Woodford Management Comment on Industrial Heat Investment

Neil Woodford and others of Woodford Investment Management LLP, the UK investment fund that has invested around $50 million in Industrial Heat LLC, recently held a Q&A with investors and interested persons regarding their investment portfolios. A couple of questions came up regarding their investment in Industrial Heat, and in both cases the questions were answered with the same statement from Paul Farrow, one of the site moderators:

We are patient capital investors. Industrial Heat is currently working with numerous scientists and is acquiring both the technology and teams required to maximise the potential of new energy technologies.
The company recently said that it is willing to invest time and resources to see if this technology might be an area of useful research in its quest to eliminate pollution. We share this quest for what we believe will be a significant development and exploitation of new energy sources.

https://woodfordfunds.com/qa-neil-woodford

Neil Woodford himself did not respond to the questions about Industrial Heat, and it looks to me like this statement was prepared ahead of time to deal with questions about IH. It reads rather like the recent Industrial Heat statement in its blandness and lack of specificity. There’s not even a mention of LENR here, let alone the E-Cat.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Interesting

    • Observer

      Bob,

      In your experience what is their intent with this statement?

      Avoid controversy and criticism?

      Lower immediate expectations?

      Safe Harbor?

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Bob, while perhaps savvy to PR management from work experience, is decidedly disqualified from making judgements on this due to his obvious bias toward the positive.

        • Observer

          You are focusing on the wrong question:
          Instead of obsessing over “Is this true or is this false?”,
          you should be asking “If this is true, what are the ramifications?”,
          and “If this is false, what are the ramifications?”.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Oh, I have thought about the ramifications. Trust me.

        • hempenearth

          If Bob was biased towards the positive he would have announced excess heat about three years ago.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Maintain confidence in their investment portfolio

      • Michael W Wolf

        I was thinking the same thing. If ecat didn’t save much on electric, it may be why they delay.
        But isn’t 1kw saved a world changer?

    • Hi Bob,

      did you get some news from SKINR in the meantime?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Today they hope to go to 1250ºC – I am hoping they can take it near to the boiling point of Li as per the recipe.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Interesting

    • Observer

      Bob,

      In your experience what is their intent with this statement?

      Avoid controversy and criticism?

      Lower immediate expectations?

      Safe Harbor?

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Bob, while perhaps savvy from a PR business standpoint, is decidedly disqualified from making judgements on this due to his obvious bias toward the positive.

        • Observer

          You are focusing on the wrong question:
          Instead of obsessing over “Is this true or is this false?”,
          you should be asking “If this is true, what are the ramifications?”,
          and “If this is false, what are the ramifications?”.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Oh, I have thought about the ramifications. Trust me.

        • hempenearth

          If Bob was biased towards the positive he would have announced excess heat about three years ago.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Maintain confidence in their investment portfolio

      • Michael W Wolf

        I was thinking the same thing. If ecat didn’t save much on electric, it may be why they delay.
        But isn’t 1kw saved a world changer?

    • Hi Bob,

      did you get some news from SKINR in the meantime?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Today they hope to go to 1250ºC – I am hoping they can take it near to the boiling point of Li as per the recipe.

  • Typical prepaired copy&paste answer from a PR department.
    I didn’t expect more.

    • bachcole

      Exactly. Why cause a storm from the skeptics?

  • Bob Matulis

    I infer LENR from the boiler plate response. What stands out most to me is the “putting your money where your mouth” by Woodford. $50,000,000 is a LOT of money to deploy.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Someone should send for a prospectus.

    • Nigel Appleton
    • Nigel Appleton

      I actually slung a few grand of my ISA pot into the Woodford Patient Capital Trust. If Rossi/IH do indeed have that which many of us believe they have, the value of IH and thus the value of WPCT will rocket.

      Such stuff as dreams are made on…

  • Bob Matulis

    I infer LENR from the boiler plate response. What stands out most to me is the “putting your money where your mouth is” by Woodford. $50,000,000 is a LOT of money to deploy.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Someone should send for a prospectus.

    • Nigel Appleton
    • Nigel Appleton

      I actually slung a few grand of my ISA pot into the Woodford Patient Capital Trust. If Rossi/IH do indeed have that which many of us believe they have, the value of IH and thus the value of WPCT will rocket.

      Such stuff as dreams are made on…

  • LesioQ

    Guess they’re still too shit-scared of F-P curse to mention C-F words in public …

    • Michael W Wolf

      I know what you mean. Just tell the world how much electricity was saved. They should have had that number on day 350. Why are they increasing skepticism by going past yet another deadline? I am so frustrated. I feel the way orbo made me feel. 🙁

  • blanco69

    What is interesting here is that Woodford anticipated these questions enough to prepare a very measured and bland response. Like a “There’s nothing to see here” type message. When you’re confronted with one of those it’s usually in your interest to see exactly what’s going on.

    • f sedei

      $50 Million investment says it all. No need for further discussion.

    • timycelyn

      “These are not the ‘droids you’re looking for.

      Move along……”

  • blanco69

    What is interesting here is that Woodford anticipated these questions enough to prepare a very measured and bland response. Like a “There’s nothing to see here” type message. When you’re confronted with one of those it’s usually in your interest to see exactly what’s going on.

    • f sedei

      $50 Million investment says it all. No need for further discussion.

      • bachcole

        Does that credibility blanket cover everything up to the 1M test, or before. But not the wonders and miracles after, like the cigarette sized 20K watt unit.

    • timycelyn

      “These are not the ‘droids you’re looking for.

      Move along……”

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Easy, now. We only had a confirmation that there is ‘some connection’ between the two events, so far.

      • There is no other conference announced so far.
        Where else should he talk and present his results?

        Lewan and Rossi have a good relation.

    • clovis ray

      great news, barty

    • Mats002

      To my knowledge Lewan has not yet confirmed that there will be a seminarium, it depends on the ERV report which still is a secret information. And add to that AR actually said yes to ‘connected to’, not ‘talk at’.

      • sam

        A.R says on his Blog that the news
        conference is connected to Mats
        Symposium In June.
        That sounds like F9 positive to me.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Reply by Mats Lewan:

      “Wait a minute!
      Rossi says the events will be connected. We actually just started discussing this.
      That doesn’t mean that Rossi will speak AT the symposium.
      Let me get back with more info as son as we have discussed more.
      In any case—planning is going forward, with more than 200 attendees pre-registered.
      As soon as we have the result from the one-year test, I will confirm the conference.”

  • winebuff67

    We need some red meat thrown our way about now! Somebody please….

  • winebuff67

    We need some red meat thrown our way about now! Somebody please….

  • hereandthere

    In response to MaryYugo, Woodford defends their investment in spite his criticism:

    MARY YUGO says:

    March 13, 2016 5:02 pm

    Can you comment on the due diligence used to vet the investments in Andrea Rossi and Industrial Heat and their work in low energy nuclear reactions (LENR)/cold fusion as power sources? Specifically, if you know, who were the experts who tested the rather extravagant claims? Did you know of Rossi’s checkered past and criminal history in Italy?

    Reply

    PAUL FARROWMODERATOR says:

    March 15, 2016 11:09 am

    Hi Mary We follow a thorough due diligence process for all our investments, irrespective of their size or the fund they are invested in.

    With regard to Industrial Heat, we were, and have been, very aware of the scepticism about LENR technology. The company is currently working with numerous scientists and is acquiring both the technology and teams required to maximise the potential of this, and other, new energy technologies. The company recently said that it is willing to invest time and resources to see if this technology might be an area of useful research in its quest to eliminate pollution. We share this quest for what we believe will be a significant development and exploitation of new energy sources.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      To Mary Yugo, Ocasapiens and the rest of the venomous pathoskeptix: beware of jealousy: it is the green eyed monster, which doth mock the flesh it feeds on…

      • hereandthere

        I guess George (Mary) thinks he knows more about the quality of Woodford’s ‘due diligence’ than Woodford does, and believes he is smarter than the entire investigative team of a multi-billion dollar corporation that is investing in the work of another multi-billion dollar corporation(Cherokee). Rossi, at times, seems like a crank; all the more reason it is highly unlikely that Cherokee-IH-Darden-Vaughan and now Woodford have NOT performed extreme due diligence!

        Note: most the other questions were left unanswered in the online forum; ALL the questions on IH…a small player, so far, in the scheme of their investments…were answered, albeit with basically the same (positive) response.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          “Mary” is a paid disrupter

          • US_Citizen71

            I think that Mary may be something like the Dread Pirate Roberts from the ‘Princess Bride’, a handle used by many over the years. The original one use to hold court with his entourage on a side forum of a porn promotion server. This was around the time of Rossi’s public demo of the plumbing parts reactor. I wish I had saved screenshots from back then. His choice of venue has always left me with the impression that the alias has everything to do with a hairy eastern european woman posed provocatively on the hood of the world’s worst made production car.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    To Mary Yugo, Ocasapiens and the rest of the venomous pathoskeptix: beware of jealousy: it is the green eyed monster, which doth mock the flesh it feeds on…

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    “Mary” is a paid disrupter

    • US_Citizen71

      I think that Mary may be something like the Dread Pirate Roberts from the ‘Princess Bride’ a handle used by many over the years. The original one use to hold court with his entourage on a side forum of a porn promotion server. This was around the time of Rossi’s public demo of the plumbing parts reactor. I wish I had saved screenshots from back then. His choice of venue has always left me with the impression that the alias has everything to do with a hairy eastern european woman posed provocatively on the hood of the world’s worst made production car.

  • Michael W Wolf

    I know what you mean. Just tell the world how much electricity was saved. They should have had that number on day 350. Why are they increasing skepticism by going past yet another deadline? I am so frustrated. I feel the way orbo made me feel. 🙁

  • alan

    I am a financial adviser in the UK. Neil Woodford is known as one of the very best fund managers in the UK. Basically a legend. I have advised clients to buy into his funds for decades. The strange thing is that this guy is anything but Gung Ho and a speculative manager. He refused to get drawn in to the dot com bubble in the late 90s as he saw no actual value other than hype. He is a value investor that looks at the long term over short term market movements. His funds have been among the best at avoiding or limiting the downside falls during the financial crises of the last 10 years. He is generally defensive.
    And yet here he is supporting Cold Fusion. He knows something.

  • Paul Maher

    I can’t help but believe that most of the furor over LENR by IH is BS and gun smoke. If you expect there to not be a battle royale akin to what went on at the beginning of the industrial revolution involving the railroads, oil barons, coal and the invention of gasoline then you haven’t looked at this from an historical perspective. If you want to know the truth of the matter concerning the validity of the technology keep an eye on
    1. Phyllis Young and the Standing Rock Sioux’s relationship with Brillouin Energy
    2. The report which is due shortly from the Department of Defense to the House Armed Services Committee on the UTILITY that LENR has for our Armed Services.
    3 NASA’s desire to power Spaceplanes with LENR and the EmDrive
    Part of the problem is that LENR folks have not focused on the production of their devices. This is in part true because of concerns prior patents and the rights attached to them. I believe that a case can be made for the doing away with those fears. LENR has become an Open Source Technology. The Martin Fleischman Memorial Project points out that their is an LENR patent that expired in 2009 and that the first time LENR was observed was in 1867 by Thomas Graham when he Occluded several different metals with Hydrogen. He died a year later.
    Technology has moved beyond what the average guy can get his head wrapped around and instilled fear in the hearts of Fossil Fuel Executives and those that dig for and, or pump it from the ground.
    I am not a physicist, just a guy that sees huge opportunity for ALL OF MANKIND to take control of their destiny and clean up our planet
    We DO NOT have to take a wrong turn here by turning our backs on what may save Mankind’s Bacon.
    @pmaher_art