Holmlid-Olafsson Slideshow on Ultra-dense Hydrogen and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (Atomecology.com)

Thanks to Russ George for posting a slideshow on his Atom Ecology blog that was presented by Leif Holmlid and Sven Olafsson on the subject of Ultra-dense Hydrogen and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions that was presented at Stanford this spring (no date published)

The slides can be seen at: http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2016/04/04/homlid-olafsson-rydberg-fusion/

Below is a summary of the key points presented.

Holmlidsummary

  • Zephir

    Prof. Holmlid is rather enthusiastic regarding his “Rydberg matter” model, but IMO Friedwardt Winterberg understands the situation better.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/4d7aoo/spontaneous_ejection_of_highenergy_particles_from/d1ocb5o

    Also “Rydberg matter” is somehow unlucky denomination, as the Rydberg states and atoms are traditionally connected with extremely low energy density and sparse matter – not extremely dense one. If this deuteron phase exists, I’d call it rather electron degenerated matter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter

    • Invoking Winterberg, a pure theorist, in the context of Homlid a true experimentalist is simply poppycock of the worst sort, especially where the exchange becomes pure semantics. But then again that is the nature of today’s sciences, worst of all physics, as facilitated by the internet which is inhabited by countless butts sitting in chairs with fingers attached to keyboards and little in between. There has never been a theorist who could hold a candle to a real experimentalist. If you have a choice to make of who to follow, choose the one who is in motion as opposed to the one fixed in place, at least then you have a chance of getting somewhere!

      • Zephir

        On the contrary: the theorists are specialists on doing of theories, models and explanations, whereas the experimenters are experts in experimentation. And Holmlid is not even physicist but a chemist of atmospheric science – and quite frankly, it’s still apparent in some of his deductions. But anyway, I’m considering his opinions as seriously, as the opinions of others.

        • Yeah from time to time some of my favourite people have been theorists… alas it is a difficult swamp to survive in.

      • Zephir

        /* If you have a choice to make of who to follow, choose the one who is in motion as opposed to the one fixed in place, at least then you have a chance of getting somewhere! */

        I can fully understand your despect of theorists after ninety years of their dismissal of cold fusion reality – but the fact remains, the frontier roles of both experimenters both theorists are balanced: both they can occasionally show, where to go with new theories and new experiments.

  • Zephir

    Prof. Holmlid is rather enthusiastic regarding his “Rydberg matter” model, but IMO Friedwardt Winterberg understands the situation better. He’s living nestor of laser fusion.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/4d7aoo/spontaneous_ejection_of_highenergy_particles_from/d1ocb5o

    Also “Rydberg matter” is somewhat improperly chosen denomination, as the Rydberg states and atoms are traditionally connected with extremely low energy density and sparse matter – not extremely dense one. If this deuteron phase exists, I’d call it rather more traditionally as an electron degenerated matter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter

    • Invoking Winterberg, a pure theorist, in the context of Homlid a true experimentalist is simply poppycock of the worst sort, especially where the exchange becomes pure semantics. But then again that is the nature of today’s sciences, worst of all physics, as facilitated by the internet which is inhabited by countless butts sitting in chairs with fingers attached to keyboards and little in between. There has never been a theorist who could hold a candle to a real experimentalist. If you have a choice to make of who to follow, choose the one who is in motion as opposed to the one fixed in place, at least then you have a chance of getting somewhere!

      • Zephir

        On the contrary: the theorists are specialists on doing of theories, models and explanations, whereas the experimenters are experts in experimentation. And Holmlid is not even physicist but a chemist of atmospheric science – and quite frankly, it’s still apparent in some of his deductions. Interestingly enough, Winterberg proposes mechanism, which is more close to cold fusion, than Holmlid himself. But anyway, I’m considering his opinions as seriously, as the opinions of others.

        • Yeah from time to time some of my favourite people have been theorists… alas it is a difficult swamp to survive in.

      • Zephir

        /* If you have a choice to make of who to follow, choose the one who is in motion as opposed to the one fixed in place, at least then you have a chance of getting somewhere! */

        I can fully understand your despect of theorists after ninety years of their dismissal of cold fusion reality – but the fact remains, the frontier roles of both experimenters both theorists are balanced: both they can occasionally show, where to go with new theories and new experiments.

  • LuFong

    Sverre Haslund
    April 5, 2016 at 3:01 AM

    Dear Andrea

    Can you confirm if the Rossi effect produce muons ?

    Warm regards,
    Sverre Haslund

    Andrea Rossi
    April 5, 2016 at 7:16 AM

    Sverre Haslund:

    I can confirm that the so called Rossi effect does NOT produce muons.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • artefact

    On JONP Rossi wrote
    “Andrea Rossi April 5, 2016 at 7:16 AM
    Sverre Haslund: I can confirm that the so called Rossi effect does NOT produce muons.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”
    Which should mean, that Rossi does not think this (ultra dense hydrogen) is the main reaction.

    Edit: LuFong, you beat me by a few milli seconds 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      The slide says mesons. Probably there is a difference?

      • artefact

        Jones Beene wrote on Vortex:

        “…Ultra-dense hydrogen can be the source of all or part of Cold fusion LENR
        related phenomena. Laser induced fusion in UDH is the most effective way to
        see the results since it produces muons as the longest-lived species. This
        is also known as the “meson chain reaction” and the lifetime is several
        microseconds, so that most of the energy will be deposited as neutrinos many
        meters away from the reactor – up to hundreds of meters.”

        https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg108780.html

        • Obvious

          Might not the neutrinos and their energy mostly end up millions of km away, more likely?

      • cashmemorz

        Mesons are probably virtual particles that carry charge between real particles. Muons are real particles that are similar to electrons but have larger mass/charge.

        • Axil Axil

          Mesons are real particles now made at CERN for $10 billion.

          • Brian

            “for $10 billion”… Each?

      • Ged

        Mesons are made of quark subparticles unlike muons, which are an elementary particle and a lepton subclass. This is like how a proton is a subclass of baryon and made of quark subparticles. Mesons are of the hadron family (think Large Hadron Collider), like baryons, but are of the boson subfamily, while bayrons are the fermion subfamily. Mesons are physically real, but short lived since they are a quark-antiquark pair.

        So, it can be entirely possible for the E-cat/LENR to make mesons but not muons.

        Edit: another important type of meson is the pion, for example.

        • Josh G
        • Axil Axil

          The kaon decay chain goes from kaon to pion to muon to electron, The kaon has a strange quark inside it, so the process that produces the kaon is truly strange.

    • Axil Axil

      It in Rossi’s absolute and best interest to disclaim any nuclear byproduct or process. How that non nuclear effect can happen is a conundrum.

    • Axil Axil

      All the electrons that Rossi is producing could well be muons. How does Rossi know what fermion that he is conjuring out of nothing.

  • artefact

    On JONP Rossi wrote
    “Andrea Rossi April 5, 2016 at 7:16 AM
    Sverre Haslund: I can confirm that the so called Rossi effect does NOT produce muons.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”
    Which should mean, that Rossi does not think this (ultra dense hydrogen) is the main reaction.

    Edit: LuFong, you beat me by a few milliseconds 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      The slide says mesons. Probably there is a difference?

      • artefact

        Jones Beene wrote on Vortex:

        “…Ultra-dense hydrogen can be the source of all or part of Cold fusion LENR
        related phenomena. Laser induced fusion in UDH is the most effective way to
        see the results since it produces muons as the longest-lived species. This
        is also known as the “meson chain reaction” and the lifetime is several
        microseconds, so that most of the energy will be deposited as neutrinos many
        meters away from the reactor – up to hundreds of meters.”

        https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg108780.html

        • Obvious

          Might not the neutrinos and their energy mostly end up millions of km away, more likely?

      • cashmemorz

        Mesons are probably virtual particles that carry charge between real particles. Muons are real particles that are similar to electrons but have larger mass/charge.

        • Axil Axil

          Mesons are real particles now made at CERN for $10 billion.

          • Brian

            “for $10 billion”… Each?

      • Ged

        Mesons are made of quark subparticles, unlike muons which are an elementary particle and of the lepton family. This is like how a proton, a subclass of baryon, is made of quark subparticles. Mesons are of the hadron family (think Large Hadron Collider), like baryons, but are of the boson subfamily, while bayrons are the fermion subfamily. Mesons are physically real, but short lived since they are a quark-antiquark pair.

        So, it can be entirely possible for the E-cat/LENR to make mesons but not muons.

        Edit: One important type of meson is the pion, for example. A charged pion can decay into muons, but a neutral pion decays into gamma rays.

        • Josh G
        • Axil Axil

          The kaon decay chain goes from kaon to pion to muon to electron, The kaon has a strange quark inside it, so the process that produces the kaon is truly strange.

    • Over to you Axil Axil….

    • Axil Axil

      It in Rossi’s absolute and best interest to disclaim any nuclear byproduct or process. How that non nuclear effect can happen is a conundrum.

    • Axil Axil

      All the electrons that Rossi is producing could well be muons. How does Rossi know what fermion that he is conjuring out of nothing.

  • Sanjeev

    I can’t help but notice the words like “can be”, “seemingly”, “if confirmed” etc and many question marks.
    Looks like another word soup without any solid experimental proofs. We need more experiments, not theories.

    • f sedei

      An inconclusive study, indeed.

    • Axil Axil

      The experiments have requested that their experiments be replicated. Nobody has stepped up to the plate here. Unless the experiments are widely duplicated, the results are uncertain. How about you, instead of criticizing these results, replicate them.

      • MasterBlaster7

        I would like to refer to Dr. Edmund Storms. He feels that to get a handle on LENR through experimentation, About 1 billion dollars needs to be spent on research. He thinks it is similar to the problem they were having with hard drives before they really understood the concept of a clean rooms. They sunk a billion dollars in to figure that out. Makes sense.

  • Sanjeev

    I can’t help but notice the words like “can be”, “seemingly”, “if confirmed” etc and many question marks.
    Looks like another word soup without any solid experimental proofs. We need more experiments, not theories.

    • f sedei

      An inconclusive study, indeed.

    • Axil Axil

      The experimenters have requested that their experiments be replicated. Nobody has stepped up to the plate here. Unless the experiments are widely duplicated, the results are uncertain. How about you, instead of criticizing these results, replicate them.

      • MasterBlaster7

        I would like to refer to Dr. Edmund Storms. He feels that to get a handle on LENR through experimentation, About 1 billion dollars needs to be spent on research. He thinks it is similar to the problem they were having with hard drives before they really understood the concept of a clean rooms. They sunk a billion dollars in to figure that out. Makes sense.