Seven Days of Hell for the E-Cat QuarkX (Hank Mills)

The following post has been submitted by Hank Mills

Andrea Rossi is about to initiate a seven day long test of the E-Cat Quark X, the allegedly most advanced version of his Energy Catalyzer technology. He has said that the purpose of the test is to demonstrate the performance, dependability, and safety of the QuarkX to a potential customer and partner. Three of the small reactors will be operated for a week — each producing one hundred total watts of power. With a claimed operating temperature on the outer surface of 1470 C, periods of self sustained operation for a half hour at a time or longer, and high COP even when external power is provided, the trio of nuclear reactors may yield a level of performance that dwarfs all other LENR technologies, including earlier versions of the E-Cat. Even the survival of the reactors for a week in such nightmarish conditions will be a significant accomplishment — the QuarkX will be hotter than hell! Furthermore, if the alleged direct production of electricity from the reactors are verified, the results may extend Leonardo Corporation’s lead over all competitors in the LENR (Cold Fusion) field.

From many of Andrea Rossi’s posts on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, a rough description of the QuarkX can be gathered. The technology is small and has been described both as cigarette sized to pencil sized. To withstand the ultra high temperatures involved that could severely damage other materials over time, custom alloys were produced for both the reactor shell and electrical resistors. Although not specified on the JONP, such an allow may also allow the device to withstand the corrosive properties of lithium vapor for an extended period of time. On at least one occasion, Tungsten was mentioned as being utilized. This means it is probably a component in the reactor shell and resistors.

A few bits of information about the performance characteristics of the E-Cat X are also known: the elevated operating temperature allows for higher COP when external power is provided, the unit can operate for periods of time in self sustain mode with no input power, the outer reactor shell can exceed the melting temperature of nickel because of “eddy currents” that are generated, and somehow electricity is being produced directly in addition to light and heat.  Moreover, Andrea Rossi has declared that the electricity is not produced via the conversion of heat, and that he thinks once the technology is further developed fifty percent of the output may be in the form of electricity.

Although there are apparent differences between the QuarkX and previous incarnations of the E-Cat, the same core technology is alleged to be utilized. The inner workings of this nuclear reactor are claimed to abide by his patent, “Fluid Heater.” When asked about the ingredients of the fuel mix, he claims they are the same — which would mean some ratio of nickel, lithium aluminum hydride, and elemental lithium all in the form of powder. Extremely high temperatures have already been produced with this fuel mixture by Andrea Rossi in previous tests, which led to “runaway” events that were sometimes witnessed by third parties. In one test, a reactor surged from a thousand degrees to two thousand degrees in Celsius in ten seconds, resulting in the steel of the reactor vaporizing and the ceramic melting. As one witness described, the ceramic flowed like hot wax. The technological improvements utilized in the E-Cat X seem to allow for higher performance but in a stable manner.

Evidence from Rossi’s own tests/demos and third party replications tend to strongly reveal that the Ni-LiAlH4-Li technology works — producing high temperatures, high COP, and periods of self sustained operation that can last from minutes to several hours. All of this seems to show a power density that can exceed 1000 watts per gram of fuel — a power density no other publicly disclosed LENR technology can match during non-destructive operation. But when it comes to the QuarkX specifically, we have zero evidence of Andrea Rossi’s claims. As of yet, no test data or reports have been shared, and there have been no public demonstrations. The week long test is also going to be completely private: no live feed, no live blogging, no pictures, and no report being released immediately afterwards.

When a report is eventually released — if the test parameters and protocols were rigorous — we may be provided with confirmation that the QuarkX is indeed the revolutionary technology Andrea Rossi has proclaimed it may represent. But until such documentation and hard data is provided, the week long test is largely meaningless to the LENR community. What we need is documented hard evidence we can share with the world that incontrovertibly shows to reasonable individuals — even honest skeptics — that the Ni-LiAlH4-Li formula produces copious quantities of anomalous heat. The report that might one day be published from this week long test could provide such evidence. But we shouldn’t wait for it to be published. Simply put, we’re on the verge of not needing reports from Andrea Rossi to confirm the awesome potential of the E-Cat technology.

The current delay of the ERV (Expert Responsible for Validation) report of the year long test of the one megawatt plant is an example of why we should not depend on Andrea Rossi or Industrial Heat (Cherokee) to provide the evidence we need to validate LENR. After a year of waiting, a lawsuit has halted the dissemination of information from that test. Now, all we have to look forward to is a potentially long, dragged out lawsuit that might go on for years if a settlement is not reached. When or if the ERV report will be published is unknown. We should learn from this and assume that the report from the upcoming week long test of the Quark may not be revealed soon, if ever. Due to the positive results of replicators such as Songsheng Jiang, A Parkhomov, N. Stepanov, and others, it seems like building working Rossi Effect reactors ourselves is very doable. With our own working reactors, we can design whatever tests we want, utilizing whatever measurement techniques we desire, and incorporating whatever forms of calorimetry (phase change, flow, induction, etc) we think are optimal.

The only obstacle we have now is figuring out the critical parameters that allow for a small minority of replication attempts to be successful. Me356, a replicator who frequently posts on the LENR Forum’s website, has shared many clues that could be useful. Some of them were very common sense, and others were already suggested by individuals such as Bob Greenyer of the Martin Fleischman Memorial Project. If these principles are utilized, I think the success rate could go up dramatically. Once a “guaranteed to work” formula is spread on the internet, hundreds or thousands of replications will be posted to YouTube in a short period of time. With so many people demonstrating repeated hour long periods of self sustain (glowing white hot reactors that should have dropped hundreds of degrees in seconds) there will be no denying the reality of Rossi Effect.

While replicators work towards figuring out how to duplicate the Rossi Effect consistently, a statement from Andrea Rossi that the seven day test was successful would be morale boosting. We can only hope that his customer and possible partner might be one of the big names that have been discussed on internet forums. Andrea Rossi has already stated that the customer that utilized the heat from the one megawatt plant for a manufacturing process had multiple manufacturing plants in Europe. After the test was complete, he stated that the customer had ordered three additional one megawatt plants. If the customer witnessing the test of the QuarkX is the same as the one who used the heat from the one megawatt plant, then they could have the resources to bring the QuarkX into mass production.

A mass production of the QuarkX utilizing modern technology, including robotics, would be of a massive benefit to the world. Just imagine billions of pencil sized reactors that could be utilized for any application that required heat or electricity. Every house could have a small window unit producing several kilowatts of power leading to the elimination of the grid; electric cars could use Quark’s instead of batteries for infinite range; space craft utilizing alternative propulsion technologies such as the EM Drive could explore the solar system without solar panels.

The coming months should be exciting. If we stay focused on replication of the Rossi Effect instead of the court battle between Industrial Heat and Leonardo Corporation, anything is possible.

  • Bob

    Miltary customer in 2013 :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/03/14/rossi-on-the-military-plant/
    .
    2011 – 10,000 home units ordered :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/09/rossi-10000-home-based-e-cats-have-been-ordered/
    .
    2011 – Military has ordered 12 more 1 mw plants :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/25/andrea-rossi-working-with-domenico-fioravanti-on-electrical-power-from-e-cat/
    .
    2016 – Another customer ordered 3 plants :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/14/rossi-1mw-plant-customer-bought-three-more-plants/
    .
    2015 – Well known companies as customers :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/10/25/well-known-companies-have-placed-orders-for-the-e-cat-qa-with-andrea-rossi/
    .
    2015 – 3 Billion dollars in pre-orders :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/09/17/e-cat-commercial-rollout-leonardo-in-europe-industrial-heat-in-the-usa/
    .
    2011 – First plant sold! Customer satisfied :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/10/28/e-day-thread-rossis-1-mw-e-cat-plant-tested-by-first-customer/
    .
    2011- Second and Third plants sold to different customer. Can now make 30 – 100 in the first year! :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/10/31/rossi-second-1-mw-e-cat-plant-sold-projects-exponential-growth-of-sales/
    .
    2014 – Yet another customer :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/07/01/more-on-the-1mw-plant-from-rossi/
    ..
    2012 : Another military customer and the 10KW eCat design has been finalized and is ready :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/02/25/rossi-siemens-ag-helping-with-leonardo-corp-with-efficient-electricity-generation/
    ..
    …I do not post the above to be sarcastic nor belligerent. So many posts on this site have been made with no more than base speculation. “Positive posts” can be made with almost no regard to actual factual basis and the “huzzahs” arise resoundly. If a perceived “negative post” is made, then the calls of “shill”, “Apco / IH Troll” and more are splashed about.
    .
    So therefore, I have made a post, using nothing but words from Rossi himself. The links are listed above.
    .
    As of May, 2016, no fewer than 20 1 mw plants have said to been sold! Pre-orders of $3,000,000,000 have said to been made. Well known companies are lined up to purchase. Existing customers are said to have been satisifed.
    .
    Designs finalized in 2012. Ready to build 30-100 plants in 2011.
    Seimens, National Instruments,Nasa, several different engineers and scientists working diligently. 50 employees in 2011.
    ..
    Now Seimens is gone, National Instruments is out of the picture. Not a single customer has come forth, evidently not too satisfied. 20 some plants “forgotten about”. $3 Billion in orders and not one customer willing to be public?
    .
    The above is not speculation. It is not my agenda. It is not Apco, IH or they mythical “PTB”. It is Rossi making claims and statements over the years.
    .
    Now we have the same story again. New model eCat, New secret customer, new secret test, all under NDA’s. A new statement that will be forgotten about as soon as the next customer and test comes along. Just 3 weeks ago, Rossi stated the 1 year test customer purchased 3 plants! What about this. Did he just drop them? 3 Billion in pre-orders are not worth following up on?
    For years we hear of “robotized factories” that where a “magnificanze”, yet this month Rossi is out shopping for a building?
    .
    What does history tell us of the most likely outcome of this new customer / test/ partner? What praises will be sung in August?
    What can I really put any hope on in this saga? 2011 I was extremely excited and positive. 2016 I am extremely weary and doubtful. The sentence that struck me most in Mr. Mills article above is :
    .
    “…example of why we should not depend on Andrea Rossi …”
    🙁

    • Steve Swatman

      Bob, you are absolutely correct in your examples, you have foiled the plot, shown the world your examples and made your case.

      Now if you just drop this post as a “copy past” on every lenr forum you can find, we will all understand how you feel.

      I for 1 am not moved, I am sure most if not all the positive thinkers and wishful hopefulls, will read your post and remember those Rossi posts and still wake up tomorrow hopefull, and wishing for the E-cat and Quark to be available soon.

      You know, because, why the hell not, I followed Fusion since I was a kid, the space race, moon and mars missions, computers, low fuel engines, electric vehicles, self driving vehicles, none of those things happened in only 5yrs, so I am not moved by your case, but thanks for the reminders.

      • Thomas Kaminski

        Steve,

        I remember the GE comic book explaining the benefits of nuclear power and the fact that it wold be “too cheap to meter”. Got that wrong!

        Rossi does make a lot of pronouncements, but over all if you follow his developments, there is progress. Also $10.5Million from IH (confirmed) is a strong indication of sales.

        • Steve Swatman

          Thomas I also remember Nuclear been extolled as the future, cheap, abundant energy, clean and accessible to the whole world, I was young then. Yes indeed, they got that wrong and our great grandchildren will still be paying the price long after lenr has a large market share.

          You might try reading my comment to Bob with a little hint of sarcasm in mind.

          The reminders he posted give the wishfull, the hopefull, the positive thinkers a reminder that Mr Rossi has been working very hard for what he believes in, that he has not given in, that he explores many avenues, that he keeps on trying to bring his invention to the world.

          The reminders from Bob, serve to enforce my wishfull hope, My positive outlook, my belief in Rossi, Lenr, the E-cat and now the Qx, as I said, I am not moved by Bobs negative post and thanks for the reminders.

        • Manuel Cruz

          Nuclear power is too cheap to meter AND makes countries nuclear potencies, which is one of the reasons we have spent decades dealing with home terrorism instead of full-front wars.

          Yet, even something too good to be true as nuclear power can become absolutely inefficient thanks to the magic of politics. Nuclear power inefficiency is artificial, created by excessive regulation and legal-uncertainty coming from socialist-leaning politicians. Also note that those “left-leaning” policies that demonize nuclear are dictated by the oligarchs of oil-producing countries, as their entire economy and personal fortune depends on people picking oil over nuclear.

          France has the cheapest electricity in the world. Germany, after shutting down their nuclear centrals, has become the most expensive one; and yet, they are going to raise electricity prices again, with no end in sight, because price parity is still a long way to be reached. It makes no surprise to anyone that has seen a graph of power density.

          Despite being practically free, the QuarkX can outcompete nuclear in price, because it obliterates not just the mining and production costs, but also the electricity transportation cost, which is actually pretty hefty.

    • Mark Underwood

      It’s like running a 10km race, but unknowingly thinking it will be over in 1km. Sprinting as you approach the 1km mark you then arrive at a sign saying 9km left. Excitement gives way to fatigue and disappointment, with a strong urge to stop. I can somewhat relate, in regards to another energy technology I’ve been looking forward to for over ten years. For myself, I have adjusted my pace for the long haul and am learning to enjoy the scenery.

      Thanks for the links. I’ve been following the Ecat saga for only about 2 years and I wasn’t aware it has such a rich history. For instance from your third link

      2011 – Military has ordered 12 more 1 mw plants :
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/25/andrea-rossi-working-with-domenico-fioravanti-on-electrical-power-from-e-cat/

      we see that even then Rossi was experimenting with a way to generate electricity from the Ecat, via some ‘liquid’. Here I thought it was new with the QuarkX.

      Edit June 9 2016: I thought that the liquid somehow served to produce electricity apart from normal the normal steam to electricity method. Upon reexamination, that is a huge leap of presumption ; my apologies.

    • sam

      Part of Rossi is a salesman.
      Now I am not calling salesman liars.
      They just stretch the truth sometimes.
      Maybe A.R should hire a real salesman.

    • Obvious

      Well, an interesting tidbit is the exclusion of the Italian military in the licence agreement with IH.

    • HS61AF91

      hey bobby, things change on the way to greatness, if you can’t stand the setbacks, just sit back and don’t worry so much.

  • Gorgo

    Are they being tested in Sweden or US?

  • There is a interesting write up in veterans today about cold fusion. If there is any basis to the article, then it’s highly unlikely humanity will benefit from this exciting technology. Another thought is this is a way for the oligarchs to maintain their control & power over the world. I hope someone else will weigh in & express their thoughts about the article.

    • SG

      As soon as the author stated this, he lost all credibility in my mind: “Keshe knows this stuff and it is the basis for his so-called ‘Magrav’ home reactor technology.”

      Also, note, this was an opinion piece, as per disclaimer at bottom of article:
      “The views expressed herein are the views of the author exclusively and not necessarily the views of VT, VT authors, affiliates, advertisers, sponsors, partners, technicians, or the Veterans Today Network and its assigns.”

      A total of zero objective evidence is provided in support of the author’s theory that LENR is dangerous. But, we knew this battle was coming, and it won’t be the last time we hear of it. First deny it even exists, then highlight the supposed dangers, then attempt to regulate it out of existence. *We as a community must not let this happen.*

      • It’s likely that this kind of fear-mongering will now spread quickly to the MSM so that cold fusion is introduced as a possible way to end the burning of fossil fuels, but simultaneously equated with nuclear fission in the ‘public mind’. The promise of ‘clean, green’ energy, linked firmly to danger. Companies such as APCO are very skilled at this type of manipulation. My only surprise is that Veterans Today has allowed itself to be used as a vehicle for this quasi-science hit piece.

        It’s only a small step from there to shifting the MSM meme to ‘calls’ for protection from the supposed danger, allowing pocketed politicians across the world to amend their country’s legislation to bring LENR into the ring fenced monopoly containing all things nuclear. The fact that this will happen worldwide, almost simultaneously (almost as if prepared long in advance) will escape notice by all but a few.

        Once the technology has been fully captured in this way, the ‘development’ period can be extended to any desired length of time, replication attempts from outside the monopoly can be quashed using State power, and the existing players can ‘go green’ at their own chosen speed.

        Naturally when the first CF retrofits finally begin to happen, the cost of converting the planet’s powergen industry to CF will be loaded directly onto the consumer in the form of a complete failure to pass on the ever increasing cost savings coming from the rolling program. The energy cartels’ profits will have been protected, costs of conversion will be covered, governments will still receive taxes skimmed from consumer bills, and everyone who matters will win. Not quite legislating CF out of existence, but the difference will be hard to discern from the ordinary consumer’s POV.

        IMO, only a CF free-for-all in the very near future (months, not years), following a full disclosure of functional reactor build instructions on the internet can now de-rail this process.

        • kdk

          Sign me up.

        • Roland

          You assume Swiss and Swedish interests are those of, say, OPEC, or Texas.

          It is the laggards dragging yesterdays baggage behind them that will lose the most, and have the most to lose, as they risk missing the tide that lifted all the other boats.

          • I assume that energy cartels are multinational and the interests of individual countries will be ignored. If all governments/dictatorships see CF as a disruptive threat, there won’t be any exceptions, any more than there are exceptions to State monopolies on nuclear fission.

          • Ciaranjay

            Is CF a disruptive threat? Absolutely.
            Will governments want to mitigate this? Absolutely.
            Heck, I do not want a massive stock market crash and pensions to become worthless. But at the same time we need this technology.
            But at the end of the day politics is “the art of the possible”.
            The EU cannot even manage its own local crises (Greek debt and Syrian refugee influx). If they could then there would not be the discontent amongst voters.
            Similarly if the US was nicely sown up then Trump would not be doing so well IMHO.
            It only takes one party to jump to CF and others to see the advantage. Whether that is Cuba, Sweden, China or whoever.

            The nearest I can think of is the “War on Drugs” where most countries toed the line dictated by the USA, but some did not, and now in the USA there is mounting pressure to legalise cannabis.

          • Manuel Cruz

            Politics is not the “art of the possible”. Politics is the art of making things inefficient, and priming the worse over the better. If the E-Cat technology is superior to the alternatives, you do not need politics to make people switch to it, they will do so willingly and naturally.
            Politics is only needed when either the resource is scarce and has to be rationed, when the natural choice has bad side effects, so you impose artificial costs to discourage its use; or when the thing you want to promote is actually worse than the alternatives, but you still want to push it for strategic reasons (national security, etc).

            One example were politics is needed is technology that has big initial costs, but in the long run turns out to be cheaper, so it makes sense to policy grants to incentivize its early adoption. A bad example are renewables, because once installed, these plants will stay ineffective their whole lifespan. The argument given in their favour is that natural resources are finite, which is true, but that also means that there is no need to push for them, as people would naturally switch to them once the price of the other options gets worse.

            Mmmhh.. maybe this explain why the regressive left politicians came up with the whole ‘climate change’ lie. If you want to build up a renewable bubble to scam people, you need to forge a future doom scenario that justifies pushing for that useless technology right now, instead of waiting for a few millenia until they become the rational choice.

        • SG

          Depressing post, but plausible. So, what can we do to ensure this never happens?

          • Pray that someone, somewhere publishes a set of engineering plans that enable any competent amateur to build a working CF reactor without leveling the immediate area or frying himself, I think – and soon. And then do anything and everything possible to propagate it across the www.

            If (as many of us sense I think) things begin to move more rapidly soon, it won’t be long before we see evidence that the fear scenario is in full swing.

          • cashmemorz

            The first wave of do-it-yourselfers will be in the thousands for a few years, with the occasional maverick who doesn’t follow instructions carefully getting hurt or does it to his first tryer friends. Then negative publicity to slow down even this meager wave of progress into the “wild”. Academics, politicians and bubble wrap philosophers will band together to get LENR back into the lab until its foolproof. It may be true that the tried and true methods of established science are the way to go with a paradigm changing technology. Sad but true. Slow and sure wins the game. Just ask the turtle or the hare.

        • HS61AF91

          a free-for-all or a mercenary army to protect the quark X factory!

    • LarryJ
    • kdk

      I think somebody emailed them a scare letter and they bought it, speculatively as revenge for covering the fact that WTC 1 and 2 were nuked. Of course you can do all sorts of nasty stuff with uranium, depleted or otherwise, and heavy elements. When was the last time we checked that our nuclear stockpile was all accounted for anyway?

      It’s much more difficult to create a massively dangerous runaway with cold fusion than with fission, it may even be impossible w/o using cold fusion to kick start a fission reaction.

    • Slad

      Is there a basis to any Veterans Today article?

      “The owner of VeteransToday openly admits that 40% of the website are fake stories or real stories with fake elements. ….. When questioned about fake articles, Senior Editor Gordon Duff has an outlandish excuse. He says he has to publish fake articles or the government would kill him for his real ones.”

  • lkelemen

    in one sentence a “no” word is missing. I can lend a few for future use:no no no no no. Or you use your own when proofreading

  • LarryJ

    I recall Rossi saying that he hoped his new factory would produce 500,000 units the first year it was in production. If they are 100W each then 10,000 units would be required for a single 1MW reactor. That means his first years production could be used to build 50 reactors. However, because the lifetime of the units is planned to be 1 year then the factory would have to spend its entire 2nd years production replacing the first years production. It’s not hard to see why the production will have to grow exponentially.

    • DrD

      I would imagine that the “exhausted units” would simply be refueled and re-sold. It’s unlikely it would take anything like as long as building new units and could be done by a seperate department, maybe even sub-contracted.
      He alo predicted rapid growth.

      • Omega Z

        Rossi indicated 500,000 units, but didn’t specify the unit(KW) output.
        On the otherhand, you don’t want to start to fast. Should major issues, arise, recalls can break you before you get started.

        I would assume given the size and temperatures the quarks will operate at, they will be recycled. Not refueled and reused.

        • DrD

          Recycled, Yes, that’s what I meant by refueled. I assume any part that needs replacing or reconditioning will also be renewed. I doubt they’re designed to be “trashed” with only the useful elements recovered. I could be wrong and hope we soon know.

    • Roland

      I suspect time will reveal that these units are multi Quark modules rather than individual Quarks and that the recyclable reactor elements are field replaceable while the modules themselves are engineered for long service life over many fuel cycles.

      The Quarks may also be the simplest system element. Judging from the vicissitudes experienced during the year long test the Quarks may also be the most reliable system element.

      Another interpretation is that a production facility based on heuristic robotics is inherently scalable based on a functioning beta version/testbed that builds out 50 megaW/yr of power devices.

      • clovis ray

        Yep, and the factorys will be Running in SSM

  • Gian Luca

    For the first time in human history, not only will we have at your hand infinite energy, but the energy itself will be delivered by the postman to your doorstep.

  • help_lenr

    I have to repeat my comment made in other thread. It is premature to deduce from success of electricity producing by ecatx technology that this electricity is usefull for most electric devices: if the current is alternately current of frequency 1 GigaHertz it might have only resticted number of applications (which is quite good, but less than exected by pre mature hopes).

    • DrD

      He said it is DC.
      Therefore it only needs a simple inverter.
      Solar PV already do this from a few kW upwards.
      Also, He said the electric output could be100% (not 50% as indicate above) but with some undefined loss in output (lower COP).
      I have to say I think he was talking “loosley” as he often does as I’m sure there will be atleast some heat being radiated.

  • help_lenr

    *typing error: exected=expected

    • f sedei

      Nag. N-A-G !

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Sadly, I do not expect much from this.

    Rossi will give us a ‘nugget’ regarding test performance, probably some slightly qualitative words with no real data behind them.

    The plans toward commercialization will commence accordingly, with “due persons” performing “due duties” in “due time”.

    I’ve been following this frickin saga for 5 years. 5 years!! For me, this seven-day test is the absolute final stop before I will seriously lose my faith in Rossi. I know that there is no middle ground – He is either a genius inventor or a genius fraudster. If nothing comes out of this test, I will still be interested to know what happens. But my interest will greatly wane from the current levels, because I will know to expect something anticlimactic, as is the case with Rossi more often than not.

    At least there’s the lawsuit as a kind of ‘deadline’ to end this madness. Though I suspect that, per the rule of anticlimactism, it will never go to court but be settled instead.

    • DrD

      I think we all share that frustration but I really do believe we’re on the verge of something revolutionary.
      Five years seems a long time but it’s not so long for such a revolutionary technolgy. I develop less revolutionary tech and still often look back and think how could it have taken so long to realease such a relatively simple product.
      It’s the unforeseable that often extends the critical path and in the case of LENR, politics gets in the way and in that I include the lawsuit/IP and the fossil fuel fraternity.

    • f sedei

      HEY! This has been fun. Admit it. And, you are addicted like the rest of us to the true to life mystery surrounding this magnificent discovery. What will we do when this extravaganza is concluded, and Rossi’s endeavors are finally proven legitimate? We may then look back with nostalgia while watching “Jaws”, TV reruns. Relax and enjoy your participation and (mostly) knowledgeable comments of the fellow contributors. Soon, a Quark window unit may be providing your home with an abundance of heat and electricity. Wishful thinking? We shall see. Enjoy!

    • Warthog

      “I’ve been following this frickin saga for 5 years. 5 years!! For me,
      this seven-day test is the absolute final stop before I will seriously
      lose my faith in Rossi.”

      I hate to tell you that you are living a fantasy. Five years is NOTHING in bringing almost any technology into a commercial reality. I have done far less controversial projects, and the average has been around seven years from concept to shipping out the door.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        We’re all living in a fantasy, alright.

        • Ged

          A final fantasy, if you will.

        • Warthog

          You aren’t required to be here, y’know.

          There are other efforts ongoing besides Rossi. If Rossi delivers, great. If he doesn’t, one or another of the competitive efforts will.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I’m sorry, but I think that all of those other efforts are kind of weak. Certainly nowhere near as compelling as what we have here. Rossi is where this all originated, the smoking gun. If he fails, the LENR field will be destroyed.

          • Warthog

            Not gonna happen. Too many competent researchers’ interest has been ignited to be snuffed out. LENR has already weathered the worst that the propagandists could do in the time between P&F and Rossi.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Sadly, I do not expect much from this.

    Rossi will give us a ‘nugget’ regarding test performance, probably some slightly qualitative words with no real data behind them.

    The plans toward commercialization will commence accordingly, with “due persons” performing “due duties” in “due time”.

    I’ve been following this frickin saga for 5 years. 5 years!! For me, this seven-day test is the absolute final stop before I will seriously lose my faith in Rossi. I know that there is no middle ground – He is either a genius inventor or a genius fraudster. If nothing comes out of this test, I will still be interested to know what happens. But my interest will greatly wane from the current levels, because I will know to expect something anticlimactic, as is the case with Rossi more often than not.

    At least, there’s the lawsuit as a kind of ‘deadline’ to end this madness. Though I suspect that, per the rule of anticlimactism, it will never go to court but be settled instead.

    • DrD

      I think we all share that frustration but I really do believe we’re on the verge of something revolutionary.
      Five years seems a long time but it’s not so long for such a revolutionary technolgy. I develop less revolutionary tech and still often look back and think how could it have taken so long to realease such a relatively simple product.
      It’s the unforeseable that often extends the critical path and in the case of LENR, politics gets in the way and in that I include the lawsuit/IP and the fossil fuel fraternity.
      EDIT: Oh, and not to forget all the certification, that worries me.

    • f sedei

      HEY! This has been fun. Admit it. And, you are addicted like the rest of us to the true to life mystery surrounding this magnificent discovery. What will we do when this extravaganza is concluded, and Rossi’s endeavors are finally proven legitimate? We may then look back with nostalgia while watching “Jaws”, TV reruns. Relax and enjoy your participation and (mostly) knowledgeable comments of the fellow contributors. Soon, a Quark window unit may be providing your home with an abundance of heat and electricity. Wishful thinking? We shall see. Enjoy!

    • you can check out any time you like…

      • Bob K

        “but you can never leave.” “Hotel California” the Eagles

        • thanks for getting all the young pups clued in. 😉

      • SG

        But you can never leave.

        • BTW, this isn’t the only waiting for godot technology I have been pining for. EEStor has also made me very well practiced in the specu-waiting arts. Going on 7 years now. I’m a certified pro by now.

          • psi2u2

            What is the latest? I gave up a few years ago. Is EEstor still going to pull it off?

          • Thanks for asking. Trying to keep it short here…. in a nutshell:

            EEStor Inc. located in Texas, is now majority owned by what was formerly known as Zenn Motor Corp and is now called EEStor Corp which is based in Toronto. Since 2014, everything has been controlled and run by Ian Clifford (founder of ZMC) who is working hard currently to raise funds so he can execute two big plans:

            1) Joint venture/licensing talks with various cap makers over EEStor’s low cost, “disruptive” (according the Dennis Zogbi) high voltage cap technology (not applicable to energy storage but a $2.8B market nonetheless) that was “proven” via Intertek 3rd party testing and….

            2) a “polymer program” in collaboration with the University of Akron polymer experts with the goal of enhancing the size of EEStor’s addressable market to other (low voltage) cap markets and/or energy storage. The polymer experts are quite positive they can help in this regard.

            Word is the final tranche of the current private placement is about to close and the drawn out EEStor saga can finally reach the end of the beginning!!!

            I can give anyone further updates if they want to join the cadre of EEStor fanboyz’ new clubhouse on Slack. Start by using this form https://eestor-slack.herokuapp.com/

          • Steve Savage

            I followed your blog and the EEStor saga for almost as long, gave up on it 2-3 years ago. There was just too much Drama and not enough evidence. However, you did a great job covering the story. I am certain that things will turn out better for Rossi than they did for EEStor.

          • Thanks for the compliment. While, I’ve had a role in helping the cadre out (especially lately) you actually have me confused with someone else – The eestorblogger. He retired from covering EEStor – found another, more urgent passion, but he still holds his shares and pops in for a brief chat every so often. I expect when the money raise is completed and/or EEStor makes news again (soonish), he’ll be drawn back in.

    • Warthog

      “I’ve been following this frickin saga for 5 years. 5 years!! For me,
      this seven-day test is the absolute final stop before I will seriously
      lose my faith in Rossi.”

      I hate to tell you that you are living a fantasy. Five years is NOTHING in bringing almost any technology into a commercial reality. I have done far less controversial projects, and the average has been around seven years from concept to shipping out the door.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        We’re all living in a fantasy, alright.

        • Ged

          A final fantasy, if you will.

        • Warthog

          You aren’t required to be here, y’know.

          There are other efforts ongoing besides Rossi. If Rossi delivers, great. If he doesn’t, one or another of the competitive efforts will.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            I’m sorry, but I think that all of those other efforts are kind of weak. Certainly nowhere near as compelling as what we have here. Rossi is where this all originated, the smoking gun. If he fails, the LENR field will be destroyed.

          • Warthog

            Not gonna happen. Too many competent researchers’ interest has been ignited to be snuffed out. LENR has already weathered the worst that the propagandists could do in the time between P&F and Rossi.

    • akupaku

      I have followed the Rossi saga for more than 5 years but I am not still convinced that he is a fraudster. If he still turns out to be fake then I have to take my hat off to him for pulling it off. If not a genius inventor he would still be a genius fraudster, lol.

      And I have followed on and off the progress of LENR and cold fusion since the announcement of Fleischmann and Pons. There is no doubt in my mind that LENR is real, whether it is useful as an energy source is maybe still in doubt but I think it looks very promising. And 5 or more years is completely normal in bringing a new invention to market. I agree that Rossi has been too optimistic in his announcements but that is a small sin that we all are guilty of.

      At least this has been great entertainment and I have learned a lot on the way. Beats watching TV or mindless sport events any day for me.

      “Great works are performed not by strength but by perseverance” (Samuel Johnson).

      Cheer up!

      • Carl Wilson

        Very close to my sentiments. Here are some comments on some of your points.
        “There is no doubt in my mind that LENR is real, whether it is useful as
        an energy source is maybe still in doubt but I think it looks very
        promising.”
        As to LENR being real there are so many examples of low level reactions that I agree. As to useful energy source, we also have repeated examples of runaway reactions. These show that the energy is there and at levels low enough to give promise for being controlled at small scales — as compared to the truly massive technology required by the well known hot forms.
        “If not a genius inventor he would still be a genius fraudster,”
        Or maybe both! I have the hypothesis of the Incomplete E-Cat which has enough workability to get serious people interested but has enough weaknesses the Rossi has been less than open about the true state of his project.

        • akupaku

          Very good point about Rossi maybe being both inventor and fraudster. Labeling him as one or the other is too black and white, he might well be in the grey zone in between. Actually I think there is much that points in that direction.

          • Warthog

            There “is” a middle ground. He legitimately has technology, but is using obfuscationary tactics to lead existing and likely competitors off in non-productive directions, while he forges on in perfecting the tech.

  • LookMoo

    Rossi must have backers.

    It is not possible for a single guy to run such a operation. We se how the basic eCat have developed 1000% in performance during less than a year. Normally requiring the combined efforts of several high-tech companies.

    All while Rossi claimed he spent 18 hours/day in a container.. simple not possible to do it alone or with a small team.

    What Rossi have done requires significant resources and combined support from several trusted partners (which IH is not)…

    • MLTC

      Yes, Kickstarter backers. ;P

    • Albert D. Kallal

      I agree there is a part of the puzzle we not seen. The design of the 1MW plant looked VERY VERY nice. There is clearly a group of people that Rossi works with.

      I mean, Rossi does not take out a hacksaw chop off a length of pipe to assemble an h-cat tube on his own.

      I suspect that these companies when they fabricate something for Rossi don’t realize or know they are building “parts” of a LENR device – and such compartmentalizing helps keep IP rights close to Rossi.

      Never the less, an astute observation on your part – Cleary Rossi has built up a network of fabricators etc. over time that he trusts and knows how to utilize.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Well, at least we can be sure that there is an audience. Been looking more closely in my logs and no doubt entities as DoS, DoD, Bechtel, Northrop Grumman and the Saudis are watching us … Strange really those people being that interested in conspiracy theories 🙂
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/why-are-dos-dod-world-bank-northrop-grumman-and-bechtel-keeping-a-close-eye-if-this-is-only-a-conspiracy/

    • Within 4 minutes DoD was reading my post refering from the above link here at ECW …

      • HS61AF91

        That’s my DoD, defending our right to have fun and hope. When the libertarians get hold of the executive, the study DoD does now will be put to good use. All is not negative with interested monitors.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      It would be interesting to see what the distribution of hits on your site was before the recent LENR “controversy” as compared to now. The organizations you site are huge and have many interested technologists. Only a tiny fraction of the organization might be interested in the results.

      Still….???

    • psi2u2

      Hahaha.

    • kdk

      I just learned recently that the Northrop Y-23 Black Widow had an on-board computer capable of matching supercomputers of the day… just some random info.

      • AdrianAshfield

        Bob,
        IH/Cherokee are not as spotless as you think. Look up the Meadow Lands reclamation project. Seems they have made several large reclamation schemes where all the money has been “used” but that failed for apparently valid reasons.

        Rossi was obviously talking about plans for a factory that never materialized.
        Often overlooked is that he owes us nothing. His objective is to reach the point of mass production and proving that the E-Cat works would simply spur the competition

    • Gerard McEk

      I am sure you are not the only site that is being closely watched with regards to LENR. The interesting thing is that you have the ability to see who they are (within certain limits). Maybe they are just checking on your site how thoroughly they have hidden their IT traces?

    • DrD

      Does any one have evidence of who’s hacking “rossilivecat”?
      We don’t need 10 guesses.
      It could be useful in the lawsuit, even without an identity.

    • Oaklandthinktank

      I ask nicely!

  • Well, at least we can be sure that there is an audience. Been looking more closely in my logs and no doubt entities as DoS, DoD, Bechtel, Northrop Grumman and the Saudis are watching us … Strange really those people being that interested in conspiracy theories 🙂
    http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/why-are-dos-dod-world-bank-northrop-grumman-and-bechtel-keeping-a-close-eye-if-this-is-only-a-conspiracy/

    • Within 4 minutes DoD was reading my post refering from the above link here at ECW …

      • HS61AF91

        That’s my DoD, defending our right to have fun and hope. When the libertarians get hold of the executive, the study DoD does now will be put to good use. All is not negative with interested monitors.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      It would be interesting to see what the distribution of hits on your site was before the recent LENR “controversy” as compared to now. The organizations you site are huge and have many interested technologists. Only a tiny fraction of the organization might be interested in the results.

      Still….???

    • Stefenski

      I wish Rossi would get a move on..
      I mean , this whole saga is slower than Kenneth Branagh’s version of Wallander. 😉

      • Fibber McGourlick

        I agree with you about Branagh’s Wallander. It’s painful to watch. I gave up on it after the first one. It’s method boredom.

      • roseland67

        But Henry V was pretty darn good,
        Hamlet? Slower than slow

    • psi2u2

      Hahaha.

    • kdk

      I just learned recently that the Northrop Y-23 Black Widow II had an on-board computer capable of matching supercomputers of the day for fly-by-wire… just some random info.

    • Bob

      A genuine question that I am truly interested in…
      How do you know the Saudis are watching? Do they have a “Saudi.com” URL or is the IP address you are seeing coming from an ISP in Saudi Arabia? Is it a Saudi government IP somehow listed or simply one originating in Saudi Arabia?
      .
      I often visit sites from my office during lunch hour, so a log would show my global IP address. Our company’s IP address is not public and not static, so it would simply resolve a number. You might search the city the IP address is from, but little else. Some IP’s are static and one can use the WHO IS search to find who leases the IP address. So if you searched for my signature IP, you might see the company I work for if it had a static IP, but I can guarantee that the company I work for has no interest nor any clue about LENR, Rossi or the eCat. My visiting a site at lunch at my office desk, thus using the company IP means nothing as related to my company, it’s involvement nor knowledge.
      A Bechtel engineer that is curious about LENR visiting from his office would show Bechtel as well, but not prove Bechtel Corp. involvement.
      .
      I doubt that DoD etc. uses publicly available addresses that people can “see” when they are spying on them. They are probably a little more sophisticated than that. So if they are “seen” or “revealed”, it would mean they do not care that someone knows it. There are many “web crawlers”, both private and government that crawl the web looking for certain words and phrases. These leave traces in the logs as well. Homeland Security would use them to sniff out terrorist activity for example. Other government departments use them for other data gathering purposes as well.
      .
      Interesting how the web works! It is not very private for sure! I was curious how you separate the curious engineer from the “board approved surveillance”?
      Thanks,

      • Steve Swatman

        Bob, If I can just say, “You must have really long lunch breaks, or lots of them, to produce so many long comments” all negative, accusatory and professionally manipulative,

        You seed doubt like a farmer sowing a crop (professionally and in large amounts)

        Your process of casting doubt and manipulating readers seems to come straight of the hand books of the “Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group” ““Human Science Operations Cell,” devoted to “online human intelligence” and “strategic influence and disruption”

        It may of course be simply that you feel the need to constantly bash Mr Rossi and Lener for some personal reason, that you are attempting to educate us poor, uneducated believers, who have fallen foul of a scam artist, or you may just like watching the game so you can tell the fans of the other team how stupid they are for supporting that team.

        I thank you for reminding me, multiple times, what to be aware of while I am perusing the internet world, how manipulative people with an agenda can be, and how much time manipulative people put into manipulating others for their own gain.

        Many thanks, and keep it, during those lunch breaks.

        • Warthog

          This is the typical SOP of the “stealth skeptopath”. I have dealt with many of this sort on this and other fora. There are others here.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Actually, I quite much agree with what Bob is stating in regards to page views origination from such organizations.

          The simple matter is hits from DoD does not mean that in some official capacity these organisations are watching this site. So in this light, what Bob states is perfectly logical and makes sense. You can’t conclude that these organizations are monitoring ECW in some official capacity based on such information.

          The idea that you want to turn a blind eye to clear logic and reason and ignore someone pointing out the weakness of the given conclusion is NOT a reason to say someone is negative. In fact this shows rather clear thought. And it also shows someone has some awareness as to how the internet works (again, are we to embrace ignorance is
          bliss?).

          However, it ALSO important to note and point out that this evidence does mean employes etc. are not keeping up on the ecat story within those organizations. And even MORE important is while such page views don’t mean official capacity, the REVERSE is also true! It could very well mean such acts ARE an official capacity.

          I would think the DoD uses proxies and thus their page views are obfuscated. However, DoE, or “most” government organizations would not use nor need some type of proxy to browse the web anonymously. (and since they are public funded, then this is MORE so – in fact I suspect they not allowed to do so!).

          Most important here is **if** readers were to walk away concluding that page views don’t mean anything would be a wrong conclusion.

          So it is VERY reasonable to accept that at higher levels of government they are VERY aware of the ecat. There is credible evince that higher levels of overnment are aware of this site and are following the LENR story. The geo-political ramifications of this technology are MASSIVE and anyone with a brain would conclude as a result the LENR story is an important one not to be ignored by any government (or industrial entity).

          So while defense and security page views likely are obfuscated, the rest would not be. (so unfair to lump all government into one basket – it simply not the case).

          And evidence exists that shows governments are taking note of LENR and even ECW.

          It was rather recent on ECW that a reader sent an inquiry to their government in the UK and they confirmed they are aware of Rossi.

          The other is the recent call by the US Secretary of Defense being directed to provide a briefing to the US House Armed Services committee on LENR. In fact I am willing to MUCH entertain that this announcement is likely VERY much the result of sites like ECW.

          People will cry out when LENR hits the market as to where the government was in all of this. Why public fund these institutions when they not doing their job? Huge egg will appear and MUCH finger pointing between and to these institutions will occur if LENR hits the market big time.

          So the PRIME motivation for the government to at least pay some lip service to LENR is very likely due to sites like ECW and the rising awareness of LENR.

          Clear evidence exists that such organizations are watching the LENR story. And again Bob pointing out that intelligence organizations would most certainly use a proxy to obfuscate their page views makes perfect sense, but does not invalidate the conclusion being made from such page views.

          So DoE, NASA or any major company has little reason to “hide” this fact and I much suspect they don’t use obfuscate their IP address – I suspect most government organizations are not even allowed to do so.

          Regards,
          Albert D. Kallal
          Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Gerard McEk

      I am sure you are not the only site that is being closely watched with regards to LENR. The interesting thing is that you have the ability to see who they are (within certain limits). Maybe they are just checking on your site how thoroughly they have hidden their IT traces?

    • DrD

      Does any one have evidence of who’s hacking “rossilivecat”?
      We don’t need 10 guesses.
      It could be useful in the lawsuit, even without an identity.

  • pg

    -6!

  • Tadej

    A week is like a sprint compared to a year long test, but this feels like a marathon.

  • roseland67

    It would be better if Mills wrote a post AFTER the Quark X demo that he attended.
    Sadly, specilation and assumptions will be all
    That we get out of the demo

    • …all that we get out of the demo immediately and directly.

      Eventually a public report of the test may surface.

      Indirectly this test is supposedly a decision gate before commencing mass production. We can infer much from what happens after the test. Silence means it didn’t go well. Optimism but another round of R&D means the test overall was a success but there are still some issues to resolve before moving full speed ahead. Optimism and open talk of commercialization, a new signed agreement/partner and — who knows — maybe the new partner issues a press release like IH did some time after they signed up means total success.

      I’m hoping for just the teeniest bit of information from or about the new partner. Something that can help corroborate whatever Rossi says after the test is over.

  • DrD

    He said it is DC.
    Therefore it only needs a simple inverter.
    Solar PV already do this from a few kW upwards.
    Also, He said the electric output could be100% (not 50% as indicate above) but with some undefined loss in output (lower COP).
    I have to say I think he was talking “loosley” as he often does as I’m sure there will be atleast some heat being radiated.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Thanks, that makes me feel all warm and tingly in the inside.

  • …all that we get out of the demo immediately and directly.

    Eventually a public report of the test may surface.

    Indirectly this test is supposedly a decision gate before commencing mass production. We can infer much from what happens after the test. Silence means it didn’t go well. Optimism but another round of R&D means the test overall was a success but there are still some issues to resolve before moving full speed ahead. Optimism and open talk of commercialization, a new signed agreement/partner and — who knows — maybe the new partner issues a press release like IH did some time after they signed up means total success.

    I’m hoping for just the teeniest bit of information from or about the new partner. Something that can help corroborate whatever Rossi says after the test is over.

  • SG

    But you can never leave.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    I agree there is a part of the puzzle we not seen. The design of the 1MW plant looked VERY VERY nice. There is clearly a group of people that Rossi works with.

    I mean, Rossi does not take out a hacksaw chop off a length of pipe to assemble an h-cat tube on his own.

    I suspect that these companies when they fabricate something for Rossi don’t realize or know they are building “parts” of a LENR device – and such compartmentalizing helps keep IP rights close to Rossi.

    Never the less, an astute observation on your part – Cleary Rossi has built up a network of fabricators etc. over time that he trusts and knows how to utilize.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Steve,

    I remember the GE comic book explaining the benefits of nuclear power and the fact that it wold be “too cheap to meter”. Got that wrong!

    Rossi does make a lot of pronouncements, but over all if you follow his developments, there is progress. Also $10.5Million from IH (confirmed) is a strong indication of sales.

    • Manuel Cruz

      Nuclear power is too cheap to meter AND makes countries nuclear potencies, which is one of the reasons we have spent decades dealing with home terrorism instead of full-front wars.

      Yet, even something too good to be true as nuclear power can become absolutely inefficient thanks to the magic of politics. Nuclear power inefficiency is artificial, created by excessive regulation and legal-uncertainty coming from socialist-leaning politicians. Also note that those “left-leaning” policies that demonize nuclear are dictated by the oligarchs of oil-producing countries, as their entire economy and personal fortune depends on people picking oil over nuclear.

      France has the cheapest electricity in the world. Germany, after shutting down their nuclear centrals, has become the most expensive one; and yet, they are going to raise electricity prices again, with no end in sight, because price parity is still a long way to be reached. It makes no surprise to anyone that has seen a graph of power density.

      Despite being practically free, the QuarkX can outcompete nuclear in price, because it obliterates not just the mining and production costs, but also the electricity transportation cost, which is actually pretty hefty.

  • AdrianAshfield

    If Rossi is a fraud he has fooled me. Not sure why but I feel more optimistic about the QuarkX test than I have for some time.
    Five years is nothing to bring a new technology to a commercial product, particularly if it is not understood how it works.

    I’m hoping that he has figured out how to operate at a higher temperature without it running away, that will give a higher COP and a more useful working temperature for commercial applications.

  • AdrianAshfield

    If Rossi is a fraud he has fooled me. Not sure why but I feel more optimistic about the QuarkX test than I have for some time.
    Five years is nothing to bring a new technology to a commercial product, particularly if it is not understood how it works.

    I’m hoping that he has figured out how to operate at a higher temperature without it running away, that will give a higher COP and a more useful working temperature for commercial applications.

    • Bob

      Mr. Ashfield,
      I agree that this saga is one of the most perplexing dramas I have ever encountered.
      Starting in 2011, I was extremely excited and hopeful. I saw nothing obvious that Rossi was anything other than he presented himself. While often, a very simple and vague statement of his would get hyped to an extreme level by posters, that was not really his fault. Although I was disappointed that he never quelled those high expectations..
      .
      Then as time went along, the most troubling aspect that I found was not what Rossi did, but what did not happen! He posted about various engineers “working diligently” and “teaching him much” over the years. But these people faded away and never spoke publicly.
      This was not in itself a deal breaker, but it was odd that NONE stayed the course with him nor publicly spoke out. (Other than Focardi)
      .
      Then came the corporations. National Instruments briefly announced they were in contact with Rossi. But this did not last and we heard no more. Rossi posted that Seimens was working with him, but this too faded into obscurity. NASA was interested. Depending on whether you believe Rothwell, they were thrown out! In any case, they appear to not be interested in Rossi any more. This added to the individuals above, started to paint a very dark picture. Not one of fraud necessarily, but one that something was not as good as seemed.
      .
      Then the customers… Rossi has reported that there have been at least 15 1mw plants sold and as high as 20, depending on various posts. There have been at least 5 customers since 2011. None have came forward. Some, who were said to have purchased plants in 2012 have never been heard from . Either mentioned by Rossi or others! This is a major oddity. Rossi has posted that he had $3 BILLION in pre-orders and from major corporations. Yet none revealed themselves. This is now becoming hard to accept.
      .
      Then the IH saga! I have done some research on IH. (Rather Darden / Cherokee since IH was formed specifically for the eCat project) They are not a Roger Green. (Not to disparage him) They are an established organization, with an established, positive history! They are not scammers, thieves nor stupid retards! They are professional and successful businessmen. Regardless of some of the unfounded and false innuendo that is posted about them (they were the “cat’s meow” only 8 months ago by those very same posters) they are extremely legitimate and to be reckoned with! They would have NO problems getting 89 million to pay. That theory is ridiculous. They are NOT stupid, that theory is likewise silly. Something MAJOR went wrong with either the test or the fact that Rossi did not transfer the IP. In any case, it is was the final straw.
      .
      When you take the entire 5 year history, it is not that it is the length of time, but is the overall events. No independent tests. The Lugano group did not come out and support Rossi or their own findings afterwards! Why, they must have a reason! Customers never come forward. Tests are substandard or it questions are found that need answered, no follow up is allowed!
      .
      No, it is not the five years. It is that Rossi himself stated he had “magnificent” factories ready to product 30-100 eCats per year in 2011. Where is the production? He always is hiding behind NDA’s to protect his IP! This happens in everyday business. It can be done without paranoia. Everyone he has worked with has left! Even Fuvulani (sp) has stated that he does not expect to work with IH or Rossi in the future! WHY?
      .
      Is Rossi a fraud? I do not know. Is he delusional? I do not know. Does he have a working eCat, that is controllable, dependable and safe? NO, I do not believe so! If he did, he would have customers that are public. Public customers would force the patent office to issue patents and this discussion would not be happening.
      .
      My opinion only, I have no proof either way. I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

      • AdrianAshfield

        Bob,
        IH/Cherokee are not as spotless as you think. Look up the Meadow Lands reclamation project. Seems they have made several large reclamation schemes where all the money has been “used” but that failed for apparently valid reasons.

        Rossi was obviously talking about plans for a factory that never materialized.
        Often overlooked is that he owes us nothing. His objective is to reach the point of mass production and proving that the E-Cat works would simply spur the competition.
        I’m surprised he has told us as much as he has. A large corporation would not have breathed single word.

        • Bob

          Rossi was not talking about a vision of the factories. He stated many times that the factory WAS wonderful and they were READY to produce 30-100 units per year.
          .
          Why has ALL the relations he has had ended badly or in controversy? How can you explain that National Instruments and Seimens would walk away from the biggest invention of the century? Why has the Lugano group remained absolutely silent? Why has Rossi refused validation from Ed Storms and MFMP, non-competitors?
          .
          Do not get me wrong. None of this is absolute proof of anything other than really strange relations. Yet on the other hand, there is even LESS proof that he has a controllable, heat producing, light producing, electrical producing and direct thrust producing marvel the size of a pencil!
          There has not been one single test that has given ANY solid proof. Certainly not Lugano, who even MFMP has stated that it was inaccurate.
          .
          I will do further research on Meadow Lands. My first review of it was that yes, investments were made and money was lost. It does happen. Telsa motors has lost hundreds of millions of dollars and not made one penny profit so far. SpaceX has not broke even yet. Are they scammers and evil? I am not claiming that the Cherokee board or Darden are Boy Scouts. They are business men and they take chances. Often with investor’s money, that is what ALL venture firms do! That does not make them Bernie Madoff. However, I will look further into the event. Again, the first review showed a failed venture, but no charges were ever brought up against them and I have not heard calls for their hanging by investors. Woodford, another respected entity feels comfortable with them. But then some now state the Woodford is evil as well, just by association!.
          .
          You are right that Rossi owes us nothing. He would be better off NOT posting daily. It seems to fill some need of his. Remember he, censors his JONP very heavily. Ask him about some of the past customers and see if it makes the board. Again, it was his posts not ours..
          .
          I truly hope Rossi has everything he says he has. However, it is getting to the point that if something is not delivered, he will be doing more harm to LENR research than good. Let’s face it, we do not have ANYTHING other than “Rossi says” at this time. Nothing. After 5 years, that is not good. It is no different that Randal Mills at BLP. Always getting money, production in 6 months, but it never happens. He has been doing it for over 15 years! What is the difference? 🙁

          • Albert D. Kallal

            He
            stated many times that the factory WAS wonderful and they were READY to produce 30-100 units per year.

            Really, I don’t recall ever reading that in the past 5 years. Do you have a link or quote to this effect? Every context of manufacturing was in the context of the future tense.

            How
            can you explain that National Instruments and Seimens would walk away from the
            biggest invention of the century?

            Rossi never gave them a deal. And I don’t believe that Rossi ever stated anything other than he was talking to National Instruments and “suggesting” some kind of partership. I believe test and instrument equipment was being purchased from NI, and Rossi also tossed in the idea that some kind of partnership might be mutually beneficial.

            Suppliers are offered these types of ideas all the time. I need some piping from you, and if you partner with me and supply me with pipe, then it is some kind of mutual benefit. Business get these types of offers every day. Even in software
            development I often get these types of offers. The business will say build me
            the software we need and THEN we can sell that software together. However, if
            that worked, then no business would ever have to pay for in-house software development, would they?

            Same goes for Siemens. And from what I recall, Rossi was talking to Siemens about their lower temp turbines. And again likely Rossi may have suggested some type of partnership if Siemens was going to supply some test units – but again, this occurs often in business and most manufactures walk away from such deals.

            Hey, I need a new furnace, so let me become a dealer for you, and you supply me with a free furnace in the meantime.

            To be fair, Rossi certainly has dropped those names in attempts to gain credibility – and this is a HUGE warning flag.

            As for BLP? Their issue is they changed their theory, changed their story, and changed their ideas, and changed even what they plan to build many times. Some of the things they cooked up are stupid – I see them as a firm
            simply milking money out of investors.

            Rossi is different than BLP in that he been quite consistent in what he has, what he wants to do, and has doggelity pursued his technology. And Rossi built several plants. The early 1MW plant was crude, but the yearlong test unit was REALLY nice in terms of design and engineering.
            And Rossi has allowed tests of his units. (some may question the testing, but Rossi has allowed such testing).

            As for Lugano testers coming forward? They likely don’t feel the need to, or even are aware that they need to. You think they’re going to come here and start blogging and auguring with some kid typing away in their basement? Their time is valuable. The testing was ALREADY done, so what exactly are they going to say to objections? I mean, what possible statement would one expect from them other then what they included in the report? I mean, anyone disagreeing wants the test re-done. I see little reason for these testers to come and have mud slung at them on the internet.

            So the Lugano testers likely don’t feel the need to do anything, or they not interesting in fighting on the internet with some basement blogger. And unless someone going to pay them, I highly doubt they want to spend days simply re-iterating what they already done. And this would certainly be the case unless funds are available to pay these people for their time.

            At the end of the day, you do have some valid points, and the most significant is lack of quality verifications of the ecat. This remains an issue. While much circumstantial evidence exists to support Rossi case, there are many red flags and issues that hurts Rossi.

            Given the current situation, then we simply have to wait for higher quality information on Rossi technology to surface, and until such time this occurs, then one has to temper what Rossi claims with caution.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob

            Mr. Kallal,
            .
            Your points are well taken. This is part of the crux of the matter. We have really nothing to go on. Your explanations for Seimens etc. are as valid as my questions about them walking away are. Quite true. However, your explanations, the same as my view, are simply theory. My point was is that when you add up ALL the points… the customers, where are the “sold” plants, lack of good testing, corporations no longer involved, etc. I think one has to start painting a more complete picture and that picture is not looking very good at the moment in my opinion.
            .
            I try to stay away from using posts of observers as “fact” and I do not believe you do either. However, when Rossi himself makes a post, I have no choice but to look at it as 1)he is telling the truth 2)he is telling a lie 3)that his second language is not conveying what he means.
            .
            But I believe it 100% clear that he has posted very clearly that there have been a minimum of 15 1mw plants sold and possibly as high as 20, depending on how you take his posts. He has talked about factories since 2011 and now he posts that he is looking a building!
            .
            I try not to paint pictures by what I want to be true. I also try not to paint a picture by using a single or very small sample of data. I try to look at the overall, long term history and total data pool. What does that indicate?
            .
            The Lugano testers were requested from some sincere and valid people, such as Mats Lewan and others. I do not understand their complete silence.
            .
            As for the factories? One can look at :

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/10/31/rossi-second-1-mw-e-cat-plant-sold-projects-exponential-growth-of-sales/

            (ready to make 30 -100 plants per year. a new second customer customer, tested by Domenico Fioravanti!
            “Rossi mentioned again that the industrial strength plants are ready for manufacturing”)

            .
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/20/rossi-exponential-progress-at-leonardo-factory-in-florida/
            .
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/11/rossi-leonardo-corp-has-new-factory-dedicated-to-e-cat-x-production/
            .
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/02/02/rossi-says-robotized-factory-becoming-a-reality-making-new-inventions-by-the-day/
            .
            http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/03/21/rossi-e-cat-factory-under-another-name-for-security-reasons/

            .

            And I believe there are more..

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Your explanations for
            Seimens etc. are as valid as my questions about them walking away are

            What is valid or the problem here? You saying that telling everyone here is the sky is blue is a valid point? As I stated this is common in business. What is WRONG is an attempt to point out this is some warning flag or big deal – it is not and amounts to NO MORE than telling everyone the sky is blue. The Wright Brothers also had a hard time making deals with perspective companies also.

            Rossi also walked away from Musk (brother of Tesla motors) – Rossi stated the offers and terms of what he had to give up were not to his liking.

            However, what is more significantly here is Rossi dropping big industrial names in an attempt to gain credibility – this is a warning flag and a common ploy by people attempting to gain credibility when they have little. So in past business dealings, those dropping “names” to achieve credibility also tend to be the kind of people you don’t want to do business with.

            In fact Rossi did sign and make a deal with IH – so you can’t make the point Rossi never signs a deal. The fact that the IH deal gone sideways is a different pattern and issue. However, is this lack of deals a warning flag? Sure, absolutely!

            As for the factories? One can look at :

            Where does the above first link suggest, hint or state or imply that some factory exists? After all, if you going to up-hold everyone else to your high standards, then should not such up-holding apply to you?

            Nowhere in above is some kind of automated production factory mentioned. A capacity of 30 to 100 plants is not ANY kind of automated factory, but is clearly a piece meal assembly operation in a warehouse. After all, who built the existing plants we know about? The early model was VERY crude, but the 1MW plant from the yearlong test looks VERY nice. So someone had to build this plant and thus LOGICALLY Rossi has the ability to produce such plants. I would not call this a “factory”, but I suppose one could. The irony here is since you assume that 30 units a year is some factory, then it is VERY reasonable that Rossi can deliver that many units per year – after all who build the existing plant for Rossi? Why not
            use the same people – I sure they can ramp up to 30 units with ease.

            And as for a sale, sure – just after that 2011 demo Rossi stated another party showed interest and offered to purchase an ecat. So he sold a unit.

            However, a sale does not mean a delivery or that requirements of that signed deal ever occurs. Surely you purchased things that require a contract in life, right? I hope you purchasing things beyond a bottle of pop.

            I mean, in real estate we see this all the time. An offer is made, and accepted. (a sale). However in the meantime, either financing fails, the inspection from the bank (who making the loan) fails, or a zillion things can occur. Don’t know of any kind of business deal that does not have some kind of “subject to”.

            For example, you are at the car dealer. And the sales guy offers you a great deal on a car. You can sign, but what happens when you go home and your hot super model girlfriend does not like the car and threatens to leave you? Or what happens if on the way home you see the same
            car for half the price?

            So while many people sign such deals, you simply scribble on the side “subject to” financing, or in this case subject to my hot super model (or the nagging wife) not liking the car. Now you have an easy way out and you don’t have to accept the deal.

            That way I not stuck. But a sale was made, they rang the “gong” bell at the car dealer! However that “sale” has many conditions and subject to. So anytime I buy a car, I write down several subject to’s that allow me to back out of that deal or “sale”.

            So saying one sold a unit is spectacular different then saying one delivered to a customer – a grand canyon of difference. Given after that 2011 demo Rossi found IH as a partner and designed and built a new plant, it made little sense to spend time building and selling that older crude 1MW plant demoed in 2011 that resulted in that sale.

            So in the above, was a sale made? Most likely, but Rossi then moved to the USA and a sale of a car or anything without the terms being met (such as something as simple as delivery!), then that sale and deal not going to occur, is it?

            And Rossi stated that the deal with IH and the yearlong test is what changed his focus from production to that of testing. (and 89 million does change most people’s minds quite fast).

            So the above first link says nothing about a factory, and yet you providing a link a proof of some factory. And the fact that several plats have been built, then clearly some kind of production ability MUST exist to have built the existing plants.

            I don’t see why such VERY LOW delivery rates could not be achieved by Rossi using the SAME people who built the existing 1MW plant he has. So based on your definition of a factory productions say 30 units a year, that’s perfectly reasonable.

            However NEVER at any point did I assume or think or accept that production possibilities of 30 units is a factory by any stretch of my imagination.

            However, do we “mostly” have conjecture on Rossi claims? Absolutely! I never thought otherwise. We don’t have solid validations of his technology and how well it performs.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Bob

            Your analogy about buying a car is not unreasonable. However, Rossi has posted that he has sold to at least 5 customers!.
            If he could not “finalize” the deal with 5 customers to paraphrase your scenario, it does raise a flag. Especially when these customers seem to never be heard from again. I can seem them waiting for the new and improved model, but to give up totally. This does seem odd.
            .
            For example, he has stated that the 1 year test customer has purchased 3 more plants! Lets see if we every hear any more about that! It will be a very good example.
            .
            As far as the factories? I never said anything about them having to be robotized. Rossi has described them as such. I would be happy to see any factory, robotized or not!
            .
            You stated that my link did not mention anything about factories and that I need to hold up my high expectations of accuracy.
            This is directly from that link :
            .
            “Rossi mentioned again that the industrial strength plants are ready for manufacturing, ”
            .
            Yes, the word factory is not in the sentence, but really? “Industrial strength plants” would certainly be a factory, not a simple prototype line and they are not “planned or proposed or under construction”. They are “ready for manufacturing” That means they exist and are ready to build eCats! However, these but have been abandoned?

          • AdrianAshfield

            Kalial, Thanks for saving me the trouble of answering 😉
            Many credible scientists have seen the E-Cat and have been persuaded that it works.
            It is NOT in Rossi’s interest to provide absolute proof that it works until he is ready for production.
            I think he talks about it because he wants to share the excitement that he feels.

          • bachcole

            I agree 101%. People keep expecting proof here. NO. What we get here is an opportunity to share in the excitement. In ages past, before the Internet, Orville and Wilbur changed the world and NO ONE knew anything about it. Heck, even years later distinguished people and publications said it was a hoax.

          • Bob

            Albert,
            Your response was logical and very valid. I posted a reply earlier addressing some of your questions, but is seems to have gone into cyber space. I will wait a little longer to see if it appears.
            Thank you again. I appreciate a good discussion when it is open for ideas and does not become personal.

        • Bob

          I took some more time researching the Meadowlands deal. A synopsis of the entire deal can be found at :
          .
          http://www.northjersey.com/news/encap-properties-sold-for-42-5m-1.1362661?page=all
          .
          This article is up to date as it was written in 2015, well over 6 years since Cherokee Investments were involved. It is from a party not related in anyway to LENR / Rossi or the current situation. It should be unbiased.
          .
          To recap, EnCap was a company formed by William Gauger. He obtained the project of the Meadowlands in 1999. He obtained financial backing from Cherokee Funds,( who was NOT directly active in running the reclamation project) in 2004. The project failed, apparently due to several reasons, one being bad management by EnCap. Donald Trump was even involved for a while. (Not that it makes much difference)
          .
          There was 11 criminal charges brought against William Gauger specifically, while NONE where filed against Cherokee. Interestingly, Gauger had all charges dropped against him except for 1 – “Defrauding Cherokee”.
          .
          So to recap my opinion based upon published facts is that:
          1)William Gauger started a company EnCap and received financial backing from Cherokee Investment Partners.
          2)William Gauger did not do a good job managing the project and it went belly up.
          3) Some criminal charges were brought against Gaugner, but none against Cherokee.
          4)All charges were dropped except one, for defrauding Cherokee.
          5)The project continued to be a mess and failure long after Encap was out of the picture.
          .
          So yes, the project was a failure.
          Was Cherokee responsible? Not directly anyway.
          Was there criminal activity? Yes, but not from Cherokee. No charges or implications were ever accused from them. Only towards William Gaugner.
          It does take some research to get to the bottom of some stories. Often “posts from avatars” with nothing to hold them accountable can state anything. The above information has a link to supply one source.
          .
          Does this tarnish Cherokees reputation? Yes to some degree! It shows they invested in a person who was unable to successfully complete a major project. Will their reputation be tarnished again by investing in Rossi? Time will tell.

      • sam

        If we gain nothing else from following A.R we get free
        lessons in patience.

        • bachcole

          For me, LENR in general and A.R. specifically have given me a real and very valuable lesson in practical epistemology: How is it that we know anything. In the age of TMI, this becomes a practical problem for almost everyone.

      • Gerald

        In the case of Siemens just look at the company’s actions last 4 years. Divisions they sold, companies they were interested in. Of course this just can be biznis as usual, but it fits Rossi’s case also. They are focusing/preparing for the next step in energy. We’ll see what the source wil be, probably more then one.

      • Omega Z

        Cherokee “Manages” $2 Billion in Investors assets distributed throughout multiple LLC’s. This is not the same as Tom Darden or Cherokee having $2 billion to do with as they please.

        I doubt Darden had the means to come up with $89M. I also don’t think it mattered as it was not his intent to pay. It’s possible they thought they could roll an old man out of the way. He’s old. A few million should make him happy having more then enough to live out the few years he has left. If it weren’t Darden, it would be someone else doing this. It’s a common practice among VC’s.

        When working for the Government, Universities and Corporate R&D, they also snag all the IP. Even a Factory worker who comes up with an Idea they’ll lay claim to it.

        Keep in mind. SOciety rewards those who steel and lay claim to others ideas. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, etc, etc, etc…

        I do give Steve Jobs props. He at least admitted it.

  • Mark Underwood

    It’s like running a 10km race, but unknowingly thinking it will be over in 1km. Sprinting as you approach the 1km mark you then arrive at a sign saying 9km left. Excitement gives way to fatigue and disappointment, with a strong urge to stop. I can somewhat relate, in regards to another energy technology I’ve been looking forward to for over ten years. For myself, I have adjusted my pace for the long haul and am learning to enjoy the scenery.

    Thanks for the links. I’ve been following the Ecat saga for only about 2 years and I wasn’t aware it has such a rich history. For instance from your third link

    2011 – Military has ordered 12 more 1 mw plants :
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/25/andrea-rossi-working-with-domenico-fioravanti-on-electrical-power-from-e-cat/

    we see that even then Rossi was experimenting with a way to generate electricity from the Ecat, via some ‘liquid’. Here I thought it was new with the QuarkX.

  • psi2u2

    What is the latest? I gave up a few years ago. Is EEstor still going to pull it off?

  • bachcole

    My certainty meter cannot move so much as a point one way or the other based upon this announcement, the Fabiano report notwithstanding. I hope that this announcement is true, and I will dance for joy if it is true.

    Understand, oh ye fellow E-Cat followers, that there really are people who will put up money based upon this sort of unsubstantiated report. They are called gamblers and investors, and they allow their hope and enthusiasm to influence their judgement. “Mr. Bachcole gives me a 50-50 chance to earn at a rate of 1000 to 1, perhaps at a rate of 100,000 to 1, so why not?” Since I am not a gambler nor an financial investor but am merely an honest observer, I am stuck at 50%.

    If this is all true, it sounds to me as though Rossi has mastered the art of the E-Cat and has made significant leaps in his understanding of LENR.

    • HS61AF91

      go get your feathers, it’s almost Pow Wow time.

      • bachcole

        eh?

        • HS61AF91

          encouragement for ‘I will dance for joy if it is true’ and I share your sentiment. As native Americans get together, don their feathered attire, and enjoy the dance, I was alluding to the happy ending of ‘Seven Days of Hell for the E-Cat QuarkX’

  • f sedei

    Nag. N-A-G !

  • sam

    Part of Rossi is a salesman.
    Now I am not calling salesman liars.
    They just stretch the truth sometimes.
    Maybe A.R should hire a real salesman.

  • sam

    Hank
    Thanks for your article.
    Personally I will take A.R word
    about the test.
    Sam

  • sam

    Hank
    Thanks for your article.
    Personally I will take A.R word
    about the test.
    Sam

  • Michael W Wolf

    As this Saga continues, I have been thinking about the term, “too good to be true”. If Rossi was a fraud claiming 6 COP, that is in the realm of too good to be true, and a lot easier to convince willing people. But 50 COP, electrical generation, and pencil sized? I would consider it too good NOT to be true.

    • Steve H

      This reminds me of a book I read on potential Black Project technologies.
      The best secrets are hidden by allowing them to be discussed openly. They are protected by their incredulity.

      • Um… Clean Planet just filed (EDIT: correction, filed in July 2014, now public) a patent for a reactor with COP 33. They claim neutron emissions and detection and put forth a theory about heavy electrons causing higher fusion rates via tunneling.

        https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3306-Mizuno-USPTO-Patent-Application-June-2-2016/

        Those Japanese pranksters! /s

        • Ged

          Fascinating! Thank you for the share.

          So much going on in the field now. We public are almost always years behind the true cutting edge. I do like the precision of some of the details in this application, like nano particle sizes among others. Could be interesting to try to replicate.

          Some of the language is quite curious too. Using a deuterium atmosphere to occlude the hydrogen (not deuterium?) pre-bound (stored) in the particle surface to enhance the reaction?

      • Mark Underwood

        “Only puny secrets need protection. Big secrets are protected by public incredulity. You can actually dissipate a situation by giving it maximal coverage.”
        Marshall McLuhan

        • Steve H

          Thanks Mark.
          That sounds like the phrase.
          Can’t remember the title of the book, but it was an illuminating read.

  • Michael W Wolf

    As this Saga continues, I have been thinking about the term, “too good to be true”. If Rossi was a fraud claiming 6 COP, that is in the realm of too good to be true, and a lot easier to convince willing people. But 50 COP, electrical generation, and pencil sized? I would consider it too good NOT to be true.

    • Steve H

      This reminds me of a book I read on potential Black Project technologies.
      The best secrets are hidden by allowing them to be discussed openly. They are protected by their incredulity.

      • Mark Underwood

        “Only puny secrets need protection. Big secrets are protected by public incredulity. You can actually dissipate a situation by giving it maximal coverage.”
        Marshall McLuhan

        • Steve H

          Thanks Mark.
          That sounds like the phrase.
          Can’t remember the title of the book, but it was an illuminating read.

  • Axil Axil

    Lugano taught Rossi something very important. For one thing, Rossi changed the shape of the Quark reactor from a wafer format to a cylinder just like the Lugano reactor. The Quark is a pencil in shape as described as follows:

    “a rough description of the QuarkX can be gathered. The technology is small and has been described both as cigarette sized to pencil sized.”

    The patent provides a clue to what is behind this change. The patent calls for a high voltage 100KV electrode at both ends of the cylinder. Most opinion on these electrodes assumes that that electrostatic potential is a plus and negative match,

    But those electrodes could be both positive. In this case, these electrodes could serve as the end caps on a magnetic bottle where the coils the wind around the cylinder produces axial magnetic field lines the ions orbit. The positive end caps would keep the ions inside the bottle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_mirror

    http://www.sr.bham.ac.uk/xmm/images/fmc/pinch_14k_350_262.jpg

    I have generally addressed this issue before as follows:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/04/magnetic-confinement-in-lenr-axil-axil/

    With the emergence of the Quark, it looks like there is a high probability that Rossi has moved from a passive Exotic Neutral Particles (ENP) confinement system using steel to an active system using EMF containment. Steel wafer containment stops working at the temperatures that the Quark runs at so and externally placed active system is what now works.

    I believe the 100KV end cap mod to the Rossi patent was inspired by the Quark reactor R&D as a design upgrade from the Lugano design.

    It has interested me as to what kind of confinement that Rossi is doing. His EMF confinement setup is non standard.

    This is to be expected in that the item that Rossi wishes confined is a neutral particle. But that particle has a unique EMF identity and behavior unlike an ion.

    I consider the ENP to be a Rydberg superatom. It is a superconductor and a dipole. In a magnetic field, the ENP will be diamagnetic. The ENP will be repelled by the magnetic field lines. If the magnetic field oscillates fast enough, the ENPs could be caught in a tight confinement movement. The Anode/Cathode electric field will align the dipole along the electric field lines. This introduces the instantiation of the Stark effect which might also involve the imposition of forbidden transitions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_effect

    This might cause the Rydberg atoms to be maintained in a metastable state for a longer period of equilibrium. Any ideas on this confinement method are welcome but clearly something we don’t see everyday is going on.

    • oaklandthinktank

      … could you get the Rydberg superatoms to twirl and precess, perhaps?

      • Axil Axil

        Perhaps but to what effect. Because a global bose condinsate of coherent Rydberg superatoms is insensitive to position in space, How entanglement is maintained in the condinsate is important not where the items in the condinsate are.

        • oaklandthinktank

          ah, my conception of the rydberg state is poetical at best – my apologies for vague and inaccurate musings. the picture playing in my mind’s eye: a sort of “spirograph” surface of spin-axes, like schauberger’s horn… if your mirror is imperfect, with cone on one end, rydberg might bounce out the sharpened side, similar to laser confinement.

          It seems that a condensate with angular momentum may have a different reaction to eddy-esque pulses… and, wobbling the confinement orientation would artificially ‘precess’ the axis, in relation to the material rod. My vague spirographic sense, as if seeing layers of gridded transpanecies in motion, says that there is a moire generated by the ratio between surface radius and speed of spiral along length… if the radius narrows, moire magnifies and overlaps. By passing from one frequency to another, you may induce a directional squeeze on lattice – as if all your “discrete breathers” sighed in a wave, facing in a spiral pointed toward one side….

          i suppose i’d need to do a lot of work, testing that, instead of just musing… I’ll hush 🙂

          • Axil Axil

            At the place where we are now in our discussion, to where the LENR reaction produces strange matter as per Holmlid’s experiment is a very long one that the imagination can not comprehend.

            This is a problem where we must move to its middle from both ends. Think about how Rydberg matter can produce strange quarks and mesons.

            Here is a discussion with Holmlid’s partner on their experiment and the theory they think is behind it.

            https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1853-Ask-questions-to-Dr-Sveinn-%C3%93lafsson-Science-Institute-University-of-Iceland/?pageNo=1

          • Steve H

            I postulated something similar a while back. That the 3 phase power that Rossi uses would create a gyrating and tortuous EM field from the heater coils. Nickel is magneto-strictive and it’s lattice will expand and contract as a function of this EM field.
            Each phase has an amplitude which is 120 degrees offset from the previous one in constant rotation. This would be ideal for stirring and cooling the nickel compound, as the hot-spots are kept moving around.

            The confinement that Axil mentions sound similar to the hot fusion Tokomak reactor. Although they use magnetic repulsion to confine the super-hot plasma in the centre of a toroidal chamber to prevent it melting the walls.

            I concur with your comment that these are just my musings and mean nothing in reality. I simply mention them for others to comment upon, while we wait for some real data.

          • oaklandthinktank

            hehehe – i’ll keep chewing on my foot, and perhaps posterity may find my mistakes amusing 🙂

            @stephenheale:disqus : Yes, moving those hot spots is key… my take is a bit nuanced (or nuisanced?) You can “smear the heat around” with an oscillating confinement, as we both assume Rossi does, but I would rather make the rydberg snowflake eject periodically from one tip of the device – a beam, not a hot filament. Swirling confinement up, along the rod, may do this best if it tapers – because rydberg’s moire of interference with lattice’s ‘pixel size’ (the regularity of substrate induces moire upon waveform) and spins ribbons of pressure toward the sharpened tip.

            I would rather produce a rydberg beam, and fuse/fizz a target material, rather than melting my maser to boil coffee. Different objectives, different design constraints. 🙂

            @axilaxil:disqus : I hope it’s worth mentioning a few other ends of the elephant, while i ponder your bessel puzzle…

            Energy *is* a huge current market, and by replacing much of the overhead of energy production, energy will substitute for a greater proportion of the market, while the gain in market efficiency increases equilibrium capital… we’ll need a lot of buttered cats, spinning inches above the ground, for our hyperloops… BUT!

            Materials are the real bottleneck. Especially as demand explodes for power-gobbling circuits! Power costs were what held back exascale supercomputers, right? LENR = burn power, build a big one. And, self-trickle charged devices, metropolitan and industrial generators… wherever LENR amplifies demand and usage, there is a huge increase in *material* use, as well.

            So, LENR beams, not hot filaments, may better meet material demands… In particular, i’m with beams for heat AND osmium, to produce plenty of ‘osmium-lipids'(they are a set of materials which make other rare materials easier to gather and process – high temp/press deep ocean vents)! Seeing as we’ll all need lots of gallium, yttrium, etc for our fancy future tech, a set of carbide and osmium dioxide membranes would make vents profitable, in unclaimed and otherwise inaccessible markets 🙂 The real win for DIY, as i see it, isn’t cheap power – it’s being able to live comfortably on some of that 70% unclaimed surface, as de-territorialized consortia. Meh.

            I’ll keep studying – thank you!

          • Steve H

            Touche’

            There should be an accent on the “e” but my iPad is set for UK. No French character map, as far as I’m aware.

          • bachcole

            oaklandthinktank, how do you get the blue font?

          • Oaklandthinktank

            I ask nicely!

          • bachcole

            In other words, you don’t know.

  • adriano

    To be fair it wasnt because of skeptics or critics that there was so much hope and expectation. It was only because of Rossi’s claim. Without those calims there would not be such pressure and delusion from the people who follow him. If he already knows that mass production will not start soon, what is the reason behind those claims?

  • Ophelia Rump

    You did not mention what hydrogen does to metals.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You did not mention what hydrogen does to metals.

    I particularly like the part of the article about mass production.
    If they focus on getting their profit from the chips, and allowing fabricators to get their profit from fabricating, then the world will have LENR sooner rather than long after we have all died of old age.

  • sam

    If we gain nothing else from following A.R we get a free
    Lesson in patience.

    • bachcole

      For me, LENR in general and A.R. specifically have given me a real and very valuable lesson in practical epistemology: How is it that we know anything. In the age of TMI, this becomes a practical problem for almost everyone.

    • hunfgerh

      Back to the roots. P @ F did their work with a 12 V battery at room temperature.

      • Steve Savage

        I followed your blog and the EEStor saga for almost as long, gave up on it 2-3 years ago. There was just too much Drama and not enough evidence. However, you did a great job covering the story. I am certain that things will turn out better for Rossi than they did for EEStor.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      Your explanations for
      Seimens etc. are as valid as my questions about them walking away are

      What is valid or the problem here? You saying that telling everyone here is the sky is blue is a valid point? As I stated this is common in business. What is WRONG is an attempt to point out this is some warning flag or big deal – it is not and amounts to NO MORE than telling everyone the sky is blue. The Wright Brothers also had a hard time making deals with perspective companies also.

      Rossi also walked away from Musk (brother of Tesla motors) – Rossi stated the offers and terms of what he had to give up were not to his liking.

      However, what is more significantly here is Rossi dropping big industrial names in an attempt to gain credibility – this is a warning flag and a common ploy by people attempting to gain credibility when they have little. So in past business dealings, those dropping “names” to achieve credibility also tend to be the kind of people you don’t want to do business with.

      In fact Rossi did sign and make a deal with IH – so you can’t make the point Rossi never signs a deal. The fact that the IH deal gone sideways is a different pattern and issue. However, is this lack of deals a warning flag? Sure, absolutely!

      As for the factories? One can look at :

      Where does the above first link suggest, hint or state or imply that some factory exists? After all, if you going to up-hold everyone else to your high standards, then should not such up-holding apply to you?

      Nowhere in above is some kind of automated production factory mentioned. A capacity of 30 to 100 plants is not ANY kind of automated factory, but is clearly a piece meal assembly operation in a warehouse. After all, who built the existing plants we know about? The early model was VERY crude, but the 1MW plant from the yearlong test looks VERY nice. So someone had to build this plant and thus LOGICALLY Rossi has the ability to produce such plants. I would not call this a “factory”, but I suppose one could. The irony here is since you assume that 30 units a year is some factory, then it is VERY reasonable that Rossi can deliver that many units per year – after all who build the existing plant for Rossi? Why not
      use the same people – I sure they can ramp up to 30 units with ease.

      And as for a sale, sure – just after that 2011 demo Rossi stated another party showed interest and offered to purchase an ecat. So he sold a unit.

      However, a sale does not mean a delivery or that requirements of that signed deal ever occurs. Surely you purchased things that require a contract in life, right? I hope you purchasing things beyond a bottle of pop.

      I mean, in real estate we see this all the time. An offer is made, and accepted. (a sale). However in the meantime, either financing fails, the inspection from the bank (who making the loan) fails, or a zillion things can occur. Don’t know of any kind of business deal that does not have some kind of “subject to”.

      For example, you are at the car dealer. And the sales guy offers you a great deal on a car. You can sign, but what happens when you go home and your hot super model girlfriend does not like the car and threatens to leave you? Or what happens if on the way home you see the same
      car for half the price?

      So while many people sign such deals, you simply scribble on the side “subject to” financing, or in this case subject to my hot super model (or the nagging wife) not liking the car. Now you have an easy way out and you don’t have to accept the deal.

      That way I not stuck. But a sale was made, they rang the “gong” bell at the car dealer! However that “sale” has many conditions and subject to. So anytime I buy a car, I write down several subject to’s that allow me to back out of that deal or “sale”.

      So saying one sold a unit is spectacular different then saying one delivered to a customer – a grand canyon of difference. Given after that 2011 demo Rossi found IH as a partner and designed and built a new plant, it made little sense to spend time building and selling that older crude 1MW plant demoed in 2011 that resulted in that sale.

      So in the above, was a sale made? Most likely, but Rossi then moved to the USA and a sale of a car or anything without the terms being met (such as something as simple as delivery!), then that sale and deal not going to occur, is it?

      And Rossi stated that the deal with IH and the yearlong test is what changed his focus from production to that of testing. (and 89 million does change most people’s minds quite fast).

      So the above first link says nothing about a factory, and yet you providing a link a proof of some factory. And the fact that several plats have been built, then clearly some kind of production ability MUST exist to have built the existing plants.

      I don’t see why such VERY LOW delivery rates could not be achieved by Rossi using the SAME people who built the existing 1MW plant he has. So based on your definition of a factory productions say 30 units a year, that’s perfectly reasonable.

      However NEVER at any point did I assume or think or accept that production possibilities of 30 units is a factory by any stretch of my imagination.

      However, do we “mostly” have conjecture on Rossi claims? Absolutely! I never thought otherwise. We don’t have solid validations of his technology and how well it performs.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Obvious

    Well, an interesting tidbit is the exclusion of the Italian military in the licence agreement with IH.

  • hunfgerh

    Back to the roots. P @ F did their work with a 12 V battery at room temperature.

  • Gerald

    In the case of Siemens just look at the company’s actions last 4 years. Divisions they sold, companies they were interested in. Of course this just can be biznis as usual, but it fits Rossi’s case also. They are focusing/preparing for the next step in energy. We’ll see what the source wil be, probably more then one.

  • pg

    -5!

  • HS61AF91

    go get your feathers, it’s almost Pow Wow time.

  • Um… Clean Planet just filed (EDIT: correction, filed in July 2014, now public) a patent for a reactor with COP 33. They claim neutron emissions and detection and put forth a theory about heavy electrons causing higher fusion rates via tunneling.

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3306-Mizuno-USPTO-Patent-Application-June-2-2016/

    Those Japanese pranksters! /s

    • Ged

      Fascinating! Thank you for the share.

      So much going on in the field now. We public are almost always years behind the true cutting edge. I do like the precision of some of the details in this application, like nano particle sizes among others. Could be interesting to try to replicate.

      Some of the language is quite curious too. Using a deuterium atmosphere to occlude the hydrogen (not deuterium?) pre-bound (stored) in the particle surface to enhance the reaction?

      Edit: Can’t believe it took 2 years for the USPTO to make this application public. How many more LENR patents are floating around we aren’t yet privy to? (rhetorical question, I know)

  • Warthog

    This is the typical SOP of the “stealth skeptopath”. I have dealt with many of this sort on this and other fora. There are others here.

  • Warthog

    There “is” a middle ground. He legitimately has technology, but is using obfuscationary tactics to lead existing and likely competitors off in non-productive directions, while he forges on in perfecting the tech.

    • sam

      Dear Andrea
      Can you tell if the ‘European partner’ with whom you do the test have seen the light?
      Kind regards, Gerard

      Gerard McEk:
      Yes.
      Warm Regards
      A.R.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    He
    stated many times that the factory WAS wonderful and they were READY to produce 30-100 units per year.

    Really, I don’t recall ever reading that in the past 5 years. Do you have a link or quote to this effect? Every context of manufacturing was in the context of the future tense.

    How
    can you explain that National Instruments and Seimens would walk away from the
    biggest invention of the century?

    Rossi never gave them a deal. And I don’t believe that Rossi ever stated anything other than he was talking to National Instruments and “suggesting” some kind of partership. I believe test and instrument equipment was being purchased from NI, and Rossi also tossed in the idea that some kind of partnership might be mutually beneficial.

    Suppliers are offered these types of ideas all the time. I need some piping from you, and if you partner with me and supply me with pipe, then it is some kind of mutual benefit. Business get these types of offers every day. Even in software
    development I often get these types of offers. The business will say build me
    the software we need and THEN we can sell that software together. However, if
    that worked, then no business would ever have to pay for in-house software development, would they?

    Same goes for Siemens. And from what I recall, Rossi was talking to Siemens about their lower temp turbines. And again likely Rossi may have suggested some type of partnership if Siemens was going to supply some test units – but again, this occurs often in business and most manufactures walk away from such deals.

    Hey, I need a new furnace, so let me become a dealer for you, and you supply me with a free furnace in the meantime.

    To be fair, Rossi certainly has dropped those names in attempts to gain credibility – and this is a HUGE warning flag.

    As for BLP? Their issue is they changed their theory, changed their story, and changed their ideas, and changed even what they plan to build many times. Some of the things they cooked up are stupid – I see them as a firm
    simply milking money out of investors.

    Rossi is different than BLP in that he been quite consistent in what he has, what he wants to do, and has doggelity pursued his technology. And Rossi built several plants. The early 1MW plant was crude, but the yearlong test unit was REALLY nice in terms of design and engineering.
    And Rossi has allowed tests of his units. (some may question the testing, but Rossi has allowed such testing).

    As for Lugano testers coming forward? They likely don’t feel the need to, or even are aware that they need to. You think they’re going to come here and start blogging and auguring with some kid typing away in their basement? Their time is valuable. The testing was ALREADY done, so what exactly are they going to say to objections? I mean, what possible statement would one expect from them other then what they included in the report? I mean, anyone disagreeing wants the test re-done. I see little reason for these testers to come and have mud slung at them on the internet.

    So the Lugano testers likely don’t feel the need to do anything, or they not interesting in fighting on the internet with some basement blogger. And unless someone going to pay them, I highly doubt they want to spend days simply re-iterating what they already done. And this would certainly be the case unless funds are available to pay these people for their time.

    At the end of the day, you do have some valid points, and the most significant is lack of quality verifications of the ecat. This remains an issue. While much circumstantial evidence exists to support Rossi case, there are many red flags and issues that hurts Rossi.

    Given the current situation, then we simply have to wait for higher quality information on Rossi technology to surface, and until such time this occurs, then one has to temper what Rossi claims with caution.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • AdrianAshfield

      Kalial, Thanks for saving me the trouble of answering 😉
      Many credible scientists have seen the E-Cat and have been persuaded that it works.
      It is NOT in Rossi’s interest to provide absolute proof that it works until he is ready for production.
      I think he talks about it because he wants to share the excitement that he feels.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Actually, I quite much agree with what Bob is stating in regards to page views origination from such organizations.

    The simple matter is hits from DoD does not mean that in some official capacity these organisations are watching this site. So in this light, what Bob states is perfectly logical and makes sense. You can’t conclude that these organizations are monitoring ECW in some official capacity based on such information.

    The idea that you want to turn a blind eye to clear logic and reason and ignore someone pointing out the weakness of the given conclusion is NOT a reason to say someone is negative. In fact this shows rather clear thought. And it also shows someone has some awareness as to how the internet works (again, are we to embrace ignorance is
    bliss?).

    However, it ALSO important to note and point out that this evidence does mean employes etc. are not keeping up on the ecat story within those organizations. And even MORE important is while such page views don’t mean official capacity, the REVERSE is also true! It could very well mean such acts ARE an official capacity.

    I would think the DoD uses proxies and thus their page views are obfuscated. However, DoE, or “most” government organizations would not use nor need some type of proxy to browse the web anonymously. (and since they are public funded, then this is MORE so – in fact I suspect they not allowed to do so!).

    Most important here is **if** readers were to walk away concluding that page views don’t mean anything would be a wrong conclusion.

    So it is VERY reasonable to accept that at higher levels of government they are VERY aware of the ecat. There is credible evince that higher levels of overnment are aware of this site and are following the LENR story. The geo-political ramifications of this technology are MASSIVE and anyone with a brain would conclude as a result the LENR story is an important one not to be ignored by any government (or industrial entity).

    So while defense and security page views likely are obfuscated, the rest would not be. (so unfair to lump all government into one basket – it simply not the case).

    And evidence exists that shows governments are taking note of LENR and even ECW.

    It was rather recent on ECW that a reader sent an inquiry to their government in the UK and they confirmed they are aware of Rossi.

    The other is the recent call by the US Secretary of Defense being directed to provide a briefing to the US House Armed Services committee on LENR. In fact I am willing to MUCH entertain that this announcement is likely VERY much the result of sites like ECW.

    People will cry out when LENR hits the market as to where the government was in all of this. Why public fund these institutions when they not doing their job? Huge egg will appear and MUCH finger pointing between and to these institutions will occur if LENR hits the market big time.

    So the PRIME motivation for the government to at least pay some lip service to LENR is very likely due to sites like ECW and the rising awareness of LENR.

    Clear evidence exists that such organizations are watching the LENR story. And again Bob pointing out that intelligence organizations would most certainly use a proxy to obfuscate their page views makes perfect sense, but does not invalidate the conclusion being made from such page views.

    So DoE, NASA or any major company has little reason to “hide” this fact and I much suspect they don’t use obfuscate their IP address – I suspect most government organizations are not even allowed to do so.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Martin
    • More court cases to come then, if IH refuses (as it almost certainly will) to reassign or abandon the patents it holds. Formal termination of the agreement is now unimportant to them as they intend to develop their own ‘version’ of CF by using Brillouin’s work incorporating some Rossi IP, but loss of the patents would severely hamper their ambitions and they will fight very hard to keep these.

      The confidence that Rossi (through Leonardo) displays when up against IH and its backers, APCO, Jones Day et al. is impressive. Another indication that he has secured the backing of some powerful player?

      • Omega Z

        Legally, I’m pretty certain Rossi has the upperhand in the IP War.

        Any Lawyer who see’s it that way won’t hesitate to take this on. If the Lawyer wins, Industrial heat would have to pay the legal fees as per current U.S. Patent Law.

  • sam

    Italo R. | 6 hours ago
    Dear Dr. Rossi, I know that it is premature, but can you tell us if you are satisfied about how the test is going till now?
    Kind Regards,
    Italo R.
    Andrea Rossi | 6 hours ago
    Italo R.:
    So far so good.
    F8.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Italo R. | 6 hours ago
    Dear Dr. Rossi, I know that it is premature, but can you tell us if you are satisfied about how the test is going till now?
    Kind Regards,
    Italo R.
    Andrea Rossi | 6 hours ago
    Italo R.:
    So far so good.
    F8.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • More court cases to come then, if IH disputes the termination or refuses (as it probably will) to reassign the patents it holds. The confidence that Rossi (through Leonardo) displays when up against IH and its backers, APCO, Jones Day et al. is impressive. Another indication that he has secured the backing of some powerful player?

    • Omega Z

      Legally, I’m pretty certain Rossi has the upperhand in the IP War.

      Any Lawyer who see’s it that way won’t hesitate to take this on. If the Lawyer wins, Industrial heat would have to pay the legal fees as per current U.S. Patent Law.

  • Jacques

    Now it’s up to the market to decide if the spectre of cheap electricity is going to be worth all the houses that will accidentally burn down, 🙂

    • kdk

      It isn’t too hard to flush a system if runaway temps are detected. A random guess would be that Rossi’s system already uses fluid/gas mixing/flushing to control the reaction on the fly and that’s what the control computers are about.

    • Steve Swatman

      I didnt hear of anywhere burning down yet, did I miss something?

      • Jacques

        I was trying to be amusing — although I imagine a house full of pencil-sized 1400-degree C devices might give insurance companies pause.

        • Steve Swatman

          Thats what all the testing is about, insurance just looks at the risk, so you might be right for home units.

        • Omega Z

          ->”house full of pencil-sized 1400-degree C devices might give insurance companies pause”

          I agree about 1400-degree C devices…

          Insurance has a growing concern about home installed Solar panels.
          Solar panels can not be turned off should the home catch fire. Even at night, the ambient light from emergency vehicles produce enough electricity that it creates the hold on effect.(Can’t let go of) Fire departments are of the thought that these homes should be left to burn and to protect only nearby structures.

          Aside from the other issues of rural areas of fire protection costs itself, without actually having fire protection, fire insurance is god awful expensive greatly out wieghing any energy $ savings. You may not even be able to get fire protection insurance.
          ————————————————————————-
          The Answer is to isolate the problem.

          Years ago when heating costs spiked, people built outdoor hausa’s- a steel wood burning furnace contained in an insulated block building with the space between filled with sand & rock(heat sink) with duct or plumbing to pipe the heat into their homes. This solved all safety issues of obtaining fire insurance.

          From a purely economic view, I think LENR will be used in home heating, but electrical will still be provided by grid tho likely a localized micro grid system.

          • Rene

            The hold effect is an AC effect, not DC.
            PV panels are fused specifically to deal with overloads,
            and no, there is not a fire insurance problem with them.

          • Omega Z

            Hold on is caused from muscle contraction from electrical shock. Tho some will tell you otherwise, I can tell you 1st hand that DC can cause this as well. As more people install panels, it takes on more emphasis.

            The fire insurance problem is being discussed in the western part of the U.S.. They want to have regulations in place before it becomes a wide spread issue and a political hot subject.

            Considering the political goals, they will likely require the Insurance to cover the homes with panels. It will be reflected in higher premium costs.

          • Rene

            Once again, it is not a problem because the issues have been dealt with: http://solarenergy.net/News/tackling-risks-solar-panels-pose-firefighters/
            I can tell you first hand I’ve survived 80VDC and even 300VDC. Granted I wasn’t watered down to 300ohms.
            Second, it’s let-go current, and it takes 5x the amps DC to prevent let-go as compared to AC, which is why DC is not considered more unsafe as you intimate. Besides, the solution, as I mentioned previously, is fusing the arrays. My system has fuses on each panel set. I can crowbar the entire array to blow all the fuses. Meets California safety regulations.
            Third, mains power or backup generator power (which is what happens when the mains power cuts out will kill you faster because it’s AC. It’s all a matter of setting up the systems to have disconnects, whether mains, backup generator, or PV panels, and the procedures have been in place for years.
            Fourth, there is no insurance problem, not more than the issue of backup generators.
            You are just fear mongering the issue. Get over it.

          • more renewables bashing from Omega and more of me asking you for links showing evidence for your rather outlandish claims.

            Maybe this time you’ll comply.

          • bachcole

            What is the maximum heat in the flame of a natural gas furnace? I am betting that it is in the 1400 C range. I am also going the bet that the volume of 1400 C heat in the combined flames of a natural gas furnace is larger than the total volume of heat of an E-Cat that would be used to heat my house. And the best part is that when the E-Cat croaks, it just croaks. But should the natural gas furnace flame croak but the gas flow does not stop, then my whole family and perhaps even some neighbors croak.

          • Omega Z

            And you would Win that bet. But that’s the temperature of the flame with draft induced combustion. However, the heat exchanger will not be higher then about 800`F on older furnaces with large heat exchanger chamber. Exchanger surface temps are controlled by airflow. The blower motor kicks in around 140`F on high efficiency furnaces. A little higher on the old systems

            If the heat exchanger operated at very high temps, they would need to use a nickel/steal alloy which is quite expensive and in addition they would need to be larger or they would expel that heat out the flue. In high efficiency furnaces, that would not be good as the flue pipe is schedule 40 PVC pipe as can be seen in the right image that would catch fire. The flue exhaust temp isn’t supposed to exceed 105`F.

            http://inspectapedia.com/heat/0814s.jpg

            Note the heat exchanger setup on the right is the type in my furnace. Just 3.5 inches above the flame jets sets a plastic composite drip pan on the bottom of the AC evaporator coils not to exceed 200`F.

            As to safety, Today’s furnace is designed with failsafe components and are in multiples in a loop. If any single switch fails, the system shuts everything down even if nothing is wrong otherwise.

            I’ll be the 1st to tell you they are safer then they have ever been. That said, I will argue with the designers to never say never. I have personally witnessed the supposedly imposible.

            As to my previous post, Just pointing out there are answers to any problem that others use as an excuse to say they shouldn’t be allowed in the home.

            Some LENR appears to give off dangerous radiation etc. Key word being “some”. That doesn’t exclude the others that don’t. Someone may build a bomb. Whether available to the consumer or not, the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Not a reason to keep the safe ones off the market. It’s a nonsense argument of skeptics.

            Note E-cats will have their own safety issues, but with that in mind, you can build them to be safe (Something to catch the molten reactor after a runaway.) If all else fails, put it in a box and pipe in the heat. It would be no different then a split AC system where the evaporator sets above the furnace and the condenser sets out by the side of the house.

            If someone develops an economical heat absorption chiller for residential cooling, an outside system is ideal and more economical.

          • bachcole

            I love http://www.ecatworld.com. There is always an expert about something. Thank you. (:->)

    • bachcole

      From what I have seen, it is hardly as dangerous as what we already have. I worried for months about my old gas furnace killing me and my family.

  • kdk

    It isn’t too hard to flush a system if runaway temps are detected. A random guess would be that Rossi’s system already uses fluid/gas mixing/flushing to control the reaction on the fly and that’s what the control computers are about.

  • sam

    Gerard McEk
    June 3, 2016 at 2:04 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Happy birthday!
    I hope things are progressing on to your satisfaction, especially this day.
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi | 39 minutes ago
    Gerard McEk:
    Thank you; yes, we are going on well.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • sam

      Tom Conover
      June 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM
      Hello Andrea,

      How does your work go today? Would you describe your QuarkX(3) as troublesome, carefree, playful, or amazing today?

      Tom

      Translate
      Andrea Rossi
      June 4, 2016 at 5:06 PM
      Tom Conover:
      carefree.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

  • sam

    Gerard McEk
    June 3, 2016 at 2:04 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    Happy birthday!
    I hope things are progressing on to your satisfaction, especially this day.
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi | 39 minutes ago
    Gerard McEk:
    Thank you; yes, we are going on well.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Tom Conover
    June 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM
    Hello Andrea,

    How does your work go today? Would you describe your QuarkX(3) as troublesome, carefree, playful, or amazing today?

    Tom

    Translate
    Andrea Rossi
    June 4, 2016 at 5:06 PM
    Tom Conover:
    carefree.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Anon2012_2014

    More like 7 years of hell for us LENR fans. We hang out and watch Rossi and nothing happens that’s public. Great.

  • Steve Swatman

    I didnt hear of anywhere burning down yet, did I miss something?

    • Jacques

      I was trying to be amusing — although I imagine a house full of pencil-sized 1400-degree C devices might give insurance companies pause.

      • Steve Swatman

        Thats what all the testing is about, insurance just looks at the risk, so you might be right for home units.

      • Omega Z

        ->”house full of pencil-sized 1400-degree C devices might give insurance companies pause”

        I agree about 1400-degree C devices…

        Insurance has a growing concern about home installed Solar panels.
        Solar panels can not be turned off should the home catch fire. Even at night, the ambient light from emergency vehicles produce enough electricity that it creates the hold on effect.(Can’t let go of) Fire departments are of the thought that these homes should be left to burn and to protect only nearby structures.

        Aside from the other issues of rural areas of fire protection costs itself, without actually having fire protection, fire insurance is god awful expensive greatly out wieghing any energy $ savings. You may not even be able to get fire protection insurance.
        ————————————————————————-
        The Answer is to isolate the problem.

        Years ago when heating costs spiked, people built outdoor hausa’s- a steel wood burning furnace contained in an insulated block building with the space between filled with sand & rock(heat sink) with duct or plumbing to pipe the heat into their homes. This solved all safety issues of obtaining fire insurance.

        From a purely economic view, I think LENR will be used in home heating, but electrical will still be provided by grid tho likely a localized micro grid system.

        • Rene

          The hold effect is an AC effect, not DC.
          PV panels are fused specifically to deal with overloads,
          and no, there is not a fire insurance problem with them.

          • sam

            Andrea Rossi | 4 hours ago
            Peter Metz:
            It is a joint effort, so far.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.
            Peter Metz | 4 hours ago
            Dear Andrea Rossi,
            Based on some of your other answers, I’m wondering is the ongoing QuarkX test executed by the your new potential customer/partner or is this a joint effort? That is, is the test a “hands-off” test being performed entirely by them?
            Wishing you positive F8,
            Peter Metz

          • Omega Z

            Hold on is caused from muscle contraction from electrical shock. Tho some will tell you otherwise, I can tell you 1st hand that DC can cause this as well. As more people install panels, it takes on more emphasis.

            The fire insurance problem is being discussed in the western part of the U.S.. They want to have regulations in place before it becomes a wide spread issue and a political hot subject.

            Considering the political goals, they will likely require the Insurance to cover the homes with panels. It will be reflected in higher premium costs.

          • Rene

            Once again, it is not a problem because the issues have been dealt with: http://solarenergy.net/News/tackling-risks-solar-panels-pose-firefighters/
            I can tell you first hand I’ve survived 80VDC and even 300VDC. Granted I wasn’t watered down to 300ohms.
            Second, it’s let-go current, and it takes 5x the amps DC to prevent let-go as compared to AC, which is why DC is not considered more unsafe as you intimate. Besides, the solution, as I mentioned previously, is fusing the arrays. My system has fuses on each panel set. I can crowbar the entire array to blow all the fuses. Meets California safety regulations.
            Third, mains power or backup generator power (which is what happens when the mains power cuts out will kill you faster because it’s AC. It’s all a matter of setting up the systems to have disconnects, whether mains, backup generator, or PV panels, and the procedures have been in place for years.
            Fourth, there is no insurance problem, not more than the issue of backup generators.
            You are just fear mongering the issue. Get over it.

  • sam

    Dear Andrea
    Can you tell if the ‘European partner’ with whom you do the test have seen the light?
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Gerard McEk:
    Yes.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • Omega Z

    And you would Win that bet. But that’s the temperature of the flame with draft induced combustion. However, the heat exchanger will not be higher then about 800`F on older furnaces with large heat exchanger chamber. Exchanger surface temps are controlled by airflow. The blower motor kicks in around 140`F on high efficiency furnaces. A little higher on the old systems

    If the heat exchanger operated at very high temps, they would need to use a nickel/steal alloy which is quite expensive and in addition they would need to be larger or they would expel that heat out the flue. In high efficiency furnaces, that would not be good as the flue pipe is schedule 40 PVC pipe as can be seen in the right image that would catch fire. The flue exhaust temp isn’t supposed to exceed 105`F.

    http://inspectapedia.com/heat/0814s.jpg

    Note the heat exchanger setup on the right is the type in my furnace. Just 3.5 inches above the flame jets sets a plastic composite drip pan on the bottom of the AC evaporator coils not to exceed 200`F.

    As to safety, Today’s furnace is designed with failsafe components and are in multiples in a loop. If any single switch fails, the system shuts everything down even if nothing is wrong otherwise.

    I’ll be the 1st to tell you they are safer then they have ever been. That said, I will argue with the designers to never say never. I have personally witnessed the supposedly imposible.

    As to my previous post, Just pointing out there are answers to any problem that others use as an excuse to say they shouldn’t be allowed in the home.

    Some LENR appears to give off dangerous radiation etc. Key word being “some”. That doesn’t exclude the others that don’t. Someone may build a bomb. Whether available to the consumer or not, the cat is out of the bag so to speak. Not a reason to keep the safe ones off the market. It’s a nonsense argument of skeptics.

    Note E-cats will have their own safety issues, but with that in mind, you can build them to be safe (Something to catch the molten reactor after a runaway.) If all else fails, put it in a box and pipe in the heat. It would be no different then a split AC system where the evaporator sets above the furnace and the condenser sets out by the side of the house.

    If someone develops an economical heat absorption chiller for residential cooling, an outside system is ideal and more economical.

  • sam

    Gerard McEk
    June 6, 2016 at 4:14 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    The tests on the QuarkX’s are probably finished now.
    1. Are you pleased about how it went?
    2. You tested three of them. Were they the same?
    3. Or were they ‘tuned’ to optimize for Light, Heat and Electrical energy?
    4. Did you also test it in combination with a jet?
    You told us that this week will be of utmost importance. I wish you all the fortune in your new partnering effort and that it will be the right choice for a long and fruitful future!
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi
    June 6, 2016 at 6:14 AM
    Gerard McEk:
    The test is not yet finished, but I can anticipate as follows:
    1- F8
    2- so far moreless yes
    3- no
    4- no
    Thank you for your sympathy,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • sam

      Tom Conover
      June 6, 2016 at 9:32 PM
      Dear Andrea,

      Today was an important day in the testing for you, and we all are hoping that things went smoothly. Did the QuarkX(3) perform carefree for you today?

      Thank you,

      Tom

      Andrea Rossi
      June 6, 2016 at 10:19 PM
      Tom Conover:
      Still very promising.
      We are working very hard and very well.
      Still F8.
      Warm Regards
      A.R.

  • sam

    Gerard McEk
    June 6, 2016 at 4:14 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    The tests on the QuarkX’s are probably finished now.
    1. Are you pleased about how it went?
    2. You tested three of them. Were they the same?
    3. Or were they ‘tuned’ to optimize for Light, Heat and Electrical energy?
    4. Did you also test it in combination with a jet?
    You told us that this week will be of utmost importance. I wish you all the fortune in your new partnering effort and that it will be the right choice for a long and fruitful future!
    Kind regards, Gerard

    Andrea Rossi
    June 6, 2016 at 6:14 AM
    Gerard McEk:
    The test is not yet finished, but I can anticipate as follows:
    1- F8
    2- so far moreless yes
    3- no
    4- no
    Thank you for your sympathy,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sam

    Andrea Rossi | 4 hours ago
    Peter Metz:
    It is a joint effort, so far.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    Peter Metz | 4 hours ago
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    Based on some of your other answers, I’m wondering is the ongoing QuarkX test executed by the your new potential customer/partner or is this a joint effort? That is, is the test a “hands-off” test being performed entirely by them?
    Wishing you positive F8,
    Peter Metz

  • sam

    Tom Conover
    June 6, 2016 at 9:32 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Today was an important day in the testing for you, and we all are hoping that things went smoothly. Did the QuarkX(3) perform carefree for you today?

    Thank you,

    Tom

    Andrea Rossi
    June 6, 2016 at 10:19 PM
    Tom Conover:
    Still very promising.
    We are working very hard and very well.
    Still F8.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.