UK Government Department Position on Rossi's Work — "Unverifiable"

Thanks to JNM for sharing the following response from the British Department of Energy and Climate Change to an inquiry he made regarding LENR. It does indicate that they are aware of what is going on.

“Thank you for your email, dated 30 March to the Prime Minister, about low-energy nuclear reactions. This Department’s position on low-energy nuclear reactions and the claims of Professor Rossi is to maintain a watching brief. Should the effect Professor Rossi describes transpire to be genuinely reproducible and to have a nature along the lines he describes, it would likely be the UK’s research councils, and not DECC, that would lead on development of skills and research in this area in the UK. However, given this, we feel that Professor Rossi’s experiments would be more credible if they could be independently verified (e.g. through experimentation that is peer reviewed). This would require the duplication of his experimental method and results by others, which is currently impossible, as he has not yet disclosed details of this to the scientific community. We understand that attempts by others to replicate his process, based on what information he has released have not yet yielded reproducible results and until such time as they can do so, we have no choice but to view his claims as unverifiable.

“I hope that this is helpful.

“Yours sincerely, DECC Correspondence Unit”

  • Robert Dorr

    I have a suggestion for the British Government, buy one. Rossi guarantees his work so if it didn’t work they would be free to walk away at no cost to the people of the UK.

    • DrD

      If it doesn’t work they can always demand a refund and who knows, it might save them that postponed Hinkley point investment:
      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/72536336-0a31-11e6-9456-444ab5211a2f.html#axzz46up2KFHz

      • GordonDocherty

        Exactly. Basic risk management.

      • Montague Withnail

        There is such a thing as credit risk. Maybe if Prof. Rossi were willing to keep the payment in Escrow it could work.

        The simpler thing however would just be to get a credible validation done. Until that happens, you really have to ask why anybody else should be getting involved.

        • Billy Jackson

          i think you were right in your first point above.. they are elected officials. and as such.. they are not willing to give their opponents ammunition to use against them when they “bet” on cold fusion. I wish it was as simple as a guaranteed money back situation..

        • Robert Dorr

          That’s how Rossi has said he would do it in the past, that is to hold the money in escrow and only release the funds when the plant is built and working to the customers satisfaction. I do realize that the British government would probably get hammered by the pathoskeptics but someone needs to jump in and get there feet wet. The cost would be exceedingly minimal in comparison to other expenditures governments make.

          • cashmemorz

            Its not the monetary costs but the political costs. Its too early to be risking anything like party image by latching into something as obscure, controversial and unproven as LENR. Here is where “getting used to the thought of something as revolutionary as LENR” starts.

          • Robert Dorr

            In my opinion, I think it would behoove Rossi to sell his plant as just an improved, money saving device, forget the fact that it’s LENR that powers it. If some one were selling a gas fired thermal plant and they said, for example, “My thermal plant is 500% more efficient and at a resonable price” and guaranteed that amount of performance, you’d be foolish not to consider giving it a try.

          • DrD

            That’s what he did. If you look at his US patent, he never mentions LENR or cold fusion. If he had, it would have been rejected as being inconsistent with the laws of physics.

          • Robert Dorr

            I mean sales through a 3rd party, so the sales of the thermal plants could distance themselves for all the controversy concerning LENR. Again if you just sold it as a thermal plant using a proprietary process, giving fantastic performance. Right now, anything regarding energy tied to the name of Rossi or Leonardo is like Kryptonite.

          • DrD

            That but more so is the disruption and repercussions of replacing (or scrapping) all the existing systems and infrastructure, especially oil based. Just imagine the losses if we no longer needed nuclear or oil or coal, solar or wind. All those careers and investments down the drain. What about the pension funds.

        • NT

          I believe Rossi’s company uses the Escrow method on purchases for the 1MW plants until the customer is satisfied, but I could be wrong. I believe blogger Engineer48, here on record, has the correct answer as he claims to be in the process of purchasing one for a client…

    • Montague Withnail

      You know that our government is run by politicians who are elected right?

      We also have transparency laws so that anything like that would have to be made completely pubic. They would be slaughtered in the media, it’s way too risky a thing as a government, but it wouldn’t hurt to have our academics do some research. All they need to do is put the funding out there, the faculties will soon come round to it.

    • Alex Fenrick

      No offense, but that is just ludicrous to suggest that the British Government should buy a new controversial unproven technology on one man’s word. Even if they made a ridiculous leap of faith …do you honestly think Rossi would refund them not only for the plant…but the massive infrastructure and staffing cost etc etc?? There are so many other problems with this perspective..we could go on for hours…

      • Robert Dorr

        Do I think that Rossi would refund the money for the plant? Yes. Would he refund them for ancillary cost? Probably not. Do I think the British government has spent massive amounts of public funds on silly and stupid ideas. Absolutely. Do I consider Rossi’s 1 MW plant silly and stupid? No. Massive amounts of infrastructure and staffing to use a 1 MW thermal plant, now that is ludicrous.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Can you provide me another new fringe unproven technology that the British government has invested millions in (especially one that mainstream science has not agreed with)? I am not being argumentative….I honestly do not know the answer to that….I have never heard of anything substantial in that realm. If you doubt the massive amounts of infrastructure and staffing for a government project…especially one of this untested nature…you have no experience with government projects. Believe me…whether that expense it is truly necessary or not…it would exist with the government. I just do not see validity in your initial suggestion at all.

          • Robert Dorr

            You say fringe, I call it a thermal plant, plain and simple, albeit a new type. It’s 10 million dollars, government chicken feed. How about the 12 billion pounds the British government spent on the NHS I.T. system that was never implemented. When you speak of Rossi’s 1 MW thermal plant, it’s in a single shipping container. How many hundreds of workers can you put in a shipping container? You would simply be interfacing the plant into an existing thermal plant. How many hundreds are going to be needed to stand around and watch that in operation. You can say it would take a ‘massive’ amount but I disagree.

          • Alex Fenrick

            First of all of course you don’t need hundreds of workers …but you would need a team…absoultely around the clock at least for a while..that team would be expensive. There WOULD be other infrastruction well beyond the $10 million dollar initial pricetag. You are the one who is quoting hundreds of workers…please point out where I stated that. I feel as if you do not understand the reality of government allocation, spending and expense. I guess we agree to disagree.

          • Robert Dorr

            You are the one that stated the probable need for “massive” infrastructure. When I perceive massive I see hundreds of people in a factory setting. Perhaps we are both using a bit of hyperbole. Yes, I think we have a fundamental disagreement.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Robert….you do understand the difference between “infrastructure” and “staff” of a company or organization right? I think you are confusing the two….

          • Robert Dorr

            I do understand the difference and I was considering both aspects of the issue, both hard and soft assets.

      • cashmemorz

        True. Government, at this stage of non-acceptability of LENR, would have to do many things to make procurement appear to be acceptable. It is simpler to wait until the acceptability of LENR has risen to a certain, shall we say realistic, level in the market place and then procure one thru normal channels.

        • Omega Z

          Wait until a realistic, level in the market place.
          At which time it is pointless.

          Anyway, Governments aren’t usually very objective.

  • roseland67

    Standard Govt line, exactly what I would expect, but also, the same as my opinion since Jan, 2011

  • Gerard McEk

    Well, that’s fair, AR has never been open to reveal his secrets. I assume that some company in the UK will buy a unit of AR with government money, when things start to look positive.They will do tests and disassemble it to see how it works. No country in the world can afford running behind with this. I am sure that behind the screens things are already happening. A positive indication that the E-cat works will start an enormous effort all over the world to unlock the secrets of cold fusion.

  • Gerard McEk

    Well, that’s fair, AR has never been open to reveal his secrets. I assume that some company in the UK will buy a unit of AR with government money, when things start to look positive.They will do tests and disassemble it to see how it works. No country in the world can afford running behind with this. I am sure that behind the screens things are already happening. A positive indication that the E-cat works will start an enormous effort all over the world to unlock the secrets of cold fusion.

    • “AR has never been open to reveal his secrets.”

      If he were open with his secrets, I would steal- ummm, no. I would not.

      But someone else would steal them …

  • DrD

    Typical brush off.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      It seems to be an official, defensive, position.
      Another reader may find it – between the lines – aware and cautious.
      Not innovative.

    • GiveADogABone

      It is not really the science that is at issue; it is the independent verification that the technology safely delivers that really matters. If we wait for :-
      1: the reluctant scientific establishment to sort this, or
      2: the end of the court case,
      it will go on for years.

      That will suit the vested interests just fine and in the meantime the patent period runs down. What is the delivery strategy?

  • DrD

    Typical brush off.

    • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

      It seems to be an official, defensive, position.
      Another reader may find it – between the lines – aware and cautious.
      Not innovative.

    • GiveADogABone

      It is not really the science that is at issue; it is the independent verification that the technology safely delivers that really matters. If we wait for :-
      1: the reluctant scientific establishment to sort this, or
      2: the end of the court case,
      it will go on for years.

      That will suit the vested interests just fine and in the meantime the patent period runs down. What is the delivery strategy?

      • clovis ray

        No problemo,
        The good Dr, is at present, assembling the first few commercial units by hand, until automated assembly lines are up and running,
        actually, when looking at the device, it is mostly known stuff, like a heat exchanger, so easily built, with the exception of the reactor, which could of course be a slide in cartridge, not much enginering, i could probably lay it out myself.

        I just read that, Dr.R, had just perfected an tamper proof failsafe for their reactors.

        • Eyedoc

          Hope you’re right Clovis

  • Observer

    In the industrial world, reproduction of your product by an independent party is called theft.

    • Pweet

      No. Reproduction of your product followed by sale would be called patent infringement, providing you had a patent which adequately covered your product. You could then notify them of their infringement and if they persisted, you could sue them for lost income and the profit they made on your product.
      However, if your product was not covered by patent or design copyright all you could do is try and undercut them on price.
      Rossi has said many times that will be his approach.
      It will have to be. His patent is so non specific to the working of his technology that nobody can reproduce his results, apparently. So the patent must be missing something critical to success, and is therefore not much use to him. In fact it leaves open the possibility that someone else can find the critical missing element and patent it themselves. Mr. Rossi would then be in the position of infringing their patent.

      • Nigel Appleton

        I agree. In fact I suspect his patent is actually invalid, at least with respect to fuel composition.

        If Rossi is relying on, say, a particular morphology or treatment of one of the fuel components; or if he has omitted to mention some other “secret sauce”, then he has lost – for (if the effect is real) someone will come up with it or an alternative and protect it properly

        The same will apply to the Quark. If he doesn’t make full disclosure and teaching, any patents granted will be invalid – or rather, the applications will be refused.

        Actually, I’m wondering if this whole thing is more a tussle over access to the Quark technology. Can anyone remember if the License dictates automatic access by IH to improvements in LENR technology? That would not be uncommon in such agreements, and the outcome of any such fight would very much depend on the actual wording of relevant clause(s)

        • Omega Z

          Treatment of the fuel components Is included in the patent. Most people missed that detail. This is not surprising as there is a lot of info and most people merely skim the text looking for the most juicy details.

          The agreement does give IH rights to the Hot-cat and the Quark technology is a derivative of the Hot cat. However, you can’t give what is not yet completed. The Quark is still very much in R&D.
          ———————————————————————–
          Note about replication attemps. It’s possible they may have better success if everyone didn’t take so many liberties to change the parameters.

          It’s like, I’m going to replicate my mothers angel food cake.
          I don’t have any angel food cake mix. I’m sure that box of brownie mix in the cabinet will suffice. It should turn out exactly the same???

          • Pweet

            Yes, Rossi’s mistake was to publicly state the ecatX tech is a derivation of the hotcat tech. He should have thought that through a bit before making that statement.
            He has since tried to separate the technology by saying the development was not at the IH sponsored site and that it was done at his own laboratory. That will be a difficult point to prove in light of the many previous announcements. I still think the ecatX announcements were being made with the express purpose of luring IH back into the partnership, and now that we know there was another $89 million dollars on the line, that seems even more likely.
            Anyway, as you rightly say, IH definitely have access to the hotcat plus improvements on it.

      • clovis ray

        The only problem with that is, we all know who the cat belongs to now don’t we,
        And this is not the first time,someone tried to steal his kitties,
        and something this big God must be looking on, so in my opinion,
        when you work against Dr.R ‘well’ i would advise against it,

      • Omega Z

        Rossi’s 1st patent, if followed precisely will likely allow excess heat. COP just beyond 1. His additional patents in process will provide additional details as each becomes public.

        Likely, they will be cloaked in darkness until just before being granted or not like the last one. This is done to limit disclosure as long as possible. Once disclosed, the priority date becomes effective. His IP is protected

        • Pweet

          The important part in your reply is this;-
          “will likely allow excess heat. COP just beyond 1”.
          If someone makes money out of LENR it will not be with a COP of just beyond 1, even though at this point, a reliably reproducible “just beyond 1” would be a notable achievement.
          It will have to be with a COP of at least 6, which is what was always claimed.
          The patent Rossi filed has never been shown by anyone else to produce a COP of anywhere near that. It’s what the guys at MFMP have been trying to do for years now with little success. Their results have consistently been a possible COP of just beyond 1, with the emphasis on ‘possible’. All postive results are still within the range of experimental error. That’s not a good sign after so long on the task with a starting point of all the information now available on Rossi’s technology, including the various patents.

          The first person to apply for a patent covering a REPRODUCIBLE COP of 6 or greater will be granted the patent, and more than likely will apply for it world wide. They will also very quickly be very rich, as Mr. Rossi could have been if has what he claims and had done things properly, and in accordance with normal requirements.

    • clovis ray

      yep,

  • Jarea

    What about MFMP results, Parkhomov and the Chineses? Are they not independent enough? Are their papers not good enough?
    What i don’t understand is why do they spend a lot of money in investigations where maybe there is no any possible result and they dont want to risk investigating cold fusion?
    It would be worth to build a team in a University that tries to reproduce the results with little amount of money. Just a small percentage of what is invested in the always “10 years away hot fusion” projects.

    • Simply said: they are not conclusive.

    • Billy Jackson

      Our beliefs and the things we are willing to accept are not the same as hard proof and verifiable in the least. unfortunately MFMP, Parkhomov and the Chinese have not really produced anything more than whats already known. some are more open than others but none of them are playing in the same ballpark as what Rossi is claiming.

      Cold Fusion / LENR has political baggage around it.. the stigma that was caused 25 years ago is going to stick to it for a while, as such its very easy to see why you got a polite “we are aware of the ongoing debates” instead of hard commitments we all want to see. Just know that this letter is but the tip of the iceberg there is much much more going on than they are willing to share or publicly commit to..

    • f sedei

      You are correct. And, one can bet the governments were well aware of Rossi and LENR from day one. They could verify Rossi’s claims in little time…if they wanted to do so. This scientific breakthrough is too big for the governments to handle at this time. The possible impact of LENR upon world wide economies could be devastating. More time (how much?) will be needed by the political powers before societies will be allowed to benefit from LENR. In the meantime, you can also bet that the US Government is working like crazy to take full advantage in advance of the other nations. Just my humble take on the situation.

      • Omega Z

        ->”you can also bet that the US Government is working like crazy to take full advantage”

        Somewhere is a place that no one will even acknowledge exists, a shadow agency has done LENR 40 plus years ago. They have developed all kinds of technology and kept it locked up. There are published LENR papers dating to 1962. 54 years ago. 27 years before P&F.

        Those Evil Evil people.
        No, I don’t think so. They merely withhold this knowledge until they think society is ready or capable of using it somewhat responsibly. Kind of like how your parents gradually allow you more freedoms based on how mature and responsible you are.

        When they decide it is time, they start providing R&D funding to that technology. Why not just turn over what they? Because people get very upset finding you withheld the technology for years.

        Less you think this is stuff of conspiracy, keep in mind that stealth technology(F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning), are 50+ year old technology. What do they have now?

        You can’t keep this stuff secret!!! Yet a couple 1000 people are transported in and out of Area 51 and Groom lake daily for decades. Nothing but Silence.

        • Eyedoc

          Yes, unfortunately people can be very strange in positions of ‘power’.

  • Jarea

    What about MFMP results, Parkhomov and the Chineses? Are they not independent enough? Are their papers not good enough?
    What i don’t understand is why do they spend a lot of money in investigations where maybe there is no any possible result and they dont want to risk investigating cold fusion?
    It would be worth to build a team in a University that tries to reproduce the results with little amount of money. Just a small percentage of what is invested in the always “10 years away hot fusion” projects.

    • Simply said: they are not conclusive. (yet)

    • Billy Jackson

      Our beliefs and the things we are willing to accept are not the same as hard proof and verifiable in the least. unfortunately MFMP, Parkhomov and the Chinese have not really produced anything more than whats already known. some are more open than others but none of them are playing in the same ballpark as what Rossi is claiming.

      Cold Fusion / LENR has political baggage around it.. the stigma that was caused 25 years ago is going to stick to it for a while, as such its very easy to see why you got a polite “we are aware of the ongoing debates” instead of hard commitments we all want to see. Just know that this letter is but the tip of the iceberg there is much much more going on than they are willing to share or publicly commit to..

    • f sedei

      You are correct. And, one can bet the governments were well aware of Rossi and LENR from day one. They could verify Rossi’s claims in little time…if they wanted to do so. This scientific breakthrough is too big for the governments to handle at this time. The possible impact of LENR upon world wide economies could be devastating. More time (how much?) will be needed by the political powers before societies will be allowed to benefit from LENR. In the meantime, you can also bet that the US Government is working like crazy to take full advantage in advance of the other nations. Just my humble take on the situation.

      • Omega Z

        ->”you can also bet that the US Government is working like crazy to take full advantage”

        Somewhere is a place that no one will even acknowledge exists, a shadow agency has done LENR 40 plus years ago. They have developed all kinds of technology and kept it locked up. There are published LENR papers dating to 1962. 54 years ago. 27 years before P&F.

        Those Evil Evil people.
        No, I don’t think so. They merely withhold this knowledge until they think society is ready or capable of using it somewhat responsibly. Kind of like how your parents gradually allow you more freedoms based on how mature and responsible you are.

        When they decide it is time, they start providing R&D funding to that technology. Why not just turn over what they? Because people get very upset finding you withheld the technology for years.

        Less you think this is stuff of conspiracy, keep in mind that stealth technology(F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning), are 50+ year old technology. What do they have now?

        You can’t keep this stuff secret!!! Yet a couple 1000 people are transported in and out of Area 51 and Groom lake daily for decades. Nothing but Silence.

        • Eyedoc

          Yes, unfortunately people can be very strange in positions of ‘power’.

    • BadgerWI

      “reproducible results ” is the key there. There have been some great papers and interesting results but nothing that is consistently replicable.

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    Well. At least we know that all the government are aware about Rossi. This could lead to much more speculation.
    But there is one thing that is not speculation. If the government is aware of Rossi, then the market is. So, the more i read about this, the more i believe that the Saudies are moving away from petrol due to the E-Cat.
    Even as speculation, this reinforces my theory that IH wants to stall the development.

    In about 10 years i hope we could look back and see the whole picture. It would be nice if the e-cat is fully implemented then, with Rossi getting his merit, also Celani, Parkomov and others.
    And also to see that there were multiple attacks – China trying to get the E-Cats to copycat them and not paying for the license, the Saudies trying to buy the IP or the licenses, the Oil companies trying to stall it… and so.

    It would be the perfect scenario for a really incredible film.

    • Eyedoc

      Sorry I’ve already claimed the story rights long ago 😉

  • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

    Well. At least we know that all the government are aware about Rossi. This could lead to much more speculation.
    But there is one thing that is not speculation. If the government is aware of Rossi, then the market is. So, the more i read about this, the more i believe that the Saudies are moving away from petrol due to the E-Cat.
    Even as speculation, this reinforces my theory that IH wants to stall the development.

    In about 10 years i hope we could look back and see the whole picture. It would be nice if the e-cat is fully implemented then, with Rossi getting his merit, also Celani, Parkomov and others.
    And also to see that there were multiple attacks – China trying to get the E-Cats to copycat them and not paying for the license, the Saudies trying to buy the IP or the licenses, the Oil companies trying to stall it… and so.

    It would be the perfect scenario for a really incredible film.

    • Alex Fenrick

      Julio….I have not seen any information at all yet to even suggest the Saudis are considering the E-Cat in any shape or form. Do you have information we do not? That would be a tall conspiracy theory……

      • psi2u2

        What are the criteria for a “conspiracy theory”?

        Just wondering.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Psi…that was a little tongue-in-cheek as I am a skeptic on here lol..but actually I don’t consider the term to be as terrible as most do. For me though, conspiracy theory aligns with a theory that has VERY little evidence, or proof whether it be empirical or not…or not proof at all of course. I am guilty of some conspiracy theories in my life, but I treat them and label them as such. I haven’t seen even a shred of information that would tie Saudis to E-Cat…so it falls deeply into the conspiracy theory bin for me. Now that is not to say I would not quickly upgrade it if we had at least a breadcrumb to go on…but as of right now…we have nothing along that line of theory. Hope that made sense lol.

          • Eyedoc

            The breadcrumb is that the UK gov is very aware…. ie the Saudis are too….. its 2+2 sir

          • Alex Fenrick

            A the concept of “breadcrumb” by its very nature must have a path included….in the context of the Saudis….there is none. So no breadcrumb at this point ….

          • psi2u2

            Good point.

          • psi2u2

            According to Wikipedia, the term “conspiracy theory,” as used in America, has had a neutral connotation until the early 1960s, after which it became a term of dismissal or contempt. Hmmm…..In my other real life, I study a prominent historical question (my PhD was in the New York Times and the Chronicle of Higher Education), having published approximately a hundred articles (and one book) on topics related to it, about twenty in standard journals and the remainder in “movement” journals, one of which I edit.

            I am routinely and often very aggressively termed a “conspiracy theorist” by people who have not lifted a finger to really inquire about the issue, but know the answer already because they learned about it in the 5th grade and have not seriously considered an alternative since then, and find their assumptions backed by prevailing authority.

            My interest in LENR partly comes from following the dynamics of controversial subjects involving potential or actual “paradigm shifts.”

            You are correct that little direct and unambiguous evidence seems to connect the recent highly-highly publicized Saudi market moves to LENR. The best that one can say is that they would be consistent with some inside knowledge of LENR or other emerging tech that is hastening the end of the Oil Age.

            On the other hand, banks have been divesting oil assets at a remarkable rate over the past three or four years, and surely the Saudi move is tied to this. So, when we look at the bigger picture, there is, imho, quite a bit of evidence of underlying shifts in the market that portend something like LENR. That’s why I would not automatically reject the idea of a connection with terms like “conspiracy theory.”

            But thank you for your candid and thoughtful response. I always appreciate your comments.

          • Alex Fenrick

            Excellent perspective….I have been called the same all my life…rarely do I find anyone who actually understands the term. While I have stated I don’t really see a connection between LENR and the situation with the Saudis currently….I will say it would not surprise me in the least if they were working on projects in the LENR arena. They definitely see the writing on the wall and they do have talented scientists and engineers in that region. Thanks for your response!

          • psi2u2

            Ok, truth or dare: Why do people call *you* a conspiracy theorist?

          • Alex Fenrick

            Ahh now that is a fun question! Lets see….
            – my accusation of deep voter fraud in the US to a level that voting is probably irrelevant to who is “elected” in many if not all elections. (had some interesting inside info from a friend who used to work at Diebold to confirm at least some of my suspicions.)
            – my belief that there probably is some validity to at least one UFO sighting let alone many.
            – my belief that Area 51 does house something extremely significant….it may not be a crashed UFO…but something.
            – my believe that the primary reason we do not have a cure…and a good one… for numerous different variations of cancer is due to the fact that the big pharma and health industry have too large of a financial stake in cancer NOT being cured.
            – while I am a skeptic of the paranormal…I cannot deny having some odd experiences as a child as well as my family in my childhood home. While I have no clue what it is…I believe there may be something to what we call paranormal at some level.
            – Having a background in engineering…I have a hard time wrapping my head around ancient humans machining megaliths like those in Tiwanacu, Puma Punku, Sacsayhuamán, Baalbeck etc. to the insanely incredible precision and accuracy we find without “help” or some unknown technology.

            Those are a few topics that have caused some to call me crazy or a conspiracy theorist…and your gems? lol

          • psi2u2

            I see. Your list of sins is long, my son. 😉

            I agree that a lot of the things you name, including that the precision stonework in both new and old worlds, poses serious challenges to our conceptions of what these people were able to do or how they could do it.

            My master’s is in anthro so I have a pretty good understanding of a lot of the standard academic theories as well as the heretical alternatives.

            At the risk of being banned for off topic discussion, do you follow Posner’s
            “outrageous” astronomical dating for Tiwanacu? Or do you know that side of it?

          • Alex Fenrick

            I know the name…but have not come across any specifics on his dating of Tiwanacu. I guess I need to check that out for sure! My views are obviously and admittedly stuck right in the middle of the academic views and heretical….which is where I find it most fun and enjoyable to be! haha I must say I am jealous of your background in anthro….I went the engineering and physics route….

          • psi2u2

            He was one of the most serious early archaeologists on the site and determined by alleged archaeoastronomic alignments that the site was something like 20,000 BC, which is more than 15,000 years too early for any standard chronology. The “standard chronology” is based on radio carbon dates. This is, to me, like trying to date the great pyramid based on your discovery of a candy bar wrapper in the sand.

            Well, maybe not quite, but you get the point.

          • Alex Fenrick

            OHHH Man..this is deja-vu because I was just talking to a friend about the exact same topic regarding that site as well as a few others!! Instead of a candy bar wrapper….my example was a gum wrapper in the exact same context. haha I definitely plan to look up more on that. See…I complain about moderation…then the moderators let me and you go on a tangent to talk about pyramids…haha The moderators get gold marks back from me!

      • HS61AF91

        What spiked the Saudis and big oil in general to leave the oil field investment, and squeeze as much profit out now as possible? A good ‘conspiracy theory’ says the energy Catalyzer. Other wise a ‘peak oil’ ‘conspiracy theory’ might substitute, but I don’t think so. Think things like, Rossi is a clever dude, who has his Faith at heart, and will get the energy that defines the new peace in this world gently, gradually to fruition.

    • Eyedoc

      Sorry I’ve already claimed the story rights long ago 😉

  • Billy Jackson

    I can respect that stance. cautionary wait and see is perfectly acceptable when we talk about governments. They are aware of the ongoing debates at least..

    • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

      Yes, they are following the latest development with interest. And this is the key.
      If it were a fraud, then they would know it already.

      I hope that we get more info soon

      • Alex Fenrick

        Julio…how would they know its a fraud?

  • Billy Jackson

    I can respect that stance. cautionary wait and see is perfectly acceptable when we talk about governments. They are aware of the ongoing debates at least..

    • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

      Yes, they are following the latest development with interest. And this is the key.
      If it were a fraud, then they would know it already.

      I hope that we get more info soon

      • Alex Fenrick

        Julio…how would they know its a fraud?

  • One would wish they would approach the proposed theory of AGW with such zeal for the pursuit of ‘trvth’.

  • Montague Withnail

    You would get exactly the same answer if you asked them about Blacklight (or whatever it’s called now). Someone could give it a try and report back.

    My preference for UK Gov is to push them to fund research based on what open science there is out there. Guys like Peter Hagelstein in particular have some credibility in this field, they should be the starting point.

    We won’t get any kind of official DECC recognition until there is a genuinely credible independently reviewed and totally publicly available verification. That is only right and to be expected. That’s my biggest issue and source of doubt over Rossi, why wouldn’t he just use SGS or someone? It would have cost $100k tops, they would have signed a confidentiality agreement, and (if it’s real) he would have about 100x more credibility right now.

    • clovis ray

      Don’t you worry, Dr. R is not concerned with credibility, he’s fighting for his, cat.
      Honestly, if you can’t see, all the vultures lined up on the wire, well ‘you are being deceived
      Dr.R can’t peacefully work on very important things that will make our lives better,
      when he has to deal with this kind of well” ,a waste of time, and he values his time as he should.
      .

  • Montague Withnail

    You would get exactly the same answer if you asked them about Blacklight (or whatever it’s called now). Someone could give it a try and report back.

    My preference for UK Gov is to push them to fund research based on what open science there is out there. Guys like Peter Hagelstein in particular have some credibility in this field, they should be the starting point.

    We won’t get any kind of official DECC recognition until there is a genuinely credible independently reviewed and totally publicly available verification. That is only right and to be expected. That’s my biggest issue and source of doubt over Rossi, why wouldn’t he just use SGS or someone? It would have cost $100k tops, they would have signed a confidentiality agreement, and (if it’s real) he would have about 100x more credibility right now.

    • clovis ray

      Don’t you worry, Dr. R is not concerned with credibility, he’s fighting for his, cat.
      Honestly, if you can’t see, all the vultures lined up on the wire, well ‘you are being deceived
      Dr.R can’t peacefully work on very important things that will make our lives better,
      when he has to deal with this kind of well” ,a waste of time, and he values his time as he should.
      .

  • Bob Matulis

    No conspiracy can stop LENR if it is real. The West has plenty of enemies that will happily exploit a world changing technology. (Imagine if North Korea developed it just to make us look like idiots – it would be a PR coup for Kim Jong-un) I still have hopes but for me the jury is still out. Companies like Boston Dynamics (with their robots) would go to the next level with this tech.

    • Otto1923

      If it is real then it was a conspiracy that stopped Fleischmann and Pons.

      • sam

        It was likely stupidity that stopped
        Fleischmann and Pons.

        • Omega Z

          No, It was big physics bucks that stopped P&F

    • Alex Fenrick

      Bob is right. If LENR is real (and I am staying open to that possibility), neither this legal situation with Rossi nor any conspiracy will stop it. There are enough researchers and replicators trying to make progress in this field that it will come to fruition eventually if it is real. The cat is out of the bag (lol figuratively) and this is just a small bump in the road if it claims of LENR can ultimately be proven.

      • Bob Matulis

        Patents and trademarks doesn’t seem to be an impediment to China rolling out products!

        • Alex Fenrick

          Oh if LENR does end up being commercially viable…you can bet 100% that China will be pumping out low-grade dangerous versions day and night in sweatshops made by 7yr old kids. It’s the Chinese way! lol

      • Omega Z

        I don’t think it’s about stopping LENR.

        Just a 10 year delay. To be certain it is controlled by the chosen.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Omega…normally I would agree with you….but I see such drive among the smart people just on this site alone, let alone others that are slaving away in labs this moment working on LENR. I have a feeling that if someone can show honest independently-tested proof…there is a serious chance it could succeed. It really depends on the character of the person who discovers it…some are beautiful people who will change the world and will become rich as a side effect…others will side with greed and focus on the short term pay out..and possibly cause a 10 year delay. This one will probably be just as much about the scientist as it is the science. Just one skeptics perspective hehe

  • DrD

    If it doesn’t work they can always demand a refund and who knows, it might save them that postponed Hinkley point investment:
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/72536336-0a31-11e6-9456-444ab5211a2f.html#axzz46up2KFHz

    • GordonDocherty

      Exactly. Basic risk management.

    • Montague Withnail

      There is such a thing as credit risk. Maybe if Prof. Rossi were willing to keep the payment in Escrow it could work.

      The simpler thing however would just be to get a credible validation done. Until that happens, you really have to ask why anybody else should be getting involved.

      • Billy Jackson

        i think you were right in your first point above.. they are elected officials. and as such.. they are not willing to give their opponents ammunition to use against them when they “bet” on cold fusion. I wish it was as simple as a guaranteed money back situation..

      • NT

        I believe Rossi’s company uses the Escrow method on purchases for the 1MW plants until the customer is satisfied, but I could be wrong. I believe blogger Engineer48, here on record, has the correct answer as he claims to be in the process of purchasing one for a client…

  • hunfgerh

    Usually a product takes the following steps

    1. Development

    2. Independent confirmation (especial for unknown functions)

    3. Production approval for mass production

    4. Operating Licence for the public sector

    Even you take step 1-3

    4. Will be never approved due to nuclear concerns for the private sector.

    • DrD

      Ah but it’s not nuclear. We have it on the good authority of the high priests of the ruling scientific community and the USPO or at least they used to and no doubt not a few still do.

    • Observer

      Usually?

      Is there anything usual about any aspect of this story?

      • Billy Jackson

        outside of the cold fusion angle.. most of the pains that we are witnessing are self inflicted. Rossi has a right to protect his invention.. but he has made major mistakes along the way that have delayed or caused angst among his supporters.

        what i think Rossi needs is a firm business manager or project manager. from everything i have witnessed those just are not his area’s of expertise and as such we have to watch him stumble at times.. this process wont be without pain for us or him.

        • Jerry Soloman

          Top level manager on board is critical for Rossi at this juncture.

  • hunfgerh

    Usually a product takes the following steps

    1. Development

    2. Independent confirmation (especial for unknown functions)

    3. Production approval for mass production

    4. Operating Licence for the public sector

    Even you take step 1-3

    4. Will be never approved due to nuclear concerns for the private sector.

    • DrD

      Ah but it’s not nuclear. We have it on the good authority of the high priests of the ruling scientific community and the USPO or at least they used to and no doubt not a few still do.

      • USPO (USPS – post office) or USPTO?

        • Omega Z

          Leave him alone.
          He merely forgot to include trademark. 🙂

          • Clarity in thought is exhibited by clarity in its expression …

    • Observer

      Usually?

      Is there anything usual about any aspect of this story?

      • Billy Jackson

        outside of the cold fusion angle.. most of the pains that we are witnessing are self inflicted. Rossi has a right to protect his invention.. but he has made major mistakes along the way that have delayed or caused angst among his supporters.

        what i think Rossi needs is a firm business manager or project manager. from everything i have witnessed those just are not his area’s of expertise and as such we have to watch him stumble at times.. this process wont be without pain for us or him.

        • clovis ray

          Hi, Billy.
          I think he said just here lately, that he did indeed have the training for business management,
          Everyone ,makes mistakes, that’s how we learn, there is no one more capable, than Dr.R , he is actually doing just fine, I/H is dead stop, but Dr.R, is full throttle,
          Now he has two production lines, and industrial heat has none. and they will have to go we we we,all, the way home. lol

          • Alex Fenrick

            Clovis..do you have proof of these two production lines you speak of….or any production line at all?

        • Jerry Soloman

          Top level manager on board is critical for Rossi at this juncture.

        • “but he has made major mistakes along the way that have delayed”

          Examples please?

          • Billy Jackson

            Right off the top of my head since i am at work.

            His handling of the fuel for the Lugano test.
            The choice of independent evaluator for the 400 day test.

            both were bad choices and do nothing but cast doubt about the independence of the test itself.. (remember i am a rossi fan also so i am not blasting rossi from a skeptics point of view. but i am attempting to be realistic and try to see this from a point of view of someone who demands proof)

          • Omega Z

            I agree Rossi has made some missteps,

            On the otherhand,

            Look how far he has come and still standing.

          • Owen Geiger

            I disagree. Rossi clearly does not trust many people. Can’t blame him. IH turned out to be a pit of snakes. He’s up against trillion dollar industries, so obviously they are going to throw things at him to slow him down or stop progress.

            Also, some of Rossi’s actions such as the ones you’ve mentioned can be partly explained by his desire to cast doubt in competitor’s minds. Of course he could do 100% verifiable test if he wanted. However, that might get him killed. Rossi is still in the game and I trust his approach. Everyone loves to second guess Rossi, but I haven’t seen anyone smarter. No one else has accomplished what he has.

          • Billy Jackson

            Trust has been a major issue for Rossi. I think when you look at the potential of this technology all of us can understand why that is. IH and Rossi’s story does not match up, and the onus is on IH to prove what they say in my eyes. At some point Rossi is either going to have to sell a device that is public and works, or own up to a true independent evaluation that he’s no where near.

            I am a fan, I have much respect for Rossi and what he has accomplished so far. It rips at my heart what IH is doing to him. I refuse to dig into conspiracy theories without solid facts, not deductions or theories.. but solid verifiable facts.. so the challenge is to remove our emotions from the equation and see where things stand now. where did they go wrong, and what road do we see to recovery to move forward.

            The world needs this technology, in that i think we can all agree.

          • DrD

            and the one he just admitted to:

            QUOTE
            In past you already had written in this blog that you were working to
            make a massive production factory. It was more than three years ago.

            Cheers,

            Gene

            Andrea Rossi

            April 24, 2016 at 7:52 AM

            Gene:

            True. Then talks with Cherokee began in spring 2012, they were very
            serious and I changed strategy, because at those times I was convinced
            that Cherokee was really intentioned to make a big production concern,
            not a financial speculation. I was wrong.

            Warm Regards,

            A.R.

    • 5. Market must become adapted to completely new concept, like for refrigerators and radio/TV in their day.

  • hunfgerh
  • hunfgerh
  • Engineer48

    So the gov will not issue patents to protect LENR inventions but expects the inventors to fully disclose so anybody can replicate & they get nothing for their invention.

    Nice try but don’t think it will fly.

    • Jerry Soloman

      Correct the predator companies step in to create havic for the inventors and leave doors open for corporate machines to abuse the system.

    • Mike Henderson

      The alternative would be for the inventor to hand over a sealed device and allow others to evaluate that system’s inputs and outputs ony. A non-disclosure agreement forbids peaking inside the box. The contents of the box can remain secret, but the COP and any emissions (alpha particles, helium, gamma rays, neutrons, etc.) would be revealed.

  • Engineer48

    So the gov will not issue patents to protect LENR inventions but expects the inventors to fully disclose so anybody can replicate & they get nothing for their invention.

    Nice try but don’t think it will fly.

    • Jerry Soloman

      Correct the predator companies step in to create havic for the inventors and leave doors open for corporate machines to abuse the system.

      • One can go back to the days of radio and see what David Sarnoff did to competitors and new upstarts that threatened RCA’s business interests.

    • Mike Henderson

      The alternative would be for the inventor to hand over a sealed device and allow others to evaluate that system’s inputs and outputs ony. A non-disclosure agreement forbids peaking inside the box. The contents of the box can remain secret, but the COP and any emissions (alpha particles, helium, gamma rays, neutrons, etc.) would be revealed.

      • Consumer Reports magazine could do this …

    • Alex Fenrick

      I have to disagree completely. First of all the government has suggested independent testing as many of us have…they are not suggesting a full teardown and disclosure of every method and material…just proof of claim. This is also where NDA’s come in….they are quite solid in cases of this magnitude. It would not be out of the realm of normality in the least bit….

  • Montague Withnail

    You know that our government is run by politicians who are elected right?

    We also have transparency laws so that anything like that would have to be made completely pubic. They would be slaughtered in the media, it’s way too risky a thing as a government, but it wouldn’t hurt to have our academics do some research. All they need to do is put the funding out there, the faculties will soon come round to it.

  • scottlshman

    .

    Maybe the Saudi Arabians follow Andrea Rossi’s progress too.

    “Saudi Arabia is planning to establish a $2tn (£1.4tn) sovereign wealth fund by selling off its state petroleum assets in preparation for a world beyond oil.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/01/saudi-arabia-plans-to-sell-state-oil-assets-to-create-2tn-wealth-fund

    The UK government’s position is like that of a man who will only back a horse in a horse race if he is guaranteed to win.

    I remember reading that the first steam trains were written off as it was predicted that the pressure of air would kill people if the train travelled at over 30 mph.

    http://www.ikbrunel.org.uk/box-tunnel

    Meanwhile back at the ranch, Rossi’s 1 MW LENR plant customer has ordered another three 1 MW plants.

    .

  • Alex Fenrick

    Evidently the British Department of Energy and Climate Change is on my team of skeptics lol!!! But seriously it is interesting to see they share the perspective that us skeptics have been beating the drum over….just allow your tech to be independently verified…that’s all we ask. Nothing substantial at all here of course…just another interesting perspective.

    • Rossi Fan

      Get lost with this British Department of what-not. Government is a major part of the problem not the solution. Look at their response. They passed the ball over to the player next to them. Ciao amigo! Ask a synecure a silly question you will get a cover your behind response.

      Either way there was talk of e-cat producing some sort of radiation once in a blue moon. In Europe each and every country has a different health system which means you can’t sell the device in Europe until you go through the process N times. N = number of countries in the European Union. The funny thing about Europe however is they trust the US FDA to do a good job. Say you have US FDA approval and you have a green light in Europe. For this very reason these kinds of devices which produce radiation are certified with government officials in the United States first. Then European permission becomes a formality.

  • Alex Fenrick

    Evidently the British Department of Energy and Climate Change is on my team of skeptics lol!!! But seriously it is interesting to see they share the perspective that us skeptics have been beating the drum over….just allow your tech to be independently verified…that’s all we ask. Nothing substantial at all here of course…just another interesting perspective.

    • Rossi Fan

      Get lost with this British Department of what-not. Government is a major part of the problem not the solution. Look at their response. They passed the ball over to the player next to them. Ciao amigo! Ask a synecure a silly question you will get a cover your behind response.

      Either way there was talk of e-cat producing some sort of radiation once in a blue moon. In Europe each and every country has a different health system which means you can’t sell the device in Europe until you go through the process N times. N = number of countries in the European Union. The funny thing about Europe however is they trust the US FDA to do a good job. Say you have US FDA approval and you have a green light in Europe. For this very reason these kinds of devices which produce radiation are certified with government officials in the United States first. Then European permission becomes a formality.

      • Alex Fenrick

        Do you have examples of your claims you make at the end of your statement.?

        • Rossi Fan

          I worked for/work for the medical device industry. This information comes from people very familiar with how the system works. The market is the big boys: GE, Toshiba, Siemens, Phillps, etc. The small company can provide them with a half-baked idea or a fully ready package. The only market they care about (yes that includes Siemens and Phillips) is the US. This is not because of the size of the market because Europe is significant. The reason is because of the fragmented nature of the European national health systems.

          • Rossi Fan

            The first part you can look up in the FDA rules and regulations. Any device that produces any kind of what even remotely can be construed as radiation requires FDA approval to sell in the United States. You can use it all you want, you just cannot sell it. You cannot set up some sort of lead lining or shield to mitigate the radiation in order to avoid this process.

            The process costs several million dollars. Roughly as much as Rossi got for the 24 hour test. So he would not be up to doing this himself.

          • Obvious

            My XRF goes to safe, anyone can use it mode simply by bolting a nose section on that only allows it to work in a thin stainless steel “bread box” with a cheap “lid closed” switch. It fires 50 keV peak bremmstrahlung X-rays at the rate of about 1 million counts per second.
            With a password, I can switch it back to hand held mode. If I was a complete idiot, I could fire the total yearly maximum allowable full body dose of radiation, but concentrated into a spot the size of a dime, in less than a minute.

          • Alex Fenrick

            With all due respect, you did not answer my simple question….naming large companies is not an answer.

          • GordonDocherty

            For national health, you mean Health and Safety. National health is about medicine.

  • Alex Fenrick

    No offense, but that is just ludicrous to suggest that the British Government should buy a new controversial unproven technology on one man’s word. Even if they made a ridiculous leap of faith …do you honestly think Rossi would refund them not only for the plant…but the massive infrastructure and staffing cost etc etc?? There are so many other problems with this perspective..we could go on for hours…

    • Robert Dorr

      Do I think that Rossi would refund the money for the plant? Yes. Would he refund them for ancillary cost? Probably not. Do I think the British government has spent massive amounts of public funds on silly and stupid ideas. Absolutely. Do I consider Rossi’s 1 MW plant silly and stupid? No. Massive amounts of infrastructure and staffing to use a 1 MW thermal plant, now that is ludicrous.

    • cashmemorz

      True. Government, at this stage of non-acceptability of LENR, would have to do many things to make procurement appear to be acceptable. It is simpler to wait until the acceptability of LENR has risen to a certain, shall we say realistic, level in the market place and then procure one thru normal channels.

      • Omega Z

        Wait until a realistic, level in the market place.
        At which time it is pointless.

        Anyway, Governments aren’t usually very objective.

  • wizkid

    This is why you cannot drink Coca Cola in the UK ! Nobody has replicated it, so it does not really exist. yada yada yada. Do our trolls under the bridge here secretly drink Coca Cola? Or perhaps they simply wait for travelers to cross the bridge so they can eat their brains …

    • jimbo92107

      You want them to buy what’s in the bag, but you won’t show them what’s in the bag.

      • GordonDocherty

        No, take the bag, look in it, examine it, and if it is what you’ve been told, buy it, otherwise give it back. If we’re talking about bags, that is.

  • wizkid

    This is why you cannot drink Coca Cola in the UK ! Nobody has replicated it, so it does not really exist. yada yada yada. Do our trolls under the bridge here secretly drink Coca Cola? Or perhaps they simply wait for travelers to cross the bridge so they can eat their brains …

    • jimbo92107

      You want them to buy what’s in the bag, but you won’t show them what’s in the bag. This is a very old game with which the English are quite familiar.

      • Michael W Wolf

        The English lost an empire. They haven’t changed their mindset and are on a path to lose what they have left. No one to take England’s advice anymore.

        • No-one has taken the UK government’s advice for several decades – least of all the people of the UK.

      • GordonDocherty

        No, take the bag, look in it, examine it, and if it is what you’ve been told, buy it, otherwise give it back. If we’re talking about bags, that is.

    • MLTC

      You’re right! I only drank water from Themsen when I was in London. ;P

  • psi2u2

    What are the criteria for a “conspiracy theory”?

    Just wondering.

  • sam

    It was likely stupidity that stopped
    Fleischmann and Pons.

    • Omega Z

      No, It was big physics bucks that stopped P&F

  • They only discussed Rossi, not the other multitude of interest who have replicated LENR on commercially viable levels. Besides, the government will only respond after the UK bankers do.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      That’s the problem.
      Likely the “inquiry” was about Rossi, and NOT LENR in general. This is unfortunate,
      as the context should have been LENR. So their position on Rossi having a
      working LENR device is “narrow” minded, but as such their response is correct
      as they are talking about Rossi, and not LENR.

      No question DECC LOVED being able to make this response, and I can well assure such departments are WELL aware of the ramifications of this technology – it is a nightmare for
      them! In fact they can dump the climate change part if LENR is real!

      Taking a position against LENR is far more difficult, and DECC should have been challenged not on Rossi’, but on LENR.

      However, if the inquiry was about LENR and they did a bait and switch to Rossi, then that’s just a downright disgusting response.

      So it would be interesting to “note” how the inquiry was worded and asked – as context about Rossi is everything here.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • They only discussed Rossi, not the other multitude of interest who have replicated LENR on commercially viable levels. Besides, the government will only respond after the UK bankers do.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      That’s the problem.
      Likely the “inquiry” was about Rossi, and NOT LENR in general. This is unfortunate,
      as the context should have been LENR. So their position on Rossi having a
      working LENR device is “narrow” minded, but as such their response is correct
      as they are talking about Rossi, and not LENR.

      No question DECC LOVED being able to make this response, and I can well assure such departments are WELL aware of the ramifications of this technology – it is a nightmare for
      them! In fact they can dump the climate change part if LENR is real!

      Taking a position against LENR is far more difficult, and DECC should have been challenged not on Rossi’, but on LENR.

      However, if the inquiry was about LENR and they did a bait and switch to Rossi, then that’s just a downright disgusting response.

      So it would be interesting to “note” how the inquiry was worded and asked – as context about Rossi is everything here.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Billy Jackson

    Right off the top of my head since i am at work.

    His handling of the fuel for the Lugano test.
    The choice of independent evaluator for the 400 day test.

    both were bad choices and do nothing but cast doubt about the independence of the test itself.. (remember i am a rossi fan also so i am not blasting rossi from a skeptics point of view. but i am attempting to be realistic and try to see this from a point of view of someone who demands proof)

    • Omega Z

      I agree Rossi has made some missteps,

      On the otherhand,

      Look how far he has come and still standing.

    • Owen Geiger

      I disagree. Rossi clearly does not trust many people. Can’t blame him. IH turned out to be a pit of snakes. He’s up against trillion dollar industries, so obviously they are going to throw things at him to slow him down or stop progress.

      Also, some of Rossi’s actions such as the ones you’ve mentioned can be partly explained by his desire to cast doubt in competitor’s minds. Of course he could do 100% verifiable test if he wanted. However, that might get him killed. Rossi is still in the game and I trust his approach. Everyone loves to second guess Rossi, but I haven’t seen anyone smarter. No one else has accomplished what he has.

      • Billy Jackson

        Trust has been a major issue for Rossi. I think when you look at the potential of this technology all of us can understand why that is. IH and Rossi’s story does not match up, and the onus is on IH to prove what they say in my eyes. At some point Rossi is either going to have to sell a device that is public and works, or own up to a true independent evaluation that he’s no where near.

        I am a fan, I have much respect for Rossi and what he has accomplished so far. It rips at my heart what IH is doing to him. I refuse to dig into conspiracy theories without solid facts, not deductions or theories.. but solid verifiable facts.. so the challenge is to remove our emotions from the equation and see where things stand now. where did they go wrong, and what road do we see to recovery to move forward.

        The world needs this technology, in that i think we can all agree.

    • DrD

      and the one he just admitted to:

      QUOTE
      In past you already had written in this blog that you were working to
      make a massive production factory. It was more than three years ago.

      Cheers,

      Gene

      Andrea Rossi

      April 24, 2016 at 7:52 AM

      Gene:

      True. Then talks with Cherokee began in spring 2012, they were very
      serious and I changed strategy, because at those times I was convinced
      that Cherokee was really intentioned to make a big production concern,
      not a financial speculation. I was wrong.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • Sean

    Now you’ve done it. The last people I would mention LENR, to would be the government. They are a funny bunch you know. Not scientific and mostly made of ego seeking lawyers and accountants. Look at the mess they make. Best keep it to ourselves. We are smarter than them lot. We the people shall look after and support LENR research. They ignored Frank Whittles Jet engine. They called the Harrier jet a toy. They saw no future for British engineering and as a result there is very little left in the UK. No Concords, no super VC-10s, no space launch vehicles, depletion of the armed forces with brand new smashed up Nimrods. Privatising vital services for profit. Many an Engineer left the UK throughout the 50’s 60’s like my father whom left for a better life. Let Rossi get on with his invention and develop his own market. I am sure that with our group and public backing, LENR will come to fruition without government meddling. They do write eloquently don’t they?. Don’t trust them. I like to say people power. Lets hope LENR gets into manufacture as soon as possible. Wish all cold fusion researchers the best of success.

    • I agree. The UK government is unlikely to play any significant part in Rossi’s story. However, as far as the response to JNM’s enquiry goes, we should remember that they will be receiving many similar enquiries, and the response is just a neutral ‘boilerplate’ they have developed over the years to indicate that they are aware but won’t get too excited until proof is served up to them on a plate.

      The current standard response has at least moved on from the 2012 verson that was published on this blog (http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/06/21/uk-dept-of-energy-climate-change-comments-on-lenr/ ). I received an almost identical response to another enquiry a year later.

      Officials at DECC are aware that there are a number of reactor designs and technologies proposed for operation around the world however industry has not indicated that they would be looking to deploy them in the UK. Ultimately, it is for industry to decide what type of technology or fuel to use in its future reactor systems and as yet no proposals or arguments to develop cold fusion technology have been put forward.

      We understand that both Industry and a majority of the scientific community view the claims of the University of Bologna with some significant scepticism, particularly towards whether a nuclear process is taking place. Guiseppe Levi, who arranged a demonstration of Andrea Rossi’s experiment at Bologna, has concluded that more experiments are needed to ascertain what processes are occurring.

      We will continue to maintain a watching brief on this and a number of other technologies but we do not see this as a priority area for research, in the context of constrained budgets.

      Gordon Docherty received a slightly more personal response from the then Energy Minister, Ed Davey in Jan 2015, which was also copied here (http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/01/21/uk-energy-and-climate-change-secretary-on-governments-current-lenr-stance/ ).

      http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Ed-Davey-LENR-Redacted-Addresses.jpg

      Some people in government are a little more active though, and the DECC is currently collecting submissions from the public and interested parties about ‘disruptive’ energy technologies, to be passed to a parliamentary committee for investigation. This was briefly covered on this blog. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/06/uk-consults-on-energy-revolution/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiM-szHpK7MAhXHJsAKHbCVB6oQFggRMAQ&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNF64q2fImBpH_m_7dJc_FuTlDodcQ

      As there is still no product on offer from Rossi, I submitted some information about the GEC GeNiE reactor, which uses a LENR ‘core’ to trigger fission in sub-critical nuclear fuels such as depleted uranium (no response received). There are a few recent posts about this on the Always Open thread: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/26/always-open-e-cat-world-thread/#comment-2624069330

    • DrD

      Well said!
      But eloquent? haven’t you noticed the contradiction?
      They will do nothing until it’s verified and if it is then they won’t use it. They will give it to the Science Research Council. Hmmm isn’t that a bit late for the SRC once it’s proven technolgy, I mean now is the time for any research group to be working on it, not afterwards and isn’t it patented?

  • Omega Z

    Leave him alone.
    He merely forgot to include trademark. 🙂

    • Clarity in thought is exhibited by clarity in its expression …

  • GordonDocherty

    Instead of “unverifiable”, that should be “not yet verified”. Unverifiable means it can never be verified, whereas not yet verified means it can be – in fact, the UK government could buy an e-Cat system or two and do just that: the cost of two 1MW e-Cats is loose change out of £18Bn – £24Bn (£18,000,000,000 – £24,000,000,000). £100M is between 0.42% and 0.556% of the cost of Hinkley Point C, or 0.42% of the £24Bn being paid for Crossrail 2, or 0.3% of the cost of the Trident replacement – and they would likely have to pay a lot less than that. Or, they can lose any competitive advantage and miss the boat. They only need to be brave. Oh, dear…

    • Brokeeper

      It’s unverifiable if holding a sack of gold in both hands.

    • GordonDocherty

      forgot to mention restoration and renewal of the Houses of Parliament – estimated cost, £6Bn. If only they had some money to, you know, improve the world or something, like £11.4Bn in overseas aid, then they could even use some of that – cheap electricity, heat, clean water for all. Ah, well, if only…

      • bkrharold

        The hot air coming out from the Houses Of Parliament could be a new source of limitless energy for Britain.

    • DrD

      All very true and what about the Hot fusion research budget?
      I think “unverifiable” is more correct though, considering how many verifications have been made and found to be not acceptable. For something so “earth shattering” the opponents will always manage to find grounds for objection. AR is right, just mass produce but it still worries me “they” will find a way to stop or delay it.

  • GordonDocherty

    Instead of “unverifiable”, that should be “not yet verified”. Unverifiable means it can never be verified, whereas not yet verified means it can be – in fact, the UK government could buy an e-Cat system or two and do just that: the cost of two 1MW e-Cats is loose change out of £18Bn – £24Bn (£18,000,000,000 – £24,000,000,000). £100M is between 0.42% and 0.556% of the cost of Hinkley Point C, or 0.42% of the £24Bn being paid for Crossrail 2, or 0.3% of the cost of the Trident replacement – and they would likely have to pay a lot less than that. Or, they can lose any competitive advantage and miss the boat. They only need to be brave. Oh, dear…

    • Brokeeper

      It’s unverifiable if holding a sack of gold in both hands.

    • GordonDocherty

      forgot to mention restoration and renewal of the Houses of Parliament – estimated cost, £6Bn. If only they had some money to, you know, improve the world or something, like £11.4Bn in overseas aid, then they could even use some of that – cheap electricity, heat, clean water for all. Ah, well, if only…

      • bkrharold

        The hot air coming out from the Houses Of Parliament could be a new source of limitless energy for Britain.

    • DrD

      All very true and what about the Hot fusion research budget?
      I think “unverifiable” is more correct though, considering how many verifications have been made and found to be not acceptable. For something so “earth shattering” the opponents will always manage to find grounds for objection. AR is right, just mass produce but it still worries me “they” will find a way to stop or delay it.

  • bachcole

    I never allow some authority to convince me that something is impossible, unverifiable, unproven, discredited, untrue, etc. etc. etc. Every single step forward in the history of the world was seen as impossible by some if not all “authorities”.

    • Mike Rion

      And also by people not effected positively by the results. Never underestimate the negative influence of those who can be damaged by the outcome. I have personal experience with this phenomena dating back nearly 35 years in Los Angeles with one Dr. Gerald Schafflander and Consumers Solar Electric Power Corporation (CSEP).

      • bachcole

        Is there a story coming next after this teaser or are you just going to leave us hanging?

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Maybe they’re fed up with professors. We should tell them he’s
    not one of those.

  • Eyedoc

    Hope you’re right Clovis

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “British Department of Energy and Climate Change”.

    Which definition of change are they referring to here?
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/change?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “British Department of Energy and Climate Change”.

    Which definition of change are they referring to here?
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/change?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic

  • Robert Dorr

    You say fringe, I call it a thermal plant, plain and simple, albeit a new type. It’s 10 million dollars, government chicken feed. How about the 12 billion pounds the British government spent on the NHS I.T. system that was never implemented. When you speak of Rossi’s 1 MW thermal plant, it’s in a single shipping container. How many hundreds of workers can you put in a shipping container? You would simply be interfacing the plant into an existing thermal plant. How many hundreds are going to be needed to stand around and watch that in operation. You can say it would take a ‘massive’ amount but I disagree.

  • toodorky

    What else is to be expected from an entity still glued to the oil and gas industry

  • toodorky

    What else is to be expected from an entity still glued to the oil and gas industry

  • cashmemorz

    Its not the monetary costs but the political costs. Its too early to be risking anything like party image by latching into something as obscure, controversial and unproven as LENR. Here is where “getting used to the thought of something as revolutionary as LENR” starts.

    • DrD

      That but more so is the disruption and repercussions of replacing (or scrapping) all the existing systems and infrastructure, especially oil based. Just imagine the losses if we no longer needed nuclear or oil or coal, solar or wind. All those careers and investments down the drain. What about the pension funds.

  • Timar

    They may be aware of it, but the obviously don’t pay any closer attention. Otherwise they wouldn’t address Rossi as “professor”.

    • That honorific seems to creep into a number of ‘free energy’ blogs, so these are apparently the main source of information for the DECC.

  • Mike Rion

    And also by people not effected positively by the results. Never underestimate the negative influence of those who can be damaged by the outcome. I have personal experience with this phenomena dating back nearly 35 years in Los Angeles with one Dr. Gerald Schafflander and Consumers Solar Electric Power Corporation (CSEP).

  • Timar

    They may be aware of it, but the obviously don’t pay any closer attention. Otherwise they wouldn’t address Rossi as “professor”.

    • That honorific seems to creep into a number of ‘free energy’ blogs, so these are apparently the main source of information for the DECC.

  • DrD

    SO
    1) It’s unverifiable.
    2) Even if it is verified we wouldn’t dream of using this “miracle” to replace fossil fuels and other nasties so we’ll bury. We’ll pretend were interested and give it to the SRC to play with for 15 years.
    They might publish some interesting papers and who knows, they might even invent cold fusion.

    I mean can you imagine what we’ll do with all that investement in coal, oil fired, nuclear power stations, Hot fusion research, and the 25 years of SOLAR PV and wind grants that we’re commited to oh and then there’s the unemployed tanker drivers and —— OH DEAR, BURY IT!

    • Civil service pen pushers/keyboard tappers. Do what the Minister says, and don’t rock the boat. Against that background, their utterances on CF are positively enthusiastic!

    • Montague Withnail

      Where do get point 2 from? That’s the opposite of what they said.

  • DrD

    SO
    1) It’s unverifiable.
    2) Even if it is verified we wouldn’t dream of using this “miracle” to replace fossil fuels and other nasties so we’ll bury it. We’ll pretend were interested and give it to the SRC to play with for 15 years.
    They might publish some interesting papers and who knows, they might even invent cold fusion.

    I mean can you imagine what we’ll do with all that investement in coal, oil fired, nuclear power stations, Hot fusion research, and the 25 years of SOLAR PV and wind grants that we’re commited to oh and then there’s the unemployed tanker drivers and —— OH DEAR, BURY IT!

    • Civil service pen pushers/keyboard tappers. Do what the Minister says, and don’t rock the boat if you want to keep your job. Against that background, their utterances on CF are positively enthusiastic!

    • Montague Withnail

      Where do get point 2 from? That’s the opposite of what they said.

  • I agree. The UK government is unlikely to play any significant part in Rossi’s story. However, as far as the response to JNM’s enquiry goes, we should remember that they will be receiving many similar enquiries, and the response is just a neutral ‘boilerplate’ they have developed over the years to indicate that they are aware but won’t get too excited until proof is served up to them on a plate.

    The current standard response has at least moved on from the 2012 verson that was published on this blog (http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/06/21/uk-dept-of-energy-climate-change-comments-on-lenr/ ). I received an almost identical response to another enquiry a year later.

    Officials at DECC are aware that there are a number of reactor designs and technologies proposed for operation around the world however industry has not indicated that they would be looking to deploy them in the UK. Ultimately, it is for industry to decide what type of technology or fuel to use in its future reactor systems and as yet no proposals or arguments to develop cold fusion technology have been put forward.

    We understand that both Industry and a majority of the scientific community view the claims of the University of Bologna with some significant scepticism, particularly towards whether a nuclear process is taking place. Guiseppe Levi, who arranged a demonstration of Andrea Rossi’s experiment at Bologna, has concluded that more experiments are needed to ascertain what processes are occurring.

    We will continue to maintain a watching brief on this and a number of other technologies but we do not see this as a priority area for research, in the context of constrained budgets.

    Gordon Docherty received a slightly more personal response from the then Energy Minister, Ed Davey in Jan 2015, which was also copied here (http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/01/21/uk-energy-and-climate-change-secretary-on-governments-current-lenr-stance/ ).

    http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Ed-Davey-LENR-Redacted-Addresses.jpg

    Some people in government are a little more active though, and the DECC is currently collecting submissions from the public and interested parties about ‘disruptive’ energy technologies, to be passed to a parliamentary committee for investigation. This was briefly covered on this blog. https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/06/uk-consults-on-energy-revolution/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiM-szHpK7MAhXHJsAKHbCVB6oQFggRMAQ&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNF64q2fImBpH_m_7dJc_FuTlDodcQ

    As there is still no conclusive evidence for Rossi’s devices, I submitted some information about the GEC GeNiE reactor, which uses a LENR ‘core’ to trigger fission in sub-critical nuclear fuels such as depleted uranium (no response received).

  • DrD

    Well said!
    But eloquent? haven’t you noticed the contradiction?
    They will do nothing until it’s verified and if it is then they won’t use it. They will give it to the Science Research Council. Hmmm isn’t that a bit late for the SRC once it’s proven technolgy, I mean now is the time for any research group to be working on it, not afterwards and isn’t it patented?

  • georgehants

    What an insane situation, if Gates or any other so called benefactor gave a damn about people or the World then he would give Mr. Rossi one billion dollars/pounds to publish every detail about his Cold Fusion etc. (if genuine)
    Throw any stupid patents in the rubbish and just care about people.
    Set him up in a fully equipped laboratory for all his future open work.
    Set Cold Fusion free for all to benefit now.
    All this wasted talk, talk, talk, as if the situation should be taken seriously.
    It simply reflects the insanity of the system that we have allowed to rule our lives.

    • cashmemorz

      Complex systems evolve in strange ways. Our (human) history is very complex and depends on a multitude of factors, man-made and environmental, most of which we are barely beginning to come to grips with. To say it should be otherwise ,at this time is mostly wishfull thinking. We seem to be given to aggression and so have wars, adverserial court systems, highly competitive commerce, the list goes on.

      • georgehants

        cash, so True and some of us work for change, even as you say that may be no more than ” wishfull thinking”

      • bkrharold

        So basically what you are saying is that it is human nature at the root of these problems, and that nothing will change until we evolve spiritually.

    • radvar

      No funds for unicorn powered treadmills, either.

      Rossi did take money, and it ended up in a squabble. Since he’s critical path, giving him more money won’t speed things up either. You can only get so many people around a rugby ball.

  • georgehants

    What an insane situation, if Gates or any other so called benefactor, government, (joke) gave a damn about people or the World then he would give Mr. Rossi one billion dollars/pounds to publish every detail about his Cold Fusion etc. (if genuine)
    Throw any stupid patents in the rubbish and just care about people.
    Set him up in a fully equipped laboratory for all his future open work.
    Set Cold Fusion free for all to benefit now.
    All this wasted talk, talk, talk, as if the situation should be taken seriously.
    It simply reflects the insanity of the system that we have allowed to rule our lives.

    • bachcole

      Unless of course they did not believe in cold fusion or did not think that it was ready to blossom or a whole bunch of other things.

    • cashmemorz

      Complex systems evolve in strange ways. Our (human) history is very complex and depends on a multitude of factors, man-made and environmental, most of which we are barely beginning to come to grips with. To say it should be otherwise ,at this time is mostly wishfull thinking. We seem to be given to aggression and so have wars, adverserial court systems, highly competitive commerce, the list goes on.

      • georgehants

        cash, so True and some of us work for change, even as you say that may be no more than ” wishfull thinking”

      • bkrharold

        So basically what you are saying is that it is human nature at the root of these problems, and that nothing will change until we evolve spiritually.

    • enantiomer2000

      Why would any sane person give Rossi 1 billion dollars? He has not conclusively demonstrated anything. Now his disagreement with IH casts even more doubt upon his credibility. The UK govt is doing everything right. There are crack-pot inventors claiming super energy technologies all over the world.

      • Ciaranjay

        It is top secret but the UK government has no money for LENR because they gave it all to Orbo. Win some, lose some.

  • psi2u2

    According to Wikipedia, the term “conspiracy theory,” as used in America, was had a neutral connotation until the early 1960s, after which it became a term of dismissal or contempt. Hmmm…..In my other real life, I study a prominent historical question (my PhD was in the New York Times and the Chronicle of Higher Education), having published approximately a hundred articles (and one book) on topics related to it, about twenty in standard journals and the remainder in “movement” journals, one of which I edit.

    I am routinely and often very aggressively termed a “conspiracy theorist” by people who have not lifted a finger to really inquire about the issue.

    My interest in LENR partly comes from following the dynamics of controversial subjects involving potential or actual “paradigm shifts.”

    You are correct that little direct and unambiguous evidence connects the recent highly-highly publicized Saudi market moves to LENR. The best that one can say is that they would be consistent with some inside knowledge of LENR or other emerging tech. that is hastening the end of the Oil Age.

    On the other hand, banks have been divesting oil assets at a remarkable rate over the past three or four years, and surely the Saudi move is tied to this. So, when we look at the bigger picture, there is, imho, quite a bit of evidence of underlying shifts in the market that portend something like LENR. That’s why I would not automatically reject the idea of a connection with terms like “conspiracy theory.”

    But thank you for your candid and thoughtful response. I always appreciate your comments.

  • bkrharold

    If so they would probably have said just that. LENR proponents have little influence and no political power. They British government has no need to make any concessions. I take this statement at its face value, which is actually quite positive. We already know that the US government has done secret work on LENR, but has refused to endorse it, or even admit their own findings. You may remember a government researcher who spoke out of turn a few months ago. He was quickly silenced, and no more has been heard from him. He is probably in Guantanamo now.

  • No-one has taken the UK government’s advice for several decades – least of all the people of the UK.

  • psi2u2

    I see. Your list of sins is long, my son. 😉

    I agree that a lot of the things you name, including that the precision stonework in both new and old worlds, poses serious challenges to our conceptions of what these people were able to do or how they could do it.

    My master’s is in anthro so I have a pretty good understanding of a lot of the standard academic theories as well as the heretical alternatives.

    At the risk of being banned for off topic discussion, do you follow Posner’s
    “outrageous” astronomical dating for Tiwanacu? Or do you know that side of it?

    • Alex Fenrick

      I know the name…but have not come across any specifics on his dating of Tiwanacu. I guess I need to check that out for sure! My views are obviously and admittedly stuck right in the middle of the academic views and heretical….which is where I find it most fun and enjoyable to be! haha I must say I am jealous of your background in anthro….I went the engineering and physics route….

      • psi2u2

        He was one of the most serious early archaeologists on the site and determined by alleged archaeoastronomic alignments that the site was something like 20,000 BC, which is more than 15,000 years too early for any standard chronology. The “standard chronology” is based on radio carbon dates. This is, to me, like trying to date the great pyramid based on your discovery of a candy bar wrapper in the sand.

        Well, maybe not quite, but you get the point.

  • Please move on!
    Nothing to see here.
    YET.

  • Please move on!
    Nothing to see here.
    YET.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    or let them play too…

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Our western world democracies seem to be quasi-bankrupt.

    Talking about the world’s political equilibrium, Torkel Nygren’s Sifferkoll has a sombering closing comment in his blog: “What is the use of owning a cheap eCat if we are all off fighting world war 3.”
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/excellent-geopolitical-lenr-analysis-by-doug-marker/

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    Our western world democracies seem to be quasi-bankrupt.

    Talking about the world’s political equilibrium, Torkel Nygren’s Sifferkoll has a sombering closing comment in his blog: “What is the use of owning a cheap eCat if we are all off fighting world war 3.”
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/excellent-geopolitical-lenr-analysis-by-doug-marker/

  • e-dog

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160428-the-secretive-billionaire-backed-plans-to-harness-fusion

    If only Roosi could get his act together, every day he doesnt share his knowledge erodes away at my belief that he has something. His caginess and unwillingness to release his technology (then suit for royalties if users of his ecats dont want to pay him license fees) is potentially harming the planet.

    Climate change is real and its going to hurt more or less because every day counts. I dont think Rossi has a solution at all, because no real caring human being on this planet could with-hold a secret that could save the world, could they?

    What was that bit in the bible about snakes and forbidden knowledge?
    Roosi is treading a fine line here, angels and demons, which will he choose to be?

    Enough ranting. .. one more thing, I wish there was a world wide law that if anyone copied his tech or improved his tech and then made money off it, they should be expected or made to pay fair royalties to him. Its only fair. But I really dont think he has anything… otherwise he would have proper investors and ecats out there right now.

    • Montague Withnail

      Why doesn’t he just conduct a credible verification? That’s all it would take, he wouldn’t have to reveal any secret sauce, just energy in v energy out, small scale (a few kw would be ideal) for as long as it takes to show definitely not a chemical reaction (should be a few days at most).

      – Simple calorimetry.
      – Properly independent and properly credible adjudicators
      – Fully videoed and documented
      – Zero interference from Rossi. Just a sealed reactor and a set of instructions.

      That’s all it would take, very simple stuff. For me he has zitch until we see that, but I’m a huge fan of MFMP who take the polar opposite approach.

  • e-dog

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160428-the-secretive-billionaire-backed-plans-to-harness-fusion

    If only Roosi could get his act together, every day he doesnt share his knowledge erodes away at my belief that he has something. His caginess and unwillingness to release his technology (then suit for royalties if users of his ecats dont want to pay him license fees) is potentially harming the planet.

    Climate change is real and its going to hurt more or less because every day counts. I dont think Rossi has a solution at all, because no real caring human being on this planet could with-hold a secret that could save the world, could they?

    What was that bit in the bible about snakes and forbidden knowledge?
    Roosi is treading a fine line here, angels and demons, which will he choose to be?

    Enough ranting. .. one more thing, I wish there was a world wide law that if anyone copied his tech or improved his tech and then made money off it, they should be expected or made to pay fair royalties to him. Its only fair. But I really dont think he has anything… otherwise he would have proper investors and ecats out there right now.

    • Montague Withnail

      Why doesn’t he just conduct a credible verification? That’s all it would take, he wouldn’t have to reveal any secret sauce, just energy in v energy out, small scale (a few kw would be ideal) for as long as it takes to show definitely not a chemical reaction (should be a few days at most).

      – Simple calorimetry.
      – Properly independent and properly credible adjudicators
      – Fully videoed and documented
      – Zero interference from Rossi. Just a sealed reactor and a set of instructions.

      That’s all it would take, very simple stuff. For me he has zitch until we see that, but I’m a huge fan of MFMP who take the polar opposite approach.

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    The Netherlands has just followed Belgium in its decision to
    supply the entire national population with iodine pills. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/30/netherlands-to-hand-out-iodine-pills-in-case-of-nuclear-accident
    Is UK to follow suit?
    Is this really going to be the best governments can do to protect people?

  • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

    The Netherlands has just followed Belgium in its decision to
    supply the entire national population with iodine pills. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/30/netherlands-to-hand-out-iodine-pills-in-case-of-nuclear-accident
    Is UK to follow suit?
    Is this really going to be the best governments can do to protect people?

  • Allan Shura

    If this is the position of the British then they ignore the US Patent office granting of the
    patent to a working technology and are deniers mirroring the Royal Academy of
    of Sciences initial unfounded denials of Faraday in the 19th century.

  • roseland67

    If they are referring to Rossi’s experiments being @unverifiable” than I understand completely.
    Otoh, if they are referring to LENR, then I think
    They may be doing some misinformation

  • roseland67

    If they are referring to Rossi’s experiments being “unverifiable” than I understand completely.
    Otoh, if they are referring to LENR, then I think
    They may be doing some misinformation

  • Gareth Hughes

    Things have moved on, follow Rossi NOW:
    http://rossilivecat.com/