Rossi: "All the [Energy] Sources Must be Integrated Otherwise LENR will be Killed"

For years now, when asked whether he thought that the E-Cat would revolutionize the energy industry and supersede other energy sources and technology, Andrea Rossi has said something like “all energy sources will be integrated”. I have often wondered why he would keep saying such a thing when to me it seems that the purpose of bringing the E-Cat into the marketplace was because it is has advantages over other options for a number of reasons, such better power density, cheaper, not radioactive, no emissions, etc.

Today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, in a response to the question: “Please, if you have some time, can you explain why “all” energy sources should be integrate ?” Rossi repeated his normal phrase, but added something to his standard reply:

Andrea Rossi
January 26th, 2016 at 3:58 PM
Koen Vandewalle:
All the sources must be integrated otherwise LENR will be killed.
Warm Regards
A.R.

It’s an interesting twist, and of course raises a number of questions about who or what might kill LENR, and how it might be killed. Andrea Rossi is of course privy to a lot of information in connection with his position of CEO of Leonardo Corporation, serving under a board of (so far unidentified) directors of an investors trust which owns Leonardo.

It is not difficult to think of currently powerful interests around the world who do not want to see any major disruptions to the energy status quo. On the other hand, we hear Rossi talk about making preparations for “massive” production and dissemination of his E-Cat technology, which does not sound like he wants just dip his toe into the market and not ruffling feathers.

We don’t know everything Rossi knows regarding the E-Cat and his business situation. Maybe he’s being too cautious, or maybe he has good reason to talk about integration.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Is it just me, or is it plain to everyone that Rossi speaks in riddles? There are at least two ways that his statement can be interpreted.

    • nietsnie

      Not just you.

    • blanco69

      Yes. In my view Mr Rossi could speak very clearly on LENR both from an operational and a scientific point of view. He just choses not to. The reasons for this are open to interpretation but most of the time I feel as if he just likes to string us all along. Maybe it will work ,maybe it wont. Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it’s not. Maybe my robot production line exists, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe I sold up in Bolonga and moved to Miami where the tennis is much better. Maybe I work in a hollowed out volcano….Pass me that pinch of salt please.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Is it just me, or is it plain to everyone that Rossi speaks in riddles? There are at least two ways that his statement can be interpreted.

    • nietsnie

      Not just you.

    • blanco69

      Yes. In my view Mr Rossi could speak very clearly on LENR both from an operational and a scientific point of view. He just choses not to. The reasons for this are open to interpretation but most of the time I feel as if he just likes to string us all along. Maybe it will work ,maybe it wont. Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe it’s not. Maybe my robot production line exists, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe I sold up in Bolonga and moved to Miami where the tennis is much better. Maybe I work in a hollowed out volcano….Pass me that pinch of salt please.

  • SG

    If the knowledge of how a table-top LENR device can be constructed and operated is eventually spread far and wide, it will never be killed, no matter the efforts expended by threatened interests. The key is wide distribution and decentralization of information.

    • Axil Axil
    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Open source at some stage?

      • Warthog

        Since Rossi has a patent on the technology, it automatically becomes “open source” (public domain) in 25 years. This is the point that all the anti-capitalist sorts conveniently forget when they natter on about “make the knowledge public”. Twenty-five years is an eye-blink in the life of an economy.

        • SG

          To be precise, the patent expires twenty years from the filing date.

          • Warthog

            The most recent Congressional revisions to patent law have upped that to 25 years. It “was” twenty years prior to that.

          • SG

            This is incorrect. At least in the U.S., the patent term begins at issuance of the patent and ends 20 years from its filing date. In some cases, if the patent office takes too long to respond, then the term can be increased. But the general rule is, it expires 20 years from the filing date for applications filed after June 8, 1995.

  • SG

    If the knowledge of how a table-top LENR device can be constructed and operated is eventually spread far and wide, it will never be killed, no matter the efforts expended by threatened interests. The key is wide distribution and decentralization of information.

    • Axil Axil
      • Zephir

        Sometimes it’s more tactical to admit the defeat in time. LENR cannot be killed, if it would work effectively. Today the price of oil is temporarily kept low after crisis – but soon this situation may reverse and after then all negative aspects of oil consumption (power of Russia and Islamist regimes, geopolitical instability, social inequality, destruction of life environment, etc.) will reveal again. We should also realize that the previous economical crisis has started just with high prices of oil (which started with Iraq war for the oil). So that the oil just leads into dangerous vicious circle of political and economical instability.

        And I don’t fully understand, what Rossi means with “integration of all sources”. For me the cold fusion is not top priority, because many people are assholes and the cold fusion is inherently unstable and it could even serve as a cheap and accessible initiator of hot fusion, which would be disaster in the hands of terrorist groups. On the other hand, the daemon is already out of bottle and we cannot stop the technological progress once it’s already achieved. We simply should learn how to live with the new reality in this way or another.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      Open source at some stage?
      That would be the time when, if all else fails, the envelopes previously sent to the right people – or to the world – are opened.

      • Warthog

        Since Rossi has a patent on the technology, it automatically becomes “open source” (public domain) in 25 years. This is the point that all the anti-capitalist sorts conveniently forget when they natter on about “make the knowledge public”. Twenty-five years is an eye-blink in the life of an economy.

        • SG

          To be precise, the patent expires twenty years from the filing date.

          • Warthog

            The most recent Congressional revisions to patent law have upped that to 25 years. It “was” twenty years prior to that.

          • SG

            This is incorrect. At least in the U.S., the patent term begins at issuance of the patent and ends 20 years from its filing date. In some cases, if the patent office takes too long to respond, then the term can be increased. But the general rule is, it expires 20 years from the filing date for applications filed after June 8, 1995.

  • Axil Axil

    AIDS: acquired immune deficiency syndrome, is a fatal disease caused by the human immunodeficiency virus HIV. This disease is deadly because of its infectious strategy. It lays dormant for years in its host without signaling its presence to the host’s protective immune systems. This dorman infectious strategy allows its spread as far and wide as possible within the affected population. AIDS lays hidden an undetected by the body’s defensive systems. Only after it has been prolific in its infectious behavior throughout society does it take down its host with unparalleled ferocity.

    The same deadly infectious strategy can be applied to the adoption of LENR in society. LENR can spread slowly while seeking to fill as many niche markets as possible and as it grows in technological capabilities and acceptance it will be posed to kill its competition with deadly ferocity. Have you not yet understood how shrewd that Rossi can be?

    • HS61AF91

      even better is to be sleuthful and open at the same time.

  • Buck

    Wow ! ! !

    I can only wonder what prompted Rossi to actually answer the question . . . and to answer the question bluntly pointing towards the world of power politics. Certainly, his history of power
    politics in Italy gives him the personal understanding of the consequences of standing on the toes of other economic interests.

    As a thought, I think this answer reflects a fundamental change in outlook by Rossi/IH, prompting him to think from this perspective. They are reaching the end of the Pilot Plant study. Despite his F9’s, they (Rossi & IH) are nearing a time when the rubber hits the road . . . the
    future is no longer that far away and consequences are becoming real.

    I have been at the center of a storm a few times in my life. However, my experiences were nothing compared to what Rossi et. al. will be experiencing.

  • Buck

    Wow ! ! !

    I can only wonder what prompted Rossi to actually answer the question . . . and to answer the question bluntly pointing towards the world of power politics. Certainly, his history of power politics in Italy gives him the personal understanding of the consequences of standing on the toes of other economic interests.

    As a thought, I think this answer reflects a fundamental change in outlook by Rossi/IH, prompting him to think from this perspective. They are reaching the end of the Pilot Plant study. Despite his F9’s, they (Rossi & IH) are nearing a time when the rubber hits the road . . . the future is no longer that far away and consequences are becoming real.

    I have been at the center of a storm a few times in my life. However, my experiences were nothing compared to what Rossi et. al. will be experiencing.

  • Buck

    I think one example of the required integration Rossi speaks of is possibly hidden between the lines of a hot-off-the-wire news item.

    I just read the hot news on the on the proposed Hinkley nuclear plant in dear old Great Britain. Apparently a new financing bump in the road raises questions on the future of that project. To take a quote from the BBC piece: “It could well signal curtains for Hinkley.”

    Link>> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35415187

    I think when business leaders begin to make the decision to get out off the way and incorporate the consequences of the imminent LENR technology in their investment choices, then LENR INTEGRATION has begun!

    • Alain Samoun

      France, China and the UK may finally realize that this project is too costly and too risky for their economies…

      • For any half rational observer it’s very difficult to understand how this project has staggered on for so long. The propulsion has not come from any of those who would actually build the white elephant but almost exclusively from UK Prime Minister Cameron and his henchman, George Osborn throwing vast amounts of public money at it..

        A public investigation into their apparently irrational actions is very long overdue.

  • Buck

    I think one example of the required integration Rossi speaks of is possibly hidden between the lines of a hot-off-the-wire news item.

    I just read the hot news on the proposed Hinkley nuclear plant in dear old Great Britain. Apparently a new financing bump in the road raises questions on the future of that project. To take a quote from the BBC piece: “It could well signal curtains for Hinkley.”

    Link>> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35415187

    I think when business leaders begin to make the decision to get out off the way and incorporate the consequences of the imminent LENR technology in their investment choices, then LENR INTEGRATION has begun!

    • Alain Samoun

      France, China and the UK may finally realize that this project is too costly and too risky for their economies…

      • For any half rational observer it’s very difficult to understand how this project has staggered on for so long. It needs to be put out of its misery as quickly as possible.

        The propulsion has not come from any of those who would actually build the white elephant but almost exclusively from UK Prime Minister Cameron and his henchman, George Osborne throwing vast amounts of public money at it, and using their positions to remove or damage all competing options.

        A public investigation into their motives for making a series of apparently irrational decisions, and their reckless destruction of the UK’s ‘renewables’ industry is very long overdue.

  • LarryJ

    I think this is why Rossi would like to make a massive production before he deploys. If he can offer product to one and all the day he announces his first
    shipment then it will be well entrenched in the market before the opposition will have any time to rally against it. Even though there is likely widespread knowledge within the establishment that this could be a game changer it is impossible for them to implement an effective counter strategy as long as Rossi flies below the radar. To do so would let one and all know that the powers that be do not think it is nonsense at all which would not help their cause. A massive production and dissemination of the tech would also cause the least disruption which would eliminate one of the most potent cards the establishment could play. The other potent card they could play would be the “nuclear” card and to a lesser extent the “What about cost to the current infrastructure” card. Oh and don’t forget the “It will draw funding away from proper research” card.

  • LilyLover

    Just as plasma gassifiers have solved the problem of landfills, and yet recycling is the right thing to do, for it saves money, resources and toxins, similarly, integration is the way forward in the view of Dr. Rossi, for it allows bloodless-revolution, slow and steady transition of heart of parasites not out of goodness but out of necessity of times.
    The integration is easy way to avoid harm to anyone and still progress. But, if, fight we must, integration is superfluous. E-Cat X wins with all and any mighty resistance. But, victory without bloodshed is more joyous to the ethical. Hence integration.
    Not a necessity but a nice thing to do. A way to allow old-parasites, a graceful way out. We, the new people, are too powerful to need them, but too nice to kill them, hence we allow them to retreat slowly and nicely.

    Besides, like I always say, solar is the guaranteed staple, LENR is superfluous abundance; the ETs agree. The people of the moon or the top of the pyramid or the masters of the Universe, warn us that our unlimited ambition is harmful.Matter withers. Rossi’s LENR still has defective “regeneration of catalysts”. The universal council of advanced beings, would have have us minimize the withered matter from the E-Cat X. They’d rather have us use Solar and maximize efficiency and minimize energy consumption. & They are right. Solar is more than enough to satisfy our needs. LENR is for our greeds. Ironically, equitable permission to execute individual greed is the essence of disparity in the human society.
    Hence integration.
    Hate me all you will, but learn that – power unused is the power best used.

    • Mats002

      Rossi said that Leonardo corp should remain #1 for ever, what is your understanding of that his statement?

      • LilyLover

        If you are small and number two in quality / technology, the market will
        crush you to extinction. Once the market does that, the new status-quo
        guards will divert public money to ITER 2.0. The next revolutionary
        change will be delayed by a few more decades.
        Rossi doesn’t want to be Tesla 2.0. The harsh reality of today’s market is, you have to have “_____est” in some area to survive.
        More
        than World domination, the necessity of continued existence is the
        force behind Rossi’s #1ism. He is fighting a battle far bigger than his
        personal selfishness.
        He does not want to win the battle and lose the war.
        He’s going to make sure, immediate micro-charity does not get in the way of long term mega-charity.
        And
        most lives that could be saved, could still be saved without his
        technology. Why is the World keen on shoving off all the burden and
        guilt onto our dear Dr.? Be thankful that he still is philanthropic
        person. There is a 50% chance that in his shoes, having received bad
        treatment from the World, I could have turned into Dr. Evil. with
        vengeance.
        So, at maximum, being thankful towards neutral Rossi, is all that the society could expect from him.
        I
        and we are 200% confident that dear Dr. is gonna do a lot more than
        than Oscar Schindler, Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela combined. This is
        not blind faith.
        Just as market prices-in future prospects into
        present valuation, people are not only front-loading, but are
        pre-loading Dr. Rossi with the burden of charity. Typically, charity
        begins after sufficient success, so, please let him make SOME money
        before expecting him to start the largest charity.
        Blaming him for lives that could have been saved is belittling his goodness.
        Please be patient. And do your part – Once the product is available – spread the word – abundance has arrived!

    • i love the part …. “power unused is power best used” … but then … i am dreaming about every single one human being having its very own autonomously flying homeship … built with co2 taken out of the atmosphere for example … later eventually via a kind of living material made from algae/funghi/lichen/microorganism collectives … in where all one s food is grown aeroponicly, clothes and tools being 3d printed on board … thisway allowing every single one of us 7 billion human individuals to detach ourselves from any dependance towards nation state and or any other group thing … such an autonomization of fullfilling one s needs … could lead towards big parts of the earth now occupied by agriculture and vast areas of the sea being overfished … being released, freed towards rewilding … this vision in mind … i do see overefficient energy harvesting / generation not as a dire necessity but also not as a machination to further greedy behaviour …in my eyes, overefficient energy harvesting processes might allow humanity to more quickly transition into a reality where we learn to live more autonomous via the material surroundings first and hopefully soon after dive into the vast possibilities of shapeshifting, body-mind-feeling transformations what will allow a human being to learn its skin the skill of photosynthetis and growing itself in creative form /densities … igniting the inner plasmoitic mothercell what purifies and nurtures all at most probably the littlest cost

  • LilyLover

    Just as plasma gassifiers have solved the problem of landfills, and yet recycling is the right thing to do, for it saves money, resources and toxins, similarly, integration is the way forward in the view of Dr. Rossi, for it allows bloodless-revolution, slow and steady transition of heart of parasites not out of goodness but out of necessity of times.
    The integration is easy way to avoid harm to anyone and still progress. But, if, fight we must, integration is superfluous. E-Cat X wins with all and any mighty resistance. But, victory without bloodshed is more joyous to the ethical. Hence integration.
    Not a necessity but a nice thing to do. A way to allow old-parasites, a graceful way out. We, the new people, are too powerful to need them, but too nice to kill them, hence we allow them to retreat slowly and nicely.

    Besides, like I always say, solar is the guaranteed staple, LENR is superfluous abundance; the ETs agree. The people of the moon or the top of the pyramid or the masters of the Universe, warn us that our unlimited ambition is harmful.Matter withers. Rossi’s LENR still has defective “regeneration of catalysts”. The universal council of advanced beings, would have have us minimize the withered matter from the E-Cat X. They’d rather have us use Solar and maximize efficiency and minimize energy consumption. & They are right. Solar is more than enough to satisfy our needs. LENR is for our greeds. Ironically, equitable permission to execute individual greed is the essence of disparity in the human society.
    Hence integration.
    Hate me all you will, but learn that – power unused is the power best used.

    • Mats002

      Rossi said that Leonardo corp should remain #1 for ever, what is your understanding of that his statement?

      • LilyLover

        If you are small and number two in quality / technology, the market will
        crush you to extinction. Once the market does that, the new status-quo
        guards will divert public money to ITER 2.0. The next revolutionary
        change will be delayed by a few more decades.
        Rossi doesn’t want to be Tesla 2.0. The harsh reality of today’s market is, you have to have “_____est” in some area to survive.
        More
        than World domination, the necessity of continued existence is the
        force behind Rossi’s #1ism. He is fighting a battle far bigger than his
        personal selfishness.
        He does not want to win the battle and lose the war.
        He’s going to make sure, immediate micro-charity does not get in the way of long term mega-charity.
        And
        most lives that could be saved, could still be saved without his
        technology. Why is the World keen on shoving off all the burden and
        guilt onto our dear Dr.? Be thankful that he still is philanthropic
        person. There is a 50% chance that in his shoes, having received bad
        treatment from the World, I could have turned into Dr. Evil. with
        vengeance.
        So, at maximum, being thankful towards neutral Rossi, is all that the society could expect from him.
        I
        and we are 200% confident that dear Dr. is gonna do a lot more than
        than Oscar Schindler, Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela combined. This is
        not blind faith.
        Just as market prices-in future prospects into
        present valuation, people are not only front-loading, but are
        pre-loading Dr. Rossi with the burden of charity. Typically, charity
        begins after sufficient success, so, please let him make SOME money
        before expecting him to start the largest charity.
        Blaming him for lives that could have been saved is belittling his goodness.
        Please be patient. And do your part – Once the product is available – spread the word – abundance has arrived!

    • i love the part …. “power unused is power best used” … but then … i am dreaming about every single one human being having its very own autonomously flying homeship … built with co2 taken out of the atmosphere for example … later eventually via a kind of living material made from algae/funghi/lichen/microorganism collectives … in where all one s food is grown aeroponicly, clothes and tools being 3d printed on board … thisway allowing every single one of us 7 billion human individuals to detach ourselves from any dependance towards nation state and or any other group thing … such an autonomization of fullfilling one s needs … could lead towards big parts of the earth now occupied by agriculture and vast areas of the sea being overfished … being released, freed towards rewilding … this vision in mind … i do see overefficient energy harvesting / generation not as a dire necessity but also not as a machination to further greedy behaviour …in my eyes, overefficient energy harvesting processes might allow humanity to more quickly transition into a reality where we learn to live more autonomous via the material surroundings first and hopefully soon after dive into the vast possibilities of shapeshifting, body-mind-feeling transformations what will allow a human being to learn its skin the skill of photosynthetis and growing itself in creative form /densities … igniting the inner plasmoitic mothercell what purifies and nurtures all at most probably the littlest cost

  • Alain Samoun

    What does mean “integrated” in this context? – Is it LENR as a part of the energy spectrum,competing with other energies – Fossils,Fission,Solar etc…? Or just the opposite: Completely “integrated” to the world economy Replacing the other energies?

    • Owen Geiger

      Sounds to me like the E-Cat will have to work alongside other energy systems in a controlled roll out/transition period.

      • That would be my interpretation too.

        Rossi’s statement is very blunt. To me it sounds like a offer that he can’t refuse has been made and accepted, and there will be no ‘free for all’.

        • Owen Geiger

          It’s highly unlikely that the titans of industry who have built their empires on energy will sit idly by while Rossi destroys them.

          One possibility: the military gets COP 100 reactors, while the public gets COP 3-6 reactors that work as boosters in conventional heating systems.

          • Samec

            Very Exactly

        • Ophelia Rump

          There merely has to be an opportunity for all the players to transition into the new game.
          Oil is an ugly thing which is best left underground. No one will mind leaving it there if they have better opportunities in the new energy.

          The key is opening the floodgates for all rather than trying to miser the energy supply for the world. I think it is already too late to suppress or meter this. It will not be long before LENR is a successful garage technology.

          We live in a new paradigm and the old ways of technological suppression are not so easy to impose as they once were. Open source the technology and sell the wafers, charge a premium for a poker chip and a little sticker which says “Industial Heat Inside”.

          • Alan DeAngelis
          • Anon2012_2014

            Re whaling chart by Alan:

            Great chart. Exactly right.

          • Roland

            Rossi made it very plain in the early going that the information required to replicate his work would be released from multiple sources upon his untimely demise.

          • Barbierir

            Whale oil was replaced by kerosene

          • Omega Z

            Which is extracted from petroleum, coal or shale oil.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Rossi has claimed that he’s gotten some ideas from his followers.

          • sam

            You can see in his BLOG when
            he thinks there is merit in a comment
            that might help him in some way.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Confirms my suspicion that he “speaks softly”, so as not to provoke the powers to be. To successfully launch into massive production, he must have the e-cat perfected………because the lapdog press and the establishment will be poised and itching to seize upon any slight mishap.

        • Ted-X

          The name Industrial Heat confirms that. Suppression can actually be very effective and it works, now for over 100 years. The list of terminated names is very long.

        • LilyLover

          “… an offer he can’t refuse has been made and reluctantly accepted…”
          >>
          I think he knew that that would happen in the future. Therefore as an antidote to future blackmail, the Chinese Dragon’s involvement and production capabilities were put into place. I know you’ll say the Masters of the World are united against humanity – but, remember this very well, there is a well meaning entrenched and dormant force in the Chinese civilization that surpasses all the controllers and even the bankers. They hold power, are detached from ephemeral “money”, and can and do shape the hearts and minds, first by love, then by fear, and if necessary, by power.
          Remember, the Green and the Red are on our side. And so are the Hung.
          Killing E-Cat is not that easy.

          • ScienceFan

            Energy extraction, management, and utilities are literally mutli-TRILLION dollar (pardon the pun) powerhouses. We already see that power companies in the states are buying politicians and pushing for laws that severely limit the expansion of solar power because it cuts into their profits, and that’s just the utility companies: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2888358/how-regulators-and-legislators-make-it-harder-for-you-to-use-solar-power.html

            Look at OPEC, Russia’s energy economy, the massive expansion of fracking in the USA, etc. To them, something that could completely overturn the current energy production systems isn’t just dangerous, it would be someone coming and stealing their magic money trees away from them. They will defend their cash cows to the death, and preferably not their own. This makes LENR, if it turns out to be as real and promising as Rossi makes it out to be, exceedingly dangerous.

            Rossi has to have LENR ready and set to conquer to world, or the people of the other energy systems will do everything in their power to crush it before it has a chance to grow.

          • Ted-X

            The Money may choke the Ecat at any time and stay with oil, but that path is very short and quite dangerous to them. The oil will no longer be there at one point. The nuclear power and coal will not fill the vacuum. Once the oil is depleted, this will make the military disfunctional within a year or two, social order control and other institutions will not be working. As a result, the situation will be totally out of control and in its best parts will resemble the state of Somalia (2008) or that of the Russian revolution of 1917 or the French insurrection of 1789 but with more chaos than in these three cases. There will be no cakes if the bread will not be there and people will be desperate. The Money will have no value or any significant power in such a situation. It would not be good for anybody, both rich and poor.

          • It isn’t necessary for the energy cartels to suppress cold fusion. They only need to control it, so the unimaginable profits flow into their pockets, not those of competitors. As all the big boys are already invested in nuclear power to one extent or another, all that is necessary is to generate a false fear campaign through the controlled media then have tame politicians ‘respond to concerns’ by legislating LENR into the nuclear stockade.

            This would serve a number of purposes (preventing ‘garage’ research, cutting off potential demand for private/domestic units) but the primary purpose would be hand total monopoly control of the tech to the cartels, which may or may not pay nominal royalties to the IP holders.

          • You are right.

            There is no problem the big guys make money with LENR, and this is even a requirement for the revolution to go fast.

            Startup cannot implement the transition fast enough, and if they don’t ally and concede most of the value to big players who can invest trillion, they will be marginalized quickly.

            the problem is that many big corp only dream to build an economic rent and exploit a cash cow, not to develop it.

            LENR itself like internet network itself, should not be the cash cow. It should be a commodity market that enable really innovative technology like Uber…
            even Facebook , or soon Uber should become a commodity to enable new entrepreneurship built on top of that platform.

            This is what emerged from exchange with LENR-cities…
            LENR is the core of a revolution, and intelligence=value should be in the extremities, not in the core.
            Anyway there is huge money to make with LENR as a commodity since the marker, even with low margin, is mega huge.

            To implement LENR not as an invention, but as an innovation, you need huge capital, thus you need big guys.

            The secret will be , not to integrate the technology like sail and steam boats, but to integrate the talents and the capital of big corps with the expertize of LENR inventors.

          • The “integration” thing is all about infrastructure. BigOil&Banks(ie. gov) knows about this. They know and Rossi know that money will be made on bandwidth, ie. power transmission, not energy. And on the unlimited amount of future applications of course. The Internet analogy is great. In 1994 when setting up my first ISP in consisted of 28,8 kb/s modems. Today my connection at home is 100 Mb/s. Go figure…

            That said, I believe it will become absolutely possible to be self sufficient on energy, food etc. But most people don’t care about having a LENR reactor at home. They worry about other things, get addicted to junk food and consumption and will continue to do so for psychological reasons.

            The “big boys” are already making the transition (since 2011), and it will be hard(er) in places like Mid East and Russia. But all this is already happening. For the “boys” it’s all about Power (its not even money since they can print that) over people through consumption/debts and votes/taxes/fear/surveillance. This is what makes them tick. And this is the reason that controlling transactions (information and energy) are much more important to them than the information and energy per se. (allthough they dont really say that…).

          • So, it looks like the test will not end in February because of a drop in efficiency, so he may have to refuel, which could take a week.

          • Paul Smith

            He has spare E-Cat inside the container, just for cases like this

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Linguistic scholars have extrapolated the rapidly increasing usage of the word “sustainable” and determined that by the year 2009, that the entire human language will consist only of that one word.

            https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-H_w0v8e3N_0/TyVLWYzjVCI/AAAAAAAAQx0/cXFOiPRMy8k/s1600/sustainable.png

          • It would be nice to believe that such a benevolent force might exist, but if so — where were they when some 40,000,000 Chinese people were killed by their despotic government during the ‘cultural revolution’?

          • LilyLover

            Making sure the number was contained at 40M instead of 80M?
            But, honestly, I don’t know. May be that was not THAT significant to them, then, or may be they themselves were the ones doing it? No, just kidding.
            To them – Health of the Earth as a whole matters more than minor geopolitical events.

    • LilyLover

      Rossi doesn’t use integrate to mean “Assimilate or die”.
      Although, most of us would like it that way, right? 🙂

  • Alain Samoun

    What does mean “integrated” in this context? – Is it LENR as a part of the energy spectrum,competing with other energies – Fossils,Fission,Solar etc…? Or just the opposite: Completely “integrated” to the world economy Replacing the other energies?

    • Owen Geiger

      Sounds to me like the E-Cat will have to work alongside other energy systems in a controlled roll out/transition period.

      • That would be my interpretation too.

        Rossi’s statement is very blunt. To me it sounds like an offer he can’t refuse has been made and reluctantly accepted, and there will be no ‘free for all’.

        • Owen Geiger

          It’s highly unlikely that the titans of industry who have built their empires on energy will sit idly by while Rossi destroys them.

          One possibility: the military gets COP 100 reactors, while the public gets COP 3-6 reactors that work as boosters in conventional heating systems.

          • Samec

            Very Exactly

        • Ted-X

          The name Industrial Heat confirms that. Suppression can actually be very effective and it works, now for over 100 years. The list of terminated names is very long.

        • LilyLover

          “… an offer he can’t refuse has been made and reluctantly accepted…”
          >>
          I think he knew that that would happen in the future. Therefore as an antidote to future blackmail, the Chinese Dragon’s involvement and production capabilities were put into place. I know you’ll say the Masters of the World are united against humanity – but, remember this very well, there is a well meaning entrenched and dormant force in the Chinese civilization that surpasses all the controllers and even the bankers. They hold power, are detached from ephemeral “money”, and can and do shape the hearts and minds, first by love, then by fear, and if necessary, by power.
          Remember, the Green and the Red are on our side. And so are the Hung.
          Killing E-Cat is not that easy.

          • It would be nice to believe that such a benevolent force might exist, but if so — where were they when some 40,000,000 Chinese people were killed by their despotic government during the ‘cultural revolution’?

          • LilyLover

            Making sure the number was contained at 40M instead of 80M?
            But, honestly, I don’t know. May be that was not THAT significant to them, then, or may be they themselves were the ones doing it? No, just kidding.
            To them – Health of the Earth as a whole matters more than minor geopolitical events.

    • LilyLover

      Rossi doesn’t use integrate to mean “Assimilate or die”.
      Although, most of us would like it that way, right? 🙂

  • I don’t get it.

    Other heating system companies just offer their heaters. The remaining is plumbing and thermal engineering.

    I don’t get why Rossi cares about this?? It’s not his task to develop a whole suite.

    Seems again like another delay tactic…

    • The secret of Edison success was to propose a complete system, including maintenance, from cradle to the bin, and many companies today propose that, even Apple.
      Energy industrialist do that very well since Edison.
      Airbus do that when selling crazy planes like A380.

      LENR-Cities explain clearly that if the innovators don’t involve the incumbent in the revolution, it will be slower, it will be a huge loss of values, it will destabilize all.
      Finally it will go back to an equilibrium, but like after a war, with thousands of devastated industries, social unrest, lost talents, political dead ends, luddite suicide response.

      It seems Rossi have understood something about how to manage a revolution. (nort so sure, may be just he try to reassure the losers)

      • Ophelia Rump

        Edison wanted DC power distribution which had 100% loss by 20 Miles.
        It was Tesla who was successful in distributing AC electricity and changing the world. Edison would have flopped.

        • JDM

          The longest HVDC link in the world is the Rio Madeira link in Brazil, which consists of two bipoles of ±600 kV, 3150 MW each, connecting Porto Velho in the state of Rondônia to the São Paulo area. The length of the DC line is 2,375 km (1,476 mi).
          Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current

        • Private Citizen

          You are right. Ironically, now we have technology to transport and convert high voltage DC more efficiently over longer distances than AC.

        • TVulgaris

          It was Westingouse who changed the world. Tesla never made the requisite millions (that would be at least billions today) to prevent all of his efforts and eventually he, himself, from being marginalized to such a point that mostly only engineers and scientists remembered his

          contribution to human history for decades. The lack of shallow pecuniary interest may prove to be one of humanity’s greatest tragedies, especially as he worked rather diligently to obviate the complete reliance on fossil fuels many decades before that reliance became a global existential threat.

    • Owen Geiger

      The E-Cat and certainly the E-Cat X are not just “other heating systems”. Rossi’s reactors have the potential of destabilizing many industries because energy is at the core of virtually everything.

    • TVulgaris

      It’s an energy generator. The primary form is heat, but all along Rossi’s made obvious the goal was more than heat. Co-gen has always been a hard sell, regardless of the impressive ROI for nearly every system tried- because of the capital costs. The eCat represents,as you say, just another heating system, and not really any substantial immediate threat to ANY industry- but the situation is exactly the opposite with a direct generator of electricity of nearly ANY scale with an ROI that beats EVERYTHING above the size of a car battery and charging costs from the (already fully-amortized decades ago) grid.
      I’m becoming very curious if Steorn’s ridiculous stumbles a few years back at the free energy

      conventions and such weren’t completely intentional until other entries in the field could supply diversionary cover sufficient to make their stealthy penetration into the market unimpeded, or at least without unfortunate lethal accidents…

  • malkom700

    It can be understood that if the electricity grid fails, for example due to the rapid introduction. In this case, a negative reaction to be expected, of course only temporarily.

  • malkom700

    It can be understood that if the electricity grid fails, for example due to the rapid introduction. In this case, a negative reaction to be expected, of course only temporarily.

  • GordonDocherty

    “All the sources must be integrated otherwise LENR will be killed.”

    When I read this, my interpretation was rather that the LENR reactions die if the applied stimulii are not integrated, that is, in phase in some way… just a thought

    • roseland67

      My interpretation is to
      “Let the markets decide”
      What will be killed.

  • GordonDocherty

    “All the sources must be integrated otherwise LENR will be killed.”

    When I read this, my interpretation was rather that the LENR reactions die if the applied stimulii are not integrated, that is, in phase in some way… just a thought

    • roseland67

      My interpretation is to
      “Let the markets decide”
      What will be killed.

  • Zephir

    LENR cannot be killed, if it would work effectively. Today the price of oil is temporarily kept low after crisis – but soon this situation may reverse and after then all negative aspects of oil consumption (power of Russia and Islamist regimes, geopolitical instability, social inequality, destruction of life environment, etc.) will reveal again. We should also realize that the previous economical crisis has started just with high prices of oil (which started with Iraq war for the oil). So that the oil just leads into dangerous vicious circle of political and economical instability.

    And I don’t fully understand, what Rossi means with “integration of all sources”.

  • Edac

    Rossi said, ‘All the sources must be integrated otherwise LENR will be killed.’

    He could have said, ‘All the sources must be integrated otherwise LENR will die.’

    Is it just Rossi’s poor English that caused him to use the first rather than the second? If he meant the second, we would all be looking at his observation in a very different way.

    Just a thought.

    • sam

      Mr Rossi english is pretty good actually.
      But his written english can cause some
      confusion on what he really means to
      say sometimes.

  • Owen Geiger

    Remember Rossi’s dream a while back. His point may have been that the PTB require some way to control or meter LENR before it will be allowed.

  • Owen Geiger

    Remember Rossi’s dream a while back. His point may have been that the PTB (world powers) require some way to control or meter LENR before it will be allowed.

  • akupaku

    Hard to say what he really means with this brief statement. Is he talking about technical details of LENR or some outside influences like the Powers That Be? I certainly am surprised that Rossi himself is still alive and has not been terminated as has happened to many others. Or that his patent has not been declared secret because of “national security” which actually just means not allowing anyone to rock the boat and deprive big profits from PTB. Well, plenty of time yet to kill either him or his device or both.

    Not that I wish this to happen, on the contrary I hope his invention will be a turning point in human history. But it is hard to be optimistic about this, for example according to common stories many of Nikola Tesla’s fancier inventions never came to market because banker J.P. Morgan could not put a meter on them and earn money. Such powerful negative influences are in full play even today. Conspiracy theories or conspiracy facts?

    • Roland

      Rossi made it very plain in the early going that the information required to replicate his work would be released from multiple sources upon his untimely demise.

      • akupaku

        Oh, nice to know he has taken precautions! So there is some hope then that we will actually see something of his work out in the world in a few years time.

  • Ophelia Rump

    There merely has to be an opportunity for all the players to transition into the new game.
    Oil is an ugly thing which is best left underground. No one will mind leaving it there if they have better opportunities in the new energy.

    The key is opening the floodgates for all rather than trying to miser the energy supply for the world. I think it is already too late to suppress or meter this. It will not be long before LENR is a successful garage technology.

    We live in a new paradigm and the old ways of technological suppression are not so easy to impose as they once were. Open source the technology and sell the wafers, charge a premium for a poker chip and a little sticker which says “Industial Heat Inside”.

  • theBuckWheat

    LENR is a truth about physical reality that has always been there and is just now being teased out of obscurity by very persistent, resourceful and curious people like Rossi. My question is not how real LENR is, but how commercially viable it is, taking all things into account.

    Only the free market can determine if a given technology will be widely adopted. The market tends to take in every economic aspect, from life-cycle costs to implied risk and liability. The free market is far better at this than any government bureaucrat or self-appointed expert. But in the end the free market is driven by a type of economic truth.

    LENR itself is a type of truth about physics. No force on earth can suppress truth forever. No amount of money can purchase suppression. No government can outlaw truth. Indeed, that is the exact reason that socialism fails so utterly and in such a bloody manner. And should someone drop a bomb on Rossi’s operation and kill everyone who knows enough to be able to reproduce the device, quite a few people who will read these words on this very forum already know enough to restart his research.

    LENR is the most important technology that advances the human condition since the invention of commercially viable electric power. Many people are vested in the current energy dynamic. Whole nations in the Arab world can only pay for their imported food by selling crude oil. While all of humanity will benefit from clean LENR power, there will also be a lot of disruption. We may actually see it trigger riots, overthrow of governments or war. This is ‘creative destruction” in real life.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    If you were sitting together with crocodiles in a pond it would presumably not help to tell them „All feed sources will be integrated“. Rossi is certainly aware of this dilemma, and that’s why he and his company continue to keep a low profile while they are preparing an aggressive marketing strategy. Thus, I think we should not read too much into the above cited statement. Finding strong partners among the ‘crocodiles’ might however be a good idea, but that is not what one would consider to be “integration” in the indicated sense.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    If you were sitting together with crocodiles in a pond it would presumably not help to tell them „All feed sources will be integrated“. Rossi is certainly aware of this dilemma, and that’s why he and his company continue to keep a low profile while they are preparing an aggressive marketing strategy. Thus, I think we should not read too much into the above cited statement. Finding strong partners among the ‘crocodiles’ might however be a good idea, but that is not what one would consider to be “integration” in the indicated sense.

  • Karl Venter

    There are the few in the world that have a conviction that Rossi has a product- I am One
    How are they going to sell this unbelievable product to the rest of the world
    Will they sell to the few who are convinced and then let it naturally progress
    Remember that people will be very skeptical in the beginning ( people resist change – big industry even more) till they see one they wont be convinced
    What is their sales strategy going to be – only to the big guys what about the little guy. There’s not so much profit in the little guy?
    Surely they must have a strategy already and I am sure its not under NDA ? how they going to go about selling us ecats? – Any Ideas ?

    • Owen Geiger

      Check previous comments on this blog. Supposedly IH has many billions in tentative orders lined up. The first wave of sales will probably be Darden’s business buddies. He has a big network to choose from. A modest 10-50 installations seems reasonable to start with. The testing data collected and lessons learned from this group will be used to refine and launch the final product.

    • Roland

      Rossi repeatedly speaks of the business opportunities ahead for millions of small enterprises and individuals; I’ll be somewhat surprised if the only foreseen economic role for E-cats is strengthening the oligarchy.

      I won’t be surprised if there are layers and layers to the initial strategy to literally entrain several levels of the economy in concert in an attempt to mobilize vast forces rather than wind up directly opposed by them.

      Examining the board of directors at Blacklight Power, through their website, provides one indication of how some of this might be done; an example which is probably not lost on someone as astute as Tom Darden.

      The way of water, not bamboo…

  • Alberonn

    This rather cryptic remark, when combined with AR’s (pipe)dream of newyearsnight would seem to indicate that Rossi is already seriously entangled in machinations of TPTB, but still It is difficult to see how LENR can be “killed” with so many experimenters all around the world. Delayed maybe, but too late for some serious killing by the “meter-guy’s”. Even when it is a small-band phenomena that could be partially patented…
    Our real hope though, remains that it is indeed a much broader natural phenomenon that can’t hyjacked from humanity by means of US-patents.

  • Perhaps there’s a big danger for one person to be so pivotal to the outcome of CF. All the more reason to share his findings with the rest of the CF community. I’m sure $ is not an issue for Rossi as much as crossing the finish line first.

    • Omega Z

      Barry,

      “crossing the finish line first”

      Answer to your own statement. “a big danger for one person to be so pivotal to the outcome of CF”. Rossi is just 1 of several. It isn’t just 1 person.

      Tho many are impatient, it is important for Rossi to get it right even if it takes a little longer. A bad roll out to the world could be devastating to the technology.

      • radvar

        You presume that if the Rossi/LENR technology were “open-sourced” it would be invulnerable to interference.

        It is widely purported that the street car system in Los Angeles was torn up due to lobbying by the oil and auto industries.

        Who won that particular duel between free market Darwinism and those interested in “saving the environment”?

        How about the contest between oil palm plantation owners and orangutans?

        A possible way to spend one’s time better is to contemplate the real world dynamics of these things.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        There’s a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense going on around here. If there is a cheap, non-polluting source of energy through LENR, then China, Japan and other countries suffering from extreme pollution will ensure the work goes on until a good reactor is developed. If this scientific breakthrough is real, nothing can stop it as long as modern civilization continues to exist. By the way the oil industry and the scientific establishments consist, in large majority, of good human beings. They may be a little ignorant at times, but they are not malicious.

        • Ted-X

          You are right. I also get my information from the TV and I read the Wikipedia. Everything is clear, Wikipedia says that the conspiracy theories are nonsensical, the big business does what is the best for us, they even fund tax-deductible charities! By the way, what happened to Robert Mockan who was posting about conspiracy theories on this discussion list?

          • Andy Kumar

            “I also get my information from the TV and I read the Wikipedia.”
            .
            Ted, you are a good citizen. We need more informed people like you to make this country great again!

          • Ted-X

            Sometimes, but very rarely, I suspect that the Wikipedia is biased, but I know that the articles are written by the great scientists, so maybe they are not biased. In any case, the REAL scientists rightfully believe in the Wikipedia’s truths. The deluded scientists pursue such weird topics that quite often even the politicians have to intervene to stop their deluded research. “o tempora, o mores” (latin). The politician’s intervention is the clear sign that a certain area of research is clearly deluded.

          • Eyedoc

            Heehee;)

          • Even if there were some problem with mass media and the activities of corporations, our elected representatives would ensure that the best interests of their voters were always at the heart of their decision making.

            Robert suddenly stopped posting here and elsewhere some years ago. AFAIK he has never been heard from since on any of the forums he had previously visited.

    • radvar

      I share this concern. Rossi seems to hold the eCat-X close to his chest. One would hope that he keeps good notes and has made contingencies for their release in case he slips on a banana peel.

      While there are more researchers now on the problem, there have been many researchers in the past as well, and yet we have no breakthroughs yet.

      The likes of Page, Musk, Bezos or Gates could drop $100M on Brillouin or others, or set up their own labs, but have not done so.

      When you put the whole thing in a big vector space, looking at the forces that support, resist, or divert from LENR, it’s pretty clear that their are a lot of things to be diverted by.

      It’s like the problem of competing on a multi-million dollar high tech sale, and the client decides to put those funds into a new employee cafeteria, instead.

      And then even within alternative energy, there are many areas where people can put their bets, that have more scientific backing, e.g. Musk and his batteries.

      But still, it somehow doesn’t compute. Which makes me think that there are some feedback loops on the “resist” side that aren’t fully accounted for.

      Like that the potential disrupters really don’t want as much disruption as LENR might bring.

      That perhaps THEY would in fact be disrupted.

      Hmm….

  • Perhaps there’s a big danger for one person to be so pivotal to the outcome of CF. All the more reason to share his findings with the rest of the CF community. I’m sure $ is not an issue for Rossi as much as crossing the finish line first.

    I hope Rossi isn’t going to back-peddle just before the end of a monumental test.

    • Omega Z

      Barry,

      “crossing the finish line first”

      Answer to your own statement. “a big danger for one person to be so pivotal to the outcome of CF”. Rossi is just 1 of several. It isn’t just 1 person.

      Tho many are impatient, it is important for Rossi to get it right even if it takes a little longer. A bad roll out to the world could be devastating to the technology.

  • Sandy

    “The German company says it has developed an engineering installation capable of synthesizing petroleum-based fuels from water and carbon dioxide.” https://www.rt.com/news/209619-sunfire-water-synthetic-fuel/

    Perhaps Rossi means that LENR will power the systems that synthesize gasoline, diesel fuel, and other hydrocarbon fuels.

    • With oil at less than $30 a barrel, getting funding for that German synthetic gasoline process may be difficult now. If LENR could make the technology much cheaper, it has a shot. There are a number of ways to do it. The “Green Freedom” process developed in the USA claimed gasoline at $5.00 a gallon at the pump, but I think the developers were underestimating costs even at that high level. They told me the process yielded “a lot less profit” than using natural oil, which to me means they were using the wrong equations to determine costs in order to lowball the final cost estimates.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/science/19carb.html?_r=0

      • Anon2012_2014

        Burning “cheap” $30 oil while dumping garbage in our environment is like the Italian garbage strike — dumping garbage next to highways rather than dealing with the environmental impact. The real cost is higher, but the tragedy of the commons prevents the oligarch entrepreneurs, whether they be Russian, Chinese, or the Koch Brothers from paying the bill. Those entrepreneurs are they same people who built coal fired electric plants in China to smelt aluminum below world cost. The true cost of burning high carbon crude when considering the environmental cleanup necessary to halt APW is probably another $70 per bbl.

        • Brent Buckner

          You wrote: “The true cost of burning high carbon crude when considering the
          environmental cleanup necessary to halt APW is probably another $70 per
          bbl.”

          The IPCC report estimates the social cost of carbon at $270USD per ton (at a 0% discount rate).
          See Table 10-9 on page 80 (pointer from pages 34 and 35): https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg2/drafts/fd/WGIIAR5-Chap10_FGDall.pdf

          • Anon2012_2014

            Brent,

            Thank you. Found the chapter in the final document complete with charts. https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg2/WGIIAR5-Chap10_FINAL.pdf
            Page 691 (page 33 of 50 in the chapter).

            Light crude, including your namesake Brent, has 7.3 bbl/metric ton.

            The discount rate in the report is a “pure rate of time preference”, i.e. people caring more about what happens to them today than tomorrow. If we actually care about our progeny as much as ourselves, PRTP should be zero.

            The report shows a mean of $270/with a standard deviation of 233. The distribution is long tailed on the upside.

            mean $270/ton = $37/bbl
            sd 233/ton = $32/bbl

            I am surprised that I came so close to their answer with my off the cuff estimate. Whether the answer is $37 or $70 per bbl, it’s a lot of entropy to take out of the air and a lot of potential future damage if we actually melt the glaciers or kill the oceans.

          • Ted-X

            There were some more projects, but the projects and their authors were terminated or the projects were purchased by the government of the Phillipines. Rossi’s project can be “industrialized” and “metered” and it is actually the last chance to avoid a Great Chaos and a Total Collapse at the end of the oil era.

          • Omega Z

            It does not belong to us unless we pay for it.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Not if we elect Bernie.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Given sufficient energy, we can synthesize anything. Getting CO2 out of the air though will be expensive as it is already mixed into the highest entropy state. A commercial process will probably need to harvest the CO2 from the ocean (which is where it is going) to make it economical.

      The end game has hydrocarbon based fuels phased out for ground transport, as we know we can already do that with electricity + batteries using renewable electricity generated from power plants or even home based units. In 15 years electric cars + solar + batteries will be cheaper than what petroleum cost at the end of 2014. Then it is only a question of whether we should purposefully put CO2 into the environment to save a few dollars or yuan. For air transport, I see us needing hydrocarbon fuels for a long time as the volumetric energy and power density; and safety is high compared to the only near term feasible alternative — liquid H2.

      If we only needed to supply for air transport (5.8% of petroleum consumption), it would likely be feasible to use algae farms to harvest the CO2 out of the air/ocean, and then convert it to biodiesel. It could be closed cycle for carbon. This could be phased in within 20 years.

      LENR reactors might work for both ground and air transportation. We have to see what kind of power, weight and volume density we are going to get.

  • Sandy

    “The German company says it has developed an engineering installation capable of synthesizing petroleum-based fuels from water and carbon dioxide.” https://www.rt.com/news/209619-sunfire-water-synthetic-fuel/

    Perhaps Rossi means that LENR will power the systems that synthesize gasoline, diesel fuel, and other hydrocarbon fuels.

    • With oil at less than $30 a barrel, getting funding for that German synthetic gasoline process may be difficult now. If LENR could make the technology much cheaper, it has a shot. There are a number of ways to do it. The “Green Freedom” process developed in the USA claimed gasoline at $5.00 a gallon at the pump, but I think the developers were underestimating costs even at that high level. They told me the process yielded “a lot less profit” than using natural oil, which to me means they were using the wrong equations to determine costs in order to lowball the final cost estimates.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/science/19carb.html?_r=0

      • Anon2012_2014

        Burning “cheap” $30 oil while dumping garbage in our environment is like the Italian garbage strike — dumping garbage next to highways rather than dealing with the environmental impact. The real cost is higher, but the tragedy of the commons prevents the oligarch entrepreneurs, whether they be Russian, Chinese, or the Koch Brothers from paying the bill. Those entrepreneurs are they same people who built coal fired electric plants in China to smelt aluminum below world cost. The true cost of burning high carbon crude when considering the environmental cleanup necessary to halt APW is probably another $70 per bbl.

        • Brent Buckner

          You wrote: “The true cost of burning high carbon crude when considering the environmental cleanup necessary to halt APW is probably another $70 per bbl.”

          The IPCC report estimates the social cost of carbon at $270USD per ton (at a 0% discount rate).
          See Table 10-9 on page 80 (pointer from pages 34 and 35): https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg2/drafts/fd/WGIIAR5-Chap10_FGDall.pdf

          • Anon2012_2014

            Brent,

            Thank you. Found the chapter in the final document complete with charts. https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg2/WGIIAR5-Chap10_FINAL.pdf
            Page 691 (page 33 of 50 in the chapter).

            Light crude, including your namesake Brent, has 7.3 bbl/metric ton.

            The discount rate in the report is a “pure rate of time preference”, i.e. people caring more about what happens to them today than tomorrow. If we actually care about our progeny as much as ourselves, PRTP should be zero.

            The report shows a mean of $270/with a standard deviation of 233. The distribution is long tailed on the upside.

            mean $270/ton = $37/bbl
            sd 233/ton = $32/bbl

            I am surprised that I came so close to their answer with my off the cuff estimate. Whether the answer is $37 or $70 per bbl, it’s a lot of entropy to take out of the air and a lot of potential future damage if we actually melt the glaciers or kill the oceans.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Given sufficient energy, we can synthesize anything. Getting CO2 out of the air though will be expensive as it is already mixed into the highest entropy state. A commercial process will probably need to harvest the CO2 from the ocean (which is where it is going) to make it economical.

      The end game has hydrocarbon based fuels phased out for ground transport, as we know we can already do that with electricity + batteries using renewable electricity generated from power plants or even home based units. In 15 years electric cars + solar + batteries will be cheaper than what petroleum cost at the end of 2014. Then it is only a question of whether we should purposefully put CO2 into the environment to save a few dollars or yuan. For air transport, I see us needing hydrocarbon fuels for a long time as the volumetric energy and power density; and safety is high compared to the only near term feasible alternative — liquid H2.

      If we only needed to supply for air transport (5.8% of petroleum consumption), it would likely be feasible to use algae farms to harvest the CO2 out of the air/ocean, and then convert it to biodiesel. It could be closed cycle for carbon. This could be phased in within 20 years.

      LENR reactors might work for both ground and air transportation. We have to see what kind of power, weight and volume density we are going to get.

    • Mike

      Nothing really new. There are a few demonstration plants where methane (natural gas) is produced when hydrogen is reacting with carbon dioxide to form methane (Sabatier reaction) The carbon dioxide may come from upgrading of biogas and the hydrogen is produced in a electrolyzer which uses excess/surplus electricity from for example wind power or other intermittent power sources. The step to produce heavier hydrocarbons is then fairly straightforward.

  • ScienceFan

    Energy extraction, management, and utilities are literally mutli-TRILLION dollar (pardon the pun) powerhouses. We already see that power companies in the states are buying politicians and pushing for laws that severely limit the expansion of solar power because it cuts into their profits, and that’s just the utility companies: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2888358/how-regulators-and-legislators-make-it-harder-for-you-to-use-solar-power.html

    Look at OPEC, Russia’s energy economy, the massive expansion of fracking in the USA, etc. To them, something that could completely overturn the current energy production systems isn’t just dangerous, it would be someone coming and stealing their magic money trees away from them. They will defend their cash cows to the death, and preferably not their own. This makes LENR, if it turns out to be as real and promising as Rossi makes it out to be, exceedingly dangerous.

    Rossi has to have LENR ready and set to conquer to world, or the people of the other energy systems will do everything in their power to crush it before it has a chance to grow.

    • Ted-X

      The Money may choke the Ecat at any time and stay with oil, but that path is very short and quite dangerous to them. The oil will no longer be there at one point. The nuclear power and coal will not fill the vacuum. Once the oil is depleted, this will make the military disfunctional within a year or two, social order control and other institutions will not be working. As a result, the situation will be totally out of control and in its best parts will resemble the state of Somalia (2008) or that of the Russian revolution of 1917 or the French insurrection of 1789 but with more chaos than in these three cases. There will be no cakes if the bread will not be there and people will be desperate. The Money will have no value or any significant power in such a situation. It would not be good for anybody, both rich and poor.

      • It isn’t necessary for the energy cartels to suppress cold fusion. They only need to control the technology, so that they can fully manage the manner and pace of introduction and ensure that the unimaginable profits flow into their pockets and not those of new competitors.

        As all the big boys are already invested in nuclear power to one extent or another, and own secure nuclear facilities, all that is necessary is to generate a fake fear campaign through the controlled media then have tame politicians ‘respond to concerns’ by legislating LENR into the nuclear stockade. All LENR experimentation, R&D, manufacture and deployment would then be subject to the same controls (and state sanctions for non-conformance) as nuclear fission, and sales of key materials would become subject to covert monitoring.

        This would serve a number of purposes (preventing any further ‘garage’ research, cutting off potential demand for private/domestic units, providing continuity of energy taxation) but the primary purpose would be hand total monopoly control of the tech to the cartels, which may then pay nominal royalties to the IP holders such as Industrial Heat. Perhaps this is what Rossi means by ‘integration’.

        • You are right.

          There is no problem the big guys make money with LENR, and this is even a requirement for the revolution to go fast.

          Startup cannot implement the transition fast enough, and if they don’t ally and concede most of the value to big players who can invest trillion, they will be marginalized quickly.

          the problem is that many big corp only dream to build an economic rent and exploit a cash cow, not to develop it.

          LENR itself like internet network itself, should not be the cash cow. It should be a commodity market that enable really innovative technology like Uber…
          even Facebook , or soon Uber should become a commodity to enable new entrepreneurship built on top of that platform.

          This is what emerged from exchange with LENR-cities…
          LENR is the core of a revolution, and intelligence=value should be in the extremities, not in the core.
          Anyway there is huge money to make with LENR as a commodity since the marker, even with low margin, is mega huge.

          To implement LENR not as an invention, but as an innovation, you need huge capital, thus you need big guys.

          The secret will be , not to integrate the technology like sail and steam boats, but to integrate the talents and the capital of big corps with the expertize of LENR inventors.

          • ScienceFan

            You folks are taking an awfully rosy view on things.

            Look at how powerfully the oil corporations have been fighting anything related to climate change since the 70’s. They are still fighting that battle even though the general public is seeing ever more clearly that it is real. The fracking companies have been completely ignoring the gas leaks all around the country that are throwing millions of tons of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere every year, because they can charge people more for being ‘supplied’ what’s being lost. Coal companies have fought tooth and nail to keep their disgustingly dirty power plants going, and even today they still make up a large fraction of our power supply.

            People never want to let go of what they know makes them money, even when much much better things have come along. They don’t want to be obsolete, and many don’t want to adapt to any changes. Yes, this will eventually kill their businesses, but they will make life completely miserable for every real threat to their business models in the mean time.

            Many of them don’t care about controlling what’s new, because it would still force them to change. The oil companies have had half a century to develop cleaner technologies, and they’ve done *nothing* without being forced to. The auto industry have complained loudly about how they’ll be put out of business over nothing more than increasing fuel efficiency over a span of decades!

            My point is, while there may be some that will work with the LENR tech to build it up, the vast majority will love nothing more than to kill it before it ever sees the light of day.

        • The “integration” thing is all about infrastructure. BigOil&Banks(ie. gov) knows about this. They know and Rossi know that money will be made on bandwidth, ie. power transmission, not energy. And on the unlimited amount of future applications of course. The Internet analogy is great. In 1994 when setting up my first ISP in consisted of 28,8 kb/s modems. Today my connection at home is 100 Mb/s. Go figure…

          That said, I believe it will become absolutely possible to be self sufficient on energy, food etc. But most people don’t care about having a LENR reactor at home. They worry about other things, get addicted to junk food and consumption and will continue that path for psychological reasons.

          The “big boys” (corp+gov) are already making the transition (since 2011), and it will be hard(er) in places like MidEast and Russia. But all this is already happening. For the “boys” it’s all about Power (its not even money since they can print that) over the people through consumption/debts and votes/taxes/fear/surveillance. This is what makes them tick (nothing new here, it’s been going on for 10k years or so). And this is the reason that controlling transactions (information and energy) are much more important to them than the information and energy per se. (allthough they dont really say that…).

  • Steven Irizarry

    rossi lost his mind…i i instantly lost interest…you either save the environment or stop wasting our time

    • Andrew

      If you make something profitable for someone else your business will grow itself. Saving the environment will take lots of money and people with lots of money always want to make more. I think he’s on the right path, quick proliferation is a win for the environment.

  • http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/How-nuclear-fusion-could-unlock-Thailands-energy-d-30277902.html

    PS When I think back to the time I spent in Thailand, the first thing that comes to my mind is not fusion power.

  • Atsom

    Always wondered why Mr.Rossi is thaking so long to ‘show off’ his work. The last show was in Italy with the 1MW plant. He is sending out messages to test the market’s reaction on the Journal . His past reputation is saving the e-cat. Big players follow the web to get a glimps of things to come. A good invention is either the best or the first, e-cat could be both. Wisely Mr. Rossi searches for collaboration not confrontation, as far as possible.

  • Atsom

    Always wondered why Mr.Rossi is thaking so long to ‘show off’ his work. The last show was in Italy with the 1MW plant. He is sending out messages to test the market’s reaction on the Journal . His past reputation is saving the e-cat. Big players follow the web to get a glimps of things to come. A good invention is either the best or the first, e-cat could be both. Wisely Mr. Rossi searches for collaboration not confrontation, as far as possible.

  • towerofbabel

    One might speculate that this project is a tool to manipulate energy futures prices. Set up a black box experiment, see if it garners attention and if it forces a drop in oil prices then you have a big buy–when the bubble bursts, oh it just didn’t pan out. I know some have speculated that this tech has already affected the oil market.

    I know this sounds far fetched and I don’t think it is the case. But I’m just letting my inner sceptic get a little exercise.

  • Owen Geiger

    Check previous comments on this blog. Supposedly IH has many billions in tentative orders lined up. The first wave of sales will probably be Darden’s business buddies. He has a big network to choose from. A modest 10-50 installations seems reasonable to start with. The testing data collected and lessons learned from this group will be used to refine and launch the final product.

  • modernsteam

    Frank:

    LENR is only one category of “free energy” systems. Two other prominent ones are electromagnetic systems involving windings around a core material such as
    nanoperm and astutely pulsating electric current through the primary winding, and and HHO devices extracting out two monoatomic hydrogen atoms and one monoatomic oxygen from a water molecule and recombining them with a far greater exothermic reaction (super explosion) than can be gotten from merely combusting simple H2 with O2 (excluding one oxygen atom, of course). William Alek of Auroratek in Arizona, and the Steorn company of Ireland are two of the firms working with the electromagnetic systems, The late Stan Meyer apparently achieved considerable overunity with his HHO-driven car.

    Hal Ade

    • Ted-X

      There were some more projects, but the projects and their authors were terminated or the projects were purchased by the government of the Phillipines. Rossi’s project can be “industrialized” and “metered” and it is actually the last chance to avoid a Great Chaos and a Total Collapse at the end of the oil era.

  • Andrew

    If you make something profitable for someone else your business will grow itself. Saving the environment will take lots of money and people with lots of money always want to make more. I think he’s on the right path, quick proliferation is a win for the environment.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Confirms my suspicion that he “speaks softly”, so as not to provoke the powers to be. To successfully launch into massive production, he must have the e-cat perfected………because the lapdog press and the establishment will be poised and itching to seize upon any slight mishap.

    • Edac

      Your suspicion may be correct. But if it is correct why does Rossi speak at all. It would be better if he did his research (and even manufacturing) in silence now that he has the funding from IH.

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Edac,
        Come on now, lets say you had invented the single most advanced technology in history, and you wouldn’t want your friends and colleagues,to acknowledge your work,
        I think not, i would be very proud, as well as excited.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Rossi has claimed that he’s gotten some ideas from his followers.

        • sam

          You can see in his BLOG when
          he thinks there is merit in a comment
          that might help him in some way.

  • random commenter

    In my opinion Rossi’s answer was literal and logical.
    In the great power politics of this world, energy is maybe the strongest tool and weapon after nukes. The energy economy is worth trillions, entire great powers are economically just huge gas stations (like Russia and the Saudis). LENR revolution would basically mean third world war, so much it would affect the great game, it would just kick the whole game table over.
    So Rossi’s answer just shows he knows what he is doing. In my opinion it’s just bluffing. Even if Rossi himself would just fabricate those “integrated” LENR things, that would signify nothing because it would mean that the whole world would wake up and realize that LENR exists and works well.
    Before the world wakes up, the energy-related power must not feel itself threatened. That’s the only way there can ever be a LENR revolution.

  • Roland

    Rossi repeatedly speaks of the business opportunities ahead for millions of small enterprises and individuals; I’ll be somewhat surprised if the only foreseen economic role for E-cats is strengthening the oligarchy.

    I won’t be surprised if there are layers and layers to the initial strategy to literally entrain several levels of the economy in concert in an attempt to mobilize vast forces rather than wind up directly opposed by them.

    Examining the board of directors at Blacklight Power, through their website, provides one indication of how some of this might be done; an example which is probably not lost on someone as astute as Tom Darden.

    The way of water, not bamboo…

  • Max Aricim

    Rossi has a strong competitor which seems small but can become big. Steorn Orbo has publish a video. There strategy is to start small, then people become confident, then grow for large powers. The smalest device is an electronic cigaret without battery. At 3:34 S, we see the heart of the electric generator. At 5:26 S, we see an electric generator 48 Watt 220 V for a computer. At 2:44 S, we see a black generator that could power a small apartment.
    http://video.irishtimes.com/services/player/bcpid1849334937001?bckey=AQ~~,AAABogn1yyk~,LkRilRH4kedNk-13aFn_KvUuwIQyITxo&bctid=4671655616001

  • Fibber McGourlick

    There’s a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense going on around here. If there is a cheap, non-polluting source of energy through LENR, then China, Japan and other countries suffering from extreme pollution will ensure the work goes on until a good reactor is developed. If this scientific breakthrough is real, nothing can stop it as long as modern civilization continues to exist. By the way the oil industry and the scientific establishments consist, in large majority, of good human beings. They may be a little ignorant at times, but they are not malicious.

    • Ted-X

      You are right. I also get my information from the TV and I read the Wikipedia. Everything is clear, Wikipedia says that the conspiracy theories are nonsensical, the big business does what is the best for us, they even fund tax-deductible charities! By the way, what happened to Robert Mockan who was posting about conspiracy theories on this discussion list?

      • Andy Kumar

        “I also get my information from the TV and I read the Wikipedia.”
        .
        Ted, you are a good citizen. We need more informed people like you to make this country great again!

        • Ted-X

          Sometimes, but very rarely, I suspect that the Wikipedia is biased, but I know that the articles are written by the great scientists, so maybe they are not biased. In any case, the REAL scientists rightfully believe in the Wikipedia’s truths. The deluded scientists pursue such weird topics that quite often even the politicians have to intervene to stop their deluded research. “o tempora, o mores” (latin). The politician’s intervention is the clear sign that a certain area of research is clearly deluded.

          • Eyedoc

            Heehee;)

      • Even if there were some problem with mass media and the activities of corporations, our elected representatives would ensure that the best interests of their voters were always at the heart of their decision making.

        Robert suddenly stopped posting here and elsewhere some years ago. AFAIK he has never been heard from since on any of the forums he had previously visited.

  • Sceptic

    Unfortunately the man is not really coherent. Perhaps he is working too hard and his job taking its toll

  • So, it looks like the test will not end in February because of a drop in efficiency, so he may have to refuel, which could take a week.

    • Paul Smith

      He has spare E-Cat inside the container, just for cases like this

  • SD

    Rossi: “All your power source are belong to us”

    • Omega Z

      It does not belong to us unless we pay for it.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Linguistic scholars have extrapolated the rapidly increasing usage of the word “sustainable” and determined that by the year 2109, that the English language will consist only of that one word.

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-H_w0v8e3N_0/TyVLWYzjVCI/AAAAAAAAQx0/cXFOiPRMy8k/s1600/sustainable.png

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    A possible example LENR integration into the overall system would be to use low-temperature heat from the E-Cat plant in the extraction and processing of bitumen oil deposits on Canada. This will compete with the price of Saudi oil. A second example might be the introduction inegratsii high-temperature version of the e-cat into the combustion chamber gas turbine aircraft engine. With the current level of technology it will replace 20-30% of the gas turbine jet fuel. Accordingly gruzopodemnost or increase flight range of the aircraft.