Open Power Association Files Patent for 'Direct Conversion of Nuclear Energy into Electricity'

Thanks to David Nygren of the LENR Forum for posting about a new patent application which has been filed by the Open Power Association in Italy for an apparatus “for direct conversion of nuclear energy into electricity and
cogeneration of thermal energy from general LENRs, in particular from a new kind.”

Ugo Abundo of the Open Power Association has published this document in English which summarizes the claims of the application and provides some illustrations: http://www.hydrobetatron.org/files/Report-020ENG_Pubb.pdf Here’s an excerpt:

The major items of the claims are:
– an activation of the fuel mixture by an adjustable neutron gun;

– a cycle of exothermic reactions involving Li-Be-H to promote secondary
neutron emission, enhancing reaction rate under magnetic field control, to
provide α and β rays emission;

– a separation of charged particles by a three electrode capacitor, under an
adjustable electric potential, and gas pressure control; then, a system for
extracting electric current is available from well-known technology;

– a system for removing the generated thermal energy is provided;

– a system for capturing unused neutrons (previously moderated), by a boron
layer, with removal of secondary thermal energy is also provided;

– a system for preventing any emission of radiation in the external environment
is finally provided.

Ugo Abundo states that free licenses will be available to selected partners, while some royalties ‘will guarantee scientific updating.’

The full text of the application, mainly in Italian is available here: http://www.hydrobetatron.org/files/23_01_2016_Brevetto_2016_Pubb.pdf

David Nygren says this thread on the LENR Forum can be used to submit questions to Ugo Abundo: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2689-New-Patent-Application-Open-Power/#post12399

  • Skip

    Hi Frank;

    Check the link for “The full text of the application, mainly in Italian is available here:”

    • peacelovewoodstock

      Here is the correct link for the application text:

      http://www.hydrobetatron.org/files/23_01_2016_Brevetto_2016_Pubb.pdf

      Note that while this application is mostly in Italian, the last five pages (“Claims”) are in English.

      Also note that the Italian government patent registry (at http://www.uibm.gov.it/uibm/dati/Codice.aspx) does not return any documents when searched against the application number shown on the PDF (‘102016000004163’). I don’t know if that means anything, who knows how long it takes before a submitted application is available on the Italian government system.

  • georgehants

    Will be Wonderful if this is a different method to Mr.Rossi (IH), that completely bypasses the thousands of patents they are trying to acquire to stop the free use of the technology.
    They seem like those people that tried to patent sections of the genome etc. that thankfully was stopped.
    Once again we wait for some indisputable practical proof of words.
    Good luck to them and all others that can get around life destroying patents.

    • Leonard Weinstein

      You probably also want free music and video downloads without any payment to those that produce it. Also free redistribution of money and resources. You clearly do not understand the motive for people and companies to make the large investment in time and money to produce new things. Nobody prevented others from developing LENR earlier, so why wait until a large effort is made and then say steal it!

      • georgehants

        Leonard, understand your capitalistic view and sympathise with it’s outdated doctrine.
        All people who achieve in any area should be well rewarded to a sensible degree.
        Times are no longer as they where and we have indisputably become an uncaring Oligarchy, if you consider that best for everyone then fine, I just put up proof that things would be better with change.
        Best
        ———
        Richest 62 people as wealthy as half of world’s population, says Oxfam
        http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires-wealthy-half-world-population-combined

        • MikeP

          You’re ignoring that government / oligarch partnerships are behind much of it … created by people who pretend to care and speak as you do … I hope that advances like LENR allow people to truly be free …

        • reader22b

          $1.76T in the hands of just 62 people. Sounds bad, eh. Ok, let’s take all their money away and give it to the 3.5 billion people breeding away in poverty. Woohoo $500 each, then back where we started…

          To me, this little bit of math shows that letting some people get rich is a better way to go so they can accomplish big things for everyone.

          • Frechette

            I have no problem with people getting rich as long as they pay their fair share of taxes. Unfortunately the super rich never get enough so they lobby Congress to provide them with loop holes in the tax code.

            Result is Congress gets bought off and when there isn’t enough money in the treasury they go after the little guy.

          • LarryJ

            There is an argument to be made that since shareholders pay taxes on capital gains and dividends that taxing corporations is double taxation and is not beneficial to an economy. Many ultra wealthy individuals probably have most of their wealth in unrealized gains on their holdings but do pay fair taxes on their income. Speaking generally of course as country specific loopholes can distort that picture.

          • Frechette

            I’m familiar with this argument and also that US Corporations have the highest tax rates in the world. In actual fact many multinationals however pay no US federal taxes at all if they don’t repatriate their profits gained over seas. The tax rates may be higher but the loop holes are even bigger.

            The US also is one of the few countries that requires individual citizens who reside out of country to pay Federal taxes on income earned working overseas.

            What’s good for the goose should also be good for the gander in my humble opinion.

          • LarryJ

            Google, Facebook etc are good examples of how we all can benefit from a concentration of capital. Like everything in life, concentration of capital is a double edged sword. It solves some problems and creates others.

          • bachcole

            I agree, mostly. I don’t give a rat’s rear-end how rich someone else is. Congratulations to them. I do, however, care if they use their monetary power to influence political decisions in the direction of their further financial aggrandizement, which they often do.

        • clovis ray

          Boy, you could not be any more wrong, it’s not outdated capitalist,
          Their the the very thing that gives people a chance to move up, the ladder, what would you put in it ‘s place, all others forms of governing have been tried and failed , conservationism, is a huge failure, just look at the bush administration, huge failure,it was their spend craziness that landed us in this mess .we capitalist have the strongest economy in the world, we do more for more people,than any other country in the world, look at your buddy’s the Russians, their economy is in the crapper, go join them, and good.

          • Frechette

            I have no problem with capitalism but I do have a problem with crony capitalism as it is practiced in the West.
            I also have a problem with banks that believe profits should be privatized but losses socialized.

            Bankers feel they are entitled but folks that have paid their FICA taxes for social security for 40 years or more on the job are considered to be leeches when they retire and expect a SS check each month.

          • clovis ray

            Hi, Frenchette,
            You call them crony capitalist, i call them, thief’s and scammers, the problem these days is we let the wrong people get by with braking the laws of this country, or bending them to fit their own ends, we the real Americans will prevail, we have our trouble like anyone else, thing is we work it out and move on, and become the better for it.

          • Warthog

            Indeed. And this is one of the major functions of any government, to assure honest competition. “Crony capitalism” is the exact antithesis of honest competition, using the power of the state to suppress competition.

        • Leonard Weinstein

          georgehants, you seem to not observe that every government with a socialist economy has failed. China nominally has a communist government and socialist economy, and was failing big, so converted to a capitalist economy (the government itself does not matter, only the type economy). Now it has become very successful. Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, Greece, etc. all tried socialism. Venezuela did well as long as the large oil reserve was priced high, but collapsed economically when oil came down (a large natural resource is not a sustainable economy). There is no example of a long term socialist economy that has a success without extreme natural resources, and they all fail in the long term.

          • LarryJ

            I think you might be confusing socialism with totalitarianism. There are a substantial number of democratic socialist countries with capitalist economies. The Scandinavian countries and a large part of Europe come to mind. I would also regard my own country Canada as a democratic socialist country with cradle to grave social support which the largest part of the population are quite happy with and support politically despite the great cost and inevitable inefficiencies. In fact socialist countries outnumber purely capitalistic countries by far. The US is the only one I can think of and in various studies they are never considered #1 as a country where people worldwide would choose to live. In fact of all the places I have visited I consider the US the most free and the most dangerous.

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

            It is not the system: the failure lies in us, human beings, interpreting and implementing whatever dream would or could be.
            It is not a question of capitalism or socialism, we live in this new era: anthropocene. It is a matter of recognizing this economic change, where upstart businesses lend a glimpse of how pervasive the new sharing economy is likely to become.
            In this new era, we can either be complacent in our uninterested knowledge of the doom, or death, of millions of fellow human beings or ecosystems; or, we can begin to consider that each being has the same right to breathe the planet’s air, the same right – if at all possible – to better than unfair chance for survival.
            Without simple, honest respect for life, any communist (failed), socialist (failing), or capitalistic (potentially suicidal) stance seems to be useless in the face of our changing natural world.

          • we want LENR Fusione Fredda
          • bachcole

            Canadian? That answers a lot of questions, like why you are so reasonable and easy to get along with. (:->)

      • bachcole

        I want the government to give everyone $1,000,000. But then everyone would rush out and buy Escalades. But all of the Escalade workers would think that they are rich and would quit their jobs. So when the dealers ran out of Escalades there would be no more to order. The factory would start charging the deals $900,000 per Escalade, so the dealers would start selling them for $1,000,000 apiece.

        Working with greed is better than ranting and raving that it should not exist.

        • Omega Z

          I like your thinking, but i take it one step farther.

          The dealer has his own million$, He wont be there to sell them cars. He’s on permanent vacation in the Bahamas along with all those who produce our food. It’s a long swim as Airline employees also didn’t show up for work.

          Those who “stole” the Escalades are all waiting at the gas pump wonder why there is no gas. 🙂

          There is a guy laying in a hospital bed pressing his service button wondering after 3 days if that nurse will ever show up.
          Oh Wait. i guess that’s normal. 🙁

          • LarryJ

            You are probably right. Thank goodness we will have robots to step in. It’s hard to believe people worry about robots stealing jobs.

          • Omega Z

            With the changing demographics in the world, we will need robots in order to assure everyone is taken care of. Dependent on who’s number you go by, 3 of 4 people will be to young, to old or to disabled to fend for themselves.

          • bachcole

            It is much better to work with human nature than to sit around complaining that it isn’t better. And if one aspires to make human nature better, a very noble aspiration, said aspirant has one and only one option, and that is to work on their own character/nature. Working on other people’s characters/natures is called nagging and/or tyranny.

          • clovis ray

            Old Persian proverb
            He who knows not,and knows not that he know not is a fool, shum him.
            he who knows not and knows that he knows not,
            Is a child, teach him.
            he who knows,and knows not that he knows, is asleep, wake him.
            he who knows and knows is wise,follow him.

            I might add, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32 ), along with my favorite, if you add a half truth + a half lie it = a LIE, if your being lied to and know it, how long are you going to except it.

          • Warthog

            LOL….I have always loved your Persian proverb but could never recall the whole thing….only the gist.

          • Jarea

            I think that the motivation to do the things good are coming from the fear that not doing so you will loose something.
            In capitalism, the motivation is not to loose your salary or money to buy nice stuff and survive. In an economy of abundance you have to change the motivation that moves and motivates you .e.g. to have fear from your boss and loose your salary, if you dont do things right. :). Notice that, it is not the money who keeps things going or motivates you directly. The money is just the exchange vehicle between what you need to do and what you want to have. Disadvantages, of money is that price is volatile and can be tricked (inflation) by the ones who have the print machines. Advantage is that is portable and direct to use.
            I say that money will still be around because although many things will be cheap or free we will wish real state things that will not be needed for survival, but for luxury reasons. However, bitcoin is the solution to the tricks we see with the money today. Bitcoin can remove that volatile feature of the current money.

            I guess in the future we all we have a base salary or a global salary based on bitcoins which can finish the poverty and hunger. The persons that wants to to have more luxury things and accumulate or have more power or control can still go and try to create more real state things, like new medicines, new technologies, that provides more money.
            I guess that the human nature always wants more and as seen with capitalist the people will wish new luxury things and they will be motivated to work anyway in an abundance society. This can be seen in modern societies, where it is possible to not work and the people still opt for doing it to have extra money. The question is that we can allow us to do this massively. Maybe soon with the advent of robots replacing humans jobs we will not have to choose.

            Another contra-intuitive consequence of this global salary is that having the global salary will help to reduce overpopulation. You have to understand that the reasons to have more kids in developing countries is not because they can or the have access to resources. Just the opposite, they had more childs because that was the only option to survive. If you get old in an unstructured society where survival is not guarantee your best rent insurance is your family. Your kids!. With high child mortality, is not enough to have two it is needed to have more so that you ensure that they will survive to take care of the farm and care about you.
            Last word, it is also obvious that in terms of energy required to produce something, songs and films are receiving more than enough for the effort. I think we cannot compare products that are easily reproduced and “massified” with real state products that cannot be cloned. We are talking here about the influence of the information technology where the prices are reduced each year.
            In my opinion, services is what need to be cashed, flat rate services.
            Of course, the same logic will follow for this premise about the global salary and prices. There will be a flat free rate for all and a real state flat rate that cost money. The difference between one an the other will be shifted with the time because, as always happens, information technology will offer new capabilities.

            In fact i think the basic services and food needed for living (without having health problems) should be protected from the money system because when they are in the money system people will always try to control them and made them scarce so that the price will increase. I respect people who want control but the control must be constrained to their own inventions and not the nature.
            I see that we can do those things with real state things and luxury/optional items.

          • Omega Z

            I agree, money is but an exchange medium. Much better then the barter system. Inflation is far more complex then printing or not printing money. The U.S. pumped over 6 trillion$ into the world economy by itself. Where is the inflation.

            Inflation is all about the balance of supply and demand. It does not need any outside influence to take place. That said, Printing money & applying it to promote demand in certain segments of the economy can effect inflation by increaseing demand beyond the ability to supply.

            Economic centers such as New York city can effect inflation. Having limited space for housing, real estate(Housing) is very expensive and rising(demand can never be met) thus requiring higher wages. This makes nearly everything in New York cost more. This has an inflationary ripple effect that can spread around the world.

            “bitcoin is the solution to the tricks etc…”
            You’ve been mislead. The value of bitcoin fluctuates. It is more like a commodity & is more volatile then any currency. I recall a couple years ago it lost 50% of it’s value in a couple days. That’s a 50% loss for any who were in possession of it.

            Bitcoin was something a few people made a fortune off of in the beginning by exchanging it for real curency. In reality, it is a pyramid scheme still in the process of playing out. It’s longevity is only due to it’s limited quantity, but at some point it will still bottom out. It also has no physical backing. All losses are borne by who hold them.

            “I guess in the future we all have a base salary or a global salary based on bitcoins which can finish the poverty and hunger.”

            Bitcoins or any other currency will not eliminate hunger. Only increased food production can eliminate hunger.

            Your basic needs-
            You ask for a minimum of 4 fish to feed your family tonight. OK, But you best go catch 4 fish. If you don’t catch 4 fish, I can not give them. I can not provide for your basic needs unless you provide the basic product.

            Or are you suggesting I take/steal them from someone else?
            The way that works is those that I take from without compensation will merely produce far less. Thus everyone lives in poverty.

            Due to modern society, people have become disconnected to their reality. There are no guarantees. The best society can “try” to do is provide the circumstances for people to provide for themselves.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          The flaw in this logic is that the government cannot give you money WITHOUT FIRST taking away that wealth from someone else!

          That wealth one has is the result of the person’s productive capacity. No one is going to come to your house, clean your floors, clean up your stinky bathroom and then cook you dinner without receiving compensation.

          The issue thus becomes not the government giving you money, but in fact forcibly TAKING that value and resources from someone to give to you.

          So the government cannot give you anything unless they take some resources and value away from someone else. As a society has less and less people paying taxes, then you wind up with a case like Greece. So government workers, policeman, doctors etc. don’t pay taxes, but are in fact CONSUMERS of tax dollars. When you have too many consuming tax dollars and NOT paying taxes, you wind up with a very rotten siltation.

          So in most countries, say a teacher, or doctor or policeman don’t pay taxes (they file taxes at the end of the year, but they are not paying into the tax system). If such people were paying taxes, then the MORE of such people hired by the government would create more taxes for the government to spend then such people cost the government.

          I mean, the government could hire everyone into the military, but the budget deficits would soar and cost the government MORE than each person they hire pays in taxes. Now who will you have actally paying into the tax system now?
          Greece reached the point in which few people were willing to work in the private sector because they had to work 14 hours a day to make ends meet. Why not just work for the government, and laugh at all those silly people actually paying into
          the tax system (and slaving away to create wealth in society).

          The problem of course is you eventually run out of those people actually paying into the tax system. You can “easy” define such tax payers as:

          If more of such people exist in society, then the government will have MORE money to spend at the end of the year as opposed to less money.

          Governments can ONLY spend money and resources they FORCIBLY take away from people and the ONLY tax paying people are those that pay more tax dollars then what they receive from the government are such people actually paying taxes.

          So teachers, police, military, and in most counties even Doctors etc. are NET tax consumers. Each one of these kind of people cost the government MORE in tax dollars that such people pay to the government.

          So we must not confuse the “act” of filing taxes as opposed to those actually paying more dollars into the tax pot then what they consume out via tax dollars.

          Governments can ONLY realise more taxes by having MORE people in a society actually paying NET tax dollars, else no one will exist to actually pay taxes into the system – all remaining people will be consumers of tax dollars, be they a teacher, or someone on welfare – they all cost the government MORE then what they pay into the system.
          The “instant” a country passes the above line of less tax payers is about the same time their economies start swirling down the toilet. Socialism only works if you have enough people to take things away from!

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • bachcole

            Albert, you described exactly what I was trying to say, only better.

      • You bet that I want free music and video downloads without any payment to those that produce it. That would be awesome!!!

      • Christina

        Exactly!
        Christina

      • Linda

        Leonard, your adjustment to the new Post-Capitalist era will likely be painful, but I assure you, you will survive it.

        Here is the reality; there will soon be 9 BILLION people on planet earth. Capitalism has no answer for the problems that we will face in the near future. Indeed, at present rates of consumption, Capitalism will soon destroy this planet. We cannot allow that to happen.

        Capitalism has burnt itself out. It has no more answers. Not all of the 7 Billion people on this earth, not even a tiny fraction of them can be record or video producers, nor is there any need for them to be. The sum of our productive capacity on earth is now well in excess of what everyone needs to survive.

        The truth is, we could end poverty and hunger around the world tomorrow for a small fraction of what we now spend on war, but CAPITALISM won’t allow it.

        Capitalism is the problem, not the solution. You credit Capitalism with giving us a technological society, but human societies have always been technological societies, since the first stone ax was made. The vast majority of our present technological revolution is founded upon discoveries made during our long agrarian socialist history, produced by human beings living in small tribes, villages and towns.

        Capitalism has got to go. 150 years of modern capitalism has concentrated half the wealth of the entire earth into the hands of a tiny number of people. The bottom line is, there is no way in HELL that 62 people are going to be allowed to lord it over 9 BILLION for much longer. You have to accept that.

        What is going to happen is that our productive capacity, brought about by technology (not capitalism) will be redistributed horizontally, by decentralising and democratising the means of production. That means we will all, individually, generate our own power, use 3D printing to build everything from spare parts to entire towns, and there will be no need for anyone to work. And yes, people WILL produce music and videos for free and give them away, just as millions do right now, because no one will need to work to survive. We will work, but we will do it for pleasure, and for self-improvement.

        Capitalism will not be overthrown in a violent revolution; rather, it will be gradually “dis-intermediated”. Everything will be free, there will be no more capitalism, no more for-profit companies, no more need to work to survive, and no more oligarchies.

        When I first started writing about this 3.5 years ago in this forum, everyone said I was crazy, and I was obliquely threatened with being reported for being a communist. Now, we have a Democratic Socialist running for President, and it looks like he may win by the largest majority in history. Socialism is surging ahead everywhere.

        But don’t worry, nobody is coming to steal your precious stuff. If we survive this next 10 to 15 years, the faux prosperity that is the Capitalist system, where everyone trades their most valuable commodity, time, for a 30 year mortgage and a house full of plastic crap… this system will be replaced by such abundance that the word “greed” no longer has a meaning. We will go back to living in real human communities, not these contrivances we call “cities”, and we will set about the real work, which is repairing the damage done to the earth by Capitalism.

        I sincerely hope you live to see it, and that you learn to enjoy it.

        • LarryJ

          I enjoyed and agree with a number of points in your comment but I would like to point out that technology improves standards of living and improved standards of living tend to depress birth rates. The development of cold fusion tech will at the same time allow the earth to support more people with a higher standard of living and will at the same time stem population growth.

          I think one day we will have an economy where basic needs are free to all and people compete for jobs but out of interest and a direction in life, not money. In the Star Trek series the people working on the Starship Enterprise are not paid. In fact judging from some of the characters in the movies they don’t even have a retirement plan. They do it for the glory. Until then, capitalism has been proven as the best system for allocation of capital.

          • Omega Z

            In the Star Trek series, people are paid. Instead of currency, they recieve credits. There is also rank, privilege, the ruling class & the elite.

            If one conforms to society(contributes in a meaningful way), there basic needs are met. If they do not conform, they are poor street people. In the series, it portrays that the vast majority conform, But not all.

            I think the important point is that they provide opportunity for all that make an effort. Today, even if your ready & willing, there may be no opportunity.

          • Warthog

            “Instead of currency, they receive credits.”

            It is still “money”, no matter what it is called. This is what the communist purists who post here seem unable to grasp….there will ALWAYS be some means of value exchange, whether it is barter, dollar bills, or credits. And it will be “money”.

          • David Taylor-Fuller

            Money will always be needed. Even in a world where you could manufacture everyhting on demand for insignificant resource input.

            The main reason Money will be needed is because in the end there is one thing we will not be able to easily duplicate. It is human time and effort. In a world where everyone is pursuing what motivates them. How do you collaborate? If there is a person making the best damn chairs ever in a way that cannot be easily replicated by technology. And you want one of those chairs. What incentive does the chair maker have to prioritize order in which chairs are delivered. Sure it is a contrived example but I hope it illustrates the point that money will be needed. It doesnt have to take the form of currency as we understand it today. It could take the form of reputation. Sure you would need an iron clad system to instantly judge the reputation of someone; hell with the internet we have at least 1/3 of what we need to build such a currency.

          • bachcole

            I read that, and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. “Credits” is just another word for “currency”.

          • Omega Z

            Exactly, It is still a rose.

            And interestingly, The writers who have a whole range of artistic freedom, still can’t come up with a workable society that doesn’t involve a hierarchy of some sort.

        • Warthog

          LOL. Capitalism is in the process of developing the answer to “(not) destroying the planet” as we speak….see the two recent flight and recovery of reusable rocket booster stages (Falcon 9 (Elon Musk-Tesla) and Blue Origin (Jeff Bezos-Amazon). Mankind will soon, thanks to evil capitalism, have access to the resources of the entire solar system to provide raw materials, and eventually off-planet production and living sites.

          And although LENR can drastically accelerate the above process, it is NOT necessary for it to happen.

          What you fail to understand is that capitalism and technology mutually boost one another in an accelerating cycle of improvement…..socialism does not. Socialism has produced poverty wherever it has been tried.

          • David Taylor-Fuller

            I up voted you because I mostly agree with what you said. Granted the system that the modern world has used to develop its current technological capabilities was not pure capitalism it was a hybrid of both capitalism and socialism/central planning. Neither system in and of itself works, they are all predisposed to extreme’s. Also China’s historically recent explosion should also show that pure capitalism is not required for continued development. What is required is for people to not only have the desire for change but to also have the will to pursue it. In a Pure capitalistic system it is assumed that if one can make profit from something that is sufficient enough of a driver. In a socialistic/central planning system the state must provide that drive. This is what we see in China. The communist party had a problem and its proper solution was the only way they could maintain power so they have embarked on this massive technological modernization. As a result they have taken some of the ideas of capitalism, merged them with state owned companies to drive their development.

            Compared that to the US of today, We are contented in a way. Sure we have problems, but there is zero national consensus on which problems are most important and even less consensus on which approach is best to resolve those problems. Now from a capitalistic perspective, this shouldn’t be an issue because the only thing that matters is can you make profit/create value from solving a problem. unfortunately a lot of the problems facing us have a high barrier of entry. Which means trying to solve them requires convincing those with the capital to invest in your particular solution. Now this mostly side steps the problem with waiting on government to decide what they want to support. But that is only true so long as the barrier to entry isn’t a government regulation or the requirement for the completion of research so basic that only government (more accurately the people) have the clout necessary to back it.

            So from where I stand the problem isn’t the system of governance a society chooses. It is much more basic than that. It is what is the “thing” that functions as the driver of development. For a country that embraces most of the ideas behind capitalism its government has to not only protect it from its extremes. But also make sure that the barriers to entry for solving most problems are low enough that any citizen of that country can undertake them. If your country chooses Socialism/central planning then the ruling party must be populated with visionary leaders.

          • Warthog

            “What is required is for people to not only have the desire for change but to also have the will to pursue it.”

            They also must have the freedom and access to the resources (capital) to do so.

            Either private parties provide the capital or government does. If government is the sole source of capital, it will virtually always prioritize wrongly. If only private parties are the sole source of capital, larger projects will probably not be undertaken.

            Societal experience has proven that a mixed system simply works better.

          • David Taylor-Fuller

            Again almost completely agree. I don’t believe Government ALWAYS chooses incorrectly. It is just that the likely hood that they will is higher and the affects of that poor choice is much worse. This is primarily because the way government tends to choose is they choose one thing, or the thing that they choose creates barriers to entry for others interested in other solutions. The counter example I would point to is China. Clearly the communist party in China hasn’t ALWAYS chosen incorrectly. Though I doubt all their choices have panned out the way they would have liked it. But eventually their run of great leadership will dry up or they will get a premier that cannot hold a candle to those that came before. And then the number of bad decisions will swamp the good ones.

          • Warthog

            Not necessary that “…government AWAYS chooses incorrectly.” And if that is what you understood from my comment, it certainly was not what I meant. All that has to happen is for one system to perform consistently statistically better than the other over time. I suspect that even a ratio as low as 51/49 forces success of one system over another, if worked over a long enough time period. Of course, the higher the percentage of “good choices”, the faster the process will happen.

            Governments have learned over time that they have better success if they “choose more than one thing”. This is why US grant funding agencies like ARPA, DARPA, and the like have the legislative charter to put at least 10% of their budget grants into “wild hare/blue sky” research.

            Neither “pure communism” or “pure capitalism” is “best”. Empirical evidence (societal experiments) have shown that a mix of the two simply succeeds better. The difficulties come from the extremists on the “pure communism” side foisting (or trying to foist) their views on others by force. Since the “pure capitalists” do NOT work to institute their position by force, they are just ignored.

          • David Taylor-Fuller

            I think we are in agreement on this. I only disagreed with the usage of always in the context you chose. I believe the following saying is true

            “Only a Sith believes in absolutes”

          • LarryJ

            I think the major advantage capitalism has over government planning is the speed with which it responds when a plan is not working. A capitalist will run out of financial capital which quickly brings a failed idea to an end. Governments hang on to a failed idea for a much longer period because they have to first run out of political capital which usually has no bearing at all on the economics of the failed idea.

          • clovis ray

            Very well said, I agree.

          • Kazm

            That poverty was artifically forced by capitalist embargoes as a way to show that socialism won’t be allowed to work=cold war.

          • US_Citizen71

            True capitalists do not care who they sell to, they only care if you can pay. Governments imposed the embargoes not the capitalists selling the goods.

          • LarryJ

            Depends on how you define a “True” capitalist. I think a “True” capitalist desires to improve the life of his family and of all those around him and capital is his primary tool. Our friend Darden might be a “True” capitalist. As in all aspects of life there are good people, bad people and some in between.

          • bachcole

            I had a chance to hear one of the Koch brothers yesterday on NPR (National Public Radio). I believe that he is a true capitalist. The conventional interpretation of their actions is that they are a pair of meanie heads. All I heard was a very well-intentioned and knowledgeable libertarian whose main focus is to try to reduce the size of big government. He even believes in the necessity of environmental regulations.

          • Warthog

            Both the Soviet Union and China communist regimes were sufficiently rich in resources so that no “embargo” of them was possible. They both failed. The SU disintegrated (mostly) into the individual pre-communist-empire nation states. China simply adopted capitalism while not calling it that. I suspect Venezuela also falls in this category. And, I think 99% of embargoes disappeared with the Cold War.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          Free market capitalism with tough regulations against Crony
          Capitalism is the best system in the world.

        • Skip

          Thanx for posting Linda. I mostly agree with what you have stated, with the exception of the use of titles to express socio/economic structures. The terms capitalism, communism. socialism, and others, are wide open to interpretation. What we are talking about; what everyone should be talking about is Greed.

          noun

          1.

          excessive consumption of or desire for food; gluttony

          2.

          excessive desire, as for wealth or power

          Greed rules the earth. Mankind directly, the Earth and everything on it indirectly.

          Greed is structural. It has become our way, or perhaps always did. I’ve only been here for 6+ decades so I can’t speak for the prior past. Others do, but the greedy have changed, or obfuscated history.

          Sure, there are individuals who are greedy (not talking about needy), but I don’t think they are the real problem. People (individuals) are generally good. Groups of good people often degenerate into the organizational philosophy of greed. You may say the basis is due to one or another social construct with one of the above titles, or something else, but that disguises the problem.

          The corporate greed for wealth (which is the fundamental cause for the political positioning for power) has put us where we are today, and if allowed to continue will ensure the further degeneration of mankind. It’s inevitable.

          The solution? Easy to say; hard to do. Redefine what “wealth” and “value” mean. Take (what we call) money out of the equation. Also, find a way for truth based education (not my area of expertise).

          To bring this back to the field of interest that has us gather here; affordable energy production to all. Who really cares if it’s accomplished by E-cats, Orbos, ZPE, huge clanking “perpetual” machines or whatever. The freedom to not be beholden to the ubiquitous and powerful structure of greed is what I strive for.

          I wish I had more company.

          • Göran Jansson

            Many deep and important thoughts you give us. Thanks!

        • Ted-X

          It is interesting to note that Pierre Trudeau, who was an intelligent person and was the prime minister of Canada for about 15 years (and a professor of History, before), was of the opinion that the creation of nation-states slowed down the progress of our civilization. He was in favor of City-States, without the federal governments, as in the times of the flowering Greek civilization. Some people call this idea an Anarchy, but the Anarchy has a number of different flavors (and generally the bad flavors are considered to be the representations).

          • LarryJ

            He is also the father of the newly elected Canadian prime minister. He was not universally liked within the country though. I once saw graffiti in a john that read “If you voted for Trudeau you can’t sh** here because your a***ole is in Ottawa”

        • Brokeeper

          Human nature is the problem no matter what social level it is placed.

          This is the way of societies ever since:
          “This is the way the kind of king you’re talking about operates. He’ll take your sons and make soldiers of them—chariotry, cavalry, infantry, regimented in battalions and squadrons. He’ll put some to forced labor on his farms, plowing and harvesting, and others to making either weapons of war or chariots in which he can ride in luxury. He’ll put your daughters to work as beauticians and waitresses and cooks. He’ll conscript your best fields, vineyards, and orchards and hand them over to his special friends. He’ll tax your harvests and vintage to support his extensive bureaucracy. Your prize workers and best animals he’ll take for his own use. He’ll lay a tax on your flocks and you’ll end up no better than slaves…..”

          And because of this another wise man said centuries later:
          “The poor you will always have with you….”

          So the phrase still applies “Be careful what you ask for”

        • Omega Z

          “where everyone trades their most valuable commodity, time, for a 30 year mortgage”

          Or you could trade your time to perform labor to build your home.
          You are in essence trading your time for someone else’s time. Homes do not appear from nothing. The become from someones labor.

        • bachcole

          “Capitalism has no answer for the problems that we will face in the near future.” Neither does communism. Just because you are against something bad does mean that you are right. In this case, you are against something imperfect but far better than your beloved communism.

        • stanley

          that is the biggest bunch bull sh-t ive ever hear all the jobs and free dom of action are form poeple who are willing to work hard for a living commonism is dieing world wide it was very sick even in the 1990’s just look at cuba

      • Eyedoc

        I think you miss the point that LENR is probably a natural phenomenon that is NOT ‘man-made’ ….. methods of control or enhancement may reimbursable , but not the reaction itself

    • Alberonn

      George, thanks again for investing your time, love and attention and being the voice of a serious percentage of the followers of this blog, that want this technologie available for ALL the people of this world, not just the rich and powerfull in the “first world”, dreaming about “flying cars” and exploiting asteroids in space and exploiting the ‘other’ part of humanity (90% ?) … !!! Illusions…
      Despite all depressing signs that ‘l’histoire se repete’ and that Rossi cs is getting more and more entangled in an ango/american (or worse) kapitalistic pitfall : they are determined to “put a bl…/f..ing meter” on this !!
      In spite of my my limited knowledge of physics as a mathematian by education, I sence that this phenomena (LENR) is much broader than we now perceive and that it can’t be hyjaced with US patents, I sincerey hope so…
      We need a theory the non-corporate laboratories and garage-tinkerers can work on : Axil axils of the world : UNITE !
      (frank : please forgive me my disguised blasphemies) :<))

      • Eyedoc

        yes That is exactly where I think this is headed…’.I sense that this phenomena (LENR) is much broader than we now perceive and that it can’t be hyjaced with US patents’…..because.LENR itself is a natural occurrence , like fire . So mechanisms can be patented , but not the process itself (and there will be limitless methods to utilize LENR once it is better understood)….. Unfortunately its now just a few cavemen playing with a flame in an isolated valley…….soon it will spread like wildfire 😉

    • Ophelia Rump

      If a person may not profit from their labor, why should any labor to fulfill the the needs of others like a slave?

      • bachcole

        The answer is either socialist idealism or love. And socialist idealism doesn’t last very long and love only works in small groups, like families, given the current state of human nature.

      • Alberonn

        Here is why, Ophelia : we’re HUMANS, not reptiles… There is this teeny/weeny nut at the bottom of our cranial, the R(eptilian) complex, that tells us to grab the prey, drag it into your den, in order to prevent others of your kind to share the profits of your efforts…
        But fortunately Nature (possibly with the help of friends…) has endowed us humans with that beautyful neocortex on top of that nut, full of love and compassion, allowing us predators to live in a more or less loving and sharing or at least ordered structure : human society. No wonder we’re survivors and in such dominant numbers !!
        But than again : we’re only human, no saints : for little, private things is sometimes is nice to live according to the R-complex, be the little reptiles inside of us.
        But for BIG things – and this is BL..Y BIG – we’re IMO obliged to act as HUMANS : our human world and the world at large is in dire-straights, WE messed up…
        Free or nearly free enery would aleviate a lot af the horrendous discrepansies in wealth and lifestyle all over this planet : people that try to stand in the way (though futile) will be considered ‘criminals agains humanity’ by future generations….

  • bachcole

    Does it work? Patents don’t prove anything.

    • Curbina

      Patent applications even less. However, it’s interesting that they are trying to pull this off.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        I agree – this sounds like a fast one!
        I am a big supporter of patient rights, but unless these folks have a working example, then this seems VERY much like patent trolling.

        So Rossi announces that he achieved electricity production from LENR, and someone else comes along and files a patent on Rossi’s invention.

        This I suppose why Rossi is VERY often hesitant to release details of his LENR devices, since others without having made or crated anything will attempt to take credit for his work.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Skip

    So are we going to have more of these?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

  • Omega Z

    I like your thinking, but i take it one step farther.

    The dealer has his own million$, He wont be there to sell them cars. He’s on permanent vacation in the Bahamas along with all those who produce our food. It’s a long swim as Airline employees also didn’t show up for work.

    Those who “stole” the Escalades are all waiting at the gas pump wonder why there is no gas. 🙂

    There is a guy laying in a hospital bed pressing his service button wondering after 3 days if that nurse will ever show up.
    Oh Wait. i guess that’s normal. 🙁

    • LarryJ

      You are probably right. Thank goodness we will have robots to step in. It’s hard to believe people worry about robots stealing jobs.

      • Omega Z

        With the changing demographics in the world, we will need robots in order to assure everyone is taken care of. Dependent on who’s number you go by, 3 of 4 people will be to young, to old or to disabled to fend for themselves.

    • Jarea

      I think that the motivation to do the things good are coming from the fear that not doing so you will loose something.
      In capitalism, the motivation is not to loose your salary or money to buy nice stuff and survive. In an economy of abundance you have to change the motivation that moves and motivates you .e.g. to have fear from your boss and loose your salary, if you dont do things right. :). Notice that, it is not the money who keeps things going or motivates you directly. The money is just the exchange vehicle between what you need to do and what you want to have. Disadvantages, of money is that price is volatile and can be tricked (inflation) by the ones who have the print machines. Advantage is that is portable and direct to use.
      I say that money will still be around because although many things will be cheap or free we will wish real state things that will not be needed for survival, but for luxury reasons. However, bitcoin is the solution to the tricks we see with the money today. Bitcoin can remove that volatile feature of the current money.

      I guess in the future we all we have a base salary or a global salary based on bitcoins which can finish the poverty and hunger. The persons that wants to to have more luxury things and accumulate or have more power or control can still go and try to create more real state things, like new medicines, new technologies, that provides more money.
      Another contra-intuitive consequence of this global salary is that having the global salary will help to reduce overpopulation. You have to understand that the reasons to have more kids in developing countries is not because they can or the have access to resources. Just the opposite, they had more childs because that was the only option to survive. If you get old in an unstructured society where survival is not guarantee your best rent insurance is your family. Your kids!. With high child mortality, is not enough to have two it is needed to have more so that you ensure that they will survive to take care of the farm and care about you.
      Last word, it is also obvious that in terms of energy required to produce something, songs and films are receiving more than enough for the effort. I think we cannot compare products that are easily reproduced and “massified” with real state products that cannot be cloned. We are talking here about the influence of the information technology where the prices are reduced each year.
      In my opinion, services is what need to be cashed, flat rate services.
      Of course, the same logic will follow for this premise about the global salary and prices. There will be a flat free rate for all and a real state flat rate that cost money. The difference between one an the other will be shifted with the time because, as always happens, information technology will offer new capabilities.

      • Omega Z

        I agree, money is but an exchange medium. Much better then the barter system. Inflation is far more complex then printing or not printing money. The U.S. pumped over 6 trillion$ into the world economy by itself. Where is the inflation.

        Inflation is all about the balance of supply and demand. It does not need any outside influence to take place. That said, Printing money & applying it to promote demand in certain segments of the economy can effect inflation by increaseing demand beyond the ability to supply.

        Economic centers such as New York city can effect inflation. Having limited space for housing, real estate(Housing) is very expensive and rising(demand can never be met) thus requiring higher wages. This makes nearly everything in New York cost more. This has an inflationary ripple effect that can spread around the world.

        “bitcoin is the solution to the tricks etc…”
        You’ve been mislead. The value of bitcoin fluctuates. It is more like a commodity & is more volatile then any currency. I recall a couple years ago it lost 50% of it’s value in a couple days. That’s a 50% loss for any who were in possession of it.

        Bitcoin was something a few people made a fortune off of in the beginning by exchanging it for real curency. In reality, it is a pyramid scheme still in the process of playing out. It’s longevity is only due to it’s limited quantity, but at some point it will still bottom out. It also has no physical backing. All losses are borne by who hold them.

        “I guess in the future we all have a base salary or a global salary based on bitcoins which can finish the poverty and hunger.”

        Bitcoins or any other currency will not eliminate hunger. Only increased food production can eliminate hunger.

        Your basic needs-
        You ask for a minimum of 4 fish to feed your family tonight. OK, But you best go catch 4 fish. If you don’t catch 4 fish, I can not give them. I can not provide for your basic needs unless you provide the basic product.

        Or are you suggesting I take/steal them from someone else?
        The way that works is those that I take from without compensation will merely produce far less. Thus everyone lives in poverty.

        Due to modern society, people have become disconnected to their reality. There are no guarantees. The best society can “try” to do is provide the circumstances for people to provide for themselves.

  • Curbina

    Patent applications even less. However, it’s interesting that they are trying to pull this off.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I agree – this sounds like a fast one!
      I am a big supporter of patient rights, but unless these folks have a working example, then this seems VERY much like patent trolling.

      So Rossi announces that he achieved electricity production from LENR, and someone else comes along and files a patent on Rossi’s invention.

      This I suppose why Rossi is VERY often hesitant to release details of his LENR devices, since others without having made or crated anything will attempt to take credit for his work.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • HS61AF91

    Well all the greed vs magnanimity is just fine. Different sides of the same coin. I do hope Rossi is successful, like I believe he will be. I’d wholeheartedly welcome all others to build E-Cat like devices. Everybody sell to all those $500 ’empowering’ machines. Sell them to the new masses of independent non-rich, We won’t give a hut about money when, when we all everlasting E-Cats, or equivalents!

  • HS61AF91

    Well all the greed vs magnanimity is just fine. Different sides of the same coin. I do hope Rossi is successful, like I believe he will be. I’d wholeheartedly welcome all others to build E-Cat like devices. Everybody sell all those $500 ’empowering’ machines. Sell them to the new masses of independent non-rich. We won’t give a hoot about money, when we all have everlasting E-Cats, or equivalents!

  • Omega Z

    OK, I have an acquaintance who thinks I should reduce my fossil use. That I should exchange my speedboat for a sail boat.

    I told him I would give it a try. But as we well know, the wind is not dependable, your just helpless in a calm and it often just works against us even when tacking. Sooo I created a hybrid.

    So what do ya think?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKXMTzMQWjo

    • clovis ray

      i love it,

      • Omega Z

        Yes, I plan to run some pilot tests.
        Then manufacture to sell.Of course, (F9) applies. 🙂

    • Jouni Tuomela

      If you had an airplane-wing you could even fly ?

    • bkrharold

      You could power it with electric eels

  • Omega Z

    OK, I have an acquaintance who thinks I should reduce my fossil use. That I should exchange my speedboat for a sail boat.

    I told him I would give it a try. But as we well know, the wind is not dependable, your just helpless in a calm and it often just works against us even when tacking. Sooo I created a hybrid.

    So what do ya think?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKXMTzMQWjo

    • clovis ray

      i love it,

      • Omega Z

        Yes, I plan to run some pilot tests.
        Then manufacture to sell.Of course, (F9) applies. 🙂

    • Jouni Tuomela

      If you had an airplane-wing you could even fly ?

    • bkrharold

      You could power it with electric eels

  • Rene

    A device that generates free neutrons is a recipe for heavy activation (making radioactive) the fuel, the containers, and anything inside the wax or boron shielding.

    • Ted-X

      It is interesting to note that Pierre Trudeau, who was an intelligent person and was the prime minister of Canada for about 15 years (and a professor of History, before), was of the opinion that the creation of nation-states slowed down the progress of our civilization. He was in favor of City-States, without the federal governments, as in the times of the flowering Greek civilization. Some people call this idea an Anarchy, but the Anarchy has a number of different flavors (and generally the bad flavors are considered to be the representations).

      • LarryJ

        He is also the father of the newly elected Canadian prime minister.

    • clovis ray

      no free neutrons, in e-cat.

      • Rene

        My comment is not about the e-cat. I am referring to the open power patent: “– an activation of the fuel mixture by an adjustable neutron gun;
        – a cycle of exothermic reactions involving Li-Be-H to promote secondary
        neutron emission,…”

  • Rene

    A device that generates free neutrons is a recipe for heavy activation (making radioactive) the fuel, the containers, and anything inside the wax or boron shielding.

    • clovis ray

      no free neutrons, in e-cat.

      • Rene

        My comment is not about the e-cat. I am referring to the open power patent: “– an activation of the fuel mixture by an adjustable neutron gun;
        – a cycle of exothermic reactions involving Li-Be-H to promote secondary
        neutron emission,…”

        • clovis ray

          OK, I have been trying to get my head around this offering,sorry
          This stuff just seems more dangerous to experiment with for us garage mechanics.

  • georgehants

    It is interesting how this page follows exactly the Cold Fusion story where 95% of scientists find themselves completely unable to even look at Evidence or keep an open-mind.
    Happily the percentages on this page are much more healthy, perhaps that reflects the higher percentage here that have an open-mind and are able to honestly look at Evidence beyond their education.
    In any event it is good that Cold Fusion brings to the surface such important considerations that adversely effect so many people Worldwide.
    ———-
    Edit, I notice that the same people keep trying to use the Word communism instead of what is clearly being proposed, a new system, embodying the best of all and any good thinking, democratically chosen.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7189947.stm

    • Warthog

      “Clearly being proposed”

      Clearly proposed where?? Certainly not in any of your postings. And that despite multiple requests for such “proposition”.

      • georgehants

        Would suggest you do a search on ECW for the words “not communism but a new system” georgehants.
        Ten pages.

        • bachcole

          A new system is coming, one based upon a recognition of the intrinsic worth of everyone. But it cannot be legislated and it is not a political football (or either variety). Even that absurdly rich dude who founded Facebook is giving away like a really high percentage of his wealth, something like 99%.

          The political-economic system is irrelevant when confronted with a heart-felt love for all beings. Without that dynamic appreciation of all beings, all political-economic system are ess ache eye tee.

        • Warthog

          ‘Fraid not. Using the search box on ECW with your phrase “not communism but a new system” turns up ONE link. Doing the same on Google turns up three.

  • US_Citizen71

    True capitalists do not care who they sell to, they only care if you can pay. Governments imposed the embargoes not the capitalists selling the goods.

    • LarryJ

      Depends on how you define a “True” capitalist. I think a “True” capitalist desires to improve the life of his family and of all those around him. Our friend Darden might be a “True” capitalist. As in all aspects of life there are good people and bad people.

      • bachcole

        I had a chance to hear one of the Koch brothers yesterday on NPR (National Public Radio). I believe that he is a true capitalist. The conventional interpretation of their actions is that they are a pair of meanie heads. All I heard was a very well-intentioned and knowledgeable libertarian whose main focus is to try to reduce the size of big government. He even believes in the necessity of environmental regulations.

  • Skip

    Thanx for posting Linda. I mostly agree with what you have stated, with the exception of the use of titles to express socio/economic structures. The terms capitalism, communism. socialism, and others, are wide open to interpretation. What we are talking about; what everyone should be talking about is Greed.

    noun

    1.

    excessive consumption of or desire for food; gluttony

    2.

    excessive desire, as for wealth or power

    Greed rules the earth. Mankind directly, the Earth and everything on it indirectly.

    Greed is structural. It has become our way, or perhaps always did. I’ve only been here for 6+ decades so I can’t speak for the prior past. Others do, but the greedy have changed, or obfuscated history.

    Sure, there are individuals who are greedy (not talking about needy), but I don’t think they are the real problem. People (individuals) are generally good. Groups of good people often degenerate into the organizational philosophy of greed. You may say the basis is due to one or another social construct with one of the above titles, or something else, but that disguises the problem.

    The corporate greed for wealth (which is the fundamental cause for the political positioning for power) has put us where we are today, and if allowed to continue will ensure the further degeneration of mankind. It’s inevitable.

    The solution? Easy to say; hard to do. Redefine what “wealth” and “value” mean. Take (what we call) money out of the equation. Also, find a way for truth based education (not my area of expertise).

    To bring this back to the field of interest that has us gather here; affordable energy production to all. Who really cares if it’s accomplished by E-cats, Orbos, ZPE, huge clanking “perpetual” machines or whatever. The freedom to not be beholden to the ubiquitous and powerful structure of greed is what I strive for.

    I wish I had more company.

    • Göran Jansson

      Many deep and important thoughts you give us. Thanks!

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Guys,
    If this is true, the proof is in the pudding, demonstrate it doing some useful work, and the E-CAT WORLD, crew will analyze it and give an honest appraisal; of it’s function and it’s production of out power in relation to the input. and much more,
    If it measures up, they could not have a better recommendation than, E-CAT WORLD.

  • Warthog

    Both the Soviet Union and China communist regimes were sufficiently rich in resources so that no “embargo” of them was possible. They both failed. The SU disintegrated (mostly) into the individual pre-communist-empire nation states. China simply adopted capitalism while not calling it that. I suspect Venezuela also falls in this category. And, I think 99% of embargoes disappeared with the Cold War.

  • Omega Z

    “where everyone trades their most valuable commodity, time, for a 30 year mortgage”

    Or you could trade your time to perform labor to build your home.
    You are in essence trading your time for someone else’s time. Homes do not appear from nothing. The become from someones labor.