Rossi: No Further Black Box Testing

Andrea Rossi responded to a suggestion on the Journal of Nuclear Physics by Gerard McEk that Rossi do a black box test of an E-Cat plant with a well known testing company to shoe convincing proof that the E-Cat is real, and open up the large scale commercial market.

Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
August 12, 2016 at 6:37 AM
Gerard McEk:
At the dawn of the computer era only a small percentage of the persons thought that personal computers were going to become a product: most gurus of cybernetics thought that to bring computers to households was a ridiculous idea. To change the game have not been tests, but products in the market.
The tests we made have been sound, honest and made by experts and further testing will just be a loss of time for us and a mine of information for the competition. My goal is not to have high rate polls, because I have not to be elected on the base of what I say or shw, as a politician, I have to sell products. What I need are products, not papers at this point. The sole tests that are useful, at this point, are tests that we can make with full knowledge of what happens indide the reactors, to consolidate the technology in this R&D phase, not tests with black boxes to raise the polls positively. We already achieved the goal to be able to commercialize the industrial plants, albeit still in a pioneer-market context and are close to expand the industrial market for such industrial plants.
The answer to your question can be synthesized as follows: once our products will be in the market, everybody will be able to buy them and make all the tests he wants.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

P.S.
By the way, I am very surprised that on EW we got 55% positive: I thought that the positive expectation, after all the stupidities put around, could not be more than 10%, he,he,he.

I would like to see Rossi do the kind of test that Gerard suggests here. I do think that some kind of black box test would help his case in court. I think that there will be expert witnesses called by the IH team to try and convince the jury that there was no excess heat produced in the 1 year test and a working plant would certainly be strong evidence in favor of Rossi’s claims.

However, I don’t really expect it to happen before a commercial rollout. Rossi has always been concerned about losing time on testing that he sees as unnecessary, and in providing any possible advantage to competitors.

I think the best we can hope for is that one of the “pioneer” customers in this early stage of production will be willing to report on their experiences with an e-cat plant, but we can’t be sure that will happen, since we don’t know who these customers are or what their intentions are.


  • Steve Swatman

    Mr Rossi has a plan and a dream, I congratulate his conviction, and hope to see his ecats, quarkx etc on the market long before the court case is finished and I for one admire his sheer audacity.

    • Mike Rion

      Here, here. Rossi is the current day version of Tesla, except, unlike Tesla, he may well end up profiting from his invention.

  • Frost*

    There are summons docs posted on 11th August at https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

    Has anyone read them yet?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      There is an Amended Answer (document 30), all the exhibits (again?) and what appears to be one new exhibit (Exhibit 26) and document 31 is a collection of proposed summons, apparently to the same parties as already summoned as part of document 29. I have not studied the Amended Answer yet. However, from Exhibit 26, there will be socks lying about, knocked off. the Amended Answer and Exhibit 26 are on newvortex as before.

  • theBuckWheat

    As much as I want to cheer Rossi on, it is waaay past the time when he allows some third parties to have a device to evaluate and confirm for the public on their functional aspects.

  • menos50

    I am afraid I must disagree with the ” testers “… nothing succeeds like success and success in manufacturing and business is money and money doesn’t normally go to waste on non-performance, at least not for long. Since LENR is a product of tenacity in a very hostile R&D environment, I believe that Rossi’s decision to produce is the correct one. All the deniers in the world will mean little in the face of working equipment spreading in the business world, followed by wide spread personal use.

    • Mike Rion

      I agree. I’m surprised that he even devotes as much of his time to us as he does. If I were him and already had investors lined up, as he claims, I would ignore us completely.

      • Observer

        Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

        Absolute proof of our assumptions is a luxury none of us can afford.
        (Each breath we take is based on an assumption of safe air.)

        As with most things, Rossi’s “proof” will only be realized in hindsight.

        • Steve Swatman

          After reading down through this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Apco/academi and all the paid shills have come crawling out of the woodwork to earn their bonus’s.

          It seems that public interest requires as much negative commentary as possible, and all the old arguments to be rehashed to create some form of negative media influence, Mr Rossi must have quite a case!

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi is sounding more and more like Steron on steroids.

    Wait for products? We probably won’t have to wait beyond him not producing a valid customer in court. That is one test he can’t avoid.

    • Monty

      who is steron? steorn?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      Steorn on steornoids.

  • artefact

    We see from the Brillouin radio interview that many of those “reputable” institutes are not interested in making these tests because they don’t want to loose their reputation with this “LENR”.

  • Bob Greenyer

    There is another possibility – that the device works, but that it is already essentially the subject of prior art and even a black box test would establish that.

    • Gerard McEk

      I hope so!

      • clovis ray

        Why would he want to give away anything at this point, well here is his own words,
        The tests we made have been sound, honest and made by experts and further testing will just be a loss of time for us and a mine of information for the competition.

    • Optimist

      If Rossi has enough funding for the rest of the journey the obvious business decisions is really to go stealth or even use negative deception until he’s ready to deliver a product or sell the IP. His comments lately have been more in the direction to lower the expectation on if the technology is industry ready. Others with inside information like the scientists performing the Elforsk study as well as Mats Lewan have gone silent. Could be a long winter ahead for us in the fanclub.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Winter has come for sure, however, I think hitherto not discussed embodiments of the New Fire will end the freeze.

  • sam

    Interesting article about a black box.
    http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/coral-castle-debunked/

    • Jimr

      Interesting I have thought about this before, I have wondered since he had no heavy equipment, how he set up (telephone type poles for tripod) , did he have several tripods, once lifted how did he shift stones over on top of other stones, the tripod would have to be about twice as high as stone position. Somewhat off topic but interesting.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    It’s a tough question. One can certainly propose reasons as to why Rossi not done more public demos. However, there was the 1MW plant, and there was the Lugarno test. So it not like “zero” demos have occurred. In this light, we can at least state Rossi has done “some” demos.

    And from what we know, several short tests occurred for IH for when money was required.

    So does Rossi “need” the help of an additional test at this point in time? Not likely, but some kind of test may well be required for the court proceedings. In other words, it is conceivable that
    the 1MW plant will have to be put in operation and an additional verification to satisfy the court and parties involved.

    I think all of us would be more comfortable with another test. Rossi obviously feels this is not required or to his advantage at this point in time. This could suggest something to hide and
    thus such behaviors could be considered disconcerting. It not clear if such delays are Rossi buying time (which makes the most sense), or larger issues exist.

    The old saying it’s not over until the fat lady sings comes to mind here. If Rossi has the cards he claims, then Rossi will play that hand when it suits him – not us the eager public or anyone else.

    With an open mind, few doubt should doubt LENR.

    What Rossi has still not been verified to the point in which a “easy” decision can be made on what he has by us the viewing public.

    Given the amount of time that’s passed? I think this amount of time that’s passed is one big reason for lingering doubts to exist – and rightfully so.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Jas

    If Rossi hadn’t gotten involved with IH then perhaps he might have released a device by now? He must be a very frustrated man. At least now it seems like he is trying to get a product out. No more tests means he can concentrate on commercialisation and I support that. It doesn’t mean he will be successful but as determined as he is its more than likely going to happen. When? Who knows. In my lifetime hopefully.

  • Private Citizen

    invient:”scantily clad women and investors that likely put too much money into your company”

    Well, he’s half way there with the buck-some investors, $100 million ostensibly owed!

  • Observer

    As he did recently with the Quark X, Rossi will give a demonstration when there is a ROI (return on investment). From his perspective, if it does not further his goal towards a commercial product, it is a waste of his time.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I will.

  • Observer

    If you can not get your facts straight in the first sentence, what incentive do I have to continue reading? (Rossi sued IH.)

  • Observer

    You can have your personal demonstration when you are ready to buy and he is ready to sell to you. Anything else will always be just hearsay.

  • Omega Z

    Responding on JONP takes very little time.

    These responses can easily be done while he hurry’s up and waits while monitoring R&D Quark reactors. A tedious task that requires his presence if just staring at data on the screen for hours.

    Tests, Black box or otherwise are time consuming and expensive. I recall Brillouin energy requiring somewhere’s around a quarter million$ if you wanted them to run a test demo and many weeks to prepare.

    In the end, someone will always find something to nitpick about. You didn’t do this, that or the other thing and you didn’t check this or that. Perhaps they will even accuse you of targeting the device with a laser creating excess heat. These tests are a waste of time and money and accomplish nothing. Best to focus on a product that a customer will use. It is the ultimate test.

  • Omega Z

    ->”a successful BB test”

    There’s the problem. There is no such theng as a successful BB test. No matter who performs the test, MIT Cal-tech, NASA CERN, there will always be issues.

    Even when a product is on the market and selling, there will continue to be claims that it really doesn’t work.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    So, what type of explosive did the investigators find in the residue of the explosion of the Papp engine that killed an engineer in the 1968 demo?
    (at 0.48 min.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvni1yvGmxc

  • Mike Rion

    Revue what Tesla went through around the turn of the century and how long electrification was delayed by similar shenanigans. Nothing this disruptive happens over night and without adversity. This particular fight has been going on now for over 25 years. 5 years is nothing.

  • Steve Swatman

    I have no bias, just watching this charade play out for over 5 years and still nothing. (no bias eh)

    ah ok, so why bother coming here and playing the veiled negative comment game, you know, everything you say is a veiled attack on Mr rossi, and anyone who thinks he might be onto something, either you accept that he may have something and support his efforts, or believe he has nothing and stop been interested enough to comment, i mean really, why would you follow a charade, why waste your time?

    Unless you are been all altruistic and want to educate all of the people here, is that what you feel you are doing, freely educating us poor uneducated wretch’s.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, no more black box experiments. We need the E-Cat to rebuild the industrial base that the quislings gutted. Let’s get things moving.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    He is fighting for much more than just his financial well being and comforts. You are not listening.

    • LukeK

      I’m listening and its bullshit. By making the project open-source he would speed things up enormously and still be able to benefit greatly from the e-cat and all the money he can make.

  • bfast

    I am with Rossi on this one. If he’s got the goods, he likely can release multiple commercial copies prior to the court date. In any case black box testing is just wheel spinning. He needs to pee or get off the pot. Lets get product already!

  • cashmemorz

    The “failed to find any evidence of a commercially viable energy source” is how the current investors in Cherokee are considering Cherokee’s claims when describing the E-CAT. To help convince the investors that the E-CAT does work, Darden /IH is pulling out the stops by using the court case, and all of the other means mentioned on this site and others, to fill in as many gaps as possible between the investors disbelief and the evidence required to turn the disbelief into conviction that it does work. This is what this circus is about.

  • Steve Swatman

    Lets be really honest here, 5yrs is not a long time to perfect any energy device.

    And throwing negative comments and insinuations around is, well, it is simply a waste of your time and thread space, I mean, in all honesty what is the point of been negative, much better to simply read the comments and new info and decide foryourself if its worthy of your time to investigate further, but there is really very little use in been negative and insinuating fraudulent intent, because calling Mr Rossi’s experiments “a charade’ is really just that.

    I just dont get the mentality of someone who keeps going to the same cinema to watch the same movie just to speak negative about the producer and director
    .

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Simple a customer with an audit from a respectable accounting firm who would verify the cost of power for the production of X amount of product before and after the use of the E-Cat. 50x COP would show up like Christmas tree.

    • roseland67

      Bernie,
      Okay, give me an example of the data you would like to see from this test.
      Possible I’m missing something, but I don’t think so, as I’ve said before, cost just doesn’t do it, but maybe your example will explain it better to me.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Hi Roseland, before I answer any more of you questions how about you answer mine. Do you believe there is such a tech as cold fusion/LENR? I think you work for a multi national corporation in the fossil fuel industry, so I would love your response to my contention that if multi national corporation/ billionaire money interests get control of LENR we will be paying twenty times what we should for LENR tech.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Good Luck, the first thing to happen is a senator will introduce a bill in Congress written by multi national corporations/billionaires that testing of LENR is dangerous and must be controlled by those who understand the science. The Bill passes 90-10.

    • Eyedoc

      BK…. that would actually be quite entertaining, with the “cat” out, to see congress try to stop the backyard knowledge……it would also certainly reveal a lot regarding PTB…….let the LENR “epidemic” begin (harder to stop than moonshine & meth)

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think that is what a major player tried – I am verifying if that was achieved.

    • Eyedoc

      Who might that be Bob ?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Install another customer plant exactly like the existing plant in Rossi‘s year long test, with both plants using the exact same materials. The heat supplied to the new plant will be by electric boiler. Have three identical electric meters set at zero. Electric meter 1 for the electric boiler and plant, electric meter 2 for the Rossi E-Catt and plant, and meter 3 for general building utilities. Pick the same amount of product (X) you will to produce from each plant. Start both plants. When X amount of product has been produced by a plant, shut it down, read the meter. When X amount of product is made by the next plant, shut it down, read the meter. Convert the meter readings to dollars of electricity used. Now, just like all of Rossi’s past tests you can nit pick until the cows come home, (secret wires, trick plugs, Rossi sabotaging the meters, hidden batteries etc.) but with the E-Cat’s 50 plus COP the money savings will be very obvious.
    PS This quote from you explaining why we do not have to worry about money interests gaining control of LENR, I would suggest is rather naïve, “maybe $100 in plumbing parts, $100 in controls, $300 in a few grams of specially treated readily available isotopes and some assembly, so anyone, anywhere could build their own reactor for any purpose without state, local, national governments even knowing.” We can also make our own gas, and break the oil monopoly. Good Luck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq37DLVd6g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO0rHl2DXlY

    • roseland67

      Bernie,
      Sound logic,
      Now, if Rossi does this and the results are what you indicate, would you purchase an Ecat based on these results?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Yes, if I had an application. Would you take back all your negative pronouncements about Rossi and his E-Cat?