Rossi: No Further Black Box Testing

Andrea Rossi responded to a suggestion on the Journal of Nuclear Physics by Gerard McEk that Rossi do a black box test of an E-Cat plant with a well known testing company to shoe convincing proof that the E-Cat is real, and open up the large scale commercial market.

Rossi responded:

Andrea Rossi
August 12, 2016 at 6:37 AM
Gerard McEk:
At the dawn of the computer era only a small percentage of the persons thought that personal computers were going to become a product: most gurus of cybernetics thought that to bring computers to households was a ridiculous idea. To change the game have not been tests, but products in the market.
The tests we made have been sound, honest and made by experts and further testing will just be a loss of time for us and a mine of information for the competition. My goal is not to have high rate polls, because I have not to be elected on the base of what I say or shw, as a politician, I have to sell products. What I need are products, not papers at this point. The sole tests that are useful, at this point, are tests that we can make with full knowledge of what happens indide the reactors, to consolidate the technology in this R&D phase, not tests with black boxes to raise the polls positively. We already achieved the goal to be able to commercialize the industrial plants, albeit still in a pioneer-market context and are close to expand the industrial market for such industrial plants.
The answer to your question can be synthesized as follows: once our products will be in the market, everybody will be able to buy them and make all the tests he wants.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

P.S.
By the way, I am very surprised that on EW we got 55% positive: I thought that the positive expectation, after all the stupidities put around, could not be more than 10%, he,he,he.

I would like to see Rossi do the kind of test that Gerard suggests here. I do think that some kind of black box test would help his case in court. I think that there will be expert witnesses called by the IH team to try and convince the jury that there was no excess heat produced in the 1 year test and a working plant would certainly be strong evidence in favor of Rossi’s claims.

However, I don’t really expect it to happen before a commercial rollout. Rossi has always been concerned about losing time on testing that he sees as unnecessary, and in providing any possible advantage to competitors.

I think the best we can hope for is that one of the “pioneer” customers in this early stage of production will be willing to report on their experiences with an e-cat plant, but we can’t be sure that will happen, since we don’t know who these customers are or what their intentions are.

  • Steve Swatman

    Mr Rossi has a plan and a dream, I congratulate his conviction, and hope to see his ecats, quarkx etc on the market long before the court case is finished and I for one admire his sheer audacity.

    • Mike Rion

      Here, here. Rossi is the current day version of Tesla, except, unlike Tesla, he may well end up profiting from his invention.

  • Steve Swatman

    Mr Rossi has a plan and a dream, I congratulate his conviction, and hope to see his ecats, quarkx etc on the market long before the court case is finished and I for one admire his sheer audacity.

    • Ingo Grusch

      I second that, but on the other hand it is not understandable for me, why he refuses to give MFMP at least a first generation prototype to play with.

    • Mike Rion

      Here, here. Rossi is the current day version of Tesla, except, unlike Tesla, he may well end up profiting from his invention.

      • roseland67

        Tesla profited big time from many of his inventions.
        The largest was a royalty per hp for every motor that ran on AC.
        To assist Westinghouse in AC development, he waived this royalty.
        Tesla lived in a New York City hotel, and ate like a pig, supposedly,
        2 Del Monica steaks every day.
        He spent many millions of $$$ on experiments, but was not a business man, or investor, he was a genius inventor that died virtually broke because he spent $$$ like a drunken sailor on leave in the Philippines

  • Angry SQUIRREL!!

    If he truely has a product that will do what he says on a consistant basis then the market is the best place to prove what is happening is real or not. If the reception is positive from the first few buyers the news will spread like wildfire and it will all go from there. Now-a-days with social media it wouldn’t take long to get out the truth.

    • clovis ray

      /

  • roseland67

    Swat,

    We all do, but I hold out little hope that Rossi delivers anything.
    I expect the case will be settled out of court and, over time, Rossi will simply disappear from lack of interest.
    Typical, (government, big oil etc), conspiracy theories will rule the day.

    • Steve Swatman

      tjah,

      What reasons would lead you to expect an out of court settlement?

      Mr Rossi has not disappeared yet and the ball has been rolling quite a while.

      I believe your bias is getting the better of you, Conspiracy theories never rule the day, and there is far, far too much interest in LENR now that Mr Rossi has brought it into the limelight, for it to disappear under conspiracy theories.

      • roseland67

        Swat,

        I am an electrical engineer, CEM, working for a 40 billion $ global energy company, +100,000 employees in over 100 countries, nobody on the planet wants this to work more than me, (us)
        I have no bias, just watching this charade play out for over 5 years and still nothing, and, I see nothing on the horizon anytime soon.
        So, these experiences and observations, of nothing, must outweigh the theory of hope and possibility.

        • MorganMck

          Of course Randall Mills (Brilliant Light Power) has been able to keep his firm going for like 30 years without any income (that I know of). So some investors seem to have no end of patience with these inventors if the story is compelling and the demos convincing. Mills has played the same expectations game as Rossi with commercialization always 12 to 18 months out. It never happens!

          • roseland67

            Morgan,

            LENR in some form or fashion may happen, I just don’t think Rossi will be the guy to do it.

        • Mike Rion

          Revue what Tesla went through around the turn of the century and how long electrification was delayed by similar shenanigans. Nothing this disruptive happens over night and without adversity. This particular fight has been going on now for over 25 years. 5 years is nothing.

          • roseland67

            Mike,
            I have read Empire of Light, essentially about Tesla, Edison, Westinghouse and JP Morgan.
            No shenanigans, just competition between Tesla (AC), and Edison, (DC). Each trying to prove their case. Edison went so far as to electrocute a horse to show the dangers of AC.
            Both systems worked and anyone could see/test either system at anytime.
            Tesla & Westinghouse, won a contract to supply AC generators to supply power from Niagara Falls to Erie Pa.
            Edison and Morgan were prepared to file suit for patent infringement, (the contract was for a lot of $ and Edison Morgan wanted some).
            Tesla won, then they also won the contract to supply AC power to the Colombian Exposition, (or the World Fair), in Chicago. Edison then refused to sell Tesla any light bulbs, so Tesla invented his own solution.
            A great read, dad read it first and then passed it to all of us with his comments in page indent.

            Difference is that anyone at any time could see, evaluate and test both AC and DC power on their equipment, that is just NOT the case with Ecat.

        • Steve Swatman

          I have no bias, just watching this charade play out for over 5 years and still nothing. (no bias eh)

          ah ok, so why bother coming here and playing the veiled negative comment game, you know, everything you say is a veiled attack on Mr rossi, and anyone who thinks he might be onto something, either you accept that he may have something and support his efforts, or believe he has nothing and stop been interested enough to comment, i mean really, why would you follow a charade, why waste your time?

          Unless you are been all altruistic and want to educate all of the people here, is that what you feel you are doing, freely educating us poor uneducated wretch’s.

          • roseland67

            Swat,

            I still visit this site because I must consider the possibility that I am wrong, and ECW is my “go to site” for all things Ecat.
            However, as indicated above, my experiences/observations of the last 5 + years, suggest that the Ecat does not work as stated,
            hopefully, I am wrong.

          • Steve Swatman

            Lets be really honest here, 5yrs is not a long time to perfect any energy device.

            And throwing negative comments and insinuations around is, well, it is simply a waste of your time and thread space, I mean, in all honesty what is the point of been negative, much better to simply read the comments and new info and decide foryourself if its worthy of your time to investigate further, but there is really very little use in been negative and insinuating fraudulent intent, because calling Mr Rossi’s experiments “a charade’ is really just that.

            I just dont get the mentality of someone who keeps going to the same cinema to watch the same movie just to speak negative about the producer and director
            .

          • roseland67

            Mike,

            Do you even consider the possibility that the Ecat does not work as stated?
            Or has what you read on the internet convinced you that the Ecat
            Delivers more Energy out > Energy In

          • Steve Swatman

            Of course I consider that, it might end up been like fusion 5 decades later hundreds of billions of dollars later still a possible for the future.

            However, my mom taught me, “if you cannot say something positive, stay quiet” in this particular there are way too many of you educated types, just throwing negative comments around, making accusations of fraud, creating negative connotation, in my opinion it is either childish, malicious, envy or paid shilling.

            if you were making good arguments, using real data and scientific experimentation to show Mr Rossi is a charade, a fraud, a fake, a lunatic dreamer, then maybe I would have more respect for you and your comments and the other commentors who come to the theater just to spoil the fun for everyone who came to enjoy the show.

            if you do not like the play and the actors you can leave the theater, but why attempt to ruin everyone else night out?

  • Mark D

    We need to ask ourselves after all the years and demonstrations and quasi independent tests why no a true black box test? Commercialization of course will solve all these issues but seems so far off. The true black box test will help the lawsuit and would it not speed up industrialization? I hope we see a product in the hands of a customer who will be open to telling the world about the ecat. No more secret military customers or customers with a trade secret process that restrict acess. God speed Rossi but I am doubtful.

    • Albert D. Kallal

      It’s a tough question. One can certainly propose reasons as to why Rossi not done more public demos. However, there was the 1MW plant, and there was the Lugarno test. So it not like “zero” demos have occurred. In this light, we can at least state Rossi has done “some” demos.

      And from what we know, several short tests occurred for IH for when money was required.

      So does Rossi “need” the help of an additional test at this point in time? Not likely, but some kind of test may well be required for the court proceedings. In other words, it is conceivable that
      the 1MW plant will have to be put in operation and an additional verification to satisfy the court and parties involved.

      I think all of us would be more comfortable with another test. Rossi obviously feels this is not required or to his advantage at this point in time. This could suggest something to hide and
      thus such behaviors could be considered disconcerting. It not clear if such delays are Rossi buying time (which makes the most sense), or larger issues exist.

      The old saying it’s not over until the fat lady sings comes to mind here. If Rossi has the cards he claims, then Rossi will play that hand when it suits him – not us the eager public or anyone else.

      With an open mind, few doubt should doubt LENR.

      What Rossi has still not been verified to the point in which a “easy” decision can be made on what he has by us the viewing public.

      Given the amount of time that’s passed? I think this amount of time that’s passed is one big reason for lingering doubts to exist – and rightfully so.

      Regards,
      Albert D. Kallal
      Edmonton, Alberta Canada

    • Mike Rion

      The only thing at this point that will speed up industrialization is a willing investor with the money and the expertise to develop it as practical matter. I thought that IH might be that, but apparently Rossi has found someone else who is less combative. But there is much work to be done and it may take years before all the eyes are dotted and the tees crossed. Development and industrialization is a costly and time consuming process at best.

      • roseland67

        Mike,
        IF, the Ecat works as stated, investors would be stacked up like chords of wood.
        Unfortunately, only Rossi knows
        And precious few believe him.

    • Brian

      And why no visible customers after 5 years, following the claimed invisible one of 2011? If a MW e-cat could be sold at that time, surely another one could have been made and sold by now?

  • Gerard McEk

    Obviously AR’s answer is not where I hoped for. As Frank says, we may have to wait for a customer who is willing to do this test openly but that may take a while.
    A 1.5 million dollar plant is not the same as a home computer and companies are not so easily convinced by just the words: ‘If it doesn’t work, just send it back and I return the money’. Production and goodwill loss is also a thing they need to consider in their risk assessment.
    I do also agree with Frank that such a black box test would help in the court case.
    Additionally, if this test is done, it should not cost a lot of Andrea’s precious time.
    Of course it is his decision to do it in this way, but I am disappointed.
    But maybe Engineer48 can convince his customers to publish a test?

    • Mike Rion

      There may indeed be a black box test done during the trial, but even then it may not be made available to us

    • roseland67

      Gerard,

      When do you think Engineer 48 and/or his customer are going to take delivery on their Ecat(s)?

      Supposedly, you can go to Leonardo web site and order, but all it says is someone will get back to you.
      There is no cost, delivery, specification, marketing or engineering documents that suggest what your are purchasing?

  • clovis ray

    /

  • Frost*

    There are summons docs posted on 11th August at https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

    Has anyone read them yet?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      There is an Amended Answer (document 30), all the exhibits (again?) and what appears to be one new exhibit (Exhibit 26) and document 31 is a collection of proposed summons, apparently to the same parties as already summoned as part of document 29. I have not studied the Amended Answer yet. However, from Exhibit 26, there will be socks lying about, knocked off. the Amended Answer and Exhibit 26 are on newvortex as before.

  • Frost*

    There are summons docs posted on 11th August at https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

    Has anyone read them yet?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      There is an Amended Answer (document 30), all the exhibits (again?) and what appears to be one new exhibit (Exhibit 26) and document 31 is a collection of proposed summons, apparently to the same parties as already summoned as part of document 29. I have not studied the Amended Answer yet. However, from Exhibit 26, there will be socks lying about, knocked off. the Amended Answer and Exhibit 26 are on newvortex as before.

  • theBuckWheat

    As much as I want to cheer Rossi on, it is waaay past the time when he allows some third parties to have a device to evaluate and confirm for the public on their functional aspects.

  • theBuckWheat

    As much as I want to cheer Rossi on, it is waaay past the time when he allows some third parties to have a device to evaluate and confirm for the public on their functional aspects.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Please, no more testing. No matter how Rossi, or anyone for that matter, sets up the test it will be subject to endless, ridiculous criticism, just like the many, many, many past tests. Rossi has said he has sold and is manufacturing the E-Cat from the year long test, i.e. E48 purchase. I am willing to wait a few months, if nothing happens, I will turn my LENR attention elsewhere.

    • roseland67

      Bernie,
      IF, you were going to buy an Ecat today, are the existing assemblage of “proofs” good enough for you?
      If not, what additional “proofs” would you require/request?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Simple a customer with an audit from a respectable accounting firm who would verify the cost of power for the production of X amount of product before and after the use of the E-Cat. 50x COP would show up like Christmas tree.

        • roseland67

          Bernie,
          Okay, give me an example of the data you would like to see from this test.
          Possible I’m missing something, but I don’t think so, as I’ve said before, cost just doesn’t do it, but maybe your example will explain it better to me.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Hi Roseland, before I answer any more of you questions how about you answer mine. Do you believe there is such a tech as cold fusion/LENR? I think you work for a multi national corporation in the fossil fuel industry, so I would love your response to my contention that if, assuming there is such a tech as LENR, multi national corporation/ billionaire money interests get control of LENR we will be paying twenty times what we should for LENR tech.

          • roseland67

            Certainly,
            I work for a global energy company, (Electrical Engineering,not fossil fuel),
            But you could simply Click on my user name on this site and see previous answers.

            Yes, I believe there is “something” to LENR.
            There are way to many seemingly unrelated disparate cases of LENR for me to think
            That it is a global conspiracy or fraud.

            I don’t think global control is possible because the process, IF IT WORKS AS STATED,
            (And no one knows this, not you, not Engineer 48, not Warthog, GED, Chapman, bachcole etc).
            appears to be extremely simple.
            I mean really, maybe $100 in plumbing parts, $100 in controls, $300 in a few grams of specially treated readily available isotopes and some assembly, so anyone, anywhere could build their own reactor for any purpose without state, local, national governments even knowing.

            I believe It would be beneficial for this disruptive technology, if ALL of the LENR experiments that show “almost kinda sorta” some excess heat were replicated by each other.
            Then, if they all find the same results of excess heat there may some consensus on how to experimentally move forward.
            Now it is terribly unorganized.

            Rossi has had over 5 years to bring his technology and findings to the masses and he has done absolutely nothing,
            So my observations and experiences with Rossi must trump everyone’s “theory” that he has what he says he has.

            IF and hopefully when, Rossi ever delivers, then my observations will change as there will be new evidence.

            However, as I have said multiple times, I simply do not believe everything that is on the Internet so I ain’t holding my breath.

            Now, please reciprocate and advise your testing procedures and evidence that would be sufficient enough for you to buy an Ecat.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Install another customer plant exactly like the existing plant in Rossi‘s year long test, with both plants using the exact same materials. The heat supplied to the new plant will be by electric boiler. Have three identical electric meters set at zero. Electric meter 1 for the electric boiler and plant, electric meter 2 for the Rossi E-Catt and plant, and meter 3 for general building utilities. Pick the same amount of product (X) you will to produce from each plant. Start both plants. When X amount of product has been produced by a plant, shut it down, read the meter. When X amount of product is made by the next plant, shut it down, read the meter. Convert the meter readings to dollars of electricity used. Now, just like all of Rossi’s past tests you can nit pick until the cows come home, (secret wires, trick plugs, Rossi sabotaging the meters, hidden batteries etc.) but with the E-Cat’s 50 plus COP the money savings will be very obvious.
            PS This quote from you explaining why we do not have to worry about money interests gaining control of LENR, I would suggest is rather naïve, “maybe $100 in plumbing parts, $100 in controls, $300 in a few grams of specially treated readily available isotopes and some assembly, so anyone, anywhere could build their own reactor for any purpose without state, local, national governments even knowing.” We can also make our own gas, and break the oil monopoly. Good Luck.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq37DLVd6g

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO0rHl2DXlY

          • roseland67

            Bernie,
            Sound logic,
            Now, if Rossi does this and the results are what you indicate, would you purchase an Ecat based on these results?

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Yes, if I had an application. Would you take back all your negative pronouncements about Rossi and his E-Cat?

          • roseland67

            Bernie,

            I simply do not/will not believe something just because it is what I want to happen.
            Read my response to Billy Jackson, answer the same questions, honestly to yourself, than ask me again.
            Do you believe everything you read on the internet? Of course not, but you choose to believe this why?
            For you, the evidence seems to be compelling enough so you can make this leap of faith, well, good for you,
            I’m just not there yet, and if Rossi continues on his current path of not delivering anything to anybody that he can’t personally push buttons, twist knobs, turn switches, I probably never will.

  • menos50

    I am afraid I must disagree with the ” testers “… nothing succeeds like success and success in manufacturing and business is money and money doesn’t normally go to waste on non-performance, at least not for long. Since LENR is a product of tenacity in a very hostile R&D environment, I believe that Rossi’s decision to produce is the correct one. All the deniers in the world will mean little in the face of working equipment spreading in the business world, followed by wide spread personal use.

    • Mike Rion

      I agree. I’m surprised that he even devotes as much of his time to us as he does. If I were him and already had investors lined up, as he claims, I would ignore us completely.

      • Observer

        Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

        Absolute proof of our assumptions is a luxury none of us can afford.
        (Each breath we take is based on an assumption of safe air.)

        As with most things, Rossi’s “proof” will only be realized in hindsight.

        • Steve Swatman

          After reading down through this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Apco/academi and all the paid shills have come crawling out of the woodwork to earn their bonus’s.

          It seems that public interest requires as much negative commentary as possible, and all the old arguments to be rehashed to create some form of negative media influence, Mr Rossi must have quite a case!

  • menos50

    I am afraid I must disagree with the ” testers “… nothing succeeds like success and success in manufacturing and business is money and money doesn’t normally go to waste on non-performance, at least not for long. Since LENR is a product of tenacity in a very hostile R&D environment, I believe that Rossi’s decision to produce is the correct one. All the deniers in the world will mean little in the face of working equipment spreading in the business world, followed by wide spread personal use.

    • Mike Rion

      I agree. I’m surprised that he even devotes as much of his time to us as he does. If I were him and already had investors lined up, as he claims, I would ignore us completely.

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi is sounding more and more like Steron on steroids.

    Wait for products? We probably won’t have to wait beyond him not producing a valid customer in court. That is one test he can’t avoid.

    • Monty

      who is steron? steorn?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      Steorn on steornoids.

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi is sounding more and more like Steorn on steroids.

    Wait for products? We probably won’t have to wait beyond him not producing a valid customer in court. That is one test he can’t avoid.

    EDIT: “Steorn” (Dyslexics UNTIE!)

    • Monty

      who is steron? steorn?

    • Abd Ul-Rahman Lomax

      Steorn on steornoids.

    • invient

      Yeah, they really put out the scam vibe… when rossi starts webinars with scantily clad women and investors that likely put too much money into your company claiming it as a success… then I’m not going to take you seriously.

      • Private Citizen

        invient:”scantily clad women and investors that likely put too much money into your company”

        Well, he’s half way there with the buck-some investors, $100 million ostensibly owed!

  • artefact

    We see from the Brillouin radio interview that many of those “reputable” institutes are not interested in making these tests because they don’t want to loose their reputation with this “LENR”.

  • artefact

    We see from the Brillouin radio interview that many of those “reputable” institutes are not interested in making these tests because they don’t want to loose their reputation with this “LENR”.

  • Bruce__H

    Once again … back to the situation of years ago with Rossi fending off suspicions by claiming that he has customers lined up and factories making things. None of which ever came true.

    How long does Rossi get to make good on his claims this time? Has no one learned anything?

    • MorganMck

      Well said Bruce. I want to believe Rossi has something (and he probably does), but all this talk about not being able to detour from his commercialization charge to do a little BB test is belied by the many similar claims of the past which have resulted in no demonstrable product (at least to the public). In reality, a successful BB test (MFMP conducted?) would probably accelerate commercial adoption not harm it. It’s certainly hard to believe it could make it could slow it from it current glacial pace.

      • Omega Z

        ->”a successful BB test”

        There’s the problem. There is no such theng as a successful BB test. No matter who performs the test, MIT Cal-tech, NASA CERN, there will always be issues.

        Even when a product is on the market and selling, there will continue to be claims that it really doesn’t work.

        • MorganMck

          It is blatantly obvious that you can never perform BB tests that will satisfy everyone, but that isn’t the goal IMO. If you can’t achieve perfection, don’t even try??? It would be relatively easy and inexpensive to dramatically improve on all e-Cat demos/tests performed to date. Just provide a BB to MFMP and don’t get personally involved in the testing (don’t come within 100 miles of the test site). I think this (assuming positive results) would do more to advance the cause of eCat commercialization than all this cloak-and-dagger, mystery client, law-suit laden approachs that has been taken to date.

    • Jas

      If Rossi hadn’t gotten involved with IH then perhaps he might have released a device by now? He must be a very frustrated man. At least now it seems like he is trying to get a product out. No more tests means he can concentrate on commercialisation and I support that. It doesn’t mean he will be successful but as determined as he is its more than likely going to happen. When? Who knows. In my lifetime hopefully.

    • Omega Z

      ->”and factories making things”

      Actually, he has said plans for factories are under discussion. A few low temp E-cats are being hand built as they are still a work in process.

  • MorganMck

    Rossi says he won’t pursue any black-box testing because: (1) it would be a time-consuming distraction from his commercialization efforts and (2) he does not care what people, in general, think of him or the e-Cat (not trying to win any popularity contests). Yet he spends considerable time most days (a time-consuming distraction?) responding to his adoring fan-base (who he is ostensibly does not care what they think) on the JONP site. I’m glad he posts, but I think it makes him disingenuous vis-a-vis his stand on black-box testing which would require very little of his precious time and would (by definition) reveal nothing to the competition. So IMHO his rationale is BS.

    • Omega Z

      Responding on JONP takes very little time.

      These responses can easily be done while he hurry’s up and waits while monitoring R&D Quark reactors. A tedious task that requires his presence if just staring at data on the screen for hours.

      Tests, Black box or otherwise are time consuming and expensive. I recall Brillouin energy requiring somewhere’s around a quarter million$ if you wanted them to run a test demo and many weeks to prepare.

      In the end, someone will always find something to nitpick about. You didn’t do this, that or the other thing and you didn’t check this or that. Perhaps they will even accuse you of targeting the device with a laser creating excess heat. These tests are a waste of time and money and accomplish nothing. Best to focus on a product that a customer will use. It is the ultimate test.

      • MorganMck

        You may be right about the time requirement, but it still consumes some time that could be used to advance the eCat cause in some way. Furthermore, why carry on a public discourse at all if you don’t care what people think of you or your invention. I think he actually does care.

        As to cost, MFMP has offered to do the BB tests at no cost to Rossi. Unfortunately, I do not think Rossi is capable of letting anyone do such testing without his personal involvement which, of course, would raise the hackles of the skeptics (justified or not) as to the independence of the tests.

    • roseland67

      Simply remove an existing reactor from the 1MW plant and let anyone test it at Rossi’s lab.
      “Please come in NASA, the Ecat is right over here on the bench. Set up your measuring & recording equipment as you think best, turn the Ecat on with this switch here and start testing. I will sit here and watch and answer any questions you have. There are live web cams feeding to JNP.
      You can be here 24/7 if you want, but you have 7 days to complete your testing, you cannot take anything apart, when you are done with your testing, you can share the data with anyone”.

  • Bob Greenyer

    There is another possibility – that the device works, but that it is already essentially the subject of prior art and even a black box test would establish that.

    • Gerard McEk

      I hope so!

      • clovis ray

        Why would he want to give away anything at this point, well here is his own words,
        The tests we made have been sound, honest and made by experts and further testing will just be a loss of time for us and a mine of information for the competition.

    • Optimist

      If Rossi has enough funding for the rest of the journey the obvious business decisions is really to go stealth or even use negative deception until he’s ready to deliver a product or sell the IP. His comments lately have been more in the direction to lower the expectation on if the technology is industry ready. Others with inside information like the scientists performing the Elforsk study as well as Mats Lewan have gone silent. Could be a long winter ahead for us in the fanclub.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Winter has come for sure, however, I think hitherto not discussed embodiments of the New Fire will end the freeze.

  • Bob Greenyer

    There is another possibility – that the device works, but that it is already essentially the subject of prior art and even a black box test would establish that.

    • gameover

      What prior art, could you make a few examples?

    • Gerard McEk

      I hope so!

      • clovis ray

        /

        • MorganMck

          Why would you care about “word” of a robot factory in the U.S. (or anywhere) when the previous “words” we have received have never been validated by anything concrete. I’m not saying Rossi doesn’t dream or even plan on such a factory, but all past talk about such a facility have proved empty rhetoric.

          • clovis ray

            /

    • Optimist

      If Rossi has enough funding for the rest of the journey the obvious business decisions is really to go stealth or even use negative deception until he’s ready to deliver a product or sell the IP. His comments lately have been more in the direction to lower the expectation on if the technology is industry ready. Others with inside information like the scientists performing the Elforsk study as well as Mats Lewan have gone silent. Could be a long winter ahead for us in the fanclub.

      • Bob Greenyer

        Winter has come for sure, however, I think hitherto not discussed embodiments of the New Fire will end the freeze.

    • Andy Kumar

      “prior art …”.
      Surely you must be joking, Bob. You guys have been at it for years now with no help from the artists.

      • Bob Greenyer

        I am serious.

        • roseland67

          Bob,

          Could you not simply add a few grams of a different element, a different form of heat and a control system change to get around the “prior art” issue?

          • Bob Greenyer

            I think that is what a major player tried – I am verifying if that was achieved.

          • Eyedoc

            Who might that be Bob ?

  • sam

    Interesting article about a black box.
    http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/coral-castle-debunked/

    • Jimr

      Interesting I have thought about this before, I have wondered since he had no heavy equipment, how he set up (telephone type poles for tripod) , did he have several tripods, once lifted how did he shift stones over on top of other stones, the tripod would have to be about twice as high as stone position. Somewhat off topic but interesting.

  • sam

    Interesting article about a black box.
    http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/coral-castle-debunked/

    • Jimr

      Interesting I have thought about this before, I have wondered since he had no heavy equipment, how he set up (telephone type poles for tripod) , did he have several tripods, once lifted how did he shift stones over on top of other stones, the tripod would have to be about twice as high as stone position. Somewhat off topic but interesting.

  • Albert D. Kallal

    It’s a tough question. One can certainly propose reasons as to why Rossi not done more public demos. However, there was the 1MW plant, and there was the Lugarno test. So it not like “zero” demos have occurred. In this light, we can at least state Rossi has done “some” demos.

    And from what we know, several short tests occurred for IH for when money was required.

    So does Rossi “need” the help of an additional test at this point in time? Not likely, but some kind of test may well be required for the court proceedings. In other words, it is conceivable that
    the 1MW plant will have to be put in operation and an additional verification to satisfy the court and parties involved.

    I think all of us would be more comfortable with another test. Rossi obviously feels this is not required or to his advantage at this point in time. This could suggest something to hide and
    thus such behaviors could be considered disconcerting. It not clear if such delays are Rossi buying time (which makes the most sense), or larger issues exist.

    The old saying it’s not over until the fat lady sings comes to mind here. If Rossi has the cards he claims, then Rossi will play that hand when it suits him – not us the eager public or anyone else.

    With an open mind, few doubt should doubt LENR.

    What Rossi has still not been verified to the point in which a “easy” decision can be made on what he has by us the viewing public.

    Given the amount of time that’s passed? I think this amount of time that’s passed is one big reason for lingering doubts to exist – and rightfully so.

    Regards,
    Albert D. Kallal
    Edmonton, Alberta Canada

  • Jas

    If Rossi hadn’t gotten involved with IH then perhaps he might have released a device by now? He must be a very frustrated man. At least now it seems like he is trying to get a product out. No more tests means he can concentrate on commercialisation and I support that. It doesn’t mean he will be successful but as determined as he is its more than likely going to happen. When? Who knows. In my lifetime hopefully.

  • Private Citizen

    invient:”scantily clad women and investors that likely put too much money into your company”

    Well, he’s half way there with the buck-some investors, $100 million ostensibly owed!

  • Observer

    As he did recently with the Quark X, Rossi will give a demonstration when there is a ROI (return on investment). From his perspective, if it does not further his goal towards a commercial product, it is a waste of his time.

  • Observer

    As he did recently with the Quark X, Rossi will give a demonstration when there is a ROI (return on investment). From his perspective, if it does not further his goal towards a commercial product, it is a waste of his time.

    • MorganMck

      What demonstration? The one Rossi (alone) told us about?

      • Observer

        You can have your personal demonstration when you are ready to buy and he is ready to sell to you. Anything else will always be just hearsay.

        • MorganMck

          True enough, but don’t use a totally unsubstantiated demo as proof of anything. You don’t know that Rossi will give a demo when motivated by a potential payday (ROI), because you don’t know that Rossi ever, in fact, gave such a demo except by his own words. I hope he was telling the truth, but a guy that says he not going to let further tests distract him from his commercialization efforts, needs to actually produce a product on the open market to have much credibility.

          • Observer

            Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

            Absolute proof of our assumptions is a luxury none of us can afford.
            (Each breath we take is based on an assumption of safe air.)

            As with most things, Rossi’s “proof” will only be realized in hindsight.

          • MorganMck

            Profound!

  • Redford

    I think he’s very, very sound actually. But he’s been serving that (very good) point for a while now. So ok, no talk, all action, sure, let us see the action

  • Old_Skeptical

    A multimillion dollar lawsuit by a company that paid more than 10 million dollars and spent over year testing the product and then failed to find any evidence of a commercially viable energy source is pretty convincing evidence to all but disciples that there is much less reliability than Rossi claims for his product..
    ie: he is already positioning himself for failures to find cost saving commercial energy from his ‘demonstration’ plants that will cost only $1 million dollars each despite lack of independent testing reports other than those of his small cadre of confidants..
    I’ve gotten to the point that I continue to follow this site on the forlorn hope that there really is much more for us to learn about physics and energy and that a breakthrough AH-HA moment will someday create inexpensive abundant power.
    Unfortunately the longer Rossi claims to have controlled the new fire, the more I think that at best Rossi knows when to see fire as a result of lightning, but has no idea how to actually effectively produce ‘lightning’ so that he can harness,control or sell it.
    Just sayin this is in a league with noble gas powered engines folks – – – -enjoy the show

    • Observer

      If you can not get your facts straight in the first sentence, what incentive do I have to continue reading? (Rossi sued IH.)

    • Alan DeAngelis

      So, what type of explosive did the investigators find in the residue of the explosion of the Papp engine that killed an engineer in the 1968 demo?
      (at 0.48 min.)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvni1yvGmxc

    • cashmemorz

      The “failed to find any evidence of a commercially viable energy source” is how the current investors in Cherokee are considering Cherokee’s claims when describing the E-CAT. To help convince the investors that the E-CAT does work, Darden /IH is pulling out the stops by using the court case, and all of the other means mentioned on this site and others, to fill in as many gaps as possible between the investors disbelief and the evidence required to turn the disbelief into conviction that it does work. This is what this circus is about.

  • Bob Greenyer

    I will.

  • Observer

    If you can not get your facts straight in the first sentence, what incentive do I have to continue reading? (Rossi sued IH.)

  • Observer

    You can have your personal demonstration when you are ready to buy and he is ready to sell to you. Anything else will always be just hearsay.

  • Andy Kumar

    // By the way, I am very surprised that on EW we got 55% positive: I thought that the positive expectation, after all the stupidities put around, could not be more than 10%, he,he,he. //
    .
    Rossi is smart enough to know the reasons for this statistically anomalous result.

    1. Asking ECW readers about e-cat is like asking Playboy readers about their private lives. You would think everybody is “kinky.”

    2. “Stupidities” to ECW readers are like water off a duck’s back. Stupidities just don’t seem to stick to them.

    http://makeagif.com/yvz04P

  • LukeK

    I just dont get it, Rossi is not goig to live for much longer, what does he want then? A yacht and a hundred Ferraris in his mansion? Release and give it away and enjoy whatever left of your life ffs.

    • peacelovewoodstock

      Rossi is 64 and very fit, why would you suggest he is not going to live much longer?

      Thomas Edison partnered with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone to do research on rubber for automobile tires when he was 80 years old!

      • colodude

        Booyah, PLW, Booyah!

      • LukeK

        He has 20 years of live left if he is going to take it easy. With all this rubbish he is doing now he will be lucky with 10. Should take all the money he can now and enjoy the life, leave further development to someone else. This would also speed things up.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      He is fighting for much more than just his financial well being and comforts. You are not listening.

      • LukeK

        I’m listening and its bullshit. By making the project open-source he would speed things up enormously and still be able to benefit greatly from the e-cat and all the money he can make.

  • Omega Z

    Responding on JONP takes very little time.

    These responses can easily be done while he hurry’s up and waits while monitoring R&D Quark reactors. A tedious task that requires his presence if just staring at data on the screen for hours.

    Tests, Black box or otherwise are time consuming and expensive. I recall Brillouin energy requiring somewhere’s around a quarter million$ if you wanted them to run a test demo and many weeks to prepare.

    In the end, someone will always find something to nitpick about. You didn’t do this, that or the other thing and you didn’t check this or that. Perhaps they will even accuse you of targeting the device with a laser creating excess heat. These tests are a waste of time and money and accomplish nothing. Best to focus on a product that a customer will use. It is the ultimate test.

  • Omega Z

    ->”a successful BB test”

    There’s the problem. There is no such theng as a successful BB test. No matter who performs the test, MIT Cal-tech, NASA CERN, there will always be issues.

    Even when a product is on the market and selling, there will continue to be claims that it really doesn’t work.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    So, what type of explosive did the investigators find in the residue of the explosion of the Papp engine that killed an engineer in the 1968 demo?
    (at 0.48 min.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvni1yvGmxc

  • Mike Rion

    Revue what Tesla went through around the turn of the century and how long electrification was delayed by similar shenanigans. Nothing this disruptive happens over night and without adversity. This particular fight has been going on now for over 25 years. 5 years is nothing.

  • Steve Swatman

    I have no bias, just watching this charade play out for over 5 years and still nothing. (no bias eh)

    ah ok, so why bother coming here and playing the veiled negative comment game, you know, everything you say is a veiled attack on Mr rossi, and anyone who thinks he might be onto something, either you accept that he may have something and support his efforts, or believe he has nothing and stop been interested enough to comment, i mean really, why would you follow a charade, why waste your time?

    Unless you are been all altruistic and want to educate all of the people here, is that what you feel you are doing, freely educating us poor uneducated wretch’s.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, no more black box experiments. We need the E-Cat to rebuild the industrial base that the quislings gutted. Let’s get things moving.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, no more black box experiments. We need the E-Cat to rebuild the industrial base that the quislings gutted. Let’s get things moving.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    He is fighting for much more than just his financial well being and comforts. You are not listening.

    • LukeK

      I’m listening and its bullshit. By making the project open-source he would speed things up enormously and still be able to benefit greatly from the e-cat and all the money he can make.

  • bfast

    I am with Rossi on this one. If he’s got the goods, he likely can release multiple commercial copies prior to the court date. In any case black box testing is just wheel spinning. He needs to pee or get off the pot. Lets get product already!

  • bfast

    I am with Rossi on this one. If he’s got the goods, he likely can release multiple commercial copies prior to the court date. In any case black box testing is just wheel spinning. He needs to pee or get off the pot. Lets get product already!

    • INVENTOR INVENTED

      If he has working product of course. I’m starting to believe he has no perfected LENR reactor that is ready to market and that he’s stringing us along to make money despite the early stages of his R&D. Whats his timeline to sell his product?

  • cashmemorz

    The “failed to find any evidence of a commercially viable energy source” is how the current investors in Cherokee are considering Cherokee’s claims when describing the E-CAT. To help convince the investors that the E-CAT does work, Darden /IH is pulling out the stops by using the court case, and all of the other means mentioned on this site and others, to fill in as many gaps as possible between the investors disbelief and the evidence required to turn the disbelief into conviction that it does work. This is what this circus is about.

  • Steve Swatman

    Lets be really honest here, 5yrs is not a long time to perfect any energy device.

    And throwing negative comments and insinuations around is, well, it is simply a waste of your time and thread space, I mean, in all honesty what is the point of been negative, much better to simply read the comments and new info and decide foryourself if its worthy of your time to investigate further, but there is really very little use in been negative and insinuating fraudulent intent, because calling Mr Rossi’s experiments “a charade’ is really just that.

    I just dont get the mentality of someone who keeps going to the same cinema to watch the same movie just to speak negative about the producer and director
    .

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Simple a customer with an audit from a respectable accounting firm who would verify the cost of power for the production of X amount of product before and after the use of the E-Cat. 50x COP would show up like Christmas tree.

    • roseland67

      Bernie,
      Okay, give me an example of the data you would like to see from this test.
      Possible I’m missing something, but I don’t think so, as I’ve said before, cost just doesn’t do it, but maybe your example will explain it better to me.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Hi Roseland, before I answer any more of you questions how about you answer mine. Do you believe there is such a tech as cold fusion/LENR? I think you work for a multi national corporation in the fossil fuel industry, so I would love your response to my contention that if multi national corporation/ billionaire money interests get control of LENR we will be paying twenty times what we should for LENR tech.

  • Farnsworth

    Rossi needs to face the real world.He should simply publish via Youtube
    his E-Cat plans in detail enough that little guys in their basements
    can make these things.When these little guys do it they will publish their
    results and the whole thing will take off.He needs to realize that this thing is just
    way to big for any one person like himself to contain such an important invention.Finally when the big boys startup there will be millions of companies
    putting out their own versions.The courts will be filled with infringement trials.
    But they will all be a waste of time because the “cat” is out of the bag and cannot be put back in.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Good Luck, the first thing to happen is a senator will introduce a bill in Congress written by multi national corporations/billionaires that testing of LENR is dangerous and must be controlled by those who understand the science. The Bill passes 90-10.

      • Eyedoc

        BK…. that would actually be quite entertaining, with the “cat” out, to see congress try to stop the backyard knowledge……it would also certainly reveal a lot regarding PTB…….let the LENR “epidemic” begin (harder to stop than moonshine & meth)

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Good Luck, the first thing to happen is a senator will introduce a bill in Congress written by multi national corporations/billionaires that testing of LENR is dangerous and must be controlled by those who understand the science. The Bill passes 90-10.

    • Eyedoc

      BK…. that would actually be quite entertaining, with the “cat” out, to see congress try to stop the backyard knowledge……it would also certainly reveal a lot regarding PTB…….let the LENR “epidemic” begin (harder to stop than moonshine & meth)

  • Steve Swatman

    After reading down through this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Apco/academi and all the paid shills have come crawling out of the woodwork to earn their bonus’s.

    It seems that public interest requires as much negative commentary as possible, and all the old arguments to be rehashed to create some form of negative media influence, Mr Rossi must have quite a case!

  • Bob Greenyer

    I think that is what a major player tried – I am verifying if that was achieved.

    • Eyedoc

      Who might that be Bob ?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Install another customer plant exactly like the existing plant in Rossi‘s year long test, with both plants using the exact same materials. The heat supplied to the new plant will be by electric boiler. Have three identical electric meters set at zero. Electric meter 1 for the electric boiler and plant, electric meter 2 for the Rossi E-Catt and plant, and meter 3 for general building utilities. Pick the same amount of product (X) you will to produce from each plant. Start both plants. When X amount of product has been produced by a plant, shut it down, read the meter. When X amount of product is made by the next plant, shut it down, read the meter. Convert the meter readings to dollars of electricity used. Now, just like all of Rossi’s past tests you can nit pick until the cows come home, (secret wires, trick plugs, Rossi sabotaging the meters, hidden batteries etc.) but with the E-Cat’s 50 plus COP the money savings will be very obvious.
    PS This quote from you explaining why we do not have to worry about money interests gaining control of LENR, I would suggest is rather naïve, “maybe $100 in plumbing parts, $100 in controls, $300 in a few grams of specially treated readily available isotopes and some assembly, so anyone, anywhere could build their own reactor for any purpose without state, local, national governments even knowing.” We can also make our own gas, and break the oil monopoly. Good Luck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq37DLVd6g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO0rHl2DXlY

    • roseland67

      Bernie,
      Sound logic,
      Now, if Rossi does this and the results are what you indicate, would you purchase an Ecat based on these results?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Yes, if I had an application. Would you take back all your negative pronouncements about Rossi and his E-Cat?