E-Cat 1MW Plant Test Results Watch Thread (Update #6 — AR: Report 26 Pages Long, Hopes For Release "As Soon as Possible")

We had a LONG thread dedicated to the 1MW E-Cat plant results thread, which we were finally able to put to bed when the test was announced to be completed on February 17th, 2016.

I hope now we can have a much shorter thread as we now wait for the results of the test. It’s a high-stakes time, and I would imagine quite high pressure for all involved, as E-Cat technology could prove to be revolutionary, and disruptive in many ways to the existing order of things throughout the world in terms of energy production.

UPDATE #6 (April 20th, 2016)

Andrea Rossi was asked today on the JONP how many pages long the ERV report is. Here is his response:

Andrea Rossi
April 20, 2016 at 7:30 AM
Stefania Conti:
1- the report has been written by the ERV accepted and paid both by IH and Leonardo Corp
2- the ERV is a nuclear engineer (doctorate obtained from the Unoversity of Bologna with 110/110 summa cum laude)
3- the ERV has experience of nuclear power plants and of certifications and validations; has worked with Bureau Veritas and CGS
4- the report is the synopsis of 12 600 000 data: to have an idea of what this means, printing these data on paper it would need 66 000 pages
The whole has been resumed in 26 pages of report. I hope my attorney will give me green light as soon as possible
Warm Regards,
A.R.

UPDATE #5

While we wait for something official to be published, I guess we’ll have to take any scrap of information we can get. Here’s a Q&A from the JONP today:

Dear Andrea:
Can you say, at least, if the COP measured in the Report is higher than 1.5 ?

Andrea Rossi
April 3, 2016 at 10:40 PM
Maggie:
Yes, I can say that.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Even if the very lowest overall COP achieved was 1.51 (1.51 times more energy output than input over the course of a 352 day test), it would make this test a massive success if we compare it to any hot fusion test that has been carried out so far, where the best result been able to achieve more energy output than input for a fraction of a second.

UPDATE #4

Andrea Rossi has provided a bit of a profile of the ERV:

Rex
March 29, 2016 at 10:58 PM
Dr Andrea Rossi:
Can you give us the characteristics of the ERV ?
1- age AR: around 50- 55
2- education: AR: Doctorate in Nuclear Engineering
3- professional experience AR: Nuclear Power Plants
4- has also due experience in certification of plants? AR: yes
5- who paid his work and all his expenses ? AR: fifty-fifty Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat
Thank you if you can answer,
Regards
Rex

UPDATE #3

Andrea Rossi made this announcement on the Journal of Nuclear Physics Today:

Andrea Rossi
March 29, 2016 at 1:44 PM
DEAR READERS:
WE HAVE RECEIVED RIGHT NOW THE ERV’S REPORT WHICH HAS BEEN DELIVERED TO INDUSTRIAL HEAT AND TO MYSELF.
While I cannot release the report publicaly at this time, I can state that I am very pleased with the results.
I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly in the near future.
May God help us for the hard work waiting for us all.
Warm Regards,
Dr Andrea Rossi, CEO of Leonardo Corporation

We’ll only have to wait 10 days max according to Andrea Rossi on the JONP:

gregha
March 29, 2016 at 2:18 PM
If not a full release of the ERV report, how about a synopsis?

Andrea Rossi
March 29, 2016 at 4:12 PM
Gregha:
Yes, I will publish it within a tenth of days, anyway.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

UPDATE #2 (March 19, 2016)

This email came to me from Mats Lewan today, because I had pre-registered for the New Energy World Symposium:

– “The final decision to hold the symposium has not yet been taken—official results of the one-year test of a 1-MW heat plant based on the new energy technology have not yet been reported but are expected at the latest at mid-April.”

“About 220 individuals have pre-registered, among them several who asked if it could be extended into a two-day event. Therefore, plans are now being made for a two-day event on June 21-22, with additional speakers and more opportunities to network with other attendeees. However, there will still be an option to attend the first day only.”

I’m not sure where Mats is getting his information about when the official results are to be expected — I wonder if he has heard something.

UPDATE — Mats Lewan wrote below: “Rossi told me what he also wrote at JoNP, that the ERV had committed to deliver the report within two months, which would be mid-April since the test was concluded on February 17.”

UPDATE #1 (March 16, 2016)

Mats Lewan posted this on the LENR-Forum here:

“Ok, I can now confirm that Rossi will attend the New Energy World Symposium, not as a speaker but interviewed by me on stage. In connection to the symposium, at a separate event, he says he will have some important announcements to make. No date defined. The decision to hold the symposium, however, still depends on the result of the one-year 1MW test being released and positive. Plans are proceeding meanwhile and there are now more than 200 attendees pre-registered. I’m also considering making it a two-day event, June 21-22, with an option to attend one day only”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I’ll kick off the thread with an exchange on the Journal of Nuclear Physics between Peter Gluck and Andrea Rossi:

Peter Gluck
March 14, 2016 at 11:14 AM
Dear Andrea,

Please think about the possibility to help the LENR World to celebrate the 27th anniversary of the field (March 23) with a decisive victory. You could do this by publication of the Executive Summary of the ERV Report or even better the balance energy bought vs energy sold made by the accountant of the Customer during the 350 days of the experiment as I have asked on my blog yesterday.
Wishing you a long triumphal technology march,

Peter

Andrea Rossi
March 14, 2016 at 12:44 PM
Peter Gluck:
Thank you for your kind suggestion, I will see what I can do with the agreement of all the involved parties.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I assume that “all the involved parties” would include Leonardo Corp., Industrial Heat, the customer who was using the energy from the 1MW plant, and the ERV (the independent expert responsible for validation). Rossi sounds quite positive to Peter’s suggestion here.

  • wpj

    I am convinced that PG already knows the results from the leaked version of the executive summary (“just under 40,000…….”) but is trying to backtrack.

    • LarryJ

      Is there a leaked executive summary or just an unsubstantiated rumour of a leaked executive summary.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Peter Metz, good question, interesting answer:

    Peter Metz

    March 14, 2016 at 12:21 AM

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    Thank you for taking the time and effort to continue to answer my questions about the E-Cat. While we continue waiting patiently (!) for information from the ERV report, I have another question related to the manufacture of the E-Cats. The question is: when the time comes will the E-Cats manufactured by Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat (or any other manufacturer) be the same or will they be different in some way (but possibly to the same specifications). Or perhaps I am mistaken, will only Leonardo Corporation manufacture the E-Cats? Thanks again for answering my questions.

    Sincerely,

    Peter Metz

    Translate

    Andrea Rossi

    March 14, 2016 at 9:46 AM

    Peter Metz:

    So far the sole industries that can manufacture the E-Cat so far are Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Ged

      This is actual quite an interesting answer for a particular reason. A sales licensee may be able to sell a product like any retailer, but to be able and allowed to manufacture a product is a whole other level. It is also interesting to know IH has the functional capacity and know-how for e-cat production.

      • LuFong

        The answer is also interesting because Rossi didn’t really answer the question, i.e. whether both entities will be making exact products or different versions of the same thing. Are Leonardo and IH taking separate tracks in the manufacturing or are they coordinating? My guess is that you will see different products from each. Who knows, maybe IH decides to build something based on Brillouin technology or some Hybrid while Rossi of course uses only his technology.

        • Ged

          Or they are aiming at different markets. IH may make the industrial units, while Rossi persues domestic use with the e-cat x. At this rate, Leonardo may become a pure R&D branch for further e-cat advancement and not actually produce end products.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Rossi is a good entrepreneur, if he gave IH an exclusive to manufacture except for Leonardo, he is threatening or actually going ahead with Leonardo manufacturing. IH is playing all kinds of games.

          • Lux Terrea

            They need to piss or get off the pot.

          • Mats002

            Very well put.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Right, and apparently IH, for now, has an exclusive to manufacture, except for Leonardo. Is this exclusive part of IH’s agreement with Leonardo?

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I think Rossi been quite fair and clear
    here.

    Rossi for ZERO reason did not have to
    add he will NOT speak about results until they are published UNLESS GOOD reason
    exists to state so!

    In other words, Rossi basically stating
    that he cannot and will not speak about results until such time they are published.
    Rossi could not be CLEARER that knowledge of the results, receiving the ERV
    report and publication of the results are SEPARATE events.

    Rossi been running the plant for a year –
    he already knows the performance and results anyway!

    It not Rossi’s call or choice to publish
    the results, or as to when they are to be published. And Rossi never implied as
    such either. Rossi receiving the report is NOT the same as to when publication
    will occur.

    Rossi stating “I see what I can do” is
    simply him admitting that publication of the ERV is NOT his call or under his
    control.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Michael W Wolf

      And the whole time, being slandered and accused of fraud. And yet, tried to help those who believed. And doesn’t seem to have one bitter bone in his body about it. He is a better man than I. I hope when he changes the world he will be rewarded appropriately.

      • DrD

        Agree completely. Don’t forget though, his solicitors have the cases (slander I assume) in preparation and waiting patiently.

      • psi2u2

        He did call the slanderers snakes….! But yes, I agree. He has been very poised overall.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Dr. Rossi long ago pulled most of us in this forum from our sleep and kept us in tune
    with his advances by providing information on the e-cat’s progress during the
    long climb from the elementary days of years ago and up to this moment when the
    breakthrough has finally been achieved. There has always been an
    implied promise that he would not abandon his followers at the ultimate moment by not providing the final result of his (and our) long journey together.

  • e-dog

    February Global Temperatures…
    This technology, information and knowledge that Rossi and Co are keeping to their chests needs to be released..

    If I had the knowledge I would be sharing with all those interested, because I know that teamwork, collaboration and basically more brain power will produce a faster result.

    I Imagine if I was Alexander Fleming in 1928 and had discovered penicillin and didnt share it with the world… I sat on it and tweaked it, researched it, tried to make it better, mass produce it and figured how to capitalise on my discovery… all by myself.. while at the same time telling people I had a cure!!!

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/februarys-hot-temperatures-indicate-a-climate-emergency/news-story/1967997a0c992c5c6b518c489d9e42df?sv=da07b298b65eacba7694069ef2f316c9

  • Gerard McEk

    The answer suggests a positive result!

  • Stephen

    Thanks Peter. You found the words to ask just the right question and got a good reply that we can all hope for. I suppose it’s in their hands now. After all those years of your amazing and intelligent blog I hope the answer from the other involved parties is a good one too.

  • jimbo92107

    I wonder if Popular Science will be the first magazine to cover this story. That’s where I found out that I’d be flying a car to work by the turn of the century… Will the cover say, “Cold Fusion: It Works!”

    • Bob Greenyer

      I know they have an article ready and they are waiting for either:

      – our exact replication (if successful)
      – SKINR successful replication
      – Independent report that is of reputable authenticity
      – Other reputable replication

      Before they publish.

      I think that the Financial Times is also sitting on a story.

      • we-cat

        Dear Bob,

        How do you know?

        Thanks,

        JB

        • Mats002

          Yes – how do you know? 🙂

          • Bruce Williams

            I have, with Frank’s support, been in contact with the Science Editor of the FT for about 2 years now. I have fed him extracts from this site on occasions when it seemed appropriate & I think he is well aware of what’s going on.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Because I have spoken at length with journalists from both organisations.

          • we-cat

            Bob,

            That is great news! The knowledge that another successful replication will trigger two positive MSM stories will further motivate the LENR Jedi’s.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The weak force is strong with this one.

          • we-cat

            Somebody has to say it;

            “May the weak force be with us!”

        • jimbo92107

          It would be pretty funny to find out that there were huge players in this game that we knew nothing about, and that there were multiple LENR tech announcements of which none of us were aware.

          But I don’t see the signs of an undercurrent of incipient tech breakthroughs. Where are the rumors? Things like this don’t remain a secret in our gossip-crazy species.

          • Owen Geiger

            One rumor was broadcast on Jamie Martinez’s Cold Fusion Now radio. One or two years ago he said there was at least one company working on LENR completely in the shadows (no publicity, working in secret). Has anyone heard an update on that rumor?
            http://coldfusionnow.org/cold-fusion-radio/

          • Bob Greenyer

            New video will be up later today – encoding now on Youtube.

            It is entitled “Opening the door – Part 1”

            MUCH nicer audio thanks to the crowd funded 2nd hand radio mic!

          • artefact

            Opening the door – Part 1

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqyYYAXox4c

          • Stephen

            It’s a very interesting nicely done video definately has got me wondering about the implications.

      • Well don’t count on the popular press coverage amounting to much… my cold fusion work was featured in Wired Magazine back in 1998… and poof … in-spite of massive progress nothing came of it http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/03/wired-magazine-report-on-cold-fusion-includes-segment-on-my-work/

        • Mats002

          I understand ‘it sucks’, doing the right thing is not enough, the famous timing must be there too – and some luck…

        • Alan DeAngelis
        • Bob Greenyer

          And in January 2001 I made a website called “Staying Close” but the dot com crash killed it… It was to all intense and purpose FaceBook. 6 years later the market was ready.

          I don’t do FB. I’m not bitter, really 😉

          • Mats002

            A little you are 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            Ok… dammit you’re right!

            But I call it a blessing!

          • jimbo92107

            Nikola Tesla demonstrated his inventions in public all the time. Tesla loved demonstrations. I haven’t seen Rossi demonstrate any of his inventions to a public audience with free scrutiny.

            Rossi doesn’t behave like Tesla at all.

      • jimbo92107

        The transition period between now and tech adoption could be fraught with, shall we say, kitties and puppies. Others may prefer “massive global economic disruption,” but I prefer the vision of our little baby pets wrassling on the carpet. They’re so cute!

    • sam

      You would think Mats Ny Teknik
      magazine would be covering it.

  • psi2u2

    Its a good idea, Peter, a really good idea. Let’s hope they can pull it off.

  • Chris the 2nd

    Good Morning Everyone,

    You might be interested to know that Dr . Edmund Storms is on the Space Show tonight discussing LENR.

    Tuesday, March 15, 2016: 7-8:30 PM PDT (10-11:30 PM EDT, 9-10:30 PM CDT): We welcome back DR. EDMUND STORMS for updates with LENR.
    http://www.thespaceshow.com/

  • Gerard McEk

    What is the probability of F9<0?
    1. I believe that AR would not devote a year of his valuable time in a container if already ater say a half year the results were bad when you consider the COP. AR was often asked for an update and apart of some various moments of trouble quite a few times SSM was mentioned. Only at the end he mentioned that the efficiency was reducing. Also was the customer happy with the delivered heat. So I think the COP would be OK.
    2. The reliability might be an issue, but what is to expect of a first prototype? I dare say the although the 1 MW was for from perfect, this also couldn't be a serious breaking point for disqualifying the plant.
    3. Another issue comes from Bob Greenyer, suggesting that the ash may contain unstable elements (radioactive) due to the lengthy transmutation process. I would think that AR would know if a lengthy test may cause this and would surely not risked this happening during the one year operation.
    4. Issues out of the control of AR may be political, commercial and share holders pressure on IH. That may shift the result from positive to negative or the other way around. That may also delay the publication.
    So only some issues of point 4 may lead to F9<0 and disappoint us.
    I am sure there are many other issues you can think of. For now I am still optimistic, but maybe if I read yours, I will change.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I don’t care. if 1 watt extra than is allowed is produced, it is earth shattering.

    • Omega Z

      Industrial Heat’s own experts had full access for over a year.

      Who would built an expensive 1MW pilot plant without prior confirmation of an acceptable COP before hand? Who would continue an expensive test for 1 year if results were negative after the 1st couple months?

      They’ve had leakage on a regular bases, but that’s a simple fix. Just bring in those skilled in the art. Also the pilot plant is actually 2 in 1 setup in a large container for the test. A customer plant will be smaller and Rossi has also stated that engineering problems will need to be taken care of.

      For (F9)<0 would likely be control/stability issues. Simply more R&D.
      From a Rossi interview. Also note the Certification entity who also has Nuclear plant certification skills.
      ————————————————————————————-
      8. What have been the principal challenges to keeping this system operational?

      AR: Our principal challenge has been reliability, which means to keep the reactors working in a stable mode, producing energy 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. Our current system is the end result of thousands of earlier prototypes. The control system acquires data from the temperature, pressure and flow-metering gauges to regulate the operation of the E-Cats working in harmony. It is important for us to provide effective control and instrumentation, sufficient to keep the equipment working correctly, yet to avoid excessive or potentially faulty instrumentation that might compromise the reliability of the system in global operation. It is also imperative that the monitoring equipment provide the alarms and other information required by our safety certification company (SGS).

  • Lenuco LLC. seems to be one of the other LENR companies in which Industrial Heat invested!

    Some of George Miley’s Lenuco patents were transfered to Industrial Heat:

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2886-Miley-s-patents-and-a-heating-coil-patent-assigned-to-Industrial-Heat-Holding/

    • Bob Greenyer

      That is a serious move. Whilst the rest of the energy industry sleeps… IH is building its defences.

      This is not the action of an organisation loosing belief that the effect is real.

  • Yesterday I asked on JoNP whether the plant is still in operation.
    But my comment was not published 🙁

    Maybe the question was too direct.

    • wpj

      AR stated that they were recharging the reactors so presumably the client wanted to continue use.

      Andrea Rossi

      February 17, 2016 at 7:44 AM

      Blanche:

      Wed Feb 17 2016, 07.43 a.m.

      1 MW E-Cat : charges substitution on course

      E-Cat X: in good standing, very promising

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

      • BillH

        If that were true, the customer is happy, this would be big news, and no need for a report? However, the silence on this issue may be more telling.

        A bought product by a happy customer would undoubtedly be more important than any report, money talks!

    • Frank Acland

      It could be that he is no longer responsible for it, and it is in IH control now.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I remember this discussion vaguely. They could have kept it running as the catalyst was still not depleted. But remember something about servicing it. I was thinking why go with ecat. Maybe they are fitting it with ecatx’s But I do remember them saying they will still be running it.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    In my opinion, that is what Rossi is trying to prevent.

  • Gerard McEk

    The main problem of the E-cat may be that it cannot be controlled efficiently over a power range, just on-off. That is why AR is now developing the quark. By controlling many on-off one by one makes a big system controllable in a efficient way. That may also have been an issue with the 1 MW plant, but I obviously do not know what te contract with the client demanded.

  • Curious Swede

    Did another calculation on the energy delivered from the one year test. using the numbers in the slide “the Rossi effect” on the Hydrofusion homepage I came to the conclusion that aprox. 6.5 g He 4 has been created in the system. If this can be collected when opening the reactors it would be a simple way to prove that fusion has occurred. If so the forthcoming shortage of He will no longer be an issue for the world.

    • Mike Henderson

      Are you sure of that?

      6.5 g of 4He was produced from 1 g of H and 5.5 g of 7Li. (Plus 4 micrograms of mass converted to energy).

      Most reactors (Lugano, Parkhomov, MFMP glowsticks, other replicators) have contained tiny amounts of LiAlH4. Li makes up 18% by weight of LiAlH4, so maybe 15 – 25 mg of Li in a normal charge. To get 5.5 g of 7Li would require 20-30 reactors using 100% of their Li charge or 40-60 reactors using 50% … or a substantial increase in the amount of Li loaded as fuel in each reactor … or periodic replenishment of 7Li..

      I hope the referee’s report includes an analysis of the Li isotopic composition of the ash.

      • Maybe the test report is taking so long because they are doing fuel sample studies, which no doubt required the services of multiple outside labs.

  • Frank Acland
  • Teemu Soilamo

    ‘NEWS’ is a really unfortunate acronym, isn’t it?

    • akupaku

      “Nothing Ever Worth Saying”

      or

      “Never Ending Wonderful Story”?

      LOL ;o)

      • jimbo92107

        Now Even Worse Speculation?

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Nonconfirmed Equvoically Withstanding Scam (F9)

  • Alan Smith

    I really think it is important for Frank Acland to go to Stockholm – if only to report to every one here. And to make that happen http://www.Lookingforheat.com will kick off a travel fund for him with a donation of $100.00

    • Frank Acland

      Thank you very much for the generous pledge, Alan! I really appreciate it. Someone already sent me $100 via paypal, but I would prefer if anyone wishes to support this trip that they wait to send funds until we know for sure if the conference will go ahead.

      • psi2u2

        If this happens I will send some money also, Frank, tho’ I can’t send that much.

        • georgehants

          + $50.00
          It must go ahead as it seems Mr. Rossi has said he will be there.
          Only IH refusing to publish the report can now stop it, I think

    • Shiv Singh

      Hello Alan,
      I want to get in touch with you asap. I think I have the mechanism to start the lenr reaction reliably, and we need to get this going asap. Please contact me at [email protected]

      • Alan Smith

        Hi Shiv Singh. You have email.

  • Turning heat into electricity with carbon nanotubes could make an E-Cat car easier to build.

    http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/03/14/mit-scientists-tout-new-greener-battery-technology.html

    • Bob Matulis

      Thanks Christopher, that was a very interesting article. They don’t mention how heat could be transferred in a way that would efficiently “wave across” the nanotubes. Also, I understand how this could be huge if one had a mechanical room with a reliable heat source. I have no idea how it could replace a portable battery? Carry a hand warmer?

    • Brokeeper

      I believe carbon nanotubes or graphene will be employed, if not now, eventually within the E-Cat X or other version because of its high electrical conductivity and storage capabilities.

  • A gentle means to announce that patience is required as what results of the year long test that might be released are to occur in Stockholm in near the end of June, some months away, sigh. Frank might want to reset his countdown clock.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      I don’t think you understand. The symposium will not be held if the results are not released.

      • Brokeeper

        If the E-Cat X is successful at the customer plant then the symposium may still be held whether results of 1MW plant is released or not.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          I don’t think Mats can afford to wait that long (April? April when? Not to mention it will probably get posponed as always). And besides, “Rossi says” is not the hard evidence he’s looking for.

        • Mats002

          Not recommended.

      • Therein lies a near infinite opportunity to mince words as to just what ‘results’ and ‘released’ means… as Mark Twain once noted, “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

        • Teemu Soilamo

          No, I think it clearly means a public verification by a reputable third party. The conference will not go ahead without.

    • Brokeeper

      The AR Stockholm announcement and conference schedule was Andrea’s response to a question about the ‘E-Cat QuarkX’ by Isaias Coberly. This is not necessarily the IMW plant result announcement which still could be released by the end of this month as Rossi previously thought (perhaps on the 23rd).

      • Frank Acland

        I think AR’s announcement in Sweden will not be about the 1MW plant.

        • artefact

          I hope he will introduce the new e-cat x with some data and show us the possibilities.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Rossi is trying to prevent IH having a monopoly on Rossi’s E-cat and/or LENR.

  • pg

    hi all, sorry but this is bull..it. if he could he would, but he can’t so so he pretends

    • timycelyn

      Well, that’s your opinion. Everyone’s entitled to one.

      Mine is different

      • psi2u2

        No one here is praying. We are reading, debating, thinking, and discussing. You appear to be out of touch with the rush of current events, including, especially the MFMP confirmation of Rossi’s basic data. It took them a couple of years to get there, which makes the announcement all the more telling. The people who have been working in the lab to replicate the Rossi effect say that it is real. Who are you to tell them it’s not? Really now.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          „MFMP confirmation of Rossi’s basic data”?

          I case that you mean the weak gamma reading, MFMP will still have to reproduce the effect and to rule out an external source or a measurement artefact. To be honest, I do not understand how they could make such a fuss without having clarified that first.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The
    1-Meg-1- year test would be pretty much indisputable proof positive that cold fusion works sufficiently to transform our future. Based on Dr. Rossi’s various comments, the test produced significant net energy for a year—irrespective of whatever else occurred (F 9). Of course the world would have to see the certified result, with details, in order to acknowledge this wonderful breakthrough.

    If this long-term test information is unduly delayed or inaccurate, then perhaps Robert Gode’s of Brillouin Energy will be the first to offer indisputable
    proof that his device produces Cold Fusion energy in significant amounts
    and thereby offers mankind an amazing unclouded future with safe, cheap,
    pollution-free energy. As the first to unequivocally show such a result,
    the Nobel Prize and eternal fame as the man who saved the world will be his,
    and his name will ring out for all time as the world’s greatest inventor and savior. Of
    course all those that contributed to the development of cold fusion with
    developments, discussions, parallel research and so forth to help support the
    practical development of the magnificent phenomena will all win honorable
    mentions.

    • LarryJ

      I think the only indisputable proof positive that cold fusion works sufficiently to transform our future is products in the market. This latest test will receive the same hotly disputed reaction as all the others. Rossi the great charlatan has fooled them all again. No test, press release or symposium will change that. With a paradigm shift the only proof is “seeing is believing”. If I can’t buy one it is all just more hoopla as per pg’s comment below.

      But once we have products in the market then business will rush to adopt it and the shift will have begun.

      • DrD

        Very Well put!

        • georgehants

          I have a dream.

      • jimbo92107

        In the end, nothing will convince people like the incredible competitive advantage of dirt cheap, limitless energy.

        What’s a doubter going to say when his neighbor drives a car half a million miles with no gas tank? It can’t work??

        • winebuff67

          I still have a standing order for two ecats. I’m expecting to receive those at a later date. Preferably while I’m alive. 😉

    • Tom59

      It is frustrating to say that proof of LENR working has been provided abundently already but nobody is listening. Even Brillouin’s info for Congress recently did not help. We have to consider the 1yr test the first event that makes it to mainstream news after 1989, apart from showing its relevant outside the lab. I hope the COP is good enough so we don’t have to wait for the E-CatX to spark people’s imagination how to save the planet.

      • winebuff67

        Congress has its head buried where the sun don’t shine for decades and will continue that way for the foreseeable future.

        • Gerard McEk

          The count-down clock has stopped, no report arrived. Frank, didn’t you tell Rossi and IH about this clock? Or were they forgotten?
          Where do we now wait for? Peter Gluck’s proposal of the 23rd of March? As Peter says today, things are so easy for an executive report like: the average COP was 21 or so; it has run for so long; produced so much energy. Just a few figures that would change the world. Why wait? Let’s change the world Andra, Tom and whoever pull the strings there. Publish it!

          • g.k.

            Did the world really change? It has been years but

          • LarryJ

            This report will not change the world. Only products in the market will do that. If this report is positive it will be hotly disputed and ignored by the mainstream like all the others. IMHO

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Mats, where you reiterating Rossi’s estimate on the JoNP when you said ERV report mid-April at the latest, or is this based on private info?

          • Yes.

          • Heath

            Ok. So that was an either or question. Yes on private?

          • Bob Tivnan

            I think he understood the nature of the question and answered yes to both. If Rossi hires a biographer, I hope it’s Matts.

          • Heath

            Just looking for clarification. It’s in short order these days.

          • Yes, that was yes to both, meaning that Rossi told me what he also wrote at JoNP, that the ERV had committed to deliver the report within two months, which would be mid-April since the test was concluded on February 17.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            That’s a important distinction. The ERV document/report being completed and delivered to IH or Rossi is significantly different then a public release of such a document.

            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Brokeeper

            The question is will Rossi/IH hold off at least another 45+ days to ‘announce’ the report together with the E-CatX announcement in June? Making it one big news splash.

          • Brokeeper, I wouldn’t think he has any reason to do so (see my comment above).

          • Brokeeper

            Ah, I get it, business tactical maneuverings.

          • Remember that Rossi is a long distance runner. Check my book for the story when he at 19 set the new Italian record for running 24 hours non-stop—175 kilometers and 144 meters—beating the former Italian record set in 1891 by the legendary Luigi Vittorio Bertarelli. Also check the story on when he was in prison, in a cell at the size of the container of the 1MW test, but with five other prisoners inside. He also did boxing. If anyone is able to fight a hard fight it’s him.

          • Brokeeper

            He sure can. If he can’t beat ’em he can outrun ’em. hehe 😉

          • Brokeeper

            I just ordered your book because my tax return arived. Great sales pitch. 😉

          • bachcole

            Ain’t wealth redistribution wonderful.

            If society knew how wonderful of a worker and human being is my wife, we would have gotten 7 times more of a refund.

            She is so hard working that she went to work twice in a row sick and almost passed out and had to come home early. I try to keep her from going to work sick, but she is such a trooper that it doesn’t do any good. She has plenty of sick-time, but she says that they need her (she is a cook) and so she trudges off to work like a working class hero.

            Everyone who encounters her is cheered up because she is such a sweet, innocent, and up person. I am perfectly happy with our “refund” and I think that she deserves every penny, if not more.

          • sam

            I hope the F9 Positive EVR
            report knock out punch will
            soon be here.

          • The Quark only makes sense to me if used in the following way.

            Imagine the Quark as a tiny little disk shaped fuel package about the size of a Lifesaver candy without the hole in the middle. Imagine many Quarks stuffed into a tube as a fuel package which is then stuffed into a receiving tube in the reactor mechanism. The electronics and control computer mechanisms are attached via cables to the receiving tubes that holds the fuel package tubes which holds the Quarks. So the Quark fuel cells hopefully last for 12 months and then to refuel the reactor all you have to do is quickly withdraw the fuel package tubes from the reactor receiving tubes and replace them with fresh fuel package tubes. The old fuel is dumped into machines that poke a hole in the Quarks, drain the fuel, crush the lumina casing and recycle everything. The rationale for all this is that the smaller fuel packages are more stable and everything can be accomplished by high speed automated machines with little down time to the reactor. In a home reactor, the homeowner could turn off the reactor with the flick of a switch, withdraw the fuel tubes, and exchange them for a new fresh fuel package tubes that they can insert into the reactor receiving tubes. This scenario may be totally wrong and off base, but it is the only way I could imagine the Quark adding to efficiency. Normally if you go to the store to buy something, the bigger the package the lower the cost. The Quark goes against that logic, so this fantasy is all I could come up with to explain Rossi’s interest in the Quark.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Sounds reasonable.

          • Moore’s law coming to energy. People fighting deflation with negative interest are trapped in the world of narrow sighted economics.

          • Omega Z

            Mats, Do you know how negative interest works.

            When I was young I thought, cool. They will pay me to borrow money which could in time pay off my loan. Kidding and to good to be true anyway.

            To start, Interest rates for loans increases as money demand out strips supply. We all know that.

            Negative interest comes into play when banks are setting on large sums of money not being loaned out. Negative interest is when the Fed/Government charges banks interest on that money not being utilized in an attempt to move that money into the economy. In other words, loan money to people even if they can’t pay it back. The likes of which bubbles are made of.

          • Right. In any case, my point was that deflation is here to stay. For reasons based in physics. Economists don’t see this, and since they’re afraid of deflation, believing that people will stop consuming, waiting for an even lower price (as if people stopped buying electronics… did they???), they invent all sorts of things to keep inflation alive. But Universe doesn’t care.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            It should always be possible, and easy, for a government to beat deflation: just increase taxes. It fixes deflation and deficit at the same time. If a government doesn’t do that, it’s a political choice.

            But even without that, I don’t think deflation is here to stay, anyway. With LENR, the whole world has to be rebuilt, sort of: where and how people live, how they move, etc. Already the fact that cheap heating energy enables bigger houses which can reside farther away because of cheap transportation can cause a large boom in construction industry. From the point of view of 2036, the state of the world in 2016 may look like after a war: similar to how we look into year 1946. From the point of view of LENR world, almost all of our so-called infrastructure is outdated, because everything is tuned into saving energy. Not only how people live, but also for example trade routes and trade patterns overall. For a small example, aluminium is nowadays made in places like Norway and Iceland where there exists cheap electricity for some natural reason, but it could be made anywhere.

            And then there is expansion into the solar system: the idea of building large rotating habitats using asteroid and other small body materials. Forget Mars and other planets, because they are small. The solar system has enough small body material to make trillions of square kilometres of 1g, 1 bar, radiation protected habitat area, equivalent to thousands or even one million times the surface area of the Earth. That is a Moore’s law domain. It’s starting to be technically possible, and it wouldn’t even necessarily require LENR.

            Rebuilding the world, let alone the solar system, needs capital. Perhaps accidentally, central banks have been printing it for some years now, and thus far only part of it has entered into circulation. When the boom starts, the dormant money will start to enter into the real economy and the central banks’ early start may look wise in retrospect.

          • LarryJ

            Cheap energy will cause everyone’s input costs to fall dramatically. Energy affects the cost of everything at every level from mining the raw materials to delivering the finished product. It is quite possible that deflation of a very good kind will be with us for some time to come. The stimulated economy will create a large demand for capital to build projects that in the past were not even feasible and that demand for money could cause interest rates to rise thus encouraging saving. A truly virtuous spiral. The consumer will be able to buy more and save more all at the same time.

          • Omega Z

            Those costs are only about 10% of goods on average. LENR will have it’s own costs even if substantially less overall so savings will be less then 10%.

            Note to really stimulate the economy will require major adjustments to the financial policies we follow today.

          • for people like gael giraud energy have much more impact than 10%
            he compute 60%, but other economist for china computed that 100% of growth is because of available energy.

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1961-a-French-economist-explain-GdP-growth-is-mostly-energy/

            assuming stable economy, and 10x cheaper energy, you gain 9% of price, but it seems that in fact production , growth is simply proportional to available energy, and for the same cost you get 10x more possible production.

            of course it will be new product=growth of +900% (over 20-40 years), not deflation of 9% in 10-20years.

          • Omega Z

            I was merely referring to average cost input of products.

            Obviously, it has a huge economic impact. Without Oil, we would still be getting around on hay burners and getting saddle sores or splinters in our behind. 🙂

          • artefact

            On JONP:

            “gregha March 29, 2016 at 2:18 PM
            If not a full release of the ERV report, how about a synopsis?

            Andrea Rossi March 29, 2016 at 4:12 PM
            Gregha:
            Yes, I will publish it within a tenth of days, anyway.
            Warm Regards, A.R.”

          • Teemu Soilamo

            So, in 2.4 hours? Can’t wait! 😉

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            That’s a good one. A perfect example of how Rossi speak can lead one to false conclusions 🙂

          • Brokeeper

            Depending on how many days. 🙂

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Innovations follow an S-curve: growth followed by saturation. Usually a tech is developed relatively quickly, and then it faces physics limits and saturates. This has happened for example to car motors, jet airplanes, launch vehicles and nuclear warheads.

            The E-cat faces limits such as Stefan-Boltzmann law and melting point of material. Because of these limits, plausibly (assuming F8,F9) the Quark is already almost as good as a LENR energy source can become, at least performancewise.

            Miniaturisation of electronics was an idea that someone got 50-60 years ago (“hey guys, there is a lot of room at the bottom”). This case is special because its full implementation, consisting of some 30 generations of chips, took so long. Only now it’s facing the limits of physics, the atomic scale. The electronics S-curve is long and its growing part was approximately exponential (“Moore’s law”), but it’s still an S-curve.

          • Pekka, you’re right about the S-curve. In the case of Moore’s law, Moore himself thought that it would be valid for a decade or two. It recently turned 50, and although silicon is coming to a physical limit, there are tons of new ideas on how to proceed on miniaturisation, keeping Moore’s law alive (through new s-curves), from three dimensional chips and use of materials such as graphene, to the evolution of quantum computing.

            LENR, as we know it, might be fairly optimised, but we now little about where further R&D will bring us. And that is still only the beginning.

            Exothermal nuclear reactions, as we know them, only transform the mass which corresponds to the binding energy for one or possibly a few nucleons in the nucleus, into ‘energy’. The total mass of the nucleon is in the order of 10,000 larger, meaning that if we could transform ALL the mass in matter, in controlled forms (think matter + anti-matter, but controlled…), you would have a possible future increase in efficiency in the order of 10,000 times.

            So, there you are. There’s still room for improvement.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            As long as the human species is as immature as it currently is (watching the news for ten minutes at a random day would suffice to confirm that), it might be better if this kind of technology were not available too soon.

          • The trouble is that human nature doesn’t seem to have changed significantly since history has been recorded, and we don’t have the luxury of waiting a few millennia for a ‘Star Trek’ society before we stop burning things for energy.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Right. But I would prefer the E-Cat to a 10000 times more effective device. 1 kg of matter equals 21.48 megatons of TNT. Imagine that in the hands of the wrong persons.

          • clovis ray

            Andreas, hi.
            What you say is true, and we as a society has a long way to go, in order to become, good but good will winn, just given time, because i believe i can change, there fore it will take just a small amount of time , be patient, be observant, and be informed, humans are good at heart, and time marches on.

          • Omega Z

            Remember, the 3.5KW Hot-cat took 4+ hours to come to power. Imagine having 30KW or more in operation even when not needed. Even cheap energy isn’t cheap if you waste 90% or more of it.

            The Quark being very small likely powered up in a couple minutes makes sense in that your energy output is scaleable to actual use demand. 100 watts or 20KW available in minutes.

          • Good point.

          • Certainly Albert. And of course, this is my concern. However, I believe that Torkel Nyberg (Sifferkoll) is correct in his analysis that Rossi has everything to gain of publishing the result as soon as possible, above all in gaining credibility and in that way also a stronger commercial position, whereas IH has less to gain for several reasons—risk of being a target for attacks and risk of Rossi building a stronger independent position from commercial activities in Europe. Tug of war (since they need to agree on what to make public). We’ll just have to see who’s stronger.

          • Frank Acland

            Rossi has the E-Cat X hand he can play, if other parties don’t want the 1MW plant report published. I think he is at liberty to share information about it without the consent of IH.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            A very astute point on your part. The
            report really helps Rossi the most, and IH really does not need (nor want) publicity until they get their ducks in a row. And by ducks in a row, I mean things like ensuring shares etc. are purchased at a low price etc.

            Perhaps the ERV report will “flesh” out pending articles from Popular Science and Nature that you noted are in “progress”.

            My base point however remains that Rossi has no control over when the ERV report will be released to the public.

            Hopefully Rossi’s NDA will not prevent him
            answering this magic question from you: What is the “average” COP of the 1WM plant on a typical day? (you do have this question ready for Rossi, right???). 😉

            As Frank notes below, Rossi may well be able to talk about the Ecat-x. However, Rossi may will NOT want to ruffle feathers and break the “spirt” of the NDA So there is the letter of the law, and that of the sprit.
            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Exactly Albert.

          • NCkhawk

            Mats – Is there a chance that Rossi is operating outside of agreements with IH? Have you taken into account Rossi’s history of using half-truth to suite his purposes? These things must be considered here.

            For whatever reason, you are personally raising the stakes to a very high level right now. You may already be crossing the point of no return. LENR doesn’t need another high profile failure right now. You will have responsibility for raising a lot of potentially harmful hype and interest. You risk taking a lot of people down with you if you are getting tricked by Rossi. Sober up man and stop believing EVERYTHING that Rossi is feeding you! This is getting beyond ridiculous.

          • Brent Buckner

            OTOH, as I have it the New Energy World Symposium is still contingent upon release of a positive ERV. I don’t think Mats Lewan is “all-in” simply on Rossi’s say-so.

          • Oh, I missed this comment Nckhawk/Weaver. I’m sorry, I cannot take your advise before having more proof on your claims, getting a chance to assess them. If you have access to the MW report I think you should send it to me. That would be a way to start.

          • Alan Smith

            Personally I am sorry to see that NChawk dragged his sorry R’s in here at all.

          • Omega Z

            He who has the purse strings usually have the power.

          • clovis ray

            and the opposite is true as well , power holder’s, hold the purse. power is money, he who holder the power need not fear the rich, after all they have what is wanted, and it goes to the highest bidder, that is the free market in action. these days we need efficiency, a system that works for all,

          • Omega Z

            A Tug of War is common in Venture Capital Consortiums. Various members wanting to take different routes to market. Airbus went through it’s own growing pains. If I recall, some entities sold out their claims to a few.

            On the upside, Tug of War’s tend to only take place when there is something worth while to squabble about.

          • Frank Acland

            Maybe he means both.

          • psi2u2

            Krivit has established a long history of being wrong about Rossi. I see no reason to think that has changed.

          • deleo77

            Now someone needs to figure out how to ask Rossi the right question so we can get to the next level with this.

            1. Do you need to use F9 anymore?
            2. Will the Sweden LENR symposium now be able to move forward?

          • Michael W Wolf

            Rossi posted no more F9.

    • winebuff67

      The guy showed his tech to congress with SRI DOING the follow-up confirmation of the whole production need they do more??

      • georgehants

        The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth.
        1984 by George Orwell

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Senior controller: “They’re late this morning, sir.”

    Air Vice-Marshal: “The bastards are up to something.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXvEXxxx9KM

  • LCD

    Fi don’t understand why f9 is still invoked. I thought we were past that

    • LarryJ

      F9 = If the test results are positive but could also be negative

      That will remain in effect until the ERV’s report comes out.

    • Alan Smith

      I think that there is an important aspect of the ERV that people seem to be overlooking. The value of cheap heat from LENR and the cost savings versus (say) gas heat are very simple to establish. 30 minutes with a pocket calculator and a pile of historic gas bills would suffice to make a case.

      But that alone is not enough.

      A proper evaluation report must take into account the whole-life cost of the system. This involves establishing the build and installation cost (relatively easy) but also the life-span of the plant and its disposal cost. Plant life span is more speculative of course, but requires a total strip-down and examination of the inside of at least 50% of the reactors as well as the last 12 months of fault logs.

      This now leads us to the hardest part. Examination of the ash by-products. If the inside of the reactors are heavily contaminated with something very nasty like Beryllium (possible) or -god forbid – a heavy radioactive element (unlikely but not totally impossible) then the end-of life disposal and fuel core replacement costs might be much higher than a simple check of the plant utility meters would suggest.

      So- not a simple report, but if done properly quite a complex one.
      .

      • wpj

        Well put.

        Also need to consider the fuel preparation costs as it appears that there is quite a bit of pre-treatment. May be insignificant in comparison to everything else, but possibly not.

        • Gerard McEk

          I do think it may be possible that the ash can partly be reused again. Maybe it is even essential for a proper start-up operation without radiation. That would automatically lead to a closed fuel cycle, that maybe demanded by the authorities when mass-scale introduction of LENR is licensed.

          • Alan Smith

            Good point Gerard. One suspects ‘the Authorities’ will not show the laissez faire approach to this tech that they did towards Nuclear power generation.

          • Alain Samoun

            Alan:
            It is important of course to know the Return On Investment,ROI, of the 1MW LENR reactor but it has also to be compared to other energy technologies. I made such comparison with Uranium fission,just for the fuel:
            Typically a 1,000 MWe nuclear reactor uses 100 tons of enriched Uranium(235) for about 5 years This means 100/5 = 20tons/year or 20,000Kg for 1000MWe or
            20 Kg of enriched Uranium for 1MW electric or about 6 Kg of U for 1MW therm. to compare to a few mg of fuel for the 1MW therm E-Cat: No need to go further in my opinion – Same comparison for a gas/oil/coal reactors.

          • Alan Smith

            I could not agree more Alain.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Further to your good argument Alain – I do not expect to see Fissile material our of New Fire reactions – and definitely NOT the super nasty 1/4 million year Plutonium!

          • Alan Smith

            Nor I Bob. Plutonium was never on my Christmas list! But someone about to invest a few (or many) millions of dollars would probably want to know everything about what exactly they are investing in. And if they use technical experts to advise them then the general skepticism about LENR would ensure some very hard questions were asked about the whole process.

          • wpj

            MFMP has suggested that Ni62 is important for the process to function and this appears to have been generated in the Lugano test so it may be possible to reuse this (if this is, in fact, the case).

            Unfortunately, is appears that the Lithium is the business side of things and so will be depleted of the required isotope. This will not stop it going into other potential uses, but not back as reactor fuel.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Apparently you’re absolutely right . Some Russian replications used spent fuel additive . Apparently this is due to the hypothesis of the nuclear active environment Mr. Storm .

      • DrD

        Don’t forget the maintanance (& supervision) costs. I’m sure the prototype can’t be regarded as anything like typical (A.R acknowledged many improvements were highligthed) but if they did dial this in, it’s also going to be significant (for that prototype).

        • Alan Smith

          You are quite correct. I thought my mention of build and installation costs (which includes fuel) and fault logs (which detail repairs etc) covered these points, but obviously this wasn’t clear. Apologies.

      • Warthog

        Not quite….there is no way that the reactor will be contaminated with beryllium unless it was in the fuel in the first place (referring to stable isotopes). The question of radiation safety is answered in about 30 seconds with a Geiger or scintillation counter. The only reason for an extensive fuel analysis as you suggest is to understand the nuclear reactions involved.

        • Alan Smith

          Not quite indeed, because you cannot estimate the cost of core replacement/recycling without understanding precisely what a spent core might contain. And since no reactor has (AFAIK) ever run so long or been driven to the point of fuel exhaustion as AR suggested this one has, how can anyone possibly be absolutely certain what will be inside? It really isn’t going to be as simple as you suggest. Consider this, if your suggested 30 second flourish of a radiation detector does show residual radiation, where do you go next?

          • Warthog

            Sure you can. Just assume that the core will be totally expended and nothing in it will be recycled. For engineering purposes, one doesn’t need to “know with absolute certainty what will be inside”. Only scientific purposes require that. One needs only know “is it radioactive” and “how much”. lf “not radioactive”, send it to the local landfill. If “radioactive” it goes into the already-defined radwaste disposal system. That sets the upper bound of the cost ESTIMATE sufficiently for the current purposes of the validation report and customer, which, I think is what most folks here are interested in.

            This leaves plenty of time to answer the scientific questions that require a full analysis of the contents. Although with analytical tools like ICP-MS even determining that won’t take all that long.

      • BillH

        Two points, the lifecycle cost of the plant can only be assessed by running it for however long it will run, much more important for the customer is the point at which they have recovered their investment, current estimates put this between 1 and 2 years.

        Radioactivity issues are very unlikely be a problem. Radioactivity monitoring outside and inside the reactor must have been a health and safety issue and would be monitored continuously throughout the whole test. Unless a problem occurred in the last week of the test say this would have been a stopper much earlier in the test. The ash test may only help in establish what nuclear interaction took place.

        If the customer is happy the only real issue is can the plant be manufactured profitably?

        • Alan Smith

          Accountancy, accountancy, chemistry, engineering studies,accountancy. I have never seen an accountant get a shift on yet. Unless it is covering the distance between the 18th hole and the Clubhouse.

      • sam

        Interesting comment Alan.

    • Rene

      I wish we were past that. It will be settled, one way or the other, when the ERV’s report is made public. Until then:

      http://www.awesomebackgrounds.com/templates/countdown-clock.GIF

  • pg

    0!?

    • artefact

      Still -14h 🙂

      • DrD

        Except he’s since been saying not till the end of the month and even that’s not a promise. I can see the crtics using this.

        • artefact

          The counter is just an estimate and the critics you refer to say much when the day is long.

  • DrD

    Indeed, and each of those 20 might be made up of 100w quarks. Or AN other combination. I suppose a lot depends on how simple he can make each quark in terms of control and servicing.
    As a comparison, Imagine all the pixels in a display screen we control those very well; I doubt the E-CatX control will be as complex.
    Maybe each quark or sub assembly of quarks would be “unplugged” a bit like a car battery or bulb and returned for refurbishing.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Someone please find the bean counter of the customer and apply water boarding. (:

  • Robyn Wyrick

    That is hilarious. Really, after all the specific disclosures by IH, the third party confirmations, the third party replications, the general growth of the technology worldwide – after all that, you think June is some clever “tactic”?

    Here’s what I think: Rossi is not a brilliant scientist and engineer who has created a successful and patented LENR technology which has been bought and tested by Industrial Heat, which has not been confirmed by extensive third party tests by highly reputable scientists, and which has not been replicated by Parkhamov and others – Rossi is a brilliant scientist and engineer who has created super-duper fake out machine that happens to align with a bunch of other coincidences.

    It was amazing luck for him that Industrial Heat happened to think they bought his technology at the same time that he claimed that they did. The man is a scam artist genius.

    • bachcole

      I live a deprived life. My wife gets all of the LOLs around here, and I get very few. Life is just not fair. So, when I read “It was amazing luck for him that Industrial Heat happened to think they
      bought his technology at the same time that he claimed that they did.” and get a really nice LOL, I really appreciate it. You bring a little joy to the downtrodden. (:->)

      • Freethinker

        Ohhh, cheer up Roger. Things are about to go ballistic in a galactic way.

    • psi2u2

      Indeed Robyn, well put.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Or maybe the comment’s words were random and they formed sentences by coincidence.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    What announcement are you referring to? The ERV report? When did Rossi specifically mention that he would disclosing the report’s results in June? Reading comprehension…

  • LION

    I think the ECW community will find this interesting, I am looking forward to seeing this film,
    http://www.custodianoffire.com/CustodianofFIRE.com/COLD_FUSION.html

  • e-dog

    Merry St Pats day to all.
    Just wondering if Frank and you guys would be interested in organising/arranging/attending a Q&A ask me anything style Reddit session here on ECW??
    I think ECW has the numbers, civility and cred to host a really entertaining and informative live session.

    Not sure how much work would be involved, a lot I am sure.
    Who would you like to see on possible contenders list????????

    Just a thought!
    Id like to see Bob G from MFMP, I think he would kick it off smashingly. and he pretty much doest it anyways!
    Matts L would be cool!

    … Rossi….

  • US_Citizen71

    Yes my scam meter pegs when it gets near your name.

  • Brokeeper

    I’m sorry, but of all the celebrities, politicians, professionals, scientists, inventors and leaders I’m aware of there are very few I would trust more than what “Rossi says”.

  • jimbo92107

    The countdown clock appears to have reached zero.

    Bueller? Bueller?

    • DrD

      Yes, it should now be reading +1.

  • georgehants

    “The layman always means, when he says “reality” that he is speaking
    of something self-evidently known; whereas to me it seems the most
    important and exceedingly difficult task of our time is to work on the
    construction of a new idea of reality.”
    ~Wolfgang Pauli

  • Zack Iszard

    @Paul, about superconductivity.org, in particular the “superconductor news” section, clearly makes some strong claims about RTSC, with the most recent transition observed in the neighborhood of +160 C. However, it is important to note that these measurements are very subtle indicators of a transition in a material that is highly impure for the superconducting structure. The layered linear crystal structure the author(s) (and presumably the experimenter(s), as well) describes are incredibly difficult to prepare in any meaningful quantity. That is why the data the author presents appear to be very noisy – to see any evidence of electronic transition, the data is stretched to its limit.

    Because of the admitted high level of difficulty of preparing the alleged RTSC crystals, the data are not very convincing. While the author(s)’ efforts seem legitimate and focused, a tiny gap in a resistance trace during a heating cycle is very far from a wire with kilo-amp bandwidth, and as such is likely not too interesting to other material scientists. The “layer cake method” synthesis approach also doesn’t seem dramatically scalable or amenable to other currently-employed large-scale material manufacturing techniques, further reducing the attractiveness of the research.

    My impression from studying for two semesters under a material scientist actively researching superconducting/super-resisting 2D materials is that there isn’t a paranoia in material science about RTSC being possible or not (he alluded to RTSC already having been discovered, “but its not widely known”), unlike the paranoiac avoidance of LENR by the high energy physics establishment. The author of superconductivity.org seems to think that there is such an avoidance by the scientific community. Likely, the author is confusing a difficulty of reaching an audience with a “data double standard”.

    Focus on planar carbon structures is more or less dominating electronics material research at the moment, and RTSC systems in graphene have been assumed real for decades. Graphene’s attractiveness stems largely from the fact that it doesn’t require (much) rare earth metals to have interesting properties, which is a profound selling point (literally) in the push for cheaper, lighter, faster electronics. Not only that, but I could certainly do with a clearer conscience about my use of electronic goods if I knew that slaves in African jungles weren’t mining rare earth metals to support the industry.

    TL;DR: no considerable question to doubt the truth value of facts presented on superconductivity.org, but plenty of reason to doubt the gravity and applicability of the approaches used to achieve RTSC. Unfortunately, this research may be reduced to a historical footnote; in a word, graphene.

    • oldrolledgold

      Rossi said that his technology had to be integrated with current energy tech or be killed (from memory).When the report comes out showing the COP and a rough rate of adoption can be ascertained.Will this allow a rational price for oil to be found?During market panics things tend to overshoot but if integration is expected,will governments impose a price level?

      • LilyLover

        Oil is dead. The report will precipitate the secondary decline and even the “derivative sickers” will jump the titanic. Right now it is the speculative upper end. When certainty shows up – oil will close on to zero. Rational oil price is negative i.e. $-180/bbl for gathering and mitigating scattered pollution and marginal lung attacks.

        BTW Thank you Dr. Rossi!!

        • AdrianAshfield

          Not so. Do you really think all the cars and trucks will be scrapped overnight?

          • invient

            The replacement rate is 8 years for the average first world fleet of autos.

            That is under normal conditions. A new technology, disruptive and with so many benefits, I think the government could incentivize and speed this up to 2-4 years. Fossil fuels must be left in the ground and this is the best technology to do that.

          • Angry SQUIRREL!!

            nope. 1st someone has to create a proof of concept. Then it has to go through vigorous testing, then it will only be available in limited quantities and will be very expensive. I say within the next 20 years it will be available to the masses.

          • Hi all

            In reply to Angry SQUIRREL

            The concept is already proven, it is called an electric car every major car company is already prepped for this. We already discussed this on this site. They do not need to do anything more than link up a pile of quark drives to provide the electrics.

            Kind regards walker

          • Omega Z

            Cars are structurally designed and built with specific drive trains in mind. Most of which have been around for decades, but can still take several years to bring a new vehicle to market. According to a car manufacturer(Discussed with Rossi), it will take 10 plus years for a new technology. Angry SQUIRREL is within reality.

          • Hi all

            In reply to Omega Z on the matter of “drive trains ”

            The drive train of an electric car is an electric motor. The fuel is electricity.

            That electricity can and does come from multiple sources:

            Batteries.
            The petrol or diesel motor of a hybrid.
            Hydrogen fuel cell
            Heck even solar

            Where the electricity comes from makes not a jot of difference to an electric drive train.

            For the car manufacturers the electricity source is as trivial as changing a battery.

            People can, will and have done it themselves
            A small electric generator using fossil fuel in the back of a RAV 4, or in the engine compartment of a hybrid by throwing away the superfluous and inefficient conventional combustion engine and gears and drive train, direct electric drive to each wheel supplied by electrics is faster and way more efficient.

            The more important thing is how long it takes for people to decide to replace their car, this was discussed elsewhere. Most fleets get changed over in about 8 years. With a government support like the scrappage scheme it could be done in four years.

            Will entrenched players attempt to slow down adoption with lobbied regulation and taxes of course. That is the purpose of elected bodies their laws and taxes, what you thought it was all about the public good?

            Then why do they spend so much money on lobbying and complex bribery structures in representative, democracy; such as thousands of dollar ticket speaking luncheons, boxes of never to be read, signed special edition books ghost written for politicians on the company tax deductible training budget? Yep, you the tax payer pays the bribe.

            And then there are all the non executive directorships in subcontractors of the companies that benefited from the laws a politician voted on, sometimes they are traded between the politicians. The sponsored jobs on NGOs and public bodies with massive salaries attached. What you thought all those positions on charity boards were paid for by donations in tins? No it is all about laundering the bribe.

            Kind Regards walker

          • LarryJ

            Stocks and commodities are generally priced based on what the market thinks they will be worth in the future and not on what they are actually worth today. Markets tend to be forward looking. That is why a company that shows current strong earnings with a poor outlook will take a big price hit.

            Right now there is a glut of oil and the still relatively high price is based on what the market thinks it will be worth in the future. If the market view of the future price of oil changes then the price could be marked down very quickly.

          • Omega Z

            The price of stocks will reflect future value and profitability. The price of oil will reflect supply/demand in current time. The stock price will decline overtime(Wont happen quickly) as it shrinks down, but oil could still see $100 a barrel if supply doesn’t meet demand.
            IF/When LENR becomes viable in vehicles, it will take about 10 years for those vehicles to come to market. Another 20 years to replace the 1.5 billion vehicles that will likely be on the road at that time.

          • EEStorFanFibb

            I agree that even if the transition from oil use was heavily underway, the oil price could go way up OR down depending on the balance between production and demand.

            where I disagree with you is about oil stock prices. those could go down in a hurry and stay down once the writing is clearly on the wall even if profits were still decent. this is because much of the asset values on the oil company balance sheets (oil reserves) are soon to seen as worthless stranded assets. LENR might help accelerate the writing of that text in the mind of investors. EVs certainly will once 200+ mile $35k models proliferate.

            Need a real world example? look at how fast coal stocks lost 90+% of there value in a just a few years or so.

          • psi2u2

            Gunnar,

            The moderate tone of your skepticism proves that you are not a pathoskeptic. It is perfectly reasonable to say that you still have ground for doubt. Indeed, we should all continue to have some ground for doubt, at least until we see the abstract (at least) of the new report — and depending on your perspective, maybe as you say a lot more. For myself I’m ready to say that when the report or significant parts of it become available, if it says what we think it is going to say, then I am satisfied that Bkrharold’s enthusiasm is fully justified without any need for further doubt.

            This is not just because of the new test and report, but because yet another confirmation at this level will be enough for me.

            Skepticism is healthy. What is not healthy is skepticism above all else, including being unable to take in new data and revise one’s degree of skepticism accordingly (Lugano, IH statement, MFMP validation, etc…..)

          • clovis ray

            I agree, we will need you gunnar, the war will soon start, when the world kicks in and the storm is brewing, a lot of folks are going to be unhappy.
            And we may all have to pull together , in order to get through the rough weather ahead, and we do have right on our side.

  • ScienceFan

    The waiting is a special kind of agony. After waiting this long for the test to be over, waiting for the results is pure torture.

  • Veblin

    These update numbers do not match.

    I seem to remember an original thread that was quickly updated with what Peter Gluck wrote, but it was only updated in the title. We are at title update 3 and thread update 2.5.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks Veblin — you are right. This is actually the second update since the original post.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Here is an overview of what a “what people want to hear” report might be composed of.

      On COP: 6+ / higher / Potential for closed loop
      On ASH: Valuable / Safe / Unsafe but better than traditional nuclear / Unsafe
      PARTS & LABOUR per kW/h compared to other generation means: Better / comparable / worse
      CO2 compared to other generation means: Lower / same / higher
      DECOMMISSIONING costs: Favourable / unfavourable

      So a sample report might read

      COP: Potential for closed loop
      ASH: Safe for handling
      PARTS & LABOUR: Better per kW/h than competing technology
      CO2: Lower
      DECOMMISSIONING: Favourable

      • Omega Z

        ->PARTS & LABOUR: Better per kW/h than competing technology

        It’s not necessary to be PARTS & LABOUR: Better per kW/h as long as it’s competitive. With Fossil energy, you have additional costs for a centralized grid structure along with rail transport and pipelines. And because of their large scale you need large water supplies. Even wind and solar require a large grid structure due to the intermittency.

        LENR in worst case is still well suited for a localized micro grid avoiding all those additional costs. And the only fuel transport for LENR is an annual UPS delivery truck.

        • Mats002

          UPS delivery quadrocopter 😉

          Deliver to any place.

      • Mike Henderson

        I don’t expect to see a positive report before February, 2017. Seriously.

        What are the political, economic, and societal impacts of that report? Let’s do a thought experiment on Bob’s sample report, and let’s also suppose that the author’s credibility and methods are substantial.

        The report is truly disruptive. Modern physics is wrong. Science is fallible. Coal is worthless. Nuclear power is done. Most refineries are soon to be shuttered. OPEC’s power is gone. Financial holdings in energy, utilities, and modes of distribution are dandelions – poof. Be prepared for “The Big Short” on steroids. Millions of jobs will be eliminated. Energy tax and tariff revenues will evaporate. Desalination will be cheap. Carbon recapture and sequestering will be feasible. Electric everything.

        The threat to the sacred cows of the status quo would be huge. You think we have problems with energy interests now? Just wait, you ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

        It is an election year and the U.S. political system is in the throes of revealing the flaws of this form of democracy. Throwing Bob’s sample report onto this bonfire would be explosive.

        Nope. Not gonna happen. If the test was 100% favorable and credible, there won’t be a reveal.

        • Bob Greenyer

          You make a strong argument Mike. Moreover, the Bankster class will want to move their liabilities onto the taxpayer if they can… a bit like the new fission reactor in UK having the price of electricity with profit all guaranteed by the UK taxpayer for many decades.

          • Skip

            Same with the totally unnecessary Site C dam in BC Canada. Major environmental damage is in process for a Huge financial outlay promoted and supported by a manipulated Provincial Premier, for short term construction employment. I guess its important to appear to do something, even when pointless and resulting in the continued and increased servitude of the taxpayers. I could quote the cost estimates, but they are an obvious lie…

        • roseland67

          Mike,

          The “report” will not be disruptive, only replication of energy out > energy in will be disruptive.
          The replication of element transmutation in the fuel will be disruptive.
          The report in and of itself, is worth less than 2 dead flies without the above replication.

          Bob is on the right track, he understands this completely.

      • sam

        Hello Bob
        This truck driver will settle for
        EVR report A Big F9 POSITIVE.
        Or if so F9 negative.
        I like A.R. Simple style.
        But for all you Scientific type I will
        hope for a full report.
        Sam

        • Bob Greenyer

          The simpler the better

  • Mats002

    Mats Lewan sent this message to the pre-registered for his NEWS seminarium a few hours ago:

    “- About 220 individuals have pre-registered, among them several who asked if it could be extended into a two-day event. Therefore, plans are now being made for a two-day event on June 21-22, with additional speakers and more opportunities to network with other attendeees. However, there will still be an option to attend the first day only.”

    He still expect the ERV report at the latest by mid april.

  • passerby

    Am I the only one glad they are taking their time? Think about it, this report should not be hastily prepared. It is too important for that.

    If the rumored COP is verified by the ERV that would make it one of the most disruptive technologies in the history of the human race. It would be endlessly discussed and picked apart for years to come, quoted by news, discussed by professionals and written about in books.

    So I say let them double check or even triple check their work. Let them put a whole team on scrutinizing the thousands of hours of footage, making charts and graphs, testing the fuel, and analyzing the vast amount of instrument data. Whatever they need to do to be as sure as possible about the results, let them do it. We want this report to be as thorough as possible, don’t we?

    • Mats002

      We want, but consider that they had a whole year to compile, prepare and double/triple check their measurements. Ash analysis must be waited for though.

    • Gerard McEk

      I am sure the COP was known in high detail immediately after the test. Other important data like stability, inventarisation of all kinds of abnormal behaviour and interruptions, may require more time. Detailed analysis of the fuel ash may take a lot of time.
      The most important for many of us is the COP and the official conformation of that, because that gives the clearest indication that something extraordinary has taken place. A high COP >10 makes it very prommissing for common usage as a new energy source.
      The change of isotopes and elements in the ash gives clear indication that a nuclear process has taken place. That is also required to support a >1 COP. That should convince the scientists.
      Things that make massive introduction of LENR less interesting and that can delay it:
      – Radioactive elements in the ash
      – Unstable and not understood control behaviour
      – Radiation (alpha, beta, gamma)

      I agree that all of this must be carefully analysed and gathered indeed.
      In advance of the detailed report, a signed preliminary report giving some indication of at least the used and delivered energy, the COP, the measured radiation and of its usability (if low, indicate why) would be very much welcomed, especially if the detailed report will not be accessible or will take a while before it is issued.

    • Brent Buckner

      Investment by IH (and WPCT in IH) tells us that there’s been professional due diligence, and statements by Fulvio Fabiani directly contradict the scenario you hope is wrong.

    • pg

      the ERV had committed to deliver the report within two months, which would be mid-April since the test was concluded on February 17.

      COUNT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Also, Rossi said that he “sees what he can do with the agreement of all the involved parties” in terms of putting something out by March 23, the day after tomorrow.

        If nothing is published it implies ERV or IH wasn’t ready at this point.

  • Bob Greenyer

    It took about 2 months for the MFMP to get their ash analysed and this was mainly due to labs in the US having extremely high workload. The actual tests do not take that long – however, you have to wait for the testers to be available.

    When they do get their results back, hopefully from multiple parties like in Lugano report – they will need to cross correlate them and draw inference from the data.

    Since the suggestion is that this is energy of a non-chemical nature, this work is of paramount importance to any report and must be allowed to take its course. From a technical, COP and running costs point of view – the report is of course more straightforward.

    In the UK when anything challenging happens – there are calls for a “Public inquiry” the actual inquiry part can be achieved in a few months to a year – but sometimes the HIGHLY PAID report writers like to spend years even a decade plus choosing the right words and grammatical structure for every sentence – I am not suggesting that it will be that drawn out in this case, but given the “mumbojumbo tango” nonsense of the recent IH “press release”/positioning document, there could be a bit of that kind of REALLY EXPENSIVE say-nothing copy-writing being crafted.

    • Gerard McEk

      Maybe an undeniable replication can speed things up. How is SKINR doing? And others, expecting results soon?

      • Bob Greenyer

        SKINNR effectively did a ‘dry run’ the past two weeks, their TC failed – besides – they did not oxidise, had a different nickel and had NO radiation monitoring.

        Next week, they will have our AH50 Hunter Nickel as used in GS 5.2 and they can start a more faithful attempt – but I think they are wanting to see signs of excess heat before pulling instruments of other experiments.

        On the plus side, this gives other replicators a window to do a replication fast and I know that me356 is well advanced – but waiting for some equipment, principally a scintillator to arrive.

  • Mats002

    I’d say it is possible until we have some solid verification which we still seek for.

  • jimbo92107

    “March 10, 2016 – By Steven B. Krivit –

    Industrial Heat has apparently terminated its relationship with businessman Andrea Rossi.”

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/03/10/industrial-heats-e-cat-exit/

    Can anybody here refute this story?

    • artefact

      I think he just interprets the IH press release his way.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I think if IH said that they were about to play a role in an energy revolution based on AR technology – SK would still say that they were having a divorce.

    • Omega Z
    • Frank Acland

      Andrea Rossi has, multiple times in the last few days. He says IH is the exclusive licensee for E-Cat products in the USA, and other territories.

      • jimbo92107

        I’m looking at a single point of communication failure. If all our information on E-Cat tech is funneled through one man, then what do we really know?

        “Rossi says” is wearing thin.

        • Frank Acland

          Well this has been the case for years now. However it turns out that many of Rossi’s statements on the JONP turn out later to be verified.

          • jimbo92107—I would suggest that you read my book An Impossible Invention, and then make your assessment after that.

        • Roland

          Put a few hundred k into a massive espionage effort…

        • clovis ray

          How droll , even when it comes right from the master inventor himself.
          OH’ i believe Krivit, he is so trust worthy, honest, and has such a brilliant scientifical mind on him, yea right,
          Anyone that believes this, i’v got some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sale you. lol. ha. ha, ha,.

          • jimbo92107

            Must I pull out the Sagan? Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. What we have from Rossi so far is grievously lacking in specifics or corroboration. The other saying is of course, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t true.

            Meanwhile some guy named Krivit, whom I do not know, writes an article that clearly paints Rossi as a cheap techno con artist, and gives specific examples. Do you remember Rossi’s tire recycling idea? A complete flop. Did investors lose money? I believe so.

            At any rate, April supposedly will provide the real tell. If Rossi again announces a delay or appears with nothing concrete in hand (like a Quark X pumping out 20KW) to show the world, then we will understand the game a lot better.

            I really do hope Rossi’s claims are real, but the way he is approaching this matter does not make me confident at all. It makes me suspicious. It feels like he is stringing us along like a bunch of prize fools.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “At any rate, April supposedly will provide the real tell. If Rossi again announces a delay”

            I think June better aligns with your thinking: that is when Rossi has said he’ll be doing something. April is when something (release of ERV report) over which we understand Rossi does not have independent legal authority may or may not happen.

          • bachcole

            “Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.” That is a social statement, NOT a scientific statement. Socially, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence if people are going to believe it. Scientifically, ordinary evidence works just fine for extraordinary claims.

          • jimbo92107

            Good point. All I ask of Andrea Rossi is ordinary, irrefutable evidence, not his theory or his recipe. Bring to an open public forum a Quark X matchstick attached to an ordinary 100 Watt incandescent light bulb, running non-stop for several hours. All circuitry visible inside a clear plastic box, nothing under the table, etc. No chemical power source can do that in a matchstick form factor.

            Would you agree?

          • jimbo92107

            No problem. If he needs a few more circuit elements to light his New Fire, go right ahead. It still needs to run, and keep running, and keep pumping out 100 Watts of DC. No battery in a small, clear package can do that. Thing is, it needs to be a free-standing unit, so people can pick it up, look for an induction coil on the bottom, etc. And Rossi should have no objection to somebody replacing his table with a card table. Only serves to make the demo more credible, right?

          • Omega Z

            ->replacing his table with a card table. Only serves to make the demo more credible, right?

            You’re a newbie here right?
            Accusations in the past. Heating with a secret laser from a distance, RF/Microwave energy transfer and even a hidden battery which by size and capacity would itself be worth Billion$. The only proof that will suffice is a working product in the market.

          • jimbo92107

            I may be a newbie here, but do you really think a roomful of engineers can’t tell the difference between a real demo and a clever fake? That’s why a real demonstration is done in an open, honest, public place. Hands on, nothing hidden.

            A continuous trickle of teasing emails from Rossi is hardly convincing evidence of a revolutionary power source. It’s more like stringing along a pathetic group of pseudo-scientific true believers.

            Are you a newbie to con artists? I’m not. I’ve actually known one, a guy that invented stories about himself as easily as you and I breathe air. It was remarkable how he talked his way into jobs for which he had zero qualifications. He wasn’t a bad guy, either, just completely full of very polite, pleasant baloney. Eventually he was caught and sent to prison, where he was murdered by guards for exposing a drug ring.

            Andrea Rossi has at most a few more months to prove his inventions are irrefutably real. If so, fantastic, the world is saved. If not, then Rossi’s world will inevitably shrink to a small cell with iron bars. I sincerely hope it is the former, but at this point I must acknowledge that it all sounds too good to be true.

          • bachcole

            Paragraph one: you are used to academic/scientific demos.

            Paragraph two: No one said that Rossi’s trickle convinces anyone. They have meaning because we are already convinced. You may not be because you haven’t looked at the evidence that I just presented to you.

          • Frank Acland

            Thanks — point taken, jimbo.

            One of the goals for this site is that it does not become a debating venue about whether Rossi/E-Cat/Cold Fusion is real or fake. Please check the commenting guidelines http://www.e-catworld.com/posting-rules/

          • Gerard McEk

            I am affright that there will be no news tomorrow:

            Peter Gluck
            March 22, 2016 at 2:13 PM
            Dear Andrea,

            It seems the ERV is perhaps used to play festina lente when it is about a huge responsibility.
            However, the world’s greatest specialist in the Rossi Effect knows everything about the results and has also the bills of the accountant.
            In his opinion the results are good or bad? Is he contented with the COP values
            and other general, basic data?
            He can give the most reliable answer.
            Has he – being given the anniversary of tomorrow a personal message to the spirit of Fleischmann and to Pons?
            A bit of certainty could make many good people happy.
            I prefer a non- public answer if it creates the slightest problem to you.

            Wish you all the best and more,,
            Peter

            Andrea Rossi
            March 22, 2016 at 3:26 PM
            Peter Gluck:
            He,he,he…yes, as a matter of fact I have some familiarity with the E-Cat…
            You are too intelligent not to understand why in my position I cannot absolutely know and talk about the results of the tests before the ERV has delivered them.
            Besides, as expert of the matter as I might be, my personal considerations or results, obtained with my instrumentation, are worth like a joker in a poker contest.
            I am very sorry , but, until the results of the report are delivered, it would be extremely uncorrect for me to make any kind of comment.
            This having been said, I am delighted to remind to our Readers that tomorrow, 23rd of March, is the anniversary of the announcement made by Prof. Fleishmann and Prof. Pons of their experiment. Should they not have made that announcement, probably I would not have worked on the research oriented toward the LENR, and I think this is true for all of us.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • LuFong

            With all due respect to Peter Gluck, who as a true LENR thought leader deserves to know the results as soon as anyone, Rossi has already answered these questions over the past year. It shouldn’t be too hard to connect the dots. All that remains are the details. Patience is the watch word here.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Yeah, asking Rossi for the hint was a bit like asking the white elephant in the room if it has heard of any animals hanging around.

          • John Littlemist

            Pekka, sorry about the off-topic, and pardon my curiosity, but by any chance are you a relative of Timo Janhunen, the inventor of the Z-Engine?
            http://www.aumet.fi/index.php

          • Pekka Janhunen

            No, I’m not.

          • jimbo92107

            Thank you, Frank. Your site, your rules. I do attend other fan sites, for baseball and such. People have honest disagreements and spirited discussions about this player and that, but nobody has reason to doubt the existence of baseball.

            This site is different. Clearly there are varying degrees of skepticism in play, but there is also an element of conspiracy psychology, as if people are unwilling to tolerate reasonably skeptical observations.

            For instance, I could make a “glow stick” with a simple ceramic heating element. I could make Brillouin’s remote demonstration by igniting little puffs of magnesium powder. What prevents people from ascertaining the truth is that they are not allowed in the same room with the demonstration.

            Playing the patent pending card is getting old. Somebody keeps telling me they can throw an un-hittable pitch, eventually I’ll want to see it. Time’s running out for Rossi’s amazing claims. I really do hope he’s got what he says, but there’s really only one way to know. Show us.

          • Frank Acland

            I think we’re all pretty much in the same boat, Jimbo — waiting on further revelations.

          • US_Citizen71

            “Time’s running out for Rossi’s amazing claims.” Why is the end of the universe
            nigh? I think he deserves at least a large fraction of the time that hot fusionists have been given. At this point he barely is reaching one tenth the time they have been given and less than 1/10,000th the funding. The hot fusionists still want more time than he has already used. A square foot of silicon based photovoltaic cells being lit by a flashlight comes closer to unity than any hot fusion experiment to date when you factor in the energy needed to support things like magnetic containment fields and x-ray lasers.

          • bachcole

            “Time’s running out for Rossi’s amazing claims.” That really is quite silly. What is really going to happen is that jimbo92107 is going to castigate Rossi as a crook, and then he will look really stupid.

            Are these people all going to change their handle when the truth becomes obvious, or will any of them have the integrity and courage to say, “I was wrong.”

          • Wishful Thinking Energy

            For the generally reserved Rossi to say he is “very pleased” I think says a great deal about the results. He genuinely sounds like he wants to release the results soon too. Great news. Time to book your tickets to Stockholm.

          • bachcole

            jimbo92107, ALL of us here are skeptics, every last one of us. But at some point the evidence has forced us to believe. If you have not reviewed the evidence and expect us to spoon-feed it to you, that is entirely unfair. We put in the time, I gave you good links, you need to do your due diligence.

          • jimbo92107

            Peter Hagelstein was the original reason I came here, and it wasn’t so much his years of work developing a new Hamiltonian expression to justify the possibility of LENR reactions, it was because he broke down and wept openly that so many unheralded researchers, his friends and comrades, had passed away before the technology could finally be acknowledged by the established scientific community as a legitimate natural phenomenon.

            In the end, it wasn’t watching the MIT colloquium videos or trying to understand Hagelstein’s math that convinced me there could be something real going on with LENR, it was my inability to believe that a man of such apparent high intellect, selfless decency and dedication could spend so much of his career chasing something that just wasn’t real.

            But do you see the problem here? I’m not sufficiently educated in physics or math to actually understand what I was seeing. Instead, I made a decision based on emotion, not on irrefutable evidence. I cried when I saw Old Yeller die. That is not a substitute for understanding what’s going on.

            I’m going to back off for a while and just be a lurker. I don’t want to upset people anymore. Either Rossi has something, or he doesn’t I hope he does, but I just don’t know. Meanwhile, I will tell my acquaintance that his friend should go ahead and put solar panels on his roof. LENR’s going to be a while before it saves the world, if at all.

          • bachcole

            jimbo, I have a B.A. in psychology and a B.A. in philosophy and an A.S. in electronics technology. I do not need a PhD in physics to understand the links that I gave you. While you are backing off, read those freaking links or suffer my displeasure!!!!

          • Omega Z

            Actually, Rossi has done demo’s in the past that were convincing or he wouldn’t have the support of highly esteemed experts in chemistry, engineering and physicists among his Licensees nor would he be working with Industrial heat who had their own people build & test an E-cat. Obviously as a newbie, you just aren’t aware. Ultimately, only a product on the market will convince the majority of people.

          • Veblin

            jimbo92107. It saddens me to see someone so new here becoming skeptical so quickly. A little over a month ago you started posting here slowly and somewhat positively. Now you seem to be much more skeptical. What can be done to help you make up your mind.

            I think I know something that may help. Where you live in San Diego, California, zip code 92107 there is this cranky old man. you should find.
            His name is.
            DR. GEORGE LAWRENCE HODY M.D.
            92109, 92122, 92130, 92169

            He lives very close to you as you can see by his zip codes adjacent to yours. His ideas on this subject may be very much like your own. I would be surprised if you do not already know the famous Dr. Hody, but if not then maybe the next time you turn around, he may be there. Ask about sailing to break the ice.

            Sandy Ego.

          • … plus 10 ‘virtual’ up-votes for that – very amusing! 🙂

          • jimbo92107

            Thanks for your advice, Veblin. What makes me skeptical of LENR is the same thing that makes me skeptical of Bugs Bunny. I just love Bugs Bunny, and I wish he really existed, but the fact is, I’ve never actually met him.

            So far, all of Andrea Rossi’s LENR inventions live in the same house as Bugs Bunny. The idea sounds great, but we have yet to see any of it in real life.

            Cheer up, we have another promise of something like results in April. Then a group of supposedly neutral observers supposedly will tell is whether or not Rossi’s 1MW ecat did what he claimed, although we still will not have seen the actual device actually working.

            Meanwhile, I’m sure Dr. Hody exists, but I have no reason to meet him. Instead, I will go downstairs and take photos of my motorcycle, which is real, and put it up for sale on craigslist, where people sell real, tangible things. I look forward to the day that Andrea Rossi gives us pictures and shows the world that his inventions are real. So far, he has not.

            Pleasant day to you sir.

          • Omega Z

            Just to inform you, Bugs Bunny no longer exists.
            All I can say is emm emm good.

          • Bruce__H

            I’ve never seen this reply to the “extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence” meme. I think you are probably right, though, about the nature of science. We always look for good evidence for any claim and that actually makes it quite an ordinary procedure.

            This is why it puzzles me so much that you seem to think that the merest whiff of skepticism regarding homeopathy is completely beyond the pale. Why should anyone be labelled a “skeptopath” just because they would like to see experimental evidence for homeopathy? Why the defensive attitude to ordinary scientific curiosity and procedures?

          • psi2u2

            If it feels that way to you, fine. It doesn’t feel that way to many here, and many of them have been reading and discussing this matter for several years now. During that time Rossi has made steady progress in

            1) Attracting large amounts of informed capital for further research;
            2) spurring confirmation efforts by MFMP among others;
            3) Obtaining patents;
            4) Concluding a one year industrial level test of a 1MW reactor.

            This was *after* having convinced, in 2011, several top ranking Swedish physicists, among others, that his technology was doing what it said it was.

            Have you bothered to read what Bob Greenyer of MFMP has been saying about that group’s confirmation of several of Rossi’s key scientific points. This is a group that has been working for months to replicate Rossi, and only within the past few weeks have substantially validated his work.

            Although no official results from the one year test have yet been announced, advance leaks have been unanimous in suggesting that the test was a smashing success.

            If this turns out not to be the case, then we will have to re-evaluate his success. But right now, your comments strike me as sorting of like Noah’s wife saying “I don’t feel any rain yet.” Why not wait a couple of weeks and see what happens?

            As Bachole says below, many of Rossi’s “extraordinary claims” have in fact been verified. Over the last nine years, moreover, ever since 60 Minutes did a stellar program on “cold fusion,” the basis for doubting the existence of the phenomenon has been thoroughly destroyed by credible research and witnesses. The only remaining question is whether Rossi has successfully produced a commercially viable prototype based on a new science that nearly everyone who has examined the evidence admits does exist.

          • jimbo92107

            Good. I hope it’s real, and Rossi is within a month or so of proving it. Let’s hope he’s got something tangible to show us. Vaporware gets boring.

          • artefact

            On JONP:

            “Carlie Gowins March 22, 2016 at 4:25 PM
            Dear Dr Andrea Rossi,
            If the E-Cat quarkX will result to be good and ready for the market at
            the end of the preliminar R&D will you make a proper presentation of it ?
            Something that will be attended by anybody interested, also live online, in all the world ?
            F8,F9, obviously,
            Carlie

            AR: I think so. F8, F9.”

        • bachcole

          I agree, sort of. But notice that we all believe in the expanding universe, dark energy, dark matter, and other wonders and miracles with about the same degree of certainty. Well, actually, I don’t because I am aware of how much confirmation there is with those ideas.

          • jimbo92107

            I don’t “believe” in any of that stuff. It’s what scientists say, they have a reputation for being methodical in their approach, and I have no research of my own to counter their view. They win by default, and even they are not 100 percent certain.

            In contrast, Rossi’s claims can be confirmed with relative ease. What astrophysicist would not dream of such simplicity for proving a theory! A simple 100 Watt incandescent light bulb attached to Rossi’s Quark matchstick is all he needs to convert his bold claims into tangible reality.

            Rossi has announced this development himself. It costs him nothing to show me, or lose my interest rather quickly.

          • Perhaps you could explain why you think Rossi would be in any tiny way be affected by your loss of interest?

          • jimbo92107

            Irrelevant what Rossi thinks of me. Relevant is that the world so far has zero reason to think Rossi’s inventions are real.

            Seen the Big Report yet? Me neither. Somehow, it got delayed. Interesting how that seems to keep happening with Rossi…

          • jimbo92107

            Unless you have some new mind reading technology you’d like to show us, I don’t know how you know what Rossi is thinking.

            Making excuses for Rossi is not persuasive. Projecting your own interpretations on his refusal to bring forward an irrefutable demonstration of his technology is not a sign of patience, politeness, or wisdom. Rather, it is a sign of true believer thinking.

            Do you know why I said Rossi should show up with a 100 Watt light bulb? Because Thomas Edison would have done that. Edison understood the vital nature of public demonstrations. They separate real inventions from bogus hokum. From Edison’s light bulbs to the Wright brothers aircraft, it takes real life demonstrations to convince the world that your stuff is real. No amount of papers, black board scribbles or 3rd party testimonials will substitute for that light bulb on a table, burning brightly with nothing but a Quark stick and a few little things in a clear box, that anybody can pick up and pass around.

            First, they set a certain date, and everybody gets excited. Then, the date passes, and nothing happens. Disappointment! Then come excuses, and another date, not too far off. This time, we’re sure it’ll happen!

            What am I talking about? End Times religions.

          • bachcole

            Your 1st paragraph makes no sense whatsoever to me, so that is as far as I read of your comment. All of the evidence that I consider to be of value has absolutely nothing to do with what Rossi says or thinks.

            Check out this evidence, then think about it, then get back to us.

            First, proof for LENR:

            Pamela Mosier-Boss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLuTRReSIrg

            Mike McKubre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtweR_qGHEc

            Next, proof for LENR+ a la the E-Cat:

            http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913

            http://www.scribd.com/doc/242284200/Observation-of-abundant-heat-production-from-a-reactor-device-and-of-isotopic-changes-in-the-fuel

            If you have already looked at this evidence and believed it, then you just don’t have faith in your own self. If you have already looked at this evidence and did not believe it, then I can’t help you, now. Perhaps later.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Why do people even bother reporting Krivit’s “news stories”? He is a baboon with a megaphone and a totally biased agenda, an all-around poor excuse for a man.

      Has he ever been shown to be right about anything?

  • jimbo92107

    I came here with an open mind. I would like nothing more than to see LENR validated and adopted as soon as possible. What you are now calling “hatred and vengeance” is a sign of your own obsession, not mine.

    Fact: Andrea Rossi has been accused in the past of being a con man. Given that history, you might think it in his best interest to be as open and honest about his endeavors as possible, yet here we are on an island of speculation being spoon fed teasing tidbits by the very same man whose past results have hardly inspired confidence.

    Hatred and vengeance? Hardly. I find all of this to be quite entertaining, whether it turns out to be a world-saving technology or just another self-serving technological scam, of which there have been many. Our increasing desperation to find some miraculous solution to our pollution problems makes us vulnerable to scammers looking to trick rube investors out of their money. Do you think such scammers don’t exist?

    Promises of miraculous performance, along with a complete lack of concrete, verifiable evidence. I don’t mind being a fanboy, but right now I wouldn’t throw a penny in Rossi’s direction.

    • Frank Acland

      I think JiW was not accusing you of having hatred and vengeance — rather referring to the NET

    • JiW

      jimbo92107, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean _you_. I meant it as a general comment about people and their obsessions, and in this case it was about the style of Mr. Krivit’s recent “news”. You, one, a person… I often make mistakes with impersonal pronouns in english.

      And I agree with you, all of this is quite an entertaining and interesting phenomena, and such scammers as you mentioned can indeed exist. My current guesstimate: Rossi has what he says: 15%, other options: 85%.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      If common law habitués had a faint glimpse of what the Italian judicial system is capable of, they would not be able to call Rossi a con man, even after an official conviction.
      Personally, I think Italy is a wonderful place for vacation.

      • psi2u2

        Even on a short vacation it is quite possible for an American, especially one traveling alone, to fall prey to the Mediterranean tricks known as “basta fuori” — beating up the outsider with a stick. There’s a reason Rossi prefers the US. The US is certainly not perfect, but the mafia has less control here than in Italy.

    • psi2u2

      “Andrea Rossi has been accused in the past of being a con man.”

      Fact: Andrea Rossi has attracted financial backing from some of the most astute investors in the tech sector in the United States and England. Either they know more than we do, or you are accusing the likes of Tom Darden of being dupes for a “con man.” There is nothing in his history that suggests the viability of this conclusion. Do some due diligence.

      Fact: Many informed observers believe that Rossi was essentially framed by the mafia and/or became a victim of market forces beyond his control that radically depressed the price of oil, making his technically viable processes for converting garbage to oil unsustainable economically.

      If we are going to report rumors, they should be placed in some larger context.

      • to be more precise, Italian justrice after few trial concluded:
        – he did not any fraud
        – he stored his biofuel which was legally waste, and waste to be retreated, without the permit
        – he recycled gold in a way which was illegal
        – he tried to escape tax and bankruptcy after he was put out of business
        – rossi paid tax on the oil he produced, but law said it was not oil but waste.
        – his clients defended him in court

        later we found that
        – the chief of tax police (guardia di financia) who pursued him was caught later as corrupted
        – camorra at that time started to dump illegaly waste in south of itally while the green were increasing regulation and cost of waste treatments
        – the cost of cleaning of the site increased hugely
        – some unknown actors sabotaged the site, with the only apparent goal to force the authorities to pay the cleaning, at the expense of the city, the environment and rossi.

        given that one can propose the following theory :

        Camora in the 90s exploited Green laws to sell cheaper illegal service for increasingly costly waste.
        Rossi at the same time was proposing cheaper service (even if I suspect his process was polluting and he had not finished the industrialization).
        He was put out of business by a corrupted system.
        Consciously or as “idiot utile”, Media supported this, as guardia di finanza, and politicians.
        Mafia also tried to get benefit from cleaning rossi’s site at the most expensive possible cost, sabotaging the site to force payment.

        Rossi was not perfectly innocent in that I find probable that :
        – his process was still polluting,
        – he accepted wastes while not totally able to treat them perfectly
        – he tried to escape money from his locked down company

        • psi2u2

          Alain, thank you for filling in these critical details!

          It is clear to me that Rossi was the victim of a “perfect storm” involving other bad actors and declining oil markets. This time he’s the one who is, or shortly will be, driving down the price of oil. Such “revenge” must be sweet when you’ve been through the terrible things he’s been through.

    • Rene

      The best way to look at the Krivit article that two days after publishing it, he had to add two sentences to his original article that moved it from seemingly solid evidence over to conjecture and innuendo: “Apparently” and “[March 12 update: Two sentences were added to the beginning of this article.]”
      That said, I hope the ERV report comes out soonest.

  • My feeling is that although IH may not be in a hurry to make any announcements, that too much is going on in the background for the information flow to flatline for the rest of the year. I’m reasonably sure that there won’t be anything that the MSM can’t ignore though.

  • radvar

    An important angle for me recently has been the relationship between cortisol, emotion and discursive thought, which can become a vicious cycle, spiraling first up (“indignation”, to put it politely) and then down (mental exhaustion e.g. burned up all the neuro-peptides, and subsequent loss of emotional control, ending in adrenal exhaustion).

    Cortisol drives adrenaline which drives discursive thought. Controlling the cortisol with diet and supplements is not an obvious point of intervention, however, it’s possible. I’ve had success using ashwaganda for cortisol control. Though carefully. Tincture has been ok, not too expensive; the capsules just knocked me out.

    I was also told that cortisol can be related to GI stress e.g. gluten and other things that can be directly related to diet. I think that warrants further exploration.

    The best cognitive intervention for me has been from the Gelugpa teachings of “no essence”.

    Emotional intensity corresponds to the degree of reality that we assign to phenomena.

    For example, when we thought the report would come out in March, we had strong feelings about it. When we realized it won’t come out in March, that that was “not real”, our feelings decreased.

    Turns out If we simply question the “realness” (e.g. solidness, separateness, absoluteness, un-changing-ness, permanence, etc), of the object of our attention it starts to break the assignment of realness to that object or situation. That in turn starts to release the emotional intensity with which we view that object or situation.

    The key is to understand that according to the best analytic thinking we can muster there is no “essence” in anything. There is no hard little nugget of absolute reality anywhere. Things exist, there is an external reality, it’s just that it doesn’t have any essences. “Essence” is just a mental shorthand that we are really, really, stuck with.

    If we do the analysis, we find that it’s all just a network of energy patterns infused with observing consciousness. No essences. Anywhere. In anything.

    Because if things had unchanging essences, they could not interact with anything else, and there would be no phenomena at all.

    The trick is to connect our everyday thoughts with that deeper understanding that there are no essences, and then triggering that understanding with the phrase “no essence”.

    Starts working pretty quick, gets better with practice.

    • psi2u2

      Ashwaganda works for many in this way.

  • jimbo92107

    Here’s an idea. How about Andrea Rossi shows up at the New Energy World Symposium with an E-Cat Quark X. Just one, his 100 Watt matchstick, powering a regular incandescent 100 Watt light bulb, all day, or however long the symposium lasts. Just leave the burning bulb on the table, running all day. No battery or mini fuel cell could do that.

    And then the question is, will he find a reason not to do such a simple demonstration? Will he find a reason he just can’t show up at the symposium? If Rossi has what he has been claiming to have, a simple demonstration of his Quark will reveal nothing secret. He has almost a month to set up a simple light bulb circuit. Can he do it?

    • Brent Buckner

      The New Energy World Symposium is set for June – I don’t know where you’re getting “almost a month to set up”.

    • Christina

      One reason could be serious security. That light bulb arrangement will have to be protected as well or better than the crown jewels–because technologically that is what it is.

      If I were Rossi, I wouldn’t do it unless I had all the security personnel and equipment and personnel that those had who would protect the crown jewels if they were travelling.

      Putting the E-cat QuarkX out there like that is just asking to get ripped off.

      I’m not suspecting those attending, but would you want to take the chance of becoming someone’s hostage so you can procure the E-cat for them under pain of death of yourself, a friend who’s attending, or your family’s health.

      Gee, think espionage, etc. now. This is BIG! Unscrupulous nations will be trying to steal this.

      • jimbo92107

        Nah, a single Quark ain’t all that. He’s got more, and nobody knows the formula. Assuming it’s legit, Rossi’s got enough of a technological lead so backwards engineering a single Quark wouldn’t do much. And if it does get stolen, whoever tried to copy it would instantly draw suspicion if they mysteriously came up with their knock off.

        Folks at this site are cutting this guy ‘way too much slack. Andrea Rossi’s got a date with Show Me Something Real. Folks here should stop protecting this guy from reasonable skepticism.

        • LarryJ

          Demos are a complete waste of time. Nobody except us is going to pay the slightest attention to a demo. The mainstream scientific community will scream fraud and the press will follow their lead. Not only is it a waste of time but a successful demo would serve no useful purpose and as Christina points out above, might be a security issue. What does it really matter if the world thinks CF is possible or real. They all think hot fusion is possible but when. If you really want the public’s attention then give them a product. No demo is going to speed up that process. The upcoming ERV report should encourage the financiers and possibly assist the domestic certification but the public will ignore it.

          I am sure that Rossi could care less whether or not people cut him some slack. He knows what he’s got and so will his investors when the ERV report comes out. When skeptics post to his blog he simply says “You may be right” and goes back to work.

          • jimbo92107

            Complete nonsense. Every product on the market depends on demonstrations, and any competent engineer could arrange an irrefutable demonstration of something as revolutionary as Rossi’s stuff with no trouble at all.

            Where do you get this attitude that Andrea Rossi is an except to the basic rule of “show me?” Only a gullible true believer talks like that. The more I hear these defensive, emotional reactions to normal skepticism, the more dubious this whole thing looks.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi said a couple years ago, No more Demo’s. And Demo’s are not cheap. In business, it is considered one of the major expenses. They consume both large sums of money and manpower that could be better utilized elsewhere. Robert Godes of Brillouin energy when asked to do another Demo said he would if those who want it covered the cost. $250,000

            The only people who have a right to ask for a Demo are those paying for the R&D and potential business customers. Demo’s will never convince the skeptics as they will always find issues and once Business uses it the general public has no need for a demo.

          • LarryJ

            Normally I would agree that a demo might be useful, but only with a device that people know to be possible. This case is exactly the opposite. Everybody knows the product to be impossible or so far in the future as to be practically impossible, much like hot fusion.

            You say “Where do I get this attitude that AR is an except to the basic rule of “Show Me”. This actually is my point. “Show Me” is the only thing that will do it for Cold Fusion. My point is that irrefutable demos of impossible devices prove nothing and are ignored, disputed and refuted. If you want “Show Me” then nothing beats buying one at Home Depot or WalMart. When a person can do their own demo they will believe. In this case nothing less will suffice.

    • clovis ray

      Hi,Jimbo
      Explain Why you think, He would want to do that, he will need absolutely no advertisement.
      Word of mouth, and the msm, will be more than enough for a short time, then it will be an all out program to produce as many as possible, to satisfy the need.

  • I have sufficiently information from multiple sources to be confident that there’s a reputable third party and that there are some kind of tug of war going on. This is really interesting.
    BTW I just watched the movie ‘The Big Short’. What’s going on now isn’t necessarily anything smaller.

    • Guest

      Are any of those sources affiliated with IH? Or have they responded to any questions about their recent statement?

      Just given some of the specific language in that statement about not relying on statements from other parties I’m wondering if you have any contacts there?

      • I have no direct contacts with IH, but in different ways, messages or indications are reaching me. Again, what seems to be going on is very interesting. I hope I will be able to cover it one day.

    • builditnow

      Mats, timing is trick however. If you get it wrong you loose your “shorts”, pun intended.

  • Brokeeper

    But will the red wire or the yellow wire be cut in time?

  • LuFong

    Rossi is now saying on his blog that he expects the report by mid-April. Will be a very exciting 2-3 months after this although a lot is riding on a positive ERV report. I hope in this time there is also more confirmation of replications (should be) which will bolster Rossi’s credibility as well.

    • artefact

      On JONP:

      “Rodolfo March 21, 2016 at 7:59 PM
      Dr Andrea Rossi,
      Do you think the report of the 350 days test of the 1 MW plant will be delivered by the half of April?
      Thank you if you can answer,
      Rodolfo

      AR: I think so”

      • Frank Acland

        Delivered to Rossi/IH does not necessarily mean made public by then.

  • Omega Z

    What ->”retarded bomb maker would do such a profoundly stupid thing?”

    One that watched to many TV shows thinking it’s a requirement.
    The government tracks the Amazon delivery of those little beepers and flashy lights. That’s how they get caught. 🙂

  • Owen Geiger

    Is this part of leaked ERV report??? (humor)
    http://www.southernstudies.org/images/sitepieces/vogtle_redaction.jpg

    • artefact

      Twice the word evidence. I knew it would be good. 🙂

      • The Lugano report was not delivered by a commercial entity, used to comply with commitments, but by a group of researchers taking all the time they wanted to get ready.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Gerard McEk March 22, 2016 at 7:08 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    It is good to hear that the E-cat X Quark still works to your full satisfaction. It seems to me that you are mainly focusing on that. I have a number of questions, if I may:
    1. Is one of the the main reason to choose for further development of the tiny Quark in multi unit fashion because you can better control the output power?
    2. Do you have a multiple Quark unit in operation?
    3. Are still E-cat X units in operation?
    4. Will you also continue development on the E-cat X?
    We all are looking very much forward for the test results, as you can imagine. We all hope the result will be positive and that your hard work in these endless inhuman shifts weren’t for nothing. Keep going! Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi March 22, 2016 at 7:15 AM
    Gerard McEk:
    1- yes
    2- yes
    3- EcatX is evolved into QuarkX. Is the same thing, evolved.
    4- always
    Thanks for your kind wishes,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

  • Frank Acland

    2. On march 23, are you going to honour Peter Gluck’s wish “to help the LENR World celebrate the 27th anniversary of the field with a decisive victory?” for example, publishing the Executive Summary of the ERV Report or even better the balance of energy bought vs energy sold made by the accountant of the Customer during the 350 days of the experiment?

    Andrea Rossi

    March 22, 2016 at 9:00 AM

    Amos:
    2- The report of the ERV has not yet been delivered.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    • Mike Henderson

      It is quite simple to write a report that says “There’s nothing to see here, move along.” It takes a lot longer to write a report that will change the world and bring a lot of attention to the referee.

      I still go with February 2017.

      • Omega Z

        ->It takes a lot longer to write a report that will change the world

        And due to it’s significance, they will scrutinize it very closely several times if the results are positive. If they get it wrong, it will reflect badly on them.

      • LarryJ

        I expect the main purpose of this report will be to convince the investors that the development of the ecat is worth pursuing. The public will be given key points like average COP but the supporting data will likely remain confidential and only available to those who need to know, the investors and the certifiers for instance. On the one hand this will cause the skeptics to cry foul but on the other it will provide very little of substance for them to refute.

        For those of us already convinced by the caliber of the tests and data already published and by the integrity of the people directly involved, even a limited data, positive report will be immensely encouraging. I do hope the identity of the ERV is disclosed since in the absence of hard data, the integrity of the parties involved is the major support for my belief in this tech. A reputable referee would leave me somewhere near ecstatic. Regardless the public will still be unmoved and the world will continue to wait for products.

        • DrD

          You mention certifiers. In fact I think this is as important as the commercial justification. The safety aspects such as the stabilty and especially the lack of radiation of any kind needs to have been unambiguosly demonstrated.
          Regarding the COP, I know some of us are optimistic it will turn out to have been at least 6 and more likely well over 20.
          However, do we all appreciate that the E-catX will most probably have an infinite COP. Of course AR won’t comment — it will be F8,F9. Just imagine how the world will react to that.

          • Yes – the readers of blogs like this have had plenty of forewarning, and time to get used to the idea, but it will certainly come as something of a shock (assuming such news is ever released) for those who have never heard of either Rossi or cold fusion.

            BTW, I’m not sure about ‘infinite COP’, although I suspect it may be close. An electrical ‘jolt’ may be needed to kick the reactors into action, and ongoing control inputs may be necessary, perhaps bringing the COP down to a mere few hundreds!

          • DrD

            Yes, I’m guessing of course. If he uses a few of the quarks to generate a high % of electric, that should be enough to provide the power to keep them all running including controls and even store enough to enable the initial start up, which may happen often as he seems to be planning to control the output by shutting down some cells. I’m guessing that he will be getting a single quark COP of at least 20 (heat only) so input power will be very low (<1/20).
            That's based on the rumours that the 1MW plant achieved, (was 20 to 80?) and has said the catx COP is much better.

          • DrD

            To look at another way, If the indivudual COP is >20 he needs to produce 5% electric from each quark to require no additional input (ignoring start up and control).
            I’m optimistic but can’t wait to know for sure.

          • I agree that some kind of ‘compounding’ might work to make a reactor overall self sustaining, especially if we have correctly understood AR’s comments to the effect that his ‘quark-x’ can convert heat from other sources (read thermal e-cat X I guess) to electricity. I suggested something like that a couple of threads ago, but of course we don’t really have much idea of the various power outputs, operating parameters etc of any of these new beasts (not that we have much idea about older versions either!).

            My thinking is that while old versions of e-cat used EM stimulation of some kind (‘frequencies’ in Rossi speak) to generate magnetostrictive effects in the nickel, I speculate that in the new generation of layered e-cat X reactors he now uses an AC or pulsed DC current flow directly through the nickel ‘fuel’ layers to induce electrostrictive effects instead. The power and frequency of these inputs are probably also the initiation and control system for the reactors.

            If this is the case, there will be a need to supply this power at least initially from an outside source, which would mean that technically the COP could never be truly infinite. End of quibble.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            „I speculate that in the new generation of layered e-cat X reactors he now uses an AC or pulsed DC current flow directly through the nickel ‘fuel’ layers”

            I like this idea. This would save not only space, the more direct energy flow might also facilitate control. And you could reach a higher current density which should be an advantage as well.

          • DrD

            He has mentioned compounding in his blog.
            Start up power could come from the 1% stored energy I mentioned (stored in a battery).
            The EM excitation is all part of the input energy from which the COP is calculated (which we don’t know yet). IF 20, it is only 5% of TOTAL OUTPUT. I’m not saying he would chose to go this route but it’s possible and an infinite COP would be an impressive achievement.
            Of course the real INPUT power is from E=mc^2 but every one ignores that.
            Watch this space.
            Yep, end of quibble.

          • Omega Z

            DrD
            You don’t want them all running continuous, that would be a huge waste of energy and waste has cost. I believe 1 of the main purposes of the quarks are to scale output to demands of the moment. Whether that be 100 watts or 20KW.

          • DrD

            That’s what I thought I said viz:,
            “That may happen often as he’s planning to control the output by shutting down some cells.”
            Apologies if I wasn’t very clear.

          • Omega Z

            Apologies, After another cup of coffee, yep, that’s what you indicated.
            It will work if he can get the start up time low enough.

          • Omega Z

            Morning Peter, I agree it needs power at all times. Only the amount is in question.

            Having followed Rossi’s posts for a while :-), I’m pretty sure even when in SSM a small amount of stimulus is necessary to keep it going. On the 1MW plant, it appeared according to the numbers provided by Rossi to be about 2% of rated capacity of 1MW. This also fits the narrative that the device shuts down immediately when power is disrupted.

            However, lets assume people get what some seem to be wishing for.
            You kick start the reactor and it runs until the fuel is exhausted.
            No E-cat for the public as Rossi obviously has no control once activated. This would be available only to a select few corporate utilities with a 24/7 government employee standing by with a self destruct mechanism. A safety requirement. As they say, one should be careful what they wish for.

  • Frank Acland

    Interesting, what have you heard about the ERV?

  • Ged

    I have to disagree there. Rossi’s patent getting granted, the advent of IH swooping in to scoop up a chunk of the IP, millions of dollars in investment (carried along by IH, however), and this 1 year test all came post Lugano report.

  • Ged

    How can any claims of credibility one way or another be made by anyone, unless they know exactly who the ERV is (no speculation)? Thus, if you know the identity of the ERV, please do tell us.

  • They’re working on replication and will probably remain silent until they have something substantial to report.

  • DrD

    Well it won’t be long before that speculation is history and we’ll know if youre correct. Mid April we think, or they might even surprise us on this anniversary.

  • artefact

    On JONP:
    “Andrea Rossi March 23, 2016 at 6:55 AM
    Frank Acland,
    The low temperature E-Cat too has been evolved during the 352 days of test, due to all the problems we had to resolve, but in a less revolutionary measure, due to the fact that we had to stay within restricted risk limits not to compromise the results, while with the Hot Cat we arrived to the E-Cat QuarkX thanks to our freedom of risk.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • LuFong

      One thing that I find interesting and I hope the ERV report results clear up is why Rossi is saying 352 days. By my calculations based on Rossi’s clear earlier statements the test lasted 362 days. Given that there were numerous problems and that Rossi was indicating the test would go into March, having a 350 day test last only 352 is curious.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        As far as I remember, they were about to replace the fuel because the performance of the reactors had decreased too much. The next day Rossi stated that the test was over. So maybe the ERV and/or his client had approved stopping the test at this point, since it would not have made much sense to replace all the charges in order to gain a few days of additional operation.

        • LuFong

          Yes that’s one good explanation why they terminated the test early but the numbers still don’t add up. But is the 1MW still operating? If yes then it makes sense to replace the charges as required. Rossi has gone completely dark on the 1MW plant and we have to wait till after the ERV report to ask about the plant.

          • Gerard McEk

            AR does not want to reply on that. I do not know the reason. Maybe he just wants to close the subject.

          • LuFong

            A little more candid now that he’s away from the heat of the battle:

            Andrea Rossi
            March 23, 2016 at 7:54 AM

            Giuseppe:

            It will take time. Many problems emerged from the E-Cat after months of operation 24/7.

            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

        • bachcole

          Makes better sense to me than some of these other very negative interpretations. It would also greatly simplify calculations.

      • Mats002

        F10 which give a “He he he!”

        • Curbina not logged in

          I’m thrilled to see f9 is no longer in use. I am sure skeptophatology will make the last ditch effort, but I think once the report is known, the skeptophatology will fade slowly away…

          • bachcole

            Naaaa. Some skeptopaths will continue to deny it. It just depends upon how deep their disease state is.

    • Gerard McEk

      I have already said before that I believe that the COP of the tested plant will be more than enough the prove that LENR is grown-up and a viable new energy source. AR woudn’t spend 16-18 hours per night during a year if the COP were too low.
      Obviously the plant had also to prove that it is fit for purpose. As we know there were numerous occasions where a part of it failed due to many different failures. Some of them included also the core. If the frequency of failure is considered too high than the plant could well be considered as unreliable and therefore not fit for purpose yet. Another issue maybe that unstable elements are formed as Bob Greenyer, has suggested, which would also be unacceptable.
      I guess for most of us a considerable COP would be fantastic and the real proof of LENR when signed by a credible organization and I would be very happy with that result. AR wants more and that is understandable, because he has to answer for the considerable amount of money already spent.

    • NCkhawk

      I’ve been wondering why somebody in this forum has not done the math around the heat output of the 1MW system that Rossi has been testing. He lived with that thing for 60 to 80% of the day and should have been par-boiled by the system heat no matter how efficient he was at transferring steam to another system. A 1MW system in a shipping container which is apparently in a confined space doing work for the customer can only be so efficient. At 24MW/day, my guess is that temps had to be 150F+ or so around that device. Did any pictures ever show a cooling system? How was it so cool that folks could be working beside it for long periods of time? Did the building have AC? In FL, it would have needed to be really beefed up to make it so Rossi could coexist with his creation.
      Any thoughts on that?

      • Frank Acland

        He did mention that the shipping container had air conditioning.

        • NCkhawk

          Frank – I maybe incorrect about this thought but it sure does seem that a 1MW steam system will need more like an industrial cooling system rather than an AC?
          This is a huge amount of heat on a daily basis. In coal burning equivalent, that is close to 800lbs of coal per hour (depending on quality / heat values). Imagine the heat removal you would need to handle that kind of output. Rossi and his associates would have been baked lobsters if they just had an AC system. Perhaps that explains the rapid shift to electrical quarks. (real F1 or imagined F2).

          • Frank Acland

            I believe Rossi said there were actually two containers connected — one for the plant itself, and another for the workers, which I think was air conditioned.

          • NCkhawk

            Frank – duly-noted. Working from memory, the pictures of Rossi listening to his device, it doesn’t seem very hot or even warm in the vicinity. The control container pictures also appear to show the doors open and not protecting from outside heat or keeping cool air inside. I think this is yet another valid curiosity.

          • DrD

            If he has a good heat exchanger (which I have no doubt he has) then he wouldn’t need any cooling at all.
            If still in doubt, wait for the ERV but given that it’s probably a non issue it might not even get a mention.

      • Did you notice the thick insulation on the output pipes? All that would be necessary to keep the ambient temperature down would be a couple of extractor fans – no cooling system required.

  • Gerard McEk

    Thanks Bachcole, you must be very good in math! 😉

  • Sanjeev

    Rockefeller fund dumping fossil fuels….. big news I guess..
    HOUSTON, March 23

    The Rockefeller Family Fund said on Wednesday it will divest from fossil fuels as quickly as possible and “eliminate holdings” of Exxon Mobil, chiding the oil company for allegedly misleading the public about the threat of climate change.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/rockefeller-exxon-mobil-investments-idUSL2N16V14A

    • clovis ray

      hi, buddy, yep,it hard to believe huh, this is not there first cut, check this,NEWS

      SEP 22 2014, 10:20 AM ET

      Rockefeller Trust Will Divest Itself of Oil Investments
      The Rockefeller family, which harnessed the oil industry to amass one of the greatest fortunes in American history, is getting out of oil.

      The heirs of John D. Rockefeller, who founded Standard Oil in 1870 and became the wealthiest man in the United States, plan to announce Monday that their charitable trust will sell its investments in fossil fuels.

      The announcement came a day ahead of a United Nations summit on climate change, and as world scientists reported that countries are spewing a record amount of carbon pollution into the air.

      The trust, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, was valued at $844 million at the end of last year. The Rockefeller family joins a growing movement of charities, pension funds, universities and other entities that have moved money out of fossil-fuel investments and into cleaner energy.

      Arabella Advisors, which tracks the trend, reports that institutions, governments and people who control $50 billion investments in all. The New York Times and The Washington Post first reported the Rockefeller family’s plans.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys.
    One must remember, that no electricity was produced, it’s product was heat, which i would think was removed from the reactors and transported to the work. therefore one would think that as much heat was possible would have been removed from the reactor area, not sure about this scenario, and how much residual heat was left in the contained, but evidently not much.

  • M.A.G.

    A kind of a stupid question:
    As far as I understand manufacturing and use of nuclear devices (of any type) require any permits and regulations of certain government agencies.
    Does anyone know has Rossi received such permission or not? If not, how he held the one-year test? Illegally or what?

    • Brent Buckner

      I don’t know. I am not a lawyer. However, these folks seem to be pretty keen on making Fusors: http://makezine.com/projects/make-36-boards/nuclear-fusor/

    • DrD

      Yes,
      Some one even reported him but he was clear.

      • DrD

        Re above

    • Michael W Wolf

      If it was radioactive don’t you think he would be glowing after a year in that 1mw prison?

  • ROSSI and IH HAVE RECEIVED THE ERV REPORT.

    Rossi is happy.

  • artefact

    Goodbye F9

    • Gerrit

      “to release the report publicly in the near future” – F9

      • artefact

        But I allready removed F9 from my keybord!

        • Mats002

          ^^

  • Excellent news. I guess I’m very close to confirm the New Energy World Symposium now!

    • we-cat

      Dear Mats,

      Congratulations for you too. Although if the ERV report contains what we hope for the story would have matured on its own, you have been key in painting the context for the interested, in which this marvellous story is developing. Your work is highly appreciated!

      For the short term I truly hope your symposium will succeed beyond your expectations. You might want to start thinking about the logistics, because this could be the Woodstock of LENR / Rossi.

      For the longer term i foresee that the world will get to know Mats Lewan a bit better through the many media interviews you will give to explain this great new scientific field and its main players.

      All the best,

      JB

      • Thank you we-cat. If I have contributed to something good for the world through my work I’m more than happy.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I am thinking Pulitzer brother. 🙂

  • Bob Tivnan

    Very good news! So, Rossi says ” I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly in the near future. ” I wonder what the hold up is. It’s interesting that he includes IH in this statement- it’s unlike him to to mention his partner on JNP.

    • Frank Acland

      They have to decide what will be made public and what will be kept confidential. I am sure some interesting negotiations will be taking place.

      • timycelyn

        That’s going to be the new source of speculation, isn’t it? Will we get:

        1. The lot
        2. High level data only (trends, rough COPs, etc) and the ID of all the players (I.e. disclose validation company and customer)
        3. 2 without the ID of the customer
        4. Only some high level data with all new IDs withheld
        5. Nowt.

        There’s a whole range of additional outcomes that fit between these points, but that’s most of the obvious ones I can think of.

        My betting is on 3 at the moment…

        • Bob Tivnan

          Doesn’t the credibility of the report hinge partly on the customer’s first-hand testimony? I will be disappointed if the customer doesn’t come out of hiding. Otherwise, there will be a perception that they ARE hiding something. Full transparency is needed once the details of the report is released.

          • Frank Acland

            I think it hinges on the neutrality and competence of the ERV. I don’t think it is required the the ERV is world famous , but they need to identify themselves and be shown to be qualified. I don’t think the customer’s identity is as critical, although it would be nice to hear from them.

          • timycelyn

            Frank, you beat me to it!

          • BillH

            If this is all as good as it sounds then they should convene a press conference on the customers site as soon as possible. Where we can see the actual plant, someone from the ERV, copies of the report distributed to the press, and the customer being handed over the plant for absolutely free! in exchange for allowing selected experts to view the plant in action.

            Then the revolution can really start.

          • Hi all

            That would be the point of employing APCO Worldwide.

            Kind Regards walker

          • LarryJ

            The revolution will start when we see products in the market.

          • timycelyn

            Perfectly fair point. I would suggest the weighting of this varies according to the ID of the ERV.

            If it’s ‘Measurements Inc, The Boondocks, Arkansas, then testimony from the customer would be the big deal that maintains credibility, but if it’s a company of the standing of UL then that’s it. Job done.

            Even if the customer’s ID was revealed, it would hardly be noticed…

          • Frank Acland

            If we had the customer’s word only for all the savings they had made, it would be a nice testimonial, but I am sure there would be people who would question their impartiality. We all know what the skeptics would say if that was the main proof.

          • bachcole

            Right. Without the ERV’s first hand announcement, there is no confirmation.

          • LarryJ

            Remember that this report was not commissioned to convince the public. It was commissioned to confirm that IH fulfilled it’s contractual obligation to the customer and I think the primary purpose was to assure investors that it is worth the vast sums of money required to bring it to fruition. Rossi has also indicated that it could be helpful to the certifiers. Transparency is not an issue. The people that need to see it will see it. If we get to see it that will be an encouraging bonus but it is unlikely that it will capture the public’s attention.

  • Buck

    Does this mean F9 and F8 becomes FINE on this new path of FATE

    • DrD

      Not F8, thats the E-Catx R&D

    • Obvious

      Expect plenty more F9. The Lugano test wait, before the 1MW test was also full of F9, but without the handy short form button. There was quite a bit of F9 (in the long form) even before Lugano.
      Now it will be E-Cat X, Y, Z with F9…

      • DrD

        No more F9 I trust, only F8 left now.

  • Gerard McEk

    This is great!! I have to prepare some presentations now, I guess. I hope we will get some details soon.

    • Andre Blum

      looking forward to them, Gerard!

      • Gerard McEk

        Can’t wait!

    • Gerald

      I’m thinking the same Gerard. As a starting sheet I’m thinking to compare our total energy usage needed for cooling over a year against the total heat production from the e-cat in the years test..

  • bachcole

    Although this is not exactly confirmation, I will jump for joy and tell my family. I do trust Rossi up to this miracle and wonder. (:->)

  • LuFong

    Yahoo! Things should really start to move now.

  • Now…

    Who or what is the ERV? Are they credible and independent?

    How does Industrial Heat react?

    Does the report get released (at least the executive summary)? Or has the dependence on secrecy become permanent?

    • That’s what I fear.
      A totally unknown and dubious ERV.

      This would leverage the complete last year.

      • Brent Buckner

        With IH’s involvement I have negligible concern about the ERV being “totally unknown and dubious”.

      • Guest

        Barty, would it be better or worse in your mind if the ERV turns out to be too-well-known (i.e., any of the names associated with previous 3rd party tests – Levi et al, Penon, etc)?

        • Very very bad!

          At best it is an employee in a very serious position of a well known and state trusted certification organization.

          In germany we would say “TÜV” (see wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_Überwachungsverein).
          Don’t know how the equivalent is called in the US.

          • Guest

            I am highly concerned the ERV is going to turn out to be someone already familiar in this story…

            And if the customer’s name never gets released (or worse, it does get released and it’s JM Products Inc – ask me why later if this does in fact happen) then all the optimism I’m feeling about Rossi will come crashing down in a moment…

            Given IH’s silence on this topic in the context of their recent letter, I’m also worried about what their level of ownership/involvement in this test has been…

            But fingers crossed none of this comes into play!

          • Frank Acland

            I think the most important thing that will come out of the report is the beginning of the building of production capabilities. It sounds like that has been accomplished.

            What gets released publicly will be very interesting, especially us on the outside, and hopefully we can learn a lot more about the capabilities of the E-Cat, but I think in the long term won’t be as important as getting E-Cat products into the market, which is what this whole project has been all about.

        • cashmemorz

          So you are saying that the power produced by the photovoltaics, as in the picture, fed into a LENR device such as an E-CAT x will produce 20x the power that comes out of the photovoltaics? Then an investment in the pholovoltaics will not be a total loss in terms of the future worth of the photovoltaics.

          • DrD

            If it’s an E-Cat x, it won’t need the PV’s, it only needs a small part of it’s output as electric to provide the 5% for it’s own power needs.

      • Frank Acland

        Well, I would be surprised if it was anyone from the Lugano team. Rossi has said the ERV is involved in nuclear engineering, and those guys are academics.

  • Tom59

    Nice from AR to inform us immediately!

  • LuFong

    It sounds like Rossi wants to release the full report–“I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly[sic] in the near future.” While I’m not expecting this I’ll be extremely happy if we get at least the executive summary and the name of the person/organization that performed the test.

  • Ramos

    Rossi spent 1 year in the contener, he more than anyone, wants to see his work revealed.

  • Stephen

    I’m so happy to read this. I was dozing quietly then when I woke up to find this news. Absolutely great!

    My huge respect also goes to everyone here who has been following and supporting this from the beginning. It seems now your sustained support is coming through. What a Great Day.

  • Wow!

    • clovis ray

      you took the words right out of my mouth, –smile

  • Seems big-oil has reached the end of an era. It keeps getting slammed. Governments will change.

  • vokzzi V

    Soon, we will experience a similar thing as spectators at World’s Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi March 29, 2016 at 3:52 PM
    Nils Fryklund:
    Now the industrialization will be faster. Tomorrow I have an important
    meeting with the ABB guy for the robotized line to be made in our
    factory.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Mike403

    Share this. Do what you can to spread the news. It may take the media a while to get this ‘out there’, but the more that can be done via Twitter and Facebook etc., the harder it will become for this revolution to be suppressed. Carpe Diem!

    • SG

      I agree with this sentiment. I get the feeling that Rossi agrees with this sentiment generally as well. However, I get the sense that IH is much more reserved and publicity-shy. This may be for strategic business reasons, but I think they are going to have to come to grips with the fact that they have a tiger by the tail and the tiger is about to growl very ferociously.

    • hempenearth

      Tom Darden does/did not want publicity. He may not want it published. Or the customer may not want it published, at least details of their energy use – they may want to maintain their advantage over their competitors for as long as possible. After waiting years so far I can wait a bit longer to get a “bird in hand” before sharing.

      • Mike403

        No: This is our chance to help push this agenda along. If we do nothing then we make it easy for IH etc to set the stage according to their wishes / paradigm. If we try and ‘push’ this it may just achieve ‘breakout’ into media (and general public awareness).

        • hempenearth

          Breakout into the media (and general public awareness) is just what Darden & IH didn’t want. Maybe that has changed, given the communications with that global PR company and I’ll be happy to share the report when IH & Rossi release it. They may still not want a breakout into the media and may release only parts of the report to dampen the excitement – as Timycelyn mentioned below.

          • Mike403

            PUSH PUSH PUSH!

      • Lightning Mike

        Ha! Lol. That was from a monthly astrology column I write for a local news site. Just repeating rumors from this site….getting excited though! Might try to write up something special once we get the report. At least I know I can get something posted that will reach this little corner of the Oregon Coast. Hopefully this will bring a big sea change in the media coverage though 🙂

  • pg

    Andrea Rossi

    March 29, 2016 at 4:09 PM

    PG:

    No more F9, still F8.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • bachcole

      If that is not code I don’t know what is.

      But, I forget, what did F8 mean?

      • LarryJ

        F8 = Once the preliminary R&D of the quark(x) is complete

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    This is great news for two reasons, the report is positive, and Rossi definitely shows independence from IH. I was afraid he was being censored by IH. He is still that independent, free market
    entrepreneur, inventor, genius and humanitarian we all have grown to love.

    • Curbina

      Bernie, the fact that Rossi has not released it and mentions “I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly in the near future.” IMHO, points out to the possibility that Rossi is not free to spill the beans right now and has to be in agreement with IH. Take this in context with the APCO delivered announcement, and we might be beginning to see a certain degree of struggle to withhold information by part of IH. I hope that I am wrong, but I would not be surprised that I could be right.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Rossi’s stating he might be able to release some kind of summary in 10 days, but the headline as of now is miss-leading, since the ERV or IH not stated they will release a summary, but only Rossi – that’s if he allowed to.
        R
        Albert

        • Curbina

          I hope he is allowed.

      • bachcole

        The appropriate idiom is not “spill the beans”. It is “spill the diamonds”.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          You do know that ‘bean counters’ do not actually count beans…

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    So the report is very positive. I think we all assumed that to be the case.

    I presume the following:

    – The EVR will report a nuclear origin as explanation for the delivered energy;
    – COP possibly 20+;
    – Contractual obligations by Rossi have been fulfilled;
    – Strongly decreased customer energy bill (this should be the strongest LENR evidence available ever delivered (IMHO));
    – Report will be published within 10 days by Rossi or IH/Customer;
    – Fine as the report may turn out, the real target will be the e-cat X; this is the holy grail (electricity, light and heat) and will probably the end product we will eventually buy. The quarks are derivatives of the same technique.
    – The endgame has begun: if MainStream Media picks this up, players in this field will be forced to come out into the open with their own products / results. If this still doesn’t get picked up by the MSM, at least the hidden big players such as those in the oil and energy industries will have to act so we should see some more stock exchange movements and long time investment strategy changes for those players.

    Even if this does nothing in MSM, we should realize that we are a relatively small and extremely well informed intelligent group of people compared to the interests and knowledge of most journalists in this topic (Mats Lewan excepted of course ;-).

    So it wouldn’t surprise me if even this report isn’t enough to convince MSM to run the story. It still is a tainted topic and I suspect most journalists don’t:
    – believe the story as all “counter scientists” say it’s impossible;
    – are suppressed by their editors;
    – are afraid to run against popular opinion because of their career;
    – simply don’t do enough research (it is after all a difficult subject).

    • Stephen Taylor

      It remains important for Industrial Heat to endorse the very positive results.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Yes they should, but for whatever reasons they have been players on the background so far. I’m not convinced IH will come out in the open even after a very successful report unless MSM picks up the story.

        For now I’ve only seen statements meaning semantically nothing from them. Just some PR talk that does not contain any fact at all.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Industrial Heat have been careful in their communications for whatever ( normal business) reasons. Importantly, they made a point of stating they did not endorse any reports or statements by anyone without their specific acknowledgemet. Hopefully they can get comfortable with the report and the publicity. It is understandably confusing for us here in the spectator stands.

    • deleo77

      If it is a COP 20+ mainstream media will pick it up. One year of testing from a 3rd party referee with that COP would be newsworthy. Of course skeptics, the media, investors etc are going to go through this report with a fine tooth comb. IH said to only rely on data that comes from them. I have to believe that they are the one’s who will release the report, along with a press release.

      • SG

        Probably. But if they don’t, it will get out. Information wants to be let free. Too many people know about the existence of the report.

      • LarryJ

        This report will be disputed and refuted by the scientific mainstream regardless of its results and the media will not say boo without support from mainstream physicists. The only thing that will change public perception will be products in the market.

    • Bob Greenyer

      If the report is clearly positive and independent – or anyone replicates our results – there are several news reports ready to be printed.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        It hard to tell if this report will “fish” out the Financial Times and Popular Science articles – however, it might be “close” enough. (you probably have a better feel – since you been “feeding” these artciles like little Robbins with worms of info!)

        I suppose this report will “fish” out some news articles depending on who was the ERV?

        There ALWAYS going to be claims that the ERV is not, or was not independent, or he was duped! However, I think for the readers here, the most exciting part will be mention of the COP. Is it 12, or 70? I not yet convinced this report will spill into mainstream.

        A soild replication on your part likely can do as much if not MORE then this report!

        I hope the report will continue to inspire your work, your efforts, and your sharing of the LENR story. Can’t wait for your next cool run and experiment – that’s about the only exciting event after the ERV!

        (unless Rossi going to public demo a ecat-x running!)

        Have a super day – ok!

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • sam

          There is no way that they did a year of testing and invested a pile of money and not have a
          top notch EVR report.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Absolutely!

            I accept it going to be a good report.

            However, due to NDA and security issues, then many details such as where the plant is, who used the plant, who paid for the input power etc. Etc. are likely to
            be withheld.

            So a secret plant in a secret location for a secret customer, with a secret un-known technology has some magic box that makes energy?
            You can see the problem here!

            So a first rate report with above restrictions on parties involved still gives rise to considerable speculation.

            At the end of the day, as I noted, I don’t think the ERV report will be some huge media event. However, for followers of LENR, the report is a boost.

            And depending on how independent the report “appears” then as such it should give the e-cat some welcome credibility, but this is not a mainstream event.

            And we should keep in mind we have no idea when the report is to be released – the 10 days is not a given, nor a solid statement.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        I agree, more “signal” replications and a positive report will give credit to the story.

        I really hope this will be the tipping point and logically it should be. However, I have thought before that MSM would go with the story. If you consider the fact that the main media is in the hand of just 3 to 5 owners, stories like these can be repressed. Eventually and certainly within the next 2 years (imho) the story and the technology will break through into the main public awareness, but I’m still not convinced this will be it.

        I do hope I’m wrong though and this will be the major break through 😉

        • Bob Tivnan

          This recent discussion about the ERV report gets me contemplating the importance of credibility. Here’s my take on the psychology of enthusiasts (such as myself). I crave credibility for Dr. Rossi because it will bring me one step closer to fullfilling the promises that I hold for the E-Cat. The popularity of ECW shows that I am not alone in the way this story has captivated our attention over the last few years.

          But, does acceptance in the court of public opinion really advance Rossi’s goal to create a new industry that supplants dirty fuels with this promising clean energy source? Who does Rossi need to convince in order to turn the tide? We know that Rossi has scoffed at the notion of getting science to give its stamp of approval, understanding the risk of repeating history ala Pons & Fleischmann. Hence, the decision was made to let the customer be the final say on whether the E-Cat could fulfill its promise. Rossi doesn’t need to win over the public or the media who feeds it. He needs OEMS to buy into his dream. Rossi needs to build credibility with industrial partners lIke IH, a company that exemplifies indifference to public approval. As much as we want the world to know that this is the next big thing, Rossi and his partners may be in no rush to see the new energy paradigm explode into the public consciousness. Building social or scientific credibility in the short term just may not be a priority for Doctor Rossi and IH. It’s industry that is being wooed.

          • Eyedoc

            Pretty good astrologer, huh?

          • LuFong

            As a nuclear process, LENR may indeed need strong public support (or at least understanding) to overcome public safety concerns and political issues.

            As for businesses, if this is real, it will be a modern day gold rush. I don’t think you have to worry about commercial hesitancy.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Atomic process.

          • Yes. If the COP is good we can start talking about High Energy Atomic Processes (HEAP), or High Energy Atomic Reactions (HEAR, to include ‘AR’). This is to take distance from the lower energy atomic reactions which take place between atoms and molecules e.g. while burning wood and oil.

          • radvar

            I would expect the report to increase R&D investment, visible or hidden. That’s the critical input that will drive the world-wide benefits of LENR.

            I fervently hope that Rossi is richly rewarded, in both money and personal satisfaction, for his effort and contributions.

            However, I don’t see any reason to think he will be more than the spearhead for the coming energy revolution.

          • Rossi et al. only need to convince one or more corporate-level businesses to involve themselves in cold fusion – even tentatively – in order to succeed. Probability and the ‘soft’ evidence seems to indicate that this has probably already happened, but even if it hasn’t, the confirmed results of the pilot test would make it happen, as fear of losing out spreads.

            Public awareness will probably be avoided for as long as possible, and the potential impact minimised as much as possible when news does begin to leak out of industrial circles.

      • Sanjeev

        Probably you know some of the msm journalists personally, but I agree, there are some publicly visible msm journalists who will publish the news. They have done that in the past.

    • Sanjeev

      – Strongly decreased customer energy bill (this should be the strongest LENR evidence available ever delivered (IMHO));
      I personally think the same. However, do not underestimate the skeptics !
      There will be some people who will say that Rossi, IH, customer, ERV AND the power company are in the same bed. It takes just MS Word and a laptop to cook up a good report with a fake electricity bill attached.

      So I guess the names of the people involved will be a stronger social evidence. If they have a reputation to lose, we will know.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Very interesting, pressure is now on IH, they will hold a press conference or Rossi will release report and IH might lose control of publicity.

    • Bob Tivnan

      So who does the ERV work for? Did IH hire the ERV as a condition for their investment in Rossi? If that’s the case then Rossi doesn’t have the authority to release the report before IH. It would be a breach of contract.

      • US_Citizen71

        How can you say that have you read their contract?

        • Bob Tivnan

          US, I am not saying it is so- it was a question. I am suggesting that the ERV works for somebody and it seem likely to me that IH made the move to protect their investors, which would be a very prudent business decision. However, I’m aware that Rossi could be holding the cards here. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few weeks.

          • US_Citizen71

            Thanks for the clarification. I think the ERV may work for all three, IH, LC and the customer. A third party judge would be very helpful in determining fulfillment of contract on something like the 1 MW plant. I also think that a clause for any party to release the report with notice after X days might be part of the contract as well. There could be advantages to any one of the parties to have it released. The customer can claim green energy, LC/Rossi gets vindication and IH gets a selling point.

      • Omega Z

        5- who paid his work and all his expenses ?
        5- fifty-fifty Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat

        It is a joint decision.

        AR: I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicly in the near future.

        • Bob Tivnan

          Well, that answers that! Thanks Omega Z.

  • William D. Fleming

    Extremely exciting news!

    • winebuff67

      Does this mean mats symposium is on?

      • Frank Acland

        Mats said the report has to be ‘clearly positive’ for him to go ahead with it. I guess he’ll wait to read the report before he makes that decision. Rossi has read the full version, we may not get to see everything that he sees.

        • sam

          I am very pleased with the results.
          Coming in loud and clear.

  • Mike403

    If we wait we may help ‘bury’ this. It (New Fire) needs a bit of ‘blowing’ to help it to ‘catch’ !

  • Brokeeper

    A resounding CRAAACK!!! is heard from the Denial Dam.

  • Veblin

    Industrial Heat Goes Cold on Rossi
    March 29, 2016 – By Steven B. Krivit – Sssssssssss
    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/03/29/industrial-heat-goes-cold-on-rossi/

    • Krivit is still kicking right up to the end.

      • psi2u2

        You gotta give him points for not giving up easily.

    • LukeDC

      Ill tell you why he didn’t get a reply.
      It’s called a server side Exchange rule.
      “Move all email from newenergytimes.net” to “Junk”
      Would you think for a second that loon would get a reply from an entity that had dumped cash onto Rossi?

    • Teemu Soilamo

      When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging.

      • NT

        Yeah, Krivit is in over his head and the walls are caving in…His days are now numbered…

    • LuFong

      IH ignores the troll Krivit and he takes IH’s refusal to answer his questions as confirmation. Krivit’s typical post is to intersperse facts with insinuations and negative remarks about Rossi. This is not journalism worth even reading. While I think the next 2 months will hold some negative surprises, I think Krivit is about to go down.

      • Guest

        He also cites his own writing as if it were confirmation from another party…

        • US_Citizen71

          Maybe he has split personalities?

          • psi2u2

            Ok, I will here quash the rumor that Mary Yugo is the real Steven Krivit.

    • US_Citizen71

      ‘Darden and Vaughn won’t talk to me so that must mean that they are breaking up with Rossi.’ – If I was anyone involved in LENR R&D, Krivit the Snake would be the last person I talked to about anything including the weather.

      • SG

        Based on my observance of Krivit over the years, he is the last person I’d want to talk to period–whether involved with LENR R&D or not. He doesn’t come across as a particularly pleasant person.

      • psi2u2

        Such logic. Such confidence. Such overweening hubris in a small bottle.

        • Yeah! And this Krivit Guy is a “reliable scientific source” for wikipedias negative LENR article….what a shame now, when EVERYONE can clearly see that Krivit sells his own opinion as “news”…

          • psi2u2

            This is typical for a “reliable source” on wikipedia on a controversial subject. I have written a couple dozen plus articles on a prominent humanities topic in peer reviewed journals. There is a gang at Wikipedia who routinely scrubs articles related to this topic. I am on an apparently permanent topic ban for trying to edit articles on which by any reasoned standard I’m a work expert. Wikipedia is great for anything already settled or where disagreements are only ideological. For something like LENR, it will be the last place to get it right.

    • Omega Z

      Industrial Heat Goes Cold on Steven B. Krivit.

      They want to maintain a healthy distance from him as they are WELL AWARE of his shenanigans.

      • bachcole

        I notice that Google News IS publishing Krivit’s articles regularly and nothing positive. Another bunch of ********* setting themselves up for a really big fall.

  • LION

    Bob Greenyer said 2 months ago, that he had spent several hours in August 2013 with Clive Cookson at the LONDON FT head office- so they will be following this development and networking. I bet they will run a story as soon as it is prudent to do so, there is kudos in breaking a BIG story.

  • Frank Acland

    Good idea. I added the word ‘version’.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Yogi said: “It ain’t over ’till it’s over”. I hear a soprano warming up but I’ll wait to see if she’s gonna sing.

    • NT

      Yes, my wine glass was broken – ha!

      • Stephen Taylor

        Already smashed it in the hearth? Several of mine are in there with yours and still we wait, but warm and smiling, no?

        • NT

          Yeah, enjoyed the moments and wine anyway – glasses are pretty cheap at the dollar store. Lets hope this one is the real thing that puts LENR in the mainstream…

  • Albert D. Kallal

    And you have a link as to where you read this rumor?

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • PappyYokum

      The link is included at the bottom of the post.

  • Frank Acland

    Brian Josephson wrote on the LENR Forum: “An email from Rossi indicates that the report will be released in 5–10 days.”

    • LuFong

      He could be talking about Rossi’s synopsis. The release of the ERV report would be fantastic.

      • Mats002

        Nice to know a little about the ERV person, would be interesting to know if he has support from a team behind and also a characterization of the company he represent. Is it a one-man company or a well reputed company?

        • I hope the latter.

          All other “one-man”-things would be a hard slap in our faces 🙁

          • LarryJ

            It is not a slap in the face. It is just business doing what it does best which is bring products and services to the market. Once that happens then the revolution begins. We are still in the “laying the foundation” phase. All we believers need to know is that Rossi says the report was positive. Rossi Says has been working like a charm for years and I expect it to continue doing so. People who still think Rossi is a scammer are delusional.

            Or as someone here once stated. The lineup of experts Rossi has fooled has become embarrassingly long.

          • Karl Venter

            Come on APCO
            Give us your best opening salvo
            You are after all the 2nd biggest privately owned PR firm

          • artefact

            Something epic for the history books please!

          • Dods

            So with a positive report on the horizon, 10 day’s are all thats left for the scientific community to save face.

            Fear, Agenda, Suppression, Ego is how the world will begin to wake up and see you.

            Not a FASE worth saving and no amount of fall guy’s will put the fire out.

            Lets all hope its a fraud for the sake of science as there will be no place to go from here except to reboot it.

          • MasterBlaster7

            Yah know…who wants to take bets?

            That when this report is released, you will hear noting but crickets from the MSM and MSS.

            I’m really curious to see if this is going to be the true inflection point.

            The way this world turns….I give it 50/50.

          • Dods

            Similar odds to what i was thinking as well. Still its got to be an uncomfortable feeling sat in that office right now wondering if its the heating that’s up to much making you feel dizzy or a foreboding sense that all is not right.

          • MasterBlaster7

            You know what I bet it is going to be like….

            I don’t know if you have seen “The Big Short” or not…it’s an awesome movie…go see it…but….

            I bet it will be like (spoiler) in the movie when the 8% is reached and the entire bond market is collapsing and all the ratings agencies are still marking everything as triple AAA. And all of the ones in the right and in the know (us) are like WTF…and one of the guys is like…”it could be that we are living in a completely fraudulent system”….then in a few weeks it visibly collapses…after all of the insider trading of the big’s to extract themselves “fraudulently” from a terrible situation that they were in.

            I bet it will be like that. I bet this report sets a fire inside the house of cards built by MSM and MSS….it will be a while till we see the collapse.

          • Exactly. Only difference is that the energy market is more liquid than the CDS market Dr Burry was betting on, whare Goldman/Deutsche were pricing the swaps with monumental spreads, before the crash was a fact and they themselves had sold the long side to the taxpayers … (and this guy Lehman … )

            Something like that is going on in the oil bond market right now, where Goldman and his friends are offloading $100 bn or so of junk bonds to unsuspecting new shareholders … They will keep rumors alive about OPEC talks of production cuts etc. to boost oil price until this is done. This is a well rehearsed game … 😉

          • MasterBlaster7

            Interesting. I was talking more/kinda apples and oranges with MSM and MSS compared to markets…not a direct market to market comparison.

            But, I don’t know. I have heard theories like this before. But, I don’t know if the market Big’s are trading on the success of LENR just yet. I mean, if “The Big Short” taught us anything is that big money is stupid. Now, I think eventually something like you suggest will come about, but I am skeptical as to if the Big’s are in the know or in the care about LENR. I could be completely wrong, but I think they are all still looking the other way and that all of the oil moves are based on the roller coaster reality of what is going on in the oil world; outside of LENR. Again, I could be completely wrong but that is my gut feeling.

          • Nope. Goldman is NOT stupid. They came out on top last time, and they will do it again. And they certainly watch LENR; Blackrock even said so officially. And they have been divesting oil field assets as much as they can together with Big Oilcos. And even Rockefeller are selling all Exxon assets. They pretense it is for ethical climate reasons …

            Sure …

            Of course they sell because they do not believe in the fossil fuel future. And it is not because of solar … (they are not buying those stocks)

          • NT

            What are they buying into with all those billions of sold fossil fuel assets? The money has to be going somewhere…

          • Mostly USD cash in long and short term bonds. Followed by blue chip bonds and stocks in selected sectors like consumer goods, utilities (the grid will live on), tech in general. Picture below show some markets (risk adjusted) since summer 2014.

          • cashmemorz

            Not only are they looking at E-CAT World but also at the other big players in LENR such as the GeNIE Reactor that uses raw uranium ore for a 50 year long charge time, and the SUGAR aircraft of NASA that uses LENR. But, then what. The big players know how to average out or mitigate such threats by investing in the most likely to succeed using diversified portfoilos. Their money managers are actually the ones in the front line of knowledge and are doing the hard number crunching for them but its for the big players benefit.

          • psi2u2

            This is sensible enough, but how do you interpret Sifferkol’s graphic evidence to the contrary. He has correlated significant drops in oil over the last several years with major LENR announcements. Is this just a coincidence?

          • Dods

            Parellels to movies I got a good one.

            Your Ruby Red Slippers are your first piece of evidence that spurred you to take on this adventure. The yellow brick road is the timeline with all its different forks that have tried to mislead you along your way. The tin man, scarecrow and lion are the hero scientists that want redemption also and have helped you along this journey. The witches there are plenty of names to which people can label them. The ERV report will be the curtain flung back to reveal the new reality behind. You my friend have been living as modern day Dorothy and Toto is your dog you wouldn’t want to go on a walk with him.

            Tell me this does not ring bells with anyone? lol

          • Brokeeper

            Good, maybe its time to expose all the dirt in the house to be cleaned and dumped into the white collar trash prisons.

          • Omega Z

            Should the market is collapse so goes the economy so goes LENR.

          • jousterusa

            Perhaps not when they are trying to preserve some issue of self-interest. But they are frequently ethical on behalf of clients, who sometimes wish they were not, and never tire of pointing out their ethical decision-making in a given matter, often amid great tedium on the listener’s part..

          • Guru Khalsa

            Why we may not see the Report for 3 months at least. I hope I am wrong but:

            IH seems to be in charge of producing the 1 MW low temp Ecat and Rossi the EcatX. But it may not be in IH’s best interest to publish the report before they have a product to sell. The first reaction to such a report by the public may be ‘show me the product’. Rossi wants to mass produce the EcatX and impact the market quickly. This will not work if the Ecat is not a mature product, a product recall at this point would be a disaster. IH may be thinking along similar lines.

            Rossi has just finished a year sitting in a container nursing his fledgling Ecat, and it seemed from the sidelines that it was touch and go till the end. My take is that plant is not ready for prime time but the basic technology has been validated. Hence there needs to be an Ecat 1MW plant second generation and maybe even a 3rd gen and it will need to be tested before production. My guess on the minimum time needed is 3 months or longer.

            IH seems to be taking a very cautious approach. Remember this statement from IH … ‘there is a long and continuing pattern of premature proclamations in the LENR sector. … society and the industry suffer when results are promoted and claims are made without rigorous verification and precise measurement … any claims made about technologies in our portfolio should only be relied upon if affirmed by Industrial Heat and backed by reputable third parties who have verified our results in repeated experiments.’

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/03/10/industrial-heat-makes-statement-regarding-lenr-industry-developments/

            It is probably in IH’s best interest, regardless of what we want, to want until it is sure it has a rock solid product before it allows the full report to be released. Sorry for the not so upbeat projections.

            My hope is Rossi is allowed to tell us the COP and other details, and something more than the standard line: cop > 6.

          • Brent Buckner

            You wrote: “IH seems to be in charge of producing the 1 MW low temp Ecat and Rossi the EcatX.”

            As I have, Rossi has told us that:
            o IH has exclusive rights in various territories for manufacturing and selling *both* the low temperature E-Cat and the E-Cat X; and
            o Leonardo is *choosing* to manufacture and market only the E-Cat X in other territories, but does have rights in those territories respective of the low temperature E-Cat.

          • Guru Khalsa

            That is also my understanding.

          • psi2u2

            Not upbeat, but well reasoned. Hopefully you are wrong, but you give good reasons why there could be a delay.

        • Gerard McEk

          Yes, that question was not asked, a pity!

        • LarryJ

          That information is only relevant if the investors deem it relevant. I wouldn’t be surprised if the customer and the potential investors were asked to approve the ERV prior to his being retained. There seems to be a general impression that this report is supposed to convince the world of the reality of cold fusion but that simply is not the case. Only products in the market will do that. A lot of money is about to be spent and the justification of that expenditure is the purpose of this report. Rossi said he could hardly wait to talk to the robotics people tomorrow. I expect he will be placing a large order.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Thank you for sharing this. The “original” text Rossi used was un-clear. This sounds far more direct.

  • psi2u2

    “May God help us for the hard work waiting for us all.

    Warm Regards…”

    You see, that, right there, is a good example of why I never bought the “Andrea Rossi as scammer” story.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Because scammers never use religion to advance their cause? Come on. Obviously, if this is a scam, it is a masterful one and every single aspect including the aforementioned one will have been meticulously planted into Rossi’s persona.

      • psi2u2

        Not at all. This is a typical pseudo-skeptical misinterpretation. I refer to Rossi’s mention of the fact, that for him at least, a positive report is only the precondition for working even harder to accomplish his goals. Were this an isolated incident, I might think nothing of it, but I’ve closely followed many of Rossi’s statements for some time. Example: “What you see as success I translate as responsibility.”

        As you yourself suggest, Teemu, “”obviously, if this is a scam, it is a masterful one…” So actually we agree. I didn’t say it couldn’t be a scam, I said that this sort of statement by Rossi is among the many indications to me that it is not. Hopefully that is now clearer.

  • Sanjeev

    We (the lenr fan club) are also very pleased !
    I’m happy but not surprised. In past few weeks there were some events hinting towards this possibility and the publishing of the report now seems to be only a formality.
    So only things that remain to be revealed are the customer and the ERV. Of course these are most important things to know. I’m hoping that the customer will not be IH themselves and the ERV will not be the same old Lugano team.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I doubt the Lugano team has anything to do with this. That team was in Europe, and this is a USA industrial customer and setting.

      And the test + monitoring lasted for a year – a VERY long time. We are talking about VERY serious money having been spent here. One has to keep in mind that people monitoring something for a year is not cheap.

      In fact, this cost issue makes we wonder how independent that ERV is?

      So I doubt the ERV is any name or anyone we heard of. However, who the customer is, and are they owned by IH etc., these are certainly issues that will affect credibility of this report.

      I should point out that a COP of 10, or a COP of 80 also does not make the test more, or less credible. Here is hoping to the rumor of 20+

      And to be fair, a test of 30 days, or 60 days don’t make much difference.

      However, a 300+ day test? That is significant, VERY significant.

      At the end of the day, people who don’t believe in the ecat will continue to doubt this report. (and a 1 day test, or 300 day test will NOT make one tiny bit of difference).

      So this report will not be a slam dunk for skeptics, but to quote Winston Churchill?

      This is the “end” of the beginning
      for skeptics to doubt the commercial viability of LENR.

      Beginning of the end: Winston Churchill

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRH5wzCQQw

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Pekka Janhunen

        By the way, concerning people who don’t believe into something, when I googled up the Disney movie I noticed there are also some online “communities” who do not believe in the existence of nuclear weapons. Youtube seemed to offer such links although I didn’t open and check them.
        When I was a kid, I had an “uncle” (=an elderly male relative living in the countryside) who didn’t believe in the moon landings. He thought that they did get above the clouds, but not up to the moon.

        • SG

          Yes, these are the extreme of all extreme skeptics. They include the flat-earthers. But I view them as generally harmless. The pseudo-skeptics who hold sway over policy makers cause me much angst.

      • LarryJ

        The length of the test will not improve its credibility. The skeptics and mainstream physics will just say the errors or fraud went on undetected for a longer period of time. Impossible is impossible will be their cry. The test was not designed to prove anything to skeptics, mainstream science or the public at large. It was commissioned to prove to the customer that the contractual obligations were met and that the device is worth the money investors will be required to put up to put products in the market. The fact that Rossi is excited about meeting the robotics vendors tomorrow sounds like the investors were impressed. That is all that matters. This is just another report. You can’t heat your house with it.

      • Th Lugano team has nothing to do with the ERV.

  • LuFong

    There have been a number of older rumors about this COP. I doubt enough people have seen the report to fuel a new rumor. Give it a week though….

  • LarryJ

    We can take heart from a positive ERV but products are the only thing that will actually change perceptions or the world.

  • deleo77

    Hank Mills did a nice job asking Rossi in the negative below to get some answers. Based on Rossi’s answer I think we can look at a COP greater than 6 and no radiation. Will IH put their name on this report and stand behind the ERV? That is another big question.

    Hank Mills
    March 29, 2016 at 6:23 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Is it safe to assume you would not be “very” pleased -beyond simply being satisfied – with the results of any test of an E-Cat product if even a miniscule amount of radiation (beyond background) had been detected outside of the reactors, a detectable level of unstable decaying transmutation products had been found during analysis of the ash, or the COP was below the long term goal of 6?

    Sincerely,
    Hank Mills

    Andrea Rossi
    March 29, 2016 at 10:03 PM
    Hank Mills:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Patrick Ellul

    Rossi changed his “10 day statement” to: “Yes, I will publish it as soon as there will be an agreement”

    • SG

      So that could mean sooner than 10 days, or it could mean later. With Dr. Josephson’s post, I tend to think it might be sooner than 10 days.

      • Patrick Ellul

        which “Dr. Josephson’s post” ?

        • SG

          See below. Frank mentions a post from Brian Josephson on another LENR forum.

      • Rossi’s original reply, “I will publish it within a tenth of days” already covered the possibility that it would be less than ten days, so the revised version must mean that it will be more than that.

        • SG

          Yes, it is possible. Although we don’t know the timing of when Brian Josephson received his email. It seems like it is a very fluid situation right now.

          • At least AR seems to be saying that the report will be released – even that seemed in some doubt for a while.

            But of course if the person concerned is a private individual being paid by Leonardo/IH, rather than an employee of an accredited certification company, the impact of even a glowing report is likely to be minimal outside the follower camp and others watching progress. Perhaps that’s why its release appears to be sanctioned.

          • Omega Z

            The question would be who sponsors the ERV.

            Certification Companies(Usually a small core) are made up of a large number of contracted experts as none are large enough to cover the gambit of products that require certification. Like (UL) is primarily an office of paper pushers who handle the paper work. External experts do most of the actual tests.

  • Karl Venter

    I have an Ecat

    • SG

      Care to expound on that a bit? LOL.

    • SG

      Are you the CEO at Swedish New Energy Technologies? Can you share any additional details? If you are him, and what you say is true, then Mr. Rossi is clearly one step ahead. Multiple confirmations from multiple quarters of the world might be just what is needed for a breakout LENR revolution.

      • SG

        Just refreshed my browser and saw your pic. So much for the LENR revolution. 😉

  • pg

    The ERV is one guy?And Rossi paid half of his fee? The skeptics will feast on this like piranhas.

    • LarryJ

      Who cares. This report is not intended to convince anyone but the customer, the investors and possibly the certifiers. The public will only be convinced by products in the market. Rossi has stated this many times and he is correct. The mainstream physics scientific community will also rip it apart just like all the other reports and without mainstream science behind it the press will ignore it. The report is important to us though because it is one more confirmation that a revolution is coming. The CV of the ERV sounds excellent to me and it was obvious that he would not be paid by some independent 3rd party.

    • What counts is the organization to which this guy is employed.

      • LarryJ

        What possible difference would that make. Whether he is an employee of a multinational or a lone wolf consultant, as long as the customer, the investors and the certifiers are happy with his CV then nothing else really matters. The report will have served its purpose

      • Hi all

        Supporting what barty says.

        The ERV will probably be an employee of a certifying and energy auditing corporation, for the nuclear industry.

        Kind Regards

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I do not care much about the “who”, but about the “how”. Full disclosure of the applied methods, used instruments etc. would be very important, especially since there is no precedent for this particular case.

        • bachcole

          So, rearranging the letters makes that much difference to you? Sheesh!!!

    • Barbierir

      Much of its impact will depend on what IH does, if they publish and support it openly then I think we will see some media reaction like in 2011 and possibly a lot more. But I’m convinced there will still be skepticism and fraud accusations. Nothing short of products on the market will put a real end to the debates.

    • Omega Z

      As long as it wasn’t the ERV that approved the Fukushima plant, we’re good to go. 🙂

      • adriano

        Im pretty sure a 9 degree eartquake and his consequent tsunami would make little troubles to an hypotetical 1MW ecat powerplant too…

    • cashmemorz

      One guy that most likely works from a large reputable firm like UL

  • Well. The fact that the ERV person has been paid at all by either IH or Leonardo will be used as absolute proof of fraud regardless of COP (20-80) and other report content. I do not think his employment status will make any difference. He will be ripped apart on a personal level down to his parking tickets. I believe less is more when it comes to the report content and that it would be good if IH signs it off, which I guess is negiotiated right now.

    • Omega Z

      Certification is paid for by the individual or corporation that requests it and they get paid up front regardless of the results. SGS, UL, CE are all private companies.

      • Yes. But we are sort of past this level I believe. Incentives for academia and media and some politicians to delay and induce FUD are huge. All available methods will be used, regardles of ethics. Look at politics to get an idea. It will be interesting to see whare Apco stands …

    • Ged

      When some friends and I finished a basement we had to pay to have it inspected for habitability, in accordance to the law. We paid for construction inspection, we paid for electrical inspection, and we paid for a final inspection. Was it all fake cause -we-, not someone else, had to pay the guy to inspect -our- work? I would have been much happier if I didn’t have to!

      • Problem is; this is not an inspection. This more like politics. The quality of the inspection is not important. Critics will deny it regardless. And they will happily use the fraud/fake/paidfor arguments. And they will go ad-hominem arguments. Because this is what they do. It’s in their nature of denial and/or malice.

        • DrD

          It’s not been done to satisfy his critics. He doesn’t worry about them. Like he says, the mass distrubution will silence them. No report will.

          • Agree. Rossis have known and stated this from the beginning. A little rise in credibility would not hurt him though.

          • DrD

            You know, if I were one of his critics, I would be keeping a low profile from now on. I saw an interview recently, can’t remember who but his body language — he looked very uncomfortable when being shown reputable scientists quoting recent evidence.
            They are just digging deeper holes for them selves and either they know it or they are really stupid, or simply fake.
            There will be a lot of reputations to defend.

        • Ged

          Then they are utter morons. If they do, tell them to send me money for auditors so I can claim them as “independent” for use with my taxes and vehicle and construction and…

          • Unfortunately this is true all to often with auditors in the big corp world. In Sweden they double as tax consultants …

  • Omega Z

    5- who paid his work and all his expenses ?
    5- fifty-fifty Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat

    It is a joint decision.

  • Omega Z

    Oil will still be tied to supply/demand. Currently, most Oil entities are drilling new wells at a much slower rate then old wells are depleting. Prices will always find an equilibrium which will be at cost plus profit. It will take decades to replace oil use.

  • psi2u2

    Actually I’m not sure I can agree with that. There are people active on the internet whose need to identify with “authority” is so strong that they routinely don’t like to have their ideas questioned. They’re a real bane, for example, on Wikipedia.

  • Ged

    I think there is a site called zerohedge.com that you would like :).

    • cashmemorz

      I love their motto on zero hedge: “On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero” He he..

  • Rene

    While we wait for the report, it may be time for some levity:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc

    • That’s where the name E-cat came from.

  • Brent Buckner

    I expect that IH will have made good choices.

  • Warthog

    Hmmmmm. Given the age of the engineer, I wonder if the certifying organization may be European. I’m ten years older than the engineer, and when I went through university for my PhD, the handwriting was on the wall for the prospects of nuclear engineers in the United States, especially for doctorates (nil). My minor subject was “Nuclear Science”, and I had several nuclear engineering students in my classes. Most switched to other study areas. One went to vet school.

    • JDM

      Think US navy.

      • Warthog

        Yes, if you wanted a career in nuclear engineering in the US, the Navy was about “it” after 1975 or so. But that wasn’t nearly enough to take on all of the possible graduates in the pipeline.

        Unfortunately, my school didn’t have a NROTC program, only Army and Air Force. Though not an engineer, I had more than sufficient nuclear background to get into the Navy nuke service.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Some comments have been removed from the JoNP, including the “tenth of days” one.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Maybe IH does not agree with a publication. This would be understandable, given the amount of chatter that one might expect in this case.

          • psi2u2

            They need to at least release *parts* of the report fairly soon or they will loose the p.r. advantage that they currently have. As you suggest, however, they may be weighing this against revealing too much to potential competitors.

          • Brokeeper

            Yes, and I think they had their strategies in placed for months now. They are now only filling in the blanks.

          • Brent Buckner

            Perhaps the E-Cat X has caused them to revisit their strategies.

          • Brokeeper

            Hmmm, good point. I’ll revise to a couple of months.

        • Whats the COP?

          • SG

            More than 6, according to some of Mr. Rossi’s recent hints. Until the report is released, we won’t know the actual number. And even then, the report might not include that information.

          • Brokeeper

            With the very long SSM modes AR has implied I would think way beyond 10.

          • cashmemorz

            Didn’t Gluck leak a part of the report with a COP of 21?

          • Brokeeper

            Yes, but not confitrmed. (like you said – a leak)

          • Matt Sevrens

            And immediately after Industrial Heat issued a press release saying not to trust any figures not directly from them.

          • psi2u2

            I would interpret this as neither a denial nor a confirmation of the leaked rumors, but merely a way of asserting control over the messaging. We must wait to see if the early rumors can be substantiated or not.

          • Rumors from visitors to the plant seems to be in the 20-80 range.

          • Michael W Wolf

            20 means that a 10 cent per KW hour would be one half of one cent per kw hour. I can’t see it being more than 20. If it is, then Rossi is getting close to Mills’ power density.

          • Brokeeper

            Remember, LENR is 8 Million times the energy density than that of chemical.

          • Jimr

            It beats me how we can all be so excited over this with the exception of proving LENR is verified. ( which is very important) The test results are from 250KW units which Rossi says are no longer produced if the Cat X works, ( only for four months thus far) and he only has three CatX’s under test, each the size of a pencil. I would not be thinking of mass production at this time.

          • US_Citizen71

            Mmmm size doesn’t really matter.: )

            Now that is out of the way, the reaction is not completely dependent on the amount of output after some small unit of mass. It is the control of the heat/energy transfer that matters. If you build a bonfire or a small one in a jet stove they both burn and produce heat. The fact that Rossi wants to build small elements is a good thing. Small elements show he has a good idea of how it all works, he still might not know why, but it shows he has a model for designing cores. They will be able to be flexible for build out and configuration. plus it is better to sell the razor blade than sell the razor.

          • DrD

            a) it was holding everything up, it was a “gate”.
            b) It’s a base line. He has told us the E-Catx will be similar but more efficient, more compact etc

            I think the next (1 MW?) units he is installiing are still E-Cats (one mentioned in the US and one in the UK) but I’m not sure about that. He’s been asked many times and I don’t like to ask for further clarification.

          • Obvious

            I guess a McD’s french fry factory.

          • Brent Buckner

            Recall the old IH slideshow
            ( http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/11/06/industrial-heat-slideshow-cobraf-com/ ) with estimated levelized cost of electricity of 3 cents per kWh (and further stating “Conservative estimate – could be as low as 1.5 cents per kWh”).

          • Brokeeper

            Sad Sams Fireworks Co bought that one.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well that half a cent would be just the difference in their electric bill. I didn’t account for the device and all the servicing of it. Nor the nickel and hydrogen used.

          • clovis ray

            Diden’t I/H buy out mill’s here lately.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Not that I know of. Blacklight changed their name not too long ago because the blacklight plasma they were creating was unable to be used by the PV’s.

          • Matt Sevrens

            Rumors amount to nothing. Remember Industrial Heat’s press release.

          • psi2u2

            Yes but we all seem to be very interested in them anyway!!!!

            Lol.

          • cashmemorz

            Interested in a general way until it can be determined to be “newsworthy”

          • Omega Z

            Those who want Rossi to fail would read Industrial heats statement to mean Rossi while Rossi supporters would read that to mean Rossi as to their worst fear.

            I read it as to not listen to the Rumors at that moment of a report being circulated on the net and things that Krivit & others might say in the blogs.

            As Always, IH statements are bland and generic in nature revealing nothing. They will remain so until they are ready to move. I’m certain if they meant Rossi, they would have said so as all reflects on them.

          • LuFong

            You once wrote: “I know first hand from very reliable sources that themselves have visited the Rossi/Industrial Heat E-Cat customer that the plant works very well….The plant seems to be able to produce heat from electricity with a COP in the range of 20-80.”

            Do you still stand by that statement, that you communicated directly with someone who claims they visited the plant?

            Thanks.

          • Yes. I was a little vague above. I’ve heard first hand from vistors to the plant. This has been confirmed by Mats Lewan I believe.

  • MasterBlaster7

    You know…when I first read that…and I was reading quickly…I thought Rossi said…..

    “I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly in a year”

    and I was all like…[email protected]#%#!$%%!#%!#@

    and then I re-read it to read…

    “I hope that Industrial Heat and I will be able to release the report publicaly in the near”

    and then I was all like…..oh thank god.

    also…I love Rossi’s broken English as much as the next guy…but someone needs to tell him that

    “Yes, I will publish it within a tenth of days, anyway”

    …..is about 2 hours….a tenth of a day is about 2 hours.

    • Omega Z

      You know using language like “[email protected]#%#!$%%!#%!#@” can get you banned… 🙂

      Anyway, We will need to wait a little while because it is a joint decision between Industrial heat and Leonardo as both split the cost of the certification.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Not sure about that, maybe either party can can release report after so many days, unless you have read their agreement.

    • Matt Sevrens

      Well he said days. So it could be a tenth of any amount of plural days. So at least 4.8 hours 😉

      • Omega Z

        Or he may have meant 10’s of days. English is a 2nd language.

  • psi2u2

    Since none of us has any real idea who the ERV is, your conclusion that “Rossi has made a mistake…” etc. is the logical fallacy known as hysteron proteron — or, in more prosaic terms, putting the horse before the cart.

    • NCkhawk

      So pleased that you know so much. We’ll see who is putting the cart before the horse. I’m confident that the ERV is going to be a big letdown for many members of this community.

      • psi2u2

        No, I know very little. It is you who routinely draws conclusions ahead of facts. I only know when I see someone who is determined to draw conclusions without evidence. What is your “I’m confident” based on? Do you have any specialized inside knowledge? If not, to me it would seem the better part of prudence to say less. Maybe you will be right. But you provide no basis for agreement at this time, and much points to a contrary conclusion.

      • SG

        And if it is a letdown, the LENR community will pick themselves back up and move forward. This movement does not hinge on one report.

  • Hi Frank, might be time to restart the clock, a ten (or 9 now) one.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea Frank, I think the news deserves a new clock. I love looking at it for some strange reason. 🙂 I liked when you had the oil prices on the sidebar too.

      • Frank Acland

        I’ve been burned by clocks before! Unless we have a date certain, I think I’ll refrain 🙂

        • Brokeeper

          Try this one Frank:

      • Gerald

        I wonder how many words there are on the e-cat site. I probably did read 30-50% ? of the comment the last 5 years. Love to know how many words in “books” I’ve digested..

        • US_Citizen71

          Frank might be able to tell us the total size of the Discus files. Multiple it out to bytes. One byte equals one letter, divide by five for the standard typing wpm metric and you’ll have a good idea on how many words.

          • Frank Acland

            I don’t have the data handy for size of files, but there are 163,016 comments listed for the site over the last almost 5 years.

          • Omega Z

            Frank,

            You should post that to Rossi and his 29,000
            Then say na ne na ne boo boo.
            🙂

          • Mats002

            Talking about it – is the number of unique visitors still around 1000 or can you see a trend upwards lately?

          • Gerald

            With a very big error margin: I copied 25 random comments in word took away everyting but the tekst and it was 3 pages full of text.

            So 16000/25*3 / 500 pages = about 40 books with 500 pages full of comments.

            It’s a really nice archive.

  • TPaign

    One good way to measure whether or not the e-cat is being taken seriously in the marketplace is to review long dated oil futures. Today’s barrel price for December 2024 is $51.65 USD. It may not drop right away after the report is published, but once the “credibility” barrier is overcome and faith in the applied science is fully accepted… look out below!

    • Michael W Wolf

      I think it will be pretty much shrugged off. People will buy them, once they start showing their peers, it will grow. At some point a major company will employ the technology and it will begin to snowball from there. Remember, it will take awhile to affect fossil fuel consumption. Then the price will react to that. Oil has many other uses, I think coal may be affected first.

      • psi2u2

        True enough, but remembers markets are not necessarily rational. I would surprised if there wasn’t a significant dip/plunge on the news of the report hitting MSM, probably followed by a partial recovery when the shock and emotion wears off.

        • Brokeeper

          Too much of a paradigm shift for most to act rationally.

        • Omega Z

          I agree that’s a likely scenario dependent on how this is introduced to the public, I would add that the recovery could likely be full and then gradually decline over an extended period of time during the transition.

      • First to exit will be the expensive renewables. No more investments in solar and wind.

        The actual oil consumption is not important. Saudis have $2 oil that will keep the world going for decades at present consumption. Price is set on futures, so it will drop instantly if it becomes widely known it will be redundant in 10-15 years.

  • Steve Savage

    I hope for many big things from LENR and Rossi… Congratulations! I also hope they DO NOT release the report this Friday…

  • Observer

    How long after the release of the ERV’s name and credentials do you think it will take before the character assassinations begin?

    In the pathological skeptic’s mind, saying anything positive about LENR disqualifies you as a reliable source.

    • Frank Acland

      I give it about 10 minutes.

      • psi2u2

        Ya.

  • artefact

    I think Rossi deleted the answer and the question of update #4 from JONP.

    • Omega Z

      The Questions by Rex still shows on Rossilive at the moment.
      Rossi’s answers are gone both on Rossilive & JONP.

      I assume the next refresh of Rossilive will no longer display the questions.

      Possibly he reconsidered due to NDA purposes.
      T’is not the 1st time he has removed a post.

      • artefact

        Yes. Before he deleted it, it said something like: “I think I can say this without violating any NDA”

      • NCkhawk

        I speculate that R may have discovered that the ERV is not a true PhD.

  • Gerard McEk

    Comment in LENR Forum of Prof. Celani:

    Dear Andrea Rossi and Colleagues,

    I am really happy about the positive results of such, extremely long, test.
    My CONGRATULATIONS to Andrea: he was the real winner of 27 years long battle.
    My opinion is that, if all will go “well”, our world will change quite quickly.
    The direction of changing will depend on the “managing”, in the very near future, such REVOLUTIONARY invention.

    Perhaps some of You know my opinion about managing disruptive technologies that can change the world and mankind. Such was the reason because I joined the Live Open Science (LOS) approach since the beginning (2012), as started from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project group.
    BTW the LOS approach, because the very innovative phylosophy/procedures, was candidate 2 times (2014 and 2015) for the Nobel Prize for Peace, as “supported” both from very high level Professor at Vatican and a Senator of Italian Higher House.

    I hope that Andrea, after proper “private” advantages (i.e. extremly large amounts of money and Honors, to him and to the Company that gave the money) because such invention, will allow to share some of his results to other Scientist to avoid a new “oligarchy” of Energy, like the (very infamous) “Seven Sisters” situation in the 1900 (and up to now).
    I well know that it is no easy but now Andrea Rossi has to demonstrate to be even more brave of previous situations. He will be the ideal Candidate for Nobel Prize for Peace!
    According to the rules, the Selecting Board of Peace Nobel Prize (5 people in total, Norway citizen) has the right to suggest the candidature of a specific People/Organization even not officially presented by usual produres before February 1 of each year.

    Francesco CELANI
    (previous Vice-President of ISCMNS)

    • psi2u2

      Good for Dr. Celani!

  • Ged

    Relax, you just have to wait. There is no problem unless IH denies it.

  • Andrew

    Biggest issue I see so far is

    “5- who paid his work and all his expenses ? AR: fifty-fifty Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat”

    How is he independent if he is paid by the companies owning the product? He should have just done it for free.

    • Frank Acland

      Probably independent enough for the people who are now going to finance the building of the factories and/or production equipment. I think it’s likely that the report was a requirement for the release of new funds.

    • gdaigle

      Perhaps if the money was up front and payment was stipulated to be made regardless of the outcome of the final report the ERV will be spared any recriminations.

      • Omega Z

        Payment is required regardless of the outcome. It is standard practice at (UL), CE etc. These are for profit Corporations. Not Government Agencies. It is how they earn an income…

    • Ged

      Who will pay him then? When I go to the mechanic for my car’s yearly inspection stipulated by law, is the mechanic not independent because -I- pay him to inspect -my- property? Would you rather pay (e.g. tax payer money, and thus pay for everyone else’s vehicle too) to have my car inspected so I can drive it and claim the mechanic was totally independent?

      Seriously, what world are people living on?

    • Albert D. Kallal

      It is quite common when two parties have disagreements in say amounts owned, they will pay for an independent expert to do the accounting.

      Say two business partners are going their own ways, but have huge disagreements about how much the company owes them, then they both often will agree to hire a forensic accounting expert.

      The above is often the only way to come to an agreement between two business partners as HUGE disagreements can appear. So what was the business income, the benefits, or business expenses?

      I mean was that trip to France with wife and kids really a business trip? Or is that income? (if it is income, then that’s money I already received from the company that goes against what the settlement will be).

      So both parties will pay for the auditor despite both parties having a conflict of interest WHEN they pay that auditor.

      You often find that both parties will attempt to “send” documents, or influence the independent expert. After all, in a business partnership, both sides likely think they are owed more then what
      actually occurred. And things like what was a loan or business expenses vs
      money taken as shareholder liability is VERY messy.

      In most cases direct contact with such auditors is NOT allowed.

      So be it forensic accounting, taxes, or in this case power consumption, it not at all un-usual that both sides of conflicting interests pay the auditor.

      So, if I was Rossi, I would not agree to YOU hiring an auditor that ONLY you pay!

      And the other party going to think the same way – they not trust my auditor either!

      So both parties will thus agree to hire an independent outside auditor that they are both comfortable with and can trust – and they each will pay half the cost.

      To the outside world, this certainly does reduce the “arms” length here. However, for the business community, it is more than adequate.

      As I noted previous, I had figured the auditor was expensive, and it makes sense that both parties foot the bill for this auditor. This is better then just ONE party hiring the auditor.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • psi2u2

        Albert, thank you for the very lucid explanation.

      • pg

        No doubt. I have had this multiple times myself. All you say is rational in a business environment. We (the non paying audience of both sides) are the irrational ones, but when you are dealing with a world changing technology, that matters too.

    • Michael W Wolf

      If it produces energy for a year, it does matter “who”, if it were daffy duck, would it change the fact that it produced energy for a year and lowered the customer’s electric bill?

    • US_Citizen71

      I guess UL is just a bunch of scam artists supporting other scam artists as well since they accept money for their certification work.

      • Gerrit

        Thanks for the warning, I will commence immediately to throw away all electronics in my house certified by UL as they were paid by the producers of the equipment.

        • NT

          Funny, but on target…

      • SG

        Do we have confirmation that UL is the ERV?

        • Gerrit

          no

        • US_Citizen71

          No I only use them as an example, but if receiving payment for certification services is considered not being impartial then all UL and CE marks are bogus. Can’t trust them since they received money to do the certification according to the logic that is floating around.

          • psi2u2

            Right. It does seem like a slippery slope to say that anyone who accepts money for testing services rendered is therefore corrupt. I think the world would grind to a halt if this were true.

          • Obvious

            It would make a rather short-lived business to volunteer for testing things.
            Some also say that free advice is worth every penny spent on it.

    • Brokeeper

      Without integrity they would not stay in business very long.

  • Mark S.

    Need to look at who this PhD is, what connections this PhD has with Rossi and IH, etc. Rossi claimed an independent report with Lugano which it was not. Scepticism is in order with this report.

    • psi2u2

      Whether or not it was “independent” is a matter of interpretation and emphasis. What you mean to say is that it “was not independent enough for some observers.”

      It was in significant ways “independent”: Rossi had little to no input in the report. However, he changed the charges on the reactor, and the report writers were individuals known to him because several had attended a previous test of the reactor in 2011. Conspiracy minded watchers supposed that somehow these distinguished physicists must have been in on the “scam.” Others drew quite conclusions and were satisfied, to one degree or another, that the report represented a genuinely independent (if imperfect) evaluation of the test.

      Given that this test was probably a major factor in the decision of IH to invest in Rossi’s tech., it would not be accurate to imply that everyone felt the test report was insufficiently independent to warrant credibility. However, “skepticism” is always in order. We should be skeptical, for example, of analyses issuing from vested parties involved in “Hot Fusion.”

      • roseland67

        “Independent” is way to subjective a term especially in “Rossi speak”.
        I would just like Andre to say Energy out > Energy in, and these guys over here have replicated.

    • Michael W Wolf

      No need to look at who the PhD is. If the customer saved money on their electric bill, everything you say is moot. I guarantee you after three months with no energy output, this would have been shut down. The mere fact they went through with it means we have a new energy source. I am sorry that is bad news for you. But some people are never happy. I have already consumed your share of the champagne. I’ll be happy for you. Nah nah nah na nah nah, quantum physics is over turned and you can’t stand it. Yea, you only care about the truth. What a crock. Skepticism is reserved for intellectually honest people. Establishment and their supporters are at the trough sucking on everyone’s money but their own. You should not slander someone without proof.

      • roseland67

        Michael,

        What if he customers production changed,
        What is the weather was different,
        What if there were less people in the plant,
        What if his cost/kWh went down?
        Paying less means nothing,
        The only parameter that means anything is Energy out > Energy in & replicate
        Anything else is just a sleight of hand, duck dodge and hide, bob and weave misdirection.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Nope, one watt more than what went in is paradigm shifting. Quantum physics is overturned. They would have shut it down if it didn’t produce energy. There are too many people involved. The only ducking, dodging and weaving is coming from the skeptopaths. Establishment, put down your pens and go home, we need people that believe fossil fuels are not the be all end all. I know this for a fact. I am sick and tired of people slandering good people with no proof. The only scam is established science. I don’t want to hear slander about people trying to move the world forward. I want to hear how the people holding the world back get their just deserts.

          • roseland67

            “Wrong again Gilligan”

            If year 1 his energy bill was X$ and year 2 with the Ecat his energy bill was X-$ that means absolutely nothing.
            Paying less means nothing, using less for the same work is what needs to be shown with the Ecat, reconciling dozens of parameters vs kWh is difficult at best.
            Simply comparing is energy bills ludicrous
            And assuming that and $ savings is due to the Ecat is monumentally foolish.
            As always, I would like Andrea to say
            “Energy out > Energy in and these people have replicated”

  • NCkhawk

    Digging thru Frank’s archives, I wonder if this could be the ERV?

    http://www.paginegialle.it/abano-terme-pd/consulenza/penon-Fabio
    He’s listed as M Eng in Nuclear Power in an Elforsk LENR summary document in 2013.
    Lots of speculation but If it is this guy – is he qualified?

  • LuFong

    Rossi just wrote: ” the meeting with ABB has been made this morning and has been the start up.” This is presumably for the low-temperature E-Cat. But we know that that there were problems with it and that some work is still necessary to make it commercial ready. Rossi has stated this. Maybe the production line design and development can begin while this is ongoing but until these problems (and potential new ones) are resolved I don’t see how Rossi can be so ‘positive’ about starting commercial production.

    I’m still hung up with the length of the test as well. From reading Rossi’s remarks it’s clear that there were numerous problems throughout the test, all resolved. Rossi had at one time stated there were more than 7 down days. I calculated that the test lasted 362 days. Rossi has been stating the test lasted 352 days (and lately 353). To get to a 350 day up days, this doesn’t make much sense. I hope the information from the report explains this.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      It could also be E-cat X factory.

      • LuFong

        Well yes possible since the 1 year test might impact the E-Cat X factory but given that he was waiting for a positive ERV report before doing this, it seems much more likely this is about the LT E-Cat.

        Edit: Maybe with the successful LT E-Cat test, Rossi got paid and can start whatever factory he wants

        • clovis ray

          Come on guys, your making this to hard, there is no more l/t cat or any others only e-cat quark x, the thing has evolved get it, i think i will just call it plain old E-CAT, if all the other names are gone, right, why not, the, e-cat sounds good to me, falls off the tongue well.

      • Meeting at 7am east coast time means 1pm in Sweden. Hopefully (bit biased) it’s about a EcatX factory in southern Sweden.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          I was wondering how a company starts a meeting at 7am. If so, it wouldn’t be surprising if Rossi would soon (before June) visit Sweden, perhaps even prolonged visits.

          • Gerald

            Just a guess: If you fly from Zurich it takes 12 hours, so sleep in the plane have the meeting some diner and fly back. Sleep again in the plane. You don’t loose many working hours that way as a european.

          • A tele conference maybe.

          • Gerald

            If this tech is going te be as big as I suspect, you speak in person. For speeding up building factory’s and deliver technology to the world ABB would be a great partner not just a company where you order a factory. I’ll hope they join forces.

          • Maybe part of the team is already in Sweden? Hydro Fusion?

          • Omega Z

            ABB has a Robotic manufacturing plant in the U.S.. Probably sent representatives to Miami.

          • FRAN 34

            How would anyone tell about company meetings publicly in Internet?

          • Omega Z

            ABB has multiple facilities in the U.S. including a robotics manufacturing in the State of Michigan. The U.S. is 1/3rd of ABB’s business.

            There’s a facilty, near Miami Florida and another in Cary, North Carolina that borders/ buts up against Raleigh, North Carolina. Industrial heat territory. As ABB also works with smart grid technology, Tom Darden may already have involvement with ABB.

            https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cary,+NC/@35.7703553,-78.9703931,11z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x89acbd54ff4a8b43:0x44568fdb5a444be1

            Anyway, having a manufacturing plant in the U.S., it’s possible they sent representatives directly to Rossi/Leonardo facilties. Probably Rossi had the ERV report for several days before saying anything and had an appointment setup already.

    • Teemu Soilamo

      Why is this presumably for the low-temp E-Cat? I don’t think there is any such indication.

      • LuFong

        That’s just the way I’ve been reading all his responses. Someone should ask Rossi.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Actually he just answered to Lars Lindberg’s question so that it indicates that it’s indeed X.

          • LuFong

            Hadn’t shown up on rossilivecat. This is big news for me.

            But Rossi’s still in R&D with it – F8 and all.

            I’m wondering what IH is going to do?

    • Brent Buckner

      I think it must be for the E-cat X; IIRC, Rossi indicated that Leonardo planned to commercialize only that technology.

      Regarding the length of test:
      o Bob Greenyer has stated that such a length would be required to know the transmutation pathways;
      o IH may have wanted robustness information for their own cost projections;
      o IH may have felt industrial customers would want demonstrated capability to run for a year;
      o IH may have felt that a one year commercial test might provide a prior use defense in case of a future patent by a third party (per my comment here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/26/always-open-e-cat-world-thread/#comment-2593155446 )

    • artefact

      On JONP:

      “Lars Lindberg March 30, 2016 at 11:48 AM
      What do you start to massproduce?
      Quarks? E-CatX?
      Will it be used only for industries?

      Andrea Rossi March 30, 2016 at 11:55 AM
      Lars Lindberg:
      It is the same thing.
      Yes, waiting for the necessary certification for domestic use, they will
      be initially only for industrial utilization. But I am not very
      pessimistic about the certification on course for the domestic use,
      sincerely.
      Warm Regards, A.R.”

      • LuFong

        Rossi did say this not too long ago:

        Frank Acland
        January 23rd, 2016 at 10:51
        AM

        Dear Andrea,

        Do you expect that the next version of your industrial plants will
        include E-Cat X reactors, as opposed to the current versions of the
        reactors you are using?

        Many thanks,
        Frank Acland

        Andrea Rossi
        January 23rd, 2016 at 1:59 PM

        Frank Acland:

        This depends on how the R&D upon the E-Cat X will go.

        Warm Regards,

        A.R.

      • Bob Tivnan

        “Not very pessimistic”? So he is either optimistic, or he is pessimistic but just not VERY pessimistic about the domestic E-Cats. Ugh, this is the kind of Rossi-ism that drives me up a wall. That being said, I really do enjoy and appreciate his communication with people on his blog.

  • artefact

    Neo can stop it 🙂

  • bkrharold

    Congratulations to Andrea Rossi and his team, as well as Cherokee Investment Partners and Industrial Heat. This is an historic moment in time, the kind which divides history into the before and after a great world changing event. Let us take a moment to celebrate and enjoy the fact that uncertainty has been removed, and we can retire the disclaimer of F12. The patience of the loyal followers of this website, and the heroic efforts of Rossi has been rewarded. This is a technology which will be difficult for corporations to control and ration in order to maximize profits. Welcome to a new era. I look forward with great optimism and joy to all the wonderful changes which will be possible with this new technology. Thank you so much Andrea Rossi, you are our hero.

  • deleo77

    IH paid for half of the ERV. So if there is a bribe they would be liable for fraud. They have outside investors and Cherokee has a lot of assets. I’m sure they worked hard to make this test very transparent. They have a lot on the line here.

    Also, there is the issue of the power company installing a separate meter for the e-cat. How much did the power cost to run the e-cat versus how much did it provide to the customer? Tampering with an electrical meter and committing fraud for a year is harder than it sounds. Utility companies work hard to make sure people can’t steal power.

    • psi2u2

      Right. Also, saying “this will just be a repeat of the Lugano report” is not a credible statement, given the length of the test and the obviously heavy investment and involvement of IH.

      • Hhiram

        It makes no difference to the outside world how much time or investment IH put into this. If they hired a random guy instead of a company to do this evaluation, nobody will care. It will be perceived by the rest of the world exactly as the Lugano Report: a joke that can simply be ignored.

        I hope I am wrong and that this PhD engineer is simply a representative of a larger evaluation and certification organization. But if not, then this new report will not create any different reaction in the world than the Lugano report. Any other ideas are just wishful thinking – sorry!

        • Ged

          One should not tell the outside world what it thinks, or use too broad a brush as “nobody” or “everybody”, as then one is guaranteed to be wrong. The “outside world” is so vast, with all sorts of people, with even more sorts of interests.

    • roseland67

      Deleo,

      Whotold you that IH paid for 1/2 of the test?

      • deleo77

        Interesting, I saw Rossi post on JONP that the test was paid 50/50 by Leonardo and IH, but now I don’t see that post.

        • timycelyn

          I saw it as well

  • winebuff67

    Just liscense the tech. Why go about your own production? It makes no sense.

    • enantiomer2000

      better margins. they are just doing what apple does which is paying somebody else to build out their products. it can be highly profitable and if Rossi can successfully commercialize and scale he will become one of the richest men on the planet. Finally I will be able to afford to heat my pool in the winter.

    • Brent Buckner

      Rossi did license to IH in various territories.

      By Leonardo going about its own production in other territories, Rossi may feel that he is ensuring that the E-Cat X gets to market expeditiously (and is enjoying the challenge along the way).

      • I think winebuff67 may mean licensing the IP – i.e., allowing others to develop, manufacture and market e-cat products whilst paying royalties to Leonardo. Unfortunately there is no sign whatsoever that this may be a part of the game plan.

        • Brent Buckner

          Rossi did license IH to manufacture and market in various territories.

  • Sanjeev

    Fabio Penon, born in padova 1957, from his CV
    http://one33.robyone.net/Download.aspx?id=8118&cid=81&sid=26
    As suspected (comments below), this matches a bit too much with Rossi’s answer. I’m now mentally prepared to be underwhelmed by the report 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf
      Fabio Penon , M.Eng. (Nuclear Engineer, Product Certification Specialist).

    • Obvious

      So that would make him 59, which is a bit older than 50-55.

      • Sanjeev

        Its possible that Rossi said it roughly.

        • Obvious

          It’s possible that there are thousands of people that could fit the description.

          • Sanjeev

            Possible. Still not a big company, as many (including myself) were expecting.

          • Obvious

            We have nothing but suspicion as to who the ERV is, so considering whether the ERV is who we expected or not is a bit silly at this point.
            Maybe it is Fabio, maybe it isn’t. No way to know yet, so no point panicking yet.
            Let’s read the darn report first, then panic where necessary.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      But trying to read the CV, he doesn’t seem to be a doctor.

      • Sanjeev

        No. Only an M.Eng. But I don’t know how it works in Italy.

    • Frank Acland

      If he is the ERV, he would seem to be qualified — has worked with some big testing agencies like SGS, Bureau Veritas, RINA, Det Norske Veritas, Certiquality (if my Italian is serving me correctly)

      • Sanjeev

        His qualification is beyond doubt.
        But that’s not the point. Think from the perspective of skeptical people and investors.

      • Rheulan

        Frank, I think Peter Gluck nailed the identity of the ERV: Lee A. Swanger.

        Here is a quote from http://www.exponent.com/lee_swanger/:

        “Dr. Swanger is the Director of Exponent’s Miami, Florida, office and investigates issues related to failure analysis of materials and mechanical systems, accident reconstruction, physical and mechanical metallurgy, and thermodynamics, as well as analyzing devices and procedures with respect to patent infringement and patent validity. More specifically, his focus includes analysis of machinery dynamics and kinetics, welding and weldments, powder metallurgy, electrochemistry and corrosion, sleeve bearing design, materials testing, fatigue, and fracture. Additionally Dr. Swanger investigates equipment and process issues in applications including manufacturing facilities, fossil and nuclear power plants, transportation systems, and dry cleaning establishments. His research also includes work in the areas of internal combustion engines and compressor component design and testing, and he received a U.S. Patent for his engine bearing material and fabrication process.”

        Peter´s Gluck guess can be found at http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com.br/2016/03/mar-30-2016-lenr-how-much-more-patience.html.

        • Rheulan

          Lee A. Swanger works for Exponent, Engineering and Scientific Consulting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponent_(consulting_firm). This company seems to be a very credible ERV!

          • M

            Swanger seems like a better choice than Penon. Exponent is a major firm that I encounter in the course of my own work. We’ll just have to see.

        • M

          Agreed.

  • NCkhawk

    Is he a true PhD? Now really wondering how IH feels about the ERV if this is the guy?

    • Ged

      Once again IH has become the main key here. Hopefully they don’t stay mum for long!

  • Sanjeev

    I was assuming that the ERV was hired by the customer.
    If I were the customer, I’d do so to ensure that no monkey business is going on and pay the ERV (or consultants) a heavy sum. Its a bit strange that Rossi/IH hired him, while the customer seems to be happy with that.
    Anyway, so much hinges on this report that it really doesn’t matter who wrote the report as long as Rossi decides to launch mass production and allows public inspections/photos/videos etc etc, as he said many times, he will do. I guess it will happen now, as the report is positive.

    • Frank Acland

      I think the customer wouldn’t care too much who was the ERV, or even if there was an ERV so long as they were able to make some decent savings on their power bills.

      • Sanjeev

        Lets hope that the report mentions the name of the customer and also the cost savings. But if the report is technical then the chances of latter are slim. I don’t think the customer will come forward and report on his savings, unless there is a very specific reason.

        • BillH

          That’s why I suggested giving the customer the 1MW plant as an enticement to look on this as a prototype system, if any reliability issues still exists this is the place to get them resolved. Since the plant is basically plumbed in now it would probably cost more to move it to a new site. What’s a $4M gift between friends when the future looks so bright?

    • Barbierir

      It seems the pathoskeptics are already jumping on it. If anyone had expected that the report would put the controversies at rest, he must realize that’s not going to happen. Only a product on the shelves will do it, nothing less. Rossi was right from the beginning.

    • Tobben

      Why should the customer need ERV when he can look at his energy bill?

      • Sanjeev

        He may want to know for sure that the plant is working as per his specifications.
        And perhaps to ensure that no tempering with the meters is being done or that the clerk at the power company is not being bribed.
        I know its being paranoid, but can happen.

        • Brent Buckner

          The customer wasn’t buying the 1MW plant, the customer was buying the heat produced by the 1MW plant.

        • Frechette

          You’ve been listening to Mary Yugo too much. Frankly I want to see her eat crow.

        • Ged

          Their pocket book would certainly approve of a bribed clerk.

        • US_Citizen71

          The thing is a 1MW draw vs 166kW draw over nearly a year would be noticed by higher up than just a clerk.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Customer does not need the ERV, but Rossi and IH need the information.

      • dickyaesta

        It seems Dr. Rossi follows the DIY approach of things (from the bottom up). So certainly would not run with the best in the field, Dr. Rossi would be too afraid he, the best ERV, would run with Dr. Rossi’s invention as well, having the best friends in almost any other field as well, probably. Cautious and a bit paranoid, but that is our Dr. Rossi, I hope though at the end he will deliver.

    • clovis ray

      why so down, it is plainly stated, at least i understood,that Leo and I/H,split the cost.
      The customer could give a shti, he happy as a lark,, and i agree with Frank, the ERV
      seems extremely capable, and experienced, and to add to that it would seem that you wouldn’t have to be smart to understand, what’ the apparatus is, quite another to understand how the power is produced, inside the reactor core. it all good because everything is on the up and up, and that means don’t worry, be happy.

      • psi2u2

        Pay attention now!

    • Billy Jackson

      I think the only thing really important about the ERV is that he is qualified, and that he has a record of other evaluations done in the past. The only harm i can see is if this is his first ever evaluation.. which with the importance of what this was.. its highly unlikely that he would have been hired with no record.

    • “I was assuming that the ERV was hired by the customer.”

      The customer has no ‘skin in the game’. Whoever they are, they will have used their own instruments to measure the energy supplied, and paid an agreed price for it. Rossi/IH however need an independent report to show to investors and to potential partners, as others have said.

  • Rogers

    I think most of you are trying to read too much into the payment structure of the ERV. The target and customer for the ERV was and is IH. If IH is convinced (and they appear to be), they will build factories. Once products are available some customers will purchase those products, others won’t, taking a wait-and-see attitude. The ERV’s job is to convince IH that winning over everyone is certain, even if it might take longer than it should.

    • Brent Buckner

      I think the ERV report has multiple targets.

      The licensing deal between IH and Rossi/Leonardo may have specified that if the technology “proved out” in the ERV report then IH would owe Rossi/Leonardo a payday.

      IH and Rossi/Leonardo may want the ERV report to show potential investors.

      IH and Rossi/Leonardo may want the ERV report to show potential customers.

      IH and Rossi/Leonardo may want the ERV report to show to certifiers/regulators.

      • psi2u2

        Agreed, but Rogers still has a point that IH and other potential investors are almost certainly the primary intended audience for the report. Based on the indications we have seen, including the realignments of the business entities, Rossi’s enthusiasm and statements, it would seem that the report is probably a success in the eyes of those for whom it was primarily intended.

  • Frank Acland

    The report seems to have helped with speeding up funding:

    Frank Acland

    March 30, 2016 at 12:21 PM

    Dear Andrea,
    Could you have proceeded for the industrialization without receiving the Report?
    Many thanks,
    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi

    March 30, 2016 at 2:10 PM
    Frank Acland:
    Yes, in longer times.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Right – so the ERV’s report was for the purpose of securing the engagement of a large partner, as some have surmised. Perhaps a large manufacturer who will make everything except the ‘cores’ that Rossi’s claimed ‘robotic’ facility will produce?

      • Gerald

        As I said earlier, look at what the ABB group could mean to IH and Leonardo.

        • ABB seems a good bet.

          I worked for one of their sub-groups for two years as a contractor and found them to be innovative, flexible and open to the new – just the sort of business partner IH and Rossi need.

          • deleo77

            Yes, but my guess is that ABB is probably in it as a vendor. ABB can set up a robotic factory line for a price. Building this could be a million dollar plus account for them. I take AR’s answer today about the ERV report speeding up industrialization to mean that having the report will now open the door for someone to write the check to pay ABB to set up the robotics line. That’s their specialty.

          • Brokeeper

            I’m sure ABB has envisioned the advantages partnering with the E-Cat X developers. It may lead to the next generation of robots from dual arms to dual arms and legs (or wheels) for mobility, perhaps evolving to domestic iRobots. 🙂

          • Gerald

            Don’t forget ABB is leading in joining electricity networks, they are now thinking of making it a seperate company/devision because of bad economy in china.Their main objective is cut loses and building up their bank accounts from 2015. A realy realy loose canon shot it is from me..

          • US_Citizen71

            That could be a powerful combination of companies in the future, an LENR powered robot line. You could put it in a cargo container all set to go. Just remove transportation protection like straps, packing, void fill, etc. and begin production. Place them end to end to extend, allow side access to combine or split the line. Basically Legos for real world robotic production*

            *Batteries included

          • Michael W Wolf

            I read somewhere the ERV will allow for safety certification. I mean it would explain Rossi’s F9. Without that cert., Rossi can do nothing. I think that is what is going on.

          • Ged

            That would make the ERV part of a larger, certification organization, as expected. Similarly to SGS’s work a long while ago (though that was for safety for the 1 MW plant, which was needed before this test could be run).

          • Omega Z

            Interview With Andrea Rossi, LENR Energy Pioneer 10/06/2015= “SGS”

            In answer to Question number 8.
            “It is also imperative that the monitoring equipment provide the alarms and other information required by our safety certification company (SGS).”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-bailey/interview-with-andrea-ros_b_8248624.html

  • This seems to be a step-by-step process. The potential partner or investor will have specified the ERV and is presumably happy with the results. We have no way of knowing what the next step will require.

    • M

      Your point about a “step-by-step process” is well-taken, but this has to stop being about Rossi and a handful of his personal contacts for me to buy it. If Darden and Apco are truly engaged as reported, then we crossed that threshold awhile back and there should be no more reports from the Penon’s of the world. Again I don’t mean to pick on Mr. Penon who is surely an accomplished person in his own right. But billions of dollars are at stake (or trillions, as you say). It should be big-league players from here on out, otherwise I just don’t see how to make any sense of this. Perhaps it is all clear, if you are in the know. So I will watch and wait with the rest, and try no to let frustration color my objectivity.

      • I completely agree that at some point the whole operation must go ‘big-league’ as you put it, and it seems that this transition may be under way now. However, someone (Darden, I imagine) is playing a cautious and methodical game, and the involvement of new partners seems to be a gradual process, with ‘milestones’ being checked off in sequence until the business partner becomes locked in, largely on IH/LC’s terms.

        I also share your frustration. My head says that this is the only way to proceed with something that will change the world drastically, will generate possibly massive opposition in some quarters, and will eventually generate profits in the trillions of dollars, — but my heart says ‘for f*cks sake just bloody get on with it’…

  • Michael W Wolf

    Do you feel that way about safe hot fusion? 50 years and 100’s of billions, and still counting.

  • Ged

    “The company also is certified for battery, energy storage and compliance testing”

    Well well well. It’s a well informed guess, but it could still be any number of other organizations. Exponent fits the bill nicely, though.

    • psi2u2

      So, for those who have been expressing some skepticism or disappointment over the prospects that the ERV was written by Fabio Penon, I am curious if Swanger is more or less credible as the primary author of the document? What do people think?

      • Sanjeev

        I think this is an even more wild speculation than Penon. So I better not add to the confusion over ERV. As Observer said below, this is not the right time to panic. Its possible that the issue of ERV will be outweighed by other important evidences.

        • psi2u2

          Perhaps so, but the point of my question was to refocus an earlier discussion in which several speakers indicated their feeling that if it was Penon it would not enhance the document’s credibility (because of his too-close past associations with Rossi?).

          As for whether this is a “wild speculation,” in this post I am merely repeating a speculation offered by others. While it is at this point a speculation, one has to admit in fairness also that it is, as Bob Greenyer says above, “a good fit.”

          Time will tell the answer, right?

          • Sanjeev

            Remember, you cannot please everyone. Expect a lot of nit picking no matter who is the ERV (same for the customer).

  • Rossi told me the individual ERV is working inside/for a larger organisation.

  • psi2u2

    Bachole, I hereby confer upon you letters in the higher study of Skepticism, Epistemology, and Skeptopathology.

  • Bob Greenyer

    This is a good fit.

  • Gerald

    A lot of us got the Master degree in Bachcole comments. A few appendices on its own… 🙂

  • psi2u2

    I’m glad to hear it.

  • psi2u2

    Deflategate? Anonymous MIT professor?

  • cashmemorz

    AFAIK hot fusion at this point is beginning to look MOSTLY as a theoretical problem, not just a technical problem. Based on how our sun works. The sun is assumed to be a gas/plasma body. Latest research indicates that the sun consists of Rydberg, metallic hydrogen, with a surface. If the latter, man made hot fusion is an attempt based on baseless theory/assumption. Which is why hot fusion is taking so long and longer. LENR, though without a consensus theory, works already and is ready for market.

  • cashmemorz

    The report is about the E-CAT for which IH has rights for manufacture. So expect IH to license / manufacture E-CATs. E-CAT X are Leonardo territory so expect AR/Leonardo to make E-CAT X.

  • cashmemorz

    Your figures are all backwards or are you a paid proponent for solar. Saudis are taking a hit by selling at market price of 50-60cents a barrel. Solar is close to twice the consumer paying 10 cents a kilowatt hour =20 cents per kilowatt /solar hour.

    • kenko1

      If the ERV’s expertise is, in fact, a nuclear engineer, then the year long test was NOT to show proof of concept or some ungodly COP, but to test for dangerous radiation levels over a long period. So I doubt if we see much data on fuel savings or COP’s. They could be calculated with a week or a month’s worth of data.

      • cashmemorz

        No such need. If there was that need, the one megawatt container for the E-CAT would have had much shielding. None was ever shown in the pictures and was not needed even before the Laguno test. Radioactivity suspicions were dealt with and disposed of before the year long test. The year long test would not have been considered if radioactivity was still a viable problem

        • kenko1

          It’s not to prove it to us, but the customer. Why else would the ERV be a nuclear engineer, instead of some type of thermodynamic engineer? Lugano already showed proof of concept, longlivety and high COP along with cost savings.

          • cashmemorz

            Before Lugano, tests for radioactivity were done and shown to be non existent. No more tests or convincing of anyone was needed from then on out. The customer for the one year test would have been made aware of this in the contract for the one year test. Why test for something that was already conclusively shown to not exist. The only need for testing for radioactivity during the one year test would have been for unforeseen changes that “might” occur to the main charge. Anything unforeseen, including radioactivity could have happened during the one year test. Rossi himself attested to good health working around thousands of unshielded experiments for over a decade. But, just in case,dosimeters were worn during the one year test. Rossi stated that all readings from those dosimeters indicated only background levels.

          • kenko1

            Then why a nuclear engineer? What would his/her nuclear expertise bring to the table to validate the e-cat for the customer? Isotope analysis? Rather, a team of engineers, from various disciplines could be evaluating various aspects, one at a time. Thus saving Rossi’s mantra of a lone ERV. Soon enough, we’ll see.

          • DrD

            Because it’s a nuclear reaction, as in LENR.
            He is a phycist with a specialist background in nuclear so you can rest assured he will be “fluent” in thermodynamics and many other areas. Just like most other phycists following this.

          • Not right away, because it need investment in production capacity, but easy access reserves will last a long time. And if you suspect these reserves will be worthless in the future (15+ years) due to LENR; I would sell as much as I can today at $37.

            As for solar/wind I’m talking about building future capacity. If I know LENR exists, why would I invest anything at all in solar?

      • psi2u2

        I guess a brick factory in North Carolina. (this isn’t my original idea).

  • HHiram

    They have a history of defending shady businesses. I hope it’s not them.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18

    • psi2u2

      Well, I have to say that I agree that this doesn’t sound very nice, to say the least, HHiram. Its not who I would want to hire judging at least by that review. But I do not think you can draw any immediate and direct conclusion from it even if it is the same company.

      I think the question needs to be whether the science and the methodology of the report are sound in the eyes of those with the judgement to fairly evaluate them. That will dictate what the market does and what the outcome is, so far as I can see at this point. Don’t you agree?

      • LarryJ

        I think this report was commissioned to referee the contractual agreement between the customer and IH and to assure the investors, already waiting in the wings, that the technology warrants the massive investment needed to bring it to market. If I am correct then the ERV would have been approved by all concerned parties including the investors prior to the commencement of the test. Since none of this was designed for public consumption, the public opinion of the ERV is irrelevant.

        • psi2u2

          You’re right, of course. But you also have to include your own moral assessment of who those clients were. And on that score I don’t give them high marks based on what I read.

          This is admittedly a moralistic position. It says nothing about how good the company may be at providing services like being the ERV for this historic occasion. From that point of view they may have been the best choice in world. It all depends on what you chose to emphasize.

          That’s why I emphasized that what matters here, for us, is how credible the report is for those for whom it was primarily intended.

    • cashmemorz

      Could it be that any other similar firm would have found data that this firm did? Pointing out what may or not be negative about this firm does not preclude that any other firm would have found the same data.

      • deleo77

        And if the e-cat will make money. That is what investors will want to see before writing the big checks to begin production. How much does an e-cat cost to build and operate versus how much will someone pay for the heat that it provides? So I imagine the ERV set up a separate power meter and monitored that for a year, so he can specifically measure power in versus power out.

  • psi2u2

    Thank you for your reply. But interestingly, a vigorous critique of Swanger has already started, on this very forum!

    But I take your point about the litigation reference. So, yes, that’s a question mark for sure. But, really, I think we must remember to always look at the big picture. If this report is as positive as it sounds its going to be, then we should not fail to remember that this is by no means the first report or the first test. And at every level, the stakes have been appropriately raised for the benefit of all concerned, it would seem.

    Since, in this case, the report should also be accompanied by a statement from the customer regarding savings, the experiment has been in my opinion from the point of view of proper verification procedures (at a very general level I mean, purely as an experimental construct) been very well designed.

    This is because the report of the customer’s utility company is (isn’t it) entirely independent of the ERVs own tests and calculations. If the report is not accompanied by the energy company audit of the savings, then I think there would be a serious credibility problem. But if the report contains both of these types of evidence, then the only option for the energy barons would be to attack the credibility of the reporter and/or his company.

  • Ivan Idso

    Wasn’t it MIT that dismissed Fleshman and Pons in 1989? So maybe I question their reputation at this point…

  • US_Citizen71

    It may be more than just a technical problem. One environmental factor of a star that science has not been able to reproduce in the lab is the intense gravitational field of a star. That force might be needed to keep the reaction running and stable by keeping the reactants close together after a fusion event. There is a big difference between a bang and a continuous reaction. So far science really only has been able to produce bangs.

  • Omega Z

    IH isn’t going to do anything in a public manner until they are ready.

    Posting things on JONP and doing a News conference are 2 totally different things. The latter would greatly increase credibilty and they don’t want to go public prematurely.

    What Industrial heat IS doing is going ahead with business arrangements on multiple fronts in the background. You don’t make multi-million dollar deals with nothing in hand.

    • Slad

      link please

  • SG

    Was thinking about the report again this morning–and the odds of it being published openly. I think it will be, or at least pertinent parts or a summary will be.

    The USPTO recently granted Mr. Rossi his first patent in the U.S., but he has struggled to gain traction with some of his other pending patents. He has stated on different occasions that he has many (upwards of a 100?) patent applications pending around the world. I estimate that to be about a $1 million investment in IP. In order to protect that investment, it is very likely that the ERV report, or portions of the ERV report, will be submitted to the USPTO in support of allowance of the pending patents. The records of pending patents before the USPTO are generally open to the public. So, my thought here, is that the patent system is our friend.

    And if Mr. Rossi and IH know that they will be submitting the report to the USPTO, they know it will eventually be made public, and so there is little reason to keep the report secret. The patent system is quite good at bringing information out of secrecy and into the public domain. In this case, from darkness into LENR light.

    • Ged

      In summary, we need to keep attention on the USPTO.

      • Omega Z

        Unless the patents are kept in the dark. Read my reply to SG.

        • It wouldn’t be directly relevant to manufacture, but would be referred to when presenting a case for the safety of that particular form of LENR. As ‘ecat-X’ seems substantially different in both form and function, a safety case would need to start from scratch, with extended lab and field testing as for the earlier variety.

          Safety certification is issued on a specific design, and even minor deviation from that design requires amended certification (this can be just a paper exercise). For most larger plant items, especially those incorporating pressure vessels, burners, HV power systems etc., each individual plant manufactured must be individually checked to test all safety systems, using a check-sheet process.

          • LarryJ

            Don’t forget that this is a novel new energy source in which the US currently has a formidable lead. I am sure your comments are quite applicable for enhancements to existing technologies but if substantial delays are created by bureaucracies then the US will forfeit its lead to more pragmatic countries. I would not be surprised to see some bending of the rules in this case. This is an entirely new mega industry and who knows how many jobs in the balance. China will be quite happy to supply the world with knockoffs if given the chance.

    • Omega Z

      ->”The patent system is quite good at bringing information out of secrecy and into the public domain.”

      Not necessarily. For a additional fee, a patent can be kept in the dark -Unpublished- until you ask for it to be published.

      The patent granted to Rossi was only published for public viewing a matter of weeks before it was granted. However, having been kept in the dark, has a couple downsides. This concerns the USPTO.

      1) If say by serendipity I would devise an E-cat like Rossi’s, I could manufacture and sell them during this period of darkenss without license or royalty fees until Rossi’s patent is published. At which point, Rossi could file a cease and desist order. Rossi would have no financial recourse of any units I sold to that point.

      However, Should I ignore the cease and desist order then Rossi would have recourse and that could dependent on the court extend back to the 1st unit I sold. My only option to continue manufacture and sales would depend on obtaining a license from Rossi.

      2) While in the dark, Rossi can not extend the patent internationally. If I recall, it has to be published for 6 weeks before applying for the international IP.

      The primary reason for someone to do this is if they thought their patent would be delayed in process thus giving competitors ample time to catch up with their own tech using your IP info. Rossi’s risk for this patent paid off as it was delayed by the USPTO. So much so that they extended his patent by 609 days. His 2012 filing that would normally expire in 2032 will not expire until 2034.

      • SG

        True, you can request non-publication in the U.S., but it will *eventually* be published and the file wrapper laid open.

        And like you pointed out, you can’t request non-publication if you are filing internationally. I think most of the time, Mr. Rossi pursuing filings outside the U.S. as well.

        • Omega Z

          I believe when Rossi received word that his patent would be granted that he asked it to be revealed/published. This was in preparation to file world wide. I don’t know of a limit a patent can remain unpublished. But as long as it;s dark, anyone can make use of the technology in the manor described. So there is no benefit in the long term.

          • SG

            If you are going to file internationally, you must do so within one year. So for any case that Mr. Rossi pursues outside of the U.S., it will be published sooner rather than later. And all other applications will be published *eventually*–just a matter of time (and it can be years).

          • Eyedoc

            slapped by whom ?

          • SG

            Most patent offices (including in the U.S.) run patent applications by multiple government agencies including the military, any one of which can request a secrecy order.

  • Frank Acland

    This is why the customer might not want to be identified in the report.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Well, this just shows how having already built something that you know works and how it performs, then it becomes rather easy to build a new design based on that core.

    When Apple comes out with a new iPhone, they are not starting from scratch, but have the previous designs and models to work from.

    So the performance, the fuel formula, the basic “core” of the reactor etc. of the ecat-x is very similar to the ecat.

    So we only talking about “tweaks” on the original ecat.

    So how the ecat-x will perform, how the fuel will last etc. can all be derived and determined from the existing design because there not a whole lot of difference. The only real change is addition of production of electricity.

    In other words, the basic formula and how the ecat and ecat-x works are much the same.

    That is the advantage of not starting from scratch. Rossi knew within 1-2 weeks last year of TURNING ON the plant what kind of COP they were seeing. I believe some months were spent “tweaking” the SSM mode, but Rossi NEVER needed an ERV report.

    The ERV test was to simply give some arm’s length credibility.

    For Rossi, the yearlong test gave solid numbers as to how long the fuel charges last, how pumps last, how fittings last etc. So the yearlong test was not just for the ERV report.

    The ERV report is really for IH/Rossi to give some numbers for investors etc.

    It also shows that Rossi been on purpose “sandbagging” the performance of the e-cat by constantly saying F9.

    Rossi knew the performance since day 1 last year.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Albert D. Kallal

    An interesting aspect of this year long test is that Rossi knew the performance of the plant within 1
    week of turning it on. I do believe some time was spent tweaking the SSM mode,
    but at the end of the day, the performance of the plant was known by Rossi ONE
    YEAR ago!

    This shows much that Rossi’s been downplaying the technology he been sitting on.

    Rossi does not need the ERV report to tell him how his plant is doing. The ERV is simply “somewhat” of a arms length report that IH and Rossi require for selling the product to investors (note I say investors – NOT customers!!).
    The ERV report really not required for selling to customers – – who would not want to purchase such a device? Simple give a “money back” deal – customers will not look at the ERV report – they will look at the sales brochure – and there will be line ups around the block for these ecats – and huge waiting lists!

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Brent Buckner

      I think industrial customers would want such a report to exist before making their production lines reliant on new technology.

  • Slad

    “Rossi has now stated that he has no intention of selling this particular product”.

    Link please…

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Rossi has not posted on JoNP for a while. Is he sitting in the airplane to Sweden?

  • Omega Z

    There’s many references to Industrial heats statement not to believe anything that doesn’t come from them or 3rd party etc…

    Two issues arose that likely brought about that statement..
    The rumors of an executive summary of the ERV report floating about.
    Krivit emailing IH whether they still supported Rossi. Not getting a response from Industrial heat, Krivit did a hit piece on Rossi and more or less proclaiming Industrial heat and Rossi had parted ways.
    —————————————————————————
    Industrial heat then sent out a statement stating not to believe anything they hear on the blogs that doesn’t come from them or those who represent them such as 3rd parties engaged by them.
    —————————————————————————
    Krivit then does another hit piece on Rossi using this statement published hear at ECW more or less as proof there has been a split between Industrial heat and Rossi feeding the speculation.

    Industrial heat said not to believe if it did not come from them or associated parties. Has Industrial heat said anything about a split between them and Rossi. NO. Then don’t believe Krivit FUD
    —————————————————————————
    Mats Lewan said there is some disagreements behind the scenes. Not a split

    Ever been in a business partnership? What more can I say. Occasional disagreements in partnerships are the norm. Been there, Done that many times.

    What are the disagreements and between whom. Is it Rossi opposed to Darden? Or Rossi & Darden opposed to other parties within the consortium?

    What do those disagreements entail. I see 3 possibilties.

    1) Disagreement as to whether the technology is ready for market.
    2) The issue could be the path to market. EVERYONE has an Opinion as to the path.
    3) Timing. Some among the investment funds(Pensions included) may want to delay. WHY?

    Look at those Investment funds that no doubt have investments in the current energy segment. Energy stock value is way down. They may prefer to delay a year or so giving those stocks time to rebound and then shift those investments to E-cat manufacturing Etc..

    This is after all where the investment money will come from. Selling other holdings and rolling that money over to other investments-> LENR product. Consider it is hard to explain to pensioners why you sold at such a loss. No doubt long term they would benefit, but people tend to think Today. Government may intervene and Heads may roll.

    • Every venture capitalist reaches a stage with new technology that they call the “shoot the inventor” stage. It’s a deploable common characteristic of VC’s especially those of the ‘vulture’ as opposed to ‘venture’ capital nature. Rossi and Darden are in a classic ‘inventor’ ‘investor’ relationship, nothing surprising going on. Most likely they will work everything out amicably.

      • Omega Z

        I agree, Darden seems to be more old school VC. He’s in it for the long haul. Not instant gratification.

    • Timar

      I think the most plausible explanation for a conflict between IH and Rossi is the fact that IH does not exclusively found Rossi but also many of his LENR competitors. Given all we know about Rossi’s personality, it seems safe to assume that he was not amused when he found out about IH’s other LENR commitments (maybe he wasn’t fully aware of them before and only realized it from the interview Darden gave at the ICCF-19. That was about the time he ceased to mention IH on his blog) and considered their investment strategy illoyal towards Leonardo Cooperation.

      • psi2u2

        To that one might add the discrepancy surrounding path to market over industrial versus home units. From the beginning Rossi seemed determined to democratize the revolution by going directly to the consumers. However, as laudable as this is, we all know that from a practical point of view, it may be more strategic to allow industrial applications first so that the big boys get a cut of the action. My hunch is that Rossi is still dedicated to a more radical approach to market and Darden et al are more interested in promoting an industrial level e-cat. I say we need them both, so to me there’s no right and wrong here, just different emphases that both deserve to be pursued.

        • Timar

          Industrial applications first is also the only way to handle Nuclear authorities in developed countries. Rossi could never sell Home Units in the US or EU because no government agency in any Western country would allow Nuclear energy reactors of unknown physics to be legally sold to consumers until extensive experience has been generated in industrial and research applications. Out of reasonable safety concerns for sure, but of course also reinforced beyond reason by the lobby influence Big Energy has on our governments.

          • SG

            Yes, but the key is, as you say, the West. The East will force the West to adapt quickly, to realize the safety of the technology (no radioactive fuel and no radioactive waste). The continued prosperity of the West will depend on it being nimble in this respect.

          • US_Citizen71

            I read this opinion often that the nuclear authorities are going to prevent sales. If their Geiger counters do not click then on what grounds will they be able to take control? I am not trying to be combative I am just curious as to why and how someone arrives at this opinion.

          • cashmemorz

            Many ways to be negative where “nuclear” must be the underlying process. “Maybe” a new kind of radioactivity, or a process not seen but exists anyway. All this requires a proven theory. Until such theory is proven to mainstream science it may hold up acceptance via negative publicity.

          • US_Citizen71

            Bad PR is one thing but to take control the authorities must show a valid verifiable reason. Without radiation the NRC doesn’t have jurisdiction. I have never really received an adequate answer to this question I think it is just born out of fear of TPTB.

          • clovis ray

            I agree, US, but I forget sometimes, about the newbie’s,, and I try and be more tolerant, it just the ones, that have an agenda that get to me sometimes.

          • Timar

            Solely on the ground that it is a nuclear process which theoretically could run out of control in a way that produces radiation (see Levi’s geiger counter measurements during the startup of Rossi’s earlier reactor demonstration, see MFMP’s measurements if you think that such concerns are unfounded). The only way to guarantee that there are no possible dangerous runaway events it either to have a sound theory of the underlying process allowing to deduct that it is safe or to have millions of hours of operation (in controlled and contained industrial and/or research application), including stress-test scenarios, allowing to inductively prove its safety.

            Any government agency who would not hold back E-Cat-type reactors from the from consumer market until safety has been established on the given grounds (the 1-year report, if properly executed, would go a long way towards that goal – certainly one of the major reasons why it has been conducted) would act irresonsibly and neglect its institutial duty. I strongly suspect it will be the other way around, though: bureaucratic inertia, lobby influences and the conservative attitude of the nuclear scientist holding positions in the agencies will go hand in hand to delay the market introduction way beyond prudence.

      • Omega Z

        We have been aware of Dardens prior envolvments since his 1st acknowledgemnt of obtaining manufacturing and marketing rights of Rossi’s technology in 2013. LENR is a small community. Everyone knows whats going on. Who’s funding who.

        Rossi’s tech is the only major Darden investment. He has provided smaller sums in Brillouin among others who have many VC’s involved. Rossi has said “THEY” have tested many competitors devices, but only a few shown any excess energy.

        My View is, Darden has used Rossi’s expertise to determine where to invest. Have you ever thought that Maybe Rossi is a part of Industrial heats members as part of his deal.

        I Once took on a 50/50 business partner. I also took a 40% stake in his business. His was more lucrative thus the 40%. There is sound reasoning for this. Both parties work to make both businesses succesful. Both have something to lose in both businesses.

    • Alan Smith

      Krivit is a malevolent idiot and a trouble maker. His latest article is based on nothing more than Inference and the single fact that JT Vaughn didn’t answer his email. Believe me, I wouldn’t answer an email from the little creep either.

  • Karl Venter

    Has somebody told IH Rossi and APCO not to announce anything tomorrow please please please

    • psi2u2

      hopefully they figured that part out.

    • Timar

      Why not? This way they could keep their promise to publicly release the report and at the same time maintain their current low profile.

      A quite ingenious move, if you think about it 😉

    • Bob Tivnan

      It would certainly be a strange choice that would create confusion for many people, but it would be in keeping with the philosophy that public perception is not an essential ingredient to success. Spectators would make a big deal about the timing. Real players don’t play games like this.

      • Hi all

        One danger for IH of keeping the secret too long; is members of the team insider trading. Competitors are bound to call in the SEC.

        Any long lag increases that risk.

        For the sake of their investors I think IH will agree to announce with Rossi but ask him to do so with input from APCO Worldwide in the form of a joint press release stating they will be making a press conference in June.

        The press may or may not run with it from the press release, in fact I would expect a mixture of responses.

        This will give the markets time to settle.

        There will be a time of anticipation and adjustment that APCO can manipulate and manage to best effect, that is after all their speciality.

        And then with IH and other licensees standing up with Rossi and let him make the announcement with pats on the back and nods to the great man, all of us need our Ego stroking some times and in this case it may well be well deserved. Everyone congratulating every one else any rifts will be healed, Joy to the world etc.

        Elections and wars pushed off the front pages for a few months and time for the for the world to come to terms with the changes and reflect on where we will all be.

        Kind Regards walker

        • Brent Buckner

          I don’t think there’s any risk of anything that could qualify as insider trading with the possible exception of trading in shares of WPCT. (IH is not a public company; “Insider trading is the trading of a public company’s stock or other securities (such as bonds or stock options) by individuals with access to nonpublic information about the company.” per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading )

          • Obvious

            I think trading in any company, public or private, based on privileged information would be considered insider trading.
            The board would simply declare a trading hiatus for all employees, directors, etc. if the circumstances suggest that someone might even appear to be trading using privileged information before news is disseminated to all relevant parties, whoever they might be.

          • Brent Buckner

            Sure enough, a little looking shows that the SEC uses your more expansive definition. (e.g. http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e24dc4ab-2a77-43d9-8a78-9ea46eca1aca )

          • Obvious

            Excerpt from trading blackout notice (Company redacted):

            …As such, staff may be in possession of material information not yet disclosed from
            time to time, and as this program progresses. Therefore, we are implementing a
            trading “blackout” regarding XXXXXXXX securities. We request that all staff and
            related parties refrain from any trading in XXXXXXX shares until further notice.

          • Omega Z

            A lot of gray area.

            As the inventor of LENR, I sold all my energy stocks. ???

            A Vast number of Business people and Governments are following whats going on. It’s public knowledge. Not their fault MSM does a poor job of reporting it.

            I think the SEC would have problems proving insider trading.
            It would be easier to prove a lack of interest by others.

          • Obvious

            True insiders are defined (by company position or share % owned), and must register their transactions. Staff with small positions are harder to track, but if there is a complaint, these trades can be examined, since these records will be available for usually 7 years. There is a bit of grey area regarding general impressions of an event that may be significant. Using knowledge of numerical evidence like lab reports or specific measurements of something is much more provable and possibly actionable.
            See the portion of a blackout notice, below.

          • Hi all

            In reply to Brent Buckner

            We do not know full nature of interrelationships of investors and there their other investments. Much is hidden. It all gets complicated and messy and then the lawyers get called in. Pretty soon the litigation is eating away at time and investments, the kind of thing that worries any investor.

            Kind Regards walker

      • Omega Z

        “Real players don’t play games like this.”

        This could be the exception. But I don’t expect this to be revealed for a while yet.

  • The absence of high energy neutrons/gamma is one of the main reasons the scientific community doesn’t believe LENR to be possible. And this is also one of the challenges when trying to design a theory that explains the process.

  • Gerard McEk

    How is the report going to be presented?:
    1a. In public, but not in great detail,
    1aa: What details: ERV company & man’s name, average COP, Total output energy, output temperature, up and down times partially, total run period, customer name
    1b. To investors
    1ba: What details: in full detail, if wanted and serious.

    2a. By IH and AR
    2b. Just by IH
    2c. Just by AR

    3a. Press conference
    3b. To LENR sites
    3c. Both
    Where? In Raleigh

    Can we gamble on this?
    I would say that 1a; 1aa; 1b; 1ba; 2a; 3c and Raleigh all apply

    • Frank Acland

      I would guess to begin with, 1a, 1ba, 2c, 3b
      Not sure what details will be releasd in 1aa

    • BillH

      I’d like to see a daily-weekly-monthly breakdown of total thermal output generated and a COP as a running average. You can then give a % cost saving instead of actually $$$ which might be more acceptable from a customers point of view. Ideally though the customer would say they saved so many hundred thousand dollars over the duration of the test.

      Based on these figures, and using the actual cost of building, installation, running and staffing, IH should then be able to tell for how long the plant would need to run at current efficiency in order for a customer to reach break even. From previous COP reported I’d expect this to be somewhere between 18 months and 2 years, give an initial cost to the customer of $1.5M, minimal refuelling costs, but excluding staffing requirements.

      At minimum IH and the ERV should present the report in a formal press conference, ideally the customer would also be there, this would present maximal confidence in the report. AR would only need to be there to answer future development questions, and could just as easily be said to be working on the Ecat X.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Our Facebook exclusive confirms that the ERV will be delivered.

        https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/

        • Skip

          Excellent!
          Now to order my copy. I wonder if the phone number I have still worx…

      • US_Citizen71

        Rossi delayed it for them by adding on to the suit, they have until June 6 now.

    • LuFong

      The customer may want to disclose their name for publicity either for being green or just for publicity sakes. Could be a big selling point. Or the customer may want to make a statement of sorts regarding the environment and their commitment to it.

      But also of course the customer may not want the attention right now. At some point the customer’s name will come out though just not right now.

      • GreenWin`

        What are the odds of the Climate Gang endorsing LENR after a successful report?? Next to nil since that would mean clean abundant energy for billions of poor and suffering the Gang want to keep in the dark, less they brighten their Back Yard. `

        • psi2u2

          As a former gang member, I disagree. I think it will divide the climate movement and a lot of people will come on board because they see it as the solution.

          • bachcole

            Yours is a beautiful mind.

          • psi2u2

            Thanks. Quite a number of my friends from a former lifetime, whom I desire to continue friendship with, have difficulty seeing it that way.

          • as a former cheerleader of the gang, I share your view.
            I already see many enthusiastic greens supporting LENR solution.

            I also see many deep radicalist who are afraid of a solution, but as usual the common people will prefer a religion that gives comfort and security, than one pushing pain and scarcity.

            Fear works very well to install a dictatorship and establish a religion, but LENR removes the fear.

          • bachcole

            Although your comments are getting perilously close to true spirituality, still what you say is right on. Fear is a bitch and a tool.

  • BillH

    Not a bad idea, plenty of steam needed in paper production, I wonder if Google have a historical view of this plant…

  • bkrharold

    Just think how many celebrations you have missed already since 2011. You could start having fun today if you choose. Best wishes to you Gunnar

  • Paper mills would be near the top of the ‘probables’ list, especially ones that recycle paper waste, and make a point about their green credentials. A 30 foot blue container positioned near to what could be a boiler house and a drying shed is always interesting!

    http://www.atlaspapermills.com

    • TR

      If I were to guess…. The second unit would be a trailer. It might be an air conditioned space containing a couple of tables and chairs with computer monitoring equipment. It might also contain a small workshop/workspace as well as storage in the back for tools, miscellaneous equipment and spare parts.

  • LuFong

    Two very interesting comments from Rossi today:

    ” Leonardo Corporation is the owner of all the IP related to the E-Cat
    and we of Leonardo Corporation decide independently our strategy,
    depending only on the results we achieve with our R&D, that is on
    course in laboratories independent from all our Licensees. Obviously, we
    are delighted to listen and hold in due consideration all the
    suggestion our Licensees give us.”

    And in response to a request for an updated list of licensees:

    “We’ll do soon, after all changes have been made.”

    Quite a number of people (not me) have interpreted IH’s recent email as indicating that they are backing away from Rossi, some going as far as saying that the relationship has been terminated.

    I hope none of this is the case because at this point I value IH’s statements and actions above all else but this does make for interesting musings while we wait for information from the ERV report.

    • Hi all

      Hmm negotiating positions about release of the ERV?

      Kind Regards walker

      • LuFong

        Yes it appears to me that IH and Rossi have differences of opinions of what will or should be released. We shall see.

    • Ged

      Probably this is a response to the whole Green stuff in Australia. Don’t forget everything Rossi recently talked about in regards to IH and its territories. I don’t think there are any issues with IH.

      However, people like Green claiming falsely to sell E-cats (again) are a serious problem, and this would be a good backlash against him.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      With his first answer Rossi referred to a possible E-Cat X/Q test in Europe. The question was if IH would have any influence on this test or the presentation of the results. Since they are not the holder of the European license, I think that the statement is not surprising. One could ask in what way HydroFusion might be involved in this project, though.

      • Ged

        That’s a much better and clear point. Thanks, Andreas.

      • LuFong

        It’s true his response was about IH’s influence on the E-Cat X/Q test in Europe. But in many previous responses Rossi has only mentioned how harmonious his relationship is with IH. This response is a shift from that posture (IMO) and may be significant. Rossi has gone from Chief Scientist of IH etc to IH being just a licensee. This comment further reflects that shift.

        • Ged

          Don’t see the forest for the epileptic trees.

          We already know IH isn’t the boss of the e-cat x. This adds nothing new, just the same extention of the same.

          • LuFong

            Rossi’s answers are forever changing and I find that questions posed to Rossi which he denies end up having some element of truth. So what you consider ‘epileptic trees’ I think might be harbingers of things to come.

          • Ged

            If what is denied is taken as truth rather than the intent, then you can selectively construct Any narrative you want to fulfill your bias. So yes, the definition of epileptic trees.

          • radvar

            Nothing but heartbreak expecting young’uns to follow in our footsteps. I know this first hand. They are their own selves from the day they are born, and they absorbed what we demonstrated for better or worse. Best we can do at this point, I figure, is model compassion. Anything else they might pickup is just luck.

      • Gerard McEk

        It could well be that AR and IH have different opinions of how the E-cat should be put on the market. IH may be limited to what the investors in IH demand. AR wants to put it on the market ‘massively’.
        The same counts for the publication of the results. I expect AR wanting to publish all relevant data (not too many details), whereas IH may want to delay the publication to avoid the disturbance of the energy market (again demanded by the investors).

        AR/Leonardo Corp will rely on the capital investment of IH to erect factories, or maybe not when AR has found other investors in Leonardo Corp. (Maybe the Saudies or Bill Gates?)

    • BillH

      I found IH’s statement was rather bland, and I think too much was read into it by commentators. It was at least a tentative step into the spotlight but they will have to step up their game for what is to come.

      • LuFong

        I agree, the email was written in a way that could cover any scenario. The next few months will be telling and things could go any which way. I realize that all of this is just conjecture but what else can we do while we are patiently waiting to be spoon fed vague gobbledygook form Rossi and IH? I think actions speak louder than words here.

  • Most relevant details to this chatter about Rossi and his buds is found if you play the Beatles White Album backward… the bit from time 36:04 – 30:37 reveals all 🙂

    • Gerrit

      oil is dead ?

      • DrD

        AR inists it isn’t nor will it be. I’m a bit puzzled.

        • Bob Greenyer

          IF the E-Cat works – it could be used to produce synthetic oil with a net neutral carbon output – this would allow very large plants to 24/7 produce usable liquid fuels that would mean the old rolling stock could keep running as it is transitioned – also for jets.

    • Mats002

      I think AR is rather going Twisted Sister ‘I wanna rock’ backwards from 00:03 to 00:00

    • cashmemorz

      The movie “Occupied” Is close to the scenarios talked about above.

  • BillH

    When you start giving out exclusive licenses to geographical areas around the World you are bound to lose some degree of control. IP is fine but if you don’t have a market to sell into you are pretty much hamstrung. It’s more encouraging that there doesn’t appear to be a split between AR and IH. If however AR were to attempt an E-Cat X release in Europe I don’t see IH being very happy about it.
    Remember, the major breakthrough in E-Cat X development took place during the 1 year test, financed by IH.

    • Frank Acland

      If Leonardo starts out with a successful plant in Sweden, it would raise the profile of the technology and presumably be good for business around the world, including for IH. It could serve as free publicity for IH.

    • deleo77

      Beyond that, it’s about who controls the money. Cherokee and Woodford didn’t invest in Leonardo, they invested in IH. I believe IH is a company that has the U.S. licensing rights for the e-cat, and it also incubating other LENR efforts.

      So who decides to invest millions in the commercialization of the e-cat? It is pretty much in the hands of Darden and IH’s board at this point. It could be in Rossi’s hands, but that would require him to do a specific capital raise for Leonardo and put a board in place that he controlled. But to my knowledge nothing like this has happened yet. IH is the one with the money, not Leonardo. If ABB needs several million dollars to build a robotics line then Rossi at this point will have to go to Darden for that. Darden would potentially give it to him if he liked what he saw in the ERV report and believed that IH will make $ selling the e-cat plant in the U.S. So the money will tell the story.

  • psi2u2

    The nice thing to me is that if LENR pans out, as it looks like it is going to, the whole CO2 issue is going to fade into insignificance in the not-too-distant future. Those who continue to oppose LENR from a misguided commitment to past technologies or future doomsday scenarios will gradually fade into insignificance or, in the case of the very best renewable technologies, continue to play a role, along with LENR, in bringing us to a more ecologically sound future. That, anyway, is the optimistic scenario we can hope for.

  • LuFong

    What is Leonardo Corp? Who’s on the board? How many employees? Who owns Leonardo Corp? What is the nature of the license agreements that Leonardo has made? The only the thing we know is LEONARDO CORP. This doesn’t tell us anything really.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Swedish energy and engineering majors to hold joint press conference about “a future fossil-free Sweden” early next week.

    On our FB

    https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/

    • I saw this. I doubt this has anything to do with LENR. Theres a strong commitment in Sweden to aim for a fossil free society, and business that want to be politically correct have good reasons to find anything that goes in that direction. Just need to decrease CO2 a little in some way. I would be very surprised if large Swedish corporations would stick their neck out and propose something regarding LENR, a part from the aspect that I would have expected to know something about it…

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes, it has been a goal for a number of years – it does mean they would be more receptive to real alternatives should they be made available.

    • Since we’ve been burning coal to make steel för 3000+ years it’s kind of innovative to swap it for hydrogen though. Sort of in line with LENR anyway since the need for electricity will go up in the TW range in Sweden.

  • Veblin

    Some of the Domains of Cherokee/Industrial Heat.

    Trista Balmer 111 E Hargett St Suite 300 Raleigh North Carolina 27601 +1.9197434609 [email protected]
    industrialheat.com

    Wendy Carter Cherokee 111 E Hargett St Suite 300 Raleigh North Carolina 27601 +1.9197432537 [email protected]
    industrialheat.co
    industrialheat.info
    industrialheat.net
    industrialheat.org
    industrialheat.us
    lightenergy.co
    lightenergy.biz
    lightenergy.info
    lightpower.co
    lightpower.biz
    lightpower.us

    Amy Biggers Cherokee 111 E Hargett St Suite 300 Raleigh North Carolina 27601 +1.9197432500 [email protected]
    luxenergy.co
    luxenergy.us
    luxenergyltd.co

    Steven Hartanto 301 Fayetteville St Unit 3107 Raleigh North Carolina 27601 +1.6265100724
    [email protected]
    lightenergy.org

    testorenergy.biz
    testorenergy.co
    testorenergy.com
    testorenergy.info
    testorenergy.net
    testorenergy.org
    testorenergy.us

    Jim Van Eerden Magnalia 13 Magnalia Forest Stokesdale North Carolina 27357 +1.3366163000
    [email protected]
    luxenergy.space

    • Ged

      Testor? What what?

      • Veblin

        I don’t know what that is. With some of these names you have to wonder if they are also investing in Brilliant Light Power.

        • Ged

          Lightenergy definitely seems to hint at that.

          Only thing I can think of about Testor is it sounds like Nanor, the little mini LENR device from MIT. Otherwise, it is one bizarre name, for my limited lexicon.

        • Ged

          Hm, interesting with finding the definition of Testor. Witness energy? Definitely a unique name.

    • Veblin
      • cashmemorz

        That’s better…

    • cashmemorz

      All of the links you provide go “nowhere”, contrary to that is as implied by your statements. Why you do this? “FUD”?

      • Veblin

        Industrial Heat has no active web sites right now but we have seen that they are being prepared. luxenergy.space was online till it was found. industrialheat.co has previously redirected to a PR statement.

    • No european domains? – .co.uk, .uk, .se, .eu, .fr .de etc. I’d better go grab them…

      • Veblin

        No European domains because that is not their territory.

        • True – put it down to advancing senility. Anyone found any Leonardo-linked new domains yet for their ‘territories’? If they’re not busily doing the same thing it would be a little strange.

          • It would have been better to ask if COP was above 15.0 😉

            As we heard rumors about COPs between 20 and 80.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes, 1.5 would not yet be interesting from an economic point of view. But imagine the media turmoil if a hot fusion reactor had reached that mark.

          • DrD

            He had already confirmed it was at least 6 from the report..

          • wpj

            6 was minimum according to the contract; seeing as the client was previously using gas, then it would have to be at this rate just to be slightly above break even.

          • DrD

            It was?. Apart from that he was asked by Hank and answered “yes” but obviously he can’t give a higher value till the reports released.

            Hank Mills
            March 29, 2016 at 6:23 PM
            Dear Andrea,
            Is it safe to assume you would not be “very” pleased -beyond simply being satisfied – with the results of any test of an E-Cat product if even a miniscule amount of radiation (beyond background) had been detected outside of the reactors, a detectable level of unstable decaying transmutation products had been found during analysis of the ash,

            or the COP was below the long term goal of 6?

            Sincerely,
            Hank Mills

            Andrea Rossi
            March 29, 2016 at 10:03 PM
            Hank Mills:

            Yes.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

          • wpj

            …………It’s hard to interpret exactly what Rossi means by ‘Very, very’ extended self-sustain mode periods, but it sounds quite emphatic, and suggests a fairly dramatic improvement in COP. I would guess that since the early guaranteed COP Rossi talked about in the early days of the E-Cat was 6, that they could be getting double that, or even more.

            From the mega thread on this topic

          • DrD

            Indeed. Well the “official” rumour is 20 to 80. We all just can’t wait to know for sure.

          • wpj

            I’m sure that the 21 of Peter Gluck is the correct one.

            He appears to have it all off pat:
            – rumours of a leaked report on the web
            – COP of 21 with consumption “just below 44,000”
            – Name of the probable person in charge of validation.

            Yes, he has backtracked that 21 was a wishful guess but I still believe that he knows a lot more than he wants to let on.

          • DrD

            Personally, YES, I agree. i am going to a bit surprised if it isn’t in that range given by Peter. i’ll still be happy if it’s only >6.

          • wpj
  • LION

    Hi Frank, have you ever seen this before????? – http://www.green-camp.uk/blog/ecat

    It is the first time I have.

    • timycelyn

      Is that a scam?

  • artefact

    “Some employees”: If I would do that I would not use my company mail address.

  • LION

    Interesting NEWS,–http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3519536/Saudi-Arabia-planning-end-oil-age-creating-2-TRILLION-investment-fund-big-buy-Google-Apple-Microsoft.html

    • Manuel Cruz

      That looks like an april fools joke

      • pg

        it s not

        • Anthony Richards

          No, it’s in all the papers

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sell the prospect of its value while you can!

          • psi2u2

            Yep. I think you got that just right Bob.

          • pg

            The Aramco IPO is one of the best LENR/renewables endorsements. You only sell the most valuable company in history when you know in ten years it will be as worth as whale oil.

          • psi2u2

            Sure seems so, huh? And to have this happen when we are all sitting here at the edges of our seats waiting to see if Tom Darden lets a crumb drop from the report — and THIS happens? Hello. I sense deep rumbles in the world of finance.

    • Bob Tivnan

      Wow, this is big news. I don’t think the Saudis are doing this for altruistic reasons. The question is, what’s going to replace oil? I bet they have been tipped off that Rossi is the real deal.

      • psi2u2

        Ya. This look very f’ing BIG. Dare we note the time and date stamp on that article.

    • Zephir

      The funny thing is, Norway has already seven trillions dollars in its petrol fund collected. The Saudis just managed to spend their oil dollars for food, expensive cars and camel races.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway

      • Omega Z

        That is 800 Billion$ in USD. The Saudi’s have a similar fund around 600 Billion$ but these fluctuate all the time dependent on what these funds are invested in.

        The Saudi fund has been higher in value then Norway’s in the past,(Near 1 Trillion$) however, a large portion of their funds was in Fossil energy investments around the world.(Mostly in Oil/N-Gas) Thus the fund devalued showing these numbers are meaningless. Trash the stock market. Trash the funds.

    • Omega Z

      This has been an ongoing process for many years. The Saudi’s are well aware that their Oil reserves are finite. Some may have noticed the international communities harsh statements toward Middle East countries kicking out foreign workers making room for their own people to take on the jobs.

  • Slad

    Rossi has amended his comment on the 29th about “10 days”…

    • LuFong

      Andrea Rossi

      March 29, 2016 at 4:12 PM

      Gregha:

      Yes, I will publish it as soon as there will be an agreement between the parties.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R

      • Slad

        Peter Metz:
        I meant within tens of days.
        Warm Regards
        A.R.

        • LuFong

          I know but he changed the original post too.

  • timycelyn

    Rossi has posted a clear description on JONP of what his/their priorities are for the ERV report. He (sadly) makes it clear that keeping his supporters happy and having a PR event of some sort seem to be way down the priority list.

    OTOH he does make very clear what the ERV report is to be used for, and holds out some hope for a synopsis.

    “Peter Gluck:
    Thank you for your attention.
    Our decisions do not depend from the vane rants of our enemies, whose importance for our development is, as it has always been, equal to zero.
    Whatever we do, they will always say stupidities. Besides, at this point what counts is not the discussion mumbojumbo- tango, but the massive production of the E-Cats; the report, in essence, is more important for us, for the investments decisions and the strategy of production, than for the public, who needs products, not papers.
    This having been said, I am sorry to be necessarily bound to answer you that the publication of the report will be made only after an agreement between the involved parties. About the synopsis, that is easier and will be published. I am not independent, because I depend on the contracts I have signed and the related NDA. The NDA says that I cannot give data, does not make a jerarchy of confidentiality or a distinction between what I can say and what I cannot. The breach of the NDA can have consequences.
    Again, you are too intelligent not to understand it. Nonetheless, I sympathize with your curiosity and passion on the topic.
    Warm”

    • Mats002

      If this holds then the only sign for us outsiders is if IH/Darden make a visible move into production and/or sales. I rule out any ‘Rossi says’ as confirmation.

      Mats Lewan will have a really tough decision for the conference. If I was him I would need at least some confirmation from IH/Darden to go forward with the conference.

      I wonder what signal would be sent if Lewan NOT go on with the conference because of lack of validation from any other part than AR.

      Is it in IH/Darden’s interest to send a signal of doubt or a signal of confidence in LENR+?

      Their actions or lack thereof will tell.

      • timycelyn

        You’re right. This could be a tough call for Mats.

        Of course,
        if the Synopsis from the actual report is published and can be shown as such (I.e. avoiding Rossi says) : Score 1.
        If the synopsis is published and the ERV & Co is identified: Score 3
        If Synopsis + ERV + Customer identified: score 5

        I’d argue that score three and above Mats has a green. But score 1 I ain’t quite so sure about.

        • Mats002

          Yes, and the name of the ERV&Co can be published only if IH/Darden agree to.

          So Mats need IH/Darden’s support to go forward with the conference.

          I wonder how Mats think about this situation?

    • Piero

      probably this is not of any importance, but I am pretty sure this is not Rossi’s english (in spite of some significant recent improvement). As a minimum some native english-speaking has adjusted his original text.

    • Hi all

      Pretty sure my thoughts that Rossi was threatening to release the report before IH were ready as a negotiating stance IMHO is correct. Rossi has probably achieved a better deal with IH.

      So now I think having paid Rossi a higher share IH are in the driving seat on release of data. If people want to get the Data then it is to IH they have to look.

      My bet is still an October surprise, the company doing the PR is APCO worldwide, consider who else they do PR for.

      Though an Abstract in June is I think likely as I still think IH are having to be careful none of their investors and staff are insider trading.

      Kind Regards walker

  • malkom700

    Today we do not know what the relationship between the IH and Leonardo Corporation. It is probably the Leonardo Corporation bought the original version of the E-Cat, not the upgraded version. This can greatly delay the publication of the report.

  • Hi all

    Something I wrote a few comments down.
    “…So now I think having paid Rossi a higher share IH are in the driving seat on release of data. If people want to get the Data then it is to IH they have to look…”

    I have always said: look at what they do, not what they say.

    So now it is time to start investigating.

    We already know about Luxenergy.

    There will be others and increases in their activities. My reference to insider trading, no matter what the APCO and IH warn, shell companies will proliferate moving capital around, this will leave tracks. Unexpected sales of assets. Investments in industries that are energy dependent etc. Factories to be built, all will leave breadcrumbs. Trying to hide it will be like fighting with one hand tied behind their back. The Russians will try to take advantage. China while doing a deal will plot its own course as well.

    There will be market movements, they will be detectable, some will try to camouflage them.

    I wonder what the effect of LENR will be on say the Steel Industry?

    IH’s problems with the threat of insider trading by staff and investors will be a constant haunt to them. This along with the clamour from their investors will push them to do the “Synopsis” early on.

    Kind Regards walker

  • Gerard McEk

    #5: Maybe we should ask AR in sequence with 0.1 increase about the COP. Interesting to see when the NDA comes into question. 😉

    • Frank Acland

      Someone asked him if it was greater than 15 and he said he could not answer in the positive or negative.

      • giovanniontheweb

        confirming cop bigger than 1.5 before any public worldwide declaration might work against IH

    • DrD

      I believe he only said “yes” to 6 because he had already been giving 6 as a capabilty, long ago. I was a little surprised he acknowledge it in connection with the ERV though. You can be sure he won’t give an answer to 6.1.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yeah, I think you may be right DrD.

  • Gerard McEk

    QuarkX produces THRUST? Maybe in combination with the jet?
    Giovanni
    April 4, 2016 at 3:07 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    has your ecat-q ever produced (apart from heath, electricity and light) some kind of THRUST?
    Best regards
    Giovanni

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    April 4, 2016 at 5:57 AM
    Giovanni:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Now if it can also teleport this would undoubtedly the most useful device ever in the history and future of mankind.

      However I’m doubting that a quarkx can produce thrust. Maybe when it explodes. It’s probably just Rossi Speak.

      • GiveADogABone

        Try a web-search on ‘gas turbine fuel cell’ e.g. :-
        https://www.netl.doe.gov/File%20Library/Research/Coal/energy%20systems/turbines/handbook/1-4.pdf
        ‘… hybrid gas turbine high temperature fuel cell concept ..’

        Substitute ‘E-cat’ or ‘quarkx’ for ‘fuel cell’ as the heat source. Gas turbines can produce plenty of thrust.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          I was thinking more in the line of an EM drive type of thrust. Thrust can also be created by using the heat or electricity of an ecat(x), but that would be a normal application of the ecat which is what I think Rossi may be referring to.

          • Omega Z

            ZZZ

            Steam turbine: Heat a sealed container(boiler) of water & you create superheated steam. Vent that through a valve and you have “thrust”.

            Gas turbine: Heat a sealed container of compressed air & you create superheated air. Vent that through a valve and you have “thrust”.

            E-cat Q will produce thrust just as jet fuel does. By superheating compressed air. Withou compressed air, a jet engine has no thrust. It would just get really hot and parts would start melting.

          • Ecco

            These wouldn’t be “propellantless”, however.

          • Omega Z

            The superheated compressed air is the propellant less the particulates of the burnt fuel which is negligible. Compressed air or CO2 cartridge provide thrust. Superheated just adds steroids to the thrust. You have to get beyond the flame.

  • blanco69

    Are we to assume then that a COP of >1.5 AND the absence of the F9 moderator means that we can say goodbye to any caveats about negatve results? In the past we have speculated that a COP >3 would be required for abundant electricity production. Whilst cheap hot water is a wonderful thing I’m not convinced that the world will step off the cliff into a new energy age when it becomes available. Let’s see what the quarks bring.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Rossi has said the cop >6. I think.

  • Manuel Cruz

    Assuming the COP is fixed and not in a range.

  • Bob Matulis

    A 1.5 COP if proven would be revolutionary. However, it would not be viable since using electricity in conjunction with a 1.5 COP is less efficient than burning natural gas. I thought with all the SSM the COP was much higher than this…

    • Frank Acland

      Rossi has confirmed a floor here in a response to a question about a specific COP. It could be much higher.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      A COP of 1.5 would be horrible. LENR energy would be quite expensive and also Rossi wouldn’t be as far ahead in the game as almost everyone believes he is.

    • DrD

      It’s atleast 6! He said that already.

    • Jimr

      Keep in mind that Rossi had 170 failures in the first 8 months, that would equate to about 250 failures in the 352 day test. We have no way of nowing how long or the effect of the outages, but it would surely influence overall COP.

      • wpj

        Also, 2 of the reactors started to lose efficiency form 9 months and 10 months (as this was a test system, different charges were used to see how long they lasted). This would also have reduced the COP.

        Interestingly, the data on the specs on the Hydrofusion website says 2 charges a year (and COP min 6) but they have clearly gone beyond this.

    • psi2u2

      It is most probably much higher – but how high remains subject to NDA at this time.

  • Mike Henderson

    A one-sentence summary by the ERV would be nice: “Over the course of ___ hours of operation, the eCat system produced ___ units of energy and consumed ___ units of electrical, chemical or other forms energy.”

    Of course, we’d like the details of how each of those three values were measured and qualified. But one sentence is all it really takes.

  • Mike Henderson

    Andrea Rossi
    April 4, 2016 at 8:02 AM
    Orso u i:
    1- yes
    2- the ionizing radiation meAsured outside the reactor is not different from the error margin of the background value.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

    orsobubu
    April 4, 2016 at 7:24 AM
    Dear Andrea:
    Can you say, at least, if the COP measured in the Report is lower than 758,327 ?
    Can you also say, at least, if the full-body ionizing radiation dose absorbed externally to the container is higher than 0.0001 mSv/yr?
    Cheers

    • Frank Acland

      Well we have a COP range to work with now 🙂

      • Ged

        You should totally add that to the title 😉

      • DrD

        Yes, but it’s minumum is 6, not 1.5 as per his aswer to from Hank’s earlier question.

  • BillH

    Oops, I should read all the thread first…..exactly

  • Observer

    What is the best day of the week for a press release?

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140623122139-40704424-what-s-the-best-day-to-publish-a-press-release

    The “10 days” mark would be Friday, but usually only bad news is released on a Friday.

    • bachcole

      Given the solidity of the pattern (law of physics) that Rossi is busting, “usually only bad news is released on a Friday” seems like a pattern of the very small potatoes variety.

      • Observer

        I am betting on a Wednesday.

  • Gerrit

    And Rossi stated that “I am very pleased with the results.” Which he most certainly wouldn’t be if the COP were actually in the range of 1.5.

    • LarryJ

      In effect he simply replied that the cop > 0 because there is no actual information in that statement. Later someone asked if it was less than some enormous number and he replied to that as well. So far he has said the cop > 1.5 and < 758,327 so we can assume a positive cop and let our imaginations come up with a number. Lugano has already confirmed there is a positive cop so this statement provides no information.

      Andrea Rossi

      April 4, 2016 at 11:29 AM

      Peter Gluck:

      I agree: the COP we obtained is more than 1.5 and less than 758,327.

  • Alain Samoun

    One other important question would be “how many hours the reactor has been working during the time of the test?”

    • LarryJ

      If I recall correctly the contract required that the reactor provide 1MW of power 24/7 for 350 days over a 400 day period. I believe the test was stopped 353 days after starting which would imply very little down time.

      Rossi also said that they did not start the clock until after several serious initial teething problems had been overcome.

  • psi2u2

    Just curious: what do we make of this recent oil price chart, showing the start of a significant decline around March 22?

    http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx?timeframe=1m

    Coincidence?

    • Mats002

      Yes coincidence. With your reasoning – what LENR event happened july 1st 2015?

      http://m.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx?timeframe=1y

      • psi2u2

        I just asked a question. Thank you for giving an answer. I have no idea if it is a coincidence or not. But I find it more than a little odd that the Saudi announcement happened while we were waiting for the results of the report. Do think that also is just a coincidence? I mean, it very well could be. I am just asking questions and raising possibilities. Sifferkol thinks the oil markets have been responding to LENR news for many months now. Is he correct? I certainly don’t claim to know.

        • Mats002

          Agree it is a compelling scenario, it would be a total surprise for me if it turns out to be the reason behind the big oil price decline.

        • EEStorFanFibb

          Recent changes in oil prices are not at all caused by anything to do with LENR. Sure it’s fun to think so but it’s just not the case imo.

          The reasons are numerous and less exciting. Blame a production glut first, the global climate agreement a distant second, and the rise of renewables/EVs third.

          • psi2u2

            Yes, I’m aware of all those other factors.

        • Omega Z

          I believe Sifferkol as well as many here may well be correct when correlating LENR impact to long term(20 years out) leased properties changing hands at below market value. The value of those leases will change with the market metrics of that time frame.

          However, the price of Oil today is based on Supply/Demand today. If LENR was front page news tomorrow, the price of oil will still be based on current supply/demand. This wont change until LENR products are in use and actually impacting the supply demand metrics.

          • psi2u2

            Thank you for explaining this distinction. I get your point. I can see that I was confusing two things that may not be very closely connected. But still, if assets are being sold and long term value depreciated, doesn’t that have a secondary impact of some extent on more immediate markets and sale price? I mean, the Saudi Aramco fire sale put down the price 4% on Friday.

      • Eyedoc

        Well, then I guess its quite the ‘coincidence’… wow, how low can it go when LENR IS finally a factor?? ………( and gas pump price is still being pimped up on us suckers)

        • Mats002

          Yes as said below this is an interesting question, COP is all about from where do you start counting. Economically I would say start with human labour. Do not include the work of the sun or birth of the universe. If so, what is the numbers?

          • Ged

            If one counts the entire universe, all COPs are less than 1, no matter the source. That’s the law of Entropy. Unless one can find out how to reverse entropy, the universe is fated to fade away into darkness.

            Edit: More directly related to your question, starting just with Human labor and capital and calculating from there, I found this paper http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856

    • Wow psi, oil is tanking.

      • LarryJ

        The price of oil is affected by a very large number of factors and the ecat may well be one of those factors but probably not a major one at this point. A big drop immediately after Rossi’s interview and press conference around June 21 might be a more significant correlation. I would not be surprised if the ERV’s report is also released at that time to support statements made at Rossi’s press conference.

        • True Larry, Not even sure if CF has made a dent if oil prices. My own perspective is the age of big oil is collapsing upon itself and we’re on the down-side of the bell- curve. My hope is CF will slowly replace big oil. They’ve developed too much yang.

  • TPaign

    They already claim a COP greater than 6 here http://ecat.com/ecat-products/ecat-1-mw/ecat-1mw-technical-data

    • Good point. You could ask him if the COP is greater than 5 and he would have given the same answer.

      • LarryJ

        I doubt it. The question would have been just as meaningful if it had asked is the cop > 0. Rossi would have said yes. Asking if it is >5 is getting too close to providing useful information that is covered under his NDA. Someone also asked if it was less than some very large number and he responded yes to that as well because it provides no information not already known.

        • DrD

          He already did answer it’s >6, see the question asked by Hank.
          He has 6 in his spec and has often said he cn achieve 6 so he’s giving nothing new away.

          • Ged

            Yes indeed. Seems they’ve already gotten an extension to June 12th.

          • Mike Henderson

            I am not a lawyer, but I believe the procedure is that the respondents respond with fairly perfunctory “deny” or “agree” responses to each of the petitioner’s claims. They also may contest the court’s jurisdiction in the matter. If they file counterclaims immediately, then there will be some real information coming to support their case.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I agree – I would have asked is the COP > 10. Rossi “might” bite on this number.

    If we asked >= 20, Rossi likely would have answered I have to wait until the agreements are settled in regards to the ERV and NDA’s

    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • LarryJ

      Rossi will not “bite” on anything that provides hard information. He would be in violation of his NDA.

  • bfast

    I know that a very narrow question was asked. I’m sure we are all expecting COP > 6, and much greater at that. COP of 1.5 would be a scientific curiosity, but hardly an energy revolution.

    • LCD

      Agreed. Under most conditions it is of little importance commercially.

      Scientifically it could be much more valuable since it could lead to many things, including higher COPs.

    • Omega Z

      In the context of LENR, Anything above COP of 1 is Scientifically huge. Consider Hot Fusion research of over 60 years and a couple hundred Billion$ in today’s value trying to achieve break even. However, for LENR to be economically viable, a COP>6 is necessary.

    • DrD

      He had already said the report has it as over 6 when answering Hank.
      Why is every one missing it and focusing on this lesser answer.

  • LCD

    Let’s just make sure we understand one thing. The positive/negative nature of the test is purely for commercial purposes.

    Scientifically speaking it is already of immense value.

    • enantiomer2000

      That depends. Science should be based on open information and allow for getting the same results experimentally. Rossi has been very secretive about his e-cat work so I would say that as of right now there is very little scientific value.

      • DrD

        “Rossi has been very secretive about his e-cat work”.
        You’re surprised?
        Most of us would do the same in his shoes.
        As for the science, I trust him to get it right. As was said over and over, “the proof of the pudding is in the eating”.
        This is not about convincing the public. The mass production of working E-Cats will do that and most of the public won’t even care if the science is understood or convincing.

      • LCD

        Look I’m making the assumption the information will become public if not through Rossi then through MFMP or somebody.

        I’m also making the assumption that the 1 year test success was based on more than just scientific value. And having learned recently of the F9 criteria I made that statement.

  • Anonymous

    My friend with a crystal ball says that the average COP was 75 +/-5. 🙂
    Which is between 70 and 80.

    • Omega Z

      If you can maintain a minimum of COP>20 then nothing else matters. Once you surpass COP>20, you quickly find greatly diminishing returns. It’s like compounding interest daily only with reverse results.

  • Ophelia Rump

    We have seen quite a lot over the years. There have been earlier tests and earlier reports, and even earlier people saying that we have seen nothing yet.

    I will paraphrase what I said earlier in this thread, we do not know, but we do have extremely strong beliefs. Those beliefs are based upon facts, events, reputations, and careful skeptical observation. You either need to do some more skeptical evaluation yourself, or you are yet another nihilist trying fervently to reduce what you do not know to zero so you need never deal with that uncomfortable feeling of the universe being fluid around you.

    • Guest

      Ophelia – love your comments normally, but find the above off base.

      LCD clearly was referring to the recent test and its ‘immense value’, I was also referring to the recent test and pointing out that the public knows almost nothing about it other than “Rossi says”, and that the currently unknown details actually matter quite a lot in terms of determining the value derived from the report.

      I am not a nihilist, nor am I blindly speculating. When/if the facts become public I look forward to revisiting this conversation.

      • LCD

        Yes and to be clear I was expounding on the fact that based on the general effect, scientific value and commercial value are not necessarily connected. I think that is a defensible argument.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    SK has recently published an updated version of Gamberale’s report on Defkalion’s reactor:

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/04/04/exposing-defkalion-version-of-rossi-e-cat/

    I would not be surprised if he had sent a copy to IH. It could well be that they will require additional tests in order to rule out possible errors in the ERV’s measurements.

    • Brent Buckner

      I very much doubt that a COP averaging 6 for a year (with metered electricity input and heat measurement good enough for an industrial process) would be much compromised by errors in the ERV’s measurements.

      I expect that as a matter of contract the ERV report will bind IH to make a payment to Leonardo and IH will not contest that.

    • Omega Z

      SK’s attacks come about like clock work.
      Always preceding some test results becoming public etc…
      Has to earn his pay I guess.

  • DrD

    It’s not >1.5, It’s > 6!

    Hank Mills
    March 29, 2016 at 6:23 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Is it safe to assume you would not be “very” pleased -beyond simply being
    satisfied – with the results of any test of an E-Cat product if even a
    miniscule amount of radiation (beyond background) had been detected
    outside of the reactors, a detectable level of unstable decaying
    transmutation products had been found during analysis of the ash,
    or the COP was below the long term goal of 6?
    Sincerely,
    Hank Mills

    Andrea Rossi
    March 29, 2016 at 10:03 PM
    Hank Mills:

    Yes.

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Pietro F.
    • artefact
      • “A potential avenue that could be explored is that of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions or Lattice Enabled Nanoscale Reactions (LENR). This is a chemical/physical event where anomalous amounts of heat are generated when certain metals absorb hydrogen or deuterium and an external stimulus such as an electric current is directly applied.

        A potential partner for KSA to partner with is Industrial Heat LLC that was incorporated in 2012 and is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. This firm has already been granted the license to sell and manufacture energy catalysers “E-Cats” in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, I do not think it unreasonable to envisage the Saudis looking for partners to help start laying the groundwork for commercialisation of LENR within the Kingdom and for export overseas.”

        See new Admin post.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Joseph Fine April 5, 2016 at 7:43 AM
    Andrea Rossi,
    Orsobubu asked if the COP was less than 758,327.
    Even if the COP equals (or exceeds) ‘only’ the cube root of 758,327 ( or 91.191 ), that still would be a tremendous achievement.
    Whatever the results are from the 350 day 1 MW test, do you think results from a similar test of the E-Cat QuarkX (or QX) would equal or exceed those of the E-CAT 1 MW system? ‘F8’
    Best regards, Joseph Fine

    Andrea Rossi April 5, 2016 at 7:46 AM
    Dr Joseph Fine:
    I suppose so. F8.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

  • Mark S.

    This article is saying that IH has backed away from Rossi.

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2016/03/29/industrial-heat-goes-cold-on-rossi/

    Sounds like they think ecat is a bust.

    • Andre Blum

      Mark,

      Yes. That’s an article by steven krivit. Long time followers know him from earlier days. He was a very active pathoskeptic-in-journalist-disguise. We don’t take him serious here. He has a potential of doing a lot of damage, though, and it seems he has taken up his favorite hobby after a period of relative calm. He is also the owner and author of shutdownrossi.com [ EDIT: oh no, that was gary wright ]. It was suggested he is paid for his articles by darker forces. I am not so sure. I think he is just a lunatic.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, many of us are familiar with what Krivit says. More often than not you can count on him to probably be wrong, as Andre Blum says below.

      • bachcole

        I love your question, and I hope that someone has a good answer. I would think that almost by definition, all non-nuclear energy sources would necessarily have a COP less than 1. Although I am sure that that could be wrong. The thing is that these energy sources concentrate the energy. Solar energy per se is sort of useless except for tanning purposes (and warming the Earth), but solar energy devices collect and concentrate the energy. A lot of trucks and man hours go into mining coal, but it is a concentrated energy.

        I would LOVE to hear other voices on this question.

        • Obvious

          If you include the sun doing the on Earth to make the products, they are all negative COP.
          If you include the sun (at the source), it is almost a wash, but that leaves out making the sun, and before that some earlier stars, and then before that, the universe being made.

          COP is all about where you put the goalposts.

          • In the case of true ‘renewables’ – wind, solar, hydro, tidal, etc. – the ‘COP’ will depend on how long the hardware runs. In each case (and ignoring maintenance other than replacement) there is a payback period until the initial energy investment has been repaid, after which all energy output can be considered as gain.

            When major items such as panels, blades, turbines etc. need to be replaced, this gain is offset against the energy invested in the new parts, and so on.

          • Hador_NYC

            Does anyone include the Sun? That seems far from reasonable from a humanity standpoint. The goal post should be from bare ground to energy available to use. To use oil as an example, it should be the energy spent building the well, pipeline or hauling that oil to the refinery, refining it, and then moving it to the distribution point, the retailer. That’s what matters. The fact that the sun makes the oil with plants and geological processes is immaterial for our use, other than the fact that it will run out; something I think we all hope doesn’t happen. I’d much rather us stop using it because we replace it with something else, hopefully this LENR/CF.

            Going back to my example, I don’t think, from what I have read, that folks include the costs of exploration. Also, I am not sure they include, as I did in my example, post refinery.

            As for numbers, I recall reading Fracking was in the 2-4 range, whereas Saudi Oil was like 10. Again, I could be wrong ,as I can not offer links, I just seem to recall this. I would love it if someone had some good links, but I suspect oil folks, and miners as well, keep those numbers close to the vest.

          • EEStorFanFibb
          • Hhiram

            Thanks, I was going to post about EROEI, which is very similar to COP.

            It is worth noting that the “legacy” oil and gas fields (e.g. gushers) produced well over 100:1 EROEI. Since those oil and gas fields are all depleted now, the highest EROEI is probably in some undeveloped areas of Iraq or Saudi Arabia, maybe still 50:1 or thereabouts. But as your chart shows, conventional oil is now down to about 20:1, and unconventional oil and gas (e.g. tracking) is lower – sometimes under 10:1.

            In order for our economy to function as it currently does, we need at least 10:1 EROEI. Wind and solar can do this, but biofuels cannot. Tar sands are also not adequate.

            LENR really needs COP >10 to transform the global economy.

          • Obvious

            My points was exaggerated, but my final comment gets to the point. It depends where the fuel is used on what the “COP” might be.

            In Saskatchewan, Canada, for example, the electric company mines their own coal and the pant is essentially at the mine. They use electric machinery, powered directly by the plant to mine the coal. Even with low heat energy coal, their efficiency is relatively high. Their internalized costs I think might have been around $8 a ton all-in, but that was a long time ago.

            For oil, it is vastly more complicated, depending very much on where it comes from.

    • LCD

      Krivit basically said nothing, as usual.

  • LCD

    You can’t say with a straight face we’ve heard from nobody, come on, that’s silly. You’ve heard from darden, and other replicators about the general experiments.

    Also don’t confuse publicly funded research with privately funded research. This is very hard for pure academics to understand. They are two completely different animals and both have advantages and disadvantages.

  • jousterusa

    There are a multitude of promises, high expectations, end!ESS speculation and no results. That”e all I can say to

    • MasterBlaster7

      That doesn’t seem likely. All along Rossi et. all have been talking about releasing the report without reservation. If there was a non-disclosure section, it is likely we would have heard about it.

      • Omega Z

        Legally, all their agreements and NDA’s are still in effect until the court rules one way or the other.
        Rossi has said all along that it could be released only when all parties agreed.

        As “peacelovewoodstock” says, it is still under NDA until it is exposed in court or the court rules there has already been a breach of contract.

  • psi2u2

    The comparison is not really that relevant to me since oil, coal and natural gas are finite resources that involve numerous environmental risks and health hazards. If Nasa thinks — as some Nasa employees certainly do – that LENR is going to power the next generation of flying ships – planes and rockets – then I think the COP is going to be high enough.

  • psi2u2

    Ken it has always been my experience here that there is a good exchange of ideas from many different viewpoints here. I see a lot of reason for hope, so if I am not wrong we will be able to celebrate.

  • Obvious

    I’m not sure what the exact figures are for natural gas, coal or oil, but I doubt we would be doing for long if it cost more than we got out of it in terms of energy. We would simply run out of fuel at some point.

    • BillH

      Not directly, and that’s the problem. You might burn the coal to heat water to turn a steam engine to turn a dynamo to produce electricity, or some other way. each stage introducing losses of heat or friction or wear leading to replacement. At the moment we consider electricity to be the most useful in terms of flexibility and transportability.

  • Byron McDonald

    And, why is Mats Lewan so quiet now? Very curious about the results of his efforts to get corroboration (as any journalist would seek) regarding completion of the ERV Report. Would love to see a new report from his Blog – I mean JT is a dashing fellow but I would rather see something else pop up when I got to Mats’ blog 🙂

    • Ged

      Hrm, there has been an odd amount of silence in all the usual channels the past couple days. Nothing new on quantumheat.org, or the MFMP Facebook the past few days. I suppose everyone is busy with something.

  • vrlenr

    MFMP being silent might mean they are preparing for a bigger announcement. The comments on Brian Albiston’s latest replication attempt were fairly promising.

  • Right, his problem is that he have tendencies, even when supporting LENR like he did courageously since long, to see conspiracy everywhere.
    worst problem is that he is very good, like many journalist, to transform lack of data into conspiracy evidences.

    in fact if you read precisely what he says, he does not lie, he state facts, and INTERPRET.

    I’ve been trained to process-comm psychology framework, and his main personality facet seems to be “perseverant”, which when pushed to the expreme is paranoid.
    He have values, and interpret anything in term of intent and values. things does not happen by accident, but because of intent of the actors for him.

    Funnily Rossi is about the same facet of personality ( he sees snakes, clown…).

    • Omega Z

      SK is also good at name dropping in mid sentence or paragraph leading the reader to think that person is in agreement with his view. I recall 1 of his reports including a name drop, “He’d had a converstion with Robert Duncan” while calling Rossi a fraud.

      In reality, He’d had a converstion with Robert Duncan discussing the ICCF event at University of Missouri. It had nothing to do about Rossi at all. But if you just skimmed the article, you would have missed that and assume Duncan was in agreement with SK’s views of Rossi. Thus giving credibility to SK by way of the prestige of Robert Duncan.

  • psi2u2

    This is a common occurrence, unfortunately.

  • Allan Kiik

    Whatever happened to them (Bob G, Alan G), it apparently took data.hugnetlab.com away too…

    • US_Citizen71

      Maybe that is the delay.

  • Warthog

    It’s not just Rossi. He has had vendettas against other LENR researchers. If it was limited to Rossi, I could cut him some slack……but in my mind he is far more like Gary Taubes (who did for Bockris what Krivit is doing for Rossi).

    • bachcole

      What other LENR researchers/developers does he rip?

      • Warthog

        Miles or Miley…don’t recall exactly which of the two. And I long ago swore off of ever visiting Krivit’s website.

  • SD

    They were supposed to start a new experiment around today or yesterday. I suppose they are just a little late and are busy prepping the experiment.

  • US_Citizen71

    LENR heat would likely make ethanol and bio-diesel more competitive as the largest single piece of energy consumption for them is the heat used to make them.

    Ethanol, methanol and butanol all can be made from agricultural waste/cellulose through heating and application of the right catalysts. This method of fuel production could kill oil and still allow liquid fuel for ICE if you have a cheap energy efficient method of producing high temperatures. It also would be carbon neutral if no carbon energy is used to produce the heat.

  • LCD

    Well given what’s happened lately it’s worrisome. I do think LENR is real enough. Whether it is commercially viable at this point is another matter. This latest fiasco may suggest it is not and Rossi is deluding himself.

  • LCD

    There are several “guests” so I’d probably change your handle if you can.

    Yeah my head is spinning at this point. I have my own problems to worry about but from what I’ve seen and heard I do believe the LENR+ effect is real. Radiation-less is another matter.

    I’ve spent a considerable amount of time reviewing all the theories and none of them yet fit the bill for me. If Rossi doesn’t have the theory, then he’s playing, and if he’s playing it’s very possible he’s got an inconsistent thing, and that’s my worry.

  • Veblin

    David Hambling Apr 20, 2016
    Popular Mechanics
    In Cold Fusion 2.0, Who’s Scamming Whom?
    The researcher claiming a cold fusion breakthrough is in the midst of a $100 million lawsuit, all while others race to duplicate his efforts, trying to prove that this time it’s not all smoke and mirrors.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a20454/in-cold-fusion-20-whos-scamming-whom/

  • LuFong

    Mats Lewan has taken up the task of trying to get to the truth of this matter: https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/20/lets-join-forces-to-bring-out-the-truth-on-rossi-ih-affair/

    Note that the emphasis here is what we actually know (versus conjecture).

    • wpj

      I found reading it a bit disturbing; he does not mention many of the counter arguments that have also come from his contacts (producing sponge metal catalysts, 10-20 power savings), plus supposed 2 years due diligence from Woodford.

      • LuFong

        Mat as a journalist has to walk a fine line. He’s really sticking his neck out here, IMO, with Rossi. IH obviously doesn’t want to try this situation on the Internet and perhaps even in court as it’s not going to help them much–I think they may have written the $11M off or have asked for it back, who knows. It’s Rossi who file the civil suit and has been doing most of the chattering.

  • MasterBlaster7

    Ok, IH Has a copy. Rossi has a copy. The lawyers have a copy. Exactly what is it about the ERV that would postpone its release? I don’t see how releasing a copy to the public could hinder or help a case on either side.

  • psi2u2

    I wouldn’t assume that all of those people work in the same location, and some may not be full time employees. We don’t know.

    • Rip Kirbyian

      You are right about that. But at least a couple of these persons would work regularly together with Rossi. If this is just a scam it would be very hard to involve and fool them over an extended period of time even if it just five people or so…

  • Bob

    Better yet…
    Go to the address of the “secret customer” that was listed in the lawsuit. See if there is any activity whatsoever. If the 1 year test was on an actual production line and the customer was happy that they purchased 3 more units, the test unit should still be running. At least the factory should be. That would be really convincing, either way!
    .
    If I lived within 200 miles, I would drive there and check it out. Unfortunately, it is more like 1500 miles. 🙁

    • wpj

      Artefact on another post states that the unit is now up for rent, so it appears to have been vacated.

  • US_Citizen71

    IH has 7 days left to file their response with the court, just a little more patience.

  • jousterusa

    I’m sorry that AR is allowing his attorney to make a decision about publishing this document. Attorneys are famously reluctant to disclose anything they are not forced by ethics or court order to disclose. Forget about seeing the report!

    • Omega Z

      jouster

      All NDA’s and agreements are still enforceable until the court rules on the beach of contract question. Thus niether IH or Rossi will release the ERV report. The alternative is if it is exposed in the court.

      • jousterusa

        Enforceability is the fundamental nexus of the phenomenon known in journalism as a “leak.” I think AR would be wise to leak the report if it establishes a COP of 50. Upon seeing that, the world may grow tired of waiting and seize on it ferociously to save itself from climate change, NDAs be damned!

        • Omega Z

          I’m sorry jouster, I need to reread what was published.
          However, If my Recall isn’t failing me, I think it stated COP>50 a substantial portion of time. What is substantial (40% 50%, 75%).

          This does not say that the average COP=50. It could just as easily be COP=10. We really need to know what percentage of time was in SSM as that will give us a much clearer picture of the COP. Note even in SSM, Rossi said it requires about 14KW of power.

          If Rossi were to leak the report and discovered, That could be considered a breach of the agreement by Rossi and no 89 M$ payment required.

          As to the agreement, what COP is required to be acceptable. Is it the always stated guarantee of COP>6. If so, then COP>50 is not necessary. Also, any COP>20 is negligible. That is already a 95% savings in input. Infinite COP would only save an additional 5%.

          As SSM still requires input and controls also need power, Infinite COP isn’t possible.

          • Frank Acland

            “71. … By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.” http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf

            OZ, It doesn’t say COP 50 for a substantial period of time, it says during the test.

          • DrD

            Going from memeory, the document states the average was over 50.
            I think average must mean over the full 352 days of the test.
            The contract requirement was COP > 6 for $89k reducing linearly to $0 for COP=2.6. So even just under 3 was a technically a pass.
            It’s all in the documents posted here, or linked to.

  • Mike Rion

    Amen to that!

    • Engineer48

      Interesting photos that seems to show Darden and Vaughn working in Rossi’s Italian factory and testing a early 1 MW plant. I say early as note the ECat blue modules on the roof.

      • Ged

        What a great find. Thank you.

  • jousterusa

    And where would the evidence of who leaked it come from, if four parties – IH, AR and their separate lawyers – all have a copy?

    • peacelovewoodstock

      Evidence would come from investigation, from forensics, etc. If you are suggesting that Rossi can “leak” the report with impunity as long as he does it surreptitiously, I think that would be a huge risk for him with zero upside.

  • jousterusa

    The better thing to do is to visit the trash bins of the folks who have copies and find the ones they tossed out…