Update from me356 on LENR Testing (Update: Some Pictures Posted)

LENR researcher going by the name of me356 has been posting periodic updates on the LENR-Forum about his LENR work. Here’s the latest comment at this thread: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/

I have tested plasma based reactor for longer period of time.. Results are clear. Unfortunately the power that is under the lid is so strong I will probably not continue in this area. Reactor is emmiting neutrons a few days after the test!

With lithium COP might be exceptionally higher. Very rough estimate is COP of 10-50.
But I am not skilled enough to be absolutely sure about safety which is reason why I will continue with reactors that are more safe. Emmissions (RF, electrons and UV) during the test were so strong that my control circuit was absolutely crazy even that it was 3 meters away – it is unusable.

Now I am playing with dangerous things that are clearly working.

I am afraid, but LENR is not safe as it looked initially. You can make a nuclear reactor with all the things you really don’t want.
Fortunately it can’t get out of control so easily. If power output is limited, you are safe.
But there will be probably always some kind of potentionally harmfull radiation. Fuel and fuel chamber must be very clean from impurities to not get unwanted products.

Now I understand perfectly why Rossi is working on the e-cat so long. You have something that is working, you have a prototypes and you are nearly ready for mass production. Then you will find something amazing, that can increase the excess heat significantly so that previous work is not important anymore. But there are again many difficulties and unknown things that it can take a few years to get a fully working prototype based on the new discoveries, but it is surely worth. You can continue endlessly, because LENR is opening doors of something completely unknown and much more. not just energy conversion. It is possible that in 10 years, everything will be completely different.

His references to Andrea Rossi’s work are interesting because Rossi reported that it was possible to get very active results, but it was important to keep them under control to ensure safe operation. It’s interesting that me356 is reporting the generation of neutrons, which Bob Greenyer also reported in the latest Glowstick test. Mats Lewan reported in his An Impossible Invention book that in one early highly active experiment, neutrons were detected in the neutron detector. See more on that here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/17/neutron-detection-and-the-e-cat/

UPDATE: Me356 has posted some pictures of one of his reactors here: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=18702#post18702

  • Engineer48

    What part of “low energy NUCLEAR REACTION” is not understood?! A LENR reactor is a NUCLEAR REACTOR! OK maybe lower energy than inside a star but still a NUCLEAR REACTOR!

    Why is this hard to understand? Get it wrong and get toasted by radiation.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      So far, nothing is understood. There are dozens of different theories and hypotheses, none of which has been confirmed yet. Finding the correct theory would presumably require many years of basic research by institutions around the world. That’s an unfortunate situation since you cannot estimate the risk reliably as long as you only guess what might be going on.

      • Engineer48

        Sorry but don’t agree.

        I have a NASA contract that tells me multiple US gov labs have Rossi like reactors delivering direct electricity generation.

        Look at the Rossi/IH contract. Clause 1. What do you read about Italian military applications?

        • “I have a NASA contract that tells me multiple US gov labs have Rossi like reactors delivering direct electricity generation.”

          Bold statement. Care to elaborate?

          • Engineer48

            Read clause 1 in the Rossi/IH contract.

          • Don’t have it in front of me. Are you referring to the “except for military uses in Italy” thing?

          • Engineer48

            Yup. Ask yourself why that is there and where did the 1st 1MW reactor really go?

          • Yeah. I must admit that I assumed the same or similar. But it’s still just an assumption — an educated guess.

          • Engineer48

            Sure. But ask yourself why that statement was in a US contract?

            My best guess is Rossi is legally obligated to ensure that clause exists in every executed contract. I’m sure you understand what that implies.

          • Agreed on the likelihood. Would be nice to prove.

          • Engineer48

            Maybe one day.

          • Engineer48

            My source is one I 100% believe and has proved to me to be 100% correct.

          • But that doesn’t help the rest of us. You’re an anonymous poster with an anonymous source.

            Any chance you or your source can leak something we can chew on? A paper here or a presentation there?

            EDIT: oh I see that you probably meant “contact” and not “contract.” Still interesting but a little less eye-popping.

          • Engineer48

            Both Frank & Mats know my identity. So not so unknown.

          • OK then, next logical step…

            Frank (or Mats) can you vouch for the assertion that Engineer48 would be likely to have a reliable source within NASA based on his identity?

          • Engineer48

            Geesh. NASA has publicly declared it is working on LENR tech. Suggest you try a few Google searches.

          • No disrespect intended. I’m just not taking anything at face value these days. Too much intentional disinformation floating around.

          • Engineer48

            NASA have designed a SSTO (Single Stage To Orbit) LENR powered spaceplane. They don’t waste engineering hours & $$ chasing ghosts.

          • Yes I’m aware of some of the supporters within NASA and the analysis they’ve done assuming LENR+ is real.

            But it’s never been crystal clear that they had any direct evidence. Maybe they were just like many of us here: persuaded by the preponderance of the evidence. But you are claiming working reactors in many US labs. That’s a whole other ballgame. It’s always made sense to me that the US gov’t would be all over this if it really worked especially since we’re aware of their early involvement.

            The US gov’t stepping in and telling Industrial Heat to cool the engines could also explain the bizarre 11th hour abandonment of Rossi… but I digress.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            And for what reason would NASA not make this knowledge public then? They are not some secret military institution but a public funded institution with the paying public having rights to know where they are spending such taxpayers money.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Omega Z

            Army, Navy, Air Force, NASA.

            Make no distinction, NASA’s origins are military.. Their all interelated and all have NSA concerns. NASA shares lab buildings and even lab work with the above.

          • olbab

            The best reason I’ve seen was that ANY further upset to the already-teetering oil scene makes the the blood run cold in many quarters, and certainly not just the fossil fuel players. There is a strong liklihood that the coming financial crash will come immediately -and much much worse- if cold fusion bursts on the scene. If my source has it right (an article “somewhere” -sorry, no memory), this is HUGELY scary. Think collapse of many oil producing countries, followed by stresses the wonks in Washington can’t counteract, pushing US’s crazily stretched system over the edge. This prospect (IF seen by enough wonks) would certainly result in secret pressure on NASA, IH, many others, to stuff it down hard.

            Big IF there, but if you’re into conspiracy you already know the ‘secret government’ knows everything…

            Obama, if he has the kind of competent advice we all wish every president had, wouldn’t hesitate. He knows a crash before this fall would put the Donald in the saddle.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          I think you misunderstood my comment. To know how to build a working device is not the same as understanding how it exactly works. You can certainly build many things without understanding the underlying principles, but there might arise problems when it comes to such dangerous things like nuclear reactions.

        • Alex Fenrick

          Engineer…forgive me…but you can’t possibly expect us to not question your claim of your NASA contract. If you do have such a contract, please show us something to validate that claim specifically due to extraordinary nature. If you are not being honest with that claim, you are doing much disservice to your credibility as well as the discussion at hand. I am not trying to be antagonistic….but you must admit that is a very bold extraordinary claim to just drop like its a napkin….call me out if I am off base on this….

        • Fibber McGourlick

          Do you mean “contract” or “contact” . I think you meant to say “contact”.

      • Engineer48

        99% of theories are worthless as they have no engineering backup.

        Show me, as an engineer, excess heat and I will make a large scale reactor a reality.

        Engineers built our world. Never forget that.

        • sam

          Let’s give some credit to the
          Labourers

          • Roger Roger

            Do you also think this is technologically advanced alchemy, which requires entanglement with a somewhat “clean”, “aligned” operator to be successful?

        • Anon2012_2014

          “Show me … excess heat and I will make a large scale reactor a reality.”

          This is the truth. The theories of what happens on the subatomic scale are meaningless. The proof is in the excess heat for the amount of inputs, i.e. in the thermodynamics. The theory can catch up later.

          I don’t see from any of these experiments incontrovertible evidence of significant excess heat (>50 watts or so as not to be mistaken) beyond chemical. I see some evidence here and there but there is always a hole, a seemingly minor yet significant missing link where other energy could be introduced into the readings or where the readings exceed the energy produced, so there is no proof.

      • Engineer48

        What is understood is if you get it wrong and you may get high levels of ionising radiation as was recorded when Rossi started up his reactor for a early limited public demo in Italy.

    • Horshu

      Kind of like playing with deflagration and then deciding to graduate to detonation without understanding the change in magnitude. Most people are readily familiar with redox energy levels, but this stuff is next, next, next level power, with side effects most of us have never experienced first-hand, whereas most of us have at least touched a flame.

    • Axil Axil

      But what kind of radiation, that is the question.

      • Alain Samoun

        Yes,I’m curious to know how me356 has detected neutrons reliably

    • Eyedoc

      Maybe, maybe not………..so you know the reactions now do you ??……… Perhaps in the end , the L in LENR won’t stand for nuclear at all

  • Alex Fenrick

    Hopefully those who have been arguing on here as of late that LENR is 100% safe will at very least take this as more valid information when talking about LENR safety. I am quite sure that if LENR proves to be viable, that safety measures can absolutely be achieved especially when compared to the risks of nuclear plant radiation risk as well as environmental impact of fossil fuels. Like Engineer said….What part of “low energy NUCLEAR REACTION” is not understood?!

  • Alex Fenrick

    Hopefully those who have been arguing on here as of late that LENR is 100% safe will at very least take this as more valid information when talking about LENR safety. I am quite sure that if LENR proves to be viable, that safety measures can absolutely be achieved especially when compared to the risks of nuclear plant radiation risk as well as environmental impact of fossil fuels. Like Engineer said….What part of “low energy NUCLEAR REACTION” is not understood?!

  • Lux Terrea

    If me356 will give up the recipe for creating such a near out of control beast so that others can replicate then this would be wonderful news indeed. Otherwise it’s business as usual around here.

  • Lux Terrea

    If me356 will give up the recipe for creating such a near out of control beast so that others can replicate then this would be wonderful news indeed. Otherwise it’s business as usual around here.

  • Hhiram

    me356 has produced a lot of technical talk, but no evidence. No images of equipment, no results data, no video of the reactor in operation, nothing.

    Until some evidence is produced (especially video of a working reactor), I don’t think we need to waste time taking a random anonymous Internet person seriously.

    • Frank Acland
      • Anon2012_2014

        The video only shows a tube furnace at the end of a pipe fitting that is hot.

        Where are the spectacular failure videos?

        Where is there a schematic of what he has set up?

    • LuFong

      me356 earlier had a number of open, live videod experiments that ended up as spectacular failures. If you had followed me356 then you would know he is quite capable and these results are not unexpected. He at this time is not trying to convince anybody. There will be a time (most likley) when he will release specifics but not now.

      The problem I see is that there are too many people trying to tell him what to do. We are fortunate that he still gives out his status.

      • passerby

        This. Many confuse the difference between an update and a press release.

        Goes right along with the attitude of “I have been following this story for years so I am entitled to privileged information”. I see this statement WAY too much here.

  • Hhiram

    me356 has produced a lot of technical talk, but no evidence. No images of equipment, no results data, no video of the reactor in operation, nothing.

    Until some evidence is produced (especially video of a working reactor), I don’t think we need to waste time taking a random anonymous Internet person seriously.

  • I would be very sad if me356 does not immediately share his know-how regarding the easily verifiable but dangerous reactors with MFMP or Universities.

    If he continues to talk about amazing advances while sharing none of it (even the paths he abandons), well then he’s just another Rossi, and we already have enough of those.

    People vouching for him leading up to these moments makes him seem legit. But we don’t really know. For almost all of us he’s just a dude on the Internet posting teasers and showing videos of hot stuff. I hope he decides to prove LENR+ to the world in short order.

    • Frank Acland

      Bob Greenyer knows him and has conducted testing with him, so that makes him a bit more than an anonymous tester. I guess he doesn’t want his identity revealed, however.

      • Yes, that’s why I said “almost all.” I remembered BG vouching for him.

  • I would be very sad if me356 does not immediately share his know-how regarding the easily verifiable but dangerous reactors with MFMP or Universities.

    If he continues to talk about amazing advances while sharing none of it (even the paths he abandons), well then he’s just another Rossi, and we already have enough of those.

    People vouching for him leading up to these moments makes him seem legit. But we don’t really know. For almost all of us he’s just a dude on the Internet posting teasers and showing videos of hot stuff. I hope he decides to prove LENR+ to the world in short order.

    • Frank Acland

      Bob Greenyer knows him and has conducted testing with him, so that makes him a bit more than an anonymous tester. I guess he doesn’t want his identity revealed, however.

      • Yes, that’s why I said “almost all.” I remembered BG vouching for him.

  • Stephen Taylor

    Extraordinary claims……..

    • Ged

      Hopefully all his data and methods are released soon. There comes a point one must pause and share, before continuing the chase…

  • Stephen Taylor

    Extraordinary claims……..

    • Ged

      Hopefully all his data and methods are released soon. There comes a point one must pause and share, before continuing the chase…

  • LuFong

    “Reactor is emmiting neutrons a few days after the test!”

    “If power output is limited, you are safe. But there will be probably always some kind of potentionally harmfull radiation. ”

    Most interesting comments to me.

    • Stephen

      Delayed high energy Neutron emission is interesting, I wonder what can cause that unless some delayed nucleon capture is occurring in the nuclei? Didn’t MFMP see a delayed high energy proton emission from the ash of a test with Piantelli sometime ago?

      I hope it isn’t high intensity or in a burst.

      Hopefully MFMP can get in touch with Me356 and compare notes some day soon.

      I’m very glad Me356 is sharing this information with other replicators.

      • LuFong

        MFMP hasn’t done a test with Piantelli. They have gotten some suggestions of emissions but nothing, outside of a nearby radio station, near the level me356 is reporting.

        • Stephen

          You maybe right regarding MFMP and Piantelli I may have got confused with their meeting where Piantelli presented some data, I was actually rearing to the test where Piantelli put used nickel from one of his reactors in a cloud chamber and saw high energy protons I think about 6 MeV if memory serves me right. I originally saw it in a posting and discussion from Bob following the GS5.2 experiment but I think Piantelli’s test was performed much earlier some years ago.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have spoken with me356 and tentatively arranged a visit in the week beginning 16th.

            He is pretty exhausted from recent rapid testing and needs a chill-out period. He wants to make a reactor, with a swap in flow heat extractor that will run for a reasonable amount of time before I visit.

          • georgehants

            Bob, are you aware if he is willing to share any knowledge he has gained with MFMP?

          • Bob Greenyer

            First and foremost, me356 has shared most of what he has done to date, this is impressive since he is not a native English speaker. He hosted and ran with me the Padua cell for an extended run that work has given the MFMP confidence to run our cells for longer and push them harder (for instance, GS 5.2 & 5.3) – this has led to significant discoveries.

            I have put a lot of ideas out there and me356 is a fast cycler and has ran with several and read widely to add his own interpretations / additions and modifications to his experiments. He is a very intelligent guy with a broad skill set. Following the re-heat of the Padua cell, he made the very best use of MFMP equipment that he had on loan from us that would have laid idle otherwise.

            It is my understanding that he will share what he has done, When I have been with him in the past, there has been a free exchange of ideas and I have reported to the best of my ability as much information as possible complete with high quality visuals.

            He is a private individual that wishes, for now, to remain unidentified and we must respect that – he is not a member of the MFMP and so has no moral obligation to act in the spirit of the MFMP – that he has done so to date, and says he intends to, is something I am happy about. As an individual it is a big challenge to run so many experiments alone and run them Live.

            At this time of limbo, I understand the frustration felt by many, but active, productive and open (to any degree) researchers are few and far between, so we need to respect them and not drive them underground. He is very aware, as we all are, of the significance of the body of research being undertaken.

            About his equipment, he has

            1. SI-14B GM tube,
            2. a gamma spectacular like Mathieu in France
            http://www.gammaspectacular.com/gs-1102-pro
            Coupled to a NaI detector and
            3. some Bubbletech Neutron detectors similar to those that we used in GS5.3.

            From a radiation monitoring point of view, he is well placed to observe emissions.

          • georgehants

            Bob, Wonderful to be able to observe genuine science being performed for the good of all, unlike some people, that our sad society has led to them feeling justified in only working for their own benefit.

          • Mike Henderson

            Can / will the Padua cell be tested again with the stimulus?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The Padua cell was tested to failure over weeks. Some of the ash is with a university in Denmark for analysis and the rest will possibly go in a round of double blind tests.

          • Sanjeev

            That’s a good news Bob.
            How does that go with your FDA (full disclosure policy)? I think if the inventor is not willing to reveal all the info, then also you should accept any offer to test the device as a black box.

            Desperate times demand desperate actions.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I don’t think it will come to that

          • Jarea

            I don’t want to be rude but i must say that if he has what he says, then he has in his hands the prove of the LENR+. There is no time to rest, but to ask for help (technical and scientific). I would like to appeal for his good spirit so that he does what Rossi hasn’t done, that is, to share a receipt to reproduce the LENR+ effect.

          • Bob Greenyer

            He has a day job (his business) and it is very demanding. He does New Fire research in his free time when he should be resting! As I can attest to from personal experience, experimentation can be exhausting even when it is the only thing you are doing.

          • Alain Samoun

            “He has a day job (his business) and it is very demanding”
            Good reason to get some help from the community

          • Bob Greenyer

            Some people just like to do things their way on their own time schedule. It may seem like not accepting help but it is more to do with personal ownership of achievement and respect in one’s capability. It can work up to a point very effectively, but unless something is purely software, at some point help has to be sought.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            I wish “Parkhomovian” persistence to 356 and Bob to bring the case home.

          • we-cat

            Bob,

            Great news. Let me know where i can send the bottle of champagne. You’ll be thirsty after a successful replication!

            Godspeed,

            JB

          • Karl Venter

            Ho Bob
            Please covey our heartfelt congratulations to Mr Me356 for his incredible effort and I believe I speak for most of us here

          • Bob Greenyer

            For sure.

        • Ged

          They got plenty of neutrons though.

          • LuFong

            I thought just a few bubbles? Not enough to be sure of the source?

          • Ged

            5 or 6 countable (i.e. not in the bottom well or top near label; there were some in those regions but they are not allowed to be counted per manufacturer specs) -thermal- neutrons, while 0 for a week during all the calibrations nor since. Thermal is only fusion and fission, not cosmic rays or any other source. There is no doubt about the source, and that many neutrons is quite impressive given the small value of the excess heat.

          • Sanjeev

            Note that the detector subtends a tiny solid angle at the reactor, and so can intercept only a tiny fraction of neutrons emitted by the reactor (assuming that the reactor spits them out in all directions).

            So if you consider the whole volume around the reactor the count will be much more. As a home work, imagine the reactor surrounded by detectors so that there are no gaps between them, the total number of neutrons would be (possibly) 5x the number of detectors you can put there.

            Now the real question is are they significant or just background noise. For example if some U ore is present deep below Alan’s house or one of his fire alarms etc etc.

          • Ged

            Thing is, they weren’t seen before (for a week of control) or after (so far), and only during specific temperature ranges.

            Also, the detectors are behind lead and other shielding.

            So, there is a small area arc being seen by the detectors compared to the omni directional nature of release. There is the 1/r^2 law for attenuation by distance. There is attenuation by reaction with nitrogen in the air. There is attenuation by the alumina reactor body and then again by the lead and other plate shielding. And finally, there is attenuation by the probability of hitting the super critical droplets to be detected compared to the rate of passing through (and this will be affected by the angle at which the neutron encounters the detector). Put all that together, and you can estimate actual neutron production.

      • US_Citizen71

        More likely due to the breakdown of an unstable isotope created by transmutation.

        • Stephen

          Maybe if it was near the neutron drip line. If so I suppose there would be an exponential decay in intensity associated with the half life. I wonder if there are any isotopes with suitable half life for neutron emission that can explain emission over several days?

        • Ged

          Yep. Fission is the other maker of thermal neutrons besides fusion, and spontaneous fissioning isotopes like Californium-252 (half life 2.6 years) are used as a source of thermal neutrons. If the fusion is making thermal neutrons, those could create unstable isotopes out of the surrounding material, which is what could be being observed here.

          But there are other ways to see neutrons post run. If there is a strong alpha emitted in the ash, blasting away light isotopes like beryllium, oxygen, or even carbon, that resulting nuclear reaction could do it. Or a very high energy gamma ejecting neutrons from very light isotopes like beryllium or diets room in nuclear reactions could also do it. The latter two methods have very variable rates and half lives due to whatever the half life of the source emitter causing the secondary reactions is. So, plenty of hour half life lasting isotopes that may fit that bill.

          • Mike Henderson

            me356’s plasma reactor uses tungsten wires, not nickel. Tungsten has a lengthy list of nasty fission products. He modeled this after a commercial neutron generator and got his wish … for better or worse. He has announce this is the end of this line of research.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Abundant neutrons from a cold reactor after such a long time appear to be a new observation. If replicable, this would be an undeniable proof for the existence of LENR.

      • Omega Z

        So this particular version of LENR would not be available to the general population.

        • Stephen

          Hopefully the emissions are still low rate and close to background, but he did seem concerned about it so I guess we will need to wait to see what he says later.

          • US_Citizen71

            Neutron emissions should always be a worry.

          • Axil Axil

            How can we tell the difference between a neutron and a neutral particle.

          • US_Citizen71

            I would assume ideally with a hadronic calorimeter.

          • Warthog

            Why?? See my comment to OmegaZ above.

        • Warthog

          Whyever not?? With properly designed shielding, there should be no danger. Even a double-walled tank with some borate-doped water would be sufficient to shield any types of nuclear radiation that might be present.

          • Omega Z

            I would assume the Nuclear Regulatory Commission would require technicians 24/7. In residential it is usually install and forget until something goes wrong.
            With Neutron emissions, things could go wrong in a really bad way.

          • Warthog

            Why?? Shielding would be designed to protect against the “worst case scenario”. There is nothing “magic” about neutrons, and they are not particularly difficult to shield against. (Note: I did a nuclear science minor when getting my doctorate in chemistry and among my courses was one in shielding design taught by a nuke engineer who had worked on NERVA).

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Not recommendable for inexperienced experimenters, at least.

        • Roland

          More specifically perhaps this particular design should only reside within the mind of its author until the ramifications are very clearly understood.

  • Rossi commits to a public E-Cat QX demo. Will he backtrack or put off indefinitely?

    ———
    Gerard McEk

    May 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM

    Dear Andrea,
    Recently you said the QuarkX will be demonstrated when it is ‘ready’, which you hope is within months.
    It will underpin the details of the ‘Tremendous Surprise’ that will be revealed then.

    Some questions if I may:

    1. To whom will it be demonstrated? (I hope it will be open to public or us, you followers).
    2. Where will it be demonstrated? (I assume Europe, Sweden?)
    3. Is it right to assume that ‘ready’ means ready for sales, so the QuarkX factory is ready and fully equipped, and test runs were successfull?

    Thanks for answering our questions.

    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi

    May 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM

    Gerard McEk:

    1- to our partners in a first stage, to the public in a second
    2- Europe
    3- yes

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Ged

      Unfortunately, a “second stage” could mean any time frame, no pinning down. One could say that is in regards to the commercial product unveil in x(x) years time. Hopefully someone will get a more specific answer later.

      • It’s been a pattern of Rossi’s to over-promise with respect to access.

        I see him as ever-optimistic that real products are just around the corner. He’s definitely in that mode again.

    • Alex Fenrick

      I must say…I am impressed by how Rossi is able to keep his hydrogen nickel so shiny…….ohh that was a TERRIBLE joke…but it had to be done!

      • Roland

        You must be mortified to be so driven by inner comedic demons. Do allow us to share your burdens as our august company should serve to lessen your obvious grief.

    • LuFong

      Rossi changed 3 to: “3- not yet, but close”.

  • Rossi commits to a public E-Cat QX demo. Will he backtrack or put off indefinitely?

    ———
    Gerard McEk

    May 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM

    Dear Andrea,
    Recently you said the QuarkX will be demonstrated when it is ‘ready’, which you hope is within months.
    It will underpin the details of the ‘Tremendous Surprise’ that will be revealed then.

    Some questions if I may:

    1. To whom will it be demonstrated? (I hope it will be open to public or us, you followers).
    2. Where will it be demonstrated? (I assume Europe, Sweden?)
    3. Is it right to assume that ‘ready’ means ready for sales, so the QuarkX factory is ready and fully equipped, and test runs were successfull?

    Thanks for answering our questions.

    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi

    May 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM

    Gerard McEk:

    1- to our partners in a first stage, to the public in a second
    2- Europe
    3- yes

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.

    • Ged

      Unfortunately, a “second stage” could mean any time frame, no pinning down. One could say that is in regards to the commercial product unveil in x(x) years time. Hopefully someone will get a more specific answer later.

      • It’s been a pattern of Rossi’s to over-promise with respect to access.

        I see him as ever-optimistic that real products are just around the corner. He’s definitely in that mode again.

    • Alex Fenrick

      I must say…I am impressed by how Rossi is able to keep his hydrogen nickel so shiny…….ohh that was a TERRIBLE joke…but it had to be done!

      • Roland

        You must be mortified to be so driven by inner comedic demons. Do allow us to share your burdens as our august company should serve to lessen your obvious grief.

  • malkom700

    If these things are confirmed competition arises instantly between the states and the US to be fall behind as it did in the field of space travel again.

  • malkom700

    If these things are confirmed competition arises instantly between the states and the US to be fall behind as it did in the field of space travel again.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Sounds like this is a very dangerous reactor. However, since this thing can potentially go to a COP of 50 with Lithium, I would love to see it tested, especially with Lithium. With that kind of output we can easily once and for all prove that LENR is viable.

    Though such a test really ought to be done with full safety precautions in effect. As I understand it, neutrons are deadly. Maybe it’s time to join resources and do a test in collaboration with MFMP?

    On a different note: LENR seem all about the specific fuel mixture and a number of control parameters to create a reaction that is both powerful and the least dangerous in terms of radiation. Rossi seems far ahead of everyone in that respect.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    Sounds like this is a very dangerous reactor. However, since this thing can potentially go to a COP of 50 with Lithium, I would love to see it tested, especially with Lithium. With that kind of output we can easily once and for all prove that LENR is viable.

    Though such a test really ought to be done with full safety precautions in effect. As I understand it, neutrons are deadly. Maybe it’s time to join resources and do a test in collaboration with MFMP?

    On a different note: LENR seem all about the specific fuel mixture and a number of control parameters to create a reaction that is both powerful and the least dangerous in terms of radiation. Rossi seems far ahead of everyone in that respect.

  • Stephen
  • Stephen
  • Anon2012_2014

    Anyone have a diagram of this reactor rig of me356.

    What I see is a glass/neon like plasma tube in the center, running something that emits violet colored light, and what appears to be a Rossi style tube furnace.

    I am unsure what I am looking at — we only have me356’s words. It could be a neon sign tube lit by a transformer next to a tube furnace lit by an electric heater. Could be a working LENR device that produces neutrons. Could be a fusor of some kind that produces neutrons surrounds by a lithium blanket (no idea what the reactions and cross sections would be.)

    No way to know what I am looking at.

    Can someone point me to a diagram of what this is?

  • Anon2012_2014

    Anyone have a diagram of this reactor rig of me356.

    What I see is a glass/neon like plasma tube in the center, running something that emits violet colored light, and what appears to be a Rossi style tube furnace.

    I am unsure what I am looking at — we only have me356’s words. It could be a neon sign tube lit by a transformer next to a tube furnace lit by an electric heater. Could be a working LENR device that produces neutrons. Could be a fusor of some kind that produces neutrons surrounds by a lithium blanket (no idea what the reactions and cross sections would be.)

    No way to know what I am looking at.

    Can someone point me to a diagram of what this is?

  • Ophelia Rump

    That will put a crimp in the garage LENR industry unless someone comes up with a safety methodology which can be relied upon. The need for expensive radiation sensors would make the low cost energy prohibitively expensive. If it must come down to trust then the name brands will win the day but the price and distribution may be considerably dampened, then again most of the world would gladly take the risk to gain the benefits which will be so abundant.

    • US_Citizen71

      A cheap gamma detector could be enough for safety (ie time to turn off the power and leave the vicinity), but a lead shield or similar around the project would be needed to turn neutrons in to gamma rays. If I was going to experiment I would insure that my experiment had some shielding around it be it concrete block and lead roofing rolls or something more sophisticated. The hot reactors like the GlowSticks can give off UV as well as IR so watching them like a lab top campfire is not likely the best thing anyway.

      • Ophelia Rump

        That makes your cell phone considerably more difficult to carry?

        Really you just need to validate the safety of a device which you are purchasing.

        Cheap knockoffs could be deadly, while well made units are perfectly fine.

        Impurities!

      • Warthog

        Actually, a Geiger-Mueller tube with boron trifluoride-doped fill gas and a mylar window will detect all types of nuclear emissions, including neutrons. GM tubes and electronics are relatively inexpensive.

      • A large fish tank full of sodium borate solution will absorb neutrons (and also UV/gamma) more cheaply than lead and would allow experiments to be observed in safely. I think concrete blocks would be fine to complete an enclosure. A GM detector with remote probe is obviously essential, even when neutron emission isn’t expected.

      • Warthog

        Lead is NOT a good material for shielding neutrons. Lead is good for shielding gamma (and of course beta and alpha). To shield neutrons, you need a material with a LOW density and a high concentration of protons (i.e. water or polyolefins). Hign-energy neutrons “hit” the protons and lose energy by collision (think billiard balls) until they are thermalised. Once thermalized, you need a material to “capture” the neutrons (i.e. have a high neutron capture cross section). Boron is one of the best at that.

        • US_Citizen71

          The idea of the lead shielding was not to protect from neutrons but to cause them to create gamma that could be detected by a cheap gamma detector and thus let you know things are beginning to become unsafe.

          • Stephen

            Interesting idea. Do you know if we would also get gamma from Boron?

          • US_Citizen71

            I would say from Agarius’ reply below probably not.

          • Warthog

            No, you get charged particles inside the GM tube, which is a far more sensitive detection than gamma.

          • Stephen

            Thanks very much for the link
            I was talking about the prompt gamma produced in reply to US-Citizen71, but I think the process you describe is a better sensor.

            The process you described is interesting since when B11 in ground state is stable and is infact 80% abundant but has a much smaller cross section for neutron capture than the 20% abundant B10. B10 cross section for neutron capture on the other hand is only beaten by H3 I think. So the process above with B10 (n,alpha) Li7 is really a stimulated fission. It’s interesting this occurs rather than a gamma decay to ground state.

            I also found an interesting link on slow neutron capture that you or others might find interesting if slow neutrons are present in LENR.

            http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1263_web.pdf

            And I find this one quite useful too.

            https://www-nds.iaea.org/relnsd/vcharthtml/VChartHTML.html

          • Stephen

            Your link does make me wonder if it would be useful to include B10F19 in the mix in (or in near contact with) the fuel/catalyst mix. If any slow neutrons are present perhaps they could usefully generate Li7 from the B10 using the process you described. I suppose the F19 would go to Ne 20 if it captures a proton or I indirectly via F20 and beta decay if it captures a neutron.

            On the other hand we would need to be careful of the chemical effects from any free Flourine or Boron.

          • Warthog

            A Geiger counter is about as cheap as it gets, and with BF3 fill gas, detects neutrons directly.

        • Rene

          Go to a party store and buy a bunch of boxes of Halloween or household paraffin wax. Stack them up in a few layers such that all gaps are covered by another box. Neutron shielding. Worked nicely at a University lab.

          • Warthog

            Yup, paraffin also works.

    • Rene

      Bombard a tungsten target with electrons and you get tons of x-rays. It is quite easy to get radioactive effects. Bombard D or T and you get tons of neutrons. All it means is that some side reactions are occuring. Rossi mentioned this many times and worked to eliminate them. Me356 has to do the same.

      • Sanjeev

        I guess by bombardment you mean very very high energies. Me is using few hundred watts as far as I know. Its still possible to accelerate the e- to some good speeds, but given the tiny length of the reactor and H2 atmosphere in it, I think its improbable.

        • Rene

          It is fairly esy to generate 200Kev in crystal lattices. Much of this LENR speculation is based on these energies achievable in the lattice. Also Rossi mention these neutron side reactions here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=733&cpage=4 My point is that he said he found those rections were not part of the main LENR effect and that he worked to eliminate them. This is why I said earlier that discovering some neutrons are produced in one experiment is not a prioi a given for LENR in general.

          • Zephir

            /* My point is that he said he found those rections were not part of the main LENR effect and that he worked to eliminate them */

            Probably yes, but me356 also relates the escapement of neutrons with high COP of reaction.

        • Zephir

          The number of watts is not relevant here – the voltage used is. You can generate few neutrons with statical electricity only.

    • Alain Samoun

      And anyway,it looks like that it will be safer than fission…

  • Ophelia Rump

    That will put a crimp in the garage LENR industry unless someone comes up with a safety methodology which can be relied upon. The need for expensive radiation sensors would make the low cost energy prohibitively expensive. If it must come down to trust then the name brands will win the day but the price and distribution may be considerably dampened, then again most of the world would gladly take the risk to gain the benefits which will be so abundant.

    • US_Citizen71

      A cheap gamma detector could be enough for safety (ie time to turn off the power and leave the vicinity), but a lead shield or similar around the project would be needed to turn neutrons in to gamma rays. If I was going to experiment I would insure that my experiment had some shielding around it be it concrete block and lead roofing rolls or something more sophisticated. The hot reactors like the GlowSticks can give off UV as well as IR so watching them like a lab top campfire is not likely the best thing anyway.

      • Ophelia Rump

        That makes your cell phone considerably more difficult to carry?

        Really you just need to validate the safety of a device which you are purchasing.

        Cheap knockoffs could be deadly, while well made units are perfectly fine.

        Impurities!

      • Warthog

        Actually, a Geiger-Mueller tube with boron trifluoride-doped fill gas and a mylar window will detect all types of nuclear emissions, including neutrons. GM tubes and electronics are relatively inexpensive.

      • A large fish tank full of sodium borate solution will absorb neutrons (and also UV/gamma) more cheaply than lead and would allow experiments to be observed in safely. (Actually, just plain water would probably be sufficient in this case.) I think cheap concrete blocks would be fine to complete an enclosure. A GM detector with remote probe is obviously essential for all CF experiments, even when neutron emission isn’t expected.

        Edit: Me356’s latest reactor incarnation may share some physics with the GEC GeNiE ‘hybrid’ reactor, which is basically a sub-critical fission reactor that is initiated and sustained by a Pd-D cold fusion neutron source. The LENR neutron source was originally said to be driven by microwave radiation, but both the original research and the later product used modulated current flow drivers (from what little information remains online):

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/10/26/always-open-e-cat-world-thread/#comment-2624069330

        2nd Edit: Warthog has already suggested borate/water shielding. Too many comments to parse thoroughly these days!

      • Warthog

        Lead is NOT a good material for shielding neutrons. Lead is good for shielding gamma (and of course beta and alpha). To shield neutrons, you need a material with a LOW density and a high concentration of protons (i.e. water or polyolefins). Hign-energy neutrons “hit” the protons and lose energy by collision (think billiard balls) until they are thermalised. Once thermalized, you need a material to “capture” the neutrons (i.e. have a high neutron capture cross section). Boron is one of the best at that.

        • US_Citizen71

          The idea of the lead shielding was not to protect from neutrons but to cause them to create gamma that could be detected by a cheap gamma detector and thus let you know things are beginning to become unsafe.

          • Stephen

            Interesting idea. Do you know if we would also get gamma from Boron?

          • US_Citizen71

            I would say from Agarius’ reply below probably not.

          • Warthog

            No, you get charged particles formed inside the GM tube, which is a far more sensitive detection than gamma. 10B absorbs a neutron, and fissions into 4He and 7Li, which generates a huge detection pulse in the GM tube.

            https://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/boroncounter.htm

          • Stephen

            Thanks very much for the link
            I was talking about the prompt gamma produced in reply to US-Citizen71, but I think the process you describe is a better sensor.

            The process you described is interesting since when B11 in ground state is stable and is infact 80% abundant but has a much smaller cross section for neutron capture than the 20% abundant B10. B10 cross section for neutron capture on the other hand is only beaten by He3 I think. So the process above with B10 (n,alpha) Li7 is really a stimulated fission. It’s interesting this occurs rather than a gamma decay to ground state.

            I also found an interesting link on slow neutron capture that you or others might find interesting if slow neutrons are present in LENR.

            http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1263_web.pdf

            And I find this one quite useful too.

            https://www-nds.iaea.org/relnsd/vcharthtml/VChartHTML.html

            Edit: Interestingly the negative Q value for alpha decay is quite high in B11 meaning it is normally very stable in ground state. But maybe there is some other factors in this stimulated state after neutron absorption that cause it to occur.

          • Stephen

            Your link does make me wonder if it would be useful to include B10 enhanced BF3 in the mix in (or in near contact with) the fuel/catalyst mix. If any slow neutrons are present perhaps they could usefully generate Li7 from the B10 using the process you described. I suppose the F19 would go to Ne 20 if it captures a proton or I indirectly via F20 and beta decay if it captures a neutron.

            On the other hand we would need to be careful of the chemical effects from any free Flourine or Boron.

            If I understand correctly Li6 is quite a good absorber of neutrons too and would also go to Li7 (or would it fission to He4 H3 as well?) although it’s not as good as B10 or He3. I wonder if that explains some of Songshengs transmutation results.

          • Warthog

            A Geiger counter is about as cheap as it gets, and with BF3 fill gas, detects neutrons directly.

        • Rene

          Go to a party store and buy a bunch of boxes of Halloween or household paraffin wax. Stack them up in a few layers such that all gaps are covered by another box. Neutron shielding. Worked nicely at a University lab.

          • Warthog

            Yup, paraffin also works.

    • Rene

      Bombard a tungsten target with electrons and you get tons of x-rays. It is quite easy to get radioactive effects. Bombard D or T and you get tons of neutrons. All it means is that some side reactions are occuring. Rossi mentioned this many times and worked to eliminate them. Me356 has to do the same.

      • Sanjeev

        I guess by bombardment you mean very very high energies. Me is using few hundred watts as far as I know. Its still possible to accelerate the e- to some good speeds, but given the tiny length of the reactor and H2 atmosphere in it, I think its improbable.

        • Rene

          It is fairly esy to generate 200Kev in crystal lattices. Much of this LENR speculation is based on these energies achievable in the lattice. Also Rossi mention these neutron side reactions here: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=733&cpage=4 My point is that he said he found those rections were not part of the main LENR effect and that he worked to eliminate them. This is why I said earlier that discovering some neutrons are produced in one experiment is not a prioi a given for LENR in general.

          • Zephir

            /* My point is that he said he found those rections were not part of the main LENR effect and that he worked to eliminate them */

            Probably yes, but me356 also relates the escapement of neutrons with high COP of reaction.

        • Zephir

          The number of watts is not relevant here – the voltage used is. You can generate few neutrons with statical electricity only.

    • Alain Samoun

      And anyway,it looks like that it will be safer than fission…

  • Ged

    Really? I don’t think you have worked with radiation then, or know why ALARA works, or why those bubble detectors even exist or how they work, or rates of detection and mechanisms driving them compared with competitive rates, or rates of other heat generating mechanisms and their proportionality to neutron generating mechanisms.

    Bubble detectors wouldn’t be very useful if a trillion bubbles showed up in a second, eh? Throwing out a number based on nothing like “trillion per second” (utterly wrong) is meaningless.

  • Mike Henderson

    Calm down. The plasma reactor used mostly tungsten, which is known to have nasty fission products, and only a trace of the more benign nickel.

  • Mike Henderson

    Calm down. The plasma reactor used mostly tungsten, which is known to have nasty fission products, and only a trace of the more benign nickel.

  • Private Citizen

    Hope Me356 has the goods. Hope he is telling the truth that he will reveal all in “a few days,” and not hold out thinking he can make $billions by hook or crook.

    As it is, it is within his power to just say what he is doing differently to trigger LENR now, which he promises to do very soon anyway. But he chooses to be coy and Rossiesque. Perhaps he too has invited the perpetually moving goal post?

    In a few days we should have the great truth or a moving goal post.

    Hope springs eternal. Will believe it when i see it.

    In science, distrust yet verify.

  • Sanjeev

    Sorry to interrupt, but I guess you are assuming that all of the heat produced in the Ecat comes from neutrons (in some way), but there can be other causes for heat, like fusion/hydrino/proton capture or gamma etc and neutrons can simply be a by product from impurities etc, that happen to lie in the way. Thats why we see so few of them and some experiments don’t detect any of them.

  • Sanjeev

    Me356:If your house will be radioactive or contaminated in any way because of
    inexperienced experiments, you and your family will not be happy. You
    would wish it never happened.

    Many people are asking him for the recipe but from this statement it looks like he is not sure if it can be made public, probably he thinks its too dangerous to replicate at this time.

    • Jarea

      God. Let the university or MFMP replicate and stop with excuses.

  • Sanjeev

    Me356:If your house will be radioactive or contaminated in any way because of
    inexperienced experiments, you and your family will not be happy. You
    would wish it never happened.

    Many people are asking him for the recipe but from this statement it looks like he is not sure if it can be made public, probably he thinks its too dangerous to replicate at this time.

    • Jarea

      God. Let the university or MFMP replicate and stop with excuses.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I have spoken with me356 and tentatively arranged a visit in the week beginning 16th.

    He is pretty exhausted from recent rapid testing and needs a chill-out period. He wants to make a reactor, with a swap in flow heat extractor that will run for a reasonable amount of time before I visit.

    • georgehants

      Bob, are you aware if he is willing to share any knowledge he has gained with MFMP?

      • Bob Greenyer

        First and foremost, me356 has shared most of what he has done to date, this is impressive since he is not a native English speaker. He hosted and ran with me the Padua cell for an extended run that work has given the MFMP confidence to run our cells for longer and push them harder (for instance, GS 5.2 & 5.3) – this has led to significant discoveries.

        I have put a lot of ideas out there and me356 is a fast cycler and has ran with several and read widely to add his own interpretations / additions and modifications to his experiments. He is a very intelligent guy with a broad skill set. Following the re-heat of the Padua cell, he made the very best use of MFMP equipment that he had on loan from us that would have laid idle otherwise.

        It is my understanding that he will share what he has done, When I have been with him in the past, there has been a free exchange of ideas and I have reported to the best of my ability as much information as possible complete with high quality visuals.

        He is a private individual that wishes, for now, to remain unidentified and we must respect that – he is not a member of the MFMP and so has no moral obligation to act in the spirit of the MFMP – that he has done so to date, and says he intends to, is something I am happy about. As an individual it is a big challenge to run so many experiments alone and run them Live.

        At this time of limbo, I understand the frustration felt by many, but active, productive and open (to any degree) researchers are few and far between, so we need to respect them and not drive them underground. He is very aware, as we all are, of the significance of the body of research being undertaken.

        About his equipment, he has

        1. SI-14B GM tube,
        2. a gamma spectacular like Mathieu in France
        http://www.gammaspectacular.com/gs-1102-pro
        Coupled to a NaI detector and
        3. some Bubbletech Neutron detectors similar to those that we used in GS5.3.

        From a radiation monitoring point of view, he is well placed to observe emissions.

        • georgehants

          Bob, Wonderful to be able to observe genuine science being performed for the good of all, unlike some people, that our sad society has led to them feeling justified in only working for their own benefit.

        • Mike Henderson

          Can / will the Padua cell be tested again with the stimulus?

          • Bob Greenyer

            The Padua cell was tested to failure over weeks. Some of the ash is with a university in Denmark for analysis and the rest will possibly go in a round of double blind tests.

    • Sanjeev

      That’s a good news Bob.
      How does that go with your FDA (full disclosure policy)? I think if the inventor is not willing to reveal all the info, still you should accept any offer to test the device as a black box.

      Desperate times demand desperate actions.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I don’t think it will come to that

    • Jarea

      I don’t want to be rude but i must say that if he has what he says, then he has in his hands the prove of the LENR+. There is no time to rest, but to ask for help (technical and scientific). I would like to appeal for his good spirit so that he does what Rossi hasn’t done, that is, to share a receipt to reproduce the LENR+ effect.

      • Bob Greenyer

        He has a day job (his business) and it is very demanding. He does New Fire research in his free time when he should be resting! As I can attest to from personal experience, experimentation can be exhausting even when it is the only thing you are doing.

        • Alain Samoun

          “He has a day job (his business) and it is very demanding”
          Good reason to get some help from the community

          • Bob Greenyer

            Some people just like to do things their way on their own time schedule. It may seem like not accepting help but it is more to do with personal ownership of achievement and respect in one’s capability. It can work up to a point very effectively, but unless something is purely software, at some point help has to be sought.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I wish “Parkhomovian” persistence to 356 and Bob to bring the case home.

    • we-cat

      Bob,

      Great news. Let me know where i can send the bottle of champagne. You’ll be thirsty after a successful replication!

      Godspeed,

      JB

    • Karl Venter

      Ho Bob
      Please covey our heartfelt congratulations to Mr Me356 for his incredible effort and I believe I speak for most of us here

      • Bob Greenyer

        For sure.

  • Karl Venter

    Go Me356 go — Well done

    • lifeswhatyoumakeit

      Karl, are you in South Africa? I know Venter is a South African surname. I live in Cape Town and it would be great to be in touch with other LENR followers in the country.

      • Karl Venter

        Yip good old African
        pretoria
        post a few months ago by prof at Univ of Pretoria about fusion in crystal lattice give good insight how to overcome coulomb barrier – but he is sceptical
        sms oh seven one double 4 5 three zero three zero – send you email adress

  • Karl Venter

    Go Me356 go — Well done

    • lifeswhatyoumakeit

      Karl, are you in South Africa? I know Venter is a South African surname. I live in Cape Town and it would be great to be in touch with other LENR followers in the country.

      • Karl Venter

        Yip good old African
        pretoria
        post a few months ago by prof at Univ of Pretoria about fusion in crystal lattice give good insight how to overcome coulomb barrier – but he is sceptical
        sms oh seven one double 4 5 three zero three zero – send you email adress

  • Bob

    Very nice ME356 and what a refreshing attitude I read below that ME356 is willing to work with MFMP!
    While I do not know the people at MFMP personally, my intuition (for whatever it is worth) is that they are the “real deal”. No hidden motives nor questionable character. The point being is that if ME356 takes the path to work with MFMP, I believe it will do nothing but improve his chances of being the first to truly PROVE CF / LENR / “Whatever” and could really enhance his chances of reaping the well deserved benefits of his work. Whether that be recognition, respect or wealth. I truly hope he gets all three! If one truly has this marvelous break through, I see NO reason, NO negative, that they would not jump at the chance to work with MFMP. This has been shown by Piantelli, Celani and Parkamov! They have proven that MFMP is not a “threat to their IP”.
    .
    Rossi would do well to do the same. No “public demo”. Work with MFMP and he could, in short order, gain the respect and recognition he seems to crave. But then again, he refuses to do so, which damages my opinion of him. He used to blame IH for not working with MFMP, but now he does not have that excuse. He has constantly refused to work with Ed Storms or others that are not only experienced, qualified and respected LENR researchers, but truly independent as well!
    .
    Let’s all make a unified call to him to work with MFMP on validation!
    .
    Otherwise, he is going to see someone like ME356 become the “Edison” of cold fusion and he will be left in the shadows. Which quite truthfully, right now, I really could care less. Sometimes “one makes their own bed and has to lie in it.”
    .
    I am hoping that ME356 is able to break the “skepto barrier” in the next month with MFMP! Rossi has just about used up his “allotment of patience” with me. .
    .
    I am a firm supporter of MFMP and I will now start following the ME356 story much more closely than the “Rossi Says” soap opera. Thanks Frank for publishing these articles that have some true meaning.

    • Mats002

      +1 (not logged in)

  • Lux Terrea

    Long treks and late hours NOT necessary. Just send the recipe, numbers, lab notes, photos and videos to the totally transparent researchers at MFMP and then rock n roll some Skype if necessary. MFMP will reproduce the results (if it’s possible) and will give credit where credit is due. Just do it. Lets save the planet, people! Let’s put this baby to bed!

  • Bob Greenyer

    The MFMP had called for an IGBT driver early on as it was the only one that could create the kind of waveform that you see in Rossi’s pencil sketch from his lab photo. Gerrard McEk also suggested it. For me it is the only way to create the highest dI/dt (fast and high current pulse) over the full range of powers for the reactors control and create multiple high dI/dt. The challenge is an inductor will resist high dI/dt so you need to think about your heater design carefully to maximise the effect.

    See image

    The problem with our SCR control is that there are only 2 times that power is turned on and for low and high powers the dI peak is low and then there is just slow rate of change. only at the middle of the power range, do we see highest dI/dt – also, with GS experiments in US the V is half.

    With IGBT and appropriately designed heater, you could create 10s or 100s of high current pulses per cycle.

    me356 uses an IGBT controller.

    • Mats002

      Half joke half serious I have pointed out that the 110V in US vs 220 in Europe is why US don’t score high XH, nor SSM. Rossi use 3 phase in US. Wonder why..?

      I don’t know what juice they have in China, more than 110?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Russia is 220.

        • Mats002

          IGBT used to be MOSFET transistors back when I pulsed LED video displays in the 80:s. 20 mA continous gave same light intensity as 1/32 pulse at several Amps. It was the heat that killed the LEDs but they could withstand the high temporary current because heat averages out over time. At the time that was considered a bad design by many electronic engineers. LED displays is all around us today and they are pulsed.

          • Mats002

            I guess I’m saying high temporary current make high local heat. Very high.
            That might make the difference.

          • Mats002

            And that LED display produced high frequency RF but wasn’t disturbing analogue TV electronics and not Z80 type microprocessors at below 100 MHz (we joked that soon enough Swedish P3 channel will be heard from the PC main CPU board, so at that time internal clock was below 99.3 MHz). RF produced was probably much higher.

          • Axil Axil

            Gods said about his q pulse that if the pulse was fast enough, the pulse would produce high EMF fields without the production of destructive heating.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sometimes it is painful to be way ahead of you time, no one cares, then when every one is doing it – no one cares that you did it long ago… it is a cruel world. You kept on innovating though Mats002 – and that is a credit to you!

          • Mats002

            Thanks Bob – My thoughts goes to the 89:ers of Cold Fusion. I pray that they soon will see how their discovery enlightens our world. Also those who are in heaven.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Nice sentiment. Agreed

      • Argon

        Europe has harmonized to 230V. I think big peak powers are not a problem. You just need to study inverters or switching power supplies. Industrial inverters can deliver hundreds of kW:s of constant power. So getting high energy high spikes is matter of rectfying AC, storing energy to (super)capacitors and releasing it via mosfets. If high voltage pulse is needed, add coil. That would not require high average power from the grid.

      • Alan Smith

        Rossi used 3-phase in Lugano, as described in the report.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        Actually, the US also has 240 VAC available for the home primarily for heavy poser appliances like electric stoves and air conditioners. Most commercial buildings have 208VAC 3-phase.

    • LT

      Why not separate the heating from the stimulation by using a separate antenna or hf coil connected to a RF transmitter for the stimulation. (tunable ham radio transmitter ?) In that way it is also possible to determine which are the important frequencies needed for stimulation.

      • Bob Greenyer

        We are building a dedicated team to work on stimulation electronics.

    • Andre Blum

      Bob,
      I just donated another $200 to help cover costs for your trip or for equipment. I encourage others to do the same. Interesting times!

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks Andre that will help. Let’s hope that me356 gets the down time he needs and can get things ready.

        • Steve Savage

          Maybe it is time for ME365 to go full time on this? How cold that happen, how could we facilitate? Kickstarter?

          • Bob Greenyer

            As I said before – he has another business and he cares for that deeply. He is not going to go full time on this. Having said that, me356 is probably capable of achieving part time what several full time researchers could achieve.

      • Axil Axil

        I would contribute if and only if Bob would use the money for a muon detector.

    • Axil Axil

      em356 told me as follows:

      “axil: I have did few tests with pulsed control driven by IGBT circuit with programmable PWM and it works well.”

      Does this statement say that a PWM was the controller?

      SEE

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

      • Bob Greenyer

        He has and does use an IGBT with PWM. this gives very flexible control over the input power shape – it is very noisy though, which may be a good thing.

        • Alan Smith

          At Lookingforheat we are through the design phase and currently awaiting boards for a batch of H-Bridges. These are fast-switching full polarity reversal systems that breadboarding suggests will be good for up to 2kHz at 50V 10A. The board uses ‘through hole’ (not SMD) components for ease of assembly and will be available as a low-cost complete kit next month. This uses power-mosfets switched by optocouplers – controlled by Arduino Mega. Software and hardwatre for the control system will also be offered.

          The problem we found with SSR switching of AC is the ‘zero-crossing’ thing. They only switch when the line voltage hits this point. There are ‘random’ SSR’s available but for a variety of complex reasons not much better for our purposes. That is why our H-Bridges will switch DC.

          A study of the photos from Miami shows Rossi uses phase controllers in his system, driven by opto-couplers connected to (presumably) a computer/software system devised by him and Fabiani. There is a good view of this in the infamous ‘stethoscope’ picture.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Good and yes.

        • psi2u2

          Do you think this is the most probable origin of his comparative success at generating higher reaction rates?

          • Argon

            I can’t say how probable, but possible at least. When you drive heater with square wave impulses, you apply many frequencies (harmonics of base frequency actually). If we think that there is some resonance frequency (of hydrogen?) needed, then with proper adjustment of base frequency could hit resonance with one of the harmonics.

            Problem with low base frequency is that amplitude of next harmonics gets very low very guickly. That’s why I like the idea of separating heater coil from triggering coil (could that be cat/mouse in Rossis terminology?)

            You may like to revisit how square wave cosists of higher harmonics of sine waves combined. Especially chapter ‘Examining the square wave’ with good animation in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave

    • US_Citizen71

      I was talking with a friend who is big into flying quad rotor drones about LENR and the replications that are being done. He suggested a brushless DC speed controller might be useful to produce the power waveforms that have been suggested lately. I thought I would throw this out there for those with a EE background to comment on.

      An informative product review including oscilloscope data : http://multirotorforums.com/threads/product-review-jeti-hicopter-30a-opto-esc.18559/

      Links to data sheets from one of the manufacturers: http://www.jetimodel.com/en/katalog/Speed-Controllers/@od/20/

      Pricing: https://www.electricwingman.com/jeti-multicopter-esc.aspx

    • DrD

      Have you considered avalanche transistors, eg FMMT415 series. They’re more suited to nsec pulse widths but do have extremely high dI/dt and high currents (100A or more). No good for usec or msec pulse widths though.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes, we have considered them when we were looking at potential triggering circuits. Back then we did not have a reliable rector design and monitoring approach, with an Optris and GS 5.x + we thing we have have that covered now – so it becomes easier to focus resources.

  • Bob Greenyer

    The MFMP had called for an IGBT driver early on as it was the only one that could create the kind of waveform that you see in Rossi’s pencil sketch from his lab photo. Gerrard McEk also suggested it. For me it is the only way to create the highest dI/dt (fast and high current pulse) over the full range of powers for the reactors control and create multiple high dI/dt. The challenge is an inductor will resist high dI/dt so you need to think about your heater design carefully to maximise the effect.

    See image

    The problem with our SCR control is that there are only 2 times that power is turned on and for low and high powers the dI peak is low and then there is just slow rate of change. only at the middle of the power range, do we see highest dI/dt – also, with GS experiments in US the V is half.

    With IGBT and appropriately designed heater, you could create 10s or 100s of high current pulses per cycle.

    me356 uses an IGBT controller.

    • Mats002

      Half joke half serious I have pointed out that the 110V in US vs 220 in Europe is why US don’t score high XH, nor SSM. Rossi use 3 phase in US. Wonder why..?

      I don’t know what juice they have in China, more than 110?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Russia is 220.

        • Mats002

          IGBT used to be MOSFET transistors back when I pulsed LED video displays in the 80:s. 20 mA continous gave same light intensity as 1/32 pulse at several Amps. It was the heat that killed the LEDs but they could withstand the high temporary current because heat averages out over time. At the time that was considered a bad design by many electronic engineers. LED displays is all around us today and they are pulsed.

          • Mats002

            I guess I’m saying high temporary current make high local heat. Very high.
            That might make the difference.

          • Mats002

            And that LED display produced high frequency RF but wasn’t disturbing analogue TV electronics and not Z80 type microprocessors at below 100 MHz (we joked that soon enough Swedish P3 channel will be heard from the PC main CPU board, so at that time internal clock was below 99.3 MHz). RF produced was probably much higher.

          • Axil Axil

            Robert Godes of Brillouin said about his q pulse that if the pulse was fast enough, the pulse would produce high EMF fields without the production of destructive heating.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Sometimes it is painful to be way ahead of you time, no one cares, then when every one is doing it – no one cares that you did it long ago… it is a cruel world. You kept on innovating though Mats002 – and that is a credit to you!

          • Mats002

            Thanks Bob – My thoughts goes to the 89:ers of Cold Fusion. I pray that they soon will see how their discovery enlightens our world. Also those who are in heaven.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Nice sentiment. Agreed

      • Argon

        Europe has harmonized to 230V. I think big peak powers are not a problem. You just need to study inverters or switching power supplies. Industrial inverters can deliver hundreds of kW:s of constant power. So getting high energy high spikes is matter of rectfying AC, storing energy to (super)capacitors and releasing it via mosfets. If high voltage pulse is needed, add coil. That would not require high average power from the grid.

        Edit: Not to take anything away from your theory. If Rossi is using only triacs as it seems, your theory could stil have some grounds.

      • Alan Smith

        Rossi used 3-phase in Lugano, as described in the report.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        Actually, the US also has 240 VAC available for the home primarily for heavy poser appliances like electric stoves and air conditioners. Most commercial buildings have 208VAC 3-phase.

    • LT

      Why not separate the heating from the stimulation by using a separate antenna or hf coil connected to a RF transmitter for the stimulation. (tunable ham radio transmitter ?) In that way it is also possible to determine which are the important frequencies needed for stimulation.

      • Bob Greenyer

        We are building a dedicated team to work on stimulation electronics.

    • Andre Blum

      Bob,
      I just donated another $200 to help cover costs for your trip or for equipment. I encourage others to do the same. Interesting times!

      • Bob Greenyer

        Thanks Andre that will help. Let’s hope that me356 gets the down time he needs and can get things ready.

        • Steve Savage

          Maybe it is time for ME365 to go full time on this? How cold that happen, how could we facilitate? Kickstarter?

          • Bob Greenyer

            As I said before – he has another business and he cares for that deeply. He is not going to go full time on this. Having said that, me356 is probably capable of achieving part time what several full time researchers could achieve.

      • Axil Axil

        I would contribute if and only if Bob would use the money for a muon detector.

    • Axil Axil

      em356 told me as follows:

      “axil: I have did few tests with pulsed control driven by IGBT circuit with programmable PWM and it works well.”

      Does this statement say that a PWM was the controller?

      SEE

      Pulse-width modulation

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

      • Horshu

        Will an Arduino suffice? I’ve several Uno’s sitting around, as I use them to push my CNC controller. I’ve got a speed controller hooked to it that uses one of the PWM pins to adjust the spindle RPMs.

        • Mats002

          Arduino have 16MHz clock (might be different versions with higher frequency, I don’t know from memory) and I think it is sufficient. The problem is in the power amplifier part as Bob picture above. This is Brillioun solution: http://www.google.com/patents/US20070268045?dq=20070268045&ei=5HuQT9CvJOegiQLompD3Ag
          and
          http://www.google.com/patents/US20070206715?dq=20070206715&ei=jaSQT9KmIaWjiQLW7dyQAw

          If this is what makes me356 reactor successful, I don’t know, he might do several things. Can’t wait to be informed 🙂 !

          • Mats002

            From Brillioun patent:

            “Currently due to hardware/software in use, events are being run at 1518.8 Hz or 658 μS. This represents a 16-bit PWM with a 99.5328 MHz clock.”

          • Mats002

            Note about this: The clock frequency is not important for PWM as long as it is fast enough to produce the modulation and that is even below KHz. The steep change from 0 to 1 (0 – 5 V if that is what is driving the digital curcuits) and equals fast OFF 1 to 0 is the driver. That steepness must be conserved in the power feed to the load (coil) and that is what counts here. (I make an Axil and sound like I know without doubt).

      • Bob Greenyer

        He has and does use an IGBT with PWM. this gives very flexible control over the input power shape – it is very noisy though, which may be a good thing.

        • steph har

          If your pulsing current through a coil you also have to deal with the back emf, but maybe the high voltage from this is aiding the effect.

          • Alan Smith

            Sure- bound to be a certain amount of ‘ringing’ – a voltage spike as the magnetic field in the heater coils collapses – but as you say, not necessarily a biad thing. I have pondered adding to it by increasing the very small inductance of the coils. Problem is that also changes the shape of the ‘on ramp’ (Delta/V) when you switch the heater circuit on.

        • Alan Smith

          At Lookingforheat we are through the design phase and currently awaiting boards for a batch of H-Bridges. These are fast-switching full polarity reversal systems that breadboarding suggests will be good for up to 2kHz at 50V 10A. The board uses ‘through hole’ (not SMD) components for ease of assembly and will be available as a low-cost complete kit next month. This uses power-mosfets switched by optocouplers – controlled by Arduino Mega. Software and hardwatre for the control system will also be offered.

          The problem we found with SSR switching of AC is the ‘zero-crossing’ thing. They only switch when the line voltage hits this point. There are ‘random’ SSR’s available but for a variety of complex reasons not much better for our purposes. That is why our H-Bridges will switch DC.

          A study of the photos from Miami shows Rossi uses phase controllers in his system, driven by opto-couplers connected to (presumably) a computer/software system devised by him and Fabiani. There is a good view of this in the infamous ‘stethoscope’ picture.

          • LT

            First of all, if you are only using DC for controlling power and generating Hf components, you don’t need an H bridge unless you want to change polarity between pulses. That poses the question if phase reversal between pulses is necessary for triggering the process or that the RF component is enough.
            Secondly, optocouplers are relatively slow devices and thus in general not suited for generating pulses with fast rise and fall times. If you need really fast rise and fall times there are other techniques which can be used. (including special MOS-FEt driver integrated circuits)
            Also steph har is correct that if your heating element is a coil, it will have inductance and there will be back emf. The value of this back emf can be quite high and if no components are present to suppress these voltage spikes and/or reduce them, it can destroy the MOS-FET’s in your driver circuit.

          • Alan Smith

            Hi LT. The opto-couplers are only there to switch the mosfets, so we are with you there- and yes, we do want to produce pulses of opposite polarity. You got it nailed.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Good and yes.

        • psi2u2

          Do you think this is the most probable origin of his comparative success at generating higher reaction rates?

          • Argon

            I can’t say how probable, but possible at least. When you drive heater with square wave impulses, you apply many frequencies (harmonics of base frequency actually). If we think that there is some resonance frequency (of hydrogen?) needed, then with proper adjustment of base frequency could hit resonance with one of the harmonics.

            Problem with low base frequency is that amplitude of next harmonics gets very low very guickly. That’s why I like the idea of separating heater coil from triggering coil (could that be cat/mouse in Rossis terminology?)

            You may like to revisit how square wave cosists of higher harmonics of sine waves combined. Especially chapter ‘Examining the square wave’ with good animation in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave

    • US_Citizen71

      I was talking with a friend who is big into flying quad rotor drones about LENR and the replications that are being done. He suggested a brushless DC speed controller might be useful to produce the power waveforms that have been suggested lately. I thought I would throw this out there for those with a EE background to comment on.

      An informative product review including oscilloscope data : http://multirotorforums.com/threads/product-review-jeti-hicopter-30a-opto-esc.18559/

      Links to data sheets from one of the manufacturers: http://www.jetimodel.com/en/katalog/Speed-Controllers/@od/20/

      Pricing: https://www.electricwingman.com/jeti-multicopter-esc.aspx

    • DrD

      Have you considered avalanche transistors, eg FMMT415 series. They’re more suited to nsec pulse widths but do have extremely high dI/dt and high currents (100A or more). No good for usec or msec pulse widths though.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes, we have considered them when we were looking at potential triggering circuits. Back then we did not have a reliable rector design and monitoring approach, with an Optris and GS 5.x + we thing we have have that covered now – so it becomes easier to focus resources.

  • Mats002

    +1 (not logged in)

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Glad to see possible link between ME356 & MFMP Robert! Always thought high Frequency content from step in current was Rossi’s secret & Godes modus operandi! Rossi’s PC 830 picture of pulse width with reversed current thru his coils always seemed to provide signal to control SPP process & SSM mode of operation! IMHO As an extremely interested observer glad to see ME356 successes & co-operation with MFPM planned! Just as in major Nuclear Plant Control, Monty Shultz author of first Nuclear Reactor Control text always mentioned nuclear reactions were a major control problem it took years of intense development to solve – circa 1960s. Is there still a problem fo Rossi requiring his seemingly constant attention in the MW plant? Fascinated to see final control solution develop! Love to watch ME 356 & his unique techniques develop!

    • Mats002

      Maybe IH realized exactly this back in fall 2015 and that is the reason they turned to Brillouin? IH refused to pay the third downpayment of 89 M$ because Rossi is violating Brilloiun’s IP?

      • psi2u2

        Very interesting thought. I predict a difficult birth. ; )

      • deleo77

        I think Brillouin could really be a factor in IH’s decision not to pay. They had a validation paper published in December. I imagine that Tom Darden read it closely. Yes, the paper was written by another Brillouin investor, so it is by no means independent, but it still might have meant something to Darden. Controlling the reaction is almost as big of a deal as the reaction itself. Brillouin has consistently made claims that their tech can do this and have filed IP related to it.

    • JeffC

      Brillouin controls the reaction by driving the underlying physics through it’s proprietary Q pulse. Mike McKubre verified in the Norway presentation reaction stops immediately when the Q pulse stops. I believe current COP is over 4 and verified at SRI.

      • Alan Smith

        Sure- bound to be a certain amount of ‘ringing’ – a voltage spike as the magnetic field in the heater coils collapses – but as you say, not necessarily a biad thing. I have pondered adding to it by increasing the very small inductance of the coils. Problem is that also changes the shape of the ‘on ramp’ (Delta/V) when you switch the heater circuit on.

  • James Andrew Rovnak

    Glad to see possible link between ME356 & MFMP Robert! Always thought high Frequency content from step in current was Rossi’s secret & Godes modus operandi! Rossi’s PC 830 picture of pulse width with reversed current thru his coils always seemed to provide signal to control SPP process & SSM mode of operation! IMHO As an extremely interested observer glad to see ME356 successes & co-operation with MFPM planned! Just as in major Nuclear Plant Control, Monty Shultz author of first Nuclear Reactor Control text always mentioned nuclear reactions were a major control problem it took years of intense development to solve – circa 1960s. Is there still a problem fo Rossi requiring his seemingly constant attention in the MW plant? Fascinated to see final control solution develop! Love to watch ME 356 & his unique techniques develop!

    • Mats002

      Maybe IH realized exactly this back in fall 2015 and that is the reason they turned to Brillouin? IH refused to pay the third downpayment of 89 M$ because Rossi is violating Brilloiun’s IP?

      • psi2u2

        Very interesting thought. I predict a difficult birth. ; )

      • deleo77

        I think Brillouin could really be a factor in IH’s decision not to pay. They had a validation paper published in December. I imagine that Tom Darden read it closely. Yes, the paper was written by another Brillouin investor, so it is by no means independent, but it still might have meant something to Darden. Controlling the reaction is almost as big of a deal as the reaction itself. Brillouin has consistently made claims that their tech can do this and have filed IP related to it.

    • JeffC

      Brillouin controls the reaction by driving the underlying physics through it’s proprietary Q pulse. Mike McKubre verified in the Norway presentation reaction stops immediately when the Q pulse stops. I believe current COP is over 4 and verified at SRI.

  • Zephir

    /* Emmissions (RF, electrons and UV) during the test were so strong that my
    control circuit was absolutely crazy even that it was 3 meters away –
    it is unusable */

    These emissions aren’t actually dangerous. The neutrons are more difficult to detect – yet they’re much more dangerous.

    • Zephir

      There is also interesting pin-point character of cold fusion initiated heating, as visible at multiple Me356’s pictures. I can’t imagine the physical process which could heat the thick alumina tube in this way other than some kind of particle jet, escaping from reaction site:

      http://i.imgur.com/CyLqId5.gif

      • Ecco

        I think that’s the laser light of the IR thermometer he uses.

        • Mats002

          Yes that is the Pyrometer he use for the Power control as I understand it.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is the Voltcraft IR 2200 which has two lasers that should converge for accurate temperature measurement at the spot of convergence.

        • Zephir

          Possibly, but IR has violet color in most cameras? But I saw this effect at another photos of Me356 too http://i.imgur.com/43G1iRW.gif

          • Anon2012_2014

            (me356 photos)

            But what are we looking at?

            A glass tube with what gas in it being excited by a neon sign transformer?

            A tube furnace at one end of the black tube?

            Two hotspots on one of the tube furnace photos in the center, perhaps where a set of wires breaks the otherwise uniform insulation?

            No diagram, no explanation other than read all 50 pages of random posts on lenr-forum.

            These photos are not helpful, just confusing.

            Can someone wake me up when we get a definitive write-up/diagram.

  • Zephir

    /* Emmissions (RF, electrons and UV) during the test were so strong that my
    control circuit was absolutely crazy even that it was 3 meters away –
    it is unusable */

    These emissions aren’t actually dangerous. The neutrons are more difficult to detect – yet they’re much more dangerous. If me365 says his plasma reactor vessel is still emitting neutrons 3 days after he shut it down, you can see the DANGER!

    • Zephir

      There is also interesting pin-point character of cold fusion initiated heating, as visible at multiple Me356’s pictures. I can’t imagine the physical process which could heat the thick alumina tube in this way other than some kind of particle jet, escaping from reaction site:

      http://i.imgur.com/CyLqId5.gif

      • Ecco

        I think that’s the laser light of the IR thermometer he uses.

        • Mats002

          Yes that is the Pyrometer he use for the Power control as I understand it.

          • Bob Greenyer

            It is the Voltcraft IR 2200 which has two lasers that should converge for accurate temperature measurement at the spot of convergence.

        • Zephir

          Possibly, but IR has violet color in most cameras? But I saw this effect at another photos of Me356 too http://i.imgur.com/43G1iRW.gif

          • Anon2012_2014

            (me356 photos)

            But what are we looking at?

            A glass tube with what gas in it being excited by a neon sign transformer?

            A tube furnace at one end of the black tube?

            Two hotspots on one of the tube furnace photos in the center, perhaps where a set of wires breaks the otherwise uniform insulation?

            No diagram, no explanation other than read all 50 pages of random posts on lenr-forum.

            These photos are not helpful, just confusing.

            Can someone wake me up when we get a definitive write-up/diagram.

  • Mats002

    Arduino have 16MHz clock (might be different versions with higher frequency, I don’t know from memory) and I think it is sufficient. The problem is in the power amplifier part as Bob picture above. This is Brillioun solution: http://www.google.com/patents/US20070268045?dq=20070268045&ei=5HuQT9CvJOegiQLompD3Ag
    and
    http://www.google.com/patents/US20070206715?dq=20070206715&ei=jaSQT9KmIaWjiQLW7dyQAw

    If this is what makes me356 reactor successful, I don’t know, he might do several things. Can’t wait to be informed 🙂 !

    • Mats002

      From Brillioun patent:

      “Currently due to hardware/software in use, events are being run at 1518.8 Hz or 658 μS. This represents a 16-bit PWM with a 99.5328 MHz clock.”

      • Mats002

        Note about this: The clock frequency is not important for PWM as long as it is fast enough to produce the modulation and that is even below KHz. The steep change from 0 to 1 (0 – 5 V if that is what is driving the digital curcuits) and equals fast OFF 1 to 0 is the driver. That steepness must be conserved in the power feed to the load (coil) and that is what counts here. (I make an Axil and sound like I know without doubt).

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Me356 “If power output is limited, you are safe.” I don’t get it, if both Rossi and me356 can safely get heat at 100C, why not get that reactor into the market place as fast as possible.

    • LarryJ

      It’s a long and winding road from the lab to the showroom floor.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        They are not even trying for the market, it seems they are trying to hit home runs when a single will prove concept.

    • Steve Swatman

      because having a working reactor that can be pushed by the press of a button or a little hack to emit neutron bursts is never going to be allowed out in the wild, control and security is paramount.

      • Rene

        Just like jiggering with the latch safeties on a microwave oven then turning it on can cook your eyeballs in a few seconds, maybe even ill you. Those kinds of arguments are without merit because safety protocols in designs is what makes for safe (to some high percentage) products.

        • Rene

          Disagree, examples cited. Feel free to look through the body of product literature.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Me356 “If power output is limited, you are safe.” I don’t get it, if both Rossi and me356 can safely get heat at 100C, why not get that reactor into the market place as fast as possible.

    • LarryJ

      It’s a long and winding road from the lab to the showroom floor.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        They are not even trying for the market, it seems they are trying to hit home runs when a single will prove concept.

    • Steve Swatman

      because having a working reactor that can be pushed by the press of a button or a little hack to emit neutron bursts is never going to be allowed out in the wild, control and security is paramount.

      • Rene

        Just like jiggering with the latch safeties on a microwave oven then turning it on can cook your eyeballs in a few seconds, maybe even ill you. Those kinds of arguments are without merit because safety protocols in designs is what makes for safe (to some high percentage) products.

        • Steve Swatman

          Rene, these arguments may be without merit in your eyes, even in my eyes, however, for the lawyers, the anti-lenr groups, the child safety board, oil, gas and coal lobby groups, these arguments are very, very much with merit, and are what will kill LENR if a proven, safe model is not the first to hit the market. This is why Mr Rossi is not releasing information, Imho.

          • Rene

            Disagree, examples cited. Feel free to look through the body of product literature.

          • Steve Swatman

            Rene feel free to disagree, however, you seem to ignore the money and power that has the ability to create problems for LENR, this is why Rossi and any partner has to create a foolproof product before introducing it too the world, the same reasons behind Rossi not offering his mixture and control mechanisms, once they can be tested in the wild, the powerful opponents will create death and destruction, and use those deaths and destruction to halt LENR in its tracks. expensive lawyers will fight for years to stop a product hitting the market, that is what they do, that is what they are paid for, case after case, court after court, country after country, the fight would go on for years and all LENR production, sales and marketing would be halted while the courts deliberate and the lawyers keep getting paid.

            each new step to make Lenr devices safer will be assassinated, each new latch will be tested and broken, remade, tested and broken, untill the courts say its safe enough, so 1yr, 3yrs, 5-10,20yrs of courts, lawyers and misinformation, 1-20yrs of misinformation, obfuscation and more status quo in the power industry.

            These are the reasons rossi and me356 shouldnt be handing out all their information… neutron burts? wow, rossit mention that a few years ago when hitting high cops, he then proceeded to create a control mechanism, different mixtures etc, once he can prove his product is safe, ot can released into the wild, before that is courting disaster.

          • Rene

            That is an interesting conspiracy theory.

          • Steve Swatman

            If you think of that as a conspiracy theory you should take off the tin foil hat you are wearing, business is a tough world, big business is even harder, when a large corporation invests 10’s of billions of dollars in the future, spending another couple of billion to stop a rival is “just standard practice”.

    • Horshu

      Something something nuclear reactor.
      In other words, while it may be safe prima facia, it’s still generating radiation. What happens when a kid dismantles one and shows up on TV a few days later bloated and dying?

      • Rene

        Same can be said for dismantling a NiCad battery – death. Slightly different by similar end-state issues dismantling a lithium battery. There are problems dismantling a home fire sensor and ingesting the Americium in it. In other words, there are many common home products that are seriously unsafe when dismantled resulting in cancer or death. You cannot stop people from earning Darwin awards.

        • Horshu

          A NiCad battery “exploding” is going to be relatively mild compared to a nuclear reaction. Like a firecracker in your hand. Lithium is even worse, but it’s still just strong redox. Maybe a kid swallows it, but they can still go to poison control. Americium is worse due to ingestion, but it’s still a very small amount in a highly regulated device that sits about 8 feet in the air.
          Now, a friggin’ reactor in the home is a different animal. If all that’s separating this thing – that can hit 1000 degrees – from blasting out neutrons and x-rays is a few mm of lead, then you can’t just dump them on the consumer market. Not to mention, being poisoned by nuclear radiation is much, much worse than most kinds of poisons we’ve got.

          • Mats002

            Agree. We accept cars and cigarettes in our society and have calculated the risk for injury and death. We accept them. I don’t accept hot nuclear because damage can be so much wider. Cold nuclear is within acceptable limits I believe.

          • Rene

            Wasn’t talking about exploding. The cadmium will kill you with virulent cancer. The lithium will kill a person if they swallow it. The point is that things that are intrinsically unsafe can be made into safe. It doesn’t matter how something will kill you or cause you great harm. What matters is how can those attributes be isolated or controlled to make a safe product. That process is called engineering.

      • US_Citizen71

        A light bulb generates ‘radiation’. It is all about at what frequency and energy level.

        • Horshu

          Oh, Christ-on-a-cracker, that’s pretty weak semantic sauce you’ve got there. Does anyone here (other than some part of your psyche) really think that when I’m saying something generating radiation, I just mean “photons” or “energy”? I think it’s quite obvious that the above usage of “radiation” refers to the dangerous kind. X-rays, gamma, alpha, etc.
          And again, I’m talking about scales. Most of us might have experience experimenting with firecrackers and other combustibles, lasers (probably red), etc. but the damage that a nuclear reactor can do is on a totally different level. This isn’t a damn light bulb, and you trying to imply their similarity in that they both spit out photons is disingenuous at best.

          • US_Citizen71

            Deadly radiations are generated all around us. A fluorescent light bulb or metal halide lamp produces deadly UV-C at their core for example. You can even buy UV-C light bulbs and LEDs without restriction so far no deaths. Your first post is FUD as the materials are not inherently radioactive so dismantling them would only entail the inherent dangers the ingredients pose chemically. If you are going to post FUD I am going to make fun of it, deal with it!

      • US_Citizen71

        Bigger question, what happens when a kid builds a nuclear reactor? The world doesn’t seem to end as it has been done multiple times before.

        TEEN BUILDS BASEMENT NUCLEAR REACTOR – http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2007-03/popsci-videoteen-builds-basement-nuclear-reactor

        Why This 14-Year-Old Kid Built a Nuclear Reactor – http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/150726-nuclear-reactor-fusion-science-kid-ngbooktalk/

        13-year-old builds working nuclear fusion reactor – http://www.cnet.com/news/13-year-old-builds-working-nuclear-fusion-reactor/

        • Mats002

          Worst case: the kid is lost from radiation and possibly some people close to the reactor. Any other suggestions?

          • US_Citizen71

            My point was, the whole what if a kid takes it apart angle is a bit like talking about locking the barn after the horses have run away.

        • Rene
  • Alan Smith

    Hi LT. The opto-couplers are only there to switch the mosfets, so we are with you there- and yes, we do want to produce pulses of opposite polarity. You got it nailed.

  • pelgrim108
  • pelgrim108

    Edit:

  • Rene

    Same can be said for dismantling a NiCad battery – death. Slightly different by similar end-state issues dismantling a lithium battery. There are problems dismantling a home fire sensor and ingesting the Americium in it. In other words, there are many common home products that are seriously unsafe when dismantled resulting in cancer or death. You cannot stop people from earning Darwin awards.

  • Private Citizen

    Seems to be some confusion about radiation danger.

    Me356 claims to have made TWO reactors: one an apparent tube furnace that melted right away without dangerous radiation, but a possible runaway SSM; and a second, plasma reactor, said responsible for neutron radiation even after switched off.

    To my memory, there was no claim of excess heat with the plasma reactor. Could be wrong here.

    There currently is [well accepted LENR technology](http://phys.org/news/2006-02-tabletop-nuclear-fusion-device.html) that makes neutrons, but not excess heat.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      You can also take the Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor as an example:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9DXecl-OX8

      Maybe me356’s plasma reactor is an optimized version of this device?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’ve just noticed that the link does not work. You may Google “homemade fusor (nuclear fusion reactor) – neutron and x-ray radiation, silver activation”.

        • US_Citizen71

          goo.gl/uFXVZQ

    • Argon

      Yes, there seems to be ‘campaign’ ongoing. Look at amount of new accounts suddenly appearing here purposely misunderstanding what Me356 said.
      Be prepared on many postings concerned just on ‘dangerous radiation of LENR’.

  • Private Citizen

    Seems to be some confusion about radiation danger.

    Me356 claims to have made TWO reactors: one an apparent tube furnace that melted right away without dangerous radiation, but a possible runaway SSM; and a second, plasma reactor, said responsible for neutron radiation even after switched off.

    To my memory, there was no claim of excess heat with the plasma reactor. Could be wrong here.

    There currently is well accepted LENR technology that makes neutrons, but not excess heat.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      You can also take the Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor as an example:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9DXecl-OX8

      Maybe me356’s plasma reactor is an optimized version of this device?

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I’ve just noticed that the link does not work. You may Google “homemade fusor (nuclear fusion reactor) – neutron and x-ray radiation, silver activation”.

    • Argon

      Yes, there seems to be ‘campaign’ ongoing. Look at amount of new accounts suddenly appearing here purposely misunderstanding what Me356 said.
      Be prepared on many postings concerned just on ‘dangerous radiation of LENR’.

  • US_Citizen71

    A light bulb generates ‘radiation’. It is all about at what frequency and energy level.

  • US_Citizen71

    Bigger question, what happens when a kid builds a nuclear reactor? The world doesn’t seem to end as it has been done multiple times before.

    TEEN BUILDS BASEMENT NUCLEAR REACTOR – http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2007-03/popsci-videoteen-builds-basement-nuclear-reactor

    Why This 14-Year-Old Kid Built a Nuclear Reactor – http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/150726-nuclear-reactor-fusion-science-kid-ngbooktalk/

    13-year-old builds working nuclear fusion reactor – http://www.cnet.com/news/13-year-old-builds-working-nuclear-fusion-reactor/

    • Mats002

      Worst case: the kid is lost from radiation and possibly some people close to the reactor. Any other suggestions?

      • US_Citizen71

        My point was, the whole what if a kid takes it apart angle is a bit like talking about locking the barn after the horses have run away.

    • Rene
  • US_Citizen71

    Deadly radiations are generated all around us. A fluorescent light bulb or metal halide lamp produces deadly UV-C at their core for example. You can even buy UV-C light bulbs and LEDs without restriction so far no deaths. Your first post is FUD as the materials are not inherently radioactive so dismantling them would only entail the inherent dangers the ingredients pose chemically. If you are going to post FUD I am going to make fun of it, deal with it!

  • US_Citizen71

    Are you seriously expecting to be taken seriously with a just created Discus account? Seriously?

    “Are you seriously comparing the radiation from a nuclear reaction to that of a light bulb?” – Sure why not? Anything can be compared, it is the basis of this thing called science.

  • Axil Axil

    There has been something that has been bugging me for months now. Now, it is time to vent.

    How can we know what kinds of particles are being produced by the LENR reaction. For example, Holmlid states that he is producing a boatload of neutral particles but little or no neutrons.

    How can we tell the difference between a neutral particle and a neutron of the same energy. First of all, what are neutral particles and where do they come from?

    These fragments of molecules are most likely pieces of metalized hydrogen that have been blasted apart by nuclear reactions that have been catalyzed by the LENR reaction. These are ions that have been neutralized but still have lots of kinetic energy that have been imparted to these molecular fragments by LENR reactions.

    These fragments are far larger than neutrons and cannot enter into the nuclei of atoms to form unstable isotopes. So the difference in the behavior of these two neutral particles: neutrons and neutral particles are as follows:

    They both will look the same on a bubble detector.

    The neutral particle might produce a gamma when it hits reactor structure but it might not if the LENR reaction is suppressing gamma.

    We want to shield both types of particles from entering the body but the shielding is different. Neutrons are far more penetrating because they are smaller.

    The neutron will be absorbed by reactor structure and will produce gamma when the resulting unstable isotope emits gamma radiation at a later time. This is called activation.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation

    “Neutron activation is the process in which neutron radiation induces radioactivity in materials, and occurs when atomic nuclei capture free neutrons, becoming heavier and entering excited states. The excited nucleus often decays immediately by emitting gamma rays, or particles such as beta particles, alpha particles, fission products and neutrons (in nuclear fission). Thus, the process of neutron capture, even after any intermediate decay, often results in the formation of an unstable activation product. Such radioactive nuclei can exhibit half-lives ranging from small fractions of a second to many years.”

    If Me356 does not see gamma during his run, he is being protected by the LENR radiation shield. But is he sees gammas long after the test are over when the gamma shield has dissipated, those neutral particles might be neutrons.

    What makes neutrons dangerous is the long lasting activation based radiation that remains over a long period of time when the unstable isotopes are being stabilized. If Me356 is not seeing latent radiation from neutron activation, then those particles MIGHT be neutral particles.

    LENR is a new type of nuclear reaction so much work still needs to be done to evaluate what types of subatomic and molecular particles are being generated. MFMP et al has this definition as its highest priority, IMHO.

    ———————————————–
    me356 responds as follows:

    axil: I fully agree with you and I admit it is possible. Each experiment is little bit different because of design and other techniques.

    The latest experiment generated high neutron flux while no measurable gamma.

    Although I have measured neutrons for a few times when reactor was turned off (for period of days) after such period reactors are always clean and nothing seems to be activated.

    But a lot of investigation is needed.

    • I’d like to learn more about “Neutral” particles.

    • Zephir

      /* How can we tell the difference between a neutral particle and a neutron of the same energy */

      Easily, neutrons make everything radioactive for weeks after experiments, as me356 observed

      /* They both will look the same on a bubble detector. */

      Molecules wouldn’t pass the wall of bubble detector.

      • Axil Axil

        “Easily, neutrons make everything radioactive for weeks after experiments, as me356 observed”

        Show that quate to me. I say that you just made this fact up.

        • Zephir

          Why? You’re not paying me enough for it.

          • Axil Axil

            How much is your credibility worth?

      • Axil Axil

        “Molecules wouldn’t pass the wall of bubble detector.”

        A hydrogen atom will pass through glass easily.

        • Stephen

          Axil its a good point about the permeability of Hydrogen atoms.

          I wonder if small pieces of Holmlid’s, H(0) and D(0) would be even more permeable? Bearing in mind the very close spacing of the nuclei 2.3 pm of in this state would small pieces of H0 or D0 be comparable in size or even smaller maybe than a typical H atom? I think He for example which has 2 protons with 2 orbital electrons is even smaller and more permeable than atomic H.

          If so I have some wild speculations, some of which you may be in line with ideas you have already considered and mentioned and am interested in your thoughts.

          I suppose pieces of H(0) and D(0) could look bit like a heavy neutron in some detectors too if ejected? I wonder if this would be the case across different kinds of detectors though. But perhaps normal neutrons are also produced.

          I suppose this could explain the heavy neutral particles seen by Holmlid if they occur?

          I wonder if they could be detected if they look like Neutrons to other materials. For example maybe to particles with high neutron cross-sections such as Boron 10 but produce different daughter products than expected?

          On the other hand maybe they could be triggered to normal RM such as H(1) or D(1) or maybe even normal H2 gas after interacting with other matter. If we see much less activation of other particles than expected this might be a possible explanation. It would also be quite a good and safe outcome, if these heavy neutral particles become safe H2 gas.

          Do we know if H(0) or D(0) would chemically interact and disintegrate in water or an oxygenated atmosphere? If so maybe this is why they are not observed in the e-cat?

          If instead of disintegrating, pieces of H(0) and D(0) are captured in water that could be interesting too. If they can be collected that way and released following evaporation of the water it could be a useful way to collect H(0) and D(0) particles. Who knows what applications that material can have even outside the field of LENR. I can imagine all kinds of Nano tech devices, plasmonics, LENR on a chip applications, fuel storage and radiation shielding making use of it in some way?

          Did I hear Randell Mills is able to collect and store his “Hydrinos” some how? Could this material in fact be H(0) and D(0) matter rather than his classic Hydrinos?

          I wonder what a spectral signature would be of this kind of material. I suppose the usual quantum mechanical orbitals would be changed quite a lot form normal Hydrogen.

  • Rene

    Wasn’t talking about exploding. The cadmium will kill you with virulent cancer. The lithium will kill a person if they swallow it. The point is that things that are intrinsically unsafe can be made into safe. It doesn’t matter how something will kill you or cause you great harm. What matters is how can those attributes be isolated or controlled to make a safe product. That process is called engineering.

  • akupaku

    me356’s experiences quite confirm what I have been saying a couple of times before in other threads here. I would not like to be among the first ones to have a LENR reactor running in my house before we really know and understand in detail what is happening in LENR and that all possible border case scenarios are under control and fully understood.

  • @me356 is planning another “high cop” experiment this week:

    I hope that next week will show some more fruits as my new reactor is finished. This one might be candidate for 3-5kW prototype (note that heater can output just around 1kW).
    It looks very differently than any other I have built previously. There should be nearly no heat loss. My hopes are that it can run for at least week with excess heat.
    You can take it, plug it into system in notime and start it – can produce excess heat in 5-10 minutes. If this is true, we will see.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=19105#post19105

    This could lead to a first reactor which could be shipped pre-built to MFMP and others for their own measurements and tests.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Bob G said that he would visit me356 next week – so we might get some preliminary information soon. I think that independent testing or a replication attempt by MFMP will follow.

    • Private Citizen

      Good luck and great success to me356. Looking forward to open scientific confirmation of LENR.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I smell the “safety” card being played by the propagandists!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Then they would have to admit LENR is real.

      • Zephir

        Gotcha!

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I am hearing amateurs should not experiment, “even if it does work, and it doesn’t, experimenting might release life threatening neutrons, so amateurs should not experiment.” and “Do not experiment any where near your family” And then we have Rossi on the subject today, “We made permanent monitoring on the matter and never detected any neutron emission outside the E-Cat beyond the background, above the margin of error of the instrumentation.”

        • Dave Lawton

          I have to agree with Rossi.It is just background.The only thing to fear is fear.I spent my youth crawling on my belly underneath beamlines of a proton synchrotron to fix our particle detectors while the machine was running.I`m still alive today.And there was a lot of radiation about.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I smell the “safety” card being played by the propagandists!

    • Bob Greenyer

      Then they would have to admit LENR is real.

      • Zephir

        Gotcha!

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I am hearing amateurs should not experiment, “even if it does work, and it doesn’t, experimenting might release life threatening neutrons, so amateurs should not experiment.” and “Do not experiment any where near your family” And then we have Rossi on the subject today, “We made permanent monitoring on the matter and never detected any neutron emission outside the E-Cat beyond the background, above the margin of error of the instrumentation.”

        • Dave Lawton

          I have to agree with Rossi.It is just background.The only thing to fear is fear.I spent my youth crawling on my belly underneath beamlines of a proton synchrotron to fix our particle detectors while the machine was running.I`m still alive today.And there was a lot of radiation about.

        • Horshu

          If an amateur wants to experiment, then by all means, go ahead. But I don’t see Rossi saying the E-Cat doesn’t generate neutron emission; just that it doesn’t leave the device (which IIRC was shielded by either Pb or W). If someone doesn’t know what they’re dealing with (i.e. amateur), then might disregard the shielding (for even a moment) and do themselves a disservice (understatement). Just looking at the MFMP 5.3, there’s a dogbone and then several inches before there’s shielding. My worry is that someone could absent-mindedly put their hand in between to make some (quick) adjustment and harm themselves. Kind of like people who smoke while filling up…they know it’s dangerous, but both tasks become so routine that the danger aspect isn’t even on the radar at the moment.

    • Hans van Pel

      Yes! The propagandists are right. And we should from now on also stop using barbecues. According to the U.S. Fire Administration, about 5,700 grill fires take place on residential property every year, causing an annual average of $37 million in damage, 100 injuries and 10 deaths.

      • Private Citizen

        “And we should from now on also stop using barbecues. “

        Or garage mechanics dealing with gas tanks containing 15 times the energy density of TNT, or folks wiring home electric systems capable of frying one dead in seconds.

        Safety card is a bit bogus. Assume, anticipate the risks and take precautions if you venture into tinkering.

  • Argon

    me356 seems to indicate that higher power output leads to higher radiation energy levels.
    Can we conclude in reverse that Rossi is targeting small Quark-X:s to avoid chance on harmful radiation energies?

    You may still get high total power by using numerous small devices.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=19185#post19185

  • Axil Axil

    If LENR removes ionizing radiation from every interaction between a particle or clusters of particles and the environment, what does that imply for our understanding of nuclear physics and allied fields?

    I wonder what the interaction between neutrons and living tissue is when gamma radiation is removed from that interaction? If the isotope of carbon changes in a cell from 12 to 13, is that harmful. If the neutron count of iron in the blood is increased by one, if that harmful?

    Without ionizing radiation, does isotopic change adversely affect an organism?

    If test equipment that is designed to detect ionization from neutrons does not see that ionization, does that failure to detect that radiation mean that no neutrons were produced?

    Without ionizing radiation, it might be that particle vaporization tracks in a supersaturated medium are the only detection method that can see neutrons produced by LENR.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Neutron capture leads to radioactive decay in case that the resulting nucleus is unstable. If the neutron is not captured but inelastically scattered the target nucleus gets excited and emits gammas when it returns to its ground state.

      In addition, not all isotopes (even stable ones) are biologically compatible. For example, organisms do not work with heavy water due its slightly different chemical properties.

      • Axil Axil

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyK6kPi8k78

        They say that it take 50% saturation of D2O to kill,

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          What! Who is “pooh – poohing” safety, I am simply quoting Rossi from two days ago:

          Andrea Rossi

          May 9, 2016 at 3:33 PM

          LookMoo:

          This is why we need to gain a safety certification.

          We already got the safety certification for the industrial plants and we are close to obtain the safety certification for the domestic, I think.

          The reason is that all the measurements made on out e-Cats during their operation have never detected ionizing radiations outside the E-Cats.

          The measurements of the ionizing radiations around our E-Cats have been also made by professional experts of the matter.

          Warm Regards,

          A.R.

          And:

          Andrea Rossi

          May 9, 2016 at 9:50 AM

          James Rovnak:

          We made permanent monitoring on the matter and never detected any neutron emission outside the E-Cat beyond the background, above the margin of error of the instrumentation.

          Warm Regards,

          A.R.

  • Axil Axil

    If LENR removes ionizing radiation from every interaction between a particle or clusters of particles and the environment, what does that imply for our understanding of nuclear physics and allied fields?

    I wonder what the interaction between neutrons and living tissue is when gamma radiation is removed from that interaction? If the isotope of carbon changes in a cell from 12 to 13, is that harmful. If the neutron count of iron in the blood is increased by one, if that harmful?

    Without ionizing radiation, does isotopic change adversely affect an organism?

    If test equipment that is designed to detect ionization from neutrons does not see that ionization, does that failure to detect that radiation mean that no neutrons were produced?

    Without ionizing radiation, it might be that particle vaporization tracks in a supersaturated medium are the only detection method that can see neutrons produced by LENR.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Neutron capture leads to radioactive decay in case that the resulting nucleus is unstable. If the neutron is not captured but inelastically scattered the target nucleus gets excited and emits gammas when it returns to its ground state.

      In addition, not all isotopes (even stable ones) are biologically compatible. For example, organisms do not work with heavy water due its slightly different chemical properties.

      • Axil Axil

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyK6kPi8k78

        They say that it take 50% saturation of D2O to kill,

        “Despite the fact the light water and heavy water are chemically identical, heavy water is mildly toxic. How can this be? Since heavy water is heavier than normal water, the speed of chemical reactions involving it is altered somewhat, as is the strength of some types of bonds it forms. This affects certain cellular processes, notably mitosis, or cell division, due to the difference in binding energy in the hydrogen bonds needed to make certain proteins. Mouse studies have shown that drinking only heavy water along with normal feed eventually causes degeneration of tissues that need to replenish themselves frequently, and leads to cumulative damage from injuries that don’t heal as quickly. One study likens the effects to those suffered by chemotherapy patients. Heavy water toxicity manifests itself when about 50% of the water in the body has been replaced by D2O. Prolonged heavy water consumption can cause death.”

  • Bob

    To some of the posters below… you may be newer to this story and not familiar with earlier Rossi posts on the subject or you may have selective memory… .
    .
    Rossi himself stated that the eCat could produce harmful radiation … please see
    .
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/17/neutron-detection-and-the-e-cat/
    .and
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/19/rossi-on-the-safety-of-cop-6/
    .
    It is not the “Safety Card” by propagandist. It is common sense. I guess people would have told Marie Curie to not worry about her work as well. To bad she died of anemia contributed to radiation poisoning.
    .
    I am not saying that people should not experiment, I AM saying that they should be careful and be educated. Those here who want to “pooh – pooh” the idea of safety, then let them go ahead and risk their own lives, but do not encourage others to risk health and welfare from the unknown based upon blind faith and not understanding what could happen!
    ..
    Even some of the alumina and Lithium compounds can be extremely dangerous. Again, it simply calls for education and safety. To barge in without knowing what you are doing can be fatal! ME356, Celani, MFMP and even Rossi have ALL reported radiation signatures. Some high, some low, some brief, but detected none the less. People SHOULD take caution with this! One would be foolish not to!
    .
    For instance, Joseph Papp claimed to have novel energy system. During a demonstration, it exploded and killed a person! They actually DIED! Not some theoretical possibly, he is six feet under ground! He left relatives behind. Death is permanent!
    .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
    .
    Again, some want this to be true so bad, that anything that might cast a negative light on it is automatically and blindly criticized! Safety should ALWAYS be considered. And if that is not enough, then consider the very words from the “master” himself!

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      What! Who is “pooh – poohing” safety, I am simply quoting Rossi from two days ago. I do know the late Sergio Focardi, who I respect a lot on the subject, working with Rossi was very concerned about the safety issue.

      Andrea Rossi

      May 9, 2016 at 3:33 PM

      LookMoo:

      This is why we need to gain a safety certification.

      We already got the safety certification for the industrial plants and we are close to obtain the safety certification for the domestic, I think.

      The reason is that all the measurements made on out e-Cats during their operation have never detected ionizing radiations outside the E-Cats.

      The measurements of the ionizing radiations around our E-Cats have been also made by professional experts of the matter.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

      And:

      Andrea Rossi

      May 9, 2016 at 9:50 AM

      James Rovnak:

      We made permanent monitoring on the matter and never detected any neutron emission outside the E-Cat beyond the background, above the margin of error of the instrumentation.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

  • Rene

    That is an interesting conspiracy theory.

    • Steve Swatman

      If you think of that as a conspiracy theory you should take off the tin foil hat you are wearing, business is a tough world, big business is even harder, when a large corporation invests 10’s of billions of dollars in the future, spending another couple of billion to stop a rival is “just standard practice”.

  • Argon

    What I’m afraid is that we will again be disappointed. Many signs points to direction me356 is in path doing ‘Teslas’ (seal his miracle chest) considering his latest warnings about emissions and wild replication attempts that would follow if he would publish his recipes.

    I can very well understand him after seeing what researchers have been going through since F&P-89. By publishing layman instructions, how to replicate, could lead into some number of accidents, when unprofessional replicators would be keen to tune up the COP which is not safe according to me356.
    Why would he be volunteer to bear that responsibility and consequences.

    What will be his new direction is probably do the ‘Rossis’ so develop his understanding of phenomenon further to better and safer product he can patent an get some payback on his persistent work on it.

    I would summarize that this explains also Rossis actions since 2011 and latest dispute with IH. Rossi was keeping people interested by feeding his crowd with small bits of information (and also misinformation) in JONP. This way Rossi bought precious time to improve his understanding of phenomenon and design his product (E-Cat, Hot cat and Quark-X). As I said before Rossi was happy with 89+11 m$ price tag + royalties with E-Cat technology of that time. Now he has learned better design (Quark-X) and price tag is not right anymore, and from IH point of view old license lost its value (substance of aged technology) if it does not cover Quark-X technology.

    If I would be me356 I would come to same conclusion about revealing recipe to public domain, before IP is on place. We have to understand that train is moving so fast at the moment that winning configuration is propably not yet even discovered and thus not patented, so why give recipe to public domain where also competition could pick up to speed. This community part is only half of the story, since there would also be commercial competition sharks no matter what Hank and many others would like (I would love to see community version also).

    I hope @me356 and @bobgreenyer:disqus comes to some innovative solution when they meet. Maybe they find a way to be just a ‘little pregnant’.

  • me356’s most recent posts on LENR Forum help explain his approach. He sincerely wants to get this technology out to the world but fears the personal destruction that comes along with it (he references Parkhomov as an example of jumping too soon).

    So he wants bulletproof/repeatable and he wants to remain anonymous to protect his quality of life.

    In light of this it is likely he will choose MFMP as the mechanism of sharing his knowledge. There is already a connection and MFMP is perfectly positioned to help him reach his goals. If he can teach Greenyer next week what works and what doesn’t, MFMP will start seeing significant, verifiable excess heat and possibly particles within weeks. Then there will be a cycle of triple-checking and refinement.

    And then it’ll be out.

    • Private Citizen

      Too late, me357 already claimed to have a surefire way to trigger LENR at will, thus pulling a Parkamov.

      He could just openly say, here is exactly what I’m doing and it seems to be producing a lot of excess energy: you try it–AND BE CAREFUL!.

      Instead he is acting more like Rossi than Parkamov (which is his choice if his aim is other than open science). Hopefully if he connects with MFMP, we will see some actual data and details of the mechanism.

      Haven’t read his latest posts, so perhaps he already is revealing all, in which case, that’s all one can ask.

      • He is already diverging from Rossi’s behavior by ostensibly agreeing to meet with Bob Greenyer of MFMP.

        However if that amounts to nothing, we get no paper or disclosure and the posts claiming wild success continue for weeks bleeding into months then I think it’d be safe to say we would be approaching Rossi behavior. Let’s let this play out and see what happens before condemning the guy.

        People vouch for him and he’s been relatively open about his experiments going back for quite awhile. If he’s another scammer ( ? ) then his set up has been elaborate and well planned. I think he’s obviously legit and will eventually disperse his knowledge on his terms. He is right to be cautious, I think.

    • Private Citizen

      “And we should from now on also stop using barbecues. ”

      Or garage mechanics dealing with gas tanks containing 15 times the energy density of TNT, or folks wiring home electric systems capable of frying one dead in seconds.

      Safety card is a bit bogus. Assume, anticipate the risks and take precautions if you venture into tinkering.

    • psi2u2

      Good thinking all around.

  • me356’s most recent posts on LENR Forum help explain his approach. He sincerely wants to get this technology out to the world but fears the personal destruction that comes along with it (he references Parkhomov as an example of jumping too soon).

    So he wants bulletproof/repeatable and he wants to remain anonymous to protect his quality of life.

    In light of this it is likely he will choose MFMP as the mechanism of sharing his knowledge. There is already a connection and MFMP is perfectly positioned to help him reach his goals. If he can teach Greenyer next week what works and what doesn’t, MFMP will start seeing significant, verifiable excess heat and possibly particles within weeks. Then there will be a cycle of triple-checking and refinement.

    And then it’ll be out.

    • tular

      what happened to Parkhomov?

    • Private Citizen

      Too late, me356 already claimed to have a surefire way to trigger LENR at will, thus pulling a Parkamov–actually not being as forthcoming as Parkamov.

      He could just openly say, here is exactly what I’m doing and it seems to be producing a lot of excess energy: you try it–AND BE CAREFUL!. Sure you’ll get questions, that’s what happens when you publish science.

      Instead he is acting more like Rossi than Parkamov (which is his choice if his aim is other than open science). Hopefully if he connects with MFMP, we will see some actual data and details of the mechanism.

      Haven’t read his latest posts, so perhaps he already is revealing all, in which case, that’s all one can ask.

      • He is already diverging from Rossi’s behavior by ostensibly agreeing to meet with Bob Greenyer of MFMP.

        However if that amounts to nothing, we get no paper or disclosure and the posts claiming wild success continue for weeks bleeding into months then I think it’d be safe to say we would be approaching Rossi behavior. Let’s let this play out and see what happens before condemning the guy.

        People vouch for him and he’s been relatively open about his experiments going back for quite awhile. If he’s another scammer ( ? ) then his set up has been elaborate and well planned. I think he’s obviously legit and will eventually disperse his knowledge on his terms. He is right to be cautious, I think.

    • psi2u2

      Good thinking all around.

    • help_lenr

      As I understood – me356 builds now a new reactor, not the one assisted by plasma fusor. The new reactor should be safer and should work at least 7 days non stop, its power will be 5 kW or so. He doesn’t want to work more on the reactor assisted by plasma fusor because it is not safe. Since the new reactor has not been tested yet, he cannot show its operation to any body these days. It is too early to talk about cooperation with MFMP, before he has done experiments with the new reactor.

      This is what I understood, I might be wrong.

  • In me356’s words:
    “And the very simple reason (but not just this) why I don’t intend to reveal any data IMMEDIATELY, that I don’t want to be a next Parkhomov. He written detailed reports, but still it was not enough for mass replication. Then he was discredited as all others for being fraud, etc. He is receiving endlessly messages with many questions. So it was a big mistake for him and I doubt he will ever do this again.”

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=19411#post19411

  • Ged

    So then, your assumption there is that -all- of the energy is being released as detectable neutrons? Of course that means there would be no detected excess heat in that case.

    Neutrons, if they escape out of the reactor so as to be detectable, would be an unrecoverable energy loss from our point of view as they would not be heating the reactor–and obviously the dynamics of the system show that isn’t so. Worst yet for that previous assumption base is that many fusion pathways do not necessarily make neutrons, such as those involving D-D (neutrons can occasionally occur as one of three possible outcomes of the high energy 4He attempting to stabilize) or 6Li, though reactions involving 7Li can make neutrons which could cause further events with 6Li (using up the released neutron), as can deuterium with tritium. So, one has to determine approximately what fusion mechanisms you want to discuss and model for LENR to decide what a reasonable neutron production rate would be per Watt.

    But, let us use some facts and make some comparisons.

    The count rate of neutrons we get from the largest nearby and complexly heterogeneous fusion reaction, the sun, is about 0.22 counts/sec on average as detected by instruments on the ISS ( http://www.hindawi.com/journals/aa/2012/379304/ ), or during a solar flare around 30-148 neutrons per meter^2 per second based on in atmosphere measurements. However, most of the neutrons made by the sun, more than 90% even, are produced due magnetic field accelerated ions interacting with coronal ions through knock-on or charge-exchange nuclear events ( http://www8.nationalacademies.org/SSBSurvey/DetailFileDisplay.aspx?id=732&parm_type=HDS ). Those are high energy neutrons, as that process does not make the thermal neutrons as detected here; but, we’ll count all neutrons to keep matters simple.

    So, if we use the results from the sun as a bench mark, the amount of neutrons per W reaching the ISS is 0.00112-0.00160 neutrons per Watt per second (given the ISS has 14% efficient solar panels that generate 84-120 kW of power). If we use this to extrapolate to the 1 Watt you used to calculate, you would expect 1 detectable neutron event per two hours or so. That is, of course, not considering the shielding the detectors were behind, nor that the proper calculation would have to use the watts reaching the detector from the reactor to compare against rather than the surface output of the reactor, as the inverse square law will scale both–unless you want to assume 1 W was reaching the bubble detector rather 1 W was generated in the reactor.

    This agrees pretty well with what was seen by MFMP when in the temperature range of 180-250 C, requiring the LENR reaction was making more neutrons than the ISS receives from the sun per Watt within that reaction range.

    Also, fusors take so much energy as they have to greatly heat up to accelerate deuterium ions, but suffer enormous conduction losses through the electrodes which saps that heat away from the deuterium gas. The losses are upwards of five orders of magnitude larger than what they can gain per collision, and is not a problem with fusion itself or the energy released by the fusion, but with the engineering of the method attempting to achieve the conditions that particular mechanism needs to initiate fusion. You unfortunately oversimplified the matter and seemed to forget the basic principle of how fusors work. Of course, the polywell fusor variant may actually be able to make net positive energy–we’ll have to see as that technology develops and tries to overcome the conduction issue. Moreover, fusors intentionally are designed to drive neutron production through clever engineering, particularly so they can be used in hybrid systems (driving fission reactors from with the neutrons), but still never remotely approach your calculations -per watt- by many orders of magnitude (at least by 6 and that is raw theoretical production and not useable/detectable production).

    Overall, the picture is way more complicated than your calculations (impossible ones at that, as most fusion energy is NOT released as neutrons) suggest, and at least when compared with the sun, the MFMP neutron results are pretty similar on a per watt basis. That can help us to determine what mechanisms could possibly be in play (7Li?) and allow further experiments to disprove or not those hypotheses.

    Finally, the rate of neutron production will depend directly on the percentage of reactions that are done by pathways that make neutrons and what share of the energy release those neutrons carry away, how quickly the neutron escapes (it has 14 minutes before it beta decays), avoidance of further reactions such as with 14N in the air or with any other element in the reactor fuel and reactor body, how well it gets through the lead and other shielding MFMP had up, and then of course having to deal with the inverse square law for the distance of the detector compared to the area of the detector and probability to interact with a supercritical fluid droplet. Fun stuff.