Report on Preliminary Findings From E-Cat QuarkX Testing Posted on Ecat.com

The following has been posted on the Ecat.com website here: http://ecat.com/news/ecat-quark-x-preliminary-report-findings

14, 2016 on ECAT News
Report Disclaimer:

THIS IS NOT A THIRD PARTY REPORT AND ALL THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE BY ANDREA ROSSI AND HIS TEAM. THEREFORE THESE RESULTS CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AT ANY EFFECT OTHER THAN AN INTERNAL PROCESS CONTROL, NOTHING MORE.

DESCRIPTION OF THE QUARK X:

Cylinder made with proper material:

Dimensions:
length 30 mm
diam 1 mm
Energy produced: 100 Wh/h
Energy consumed: 0.5 Wh/h
Light produced (percentage of the energy produced): 0-50%
Electric energy produced: 0-10%
Heat produced: 0- 100%
Light, energy and heat can be modulated to modulate the percentages within the limits above listed, provided the combined percentages must total 100%.

Extremely interesting is the blue light, the analysis of which has resolved theoretical problems related to the roots of the effect.

Temperature on the surface of the QuarkX: more than 1,500*C
Note: 2 other QuarkX put in analogous situation gave the same results.

Further disclaimer:

THIS IS NOT A THIRD PARTY REPORT. IT IS AN INTERNAL REPORT RELATED TO MEASURES MADE BY LEONARDO CORPORATION

End of the report.

ECAT Quark X preliminary report findings

Description of the photo:

Photo of the heat exchanger pipe that contains the QuarkX: the light spot is through a light eye holed in the pipe. The blue halo from the hole has been analyzed and has made possible to understand the theoretical roots of the effect: the QuarkX is inside the pipe .

NOTE: THE PHOTO HAS BEEN MANIPULATED TO FORBID HIGH DEFINITION. The colors have been partially obscured. The light is much more intense.

  • Curbina

    Well, a COP of 200, a very small device, and a whole new world of guessing is ahead of us.

    • Zephir

      The practical impact would also depend on how long this reactor will be capable to run before depletion or poisoning – nevertheless it looks very interesting anyway.

  • Curbina

    Well, a COP of 200, a very small device, and a whole new world of guessing is ahead of us.

    • Zephir

      The practical impact would also depend on how long this reactor will be capable to run before depletion or poisoning – nevertheless it looks very interesting anyway.

  • Curbina

    Also, speculatively, we could say that we now know why IH does not want To end the relationship with Rossi.

    • DrD

      They don’t?

      • Observer

        At this point I would say they are cursing their scientific advisory board.

      • Curbina

        They don’t even want the 11.5 millions back, if all what has been commented since the complaint was filed has basis on reality.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        Now we understand why IH doesn’t want to pay 🙂

        • Curbina

          Basically what I also think.

        • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

          yup. no wonder. They are likely following their own R&D that surpasses Rossi’s original tech he showed them as well.

  • Brokeeper

    Far beyond my expectations. Truely free energy. Congratulations Andrea Rossi!

  • Curbina

    Also, speculatively, we could say that we now know why IH does not want To end the relationship with Rossi.

    • DrD

      They don’t?

      • Observer

        At this point I would say they are cursing their scientific advisory board.

      • Curbina

        They don’t even want the 11.5 millions back, if all what has been commented since the complaint was filed has basis on reality.

  • Brokeeper

    Far beyond my expectations. Truely free energy. Congratulations Andrea Rossi!

  • Stephen

    Wow that’s nice to see thanks Andrea

  • DrD

    A thermal COP of 200,
    An electric COP = 20
    and 1mm diameter !!!!!!
    Amazing.
    And theoretically an infinite overal COP if only he could safely use the elecric for self driving/controling.

    • Gerard McEk

      And a light COP of 100 max!

    • artefact

      And > 1500C possible

  • Observer

    Everything about this device is an engineering breakthrough.

    Talk about quantum tunneling through insurmountable barriers!

  • Gerard McEk

    Very interesting. Temperature at surface of >1500C. So what material is used? Tungsten?

    • Ecco
    • Rene

      Time to starting thinking about which LENR pathway ends up popping out blue or UV photons.

      • Ged

        As Zephir noted, it is probably a confined plasma similar to hot fusion but at way lower (i.e. Cold fusion) temperatures. Any mechanism that could deal with a plasma state would be a good target for a theory. The nickel could still be alloyed in the center and still solid as a nickel tungsten alloy which can go over 1700 C. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nickel-alloys-melting-points-d_1439.html

        • Ecco

          It could go higher if it’s actually primarily made of a ceramic material.

          • Zephir

            The high voltage used would also require insulating material, which doesn’t conduct electricity at high temperature.

        • Rene

          If it’s nitrogen getting excited to emit a blue spectrum, then I guess it’s higher energy photons in the 100Kev range.

          • Zephir

            Nitrogen doesn’t need such a high energies to excite at all. The photons in 100Kev are essentially hard X-rays which are much more penetrating. They wouldn’t absorb itself in the layer of air around reactor so easily.

  • Gerard McEk

    Very interesting. Temperature at surface of >1500C. So what material is used? Tungsten?
    Edit: What do you hold of this: ‘Extremely interesting is the blue light, the analysis of which has resolved theoretical problems related to the roots of the effect.’
    Obviously the test gave also new theoretical insight.

    • Peter Wolstenholme

      Molybdenum can also stand that temperature.

    • Ecco
    • Rene

      Time to starting thinking about which LENR pathway ends up popping out blue or UV photons.

      • Ged

        As Zephir noted, it is probably a confined plasma similar to hot fusion but at way lower (i.e. Cold fusion) temperatures. Any mechanism that could deal with a plasma state would be a good target for a theory. The nickel could still be alloyed in the center and still solid as a nickel tungsten alloy which can go over 1700 C. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nickel-alloys-melting-points-d_1439.html

        • Ecco

          It could go higher if it’s actually primarily made of a ceramic material.

          • Zephir

            The high voltage used would also require insulating material, which doesn’t conduct electricity at high temperatures.

        • Rene

          If it’s nitrogen getting excited to emit a blue spectrum, then I guess it’s higher energy photons in the 100Kev range.

  • Peter Wolstenholme

    Is the electrical output something apart from the blue light? Or is it expressing the possibility of getting electricity from the light by using photo-voltaic cells? Blue light has high energy per photon so there is a good long term possibility of getting 20% electricity from 50% light power.
    And of course one wonders what support is needed to operate this tiny device. No doubt it will be a long time before we see more details.
    Anyway, it looks rather promising: congratulations Andrea.
    PeterW.

  • blanco69

    So the quark cat is a wire where maximum of 10% of the 100 watts per hour output could be in the form of electricity? Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour? I’ll believe this when I see it. I said that about the warm cat, the hot cat and the cigarette packet jetpack cat. I haven’t seen any of these fantastical machines either. We also appear to be heading into Randy Mills light show territory. He’s another guy who came up with a new fastastical machine without firstly proving his 1st one. My 16 yr old daughter writes more accurate science reports by the way – sorry, not convinced.

    • Observer

      By the time you are convinced it will be old news.

      If we want old news we could read Science or Nature.

    • Ged

      We have plenty of pictures and details of the 1MW plant and people working on it, etc. So you have seen it, as have many others. The 1MW plant hasn’t stopped being a product for sale as far as we know, and sales have been inquired into. Don’t miss the forest for the trees just cause the trees have a pretty blue glow.

    • Zephir

      /* Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour? */

      What you see is at the center is apparently the famous pink color of hydrogen plasma. X-Qark is probably formed with thin wire inside the reactor, insulated from its interior by quartz or similar pipe. The glowing discharge comes from the wire, which serves like one large glowing neon tube.

      The blue halo around pipe is more interesting: if it would point to common Cherenkov radiation, then all persons around reactor would be dead already. So it must have a different origin: from particles which still propagate superluminally, but they’re less or more nonionizing and as such harmless. Which means, these particles must have very low mass.

      This is really very new physics running there.

    • “quark cat is a wire..” More likely a very small tube with electrodes I think – a tiny plasma reactor of some type. With an overall COP of 200 it’s easy to see why it is kept small for testing and development.

      As for the rest, we can accept Rossi’s figures or reject them according to our take on the meta-data – it will make no difference whatsoever to the outcome. I’ll continue to go with ‘glass half full’ for a while I think.

    • Rene

      “Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour?” I would not assume this is a continuous power rating. It could well be 1800W for one second every hour to blast up the heat and get it to SSM.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes, that is why AR used Wh/h. It is a kind of average. I do not think it will be 1800W though.

  • Hi all

    Electrical 10% of 100 Watts is 10 Watts for .5 Watts input
    COP for pure electrical is 20.
    But 90% out put will be mix of heat and light.

    Would love to see the graphs. It would tell us a lot.

    Kind Regards walker

  • blanco69

    So the quark cat is a wire where maximum of 10% of the 100 watts per hour output could be in the form of electricity? Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour? I’ll believe this when I see it. I said that about the warm cat, the hot cat and the cigarette packet jetpack cat. I haven’t seen any of these fantastical machines either. We also appear to be heading into Randy Mills light show territory. He’s another guy who came up with a new fastastical machine without firstly proving his 1st one. My 16 yr old daughter writes more accurate science reports by the way – sorry, not convinced.

    • Observer

      By the time you are convinced it will be old news.

      If we want old news we could read Science or Nature.

    • Ged

      We have plenty of pictures and details of the 1MW plant and people working on it, etc. So you have seen it, as have many others. The 1MW plant hasn’t stopped being a product for sale as far as we know, and sales have been inquired into. Don’t miss the forest for the trees just cause the trees have a pretty blue glow.

    • Zephir

      /* Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour? */

      What you see is at the center is apparently the famous pink color of hydrogen plasma. X-Qark is probably formed with thin wire inside the reactor, insulated from its interior by quartz or similar pipe. The glowing discharge comes from the wire, which serves like one large glowing neon tube.

      The blue halo around reactor is more interesting: if it would point to common Cherenkov radiation coming from charged particles, then all persons around reactor would be already dead…. So it must have a different origin: from particles which still propagate superluminally, but they’re less or more nonionizing and as such harmless. Which means, these particles must have very low mass.

      This is really very new physics running there.

      Edit: technically the blue halo could be also formed with common corona coming from air – but I don’t understand which it should be here, because the whole reactor is probably grounded and the current passes from central wire to the interior of reactor only.

    • “quark cat is a wire..” More likely a very small tube with electrodes I think – a tiny plasma reactor of some type. With an overall COP of 200 it’s easy to see why it is kept small for testing and development.

      As for the rest, we can accept Rossi’s figures or reject them according to our take on the meta-data – it will make no difference whatsoever to the outcome. I’ll continue to go with ‘glass half full’ for a while I think.

    • Rene

      “Where the input is 0.5 watts per hour?” I would not assume this is a continuous power rating. It could well be 1800W for one second every hour to blast up the heat and get it to SSM.

      • Gerard McEk

        Yes, that is why AR used Wh/h. It is a kind of average. I do not think it will be 1800W though.

  • Hi all

    Electrical 10% of 100 Watts is 10 Watts for .5 Watts input
    COP for pure electrical is 20.
    But 90% out put will be mix of heat and light.

    Would love to see the graphs. It would tell us a lot.

    Kind Regards walker

  • Engineer48

    BTW that is an electrical energy density of:
    424kW/litre or 3,718MWh over 12 months of fuel life

    My bad. Swapped the 1st 2 numbers

    • Ged

      Where would that peg it on the energy density scale?

      • Engineer48

        Way, way beyond anything chemical.

        Lithium Ion energy density :
        250–676 Wh/L to discharge.

        QuarkX:
        3,718MWh/L to fuel empty.

        There is a small engineering issue of the 1,500C heat to deal with when using as a battery replacement!

        • NCY

          lol!

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I am getting 4244 kW/L for the full 100 watts output. That’s no less than 4.244 GW/m^3 (at least theoretically).

      • Mee too. 424 kW/litre electrical. And it should be power density.
        The second figure, energy density, should be 3.7 GWh, referring to energy per litre over 12 months.

        • Engineer48

          Mats,

          For energy density multiply power density by 24 × 365 (assuming 1 year fuel).

          • That’s what I did: 424,000 x 24 x 365 = 3,714,240,000 Wh

          • Engineer48

            Mats,

            We get the same number depending on if you round or not.

          • NCY

            Assuming the fuel charge lasts that long. If this thing is running at a higher efficiency than the older E-cats, it is possible that it could burn through its charge in a fraction of the time.

          • Sorry Eng48 – my bad: I mixed up comma and period (reading 3.7 MWh) – in most European countries, except UK, it’s the other way round:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark

          • pg

            Mats it would be great if you could have some insiders to talk to you, the same way it happened during the 1 year test. Do you see that as a possibility?

        • Gerard McEk

          If it can run during a year without refueling, which is something that should be cofirmed.

      • Ged

        Still six orders of magnitude or so below antimatter-matter anihilation, but pretty good!

  • clovis ray

    They my computer has went nuts please disregard

  • clovis ray

    Thanks, Buddy,

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    Now we understand why IH doesn’t want to pay! The E-cat patent portfolio has become worthless 🙂

    • Curbina

      Basically what I also think.

    • NCY

      yup. no wonder. They are likely following their own R&D that surpasses Rossi’s original tech he showed them as well.

  • Ged

    I am really encouraged by the huge, all caps, frank disclaimers put in the report up front. That is a lot of integrity one doesn’t often see on RnD products. So, please everyone, don’t miss the disclaimer. We need third party work on this, like is already done many times on the hotcat and done on the 1MW plant (yet that one is still stuck in legal torture for now). RnD products are almost always better than the mass produced versions usually for regulatory, safety, and product diversification reasons.

  • Ged

    I am really encouraged by the huge, all caps, frank disclaimers put in the report up front. That is a lot of integrity one doesn’t often see on RnD products. So, please everyone, don’t miss the disclaimer. We need third party work on this, like is already done many times on the hotcat and the 1MW plant (yet that one is still stuck in legal torture for now). RnD products are almost always better than the mass produced versions usually for regulatory, safety, and product diversification reasons.

  • help_lenr

    diameter 1mm ? maybe 10 mm otherwise looks like a wire.

    • Ecco

      Without further information it could still be in the form of loose, elongated pellets.

      • Gerard McEk

        It says it’s a ‘cylinder of a suitable material’, so it’s very tiny and cannot withstand much pressure, I am sure.

        • Ecco

          Maybe he should call them SpaghettiX

          http://i.imgur.com/HPn45pol.jpg

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, that’s it of cource. Rossi is Italian guy and getting back to the roots! Nice name, suggest it.

          • Ecco

            I actually tried suggesting that but it looks like he ignored the comment (as of writing). Admittedly, it was a silly one…

          • Gerard McEk

            Yes, Andrea has a particular sense of humor, not the kind of jokes the English and the Dutch would come up with.

          • You mean ones without any references to sex or bodily waste?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Good idea. But with „secret sauce“, please!

          • Or maybe rather Bucatini:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucatini

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 7:30 AM
    DrD:
    Thank you for your sustain, but I never said or wrote anywhere that electricity could be 100% of the production: that would be a nonsense.
    We expect to increase the limit of electricity production up to 20%.
    Obviously not considering the Carnot Cycle, applicable for big plants.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • DrD

      How do we search older posts on AR’s JOP? It used to be possible to download onto a single page but that option seems to have dissapeared. I think he said that in January and it did cause some puzzlement.

      • artefact
        • DrD

          Thanks, that worked and I found it but more questions than answers now.
          Anyway, I’m sure the first answer was wrong some how. 100% electric never did make sense.

      • wpj

        He did previously say that they could produce electricity, but with low efficiency. A COP of 20, though is not too low………

        • US_Citizen71

          But, only 10% of the output can be electricity so that would be low efficiency when compared with the total output.

          • wpj

            Yes, but for a CHP unit, this might be sufficient especially if they can raise it to 20%.

    • DrD

      This is puzzling.
      The Q &A was from “Amos” on 28th FEB but it is only on Rossilivecat.com.
      http://rossilivecat.com/all.html
      Doea not appear at all on JOP.
      A previous question from “Amos” doesn’t make sense and gets an appropriate answer.

      Q3175, clearly answers answers 3178.
      The times are not in order which might explain it.
      It was then discussed here an ECW because no one could believe or understand how it could be possible.

      • tlp

        I remember seeing up to 50%. 100% would be nonsense, I agree.

        • Yes I remember that too. Looks like AR went back and edited JONP when it became obvious that 50% was too optimistic.

          • DrD

            Yes, Frank got the 50% answer, a “YES”.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 7:30 AM
    DrD:
    Thank you for your sustain, but I never said or wrote anywhere that electricity could be 100% of the production: that would be a nonsense.
    We expect to increase the limit of electricity production up to 20%.
    Obviously not considering the Carnot Cycle, applicable for big plants.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • DrD

      How do we search older posts on AR’s JOP? It used to be possible to download onto a single page but that option seems to have dissapeared. I think he said that in January and it did cause some puzzlement.

      • artefact
        • DrD

          Thanks, that worked and I found it but more questions than answers now.
          Anyway, I’m sure the first answer was wrong some how. 100% electric never did make sense.

      • wpj

        He did previously say that they could produce electricity, but with low efficiency. A COP of 20, though is not too low………

        • US_Citizen71

          But, only 10% of the output can be electricity so that would be low efficiency when compared with the total output.

          • wpj

            Yes, but for a CHP unit, this might be sufficient especially if they can raise it to 20%.

    • DrD

      This is puzzling.
      The Q &A was from “Amos” on 28th FEB but it is only on Rossilivecat.com.
      http://rossilivecat.com/all.html
      It does not appear at all on JOP.
      A previous question from “Amos” doesn’t make sense and gets an appropriate answer.

      Q3175, clearly answers 3178.
      The times are not in order which might explain it.
      It was then discussed here an ECW because no one could believe or understand how it could be possible.
      Edit: quote:

      Andrea Rossi
      February 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM
      Amos:
      1-The Ecat X has a higher power density
      2- Yes, but in this case the efficiency is lower.
      Warm Regards
      A.R

      Amos
      February 28, 2016 at 5:51 AM
      Dear Mr. Rossi,
      Is the energy density & power density of the E-Cat X the same as the E-Cat? Also, is it possible for the E-Cat X to produce only electricity and no heat?
      Thanks,
      Amos.
      End quote

      • tlp

        I remember seeing up to 50%. 100% would be nonsense, I agree.

        • Yes I remember that too. Looks like AR went back and edited JONP when it became obvious that 50% was too optimistic.

          • DrD

            Yes, Frank got the 50% answer, a “YES”.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “From Geneva June 14, 2016 at 6:57 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi:
    I saw the photo, is very impressive. The blue halo is possibly ionized nitrogen. You reached high energies. Probably you have understood, as I did, what could be the source of the effect.
    Cheers,
    A friend from Geneva ( the big science is starting to take a look to what you are doing ).

    Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 7:33 AM
    From Geneva:
    Dear Friend: I agree, and I think I discovered the source of the effect.
    Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • Can any of our resident physicists please explain the significance of ionised nitrogen in this context, i.e., what source – EHT affecting surrounding air, or could something else rip nitrogen molecules apart and strip electrons when close to the reactor?

      • giovanniontheweb

        there cannot be any ultra intense magnetic field surraunding the reactor ,not knowing any of the last developments it looks more like Cherenkov

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “From Geneva June 14, 2016 at 6:57 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi:
    I saw the photo, is very impressive. The blue halo is possibly ionized nitrogen. You reached high energies. Probably you have understood, as I did, what could be the source of the effect.
    Cheers,
    A friend from Geneva ( the big science is starting to take a look to what you are doing ).

    Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 7:33 AM
    From Geneva:
    Dear Friend: I agree, and I think I discovered the source of the effect.
    Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • Can any of our resident physicists please explain the significance of ionised nitrogen in this context, i.e., what ‘source’ – simple EHT or beta affecting surrounding air? Or maybe there is some other force that could rip electrons out of nitrogen molecules? (Assuming that it’s not Cherenkov radiation from hard X-rays and Rossi won’t be with us next week!)

      Or perhaps the blue light comes from synchrotron radiation emitted by electrons spinning through an ultra-intense magnetic field surrounding the reactor? That might explain the rather mysterious tone of the CERN commenter, although not the reference to nitrogen (at least not for me).

      • giovanniontheweb

        there cannot be any ultra intense magnetic field surraunding the reactor ,not knowing any of the last developments it looks more like Cherenkov

  • Sam

    I played around in Photoshop with various filters, tone, colors and contrast.
    Maybe other can do better than me –

  • Sam

    I played around in Photoshop with various filters, tone, colors and contrast.
    Maybe other can do better than me –

    • Robert

      Your version reminds me of something Kubrick would have used in his films.
      I played around in Photoshop, too, and ended up with something more of van Gogh style.

      • psi2u2

        Nice. But what was your cop?

  • DrD

    50W light from 0.5W.
    I wonder how many Lumens it is.
    As it’s mostly blue it miight not be that amazing.

    • Monty

      would be most interesting to have a spectral power distribution for the emitted light…

    • sam

      From Geneva
      June 14, 2016 at 6:57 AM
      Dear Andrea Rossi:
      I saw the photo, is very impressive. The blue halo is possibly ionized nitrogen. You reached high energies. Probably you have understood, as I did, what could be the source of the effect.
      Cheers,
      A friend from Geneva ( the big science is starting to take a look to what you are doing ).

      Andrea Rossi
      June 14, 2016 at 7:33 AM
      From Geneva:
      Dear Friend: I agree, and I think I discovered the source of the effect.
      Thank you for your attention,
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • TomR

      The blue might be Cherenkov radiation.

      • DrD

        Posssibly but i wonder what medium could be attenuating the the light speed so much.

  • DrD

    50W light from 0.5W.
    I wonder how many Lumens it is.
    As it’s mostly blue it miight not be that amazing.

    • Monty

      would be most interesting to have a spectral power distribution for the emitted light…

    • sam

      From Geneva
      June 14, 2016 at 6:57 AM
      Dear Andrea Rossi:
      I saw the photo, is very impressive. The blue halo is possibly ionized nitrogen. You reached high energies. Probably you have understood, as I did, what could be the source of the effect.
      Cheers,
      A friend from Geneva ( the big science is starting to take a look to what you are doing ).

      Andrea Rossi
      June 14, 2016 at 7:33 AM
      From Geneva:
      Dear Friend: I agree, and I think I discovered the source of the effect.
      Thank you for your attention,
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • TomR

      The blue might be Cherenkov radiation.

      • DrD

        Posssibly but i wonder what medium could be attenuating the the light speed so much.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    At this point, all I care about is third-party evidence. This gets a yawn from me.

    • Monty

      Yeah. It’s still a “Rossi says”.

      • Ged

        Yeah, hence the big honking disclaimer he put in the report beginning and end saying as much. Really wish we knew the partner who ok’d this.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Really wish we knew if there was a partner.

          • Ged

            So far he’s never been wrong about that, so it is likely. If this follows somewhat what IH did with the hotcat, we should get third party in a year or so.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            “So far he’s never been wrong about that”

            We still don’t have anything concrete on IH’s customer. For all we know, it was just Rossi’s lawyer and some guys behind a closed door that no one ever saw.

            IH was real, but ya’ll know how that ended.

          • Ged

            Sure, but if the topic is partner, not customer, we’re doing fine on that front so far. Could always change of course.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            It’s all really shady, is where I’m getting at.

          • Ged

            So it was until IH outed themselves. Such is the nature and annoyance of the unknown.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            At this point, I feel that there is either no Partner, or there is one and they are really gullible. I hope to be wrong on both accounts.

          • psi2u2

            So, in your theory Rossi is the biggest and best scammer of the last fifty years?

            Because that would seem to be the only other option.

      • Sam

        It is important to amplify what was said in another thread recently. If the Hot Cat technology produces a high COP – what is the reasons not to commercialize it.

        Surely it would be beneficial even if much maintenance and 24/7 operators are needed.

        • DrD

          He answered that yesterday.
          Obviously it needs consolidating into a reliable product and mass producing and that is comercialisation, isnt it?.
          I wonder, why even ask, as it is clearly his objective.
          You are aware he has only just completed the R&D phase?

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      I mean, they did a test for a week and released a preliminary report… what do you expect, obviously there wasn’t going to be a third party report days after the test.

      Better this than nothing at this point. If they decide to do another big third party report, that would be great.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        I didn’t expect anything. But why even release any data when we all know that the Quark X is supposed to be “amazing” and a “total game-changer”, anyway? I guess Rossi felt he needed something to keep his audience hooked for whatever reason.

        • Ged

          People complain of he doesn’t deliver and when he does. It is fun entertainment. But also releasing product info could drum up sales and investment. Too many unknowns but we are discovering more.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Anything that is Rossi says is definitely not “delivering” in my book. One word from ABB would be.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            He didn’t have to share his internal R&D report with you. Feel free to ignore it if you wish

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Thanks, I will.

          • psi2u2

            Everyone agrees. ; )

          • Michael W Wolf

            but you are not ignoring it T.

            😉

        • sam

          He try’s to keep his followers
          informed as best he can.

        • William D. Fleming

          It was a demo for potential partners. Rossi was cajoled into releasing the results.

        • Mark Underwood

          I imagine the reasons Rossi publicly shares is:

          1) historical documentation purposes
          2) patent purposes (see “prior art”)
          3) attracting investors
          4) mercifully feeding the fans

          This is more than “Rossi says.” The fact that Rossi’s team is still intact and apparently quite happy should speak volumes.

        • DrD

          Probably because we all pester and pester for little nuggets of information and this is a giant nugget IMO. All credit to him.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    At this point, all I care about is third-party evidence. This gets a yawn from me.

    • Monty

      Yeah. It’s still a “Rossi says”.

      • Ged

        Yeah, hence the big honking disclaimer he put in the report beginning and end saying as much. Really wish we knew the partner who ok’d this.

        • Teemu Soilamo

          Really wish we knew if there was a partner.

          • Ged

            So far he’s never been wrong about that, so it is likely. If this follows somewhat what IH did with the hotcat, we should get third party in a year or so.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            “So far he’s never been wrong about that”

            We still don’t have anything concrete on IH’s customer. For all we know, it was just Rossi’s lawyer and some guys behind a closed door that no one ever saw.

            IH was real, but ya’ll know how that ended.

          • Ged

            Sure, but if the topic is partner, not customer, we’re doing fine on that front so far. Could always change of course.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            It’s all really shady, is where I’m getting at.

          • Ged

            So it was until IH outed themselves. Such is the nature and annoyance of the unknown.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            At this point, I feel that there is either no Partner, or there is one and they are really gullible. I hope to be wrong on both accounts.

          • psi2u2

            So, in your theory Rossi is the biggest and best scammer of the last fifty years?

            Because that would seem to be the only other option.

      • Sam

        It is important to amplify what was said in another thread recently. If the Hot Cat technology produces a high COP – what is the reasons not to commercialize it.

        Surely it would be beneficial even if much maintenance and 24/7 operators are needed.

        • DrD

          He answered that yesterday.
          Obviously it needs consolidating into a reliable product and mass producing and that is comercialisation, isnt it?.
          I wonder, why even ask, as it is clearly his objective.
          You are aware he has only just completed the R&D phase?

    • NCY

      I mean, they did a test for a week and released a preliminary report… what do you expect, obviously there wasn’t going to be a third party report days after the test.

      Better this than nothing at this point. If they decide to do another big third party report, that would be great.

      • Teemu Soilamo

        I didn’t expect anything. But why even release any data when we all know that the Quark X is supposed to be “amazing” and a “total game-changer”, anyway? I guess Rossi felt he needed something to keep his audience hooked for whatever reason.

        • Ged

          People complain of he doesn’t deliver and when he does. It is fun entertainment. But also releasing product info could drum up sales and investment. Too many unknowns but we are discovering more.

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Anything that is “Rossi says” definitely doesn’t qualify as ‘delivering’ in my book. One word from ABB would.

          • NCY

            He didn’t have to share his internal R&D report with you. Feel free to ignore it if you wish

          • Teemu Soilamo

            Thanks, I will.

          • psi2u2

            Everyone agrees. ; )

          • Michael W Wolf

            but you are not ignoring it T.

            😉

        • sam

          He try’s to keep his followers
          informed as best he can.

        • William D. Fleming

          It was a demo for potential partners. Rossi was cajoled into releasing the results.

        • Mark Underwood

          I imagine the reasons Rossi publicly shares is:

          1) historical documentation purposes
          2) patent purposes (see “prior art”)
          3) attracting investors
          4) mercifully feeding the fans

          This is more than “Rossi says.” The fact that Rossi’s team is still intact and apparently quite happy should speak volumes.

        • DrD

          Probably in part because we all pester and pester for little nuggets of information and this is a giant nugget IMO. All credit to him.

  • Jas

    My first thought is this is not what I was expecting. We all thought the Quark was the size of a pencil. Its absolutely F****ing tiny!

  • Mark

    I thought it was supposed to be pencil size. Are these measurements correct we think. 30mmx1mm?? I must admit I was hoping for more but expected less.

    • artefact

      He also worked with 500W and 1KW cats. He said 1KW is a cigarette size.

      • 1 cigarette = ten matchsticks?

        • artefact

          He did not say that directly but I guess yes.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      Its a tiny wire apparently. He seems to have successfully miniaturised the E-cat it seems (if the above claims are true)

      • Ged

        Kinda like Celani, interestingly enough.

        • Guest

          If it gives of soo much light it should be able to run itself using solar panel type of technology?

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            It already can. The 10% Electricity of 100 Wh/h output is 10 Wh/h. Well above the 0.5 Wh/h required to run the thing…

          • Ged

            Not impossible but very doubtful. Solar panels you can buy are still around 10-15% efficient at max, so you’d get 5 watt back at most (not counting conversion efficiencies and loss) which could run it… if the spectrum is right for the panel (don’t think blue is?) and only till the panel degrades. It isn’t impossible, but rather impractical next to heat or direct electricity.

          • artefact

            10 – 15% of 50W is 5 to 7.5W if the output is set to 50% light 50% heat.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Ged,

            Current solar panels are around 22-23%. Space cells are around 40%.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            you don’t need to use solar panels though… the pure electrical COP is 20!

          • Ged

            I saw a breakthrough last week for a 20% efficient panel which scientists were hailing as a huge leap. So I dunno. Consumer panels are sometimes as low as 8%, so maybe it depends on the definition? Full spectrum or target spectrum?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Ged,

            Here is current data

          • tlp

            BrLPs SunCell is using highly concentrated PV panels, and getting around 40% electricity, 60% heat. Next demo is 28th June, after two weeks.
            They have plans for direct electricity generation also, but decided to start with solar panels.
            Both BrLP and Rossi are targetting mass production next year, so competition is tight.

          • MorganMck

            “Competition is tight”

            A bit of an overstatement at this point don’t you think; since neither has produced a verifiable commercial product to an identified customer nor has any third-party replication been performed or even bullet-proof testing of their black-boxes been accomplished. Since BLP has decades of fantastical promises with zero deliveries and Rossi has talked of robotic factories just around the corner producing eCats for the masses for years with none in sight, lets not get too excited just yet.

            Lets ask ourselves one question: why won’t Rossi allow the supervised testing of the Quark-x as a black-box by a credible third-party (MFMP?, NASA?, Los Alamos Nat’l Lab?, SPAWAR?, UofMO?, etc.). If done as a black box, there should be no IP threat. If conducted in an open science process (a la MFMP) over an extended period, skeptics could verify results, suggest test setup and measurement improvements etc. You just stay in the lab until all the skeptics have left are mass conspiracy theories between parties with no history of such. It seems that Rossi would have much to gain from such exposure and little to lose.

            The other question I ask is why Rossi seems almost compelled to maintain near constant communications with an adoring public yet refuses to do any meaningful testing in a public forum. I just don’t get it.

      • Gerard McEk

        It says it is a ‘cylinder’, not a solid wire. It’s tiny indeed.

    • Mark Underwood

      Given 30mm x 1mm is correct, it’s like a mechanical pencil’s “lead” replacement. They are anywhere from .2 mm to 2 mm thick and several centimetres long. (And of course they are not made of lead but rather carbon in the form of graphite.)
      Given this, I imagine the nickel/lithium mixture has been greatly compressed to form something as thin, stiff and brittle as the pencil lead. Image from Wiki

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Overall, the numbers seem mutually consistent. Some details:

        At 1500C surface temperature, Stefan-Boltzmann radiation power from 30mm long and 1mm diameter tube would be 53W, assuming emissivity 1.0. Rossi says temperature is above 1500C. With emissivity 0.7, for example, temperature 2000C gives 100W.

        The object must be connected from one or both ends by some electric wires. Because the device is so small, heat conduction along those wires might be non-negligible regarding heat budget. If so, then the temperature need not be so much above 1500C to give 100W output.

        There is also heat transfer by convection in air, but at so high temperature one can almost neglect it in comparison to radiation.

        The above concerns thermal greybody radiation. Blue light is probably non-thermal in origin and its existence hints that the wall of the tube is transparent or translucent. Then, blue photons transfer energy directly, without heating up the device. Roughly speaking, one should subtract the blue photon power from the 100W to get heat output that must be matched with Stefan-Boltzmann plus heat conduction. Thus, the blue light is another mechanism by which the energy equation can hold without temperature being that much higher than 1500C.

        Commercially, I can understand that Rossi is motivated to improve the electric fraction from 10% to 20%. In electric car, for example, producing waste heat which is five times the electric power could be tolerable so that could enable a low-cost car without other moving parts except fan cooler, but ten times waste heat starts to be problematic in that regard.

        • Ged

          Thank you for your insights, Pekka.

          • psi2u2

            Yes indeed.

        • tlp

          28.6 so just after two weeks BLP is demoing their version of a hot and bright reactor, SunCell. It should be hotter and much bigger, otherwise quite similar, using hydrogen as a fuel.

  • Mark

    I thought it was supposed to be pencil size. Are these measurements correct we think. 30mmx1mm?? I must admit I was hoping for more but expected less.

    • artefact

      He also worked with 500W and 1KW cats. He said 1KW is a cigarette size.

      • 1 ‘cigarette’ = ten ‘matchsticks’?

        • artefact

          He did not say that directly but I guess yes.

    • NCY

      Its a tiny wire apparently. He seems to have successfully miniaturised the E-cat it seems (if the above claims are true)

      • Ged

        Kinda like Celani, interestingly enough.

        • Guest

          If it gives of soo much light it should be able to run itself using solar panel type of technology?

          • NCY

            It already can. It can produce direct electricity up to 10%. 10% electricity of 100 Wh/h output is 10 Wh/h of electricity. Well above the 0.5 Wh/h of electricity required to run the thing…

          • Ged

            Not impossible but very doubtful. Solar panels you can buy are still around 10-15% efficient at max, so you’d get 5 watt back at most (not counting conversion efficiencies and loss; incidence of the light; how much light actually strikes the panel since it is omni directional; and so on) which could run it… if the spectrum is right for the panel (don’t think blue is?) and only till the panel degrades. It isn’t impossible, but rather impractical next to heat or direct electricity.

          • artefact

            10 – 15% of 50W is 5 to 7.5W if the output is set to 50% light 50% heat.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Ged,

            Current solar panels are around 22-23%. Space cells are around 40%.

          • NCY

            you don’t need to use solar panels though… the pure electrical COP is 20!

          • Ged

            I saw a breakthrough last week for a 20% efficient panel which scientists were hailing as a huge leap. So I dunno. Consumer panels are sometimes as low as 8%, so maybe it depends on the definition? Full spectrum or target spectrum?

          • Engineer48

            Hi Ged,

            Here is current data

          • tlp

            BrLPs SunCell is using highly concentrated PV panels, and getting around 40% electricity, 60% heat. Next demo is 28th June, after two weeks.
            They have plans for direct electricity generation also, but decided to start with solar panels.
            Both BrLP and Rossi are targetting mass production next year, so competition is tight.

          • MorganMck

            “Competition is tight”

            A bit of an overstatement at this point don’t you think; since neither has produced a verifiable commercial product to an identified customer nor has any third-party replication been performed or even bullet-proof testing of their black-boxes been accomplished. Since BLP has decades of fantastical promises with zero deliveries and Rossi has talked of robotic factories just around the corner producing eCats for the masses for years with none in sight, lets not get too excited just yet.

            Lets ask ourselves one question: why won’t Rossi allow the supervised testing of the Quark-x as a black-box by a credible third-party (MFMP?, NASA?, Los Alamos Nat’l Lab?, SPAWAR?, UofMO?, etc.). If done as a black box, there should be no IP threat. If conducted in an open science process (a la MFMP) over an extended period, skeptics could verify results, suggest test setup and measurement improvements etc. You just stay in the lab until all the skeptics have left are mass conspiracy theories between parties with no history of such. It seems that Rossi would have much to gain from such exposure and little to lose.

            The other question I ask is why Rossi seems almost compelled to maintain near constant communications with an adoring public yet refuses to do any meaningful testing in a public forum. I just don’t get it.

          • enantiomer2000

            Just like Brilliantlight Power’s suncell.

      • Gerard McEk

        It says it is a ‘cylinder’, not a solid wire. It’s tiny indeed.

    • Mark Underwood

      Given 30mm x 1mm is correct, it’s like a mechanical pencil’s “lead” replacement. They are anywhere from .2 mm to 2 mm thick and several centimetres long. (And of course they are not made of lead but rather carbon in the form of graphite.)
      Given this, I imagine the nickel/lithium mixture has been greatly compressed to form something as thin, stiff and brittle as the pencil lead. Image from Wiki
      Edit: Just learned that there is Tungsten in it as well, possibly replacing the nickel entirely.

  • Stephen

    I can’t help thinking of Fulvio Fabiani’s words in that early interview. Who knows what new technology is possible in the future with this invention. Wow. I hope any remaining blocking issues are overcome soon and and that if there are any issues remaining that they only serve to help us better understand the process and technology.

    • Ged

      Given it is so small, should be easy to mass produce and quickly too. Have to see if that happens soon.

      • Stephen

        I really hope so. I have to say I can’t see how it would be possible to improve much on this format for a general device. Small as possible to allow many varieties of uses in combinations in various formats and distributed formats as possible but still large enough to easily handle.

  • Stephen

    I can’t help thinking of Fulvio Fabiani’s words in that early interview. Who knows what new technology is possible in the future with this invention. Wow. I hope any remaining blocking issues are overcome soon and and that if there are any issues remaining that they only serve to help us better understand the process and technology.

    • Ged

      Given it is so small, should be easy to mass produce and quickly too. Have to see if that happens soon.

      • Stephen

        I really hope so. I have to say I can’t see how it would be possible to improve much on this format for a general device. Small as possible to allow many varieties of uses in combinations in various formats and distributed formats as possible but still large enough to easily handle.

  • Ophelia Rump

    COP 200 is a delightful number.

    • MasterBlaster7

      COP of 200 is a ‘ludicrous’ number. Similar to ‘ludicrous speed’. If Rossi’s warm cat was doing 50 COP I expected 20 years of research and refinement to get to 200 COP. 200 COP is practically free energy.

      Lets say that customer X originally payed 1 million dollars a year for energy to produce his product. With the warm cat that number is cut to 20 thousand dollars. With the quark X that number is cut to 5 thousand dollars. Simply ludicrous.

      • DrD

        Even if the COP were infinite, as in conventional nuclear you still wouldn’t have free energy.
        In fact if he used only 10% ((0.5W) of the possible electric output to charge a batttery (let’s say 50% to allow for losses) then he would have 95W with no external input. “Free” as you say but of course it’s no where near being “free”.
        ENG48 gave just such a calculation yesterday.
        He admitted all his numbers are just rough estimates btw.
        As for the COP 200, if LENR is real, then 200 doesn’t strke me as at all impossible. I think we may even see further improvement.
        Unfotunately It’s not yet a product, that’s where the effort lies.

  • JDM

    I wonder how the energy of the light was measured?

    • Broad spectrum camera lightmeter perhaps? Some can give readings in lumens, so multiplying up according to photocell area, emission area(s) and distance would give an approximation.

  • JDM

    I wonder how the energy of the light was measured?

    • Broad spectrum camera lightmeter perhaps? Some can give readings in lumens, so multiplying up according to photocell area, emission area(s) and distance would give an approximation.

  • Bob

    I silently waited against hope, thought that perhaps something of value might be seen in the “report”
    .
    As has become the norm, “big event” results in a big disappointment.
    .
    No customer, no actual data, no description of the test. Nothing. Value ranges from 0 – 100%?

    This means nothing.
    .
    Even more puzzling, now an intentionally blurred image and even a disclaimer! Why would anyone put a disclaimer that their own tests were needing “disclamed”! ?
    .
    Note to Frank : Were the sentences “Report Disclaimer” and “Further disclaimer” part of the original post from Rossi or was that an editorial comment added by you? It would be very odd indeed if Rossi put disclaimers on his own report?
    .
    So much hype and possibly the worse “report” Rossi has ever released. If BLP released this, most everyone on this list would be criticizing it to no end. If Brilluion released this, it would be ran into the ground as absolute nonsense. Rossi releases it and it will be haled as ground breaking and as quoted below :
    .
    “Far beyond my expectations. Truely free energy. Congratulations Andrea Rossi!”
    .
    I guess my expectation level is set too high. 🙁

  • Bob

    I silently waited against hope, thought that perhaps something of value might be seen in the “report”
    .
    As has become the norm, “big event” results in a big disappointment.
    .
    No customer, no actual data, no description of the test. Nothing. Value ranges from 0 – 100%?

    This means nothing.
    .
    Even more puzzling, now an intentionally blurred image and even a disclaimer! Why would anyone put a disclaimer that their own tests were needing “disclamed”! ?
    .
    Note to Frank : Were the sentences “Report Disclaimer” and “Further disclaimer” part of the original post from Rossi or was that an editorial comment added by you? It would be very odd indeed if Rossi put disclaimers on his own report?
    .
    So much hype and possibly the worse “report” Rossi has ever released. If BLP released this, most everyone on this list would be criticizing it to no end. If Brilluion released this, it would be ran into the ground as absolute nonsense. Rossi releases it and it will be haled as ground breaking and as quoted below :
    .
    “Far beyond my expectations. Truely free energy. Congratulations Andrea Rossi!”
    .
    I guess my expectation level is set too high. 🙁

  • Steve Savage

    Dance Dance Dance

    Nothing left to do but engineer the hell out of this.

    26 years ago the world changed, 5 years ago we see the first usable effects of that discovery.

    Today we see that there are many potential ways to engineer increasingly productive devices using the effect.

    We stand at the precipice of a new era, of a new world.

    Energy is everything, we are closer to being able to harness the energy of the universe. In the next 20 years we will see more refinement and application of the effect. These things we see today are only the first baby steps. Today the baby walks and talks.

    I will celebrate today, deeply and without hesitation. I will salute Senior Rossi and all those who went before him. Salud! Dotore Rossi Salud!

    Dance Dance Dance

  • US_Citizen71

    If the image is de-interlaced, it seems that video hum bars appear. The blurring of the image maybe caused by interference of the device itself with the camera recording the image.

    • As you are playing with the image, I assume that any EXIF data has been deleted?

      • US_Citizen71

        Yes it has been wiped clean.

    • Ged

      Intetrsting. I had thought it looked like a jpg that had intentionally been saved several times at high compression to introduce artifacts. Afterall, if all that was done was contrast and brightness, the inverse operations would restore the image, so it can’t be that simple…

      But if it is em interference from the device, that would work and is even more interesting.

      • akupaku

        There is no way to restore the image data and detail lost in jpeg compression, it is gone.

  • US_Citizen71

    If the image is de-interlaced, it seems that video hum bars appear. The blurring of the image maybe caused by interference of the device itself with the camera recording the image.

    • As you don’t mention it, I assume that any EXIF data has been deleted?

      • US_Citizen71

        Yes it has been wiped clean.

    • Ged

      Intetrsting. I had thought it looked like a jpg that had intentionally been saved several times at high compression to introduce artifacts. Afterall, if all that was done was contrast and brightness, the inverse operations would restore the image, so it can’t be that simple…

      But if it is em interference from the device, that would work and is even more interesting.

      • akupaku

        There is no way to restore the image data and detail lost in jpeg compression, it is gone. JPEG compression is lossy although the standard defines also a lossless mode but that one is seldom used because its compression capabilities are usually small.

  • blanco69

    Plasma? Flashing blue lights? Whatever happened to Nickel and Hydrogen? What next? Smoke? Mirrors?

    • Ged

      Melt it down in front of a mirror.

    • tlp

      At least hydrogen is still there:
      Ecco Yumi
      June 14, 2016 at 8:14 AM
      Mr Andrea Rossi:
      Does the QuarkX still use hydrogen?
      Cheers,
      Ecco

      Andrea Rossi
      June 14, 2016 at 8:36 AM
      Ecco Yumi:
      Yes.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      Looking very similar what Brilliant Light Power is doing.

      • Bob

        I wonder if the 1mm diameter is a typo?
        .
        If this is a tube, the wall thickness would be extremely thin and the inside diameter very small. Not much room for fuel, heating wire, etc.
        .
        The hydrogen could not be much above atmospheric pressure as the super thin wall could not withstand it. Especially superheated to 1500C.
        .
        So it may appear to be a complete departure from the standard ecat and single wire such as Celani uses. Rossi would still say hydrogen is involved (loading the wire) but not in the sense the old ecat designs were, where a hydrogen gas was released by the lithium hydride into the reactor itself.
        .
        This would also possibly explain the light producing element. There is no reactor, simply a wire. Thus the heat generation produces incandescence. Incandescence does not explain the blue light, but does explain how light is seen at all. It is unlikely that light could escape a “tube reactor” unless using something like quartz, which then would not withstand the temperature or pressue.
        .
        Rossi has stated several times in the past that his “current patent / patent applications” cover the QuarkX. However, it would be difficult to see this if the QuarkX has become a single wire. ?
        .
        So in my opinion, the 1mm is either a typo or Rossi has went to a wire configuration which would explain some details. However, this would also present some engineering issues in ramping up to a large capacity system. It would be difficult to get 1 MW of heat from 1mm wire, even if it was extremely long. And if long, then the heat exchange would be difficult. Possibly not impossible, but difficult.
        .
        Of course this is all speculation based on nothing but a grainy, blue image and some posts of values ranging 0 -100%.

        • artefact

          “Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 10:12 AM
          Robert Dorr:
          Thank you.
          The negotitions in Sweden are on course.
          Yes, I confirm the dimensions. Not the results, that must be verified.
          Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • psi2u2

      Lol. The next iteration will produce heat, light, and electricity in variable proportions powered by the e-rabbits inside.

    • Roger Roger

      QuarkX 2.0 will make anime real

      You read it here first

  • clovis ray

    The manufacturing will be made also in the USA by Leonardo Corporation.
    ABB is the manufacturer of the robotized lines we have chosen.
    Warm Regards
    A.R.
    Congrate big move, , small step for man, giant leap for mankind,

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Overall, the numbers seem mutually consistent. Some details:

    At 1500C surface temperature, Stefan-Boltzmann radiation power from 30mm long and 1mm diameter tube would be 53W, assuming emissivity 1.0. Rossi says temperature is above 1500C. With emissivity 0.7, for example, temperature 2000C gives 100W.

    The object must be connected from one or both ends by some electric wires. Because the device is so small, heat conduction along those wires might be non-negligible regarding heat budget. If so, then the temperature need not be so much above 1500C to give 100W output.

    There is also heat transfer by convection in air, but at so high temperature one can almost neglect it in comparison to radiation.

    The above concerns thermal greybody radiation. Blue light is probably non-thermal in origin and its existence hints that the wall of the tube is transparent or translucent. Then, blue photons transfer energy directly, without heating up the device. Roughly speaking, one should subtract the blue photon power from the 100W to get heat output that must be matched with Stefan-Boltzmann plus heat conduction. Thus, the blue light is another mechanism by which the energy equation can hold without temperature being that much higher than 1500C.

    Commercially, I can understand that Rossi is motivated to improve the electric fraction from 10% to 20%. In electric car, for example, producing waste heat which is five times the electric power could be tolerable so that could enable a low-cost car without other moving parts except fan cooler, but ten times waste heat starts to be problematic in that regard.

    • Ged

      Thank you for your insights, Pekka.

      • psi2u2

        Yes indeed.

    • tlp

      28.6 so just after two weeks BLP is demoing their version of a hot and bright reactor, SunCell. It should be hotter and much bigger, otherwise quite similar, using hydrogen as a fuel.
      And similar discussion was there, if only 40% electricity and 60% (waste) heat, how to get rid of that heat in a car. I think that should be doable, but 90% might be more difficult.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Is the entire reactor supposed to be 1mm X 30mm, or is that only the fuel inside it?
    It seems from the description that the reactor is actually significantly larger and the dimensions given are the size of the fuel inside the reactor.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Is the entire reactor supposed to be 1mm X 30mm, or is that only the fuel inside it?
    It seems from the description that the reactor is actually significantly larger and the dimensions given are the size of the fuel inside the reactor.

  • Bob Matulis

    Given all the disclaimers I am not sure what all the excitement is about. If I understand correctly these are unsubstantiated claims. I will do happy dance if true but as of now seems to be a big “IF”.

    • It would be a little tedious if all speculation needed to be preceded by a statement such as “If we accept Rossi’s claims at face value, then…” However it is implicit I think, especially so when the claims are heavily qualified as in this case.

  • Bob Matulis

    Given all the disclaimers I am not sure what all the excitement is about. If I understand correctly these are unsubstantiated claims. I will do happy dance if true but as of now seems to be a big “IF”.

    • It would be a little tedious if all speculation needed to be preceded by a statement such as “If we accept Rossi’s claims at face value, then…” However it is implicit I think, especially so when the claims are heavily qualified as in this case.

  • The simpelst evidence Rossi could give now is:

    – start the reactor
    – when it starts to produce electricity, loop this electric energy back to the control and heating system
    – unplug the wall socket plug
    – let it run for hours/days producing steam in full self sustain.

    This would convince everyone without knowing at least a bit how it works.

    Why is Rossi not doing this?

    • US_Citizen71

      How do you know he hasn’t? Just because he hasn’t shown it to the peanut gallery doesn’t mean it hasn’t been done.

      • Maybe someone should ask Rossi whether he’s feeding back the electric energy to the reactor system, so it could run standalone.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I believe that was mentioned as being part of the protocol prior to the test having actually been done. Read the earlier articles in the last week or two, and you should find a disconnected test mentioned. .

          • This would be absolutely nice!

            But I only believe it if one of his partners announces it.

      • Chapman

        he he he… he said peanut gallery! so much nicer than me!

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Why hide the device that would save the world?

        People interested in seeing mankind saved from pollution and annihilation are not members of a peanut gallery.

        • US_Citizen71

          The all patents may not be filed yet. Why give competitors information to work with? Patent protection will help the roll out. Would you invest in a company that didn’t have patent protection for a simple to duplicate device?

          • Fibber McGourlick

            A demonstration need not reveal anything other than the fact that the device works.

          • US_Citizen71

            And then we will be back to the hidden wires, beamed energy, etc., etc….controversy. The rally for pathoskeptics when Rossi was doing demonstrations use to be ‘Where is the patent?’ now that he has a patent the new rally cry is ‘Where is the demonstration?’. A bit circular don’t you think? He just needs to build them and get them into the market place.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      Exactly. If he did this kind of demonstration successfully, he would immediately own the world. In a week’s time, he’d be the most famous person in history (soon to be the wealthiest), and the world would be on the brink of a very rapid transformation into a new Eden. Why doesn’t he do it? The answer must be that there’s still something wrong with the device. Control? Stability? Danger? Who knows? I’m still hoping it’ll work out, of course. And soon.

      • Barbierir

        Why should Rossi convince anyone outside his partners? Of course I’d like it but the reality is that us in the peanut gallery don’t matter. If it wasn’t for prof. Focardi we would not have known anything at all

        • Zeddicus23

          Another interesting question to ask Rossi is whether or not the QuarkX has self-sustain mode. I’m guessing that, as suggested by Gerard McEk regarding an input of very short current pulses, the only “self-sustained” mode in this case corresponds to when the pulses are “off”, so over longer periods of time the average power is essentially constant, e.g. there is no self-sustained mode. Of course, this is pure speculation.

          • Zeddicus23

            As an obvious follow-up to my previous commment, I speculate that the property of “no long-term self-sustained mode” (if that is correct) is related to the small “form-factor”. The size of this thing also gives replicators an easier target in terms of materials etc. although the internal structure may be complex (?) In some ways, this does sound similar to Celani’s constantan wires, which apparently also produce a dc voltage.

          • My main takeaways from this announcement:

            * The COP levels and the three different kinds of energy out make this oh so easy to verify in terms of over-unity. Middle school students could verify this in an afternoon lab class. If a credible entity eventually goes public with claims that they have validated the QuarkX, then we have something very close to definitive proof.

            * That said, no corroboration from the new prospective partner yet, which is disappointing. Rossi usually doesn’t lie about joint tests and partners, but we can’t say for sure until somebody pipes up.

            * While its use for verification is somewhat disappointing, the performance described by the report is anything but. This thing, if real, will transform everything that has anything to do with energy — which is everything in one way or another. While it may take decades, we are, if this thing is real, on the verge of an era of abundance and things in science fiction becoming commonplace. Wow.

            * Visible wavelength radiation provided Rossi a clue to the physics. Sounds like he and his partners are converging — finally — on a solid understanding of not just the what, but the why.

            * Still some ways away from mass manufacturing. More tests and probably they want to nail down the theoretic underpinnings first.

          • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

            Could someone ask this to Rossi.

            When do you think you will start to commercialize the Quark X?

            Are you still selling the plants like the one used for the 1 Year test?
            If yes, did the problem with IH affect to the current commercialization status?

            Thanks.

          • Gerard McEk

            He hopes this year. There is still some development that needs to be done.

          • Zephir

            I seriously doubt it: the bluish glowing reactor would look way too much sci-fi for every governmental regulator.

          • Stephen

            I guess the spectra of the Balmer Series emissions if any could give huge amount of information about the process occurring and the changes in composition.

            Interestingly though I think the blue halo is from out side the hole? Which seems to imply some stimulation of the air surrounding the device or perhaps some short range effects resulting in photons from particle emissions out side the device.

            Still I guess the specta will give a lot of information about the process and what particles are involved if relevant.

            If a device can be released soon along with a good accompanying theory that will be amazing and hard for anyone to deny.

          • Gerard McEk

            Rossi is very silent about his new partner. I hope things are well. This is where this test was all about.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Gerard,

            We didn’t learn of IH till the ink was dry for 2 years.

          • akupaku

            I think the electricity to heat ratio is too low for many purposes, I am thinking of electric cars or smaller electric appliances, even mobile phones. It would be difficult to get rid of the unusable heat. But maybe the ratio can be improved with more research and technical refinements. And some of the light can be converted to electricity too. Can’t wait to have a QuarkX battery replacement to my laptop and mobile phone, no more charging every day.

          • Ged

            Might do better as a portable charger due to that waste heat.

          • akupaku

            Sure, would feel scared to have a mobile phone in my pocket knowing there is a nuclear reactor inside running over 1500 C, lol.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Akupaku,

            Forget the 1500C. Issue is how many watts of waste heat need to be radiated.

            If we can get say 25% with good solar tech & your phone needs 1Wh, then we drop input watts so output is 4W and then need to get rid of 3W of waste heat, leaving 1W for your phone.

          • gerald

            I’m thinking agriculture buildings. Light and heat, use the electricity on leds with a usable wavelength.

          • akupaku

            Sure, greenhouses sound like an ideal application, bringing food production capabilities to places where it is now not economical or feasible.

          • giovanniontheweb

            it depends, temperature doesn’t necessarily mean heat, it depends if the process can work without exhausting heat, if it can it is only matter of shielding

          • Hador_NYC

            there are several heat engines on teh market. Cyclone power has one. This seems like a natural fit to me.

          • DrD

            Actually, I suspect that the waste heat in conventional cars is very similar. It’s rejected mostly through the exhaust and radiator.
            The other suggestions made below will all help.

      • Ged

        He has previously said it is not possible due to safety reasons. It would be hard to control the reaction as it would be like a short circuit on a battery as it burned through the fuel. Could very well lead to melt down and reactor destruction.

        • Axil Axil

          Andrea Rossi

          June 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM

          Vitaly and Irina Uzikov:

          Thank you, very kind: from your experience of nuclear scientists of the Russian School, your opinion is important.

          Did you notice the blue light ? If our measurement also related to it will be confirmed, the theoretical issue is close to be resolved.

          Warm Regards,

          A.R.
          =========================================

          How can blue light reveal the theory behind the LENR reaction? Does Dr, Cook have a blue light trick in this nuclear theory bag?

          Is Rossi coming around to Axil’s nanoplasmonic theory? Maybe Rossi has come over to see the black light of the hydrino theory.

          It sounds like Rossi is anxious to reveal his new ideas on LENR theory. Can someone pry that theory out of Rossi?

          • DrD

            Blue light could be Cherenkov (created in the surrounding cooling fluid) which would support the theory that it’s nuclear in origin but I don’t really believe that it can be that as why would he be enthusiastic about it proving something most of us take forgranted.
            Should we ask him? Probably won’t get an answer.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I don’t think that Rossi cares about convincing anyone, but his new partners, about the veracity of LENR. I think Rossi is now full steam ahead with producing product…or at least he should be.

    • Job001

      It is dangerous to self loop huge power density directly because slight instability causes such devices to self destruct. Thus UL and other agencies will not approve for permit such devices. Indirectly self looping with storage can be safely engineered.

      Convincing anyone is usually for LENR also a fools errand since those with extreme financial bias will not consider any proof, third party, or scientific theory to have any validity.

      Why? Simple; Utilities absolutely do not want nearly free energy with no monopoly power, cheap capital, and unsustainable monopoly profitability. Utilities profit by guaranteed ROC Return on Capital and a markup on costs. Try to get any profit by marking up near Zero costs! Huge capital costs keep out the little guy competition. It is clear cut economics, no mystery nor conspiracy is needed.

      Thus “Direct to market” is the only route and the one being pursued at this time, as far as I understand it. Research progress is making the potential marketable products more abundant and economically interesting.

  • The simpelst evidence Rossi could give now is:

    – start the reactor
    – when it starts to produce electricity, loop this electric energy back to the control and heating system
    – unplug the wall socket plug
    – let it run for hours/days producing steam in full self sustain.

    This would convince everyone without knowing at least a bit how it works.

    Why is Rossi not doing this?

    • US_Citizen71

      How do you know he hasn’t? Just because he hasn’t shown it to the peanut gallery doesn’t mean it hasn’t been done.

      • Maybe someone should ask Rossi whether he’s feeding back the electric energy to the reactor system, so it could run standalone.

        • Ophelia Rump

          I believe that was mentioned as being part of the protocol prior to the test having actually been done. Read the earlier articles in the last week or two, and you should find a disconnected test mentioned. .

          • This would be absolutely nice!

            But I only believe it if one of his partners announces it.

      • Or to put it another way – why the hell should he?

      • Chapman

        he he he… he said peanut gallery! so much nicer than me!

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Why hide the device that would save the world?

        People interested in seeing mankind saved from pollution and annihilation are not members of a peanut gallery.

        • US_Citizen71

          All patents may not be filed yet. Why give competitors information to work with? Patent protection will help the roll out. Would you invest in a company that didn’t have patent protection for a simple to duplicate device?

          • Fibber McGourlick

            A demonstration need not reveal anything other than the fact that the device works.

          • US_Citizen71

            And then we will be back to the hidden wires, beamed energy, etc., etc….controversy. The rally for pathoskeptics when Rossi was doing demonstrations use to be ‘Where is the patent?’ now that he has a patent the new rally cry is ‘Where is the demonstration?’. A bit circular don’t you think? He just needs to build them and get them into the market place.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      Exactly. If he did this kind of demonstration successfully, he would immediately own the world. In a week’s time, he’d be the most famous person in history (soon to be the wealthiest), and the world would be on the brink of a very rapid transformation into a new Eden. Why doesn’t he do it? The answer must be that there’s still something wrong with the device. Control? Stability? Danger? Who knows? I’m still hoping it’ll work out, of course. And soon.

      • Barbierir

        Why should Rossi convince anyone outside his partners? Of course I’d like it but the reality is that us in the peanut gallery don’t matter. If it wasn’t for prof. Focardi we would not have known anything at all

        • clovis ray

          you can’t know that. Dr.focardi played a part, that is true, but not all by himself, Dr.r , had a little to with it, in fact focardi only did the numbers, lol

      • Ged

        He has previously said it is not possible due to safety reasons. It would be hard to control the reaction as it would be like a short circuit on a battery as it burned through the fuel. Could very well lead to melt down and reactor destruction.

      • Pat

        Yes, and shortly thereafter it would give rise to the expenditure of billions of dollars and give rise to thousands of competitors that can outpace his R&D. After all these years, Rossi likely feels that he should at least get a crack at being able to cash in on the work. A working QX distributed to the world will have the same effect – just that Rossi will have a shot at selling something in compensation for years of work.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I don’t think that Rossi cares about convincing anyone, but his new partners, about the veracity of LENR. I think Rossi is now full steam ahead with producing product…or at least he should be.

    • Job001

      It is dangerous to self loop huge power density directly because slight instability causes such devices to self destruct. Thus UL and other agencies will not approve for permit such devices. Indirectly self looping with storage can be safely engineered.

      Convincing anyone is usually for LENR also a fools errand since those with extreme financial bias will not consider any proof, third party, or scientific theory to have any validity.

      Why? Simple; Utilities absolutely do not want nearly free energy with no monopoly power, cheap capital, and unsustainable monopoly profitability. Utilities profit by guaranteed ROC Return on Capital and a markup on costs. Try to get any profit by marking up near Zero costs! Huge capital costs keep out the little guy competition. It is clear cut economics, no mystery nor conspiracy is needed.

      Thus “Direct to market” is the only route and the one being pursued at this time, as far as I understand it. Research progress is making the potential marketable products more abundant and economically interesting.

  • Jean the Baptist

    Non ho capito, vendono l’aggeggio? O siamo ancora si test fatti in casa, ma di questi sento parlare da 4 anni!! Spero che gli italiani non si debbano vergognare del filosofo Rossi ma che abbia successo. Ormai sono pessimista

    • Chapman

      I can’t understand! That is some of the worst French I ever read!

      • MikeP

        Either a /sarc or you don’t realize it’s Italian (not generally known as a dialect of French 🙂 )

        • Chapman

          Well, that explains a lot!!

          I am no cunning linguist, but I thought it was French, and when I tried to translate it with BabelFish all I got was the confusing string: “Summers Eve”, a reference to fishing off the back of a slow boat, “solitude”, “boredom”, “Diarrhea”, and “Fiesta” – though I thought that was spanish…

          Anyway, the only meaning I could derive read something like, “Hi, I’m a douchebag Troll. I have no friends, and no better way of amusing myself than to log in here and crap all over your party!”

          Knowing it was really Italian is a relief, cause I thought French was the language of Love, but I suspect the true meaning of the message would be the same no matter what language was chosen…

        • Chapman

          Well, that explains a lot!!

          I am no cunning linguist, but I thought it was French, and when I tried to translate it with BabelFish all I got was the confusing string: “Summers Eve”, a reference to fishing off the back of a slow boat, “solitude”, “boredom”, “Diarrhea”, and “Fiesta” – though I thought that was spanish…

          Anyway, the only meaning I could derive read something like, “Hi, I’m a douchebag Troll. I have no friends, and no better way of amusing myself than to log in here and crap all over your party!”

          Knowing it was really Italian is a relief, cause I thought French was the language of Love, but I suspect the true meaning of the message would be the same no matter what language was chosen…

    • psi2u2

      This sort of Italian language attack on Rossi is a cute stunt but what is your theory about the international breakout of LENR research and the more general rush to commercialization of the technology?

      Is that also a figment of Rossi’s imagination?

      If not, how do you assess the relationship between the wider research evidence that LENR is a real and potent new force in nature, one that create transmutations and other results highly anomalous to conventional assumptions of physics, and Rossi’s apparent success as a leader in the field?

  • Chapman

    The only thing I see here that disappoints me is the negativity of some of the posters!

    Skeptical, reserved, conservative – I get. But negativity and derision? Why?

    Rossi has simply demonstrated that the reaction can be maintained while the form factor is greatly reduced. It is confirmation, rather than a great earth-shaking discovery, I admit that. But it is PROGRESS and a step closer to manufacturable tech.

    But some folks, well…. you come off like the EMO who shows up at a birthday party all dressed in black and sulking about “another year gone, 365 days closer to the grave”. I am going to start referring to you all as EEYORES!

  • Chapman

    The only thing I see here that disappoints me is the negativity of some of the posters!

    Skeptical, reserved, conservative – I get. But negativity and derision? Why?

    Rossi has simply demonstrated that the reaction can be maintained while the form factor is greatly reduced. It is confirmation, rather than a great earth-shaking discovery, I admit that. But it is PROGRESS and a step closer to manufacturable tech.

    But some folks, well…. you come off like the EMO who shows up at a birthday party all dressed in black and sulking about “another year gone, 365 days closer to the grave”. I am going to start referring to you all as EEYORES!

  • Zeddicus23

    The dimensions of the QuarkX suggest that the LENRs are primarily a surface effect. By minimizing the size of the “device” as well as its thickness, the surface area is maximized while ionizing particles such as electrons, protons, or alpha particles can penetrate the “skin” and be “used” to generate light or a d.c. voltage at the surface.

    • An astute observation.

      • psi2u2

        Indeed, and one backed up by the experimental history, from what I have read.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    Frank Acland June 14, 2016 at 8:53 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    Thank you for sharing your internal test results — very interesting.
    Some questions if you don’t mind:
    1. Are the energy input/output numbers exact, or rounded? It would seem unusual to me for it to be a COP of exactly 200. Something like COP 198 or 203 would seem to be more probable.
    2. Did your partner in the test take their own measurements, and if so were they similar to what you report?
    3. How long have these QuarkX modules operated providing these results consistently?
    4. You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection?
    5. How long does it take to make a QuarkX reactor these days?
    6. Can you tell us who the new partner is? If not, can you say when they will be made known?
    Many thanks, Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 10:04 AM
    Frank Acland:
    Very important your question 1:
    1- the COP numbers are rounded, because the COP is not number, it is an integral. Therefore to give the exact numbers I should have given many numbers in a frame of reference where xs are the values of time and ys are the values of COP. To make it short I rounded the average.
    2- yes
    3- about 100 hours of effective average
    4- to provide protection not just to the eyes
    5- n.a.
    6- what importance has the name of the Partner ? What is important is that we make a product, not the names listed in the ownership of Leonardo Corporation. When and if our Partner will deem opportune to appear ( if ever) he will do. If he will never do, what is the problem ? Until we do not go public there is no reason at all to communicate anything of the subject. I really do not understand this fever to know who is the Partner, while I totally sympathyze with the fever for the product. The only guy that have good reasons to know who our allies are is our foe, and this is the reason why I do not think it is opportune to disclose our artillery.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • 4 implies some potentially harmful radiation that is shielded by the tube. It could be at a low level but still be undesirable.

      • Zeddicus23

        I agree.

        • Perhaps the blue glow is Cherenkov radiation after all.

          • DrD

            Interesting thought. I suppose it’s possible despite the short distance.

          • psi2u2

            For those like myself unfamiliar with the ter Cherenkov radiation, here is wiki on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

          • Engineer48

            Guys,

            Rossi said the QuarkX reactor rod was inside a heat exchanger, which means there was some sort of fluid flowing past it. Also means the hole was also a window looking inside the fluid filled heat exchanger.

            Just might be 1500C blackbody radiation from the rod that is mixed with Cherenkov radiation from the fluid and sealing window?

          • DrD

            Exactly, the fluid explains how we get Cherenkov radiation.

          • MasterBlaster7

            I was thinking the same thing about Cherenkov radiation. Especially, since it is stated by Rossi that the blue light helped explain theory.

    • regarding 6.): It is important because we don’t know whether we could trust Rossi. But when a big name is in the game we could expect very skilled scientists working on it, reporting back to the CEO and management with the target to get a very valueable product/IP.

      When this big name says that they want to invest or help to bring it to market, this would change everything.

      But we just saw how a “big name” just declined to work with Rossi.

      • Zeddicus23

        ? You seem to be trying conclusions based on no information.

        • It wouldn’t be a conclusion, but a very strong lift in credibility for Rossi.

          • If he is working on a product with a new partner, why would he need external credibility?

          • Rossi wouldn’t need it.

            But we could need it.

            We made a big contribution to promote and spread Rossi’s ideas.

          • Roger Roger

            I feel you, but hey, look at it this way: there’s a consensus that a new energy source will be available in 5-10 years, also that the scientific paradigm is about to shift
            This new energy source will most probably be LENR (and probably new only for civilians 😉 ), there are many teams working on it.
            If it’s not Rossi, it will be Mills, or Holmlid or etc etc
            It can’t be undone. No need to get confirmation from Rossi that he has the goods. The goods are there anyway.
            (plus he might still be a false prophet hired to try and destroy the field, or the best con artist ever)

            If you don’t feel at ease because you’ve been pushing fringe ideas and need a clear victory, simply ridicule the dimwitted trolls hired by the remnants of a lost era! You’ll find a lot on lenr-forum, and it warms the heart to see how desesperate they are now
            I suspect they are laying siege there because there is actual scientific discussion going on, that needs to be filibustered

          • psi2u2

            Yes, the larger context lends great support to Rossi’s credibility. Unless this is a mass hallucination by electrochemists the world over, it may be prudent to continue to extend some indulgence towards Rossi’s desire for certain types of confidentiality. This is certainly not investment advice – as Rossi himself has said many times, the technology is too new to risk your retirement savings on – but as a matter of being participant-observers of contemporary science history.

          • Ged

            Well, we aren’t paying anything or helping in any way but in our little niches, so I dunno. We care rather superfluous to the business side of things. Hopefully you could post your argument to Rossi, or the Partner will see it and say something.

            On the otherhand… Rossi did inadvertently drop a hint on where to look or at least what to watch to catch who the partner is.

          • DrD

            Hi Ged,
            I think I missed that. Can you share it?

          • Gerard McEk

            I accept the reason AR gives. The partnering company could be pulled into the IH/AR trial and they surely do not want that. But maybe we will fund out in due time, just as happend with IH?

      • SD

        Of course it is important to us, and it’s strange that Rossi doesn’t realize that.

        • psi2u2

          He may have his own reasons for not revealing it.

      • Steve Savage

        I agree with Rossi, Trust from his supporters or the lack of trust from the skeptics, is not and should not be a concern of his. He is busy working to refine his knowledge and make products possible. I do not understand why some are so impatient. He is working with things never seen before, it can’t be easy. He is working against opportunists who seek to steal or derail his work, he must be careful and smart. That he tells us anything at all is a testament to his ideals.

    • psi2u2

      ‘the COP numbers are rounded, because the COP is not number, it is an integral. Therefore to give the exact numbers I should have given many numbers in a frame of reference where xs are the values of time and ys are the values of COP. To make it short I rounded the average.’

      This sounds like the Rossi many of us really respect, since these circumstances many have been obvious to some but were not to the less technical members of the audience like myself. Explained, it makes perfect sense that of course the number would be rounded. Chalk one up again to Frank for knowing what questions to ask and for Dr. R. for such a clear answer.

    • Buck

      For me, the answer to Q2 holds great significance.

      If Rossi were lying about the similarity of the measured results, then the unknown partner would simply recognize Rossi to be a liar, making the relationship problematic.

      There is greater nuance if one presumes either an 80-90% versus 10-20% difference. I see Rossi as an assertive competitor who held close the knowledge of the QuarkX in the R&D phase for a reason prompted by IH/Darden apparent behavior. And, I see the assertion in Rossi’s legal filings of COP=50 in the ERV report as substantially true. These two opinions push me towards the truth of COP=200 and that the possible difference between Rossi’s and the Partner’s measurements being no more than the 10-20% range, which certainly could be much less, say 2-5%.

      I also hold as being very probable the hypothesis of an ABB scale company as being the partner. And, I hold ABB as having the inside track because of Rossi’s repeated statements about using ABB for the automation of his factory.

      As a result, my optimism has grown.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    Frank Acland June 14, 2016 at 8:53 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    Thank you for sharing your internal test results — very interesting.
    Some questions if you don’t mind:
    1. Are the energy input/output numbers exact, or rounded? It would seem unusual to me for it to be a COP of exactly 200. Something like COP 198 or 203 would seem to be more probable.
    2. Did your partner in the test take their own measurements, and if so were they similar to what you report?
    3. How long have these QuarkX modules operated providing these results consistently?
    4. You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection?
    5. How long does it take to make a QuarkX reactor these days?
    6. Can you tell us who the new partner is? If not, can you say when they will be made known?
    Many thanks, Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 10:04 AM
    Frank Acland:
    Very important your question 1:
    1- the COP numbers are rounded, because the COP is not number, it is an integral. Therefore to give the exact numbers I should have given many numbers in a frame of reference where xs are the values of time and ys are the values of COP. To make it short I rounded the average.
    2- yes
    3- about 100 hours of effective average
    4- to provide protection not just to the eyes
    5- n.a.
    6- what importance has the name of the Partner ? What is important is that we make a product, not the names listed in the ownership of Leonardo Corporation. When and if our Partner will deem opportune to appear ( if ever) he will do. If he will never do, what is the problem ? Until we do not go public there is no reason at all to communicate anything of the subject. I really do not understand this fever to know who is the Partner, while I totally sympathyze with the fever for the product. The only guy that have good reasons to know who our allies are is our foe, and this is the reason why I do not think it is opportune to disclose our artillery.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • 4 implies some potentially harmful radiation that is shielded by the (tungsten?) tube. It could be at a low level but still be undesirable.

      • Zeddicus23

        I agree.

        • Perhaps the blue glow is Cherenkov radiation after all.

          • DrD

            Interesting thought. I suppose it’s possible despite the short distance.

          • psi2u2

            For those like myself unfamiliar with the ter Cherenkov radiation, here is wiki on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

          • Engineer48

            Guys,

            Rossi said the QuarkX reactor rod was inside a heat exchanger, which means there was some sort of fluid flowing past it. Also means the hole was also a window looking inside the fluid filled heat exchanger.

            Just might be 1500C blackbody radiation from the rod that is mixed with Cherenkov radiation from the fluid and sealing window?

            BTW Cherenkov radiation can occur inside the eye.

          • Bob Cook

            The thing that goes along with Cherenkov radiation is the presence of a charged particle with a velocity greater that C in a typically water cooling a fission reactor fuel element.

            However, it can occur in any substance and could be changed in its characteristics by changing the medium. Thus, Rossi may be altering the cooling fluid to test the theory. Observation could tell a lot about the maximum velocity of the charged particles, and hence, the reaction that produces the respective particles.

            The cooling fluid may act as an electric insulator between the cathode (external metallic containment outside the coolant) and the reactor wire itself–the anode. This arrangement assumes that the energetic particles being produced are negatively charged–maybe electrons or negative muons.

            This model seems to be consistent with the production of direct electrical energy, the blue light (and x-rays) as well as heat.

            The annular space between the cathode and the anode (reactor) could be varied to regulate the incident energy of the negative particles on the cathode and the effective voltage being produced to drive the external electric circuit.

            FRC

          • DrD

            Exactly, the fluid explains how we get Cherenkov radiation.

          • MasterBlaster7

            I was thinking the same thing about Cherenkov radiation. Especially, since it is stated by Rossi that the blue light helped explain theory.

    • regarding 6.): It is important because we don’t know whether we could trust Rossi.

      When a big name is in the game we could expect very skilled scientists working on it, reporting back to the CEO and management with the target to find out if this is a very valuable product/IP.

      When this big name says that they want to invest or help to bring it to market, this would change everything.

      But we just saw how a “big name” just declined to work with Rossi. So names are more important than some 0-100% numbers…

      • Zeddicus23

        ? You seem to be trying conclusions based on no information.

        • It wouldn’t be a conclusion, but a very strong lift in credibility for Rossi.

          • If he is working on a product with a new partner, why would he need external credibility?

          • Rossi wouldn’t need it.

            But we could need it.

            We made a big contribution to promote and spread Rossi’s ideas.

          • Roger Roger

            I feel you, but hey, look at it this way: there’s a consensus that a new energy source will be available in 5-10 years, also that the scientific paradigm is about to shift
            This new energy source will most probably be LENR (and probably new only for civilians 😉 ), there are many teams working on it.
            If it’s not Rossi, it will be Mills, or Holmlid or etc etc
            It can’t be undone. No need to get confirmation from Rossi that he has the goods. The goods are there anyway.
            (plus he might still be a false prophet hired to try and destroy the field, or the best con artist ever)

            If you don’t feel at ease because you’ve been pushing fringe ideas and need a clear victory, simply ridicule the dimwitted trolls hired by the remnants of a lost era! You’ll find a lot on lenr-forum, and it warms the heart to see how desesperate they are now
            I suspect they are laying siege there because there is actual scientific discussion going on, that needs to be filibustered

          • psi2u2

            Yes, the larger context lends great support to Rossi’s credibility. Unless this is a mass hallucination by electrochemists the world over, it may be prudent to continue to extend some indulgence towards Rossi’s desire for certain types of confidentiality. This is certainly not investment advice – as Rossi himself has said many times, the technology is too new to risk your retirement savings on – but as a matter of being participant-observers of contemporary science history.

          • Ged

            Well, we aren’t paying anything or helping in any way but in our little niches, so I dunno. We are rather superfluous to the business side of things. Hopefully you could post your argument to Rossi, or the Partner will see it and say something.

            On the otherhand… Rossi did inadvertently drop a hint on where to look or at least what to watch to catch who the partner is.

          • DrD

            Hi Ged,
            I think I missed that. Can you share it?

          • Gerard McEk

            I accept the reason AR gives. The partnering company could be pulled into the IH/AR trial and they surely do not want that. But maybe we will fund out in due time, just as happend with IH?

      • SD

        Of course it is important to us, and it’s strange that Rossi doesn’t realize that.

        • psi2u2

          He may have his own reasons for not revealing it.

      • Steve Savage

        I agree with Rossi, Trust from his supporters or the lack of trust from the skeptics, is not and should not be a concern of his. He is busy working to refine his knowledge and make products possible. I do not understand why some are so impatient. He is working with things never seen before, it can’t be easy. He is working against opportunists who seek to steal or derail his work, he must be careful and smart. That he tells us anything at all is a testament to his ideals.

    • psi2u2

      ‘the COP numbers are rounded, because the COP is not number, it is an integral. Therefore to give the exact numbers I should have given many numbers in a frame of reference where xs are the values of time and ys are the values of COP. To make it short I rounded the average.’

      This sounds like the Rossi many of us really respect, since these circumstances many have been obvious to some but were not to the less technical members of the audience like myself. Explained, it makes perfect sense that of course the number would be rounded. Chalk one up again to Frank for knowing what questions to ask and for Dr. R. for such a clear answer.

    • Buck

      For me, the answer to Q2 holds great significance.

      If Rossi were lying about the similarity of the measured results, then the unknown partner would simply recognize Rossi to be a liar, making the relationship problematic.

      There is greater nuance if one presumes either an 80-90% versus 10-20% difference. I see Rossi as an assertive competitor who held close the knowledge of the QuarkX in the R&D phase for a reason prompted by IH/Darden apparent behavior. And, I see the assertion in Rossi’s legal filings of COP=50 in the ERV report as substantially true. In addition, Rossi has repeatedly stated that the QuarkX has higher COP potential relative to the ‘old’ ECat in the 1-Year test. These opinions push me towards the truth of COP=200 and that the possible difference between Rossi’s and the Partner’s measurements being nearer to the 10-20% range, which certainly could be much less, say 2-5%.

      I also hold as being very probable the hypothesis of an ABB scale company as being the partner. And, I hold ABB as having the inside track because of Rossi’s repeated statements about using ABB for the automation of his factory.

      And if it wasn’t ABB before . . . now with a COP=200, they should be very focused upon enhancing the opportunity for partnership with Rossi . . . The main reason for this is the following fact: in business, it is better to cannibalize your own business rather than letting a competitor. Technology with a COP=200 simply “destroys” ABB’s existing business model

      As a result, my optimism has grown.

  • Zeddicus23

    Given the high temperature, I’m guessing that the primary material (other than H) might be Ti rather than Ni. Perhaps someone could ask Rossi this question on his blog.

    • Ecco

      Several months ago he answered to another person that he uses titanium in his QuarkX.
      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=100#comment-1175780

      • Ted-Z

        I think that it is Tungsten rather than Titanium. Titanium could have been a distraction/misleading from Rossi. Tungsten’s melting point is 3422 deg. C.

        • Ecco

          I’m not trying to find justifications for what Rossi writes on the JONP. There are valid reasons for using titanium as well.

    • SD

      Maybe Tungsten too?

    • psi2u2

      Ok, you were correct – see Ecco below. Now do tell. Why did you think that would be an important ingredient?

      • Zeddicus23

        Because of the higher melting temperature of Ti versus Ni (1668 C versus 1455 C) and also because Ti is listed as a possible “transition metal” alternative to Ni in many LENR patent applications. Also, I believe that me356 (or someone else) may have achieved some interesting results recently using Ti.

        • Ecco

          There are reports of neutron emission with titanium deuteride.

          Metallic titanium is capable of absorbing significantly more hydrogen than Nickel near atmospheric pressure, and expands considerably in the process (~18% volume, more than palladium). It’s been suggested (for example by Edmund Storms) that lattice deformation/stress-relief upon hydrogen loading-deloading can be the origin of LENR anomalies, so this property makes it more interesting than nickel in my opinion.

          Besides the high melting point, titanium oxide (TiO2) if used might have the advantage of very good stability against reduction in hydrogen.

          • Zeddicus23

            Ecco,
            Your point about loading-deloading is an interesting one. Up until now I had always assumed that the complicated degassing procedure was just to get rid of impurities – and I assume that this is still true – but this suggests that it also assists in the formation of local NAEs.

          • Ecco

            Actually oxide reduction might be capable of producing the needed NAE as well. This would be very hard with TiO2, but Nickel oxide (NiO) can be easily reduced in a hydrogen atmosphere especially at high temperature, and the process can be possibly exploited for creating a more favorable environment to LENR. According to the following paper, if the process is performed at temperatures > 900°C, it leaves a 3d-porous structure (with pore size < 10 nm) in a matter of seconds, completely removing the oxides. Reduction at lower temperatures and/or performed slowly doesn't cause this and doesn't complete.

            Perhaps after a few full oxidation-reduction cycles performed this way something interesting could happen. I tried suggesting doing this during previous MFMP GlowStick experiments, with no luck:

            http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jpcc.5b04313

  • Zeddicus23

    Given the high temperature, I’m guessing that the primary material (other than H) might be Ti rather than Ni. Perhaps someone could ask Rossi this question on his blog.

    • Ecco

      Several months ago he answered to another person that he uses titanium in his QuarkX.
      http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=100#comment-1175780

      • Ted-Z

        I think that it is Tungsten rather than Titanium. Titanium could have been a distraction/misleading from Rossi. Tungsten’s melting point is 3422 deg. C.

        • Ecco

          I’m not trying to find justifications for what Rossi writes on the JONP. There are valid reasons for using titanium as well.

    • SD

      Maybe Tungsten too?

    • psi2u2

      Ok, you were correct – see Ecco below. Now do tell. Why did you think that would be an important ingredient?

      • Zeddicus23

        Because of the higher melting temperature of Ti versus Ni (1668 C versus 1455 C) and also because Ti is listed as a possible “transition metal” alternative to Ni in many LENR patent applications. Also, I believe that me356 (or someone else) may have achieved some interesting results recently using Ti.

        • Ecco

          There are reports of neutron emission with titanium deuteride.

          Metallic titanium is capable of absorbing significantly more hydrogen than Nickel near atmospheric pressure, and expands considerably in the process (~18% volume, more than palladium). It’s been suggested (for example by Edmund Storms) that lattice deformation/stress-relief upon hydrogen loading-deloading can be the origin of LENR anomalies, so this property makes it more interesting than nickel in my opinion.

          Besides the high melting point, titanium oxide (TiO2) if used might have the advantage of very good stability against reduction in hydrogen.

          • Zeddicus23

            Ecco,
            Your point about loading-deloading is an interesting one. Up until now I had always assumed that the complicated degassing procedure was just to get rid of impurities – and I assume that this is still true – but this suggests that it also assists in the formation of local NAEs.

          • Ecco

            Actually oxide reduction might be capable of producing the needed NAE as well. This would be very hard with TiO2, but Nickel oxide (NiO) can be easily reduced in a hydrogen atmosphere especially at high temperature, and the process can be possibly exploited for creating a more favorable environment to LENR. According to the following paper, if the process is performed at temperatures > 900°C, it leaves a 3d-porous structure (with pore size < 10 nm) in a matter of seconds, completely removing the oxides. Reduction at lower temperatures and/or performed slowly doesn't cause this and doesn't complete.

            Perhaps after a few full oxidation-reduction cycles performed this way something interesting could happen. I tried suggesting doing this during previous MFMP GlowStick experiments, with no luck:

            http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jpcc.5b04313

  • Zeddicus23

    The claims of tunability, e.g. the fraction of light versus electricity versus heat can be tuned, are very interesting. It would be interesting to know how this is done. Might it involve some sensitive dependence on the input power, or perhaps more likely on some associated “side-parameter” such as a dc voltage or electromagnetic stimulus, such as the frequency/amplitude of an oscillating field, or an applied magnetic field? Or is it something that cannot be changed on the fly, but can be different for different devices, by slightly changing their construction?

    The claim of a COP of 200 is amazing, and leave NO room for error. I see no way that an input of 0.5 W could lead to an object of this size (in contact with air and/or shielding and/or a heat bath) at 1500 C.

    • Gerard McEk

      I think that the QuarkX is being controlled with a current of a particular shape through the fuel. Very short pulses. The hight of the current may contol the output of light/heat. Resulting generated DC powers are take from the same wires. These generated powers should be taken off the control wires to get the system stable. I wonder if still heaters are required. I do no think so.

      • Zeddicus23

        This sounds interesting, and vey much like what Brillouin Energy is doing. Perhaps they, in addition to Mills’ Brilliant Light Power, are the true competition.

    • Zeddicus23

      I should add that the extremely high COP, as well as the COP of 10-20 for electrical power alone – if confirmed via a “3rd party” or an ERV – should convince even the hardest skeptics, since there is much less room for error in this case.

      • Zeddicus23

        Such a test would also satisfy the demand of skeptics for a short-term, small-scale test rather than a “fake” year-long 1 MW test.

      • psi2u2

        Let’s get the third party testing rolling, Dr. Rossi!

        • Not likely and not needed, IMO. He is rushing headlong toward industrialization now.

          What he needs for that are:
          * Finalization of product specs
          * Final prototype control, reliability and longevity testing
          * Safety certification

          My guess is that he will talk about signing an agreement with his new partner/customer and conducting a new test with them that must be successful before allowing the factory line to churn out QXs. They will be his guinea pigs for the first batch of QXs and they will start to design around them with their own prototypes for specific applications.

          Unfortunately this probably still means that we are 6 months or more from anything getting to market.

          But there should also be massive excitement on the part of the new partner. Hopefully some of that will leak out. Or maybe they will collectively decide to start preparing the market by publishing some research or allowing independent testing by universities.

          Or the government may step in and delay everything until the Saudis can sell off their oil assets next year.

      • DrD

        I doubt it. Even when I have my own i’ll bet theres still those who will deny it.

    • DrD

      It suggests to me that, once started, it could in theory run till fuel exhaustion without any further input (SSM) . In theory!

  • Zeddicus23

    The claims of tunability, e.g. the fraction of light versus electricity versus heat can be tuned, are very interesting. It would be interesting to know how this is done. Might it involve some sensitive dependence on the input power, or perhaps more likely on some associated “side-parameter” such as a dc voltage or electromagnetic stimulus, such as the frequency/amplitude of an oscillating field, or an applied magnetic field? Or is it something that cannot be changed on the fly, but can be different for different devices, by slightly changing their construction?

    The claim of a COP of 200 is amazing, and leave NO room for error. I see no way that an input of 0.5 W could lead to an object of this size (in contact with air and/or shielding and/or a heat bath) at 1500 C.

    • Gerard McEk

      I think that the QuarkX is being controlled with a current of a particular shape through the fuel. Very short pulses. The hight of the current may contol the output of light/heat. Resulting generated DC powers are take from the same wires. These generated powers should be taken off the control wires to get the system stable. I wonder if still heaters are required. I do no think so.

      • Zeddicus23

        This sounds interesting, and vey much like what Brillouin Energy is doing. Perhaps they, in addition to Mills’ Brilliant Light Power, are the true competition.

    • Zeddicus23

      I should add that the extremely high COP, as well as the COP of 10-20 for electrical power alone – if confirmed via a “3rd party” or an ERV – should convince even the hardest skeptics, since there is much less room for error in this case.

      • Zeddicus23

        Such a test would also satisfy the demand of skeptics for a short-term, small-scale test rather than a “fake” year-long 1 MW test.

      • psi2u2

        Let’s get the third party testing rolling, Dr. Rossi!

        • Not likely and not needed, IMO. He is rushing headlong toward industrialization now.

          What he needs for that are:
          * Finalization of product specs
          * Final prototype control, reliability and longevity testing
          * Safety certification

          My guess is that he will talk about signing an agreement with his new partner/customer and conducting a new test with them that must be successful before allowing the factory line to churn out QXs. They will be his guinea pigs for the first batch of QXs and they will start to design around them with their own prototypes for specific applications.

          Unfortunately this probably still means that we are 6 months or more from anything getting to market.

          But there should also be massive excitement on the part of the new partner. Hopefully some of that will leak out. Or maybe they will collectively decide to start preparing the market by publishing some research or allowing independent testing by universities.

          Or the government may step in and delay everything until the Saudis can sell off their oil assets next year.

      • DrD

        I doubt it. Even when I have my own i’ll bet theres still those who will deny it.

    • DrD

      It suggests to me that, once started, it could in theory run till fuel exhaustion without any further input (SSM) . In theory!

  • I just asked Rossi whether it is possible to feed the electric energy back to the system, to let it run standalone:

    Andrea Rossi
    June 14, 2016 at 10:26 AM

    Barty:
    No, it is not possible.
    Too bad for the hardest skeptics!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • “hardest skeptics” – who could he mean??

      • I said in my question, that he could convince the hardest skeptics this way.

      • georgehants

        Peter, you seem to be really enjoying yourself, well done, I am afraid that with my concern for what could be done now with Cold Fusion I am a little flat.
        Could I ask you the same question as I always do on these occasions, what does this mean for the transmutation angle, if anything.

        • Hi George. Wasting my time enjoyably anyway – I’m supposed to be writing an article about something else entirely but have barely produced half a page today. Oh well – I’m supposed to be ‘retired’.

          I deliberately try not to think about what could be happening right now if a few thousand people were simultaneously developing cold fusion all across the planet. Too much excitement is supposed not to be good at my age – something might give way.

          It seems highly likely that all ‘cold fusion’ processes will transmute some of the elements involved, but we don’t even know what the substrate is in the case of the the ‘quark x’. It could still be nickel, but in view of the apparently high temperatures involved it’s more likely to be tungsten I think. But whatever it is, the ‘fuel’ (hydrogen, lithium or whatever) is going to undergo isotopic and transmutational changes, although probably not to anything particularly useful.

          The GEC fusion-fission reactor looks more useful from this POV. http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/02/support-growing-for-us-nuclear-power-industry-bailout-nytimes-com/#comment-2714558733

          • Warthog

            “It could still be nickel, but in view of the apparently high
            temperatures involved it’s more likely to be tungsten I think (or
            Zeddicus23 suggests titanium).”

            I’m going to indulge in speculation here…..

            I think the “high temperature breakthrough” happened when Rossi implemented an internal tungsten tube to serve as a gamma shield in place of the external lead shield previously used.

            When that was done, he found that tungsten in direct contact with atomic hydrogen was itself a good LENR catalyst/host (as originally “almost” discovered by Langmuir), giving immediate access to drastically higher temperatures of operation.

          • I agree. That would have been during development of ‘hot cat’ or similar. I think serendipity, a very sharp eye and a high level of intuition have played a significant part in Rossi’s successes.

          • Ted-Z

            I think that Rossi is using porous Tungsten as an external “shell”, with a Nickel-alloy in the core. The core extends on one side and is connected to a conducting wire (perhaps solid Tungsten). The shell is connected to a conductor on the other side (some asymmetry is needed to cause a current of any kind to flow). A low-conductivity layer (a sort of ceramic) separates the core from the shell.
            ——————————
            This is only a guess, but it is difficult to imagine anything else, with the dimensions of 30 mm in length and the diameter of only 1 mm).

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            I think that the reported size is the inside diameter of the reaction chamber, rather than the outer dimensions of some kind of wire/tube.

          • Bob Greenyer

            But as I detail in my thoughts, it is entirely possible to achieve the whole reactor in a 1mm OD Saint Gobain sapphire capillary tube with a core surface modified platinum wire reaction matrix base.

          • Axil Axil

            Its not tungsten because tungsten would not produce a blue light. Tungsten produces a white light as in a incandescent bulb. The tube must be a translucent ceramic.

          • I don’t think Fabiani would have been quite so excited if the light was produced by simple incandescence.

          • Warthog

            Depends on what else is in there that can contribute different quantum transition levels in the visible. A pure tungsten system certainly would behave as you describe…but the system here is anything but “pure”.

          • DrD

            I think the suggestion by others that it’s Cherenkov radiation, throught the cooling fluid has merit.

          • Gerrit

            It means nothing to me

            This means nothing to me

            Oh, Andrea

          • Fully agree.

            This is not a “report”.
            It’s just another “Rossi said”. Believe it or not.

            The most important info, the name of the partner, which could give those claims a huge credibility, will maybe never been released. Diasspointing.

          • Gerrit is making a play on the lyrics for ‘Vienna’ by Midge Ure. Please don’t treat every comment as an opportunity to make your same negative point over and over – it gets a bit tedious.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Enola Gay
            You should have stayed at home yesterday
            Ah-ha words can’t describe
            The feeling and the way you lied

            These games you play
            They’re going to end in more than tears some day
            Ah-ha Enola Gay
            It shouldn’t ever have to end this way

            Enola Gay
            It shouldn’t ever have to end this way
            Ah-ha Enola Gay
            It shouldn’t fade in our dreams away

            Enola Gay
            Is Mother proud of Little Boy today
            Ah-ha this kiss you give
            It’s never ever going to fade away

          • US_Citizen71

            I don’t think the occasion is that somber, it might be that historic.

    • Ged

      Edit: ok, I see you editted in your question, thank you!

      • Whether it’s possible to use the produces electric energy to run the reactor in continuous self sustain mode.

    • Stephen

      I guess it could be due to a couple of reasons if he is talking about direct use.

      1. could be safety in case of failure perhaps an external current is needed for a controlled switch down with out thermal runaway.

      2. Could be if the current is used differently than it is produced. If it generates a constant or slowly evolving current say but uses bursts of high current now and then to stimulate the device.

      I wonder if these issues can be resolved somehow if the current is used to trickle charge a battery and/or capacitor which allows the energy to be used as required. Or if indepenant mains energy is required to guarantee its availability or due to required power response reasons for some reason?

      • Ged

        I know he has previously said no to this idea several times, even with the hotcat, due to safety concerns. Hopefully if this does become a real product, we could test these ideas and find out.

  • I just asked Rossi whether it is possible to feed the electric energy back to the system, to let it run standalone:

    Andrea Rossi
    June 14, 2016 at 10:26 AM

    Barty:
    No, it is not possible.
    Too bad for the hardest skeptics!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Chapman

      BRAVO Rossi!!!

    • “hardest skeptics” – who could he mean??

      • I wrote in my question, that he could convince the hardest skeptics this way.

      • georgehants

        Peter, you seem to be really enjoying yourself, well done, I am afraid that with my concern for what could be done now with Cold Fusion I am a little flat.
        Could I ask you the same question as I always do on these occasions, what does this mean for the transmutation angle, if anything.

        • Hi George. Wasting my time enjoyably anyway – I’m supposed to be writing an article about something else entirely but have barely produced half a page today. Oh well – I’m supposed to be ‘retired’.

          I deliberately try not to think about what could be happening right now if a few thousand people were simultaneously developing cold fusion all across the planet. Too much excitement is supposed not to be good at my age – something might give way.

          It seems highly likely that all ‘cold fusion’ processes will transmute some of the elements involved, but we don’t even know what the substrate is in the case of the the ‘quark x’. It could still be nickel, but in view of the apparently high temperatures involved it’s more likely to be tungsten I think (or Zeddicus23 suggests titanium). But whatever it is, the ‘fuel’ (hydrogen, lithium or whatever) is going to undergo isotopic and transmutational changes, although probably not to anything particularly useful.

          The GEC fusion-fission reactor looks more useful from this POV. http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/02/support-growing-for-us-nuclear-power-industry-bailout-nytimes-com/#comment-2714558733

          • Warthog

            “It could still be nickel, but in view of the apparently high
            temperatures involved it’s more likely to be tungsten I think (or Zeddicus23 suggests titanium).”

            I’m going to indulge in speculation here…..

            I think the “high temperature breakthrough” happened when Rossi implemented an internal tungsten tube to serve as a gamma shield in place of the external lead shield previously used.

            When that was done, he found that tungsten in direct contact with atomic hydrogen was itself a good LENR catalyst/host (as originally “almost” discovered by Langmuir), giving immediate access to drastically higher temperatures of operation.

          • I agree. That would have been during development of ‘hot cat’ or similar. I think serendipity, a very sharp eye and a high level of intuition have played a significant part in Rossi’s successes.

          • Ted-Z

            I think that Rossi is using porous Tungsten as an external “shell”, with a Nickel-alloy in the core. The core extends on one side and is connected to a conducting wire (perhaps solid Tungsten). The shell is connected to a conductor on the other side (some asymmetry is needed to cause a current of any kind to flow). A low-conductivity layer (a sort of ceramic) separates the core from the shell.
            ——————————
            This is only a guess, but it is difficult to imagine anything else, with the dimensions of 30 mm in length and the diameter of only 1 mm).

          • Axil Axil

            Its not tungsten because tungsten would not produce a blue light. Tungsten produces a white light as in a incandescent bulb. The tube must be a translucent ceramic.

          • I don’t think Fabiani would have been quite so excited if the light was produced by simple incandescence.

          • Warthog

            Depends on what else is in there that can contribute different quantum transition levels in the visible. A pure tungsten system certainly would behave as you describe…but the system here is anything but “pure”.

          • DrD

            I think the suggestion by others that it’s Cherenkov radiation, through the cooling fluid has merit.

    • Ged

      Edit: ok, I see you editted in your question, thank you!

      • Whether it’s possible to use the produces electric energy to run the reactor in continuous self sustain mode.

    • Stephen

      I guess it could be due to a couple of reasons if he is talking about direct use.

      1. could be safety in case of failure perhaps an external current is needed for a controlled switch down with out thermal runaway.

      2. Could be if the current is used differently than it is produced. If it generates a constant or slowly evolving current say but uses bursts of high current now and then to stimulate the device.

      I wonder if these issues can be resolved somehow if the current is used to trickle charge a battery and/or capacitor which allows the energy to be used as required. Or if indepenant mains energy is required to guarantee its availability or due to required power response reasons for some reason?

      • Ged

        I know he has previously said no to this idea several times, even with the hotcat, due to safety concerns. Hopefully if this does become a real product, we could test these ideas and find out.

  • Bob K

    I wonder how the negotiations of the Swedish factory are going?

  • MorganMck

    Interesting exchange on JONP:

    Vitaly and Irina Uzikov
    June 14, 2016 at 10:17 AM
    Andrea,
    Congratulations, we are very happy for you, again a fantastic result! We hope Quark X industrialisation will be very fast!
    Sincerely Yours,
    Vitaly and Irina Uzikov

    Andrea Rossi
    June 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM
    Vitaly and Irina Uzikov:
    Thank you, very kind: from your experience of nuclear scientists of the Russian School, your opinion is important.
    Did you notice the blue light? If our measurement also related to it will be confirmed, the theoretical issue is close to be resolved.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    So A.R. thinks there may be a theoretical breakthrough based on analysis of the light. Do any of our resident physicists have a clue as to the possibilities?

    • sam

      This truck driver hopes it is this.
      light at the end of the tunnel
      › signs of improvement in a situation that has been bad for a long time, or signs that a long and difficult piece of work is almost finished:

    • DrD

      Some have suggested Cherenkov radiation. It makes sense and carries implications. It can be an indication of nuclear reactions.
      To some of us it might not be a surprise.

  • psi2u2

    This sort of Italian language attack on Rossi is a cute stunt but what is your theory about the international breakout of LENR research and the more general rush to commercialization of the technology?

    Is that also a figment of Rossi’s imagination?

    If not, how do you assess the relationship between the wider research evidence that LENR is a real and potent new force in nature, one that create transmutations and other results highly anomalous to conventional assumptions of physics, and Rossi’s apparent success as a leader in the field?

  • Zeddicus23

    Another interesting question to ask Rossi is whether or not the QuarkX has self-sustain mode. I’m guessing that, as suggested by Gerard McEk regarding an input of very short current pulses, the only “self-sustained” mode in this case corresponds to when the pulses are “off”, so over longer periods of time the average power is essentially constant, e.g. there is no self-sustained mode. Of course, this is pure speculation.

    • Zeddicus23

      As an obvious follow-up to my previous commment, I speculate that the property of “no long-term self-sustained mode” (if that is correct) is related to the small “form-factor”. The size of this thing also gives replicators an easier target in terms of materials etc. although the internal structure may be complex (?) In some ways, this does sound similar to Celani’s constantan wires, which apparently also produce a dc voltage.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Where’s the data? Answers like 0 to 100% could be zero.

    There is no data in this “report”. It’s more of a riddle.

    The color is characterized as blue. Could it be Cherenkov radiation? Maybe, but there is insufficient data to tell us that it is not simply an arc-lamp running intermittently and combusting hydrogen.

    This “report” makes more questions than it answers.

    • Ged

      Just product specs.

  • Anon2012_2014

    Where’s the data? Answers like 0 to 100% could be zero.

    There is no data in this “report”. It’s more of a riddle.

    The color is characterized as blue. Could it be Cherenkov radiation? Maybe, but there is insufficient data to tell us that it is not simply an arc-lamp running intermittently and combusting hydrogen.

    This “report” makes more questions than it answers.

    • Ged

      Just product specs.

      Edit: Rossi did say it was not going to be a raw data report, so no surprise. Product spec data is still very nice.

    • keV

      Sounds simple enough to me. He says that all percentage figures of heat, light and electricity must add up to 100% of the 100watt hours per hour of energy. So yes you could have 0% electricity, but then the heat and light percentages must add up to 100%. I agree that the 0-whatever figures are somewhat misleading because the heat will always be a minimum of 40% regardless because the light and electricity percentages can be no greater than 60% combined. It’s an interesting twist and needs more answers from Rossi.

      Scale:
      100watts average output from 0.5watt average input from something about the size of the plastic ink containers inside those small throw away pens.

      Real world examples:
      Take 20 of them and make a 2kw fire to keep an old person warm in winter for the cost of running a 10 watt light bulb. Or better still spread them around the house giving various quantities heat, light and electricity on demand. Heat gets diverted to electricity/light when kettles/lights etc. are used. Output returns back to heat when electricity/heat isn’t required.

      Substitute heat for air conditioning in the summer months.

      Use the electricity for water desalination in certain regions of the world – make up your own list of uses, it’s pretty much endless.

      After 5 years, I still have high hopes – I guess that means I have common sense over-unity, but I’m OK with that : )

      • Anon2012_2014

        keV,

        You read a lot into what looks like a sparsely flushed out riddle. Your conjectures might be true, but why speak in riddles like the Oracle or a contemporary fortune teller.

        I say that is unfair to us in Rossi’s audience. You might say that Rossi owes us nothing as we have no business relationship with him. No, it is common decency to not mislead the audience that you are going to have a report and then provide a riddle. It’s bait and switch.

        Rossi should throw us a bone!

        • keV

          Anon 2012_2014,
          I gave up fairly early on Rossi providing physical evidence before a product hits the market. It’s more hope than belief on my part now. But I am aware and comfortable with that. If this is all a Rossi fantasy then the detail is sublime (rivalling Tolkien) – I actually think it would be easier for Rossi to do it for real than to keep making this stuff up : )

          The e-cat was an extraordinary claim in the field of LENR. The ecat-x, as described today, needs a new description – how about ultra-extraordinary?

          I don’t mind keeping my seat in the back row of this particular show – it’s spectacular!

  • psi2u2

    Nice. But what was your cop?

  • My main takeaways from this announcement:

    * The COP levels and the three different kinds of energy out make this oh so easy to verify in terms of over-unity. Middle school students could verify this in an afternoon lab class. If a credible entity eventually goes public with claims that they have validated the QuarkX, then we have something very close to definitive proof.

    * That said, no corroboration from the new prospective partner yet, which is disappointing. Rossi usually doesn’t lie about joint tests and partners, but we can’t say for sure until somebody pipes up.

    * While its use for verification is somewhat disappointing, the performance described by the report is anything but. This thing, if real, will transform everything that has anything to do with energy — which is everything in one way or another. While it may take decades, we are, if this thing is real, on the verge of an era of abundance and things in science fiction becoming commonplace. Wow.

    * Visible wavelength radiation provided Rossi a clue to the physics. Sounds like he and his partners are converging — finally — on a solid understanding of not just the what, but the why.

    * Still some ways away from mass manufacturing. More tests and probably they want to nail down the theoretic underpinnings first.

    • Julio Ruben Vazquez Turnes

      Could someone ask this to Rossi.

      When do you think you will start to commercialize the Quark X?

      Are you still selling the plants like the one used for the 1 Year test?
      If yes, did the problem with IH affect to the current commercialization status?

      Thanks.

      • Gerard McEk

        He hopes this year. There is still some development that needs to be done.

        • Zephir

          I seriously doubt it: the bluish glowing reactor would look way too much sci-fi for every governmental regulator.

    • Toulmin

      I think it is interesting that the test was published on ecat.com which is handled by Hydrofusion. To me this is a sign that Hydrofusion particpated in the test. This give somewhat more credibility to Rossi claims.

    • Stephen

      I guess the spectra of the Balmer Series emissions if any could give huge amount of information about the process occurring and the changes in composition. Even exotic processes such as from hybrid atoms, UDH or unusual electron orbitals may become visible in these emissions as well as normal emissions from He or unusual isotopes etc.

      Interestingly though I think the blue halo is from out side the hole? Which seems to imply some stimulation of the air surrounding the device or perhaps some short range effects resulting in photons from particle emissions out side the device.

      Still I guess the specta will give a lot of information about the process and what particles are involved if relevant.

      If a device can be released soon along with a good accompanying theory that will be amazing and hard for anyone to deny.

  • akupaku

    Actually more info than I expected, what a happy surprise! ;o)

    Does not say in what form the electricity is produced, if it is directly usable or needs conversion to usable AC/DC from some complex spectrum of electrical output.

    Now just get mass production of these tiny wonder sticks going ASAP. If I remember correctly the factory in Sweden is supposed to produce half a million units per year, that’s only about a couple of thousand per working day which sounds ridiculously low! Hopefully he means some bigger units than individual QuarkX sticks. Otherwise the production is overly complex and time consuming. Maybe some time consuming thermal treatment is required? Speeding the production process is of utmost importance to meet explosive demand when the news spread. Otherwise a black market for overpriced QuarkX sticks will appear overnight, it would be more profitable to resell with a higher price.

    • tlp

      Whatetever electricity, you can charge battery with that. And whatever electricity QuarkX needs for input, that can be drained from a battery.

      • US_Citizen71

        If it requires high voltage and high current in short bursts, building a stand alone power pack for self looping might be problematic for a single unit.

        • Gerard McEk

          You can make that of battery level 12V DC supply, no problem.
          What I do not understand is why AR says there is a safety implication if you would control the QuarkX directly from a battery supply, which is loaded by the QuarkX, to make the QuarkX self sustained (Barty below).

          • US_Citizen71

            Doable sure, but smaller than a filing cabinet? What I mean is in order to have both high voltage and high current you will need quite the 12VDC battery, something like a deep cycle marine battery. Also the power supplies needed to turn that 12VDC into high voltage high current ac are not going to be small either. Then the question becomes is it just the battery power causing the effect and you then have to do a very long run to prove that the total volume of the power pack is not just a battery (aka Orbo).

          • Gerard McEk

            We are not talking about large powers (0.5W). I am a experienced engineer in this and it is not difficult nor impossible to build a small unit. Starting up may require a bit more power, but I am sure it can be done.

          • US_Citizen71

            I do not doubt it can be done. The .5W is it constant or an average? The devil is in the details. .5W constant not a big a deal, 100W for 1 second every 200 seconds on the other hand is a bit more difficult, still not impossible, 10kW for 10ms every 2 seconds now we are talking some interesting engineering and all of them give .5W hourly average. Then there is the safety issue Rossi always brings up. Until he is able to or decides to fully explain it we should probably take him at his word.

          • DrD

            It’s really not that difficult. Look up FMMT415 data sheet. It’s a tiny SOT23, a bit bigger than a pin head. It can do over 100A (100V) in nSec pulses. I’m sure he doesn’t need such short pulse widths and probably not such high currents but I’m just illustrating what’s achievable. They can be combined to give higher currents etc.

    • Jimr

      I can’t believe that was more info than you expected. I think it was a minimal amount. Also I keep seeing comments about starting mass production soon, even though Rossi says there is additional development needed. I am pleased Rossi realizes more work is needed before release. He has mellowed from the later part of 2011 when he was preaching robotic factories and mass production (but not much).

    • DrD

      He previously said it is DC

  • leemr

    Rossi says that the sum of heat, light, and electricity output must be 100%. He also lists electricity in the range of 0-10%, light 0-50%, and heat 0-100%. If the sum is 100% and it is tuned for maximum electricity and light, then the heat must still be 40% (i.e. 40% heat + 50% light + 10% electricity = 100%).
    Thus the range should really be 40-100% for heat.

    I recall that there was some mention a few months ago that the QuarkX could be run at 0 heat but at a reduced efficiency. So maybe Rossi means that the numbers have to add up to 100% for 100W output. For smaller output the heat could be reduced. The simplest configuration for widespread adoption would be 0 heat and maximum electricity (light doesn’t really matter) just as long as the COP is > 1.

    • Alain Samoun

      I think that you are not interpreting the numbers correctly,I understand that Rossi can module the output modes of the quark,when he says Heat 0-100% it means that the energy produced can be 0% heat (no heat) and 100% heat (No other mode of energy). When he says 0-10% electricity,this means No electricity to 10% of the energy in form of electricity,probably the rest of energy in the form of heat and light: Can be 0% light and 90% heat or 50%light and 40%heat or in between?

      • Axil Axil

        Rossi has only one input control mechanism to control the format of the energy that the quark produces. That input must be the waveform of the input energy,

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Perhaps, but the REAL issue is the output of energy and what you do with it. See my above post, but a simple aperture to let more or less light out means that light is converted to heat or light. And if you let that light hit a PV , then then you converting to electricity.

          • Axil Axil

            You misunderstand. The aperture is a hole in the heat exchanger in which the quark sits. The Quark is a tube shape: think pencil.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            That light is from the heat exchanger? No way!

            Rossi states
            Extremely interesting is the blue light, the analysis of which has resolved
            theoretical problems related to the roots of the effect

            If you saying that the light is simply light from the heat exchanger, then you have to explain how such light could “resolve” theoretical problems as to the roots of the effect?

            It is dead simple and clear that the light in question is being emitted from the device, and the % numbers Rossi gives as to using a aperture much explains what is going on here in how one has light or heat emitted from the device – and even the conversion numbers match typical conversion rates of light into energy. Also Rossi stated the light in the picture is far brighter.

            And this is not the first time Rossi stated that this device can produce light.

            Time will tell, but if I were a betting man, what I outlined above makes the most sense.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Until we hear of something better, your model seems doable.

            I can see a sliding sleve that would control 100% light and 0% heat being fully retracted to 100% heat and 0% light with the sleve fully extended and covering the QuarkX rod.

            When the sleve is fully retracted, then another PV sleve extends to covers the QuarkX rod to get 10% & later 20% conversion efficiency from the light energy.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I think the “giveaway” is the part about analysing the light output.

            If I toss a hunk of lead on the ground and heat it with light from the sun, or a propane torch, I learn ZERO from the heat source by studying the heat coming off that hunk of lead.

            On the other hand, if I study the light source (from that propane touch) or from the sun, then a spectral analysis will yield BOATLOADS of information about that heat source.

            So looking at a secondary heated mass RARELY will give you information about the heat source.

            This also explains why Rossi stated that not only is the picture obfuscated, but the colors been changed also. That color and spectral analyses would no doubt yield valuable information about what elements are in the reactor that is producing the light. The fact that Rossi even mentions this shows that the light has valuable information that anyone who heard of spectrometry would instantly realise such light can tattle tell much about the device.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • US_Citizen71

            What if the light is a completely different color? The image was created in Adobe Photoshop CC 2014 Windows from the image data. Changing hue is simplistic there. The below image took all of 5 seconds to create.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Yup.

            That spectrum is worth a LOT of Gold bars.

          • Axil Axil

            The light is coming through a peephole in the heat exchanger. That hole is used to see what the Quark is doing experimentally. The heat exchanger is capturing the power from the quark so it can be measured. The peep hole lets some light come out so that the experimenter can take a spectrum of it. Don’t confuse the experimental setup for a eventual product configuration.

          • DrD

            The light from the quark (through the peep hole) would be quite different from the 1500 degC black body radiation from the body of the heat exchanger.
            Depending on it’s spectral distrubution the former might or might not be much use for lighting but could give the theoretical information being discussed.
            The latter might be more useful for lighting but even 1500 degC seems a bit low.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      And you wonder why Rossi does not want to show pictures?

      It really quite simple what Rossi is doing here.

      The device has an aperture. If you open the aperture then light escapes out and thus does not hit the walls of the reactor and you now emitting 100% light. So just like the heat from the sun comes to earth as light (as long as it don’t hit anything), then how this cell works is much the same.

      The light from the sun don’t become heat UNTIL it hits something. By the way, I am much open to the idea that our sun works on a LENR effect and not high temp fusion (but let’s save this for another long discussion).

      Now how about you let that light hit a solar cell, and you get 10% electricity (a typical conversion rate these days for a PV). And if most of the light is escaping the quark, then VERY little
      heat is going to be produced, is it? So perhaps a smooth surface or mirror is at one end of the device, but light going out means no heat inside (or very little).

      And thus you have a choice. So either you contain the light inside (and you get 100% output = heat as the light hits the container walls). Or you let some light out, and get LESS heat, and the
      light going out is either light, or you let that light hit a PV. So once again, you “choose” what to do with that light.

      As noted, even just the “tiny” bit of information here VERY MUCH spills the BEANS on how this device can produce heat, or light or electricity. And this is not some whacked out physics idea,
      but simply plain old basic high school science and physics.

      Now, as to the internal workings of the device and how Rossi produces such a great LENR effect is another matter, but the rest in terms of light, heat and electricity is a no brainer.

      Is it any wonder that Rossi not wanted any pictures and even with what he stated so far – it rather clear how the device can have its output go to heat, light, or electricity.

      Regards
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

      • Engineer48

        Hi Albert,

        Nice thoughts there.

        However typical home silicon solar panels are over 20% efficiency with best efficiency around 45% for multilayer cells.

        But then again if the light is mostly blue, that doesn’t fit silicon cells well.

        Ideally Rossi would need to use multi layer cells that are tailored to the QuarkX output spectrum.

        But yes your idea could be how he does the magic energy shifting.

      • DrD

        Hi Albert.
        Certainly makes sense but it needs to be said that he was asked that and said the electric wasn’t from PV or thermoelectric. Having said that, I also appreciate that his Q&A can be unreliable.

        • Albert D. Kallal

          Actually, I recall Rossi stated not from seabeck (thermo-electric), but I don’t recall Rossi stating or ruling out PV.

    • DrD

      Yes and I asked him that very question (100% light, no heat, reduced efficiency) yesterday but he denied having ever said it but then I found the Q&A, it was from AMOS on 27th Feb.
      It never did make sense that you can have 100% light and no heat (onlt the stars do that) so I think he missunderstood Amos Question.

  • Gerard McEk

    Rossi is very silent about his new partner. I hope things are well. This is where this test was all about.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Gerard,

      We didn’t learn of IH till the ink was dry for 2 years.

  • artefact

    “Andrea Rossi June 14, 2016 at 10:12 AM
    Robert Dorr:
    Thank you.
    The negotitions in Sweden are on course.
    Yes, I confirm the dimensions. Not the results, that must be verified.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

  • Jacques

    I really REALLY want to believe, but my personal BS Meter keeps waving its arms and shouting Danger! Danger! Rossi’s ability to keep everyone here on tenterhooks by dribbling out factoids is a continuing source of amazement. (He should be Donald Trump’s running mate.) I’m going to step back for a bit and follow this from afar. When we get real actual information then I’ll jump back in.

    • Wise – but hard in practice. How will you know if there’s been a major development while you were ‘away’? What are the most informed commenters saying in your absence? The longer you stay away the stronger you will be pulled back. Just go with the flow – we all need our small addictions.

  • Gerrit

    It means nothing to me

    This means nothing to me

    Oh, Andrea

    • Fully agree.

      This is not a “report”.
      It’s just another “Rossi said”. Believe it or not.

      The most important info, the name of the partner, which could give those claims a huge credibility, will maybe never been released. Diasspointing.

      • Gerrit is making a play on the lyrics for ‘Vienna’ by Midge Ure. Please don’t treat every comment as an opportunity to relentlessly keep making your same negative point over and over – it gets boring. The ‘report’ is unsubstantiated ‘Rossi Says’ and doesn’t tell us everything we want to know – we get it, thanks.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Enola Gay
      You should have stayed at home yesterday
      Ah-ha words can’t describe
      The feeling and the way you lied

      These games you play
      They’re going to end in more than tears some day
      Ah-ha Enola Gay
      It shouldn’t ever have to end this way

      Enola Gay
      It shouldn’t ever have to end this way
      Ah-ha Enola Gay
      It shouldn’t fade in our dreams away

      Enola Gay
      Is Mother proud of Little Boy today
      Ah-ha this kiss you give
      It’s never ever going to fade away

      • US_Citizen71

        I don’t think the occasion is that somber, it might be that historic.

  • sam

    This truck driver hopes it is this.
    light at the end of the tunnel
    › signs of improvement in a situation that has been bad for a long time, or signs that a long and difficult piece of work is almost finished:

  • theBuckWheat

    As supportive as I am, it is time for a lot more transparency.

    • Ged

      For a second there, I thought you were writing about the Obama administration!

      • Alain Samoun

        A COP of 200 with 10% electricity that means 10W electric for 0.5W input or an electric COP of 20! That’s where the revolution will be if of course it is confirmed by a third party…

  • theBuckWheat

    As supportive as I am, it is time for a lot more transparency.

    • Ged

      For a second there, I thought you were writing about the Obama administration!

  • akupaku

    I think the electricity to heat ratio is too low for many purposes, I am thinking of electric cars or smaller electric appliances, even mobile phones. It would be difficult to get rid of the unusable heat. But maybe the ratio can be improved with more research and technical refinements. And some of the light can be converted to electricity too. Can’t wait to have a QuarkX battery replacement for my laptop and mobile phone, no more charging every day.

    • Ged

      Might do better as a portable charger due to that waste heat.

      • akupaku

        Sure, would feel scared to have a mobile phone in my pocket knowing there is a nuclear reactor inside running over 1500 C, lol.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Akupaku,

          Forget the 1500C. Issue is how many watts of waste heat need to be radiated.

          If we can get say 25% with good solar tech & your phone needs 1Wh, then we drop input watts so output is 4W and then need to get rid of 3W of waste heat, leaving 1W for your phone.

    • gerald

      I’m thinking agriculture buildings. Light and heat, use the electricity on leds with a usable wavelength.

      • akupaku

        Sure, greenhouses sound like an ideal application, bringing food production capabilities to places where it is now not economical or feasible.

    • giovanniontheweb

      it depends, temperature doesn’t necessarily mean heat, it depends if the process can work without exhausting heat, if it can it is only matter of shielding

    • Hador_NYC

      there are several heat engines on teh market. Cyclone power has one. This seems like a natural fit to me.

    • DrD

      Actually, I suspect that the waste heat in conventional cars is very similar. It’s rejected mostly through the exhaust and radiator.
      The other suggestions made below will all help.

  • pg

    To Sam: Light at the end of the tunnel. Brilliant

  • pg

    To Sam: Light at the end of the tunnel. Brilliant

  • Alain Samoun

    A COP of 200 with 10% electricity that means 10W electric for 0.5W input or an electric COP of 20! That’s where the revolution will be if of course it is confirmed by a third party…

  • Alain Samoun

    I think that you are not interpreting the numbers correctly,I understand that Rossi can module the output modes of the quark,when he says Heat 0-100% it means that the energy produced can be 0% heat (no heat) and 100% heat (No other mode of energy). When he says 0-10% electricity,this means No electricity to 10% of the energy in form of electricity,probably the rest of energy in the form of heat and light.

    • Axil Axil

      Rossi has only one input control mechanism to control the format of the energy that the quark produces. That input must be the waveform of the input energy,

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Perhaps, but the REAL issue is the output of energy and what you do with it. See my above post, but a simple aperture to let more or less light out means that light is converted to heat or light. And if you let that light hit a PV , then then you converting to electricity.

        • Axil Axil

          You misunderstand. The aperture is a hole in the heat exchanger in which the quark sits. The Quark is a tube shape: think pencil.

          • BillH

            Just use a couple of hundred quarks on 50% light to power your solar cells during the night, energy generation you can use 24/7, very inefficient, but who cares. Just get on with it…

          • Albert D. Kallal

            That light is from the heat exchanger? No way!

            Rossi states
            Extremely interesting is the blue light, the analysis of which has resolved
            theoretical problems related to the roots of the effect

            If you saying that the light is simply light from the heat exchanger, then you have to explain how such light could “resolve” theoretical problems as to the roots of the effect?

            It is dead simple and clear that the light in question is being emitted from the device, and the % numbers Rossi gives as to using a aperture much explains what is going on here in how one has light or heat emitted from the device – and even the conversion numbers match typical conversion rates of light into energy. Also Rossi stated the light in the picture is far brighter.

            And this is not the first time Rossi stated that this device can produce light.

            Time will tell, but if I were a betting man, what I outlined above makes the most sense.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Until we hear of something better, your model seems doable.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            I think the “giveaway” is the part about analysing the light output.

            If I toss a hunk of lead on the ground and heat it with light from the sun, or a propane torch, I learn ZERO from the heat source by studying the heat coming off that hunk of lead.

            On the other hand, if I study the light source (from that propane touch) or from the sun, then a spectral analysis will yield BOATLOADS of information about that heat source.

            So looking at a secondary heated mass RARELY will give you information about the heat source.

            This also explains why Rossi stated that not only is the picture obfuscated, but the colors been changed also. That color and spectral analyses would no doubt yield valuable information about what elements are in the reactor that is producing the light. The fact that Rossi even mentions this shows that the light has valuable information that anyone who heard of spectrometry would instantly realise such light can tattle tell much about the device.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • US_Citizen71

            What if the light is a completely different color? The image was created in Adobe Photoshop CC 2014 Windows from the image data. Changing hue is simplistic there. The below image took all of 5 seconds to create.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Yup.

            That spectrum is worth a LOT of Gold bars.

          • Axil Axil

            The light is coming through a peephole in the heat exchanger. That hole is used to see what the Quark is doing experimentally. The heat exchanger is capturing the power from the quark so it can be measured. The peep hole lets some light come out so that the experimenter can take a spectrum of it. Don’t confuse the experimental setup for a eventual product configuration.

          • DrD

            The light from the quark (through the peep hole) would be quite different from the 1500 degC black body radiation from the body of the heat exchanger.
            Depending on it’s spectral distrubution the former might or might not be much use for lighting but could give the theoretical information being discussed.
            The latter might be more useful for lighting but even 1500 degC seems a bit low.

  • Mike

    How is it possible to reach 0% heat production? If the surface temperature is 1500C it is easy to calculate the heat flux due to radiation and I doubt that the surrounding surfaces have the same temperature (1500C). Something doesn’t fit in the list of heat, light and electricity ranges.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      I guess that the 1500C figure is not meant to be representative for all possible configurations. Maybe you could ask Rossi via JoNP. But anyway, (almost) 0% heat would be an interesting result, especially if significant amounts of electric energy are produced.

      • psi2u2

        ‘Rossi says’ the percentages can vary within large ranges over time. There seems to be a claim that one could achieve 100% electric and light at least under some circumstances possibly ascertained only theoretically.

        • NCY

          As the max for electricity is 10% and the max for light is 50% that means the minimum for heat would be 40% per what rossi said above.

    • DrD

      Yesterday I asked about that but he denied ever having said it.
      but then I found the Q&A, it was from AMOS on 27th Feb.
      It never
      did make sense that you can have 100% light and no heat (only the stars
      do that) so I think he missunderstood Amos Question.

  • Axil Axil

    Remember the output spectrum of the SunCell. The SunCell produces EMF in the XUV range and I would expect this to be true for the quark. Mills produces light at 10 mm wavelength, An important bit of info that can tell a lot of what is going on is the spectral lines coming bring produce by the quark.

    The quark is converting nuclear binding energy and converting it into light over a wide range of frequencies.

  • Axil Axil

    Remember the output spectrum of the SunCell. The SunCell produces EMF in the XUV range and I would expect this to be true for the quark. Mills produces light at 10 mm wavelength, An important bit of info that can tell a lot of what is going on is the spectral lines coming bring produced by the quark.

    The quark is converting nuclear binding energy and converting it into light over a wide range of frequencies.

  • Thomas Baccei

    Even my cat gets tired of chasing mice. The Rossi saga is getting sooooooooooo boring.
    Either he is on of the great Trolls of all time or his manipulation of public opinion is a piece on a much larger chess board. It wouldn’t take much to give a convincing demo of such a device, but the never ending strategy is tease, tease, tease. He therefore wants a small footprint of loyal fans for some reason, and not wide spread acceptance. It continues to be all smoke and mirrors, and behind curtain is what? Same as it ever was? If Mr. Snakes and Ladders has the goods there is NO chance that the whole saga is as it has been presented, No chance, no way. Covert governmental agencies would be utterly irresponsible if such a public strip tease in a field so potentially disruptive wasn’t looked into, and while I am not in the business, how hard could it be to get a fly on the wall of Mr. Rossi’s magic act? Or scoop his electronic communications, or his phones?

    So, as I see it, all this nonsense is part of a much more complex and (almost) frightening drama whose players and rules are not as they appear. Possible direct weaponization? Check! Disruption of the entire global economy? Check! Rapid changes in the balance of Power? Check! Cracks in the facade (public announcements of serious and growing governmental interest?? Check!

    I do think we are entering the end stages of this unprecedented drama, and Mr. Snakes and Ladders might or might not be a serious player, but there is no doubt anymore about LENR itself. It just may not be what, in the end, we had hoped for.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Get a grip on yourself, he is an eccentric old researcher with a blog and a chat thread, he talks to people who are interested when he feels like it. He is not a performing chimp entertaining your passions for profit. Have you not yet realize dthat he does not give a fig or a farthing what other people think unless they are supportive of him as a human being?

      • timycelyn

        Hear, hear! Well said, Ophelia.

        • Ecco

          By the way, if 50% of the input energy can be emitted as light, this would also be the most efficient light source ever made.

          • Axil Axil

            The light produced is 50% of the OUTPUT energy. The output energy is 200 times the input energy.

          • Ecco

            You’re right. However, it would be a technological breakthrough even if the output energy was equal to the input energy.

          • Axil Axil

            I am sure that there is a huge amount of UV produced. I wonder if Rossi is measuring that invisible light(Black light).

          • DrD

            YES, He should be giving us the Lumens!

          • akupaku

            LEDs can also convert 50% of the input energy to light.

          • DrD

            But the Quark in comparison is 10,000%

      • Thomas Baccei

        What are you Ophelia? A marriage counsellor? or a Zoo keeper? I do not give a Republican’s IQ on what Mr. Snakes and Ladders wants. You are perhaps a snake or ladder yourself, for all I know. You think he is a harmless eccentric (knitting his way through tens of millions) passing the time by engaging in a harmless hobby? You must be daft! Truth is I couldn’t care less what he (or you ) think (if you can call it that.) Read what I said again, and write me a long note in two or three years if it makes more sense to you then. But as for now, O&O.

        • Jarea

          Thomas, you are also being unfair.
          First, you are attacking the persons (Rossi and now Ophelia). Stop talking about behaviors and intentions and think again about the facts.
          You say that the facts are that Rossi hasnt proved anything.
          The fact is that he has done a lot of demos and at least 2 third party reviews. We can discuss again about hidden things in these reviews but the fact is that third part proffessionals have been able to certify that the device works.
          Not only testers did that but companies like Elforsk did. There are also claimed independent reproduced ecat devices in China and Russia. Are all paid to say that? Is all a big fraud?. I understand that this can be done better from the scientific point of view. However, this is not the CERN . Here we have surprisingly a man without a LENR direct patent that needs to protect his ip and at same point convince the people. Would you do that better?

          i think you should start reducing your critic tone to not appear as a faith crusader against Rossi.

        • psi2u2

          Did you know that you can be a really unattractive person in your posts sometimes?

          • Roland

            Quite deliberately so by every indication.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Oh, you are politically oriented. Tragic.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Thomas.

          There is no need to attach the poster directly.
          Bad manners old chap.
          I’m sure you are smart enough to put your point across without insulting others.

    • giovanniontheweb

      whoever has a minimum industrial experience knows how rough is keeping timeline consistent with existing consolidated products production, whoever has a minimum R&D experience knows how rough is keeping timeline consistent with existing consolidated projects, bim bum bam works good only with ice cream , and yet…

    • Axil Axil

      The first nuclear reactor was build in 1942 and it took 50 years to get that thing to where it is today. LENR will be the same.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        By 1945 that 1st reactor had grown into several atomic bombs. Only took 3 years & of course a war.

        • US_Citizen71

          …and more than trillion in today’s dollars along with the cream of the crop of scientific minds available.

          • Axil Axil

            And another 10 trillion to clean up the mess that have produced.

    • Up-vote for an overview that includes the possibility of geopolitical games being played involving unknown parties who use disinformation, distraction and partial truths to keep eyes off the ball. The rest, perhaps less so.

  • Thomas Baccei

    Even my cat gets tired of chasing mice. The Rossi saga is getting sooooooooooo boring.
    Either he is on of the great Trolls of all time or his manipulation of public opinion is a piece on a much larger chess board. It wouldn’t take much to give a convincing demo of such a device, but the never ending strategy is tease, tease, tease. He therefore wants a small footprint of loyal fans for some reason, and not wide spread acceptance. It continues to be all smoke and mirrors, and behind curtain is what? Same as it ever was? If Mr. Snakes and Ladders has the goods there is NO chance that the whole saga is as it has been presented, No chance, no way. Covert governmental agencies would be utterly irresponsible if such a public strip tease in a field so potentially disruptive wasn’t looked into, and while I am not in the business, how hard could it be to get a fly on the wall of Mr. Rossi’s magic act? Or scoop his electronic communications, or his phones?

    So, as I see it, all this nonsense is part of a much more complex and (almost) frightening drama whose players and rules are not as they appear. Possible direct weaponization? Check! Disruption of the entire global economy? Check! Rapid changes in the balance of Power? Check! Cracks in the facade (public announcements of serious and growing governmental interest?? Check!

    I do think we are entering the end stages of this unprecedented drama, and Mr. Snakes and Ladders might or might not be a serious player, but there is no doubt anymore about LENR itself. It just may not be what, in the end, we had hoped for.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Get a grip on yourself, he is an eccentric old researcher with a blog and a chat thread, he talks to people who are interested when he feels like it. He is not a performing chimp entertaining your passions for profit. Have you not yet realized that he does not give a fig or a farthing what other people think unless they are supportive of him as a human being?

      • timycelyn

        Hear, hear! Well said, Ophelia.

      • Thomas Baccei

        What are you Ophelia? A marriage counsellor? or a Zoo keeper? I do not give a Republican’s IQ on what Mr. Snakes and Ladders wants. You are perhaps a snake or ladder yourself, for all I know. You think he is a harmless eccentric (knitting his way through tens of millions) passing the time by engaging in a harmless hobby? You must be daft! Truth is I couldn’t care less what he (or you ) think (if you can call it that.) Read what I said again, and write me a long note in two or three years if it makes more sense to you then. But as for now, O&O.

        • Jarea

          Thomas, you are also being unfair.
          First, you are attacking the persons (Rossi and now Ophelia). Stop talking about behaviors and intentions and think again about the facts.
          You say that the facts are that Rossi hasnt proved anything.
          The fact is that he has done a lot of demos and at least 2 third party reviews. We can discuss again about hidden things in these reviews but the fact is that third part proffessionals have been able to certify that the device works.
          Not only testers did that but companies like Elforsk did. There are also claimed independent reproduced ecat devices in China and Russia. Are all paid to say that? Is all a big fraud?. I understand that this can be done better from the scientific point of view. However, this is not the CERN . Here we have surprisingly a man without a LENR direct patent that needs to protect his ip and at same point convince the people. Would you do that better?

          i think you should start reducing your critic tone to not appear as a faith crusader against Rossi.

        • psi2u2

          Did you know that you can be a really unattractive person in your posts sometimes?

          • Roland

            Quite deliberately so by every indication.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Oh, you are politically oriented. Tragic.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Thomas.

          There is no need to attach the poster directly.
          Bad manners old chap.
          I’m sure you are smart enough to put your point across without insulting others.

        • bachcole

          I am a registered Republican and my IQ was measured at 140, or as I prefer, 96%ile. Your hatred is twisting/kinking your perception.

    • giovanniontheweb

      whoever has a minimum industrial experience knows how rough is keeping timeline consistent with existing consolidated products production, whoever has a minimum R&D experience knows how rough is keeping timeline consistent with existing consolidated projects, bim bum bam works good only with ice cream , and yet…

    • Axil Axil

      The first nuclear reactor was build in 1942 and it took 50 years to get that thing to where it is today. LENR will be the same.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Axil,

        By 1945 that 1st reactor had grown into several atomic bombs. Only took 3 years & of course a war.

        • US_Citizen71

          …and more than a trillion in today’s dollars along with the cream of the crop of scientific minds available.

          • Axil Axil

            And another 10 trillion to clean up the mess that they have produced.

      • fact police

        The first nuclear reactor was build in 1942 and it took 50 years to get that thing to where it is today. LENR will be the same.

        That’s not accurate. It took 50 years to get it to where it was in 1992. It took 74 years to get it where it is today. But neither of those are relevant.

        The first reactor was unequivocally real — no one doubted its function. The first power reactor was completed in 1951, less than a decade later.

        Yes, there was more money spent, but the scale and complexity of a fission reactor is necessarily orders of magnitude larger than what is claimed in cold fusion. The whole point of cold fusion is its simplicity, small scale, and no fallout.

        That cold fusion doesn’t *need* massive investment and subsequent clean-up should accelerate its deployment, not delay it.

    • Up-vote for an overview that includes the possibility of geopolitical games being played involving unknown parties who use disinformation, distraction and partial truths to keep eyes off the ball. The rest, perhaps less so.

  • Toulmin

    I asked AR on JONP if Hydrofusion and Fulvio Fabiani participated in the test. Interestingly (and strangely) AR edited my question and removed Fabiani and instead wrote “Did anybody of the team that made the 1 year test on the 1MW E-Cat participate?”. Anyone who has a clue on why he did remove Fabiani from my question?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Perhaps just to make the question more transparent to a larger number of readers.

  • Axil Axil

    The Quark takes us one step forward and two steps back. It is a capital engineering offence to use the energy that is coming of the Quark to produce steam. The Quark cries out for photovoltaic conversion of light directly into electricity,

    This means that all that work done during the 1 tear test must be discarded. The time to release a product is pushed back again.

    On the other hand, Rossi could sell the quark to a value added vender and let that vender convert the EMF power output coming off the quark to something useful.

    An initial product might be a light bulb.

    Rossi did not mention RF coming off the Quark.

    • Gerald

      He said the shielding was not just to protect the eyes. But that could mean a lot of things.

    • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

      It would make a very bright (for its power level), but perhaps not very long lasting light source. perhaps a flashlight?

    • Roland

      Sometime ago a poster here noted that the sales potential for the 1megW plant was on the order of 600,000 units in the USA alone as replacements for existing low temp steam plants powered by, expensive, conventional fuels.

      Rossi has given us to understand that engineering the next generation 1megW plant is in the process of incorporating the knowledge gained during the year long test and that the first 3 can be expected to ship in about 6 months to the customer that helped test the first generation.

      If you run the numbers there is a very substantial market for cost effective low temperature steam, why walk away?

      There is an even larger market for high temperature steam.

      The degree to which E-cats and Quarks can be integrated into existing systems will be a determinate of either cooperation or resistance on the part of very powerful economic entities that are currently slowly killing us with carbon, their full cooperation in managing the shift to a non polluting power source is of inestimable value.

  • Axil Axil

    The Quark takes us one step forward and two steps back. It is a capital engineering offence to use the energy that is coming off the Quark to produce steam. The Quark cries out for photovoltaic conversion of light directly into electricity,

    This means that all that work done during the 1 tear test must be discarded. The time to release a product is pushed back again.

    On the other hand, Rossi could sell the quark to a value added vender and let that vender convert the EMF power output coming off the quark to something useful.

    An initial product might be a light bulb.

    Rossi did not mention RF coming off the Quark.

    • Gerald

      He said the shielding was not just to protect the eyes. But that could mean a lot of things.

    • NCY

      It would make a very bright (for its power level), but perhaps not very long lasting light source. perhaps a flashlight?

    • Roland

      Sometime ago a poster here noted that the sales potential for the 1megW plant was on the order of 600,000 units in the USA alone as replacements for existing low temp steam plants powered by, expensive, conventional fuels.

      Rossi has given us to understand that engineering the next generation 1megW plant is in the process of incorporating the knowledge gained during the year long test and that the first 3 can be expected to ship in about 6 months to the customer that helped test the first generation.

      If you run the numbers there is a very substantial market for cost effective low temperature steam, why walk away?

      There is an even larger market for high temperature steam.

      The degree to which E-cats and Quarks can be integrated into existing systems will be a determinate of either cooperation or resistance on the part of very powerful economic entities that are currently slowly killing us with carbon, their full cooperation in managing the shift to a non polluting power source is of inestimable value.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    And you wonder why Rossi does not want to show pictures?

    It really quite simple what Rossi is doing here.

    The device has an aperture. If you open the aperture then light escapes out and thus does not hit the walls of the reactor and you now emitting 100% light. So just like the heat from the sun comes to earth as light (as long as it don’t hit anything), then how this cell works is much the same.

    The light from the sun don’t become heat UNTIL it hits something. By the way, I am much open to the idea that our sun works on a LENR effect and not high temp fusion (but let’s save this for another long discussion).

    Now how about you let that light hit a solar cell, and you get 10% electricity (a typical conversion rate these days for a PV). And if most of the light is escaping the quark, then VERY little
    heat is going to be produced, is it? So perhaps a smooth surface or mirror is at one end of the device, but light going out means no heat inside (or very little).

    And thus you have a choice. So either you contain the light inside (and you get 100% output = heat as the light hits the container walls). Or you let some light out, and get LESS heat, and the
    light going out is either light, or you let that light hit a PV. So once again, you “choose” what to do with that light.

    As noted, even just the “tiny” bit of information here VERY MUCH spills the BEANS on how this device can produce heat, or light or electricity. And this is not some whacked out physics idea,
    but simply plain old basic high school science and physics.

    Now, as to the internal workings of the device and how Rossi produces such a great LENR effect is another matter, but the rest in terms of light, heat and electricity is a no brainer.

    Is it any wonder that Rossi not wanted any pictures and even with what he stated so far – it rather clear how the device can have its output go to heat, light, or electricity.

    Regards
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Engineer48

      Hi Albert,

      Nice thoughts there.

      However typical home silicon solar panels are over 20% efficiency with best efficiency around 45% for multilayer cells.

      But then again if the light is mostly blue, that doesn’t fit silicon cells well.

      Ideally Rossi would need to use multi layer cells that are tailored to the QuarkX output spectrum.

      But yes your idea could be how he does the magic energy shifting.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        I guess that the 1500C figure is not meant to be representative for all possible configurations. Maybe you could ask Rossi via JoNP. But anyway, (almost) 0% heat would be an interesting result, especially if significant amounts of electric energy are produced.

        • psi2u2

          ‘Rossi says’ the percentages can vary within large ranges over time. There seems to be a claim that one could achieve %100 electric and light at least under some circumstances possibly ascertained only theoretically.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            As the max for electricity is 10% and the max for light is 50% that means the minimum for heat would be 40% per what rossi said above.

    • DrD

      Hi Albert.
      Certainly makes sense but it needs to be said that he was asked that and said the electric wasn’t from PV or thermoelectric. Having said that, I also appreciate that his Q&A can be unreliable.

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Actually, I recall Rossi stated not from seabeck (thermo-electric), but I don’t recall Rossi stating or ruling out PV.

        • INVENTOR INVENTED

          Is he going to be dealing quark-x’s any time soon? Independent labs should buy them and test them. I expect they wont be sold in the time frame he said they will and there will be more controversy.

        • LCD

          It’s time to make a damn product though. Nuff talk.

  • BillH

    Just use a couple of hundred quarks on 50% light to power your solar cells during the night, energy generation you can use 24/7, very inefficient, but who cares. Just get on with it…

  • Ecco

    By the way, if 50% of the input energy can be emitted as light, this would also be the most efficient light source ever made.

    • Axil Axil

      The light produced is 50% of the OUTPUT energy. The output energy is 200 times the input energy.

      • Ecco

        You’re right. However, it would be a technological breakthrough even if the output energy was equal to the input energy.

        • Axil Axil

          I am sure that there is a huge amount of UV produced. I wonder if Rossi is measuring that invisible light(Black light).

          • DrD

            YES, He should be giving us the Lumens!

    • akupaku

      LEDs can also convert 50% of the input energy to light.

      • DrD

        But the Quark in comparison is 10,000%

  • Bob Greenyer

    My thoughts on how this is made, works and reasoning has been posted to the MFMP Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/

    • Axil Axil

      I cannot see facebook. What is the link to this info on the MFMP website?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I can arrange for it to be posted there in the general blog…

        …here you go

        http://goo.gl/aewkSm

        • Axil Axil

          That would be a grateful kindness to us privacy loving people,

        • DrD

          OR could it be titanium?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, but for reasons relating to reaction products I would shy away from that.

          • DrD

            It’s interesting that he’s admitted that it’s in there but won’t say where due to the patent still being in prep.

      • US_Citizen71

        The post can be read without a facebook account. Just did so in a firefox private window. https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/posts/1199701140060583

        • Axil Axil

          Facebook forces a login at that link for me.

          • US_Citizen71

            It asks but just ignore it by clicking not now, the prompt will drop down below and you can still scroll the window to read.

          • Axil Axil

            Thanks for the support but this is all I see in the login box.
            ———————————————–

            See more of Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project by logging into Facebook

            Message this Page, learn about upcoming events and more. If you don’t have a Facebook account, you can create one to see more of this Page.

            Sign Up Log In

          • US_Citizen71

            right below the two buttons for sign up and login, there should be the two words ‘Not Now’ click on them to hide the lightbox background and make the box drop to the bottom of the screen..

          • Axil Axil

            I had to log in to see that box. You are very kind and patient, I appreciate your kindness. Thanks.

        • akupaku

          QuarkX was first pencil size, now it is match size. What’s next, hair size? Miniaturization of the technology seems to advance fast, what are the limits? Do we soon have microchips with their own integrated power source?

          Another thing I am wondering about is the shape, why a stick? Why not a plate or cube for example? What is the advantage or motivation for a stick shape?

          • Axil Axil

            A stick is easy to make by pulling a molten feedstock to reduce the inside ID and outside OD..

          • Pekka Janhunen

            AR, today, to Joseph Fine: “I will not miniaturize further, I promise.”

          • Bob Greenyer

            Doesn’t want to compete with Jet Energies NANOR

          • The NANOR is like a neutrino. You know it’s there, but it doesn’t affect anything around it.

          • Private Citizen

            Weren’t they going to distribute NANOR’s for testing quite a while back?

          • Bob Greenyer

            They offered us an older generation one to test for $100,000 – needless to say, that was not an option and I suspect that was the point.

          • US_Citizen71

            Ease of manufacturing and pressure handling ability is my guess.

          • oldrolledgold

            Gave me a laugh,thanks.It will either happen or it won’t.I’ll stick around as long as it’s free and not to repetitive,or it happens.

    • akupaku

      Palladium based device? That is one of the rarest metals and very expensive, does this make QuarkX a toy only for the rich and famous?

      I certainly hope that a poor man’s model is also possible, maybe with less impressive specs.

      EDIT: sorry, I mean Platinum, of course but still rare and expensive.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I concluded Platinum.

        The substrate on which MINUTE quantities of platinum rhombic dodecahedron open nano-clusters are formed could be some other metal that is more affordable and that has desirable operating perameters.

        Think of the Minute amount of platinum you have in your catalytic converter, it would use much less than that.

        • akupaku

          Do you foresee that the Platinum is recyclable? Around 95% of Platinum group metals in catalytic converters are recyclable.

        • wpj

          The recycling market market is cornered by the South African banks (could tell you a few “interesting” stories on how the market works…….Friend’s brother used to head up ones of these banks and was very talkative after a few beers!).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Spill the beans wpj (protect the ‘innocent’ though of course)

          • wpj

            It’s a complex global web that starts with the muffler breakers (funded by the bank) who sell the honeycomb (to the bank), which is then recycled (not sure by whom, possibly JM).

            The Platinum is then “given” by the bank to the South Koreans as collateral for loans to be paid back to the bank in “rolled platinum” which then works its way into the Saudi jewellery market……. (SK can only borrow on assets).

            Chap has now left the bank….

      • US_Citizen71

        ecatnews.com has declared that it is closing down once the paid up hosting is done. No further articles will be published from now on. So, they are loosing their home and looking for a new one maybe?

        • sam

          Do you know who ran the blog.

          • US_Citizen71

            Nope. Today is the first time I have been there in years. I saw the news on a Facebook group.

          • A bloke called Paul Story (a Brit I think). One-time cold fusion protagonist, then antagonist, now I suspect doesn’t know what to believe, but is tired of running a pointless ‘troll dungeon’ as it’s been described.

            The early threads – before the trolls took over – probably should be preserved in an archive for historical reasons, if they survive.

          • wpj

            What will MY do now? LENR Forum is going that way with DW and the others, so maybe he will head there.

          • blanco69

            Agreed Peter. Ecat news was the go to place for a consise record of the early days stuff from the 1st hot water test, the tie up, and the subsequent separation with, DGT and all the other multi-protagonist good stuff that happened back then. It’s also a case study in what persistant trolling can acheive.Shame. The original DGT forum chat would also be worth preserving. Ah, those were the days. 5 years of continually chasing the next big thing over the hill. Currently, the next big thing is very big indeed however, the hill, in my view, is Everest.

    • Rene

      Is there enough to consider a replication attempt?

      • Bob Greenyer

        We have already been working with a Danish University to synthesize the Platinum Catalyst – this started many months ago

        The rest is a Piantelli/Rossi/Celani mash-up probably with a high dI/dt drive and HT field.

    • Axil Axil

      Back to the drawing board…

      12) Does the Quark X tested utilize nickel in the charge? Rossi: YES.

      I had speculated that Rossi saw that nickel melted in the Lugano test and has formulated the Quark to take advantage of this discovery.

      • Roland

        To reiterate; what phase is a Ni atom in while undergoing isotopic transmutation?

        Please don’t give up on all your previous concepts just yet Axil.

        • Axil Axil

          No, you misunderstand me. The phase: Back to the drawing board…is directed to Bob Greenyer whose theory assumes that platinum must have replaced nickel in the Quark due to platinum’s high melting point.

          • Roland

            K.

          • Ged

            Nickel tungsten alloys also have very high melting points, and would have both LENR viable metals in one nice package. Actually sounds like potentially the perfect lattice for LENR. Just gotta figure out the ratio.

          • Axil Axil

            This might be true. But Rossi said the the Quark was covered by his patent which means he is using alumina.

            But he might need to update his patent.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The process to create the Rhombic Dodecahedrons is based around Nickel and the lattices so produced contain Nickel.

  • Bob Greenyer

    My initial thoughts on how this is made, works and reasoning has been posted to the MFMP Facebook

    https://goo.gl/ye28fT

    As far as I can see, this is completely consistent with my understanding of the process.

    EDIT: I made a schoolboy error on Palladium… corrected now to

    “Even if the principal element was Palladium, I would expect it [yield] to be approximately 20% electrons, 80% X-Rays”

    • Axil Axil

      I cannot see facebook. What is the link to this info on the MFMP website?

      • Bob Greenyer

        I can arrange for it to be posted there in the general blog…

        …here you go

        http://goo.gl/aewkSm

        • Axil Axil

          That would be a grateful kindness to us privacy loving people,

        • DrD

          OR could it be titanium?

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes, but for reasons relating to reaction products I would shy away from that.

          • DrD

            It’s interesting that he’s admitted that it’s in there but won’t say where due to the patent still being in prep.

      • US_Citizen71

        The post can be read without a facebook account. Just did so in a firefox private window. https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/posts/1199701140060583

        • Axil Axil

          Facebook forces a login at that link for me.

          • US_Citizen71

            It asks but just ignore it by clicking not now, the prompt will drop down below and you can still scroll the window to read.

          • help_lenr

            Does not help.

            I never read Facebook and never will.

            Facebook is not a true public zone.
            This is sort of spam&spy zone.

          • DrD

            Ya and it’s blocked anyway, by our firewall.

          • Axil Axil

            Thanks for the support but this is all I see in the login box.
            ———————————————–

            See more of Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project by logging into Facebook

            Message this Page, learn about upcoming events and more. If you don’t have a Facebook account, you can create one to see more of this Page.

            Sign Up Log In

          • US_Citizen71

            right below the two buttons for sign up and login, there should be the two words ‘Not Now’ click on them to hide the lightbox background and make the box drop to the bottom of the screen..

          • Axil Axil

            I had to log in to see that box. You are very kind and patient, I appreciate your kindness. Thanks.

    • akupaku

      Palladium based device? That is one of the rarest metals and very expensive, does this make QuarkX a toy only for the rich and famous?

      I certainly hope that a poor man’s model is also possible, maybe with less impressive specs.

      EDIT: sorry, I mean Platinum, of course but still rare and expensive.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I concluded Platinum.

        The substrate on which MINUTE quantities of platinum rhombic dodecahedron open nano-clusters are formed could be some other metal that is more affordable and that has desirable operating perameters.

        Think of the Minute amount of platinum you have in your catalytic converter, it would use much less than that.

        And of course, if this works, then we will not need catalytic converters in the future and the platinum in them could be re-cycled to make reactors.

        Buy old cats
        http://scrapcatalyticconverter.com/scrap-catalytic-converter-price-list-2/

        • akupaku

          Do you foresee that the Platinum is recyclable? Around 95% of Platinum group metals in catalytic converters are recyclable.

        • wpj

          The recycling market market is cornered by the South African banks (could tell you a few “interesting” stories on how the market works…….Friend’s brother used to head up ones of these banks and was very talkative after a few beers!).

          • Bob Greenyer

            Spill the beans wpj (protect the ‘innocent’ though of course)

          • wpj

            It’s a complex global web that starts with the muffler breakers (funded by the bank) who sell the honeycomb (to the bank), which is then recycled (not sure by whom, possibly JM).

            The Platinum is then “given” by the bank to the South Koreans as collateral for loans to be paid back to the bank in “rolled platinum” which then works its way into the Saudi jewellery market……. (SK can only borrow on assets).

            Chap has now left the bank….

    • Rene

      Is there enough to consider a replication attempt?

      • Bob Greenyer

        We have already been working with a Danish University to synthesize the Platinum Catalyst – this started many months ago

        The rest is a Piantelli/Rossi/Celani mash-up probably with a high dI/dt drive and HT field.

    • Axil Axil

      Back to the drawing board…

      12) Does the Quark X tested utilize nickel in the charge? Rossi: YES.

      I had speculated that Rossi saw that nickel melted in the Lugano test and has formulated the Quark to take advantage of this discovery.

      • Roland

        To reiterate; what phase is a Ni atom in while undergoing isotopic transmutation?

        Please don’t give up on all your previous concepts just yet Axil.

        • Axil Axil

          No, you misunderstand me. The phase: Back to the drawing board…is directed to Bob Greenyer whose theory assumes that platinum must have replaced nickel in the Quark due to platinum’s high melting point.

          • Roland

            K.

          • Ged

            Nickel tungsten alloys also have very high melting points, and would have both LENR viable metals in one nice package. Actually sounds like potentially the perfect lattice for LENR. Just gotta figure out the ratio.

          • Axil Axil

            This might be true. But Rossi said the the Quark was covered by his patent which means he is using alumina.

            But he might need to update his patent.

      • Bob Greenyer

        The process to create the Rhombic Dodecahedrons is based around Nickel and the lattices so produced contain Nickel.

  • Anon2012_2014

    keV,

    You read a lot into what looks like a sparsely flushed out riddle. Your conjectures might be true, but why speak in riddles like the Oracle or a contemporary fortune teller.

    I say that is unfair to us in Rossi’s audience. You might say that Rossi owes us nothing as we have no business relationship with him. No, it is common decency to not mislead the audience that you are going to have a report and then provide a riddle. It’s bait and switch.

    Rossi should throw us a bone!

  • Ano Nymous

    Just throwing this out there, but when taking a photo of an intense light source, against a highly opaque object with a distinct edge (i.e. a small hole in a tube), with a wide aperture (i.e. for a dark environment), you will often see chromatic aberration due to different refractive indexes for certain wavelengths in the material of the lens. I note this because a very common color dispersion is in the blue and purple visible ranges, and based on the image above, I would have concerns that it is a lens artifact, not a specific wavelength. So I would want to know quite a bit more about how that light was analyzed, and whether spectrographic analysis was done.

    • Roland

      The spectroscopic analysis was done by the second party, Rossi shared that that analysis led directly to further insights into the theoretical foundations of the reaction to such a degree that the image presented was deliberately altered to disguise the specific frequencies that would display.

      Your point about the camera optics are completely germane and a highly skilled photographer could tell you a great deal about the ‘light’, without reference to the spectroscopic data, from his professional instruments and experience alone.

      Meaningfully photographing very high intensity sources is its own art form.

      In this case a technically corrected image is undesirable as Rossi prefers to keep the implied insights to himself, at this point, for tactical purposes.

  • kdk

    Well, that light is entrancing. I’ve been wondering if cold fusion effects were resonant field effects working on a much smaller scale, like quarks or even smaller, than we’ve been thinking. The, presumed, lack of radiation is still strange when you consider that.

    I can see why they would have been excited and confident that they had something with a photo like that in better quality.

  • kdk

    Well, that light is entrancing. I’ve been wondering if cold fusion effects were resonant field effects working on a much smaller scale, like quarks or even smaller, than we’ve been thinking. The, presumed, lack of radiation is still strange when you consider that.

    I can see why they would have been excited and confident that they had something with a photo like that in better quality.

  • AdrianAshfield

    As the report was published on the Hydrofusion web site I wonder if they are the new partner. Remember too Rossi talked about orders for three of the 1 MW plants not so long ago, though the court case may have put those on hold..

    With the Quark operating at 1500C either the fuel composition has changed or it is liquid and gas at that temperature. So much for the crack theory.
    There are not many possibilities for the material of the cylinder as it must be transparent. I suppose high purity Al2O3 might be a possibility. It certainly would be in crystalline form although expensive (melts at >2000C). I like the idea from an earlier comment that half the output from the quark is light and simply covering it turns it into heat. Simple to modulate that way..
    The form and temperature of the Quark seems most attractive for providing the heat for a small turbine

    • Axil Axil

      A diameter of 1 mm does not leave much room for a core. The tube must be a translucent ceramic. A wide spectrum fractal nanoantenna EMF converter could get a 90% light to electric conversion efficiency.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_rectenna

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have made the following edit to include my original thinking on this.

        “There could be a light transparent material between the main reaction matrix and the metal sheath to contain the reaction environment such as sapphire capillary tube:

        http://goo.gl/HXjyDM

    • Buck
      • AdrianAshfield

        No need to get that exotic when the fuel is free. Sorry for the sales blurb – but starting this small.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al8elCF816g

        • Buck

          The video shows a 400W micro gas turbine. I am guessing a 15-20kW LENR sCO2 turbine might be in the same size range . . . it looks to be smaller that existing ICEs for cars.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      “…cylinder as it must be transparent. I suppose high purity Al2=3 might be a possibility.”

      There is also a relatively new commercial material called Perlucor (https://www.ceramtec.com/perlucor/ ). Don’t know its chemical composition, perhaps MgO mainly.

      • DrD

        Yesterday I asked about that but he denied ever having said it.
        but then I found the Q&A, it was from AMOS on 27th Feb.
        It never
        did make sense that you can have 100% light and no heat (only the stars
        do that) so I think he missunderstood Amos Question.

  • AdrianAshfield

    As the report was published on the Hydrofusion web site I wonder if they are the new partner. Remember too Rossi talked about orders for three of the 1 MW plants not so long ago, though the court case may have put those on hold..

    With the Quark operating at 1500C either the fuel composition has changed or it is liquid and gas at that temperature. So much for the crack theory.
    There are not many possibilities for the material of the cylinder as it must be transparent. I suppose high purity Al2O3 might be a possibility. It certainly would be in crystalline form although expensive (melts at >2000C). I like the idea from an earlier comment that half the output from the quark is light and simply covering it turns it into heat. Simple to modulate that way..
    The form and temperature of the Quark seems most attractive for providing the heat for a small turbine

    • Axil Axil

      A diameter of 1 mm does not leave much room for a core. The tube must be a translucent ceramic. A wide spectrum fractal nanoantenna EMF converter could get a 90% light to electric conversion efficiency.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_rectenna

      • Bob Greenyer

        I have made the following edit to include my original thinking on this.

        “There could be a light transparent material between the main reaction matrix and the metal sheath to contain the reaction environment such as sapphire capillary tube:

        http://goo.gl/HXjyDM

    • lkelemen

      http://hydrofusion.com/ doesn’t have this news. ecat.com has

    • Buck

      I can only wonder about the size of a 15-20kW supercritical co2 turbine given the following image . . .

      http://breakingenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/11/dodge-sco23.jpg

      • AdrianAshfield

        No need to get that exotic when the fuel is free. Sorry for the sales blurb – but starting this small.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al8elCF816g

        • Buck

          The video shows a 400W micro gas turbine. I am guessing a 15-20kW LENR sCO2 turbine might be in the same size range . . . it looks to be smaller than existing ICEs for cars. But, I’m not an engineer . . . just a LENR dreamer.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      “…cylinder as it must be transparent. I suppose high purity Al2=3 might be a possibility.”

      There is also a relatively new commercial material called Perlucor (https://www.ceramtec.com/perlucor/ ). Don’t know its chemical composition, perhaps MgO mainly.

  • MLTC

    Extremely impressive! 😀

  • NCY

    I think that the reported size is the inside diameter of the reaction chamber, rather than the outer dimensions of some kind of wire/tube.

    • Bob Greenyer

      But as I detail in my thoughts, it is entirely possible to achieve the whole reactor in a 1mm OD Saint Gobain sapphire capillary tube with a core surface modified platinum wire reaction matrix base.

  • Axil Axil

    Andrea Rossi

    June 14, 2016 at 10:24 AM

    Vitaly and Irina Uzikov:

    Thank you, very kind: from your experience of nuclear scientists of the Russian School, your opinion is important.

    Did you notice the blue light ? If our measurement also related to it will be confirmed, the theoretical issue is close to be resolved.

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.
    =========================================

    How can blue light reveal the theory behind the LENR reaction? Does Dr, Cook have a blue light trick in this nuclear theory bag?

    Is Rossi coming around to Axil’s nanoplasmonic theory? Maybe Rossi has come over to see the black light of the hydrino theory.

    It sounds like Rossi is anxious to reveal his new ideas on LENR theory. Can someone pry that theory out of Rossi?

    • DrD

      Blue light could be Cherenkov (created in the surrounding cooling fluid) which would support the theory that it’s nuclear in origin but I don’t really believe that it can be that as why would he be enthusiastic about it proving something most of us take forgranted.
      Should we ask him? Probably won’t get an answer.

  • Rene

    “4- to provide protection not just to the eyes”
    Remember the halo of blue is outside the peephole. It’s medium energy, maybe 100Kev, photons exciting the air molecules. Be happy for the shielding and that so little is needed.

    • Axil Axil

      Does the Quark produce x-rays?

      • Rene

        Maybe, if the reaction is similar to the e-cat. That is presumed to generate EUV -> to soft xray which is downshifted to heat. I’m just trying to think of the possible pathways that exiting a peephole would generate a blue halo. Xrays don’t couple strongly to air. Beta particles might, What else?

        • Axil Axil

          I have a feeling that there are three separate sources for the EMF produced by the Quark.

          1 – blue light and above…. nanoplasmonic
          2 – infrared… Hawking radiation
          3 – RF magnetic interference produced by NMR active elements.

          The COP is higher than Rossi thinks because he is not accounting for all the EMF frequencies that are coming off the Quark. RF for example.

          • Roland

            A couple of questions occur to me, ones that might get answered if the answers don’t reveal too much:

            What is the duration between supplying power to the device and the onset of the LNR reaction?

            Does the given range of heat output, 0-100%, imply that the reaction output can be fully modulated over this entire range?

          • Ted-Z

            I think that pulses of 50 – 60 Hz of low power (but with a momentary high voltage) are used to control the Quark-X. There is no Platinum in the device just porous Tungsten on the outside, semi-isolating ceramic interlayer and a nickel-alloy core in the atmosphere of gaseous hydrogen. The output is a DC with some spikes from the excitation, so it can not be used directly to power another Quark-X. This seems to me to be the most likely option.

          • Roland

            I’d tend to agree that the direct electrical output from the Quark is so contaminated (some stuff is extraordinarily difficult to condition out) in a particular fashion that the effort to cycle it back to the input side, or to another Quark, is a pointless exercise when you could start with an already conditioned source.

            I’m still inclined towards the stimulation of the Quark with very specific resonant EM frequencies, hence the query about the duration between power on and a reaction response.

            I’m intrigued by a report that was once referenced on the Sifferkoll site (perhaps he could help with this) where part of the ELFORESK team built an apparatus to test the idea that heat was a very indirect method to prod a LENR reaction into being.

            From memory; they had arrived at a theoretical model that implied that the reaction could be stimulated by EM fields alone, they built an apparatus to test this, threw the on switch and observed that the apparatus was destroyed in seconds when the reaction immediately went exponential.

            The article concluded with the experimenters intention to build and test version 2.0.

          • giovanniontheweb

            with this power density it could upgrade nuclear plants by replacing the uranium rods the rest of intallation and distribution wouldn’t change

          • OT: ecatnews.com is calling it quits.

          • Timar

            Better prepare for an army of trolls looking for a new home…

          • help_lenr

            I am afraid this is going to happen.

          • Pweet

            I guess they were all overwhelmed by the shear magnitude of this latest technical revelation. A COP of 200 no less. That’s equally as good as the claim for the original ecat so although it’s no better than the original, it’s good to know at least we’re not going backwards. Although it would be nice to have some confirmation by way of real figures from an independent third party.

          • DrD

            So I wonder what will be the reaction when he refines it into a product with a COP of >1000.

          • Ged

            At that point it is a rounding error’s throw from infinity 😉

          • Bob Greenyer

            Similar orders of magnitude (though at different power levels) have been claimed for NANORs and at different to no levels of control for the PdD system.

          • Seems an odd time to bail. A Rossi perp walk, which they all clearly feel is imminent, would have been the party of the century over there.

          • Ged

            They probably jumped the shark into oblivion with all the threats and libel going on over there.

          • Ted-Z

            The EM frequency might be the frequency of NMR or Quadrupole Nuclei-Resonance of Nickel or Lithium (or both), under the magnetic field present in the vicinity of the reactor. The resonance frequency would be in the mega-Hertz range. Compared to ELFORESK, Quark-X is not melting as the higher harmonics are only a small fraction of the 0.5 W, 50-60 MHz, stimulating spikes. The higher harmonics are difficult to control and reproduce, which might be the reason for the difficulties in reproducing the LENR effect. The ELFORESK experiment should be repeated with very-low-power excitation; this may be the key to the LENR+ and, indeed, this seems to be a logical conclusion that the EM of the resonant frequency might be the Rossi’s secret sauce. My additional predictions:
            (1) Palladium is not used. (2) Lithium is a alloyed with Nickel and Tungsten to make the core of the Quark-X. (3) Porous tungsten is the outer shell of the Quark-X. (4) The Quark-X is enclosed in a Tungsten tube filled with hydrogen.

          • bfast

            You seem to have lots more details than I see published. Where do you get your detailed information?

          • Ted-Z

            The resonance frequency might be from the higher harmonics of 50 – 60 Hz. Resonance frequencies are important in Quark-X. AR confirmed no Platinum in Quark-X, so my guessing is so far partly confirmed. To get the detail I just use logic and a bit of an intuitive method based on advanced psychology. I studied some psychology as well as engineering. My method is 95% correct, so it is a very powerful method, compared to 50% certainty from a regular guess. I estimated the COP from the 1 MW plant to be 75, which is quite likely to be more accurate than the COP of “over 50”.

          • kenko1

            yawn….sniffle……sniffle….belch…nothin 2 sea hear…..moo v along…anudder rossi sez.

          • Steve Swatman

            yawn….sniffle……sniffle….belch…nothin 2 sea hear…..moo v along…anudder troll.

          • Roland

            Really upping their game in the home stretch…

          • Steve Swatman

            Upping the game but failing miserably.

          • kenko1

            I haven’t seen conclusive evidence anywhere, yet. Although I want to believe. My gut instincts say it will be IH 2.0 with Rossi and his newfound pardner. Quark is Hot Cat 2.0…milked and Hot Cat is E- cat 2.0…milked. Please, Mr. Rossi, please prove me wrong before I die.

          • Because the new partner will be incapable of determining if 200 times more energy is coming out of the QuarkX than put into it?

            Is the new partner The Church of Scientology?

          • Steve Swatman

            I dont understand why you would require any more proof than Mr Rossi gave to Cherokee/IH/the technicians and engineers, lugano and the year long test of the e-cat, it all certainly looks very professionally built, the people who worked on it and monitored it for 1yr certainly seem to be quite well suited to the job and well educated and trained, and not one of them has come forward and claimed that the e-cat does not work or that the quark is not a revolution.

            I kinda think that I know people quite well, and I understand that if a professional believes a situation is a scam he will come out and say so, because his/her reputation is at stake. None of the people concerned with this whole project has even insinuated such, even IH have only claimed “unsubstantiated” which can mean a myriad of things depending on the lawyers interpretation.

            But hey, I am not here to change anyones mind or even argue a point, I am here because the whole situation is interesting and I like to see the little guy come through.

          • wpj

            He mentioned that the size reduction was in order for it to turn on and off as required rather than have a several hour heating period beforehand, as per the 1MW plant.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Perhaps just to make the question more transparent to a larger number of readers.

          • Axil Axil

            The Reduced size of the Quark is a safety feature. If the micro quark melts down, the amount of energy produce os manageably small. For example during a meltdown, If the power produced by the Quark increases by a factor of 10, only a 1000 watts must be continued.

            That is compared to a large format reactor whose power output is 250 kilowatts. During a meltdown of the large reactor the power produced would reach 2.5 megawatts.

            Rossi might not want all the Quarks wired together to avoid a cascade meltdown where the meltdown spreads from one micro reactor to another like a wildfire.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Also it provides opportunity for redundancy and fault tolerance by having say 13 units in a device designed to deliver the power from 10, if 1 was to fail in a power delivery period, a backup could be electronically switched in.

            Furthermore – it enables load matching. 1 – 10 units could be operated and controlled to yield more or less of a desired output energy form.

          • Axil Axil

            Each Quark reactor would need to be wired into the control box separately. This increases the complication of the control box s great deal. Some sort of wiring scheme must be invented that keeps the connectivity problems to a minimum. Maybe Rossi’s partner can help with that design,

            IMHO, that wiring plan would be a difficult problem. A 1 MW plant would require a over a 1000 Quarks reactors. That is a lot of wiring,

          • Karl Venter

            Hi Axil

            could it need only stimulation ( maybe Rf/IR) to keep it operating other than physical wiring 40 mA at 12V is very small dc but RF?

          • Axil Axil

            This reactor needs a complicated waveform signal for activation. The EMF interference would be intense, the noize would be heavy. Never say never but it would be difficult to avoid direct wiring. There is also a requirement for a power feed of .5 to 1 watt.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Could be connected on a grid basis or common plates and relays – but these are engineering issues. Certainly there are many approaches to delivering connection and control over multiple functional units.

            As Karl says, drive could be controlled delivery of RF/MW.

            1 guy made this.

            https://youtu.be/73h4cjTeX44

            He added the LEDs so you could monitor the execution of code.

            The control array and wiring for 1000 reactors would be trivial by comparison.

          • Axil Axil

            I contend that the environment around the Quark Micro Reactor is problematic for control. Although it is small, the Quark is a nuclear reactor.

            1 – there is interference from intense RF coming from the reactor.

            2 – there is a huge amounts of electrostatic charge accumulation emanating from the reactor.

            3 – There is muons and other subatomic particles being produced and decaying producing electons.

            3a – excess electrons are being collected by as yet to be identified technologies,

            4 – there is a massive amount of magnetic fields being generated.

            5 – there are XUV and X-rays being produced.

            6 – there are muon catalyzed fusion going on

            In conclusion, Rossi states as follows:

            You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection? Rossi: to provide protection not just to the eyes

          • Bob Greenyer

            What I have observed in experiments we have conducted would support 5 and 3a.

            I have not had any time with the claimed device, so I could not comment on the assertion 1, 2, 3 (muons), 4 or 6.

            Rossi’s statement would be true if only considering 5 and 3a.

          • DrD

            It certainly is.
            Actually it’s atleast 10,000.
            Nevertheless, imagine how many pixels are being independantly controlled right in front you as you read this.
            Of course they don’t see 1500 degC.

          • Gerard McEk

            I believe that AR main reason to downscale the power/size is because of the power controllability. He wants to make a jet with it and you must be able to control the jet power.

          • INVENTOR INVENTED

            I think its because he’s in a hurry to sell a working product to show the world.So he’s selling a stripped down version that’s cheap.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized-air_glow

          Cathode rays (= electron beams) are listed as a possible trigger.

          • Rene

            hence beta.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes.

    • Ged

      For anyone interested in photo forensics, here is the ELA analysis of the QuarkX photo.

      http://s31.postimg.org/bvva4qz7f/quark_digest.png

      This analysis finds any photo manipulation, as changes to a picture will change the rate of error propagation. I can’t see any such changes in this photo. But what one can see, which ELA brings out, is the “waveform” or “bars” from interference of the CCD detector. The sensor is not having a good day taking this picture. But, the takeaway is that the blue glow and everything else in the image are not manipulated, and nothing (big at least) was brushed out of the picture.

      The obscuring pixelation is at least in part from saving the image at 30% quality using the Adobe “Ducky” encoder, and then saving it again as a jpg, at least one more time (but could be more!), at 63% quality.

      This the most meta info I can extract from the image. It’s been scrubbed quite thoroughly.

      Edit: If one looks carefully, one can see that the QuarkX is on a saw horse style stand with plenty of space around it, but that’s all I can make out.

  • Rene

    “4- to provide protection not just to the eyes”
    Remember the halo of blue is outside the peephole. It’s medium energy, maybe 100Kev, photons (or beta/electrons) exciting the air molecules. Be happy for the shielding and that so little is needed.

    • Axil Axil

      Does the Quark produce x-rays?

      • Rene

        Maybe, if the reaction is similar to the e-cat. That is presumed to generate EUV -> to soft xray which is downshifted to heat. I’m just trying to think of the possible pathways that exiting a peephole would generate a blue halo. Xrays don’t couple strongly to air. Beta particles might, What else?

        • Axil Axil

          I have a feeling that there are three separate sources for the EMF produced by the Quark.

          1 – blue light and above…. nanoplasmonic
          2 – infrared… Hawking radiation
          3 – RF magnetic interference produced by NMR active elements.

          The COP is higher than Rossi thinks because he is not accounting for all the EMF frequencies that are coming off the Quark. RF for example.

        • Andreas Moraitis

          See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized-air_glow

          Cathode rays (= electron beams) are listed as a possible trigger.

          • Rene

            hence beta.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Yes.

    • Ged

      For anyone interested in photo forensics, here is the ELA analysis of the QuarkX photo.

      http://s31.postimg.org/bvva4qz7f/quark_digest.png

      This analysis finds any photo manipulation, as changes to a picture will change the rate of error propagation. I can’t see any such changes in this photo. But what one can see, which ELA brings out, is the “waveform” or “bars” from interference of the CCD detector. The sensor is not having a good day taking this picture. But, the takeaway is that the blue glow and everything else in the image are not manipulated, and nothing (big at least) was brushed out of the picture according to ELA.

      The obscuring pixelation is at least in part from saving the image at 30% quality using the Adobe “Ducky” encoder, and then saving it again as a jpg, at least one more time (but could be more!), at 63% quality.

      This is the most meta info I can extract from the image. It’s been scrubbed quite thoroughly.

      Edit: If one looks carefully, one can see that the QuarkX is on a saw horse style stand with plenty of space around it, but that’s all I can make out.

  • ScienceFan

    The heat dominating the output and the blue light being a (relatively) small fraction of output energy here may be, as Rossi seems to suggest, the biggest clue to what is happening here.

    As a ‘ScienceFan’, but not an actual practicing scientist, I may be way off, but it seems to me that the Cherenkov radiation (in this case, obviously the blue light) is more than just what we’re seeing. The Cherenkov radiation is likely outputting mostly infrared. With the tubes being insulated and probably infrared reflective, this would be a major source of heat. Let me explain:

    The nickel-lithium-hydrogen mix is first heated to some critical temperature. Once at the critical temp, it has been confirmed from a few sources that the samples are then bathed in EM frequencies (unsure exactly what frequencies), and that after this the E-Cat 1/X/QuarkX start producing excess heat while still requiring some trickle of outside power input. In this case the continuing EM frequency input is rated at 0.5W.

    If the internal environment of the nickel-lithium-hydrogen medium has an abnormally low phase velocity and speed of light propagation (as would be expected from something solid that would normally be completely opaque, but in this case is powdered), then any charged particles (such as hydrogen or electrons) forced to resonate with the EM input will begin to produce Cherenkov radiation. Pulled straight from Wikipedia:

    “Cherenkov radiation results when a charged particle, most commonly an electron, travels through a dielectric (electrically polarizable) medium with a speed greater than that at which light propagates in the same medium. Moreover, the velocity that must be exceeded is the phase velocity of light rather than the group velocity of light.” …
    “The frequency spectrum of Cherenkov radiation by a particle is given by the Frank–Tamm formula. Unlike fluorescence or emission spectra that have characteristic spectral peaks, Cherenkov radiation is continuous.” …
    “At X-ray frequencies, the refractive index becomes less than unity (note that in media the phase velocity may exceed c without violating relativity) and hence no X-ray emission (or shorter wavelength emissions such as gamma rays) would be observed.” (which explains why we don’t normally see harmful radiation from the E-Cats)

    This would seem to work with nickel since nickel is ferromagnetic and fast moving charged particles won’t be able to move through it as quickly due to magnetics. (I’m reminded of the old demonstration of a magnet passing through a copper pipe and it being forced to slow down) If the phase velocity of the E-Cat internal medium is so low that the hydrogen ions can be accelerated faster, it would (in theory) produce a range of infrared radiation where the cos(theta)=1/(nbeta) condition is still satisfied. If the infrared is absorbed by the internal medium, this in turn would heat the system, producing some of the excess heat and sustaining the reaction while reducing input heat. At higher temperatures, you will also have higher numbers of free electrons and it produces the more commonly seen visible light and UV Cherenkov radiation with electrons travelling at much higher speeds than the hydrogen ions.

    With a surplus of hydrogen ions or electrons being stimulated and becoming available to the medium, they can (in theory) be harvested for electricity. The hydrogen ions being stimulated to moving fast enough compared to the non-resonating lithium and nickel leads to it also interacting with the other elements and producing nuclear fusion, changing the isotopes of the materials and producing more excess heat, of course.

    If the EM frequencies are shut off, the system slows in producing the Cherenkov radiation as the internal hydrogen ions slow down. This quickly reduces the LENR effects, but the IR continues for a short while afterward and maintains the temperature while being produced at longer and longer wavelengths until the ions slow past the cos(theta)=1/(nbeta) cut-off and can no longer keep that temperature anymore. At that point the whole system shuts down and temps drop, but reapplying the heat and EM input will bring it right back up to energy production, because nothing else about the system has changed. If, in the case of many reproduction attempts, the temperature itself is being maintained by a heater instead of mainly excess heat, it will produce only trace amounts of excess heat when lacking the necessary amounts of EM input and the right balance of materials for the internal phase velocity.

    The main things to check in this scenario would be how the internal phase velocity of the E-Cat-type reproductions change as it is heated/EM stimulated, the hydrogen pressure increases and then decreases, the differences that different mixtures of the nickel powder, lithium aluminum hydride and lithium hydride have on the internals of the system, and what EM frequencies resonate with hydrogen ions at different pressures.

    This is all hypothetical of course. It could be that the resonance of the hydrogen is directly producing the IR / heat without Cherenkov radiation. I’ve learned so much more about physical sciences since I started following LENR developments, but there’s so much more still left to learn! 🙂

    • Rene

      It doesn’t have to be Cherenkov radiation. It could be beta coming out of the peephole. That will ionize the nitrogen in the air into a nice blue light. Lots of beta also generates electrical current.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        If it ionises air, it should smell ozone and also produce some nitrogen oxides. In fact, a 1500C+ surface in contact with air might do that even without ionisation, to some extent.

  • Chapman

    The river must be running high today, cause something has sure as heck flushed all the trolls from under the bridges and they are running amok!

    • US_Citizen71

      ecatnews.com has declared that it is closing down once the paid up hosting is done. No further articles will be published from now on. So, they are loosing their home and looking for a new one maybe?

      • Chapman

        HA! That would explain a lot!

      • sam

        Do you know who ran the blog.

        • US_Citizen71

          Nope. Today is the first time I have been there in years. I saw the news on a Facebook group.

        • A bloke called Paul Story (a Brit I think). One-time cold fusion protagonist, then antagonist, now I suspect isn’t sure what to believe, but is tired of running a pointless ‘troll dungeon’ as it’s been described (among other things).

          The early threads – before the trolls took over – probably should be preserved in an archive for historical reasons, if they survive.

          • wpj

            What will MY do now? LENR Forum is going that way with DW and the others, so maybe he will head there.

          • blanco69

            Agreed Peter. Ecat news was the go to place for a consise record of the early days stuff from the 1st hot water test, the tie up, and the subsequent separation with, DGT and all the other multi-protagonist good stuff that happened back then. It’s also a case study in what persistant trolling can acheive.Shame. The original DGT forum chat would also be worth preserving. Ah, those were the days. 5 years of continually chasing the next big thing over the hill. Currently, the next big thing is very big indeed however, the hill, in my view, is Everest.

  • Buck

    How about the elephant in the middle of the room . . . what does this do to Rossi’s complaint against IH/Darden and IH/Darden’s “substantiate” defense?

    I don’t think this bit of news is making Darden or Jones-Day or APCO happy . . . especially as IH/Darden has sufficient direct experience to make a judgment about the truth of these QuarkX results.

    • Bob Greenyer

      IF this is real, when compared with the previous generation of technology is like the difference between the original IBM PC and a modern smart phone coupled to the internet, one was a revolution for business yes, the other is a total revolution for humanity, if it is allowed to be.

      These are extraordinary claims, there is no doubt.

      • Buck

        Like you, I can only guess about the claims. But I am strongly biased towards acceptance of Rossi’s details about the COP in the legal complaint and todays QuarkX report.

        IMO, what is important is that IH/Darden has the experience to assess the material truth of these mind boggling claims.

      • Gerard McEk

        Dear Andrea,

        Your revelation of the QuarkX details has obviously lead to a lot of
        speculation as of how it might work and also to many wrong assumptions,
        because nobody knows exactly how it works, except you. I hope you will
        forgive for us asking you ‘stupid’ questions, based on wrong
        assumptions. Just to check some assumptions, I hope you can confirm
        these for us:

        1. Yes, I have a new Partner in Europe with whom I am going to produce QuarkX in the future.
        “yes, I have a Partner” (Good! But he didn’t confirm Europe or production)
        2. QuarkX’s can be switched on and off in seconds.
        “It will” (Good, it makes it suitable for many purposes)
        3. QuarkX’s are very suitable for jets.
        “Yes” (Good! No steam required.)
        4. The tested 1x30mm Quarks will work for months on one charge.
        “Yes” (I think it is less than a year, but still an amazing Energy content)
        5. QuarkX’s cannot be recharged.
        “Wrong” (I would need three reading glasses for doing that ;-))
        6. QuarkX’s outperform E-cats in many aspects
        “Maybe” (Maybe also the E-cat can be improved with the new knowledge?)
        7. QuarkX’s differ so much from E-cats that they can hardly be compared and require new patents.
        “the work on patents is dynamic, not static” (I had hoped this question would give some insight on why IH did not want to pay the 89M$. If the QuarkX is so much different than the Ecat for which they had the IP and AR wouldn’t share that with them, that may be the reason. This answer does not bring us further).
        Thank you for answering our questions.

        • DrD

          Steam could still be one of many options for the jet engine.

    • Roland

      The rigging is shredded, the deck crew are ghosts and water is pouring in through the holes at the water line…

  • Buck

    How about the elephant in the middle of the room . . . what does this do to Rossi’s complaint against IH/Darden and IH/Darden’s “substantiate” defense?

    I don’t think this bit of news is making Darden or Jones-Day or APCO happy . . . especially as IH/Darden probably has sufficient direct experience to make a judgment about the truth of these QuarkX results.

    • Bob Greenyer

      IF this is real, when compared with the previous generation of technology, it is like the difference between the original IBM PC and a modern affordable smart phone coupled to the internet, one was a revolution for business yes, the other is a total revolution for humanity, if it is allowed to be.

      That these are extraordinary claims, there is no doubt.

      • Buck

        Like you, I can only guess about the claims. But I am strongly biased towards acceptance of Rossi’s details about the COP in the legal complaint and todays QuarkX report.

        IMO, what is important is that IH/Darden has the experience to assess the material truth of these mind boggling claims . . . a LENR reactor the size of a match stick

    • Roland

      The rigging is shredded, the deck crew are ghosts and water is pouring in through the holes at the water line…

      • Buck

        Ahhrrr . . . and thar infern’l mermaids are hungry!

  • Roland

    A couple of questions occur to me, ones that might get answered if the answers don’t reveal too much:

    What is the duration between supplying power to the device and the onset of the LNR reaction?

    Does the given range of heat output, 0-100%, imply that the reaction output can be fully modulated over this entire range?

    • Ted-Z

      I think that pulses of 50 – 60 Hz of low power (but with a momentary high voltage) are used to control the Quark-X. There is no Platinum in the device just porous Tungsten on the outside, semi-isolating ceramic interlayer and a nickel-alloy core in the atmosphere of gaseous hydrogen. The output is a DC with some spikes from the excitation, so it can not be used directly to power another Quark-X. This seems to me to be the most likely option.

      • Roland

        I’d tend to agree that the direct electrical output from the Quark is so contaminated (some stuff is extraordinarily difficult to condition out) in a particular fashion that the effort to cycle it back to the input side, or to another Quark, is a pointless exercise when you could start with an already conditioned source.

        I’m still inclined towards the stimulation of the Quark with very specific resonant EM frequencies, hence the query about the duration between power on and a reaction response.

        I’m intrigued by a report that was once referenced on the Sifferkoll site (perhaps he could help with this) where part of the ELFORESK team built an apparatus to test the idea that heat was a very indirect method to prod a LENR reaction into being.

        From memory; they had arrived at a theoretical model that implied that the reaction could be stimulated by EM fields alone, they built an apparatus to test this, threw the on switch and observed that the apparatus was destroyed in seconds when the reaction immediately went exponential.

        The article concluded with the experimenters intention to build and test version 2.0.

        • Ted-Z

          The EM frequency might be the frequency of NMR or Quadrupole Nuclei-Resonance of Nickel or Lithium (or both), under the magnetic field present in the vicinity of the reactor. The resonance frequency would be in the mega-Hertz range. Compared to ELFORESK, Quark-X is not melting as the higher harmonics are only a small fraction of the 0.5 W, 50-60 MHz, stimulating spikes. The higher harmonics are difficult to control and reproduce, which might be the reason for the difficulties in reproducing the LENR effect. The ELFORESK experiment should be repeated with very-low-power excitation; this may be the key to the LENR+ and, indeed, this seems to be a logical conclusion that the EM of the resonant frequency might be the Rossi’s secret sauce. My additional predictions:
          (1) Palladium is not used. (2) Lithium is a alloyed with Nickel and Tungsten to make the core of the Quark-X. (3) Porous tungsten is the outer shell of the Quark-X. (4) The Quark-X is enclosed in a Tungsten tube filled with hydrogen.

      • bfast

        You seem to have lots more details than I see published. Where do you get your detailed information?

        • Ted-Z

          The resonance frequency might be from the higher harmonics of 50 – 60 Hz. Resonance frequencies are important in Quark-X. AR confirmed no Platinum in Quark-X, so my guessing is so far partly confirmed. To get the detail I just use logic and a bit of an intuitive method based on advanced psychology. I studied some psychology as well as engineering. My method is 95% correct, so it is a very powerful method, compared to 50% certainty from a regular guess. I estimated the COP from the 1 MW plant to be 75, which is quite likely to be more accurate than the COP of “over 50”.

    • wpj

      He mentioned that the size reduction was in order for it to turn on and off as required rather than have a several hour heating period beforehand, as per the 1MW plant.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Just because I don’t like looking at unnecessarily noisy images.

    • Ged

      I tried a vector transformation, but the quality is so pixelated that too much is lost even doing that. Can’t see any of the background. But it does give a very interesting look at the shape of the light.

      Kinda looks like that triangle Arc reactor from the second Iron Man movie in this picture, eh?

      • Roland

        Evocative yet deliberately uninformative, as advertised.

      • Bob Greenyer

        As far as I can see there was a stretched noise overlay and saturation shifting. I am assuming that the camera exposure is shot by the light intensity in my interpretation here.

        I used some band filtering, followed by color operations.

        • Ged

          I wish there was some way to salvage the background, but between the CCD interference noise and the ultralow quality sequential savings, I can’t think of a way. Someone was quite skilled at this art of killing the image just enough we can’t recover it but can still make something out.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The point of the photo is in the centre of the frame, and the colour gives important information potentially about the nature of the light.

          • Roland

            It is the exact frequency that would provide insight, by eliminating a large number of potential reaction paths, which is why that information deliberately can’t be derived from the image provided.

          • MasterBlaster7

            It’s ok guys. I put it through an NSA quantum-neural googleplexer and came up with this. I think that is Rossi on the left.

          • Bob Greenyer

            for sure, but the aura effect is telling.

    • Patrick Ellul

      It was actually a photo of a photo. you could see the crease in the paper as well as the slant on the left.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I actually think it was a photo of an inkjet print – but I have spent 1000s of hours making useful textures for 3D animations over the years from a wide range of terrible sources.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Just because I don’t like looking at unnecessarily noisy images.

    • Ged

      I tried a vector transformation, but the quality is so pixelated that too much is lost even doing that. Can’t see any of the background. But it does give a very interesting look at the shape of the light.

      Kinda looks like that triangle Arc reactor from the second Iron Man movie in this picture, eh?

      • Roland

        Evocative yet deliberately uninformative, as advertised.

      • Bob Greenyer

        As far as I can see there was a stretched noise overlay and saturation shifting. I am assuming that the camera exposure is over due to the light intensity in my interpretation here.

        I used some band filtering, followed by color operations.

        • Ged

          I wish there was some way to salvage the background, but between the CCD interference noise and the ultralow quality sequential savings, I can’t think of a way. Someone was quite skilled at this art of killing the image just enough we can’t recover it but can still make something out.

          • Bob Greenyer

            The point of the photo is in the centre of the frame, and the colour gives important information potentially about the nature of the light.

          • Roland

            It is the exact frequency that would provide insight, by eliminating a large number of potential reaction paths, which is why that information deliberately can’t be derived from the image provided.

          • MasterBlaster7

            It’s ok guys. I put it through an NSA quantum-neural googleplexer and came up with this. I think that is Rossi on the left.

          • Bob Greenyer

            for sure, but the aura effect is telling.

    • Patrick Ellul

      It was actually a photo of a photo. you could see the crease in the paper as well as the slant on the left.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I actually think it was a photo of an inkjet print – but I have spent 1000s of hours making useful textures for 3D animations over the years from a wide range of terrible sources.

  • Bob Greenyer

    And for a bit of fun

  • Bob Greenyer

    And for a bit of fun

  • Bob Greenyer

    And for synchronicity, this is the Quantum Heat CIC logo I drew back in 2012

  • Bob Greenyer

    And for synchronicity, this is the Quantum Heat CIC logo I drew back in 2012

  • sam

    A.R. Said that him and his team and the
    partner celebrated after the measurements .
    So Cheers to all QUARK X followers.

    • SD

      I wonder if they hit the club!

  • sam

    A.R. Said that him and his team and the
    partner celebrated after the measurements .
    So Cheers to all QUARK X followers.

    • SD

      I wonder if they hit the club!

  • bfast

    Lets see, 1 inch long, diameter less than the led of a pencil, 10w electricity out, 90w of heat to dissipate. This thing will run a cell phone like nothin’.

    With 10 watts of electricity out, and 0.5 watts input power (thats COP of 20 for electricity) it’s gotta be a shoe in to close the loop. Once the loop is closed its gotta take an idiot to deny that the darn thing works.

    A little heat harvesting (Seebeck effect) and a little light harvesting (solar panel), and the amount of electricity out, should be up, the amount of waste heat, down.

    • Axil Axil

      The COP for the Quark does not include the RF that is being produced or the muons and electrons. The Real COP must be huge.

      We need to understand that the electrons that the Quark produces are created from nuclear energy, for example 512 MeV

    • Ophelia Rump

      Include an absorbtion refrigeration system, and you have heating cooling refrigeration light and electricity from one device.

      • Appleby

        I see the price of RV refrigerators going up….nice idea

    • Pavlos Sirinides

      Wow, chain 100 together and you get a KW. Ok, that’s probably way too simplistic but it’s not hard to imagine small 1KW systems.

      • bfast

        100 gets 1 KW of electricity, but 10 KW of heat. If you want it as a power generator, you’ve got to do something with all that heat.

        The size of your core could be about 10 inches long, and less than the diameter of a pencil. The size of the necessary cooling system, somewhat more.

        BTW, a car engine is about 30% efficient, so for every KW of output power, you have to dissipate 2KW in heat. 10KW heat dissipation is about equivalent to the heat dissipation of a 3 or 4 horse motor. Most lawn mowers are dissipating that much heat with cooling fins.

        • wpj

          That’s what is called CHP- Combined Heat and Power. We used to have one at a production facility and it paid the capital cost back in 18 months (but then again, we were burning waste solvents from the plant)

        • Rene

          It would be a great domestic power and heating system. 1KW continuous would be 24KWh per day. That would cover most people’s domestic power consumption (the U.S. average is 30KWh/day). The generated heat, 10KW, would heat most smaller well-insulated homes nicely, keep the domestic hot water and hot tub nicely piping hot. So, someday some years from now?

    • Rene

      I am not so sure about 90W of heat dissipating in the form factor of a cellphone. I wonder how long can anyone hold it before it burns their hand? I guess it could be a separate charger like on of those extra battery systems except it has a lot of fins.

  • bfast

    Lets see, 1 inch long, diameter less than the led of a pencil, 10w electricity out, 90w of heat to dissipate. This thing will run a cell phone like nothin’.

    With 10 watts of electricity out, and 0.5 watts input power (thats COP of 20 for electricity) it’s gotta be a shoe in to close the loop. Once the loop is closed its gotta take an idiot to deny that the darn thing works.

    A little heat harvesting (Seebeck effect) and a little light harvesting (solar panel), and the amount of electricity out, should be up, the amount of waste heat, down.

    • Axil Axil

      The COP for the Quark does not include the RF that is being produced or the muons and electrons. The Real COP must be huge.

      We need to understand that the electrons that the Quark produces are created from nuclear energy, for example 512 MeV

    • Ophelia Rump

      Include an absorbtion refrigeration system, and you have heating cooling refrigeration light and electricity from one device.

      • Appleby

        I see the price of RV refrigerators going up….nice idea

    • Pavlos Sirinides

      Wow, chain 100 together and you get a KW. Ok, that’s probably way too simplistic but it’s not hard to imagine small 1KW systems.

      • bfast

        100 gets 1 KW of electricity, but 10 KW of heat. If you want it as a power generator, you’ve got to do something with all that heat.

        The size of your core could be about 10 inches long, and less than the diameter of a pencil. The size of the necessary cooling system, somewhat more.

        BTW, a car engine is about 30% efficient, so for every KW of output power, you have to dissipate 2KW in heat. 10KW heat dissipation is about equivalent to the heat dissipation of a 3 or 4 horse motor. Most lawn mowers are dissipating that much heat with cooling fins.

        • wpj

          That’s what is called CHP- Combined Heat and Power. We used to have one at a production facility and it paid the capital cost back in 18 months (but then again, we were burning waste solvents from the plant)

        • Rene

          It would be a great domestic power and heating system. 1KW continuous would be 24KWh per day. That would cover most people’s domestic power consumption (the U.S. average is 30KWh/day). The generated heat, 10KW, would heat most smaller well-insulated homes nicely, keep the domestic hot water and hot tub nicely piping hot. So, someday some years from now?

        • Pavlos Sirinides

          That’s still a big win for certain applications like home heating/power.

    • Rene

      I am not so sure about 90W of heat dissipating in the form factor of a cellphone. I wonder how long can anyone hold it before it burns their hand? I guess it could be a separate charger like on of those extra battery systems except it has a lot of fins.

  • kdk

    I forget, has he ever mentioned how long a QuarkX charge lasts before it needs to be replaced?

  • kdk

    I forget, has he ever mentioned how long a QuarkX charge lasts before it needs to be replaced?

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I am repeatedly interested in the synchronicity of the various developments in this field. To my understanding, Rossi never described his device like a wire (thinner than a pencil lead). But instead I seem to recall it being a powder in a reactor chamber. That seems to have turned, and now, like Celani, Rossi works with a wire. Does anyone else notice that step?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Rossi didn’t call it a wire, but a cylinder. It could still be powder in a reactor chamber, just the dimensions are small.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes

    • Axil Axil

      The Quark reactor could be a quartz pipette that is first loaded with powder as capillary pipette feedstock and then stretched to a mm OD and a very narrow inner core filed with powder but very thin.

      This is similar to making pulling candy peppermint sticks.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Depends on if the powder needs to maintain a certain structure and be permeable to Hydrogen.

    • DrD

      Last year and in his patent he described the powder in wafer form. He has been describing the e-CatX (which became the Quark) in this way for some time now. It may still be a powder of course.
      It’s incredible to think it’s only 1mm dia.

      • Wise – but hard in practice. How will you know if there’s been a major development while you were ‘away’? What are the most informed commenters saying in your absence? The longer you stay away the stronger you will be pulled back. Just go with the flow – we all need our small addictions.

      • Yes, a thin ‘fuel’ layer sandwiched between two steel sheets could easily evolve into a thin layer of ‘fuel’ between a central wire and an outer fine metal tube about the same diameter as a catheter or large syringe needle. Pre-coating the wire before insertion into the tube would be the easiest way to achieve this.

        If one end (presumably the opposite end to the sealed wire entry) is plugged with a transparent non-reactive material, the reaction could be observed and photographed through this ‘window’.

        As a further speculation, it’s possible that the lithium/hydrogen ‘fuel’ may evaporate and then ionise as the reactor is heated and stimulated by (pulsed?) DC potential applied between the wire and the tube, until LENR reactions begin in the plasma.

        • Bob Greenyer

          It is a possibility that the reactor is powder in a sapphire capillary tube and the heating and stimulation is a glow discharge through it.

          • DrD

            That makes a lot of sense.
            I assume the DC power ouput is via a seperate circuit with it’s own electrodes.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            One of the electrodes might be the casing of the heat exchanger. This would perhaps work if the Quark emits plenty of betas (a possible cause of the bluish glow, as Rene wrote below).

          • DrD

            It might but then it wouldn’t be the quartz (Saphire) that Bob postulated, at least not all of it.
            Of course it could have fused ends of titanium or other metal.
            1mm is small but not impossible to pass wires carrying 100W and 0.5W of power especially if the casing ends are the 100W terminals.
            The whole thing sits in a fluid, or maybe just in air? I wonder what the fluid is?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I would guess it is air, or at least a gas. If it is a fluid then presumably not water, given the high surface temperature of the quark.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Air.

            It could be RF stimulated to create the ionised low pressure in the cell.

          • Gerard McEk

            AR says that the dimension (of the Quark reactor?) is fundamental. Could that mean that photons oscillate and laser-like behaviour is needed?
            Andrea Rossi
            June 15, 2016 at 7:39 AM
            Malcom Lear:
            No, Quark comes from the fact that the dimension is foundamental, X comes from the fact that a name has not been decided yet.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Ged

            Could be the diameter is turned for a specific wavelength as an optical resonance trap. Knowing the dimensions and color emission should let that possibility be solved

          • Bob Greenyer

            Piantelli said that the dimensions of his reactors was absolutely critical and the light has been said to have laser like qualities. It is very likely and we have discussed it a lot within the MFMP that reactors need to be resonant cavities – be that for RF, MW or indeed light.

            Look up sub millimeter wavelength…. guess what, it is THz…

          • builditnow

            Bob, yes, you could close the loop via a battery with inverter and then a battery charger. Not elegant perhaps, but should work provided the losses are kept low.
            If I read correctly, Rossi says it puts out twice the electricity he puts in, so, if that is the case, it’s kind of dumb of Rossi not to make a closed loop system for demo purposes, using an existing battery, inverter and charger. A light and heater that runs for 6 month without any power input and ends up with a fully charged battery !!! It would make a great demo setup and with some refinement could be sold today in volume.
            It could power a micro turbine to add electrical output and be a charger for an electric car. Add it to the “frunk” of a Tesla.

    • Pweet

      I thought it was supposed to be a wafer and the justification for making it that way was so that it could be made using similar technology to making semiconductors.
      And yet now we have something the size of a half watt resistor, but a bit longer.
      He said it was all covered by his American patent and yet I don’t see the resemblance. I must have missed a page.

      • Pweet

        Actually, it still could be a wafer so I will have to hold off on that until we hear more.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Firstly I do not subscribe to Piatelli theory, I am open minded – I need to witness evidence that anything is reality.

        What I do know is that Rossi sought out people involved with Piantelli’s research at the start of his main journey, and to date, IH and Rossi have ONLY attacked Piantellis patents.

        Regarding Piantelli theory, I have described in my videos the reason why you need to seperate atoms inorder to let H- into the transition metal atom. This is to do with bandgap. In solid latices, you need to have discontinuities to allow for Piantelli’s “anharmonic oscillations” – something the Ukranians would call “discrete breathers” to momentarily separate the metal atoms in. That is to say that at the nano scale, the temperature of individual atoms can be higher than the mean. In the cavities, this can be resonance related to sub millimeter (THz) capture and surface plasmonic effects.

        Essentially you need a transition to/from a state where the transition metal is in its cluster based conduction and valence band overlap – and the state where they are separated and discrete as in singular atoms. This is achievable in defined structures in lattices (Storms) or clusters (Piantelli) due to energy localisation and an-harmonics or in transitions to mono atomics as in the SunCell (Mills).

        Higher temperatures lead to decreasing band overlap.

        Band separation might also be achieved with multiple elements – but I have not investigated this much.

        I suspect that this reactor uses either Palladium or Platinum in combination with Nickel (preferably of desirable isotope) or Chromium, which has a desirable electronic shell configuration.

        • Bob

          Thank you for your response.
          Since Palladium has a melting point of 1150C it would be molten.
          Chromium and Platinum at about 1800C would still be solid if the Quarkx actually reaches 1500C. As you stated perhaps alloys might be involved..

          • Bob Greenyer

            In my initial “shoot from the hip” comment on the claims, I concluded on the principal transition metal being Platinum. There are epicatalytic advantages in LENR when using Alloys – this has been shown clearly in PdD systems were the lack of secondary/tertiary transition metals was at the root of early failures to replicate P&F. Of course, this kind of attribute is key to Cleani wires.

          • Ged

            There are also nickel-tungsten alloys that have over 1700 C melting temps. Tungsten has been viewed as a potential LENR amiable metal too, so such an alloy may be quite effective as well as capable of the temperatures seen in the QuarkX. You can buy such alloys easily enough too.

        • Ged

          Interesting new discovery about neutron decay came out recently that may be useful: https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.242501 0.4 – 14 KeV photon radiation from neutron decay puts it squarely in the X-ray range. So, if the reactor gives off neutrons, a certain proportion of those neutrons could be turned into X-rays in that energy range, giving another method of detection if you have a detector that can read that low.

          • Bob Greenyer

            In Santa Cruz we do, the x-ray detectors can read from 3keV

          • Ged

            I do remember the spectrum from the last two GS runs looks quite a bit like this newly measured neutron decay spectrum. It has a much shorter tail than Bremsstrahlung radiation, which is probably the best way to tell them apart (that and the much sharper main peak for Bremsstrahlung). If the two were overlayed and close to the same strength, it could wash out the Bremsstrahlung peak by making it a broader plateau. Just some interesting thoughts from the progress of science.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – good to note.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have mentioned a few time on our blog and discussed internally that the cause of signal at the high end may be internal bremsstrahlung

            In fact, the capture of H- into a transition metal nucleus may effectively be the reverse of neutron decay and if it is in progress on mass and fails momentarily – that could be the cause of some of our observations.

            Given that we appear to see thermal neutrons now, and others are reporting neutron observations, there could be not only direct Neutron based transmutation, but also Neutron decay yielding a wide range of photon energies.

      • Engineer48

        In these 2 images, attached, only the brightest fully saturated pixels are shown.
        In one image the Blue pixels were removed to aid study of the central Pink and Red pixels.

  • Robyn Wyrick

    I am repeatedly interested in the synchronicity of the various developments in this field. To my understanding, Rossi never described his device like a wire (thinner than a pencil lead). But instead I seem to recall it being a powder in a reactor chamber. That seems to have turned, and now, like Celani, Rossi works with a wire. Does anyone else notice that step?

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Rossi didn’t call it a wire, but a cylinder. It could still be powder in a reactor chamber, just the dimensions are small.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Yes

    • Axil Axil

      The Quark reactor could be a quartz pipette that is first loaded with powder as capillary pipette feedstock and then stretched to a mm OD and a very narrow inner core filed with powder but very thin.

      This is similar to pulling candy peppermint sticks.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Depends on if the powder needs to maintain a certain structure and be permeable to Hydrogen.

    • DrD

      Last year and in his patent he described the powder in wafer form. He has been describing the e-CatX (which became the Quark) in this way for some time now. It may still be a powder of course.
      It’s incredible to think it’s only 1mm dia.

      • Possibly a thin ‘fuel’ layer sandwiched between two steel sheets could have evolved into a thin layer of ‘fuel’ between a central wire and an outer fine metal tube (about the same diameter as a catheter or large syringe needle). To withstand extreme heat, both would need to be made from tungsten or possibly titanium. Pre-coating the wire with a fuel mix ‘paint’ before insertion into the tube would be the easiest way to construct such a device.

        If one end (presumably the opposite end to the sealed wire entry) is plugged with a transparent or translucent non-reactive material, light from the interior of the reactor could be observed and photographed through this ‘window’.

    • Pweet

      I thought it was supposed to be a wafer and the justification for making it that way was so that it could be made using similar technology to making semiconductors.
      And yet now we have something the size of a half watt resistor, but a bit longer.
      He said it was all covered by his American patent and yet I don’t see the resemblance. I must have missed a page.

      • Pweet

        Actually, it still could be a wafer so I will have to hold off on that until we hear more.

    • clovis ray

      Hi Robin,
      Great,idea/question, this has been studied long and hard my MF/MP.
      the blue light is my mystery, like the new blue led light, noble prize winning, discovery, could this be a source, of the effect. or the blue of the chernobyl radiation .
      I believe as well as Dr. Rossi, this is getting really close to knowing how the goose lays the golden egg.

  • bfast

    There is lots, lots, lots of energy output here. Engineers will have all manner of fun figuring out how to package and manage this thing to run all of the devices in the world, and then some.

  • bfast

    There is lots, lots, lots of energy output here. Engineers will have all manner of fun figuring out how to package and manage this thing to run all of the devices in the world, and then some.

    • MorganMck

      Very true. So why doesn’t AR re-conduct the tests just performed as a black box with a credible 3rd party (MFMP, NASA, UoMO, SPAWAR, Los Alamos Labs, etc.). Do over an extended period as “Open Science” (a la MFMP) and take questions and suggestions from skeptics. He can then proceed with licensing deals of his choosing while continuing to pursue R&D (which seems to be his real passion).

      • clovis ray

        WHY,
        He has to prove nothing,why should he, it has been done over and over again,
        with the same results, cop, of 6-200, another would be useless, we all have seen the test, they were all done by very credible people, well capable of discerning how to read, calorimetry, the taking of heat measurement. and or other measurements as well.

  • akupaku

    QuarkX was first pencil size, now it is match size. What’s next, hair size? Miniaturization of the technology seems to advance fast, what are the limits? Do we soon have microchips with their own integrated power source?

    Another thing I am wondering about is the shape, why a stick? Why not a plate or cube for example? What is the advantage or motivation for a stick shape?

    • Axil Axil

      A stick is easy to make by pulling a molten feedstock to reduce the inside ID and outside OD..

    • Pekka Janhunen

      AR, today, to Joseph Fine: “I will not miniaturize further, I promise.”

      • bachcole

        I hope not. If he miniaturizes any farther it is going to disappear.

        • f sedei

          A Wheel within a Wheel?

          • psi2u2

            The nano neutrino quark-x kitten.

        • f sedei

          A wheel within a wheel?

      • Bob Greenyer

        Doesn’t want to compete with Jet Energies NANOR

        • The NANOR is like a neutrino. You know it’s there, but it doesn’t affect anything around it.

        • Private Citizen

          Weren’t they going to distribute NANOR’s for testing quite a while back?

          • Bob Greenyer

            They offered us an older generation one to test for $100,000 – needless to say, that was not an option and I suspect that was the point.

    • bachcole

      As described, it is not match sized. It has the diameter of a very thick hair.

    • US_Citizen71

      Ease of manufacturing and pressure handling ability is my guess.

    • oldrolledgold

      Gave me a laugh,thanks.It will either happen or it won’t.I’ll stick around as long as it’s free and not to repetitive,or it happens.

  • kenko1

    yawn….sniffle……sniffle….belch…nothin 2 sea hear…..moo v along…anudder rossi sez.

    • bachcole

      Unfortunately his “Rossi sez” denies my ability to believe him. But I am not going anywhere. I want to see how this plays out. I hope that I am wrong.

      • kenko1

        agreed.

    • Steve Swatman

      yawn….sniffle……sniffle….belch…nothin 2 sea hear…..moo v along…anudder troll.

      • Roland

        Really upping their game in the home stretch…

        • Steve Swatman

          Upping the game but failing miserably.

      • bachcole

        LOL

      • kenko1

        I haven’t seen conclusive evidence anywhere, yet. Although I want to believe. My gut instincts say it will be IH 2.0 with Rossi and his newfound pardner. Quark is Hot Cat 2.0…milked and Hot Cat is E- cat 2.0…milked. Please, Mr. Rossi, please prove me wrong before I die.

        • Because the new partner will be incapable of determining if 200 times more energy is coming out of the QuarkX than put into it?

          Is the new partner The Church of Scientology?

        • Steve Swatman

          I dont understand why you would require any more proof than Mr Rossi gave to Cherokee/IH/the technicians and engineers, lugano and the year long test of the e-cat, it all certainly looks very professionally built, the people who worked on it and monitored it for 1yr certainly seem to be quite well suited to the job and well educated and trained, and not one of them has come forward and claimed that the e-cat does not work or that the quark is not a revolution.

          I kinda think that I know people quite well, and I understand that if a professional believes a situation is a scam he will come out and say so, because his/her reputation is at stake. None of the people concerned with this whole project has even insinuated such, even IH have only claimed “unsubstantiated” which can mean a myriad of things depending on the lawyers interpretation.

          But hey, I am not here to change anyones mind or even argue a point, I am here because the whole situation is interesting and I like to see the little guy come through.

          • clovis ray

            me,2

  • DrD

    Some have suggested Cherenkov radiation. It makes sense and carries implications. It can be an indication of nuclear reactions.
    To some of us it might not be a surprise.

  • bachcole

    I am very confused. How could the quarkX be 1 millimeter in diameter? Either Rossi is so far ahead of us and our thinking and expectations or else he’s crazy. Perhaps they meant centimetres, which would make more sense. I am so sorry to say but my BS alarm is going off. I will stick around with an open mind.

    • clovis ray

      Hi, bachche,
      From what i gather, each quarkX,is small,because it was reduced, in size, to see how small they could make it, when it reached this size, the 100w mark or there about, it started having big problems, i know not what, but it was enough for Dr.R to say it could not get any smaller. now all you have to do is just bundle them together too reach whatever power is needed, it looks kinda like the nanaor or whatever it was call, it looked like a firecracker to me, never heard what happened to it, hope that helps,

  • DrD

    Yes and I asked him that very question (100% light, no heat, reduced efficiency) yesterday but he denied having ever said it but then I found the Q&A, it was from AMOS on 27th Feb.
    It never did make sense that you can have 100% light and no heat (onlt the stars do that) so I think he missunderstood Amos Question.

  • malkom700

    At this stage, the focus is on safety and the expenditure could be directed. Maybe soon it appears in the 1 MW unit as soon as possible, and more likely to be used.

  • Roland

    The spectroscopic analysis was done by the second party, Rossi shared that that analysis led directly to further insights into the theoretical foundations of the reaction to such a degree that the image presented was deliberately altered to disguise the specific frequencies that would display.

    Your point about the camera optics are completely germane and a highly skilled photographer could tell you a great deal about the ‘light’, without reference to the spectroscopic data, from his professional instruments and experience alone.

    Meaningfully photographing very high intensity sources is its own art form.

    In this case a technically corrected image is undesirable as Rossi prefers to keep the implied insights to himself, at this point, for tactical purposes.

  • DrD

    Ya and it’s blocked anyway, by our firewall.

  • Gerard McEk

    Hank Mills asked many questions to AR (Thanks Hank).
    Not all of the answers are interesting, but some are:

    Hank Mills
    June 14, 2016 at 12:59 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Your report is very interesting.

    1) How was input power applied to the device: electrodes on each end of the 1mm diameter reactor, a resistor coil around the reactor, natural gas, etc?
    “”confidential””

    2) How was output in the form of heat, light, and electricity measured?
    “”audiometric ( electrocuting, boiling and blinding a vociferous guinea pig)””

    3) What was the longest period of self sustain in which the output remained steady or increased with zero input power?
    “”zero seconds. Always fed half Wh/h”” (Interesting no SSM!)

    4) During this period of self sustain, what forms of output were being produced? “”nada”” (see 3)

    5) The numbers you provide for COP and percentages for different forms of energy are vague and non-specific — for reasons you have indicated. In a situation where you are attempting to produce the maximum 10% of electrical power (in continual operation and not self sustain mode) how many watts of power are going into the reactor and how many watts are being produced in the form of electricity?
    “”just make the math”” (I am not sure why Hank asked this).

    6) According to question 5, what is the COP when only accounting for the input power and the 10% electricity being produced?
    “”equivalence principle: the COP is always the same, does not depend on the eventual efficiency”” (That’s interesting: independent of the chosen mode: electricity, light or heat, the COP is the same).

    7) How is the output electricity being collected?
    “”any load”” (This sounds like it is a current source, driven by fast electrons, taken by two electrodes)

    8) If the reactor itself is serving as a resistive element and electricity is being passed through it via electrodes, is the excess electricity being manifest as a reduction in the voltage drop over the resistor or a voltage increase?
    “”nonsense”” (So the assumption that the reactor is heated and controlled by two electrodes assuming the reactor is a resistive wire seems not true. That also I assumed the way it was constructed. So how is it constructed then?)

    9) Is the reactor truly a “reactor” in that it is a tube of another material (perhaps a Tungsten alloy) that contains the various powders that compose the charge?
    “”nonsense”” (Obviously the wrong assumption, but AR would not go into these details, it would reveal too much)

    10) Is the reactor simply a compressed cylinder of the components that make up the charge? “”nonsense”” (Same comment as 9)

    11) Does the Quark X tested utilize lithium in the charge? “”yes”” (It is good to have this confirmed again)

    12) Does the Quark X tested utilize nickel in the charge? “”yes”” (same as 11)

    13) You have mentioned that the Quark X uses titanium: is this a component in the charge? “”can’t answer in positive or in negative”” (AR would not give us these details, although in the past he once said he did).

    14) Did you measure any alpha particles being emitted from the reactor? If so, were their energies consistent with what would result from the proton + lithium reaction? “”no”” (With regards to radiation like particles, X or gamma, I have never seen any answer of AR that confirms that AR’s reactors would emit it).

    15) If the reactor reached 1500C, that would represent a temperature beyond the melting point of nickel. “”confidential, patent processing”” (I am not sure why a new patent is needed. All transition metals are included in the existing patents, so that would not need another patent. Maybe the way it works for these high temperature reactors?)

    a) Is this possible because the surface of the 1mm diameter reactor is hotter than the inner surface due to eddy currents, as you previously assert?
    b) Is this possible because nickel is no longer being utilized and perhaps has been substituted with another suitable metal such as titanium with a higher melting point?
    c) Is this possible because the reactions can continue taking place while the nickel is in liquid phase? (These three were not answered).

    “”Sorry for some irony, but I am laughing with you, not at you.”” (Just answer 2, I hope.)

    Thank you for any answers you can provide
    Hank Mills

  • Gerard McEk

    Hank Mills asked many questions to AR (Thanks Hank).
    Not all of the answers are interesting, but some are:

    Hank Mills
    June 14, 2016 at 12:59 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    Your report is very interesting.

    1) How was input power applied to the device: electrodes on each end of the 1mm diameter reactor, a resistor coil around the reactor, natural gas, etc?
    “”confidential””

    2) How was output in the form of heat, light, and electricity measured?
    “”audiometric ( electrocuting, boiling and blinding a vociferous guinea pig)””

    3) What was the longest period of self sustain in which the output remained steady or increased with zero input power?
    “”zero seconds. Always fed half Wh/h”” (Interesting no SSM!)

    4) During this period of self sustain, what forms of output were being produced? “”nada”” (see 3)

    5) The numbers you provide for COP and percentages for different forms of energy are vague and non-specific — for reasons you have indicated. In a situation where you are attempting to produce the maximum 10% of electrical power (in continual operation and not self sustain mode) how many watts of power are going into the reactor and how many watts are being produced in the form of electricity?
    “”just make the math”” (I am not sure why Hank asked this).

    6) According to question 5, what is the COP when only accounting for the input power and the 10% electricity being produced?
    “”equivalence principle: the COP is always the same, does not depend on the eventual efficiency”” (That’s interesting: independent of the chosen mode: electricity, light or heat, the COP is the same).

    7) How is the output electricity being collected?
    “”any load”” (This sounds like it is a current source, driven by fast electrons, taken by two electrodes)

    8) If the reactor itself is serving as a resistive element and electricity is being passed through it via electrodes, is the excess electricity being manifest as a reduction in the voltage drop over the resistor or a voltage increase?
    “”nonsense”” (So the assumption that the reactor is heated and controlled by two electrodes assuming the reactor is a resistive wire seems not true. That also I assumed the way it was constructed. So how is it constructed then?)

    9) Is the reactor truly a “reactor” in that it is a tube of another material (perhaps a Tungsten alloy) that contains the various powders that compose the charge?
    “”nonsense”” (Obviously the wrong assumption, but AR would not go into these details, it would reveal too much)

    10) Is the reactor simply a compressed cylinder of the components that make up the charge? “”nonsense”” (Same comment as 9)

    11) Does the Quark X tested utilize lithium in the charge? “”yes”” (It is good to have this confirmed again)

    12) Does the Quark X tested utilize nickel in the charge? “”yes”” (same as 11)

    13) You have mentioned that the Quark X uses titanium: is this a component in the charge? “”can’t answer in positive or in negative”” (AR would not give us these details, although in the past he once said he did).

    14) Did you measure any alpha particles being emitted from the reactor? If so, were their energies consistent with what would result from the proton + lithium reaction? “”no”” (With regards to radiation like particles, X or gamma, I have never seen any answer of AR that confirms that AR’s reactors would emit it).

    15) If the reactor reached 1500C, that would represent a temperature beyond the melting point of nickel. “”confidential, patent processing”” (I am not sure why a new patent is needed. All transition metals are included in the existing patents, so that would not need another patent. Maybe the way it works for these high temperature reactors?)

    a) Is this possible because the surface of the 1mm diameter reactor is hotter than the inner surface due to eddy currents, as you previously assert?
    b) Is this possible because nickel is no longer being utilized and perhaps has been substituted with another suitable metal such as titanium with a higher melting point?
    c) Is this possible because the reactions can continue taking place while the nickel is in liquid phase? (These three were not answered).

    “”Sorry for some irony, but I am laughing with you, not at you.”” (Just answer 2, I hope.)

    Thank you for any answers you can provide
    Hank Mills

  • DrD

    One surprise and interesting answer.
    AR answered Hank Mills that the Quark didn’t have any self sustain periods.
    It seems it requires the 0.5W input to always be present.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think a more relevant question would be at what voltage

      For the 0.5W to be always present, on what time averaging basis? if there is any form of signal one would expect “0.5W input to always be present” to be an average… always present, it could only be DC or maybe losses from fixed HT potential.

      • DrD

        True.
        But it does also seem to imply quite a significant difference between the control of the Quark earlier E-Cats.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Or understanding that came from discovering what better drives them.

          You cannot have a pendulum without gravity, perhaps this does not work without a fixed potential.

      • Gerard McEk

        As I suggested below: because ‘any load’ will do I would say that the generated electrical energy behaves like a current source. A high ohm resistor would cause a high voltage and the other way around. To make it work, you need a current source or at least a power supply that also can take a DC current.

      • OT: Bob, could you summarize the current state of affairs re: me356?

        • Bob Greenyer

          He is extremely busy with his main business. I am waiting for the correct mutual opportunity – I can add this from him.

          “In the latest days I have finally found design reactor that can run for a long time and even achieve melting point of the nickel.

          At the same time it looks like it can shield neutrons that are coming from the core.
          Most of the neutrons are ultra cold, which is very good.”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Interesting. This could be a point for Widom & Larsen. Or the “neutrons” are actually not neutrons but something else…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Our next series of experiments and a lot of our work over the past months has been focused on planning to monitor and characterise any potential neutron emissions.

          • Gerard McEk

            Bob, are you able to detect ultra low energy neutrons? To me it seems you need to have a detector in the fuel.

          • Gerard McEk

            Another question @ Bob if I may: EM356 says he can get LENR without LiAlH4. How does that comply with Piantelli’s H- theory?

          • Bob Greenyer

            He is using Hydrogen from a Hydrogen generator, it is entirely consistent with Piantelli theory.

          • Bob Greenyer

            We are putting a detector in the fuel, it is called Al2 18O3. Proton knock out will yield very specific 511keV photons, neutron transmutation and decay to 19F will yield other specific photons. The hypothesis is that we might be able to monitor particles by proxy in this way and test some of the leading proposed theories in the process.

          • georgehants

            Bob, you have replied to me several times that MFMP have offered to test a basic sealed Rossi e-cat, could you give your candid reasoning of why he still refuses to allow such simple conformation of his basic technology.
            Many thanks

          • Bob Greenyer

            Protectionism, of something.

          • Excellent. Thank you very much!

    • It’s not clear to me whether me meant the test didn’t have any self-sustain periods or whether the QX is not designed to have any SSM at all.

  • DrD

    One surprise and interesting answer.
    AR answered Hank Mills that the Quark didn’t have any self sustain periods.
    It seems it requires the 0.5W input to always be present.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think a more relevant question would be at what voltage

      For the 0.5W to be always present, on what time averaging basis? if there is any form of signal one would expect “0.5W input to always be present” to be an average… always present, it could only be DC or maybe losses from fixed HT potential.

      • DrD

        True.
        But it does also seem to imply quite a significant difference between the control of the Quark and earlier E-Cats.

        • Bob Greenyer

          Or understanding that came from discovering what better drives them.

          You cannot have a pendulum without gravity, perhaps this does not work without a fixed potential.

      • Gerard McEk

        As I suggested below: because ‘any load’ will do I would say that the generated electrical energy behaves like a current source. A high ohm resistor would cause a high voltage and the other way around. To make it work, you need a current source or at least a power supply that also can take a DC current.

      • OT: Bob, could you summarize the current state of affairs re: me356?

        • Bob Greenyer

          He is extremely busy with his main business. I am waiting for the correct mutual opportunity – I can add this from him.

          “In the latest days I have finally found design reactor that can run for a long time and even achieve melting point of the nickel.

          At the same time it looks like it can shield neutrons that are coming from the core.
          Most of the neutrons are ultra cold, which is very good.”

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Interesting. This could be a point for Widom & Larsen. Or the “neutrons” are actually not neutrons but something else…

          • Bob Greenyer

            Our next series of experiments and a lot of our work over the past months has been focused on planning to monitor and characterise any potential neutron emissions.

          • Gerard McEk

            Bob, are you able to detect ultra low energy neutrons? To me it seems you need to have a detector in the fuel.

          • Gerard McEk

            Another question @ Bob if I may: EM356 says he can get LENR without LiAlH4. How does that comply with Piantelli’s H- theory?

          • Bob Greenyer

            He is using Hydrogen from a Hydrogen generator, it is entirely consistent with Piantelli theory.

          • Bob Greenyer

            We are putting a detector in the fuel, it is called Al2 18O3. Proton knock out will yield very specific 511keV photons, neutron transmutation and decay to 19F will yield other specific photons. The hypothesis is that we might be able to monitor particles by proxy in this way and test some of the leading proposed theories in the process.

          • georgehants

            Bob, you have replied to me several times that MFMP have offered to test a basic sealed Rossi e-cat, could you give your candid reasoning of why he still refuses to allow such simple conformation of his basic technology.
            Many thanks

          • Roger Roger

            what is reverse engineering

          • Bob Greenyer

            Protectionism, of something.

          • Excellent. Thank you very much!

    • Samiam

      He may not have been testing self-sustain. My faulty memory thinks that the Lugano test did not include self-sustain either. My faulty memory further remembers (or mis-remembers) that Dr. Rossi once said that the Quark-X could operate in self-sustain mode.

    • It’s not clear to me whether me meant the test didn’t have any self-sustain periods or whether the QX is not designed to have any SSM at all.

  • giovanniontheweb

    with this power density it could upgrade nuclear plants by replacing the uranium rods the rest of intallation and distribution wouldn’t change

  • OT: ecatnews.com is calling it quits.

    • Midnight Sky

      Wow. La fin.

    • Timar

      Better prepare for an army of trolls looking for a new home…

      • Jarea

        Yes that web was full of haters.
        It was sad to see how persons were able to comment those messages. They were desperate when they saw that the FUD they spread didn´t work. Maybe, it was a slow descend to the hell and abyss of hate. All defending an idea but all without real proof but only by guessing and by doing assumptions to support their first chosen side. In the bottom of all the messages, it is the tone and the form where you see the quality of the soul of many persons. Independently if they are right or wrong.

        • Pweet

          Yes, all terrible people. It just goes to show what a good education at reputable universities can do to people. Some of them were even university professors with phd’s and everything. A few were just ordinary engineers and scientists etc but you would think they would recognize real technology when they saw it. I don’t know, it’s all a bit strange really.

          • The only university professors who have actually laid eyes on the E-Cat and had a chance to poke and prod it, as well as get to know Rossi, claim it works.

            Everybody else is just spewing dogma. But now they have problems with the Standard Model to keep them busy I guess.

          • Pweet

            Yes, that’s true. Although they don’t seem to have said much about it since.
            I think they should come out and comment on some of the later examinations of the science they used to determine the actual temperature of the reactor body, because small errors in temperature make a big difference in energy output calculations.

      • help_lenr

        I am afraid this is going to happen.

    • Robert Dorr

      It’s been virtually dead for a couple of years. It was primarily an anti Rossi, anti e-cat site with no active news updates. Good riddance.

    • Bob

      It is a sad story indeed!
      I read ecatnews.com when it first started up. The publisher, much like Frank, was a very sincere guy and by no means a skeptic. He was very balanced and was strongly FOR LENR / CF.
      .
      As the years went by, the evidence as he saw it started to change his belief. It was not a quick change. He held an open mind for at least 2 more years before coming to the conclusion that Rossi did not have what he stated.
      .
      At that point, a number of posters took the sight over that were truly anti-Rossi. eCatnews.com became the “mirror” site to e-catworld.com. Almost every post was anti-Rossi while here, it became Rossi was supreme and could do no wrong. There “Rossi says” = “total nonsense” while here “Rossi says” = “Absolute truth”. The vile and animosity that was posted there was quite bad. I stopped visiting it regularly a long time ago. I am afraid my visits here have been dwindling and most likely will eventually stop as well. While ecatnews.com was nothing but vile, there is a growing tendency here to sing the praises of Rossi, while not asking the hard and obvious questions.
      .
      While I do not regret the “current” eCatnews.com from closing, I DO regret that it used to be a positive place to have discussions about the eCat. Somewhat like here. And now it is closed because the moderator saw no reason for it to continue! That is sad no matter how you look at it.
      .
      Will e-catworld.com be here in another 5 years? Will it still be singing the praises of Rossi? Frank even considered changing the site to be more inclusive to other technology such as the ORBO. However that did not pan out to well. How will the eCat pan out?
      .
      The eCat appears gone, forgotten and replaced by the QuarkX. Along with the sales and customers? 🙁

      • I’m always happy to run across a sincere skeptic. I don’t agree with your characterization that Rossi’s word is gospel here. Some may feel that way but for the most part I see a curious crowd excited by a potentially world-changing technology, picking apart every morsel of information that becomes available to us… trying to make it all fit together.

        We objectively observe that often (not always) what Rossi claims comes to pass. If you remember (back to the good old days of 2012), Rossi was trumpeting a new American partner and ongoing independent 3rd party tests. The skeptics laughed and scoffed, citing over and over Rossi’s past and how it was all just a show for duping the gullible. Well those things wound up being 100% true,

        Evidence like that makes us pay close attention to what the man says and does. But that’s not the same as taking the man at his word. Yes we will analyze the things he says as if they were true. But don’t mistake that for blanket acceptance. You will also find posters placing special emphasis on corroboration and circumstantial evidence that argues both for and against certain scenarios.

        The number of improbable things that one must believe in order to assert fraud as the leading scenario is large and growing:

        * Tricked Focardi.
        * Tricked Fioravanti and Lewan.
        * Triggered a fake burst of gamma rays hoping Celani would pick it up.
        * Conspiring with Levi.
        * Conspiring with Penon.
        * Left his scam device with a team of professors to do with as they pleased for six months confident they would think it worked.
        * Swapped in fake ash for the real ash at the end of the Lugano test like a magician despite being observed.
        * Tricked Darden and Vaughn despite months of acceptance testing.
        * Tricked the engineers of Industrial Heat over a year long period, despite daily feedback, quarterly reports and IH using the facility to garner at least $50M in additional investment
        * Conspiring with Fulvio Fabiani.
        * Unsatisfied with $11.5M in scammed profits
        * Willing to bare all in court despite not having working tech and over-matched legal representation
        * Willing to attempt to trick another entity out of cash with magic toothpicks the claims about which could be easily disproved with simple measurements

        On and on.

        You see it’s the skeptics at this point who believe in a broad conspiracy theory with numerous elements that don’t pass the common sense test. The one serious contention the skeptics can hold on to is Industrial Heat’s claim of inability to substantiate the tech and a flawed test. But IH’s motives are highly suspect, with $89M on the line and perhaps knowledge that the new QuarkX technology is going to knock them out of the game permanently unless they can force an IP transfer.

        • Bob

          Your are correct that my post was to much of an “umbrella”. Not everyone on this site believes every single word is “gospel”. Just like not every single poster on ecatnews.com was completely anti-Rossi. (Although at the end it was almost that it appears.)
          .
          However, the over all tone at this site, I must say is “Rossi says = truth”.
          It is healthy to be somewhat skeptical. It is unhealthy to become embittered and mean. I am very disappointed in Jed Rothwell’s demeanor lately for example. One can have strong convictions and still not have to call people idiots and stupid.
          .
          I have followed the saga since 2011. I am well familiar with those involved.
          While your list is not unsupported, I can probably match it line for line as well.
          Such as Seimens walked away. National Instruments walked away.
          Other scientists, including the Lugano team have “Walked away”.
          .
          The IH saga in my opinion is on that follows this line of thought.
          Rossi had something interesting, possibly even COP > 1.
          IH hired Rossi to develop it. Rossi himself said he was IH’s Chief Scientist.
          Over time they gave Rossi MUCH leeway to experiment.
          People keep saying “tricked IH over the 1 year period”. I say no. Rossi posted often about “serious” problems. That he worked 16 hours per day keeping it running. Was this hid from IH? Of course not. They wanted it to work. Rossi was their employee. He said he was making progress. WHY would they have stopped it? It was a developmental test afterall, not a final product.
          Then in the end, the results simply did not pan out. This year long controversy is not such a mystery in my opinion.
          .
          I do believe Rossi has something that has kept people interested. However of ALL the people you mention above, only Penon, Fabiani , Lugano and IH have actually seen the eCat. Lugano has not came out in support of Rossi. Penon has not spoken publicly. Fabiani has made some posts, but nothing too formal or documented. IH said it did not work. We do not know the details.
          .
          All the past customers… none public. All the past reactors sold… where are they? Other scientists involved with Rossi, silent and gone.
          .
          I cannot ignore all that as well. I must consider all the evidence.
          .
          Sincerely,
          Bob

          • Yes, we must consider all the evidence.

            Siemens and National Instruments. Agreed, lack of continued overt involvement is a strike against.

            Lugano team. Less of an argument here, I think. I believe they made some measurement mistakes that they are embarrassed about but also still believe in their main conclusions. They have not come out in full-throated support, but neither have they retracted. Their silence can be interpreted either way and doesn’t tell us much of anything.

            The ‘IH gave Rossi a long rope’ argument. This does not comport with how the story unfolded. Go back and read carefully how things went down in 2012 and 2013. There was interest from an unknown party. There was an internal test and report. Penon enters the scene and gets similar results, confirms the internal test. On October 30, 2012 we hear this from Rossi: “An extremely important agreement has been signed after the tests of the Hot Cat, which are going on since June in the USA and in Italy.” After some four months of testing, Industrial Heat/Cherokee (we would find out later), signs a blockbuster $100.5M deal with Leonardo. Then there was word, never countered by IH, that Darden was able to make the charge by himself and get the same results. Then there was another acceptance gate in 2013, which the E-Cats again passed and $10M changed hands. IH issued a press release stating clearly that they had validated the tech. IH then had continuous reporting from the 1 MW plant which was supposedly cruising along at COP 50. Used it to raise another $50M from Woodford (who also claimed due diligence) and we’re told even more from the Chinese. Ugh I better stop on IH. Too long already. Point being many tests and three years of hands on experience and problems only came up when money and IP became an issue.

            Public customers: fair point. The secrecy is frustrating as hell.

        • well said, again!

          • However many times it takes.

            Whatever the truth turns out to be in this incredible drama, I am its staunch ally and advocate.

        • psi2u2

          Yes, good summary.

    • Pweet

      I guess they were all overwhelmed by the shear magnitude of this latest technical revelation. A COP of 200 no less. That’s equally as good as the claim for the original ecat so although it’s no better than the original, it’s good to know at least we’re not going backwards. Although it would be nice to have some confirmation by way of real figures from an independent third party.

      • DrD

        So I wonder what will be the reaction when he refines it into a product with a COP of >1000.

        • Ged

          At that point it is a rounding error’s throw from infinity 😉

      • Bob Greenyer

        Similar orders of magnitude (though at different power levels) have been claimed for NANORs and at different to no levels of control for the PdD system.

      • Seems an odd time to bail. A Rossi perp walk, which they all clearly feel is imminent, would have been the party of the century over there.

        • Ged

          They probably jumped the shark into oblivion with all the threats and libel going on over there.

  • Midnight Sky
  • Stephen

    I wonder if Me356 saw any similar spectral emissions? Especially the blue halo. If so it could be a good independent verification or evidence of similar processes even if it is from a different device.

    I’m very curious what he he thinks about this data

  • Stephen

    I wonder if Me356 saw any similar spectral emissions? Especially the blue halo. If so it could be a good independent verification or evidence of similar processes even if it is from a different device.

    I’m very curious what he he thinks about this data

  • help_lenr

    The obscure photo with blue halo light and with white spot reminds me of photos in UFO conspiracy sites.

    So. Is the quarqx an extratrerestrial object ? Is andrea rossi an alien messenger coming to us from the future with 3 hot needles 30 mm long ?

    • Pweet

      I find that explanation as likely as any of the others so far. In fact, possibly even a little more likely.
      The one which is running a close second is that Mr Rossi has somehow got hold of the IP secrets of Blacklight Power.
      They recently renamed themselves to Brilliantlight Power which would have to be a reference to the brilliant light emitted from their latest technical breakthrough. And now Mr Rossi’s technical breakthrough emits brilliant light.
      All we need to find then is a connecting link between BLP and Mr Rossi,.. oh, and IH of course.

      • georgehants

        Pweet, your reasoning being followed, why do you think that BLP would not have applied for a comprehensive patent on such a technology advance, (assuming they have not) allowing Mr. Rossi or whoever to possibly claim the discovery.

        • Pweet

          To be honest I haven’t followed them closely for the last few years other than to watch the occasional video. From the video it was impossible to determine the length of the light flash of each discharge so although they claimed it ran continuously, they must have meant continuous in the same way that a car engine runs continuously. That doesn’t mean the combustion is continuous however and it is not. A jet engine can make that claim; an internal combustion engine cannot. Neither can BLP’s light emitting technology. It was a series of energy discharges.
          I have no idea if Mr Rossi’s light emitting resistor produces a continually bright emission or not. We will have to wait for the report.
          The problem here is that it will be virtually impossible to determine what the output energy is from looking at photos or videos. We we will have to rely on what we are told in the upcoming report and I would have to say, some people will not find that at all convincing.

  • help_lenr

    The obscure photo with blue halo light and with white spot reminds me of photos in UFO conspiracy sites.

    So. Is the quarqx an extratrerestrial object ? Is andrea rossi an alien messenger coming to us from the future with 3 hot needles 30 mm long ?

    • Pweet

      I find that explanation as likely as any of the others so far. In fact, possibly even a little more likely.
      The one which is running a close second is that Mr Rossi has somehow got hold of the IP secrets of Blacklight Power.
      They recently renamed themselves to Brilliantlight Power which would have to be a reference to the brilliant light emitted from their latest technical breakthrough. And now Mr Rossi’s technical breakthrough emits brilliant light.
      All we need to find then is a connecting link between BLP and Mr Rossi,.. oh, and IH of course.

      • Roger Roger

        Nice
        Are you going to propose to the judge that Rossi stole IH’s IP?

        • Pweet

          No. I wouldn’t bother, even though I know he would be quite happy to do so.
          I recall that there were claims his original ecat technology was a rip off of earlier lenr tech from others using Focardi as a conduit.
          Lots of technology is based on ideas of others and in the event that something actually comes of it, the original source is rarely recognized.
          I was amazed at the similarity between the early microsoft DOS and the previous supposedly unrelated CPM operating system. Two systems which did the same job in the same way with virtually a duplicate command set, but two different designers, supposedly.
          I don’t think so.

      • georgehants

        Pweet, your reasoning being followed, why do you think that BLP would not have applied for a comprehensive patent on such a technology advance, (assuming they have not) allowing Mr. Rossi or whoever to possibly claim the discovery.

        • Pweet

          To be honest I haven’t followed them closely for the last few years other than to watch the occasional video. From the video it was impossible to determine the length of the light flash of each discharge so although they claimed it ran continuously, they must have meant continuous in the same way that a car engine runs continuously. That doesn’t mean the combustion is continuous however and it is not. A jet engine can make that claim; an internal combustion engine cannot. Neither can BLP’s light emitting technology. It was a series of energy discharges.
          I have no idea if Mr Rossi’s light emitting resistor produces a continually bright emission or not. We will have to wait for the report.
          The problem here is that it will be virtually impossible to determine what the output energy is from looking at photos or videos. We we will have to rely on what we are told in the upcoming report and I would have to say, some people will not find that at all convincing.

  • Bob

    Many questions to be answered as this seems to be a complete departure from the “Cold Cat” and “Hot Cat” and thus the 1 mw plant systems. They have been in the works for 5 years. I hope we do not wait another 5 years for the QuarkX. It would not be an easy retrofit of the (4) reactor 1MW plant with 10,000 QuarkX’s. Rossi wound up reducing the 100 reactor 1mw plant design to a (4) reactor one. If he drops that design, it will be another 5 years trying to figure out how to harness, control and transfer the heat from 10,000 units! Much less the fuel replacement.
    .
    Rossi himself stated he has sold 3 more of the 1mw plants. He stated that the ERV confirmed the plant had a COP > 50! If this is correct, it would make any current gas fired boiler absolutely obsolete! This would not be a “Model T”, he would be starting out with a Corevette!
    .
    That is what I am focusing on. There supposedly is an unrelated party, that has purchased (3) I MW plants that production should be in course now! Why has everyone forgot about these? That should be the shortest route to public confirmation of a working LENR device! The plant has been tested! The customer found! The product sold! A tremendous COP! Confirmed by the ERV! European customer, so the lawsuit is not an issue. Nothing to hold the implementation up! Yet, not a mention of it? 🙁
    .
    It seems that when something should in reality “Break out”, a new design is introduced to steer everyone’s attention away. A true “Wag the Dog” event.
    .
    I hope this customer and sales does not fade from everyone’s memory like the ones in
    2011, 2012 and 2013 did. Or people will be sitting at their keyboards in 2020 typing about the great new model “Hyper Quark Z”, ready to be tested by the “new customer/partner” and ready for production in 6 months. With the eCat forgotten about, the Hot Cat forgotten about, the 250kw cats forgotten about, the Curie Cat forgotten about, the Quark x forgotten about……..
    .
    As George H. would probably agree….. It is time to see some working devices, not a blurry image that has no meaning.

  • Bob Greenyer

    It is a possibility that the reactor is powder in a sapphire capillary tube and the heating and stimulation is a glow discharge through it – this would require a permanent application of power for it to operate. That is to say that it would not self sustain. If the figures above are correct then some sort of power/accumulator/drive train could be developed to “close the loop” and the system as a whole would be able to self sustain.

    • DrD

      That makes a lot of sense.
      I assume the DC power ouput is via a seperate circuit with it’s own electrodes.
      Edit: Except they must be very small electrodes and wires.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        One of the electrodes might be the casing of the heat exchanger. This would perhaps work if the Quark emits plenty of betas (a possible cause of the bluish glow, as Rene wrote below).

        • DrD

          It might but then it wouldn’t be the quartz (Saphire) that Bob postulated, at least not all of it.
          Of course it could have fused ends of titanium or other metal.
          1mm is small but not impossible to pass wires carrying 100W and 0.5W of power especially if the casing ends are the 100W terminals.
          The whole thing sits in a fluid, or maybe just in air? I wonder what the fluid is?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I would guess it is air, or at least a gas. If it is a fluid then presumably not water, given the high surface temperature of the quark.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Air.

            It could be RF stimulated to create the ionised low pressure in the cell.

    • Gerard McEk

      AR says that the dimension (of the Quark reactor?) is fundamental. Could that mean that photons oscillate and laser-like behaviour is needed?
      Andrea Rossi
      June 15, 2016 at 7:39 AM
      Malcom Lear:
      No, Quark comes from the fact that the dimension is foundamental, X comes from the fact that a name has not been decided yet.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

      • Ged

        Could be the diameter is turned for a specific wavelength as an optical resonance trap. Knowing the dimensions and color emission should let that possibility be solved

      • Bob Greenyer

        Piantelli said that the dimensions of his reactors was absolutely critical and the light has been said to have laser like qualities. It is very likely and we have discussed it a lot within the MFMP that reactors need to be resonant cavities – be that for RF, MW or indeed light.

        Look up sub millimeter wavelength…. guess what, it is THz…

    • builditnow

      Bob, yes, you could close the loop via a battery with inverter and then a battery charger. Not elegant perhaps, but should work provided the losses are kept low.
      If I read correctly, Rossi says it puts out twice the electricity he puts in, so, if that is the case, it’s kind of dumb of Rossi not to make a closed loop system for demo purposes, using an existing battery, inverter and charger. A light and heater that runs for 6 month without any power input and ends up with a fully charged battery !!! It would make a great demo setup and with some refinement could be sold today in volume.
      It could power a micro turbine to add electrical output and be a charger for an electric car. Add it to the “frunk” of a Tesla.

  • Not a fact… just a gut feeling: the very rapid miniaturization and advances in performance of the QuarkX versus the HotCat and E-Cat X indicates to me that that Rossi has the assistance of an entity with serious resources.

    They are on a blistering pace, cranking out these new prototypes and testing them. I have a hard time imagining Leonardo pulling all this off on its own. I imagine instead a dedicated team of tens of specialists, theorizing, designing, fabricating and testing many devices, converging rapidly to a fundamental energy toothpick that can be used for thousands of applications. I think the new partner has been involved for quite some time and is helping this technology get to the finish line.

    I also think this new partner’s involvement is the root cause of the lawsuit.

    • Ged

      He has to have some serious fabrication help no matter how one slices it. And the materials and customization he is working with now, the advanced machine shop he would need, would not be cheap, and require a lot of skilled labor.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think it has more to do with understanding what makes it do useful things without necessarily knowing why. This could then allow for rapid improvement of design even with only one person thinking on it.

      The rest is engineering, knowing the power, temperature and pressure parameters being key to materials choices. Above certain temperatures, there are little options.

      • A factor sure, but I’m not buying it. Feels like too much progress too fast for me just under Rossi’s guidance. We’ve supposedly had more progress in the past 8 months than we had in the previous 5 years. Something more than just accruing experience is at work here IMO.

        I could be wrong, of course.

        • Bob Greenyer

          There is a LOT of low hanging fruit when one first discoveres something and understand how to make it work.

          Look at the ICE or solar panels – MASSIVE effort has to go into eeking out marginal gains when very early successful version of the tech yielded the biggest part of the technologies capability.

        • sam

          Andrea Rossi
          June 15, 2016 at 3:23 PM
          LookMoo:
          New secretary.
          (he,he,he)
          To be serious now and again:
          1- it is true, the little Leonardo has made an enormous mole of work in a relatively short time and with a very limited budget: we got COPs in 5 years that in classic hot fusion have not been achieved in 50 years and spending fifty billions or more. The secret? Work like beasts, without limitations, with high risks, never giving up and, if you allow me, also a particular skill.
          2- about my English: I love English and do my best to improve it, even if for me it is very frustrating when most taxists, after I explain them where I have to go in the particulars, most times answer “you are Italian, aren’t you?” So long for my correct pronunciation endeavours.
          3- In Leonardo we are not many persons, but I choose very top level guys: one Messi is better that 100 normal players.
          3- for the massive production we will have all the necessary personnel and our business plan has been studied in the particulars. An enormous work is waiting for us.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Leonardo is supposedly some 30+ people strong at this point. If they are really a team of experts of that size I suppose they could be solely responsible for the rapid progress.

            My gut is still not buying it though.

          • Axil Axil

            Sebastian
            June 16, 2016 at 3:45 PM
            Dear Andrea,

            I think John Atkinson had an interesting question. Where I live, power goes down very frequently, sometimes for days.

            1) If you’re running a quark, and the power goes down, will it just turn off safely?

            2) If power is out for a few days, can you run a quark on back up generator?

            3) can you run it on a backup battery system safely?

            4) If yes to 3, can you use the same Quark to charge the battery it is running on?

            5) If no to 4, can you run a quark on battery, use it to charge a second battery, and switch batteries when needed?

            Thanks!

            Andrea Rossi
            June 16, 2016 at 4:03 PM
            Sebastian:
            Obviously with John Atkinson I was joking.
            Surely a back up generator resolves the problem.
            The answer is yes to the questions 1 2 3 4.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

            —————————————————–
            Rossi could set up a black box demo that can drive a load (light bulb) to prove that the Quark can produce more power than any battery can store.

  • Not a fact… just a gut feeling: the very rapid miniaturization and advances in performance of the QuarkX versus the HotCat and E-Cat X indicates to me that that Rossi has the assistance of an entity with serious resources.

    They are on a blistering pace, cranking out these new prototypes and testing them. I have a hard time imagining Leonardo pulling all this off on its own. I imagine instead a dedicated team of tens of specialists, theorizing, designing, fabricating and testing many devices, converging rapidly to a fundamental energy toothpick that can be used for thousands of applications. I think the new partner has been involved for quite some time and is helping this technology get to the finish line.

    I also think this new partner’s involvement is the root cause of the lawsuit.

    • Ged

      He has to have some serious fabrication help no matter how one slices it. And the materials and customization he is working with now, the advanced machine shop he would need, would not be cheap, and require a lot of skilled labor.

    • Bob Greenyer

      I think it has more to do with understanding what makes it do useful things without necessarily knowing why. This could then allow for rapid improvement of design even with only one person thinking on it.

      The rest is engineering, knowing the power, temperature and pressure and control signal parameters being key to materials choices. Above certain temperatures, there are little options.

      • A factor sure, but I’m not buying it. Feels like too much progress too fast for me just under Rossi’s guidance. We’ve supposedly had more progress in the past 8 months than we had in the previous 5 years. Something more than just accruing experience is at work here IMO.

        I could be wrong, of course.

        • Bob Greenyer

          There is a LOT of low hanging fruit when one first discoveres something and understand how to make it work.

          Look at the ICE or solar panels – MASSIVE effort has to go into eeking out marginal gains when very early successful version of the tech yielded the biggest part of the technologies capability.

        • sam

          Andrea Rossi
          June 15, 2016 at 3:23 PM
          LookMoo:
          New secretary.
          (he,he,he)
          To be serious now and again:
          1- it is true, the little Leonardo has made an enormous mole of work in a relatively short time and with a very limited budget: we got COPs in 5 years that in classic hot fusion have not been achieved in 50 years and spending fifty billions or more. The secret? Work like beasts, without limitations, with high risks, never giving up and, if you allow me, also a particular skill.
          2- about my English: I love English and do my best to improve it, even if for me it is very frustrating when most taxists, after I explain them where I have to go in the particulars, most times answer “you are Italian, aren’t you?” So long for my correct pronunciation endeavours.
          3- In Leonardo we are not many persons, but I choose very top level guys: one Messi is better that 100 normal players.
          3- for the massive production we will have all the necessary personnel and our business plan has been studied in the particulars. An enormous work is waiting for us.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Leonardo is supposedly some 30+ people strong at this point. If they are really a team of experts of that size I suppose they could be solely responsible for the rapid progress.

            My gut is still not buying it though.

  • Robert Dorr

    It could be possible that the new QuarkX has no direct wire connections but is stimulated to operation externally and the fact that he is only getting a 10% electrical output is that he is using a solar cell for electrical production.

    • Pweet

      I don’t think so. Right in the beginning he said it made a ‘direct production’ of electricity. I would take it that means no PV cells. The electrical energy must be taken directly off the reactor somehow.

      • Robert Dorr

        True about the electrical production but I still wonder about the stimulation to startup of the reactor. It may be done externally via possibly RF, magnetic field and or heating.

        • Pweet

          I’m pretty sure it will be started by the simple connection of a low voltage high current pulsed power source across whatever the reactor is. The reactor material will no doubt be electrically conductive and it will probably be claimed that the resistive heat produced initiates some sort of lenr reaction to produce more heat than is electrically fed into it.
          The light emission is not surprising if the temperature can be raised to a very high level without cooking up the reactor (resistor).
          The puzzle will be how is he extracting electrical energy out of the cell.?
          Pulsing the input power means it could be done by way of winding a coil around the cell, but there’s nothing technically new about that.
          I suppose the other more important question is, does it really have a COP of 200? or even 6? The device keeps moving into a form which makes it more and more difficult to determine what the COP is from looking at the demonstration.
          We will just have to wait and see, or wait and not see as is usually the case.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Celani reports that his wire produces current – this has been the case for more than 1 year and he has learned to enhance the effect over the intervening time.

      • INVENTOR INVENTED

        He’s been telling the press that the LENR process makes 300 kV photons. There are ways of generating electricity directly from that radiation.

    • INVENTOR INVENTED

      He’s interested in thermoelectric and thermionic generators. I wrote him about a project at my company.

      • Axil Axil

        If the blue light were caused by electrons passing through a small hole in the metal protection shield, pin hole interference pattern would be seen.

        https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWqA52u553V0xm_zJ6S0c77OD7haah-Wh50QqhADY9Hut0ah5ILg

        Yet, there does look like some of the light was produced outside of the hole.

        Photo Courtesy of Engineer 48 shows the following.

        There does look like there is light production outside of the protection shield but the means of production is not electrons. The cause looks like it is activating at random over a wide spread distance after it has been dispersed through the pinhole and mixed in the air. Muons are a possible cause or exotic neutral particles(ENP) might be doing it. These ENP ball lightning like objects are what Fabiani is describing when he talks about points of light melting down a Rossi reactor. Rossi said that not only intense light must be shielded but also other things. ENP might be produced and released in abundance in the Quark reactor. There is some sort of reactive element coming out of that reactor.

        Frank Acland:
        4. You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection?

        Rossi:

        4- to provide protection not just to the eyes

        • Fedir Mykhaylov

          It reminds peeping through the keyhole. Nothing is clear except for a large source of 1500 Celsius.

  • Robert Dorr

    It could be possible that the new QuarkX has no direct wire connections but is stimulated to operation externally and the fact that he is only getting a 10% electrical output is that he is using a solar cell(s) for electrical production.

    • Pweet

      I don’t think so. Right in the beginning he said it made a ‘direct production’ of electricity. I would take it that means no PV cells. The electrical energy must be taken directly off the reactor somehow.

      • Robert Dorr

        True about the electrical production but I still wonder about the stimulation to startup of the reactor. It may be done externally via possibly RF, magnetic field and or heating.

        • Pweet

          I’m pretty sure it will be started by the simple connection of a low voltage high current pulsed power source across whatever the reactor is. The reactor material will no doubt be electrically conductive and it will probably be claimed that the resistive heat produced initiates some sort of lenr reaction to produce more heat than is electrically fed into it.
          The light emission is not surprising if the temperature can be raised to a very high level without cooking up the reactor (resistor).
          The puzzle will be how is he extracting electrical energy out of the cell.?
          Pulsing the input power means it could be done by way of winding a coil around the cell, but there’s nothing technically new about that.
          I suppose the other more important question is, does it really have a COP of 200? or even 6? The device keeps moving into a form which makes it more and more difficult to determine what the COP is from looking at the demonstration.
          We will just have to wait and see, or wait and not see as is usually the case.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Celani reports that his wire produces current – this has been the case for more than 1 year and he has learned to enhance the effect over the intervening time.

      • INVENTOR INVENTED

        He’s been telling the press that the LENR process makes 300 kV photons. There are ways of generating electricity directly from that radiation.

    • INVENTOR INVENTED

      He’s interested in thermoelectric and thermionic generators. I wrote him about a project at my company.

  • Pweet

    Yes, all terrible people. It just goes to show what a good education at reputable universities can do to people. Some of them were even university professors with phd’s and everything. A few were just ordinary engineers and scientists etc but you would think they would recognize real technology when they saw it. I don’t know, it’s all a bit strange really.

    • The only university professors who have actually laid eyes on the E-Cat and had a chance to poke and prod it, as well as get to know Rossi, claim it works.

      Everybody else is just spewing dogma. But now they have problems with the Standard Model to keep them busy I guess.

      • Pweet

        Yes, that’s true. Although they don’t seem to have said much about it since.
        I think they should come out and comment on some of the later examinations of the science they used to determine the actual temperature of the reactor body, because small errors in temperature make a big difference in energy output calculations.

  • Bob Greenyer

    Given that the photo is of light emitting from from a hole of a 1mm reactor, one can assume that some sort of macro photography was used.

    I would suggest that a 3 blade aperture ‘enlarger’ lense, that is meant for extreme macro photography was used, this may be part of the spectral monitoring system or simply a camera.

    The result would be the triangular appearance of the bright spot in the photo, which would actually have been a point source in reality that would look like a circle with the naked eye.

    http://www.savazzi.net/photography/images/three_blades.JPG

    http://www.creativeshrimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/bokeh_3_blades.jpg

  • Bob Greenyer

    Given that the photo is of light emitting from from a hole of a 1mm reactor, one can assume that some sort of macro photography was used.

    I would suggest that a 3 blade aperture ‘enlarger’ lense, that is meant for extreme macro photography was used, this may be part of the spectral monitoring system or simply a camera.

    The result would be the triangular appearance of the bright spot in the photo, which would actually have been a point source in reality that would look like a circle with the naked eye.

    http://www.savazzi.net/photography/images/three_blades.JPG

    http://www.creativeshrimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/bokeh_3_blades.jpg

    Alternatively a three sided hole punch could have been made in the heat exchanger wall.

  • Bob

    To Bob Greenyer,

    You have been doing some extremely good and open work the past couple of years along with other members of the MFMP team. If I am correct, pretty much concentrating on Nickel / Hydrogen systems.

    .

    With the latest QuarkX running at over 1500C and at a diameter of 1mm, this would mean that any nickel would be melted / in a molten state.

    .

    Many theories put forth so far, such as Ed Storms, state that LENR is a function of a NAE, or microscopic crack in nickel that traps hydrogen atoms. The QuarkX would seem to disprove that as at 1500C plus, the nickel would be molten and no cracks available to continue the reaction.

    .

    Two questions…

    1) Does the Piantelli theory (I believe the one you subscribe too) require the NAE or “cracks”?

    2) If so, how would the molten nickel of the Quarkx fit with this theory?
    Thank you.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Firstly I do not subscribe to Piatelli theory, I am open minded – I need to witness evidence that anything is reality.

      What I do know is that Rossi sought out people involved with Piantelli’s research at the start of his main journey, and to date, IH and Rossi have ONLY attacked Piantellis patents.

      Regarding Piantelli theory, I have described in my videos the reason why you need to seperate atoms inorder to let H- into the transition metal atom. This is to do with bandgap. In solid latices, you need to have discontinuities to allow for Piantelli’s “anharmonic oscillations” – something the Ukranians would call “discrete breathers” to momentarily separate the metal atoms in the lattice or cluster. That is to say that at the nano scale, the temperature of individual atoms can be higher than the mean. In the cavities, this can be resonance related to sub millimeter (THz) capture and surface plasmonic effects which assist the process, and I gave examples in Celani’s work, that of modern solar panel research and in a study conducted by Vitorio Violante.

      Essentially you need a transition to/from a state where the transition metal is in its cluster based conduction and valence band overlap – and the state where they are separated and discrete as in singular atoms. This is achievable in defined structures in lattices (Storms) or clusters (Piantelli) due to energy localisation and an-harmonics or in transitions to mono atomics as in the SunCell (Mills).

      Higher temperatures lead to decreasing band overlap.

      Band separation might also be achieved with multiple elements – but I have not investigated this much.

      I suspect that this reactor uses either Palladium or Platinum in combination with Nickel (preferably of desirable isotope) or Chromium, which has a desirable electronic shell configuration.

      • Bob

        Thank you for your response.
        Since Palladium has a melting point of 1150C it would be molten.
        Chromium and Platinum at about 1800C would still be solid if the Quarkx actually reaches 1500C. As you stated perhaps alloys might be involved..

        • Bob Greenyer

          In my initial “shoot from the hip” comment on the claims, I concluded on the principal transition metal being Platinum. There are epicatalytic advantages in LENR when using Alloys – this has been shown clearly in PdD systems were the lack of secondary/tertiary transition metals was at the root of early failures to replicate P&F. Of course, this kind of attribute is key to Celani wires.

        • Ged

          There are also nickel-tungsten alloys that have over 1700 C melting temps. Tungsten has been viewed as a potential LENR amiable metal too, so such an alloy may be quite effective as well as capable of the temperatures seen in the QuarkX. You can buy such alloys easily enough too.

      • Ged

        Interesting new discovery about neutron decay came out recently that may be useful: https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.242501 0.4 – 14 keV photon radiation from neutron decay puts it squarely in the X-ray range. So, if the reactor gives off neutrons, a certain proportion of those neutrons could be turned into X-rays in that energy range, giving another method of detection if you have a detector that can read that low.

        Edit: Looks like the max energy from the neutron decay spectrum dies out at around 400 keV, but two orders of magnitude more photons are emitted in the 0.4 – 14 keV range than the 200+ keV range according to the paper’s results.

        • Bob Greenyer

          In Santa Cruz we do, the x-ray detectors can read from 3keV

          • Ged

            I do remember the spectrum from the last two GS runs looks quite a bit like this newly measured neutron decay spectrum. It has a much shorter tail than Bremsstrahlung radiation, which is probably the best way to tell them apart (that and the much sharper main peak for Bremsstrahlung). If the two were overlayed and close to the same strength, it could wash out the Bremsstrahlung peak by making it a broader plateau. Just some interesting thoughts from the progress of science.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Yes – good to note.

          • Bob Greenyer

            I have mentioned a few time on our blog and discussed internally that the cause of signal at the high end may be internal bremsstrahlung

            In fact, the capture of H- into a transition metal nucleus may effectively be the reverse of neutron decay and if it is in progress on mass and fails momentarily – that could be the cause of some of our observations.

            Given that we appear to see thermal neutrons now, and others are reporting neutron observations, there could be not only direct Neutron based transmutation, but also Neutron decay yielding a wide range of photon energies.

  • Gerard McEk

    Dear Andrea,

    Your revelation of the QuarkX details has obviously lead to a lot of
    speculation as of how it might work and also to many wrong assumptions,
    because nobody knows exactly how it works, except you. I hope you will
    forgive for us asking you ‘stupid’ questions, based on wrong
    assumptions. Just to check some assumptions, I hope you can confirm
    these for us:

    1. Yes, I have a new Partner in Europe with whom I am going to produce QuarkX in the future.
    “yes, I have a Partner” (Good! But he didn’t confirm Europe or production)
    2. QuarkX’s can be switched on and off in seconds.
    “It will” (Good, it makes it suitable for many purposes)
    3. QuarkX’s are very suitable for jets.
    “Yes” (Good! No steam required.)
    4. The tested 1x30mm Quarks will work for months on one charge.
    “Yes” (I think it is less than a year, but still an amazing Energy content)
    5. QuarkX’s cannot be recharged.
    “Wrong” (I would need three reading glasses for doing that ;-))
    6. QuarkX’s outperform E-cats in many aspects
    “Maybe” (Maybe also the E-cat can be improved with the new knowledge?)
    7. QuarkX’s differ so much from E-cats that they can hardly be compared and require new patents.
    “the work on patents is dynamic, not static” (I had hoped this question would give some insight on why IH did not want to pay the 89M$. If the QuarkX is so much different than the Ecat for which they had the IP and AR wouldn’t share that with them, that may be the reason. This answer does not bring us further).
    Thank you for answering our questions.

    • DrD

      Steam could still be one of many options for the jet engine.

  • Axil Axil

    The Reduced size of the Quark is a safety feature. If the micro quark melts down, the amount of energy produce os manageably small. For example during a meltdown, If the power produced by the Quark increases by a factor of 10, only a 1000 watts must be contained.

    That is compared to a large format reactor whose power output is 250 kilowatts. During a meltdown of the large reactor the power produced would reach 2.5 megawatts.

    Rossi might not want all the Quarks wired together to avoid a cascade meltdown where the meltdown spreads from one micro reactor to another like a wildfire.

    • Bob Greenyer

      Also it provides opportunity for redundancy and fault tolerance by having say 13 units in a device designed to deliver the power from 10, if 1 was to fail in a power delivery period, a backup could be electronically switched in.

      Furthermore – it enables load matching. 1 – 10 units could be operated and controlled to yield more or less of a desired output energy form.

      • Axil Axil

        Each Quark reactor would need to be wired into the control box separately. This increases the complication of the control box s great deal. Some sort of wiring scheme must be invented that keeps the connectivity problems to a minimum. Maybe Rossi’s partner can help with that design,

        IMHO, that wiring plan would be a difficult problem. A 1 MW plant would require a over a 1000 Quarks reactors. That is a lot of wiring,

        • Karl Venter

          Hi Axil

          could it need only stimulation ( maybe Rf/IR) to keep it operating other than physical wiring 40 mA at 12V is very small dc but RF?

          • Axil Axil

            This reactor needs a complicated waveform signal for activation. The EMF interference would be intense, the noize would be heavy. Never say never but it would be difficult to avoid direct wiring. There is also a requirement for a power feed of .5 to 1 watt.

          • Bob Greenyer

            Could be connected on a grid basis or common plates and relays – but these are engineering issues. Certainly there are many approaches to delivering connection and control over multiple functional units.

            As Karl says, drive could be controlled delivery of RF/MW.

            1 guy made this.

            https://youtu.be/73h4cjTeX44

            He added the LEDs so you could monitor the execution of code.

            The control array and wiring for 1000 reactors would be trivial by comparison.

          • Axil Axil

            I contend that the environment around the Quark Micro Reactor is problematic for control. Although it is small, the Quark is a nuclear reactor.

            1 – there is interference from intense RF coming from the reactor.

            2 – there is a huge amounts of electrostatic charge accumulation emanating from the reactor.

            3 – There is muons and other subatomic particles being produced and decaying producing electons.

            3a – excess electrons are being collected by as yet to be identified technologies,

            4 – there is a massive amount of magnetic fields being generated.

            5 – there are XUV and X-rays being produced.

            6 – there are muon catalyzed fusion going on

            In conclusion, Rossi states as follows:

            You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection? Rossi: to provide protection not just to the eyes

          • Bob Greenyer

            What I have observed in experiments we have conducted would support 5 and 3a.

            I have not had any time with the claimed device, so I could not comment on the assertion 1, 2, 3 (muons), 4 or 6.

            Rossi’s statement would be true if only considering 5 and 3a were true for his claimed device also.

        • DrD

          It certainly is.
          Actually it’s atleast 10,000.
          Nevertheless, imagine how many pixels are being independantly controlled right in front you as you read this.
          Of course they don’t see 1500 degC and who knows what else.

    • Gerard McEk

      I believe that AR main reason to downscale the power/size is because of the power controllability. He wants to make a jet with it and you must be able to control the jet power.

      • INVENTOR INVENTED

        I think its because he’s in a hurry to sell a working product to show the world.So he’s selling a stripped down version that’s cheap.

  • Stephen

    Its interesting that Andrea Rossi says that the size of the quarks is “fundamental” and will not be made smaller. This to me implies that they are the smallest size possible for some reason. I suppose this could be practical ease of use limitations or manufacturing limitations but I get the feeling from what he says that it is a constraint from the technology point of view. I wonder what physics, chemical, structural or engineering constraints could become limited at this size

    • Bob Greenyer

      I gave suggested reasoning below.

    • Axil Axil

      As the size of the Quark is reduced, the reactor control issues increase in like proportions.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Imagine lights in your house, that were heaters too, each individually stimulated by house grid power, but feeding back surplus electricity into the house grid to power other devices in the house…

        …now scale that up to a city and it starts to sound like a dream someone once claimed to have had.

      • kenko1

        agreed.

    • DrD

      I assume “reduced” means from the earlier 300×10 mm pencil claim to the current 30×1 mm (tooth pick?) and NOT the power output. Though it could be either except there’s also another Q&A which is clearly related to physical dimensions.

  • Stephen

    Its interesting that Andrea Rossi says that the size of the quarks is “fundamental” and will not be made smaller. This to me implies that they are the smallest size possible for some reason. I suppose this could be practical ease of use limitations or manufacturing limitations but I get the feeling from what he says that it is a constraint from the technology point of view. I wonder what physics, chemical, structural or engineering constraints could become limited at this size

    • Bob Greenyer

      I gave suggested reasoning below.

    • Axil Axil

      As the size of the Quark is reduced, the reactor control issues increase in like proportions.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Imagine lights in your house, that were heaters too, each individually stimulated by house grid power, but feeding back surplus electricity into the house grid to power other devices in the home…

        …now scale that up to a city and it starts to sound like a dream someone once claimed to have had.

    • DrD

      I assume “reduced” means from the earlier 300×10 mm pencil claim to the current 30×1 mm (tooth pick?) and NOT the power output. Though it could be either except there’s also another Q&A which is clearly related to physical dimensions.

    • Probably, if you make them too small, the reactor lose energy faster than it is able to produce.

      Energy is dissipated based on the temperature and surface of the reactor but it is generated based on the volume of the reactor.

      For example:
      if the size increase ten times, the surface increase 100 times, the volume increase 1000 times.
      Energy produced increase 1000 but energy dissipates increase only 100 (at the same temperature). This cause the temperature of the reactor to increase until the energy dissipated is on par of the energy produced.

  • I’m always happy to run across a sincere skeptic. I don’t agree with your characterization that Rossi’s word is gospel here. Some may feel that way but for the most part I see a curious crowd excited by a potentially world-changing technology, picking apart every morsel of information that becomes available to us… trying to make it all fit together.

    We objectively observe that often (not always) what Rossi claims comes to pass. If you remember (back to the good old days of 2012), Rossi was trumpeting a new American partner and ongoing independent 3rd party tests. The skeptics laughed and scoffed, citing over and over Rossi’s past and how it was all just a show for duping the gullible. Well those things wound up being 100% true,

    Evidence like that makes us pay close attention to what the man says and does. But that’s not the same as taking the man at his word. Yes we will analyze the things he says as if they were true. But don’t mistake that for blanket acceptance. You will also find posters placing special emphasis on corroboration and circumstantial evidence that argues both for and against certain scenarios.

    The number of improbable things that one must believe in order to assert fraud as the leading scenario is large and growing:

    * Tricked Focardi.
    * Tricked Fioravanti and Lewan.
    * Triggered a fake burst of gamma rays hoping Celani would pick it up.
    * Conspiring with Levi.
    * Conspiring with Penon.
    * Left his scam device with a team of professors to do with as they pleased for six months confident they would think it worked.
    * Swapped in fake ash for the real ash at the end of the Lugano test like a magician despite being observed.
    * Tricked Darden and Vaughn despite months of acceptance testing.
    * Tricked the engineers of Industrial Heat over a year long period, despite daily feedback, quarterly reports and IH using the facility to garner at least $50M in additional investment
    * Conspiring with Fulvio Fabiani.
    * Unsatisfied with $11.5M in scammed profits
    * Willing to bare all in court despite not having working tech and over-matched legal representation
    * Willing to attempt to trick another entity out of cash with magic toothpicks the claims about which could be easily disproved with simple measurements

    On and on.

    You see it’s the skeptics at this point who believe in a broad conspiracy theory with numerous elements that don’t pass the common sense test. The one serious contention the skeptics can hold on to is Industrial Heat’s claim of inability to substantiate the tech and a flawed test. But IH’s motives are highly suspect, with $89M on the line and perhaps knowledge that the new QuarkX technology is going to knock them out of the game permanently unless they can force an IP transfer.

    • psi2u2

      Yes, good summary.

  • However many times it takes.

    Whatever the truth turns out to be in this incredible drama, I am its staunch ally and advocate.

  • Axil Axil

    Andrea Rossi
    June 15, 2016 at 6:08 PM
    Ovidiu Herlea:
    Thank you for the suggestion: I need to add a Physicist specialized in optics and photonics to the Team.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Maybe the blue light of the QuarkX has finally shown Rossi the proper path to valid LENR theory. We can only hope…

    • tlp

      The COP of around 125 BLP measured in their latest published video demo is very well inline with their theoretical calculations, how much predicted type of hydrino reactions yield energy.
      In two weeks at their demo event (28th June) Mills is going to tell more about this.

      • builditnow

        I’d be thrilled if BLP is on to something, however, watching their video’s, I’m so unconvinced by the people surrounding Mills, totally unimpressive yes men. Mills puts on a master display of puffed up ego. The tests are “so” unconvincing done by very unconvincing people. It puts my belief factor at 1% probably true. Hope I’m wrong, not holding my breath.

      • Axil Axil

        Please write an informative post with links to Mills discussions here on ECW so we can discuss this.

        • tlp

          http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/DSC_051914.pdf

          gives upper limit for the COP:
          “The nascent H2O molecule formed by an oxidation reaction of OH- at a hydrogen anode is predicted to serve as a catalyst to form H (1 / 4) with an energy release of 204 eV compared to the 1.48 eV required to produce H from electrolysis of H2O. ”

          204/1.48 = 138

  • Axil Axil

    Andrea Rossi
    June 15, 2016 at 6:08 PM
    Ovidiu Herlea:
    Thank you for the suggestion: I need to add a Physicist specialized in optics and photonics to the Team.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Maybe the blue light of the QuarkX has finally shown Rossi the proper path to valid LENR theory.

    Brilliant Light Power (BLP)also sees light as a path to a new energy source.

    BLP: “Proof of a new energy source is provided by two otherwise inexplicable observations: (i) The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy. (ii) The emission of soft X-ray radiation at a voltage far less than that of the light energy produced and the inability of any known chemistry to release such high energy.”

    BLP realizes that the hydrino theory is not able to support the magnitude of the power produced during the meltdown of their SunCell reactor.

    The lack of educational background and interest in optics, photonics, and nanotechnology among LENR advocates makes exploration of the role light plays in LENR problematic among rank and file LENRests.

    The bottom line, the road to understanding the LENR reaction is rooted in the photon as the active agent in LENR.

    • tlp

      The COP of around 125 BLP measured in their latest published video demo is very well inline with their theoretical calculations, how much predicted type of hydrino reactions yield energy.
      In two weeks at their demo event (28th June) Mills is going to tell more about this.

      • builditnow

        I’d be thrilled if BLP is on to something, however, watching their video’s, I’m so unconvinced by the people surrounding Mills, totally unimpressive yes men. Mills puts on a master display of puffed up ego. The tests are “so” unconvincing done by very unconvincing people. It puts my belief factor at 1% probably true. Hope I’m wrong, not holding my breath.

      • Axil Axil

        Tip: Please write an informative post with links to Mills discussions here on ECW so we can discuss this.

        • tlp

          http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/DSC_051914.pdf

          gives upper limit for the COP:
          “The nascent H2O molecule formed by an oxidation reaction of OH- at a hydrogen anode is predicted to serve as a catalyst to form H (1 / 4) with an energy release of 204 eV compared to the 1.48 eV required to produce H from electrolysis of H2O. ”

          204/1.48 = 138

  • Pweet

    No. I wouldn’t bother, even though I know he would be quite happy to do so.
    I recall that there were claims his original ecat technology was a rip off of earlier lenr tech from others using Focardi as a conduit.
    Lots of technology is based on ideas of others and in the event that something actually comes of it, the original source is rarely recognized.
    I was amazed at the similarity between the early microsoft DOS and the previous supposedly unrelated CPM operating system. Two systems which did the same job in the same way with virtually a duplicate command set, but two different designers, supposedly.
    I don’t think so.

  • LilyLover

    Just denoting my joy!!
    !i!i!i!i!i How’s that for Matchstick size?

  • LilyLover

    Just denoting my joy!!
    !i!i!i!i!i How’s that for Matchstick size?

  • psi2u2

    The nano neutrino quark-x kitten.

  • Engineer48

    Ref the image Rossi supplied.
    http://1zi1nw7qb8j26yrfx15kzsp4.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/quark.jpg

    In these 2 images, attached, only the brightest fully saturated pixels are shown. In one image the Blue pixels were removed to aid study of the central Pink and Red pixels.

    Clearly the brightest Pinkish pixels do suggest an roundish shape, which to me suggests they originated inside the pipe and passed through the hole drilled in the heat exchanger that contained the QuarkX reactor.

    However the Blue pixels are not suggestive of a roundish shape and may indicate they were created outside the hole in the pipe and via some interaction with the atmospheric gasses.
    .

    • Zeddicus23

      This is consistent with some sort of ionizing radiation (electrons, e.g. beta radiation?) which interacts with the nitrogen in air.

      • Axil Axil

        If the blue light were caused by electrons passing through a small hole in the metal protection shield, pin hole interference pattern would be seen.

        https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWqA52u553V0xm_zJ6S0c77OD7haah-Wh50QqhADY9Hut0ah5ILg

        Yet, there does look like some of the light was produced outside of the hole.

        Photo Courtesy of Engineer 48 shows the following.

        There does look like there is light production outside of the protection shield but the means of production is not electrons. The cause looks like it is activating at random over a wide spread distance after it has been dispersed through the pinhole and mixed in the air. Muons are a possible cause or exotic neutral particles(ENP) might be doing it. These ENP ball lightning like objects are what Fabiani is describing when he talks about points of light melting down a Rossi reactor. Rossi said that not only intense light must be shielded but also other things. ENP might be produced and released in abundance in the Quark reactor. There is some sort of reactive element coming out of that reactor.

        Frank Acland:
        4. You say the photo was taken through a hole in a pipe — are the QuarkXs enclosed in a pipe during normal operation to provide eye protection?

        Rossi:

        4- to provide protection not just to the eyes

    • Engineer48

      Here is the Histogram data, which shows a strong energy shift to the Blue.

      You can also see there are fully saturated pixels at the extreme right at each colour, so the earlier image of only the fully saturated pixels may be real or may be due to image processing.
      .

  • INVENTOR INVENTED

    Is he going to be dealing quark-x’s any time soon? Independent labs should buy them and test them. I expect they wont be sold in the time frame he said they will and there will be more controversy.

  • Axil Axil

    Sebastian
    June 16, 2016 at 3:45 PM
    Dear Andrea,

    I think John Atkinson had an interesting question. Where I live, power goes down very frequently, sometimes for days.

    1) If you’re running a quark, and the power goes down, will it just turn off safely?

    2) If power is out for a few days, can you run a quark on back up generator?

    3) can you run it on a backup battery system safely?

    4) If yes to 3, can you use the same Quark to charge the battery it is running on?

    5) If no to 4, can you run a quark on battery, use it to charge a second battery, and switch batteries when needed?

    Thanks!

    Andrea Rossi
    June 16, 2016 at 4:03 PM
    Sebastian:
    Obviously with John Atkinson I was joking.
    Surely a back up generator resolves the problem.
    The answer is yes to the questions 1 2 3 4.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    —————————————————–
    Rossi could set up a black box demo that can drive a load (light bulb) to prove that the Quark can produce more power than any battery can store.

  • LCD

    It’s time to make a damn product though. Nuff talk.

  • Stephen

    It seems to me that there is more of the blue aura at the top of the picture than on either side or below the central bright spot.

    If it was due to prompt radiation from high energy particles may be would expect a more symmetrical effect maybe a circular halo?

    Was any such circular halo seen in any of the processed images?

    Assuming the top of the picture is up. Would this imply we have a plume of radiant gas that is either hotter or lighter than the surrounding air?

    Could ionized or highly excited hydrogen, nitrogen or oxygen (O+ for example) behave like this and emit balmer emissions of this colour during the decay? If so could lower energy red balmer emissions be suppressed or forbidden due to some reason?

    Would protons generated directly from the device or neutron decay generate this colour radiation if they capture an electron to form hydrogen gas?

    If atomic hydrogen forms H2 are any emissions produced?

    If hydrogen gas burns in Oxygen does it emit this colour?

    Could Balmer emission from Helium radiate at these wave lengths?

    • Stephen

      I suppose if the emission is from Balmer emissions from an excited gas and if there is a different latency with the emissions at different frequencies there might be a signature in the image as the gas disperses.

      If we imagine the elements in the surrounding air for example Nitrogen gas is being excited directly in front of the hole by radiation perhaps by particles or XRays or UV emission from the device these then these excited atoms disperse in the air surrounding the hole emitting Balmer emissions as they disperse. perhaps due to latency in the emissions red emissions occur first and closer to the hole then higher energy blue emissions occur later at a greater dispersion distance. The colour of these emissions and dispersion distance would maybe say something about which elements in the air were excited and the maximum excitement energy of the original stimulation as well.

      Would by interesting if Lyman series emissions are also present as I suppose this may be a consequence of auger electron emissions.

      • sam

        Does anyone have an opinion on what Butch says.
        Butch
        June 26, 2016 at 2:32 PM
        Dr Andrea Rossi,
        I have analized the blue halo of the photo you published after the test with the QuarkX and I understand perfectly : congratulations, you really made it.
        I also understand what you mean when you say that theoretical progress has been made. The photo is absolutely genuine, even if you made it in low definition format.

        Andrea Rossi
        June 26, 2016 at 6:11 PM
        Butch:
        Thank you,
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

  • Stephen

    It seems to me that there is more of the blue aura at the top of the picture than on either side or below the central bright spot.

    If it was due to prompt radiation from high energy particles may be would expect a more symmetrical effect maybe a circular halo?

    Was any such circular halo seen in any of the processed images?

    Assuming the top of the picture is up. Would this imply we have a plume of radiant gas that is either hotter or lighter than the surrounding air?

    Could ionized or highly excited hydrogen, nitrogen or oxygen (O+ for example) behave like this and emit balmer emissions of this colour during the decay? If so could lower energy red balmer emissions be suppressed or forbidden due to some reason?

    Would protons generated directly from the device or neutron decay generate this colour radiation if they capture an electron to form hydrogen gas?

    If atomic hydrogen forms H2 are any emissions produced?

    If hydrogen gas burns in Oxygen does it emit this colour?

    Could Balmer emission from Helium radiate at these wave lengths?

    Can one of these chemical or Ionising effects generate emissions of sufficient intensities? Or is some other effect or sustained stimulus required?

    I wonder if any released UDH could emit at these wave lengths as they convert back to normal Hydrogen matter.

    I suppose any UV or IR spectra from other emission series could be very interesting too if they occur

    • Stephen

      I suppose if the emission is from Balmer emissions from an excited gas and if there is a different latency with the emissions at different frequencies there might be a signature in the image as the gas disperses.

      If we imagine the elements in the surrounding air for example Nitrogen gas is being excited directly in front of the hole by radiation perhaps by particles or XRays or UV emission from the device these then these excited atoms disperse in the air surrounding the hole emitting Balmer emissions as they disperse. perhaps due to latency in the emissions red emissions occur first and closer to the hole then higher energy blue emissions occur later at a greater dispersion distance. The colour of these emissions and dispersion distance and associated latency would maybe say something about which elements in the air were excited and perhaps the maximum excitement energy of the original stimulation as well.

      If it is not an optical effect perhaps it explains a bit the inverted triangle of red emission relative to the hole. Since more stimulation gas would be along those edges compared to the points of the triangular hole.

      As well as the air in front of the hole this could also be true of any gasses emitted through the hole such as helium say if present

      Would be interesting if Lyman series emissions are also present as I suppose this may be a consequence of auger electron emissions.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    It reminds peeping through the keyhole. Nothing is clear except for a large source of 1500 Celsius.

  • sam

    Does anyone have an opinion on what Butch says.
    Butch
    June 26, 2016 at 2:32 PM
    Dr Andrea Rossi,
    I have analized the blue halo of the photo you published after the test with the QuarkX and I understand perfectly : congratulations, you really made it.
    I also understand what you mean when you say that theoretical progress has been made. The photo is absolutely genuine, even if you made it in low definition format.

    Andrea Rossi
    June 26, 2016 at 6:11 PM
    Butch:
    Thank you,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    This is very similar to the light from a lamp or Nernst Auer cap for gas glow lampy. May be Rossi ability to use thorium oxide mixed with yttrium for microwave excitation reaction.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    This is very similar to the light from a lamp or Nernst Auer cap for gas glow lampy. May be Rossi ability to use thorium oxide mixed with yttrium for microwave excitation reaction.

  • sam

    This is the “Lords Day”

  • sam

    This is the “Lords Day”