ECW Poll: Your Thoughts on the E-Cat as a Commercially Viable Technology

Some people have asked for this, so I though it might be interesting to put a poll out regarding readers’ current thoughts on the E-Cat as a commercially viable technology. For myself, the whole reason for following this story along its many twists and turns is because if real, the E-Cat would represent a very important technological breakthrough that could bring many benefits to the world.

So this poll is focused on the technology itself, not the parties or personalities involved. Basically what I’m interested in finding out is what readers’ current thoughts are about the E-Cat itself. How confident are you that it is a real and valuable technology?

Whether it will emerge into the marketplace is for me a separate issue, as it could indeed be a real and viable but for possible business, legal or political reasons it might not make it to market. So this poll is about your thoughts on the technology itself.

The poll is posted on the right side of the site, below the headlines on the right column

  • Gunnar Lindberg

    It did not take a year from Rossi’s demonstrations in 2011 to understand that he was a conman. There was nothing more than Rossi says and trust Rossi. Despite his efforts to convince, he refused to permit the simple test that would have convinced.

    About LENR in general, I must make many friends here dissapointed. It is an internet phenomen. Given the way it works, reports of various positive results is only what you would expect without any true effect present.

    • Bruce__H

      Bang on, unfortunately.

      No to Rossi and no to LENR as a real phenomenon. I wish it were real but, as Gunnar Lindberg says, the scattered positive reports with no real reproducability are just what you expect if it isn’t true.

    • Graham Simms

      Admin please:

      So, is the word “fraud” allowed on e-catworld.com now as a plausible hypothesis for Rossi’s activities? And if so, what will become of all those who were banned for expressing negative opinions about Rossi and the ecat? Are they now welcome because they knew Rossi didn’t have the goods before anyone else knew? Or are they, like Catholics who ate meat on Friday before it became legal, stuck somewhere in Purgatory, never to return? Thanks.

      • Redford

        It has always been an accepted discussion here. Just reading comments shows it’s probably the most common one. Of course, if you claim something is proven out of the blue, don’t expect to be taken seriously. How exactly to you know for sure Rossi doesn’t have the goods, in a way that’s so evident everyone would surely agree with you ?

    • peacelovewoodstock

      Oh no! Who is going to tell the many hundreds of researchers who are actively pursuing LENR and who have conducted many, many reproducible experiments demonstrating excess heat production or COP > 1?

      • roseland67

        Peace,

        I would very much like to see each of the many hundred experiments replicated by each of the many hundred scientists, this would go a long way in supporting LENR

      • Gunnar Lindberg

        A guess, that is a rhetorical question.

    • nietesnie

      Gunnar – the Lugano test was very persuasive to me. Independent researchers, who are known and respected in their fields, testing a Rossi-built device, in their own space, that showed a COP greater than 1 for a month and resulted in nuclear changes to the fuel. That wasn’t ‘trust Rossi’. You can say that you’d like even more certainty, and maybe there were details of the testing procedure that were not 100% air-tight. But you must at least admit that Lugano was persuasive and a very good start.

      • Gunnar Lindberg

        The team that performed the test was totally dependent on Andra Rossi. They was not free to chose how to test, nor were they allowed to do a proper calibration or to manage the so called fuel and ash. If that is not enough to arise doubs, the test leader was Rossis long time coworker.

        Later, the Swedish professors have tried to replicate the Lugano test by themselvs, no succsess reported.

        • Mike Rion

          Rossi understands that no matter how complete he allows it to be tested there will still be many skeptics who throw doubt on it. He has decided at this point to put all of his effort into perfecting it for commercialization.

        • Redford

          This needs to be substantiated. For instance, Levi has been criticised as being Rossi “long time coworker”. I digged into this only to see it’s a complete deformation. They had no prior knowledge of each other before ecat. Levi is one of the first physicist to take interest into ecat and has then involved himself to study it which is absolutely to be expected if eCat is what it’s claimed to be. Unless you can prove that the claim of Rossi and Levi not having professional relation before eCat is untrue, you have to admit that you’ve been misguided.

          Same goes for the “totally dependent to AR” when from what I read, it was rather “nearly totally independent from AR”. And BTW people spending a day with an eCat without Rossi also happened before the Lugano report, several times.

        • wpj

          Strange that the kit, controller and fuel were made and supplied by IH rather than Rossi- they produced all the bits. According to Eng48, they have also “mislaid” everything from the test.

        • nietsnie

          <<>>

          Not really. Rossi wasn’t even in town for most of the test. The researchers had their own instruments collecting data. The power going in was controlled by them. The energy coming out was measured by them using their own equipment.

          <<>>

          I grant – that’s a data whose chain of custody can be quibbled over. But – not very much.

          <<>>

          That the entire team would risk their professional future in order to participate in a Rossi fraud would be an *enormous* conspiracy. It only seems possible if you absolutely refuse to believe the evidence under any circumstances on general principle. And, of course, if that is true – there’s no use discussing it with you.

          <<>>

          So, you’re saying that first they all actively participated in a fraud – and then they failed to produce the same results using their own home made device and reported their failure? What a clever ploy by them!

    • Michael W Wolf

      Yep. oil is our only hope. That’s it fold up shop Frank. lol

    • Mike

      I believe you. I have not heard of any successful e-cat operation where A Rossi has not been present. That should make everyone suspicious.

      • Redford

        Except that there has been numerous replications where he wasn’t present, and that there are MFMP, Parkmonov, other russian, chinese etc replication papers. Claiming some element are missing to dismiss an hypothesis only works if those elements are missing, not if you didn’t know they did exist.

  • wizkid

    I tried to vote, but it still says zero votes. Is this from Cherokee?

    POLLS

    You Had Already Voted For This Poll. Poll ID #21

  • wizkid

    I tried to vote, but it still says zero votes. Is this from Cherokee?

    POLLS

    You Had Already Voted For This Poll. Poll ID #21

    • MikeP

      It shows now – 140 voters.

  • wizkid

    retract – it works. sorry

  • wizkid

    retract – it works. sorry

  • Andy Kumar

    Admin,
    Could you ask all the regulars to vote (give their opinion) on e-cat viability and level of trust in the main player. Make it a public post here in this thread. Also ask them to at least answer two simple questions:
    .
    1. if they have at least one year of college physics.
    2. if not, did they feel comfortable with high school regular physics?
    .
    Most regulars preface their opinions with “Although I am not an engineer/scientist, ….”. This lowers the quality of the blog way too much.

    • sam

      I might pass a grade 5 Science
      Exam but I put it at 50/50.

    • Redford

      There has bee, so many failures from expert in many level that I am not sure it does, TBH. If you juste look at LENR, apart of Rossi, it’s now clearly proven. How many “scientist” would have accepted just to discuss the possiblity of LENR being real just 10 years ago ? Only none exeprt would have. And they would have been right, and the people with college physics background would not.

    • Michael W Wolf

      That is like saying if you are not a politician, you can’t vote. And if you ask the establishment, you would think there is no such thing as lenr. Would that lower the quality of scientists? And what of the quality of character or lack thereof seen in all too many of the skeptics? No amount of education can fix that. Also it is comments like yours that lowers the quality of this blog.

  • Christina

    LENR’s been discovered. It’ll take however long it takes to make it a viable form of energy for the world, but in the end, it’ll work. The Father didn’t make it to frustrate us, but to help us have energy.

    Christina

    • Dan Woodward

      I agree with that. LENR is a reality, and many applications will be developed in the next 50 years. I just hope I am around to see it!

      • HS61AF91

        enthusiasm for LENR, vit C, DHEA, Melatonin, and exercise help!

  • Billy Jackson

    Just a personal opinion.

    I do believe the e-cat is a viable technology. Though i do not think that its 100% ready to be let loose at this time. For me the e-cat needs to be run or automated to a point where you do not need the inventor sitting in a box for a year to make it work.

    I think for the first time alot of us are being exposed to the process that inventions go through before you see them on TV. The internet has opened the grounds for us to see the daily development of the E-cat, be it for better or worse.

    Rossi’s willingness to communicate ongoing developments has us on the edge of our seats dreaming of the possibilities that this technology might enhance or allow. Yet that communication comes with expectations and when we have setbacks the disappointment is proportional to the excitement we were feeling. I am hopeful that we get it right in the end.

    That being said i have my fears that Rossi, though deserving of as much credit and accolades that we can throw his way, may not be the individual that is best at bringing the e-cat into the market as a viable product. A great inventor does not automatically make him a great business man. It is my belief that for Rossi to make the billions i think he deserves + royalties, he’s going to have to sell (or partner) this technology to someone with a better sense of management.

    • Billy Jackson

      I have read through the entire thread and i have noticed a general theme for those who continually skeptic despite all the evidence they have to dismiss to support their skepticism. This is going to be my attempt to reach out one final time to those who are truly confused on if LENR is real or fake. (please understand i am not a scientist, i have no degree’s in anything to do with a science related field.)

      1. Lugano test . Evidence supports a positive outcome.
      So the biggest argument that you see skeptics use to say the Lugano report was a failure is Rossi’s handling of the fuel. You see skeptic after skeptic attempt to attach some meaningful plausibility to discredit the report simply from this act alone. Yet not once have they been able to dispute the evidence that the this small device ran for 31 days at a COP of greater than 2.x. No chemical fuel that would fit in the size of that container would have lasted for 31 days and produced the level of energy that it did with no sign of drop off. the test ended because they wanted it to end not because of imminent failure of the fuel or the e-cat.

      You will see these same skeptics want you to believe that 7 reputable high level scientist some with massive experience in the lab, were all incapable of running basic meters to read the energy input and output. Despite the evidence the skeptics have yet to be able to point to any part of the test and say “here” that’s wrong. were there errors? yes, but those errors did not change the outcome of the final summary more than a few points. In the end the test was completed and the math shows a COP of 2.x. The best the skeptics have been able to do is dismiss the entire report with no evidence to back them up by crossing their arms across their chest and saying like spoiled children.. “SO! i don’t believe them!”

      As long as this remains their method of debate, their can be no real debate with them as they refuse to acknowledge any evidence that damages their argument or position.

      2. Refusal to accept ANY evidence.
      NASA, US Navy Research, MFMP, MIT, and several other high level industry leaders have come out and said something interesting is going on with LENR. Yet the skeptics still refuse to acknowledge these statements since it does not support their agenda that LENR does not work. Instead they keep pointing back to Rossi and beating on their own beliefs and schooling.. they KNOW its not real, their own experience (of which most have none) and everything they have been TOLD says it cant be real. so it cant be real! (thank god science does not work like that or we would never prove anything) Their clinging to their beliefs despite countering arguments or evidence limits a logical debate on the subject. They know what they know and you cant tell them different. (they demand science like behavior and evidence but then resort to non-science like responses and expect you to accept them.

      3. IH has made a reactor on their own and filed a patent on it reporting a COP of 11+ without Rossi present.
      They absolutely refuse to acknowledge this and have ignored this piece of evidence because it destroys their entire position in full.. This is the smoking gun. throw it in the face of their argument and they will ignore the statement and continue as if you said nothing.

      4. Finally we come to the 1MW plant. this comes down to rumor and conjecture. but we have 3 pieces of evidence. Rossi and IH agreed to multiple people who’s quarterly and final reports are within the margin of error of each other (or close enough that a few percentage points off will not sway the overall outcome) .. again this is rumor and conjecture but with multiple reports saying COP of +50. (even if its half that its still revolutionary!) its very very hard to dispute with any credibility that everything to do with LENR and Rossi is a fraud or one of the largest con’s ever. entirely to many people are involved for “everyone” to be in on it.

      I acknowledge completely that Rossi is a hard person to read and understand at times. Yet at no point have i seen an outright lie. In most cases he simply does not correct our assumptions until we find through a report that WE were wrong.

      the above is my personal opinion and represents only that. Others of this board may have differing views and support or arguments against what i believe. That is their right and privilege on this board to debate their position i simply ask that we all do so in a manner that is productive, based on mutual respect through the use of logical analysis of the evidence and not emotional tantrums that are best left with the children..

      • HS61AF91

        awesome summary, many kudos.

  • Billy Jackson

    Just a personal opinion.

    I do believe the e-cat is a viable technology. Though i do not think that its 100% ready to be let loose at this time. For me the e-cat needs to be run or automated to a point where you do not need the inventor sitting in a box for a year to make it work.

    I think for the first time alot of us are being exposed to the process that inventions go through before you see them on TV. The internet has opened the grounds for us to see the daily development of the E-cat, be it for better or worse.

    Rossi’s willingness to communicate ongoing developments has us on the edge of our seats dreaming of the possibilities that this technology might enhance or allow. Yet that communication comes with expectations and when we have setbacks the disappointment is proportional to the excitement we were feeling. I am hopeful that we get it right in the end.

    That being said i have my fears that Rossi, though deserving of as much credit and accolades that we can throw his way, may not be the individual that is best at bringing the e-cat into the market as a viable product. A great inventor does not automatically make him a great business man. It is my belief that for Rossi to make the billions i think he deserves + royalties, he’s going to have to sell (or partner) this technology to someone with a better sense of management.

    (this opinion is subject to change due to the lack of knowledge of whats happening behind the closed doors) 🙂

    • Michael W Wolf

      Spot on as usual Billy.

    • Billy Jackson

      I have read through the entire thread and i have noticed a general theme for those who continually skeptic despite all the evidence they have to dismiss to support their skepticism. This is going to be my attempt to reach out one final time to those who are truly confused on if LENR is real or fake. (please understand i am not a scientist, i have no degree’s in anything to do with a science related field.)

      1. Lugano test . Evidence supports a positive outcome.
      So the biggest argument that you see skeptics use to say the Lugano report was a failure is Rossi’s handling of the fuel. You see skeptic after skeptic attempt to attach some meaningful plausibility to discredit the report simply from this act alone. Yet not once have they been able to dispute the evidence that the this small device ran for 31 days at a COP of greater than 2.x. No chemical fuel that would fit in the size of that container would have lasted for 31 days and produced the level of energy that it did with no sign of drop off. the test ended because they wanted it to end not because of imminent failure of the fuel or the e-cat.

      You will see these same skeptics want you to believe that 7 reputable high level scientist some with massive experience in the lab, were all incapable of running basic meters to read the energy input and output. Despite the evidence the skeptics have yet to be able to point to any part of the test and say “here” that’s wrong. were there errors? yes, but those errors did not change the outcome of the final summary more than a few points. In the end the test was completed and the math shows a COP of 2.x. The best the skeptics have been able to do is dismiss the entire report with no evidence to back them up by crossing their arms across their chest and saying like spoiled children.. “SO! i don’t believe them!”

      As long as this remains their method of debate, their can be no real debate with them as they refuse to acknowledge any evidence that damages their argument or position.

      2. Refusal to accept ANY evidence.
      NASA, US Navy Research, MFMP, MIT, and several other high level industry leaders have come out and said something interesting is going on with LENR. Yet the skeptics still refuse to acknowledge these statements since it does not support their agenda that LENR does not work. Instead they keep pointing back to Rossi and beating on their own beliefs and schooling.. they KNOW its not real, their own experience (of which most have none) and everything they have been TOLD says it cant be real. so it cant be real! (thank god science does not work like that or we would never prove anything) Their clinging to their beliefs despite countering arguments or evidence limits a logical debate on the subject. They know what they know and you cant tell them different. (they demand science like behavior and evidence but then resort to non-science like responses and expect you to accept them.

      3. IH has made a reactor on their own and filed a patent on it reporting a COP of 11+ without Rossi present.
      They absolutely refuse to acknowledge this and have ignored this piece of evidence because it destroys their entire position in full.. This is the smoking gun. throw it in the face of their argument and they will ignore the statement and continue as if you said nothing.

      4. Finally we come to the 1MW plant. this comes down to rumor and conjecture. Rossi and IH agreed to multiple readings from 3 separate individuals who’s quarterly and final reports are within the margin of error of each other (or close enough that a few percentage points off will not sway the overall outcome) .. again this is rumor and conjecture but with multiple reports saying COP of +50. (even if its half that its still revolutionary!) its very very hard to dispute with any credibility that everything to do with LENR and Rossi is a fraud or one of the largest con’s ever. entirely to many people are involved for “everyone” to be in on it.

      I acknowledge completely that Rossi is a hard person to read and understand at times. Yet at no point have i seen an outright lie. In most cases he simply does not correct our assumptions until we find through a report that WE were wrong.

      the above is my personal opinion and represents only that. Others of this board may have differing views and support or arguments against what i believe. That is their right and privilege on this board to debate their position i simply ask that we all do so in a manner that is productive, based on mutual respect through the use of logical analysis of the evidence and not emotional tantrums that are best left with the children..

      • HS61AF91

        awesome summary, many kudos.

  • Commercially viable. Politically not, except as a monopoly of existing energy cartels.

  • Commercially viable. Politically not, except as a monopoly of existing energy cartels.

  • MasterBlaster7

    100%….light this candle.

  • MasterBlaster7

    100%….light this candle.

  • Alain Samoun

    I voted 50-74%, last year I would have voted 75-99%, but the IH problem lower my expectation…

  • Alain Samoun

    I voted 50-74%, last year I would have voted 75-99%, but the IH problem lower my expectation…

  • interstellar hobo

    100%, but then I would’ve bought a biplane in 1903.

    It’s 1911, now. Sell the dang plane.

  • akupaku

    My belief in LENR as a real (new?) nuclear phenomenon is around 90-100%, LENR’s viability as a new revolutionary energy source around 70-90% and my belief in Rossi’s E-Cat maybe around 60-90%.

    I still think it more likely that Rossi has something real than that he is a fraudster. Although I must admit sometimes he does try my patience and faith.

    Hard to give more precise figures because my faith does vary weekly somewhat after reading positive or negative news and other member’s opinions and analysis on this site or elsewhere in other forums. Though I mainly read only this site as my time is very limited and I don’t even have time to read all comments here, I strive to read posts by a few members whom I find most interesting, objective and informative.

    Update:

    Somebody below asked about education: my education is in theoretical physics and mathematics in the 1970’s but my whole working career is in computer software, mostly telecommunications and finance/banking. Standard Theory of Quantum Mechanics was not yet taught in 1970’s so my physics knowledge is probably much outdated and rusty.

  • peacelovewoodstock

    Oh no! Who is going to tell the many hundreds of researchers who are actively pursuing LENR and who have conducted many, many reproducible experiments demonstrating excess heat production or COP > 1?

  • attaboy

    Just as sure as I believe its commercially viable, I’m equally sure there are forces out there, mainly corporate, trying to kill it.

  • Steve Savage

    10 Observations re Rossi, LENR and, Commercialization

    1. LENR is a real and proven phenomena – indisputable at this point.

    2. Before Rossi there was very little interest in and progress with LENR research, in fact it was not even called LENR. Rossi was the early leader and continues that role.

    3. Unless he is completely insane or self delusional there is no good reason to disbelieve in most of Rossi’s statements.

    4. Rossi has attracted commercial levels of investment from more than 1 source.

    5. Rossi must fight hard to protect his IP while trying to engineer plant for commercial purposes. This fight and the resulting smoke it generates can confuse even true believers.

    6. Rossi has proven adept at navigating a very rough landscape.

    7. There are probable and viable competitors … Main among them is Brilliant Light

    8. Rossi shows no sign of giving up and it is very unlikely he ever will

    9. There may be forces much bigger than Rossi (but not bigger than LENR) who will impact the nature and timing of commercialization.

    10. 75 – 99% seems most likely to me

  • Steve Savage

    10 Observations re Rossi, LENR and, Commercialization

    1. LENR is a real and proven phenomena – indisputable at this point.

    2. Before Rossi there was very little interest in and progress with LENR research, in fact it was not even called LENR. Rossi was the early leader and continues that role.

    3. Unless he is completely insane or self delusional there is no good reason to disbelieve in most of Rossi’s statements.

    4. Rossi has attracted commercial levels of investment from more than 1 source.

    5. Rossi must fight hard to protect his IP while trying to engineer plant for commercial purposes. This fight and the resulting smoke it generates can confuse even true believers.

    6. Rossi has proven adept at navigating a very rough landscape.

    7. There are probable and viable competitors … Main among them is Brilliant Light

    8. Rossi shows no sign of giving up and it is very unlikely he ever will

    9. There may be forces much bigger than Rossi (but not bigger than LENR) who will impact the nature and timing of commercialization.

    10. 75 – 99% seems most likely to me

  • GiveADogABone

    I am completely confident that the Rossi Effect is real and can be turned into a viable technology but I am not confident that Rossi can do it on his own. He needs commercial partnerships with people with serious capital and an understanding of the inventive process [1:]. I would offer Sir James Dyson as an example. https://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/James_Dyson
    . He said in his book that he built five thousand prototypes of his bagless vacuum cleaner before making the one that really started selling. I reckon Rossi and Dyson should have a chat.

    1: ‘In November 2014, Dyson announced plans to invest a further £1.5bn into the research and development of new technology, including funding for a campus at the Dyson UK headquarters in Malmesbury which will create up to 3,000 jobs.’

  • GiveADogABone

    I am completely confident that the Rossi Effect is real and can be turned into a viable technology but I am not confident that Rossi can do it on his own. He needs commercial partnerships with people with serious capital and an understanding of the inventive process [1:]. I would offer Sir James Dyson as an example. https://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/James_Dyson
    . He said in his book that he built five thousand prototypes of his bagless vacuum cleaner before making the one that really started selling. I reckon Rossi and Dyson should have a chat.

    1: ‘In November 2014, Dyson announced plans to invest a further £1.5bn into the research and development of new technology, including funding for a campus at the Dyson UK headquarters in Malmesbury which will create up to 3,000 jobs.’

  • nietsnie

    I feel quite confident that the technology is real – that is, that an effect exists in which more energy is produced than is supplied which uses some form of nuclear fusion without particle radiation. That alone is astonishing I think (not astonishing that I feel confident, but that it exists at all). But, I feel much less certain that it has been tamed sufficiently to make routine use of. There’s just very little independent data to make that determination. The fact that Rossi spent the entire year of the Florida test in a shipping container so as to be immediately available for the apparently frequent emergencies makes me wonder though.

    My take on it is that it is similar to trying to maintain a very small amount of feedback in an amplified room containing microphones without allowing the feedback to get out of control. Any small misstep and it tries to run away. They have software that watches it and attempts to control it – and yet, periodically, it gets away anyway and requires manual intervention.

    The thing is that there have been several people who have verified the COP > 1 LENR effect. But, Rossi says he’s getting COP over 50 with no independent verification
    whereas all the other experimenters are showing something barely over
    1. We only have Rossi’s say so that he’s getting that or that it is commercially viable now – and he has a financial interest. We’re told that a report exists that indicates that the Florida test was successful. We’re also told that everyone involved is a fraud. I don’t know any of those people personally myself, and the purported report is not available to me. So, I don’t have enough data to even have an opinion.

    If you will recall last year at this time by now there were going to be tours by the ‘customer’ of the plant by now. Yet, now we hear that the customer hasn’t ever wanted anyone to see their technology – and possibly doesn’t even exist at all. I try really hard not to determine where truth lies on an emotional basis or by what I hope or wish for. So, I’m on the fence still – but I’m not happy about it.

  • nietsnie

    I feel quite confident that the technology is real – that is, that an effect exists in which more energy is produced than is supplied which uses some form of nuclear fusion without particle radiation. That alone is astonishing I think (not astonishing that I feel confident, but that it exists at all). But, I feel much less certain that it has been tamed sufficiently to make routine use of. There’s just very little independent data to make that determination. The fact that Rossi spent the entire year of the Florida test in a shipping container so as to be immediately available for the apparently frequent emergencies makes me wonder though.

    My take on it is that it is similar to trying to maintain a very small amount of feedback in an amplified room containing microphones without allowing the feedback to get out of control. Any small misstep and it tries to run away. They have software that watches it and attempts to control it – and yet, periodically, it gets away anyway and requires manual intervention.

    The thing is that there have been several people who have verified the COP > 1 LENR effect. But, Rossi says he’s getting COP over 50 with no independent verification
    whereas all the other experimenters are showing something barely over
    1. We only have Rossi’s say so that he’s getting that or that it is commercially viable now – and he has a financial interest. We’re told that a report exists that indicates that the Florida test was successful. We’re also told that everyone involved is a fraud. I don’t know any of those people personally myself, and the purported report is not available to me. So, I don’t have enough data to even have an opinion.

    If you will recall last year at this time by now there were going to be tours by the ‘customer’ of the plant by now. Yet, now we hear that the customer hasn’t ever wanted anyone to see their technology – and possibly doesn’t even exist at all. I try really hard not to determine where truth lies on an emotional basis or by what I hope or wish for. So, I’m on the fence still – but I’m not happy about it.

  • nietesnie

    Gunnar – the Lugano test was very persuasive to me. Independent researchers, who are known and respected in their fields, testing a Rossi-built device, in their own space, that showed a COP greater than 1 for a month and resulted in nuclear changes to the fuel. That wasn’t ‘trust Rossi’. You can say that you’d like even more certainty, and maybe there were details of the testing procedure that were not 100% air-tight. But you must at least admit that Lugano was persuasive and a very good start.

  • Chris Marshalk

    I’m a believer in LENR 100%. I’m 100% that NASA is also hiding E.T caught on their cameras. I’m not kidding.

  • sam

    I might pass a grade 5 Science
    Exam but I put it at 50/50.

  • Edac

    I am 90% confident that LENR, in some form, will become a commercially valid technology at some point. Although it could be sooner, it would not surprise me if it takes 10 years or more to get a reliable product to market.

    I am only 60% confident that E-Cat will be that product (or one of those products) that makes it to market.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Wow, no wonder I get antagonized so much (1-24%, leaning closer to 24%). The board has completely changed from what it was a couple years ago, when most were still skeptics.

    • SG

      I too am somewhat surprised. It was an interesting result.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Wow, no wonder I get antagonized so much (1-24%, leaning closer to 24%). The board has completely changed from what it was a couple years ago, when most were still skeptics.

    • Andy Kumar

      I just voted 0%. There is still some hope for humanity! 1/7 of the people are at 0%.

    • Michael W Wolf

      I don’t know T, you seem like the antagonizor to me. 🙂

      • Teemu Soilamo

        Most of all to you and Engineer48. 😉

    • SG

      I too am somewhat surprised. It was an interesting result.

  • Andy Kumar

    // as it could indeed be a real and viable but for possible business, legal or political reasons it might not make it to market //
    .
    If it were real or proven at a basic science level even at nW levels, there is *nothing/nobody* in this world that can/want to stop it. This conspiracy mindset is just a defense mechanism for the Rossi fans to keep the dream alive.
    .
    Just in case you think that I am a skep, I was defending Rossi on this very blog until 2013 without really believing him fully. The skeps used to annoy me. I thought that at most Rossi may have some evidence of low level nuclear radiation like the navy SPAWAR guys used to claim (and that too, only because I DON’T know any nuclear physics. Nuclear physicists won’t even give Rossi that much benefit of doubt).
    .
    Rossi is just good at playing games. Darden and IH gave it a “moon shot” of a chance and Rossi screwed it up royally. $12M is nothing to IH. Rossi knows if he has something, he WILL HAVE to share it with IH. He took their money. He is legally obligated, there is no way around it. So why the charade?
    .
    Oh, and I have 1 year of physics and then some…

    • Redford

      “If it were real or proven at a basic science level even at nW levels,
      there is *nothing/nobody* in this world that can/want to stop it. This
      conspiracy mindset is just a defense mechanism for the Rossi fans to
      keep the dream alive.”

      1- You think the world is that way. You can’t know it is. We should refrain from making claims on things we can’t know for sure.

      2- Anyway, it’s not like Rossi’s the one to speak of conspiracy. Rather the opposite.

      3 eCat skeptics actually have to think that there is a conspiracy from quite a handful of person around Rossi – so many actually it seems an extreme hypothesis.

      Still I agree with you that people that think they know the world is
      prone to conspiracies (making the same error than you in my book, I
      guess, unless they have a very good case to prove it) are likely to give
      Rossi a free pass on things they would not otherwise.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The powers that be want their petro-dollar and carbon indulgences. So, the path of least resistance for LENR into commercial markets will first be the transmutation of elements. Power generation will follow later after Mitsubishi breaks the ice.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZl9l8nn1c

    • Alan DeAngelis

      PS

      Perhaps making “toys” would be less of a threat. Retrofit the turbojets of R/C airplanes with E-Cats. Then continue to make bigger and bigger “toys”.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRcYYb1dZ8

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        I want a toy that drives itself, has an inside couch and can load about 500kgs, plus skis.

    • Specifically, transmutation of radionuclides in nuclear waste, which is one of the most pressing problems facing humanity, and requires an immediate solution before the idiots in charge try and stuff it down deep holes in the ground. However, large amounts of heat energy would be produced by devices such as GEC’s ‘hybrid’ reactor, so the energy production side would be pretty obvious.

      • Omega Z

        Maybe the Biggest threat isn’t Rossi’s E-cat, but the consumer energy price/costs Rossi has bandied about. 2 or 3 cents per kilowatt to the consumer. The closet anyone else mentioned was Brillouin(about 6 cents per KW) and I think he was talking wholesale.

        Perhaps Rossi should have stated 10 cents or more per KW wholesale. At least until it was well on it’s way in the market. This goes back to my once upon a time- Energy companies don’t care what they sell you. Fossil energy or pixie dust. It doesn’t matter. It’s the profit margin.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The powers that be want their petro-dollar and carbon indulgences. So, the path of least resistance for LENR into commercial markets will first be the transmutation of elements. Power generation will follow later after Mitsubishi breaks the ice.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZl9l8nn1c

    • Alan DeAngelis

      PS

      Perhaps making “toys” would be less of a threat. Retrofit the turbojets of R/C airplanes with E-Cats. Then continue to make bigger and bigger “toys”.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLRcYYb1dZ8

      • we want LENR Fusione Fredda

        I want a toy that drives itself, has an inside couch and can load about 500kgs, plus skis.

        P.S.: for me, E-Cat is 100% viable and will soon be real.

    • Specifically, transmutation of radionuclides in nuclear waste, which is one of the most pressing problems facing humanity, and requires an immediate solution before the idiots in charge try and stuff it down deep holes in the ground. However, large amounts of heat energy would be produced by devices such as GEC’s ‘hybrid’ reactor, so the energy production side would be pretty obvious.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ge4F9L36mc

      • Omega Z

        Maybe the Biggest threat isn’t Rossi’s E-cat, but the consumer energy price/costs Rossi has bandied about. 2 or 3 cents per kilowatt to the consumer. The closet anyone else mentioned was Brillouin(about 6 cents per KW) and I think he was talking wholesale.

        Perhaps Rossi should have stated 10 cents or more per KW wholesale. At least until it was well on it’s way in the market. This goes back to my once upon a time- Energy companies don’t care what they sell you. Fossil energy or pixie dust. It doesn’t matter. It’s the profit margin.

  • I voted 1-24%. It seems clear that something is there, but it could be as feeble as the Casimir effect, as far as commercial utilization. I didn’t have a year of college physics, just two years of college chemistry.

  • Hank Mills

    I have absolutely zero doubt the E-Cat technology works in that a combination of nickel, lithium, and hydrogen can produce massive excess heat, including infinite COP in self sustain mode. When it comes to the test of the one megawatt plant, I suspect it likely produced high levels of excess heat, but I reserve final judgement until the ERV report is released.

  • Hank Mills

    I have absolutely zero doubt the E-Cat technology works in that a combination of nickel, lithium, and hydrogen can produce massive excess heat, including infinite COP in self sustain mode. When it comes to the test of the one megawatt plant, I suspect it likely produced high levels of excess heat, but I reserve final judgement until the ERV report is released.

    • roseland67

      Hank,

      Assuming the Ecat works as stated,
      Why do you think Andrea will only make
      1 MW units?

      • clovis ray

        /

      • Omega Z

        ->(Assuming the Ecat works as stated,
        ->(Why do you think Andrea will only make
        ->(1 MW units?

        Where did you get this misinformation?
        I have Never seen any reactor larger then 5 KW.

        In the early Bologna, Italy 1MW plant demo, the 10KW units appeared to be made up of 2 or 3 smaller cores of 3 KW to 5 KW cores. The latest appears to have been made of 15/20KW cores configured to be of 250 KW reactor tho we can’t be sure of that..

        The Hot cat reactors that we’ve seen including the Lugano Dog bone are 3.5 KW cores. The Quark is 100 watts. However, by adding or subtracting cores, you can build about any size that is practical.

  • Michael W Wolf

    Lenr is real. Ecat still needs Rossi babysitting. Godes and company may be closer to commercialization than Rossi. Mills is close too if he can get around the engineering problems. But for anyone to think fossil fuels are the be all end all of energy production is insane.

    • Axil Axil

      Re: Lenr is real. Ecat still needs Rossi babysitting.

      A failsafe control system must be developed and that is no easy job. It could take years for that system to be developed.

      • Gerard McEk

        It would be interesting to know what can go wrong with the Ecat. Will it melt down in case of a runaway? How long will that continue. Will it melt through through a concrete floor? It will surely evaporate all the water around it, so pressure relieves are needed. The level of failsafe control depends on the fault scenarios and as long there is no agreed theory everything is possible. That makes it difficult.

        • DrD

          I think the conditions to achieve a reaction are so hard to achieve that in the event of a loss of control and at the commencement of meltdown the reaction will cease. No doubt there will be a molten mess to cope with. AR did say he had run Quarks into failure so he’s well aware of what happens.

  • sam

    On Lenr forum I see this person opinion
    has not changed.
    Mary Yugo
    User Avatar
    Professional
    5 hours ago+1
    The chance of Rossi having table top fusion is about the same as the chance of a large, fat pig flying in through your living room window, wearing a saddle, and asking if you’d like a ride anywhere.

    • Hank Mills

      He is going to be proven wrong within a year when even more third parties replicate, a “guaranteed to work” formula is released, and the world wakes up to the reality of the E-Cat. Rossi does indeed have table top fusion.

      • sam

        Hank
        Maybe I will be the only one that feels this way but I thought M.Y comment was funny.
        LENR gets to darn serious sometimes.
        Regards
        Sam

  • sam

    On Lenr forum I see this person opinion
    has not changed.
    Mary Yugo
    User Avatar
    Professional
    5 hours ago+1
    The chance of Rossi having table top fusion is about the same as the chance of a large, fat pig flying in through your living room window, wearing a saddle, and asking if you’d like a ride anywhere.

    • Hank Mills

      He is going to be proven wrong within a year when even more third parties replicate, a “guaranteed to work” formula is released, and the world wakes up to the reality of the E-Cat. Rossi does indeed have table top fusion.

      • sam

        Hank
        Maybe I will be the only one that feels this way but I thought M.Y comment was funny.
        LENR gets to darn serious sometimes.
        Regards
        Sam

      • roseland67

        Hank,

        So, sometime in 2017?
        I’ll take the “over”.

        It is becoming increasingly difficult for me to believe anything from the Rossi camp about delivering a product.
        Hope you KNOW something more than the rest of us and are not not just guessing.

    • PappyYokum

      Yeah. His name is Oswald. We went for ice cream.

  • LEVI506

    I predicted back when Ponds and Fleischmann first announced “cold fusion” that this could be the most important development in the 20th century. Now over 25 years later I watch it develop. I never expected that the jealousy of the scientific world would almost kill this project, but it almost did. Thanks to Dr. Rossi, it’s back on track. I used to live only a few miles from the Philo T. Farnsworth museum in Idaho near the INEL (Discovered TV) and I fear like Philo, the monetary gains of this project will be reaped by someone other then Dr. Rossi. The big boys are after the power and unless he’s incredibly lucky, he’ll only get pennies for his work.

  • Axil Axil

    Re: Lenr is real. Ecat still needs Rossi babysitting.

    A failsafe control system must be developed and that is no easy job. It could take years for that system to be developed.

    • Gerard McEk

      It would be interesting to know what can go wrong with the Ecat. Will it melt down in case of a runaway? How long will that continue. Will it melt through through a concrete floor? It will surely evaporate all the water around it, so pressure relieves are needed. The level of failsafe control depends on the fault scenarios and as long there is no agreed theory everything is possible. That makes it difficult.

      • DrD

        I think the conditions to achieve a reaction are so hard to achieve that in the event of a loss of control and at the commencement of meltdown the reaction will cease. No doubt there will be a molten mess to cope with. AR did say he had run Quarks into failure so he’s well aware of what happens.

  • Teemu Soilamo

    Most of all to you and Engineer48. 😉

  • Your question: How confident are you that it is a real and valuable technology?
    Yes for E-Cat from Rossi mainly for the heat, also for BLP and for Steorn Orbo for electricity, and for Brillouin.
    LENR field has became LENRIA, a mondial association where NASA, BOEING, AIRBUS, DARPA, design a new word:
    http://www.lenria.org/#!ecosystem/ckvr

  • Mike Rion

    Rossi understands that no matter how complete he allows it to be tested there will still be many skeptics who throw doubt on it. He has decided at this point to put all of his effort into perfecting it for commercialization.

  • Redford

    “Commercially Viable” means way more than the mere existence of the “Rossi effect”.If you have an uptime of 95% and needs a Rossi level expert intervention once every two years, you’re still far from being “commercially viable”, and that’s for the industrial product, not the mainstream market. On the top of this there are all the doubts on the ERV thing added to an history of perpetually delayed commercial proof. I value all the other news, russians, chineses, MFMP who all bring a net of confirmation on the effect. Still,
    I had to vote 1 – 24 % for “commercially viable”.

  • Redford

    “Commercially Viable” means way more than the mere existence of the “Rossi effect”.If you have an uptime of 95% and needs a Rossi level expert intervention once every two years, you’re still far from being “commercially viable”, and that’s for the industrial product, not the mainstream market. On the top of this there are all the doubts on the ERV thing added to an history of perpetually delayed commercial proof. I value all the other news, russians, chineses, MFMP who all bring a net of confirmation on the effect. Still,
    I had to vote 1 – 24 % for “commercially viable”.

    • Mark Levan

      the best of commercial operations , even those with 95% up time spend most of that down time with expert intervention ( in the form of preventive maintenance ,calibration and parts that won’t make it to the next maintenance interval) once the control strategy is worked out ( and after a year of operation they should have plenty of data to do this) . My though , 1-2 years of ironing out minor difficulties that limit the operation to ~ 75% up time or maybe even a little more at which point in time it should be down to PM schedules .

      • Redford

        There is “expert” and “inventor level expert”. Rossi has implied his specific presence was needed intensively for the test to work. From an industrial perspective, that’s a significant issue. It can means it’s years away from being market ready. (not mentioning the usual skeptic hypothesis)

  • Gerard McEk

    I voted 75-99%. How much I want to believe AR’s words, I still do not think he has proven it beyond any doubt yet. It seems so easy to me how such a black box test can be done: Just deliver an Ecat to a properly qualified group of engineers and scientists or MFMP. Let them hook it up to whatever is required (e.g. power and water supplies). Let them test it as much as they want… So why hasn’t AR allowed for that yet? That question makes me doubt a bit, but I can’t wait until the Ecat hits the market.

  • Gerard McEk

    I voted 75-99%. How much I want to believe AR’s words, I still do not think he has proven it beyond any doubt yet. It seems so easy to me how such a black box test can be done: Just deliver an Ecat to a properly qualified group of engineers and scientists or MFMP. Let them hook it up to whatever is required (e.g. power and water supplies). Let them test it as much as they want… So why hasn’t AR allowed for that yet? That question makes me doubt a bit, but I can’t wait until the Ecat hits the market.

    • Michael W Wolf

      If the skeptics weren’t so eager to libel Rossi, we wouldn’t sound as sure of ourselves and would utter sentiments like yours Gerard.

  • omelette

    Lenr is almost certainly real, but as for being a viable technology, who knows! I was convinced at one stage that Keshe’s Magravs were for real – I mean, they were even for sale, albeit briefly – which shows how much I know!

  • hunfgerh

    My unwavering faith in power-generating equipment with COP> 3 is based on the basis of a plausible theory CF = (e / n-capture inside of PdLiH systems). As well as the performed synthesis of the required systems in the nanometer range and detecting their superconductivity.

  • hunfgerh

    My unwavering faith in power-generating equipment with COP> 3 is based on the basis of a plausible theory CF = (e / n-capture inside of PdLiH systems). As well as the performed synthesis of the required systems in the nanometer range and detecting their superconductivity.

  • wpj

    Strange that the kit, controller and fuel were made and supplied by IH rather than Rossi- they produced all the bits. According to Eng48, they have also “mislaid” everything from the test.

  • f sedei

    To me, the negative opinions are far less convincing than the positive opinions and known facts.It’s all a matter of time.I hope we are all around to see it happen. In the meantime, keep the learned opinions and thoughts alive. This forum is at least as good as a university class, only with personality plus.

  • f sedei

    To me, the negative opinions are far less convincing than the positive opinions and known facts.It’s all a matter of time.I hope we are all around to see it happen. In the meantime, keep the learned opinions and thoughts alive. This forum is at least as good as a university class, only with personality plus.

  • Gyor

    Hopeful, but causious.

  • Gerard McEk

    At this moment (457 votes), on average 50.3 % think it is commercially viable.
    Usually the gut-feeling of the majority is right, but I am not sure that would be true for the voters on this site.
    EDIT:
    Above I forgot to include also the voters below 50%.
    Now on average over all the percentage ranges 54% think it is viable.
    (12 August 539 voters)

    • Buck

      ???? at 471 votes, those voting at >= 50% account for 60.9% of all votes.

      And, I’m showing my bias when I note that since last night those voting 0% are proportionately surging ahead . . . No proof, but I don’t think the MYs of the world like the idea of commercially viable technology.

      • Gerard McEk

        Of these about 60% think that it is on average 75% a viable device.

    • Michael W Wolf

      The poll is a bit cryptic. If there was a commercially viable LENR device, wouldn’t it be on the market already? I really voted for whether in the future it will be commercially viable. Am I not understanding what commercially viable is? If the 1mw ecat produced the heat used to produce a product, then I would consider that commercially viable if Rossi didn’t have to be there. Normal people must be able to keep the reaction going to be viable I think.

  • Dave Lawton

    This could be useful light weight shielding.

    http://newatlas.com/metal-foam-lightweight-radiation-shielding/38515/

  • Dave Lawton

    This could be useful light weight shielding.

    http://newatlas.com/metal-foam-lightweight-radiation-shielding/38515/

  • nietsnie

    <<>>

    Not really. Rossi wasn’t even in town for most of the test. The researchers had their own instruments collecting data. The power going in was controlled by them. The energy coming out was measured by them using their own equipment.

    <<>>

    I grant – that’s a data whose chain of custody can be quibbled over. But – not very much.

    <<>>

    That the entire team would risk their professional future in order to participate in a Rossi fraud would be an *enormous* conspiracy. It only seems possible if you absolutely refuse to believe the evidence under any circumstances on general principle. And, of course, if that is true – there’s no use discussing it with you.

    <<>>

    So, you’re saying that first they all actively participated in a fraud – and then they failed to produce the same results using their own home made device and reported their failure? What a clever ploy by them!

  • Brokeeper

    In the business world, the often quoted, “Build it, and they will come”, derived from the misquoted “Build it, and he will come “of the famous movie Field of Dreams, is often interpreted with faith in the future driven by a product’s proof and necessity rather than a nostalgic hope.

    The E-Cat has certainly survived thus far the rigors of constant scrutiny and verification to the point the risk is mitigated enough to warrant market development. Its obvious necessity far outreaches any potential risk in resolving this earth’s choking air and poverty stricken societies that is costing many millions of lives, trillions of dollars of spent resources and dire consequences.

    So do I believe in the E-Cat as a Commercially Valid Technology? YES, not only because of its proven existence but because a huge void exists begging to be filled. So I too say:

    “Build it, and they WILL come”

  • Brokeeper

    In the business world, the often quoted, “Build it, and they will come”, derived from the misquoted “Build it, and he will come” of the famous movie Field of Dreams, is often interpreted with faith in the future driven by a product’s proof and necessity rather than a nostalgic hope.

    The E-Cat has certainly survived thus far the rigors of constant scrutiny and verification to the point the risk is mitigated enough to warrant market development. Its obvious necessity far outreaches any potential risk in resolving this earth’s choking air and poverty stricken societies that is costing many millions of lives, trillions of dollars of spent resources and dire consequences.

    So do I believe in the E-Cat as a Commercially Valid Technology? 100% Yes, not only because of its proven existence but because a huge void exists begging to be filled. So I too say: “Build it, and they WILL come”

  • jimbo92107

    Seeing is believing. So far Rossi has produced nothing tangible but metal boxes, words and paper. Everything else has been carefully hidden from view. Hocus pokus! In fact, What appears more and more likely is that Rossi is perpetrating a long, complicated fraud.

    Are there precedents for this? Sure!

    Ancient astronauts
    Healing crystals
    Alien abductions
    Perpetual motion generators

    …and on and on. Every one of these fake sciences makes money from some poor rube. Got a preference? You can find a gag for just about anybody. The conceptual domain between pseudo-science and utter fantasy is full of niches, but they all share two things in common: a good, cohesive line of bull, and somebody that wants to believe something too good to be true.

    My point is not just that pseudo-scientific cons are all massive wastes of time and money, but that you cannot convince the victims of these scams that they are scams. Ever try to argue somebody out of astrology? Hint: She won’t appreciate it.

    I’m not even saying that LENR isn’t real. That’s actually beside the point. What I am saying is that Andrea Rossi looks like a complete fake, a snarky Italian con artist running a long, never-ending con job, and every fanboy he pulls into his web of lies is helping him snare rich investors into his con.

    Hey, I could even be wrong, but it sure doesn’t look like it at the moment. Rossi still hasn’t created a single verifiable product, despite years of claims and promises. If somebody here can show me a verifiable, working Rossi LENR product, I will send that person a hundred dollars. That’s not even a bet. But please, don’t just show me a photo of a box. That’s what Rossi does.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yes, unlike the hot fusion program.

      • jimbo92107

        No, not like the hot fusion program. Rossi’s act is more like The Music Man. The phenomenon of hot fusion is an undisputed scientific fact. Harnessing it for producing energy is extremely difficult, but nobody disputes that squeezing and heating hydrogen can fuse it into helium. It’s been done lots of times. We even have bombs that work on that principle.

        Do we have scientific consensus that LENR is real? No. Have we seen indisputable demonstrations of LENR? No. Is there even a peer reviewed theory or a can’t miss recipe? Nope, and Nope.

        Nothing but nope so far in LENR technology. I’m done holding my breath for yup.

        • Michael W Wolf

          Safe fusion promise, with billions of the public’s money. Where are the results for the money? Fanboys like you perpetuate our pockets being picked by lying sneaking fund grubbing seat warmers with fat budgets. You are basically being conned and bragging about it.

          • jimbo92107

            Yet here you are, worshiping Andrea Rossi’s magical crystals. I’m not even a fan of hot fusion, you’re just assuming that. I look for stuff that works, and Rossi hasn’t shown that his stuff works. That’s why his butt is going to court.

          • Jimbo, perhaps it has slipped your mind that Rossi initiated the court action, not IH.

          • jimbo92107

            Because Rossi didn’t deliver what he promised, IH didn’t want to pay him any more money. I never said Rossi wasn’t clever. Everything he has done fits the profile of a clever con man. Nothing he has done so far fits the profile of an honest inventor with a real product. Rossi continually dangles the bare minimum information out there, just enough to keep people hooked, but never enough to confirm that his “technology” actually works.

            I am now merely predicting that Rossi will continue to do what he has already been doing for years. He will continue to claim progress, yet never reveal his “customer.” Everybody that “confirms” his tech will turn out to be some buddy of his from back in Italy. He will also continue to change his stories about what his tech is, as he did with the Quark. What size is it again? Where’s the factory? Who’s the customer? Who, what, where, when, how. You won’t get any straight answers from Rossi, because that would give up the game.

          • Michael W Wolf

            I am not worshiping. I am not even 100 percent sure of the LENR phenomenon. But as important as LENR would be for humanity, I support it until someone can disprove it. For you guys to come out so sure of yourselves is sickening. You libel people at a whim. I don’t care if you are a fan of fusion. You defended it, I corrected you.

          • jimbo92107

            Does this mean you’ll take my $100 dollar bet?

          • roseland67

            Michael,
            I would suggest that once someone proves it, you support it, not the other way around.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          The Mitsubishi transmutations are solid evidence for the reality of LENR.
          http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iNy47-PKxoQ/T2ziOYJ2RvI/AAAAAAAASLo/OcvAZx1OnVo/s1600/LENRJapantransmute.png

          • jimbo92107

            If so, then why isn’t Mitsubishi (a real live Japanese engineering company) building LENR reactors? No money in it? Big Oil conspiracy? Simply transmuting tungsten into platinum would be worth billions of dollars. Why don’t they run with it??

          • Mats002
          • roseland67

            Mats,
            Are you suggesting that, in time, Mitsubishi will be transmuting elements for profit?
            I mean, they could be doing it now,
            (If it worked as suggested), behind closed doors, in one of their own labs, and just cranking out platinum and selling it, no one knows where they are getting it, just sell platinum.
            But they’re not?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            You’re right jimbo. They can make billions. But it’s even better than that. The precious metals are just the ash from very exothermic nuclear reactions. For example, I crunched the numbers for the tungsten, W to osmium, Os reaction.

            W(184) + 4d > Os(188) 21.69 MeV (a hell of a lot of energy)

            Check this out jimbo. It looks like they are scaling this up. I think big thing are happening below the radar.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZl9l8nn1c

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Pardon the double post and typo.
            W(184) + 2d > Os(188) 21.69 MeV

          • jimbo92107

            Can’t wait to see it… the products, of course. Meanwhile, I’ve seen about enough ill-focused pics of jars, boxes and tubes. I’ve seen plenty of flowcharts showing how stuff goes from tubes to other tubes. And the charts? Love ’em, but they don’t prove anything other than people can make charts. Don’t we all love wiggly lines that go up…

          • Alan DeAngelis

            You’re right jimbo. They can make billions. But it’s even better than that. The precious metals are just the ash from very exothermic nuclear reactions. For example, I crunched the numbers for the tungsten, W to platinum, Pt reaction.

            W(182) + 4d > Pt(190) 41.6 MeV (a hell of a lot of energy)

            Check this out jimbo. It looks like they are scaling this up. I think big thing are happening below the radar.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzZl9l8nn1c

          • Albert D. Kallal

            Mitsubishi not achieved commercial outputs – but they have dabbled with this technology. So has Hitachi.

            So the “list” of those dabbling in LENR is quite long. And yes as pointed out several major industrial companies have dabbled in the past.

            France is what 80%+ nuclear powered. They had a program looking at LENR around the year 2000 and were obtaining positive results. However, one day everyone looked around at each other and stated why are we spending money on something that will put most of us out of their jobs? The French nuclear industry provides a huge number of good jobs. So why spend money on something that will replace most of the people working in the nuclear industry with money from the very industry that feeds them? You think the coal or oil industry going to spend money on LENR?

            Of course the issue is not that LENR has quite a colorful history of success. I think anyone who’s spent time researching the issue will conclude that LENR is real. And there are several high quality companies who achieved success.

            Brillion has 3rd party tests carried out by Stanford research institute. I don’t think you can get a better endorsing then what Brillion has done.

            The simple matter is most research institutes don’t touch “cold fusion” since they consider it junk science.

            I mean, professor Hagelson at MIT taught a cold fusion 101 course just a few years ago. While the course is non audited, each student gets a small LENR device that clearly works.

            And then there is the famous 60 minutes “cold fusion” is hot again story done in 2009. This is an interesting video and MOST astounding in that they asked the American Physics Society for an independent physicist who was “skeptical” of LENR, and then sent him to a lab in Israel doing work. This well trained scientist came back with full admitting that LENR is real – he was astonished! (he too thought it was junk science). If you not seen it, it quite short – here is a link:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvaX3vRtRA

            Then of recent we had several LENR papers and observations of the LENR heat effect from Russia and China.

            So the “list” of those seeing and achieving LENR is really quite long.

            The real issue however is none have achieved commercial outputs.

            I mean, we have rockets, and we know they exist – so why are you not taking trips to the moon – you could make billions.

            The wright brothers faced much the same skepticism. Many people stated if these bozo brothers really have a flying machine, then they would be billionaires. It simply was not that easy and having a flying machine did not make you billions.

            Of course with Rossi, while it likely he has something, we don’t know how commercial viable what he has is. While IH may have been greedy but it is rather hard to imagine IH would get “tangled” up in some legal squabbling over some terms of a test if the device really did have a COP of 50+.

            The old saying “show me the beef” comes to mind here.

            If Rossi has what he claims, then billions will follow him. And the same goes for Brillion – they have working reactors, but questions remain as to commercial viability.

            The simple matter is Rossi not reached that point in which he can easily convince people of what he has. Until such time Rossi can then skepticism surrounding Rossi will continue.

            The key here is to NOT get confused over the existence of LENR – that’s rather easy to accept.

            The only remaining puzzle part is when LENR becomes commercially viable – that’s not been demonstrated to a high degree of satisfaction in most people’s eyes.

            Regards,
            Albert D. Kallal
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • clovis ray

    /

  • enantiomer2000

    skeptical.

  • enantiomer2000

    skeptical.

  • nietsnie

    Frank – I’m wondering if the poll app prevents multiple votes from the same user? This issue is emotionally charged enough that ballot box stuffing would not be out of the question…

    • Frank Acland

      I believe that the app does not allow repeat votes from the same IP address, but I suppose if you really wanted you could find ways around that.

      • GiveADogABone

        My IP changes every day because I shut down my router overnight and it has to reconnect to the network in the morning.

  • nietsnie

    Frank – I’m wondering if the poll app prevents multiple votes from the same user? This issue is emotionally charged enough that ballot box stuffing would not be out of the question…

    • Michael W Wolf

      He who trusts no one, can’t be trusted. I am confident Rossi supporters vote once. It is the skeptics that I am concerned about. People that continually accuse others of bad things, are usually guilty of doing bad things.

      • nietsnie

        LOL! So you can be trusted because you trust non-skeptics?

    • Frank Acland

      I believe that the app does not allow repeat votes from the same IP address, but I suppose if you really wanted you could find ways around that.

      • GiveADogABone

        My IP changes every day because I shut down my router overnight and it has to reconnect to the network in the morning.

  • Mats002

    50-74 because:
    There are a lot of data out there; pictures, patents, contracts, claims, scientific witness that have been scrutinised by many people, of which many are professionals and scientists.

    The chance for a scam to survive this far is very tiny.

    Truth is often found in middle ground. I would not be surprised over COP 4.601 as an average over a year, still having stability/control issues.

    • Omega Z

      I agree and everyone should keep in mind. Rossi still stands by the COP>6
      Only on the Blogs does anyone claim COP>50.

      • Mats002

        A public trial that ends up with IH/Darden have to pay part of the 89M$ might the best for all parties;
        – IH/Darden would be right to invest in LENR/E-Cat because it shows to be a smart business move.
        – Rossi would be vindicated
        – Old LENR would be vindicated
        – Maybe MSM opens up about it

        Total win for IH/Darden would make them loosers in front of their investors and partners. Both Rossi and LENR would be loosers.

        Total win for Rossi is good for all, including IH/Darden because they appearently did a smart business move and can continue their quest in LENR land.

  • Mats002

    50-74 because:
    There are a lot of data out there; pictures, patents, contracts, claims, scientific witness that have been scrutinised by many people, of which many are professionals and scientists.

    The chance for a scam to survive this far is very tiny.

    Truth is often found in middle ground. I would not be surprised over COP 4.601 as an average over a year, still having stability/control issues.

    • Omega Z

      I agree and everyone should keep in mind. Rossi still stands by the COP>6
      Only on the Blogs does anyone claim COP>50.

      • Mats002

        A public trial that ends up with IH/Darden have to pay part of the 89M$ might the best for all parties;
        – IH/Darden would be right to invest in LENR/E-Cat because it shows to be a smart business move.
        – Rossi would be vindicated
        – Old LENR would be vindicated
        – Maybe MSM opens up about it

        Total win for IH/Darden would make them loosers in front of their investors and partners. Both Rossi and LENR would be loosers.

        Total win for Rossi is good for all, including IH/Darden because they appearently did a smart business move and can continue their quest in LENR land.

      • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

        What happened in the Doral plant, I do not know, though evidence is beginning to appear. However, I can see and confirm what is happening in Rossi v. Darden, and on the blogs, and it is not uncommon to see claims like that above, that are preposterous, stated as if they were fact.

        “Only on the Blogs does anyone claim COP>50”

        From Rossi’s Complaint:

        “71. On February 15, 2016, the Guaranteed Performance test was successfully
        concluded. The E-Cat Unit had successfully operated for more than three hundred fifty (350) days out of a four hundred (400) day period at a level substantially greater than the level achieved during the Validation Test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period.”

  • jimbo92107

    Yet here you are, worshiping Andrea Rossi’s magical crystals. I’m not even a fan of hot fusion, you’re just assuming that. I look for stuff that works, and Rossi hasn’t shown that his stuff works. That’s why his butt is going to court.

    • Jimbo, perhaps it has slipped your mind that Rossi initiated the court action, not IH.

      • jimbo92107

        Because Rossi didn’t deliver what he promised, IH didn’t want to pay him any more money. I never said Rossi wasn’t clever. Everything he has done fits the profile of a clever con man. Nothing he has done so far fits the profile of an honest inventor with a real product. Rossi continually dangles the bare minimum information out there, just enough to keep people hooked, but never enough to confirm that his “technology” actually works.

        I am now merely predicting that Rossi will continue to do what he has already been doing for years. He will continue to claim progress, yet never reveal his “customer.” Everybody that “confirms” his tech will turn out to be some buddy of his from back in Italy. He will also continue to change his stories about what his tech is, as he did with the Quark. What size is it again? Where’s the factory? Who’s the customer? Who, what, where, when, how. You won’t get any straight answers from Rossi, because that would give up the game.

        • nietsnie

          LOL! So you can be trusted because you trust non-skeptics?

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Pardon the double post and typo.
            W(184) + 2d > Os(188) 21.69 MeV

  • How is it any different to what CERN Scientists is doing.
    To what The LENR Scientists and others are doing?
    Both groups are delving in areas that neither understand.
    If both groups make the discoveries that they think/hope are there.
    Then life as we know it, will not be the same. (captain)

  • roseland67

    The dozens of articles like this about new oil and new nuclear plants being built are what support my opinion of Rossi and LENR being nowhere near introduction.
    IF, LENR was even remotely close, then these giant global companies would not be spending $ on old tech, but would be investing in LENR.

    I still follow ECW but Rossi is simply not the guy

    http://fortune.com/2016/07/06/chevron-oil-kazakhstan/

    • Omega Z

      Articles like that mean absolutely nothing.

      Should tomorrow come and MIT, Cal tech and a dozen other world renowned Universities pronounce Rossi’s E-cat real and viable, it will take years to have an impact on energy needs.

      As to Oil, At least 20 and likely 30 years to replace the worlds existing auto fleet. This would require a couple thousand new wells a month for a long time and only gradually declining. A new power plant commissioned during the MIT, Cal tech public announcement will likely be near end of life cycle before replaced by LENR. The task is that huge. And Imagine had they stopped with the conventional after Rossi’s 1st public demo. Everyone was certain all Fossil energy would be replaced in 2 years. The world would be in dire straits.

      Never count you chicks before they hatch…

      • roseland67

        Omega,

        Well, I disagree, I think articles like above do mean something, and I think it would NOT take years to impact current energy markets, I think “futures markets” would react immediately to MIT/NASA/Cal Tech etc news that indicated a new, non carbon based LENR form of energy.
        If I am on the board of an oil company or a nuke based utility, and KNEW, LENR based energy was inevitable, I would prepare by weaning my energy investments accordingly, NOT, by spending billions and maybe trillions of dollars on investments that may be worth very little in the event that Ecat is in fact ready for production.

        And I suggest the same to you about counting your Ecat chickens before they hatch. I believe these incubations will take many, many years and may not “hatch” in your lifetime.

        We’ll see

    • help_lenr

      Your arguments are “theoretic”.

      Shifting from one complicated technology to a new complicated takes decades. Your mistake is that LENR is a simple technology which can be materialised fast if true.

      Today Solar electricity (which is much simpler and accepted than LENR) cost less than half price of fossil electricity. But it will take decades until energy economy will shift _massively_ to solar energy (domestic solar energy might be the first to shift within next 5-10 years, for those who have private 30 m^2 area exposed to sun).

      • roseland67

        Help,

        I guess they’re spending, building, processing and distributing now and are preparing to increase all above, to be that is not theoretical.

        Rossi? Well not so much

  • jimbo92107

    Does this mean you’ll take my $100 dollar bet?

  • HS61AF91

    enthusiasm for LENR, vit C, DHEA, Melatonin, and exercise help!

  • Mats002

    What if?

    What if Rossi is a big lier on internet? Is it plausible he would get away with it for more than 5 years?

    This is a subject of it’s own worth to dig into. See this article:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/09/the-way-we-lie-now/309431/

    In this context I found this list; top 15 liers in history: http://mamiverse.com/biggest-liars-history-60665/

    If IH/Darden and Swedish Public Service Radio are right – would Rossi qualify to the list? What psychological profile fit in his case?

    • sam

      I think A.R. is steady and honest enough.
      I wish he was stronger at thinking
      outside of the box in business disputes.

      • Mats002

        Hi Sam, what data say that A.R. is steady and honest? He seams to become ‘hot’ sometimes and he has spent time in prison.

        • sam

          I use my analysis of all the data to come up with my opinion.
          A.R. came from the tail end
          of a generation that had some awful tempers.
          He spent time in prison for
          tax evasion when thousands
          of God fearing men got away
          with it.
          But God was watching over
          him and put it in A.R. mind
          to study C.F. In Prison.

      • sam

        A.R. & T.D might have a better chance of settling with these people.
        http://www.armstronglawyers.com/business-disputes/

    • Gerald

      To fool technical people(lugano) that are in my opinion skeptic by nature would make him a genius. For me he has the benifit of doubt, the Petrol dragon saga I don’t count. His idea’s were good and in that time in Italie mafia controlled the waste disposal and were tied with politics. I’m not well enough educated to know his proces was commercial viable but it wasn’t for sure the best time to introduce back then. I can’t help it, but when I see Rossi in interviews I see a very a guy with a goal not a scam artist.

  • Mats002

    What if?

    What if Rossi is a big lier on internet? Is it plausible he would get away with it for more than 5 years?

    This is a subject of it’s own worth to dig into. See this article:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/09/the-way-we-lie-now/309431/

    In this context I found this list; top 15 liers in history: http://mamiverse.com/biggest-liars-history-60665/

    If IH/Darden and Swedish Public Service Radio are right – would Rossi qualify to the list? What psychological profile fit in his case?

    • sam

      I think A.R. is steady and honest enough.
      I wish he was stronger at thinking
      outside of the box in business disputes.

      • Mats002

        Hi Sam, what data say that A.R. is steady and honest? He seams to become ‘hot’ sometimes and he has spent time in prison.

        • sam

          I use my analysis of all the data to come up with my opinion.
          A.R. came from the tail end
          of a generation that had some awful tempers.
          He spent time in prison for
          tax evasion when thousands
          of God fearing men got away
          with it.
          But God was watching over
          him and put it in A.R. mind
          to study C.F. In Prison.

        • help_lenr

          Rossi didn’t spend _one minute in Jail_. This is probably a false claim and probably a propaganda against him, no single solid evidence for being in jail, only rossi’s bad english which use the word “jail” instead of “arrest”.

          Arrest before trial is used if the accusations are “heavy” and there is a risk that the person accused will destroy evidence. Arrest does not prove anything about honesty.

          Rossi was evicted in the trial of all accusations except some minor accusations about tax payments, then only payed low fines for the tax felony.

          His tax felony can be understood and forgiven if we consider
          the situation: a sudden collapse of his multimillions business because of the false accusations (and sizing his industrial facilities).

          The evil was the corruption in Italy and the involvement of the Mafia who took advantage from the situation (and probably is behind these false accusations).

          • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

            According to An Impossible Invention, Rossi was arrested on March 23, 1995. He was released six months later. This was “detention” pending trial. Legal process continued but he left Italy for the U.S.

            In May, 2000, he was arrested again, and released in June, 2001. According to Lewan, there were 56 legal processes against him, five led to conviction or the case was time-barred. Time already served in detention was deducted from sentences and the rest was either served in house arrest or on probation.

            Again, according to Lewan, “Rossi was never convicted of fraud.” The convictions were “mostly for accounting fraud in connection with bankruptices” plus “environmental crimes.” (Accounting fraud is a distinct crime from fraud and should not be confused with it.)

            The Mafia may or may not have been involved in Rossi’s troubles in Italy, but the claims that he spent time in prison are not coming from the Mafia, they are fact and not contested.

            Rossi was acquitted of many of the charges, but was convicted on some and did spent time in jail for these (essentially time served while in detention).

            My analysis: Rossi has again shown that he is quite incautious about legal technicalities. Many people can get away with this when operating on an “ordinary level,” though even then it can be quite dangerous. But operating on a multi-million dollar level, the risk becomes very high. Rossi refused investment in Petrol Dragon from large corporations; had he accepted partnership, he probably would have had support and protection. And, of course, they would insist that he follow legal counsel. And if he betrayed them, they would become enemies.

            People who fear betrayal often betray. It’s human psychology.

      • sam

        A.R. & T.D might have a better chance of settling with these people.
        http://www.armstronglawyers.com/business-disputes/

    • Andy Kumar

      What if? Rossi took $12M from IH and then paid them $1K/day for 350 days from their own money, then he gets to keep more than $11M. That is pretty good Ponzi scheme.

      • sam

        If I.H. Took millions from Chinese and British investors
        and get out of paying $89
        million is a good one to.
        I wonder what they think of
        the situation.

        • Mats002

          I bought into Woodford which ended up investing in IH/Darden more than E-Cat :/

          I am probably fooled, but who fooled me the most?

          We’ll see in a year…

      • Michael W Wolf

        Rossi said that money was still all there. And with IH accusations of tax evasion, I am pretty sure it is, because that is the way you keep it sheltered from taxes. So it would be JM products paying IH. Again you libel someone without proof of guilt. That is pretty slimy man.

    • Gerald

      To fool technical people(lugano) that are in my opinion skeptic by nature would make him a genius. For me he has the benifit of doubt, the Petrol dragon saga I don’t count. His idea’s were good and in that time in Italie mafia controlled the waste disposal and were tied with politics. I’m not well enough educated to know his proces was commercial viable but it wasn’t for sure the best time to introduce back then. I can’t help it, but when I see Rossi in interviews I see a very a guy with a goal not a scam artist.

  • Omega Z

    Articles like that mean absolutely nothing.

    Should tomorrow come and MIT, Cal tech and a dozen other world renowned Universities pronounce Rossi’s E-cat real and viable, it will take years to have an impact on energy needs.

    As to Oil, At least 20 and likely 30 years to replace the worlds existing auto fleet. This would require a couple thousand new wells a month for a long time and only gradually declining. A new power plant commissioned during the MIT, Cal tech public announcement will likely be near end of life cycle before replaced by LENR. The task is that huge. And Imagine had they stopped with the conventional after Rossi’s 1st public demo. Everyone was certain all Fossil energy would be replaced in 2 years. The world would be in dire straits.

    Never count you chicks before they hatch…

    • roseland67

      Omega,

      Well, I disagree, I think articles like above do mean something, and I think it would NOT take years to impact current energy markets, I think “futures markets” would react immediately to MIT/NASA/Cal Tech etc news that indicated a new, non carbon based LENR form of energy.
      If I am on the board of an oil company or a nuke based utility, and KNEW, LENR based energy was inevitable, I would prepare by weaning my energy investments accordingly, NOT, by spending billions and maybe trillions of dollars on investments that may be worth very little in the event that Ecat is in fact ready for production.

      And I suggest the same to you about counting your Ecat chickens before they hatch. I believe these incubations will take many, many years and may not “hatch” in your lifetime.

      We’ll see

  • jimbo92107

    Can’t wait to see it… the products, of course. Meanwhile, I’ve seen about enough ill-focused pics of jars, boxes and tubes. I’ve seen plenty of flowcharts showing how stuff goes from tubes to other tubes. And the charts? Love ’em, but they don’t prove anything other than people can make charts. Don’t we all love wiggly lines that go up…

  • Where’s the poll? I don’t see it.

  • roseland67

    Help,

    I guess they’re spending, building, processing and distributing now and are preparing to increase all above, to be that is not theoretical.

    Rossi? Well not so much