Rossi Provides Explanation about 1MW Plant Customer (Updated With Info from Mats Lewan)

Andrea Rossi has been asked on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about the customer who has been supplied with the heat of the 1 MW plant. The name Henry Johnson, who is a Florida Attorney and also listed on some documents as president of Leonardo Corporation has been named in the License Agreement as president of JM Chemical Products, Inc. the apparent customer for the 1MW E-Cat plant.

See the last page of this document: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf

Andrea Rossi provided this explanation.

Andrea Rossi
April 8, 2016 at 9:54 AM
Teemu:
I knew the Customer in the office of my Attorney Henry Johnson. They were enthusiast to test our 1 MW plant, to see if it really worked, because they were ( and are ) interested to buy more plants for their facilities in Europe. They wanted not to be exposed, though, therefore incorporated JM Products and made a plant for their production to make the test and appointed President their Attorney, who was also, as I said, my Attorney. IH knew all this and agreed, obviously, on this, making a rental agreement with JM Products to make the test in their factory. When IH met with the President of JM in Raleigh, I was present and I explained that he was also my Attorney. No problem has been raised by IH.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

So from this explanation the true identity of the customer is hidden behind this new company formed in Florida for the purpose of of testing the E-Cat plant. Maybe we will not get a true understanding of who the customer is, even if the full report is published, if only the new company name is provided.

UPDATE: Mats Lewan just made this comment, and I thought I’d add it to the post:

Ok, so this is what I heard from sources having visited the plant and talked to the customer (who could of course be an actor, playing his part in a scam…) – that JMC set up a production unit of the same kind that they already have in UK, although smaller. Given the experience from their units in the UK they knew perfectly well how much energy should be consumed and how much energy was needed to run the unit. At least one engineer was sceptical in the beginning, but soon found out that the consumed electric energy was much less than expected, using the E-Cat plant as energy source for the hot steam. And the customer was happy as a lark with this.

I don’t know which the UK based company is, but I understood it’s not Johnson Matthey (which would have been a nice coincidence, since Johnson Matthey apparently once provided the working palladium samples to F&P), and as far as I know it has absolutely nothing to do with Hydrofusion.

  • wpj

    “………made a plant for their production to make the test”

    “……… interested to buy more plants for their facilities in Europe”

    They clearly have big pockets.

    The name change from JM Chemical Products to JM Products still leads me to think it’s JMC no matter what Matts Lewan has said.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, possible. Too much similarity to be a coincidence.

  • Fibber McGourlickf

    Does this mean the location of the plant is not the documented location and the real plant is located elsewhere?

    • wpj

      No, the plant is there. It’s possible that they were gong to set up and this opportunity came up. Reports are that the unit has been recharged and in use again. Don’t know who is being paid for it, presumably IH still.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        I had the impression from elsewhere that the plant was just an empty building. What kind of factory is it? What was the energy used for? Do you or anyone else know anything more about the place?
        Secondly, do you know where the report you mention can be found–I mean the report about recharging and using the unit again?

        • Mike Henderson

          Public records show the principal place of business for JM Products and JM Chemical Products to be
          7861 NW 46th St
          Doral, FL 33166

          Light industrial park type building. Not a big chemical plant. Few prying eyes, hidden in plain sight.

          • wpj

            As I said in previous posts, it doesn’t really look like a chemical plant, but I have been to an industrial estate next to cinemas and a shopping centre which was handling some of the most hazardous thing you can imagine. Their heating plant was taken from a disused airport!

          • deleo77

            Didn’t Darden visit the site of the plant? What if Darden testifies that he went down to Miami only to find Rossi in a shipping container in an empty warehouse?

          • Ged

            Very good point. Also, IH employees were there monitoring everything, so they know where it is and who owns the site, so IH should have no problem contesting this if it is a contestable fact. (It also means they knew everything all along and had no issues, which Rossi points out in his rebuttles)

          • Anon2012_2014

            More like a warehouse+loading dock facility with offices on the other end. Probably used for distribution to local businesses. Easy in/easy out. Signs on the building show that the loading docks are rented to multiple tenants.

        • wpj

          It was on here after the completion of the test; Rossi said that they were doing that and then he was going to rest.

          He was asked if the customer wished to continue using the plant which is why he told about the re-charge.

  • Sanjeev

    As many have speculated, it could be Johnson Matthey Chemical Products, a big name.
    http://chemicals.matthey.com/
    They did a poor job of hiding themselves by using the same abbreviation. They are UK based and have factories all over the world (my limited googled knowledge).

    • wpj

      Yes, it started with me………………….

    • Andre Blum

      Below you write: “Too much similarity to be a coincidence”, and here you write: “poor job of hiding themselves”. Bit of chicken and egg to me. So, what other clues except for the abbreviation point to Johnson Matthey Chemicals?

      • wpj

        The name change from JM Chemical Products to JM Products is interesting. They also make the ingredients for the sauce and could be interested in it as a future business venture and, thus, their enthusiasm (plus their commitment for reducing carbon footprint).

        Clearly total speculation, but the name change does seem interesting.

        • Andre Blum

          Right. Looked at the signature. It’s actually a change from JMC Chemicals, Inc to JM Chemical products, Inc. Hmm.. interesting
          Then again, I don’t see they have a factory near Florida.

          • wpj

            Changed since to just JM Products, apparently.

          • Andre Blum
          • wpj

            Alternative possibility

            http://www.jmcusa.com/profile.htm

          • Andre Blum

            Right, not a bad find, but it is not a UK based entity.

          • wpj

            True; it was just put there as a speculative alternative as they also had plants in Europe.

          • Ged

            Hydrogen storage alloy production, huh? If they aren’t involved yet, they may be interested down the line in more ways than one.

          • Mike Henderson

            Search.sunbiz.org gives the prinicipal business address and info on the amended name.

      • Sanjeev

        The last page of agreement itself says that JMC is owned by a UK based entity.
        Rossi’s clue that they have facilities in Europe.
        They fit into a profile who would need steam or heat for their production.
        Anyway, its a speculation.

        • Andre Blum

          correct. Thanks for clarifying. Much clearer to me now.

          • e-dog

            Sooooooooooooooo Dodgy Mr Roosi!

          • wpj

            Well, IH sat on their rears and did nothing for a long time, so he took it on himself to organise something (while they were talking to competitors………allegedly .).

    • No, it’s not Johnson Matthey.

  • Mike Henderson

    Rossi was supposed to get $89 million 5 days after the test was certified by the ERV.
    The ERV is one person, and one person is more easily corrupted than a committee.
    The customer is a fictitious entity created for the purpose of the test and embodied as Rossi’s attorney.
    The complaint says the customer was happy to pay $1000 per day for steam energy, and it asks for attorney fees. Is there a conflict of interest inherent in that?

    I wonder who’s going to play Rossi in the movie?

    • Ged

      The ERV wasn’t the only watcher. We’ll have to see if IH has some data to cotton prays their position.

    • SG

      Given the controversial nature of the claims, I’m pretty sure a large institutional ERV willing to play the role would probably have been difficult to find. The ERV appears to be highly qualified, and apparently acceptable to IH. The customer was apparently acceptable to IH as well. That is really what matters, since they were the ones on the hook for the $89 million.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Don’t know about the $1K/day payment for steam = $365K/year.

      Sounds to me like they ran a garden hose sized water line flowing 10 gallons per minute to the E-Cat trailer and then sent the steam out the chimney. I would imagine it make some noise and was visible at the warehouse.

    • “I wonder who’s going to play Rossi in the movie?”

      – is Al Pacino still working?

  • Mike Henderson

    Search.sunbiz.org for JM Chemical Products and JM Products. I may be wrong, but it looks like they incorporated as JM Products first then did an amendment / name change to add “Chemical” last October.

    Both are registered with
    JOHNSON, HENRY W
    7900 GLADES ROAD, SUITE 530
    BOCA RATON, FL 33434

    Streetview shows it to be a modern mirrored 3 or 4 story office building, no visible signage.
    Both “JM” entities show a principal place of business address as

    7861 46TH STREET
    DORAL, FL 33166
    That location is near the Miami airport and maybe a thirty minute commute from Rossi’s address in Miami Beach.

    The streetview image on maps.google.com shows it to be a two story light industrial suites sort of building with a half dozen or more tenant businesses. For example it looks like Tennis Plaza retail uses one segment for their warehouse. This does not look like a place where I’d expect to find a nuclear reactor test. 😉
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/7861+NW+46th+St,+Doral,+FL+33166

    Here’s an aerial view on maps.bing.com https://bit.ly/23poIK1

  • Charlie tapp

    That just sucks there was never a true non associated customer. Or a non associated Erv! So no real independent person to verify anything! frank you have conversation with Rossi all the time could you ask him for all of us why he would try to pretend everything was independent ? When it obviously is all tied together, and what exactly did they make with all of this steam they made for one year other than a lot of hot air? I followed this thing 10 times a day apparently for no reason.

    • Mike Henderson

      The customer appears to be a Florida corporation owned by an unnamed UK company with no connection to Rossi. The President of that corporation is the principal of the law firm that now represents Rossi. I get that it was an expedient move to put a corporate veil around a highly controversial nuclear reactor test. I also get that not having a real live downstream process hooked up to the steam generator limits a lot of complications, liability, and potential for espionage / information leaks.

      This is all great theater. So much intrigue, so much drama. It’s like the report shows Santa Claus is real and they are bickering over rights to sell magic sleighs. I can’t wait to watch the DVD in my self-driving flying car.

    • Maybe you sort of did not understand that this was a license agreement between IH and Rossi and if they both sign, it is valid according to the law?

      They agreed on the ERV and the test facility, which did not even need to be a customer, only a facility, which some reason IH failed to locate for a year.

      Got it?

  • Frank Acland

    What AR seems to be saying is that the European company was interested in testing the E-Cat and Rossi knew about it, so he arranged with the help of his attorney Henry Johnson to set up a company for this purpose.

    • Mike Henderson

      I agree. The document says JM Products / JM Chemical Products is owned by the unnamed UK company, the attorney is the President, and nobody here has any ownership interest. So it’s a shell that hides the ownership and provides a corporate veil against liability if the reactor (which appears to have released the equivalent of 7.2 kT of TNT worth of energy) does something bad.

      • Anon2012_2014

        Unnamed UK Company:

        Sounds like Hydrofusion to me.

        • No.

          • Omega Z

            Would it be a potential customer of Hydrofusion. I recall they were looking for a client for a test plant…

          • Anon2012_2014

            Thank you Mats. Have to keep on guessing.

  • Albert Nilsson

    Should I understand Rossi’s comment as the customer took the expense of erecting a completely new factory in Florida in order to test the E-cat? That seems to be a bit excessive. Or have the E-cats during the 350 day test not been supplying any factory with the energy generated?

    • Omega Z

      1MW is a lot of energy, yet it is not.
      It would boil away about 1 gallon of (120`C)water a minute.

      • Omega Z

        WTF- That should be 6 gallon at 120`C per minute. Sorry,

  • Ged

    There should be some records somewhere, but I’m not familiar with how much one can hide with shell companies. It’s a very often used strategy to hide all sorts of corporate activities, and it’s dang effective, so I’m not sure how well we can crack it? I was thinking of using the lawyer to see what connections he had, but searching such a common name really doesn’t yield much that’s useful.

    The attorney’s rep is on the line too, and the customer was also supposedly paying IH $1000 a day. I doubt the attorney would be paying that out of pocket, so there had to be quite a fund behind the customer if the filing’s claim and supporting amendments are true.

  • Ged

    Haha. Thanks for that bit of humor, that really brightened the day.

  • US_Citizen71

    It might not be a chemical company they setup. A laundry would be a fairly easy setup or purchase and would need lots of hot water. Steam powered dryers are a thing as well. – http://www.continentalgirbau.com/opl/commercial-dryers-cg7585.html

  • GordonDocherty

    Is that JM supposed to be Johnson Matthey? Well, it would make sense:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Matthey

    • No, it’s not.

      • Ged

        Do you know exactly who it is? If so, can you share? It’s not like there are any secrets any more now anyways.

        • No, I don’t know.

          • Ged

            Blast. Thank you for all your reporting and investigations you do. I guess we’ll just have to wait for more court discovery for this one.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Where is the 1mw reactor?

          • Omega Z

            You know it isn’t Johnson Matthey, but you don’t know who it is, but, but,
            I gotta head ache.

      • GordonDocherty

        OK. Do we know who it is – assuming JM Chemicals, Inc. is owned by a UK company… As to who the Chief Executive is, the Panama Papers (Mossack Fonsenca) reveal how local trusted representatives are often picked as nominal Directors, Chief Executives and so on to hide the true identity of a company’s owner… as seems to be the case here.

      • GordonDocherty

        OK. Does this mean you know who it is ? If so, are you in a position to say who it is?

        As to companies like JM Chemicals, Inc, as “the Panama Papers” (Mossack Fonseca) has reminded everyone, it is common practice to set up a shell company with a CEO, Director and Secretary to hide the identity of the real owners.

  • Ok, so this is what I hear from sources having visited the plant and talked to the customer (who could of course be an actor, playing his part in a scam…) – that JMC set up a production unit of the same kind that they already have in UK, although smaller. Given the experience from their units in the UK they knew perfectly well how much energy should be consumed and how much energy was needed to run the unit. At least one engineer was sceptical in the beginning, but soon found out that the consumed electric energy was much less than expected, using the E-Cat plant as energy source for the hot steam. And the customer was happy as a lark with this.

    I don’t know which the UK based company is, but I understood it’s not Johnson Matthey (which would have been a nice coincidence, since Johnson Matthey apparently once provided the working palladium samples to F&P), and as far as I know it has absolutely nothing to do with Hydrofusion.

    • Ged

      Very interesting, thank you Mats. Did the sources say anything about what they were producing? If even just the general industry they are in?

      • Nope.

      • Mike Henderson

        Knowing the area around Doral and MIA, it could easily be something as simple as an industrial laundry operation. That area is peppered with hundreds of hotels, cruise lines, restaurants, airlines, and other outfits that use uniforms and linens.

        • Ged

          That’s what I was thinking since I saw your earlier post locating all that (nice job, by the way). That would be very lucrative. Steam cleaning is one apt usage model for such a 1 MW device.

          • US_Citizen71
          • psi2u2

            Ok, I see the installation. Now why would think this is the site?

          • US_Citizen71

            Zoom in on the doors 7859 is just to the right of that suite. 7861 should be the one on the left. I couldn’t find an unblocked view of the number for that one but all doors are odd numbered on that building. 7861 46TH STREET DORAL, FL 33166 is the registered address for the business address for JMC Products with the state of Florida.

          • Mike Ivanov

            We are talking about industrial heater working for established business for one year? Measurements must be quite easy, in money terms. I suppose this business used to get steam before by old fashion way? If AR is not lying, the customer must save a plenty of money?

          • psi2u2

            Thanks.

    • LuFong

      There are two aspects to calculating the COP. The first is the electrical energy input. I find this would be very hard to manipulate given at the very least the electrical company is charging for this and extension chords would be very hard to conceal.

      The other element is the amount of steam and it’s temperature being produced. This might be easier to manipulate as Defkalion seems to have demonstrated. I find it very strange that someone would set up a company for the sole purpose of testing Rossi’s 1MW plant. Their claim that they know perfectly how much energy should be consumed would be much more credible if they modified an existing plant. (They will be dragged into court for sure on this, IMO.) Then there can be no question about the energy required to for their industrial process (need more data now from the ERV report).

      This story gets stranger by the day.

      • Ged

        Actually it isn’t that hard. It’s fairly easy to calculate how much energy is needed to heat any unit of water by any amount C (a calorie, for instance, is 1 gram of water heated by 1 C; water is foundational to our ideas of heat and energy). Flow rate is coming from the water company, so you will know without a doubt the cubic feet of water consumed, and steam pressure will tell you how much and well that is turned into steam if cubic feet isn’t enough. Then, you just look at your electric bill and see how much energy you put in to heat up that unit of water by that amount C.

        Since this is such an amazingly standardized process, anyone who has used a steam boiler will know a good range of values that the electrical consumption should meet–and just looking at industrial boiler specs would give a good idea on that. Compare that to what was consumed, and there you go.

        • LuFong

          You are right which is why we need to see how the steam measurements were made. But as you know Rossi and other LENR companies have a history of issues with steam measurement which is why I think the focus should be there.

          • Ged

            Absolutely. The ERV report better be robust on analyzing all that.

          • LuFong

            P.S. – I suspect the water is recycled so water company flow rates may not apply.

          • Ged

            That is possible. Which puts all the more importance on the company actually having been using the steam for some productive process as claimed. That will act as a potent standardization control for the usefulness of the steam.

          • wpj

            Of course it was; we saw the return pipes labeled on the pictures from the container (though you had to stand on your head [or turn the computer upside down] to read it).

          • wpj

            No way you can make styrene there; the environmental problems would be too enormous (have you ever smelt it neat? I have!). Additionally, it is make in a plant where there are various other chemicals made as part of an integrated set up. Even with an ecat, it is not economically viable as a stand alone product (I am a chemist and worked, at one time, with a consultancy that was specialised in large plant economics). It would have to be made in 1000s of tons to be viable and there is not way they would be allowed to make there.

      • artefact

        With the Defkalion “method” one could cheat the cop but with a COP of 50 from a real COP 1 there would not be comming a lot of steam out of the reactor.

    • Lux Terrea

      Can’t you just steal a copy of the gd report and post it here? Man, this is such bullshit..

      • LuFong

        Go for it. We’ll bail you out.

    • Mike Henderson

      Is Rossi pursuing a “Miracle on 34th Street” strategy to get a US Federal District Court judge to rule that Santa Claus (aka LENR) is real? Once that is established, the USPTO will be forced to reopen patents they previously rejected as “an impossible invention.” 😉

      I find it interesting the case was assigned to a 79 year old judge who is so highly respected that they named the courthouse after him while he is still alive.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi opted for a jury.

        • Ged

          You know, I was thinking about that. Rossi is pretty brazen to call for a jury, given how the public has been widely conditioned to disdain anything related to cold fusion. It is a pervasive bias against him, yet he still chose a jury. He must really be utterly confident in his position.

          • Omega Z

            Average American

            Cold Fusion? Huh,
            Pons and Fleischmann? Is that a new rock group or a Las Vegas Magic act.

            Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury,
            This is Corporate America trying to take advantage of this poor old man.
            What say yee-?

          • US_Citizen71

            The magic words multi-billion dollar investment group is trying to fleece this hard working old man. He was force to work 16 hours a day for a year straight to please the corporate masters, who now want to take his invention away from him. In Florida they may want to hang the members of IH by the end of the trial.

          • SG

            As an American myself, sad but true. I actually think Mr. Rossi makes for a sympathetic plaintiff in the eyes of a jury. Big money steals invention from man who has devoted his life to bringing a promising energy source to the world.

          • psi2u2

            I agree that this choice resonates with a feeling of righteous indignation on Rossi’s part that seems hardly possible if he is not telling the more accurate story of what happened than IH is.

      • Ged

        And now it got reclassified to a patent case and given to another judge, however that new judge is still rather famous and was once considered for the Supreme Court (and is, oddly, not a patent judge). A jury trial will help.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Where is the 1mw reactor?

    • psi2u2

      Thank you, Mats. This is encouraging.

  • Mats002

    I like (who could of course be an actor, playing his part in a scam…)

    Mats you are not 100.0% certain of ‘Rossi says’?

    • Ged

      Looks like Rossi will have a lot of actor pay checks to cut!

    • In this case it was not Rossi who said. And the actor thing was just to give a hint on what a fraud hypothesis implies. Personally, I find it extremely hard to believe.

      • Bob Tivnan

        I agree Mats. Doesn’t this all boil down to, who is lying? It’s either Rossi or IH. There is no middle ground here. It seems unrealistic that Rossi could be weaving such an enormous web lies. He would have to be a brilliant psychopath. It seems much more likely that the self-described altruistic VC is the bad guy in this drama. Just my 2 cents.

      • Barbierir

        All the anti-Rossi trolls sound more and more as conspiracy theorists

        • Bob Tivnan

          When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth- Sherlock Holmes. It does seem improbable that Rossi is telling the truth given his history and the “too good to be true” nature of the E-Cat. On the other hand, it seems impossible that anybody could be this good at pulling the wool over our collective eyes. We shall see.

  • Alan DeAngelis
    • Alan DeAngelis

      How it’s made. Fish food.
      http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x33vn65

      • Ged

        Now we know what they needed that steam for!

    • Alan DeAngelis
      • Ged

        What a lucrative field for the E-cat to dive into.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          And I would assume that the lawyers would be happier. Start out with fish food before moving on to food for humans.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            And if they aren’t making their fish food with E-Cats maybe they should.

    • US_Citizen71
      • LarryJ

        Since the ERV report might affect the juries perception is it not possible that we won’t see the ERV’s report for a year or two until the trial begins and maybe not even then until after it concludes.

      • Actually (just) feasible – JMC Aquatics operate out of a big tin warehouse on an industrial estate, of the type usually associated with plastics companies, DIY chains, flat-pack outlets and similar. There are a hundred or more tanks out on display, and warm rooms up and down the sides where tropical fish are bred in large numbers. The retail part of the warehouse is always warm inside, and their electricity bills must be immense.

        However none of this would square with the idea of setting up a small version of what is used in the UK, especially to test the 1MW e-cat.

        • US_Citizen71

          I doubt they setup a complete factory line myself, but a process or two that turns out something they could sell to another company I think is feasible.

      • Warthog

        Not unreasonable at all. That is precisely what “pilot plants” are for. As to the smell, I suggest taking some soap to your upper lip.

  • psi2u2

    Perfect, actually.

  • US_Citizen71

    Proof and truth sometimes have little to do with court cases in Florida, just ask Nancy Grace. ; )

  • nammfats

    JM Chemical Products is Johnson Matthey Chemical Products.

    • wpj

      Yes, we have been through all of this over and over again (I was the one who first suggested them) yet Mats Lewan says not.

      I have been through the directory of UK chemical companies this morning and, unfortunately, they are still the only credible option.

  • wpj

    Use of small quantities isn’t that problematic, though the stench is a pain. I’m sure that anyone using car fillers would recognise it (and someone filling cracks in marble!).

    I think the unit was for a fine or performance chemical rather than some dirt cheap bulk. It looks like they were setting this unit up in the factory anyway and the meeting persuaded them to try out the ecat rather than gas for the heating source.

    What interests me most is the three name changes to get away from “chemical” being in there. Clearly the wanted to hide themselves.

  • Sandy

    The British customer might be a company that manufactures steam-powered room heaters; like these…
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-competitive-price-sauna-room_1966285065.html

    It should not have taken a year to figure out that the E-Cat is an efficient means of producing steam to operate a steam-powered room heater.

    There are thousands of older buildings in the northeastern United States that have steam distribution systems and steam-powered heat radiators. Why are thousands of E-Cats not installed in those buildings? The delays are looking very suspicious.