Daily Caller on US Defense Threat Reduction Agency Cold Fusion Report

Thanks to Mats Lewan for pointing out the following article

The Daily Caller news and political website has an article titled “Feds May Have Made a Huge Breakthrough in Cold Fusion.” (http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/11/feds-may-have-made-a-huge-breakthrough-in-cold-fusion/) The article, by energy and science reporter Andrew Follett is in reference to the report we cited here last week released by the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA).

The report, authored by Pamela Mosier-Boss, Lawrence Forsley and Patrick McDaniel is titled Investigation of Nano-Nuclear Reactions in Condensed Matter. The authors propose that the Pons and Fleischmann ‘cold fusion’ effect is a real low energy nuclear reaction and can be reproduced when a certain kind of Pd/D co-deposition process is used.

Andrew Follett has done some follow-up with the DTRA who told him that they couldn’t immediately confirm or deny the authenticity of the document since some staff members were away from work. Follett also contacted Dr. Jeffrey Eldred, a particle accelerator physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab) in Illinois, who said he suspected that the effect described in the report by Pamela Mosier-Boss, was caused by cosmic ray deuterons interacting with the palladium deuteride.

There is some debate regarding the authenticity of the document. Some observers have noted that the report does not appear on any website published by the DTRA, and therefore could be spurious. The last page of the document, however, does provide a Scientific and Technical Review Information form which appears to show that the document had been through a review process at the DTRA and has been cleared for public release.

  • Buck

    IMO, another small step on the path for the public and governmental acceptance of something we hold to be a proven fact.

    It leads me to wonder who and what will come forward on 9/22 when the DOD is expected to layout their understanding of LENR to Congress.

    • Those are old figures. As I mentioned when I first posted the link to The Daily Caller, the website has 16.5 million unique visitors per month (which was why I found the Daily Caller story interesting, even if the piece was poorly investigated and a bit confused):

      The Daily Caller readership has grown to more than 16.5 million unique visitors per month and draws more than 59 million monthly page views.

      http://dailycaller.com/about-us/

  • Buck

    IMO, another small step on the path for the public and governmental acceptance of something we hold to be a proven fact.

    It leads me to wonder who and what will come forward on 9/22 when the DOD is expected to layout their understanding of LENR to Congress.

    EDIT: Important info about The Daily Caller From Wikipedia (my emphasis added)

    The Daily Caller is a politically conservative[2][3] American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative[4][5] political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY. The site’s sections includes politics, business, world news, entertainment, sports, education, technology, outdoors, and energy.

    The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010. In late 2012, The New York Times reported that the site had quadrupled its page view and total audience and had become profitable without ever buying an advertisement for itself.[6]

    The Daily Caller was founded by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel. After raising $3 million in funding from conservative businessman Foster Friess, the website was launched on January 11, 2010. The organization started with a reporting staff of 21 in its Washington office.

    By 2013, the site was receiving over 35 MILLION VIEWS A MONTH according to Quantcast, surpassing rival sites such as The Washington Times, Politico, and Forbes.[8] The site has an active community, with over 200,000 comments made each month.

    Notable figures have commented on The Daily Caller. KARL ROVE said that, “The Daily Caller is necessary reading for anyone who wants to be up to speed with what’s going on with politics in America.” LARRY KUDLOW referred to the site as, “one of my faves.”[8]

    LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Caller

    • Those are old figures. As I mentioned when I first posted the link to The Daily Caller, the website has 16.5 million unique visitors per month (which was why I found the Daily Caller story interesting, even if the piece was poorly investigated and a bit confused):

      The Daily Caller readership has grown to more than 16.5 million unique visitors per month and draws more than 59 million monthly page views.

      http://dailycaller.com/about-us/

  • JedRothwell

    “There is some debate regarding the authenticity of the document.”

    You people are nuts. Ask the authors whether the document is authentic!

    As long last, have some common sense.

    • Ophelia Rump

      They did ask and were told that people are “away”.

      Did you look at how many names are on the doc, are they all away, do they not recognize their own documents? Do they not keep records of their own reports?

      From the look of that the govt has been sitting on Fleischmann Ponns validity from the beginning. That document is an embarrassment.

      Someone needs to submit an FOIA request for an official copy.

      • Frank Acland

        From the DC article:

        ‘DTRA staff would not confirm or deny the authenticity of the report to The Daily Caller News Foundation, saying, “a couple of the individuals involved in the process are off station/ on vacation leave.”’

        On the last page of the document there are signatures of seven people who have given it some kind of clearance. The last date was Jun 7 2016 with the stamp of “cleared for public release”

      • SG

        FOIA is definitely the way to go. The executive branch tends to cringe with FOIA requests, but such requests do have teeth. The legislative branch has always supported the FOIA concept, and for good reasons.

        • Omega Z

          FOIA?, There is no, nor has there ever been any such document that you request. Now prove otherwise.

          Also, ANY documents kept at the Cheyenne Mountain Complex is exempt from FOIA. I believe Groom lake is also exempt as are any documents held by private contractors. Climate controlled storage facility contracting is huge in the U.S. and Growing.

          Push hard enough, they may create fake documents Letterhead included with 98% of the pages blacked out under National Security claims. They may also do that with factual documents as well.

          FOIA’s are basically for the naive and should they provide real info, they likely intended to release it soon anyway.

          • Steve Swatman

            Sounds like you really don’t want anyone to make an FOIA request sir.

          • MorganMck

            Yesiree

          • Omega Z

            “Sounds like you really don’t want anyone to make an FOIA request”

            Not at all.
            Just pointing out the reality of such requests. FOIA was primarily created to appease the naive. You can’t force them to give info if they really want to withhold it.

            As Eyedoc points out. You need to depend on leakers. But then you wonder what is their agenda and are they legit. And they can easily be labeled conspiracists.

          • Steve Swatman

            “But then you wonder what is their agenda and are they legit. And they can easily be labeled conspiracists.” (and or shills and trolls)

            This can and should be one’s first thought for every comment/commentor on the internet and especially on a subject such as LENR and Dr Rossi. 😉

          • Frechette

            You forgot to mention Area 51.

          • Omega Z

            Groom lake i.e redirects on wiki to Area 51.
            Where discussions of Groom lake are acceptable, Area 51 does not exist. LOL

          • Observer

            This report is 4 years old. It represents the last work done on LENR at SPAWAR.

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/19/jed-rothwell-reports-cold-fusion-research-shut-down-at-the-us-navys-spawar-program/

          • And work circa 1850 by James Clerk Maxwell is still cited today … the point being, it is basic, replicable research that others may build on. This is very important in science and engineering.

          • Eyedoc

            Sad but true ?? so inside ‘leakers’ are the only hope for truth anymore ??

    • Ged

      Do you even bother to read, or are you too excited to give juvenile insults to the community to actually pay attention?

    • Buck

      The article has been updated to answer your question:

      “DTRA has confirmed the documents are authentic.”

      • bachcole

        The Daily Caller confirms it. Is there any way that we can confirm it also?

        • Buck

          Roger,

          I am inclined to accept The Daily Caller’s (TDC) and DTRA’s response at face value. If one takes note of who produces and reads TDC, Dick Cheney ex-CEO of Halliburton, I can only imagine TDC checking and double checking their facts.

        • Brent Buckner

          Lawrence Forsley (one of the authors) uploaded it to academia.edu:
          (login required https://www.academia.edu/28231789/INVESTIGATION_OF_NANO-NUCLEAR_REACTIONS_IN_CONDENSED_MATTER_FINAL_REPORT )

        • Ged

          “It is a little unclear to me which idiots are speculating that the document might not be real. It might be the author of the article at the Daily Caller. Judging by the inane comments here, it might be some of the House Idiots here. Either way, this is a particularly inane conspiracy theory.”

          It sounds like you have some issues with reading. You could read the original thread where two people with access to DTRA could not find the document within those releases when it first was posted. Then the Daily Caller could not get a confirmation or denial when the journalists tried to contact the authors. No one here seriously doubted the document, but no logical mind could ignore the caveat of ambiguity from DTRA, and now it is confirmed.

          But instead of reading or checking the facts, or even reading the article here completely, you create a false reality in your head and go off insulting everyone–and then admit you have no idea if anyone here actually said the things you are insulting or doubted the article or not. You simply wanted to insult people. So very unprofessional.

          Like Gerald, your objection made so little sense, and was so divorced from reality, it seemed you were trying to claim the document was false. That is how completely absurd your assumptions and insults here have been.

          • JedRothwell

            To summarize: the person at the Daily Caller plus some of you people think that I upload fake documents. Got it.

            And you wonder why I am pissed off. Uh, huh.

          • Ged

            That is some absurd ego. Narcissistic even? No one ever said anything about you! Your name never came up, and no one cares–you are beneath the Daily Caller’s notice, and they simply reported what they got from the source, that is DTRA. But coming in and insulting the community when you know nothing because you can’t bother to check facts, but rather make believe some scenario to insult, is pathetic behavior.

            Tell me, who were the two posters who could not find the document in the DTRA archive? Anyone in Disqus can post, after all, so who are they and did they say anything about you? Did they claim -you- uploaded fake documents as you feign insult over? Let’s see if your faux indignation has any basis in reality :).

        • William D. Fleming

          I am confused. Are you the person who provided the report to the Daily Caller?

        • Buck

          Interesting piece from Reuters today which adds to the national security context of the upcoming 9/22 report by the DoD to Congress regarding LENR. Here is the lead paragraph that is further fleshed out in the reportage.

          “The effects of climate change endanger U.S. military operations and
          could increase the danger of international conflict, according to three
          new documents endorsed by retired top U.S. military officers and former
          national security officials.”

          http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/climate-change-significant-and-direct-threat-to-us-military-reports/ar-BBw84Cj?li=BBnb7Kz

  • JedRothwell

    “There is some debate regarding the authenticity of the document.”

    You people are nuts. Ask the authors whether the document is authentic!

    As long last, have some common sense.

    • Ophelia Rump

      They did ask and were told that people are “away”.

      Did you look at how many names are on the doc, are they all away, do they not recognize their own documents? Do they not keep records of their own reports?

      From the look of that the govt has been sitting on Fleischmann Ponns validity from the beginning. That document is an embarrassment.

      Someone needs to submit an FOIA request for an official copy.

      • Frank Acland

        From the DC article:

        ‘DTRA staff would not confirm or deny the authenticity of the report to The Daily Caller News Foundation, saying, “a couple of the individuals involved in the process are off station/ on vacation leave.”’

        On the last page of the document there are signatures of seven people who have given it some kind of clearance. The last date was Jun 7 2016 with the stamp of “cleared for public release”

      • SG

        FOIA is definitely the way to go. The executive branch tends to cringe with FOIA requests, but such requests do have teeth. The legislative and judicial branches have always supported the FOIA concept, and for good reasons.

        • Omega Z

          FOIA?, There is no, nor has there ever been any such document that you request. Now prove otherwise.

          Also, ANY documents kept at the Cheyenne Mountain Complex is exempt from FOIA. I believe Groom lake is also exempt as are any documents held by private contractors. Climate controlled storage facility contracting is huge in the U.S. and Growing.

          Push hard enough, they may create fake documents Letterhead included with 98% of the pages blacked out under National Security claims. They may also do that with factual documents as well.

          FOIA’s are basically for the naive and should they provide real info, they likely intended to release it soon anyway.

          • Steve Swatman

            Sounds like you really don’t want anyone to make an FOIA request sir.

          • Omega Z

            “Sounds like you really don’t want anyone to make an FOIA request”

            Not at all.
            Just pointing out the reality of such requests. FOIA was primarily created to appease the naive. You can’t force them to give info if they really want to withhold it.

            As Eyedoc points out. You need to depend on leakers. But then you wonder what is their agenda and are they legit. And they can easily be labeled conspiracists.

          • Steve Swatman

            “But then you wonder what is their agenda and are they legit. And they can easily be labeled conspiracists.” (and or shills and trolls)

            This can and should be one’s first thought for every comment/commentor on the internet and especially on a subject such as LENR and Dr Rossi. 😉

          • Frechette

            You forgot to mention Area 51.

          • Omega Z

            Groom lake i.e redirects on wiki to Area 51.
            Where discussions of Groom lake are acceptable, Area 51 does not exist. LOL

          • Eyedoc

            Sad but true ?? so inside ‘leakers’ are the only hope for truth anymore ??

    • bachcole

      Everything needs to be confirmed.

    • Tim Reese

      So do you believe in LENR or not?

      • MorganMck

        This is really getting sad. He is becoming Steven Krivit before our very eyes. And all because of his own pride.

        • bachcole

          “He” meaning JedRothwell.

          • MorganMck

            Yesiree

    • Ged

      Do you even bother to read, or are you too excited to throw juvenile insults at the community to actually pay attention?

      • bachcole

        Seemed like to me, but I wasn’t sure enough to say anything.

    • Buck

      The article has been updated to answer your question:

      “DTRA has confirmed the documents are authentic.”

      • bachcole

        The Daily Caller confirms it. Is there any way that we can confirm it also?

        • Buck

          Roger,

          I am inclined to accept The Daily Caller’s (TDC) and DTRA’s response at face value. If one takes note of who produces and reads TDC, associates of Dick Cheney ex-CEO of Halliburton, I can only imagine TDC checking and double checking their facts. And, the people at DTRA are smart enough to know that the political danger to them is high to very high if their facts and conclusions are not solid.

          • bachcole

            Thank you for that. Since I never heard of it, I thought maybe is was just another upstart rag.

        • Brent Buckner

          Lawrence Forsley (one of the authors) uploaded it to academia.edu:
          (login required https://www.academia.edu/28231789/INVESTIGATION_OF_NANO-NUCLEAR_REACTIONS_IN_CONDENSED_MATTER_FINAL_REPORT )

      • JedRothwell

        Yeah, okay. As a practical matter, where else do you suppose it might have come from?

        I uploaded it, as I expect you realize. Do you think I made it up? Do you think I wrote the entire text, unbeknownst to the authors, and then uploaded it? I am not capable of doing that. Even if I were, I suppose Pam Boss would be kinda upset with me. So would Uncle Sam.

        As I said, at long last, have some common sense. Think!

        1. Documents like this are not easily faked.

        2. They do not come of nowhere.

        3. You can easily contact the authors.

        4. There are many similar documents by these same authors making the same claims, at LENR-CANR.org and elsewhere.

        It is a little unclear to me which idiots are speculating that the document might not be real. It might be the author of the article at the Daily Caller. Judging by the inane comments here, it might be some of the House Idiots here. Either way, this is a particularly inane conspiracy theory.

        • Gerald

          I have to apologise, reading your previous comment above I was thinking you said the document was false, I was a nut to believe it. Why so much hard words and curse? Sane people see the effects are real, if Rossi is right or not will not put back Cold fusion to the stone age. Maybe see us as a son who you lose controle of, the son returns or gets losed or the his dad must dig deep and say your were right son. The best thing just let it happen and don’t get angry.

        • Ged

          “It is a little unclear to me which idiots are speculating that the document might not be real. It might be the author of the article at the Daily Caller. Judging by the inane comments here, it might be some of the House Idiots here. Either way, this is a particularly inane conspiracy theory.”

          It sounds like you have some issues with reading. You could read the original thread where two people with access to DTRA could not find the document within those releases when it first was posted. Then the Daily Caller could not get a confirmation or denial when the journalists tried to contact the authors. No one here seriously doubted the document (though people have every right to seek and demand confirmation), but no logical mind could ignore the caveat of ambiguity from DTRA, and now it is confirmed.

          But instead of reading or checking the facts, or even reading the article here completely, you create a false reality in your head and go off insulting everyone–and then admit you have no idea if anyone here actually said the things you are insulting or doubted the article or not. You simply wanted to insult people. So very unprofessional.

          Like Gerald, your objection (which was addressed in the article if you bothered reading!) made so little sense to me, and was so divorced from reality, it seemed you were trying to claim the document was false. That is how completely absurd your assumptions of and insults towards what people have been saying here have been. I challenge you to try to support your ad hominins, but I know you can’t.

          • JedRothwell

            To summarize: the person at the Daily Caller plus some of you people think that I upload fake documents. Got it.

            And you wonder why I am pissed off. Uh, huh.

          • Ged

            That is some absurd ego. Narcissistic even? No one ever said anything about you! Your name never came up, and no one cares–you are (personally) beneath the Daily Caller’s notice, and they simply reported what they got from the source, that is DTRA. But coming in and insulting the community when you know nothing because you can’t bother to check facts, but rather make believe some scenario to insult, is pathetic behavior.

            Tell me, who were the two posters who could not find the document in the DTRA archive? Anyone in Disqus can post, after all, so who are they and did they say anything about you? Did they claim -you- uploaded fake documents as you feign insult over? Let’s see if your faux indignation has any basis in reality :).

          • JedRothwell

            Okay, so if you ran a library and uploaded a few thousand documents and someone accused you of committing fraud and uploading fake documents . . . it wouldn’t bother you. That would be narcissistic.

            So what is it you do for a living? Programming? Like hell: you are a hacker who steals code. Are you a doctor maybe? Sure, but you make a living writing fake scripts for prescription drugs. Hey, if you deny you are a criminal and a fraud . . . that makes you a narcissist.

            Bugger off.

          • bachcole

            Look, Ged, the main reason that JedRothwell has managed to be irritating lately is that we used to respect that name. But we are over that now. I have disciplined myself to simply not read comments from people are do not believe in, and JedRothwell is not credible with me any more.

        • bachcole

          I would be delighted to compare your IQ with mine any time that you like. Your use of the word “idiot” is merely a vehicle for delivering your resentment to people who do not agree with you. If it bothers you that so many of us do not agree with you, then why come here and burden yourself and us with your resentment? Life is so much better without resentment. To me, the name “Jed Rothwell” used to have credibility, but your malicious attitude has caused me to no longer respect you.

          • psi2u2

            Really. Jed, where do you get off with “Judging by the inane comments here, it might be some of the House Idiots here”?

            The document was vetted thoroughly here and found to be authentic. Get over yourself.

        • William D. Fleming

          I am confused. Are you the person who provided the report to the Daily Caller?

          • JedRothwell

            No, Pam Boss sent me the paper and I uploaded it to LENR-CANR.org. I am the librarian.

        • Warthog

          The initiator is an LENR skeptic “TractorEngineer” posting comments on the original “DailyCaller” article.

  • bachcole

    Please, people, get over to the website and do some constructive commenting.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    “Follett also contacted Dr. Jeffrey Eldred, a particle accelerator physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab) in Illinois, who said he suspected that the effect described in the report by Pamela Mosier-Boss, was caused by cosmic ray deuterons interacting
    with the palladium deuteride.”

    I’m wondering what’s that supposed to mean, is he saying that DD fusion occurs at low rate, caused by cosmic ray deuterons, whenever there is bulk of deuterium (like in PdD). To me, reference to cosmic ray deuterons looks a bit odd. Such things exist because cosmic rays contain all possible nuclei, but they should be rare, much rarer than e.g. cosmic ray protons.

    • It seems rather inevitable that a number of agendas will play into this phase of LENR development, i.e., increasing public awareness. Many of these agendas will of course be inimical to the free and open discussion of cold fusion, in one way or another.

      It’s difficult to ‘unpack’ this one brief comment from a representative of establishment physics, but it seems to me that this may be an attempt to belittle Mosier-Boss and her associates by using the word ‘effect’ to portray their work as an investigation of a weak natural phenomenon, rather than as the discovery of a new, controllable nuclear reaction process with enormous potential.

      I doubt that Eldred’s ‘theory’ is expected to stand up to close scientific scrutiny, but rather is intended to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of casual readers of this story. ‘Move along – nothing to see here’.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, as GreenWin is absent and I hope all is well with him, I will just say that the guys running the SIM are still having a great laugh at the entangled webs we weave down here.
        I am sure that Clinton or Trump will soon get everything all sorted out for everybody.

  • malkom700

    We see that the representatives of the scientific world do not want to comment on issues that are important to human survival as LENR and GW. I suggest by the government to force their expression, then after three years to evaluate who was right and decide on consequences regarding their careers. I know human rights, I apologize.

  • malkom700

    We see that the representatives of the scientific world do not want to comment on issues that are important to human survival as LENR and GW. I suggest by the government to force their expression, then after three years to evaluate who was right and decide on consequences regarding their careers. I know human rights, I apologize.

  • MorganMck

    This is really getting sad. He is becoming Steven Krivit before our very eyes. And all because of his own pride.

  • Gerald

    I have to apologise, reading your previous comment above I was thinking you said the document was false, I was a nut to believe it. Why so much hard words and curse? Sane people see the effects are real, if Rossi is right or not will not put back Cold fusion to the stone age. Maybe see us as a son who you lose controle of, the son returns or gets losed or the his dad must dig deep and say your were right son. The best thing just let it happen and don’t get angry.

  • Observer

    This report is 4 years old. It represents the last work done on LENR at SPAWAR.

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/19/jed-rothwell-reports-cold-fusion-research-shut-down-at-the-us-navys-spawar-program/

    • And work circa 1850 by James Clerk Maxwell is still cited today … the point being, it is basic, replicable research that others may build on. This is very important in science and engineering.

  • Buck

    Interesting piece from Reuters today which adds to the national security context of the upcoming 9/22 report by the DoD to Congress regarding LENR. Here is the lead paragraph that is further fleshed out in the reportage.

    “The effects of climate change endanger U.S. military operations and
    could increase the danger of international conflict, according to three
    new documents endorsed by retired top U.S. military officers and former
    national security officials.”

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/climate-change-significant-and-direct-threat-to-us-military-reports/ar-BBw84Cj?li=BBnb7Kz

  • Warthog

    The initiator is an LENR skeptic “TractorEngineer” posting comments on the original “DailyCaller” article.