LENR is a Fundamental Force of Nature (Axil Axil)

The following post has been submitted by Axil Axil


Liquid Metallic Hydrogen: A Building Block for the Liquid Sun

The reference puts forth a case that explains the sun as a condensed matter object made up of a liquid hydrogen lattice. The evidence that supports this idea is rooted in the continuous black body spectrum of the light that the sun produces. Only a solid like graphite can produce such a continuous spectrum. This idea that the sun is a condensed matter object rather than a gas explains many of the solar mysteries that have perplexed solar science for the last two centuries. But what cannot be explained and what is discouraging the idea that he sun is a condensed matter body made up of liquid hydrogen is how that liquid could remain liquid under the tremendous heat and pressure that exists inside the sun and in its atmosphere.

Another mystery about the sun is why it is not far denser than it is. There is a force intrinsic to the liquid hydrogen from becoming degenerate and therefore keeps the fusion going in the sun.

Degeneracy removes all of the forces which lead to fusion. As such, it should be more reasonable to maintain the relative incompressibility of condensed matter. The Sun, after all, has a very ordinary density of 1.4 g/cm3 [141] and the same is true for the giant planets.

From the conclusion:

Relative to the Sun, a condensed approach brings interesting contrasts and dilemmas versus the gaseous models. The latter are endowed with tremendous mathematical flexibility [1, 2], but their physical relevance appears limited. Gases cannot by themselves impart structure and the solar spectrum is not easily explained in a gaseous framework [9]. The gaseous stars suffer from the stellar opacity problem [9]. Conversely, a liquid metallic hydrogen model imparts a wonderful ability to explain the origin of the solar spectrum relying on the layered structure held in common with graphite [141–149]. Metallic hydrogen possesses a very high critical temperature and can exist as condensed matter even on the solar surface accounting for many features of the Sun best characterized by material endowed with a lattice [141]. Most of the physical attributes of the Sun are more simply explained within the framework of a liquid model [141]. However, a condensed Sun is not as open to theoretical formulations. The advantages of a liquid Sun are now so numerous [20, 141–149] that it is difficult to conceive why the model was not proposed long ago. This speaks to the allure of the gaseous Sun and the mathematical beauty of the associated equations of state. In closing, it should be highlighted that there is currently an effort to describe the Sun as “liquid-like” (e.g. [162]). In the end, the author believes that such terminology should be avoided. If the Sun is condensed, it should be viewed as liquid, not “liquid-like”. Even gases could be “liquid-like”. Such terms cannot be sufficient, since a real lattice is required for production of the solar thermal spectrum. No compromise can be made on this point for those who have studied thermal emission in real materials. “Liquid-like” might refer to anything from a gas, to plasma, to fully degenerate matter, to supercritical fluid and none are necessarily endowed with a lattice. The contention of this work remains that the photosphere of the Sun is liquid, with true lattice structure and ordered interatomic distances. The adoption of liquid metallic hydrogn as a solar constituent brings with it a wealth of possibilities in describing solar structures and understanding the solar spectrum. Central to this advancement, the lattice must remain the foremost element in all of condensed matter, whether here on Earth, within the Sun, and even, in the firmament of the stars. Acknowledgement Luc Robitaille is acknowledged for producing a rendition of graphite’s layered lattice.

LENR is a fundamental force of nature. LENR gives liquid hydrogen its incompressibility. We who have been studying LENR understand that a monopole magnetic shield protects the liquid hydrogen that we know as Rydberg hydrogen matter from becoming degenerated matter in the giant planets and stars. Degenerate matter cannot support fusion so LENR is keeping the sun shining. This monopole force keeps the biggest and most massive stars from burring out and collapsing in on themselves. This monopole force gives LENR the ability to produce nuclear reactions directly within the nucleus of the atom through the strong force. The evidence from the sun and the planets adds to our understanding of what LENR is.

Axil Axil

  • Stephen

    Hi Axil

    Interestingly this article on metallic Hydrogen experiments produced in a lab just appeared on the BBC web site today


    It also appears in more detail in Nature here:


    rather than metallic hydrogen they think they found a precursor phase which is more in the form of layers…

    It is of course produced in this test under extremely high pressures of around 350 Gigapascals rather than using a LENR type process

    I thought it would be interesting to mention it here in connection with your thread, however, and I wonder if they could develop experimental test some of your ideas with this kind of equipment.

    • Zephir

      /* Interestingly the following article on metallic Hydrogen experiments produced in a lab just appeared on the BBC web site today: */

      IMO it’s not a coincidence at all: AxilAxil did read about metallic hydrogen experiments in the same way, like we all did – so he flexibly introduced it into his ideas about cold fusion. He just thinks in associative way. But the trivial question “what would that imply?” distinguishes the associative imaginations from implicate logic based theories in unmistakable way. if you have no logic in interpolation of known facts, you also cannot have any logic for prediction of new facts and your associations become tautological: you cannot use them for prediction of anything.

      • Ophelia Rump

        It implies that the sun is where all the lost socks/ monopoles have gone to.

        • Zephir

          Yep, it would imply, some antimatter is also involved there: the antimatter is also claimed missing after Big bang. Maybe AxilAxil will consider it next time…

          • Axil Axil

            Holmlid’s production of k-mesons in his experiments show CPT violation which leads to the dominance of matter over anti-matter in LENR.


          • Zephir

            You see? I told you so… Also worm holes and extradimensions are included in LENR….

        • GreenWin

          If lost socks go to the sun, that may be where my locker key disappears to. And tent poles.

          • Omega Z

            You got kids or grandkids.
            That be where your tent poles went.
            Star Wars- Lightsabers.
            Tentsabers, the next best thing…

        • mike wolf

          Yea O, maybe all my bics are there too.

      • Axil Axil

        The prediction that comes out of this Rydberg matter involvement in LENR is a EMF spectrum that resembles a blackbody

        • mike wolf

          Keep plugging away Axil, one day you may find something that will contribute to changing the world. Critics have done nothing but bring the world down. Keep dreaming brother, I love reading your posts. A layman can understand a lot of what you write. I ought to know. lol I have always thought it hard to imagine the sun was just gas. I hope you are right. Then I can go around telling people “I told you so”. Just like time is but a line segment in higher dimensions, I will be found right.

          • TomR

            Thank you Mike Wolf for your encouragement of Axil Axil. I am in complete agreement with you.

          • Zephir

            A layman can understand a lot of what you write.

            I can realize it, as the laymen have sloppy thinking. But the people with coherent thinking can also see the gaps in logics. If you will pile blindly new concepts, you’ll find your corn soon or later, but this is not how the science should be done. Like it or not, but if you cannot reproduce the AxilAxil’s stuffs by your own words in logical way, then you only believe, you understood it. But in reality you haven’t understand nothing.

            We are facing this attitude today in development of quantum gravity theories, which is just a giant pile of various ideas without deeper meaning. AxilAxil may look like the dissident of mainstream science for you, but he uses the very same methods, like the mainstream string theorists.

      • mike wolf

        There is a space between Axil Axil genius. Why are you nitpicking Axil Axil? What theories do you have outside the establishments rules of what we are allowed discover? Or are you in lock step with their failure to produce anything from their flawed theories. And I know they are flawed because we’ve gotten nowhere since the quantum paradox. Einstein was right, you guys still haven’t figured out that God doesn’t play dice. I said God, that must really piss you off. hehe I hate know it alls that give nothing and are only good at criticizing others. You seem to have it in for Axil Axil. So every time I see you lower yourself and get personal, I will reciprocate.

    • GordonDocherty

      From the nature article:

      “This new phase of hydrogen is characterized by substantial weakening of
      the vibrational Raman activity, a change in pressure dependence of the
      fundamental vibrational frequency and partial loss of the low-frequency

      Now, where have we read somewhere before of something that, it is believed, through parallel field constraint in diminishing spaces, attenuates low-frequency excitations?

    • Stephen

      Even though the Dense Hydrogen is generated under extremely high pressured in this case, I’m quite curious about a few things:

      1. Can it tell us anything about the ultra dense hydrogen proposed to be produced under very the different conditions involved in Holmlids experiment.

      a) Is there for example any possible mechanism that can mimic these pressures on the nano scale (perhaps under confinement or in strong fields)?
      b) If an entirely different process is involved is there any similarity in the final material produced?
      c) Could very high pressure be an alternative way to produce large quantities of the UDD or similar that could be used for the rest of the process.

      2. What would be the behaviour if it is confined in someway for example within crystal defects.

      3. Would the characteristics of the material be different under strong magnetic fields similar or even higher to those on the sun.

      4. Would the pressures needed to generate the material vary under different magnetic or electric fields

      • Axil Axil

        1. Can it tell us anything about the ultra dense hydrogen proposed to be produced under very the different conditions involved in Holmlids experiment?

        Answered in post starting with the following:
        “Carnegie’s Ivan Naumov and Russell Hemley discover hydrogen forms grapheme layers/clusters instead of metal under pressure.”

      • Axil Axil

        c) Could very high pressure be an alternative way to produce large quantities of the UDD or similar that could be used for the rest of the process?

        A brute force method would be to produce cavitation of lithium hydride at high temperatures.

      • Axil Axil

        b) If an entirely different process is involved is there any similarity in the final material produced?

        The Rydberg hydrogen looks like graphite.

      • Axil Axil

        a) Is there for example any possible mechanism that can mimic these pressures on the nano scale (perhaps under confinement or in strong fields)?

        Question answered in post starting as follows:

        “The key to the Rossi effect is the generation of Rydberg hydrogen matter creation during the fuel preparation process.”

      • Axil Axil

        3. Would the characteristics of the material be different under strong magnetic fields similar or even higher than those on the sun?

        Starting at 4:45 of this video, the flow of cavitation bubbles in a magnetic field produces a vortex flow showing that cavitation bubbles are magnetic in nature.


  • Zephir

    /* LENR is a fundamental force of nature */

    LENR is process, not interaction.

    /* LENR gives liquid hydrogen its incompressibility */

    Why, how, what would that imply?


    • Axil Axil

      From my post above, LeClair produces transuranic elements as a results of the shielding effect of the strong force on the tip of tge water crystal. The monopole in a superconductor can take any nuclear level stress.

      • bachcole

        It is not often that I read an entire Axil Axil comment or article, knowing full well that I probably won’t be able to understand it. But this was nice, although even nicer would be if someone could try to translate it into stupidese for me and probably a few other people.

        Does this mean that the sun and other stars may be giant spheres of crystallized metallic hydrogen, or partially so. What exactly is the photosphere?

        • Zephir

          What exactly is the photosphere?

          A surprisingly sparse plasma of low density, lower than the plasma inside of common fluorescent lamp.

          • Gerald

            Hi Zephir, your knowledge in physics is far greater then mine. What do you think of deep sea mining. If i see what element grow in the sea bottom 4000-6000 meter down it almost looms like an lern experiment.


          • Zephir

            Couldn’t they be formed with corroded/eroded meteorites?

          • Axil Axil

            This could be a bad assumption. The energy produced from the sun could well be transported to its surface by magnetic field lines. It takes a million years for energy to be brought to the surface of the sun by convection. The response time for energy transport is far faster than that.

          • Zephir

            /* The energy produced from the sun could well be transported to its surface by magnetic field lines */

            How? Magnetic field lines don’t transport the heat. Actually its assumed, that the magnetic field of Sun itself is caused with convection – not vice-versa. We have simple evidence for it in eleven-years standing period of solar activity and magnetic field orientation, which is driven with location of Jupiter planet by Coriolis force.

          • Axil Axil
          • Zephir

            If the Sun core is formed with crystallized metallic hydrogen, then the magnetic field lines cannot transport the heat anyway: it would be hydrodynamic transport, which is impossible within solid phase. Don’t pile random stuffs and concepts blindly, you should understand them first.

          • Axil Axil

            metallic hydrogen is a liquid.

          • Zephir

            But you told us, it’s “crystalline”.

          • Axil Axil
          • Zephir

            How the highly compressed and heated electrically conductive plasma is supposed to differ from metallic hydrogen? Could you point to some tangible difference? If not, then the metallic hydrogen is still redundant concept here. We don’t need it for anything in discussions about Sun core physics.

            Actually from your graph follows clearly, that the Sun interior is made of plasma at the 10^7 K temperature. The presence of metallic hydrogen would require much lower temperatures there.

          • Axil Axil

            High pressure liquefies the plasma phase.

          • Zephir

            How the highly compressed and heated liquid plasma is supposed to differ from metallic hydrogen? Could you point to some tangible difference? If not, then the metallic hydrogen is still redundant concept here. We don’t need it for anything in discussions about Sun core physics in accordance to Occam’s razor criterion.

          • Axil Axil

            This is the point of the reference I provided at the top of this thread. It states that the sun is a ball of liquid metal. It is true that some do not accept this idea. I like it, you don’t c’est la vie

          • Zephir

            /* It states that the sun is a ball of liquid metal.*/

            But you also told us 11 hours ago, it’s “crystallized” at the core of Sun.


            After then you linked a study proposing the magnetoHYDRODYNAMIC transport of plasma at the core of Sun.


            Now you linked the graph, which demonstrates, it’s a plasma above 10^7 K.


            As you can see, the evidence you providing constantly contradicts your own claims. Look – one doesn’t need to be a broody hen for being able to recognize, the egg is smelling and aged. I’m not required to be an expert for to see the holes in your ideas. This has anything to do with my liking of ideas, liking you the less.

            /* It states that the sun is a ball of liquid metal. It is true that some do not accept this idea */

            This is not so important – the important is, how the ball of liquid hydrogen metal is supposed to differ from ball of liquid dense hydrogen plasma, as we know it. Which additional insight and predictions would bring the “metal” word for us?

          • Axil Axil

            The phase of the hydrogen is based on both temperature and pressure as defined by its state diagram. Do not let this concept confuse you.

            For example water can be a solid or a liquid or a gas, The same is true with hydrogen.

          • Zephir

            We have two problems here: you’re claiming that the plasma at the core of Sun is metal, despite your graph claims the opposite.


            At second, even if it would, what would that imply? How such a metal plasma differs from normal highly compressed conductive one?


          • Axil Axil

            Read the reference.

          • Zephir

            AxilAxil essentially follows the attitude of mainstream physicists, who dismissed the cold fusion for many years due to fears of lost of grants and money engaged in alternative research. But at the moment, when the physicists decide, there is no other option we will face the huge explosion of interest about cold fusion research. But this research will be again motivated with tendency to develop and sell own grants and theories – not to help the actual implementation of cold fusion.

            IMO the cold fusion has very simple mechanic origin in the same way, like the HT superconductivity – but because the scientists are motivated into piling of concepts without practical value, which are opened for independent research, we can expect the avalanche of similar hypothesis involving tachyons, magnetic monopoles, Rydberg matter, worm holes, axions, heavy and dark neutrons, supersymmetric particles etc. Analogously in superconductor research industry the physicists are engaged in research of charge waves, phonons, magnetic spin phases, Dirac fermions and many other abstract stuffs. Whereas only the people, like Joe Eck, who really understand the principle of superconductivity will do the actual progress without need of all this ballast stuffs.


            Do you see this problem? All these fancy names and concepts will detract us from actual solution of problem, which is practical implementation of cold fusion – nothing less, nothing more. Which is the reason, why I’ve permanent problem both with pathoskeptical mainstream scientists, both with overly enthusiastic superficial crackpots. Because the actual optimal approach is somewhere inbetween – in synergy of both attitudes.

          • Axil Axil

            There is proof showing these exotic mechanisms from multiple sources. But like a mule taken to water, you can’t force him to drink.

          • bachcole

            But where on the Sun?

        • Axil Axil

          Does this mean that the sun and other stars may be giant spheres of crystallized metallic hydrogen…yes and the other planets also,

          From the reference:

          “It is possible, one further observation worth pondering involves a figure presented by Fortov in his new text [103]. The figure in question (Figure 7.7 in [103]) consists of a plot of the log of object diameter versus the log of mass. On such a plot, a straight line passes through all astrophysical objects within our solar system, from the smallest comic dust, to the meteorites,
          to the comets, to the asteroids, to the satellites of planets, to the planets, and finally to the Sun [103, p. 192].

          This plot provides another line of evidence that the Sun should be viewed as condensed matter. Every object on the graph can be considered as condensed. Uranus and Neptune are currently viewed as having metallosilicate cores and mantles of ices [103, p. 193]. Jupiter and Saturn are largely liquid metallic hydrogen or helium in either molecular or atomic form [103, p. 193]. As the only remaining fully gaseous object
          in the solar system, it may be reasonable to suggest that the Sun should not stand alone on such a graph.”

          The photosphere is the atmosphere of the sun.

        • Axil Axil


          The Light Power Spectrum of the SunCell Plasma is
          Equivalent to that of the Sun at 50,000 Times the Intensity

          Intensity-normalized, superposition of visible spectra of the SunCell plasma and Sun’s radiation at the Earth’s surface demonstrating that they both emit blackbody radiation of about 5800-6000K. From the blackbody curves, the SunCell plasma has the same temperature as the Sun emitting the same solar spectrum of light but at extraordinary power equivalent to 50,000 times the Sun’s intensity at the Earth’s surface. The implications are extraordinary. The SunCell plasma has an essentially perfect spectral match to the Sun.


          As in the sun, this shows that the suncell is producing light from a metalized hydrogen molecule with a graphite structure.

          • Omega Z

            Axil Axil

            From where does the Be-8 come from in Rossi’s reactor.
            Is Beryllium a part of the fuel charge.

          • Axil Axil

            There is many elements produced through transmutation by the Rossi fuel processing process including rare earths as shown by the Lugano results.

          • Omega Z

            Axil Axil

            If Beryllium were part of the fuel charge, could that be a part of Rossi’s secret sauce.

            From Wiki- Melting point-1287 °C
            Beryllium improves many physical properties when added as an alloying element to aluminium, copper (notably the alloy beryllium copper), iron and nickel.

          • Axil Axil

            I will get some words to Robitaille. I have also posted on Safire.


            The Safire team seems to be seeing fusion in the dusty plasma condensation layer when the hydrogen plasma first recombines into the non-plasma state. IMHO, this layer of condensing de-ionized hydrogen is likely Rydberg Hydrogen Matter(RHM).

            The Safire method of producing this RHM seems like a simple way to produce RHM. The Safire experiment has a positively charged anode in the center of a hydrogen leak proof box carring a high DC potential. The walls of the box are negatively charged. The power pumped into the box is 1800 watts.

            Safire is seeing power spikes of between 2 to 10 megawatts and transmutation products.

            The main obstacle in LENR engineering is producing RHM for use in the LENR reactor.

            It might be possible to extract this RHM as fuel for a LENR reactor. Or setup a LENR reactor which maintains a Safire like high voltage DC potential between the centrally located high DC voltage anode and the negatively charged reactor walls.

          • Axil Axil

            Beryllium is very dangerous. Because Rossi is still alive speaks against Beryllium as a component of the fuel or the ash. I looked at the Lugano fuel an ash assay and did not see beryllium.

          • GreenWin

            Dr. Mills has long argued that the matter of our universe is less “uncertain” as that suggested by the Heisenberg superposition model of the electron in QM. His Millsian (classical) vs 6-31G (QM) analysis of molecular bond energies seems to confirm this.

            This has far reaching implications as to how we view “matter” and interactions of matter e.g. LENR. QM tells us at the nano-scale there is a “measurement problem” influenced by the observer. Mills’ work implies the observer’s intention (e.g. Sheldrake’s “morphic field” template) or human consciousness – may determine our measurement result. That is, if we (as Mills) are to see or visualize molecular bond energies in a classical or mathematically calculable way — the probability density of just that result collapses the superposition wave function.

            A more visual example might be – if we design a filter (or computer algorithm) to detect a certain pattern in a perfectly chaotic (e.g. random white noise) system – at some point in time that exact pattern will appear. If we view that filter as the substance of human perception – we have an example of how consciousness “appears” to alter the world around us. Human perception molded by experience, and our five senses filters the chaotic universe around us – producing results that we then label empirical “measurements.”

            This suggests a remarkable plasticity in human perception of matter – from mountainous rock tumults down to the sub-atomic quarks, gluons and (lucky?) charms. Apologies to Axil as this is far from his intent to understand the discreet mechanism of LENR. But his inquiry inspired this contemplation – and hey, that’s what makes thought FUN! Warm Regards!

          • Axil Axil

            Monopole physics does not conform to quantum mechanics: nether does the color force inside the nucleon. There is another QM called non associative QM that monopoles.

            Check out


            AN OVERVIEW

            This fellow have a few books out explaining a remarkable plasticity in human perception of matter.

            LeClair has a theory that holds that water crystals produced DNA and the DNA run on the rules established by monopole physics.

          • GreenWin

            There’s an old saying about bullsheitin’ a bullsheitter.” Matti Pitakanen’s 1148 pages of alien word salad is Exhibit A in the Universal Court case:
            “GreenWin vs Misanthropic ETs.” :>)

            I will personally arm wrestle Mary Yugo (benefiting a charity of my choice) if anyone in the ECW dimension can find a semblance of human meaning in the following Pitakanen gurgitation:

            “The mathematically ugly irreversible dissipative dynamics obtained by adding phenomenological dissipation terms to the reversible fundamental dynamical equations derivable from an action principle can be understood as a phenomenological description replacing in a well defined sense the series of reversible quantum histories with its envelope.”

            The fact that this micro-cephalic agglomeration of indigestible tripe is published on the Penn State University web site confirms evil Prof Michael Mann continues to hold all of Pennsylvania hostage in the decrepit remains of his vanishing hippopsothumous-campus.

            Aside from that… thanks for the link AA!

          • Pekka Janhunen

            What’s special about this sentence? I don’t understand Matti Pitkänen’s theory, but this particular sentence, if considered without context, is just normal physics jargon. “Dissipative” refers to second-order spatial derivatives describing diffusion. “Reversible” refers to time-reversibility, which is typical to microscopic description (typically a description where the second law of thermodynamics is an emergent rather than manifest property). “Derivable from an action principle” is a technicality, means that the equation (presumably some kind of equation of motion) can be derived by calculus of variation by varying some action functional. Usually equations of motion are derivable from an action principle. A “phenomenological description” means some kind of approximate, coarse-grained description which is less detailed than some underlying microphysical model. “Quantum histories” appear in Everett’s many-world interpretation and related interpretations of quantum mechanics. I am not sure what exactly “envelope” refers to here, but I think it’s some kind of “envelope function” (which probably represents the “classical” i.e. non-quantum physics version of “reality”) drawn by a large ensemble of quantum histories.

            Whether or not the sentence is true or meaningful in the context where it was taken from is another question.

          • GreenWin

            Thanks for your interpretation Pekka. It is indeed somewhat unfair to take this sentence out of context. And I do not doubt there is a kernel of value buried within this over-thought thesis – mostly for theoretical quantum “physicists” – itself a misnomer as the definition of ‘physics’ is a study of matter and energy – not temporal dislocation.

            How does an “envelope” refer to non-quantum reality if it is drawn by a large ensemble of quantum histories?

            Arcane knowledge is an area of great interest to me. I have no formal technical training; I am a student of the Fine Arts. The Arts are in my world, the foundation and parent of the lesser arts aka “sciences.” Arcane knowledge has for eons been sequestered, obfuscated, encrypted or encoded – I think with good reason. However, it is annoying to the pragmatic mind to slog through the tedium of decoding mountains of obfuscania. It is, IMO a rather primitive qualification gauntlet.

            However, if you can rewrite Pitkanen’s sentence to serve value and meaning to an average human being – I will happily arm wrestle Mr. Mary Yugo (George Hody) via world wide web to benefit a charity of my choosing. Further, anticipating your success, I now have reason to swim extra laps during my daily workout! Warm Regards.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Deciphered, this grammatically complex sentence becomes a tautology: a phenomenological description can be understood as a phenomenological description. Zero equals zero.

            In Donald Knuth’s pedagogical assembly language there was machine instruction SWYM corresponding to what is more normally denoted NOP, or no operation. “The SWYM command was included because machines occasionally need grease to keep in shape, just as human beings occasionally need to swim in order to maintain good muscle tone…”

          • GreenWin

            On that note… thx PJ.

          • Zephir

            /* I don’t understand Matti Pitkänen’s theory */

            Well, nobody actually does – the question is, if it’s just our problem, or the problem of Matti Pitkänen’s theory.

          • TomR

            Pekka, thank you for mentioning quantum histories and Everett’s many-world interpretation and related interpretations of quantum mechanics.

          • Zephir

            IMO Matti Pitkannens predicts anything specific, so he formulates his insights as generally as he can in similar way, like the people do during submission of patent applications. He’s lone savant crazy in similar way, like the Grigori Perelman.

          • Zephir

            IMO the explanation of cold fusion within “water crystal” is much simpler and based on analogy with sparking of pebbles shaken inside the closed vessel. When these pebbles will be small (like the grains of sand), then the energy of their mutual collisions remains also small, until the particles move with very high speed (which is just the case of hot fusion experiments).

            But at the moment, when we shake relatively large pebbles, then the sparks will be generated even under low energy (mild shaking). Why is it so? Because the colliding chunks of matter have larger mass and inertia. This situation happens inside the water molecules, which gets compressed with shock waves and the geometry of these shock waves also leads into hexagonal symmetry observed in LeClair experiments. This symmetry represents so-called Wigner crystal observed during high pressure conditions routinely within particle materials.


            That is to say, we have explained both cold fusion inside the water, both the existence of water crystal by itself simply with geometry of particle packing.

          • Zephir

            A Wigner crystal is the solid phase of electrons first predicted by Eugene Wigner in 1934. A gas of electrons (or any other mutually repulsing particles) in a uniform, inert, neutralizing background will crystallize and form a lattice if their density is less than a critical value. This is because the potential energy dominates the kinetic energy at low densities, so the detailed spatial arrangement of the electrons becomes important. To minimize the potential energy, the electrons form a b.c.c. lattice in 3D, a triangular lattice in 2D and an evenly spaced lattice in 1D. Most experimentally observed Wigner clusters exist due to the presence of the external confinement, i.e. external potential trap. As a consequence, deviations from the b.c.c or triangular lattice are observed. A crystalline state of the 2D electron gas can also be realized by applying a sufficiently strong magnetic field. However, it is still not clear whether it is the Wigner-crystallization that has led to observation of insulating behaviors in magnetotransport measurements on 2D electron systems, since other candidates are present, such as Anderson localization.

          • Zephir

            The fact that neutrons and radiation gets generated during LeClair experiments points to sonoluminiscence mechanism of cold fusion rather than cold fusion mechanism. It seems for me that both ways of fusion are connected via dimensionality of collisions, which is pure unidimensional (of low symmetry) at the case of lattice fusion or high-dimensional (highly symmetric) at the case of hot fusion inside the sparse plasma. The Tayleirkhan or LeClair fusion exhibits hexagonal or dodecahedral symmetry, so it does represent an intermediate step between pure cold and pure hot fusions. With respect to utilization / recuperation of energy of fusion products it’s indeed advantageous to keep the fusion collisions as low-dimensional as possible, so that the escaping neutrons get reabsorbed.

          • georgehants

            Morning GreenWin, when our thinking progresses beyond the steam engine, then investigating reality becomes a Wonderful magical experience that must entrance and excite any scientist that has the slightest conception of what the word Science means.
            I think something may be a little wrong with our science education that seems to turn out almost nothing but mechanized clones with imaginations comparable to a rock.
            I do not wish to insult a rock as we have no idea of it’s conscious awareness.
            I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking Albert Einstein

      • Zephir

        There is no logical connection to magnetic monopoles or metal hydrogen or Rydberg matter to LeClair experiments (which are driven with classical sonofusion in fact).

        • Axil Axil

          LeClair’s site states:

          “Mark has derived a general equation for cavitation erosion that is a 98% R^2 curve fit for ASTM-G32 cavitation erosion data for 22 different materials. The equation takes van der Waals repulsion into account during high speed impact of cavitation reentrant jets. The equation predicts that a thin layer exists at the point of cavitation reentrant jet impact with a substrate where van der Waals repulsion dominates. The pressure in this thin zone is in the range of a few hundred up to just over a thousand gigapascals depending on the strength of the material.”

          What can produce a force of over a thousand gigapascals and survive uneffected?

          • Zephir

            Of course the high pressure affects everything, but there is still no logical connection to magnetic monopoles or metal hydrogen or Rydberg matter to LeClair experiments (which are driven with classical sonofusion in fact).

            The LeClair fusion is actually classical sonofusion, after all even the methods used are similar to Taleyarkhan ones. No need to invent new stuffs. The magnetic monopoles, tachyons, metal hydrogen or Rydberg matter are all redundant stuffs here, which just blur the actual understanding of subject.

          • Axil Axil

            LeClair is producing transuranic elements out of water. That is equivalent to a supernova explosion, Explain how this can happen?

          • Zephir

            /* LeClair is producing transuranic elements out of water */

            I seriously doubt, that these elements originate just from the water. As you already write “reentrant jet impact with a substrate” in LeClair experiments. The cavitation jet is indeed made of water, but the substrate not.

          • Axil Axil

            He also ran experiments without a substrate

          • Zephir

            Could you submit a link, please? Was the transuranic elements formation observed in this case? You see, the scientist must be consequential in thinking, not just enthusiast.

            Whole decades of LENR dismissal were based just on enthusiastic belief of mainstream physicists in their own theories. You shouldn’t repeat the very same mistake just at the LENR forum. The new approach to physics should be based on critical thinking, not on repeating the old mistakes.

          • Axil Axil

            Google Mark LeClair. He has a number of 1.5 hours videos that are interesting besides his web site,

            Also see


          • Zephir

            I just want to see the link, which demonstrates the formation of transuranic elements within pure water and laser – not just some fuzzy video from the web. The burden of proof is up to you – otherwise your claim holds water too. IMO you just mixed and confused the insights from different experiments, because this is what you’re doing at this site from the very beginning.

          • Axil Axil

            Out of all the posts that I have seen you produces, not a one includes a reference. By your line of reasoning your claims are without support.

          • Zephir

            I don’t need any evidence for denying the claims without evidence.


          • Axil Axil
          • Zephir

            So you actually have no particular evidence, that LeClair demonstrated the formation of transuranium elements just from pure water? Well, OK – after then I’m not required to explain it.

    • Publius

      I have to agree, not every A.A. article needs to be published just because it is peppered with allegorical innuendo (aka mumbo jumbo) and tries to bridge it with LENR.

  • Axil Axil

    Science grows through explaining exceptions. For example, Newtonian physics explains most of the universe, but there are a few exceptions that it cannot explain: the orbit of Mercury and the bending of light through the influence of high mass is another. To explain these exceptions, the general theory of relativity is required. Einstein was judged to be a kook until Max Planck took him under his wing and sponsored his ideas. Not until then did general relativity gain any traction in the science world.

    LENR is another example of the exception to the rule. Quantum mechanics works well for most things but there are a few things that it cannot handle. For example, what goes on inside the proton and neutron is not subject to the rules of quantum mechanics, so a new force was invented called the color force that handles this exception. The color force is the source of the strong interaction, or that the strong interaction is like a residual color force which extends beyond the proton or neutron to bind them together in a nucleus. The other exception that goes along with the color force is the fractional charge that quarks have. There are also the strange cases that come up involving the fractional quantum hall effect where magnetism produces balls of fractional charge that really surprised physics.

    The color force is carried by gluons which makes it different from magnetism. But the quarks inside the protons are thought to be monopoles and they cannot be separated. But why is a quark different than a monopole which can be separated. This confinement is caused by superconductivity inside the proton or the neutron.

    If we could produce a monopole that was inside a superconductor, then we would have something special. We would have quarks. This is the exception that quantum mechanics cannot handle. The color force, quarks, and superconducting monopoles are covered by non-associative quantum mechanics.

    It just so happens that nano particles can produce a superconducting monopole. This is accomplished in Rydberg matter which has been proven by Holmlid to be superconducting and subject to the Meissner effect.

    The Rydberg matter that is produced in the LENR reaction is a carrier of the color force that keeps quark contained. This conjecture is proven true in the experiments of LeClair. The water particle is a water based Rydberg matter formed under the tremendous pressure and temperatures produced in the collapsing cavitation bubble. When this nanoparticle begins to eat through material no matter how hard, the particle is protected by destruction from nuclear level forces equal to that of a supernova by the quark based superconductive strengthen color force at the tip of the water crystal. The monopole shield is impenetrable and can withstand a supernova based explosion. When LeClair puts this extra force into the cavitation erosion equations, the equation becomes valid after a hundred years of failure.

    LeClair states:

    NanoSpire Cavitation Erosion Model Prediction of Fusion Thermodynamics

    Mark LeClair of NanoSpire has solved the one hundred year old problem of accurately predicting cavitation erosion for all materials, as a function of cavitation and material properties. Researchers including Lord Kelvin, Lord Rayleigh and many scientists since their day have been unable to solve this seemingly intractable problem. Previous attempts at deriving an accurate general equation have been off by a factor of up to 300X compared to data.

    Mark has derived a general equation for cavitation erosion that is a 98% R^2 curve fit for ASTM-G32 cavitation erosion data for 22 different materials. The equation takes van der Waals repulsion into account during high speed impact of cavitation reentrant jets. The equation predicts that a thin layer exists at the point of cavitation reentrant jet impact with a substrate where van der Waals repulsion dominates. The pressure in this thin zone is in the range of a few hundred up to just over a thousand gigapascals depending on the strength of the material.

    In cold fusion, we are dealing with a special exception to standard reality involving the color force, gluon force carriers, quark confinement, non-associative quantum mechanics produced by a special shape (topology) of a special nano/micro particle.

    See for the theory as follows:

    Vortices in Non-Abelian Gauge Field Theory


  • Axil Axil


    Carnegie’s Ivan Naumov and Russell Hemley discover hydrogen forms grapheme layers/clusters instead of metal under pressure.

    This is an experimental validation of the Rydberg matter structure of hydrogen.

    Instead of high pressures, quantum mechanics can produce this ring structure using a principle called Rydberg Blockade.

    Potassium provides a quantum mechanical template that directs hydrogen to form in rings just like potassium does…or lithium.

    Holmlid uses quantum mechanics rather than pressure to form liquid hydrogen(AKA rydberg hydrogen hatter).


    Mesoscopic Rydberg-blockaded ensembles in the superatom regime and beyond


  • Axil Axil


    Tuesday, December 16, 2014—New work from Carnegie’s Ivan Naumov and Russell Hemley delves into the chemistry underlying some surprising recent observations about hydrogen, and reveals remarkable parallels between hydrogen and graphene under extreme pressures. Their work is the cover story in the December issue of Accounts of Chemical Research.

    Hydrogen is the most-abundant element in the cosmos. With only a single electron per atom, it is deceptively simple. As a result, hydrogen has been a testing ground for theories of the chemical bond since the birth of quantum mechanics a century ago. Understanding the nature of chemical bonding in extreme environments is crucial for expanding our understanding of matter over the broad range of conditions found in the universe.

    Observing hydrogen’s behavior under very high pressures has been a great challenge for researchers. But recently teams have been able to observe that at pressures of 2-to-3.5 million times normal atmospheric pressure it transforms into an unexpected structure consisting of layered sheets, rather than a close-packed metal as had been predicted many years ago.

    These hydrogen sheets resemble the carbon compound graphene. Graphene’s layers are each constructed of a honeycomb structure made of six-atom carbon rings. This conventional carbon graphene, first synthesized about a decade ago, is very light, but incredibly strong, and conducts heat and electricity very efficiently. These properties promise revolutionary technology, including advanced optical electronics for screens, high-functioning photovoltaic cells, and enhanced batteries and other energy storage devices.

    The new work from Naumov and Hemley shows that the stability of the unusual hydrogen structure arises from the intrinsic stability of its hydrogen rings. These rings form because of so-called aromaticity, which is well understood in carbon-containing molecules such as benzene, as well as in graphene. Aromatic structures take on a ring-like shape that can be thought of as alternating single and double bonded carbons. But what actually happens is that the electrons that make up these theoretically alternating bonds become delocalized and float in a shared circle around the inside of the ring, increasing stability.

    Naumov and Hemley’s study also indicates that hydrogen initially becomes a dark poorly conducting metal like graphite instead of a conventional shiny metal and a good conductor, as was originally suggested in theoretical calculations going back to the 1930’s using early quantum mechanical models for solids.

    Though the discovery of this layered sheet character of dense hydrogen has come as a surprise to many, chemists 30 years ago–before the discovery of graphene–predicted the structure based on simple chemical considerations. Their work is validated and extended by the new findings.

    “Overall, our results indicate that chemical bonding occurs over a much broader range of conditions than people had previously considered. However, the structural effects of that chemical bonding under extreme conditions can be very different than that observed under the ordinary conditions that are familiar to us,” Hemley said.

  • Axil Axil

    The key to the Rossi effect is the generation of Rydberg hydrogen matter creation during the fuel preparation process.

    From the Piantelli patents:
    “……..impulsive trigger action consists of supplying an energy pulse”

    “…..trigger means (61 ,62,67) for creating an impulsive action (140) on said active core (18), said impulsively action (140) suitable for causing……”


    Rydberg Hydrogen Matter might be created using a shock wave during the fuel preperation phase.

    The intensity of the pressure applied to a material is proportional to the instantaneous power applied to the surface of the material. The faster that a material is shocked, the larger the pressure wave that will be created. To get great pressure to be generated, a intensence amount of energy must be applied in the shortest amount of time to the smallest possible area.

    Rossi does not do this in this reactor, but he does it in his fuel preparation process. Once Rydberg matter is formed, it will stay active for a long time so a fuel preparation process may create LENR active hydrogen that has a long shelf life.

    Once the wafer is coated with lithium, nickel, and hydride, Rossi might treat the surface with a high energy laser, spark, proton or electron beam to produce the required shock pressure needed to convert hydrogen into rydberg matter.

    Additives that might aid in the Rydberg matter preparation process are graphite, lithium, and/or potassium.

    • pangoo

      What about shockwaves from nanocrack formation in the nickel?

      • Axil Axil

        At the end of the day when all is said and done, there will be discovery of countless ways in which the LENR reaction can be induced. Most will be limited in their power production potential.

        Nanocrack formation will be one of the low power production types of LENR reactions discovered.

        Currently, to get the world out of the carbon trap that it has found itself in and to show science that LENR exists and is observable, the discovery of the high powered producing causes of LENR power production are a top priority.

  • GreenWin

    Good question mike. Perhaps the mind can instruct the heart. Take the classic Dickens character, Ebenezer Scrooge. It was the vision of his past, present, and future that melted the fear freezing his heart.

  • GreenWin

    It could also be entirely beneath you Rog.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Robitaille’s theory has been mentioned some time ago on this blog. At least, his idea appears interesting (independently of its correctness, about which I am not qualified to judge).

    But why should we need LENR in order to explain the (near) incompressibility of liquids?

    • Axil Axil

      Power production looks to be just a small part of the LENR story. It seems possible to me that most of the roadblocks that face science today depend on understanding the LENR reaction in detail. Incompressibility is one of these special traits of LENR.

      But there are many more. The Rossi reactor is just a means to an end. This device will force science to face things that it cannot bear to face. IMHO, the knowledge that LENR will eventually provide will advance humankind from the depths of our primitive state to the very threshold of the gods.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Sorry, but incompressibility of liquids can be explained without any reference to LENR. Moreover, the involvement of reactions inside the liquid would make things more complicated than they most likely are. Pouring all available ingredients into the pan does not necessarily improve the quality of the meal;-)

        • Axil Axil

          Sorry, I conceived that statement in the context of a quantum liquid compound composed of a repeated graphite like plane structure.

    • Axil Axil

      It is currently assumed that hot fusion occurs inside the sun and stars. but could cold fusion power the nuclear reactions at the center on the sun? Could liquid hydrogen be so impervious to change that it defeats the hot fusion process?

      If LeClair’s water crystal can produce supernova level nuclear reactions: the transmutation of transuranic elements without being affected in any way, how could this type of hydrogen produce hot fusion?

  • Da Phys

    Axil, Hydrides already present an ordered crystal lattice with hydrogen occupying an octahedral site. In particular nickel hydride has the same Bravais lattice as nickel and, as Wigner pointed out in his seminal article, “Any lattice in which the hydrogen atoms would be translationally identical (Bravais lattice) would have metallic properties”. Therefore, no need to invoke monopole forces, Rydberg hydrogen matter, condensation etc.
    Maybe more importantly, metallic hydrides share many physical properties with Rydberg hydrogen matter, such as interatomic distances vary greatly with excitations, a right environment for bosonic quasi-particles such as optical phonons, etc. Again, I don’t see what the concepts of Rydberg matter and condensation would give more (in order to make LENR true) than the ordered structure of nickel hydride already has.

    • Zephir

      IMO the cold fusion actually utilizes the only one basic principle: the synchronized collisions of multiple atoms along single line at the same moment (aka Astroblaster effect). All other artifacts of cold fusion (like the hypothetical Rydberg matter, monopoles, tachyons, whatever…) are byproduct of this underlying mechanism in the same way, like the cold fusion itself.

      The scientists shouldn’t invent problems, but the solutions of problems.

      • Da Phys

        “the synchronized collisions of multiple atoms along single line at the same moment”
        Agreed. Collective resonance phenomena in a lattice of very mobile H or D atoms can do exactly that. I did my PhD on emergent collective phenomena and we are just starting to see how powerful they can be.

        • Axil Axil

          What happens in a nuclear reaction that occurs within an Bose condensate?

    • Axil Axil

      The distinction between Hydrides and Rydberg matter is one of power more than of its effects. There are many LENR systems that can produce just a few milliwatts of excess power if at all but still show transmutation effects. Such systems are discounted as supporting evidence for the LENR reaction. The life work of Ken Shoulders comes to mind and the poor showing of the Pd/D systems.

      IMHO, the way to get up to Rossi levels of power production is to understand the special mechanisms that make LENR useful. As explained by Piantelli, most nanoparticles are able to produce LENR results, but there seems to be a special type of nano/micro particle that takes the LENR reaction to the next level.

      That particle type is configured in a graphite plate based string as identified by Holmlid and the other chemists working on metallic hydrogen. Just like DNA gives life here on earth through its special topology, so does the graphite based nano/micro wire topologies that exist in nature give useful power production levels to LENR.

      The key to producing a useful LENR reactor is centered on forming the special shaped particles that amplify the LENR effect. Knowing the nature of these particles enables LENR engineering of a powerful reactor.

  • georgehants

    As I occasionally do, just thank everybody on page for demonstrating genuine Science in action.
    No fools shouting, I am qualified therefore my opinion is correct, but scientific discussion where all can join in no matter their perceived abilities without abuse etc.
    This Website is setting a precedent that needs to be followed by every area of science, open, public, discussion, where a student or Professor can communicate on equal terms and only their intellectual input is judged fairly by all.
    A dream come True for those of us that care only for TRUTH and have no interest in our corrupt establishment mind destroying rules, laws, dictates, Dogma, etc. etc. etc.

    • Billy Jackson

      open discussion should always be encouraged. just because someone has a differing opinion or does not see things from your view point.. or even lack of higher education does not invalidate their voices in the on going conversation. It has been one of the greatest things i have enjoyed about this forum. We may share our view points, debate and even fundamentally disagree on aspects.. but in the end.. respect is maintained and we move on to the next point of discussion enriched by the knowledge we gain or insights we apply.

      • georgehants

        Billy could not agree more, just blindly ignoring Evidence is one of the greatest crimes in this World.
        Regarding Cold Fusion and all other subjects I do not think it is a matter of seeing it corruptly denied and debunked and simply moving on to the next subject or this Website would have ended years ago.
        One can certainly disagree on any “opinions” one cannot disagree on Facts, only if one begins to try and interpret them Facts beyond their obvious value or introduce bias is it a crime.
        Thankfully there are many good minds on these pages who’s only mission is to find the Truth of Cold Fusion regardless of the corruption of science, the media, establishment, politicians and not just back away when 95% of scientists tell them they are talking rubbish in spite of the Evidence.

  • Zephir

    IMO it’s a nonsense – search for “Wigner crystal” in this thread.

  • Zephir

    This is indeed win-win attitude. If someone will ever find a sense in his calculations before your death, you’ll feel vindicated. If not, you’ll never recognize, that you actually believed in nonsense. The hope dies at the very end and it costs anything.

  • Axil Axil

    Very interesting and it supports the idea the science is off the rails.