Remote Area / Disaster Relief AC/DC power, Heated air, Warm Water and Clean Water E-Cat QuarkX System Concept (Engineer48)

Yesterday on this site Engineer48 posted a schematic for a concept of what he calls a “Remote Area / Disaster Relief AC/DC power, heated air, warm water and clean water system” to be powered by E-Cat QuarkX reactors. Engineer48 states that he has been in contact with Andrea Rossi about the idea, and Rossi has responded favorably to it.

Of course it is early days, and we can’t know how easy this will be to pull off, but I find the concept intriguing, especially since the system is designed to be able to be powered by electricity output from the QuarkX reactor itself via a current rectifier/battery setup. In essence this would make it a self-looped setup. The image below shows the proposed system.

QuarkXRemoteAreaandEmergencyPowerSystem23June2016a

If it works, one can see how valuable it would be in a remote area or emergency, where no mains electricity is available. It would have the ability to produce heated air and/or water, clean water via a distillation process, and also some AC and DC output (since the QuarkX apparently produces electricity directly).

Rossi has expressed to Engineer48 his willingness to cooperate when he is ready; at this point we can’t really know when that will be, but I would like to see a prototype of this system up and running.

  • Engineer48

    Wow Frank!

    Thanks. Will keep this updated.

  • Engineer48

    Wow Frank!

    Thanks. Will keep this updated.

  • Alan Smith

    If it helps I have a paper or two somewhere (my own) on the effect of systems like this – and also their usefulness in the alleviation of poverty in the developing world. For example, the ground around every village in Africa is always bare. Why? Because every scrap of vegetation that could be burnt is burnt to cook. And because there is no vegetation there are fewer insects and this makes it harder to keep chickens (for example).
    There is a whole chain of cause and effect that keeps people poor. This is just one example.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      Yes I know that. Been there, seen that.

      There is also the possibility to pull water out of the air via a chiller system but don’t yet know much about the engineering needed. Will however find it out.

      Please post your paper, would love to read it.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yes, pulling water out of air via a chiller would be important tech. By default more widely applicable than desalination (not to undermine the latter, but it’s only useful near the coastline).

      • DrD

        Absorption refrigeration might be the way to go, with no mechanical moving parts it uses heat (i.e. directly from the Quark’s) to drive the refrigeration cycle (chiller).
        http://www.brighthubengineering.com/hvac/65923-simple-vapor-absorption-refrigeration-system/

      • Alan Smith

        ok -When I find it. It’s all about the difference 200 watts makes to a whole family.

    • PappyYokum

      That is all well and good, but a major root cause of problems in rural Africa is government corruption and crime. Often infrastructure installed to improve lives gets torn up and sold for scrap by thieves if the people can get past the graft of officialdom to get the infrastructure installed in the first place.
      A fellow I know told me he lost money he invested in a fertilizer plant to be built in Africa due to the fact every government bureaucrat wanted a bribe and a piece of the action before the permits to build it could be obtained.
      Africa would attract a lot more investment if the people there were not all about killing the goose.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Pappy,

        Yup.

        Have seen that 1st hand, it is a very serious problem.

        Have lost many potential contracts as I refused to pass an envelope full of money under the door.

      • Alan Smith

        I agree absolutely. But if we do nothing, it remains the same. It is my hope that there comes some kind of critical point where people learn to believe in tomorrow, and not just grab what they can today.

        • HS61AF91

          I believe that this point is approaching, when people will simply not tolerate bribes and control of producing, due to it becoming a life and death matter, worldwide. With resources of all kinds diminishing, it won’t be long before the advent of any type of E-Cat QuarkX or similar will be the saving factor. Prayer or positive thinking will also help move this along. (I’m real positive, and expect our Creator to respond, Love being what it is.

  • Alan Smith

    If it helps I have a paper or two somewhere (my own) on the effect of systems like this – and also their usefulness in the alleviation of poverty in the developing world. For example, the ground around every village in Africa is always bare. Why? Because every scrap of vegetation that could be burnt is burnt to cook. And because there is no vegetation there are fewer insects and this makes it harder to keep chickens (for example).
    There is a whole chain of cause and effect that keeps people poor. This is just one example.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Alan,

      Yes I know that. Been there, seen that.

      There is also the possibility to pull water out of the air via a chiller system but don’t yet know much about the engineering needed. Will however find it out.

      Please post your paper, would love to read it.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Yes, pulling water out of air via a chiller would be important tech. By default more widely applicable than desalination (not to undermine the latter, but it’s only useful near the coastline).

      • DrD

        Absorption refrigeration might be the way to go, with no mechanical moving parts it uses heat (i.e. directly from the Quark’s) to drive the refrigeration cycle (to the chiller).
        http://www.brighthubengineering.com/hvac/65923-simple-vapor-absorption-refrigeration-system/

      • Alan Smith

        ok -When I find it. It’s all about the difference 200 watts makes to a whole family.

    • PappyYokum

      That is all well and good, but a major root cause of problems in rural Africa is government corruption and crime. Often infrastructure installed to improve lives gets torn up and sold for scrap by thieves if the people can get past the graft of officialdom to get the infrastructure installed in the first place.
      A fellow I know told me he lost money he invested in a fertilizer plant to be built in Africa due to the fact every government bureaucrat wanted a bribe and a piece of the action before the permits to build it could be obtained.
      Africa would attract a lot more investment if the people there were not all about killing the goose.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Pappy,

        Yup.

        Have seen that 1st hand, it is a very serious problem.

        Have lost many potential contracts as I refused to pass an envelope full of money under the door.

      • Alan Smith

        I agree absolutely. But if we do nothing, it remains the same. It is my hope that there comes some kind of critical point where people learn to believe in tomorrow, and not just grab what they can today.

        • HS61AF91

          I believe that this point is approaching, when people will simply not tolerate bribes and control of producing, due to it becoming a life and death matter, worldwide. With resources of all kinds diminishing, it won’t be long before the advent of any type of E-Cat QuarkX or similar will be the saving factor. Prayer or positive thinking will also help move this along. (I’m real positive, and expect our Creator to respond, Love being what it is.)

  • MasterBlaster7

    Sounds suspiciously like a GX-8 water vaporator.

    • Engineer48

      Hi MB,

      Nice 😉

      A GX-8 water vaporator.

  • MasterBlaster7

    Sounds suspiciously like a GX-8 water vaporator.

    • Engineer48

      Hi MB,

      Nice 😉

      A GX-8 water vaporator.

  • Curbina

    This is the kind of stuff I live for. The water evaporation/condensing part is where I think the cheap heat of ECat can make the miracle. There’s an assortment of technologies To pick from but I think that multi stage flash distillation would be the perfect fit for this system as the vaccum pumps could be run on energy produced by the quark x’s array.

  • Curbina

    This is the kind of stuff I live for. The water evaporation/condensing part is where I think the cheap heat of ECat can make the miracle. There’s an assortment of technologies To pick from but I think that multi stage flash distillation would be the perfect fit for this system as the vaccum pumps could be run on energy produced by the quark x’s array.

    • GiveADogABone

      We seem to be moving on from the ‘Remote Area / Disaster Relief AC/DC power’ concept that would imply light, portable, simple, maintainable in the field and able to be transported by aircraft and slung under a helicopter. What is the weight limit for the concept?

  • Stephen

    @Engineer48. You also fully deserve a Wow!

    Fantastic idea!

  • Stephen

    @Engineer48. You also fully deserve a Wow!

    Fantastic idea!

  • Engineer48

    My thoughts are to set up a Not For Profit business to manufacture the plants and then to work directly with selected aid providers and community groups in remote areas.

    There will not be a traditional distribution and sales structure that will extract profit but deliver very little benefit to remote communities.

    Last thing I want is for these plants to end up powering a MacMansion instead of a remote village. So the distribution system needs to be tight, with integrated remote location and performance data and maybe a remote shutdown capability to deter plants being stolen.

    Also need to train locals in the villages on maintenance & plug & play faulty module replacements or upgrades. If designed in at the start, this is very low cost & reduces plant lifetime reliability issues, thus boosting overall MTBF and reducing MTTR.

    • Stephen

      When this gets off the ground it could be a great idea to crowd fund part of its development and distribution.

      A great way for people to feel part of something that gives hope to other people in need.

      I quite like the idea of a crowd funded GX-8 for capturing people’s imagination 🙂

      • Engineer48

        Hi Stephen,

        I may be too old school to think or operate that way.

        But your suggestion has merit in that it gives back some sense of ownership to a planet wide caring community.

        Might consider an engraved list of contributors to that plants production, to lower the cost of ownership to the remote community.

        Early days yet, much to think about & consider.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Stephen,

        Doing schools & hospitals as priority is an excellent suggestion. But also need to target the villages serviced by the hospital as why send people leaving hospital back to the same enviroment that sent them into the hospital in the 1st place?

      • HS61AF91

        How about thinking not so far from home too. Intros into Detroit, the various reservations, the bankrupt California municipalities, can ignite ‘grass root’ demand that would be hard to dampen, as well. I can imagine a plethora of places right here that would benefit, plus all those closed up factories that could retool, and produce.

    • Observer

      You need to address maintenance, cost of ownership, and re-sale. It is not easy for poor people to own nice things that are in high demand.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Observer,

        It does help if making plant ownership easier is the intent of the business.

        • Observer

          I fear what will happen when the poachers come.

          You cannot own something if you cannot defend your right to own it.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer,

            It will weigh around 4 tons. Plus will have GPS and motion sensors which will disable the plant if it moves. Probably also have 24/7 internal & external video from each corner.

            To restart will need an internet connection to the factory.

            So not worth the effort to steal.

      • georgehants

        Observer, with no profit involved, any country has only to educate the number of people needed to do all repairs servicing etc. totally free of charge.
        Only the organisation of labour has any importance in this World.

        • Observer

          And that is why the land phone lines work so well in Africa.

          • georgehants

            Observer, problems everywhere to put right when people begin to care enough.
            ———-
            1 in 6 people in America face hunger.
            The USDA defines “food insecurity” as the lack
            of access, at times, to enough food for all household members. In 2011, households with children reported a significantly higher food insecurity rate than households without children: 20.6% vs. 12.2%.
            Food insecurity exists in every county in
            America. In 2013, 17.5 million households were food insecure. More and more people are relying on food banks and pantries. Collect food outside your local supermarket for a local food bank.
            https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-hunger-us

    • georgehants

      Engineer48, congratulations, I think when many more educated, thinking people begin to follow your caring and sharing lead for the benefit of all mankind, then we may see a tremendous improvement in the material fairness of the World and a powerful feeling of worth for every person involved.
      The epidemic of modern psychological and long term disease suffering would also hopefully, be to a great extent improved.
      Best

    • TomR

      I think I read all the replies to this post and I want thank you for what you are doing Engineer48. You might know that almost every one of your posts has a like from me. I really like your idea of a remote shut down and possibly even a remotely controlled or if relocated to a new place, a self destruct device that would make stealing it a useless act.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Tom,

        Appreciated.

        Never self destruct. Make it shut down, sure. Sensors can detect long term movement and do a safety shutdown, which needs security code to restart or maybe remote site sat link to restart.

  • Engineer48

    My thoughts are to set up a Not For Profit business to manufacture the plants and then to work directly with selected aid providers and community groups in remote areas.

    There will not be a traditional distribution and sales structure that will extract profit but deliver very little benefit to remote communities.

    Last thing I want is for these plants to end up powering a MacMansion instead of a remote village. So the distribution system needs to be tight, with integrated remote location and performance data and maybe a remote shutdown capability to deter plants being stolen.

    Also need to train locals in the villages on maintenance & plug & play faulty module replacements or upgrades. If designed in at the start, this is very low cost & reduces plant lifetime reliability issues, thus boosting overall MTBF and reducing MTTR.

    • Stephen

      When this gets off the ground it could be a great idea to crowd fund part of its development and distribution.

      A great way for people to feel part of something that gives hope to other people in need.

      I quite like the idea of a crowd funded GX-8 with a LENR power source for capturing people’s imagination 🙂

      I wonder if Water Aid or some such organisation could provide information about how many would be required and where this kind of device could be needed and help with the distribution. And perhaps provide voluntary engineering support.

      Initial distribution to schools and hospitals in remote areas would already be something amazing.

      Perhaps it can also charge and power drones to distribute medicines and needed supplies to remote villages.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36414938

      • Engineer48

        Hi Stephen,

        I may be too old school to think or operate that way.

        But your suggestion has merit in that it gives back some sense of ownership to a planet wide caring community.

        Might consider an engraved list of contributors to that plants production, to lower the cost of ownership to the remote community.

        Early days yet, much to think about & consider.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Stephen,

        Doing schools & hospitals as priority is an excellent suggestion. But also need to target the villages serviced by the hospital as why send people leaving hospital back to the same enviroment that sent them into the hospital in the 1st place?

      • HS61AF91

        How about thinking not so far from home too. Intros into Detroit, the various reservations, the bankrupt California municipalities, can ignite ‘grass root’ demand that would be hard to dampen, as well. I can imagine a plethora of places right here that would benefit, plus all those closed up factories that could retool, and produce.

    • Also an engineer

      A mac mansion is the first thing to power. This will allow the system to be tested continuously before it is deployed to the field. You might even find a mac mansion owner to fund the development if they get the first system.

    • Observer

      You need to address maintenance, cost of ownership, and re-sale. It is not easy for poor people to own nice things that are in high demand.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Observer,

        It does help if making plant ownership easier is the intent of the business.

        • Observer

          I fear what will happen when the poachers come.

          You cannot own something if you cannot defend your right to own it.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer,

            It will weigh around 4 tons. Plus will have GPS and motion sensors which will disable the plant if it moves. Probably also have 24/7 internal & external video from each corner.

            To restart will need an internet connection to the factory.

            So not worth the effort to steal.

      • georgehants

        Observer, with no profit involved, any country has only to educate the number of people needed to do all repairs servicing etc. totally free of charge.
        Only the organisation of labour has any importance in this World.

        • Observer

          And that is why the land phone lines work so well in Africa.

          • georgehants

            Observer, problems everywhere to put right when people begin to care enough.
            ———-
            1 in 6 people in America face hunger.
            The USDA defines “food insecurity” as the lack
            of access, at times, to enough food for all household members. In 2011, households with children reported a significantly higher food insecurity rate than households without children: 20.6% vs. 12.2%.
            Food insecurity exists in every county in
            America. In 2013, 17.5 million households were food insecure. More and more people are relying on food banks and pantries. Collect food outside your local supermarket for a local food bank.
            https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-hunger-us

          • Christina

            Africa and other poor regions of the world would have been helped long ago if communist guerrillas and maybe others had not stolen the food and the improvements the people of the rich nations have given to the people of the poor nations.

            This was a problem through the sixties to the nineties and until now.

          • georgehants

            Christina, so you believe it is “the communists” that are causing widespread hunger for the American poor, my link above.
            Interesting conclusion.

      • roseland67

        Observer,
        And the very real possibility that the entire plant is simply stolen at gunpoint

    • georgehants

      Engineer48, congratulations, I think when many more educated, thinking people begin to follow your caring and sharing lead for the benefit of all mankind, then we may see a tremendous improvement in the material fairness of the World and a powerful feeling of worth for every person involved.
      The epidemic of modern psychological and long term disease suffering would also hopefully, be to a great extent improved.
      Best

    • TomR

      I think I read all the replies to this post and I want thank you for what you are doing Engineer48. You might know that almost every one of your posts has a like from me. I really like your idea of a remote shut down and possibly even a remotely controlled or if relocated to a new place, a self destruct device that would make stealing it a useless act.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Tom,

        Appreciated.

        Never self destruct. Make it shut down, sure. Sensors can detect long term movement and do a safety shutdown, which needs security code to restart or maybe remote site sat link to restart.

  • Engineer48

    Posted to Andrea’s blog:

    Engineer48
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    June 22, 2016 at 8:11 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    Your blog readers may find the topic Frank at ECW has setup to discuss my QuarkX powered Remote Area plant of interest:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/22/remote-area-disaster-relief-acdc-power-heated-air-warm-water-and-clean-water-e-cat-quarkx-system-concept-engineer48/

    As far as I know this is the 1st forum to discuss a commercial applications of your LENR reactors.

    I intend to set up a Not For Profit business to manufacture the plants and to do direct distribution to remote community groups with locals trained to do basic plant maintenance plus unplug & replace module failure recovery.

    Your encouragement, support & advise is always highly appreciated.

  • Engineer48

    Posted to Andrea’s blog:

    Engineer48
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    June 22, 2016 at 8:11 AM

    Dear Andrea,

    Your blog readers may find the topic Frank at ECW has setup to discuss my QuarkX powered Remote Area plant of interest:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/22/remote-area-disaster-relief-acdc-power-heated-air-warm-water-and-clean-water-e-cat-quarkx-system-concept-engineer48/

    As far as I know this is the 1st forum to discuss a commercial applications of your LENR reactors.

    I intend to set up a Not For Profit business to manufacture the plants and to do direct distribution to remote community groups with locals trained to do basic plant maintenance plus unplug & replace module failure recovery.

    Your encouragement, support & advise is always highly appreciated.

  • Stephen

    I understand that getting certification to use a LENR device for transport directly may be a while off. Also in this case for security reasons.

    I suppose there is no particular blocking reason for the batteries need to be immobile though. Perhaps the batteries could placed in mobile vehicles such as busses or drones in a drone hive and swapped in and out as required so they can be used to power a vehicle as well as the local grid and maintain external power to the device? Or would that kind of dynamic use be too complex for the power management SW to handle and better used only on the excess power?

    • Engineer48

      Hi Stephen,

      I believe by the time this plant is in production, direct AC will be at least 20% of the thermal output. Which means a electrical COP = 40. Which means to replace the QuarkX reactor electrical output with batteries will need 40 times the normal battery capacity.

      Not doable.

      • Stephen

        I certainly wouldn’t want to do that. Especially when that power was available. I was more curious about the possibility of instead of having an immobile battery in the plant if there would be benefits of having those batteries in vehicles.

        But on reflection I suppose it would make the power management in the plant a bit too complex so probably a static battery as in your diagram is more realistic.

  • Stephen

    I understand that getting certification to use a LENR device for transport directly may be a while off. Also in this case for security reasons.

    I suppose there is no particular blocking reason for the batteries need to be immobile though. Perhaps the batteries could placed in mobile vehicles such as busses or drones in a drone hive and swapped in and out of the plant as required so they can be used to power a vehicle as well as the local grid and maintain external power to the device? Or would that kind of dynamic use be too complex for the power management SW to handle and better used only on the excess power?

    • Engineer48

      Hi Stephen,

      I believe by the time this plant is in production, direct AC will be at least 20% of the thermal output. Which means a electrical COP = 40. Which means to replace the QuarkX reactor electrical output with batteries will need 40 times the normal battery capacity.

      Not doable.

      However is a good idea to the ship the plant WITHOUT fuel as it is then basically worthless.

      • Stephen

        I certainly wouldn’t want to do that. Especially when that power was available. I was more curious about the possibility of instead of having an immobile battery in the plant if there would be benefits of having those batteries in vehicles.

        But on reflection I suppose it would make the power management in the plant a bit too complex so probably a static battery as in your diagram is more realistic.

  • Karl Venter

    How can I help ENG
    I am in South Africa
    Can help with site development/training/getting funding from large corporate to assist the communities

  • Karl Venter

    How can I help ENG
    I am in South Africa
    Can help with site development/training/getting funding from large corporate to assist the communities

  • This sounds pretty good, Engineer48. I know of an animal rescue organization in my region that is semi-remote and they spend a lot on energy and could use the savings that something like this could provide. One question: it says, in the article, that “In essence this would make it a self-looped setup.” Does this mean that it will run until it breaks down without refueling?

    • cashmemorz

      A multi unit would have one doing the core work as in the diag. and another one acts as external to the central one for powering the central unit. A third for backup in case the central or external need it. Repair on site or replace the one gone wrong. Or some such combination that works best in the requirements of the particular site environment. Don’t want too many backup units unless redundancy in extreme remote areas, ie. mid Sahara, Antarctica, high Himalayas, military submarines, deep mines, deep underwater habitats, in orbit and beyond or over concerned individuals that are always ready for the end of the world. These last can pay extra as insurance for themselves and to speed up financing for others that really need units.

      • cashmemorz

        Some creative finances are also in order to get this off the ground in a hurry. The key word here is hurry. A lot of people are waiting.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Mark,

      Needs to be refueled every 12 months, that is assuming 24/7/365 operation.

      As for breakdowns, design goal is to do failed module replacement. For critical installs, simple to have redundant plants and carry spare modules.

      And yes the design is self looping with the primary battery recharged from the direct QuarkX reactors electrical output, of course processed to do the constant recharge as per the battery manufacturers specifications.

      • Thanks, man. I’m going to tell the people who run the animal rescue organization and see what they think of the idea.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Engineer48,

    Nice concept. I think that you might consider the steam out for such tasks as sterilizing equipment. In a disaster, there is often a need for medical facilities and they need both electrical power and a source for sterilizing instruments. Also, dry foods such as rice, beans, etc, can provided needed sustenance for the displaced population, but a method for cooking them is needed. Pressure cookers and steamers can use the steam source, too.

  • Thomas Kaminski

    Engineer48,

    Nice concept. I think that you might consider the steam out for such tasks as sterilizing equipment. In a disaster, there is often a need for medical facilities and they need both electrical power and a source for sterilizing instruments. Also, dry foods such as rice, beans, etc, can provided needed sustenance for the displaced population, but a method for cooking them is needed. Pressure cookers and steamers can use the steam source, too.

  • Rene

    As nice as this design looks, and as feasible are all the parts but one, that one speculative part is the critical one. Let’s not get over enamored of the concept until the critical part moves from speculative to proven or vetted.
    We all know that having a high density and high capacity energy source can lead to wonderful things (many discussed in this forum, past to present), but until that source becomes available and practical, these ideas are non-starters.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Rene,

      Sure but one needs to start somewhere and I believe this conceptual schematic is a good start.

      • Axil Axil

        Apply to the Clinton and Gates foundations for development money.

    • Ged

      This is the best way to prove and vet–put it into use and see if it works.

      • Rene

        No, the best way to prove this is for MFMP to receive a quark and then have it run through a proper test cycle.

        • Ged

          That won’t be as robust and reliable as running it in a real work application with actual stressors and demand. This is a much better test, not that MFMP running it too wouldn’t be excellent.

          • DrD

            As we know only too well, the worlds skeptics will continue to not believe, no demo will NOT change their minds and personally, I don’t care, only mass use will possibly do that.
            In anycase, I’ve no doubt Eng’s motives are far more honourable, proving the Quark works is not what he’s about.

          • Rene

            This design concept is much less reliable than direct measurement such as MFMP would perform because the real work design makes many assumptions that will require significant engineering work both in power conditioning (since the output quality of the quark is unknown), and in the water conditioning process. The latter is being done by several organization who already have well tested water purification systems throughout the third world. A lot of engineering effort has been expended and either proven or in proof validation. In other words there are already working remote power and water purification systems out there. Redoing that work is wasteful of time and money.

            What this quark based system would provide that is unique is a replacement of PV power generation and eliminating deep cycling of the batteries. Replacing the PV is a negative because PV arrays can last 20+ years before replacement and they generate power for that entire time. The quark based system requires yearly refueling and that means a logistics chain of 1st world produced fuel.
            Replacing deep cycled batteries with e-cat powered float-charged batteries is a positive because that increases their lifetime from 5ish years to 20 years.
            So, in the end the only part that needs to be verified is the e-cat. Heat generated needs to be significantly greater than inputs to drive it. Electrical output has to understood to characterize what kind of conditioning/conversion is needed to make it useful.

          • HS61AF91

            Lots of useful things were never proven, but got overcome by working. Eng 48’s concept and the talk here is like that. Heavier than air flight, steam locomotives, Tesla’s AC electricity, etc., I think all came about by working, vice proving. This appears to be a way to go for such a working product to make proof obsolete. I am delightfully encouraged by the ideas and enthusiasm in comments here. We all have a world to win, and be able to live in.

          • Engineer48

            Hi HS,

            To me, I don’t care how it works inside as long as it is safe. I do need a specification and data sheet that will allow me to design the various interfaces and electrical power input and output plus temperature / pressure ranges and how to access the control system.

            After that the reactor is just another system module (black box) that needs to be integrated with all the other modules to achieve the overall desired end user functionality.

            If Andrea follows form, I expect the QuarkX functional diagram to look something like this, assuming the reactor rods were inside one side of a heat exchanger.
            .

          • Axil Axil

            How about adding a water desalination and/or purification feature.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            There is a 2 stage filter plus steamer and condenser to clean and purify dirty water. Is also steam outlet for cleaning, sterilisation and steam cooking.

            Desalinated water is called liquid electricity for a reason. Probably better to have a dedicated plant for that.

            Plan is to build a backend reactor module that has the battery, input inverter, QuarkX reactor & battery charger.

            Then build various front end modules that provide end user beneficial external services as required on a site by site basis via a simple plug & play bolt on common interface.

          • Rene

            Look at this: Almost all of the items in the concept diagram are known art and in successful practice in the field. The concept diagram lacks ph adjusters, it lacks required volatiles separators because the water we’re talking about cleaning up is contaminated by man made pollutants. There are several remote power clean waters systems throughout the 3rd world that cleans up that kind of water. It is known art.
            Now look up at the diagram. The only part of that diagram (the orange box) that is yet to be proven in practice or in the field is the e-cat.
            What needs to be proven and proven reliable is that orange box and there are quite a number of unknowns about it with respect to control mechanisms, and with respect to the specifics of the power, voltage, waveform, constancy, chirpiness. A far simpler and very important project, one that can be shown to everyone is taking part of the diagram (look up at it again), conditioning the power, charging the battery, and running a 50W load for a day a week, a month.
            Oh yes, and boil eggs regularly or slow cook some nice stews with the heat output too.

          • HS61AF91

            Great, over easy please!

          • Observer

            Lets Review:

            December 26, 2015 at 11:25 AM
            Q: Could you perhaps tell us whether the E-Cat X is producing AC or DC?
            December 26, 2015 at 3:14 PM
            A: DC, that obviously can be inverted into AC with the inverters.
            December 27, 2015 at 2:08 AM
            Q: Can the power of the E-Cat X be throttled up and down? If so, what kind of delayed response does it have?
            December 27, 2015 at 7:54 AM
            A: Yes, it cam be throttled up and down and the response is fast.
            December 30, 2015 at 11:58 AM
            Q: Can you repeatedly turn the E-Cat X off and on fast enough to produce an AC voltage without a power inverter?
            December 30, 2015 at 1:43 PM
            A: Interesting suggestion.

            From Engineer48:
            Andrea’s replies to me make it very clear the QuarkX reactor’s primary electrical output is AC at either 50Hz or 60Hz and it is stable.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer,

            My statement is correct and is from Andrea, from his blog, after the QuarkX results reveal and verified by direct email to him.

            I sent Andrea my plant schematic and asked him if it was correct. He replied “Very Good”.

          • Observer

            I do not doubt your statement. The E-Cat X evolved.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer,

            Here is the iink:
            http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=132#comment-1201269

            And screenshot.

            There is way too much misinformation in circulation. I actively try to do what ever I can to reduce the noise level and boost the signal level.

          • Observer

            Read carefully the time line in my post and it will answer the question Rossi did not.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer, who wrote:
            “Q: Can you repeatedly turn the E-Cat X off and on fast enough to produce an AC voltage without a power inverter?
            December 30, 2015 at 1:43 PM
            A: Interesting suggestion.”

            Yes, indeed a very interesting observation.;)

            Thamks for pointing that out. Will bring it up in my next email to Andrea!
            .

          • DrD

            Hi Eng, Observer,
            Yes!!
            Congratulations Observer, that could indeed explain a lot!
            I’ve been uneasy about the apparent contradictions. He said many times “it’s DC” until recently when it started becoming “AC or DC” and then AC to Eng.Well observed!
            Edit: I can appreciate his reluctance to make public too much detail.

          • Engineer48

            Deleted. Wrong spot

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Asking if your schematic is “cool” or basically correct does not mean Rossi verified the
            output as AC. In fact Rossi above states:

            Are you saying Rossi directly stated output is AC? That’s not what I read so far.

            A: DC, that obviously can be inverted into AC with the inverters.

            So in above Rossi FLAT OUT STATES you are most free to invert output to AC. However, above Rossi CLEARLY states the output is DC.

            The result of the above?

            You are most free to draw “AC” on your diagram. And above Rossi says you are MOST free to have AC, but YOU WILL HAVE TO USE an inverter. So according to Rossi in several places and even in above he CLEARY FLAT OUT states the output is DC.

            Rossi also recent stated that the heat energy is converted to electric by conventional means. And all conventional means I am aware of for non-moving systems produce DC.

            So you have to re-quote where Rossi stated the output is AC. In above Rossi CLEARLY states you are most free to invert the output to AC, but that in ZERO ways and in ZERO context suggests IN ANY CONTEXT that the output is DC.

            With the given info Rossi clearly confirms output is DC, but you want to draw AC on some diagram, then fine because you be using an inverter to convert the stated DC output to AC. And Rossi stated one is most free to convert output to AC.

            I most happy to be corrected on the above DC issue. Rossi been quite consistent in his contexts. No context hints, implies that output is AC, and this is EVEN in contexts of omission by Rossi where he is not clear. Rossi only stated if you need AC, then fine and no problem – you can have it.

            If your position is based on a direct statement by Rossi that output is AC, then I 100% graciously stand corrected. However if you are “assuming” because Rossi says your diagram is great, then that’s not verification of AC output. If you have direct statements that output is AC, then why is Rossi stating DC output, and you have to use a inverter to get AC then?
            As noted, this issue changes little in your diagram since in above Rossi flat out states if you need AC output, then just use an inverter.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Your data is old.

            I verified the attached, with Andrea via private email.

            My schematic is correct.
            .

          • Albert D. Kallal

            The discussion on that blog is not clear on this issue.

            The question of “Direct AC output” was NOT in the context that Rossi stated output is AC. It more looks like Rossi “assumed” in this case since output is DC, then the question was about the inverted output – it could not be any other way if DC was the output.

            If Rossi stated output is AC before inverters, then I am MOST happy to accept that. And if Rossi flat out stated to you that output is AC, then that is really interesting news – this is thus strange!
            However, Rossi still stated the output conversion rate is only 10%.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            That is why I confirmed everything with Andrea via email.

            He has publicly stated 20% is the production goal.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Thank you. My sorry for “pressing” on this issue. It not some “worry” about me vs you being right or wrong. I had read + assumed DC, and I am MOST happy to be corrected on this issue.
            My apologies for taking your time on this, and I most graciously appreciate you taking time to correct me on this issue.
            Again, thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts here – I think you should plan to build those remote power units. A great business opportunity!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • This whole project sounds great to me E48. I wish you all the luck in the world. Perhaps as things develop I and others here will find a way to assist you in this endeavour.

          • Engineer48

            Hi EEStor,

            Thanks.

            The office door is always open for a chat:
            engineer48 dot 99 at gmail dot com

          • Engineer48

            Here is my take on how the QuarkX reactor is constructed, based on Andrea’s patent as he has said it is.

            In this drawing from the patent please note:

            50: outer high temperature metal tube
            54: fuel
            52: inner high temperature metal tube
            46: electrical insulation
            40: heater

            What amazes me is as far as I know, no replicator has tried to duplicate this sandwich which has metal on all sides of the fuel.

          • Engineer48

            QuarkX is all about layer stacking

            HotCat layers, as attached:

            Outer metral tube
            Insulator
            Heating resistors
            Insulator
            Inner metal tube
            Fuel
            Inner metal tube
            Insulator
            Heating resistors
            Insulator
            Outer metal sheet

            Patent layers, as atrached

            Outer metal sheet 1mm
            Fuel
            Inner metal sheet 1mm
            Insulator
            Heating resistors
            Insulator
            Inner metal sheet 1mm
            Fuel
            Outer metal sheet 1m

            Total thickness 8mm.

            QuarkX layers, my guess

            Outer metal tube
            Fuel
            Inner metal tube
            Insulator
            Heating resistors
            Insulator
            Inner metal tube
            Fuel
            Outer metal tube

            See the evolution?

            Important to note that in all versions there is metal on all sides of the fuel.

            In the patent & the guessed QuarkX design, the heat from the resistors is at the centre of the reactor.

            Any EM fields generated by the fuel will induce heating eddy currents into the inner and outer metal surfaces, furthering fuel heating & providing more reactor energy fold back to add to the heating from the resistors and boost reactor COP by reducing need for heating from the resistors abd thus lower input current.

            Additionally as the surface area of the inner and outer tubes in the HotCat & QuarkX reactors are different, there may be differential electric potential generated and thus offer the ability to generate an external current flow between the coaxial tubes.

            What I see in the detailed construction images of the HotCat and the patent plus Andrea’s explanations of the QuarkX reactor presents a clear evolutionary development pathway that stacks up as against HotCat claims, patent claims & QuarkX claims.

            Congratulations Andrea, clever boy. Well done.

            I say again, why has No One tried to duplicate this layer stack before?

            Here are all the details of the HotCat construction:
            http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

            For me, it is now very clear how the QuarkX reactor is constructed, why the COP is so high & how it generates electricity.

            I also now appreciate why every HotCat replication I know of has found it very difficult to get a good COP, which is all in the layers and how they are stacked.

          • Engineer48

            Following on from the above post, here is how I believe the QuarkX reactor is constructed.

            Apologises for the low quality graphics as I’m away from my pc & only have a simple drawing app on my Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet.

            I’m sure you will get the idea, which matches the patent and what Andrea is saying.

            What I see is a very large fuel volume and a much smaller heater volume, which is the originat HotCat with those elements swapped to match the patent layering.

            Also shown is how the direct electrical connections to the layers may be done. Andrea has said the electricity is from the layers in the patent.

          • Rene

            (I brought this over from another thread, where people were trying to understand the difference between the quark and previous designs. Axil was pointing out the mouse has a low COP)
            * * * He had different versions of the mouse COP ranging from 1.05 to 1.2ish. Have you noticed not much mention is made of the cat & mouse design?
            I think the quark is fundamentally different than the previous designs (except perhaps the hot cat). Previous, high COP was achieved by driving the reaction into a long SSM and then an arduous feedback loop to keep it linear which proved difficult because of lag caused by the thermal mass. The mouse was used to drive the e-cat, and here we’ve never been certain if the drive was heat or something more exotic. In any case, that approach has been a control challenge.
            The quark is not running SSM (says Rossi) yet achieves high COP. How? Maybe that teensy thermal mass assists, a millisecond heat spike that propagates quickly outward causing a brief self-quenched super critical reaction. Do that 50/60 times a second and you have controllable LENR device. He’s moved on to materials engineering to tune the reaction.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Rene,

            I believe the QuarkX is the Rossi Black HotCat but with the layer scheme of the patented wafer.

            Here the trigger heat is central to the core and none is wasted as all the resistive heat transfers into the fuel. The outer metal layer then converts all the EM and particle energy that hits it into long wave IR and radiates some outward and some is folded back and radiated back into the fuel. This QuarkX design is very thermally efficient. Heaps more that the IH Dog Bone or any of the attempted replications.

            The IH DogBone reactor is very wasteful of the resistive generated heat, with only a small fraction going inward and most being wasted & radiated outward. There is no thermal fold back in the Dog Bone reactor to use reaction generated heat to reduce the need for resistive heat / electrical power.

            The original Black HotCat got it right to use dual coaxial tubes to contain the heat and the later QuarkX reactor went the next step forward & swapped the heater from outer to inner and the fuel from inner to outer

            This massively increased the fuel volume compared to the heater volume. Ie look at the picture of the end of the Black HotCat & imagine the brownish resistor array was inside the central fuel tube & the fuel occupied the volume where the resistors were. That would create a layering schene as in the patent & increase thermal efficiency.

          • Rene

            E48 wrote “…There is no thermal fold back in the Dog Bone reactor to use reaction …”

            @bobgreenyer talks about terrawave (IR) foldback as a possible method to excite the reaction. And yes, the MFMP setups seem highly dissipative, although I’d like to see Bob’s comments about that.

            With the older larger mass e-cats reaction quench had to be done with external power. The other intriguing part of foldback is that it could also play part in self-quenching the reaction. Maybe the much smaller mass and specific structure permits the conditions to let the reaction build quickly then get quench intrinsically, something like:

            1. Excitation thermal pulse (temp spike travels outward)
            2. LENR -> IR to UV + β
            3. IR out, some IR reflected inward
            4. IR self excitation reaction increases, more β
            4. Reflected IR increases to quench point, reaction ends.
            5. Electrical DC Gaussian waveform.
            I tend to believe a DC bias will exist because the insulator (plus lower temp outside) creates an IR asymmetry.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Rene,

            AC riding on DC at 50% of AC peak to peak volts seems to make sense.

            As for thermal fold back, EVERY Rossi internal water heating reactor has massive insulation. Never did he run a non heavily insulated reactor that heated water internally. So thermal fold back has been there from day one. Yet no replicator noticed? Weird.

            When I look at the layered Black HotCat and the layered patent wafer reactor as against the IH Dog Bone reactor, I ask myself WTF went wrong? It looks a bit like the Black HotCat with the outer steel tubing layer missing, so there is no outer layer thermal foldback. Very strange WTF stuff.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            It seems to be true. Only offer to remove the inner metal tube. Heating element – tungsten plus thorium oxide.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Look at the picture you posted earlier and see where the wires come out. I think the heaters are between the two cylinders.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            Yes in the Black HotCat the resistive heaters are between the outer and inner cylinders, with the fuel inside the inner cylinder.

            In the patent that is reversed with the heater inside the inner cylinder and the fuel between the outer and inner cylinders. Much more fuel volume that way.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            Ooops — I should have read your description more carefully. It is discussed there.

          • Engineer48

            As it will be some time until delivery of the QuarkX reactors needed to build the 1st prototype plant, I have set out to investigate the possibility to 1st replicate the Black HotCat and then to alter the layering scheme to match the patent and see what effect that generates.

            I do note the Black HotCat had an open central tube, which implies to me a fuel tube was slid inside the central tube, which should make for easy fuel replacement.

            Yes I know some may see this a nuts as no one has done a “BlackCat” replication but the way I think, this configuration is the way to do it to get thermal foldback and higher COP than just radiating the thermal heat into space as in the more normal Dog Bone style HotCat reactor as attached.

            Will provide updates as I work this project.

          • Engineer48

            Here is my take on how the QuarkX reactor is constructed, based on Andrea’s patent as he has said it is.

            What amazes me is as far as I know, no replicator has tried to duplicate this sandwich which has metal on all sides of the fuel and the supplied heat applied at the central point in the stack with heat radiating outward into the fuel versus the Dog Bone method with the resistive heat outside the fuel and radiating inward to the fuel.

          • Alan Smith

            Hi Engineer. Just a reminder that http://www.lookingforheat.com we probably have almost everything you need in the way of ceramics, Kanthal and chemicals, but wether you end up a customer or not, we can offer advice if you just want to bounce an idea off our skulls. Best of luck with your build!

          • Engineer48

            Hi Alan,

            I’m already looking to see it I can design in what you guys can supply.

            I’m an old KISS engineer, that doesn’t like to reinvent the wheel, unless there is no other way forward.

          • Alan Smith

            Me too. The less bits there are, the less there is to go wrong.

          • Ged

            Thank you again for your incredible materials resource.

  • Rene

    As nice as this design looks, and as feasible are all the parts but one, that one speculative part is the critical one. Let’s not get over enamored of the concept until the critical part moves from speculative to proven or vetted.
    We all know that having a high density and high capacity energy source can lead to wonderful things (many discussed in this forum, past to present), but until that source becomes available and practical, these ideas are non-starters.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Rene,

      Sure but one needs to start somewhere and I believe this conceptual schematic is a good start.

      • toast

        Maybe you could add a steam turbine to get some more AC power out.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Toast,

          I’ll be happy with 20% of the thermal output energy as AC energy.

          With 20% I will only need a 50kWt reactor to generate 10kWe for a whole year 24/7.

      • Axil Axil

        Apply to the Clinton and Gates foundations for development money.

    • Ged

      This is the best way to prove and vet–put it into use and see if it works.

      • Rene

        No, the best way to prove this is for MFMP to receive a quark and then have it run through a proper test cycle.

        • Ged

          That won’t be as robust and reliable as running it in a real work application with actual stressors and demand. This is a much better test, not that MFMP running it too wouldn’t be excellent.

          • DrD

            As we know only too well, the worlds skeptics will continue to not believe, no demo will NOT change their minds and personally, I don’t care, only mass use will possibly do that.
            In anycase, I’ve no doubt Eng’s motives are far more honourable, proving the Quark works is not what he’s about.

          • Rene

            This design concept is much less reliable than direct measurement such as MFMP would perform because the real work design makes many assumptions that will require significant engineering work both in power conditioning (since the output quality of the quark is unknown), and in the water conditioning process. The latter is being done by several organization who already have well tested water purification systems throughout the third world. A lot of engineering effort has been expended and either proven or in proof validation. In other words there are already working remote power and water purification systems out there. Redoing that work is wasteful of time and money.

            What this quark based system would provide that is unique is a replacement of PV power generation and eliminating deep cycling of the batteries. Replacing the PV is a negative because PV arrays can last 20+ years before replacement and they generate power for that entire time. The quark based system requires yearly refueling and that means a logistics chain of 1st world produced fuel.
            Replacing deep cycled batteries with e-cat powered float-charged batteries is a positive because that increases their lifetime from 5ish years to 20 years.
            So, in the end the only part that needs to be verified is the e-cat. Heat generated needs to be significantly greater than inputs to drive it. Electrical output has to understood to characterize what kind of conditioning/conversion is needed to make it useful.

          • HS61AF91

            Lots of useful things were never proven, but got overcome by working. Eng 48’s concept and the talk here is like that. Heavier than air flight, steam locomotives, Tesla’s AC electricity, etc., I think all came about by working, vice proving. This appears to be a way to go for such a working product to make proof obsolete. I am delightfully encouraged by the ideas and enthusiasm in comments here. We all have a world to win, and be able to live in.

          • Engineer48

            Hi HS,

            To me, I don’t care how it works inside as long as it is safe. I do need a specification and data sheet that will allow me to design the various interfaces and electrical power input and output plus temperature / pressure ranges and how to access the control system.

            After that the reactor is just another system module (black box) that needs to be integrated with all the other modules to achieve the overall desired end user functionality.

            If Andrea follows form, I expect the QuarkX functional diagram to look something like this, assuming the reactor rods were inside one side of a heat exchanger.
            .

          • Axil Axil

            How about adding a water desalination and/or purification feature.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Axil,

            There is a 2 stage filter plus steamer and condenser to clean and purify dirty water. Is also steam outlet for cleaning, sterilisation and steam cooking.

            Desalinated water is called liquid electricity for a reason. Probably better to have a dedicated plant for that.

            Plan is to build a backend reactor module that has the battery, input inverter, QuarkX reactor & battery charger.

            Then build various front end modules that provide end user beneficial external services as required on a site by site basis via a simple plug & play bolt on common interface.

          • purplepartyguy

            Engineer48
            Im glad to see someone finally talking about product integration with other systems. Ive thought about village sized systems that use renewable energy that would provide heating, cooling, lighting, communications, hygenie, food production etc. The idea of using module componenents with a core energy system is the way to go IMHO. I work in the water and wastewater industry and have lots of ideas on different kinds of modules for water production and treatment. Lets chat some more about this concept.
            Jon

          • clovis ray

            I have always thought a slide in module would be useful that way we just build the unit and Dr Rossi could supply a fail safe slide in core.
            This way the unit could be delivered safely and after an operator was instructed in use the core could be plugged in.

          • Rene

            Look at this: Almost all of the items in the concept diagram are known art and in successful practice in the field. The concept diagram lacks ph adjusters, it lacks required volatiles separators because the water we’re talking about cleaning up is contaminated by man made pollutants. There are several remote power clean waters systems throughout the 3rd world that cleans up that kind of water. It is known art.
            Now look up at the diagram. The only part of that diagram (the orange box) that is yet to be proven in practice or in the field is the e-cat.
            What needs to be proven and proven reliable is that orange box and there are quite a number of unknowns about it with respect to control mechanisms, and with respect to the specifics of the power, voltage, waveform, constancy, chirpiness. A far simpler and very important project, one that can be shown to everyone is taking part of the diagram (look up at it again), conditioning the power, charging the battery, and running a 50W load for a day a week, a month.
            Oh yes, and boil eggs regularly or slow cook some nice stews with the heat output too.

          • HS61AF91

            Great, over easy please!

  • Steve Savage

    I really like this idea … https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-biggest-solar-powered-computer-in-the-world#/

    I am sure that this type of technology could be adapted for e-cat(type?) technology.

    Why reinvent the wheel ?

    • Warthog

      Ridiculously over designed and overly expensive by a team with too many architecture students instead of real experienced engineers. You can build precisely the same capabilities into standard shipping containers a LOT cheaper, and transport them a LOT easier than this artistically beautiful but terribly engineered effort.

      As you said….”why reinvent the wheel”….

  • Steve Savage

    I really like this idea … https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-biggest-solar-powered-computer-in-the-world#/

    I am sure that this type of technology could be adapted for e-cat(type?) technology.

    Why reinvent the wheel ?

    • GiveADogABone

      Because steam at 0bar gauge and 105C will not produce electricity, I cannot share your optimism.

      • Warthog

        Sure it can….just not with water as a working fluid. See OTEC and waste-heat recovery liquid-vapor-electricity non-aqueous devices for examples.

        • GiveADogABone

          I made the assumption that were talking about boiling water in an E-cat. What other working fluid that is restricted to 0bar gauge pressure and 130C temperature as top limiting conditions did you have in mind? The resulting thermal efficiency would be of interest as well.

          • Warthog

            The technology of low-temperature is well developed and commercially available. That is why I suggested looking at OTEC (Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion) for examples of working fluids. Geothermal power also provides examples. Generically, anything that has been used as a refrigerant is a candidate. Ammonia, isobutane, and pentafluororpropane are some I found quickly. With basically unlimited energy, thermal efficiency is much less of a factor, as DrD points out above.

        • DrD

          and with fuel costs as AR predicted, conversion efficiency isn’t that crucial. Even a Rankine engines better than throwing the heat away.
          His latest (pre-Quark) estimates were:

          Andrea Rossi
          January 3rd, 2016 at 8:27 AM
          Richard Wade:
          Here are “ballpark” figures, to be worked upon:
          Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
          Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days

    • Warthog

      Ridiculously over designed and overly expensive by a team with too many architecture students instead of real experienced engineers. You can build precisely the same capabilities into standard shipping containers a LOT cheaper, and transport them a LOT easier than this artistically beautiful but terribly engineered effort.

      As you said….”why reinvent the wheel”….

  • GiveADogABone

    There is only one way I can see to sensibly build this QuarkX plant for ‘Remote Area / Disaster Relief AC/DC power [and] heated air; that is as a vertical stack of demountable modules with air cooling.

    The driving reason for this is that the production of say 10kW of electricity provides a design requirement that 40-90kW(10% to 20% electricity) of heat can be continuously dumped to the environment. The use of water cooling for the QuarkX core only postpones the inevitability of yet another heat exchange process, with a whole stack of issues that you do not need. The simplest, lightest, most reliable and most transportable dump system for cooling air is a vertical flue stack, placed directly over the core.

    The basic design is therefore a base unit with air inlets and electrical equipment (cooled by air flow), a core module above and a flue module. If it is just electricity and hot air that you want in the first instance, then you do not need more. Additional modules, to be inserted into the stack, could be condensers, fan units and heat exchangers.

  • Christina

    Perhaps the answer to not having the system sabotaged in Africa is to install in areas: say a thousand square miles will get their disaster-relief E-Cat QuarkX. Next month another thousand square miles will get theirs. Etcetera. I’m ignorant of how this works, but believe that if lots of villages acquire theirs at the same time, then perhaps people won’t steal its parts, especially if they see the next section of villages being prepped to receive the QuarkX unit. I know it’s a nightmare of organization, but perhaps someone can coordinate it.

    I hope it helps.

    Thanks for listening.

  • Christina

    Perhaps the answer to not having the system sabotaged in Africa is to install in areas: say a thousand square miles will get their disaster-relief E-Cat QuarkX. Next month another thousand square miles will get theirs. Etcetera. I’m ignorant of how this works, but believe that if lots of villages acquire theirs at the same time, then perhaps people won’t steal its parts, especially if they see the next section of villages being prepped to receive the QuarkX unit. I know it’s a nightmare of organization, but perhaps someone can coordinate it.

    I hope it helps.

    Thanks for listening.

  • Engineer48

    Thanks for the inputs guys.

    Have done a few changes. We how have Hot water and Steam outlets.

    • Frank Acland

      I have added this to the main post above.

    • artefact

      Refrigeration/Cool water could be nice. To cool food, medicine, water…

  • Engineer48

    Thanks for the inputs guys.

    Have done a few changes. We how have Hot water and Steam outlets.

    • Frank Acland

      I have added this to the main post above.

    • artefact

      Refrigeration/Cool water could be nice. To cool food, medicine, water…

  • Axil Axil

    In the types of wars that the U.S. is now undertaking, the support of power, water, and heat production for the warfighter will save large sums of money. It cost 2.4 million a year to support 1 warfighter in Afghanistan. The fuel to provide this support is set by corrupt foreign governments(Pakistan) and companies who must truck the fuel over mountains or fly the fuel into country at great cost. The U,S. military would pay dearly for such a expeditionary fuel replacement capability.

    • HS61AF91

      You’re right there, benefiting warfighters. I was more thinking that the device would lessen the lust for war.

      • Axil Axil

        Consider…

        The people who want to regress back to the 7th century would naturally strongly resist the distribution of LENR technology to the average person, because LENR is a civilizing influence bringing 21 century civilization to all people where power is provided to all the world’s people.

        Together with killing doctors and aid workers, LENR may be a new reason for the retrogrades to go to war with all those trying to civilize the world.

        • HS61AF91

          Maybe not, I don’t think those retrogrades have control any longer.

        • HS61AF91

          Retrogrades will lose, this time. It is discouraging to contemplate how repressive means holds back mankind’s advances. How about we just won’t let them, any more.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        Apparently you are deeply mistaken. If LENR real reaction significantly increases the risk of uncontrolled nuclear conflict.

        • HS61AF91

          That I am deeply mistaken is a proviso that I do not embrace! Because the saving grace of a LENR world society can only end in uncontrolled nuclear conflict denies the entire good light side of humanity. It expects the dark side to triumph in world annihilation. ‘No way, Jose;’ that is, IMHO, the good will triumph, and the efforts of all here on this forum will see the fruit of their positive thoughts.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            While waiting from LENR the stone philosopher’s opportunities mixture and Holy Grail is not necessary to turn a blind eye to the nuclear nature of this phenomenon

          • HS61AF91

            l think you’ll find ‘nuclear phenomenon’ is about to be divided into new distinct subgroups, on the path to understanding and safely using LENR. Relax, don’t worry so apprehensively.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Thank you. I try to relax.

            — реклама ———————————————————– Поторопись зарегистрировать самый короткий почтовый адрес @i.ua http://mail.i.ua/reg – и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

          • HS61AF91

            cpasibo, no u menya dostatocho
            khraneniya pisem! tem ne mennene, khoroshij smisil’, khroroshyj den’

  • Axil Axil

    In the types of wars that the U.S. is now undertaking, the support of power, water, and heat production for the warfighter will save large sums of money. It cost 2.4 million a year to support 1 warfighter in Afghanistan. The fuel to provide this support is set by corrupt foreign governments(Pakistan) and companies who must truck the fuel over mountains or fly the fuel into country at great cost. The U,S. military would pay dearly for such a mobile expeditionary fuel replacement capability.

    • HS61AF91

      You’re right there, benefiting warfighters. I was more thinking that the device would lessen the lust for war.

      • Axil Axil

        Consider…

        The people who want to regress back to the 7th century would naturally strongly resist the distribution of LENR technology to the average person, because LENR is a civilizing influence bringing 21 century civilization to all people where power is provided to all the world’s people.

        Together with killing doctors and aid workers, LENR may be a new reason for the retrogrades to go to war with all those trying to civilize the world.

        • HS61AF91

          Maybe not, I don’t think those retrogrades have control any longer.

        • HS61AF91

          Retrogrades will lose, this time. It is discouraging to contemplate how repressive means holds back mankind’s advances. How about we just won’t let them, any more.

      • Fedir Mykhaylov

        Apparently you are deeply mistaken. If LENR real reaction significantly increases the risk of uncontrolled nuclear conflict.

        • HS61AF91

          That I am deeply mistaken is a proviso that I do not embrace! Because the saving grace of a LENR world society can only end in uncontrolled nuclear conflict denies the entire good light side of humanity. It expects the dark side to triumph in world annihilation. ‘No way, Jose;’ that is, IMHO, the good will triumph, and the efforts of all here on this forum will see the fruit of their positive thoughts.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            While waiting from LENR the stone philosopher’s opportunities mixture and Holy Grail is not necessary to turn a blind eye to the nuclear nature of this phenomenon

          • HS61AF91

            l think you’ll find ‘nuclear phenomenon’ is about to be divided into new distinct subgroups, on the path to understanding and safely using LENR. Relax, don’t worry so apprehensively.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            Thank you. I try to relax.

            — реклама ———————————————————– Поторопись зарегистрировать самый короткий почтовый адрес @i.ua http://mail.i.ua/reg – и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

          • HS61AF91

            cpasibo, no u menya dostatocho
            khraneniya pisem! tem ne mennene, khoroshij smisil’, khroroshyj den’

  • Engineer48

    Hi Toast,

    I’ll be happy with 20% of the thermal output energy as AC energy.

    With 20% I will only need a 50kWt reactor to generate 10kWe for a whole year 24/7.

  • Engineer48

    Thinking about building the QuarkX plants into a standard 8ft shipping container.

    Tough, lockable and hard to steal. Ok sure there are delivery issues but I’m thinking those are solvable as the end goal is to stop people stealing or tampering with a village’s installed power system.

    Easy to fit a damn good alarm system that will wake up the entire village if someone tries to break in or move it.

    Can then fit the heat exchanger’s waste heat disposal system onto the roof.
    .

    • Axil Axil

      It could be made easy to install into a Buffalo for support of the warfighter who require mobile expeditionary fuel replacement support capability.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Buffalo_mine-protected_vehicle.jpg

      • Engineer48

        Hi Mark,

        Needs to be refueled every 12 months, that is assuming 24/7/365 operation.

        As for breakdowns, design goal is to do failed module replacement. For critical installs, simple to have redundant plants and carry spare modules.

        And yes the design is self looping with the primary battery recharged from the direct QuarkX reactors electrical output, of course processed to do the constant recharge as per the battery manufacturers specifications.

    • Warthog

      “Ok sure there are delivery issues but I’m thinking those are solvable as
      the end goal is to stop people stealing or tampering with a village’s
      installed power system.

      Delivery issues?? When the military can drop them out of C-130’s and soft land them with parachutes??? Or airlift by chopper???

      • Engineer48

        Hi Warthog,

        I’ll let another company build a military version.

        As for delivery, would suggest a light single axil trailer that can tilt back to allow the 8ft container to slide off & rest on a slightly raised but compacted site. Once the internal condenser is filled with boiled and double filtered water, the container will be very heavy & impossible to be manually moved

        Trailer would be reused for the next plant delivery. OK this assumes ground access via a 4 wheel drive & trailer. The container will be dust & water tight.

        • Warthog

          That’s great….for where there are actually roads. See “Amazon basin” for one of many places where that “just ain’t so”. The military airdrops standard shipping containers..the impact protection is all external. Chopper drop is even simpler. And if you’re planning on deployment in the Third World, you had better be pretty ruggedized anyway.

          I have long been thinking along these lines for a way to drastically and quickly raise the standard of living of poorest humanity. This concept does NOT need e-cats….solar is plenty good enough. Pre-fabbed cell racks, batteries, enough wire and LED bulbs to give basic lighting to a specific number of residences. Once the solar cells, wire, etc are deployed, the storage space becomes a small classroom with computer screen and radio internet. Reverse osmosis water purification. System is all-DC (24VDC) to maximize use of readily available industrial hardware. Much more possible, but space here and my time is limited.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Warthog,

            Been there. Done that.

            Solar is not 24/77365, which means you need lots of batteries. Then long cloudy weeks and you need diesel generators.

            The system I designed needs a battery of 0.5% of thermal output power and can basically have it’s output energy amplified millions of times.

            With that everything changes.

          • Warthog

            No, no, no and no. What these people need more than anything else is ACCESS TO KNOWLEDGE. You can give them that today, no e-cat required. At their level, they don’t NEED 24/7 power….they already “live by the sun”. If they can extend that a few hours into the “dark time”they will be ecstatic.

            Think simple….how much good would a saturation air drop of solar powered LED garden lights do?? The natives stick’em outside in the dirt during the day, and bring’em inside after dark.

            With internet access and “Caterpillar English” (taught by the system), they can bootstrap the rest, meshing what they have locally with what they can access from “outside”.

            You’re trying to bring them from third world to first world in one step, which sociologically just won’t work.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Warthog,

            Couple of points:

            The planet is a big place.
            Many issues need to be fixed.
            One solution will not fix all issues.
            I’m not forcing my plants onto anybody.
            In some ways 24/7/365 reliable power, space & cooking heat plus sterilisation steam & clean water availibility is what defines the 1st world.

            As I see it now, hospitals & schools will benefit the most from 24/7/365 services access. Those sites normally have some vehicle access capability via land or water.

            Village plants will follow and if there is no access, the village elders will need to make that happen.

            Just maybe an interested cellular network provider may be interested in installing a mobile phone antenna on the container roof and building a remote area network?
            .
            .

          • Warthog

            Agree. But I’m working the problem from the other end..remote villages with very limited access to the outside world. Chopper drop in one standard shipping container, and almost immediately bring them a huge step up in standard of living, but do so by leveraging as much off-the-shelf and cheap mass-produced tech as possible.

            The “do-gooders” of the world seem to me to be very limited in knowledge and creativity.

            Why doesn’t the UN negotiate a deal with the US so that instead of dismantling or mothballing old nuclear aircraft carriers, convert them to “mass disaster relief centers”. In several cases, the US Navy has already done things along these lines….park the carrier in the harbor, run power lines to shore, have the decks loaded with evac choppers, and the lower decks as hospital space. Contract out the actual operation of the carrier (especially the reactors) to retired Navy types. The UN provides the rest of the personnel.

  • Engineer48

    Thinking about building the QuarkX plants into a standard 8ft shipping container.

    Tough, lockable and hard to steal. Ok sure there are delivery issues but I’m thinking those are solvable as the end goal is to stop people stealing or tampering with a village’s installed power system.

    Easy to fit a damn good alarm system that will wake up the entire village if someone tries to break in or move it.

    Can then fit the heat exchanger’s waste heat disposal system onto the roof as part of the local installation, commissioning and maintenance training process.

    Next stage would be to fit a small cellular phone tower onto the roof and provide village wide cellular and WiFi access. The network service provider could be encouraged to pay for the plant.
    .

    • Axil Axil

      It could be made easy to install into a Buffalo for support of the warfighter who require mobile expeditionary fuel replacement support capability.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Buffalo_mine-protected_vehicle.jpg

    • Warthog

      “Ok sure there are delivery issues but I’m thinking those are solvable as
      the end goal is to stop people stealing or tampering with a village’s
      installed power system.

      Delivery issues?? When the military can drop them out of C-130’s and soft land them with parachutes??? Or airlift by chopper???

      • Engineer48

        Hi Warthog,

        I’ll let another company build a military version.

        As for delivery, would suggest a light single axil trailer that can tilt back to allow the 8ft container to slide off & rest on a slightly raised but compacted site. Once the internal condenser is filled with boiled and double filtered water, the container will be very heavy & impossible to be manually moved

        Trailer would be reused for the next plant delivery. OK this assumes ground access via a 4 wheel drive & trailer. The container will be dust & water tight.

        • Warthog

          That’s great….for where there are actually roads. See “Amazon basin” for one of many places where that “just ain’t so”. The military airdrops standard shipping containers..the impact protection is all external. Chopper drop is even simpler. And if you’re planning on deployment in the Third World, you had better be pretty ruggedized anyway.

          I have long been thinking along these lines for a way to drastically and quickly raise the standard of living of poorest humanity. This concept does NOT need e-cats….solar is plenty good enough. The key is the standard shipping container.

          Pre-fabbed cell racks, batteries, enough wire and LED bulbs to give basic lighting to a specific number of residences. Once the solar cells, wire, etc are deployed, the storage space becomes a small classroom with computer screen and radio internet. Reverse osmosis water purification. System is all-DC (24VDC) to maximize use of readily available industrial hardware. Much more possible, but space here and my time is limited.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Warthog,

            Been there. Done that.

            Solar is not 24/77365, which means you need lots of batteries. Then long cloudy weeks and you need diesel generators.

            The system I designed needs a battery of 0.5% of thermal output power and can basically have it’s output energy amplified millions of times.

            With that everything changes.

          • Warthog

            No, no, no and no. What these people need more than anything else is ACCESS TO KNOWLEDGE. You can give them that today, no e-cat required. At their level, they don’t NEED 24/7 power….they already “live by the sun”. If they can extend that a few hours into the “dark time”they will be ecstatic.

            Think simple….how much good would a saturation air drop of solar powered LED garden lights do?? The natives stick’em outside in the dirt during the day, and bring’em inside after dark.

            With internet access and “Caterpillar English” (taught by the system), they can bootstrap the rest, meshing what they have locally with what they can access from “outside”.

            You’re trying to bring them from third world to first world in one step, which sociologically just won’t work.

            (Whoops…unintentionally upvoted myself. Switching from mouse to trackball to avoid carpal tunnel, and I ain’t all that good with the new pointing device)

          • Engineer48

            Hi Warthog,

            Couple of points:

            The planet is a big place.
            Many issues need to be fixed.
            One solution will not fix all issues.
            I’m not forcing my plants onto anybody.
            In some ways 24/7/365 reliable power, space & cooking heat plus sterilisation steam & clean water availibility is what defines the 1st world.

            As I see it now, hospitals & schools will benefit the most from 24/7/365 services access. Those sites normally have some vehicle access capability via land or water.

            Village plants will follow and if there is no access, the village elders will need to make that happen.

            Just maybe an interested cellular network provider may be interested in installing a mobile phone antenna on the container roof and building a remote area network?
            .
            .

          • Warthog

            Agree. But I’m working the problem from the other end..remote villages with very limited access to the outside world. Chopper drop in one standard shipping container, and almost immediately bring them a huge step up in standard of living, but do so by leveraging as much off-the-shelf and cheap mass-produced tech as possible.

            The “do-gooders” of the world seem to me to be very limited in knowledge and creativity.

            Why doesn’t the UN negotiate a deal with the US so that instead of dismantling or mothballing old nuclear aircraft carriers, convert them to “mass disaster relief centers”. In several cases, the US Navy has already done things along these lines….park the carrier in the harbor, run power lines to shore, have the decks loaded with evac choppers, and the lower decks as hospital space. Contract out the actual operation of the carrier (especially the reactors) to retired Navy types. The UN provides the rest of the personnel.

  • Engineer48

    Lest we forget Andrea’s dream. now shared by myself:
    https://m.facebook.com/groups/480661851949724?view=permalink&id=1286942991321602

    • G

      Yeah right. If that is his dream i, for one, am waiting for someone with a better dream, than centrally delivered electricity and working for god. (His words on a different occasion). Someone seriously determined to disrupt “the system”, cause he doesnt seem to go that way. Religious people can’t dream in terms of freedom. Period. Plus i believe he is way too connected to tptb, no matter what he or anyone else says. He is working for them. So, f him. Today i just lost the last crumbles of interest in the ecat and rossi’s cold fusion. Good luck u all

      • Manuel Cruz

        You got it backwards. It’s actually the religious people the ones that start revolutions to achieve freedom, which is why tyrannies always attempt to outlaw religion and strip them of all social power.
        It’s also the religious people the ones that advance the science, atheists in academia are for the most part sadly stuck in post-modernist dogma and pseudo-scientific fields that do not produce anything of value and bring a lot of harm to the world.

    • Rene

      Part of where his dream originates are the CHP systems in Torino (Turin) Italy and other towns. They use a combination of energy sources for their CHP systems: Solar heat, PV, fossil fuels, wood.

      http://www.decentralized-energy.com/articles/print/volume-13/issue-4/project-profile/turin-towards-a-smart-energy-city.html
      Replace fossil fuel and/or wood burning with a high density clean energy source and yes, his dream would be quickly realized in many existing towns.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Rene,

        Yes I have some experience with CHP (Combined Heat & Power).

        Some designs are very clever, well designed and manufactured and highly efficient.

  • cashmemorz

    A multi unit would have one doing the core work as in the diag. and another one acts as external to the central one for powering the central unit. A third for backup in case the central or external need it. Repair on site or replace the one gone wrong. Or some such combination that works best in the requirements of the particular site environment. Don’t want too many backup units unless redundancy in extreme remote areas, ie. mid Sahara, Antarctica, high Himalayas, military submarines, deep mines, deep underwater habitats, in orbit and beyond or over concerned individuals that are always ready for the end of the world. These last can pay extra as insurance for themselves and to speed up financing for others that really need units.

    • cashmemorz

      Some creative finances are also in order to get this off the ground in a hurry. The key word here is hurry. A lot of people are waiting.

  • Andy Kumar

    Dreamers have a role to play in moving us forward. But I am afraid the clean energy “caravan” is passing us by, with improved solar and next-gen nuclear, we may be left watching the LENR “dust” in its wake.
    .
    This poem sums up the dreamer’s plight when the dream is “ship wrecked on the shores of reality”. There is a better translation, but I cannot find it right now. I had the privilege to see the great poet in person as a child.
    .
    *dust was all we saw, when the caravan had passed*
    .
    dreams wilted like flowers, friends hurt like thorns.
    All embellishments were like autumn tree adorns.
    The passing of spring: we just stood and watched, dust was all we saw, when the caravan had passed.
    Before we had woken up, darkness held sway before our feet could get a grip, life slipped away.
    Every leaf fell from the branches, all branches were burnt life came to an end,
    unfulfilled desires bearing the brunt. songs dissolved in tears and dreams got buried,
    after they broke and light from lamps departed clothed in smoke.
    And we just waited, bent and broken for the flow of life to ebb, to slacken.
    dust was all we saw, when the caravan had passed.
    Such beauty! flowers fell in love amazed
    Such charm! even the mirror shivered totally dazed.
    Be it earth, be it sky; every girl and every guy in one direction they all gazed.
    Everything just changed one day, buds were trampled and roads strangled what could we do?
    beaten by time near the edge.. on the brink, but nurse the hangover of last night’s drink…

    • TomR

      If LENR can not compete, it will not matter if it has an early start or later start. I think the Rossi version of LENR can do OK in the competition.

    • Warthog

      “….next-gen nuclear…” still produces lots of radwaste. It is just shorter half-life than that produced by the “standard fission cycle”.

  • artefact

    me356 on lenr-forum:

    “crawdaddy: I am convinced that I understand source of radiation and
    reason why there are neutrons and also exactly how to control this.

    It is really beutifull phenomenon, that reflects how far mankind is.

    Sadly, we were able to do this for more than 100 years.

    On the other hand, I have to admit that absolutely no energy source is
    completely safe. It is simply impossible to avoid any hazard if energy
    is produced and consumed.

    I also believe that knowledge of LENR process will be available very, very soon to all.”

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=25817#post25817

  • artefact

    me356 on lenr-forum:

    “crawdaddy: I am convinced that I understand source of radiation and
    reason why there are neutrons and also exactly how to control this.
    It is really beutifull phenomenon, that reflects how far mankind is.
    Sadly, we were able to do this for more than 100 years.

    On the other hand, I have to admit that absolutely no energy source is
    completely safe. It is simply impossible to avoid any hazard if energy
    is produced and consumed.
    I also believe that knowledge of LENR process will be available very, very soon to all.”

    https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3225-me356-Reactor-parameters-part-2/?postID=25817#post25817

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    “Andrea Rossi June 22, 2016 at 2:48 PM
    Orsobubu:
    I agree with your analysis about the Hot Fusion. About the great
    scientist that hot fusion has given to us, obviously you talk of Dr
    Pierre Clauzon ( Commissariat Pour l’Energie Atomique, Paris- France)
    now also a member of the scientific commettee of Leonardo Corporation
    that soon will work with the QuarkX too. Here is a man from whom we can
    learn.
    Warm Regards, A.R.”

    • artefact

      and:

      “Andrea Rossi June 22, 2016 at 3:04 PM
      Koen Vandewalle:
      In our scientific commettee of Leonardo Corp. we have the honour to have
      a top level scientist that worked in the Caradache plant. Obviously we
      have always to learn.
      I wnat to limit this comment to the positive things, the ones that can create synergies.
      Warm Regards, A.R.”

      • Engineer48

        Guys please stay on topic.

  • clovis ray

    HI, Engineer 48 and everyone, this is such a good idea, and something we can get our hands dirty on , loving it, and sounds like Dr. Rossi will be as close as possible to the project,
    it seems we could develop this life saving machine, which fits it style, of being a great device for the poor people, when disaster strikes, by the time we get these, type modules up and working, with many diverse attachment, the units for the poor villages, will be getting what they need most first, units might need to be custom built, . but there is plenty time for that down the road,
    once the paperwork is done, we need a small felicity, to design and build a prototype .
    i’m bookmarking this,page, i know i will be returning, this is right down my alley.
    Once again thank you sir. you’re the best, and GOOD LUCK E-48,and if you should need any help just holler,

  • Engineer48

    Guys please stay on topic.

    • clovis ray

      was i off i sorry,

  • Engineer48

    BTW an empty 8ft container weighs around 1,000kg, so not something someone will try to lift up and steal.

    More data attached.

  • Engineer48

    BTW an empty 8ft container weighs around 1,000kg, so not something someone will try to lift up and steal.

    More data attached.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    And maybe in the near future they could be delivered to remote parts of the world using QuarkX powered E-fan cargo blimps.
    https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/arctic-oil-rig.jpg?quality=65&strip=all

  • TomR

    If LENR can not compete, it will not matter if it has an early start or later start. I think the Rossi version of LENR can do OK in the competition.

  • Adam Lepczak

    it could easily morph into a modular/drop everywhere small house project that could transform the way we live. Get a basic movie in module for 20k and drop anywhere…
    Great!

  • Adam Lepczak

    it could easily morph into a modular/drop everywhere small house project that could transform the way we live. Get a basic movie in module for 20k and drop anywhere…
    Great!

  • US_Citizen71

    One person to team up with might be Dean Kamen, his Slingshot is energy efficient and would solve a couple pieces of the puzzle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distillation_system)

    • Engineer48

      Hi US,

      Thanks for the info.

      At $100k per device, that is an expensive solution. I can understand why it is not in mass production. Would seem DEKA is not a Not For Profit business which is their right.

      http://www.dekaresearch.com/water.shtml

      Would suggest with the potential power and energy available, this result could be achieved at a small fraction of the cost.

      There are those who design with no interest in what their build will cost and then there are those who go the extra mile to achieve the same result but at a fraction of the “Cost Plus 100% or more” approach.

      • US_Citizen71

        He has partnered up with Coca-Cola and hopes to bring it down to 2k per unit through mass production. The Wikipedia article is a bit dated.

  • US_Citizen71

    One person to team up with might be Dean Kamen, his Slingshot is energy efficient and would solve a couple pieces of the puzzle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distillation_system)

    • Engineer48

      Hi US,

      Thanks for the info.

      At $100k per device, that is an expensive solution. I can understand why it is not in mass production. Would seem DEKA is not a Not For Profit business, which is their right.

      http://www.dekaresearch.com/water.shtml

      Would suggest with the potential power and energy available, this result could be achieved at a small fraction of the cost.

      There are those who design with no interest in what their build will cost and then there are those who go the extra mile to achieve the same result but at a fraction of the “Cost Plus 100% or more” approach.

      • US_Citizen71

        He has partnered up with Coca-Cola and hopes to bring it down to 2k per unit through mass production. The Wikipedia article is a bit dated.

  • Engineer48

    While it is very early days, I have set a delivered price of a 50kWt, 10kWe plant with output as per the diagram at USD50,000 ex any taxes & import duties.

    With a conservative life of 10 years, life energy delivery is:

    4,380,000 max kWht (minus 2.5% battery recharge energy)

    876,000 max kWhe with reduced thermal output of
    3,504,000 max kWht

    Approx kWht $0.012 (100% thermal)
    Approx kWhe $0.06 with 80% thermal at
    Approx kWht $0.012

    Plus to be determined yearly fuel recharge costs.

    Max kg/day of steam, hot water & filtered/sterilised water to be determined. Of course using these services is limited by the thermal output capacity.

    • Alan Smith

      Hi E48.

      The socio-economic engineering aspects of this kind of project need as much thought as the practical ones. You need to consider who is going to lose their livelihood when a system like this is brought into a small community, and how the system itself can be engineered to mitigate the collateral damage. Kerosene-sellers, firewood gatherers come immediately to mind. It is always good to reach out to groups like this and find a new niche for them. In this way you reduce the chances of theft, opposition, and sabotage. So plant attendants, security guards, communal kitchen staff are all possibilities.
      By designing in benifits for the whole community too, like street and house lighting, a kitchen hub and so on your project acts as a powerful cohesive force and avoids fragmentation of opinion and support.
      I haven’t forgotten the paper on this topic I promised you btw – I have emailed my co-author to see if he still has a copy to hand – it was 10 years ago I was surprised to find- but villages don’t change much.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Alan,

        All good points.

        My thoughts are to work with health & education groups to do hospital and school installs 1st as these people and their networks already have a professional, helping & supportative mind set in place.

        Then, with open doors, wait for village elders to contact the local school or hospital maint / support person to take their inquiry to the next level. Ie let the village elders sort out the local vilage politics, as the elders have much to gain by walking through that open door.

        Additionally existing villages should have local water of some sort, so no need for desalination. Just need the ability to process the existing water to make it safe to drink.

        If questionable water needs to be walked in, then would install dirty & clean water holding tanks by the plant so there is ample on site clean water available 24/7/365.

        Basically just about anything is possible with 24/7/365 availibility of 40kWt and 10kWe of power.

  • Engineer48

    While it is very early days, I have set a delivered price of a 50kWt or 40kWt & 10kWe plant with output as per the diagram & installed in a 8ft dust & water tight shipping container at USD50,000 ex any taxes & import duties. Would like to see that price at USD25,000 or less.

    With a conservative life of 10 years, life energy delivery is:

    4,380,000 max kWht (minus 2.5% battery recharge energy)

    876,000 max kWhe with reduced thermal output of
    3,504,000 max kWht

    Approx $0.011 / kWh plus to be determined yearly fuel recharge costs.

    Max kg/day of steam, hot water & filtered/sterilised water to be determined. Of course using these services is limited by the then available unused thermal output capacity.

    Like the system schematic, the plant costing and related energy generation costs needs a model to enable open & frank discussion, so please share your thoughts.

    • Alan Smith

      Hi E48.

      The socio-economic engineering aspects of this kind of project need as much thought as the practical ones. You need to consider who is going to lose their livelihood when a system like this is brought into a small community, and how the system itself can be engineered to mitigate the collateral damage. Kerosene-sellers, firewood gatherers come immediately to mind. It is always good to reach out to groups like this and find a new niche for them. In this way you reduce the chances of theft, opposition, and sabotage. So plant attendants, security guards, communal kitchen staff are all possibilities.
      By designing in benifits for the whole community too, like street and house lighting, a kitchen hub and so on your project acts as a powerful cohesive force and avoids fragmentation of opinion and support.
      I haven’t forgotten the paper on this topic I promised you btw – I have emailed my co-author to see if he still has a copy to hand – it was 10 years ago I was surprised to find- but villages don’t change much.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Alan,

        All good points.

        My thoughts are to work with health & education groups to do hospital and school installs 1st as these people and their networks already have a professional, helping & supportative mind set in place.

        Then, with open doors, wait for village elders to contact the local school or hospital maint / support person to take their inquiry to the next level. Ie let the village elders sort out the local vilage politics, as the elders have much to gain by walking through that open door.

        Additionally existing villages should have local water of some sort, so no need for desalination. Just need the ability to process the existing water to make it safe to drink.

        If questionable water needs to be walked in, then would install dirty & clean water holding tanks by the plant so there is ample on site clean water available 24/7/365.

        Basically just about anything is possible with 24/7/365 availibility of 40kWt and 10kWe of power.

  • georgehants

    Christina, so you believe it is “the communists” that are causing widespread hunger for the American poor, my link above.
    Interesting conclusion.

  • Manuel Cruz

    You got it backwards. It’s actually the religious people the ones that start revolutions to achieve freedom, which is why tyrannies always attempt to outlaw religion and strip them of all social power.
    It’s also the religious people the ones that advance the science, atheists in academia are for the most part sadly stuck in post-modernist dogma and pseudo-scientific fields that do not produce anything of value and bring a lot of harm to the world.

  • Warthog

    Sure it can….just not with water as a working fluid. See OTEC and waste-heat recovery liquid-vapor-electricity non-aqueous devices for examples.

    • DrD

      and with fuel costs as AR predicted, conversion efficiency isn’t that crucial. Even a Rankine engines better than throwing the heat away.
      His latest (pre-Quark) estimates were:

      Andrea Rossi
      January 3rd, 2016 at 8:27 AM
      Richard Wade:
      Here are “ballpark” figures, to be worked upon:
      Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
      Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days

  • Engineer48

    Interesting the reactor’s 1,500C core temp is high enough to burn up most non desirable waste.

    QuarkX incinerators anybody?

  • Engineer48

    Interesting the reactor’s 1,500C core temp is high enough to burn up most non desirable waste.

    QuarkX incinerators anybody?

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Rossi has stated quite a low electrical output. The recent quark-X had 300 watts output (heat). However, I don’t believe that Rossi stated what electrical output was in this last case.

    Rossi has suggested about 10% in the past. So we in above we talking 30 watts.

    I may have missed the electrical output numbers, but I seem to recall 10%. And that output is already DC. Rossi stated output could be “either” DC or AC, but I assume that’s based on converting the output.

    The original output from the Quark is DC to my knowledge. (I believe this to be
    the case since Rossi stated the heat energy is converted to electricity by conventional
    means. Not aware of any “conventional” system that converts heat/light into electricity
    with an AC output).

    However, water purification, water heating (for both heating and hot water), and electricity would certainly be a “dream” device.

    The only real question here is the electrical output. A 50,000 watt unit would only give 5000 watts electrical – barley enough for a modern western household. However, a 100,000 watt unit would give 10,000 watts – that would do the trick.

    I like the idea of not requiring a sterling or some other “mechanical” system to create the electrical output. However if conversion rates are LESS than 10%, then achieving enough electrical output from this setup may have shortcomings.

    Thanks for sharing!

    And once the quark comes out, then one could certainly “build” a company around selling such a packaged up device. Like the early days of the computer industry, it was not only the computer
    makers that made money, but those having retail stores, making software etc. So
    again the Quark-X has a zillion uses, and systems such as this for the home
    would be a great consumer product.
    Given the cost of a good solar panel system, this system would also provide heating, water and electric for likely the same price. A much better system then just PV panels.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Engineer48

      Hi Albert,

      Andrea has said the electrical output, direct from the QuarkX reactor’s internal wafer (there are no additional tech to convert light or heat to electricity) is either 50Hz or 60Hz and that the voltage is very stable as load varies.

      Prototype electrical output is 10% of thermal output and if fully loaded, would generate 10% electrical and 90% thermal energy.

      Commercial units are expected to have 20% or more of total output as electrical, with thermal output dropping to 80%.

      In my plant design, the various thermal outputs eliminate the need to use electrical energy to deliver thermal energy as there is 40kWt available to warm air, generate sterilisation steam, create hot water & drive steam based water purification.
      .

    • Rene

      Rossi said AC. I think the details are being held back a bit. He tends to hold those cards close usually when an answer may give the asker some sense of the IP. I can understand if that IP is not yet patent protected and he wants to protect it.
      I stated before that the output is likely DC offsetted AC, but not necessarily a sinusoid (now that wold be wonderful miracle). I think a big electron flow happens shortly after the reactor wafer gets hit by whatever electrical, magnatic, RF drive happens. In that small mass maybe the LENR happens briefly – reaction then sputter. Then the next drive kick happens. Perhaps 50/60x per second or some harmonic. So there is some time varying waveform: a square wave, a sawtooth, a guassian, an expoential, maybe even a lot of hash, but all 0V to nV where n is hopefully bounded and reasonably constant. That’s a workable waveform. Buck boost to DC, ferro resonant to AC systems can be designed to make that into DC or clean AC.
      But those details are opaque to us presently. The above is just my guess.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Rene,

        From what I have discovered from various statements from Andrea, the electrical output is via direct connection to the 2 metal layers between the fuel.

        Which suggests to me the AC is derived via variable excitation from the energy delivered to the fuel via the heaters.

        Further it is difficult to see how the output could vary positive & negative from a zero base line, so maybe it is a time varying DC output that varies as would an AC signal with a zero volts level at the bottom of the AC cycle.

        For my plant design, a DC output is preferred as that eliminates the need for a heavy & expensive 10kW transformer, full wave rectification diodes and low ESR filter capacitors.
        .

        • DrD

          Hi Eng,
          I agree with that.
          He might not wish to be too open in JOP at this time but he might give you a private positive response on the DC option.
          Certainly, your application would benefit.
          In fact maybe you could use AC and a DC systems working together.
          Wish we had more details but — patience is the name of the game.

        • Rene

          Yes, that is exactly what I was saying by a DC offset AC waveform. A bulk DC voltage that has a time varying (AC) component is a fine thing to have as it offers the most flexibility in conditioned outputs.
          Also, the bulk DC suggests the reaction is physically asymmetric, electron/phonon flow is unilateral.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    Rossi has stated quite a low electrical output. The recent quark-X had 300 watts output (heat). However, I don’t believe that Rossi stated what electrical output was in this last case.

    Rossi has suggested about 10% in the past. So we in above we talking 30 watts.

    I may have missed the electrical output numbers, but I seem to recall 10%. And that output is already DC. Rossi stated output could be “either” DC or AC, but I assume that’s based on converting the output.

    The original output from the Quark is DC to my knowledge. (I believe this to be
    the case since Rossi stated the heat energy is converted to electricity by conventional
    means. Not aware of any “conventional” system that converts heat/light into electricity
    with an AC output).

    However, water purification, water heating (for both heating and hot water), and electricity would certainly be a “dream” device.

    The only real question here is the electrical output. A 50,000 watt unit would only give 5000 watts electrical – barley enough for a modern western household. However, a 100,000 watt unit would give 10,000 watts – that would do the trick.

    I like the idea of not requiring a sterling or some other “mechanical” system to create the electrical output. However if conversion rates are LESS than 10%, then achieving enough electrical output from this setup may have shortcomings.

    Thanks for sharing!

    And once the quark comes out, then one could certainly “build” a company around selling such a packaged up device. Like the early days of the computer industry, it was not only the computer
    makers that made money, but those having retail stores, making software etc. So
    again the Quark-X has a zillion uses, and systems such as this for the home
    would be a great consumer product.
    Given the cost of a good solar panel system, this system would also provide heating, water and electric for likely the same price. A much better system then just PV panels.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Engineer48

      Hi Albert,

      Andrea has said the electrical output, which is a direct electrical connection to the QuarkX reactor’s internal wafers (there are no additional tech to convert light or heat to electricity) is either 50Hz or 60Hz and that the voltage is very stable as load varies.

      Prototype electrical output is 10% of thermal output and if fully loaded, would generate 10% electrical and 90% thermal energy.

      Commercial units are expected to have 20% or more of total output as electrical, with thermal output dropping to 80%.

      In my plant design, the various thermal outputs eliminate the need to use electrical energy to deliver thermal energy as there is 40kWt available to warm air, generate sterilisation steam, create hot water & drive steam based water purification.

      As in regard to solar panels, this plant should deliver rated power 24/7/365, for a yearly energy output of 438,000 kWhs.

      I posted an energy cost analysis based on a 10 year life at approx $0.011 kWh ex yearly fuel costs.
      .

    • Rene

      Rossi said AC. I think the details are being held back a bit. He tends to hold those cards close usually when an answer may give the asker some sense of the IP. I can understand if that IP is not yet patent protected and he wants to protect it.
      I stated before that the output is likely DC offsetted AC, but not necessarily a sinusoid (now that wold be wonderful miracle). I think a big electron flow happens shortly after the reactor wafer gets hit by whatever electrical, magnatic, RF drive happens. In that small mass maybe the LENR happens briefly – reaction then sputter. Then the next drive kick happens. Perhaps 50/60x per second or some harmonic. So there is some time varying waveform: a square wave, a sawtooth, a guassian, an expoential, maybe even a lot of hash, but all 0V to nV where n is hopefully bounded and reasonably constant. That’s a workable waveform. Buck boost to DC, ferro resonant to AC systems can be designed to make that into DC or clean AC.
      But those details are opaque to us presently. The above is just my guess.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Rene,

        From what I have discovered from various statements from Andrea, the electrical output is via direct connection to the 2 metal layers between the fuel.

        Which suggests to me the AC is derived via variable excitation from the energy delivered to the fuel via the heaters.

        Further it is difficult to see how the output could vary positive & negative from a zero base line, so maybe it is a time varying DC output that varies as would an AC signal with a zero volts level at the bottom of the AC cycle.

        For my plant design, a DC output is preferred as that eliminates the need for a heavy & expensive 10kW transformer, full wave rectification diodes and low ESR filter capacitors.
        .

        • DrD

          Hi Eng,
          I agree with that.
          He might not wish to be too open in JOP at this time but he might give you a private positive response on the DC option.
          Certainly, your application would benefit.
          In fact maybe you could use AC and a DC systems working together.
          Wish we had more details but — patience is the name of the game.

        • Rene

          Yes, that is exactly what I was saying by a DC offset AC waveform. A bulk DC voltage that has a time varying (AC) component is a fine thing to have as it offers the most flexibility in conditioned outputs.
          Also, the bulk DC suggests the reaction is physically asymmetric, electron/phonon flow is unilateral.

  • Observer

    Lets Review:

    December 26, 2015 at 11:25 AM
    Q: Could you perhaps tell us whether the E-Cat X is producing AC or DC?
    December 26, 2015 at 3:14 PM
    A: DC, that obviously can be inverted into AC with the inverters.
    December 27, 2015 at 2:08 AM
    Q: Can the power of the E-Cat X be throttled up and down? If so, what kind of delayed response does it have?
    December 27, 2015 at 7:54 AM
    A: Yes, it cam be throttled up and down and the response is fast.
    December 30, 2015 at 11:58 AM
    Q: Can you repeatedly turn the E-Cat X off and on fast enough to produce an AC voltage without a power inverter?
    December 30, 2015 at 1:43 PM
    A: Interesting suggestion.

    From Engineer48:
    Andrea’s replies to me make it very clear the QuarkX reactor’s primary electrical output is AC at either 50Hz or 60Hz and it is stable.

    • Engineer48

      Hi Observer,

      My statement is correct and is from Andrea, from his blog, after the QuarkX results reveal and verified by direct email to him.

      I sent Andrea my plant schematic and asked him if it was correct. He replied “Very Good.

      I do take care what I post is correct, the latest data & has been, if possible, verfified by the source.

      • Observer

        I do not doubt your statement. The E-Cat X evolved.

        • Engineer48

          Hi Observer,

          Here is the iink:
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=132#comment-1201269

          And screenshot.

          There is way too much misinformation in circulation. I actively try to do what ever I can to reduce the noise level and boost the signal level.

          • Observer

            Read carefully the time line in my post and it will answer the question Rossi did not.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Observer, who wrote:
            “Q: Can you repeatedly turn the E-Cat X off and on fast enough to produce an AC voltage without a power inverter?
            December 30, 2015 at 1:43 PM
            A: Interesting suggestion.”

            Yes, indeed a very interesting observation.;)

            Thanks for pointing that out. Will bring it up in my next email to Andrea as I would prefer DC as it avoids a 10kW transformer, full wave diodes and heafty low ESR filter caps.
            .

          • DrD

            Hi Eng, Observer,
            Yes!!
            Congratulations Observer, that could indeed explain a lot!
            I’ve been uneasy about the apparent contradictions. He said many times “it’s DC” until recently when it started becoming “AC or DC” and then AC to Eng.Well observed!
            Edit: I can appreciate his reluctance to make public too much detail.

        • Engineer48

          Deleted. Wrong spot

      • Albert D. Kallal

        Asking if your schematic is “cool” or basically correct does not mean Rossi verified the
        output as AC. In fact Rossi above states:

        Are you saying Rossi directly stated output is AC? That’s not what I read so far.

        A: DC, that obviously can be inverted into AC with the inverters.

        So in above Rossi FLAT OUT STATES you are most free to invert output to AC. However, above Rossi CLEARLY states the output is DC.

        The result of the above?

        You are most free to draw “AC” on your diagram. And above Rossi says you are MOST free to have AC, but YOU WILL HAVE TO USE an inverter. So according to Rossi in several places and even in above he CLEARY FLAT OUT states the output is DC.

        Rossi also recent stated that the heat energy is converted to electric by conventional means. And all conventional means I am aware of for non-moving systems produce DC.

        So you have to re-quote where Rossi stated the output is AC. In above Rossi CLEARLY states you are most free to invert the output to AC, but that in ZERO ways and in ZERO context suggests IN ANY CONTEXT that the output is DC.

        With the given info Rossi clearly confirms output is DC, but you want to draw AC on some diagram, then fine because you be using an inverter to convert the stated DC output to AC. And Rossi stated one is most free to convert output to AC.

        I most happy to be corrected on the above DC issue. Rossi been quite consistent in his contexts. No context hints, implies that output is AC, and this is EVEN in contexts of omission by Rossi where he is not clear. Rossi only stated if you need AC, then fine and no problem – you can have it.

        If your position is based on a direct statement by Rossi that output is AC, then I 100% graciously stand corrected. However if you are “assuming” because Rossi says your diagram is great, then that’s not verification of AC output. If you have direct statements that output is AC, then why is Rossi stating DC output, and you have to use a inverter to get AC then?
        As noted, this issue changes little in your diagram since in above Rossi flat out states if you need AC output, then just use an inverter.

        Regards,
        Albert D. Kallal
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada

        • Engineer48

          Hi Albert,

          I asked Andrea, engineer to engineer, if the plant schematic was correct / functionaL. He replied “Very Good”.

          Your data is old.

          I verified the attached,
          http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=132#comment-1201269
          with Andrea via private email.

          My schematic is correct.

          He also later replied when I asked about the input that it must be AC 50Hz or 60Hz and from 120vac to 416vac.
          .

          • Albert D. Kallal

            The discussion on that blog is not clear on this issue.

            The question of “Direct AC output” was NOT in the context that Rossi stated output is AC. It more looks like Rossi “assumed” in this case since output is DC, then the question was about the inverted output – it could not be any other way if DC was the output.

            If Rossi stated output is AC before inverters, then I am MOST happy to accept that. And if Rossi flat out stated to you that output is AC, then that is really interesting news – this is thus strange!
            However, Rossi still stated the output conversion rate is only 10%.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

          • Engineer48

            Hi Albert,

            Here is my question:
            2) Is DC or AC output available directly from the reactor, without needing any type conversion?

            Andrea replied::
            AC

            That is why I confirmed everything with Andrea via email. I would seriously love the output to be DC!!?!

            He has publicly stated 20% is the production goal.

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Thank you. My sorry for “pressing” on this issue. It not some “worry” about me vs you being right or wrong. I had read + assumed DC, and I am MOST happy to be corrected on this issue.
            My apologies for taking your time on this, and I most graciously appreciate you taking time to correct me on this issue.
            Again, thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts here – I think you should plan to build those remote power units. A great business opportunity!

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • This whole project sounds great to me E48. I wish you all the luck in the world. Perhaps as things develop I and others here will find a way to assist you in this endeavour.

    • Engineer48

      Hi EEStor,

      Thanks.

      The office door is always open for a chat:
      engineer48 dot 99 at gmail dot com

  • Warthog

    The technology of low-temperature is well developed and commercially available. That is why I suggested looking at OTEC (Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion) for examples of working fluids. Geothermal power also provides examples. Generically, anything that has been used as a refrigerant is a candidate. Ammonia, isobutane, and pentafluororpropane are some I found quickly. With basically unlimited energy, thermal efficiency is much less of a factor, as DrD points out above.

  • Engineer48

    As it will be some time until delivery of the QuarkX reactors needed to build the 1st prototype plant, I have set out to investigate the possibility to 1st replicate the Black HotCat and then to alter the layering scheme to match the patent and see what effect that generates.

    I do note the Black HotCat had an open central tube, which implies to me a fuel tube was slid inside the central tube, which should make for easy fuel replacement.

    Yes I know some may see this a nuts as no one has done a “BlackCat” replication but the way I think, this configuration is the way to do it to get thermal foldback and higher COP than just radiating the thermal heat into space as in the more normal Dog Bone style HotCat reactor as attached.

    Will provide updates as I work this project.

    • Engineer48

      Here is my take on how the QuarkX reactor is constructed, based on Andrea’s patent as he has said it is.

      What amazes me is as far as I know, no replicator has tried to duplicate this sandwich which has metal on all sides of the fuel and the supplied heat applied at the central point in the stack with heat radiating outward into the fuel versus the Dog Bone method with the resistive heat outside the fuel and radiating inward to the fuel.

    • YAY!

      • Engineer48

        Hi EEStor,

        Reactor design has started.

        I believe Rossi has given away more than enough bread crumbs to replicate the BlackCat, especially with the patent disclosures and all the various test reports.

        What really amazes me is no one has tried to replicate the fairly simple to make BlackCat, basing the fuel mix on that from the patent and the control system as attached.

        I mean it is all there but for some reason everyone else wished to “reinvent the wheel”. Hey that is OK ONCE you have replicated and achieved the measured COP = 11 but that is not, IMHO, the way to start.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          Where is this diagram from? It is pretty simple in concept:

          1). Fluid pump feeding water.
          2). FC1 flow sensor
          3). TC1 — thermocouple temperature sensor
          4). PC1 — pressure?? controller
          5). CS1 — heating current switch
          6). SV1, SV2 — safety valves for overpressure 1.5, 1.8 bar.
          7). TSC1 — Thermocouple for steam temparature.
          8). CCSU — some sort of micro-controller programmed with the actual control algorithm.

          This is a basic diagram from the controller and E-cat. Big missing piece: The controller software algorithm.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            It is from the 2012 Black HotCat presentation in Italy.

            PC1 is a pressure sensor.

            4 inputs:

            FC1: Input flow
            TC1: reactor internal temperature
            PC1: reactor internal pressure
            TSC1: output steam temperature

            Only control output control seems to be the duty cycle of the power applied to the reactor heaters via a relay.

          • Thomas Kaminski

            The diagram shows a relay for the CS1 switch, but is might be a solid state relay. If so, it could be driven at a higher frequency to provide a pulse-width modulated signal with sharp risetimes/falltimes. That might induce high frequency AC content suggested in some implementations. A relay could not operate fast enough to produce much high frequency electromagnetic signals.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            Yes I understand that but with the high thermal mass of the reactor, just maybe all that is needed is a solid state relay and not a triac.

            Remember this design had only 1 output, Heated fluid, either liquid or steam.

    • Alan Smith

      Hi Engineer. Just a reminder that http://www.lookingforheat.com we probably have almost everything you need in the way of ceramics, Kanthal and chemicals, but wether you end up a customer or not, we can offer advice if you just want to bounce an idea off our skulls. Best of luck with your build!

      • Engineer48

        Hi Alan,

        I’m already looking to see it I can design in what you guys can supply.

        I’m an old KISS engineer, that doesn’t like to reinvent the wheel, unless there is no other way forward.

        • Alan Smith

          Me too. The less bits there are, the less there is to go wrong.

      • Ged

        Thank you again for your incredible materials resource.

  • CheeseDawg

    Have you looked at the Helical Outpost? Perhaps a group you could contact eventually…..

    http://www.helicalholdings.com/

  • Engineer48

    Hi EEStor,

    Reactor design has started.

    I believe Rossi has given away more than enough bread crumbs to replicate the BlackCat, especially with the patent disclosures and all the various test reports.

    What really amazes me is no one has tried to replicate the fairly simple to make BlackCat, basing the fuel mix on that from the patent and the control system as attached.

    I mean it is all there but for some reason everyone else wished to “reinvent the wheel”. Hey that is OK ONCE you have replicated and achieved the measured COP = 11 but that is not, IMHO, the way to start.

    • Thomas Kaminski

      Where is this diagram from? It is pretty simple in concept:

      1). Fluid pump feeding water.
      2). FC1 flow sensor
      3). TC1 — thermocouple temperature sensor
      4). PC1 — pressure?? controller
      5). CS1 — heating current switch
      6). SV1, SV2 — safety valves for overpressure 1.5, 1.8 bar.
      7). TSC1 — Thermocouple for steam temparature.
      8). CCSU — some sort of micro-controller programmed with the actual control algorithm.

      This is a basic diagram from the controller and E-cat. Big missing piece: The controller software algorithm.

      • Engineer48

        Hi Thomas,

        It is from the 2012 Black HotCat presentation in Italy.

        PC1 is a pressure sensor.

        4 inputs:

        FC1: Input flow
        TC1: reactor internal temperature
        PC1: reactor internal pressure
        TSC1: output steam temperature

        Only control output control seems to be the duty cycle of the power applied to the reactor heaters via a relay.

        • Thomas Kaminski

          The diagram shows a relay for the CS1 switch, but is might be a solid state relay. If so, it could be driven at a higher frequency to provide a pulse-width modulated signal with sharp risetimes/falltimes. That might induce high frequency AC content suggested in some implementations. A relay could not operate fast enough to produce much high frequency electromagnetic signals.

          • Engineer48

            Hi Thomas,

            Yes I understand that but with the high thermal mass of the reactor, just maybe all that is needed is a solid state relay and not a triac.

            Remember this design had only 1 output, Heated fluid, either liquid or steam.