Rossi Says 'Brake' Now Removed, Production Will Be Accelerated

If it hasn’t been apparent to readers here yet, I’ve noticed a distinct change in the kinds of information that Andrea Rossi has been posting on the Journal of Nuclear Physics lately — since various documents were made public in the US District Court handling his lawsuit against Industrial Heat. He’s talking freely about things that previously he would not comment on at all since they have now been made public in the documents submitted to the court; in his mind it seems he is not bound by the license agreement that he claims has been violated.

There are some of these comments on other posts here are ECW, and here is another set of Q&A’s from the JONP that give an indication of his attitudes now.

Jerry Jones
April 8, 2016 at 6:24 AM
Dr Rossi, questions on ECW:

1) Is this legal case going to affect the production of E-Cat X or Quarks or whatever they are called?

AR: NO

2) Is the production and appearance on market delayed? By how much?

AR: it will be accelerated, because they were a brake

3) Does Rossi need new investors and money to get the production started?

AR: no

4) What obstacles other than remaining R&D are there now to get production and sales started?

AR: none, apart, limited to the domestic E-Cats, the safety certification

  • The best thing Rossi could do now is to just bring this device to market as fast as possible.

    If 10 or more totally independent companies bought a plant and report positive, the issue is solved.

    • Hador_NYC

      Count me as someone cheering him on. had I a facility, I’d be talking to him. sadly, i am merely a cog in a corporate wheel, so I can’t help.

    • Jonnyb

      It maybe easier and quicker to produce the small units, just the safety Issue.

  • The best thing Rossi could do now is to just bring this device to market as fast as possible.

    If 10 or more totally independent companies bought a plant and report positive, the issue is solved.

    • Hador_NYC

      Count me as someone cheering him on. had I a facility, I’d be talking to him. sadly, i am merely a cog in a corporate wheel, so I can’t help.

    • Jonnyb

      It maybe easier and quicker to produce the small units, just the safety Issue.

  • roseland67

    AR seems to be suggesting that there will be an Ecat in some type of configuration on the market in 2016?
    Still hoping to see fuel/ash analysis in report.

  • Sylvie Cemoi

    I think Industrial Heat is going to mass produce a LENR device very soon.
    It’s a good move from Andrea Rossi to accelerate things.
    We’ll see who is the first one to mass produce.

  • Old_Skeptical

    I’d be interested to know the the requirements and performance characteristics of the units he is anticipating to get into production. Just as Microsoft makes a fair amount of information available to developers before a new release of windows to help accelerate market adoption, Rossi should consider releasing most of the parameters of performance and requirements for integration into a secondary piece of equipment.

    • artefact

      He said that he probably will tell us more in June.

      • Brokeeper

        May be accelerated.

  • Michel Vandenberghe

    Manufacturing is only one topic among many to make a Market…..

  • Tom59

    Giving away all his IP rights and publish all his secrets would best kickstart this tech and make AR immortal.

  • Tom59

    Giving away all his IP rights and publish all his secrets would best kickstart this tech and make AR immortal.

  • Jonnyb

    This is great news let us hope it is true and Andrea and team have the backing to produce the E-Cat series.

  • LuFong

    What strange to me is that IH holds really good IP cards. They get the bigger part of the market, any improvements Rossi makes, improvements they make, and first dibs at buying licneses from other territories.

    If Rossi’s technology works then the $89M they need to pay is a bargain. The only reason they would not want to pay this is if they are inherently dishonest and are trying to steal the technology or they’ve identified a better technology (now or in the near future) rendering Rossi’s technology worthless to them. Both of these in some combination could come into play.

    On the other hand if Rossi’s technology doesn’t work then what IH is doing makes perfect sense if you allow for IH being incredibly stupid (debatable). Rossi has no choice but to counterattack and press on because if he doesn’t he is dead given IH’s refusal to back Rossi’s technology. At the very least might be able to collect some or all of the $89M owned him and generate more income.

    • passerby

      Surely there is a way to verify if the people behind IH have demonstrated this business strategy in the past. Darden is responsible for starting hundreds of companies, many of which dealt with IP when hiring scientists to develop tech. How did they treat these people?

      • C. Kirk

        Brownfield remediation is Darden’s/Cherokee speciality which is a lot different than what he is investing in now (LENR startups)

    • Ged

      Except counterattacking opens up court exposure to fraud, which is a criminal offense. In the latter scenario, Rossi would have to not realize he’s committing suicide by doing that, rather than slinking off quietly to find other investors.

      • LuFong

        Some people think the best defense is offense. It’s a risk for sure but if Rossi does nothing he is dead now versus really dead years later.

        • Ged

          I dunno… perhaps he would think that. But it’s vastly easier to kick the can down the road while keeping to the shadows and just making allegations to confuse matters; while a court case of fraud makes him dead to everyone immediately, and particularly as he would lose that case and be jailed by the American system. He’d definitely be done and cooked for good.

          • LuFong

            I expect this court case to last years. Rossi can of course preempt everything by permitting an independent and rigorous verification of his technology. He says he plans to do this by massively producing a product. The clock is ticking for him one way or another.

            I put a lot of faith in the actions and words of IH and have said that IH’s actions after this test is more important to me than the ERV report. The fact that the ERV is a Rossi associate supports this position even more. Having Rossi pick “a customer of IH” and having him lie throughout this affair (1st plant sold to the military etc) doesn’t help either.

            I haven’t decided where I stand–we need to hear IH’s side of the story including their evidence. I just tried to lay out the big picture as I see it.

          • Ged

            Understandably.

            Again though, IH also picked Penon, and I don’t know where the idea he’s an associate of Rossi’s (in a negative sense) comes in, since IH picked Penon years ago with the 24 hour test, too. IH approved the protocols, and so forth. Unless those protocols changed and IH didn’t approve the changes–that would be an interesting wrinkle. IH dragged its feet about a customer, but Rossi didn’t create the customer, someone else did, and there’s an attorney with his reputation on the line acting between these forces.

            I dunno, it’s all so messed up. It’s irrational for Rossi, if he was scamming, to file a suit, as it doesn’t matter if it takes years for a full resolution (and it actually won’t take that long, but only so if one considers appeals), the act of filing the suit will very rapidly cause discovery and counter suits (as we are seeing and living through right now).

            It’s also irrational for IH to say it doesn’t work when they raised so many, many millions from others claiming it did. They made Lugano, they had all these tests run. They were being paid by the customer, so they were making money, etc.

            Well, we’ll know for sure the truth of all this. If Rossi’s filing is unsubstantiated, then IH will blow it to pieces and Rossi will be countered for fraud in a matter of weeks, not years, and would have done himself in.

          • Steve Savage

            So Either Rossi is a scammer
            or
            IH got too greedy
            There is 0 … absolutely none … No evidence of a scam .. anywhere in this story on Rossi’s side of things.
            This is IH getting too greedy …. Only thing that make any sense to me…

          • Sanjeev

            I did some digging on Penon and it appears that he is testing E-Cats since the beginning. The first instance I found is Rossi appointing him as in charge of security certificate process (SGS certificate). He did the tests of hot cat for the “military customer”. He did the 24 hr test (twice) and finally the 1 year test.
            So it all depends on how you define an “associate”. As soon as you pay someone to do some work, he becomes an associate.

            I remember that Penon produced a very unprofessional report on 1MW plant test and there was some issue that he did not even sign it. So I guess appointing Penon again for the 1 year test was not Rossi’s best decision. Strangely IH had no problems with any of this.

          • Frank Acland

            Penon was not the person who presided over the October 2011 1MW plant test, that was Domenico Fioravante.

          • Sanjeev

            Thanks Frank.
            Probably you remember more about Penon. Any past connections with Rossi?

          • Frank Acland

            He did this test in 2012 of the first Hot Cat. https://www.scribd.com/doc/105322688/Penon4-1

            We now know that he did the Validation test for IH of the E-Cat Plant in Ferrara Italy which was the first step in Rossi getting paid for his license withe IH.

          • artefact

            I think to remember he came suddenly to make the “penon” report which was the beginning of the tests with IH.

          • Anon2012_2014

            I think Rossi picked Penon and Industrial Heat agreed. After that first test, there may have been a disagreement in continuing with Penon as the ERV. But the contract states that they keep the old ERV if the parties don’t agree.

            I want to see the validation report. I am afraid that Penon has another Wet Steam like result based on the heat of vaporization of water. They have been expanding a lot of steam. Assuming flowing 0.45 liters per second and a 1600:1 expansion ratio, they would have been exhausting 720 liters per second of steam = 0.72 m^3/second. Say the chimney was one foot = 0.305 m in diameter, it would have an exit velocity of 0.72/.0731 = 10 m/s, or 36 km/hr. I guess its possible. What about boiler scale? Looks like 5 mg/L is typical for moderately hard water. They need to remove 200 grams a day of minerals. I guess it is possible to do that too.

            I just want to see the report on the rig to see if there are sufficient holes that it cannot be validated at the minimum COP level. I find it hard to believe that if Rossi had a working machine that IH could not validate at Rossi’s COP level of 4, or even the level of 2.6 minimum level (which would reduce the payment to 2.6/6*90mm=$39 mm.

            I have read here that the Lugano COP when properly adjusted for emmissivity was 1.7. I am afraid that is what IH replicated. Hence, they would claim not to be liable for the additional payment.

            Finally, a machine with a COP of 1.7, while a physics breakthrough, is probably not worth $1.5 mm each, particularly when it still requires 24×7 skilled technicians to operate it. Commercial electricity in the US 10.74 cents/kWh, so that the savings is 10.71-10.74/1.7=4.4 cents/kWh. For one year at 1 MW that savings is $385K/year if you used electricity to generate heat, but why not just install natural gas at $7/mcf = 2.39 cents/kWh ??? The same heat would cost only $210K/year. Add in the cost of a 24×7 skilled technician, and the need to change out the elements and remove scale, the COP 1.7 E-Cat doesn’t make economic sense.

            Hence, IH may have had machine that works but no one would pay $1.5 mm/year. Worse, if the electricity was generated using a Rankine cycle plant with 50% efficiency, it cost more carbon to heat your shop.

            We need to see the results of the report.

          • Ged

            We very much need to see that report, indeed. IH built the majority of the 1 MW plant themselves, as their lead tech guy has stated, so I am sure they know a lot of these details very intimately. Hopefully they’ll share some info when they file their defense.

          • SG

            It is possible, but I think improbable for the following reasons. Remember the Lugano testers purposely did not enable the self-sustain mode (a mistake in my opinion) because they thought it would be easier to test that way.

            Also, the steam conjecture was put to bed by the majority. Only the hold-outs like Mary Yugo still felt there was an issue. All of the scientists who were present and involved in the early tests dismissed the steam quality hypothesis.

            In addition, the steam issue was taken out of the equation altogether in subsequent tests that involved a dual-circuit configuration (one circuit for the hot water/steam, a heat-exchanger, and another circuit for the measured heat in a non-gaseous state).

            Finally, I can understand believing that steam quality might cause the results to be off by a factor of 2 or 3, but a factor of 50? Really?

          • Anon2012_2014

            I think the contract attempts to take steam quality out of the equation by stipulated that the temperature of the steam must be ABOVE 100C.

            The 50x it says “briefly”. I assume that the ERV report is going to say ~6X continuous.

            The steam report was pre-Lugano, but was a Bologna test with Levi. Lugano was my recollect a hot-cat test with no steam only radiation. I believe that some are claiming the emissivity assumed could have made the report off by a factor of 4ish. Look for a claim like this when IH files their “Answer” to the “Complaint”.

          • SG

            We certainly need clarification on the multiplier. The complaint references the 50x COP in various vague ways. The ERV report will help, but based on IH’s PRish statement, they are going to dispute the findings in the ERV.

          • US_Citizen71

            Wet or dry steam doesn’t really matter in a closed loop system only the total heat content being moved. More will come out about the measurements and what the steam was used for you can count on it.

          • Anon2012_2014

            The heat exchanger/condenser for the closed loop would be quite large. 1 MW if it was a diesel engine that was 25% efficient would be a 250 kW engine or about 330 HP. We are not just talking about getting rid of the heat, but condensing. Where is the condenser unit? Doesn’t it need quite a large external radiator with a lot of air flow, and do we have a secondary coolant circuit between the primary (the experiment steam) and the outside. How are all these flows, temperatures, and potential leaks measured. I think it is cheaper to demineralize and then exhaust the steam outside.

          • US_Citizen71

            Not if the energy is being used in a process or by a machine. The customer could have been running a laundry for all we know and heating water or drying clothes would dissipate the heat no problem. Until otherwise proven there is no reason to assume that the steam wasn’t being used for some time of work.

          • US_Citizen71

            Penon is as much IH’s associate as Rossi’s he has been involved with both for the same length of time, we just didn’t know that until the lawsuit.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Or they simply don’t want the technology to get out.

      • LuFong

        While I recognize this as a possibility, I put the chances of these kinds of conspiracies as extremely low.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Ok, better term is control and slow down the adoption of LENR.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Agree, but slow down and control adoption is a reasonable concept here.

    • timycelyn

      Or this is about access to the quark (although I read in these threads they should already have that as per the contract). If they do not have access and it’s as good as we have been reading

      1. They won’t want to pay $89m for a piece of history
      2. This is a way to try and force him to give them the access they feel they should have.

      We need more information, much more. At the moment there can be as many theories about what has precipitated this and what IH is up to, as there are theories about why the ‘Rossi Effect’ works…

      • LuFong

        They do per the agreement and Rossi prior to the agreement confirmed it multiple times. Maybe Brillouin has a better solution?

        I agree on the information. I want to see the ERV report and hear what IH says about their replication attempts and Rossi’s actions.

    • wpj

      Sorry, but Rossi has obtained $11.5m for verified results, IH $260m on those results (f the Chinese figure is correct) so where is the fraud if the technology does not work?

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I have been following this story closely since 2012. I am hopeful that Rossi’s tech is valid, but I wanted to pipe in here because of the break with Industrial Heat.

    When it was first discovered that IH had partnered with Rossi, it was extraordinarily bracing. Why would such a company as IH be willing to risk so much if they hadn’t validated the tech? And also, it supported what Rossi had claimed, about having made a partnership with an important American company. And it shortly preceded the release of the second 3rd party test, which was all positive, followed afterwards by Parkhamov, and other developments.

    It was looking very positive – and IH was a big part of that.

    But the break with IH, and the lawsuit, are troubling. “Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results … without success.”

    As far as we know, Industrial Heat has had as much detailed, hands-on access to the e-cat and its data, as anyone but Rossi himself over these years. Then again, obviously they may also have a gigantic financial stake in robbing Rossi of his tech (and they just registered a new patent in the UK.)

    It all leaves the outside observer in a complicated spot. Do we give up hope on Rossi, or do we hang on.

    Out in the wide, angry world, partisans can yell and deride. But for me, (1) I don’t really know what to think, and (2) what I think doesn’t change anything. It’s like having an opinion about what celebrity should win a custody battle.

    I think this is still a wildly fascinating story. And frankly, (wisely or not) Rossi has more credibility to me than IH. But I can respect people carrying doubts.

    • SG

      I’ve followed cold fusion since the fateful announcement in 1989, and in particular, since Mr. Rossi’s first public demo in 2011. Since 2011, I’ve reviewed and assimilated information on the topic nearly every day. I’ve read Matt’s book An Impossible Invention. I’ve dug deep into Mr. Rossi’s history. I’ve carefully observed and listened to Mr. Darden’s words and speeches. I’ve reviewed many scientific papers posted on lenr-canr.org and elsewhere. I’ve been a contributor on e-catworld.com and other forums for years.

      And my gut goes with Mr. Rossi on this. IH will have their side of the story, which will also be aired in a court of law. Mr. Rossi probably made some missteps and could have had a tighter contract. But at the end of the day, Mr. Rossi is probably the Tesla, and IH is probably the Westinghouse.

      • Steve Savage

        SG – My experience and following has been very much along the same lines as yours. I concur with your opinion.

        • psi2u2

          So far, I have to agree. Maybe it is just wishful thinking. This scenario is unfortunate in many ways, but there are still way too many contradictions in the alternative scenario.

      • deleo77

        It’s just too difficult to say at this point. We need to see the ERV report and IH’s defense. Everything we have read about Darden suggests he is a standup guy. Rossi has had issues in the past with misstatements and embellishments. Of course I hope Rossi has the real deal but this week has been a real blow to Rossi and LENR in general.

      • artefact

        Same 🙂

      • Mike Ivanov

        You do not need “guts”, just logic. Firstly, every sceptics say “AR is scam, no extra heat whatsoever”. Now, listen to them: sure, there is an extra heat, but not in “industrial amount”. Excuse me, but there is huge difference. One thing is old classic perppettum mobile scam and quite another – “industrial amount” of heat. Effect does exists, everything else is about right technology, money and business.

    • Ged

      I don’t think anyone studying the facts can fully know what to think. Not till more details come out, and I would say definitely not till IH files their defense. And maybe not even then; maybe not till the court rules on the validity of IH’s defense and Rossi’s suit.

      Oddly enough, Rossi has the most consistency in this matter right now, while IH’s actions and statements are extremely self contradictory. IH is also the one who has been raking in 10s of millions in this subject, not Rossi. So… as it stands -right now- (and this could change on a dime at any time), IH look like they were defrauding investors if Rossi’s tech didn’t work, as they presented it to others as having been validated by them. It’s hard, at the moment, to see how IH can get out of this without being the bad guys; but again, one never knows when things are this stir crazy, and that’s why I don’t know what to think either, and we need to wait till the case matures and we get a lot more information on both sides.

      • Stephen Taylor

        I think you are right GED. Before the lawsuit we just had to wait and hope. Now we get to be entertained while we wait and hope. It is going to make for more great books to written about this drama.

      • snowvoardphil

        What do you mean by ”has been raking in 10s of milions…” ?

        If by so you mean they a running away with many investors money, investement firms don’t do this. They sell opportunities assoiated with some risks and they payoff or don’t payoff wheter or not the opportunity pays off.

        • Ged

          Exactly. So if they knew it wasn’t going to pay off, they get to keep the 50-60 million Woodford invested, let alone all the Chinese and other unknown investors have given them.

      • Old_Skeptical

        I think if I were an investor in IH or Cherokee, I’d be lining up my lawsuit against them if they truly have never been able to reproduce any excess energy from the E-cat despite previous reports to the contrary. I can’t believe Rossi has been able to pull off a ‘Bernie Madoff’ through so many demonstrations.

    • TomR

      Everyone should remember that IH has evidently given Rossi’s IP to 1 or 2 of Rossi’s competitors. Everything that Rossi has done makes good sense to me.

      • Anon2012_2014

        “Everyone should remember that IH has evidently given Rossi’s IP to 1 or 2 of Rossi’s competitors.”

        Everyone should remember that there is no public evidence of IH giving any confidential IP to competitors. Only Rossi’s musings on JONP that are unsubstantiated; and the Legal Complaint of only one side that by design exaggerates. This will be decided in a court of law, not by the readers of E-Cat World or JONP.

        In this type of commercial dispute, it is truly innocent until proven guilty.

  • Shiv

    Many decades ago, Morgan, the banker used strong arm tactics against Westinghouse.
    Ih is doing same to Rossi.
    We need to back Rossi.
    Darden should be sent to prison.
    This is daylight robbery.

    • snowvoardphil

      I don’t see any roberry here. There just an investor that’s not willing to put anymore money in this thing. They already did put in 11.5 M. that they will most likely not recup. Saying that IH as sold some part of the technologie seem (for now) pure speculation.

      Nobody’s seen the ERV report (apart from the paying parties) so who knows what the whole thing is worth ? 11.5M for a report that would not be credible, seems a large price to pay for such a paper.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I much agree that the bankers and worlds elites took Westinghouse away – the banks simply called in their loans.
      I mean, why allow a good man like Westinghouse to control electricity?

      The resulting merged company of Westinghouse and Edison Electric of course was General Electric

      Thomas Edison having lost the DC vs AC battle stated he would never step food in any factory owned by GE – clearly Edison was a bitter man.

      On the other hand, George Westinghouse was a good man. He was the first to give half Saturdays off to employees. George also built nice homes for factory workers, and any worker inquired in his factory was able to stay at those homes for free.

      Westinghouse also paid very fair and lucrative licensing and patient fees to Tesla.

      As a result of the above, many industrialists had a HUGE dislike for George, since he was a fair man and other companies worried they would have to follow Westinghouse example of how to treat workers.

      Westinghouse was a good man, whereas Thomas Edison was a real snake.

      The idea floated by Darden that the eat not been proven is a HUGE and bold statement.

      It is either very true, or very false.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • snowvoardphil

        I see no problem with an investing bank to call in their loans when they feel investement for a particular service or product is not worth the risk. A bank can verry well be wrong in pulling out it’s investement money but they have poeple dedicated to evaluate the possibilities.

        What makes Westinghouse look like a good man, is actually the choice he made to offer better work condition to keep his workers productive and interrested in continuing their hard work.

  • e-dog

    Now is Roosi’s chance to show us a proper working live demo of his e-cats, explain how it works and how efficient it is. A bit of open science, he already has the patents? Get real and he will pick up a whole bunch of potential licencees.. the Chinese will be falling over themselves to pump out millions of the little buggers. He just needs to do straight forward solid business, accept some losses and get to market asap, release some control and quit the micro managing. The whole licencing deal is dodgy, just take a royalty from who ever makes and sells an e-cat… very simple. Hes going to court anyway, seems pretty experienced at court related matters, he can spend his days tinkering with his ecats and suiting companies that dont pay him royalties on the ecats they make and sell… works well for others…

  • artefact

    What if IH goes to market worldwide without respecting the former territory an AR wins in court (after some years)?
    I think they just have to pay Rossi some billions but at the same time they made much more money by selling the devices. Or how would that be?

  • artefact

    What if IH goes to market worldwide without respecting the former territory an AR wins in court (after some years)?
    I think they just have to pay Rossi some billions but at the same time they made much more money by selling the devices. Or how would that be?

    • snowvoardphil

      This would still be a good scenario for LENR’s cause, at last we’d see the technology offered on the market. I don’t think we should care who gets the bilions.

      Don’t get me wrong, Rossi worked hard and he (possibly) did deserve the 11.5M money he got paid, hopefully for him (if the technology is real) he’ll be able to make the legal case that he should be entitled to more.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I am of the following opinion now.

    LiAlH4, Ni and free Li should not be mixed together in the reactor.

    In my opinion LiAlH4 serves only as a Hydrogen source first to Hydrogenate the Nickel before the Li Melts, then to make the Li on the surface of the Ni LiH.

    The reversible reaction

    2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2 (R3)

    Allows the release and capture of H2 at will.

    The primary reaction is pure Piantelli Ni+H – the secondary reaction is 1H + 7Li > 2 X 4He

    Our experiments so far have had all three reactants mixed together – and in this instance, as I calculated last year – the Al can play a role but it is in the way 27Al is a much bigger target than 7Li and in time it would destroy the (R3) reaction – that which enables the control of H2 in the cell since the Al would be transmuted and loose its function and the products are in the way.

    The big yield is from 1H + 7Li > 2 X 4He, so you want nothing in its way.

    We, and other replicators may have seen low excess heat due to mixing everything together.

    I then had the inspiration that we might have mixed in a specific order in GS 5.2 – so I asked which order the powder was mixed in GS 5.2. Alan seems to recall the free lithium was added first – this is as I suspected and would be not ideal – but advantageous as per the above hypothesis.

    So, the suggestion is to, as a half way house, mix and pestle mortar the free lithium / Ni together before adding the LiAlH4 – or add mixed & ground Ni+Li to the cell first and drop the LiAlH4 in afterwards – even as a “pellet” or after a piece of alumina felt.

    This is consistent with my calculations based on Piantelli theory, Rossi’s 2012 interview with Ruby Carat and his patent and the claimed critical reversible reaction. It is also consistent with the implications of Ikegami, Unified Gravity Corporation and on the electron screening of molten LiH.

    http://unifiedgravity.com/styled-10/

    This is very easy to test for replicators.

    By having LiAlH4 in a different heated part of the reactor, it allows control of

    2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2 (R3)

    which means you can seal it up and control the H2 Pressure

    by varying the temperature of the Ni+LiH zone (above LiH breakdown) and LiH Al zone temperature you can control the ratio of H in LiH to enable molten LiH / Li on the Nickel at far lower temperature Li H liquid plasma.

    • artefact

      Rossi also talked of a pellet for additional hydrogen. Only later we knew it was LiAlH4.
      The only reference I could find quickly is mentioned here:
      http://freeenergytruth.com/cold-fusion-are-we-there-yet/
      and
      http://pesn.com/2012/06/15/9602111_600_Celsius–The_Accelerating_Evolution_of_Andrea_Rossis_E-Cat/
      (search for pellet)

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes – That is part of my thinking

        • Stephen Taylor

          Bob, do you know when GS5.3 will go “live”? Will hugnetlab be used or something else?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The calibration is being set into the PID now – will be on HUGNet LIVE

          • wannabe_lenr_chef

            So Bob, did you make the trip out west to observe / participate in the GS5.3 test?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, thanks to donations, we are tooled up and have a strong team here – the most west I have ever been!

            I also wanted to escort and ensure that key pieces of equipment arrived and that the process could be documented in extreme detail with videos.

            Thanks to those that made it possible.

          • Ged

            “we are tooled up and have a strong team here”

            How very Rossi-esque ;). Good luck guys, so glad to see such big matters progressing!

          • US_Citizen71

            When is the test tentatively scheduled to begin?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Monday now.

            I have to set up the Optris today – gonna use the calibrations to check its functions.

          • Ged

            Is this new GS using your two zone approach? I’m excited to see what that idea will yield.

          • Bob Greenyer

            No – this is an exact replication – the two zone would be useful progression after we show we can replicate.

        • wpj

          LAH is available in pellets, but not much good for us chemists.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is conceivable he used these – there was suggestions he did in the past and this is all consistent with my new thinking

          • wpj

            Not with Lugano, though; these things are about 1g each.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think in Lugano – as an amendment to my fuel prep video, in light of this new hypothesis, that he could have first done the Li + H + Ni and CO2 passivated and seperately added LiAlH4 – this would have been somewhere between the performance of not SSM E-Cat and at 2 zone more controlled system – then again – our data from Dog Bone Week highlighted the errors made by the Lugano team in emissivity measurements and this made the Lugano COP MUCH closer to that reported by us and others in similar GS type experiments (less than 1.7).

          • wpj

            If Al is a problem, why not use the high order hydride, which is used for hydrogen storage (hexahydride)? Only one Al in there.

      • Bob Greenyer

        https://youtu.be/9fef8sHD34M?t=18m1s

        you will need to watch 1min40s only.

    • Sanjeev

      What do you think about the requirement of an HV electric field inside the reactor?
      https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2798-Rossi-effect-and-apparatus-to-produce-heat-with-high-efficiency/
      This latest provisional patent application by Rossi (dug up by Ecco) mentions it very clearly. Is it a must?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have been suggesting this as a mechanism for control and SSM (you could have a fixed or alternating field with a capacitor and circuit even when unplugged from the mains).

        I suggested this in my last video as a means to accelerate electrons and H- in one direction and Protons and Alphas in the other.

        • Gerrit

          When I find myself in times of trouble, MFMP comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, let it be. 🙂

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have a lot more videos to do – but it seams that people are just starting to dig into the ones I have already done, at the moment I am focussed with other team members for the next 3 weeks trying to replicate GS 5.2. I will start producing the live document for the experiment and step by step videos.

            Later, I will push out more videos explaining other aspects.

      • US_Citizen71

        So how would you create such a field? Two electrodes one on either side of the reactor attached to something like a sodium vapor light ballast?

        • Bob Greenyer

          Keep pressure in reactor low – residual H2 – then have any kind of differential voltage.

          This is the foundation of the next video I want to make

        • Sanjeev

          Any DC HV power supply with enough voltage to accelerate electrons to 100KeV.

      • lucasnw

        This is what I’m curious about too, after reading that. And about the Holmid Reactor, claimed COP ~ 20.
        Much easier to deal with temperatures at 600C than 1500C, and high voltage is simple. Rossi and others have also mentioned RF as a required or helpful component.

        Bob, do you have any ideas about a reactor setup like this? Seems like you could just make it out of fused silica and capture tungsten electrodes. Anxious to get tinkering.

    • JiW

      “The big yield is from 1H + 7Li > 2 X 4He, so you want nothing in its way.

      We, and other replicators may have seen low excess heat due to mixing everything together.”

      Maybe you don’t want Li on the surface of Ni at all, just very near, and “nothing” in between?

      Piantelli’s patent, pdf pages 46-47 below, has the secondary material separated but within close distance from the primary material:
      https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Attachment/281-patent-piantelli-grant-text-pdf/

      • JiW

        Piantelli’s separation of Li-material (28) from Ni+H surface structure. Mixed stuff might create just small random areas with right conditions, hence only small random results?

      • Jag bara undrar?

        Put the secondary material around (in small “grains”) the other material…

        • JiW

          What if the melting point of these grains of secondary material is lower than the operating temperature of the device? Piantelli’s patent mentions an alloy of metals comprising of the secondary material (Li/Bo) and a structural metal (Fe, Ni, or combination of Fe/Ni). Small grains of such alloy with high enough melting point?

    • Andreas Moraitis

      It has been suspected that the two cells in the drawing below might have been intended to contain different ingredients. Their walls could certainly be permeable to hydrogen. Maybe this design is actually the original “cat-mouse” concept:

      http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Rossipatent.jpg

      • Bob Greenyer

        If so, I would suggest the following.

        LiAlH4 in one and either Ni+Li in other or prepared Ni+H+Li in the other.

        By nickel – I mean – correct cluster size domain/mophology/phase. NO OXYGEN and pre-hydrided.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Why not. My guess was at that time that one cell was for lithium-, the other one for potassium-based fuel, to cover two different temperature ranges.

    • Bob Matulis

      Hi Bob, what is the status of your replication of the exciting February results (gamma rays etc) ty

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Bob: Is there some way you can keep all of this away from IH? (:

      • Bob Greenyer

        We do what we do. We are testing claims and learning.

  • giovanniontheweb

    Maybe IH driver you see behind the windshield is just a picture

  • giovanniontheweb

    Maybe IH driver you see behind the windshield is just a picture

  • Gerrit

    I have not enough time to make up my mind on all of this. I planned to open up a bottle of champagne, instead I’ve opened a bag of popcorn.

    • artefact

      Bon appétit!

    • Bob Greenyer

      it is not the destination but the journey

      • wpj

        “Got to be the going, not the getting there, that’s good” Greyhound, Harry Chapin, 1970s

      • Gerrit

        The bag of popcorn is half empty or it’s half full.

        • Mats002

          Popcorn with water is nice.

        • NCkhawk

          Comparing the backgrounds or Godes, McKubre and Darden to Rossi is not a legitimate endeavor. None of those three gents are known for playing games.

          • SG

            Which is all the more shocking why they are giving in to what appears to be PR firm statements that come across as entirely inconsistent with what is known by the LENR community for the past three years.

          • DrD

            Guys, as upsetting as this all is, I think it will not belong before the truth is unavoidable and opposition haven’t a leg to stand on. I just hope AR has all his bases covered, securely.

          • MasterBlaster7

            “I just hope AR has all his bases covered, securely.”….the good news is that Rossi tactically launched this law suit 5 days after non-payment of the 89 million putting IH in breach; and there are many points and claims in the law suit. I think that Rossi is on the ball with how to handle this. He has learned a lot of legal lessons over the years.

          • C. Kirk

            Please explain “known for playing games” Are you again insuinaing that Dr. Rossi is a fraud? IMO filing a $89M lawsuit is stupid unless you “have the goods”

          • Omega Z

            While I have always given Darden the benefit of the Doubt(Because of Rossi) I have always had certain reservations about him.

            Me thinks him dost “profess” to much about doing good for the people. These people usually do “VERY” much good for their own bank account.

            I have more regards for the professed sinner then the professed saint because I feel the saint shouldn’t need to profess anything. Their work should speak for itself.
            ——————————————-
            Robert Godes, He plays “THE” game. His recent post here at ECW is the telltale of that. But he is as much a victim to the powers at work as Rossi and a few others are.
            ——————————————-
            Michael McKubre, Simply a victim of circumstance caught in the crossfire.

  • Gerrit

    I have not enough time to make up my mind on all of this. I planned to open up a bottle of champagne, instead I’ve opened a bag of popcorn.

    • artefact

      Bon appétit!

    • Bob Greenyer

      it is not the destination but the journey

      • wpj

        “Got to be the going, not the getting there, that’s good” Greyhound, Harry Chapin, 1970s

      • Gerrit

        The bag of popcorn is half empty or it’s half full.

        • Mats002

          Popcorn with water is nice.

  • WayneM

    The big picture (and only one) that matters is the impact of this greedy, covetous, childish squabble on LENR.

    Who cares which party is right or wrong? I am happy it happened.

    If my reading of this breach is accurate, there are now two parties that know the full recipe(s) of the various “e-cats”. When only Rossi knew how to build a working LENR device, he could – and did – hold it hostage for years. Now there are two groups that understand how to create the device. Two groups that now apparently hate one another and will probably never collaborate together again.

    Good news! That makes them competitors. Competitors that will gleefully ‘expose’ the other. After years of hanging on every ‘Rossi says’, the tsunami of information has started and will keep on flowing as each party rolls out their plans for LENR everywhere.

    Eventually, when there are real products in the market place, you know the first buyers will be every energy company and more. They will reverse engineer them and the completion just grows and grows. They will all steal from each other and plow millions in more research and development.

    Universities and mainstream scientists will embrace it as their own and openly more it forward more.

    Finally LENR will be recognized and Stanley Pons will get his belated Nobel Prize.

    • clovis ray

      Nope not even close.

    • Omega Z

      I think I’ll invent something and make a lot of money.
      Lets see, It needs to be something that people really want or need or I will make no money.

      I know. I’ll discover a cure for cancer.

      Nope. People will just want me to give it away for free or steal it from me. All my time, efforts and investment will be lost.

      Screw it. I’m going fishing. Let some one else find the cure.
      ————————————————————————-
      While most everyone at ECW would agree, the Nobel Prize is given only to the living…

      • WayneM

        Stanley Pons is alive and well.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Pons

        • Private Citizen

          John Tandberg is long gone

        • Omega Z

          You are of coarse correct. My mistake. I’m just so used to people posting this about Fleischmann. At least he saw the tide turning before he passed.

      • keV

        Perhaps this is the time to change the rule or create a new F&P Prize for new science.

        • clovis ray

          Why,what did they invent,

      • bachcole

        The cure for cancer usually can’t be given away, even to you because you won’t believe it because it is not sanctioned by the cancer establishment/mafia. It suffers from marginalization much worse than cold fusion. Even if I told you right here and right now, you would not believe it. So I can’t even give it away.

    • Frechette

      The Nobel Prize is not awarded posthumously in case you did not know.

    • bachcole

      Nice.

  • akupaku

    Hehe, I see Rossi answered my questions! Thanks Jerry Jones for putting them up to him.

    Sounds pretty good but I sure hope there is more substance than just defiance in his answers, that he is capable of pulling it off. I guess it is useless to ask for more details at this stage. Just go for it Signore Rossi but keep an eye on your back and flanks!

  • Mike Henderson

    Safety certification: In 350 days, the 1 MW plant released the equivalent of 7.2kT of TNT. Who certifies that? Underwriter Labs? Department of Energy? Department of Defense? NASA?

    • Stephen Taylor

      I dunno, who certifies a boiler? If there is no toxic fuel or waste and no radiation it’s just a boiler.

      • Omega Z

        Boiler’s require certification as if poorly designed and built can lead to them exploding under pressure.

        • Ged

          The Mythbuster’s episode on household water heaters rocketing through roofs was eye opening. When water gets pressurized, it can do amazing, jaw dropping feats.

        • Brent Buckner

          I read Stephen Taylor as providing an answer to Mike Henderson’s question, and his answer is that the certifying authority would be the one responsible for certifying boilers.

          • Ophelia Rump

            So direct to electricity is UL labs and Good Housekeeping.

            No boiler.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Yes, of course, we were wondering what agency has responsibility. Is it routine business? I think in this case it is somewhat routine.

          • Omega Z

            Standards for Boilers are set by- American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME),
            However, There are certified inspectors available from UL, SGS, (CE) and among many large plumbing outfits. It’s like having an electrical inspection. Merely need to know whom to call. That’s what Google is for…

            By the way, I had to Google ASME because I couldn’t remember what it stood for. It was something I needed to know for a test several decades ago. Seriously. I needed to know it for a test. I never, ever needed to know this again in the real world. However, It kept someone employed giving tests.

          • Yes, certification standards for pressure vessels are written by Standards agencies such as ASME in the ‘States, BSI in the UK, DIN in Germany, and so on. There are a number of them, depending on intended usage, pressure ranges and so forth, and any applicable Standards must be met.

            For plant using electrical power (electric boilers) there are similarly complex electrical Standards, and a whole range of ‘Health and Safety Standards, all of which must be met when a plant item is assessed by an inspection company during the actual certification process.

            These are just the basics for industrial use. For domestic use there are even tighter Standards to be met before a product can be released. It’s very unlikely that Rossi could get away with skirting around the power source and simply applying electrical and pressure Standards to a domestic LENR device. Even if some lax inspector was fooled, someone would pick up on power in vs. power out and blow the whistle.

            This would mean new Standards having to be written by the relevant Standards agency – a long, complex, detailed (and expensive) process, requiring very detailed evidence that the innovative principle is safe for use by untrained personnel (the public). Don’t hold your breath.

          • Michael W Wolf

            The municipality that it was to be used in I think.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Yes, maybe county (Dade?) for the permit and facilitated by it being a certified boiler. All evidence of its existence at least.

    • wpj

      Rossi said that there were permits that he had to obtain to conduct the test

  • Mike Henderson

    Safety certification: In 350 days, the 1 MW plant released the equivalent of 7.2kT of TNT. Who certifies that? Underwriter Labs? Department of Energy? Department of Defense? NASA?

    • Stephen Taylor

      I dunno, who certifies a boiler? If there is no toxic fuel or waste and no radiation it’s just a boiler.

      • Omega Z

        Boiler’s require certification as if poorly designed and built can lead to them exploding under pressure.

        • Ged

          The Mythbuster’s episode on household water heaters rocketing through roofs was eye opening. When water gets pressurized, it can do amazing, jaw dropping feats.

        • Brent Buckner

          I read Stephen Taylor as providing an answer to Mike Henderson’s question, and his answer is that the certifying authority would be the one responsible for certifying boilers.

          • Ophelia Rump

            So direct to electricity is UL labs and Good Housekeeping.

            No boiler.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Yes, of course, we were wondering what agency has responsibility. Is it routine business? I think in this case it is somewhat routine.

          • Omega Z

            Standards for Boilers are set by- American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME),
            However, There are certified inspectors available from UL, SGS, (CE) and among many large plumbing outfits. It’s like having an electrical inspection. Merely need to know whom to call. That’s what Google is for…

            By the way, I had to Google ASME because I couldn’t remember what it stood for. It was something I needed to know for a test several decades ago. Seriously. I needed to know it for a test. I never, ever needed to know this again in the real world. However, It kept someone employed giving tests.

          • Yes, certification standards for pressure vessels are written by Standards agencies such as ASME in the ‘States, BSI in the UK, DIN in Germany, and so on. There are often a number of differing Standards or ‘Codes’ for any given Category, depending on intended usage, pressure ranges and so forth, and all applicable Standards must be met.

            For plant using electrical power (such as electric boilers) there are similarly complex electrical Standards, and for all industrial plant, a whole range of ‘Health and Safety Standards, all of which must be met when a plant item is assessed by an inspection company (UL, TUV etc.) during the actual certification process.

            As an example, below is a list of basic certification requirements for a medium sized fuel cell in the US, in a non-domestic setting (skilled operatives):

            The product must meet or exceed the requirements of:
            – The State Fire and Building Codes
            – NFPA 1 – Uniform Fire Code
            – NFPA 55 – Standard for Storage, Use, and Handling of Compressed Gases
            – NFPA 853 – Standard for the Installation of Stationary Fuel Cell Power Systems
            – NFPA 70 – The National Electric Code (NEC)
            – The International Fire Code (IFC)
            – CSA FC-1 – Standard for Stationary Fuel Cell Power Systems

            These are just the basics for industrial use, and there will also be a long list of Health & Safety stuff on top about relating to possible gas leakage, chemicals in use (each has a Standard for toxicity, handling, disposal etc.), temperature of surfaces, isolation of electrical conductors, dangers of liquid spillage, etc. etc.

            For domestic use there are even tighter Standards to be met before a product can be certified as safe for sale. Rossi couldn’t get away with skirting around the power source and simply applying fire, electrical and pressure Standards only to a domestic LENR device. Even if some lax inspector initially missed it, mandatory electrical efficiency testing would quickly reveal the ‘overunity’ performance, and whistles would be blown.

            This would mean new Standards having to be written by the relevant Standards agency – a long, complex, detailed (and expensive) process, requiring very solid evidence that the innovative principle is safe for use by untrained personnel (the public). This would require thousands of hours of operation under a range of specified test regimes, as well as an unblemished record of industrial field data. In other words, don’t hold your breath.

            The following is a background document describing the factors considered in the development of a Standard for industrial hydrogen fuel cells in the UK, just to give an idea of what is involved in this kind of process (PDF document):

            https://docs.google.com/viewer?docex=1&url=http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr715.pdf

          • Michael W Wolf

            The municipality that it was to be used in I think.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Yes, maybe county (Dade?) for the permit and facilitated by it being a certified boiler. All evidence of its existence at least.

    • wpj

      Rossi said that there were permits that he had to obtain to conduct the test

    • roseland67

      Nobody, it will hopefully be viewed as a simple water heater.
      The release of this for residential use will be many years in the making, assuming of course it works as stated.

      • LarryJ

        If it takes them many years to certify the domestic reactor then they will effectively abandon the next mega industry to other countries. Seems unlikely in my opinion given the US commanding lead at this time. Assuming of course that it works and the industrial market makes the public aware, the pressure to certify would be enormous.

        • HS61AF91

          No need to assume, it works. You’re right other countries can fill the gap. Should IH tie up US entry, awareness will come from abroad.

  • wonderboy

    How many staff does Rossi have working for him?

    Wasn’t he using IH warehouse, IH staff, and IH resources? Does this mean he is starting from scratch?

    • ggooggllee anmeldezwang

      This is only one of the questions to be asked.

      I am so tired to guess what fish is in the muddy water.

      Why does he think, he could sell a product which is a secret up to now, a ghost product which nobody has seen?

      After all that happens now, after disclosure, that Penon was the ERV, after IH’s annoucements, after all the contraditions that we believers have swallowed over the years.

      Do it the only honest way, show Your Ecat-X to the public, in operation and equipped with all nessesary calometry. End the ridiculous secrecy.

      Start pi**ing or leave the pot.

      • Private Citizen

        Show it self-looped (with the claimed COP and direct electricity generation, should be easy) or go home.

      • Andrew

        Or offer a money back guarantee. If business men get the chance to make more money with little risk, they’ll do it.

      • bachcole

        The 2013 Levi test and 2014 Lugano test cannot be dismissed, whether you bothered to read them or not.

  • WayneM

    Has anyone reported a comparison between Rossi’s and IH’s patents to look for discrepancies that reveal the secret ingredients?

  • Bob Greenyer

    Yes, thanks to donations, we are tooled up and have a strong team here – the most west I have ever been!

    I also wanted to escort and ensure that key pieces of equipment arrived and that the process could be documented in extreme detail with videos.

    Thanks to those that made it possible.

    • Ged

      “we are tooled up and have a strong team here”

      How very Rossi-esque ;). Good luck guys, so glad to see such big matters progressing!

  • JiW

    Piantelli’s separation of Li-material (28) from Ni+H surface structure. Mixed stuff might create just small random areas with right conditions, hence only small random results?

  • keV

    How about these purely hypothetical thoughts of mine:
    IH approach Rossi under the disguise of a “caring for the planet” company who are just there to help entrepreneurs create clean energy for a cleaner future – which Rossi falls for. Secretly they also “fund” say a company (I’ll make up on the fly here) called Brilliant who they know have nothing near Rossi’s product. They take Rossi’s secrets and drastically change Brilliant’s tech and file new patents that look as dissimilar as possible to Rossi’s (but have his tech deep down under the hood).

    After the year long test when the good news about the e-cat is about to break and they would have substantiate, pay Rossi and then licence his tech forever limited to the global areas designated by Rossi, instead they disown Rossi saying that his tech never worked and then “hey look at our own completely different “Brilliant” company product that is in no way like Rossi’s (which we told you doesn’t work) but by sheer coincidence just happens to have the same COP”.

    Now if they could get away with that (completely hypothetical) scenario, they could create and sell products without paying any licence fee to Rossi and do it anywhere and everywhere in the world. Trillions of extra dollars to be made here so this is absolutely worth the risk to some big money players for sure who are willing to risk losing the court cases as we are willing to risk a manageable stake on the horses.

    Power = Money = Power.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      You got it. It is being done to many companies and individuals with original IP. There are companies, law firms that do nothing but this, it is called white collar crime, they use the courts, outdated laws, and no or poor regulation. I call it Crony Capitalism. Wall Street brokers knew those AAA bonds they were selling were rotten, those bonds sent our entire economy into a tail spin recession. Did anyone go to jail? Of course not, it is called “white collar crime”.

      • Mats002

        Georgehants have a point in his consistantly message here at ECW.

    • US_Citizen71

      Add to that the fact that Cherokee Darden’s baby has some history of not coming up with the needed money for projects I wonder what really is going on. They left a brownfield site here in Denver as a giant mudhole blight on the area.

      http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13320307

  • enantiomer2000

    So what kind of timelines does Rossi propose and with what volumes? Are we looking at a 2016 commercialization?

    • Bob Michaelson

      Rossi says that he is looking 2018 at the earliest. To be honest, I doubt we will see anything while this lawsuit is in play.

      • Fastbuck

        2018? What is your source?

      • LarryJ

        First time I have heard 2018.

        So far all I have heard is that the industrial quark reactor will go into operation this year. As the title of this thread indicates, the Brakes are off. That doesn’t sound like things will go slower. Many companies are involved in litigation but that doesn’t mean business as usual is affected.

      • artefact

        He said maybe 2016. But could be also 2017. That was before saying the apperance on the market will be accelerated.
        He never said 2018.

        • HS61AF91

          “Full Speed Ahead and Damn the [HI] Torpedoes,” …
          “Over The Top, Boys,” “Praise The Lord and Pass [e-Cat’s] Ammunition,”

  • Josh G

    This opens up some interesting questions. Where will Leonardo manufacture and distribute the Ecats? Presumably in the countries where it had preexisting agreements before licensing with IH, otherwise they risk violating the contract. Did anyone else notice that one of the documents referred to in the IH license agreement was an agreement between Leonardo and AEG? I suspect Rossi has been working with AEG to roll out production for European markets, which will hopefully move forward without further delay. Not clear when the ecat will make its debut in the US market … Maybe somebody wants to ask him about this issue on JoNP?

    • Michael W Wolf

      IH didn’t formally declare a breach by Rossi. Does that mean when IH breached the contract by not paying, the contract is null and void?

      • NT

        One would think so, but maybe more to it all than just the final payment – good question for Rossi…

      • Josh G

        I don’t think so, but I’m not sure (and not a legal expert by any means).

  • Josh G

    This opens up some interesting questions. Where will Leonardo manufacture and distribute the Ecats? Presumably in the countries where it had preexisting agreements before licensing with IH, otherwise they risk violating the contract. Did anyone else notice that one of the documents referred to in the IH license agreement was an agreement between Leonardo and AEG? I suspect Rossi has been working with AEG to roll out production for European markets, which will hopefully move forward without further delay. Not clear when the ecat will make its debut in the US market … Maybe somebody wants to ask him about this issue on JoNP?

    • Michael W Wolf

      IH didn’t formally declare a breach by Rossi. Does that mean when IH breached the contract by not paying, the contract is null and void?

      • NT

        One would think so, but maybe more to it all than just the final payment – good question for Rossi…

      • Josh G

        I don’t think so, but I’m not sure (and not a legal expert by any means).

  • Omega Z

    I think I’ll invent something and make a lot of money.
    Lets see, It needs to be something that people really want or need or I will make no money.

    I know. I’ll discover a cure for cancer.

    Nope. People will just want me to give it away for free or steal it from me. All my time, efforts and investment will be lost.

    Screw it. I’m going fishing. Let some one else find the cure.
    ————————————————————————-
    While most everyone at ECW would agree, the Nobel Prize is given only to the living…

  • e-dog

    SPACEX just landed a fricken huge robot rocket called on a floating boat in the ocean called “of course I still love you”…

    • Ged

      Incredibly impressive work for them! I wondered if it would just not be possible, between the bobbing on the waves, the high winds typical of the ocean, and a rocket sticking straight up with a high center of gravity amidst it all. But they did it. Now, if they can do it routinely, it could revolutionize space affordability. At least that is some good news going on during all this chaos.

  • e-dog

    SPACEX just landed a fricken huge robot rocket called on a floating boat in the ocean called “of course I still love you”…

    • Ged

      Incredibly impressive work for them! I wondered if it would just not be possible, between the bobbing on the waves, the high winds typical of the ocean, and a rocket sticking straight up with a high center of gravity amidst it all. But they did it. Now, if they can do it routinely, it could revolutionize space affordability. At least that is some good news going on during all this chaos.

  • Ged

    Exactly. So if they knew it wasn’t going to pay off, they get to keep the 50-60 million Woodford invested, let alone all the Chinese and other unknown investors have given them.

  • Observer

    It looks a lot like the Armstrong – Sarnoff conflict. Hopefully with a more just resolution.

  • Observer

    It looks a lot like the Armstrong – Sarnoff conflict. Hopefully with a more just resolution.

  • Quixote

    Some time ago I told you that Rossi was vaporware, a professional storyteller. They need more evidence?

    • pg

      This from a guy that fights windmills for a living? I think we are ok.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Nice response

    • timycelyn

      Haven’t seen any yet….

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    You got it. It is being done to many companies and individuals with original IP. There are companies, law firms that do nothing but this, it is called white collar crime, they use the courts, outdated laws, and no or poor regulation. I call it Crony Capitalism. Wall Street brokers knew those AAA bonds they were selling were rotten, those bonds sent our entire economy into a tail spin recession. Did anyone go to jail? Of course not, it is called “white collar crime”.

    • Mats002

      Georgehants have a point in his consistantly message here at ECW.

  • bachcole

    Is there any confirmation concerning these statements?

    • Sanjeev

      Confirmations and solidity in lenrland are a very rare thing.

    • timycelyn

      That’s the sum that has already been paid over as per Rossi’s lawyers court submission

  • Andrew

    Apparently IH was willing to pay Rossi $11.5M for his stories….. Good story teller indeed.

  • Andrew

    Frank, what’s the traffic like around here lately? 🙂

    • Frank Acland

      Roughly double the normal amount over the last couple of days.

      • bachcole

        Please, Frank. Go back and check the numbers. If I delete so much as 100 comments that I don’t have time to read, that is unusual, perhaps once a month. Yesterday I deleted about 900, which I am sorry to say I did not have time to read. Today, I deleted about 300.

        • Frank Acland

          Certainly the rate of comments is far more than double the normal, but overall website hits and visitors is roughly double the normal rate. For the last 4.5 years I have found that there really hasn’t been much of a change in traffic overall. Traffic ebbs and flows with the news, but there’s a limited audience for this topic. There are lots of return visitors, not so many new visitors. I expect things will calm down again in the next few days unless the big report comes out or there are other new revelations.

          • Ken

            Same goes for any alternative energy topic. Seems there is an audience cap. Revolution-Green seems to have hovered at around the same traffic for the last year and a half. …..ebbs and flows like you said but typically the same average. you are getting a lot of commentary here though…..sounds like the topic is ripe with discussion.

  • Andrew

    Why is the Ecat even considered a disruptive technology? Assuming 100% efficiency in conversion if Rossi were to produce 1000 megawatt reactors a day it would still take about 300k years to fully saturate the globe… Based on 104,000 terawatt consumption.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

    • Mats002

      Good point. Release it asap.

    • SG

      Because Mr. Rossi won’t be the only one. You’ll have IH releasing their own versions at the same time. And probably a host of others. The patent battles will be fought out over the course of years, maybe decades.

  • Andrew

    Why is the Ecat even considered a disruptive technology? Assuming 100% efficiency in conversion if Rossi were to produce 1000 megawatt reactors a day it would still take about 300k years to fully saturate the globe… Based on 104,000 terawatt consumption.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

    • Mats002

      Good point. Release it asap.

    • Antimondialiste

      18.000GW/1/365 50years
      not only electricity but transport heat not too bad

    • bachcole

      People will undoubtedly pirate and otherwise copy the technology. What you are saying is like someone telling Henry Ford that he can never replace all of the horses in the world.

      • Andrew

        and yet there are still horses

        • NCY

          realistically, no there aren’t any horses in the world… not compared to the astronomical numbers that existed in comparison in the 19th century.

          • HS61AF91

            I can only think of Rumania, Hungary and Mongolia.

        • US_Citizen71

          What percentage of the world population still use horses for transportation?

      • Mike Ivanov

        Probably some people will try to secure a shiny new world-saving business, because if e-cat if true, all these scam CO2 emission money will go away. So lets tax people for heating of Earth!

    • SG

      Because Mr. Rossi won’t be the only one. You’ll have IH releasing their own versions at the same time. And probably a host of others. The patent battles will be fought out over the course of years, maybe decades.

  • US_Citizen71

    Add to that the fact that Cherokee Darden’s baby has some history of not coming up with the needed money for projects I wonder what really is going on. They left a brownfield site here in Denver as a giant mudhole blight on the area.

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13320307

  • Frank Acland

    Roughly double the normal amount over the last couple of days.

  • Private Citizen

    John Tandberg is long gone

  • Standby

    So Goddes, Mckubre and Darden tried to steal from Rossi!!!
    Funny game they play

    • NCkhawk

      Comparing the backgrounds or Godes, McKubre and Darden to Rossi is not a legitimate endeavor. None of those three gents are known for playing games.

      • SG

        Which is all the more shocking why they are giving in to what appears to be PR firm statements that come across as entirely inconsistent with what is known by the LENR community for the past three years.

        • bachcole

          Yes.

        • DrD

          Guys, as upsetting as this all is, I think it will not belong before the truth is unavoidable and opposition haven’t a leg to stand on. I just hope AR has all his bases covered, securely.

          • MasterBlaster7

            “I just hope AR has all his bases covered, securely.”….the good news is that Rossi tactically launched this law suit 5 days after non-payment of the 89 million putting IH in breach; and there are many points and claims in the law suit. I think that Rossi is on the ball with how to handle this. He has learned a lot of legal lessons over the years.

      • C. Kirk

        Please explain “known for playing games” Are you again insuinaing that Dr. Rossi is a fraud? IMO filing a $89M lawsuit is stupid unless you “have the goods”

      • bachcole

        I don’t see McKubre being a total jerk. Even Darden is a complete surprise, if true. I don’t know Godes.

      • Omega Z

        While I have always given Darden the benefit of the Doubt(Because of Rossi) I have always had certain reservations about him.

        Me thinks him dost “profess” to much about doing good for the people. These people usually do “VERY” much good for their own bank account.

        I have more regards for the professed sinner then the professed saint because I feel the saint shouldn’t need to profess anything. Their work should speak for itself.
        ——————————————-
        Robert Godes, He plays “THE” game. His recent post here at ECW is the telltale of that. But he is as much a victim to the powers at work as Rossi and a few others are.
        ——————————————-
        Michael McKubre, Simply a victim of circumstance caught in the crossfire.

    • builditnow

      Having kept a close eye on McKubre and personally met him, there is no way that Mckubre would be involved in “any” scheme to steal from Rossi.

    • Guru Khalsa

      I am no lawyer but here is my take. If IH shared Rossi’s IP with Rossi’s competitors IH would be in violation of the agreement. If however IH was simply making improvements on the technology by enlisting scientists they had an agreement with, and the IP would remain in house so to speak then they would be in their rights according to the agreement and could protect their improvements by filing a patent.

      If Rossi withheld information that could help IH in the sale of Ecat related technology then Rossi would be in violation of the agreement. Since the $89 million was never paid IH is in violation of the agreement, but maybe so is Rossi. I don’t think Rossi has shared the Ecatx technology and maybe that is what this is really about. Possibly the Ecatx is such an improvement that Rossi does’t feel it is part of the agreement and IH disagrees.

      • Guru Khalsa

        Meanwhile NextBigFuture posts this story: ‘Rossi 1 Megawatt Energy Catalyzer is a failure after 3 years of testing by Industrial Heat’.

        http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/04/rossi-1-megawatt-energy-catalyzer-is.html

        • This article is straight out of the Gary Wright playbook. Possibly Darden or Vaughn are unacknowledged sources, or some other party wants the lid kept on the e-cat story for the time being.

          Strange isn’t it that Industrial Heat – set up specifically to handle Rossi’s e-cat – should choose to expand into large new premises at the end of last year, when they could find no evidence that e-cats perform as Rossi claims.

          • TOUSSAINT francois

            Yes this article biased , I have erased NEXT BIG FUTUR from my favorits !

          • kdk

            You can still visit it, watch it to see how they spin it and why, and apply that lens elsewhere.

          • Omega Z

            In Mats interview with Fabiani who was on IH’s Payroll/Employee, November 25, 2015. Nine months into the test and all was well.

            “Until now the test is in line with the result that we expected.”

            I agree, this all seems to be aimed at delaying the technology, or possibly Darden can’t come up with the full $89 million.

            If this should be a delaying tactic and I were Rossi, I would set up a MAD system. Massive, Assured, Deployment. I would make arrangements with multiple **parties to manufacture and market on a very large scale. No up front or Territorial license fee. Only a $1 royalty per 10KW E-cat system or portion there of and a 50 cent royalty fee added to each 2 year recharge.

            This also ends the claims of greed. No reasonable person would see these minimal royalty fees as greedy.
            ————————————————————————
            Note in Rossi/IH license arrangement. 100 Million dollars plus a 5% royalty of net manufacture sales. The Royalties were capped at 1 Billion$.

            The minimal fees listed above would far exceed what he would receive from Industrial heat whom would have 50% of the world market.

            **GE, Siemens, B&W, No regions left behind- India, China, M.east. etc, etc,
            Massive

          • Fastbuck

            The royalty only kicks in when a product that utilizes the E-Cat IP infringes on the patent of a third party, or any person/company enters the market with a product that utilizes the E-Cat IP. In either case, IH had the option to reduce it’s final payment to $44,500,000 and pay the 5% royalty instead. See paragraph 3.2(c) of the contract.

          • Michael W Wolf

            They didn’t say ecats and they didn’t say “perform” they said as Rossi claims. We are dealing with some serious lawyer speak in all IH’s statements.

          • “Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success.”

            With respect, your comment seems to be just nit-picking.

        • clovis ray

          Lol

          • Michael W Wolf

            Hmm, all of a sudden the left wing anti capitalists side with the evil capitalists. I am a capitalist and side with Rossi on this one. But for the life of me I can’t figure out why they believe who they otherwise call lying snakes. Could it be their hatred for Rossi is so substantial that they switched their political loyalties?

          • clovis ray

            HI, Mike, W’ll I tell ya.you learn in this game, to trust but verify,everything, and its just the crony capitalist, that i dislike, they take more and more as long as you let them, we Americans are tired of the thieves stealing from our people,

      • Omega Z

        Industrial heats own people have worked on the E-cat X and the Quark.
        It is also included with the Industrial heat License to manufacture and sell.
        It is probable that they either couldn’t come up with $89 million in cash or are part of an effort to stop/delay Rossi’s work. I have mentioned the delay possibility before as IH and friends have fossil energy assets they would like to dispose of, but only after recovering the losses in value..

        • Michael W Wolf

          IH and friends have fossil energy assets? wow, isn’t that a conflict of interest?

          • Omega Z

            Most investment funds include a fair share of energy stocks. Having held these stocks on the slide down, they would strongly prefer to wait until some recovery took place before dumping them.

            Just keep in mind, any new investments are primarily paid for by selling shares in an exisiting investment to be invested in the new. Selling energy stocks while down means that much less to invest in LENR.

            One could argue that the losses would be more then offset by the ultimate gains in LENR. It is high risk unless you have a crystal ball and know who will prevail and who will fail. There is no such guarantee.

      • Mike Ivanov

        They all snakes, that it 🙂

      • Brent Buckner

        You wrote: “If IH shared Rossi’s IP with Rossi’s competitors IH would be in violation of the agreement.”

        I see in section 16.4 of the License Agreement that Rossi/LC have an
        obligation to maintain confidentiality of E-Cat IP trade secrets, but I
        see no reciprocal obligation on IH. Paragraph 101 of the Complaint
        doesn’t claim that IH was in violation of any particular aspect of the
        License Agreement, rather it claims that in becoming an exclusive
        licensee that IH assumed a fiduciary duty to Rossi/LC.

        We’ll see what IH claims and how the court decides.

        • Guru Khalsa

          Well there is the section 15.2 Intentionally Omitted.

          • Brent Buckner

            I don’t believe section 15.2 is something that’s being held back, I believe that the signed document actually has “15.2 Intentionally Omitted” just as many documents with blank pages have “This page is intentionally left blank”.
            EDIT: e.g. http://www.adamsdrafting.com/intentionally-omitted/

          • Guru Khalsa

            So explain section 3.2 c wherein if the Rossi IP infringes on a 3rd party IP the Company pays Rossi 1 billion but otherwise the Company only pays Rossi $89 million.

          • Brent Buckner

            I suggest that you re-read the section. As I read it:
            If IH finds that Rossi’s IP infringes on a third party then instead of paying $89 million (and no royalty fee) IH may choose to pay $44.5 million plus a 5% royalty fee (the royalty fee being capped at a maximum payment of $1 Billion).

          • Guru Khalsa

            I read it as a document granting license and sublicensees to the company for $100,500,000. I don’t see the part about transfering ownership of the IP. Obviously the IP must be transfered to the Company for it to manufacture and sell the Ecats, but I don’t see where it says ownership of the IP is transferred.

          • Brent Buckner

            It doesn’t say that *ownership* of the IP is transferred (except to my reading possibly section 10 on the assignment of the patents, but I’m told that bit is not an ownership transfer). Rather, it says that after the $10 million payment (which Rossi/LC state they received) that Rossi/LC will deliver the E-Cat IP to IH (see section 3.2(b)).

          • Guru Khalsa

            But if the Company doesn’t have ownership of the IP how can it divulge the Rossi IP to Rossi’s competitors?

          • Brent Buckner

            The question is whether or not IH had a duty to maintain confidentiality of E-Cat IP trade secrets. The Complaint asserts that IH had a fiduciary duty to do so; I expect that IH will contest that.

            You and I might have an agreement whereby I have to tell you something that I am keeping secret from others. Our agreement may not include a provision that you have to keep it secret too.

          • Guru Khalsa

            If JK Rowling lends me her next book to read before it is published , am I legally allowed to publish it for a profit. I don’t know about that.

          • Brent Buckner

            No, because of copyright. Trade secrets are a different animal.

            I was very surprised to read the License Agreement and see Section 16.4 with no reciprocal obligation on IH.

            Similarly, see Martin Tornberg’s comment on just how flawed this License Agreement appears: https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/07/andrea-rossi-sues-industrial-heat-for-89m/#comment-4241

          • SG

            Yes, Mr. Rossi/Leonardo could have had a tighter contract. Bear in mind that in the heat of a contract negotiation, there is give and take on both sides. No side ever gets everything they want, assuming that each is well-represented. Entering into any kind of contract carries with it risks that the other side is not going to behave in good faith. And Mr. Rossi probably really needed the money after the Greek fiasco, and so was maybe willing to make some concessions here and there.

            This still doesn’t excuse, in my mind, IH’s behavior, nor do I think IH is necessarily going to win this one in court.

    • Charles

      They are all [ :< (|) ]s. Note the low-brows.

    • Sanjeev

      Not good to drag others into this without any evidence.

  • Andrew

    and yet there are still horses

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      realistically, no there aren’t any horses in the world… not compared to the astronomical numbers that existed in comparison in the 19th century.

      • HS61AF91

        I can only think of Rumania, Hungary and Mongolia.

    • US_Citizen71

      What percentage of the world population still use horses for transportation?

  • Omega Z

    You are of coarse correct. My mistake. I’m just so used to people posting this about Fleischmann. At least he saw the tide turning before he passed.

  • Veblin

    What does this shipment from 2007 have to do with anything.

  • hempenearth

    There is a difference between proof and evidence. The term “bits of proof” is not helpful. We need to determine which bits of evidence are relevant.

    • Kip Travall

      True hemp….but there is an OVERWHELMING bias to believe Rossi 100% and throw out pretty much every single shred of information that would be negative toward Rossi. It blows my mind how biased the analysis of this situation is here on this forum!

      • Omega Z

        Just as there is OVERWHELMING bias to believe Rossi is a fraud.
        You should have done a little work and you would know that Rossini Marble is a brand name. Found all over the U.S.

  • Kip Travall

    The blinders suit you well my friend. Rather than just posting “lol”….add to the discussion and explain how its coincidence that Rossini is in the same building as Rossi..no working website …phone not working…no real proof of “marble” business in the last 10 yrs….versus all of the bias being given to the honesty of Rossi….especially noting his questionable moves in the past…..blinders…

  • jousterusa

    “Brake” or not, it’s important and frightening to remember, that as I said here last year, there is going to be no major “breakthrough” news coverage of the E-Cat. I think it’s easiest to think about LENR and the E=Cat as child pornography that is illegal tp publish. The Associated Press and The New York Times/Washington Post axis of media coverage is completely blocked, as are CNN. Fox and the other media giants that are too vulnerable and afraid to take on the deeply entrenched giants of the energy world. For its part. the Times, Post and AP would far rather publish kiddie porn than revea; an economic disrupter of this magnitude. It was no accident that the Times was not among the hundreds of publications entrusted with advance review of the Panama Papers. They would rat out the sources rather than bring that kind of heat upon themselves. Our sole option is to try our best to take the news of the E-Cat and LENR viral, using all of our collective experience and determination to make a breakthrough. Good luck to all of us! Remember that the info in the court docs is sworn testimony subject to perjury laws, and that is one way the truth can be brought out and verified.

    • A couple of weeks ago I would have probably suggested that this might not be a good idea because it could compromise IH/Rossi’s plans to stay low key until they were ready to go to market – but for obvious reasons I now fully agree. It’s time to use any opportunity that presents itself to increase public awareness that cold fusion is a valid solution to our energy needs.

      • clovis ray

        yep, but listen, we need to let Dr.R lead he knows what the plan is and we don’t i would hate to know i was doing something that worked against his wishes,
        i feel he has given us a hint, that in june he will announce, something public,
        He just needs a little more time i would think, to tie up loose ends, this is more complicated that it looks, and waiting a little longer won’t hurt, we have been patient, for this long , just a bit longer, if the good doctor wants it.

    • Eyedoc

      See my comment above……..this may be all to get it out public ( I can wish, can’t I ??)

  • builditnow

    Having kept a close eye on McKubre and personally met him, there is no way that Mckubre would be involved in “any” scheme to steal from Rossi.

  • Roland

    In a another stunning turn of events in Florida Rossi’s Pizzeria received a rating of 3.5 from exactly 35 reviewers on TripAdvisor; yah just can’t make this stuff up.

    Wonder who the whiners that don’t like Rossi’s cooking are; please tell me it’s not you Kip…

  • LarryJ

    First time I have heard 2018.

    So far all I have heard is that the industrial quark reactor will go into operation this year. As the title of this thread indicates, the Brakes are off. That doesn’t sound like things will go slower. Many companies are involved in litigation but that doesn’t mean business as usual is affected.

  • LarryJ

    If it takes them many years to certify the domestic reactor then they will effectively abandon the next mega industry to other countries. Seems unlikely in my opinion given the US commanding lead at this time. Assuming of course that it works and the industrial market makes the public aware, the pressure to certify would be enormous.

    • HS61AF91

      No need to assume, it works. You’re right other countries can fill the gap. Should IH tie up US entry, awareness will come from abroad.

  • Guru Khalsa

    I am no lawyer but here is my take. If IH shared Rossi’s IP with Rossi’s competitors IH would be in violation of the agreement. If however IH was simply making improvements on the technology by enlisting scientists they had an agreement with, and the IP would remain in house so to speak then they would be in their rights according to the agreement and could protect their improvements by filing a patent.

    If Rossi withheld information that could help IH in the sale of Ecat related technology then Rossi would be in violation of the agreement. Since the $89 million was never paid IH is in violation of the agreement, but maybe so is Rossi. I don’t think Rossi has shared the Ecatx technology and maybe that is what this is really about. Possibly the Ecatx is such an improvement that Rossi does’t feel it is part of the agreement and IH disagrees.

    • Guru Khalsa

      Meanwhile NextBigFuture posts this story: ‘Rossi 1 Megawatt Energy Catalyzer is a failure after 3 years of testing by Industrial Heat’.

      http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/04/rossi-1-megawatt-energy-catalyzer-is.html

      • This seems to confirm that the establishment wants to keep the lid firmly on this for the time being – the article is straight out of the Gary Wright playbook. The final sentence, ‘In late 2015, Industrial Heat is expanding its operations into a 20,000-square-foot lab space in Cary, North Carolina’ indicates that parts of the article have been warmed over from an earlier one.

        Anyone know anything about the author, Brian Wang, or ownership of NextBigFuture?

        Strange that Industrial Heat – set up specifically to handle Rossi’s e-cat – should choose to expand into large new premises, when they can find no evidence that e-cats perform as Rossi claims.

        • TOUSSAINT francois

          Yes this article biased , I have erased NEXT BIG FUTUR from my favorits !

          • kdk

            You can still visit it, watch it to see how they spin it and why, and apply that lens elsewhere.

        • Omega Z

          In Mats interview with Fabiani who was on IH’s Payroll/Employee, November 25, 2015. Nine months into the test and all was well.

          “Until now the test is in line with the result that we expected.”

          I agree, this all seems to be aimed at delaying the technology, or possibly Darden can’t come up with the full $89 million.

          If this should be a delaying tactic and I were Rossi, I would set up a MAD system. Massive, Assured, Deployment. I would make arrangements with multiple **parties to manufacture and market on a very large scale. No up front or Territorial license fee. Only a $1 royalty per 10KW E-cat system or portion there of and a 50 cent royalty fee added to each 2 year recharge.

          This also ends the claims of greed. No reasonable person would see these minimal royalty fees as greedy.
          ————————————————————————
          Note in Rossi/IH license arrangement. 100 Million dollars plus a 5% royalty of net manufacture sales. The Royalties were capped at 1 Billion$.

          The minimal fees listed above would far exceed what he would receive from Industrial heat whom would have 50% of the world market.

          **GE, Siemens, B&W, No regions left behind- India, China, M.east. etc, etc,
          Massive

        • Michael W Wolf

          They didn’t say ecats and they didn’t say “perform” they said as Rossi claims. We are dealing with some serious lawyer speak in all IH’s statements.

          • “Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success.”

            With respect, your comment seems to be nit picking in the extreme.

    • Omega Z

      Industrial heats own people have worked on the E-cat X and the Quark.
      It is also included with the Industrial heat License to manufacture and sell.
      It is probable that they either couldn’t come up with $89 million in cash or are part of an effort to stop/delay Rossi’s work. I have mentioned the delay possibility before as IH and friends have fossil energy assets they would like to dispose of, but only after recovering the losses in value..

      • Michael W Wolf

        IH and friends have fossil energy assets? wow, isn’t that a conflict of interest?

        • Omega Z

          Most investment funds include a fair share of energy stocks. Having held these stocks on the slide down, they would strongly prefer to wait until some recovery took place before dumping them.

          Just keep in mind, any new investments are primarily paid for by selling shares in an exisiting investment to be invested in the new. Selling energy stocks while down means that much less to invest in LENR.

          One could argue that the losses would be more then offset by the ultimate gains in LENR. It is high risk unless you have a crystal ball and know who will prevail and who will fail. There is no such guarantee.

    • Mike Ivanov

      They all snakes, that it 🙂

    • Brent Buckner

      You wrote: “If IH shared Rossi’s IP with Rossi’s competitors IH would be in violation of the agreement.”

      I see in section 16.4 of the License Agreement that Rossi/LC have an
      obligation to maintain confidentiality of E-Cat IP trade secrets, but I
      see no reciprocal obligation on IH. Paragraph 101 of the Complaint
      doesn’t claim that IH was in violation of any particular aspect of the
      License Agreement, rather it claims that in becoming an exclusive
      licensee that IH assumed a fiduciary duty to Rossi/LC.

      We’ll see what IH claims and how the court decides.

      • Guru Khalsa

        Well there is the section 15.2 Intentionally Omitted.

        • Brent Buckner

          I don’t believe section 15.2 is something that’s being held back, I believe that the signed document actually has “15.2 Intentionally Omitted” just as many documents with blank pages have “This page is intentionally left blank”.

          • Guru Khalsa

            So explain section 3.2 c wherein if the Rossi IP infringes on a 3rd party IP the Company pays Rossi 1 billion but otherwise the Company only pays Rossi $89 million.

          • Brent Buckner

            I suggest that you re-read the section. As I read it:
            If IH finds that Rossi’s IP infringes on a third party then instead of paying $89 million (and no royalty fee) IH may choose to pay $44.5 million plus a 5% royalty fee (the royalty fee being capped at a maximum payment of $1 Billion).

          • Guru Khalsa

            I read it as a document granting license and sublicensees to the company for $100,500,000. I don’t see the part about transfering ownership of the IP. Obviously the IP must be transfered to the Company for it to manufacture and sell the Ecats, but I don’t see where it says ownership of the IP is transferred.

          • Brent Buckner

            It doesn’t say that *ownership* of the IP is transferred (except to my reading possibly section 10 on the assignment of the patents, but I’m told that bit is not an ownership transfer). Rather, it says that after the $10 million payment (which Rossi/LC state they received) that Rossi/LC will deliver the E-Cat IP to IH (see section 3.2(b)).

          • Guru Khalsa

            But if the Company doesn’t have ownership of the IP how can it divulge the Rossi IP to Rossi’s competitors?

          • Brent Buckner

            The question is whether or not IH had a duty to maintain confidentiality of E-Cat IP trade secrets. The Complaint asserts that IH had a fiduciary duty to do so; I expect that IH will contest that.

            You and I might have an agreement whereby I have to tell you something that I am keeping secret from others. Our agreement may not include a provision that you have to keep it secret too.

          • Guru Khalsa

            If JK Rowling lends me her next book to read before it is published , am I legally allowed to publish it for a profit. I don’t know about that.

          • Brent Buckner

            No, because of copyright. Trade secrets are a different animal.

            I was very surprised to read the License Agreement and see Section 16.4 with no reciprocal obligation on IH.

            Similarly, see Martin Tornberg’s comment on just how flawed this License Agreement appears: https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/07/andrea-rossi-sues-industrial-heat-for-89m/#comment-4241

          • SG

            Yes, Mr. Rossi/Leonardo could have had a tighter contract. Bear in mind that in the heat of a contract negotiation, there is give and take on both sides. No side ever gets everything they want, assuming that each is well-represented. Entering into any kind of contract carries with it risks that the other side is not going to behave in good faith. And Mr. Rossi probably really needed the money after the Greek fiasco, and so was maybe willing to make some concessions here and there.

            This still doesn’t excuse, in my mind, IH’s behavior, nor do I think IH is necessarily going to win this one in court.

  • Sanjeev

    Confirmations and solidity in lenrland are a very rare thing.

  • Mike Ivanov

    Probably some people will try to secure a shiny new world-saving business, because if e-cat if true, all these scam CO2 emission money will go away. So lets tax people for heating of Earth!

  • Charles

    They are all [ :< (|) ]s. Note the low-brows.

  • timycelyn

    That’s the sum that has already been paid over as per Rossi’s lawyers court submission

  • timycelyn

    Haven’t seen any yet….

  • artefact

    He said maybe 2016. But could be also 2017. That was before saying the apperance on the market will be accelerated.
    He never said 2018.

    • HS61AF91

      “Full Speed Ahead and Damn the HI Torpedoes,” …
      “Over The Top, Boys,” “Praise The Lord and Pass e-Cat’s Ammunition,”

  • artefact

    Sifferkoll:

    “Rossi vs. Snakes – A Superior man vs. Inferior People – An Athlete vs. Envy & Hate!”

    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/rossi-vs-snakes-a-superior-man-vs-inferior-people-an-athlete-vs-envy-hate/

  • artefact

    Sifferkoll:

    “Rossi vs. Snakes – A Superior man vs. Inferior People – An Athlete vs. Envy & Hate!”

    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/rossi-vs-snakes-a-superior-man-vs-inferior-people-an-athlete-vs-envy-hate/

  • Freethinker

    I hope Rossi will succeed.

    After all, he brought this into the light, and in fairness, he should be well rewarded.

    It is painful to see the deceitful actions of IH, as they pretend Rossi’s work be null and void, whereas at the same time they are scrambling to get hold of any other patent they can, including filing their own patents, clearly in an effort to secure a slice of the cake. But I guess that is business as usual. Stab anybody in the back if you can, to make a buck.

    That the landslide is accelerating is evident in so many ways, as even the Saudi Kingdom now will switch into a post oil era, setting up a huge sovereign fund, intended to fund research and development in various areas (including other sources of energy) as well as in developing tourism, to secure future revenues to the kingdom.

  • joshighost

    Wish he would release the e-cat as OpenSource, before it can be stolen by the wrong hands

    This is too important

  • Michael W Wolf

    Hmm, all of a sudden the left wing anti capitalists side with the evil capitalists. I am a capitalist and side with Rossi on this one. But for the life of me I can’t figure out why they believe who they otherwise call lying snakes. Could it be their hatred for Rossi is so substantial that they switched their political loyalties?

    • clovis ray

      HI, Mike, W’ll I tell ya.you learn in this game, that trust but verify , everything, and its just the crony capitalist, that i dis like, they take more and more as long as you let them, we Americans are tired of the thieves stealing from our people,

  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Alan DeAngelis
  • Jacques

    I am amazed at how quickly the wholesale desertion of Rossi by posters here has occurred following these developments. I’m sure we’ll be back to business as usual when he announces the forthcoming E-Cat Y refrigeration unit.

    • Sanjeev

      How did you get that idea?

      On the contrary, I see more sympathy towards him and a lot of excitement here.
      Remember that both IH and Rossi plan to go ahead with whatever their plans are with full speed. The only thing that has happened is a desertion of Rossi by IH and vice versa.

      • Jacques

        I only go by the comments I see posted on the last few days’ threads, which indicate a degree of disillusionment among a higher of numbers of participants than is usual here. Perhaps I am overreacting, but to my eyes the proportion of disenchanted people has risen markedly.

        • US_Citizen71

          What you refer to are not posts by regular posters just the gaggle from ECN that pops in now and again when they get bored over there. The regular posters most negative comments seem to be we should wait and see until all data is in. Nice attempt at disinformation, by the way!

  • Jacques

    I am amazed at how quickly the wholesale desertion of Rossi by posters here has occurred following these developments. I’m sure we’ll be back to business as usual when he announces the forthcoming E-Cat Y refrigeration unit.

    • Sanjeev

      How did you get that idea?

      On the contrary, I see more sympathy towards him and a lot of excitement here.
      Remember that both IH and Rossi plan to go ahead with whatever their plans are with full speed. The only thing that has happened is a desertion of Rossi by IH and vice versa.

      • Jacques

        I only go by the comments I see posted on the last few days’ threads, which indicate a degree of disillusionment among a higher of numbers of participants than is usual here. Perhaps I am overreacting, but to my eyes the proportion of disenchanted people has risen markedly.

        • US_Citizen71

          What you refer to are not posts by regular posters just the gaggle from ECN that pops in now and again when they get bored over there. The regular posters most negative comments seem to be we should wait and see until all data is in. Nice attempt at disinformation, by the way!

          • Subtlety is crucial for the denizens of ECN. Jacques – just look at the posting history of the ‘deserters’ (if they have one) and you may see a pattern there.

  • Sanjeev

    Not good to drag others into this without any evidence.

  • Winebuff67

    I think others will be first to market. Seems Rossi can’t play nice with others whether it’s his fault or not.

    • Ophelia Rump

      The others don’t play nice. Don’t blame the kid who brought all the marbles if he wants to leave with them.

      • Even without producing anything, just licensing the ‘quark’ technology at nominal cost and 1% royalties would net him more money that he could possibly ever spend, and also gain him the recognition he seems to want.

        Of course, the technology would be leaked or reverse engineered and replicated very quickly, but if he is selling ‘legitimate’ licenses to manufacture for modest cost, manufacturers wouldn’t bother to go to the rip-off merchants and risk prosecution for infringement of IP – at least not in the major ‘Western’ countries.

        • Eyedoc

          Yes, hopefully the ‘public proof’ is the entire point of this suit…… and it would be so beautiful if IH was along for the ride (but sadly AR sounds too PO’d for that possiblity)

    • Buck

      In what world is it appropriate to ignore Rossi’s desire to protect his life’s work from the apparent behavior of a thief who is schooled on smiling while picking your pocket?

  • Winebuff67

    I think others will be first to market. Seems Rossi can’t play nice with others whether it’s his fault or not.

    • Ophelia Rump

      The others don’t play nice. Don’t blame the kid who brought all the marbles if he wants to leave with them.

      Rossi could become a trillionaire and fuel the world tomorrow, simply by open sourcing the reactor design and selling only the fuel chips. He is unstoppable now.

      • Even without producing anything, just licensing the ‘quark’ technology at nominal cost and 1% royalties would net him more money that he could possibly ever spend, and also gain him the recognition he seems to want.

        Of course, the technology would be leaked or reverse engineered and replicated very quickly, but if he is selling ‘legitimate’ licenses to manufacture for modest cost, manufacturers wouldn’t bother to go to the rip-off merchants and risk prosecution for infringement of IP – at least not in the major ‘Western’ countries.

        Edit: Of course, he would need to organise some kind of genuinely incontrovertible public tests first. Not a modest task as we have witnessed, but a device that produces electricity would be quite easy to demonstrate without allowing any of the usual doubts revolving around steam quality, calorimetry etc. Something like entering the mille miglia (by special permission) in a car powered solely by ‘quark’ cells, inspected before and after the trip by engineers from UL, TUV etc ought to do it.

        There would still be the safety certification issue of course, but this will be much easier for small ‘quark’ electrical generators than for big industrial boilers (domestic boilers are right out for the time being) using the ‘old’ e-cat thermal technology.

        Edit 2: Or perhaps the latter (public proof) IS the point of Rossi’s forcing of the issue into the courts – i.e., the whole purpose of the exercise is to gain an opportunity to demonstrate his invention in the most public way he can think of – a high profile court case (made high profile by judicious [no pun intended] use of press releases)..

        • Eyedoc

          Yes, hopefully the ‘public proof’ is the entire point of this suit…… and it would be so beautiful if IH was along for the ride (but sadly AR sounds too PO’d for that possiblity)

    • Buck

      In what world is it appropriate to ignore Rossi’s desire to protect his life’s work from the apparent behavior of a thief who is schooled on smiling while picking your pocket?

  • Sanjeev

    Another strange thing is, by announcing that Rossi has nothing, IH has closed all doors to future funding. However, they still want to go ahead, perhaps by using “competitors” tech, and will now demo that tech to the potential investors/partners for money. If the investors or their hired experts are smart then they will surely sense that IH is just showing Rossi’s tech in a different package and they may not trust it, as IH itself says it does not work.
    I’ve no idea how they managed to take such a stupid decision. Probably they have other better plans else they shot themselves right when it was the prime time to make trillion$.

    • Ged

      That’s a very lucid point. IH basically ended itself at multiple levels with that statement (incompetence for not finding out before taking so much investor money, undermining all the previous sales pitches they have made, undermining all future sales pitches, undermining their Capital Hill demostration, etc).

      • NCkhawk

        When did IH had a Capital Hill demonstration? You guys need to get your information from sources other than Rossi. IH may have invested in Brillouin before they invested in Rossi. I believe that Brillouin had wet and dry LENR projects long before the IH investment.

        • psi2u2

          You need to stop putting words in Rossi’s mouth: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/11/prweb13098381.htm

          That is to say, if you want to be more credible, it would be a good idea if you shot a little less from the hip of your assumptions.

          • clovis ray

            not sure about that one, buddy, congress would not even have know what
            an reactor would look like, but it is reasonable to think they I/H knew that they had the goods already,

    • NCkhawk

      It doesn’t work that way Sanjeev. I’m guessing that IH has been disclosing their distrust of Rossi to their money partners all along.

      • Sanjeev

        And still getting millions in funding?

  • Sanjeev

    Another strange thing is, by announcing that Rossi has nothing, IH has closed all doors to future funding. However, they still want to go ahead, perhaps by using “competitors” tech, and will now demo that tech to the potential investors/partners for money. If the investors or their hired experts are smart then they will surely sense that IH is just showing Rossi’s tech in a different package and they may not trust it, as IH itself says it does not work.
    I’ve no idea how they managed to take such a stupid decision. Probably they have other better plans else they shot themselves right when it was the prime time to make trillion$.

    • Ged

      That’s a very lucid point. IH basically ended itself at multiple levels with that statement (incompetence for not finding out before taking so much investor money, undermining all the previous sales pitches they have made, undermining all future sales pitches, undermining their Capital Hill demostration, etc).

      • NCkhawk

        When did IH had a Capital Hill demonstration? You guys need to get your information from sources other than Rossi. IH may have invested in Brillouin before they invested in Rossi. I believe that Brillouin had wet and dry LENR projects long before the IH investment.

        • psi2u2

          http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/11/prweb13098381.htm

          If IH had purchased Broullin’s IP, then it is reasonable to think they were connected to this well known Congressional promotions event.

          • clovis ray

            not sure about that one, buddy, congress would not even have know what
            an reactor would look like, but it is reasonable to think they I/H knew that they had the goods already,

      • clovis ray

        agreed. but i think brillouin, did not demonstrate their device, all i seen was them carrying something around they called a reactor, there was no actual demo,
        looked like just a piece of pipe with wires hanging out of it. who knows what was inside, i say nothing was in it, and now they have Dr R’s design.
        Now good people we are going to see what happens to those that try and steal his device,
        There has never been anything like it in history, and you try and sell something that belongs to him, you are going to jail.

    • NCkhawk

      It doesn’t work that way Sanjeev. I’m guessing that IH has been disclosing their distrust of Rossi to their money partners all along.

      • Sanjeev

        And still getting millions in funding?

  • Sanjeev
    • LuFong

      This is a plausible hypothesis based upon the conjecture that Darden/Vaughn’s greed have led them to steal Rossi’s IP and not pay the $89M. But given Darden/Vaughn had the Rossi IP and future Rossi IP and over half the world’s market, $89M is a relatively paltry sum (for billion $ investment funds) and it’s difficult to believe that what appears to be an otherwise credible organization with commendable goals would try to do this kind of thing.

      To me the critical element here now is the 1MW plant test. The results are evidently completely positive but we don’t know this for sure. Darden/Vaughn must show conclusively that Rossi somehow has manipulated the results. Nothing else really matters here. It will not be enough to cast doubt on the methods used or to suggest something may have been done. If IH cannot do this then their claim is baseless and they owe Rossi the $89M (plus more), IMO.

      • Reading this particular set of runes is difficult, but IH’s expansion from a desk in a corner of Cherokee’s office to a large factory premises last year, their acquisition of energy related domains, and their attempts to patent LENR related systems seem to rule out their counter claim. If the ‘ERV’ has done his job, his report will put the cap on it.

        As many others have pointed out, IH seem to have shot themselves through the foot by accepting outside investment for a technology they now claim they can’t replicate, despite several statements to the contrary that are on record, and of course they would have known that this would be the price for failing to give Rossi the agreed final sum.

        That seems to leave only two possibilities: (1) Rossi hasn’t handed over whatever IP he was supposed to transfer to IH under the terms of agreement, or (2) they’re playing some other game now, either in response to external pressure, or because they need delay for their own purposes.

        You pays yer money…

        • LuFong

          Well now that Rossi has the the E-Cat Quark/X I can see Rossi wanting to back out of this and IH probably has done things to enable Rossi to maybe wiggle out of the license agreement. But I think Rossi has turned over everything since I believe they fueled all the tests.

          Speaking of runes, what do you make of the Brillouin connection? Rumor (because I haven’t seen anything official) is that IH has invested in Brillouin. Robert Godes has commented (once) on this blog saying essentially Rossi’s technology is not commercial ready. And Rossi unloaded on IH and Brillouin accusing them of stealing Rossi’s E-Cat (‘Copy-Cat’). Perhaps Robert Godes is influencing IH here? I can come up with numerous nefarious possibilities but this would fall into your (2) I think.

          • It does seem fairly obvious that IH has been investing in competing groups such as Brillouin, presumably in order to both get a stake in their technology, and to acquire expertise and research facilities (they won’t have anything relevant of their own). Rossi’s accusation that a recent demonstration by Brillouin used something similar to e-cat tech seems to confirm their involvement. There is also the question of who built the pilot plant reactors, and where.

            More data points required, before we all burn out our brains speculating on seriously incomplete information!

        • Omega Z

          ->”or because they need delay for their own purposes.”
          Rossi says things can move forward faster now. IH was a brake. That easily translates, they were holding things back or delaying progress.

          • Someone has said that Cherokee are heavily invested in fossil energy. If that’s the case the conflict of interest is obvious.

      • clovis ray

        Hi,Lu fong.
        i agree with most of what you said, only Dr.R, does not want the 89 mill
        that contract was busted, when they didn’t pay, the stealing of his design is a whole other matter.

    • aryth

      I doubt that the plan was to defraud Rossi from beginning. IH, after getting into this, should have been set to developing technology as fast as extensive as possible, but likely they found Rossi too hard to work with, to make him align with their goals and business practices, and/or to give control, and so they just discounted him as a partner at some point… Also, I find it hard to believe they were not prepared at all for the Rossi’s (very natural) reaction, especially given his history… which means that their reaction that they could not replicate (yes, “substantiate”) Rossi’s claims is probably thought through response… meaning that they probably could not do it, i.e., Rossi likely did not share the whole IP, or IP related to hot cats (which were the ones producing COP>6 in the tests, I think)

    • Mats002

      See the post below the article how Thomas Clarke change his mind from negative to plausible. Is it the same TC?

      Thomas: if you follow ECW, please expand your thoughts.

      • Sanjeev

        I’d not believe a single word of whatever TC writes, positive or negative. He is a known pathoskeptic. If this is not TC, still it has no weight.

  • Sanjeev
    • aryth

      I doubt that the plan was to defraud Rossi from beginning. IH, after getting into this, should have been set to developing technology as fast as extensive as possible, but likely they found Rossi too hard to work with, to make him align with their goals and business practices, and/or to give control, and so they just discounted him as a partner at some point… Also, I find it hard to believe they were not prepared at all for the Rossi’s (very natural) reaction, especially given his history… which means that their reaction that they could not replicate (yes, “substantiate”) Rossi’s claims is probably thought through response… meaning that they probably could not do it, i.e., Rossi likely did not share the whole IP, or IP related to hot cats (which were the ones producing COP>6 in the tests, I think)

    • Mats002

      See the post below the article how Thomas Clarke change his mind from negative to plausible. Is it the same TC?

      Thomas: if you follow ECW, please expand your thoughts.

      • Sanjeev

        I’d not believe a single word of whatever TC writes, positive or negative. He is a known pathoskeptic. If this is not TC, still it has no weight.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    At the moment I believe Mr. Rossi because I.H.’s actions don’t equate with the e-cat invention not performing (just as Mr. Rossi has pointed out in making his case). Aside from that, why would I.H. (or
    anyone with half a brain) prolong the 1 MW reactor tests for almost a year if the reactor wasn’t performing? That’s just plain nuts!

    The more information that’s out there the better for Mr. Rossi’s case. He has the truth on his side (I think) and it’s best the truth get out there sooner rather than later.

    If Mr. Rossi provided MFMP a bit of information (only information) to help their independent replication
    activity succeed in a few weeks (if not sooner), this would dramatically increase world interest in bringing about justice to resolve this conflict quickly and honestly. It would, in other words, help ensure that Mr.
    Rossi triumphs quickly and delivers his invention to humanity sooner rather than later.

    This invention will transform the world. It can’t be swept under the carpet. It must not be unduly delayed.

    It would also help a lot to have the 1 MW test results released to the world asap. Moreover, it would be very useful if Mr. Rossi cleared up any possible misconceptions about the nature and location of
    the test facility.

    • Mats002

      Agree, but the world transformation will take decades – remember how long it took to replace all horses with cars.

      Disruptive? Well yes but not near instantly. Release it now!

      • Brent Buckner

        The first cars weren’t as good as horses on many dimensions – not so respective of the claimed performance of the 1MW reactor versus its substitutes. Replacement timeframes may be different.

        • Sanjeev

          Horses are still better. They are all terrain vehicles with a good amount of AI and self driving/collision avoidance capabilities. The fuel is environment friendly non polluting grass. Some essentials are missing such as built in horn and lights, but that’s minor compared to the natural leather seat and voice activated breaks.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            How did my serious post degenerate into a discussion of horses? In any case this is 2016, not 1902.

          • Sanjeev

            Your post is very good actually. Thanks.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Well okay. Anyway, that bit of horse discussion was interesting and intelligent.

          • Mats002

            Yes, thanks Fibber!

          • NT

            Yes, I like my horse too!

          • Omega Z

            ->”The fuel is environment friendly non polluting grass.”
            There are greenies that would profusely disagree with that.

      • Sanjeev

        Cars may have replaced horses, but not bullocks and donkeys, that are still being used as main means of transportation in India and Africa and third world.
        They do enjoy mobile phones with 3G internet while riding them to work Btw.

      • IanMac

        The last disruptive technology took 9 years from commercial availability to 90% market penetration.

        Whats that you ask – the camera in the mobile phone!

        Each new disruptive technology is quicker this one will take 7 years. The only problem I have now is spotting the start, which is the first commercial product – was it the 250 day test piece?

        • Mats002

          If it really produced fish food for sale then yes.

          • NT

            Apple did a pretty fast job with the iPhone revolution. I expect once the home cat+ is in the marketplace a similar saturation time frame will take place – I hope…

    • Gerard McEk

      I very much agree with your words Fibber, the questions is under which conditions MFMP would agee doing this and would AR agree with that?

      • Alan Smith

        AR doen’t feel the need for more replications. The bar for truth and accuracy would be set too high for a didtant court to accept them. He claims to have proof and good witnesses to the fact that IH independently replicated the ECat based on his information and that IH showed other investors Ecats they claimed to have built themselves and that they worked.
        So no fears that MFMP or anyone else will be required to step up yet.

        • Omega Z

          It appears that it was Industrial heats employees that built/assembled the 1MW plant from Fulvio Fabiani’s interview with Mats L. And likely, Rossi’s primary contribution was the filling of the Fuel charge. Remember, Fulvio Fabiani is also on Industrial heats payroll.

          • At the time the original 1MW plant was assembled, Industrial Heat was a notional company – a shell within Cherokee Investment Fund for attracting and managing investment funds, and physically, probably a desk and computer in a corner of Cherokee’s offices somewhere. It’s unlikely they had any suitable engineering facilities. This means they either acquired an engineering company, subbed the work out to one, or used the facilities of another of their LENR teams, perhaps Brillouin.

            Whichever it is will obviously have full knowledge of the LT technology, apart perhaps from the exact composition of the ‘fuel’. Even so, what’s the betting that samples were obtained and analysed. The same might apply to the later 1MW reactors, and possibly to ecat X, if the same facility was used to produce the prototypes for this.

            So Cherokee probably have most if not all the information they need to replicate Rossi, and so saw no need to give him his $89M. Rossi’s reaction must have been a bit of a surprise.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    At the moment I believe Mr. Rossi because I.H.’s actions don’t equate with the e-cat invention not performing (just as Mr. Rossi has pointed out in making his case). Aside from that, why would I.H. (or
    anyone with half a brain) prolong the 1 MW reactor tests for almost a year if the reactor wasn’t performing? That’s just plain nuts!

    The more information that’s out there the better for Mr. Rossi’s case. He has the truth on his side (I think) and it’s best the truth get out there sooner rather than later.

    If Mr. Rossi provided MFMP a bit of information (only information) to help their independent replication
    activity succeed in a few weeks (if not sooner), this would dramatically increase world interest in bringing about justice to resolve this conflict quickly and honestly. It would, in other words, help ensure that Mr.
    Rossi triumphs quickly and delivers his invention to humanity sooner rather than later.

    This invention will transform the world. It can’t be swept under the carpet. It must not be unduly delayed.

    It would also help a lot to have the 1 MW test results released to the world asap. Moreover, it would be very useful if Mr. Rossi cleared up any possible misconceptions about the nature and location of
    the test facility.

    • Mats002

      Agree, but the world transformation will take decades – remember how long it took to replace all horses with cars.

      Disruptive? Well yes but not near instantly. Release it now!

      • Brent Buckner

        The first cars weren’t as good as horses on many dimensions – not so respective of the claimed performance of the 1MW reactor versus its substitutes. Replacement timeframes may be different.

        • Sanjeev

          Horses are still better. They are all terrain vehicles with a good amount of AI and self driving/collision avoidance capabilities. The fuel is environment friendly non polluting grass. Some essentials are missing such as built in horn and lights, but that’s minor compared to the natural leather seat and voice activated breaks.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            How did my serious post degenerate into a discussion of horses? In any case this is 2016, not 1902.

          • Sanjeev

            Your post is very good actually. Thanks.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Well okay. Anyway, that bit of horse discussion was interesting and intelligent.

          • Mats002

            Yes, thanks Fibber!

          • NT

            Yes, I like my horse too!

          • Omega Z

            ->”The fuel is environment friendly non polluting grass.”
            There are greenies that would profusely disagree with that.

      • Sanjeev

        Cars may have replaced horses, but not bullocks and donkeys, that are still being used as main means of transportation in India and Africa and third world.
        They do enjoy mobile phones with 3G internet while riding them to work Btw.

      • IanMac

        The last disruptive technology took 9 years from commercial availability to 90% market penetration.

        Whats that you ask – the camera in the mobile phone!

        Each new disruptive technology is quicker this one will take 7 years. The only problem I have now is spotting the start, which is the first commercial product – was it the 250 day test piece?

        • Mats002

          If it really produced fish food for sale then yes.

          I doubt your 7 year prediction though, because the quicker market penetration can not increase indefinitly, the underlying reason is faster and wider communication and there is an upper limit as is also true for Moores law in computers.

          • NT

            Apple did a pretty fast job with the iPhone revolution. I expect once the home cat+ is in the marketplace a similar saturation time frame will take place – I hope…

          • clovis ray

            Mats,
            Quit, throwing cold water on the E-CAT, you will give it a cold .
            You know darn well , Dr. Rossi said the product will be on the market this year or first of next, what do you think, he doesn’t know what he is talking about, he has a great wealth of knowledge about marketing, i would say he knows something you don’t, no he knows a he_l of a lot more than you,

    • Gerard McEk

      I very much agree with your words Fibber, the questions is under which conditions MFMP would agee doing this and would AR agree with that?

      • Alan Smith

        AR doen’t feel the need for more replications. The bar for truth and accuracy would be set too high for a didtant court to accept them. He claims to have proof and good witnesses to the fact that IH independently replicated the ECat based on his information and that IH showed other investors Ecats they claimed to have built themselves and that they worked.
        So no fears that MFMP or anyone else will be required to step up yet.

        • Omega Z

          It appears that it was Industrial heats employees that built/assembled the 1MW plant from Fulvio Fabiani’s interview with Mats L. And likely, Rossi’s primary contribution was the filling of the Fuel charge. Remember, Fulvio Fabiani is also on Industrial heats payroll.

          • At the time the original 1MW plant was assembled, Industrial Heat was a notional company – a shell within Cherokee Investment Fund for attracting and managing investment funds, and physically, probably a desk and computer in a corner of Cherokee’s offices somewhere. It’s unlikely they had any suitable engineering facilities to use, which would mean that they either acquired an engineering company, subbed the work out to one, or used the facilities of another of their LENR teams, perhaps Brillouin.

            Whichever it is will obviously have full knowledge of the LT technology, apart perhaps from the exact composition of the ‘fuel’. Even so, what’s the betting that samples were obtained and analysed in that case. The same might apply to the later 1MW reactors, and possibly to ecat X, if the same facility was used to produce the prototypes for these.

            So Cherokee probably have most if not all the information they need to replicate Rossi, even if he didn’t hand it over, and saw no need to give him his $89M. If that’s the case, Rossi’s reaction must have been a bit of a surprise.

  • A couple of weeks ago I would have probably suggested that this might not be a good idea because it could compromise IH/Rossi’s plans to stay low key until they were ready to go to market – but for obvious reasons I now fully agree. It’s time to use any opportunity that presents itself to increase public awareness that cold fusion is a valid solution to our energy needs.

  • Bob

    My suggestion is to not get too excited…I am a believer in historical evidence being very indicative of the present… Not 100% but very indicative. Consider the following :
    .
    1) I would state that almost all of Rossi’s “says” are always extremely exaggerated, perhaps not so much by him but those on this blog. We have heard of massive, robotized factories at least 3 times before and of dates only months in the future. 2012 was going to change the world. None have came to past. I see little to make this one any different.
    .
    2) Has everyone forgotten about certification? There are none and I am not talking about the Home eCat. The ERV turned out to be a lone, sole consultant. No UL, no governing body, no association. No certification, no test standards,… nothing. There will have to be work place certification for the 1mw plant to be put in place. None of the currently published “Certifications” that has been listed for the eCat are valid for legal occupation. I have read them. I still state that there is no established standards to certify an unknown nuclear powered water heater to.
    .
    3) Who will buy one? There is no existing customer to give reference. The year long test was not an existing company and certainly not independent. Perhaps Rossi can put a plant in place free of charge and sell heat but not many are going to purchase a $1-1/2 million dollar heater when a $100 million dollar lawsuit is claiming it does not work is under litigation! There will be no mass production until that lawsuit is cleared up and settled.
    .
    Look at the history… Rossi makes unlikely statements and then they get inflated to even higher, unbelievable levels here…… Cherokee / Darden has a long history of competent and respected business partnerships, dealings and successes. All of Rossi’s past associations have turned into either chaos (Defkalion and now IH) or a walking away. (NASA, Siemens, National Instruments, etc.)
    .
    History does not 100% mean that Rossi cannot deliver and certainly does not give credence that Cherokee / Darden has suddenly “turned to the darkside” and become evil mobsters. But history does reveal tendencies and can give us some perspective of the present. Look at the history of the two parties via unbiased eyes… fool me once, shame on you… fool be thrice…. shame on ME!. What does each track record of the two parties tell?
    .
    I want to be completely positive, but there is too much history to ignore. ERV turned out to be very minor and not independant, secret customer turned out to be extremely questionable and again not independent, the “big reveal” of the year long 1mw plant test turned out to be a $100 million dollar negative lawsuit. None of this episode of the eCat is positive. I am not very excited at this time. 🙁
    .

    • Michael W Wolf

      Most of your comment seems reasonable to me Bob. Rossi is now under oath and subject to perjury. With all of those great points you’ve made, I still will side with Rossi and see if he can prove it to the jury.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Michael my issue with proving this to the jury is the fact that without independent verification (which we know now is not the case), there is really no way for a jury to make a fair judgement when they learn of Rossi’s ties to the ERV. Think about it from this perspective….this site is full of brilliant people…some of them engineers..and some even scientists in some form or fashion, yet even this collective group cannot determine whether E-Cat works or not….how is a jury of laypersons supposed to make a valid correct judgement on the reality of E-Cat?

        • Bob

          I suppose the devil in the detail will be the report from Penon. (A side note… is ERV a Rossi says? I have done a little web searching and have found no reference to such a title. Not a big deal but it has been splashed around here like it is a PHD title or something! 🙂
          .
          The Lugano report at first was news of joy… it turned out to be questionable at best and a complete bust at worst. Actual credible LENR scientists, such as at MFMP have publicly shown it to be flawed and in great error.
          .
          If the 1 year report is likewise invalid as Lugano, lacking documented data or simply bad, IH layers will tear it apart….Just imagine… they bring in MIT who will be happy to shoot it full of holes. Who will Rossi’s lawyers provide to counter? A bad report will doom Rossi most likely.
          .
          So a bad report will make it easy for IH to sway a jury in one direction. If the report is rock solid, then Rossi should win, but no guarantee. Look at the OJ Simpson trial.
          Juries do not always get to make the correct decision.
          .
          Some have said that a jury request was a good move on Rossi’s part. Evil Corporation against frail, elderly inventor. Sympathy votes could come to play. Look how much some on this blog defend Rossi no matter what! A jury could do the same.
          .
          Again, I have to wait… until the report comes out, the jury is in and the real story is known. We just do not know all the facts yet! (Regardless of what Mr. Clovis says!)

          • Alex Fenrick

            Excellent perspective Bob…the only thing I would note is that even if there is a report by the ERV (nonsense Rossi-term) that shows substantiated claim….the fact that the ERV is turning out to be no so very independent will nullify that as proof. The problem here for Rossi is that no one should believe the ERV at this point because of conflict of interest due to the connections. The fact that IH may have known about the connection between Rossi and the ERV is irrelevant to it being a conflict of interest. Because the law suit has been initiated at this point, Rossi doesn’t even have an opportunity to show proof of concept after the suit filing…all evidence and discovery will be up till the minute he filed the law suit. I really do not see an upside to this for Rossi as it will be very difficult to battle any expert witness if asked about the ERV connection even if the report is favorable for Rossi. That’s the way I see it at this point in this hourly changing game…

        • Omega Z

          It appears the only people skeptics will accept as independent is those who believe LENR is impossible. And thus wont even attempt to replicate the E-cat. LENR is a total waste of time.

          So Whats up with Industrial Heat. They know the E-cat works at high COP. The statement of unsubstantiated is BS. They had their people in that container for a year. They would have pulled the plug long before if it was not performing as intended. Seriously, Who would even invest in a 1MW pilot plant without knowing for a fact that a single 10KW reactor produced excess heat.

          This unsubstantiated BS is all about delaying the technology. Merely listen to people like Al Gore who is in the loop and Bill Gates who is investing in LENR. They indicate maybe in 15 years. That is not a guess. It is their agenda. Their timeline. They don’t want it before then as it doesn’t fit their grand design. They also don’t want it coming from a nobody. It has to come from their Ivory Towers.

          • This seems highly likely. Rossi is trying to break free of the corporate agenda that IH may (sadly) be a part of, probably by tying himself to another horse.

            Depending on who his new backers are, or if he has none, he may have put himself in physical danger by doing so. The history of lone inventors who challenge the status quo isn’t encouraging. If he’s on his own, or his new backers have little power, he will need to act very quickly and decisively, or be removed from the game one way or another.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Omega that is such an erroneous statement that I don’t think anyone here would agree with…skeptic or not. Intelligent skeptics correctly accept INDEPENDENT research…not research carried out by an individual who is associated with the project creator. That is 100% a conflict of interest for skeptics and even in a legal realm. I think you must be misunderstanding the connection Rossi has to the tester and how that is an absolute conflict of interest. Even supporters of Rossi on here are agreeing it was not the best choice. Some are trying distraction methods by saying that IH knew there was a connection too, but that is incidental. It doesn’t matter for Rossi’s case if they knew or not….either way it invalidates the testing and harms Rossi’s reputation. Without INDEPENDENT analysis….we have zero substantiation of claim…plain and simple.

    • clovis ray

      well, well, bob still trying to distort the facts,
      #1 WRONG, the factory is being outfitted with robo as we speak,
      #2 it already certified in europe, certification here was dependant up on the year long test. Dr, R was the guinea pig he lived side by side with his kitties for one full year with no ill effects, safe enough i would say. and the test was not supposed to be independent, it was a private performance test to fulfill his part of the contract, it was an overwhelming success, I/H did not have the agreed upon amount of 86,mill, breach of contract,
      End of that story, all bets are off, now comes the fact they tried to patent his design, and got caught with their britches down, the bad guys lose .

      The new fire is back in the maker’s hands, all things works to his pleasure.
      Thought i was talking about Dr. R didn’t you. ha,ha,

      • Alex Fenrick

        Clovis….#1 WRONG again…no one has proof of the factory being outfitted with robo as we speak…do you have proof? #2 Wrong as well. Who did this European certification and where are the results? While bets may be off for Rossi and IH to ever work together…this is far from the end of the story. Hopefully we will see WHO was the one with the briches down….no clear indication at all that it is IH at this point.

      • Rogerborg

        “it already certified in europe”

        To what standard? By whom? For what purpose?

        • clovis ray

          Hi,
          Look, you will have to do your on research, if you ask Frank, and if he has time he would know where that bit of info is, but the certification org is one of or the most used in europe, just can’t put an abbreviation on it sorry,

          • Frank Acland

            SGS is the certifying agency he used.

          • clovis ray

            Many, thanks, Frank,

    • Alex Fenrick

      Excellent assessment Bob…ignoring the historical track record of Both Rossi and Cherokee/Darden in analysis of this situation makes for a completely erroneous and biased perspective. Not only does the old adage “fool me once” come to mind, but we may be seeing one of the best examples of the boy who cried wolf here. Whether IH knew about the situation with the ERV or not (ties etc)….either way Rossi is the one who looses credibility and looks bad by not establishing fully independent verification, especially since the ties are to HIM. He could not have picked a better way to have fingers of doubt pointed at him if he tried with that decision. My gut tells me this litigation will drag on for years and Rossi will choose to continue his questionable methods giving the public no real proof of operation as he has for years. The fact that he takes such convoluted routes for proof of concept over simple independent verification does not sit well with me….and really is quite telling I believe.

    • Voted up, mostly for (2), although the rest is a good cautionary summary (but perhaps rather too condemnatory of Rossi). I have droned on about the absolutely crucial safety certification issue repeatedly but with very little response, or bland assertions that this is a minor concern. People don’t want rain on their parade I guess.

      However (on the brighter side, and as I’ve also said) gaining safety certification for a small device that makes electricity by consuming hydrogen and lithium (‘quark’) is likely to be far easier than for a large industrial boiler powered by novel reactors. It might even be possible to slip one through on fuel cell codes, but otherwise a new Standard will have to be commissioned from BSI or DIN (assuming development moves outside of the US to avoid debris from the court case). Probably best at this stage not to mention putting multiple wafer units together to make a plant of any required size.

  • Jerry Soloman

    There could still be a cash settlement – when Tom Darden realizes that if they attempt to use Rossi IP that they will find themselves back in court and no investor will touch Darden the way it stands.

    everyone NOW knows that Brillouin Energy Corp & Industrial Heat are in bed together.

    We also know that Brillouin Energy Corp is using IP that is owned by Dr Rossi.

    • clovis ray

      HI, Jerry.
      I also wonder who else is in the I/H camp, do you think they will be able to continue with any further operation,in building industrial e-cat,
      i don’t think Dr.Rossi, will be deterred in his production.

      • jousterusa

        That;s a good question, Ray. I think Brad Pitt is a pretty legitimate guy who would be pretty disappointed if he found out the technology he has put a million dollars behind is in the process of being stolen from the inventor and exploited illegally on several continents.

        • roseland67

          Jouster,
          Kinda like Jevin Bacon and Bernie Madoff?

  • Michael W Wolf

    Most of your comment seems reasonable to me Bob. Rossi is now under oath and subject to perjury. With all of those great points you’ve made, I still will side with Rossi and see if he can prove it to the jury.

  • Eyedoc

    See my comment above……..this may be all to get it out public ( I can wish, can’t I ??)

  • jousterusa

    That;s a good question, Ray. I think Brad Pitt is a pretty legitimate guy who would be pretty disappointed if he found out the technology he has put a million dollars behind is in the process of being stolen from the inventor and exploited illegally on several continents.

  • John

    Given the size and experience of Cherokee and IH ( Darden and Vaughn), the most likely reason they would not honor the agreement is they believe there is concrete proof the test results are invalid. I believe AR is being honest, but I still want to know IH’s basis for not honoring the agreement. Until they make their side known, all our speculation is pointless. After all, we are only hearing one side of the story.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Then why do they contend the contract still stands?
      Then why do they patent the technology?
      They why do they say that there will be no delay in product going to market?

      By making this defense for them you at the same time making a case for them being false.

      • cashmemorz

        Because the actual scenario, at least as I interpret it, is the way that IH uses the word “unsubstantiated”. What IH means by this term goes back to the process that IH has set in motion to make the validation “bullet-proof”. To do this, as I have put it together, is that the E-Cat process in ALL its details has been given to a third, totally independent party to validate. So totally independent that IH cannot even tell AR what IH is doing in this regard. So AR is totally ignorant about this activity. Now, since the third party testing for validation purposes has not been finished as yet, then IH can say that the E-Cat test has not been substantiated and is only waiting for this to be finished. Because IH is waiting for the results of this third party test, validation, IH is therefore saying that everyone has to listen only on the word of IH as to what is actually happening, because only IH knows what is going on in this regard. Then, also, this is why AR is acting the way he is(paranoid about why IH has not paid AR. AR is acting from lack of knowledge about why IH is acting the way they are. If AR knew he would just wait. Since AR doesn’t know, he sees IH as acting strangely or deviously. Further to this scenario, I expect that IH DOES have the $89m, only not in escrow in some bank just allocated for AR in house. This scenario, to me, ties up all loose ends in a more congenial manner than all of the mean spirited, “get Rossi” views floating around this blog. The only and main stumbling block in this scenario, is how long will it take for that “third” party ” to finish the validation and provide their own, 4th, report.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Then why do they contend the contract still stands?
    Then why do they patent the technology?
    They why do they say that there will be no delay in product going to market?

    By making this defense for them you at the same time making a case for them being false.

    • cashmemorz

      Because the actual scenario, at least as I interpret it, is the way that IH uses the word “unsubstantiated”. What IH means by this term goes back to the process that IH has set in motion to make the validation “bullet-proof”. To do this, as I have put it together, is that the E-Cat process in ALL its details has been given to a third, totally independent party to validate. So totally independent that IH cannot even tell AR what IH is doing in this regard. So AR is totally ignorant about this activity. Now, since the third party testing for validation purposes has not been finished as yet, then IH can say that the E-Cat test has not been substantiated and is only waiting for this to be finished. Because IH is waiting for the results of this third party test, validation, IH is therefore saying that everyone has to listen only on the word of IH as to what is actually happening, because only IH knows what is going on in this regard. Then, also, this is why AR is acting the way he is(paranoid about why IH has not paid AR. AR is acting from lack of knowledge about why IH is acting the way they are. If AR knew he would just wait. Since AR doesn’t know, he sees IH as acting strangely or deviously. Further to this scenario, I expect that IH DOES have the $89m, only not in escrow in some bank just allocated for AR in house. This scenario, to me, ties up all loose ends in a more congenial manner than all of the mean spirited, “get Rossi” views floating around this blog.

  • cashmemorz

    Andrea Rossi maybe picked that particular building because it already had “his” name on it to save making a sign. And a false positive clue for anyone searching for his actual location of the E-Cat.

  • Alex Fenrick

    An investment advertisement? Is the the comment section of TMZ or something?? Moderators…I believe this one slipped by you…this needs to be deleted and those email addresses added to blacklists.

  • Alex Fenrick

    An investment advertisement? Is the the comment section of TMZ or something?? Moderators…I believe this one slipped by you…this needs to be deleted and those email addresses added to blacklists.

  • Omega Z

    It appears the only people skeptics will accept as independent is those who believe LENR is impossible. And thus wont even attempt to replicate the E-cat. LENR is a total waste of time.

    So Whats up with Industrial Heat. They know the E-cat works at high COP. The statement of unsubstantiated is BS. They had their people in that container for a year. They would have pulled the plug long before if it was not performing as intended. Seriously, Who would even invest in a 1MW pilot plant without knowing for a fact that a single 10KW reactor produced excess heat.

    This unsubstantiated BS is all about delaying the technology. Merely listen to people like Al Gore who is in the loop and Bill Gates who is investing in LENR. They indicate maybe in 15 years. That is not a guess. It is their agenda. Their timeline. They don’t want it before then as it doesn’t fit their grand design. They also don’t want it coming from a nobody. It has to come from their Ivory Towers.

    • This seems highly likely. Rossi is trying to break free of the corporate agenda by tying himself to another horse.

      Depending on who his new backers are, he may have put himself in physical danger by doing so. If he has none, history indicates that he will need to act very quickly and decisively, or be removed from the game one way or another.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Omega that is such an erroneous statement that I don’t think anyone here would agree with…skeptic or not. Intelligent skeptics correctly accept INDEPENDENT research…not research carried out by an individual who is associated with the project creator. That is 100% a conflict of interest for skeptics and even in a legal realm. I think you must be misunderstanding the connection Rossi has to the tester and how that is an absolute conflict of interest. Even supporters of Rossi on here are agreeing it was not the best choice. Some are trying distraction methods by saying that IH knew there was a connection too, but that is incidental. It doesn’t matter for Rossi’s case if they knew or not….either way it invalidates the testing and harms Rossi’s reputation. Without INDEPENDENT analysis….we have zero substantiation of claim…plain and simple.

  • Voted up, mostly for (2). I have droned on about this repeatedly but with very little response. People don’t want rain on their parade I guess.

    However (on the brighter side, and as I’ve also said) gaining safety certification for a small device that makes electricity by consuming hydrogen and lithium (‘quark’) is likely to be far easier than for a large industrial boiler powered by novel reactors. It might even be possible to get one through on fuel cell codes, but otherwise a new Standard will have to be commissioned from BSI or DIN (assuming development moves outside of the US to avoid debris from the court case). Probably best not to mention putting units together to make a plant of any required size at this stage.

  • Rogerborg

    “it already certified in europe”

    To what standard? By whom? For what purpose?

  • Jas

    Going back over some of the old posts from a few weeks ago can shed new light on what Rossi was expecting to happen. For instance: http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/25/rossi-leonardo-warship-ready-with-robotics-to-rapidly-produce-low-price-e-cats/
    He says he wants to beat ALL his competitors. At the time I don’t think any of us thought that one of the main competitors would be IH.

  • Frank Acland

    SGS is the certifying agency he used.

  • roseland67

    What does this mean, exactly?
    “Brake now removed, production will be accelerated”
    what a steaming Pile of hooey,
    Yes, I said hooey.