is: Is the ratios between light. heat, and electricity determined during manufacturing or is it adjustable?

      • Axil Axil

        Its adjustable as per Rossi.

        • Roland

          It took ‘moments’ to apply an insight to the same ‘old’, or very similar, E-cat X reactor which then became adjustable for several variables; not just heat and/or electricity but voltage and amperage as well, and now it ‘throttles’ up and down rapidly.

          All in one day.

          In short Rossi had an insight into (a) fundamental mechanism(s) of LENR and when those were applied to the reactor new properties ’emerged’ immediately. There is a new understanding and a ‘new’ reactor.

          The other bombshell, although an aspiration rather than accomplished realization, pertains to the capital cost of reactor cores. For decades large scale conventional power plants have always cost right around $1.00/W to build as innovation and improved efficiency neutralized inflationary trends.

          Rossi proposes to sell bare bones reactors that cost $.05/W and have insignificant fuel costs; after you build your industrial scale $1.00/W plant you still have to string long cables and feed it something .

          P.S.

          Having read a few comments I realized that I’d read Rossi’s missive through my own lens; I thought that 50W, prorated, was devoted to public illumination (presumably LED) and that the remaining 450W was deliverable as electricity and/or heat on a demand basis to adjacent dwellings through buried infrastructure. (That does seem a bit complicated, but, after all, it’s a dream, and a pleasant one.)

          If this interpretation is correct there are no implications for system COP values in the received information.

    • Gerald

      Wake up mister Rossi. I believe your e-cats. But pay less tax???!!! In my country they just increased tax on gas with 32%. And why?? No explanation, nothing, they just did. With ecats it well be the same..

      • f sedei

        I agree about the taxes. But, the American public would be more than satisfied with a 30 or 50% cut in overall costs. Maybe that can be achieved.

  • Happy New Year all.

    • pelgrim108

      Happy New Year to you Barry and all the readers and writers of E-Cat World.

  • Happy New Year all.

    • pelgrim108

      Happy New Year to you Barry and all the readers and writers of E-Cat World.

  • Bob

    May 2016 be better for all than 2015. May 2016 see peace where much violence has erupted.
    May 2016 bring patience and understanding for one another. I wish all a Happy New Year
    .
    It is the first minutes of 2016…… and as in 2015 I will wait for meaningful news…. I await a message from Tom Darden.

  • Bob

    May 2016 be better for all than 2015. May 2016 see peace where much violence has erupted.
    May 2016 bring patience and understanding for one another. I wish all a Happy New Year
    .
    It is the first minutes of 2016…… and as in 2015 I will wait for meaningful news…. I await a message from Tom Darden.

  • clovis ray

    Hi. Guys, nice dream, Dr. R, you said once that a select few would be allowed to see the e-cat in operation, i know things have changed a lot since then, but is that visit still possible or maybe to your lab, for a private showing,with nda’s of course, this would please your loyal and dedicated fans.

  • clovis ray

    Hi. Guys, nice dream, Dr. R, you said once that a select few would be allowed to see the e-cat in operation, i know things have changed a lot since then, but is that visit still possible or maybe to your lab, for a private showing,with nda’s of course, this would please your loyal and dedicated fans.

  • LarryJ

    Electricity exits directly from the wafer. I guess that excludes theories about add on magnets and pv cells

    • Perhaps, but there is no indication in the patent drawings of where the electricity might be tapped, and how it is produced. The possibilities seem to be that either (1) current flow is induced (by EM fields generated by the ‘fuel’ layers?) directly into the steel sheets (I wonder if Rossi’s ‘inspiration’ was simply to connect meter leads to each end of one of the steel plates, or directly across a pair?), or (2) the ‘heater layer’ incorporates some kind of thermo-electric converter, or (3) there are additional parts in the e-cat x wafers (flat induction coil?) that are not shown in the patent drawings (2 and 3 would both be inconsistent with the ‘inspiration’ story), or (4) the inspiration was to measure induced current flow across the heater resistance while in SSM.

      I would like to have learned a little more about how it is possible to adjust the output ratio between electricity and heat. Possibly tapping current induced into the steel plates reduces heat generated by circulating eddy currents in the steel. On Edit: Hank Mills proposes another possibility further down the page that might answer this question.

      Omega Z has previously commented on the durability (or lack thereof) of a device running at 1400+ C and as AR has now confirmed that ‘e-cat x’ is constructed from alternating steel sheets per the patent application, I tend to agree. Even if the surfaces of the sheets are protected by the fuel deposition layers, it seems highly likely that the outer edges will oxidise progressively as any film coating would tend to spall off with time. Steel rarely fares well for any length of time under conditions like these, no matter how well it is protected.

      Oh well, I suppose we’ve learned just a little bit more about these devices. It seems unlikely though that any of this will be of much relevance for quite some time – there is the small matter of introducing industrial LENR technology first, and then of gaining safety certification for use of derived technology outside of industry – and then of winning the inevitable pitched battle with entrenched interests for control of cold fusion.

      I won’t be buying a white van just yet.

      http://www.wallpaperel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/new_year_eve_2016___happy_new_year_2016.jpg

      In the meantime, a happy and prosperous New Year to everyone here, and especially to Andrea Rossi, for (at the least) keeping us entertained and exercising the ‘little grey cells’ — and (hopefully) for changing the world.

      • Omega Z

        –>”I won’t be buying a white van just yet.”

        Agaricus___SERIOUSLY???
        Dang, I guess I picked a bad time to corner the market on white vans…. 🙁

        IMHO, I think Rossi is doing what many here at ECW tend to do.
        One Size Fits All. The deployment he envisions may work in the mega cities, but once outside them, the costs would be extremely prohibitive.

        I’m just thinking about the city, population 100K(don’t recall the name but it’s on the east coast) replaced a crumbling sewer system. Projected cost was several 100 million but 30 billion when completed. Or $300K per person. There was supposed to be an investigation, but never happened. This was 1 of several such cases.

        What you end up with costs so high, people abandon their homes, desert the city & move. Kind of what happened to Detroit city. Debts based on population of 1.8 million that declined to 650K. My girlfriend & I moved from a city because the $15 a month sewer bill jumped to $200 a month with the new sewer system. Can’t recall if that was based on 30 or 40 year payback.

        Rossi should probably leave the envisioning of the deployment of this technology to others to deal with. Every city would be different. All Rossi needs to do is provide a variety of products for people to select from.
        Just my 50 cents worth.

        • Agreed – deployment may not be his forte. As I’ve been saying for as long as I can remember, the real hope for cold fusion is that it escapes monopoly control at some point, and thousands of minds turn to its development and exploitation. This will probably only happen when someone (MFMP?) stumbles on the secrets of producing kW-level power output, and releases the core information into the public domain.

          If this happens some time soon then Rossi will be remembered because he showed that it could be done, and not because his company was the one that introduced the new age, just like Lenoir (IC engine), Tesla (AC power, etc.), the Wright brothers, Turing (programmable electronic computer), Cerf and Kahn (internet) before him.

        • Agreed – deployment may not be his forte. As I’ve been saying for as long as I can remember, the real hope for cold fusion is that it escapes monopoly control at some point, and thousands of minds turn to its development and exploitation. This will probably only happen when someone (MFMP?) stumbles on the secrets of producing kW-level power output, and releases the core information into the public domain.

          If this happens some time soon then Rossi will be remembered because he showed that it could be done, and not because his company was the one that introduced the new age, just like Lenoir (IC engine), Tesla (AC power, etc.), the Wright brothers, Turing (programmable electronic computer), Cerf and Kahn (internet) before him.

        • Local authorities or countries so indebted they have to keep high tax rates (France is at 57% of income, including deficit, 52% raw) will simply be deserted if there is no real advantage being there.

          Having good infrastructure is such asset, but paying the debt of previous generations is not.

          In france many people with talent (not wealthy people, who often know how to play with the game which is made for protecting installed people in their current situation…. France just prevent change) go abroad, to UK or farther.

          People more normal just go “dark” defrauding taxes. some say it is internal tax evasion.

          Some simply stop making effort as it is hopeless, and enjoy what they have.

          This was a theory of Laffer. France have proven it is real.

          if US government try to waste as much money as today, without the matching service, like paying back the debt, people will flee.

          today the infrastructure (energy, roads, laws, safety, entrepreneurial ecosystems) are good enough for people who stay.
          If state try to get as much money from LENR as they get from oil, people will not pay but flee.

          however if people see that they pay for a road (toll road) maybe they will accept to pay , but not taxes.
          same for school…

          Problem is some people are so desperate that they will not ask a decent enough wage, to be able to save money to pay school, health insurance, toll road.
          This is the problem, not that you have to pay for wwhat you use, and thus to manage it as if you pay with your own money.

          this is where basic income could be a way to manage taxes in a more intelligent way… it have many advantage for a “laisser-faire” supporter as for a “social-security” defender.

        • Local authorities or countries so indebted they have to keep high tax rates (France is at 57% of income, including deficit, 52% raw) will simply be deserted if there is no real advantage being there.

          Having good infrastructure is such asset, but paying the debt of previous generations is not.

          In france many people with talent (not wealthy people, who often know how to play with the game which is made for protecting installed people in their current situation…. France just prevent change) go abroad, to UK or farther.

          People more normal just go “dark” defrauding taxes. some say it is internal tax evasion.

          Some simply stop making effort as it is hopeless, and enjoy what they have.

          This was a theory of Laffer. France have proven it is real.

          if US government try to waste as much money as today, without the matching service, like paying back the debt, people will flee.

          today the infrastructure (energy, roads, laws, safety, entrepreneurial ecosystems) are good enough for people who stay.
          If state try to get as much money from LENR as they get from oil, people will not pay but flee.

          however if people see that they pay for a road (toll road) maybe they will accept to pay , but not taxes.
          same for school…

          Problem is some people are so desperate that they will not ask a decent enough wage, to be able to save money to pay school, health insurance, toll road.
          This is the problem, not that you have to pay for wwhat you use, and thus to manage it as if you pay with your own money.

          this is where basic income could be a way to manage taxes in a more intelligent way… it have many advantage for a “laisser-faire” supporter as for a “social-security” defender.

  • I think we need a product that a homeowner can purchase that produces heat for water and space heating plus electricity. For apartment buildings and industrial complexes, I think distributed heating works OK. For large scale electricity production, I think the heat should be used to run turbines to generate electricity and that can be combined with the directly produced electricity.

    I picture of the E-Cat-X would be helpful.

    • NT

      There are many folks and places that will not be able to go independent no matter the e-cat potentials, those folks will still need some kind of “distributed system” to tap into cheaply, IMHO…

    • Axil Axil

      A picture of the core

      http://i.imgur.com/hyzmaN7.png

      • Axil Axil

        Does anybody know how one gram of fuel can cover 2 square feet of steel plate? That sounds like a hard thing to do.

        • Ecco

          I would guess that some sort of thin film deposition process might be needed. It’s a “wafer” after all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I agree – and it fits with his original Italian patent stating the nickel was “Coated” on the inside of a copper tube and Cook’s assertion in the Cook/Rossi paper that the Nickel ash was “found to be encrusted on the internal surface of the reactor”

            I have imagined since the awarded patents release that the Nickel is deposited as a thin film, most likely on the outer most steel plate, but possibly both via PVD or CVD.

            Other possibilities are electroless plating and slurry and sintering.

          • Ecco

            I think the patent is generic enough to suit several completely different reactor concepts at the same time. For example, the paragraph referring to the heat treatment for drying nickel particles shouldn’t really matter if a thin film deposition process is used as the wafer references and measurements appear to imply. However, there’s no detail at all on how such film should be applied, or how/where LAH should be located in this case. On the other hand, reactor measurements and fuel composition are not set in stone and might be altered as needed. Platinum or Palladium may also be used, possibly even at the same time.

          • Valeriy Tarasov

            After reading the Rossi patent and his statement to fulfil the patent requirements for E-catX, I think that it is very likely he is using thermoelectric effect and he replaced the two thermally conducted layers (steel) 50 and 52 with layers of other materials (which he was looking for to withstand high temperature) to have thermoelectric effect from these two layers. At least, I would try this definitely.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Chemists often use commercially available solutions of lithium aluminum hydride in tetrahydrofuran (LAH in THF) so that a syringe can be used to remove a know amount of LAH. 26.3 milliliters of a 1 molar solution of LAH in THF would contain 1 gram of lithium aluminum hydride. The tetrahydrofuran solvent could be removed under vacuum leaving a thin film of LiAlH4 on the steel plate.

      • Optimist

        Do you believe that Rossi is backing out of the powder princip and aiming on a thin-film surface princip instead? That would eliminate one dimension in heat control and thermal flow and improve the controlability and could make sence especially if thermal hotpots and runaway was the initial problem. Would though reduce the maximum energy density I guess?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Hi Axil, I first saw this posted by Ecco, do you know who the original came from?

        • Ecco

          Actually, I made it.

          Here’s the original .svg file (the preview from Google Drive doesn’t look nice):
          https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7eIOSe9g5EnQ0hhbmNHdVZaWms/view

        • Stephen

          Much as I like the idea of a home unit taking care of all personal domestic energy needs, I think Andrea Rossi’s dream brings a lot of benefits at community level and also importantly benefits for the efficient distribution of the technology in large volume especially in the short term.

          There has been concern raised about the possibility of sudden disruption and change that this new technology would bring to society and how this could be handled. I think that this dream offers a way through the transition that would also make more efficient the adoption and development of this new technology. Many of the skills required for installation of these unit it’s woul I imagine revolve around services like electrical, plumbing and thermal distribution at least initially until the point where the devices and there peripheral components can be easily installed, replaced and repaired by anyone.

          During this transition phase utility companies could be well placed to distribute and maintain this technology. Quite possibly there existing network of facilities, components, maintenance control and planning could be adapted to this new technology and since they could buy and distribute on large scale economies of scale may also become an advantage… Personal domestic units may be easily available but utility companies that can distribute and maintain easily on large scale may be able to bring in cost reductions especially when the technology is new. Imagine 120000 lamp posts. Easily accessible to maintence, With 10000 units replaced a month in maintenance cycle. Those same utility companies could then also provide the skilled engineers and training for maintenance of home units.

          In time I suppose as the devices and peripheral equipment become smaller increasingly reliable and easy to replace by anyone or even automatically by machines, much like as happened with the home computer. May be then there will be a kind of reversal… Households providing excess energy to the community. But this process of transition using Utility companies could smooth the transition to the new technology at the same time as bringing advantages of economies of scale to bring down the initial costs.

    • Nigel Appleton

      I largely agree – but until we know just what Rossi’s method is of “direct” electricity generation, and how scaleable it is, we should keep an open mind as to the methods to be used in large-scale power generation.
      As it stands it seems possible that Rossi’s device is a combined heat/light/power generator

  • I think we need a product that a homeowner can purchase that produces heat for water and space heating plus electricity. For apartment buildings and industrial complexes, I think distributed heating works OK. For large scale electricity production, I think the heat should be used to run turbines to generate electricity and that can be combined with the directly produced electricity.

    I picture of the E-Cat-X would be helpful.

    • NT

      There are many folks and places that will not be able to go independent no matter the e-cat potentials, those folks will still need some kind of “distributed system” to tap into cheaply, IMHO…

      • invient

        I just can’t think of a case where a person or place wouldn’t be able to use local power generation over distributed transmission…

    • Axil Axil

      A picture of the core

      http://i.imgur.com/hyzmaN7.png

      • Axil Axil

        Does anybody know how one gram of fuel can cover 2 square feet of steel plate? That sounds like a hard thing to do.

        • Ecco

          I would guess that some sort of thin film deposition process might be needed. It’s a “wafer” after all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I agree – and it fits with his original Italian patent stating the nickel was “Coated” on the inside of a copper tube and Cook’s assertion in the Cook/Rossi paper that the Nickel ash was “found to be encrusted on the internal surface of the reactor”

            I have imagined since the awarded patents release that the Nickel is deposited as a thin film, most likely on the outer most steel plate, but possibly both via PVD or CVD.

            Other possibilities are electroless plating and slurry and sintering.

          • Ecco

            I think the patent is generic enough to suit several completely different reactor concepts at the same time. For example, the paragraph referring to the heat treatment for drying nickel particles shouldn’t really matter if a thin film deposition process is used as the wafer references and measurements appear to imply. However, there’s no detail at all on how such film should be applied, or how/where LAH should be located in this case. On the other hand, reactor measurements and fuel composition are not set in stone and might be altered as needed. Platinum or Palladium may also be used, possibly even at the same time.

          • Ecco

            I think the patent is generic enough to suit several completely different reactor concepts at the same time. For example, the paragraph referring to the heat treatment for drying nickel particles shouldn’t really matter if a thin film deposition process is used as the wafer references and measurements appear to imply. However, there’s no detail at all on how such film should be applied, or how/where LAH should be located in this case. On the other hand, reactor measurements and fuel composition are not set in stone and might be altered as needed. Platinum or Palladium may also be used, possibly even at the same time.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Chemists often use commercially available solutions of lithium aluminum hydride in tetrahydrofuran (LAH in THF) so that a syringe can be used to remove a know amount of LAH. 26.3 milliliters of a 1 molar solution of LAH in THF would contain 1 gram of lithium aluminum hydride. The tetrahydrofuran solvent could be removed under vacuum leaving a thin film of LiAlH4 on the steel plate.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Chemists often use commercially available solutions of lithium aluminum hydride in tetrahydrofuran (LAH in THF) so that a syringe can be used to remove a know amount of LAH. 26.3 milliliters of a 1 molar solution of LAH in THF would contain 1 gram of lithium aluminum hydride. The tetrahydrofuran solvent could be removed under vacuum leaving a thin film of LiAlH4 on the steel plate.

      • Optimist

        Do you believe that Rossi is backing out of the powder princip and aiming on a thin-film surface princip instead? That would eliminate one dimension in heat control and thermal flow and improve the controlability and could make sence especially if thermal hotpots and runaway was the initial problem. Would though reduce the maximum energy density I guess?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Hi Axil, I first saw this posted by Ecco, do you know who the original came from?

    • Nigel Appleton

      I largely agree – but until we know just what Rossi’s method is of “direct” electricity generation, and how scaleable it is, we should keep an open mind as to the methods to be used in large-scale power generation.
      As it stands it seems possible that Rossi’s device is a combined heat/light/power generator

  • nietsnie

    Well… that was anti-climactic. I left a party so that I could be available to read about what e-cat x is. I really don’t know anything more than I did yesterday.

    • mike wolf

      I suspect the dream was sort of cover for what he knows. So we may be a little closer, at least in my mind, than yesterday.

  • hempenearth

    Electricity from wafers from unrelated companies in Dublin and Miami, mmmm……

  • Axil Axil

    From: “In that town there were about 1 million lamps each of them of 500 watts, consuming about 50 watts; consequently, there were 450 MWh/h produced, of which about half were turned into heat ”

    input: 50 watts
    output: 500 watts
    COP: 10 (if not self powered.)

    Heat: 225 watts
    Electricity: 225 watts

    • Gerard McEk

      You are forgetting the light, which you may include in the heat. Would be interesting to know how much of the energy is visible light.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Self sustaining micro grid.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Congratulations on your achievement with the E-Cat X. It will be more than the Industrial Revolution, if it lives up to your description. If it does, it will save the world. If not, most of us are doomed. Please let it loose ASAP. The sooner it’s out there the better.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Congratulations on your achievement with the E-Cat X. It will be more than the Industrial Revolution, if it lives up to your description. If it does, it will save the world. If not, most of us are doomed. Please let it loose ASAP. The sooner it’s out there the better.

  • aljobo

    Until today I had not quite appreciated that we’ve moved from a sealed tube to a flat wafer. While something can probably be recycled, these wafers essentially become throwaway devices and the full wafer cost needs to be factored in on each “refill”.

    Rossi’s other major new bit of news of $50/kW is very exciting but needs to be coupled with a statement of durability. We’ve seen a degradation of performance on the 1MW plant at around 6500 hours. Putting these numbers in context:

    • 100 hours or 100 kWh @ $0.50/kWh is in the region of the most expensive electricity sources (e.g. German retail with all the renewable subsidies added on or diesel generators)

    • 1000 hours or $0.05/kWh is near the cheapest wholesale electricity prices (e.g. NW US hydropower)

    • 10000 hours would go to $0.005 or half a cent, a massive game changer for every application.

    In car applications using a high 400 Wh/mile number the above range would be $0.2 / mile to $0.002 / mile. If the power can be regulated as Rossi says any battery may only need to be a few kWh in size, say at 5 kWh @ $400/kWh = $2000, making it very competitive with even small ICE. The wafers could be swapped out at normal service intervals. All this assumes that the metal layers aren’t very heavy or bulky.

    Using very well established chip fabrication techniques is fantastic from a cost and scalability point of view and hopefully it will track the chip and solar industries’ cost and reliability curve over time so $50/kW may not even be the ultimate endpoint.

    • Frank Acland

      I think the current run of the E-Cat X reactors is probably approaching 1000 hours now. He said a few days ago that they had been running for a month. Only just recently started producing electricity, but I think they are still running on the same wafers.

      • aljobo

        Updating with Rossi’s statement of 130,000 hours runtime we get to a cost of 0.04 cents or almost too cheap to meter.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Thank you Dr Rossi, for allowing many people to hope through your dream, through your hard work and your steadfastedness.
    Thank you to those who have lent you an open hand or an open mind, who shall be rewarded for having believed in something that might transform this mess into a better world.
    Hoping that corruption in corporations (governments included), economic greed, lobbies, in general human behavioural characteristics and the human tendency towards malice, war and self destruction won’t shatter this vision.
    Hopefully, the ‘free market’ will fully reward your (and our own) hopes.
    I want 13kW in my home, $650 (per year? once-off for 10 years?) sounds like a bargain. With no government/electric/gas/fuel company taxing or controlling my consumption, that would really be a dream.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Thank you Dr Rossi, for allowing many people to hope through your dream, through your hard work and your steadfastedness.
    Thank you to those who have lent you an open hand or an open mind, who shall be rewarded for having believed in something that might transform this mess into a better world.
    Hoping that corruption in corporations (governments included), economic greed, lobbies, in general human behavioural characteristics and the human tendency towards malice, war and self destruction won’t shatter this vision.
    Hopefully, the ‘free market’ will fully reward your (and our own) hopes.
    I want 13kW in my home, $650 (per year? once-off for 10 years?) sounds like a bargain. With no government/electric/gas/fuel company taxing or controlling my consumption, that would really be a dream.

  • ecatworld

    Yes, I think you could be right there. The good news is that he has suddenly started thinking in terms of electrical production, rather than just heat, which is where everyone hoped we could get to. Now the concern about the expense and losses of steam turbines and Carnot efficiency can be pretty much set aside. He talks about 50 W consumption to make 500 W of electric output, which is COP 10 electric to electric.

  • theBuckWheat

    LENR in general and the Rossi line of E-Cats in particular are an amazing development in human history. The people who bring commercially viable uses of this technology to the market cannot be given enough honor and praise. May they also enjoy the wealth that they will create. This will make life better for all humanity in so many ways.

    We also have yet to see how those who vigorously work to stop human progress will react. They will certainly do so. Many people and non-profit organizations exist that have spent their lives opposing the use of petroleum as fuel and they have a well developed body of rhetoric and argument. They have a full catalog of imagery, such as the lone polar bear on a tiny ice chunk. You are killing the sweet polar bears every time you fill your car with gasoline. You must hate nature.

    All of these lies will be rendered moot when LENR becomes widely commercialized. But there will be new lies about LENR. It will be called dangerous for some reason that the ignorant public will swallow just as easily as they swallowed Michael Mann’s fraudulent hockey stick. (based on deliberately jiggered models). Since LENR promises to greatly reduce the need to burn something to generate energy (!!), it strikes directly at the need to do climate research and to develop horribly expensive wind energy. It even threatens the need for climate research itself. It also threatens the way in which quite a few Arab countries earn the money to pay for their food imports.

    So there are a lot of forces in the world that will be negatively affected by this wonderfully good thing. The counter-attack will begin very soon after it becomes commercially viable. May we have that debate and conflict sooner than later!

  • georgehants

    Wonderful New Year to the World.
    Wonderful if Mr. Rossi is genuine with all his reports of the New Fires.
    My only comment is it is time for him and everybody to end the silly capitalist propaganda that people need jobs.
    I would ask, what jobs are needed to produce and supply the basic needs services and agreed luxuries of all in a country?
    All other jobs are pointless and only necessary to keep this outdated, inefficient and unfair system continuing to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful.
    Without finance of any kind beyond a simple system of reward for efforts to a better society, millions would be out of work.
    Please do not reply negatively unless you can answer my point of, why have people working long hours and long years, when if only the necessary and desired work is equally shared then the hours worked by each would be very short.
    Please do not come back with abuse and brainless uninformed rubbish about communism, my comment is directly connected to the technology of Cold Fusion and Mr. Rossi’s statement, but it’s principle stands alone.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I would like to see a world where spending more time with your children and friends in outdoor pursuits like sitting on a beach / park enjoying the world, walking, Kayaking, non contact drone tourism over bio-diverse zones, better hair, better nails etc is enabled.

      Creative work like theatre and the arts in general, things to amuse, entertainment, health and wellbeing should be the core of future work and better more balanced food, clean water and fresh air for all.

      And also the love and respect of science, to engender the concept of continuous improvement in standard of life and efficiency. We all get only one life – it shouldn’t be working to exist – it should be about living to create and pursue positive interests with net benefit.

      I’d like to see us build a just civilisation that would be the envy of any alien that may chance upon us. One that would remove any possibility of radicalisation and hate due to lack of security or meeting of needs. Happy and content people don’t fight.

      • georgehants

        Bob, that is exactly what I an saying and obviously easily achieved without capitalism but a True democracy, not an Oligarchy that we have now.
        It is amazing that people are so easily fooled, exactly the same as 95% of scientists just blindly follow the propaganda that Cold Fusion is impossible against clear Evidence that it, in some form, is genuine.
        I dream of your vision of all the Wonderful things that free people could achieve when freed from mortgages, bills and the associated mental pressures associated with our insane system.
        Happy New Year.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I completely agree with true democracy – there is NOTHING to prevent that from happening now – except people wishing to keep power and control – all of the connected technology exists.

          I would countenance however that voting on complex matters be predicated on somehow ensuring voters understand the subject fully – this can be a challenge – I believe that armed with the right information and in a FAIR society/world – good decisions would be made.

          There is the challenge of awarding of pooled funds – since humans all think they are a special case.

          • georgehants

            Bob, many problems to achieve a free fair system, it just needs intelligent people to turn away from the brain-washing and look at Facts.
            We see in Cold Fusion the insanity of 30 years of delay from a profession that in a free society with all working for each other, would be looked at as a Wonderful opertunity for all scientists to help improve the World for all very quickly.
            A few people like yourself finding answers to those problems and not turning away with comments like it is a utopia etc,
            Intelligent people acting like thinking individuals and not programmed automatons following the tail of the sheep in front.

          • SG

            True democracies would be disastrous. Republics work better, IMHO.

          • bachcole

            You mean that human beings are imperfect and subject to all manner of hysteria and foolishness? How could you think such a thing?!?

          • Observer

            A true democracy without checks and balances to preserve the rights of the minority is no different than a lynch mob.

            In terms of morality, there is no difference between the strong taking from the weak and the many taking from the few.

            It all depends on whether you want a society were the ability to possess something is based on the ability to make or on the ability to take.

            If you take on the responsibility of providing and distributing resources without an exchange of value, you will inevitably be labeled the villain by the very people you are supporting. (Ask any parent of a teenager.)

          • Pipmon

            Admittedly a small sample size, but the experiment described here:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

            seems to suggest that most people are not inclined to simply sit back and become parasitic wards of the State when given more financial support from a government. Another interesting thing about this experiment is how it was terminated and all data shelved without looking at it by incoming conservative governments and how it was subsequently recovered 30 years later ( because nobody knew where the boxes of documents relating to the experiment had been shelved and no log had been made of their whereabouts by said governments) in serendipitous fashion when the boxes were earmarked for garbage disposal.
            I tend to think that that says it all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            These are the majority / minority issues I was alluding to in the challenges of voting.

          • Warthog

            The US Constitution fixed that problem with the requirement for wide and deep acceptance (super majority of 2/3’s of House and Senate and 3/4ths of state legislature) of changes to governance across both geographic area and populous.

            The Founding Fathers were very aware of the “tyranny of the majority” problem.

            Their fix worked so well that politicians have resorted to “bypassing” the voting requirements via the Supreme Court (which problem had already been foreseen and explicated by the “anti-Federalists”).

        • Nigel Appleton

          I think you should recognise that there are people living in the “system” who are not of the wealthy, yet are quite happy. For myself, I’ve achieved a good deal of fulfilment and happiness as an ordinary bloke, and even managed to accrue adequate wealth for the sere and yellow of my years by making and selling good quality products at honest prices in a free and open market. And my partners and I treated employees generously along the way – not to be patronising, but to recognise their contribution to the overall success of the enterprise. In another instance, when I worked for someone else for a while, I was not only paid a good salary, but was granted share options that survived my leaving that company, and (somewhat to my surprise) recently yielded a few tens of thousands of pounds.
          My point is that the system may be flawed, but it can be operated in such a way as to be beneficial to the less wealthy.
          People wishing for True Democracy should be very careful indeed about its implications

          • georgehants

            Nigel thank you for your view that in a free system is correctly allowed.
            When did your country last have an informed referendum asking the whole population without any politics, if they would like to be part of a system removing all finance and excessive wealth etc.
            A system where they would perhaps only have to work three days a week etc.
            Until an informed vote is given to a population then it is no democracy, but a laughable choice between usually two equally capitalistic dictatorships.
            You would agree I take it that such an informed democratic vote should be offered to the electorate, with complete censorship on any false information being preached?

          • Bob Greenyer

            For certain the system we have has worked well for many, but in India where only 2% pay tax – forcing 850million farmers out of self-sufficiency and into cities where there will never be enough historical type jobs is not a solution. In southern europe, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece nearly a majority of the the young are out of work, because there simply is not any, in addition to the increasing debts they have accrued to secure a decent job. How do these people get dignity.

            The kind of hard work, which I was well paid for, and which I started my business with 20 years ago is now drag and drop.

            Smart phone capabilities are destroying vast swathes of jobs – in the future, your phone will warn you of impending health problems and mitigation strategies based on vast datasets, well before you need to see a doctor – it will be monitoring you 24/7.

            There needs to be a new social contract – large swathes of people will need to feel fulfilled without having to moan about a daily grind, they will need to be comfortable with enjoying their life because the system will be different.

            I visited Yugoslavia some 34 years ago, they did not have enough jobs, so everyone got 50% of a job, but not morning/afternoon split… they would work for say 3 months on, 3 months off. They would get their salary paid every month… in the down time, they could travel, spend time with friends and family, improve their living arrangements or study.

            In the UK – house prices have been so inflated by easy credit that both the father and mother have to work – sometimes both doing 50% overtime, just to afford simple, small houses – with the bulk of their earnings feeding the interest monster that benefits those wealthy enough to hold bank shares. They have to put their kids into expensive childcare whilst they work and pay large taxes to enable those that cannot get a job to live off the state. This is a ridiculous situation, some people are having nothing but work and others get no ‘dignity’ – see the rising cost of benefits in the UK graph attached.

      • Agaricus

        As someone from an earlier generation, many of us thought exactly the same back in the sixties, when it was becoming clear that automation would (or at least should) have brought increased wealth that would allow more leisure time for personal development, music, arts and just plain enjoyment of life.

        As we know, all this extra productivity was subverted (mostly by members of my generation unfortunately) into extra profits and wealth for the few, while working hours remained constant, and then actually increased in many Western countries without any increase in income.

        Cold fusion will generate massive additional wealth, but history teaches that it will not find its way into the wallets of ordinary oiks.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The current crime is loading the new workers with huge debts whilst keeping them out of the unemployment statistics by making them think they need expensive college education in order to get a well paid (any) job.

          Much key learning in modern skills can now be done for just a few tens of dollars with on-line training – and this is set to accelerate. In fact, the best material for the most current web technologies is only practically available this way – but skills such as plumbing, bricklaying, electricians all have great courseware now – even these jobs will be mechanised at some point.

          Any static or slowly changing job, like accountancy and much of law will be increasingly codified and made into on-line services – these traditionally have been the gravy train jobs of the middle classes. Doctors work is increasingly being done by knowledge systems – by patients and doctors themselves and countries are moving their medical databases into big data analysis so very accurate diagnosis by machine will be possible – more than ever could be done by a trained physician of the past. Even many standard surgical operations like cataracts, transplants and gall bladder and melanoma removal will be mechanised.

          • Agaricus

            Unfortunately the abuse of younger people by unavoidable debt, unemployment, workplace exploitation and receding home ownership chances is accompanied by a degree of apathy which is hard to understand. I guess it has been a case of boiling the frogs slowly, to avoid any tipping points.

        • Observer

          Based on the massive variation in the average income of the top 1%, I would say that it is highly probable that the top 1% are not always the same people. The average person wants stability and a safe place to live their life and raise their children, The best of the top 1% take the risks that drive growth for everyone.

      • US_Citizen71

        I too would like to live in the Star Trek The Next Generation universe, but it is going to take a lot more than technological innovation to get there. We kill each other over disagreements in ideology routinely.

        The Shia and Sunni conflict boils down to who should have ascended the throne 600+ years ago, at this point who cares, but yet they still kill each other. There are many other examples including WWI which was essentially a family feud between monarchs and truly didn’t end until about a decade ago with the break up of Yugoslavia and end of the Serbian war.

        Then there is the social issues, women are still treated like slaves in large swaths of the world. They are subjected to routine torture like genital mutilation, traded like cattle and are at whims of the men that own them. They are even killed when they are unable to protect themselves from rape. Until all persons on this planet are treated as equals, with equal rights no amount of technology is going to bring the utopia that you both are looking for. In fact in may worsen the injustices as those in far away lands may stop caring what happens on the other-side of the globe when living a life of leisurely 5 hour work weeks punctuated by fulfillment of their every desire between work hours.

      • Stephen

        These thoughts from Bob and George and others are certainly thought provoking. Wouldn’t it be ironic if we discovered intelegent life elsewhere in the universe just at the point our society was developed enough along these lines and was ready to meet them 😉 The ideas of open science behind MFMP go along way I think to encourage us to think in these ways so that one day hopefully the society expressed here becomes possible. With the right technology and basic provision of needs to everyone along with the right support for services and encouragement and fulfilment of all kinds of creativity and innovation I hope it becomes a reality. In the right society just being part of something can be fulfilling I itself.

    • Mats002

      I share those goals and maybe, just maybe, the debt path we are already following is the solution in the end. QE – ‘printing money’ – which today is just adding some numbers on an Excel sheet at the federal or state bank office, might be the true solution because money will be cheaper as will the goods we buy for them. Deflation of anything you can buy and inflation of the numbers used to buy them.

      But QE alone will not do the trick. Combine long term QE with a basic income and of course the debt we all are in, private people, private companies and official states, will never ever be payed back to anyone.

      Some people will still be filthy rich in this scenario, but hey – if they can not use it for negative development then who cares? Some new laws might be needed for that.

      • Agaricus

        Perhaps Finland will be able to find a combination of ‘people’s’ QE and other reforms that will provide a model for the EU. At least they seem to be trying to find an alternative, unlike the rest of Europe which seems content to use German-led ‘austerity’ to grind the peasants into the dirt in true central banker style.

        http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/12/finland-basic-income-experiment-what-we-know/

        • Ted-X

          Also Sweden and Switzerland (to some extend) could serve as models. Some economical reforms by so called socialists (hyphenated) worked very well (6% profit, no more, for the enterprises, and excellent wages for the workers) but they made horribly wrong things in other areas and they were too nationalistic, so nobody analyzes their economical achievements. I am not supporting them, but I am saying that analysis of their extremely successful economical experiment aspect deserves some attention. The reforms were done within the capitalistic system.

      • georgehants

        Mats the trillions of dept is an illusion that could destroy the capitalist World.
        Remove today all finance and paper debt and then there is no boom or bust, no bad times, only needed and agreed production and manpower is necessary with small variations on population growth or reduction.
        It is all smoke and mirrors, just like the Wizard of Oz.

    • Warthog

      Uh, because capitalism works, George. And it works better than any other system thus far devised by the human brain, as proven by the historical track record. Unless you can explain what system you propose that will work better?? Asking meaningless questions and making unsupported statements does nothing to advance the discussion. Explain how your “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” is set up and how it will work.

      • georgehants

        Your comment shows a complete lack of reading of the many comments on this subject.
        There has been no system tailored to modern production that has been tried.
        Please do not try to create a circular debunkers argument.
        if you cannot understand my point that ——–
        “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society”
        Then I or nobody can help you.
        If you find you are unable to understand the subject as a whole then probably best to keep away from it.

        • Warthog

          I’ve read a whole lot of your comments, and they elaborate nothing. They are essentially meaningless generalizations, just like the one on this thread.

          The phrase “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” has zero content without defining the terms, especially “simple system”…..WHAT “simple system”??? It is at that last point that all your posts enter the “fail” zone. How does this “simple system” work??

          Like it or not, free enterprise capitalism has thus far worked better than any other system devised by man. Socialism of many flavors has been tried over and over and has failed in every case. These are empirical facts.
          Why will your (undefined) system succeed where all the others have failed?

          • georgehants

            As I wrote above if you are unable to read the comments in this string or understand the concept, I cannot help you.
            Goodbye

          • Warthog

            I can read the comments just fine…..the problem is that you have failed to define “the concept” in any meaningful way. You ALWAYS dodge the issue exactly as you have here.

            But I suggest again that you simply stick to LENR and take the politics/economics to another forum,

      • clovis ray

        YEP, Free bubbleup, and rainbow stew,

    • Alain Samoun

      “continuing to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful”
      LENR as medicine for our society:
      Privilege, Pathology and Power
      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/opinion/privilege-pathology-and-power.html?_r=0

      • LarryJ

        I am not an American but I think the American system of lobbying seriously shifts power away from the people and into the hands of the elite. The Canadian system (I’m Canadian) imposes strict limits on campaign contributions by individuals or corporations. Individuals/corporations can contribute $1500. Candidates can contribute $5000 to their own campaign and the law is strictly enforced. As you might imagine this greatly deepens the gene pool that can be drawn on to lead the nation and significant funds can only be raised if you have a large following of ordinary citizens willing to part with some cash. Lobbying still exists but arguments are more of the “Helping our industry would be best for the country and jobs” and is not accompanied by a gigantic campaign contribution. We still get elites from time to time. Our current Prime Minister is the son of a very popular and controversial Prime Minister from the 70’s and his family is wealthy but it wasn’t his wealth that won the day. It was his name, his ideas, his youth and his great hair style.

        http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=lim/post2015&document=index&lang=e

    • Albert D. Kallal

      > supply the basic needs services and
      agreed luxuries of all in a country?

      Agreed? How, and by who and by what standards?

      So we both agree on that we like high quality steak and taking out beautiful women, we all agree on this? The problem of course is then you have to implement a system to FORCIBILITY take away my bottles of expensive wine and you ALSO have to implement a system to take away my beautiful woman.

      Of course the ONLY way to do the above is to build a system that runs towards the LOWEST common view. Some people inplace of that nice steak dinner might want to go out to the football game (and as a result the football player gets paid millions). You now going to agree that everyone has a right to attend that football game? (but forgetting there are limited seats to the stadium, and there also limited numbers of that great
      wine). Or do you degree that such a luxury is NOT to be had by anyone? (that
      goes for women, or maybe watching monster trucks?). Who says any of this is “necessary”, but it such as the heck can be fun and enjoyable! Its called being alive and living and enjoying life.

      You making a big long post but “mulling” over the issue of “agreed”. The only way to have such an agreement is to FORCE AND take away that decision from people (and only way to do that is to take away rights – aka communism/socialism).

      So who’s going to make this agreement?

      How you going to achieve such an agreeing?
      I can EASY agree we should all have the luxury of a beautiful house with a swimming pool. And even worse is many though jealously and envy will NOT want anyone to have such a luxury if they can’t have the luxury for themselves! (so now you going to outlaw envy in society? Or make a law to take away my beautiful women that many envy and want?).

      > desired work is equally shared

      How you going to define desired work?

      You going to force me to become a movie star because that is desired work?

      How can you share work? We going to take someone off the street and have him do part time brain surgery at the hospital? And if there not enough brain surgeons in town, then are you going to force someone who is terrible at brain surgery to become one? And who and how are you going to force the decision on who needs that brain surgery?
      And who you going to force the decision on of taking away their great bottle of wine?

      The only way to make such an agreement is to take away YOUR choice and rights – that means loss freedom which is the communist and socialist that you REQUIRE to implement your “agreeing” upon system.

      So the only way to FORCE your agreeing on everyone is to take away everyone’s choice. So we right back to a system that has to take away your choices and freedoms. That called socialism/communism.

      Maybe the person wants to grow potatoes because they like them. But now you going to declare the farmer MUST grow corn because that’s the agreement of everyone?

      You have to explain how you going to force such agreeing upon society without forcibly takin away people’s rights, property and even their women if you think beautiful women are a luxury that everyone agrees upon.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada
      kallal@msn.com

  • georgehants

    Wonderful New Year to the World.
    Wonderful if Mr. Rossi is genuine with all his reports of the New Fires.
    My only comment is it is time for him and everybody to end the silly capitalist propaganda that people need jobs.
    I would ask, what jobs are needed to produce and supply the basic needs services and agreed luxuries of all in a country?
    All other jobs are pointless and only necessary to keep this outdated, inefficient and unfair system continuing to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful.
    Without finance of any kind beyond a simple system of reward for efforts to a better society, millions would be out of work.
    Please do not reply negatively unless you can answer my point of, why have people working long hours and long years, when if only the necessary and desired work is equally shared then the hours worked by each would be very short?
    Please do not come back with abuse and brainless uninformed rubbish about communism. My comment is directly connected to the technology of Cold Fusion and Mr. Rossi’s statement, but it’s principle stands alone.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I would like to see a world where spending more time with your children and friends in outdoor pursuits like sitting on a beach / park enjoying the world, walking, Kayaking, non contact drone tourism over bio-diverse zones, better hair, better nails etc is enabled.

      Creative work like theatre and the arts in general, things to amuse, entertainment, health and wellbeing should be the core of future work and better more balanced food, clean water and fresh air for all.

      And also the love and respect of science, to engender the concept of continuous improvement in standard of life and efficiency. We all get only one life – it shouldn’t be working to exist – it should be about living to create and pursue positive interests with net benefit.

      I’d like to see us build a just civilisation that would be the envy of any alien that may chance upon us. One that would remove any possibility of radicalisation and hate due to lack of security or meeting of needs. Happy and content people don’t fight.

      • georgehants

        Bob, that is exactly what I an saying and obviously easily achieved without capitalism but a True democracy, not an Oligarchy that we have now.
        It is amazing that people are so easily fooled, exactly the same as 95% of scientists just blindly follow the propaganda that Cold Fusion is impossible against clear Evidence that it, in some form, is genuine.
        I dream of your vision of all the Wonderful things that free people could achieve when freed from mortgages, bills and the associated mental pressures associated with our insane system.
        Happy New Year.

        • Bob Greenyer

          I completely agree with true democracy – there is NOTHING to prevent that from happening now – except people wishing to keep power and control – all of the connected technology exists.

          I would countenance however that voting on complex matters be predicated on somehow ensuring voters understand the subject fully – this can be a challenge – I believe that armed with the right information and in a FAIR society/world – good decisions would be made.

          There is the challenge of awarding of pooled funds – since humans all think they are a special case.

          • georgehants

            Bob, many problems to achieve a free fair system, it just needs intelligent people to turn away from the brain-washing and look at Facts.
            We see in Cold Fusion the insanity of 30 years of delay from a profession that in a free society with all working for each other, would be looked at as a Wonderful opertunity for all scientists to help improve the World for all very quickly.
            A few people like yourself finding answers to those problems and not turning away with dumb comments like it is a utopia etc,
            Intelligent people acting like thinking individuals and not programmed automatons following the tail of the sheep in front.

          • SG

            True democracies would be disastrous. Republics work better, IMHO.

          • bachcole

            You mean that human beings are imperfect and subject to all manner of hysteria and foolishness? How could you think such a thing?!?

          • bachcole

            You mean that human beings are imperfect and subject to all manner of hysteria and foolishness? How could you think such a thing?!?

          • SG

            True democracies would be disastrous. Republics work better, IMHO.

          • Observer

            A true democracy without checks and balances to preserve the rights of the minority is no different than a lynch mob.

            In terms of morality, there is no difference between the strong taking from the weak and the many taking from the few.

            It all depends on whether you want a society were the ability to possess something is based on the ability to make or on the ability to take.

            If you take on the responsibility of providing and distributing resources without an exchange of value, you will inevitably be labeled the villain by the very people you are supporting. (Ask any parent of a teenager.)

          • Observer

            A true democracy without checks and balances to preserve the rights of the minority is no different than a lynch mob.

            In terms of morality, there is no difference between the strong taking from the weak and the many taking from the few.

            It all depends on whether you want a society were the ability to possess something is based on the ability to make or on the ability to take.

            If you take on the responsibility of providing and distributing resources without an exchange of value, you will inevitably be labeled the villain by the very people you are supporting. (Ask any parent of a teenager.)

          • bachcole

            The assumption the human beings are inherently good and that it is society or the system that screws people up is the problem. People who believe thusly think that if they construct a perfect system (out of imperfect people) that every thing will become like paradise on Earth. This is why liberals hate conservatives so much and think that they are evil. Conservatives simply have a better grasp of what it means to be human, which is to have a lot of imperfections.

            I have plenty of imperfections, and yet I cannot see any way that society foisted these imperfections on me. Society is definitely flawed, and I strive mightily to improve it, particularly in the arena of health, but I know in my heart of hearts that I would still be angry, lustful, selfish, etc. even if all of the changes I want to see in society were to become true. In fact, if I were the leader of the movement that accomplished these changes, I am sure that I would take advantage of this leadership role for selfish ends.

          • Pipmon

            Hmmm,
            I don’t believe any dogmatic point of view was expressed in either my comments or the article I cited (unless of course you consider my pointing out that the Liberals initiated it and the Conservatives ended it immediately when they came to power and ‘buried’ the results is more than a factual statement). What is given in the article are simple statistical facts gleaned from the data obtained in what can only be described as a pioneering and elaborate social experiment and the only one of its kind that I am aware of. It was not perfect by any means of course but it was a relatively straightforward and reasonably structured experiment lasting over five years and involving what I would statistically expect to be a fairly representative and sizable group of people in a small city.
            One may dispute the facts on the basis of technical errors in sample size, or sample bias, etc.. even maybe the analysis and interpretation of the results, but such arguments should be well supported by countervailing experiments and/or pertinent references to the data presented.
            And those facts, unless you deny their validity without rhyme or reason, quite simply run counter to the notion that people would generally abuse such a system or become ‘shifty layabouts’ only trying to avoid work and profit at the expense of others. Nobody is saying we would become angels but apparently neither do we become devils.

          • bachcole

            The assumption the human beings are inherently good and that it is society or the system that screws people up is the problem. People who believe thusly think that if they construct a perfect system (out of imperfect people) that every thing will become like paradise on Earth. This is why liberals hate conservatives so much and think that they are evil. Conservatives simply have a better grasp of what it means to be human, which is to have a lot of imperfections.

            I have plenty of imperfections, and yet I cannot see any way that society foisted these imperfections on me. Society is definitely flawed, and I strive mightily to improve it, particularly in the arena of health, but I know in my heart of hearts that I would still be angry, lustful, selfish, etc. even if all of the changes I want to see in society were to become true. In fact, if I were the leader of the movement that accomplished these changes, I am sure that I would take advantage of this leadership role for selfish ends.

          • Pipmon

            Admittedly a small sample size, but the experiment described here:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

            seems to suggest that most people are not inclined to simply sit back and become parasitic wards of the State when given more financial support from a government. Another interesting thing about this experiment is how it was terminated and all data shelved without looking at it by incoming conservative governments and how it was subsequently recovered 30 years later ( because nobody knew where the boxes of documents relating to the experiment had been shelved and no log had been made of their whereabouts by said governments) in serendipitous fashion when the boxes were earmarked for garbage disposal.
            I tend to think that that says it all.

          • Pipmon

            Admittedly a small sample size, but the experiment described here:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

            seems to suggest that most people are not inclined to simply sit back and become parasitic wards of the State when given more financial support from a government. Another interesting thing about this experiment is how it was terminated and all data shelved without looking at it by incoming conservative governments and how it was subsequently recovered 30 years later ( because nobody knew where the boxes of documents relating to the experiment had been shelved and no log had been made of their whereabouts by said governments) in serendipitous fashion when the boxes were earmarked for garbage disposal.
            I tend to think that that says it all.

          • Bob Greenyer

            These are the majority / minority issues I was alluding to in the challenges of voting.

          • Warthog

            The US Constitution fixed that problem with the requirement for wide and deep acceptance (super majority of 2/3’s of House and Senate and 3/4ths of state legislature) of changes to governance across both geographic area and populous.

            The Founding Fathers were very aware of the “tyranny of the majority” problem.

            Their fix worked so well that politicians have resorted to “bypassing” the voting requirements via the Supreme Court (which problem had already been foreseen and explicated by the “anti-Federalists”).

        • Nigel Appleton

          I think you should recognise that there are people living in the “system” who are not of the wealthy, yet are quite happy. For myself, I’ve achieved a good deal of fulfilment and happiness as an ordinary bloke, and even managed to accrue adequate wealth for the sere and yellow of my years by making and selling good quality products at honest prices in a free and open market. And my partners and I treated employees generously along the way – not to be patronising, but to recognise their contribution to the overall success of the enterprise. In another instance, when I worked for someone else for a while, I was not only paid a good salary, but was granted share options that survived my leaving that company, and (somewhat to my surprise) recently yielded a few tens of thousands of pounds.
          My point is that the system may be flawed, but it can be operated in such a way as to be beneficial to the less wealthy.
          People wishing for True Democracy should be very careful indeed about its implications

          • georgehants

            Nigel thank you for your view that in a free system is correctly allowed.
            I am pleased you have gained from the system, I am concerned with those that do not or could gain more.
            When did your country last have an informed referendum asking the whole population without any politics, if they would like to be part of a system removing all finance and excessive wealth etc.
            A system where they would perhaps only have to work three days a week etc.
            Until an informed vote is given to a population then it is no democracy, but a laughable choice between usually two equally capitalistic dictatorships.
            You would agree I take it that such an informed democratic vote should be offered to the electorate, with complete censorship on any false information being preached by the capitalist controlled media.

          • Edac

            Who would be the arbitrator of which information is true, and which is false?

          • Bob Greenyer

            For certain the system we have has worked well for many, but in India where only 2% pay tax – forcing 850million farmers out of self-sufficiency and into cities where there will never be enough historical type jobs is not a solution. In southern europe, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece nearly a majority of the the young are out of work, because there simply is not any, in addition to the increasing debts they have accrued to secure a decent job. How do these people get dignity.

            The kind of hard work, which I was well paid for, and which I started my business with 20 years ago is now drag and drop.

            Smart phone capabilities are destroying vast swathes of jobs – in the future, your phone will warn you of impending health problems and mitigation strategies based on vast datasets, well before you need to see a doctor – it will be monitoring you 24/7.

            There needs to be a new social contract – large swathes of people will need to feel fulfilled without having to moan about a daily grind, they will need to be comfortable with enjoying their life because the system will be different.

            I visited Yugoslavia some 34 years ago, they did not have enough jobs, so everyone got 50% of a job, but not morning/afternoon split… they would work for say 3 months on, 3 months off. They would get their salary paid every month… in the down time, they could travel, spend time with friends and family, improve their living arrangements or study.

            In the UK – house prices have been so inflated by easy credit that both the father and mother have to work – sometimes both doing 50% overtime, just to afford simple, small houses – with the bulk of their earnings feeding the interest monster that benefits those wealthy enough to hold bank shares. They have to put their kids into expensive childcare whilst they work and pay large taxes to enable those that cannot get a job to live off the state. This is a ridiculous situation, some people are having nothing but work and others get no ‘dignity’ – see the rising cost of benefits in the UK graph attached.

          • good posts Bob. may i add that a guaranteed annual income is a must have in the 21st century.

          • Observer

            Guaranteed annual income only works when there is no shortage of resources. Otherwise, prices will rise to determine the “haves” and “have-nots”.

          • Observer

            Guaranteed annual income only works when there is no shortage of resources. Otherwise, prices will rise to determine the “haves” and “have-nots”.

          • I don’t follow you. In all the reading I’ve done on the subject it has never come up that “prices will rise.” I say we try it and see what happens. Where it has been tried it’s worked extremely well.

            On a moral basis, nobody should be denied food, shelter, clothing, or healthcare just because there are fewer and fewer jobs that provide a livable wage. In a world of high and growing abundance – such as this one – these basic necessities of modern life above should be human rights not privileges.

            And don’t bother speaking next about the moral hazards of not having to work to afford a decent/comfortable life. That’s just misplaced dogma. The real and most tangible moral argument is for reducing suffering and poverty. Society wins when poverty is eliminated.

            And there is a strong utilitarian basis behind it. A basic income also is much more efficient than the complicated, means tested bureaucratic programs we have now. A basic income supports the tenants of liberty and freedom. A well designed system has no restrictions on how you spend the money. And it must be universal.

            Meanwhile, for all practical purposes there is no real shortage of resources. The world is awash in wealth and resources. It’s just distributed very poorly. And if LENR technologies can go to market successfully and dramatically reduce the cost of energy we can significantly increase the recycling of materials which will provide even more affordable goods/resources to the masses. Recycling takes a fair bit of energy and this energy cost is a barrier to a cleaner and more equitable world.

          • Observer

            Supply and Demand. If there is more demand than supply, how is it decided who gets what they want and who does not? Either you have free trade and it goes to the highest bidder, or you have power brokers engaged in favoritism.

            If everyone has a guaranteed income and no one decides to work, shortages will be inevitable.

          • most people of working age will still decide to work. the guaranteed income would just cover basic needs, replacing all other social programs.

          • I don’t follow you. In all the reading I’ve done on the subject it has never come up that “prices will rise.” I say we try it and see what happens. Where it has been tried it’s worked extremely well.

            On a moral basis, nobody should be denied food, shelter, clothing, or healthcare just because there are fewer and fewer jobs that provide a livable wage. In a world of high and growing abundance – such as this one – these basic necessities of modern life above should be human rights not privileges.

            And don’t bother speaking next about the moral hazards of not having to work to afford a decent/comfortable life. That’s just misplaced dogma. The real and most tangible moral argument is for reducing suffering and poverty. Society wins when poverty is eliminated.

            And there is a strong utilitarian basis behind it. A basic income also is much more efficient than the complicated, means tested bureaucratic programs we have now. A basic income supports the tenants of liberty and freedom. A well designed system has no restrictions on how you spend the money. And it must be universal.

            Meanwhile, for all practical purposes there is no real shortage of resources. The world is awash in wealth and resources. It’s just distributed very poorly. And if LENR technologies can go to market successfully and dramatically reduce the cost of energy we can significantly increase the recycling of materials which will provide even more affordable goods/resources to the masses. Recycling takes a fair bit of energy and this energy cost is a barrier to a cleaner and more equitable world.

          • Bob Greenyer

            even if it is part paid on non-transferrable food stamps.

          • Bob Greenyer

            even if it is part paid on non-transferrable food stamps.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Attached for example is a graph that shows that a family buying a home pre-1985 would only require 1 adult to work meaning the other could cover house improvements, home economics, family planning (not just number of children, but activity planning for well-being), child care, key worker emotional support etc. Now these pre 85 families will have paid off their mortgage.

            Up until a few years ago in the UK – two full time salaries would still leave the family worse off financially without all the benefits of only one parent working. This is reflected in the collapse in ability of the younger generations to buy a home, because they cannot raise a mortgage – and home renting is mostly even more expensive and insecure (a landlord can kick you out at a months notice) and demeaning (you are restricted in what you can do to a property).

            Moving forward – the average UK university leaver of the future will have in excess of £50,000 of debt, no better job prospects and all of the downward economic opportunities that the 1985+ generations have experienced. Making it more difficult to start a family will mean older parents.

          • good posts Bob. may i add that a guaranteed annual income is a must have in the 21st century.

      • As someone from an earlier generation, many of us thought exactly the same way back in the sixties and seventies, when it was becoming clear that automation would (or at least should) have brought increased wealth that would allow more leisure time for personal development, music, arts and just plain enjoyment of life.

        As we know now, all the extra productivity created by automation and then computerisation was subverted (mostly by members of my generation unfortunately) into extra profits and wealth for the few, while working hours remained constant, and then actually increased in many Western countries (although without any significant increase in average income). The 2008 collapse was used to justify subsequent ‘austerity’ measures in Europe, which have now – as intended – increased the wealth gap to an obscene and unsupportable level.

        http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20Shot%202013-03-08%20at%2011.36.19%20AM.png

        http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speedup-americans-working-harder-charts

        Cold fusion will generate massive additional wealth, but recent history teaches that it will not find its way into the wallets of ordinary oiks without profound socioeconomic change (revolution) of which there is very little sign.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The current crime is loading the new workers with huge debts whilst keeping them out of the unemployment statistics by making them think they need expensive college education in order to get a well paid (any) job.

          Much key learning in modern skills can now be done for just a few tens of dollars with on-line training – and this is set to accelerate. In fact, the best material for the most current web technologies is only practically available this way – but skills such as plumbing, bricklaying, electricians all have great courseware now – even these jobs will be mechanised at some point.

          Any static or slowly changing job, like accountancy and much of law will be increasingly codified and made into on-line services – these traditionally have been the gravy train jobs of the middle classes. Doctors work is increasingly being done by knowledge systems – by patients and doctors themselves and countries are moving their medical databases into big data analysis so very accurate diagnosis by machine will be possible – more than ever could be done by a trained physician of the past. Even many standard surgical operations like cataracts, transplants and gall bladder and melanoma removal will be mechanised.

          • Unfortunately the abuse of younger people through debt, unemployment, shrinking social benefits, ‘zero hours’ contracts, unpaid ‘internships’ and other workplace exploitation, plus receding home ownership chances is accompanied by a degree of apathy which is hard to understand. I guess it has been a case of boiling the frogs slowly, to avoid any tipping points.

          • Unfortunately the abuse of younger people through debt, unemployment, shrinking social benefits, ‘zero hours’ contracts, unpaid ‘internships’ and other workplace exploitation, plus receding home ownership chances is accompanied by a degree of apathy which is hard to understand. I guess it has been a case of boiling the frogs slowly, to avoid any tipping points.

        • Observer

          Based on the massive variation in the average income of the top 1%, I would say that it is highly probable that the top 1% are not always the same people. The average person wants stability and a safe place to live their life and raise their children, The best of the top 1% take the risks that drive growth for everyone.

        • Observer

          Based on the massive variation in the average income of the top 1%, I would say that it is highly probable that the top 1% are not always the same people. The average person wants stability and a safe place to live their life and raise their children, The best of the top 1% take the risks that drive growth for everyone.

      • US_Citizen71

        I too would like to live in the Star Trek The Next Generation universe, but it is going to take a lot more than technological innovation to get there. We kill each other over disagreements in ideology routinely.

        The Shia and Sunni conflict boils down to who should have ascended the throne 600+ years ago, at this point who cares, but yet they still kill each other. There are many other examples including WWI which was essentially a family feud between monarchs and truly didn’t end until about a decade ago with the break up of Yugoslavia and end of the Serbian war.

        Then there is the social issues, women are still treated like slaves in large swaths of the world. They are subjected to routine torture like genital mutilation, traded like cattle and are at whims of the men that own them. They are even killed when they are unable to protect themselves from rape. Until all persons on this planet are treated as equals, with equal rights no amount of technology is going to bring the utopia that you both are looking for. In fact in may worsen the injustices as those in far away lands may stop caring what happens on the other-side of the globe when living a life of leisurely 5 hour work weeks punctuated by fulfillment of their every desire between work hours.

        • bachcole

          I have been saying this for literally years, but the economic determinists keep telling me that when everyone gets their free beers that everything will be hunky dory.

          • clovis ray

            YEP, Free bubbleup, and rainbow stew,

          • clovis ray

            YEP, Free bubbleup, and rainbow stew,

        • bachcole

          I have been saying this for literally years, but the economic determinists keep telling me that when everyone gets their free beers that everything will be hunky dory.

      • Stephen

        These thoughts from Bob and George and others are certainly thought provoking. Wouldn’t it be ironic if we discovered intelligent life elsewhere in the universe just at the point our society was developed enough along these lines and was ready to meet them 😉 The ideas of open science behind MFMP go along way I think to encourage us to think in these ways so that one day hopefully the society expressed here becomes possible. With the right technology and basic provision of needs to everyone along with the right support for services and encouragement and fulfilment of all kinds of creativity and innovation I hope it becomes a reality. In the right society just being part of something can be fulfilling in itself.

      • Stephen

        These thoughts from Bob and George and others are certainly thought provoking. Wouldn’t it be ironic if we discovered intelligent life elsewhere in the universe just at the point our society was developed enough along these lines and was ready to meet them 😉 The ideas of open science behind MFMP go along way I think to encourage us to think in these ways so that one day hopefully the society expressed here becomes possible. With the right technology and basic provision of needs to everyone along with the right support for services and encouragement and fulfilment of all kinds of creativity and innovation I hope it becomes a reality. In the right society just being part of something can be fulfilling in itself.

    • Mats002

      I share those goals and maybe, just maybe, the debt path we are already following is the solution in the end. QE – ‘printing money’ – which today is just adding some numbers on an Excel sheet at the federal or state bank office, might be the true solution because money will be cheaper as will the goods we buy for them. Deflation of anything you can buy and inflation of the numbers used to buy them.

      But QE alone will not do the trick. Combine long term QE with a basic income and of course the debt we all are in, private people, private companies and official states, will never ever be payed back to anyone.

      Some people will still be filthy rich in this scenario, but hey – if they can not use it for negative development then who cares? Some new laws might be needed for that.

      • Perhaps Finland will be able to find a combination of ‘people’s’ QE and other reforms that will provide a model for the EU. At least they seem to be trying to find an alternative, unlike the rest of Europe which seems content to continue with German-led ‘austerity’ to grind the peasants into the dirt in true central banker style.

        http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/12/finland-basic-income-experiment-what-we-know/

        • Ted-X

          Also Sweden and Switzerland (to some extend) could serve as models. Some economical reforms by so called socialists (hyphenated) worked very well (6% profit, no more, for the enterprises, and excellent wages for the workers) but they made horribly wrong things in other areas and they were too nationalistic, so nobody analyzes their economical achievements. I am not supporting them, but I am saying that analysis of their extremely successful economical experiment aspect deserves some attention. The reforms were done within the capitalistic system.

          • bachcole

            Putting countries on a continuum from capitalist to communist is buying into the Marxist doctrine and misses some very important points, as alluded to by you, Ted-X. The Soviet Union was born in vicious oppression and hatred, and their government continued that hatred for most their lives. Sweden did not have even close to that level of hatred, and for my entire life I considered Sweden to be a good country and an ally of the USA.

      • Perhaps Finland will be able to find a combination of ‘people’s’ QE and other reforms that will provide a model for the EU. At least they seem to be trying to find an alternative, unlike the rest of Europe which seems content to continue with German-led ‘austerity’ to grind the peasants into the dirt in true central banker style.

        http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/12/finland-basic-income-experiment-what-we-know/

      • georgehants

        Mats the trillions of dept is an illusion that could destroy the capitalist World.
        Remove today all finance and paper debt and then there is no boom or bust, no bad times, only needed and agreed production and manpower is necessary with small variations on population growth or reduction.
        It is all smoke and mirrors, just like the Wizard of Oz.

      • georgehants

        Mats the trillions of dept is an illusion that could destroy the capitalist World.
        Remove today all finance and paper debt and then there is no boom or bust, no bad times, only needed and agreed production and manpower is necessary with small variations on population growth or reduction.
        It is all smoke and mirrors, just like the Wizard of Oz.

    • Mats002

      I share those goals and maybe, just maybe, the debt path we are already following is the solution in the end. QE – ‘printing money’ – which today is just adding some numbers on an Excel sheet at the federal or state bank office, might be the true solution because money will be cheaper as will the goods we buy for them. Deflation of anything you can buy and inflation of the numbers used to buy them.

      But QE alone will not do the trick. Combine long term QE with a basic income and of course the debt we all are in, private people, private companies and official states, will never ever be payed back to anyone.

      Some people will still be filthy rich in this scenario, but hey – if they can not use it for negative development then who cares? Some new laws might be needed for that.

    • Warthog

      Uh, because capitalism works, George. And it works better than any other system thus far devised by the human brain, as proven by the historical track record. Unless you can explain what system you propose that will work better?? Asking meaningless questions and making unsupported statements does nothing to advance the discussion. Explain how your “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” is set up and how it will work.

    • Warthog

      Uh, because capitalism works, George. And it works better than any other system thus far devised by the human brain, as proven by the historical track record. Unless you can explain what system you propose that will work better?? Asking meaningless questions and making unsupported statements does nothing to advance the discussion. Explain how your “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” is set up and how it will work.

      • georgehants

        Warthog, your comment shows a complete lack of reading of the many comments on this subject.
        There has been no system tailored to modern production that has been tried.
        Please do not try to create a circular debunkers argument.
        if you cannot understand my point that ——–
        “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society”
        Then I or nobody can help you.
        You are saying do not Research Cold Fusion because nothing can replace oil, coal,etc.
        If you find you are unable to understand the subject as a whole then probably best to keep away from it.

      • georgehants

        Warthog, your comment shows a complete lack of reading of the many comments on this subject.
        There has been no system tailored to modern production that has been tried.
        Please do not try to create a circular debunkers argument.
        if you cannot understand my point that ——–
        “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society”
        Then I or nobody can help you.
        You are saying do not Research Cold Fusion because nothing can replace oil, coal,etc.
        If you find you are unable to understand the subject as a whole then probably best to keep away from it.

        • Warthog

          I’ve read a whole lot of your comments, and they elaborate nothing. They are essentially meaningless generalizations, just like the one on this thread.

          The phrase “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” has zero content without defining the terms, especially “simple system”…..WHAT “simple system”??? It is at that last point that all your posts enter the “fail” zone. How does this “simple system” work??

          Like it or not, free enterprise capitalism has thus far worked better than any other system devised by man. Socialism of many flavors has been tried over and over and has failed in every case. These are empirical facts.
          Why will your (undefined) system succeed where all the others have failed?

        • Warthog

          I’ve read a whole lot of your comments, and they elaborate nothing. They are essentially meaningless generalizations, just like the one on this thread.

          The phrase “simple system of rewards for efforts to a better society” has zero content without defining the terms, especially “simple system”…..WHAT “simple system”??? It is at that last point that all your posts enter the “fail” zone. How does this “simple system” work??

          Like it or not, free enterprise capitalism has thus far worked better than any other system devised by man. Socialism of many flavors has been tried over and over and has failed in every case. These are empirical facts.
          Why will your (undefined) system succeed where all the others have failed?

          • georgehants

            As I wrote above if you are unable to read the comments in this string or understand the concept, I cannot help you.
            Goodbye

          • Warthog

            I can read the comments just fine…..the problem is that you have failed to define “the concept” in any meaningful way. You ALWAYS dodge the issue exactly as you have here.

            But I suggest again that you simply stick to LENR and take the politics/economics to another forum,

          • Warthog

            I can read the comments just fine…..the problem is that you have failed to define “the concept” in any meaningful way. You ALWAYS dodge the issue exactly as you have here.

            But I suggest again that you simply stick to LENR and take the politics/economics to another forum,

          • georgehants

            As I wrote above if you are unable to read the comments in this string or understand the concept, I cannot help you.
            Goodbye

        • MorganMck

          The last refuge of the left-wing elitist: “Don’t argue with my views because you are too stupid to know whats good for you and the rest of the world.” I’m afraid this is not a very good soapbox for you George. Perhaps you can find a more receptive audience elsewhere. We tire of the continuous rants re you hobbyhorse.

        • MorganMck

          The last refuge of the left-wing elitist: “Don’t argue with my views because you are too stupid to know whats good for you and the rest of the world.” I’m afraid this is not a very good soapbox for you George. Perhaps you can find a more receptive audience elsewhere. We tire of the continuous rants re you hobbyhorse.

      • orsobubu

        Warthog, what you call capitalism and free market is a thing of the past. We live in the next stage of political econmy, scientifically called imperialism by Lenin. Today there is not a thing like a free market. Instead, there are monopolism, finance dominance, capital exports, global markets and world subdivision in strategic influence spheres. But the acts of production of services and goods are already communist today, because they are the fruit of a totally socialized process. Only the privatization of profits is imperialistic.and this represents a contradiction that history will surely resolve: with a social revolution or with a tragic counter revolution.In this perspective, we call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. LENR and automation are technologies pushing a strong acceleration to the contradiction. Personally, I think that bourgeoisie could avoid a big world war or avoid to be defeated by a communist revolution only if they succeed in expanding the capitalistic production system in the outer space. This requires that, in a brief time span, hundred millions new workers (like the Asian wage-work, proletarian explosion in last decades) be transferred in orbit or, at least, that hundred millions jobs be created on earth related to immense space robotized infrastructures, so to delay the fatal overproduction capitalistic issue. And this appears to me frankly highly improbable.

        • Warthog

          Capitalism and the free market are alive and well in small businesses around the world. Imperialism died after WWII (see “British Empire” and the rest of colonialism). Communism (the other “real” imperialism) is dying as we speak. China is “de facto” capitalist…they just don’t/won’t use the “C-word” to describe their system.

          The social experiments have all been done with respect to capitalism vs socialism, and socialism loses in every case. We have seen the political transition of nations (or parts of nations) from imperialism to socialism (Korea, Vietnam, Venezuela), and from socialism to capitalism (Chile, China, Vietnam),and “twin studies” (North and South Korea, West and East Germany). The data is in…..socialism fails….even when it has all the resource advantages in its favor (Venezuela/oil).

          The problem you and George have is that you want some or other “top-down” solution imposed, which has already proven not to work, while the “real” solution is growing organically with things like the Internet, and economic institutions like Kickstarter and other “bottum-up” changes it makes possible. The whole “communist/bourgeosie” meme is a dead end.

          See:

          http://deirdremccloskey.org/docs/pdf/McCloskey_IdeasEnrichedTheWorld.pdf

          The Internet was the “real” revolution. LENR can and will accelerate things hugely, but the fundamental changes are already happening without it. Crony capitalist businesses will, I think, prove to be “dinosaurs” in the long run, unable to compete with faster/smarter “mammals” (Amazon, Google, E-Bay and dozens more, which will not necessarily be “small”).

          • orsobubu

            Warthog, the problem with your reasoning is that you confuse socialism with communism. What you call socialist regimes are pure and simple state capitalism. But you can study the fundamental texts by Bordiga:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeo_Bordiga
            http://www.sinistra.net/lib/bas/progra/stru/index.html

            So every one of your statements loses significancy, because they can be directed against capitalism itself (and you contradict yourself when referring correctly to China as a capitalist economy). In the same way, you clearly don’t know the definition of modern imperialism, that was started by bourgeoisie economist Hobson and then perfected by Lenin; studying thair works, it is obvious that we are in a full-fledged imperialistic condition now more than ever. The transitions imperialism-socialism and socialism-capitalism are totally fruit of historical fantasy. About top-down solutions, I must to remind you that every revolution in history, including the bourgeoisie win over feudalism, were conducted by minorities. The difference is that in capitalism a tiny fraction of people owns everything, and this is clearly a top-down regime; to the contrary, communism never existed to date, it is a program, a possibility, a real social movement of the present that has yet to demonstrate to be able to seize and maintain the power (dialectical materialism).
            The last part on the internet businesses has not value, because the servers are owned by bourgeoisie, which will close them when they will perceive a peril of revolution, like already did recently in Libia, etc.
            In your post, there are clear symptoms of idealism everywhere: it is a totally inversion of reality to say that internet economy realizes democracy: in capitalistic conditions, globalization, automation and robotization of production processes lead necessarily to proletarization, monopolism and overproduction.

          • Warthog

            Communism is just another flavor of socialism. Communism was an attempt to implement socialism on an international scale, while socialism organizes at the nation-state level. The confusion is on your part…..I would hardly call North Korea “state capitalism”. China is a communist state becoming capitalist (which is now at the stage of state capitalism). And I use words as they are defined….not the redefinitions of murderous nutcases like Marx and Lenin. Imperialism is “empire”, which implies rule of other states by powerful nations, and which included the Soviet Union (which was both communist and imperialist).

            The “bourgeoisie win over feudalism” was an evolutionary process, not a “revolution”, and that is precisely how the next stage beyond capitalism will evolve (unless derailed by a top-down solution imposed by well-meaning promoters of socialism).

            “In capitalism a tiny fraction of the people owns everything….”. Really?? I know lots of businesses not so owned. OTOH, in the Soviet Union, a “tiny fraction of the people” really DID own everything (see “nomenklatura”).

            “The last part on the internet businesses has not value, because the
            servers are owned by bourgeoisie, which will close them when they will
            perceive a peril of revolution, like already did recently in Libia, etc.”

            LOL…..you compare a backward, basically dictatorial regime like Libya, in which the servers were probably owned by the state in the first place to the complexity of a small-c “capitalist” economy? Ludicrous.

            In the evolutionary process that is happening in advanced economies, there will never “be” an overt revolution to sound an alarm that would result in a “shutdown”. There are thousands upon thousands of server farms, owned by entities both large and small. Just as there are thousands and thousands of businesses, both large and small.

            And I did NOT say that “the internet economy realizes democracy”, and certainly not of the political sort. That it offers the possibility of a mechanism that “might” result on a direct overall sort of democratic political process is a (dangerous) fact (due to hacking and fraud possibilities).

            And in fact, I never said anything about economic “democratization”. I simply pointed out that the internet is allowing new forms of organization of both business AND capital, which are “organizing themselves” in many different ways. What is happening right now is the formation of an economic ecology, which will include both large entities and small entities.

            You and George suffer from the idea that a simplistic top down solution (socialism) is possible in an ecological economy. It is not. There is simply too much complexity for such an approach to succeed.

            “…in capitalistic conditions, globalization, automation and robotization
            of production processes lead necessarily to proletarization, monopolism
            and overproduction.”

            Communist/socialist bafflegab continues. “Necessarily” is a fantasy of socialist economic theory.

            What is currently happening is “economic evolution” into more and more diverse forms and mechanisms. Previously, only the organization of businesses into huge entities allowed “globalization”, as those were the only things that could organize and communicate successfully on a global scale. This has, “necessarily” concentrated ownership in a relatively small group. With the advent of the internet, ANY size company can “globalize”, and large numbers are doing so, successfully.

            But this is not the place to have this conversation. If you can suggest a different spot to discuss it, reply with a URL.

          • bachcole

            “Communism is just another flavor of socialism.” I did not finish your very long comment because I disagree with your premise so much. As far as an economic theory is concerned, you are right. But the feeling tone, the flavor of their attitude, is lightyears apart. Communists are filled with hatred and anger and want to us force, even lethal force, to force everyone into their mold. Socialist are just wanting to hold hands and sing kum ba ya. I never felt threatened by Sweden. I always felt threatened by the Soviet Union. Sweden even sunk of the Soviet’s submarines and flagged their noses as the Bear.

            I personally don’t like holding hands and singing kum ba ya. But I do not fear that they are going to send me to the Gulag Archipelago if I don’t. In fact, the attitude of the Swedes is so nice that I might actually take a crack at holding hands and singing kum ba ya.

          • orsobubu

            Hi Bachcole, those gulags were filled with communists, so don’t worry about them because you’re not a communist. Also, first gulags were invented by british imperialists during the capitalist boer wars in africa. Lieutenant General Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell, OM GCMG GCVO KCB, the Scout Movement starter, was the genius.

          • Warthog

            “As far as an economic theory is concerned, you are right.”

            Well, this “is” the direction I am coming at the subject from…

            But from an emotional context, you are quite correct. The ONLY way communism can be established is by fomenting irrational hatred of the “bourgeoisie” (i.e. pretty much anyone who has gumption and initiative and is willing to work hard as hell to start and/or run a business). The progenitor of it all (Marx) was consumed by hatred, because he had an ego lightyears tall AND wide and thought that with his so-called “genius” he should have been in charge, or at least able to make a living. The reality is that Marx was a lazy leech who would have starved to death if he had not been financially supported by Engels. And yet socialists and communists think that his “thought” should be the basis for how the entire world should be organized and have built up a fantasy of economic theory to justify supporting it. It galls them no end that keeps failing on actually being applied.

            The Norse countries are a special case, as they have a long, long tradition of representative democratic governance, having actually invented it (the first real parliament was, as I recall, established in Iceland), which they just can’t bring themselves to give up, so their attempts at socialism are always diluted by democracy, and never reach the degree of “purity” necessary to carry out the actions actually get to “full” socialism, with all the despotism needed for that.

          • orsobubu

            About oldest parliament, I could say that in ancient geece there was a democracy, but only slavers could vote. The first to establish a democratic system where every man and every woman had the right to vote, was Lenin after the bolschevik revolution. Then the world bourgeoisie invaded Russia organizing the white terrorism; Lenin and Trotzky at first won, kicking the invaders’ butts out, but then Stalin killed all bolsheviks, and then developed Lenin’s state capitalism (in fact, Lenin never said he made communism in Soviet Union. He said he made a state capitalism, aka NEP). When you have money in a state, there cannot be any communism, because money can be made exclusively on the basis of workers’ exploitation (surely not by adding a profit margin by the entrapreneur!): and if you have class exploitation, you have not communism of course. Lenin failed in establishing communism all over the world, because bourgeoisie killed all the revolutionary leaders in respective countries.Exactly because of lacking of a revolutionary party, then came the second imperialist world war; Lenin was the first and only statesman in history to put unilaterally a halt to a war, in 1915.

          • Warthog

            Not quite. The Greek approach was “direct democracy” (although your point about only slave-owners voting is correct). More akin to the “town-hall meetings” of the northeast US colonies. Not a parliament.

            “The first to establish a democratic system where every man and every
            woman had the right to vote, was Lenin after the bolschevik revolution.”

            Uh no. That honor belongs to the state of Wyoming in the good old US of A.
            which pre-dated Lenin and Trotsky by quite a few years.

          • orsobubu

            I know it was a partial right, wasn’t it?

          • Warthog

            Not sure what you mean by a “partial right”?? Wyoming as a territory established “equal suffrage” for both men and women. What happened when Wyoming became a US state, I don’t recall, as it has been years since I studied the issue.

          • orsobubu

            Warthog, I have to decline your interesting invitation for lack of time; we could confront ourselves on the subject in this forum occasionally, if Frank does permit, since this is the only place where I post today, together with JONP, I’m sorry because you made a long answer for me. Since I’m communist, I have to make my political action with real people, not on the forums. I’m also sorry because I would have so much things to reply. My only contribution here is to specify that our positions differs on a very important starting point: you refer to communism using the bourgeoisie, ideological interpretation: communism is the production system used in ex-soviet block states. I use the scientific interpretation by Marx and Engels: communism is the doctrine about the conditions for proletariat freedom; a state with money, banks, market and wage work, like the countries you refer to, cannot be communist by scientific definition, they are flatly capitalist. You are confusing communism with fascism and yes, those states were flatly fascist; Stalin killed all the bolshevicks, one by one by design. Your definition of communist regimes is just ideological like it would be to say that in USA today there is a free market. Instead, in USA there is a liberal economic cycle inside a state capitalism in a frame of social-imperialist conditions.

          • Warthog

            Neither Marx nor Engels were even remotely “scientific”. Nor was their “economics”. Pure fantasy. And communism (including your entire post above) is totally ideological, containing more misconceptions than I have ever seen in a single post before.

            My position is based on the facts on the ground, not ideological fantasy.

          • bachcole

            Stop being so mean to orsobubu. We all know that theory is everything and burned fingers nothing. Otherwise cold fusion would be real.

    • Alain Samoun

      “continuing to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful”
      LENR as medicine for our society:
      Privilege, Pathology and Power
      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/opinion/privilege-pathology-and-power.html?_r=0

    • Alain Samoun

      “continuing to keep the rich and powerful, rich and powerful”
      LENR as medicine for our society:
      Privilege, Pathology and Power
      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/opinion/privilege-pathology-and-power.html?_r=0

      • LarryJ

        I am not an American but I think the American system of lobbying seriously shifts power away from the people and into the hands of the elite. The Canadian system (I’m Canadian) imposes strict limits on campaign contributions by individuals or corporations. Individuals/corporations can contribute $1500. Candidates can contribute $5000 to their own campaign and the law is strictly enforced. As you might imagine this greatly deepens the gene pool that can be drawn on to lead the nation and significant funds can only be raised if you have a large following of ordinary citizens willing to part with some cash. Lobbying still exists but arguments are more of the “Helping our industry would be best for the country and jobs” nature and are not accompanied by a gigantic campaign contribution. We still get elites from time to time. Our current Prime Minister is the son of a very popular and controversial Prime Minister from the 70’s and his family is wealthy but it wasn’t his wealth that won the day. It was his name, his ideas, his youth and his great hair style.

        http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=lim/post2015&document=index&lang=e

        • bachcole

          I rest my case.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      > supply the basic needs services and
      agreed luxuries of all in a country?

      Agreed? How, and by who and by what standards?

      So we both agree on that we like high quality steak and taking out beautiful women, we all agree on this? The problem of course is then you have to implement a system to FORCIBILITY take away my bottles of expensive wine and you ALSO have to implement a system to take away my beautiful woman.

      Of course the ONLY way to do the above is to build a system that runs towards the LOWEST common view. Some people inplace of that nice steak dinner might want to go out to the football game (and as a result the football player gets paid millions). You now going to agree that everyone has a right to attend that football game? (but forgetting there are limited seats to the stadium, and there also limited numbers of that great
      wine). Or do you degree that such a luxury is NOT to be had by anyone? (that
      goes for women, or maybe watching monster trucks?). Who says any of this is “necessary”, but it such as the heck can be fun and enjoyable! Its called being alive and living and enjoying life.

      You making a big long post but “mulling” over the issue of “agreed”. The only way to have such an agreement is to FORCE AND take away that decision from people (and only way to do that is to take away rights – aka communism/socialism).

      So who’s going to make this agreement?

      How you going to achieve such an agreeing?
      I can EASY agree we should all have the luxury of a beautiful house with a swimming pool. And even worse is many though jealously and envy will NOT want anyone to have such a luxury if they can’t have the luxury for themselves! (so now you going to outlaw envy in society? Or make a law to take away my beautiful women that many envy and want?).

      > desired work is equally shared

      How you going to define desired work?

      You going to force me to become a movie star because that is desired work?

      How can you share work? We going to take someone off the street and have him do part time brain surgery at the hospital? And if there not enough brain surgeons in town, then are you going to force someone who is terrible at brain surgery to become one? And who and how are you going to force the decision on who needs that brain surgery?
      And who you going to force the decision on of taking away their great bottle of wine?

      The only way to make such an agreement is to take away YOUR choice and rights – that means loss freedom which is the communist and socialist that you REQUIRE to implement your “agreeing” upon system.

      So the only way to FORCE your agreeing on everyone is to take away everyone’s choice. So we right back to a system that has to take away your choices and freedoms. That called socialism/communism.

      Maybe the person wants to grow potatoes because they like them. But now you going to declare the farmer MUST grow corn because that’s the agreement of everyone?

      You have to explain how you going to force such agreeing upon society without forcibly takin away people’s rights, property and even their women if you think beautiful women are a luxury that everyone agrees upon.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada
      kallal@msn.com

  • Oystein Lande

    So Rossi taps electricity directly from the core wafer.

    And here is what’s happening :

    1. We know from other research that LENR may produce electromagnetic alternating fields.
    2. The steel layers where introduced in the Wafers for efficient heat transfer from core (according to patent)
    3. But steel also conducts electricity, so the LENR wafer layer will induce el. currents in the steel layers (from point 1)
    4. Rossi knowing about LENR producing electromagnetic fields connected wires to the various steel layers and hooked up an oscilloscope to analyse If something interesting was going on.
    5. Rossi then noticed that the steel layers have HF AC voltage between each layer.
    6. Rossi hooked up fast acting diodes and is able to collect rectified DC currents from the HF AC fields from the steel layers. The DC currents will have varying DC voltage, but this may be adjusted to specific DC voltage with the right elctronics.

    Anyhow: this is my hypothesis, and I’m pretty confident I’m right 🙂 , that is If Rossi is not pulling a huge practical joke 😉

    • Frederic Maillard

      Oystein,
      Rossi said the non X e-cat can not directly produce electricity.
      Does your interesting explanation still stand ?
      FM

      • If that’s the case then the internals of the 1MW plant must presumably differ substantially from the ‘wafer’ design used in the e-cat x.

        • Frederic Maillard

          Right.
          I had in mind Rossi’s reply to this question :
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=36#comment-1143886
          FM

          • Oystein Lande

            Well, the non x-cat has the same Wafers that x-cat has, so he probably just mean that the non x-cat is not mechanically constructed to extract electricity. The steel layers need some electrical connections and separate wires from each steel layer and out of the cat…. So the “old” cat needs some reconstruction to extract electricity = x-cat. 😉

            …..If my hypothesis is correct 😉

          • Frederic Maillard

            Thanks.
            That is probably the explanation.

            If Rossi thought beforehand to put external electrical connections with the steel layers inside the wafers for the new ECAT-X, then his inspiration was probably more at that time than on Christmas Eve.
            FM

          • Oystein Lande

            Well, the non x-cat has the same Wafers that x-cat has, so he probably just mean that the non x-cat is not mechanically constructed to extract electricity. The steel layers need some electrical connections and separate wires from each steel layer and out of the cat…. So the “old” cat needs some reconstruction to extract electricity = x-cat. 😉

            …..If my hypothesis is correct 😉

        • US_Citizen71
        • US_Citizen71
  • Gerard McEk

    It seems simple to me that AR can make a self looped system, constantly producing 450 watts. There is no need to show what is inside. He just can make a ‘black box’ (actually a very bright light producing thing) with all the control connected, totally separated from any power source and show that to the world. That would be the best demonstration of his New Fire.
    Any measurement can be done to determine its energy/power output during the time it runs. It should be fully convincing and hit the main news media, when AR chooses a strategic location for his demonstration.
    Still I would also prefer that AR either makes the Ecats in a huge fabric (or just the ‘wafers’?) or license the Ecats/wafers to any company intending to bring a product on the market that needs a energy source. That would bring his dream to reality in the quickest way and that was where I hoped for when he said that he was going to reveal something last night. Although it looks very prommissing what he has told us last night, it is just ‘something what Andrea Rossi has said’ for 99% of all the people in the world and not convincing at all. Yes, I am a bit disappointed and I hope for a proper demo soon.

    • artefact

      Regarding: “It seems simple to me that AR can make a self looped system”

      Rossi answered to that on the JONP:
      “That is a possible configuration, but there are safety issues that could obstaculate it. Anyway it is not important the destination of the use.F9.”
      And:
      “The issue is much more complicated and, again, it is not important, under the economic point of view, what you use the electricity for.”

      • Gerard McEk

        I guess that the Ecat requires a continuous control, otherwise it may run out of control. For that reason he may need to incorporate a buffer (battery/supercap) or an independent safety system that will switch the Ecat off when it becomes too hot. That does not seem too difficult to do, but it may lead to a slightly different design.

        • Bob Greenyer

          A loop with a buffer is still a loop – control of the buffer supply would be no different to control of the mains supply. If the electricity output from the buffer, considering control system losses, is in excess of the control power needed on average including shutdown requirements, the argument that safety issues prevent its implementation is fatuous.

          • Gerard McEk

            Every capacitor is a buffer, even the small ones in the control panel, Bob. I think one should look to how much energy is produced. If it is 100 times the capacity of the best available battery fitting in the size of the control panel, then that would be sufficiently convincing.
            Losses in contol should be much lower than what can be supplied having a COP of 10, but I do not exactly know the requirements are of an Ecat control obviously.

          • Bob Greenyer

            even if it is part paid on non-transferrable food stamps.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Rossi mentioned once that the E-Cat needs a power supply of high “elasticity”, which seems to imply that peak power demand lies far above average. So even with a high COP you might need a quite effective and therefore expensive buffer, which would – even if all safety issues could be solved – make no sense in a commercial product. Since Rossi is focused on marketable devices, investing additional time in a single demo project might not appear advantageous to him.

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, but if short high power surges are required, then that is easily resolved with capacitors. If more energy as well is needed, than an addition of a battery can en added, but this is just for a final product. If one wants to prove the technology then additional cost for an overly reliable version should be no problem.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            Like EEStor’s caps. Good, cheap capacitors are a blessing onto this world!

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, super caps are probably the best suited because of their high power capability, which will serve the ‘power flexibility’ that AR requires. Maybe the energy capability is too low to start-up an Ecat.

      • ecatworld

        If it turns out that most electricity in a system is made by E-Cats, then self looping will be happening by default.

      • Axil Axil

        Rossi’s dream implies that an electrical infrastructure exists or would need to be put into place. This could be a problem for many places on earth. The Rossi dream is a first world dream. In the thrid world, no electric grids exist. The X Cat battey concept could be used to power any device in a stand alone and independent fashion. For example, someone in the jungle could make good use of a X Cat powered refrigerator without any grid in place. Rossi’s dream imposes a civilization onto people who have little wealth. It could be said that the X Cat dream is only good for the rich.

    • LarryJ

      No matter how perfect you make the demo you would always have a distinguished crowd claiming fraud. Rossi knows this and will perform no more demos. The investors he had to convince are already convinced. Putting products in the marketplace is the only truly convincing demo and even that won’t convince die hards.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes, but if you want quickly reach a huge potential group of customers, than a convincing demo would be the most effective. In the beginning there will be always sceptics who will say it was fraud, but when the responses of those who bought the product are good, then these sceptics will soon deminish and fully disappear.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The often cited Wright Brothers invited people to view the plane flying, they even flew it alongside passenger planes. You can not deny something when you see it with your own eyes.

          Perhaps Rossi could make a secure steam train – sleep in that and drive it around the country.

          • Omega Z

            Note the time he spent doing that could be spent putting product on the market. That provides the ultimate public test.
            Also need to keep in mind that the X-cat is still very much at R&D stage.

          • Warthog

            Schwartz/Nanor did this at MIT in Hagelstein’s short course. Students had full access to the device and measurement system, made measurements themselves, etc. It “might” have convinced some members of the course, but it changed not one thing with the skeptopaths.

          • MorganMck

            Calorimetry is always going to be an issue. We have seen this already in the tests performed to date. Even those who do not claim fraud or conspiracy think that the thermal output from the electrical input has significant measurement error.

            A straight electrical input/output (and even self-looped after start-up) would remove all this conjecture and if run long enough to preclude stored energy in the device would be very convincing to anyone. Set up a demo with credible observers and I think yo would make a news splash. Perhaps you would need a small series of demo to cascade from the already interested and open-minded with some scientific credibility to the bigger names from credible institutions of industry and academia.

            The big question is does Rossi (+IH ?) think they have more to gain than lose by such a demo.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I propose this calorimetry – the LENR steam engine with a known size would be able to accelerate a known load at a certain rate – more than that would be anomalous.

            A “closed loop” “fairground” rail-road ride could be set to run indefinitely with no re-fuelling for a year. The boiler could be really small and require no stoking.

            I bet some steam engine enthusiasts would do the engineering for free.

            I still like our proposal to him, to heat a veteran hydrotherapy pool.

          • Axil Axil

            Unlike the first MFMP reactor test, Ross spreads out his fuel very thinly over a large ares to keep the reaction from getting out of hand in any given spot. Rossi looks like he switched over to the way Piantelli produces fuel by surface plating on a solid substrate, Do these new insights inspire new methods in the way MFMP does things?

          • Bob Greenyer

            We are actively considering options for future tests.

          • artefact

            On JONP: (Pekka / Rossi)

            1- Does the E-cat X tolerate vibrations when running hot? This property would be relevant in all car applications.
            2- In the US. patent, it is mentioned (page 9, left column, line 20) that mica layers are covered by “a protective polymer coating”. I think that most or all polymers decompose or melt already at relatively low temperature. Is the idea that the polymer coating purposefully outgasses and carbonises itself when first run, like what happens in the production process of carbon fibres?
            AR:
            1- yes
            2- we have on course a new patent related to this issue: I prefer not to risk a pre-disclosure

          • artefact

            It will take a while but at some point in the future there will be lots and lots of patents published.

          • US_Citizen71

            It depends what the polymer is, Sulfur can be easily turned into a polymer by melting it for example.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Interesting, I didn’t know that. But sulfur has boiling point 444 C, which means I think that it evaporates easily, is volatile.

          • US_Citizen71

            Oh don’t think it is sulfur but when we think of polymers we automatically think of plastics they are not all encompassing of what a polymer is.

          • Agaricus

            Silicon also forms polymers (polysiloxanes), but like sulphur these aren’t stable beyond about 400C. When polysiloxanes break down completely at higher temperatures, they leave a silica residue that might still have some structural integrity.

          • Nigel Appleton

            Sorry – Orville and Wilbur flew their stringbags alongside passenger planes???

            Trains, perhaps?

          • Gerard McEk

            I guess so…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – I edited my distraction derived error.

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes Bob, but we are living in different times now. There must be an easier method considering our mass media and Internet. Maybe the 1 MW plant will be sufficiently convincing (at least for the industry)?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            No need to convince now. Once devices (any type: industrial or domestic) are on sale and if they work, word will spread and others will buy.

          • Alain Samoun
          • Agaricus

            Very pretty but just a tad dated for a cold fusion demonstrator perhaps. Something more like this, maybe:

            http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/leader-diag.jpg

          • jousterusa

            From such dreams great things begin. Happy New Year, Dr. Rossi, and thank you and Happy New Year to you, Frank. Your excitement about the E-Cat and its versions is palpable, and very, very much appreciated. Thank you for all your hard work on this site!

          • Alain Samoun

            Nope! I think my is more classy,let’s have AR to choose.

          • Brokeeper

            I think I mentioned this before, as a teenager my neighbor was Ivonette Wright Millar, niece to the Wright Brothers. Orville took her up in the plane to buzz the trains below. She was the youngest American child to fly then and had her uncles’ wooden propeller from that plane hung above the mantel.

        • Axil Axil

          Without the pressure of competition, Rossi is well served to just sit back and do more R&D. Why turn on all the world as a competitor? He can just add to his lead until the cows come home. If we want LENR out in the world, then a competitor to Rossi must force his hand.

          • LarryJ

            Your comment assumes that Rossi has no financial backers to answer to. He is not an island. Once they have a product then IH will run with it and they will happily leave Rossi to pursue his next project. IH will most likely have a product at the end of the current 1 year test F9.

        • LarryJ

          “but when the responses of those who BOUGHT the PRODUCT are good, then these sceptics will soon deminish”

          My point exactly. The only demo that truly counts is the one you do yourself. As Rossi would say the “the rest is useless chatters”. There will be no more demos until products are on the shelf. As for convincing customers he has stated that he already has billions in pre-orders. Even if a small percentage carry through it will give him a good start.

      • LarryJ

        I think it’s very difficult to wage war against your major trading partners, especially when they owe you vast sums of money. Think about that.

        • Brent Buckner

          I suppose it would depend in part upon whether or not such a trading partner shows ability and inclination to repay those vast sums of money.

          • US_Citizen71

            Let’s put it another way. What happens to your industry when you go to war with the country buying most of the output of your industry’s production?

          • Brent Buckner

            Perhaps you retool it to produce things for domestic production or for export to other countries that will redeem their debts by providing actual goods or services.

          • US_Citizen71

            Sure but in the meantime workers are out of work, the economy takes a downturn, risk of revolution increases and businesses may fail unless propped up. When the country that you are war with also has the ability to all but cut your supply of raw materials and distribution of your products as well you have begun economic suicide. China is dependant on shipping via the sea and the US Navy is still the strongest in the world, attack subs vs freighters is a shooting gallery.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “Sure but in the meantime workers are out of work, the economy takes a
            downturn, risk of revolution increases and businesses may fail unless
            propped up.” Sure, but that may be better than devoting resources to producing goods that will never be paid for. And we do have evidence that China is beginning to adjust to more domestic consumption.

            You wrote: “When the country that you are war with also has the ability to all but cut your supply [and more]”. That strikes me as a much more material point!

          • US_Citizen71

            The thing is China is paid for their goods. The money used might be loans in a manner of speaking but if I give you $5 I borrowed from Sue to pay for your widget, did you not get paid, regardless if I ever pay Sue back? Most of the debt load the US has is owned by the American people, the only truth in the often spouted factoid that ‘china owns most of our debt’ is that it owns most of our foreign debt which is a minority of the total debt owed.

          • Brent Buckner

            I was responding to LarryJ’s comment “especially when they owe you vast sums of money”, not bothering to doublecheck. Thanks!

    • Alan DeAngelis
      • Alan DeAngelis
        • Gerard McEk

          That includes most scientists!

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ah, yes. The “Reputation Trap”.

          • Buck

            For those who want to revel and might sometimes like to read too much into a single data point, like me on this New Years Day.

            Obama is reading a biography of the Wright Brothers while on vacation in Hawaii. As we all remember, the authorities of that time reverentially declared heavier than air flight was impossible, against the laws of nature, and quite possibly against God’s will as we weren’t born with feathers or wings. A story that has been inextricably woven into the fabric of the LENR/Cold Fusion history. You repeatedly read of it here at E-Cat World.

            And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR, Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy efforts. Just ask Mats Lewan or those who have sent Obama information outlining the importance of LENR.

            LINK>> http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-vacation-reading-list/index.html?eref=rss_politics

            “The President will also tackle a biography of the Wright Brothers in between his normal vacation activities.”

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Preparing a speech for the E-Cat announcement?

          • Buck

            Dreams of empowerment and power includes flying, don’t they?

            I don’t want to tempt fate by pointing out upcoming possibilities.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            “From a long view of the history of mankind — seen from, say, ten thousand years from now — there can be little doubt that the most significant event of the 19th century will be judged as Maxwell’s discovery of the laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil War will pale into provincial insignificance in comparison with this important scientific event of the same decade.”
            -Richard Feynman

            And the 21st century?
            Obama wants to be remembered ten thousand years from now.

          • Buck

            Or, as a loving father, he wants to do what he can to protect the future of his daughters and the possibility of their children.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Could be. “Obama Declares war on coal.” http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/25/obama-declares-war-on-coal.html
            He knows far more about Rossi and the E-Cat than we do.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t believe he know more about the E-Cat in January 2008, when he talked of taking coal off the table as an ideological matter:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTIhyMa-Nw

          • Buck

            Brent,

            I think Obama’s message was the opposite of your assertion.

            Beginning at about the 2:37 he completes his point that if technology allows the burning of coal in a relatively clean fashion, then the industrialists can build their coal-fired power plants as far as he is concerned. The problem for coal is that this technology does not currently exist.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            So, China builds more coal plant and the US loses its industrial base. CO2 emissions remain the same.

          • Buck

            Alan,
            Your assertion doesn’t make sense.

            How do you support the notion that the transformation from a fossil fuel based economy to a LENR based economy results in the shutting down of US industry? Excluding the industries where fossil fuels ARE the product, then energy once generated and transmitted is fungible with the only difference being price of each kWh. . . .

            I take Rossi’s characterization of the E-Cat X having an “electricity COP” of about 10 as being very close to the truth, meaning that the cost of LENR electricity simply pushes fossil fuel electricity out of the market over a transition period. Industry invests in the migration from high to low cost.

            Also, how do you exclude China from the same economic pressures of substituting high cost energy with low cost energy? Have you seen photographs of their polluted air.

            I suggest that the Chinese authorities will very quickly gravitate away from pollution as a means to maintain balance. But, LENR has to first become available for this logic to force the decisions. Until then, traditional energy sources hold their relative position.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I was referring to the Obama video from 2008 (before the E-Cat).

          • Buck

            Hhmmm . . . . I was referring to now and the relatively near future where the assumption of industrial LENR plants being commercially available is true. 🙂

          • Brent Buckner

            I did not claim that Obama was ideologically opposed to coal. In 2008 he was pursuing cap-and-trade (so emissions-based, not materials-based), and relatively aggressively, on the basis of his risk assessment; I believe that was before he knew anything about the e-cat.

          • Buck

            Hhmmm . . . .

            “I don’t believe he know more about the E-Cat in January 2008, when he
            talked of taking coal off the table as an IDEOLOGICAL matter:”

            This aside . . . I agree that this was likely before he knew of Rossi and the e-cat.

          • Brent Buckner

            Yes. As I have it, he was set to discuss coal on a cost/benefit basis (versus ideological), and at the time believed that his preferred relatively aggressive cap-and-trade system would significantly diminish coal consumption.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Or is he doing a Battle of Gaugamela move. By shutting down the coal plants he’s providing his opposition with a target to attack. This opens up a gap in his political enemy’s line. He enters through that gap with the E-Cat.
            http://www.johndclare.net/AncientHistory/images/Gaugamela.gif

          • Buck

            +1 😉

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ok, I’m drifting off topic but this is the Battle of Gaugamela. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXVfdpS8vnY

          • Buck

            And, the defeat of Gaugamela?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Vu45l3PMI

          • Buck

            Alan, I enjoyed the history lesson about Alexander the Great . . .

          • bachcole

            “And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR,
            Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy
            efforts.” I find it interesting that people forget the time and effort for them to go from hearing about cold fusion to them believing in the reality of the E-Cat. And Obama has lots and lots on his mind, and his hearing about a rumor about an alleged energy source called LENR does not take up a lot of his thinking time.

          • Buck

            Roger,
            what you say is true unless someone near Obama is convinced LENR is real, functioning at an industrial scale, and imminent.

            With this is mind, an analysis points to the fact that LENR has a profound impact on the economy and industrial policy, national politics, national security, foreign affairs, and the environment to name some points. And this is before one recognizes that this scope of impact is also true for how LENR will impact the Global stage.

            At this point, I believe it becomes a point of negligence to withhold this from Obama.

          • Again—I person a know well, close to Obama, has my book and know about the story. And if Rossi really sold the first 1MW plant to a military customer, probably American, which I think is true, then US military knows a lot about his technology by now.

          • Buck

            Mats,

            I am not trying to assert more than a sense of possibility and probability . . . definitely not certainty. I’m not trying to put words into your mouth and I regret my phrasing suggested you handed/sold your book to Obama directly.

            I’m one who has sent Obama information and actually received a generally relevant reply appropriate for US Energy Policy. However, the nature of the reply left the question open on Obama’s direct involvement and knowledge of the specifics of the status of LENR R&D. It would be very easy to say that staff simply replied out of presidential politeness to a knucklehead voter who doesn’t know that Cold Fusion is impossible.

          • LarryJ

            I couldn’t agree more. I think all the powers that be, both political and industrial know this is coming down the pipe but there is much to risk and nothing to gain by making pronouncements until products are on the market. It is very easy for the powers that be to delay major expenditures without risking their reputations.The climate accord and Obama’s cancellation of the very controversial Keystone pipeline are two recent examples. This technology is likely going to be on the market sometime in 2017 which is an eye blink compared to the lead time for major energy or carbon reduction projects.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            From page 49 of Frank Close’s 1991 book Too Hot to Handle:
            “…a source of much-needed tritium. This sort of application of test-tube fusion
            also impressed Indian Government scientists who decided that western nations
            would soon classify test-tube fusion as a secret…” http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/04/rossi-on-cold-fusion-criticism-victimism-is-syndrome-of-impotence/#comment-1277932385

          • Alan DeAngelis

            If F&P had filed for a patent and didn’t have that March 23, 1989 press conference we never would have heard about cold fusion.

      • Gerard McEk

        Sh… The wrong people….

  • Gerard McEk

    It seems simple to me that AR can make a self looped system, constantly producing 450 watts. There is no need to show what is inside. He just can make a ‘black box’ (actually a very bright light producing thing) with all the control connected, totally separated from any power source and show that to the world. That would be the best demonstration of his New Fire.
    Any measurement can be done to determine its energy/power output during the time it runs. It should be fully convincing and hit the main news media, when AR chooses a strategic location for his demonstration.
    Still I would also prefer that AR either makes the Ecats in a huge fabric (or just the ‘wafers’?) or license the Ecats/wafers to any company intending to bring a product on the market that needs a energy source. That would bring his dream to reality in the quickest way and that was where I hoped for when he said that he was going to reveal something last night. Although it looks very prommissing what he has told us last night, it is just ‘something what Andrea Rossi has said’ for 99% of all the people in the world and not convincing at all. Yes, I am a bit disappointed and I hope for a proper demo soon.

    • artefact

      Regarding: “It seems simple to me that AR can make a self looped system”

      Rossi answered to that on the JONP:
      “That is a possible configuration, but there are safety issues that could obstaculate it. Anyway it is not important the destination of the use.F9.”
      And:
      “The issue is much more complicated and, again, it is not important, under the economic point of view, what you use the electricity for.”

      • Gerard McEk

        I guess that the Ecat requires a continuous control, otherwise it may run out of control. For that reason he may need to incorporate a buffer (battery/supercap) or an independent safety system that will switch the Ecat off when it becomes too hot. That does not seem too difficult to do, but it may lead to a slightly different design.

        • Bob Greenyer

          A loop with a buffer is still a loop – control of the buffer supply would be no different to control of the mains supply. If the electricity output from the buffer, considering control system losses, is in excess of the control power needed on average including shutdown requirements, the argument that safety issues prevent its implementation is fatuous.

          • Gerard McEk

            Every capacitor is a buffer, even the small ones in the control panel, Bob. I think one should look to how much energy is produced. If it is 100 times the capacity of the best available battery fitting in the size of the control panel, then that would be sufficiently convincing.
            Losses in contol should be much lower than what can be supplied having a COP of 10, but I do not exactly know the requirements are of an Ecat control obviously.

          • Gerard McEk

            Every capacitor is a buffer, even the small ones in the control panel, Bob. I think one should look to how much energy is produced. If it is 100 times the capacity of the best available battery fitting in the size of the control panel, then that would be sufficiently convincing.
            Losses in contol should be much lower than what can be supplied having a COP of 10, but I do not exactly know the requirements are of an Ecat control obviously.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Rossi mentioned once that the E-Cat needs a power supply of high “elasticity”, which seems to imply that peak power demand lies far above average. So even with a high COP you might need a quite effective and therefore expensive buffer, which would – even if all safety issues could be solved – make no sense in a commercial product. Since Rossi is focused on marketable devices, investing additional time in a single demo project might not appear advantageous to him.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Rossi mentioned once that the E-Cat needs a power supply of high “elasticity”, which seems to imply that peak power demand lies far above average. So even with a high COP you might need a quite effective and therefore expensive buffer, which would – even if all safety issues could be solved – make no sense in a commercial product. Since Rossi is focused on marketable devices, investing additional time in a single demo project might not appear advantageous to him.

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, but if short high power surges are required, then that is easily resolved with capacitors. If more energy as well is needed, than an addition of a battery can en added, but this is just for a final product. If one wants to prove the technology then additional cost for an overly reliable version should be no problem.

          • Like EEStor’s caps. Good, cheap capacitors are a blessing onto this world!

          • Like EEStor’s caps. Good, cheap capacitors are a blessing onto this world!

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, super caps are probably the best suited because of their high power capability, which will serve the ‘power flexibility’ that AR requires. Maybe the energy capability is too low to start-up an Ecat.

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, but if short high power surges are required, then that is easily resolved with capacitors. If more energy as well is needed, than an addition of a battery can en added, but this is just for a final product. If one wants to prove the technology then additional cost for an overly reliable version should be no problem.

      • Frank Acland

        If it turns out that most electricity in a system is made by E-Cats, then self looping will be happening by default.

      • Axil Axil

        Rossi’s dream implies that an electrical infrastructure exists or would need to be put into place. This could be a problem for many places on earth. The Rossi dream is a first world dream. In the thrid world, no electric grids exist. The X Cat battey concept could be used to power any device in a stand alone and independent fashion. For example, someone in the jungle could make good use of a X Cat powered refrigerator without any grid in place. Rossi’s dream imposes a civilization onto people who have little wealth. It could be said that the X Cat dream is only good for the rich.

      • Axil Axil

        Rossi’s dream implies that an electrical infrastructure exists or would need to be put into place. This could be a problem for many places on earth. The Rossi dream is a first world dream. In the thrid world, no electric grids exist. The X Cat battey concept could be used to power any device in a stand alone and independent fashion. For example, someone in the jungle could make good use of a X Cat powered refrigerator without any grid in place. Rossi’s dream imposes a civilization onto people who have little wealth. It could be said that the X Cat dream is only good for the rich.

    • LarryJ

      No matter how perfect you make the demo you would always have a distinguished crowd claiming fraud. Rossi knows this and will perform no more demos. The investors he had to convince are already convinced. Putting products in the marketplace is the only truly convincing demo and even that won’t convince die hards.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes, but if you want quickly reach a huge potential group of customers, than a convincing demo would be the most effective. In the beginning there will be always sceptics who will say it was fraud, but when the responses of those who bought the product are good, then these sceptics will soon deminish and fully disappear.

        • Bob Greenyer

          The often cited Wright Brothers invited people to view the plane flying, they even flew it alongside passenger trains. You can not deny something when you see it with your own eyes.

          Perhaps Rossi could make a secure steam train – sleep in that and drive it around the country.

          • Omega Z

            Note the time he spent doing that could be spent putting product on the market. That provides the ultimate public test.
            Also need to keep in mind that the X-cat is still very much at R&D stage.

          • Warthog

            Schwartz/Nanor did this at MIT in Hagelstein’s short course. Students had full access to the device and measurement system, made measurements themselves, etc. It “might” have convinced some members of the course, but it changed not one thing with the skeptopaths.

          • MorganMck

            Calorimetry is always going to be an issue. We have seen this already in the tests performed to date. Even those who do not claim fraud or conspiracy think that the thermal output from the electrical input has significant measurement error.

            A straight electrical input/output (and even self-looped after start-up) would remove all this conjecture and if run long enough to preclude stored energy in the device would be very convincing to anyone. Set up a demo with credible observers and I think yo would make a news splash. Perhaps you would need a small series of demo to cascade from the already interested and open-minded with some scientific credibility to the bigger names from credible institutions of industry and academia.

            The big question is does Rossi (+IH ?) think they have more to gain than lose by such a demo.

          • MorganMck

            Calorimetry is always going to be an issue. We have seen this already in the tests performed to date. Even those who do not claim fraud or conspiracy think that the thermal output from the electrical input has significant measurement error.

            A straight electrical input/output (and even self-looped after start-up) would remove all this conjecture and if run long enough to preclude stored energy in the device would be very convincing to anyone. Set up a demo with credible observers and I think yo would make a news splash. Perhaps you would need a small series of demo to cascade from the already interested and open-minded with some scientific credibility to the bigger names from credible institutions of industry and academia.

            The big question is does Rossi (+IH ?) think they have more to gain than lose by such a demo.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I propose this calorimetry – the LENR steam engine with a known size would be able to accelerate a known load at a certain rate – more than that would be anomalous.

            A “closed loop” “fairground” rail-road ride could be set to run indefinitely with no re-fuelling for a year. The boiler could be really small and require no stoking.

            I bet some steam engine enthusiasts would do the engineering for free.

            I still like our proposal to him, to heat a veteran hydrotherapy pool.

          • Axil Axil

            Unlike the first MFMP reactor test, Ross spreads out his fuel very thinly over a large ares to keep the reaction from getting out of hand in any given spot. Rossi looks like he switched over to the way Piantelli produces fuel by surface plating on a solid substrate, Do these new insights inspire new methods in the way MFMP does things?

          • Bob Greenyer

            We are actively considering options for future tests.

          • Warthog

            Schwartz/Nanor did this at MIT in Hagelstein’s short course. Students had full access to the device and measurement system, made measurements themselves, etc. It “might” have convinced some members of the course, but it changed not one thing with the skeptopaths.

          • Nigel Appleton

            Sorry – Orville and Wilbur flew their stringbags alongside passenger planes???

            Trains, perhaps?

          • Gerard McEk

            I guess so…

          • Gerard McEk

            I guess so…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – I edited my distraction derived error.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – I edited my distraction derived error.

          • Nigel Appleton

            Sorry – Orville and Wilbur flew their stringbags alongside passenger planes???

            Trains, perhaps?

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes Bob, but we are living in different times now. There must be an easier method considering our mass media and Internet. Maybe the 1 MW plant will be sufficiently convincing (at least for the industry)?

          • Pekka Janhunen

            No need to convince now. Once devices (any type: industrial or domestic) are on sale and if they work, word will spread and others will buy.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            No need to convince now. Once devices (any type: industrial or domestic) are on sale and if they work, word will spread and others will buy.

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes Bob, but we are living in different times now. There must be an easier method considering our mass media and Internet. Maybe the 1 MW plant will be sufficiently convincing (at least for the industry)?

          • Alain Samoun
          • clovis ray

            She is a beauty, i love these old engines,

          • clovis ray

            She is a beauty, i love these old engines,

          • Very pretty but just a tad dated for a cold fusion demonstrator perhaps. Something more like this, maybe:

            http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/leader-diag.jpg

            Or one of these:

            http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/picturev/t9.jpg

            http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/gtthree.jpg

          • Alain Samoun

            Nope! I think my is more classy,let’s have AR to choose.

          • Very pretty but just a tad dated for a cold fusion demonstrator perhaps. Something more like this, maybe:

            http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/leader-diag.jpg

            Or one of these:

            http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/picturev/t9.jpg

            http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/gtthree.jpg

          • Alain Samoun
          • bachcole

            You meant “flew it alongside passenger trains“.

            But even then, some people refused to believe it. Don’t underestimate the power of mental prisons, and echo chambers only make things worse. There are still plenty of people who will look you in the eye and honestly say that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, man did not land on the Moon, that eating anything that you want will have no impact upon health, etc. etc. etc.

          • bachcole

            You meant “flew it alongside passenger trains“.

            But even then, some people refused to believe it. Don’t underestimate the power of mental prisons, and echo chambers only make things worse. There are still plenty of people who will look you in the eye and honestly say that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, man did not land on the Moon, that eating anything that you want will have no impact upon health, etc. etc. etc.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You are right – I corrected it – problem of trying to write something with 3 children pulling at your legs.

          • bachcole

            Life is tough. (:->)

          • Bob Greenyer

            You are right – I corrected it – problem of trying to write something with 3 children pulling at your legs.

          • Brokeeper

            I think I mentioned this before, as a teenager my neighbor was Ivonette Wright Millar, niece to the Wright Brothers. Orville took her up in the plane to buzz the trains below. She was the youngest American child to fly then. She had her uncles’ wooden propeller from that plane hung above the mantel.

          • bachcole

            I remember that you mentioned that years ago. (:->)

        • Bob Greenyer

          The often cited Wright Brothers invited people to view the plane flying, they even flew it alongside passenger trains. You can not deny something when you see it with your own eyes.

          Perhaps Rossi could make a secure steam train – sleep in that and drive it around the country.

        • henk

          Fascinating as it may be, the E-Cat X is far from market introduction. Leaving technical issues aside, the main hurdle is certification. Unless the working principles are fully understood and supported by mainstream scientists the only way forward is to build a savety track-record with many industrial 1 MW plants operating for years.
          The latter seems to be the present IH strategy, steady as it goes. I bet they must have a full orderbook, all depending on the outcome of the 1MW-test.
          A high-profile demo of the E-Cat X now would be counter-productive, with a real risk of creating a lot of resistance and lawsuits about perceived safety issues.
          So we have to wait it out, be prepared for a long ride.

          • Gerard McEk

            Maybe maybe so, Henk, but why has AR revealed it to us then?

          • Rossi seems very human and quite emotional – I think he may feel some sense of obligation towards the small band of blog posters who have (by and large) supported his efforts for a very long time, even in the absence of any product on the market. For this reason he may try to chuck us as many small bones as he is able, within the commercial constraints he works under.

          • Rossi seems very human and quite emotional – I think he may feel some sense of obligation towards the small band of blog posters who have (by and large) supported his efforts for a very long time, even in the absence of any product on the market. For this reason he may try to chuck us as many small bones as he is able, within the commercial constraints he works under.

          • Gerard McEk

            Maybe maybe so, Henk, but why has AR revealed it to us then?

        • Axil Axil

          Without the pressure of competition, Rossi is well served to just sit back and do more R&D. Why turn on all the world as a competitor? He can just add to his lead until the cows come home. If we want LENR out in the world, then a competitor to Rossi must force his hand.

          • LarryJ

            Your comment assumes that Rossi has no financial backers to answer to. He is not an island. Once they have a product then IH will run with it and they will happily leave Rossi to pursue his next project. IH will most likely have a product at the end of the current 1 year test F9.

        • LarryJ

          “but when the responses of those who BOUGHT the PRODUCT are good, then these sceptics will soon deminish”

          My point exactly. The only demo that truly counts is the one you do yourself. As Rossi would say the “the rest is useless chatters”. There will be no more demos until products are on the shelf. As for convincing customers he has stated that he already has billions in pre-orders. Even if a small percentage carry through it will give him a good start.

    • Alan DeAngelis
    • Alan DeAngelis
  • f sedei

    I agree about the taxes. But, the American public would be more than satisfied with a 30 or 50% cut in overall costs. Maybe that can be achieved.

  • Stephen

    Much as I like the idea of a home unit taking care of all personal domestic energy needs, I think Andrea Rossi’s dream brings a lot of benefits at community level and also importantly benefits for the efficient distribution of the technology in large volume especially in the short term.

    There has been concern raised about the possibility of sudden disruption and change that this new technology would bring to society and how this could be handled. I think that this dream offers a way through the transition that would also make more efficient the adoption and development of this new technology. Many of the skills required for installation of these unit it’s woul I imagine revolve around services like electrical, plumbing and thermal distribution at least initially until the point where the devices and there peripheral components can be easily installed, replaced and repaired by anyone.

    During this transition phase utility companies could be well placed to distribute and maintain this technology. Quite possibly their existing network of facilities, components, maintenance control and planning could be adapted to this new technology and since they could buy and distribute on large scale economies of scale may also become an advantage… Personal domestic units may be easily available but utility companies that can distribute and maintain easily on large scale may be able to bring in cost reductions especially when the technology is new. Imagine 120000 lamp posts. Easily accessible to maintence, With 10000 units replaced a month in maintenance cycle. Those same utility companies could then also provide the skilled engineers and training for maintenance of home units.

    In time I suppose as the devices and peripheral equipment become smaller increasingly reliable and easy to replace by anyone or even automatically by machines, much like as happened with the home computer. May be then there will be a kind of reversal… Households providing excess energy to the community. But this process of transition using Utility companies could smooth the transition to the new technology at the same time as bringing advantages of economies of scale to bring down the initial costs.

  • Stephen

    Much as I like the idea of a home unit taking care of all personal domestic energy needs, I think Andrea Rossi’s dream brings a lot of benefits at community level and also importantly benefits for the efficient distribution of the technology in large volume especially in the short term.

    There has been concern raised about the possibility of sudden disruption and change that this new technology would bring to society and how this could be handled. I think that this dream offers a way through the transition that would also make more efficient the adoption and development of this new technology. Many of the skills required for installation of these unit it’s woul I imagine revolve around services like electrical, plumbing and thermal distribution at least initially until the point where the devices and there peripheral components can be easily installed, replaced and repaired by anyone.

    During this transition phase utility companies could be well placed to distribute and maintain this technology. Quite possibly their existing network of facilities, components, maintenance control and planning could be adapted to this new technology and since they could buy and distribute on large scale economies of scale may also become an advantage… Personal domestic units may be easily available but utility companies that can distribute and maintain easily on large scale may be able to bring in cost reductions especially when the technology is new. Imagine 120000 lamp posts. Easily accessible to maintence, With 10000 units replaced a month in maintenance cycle. Those same utility companies could then also provide the skilled engineers and training for maintenance of home units.

    In time I suppose as the devices and peripheral equipment become smaller increasingly reliable and easy to replace by anyone or even automatically by machines, much like as happened with the home computer. May be then there will be a kind of reversal… Households providing excess energy to the community. But this process of transition using Utility companies could smooth the transition to the new technology at the same time as bringing advantages of economies of scale to bring down the initial costs.

  • US_Citizen71

    What if the E-Cat X works by way of two different fuel loads one on either side of the heating layer. Could an electrical potential be created due to different fuel composition in the two layers?

    • Oystein Lande

      Hmm, think tapping induced currents in the steel layers as I explained below is more likely And closer to what has been experienced by others…..

      • US_Citizen71

        Think of this way, why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor designed to be a test bed for a hotter reaction? The modification Rossi made to produce electricity appears to have been done during one shift. Cooling time has to be included leaving 8-10 hours to do the modification and get it going again. He also did it on a spur of the moment inspiration. How likely would he have the needed materials around to jury-rig a method to tap an induced current. Throw that into Occam’s Razor with modifying the core to allow an electrical contact be made with two different layers of the wafer. That is the line of reasoning my post came from.

        Could different LENR reactions have different electrical charges? If so then the E-Cat X could be a LENR based battery. The core drawing from Ecco looks like a layout for a battery cell.

        http://imgur.com/hyzmaN7.png

        • US_Citizen71

          The dual fueling could have been done originally to have two temperature modes. A low with one fuel for low usage times and the other for high demand times that only kicks in at a hotter temperature range so is idle but able to to be triggered quickly. Tests and replication attempts seem to indicate different fuel materials react at different temperatures and controlling the reaction via temperature seems to be Rossi’s method of control. Might he have the knowledge and know how now to build a hybrid core like I describe?

          • I can totally understand Rossi being moved by such a dream.
            Seems like more than wish fulfillment. Sometimes such dreams are from our
            larger Self that knows much more than our conscious ego, part of us that is beyond
            time and space as we know it. Whether such a dream will be realized, we shall
            see, but I find it encouraging. He could have had a dream of utter failure.

            It was a dream that got me interested in CF in 2012. A
            technician arrived at my house with a small canister. He came at six month intervals
            to replace a small cartridge to a glass device that had no exhaust system.
            Three days later I read an article about Cold Fusion.

            The dream has meaning to Rossi and it has meaning to a lot
            of us I’m sure. Maybe 2016 will be the tipping point we’ve been longing for
            where the world will realize Cold Fusion and change beneath our feet.
            Godspeed A. Rossi.

          • LarryJ

            Look around you. The world is changing beneath our feet every day and it barely causes a ripple. Where were drones a short while ago. How come Jimmy Carter is not kicking up daisies. What about the Ebola vaccine. Once something is “real” people just accept it and start using it.The day Rossi puts his products on the market will be just another day. Oh look dear! a new fangled $50 heater. Let’s try it in the TV room. If it doesn’t work we can take it back. Ho Hum. Few people are endowed with a sense of wonder that the types who follow this website are. I doubt very much that the UN will make a major announcement to the people of planet earth any more than they would for the other miracles that we accept every day without a thought.

          • Mats002

            This is post #359 which make this thread longer than previous record of 358 (the one about electricity from the X-Cat 🙂

            Happy 2016 from the Canary Islands, 27 C at aqualand with happy kids running around.

          • Jarea

            Lucky you!

          • Larry, flight, relativity, space-travel, computers, internet, television, hubble… I’d put Cold Fusion above most of these as far as a real game-changer. Our economy is based on energy, not to mention how clean an energy CF is.
            Perhaps the world changing is subjective, but I disagree the world at large would be so nonchalant about it.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            “Indeed, some of the Wrights’ most vicious skeptics were supporters (believers) of other aviation pioneers.” This has a strong parallel with Rossi’s case.

        • Agaricus

          “why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor…”

          Another possibility might be that Rossi is still using ‘frequencies’ to stimulate CF reactions in the fuel layers. The ‘ceramic heater’ component may consist of spiral-wound flat coils embedded within a ceramic matrix and driven at radio frequencies to heat the wafer by means of eddy currents induced in the steel plates.

          The patent below describes some interesting effects that arise between multiple Tesla (flat spiral) coils when the RF input is tuned to the coils, the main item of interest being the production of intense EM fields in the spaces between the coils, when RF input is correctly tuned.

          http://www.google.com/patents/US20100059692

          http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US20100059692A1/US20100059692A1-20100311-D00000.png

          This raises the possibility that Rossi may be using non-resonant RF driver frequencies to heat the wafers, and resonant RF (matched to coils) to produce EM fields to drive the CF reactions

          It seems possible that as I suggested in an earlier post, Rossi’s inspiration was to look for current induced back into the flat coils while the wafers are in SSM, requiring no power input.

          The above would of course depend on the idea that some kind of oscillating field is directly created by the fuel layers when CF reactions are occurring.

          Does anyone who actually knows what they are talking about (unlike myself) see any merit in the suggestions above?

      • US_Citizen71

        I do not think a flat sheet of steel will pick up an induced current and voltage potential to the degree that you would develop appreciable electrical power. Induction of that degree usually requires a coil.

        • Axil Axil

          Like in a vacuum tube, a grid can pick up electrons if the EMF is electrostatic. A coil is for magnetic EMF collection.

          • US_Citizen71

            Sadly vacuum tube properties were not taught in my electronics courses as I was born after the transistor was firmly entrenched. I’ll have to do some remedial study.

  • US_Citizen71

    What if the E-Cat X works by way of two different fuel loads one on either side of the heating layer. Could an electrical potential be created due to different fuel composition in the two layers? Would tapping that potential change the heat output? Making the variable control be nothing more than using or not using the possible electricity?

  • US_Citizen71

    What if the E-Cat X works by way of two different fuel loads one on either side of the heating layer. Could an electrical potential be created due to different fuel composition in the two layers? Would tapping that potential change the heat output? Making the variable control be nothing more than using or not using the possible electricity?

    • Oystein Lande

      Hmm, think tapping induced currents in the steel layers as I explained below is more likely And closer to what has been experienced by others…..

      • US_Citizen71

        Think of this way, why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor designed to be a test bed for a hotter reaction? The modification Rossi made to produce electricity appears to have been done during one shift. Cooling time has to be included leaving 8-10 hours to do the modification and get it going again. He also did it on a spur of the moment inspiration. How likely would he have the needed materials around to jury-rig a method to tap an induced current. Throw that into Occam’s Razor with modifying the core to allow an electrical contact be made with two different layers of the wafer. That is the line of reasoning my post came from.

        Could different LENR reactions have different electrical charges? If so then the E-Cat X could be a LENR based battery. The core drawing from Ecco looks like a layout for a battery cell.

        http://imgur.com/hyzmaN7.png

      • US_Citizen71

        Think of this way, why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor designed to be a test bed for a hotter reaction? The modification Rossi made to produce electricity appears to have been done during one shift. Cooling time has to be included leaving 8-10 hours to do the modification and get it going again. He also did it on a spur of the moment inspiration. How likely would he have the needed materials around to jury-rig a method to tap an induced current. Throw that into Occam’s Razor with modifying the core to allow an electrical contact be made with two different layers of the wafer. That is the line of reasoning my post came from.

        Could different LENR reactions have different electrical charges? If so then the E-Cat X could be a LENR based battery. The core drawing from Ecco looks like a layout for a battery cell.

        http://imgur.com/hyzmaN7.png

        • US_Citizen71

          The dual fueling could have been done originally to have two temperature modes. A low with one fuel for low usage times and the other for high demand times that only kicks in at a hotter temperature range so is idle but able to to be triggered quickly. Tests and replication attempts seem to indicate different fuel materials react at different temperatures and controlling the reaction via temperature seems to be Rossi’s method of control at least early on. Might he have the knowledge and know how now to build a hybrid core like I describe?

        • US_Citizen71

          The dual fueling could have been done originally to have two temperature modes. A low with one fuel for low usage times and the other for high demand times that only kicks in at a hotter temperature range so is idle but able to to be triggered quickly. Tests and replication attempts seem to indicate different fuel materials react at different temperatures and controlling the reaction via temperature seems to be Rossi’s method of control at least early on. Might he have the knowledge and know how now to build a hybrid core like I describe?

        • Post moved.

      • US_Citizen71

        I do not think a flat sheet of steel will pick up an induced current and voltage potential to the degree that you would develop appreciable electrical power. Induction of that degree usually requires a coil.

        • Axil Axil

          Like in a vacuum tube, a grid can pick up electrons if the EMF is electrostatic. A coil is for magnetic EMF collection.

        • Axil Axil

          Like in a vacuum tube, a grid can pick up electrons if the EMF is electrostatic. A coil is for magnetic EMF collection.

          • US_Citizen71

            Sadly vacuum tube properties were not taught in my electronics courses as I was born after the transistor was firmly entrenched. I’ll have to do some remedial study.

      • US_Citizen71

        I do not think a flat sheet of steel will pick up an induced current and voltage potential to the degree that you would develop appreciable electrical power. Induction of that degree usually requires a coil.

    • Oystein Lande

      Hmm, think tapping induced currents in the steel layers as I explained below is more likely And closer to what has been experienced by others…..

  • Gerard McEk

    Maybe maybe so, Henk, but why has AR revealed it to us then?

    • Agaricus

      Rossi seems very human and quite emotional – I think he may feel some sense of obligation towards the small band of blog posters who have (by and large) supported his efforts for a very long time, even in the absence of any product on the market. For this reason he may try to chuck us as many small bones as he is able, within the commercial constraints he works under.

  • Observer

    Guaranteed annual income only works when there is no shortage of resources. Otherwise, prices will rise to determine the “haves” and “have-nots”.

    • EEStorFanFibb

      I don’t follow you. In all the reading I’ve done on the subject it has never come up that “prices will rise.” I say we try it and see what happens. Where it has been tried it’s worked extremely well.

      On a moral basis, nobody should be denied food, shelter, clothing, or healthcare just because there are fewer and fewer jobs that provide a livable wage. In a world of high and growing abundance – such as this one – these basic necessities of modern life above should be human rights not privileges.

      And don’t bother speaking next about the moral hazards of not having to work to afford a decent/comfortable life. That’s just misplaced dogma. The real and most tangible moral argument is for reducing suffering and poverty. Society wins when poverty is eliminated.

      And there is a strong utilitarian basis behind it. A basic income also is much more efficient than the complicated, means tested bureaucratic programs we have now. A basic income supports the tenants of liberty and freedom. A well designed system has no restrictions on how you spend the money. And it must be universal.

      Meanwhile, for all practical purposes there is no real shortage of resources. The world is awash in wealth and resources. It’s just distributed very poorly. And if LENR technologies can go to market successfully and dramatically reduce the cost of energy we can significantly increase the recycling of materials which will provide even more affordable goods/resources to the masses. Recycling takes a fair bit of energy and this energy cost is a barrier to a cleaner and more equitable world.

      • Observer

        Supply and Demand. If there is more demand than supply, how is it decided who gets what they want and who does not? Either you have free trade and it goes to the highest bidder, or you have power brokers engaged in favoritism.

        If everyone has a guaranteed income and no one decides to work, shortages will be inevitable.

        • LarryJ

          Thanks Bachole. The full catastrophe I’m afraid. I scored a girlfriend.

  • LuFong

    That’s a lot of lamps. Think of the density.

    The COP of 10 is very good news. He really hasn’t said much about how much electricity can be produced. Still I appreciate Rossi sharing some numbers and his vision.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      There is NOTHING in his post that suggests a COP of 10, nor can anything that suggests or hints you calculate the COP.

      The reference to the 50 watts was NEVER in the context of input energy.

      Rossi is simply saying we have 500 watts, 50 will go to powering the STREETLIGHT, not the LENR consuming.
      Then what is left over is 450 watts.

      A modern streetlight today consumes 50 watts. So Rossi was not in this context
      suggesting that 50 watts is required for input power – only that the streetlamp
      going to grab 50, and you have 450 left over.

      The simple idea here is that if you take an existing city and swap out the lightbulb and re-place it with a LENR + bulb, then you have potentially millions of watts available. A
      500 watt LENR device is going to be VERY small – and solid state.

      In fact the package with the light bulb(s) and control likely not going to be much larger than an existing bulb assembly. This is especially today – Modern Street lights are LED – and consume about 50 watts.

      The excess power can be fed back into the grid, or the heat can be pumped into streets to remove snow for example.

      Rossi not revealed the COP, and the idea that after so many years on a post about a dream of his, that such a slipup would occur is laughable.

      The 50 watts in this context is the power used to light the streetlamp.

      If the device can produce more electricity then required to run the device, then context of the input power? Then the COP is meaningless here.
      You don’t need any input power in the scenario Rossi outlines- you have ZERO input power.
      And I suspect the COP is FAR higher then 10, unless readers here think when Rossi says a VERY HIGH COP he means 10 and again anyone reading Ross’s statements for the past few years will agree that VERY HIGH means something WAY WAY beyond 10.
      So a VERY HIGH cop is only 10? Come on folks!

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • LindbergofSwed

        Brilliant

      • LuFong

        Pretty sure of yourself there Albert? I have to disagree but with Rossi-speak it is very difficult to truly understand exactly what he means so I wouldn’t rule anything out. Happy New Year.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Well, I don’t think anyone going to accept that a VERY high COP is 10. A COP of 6 is just commercially viable. A COP of 10 is a good start, but there is really NO reasonable way to think or accept that a COP of 10 is very high in any context I can cook up.

          And the fluke of a modern street lamp being 50 watts? I suppose this is another accidental comment by Rossi also?

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • LuFong

            Firstly Rossi is unwilling to disclose specifics of his E-CAT X for a number of reasons but I believe he wanted to tell us something in a way that cannot be considered a disclosure. Hence the dream and the very subjective interpretation of what it all means.

            When I read it I (and others) interpreted the E-Cat X to directly produce light, electricity, and heat. This also is consistent with Engineer Fabiani’s description of Rossi’s devices. I’m not the only one–when Rossi was asked about this he gave his standard cannot disclose answer.

            I also interpreted Rossi’s numbers as a COP of 10. Again, I am also not the only one and it appears pretty obvious to me. Again Rossi could not just say a COP of 10 but he could through some numbers out where the inference can easily be made.

            I’m willing to wager that by far most street lights are not 50Watts but higher, even LED ones. A quick search on LED street light wattage confirms this (re.g., see http://www.seesmartled.com/product/streetlights ). So I’m not sure where you are getting your data but at best it is only a coincidence that some street lights might be 50W. I doubt Rossi even knows this.

            The E-CAT X still needs current as input and short of a battery cannot rely on it’s own power to start up. Street lights are already wired so why not replace them with E-CAT X’s which produce light as well as electricity and heat? At least I think that is Rossi’s thinking. Interesting idea but I’m not sure if I want to live in a city that is constantly lit. Parking lots, OK. Green houses, Yes. Commercial streets, maybe. Residential areas, no especially given the density required.

            A COP of 10 is very good (remember high temperature) especially if some of that is in the form of directly produced electricity (no conversion losses) Unfortunately Rossi has been very mum about how much electricity is produced and hasn’t answered the question when directly asked. He did say that it is variable and that in his dream 1/2 is heat and the other half is light and electricity. He does imply that it is over 50 watts since his E-Cat X street lamp produced electricity.

            Anyway that’s the way I see it. Interesting but I would like to see a real one, however low a COP. I can do the dreaming myself.

          • Agaricus

            I agree with you that Rossi’s ‘dream’ may be his way of encoding some information, but unfortunately it is so ambiguous that it doesn’t seem very helpful.

            From a practical POV, street light wiring will be rated for the amperage drawn by the lamps originally fitted, although these may well have been replaced by lower wattage LEDs. This will almost certainly mean that the wires would overheat if any attempt was made to feed back to the grid a current 10X the lamp ratings, meaning that the entire system would need to be replaced to work in this way.

            Perhaps we need to look for some less literal intended meaning, but if so this escapes me entirely, unless your surmise about COP is correct. Given his other hints that e-cat x runs in SSM for extended periods however, I for one would be extremely disappointed to learn that the average output was only a factor of 10 over input.

          • orsobubu

            Hi Bachcole, those gulags were filled with communists, so don’t worry about them because you’re not a communist. Also, first gulags were invented by british imperialists during the capitalist boer wars in africa. Lieutenant General Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell, OM GCMG GCVO KCB, the Scout Movement starter, was the genius.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi is producing too much heat to make a LENR battery possible. He needs to up the frequency of the EMF he produces into the visible or UV range.

  • giovanniontheweb

    so far conservation of charge applies, therefore, in order to be interesting for electrical use, the potential is the deal.

    • Axil Axil

      so far conservation of charge applies…

      How can you make that determination?

      • artefact

        On JONP:

        “Frank Acland January 1st, 2016 at 4:09 PM
        Dear Andrea,
        I hope that your vision might be adjustable to meet the needs of rural dwellers. One critically important aspect of the E-Cat, in my opinion, is that it could make possible affordable energy production for people who live in remote areas of the world where an existing energy infrastructure is not already well developed.
        Best wishes,
        Frank Acland

        Andrea Rossi January 1st, 2016 at 4:31 PM
        Frank Acland,
        I think that in remote areas there are other technologies more fit.
        Warm Regards, A.R.”

        and (Karl Henrik Malmqvist / Rossi):

        “For me the off-the-grid aspect of the E-Cat has been the most intriguing part. Energy off-the-grid is much more valuable than extra energy where we already have access to the grid.
        AR:
        There remains to be resolved the problem of safety, that cannot depend from the good standing of the equipment.”

        Are there allready (secret) official requirements for him to say that so that a migration to the country side away from the city does not take place (because of the new energy feedom)?
        Where does the remote area begin?
        What does a grid suited for the e-cat look like?
        What if in an area from time to time there are smaler outages?
        Will only bigger cities get the new fire?
        Questions over questions…

        • Axil Axil

          Holmlid uses light from a laser to stimulate his version of the LENR reaction, In a LENR battery, heat production is a safety problem. It is a better design to use another type of EMF simulant to produce the LENR reaction. If heat production is removed, a meltdown could not occur. The worse that would happen is a flash of light like a flash bulb. If the reaction stimulant was electrons, all that would happen in a blowup would be an electric arc. There is much room for Rossi competitors to produce a better LENR product then what Rossi has done so far even if that current X Cat product is indeed wonderful right now.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You need to keep people in cities to keep them dependent on the state and to make them taxable.

          As I said in an earlier post – only 2% of Indians pay income tax – this is largely because 850million of them basically look after themselves and what money they do earn is below the tax threshold. I lived there from 2008 – 2012 right though the worst part of the recession – in the IT hubs it was carnage – but out in the rural areas it was like “recession, what recession??”

          Living off-grid should be a right – growing your own food is wonderfully enjoyable and if you have the land and you can farm it sustainably/bio and avoid seeds with terminator genes in, inflation is meaningless – it takes largely the same effort to grow a crop in 2016 as it would in 1976. Moving forward – rental of LENR tractors and autonomous drones for seed planting, fertilisation and non-herbicide/pesticide weed and insect management (extraction/termination) will liberate farming and it’s traditional challenges.

          For the record, my father and grandfather were farmers – I grew up on one.

          • GreenWin

            Bob, regardless of the good doc’s vision, if the E-CatX can be modularized at 500-1kW wafer-based units – building a 5-10kW CHP is simple engineering. As you well know, the independent farm was a self sustaining homestead. With implementations of LENR, it can be again

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yay to that!

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            I think Rossi is just speaking softly so the utility industry will not mount a counter-offensive.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, JP Morgan to Tesla: “Where do you put the meter?”

          • Omega Z

            India has a High Corporate tax. Anyone who buys anything pays taxes. A Corporate tax is a means to tax the masses when the proper structure is not in place for a general income tax. Corporations do not pay tax. They are used as a Government tax collection agency.

            “seeds with terminator genes” This is just part of nature. A percentage of seeds will be sterile even among heirloom seeds. It’s a bigger problem when you mix breeds to produce hybrid seed. Conspiracist would have you believe the seed companies have created this to keep you from processing your own seed. They have in fact worked to reduce this issue. Farmers don’t want seed with a 50% germination rate.

            A portion of the seed produced by hybrid plant will in fact grow. If one wanted to spend a couple decades developing it, This sterility applies to animals as well. To get a mule, you breed a donkey to a horse. 2 of the same family, different breeds. Mules with extremely few exceptions are sterile.

            As to “in the rural areas it was like -recession, what recession?”. When you’re at the bottom of the economic ladder, there is no down of which to go. You have nothing so you lose nothing.

            And if you want to go off grid, join the Amish, but note, you will still pay taxes. Taxes pay for roads, bridges, schools, clean water, hospitals etc… Unless you wish to forfeit these amenities.

          • Bob Greenyer

            You made my point for me… In India, so many are self sufficient or largely look after themselves that they hardly buy a thing – how do you tax that – you don’t. They do trade but not funny money for real things – they trade real things for real things, like coconuts for rice.

            Get someone in a city and they are forced into dependence and BECAUSE they then HAVE to buy stuff to exist the then pay purchase taxes.

            The terminator gene comment was a minor part of a much more significant comment on self sufficiency and the effort it takes to grow a crop now and in the past. A deliberate attempt to damage self sufficiency in a community might take 1 bad crop. My father and grandfather were hybridisation specialists – particularly in Chrysanthemum flowers, I live in Brno, where Gregor Mendel discovered Hybridisation / hereditary principals.

            I can assure you that many of the Indians you characterise as being at the bottom of the economic ladder have happy and fulfilling lives – It is a matter of expectation and perception – being able to pay taxes, drive long distances to buy food that you have no connection to and rack up a lot of debt does not necessarily lead to well-being.

            Many of the people that live like I have seen have no need for motorways and bridges, they live within a close nit environment/community often with tracks – they pay for their own medical care (using family/community gold as insurance) and are responsible for sourcing their own water – in Kerala – 70% of water comes from a well. They give to the rest of the world by not over-consuming every day. It is a different mindset for sure and I am not suggesting people that have lived differently should or could go there – I am just reporting on the way it is.

            Having LENR in these communities would help them sterilise water and cook food without burning cow dung or denuding forest and would help them in many other ways such as lighting.

        • Axil Axil

          Rossi could be boxing himself into the grid. Rossi might be doing what Edison did with DC current. Edison loved that direct current but AC was better and this competitors drove Edison out of his company: Edison general Electric by using AC current. Edison’s company turns their backs to his technology and adopted a better technology. This might happen to Rossi if he is not flexible in his dreaming.

          • Omega Z

            If you want cheap energy, it will require a grid. The grid will be decentralized & smaller, but it will be a grid. When this technology is available, should you want a stand alone system, you can build 1, but it will no longer be cheap energy.

            I think when the dust settles, For those who want a stand alone home system, a lot of people are going to suffer sticker shock. You may get your energy for 3 or 4 cents a kilowatt hour for the next 20 years, but your going to have to pay for it all at the time of installation. The alternative would be a bank loan that you pay by the month.

          • Agaricus

            Yes, national grids will persist, as you say in decentralised form. Most of the heavy duty stuff for distribution from power stations will be removed, but the balancing functions of grids will still be useful, and possibly more efficient than individual installations requiring private maintenance.

            More to the point though is the fact that only grid supplies will allow electricity to continue to be metered and charged by the unit so that energy ‘utilities’ can continue to make profits, and governments can still skim revenues from the system. I believe that it is inevitable that ‘safety concerns’ will used by governments to prevent sales of domestic power generators and heaters for the foreseeable future.

            Better half a loaf than none I guess.

        • GreenWin

          As Buck notes below, President Obama is reading a biography of the Wright Brothers while on vacation. It is an excellent analogy to the development of LENR and the E-Cat.

          “David McCullough, two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize, tells the surprising, profoundly American story of Wilbur and Orville Wright.

          Far more than a couple of unschooled Dayton bicycle mechanics who happened to hit on success, they were men of exceptional courage and determination, and of far-ranging intellectual interests and ceaseless curiosity, much of which they attributed to their upbringing. The house they lived in had no electricity or indoor plumbing, but there were books aplenty, supplied mainly by their preacher father, and they never stopped reading.”

          If Warren G. Harding had known the revolution the Wrights would create with their historic flight in 1903 – he might have been more than a one-term President. Considering the acknowledged work on LENR at Navy and DoD facilities, and the recent paper by Pam Boss (SPAWAR) and Larry Foresley (JWK, University Texas, Global Energy) — it is improbable Obama is not read into Greg Goble’s “U.S. LENR Manhattan Project.” http://bit.ly/1O03JE9

          It would certainly be a bright feather to become the President who quietly supported the New Fire revolution. It took nearly a decade for consensus science to acknowledge the Wright Brothers revolution. More time than Dottore Rossi has been building E-Cat reactors.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I think the total news black-out in the
            mainstream media is our best indicator that the E-Cat is real.

          • LarryJ

            It’s human nature to employ conspiracy theories to explain the inexplicable but I think this recent essay by a professor of philosophy is a far more rational explanation for the news blackout. Cold fusion is a Reputation Trap and abandon all hope ye who enter there. Genius is uncommon but courage is truly rare.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/21/cambridge-university-professor-huw-price-on-the-reputation-trap-of-cold-fusion/

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Conspiring is a normal part of primate
            behavior. Chimpanzees conspire and it seems like the 2% of our genes
            that we don’t share with the chimps are devoted primarily to conspiring.

          • US_Citizen71

            That would explain the popularity of the works of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli wouldn’t it?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Now you have me thinking. Is it disparaging to the chimps to compare them to these guys?

          • US_Citizen71

            LOL : )

          • GreenWin

            Yep. :>)

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I think Hitler was the person who coined the phrase “conspiracy theory” after the 1933 the Reichstag fire.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            John Bockris at Texas A&M found tritium in his DOE funded replication of F&P’s experiment in 1989. So why did the good professor refer to the work of Fleischmann and Pons as “debunked”.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Pardon me.
            …”debunked”?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Why are all the pedigreed institutions that set LENR back a
            quarter of a century putting that “debunked” spin on the story?

          • LarryJ

            This would happen because the good professor knew that his fate would likely be the same as F&P’s. He would have been under a lot of peer pressure to toe the party line. The mainstream physicists of the time would likely have had two driving motives. One would be that they “knew” proton to proton fusion was impossible and any hint that it was possible would have reduced funding for their current hot fusion research. Physicists have mortgages too. It would have been very courageous for the good professor to pursue the issue but as I mentioned above, courage is truly rare. Very few in the physics community would dare challenge an existing paradigm regardless of experimental results because their reputation would be ruined and their experimental results ignored as the result of their obvious incompetence. They know the system better than any, but that doesn’t make it “a total news black-out in the mainstream media” as you originally stated. No journalist is going to challenge an accredited mainstream physicist on issues of physics.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I’m not referring to 1989. He recently referred to F&P as “debunked” in his “Reputation Trap” article.

        • artefact

          Thanks Andreas Moraitis for asking Rossi:
          “Since you mentioned safety: I wonder what would happen with an E-Cat that is driven by the grid in case of a power outage?”
          Rossi answere seems to be (the other way around) the what would be if the grid has an outage and the x-cat can not dump its electricity into it 🙂
          “I have a good experience in this field, because I made many plants that produced electric energy from organic materials driven by the grid. There are specific control systems for the purpose; they can also disconnect the generator from the grid if necessary for the time necessary to the reparations.”

        • US_Citizen71

          Maybe he is speaking strictly as an engineer. Many have posted in the past about implementation of E-Cats being best suited for installation in small grids due to ‘what do you do with the excess power of an continuos running E-Cat?’. A stand alone installation likely won’t have enough demand 24/7/365 to use all of the power generated, so you would either need to use a small one and store energy for high demand periods or just let it go to waste. So strictly in regards to the KISS principle and total efficiency I would agree with him that rural installs might not be the best place for an E-Cat.

      • giovanniontheweb

        Hi Axil Axil simply because nobody could demonstrate the contrary so far, yet it doesn’t mean that it will apply tomorrow morning, in such a case quite few books will become part of the past

  • giovanniontheweb

    so far conservation of charge applies, therefore, in order to be interesting for electrical use, the potential is the deal.

    • Axil Axil

      so far conservation of charge applies…

      How can you make that determination?

      • giovanniontheweb

        Hi Axil Axil simply because nobody could demonstrate the contrary so far, yet it doesn’t mean that it will apply tomorrow morning, in such a case quite few books will become part of the past

    • Axil Axil

      so far conservation of charge applies…

      How can you make that determination?

  • giovanniontheweb

    so far conservation of charge applies, therefore, in order to be interesting for electrical use, the potential is the deal.

  • I can totally understand Rossi being moved by such a dream.
    Seems like more than wish fulfillment. Sometimes such dreams are from our
    larger Self that knows much more than our conscious ego, part of us that is beyond
    time and space as we know it. Whether such a dream will be realized, we shall
    see, but I find it encouraging. He could have had a dream of utter failure.

    It was a dream that got me interested in CF in 2012. A
    technician arrived at my house with a small canister. He came at six month intervals
    to replace a small cartridge to a glass device that had no exhaust system.
    Three days later I read an article about Cold Fusion.

    The dream has meaning to Rossi and it has meaning to a lot
    of us I’m sure. Maybe 2016 will be the tipping point we’ve been longing for
    where the world will realize Cold Fusion and change beneath our feet.
    Godspeed A. Rossi.

  • I can totally understand Rossi being moved by such a dream.
    Seems like more than wish fulfillment. Sometimes such dreams are from our
    larger Self that knows much more than our conscious ego, part of us that is beyond
    time and space as we know it. Whether such a dream will be realized, we shall
    see, but I find it encouraging. He could have had a dream of utter failure.

    It was a dream that got me interested in CF in 2012. A
    technician arrived at my house with a small canister. He came at six month intervals
    to replace a small cartridge to a glass device that had no exhaust system.
    Three days later I read an article about Cold Fusion.

    The dream has meaning to Rossi and it has meaning to a lot
    of us I’m sure. Maybe 2016 will be the tipping point we’ve been longing for
    where the world will realize Cold Fusion and change beneath our feet.
    Godspeed A. Rossi.

    • LarryJ

      Look around you. The world is changing beneath our feet every day and it barely causes a ripple. Where were drones a short while ago. How come Jimmy Carter is not kicking up daisies. What about the Ebola vaccine. Once something is “real” people just accept it and start using it.The day Rossi puts his products on the market will be just another day. Oh look dear! a new fangled $50 heater. Let’s try it in the TV room. If it doesn’t work we can take it back. Ho Hum. Few people are endowed with a sense of wonder that you and others who follow this website are. I doubt very much that the UN will make a major announcement to the people of planet earth any more than they would for the other miracles that we accept every day without a thought.

      • Larry, flight, relativity, space-travel, computers, internet, television, hubble… I’d put Cold Fusion above most of these as far as a real game-changer. Our economy is based on energy, not to mention how clean an energy CF is.
        Perhaps the world changing is subjective, but I disagree the world at large would be so nonchalant about it.

      • bachcole

        LarryJ, you have been making a lot of sense lately. Did you bang your head or something?

        • LarryJ

          Thanks Bachole. The full catastrophe I’m afraid. I scored a girlfriend.

          • bachcole

            OMG. You realize that you are not really in control, especially if you think that you are.

            Seriously, women are the glue that keeps society together. Good for you. I’d say “congratulations”, but we need to see how you are doing in 30 years. Are you young?

          • LarryJ

            With the age of exponentially rising technology now in full swing, chronological age will soon become a meaningless concept. By around 2040 I will probably be able to trade in my Mark I body for a Mark II and there will be many bridging technologies between now and then to help me make it that far (a la Jimmy Carter). Immortality gives a great new incentive to looking after yourself and a sexually active partner is currently the best known natural hormone therapy and age retardant in the world.

            CF is just the start. You ain’t seen nuthin yet. What do you imagine will happen when self improving AI shows up within the next decade or two. Because AI will be electrical and we are electro chemical a self aware AI modeled on our brains (a proven prototype) will be capable of as many thoughts in 1 minute as you and I have in 1 year. All of our current problems will be quickly resolved and an entirely new set hatched. Scary but inevitable so be nice to your computer.

  • Buck

    For those who want to revel and might sometimes like to read too much into a single data point, like me on this New Years Day.

    Obama is reading a biography by David McCullough of the Wright Brothers while on vacation in Hawaii. As we all remember, the authorities of that time reverentially declared heavier than air flight as being impossible, against the laws of nature, and quite possibly against God’s will as we weren’t born with feathers or wings. A story of denial that has been inextricably woven into the fabric of the LENR/Cold Fusion history. You repeatedly read of it here at E-Cat World.

    And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR, Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy efforts. Just ask Mats Lewan or those who have sent Obama information outlining the importance of LENR.

    LINK>> http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-vacation-reading-list/index.html?eref=rss_politics

    “The President will also tackle a biography of the Wright Brothers in between his normal vacation activities.”

    “Before leaving for Hawaii, Obama continued the tradition of proclaiming December 17 ‘Wright Brothers Day’ to celebrate their 1903 first flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.”

  • Buck

    For those who want to revel and might sometimes like to read too much into a single data point, like me on this New Years Day.

    Obama is reading a biography by David McCullough of the Wright Brothers while on vacation in Hawaii. As we all remember, the authorities of that time reverentially declared heavier than air flight as being impossible, against the laws of nature, and quite possibly against God’s will as we weren’t born with feathers or wings. A story of denial that has been inextricably woven into the fabric of the LENR/Cold Fusion history. You repeatedly read of it here at E-Cat World.

    And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR, Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy efforts. Just ask Mats Lewan or those who have sent Obama information outlining the importance of LENR.

    LINK>> http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-vacation-reading-list/index.html?eref=rss_politics

    “The President will also tackle a biography of the Wright Brothers in between his normal vacation activities.”

    “Before leaving for Hawaii, Obama continued the tradition of proclaiming December 17 ‘Wright Brothers Day’ to celebrate their 1903 first flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.”

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Preparing a speech for the E-Cat announcement?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Preparing a speech for the E-Cat announcement?

      • Buck

        Dreams of empowerment and power includes flying, don’t they?

        I don’t want to tempt fate by pointing out upcoming possibilities.

      • Buck

        Dreams of empowerment and power includes flying, don’t they?

        I don’t want to tempt fate by pointing out upcoming possibilities.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        “From a long view of the history of mankind — seen from, say, ten thousand years from now — there can be little doubt that the most significant event of the 19th century will be judged as Maxwell’s discovery of the laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil War will pale into provincial insignificance in comparison with this important scientific event of the same decade.”
        -Richard Feynman

        And the 21st century?
        Obama wants to be remembered ten thousand years from now.

        • Buck

          Or, as a loving father, he wants to do what he can to protect the future of his daughters and the possibility of their children.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Could be. “Obama Declares war on coal.” http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/25/obama-declares-war-on-coal.html
            He knows far more about Rossi and the E-Cat than we do.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t believe he know more about the E-Cat in January 2008, when he talked of taking coal off the table as an ideological matter:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTIhyMa-Nw

          • Buck

            Brent,

            I think Obama’s message was the opposite of your assertion . . . Obama is NOT ideologically opposed to coal.

            Beginning at about the 2:37 he completes his point that if technology allows the burning of coal in a relatively clean fashion, then the industrialists can build their coal-fired power plants as far as he is concerned. The problem for coal is that this technology does not currently exist.

            He used the same logic in describing his perspective on nuclear energy. We don’t have the technology to efficiently, effectively store the waste in a safe fashion.

            Therefore, with the advent of LENR Cold Fusion, a technology far superior to the burning of any fossil fuel, the economic arguments in support of maintaining a fossil fuels based economy simply vanish.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            So, China builds more coal plant and the US loses its industrial base. CO2 emissions remain the same.

          • Christina

            Yes, I read somewhere that China is going gong-ho into ratcheting up its race to the moon and possibly Mars.

            We sit here and complain about the poor: How will they feel when rockets are launched at our cities to subdue us?

            The Chinese government has no ethics that would prevent that. They want conquest if they can get it; detante if they can’t; peace only if they are militarily inferior.

            Think about it.

            Christina

          • LarryJ

            I think it’s very difficult to wage war against your major trading partners, especially when they owe you vast sums of money. Think about that.

          • Brent Buckner

            I suppose it would depend in part upon whether or not such a trading partner shows ability and inclination to repay those vast sums of money.

          • US_Citizen71

            Let’s put it another way. What happens to your industry when you go to war with the country buying most of the output of your industry’s production?

          • Brent Buckner

            Perhaps you retool it to produce things for domestic production or for export to other countries that will redeem their debts by providing actual goods or services.

          • US_Citizen71

            Sure but in the meantime workers are out of work, the economy takes a downturn, risk of revolution increases and businesses may fail unless propped up. When the country that you are war with also has the ability to all but cut your supply of raw materials and distribution of your products as well you have begun economic suicide. China is dependant on shipping via the sea and the US Navy is still the strongest in the world, attack subs vs freighters is a shooting gallery.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “Sure but in the meantime workers are out of work, the economy takes a
            downturn, risk of revolution increases and businesses may fail unless
            propped up.” Sure, but that may be better than devoting resources to producing goods that will never be paid for. And we do have evidence that China is beginning to adjust to more domestic consumption.

            You wrote: “When the country that you are war with also has the ability to all but cut your supply [and more]”. That strikes me as a much more material point!

          • US_Citizen71

            The thing is China is paid for their goods. The money used might be loans in a manner of speaking but if I give you $5 I borrowed from Sue to pay for your widget, did you not get paid, regardless if I ever pay Sue back? Most of the debt load the US has is owned by the American people, the only truth in the often spouted factoid that ‘china owns most of our debt’ is that it owns most of our foreign debt which is a minority of the total debt owed.

          • Brent Buckner

            I was responding to LarryJ’s comment “especially when they owe you vast sums of money”, not bothering to doublecheck. Thanks!

          • Buck

            Alan,
            Your assertion doesn’t make sense.

            How do you support the notion that the transformation from a fossil fuel based economy to a LENR based economy results in the shutting down of US industry? Excluding the industries where fossil fuels ARE the product, then energy once generated and transmitted is fungible with the only difference being price of each kWh. . . .

            I take Rossi’s characterization of the E-Cat X having an “electricity COP” of about 10 as being very close to the truth, meaning that the cost of LENR electricity simply pushes fossil fuel electricity out of the market over a transition period. Industry invests in the migration from high to low cost.

            Also, how do you exclude China from the same economic pressures of substituting high cost energy with low cost energy? Have you seen photographs of their polluted air.

            I suggest that the Chinese authorities will very quickly gravitate away from pollution as a means to maintain balance. But, LENR has to first become available for this logic to force the decisions. Until then, traditional energy sources hold their relative position.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I was referring to the Obama video from 2008 (before the E-Cat).

          • Buck

            Hhmmm . . . . I was referring to now and the relatively near future where the assumption of industrial LENR plants being commercially available is true. 🙂

          • Brent Buckner

            I did not claim that Obama was ideologically opposed to coal. In 2008 he was pursuing cap-and-trade (so emissions-based, not materials-based), and relatively aggressively, on the basis of his risk assessment; I believe that was before he knew anything about the e-cat.

          • Buck

            Hhmmm . . . .

            “I don’t believe he know more about the E-Cat in January 2008, when he
            talked of taking coal off the table as an IDEOLOGICAL matter:”

            This aside . . . I agree that this was likely before he knew of Rossi and the e-cat.

          • Brent Buckner

            Yes. As I have it, he was set to discuss coal on a cost/benefit basis (versus ideological), and at the time believed that his preferred relatively aggressive cap-and-trade system would significantly diminish coal consumption.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t believe he know more about the E-Cat in January 2008, when he talked of taking coal off the table as an ideological matter:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTIhyMa-Nw

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Or is he doing a Battle of Gaugamela move. By shutting down the coal plants he’s providing his opposition with a target to attack. This opens up a gap in his political enemy’s line. He enters through that gap with the E-Cat.
            http://www.johndclare.net/AncientHistory/images/Gaugamela.gif

          • Buck

            +1 😉

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Ok, I’m drifting off topic but this is the Battle of Gaugamela. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXVfdpS8vnY

          • Buck

            And, the defeat of Gaugamela?

            Also, thank you for the HC doc. I’ll watch your video later this evening.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Vu45l3PMI

          • Buck

            Alan, I enjoyed the history lesson about Alexander the Great . . .

          • bachcole

            So did I.

          • bachcole

            I promise you that he did not discover such knowledge on his own; he is far too busy and far too scientifically unsophisticated. And the idea that one of his aides introduced this knowledge to him defies my imagination. And I challenge you and Buck to prove your assertions. This strikes me as conspiracy theory thinking, that the Great White Father in the East is all-knowing and all-powerful.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Could be. “Obama Declares war on coal.” http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/25/obama-declares-war-on-coal.html
            He knows far more about Rossi and the E-Cat than we do.

        • Buck

          Or, as a loving father, he wants to do what he can to protect the future of his daughters and the possibility of their children.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        “From a long view of the history of mankind — seen from, say, ten thousand years from now — there can be little doubt that the most significant event of the 19th century will be judged as Maxwell’s discovery of the laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil War will pale into provincial insignificance in comparison with this important scientific event of the same decade.”
        -Richard Feynman

        And the 21st century?
        Obama wants to be remembered ten thousand years from now.

    • bachcole

      “And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR,
      Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy
      efforts.” I find it interesting that people forget the time and effort for them to go from hearing about cold fusion to them believing in the reality of the E-Cat. And Obama has lots and lots on his mind, and his hearing about a rumor about an alleged energy source called LENR does not take up a lot of his thinking time.

    • bachcole

      “And, of course we know Obama very likely is perfectly aware of LENR,
      Rossi, Darden, and the E-Cat and has taken it into account in his policy
      efforts.” I find it interesting that people forget the time and effort for them to go from hearing about cold fusion to them believing in the reality of the E-Cat. And Obama has lots and lots on his mind, and his hearing about a rumor about an alleged energy source called LENR does not take up a lot of his thinking time.

      • Buck

        Roger,
        what you say is true unless someone near Obama is convinced LENR is real, functioning at an industrial scale, and imminent.

        With this in mind, an analysis points to the fact that LENR has a profound impact on the economy and industrial policy, national politics, national security, foreign affairs, and the environment to name some points. And this is before one recognizes that this scope of impact is also true for how LENR will impact the Global stage.

        At this point, I believe it becomes a point of negligence to withhold this from Obama.

      • Buck

        Roger,
        what you say is true unless someone near Obama is convinced LENR is real, functioning at an industrial scale, and imminent.

        With this in mind, an analysis points to the fact that LENR has a profound impact on the economy and industrial policy, national politics, national security, foreign affairs, and the environment to name some points. And this is before one recognizes that this scope of impact is also true for how LENR will impact the Global stage.

        At this point, I believe it becomes a point of negligence to withhold this from Obama.

        • bachcole

          Try talking to your local congressional aide about LENR. If you have a view of their face, you can see their eyes roll.

          • theotherone

            Anna Eshoo

            But then, you know, California

        • Again—I person a know well, close to Obama, has my book and know about the story. And if Rossi really sold the first 1MW plant to a military customer, probably American, which I think is true, then US military knows a lot about his technology by now.

          • Buck

            Mats,

            I am not trying to assert more than a sense of possibility and probability . . . definitely not certainty. I’m not trying to put words into your mouth and I regret my phrasing suggested you handed/sold your book to Obama directly.

            I’m one who has sent Obama information and actually received a generally relevant reply appropriate for US Energy Policy. However, the nature of the reply left the question open on Obama’s direct involvement and knowledge of the specifics of the status of LENR R&D. It would be very easy to say that staff simply replied out of presidential politeness to a voter who doesn’t know that Cold Fusion is impossible.

          • bachcole

            Can you give me a percentage of certainty.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I think the total news black-out in the
            mainstream media is our best indicator that the E-Cat is real.

          • LarryJ

            It’s human nature to employ conspiracy theories to explain the inexplicable but I think this recent essay by a professor of philosophy is a far more rational explanation for the news blackout. Cold fusion is a Reputation Trap and abandon all hope ye who enter there. Genius is uncommon but courage is truly rare.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/21/cambridge-university-professor-huw-price-on-the-reputation-trap-of-cold-fusion/

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Conspiring is a normal part of primate
            behavior. Chimpanzees conspire and it seems like the 2% of our genes
            that we don’t share with the chimps are devoted primarily to conspiring.

          • US_Citizen71

            That would explain the popularity of the works of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli wouldn’t it?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Now you have me thinking. Is it disparaging to the chimps to compare them to these guys?

          • US_Citizen71

            LOL : )

          • GreenWin

            Yep. :>)

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I think Hitler was the person who coined the phrase “conspiracy theory” after the 1933 the Reichstag fire.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            John Bockris at Texas A&M found tritium in his DOE funded replication of F&P’s experiment in 1989. So why did the good professor refer to the work of Fleischmann and Pons as “debunked”.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Pardon me.
            …”debunked”?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Why are all the pedigreed institutions that set LENR back a
            quarter of a century putting that “debunked” spin on the story?

          • LarryJ

            This would happen because the good professor knew that his fate would likely be the same as F&P’s. He would have been under a lot of peer pressure to toe the party line. The mainstream physicists of the time would likely have had two driving motives. One would be that they “knew” proton to proton fusion was impossible and any hint that it was possible would have reduced funding for their current hot fusion research. Physicists have mortgages too. It would have been very courageous for the good professor to pursue the issue but as I mentioned above, courage is truly rare. Very few in the physics community would dare challenge an existing paradigm regardless of experimental results because their reputation would be ruined and their experimental results ignored as the result of their obvious incompetence. They know the system better than any, but that doesn’t make it “a total news black-out in the mainstream media” as you originally stated. No journalist is going to challenge an accredited mainstream physicist on issues of physics.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I’m not referring to 1989. He recently referred to F&P as “debunked” in his “Reputation Trap” article.

          • bachcole

            If a person doesn’t practice honesty on a day-to-day basis as an important value, then it won’t be there when the person really needs it to overcome various fears that may threaten one’s integrity.

          • LarryJ

            I couldn’t agree more. I think all the powers that be, both political and industrial know this is coming down the pipe but there is much to risk and nothing to gain by making pronouncements until products are on the market. It is very easy for the powers that be to delay major expenditures without risking their reputations.The climate accord and Obama’s cancellation of the very controversial Keystone pipeline are two recent examples. This technology is likely going to be on the market sometime in 2017 which is an eye blink compared to the lead time for major energy or carbon reduction projects.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        From page 49 of Frank Close’s 1991 book Too Hot to Handle:
        “…a source of much-needed tritium. This sort of application of test-tube fusion
        also impressed Indian Government scientists who decided that western nations
        would soon classify test-tube fusion as a secret…” http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/04/rossi-on-cold-fusion-criticism-victimism-is-syndrome-of-impotence/#comment-1277932385

        • Alan DeAngelis

          If F&P had filed for a patent and didn’t have that March 23, 1989 press conference we never would have heard about cold fusion.

  • jousterusa

    From such dreams great things begin. Happy New Year, Dr. Rossi, and thank you and Happy New Year to you, Frank. Your excitement about the E-Cat and its versions is palpable, and very, very much appreciated. Thank you for all your hard work on this site!

    • bachcole

      New and useful ideas come to me sometimes when I first awaken.

      • I’m always too busy trying to remember how socks work.

        • bachcole

          Funny

        • GreenWin

          Reason I go barefoot.

  • jousterusa

    From such dreams great things begin. Happy New Year, Dr. Rossi, and thank you and Happy New Year to you, Frank. Your excitement about the E-Cat and its versions is palpable, and very, very much appreciated. Thank you for all your hard work on this site!

  • Bob Greenyer

    You are right – I corrected it – problem of trying to write something with 3 children pulling at your legs.

  • Axil Axil

    If the X cat operates like a vacuum tube, it may be possible to control what it does by applying voltage to various control grids. Heat vs, electricity and voltage vs. current could be controlled by a associated control grid. This tells us something about how the LENR reaction works. If a voltage on a control grid pulls out EMF from the core, the electric output goes up and the heat goes down. If a grid restricts the current, then the voltage goes up.

    The charged particle that might be effected that is active in the LENR reaction might be muons. Pulling muons out of the core may slow down the reaction and keeping them inside the core may speed up the reaction.

    If I were Rossi, I would look for muon emissions coming out of his reactor.

  • Axil Axil

    If the X cat operates like a vacuum tube, it may be possible to control what it does by applying voltage to various control grids. Heat vs, electricity and voltage vs. current could be controlled by a associated control grid. This tells us something about how the LENR reaction works. If a voltage on a control grid pulls out EMF from the core, the electric output goes up and the heat goes down. If a grid restricts the current, then the voltage goes up.

    The charged particle that might be effected that is active in the LENR reaction might be muons. Pulling muons out of the core may slow down the reaction and keeping them inside the core may speed up the reaction.

    If I were Rossi, I would look for muon emissions coming out of his reactor.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Frank Acland January 1st, 2016 at 4:09 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    I hope that your vision might be adjustable to meet the needs of rural dwellers. One critically important aspect of the E-Cat, in my opinion, is that it could make possible affordable energy production for people who live in remote areas of the world where an existing energy infrastructure is not already well developed.
    Best wishes,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi January 1st, 2016 at 4:31 PM
    Frank Acland,
    I think that in remote areas there are other technologies more fit.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    and (Karl Henrik Malmqvist / Rossi):

    “For me the off-the-grid aspect of the E-Cat has been the most intriguing part. Energy off-the-grid is much more valuable than extra energy where we already have access to the grid.
    AR:
    There remains to be resolved the problem of safety, that cannot depend from the good standing of the equipment.”

    Are there allready (secret) official requirements for him to say that, so that a migration to the country side away from the city does not take place (because of the new energy feedom)?
    Where does the remote area begin?
    What does a grid suited for the e-cat look like?
    What if in an area from time to time there are smaler outages?
    Will only bigger cities get the new fire?
    Questions over questions…

    • Axil Axil

      Holmlid uses light from a laser to stimulate his version of the LENR reaction, In a LENR battery, heat production is a safety problem. It is a better design to use another type of EMF simulant to produce the LENR reaction. If heat production is removed, a meltdown could not occur. The worse that would happen is a flash of light like a flash bulb. If the reaction stimulant was electrons, all that would happen in a blowup would be an electric arc. There is much room for Rossi competitors to produce a better LENR product then what Rossi has done so far even if that current X Cat product is indeed wonderful right now.

    • Bob Greenyer

      You need to keep people in cities to keep them dependent on the state and to make them taxable.

      Living off-grid should be a right – growing your own food is wonderfully enjoyable and if you have the land and you can farm it sustainably/bio and avoid seeds with terminator genes in, inflation is meaningless – it takes largely the same effort to grow a crop in 2016 as it would in 1976. Moving forward – LENR powered hot houses and irrigation from desalination, rental of LENR tractors and autonomous drones for seed planting, fertilisation and non-herbicide/pesticide weed and insect management (extraction/termination) will liberate farming and it’s traditional challenges.

      As I said in an earlier post – only 2% of Indians pay income tax – this is largely because 850million of them basically look after themselves and what money they do earn is below the tax threshold. I lived there from 2008 – 2012 right though the worst part of the recession – in the IT hubs it was carnage – but out in the rural areas it was like “recession, what recession??”

      In the state I was in, Kerala, it was illegal to own more than 10 Hectares of land unless you could prove you ran an effective plantation. If you were found to own more, the land was confiscated and parcelled out to farmers that would manage it effectively. This stopped land speculation which is so common in other countries where wealthy individuals lock up large parcels of land and do nothing but sit and lobby for it to become ‘developed’ at the right time in the bank driven ‘economic’ cycle.

      For the record, my father and grandfather were farmers – I grew up on one.

      • GreenWin

        Bob, regardless of the good doc’s vision, if the E-CatX can be modularized at 500-1kW wafer-based units – building a 5-10kW CHP is simple engineering. As you well know, the independent farm was a self sustaining homestead. With implementations of LENR, it can be again

        • bachcole

          I agree. As much as I respect Dr. Rossi, it doesn’t really matter what he says about this.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Yay to that!

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I think Rossi is just speaking softly so the utility industry will not mount a counter-offensive. Trying not to alarm the establishment.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, JP Morgan to Tesla: “Where do you put the meter?”

          • bachcole

            But Tesla was wrong. (Not to imply that Rossi is wrong.) The wireless broadcasting of power is already happening. We call these towers television and radio stations. I can see a bunch of them from where I live, and the power that gets to me is greatly diluted to the point of being useful for anything other than snagging the signal, not the power.

            It is very common that highly creative people go off the rails. Tesla went off the rails. Get used to it. He was also a stranger in a strange land and without the stabilizing influence of a woman. All perfect combinations to make a guy gradually lose touch with reality. I hope that this is not happening to Rossi. I am happy that Rossi is surrounded by the good heartedness of people like Darden and Vaughn and others.

          • bachcole

            I agree 100% and thought so also. Frankly, I didn’t want to say too much so as to not alert them also. Perhaps we should keep quiet about this decentralization bit.

      • Omega Z

        India has a High Corporate tax. Anyone who buys anything pays taxes. A Corporate tax is a means to tax the masses when the proper structure is not in place for a general income tax. Corporations do not pay tax. They are used as a Government tax collection agency.

        “seeds with terminator genes” This is just part of nature. A percentage of seeds will be sterile even among heirloom seeds. It’s a bigger problem when you mix breeds to produce hybrid seed. Conspiracist would have you believe the seed companies have created this to keep you from processing your own seed. They have in fact worked to reduce this issue. Farmers don’t want seed with a 50% germination rate.

        A portion of the seed produced by hybrid plant will in fact grow. If one wanted to spend a couple decades developing it, This sterility applies to animals as well. To get a mule, you breed a donkey to a horse. 2 of the same family, different breeds. Mules with extremely few exceptions are sterile.

        As to “in the rural areas it was like -recession, what recession?”. When you’re at the bottom of the economic ladder, there is no down of which to go. You have nothing so you lose nothing.

        And if you want to go off grid, join the Amish, but note, you will still pay taxes. Taxes pay for roads, bridges, schools, clean water, hospitals etc… Unless you wish to forfeit these amenities.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You made my point for me… In India, so many are self sufficient or largely look after themselves that they hardly buy a thing – how do you tax that – you don’t. They do trade but not funny money for real things – they trade real things for real things, like coconuts for rice.

          Get someone in a city and they are forced into dependence and BECAUSE they then HAVE to buy stuff to exist the then pay purchase taxes.

          The terminator gene comment was a minor part of a much more significant comment on self sufficiency and the effort it takes to grow a crop now and in the past. A deliberate attempt to damage self sufficiency in a community might take 1 bad crop. My father and grandfather were hybridisation specialists – particularly in Chrysanthemum flowers, I live in Brno, where Gregor Mendel discovered Hybridisation / hereditary principals.

          I can assure you that many of the Indians you characterise as being at the bottom of the economic ladder have happy and fulfilling lives – It is a matter of expectation and perception – being able to pay taxes, drive long distances to buy food that you have no connection to and rack up a lot of debt does not necessarily lead to well-being.

          Many of the people that live like I have seen have no need for motorways and bridges, they live within a close nit environment/community often with tracks – they pay for their own medical care (using family/community gold as insurance) and are responsible for sourcing their own water – in Kerala – 70% of water comes from a well. They give to the rest of the world by not over-consuming every day. It is a different mindset for sure and I am not suggesting people that have lived differently should or could go there – I am just reporting on the way it is.

          Having LENR in these communities would help them sterilise water and cook food without burning cow dung or denuding forest and would help them in many other ways such as lighting.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi could be boxing himself into the grid. Rossi might be doing what Edison did with DC current. Edison loved that direct current but AC was better and this competitors drove Edison out of his company: Edison general Electric by using AC current. Edison’s company turns their backs to his technology and adopted a better technology. This might happen to Rossi if he is not flexible in his dreaming.

      • Omega Z

        If you want cheap energy, it will require a grid. The grid will be decentralized & smaller, but it will be a grid. When this technology is available, should you want a stand alone system, you can build 1, but it will no longer be cheap energy.

        I think when the dust settles, For those who want a stand alone home system, a lot of people are going to suffer sticker shock. You may get your energy for 3 or 4 cents a kilowatt hour for the next 20 years, but your going to have to pay for it all at the time of installation. The alternative would be a bank loan that you pay by the month.

        • Yes, national grids will persist, as you say in decentralised form. Most of the heavy duty stuff for distribution from power stations will be removed, but the balancing functions of grids will still be useful, and possibly more efficient than individual installations requiring private maintenance.

          More to the point though is the fact that only grid supplies will allow electricity to continue to be metered and charged by the unit so that energy ‘utilities’ can continue to make profits, and governments can still skim revenues from the system. I believe that it is inevitable that ‘safety concerns’ will used by governments to prevent sales of domestic power generators and heaters for the foreseeable future.

          Better half a loaf than none I guess.

    • artefact

      Thanks Andreas Moraitis for asking Rossi:
      “Since you mentioned safety: I wonder what would happen with an E-Cat that is driven by the grid in case of a power outage?”
      Rossi answere seems to be (the other way around) the what would be if the grid has an outage and the x-cat can not dump its electricity into it 🙂
      “I have a good experience in this field, because I made many plants that produced electric energy from organic materials driven by the grid. There are specific control systems for the purpose; they can also disconnect the generator from the grid if necessary for the time necessary to the reparations.”

    • US_Citizen71

      Maybe he is speaking strictly as an engineer. Many have posted in the past about implementation of E-Cats being best suited for installation in small grids due to ‘what do you do with the excess power of a continuous running E-Cat?’. A stand alone installation likely won’t have enough demand 24/7/365 to use all of the power generated, so you would either need to use a small one and store energy for high demand periods or just let it go to waste. So strictly in regards to the KISS principle and total efficiency I would agree with him that rural installs might not be the best place for an E-Cat.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Attached for example is a graph that shows that a family buying a home pre-1985 would only require 1 adult to work meaning the other could cover house improvements, home economics, family planning (not just number of children, but activity planning for well-being), child care, key worker emotional support etc. Now these pre 85 families will have paid off their mortgage.

    Up until a few years ago in the UK – two full time salaries would still leave the family worse off financially without all the benefits of only one parent working. This is reflected in the collapse in ability of the younger generations to buy a home, because they cannot raise a mortgage – and home renting is mostly even more expensive and insecure (a landlord can kick you out at a months notice) and demeaning (you are restricted in what you can do to a property).

    Moving forward – the average UK university leaver of the future will have in excess of £50,000 of debt, no better job prospects and all of the downward economic opportunities that the 1985+ generations have experienced. Making it more difficult to start a family will mean older parents.

  • GreenWin

    As Buck notes below, President Obama is reading a biography of the Wright Brothers while on vacation. It is an excellent analogy to the development of LENR and the E-Cat.

    “David McCullough, two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize, tells the surprising, profoundly American story of Wilbur and Orville Wright.

    Far more than a couple of unschooled Dayton bicycle mechanics who happened to hit on success, they were men of exceptional courage and determination, and of far-ranging intellectual interests and ceaseless curiosity, much of which they attributed to their upbringing. The house they lived in had no electricity or indoor plumbing, but there were books aplenty, supplied mainly by their preacher father, and they never stopped reading.”

    If Warren G. Harding had known the revolution the Wrights would create with their historic flight in 1903 – he might have been more than a one-term President. Considering the acknowledged work on LENR at Navy and DoD facilities, and the recent paper by Pam Boss (SPAWAR) and Larry Foresley (JWK, University Texas, Global Energy) — it is improbable Obama is not read into Greg Goble’s “U.S. LENR Manhattan Project.” http://bit.ly/1O03JE9

    It would certainly be a bright feather to become the President who quietly supported the New Fire revolution. It took nearly a decade for consensus science to acknowledge the Wright Brothers revolution. More time than Dottore Rossi has been building E-Cat reactors.

    • fact police

      It would certainly be a bright feather to become the President who quietly supported the New Fire revolution. It took nearly a decade for consensus science to acknowledge the Wright Brothers revolution.

      Consensus science always treated aviation as legitimate science, as is clear from publications in Science, Nature, and many other major journals even before 1903. And while there were notable exceptions (like Kelvin), most scientists regarded aviation as inevitable.

      The Wrights’ first flight was in 1903, and they flew extensively in 1904 and 1905 (but not at all in 1906 and 1907, while they tried to peddle their invention), but were relatively secretive about it, and so many were skeptical of their achievements, but not of flight itself. Indeed, some of the Wrights’ most vicious skeptics were supporters (believers) of other aviation pioneers.

      When the Wrights flew in public in 1908, skepticism vanished in 110 seconds. That was 5 years after their first flight, but notably on the day of their first openly public demonstration.

      The Wrights’ 1900 – 1905 efforts can be compared to Rossi’s efforts prior to 2011 (from 2007 or earlier). The January 2011 public demo would be like the Wrights’ 1908 demo, but the results were very different.

      McCullough’s book is a great read. The audio version is even better, read by the author. But it doesn’t compare to the Rossi story.

      • GreenWin

        On January 13, 1905 that paragon of consensus wisdom, Scientific American forever embarrassed itself with its fussy Yugoism titled: “The Wright Aeroplane and its Fabled Performance.” http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors/i/Wrights/library/WrightSiAm1.html

        A year later the magazine was forced to print an about-face.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        “Indeed, some of the Wrights’ most vicious skeptics were supporters (believers) of other aviation pioneers.” This has a strong parallel with Rossi’s case.

  • theotherone

    Anna Eshoo

    But then, you know, California

  • Allan Shura

    Rossi’s dream appears to be on a type of utility grid. $50 per kw is a dream. I wonder where
    the home e-cat and wafers off grid fit in to this.

    “which about half were turned into heat distributed to the houses through a network of well insulated pipes, running inderground, like optic fibers, the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households.”

  • Jonnyb

    Hopefully the drive for all these units will be from an E-Cat or did I miss that bit?

  • Jonnyb

    Hopefully the drive for all these units will be from an E-Cat or did I miss that bit?

  • LilyLover

    The street lamps have always been historically important, be it for the light, or for reclining upon and now the evolution of purpose of the street lamp seems befitting the spiritual maturation. The lamp has had dispelled the physical darkness, now it shall dispel the intellectual darkness. Every street could have beautiful colourful lighting and every mood and creativity can be pleasantly illuminated. Every home and every parking spot will have the electricity available from this very lamp-post. I guess, farming in the snowy-country greenhouse or warmth radiating walkways could lead to redefined sense of fashion in Alaska and Serbia.
    Good times ahead.
    Dear all, Happy New Year!!!

  • LilyLover

    The street lamps have always been historically important, be it for the light, or for reclining upon and now the evolution of purpose of the street lamp seems befitting the spiritual maturation. The lamp has had dispelled the physical darkness, now it shall dispel the intellectual darkness. Every street could have beautiful colourful lighting and every mood and creativity can be pleasantly illuminated. Every home and every parking spot will have the electricity available from this very lamp-post. I guess, farming in the snowy-country greenhouse or warmth radiating walkways could lead to redefined sense of fashion in Alaska and Serbia.
    Good times ahead.
    Dear all, Happy New Year!!!

  • georgehants

    Wonderful to see all those on page aware that a new economic system is needed and the great benefits it could bring to the World combined with the hopefully promise of Cold Fusion.
    The next few years will be very interesting, to see how and if this progress will proceed or will everything just stay the same, a small group of rich and powerful people dictating our lives purely for their own benefit?
    Cold Fusion has shown that the media are completely under their control, will the Internet be next?
    Also much talk on page of how science education has for many years produced a mass of scientists, completely unable to accept anything new and against the prevailing Dogma.
    Maybe Cold Fusion will help to change that education system but I doubt it.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Remember George. The internet won’t be censored. It will be “managed”. After all, we wouldn’t want people to be misled by conspiracy theorists like that Isaac Newton guy. Would we?

      • Agaricus

        It already is. The number of disinformation sites has multiplied massively in recent times, as has the speed with which disinfo trolls hit comment sections where anything controversial is being discussed.

      • georgehants

        Alan, Peter, GreenWin the Facts are undeniable, now how can this deterioration of democracy be halted and reversed.
        Can it be halted or reversed, or is this Oligarchy that has over many years infiltrated and taken over all areas of life, become so powerful that it is permanently entrenched?

        • Agaricus

          For what it’s worth George, I think that the point of no return was reached decades ago, since when consolidation and extraction of wealth from the masses have been the main activities of the ‘elite’ kleptocracy (geopolitics, control of the media, geoengineering, population reduction etc. are just tools for them).

          I can only see two paths to some degree of liberation, either internecine war between internal factions of the power structure that destroys both (fought by proxy of course), or total worldwide economic meltdown resulting from the wiping of all computer data by a massive EMP event (the elites would have no record of their trillions, and so no more power than you or I).

          I’m not sure either would be much better than the current status quo, although this seems set to get a lot worse if the NWO people have their way.

          • georgehants

            All True Peter, sad that us old buggers have to go out knowing what our generation is leaving behind.
            The young seem, as with the cover-up of Cold Fusion etc. to have no motivation or awareness of the situation and just blindly take their place in the crowd applauding the masters.
            I have placed a link above on the sad news of the demise of one of the few caring Rebels.
            It is sensible to think of the possibility of a conspiracy regarding his death.

          • US_Citizen71

            Due to my work I have contact with members of Generation Y quite a bit, in my observation of them I think they are quite capable of thinking for themselves, probably as good as if not better than the radicals of the 1960’s. Our biggest failings of them is teaching them to read and write in a manner coherent with others outside their age group as well as how to do math without a calculator. Reading and writing cursive is beyond most of them which may limit their access and knowledge of historical documents.

          • georgehants

            Good so they are concerned with the censorship and threats to scientists, the media etc, on many subjects where they are forced to keep quite by threats to their jobs and by extension their children and family’s.
            It will be good to see them stand-up and start to change things.
            When do you think this will begin?

          • US_Citizen71

            They already do! They tend to use tools of communication that we don’t use often, Twitter is waning with them and they view FaceBook as way keeping up with Mom and Grandma. Their are literally hundreds of social media sites and tools we just don’t use them like they do.

          • georgehants

            Many thanks that certainly gives heart that all may not be lost, unless Facebook etc. becomes censored of course.

          • GreenWin

            I have the good fortune to volunteer with Y gens. They tune me in to communication apps like SnapChat… I have a lotta faith in these kids.

        • Axil Axil

          The X Cat is not yet independent of the grid so it cannot be used as an instriment of social change. Poor people will be under the control of the people who control the grid. When the X Cat can run in standalone mode, then the poor will be independent of the Oligarchy.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            There are many other things besides the grid that make people dependent on each other and the government. Water, sewage, internet line, land where you live, roads, school, healthcare, ..

            On the other hand, I can’t imagine any technical reason why the E-cat X, accompanied by battery and inverter, couldn’t be run in standalone mode. This I say with the full confidence of a person who doesn’t understand how the machine works.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi seems to think that a self powered X Cat is dangerous. He may have a point. Richard Feynman kill a person when the engine flue apart after he disabled the controls of the Papp engine which then exploded during a demo Feynman attended given by Jo Papp.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Then a grid-powered reactor should be dangerous as well, due to the possibility of power outages. But Rossi just said it is not….(?)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Maybe cutting E-cat’s electric power would be dangerous, perhaps or perhaps not, but I don’t see why a battery would be less reliable than the grid. I would in fact guess the opposite. Airplanes and launch vehicles rely on batteries, for example.

          • GreenWin

            This raises question of how stable is an E-CatX in countries where grid power fluctuates significantly? Emergent nations suffer regular blackouts and poor peaking and frequency control of AC power. Battery DC and inversion correct that issue.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            To be frank, I consider it likely that the device is not dangerous even if power is cut and that Rossi’s reluctance for off-grid is entirely business-political, like he admitted earlier (in I think Italian language interview in Zurich or Pordenone, I don’t recall which) for his phrase “all energy sources must be integrated”.

          • US_Citizen71

            For off grid uses I think Dan C. on JONP probably has stated it best so far:

            Dan C.

            January 2nd, 2016 at 7:28 AM

            Dear Andrea,

            1. Many want an off the grid system.
            2. They want it to meet all their energy needs “conveniently”.
            3. And they want it to be very economical. Cheap???

            Want #1 can be Achieved.
            A standalone system for minimum safety would require 3 X-cat units, each with it’s own electronics, each linked to supply power to each other. A battery capacity to start just 1 X-cat is all that would be need as the 1 X-cat could provide the power to start the other 2 X-cat units. You have a mini micro-grid.

            Want #3 is already in question because of the 3x factor in hardware cost.

            Want #2 can be Achieved.
            Each of the 3 X-cat’s being 10KWh each provides power even at peak periods.
            Convenience however, has a cost. 90% of the time you do not need peak energy production. If the real value of the energy you are producing is 2 cents a kilowatt hour, and your discarding 90% of that, the kilowatt hours you’re making use of is costing you 20 cents each as you must include the cost of the energy you discard.

            This situation could be alleviated by separating convenience from #2, but I don’t think most people would like waiting 10 or 20 minutes for the system to ramp up every time they want to turn on an appliance. And battery energy storage cost would result in a net zero savings. You’ve merely shifted the cost. Also, powering down 1 or 2 of the X-cats likely voids the minimum safety factor.

            Want #3 can not be achieved in conjunction with Wants #1 and #2 at an individual residential scale. I’m sure someone will point out an exception, but in general it can’t be accomplished.

            So, you can achieve #1 & #2 uneconomically, or you can achieve #2 and #3 if #3 includes connection to a localized micro-grid. Localized being a neighborhood or city micro-grid.

            Happy New Year,
            Dan C.

          • TomR

            I agree with you, Pekka.

          • Agaricus

            If the loop back goes through a battery or other electrical discontinuity, surely that would be exactly the same as using external grid power.

        • Axil Axil

          I believe that LENR enables the control of the strong force. With that power, you can live anywhere you want behind an impenetrable shield. You can live inside the earth, or inside Jupiter’s core, or in a bubble inside the Sun or for the more adventurous, surf the shockwave of a supernova. LENR will provide the ultimate defensive weapon and a independent lifestyle. Such a shield will be developed before the end of this century.

          • georgehants

            Axil, Wonderful but I think most people would be happy living in an open, honest, fair democratic society, where all have equal access to the necessities and available luxuries etc.
            Your controlling force would be great for that 1 in a million asteroid strike that is NASA’s latest begging bowl for their entertainments fund, when they could not divert a body with a mass greater then about half an ounce.

          • Agaricus

            Like James Blish’s ‘spindizzy’ field in the flying cities sagas.

        • GreenWin

          Condolences to Ian’s family. George, as we have both studied spiritual masters you will understand some of my approach to the problem. That is, knowing what we don’t want – to focus on what we DO want.

          This is precisely what the Wright brothers did following their first flight. They were indefatigable in their pursuit of a better airframe, control surfaces, lighter, more efficient engines, and take-off assist mechanisms.

          This is essentially what Doc Rossi is doing. Staying focused on evolving the E-Cat. If we look at the quiet but significant activity in LENR since the 2011 E-Cat demos – we have reason for optimism. There is regular, growing development of Cold Fusion in major countries like India, China, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Japan. We have CF patents issued by the stodgy old Oligarchs at the USPTO – one even to the renegade leader of our most heinous ‘pseudoscience…’ Dottore Andrea Rossi.

          Faith and focus on the world you want my friend. You’re not done yet!

          • georgehants

            GreenWin always come in at the right time with the right words.
            Many thanks.

        • Agaricus

          Ian Murdock is a great loss. Linux operating systems had (have?) the potential to displace the spyware-filled Windows OS. I have some difficulties with the official version of the circumstances of his death. Perhaps these will become clearer with time.

          • Warthog

            Communism is just another flavor of socialism. Communism was an attempt to implement socialism on an international scale, while socialism organizes at the nation-state level. The confusion is on your part…..I would hardly call North Korea “state capitalism”. China is a communist state becoming capitalist (which is now at the stage of state capitalism). And I use words as they are defined….not the redefinitions of murderous nutcases like Marx and Lenin. Imperialism is “empire”, which implies rule of other states by powerful nations, and which included the Soviet Union (which was both communist and imperialist).

            The “bourgeoisie win over feudalism” was an evolutionary process, not a “revolution”, and that is precisely how the next stage beyond capitalism will evolve (unless derailed by a top-down solution imposed by well-meaning promoters of socialism).

            “In capitalism a tiny fraction of the people owns everything….”. Really?? I know lots of businesses not so owned. OTOH, in the Soviet Union, a “tiny fraction of the people” really DID own everything (see “nomenklatura”).

            “The last part on the internet businesses has not value, because the
            servers are owned by bourgeoisie, which will close them when they will
            perceive a peril of revolution, like already did recently in Libia, etc.”

            LOL…..you compare a backward, basically dictatorial regime like Libya, in which the servers were probably owned by the state in the first place to the complexity of a small-c “capitalist” economy? Ludicrous.

            In the evolutionary process that is happening in advanced economies, there will never “be” an overt revolution to sound an alarm that would result in a “shutdown”. There are thousands upon thousands of server farms, owned by entities both large and small. Just as there are thousands and thousands of businesses, both large and small.

            And I did NOT say that “the internet economy realizes democracy”, and certainly not of the political sort. That it offers the possibility of a mechanism that “might” result on a direct overall sort of democratic political process is a (dangerous) fact (due to hacking and fraud possibilities).

            And in fact, I never said anything about economic “democratization”. I simply pointed out that the internet is allowing new forms of organization of both business AND capital, which are “organizing themselves” in many different ways. What is happening right now is the formation of an economic ecology, which will include both large entities and small entities.

            You and George suffer from the idea that a simplistic top down solution (socialism) is possible in an ecological economy. It is not. There is simply too much complexity for such an approach to succeed.

            “…in capitalistic conditions, globalization, automation and robotization
            of production processes lead necessarily to proletarization, monopolism
            and overproduction.”

            Communist/socialist bafflegab continues. “Necessarily” is a fantasy of socialist economic theory.

            What is currently happening is “economic evolution” into more and more diverse forms and mechanisms. Previously, only the organization of businesses into huge entities allowed “globalization”, as those were the only things that could organize and communicate successfully on a global scale. This has, “necessarily” concentrated ownership in a relatively small group. With the advent of the internet, ANY size company can “globalize”, and large numbers are doing so, successfully.

            But this is not the place to have this conversation. If you can suggest a different spot to discuss it, reply with a URL.

          • orsobubu

            Warthog, I have to decline your interesting invitation for lack of time; we could confront ourselves on the subject in this forum occasionally, if Frank does permit, since this is the only place where I post today, together with JONP, I’m sorry because you made a long answer for me. Since I’m communist, I have to make my political action with real people, not on the forums. I’m also sorry because I would have so much things to reply. My only contribution here is to specify that our positions differs on a very important starting point: you refer to communism using the bourgeoisie, ideological interpretation: communism is the production system used in ex-soviet block states. I use the scientific interpretation by Marx and Engels: communism is the doctrine about the conditions for proletariat freedom; a state with money, banks, market and wage work, like the countries you refer to, cannot be communist by scientific definition, they are flatly capitalist. You are confusing communism with fascism and yes, those states were flatly fascist; Stalin killed all the bolshevicks, one by one by design. Your definition of communist regimes is just ideological like it would be to say that in USA today there is a free market. Instead, in USA there is a liberal economic cycle inside a state capitalism in a frame of social-imperialist conditions.

          • Warthog

            Neither Marx nor Engels were even remotely “scientific”. Nor was their “economics”. Pure fantasy. And communism (including your entire post above) is totally ideological, containing more misconceptions than I have ever seen in a single post before.

            My position is based on the facts on the ground, not ideological fantasy.

  • georgehants

    Wonderful to see all those on page aware that a new economic system is needed and the great benefits it could bring to the World combined with the hopefully promise of Cold Fusion.
    The next few years will be very interesting, to see how and if this progress will proceed or will everything just stay the same, a small group of rich and powerful people dictating our lives purely for their own benefit?
    Cold Fusion has shown that the media are completely under their control, will the Internet be next?
    Also much talk on page of how science education has for many years produced a mass of scientists, completely unable to accept anything new and against the prevailing Dogma.
    Maybe Cold Fusion will help to change that education system but I doubt it.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Remember George. The internet won’t be censored. It will be “managed”. After all, we wouldn’t want people to be misled by conspiracy theorists like that Isaac Newton guy. Would we?

      • It already is. The number of disinformation sites has multiplied massively in recent times (along with their artificial precedence in Google search results), as has the speed with which disinfo trolls hit comment sections where anything controversial is being discussed.

        http://isoulscience.com/2015/09/everything-is-a-lie-the-25-rules-of-disinformation/

        From pollution to politics, the era of deception and duplicity has reached new heights and hijacked almost every form of media in the world. In the last frontiers for truth such as the internet, disinformation operations are in full swing to discredit and destroy any semblance of authentic and factual information available to the public. How many more lies will people around the world accept as truth?

        Also see:,
        http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/new-launch-for-disinformation-directory-website-and-fb-page/
        http://fakeologist.com/911-psyop-bullet-points/psyop-terms/disinfo-agents/
        http://www.look-up.org.uk/disinformation/

        • Alan DeAngelis

          I even saw Hitler’s burning down of the Reichstag in 1933 being referred to as a “conspiracy theory”. Referring to any conspiracy as a conspiracy sets a bad precedent. The language must now be warped to the point
          were it can no longer be used.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            …where it can…

        • GreenWin

          And let’s not forget the growing ranks of paid shills and trolls:
          “I have never seen a troll lay down his or her arms and say, “You know what, you’re right. I was so wrong.”

          http://99u.com/articles/25151/dont-feed-the-haters-the-confessions-of-a-former-troll
          http://www.straight.com/news/482846/government-trolls-use-psychology-based-influence-techniques-social-media

        • bachcole

          I am very curious about the personal lives, attitudes, and characters of skeptopath.

          My nephew was so negative about alternative healing that he used it as part of his rationalization for dismissing me as a relative because of if. Yet I sat and watched while he was pleasantly surprised when a chiropractor demonstrated to him the reality and value of muscle testing. I was not even a believer in muscle testing at the time (not all muscle testers rise above the placebo effect), so we were both very happily surprised and convinced. And my nephew also had significant pain relieved during the session. And yet later it became part of his rational for rejecting me as a relative (aside from the $2000 that he still owes me).

          So, here is my point. He is both a skeptopath and a lying POS. He was thrown out of two maritime academies for lying. I wonder if there is a relationship between being a skeptopath and being dishonorably dishonest.

        • TomR

          The Cold Fusion, LENR and Andrea Rossi group on facebook is not filled with trolls yet.

      • georgehants

        Alan, Peter, GreenWin the Facts are undeniable, now how can this deterioration of democracy be halted and reversed.
        Can it be halted or reversed, or is this Oligarchy that has over many years infiltrated and taken over all areas of life, become so powerful that it is permanently entrenched?
        ——–
        Debian Founder And Open Source Visionary Ian Murdock Dies At 42
        http://www.techtimes.com/articles/120620/20160102/debian-founder-and-open-source-visionary-ian-murdock-dies-at-42.htm

        • For what it’s worth George, I think that the point of no return was reached decades ago, since when consolidation and extraction of wealth from the masses have been the main activities of the ‘elite’ kleptocracy (geopolitical interference, control of national politics and the media, geoengineering, population reduction etc. are just tools for them).

          I can only see two paths to some degree of liberation, either internecine war between internal factions of the power structure that destroys both (fought by proxy of course), or total worldwide economic meltdown resulting from the wiping of all computer data by a massive EMP event (the elites would have no record of their trillions, and so little more power than you or I).

          I’m not sure either would be much better than the current status quo, although this seems set to get a lot worse if the NWO people have their way.

          • georgehants

            All True Peter, sad that us old buggers have to go out knowing what our generation is leaving behind.
            The young seem, as with the cover-up of Cold Fusion etc. to have no motivation or awareness of the situation and just blindly take their place in the crowd applauding the masters.
            I have placed a link above on the sad news of the demise of one of the few caring Rebels.
            It is reasonable to think of the possibility of a conspiracy regarding his death.

          • US_Citizen71

            Due to my work I have contact with members of Generation Y quite a bit, in my observation of them I think they are quite capable of thinking for themselves, probably as good as if not better than the radicals of the 1960’s. Our biggest failings of them is teaching them to read and write in a manner coherent with others outside their age group as well as how to do math without a calculator. Reading and writing cursive is beyond most of them which may limit their access and knowledge of historical documents.

          • georgehants

            Good so they are concerned with the censorship and threats to scientists, the media etc, on many subjects where they are forced to keep quite by threats to their jobs and by extension their children and family’s.
            It will be good to see them stand-up and start to change things.
            When do you think this will begin?

          • US_Citizen71

            They already do! They tend to use tools of communication that we don’t use often, Twitter is waning with them and they view FaceBook as way of keeping up with Mom and Grandma. There are literally hundreds of social media sites and tools we just don’t use them like they do.

          • georgehants

            Many thanks that certainly gives heart that all may not be lost, unless Facebook etc. becomes censored of course.

          • GreenWin

            I have the good fortune to volunteer with Y gens. They tune me in to communication apps like SnapChat… I have a lotta faith in these kids.

        • Axil Axil

          The X Cat is not yet independent of the grid so it cannot be used as an instrument of social change. Poor people will be under the control of the people who control the grid. When the X Cat can run in standalone mode, then the poor will be independent of the Oligarchy.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            There are many other things besides the grid that make people dependent on each other and the government. Water, sewage, internet line, land where you live, roads, school, healthcare, ..

            On the other hand, I can’t imagine any technical reason why the E-cat X, accompanied by battery and inverter, couldn’t be run in standalone mode. This I say with the full confidence of a person who doesn’t understand how the machine works.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi seems to think that a self powered X Cat is dangerous. He may have a point. Richard Feynman killed a person when the engine that Feynman was observing flew apart after Feynman disabled the controls of the Papp engine. The engine over revved, then exploded during a demo Feynman attended given by Jo Papp.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Then a grid-powered reactor should be dangerous as well, due to the possibility of power outages. But Rossi just said it is not….(?)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Maybe cutting E-cat’s electric power would be dangerous, perhaps or perhaps not, but I don’t see why a battery would be less reliable than the grid. I would in fact guess the opposite. Airplanes and launch vehicles rely on batteries, for example.

          • GreenWin

            This raises question of how stable is an E-CatX in countries where grid power fluctuates significantly? Emergent nations suffer regular blackouts and poor peaking and frequency control of AC power. Battery DC and inversion correct that issue.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            To be frank, I consider it likely that the device is not dangerous even if power is cut and that Rossi’s reluctance for off-grid is entirely business-political, like he admitted earlier (in I think Italian language interview in Zurich or Pordenone, I don’t recall which) for his phrase “all energy sources must be integrated”.

          • US_Citizen71

            For off grid uses I think Dan C. on JONP probably has stated it best so far:

            Dan C.

            January 2nd, 2016 at 7:28 AM

            Dear Andrea,

            1. Many want an off the grid system.
            2. They want it to meet all their energy needs “conveniently”.
            3. And they want it to be very economical. Cheap???

            Want #1 can be Achieved.
            A standalone system for minimum safety would require 3 X-cat units, each with it’s own electronics, each linked to supply power to each other. A battery capacity to start just 1 X-cat is all that would be need as the 1 X-cat could provide the power to start the other 2 X-cat units. You have a mini micro-grid.

            Want #3 is already in question because of the 3x factor in hardware cost.

            Want #2 can be Achieved.
            Each of the 3 X-cat’s being 10KWh each provides power even at peak periods.
            Convenience however, has a cost. 90% of the time you do not need peak energy production. If the real value of the energy you are producing is 2 cents a kilowatt hour, and your discarding 90% of that, the kilowatt hours you’re making use of is costing you 20 cents each as you must include the cost of the energy you discard.

            This situation could be alleviated by separating convenience from #2, but I don’t think most people would like waiting 10 or 20 minutes for the system to ramp up every time they want to turn on an appliance. And battery energy storage cost would result in a net zero savings. You’ve merely shifted the cost. Also, powering down 1 or 2 of the X-cats likely voids the minimum safety factor.

            Want #3 can not be achieved in conjunction with Wants #1 and #2 at an individual residential scale. I’m sure someone will point out an exception, but in general it can’t be accomplished.

            So, you can achieve #1 & #2 uneconomically, or you can achieve #2 and #3 if #3 includes connection to a localized micro-grid. Localized being a neighborhood or city micro-grid.

            Happy New Year,
            Dan C.

          • TomR

            I agree with you, Pekka.

          • If the loop back goes through a battery or other electrical discontinuity, surely that would be exactly the same as using external grid power.

        • Axil Axil

          I believe that LENR enables the control of the strong force. With that power, you can live anywhere you want behind an impenetrable shield. You can live inside the earth, or inside Jupiter’s core, or in a bubble inside the Sun or for the more adventurous, surf the shockwave of a supernova. LENR will provide the ultimate defensive weapon and an independent lifestyle. Such a shield will be developed before the end of this century.

          • georgehants

            Axil, Wonderful but I think most people would be happy living in an open, honest, fair democratic society, where all have equal access to the necessities and available luxuries etc.
            Your controlling force would be great for that 1 in a million asteroid strike that is NASA’s latest begging bowl for their entertainments fund, when they could not divert a body with a mass greater then about half an ounce.

          • Like James Blish’s ‘spindizzy’ field in the flying cities sagas.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindizzy

        • GreenWin

          Condolences to Ian’s family. George, as we have both studied spiritual masters you will understand some of my approach to the problem. That is, knowing what we don’t want – to focus on what we DO want.

          This is precisely what the Wright brothers did following their first flight. They were indefatigable in their pursuit of a better airframe, control surfaces, lighter, more efficient engines, and take-off assist mechanisms.

          This is essentially what Doc Rossi is doing. Staying focused on evolving the E-Cat. If we look at the quiet but significant activity in LENR since the 2011 E-Cat demos – we have reason for optimism. There is regular, growing development of Cold Fusion in major countries like India, China, Russia, Sweden, Italy, Japan. We have CF patents issued by the stodgy old Oligarchs at the USPTO – one even to the renegade leader of our most heinous ‘pseudoscience…’ Dottore Andrea Rossi.

          Faith and focus on the world you want my friend. You’re not done yet!

          • georgehants

            GreenWin always come in at the right time with the right words.
            Many thanks.

        • Ian Murdock is a great loss. Linux/Debian operating systems had (have?) the potential to displace the spyware-filled Windows OS. I have some difficulties with the official version of the circumstances of his death. Perhaps these will become clearer with time.

  • Agaricus

    Further down the thread, US_Citizen71 asks, “why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor…”

    There is a possible configuration that might answer this. This is that the ‘ceramic heater’ component may consist of spiral-wound flat coils embedded within a ceramic matrix and driven at radio frequencies to heat the wafer by means of eddy currents induced in the steel plates, and that Rossi is also using such coils to produce the ‘frequencies’ that actually drive the CF reactions.

    The patent below describes some interesting effects that arise between multiple Tesla (flat spiral) coils when the RF input is tuned to the coils, the main item of interest being the production of intense EM fields in the spaces between the coils, when RF input is correctly tuned.

    http://www.google.com/patents/

    This raises the possibility that Rossi may be using non-resonant RF driver frequencies to heat the wafers, and resonant RF (matched to coils) to produce the EM fields that drive the CF reactions. Pulsing the RF input could maintain resonance but match oscillation frequency to the requirements of the wafer fuel.

    It seems possible that as I suggested in an earlier post, Rossi’s inspiration was to look for current induced back into the flat coils while the wafers are in SSM and requiring no power input.

    The above would of course depend on the idea that some kind of self-driven oscillating field is directly created by the fuel layers when CF reactions are occurring.

    Does anyone who actually knows what they are talking about (unlike myself) see any merit in the suggestions above?

    • GreenWin

      FYI, your patent link was truncated. Any idea of what temps this RF configuration can achieve?

      • Agaricus

        Sorry ’bout that – link now repaired. AFAIK the couple RF coils will generate a powerful EM field in free air, presumably sufficient for induction heating, but I’m not certain whether the interposing of steel plates will destroy the EM resonant coupling effect. I’m guessing the only limit on achievable temperature would be the melting point of the coil material.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Interesting concept, but perhaps the source of energy is directly related to alpha particle capture. I attended a presentation by a graduate student on the use of nuclear materials for producing long-life, high energy density batteries. In fact, the student won a prize at a competition for his idea. Here is a link:

      http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~blanchar/res/BlanchardKorea.pdf

      Could this be the power production method?

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi says that the current produced is DC. coils produce AC. The wafer is producing the DC current. Rossi must be using a grid to pick up negatively charged particles coming from the wafer. He can add controls by also adding additional grids between the wafer and the collection grid where DC voltage is supplied. This is how a vacuum tube works.

      • Agaricus

        Do’t forget tha Rossi modified a reactor very quickly. The solution you suggest sounds like a rebuild job. Perhaps Rossi’s modification was just to put a diode bridge across the plates or Tesla coil?

        • Axil Axil

          The diode bridge would mess up the input power waveform.

          All Rossi needed to do was put the wafer in a metal box that was connected to a wire. The DC current would flow down that wire into a load and then into the ground.

          • US_Citizen71

            You may have nailed it!

            Gherardo

            January 2nd, 2016 at 7:09 AM

            Dott.Rossi,
            1) is the e-cat X generating DC or AC ?
            2) What ranges of V-A per unit as is today?
            3) If is AC, is what is the frequency?
            4) is that frequency stable as needed to be on te grid?
            5) how do you gather the current ? Inside the vessel or outside?
            Thanks, happy new year, Gherardo

            Translate

            Andrea Rossi

            January 2nd, 2016 at 8:22 AM

            Gherardo:
            1- DC
            2- n.a.
            3- n.a.
            4- outside
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Would that mean that the supposed mechanism violates conservation of charge? Or is there an alternative explanation?

          • Axil Axil

            Like Holmlid, Rossi is producing mesons from the breakdown of protons and neutrons. This is a CPT violation.

            Google monopoles catalyze proton decay

          • Buck

            Rossi has given an estimate of how long to gain regulatory approval and certification for use by consumers . . . 2 Years.

            Italo R.
            January 2nd, 2016 at 5:13 AM

            Dear Dr. Rossi, the E-Cat-X has certainly now great difficulty to be used among the common people. Not for capabilities that are close to real using, but for the enormous restrictions that regulations oblige to apply.

            I imagine that you are working on both fronts – technology and regulations. Can you predict the timing? Thank you

            Kind Regards,
            Italo R.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Andrea Rossi
            January 2nd, 2016 at 8:29 AM

            Italo R.:

            I hope 2 years. But, while tech depends on us, regulations and certifications don’t. Applications managed by a public service could be easier to certify, though, since the operation would be controlled by certified professionals. Therefore the “dream” could be eased.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Axil Axil

            Deployment will be easier in China. Since competition is always good, China will lite a fire under the regulators in the wast.

          • Buck

            Axil,
            I agree. I’ve thought for a while that Darden’s balancing of different nations with competing interests as a brilliant recognition of political/economic reality.

          • Omega Z

            Maybe Darden just realizes that China is 25% of the World market.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            that is possible.

            However, this uni-dimensional view ignores Darden’s experience of how Environmental Remediation is treated by consumers, industry, and maybe most importantly governments. And, how Cold Fusion has been treated on the world’s stage.

            With this in mind, it seems reasonable to speculate that Darden views the introduction of LENR/Cold Fusion in a more complicated fashion. I’m thinking of a complex strategic that starts at the least with a Porter Five Force analysis. And might include a Technology Adoption Lifecycle analysis.

            Link>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis
            LINK>. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle

          • GreenWin

            Buck, history is cautionary. The Wright brothers offered their technology (with help from local Congress) to the War Department after hundreds of hours of successful flight in their third gen aircraft. The response was a form letter (from the Pentagon) stating their invention ‘unworthy of financing.’

            The Wright’s offered their tech with ‘a loud knock of opportunity’ to DOD. The response was negative, so they went to France.

          • deleo77

            If deployment is in 2 years then I would hope to see a demonstration with validation tests much sooner. If Rossi has the patents filed he should demonstrate the device so others can see it. I know Rossi views secrecy as a high priority but he has shown the E-Cat to people over the years. He even left one with the Lugano testers for months. So why not a basic E-Cat X demo for us all to see this year?

          • Buck

            Since it was just as recent as Christmas day that Rossi discovered what the E-Cat X is capable of, I can only imagine that Rossi, Darden, and the other managers/executives involved with the R&D and commercial rollout have been discussing and developing the “best ideas”.

            In light of the mantra “only a commercial product will win the debate over Cold Fusion”, this could mean a 6-12 month pilot plant demonstration. It certainly fits their history and it recognizes that the E-Cat X is a “revolutionary” improvement over the E-Cat.

            Personally, I would hope for a very nice public demonstration, one to four weeks long. Maybe with the Lugano team for scientific validation and possible explanation.

          • Agaricus

            I think the question that needs to be asked when suggestions like yours are made is what Rossi would gain from such a further demonstration. On the negative side, it would probably be ignored by mainstream ‘journalists’, would provide a target for the trolls, and might even alert potential opposition. On the positive side…?

          • US_Citizen71

            The only positive I can see for another demonstration is for publicity when they are ready to launch a product to the world.

          • Omega Z

            Once production starts, it will take a while to ramp things up.
            From the start, they have more customers then they can provide for.
            After they ramp up, they still have more customers then they can provide for.
            There is no need for publicity. It will all take care of itself…

          • US_Citizen71

            Publicity would help sell licensing for other products and help with the business plan/model presented to banks to get loans to setup/expand production.

          • deleo77

            I don’t know if it would be ignored by mainstream journalists if Darden were leading the demonstration. I could easily see 60 Minutes picking up that story. The reason for doing this in my opinion is because revealing the E-Cat X is much different than Apple revealing a new iPhone. If the E-Cat X operates the way that Rossi says it does then it would be a fundamental breakthrough in science and technology. It’s a product, but it is not just a product. I actually think that people (scientists and non-scientists) simply have a right to see a major discovery along these lines, even if how the reaction itself works is not revealed.

            Who knows what stage of development the E-Cat X is currently at, perhaps it’s not even in demo form, but I do think that a discovery along these lines would go beyond business and IH being a private company. It would be a demonstration showing that cold fusion (or whatever is going on inside) does exist. If Rossi has something along these lines then I think he should show it to the world to at least prepare people for what is coming. I don’t think he needs to show it tomorrow, but it would be nice to see a demo at some point over the next year.

          • GreenWin

            “I actually think that people (scientists and non-scientists) simply have
            a right to see a major discovery along these lines, even if how the
            reaction itself works is not revealed.”

            Ah, if only DOE, DOD, NASA, NSF, APS, etc etc. had the courage and vision to openly finance Dr. Rossi and the E-Cat. But they did not. And so deleo77 – you will have to wait until Dottore/IH/and others deem it timely to do so.

            With a modicum of vision (e.g. global fossil divestment) people are “…being prepared for what is coming.”

          • Jonnyb

            Say we have a large static magnetic field, an alternating magnetic field would be easy to get useful voltages out of, just a coil within this alternating field. With a static magnetic field it is tricky, I was wondering if you could switch the field by electrically reversing a static coil, so in effect making it seem alternating even though it was static. This would be simple to do electronically. Anyone any ideas on how to generate efficient and usable voltages from a static magnetic field?

          • Agaricus

            Turn it on and off in a rapid cycle. Current induced into a coil would then be pulsed DC.

          • Jonnyb

            Yeh a possibility but stresses on e-cat maybe high, assuming you can switch it that fast.

          • Axil Axil

            The method that gathers the electric power must be passive and therefore cannot interfere with the input waveform that stimulates the LENR reaction.

          • Agaricus

            I’m not saying that is the method used – I was just answering JonnyB’s question about how a fixed polarity field might generate current by induction. That said, it seems conceivable that the quantum level operation (phonon generation) of the wafer might be altered via the driver signal to produce a series of half waves of the same amplitude of a full sinusoidal cycle, which might generate a pulsating monopolar field.

            There seems to no shortage of ‘speculation power’ here but we are desperately in need of more information I think.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Someone on JoNP recently made a similar proposal, and Rossi considered it to be a „good idea“. Imagine you had a permanent magnet that you could switch on and off with negligible input: That would be a ‘disruptive’ invention in the best sense.

          • Jonnyb

            The only other idea I came up with that Andrea could have done fairly quickly was to have something between two of the units, each unit being a of different magnetic polarity, however not so neat. Also if heat or electricity makes you wonder if the heat is a function of the magnetic field heating up some ferrous material, hence one or the other or mixture of.

          • Axil Axil

            Like any permanent magnet, spin the X cat on an rotor.

          • Jonnyb

            Yeh a bit like the solution below, not neat. Switched polarity coil simple and neat with non polarised capacitor, couple of IGBTs for switching and some simple control electronics. Then improvements from then on, could be done in a few days.

          • Jonnyb

            The other obvious mechanical route is to have everything fixed on Ferromagnetic material as a magnetic loop then have a solenoid acting on a Ferromagnetic switch or some other kind of Ferromagnetic Switch (liquid ferrous?) completing and breaking the loop. This output from the coil in this circuit loop would need to be rectified as would have current flowing one way on making the circuit and the other on Breaking it. Not that neat but better than swinging the e-cat around and much more efficient.

          • artefact

            What would Rossi need to control the electricity flow for the control of the reaction? A transistor?

          • Axil Axil

            Yes, a transistor would work nicely.

            https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ89SN_eKNFyqdI7gZToYVbvEp5OAcfaEHoe9OTP_LI7yHTK48Q9Q

            Dear Rossi is a very cleaver fellow. He deserves the utmost in respect.

          • TomR

            Thank you for the last 2 sentences, Axil Axil, I wish Rossi would return the favor to you. I think you would be a great addition to the team, you might have to be not so positive about all your thoughts. Rossi needs someone like you to give him things to think about for future projects.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        But wouldn’t that require a vacuum? Electrons don’t fly far in air. Your proposal sounds the same as thermionic emission power source or perhaps I didn’t understand it. Is there a difference?

        • Axil Axil

          Yes, a vacuum is best. It would also keep the wafer hot maximizing electric production. Rossi could have detected power production in air but latter uses a vacuum to optimize power production.

          Background:
          The phenomenon was initially reported in 1873 by Frederick Guthrie in Britain. While doing work on charged objects, Guthrie discovered that a red-hot iron sphere with a negative charge would lose its charge (by somehow discharging it into air). He also found that this did not happen if the sphere had a positive charge. Other early contributors included Johann Wilhelm Hittorf (1869–1883),Eugen Goldstein (1885), and Julius Elster and Hans Friedrich Geitel (1882–1889).

          The effect was rediscovered by Thomas Edison on February 13, 1880, while trying to discover the reason for breakage of lamp filaments and uneven blackening (darkest near the positive terminal of the filament) of the bulbs in his incandescent lamps.

          Edison built several experimental lamp bulbs with an extra wire, metal plate, or foil inside the bulb that was separate from the filament and thus could serve as an electrode. He connected a galvanometer, a device used to measure current (the flow of charge), to the output of the extra metal electrode. If the foil was put at a negative potential relative to the filament, there was no measurable current between the filament and the foil. When the foil was raised to a positive potential relative to the filament, there could be a significant current between the filament through the vacuum to the foil if the filament was heated sufficiently (by its own external power source).

  • Further down the thread, US_Citizen71 asks, “why would you have the necessary hardware to tap induced currents already installed on a test reactor…”

    There is a possible configuration that might answer this. This is that the ‘ceramic heater’ components may actually be induction heaters rather than resistances, consisting of spiral-wound flat coils (Tesla coils) of thick, heat resisting alloy wire, embedded within a ceramic matrix. These would be driven at radio frequencies in order to heat the wafer by means of eddy currents induced in the steel plates. If this is the case then the flat coils could also be utilised to inject the ‘frequencies’ that actually drive the CF reactions.

    The 2010 patent below, which AR could well be aware of, describes some interesting effects that arise between paired Tesla coils when the RF input is tuned to the coils, the main item of interest being the production of intense EM fields in the spaces between the coils, when RF input is at certain frequencies.

    http://www.google.com/patents/US20100059692

    This raises the possibility that Rossi may be using non-resonant RF driver frequencies to heat the wafers by induction, and resonant RF (matched to coils) to produce the EM fields that drive the CF reactions. Pulsing the RF input between high and low levels of power could maintain resonance but match oscillation frequency to the requirements of the wafer fuel, independent of the RF base frequency.

    It seems possible that as I suggested in an earlier post, Rossi’s inspiration was to look for current induced back into the flat coils while the wafers are in SSM and requiring no external power input. This would of course depend on the idea that some kind of self sustaining, coherent, oscillating field is directly created by the fuel layers when CF reactions are occurring.

    http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US20100059692A1/US20100059692A1-20100311-D00000.png

    Does anyone who actually knows what they are talking about (unlike myself) see any merit in the suggestions above?

    • GreenWin

      FYI, your patent link was truncated. Any idea of what temps this RF configuration can achieve?

      • Sorry ’bout that – link now repaired (http://www.google.com/patents/US20100059692 ).

        AFAIK the coupled RF coils will generate a powerful EM field in free air, presumably sufficient for induction heating, but I’m not sure whether or not interposing steel plates will prevent or degrade the EM resonant coupling effect. I’m guessing the only limit on achievable temperature would be the melting point of the steel plates or coil material.

        As an aside, I’m not fully convinced that the steel plates are there solely to conduct heat out of the wafer. Intuition suggests that they have one or more other functions that depend on ferromagnetism – either as induction heater elements per my post, or as armatures to focus or restrict self induced magnetic fields in the fuel layer (or both).

        Possibly a resonance effect (electron cloud oscillation, i.e., coherent surface plasmons) arises in the fuel layer, the frequency of oscillation (and stimulation?) of which varies according to the distance between each pair of steel plates sandwiching the fuel layer. Such an effect might conceivably be polarised on an axis at 90 degrees to the plates, giving rise to the possibility of the plates forming the poles of an alternating EM field that self-drives the CF reaction during SSM and which could also be tapped for power.

        On Edit: I came across a book that I suspect may be high on Rossi’s reading list:

        https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yKOtuRjNRoYC&pg=PA201&lpg=PA201&dq=oscillation+electron+cloud+metal+matrix&source=bl&ots=6ELDVWV9bz&sig=X_88c2-iEAcOi_fGB0robhZ6OJE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB7_vN2IvKAhULvxQKHevLDvgQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=oscillation%20electron%20cloud%20metal%20matrix&f=false

        This covers matters such as the mathematics of the relationships between nanoparticle size, metal matrices and electron cloud effects such as plasmon resonance and energy transfer dynamics.

        • GreenWin

          Cool. I’ll put this on my grok list – currently topped by the film “Spotlight” “…the true story of the Pulitzer Prize-winning Boston Globe investigation that… caused a crisis in one of the world’s oldest and
          most trusted institutions”
          – the Catholic Church.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Interesting concept, but perhaps the source of energy is directly related to alpha particle capture. I attended a presentation by a graduate student on the use of nuclear materials for producing long-life, high energy density batteries. In fact, the student won a prize at a competition for his idea. Here is a link:

      http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~blanchar/res/BlanchardKorea.pdf

      Could this be the power production method?

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi says that the current produced is DC. coils produce AC. The wafer is producing the DC current. Rossi must be using a grid to pick up negatively charged particles coming from the wafer. He can add controls by also adding additional grids between the wafer and the collection grid where DC voltage is supplied. This is how a vacuum tube works.

      • Don’t forget that Rossi modified a reactor very quickly. The solution you suggest sounds like at least a partial rebuild job, especially if construction of suitable grids is included. Perhaps Rossi’s modification was just to put a diode bridge rectifier across the plates or Tesla coil?

        • Axil Axil

          The diode bridge would mess up the input power waveform.

          All Rossi needed to do was put the wafer in a metal box that was connected to a wire. The DC current would flow down that wire into a load and then into the ground.

          • US_Citizen71

            You may have nailed it!

            Gherardo

            January 2nd, 2016 at 7:09 AM

            Dott.Rossi,
            1) is the e-cat X generating DC or AC ?
            2) What ranges of V-A per unit as is today?
            3) If is AC, is what is the frequency?
            4) is that frequency stable as needed to be on te grid?
            5) how do you gather the current ? Inside the vessel or outside?
            Thanks, happy new year, Gherardo

            Translate

            Andrea Rossi

            January 2nd, 2016 at 8:22 AM

            Gherardo:
            1- DC
            2- n.a.
            3- n.a.
            4- outside
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Would that mean that the supposed mechanism violates conservation of charge? Or is there an alternative explanation?

          • Axil Axil

            Like Holmlid, Rossi is producing mesons from the breakdown of protons and neutrons. This is a CPT violation.

            Google monopoles catalyze proton decay

          • Jonnyb

            Say we have a large static magnetic field, an alternating magnetic field would be easy to get useful voltages out of, just a coil within this alternating field. With a static magnetic field it is tricky, I was wondering if you could switch the field by electrically reversing a static coil, so in effect making it seem alternating even though it was static. This would be simple to do electronically. Anyone any ideas on how to generate efficient and usable voltages from a static magnetic field?

          • Turn it on and off in a rapid cycle. Current induced into a coil would then be pulsed DC.

          • Jonnyb

            Yeh a possibility but stresses on e-cat maybe high, assuming you can switch it that fast.

          • Axil Axil

            The method that gathers the electric power must be passive and therefore cannot interfere with the input waveform that stimulates the LENR reaction.

          • I’m not saying that is the method used – I was just answering JonnyB’s question about how a fixed polarity EM field might be made to generate current by induction. That said, it seems conceivable that the quantum level operation (phonon generation?) of the wafer might be altered via the driver signal to produce a series of half waves of the same frequency as the full sinusoidal cycle, which might in turn generate a pulsating field with fixed N-S orientation.

            There is no shortage of speculation here, some of it possibly even bordering on the feasible, but we are desperately in need of more information I think.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Someone on JoNP recently made a similar proposal, and Rossi considered it to be a „good idea“. Imagine you had a permanent magnet that you could switch on and off with negligible input: That would be a ‘disruptive’ invention in the best sense.

          • Jonnyb

            The only other idea I came up with that Andrea could have done fairly quickly was to have something between two of the units, each unit being a of different magnetic polarity, however not so neat. Also if heat or electricity makes you wonder if the heat is a function of the magnetic field heating up some ferrous material, hence one or the other or mixture of.

          • Axil Axil

            Like any permanent magnet, spin the X cat on an rotor.

          • Jonnyb

            Yeh a bit like the solution below, not neat. Switched polarity coil simple and neat with non polarised capacitor, couple of IGBTs for switching and some simple control electronics. Then improvements from then on, could be done in a few days.

          • Jonnyb

            The other obvious mechanical route is to have everything fixed on Ferromagnetic material as a magnetic loop then have a solenoid acting on a Ferromagnetic switch or some other kind of Ferromagnetic Switch (liquid ferrous?) completing and breaking the loop. This output from the coil in this circuit loop would need to be rectified as would have current flowing one way on making the circuit and the other on Breaking it. Not that neat but better than swinging the e-cat around and much more efficient.
            Ferromagnetic Semiconductor, not sure if these could make the magnetic circuit.

          • artefact

            What would Rossi need to control the electricity flow for the control of the reaction? A transistor?

          • Axil Axil

            Yes, a transistor would work nicely. The control signal comes in on “B”.

            http://fourier.eng.hmc.edu/e84/lectures/figures/transistors2.gif

            Dear Rossi is a very cleaver fellow. He deserves the utmost in respect.

          • TomR

            Thank you for the last 2 sentences, Axil Axil, I wish Rossi would return the favor to you. I think you would be a great addition to the team, you might have to be not so positive about all your thoughts. Rossi needs someone like you to give him things to think about for future projects.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        But wouldn’t that require a vacuum? Electrons don’t fly far in air. Your proposal sounds the same as thermionic emission power source or perhaps I didn’t understand it. Is there a difference?

        • Axil Axil

          Yes, a vacuum is best. It would also keep the wafer hot maximizing electric production. Rossi could have detected power production in air but latter uses a vacuum to optimize power production.

          Background:
          The phenomenon was initially reported in 1873 by Frederick Guthrie in Britain. While doing work on charged objects, Guthrie discovered that a red-hot iron sphere with a negative charge would lose its charge (by somehow discharging it into air). He also found that this did not happen if the sphere had a positive charge. Other early contributors included Johann Wilhelm Hittorf (1869–1883),Eugen Goldstein (1885), and Julius Elster and Hans Friedrich Geitel (1882–1889).

          The effect was rediscovered by Thomas Edison on February 13, 1880, while trying to discover the reason for breakage of lamp filaments and uneven blackening (darkest near the positive terminal of the filament) of the bulbs in his incandescent lamps.

          Edison built several experimental lamp bulbs with an extra wire, metal plate, or foil inside the bulb that was separate from the filament and thus could serve as an electrode. He connected a galvanometer, a device used to measure current (the flow of charge), to the output of the extra metal electrode. If the foil was put at a negative potential relative to the filament, there was no measurable current between the filament and the foil. When the foil was raised to a positive potential relative to the filament, there could be a significant current between the filament through the vacuum to the foil if the filament was heated sufficiently (by its own external power source).

  • Warthog

    Capitalism and the free market are alive and well in small businesses around the world. Imperialism died after WWII (see “British Empire” and the rest of colonialism). Communism (the other “real” imperialism) is dying as we speak. China is “de facto” capitalist…they just don’t/won’t use the “C-word” to describe their system.

    The social experiments have all been done with respect to capitalism vs socialism, and socialism loses in every case. We have seen the political transition of nations (or parts of nations) from imperialism to socialism (Korea, Vietnam, Venezuela), and from socialism to capitalism (Chile, China, Vietnam),and “twin studies” (North and South Korea, West and East Germany). The data is in…..socialism fails….even when it has all the resource advantages in its favor (Venezuela/oil).

    The problem you and George have is that you want some or other “top-down” solution imposed, which has already proven not to work, while the “real” solution is growing organically with things like the Internet, and economic institutions like Kickstarter and other “bottum-up” changes it makes possible. The whole “communist/bourgeosie” meme is a dead end. See:

    http://deirdremccloskey.org/docs/pdf/McCloskey_IdeasEnrichedTheWorld.pdf

    The Internet was the “real” revolution. LENR can and will accelerate things hugely, but the fundamental changes are already happening without it. Crony capitalist businesses will, I think, prove to be “dinosaurs” in the long run, unable to compete with faster/smarter “mammals”.

  • Valeriy Tarasov

    After reading the Rossi patent and his statement to fulfil the patent requirements for E-catX, I think that it is very likely he is using thermoelectric effect and he replaced the two thermally conducted layers (steel) 50 and 52 with layers of other materials (which he was looking for to withstand high temperature) to have thermoelectric effect from these two layers. At least, I would try this definitely.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Edwin January 2nd, 2016 at 6:54 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    What is the expected life of an E.Cat X?
    Thak you, Edwin

    Andrea Rossi January 2nd, 2016 at 8:24 AM
    Edwin:
    130,000 hours ( projections)
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    130,000 hours -> ~15 years

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Wow

    • Axil Axil

      Does this assume that the fuel will also last for 15 years? It looks like the wafer is welded together. A reactor that has run out of fuel could last 1,000,000 years, but would be of no use.

      • Jonnyb

        Useful for space travel.

        • mcloki

          Coupled with a Hall Ion Thruster. Space asteroid mining becomes very feasible.

          • Axil Axil

            This is why science needs to get on board with LENR. LENR is the doorway to the stars.

          • GreenWin

            Does G Clooney know that?

    • US_Citizen71

      That makes the light pole analogy used in his New Year’s post a bit more clear.

      • Warthog

        Not sure what you mean by a “partial right”?? Wyoming as a territory established “equal suffrage” for both men and women. What happened when Wyoming became a US state, I don’t recall, as it has been years since I studied the issue.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Edwin January 2nd, 2016 at 6:54 AM
    Dr Andrea Rossi:
    What is the expected life of an E.Cat X?
    Thak you, Edwin

    Andrea Rossi January 2nd, 2016 at 8:24 AM
    Edwin:
    130,000 hours ( projections)
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    130,000 hours -> ~15 years

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Wow

    • Axil Axil

      Does this assume that the fuel will also last for 15 years? It looks like the wafer is welded together. A reactor that has run out of fuel could last 1,000,000 years, but would be of no use.

      • Jonnyb

        Useful for space travel.

        • mcloki

          Coupled with a Hall Ion Thruster. Space asteroid mining becomes very feasible.

          • Axil Axil

            This is why science needs to get on board with LENR. LENR is the doorway to the stars.

          • GreenWin

            Does G Clooney know that?

    • US_Citizen71

      That makes the light pole analogy used in his New Year’s post a bit more clear.

  • artefact

    On JONP: (Pekka / Rossi)

    1- Does the E-cat X tolerate vibrations when running hot? This property would be relevant in all car applications.
    2- In the US. patent, it is mentioned (page 9, left column, line 20) that mica layers are covered by “a protective polymer coating”. I think that most or all polymers decompose or melt already at relatively low temperature. Is the idea that the polymer coating purposefully outgasses and carbonises itself when first run, like what happens in the production process of carbon fibres?
    AR:
    1- yes
    2- we have on course a new patent related to this issue: I prefer not to risk a pre-disclosure

    • artefact

      It will take a while but at some point in the future there will be lots and lots of patents published it seems.

    • US_Citizen71

      It depends what the polymer is, Sulfur can be easily turned into a polymer by melting it for example.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Interesting, I didn’t know that. But sulfur has boiling point 444 C, which means I think that it evaporates easily, is volatile.

        • US_Citizen71

          Oh I don’t think it is sulfur but when we think of polymers we automatically think of plastics they are not all encompassing of what a polymer is. Making Sulfur into a polymer was one of the experiments we did in high school chemistry while learning about polymers as all it required was a crucible and a low flame from a burner.

          edit: Upon reread of this I see that it could be taken as condescending not my intention. I forget most did not have a wonderfully magnificent Chemistry teacher like I did in high school. Mrs. Berger’s lessons and teaching style made chemistry both easily accessible as well as memorable. She received many awards county, state and national for her efforts.

      • Silicon also forms polymers (polysiloxanes), but like sulphur these aren’t stable beyond about 400C. When polysiloxanes break down completely at higher temperatures though, they leave a silicon dioxide residue that might still retain some structural integrity (= protective silica coating?).

  • Mats002

    This is post #359 which make this thread longer than previous record of 358 (the one about electricity from the X-Cat 🙂

    Happy 2016 from the Canary Islands, 27 C at aqualand with happy kids running around.

    • Jarea

      Lucky you!

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Just Great a product soon I hope!

  • aljobo

    Slightly OT but there’s a great post from Carl Page, Google Larry Page’s brother, on Edge.org on LENR. http://edge.org/response-detail/26753 and http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2433-Carl-Page-on-Edge-org-MOST-INTERESTING-RECENT-SCIENTIFIC-NEWS-Low-Energy-Nuclear/ .

    • Link also posted later by US_Citizen71 above – he got more upticks I’m afraid!

      Thanks for the information that Carl is Larry Page’s brother. That is very interesting.

  • Agaricus

    I’m too busy trying to remember how socks work.

    • GreenWin

      Reason I go barefoot.

  • Buck

    Rossi has given an optimistic estimate of how long to gain regulatory approval and certification for use by consumers . . . 2 Years.

    Italo R.
    January 2nd, 2016 at 5:13 AM

    Dear Dr. Rossi, the E-Cat-X has certainly now great difficulty to be used among the common people. Not for capabilities that are close to real using, but for the enormous restrictions that regulations oblige to apply.

    I imagine that you are working on both fronts – technology and regulations. Can you predict the timing? Thank you

    Kind Regards,
    Italo R.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Andrea Rossi
    January 2nd, 2016 at 8:29 AM

    Italo R.:

    I hope 2 years. But, while tech depends on us, regulations and certifications don’t. Applications managed by a public service could be easier to certify, though, since the operation would be controlled by certified professionals. Therefore the “dream” could be eased.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Axil Axil

      Deployment will be easier in China. Since competition is always good, China will lite a fire under the regulators in the wast.

      • Buck

        Axil,
        I agree. I’ve thought for a while that Darden’s balancing of different nations with competing interests as a brilliant recognition of political/economic reality.

        • Omega Z

          Maybe Darden just realizes that China is 25% of the World market.

          • Buck

            OZ,

            that is possible.

            However, this one-dimensional view ignores Darden’s experience of how Environmental Remediation is treated by consumers, industry, and maybe most importantly governments. And, how Cold Fusion has been treated on the world’s stage.

            With this in mind, it seems reasonable to suggest that Darden views the introduction of LENR/Cold Fusion in a more complicated fashion. I’m thinking of a complex strategic view that starts at the least with a Porter Five Force analysis. And might include a Technology Adoption Lifecycle analysis.

            The essential point is that only governments have the capacity to overcome the powerful political/economic interests of the existing Energy Industry. And as Axil implies, the US is not about to let China gain a monopolistic advantage through the refusal to legalize LENR energy sources.

            Link>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis
            LINK>. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle

          • GreenWin

            Buck, history is cautionary. The Wright brothers offered their technology (with help from local Congress) to the War Department after hundreds of hours of successful flight in their third gen aircraft. The response was a form letter (from the Pentagon) stating their invention ‘unworthy of financing.’

            The Wright’s offered their tech with ‘a loud knock of opportunity’ to DOD. The response was negative, so they went to France.

    • deleo77

      If deployment is in 2 years then I would hope to see a demonstration with validation tests much sooner. If Rossi has the patents filed he should demonstrate the device so others can see it. I know Rossi views secrecy as a high priority but he has shown the E-Cat to people over the years. He even left one with the Lugano testers for months. So why not a basic E-Cat X demo for us all to see this year?

      • Buck

        Since it was just as recent as Christmas day that Rossi discovered what the E-Cat X is capable of, I can only imagine that Rossi, Darden, and the other managers/executives involved with the R&D and commercial rollout have been discussing and developing the strategic “best solutions”.

        In light of the mantra “only a commercial product will win the debate over Cold Fusion”, this could mean a 6-12 month pilot plant demonstration. It certainly fits their history and it recognizes that the E-Cat X is a “revolutionary” improvement over the E-Cat.

        Personally, I would hope for a very nice public demonstration, one to four weeks long. Maybe with the Lugano team for scientific validation and possible explanation.

      • I think the question that needs to be asked when this is suggested is what Rossi would gain from such a further demonstration. On the minus side, it would cost time and money, would probably be ignored by mainstream ‘journalists’, could give away secrets, would provide a target for the trolls, and might even alert potential opposition. On the plus side…?

        • US_Citizen71

          The only positive I can see for another demonstration is for publicity when they are ready to launch a product to the world.

          • Omega Z

            Once production starts, it will take a while to ramp things up.
            From the start, they have more customers then they can provide for.
            After they ramp up, they still have more customers then they can provide for.
            There is no need for publicity. It will all take care of itself…

          • US_Citizen71

            Publicity would help sell licensing for other products and help with the business plan/model presented to banks to get loans to setup/expand production.

        • deleo77

          I don’t know if it would be ignored by mainstream journalists if Darden were leading the demonstration. I could easily see 60 Minutes picking up that story. The reason for doing this in my opinion is because revealing the E-Cat X is much different than Apple revealing a new iPhone. If the E-Cat X operates the way that Rossi says it does then it would be a fundamental breakthrough in science and technology. It’s a product, but it is not just a product. I actually think that people (scientists and non-scientists) simply have a right to see a major discovery along these lines, even if how the reaction itself works is not revealed.

          Who knows what stage of development the E-Cat X is currently at, perhaps it’s not even in demo form, but I do think that a discovery along these lines would go beyond business and IH being a private company. It would be a demonstration showing that cold fusion (or whatever is going on inside) does exist. If Rossi has something along these lines then I think he should show it to the world to at least prepare people for what is coming. I don’t think he needs to show it tomorrow, but it would be nice to see a demo at some point over the next year.

          • GreenWin

            “I actually think that people (scientists and non-scientists) simply have
            a right to see a major discovery along these lines, even if how the
            reaction itself works is not revealed.”

            Ah, if only DOE, DOD, NASA, NSF, APS, etc etc. had the courage and vision to openly finance Dr. Rossi and the E-Cat. But they did not. And so deleo77 – you will have to wait until Dottore/IH/and others deem it timely to do so.

            With a modicum of vision (e.g. global fossil divestment) people are “…being prepared for what is coming.”

  • Anon2012_2014

    Any reason to think that this is anything more than a Seebeck generator using the LENR metallic interface (i.e. Nickel) as one of the two different materials? Seeback generators have a 5 to 8% max efficiency. Any other ideas?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Reason to think otherwise is that AR says that efficiency is some 50%. An idea that might give this efficiency would be thermophotovoltaics. It might be rather simple to implement, but it would require an additional layer in the sandwich or wafer. I don’t know of any “known” solution which would give 50% efficiency and which Rossi could have implemented in 5 minutes in his lab after getting the idea.

      • US_Citizen71

        My thoughts initially was some type of TEG but I thought it would have just been stuck to the outside with its own heatsink or placed where the current heatsink is.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rossi has a long professional experience with Seebeck (also called TEG) and if I recall right he got some 20% efficiency with it by a handmade device, but wasn’t able to industrialise its production process. If he now has 50% Seebeck, it surpasses his earlier efforts by a large margin. From this history and from Rossi’s remarks I’m inclined to guess that what Rossi has now in E-cat X is something else than Seebeck.

          • US_Citizen71

            Me too! Hard to adjust the output of a Seebeck generator other than reducing heat to it,

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Unless you are pulling the heat away with some working fluid – you send that fluid out as useable heat energy, or you send the fluid though some type of device that converts the heat energy into electricity.

            I dare say without additional info from Rossi, it difficult to “guess” how the electrical energy is being created, but regardless, Rossi has ruled out a thermo-couple.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Albert D. Kallal

        I did not see the 50% number. Can direct me to this?

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rossi’s long newyear’s posting http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=38#comment-1144325 ,
          “…of which about half were turned into heat … the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households.”

          • Albert D. Kallal

            But that’s in the context of half of the devices (lampposts) being used for heat, and half of the devices being used for electricity- not that some 50% conversion rate of heat into electricity exists.
            So half the devices are being used to generate electricity – not that some 50% conversion rate of heat into electricity exists. I don’t see that statement centering on some conversion % rate into electricity, but only that half the units are being used as such – a significantly different statement.

            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Axil Axil

          LENR produces subatomic particles. Lief Holmlid has shown that mesons are generated by LENR. Mesons will decay into electrons. Electrons are coming out of the LENR reaction in the same way as neutrons are generated by a nuclear reaction.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Could the electrons formed just be delta rays? “A delta ray is characterized by very fast electrons produced in quantity by alpha particles or other fast energetic charged particles knocking orbiting electrons out of atoms.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray

            From the 8.7 MeV alphas, He(4) from the following reaction.

            Li (7) + H(1) > 2He(4) 17.4 MeV

          • Axil Axil

            It seem to me, the reaction product cannot involve the production of gas in any great quantity because the very small volume of the fuel compartments in the wafer. This gas pressure limit imposed by the wafer undercuts the alpha particle idea. Alpha particles will also require 2 electrons to stabilize. This works against the excess electron idea.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            The fuel being consumed had electrons in its
            shells so the electrons are conserved

          • Axil Axil

            I contend that in the LENR reaction, negative charge is created is violation of the conservation of charge law because LENR involves the strong force where protons and neutrons are subject to decay as a result of a monopole magnetic field generated in a superconductor. SPPs are analog monopoles,

            http://physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/EP/rubakov_rpp_51_189_88.pdf

            Monopole catalysis of proton decay

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I really don’t know what the mechanism is but my simple minded approach is to look at the fuel and compare it with the ash. Lithium-7 is disappearing and Rossi is seeing the creation of helium.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            OK I’ve said enough. Apparently I’m stuck this classical
            Cockcroft-Walton reaction (from 1931) H(1) + Li(7) > 2 He(4).

            This has been my obsessive thought ever since Sven Kullander found
            lithium in Rossi’s nickel powder.
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/01/30/rossi-work-in-e-cat-factories-never-been-so-intense/#comment-790442280

          • Axil Axil

            Where is the reference to the helium creation? Lugano?

          • Alan DeAngelis
    • US_Citizen71

      Depends on your interpretation of this exchange I suppose:

      Hugh DeVries

      January 1st, 2016 at 1:00 PM

      Andrea Rossi:
      Happy New Year!!

      There are nuclear powered sources today which generate electricity and heat directly for use in space mission applications. These power sources use radioactive decay of elements to provide heat and direct generation of electricity. Some are referred to as Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs).
      How does the E-Cat X using LENR differ from these sources?

      Hugh

      Andrea Rossi

      January 1st, 2016 at 4:50 PM

      Hugh De Vries:
      the devices you citeuse plutonium as a heat source to make the Seebeck effect.
      The E-Cat does not use or produce radioactive materials.
      Warm Regards
      A.R.

      Does A.R. mean that he doesn’t use plutonium, radioactive materials or the Seebeck effect or does he mean he doesn’t use any plutonium or radioactive materials and silent F9 on the Seebeck effect?

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Interesting, but Rossi DIRECTLY dances around the issue of thermal-couple.

        In other words, Rossi states the difference is “only” the plutonium and radioactive materials.

        I mean the difference here is radioactive materials, not the Seebeck effect.

        This again much suggests that the electricity being produced here is indeed the Seebeck effect (a simple thermal-couple).

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Warthog

      “As far as an economic theory is concerned, you are right.”

      Well, this “is” the direction I am coming at the subject from…

      But from an emotional context, you are quite correct. The ONLY way communism can be established is by fomenting irrational hatred of the “bourgeoisie” (i.e. pretty much anyone who has gumption and initiative and is willing to work hard as hell to start and/or run a business). The progenitor of it all (Marx) was consumed by hatred, because he had an ego lightyears tall AND wide and thought that with his so-called “genius” he should have been in charge, or at least able to make a living. The reality is that Marx was a lazy leech who would have starved to death if he had not been financially supported by Engels. And yet socialists and communists think that his “thought” should be the basis for how the entire world should be organized and have built up a fantasy of economic theory to justify supporting it. It galls them no end that keeps failing on actually being applied.

      The Norse countries are a special case, as they have a long, long tradition of representative democratic governance, having actually invented it (the first real parliament was, as I recall, established in Iceland), which they just can’t bring themselves to give up, so their attempts at socialism are always diluted by democracy, and never reach the degree of “purity” necessary to carry out the actions actually get to “full” socialism, with all the despotism needed for that.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Any reason to think that this is anything more than a Seebeck generator using the LENR metallic interface (i.e. Nickel) as one of the two different materials? Seeback generators have a 5 to 8% max efficiency. Any other ideas?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Reason to think otherwise is that AR says that efficiency is some 50%. An idea that might give this efficiency would be thermophotovoltaics. It might be rather simple to implement, but it would require an additional layer in the sandwich or wafer. I don’t know of any “known” solution which would give 50% efficiency and which Rossi could have implemented in 5 minutes in his lab after getting the idea.

      • US_Citizen71

        My thoughts initially was some type of TEG but I thought it would have just been stuck to the outside with its own heatsink or placed where the current heatsink is.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rossi has a long professional experience with Seebeck (also called TEG) and if I recall right he got some 20% efficiency with it by a handmade device, but wasn’t able to industrialise its production process. If he now has 50% Seebeck, it surpasses his earlier efforts by a large margin. From this history and from Rossi’s remarks I’m inclined to guess that what Rossi has now in E-cat X is something else than Seebeck.

          • US_Citizen71

            Me too! Hard to adjust the output of a Seebeck generator other than reducing heat to it,

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Unless you are pulling the heat away with some working fluid – you send that fluid out as useable heat energy, or you send the fluid though some type of device that converts the heat energy into electricity.

            I dare say without additional info from Rossi, it difficult to “guess” how the electrical energy is being created, but regardless, Rossi has ruled out a thermo-couple.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Albert D. Kallal

        I did not see the 50% number. Can direct me to this?

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rossi’s long newyear’s posting http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=38#comment-1144325 ,
          “…of which about half were turned into heat … the other half was used to enlight the town and to distribute electricity to the households.”

          • Albert D. Kallal

            But that’s in the context of half of the devices (lampposts) being used for heat, and half of the devices being used for electricity- not that some 50% conversion rate of heat into electricity exists.
            So half the devices are being used to generate electricity – not that some 50% conversion rate of heat into electricity exists. I don’t see that statement centering on some conversion % rate into electricity, but only that half the units are being used as such – a significantly different statement.

            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • US_Citizen71

      Depends on your interpretation of this exchange I suppose:

      Hugh DeVries

      January 1st, 2016 at 1:00 PM

      Andrea Rossi:
      Happy New Year!!

      There are nuclear powered sources today which generate electricity and heat directly for use in space mission applications. These power sources use radioactive decay of elements to provide heat and direct generation of electricity. Some are referred to as Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs).
      How does the E-Cat X using LENR differ from these sources?

      Hugh

      Andrea Rossi

      January 1st, 2016 at 4:50 PM

      Hugh De Vries:
      the devices you citeuse plutonium as a heat source to make the Seebeck effect.
      The E-Cat does not use or produce radioactive materials.
      Warm Regards
      A.R.

      Does A.R. mean that he doesn’t use plutonium, radioactive materials or the Seebeck effect or does he mean he doesn’t use any plutonium or radioactive materials and silent F9 on the Seebeck effect?

      But like stated low efficiency unless there has been a breakthrough.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Interesting, but Rossi DIRECTLY dances around the issue of thermal-couple.

        In other words, Rossi states the difference is “only” the plutonium and radioactive materials.

        I mean the difference here is radioactive materials, not the Seebeck effect.

        This again much suggests that the electricity being produced here is indeed the Seebeck effect (a simple thermal-couple).

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • GreenWin

    Re: Obama’s knowledge of E-Cat.

    Having just read McCullough’s “Wright Brothers” biography (thanks Buck) there is an instructive parallel to Cold (E-Cat) vs Hot fusion. While the Wright’s were designing their first manned aircraft, Professor Samuel Pierpont Langley, astrophysicist, professor U.S. Naval Academy / University Pittsburgh, Secretary Smithsonian Institution, Director Allegheny Observatory, President American Assoc. Advancement of Science, etc. – was doing the same.

    But Langley had been given tax payer funding by both the War Department and the Smithsonian Inst. equaling $83.5 million in today’s dollars. The Wright Brothers self-financed their aircraft with profits from their bicycle shop in Dayton, Ohio. As this link points out, Langley flew his manned “Aerodrome” on December 9, 1903 from a catapult on the Potomac River.

    The aircraft crashed on launch nearly drowning the Professor in the icy Potomac. Eight days later the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk. Today, the irony is one of LENR’s early proponents Dr. Dennis Bushnell is Chief Scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center – named after Samuel P.

    CORRECTION: The last sentence in this article should read:

    “In spite of 18 years of well-funded and concerted effort by [Prof] Langley to achieve immortality, his singular contribution to the invention of the airplane was the pair of 30-mph aerodromes that flew in 1896. He died in 1906 after a series of strokes, a broken and disappointed man.”

    http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/i/Langley/Langley.html

  • GreenWin

    Re: Obama’s knowledge of E-Cat.

    Having just read McCullough’s “Wright Brothers” biography (thanks Buck) there is an instructive parallel to Cold (E-Cat) vs Hot fusion. While the Wright’s were designing their first manned aircraft, Professor Samuel Pierpont Langley, astrophysicist, professor U.S. Naval Academy / University Pittsburgh, Secretary Smithsonian Institution, Director Allegheny Observatory, President American Assoc. Advancement of Science, etc. – was doing the same.

    But Langley had been given tax payer funding by both the War Department and the Smithsonian Inst. equaling $83.5 million in today’s dollars. The Wright Brothers self-financed their aircraft with profits from their bicycle shop in Dayton, Ohio. As this link points out, Langley flew his manned “Aerodrome” on December 9, 1903 from a catapult on the Potomac River.

    The aircraft crashed on launch nearly drowning the Professor in the icy Potomac. Eight days later the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk. Today, the irony is one of LENR’s early proponents Dr. Dennis Bushnell is Chief Scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center – named after Samuel P.

    CORRECTION: The last sentence in this article should read:

    “In spite of 18 years of well-funded and concerted effort by [Prof] Langley to achieve immortality, his singular contribution to the invention of the airplane was the pair of 30-mph aerodromes that flew in 1896. He died in 1906 after a series of strokes, a broken and disappointed man.”

    http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/i/Langley/Langley.html

  • Oystein Lande

    Rossi just said no Seebeck effect is used….

    so he have stated
    – power is harvested directly from the wafer (?)
    – the wafer is generating DC current ( WTF ?)
    – the currents are collected “externaly”

    well I’m confused. And Rossi is a master confusor 😉

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Where did Rossi say the Seebeck effect is not used?

      I mean, I have a car, and you have a car. I ask you what is the difference is?

      And you state:

      My machine runs on diesel.

      Are you no going to conclude that you don’t have a car?

      Rossi answered this to the question of SeeBeck and plutonium powered devices:

      ==== START QUOTE ===

      the devices you cite use plutonium as a
      heat source to make the Seebeck effect.

      The E-Cat does not use or produce
      radioactive materials.

      === END QUOTE ===

      So Rossi stated his device does not use or produce radioactive materials.

      Exactly where did he state the Seebeck effect is not being used?

      So the DIFFERENCE here is plutonium and radiation – NOT the SeeBeck effect.

      So because your car uses gasoline or uses plutonium, you by logic conclude you don’t have a car?

      Rossi flat out stated that the difference in his case he does not use plutonium and radiation. He did not point out in any way that the Seebeck effect is not being used here.

      I certainly accept that the possibility remains that the SeeBeck is NOT being used here, but Rossi certainly NEVER pointed that out in his answer.

      The ONLY difference Rossi stated was the Plutonium/radiation. And the question WAS in the context of the Seeback effect of such NASA devices.

      If there is some additional follow answer by Rossi that flat out states the Seebeck effect is not being used here, then I would most graciously accept and welcome such a quote/statement by Rossi.

      So far, the stated difference from Rossi was no plutonium and no radioactive materials are used to create the electricity – not that the Seebeck effect is not being used here.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • artefact

        On JONP:

        “Andrea Rossi January 2nd, 2016 at 3:51 PM
        Oystein Lande:
        No, we do not use the Seebeck effect.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.”

        • Oystein Lande

          Excactly 🙂

          His answer on my short and consise question:


          Øystein Lande
          January 2nd, 2016 at 12:59 PM
          Dear mr. Rossi,

          You say you collect current externaly from ecat-x as DC current.

          Do you mean by Seebeck effect?

        • From people involved in experiments with the Hotcat I heard long time ago about something that sounded like signs of electrostatic charge being built up in the reactor body. From that I draw the conclusion that gaining electricity from the process is being made directly, without adding any external technology such as thermogenerators etc.

          • Hi Mats, nice to hear that.

            What do you mean by “from people involved in experiments”? Rossi or real independent researchers?

          • Not from Rossi himself. But whether anyone in the E-Cat story could be considered independent is, as you know, infinitely discussed.

          • Axil Axil

            It could be a matter of degree. The old style reactor was not powerful enough to expose useful electron production. But the X Cat has a marked increase in power density. Now with the X Cat, far more electrons are produced. If Rossi could move away from heat as the stimulator to electrons or visible light, then the next Rossi invention will be really special.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Any idea if that charge was positive or negative (similarities are purely coincidental…)?

          • No.

          • Axil Axil

            The Edison Effect only works for negative charge. So the charge coming off the wafer must be negative.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I would be careful with the „must be“, although a negative charge appears most likely.

          • Axil Axil

            The phenomenon was initially reported in 1873 by Frederick Guthrie in Britain.[1] While doing work on charged objects, Guthrie discovered that a red-hot iron sphere with a negative charge would lose its charge (by somehow discharging it into air). He also found that this did not happen if the sphere had a positive charge.[2]

            See:

            1- Guthrie, Frederick(October 1873). “On a relation between heat and static electricity”. The London, Edinburgh and Dublin Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science. 4th 46: 257–266.

            Guthrie, Frederick(February 13, 1873). “On a new relation between heat and electricity”.Proceedings of the Royal Society of London 21: 168–169.doi:10.1098/rspl.1872.0037.

            2 – Richardson, O. W. (2003).Thermionic Emission from Hot Bodies. Wexford College Press. p. 196. ISBN 978-1-929148-10-3.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            At the moment, it is only a conjecture that the observed charge is produced by the Edison effect. It might be so, but I would prefer to see data before I take it for granted.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi has removed all the alternative possibilities. The chances are good that the conjecture is firm. You will not see data from Rossi, you never have and you never will.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            I wonder if the wafers might be behaving like Thomas Townsend Brown’s capacitors.
            http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/imagenes/brown.jpg

            Could there be gravity hills and gravity wells within the wafer that reduce the coulomb
            barrier by increasing the weight (not the mass) of the cations (Li and H+) and allowing

            (not forcing) them to react, as we’ve proposed before. Li(7) + H(1) > 2He(4)? http://www.doctorkoontz.com/Antigravity/Townsend_Brown/Thomas%20Townsend%20Brown%20Scientific%20Notebooks,%20Vol%202.htm

          • Alan DeAngelis

            VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED:
            Those suffering from Reputation Trap Anxiety Disorder (RTAD) should wait a quarter of a century before viewing this video about Thomas Townsend Brown.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEgGMFK-VU

          • Axil Axil

            The coulomb barrier may not have any impact on the LENR reaction. The appearance of subatomic particles such as mesons, pions and muons point to LENR being a strong force reaction.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            “No, I research not about cold fusion, I research on laser-induced hot fusion.”
            -Leif Holmlid
            Are we talking about different mechanisms for what is all being call LENR?

          • Axil Axil

            I don’t agree with Holmlid for a number of reasons. He is suffering from the hot fusion syndrome that has undercut LENR for these 26 year now.

            The reaction is produced using a laser power level as low as 33 milliwatts. In comparison, a laser pointer powered by a battery produces 100 to 150 milliwatts. Hot fusion is hard to justify as such low power levels. Even room light can cause the reaction to trigger.

            The fuel needs to be hot. The fuel does not fire off right from the getgo and the fuel has a shelf life of a day or two. All this says that there is something else needed to trigger the reaction besides a small rydberg hydrogen matter particle dimension.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Excellent – I much appreciate the follow up.

          Golly, the only thing left I can figure out is if the “fluid” that removes heat from the fins is now laced with some type of iron/steel particles that due to their “flow” will produce a electric current. It is not clear if some type of water or oil is used as the means to pull the heat out of the system, but such flows can produce a current if the fluid in question has some type of ferrous type of material suspended in that working fluid.
          (anyone know what fluid is used to pull heat out of the ecat and ecat-x?

          Most interesting that Sebeck (a thermo-couple) effect is not used. There not a lot of other possible means to convert heat into electric (solid state wise in this context) .
          I am hesitant to think that some “field” exists that allows one to capture electricity from such a field, but if this turns out to the be case, then this certainly suggests some rather genius thinking by Rossi.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • GreenWin

            Al, if we better understood magnetism and permutations thereof – we might have a better idea of where the current flow originates from. Brian Ahern suggested as much last year.

          • Omega Z

            In Lonnie Johnsons Thermal Electric Generator device, the hydrogen passes through a material knowing out electrons. Of course it depends on the hydrogen being heated & cooled to properly circulate.

            http://johnsonems.com/

            http://johnsonems.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/flow-diagram.jpg

    • US_Citizen71
  • Oystein Lande

    Rossi just said no Seebeck effect is used….

    so he have stated
    – power is harvested directly from the wafer (?)
    – the wafer is generating DC current ( WTF ?)
    – the currents are collected “externaly”

    well I’m confused. And Rossi is a master confusor 😉

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Where did Rossi say the Seebeck effect is not used?

      I mean, I have a car, and you have a car. I ask you what is the difference is?

      And you state:

      My machine runs on diesel.

      Are you no going to conclude that you don’t have a car?

      Rossi answered this to the question of SeeBeck and plutonium powered devices:

      ==== START QUOTE ===

      the devices you cite use plutonium as a
      heat source to make the Seebeck effect.

      The E-Cat does not use or produce
      radioactive materials.

      === END QUOTE ===

      So Rossi stated his device does not use or produce radioactive materials.

      Exactly where did he state the Seebeck effect is not being used?

      So the DIFFERENCE here is plutonium and radiation – NOT the SeeBeck effect.

      So because your car uses gasoline or uses plutonium, you by logic conclude you don’t have a car?

      Rossi flat out stated that the difference in his case he does not use plutonium and radiation. He did not point out in any way that the Seebeck effect is not being used here.

      I certainly accept that the possibility remains that the SeeBeck is NOT being used here, but Rossi certainly NEVER pointed that out in his answer.

      The ONLY difference Rossi stated was the Plutonium/radiation. And the question WAS in the context of the Seeback effect of such NASA devices.

      If there is some additional follow answer by Rossi that flat out states the Seebeck effect is not being used here, then I would most graciously accept and welcome such a quote/statement by Rossi.

      So far, the stated difference from Rossi was no plutonium and no radioactive materials are used to create the electricity – not that the Seebeck effect is not being used here.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • artefact

        On JONP:

        “Andrea Rossi January 2nd, 2016 at 3:51 PM
        Oystein Lande:
        No, we do not use the Seebeck effect.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.”

        But don’t be discouraged. Being something else directly from the wavers it could (and sounds like to) be better than the seebeck effect.

        • Oystein Lande

          Excactly 🙂

          His answer on my short and consise question:


          Øystein Lande
          January 2nd, 2016 at 12:59 PM
          Dear mr. Rossi,

          You say you collect current externaly from ecat-x as DC current.

          Do you mean by Seebeck effect?

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Excellent – I much appreciate the follow up.

          Golly, the only thing left I can figure out is if the “fluid” that removes heat from the fins is now laced with some type of iron/steel particles that due to their “flow” will produce a electric current. It is not clear if some type of water or oil is used as the means to pull the heat out of the system, but such flows can produce a current if the fluid in question has some type of ferrous type of material suspended in that working fluid.
          (anyone know what fluid is used to pull heat out of the ecat and ecat-x?

          Most interesting that Sebeck (a thermo-couple) effect is not used. There not a lot of other possible means to convert heat into electric (solid state wise in this context) .
          I am hesitant to think that some “field” exists that allows one to capture electricity from such a field, but if this turns out to the be case, then this certainly suggests some rather genius thinking by Rossi.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • GreenWin

            Al, if we better understood magnetism and permutations thereof – we might have a better idea of where the current flow originates from. Brian Ahern suggested as much last year.

          • Omega Z

            In Lonnie Johnsons Thermal Electric Generator device, the hydrogen passes through a material knowing out electrons. Of course it depends on the hydrogen being heated & cooled to properly circulate.

            http://johnsonems.com/

            http://johnsonems.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/flow-diagram.jpg

    • US_Citizen71
  • US_Citizen71

    Post by Carl Page on edge.org

    2016 : WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER THE MOST INTERESTING RECENT [SCIENTIFIC] NEWS? WHAT MAKES IT IMPORTANT?

    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Work And Could Supplant Fossil Fuels… http://edge.org/response-detail/26753

    • This is just so much awesome.

    • John Littlemist

      For a moment, I thought it was Carl Sagan who said that. Little confusion.

    • GreenWin

      Fascinating. There is a deep kindred spirit in this edge. Thanks US_Citizen for the link. A great way to begin the New Year!

    • Agaricus

      Carl Page’s article seems worthy of a permanent link from this site, as an introduction and overview for newcomers to the topic.

  • US_Citizen71

    Post by Carl Page on edge.org

    2016 : WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER THE MOST INTERESTING RECENT [SCIENTIFIC] NEWS? WHAT MAKES IT IMPORTANT?

    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Work And Could Supplant Fossil Fuels… http://edge.org/response-detail/26753

    • This is just so much awesome.

    • John Littlemist

      For a moment, I thought it was Carl Sagan who said that. Little confusion.

    • GreenWin

      Fascinating. There is a deep kindred spirit in this edge. Thanks US_Citizen for the link. A great way to begin the New Year!

    • Carl Page’s article seems worthy of a permanent link from this site, as an introduction and overview for newcomers to the topic.

  • From people involved in experiments with the Hotcat I heard long time ago about something that sounded like signs of electrostatic charge being built up in the reactor body. From that I draw the conclusion that gaining electricity from the process is being made directly, without adding any external technology such as thermogenerators etc.

    • Casper

      That’s pretty much the only possibility to get direct electric power I guess. But do you think this is good or bad news for Rossis credability? To me it seems he keeps pushing the “too good to be true” limit once more, and without proof it just makes me doubt him more, rather than being excited.

      • Brent Buckner

        I don’t think it much matters whether or not we doubt Rossi – he has enough investment backing to commercialize the Hot Cat (if it is indeed can be commercialized), and he’s not looking to us for any funding. Sure, don’t be excited, but perhaps be careful in your investment choices (including investing in your human capital – e.g. deciding to study petroleum engineering).

      • US_Citizen71

        Fortuitous is the word for it. It might seem to be to good to be true, if transmutations are happening it shouldn’t be unexpected. Extra electrons being generated is not a rare phenomenon in science. With a lemon and the right two coins you can make a battery. Heat and electricity tend to be found together, Seebeck effect for one. Very easy thing to demonstrate from the sounds of it. Rossi has backing right now so credibility can wait and like they say he who laughs last laughs longest.

    • Hi Mats, nice to hear that.

      What do you mean by “from people involved in experiments”? Rossi or real independent researchers?

      • Not from Rossi himself. But whether anyone in the E-Cat story could be considered independent is, as you know, infinitely discussed.

    • Axil Axil

      It could be a matter of degree. The old style reactor was not powerful enough to expose useful electron production. But the X Cat has a marked increase in power density. Now with the X Cat, far more electrons are produced. If Rossi could move away from heat as the stimulator to electrons or visible light, then the next Rossi invention will be really special.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Any idea if that charge was positive or negative (similarities are purely coincidental…)?

      • No.

      • Axil Axil

        The Edison Effect only works for negative charge. So the charge coming off the wafer must be negative.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          I would be careful with the „must be“, although a negative charge appears most likely.

          • Axil Axil

            The Edison effect phenomenon was initially reported in 1873 by Frederick Guthrie in Britain.[1] While doing work on charged objects, Guthrie discovered that a red-hot iron sphere with a negative charge would lose its charge (by somehow discharging it into air). He also found that this did not happen if the sphere had a positive charge.[2]

            http://image.slidesharecdn.com/32047093-radiology-x-ray-production-copy-120106082557-phpapp02/95/radiology-xray-production-20-728.jpg?cb=1325839529

            See:

            1- Guthrie, Frederick(October 1873). “On a relation between heat and static electricity”. The London, Edinburgh and Dublin Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science. 4th 46: 257–266.

            Guthrie, Frederick(February 13, 1873). “On a new relation between heat and electricity”.Proceedings of the Royal Society of London 21: 168–169.doi:10.1098/rspl.1872.0037.

            2 – Richardson, O. W. (2003).Thermionic Emission from Hot Bodies. Wexford College Press. p. 196. ISBN 978-1-929148-10-3.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            At the moment, it is only a conjecture that the observed charge is produced by the Edison effect. It might be so, but I would prefer to see data before I take it for granted.

          • Axil Axil

            Rossi has removed all the alternative possibilities. The chances are good that the conjecture is firm. You will not see data from Rossi, you never have and you never will.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I wonder if the wafers might be behaving like Thomas Townsend Brown’s capacitors.
      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/imagenes/brown.jpg

      Could there be gravity hills and gravity wells within the wafer that reduce the coulomb
      barrier by increasing the weight (not the mass) of the cations (Li and H+) and allowing

      (not forcing) them to react, as we’ve proposed before. Li(7) + H(1) > 2He(4)? http://www.doctorkoontz.com/Antigravity/Townsend_Brown/Thomas%20Townsend%20Brown%20Scientific%20Notebooks,%20Vol%202.htm

      • Alan DeAngelis

        VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED:
        Those suffering from Reputation Trap Anxiety Disorder (RTAD) should wait a quarter of a century before viewing this video about Thomas Townsend Brown.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEgGMFK-VU

      • Axil Axil

        The coulomb barrier may not have any impact on the LENR reaction. The appearance of subatomic particles such as mesons, pions and muons point to LENR being a strong force reaction.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          “No, I research not about cold fusion, I research on laser-induced hot fusion.”
          -Leif Holmlid
          Are we talking about different mechanisms for what is all being call LENR?

          • Axil Axil

            I don’t agree with Holmlid for a number of reasons. He is suffering from the hot fusion syndrome that has undercut LENR for these 26 year now.

            The reaction is produced using a laser power level as low as 33 milliwatts. In comparison, a laser pointer powered by a battery produces 100 to 150 milliwatts. Hot fusion is hard to justify as such low power levels. Even room light can cause the reaction to trigger.

            The fuel needs to be hot. The fuel does not fire off right from the getgo and the fuel has a shelf life of a day or two. All this says that there is something else needed to trigger the reaction besides a small rydberg hydrogen matter particle dimension.

  • Axil Axil

    LENR produces subatomic particles. Lief Holmlid has shown that mesons are generated by LENR. Mesons will decay into electrons. Electrons are coming out of the LENR reaction in the same way as neutrons are generated by a nuclear reaction.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Could the electrons formed just be delta rays? “A delta ray is characterized by very fast electrons produced in quantity by alpha particles or other fast energetic charged particles knocking orbiting electrons out of atoms.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_ray

      From the 8.7 MeV alphas, He(4) from the following reaction.

      Li (7) + H(1) > 2He(4) 17.4 MeV

      • Axil Axil

        It seem to me, the reaction product cannot involve the production of gas in any great quantity because the very small volume of the fuel compartments in the wafer. This gas pressure limit imposed by the wafer undercuts the alpha particle idea. Alpha particles will also require 2 electrons to stabilize. This works against the excess electron idea.

  • Brent Buckner

    I don’t think it much matters whether or not we doubt Rossi – he has enough investment backing to commercialize the Hot Cat (if it is indeed can be commercialized), and he’s not looking to us for any funding. Sure, don’t be excited, but perhaps be careful in your investment choices (including investing in your human capital – e.g. deciding to study petroleum engineering).

  • US_Citizen71

    Fortuitous is the word for it. It might seem to be to good to be true, if transmutations are happening it shouldn’t be unexpected. Extra electrons being generated is not a rare phenomenon in science. With a lemon and the right two coins you can make a battery. Heat and electricity tend to be found together, Seebeck effect for one. Very easy thing to demonstrate from the sounds of it. Rossi has backing right now so credibility can wait and like they say he who laughs last laughs longest.

  • Andy Kumar

    There are times when all the world’s asleep,
    The questions run too deep
    For such a simple man.
    Won’t you please, please tell me what we’ve learned … (this past year).
    .
    Is anyone here ready to say that “the emperor has no clothes.” Please don’t tell me the clothes are made of new meta material, completely transparent fabric!
    .
    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/supertramp/logicalsong.html

    • Mats002

      10CC I presume.

      • roseland67

        Supertramp, no?

    • VicB2B

      Awright. Emperor Moniz has no clothes. Shame.

  • Agaricus

    Link also posted later by US_Citizen71 above – he got more upticks I’m afraid!

    Thanks for the information that Carl is Larry Page’s brother. That is very interesting.

  • hempenearth

    I suppose the remaining licensees will need to do some renegotiating if there is a two year wait for products.

  • hempenearth

    I suppose the remaining licensees will need to do some renegotiating if there is a two year wait for products.

  • roseland67

    I guess the “Big Reveal” will be next New Year’s Day?

  • Mats002

    10CC I presume.

  • LarryJ

    With the age of exponentially rising technology now in full swing, chronological age will soon become a meaningless concept. By around 2040 I will probably be able to trade in my Mark I body for a Mark II and there will be many bridging technologies between now and then to help me make it that far (a la Jimmy Carter). Immortality gives a great new incentive to looking after yourself and a sexually active partner is currently the best known natural hormone therapy and age retardant in the world. CF is just the start. You ain’t seen nuthin yet. What do you imagine will happen when self improving AI shows up within the next decade or two. Because AI will be electrical and we are electro chemical a self aware AI modeled on our brains (a proven prototype) will be capable of as many thoughts in 1 minute as you and I have in 1 year. All of our current problems will be quickly resolved and an entirely new set hatched. Scary but inevitable so be nice to your computer.

  • Warthog

    Not quite. The Greek approach was “direct democracy” (although your point about only slave-owners voting is correct). More akin to the “town-hall meetings” of the northeast US colonies. Not a parliament.

    “The first to establish a democratic system where every man and every
    woman had the right to vote, was Lenin after the bolschevik revolution.”

    Uh no. That honor belongs to the state of Wyoming in the good old US of A.
    which pre-dated Lenin and Trotsky by quite a few years.