Rossi Gives Some Leonardo Corporation Updates (Update: Leonardo 'Property of a US Trust')

Andrea Rossi has been talking quite a bit about his plans for the E-Cat lately, and he often mentions it in connection with the plans of Leonardo Corporation (and barely ever mentions Industrial Heat now). Here are some recent statements:

1. Website

January 6th, 2016 at 8:08 PM

Please go to
It is the new official website of Leonardo Corporation for the E-Cat.
It has been renewed substantially during the last 3 days, to prepare the new phase of Leonardo Corporation.
Leonardo Corporation will go through a process of strong development to prepare the huge work that will have to be done after the end of the tests on course. If the results will be positive, we will have a huge work to do. If they will be negative, we will have an even more huge work to do.
I think our website has been well improved. Suggestions are welcome.
Warm Regards,

2. Scientific Committee Formed

Q: About the E-Cat X and its application to a jet engine: are you working on it in collaboration with that engineer connected with an aerospace industry you mentioned recently?

Andrea Rossi

Yes. He accepted now to be part of the scientific commettee I am setting up for the future R&D of Leonardo Corporation.
Warm Regards,

3. Possible Licensing of E-Cat

Q: Your strategy will be only to produce E-Cats as final products, ready to go on the shelves, or also to produce E-Cats conceived as modules for heat generation destined to be used from other manufacturers to make any other product independently from you?

Andrea Rossi

Good question.
I thnk Leonardo Corporation will consider also the possibility you have indicated.
Warm Regards,

I followed up on this comment by asking Rossi if this signaled that Leonardo was now open to licensing E-Cat technology. He responded: “To be considered in specific situations.”

This last comment is a particularly intriguing one to me, as it opens the door for Leonardo to start providing E-Cat technology for other companies to build products around. If the E-Cat is a truly revolutionary technology (especially now with the E-Cat X producing electricity directly), I would expect there to be a great deal of interest from companies around the world who see the great potential for new and improved products based on Rossi’s technology.

If Rossi hopes for a massive diffusion of E-Cat-based product, it would very difficult for Leonardo Corporation, as a brand new company, to do all the design, engineering, manufacturing, and distribution of new products using the E-Cat, especially in highly specialized fields such as aerospace where big companies have so much expertise and experience already in place.

So where does all this planning for Leonardo Corporation leave the Industrial Heat connection? Perhaps they are a manufacturing or distribution licensee only, and not involved in product development. It would be interesting to learn more on that front, but it seems that Rossi is now planning to have Leonardo Corporation lead out in moving the E-Cat into the marketplace.

UPDATE: Someone on the Journal of Nuclear Physics asked about the status of Leonardo Corp:

January 10th, 2016 at 4:51 PM
Dear Andrea,
can you better clarify (if possible) who own E-Cat and who the IP, you, Leonardo Corp. , IH, Darden, some other.

Andrea Rossi
January 10th, 2016 at 5:39 PM
The Intellectual Property of the E-Cat is property of Leonardo Corporation.
Leonardo Corporation is property of a US Trust.
Warm Regards

Back in 2012 Rossi stated that Leonardo Corp. had become the property of an ‘investors trust’, so I guess that is still the case. Of course this begs the question: who are the investors behind the trust?

  • Jonnyb

    Has anyone asked him directly if Industrial heat and Leonardo Corp are still tied together, and if so, what is the nature of collaboration now?

    • f sedei

      From previous comments,it seems Leonardo Corp would handle the European market place, only. It makes sense to me not to place all the market place “eggs” in the same basket. Caution has always been a part of Rossi’s strategy.

    • Omega Z

      When asked Directly, Rossi always responds that nothing has changed.
      That said, In the past Rossi has called it a partnership.
      All appearances is that this is a Consortium of multiple entities(Investors).

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Yes, no reply

    • Andreas Moraitis

      He just characterised IH as their (should mean Leonardo Corp’s) „licensee“:

      Andrea Rossi
      January 11th, 2016 at 8:47 AM
      Thank you for your very kind words and important attention.
      We pass it on to our Licensee for Canada ( Industrial Heat ).
      Warm Regards,

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’m just thinking about how Rossi could make the reactors
    like Intel makes microprocessors for other companies to use.

    Have this logo on a jet engine.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Clovis Ray, I am too uninformed to understand the significance of a US Trust. Can you please enlighten me?

    • passerby

      Sounds like he thinks it is a “trust company” instead of a regular trust which anyone can set up. We have no way of knowing either way.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I tried researching it, the best I could come up with is there is big money behind it. That is probably an awfully bad evaluation of what he means.

  • GreenWin

    If one expects a closely held corporation to generate $$Bs income…

    “One of several different types of charitable trusts, including
    Charitable Lead trusts and Charitable Remainder Trusts, established to
    benefit a particular charity or the public. Typically charitable trusts
    are established as part of an estate plan to lower or avoid imposition
    of Federal (and some states’) estate and gift taxes and/or to save
    capital gains tax. It can be a win win situation since the donor is able
    to achieve a tax reduction while still providing for a very worthwhile
    charity that provides a great service to the public. When this is done
    during life an income tax deduction is available then the property is
    out of the estate for estate tax purposes or will generate a deduction
    to remove it.”

  • ecatworld

    On the JONP: Q: Which is exactly your position inside Leonardo Corporation?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 11th, 2016 at 8:49 AM

    In Leonardo Corporation I am the CEO (Chief Executive Officer). So far.
    Warm Regards,

    Q: Can you foresee up to when you will remain the CEO of Leonardo Corporation ?

    Andrea Rossi
    January 11th, 2016 at 3:32 PM

    Until the ownership will deem it opportune.
    Warm Regards,

  • LilyLover

    The way I read this is –
    Darden wanted toabsorb all E-Cats. If not for personal profits, for his “name”. He and his team of lawyers came up with a harsh contract so as to “justify” this venture to risk-averse Cherokee. They simply did not “just trust Rossi”. So, dear doctor complied and outmanoeuvred Darden’s lawyers. Tit for Tat. He managed to own the electric E-Cat. Previously seen as pipe-dream by Cherokee/Darden, the realization that the electric E-Cat has become reality, has left them both burnt-hearted.
    Had they simply made a golf-course verbal deal with Dr. Rossi and offered him unqualified support, today, the dear doctor would have happily allowed them to take reign over the E-Cat X.
    The moment Cherokee presented him a “metrics based” iron clad contract, Dr. Rossi said in his mind, “As you sow, so shall you reap.” So, after his fulfilment of the contract after the long test, dear doctor has no more moral obligation to be associated with IH.
    Just as they were “looking after their interest”, Dr. Rossi has achieved the freedom to look after himself, nay, humanity and his E-Cat X.

    Note to investors: There is a time and place to follow standard contracts, and then there is a time and place to stop doubting Dr. Rossi’s claims.

    Doubting dear Doctor was the fall of IH. Legally, they’ll still get what was promised and could perhaps make short term profits. The problem they have is, the success of long-term test validates Rossi and foreshadows any IH-profit ventures as the credibility awarded to Rossi will fetch him the best and mightiest backers for the E-Cat X.

    This is not only a case of lost business opportunity for IH, but also a signal to all businesses that lawyering-the-hell-out-of good scientists doesn’t pay in the long run.

    Trust deficit exhibited by the IH, is in fact biting IH back.

    And all those who think dear doctor is fraud, you ought to salute him for conning one of the the most astute teams of businessmen and lawyers of the World. Agree?

    • Brokeeper

      I think you nailed this LL. Perhaps is why AR has not acknowledged IH/Tom Darden lately. He has learned how wolves in sheep clothing operate from his tumultuous past and become very aware of any subtle agendas embedded in paper handshakes. What better way to put in Trust, as name implies, to someone close to you like your loving spouse and confidant, as “the ownership, (who) will deem it opportune” to step down from CEO.

      • ecatworld

        Today Rossi has referred twice to Industrial Heat, both in terms of them being a licensee — for Canada and the USA. I think the Licensor/Licensee relationship between Leonardo and IH is intact.

      • Brokeeper

        My point was not to demonize Tom Darden, just the contrary; I admire him for his character and leadership as this planets steward. It’s just those representing him with protectionist policies that may bring caution to the embattled wary.
        It appears to me the E-Cat is in good hands with H/Cherokee/Tom Darden, but seeing greater potential with the E-Cat X may inspire another agenda contrary to
        Andrea Rossi’s plans for all concerned. All is good.

    • GreenWin

      Hi Lilly, and Happy New Year. You make a very good argument. However, it might not be as contentious as some think. An “exclusive license” to certain IP can be interpreted as an acquisition – but that’s not the fact. A license (which IH appears to have) transfers exclusive rights to the licensee while preserving the underlying patents and trade secrets (the empirical IP) to the licensor – Dottore/Leonardo.

      This is a good thing for inventors (who are artists) as it frees them to research and develop new, improved variations on their IP – since they retain ownership. While I would like to think Tom Darden is not out to “own” Dottore Rossi – the Doc has taken the smart (and typical) position of always retaining ownership to underlying IP.

      We see this in copyright law where the author of a bestselling novel licenses certain, specific rights to a media company to produce a film. Typically the media company tries to obtain rights to “derivative works” – an attempt to own the author’s future ideas. Good lawyers refuse to assign derivative rights – unless they have little leverage. What they MAY do is write an “option” for the licensee to obtain derivative rights in a future negotiation. This may be the structure of the Leonardo – Industrial Heat agreement.

      Regardless, we should not see IH/Darden and the Cherokee investors as an adversary. They are the visionaries who risked investment in Rossi when 99.9% business community wouldn’t touch him. Tom Darden and his silent investors are to be lauded for their courage and faith in a highly controversial technology and its inventor. Let’s not lose sight of that fact. LENR needs friends with vision for a better world. The Darden/Cherokee track record confirms this – for me.

      • LilyLover

        “Tom Darden and his silent investors are to be lauded for their courage and faith…”
        That I do GreenWin! What I’m complaining about is that the Cherokee took a 75% leap of faith instead of 100% leap of faith.

        I’d still have complained if they had taken 99% leap of faith with 1% distrust and hence paper contract.

        My complaining is not so much about Cherokee, but about Cherokee being influenced by the Wharton MBAs and Harvard Lawyers for insisting upon that “paper-contract”.
        Even if at 1%-level, that written contract represents distrust – a crack that grows to burst the dam or a match-stick that burns down Union-carbide.

        Had Cherokee taken the step with 100% faith and assumed that investment as a sunk cost, then, with freedom, doctor Andrea would have allowed them to be a bigger part of the history of E-Cat X.

        That 1% crack in the free-willed friendship is always introduced by the “contract” language. This eventually becomes like a friendship – wherein Francisco Scaramanga opens the champagne cork with his golden gun as a welcome gesture.

        • GreenWin

          I’m hearing and (feelin) you Lilly. However, as you already know, judgment, be it of high or low people, (i.e. the homeless, or Wharton MBAs) does not serve us well. The fact Darden (an Ivy League JD) and company are the only people to step up and invest in Rossi when consensus screamed “fraud, felon, fake” is instructive.

          You and I are likely the personality type that goes 100% or nuthin. But we must respect the less adventurous and more pragmatic of our comrades. Tom D represents a couple B$ of hard working peoples’ money. The fact he stepped up and took this risk is courageous. Further, that it was an “ivory tower” guy who did so — is important. IF we can deprogram our best and brightest from the “life is combat” pedagogy… we will evolve faster. IMO – 🙂

    • LarryJ

      Pure conjecture with your only evidence being your lack of evidence. IH are Rossi’s licensees in North America which we know and possibly China which is conjecture too but seems likely. I would conjecture that IH are licensees for all of Leonardo’s products in the regions they serve. Seems pretty simple and I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

      • So, if on March 1st, 2016, the year long E-Cat test is revealed as robustly positive by the third party testing agency, the factory owner, and by Rossi, will that news have an affect on oil prices? Oil is rumored to be headed down to $10 a barrel. Will the E-Cat news be one more straw on the camel’s back? Place your bets here.