New Developments at Brilliant Light Power (UPDATE: New Video, Jun 22 )

UPDATE (Jun 29, 2016)

Thanks to Byron McDonald for commenting about this today. The below video has been posted on YouTube by Brilliant Light Power. The description explains:

“Five independent validators using four cross confirming methodologies, two absolute spectroscopic and two thermal techniques using a commercial calorimeter and a heat exchanger on the SunCell, have established that the power demonstrated in this video is megawatt level with about 8 kW total input. The vapor is boiled off silver metal having a boiling point temperature of 3924 °F.”

Thanks to Pelgrim and others for pointing out recent activity at Brilliant Light Power. Posted here is a video that has been posted on YouTube yesterday along with this explanation:

“There are very interesting new developments at BrLP. The first run of a new approach that we started about a month ago is shown in the above video. The power can be extraordinary, bursts of millions of watts in a volume of a coffee cup. Cell meltdown including the thick tungsten electrodes can occur in seconds (see photo at http://brilliantlightpower.com/plasma…). Five independent validators using four cross confirming methodologies, two absolute spectroscopic and two thermal techniques using a commercial calorimeter and a heat exchanger on the SunCell, have established that the power demonstrated in this video is megawatt level with about 8 kW total input. The vapor is boiled off silver metal having a boiling point temperature of 3924 °F.”

BLP CEO Randell Mills wrote in one of the comments:

“The source of hydrogen fuel and catalyst to form hydrinos is water. A commercial enabling fuel injection system and other new features were tested in this demonstration. In the past, megawatt bursts lasting only several milliseconds with a frequency of about 1% or less of the run time were observed. Now, the power is constant. Currently, the engineering issues are solved towards a 250 kW electric device.”

There will be a demonstration held at BLP headquarters in New Jersey on June 28th for approved guests.

  • bfast

    I am still convinced of three things:
    >When the scientific dust settles, it will be discovered that the two are tightly related phenomena.
    > brilliant light is #2 in this race, behind the e-cat.
    > There will likely be room for both technical approaches in the marketplace. Likely for some applications the brilliant light method will be more effective than the E-cat/Quark-X.

    • tlp

      I mostly agree, but I think that the race is quite equal currently.
      And the first one in the market gets big advantage.

    • Omega Z

      If nothing else, Competition benefits the consumer with competitive prices.
      Without competition, well we know how that usually pans out…

  • bfast

    I am still convinced of three things:
    >When the scientific dust settles, it will be discovered that the two are tightly related phenomena.
    > brilliant light is #2 in this race, behind the e-cat.
    > There will likely be room for both technical approaches in the marketplace. Likely for some applications the brilliant light method will be more effective than the E-cat/Quark-X.

    • tlp

      I mostly agree, but I think that the race is quite equal currently.
      And the first one in the market gets big advantage.

    • HiggsField

      I would say BLP is definitely #1. Unfortunately, I can not say e-cat is #2 as I have seen zero credible evidence for any of the claims attributed to Rossi

      • enantiomer2000

        So far Rossi is mostly just hot air. We have seen nothing to substantiate his claims of superior energy density. He COULD be ahead of the competition and is just operating in secret.. I suspect that he has something, but his robotic manufacturing plants are more like 5-10 years away rather than 3-6 months away like he indicates.

    • enantiomer2000

      The E-Cat is still some big mystery and steeped in controversy. It is all Rossi says at this point. I would be very surprised if Rossi has a commercial product earlier than 2020, despite what he says. Mills OTOH has a well defined theory and his technology has been proven to work. I think they have a good shot of having commercial products before 2H of 2017. WRT the SunCell, 250kW of continuous electricity at 100kg is pretty hard to beat.

      • Omega Z

        Mills has had a well defined theory for a very very long time.
        It hasn’t been of much help…

        • enantiomer2000

          I see where you are coming from, but you must admit that his current generation Suncell is light years ahead of where his tech was 10 years ago. The energy density is off the charts.

    • Omega Z

      If nothing else, Competition benefits the consumer with competitive prices.
      Without competition, well we know how that usually pans out…

      • clovis ray

        Mergers lol,
        I can and do accept new things with an open mind, when someone comes along and discovers something with a cop of 50,, never known to man, and then someone else comes along and says he has something that he has discovered,that
        That creates large amounts of energy output than you put in,
        WELL, My B/S meter goes off
        and then there is that dark energy thing, pushed it way out in left field,

  • Ophelia Rump

    They say “holy shit” so many times that it reminds me of those youtube fake UFO videos.

    I did not see anything “holy shit” worthy, I have seen more impressive arc welders.

    • Omega Z

      I have seen more impressive arc welders.

      Here here….

  • Holy S***! Mark, you getting that? It’s So Bright! : )

  • Holy S***! Mark, you getting that? It’s So Bright! : )

  • Facepalm

    Let’s recap:
    1999: Will commercialize a hydrino power generator within a year. 1 000 W, within 4 months.
    2005: Only months away from commercialization.
    2008: 50 000 W, within 12 to 18 months.
    2009: Commercialization within 1 year to 18 months.
    2012: 100 W by the end of 2012, 1500 W 2013
    2014: 100 000 W in 16 to 18 weeks.
    2016: “…megawatt level with about 8 kW total input.”
    “Currently, the engineering issues are solved towards a 250 kW electric device.”

    • RLittle

      Can you document these dates and progress in the literature? Thanks rbl

    • Mark Underwood

      I’ve been following BLP off and on since about 1999 and Facepalm’s recounting is close to what I recall. Dr. Mills makes a breakthrough in how hydrinos are generated and makes an overly optimistic forecast, overlooking potential obstacles, such as low power density, problems with catalyst recovery, reaction quenching and massive engineering requirements. It’s a very human thing to do. And fans like myself have been on a roller coaster ride.

      Believe it or not, his forecasts with the SunCell are comparatively more measured because he appreciates more the engineering issues. But with the SunCell the the previous problems with power density, catalyst recovery and reaction quenching appear to be overcome. It’s the SunCell now or bust.

      • Axil Axil

        The Reactor meltdown problem has plagued Rossi for many year. Now Mills must understand and avoid reactor meltdown. This lack of reaction control is a huge problem and very hard to solve. A well controlled Mill reactor system may be many years off. I hope not.

        • enantiomer2000

          I hope the Suncell is not years off as well. My problem with Rossi is everything is just hearsay at this point. Does he have a stable, high energy product ready to commercialize today? He would like you to think so, but he would like you to think this for years now. My hats off to whomever can deliver first!

  • peacelovewoodstock

    Little known fact – another translation for “Eureka!” is “Holy Sh*t!”

  • peacelovewoodstock

    Little known fact – another translation for “Eureka!” is “Holy Sh*t!”

  • orsobubu

    When, in the next days, I will seize the power, at the head and in the name of the proletariat, I will take Rossi and Mills and lock them inside a room, after having grabbed their patents, then, I will make a great show of a big, ugly knobstick, and I can assure you that in a matters of very few hours they will be absolutely convinced to collaborate to carve out the best of both their systems and make it availiable – under their direction and with virtually infinite means (previously I have abolished money via a merely formal disposition) to a couple of tenth of thousands of researchers who, in the mean time, I will have taken care of strip off from their nuclear and military (now imprisoned) employers 🙂

  • Mats002

    Ok, I looked at a Mills video for the second time in 5 years.

    It still looks the same. What’s new?

    • tlp

      Holy S***!

      • Mats002

        Your sophisticated language overwhelme my curiosity for your entusiasm of BLP.

        • Axil Axil

          R. Mills has alway asserted that the energy that he sees in his experiments were based on CHEMICAL processes which are driven by the particular characteristics of the hydrino theory. There always has been a correspondence between the small amount of energy produced by LENR experiments and the small amounts of energy produced by hydrinos.

          In this latest SunCell experiment, R. Mills is seeing huge quantities of excess power produced in these reactor meltdowns, in the megawatt range. There is no way that such huge amounts of power can be produced by chemical means. This implies that the hydrino is no longer the cause of the excess energy seen in these meltdowns. Something else is going on. Mills must now explain where all this energy is coming from if it cannot be produced by chemical reactions. X-rays are being generated with energies far in excess of any electrical input voltages. What produces these X-rays?

          BLP states:

          Proof of a new energy source is provided by two otherwise inexplicable observations: (i) The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy. (ii) The emission of soft X-ray radiation at a voltage far less than that of the light energy produced and the inability of any known chemistry to release such high energy.

          • tlp

            Why don’t you read those papers Mills has written?
            There is explained that energy release is much more than chemical, how that specific X-ray radiation is generated etc.

          • Axil Axil

            Would you be so kind as to repost the links to this information for us?

          • Mats002

            Mills has tons of papers from 25+ years of risk capital science. Pick a number…

          • tlp

            Ok, just pointed you to this in an other thread:
            http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/DSC_051914.pdf

            And there is about 100 more in BLB -> publications

          • Axil Axil

            I am interested in how Mills explains this observation:

            “The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy.”

            I want to read how this item is explained in terms of hydrino theory.

          • tlp

            Maybe you should attend the demo at 28th. You could ask Mills many tricky questions.

          • Axil Axil

            If I were one of his investors, I would ask a lot of questions.

          • tlp
          • Roland

            What a novel idea…

            Isn’t reading hopelessly old fashioned, though, and won’t I look really uncool doing it?

          • Axil Axil

            http://newinflow.ru/pdf/Klimov_Poster.pdf

            The same type of generator as the SunCell bey it uses aluminum.

          • Mats002

            I lost count of those LENR reports, in principle showing the same procedure and outcome of XH, radiation and transmutation.

            I miss the replications though. Where is X replicated Y exactly?

          • Andreas Moraitis

            „There is no way that such huge amounts of power can be produced by chemical means.“

            This is an assertion which you would have to support by calculations. Independently of that, your comparison of Mills’ hydrino reactions with known chemical reactions does not work. Hydrino reactions could theoretically release up to three orders of magnitude more energy than conventional chemical reactions (but three orders of magnitude less than nuclear reactions, on the other hand).

          • Mark Underwood

            I’ve been following BLP off and on since about 1999 and Facepalm’s recounting is close to what I recall. Dr. Mills makes a breakthrough in how hydrinos are generated and makes an overly optimistic forecast, overlooking potential obstacles, such as low power density, problems with catalyst recovery, reaction quenching and massive engineering requirements. It’s a very human thing to do. And fans like myself have been on a roller coaster ride.

            Believe it or not, his forecasts with the SunCell are comparatively more measured because he appreciates more the engineering issues. But with the SunCell the the previous problems with power density, catalyst recovery and reaction quenching appear to be overcome. It’s the SunCell now or bust.

          • Axil Axil

            The Reactor meltdown problem has plagued Rossi for many year. Now Mills must understand and avoid reactor meltdown. This lack of reaction control is a huge problem and very hard to solve. A well controlled Mill reactor system may be many years off. I hope not.

          • LuFong

            How long have they managed to run this process?

          • Roland

            Dear Axil,

            Mills has, without exception, always stated the formation of a hydrino is not a chemical process.

            The concept of the hydrino is a lab testable implication of Mills’ GUT-CP. That the experiments to try ‘making’ hydrinos exist at all owes everything to Mills’ adamant desire to refute his vociferous critics over in the in the ‘quantum’ school because Mills, in a rather ironic departure, begins with Einstein’s futile bid to find the fatal flaw in quantum mechanics, whatever your interpretation, and conclusively demonstrate that, in his phrase, ‘God does not play dice with the universe’.

            Mills states that the electron in a hydrogen atom does not exist in some generalized and amorphous ‘cloud’ of probabilities but, rather, that the electron in a hydrogen atom has a completely specific geometry that has no probabilistic attributes whatsoever.

            Mills focused on this singular and fundamental difference, in the two physics, because his theory says there is a lower valence state, the hydrino, than quantum mechanics allows for; in short he proposed to make one white crow to disprove the contention that all crows are black.

            There is a complete physical description of the characteristics of the hydrino that predates any actual physical experimentation to ‘make’ one.

            The complete set of predictions for the hydrino, implicit in the GUT-CP, have been confirmed by six sets of independent third party validators in laboratory tests where the examiners built the devices from supplied parts and brought all their own test instruments in addition to those already at hand.

            There are full bios on all the validators, not a lightweight among them, and data in depth.

            Given that the hydrino is only one of several highly unusual predictions based on Mills’ GUT-CP that have proven correct any open minded person should suspect that the man is on to something and decidedly not some scurrilous dilettante, as some have suggested.

            The outpouring of energy is concomitant to the percentage conversion of hydrogen to hydrinos and mass/time.

            Mills’ story line can look like a man who never arrives; or a man who has found successive apparatuses and pathways to make more and more hydrinos faster and faster.

            The validated devices made electricity directly, were elegant in design and construction and were quite reliable. What they didn’t do was make hydrinos really, really fast so that you could achieve the really high power density implicate to the underlying physics.

            Running the math on the 100% conversion of a mole of H2O to O and two hydrinos in, say, a millisecond is quite illuminating to say the least; probably just as well, too, that we’re not there yet…

          • Axil Axil

            Dear Roland,
            Thanks for the long explanation of Mills theory. But their might be a way to delineate how the blue light is produced in the experiments that all those hydrino validators see in their experiments.

            I say that the blue light comes from polaritons. This polariton origin of the blue light can be verified because the light is coherent and will show the Mollow triplet in its spectral lines. Polaritons produce laser light and any atom that is irradiated using laser light will show a Mollow triplet.

            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Mollow_triplet.pdf/page1-800px-Mollow_triplet.pdf.jpg

            Dressed in the picture means irradiated with a laser,

            The same test can be applied to the blue light that Rossi is generating in the QuarkX. Rossi is producing coherent laser light generated by polaritons. . The blue light produced in sonoluminescence will also show this polariton coherent spectral signature.

            This is a prediction from theory which asserts that polaritons are the causative mechanism in the LENR mechanism including what Mills has been seeing over all these years..

          • Roland

            The photons emitted at the source when the electron ‘drops’ to the lower valance that distinguishes the hydrino from hydrogen have a wavelength of 10.1nm at an energy of 124eV and thus have no colour as they’re in the extreme ultraviolet range, nor are they coherent.

          • Nicholas Chandler-Yates

            Please stop with the BLP stories, they destroy any credibility this site has.

          • John Schut

            I totaly agree with you!

          • LuFong

            So many promising new energy technologies, so little data! I think these are all in the same ball park. This is a site about the E-Cat but this development would be interesting competition if true (whatever they managed to show, I haven’t thoroughly looked).

          • R V

            No. It adds credibility.

    • Mark Underwood

      They’ve only had the SunCell for two years, and the silver vapour method for less than half a year. How can you say it looks the same as 5 years ago?

  • Mats002

    Ok, I looked at a Mills video for the second time in 5 years.

    It still looks the same. What’s new?

    • tlp

      Holy S***!

      • Mats002

        Your sophisticated language overwhelme my curiosity for your entusiasm of BLP.

    • Mark Underwood

      They’ve only had the SunCell for two years, and the silver vapour method for less than half a year. How can you say it looks the same as 5 years ago?

  • Observer

    Two questions:
    How long can it run before the cell needs to be replaced?
    What is the efficiency of silver recovery and re-use?

    • tlp

      About 20 years. Could be obsolete and replaced by a new version sooner.
      Silver lasts infinitely, would be recycled, as most of the materials when replaced by a newer model.

      • Observer

        The question is how much silver do you loose in forming the silver capsules and how much silver vapor do you not recover for recycling. Given that water is cheap, I would think the need to replenish silver over time would dominate the operating costs.

        • tlp

          No silver capsules, just liquid silver. All silver vapor condensates again to liquid silver.
          Recycling happens after 20 years life time. Take the silver and put it in a new machine.

          • Observer

            How much silver is required to run the device for 20 years?

          • tlp

            Same amount as to run it 20 minutes.
            And after 20 years you recycle the machine, and get all that silver back, to use again in some other purpose.

      • Axil Axil

        Silver could be recycled but it would be easier if the silver was not contaminated by the electrode material…tungsten or carbon.

    • Mark Underwood

      Yesterday on youtube, Mills commented that the demonstration day on June 28th will include “Closed cell engineering, validated power balance, chemistry for commercial cell”.

      The Suncell is vented; the hydrino waste and oxygen are vented out. But the silver vapour would be vented out as well. Somehow this has to be captured and recycled back. Presumably the demonstration day will show how this is done.

      • tlp

        I don’t think it is a broblem, you just need to cool vented gases below silver boiling point.

        • Axil Axil

          This condensation could be done using a heat pipe where the silver vapor coats the cold surface end of the heat pipe. The heat pipe would remove heat from the SunCell and generate steam or be vented as waste energy.

          • tlp

            Maybe, but just good old water cooling does the job also. There is water cooling also for those PV panels.
            It is true that those very high temperature cooling needs could use more sophisticated method to generate more electricity utilizing high temp carnot cycle.

  • Observer

    Two questions:
    How long can it run before the cell needs to be replaced?
    What is the efficiency of silver recovery and re-use?

    • tlp

      About 20 years. Could be obsolete and replaced by a new version sooner.
      Silver lasts infinitely, would be recycled, as most of the materials when replaced by a newer model.

      • Observer

        The question is how much silver do you loose in forming the silver capsules and how much silver vapor do you not recover for recycling. Given that water is cheap, I would think the need to replenish silver over time would dominate the operating costs.

        • tlp

          No silver capsules, just liquid silver. All silver vapor condensates again to liquid silver.
          Recycling happens after 20 years life time. Take the silver and put it in a new machine.

          • Observer

            How much silver is required to run the device for 20 years?

          • tlp

            Same amount as to run it 20 minutes.
            And after 20 years you recycle the machine, and get all that silver back, to use again in some other purpose.

      • Axil Axil

        Silver could be recycled but it would be easier if the silver was not contaminated by the electrode material…tungsten or carbon.

    • Mark Underwood

      Yesterday on youtube, Mills commented that the demonstration day on June 28th will include “Closed cell engineering, validated power balance, chemistry for commercial cell”.

      The Suncell is vented; the hydrino waste and oxygen are vented out. But the silver vapour would be vented out as well. Somehow this has to be captured and recycled back. Presumably the demonstration day will show how this is done.

      • tlp

        I don’t think it is a broblem, you just need to cool vented gases below silver boiling point.

        • Axil Axil

          This condensation could be done using a heat pipe where the silver vapor coats the cold surface end of the heat pipe. The heat pipe would remove heat from the SunCell and generate steam or be vented as waste energy.

          • tlp

            Maybe, but just good old water cooling does the job also. There is water cooling also for those PV panels.
            It is true that those very high temperature cooling needs could use more sophisticated method to generate more electricity utilizing high temp carnot cycle.

  • Axil Axil

    R. Mills has alway asserted that the energy that he sees in his experiments were based on CHEMICAL processes which are driven by the particular characteristics of the hydrino theory. There always has been a correspondence between the small amount of energy produced by LENR experiments and the small amounts of energy produced by hydrinos.

    In this latest SunCell experiment, R. Mills is seeing huge quantities of excess power produced in these reactor meltdowns, in the megawatt range. There is no way that such huge amounts of power can be produced by chemical means. This implies that the hydrino is no longer the cause of the excess energy seen in these meltdowns. Something else is going on. Mills must now explain where all this energy is coming from if it cannot be produced by chemical reactions. X-rays are being generated with energies far in excess of any electrical input voltages. What produces these X-rays?

    BLP states:

    Proof of a new energy source is provided by two otherwise inexplicable observations: (i) The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy. (ii) The emission of soft X-ray radiation at a voltage far less than that of the light energy produced and the inability of any known chemistry to release such high energy.

    • tlp

      Why don’t you read those papers Mills has written?
      There is explained that energy release is much more than chemical, how that specific X-ray radiation is generated etc.

      • Axil Axil

        Would you be so kind as to repost the links to this information for us?

        • Mats002

          Mills has tons of papers from 25+ years of risk capital science. Pick a number…

        • tlp

          Ok, just pointed you to this in an other thread:
          http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/papers/DSC_051914.pdf

          And there is about 100 more in BLP -> publications

          • Axil Axil

            I am interested in how Mills explains this observation:

            “The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy.”

            I want to read how this item is explained in terms of hydrino theory.

          • tlp

            Maybe you should attend the demo at 28th. You could ask Mills many tricky questions.

          • Axil Axil

            If I were one of his investors, I would ask a lot of questions.

          • tlp
      • Roland

        What a novel idea…

        Isn’t reading hopelessly old fashioned, though, and won’t I look really uncool doing it?

    • HHiram

      Unless we see a PV panel outputting a lot more energy than is input into this system, I see nothing in the setup that can’t plausibly be explained as by a simple controlled arc explosion. You said “in the absence of any input electrical power”, but the device in the video is clearly being powered – and not by fire or steam, so obviously by electricity.

      With Rossi we have hot water / steam to measure. With this? Just light. And bright flashes in the MW range (just brief) that produce x-rays are characteristic of arc explosions, lightning, etc.

      Really, I have a very hard time taking Mills seriously. I want to, but I don’t find this work nearly as compelling as Rossi’s. And Rossi I still don’t have more than 50% confidence in.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      „There is no way that such huge amounts of power can be produced by chemical means.“

      This is an assertion which you would have to support by calculations. Independently of that, your comparison of Mills’ hydrino reactions with known chemical reactions does not work. Hydrino reactions could theoretically release up to three orders of magnitude more energy than conventional chemical reactions (but three orders of magnitude less than nuclear reactions, on the other hand).

    • Roland

      Dear Axil,

      Mills has, without exception, always stated the formation of a hydrino is not a chemical process.

      The concept of the hydrino is a lab testable implication of Mills’ GUT-CP. That the experiments to try ‘making’ hydrinos exist at all owes everything to Mills’ adamant desire to refute his vociferous critics over in the in the ‘quantum’ school because Mills, in a rather ironic departure, begins with Einstein’s futile bid to find the fatal flaw in quantum mechanics, whatever your interpretation, and conclusively demonstrate that, in his phrase, ‘God does not play dice with the universe’.

      Mills states that the electron in a hydrogen atom does not exist in some generalized and amorphous ‘cloud’ of probabilities but, rather, that the electron in a hydrogen atom has a completely specific geometry that has no probabilistic attributes whatsoever.

      Mills focused on this singular and fundamental difference, in the two physics, because his theory says there is a lower valence state, the hydrino, than quantum mechanics allows for; in short he proposed to make one white crow to disprove the contention that all crows are black.

      There is a complete physical description of the characteristics of the hydrino that predates any actual physical experimentation to ‘make’ one.

      The complete set of predictions for the hydrino, implicit in the GUT-CP, have been confirmed by six sets of independent third party validators in laboratory tests where the examiners built the devices from supplied parts and brought all their own test instruments in addition to those already at hand.

      There are full bios on all the validators, not a lightweight among them, and data in depth.

      Given that the hydrino is only one of several highly unusual predictions based on Mills’ GUT-CP that have proven correct any open minded person should suspect that the man is on to something and decidedly not some scurrilous dilettante, as some have suggested.

      The outpouring of energy is concomitant to the percentage conversion of hydrogen to hydrinos and mass/time.

      Mills’ story line can look like a man who never arrives; or a man who has found successive apparatuses and pathways to make more and more hydrinos faster and faster.

      The validated devices made electricity directly, were elegant in design and construction and were quite reliable. What they didn’t do was make hydrinos really, really fast so that you could achieve the really high power density implicate to the underlying physics.

      Running the math on the 100% conversion of a mole of H2O to O and two hydrinos in, say, a millisecond is quite illuminating to say the least; probably just as well, too, that we’re not there yet…

      • Axil Axil

        Dear Roland,
        Thanks for the long explanation of Mills theory. But their might be a way to delineate how the blue light is produced in the experiments that all those hydrino validators see in their experiments.

        I say that the blue light comes from polaritons. This polariton origin of the blue light can be verified because the light is coherent and will show the Mollow triplet in its spectral lines. Polaritons produce laser light and any atom that is irradiated using laser light will show a Mollow triplet.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Mollow_triplet.pdf/page1-800px-Mollow_triplet.pdf.jpg

        Dressed in the picture means irradiated with a laser,

        The same test can be applied to the blue light that Rossi is generating in the QuarkX. Rossi is producing coherent laser light generated by polaritons. . The blue light produced in sonoluminescence will also show this polariton coherent spectral signature.

        This is a prediction from theory which asserts that polaritons are the causative mechanism in the LENR mechanism including what Mills has been seeing over all these years..

        • Roland

          The photons emitted at the source when the electron ‘drops’ to the lower valance that distinguishes the hydrino from hydrogen have a wavelength of 10.1nm at an energy of 124eV and thus have no colour as they’re in the extreme ultraviolet range, nor are they coherent.

  • Axil Axil

    The meltdowns that are now occurring in the SunCell where the tungsten electrodes are being vaporized in a high powered reaction might be solved through the use of a liquid or plasma based electrode. Ken Shoulders used this concept in his equipment to minimize the wear and tear on his equipment.

    A two streams of liquid metal formed under high pressure, one being the anode and the other being the cathode could be directed at each other each carrying a low voltage high amperage electric current. These two streams could be made to contact each other where a low voltage high current electric arc would occur. These liquid electrodes would constantly reconstitute themselves after the production of a megawatt level explosion.

    • tlp

      Quite similar idea presented about 17 hours ago in SCP-list:
      The excitement grows! I wonder if it’s possible to use molten jet electrodes – ceramic jets that create near parallel streams of molten tungsten and inject the solid fuel between them? The solid electrodes would be used for startup and would need to be replenished such as a coil of wire that is cranked out as it melts away, but when there is sufficient molten tungsten/silver the molten jets would kick in via a second electromagnetic pump and the solid fuel flow would be switched from the solid electrodes to the molten ones. Or possibly the molten electrodes could be arranged to ignite the fuel flow before it reaches the solid electrodes?

  • John

    I wonder if there is any connection between Randell Mills and Hank Mills.

    • Omega Z

      They share last names. Nothing more that I’m aware of…

      • Mike Henderson

        Rumor Mills and Puppy Mills, too.

  • Anon2012_2014

    BLP:

    Can someone turn the BLP watts into joules.

    Yes I know they can spark off MWs for microseconds.

    I need to know how much total energy in and total energy out before I get excited.

    • Anon2012_2014

      “There will be a demonstration held at BLP headquarters in New Jersey on June 28th for approved guests.”

      i.e. investors who are not critical enough to discern true economically recoverable energy production from a bright flashing light demo.

      Let me know if they want to let critical people into their demo and what level of access they will provide to validate total joules provided to the machine and joules produced.

      And while we are at it, how much investor money has BLP spent in the past 20 years to get to here and how much more will it take before they provide simple and patented instructions to allow any third party university to do an incontrovertible test. The clock has been running for a long time.

      • Omega Z

        ->”how much investor money has BLP spent in the past 20 years”

        After their last funding round, they’ve got to be pushing the 100 Million$ envelope.

  • Anon2012_2014

    BLP:

    Can someone turn the BLP watts into joules.

    Yes I know they can spark off MWs for microseconds.

    I need to know how much total energy in and total energy out before I get excited.

    • Anon2012_2014

      “There will be a demonstration held at BLP headquarters in New Jersey on June 28th for approved guests.”

      i.e. investors who are not critical enough to discern true economically recoverable energy production from a bright flashing light demo.

      Let me know if they want to let critical people into their demo and what level of access they will provide to validate total joules provided to the machine and joules produced.

      And while we are at it, how much investor money has BLP spent in the past 20 years to get to here and how much more will it take before they provide simple and patented instructions to allow any third party university to do an incontrovertible test. The clock has been running for a long time.

      • Omega Z

        ->”how much investor money has BLP spent in the past 20 years”

        After their last funding round, they’ve got to be pushing the 100 Million$ envelope.

  • RLittle

    Can you document these dates and progress in the literature? Thanks rbl

  • Omega Z

    They share last names. Nothing more that I’m aware of…

    • Mike Henderson

      Rumor Mills and Puppy Mills, too.

  • Omega Z

    I have seen more impressive arc welders.

    Here here….

  • Omega Z

    Mills has had a well defined theory for a very very long time.
    It hasn’t been of much help…

  • Axil Axil

    http://newinflow.ru/pdf/Klimov_Poster.pdf

    The same type of generator as the SunCell but it uses aluminum.

    • Mats002

      I lost count of those LENR reports, in principle showing the same procedure and outcome of XH, radiation and transmutation.

      I miss the replications though. Where is X replicated Y exactly?

  • Axil Axil

    I would like to see those fumes coming off the arc of the SunCell captured, condensed and analyzed to see if transmutation of elements are occurring.

    Transmutation always occurred in emissions produced by electrical discharge. If transmutation is found in SunCell fumes, what does that say about the hydrino theory? R. Mills can’t hide from the truth forever. Somebody, someday will detect transmutation in one of Mills’ systems and then the jig is up for Mills.

  • Axil Axil

    I would like to see those fumes coming off the arc of the SunCell captured, condensed and analyzed to see if transmutation of elements are occurring.

    Transmutation always occurred in emissions produced by electrical discharge. If transmutation is found in SunCell fumes, what does that say about the hydrino theory? R. Mills can’t hide from the truth forever. Somebody, someday will detect transmutation in one of Mills’ systems and then the jig is up for Mills.

    • enantiomer2000

      Maybe Mills theory is completely wrong, but I doubt it. All I care about is, can he get a commercial product out next year?

  • NCY

    Please stop with the BLP stories, they destroy any credibility this site has.

    • John Schut

      I totaly agree with you!

    • enantiomer2000

      No you please stop. BRLP is by far the most promising energy company.

    • D

      Having actually attended a BLP public demo, I can assure you, he has more than enough creds to be listed on this site. He has a good bit of military backing. Do some due diligence and do a bit of research at their web site.

    • R V

      No. It adds credibility.

  • Byron McDonald

    Another BLP video posted yesterday….. https://youtu.be/Q8Af1u9W–Q

  • GreenWin

    Interesting the BLP innovations appear to track right behind those of Dr. Rossi. Hmmmm?

    • clovis ray

      yep,

    • Axil Axil

      There is nothing new under the sun. Jo Papp’s first engine patented in the 1960s was based on water vapor. It produced a shock wave and overunity electrons but little or no heat.

      If you take a look at the power as a function of wavelength, the SunCell produces virtually no heat. Mills has just rediscovered the Papp reaction, IMHO.

      • R V

        The ‘Papp’ reaction is one of those many talked about but never duplicated things. Who knows what if anything was really there. Mills is not some basement inventor. He’s a highly trained scientist.

        • Axil Axil

          The engine was patented after it past a test set up by the patent office, It worked…

          The fuel was what made the energy work, nobody could reproduce the fuel. Maybe it was hydrinos in that fuel.

          • R V

            I doubt he would have know or been able to make hydrino’s and use them as fuel. Basically, since no one knows how it worked, it doesn’t matter.

          • Axil Axil

            Papp also spaghettified a 5/8 thick stainless steel pipe with 8 drops of treated water.

          • R V

            Whatever. I really don’t know or care about some guy named Papp from the 60’s.

          • Axil Axil

            If you don;t study history, you are domed to relive it.

          • R V

            Mills’ work stands on its own regardless of some dead guy named Papp or anyone else. No, I don’t have to study Papp to study Mills’ work.

          • Axil Axil

            Such study is important to know what has been patented and what is open source. Mills may not be able to patent his stuff if it was done before, So Sad.

          • R V

            Mills already has worldwide patent protection. Papp’s work would be restricted to his specific designs, not the hydrino.

            Besides, Papp has been dead for decades. His patents are likely in the public domain by now.

            I think your just groping.

      • Mark Underwood

        What is interesting is that with the SunCell there is very little shock, or pressure wave. Mills discovered this where he tried to employ magneto hydrodynamics in the very early stages. Not enough motion in the plasma. So, discovering that the energy output is much more electromagnetic than kinetic, he went the solar cell route.

        • R V

          Yet it could still be engineered into a piston engine with a little work to convert the heat to motion. Not that one really wants or needs to do that.

        • Axil Axil

          I beleive that if the plasma was confined in a small volume, the pressure generated by the plasma explosion would be substantial. Like any explosive process confinement is required,

          • R V

            Mills does have a patent on a piston type engine but that is not his primary focus now.

  • GreenWin

    Interesting the BLP innovations appear to track right behind those of Dr. Rossi. Hmmmm?

    • optiongeek

      I think you have this somewhat backwards. Mills discovered back in 2008, and subsequently rejected as infeasible, the Ni-based technology behind Rossi’s current experiments. Although he obtained results similar (but to my mind superior) to what Rossi is getting now, Mills deemed the power generation was too low density to be economically competitive. And more importantly, the effect dissipated over time as the catalyst (i.e. Ni) degraded. This seems to be what Rossi is acknowledging. Rossi’s cells require frequent “reconditioning”.
      In contrast, Mills’ current generation relying on hydrated molten silver seem to have overcome both issues. Power density is several orders of magnitude higher. And silver doesn’t degrade as it cycles between liquid and gas.
      Most importantly, if you watch one of Mills’ demos (where are the video’s from Rossi one wonders), you will see a process that is completely controlled. A switch is flipped, and the reaction starts in a completely understood and controlled manner. I’m very much looking forward to seeing the videos from yesterday’s presentation where he was to have demonstrated a “closed” system in operation.

      • tlp

        We’ll see next week, but the closed system is not so “flashy” anymore. Though those calorimetric measurements should be interesting to see.

        • optiongeek

          Here’s the proof Mills provides showing the power output of each of the “flashes”. It’s the output of a spectrometer that can measure the light intensity at each frequency in terms of kW/Hz. Integrating over the entire spectrum gives a measured output of 527kW in each flash. However, the flash only required 5kW of input electrical power to generate, so the process has a COP of over 100. I submit this is much better and more accurate that “calorimetry”, which isn’t even useful when we’re talking about photovoltaic generation. If you’re looking for calorimetry, I think you’ll be disappointed.

          • tlp

            “Five independent validators using four cross confirming methodologies, two absolute spectroscopic and two thermal techniques using a commercial calorimeter and a heat exchanger on the SunCell, have established that the power demonstrated in this video is megawatt level with about 8 kW total input.”
            Three of these methods were presented in the demo yesterday, well see next week which three.

          • Axil Axil

            There is a lot of XUV produced. Mills needs to downshift that light through fluorescence to get that light into the range that can be converted to current using PV.

          • optiongeek

            The XUV is absorbed in the first cm or so by the Argon environment and re-emitted as blackbody. However, the Argon is contained by a tungsten “cap” that will absorb the blackbody and then glow like a lightbulb at 10,000 sun intensity. The light thrown off from the tungsten is what will be captured by the PV.

          • Mark Underwood

            I heard that the silver vapour re-emits the XUV as blackbody. Didn’t know that about the Argon.

          • R V

            That’s also the function of the silver aside from being a low resistivity host for the hydrogen and water.

          • optiongeek

            I didn’t think the silver vapor was ever intended to be part of the optical power train but I may be wrong. My impression is that it was simply an artefact of the reaction. I think Mills would prefer that the silver *didn’t* vaporize as there is a *lot* of energy that needs to be managed as part of that cycle

          • R V

            No, it’s part of the optical conversion process. It may not be the only way and some conversion happens in Argon or air but he has stated its part of the conversion.

          • enantiomer2000

            That is what he is doing.

          • Gerard McEk

            Only if both triggering (power input) and licht flash (power output) were happening during the same length of time, then this calculation is right. COP is about energy, not power.
            Assume power input was 8 kW during 1 second and the power output was 800 kW during 0.01 sec, then the COP is 1. If both are 1 sec, then COP=100. If the output is 800 kW during 5 sec, and the input 8 kW during 1 sec, then the COP is 500.

          • Mark Underwood

            “It’s the output of a spectrometer that can measure the light intensity at each frequency in terms of kW/Hz.”

            That graph confuses me, namely the labelling of the y axis. If it was simply W, watts, I would get it. But it is watts divided by the wavelength. (Not by the frequency as per your quote.)

            Is the y axis mislabelled ?

          • Job001

            Nice graph. This also explains a lot, the wave lengths represent much more energy than is in the visible range of 400 to 700nm. As can be read the watts at the visible range are about maybe 20w/nm while the peaks are mostly above 2000w/nm. An accurate result comes from computer integration of the peaks.

        • Gerard McEk

          Yes, I finally hope to hear what the COP is. Talking about power flashes (8kW in and 1MW out) is just a joke. If I unload a 1 joule capacitor in 1 micro second that I have also produced a megawatt. Or if you blow you fuse at home, by short-circuiting the socket than you may also have generated a megawatt in the fuse during a millisecond. Everyone can do that, just be careful.

          • Axil Axil

            If a one microsecond long spark can produce an 30 microsecond plasma ball, the COP will be 30. This is, if the spark and plasma are of equal power densities.

          • Gerard McEk

            Indeed, what is missing in the revelations of BP is the factor time.

          • R V

            I hope the demo is not short pulses as you think. But recent videos show long bursts in the megawatt range, say 30 seconds or so, with constant KW range input. Output power is optical, not electrical

          • Axil Axil

            Does an electrostatic charge build up on the SuCell? I predict that it will,

          • R V

            That’s the main reason Mills uses high current, to overcome electrostatic repulsion that self limits the hydrino reaction.

      • Jas

        It doesn’t matter at the moment who’s device is superior to the other. What matters is that we are able to replace dirty polluting coal power plants and the internal combustion engine. It will take decades to make the planet green. The more inventors and inventions the quicker we reach that goal.

        • tlp

          The first one in the market is going to get a clear advantage, but these initial implementations are so different that they could fill different market segments.

      • Mark Underwood

        As I recall from the video at Rowan University years ago, Mill’s Raney Nickel experiment yielded a short spike (mere seconds?) of intense heat, and it was over. That was with what seemed to be on the order of about a kilogram of nickel powder. In a nutshell it suffered from reaction quenching, low power density, and the difficulty that would be involved in recycling/reactivating the nickel.

        On the other hand, Rossi uses a mere gram or so of material that goes on producing heat for months, apparently. So it’s hard to see how Mill’s and Rossi’s phenomena are related.

        Looking forward to Mill’s video of demonstration day yesterday. What will be different I believe is that the silver won’t simply be vented out with everything else but will be captured and recycled back to the system. Also they are boasting a new ignition system that puts even thick tungsten electrodes in jeopardy, or so it seems 🙂

        • optiongeek

          According the reports I read, including the independent validations, the setups typically ran for months. Power characteristics were similar to Rossi.

          • Mark Underwood

            I’ve been following BLP loosely since 1999 and I don’t recall such. If you happen across such a report I would be interested to see it thx

          • optiongeek

            Then you haven’t been paying attention. I read all six independent validation reports carefully. CIHT generation of technology looks a lot like E-Cat. It ran for months at a time, generated excess heat in the 2 – 10COP range, but eventually degraded as the Ni structure lost surface area for the reaction to occur. Mills discarded it as infeasible.

          • Mark Underwood

            Well I can’t find it. The particular type of CIHT technology that could apparently work for a fairly long duration in the tens of watts range looked nothing like the E-cat. It was an electrochemical cell. (See attached pic from around 2012)

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d589a198d399df42b2dea5089c0c6de59e44ea6c553f4503af17cd4526ab4512.jpg

            Meanwhile, the type that did look like the eCat, with the Nickel powder inside a cylinder as tested at Rowan University, was very short lived, giving off a burst of heat, then it was finished.

          • optiongeek

            So you’re looking at the same thing then. However, if one were to scale up the CIHT battery type experiment and made it into a shipping container like Rossi seems to have done, perhaps Mills would have be able to chain enough together to get the levels of power that Rossi supposedly saw. Mills obviously didn’t see that as a viable path with his version and went in a new direction.

          • Axil Axil

            The electrode only lasts a minute or two, What gives?

          • optiongeek

            Axil, please pay attention. We’re talking about the work starting in 2008 at Rowan University and elsewhere that focused on Raney Nickel – the CIHT generation of technology. CIHT was extensively replicated by independent validations. The results were similar to what we’re seeing today with Rossi – the reactions produced power for months at a time.

            Scan the Brilliantlightpower.com publications page and look for documents on CIHT.

            http://brilliantlightpower.com/publications/

          • R V

            That proves the power of the reaction and the large energy release.

          • Axil Axil

            No, I mean how can Mill have run the SunCell of months when the electrodes only lasts for minutes.

        • R V

          Mills has moved way, way, way beyond small scale experiments with Nickel.

          Who knows what Rossi really does. He makes such a mess of things he should simply be ignored.

          • clovis ray

            crapolla,is what mills has, let’s see i’ll take one of Dr,R reactors, mix a little coco powder in the fuel mix, wow ‘ now i will paten, my very own hot dog power plant, but it has nothing to do with the E-CAT, yeh’ right.

      • Robert Dorr

        Regarding Mills technology, I see a problem with continuous contamination of the power generating surfaces (electrodes primarily). All of the various metallic vapors being deposited everywhere would appear to be quite a limiting factor in an attempt to produce a continuous power source operating over an extended period of time. Has he indicated how he intends to get around this problem? And as Axil mentioned, has he indicated how he will handle the potential problem of the transmutation of the metals that he is using or does his hydrino theory preclude transmutation?

        • artefact

          The final product and the demo yesterday are in a closed reaction chamber so, that the silver does not get lost and gets reused all the time. Water (or Hydrogen) is inserted continuos into the chamber as the fuel.

          If his hydrino theory is what is at play then there will not be much contamination. If it is lenr then there will be some. We will hopefully see in the future..

          • R V

            Do you know that or are you making suppositions?

          • Axil Axil

            Get some of that spent silver from Mills. I will pay MFMP to analyze it for transmutation of elements.

          • R V

            Do your own experiments. Unlike Rossi, you can get all the data you need from Mills’ papers.

          • Axil Axil

            Ken Shoulders also has gone spark based experimentation for his entire life and has shown transmutation produced using spark so I know that Mills work will also show transmutation.

    • clovis ray

      yep,

    • roseland67

      Conspiratorially thinking that IH may have colluded with BLP using Rossi’s IP?

      Interesting

      • R V

        Mills thinks Rossi is a fraud so unlikely.

    • Axil Axil

      There is nothing new under the sun. Jo Papp’s first engine patented in the 1960s was based on water vapor. It produced a shock wave and overunity electrons but little or no heat.

      If you take a look at the power as a function of wavelength, the SunCell produces virtually no heat. Mills has just rediscovered the Papp reaction, IMHO.

      • R V

        The ‘Papp’ reaction is one of those many talked about but never duplicated things. Who knows what if anything was really there. Mills is not some basement inventor. He’s a highly trained scientist.

        • Axil Axil

          The engine was patented after it past a test set up by the patent office, It worked…

          The fuel was what made the energy work, nobody could reproduce the fuel. Maybe it was hydrinos in that fuel.

          • R V

            I doubt he would have know or been able to make hydrino’s and use them as fuel. Basically, since no one knows how it worked, it doesn’t matter.

          • Axil Axil

            Papp also spaghettified a 5/8 thick stainless steel pipe with 8 drops of treated water.

          • R V

            Whatever. I really don’t know or care about some guy named Papp from the 60’s.

          • Axil Axil

            If you don;t study history, you are domed to relive it.

          • R V

            Mills’ work stands on its own regardless of some dead guy named Papp or anyone else. No, I don’t have to study Papp to study Mills’ work.

          • Axil Axil

            Such study is important to know what has been patented and what is open source. Mills may not be able to patent his stuff if it was done before, So Sad.

          • R V

            Mills already has worldwide patent protection. Papp’s work would be restricted to his specific designs, not the hydrino.

            Besides, Papp has been dead for decades. His patents are likely in the public domain by now.

            I think your just groping.

      • Mark Underwood

        What is interesting is that with the SunCell there is very little shock, or pressure wave. Mills discovered this where he tried to employ magneto hydrodynamics in the very early stages. Not enough motion in the plasma. So, discovering that the energy output is much more electromagnetic than kinetic, he went the solar cell route.

        • R V

          Yet it could still be engineered into a piston engine with a little work to convert the heat to motion. Not that one really wants or needs to do that.

        • Axil Axil

          I beleive that if the plasma was confined in a small volume, the pressure generated by the plasma explosion would be substantial. Like any explosive process confinement is required,

          • R V

            Mills does have a patent on a piston type engine but that is not his primary focus now.

  • optiongeek

    Recent update from Mills on yesterday’s demo:

    “We will post it in a week or so and do a press release. It is definitely a must see. The megawatt-scale power balance is demonstrated live by three methodologies. It is obvious that we are nearing commercialization and the power source reinvents electricity.”

  • tlp

    The demo was yesterday:
    “We will post it in a week or so and do a press release. It is definitely a must see. The megawatt-scale power balance is demonstrated live by three methodologies. It is obvious that we are nearing commercialization and the power source reinvents electricity.”

    • Axil Axil

      What does “power source reinvents electricity.” mean is other words if you know.

      • tlp

        I think it means that electricity becomes almost free, available everywhere, in mobile applications also.

        • R V

          And completely green energy too.

  • tlp

    The demo was yesterday:
    “We will post it [the video] in a week or so and do a press release. It is definitely a must see. The megawatt-scale power balance is demonstrated live by three methodologies. It is obvious that we are nearing commercialization and the power source reinvents electricity.”

    • Axil Axil

      What does “power source reinvents electricity.” mean is other words if you know.

      • tlp

        I think it means that electricity becomes almost free, available everywhere, in mobile applications also.

        • R V

          And completely green energy too.

      • clovis ray

        I feel Dr.R, might have the last word, on just how this is rolled out, without leonardo corp.’s cut, lol

  • georgehants

    So much optimism with reported discoveries and so much frustration that we seem to live in a distorted SIM (GreenWin) where they laugh that a society can be arranged so stupidly, that years can pass with no clear conformation of success.
    Will BLP be the first to achieve this, if so Mr. Rossi will be moved back on the Nobel list for future years to come (if genuine)

    • R V

      Mills is far more transparent. We know everything we need to reproduce his results for anyone interested. Rossi keeps secrets and his. Dealings are in legal tangles.

  • tlp

    We’ll see next week, but the closed system is not so “flashy” anymore. Though those calorimetric measurements should be interesting to see.

    • Gerard McEk

      Yes, I finally hope to hear what the COP is. Talking about power flashes (8kW in and 1MW out) is just a joke. If I unload a 1 joule capacitor in 1 micro second that I have also produced a megawatt. Or if you blow you fuse at home, by short-circuiting the socket than you may also have generated a megawatt in the fuse during a millisecond. Everyone can do that, just be careful.

      • Axil Axil

        If a one microsecond long spark can produce an 30 microsecond plasma ball, the COP will be 30. This is, if the spark and plasma are of equal power densities.

        • Gerard McEk

          Indeed, what is missing in the revelations of BP is the factor time.

      • R V

        I hope the demo is not short pulses as you think. But recent videos show long bursts in the megawatt range, say 30 seconds or so, with constant KW range input. Output power is optical, not electrical

        • Axil Axil

          Does an electrostatic charge build up on the SuCell? I predict that it will,

          • R V

            That’s the main reason Mills uses high current, to overcome electrostatic repulsion that self limits the hydrino reaction.

  • georgehants

    So much optimism with reported discoveries and so much frustration that we seem to live in a distorted SIM (GreenWin) where they laugh that a society can be arranged so stupidly, that years can pass with no clear conformation of success.
    Will BLP be the first to achieve this, if so Mr. Rossi will be moved backward on the Nobel list for future years to come (if genuine)

    • R V

      Mills is far more transparent. We know everything we need to reproduce his results for anyone interested. Rossi keeps secrets and his. Dealings are in legal tangles.

    • clovis ray

      well, i thought that, that darden, and his cohorts, had pulled the most stupid thing i ever seen, UNTIL, the UK made their move, wow, unbelievably stupid,

  • Jas

    It doesn’t matter at the moment who’s device is superior to the other. What matters is that we are able to replace dirty polluting coal power plants and the internal combustion engine. It will take decades to make the planet green. The more inventors and inventions the quicker we reach that goal.

    • tlp

      The first one in the market is going to get a clear advantage, but these initial implementations are so different that they could fill different market segments.

  • Gerard McEk

    So what is the ENERGY (Joules, KWh) produced and how much is consumed?
    What happens with the evaporated silver?

  • Gerard McEk

    So what is the ENERGY (Joules, KWh) produced and how much is consumed?
    What happens with the evaporated silver?

    • optiongeek

      See my posting below. In January Mills demoed generation of 527kW optical output from an input electrical power of 5kW. The silver is an a closed Argon environment. The silver is condensed back to liquid and recycled. Silver is just silver and it never degrades, it can cycle between liquid to gas and back for the age of the universe.

      • Axil Axil

        There could be a high degree of contamination due to transmutation of the silver and also from the erosion of the solid electrodes. I wonder if Mills has checked for contamination caused by transmutation, and if he finds any, will he tell the world about it, That revelation would put an end to his hydrino theory.

        The closer he gets to putting the SunCell in the hands of a third party tester, the faster that the hydrino theory will be disproved in favor of a nuclear based LENR theory.

        • optiongeek

          Yes, evidence of transmutation would demolish this theory.
          However, I think you are unaware the 1000-fold increase in power density was a direct consequence of GUTCP theory. And I can point to one salient fact that, I believe, is responsible: the radius of the hydrogen atom is exactly equivalent to the radii of outer orbitals of the oxygen atom. Why is this important? Because (as Mills has hinted to me and others), it is this relationship that allowed him to predict that a rare form of water, called Hydrogen Hydroxide, or H-O-H, is responsible for the increase in power density. HOH is simply water, but with the hydrogen bonds eliminated. And HOH forms because of the radius equivalence between hydrogen and oxygen. All of the recent advancements in the technology have been about how to create HOH. It turns out that introducing regular water to high current/low voltage is pretty much the key. Hence, the use of hydrated molten silver under an argon atmosphere.
          How do I know that H & O have the same radius? Because I used GUTCP to work out the relationships myself, using Excel. This is not something Mills has publicized. However, he did confirm my calculations were correct when I asked him and he even made cryptic remarks about it being responsible for HOH formation.
          You won’t find it mentioned anywhere in the scientific literature that H & O have the same radius. Some references indicate the radii are close, but no particular import has ever been ascribed to this. However, this is the key advancement of GUTCP to power generation and I think pretty solid evidence that Mills, or anyone, isn’t going to find transmutation in a SunCell.

          • R V

            The catalyst is simply the water molecule in isolation. I don’t think it has to do with size, just energy in units of 27.2ev.

          • optiongeek

            See, that’s where having a complete theory is handy. Mills tells us that he used GUTCP to understand that it’s the HOH form of water that can accept the right energy level (3 x 27.2ev = 81.6eV) where as plain vanilla water is off just ever so slightly and therefore it doesn’t. And it’s a good thing too. If regular water were a catalyst, then much more of the H in the universe would have transformed to hydrino instead of the 98% that has become dark matter.
            Again, his engineering & theoretical focus for the past four years has been to maximize HOH. And his results closely track his ability to produce HOH consistently. That should tell us something.

          • Axil Axil

            Ken Shoulders et al has experimented with sparks for years and has shown transmutation is produced by electric arching. It is a sure thing that transmutation will be found in the ash of the SunCell. It has been found already, experimentally,

            See

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298173327_Electro-nuclear_transmutation_low-energy_nuclear_reactions_in_an_electrolytic_cell

            also see

            http://www.nwtrb.gov/meetings/1997/june/vesperman.pdf

            also see

            http://www.academia.edu/7746113/Proton-21_Electrodynamics_Laboratory

          • optiongeek

            I honestly think you’re barking up the wrong tree here. The silver is simply there to provide high conductivity to get the amperage high enough. Other methods involving different metals, or even no metals of any kind have also demonstrated the hydrino reaction. Out of dozens of different experimental setups, the one commonality across all successful hydrino reactors is the presence of a catalyst that can accept n x 27.2eV. For instance, regular water doesn’t produce hydrinos while HOH does. The only difference is HOH is an acceptor of a proper energy level – 81.6eV (3 x 27.2eV)
            However, you seem pretty invested in finding transmutation. When you finally do get your hands on a setup, I hope you’ll bring an open mind to as you do your research.

          • R V

            Yet nobody believes him… Why is that?

          • Axil Axil
        • tlp

          Why do you think nuclear based theory is better than hydrino based?

          • Axil Axil

            Energy produced by electron orbits have a limit on the energy density and capacity that chemistry can deliver. If the SunCell reaction process is extracting energy from the nucleus, the power density can be many orders of magnitude greater and essentially limitless.

          • tlp

            Yes but there is plenty of hydrogen atoms available in form of water. There is COP limit of around 140, as water to hydrogen conversion needs some energy, but that is plentiful, easy to close the loop with that COP, so essentially COP is infinite, and the fuel is free (water).
            With nuclear transmutations fuel is not free.

          • Axil Axil

            When you get to know and understand LENR, you will come to love it, it’s beautiful.

          • tlp

            I think nobody knows and fully understands LENR yet. Rossi may be the closest. Mills may know but wont tell.

          • R V

            While there may be something to LENR, it’s not well understood or controlled. Mills reaction is at megawatt levels and is both understood and controlled.

          • Axil Axil

            But the SunCell does produce megawatt levels of power and in this fact lies the proof that the SunCell reaction is a LENR reaction.

          • tlp

            Of course there is not any fixed power limit, just “burn” more water to get more power.

          • Axil Axil

            have you seen how much water is required to be consumed to produce power levels in the megawatt level?

          • tlp

            About 200 times less than just burning that hydrogen in the water, if I remember right.

          • R V

            The typical reaction caused by the water molecule catalysts generates about 2.78 billion joules per liter of water used. So at 40% efficiency you need to consume 3.3 liters per hour to generate a constant one megawatt electrical output.

          • R V

            But you can’t tell us exactly what LENR reactions are can you!

          • Axil Axil

            Yes I can

          • R V

            Uh, well, what exactly is it then?

          • Axil Axil

            It is strong force screening that forces protons and neutrons to decay into mesons containing strange matter that is D mesons, to Kaons, to muons, then to electrons.

            The proof comes from the experiments of Leif Holmlid.

          • R V

            Well, that sounds scientific but you have no evidence that is what is happening in Mills’ reaction or experiments. Yet the UV and EUV spectra from Mills’ reactions are entirely consistent with Mills’ theory.

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            I’ll look tomorrow.

            I looked. I’m skeptical

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            There is no mechanism which uses the strong force in Mills’ reactions. The scales are way too large by many orders of magnitude. The temperatures are also to low by millions of degrees.

          • Axil Axil

            Regarding: “The temperatures are also to low by millions of degrees.”

            The unification of the strong, weak, and EMF forces permit one of these forces to effect another. The EMF force can effect the strong force. Monopole magnetic force lines can screen the strong force and permit the proton and neutron to decay, thereby producing strange matter and eventually muons though strange matter decay. Muons catalyze fusion at low temperatures.

            This is how Holmlid sees billions of muons in his experiments.

          • R V

            As an aside, if Dr. Holmlid can cheaply make billions of muons, he could make muon catalyzed fusion practical. That would be better than trying to otherwise convert the muon energy to heat.

            But the process to make his ultra dense deuterium must be energy intensive. 130kg/cm3? I’m skeptical.

          • Axil Axil

            There does seem to be an energy storage requirement involved but it is a startup cost only. After storage, the energy from a fluorescent room light is enough to generate muons.

          • R V

            The water ends up destroyed in that it’s first broken into hydrogen and oxygen, then the hydrogen atoms become hydrino atoms, bind and float to space. So the water is lost. Buy since the rate of water loss is low compared to the high energy released, the source is virtually infinite and thus can be considered renewable.

          • tlp

            Yes I agree. I tried to say essentially the same.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Water? free? lol Where have you been hiding? 🙂

          • tlp

            Every breath you take… its free like air. Air contains some water always.

          • R V

            Depending on the energy level, SunCells may be able to get the water supply directly from the air.

          • R V

            The you miss the entire point of the hydrino discovery. It’s not limited to the capacity standard chemistry can deliver because standard chemistry assumes the usual ground state as the lowest levels and doesn’t consider hydrino transitions. The electron ends up much closer to the nucleus than normally allowed. That is the source of the energy release.

          • Axil Axil

            The conservation of energy is a principle stating that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be altered from one form to another. The hydrino theory must be constrained by this law. The energy that comes from an electron’s orbit must have been deposited there in that orbit at an earlier time.

            All energy is produced by nuclear processes via E=MC2

            If hydrino based energy is coming from water, how did it get there in the first place? What nuclear based process or force produced it?

          • R V

            It is there. It’s simply the difference in potential energy between the normal ground state and the new, shrunken state where the electron is closer to the nucleus.

          • Axil Axil

            But how did the electron get closer to the nucleus in the first place?

          • R V

            Briefly, the interaction of the hydrogen atom and the catalyst absorbs some energy to the catalyst which then ionizes the catalyst. The electrons fall back releasing that energy as photons.
            Now, the hydrogen atom is unstable so it releases more energy until it reaches the first available stable state which is one of the hydrino states.

          • Axil Axil

            How can a chemical catalyst perform its energy transfer function in a plasma?

          • R V

            A plasma does not imply or mean that all the atoms are ionized. There are enough new hydrogen atoms and Catalyst atoms reacting per unit time to keep the reaction going.

          • Axil Axil

            So the hydrino reaction works when all the atoms at 6000C are ionized and the electrons are freely moving in the plasma cloud.

          • R V

            No, it works when the high current creates the conditions for the reaction. The byproducts and energy release create that high temperature plasma in which the light or heat can be harvested.

          • Axil Axil

            According to mills, the plasma explosion continues on for 20 times the length of time that the spark lasted. The reaction was self sustaining and increasing in the plasma state for a very long time. Mills says that this is a mystery and it cannot be answered through chemistry.

            Look up his quote.

          • R V

            I know that quote. It not inconsistent with what I said. That was a single shot. Yes, the conditions to continue the reaction exist after the initial current for a few milliseconds. Yes, some reactions will be going on in different regions of the plasma but primarily, the hot reaction zone is within the region where. The high current zaps the hydrated silver at the electrodes.

            The reaction makes the hot plasma not the other way around.

          • Axil Axil

            That means that the hydrino reaction exists and continues at 6000C

          • R V

            Again, the hot plasma is caused by the hydrino reaction but the hot plasma is not the main cause of the continuation of the reaction.

            If you turn off the current to the electrodes the reactions will die out very quickly. The SunCell is not self sustaining without that current input.

            Dr. Mills point was that the hydrino reaction is beyond standard know chemistry.

          • Axil Axil

            Here again you need to look up the Mills quote, The plasma lasts for 20 to 30 times longer that the spark.

            Here is the quote:

            BLP states:

            Proof of a new energy source is provided by two otherwise inexplicable observations: (i) The formation of a high-energy hydrogen plasma in the absence of any input electrical power, the nonexistence of any energy releasing chemistry with this fuel, and the further impossibility of known chemistry of this high energy. (ii) The emission of soft X-ray radiation at a voltage far less than that of the light energy produced and the inability of any known chemistry to release such high energy.

          • R V

            What the heck is your point? You seem fixated on one quote from one single shot experiment. The plasma can only sustain itself for milliseconds.

            The SunCell is NOT designed to be a self sustaining plasma reaction. It is designed with a constant energy input in the form of high current, low voltage electrical power.

          • Axil Axil

            http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/images/plasma_graph.jpg

            The point, the SunCell reaction can exist in a plasma which is incompatible with the hydrino theory based on catalytic action.

          • R V

            Nonsense. Mills does not contradict Mills. Mills experimented with self sustaining plasma reactions many years ago but moved on because the power density was very low. Sure, you can get some reactions in the plasma since it’s not all ionized and some favorable collisions an occur but the probabilities are much lower.

            That’s why he invented the recent method that uses high current zaps to increase the reaction rate because the plasma self limits the reaction rate.

            I figured you were groping for some way to discount the hydrino theory and twist Mills’ results into some kind of LENR.

          • Axil Axil

            I don;t need to twist anything. You just wait until I get a chunk of that spent silver.

          • R V

            And what will you find?

            If it were transmuted elements, which it won’t be, then you would be pissed since Mills made it work practically while the whole field of LENR scientists couldn’t. Are you jealous?

          • Axil Axil

            I would be happy that after 20 years Mills stumbled onto the proper cause of overunity power generation

          • R V

            I think you’ll be just as happy when science widely confirms the hydrino reaction.

          • Axil Axil

            The time is growing short for that theory. When science get a hold of that SunCell, the jig is up.

          • tlp

            Hydrino reactions are happening All the time in Sun corona,so no broblem with high temperatures.

          • Michael W Wolf

            lol, you give science too much credit Axil. They can’t even muster anomalous heat. And I believe Mills believes in his theory. You imply he knows he is wrong and is hiding it. You are better than that Axil.

          • R V

            No, rather LENR will become irrelevant regardless of whether there is anything there or not.

          • Michael W Wolf

            It wouldn’t be over unity. We just think it is, right? I mean energy cant’ be created or destroyed, just transferred and collected.

          • Michael W Wolf

            According to Mills, the silver doesn’t get spent.

          • tlp

            Yes, and that is one proof of hydrino reactions, no ordinary chemical reactions.

          • that’s confusing and hard to swallow but thanks for trying.

          • tlp

            When hydrogen atom is created in pair production, of course some energy is needed. Hydrogen, and also water just normally carry that energy. Only when hydrogen becomes hydrino in very special circumstances, energy is released (possible in several different levels, 137), and then it just stays that way. Hydrinos cannot anymore form water molecules with oxygen, they are dark matter, over 90% of hydrogen atoms are already hydrinos/dark matter, so it does not matter (No pun intended).

          • enantiomer2000

            So by your logic, a nuclear reaction would be many orders more powerful, therefore that is the correct theory? Mills has much evidence on the existence of the hydrino so I am leaning more towards his theory being correct.

        • R V

          There is no transmutation. The silver is only one of many many ways the reaction has been made to work. It’s not nuclear in any way, shape form.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Axil, isn’t hydrino theory in fact a nuclear reaction. I mean if the electron is pushed to a lower orbit, isn’t that a nuclear reaction?

          • R V

            No it’s a physical reaction that is similar to a chemical reaction yet the energy is intermediate on a log scale between standard chemical and nuclear energies. It probably needs its own catagory.

      • Andre Blum

        The question is for energy, not power.

      • R V

        That was for a single shot, the power was briefly 527kw but the energy was probably 500 joules.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yea, in a closed system Mills says the silver could last 20 years with about 200 dollars worth of silver. It is the PV’s that will limit how long the reactors can run without interruption. The guy from The PV company can’t say exactly how long the PV’s will last in the reactors because of the 2000 pulses per second with such intensity. He estimates between 6 months and 15 years I think. lol. But even at 6 months, the power produced will be very cheap.

  • US_Citizen71

    Interesting but still seems to be no closer to an actual product than they have ever been. Maybe once the unobtainium electrodes come back into stock at Mad Scientist supply store they will have something that can produce reliable continuous power.

    • R V

      Well, they have increased the reaction power from the milliwatt range to the megawatt range over the last few years. That’s a billion fold improvement so that shows it is closer than it was.

      • Mark Underwood

        Well, they weren’t *that* bad off. 🙂 Recall they were getting power on the order of watts from a beaker of potassium solution even in the early 90s before they were called BlacklightPower. Testing was done by Thermacore. Still, the power density was too low.

        • R V

          True but some of the battery tests done about 5 years or so were very low power.

  • US_Citizen71

    Interesting but they still seem to be no closer to an actual product than they have ever been. Maybe once the unobtainium electrodes come back into stock at Mad Scientist supply store they will have something that can produce reliable continuous power.

    • R V

      Well, they have increased the reaction power from the milliwatt range to the megawatt range over the last few years. That’s a billion fold improvement so that shows it is closer than it was.

      • Mark Underwood

        Well, they weren’t *that* bad off. 🙂 Recall they were getting power on the order of watts from a beaker of potassium solution even in the early 90s before they were called BlacklightPower. Testing was done by Thermacore. Still, the power density was too low.

        • R V

          True but some of the battery tests done about 5 years or so were very low power.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Hey I had unabtainium alternate currency for a time. 🙂

  • Mark Underwood

    As I recall from the video at Rowan University years ago, Mill’s Raney Nickel experiment yielded a short spike (mere seconds?) of intense heat, and it was over. That was with what seemed to be on the order of about a kilogram of nickel powder. In a nutshell it suffered from reaction quenching, low power density, and the difficulty that would be involved in recycling/reactivating the nickel.

    On the other hand, Rossi uses a mere gram or so of material that goes on producing heat for months, apparently. So it’s hard to see how Mill’s and Rossi’s phenomena are related.

    Looking forward to Mill’s video of demonstration day yesterday. What will be different I believe is that the silver won’t simply be vented out with everything else but will be captured and recycled back to the system. Also they are boasting a new ignition system that puts even thick tungsten electrodes in jeopardy, or so it seems 🙂

    • Axil Axil

      Mills needs to change his design to use liquid or plasma based electrodes. No solid can stand up to the heat and powder produced in the SunCell if what Mills is claiming is true.

      • tlp

        It is more of a question of keeping temperatures in control using proper cooling methods. Those initial test setups didn’t worry about cooling yet but getting max energy out. The closed system needs to keep that tungsten globe at about 3500K, so cooling is needed for that, and also similar temperature for those tungsten electrodes.
        In the final product the globe cooling is done by cooling the solar panels, so that about 40% of the energy is extracted as electricity from those PV panels and 60% as heat.

        But next week we’ll hear how this was handled yesterday.

        • Axil Axil

          A heat pipe based electrode might do the job using silver vapor as a coolant. But the power density might be too great with megawatts of power coming from the volume of a tea cup. This concentration of energy might erode the surface of the electrode as oftentimes happens in a tokamak.

          To solve this power concentration problem in a fusion reactor, the surface is covered with liquid lithium held in place on the surface with tungsten hairs.

          • R V

            That was for demo purposes. The commercial design is not restricted to allowing the energy density to get that high.

      • Axil Axil

        The electrode only lasts a minute or two, What gives?

        • R V

          That proves the power of the reaction and the large energy release.

          • Axil Axil

            No, I mean how can Mill have run the SunCell of months when the electrodes only lasts for minutes.

    • R V

      Mills has moved way, way, way beyond small scale experiments with Nickel.

      Who knows what Rossi really does. He makes such a mess of things he should simply be ignored.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I am forever skeptical of BLP. But, it was a pretty light show.

      • R V

        You’ll laugh when you drive around in a SunCell powered or charged car…

  • Axil Axil

    There could be a high degree of contamination due to transmutation of the silver and also from the erosion of the solid electrodes. I wonder if Mills has checked for contamination caused by transmutation, and if he finds any, will he tell the world about it, That revelation would put an end to his hydrino theory.

    The closer he gets to putting the SunCell in the hands of a third party tester, the faster that the hydrino theory will be disproving in favor of a nuclear based LENR theory.

    • tlp

      Why do you think nuclear based theory is better than hydrino based?

      • Axil Axil

        Energy produced by electron orbits have a limit on the energy density and capacity that chemistry can deliver. If the SunCell reaction process is extracting energy from the nucleus, the power density can be many orders of magnitude greater and essentially limitless.

        • tlp

          Yes but there is plenty of hydrogen atoms available in form of water. There is COP limit of around 140, as water to hydrogen conversion needs some energy, but that is plentiful, easy to close the loop with that COP, so essentially COP is infinite, and the fuel is free (water).
          With nuclear transmutations fuel is not free.

          • Axil Axil

            When you get to know and understand LENR, you will come to love it, it’s beautiful.

          • tlp

            I think nobody knows and fully understands LENR yet. Rossi may be the closest. Mills may know but wont tell.

          • R V

            While there may be something to LENR, it’s not well understood or controlled. Mills reaction is not at megawatt levels and is both understood and controlled.

          • Axil Axil

            But the SunCell does produce megawatt levels of power and in this fact lies the proof that the SunCell reaction is a LENR reaction.

          • tlp

            Of course there is not any fixed power limit, just “burn” more water to get more power.

          • Axil Axil

            have you seen how much water is required to be consumed to produce power levels in the megawatt level?

          • tlp

            About 200 times less than just burning that hydrogen in the water, if I remember right.

          • R V

            The typical reaction caused by the water molecule catalysts generates about 2.78 billion joules per liter of water used. So at 40% efficiency you need to consume 3.3 liters per hour to generate a constant one megawatt electrical output.

          • R V

            But you can’t tell us exactly what LENR reactions are can you!

          • Axil Axil

            Yes I can

          • R V

            Uh, well, what exactly is it then?

          • Axil Axil

            It is strong force screening that forces protons and neutrons to decay into mesons containing strange matter that is D mesons, to Kaons, to muons, then to electrons.

            The proof comes from the experiments of Leif Holmlid.

          • R V

            Well, that sounds scientific but you have no evidence that is what is happening in Mills’ reaction or experiments. Yet the UV and EUV spectra from Mills’ reactions are entirely consistent with Mills’ theory.

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            I’ll look tomorrow.

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            There is no mechanists use the strong force in Mills’ reactions. The scales are way too large by many orders of magnitude. The temperatures are also to low by millions of degrees.

          • Axil Axil

            Regarding: “The temperatures are also to low by millions of degrees.”

            The unification of the strong, weak, and EMF forces permit one force of these forces to effect another. The EMF force can effect the strong force. A monopole magnetic force can screen the strong force and permit the proton and neutron to decay, thereby producing strange matter and eventually muons though strange matter decay. Muons catalyze fusion at low temperatures.

            This is how Holmlid sees billions of muons in his experiments.

          • R V

            As an aside, if Dr. Holmlid can cheaply make billions of muons, he could make muon catalyzed fusion practical. That would be better than trying to otherwise convert the muon energy to heat.

          • Axil Axil

            There does seem to be an energy storage requirement involved but it is a startup cost only. After storage, the energy from a fluorescent room light is enough to generate muons.

          • psi2u2

            hahaha.

          • R V

            The water ends up destroyed in that it’s first broken into hydrogen and oxygen, then the hydrogen atoms become hydrino atoms, bind and float to space. So the water is lost. Buy since the rate of water loss is low compared to the high energy released, the source is virtually infinite and thus can be considered renewable.

          • tlp

            Yes I agree. I tried to say essentially the same.

        • R V

          The you miss the entire point of the hydrino discovery. It’s not limited to the capacity standard chemistry can deliver because standard chemistry assumes the usual ground state as the lowest levels and doesn’t consider hydrino transitions. The electron ends up much closer to the nucleus than normally allowed. That is the source of the energy release.

          • Axil Axil

            The conservation of energy is a principle stating that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be altered from one form to another. The hydrino theory must be constrained by this law. The energy that comes from an electron’s orbit must have been deposited there in that orbit at an earlier time.

            All energy is produced by nuclear processes via E=MC2

            If hydrino based energy is coming from water, how did it get there in the first place? What nuclear based process or force produced it?

          • R V

            It is there. It’s simply the difference in potential energy between the normal ground state and the new, shrunken state where the electron is closer to the nucleus.

          • Axil Axil

            But how did the electron get closer to the nucleus in the first place?

          • R V

            Briefly, the interaction of the hydrogen atom and the catalyst absorbs some energy to the catalyst which then ionizes the catalyst. The electrons fall back releasing that energy as photons.
            Now, the hydrogen atom is unstable so it releases more energy until it reaches the first available stable state which is one of the hydrino states.

          • Axil Axil

            How can a chemical catalyst perform its energy transfer function in a plasma?

          • R V

            A plasma does not imply or mean that all the atoms are ionized. There are enough new hydrogen atoms and Catalyst atoms reacting per unit time to keep the reaction going.

          • Axil Axil

            So the hydrino reaction works when all the atoms at 6000C are ionized and the electrons are freely moving in the plasma cloud.

          • R V

            No, it works when the high current creates the conditions for the reaction. The byproducts and energy release create that high temperature plasma in which the light or heat can be harvested.

          • Axil Axil

            According to mills, the plasma explosion continues on for 20 times the length of time that the spark lasted. The reaction was self sustaining and increasing in the plasma state for a very long time. Mills says that this is a mystery and it cannot be answered through chemistry.

            Look up his quote.

          • R V

            I know that quote. It not inconsistent with what I said. That was a single shot. Yes, the conditions to continue the reaction exist after the initial current for a few milliseconds. Yes, some reactions will be going on in different regions of the plasma but primarily, the hot reaction zone is within the region where. The high current zaps the hydrated silver at the electrodes.

            The reaction makes the hot plasma not the other way around.

          • Axil Axil

            That means that the hydrino reaction exists and continues at 6000C

          • R V

            Again, the hot plasma is caused by the hydrino reaction but the hot plasma is not the main cause of the continuation of the reaction.

            If you turn off the current to the electrodes the reactions will die out very quickly. The SunCell is not self sustaining without that current input.

            Dr. Mills point was that the hydrino reaction is beyond standard know chemistry.

          • Axil Axil

            Here again you need to look up the Mills quote, The plasma lasts for 20 to 30 times longer that the spark.

          • R V

            What the heck is your point? You seem fixated on one quote from on single shot experiment. The plasma can only sustain itself for milliseconds.

            The SunCell is NOT designed to be a self sustaining plasma reaction.

          • Axil Axil

            http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/images/plasma_graph.jpg

            The point, the SunCell reaction can exist in a plasma which is incompatible with the hydrino theory based on catalytic action.

          • R V

            Nonsense. Mills does not contradict Mills. Mills experimented with self sustaining plasma reactions many years ago but moved on because the power density was very low. Sure, you can get some reactions in the plasma since it’s not all ionized and some favorable collisions an occur but the probabilities are much lower.

            That’s why he invented the recent method that uses high current zaps to increase the reaction rate because the plasma self limits the reaction rate.

            I figured you were groping for some way to discount the hydrino theory and twist Mills’ results into some kind of LENR.

          • Axil Axil

            I don;t need to twist anything. You just wait until I get a chunk of that spent silver.

          • R V

            And what will you find?

            If it were transmuted elements, which it won’t be, then you would be pissed since Mills made it work practically while the whole field of LENR scientists couldn’t. Are you jealous?

          • Axil Axil

            I would be happy that after 20 years Mills stumbled onto the proper cause of overunity power generation

          • R V

            I think you’ll be just as happy when science widely confirms the hydrino reaction.

          • Axil Axil

            The time is growing short for that theory. When science get a hold of that SunCell, the jig is up.

          • tlp

            Hydrino reactions are happening All the time in Sun corona,so no broblem with high temperatures.

          • R V

            No, rather LENR will become irrelevant regardless of whether there is anything there or not.

          • Fedir Mykhaylov

            As long as it is light and grimy mirror. Before the industrial implementation of a walk to the moon

          • tlp

            Yes, and that is one proof of hydrino reactions, no ordinary chemical reactions.

          • tlp

            When hydrogen atom is created in pair production, of course some energy is needed. Hydrogen, and also water just normally carry that energy. Only when hydrogen becomes hydrino in very special circumstances, energy is released (possible in several different levels, 137), and then it just stays that way. Hydrinos cannot anymore become water molecules with oxygen, they are dark matter, over 90% of hydrogen atoms are already hydrinos/dark matter, so it does not matter (No pun intended).

    • R V

      There is no transmutation. The silver is only one of many many ways the reaction has beamed to work. It’s not nuclear in any way, shape form.

  • Axil Axil

    Mills needs to change his design to use liquid or plasma based electrodes. No solid can stand up to the heat and powder produced in the SunCell if what Mills is claiming is true.

    • tlp

      It is more of a question of keeping temperatures in control using proper cooling methods. Those initial test setups didn’t worry about cooling yet but getting max energy out. The closed system needs to keep that tungsten globe at about 3500K, so cooling is needed for that, and also similar temperature for those tungsten electrodes.
      In the final product the globe cooling is done by cooling the solar panels, so that about 40% of the energy is extracted as electricity from those PV panels and 60% as heat.

      But next week we’ll hear how this was handled yesterday.

      • Axil Axil

        A heat pipe based electrode might do the job using silver vapor as a coolant. But the power density might be too great with megawatts of power coming from the volume of a tea cup. This concentration of energy might erode the surface of the electrode as oftentimes happens in a tokamak.

        To solve this power concentration problem in a fusion reactor, the surface is covered with liquid lithium held in place on the surface with tungsten hairs.

        This method is like a lithium heat pipe turned inside out.

        • roseland67

          Can the electrode diameter be increased to reduce watt density to a point where it can survive?

        • R V

          That was for demo purposes. The commercial design is not restricted to allowing the energy density to get that high.

    • Michael W Wolf

      Evidently Mills thinks he can control it enough to keep temperatures below meltdown. He should market this and let the engineers find better ways after it is commercialized.

  • Axil Axil

    There is a lot of XUV produced. Mills needs to downshift that light through fluorescence to get that light into the range that can be converted to current using PV.

  • Robert Dorr

    Regarding Mills technology, I see a problem with continuous contamination of the power generating surfaces (electrodes primarily). All of the various metallic vapors being deposited everywhere would appear to be quite a limiting factor in an attempt to produce a continuous power source operating over an extended period of time. Has he indicated how he intends to get around this problem? And as Axil mentioned, has he indicated how he will handle the potential problem of the transmutation of the metals that he is using or does his hydrino theory preclude transmutation?

    • artefact

      The final product and the demo yesterday are in a closed reaction chamber so, that the silver does not get lost and gets reused all the time. Water (or Hydrogen) is inserted continuos into the chamber as the fuel.

      If his hydrino theory is what is at play then there will not be much contamination. If it is lenr then there will be some. We will hopefully see in the future..

      • R V

        Do you know that or are you making suppositions?

        • Axil Axil

          Get some of that spent silver from Mills. I will pay MFMP to analyze it for transmutation of elements.

          • R V

            Do your own experiments. Unlike Rossi, you can get all the data you need from Mills’ papers.

          • Axil Axil

            Ken Shoulders also has gone spark based experimentation for his entire life and has shown transmutation produced using spark so I know that Mills work will also show transmutation.

  • Andre Blum

    The question is for energy, not power.

  • R V

    That was for a single shot, the power was briefly 527kw but the energy was probably 500 joules.

  • Gerard McEk

    Only if both triggering (power input) and licht flash (power output) were happening during the same length of time, then this calculation is right. COP is about energy, not power.
    Assume power input was 8 kW during 1 second and the power output was 800 kW during 0.01 sec, then the COP is 1. If both are 1 sec, then COP=100. If the output is 800 kW during 5 sec, and the input 8 kW during 1 sec, then the COP is 500.

  • Bruce__H

    I look forward to the paper in Science or Nature.

    I assume this is a runaway reaction. It has been my contention for a while that the reality of lenr will first be established via such reactions. I don’t see blue light though. Or hear about ionizing radiation or neutrons.

    • R V

      It’s not a runaway self sustaining reaction. That’s a good thing because if it were, it would be feasible to build devices that release energy in bursts equating to a poor mans nuke.

      • Bruce__H

        I see what you mean. It is periodically excited.

        Too bad. A self-sustained runaway reaction that can be replicated by others is the easiest way to produce a convincing demonstration that lenr is real.

        • R V

          If the reaction were too easy to start, one might ignite the ocean or all the moisture in the atmosphere and then where would we be? Consider that there are likely a few hydrino reactions that occur during lightning.

  • Mark Underwood

    I heard that the silver vapour re-emits the XUV as blackbody. Didn’t know that about the Argon.

  • R V

    The catalyst is simply the water molecule in isolation. I don’t think it has to do with size, just energy in units of 27.2ev.

  • Samec

    Brilliant Light Sparks boys do not know, what CoP they have ??

    Desperate.

  • Mark Underwood

    “It’s the output of a spectrometer that can measure the light intensity at each frequency in terms of kW/Hz.”

    That graph confuses me, namely the labelling of the y axis. If it was simply W, watts, I would get it. But it is watts divided by the wavelength. (Not by the frequency as per your quote.)

    Is the y axis mislabelled ?

  • Mark Underwood

    I’ve been following BLP loosely since 1999 and I don’t recall such. If you happen across such a report I would be interested to see it thx

  • Anon2012_2014

    “Five independent validators using four cross confirming methodologies, two absolute spectroscopic and two thermal techniques using a commercial calorimeter and a heat exchanger on the SunCell, have established that the power demonstrated in this video is megawatt level with about 8 kW total input.”

    WATTS is subterfuge on short duration events lasting micro or nanoseconds. I want JOULES in and JOULES out.

    • tlp

      All power plants are producing WATTS, some all the time, like nuclear, some periodically, like solar or wind.
      This is more like nuclear, you can run it all the time, day and night, if you need full power all the time.

      • Anon2012_2014

        “All power plants are producing WATTS,”

        All power plants is off topic. This BLP demo is not a power plant, it is a lab experiment. I want a report that shows how many joules, or watt-seconds was produced for how many consumed. (And the video obviously shows non-continuous operation at approximately one shot per second. I would expect similar camera brightness for an 8 kW continuous input being put into a capacitive discharge or inductive discharge apparatus.)

        No one at BLP has yet published a report or announcement saying how much energy is produced and how much is consumed over the entire demo. Do you have one?

        • R V

          Not true by a mile. Earlier demos and papers of Mills show calorimetry experiments done live in which, for single shots, the input energy and output energy were measure.

          Energy balance has been publicly demonstrated. The later demos are so high power that Mills doesn’t bother. The power balance is obvious to anyone not trying to be a curmudgeon.

          • Anon2012_2014

            OK, so how much AVERAGE power are you getting out if you run continuously with 8 kW in? I’ve read every public paper on the BLP website through 3 months ago. Is there something else there? Or is it just more of these demos with pronouncements of “obvious megawatts”. If you told me that using nothing more than water 8 kW in gets 1 MW out, on average over a 24 hour period, and could point me to the conclusive evidence, I’d be a believer too. If Mills has that he is the new leader of energy. If he doesn’t, he’s just an experimenter.

          • tlp

            The demo was yesterday, video and press release are ready next week.
            R. Mills today:
            “We will post it [the video] in a week or so and do a press release. It is definitely a must see. The megawatt-scale power balance is demonstrated live by three methodologies. It is obvious that we are nearing commercialization and the power source reinvents electricity.”

          • “…we are nearing commercialization…”

            Mills’ ability to continually extract money from his investors by repeating this same line over and over, would put Anton Mesmer to shame.

          • R V

            I’m not getting anything. I’m not Mills.

            If you wish to be skeptical, go ahead. Be as skeptical as you wish.

          • Anon2012_2014

            I’m not skeptical or a believer. I’m a scientist who believes in scientific method. I just want evidence from BLP. I’ve asked multiple times to attend their demo days. BLP will publicly release the info when they want to.

          • R V

            Why then don’t you set up an experiment and see if you can reproduce the hydrino reaction yourself?

          • Anon2012_2014

            If Mills would publish his results together with every bit of secret sauce needed for replication, I would replicate it. He can publish it in a patent if he wants to protect it.

          • R V

            There is no secret sauce. The basic reaction experiments are described in detail. It’s the design details for the SunCell that are not public. But you don’t need that to confirm or refute the physics of the hydrino reaction itself.

          • Anon2012_2014

            I don’t care about the physics. That’s a model for smarter people than me. I think that the hydrino model has a 20% chance of being right. It is clever and interesting. Same with Widom-Larsen. Someone else will prove or disprove the models.

            I care about the thermodynamics, the excess heat. That makes it an economic breakthrough to be worth major time investment.

          • R V

            If you have a little money you should be able to rig up some device that proves to your own satisfaction that you can get big energy gains. Who knows, maybe you can trigger the reaction easier than Mills does. Some amateurs already have done so.

          • After 20 years or so of various blind alleys, Mills now seems to be homing in on the concepts of Stanley Meyers, who claimed to have invented a water powered engine based on a ‘resonant’ electric discharge used to ‘ignite’ an injected charge of water.

            Perhaps it would be a lot easier if he just dumped the LV arc and copied Meyer’s work:

            http://rexresearch.com/meyerhy/2067735.htm

            https://docs.google.com/viewer?docex=1&url=http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf

          • Mark Underwood

            Mills is not working blind, very far from it. True, he has struggled for years to find a way to produce hydrinos in sufficient quantity to generate useful power.

            The problem with Meyer’s work is twofold – practical and theoretical. Practically, no one has a working device based on Meyers work. Theoretically, there is no low energy waste product. If there is no low energy waste product, how can there be energy release? At least in principle Mills has the lower electron energy hydrino, and LENR has lower nucleon energy isotopes.

          • IF a low energy state of hydrogen exists then this might be the energy source for Meyer’s devices, just as easily as those of Mills. A small excess of oxygen wouldn’t have been detectable in Meyer’s dune buggy engine exhaust, and nor would hydrinos (especially as no-one would have been looking for either).

            In fact, whatever the source of excess power is in Mills’ gadget – assuming there really is any – this would probably be equally applicable to Meyer, as both systems depend on very similar basic concepts.

          • R V

            The point here is that the world is not going to credit Meyers for all the theoretical and practical work Mills has done. He may at most be a minor historical footnote in the history of alternative energy.

          • Mark Underwood

            Interesting thx
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
            gives a brief description of at least 8 inventors/companies including Genepax who claimed water as fuel. I’m dubious. Both of the inventors and, to a lesser extent, Wiki, ha!

          • R V

            Not to mention that Mayer is dead. RIP.

          • R V

            Meyers never proved his case or we would be driving with. His engines. While it’s possible Meyers engine worked, if I’d did, he had no clue as to why. So Meyers is irrelevant.

          • R V

            Closed operation means the reaction vessel is sealed, not that the device self powers or loops. The second quarter goals were a closed system with a continuos reaction. Integration of the PV cells is 4Q16.

          • Mark Underwood

            The average power out would be about 800 kW if it was fed with 8 kW in. However only about 20 percent of that 800kW would be converted to electricity I would guess.

            Here’s a quote from Mills from a youtube video 2 years ago, back when they were exploding individual shots of solid fuel:

            “The ignition thresholds are 5 V, 15,000 A. The corresponding 75 kW is the peak power to cause ignition. The energy to achieve ignition is about 5 J, and the light energy released is over 500 J per ignition. The 500 J is released in 0.5 ms corresponding to an optical power of 1 MW. With an ignition frequency of 2000 Hz, the optical power is at 100% duty cycle and the average ignition power is 5 J X 2000 Hz = 10 kW. Thus, the duty cycle of the 75 kW peak ignition power is 10/75 = 13%. The overall power balance is 10 kW input and 1 MW light output that can be converted conservatively to 400 kW electrical output.”

            When Mills says “1 MW light output that can be converted conservatively to 400 kW electrical output” I think he is being overly optimistic.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Good answer and better than the headline of 1 MW with no time or joules mentioned. 500 J/shot on the old thing. Needs only 5 J/shot. Video looks like 1 shot per second. So it looks to me to be 5 watts in, 500 watts out. If this can be validated, we have an economically viable device.

            I really don’t care about peak watts for validating an energy device without duration. I want wattsxseconds=joules. The headlines are at best misleading, but if the report from 4 investigators says something like what you quoted Mills, it is more interesting to me.

          • Axil Axil

            (23 1/1000) milliseconds (1000000) megawatts = 23000 watts per shot

            Please comfirm this method..

          • R V

            People try and read too much into these demos. They are not refined commercial devices and are not indicative of what they will eventually look like or perform.

          • R V

            Mills told us that the previous plasma videos, where the reaction intensity blooms very high for about 30 seconds at a time, were around one megawatt power levels output for a few KW input at the time in a steady state for those 30 seconds.

    • Job001

      Any frequency can be used so things don’t melt, so, 5Kw in and 527Kw out equates to ;
      1J in and 105J out, Given the amount of time required to input 1J.

      • Gerard McEk

        That is only true if the time of input power and output power are the same!

        • Job001

          Nope, note units are Kw and J, time is not part of the ratio. The amount of time required is to get one J input, thereby the output is 105 J for that same proportionate cycle. The output cycle is about 20x longer than the input cycle. Technicality only, only a purposeful skeptic would not do a full cycle or multiples/fractions thereof to create purposeful or unnecessary misinformation.

  • Anon2012_2014

    “Five independent validators using four cross confirming methodologies, two absolute spectroscopic and two thermal techniques using a commercial calorimeter and a heat exchanger on the SunCell, have established that the power demonstrated in this video is megawatt level with about 8 kW total input.”

    WATTS is subterfuge on short duration events lasting micro or nanoseconds. I want JOULES in and JOULES out.

    • optiongeek

      He did give answers in joules before – 5J input for about 600+J output for each of the “pops” in earlier generations. No idea about the current generation.

      • Gerard McEk

        The annoying thing is that he usually doesn’t, but always powers. He would be more trustworthy if he would only publish energies.

    • tlp

      All power plants are producing WATTS, some all the time, like nuclear, some periodically, like solar or wind.
      This is more like nuclear, you can run it all the time, day and night, if you need full power all the time.

      • Anon2012_2014

        “All power plants are producing WATTS,”

        All power plants is off topic. This BLP demo is not a power plant, it is a lab experiment. I want a report that shows how many joules, or watt-seconds was produced for how many consumed. (And the video obviously shows non-continuous operation at approximately one shot per second. I would expect similar camera brightness for an 8 kW continuous input being put into a capacitive discharge or inductive discharge apparatus.)

        No one at BLP has yet published a report or announcement saying how much energy is produced and how much is consumed over the entire demo. Do you have one?

        • R V

          Not true by a mile. Earlier demos and papers of Mills show calorimetry experiments done live in which, for single shots, the input energy and output energy were measure.

          Energy balance has been publicly demonstrated. The later demos are so high power that Mills doesn’t bother. The power balance is obvious to anyone not trying to be a curmudgeon.

          • Anon2012_2014

            OK, so how much AVERAGE power are you getting out if you run continuously with 8 kW in? I’ve read every public paper on the BLP website through 3 months ago. Is there something else there? Or is it just more of these demos with pronouncements of “obvious megawatts”. If you told me that using nothing more than water 8 kW in gets 1 MW out, on average over a 24 hour period, and could point me to the conclusive evidence, I’d be a believer too. If Mills has that he is the new leader of energy. If he doesn’t, he’s just an experimenter.

          • tlp

            The demo was yesterday, video and press release are ready next week.
            R. Mills today:
            “We will post it [the video] in a week or so and do a press release. It is definitely a must see. The megawatt-scale power balance is demonstrated live by three methodologies. It is obvious that we are nearing commercialization and the power source reinvents electricity.”

          • “…we are nearing commercialization…”

            Mills’ ability to continually extract money from his investors by repeating this same line over and over, would put Anton Mesmer to shame.

          • R V

            I’m not getting anything. I’m not Mills.

            If you wish to be skeptical, go ahead. Be as skeptical as you wish.

          • Anon2012_2014

            I’m not skeptical or a believer. I’m a scientist who believes in scientific method. I just want evidence from BLP. I’ve asked multiple times to attend their demo days. BLP will publicly release the info when they want to.

          • R V

            Why then don’t you set up an experiment and see if you can reproduce the hydrino reaction yourself?

          • Anon2012_2014

            If Mills would publish his results together with every bit of secret sauce needed for replication, I would replicate it. He can publish it in a patent if he wants to protect it.

          • R V

            There is no secret sauce. The basic reaction experiments are described in detail. It’s the design details for the SunCell that are not public. But you don’t need that to confirm or refute the physics of the hydrino reaction itself.

          • Anon2012_2014

            I don’t care about the physics. That’s a model for smarter people than me. I think that the hydrino model has a 20% chance of being right. It is clever and interesting. Same with Widom-Larsen. Someone else will prove or disprove the models.

            I care about the thermodynamics, the excess heat. That makes it an economic breakthrough to be worth major time investment.

          • R V

            If you have a little money you should be able to rig up some device that proves to your own satisfaction that you can get big energy gains. Who knows, maybe you can trigger the reaction easier than Mills does. Some amateurs already have replicated it.

          • After 20 years or so of various blind alleys, Mills now seems to be homing in on the concepts of Stanley Meyers, who claimed to have invented a water powered engine based on a ‘resonant’ electric discharge used to ‘ignite’ an injected charge of water.

            Perhaps it would be a lot easier if he just dumped the LV arc and copied Meyer’s work:

            http://rexresearch.com/meyerhy/2067735.htm

            https://docs.google.com/viewer?docex=1&url=http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf

          • Mark Underwood

            Mills is not working blind, very far from it. True, he has struggled for years to find a way to produce hydrinos in sufficient quantity to generate useful power.

            The problem with Meyer’s work is twofold – practical and theoretical. Practically, no one has a working device based on Meyers work. Theoretically, there is no low energy waste product. If there is no low energy waste product, how can there be energy release? At least in principle Mills has the lower electron energy hydrino, and LENR has lower nucleon energy isotopes.

          • IF a low energy state of hydrogen exists then this might be the energy source for Meyer’s devices, just as easily as those of Mills. A small excess of oxygen wouldn’t have been detectable in Meyer’s dune buggy engine exhaust, and nor would hydrinos (especially as no-one would have been looking for either).

            In fact, whatever the source of excess power is in Mills’ gadget – assuming there really is any – this would probably be equally applicable to Meyer, as both systems depend on very similar basic concepts.

            Regarding the lack of ‘replication’ of Meyer’s engine, there have been several claims (‘Genepax’ car, water powered motorcycle in India, etc.) but these have tended to disappear very quickly for reasons not connected with unsuccessful demos. If the technology is real (I don’t argue either way for that) then it has been successfully contained so far. If Mills has a workable system, I hope he is more successful.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKuDLtHJ-bo

          • R V

            The point here is that the world is not going to credit Meyers for all the theoretical and practical work Mills has done. He may at most be a minor historical footnote in the history of alternative energy.

          • Mark Underwood

            Interesting thx
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
            gives a brief description of at least 8 inventors/companies including Genepax who claimed water as fuel. I’m dubious. Both of the inventors and, to a lesser extent, Wiki, ha!

          • R V

            Not to mention that Mayer is dead. RIP.

          • R V

            Meyers never proved his case or we would be driving with his engines. While it’s possible Meyers engine worked, if I’d did, he had no clue as to why. So Meyers is irrelevant.

          • enantiomer2000

            Mills is looking to commercialize his implementation next year. How long has this Meyer taken to get his products on the market?

          • Michael W Wolf

            Well the problem with this tech is getting stable useful energy from it. I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend the complexity to engineer a unit to work practically. Really we are still at the stage of just showing an anomalous reaction at much greater scales, but still not able to steadily produce electricity for long enough periods of time to be viable. The whole damn scientific world should have been working on it, and we’d have that tech already.

            But the scientific gate keepers have made sure that didn’t happen. so we are left with but a few special people doing what the whole population should have already done. That is why we don’t have it, not because they are frauds, but they are just a few doing the work an army of scientists would have trouble doing. We should honor the likes of Mills, not constantly imply he is full of crap. Sure his theory may not pan out, but he is showing law breaking power.

          • Roger Roger

            “I’m a scientist who believes in scientific method”
            “I don’t care about the physics. That’s a model for smarter people than me.”

            lol

          • psi2u2

            hahaha.

          • Bruce__H

            I think skepticism is best practice here. What is the downside of being skeptical?

          • Potentially, of mistaking imperfect experimental design for absence of a real effect due to confirmation bias or other faulty information processing. Cognitive dissonance is avoided but the cost is opportunities lost, as in the LENR story.

          • Bruce__H

            You are assuming that one cannot be skeptical and at the same time push forward with hope and enthusiasm. This is a false assumption.

          • Bruce__H

            On thinking about what you say one thing puzzles me. Isn’t skepticism regarded as the usual antidote to confirmation bias?

          • Mark Underwood

            It depends. There is a skepticism of the status quo, and a skepticism of that which challenges the status quo. Perhaps possessing a bit of both is best and leads to the most progress.

          • Bruce__H

            I agree completely.

          • R V

            I’m not saying people shouldn’t be skeptical but when no one will even bother to confirm or refute a new discovery because they cannot get past initial skepticism then the scientific process has broken down. The hydrino could have been confirmed or refuted a couple of decades ago yet it wasn’t primarily because no one is interested. That’s because they are too skeptical and for wrong reasons.

            So too much skepticism slows science down.

          • Michael W Wolf

            He is alright, just impatient I think. We want commercial power and we want it now! 🙂 I kind of feel that way too, but Mills is doing it right. But another point that has been made is to get out what you got now. We can scale it up later. Like Rossi keeps making it better than the last and when he is ready to go, he finds a way to get more out of it and moves to perfect it. You can’t keep advancing the technology without bringing it to market. you could do that for a thousand years and never be ready for a product to hit the shelves.

          • Mark Underwood

            The average power out would be about 800 kW if it was fed with 8 kW in. However only about 20 percent of that 800kW would be converted to electricity I would guess.

            Here’s a quote from Mills from a youtube video 2 years ago, back when they were exploding individual shots of solid fuel:

            “The ignition thresholds are 5 V, 15,000 A. The corresponding 75 kW is the peak power to cause ignition. The energy to achieve ignition is about 5 J, and the light energy released is over 500 J per ignition. The 500 J is released in 0.5 ms corresponding to an optical power of 1 MW. With an ignition frequency of 2000 Hz, the optical power is at 100% duty cycle and the average ignition power is 5 J X 2000 Hz = 10 kW. Thus, the duty cycle of the 75 kW peak ignition power is 10/75 = 13%. The overall power balance is 10 kW input and 1 MW light output that can be converted conservatively to 400 kW electrical output.”

            When Mills says “1 MW light output that can be converted conservatively to 400 kW electrical output” I think he is being overly optimistic.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Good answer and better than the headline of 1 MW with no time or joules mentioned. 500 J/shot on the old thing. Needs only 5 J/shot. Video looks like 1 shot per second. So it looks to me to be 5 watts in, 500 watts out. If this can be validated, we have an economically viable device.

            I really don’t care about peak watts for validating an energy device without duration. I want wattsxseconds=joules. The headlines are at best misleading, but if the report from 4 investigators says something like what you quoted Mills, it is more interesting to me.

          • Axil Axil

            (23 1/1000) milliseconds (1000000) megawatts = 23000 watts per shot

            Please comfirm this method..

          • R V

            People try and read too much into these demos. They are not refined commercial devices and are not indicative of what they will eventually look like or perform.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I thing the PV company said they have a 40% efficiency. That would confirm what Mills said. 400 kw electric out.

          • Mark Underwood

            Yes the concentrated PV can be up to 40 percent efficient I’ve heard. But that 40 percent pertains to light that it *can* convert into electricity, namely light in the visible spectrum. I suspect that at least half of the light energy coming from blackbody radiation even at that high temperature is in the infrared, which cannot be converted by a CPV. That’s why I cut it down to 20 percent. Some added engineering to put that waste heat to use would be welcome and is no doubt going to be a part of some future applications of the SunCell.

          • tlp

            Off spectrum radiation is already counted in that 40% figure, as normal sunlight is not any better spectrum wise.

          • Mark Underwood

            Hmmm, from Wiki,

            “In terms of energy, sunlight at Earth’s surface is around 52 to 55 percent infrared (above 700 nm), 42 to 43 percent visible (400 to 700 nm), and 3 to 5 percent ultraviolet (below 400 nm).”

            Silicon based solar cells can capture and convert light with wavelengths in the 400 to 1000 nm range, meaning they can capture and convert some of the infrared to electricity. That still leaves a lot of infrared energy. So, I still think the 40 percent refers to the efficiency of light capture that it is designed to capture/convert (in the 400 to 1000 nm range), rather than all the sun’s EM energy in it’s entirety. But what do I know.

            Some more info for anyone interested: http://solarcellcentral.com/limits_page.html

          • R V

            The EUV and UV output is converted to optical and matches the solar spectrum fairly well but it can be tuned. The PV can convert that at about 30% now and ~40% later.

          • R V

            I don’t think so. When the solar intensity is 1000W/m2 a 20% panel will yield about 200W not 100W. The CPV cells Mills is using are rated the same way. Consider that the actual efficiency of wavelengths around the band gap is near 100%. If the light were monochromatic, the cells would be designed to match them and the conversion would be near perfect.

            In the future Mills may be able to tune the EUV and UV spectrums and match them to UV cells at very high efficiency. There is a lot of promise to this approach.

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            This link just points back here. It doesn’t help.

          • Axil Axil

            It points to a post that I wrote called

            LENR Energy Harvesting (Axil Axil)

            That link follows true for me.

          • Mark Underwood

            I’ve looked but oddly I can’t find a definitive answer on this either way.

            But as you share about band gaps, unless the photon energy is exactly that of the band gap, energy is lost. (If it is less, all is lost; if it is more, the difference in energy is lost afaik). Of course one can have multiple band gaps, but there will still be holes where the energy match is not exact, and so there will be significant loss even in the broad range that the CPV covers. That’s why I have been thinking that the efficiency rating is only for the broad range of the spectrum that the cell can cover.

            For sure if Mills can directly capture the EUV and UV with special cells that would be more efficient. But since silver is still needed for conduction, one would think that there would be some silver vapour creation which would convert at least some of that UV to blackbody, and efficiency would be lost. But who knows what is around the corner at Brilliant Light Power.

          • R V

            In that case, there will be far less silver introduced or a way around silver will be devised.

            Efficiencies for solar panels are quoted as compared to a standard solar spectrum that models the sun’s spectrum under different conditions. One example is AM-1.5G which stands for air mass 1.5 global. In this case, the number is the assumed path length as compared to the shortest possible path, straight overhead and ‘global’ means over all U.S. States. These standards include the IR tail.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Wow, suncell can make the PV’s more efficient.

          • R V

            Yes, the SunCell spectrum does not have missing parts like the solar spectrum does going through the atmosphere.

          • R V

            I think the blackbody spectrum for 5000-6000K looks very much like the sun because it is independent of the material.

          • Michael W Wolf

            Hmm, thanks for the info. You are right. That is very limiting, I wonder if they will be able to layer the pv’s to increase the output? The way I was thinking is when Mills changed the spectrum, the black-body radiation went away or changed to a more usable spectrum. hehe. Mills doesn’t seem worried about the inefficiency of the PV’s, and says just dump the waste heat. But yea, using that heat will be one of the advancements to come out of this tech.

          • Michael W Wolf

            It is still an open system. They are limited by that. Once they get a closed system in place, it will be 2000 of those bursts a second, being absorbed by PV’s. What you see here is incredible and you should be in awe. But your hope for market electricity is putting the cart before the horse. Have patience, what you want will come.

          • R V

            Mills told us that the previous plasma videos, where the reaction intensity blooms very high for about 30 seconds at a time, were around one megawatt power levels output for a few KW input at the time in a steady state for those 30 seconds.

            Frankly, the January videos are more impressive that the ones from June but I think what he was claiming was that the control was much better. It may be in the sense of being instant on/off but it wasn’t uniform and it melts the apparatus.

    • Job001

      Any frequency can be used so things don’t melt, so, 5Kw in and 527Kw out equates to ;
      1J in and 105J out, Given the amount of time required to input 1J.

      RE:See option geek graph about 9 hr ago, most of the energy is about 10 times more energetic than visible, data from graph integration.

      • Gerard McEk

        That is only true if the time of input power and output power are the same!

        • Job001

          Nope, note units are Kw and J, time is not part of the ratio. The amount of time required is to get one J input, thereby the output is 105 J for that same proportionate cycle. The output cycle is about 20x longer than the input cycle. Technicality only, only a purposeful skeptic would not do a full cycle or multiples/fractions thereof to create purposeful or unnecessary misinformation.

  • R V

    That’s also the function of the silver aside from being a low resistivity host for the hydrogen and water.

  • Job001

    Nice graph. This also explains a lot, the wave lengths represent much more energy than is in the visible range of 400 to 700nm. As can be read the watts at the visible range are about maybe 20w/nm while the peaks are mostly above 2000w/nm. An accurate result comes from computer integration of the peaks.

  • R V

    It’s not a runaway self sustaining reaction. That’s a good thing because if it were, it would be feasible to build devices that release energy in bursts equating to a poor mans nuke.

  • Svein

    I am missing some information. BLP is doing something with H2O so it become HOH. What
    is the difference between H2O and HOH and how do you make HOH?

    • TPaign

      Just watch out for dihydrogen oxide, it can kill you

    • Anon2012_2014

      I don’t think even Mills knows what his machine does on the microscopic scale. His models are elegant but not proven.

      For us, we can view it at the macro (thermodynamic) scale to see what energy it produces. He needs to patent and publish so it can be replicated. Otherwise to me it is just more secret demos with selected audience members.

      • R V

        He has.

    • Ted-Z

      I think that you have to grab one H from the water molecule (on the H2 side) and put it straight on the opposite side of oxygen. Seriously, water has many unanticipated properties, perhaps even a sort of “water memory” or some (so far not found) long-lasting quantum states.

      • R V

        All water molecules are H-O-H where there is a bonding angle between the hydrogen and oxygen.

    • R V

      HOH is simply what they call an isolated water molecule without hydrogen bonds to other water molecules as in liquid water.

      • Axil Axil

        HOH may be a crystallized form of water, where there is a positive core and a diffuse electron cloud that metalizes the water molecule. Mark LeClair has discovered this crystal and named it “water crystal” it is a string like hexagonal crystal with many stacked planes.

        Rydberg matter is the prototype structure for this metalized hydride.

        • R V

          Not crystallized. Isolated molecules without hydrogen bonds to other water molecules.

  • Svein

    I am missing some information. BLP is doing something with H2O so it become HOH. What
    is the difference between H2O and HOH and how do you make HOH?

    • optiongeek

      This is the right question. HOH is water without the hydrogen bonds. Hydrogen bonds are loose connections between different water molecules and are responsible for the crystal molecular arrangement in ice.

      Mills discovered that you can make HOH from high current/low voltage. He has published some information, but he’s been less descriptive than in other parts of his theory.

      The efficiency of his design has closely tracked his ability to generate and control HOH. It accepts energy in units of 81.6eV (3 x 27.2eV), which according to his theory makes it a good hydrino catalyst.

    • TPaign

      Just watch out for dihydrogen oxide, it can kill you

      • enantiomer2000

        It has almost killed me on several occasions.

    • Anon2012_2014

      I don’t think even Mills knows what his machine does on the microscopic scale. His models are elegant but not proven.

      For us, we can view it at the macro (thermodynamic) scale to see what energy it produces. He needs to patent and publish so it can be replicated. Otherwise to me it is just more secret demos with selected audience members.

      • optiongeek

        Mills has dozens of results showing that hydrino catalyst agents must accept energy transfers of n x 27.2eV. H2O doesn’t have this property and doesn’t enable hydrino reactions. However, HOH does – it accepts 81.6eV (3 x 27.2eV). And in fact HOH is such a good catalyst that the reaction rate is literally that of a high explosive. Mills used his theory to discover this property of HOH. The better he gets at generating and controlling HOH, the more efficient the reaction. I think that’s pretty good evidence that Mills knows exactly what he’s doing.

      • R V

        He has.

    • Ted-Z

      I think that you have to grab one H from the water molecule (on the H2 side) and put it straight on the opposite side of oxygen. Seriously, water has many unanticipated properties, perhaps even a sort of “water memory” or some (so far not found) long-lasting quantum states.

      • R V

        All water molecules are H-O-H where there is a bonding angle between the hydrogen and oxygen.

    • R V

      HOH is simply what they call an isolated water molecule without hydrogen bonds to other water molecules as in liquid water.

      • Axil Axil

        HOH may be a crystallized form of water, where there is a positive core and a diffuse electron cloud that metalizes the water molecule. Mark LeClair has discovered this crystal and named it “water crystal” it is a string like hexagonal crystal with many stacked planes.

        Rydberg matter is the prototype structure for this metalized hydride.

        • R V

          Not crystallized. Isolated molecules without hydrogen bonds to other water molecules.

  • Potentially, of mistaking imperfect experimental design for absence of a real effect due to confirmation bias or other faulty information processing. Cognitive dissonance is avoided but the cost is opportunities lost, as in the LENR story.

  • tlp

    Every breath you take… its free like air. Air contains some water always.

  • Mark Underwood

    Yes the concentrated PV can be up to 40 percent efficient I’ve heard. But that 40 percent pertains to light that it *can* convert into electricity, namely light in the visible spectrum. I suspect that at least half of the light energy coming from blackbody radiation even at that high temperature is in the infrared, which cannot be converted by a CPV. That’s why I cut it down to 20 percent. Some added engineering to put that waste heat to use would be welcome and is no doubt going to be a part of some future applications of the SunCell.

    • tlp

      Off spectrum radiation is already counted in that 40% figure, as normal sunlight is not any better spectrum wise.

      • Mark Underwood

        Hmmm, from Wiki,

        “In terms of energy, sunlight at Earth’s surface is around 52 to 55 percent infrared (above 700 nm), 42 to 43 percent visible (400 to 700 nm), and 3 to 5 percent ultraviolet (below 400 nm).”

        Silicon based solar cells can capture and convert light with wavelengths in the 400 to 1000 nm range, meaning they can capture and convert some of the infrared to electricity. That still leaves a lot of infrared energy. So, I still think the 40 percent refers to the efficiency of light capture that it is designed to capture/convert (in the 400 to 1000 nm range), rather than all the sun’s EM energy in it’s entirety. But what do I know.

        Some more info for anyone interested: http://solarcellcentral.com/limits_page.html

        • R V

          The EUV and UV output is converted to optical and matches the solar spectrum fairly well but it can be tuned. The PV can convert that at about 30% now and ~40% later.

        • R V

          I don’t think so. When the solar intensity is 1000W/m2 a 20% panel will yield about 200W not 100W. The CPV cells Mills is using are rated the same way. Consider that the actual efficiency of wavelengths around the band gap is near 100%. If the light were monochromatic, the cells would be designed to match them and the conversion would be near perfect.

          In the future Mills may be able to tune the EUV and UV spectrums and match them to UV cells at very high efficiency. There is a lot of promise to this approach.

          • Axil Axil
          • R V

            This link just points back here. It doesn’t help.

          • Axil Axil

            It points to a post that I wrote called

            LENR Energy Harvesting (Axil Axil)

            That link follows true for me.

          • R V

            Yes, the SunCell spectrum does not have missing parts like the solar spectrum does going through the atmosphere.

          • Mark Underwood

            I’ve looked but oddly I can’t find a definitive answer on this either way.

            But as you share about band gaps, unless the photon energy is exactly that of the band gap, energy is lost. (If it is less, all is lost; if it is more, the difference in energy is lost afaik). Of course one can have multiple band gaps, but there will still be holes where the energy match is not exact, and so there will be significant loss even in the broad range that the CPV covers. That’s why I have been thinking that the efficiency rating is only for the broad range of the spectrum that the cell can cover.

            For sure if Mills can directly capture the EUV and UV with special cells that would be more efficient. But since silver is still needed for conduction, one would think that there would be some silver vapour creation which would convert at least some of that UV to blackbody, and efficiency would be lost. But who knows what is around the corner at Brilliant Light Power.

          • R V

            In that case, there will be far less silver introduced or a way around silver will be devised.

    • R V

      I think the blackbody spectrum for 5000-6000K looks very much like the sun because it is independent of the material.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    This silver firework looks expensive for industrial applications

    • tlp

      There is a cost analysis of the prototype 250 kW electric generator in this presentation, page 9:
      http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/BrLP-Business-Presentation-060916.pdf

      about 30k$, but this is first of a kind prototype. Silver is not mentioned separately, because it is so small fraction, about 200$.

      • LuFong

        Thanks for the slides:

        • Field test in 1H 2017
        • Commercial launch in 2H 2017

        What are the odds makers saying?

        • R V

          Don’t be too surprised if things take longer. Mills always designs, touts, then tests. Usually there are complications which he solves but touts the new solution as obvious before fully testing it. I fully support Mills and his team but he’s always refining and changing things even when they work. He’s a perfectionist which has generated a lot if criticism even from supporters. These characteristics add a lot of time to the process.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    This silver firework looks expensive for industrial applications

    • optiongeek

      Silver is simply a catalyst – it will last essentially forever without degrading. Mills projects all in fixed costs of about $100/kW for generating capacity. That’s cheap.

      • R V

        Actually, silver is not technically the catalyst. It is a matrix to hold the water molecules and allow high current to create the conditions for water to also split and react hydrogen and the HOH catalysts. At least that’s my understanding.

    • tlp

      There is a cost analysis of the prototype 250 kW electric generator in this presentation, page 9:
      http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/BrLP-Business-Presentation-060916.pdf

      about 30k$, but this is first of a kind prototype. Silver is not mentioned separately, because it is so small fraction, about 200$.

  • Mark Underwood

    It depends. There is a skepticism of the status quo, and a skepticism of that which challenges the status quo. Perhaps possessing a bit of both is best and leads to the most progress.

  • Mark Underwood

    Well I can’t find it. The particular type of CIHT technology that could apparently work for a fairly long duration in the tens of watts range looked nothing like the E-cat. It was an electrochemical cell. (See attached pic from around 2012)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d589a198d399df42b2dea5089c0c6de59e44ea6c553f4503af17cd4526ab4512.jpg

    Meanwhile, the type that did look like the eCat, with the Nickel powder inside a cylinder as tested at Rowan University, was very short lived, giving off a burst of heat, then it was finished.

  • Private Citizen

    Will it self-loop, or is such an insane suggestion “too dangerous” to even contemplate?

    • R V

      This demo is not going to show the device ‘self-loop’ but it supposedly shows a large energy gain by three live measurements. The reason it is not self looping is because the PV cells have not yet been integrated into the design. It will show a DC current input and a larger output of optical energy.

    • tlp

      Yes it will, but that is scheduled by end of this year.
      I would like to remaind all, that the great demo was 28th, two days ago, but the video from that event is not published yet but should be some time next week. Typically those videos from BLP demo events are long, 1-2 hours, so everything is shown, and lots of information in those.

      • Axil Axil

        Please do your best to provide any new info that may appear.

        • tlp

          Sure, look at those latest messages.

  • Private Citizen

    Will it self-loop, or is such an insane suggestion “too dangerous” to even contemplate?

    • R V

      This demo is not going to show the device ‘self-loop’ but it supposedly shows a large energy gain by three live measurements. The reason it is not self looping is because the PV cells have not yet been integrated into the design. It will show a DC current input and a larger output of optical energy.

    • enantiomer2000

      Randy Mills said this a few days ago “We have met our 2Q goal of a closed system. Other milestones on our timeline are tracking well”.

      So according to him they are now able to power the suncell with just the capacitor bank. This step is really the biggest hurdle that all of these new-fangled energy companies have failed to do until now. Once a device powers itself, and in this case generates 10kW+ of constant electricity, there can be little doubt about its reality and its imminent commercial success. 2017 will be a VERY interesting year.

      • R V

        Closed operation means the reaction vessel is sealed, not that the device self powers or loops. The second quarter goals were a closed system with a continuos reaction. Integration of the PV cells is 4Q16.

        • enantiomer2000

          I see.

          • R V

            But, even though I am a huge Mills supporter, his statements must be parsed very carefully. His idea of a continuously operating closed system and my idea may be different. While I find Mills statement technically true, sometimes the actuality seems a bit less than I envisioned.

            I have no doubts about the power of the reaction but the engineering into a practical device I think is more difficult than he claims sometimes.

            Apparently, the closed system was steel not tungsten so it melted. I wouldn’t have claimed I had a closed system without the tungsten because that is central to the stated design.

      • R V

        Also, the energy balance of Mills’ devices and tests are so large he is not concerned about closing the loop at this point in time.

    • tlp

      Yes it will, but that is scheduled by end of this year.
      I would like to remind all, that the great demo was 28th, two days ago, but the video from that event is not published yet but should be some time next week. Typically those videos from BLP demo events are long, 1-2 hours, so everything is shown, and lots of information in those.

      • Axil Axil

        Please do your best to provide any new info that may appear.

        • tlp

          Sure, look at those latest messages.

  • Gerard McEk

    The annoying thing is that he usually doesn’t, but always powers. He would be more trustworthy if he would only publish energies.

  • R V

    Actually, silver is not technically the catalyst. It is a matrix to hold the water molecules and allow high current to create the conditions for water to also split and react hydrogen and the HOH catalysts. At least that’s my understanding.

  • R V

    If the reaction were too easy to start, one might ignite the ocean or all the moisture in the atmosphere and then where would we be?

  • R V

    No it’s a physical reaction that is similar to a chemical reaction yet the energy is intermediate on a log scale between standard chemical and nuclear energies. It probably needs its own catagory.

  • Pat

    How much water disappears?
    Do please correct errors I may have made in this back-of-the-envelope estimate. I was curious.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

    Estimates world power consumption at 12.3E12 watts per year.

    or 12.3E6 mega watts per year. At 3.3L of H2O per megawatt, that would use (convert water to dark matter) 3.7E6 L of water per year if the world used Sun Cell technology for all energy use

    https://www.quora.com/How-many-gallons-of-water-are-in-the-oceans-1

    gives the amount of water on Earth as 3.5E20 gallons or 1.32E21 L.

    So, 100 years of using Sun Cells would convert 3.7E8 L per century. This would reduce the water on Earth by 3.7E8 L out of a reservoir of 1.32E21 L — or, a pretty vanishing amount. Or, it would take something like 3.6E14 years to use all the water on Earth, or about 3.6E8 years to have used up one millionth of the water on Earth.

    The sun is on schedule to burn up in about 5E9 years. So, when the sun disappears, we would have used up something like 1.9E16 L of water, or 14ppm of the ocean. So, getting all of the power used on Earth from Sun Cells for the duration of the life of our solar system, there would still be around 99.9999% of the ocean water left.

    • Axil Axil

      FYI, there is much more water underground and in the mantle than is contained in all the world’s oceans,

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/

      • enantiomer2000

        Also, Mills has indicated that this thing integrated from a car for instance would be able to extract all the water it needs directly from the atmosphere so you could essentially drive it forever.

        • R V

          Yes you could. These things could also power ships, trains, busses and ultimately, even planes.

    • R V

      Your numbers are a little off because it’s 3.3L per megawatt hour not year. Future SunCells will very likely be much more efficient, like, 80% or higher.

      At that rate it would take 3 and 10 billion years to run out but that doesn’t consider the fact that there are several oceans worth of water locked up in the earths crust. It would take a very long time to even get to using 1%.

      Or course fusion and or other sources would likely be developed within a century or two anyway.

  • Axil Axil

    Ken Shoulders et al has experimented with sparks for years and has shown transmutation is produced by electric arching. It is a sure thing that transmutation will be found in the ash of the SunCell. It has been found already, experimentally,

    See

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298173327_Electro-nuclear_transmutation_low-energy_nuclear_reactions_in_an_electrolytic_cell

  • R V

    I’m not saying people shouldn’t be skeptical but when no one will even bother to confirm or refute a new discovery because they cannot get past initial skepticism then the scientific process has broken down. The hydrino could have been confirmed or refuted a couple of decades ago yet it wasn’t primarily because no one is interested. That’s because they are too skeptical and for wrong reasons.

    So too much skepticism slows science down.

  • R V

    Depending on the energy level, SunCells may be able to get the water supply directly from the air.

  • R V

    Mills thinks Rossi is a fraud so unlikely.

  • R V

    No, it’s part of the optical conversion process. It may not be the only way and some conversion happens in Argon or air but he has stated its part of the conversion.

  • Axil Axil

    FYI, there is much more water underground and in the mantle than is contained in all the world’s oceans,

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/

  • MasterBlaster7

    I am forever skeptical of BLP. But, it was a pretty light show.

    • R V

      You’ll laugh when you drive around in a SunCell powered or charged car…

  • tlp

    Water is the catalyst, in the form of HOH.
    Silver and water are injected together. Next week we will learn what new they have invented in this process, by watching the demo video.

  • Fedir Mykhaylov

    As long as it is light and grimy mirror. Before the industrial implementation of a walk to the moon

  • R V

    Your numbers are a little off because it’s 3.3L per megawatt hour not year. Future SunCells will very likely be much more efficient, like, 80% or higher.

    Any that rate it would take 3 and 10 billion years to run out but that doesn’t consider the fact that there are several oceans worth of water looked up in the earths crust. It would take a very long time to even get to using 1%.

    Or course fusion and or other sources would likely be developed within a century or two anyway.

  • R V

    Yes you could. These things could also power ships, trains, busses and ultimately, even planes.

  • tlp
    • tlp

      Page 32: Input power 6.68 kW Output power 1260 kW

      • tlp

        Closed SunCell video, slide 93, some earlier slides are pictures and cad drawings.
        Video ended in some failure, some hot stuff leaking.

        • R V

          What did it look like?

          • tlp

            Cannot you see the video? Use Adobe Acrobar Reader. It is a glowing ball, some cooling pipes wrapped around it, like you can see in those pictures.
            Some talking about thermocouple readings, over 1000 degrees, “no heating power” I quess means that initial heating phase to get silver in liquid mode is ended, no more heating is needed. Then something red hot starts leaking.

          • artefact

            a pitty. Just before the fun begins.

          • tlp

            This was probably one of the first test runs. Next week we know how the live demo went last Tuesday.

          • R V

            Thanks. My Ipad doesn’t download videos. I’ll eventually get to a PC. One can use the Stephan Boltzmann law to estimate the heat power released at any temperature.

      • R V

        I’d have to see all the details. The output number may have been determined by mere fractions of a degree change in a flowing cooling fluid.

        • R V

          Also, the energy balance of Mills’ devices and tests are so large he is not concerned about closing the loop at this point in time.

  • tlp

    Slides available now: http://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/Tech-Business-Presentation-062816.pdf
    This is a 105 MB file that may take some time to download. Save the file to your local drive and open it in Adobe Acrobat to watch the embedded videos.

    Full presentation video next week.

    • tlp

      Page 32: Input power 6.68 kW Output power 1260 kW
      COP=188, measured with water flow calorimeter

      • tlp

        Closed SunCell video, slide 93, some earlier slides (72-92) are pictures and cad drawings.
        Video ended in some failure, some hot stuff leaking.

        • R V

          What did it look like?

          • tlp

            Cannot you see the video? Use Adobe Acrobar Reader. It is a glowing ball, some cooling pipes wrapped around it, like you can see in those pictures.
            Some talking about thermocouple readings, over 1000 degrees, “no heating power” I quess means that initial heating phase to get silver in liquid mode is ended, no more heating is needed. Then something red hot starts leaking.

          • artefact

            a pitty. Just before the fun begins.

          • tlp

            This was probably one of the first test runs. Next week we know how the live demo went last Tuesday.

          • R V

            Thanks. My Ipad doesn’t download videos. I’ll eventually get to a PC. One can use the Stephan Boltzmann law to estimate the heat power released at any temperature.

            The blackbody radiator is supposed to get to at or over 3000K.

      • R V

        I’d have to see all the details. The output number may have been determined by mere fractions of a degree change in a flowing cooling fluid.

    • I’m sorry but the slide show just reeks of made up BS to me. I can’t believe that the Mills is right, thereby making 10s of thousands of physicists wrong (about the nature of matter and specifically hydrogen).

      But you have to give him props as he certainly has yuge balls. He starts the presentation by saying quantum mechanics is wrong. LOL. It’s only one of the most successful theories in the entire history of science. What is that saying about “the bigger the lie…”?

      • tlp

        Most of this presentation is old, I just pointed below what is new.
        COP of 188 and closed SunCell video are the most important.

        Of course it is a known fact that quantum mechanics is wrong, classical physics of Maxwell, Einstein and Mills rules!

        • Well, while I suspect he’s wrong about the theory used to explain it, I still want him to “fluke one out” and commercialize this product successfully.

          • R V

            People can argue about the theory but I think the hydrino will be accepted as a fact of nature eventually. Too much evidence. But perhaps the QM crowd will attempt to ‘own’ it by incorporation it into standard QM theory. At that point I won’t care. We’ll all have hydrino power.

          • Axil Axil

            It seems that the SunCell gets its power from this HOH molocue that he has discovered. Any info on it from Mills would be interesting and important in understanding the SunCell.

          • R V

            The HOH is just the catalyst. The energy comes from the shrunken hydrogen atoms called hydrino atoms.

      • R V

        No doubt QM is useful and has successfully calculated some things to high precision. But that would likely also be true of any theory that was the best they had up to that point.

        It’s also always the case, by definition, that a new theory at first is in opposition to the field. Physics is not a consensus science done by polls.

        BTW, QM is not one theory but many theories. The stuff about it being the most accurate theory is hype for the masses. Of course a lot of physicists buy into the hype too. It’s based on a couple of QED calculations to about ten places. Interestingly, my QM dictionary shows that the error bars on the experimental data and the uncertainties in the calculated numbers actually do not overlap. That means to experimental error, the theoretical numbers do not match the theoretical numbers. So they back off on the decimal claims. Also, those few calculations are done with immense labor, and an astronomical number of terms and I think a few fudge factors too.

        So, those tens of thousands of physicists can indeed all be wrong. It’s happened many times before.

        • optiongeek

          The 10-figure accurate QED calculation most cited is the anomalous magnetic moment of the electron. I’ve gone through the derivation and it’s 50-pages of non-physical constants, plus a bunch of numeric processing code.
          In contrast, Mills’ theory derives the same value with the same level of accuracy in a closed-form equation in three terms, each involving alpha, the fine structure constant of polynomial order no higher than 3. I’ve been through both calculations, and I know which one seems more intuitive to me.

        • Thanks for responding but I don’t have the time or energy to follow you down this particular rabbit hole. good luck!

        • Axil Axil

          I would like your opion on a new post, “A simplified theory of LENR”

          • R V

            I don’t have a thorough background in LENR so my opinion would not be that valid.

  • tlp

    Most of this presentation is old, I just pointed below what is new.
    COP of 188 and closed SunCell video are the most important.

    Of course it is a known fact that quantum mechanics is wrong, classical physics of Maxwell, Einstein and Mills rules!

  • tlp

    Mills recent comment about PV conversion efficiency:
    We have designs for cells that optimally operate with the spectrum of 3000K blackbody, others designed for 3500K. The emissivity of W is non-linear favoring emission of visible light, and we plan to use infrared filters/reflectors that will significantly increase the conversion efficiency.

  • tlp

    Mills recent comment about PV conversion efficiency:
    We have designs for cells that optimally operate with the spectrum of 3000K blackbody, others designed for 3500K. The emissivity of W is non-linear favoring emission of visible light, and we plan to use infrared filters/reflectors that will significantly increase the conversion efficiency.

  • R V

    No doubt QM is useful and has successfully calculated some things to high precision. But that would likely also be true of any theory that was the best they had up to that point.

    It’s also always the case, by definition, that a new theory at first is in opposition to the field. Physics is not a consensus science done by polls.

    BTW, QM is not one theory but many theories. The stuff about it being the most accurate theory is hype for the masses. Of course a lot of physicists buy into the hype too. It’s based on a couple of QED calculations to about ten places. Interestingly, my QM dictionary shows that the error bars on the experimental data and the uncertainties in the calculated numbers actually do not overlap. That means to experimental error, the theoretical numbers do not match the theoretical numbers. So they back off on the decimal claims. Also, those few calculations are done with immense labor, and an astronomical number of terms and I think a few fudge factors too.

    So, those tens of thousands of physicists can indeed all be wrong. It’s happened many times before.

    • Axil Axil

      I would like your opion on a new post, “A simplified theory of LENR”

      • R V

        I don’t have a thorough background in LENR so my opinion would not be that valid.

  • R V

    But, even though I am a huge Mills supporter, his statements must be parsed very carefully. His idea of a continuously operating closed system and my idea may be different. While I find Mills statement technically true, sometimes the actuality seems a bit less than I envisioned.

  • R V

    People can argue about the theory but I think the hydrino will be accepted as a fact of nature eventually. Too much evidence. But perhaps the QM crowd will attempt to ‘own’ it by incorporation it into standard QM theory. At that point I won’t care. We’ll all have hydrino power.

    • Axil Axil

      It seems that the SunCell gets its power from this HOH molocue that he has discovered. Any info on it from Mills would be interesting and important in understanding the SunCell.

      • R V

        The HOH is just the catalyst. The energy comes from the shrunken hydrogen atoms called hydrino atoms.

      • Axil Axil

        Maybe the hydrino is an effect and not a cause. Maybe the hydrino is caused by something more fundamental that affects the nature of matter and how matter behaves, a cause that changes the rules of the road in chemical behavior, a cause that is produced by certain catalysts, a cause that effect the nature of space time so as to distort quantum mechanics into new ways of operating. Maybe that cause is also what is fundamental to LENR.

        • R V

          You’re taking a step towards Mills but still trying to save LENR. Apply the principle of Occam’s Razor.

          • Axil Axil

            For awhile now, I have though that R. Mills has not seen the whole picture. This concentration on”effect” has stopped Mills from producing useful results for the last 20 years. Viewing effect as cause is pervasive in LENR. Mills is a good experimentalist. Looking at his data and ideas just requires selectivity,

          • R V

            His theory and data are entirely consistent. It’s hydrino’s, not LENR.

          • Axil Axil

            What produces the hydrino? For example, in the Fractional quantum Hall effect

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_quantum_Hall_effect

            Hall conductance shows a factional chance as a result of a change in a strong magnetic field. The reason for this is the creation of the composite fermion, a electron/magnetic quasiparticle. The magnetic field produces quasiparticles that change the nature of the electron.

            A strong EMF field could be changing the nature of the electrons in the presence of a catalyst that is producing a magnetic effect to form hydrinos which might be composite fermions.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_fermion

            The magnetic flux quanta could result in a modification of electron orbitals as Mills observes. But the cause is an applied magnetic field, the hydrino is the effect of that magnetic field.

          • R V

            There are no big magnetic fields in Mills’ experiments. The hydrino is caused by the hydrogen atom losing energy and shrinking. It’s just a small hydrogen atom. It still has the mass of hydrogen. It’s not a composite fermion particle.

            You are assuming all sorts of conditions in Mills’ data that are simply not the kind of experiments he is doing.

          • Axil Axil

            There are only 4 forces in nature. When Mills says that the energy is transferred between the catalyst and the electron, which one of these forces is involved? Or has Mills invented a new force?

          • R V

            Electromagnetism, like in all chemical reactions.

          • Axil Axil

            A indicator of the presence of magnetism is the presence of RF emissions. The RF is produced by a nuclear magnetic resonance processes, This RF and transmutation are signs of LENR activity.

  • Zeddicus23

    I have a few questions which hopefully someone familiar with the BLP/Mills demos might be able to answer:

    (1) Does Mills have any idea of how much energy is gained per hydrino? Or in other words what is the typical energy released per hydrogen atom which is converted to a hydrino? Is it 27.2 eV or some higher multiple of 27.2 eV?

    (2) What happens to the hydrinos? Are they inert? Do they just “disappear” into space? Several years ago Mills talked about making (hydrogenated?) solids and semiconductors with hydrinos. Has he done this?

    (3) If two hydrinos come into contact, can they form a shrunken H2 molecule? If so, wouldn’t this shrunken H2 molecular have a relatively large fusion probability? Since there is a significant fraction of deuterium in ordinary water, wouldn’t the formation of shrunken deuterinos lead to helium production via LENR?

    Any answers would be appreciated.

    • R V

      The answer to 1) is yes, but it depends on which hydrino state the hydrogen atom ends up in which depends on the catalyst. In the current results, the hydrogen is in the H(1/4) state which yields 204 ev per atom. Mills has worked out this entire field of hydrino chemistry.

      The answer to 2) is yes, they are almost completely inert. Generally they bind to each other and form an inert gas which is the present case is H2(1/4) which is two H(1/4) atoms bound and will float off into space just as H2 gas would. Under certain circumstances a hydrino atom can bind to a compound. Yes, Mills has made some compounds with hydrino atoms bound.

      The answer to 3) is partly answered above but they do have a larger fusion probability but not enough by many orders of magnitude to make a practical fusion device because the degree of size reduction is not near what muons can do which is a factor of 200 leading to muon enhanced fusion.

      Mills discusses all these issues in his books which are available for free download at his website.

      • Zeddicus23

        RV,
        Thanks for your reply. Your answers make sense (or at least are consistent with Mills’ theory). The issue of the hydrino compounds is an interesting one, especially since we haven’t heard much about this. Based on what you wrote, it would appear to be difficult to isolate/incorporate a reasonable number into a compound.

        • R V

          Mills talked a lot about compounds about fifteen years ago but now seems focused on energy generation. When Mills proves his case to the world I think all those things will be revisited.

          BTW, one interesting possibility is rocket fuel with something like a hundred times the kick for the same mass. Think what we could do with that!

      • Nicholas Payne

        The thing that I have a question about is how sure Mills is about producing this “safe” hydrino. After all he is using an electric ac which is not a very controllable process, At the end of the day it is similar to the De Borghi and Santelli experiments, the first producing transmutations and the second, something that set off a neutron detector. Thus it is possible they may have been producing hydrinos with the properties of neutrons or something that led to their generation by a secondary reaction. Neutrons are bad enough, but at least they are mostly decayed after an hour or so, while it seems the hydrino is pretty immortal. Mills could thus possibly be producing the mother of all pollutants along with his dream of almost free energy

        • R V

          Mills and team have isolated, identified and measured the di-hydrino gas. It’s smaller than hydrogen but not like a neutron.

          Why would it in principle be any different from the other noble gasses?

          It should float to space like hydrogen gas does.

          • Nicholas Payne

            I take your point, but the point I was really getting at is this is completely unexplored territory, so unexplored that 99.9% of physicists don’t even believe that it exists. Mills may be really smart, but while Rossi et al are causing transmutation, at least the products are isotopes we know and understand. Here there are questions. Are there dangerous hydrinos, i.e ones that can behave like neutrons?. Could a machine that makes safe ones also make dangerous ones as it ages or malfunctions? Can safe hydrinos be turned into dangerous ones by the action of say cosmic rays? Who are the independent voices that will ensure that such questions are answered

  • R V

    The answer to 1) is yes, but it depends on which hydrino state the hydrogen atom ends up in which depends on the catalyst. In the current results, the hydrogen is in the H(1/4) state which yields 204 ev per atom. Mills has worked out this entire field of hydrino chemistry.

    The answer to 2) is yes, they are almost completely inert. Generally they bind to each other and form an inert gas which is the present case is H2(1/4) which is to H(1/4) atoms bound and will float off into space just as H2 gas would. Under certain circumstances a hydrino atom can bind to a compound. Yes, Mills has made some compounds with hydrino atoms bound.

    The answer to 3) is partly answered above but they do have a larger fusion probability but not enough by many orders of magnitude to make a practical fusion device because the degree of size reduction is not near what muons can do which is a factor of 200 leading to muon enhanced fusion.

    Mills discusses all these issues in his books which are available for free download at his website.

    • Zeddicus23

      RV,
      Thanks for your reply. Your answers make sense (or at least are consistent with Mills’ theory). The issue of the hydrino compounds is an interesting one, especially since we haven’t heard much about this. Based on what you wrote, it would appear to be difficult to isolate/incorporate a reasonable number into a compound.

      • R V

        Mills talked a lot about compounds about fifteen years ago but now seems focused on energy generation. When Mills proves his case to the world I think all those things will be revisited.

        BTW, one interesting possibility is rocket fuel with something like a hundred times the kick for the same mass. Think what we could do with that!

  • Axil Axil

    Maybe the hydrino is an effect and not a cause. Maybe the hydrino is caused by something more fundamental that affects the nature of matter and how matter behaves, a cause that changes the rules of the road in chemical behavior, a cause that is produced by certain catalysts, a cause that effect the nature of space time so as to distort quantum mechanics into new ways of operating. Maybe that cause is also what is fundamental to LENR.

    • R V

      You’re taking a step towards Mills but still trying to save LENR. Apply the principle of Occam’s Razor.

      • Axil Axil

        For awhile now, I have thought that R. Mills has not seen the whole picture. This concentration on”effect” has stopped Mills from producing useful results for the last 20 years. Viewing effect as cause is pervasive in LENR. Mills is a good experimentalist. Looking at his data and ideas just requires selectivity,

        • R V

          His theory and data are entirely consistent. It’s hydrino’s, not LENR. The power levels were too low until recently. Many different methods were tried. The probability that Mills found several completely different ways to produce a nuclear reaction is too low to contemplate. But there should be many ways to practically stimulate hydrino reactions which is consistent with what he found.

          • Axil Axil

            What is confused in LENR is cause and effect. Oftentimes, effects are confused as being the cause of LENR but in fact the effect is not the cause. For example, what produces the hydrino?

            In the Fractional quantum Hall effect

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_quantum_Hall_effect

            Hall conductance shows a factional chance as a result of a change in a strong magnetic field. The reason for this is the creation of the composite fermion, a electron/magnetic quasiparticle. The magnetic field produces quasiparticles that change the nature of the electron.

            A strong EMF field could be changing the nature of the electrons in the presence of a catalyst that is producing a magnetic effect to form hydrinos which might be composite fermions.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_fermion

            The magnetic flux quanta could result in a modification of electron orbitals as Mills observes. But the cause is an applied magnetic field, the hydrino is the effect of that magnetic field.

            If the magnetic field is the true cause of LENR and the hydrino also appears as a result of the magnetic field, it is possible that the the hydrino is mistakenly assumed to be the cause of LENR. But the real cause that works at a deeper and irreducible fundamental level is the applied magnetic field.

          • R V

            There are no big magnetic fields in Mills’ experiments. The hydrino is caused by the hydrogen atom losing energy and shrinking. It’s just a small hydrogen atom. It still has the mass of hydrogen. It’s not a composite fermion particle.

            You are assuming all sorts of conditions in Mills’ data that are simply not the kind of experiments he is doing.

          • Axil Axil

            There are only 4 forces in nature. When Mills says that the energy is transferred between the catalyst and the electron, which one of these forces is involved? Or has Mills invented a new force?

          • R V

            Electromagnetism, like in all chemical reactions.

            The problem with you LENR guys is you go off into wild speculation with no real information. Mills work is based on years of study, thought and experiment. He’s not just shooting from the hip.

          • Axil Axil

            A indicator of the presence of magnetism is the presence of RF emissions. The RF is produced by a nuclear magnetic resonance processes, This RF and transmutation are signs of LENR activity.

  • James Wood

    I would suggest someone with the necessary skills look to the Engineering Model derived from the ECE approach to general relativity. (See AIAS: http://www.aias.us/Books/PECE.pdf for a summary of this theory) The Engineering Model derived from the equations of Cartan differential geometry constructed in a separate paper also available at this site demonstrates equations identical to the Maxwell equations. However, the scalar and vector potentials constructed contain additional terms. In particular, a scalar and vector construct called spin connection (related to the Christoffel symbols which are derived from Elie Cartan’s version of differential geometry which contains torsion as well as curvature. General Relativity does not contain torsion.

    Mill’s boundary condition excluding radial components should be used to solve these equations to find the implications for the orbitsphere. The two derivations for the orbitsphere could then be compared. The spin connection so to speak is a direct expression of the geometry of spacetime and would, in principle, allow chemical reactions which depend on the orbitsphere behavior to be manipulated through the spin connection.

    Since Mill’s has also produced software to demonstrate the implications of the orbitsphere for chemistry from the standard Maxwell equations it may be relatively easy to introduce the spin connection into this software and determine graphically the implications of various spin connection geometries for the orbitsphere and dependent chemical reactions.

    Altering the spin connection by various means would change the local character of space-time affecting the chemical reactions within the relevant volume of space since orbitsphere behavior and geometry would be different. This would imply that chemical reactions are dependent on the local character of the space-time environment. There would be a new chemistry for each different local space-time as identified by the chosen spin connection geometry.

    Someone should prod Mills and the AIAS group into a collaboration to explore these implications. The nature of the hydrino may well be further explored. Furthermore, currently inaccessible orbitspheres of other molecules may be discovered, made accessible, and their stability under standard conditions determined. Whole new fields of chemistry of exotic compounds, both stable and unstable, could be called into being.

    • Axil Axil

      Doesn’t the action of catalysts work under this assumption? The catalysts change the nature of the space in which the chemical reaction is operating.

      • R V

        The action of the catalyst has nothing to do with the principles of general Relativity so no, it doesn’t work under than assumption.

        No, catalysts do not ‘change the nature of the space in which the chemical reaction is operating’.

    • R V

      I’m slightly familiar with AIAS. There is no relationship to Mills’ work.

  • James Wood

    I would suggest someone with the necessary skills look to the Engineering Model derived from the ECE approach to general relativity. (See AIAS: http://www.aias.us/Books/PECE.pdf for a summary of this theory) The Engineering Model derived from the equations of Cartan differential geometry constructed in a separate paper also available at this site demonstrates equations identical to the Maxwell equations. However, the scalar and vector potentials constructed contain additional terms. In particular, a scalar and vector construct called spin connection (related to the Christoffel symbols which are derived from Elie Cartan’s version of differential geometry which contains torsion as well as curvature. General Relativity does not contain torsion.

    Mill’s boundary condition excluding radial components should be used to solve these equations to find the implications for the orbitsphere. The two derivations for the orbitsphere could then be compared. The spin connection so to speak is a direct expression of the geometry of spacetime and would, in principle, allow chemical reactions which depend on the orbitsphere behavior to be manipulated through the spin connection.

    Since Mill’s has also produced software to demonstrate the implications of the orbitsphere for chemistry from the standard Maxwell equations it may be relatively easy to introduce the spin connection into this software and determine graphically the implications of various spin connection geometries for the orbitsphere and dependent chemical reactions.

    Altering the spin connection by various means would change the local character of space-time affecting the chemical reactions within the relevant volume of space since orbitsphere behavior and geometry would be different. This would imply that chemical reactions are dependent on the local character of the space-time environment. There would be a new chemistry for each different local space-time as identified by the chosen spin connection geometry.

    Someone should prod Mills and the AIAS group into a collaboration to explore these implications. The nature of the hydrino may well be further explored. Furthermore, currently inaccessible orbitspheres of other molecules may be discovered, made accessible, and their stability under standard conditions determined. Whole new fields of chemistry of exotic compounds, both stable and unstable, could be called into being.

    • Axil Axil

      Doesn’t the action of catalysts work under this assumption? The catalysts change the nature of the space in which the chemical reaction is operating.

      • James Wood

        Catalysts are not generally thought of this way. However, you may be right. The concept of reactions within a lattice in LENR may well be similar. The matter surrounding the reactions of interest may alter spacetime and the reaction pathways followed.

        High pressures also allow the creation of unstable compounds such as Na2Cl3 instead of NaCL, common salt. Pressure fields may then be thought of as altering spacetime around the reaction of interest.

        The concept is more general than embedding a reaction in a material structure. One might use a radiation structure as well. Electromagnetic radiation in the ECE theory is a construct of a geometric frame’s curvature and torsion–spacetime behavior itself.

        Think of carrying out a chemical reaction in a microwave. Here the energy introduced into the reaction by the radiation field is not the primary consideration but the structure of the radiation field inside the box and its interaction with the reaction of interest. The two effects would need to be distinguished.

        Photon stimulation of a reaction with a laser would also fit into this conception. The important point I am suggesting is to take a concept of unification which at this level is general hand waving and make it operational and quantitative. The environment of a chemical reaction is likely far more plastic and manipulable than generally thought.

        Mill’s theory provides the orbit sphere from boundary conditions on Maxwell’s equations whose structure defines the usual chemistry of matter and more. This theory appears to be effective in describing the chemistry of matter.

        The ECE theory is considerably more general but can reduce to a set of equations which resemble the Maxwell equations but with extra terms containing the scalar and vector spin connections which can be calculated and subsequently manipulated in physical apparatus.

        Solutions of these equations under Mill’s boundary condition suggest not just one orbitsphere for the usual conditions but many dependent on the choice of spin connection field.

        One would then, for example, look to calculate the spin connection field inside a material lattice and use Mill’s adapted theory with a spin connection to examine changes in the orbitspheres of the molecules of interest inside the material lattice as opposed to a more open environment.

        This could get quite complicated as the spin connection fields would likely change from point to point in the lattice so the orbitspheres would change their properties as they too move from point to point within the lattice.

        Radiation structures, photons, microwaves, etc. might be easier to manipulate. Comparison of orbitsphere effects between material, pressure, radiation and other structures that alter spin connection and spacetime could define substitutions of one choice of manipulative tool for another under various conditions. The ECE-Mills Boundary Condition model would provide a common framework for quantifying the effects.

        Mills already has a software tool in the Millsian software which presumably could be modified to use spin connection fields and which could bring rapid assimilation of the possibilities into chemistry. Thus I would recommend a collaboration between AIAS and the people at Brilliant Light Power’s Milllsian software division to produce software which could be used to explore the new possibilities for computational chemistry, LENR, sonofusion, and what have you.

        • R V

          All that ‘spin connection’ stuff is highly contrioversial and no one buys it except the ECE guys.

      • R V

        The action of the catalyst has nothing to do with the principles of general Relativity so no, it doesn’t work under than assumption.

        No, catalysts do not ‘change the nature of the space in which the chemical reaction is operating’.

    • R V

      I’m slightly familiar with AIAS. There is no relationship to Mills’ work.

  • R V

    Mills and team have isolated, identified and measured the di-hydrino gas. It’s smaller than hydrogen but not like a neutron.

    Why would it in principle be any different from the other noble gasses?

    It should float to space like hydrogen gas does.

  • R V

    All that ‘spin connection’ stuff is highly contrioversial and no one buys it except the ECE guys.